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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:01:19,513 --> 00:01:20,874 Welcome to ACT UP! 2 00:01:21,049 --> 00:01:23,268 We are the AIDS coalition to unleash power. 3 00:01:24,318 --> 00:01:27,630 A diverse non-partisan group of individuals united in anger 4 00:01:27,655 --> 00:01:31,492 and committed to direct action to... ...end the AIDS crisis! 5 00:01:32,393 --> 00:01:34,434 Less than 12 hours from now, 6 00:01:35,328 --> 00:01:38,912 we are going to be taking over city hall! 7 00:01:41,669 --> 00:01:43,350 ACT UP, fight back, fight AIDS! 8 00:01:43,471 --> 00:01:44,171 Yes? 9 00:01:44,706 --> 00:01:47,150 Mr. mayor, in campaigning for the lesbian and gay vote in an 10 00:01:47,175 --> 00:01:49,786 election year, a bit of historical context is necessary 11 00:01:49,811 --> 00:01:51,968 in dealing with the AIDS crisis in New York City. 12 00:01:52,013 --> 00:01:55,892 It wasn't until 1983 that you met with people to deal with the AIDS crisis. 13 00:01:55,917 --> 00:01:58,461 - How do you respond to these criticisms? - That is a falsehood. 14 00:01:58,486 --> 00:02:01,563 Please, anybody who's thinking about being arrested, 15 00:02:01,588 --> 00:02:04,833 fill out a support sheet, make sure your support person knows 16 00:02:04,858 --> 00:02:07,516 who you are and what group you're in... yeah? 17 00:02:08,496 --> 00:02:12,368 If we end up in the tombs, is there like, a queer tank 18 00:02:12,532 --> 00:02:16,368 there and would you recommend that we ask to be there? 19 00:02:16,537 --> 00:02:19,382 There is a homo-tank and I've been there and it's 20 00:02:19,407 --> 00:02:21,796 better than the straight tank, let me tell you. 21 00:02:21,908 --> 00:02:22,860 Who else? Yes? 22 00:02:23,044 --> 00:02:25,988 In the past, you've described act up as fascist, yet in the press 23 00:02:26,013 --> 00:02:28,989 release, you called them "concerned citizens" and I was 24 00:02:29,050 --> 00:02:30,425 wondering what changed your mind? 25 00:02:30,450 --> 00:02:32,898 Well, I don't think you can't use both. 26 00:02:33,387 --> 00:02:37,093 Fascists can be concerned citizens and I don't believe 27 00:02:39,926 --> 00:02:43,198 they are fascists, I think they have used a fascist tactic. 28 00:02:43,464 --> 00:02:47,008 Let us celebrate together tonight, the end of the last day 29 00:02:48,169 --> 00:02:51,408 on which Ed Koch can tell himself that the communities 30 00:02:51,472 --> 00:02:54,946 which are being decimated by this epidemic are so weak and 31 00:02:55,309 --> 00:02:59,902 so divided among themselves, that he can keep serving us this kind of bullshit. 32 00:03:00,413 --> 00:03:03,276 Tomorrow morning he will begin to learn the truth! 33 00:03:05,252 --> 00:03:08,930 ACT UP, stand tall, tomorrow morning at city hall! 34 00:03:08,955 --> 00:03:10,248 ACT UP, stand tall, 35 00:03:11,258 --> 00:03:13,202 tomorrow morning at city hall! 36 00:03:13,227 --> 00:03:14,520 ACT UP, stand tall, 37 00:03:15,462 --> 00:03:17,373 tomorrow morning at city hall! 38 00:03:17,398 --> 00:03:18,827 ACT UP, stand tall... 39 00:03:52,133 --> 00:03:56,405 We're talking to Jim Eigo from the treatment issues committee of ACT UP. 40 00:03:56,904 --> 00:03:58,874 Jim, what specific treatment issues are being 41 00:03:58,900 --> 00:04:00,716 brought into this demonstration this week? 42 00:04:00,741 --> 00:04:03,878 The municipal hospitals are totally falling apart. 43 00:04:04,145 --> 00:04:06,454 More than half of the people that get diagnosed with AIDS 44 00:04:06,479 --> 00:04:10,253 today get diagnosed in the emergency rooms of our city. 45 00:04:10,450 --> 00:04:12,530 You're going to find yourself waiting four days in an 46 00:04:12,552 --> 00:04:14,687 emergency room before you get a bed. 47 00:04:16,156 --> 00:04:17,925 Pretty scared, but being 48 00:04:18,925 --> 00:04:21,571 HIV-positive, I don't have much choice in the matter. 49 00:04:21,596 --> 00:04:25,021 I just love all these people, and I think what we're doing is 50 00:04:25,047 --> 00:04:28,778 really right and I mean, listen to this and look at all the people. 51 00:04:28,803 --> 00:04:31,980 It's just really wonderful and it's worth putting yourself on the line for. 52 00:04:32,005 --> 00:04:33,381 ...there is no accurate diagnosis. 53 00:04:33,406 --> 00:04:37,085 There are incentives in the city hospitals not to diagnose people 54 00:04:37,245 --> 00:04:40,204 with AIDS and therefore, people don't get treated. 55 00:04:40,815 --> 00:04:44,121 We are angry at the way this city has handled this crisis 56 00:04:44,218 --> 00:04:49,439 and we demand that ed Koch exert leadership and declare a state of emergency. 57 00:04:51,625 --> 00:04:54,936 Go in the street now or wait, those are the options. 58 00:04:54,961 --> 00:04:56,730 - One, he says go. - Go now. 59 00:04:57,031 --> 00:04:58,255 Says now, three. 60 00:04:59,399 --> 00:05:00,099 Tom? 61 00:05:00,500 --> 00:05:01,477 Go now, Tom says. 62 00:05:01,502 --> 00:05:03,179 We're standing here with Larry Kramer. 63 00:05:03,204 --> 00:05:05,528 What is ACT UP trying to say today to Ed Koch? 64 00:05:05,605 --> 00:05:08,150 We're sending a message to public officials, to closeted 65 00:05:08,175 --> 00:05:11,987 public officials, that we won't be shat on anymore and obviously 66 00:05:12,113 --> 00:05:13,355 all the AIDS issues. 67 00:05:13,380 --> 00:05:15,140 I would love to see like, more cameras or 68 00:05:15,166 --> 00:05:17,025 something, you know, for our own protection. 69 00:05:17,050 --> 00:05:18,534 Did everyone hear his concern? 70 00:05:18,653 --> 00:05:21,397 People die every day, friends get sick every day. 71 00:05:21,422 --> 00:05:23,366 It's like being in the trenches. 72 00:05:23,391 --> 00:05:26,399 There's such anger in the community and it is coalescing 73 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,078 in a way that has never been done before. 74 00:05:29,497 --> 00:05:32,645 Okay, which way do we face girlfriends, this way or that way? 75 00:05:40,374 --> 00:05:42,739 Healthcare is a right, healthcare is a right! 76 00:05:42,810 --> 00:05:45,975 Healthcare is a right, healthcare is a right! 77 00:05:46,346 --> 00:05:49,578 Healthcare is a right, healthcare is a right! 78 00:05:49,951 --> 00:05:50,616 Pump up the budget! 79 00:05:50,651 --> 00:05:53,415 Healthcare is a right, healthcare is a right! 80 00:05:53,487 --> 00:05:56,232 You are currently in violation of law by obstructing 81 00:05:56,257 --> 00:05:58,230 vehicular pedestrian traffic. 82 00:05:58,492 --> 00:06:01,463 You have the option of leaving at this time, otherwise... 83 00:06:05,598 --> 00:06:07,000 ACT UP! 84 00:06:07,500 --> 00:06:08,244 Fight back! 85 00:06:08,269 --> 00:06:09,017 Fight AIDS! 86 00:06:41,002 --> 00:06:43,136 ACT UP! 87 00:06:55,716 --> 00:06:57,417 Fight back, fight AIDS! 88 00:07:15,870 --> 00:07:18,013 I guess I'm feeling pretty helpless at the moment. 89 00:07:18,038 --> 00:07:21,249 I think like, the biggest question that I'm facing 90 00:07:21,274 --> 00:07:23,383 now is how to remain hopeful in 91 00:07:25,545 --> 00:07:27,450 the face of increasing loss. 92 00:07:29,617 --> 00:07:32,046 I don't know, maybe it sounds really corny but I... 93 00:07:32,252 --> 00:07:34,361 As difficult as the time is for 94 00:07:38,158 --> 00:07:39,791 us... I like being alive. 95 00:07:42,829 --> 00:07:47,913 And I love my friends and I love my family. 96 00:07:48,134 --> 00:07:49,879 I love the people around me. 97 00:07:49,904 --> 00:07:51,547 I'm going to die from this. 98 00:07:51,572 --> 00:07:54,509 This isn't going to be cured for years and years and years. 99 00:07:57,444 --> 00:07:58,220 Doctor's office. 100 00:07:58,245 --> 00:07:59,878 Hi, it's Peter Staley. 101 00:08:00,214 --> 00:08:02,187 ...it's like living in a war, 102 00:08:02,516 --> 00:08:05,960 all around me, friends are dropping dead and you're scared 103 00:08:07,088 --> 00:08:09,002 for your own life, all at the same time. 104 00:08:11,925 --> 00:08:15,537 I was diagnosed with AIDS-related complex while I was 105 00:08:15,562 --> 00:08:17,847 working as a bond trader on wall street. 106 00:08:19,666 --> 00:08:20,959 I had night sweats. 107 00:08:21,302 --> 00:08:25,309 I began to get dry, patchy, scaly, itchy skin on my face. 108 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:28,117 And I would get sick constantly. 109 00:08:28,142 --> 00:08:30,319 Colds would lay me up for weeks. 110 00:08:32,279 --> 00:08:36,388 I started to look around in desperation for ways that I 111 00:08:38,384 --> 00:08:40,357 could find treatments to help 112 00:08:43,691 --> 00:08:47,469 save my life... um... And there was nothing coming out 113 00:08:48,428 --> 00:08:51,456 of our government's efforts, I quickly realized. 114 00:08:57,705 --> 00:09:01,519 Everything I read said I had about two years to live, at most. 115 00:09:02,476 --> 00:09:03,809 - What do we want? - A cure! 116 00:09:04,110 --> 00:09:05,879 - When do we want it? - Now! 117 00:09:06,514 --> 00:09:07,959 - What do we want? - A cure! 118 00:09:08,615 --> 00:09:10,116 - When do we want it? - Now! 119 00:09:10,783 --> 00:09:12,197 - What do we want? - A cure! 120 00:09:12,653 --> 00:09:14,120 - When do we want it? - Now! 121 00:09:14,654 --> 00:09:19,288 I was on my way to work and I got handed a flyer about act up and AIDS. 122 00:09:20,528 --> 00:09:22,637 My mentor says, "if you ask me, 123 00:09:22,897 --> 00:09:25,878 I think they all deserve to die because they took it up the butt." 124 00:09:26,833 --> 00:09:31,358 I was deeply closeted and I had to just stew about it for the rest of the day. 125 00:09:34,607 --> 00:09:36,828 I got myself to the very next ACT UP meeting. 126 00:09:37,610 --> 00:09:40,695 They could just tap into that immediate anger and get stuff done. 127 00:09:47,154 --> 00:09:49,991 ...we will not leave until an administrator meets with us 128 00:09:50,090 --> 00:09:53,067 and tells us that St. Vincent's is willing to make a public 129 00:09:53,092 --> 00:09:56,785 statement condemning gay and lesbian violence. 130 00:10:03,504 --> 00:10:04,797 All those in favor? 131 00:10:07,341 --> 00:10:08,565 All those opposed? 132 00:10:12,812 --> 00:10:13,656 They're coming! 133 00:10:13,681 --> 00:10:15,157 You see them right there. 134 00:10:15,182 --> 00:10:16,358 You've heard about ACT UP. 135 00:10:16,383 --> 00:10:17,659 You've seen our flyers. 136 00:10:17,684 --> 00:10:19,228 The kiss-in happens tonight. 137 00:10:19,253 --> 00:10:20,153 ACT UP! 138 00:10:20,687 --> 00:10:21,435 Fight back! 139 00:10:21,621 --> 00:10:22,513 Make love! 140 00:10:22,548 --> 00:10:23,406 ACT UP! 141 00:10:23,490 --> 00:10:24,238 Whoo, whoo! 142 00:10:27,494 --> 00:10:28,736 I'll deal with the cameras. 143 00:10:28,761 --> 00:10:30,977 Are you the security guard that was beating people up? 144 00:10:40,341 --> 00:10:42,850 Members of the mainstream media were thrown out, as we 145 00:10:42,875 --> 00:10:45,052 were earlier on, but Steve Zabel 146 00:10:45,446 --> 00:10:48,504 and I came back in and we're bringing you this exclusive footage. 147 00:10:48,615 --> 00:10:49,536 Don't destroy property! 148 00:10:49,549 --> 00:10:50,725 You're destroying property. 149 00:10:50,750 --> 00:10:53,295 Well, actually you damaged some human property last week. 150 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:54,028 You damaged people. 151 00:10:54,053 --> 00:10:56,197 You will not beat up on faggots and you will not beat up 152 00:10:56,222 --> 00:10:59,744 on lesbians in hospitals in our own community. 153 00:11:00,527 --> 00:11:02,937 Two gay women were beaten up and when her lover came to 154 00:11:02,962 --> 00:11:04,340 respond... you know the story. 155 00:11:04,365 --> 00:11:06,841 And another story was when two gay guys came in, one was sick 156 00:11:06,866 --> 00:11:09,744 with AIDS, the security guard told him to get the fuck out of 157 00:11:09,769 --> 00:11:11,714 here and called him "faggot." 158 00:11:11,739 --> 00:11:14,215 I think if you're gonna work, especially in Greenwich village, 159 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,160 you should have some sensitivity training, 'cause we're not gonna have it. 160 00:11:17,543 --> 00:11:20,060 I'm willing to meet with three people if the rest of you leave. 161 00:11:21,081 --> 00:11:23,201 Okay, one at a time, one at a time. 162 00:11:23,350 --> 00:11:24,393 It's unclear how to play it. 163 00:11:24,418 --> 00:11:26,729 My own instinct would be to say, "we'll be glad to meet with you, 164 00:11:26,754 --> 00:11:29,105 and when the meeting's over, we'll leave." 165 00:11:29,155 --> 00:11:31,172 Not to leave before the meeting takes place. 166 00:11:31,591 --> 00:11:32,535 Gregg. 167 00:11:32,625 --> 00:11:34,936 We've shown the kind of power we can have by immediate action, 168 00:11:34,961 --> 00:11:37,208 by sticking together, by reaching a consensus together. 169 00:11:37,298 --> 00:11:39,541 We should take this in steps and we should be cool-headed. 170 00:11:39,566 --> 00:11:41,315 I'm going to take a straw poll, Okay? 171 00:11:41,802 --> 00:11:44,911 ...and we agreed to leave the waiting room while he met with 172 00:11:45,405 --> 00:11:46,749 three of our representatives: 173 00:11:46,774 --> 00:11:50,210 Gregg, Jerry and Neil, in that public space right there. 174 00:11:50,311 --> 00:11:54,235 And then we would stick around out here and wait to see what the outcome was. 175 00:11:55,716 --> 00:11:59,097 So I said, "enough of this, this job is gonna kill me." 176 00:11:59,253 --> 00:12:01,158 So, I went on disability and 177 00:12:03,590 --> 00:12:06,177 decided to become a full-time AIDS activist. 178 00:12:27,447 --> 00:12:30,326 In the beginning, what drugs did we have? 179 00:12:30,351 --> 00:12:31,371 We had nothing. 180 00:12:32,119 --> 00:12:34,024 And the pneumonia could come 181 00:12:34,620 --> 00:12:38,256 on like that, and be gone and that person is dead. 182 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:44,501 The skin lesions, the Kaposi's sarcoma was... people would be 183 00:12:45,765 --> 00:12:47,738 coming in with a purple spot. 184 00:12:48,402 --> 00:12:51,080 Everybody was coming in with, "what is this spot? 185 00:12:51,105 --> 00:12:52,398 What is that spot?" 186 00:12:52,740 --> 00:12:55,451 You'd have some guys come in with k.S. On their face and 187 00:12:55,476 --> 00:12:58,313 they'd be putting makeup on their face and they'd be... 188 00:12:59,546 --> 00:13:01,723 It was... and they were lucky if 189 00:13:03,384 --> 00:13:04,792 it just stayed in the skin. 190 00:13:04,817 --> 00:13:06,961 If it didn't go into their lungs, and then if it went into 191 00:13:06,986 --> 00:13:10,455 their lungs, chemo didn't work and then they were gone. 192 00:13:10,957 --> 00:13:14,563 You were grasping at straws for everything because these are 193 00:13:14,861 --> 00:13:16,358 young, vibrant people. 194 00:13:18,599 --> 00:13:20,620 And all of a sudden they're being snatched. 195 00:13:22,602 --> 00:13:24,856 I think everything has to be put in perspective. 196 00:14:01,942 --> 00:14:02,742 Larry? 197 00:14:13,187 --> 00:14:14,820 Iris long is lifesaving. 198 00:14:17,423 --> 00:14:20,575 If you can't hear in the back and you want to, just shout it out, please. 199 00:14:25,131 --> 00:14:29,646 This is a report from the American society of microbiology, 200 00:14:29,647 --> 00:14:32,807 a conference I went to at the end of may. 201 00:14:33,573 --> 00:14:34,373 Quiet! 202 00:14:35,775 --> 00:14:39,182 There were many infections talked about, including AIDS 203 00:14:39,279 --> 00:14:41,320 at this conference, and it was 204 00:14:41,914 --> 00:14:46,289 overwhelming to know how many pathogens, bacteria, fungus, 205 00:14:48,522 --> 00:14:50,631 protozoas and viruses there are 206 00:14:51,792 --> 00:14:53,833 out there that can really make 207 00:14:56,395 --> 00:14:57,483 you very sick... 208 00:15:00,234 --> 00:15:04,207 One day this woman just showed up, this housewife who had been a scientist and 209 00:15:04,705 --> 00:15:08,419 still was, and said, "you guys don't know diddly about what this is. 210 00:15:09,076 --> 00:15:13,186 And anybody who wants to learn about the system, how it works, 211 00:15:14,214 --> 00:15:17,792 how grants are made, how the science works, how everything 212 00:15:17,817 --> 00:15:21,529 works, how the N.I.H. Works, how the F.D.A. Works, how you 213 00:15:21,554 --> 00:15:26,301 can deal with all this enormous amount of material, I'll teach you." 214 00:15:26,326 --> 00:15:30,789 There should be much more funding than there is for infectious diseases. 215 00:15:31,130 --> 00:15:32,559 Iris was not gay, but 216 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:37,674 she could not see, with what was going on around her and what 217 00:15:38,005 --> 00:15:42,151 she knew, not reaching out to the affected communities of AIDS. 218 00:15:43,876 --> 00:15:46,845 I waited and went up to iris afterwards and said, 219 00:15:47,346 --> 00:15:50,790 "I'm interested in what you were saying, I'd like to know more, 220 00:15:50,884 --> 00:15:52,108 I'd like to help." 221 00:15:52,285 --> 00:15:54,326 And a few people joined her, 222 00:15:54,788 --> 00:15:57,532 and that became a bigger and bigger group and that became the 223 00:15:57,557 --> 00:15:59,066 treatment and data committee: 224 00:15:59,091 --> 00:15:59,791 T & D. 225 00:16:00,726 --> 00:16:03,004 They're still getting a hell of a lot more money than 226 00:16:03,029 --> 00:16:05,440 actually getting those treatments in... ...it was kind of a dorky 227 00:16:05,465 --> 00:16:09,973 activity for a bunch of east village hipsters and artists to sit around reading 228 00:16:10,604 --> 00:16:12,305 medical journal articles. 229 00:16:12,438 --> 00:16:15,524 We called it science club, like it was chess club or something. 230 00:16:15,708 --> 00:16:17,137 There aren't drugs. 231 00:16:18,077 --> 00:16:21,088 Individual after individual had to come to grips 232 00:16:21,782 --> 00:16:25,627 with the fact that "I will survive the longest, the most I 233 00:16:25,652 --> 00:16:29,039 know about what I'm putting into my body." 234 00:16:29,690 --> 00:16:32,693 So they all had to be become scientists, to some degree. 235 00:16:32,926 --> 00:16:35,070 And what I'd like everyone to do is to keep on thinking of 236 00:16:35,095 --> 00:16:38,105 ways to refine these things to make them more clear to people 237 00:16:38,130 --> 00:16:40,046 that don't necessarily know the issues. 238 00:16:40,232 --> 00:16:42,945 Like, 'o. I.', no one knows what 'o. I.' Is... Okay, so I wrote it 239 00:16:42,970 --> 00:16:44,557 here, just 'cause it's shorthand. 240 00:16:44,870 --> 00:16:47,548 Only 17% of people in their trials have been taking drugs 241 00:16:47,573 --> 00:16:49,860 for opportunistic infections or cancers... 242 00:16:50,009 --> 00:16:52,553 Mark wasn't like the big, beefcakey guy. 243 00:16:52,578 --> 00:16:55,433 He was super smart, smoked nonstop. 244 00:16:56,450 --> 00:16:59,290 Right away, Mark digested, as by osmosis, 245 00:17:01,087 --> 00:17:01,835 everything. 246 00:17:02,089 --> 00:17:05,666 And within a few weeks, he had come up with a glossary of AIDS 247 00:17:06,759 --> 00:17:11,270 treatment terms and we started giving it out in our meetings. 248 00:17:15,268 --> 00:17:18,280 Next we have an announcement by Tom Dwayne regarding housing. 249 00:17:19,740 --> 00:17:22,751 This is Bernard Braverman, who's in danger of being evicted 250 00:17:22,776 --> 00:17:26,974 from his apartment that he shared with his life partner for many, many years. 251 00:17:27,146 --> 00:17:30,292 His life partner died and the landlord wants Bernard out of 252 00:17:30,317 --> 00:17:33,175 his home, because his name was not on the lease. 253 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:35,865 What's his landlord's address? 254 00:17:38,325 --> 00:17:41,203 There are cards here to fill out to write to the governor. 255 00:17:41,228 --> 00:17:44,305 Let's make sure our voices are heard in New York City 256 00:17:44,330 --> 00:17:47,978 to save the homes of p.W.A.S and other non-traditional families. 257 00:17:48,300 --> 00:17:49,000 Thank you. 258 00:18:00,713 --> 00:18:02,724 I just want to say something about what's just happened. 259 00:18:02,749 --> 00:18:05,193 I've realized we haven't done anything yet for him and we 260 00:18:05,218 --> 00:18:07,928 haven't been effective and we haven't been powerful. 261 00:18:07,953 --> 00:18:08,973 But we will be. 262 00:18:09,923 --> 00:18:12,234 It's very inspiring to know that the power in this room is 263 00:18:12,259 --> 00:18:14,920 potentially available to each and every one of us. 264 00:18:20,333 --> 00:18:21,421 One, two, three. 265 00:18:27,441 --> 00:18:28,141 Good? 266 00:18:29,342 --> 00:18:30,008 How's it? 267 00:18:30,009 --> 00:18:31,690 Is that as good as daddy's or better? 268 00:18:32,645 --> 00:18:33,733 You're better. 269 00:18:33,946 --> 00:18:34,646 Yay! 270 00:18:35,715 --> 00:18:37,229 Would you like daddy to try it? 271 00:18:37,750 --> 00:18:38,702 Are you ready? 272 00:18:44,257 --> 00:18:45,686 That's not very good. 273 00:18:48,929 --> 00:18:50,017 One, two, three. 274 00:18:51,431 --> 00:18:55,910 I know this sounds ironic, considering that it ended in divorce, but I think it 275 00:18:56,603 --> 00:19:01,217 is fair to say it is the only really successful love affair of my life. 276 00:19:07,913 --> 00:19:09,342 I came out at age 40. 277 00:19:10,450 --> 00:19:13,398 It was very bad timing to come out in the middle of an epidemic. 278 00:19:15,454 --> 00:19:17,532 The question is what does a decent society do with people 279 00:19:17,557 --> 00:19:19,935 who hurt themselves because they're human, who smoke too 280 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,894 much, who eat too much, who drive carelessly, who don't have safe sex? 281 00:19:24,297 --> 00:19:26,545 I think the answer is that a decent society does not put 282 00:19:26,566 --> 00:19:30,320 people out to pasture and let them die because they've done a human thing. 283 00:19:41,181 --> 00:19:42,724 For the first time today, the government approved 284 00:19:42,749 --> 00:19:44,965 prescription sales of a drug to treat AIDS. 285 00:19:45,352 --> 00:19:48,796 The drug, A.Z.T., is not a cure for the disease, but it has 286 00:19:48,821 --> 00:19:51,106 prolonged the lives of some AIDS victims. 287 00:19:51,391 --> 00:19:54,074 It's the only government-approved AIDS drug in America. 288 00:19:54,661 --> 00:19:58,710 But even this most promising of drugs is a source of frustration and anger. 289 00:19:59,532 --> 00:20:01,301 At $10,000 a year cost per 290 00:20:01,634 --> 00:20:06,226 patient, it's prohibitively expensive for most and not widely available. 291 00:20:06,573 --> 00:20:09,150 Out of the bars and into the streets! 292 00:20:09,175 --> 00:20:11,465 Out of the bars and into the streets! 293 00:20:11,545 --> 00:20:14,022 A.Z.T. Was the most expensive drug in history; 294 00:20:14,047 --> 00:20:15,884 They charge $10,000 a year. 295 00:20:16,415 --> 00:20:20,263 We need to get a substantial price reduction out of this company. 296 00:20:20,953 --> 00:20:23,465 The incident began at 10 this morning when four AIDS 297 00:20:23,490 --> 00:20:27,101 activists took over an office at Burroughs Wellcome, saying they 298 00:20:27,126 --> 00:20:30,769 had enough food and water to stay holed up for a long time. 299 00:20:31,163 --> 00:20:35,154 The activists are demanding that Burroughs Wellcome lower its price of A.Z.T. 300 00:20:35,702 --> 00:20:38,406 Burroughs Wellcome is profiting off of our lives, 301 00:20:38,605 --> 00:20:40,105 that's why we did today what we did. 302 00:20:40,773 --> 00:20:42,950 And, if they don't see to, start 303 00:20:44,044 --> 00:20:47,688 listening to my community, to our community, the AIDS 304 00:20:47,713 --> 00:20:49,626 community, then we're gonna be back. 305 00:21:34,394 --> 00:21:37,232 One of the worst, worst things was when people 306 00:21:37,529 --> 00:21:42,609 died in the hospital, they used to put them in black trash bags. 307 00:21:45,638 --> 00:21:46,338 It was... 308 00:21:49,308 --> 00:21:50,669 It was really awful. 309 00:21:52,412 --> 00:21:56,623 And not every funeral parlor would take patients who had died 310 00:21:58,151 --> 00:21:58,851 of AIDS. 311 00:21:58,984 --> 00:22:00,821 But so the least we could 312 00:22:01,688 --> 00:22:03,525 offer is sympathy and moral 313 00:22:04,423 --> 00:22:06,600 support, you know, and kindness, 314 00:22:07,928 --> 00:22:08,812 and so forth. 315 00:22:09,296 --> 00:22:11,313 And that they deserved, in any case. 316 00:22:12,965 --> 00:22:16,500 And when even that became denied, you know, by the 317 00:22:17,804 --> 00:22:21,380 totalitarian rules of organizations, of institutions, 318 00:22:22,142 --> 00:22:23,843 it was really horrifying. 319 00:22:25,679 --> 00:22:28,953 It is the most frightening medical mystery of our times. 320 00:22:28,981 --> 00:22:33,536 AIDS victims must deal with the trauma of being both a patient and a pariah. 321 00:22:33,787 --> 00:22:35,828 I hate to use the word "gay" 322 00:22:36,256 --> 00:22:38,025 in connection with sodomy. 323 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,735 There's nothing gay about these people, engaging in incredibly 324 00:22:44,463 --> 00:22:49,031 offensive and revolting conduct that has led to the proliferation of AIDS. 325 00:22:49,803 --> 00:22:51,572 There is a feeling among 326 00:22:52,605 --> 00:22:54,578 members of any of a number of 327 00:22:55,141 --> 00:22:58,684 professions or just the general population, that patients with 328 00:22:59,746 --> 00:23:03,395 AIDS, many of whom are homosexual, are a little bit different. 329 00:23:03,450 --> 00:23:06,988 I think that that has led to a little bit of a complacency 330 00:23:07,354 --> 00:23:10,472 about the approach towards this disease. 331 00:23:12,057 --> 00:23:13,901 In the absence of adequate health care, we have learned to 332 00:23:13,926 --> 00:23:18,934 become our own clinicians, researchers, lobbyists, drug smugglers, pharmacists. 333 00:23:18,964 --> 00:23:22,577 We have our own libraries, newspapers, drug stores, and laboratories. 334 00:23:22,602 --> 00:23:26,648 Some of the medications that were made available were not effective. 335 00:23:26,673 --> 00:23:29,050 They were in this category that we called "what the hell" drugs, 336 00:23:29,075 --> 00:23:31,586 which is there's some evidence it could be useful, 337 00:23:31,611 --> 00:23:34,321 it's unlikely to be harmful... what the hell. 338 00:23:34,346 --> 00:23:35,434 Should I type? 339 00:23:38,151 --> 00:23:39,031 Yes, type. 340 00:23:42,721 --> 00:23:43,741 Take your time. 341 00:23:44,324 --> 00:23:45,208 Where are we? 342 00:23:45,325 --> 00:23:49,436 We're at the people with AIDS health group, the largest underground buyers' 343 00:23:49,461 --> 00:23:51,230 club in the United States. 344 00:23:52,499 --> 00:23:53,875 And what do you do here? 345 00:23:53,900 --> 00:23:57,603 We help people import drugs from other countries, um, 346 00:23:58,104 --> 00:23:59,414 that are unapproved here. 347 00:23:59,439 --> 00:24:03,614 Peptide T, albendazole, oral amphotericin b, um, we have a 348 00:24:04,210 --> 00:24:07,245 whole variety of things for your treatment pleasure. 349 00:24:09,582 --> 00:24:11,691 None of which work, by the way. 350 00:24:11,718 --> 00:24:12,534 Put that in. 351 00:24:14,086 --> 00:24:17,698 People with AIDS, what they were mostly thinking about was 352 00:24:17,723 --> 00:24:19,873 "oh, drugs, how do I get it off-market? 353 00:24:20,559 --> 00:24:24,039 How do I... will we ever get a black market for this drug? 354 00:24:24,064 --> 00:24:25,807 I hear this is good and..." 355 00:24:25,832 --> 00:24:27,809 It was iris who helped us see: 356 00:24:27,834 --> 00:24:30,011 We don't want a... black market, 357 00:24:31,770 --> 00:24:33,506 we want to make the real market work. 358 00:24:35,909 --> 00:24:36,609 Try it. 359 00:24:48,988 --> 00:24:51,511 Hi, I'm Mark Harrington from ACT UP New York. 360 00:24:52,125 --> 00:24:55,671 Recently, a lot of activists have been asking why ACT UP is going... 361 00:24:56,563 --> 00:24:59,506 Uh, you've got to start over, I've gotta do that... I've gotta do that over. 362 00:24:59,531 --> 00:25:01,009 You can just start yourself over. 363 00:25:01,034 --> 00:25:03,511 But I did - but I won't get that wonderful cigarette-lighting thing. 364 00:25:03,536 --> 00:25:05,580 I think the cigarette maybe is not going to work. 365 00:25:05,605 --> 00:25:07,125 I shouldn't use the cigarette at all? 366 00:25:07,507 --> 00:25:08,207 Really? 367 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,776 I don't think so, it's too, um... too much. 368 00:25:11,111 --> 00:25:11,859 Too much? 369 00:25:16,348 --> 00:25:18,838 Hi, I'm Mark Harrington from ACT UP New York. 370 00:25:19,419 --> 00:25:22,635 A lot of people have been asking why are AIDS activists going to the F.D.A.? 371 00:25:23,123 --> 00:25:25,332 First of all, you have to understand that the F.D.A. Is 372 00:25:25,357 --> 00:25:27,635 one of the many federal AIDS bureaucracies which we're angry 373 00:25:27,660 --> 00:25:29,971 with for not doing enough in the fight against AIDS. 374 00:25:29,996 --> 00:25:31,638 Half the people who take A.Z.T. 375 00:25:31,663 --> 00:25:33,774 Can't take it 'cause of side effects, and therefore, 376 00:25:33,799 --> 00:25:37,411 the F.D.A. Has to take a more activist stance in the experimental process. 377 00:25:37,436 --> 00:25:40,648 And only the F.D.A. Has the power under existing laws and 378 00:25:40,673 --> 00:25:44,478 regulations to release the drugs that we want released now. 379 00:25:44,844 --> 00:25:45,592 How's that? 380 00:25:47,846 --> 00:25:48,546 Chanting group approaches: 381 00:25:48,548 --> 00:25:49,924 A.Z.T. Is not enough! 382 00:25:49,949 --> 00:25:51,854 Give us all the other stuff! 383 00:25:51,951 --> 00:25:53,380 A.Z.T. Is not enough! 384 00:25:53,987 --> 00:25:55,892 Give us all the other stuff! 385 00:25:55,922 --> 00:25:57,351 A.Z.T. Is not enough! 386 00:25:57,923 --> 00:25:59,734 Give us all the other stuff! 387 00:25:59,759 --> 00:26:01,324 It takes nine months to 388 00:26:01,794 --> 00:26:05,961 test a drug in Europe... in Belgium, in France, in Germany, in england. 389 00:26:06,132 --> 00:26:10,476 We are not asking the F.D.A. To release dangerous drugs without 390 00:26:10,970 --> 00:26:12,263 safety or efficacy. 391 00:26:13,006 --> 00:26:15,115 We are simply asking the F.D.A. 392 00:26:15,909 --> 00:26:17,065 To do it quicker. 393 00:26:17,876 --> 00:26:18,896 Drugs for sale! 394 00:26:19,211 --> 00:26:20,231 Drugs for sale! 395 00:26:20,846 --> 00:26:22,322 Dextran sulfate for sale. 396 00:26:22,347 --> 00:26:23,524 Get your dextran here. 397 00:26:23,549 --> 00:26:25,182 You can't get it inside. 398 00:26:27,854 --> 00:26:29,767 ...f. D.A., but we're selling it anyway. 399 00:26:30,123 --> 00:26:31,892 $30 for dextran sulfate! 400 00:26:33,660 --> 00:26:35,074 Release the drugs now! 401 00:26:35,627 --> 00:26:37,124 Release the drugs now! 402 00:26:37,763 --> 00:26:39,260 Release the drugs now! 403 00:26:40,299 --> 00:26:42,204 ...get to work, get to work! 404 00:26:42,535 --> 00:26:44,236 Get to work, get to work! 405 00:26:44,671 --> 00:26:46,440 ...guilty, guilty, guilty! 406 00:26:46,806 --> 00:26:48,371 Guilty, guilty, guilty! 407 00:26:48,907 --> 00:26:50,472 Guilty, guilty, guilty! 408 00:26:51,778 --> 00:26:53,888 ...seize control, seize control! 409 00:26:53,913 --> 00:26:55,886 Seize control, seize control! 410 00:26:56,715 --> 00:26:57,415 Keep it moving! 411 00:26:57,416 --> 00:26:58,436 Keep it moving! 412 00:26:58,884 --> 00:26:59,827 Seize control! 413 00:26:59,852 --> 00:27:01,961 Seize control, seize control... 414 00:27:02,689 --> 00:27:03,564 Fight AIDS! 415 00:27:03,589 --> 00:27:04,289 ACT UP! 416 00:27:04,390 --> 00:27:05,056 Fight back! 417 00:27:05,057 --> 00:27:05,805 Fight AIDS! 418 00:27:10,096 --> 00:27:11,048 Seize control! 419 00:27:11,730 --> 00:27:13,174 Seize control, seize control! 420 00:27:13,199 --> 00:27:14,151 Seize control, 421 00:27:15,067 --> 00:27:17,040 seize control, seize control! 422 00:27:22,342 --> 00:27:23,430 Seize control! 423 00:27:46,798 --> 00:27:50,511 Tell us why you got arrested, where are they taking you, what's going on today? 424 00:27:50,536 --> 00:27:52,364 We don't know what's... where they're taking us. 425 00:27:52,372 --> 00:27:54,782 We're here because this government has the resources 426 00:27:54,807 --> 00:27:58,057 to deal with the AIDS epidemic, and they won't do it unless we force them. 427 00:27:58,111 --> 00:28:00,288 I.J. Hutchins reports live from Rockville, 428 00:28:00,313 --> 00:28:03,157 where the massive protest is wrapping up... I.J.? 429 00:28:03,182 --> 00:28:05,994 Well, Jim, it's being billed as one of Montgomery county's biggest 430 00:28:06,019 --> 00:28:08,529 demonstrations in recent history and it went off smoothly. 431 00:28:08,554 --> 00:28:10,595 185 arrests, as a coalition of 432 00:28:10,990 --> 00:28:14,419 gay groups came to Rockville to shut down the F.D.A. 433 00:28:17,663 --> 00:28:21,321 Tonight, from Washington, crossfire, against all odds. 434 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,433 On the left, Tom Braden. 435 00:28:23,702 --> 00:28:25,539 On the right, pat Buchanan. 436 00:28:25,904 --> 00:28:30,531 In the crossfire, Peter Staley of the New York AIDS coalition to unleash power. 437 00:28:30,843 --> 00:28:34,315 Peter Staley, you have the AIDS virus, and I am sorry. 438 00:28:36,449 --> 00:28:38,354 But don't you think that the 439 00:28:38,617 --> 00:28:42,595 federal drug administration has a responsibility not to let 440 00:28:43,955 --> 00:28:46,132 people, such as you, have quacks 441 00:28:48,060 --> 00:28:51,593 that could cause even more harm than you already have? 442 00:28:52,131 --> 00:28:55,738 The problem is, is that the F.D.A. Is using the same 443 00:28:56,402 --> 00:28:58,375 process to test a nasal spray 444 00:28:59,338 --> 00:29:02,408 as it is to test AIDS drugs, and it's a 7-10 year process. 445 00:29:02,674 --> 00:29:03,917 You have the F.D.A. 446 00:29:03,942 --> 00:29:05,166 Giving you a drug. 447 00:29:05,678 --> 00:29:07,379 So far, you've got A.Z.T. 448 00:29:07,846 --> 00:29:11,024 Why... - which I can't take because it's too... far too toxic 449 00:29:11,049 --> 00:29:13,427 and over half the people that have HIV can't take. 450 00:29:13,452 --> 00:29:15,289 Okay, but the F.D.A. Says 451 00:29:16,154 --> 00:29:20,935 there is nothing else that is worth anything. 452 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,937 Mr. Staley, this is gonna astonish you, but I agree with you a hundred percent. 453 00:29:23,962 --> 00:29:26,240 I think if someone's got AIDS and someone wants to take a 454 00:29:26,265 --> 00:29:29,776 drug, it's their life and if it gives them hope, you ought to be able to take it. 455 00:29:29,801 --> 00:29:32,813 What I want to ask you is whether you know of anything 456 00:29:32,838 --> 00:29:35,817 that you think might be some kind of miraculous cure that 457 00:29:35,842 --> 00:29:37,420 you think they're sitting on at F.D.A. 458 00:29:38,044 --> 00:29:41,289 There are over 140 drugs out there that the F.D.A. Has 459 00:29:41,314 --> 00:29:43,219 identified as possibilities, 460 00:29:44,182 --> 00:29:47,094 and are in some stage of being looked at right now. 461 00:29:47,119 --> 00:29:48,129 Why are they holding back? 462 00:29:48,154 --> 00:29:52,031 Among that 140, there's gotta be one or a combination thereof 463 00:29:52,325 --> 00:29:56,428 that can, that can slow down this virus or halt it in its tracks. 464 00:29:56,662 --> 00:29:59,240 You're just simply carrying the virus, is that correct? 465 00:29:59,265 --> 00:30:03,555 I have a few very minor symptoms and my immune system is virtually shot. 466 00:30:03,836 --> 00:30:04,957 What would you like to take? 467 00:30:04,971 --> 00:30:08,247 I would like to be able to take dextran sulfate... legally. 468 00:30:08,340 --> 00:30:09,183 How would that hurt you? 469 00:30:09,208 --> 00:30:10,656 ...on the underground right now. 470 00:30:10,843 --> 00:30:12,285 Well, why not, Mr. Braden? 471 00:30:12,310 --> 00:30:15,490 Because... well, I don't know anything about dextran sulfate. 472 00:30:15,515 --> 00:30:16,323 Well, I'll tell you this: 473 00:30:16,348 --> 00:30:19,694 It's an over-the-counter drug in Japan and has been for 20 years. 474 00:30:19,852 --> 00:30:21,689 But - over-the-counter. 475 00:30:21,854 --> 00:30:24,732 But if the F.D.A. Says... I'm only asking that they 476 00:30:24,757 --> 00:30:29,516 be released after there's a minimal amount of efficacy, not a 100% test. 477 00:30:30,962 --> 00:30:34,299 You've got the pink triangle on your shirt, silence equals death. 478 00:30:34,467 --> 00:30:36,216 I gather that means you're a homosexual. 479 00:30:36,602 --> 00:30:38,745 - Yes. - Looking in the camera, what would you tell some 480 00:30:38,770 --> 00:30:41,880 kid, say you had a younger brother, 21 years old, who also 481 00:30:42,541 --> 00:30:44,718 might have homosexual tendencies, what would you tell 482 00:30:44,743 --> 00:30:46,721 him if you wanted him to live a long life? 483 00:30:46,746 --> 00:30:51,581 Use a condom, and also to use a lubricant, by the way, that has the medicine... 484 00:30:52,452 --> 00:30:54,094 this is Russian roulette. 485 00:30:54,119 --> 00:30:55,862 It is not Russian roulette. 486 00:30:55,887 --> 00:30:58,733 It is Russian roulette to not give people this information 487 00:30:58,758 --> 00:31:00,802 when human nature dictates that they're gonna 488 00:31:00,828 --> 00:31:02,669 go out there, and they're gonna have sex. 489 00:31:02,694 --> 00:31:04,906 - You mean celibacy is impossible? - It's just not gonna work. 490 00:31:04,931 --> 00:31:08,045 People aren't gonna do it, and lots, lots of people are gonna die. 491 00:31:08,099 --> 00:31:10,208 Now would you rather have a lot 492 00:31:10,903 --> 00:31:13,380 of people cheating on their celibacy with thousands of 493 00:31:13,405 --> 00:31:17,027 people dying, or would you rather save those lives and let them have sex? 494 00:31:17,309 --> 00:31:19,920 I think that, uh... Well, thank you very much, 495 00:31:19,945 --> 00:31:21,555 Peter Staley, thanks for being in our studio. 496 00:31:21,580 --> 00:31:23,730 Mr. Braden and I will be back in in a minute. 497 00:31:27,452 --> 00:31:30,996 One of the things we wanted was a drug that you gave 498 00:31:31,257 --> 00:31:34,930 to people who had cytomegalovirus and advanced 499 00:31:35,694 --> 00:31:39,896 AIDS, because people who had both tended to go blind. 500 00:31:41,133 --> 00:31:42,630 It was called d.H.P.G. 501 00:32:13,164 --> 00:32:16,577 In a way similar to A.Z.T., it was highly toxic, but it was 502 00:32:16,602 --> 00:32:20,344 known to be effective because 6,000 people had already used 503 00:32:21,106 --> 00:32:23,962 the drug, but never in a clinical trial. 504 00:32:25,344 --> 00:32:26,500 Hey, hey, F.D.A.! 505 00:32:27,279 --> 00:32:29,161 How many people did you kill today? 506 00:32:29,815 --> 00:32:32,459 We are with Jim Eigo from ACT UP, and there's a major 507 00:32:32,484 --> 00:32:35,628 protest going on here in Bethesda over the drug d.H.P.G. 508 00:32:35,820 --> 00:32:36,964 Tell us what's happening. 509 00:32:36,989 --> 00:32:40,264 Well, this is the second meeting of the bush commission 510 00:32:40,425 --> 00:32:44,472 for reviewing procedures for approving AIDS and cancer drugs. 511 00:32:44,497 --> 00:32:46,198 And we thought, since the 512 00:32:46,699 --> 00:32:50,267 non-approval of d.H.P.G. Is such a perfect example of how 513 00:32:50,702 --> 00:32:53,414 regulation has gone wrong, we'd bring it home to the 514 00:32:53,439 --> 00:32:57,023 commission itself by showing up here in force, and that's what we've done. 515 00:32:57,309 --> 00:33:00,454 Okay, also inside at the hearing itself, and I understand 516 00:33:00,479 --> 00:33:03,291 there's gonna be an action in just a little while when Ellen Cooper speaks. 517 00:33:03,316 --> 00:33:04,264 I guess so. 518 00:33:09,055 --> 00:33:10,298 What about d.H.P.G.? 519 00:33:10,323 --> 00:33:11,684 What about d.H.P.G.? 520 00:33:13,659 --> 00:33:16,868 Without the objective data, we feel that we would indeed be 521 00:33:17,797 --> 00:33:19,770 on, on treacherous grounds in 522 00:33:21,166 --> 00:33:24,311 defending that decision, and in fact would be wide open to the 523 00:33:24,336 --> 00:33:26,626 charge of arbitrary decision-making. 524 00:33:27,239 --> 00:33:29,008 Although, uh, we certainly 525 00:33:29,342 --> 00:33:31,091 wouldn't be be accused of being inflexible. 526 00:33:31,210 --> 00:33:34,378 You did it with A.Z.T., I don't see why you can't do it with... 527 00:33:34,846 --> 00:33:37,925 I mean, I have to say that the difference in the data 528 00:33:37,950 --> 00:33:39,991 between A.Z.T. And d.H.P.G. Is 529 00:33:40,553 --> 00:33:44,682 the difference between night and day, as far as... Sight and blindness. 530 00:33:45,090 --> 00:33:46,655 You're just as blind... 531 00:33:48,794 --> 00:33:52,758 ...since this meeting's started, and four more are gonna die before it's over. 532 00:33:52,798 --> 00:33:54,074 Who represents the patient on this panel? 533 00:33:54,099 --> 00:33:56,462 Where is the person of color on this panel? 534 00:33:56,769 --> 00:33:58,334 F.D.A. Relooks at the 535 00:33:59,704 --> 00:34:01,813 d.H.P.G. Data and suddenly, oh! 536 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:03,533 Agrees with ACT UP. 537 00:34:05,443 --> 00:34:06,599 Ready for a vote? 538 00:34:07,847 --> 00:34:09,888 All in favor, raise your hand. 539 00:34:11,951 --> 00:34:12,699 One, two... 540 00:34:13,753 --> 00:34:15,250 Well, that's everyone. 541 00:34:19,291 --> 00:34:21,601 It was really an amazing encounter, but it sort 542 00:34:21,626 --> 00:34:24,270 of felt like reaching, uh, the wizard of oz, like, 543 00:34:24,295 --> 00:34:26,906 you've got to the center of the whole, of the whole system, 544 00:34:26,931 --> 00:34:29,143 and there's just this schmuck behind a curtain. 545 00:34:29,168 --> 00:34:31,946 There was no guiding agenda, there was no leadership, 546 00:34:31,971 --> 00:34:35,451 there was no global strategy for how to deal with AIDS in the U.S. 547 00:34:36,608 --> 00:34:40,018 And so, on the bus back from Bethesda, we decided to write a 548 00:34:40,346 --> 00:34:43,123 treatment agenda, because nobody was dealing with the entire map 549 00:34:43,148 --> 00:34:45,259 of AIDS, the entire constellation of opportunistic 550 00:34:45,284 --> 00:34:48,261 infections, the gaps in research, the underrepresented 551 00:34:48,286 --> 00:34:51,398 populations, the fact that the diseases and the drugs might 552 00:34:51,423 --> 00:34:52,744 be different in those populations. 553 00:34:52,757 --> 00:34:55,936 - How would we ever find out? - They weren't even being studied. 554 00:34:57,697 --> 00:34:59,194 ??In the dark of night 555 00:35:00,833 --> 00:35:02,398 I laid myself to rest ?? 556 00:35:07,106 --> 00:35:09,147 ??step out of the strange... ?? 557 00:35:10,775 --> 00:35:12,358 - Bye, Ron! - Bye, Bobby! 556 00:35:15,547 --> 00:35:17,458 Come on Catherine, let's go. It's time to go. 557 00:35:17,483 --> 00:35:18,183 Yeah. 558 00:35:21,820 --> 00:35:22,520 ??Again ?? 561 00:35:24,322 --> 00:35:25,615 ??come to life... ?? 562 00:35:28,027 --> 00:35:29,388 ...knows no borders! 559 00:35:29,461 --> 00:35:30,549 The AIDS crisis! 560 00:35:31,130 --> 00:35:32,286 Knows no borders! 561 00:35:32,697 --> 00:35:33,785 The AIDS crisis! 562 00:35:34,233 --> 00:35:35,389 Knows no borders! 563 00:35:35,668 --> 00:35:36,756 The AIDS crisis! 564 00:35:37,235 --> 00:35:38,391 Knows no borders! 565 00:35:38,771 --> 00:35:39,859 The AIDS crisis! 566 00:35:40,472 --> 00:35:41,628 Knows no borders! 567 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:42,928 The AIDS crisis! 568 00:35:43,541 --> 00:35:44,697 Knows no borders! 569 00:35:45,677 --> 00:35:48,355 I'd just like to say that the reasons I can't get any 570 00:35:48,380 --> 00:35:51,792 of these drugs is 'cause for nine years now, the leadership 571 00:35:51,817 --> 00:35:55,693 in this country has failed to come up with a plan of action. 572 00:35:55,820 --> 00:35:58,961 They've failed to come up with a plan of research, a national 573 00:35:59,791 --> 00:36:00,879 research agenda. 574 00:36:01,427 --> 00:36:05,441 People with AIDS and their advocates have finally done this for them. 575 00:36:05,731 --> 00:36:06,479 This is it. 576 00:36:07,500 --> 00:36:09,249 This is the plan we're presenting. 577 00:36:09,534 --> 00:36:12,413 We need our government to read this plan, we need them to work 578 00:36:12,438 --> 00:36:16,217 with us, if they want to change it a little, we'll talk to them. 579 00:36:16,242 --> 00:36:19,085 But I want them to adopt it, I want them to get started 580 00:36:19,110 --> 00:36:21,941 on it, I want them to save our lives. Thank you. 581 00:36:23,148 --> 00:36:27,360 I snuck around and grabbed, uh, grabbed one of those copies, 582 00:36:27,385 --> 00:36:29,290 and it was very interesting. 583 00:36:29,355 --> 00:36:31,397 We believe that the united states has a global 584 00:36:31,422 --> 00:36:34,668 responsibility to quickly develop effective treatments, 585 00:36:34,693 --> 00:36:37,772 not only for HIV infection itself, but for all of the 586 00:36:37,797 --> 00:36:40,107 opportunistic infections, which actually cause suffering and 587 00:36:40,132 --> 00:36:42,076 death in people living with AIDS. 588 00:36:42,101 --> 00:36:46,471 This is not a new agenda, and it is not an agenda of only ACT UP. 589 00:36:46,672 --> 00:36:48,181 Scientists agree with this. 590 00:36:48,206 --> 00:36:49,635 Why can't we have it? 591 00:36:49,809 --> 00:36:52,052 The researchers and regulators are going to have to 592 00:36:52,077 --> 00:36:55,855 come up with a parallel release program that will get drugs to 593 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,493 the people who need it before the five years down the pipe 594 00:36:59,518 --> 00:37:01,466 where they may be approved by the F.D.A. 595 00:37:01,786 --> 00:37:04,827 I was scribbling madly in this copy of their, 596 00:37:04,856 --> 00:37:07,567 their AIDS treatment research agenda... I would go back and 597 00:37:07,592 --> 00:37:09,633 forth between saying, "no, no! 598 00:37:09,829 --> 00:37:11,538 They, they don't understand!" 599 00:37:11,563 --> 00:37:15,233 To saying, "whoa, you mean this isn't the way we're doing trials? 600 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,362 You mean people aren't allowed to do this or that?" 601 00:37:18,469 --> 00:37:21,845 But I have to tell you that I was still not ready to sort of 602 00:37:22,173 --> 00:37:24,456 go up to them and try, try and engage. 603 00:37:24,976 --> 00:37:28,221 I brought this copy back and I distributed it to a small group 604 00:37:28,246 --> 00:37:33,060 of statisticians that was meeting regularly to talk about trial design issues. 605 00:37:33,085 --> 00:37:36,426 The people sitting around that table got as excited as I did. 606 00:37:36,922 --> 00:37:39,685 This had clearly been written by people who were very 607 00:37:40,559 --> 00:37:44,635 knowledgeable, very, very intelligent, and really wanted 608 00:37:45,364 --> 00:37:47,174 to do the trials the best possible way. 609 00:37:47,199 --> 00:37:48,576 They were not against trials. 610 00:37:48,601 --> 00:37:50,978 They wanted to get the right answers, but they wanted what 611 00:37:51,003 --> 00:37:52,772 they called humane trials. 612 00:37:52,938 --> 00:37:56,713 It all came together in Montreal, but what was new for 613 00:37:57,009 --> 00:38:00,661 ACT UP... we went to a drug company. 614 00:38:01,079 --> 00:38:03,623 There is renewed hope for people infected with AIDS. 615 00:38:03,648 --> 00:38:07,527 A new experimental drug, D.D.I., will be distributed on a limited 616 00:38:07,552 --> 00:38:11,898 basis for free this fall by its developer, the giant Bristol-Myers company. 617 00:38:11,923 --> 00:38:15,101 This marks the first time an anti-AIDS drug will be available 618 00:38:15,126 --> 00:38:17,240 even before safety testing is finished. 619 00:38:17,795 --> 00:38:20,975 Full A.Z.T. Treatment is too much for patient Peter Staley. 620 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,612 For nine months, he's been limited to a quarter-dose of the drug, and wants D.D.I. 621 00:38:24,637 --> 00:38:25,913 As soon as possible. 622 00:38:25,938 --> 00:38:28,047 Do you need D.D.I. To live, do you think? 623 00:38:28,072 --> 00:38:29,977 Yes, I need, I need D.D.I. 624 00:38:30,442 --> 00:38:33,176 I probably need some other anti-virals beyond that. 625 00:38:33,679 --> 00:38:37,485 It is historic, it is because the AIDS activist community 626 00:38:37,782 --> 00:38:39,347 has obtained this drug. 627 00:38:39,717 --> 00:38:43,163 It is not the government, no one has given it to us, we have 628 00:38:43,188 --> 00:38:46,089 fought for it, and for the first time, we have won. 629 00:38:47,226 --> 00:38:50,471 So, by '89, less than a year after our F.D.A. Demo, they had 630 00:38:50,496 --> 00:38:53,507 approved a drug to prevent blindness in people with AIDS. 631 00:38:53,532 --> 00:38:56,941 And we had gotten expanded access to D.D.I., and that was 632 00:38:57,101 --> 00:38:58,734 a very powerful feeling. 633 00:38:58,871 --> 00:39:02,148 We felt like we were taking direct action and we were helping make 634 00:39:02,173 --> 00:39:03,670 people's lives better. 635 00:39:07,346 --> 00:39:10,583 I wasn't sure that A.Z.T. Or D.D.I. Were all that great, 636 00:39:10,648 --> 00:39:12,860 but we were beginning to get letters from people that said, 637 00:39:12,885 --> 00:39:15,094 "thank you for saving my eyesight, " " thank you, ACT UP, 638 00:39:15,119 --> 00:39:17,063 for getting me access to D.D.I. 639 00:39:17,088 --> 00:39:19,061 And helping to save my life." 640 00:39:25,898 --> 00:39:29,337 At Merck, HIV was an important scientific target. 641 00:39:31,570 --> 00:39:33,407 HIV, of course, is a virus. 642 00:39:33,938 --> 00:39:37,782 In order for the virus to infect an uninfected cell, it needs to 643 00:39:38,911 --> 00:39:41,346 construct itself in a particular way. 644 00:39:42,380 --> 00:39:46,459 First, the viral RNA needs to transform itself into a DNA copy 645 00:39:47,485 --> 00:39:52,475 in order to knit itself into the nuclear DNA of the newly infected cell. 646 00:39:52,858 --> 00:39:56,290 This occurs by a process called reverse transcription. 647 00:39:56,527 --> 00:40:01,671 - A.Z.T. And D.D.I. Were both - Originally developed to try to 648 00:40:02,067 --> 00:40:05,233 inhibit that process of establishing infection. 649 00:40:05,737 --> 00:40:08,982 A number of other researchers began to focus on another 650 00:40:09,007 --> 00:40:13,122 portion of the viral life cycle, after the cell is already infected. 651 00:40:13,478 --> 00:40:17,353 One of the steps that it takes is that is... it makes a viral 652 00:40:18,483 --> 00:40:23,554 protein, it has to snip that viral protein in very specific places. 653 00:40:24,023 --> 00:40:29,012 The resulting pieces self-assemble to make the viral particle. 654 00:40:29,561 --> 00:40:32,139 And what does the snipping, and what in fact controls 655 00:40:32,164 --> 00:40:36,027 the snipping is a viral protein called the protease. 656 00:40:36,335 --> 00:40:40,047 If you genetically modify the viral protease so that it can no 657 00:40:40,072 --> 00:40:43,512 longer snip, the virus no longer has the ability to make those 658 00:40:43,675 --> 00:40:45,786 component pieces that it needs to make in order to 659 00:40:45,811 --> 00:40:49,015 self-assemble, and make an infectious viral particle. 660 00:40:50,449 --> 00:40:53,082 We solved the structure of HIV protease in 1989, 661 00:40:54,485 --> 00:40:56,662 and published it pretty quickly. 662 00:40:56,889 --> 00:41:00,100 I think, I think we saw the structure and within a few weeks 663 00:41:00,125 --> 00:41:01,435 it was in the literature. 664 00:41:01,460 --> 00:41:03,636 And then the question became "all right, can we prove it?" 665 00:41:03,661 --> 00:41:06,739 Can we prove it that that is in fact the case, and most 666 00:41:06,764 --> 00:41:10,572 importantly, can we prove that if you inhibit that protease, 667 00:41:10,869 --> 00:41:14,276 if you knock out its activity, that the virus can no longer 668 00:41:14,472 --> 00:41:18,152 replicate, and therefore make new progeny viral particles that 669 00:41:18,177 --> 00:41:20,878 would then go on and establish a new cycle of infection. 670 00:41:27,686 --> 00:41:29,596 AIDS is now the leading cause of death for men 671 00:41:29,621 --> 00:41:32,989 under 44 in New York and a half-dozen other cities, 672 00:41:33,257 --> 00:41:35,880 surpassing homicide and all other diseases. 673 00:41:35,927 --> 00:41:38,772 Yet Roman catholic bishops are meeting this week to publicly 674 00:41:38,797 --> 00:41:42,061 oppose the use of condoms as morally unacceptable. 675 00:41:42,733 --> 00:41:46,471 This puts them in direct opposition to U.S. public health policy. 676 00:41:48,474 --> 00:41:51,250 The new church position condemns not only the 677 00:41:51,275 --> 00:41:55,010 immorality of condoms, but their effectiveness, as well. 678 00:41:55,114 --> 00:41:58,826 The draft under consideration in Baltimore this week says it is 679 00:41:58,851 --> 00:42:03,027 quote, "a virtual certainty that reliance on condoms will result 680 00:42:03,188 --> 00:42:04,889 in transmission of AIDS." 681 00:42:05,490 --> 00:42:08,902 Of the bishop's proposed new policy, New York City health 682 00:42:08,927 --> 00:42:10,728 commissioner Stephen Joseph says... 683 00:42:11,195 --> 00:42:13,175 This would be a public health disaster. 684 00:42:13,498 --> 00:42:16,909 It would undoubtedly lead to more transmission, particularly 685 00:42:16,934 --> 00:42:21,081 in high-risk areas of the city, more disease and more death. 686 00:42:21,106 --> 00:42:25,185 Catholic conservatives say not just physical death but spiritual 687 00:42:25,210 --> 00:42:26,775 death is at issue here. 688 00:42:27,146 --> 00:42:30,790 As New York City's archbishop, John cardinal O'Connor put it... 689 00:42:30,815 --> 00:42:34,428 The use of prophylactics is immoral in a pluralistic society 690 00:42:35,253 --> 00:42:36,682 or any other society. 691 00:42:38,422 --> 00:42:42,002 I think that's it except, of course, we have Ann Northrop 692 00:42:42,027 --> 00:42:44,204 giving her sound bite technique. 693 00:42:53,304 --> 00:42:55,413 Uh, we want everybody to join 694 00:42:56,574 --> 00:42:58,547 us, to support us, to destroy 695 00:42:59,545 --> 00:43:02,616 the power of the catholic church, to make our side the 696 00:43:03,014 --> 00:43:04,851 strong one, and to do that, 697 00:43:05,384 --> 00:43:09,061 we must put out the message that we are the ones who are 698 00:43:09,086 --> 00:43:13,594 fighting for people's lives, and they are the murderers. 699 00:43:14,293 --> 00:43:16,266 Don't be afraid of the media. 700 00:43:16,762 --> 00:43:19,982 You're talking through them to the public. 701 00:43:20,199 --> 00:43:23,622 We are trying to arouse, to anger an action. 702 00:43:25,369 --> 00:43:30,200 And hone it down to, yes, a three-second bite, a five-second bite, 703 00:43:31,043 --> 00:43:35,154 just a phrase that will have an impact, that will say something 704 00:43:35,179 --> 00:43:38,568 specific and that will be understandable. 705 00:43:39,885 --> 00:43:40,585 So... 706 00:43:50,394 --> 00:43:52,163 I don't have a, uh, phrase 707 00:43:52,563 --> 00:43:55,826 worked out, and, uh, so you're all gonna have to create your 708 00:43:55,833 --> 00:43:57,738 own, so this is empowerment. 709 00:44:02,940 --> 00:44:03,640 ACT UP! 710 00:44:04,742 --> 00:44:05,442 ACT UP! 711 00:44:08,914 --> 00:44:09,730 ??Answer me, 712 00:44:10,681 --> 00:44:11,565 sweet Jesus ?? 717 00:44:12,717 --> 00:44:14,214 ??won't you help me? ?? 718 00:44:16,822 --> 00:44:18,732 Please, you're interfering with us, step back. 713 00:44:18,757 --> 00:44:19,900 This is Jesus Christ. 714 00:44:19,925 --> 00:44:22,587 I'm in front of St. Patrick's cathedral on Sunday. 715 00:44:23,161 --> 00:44:26,906 We're here reporting on a major AIDS activist and abortion-rights activist 716 00:44:26,931 --> 00:44:30,310 demonstration, which will be taking place here all morning. 717 00:44:30,335 --> 00:44:32,240 Inside, cardinal O'Connor is 718 00:44:32,938 --> 00:44:37,332 busy spreading his lies and rumors about the position of lesbians and gays. 719 00:44:37,675 --> 00:44:40,319 We're here to say we want to go to heaven, too. 720 00:44:57,996 --> 00:45:01,074 J.C. Here with the fire and brimstone network, and we'd like 721 00:45:01,099 --> 00:45:05,524 to ask you a little bit about this large vision that you've visited upon us. 722 00:45:05,637 --> 00:45:07,480 Well, we've decided to rename the cardinal. 723 00:45:07,505 --> 00:45:09,342 He's now cardinal O'Condom. 724 00:45:09,740 --> 00:45:13,050 This is our message to him that condoms are safe, it's no sin. 725 00:45:42,474 --> 00:45:43,562 Stop killing us! 726 00:45:44,041 --> 00:45:45,129 Stop killing us! 727 00:45:46,143 --> 00:45:47,231 Stop killing us! 728 00:45:47,913 --> 00:45:49,690 We're not gonna take it anymore! 729 00:45:50,014 --> 00:45:51,238 You're killing us! 730 00:45:51,516 --> 00:45:52,216 Stop it! 731 00:45:52,818 --> 00:45:53,518 Stop it! 732 00:45:54,152 --> 00:45:54,852 Stop it! 733 00:45:55,454 --> 00:45:56,154 Stop it! 734 00:45:56,722 --> 00:45:57,878 Stop it, stop it! 735 00:45:59,358 --> 00:46:00,058 Stop it! 736 00:46:02,626 --> 00:46:04,310 How many more have to die? 737 00:46:04,596 --> 00:46:06,365 How many more have to die? 738 00:46:06,664 --> 00:46:08,705 Saving lives is morally right! 739 00:46:09,434 --> 00:46:10,522 Those protesting 740 00:46:10,969 --> 00:46:14,104 believe that the protests will result in some change of 741 00:46:16,173 --> 00:46:18,934 environment, some change of attitudes, perhaps. 742 00:46:19,777 --> 00:46:23,754 The church will be teaching that homosexual activity is sinful, 743 00:46:24,516 --> 00:46:25,859 until the end of time. 744 00:46:25,884 --> 00:46:27,108 That won't change. 745 00:46:33,190 --> 00:46:34,826 This is July 22nd, 1989. 746 00:46:36,027 --> 00:46:39,029 Now Sara, what do you think about your dad being 44? 747 00:46:39,797 --> 00:46:40,497 Good. 748 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:43,810 Thank you, thank you for your support. 749 00:46:43,835 --> 00:46:44,923 One, two, three. 750 00:46:48,739 --> 00:46:50,520 Yay... We did it. 751 00:46:53,244 --> 00:46:54,221 A lot of smoke. 752 00:46:54,246 --> 00:46:54,946 Oh, boy. 753 00:46:55,112 --> 00:46:56,790 I wish those candles would stop smoking. 754 00:46:56,815 --> 00:46:58,324 It's bad for their health. 755 00:46:58,349 --> 00:46:59,092 That's right. 756 00:46:59,117 --> 00:47:02,027 Okay, Robert Rafsky, do you have any remarks before you jump off 757 00:47:02,052 --> 00:47:03,163 the edge of the porch? 758 00:47:03,188 --> 00:47:05,799 I have no interest in jumping off the edge of the porch. 759 00:47:05,824 --> 00:47:06,799 I will jump up and down. 760 00:47:06,824 --> 00:47:08,534 I think 44 is a very fine age. 761 00:47:08,559 --> 00:47:11,999 It has a nice symmetry to it, it has a nice feeling to it. 762 00:47:12,030 --> 00:47:15,330 It's, uh, better than 22 and possibly better than 88. 763 00:47:15,467 --> 00:47:16,167 We'll see. 764 00:47:17,936 --> 00:47:19,545 Here's how we planned this. 765 00:47:19,570 --> 00:47:23,784 What we want to do is run this like a treatment and data meeting. 766 00:47:24,309 --> 00:47:27,052 A number of times we've had people come to a treatment and 767 00:47:27,077 --> 00:47:28,778 data meeting and speak on 768 00:47:29,648 --> 00:47:30,656 certain issues. 769 00:47:30,681 --> 00:47:33,719 We try to get in depth, we try to nail issues down. 770 00:47:34,351 --> 00:47:36,096 This isn't a free-for-all. 771 00:47:36,121 --> 00:47:38,040 Let's call it a working confrontation. 772 00:47:38,956 --> 00:47:40,521 So, why don't we start? 773 00:47:40,992 --> 00:47:42,761 This is Dr. Anthony Fauci. 774 00:47:43,661 --> 00:47:44,409 Bob Rafsky. 775 00:47:44,795 --> 00:47:48,638 I may be wrong, Dr. Fauci, but it's my understanding that 776 00:47:49,733 --> 00:47:53,743 thousands of people died from pneumonia because there was no 777 00:47:53,771 --> 00:47:56,650 priority within the government, or within the medical system 778 00:47:56,675 --> 00:47:58,648 as a whole, to push the known 779 00:47:59,878 --> 00:48:01,792 preventative treatments for a long time. 780 00:48:02,047 --> 00:48:04,894 Now those thousands of people are dead. 781 00:48:05,182 --> 00:48:08,661 It would seem to me that someone who was within the government 782 00:48:08,686 --> 00:48:12,522 while that took place, as you were, must have on their 783 00:48:12,990 --> 00:48:14,623 conscience these deaths. 784 00:48:15,327 --> 00:48:17,232 That is a tough one, um... 785 00:48:18,063 --> 00:48:19,219 No, it really is. 786 00:48:19,364 --> 00:48:22,875 It's inexcusable that an academic priority should ever, 787 00:48:22,900 --> 00:48:26,145 ever come before the health of the people that you're working 788 00:48:26,170 --> 00:48:27,581 with, there's no question about that. 789 00:48:27,606 --> 00:48:31,817 But the reality of the situation is there was a great reluctance 790 00:48:34,112 --> 00:48:35,609 among the community of 791 00:48:37,215 --> 00:48:41,061 everything from the scientists to the congress saying that what 792 00:48:41,585 --> 00:48:43,286 we should be doing is not 793 00:48:44,456 --> 00:48:48,433 telling investigators what to do, but we should allow them to 794 00:48:49,059 --> 00:48:51,371 do what they feel is the most important. 795 00:48:51,396 --> 00:48:54,940 Now that sounds awful when you're putting it in the context 796 00:48:54,965 --> 00:48:59,212 of what we're talking about here, but the whole world isn't in this room. 797 00:48:59,237 --> 00:49:01,121 Every 12 minutes someone dies! 798 00:49:01,373 --> 00:49:03,414 Protests won me a Nobel prize! 799 00:49:03,541 --> 00:49:05,728 Every 12 minutes, someone dies... 800 00:49:08,313 --> 00:49:12,416 AIDS activists stormed the government's premiere disease research center. 801 00:49:12,583 --> 00:49:16,206 The national institutes of health is where an AIDS cure might be found. 802 00:49:16,487 --> 00:49:19,465 It is where therapies are being tested in clinical trials. 803 00:49:19,490 --> 00:49:21,104 No more secret meetings! 804 00:49:21,559 --> 00:49:24,904 No more secret... Demonstrators blocked access to buildings. 805 00:49:24,929 --> 00:49:28,987 Scientists and administrators reporting to work stood around looking confused. 806 00:49:29,568 --> 00:49:33,712 Activists charged the bush administration with foot-dragging on AIDS research. 807 00:49:33,938 --> 00:49:37,016 It's not the amount of federal money allocated to it so much as 808 00:49:37,041 --> 00:49:38,985 how research priorities are defined. 809 00:49:39,010 --> 00:49:42,149 We need new drugs to keep people alive, but the NIH is 810 00:49:42,213 --> 00:49:44,657 only testing old drugs, drugs that we already have. 811 00:49:44,682 --> 00:49:46,326 Can you tell us what you're doing? 812 00:49:46,351 --> 00:49:49,482 Hi, I'm Jim Jenson and I'm in a clinical trial here. 813 00:49:49,554 --> 00:49:54,042 And right now, I'm observing and participating in the ACT UP demonstration. 814 00:49:54,092 --> 00:49:56,235 Why? Why do you support this action? 815 00:49:56,260 --> 00:49:58,247 Because we need far more AIDS research. 816 00:49:58,630 --> 00:49:59,772 And we're just beginning. 817 00:49:59,797 --> 00:50:01,206 What trial are you in? 818 00:50:01,231 --> 00:50:03,967 I'm in interleukin-2 A.Z.T. Combination study. 819 00:50:04,702 --> 00:50:06,346 Are there any women in your trial? 820 00:50:06,371 --> 00:50:07,771 No, there aren't any women at all. 821 00:50:08,072 --> 00:50:09,160 People of color? 822 00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:10,650 Uh, no, there are not. 823 00:50:10,675 --> 00:50:12,053 Why do you think that is? 824 00:50:12,344 --> 00:50:14,898 Just the beginning of the problem. 825 00:50:15,512 --> 00:50:16,180 Murder, murder! 826 00:50:16,181 --> 00:50:18,629 There are three major things that control stupidity, 827 00:50:19,985 --> 00:50:21,550 incompetence and greed. 828 00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:24,264 Those are the three major driving forces behind what's 829 00:50:24,289 --> 00:50:26,799 going on here and why there are no treatments out there for 830 00:50:26,824 --> 00:50:29,001 people living with this disease. 831 00:50:29,226 --> 00:50:32,438 In that building down that way, Dr. Anthony Fauci is deciding 832 00:50:32,463 --> 00:50:34,333 the research priorities for the national 833 00:50:34,359 --> 00:50:36,476 institutes of allergy and infectious diseases. 834 00:50:36,501 --> 00:50:38,744 We're down here 'cause we think we should be deciding the 835 00:50:38,769 --> 00:50:40,947 research priorities, because these are the people who know 836 00:50:40,972 --> 00:50:43,741 what's going on 'cause they're dealing with it every day. 837 00:50:53,050 --> 00:50:54,701 The whole world is watching! 838 00:50:54,818 --> 00:50:56,723 The whole world is watching! 839 00:50:56,820 --> 00:50:59,766 The whole world is watching! 840 00:50:59,791 --> 00:51:02,601 The whole world is watching... The whole world is watching! 841 00:51:02,626 --> 00:51:04,531 The whole world is watching! 842 00:51:04,663 --> 00:51:06,568 The whole world is watching! 843 00:51:06,630 --> 00:51:08,671 The whole world is watching... 844 00:51:40,097 --> 00:51:42,070 If anything, the mood after 845 00:51:42,333 --> 00:51:45,444 the n.I.H. Was even bleaker than the mood before, because we had 846 00:51:45,469 --> 00:51:48,748 no indication that they were gonna change or respond to our 847 00:51:48,773 --> 00:51:52,118 demands, and we had in fact had a meeting with them in Bethesda 848 00:51:52,143 --> 00:51:54,654 after the n.I.H. Action that indicated that there was total 849 00:51:54,679 --> 00:51:57,424 resistance to putting people from the community on the 850 00:51:57,449 --> 00:52:00,226 research committees, to letting the ACT UP observers attend 851 00:52:00,251 --> 00:52:03,830 the meetings, and to open up the meetings so that they weren't secret anymore. 852 00:52:03,855 --> 00:52:05,732 Why should science be shrouded in secrecy? 853 00:52:05,757 --> 00:52:08,467 It's supposed to be based on a free exchange of ideas. 854 00:52:08,492 --> 00:52:10,533 And, so, it was very important 855 00:52:10,795 --> 00:52:14,074 to stage in San Francisco before, again, the global 856 00:52:14,099 --> 00:52:16,842 community of scientists and people working on AIDS, why we 857 00:52:16,867 --> 00:52:20,746 had been at the n.I.H., why the U.S. system wasn't working out, 858 00:52:20,771 --> 00:52:24,417 and to reach the people directly that we had reached symbolically 859 00:52:24,442 --> 00:52:26,211 through the n.I.H. Action. 860 00:52:40,724 --> 00:52:42,752 About a hundred protesters have already been arrested at 861 00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:46,281 the international AIDS conference that began today in San Francisco. 862 00:52:46,431 --> 00:52:49,442 Hundreds more are angrily protesting a government policy 863 00:52:49,467 --> 00:52:53,434 they say neglects research and ostracizes victims. 864 00:52:53,838 --> 00:52:56,415 Why don't you do an informational slide first? 865 00:52:56,440 --> 00:53:00,743 "United States has the most discriminatory immigration policies regarding HIV." 866 00:53:00,945 --> 00:53:05,090 I could say, you know, as a way to bridge the, uh, the rift 867 00:53:06,384 --> 00:53:08,862 between the scientific community... all of you... 868 00:53:08,887 --> 00:53:11,989 and the activists, we'd like you to join in some activism. 869 00:53:12,456 --> 00:53:15,168 ...and I've always been painfully aware that in order 870 00:53:15,193 --> 00:53:19,038 for me to beat this virus and live, I will need a great 871 00:53:19,063 --> 00:53:21,036 deal of help from all of you. 872 00:53:22,733 --> 00:53:26,751 Can we all, before it's too late, begin to understand each other? 873 00:53:28,039 --> 00:53:32,136 Will we realize that we share similar motivations? 874 00:53:33,143 --> 00:53:36,322 During the upcoming days, act up New York will be handing 875 00:53:36,347 --> 00:53:39,793 out our AIDS treatment agenda, which includes a list of 876 00:53:39,818 --> 00:53:43,897 99 drugs that we believe could be ready for small phase-one 877 00:53:43,922 --> 00:53:45,691 studies this year or next. 878 00:53:48,259 --> 00:53:53,108 However, from your side, we're being constantly told to butt out. 879 00:53:54,532 --> 00:53:56,573 On my side, the level of anger 880 00:53:57,335 --> 00:54:01,212 and frustration is reaching such a point that attitudes claiming 881 00:54:01,873 --> 00:54:06,825 that all of you are uncaring and in it for greed are now widespread. 882 00:54:08,679 --> 00:54:11,950 While at times we may offend you, remember as well that 883 00:54:12,684 --> 00:54:14,725 like you, ACT UP has succeeded 884 00:54:15,420 --> 00:54:19,471 in prolonging the lives of thousands of people living with HIV disease. 885 00:54:24,762 --> 00:54:29,552 I would like to be joined in front of the stage by my fellow AIDS activists. 886 00:54:30,300 --> 00:54:31,797 Would you all come up? 887 00:54:32,503 --> 00:54:34,680 At this moment, there are others 888 00:54:35,606 --> 00:54:39,518 just like us who are trying to get into this conference but are 889 00:54:39,543 --> 00:54:42,777 being barred by the Billy clubs of San Francisco police. 890 00:54:43,847 --> 00:54:46,558 And there are still others like us who are trying to get through 891 00:54:46,583 --> 00:54:50,094 customs at the San Francisco airport, but are being detained 892 00:54:50,121 --> 00:54:52,094 instead because they are gay. 893 00:54:52,923 --> 00:54:55,830 There's a man that could have prevented these absurdities. 894 00:54:55,960 --> 00:55:00,164 This man has said that he would like to see a kinder, gentler nation. 895 00:55:00,931 --> 00:55:03,208 If you believe that the immigration policy barring 896 00:55:03,233 --> 00:55:06,112 people living with HIV disease from entering this country is 897 00:55:06,137 --> 00:55:10,180 useless as a health policy and discriminatory as well, please 898 00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:12,281 stand now and remain standing. 899 00:55:16,581 --> 00:55:19,672 Join us in vocalizing our collective anger. 900 00:55:19,951 --> 00:55:24,181 Join us in a chant against the man who could bring down the I.N.S. Barriers. 901 00:55:24,255 --> 00:55:27,967 Join us in a chant against the man who has decided to show his 902 00:55:27,992 --> 00:55:31,567 commitment to fighting AIDS by refusing to be here today. 903 00:55:31,829 --> 00:55:35,632 Instead, he is at this very moment in north Carolina, 904 00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:39,811 attending a fundraiser for the homophobic author of the I.N.S. 905 00:55:39,836 --> 00:55:43,338 Barriers, that pig in the senate known as Jesse helms... 906 00:55:44,641 --> 00:55:46,138 Join us in this chant: 907 00:55:46,311 --> 00:55:49,434 300,000 dead from AIDS, where is George? 908 00:55:50,213 --> 00:55:53,612 300,000 dead from AIDS, where is George? 909 00:55:54,552 --> 00:55:57,941 300,000 dead from AIDS, where is George? 910 00:55:58,623 --> 00:56:02,013 300,000 dead from AIDS, where is George? 911 00:56:03,293 --> 00:56:06,501 You can all now consider yourselves members of ACT UP. 912 00:56:15,172 --> 00:56:17,282 One of the things that happened in San Francisco was 913 00:56:17,307 --> 00:56:20,612 that we found out we had won some of our n.I.H. Demands. 914 00:56:21,311 --> 00:56:24,056 Fauci came up to me and said, "we had a meeting, we decided 915 00:56:24,081 --> 00:56:26,259 that we're gonna put you guys on all the committees, and we're 916 00:56:26,284 --> 00:56:28,094 gonna let your observers go to the meetings, and the meetings 917 00:56:28,119 --> 00:56:29,561 won't be secret anymore." 918 00:56:29,586 --> 00:56:35,728 Never again... could any of this be done without taking 919 00:56:37,228 --> 00:56:40,402 people with AIDS and their advocates into consideration. 920 00:56:40,998 --> 00:56:45,984 This would be public business from now on. 921 00:56:46,404 --> 00:56:49,275 You know, we should all be going through the bushes 922 00:56:49,340 --> 00:56:51,155 like this, like sticking our heads up... 923 00:56:52,809 --> 00:56:54,619 ...it was beginning to feel a little different because we'd 924 00:56:54,644 --> 00:56:57,255 spent all the time up until then being on the outside, sort of 925 00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,159 beating on the doors and trying to get in, and now they actually 926 00:57:00,184 --> 00:57:01,851 wanted to hear what we had to say. 927 00:57:18,802 --> 00:57:20,843 We brought them in at Merck. 928 00:57:21,204 --> 00:57:24,449 We made... we made a very, uh, specific effort to bring those 929 00:57:24,474 --> 00:57:27,548 individuals in so that they would see what it is that we 930 00:57:27,577 --> 00:57:29,697 were doing... or trying to do from the very beginning. 931 00:57:29,713 --> 00:57:33,092 This was really fantastic stuff because we were sitting 932 00:57:33,117 --> 00:57:35,226 down with them, and... sometimes 933 00:57:35,820 --> 00:57:39,297 from the very earliest stages of development of a drug... 934 00:57:39,322 --> 00:57:44,015 and helping them plot out their strategy toward, uh, designing clinical trials. 935 00:57:44,327 --> 00:57:46,806 The chemists who had worked on the project, a bunch... 936 00:57:46,831 --> 00:57:50,176 uh, couple chemists said, "let's look at all the aspartic 937 00:57:50,201 --> 00:57:52,645 protease inhibitors that we have on the shelf." 938 00:57:52,670 --> 00:57:56,961 And they tested 'em and they found a few molecules that actually worked. 939 00:57:57,007 --> 00:57:59,988 The challenge was is now you had these molecules that were really 940 00:58:00,010 --> 00:58:04,686 good inhibitors in your assay, which is just in a test tube. 941 00:58:04,782 --> 00:58:07,326 When you put it into animals they just would never work 942 00:58:07,351 --> 00:58:09,472 or they would never get absorbed by your system. 943 00:58:09,719 --> 00:58:11,864 And I remember being very disappointed 'cause I had to 944 00:58:11,889 --> 00:58:14,433 share this information with sort of my own personal view, 945 00:58:14,458 --> 00:58:17,103 this is gonna be a lot more difficult than, 946 00:58:17,128 --> 00:58:18,682 you know, we thought it was gonna be 947 00:58:18,708 --> 00:58:20,572 originally, and in fact may not be possible. 948 00:58:20,597 --> 00:58:24,716 And Bill Bahlman said, "take a break, pick yourself up and go back at it." 949 00:58:25,068 --> 00:58:28,147 If he and his colleagues and his friends around the table can 950 00:58:28,172 --> 00:58:31,217 take that attitude and do that, I remember saying to myself, 951 00:58:31,242 --> 00:58:34,252 "Emilio, you've got no right to say to yourself, 'I don't know 952 00:58:34,277 --> 00:58:36,318 if I can do this, ' all right?" 953 00:58:36,347 --> 00:58:37,912 And... so, off we went. 954 00:58:39,050 --> 00:58:40,683 And we kept going at it. 955 00:58:41,318 --> 00:58:44,486 We're spending $4 billion a year on AIDS research. 956 00:58:44,822 --> 00:58:47,467 When you consider that on a per-capita basis for... compared 957 00:58:47,492 --> 00:58:50,770 to heart disease or cancer, it's an awful lot. 958 00:58:50,795 --> 00:58:54,007 Almost nothing stops George Bush from a round of golf. 959 00:58:54,297 --> 00:58:57,043 He's played nearly every day... and sometimes twice a day... 960 00:58:57,068 --> 00:58:58,905 during his August vacation. 961 00:59:02,039 --> 00:59:05,031 ??I'll be glad when you're dead, you rascal, you ?? 968 00:59:05,143 --> 00:59:06,163 ??rascal, you ?? 969 00:59:06,277 --> 00:59:07,219 ??I'll be laughin' 962 00:59:07,244 --> 00:59:09,191 when you're in your grave, you dog ?? 971 00:59:09,380 --> 00:59:10,264 ??dirty dog ?? 972 00:59:10,681 --> 00:59:12,391 ??when you're dead and in your grave ?? 973 00:59:12,416 --> 00:59:14,493 ??no more ravioli will you crave... ?? 974 00:59:14,518 --> 00:59:17,130 If the message is research, I would say please 963 00:59:17,155 --> 00:59:20,565 talk to Dr. Fauci and others at the national institute of health 964 00:59:20,590 --> 00:59:25,054 who would tell you that, uh, we're doing pretty well in funding of research. 965 00:59:25,829 --> 00:59:26,917 ??..dirty dog ?? 978 00:59:26,998 --> 00:59:29,342 ??I invite you to my house for a meal ?? 979 00:59:29,367 --> 00:59:31,661 ??all my meatballs you tried to steal ?? 980 00:59:31,936 --> 00:59:33,977 ??mm... you're a devil, yeah ?? 981 00:59:50,188 --> 00:59:54,497 We've got to factor in the sensitivity of those of us 966 00:59:58,029 --> 01:00:02,003 who feel that there's a spiritual and moral aspect to 967 01:00:03,833 --> 01:00:08,290 this playing to the homosexual, lesbian crowd. 968 01:00:09,472 --> 01:00:11,859 It makes it different from anything else. 969 01:00:13,277 --> 01:00:13,977 Oh, shh-. 970 01:00:14,077 --> 01:00:16,849 I wish they'd shut their mouths and go to work 971 01:00:16,981 --> 01:00:20,092 and keep their private matters to themselves and get their 972 01:00:20,117 --> 01:00:22,228 mentality out of their crotches. 973 01:00:22,253 --> 01:00:23,795 I'm here today because Jesse helms is the devil. 974 01:00:23,820 --> 01:00:27,465 Jesse helms has worked for years to do as much as he possibly can 975 01:00:27,490 --> 01:00:29,444 to ensure the continuance of the AIDS epidemic. 976 01:00:29,626 --> 01:00:33,505 The disease is spreading because of him, and people are dying because of him. 977 01:00:33,530 --> 01:00:36,808 This is an educational effort, it's not a violation of people's property rights. 978 01:00:36,833 --> 01:00:39,744 We've been very careful that absolutely no damage is done, 979 01:00:39,769 --> 01:00:43,292 and if any damage is done, whatever it is, we'll be happy to pay for it. 980 01:00:43,507 --> 01:00:46,093 We have the money with us to pay for it. 981 01:00:47,210 --> 01:00:49,054 You guys don't want to tangle with these people 'cause 982 01:00:49,079 --> 01:00:51,714 you don't want to get AIDS, I know, but what's next? 983 01:00:51,882 --> 01:00:53,038 Come on, get out. 984 01:00:53,617 --> 01:00:56,493 If they would keep their mouths shut and go about 985 01:00:56,519 --> 01:00:59,627 their business with whatever their sexual orientation is, 986 01:00:59,956 --> 01:01:02,637 nobody would ever say a word and we wouldn't know anything about it. 987 01:01:02,693 --> 01:01:05,666 But, no, they march in the streets, and they defy you to 988 01:01:06,530 --> 01:01:08,027 say anything about it. 989 01:01:08,164 --> 01:01:10,308 Well, they don't like me and I don't like them. 990 01:01:10,333 --> 01:01:11,476 Back off the property. 991 01:01:11,501 --> 01:01:14,172 Bunch of 'em climbed up on my house in Arlington 992 01:01:14,538 --> 01:01:16,375 and hoisted about a 35-foot 993 01:01:16,974 --> 01:01:21,095 canvas, uh, condom one day in protest of me. 994 01:01:23,347 --> 01:01:26,055 Fight AIDS! Fight AIDS, fight AIDS, fight! 995 01:01:26,983 --> 01:01:30,243 ??I'll be glad when you're dead, you rascal, you. ?? 1012 01:01:33,623 --> 01:01:35,801 Sir, when we started this colloquy, I thought I was 996 01:01:35,826 --> 01:01:38,554 on your side, particularly on the first amendment. 997 01:01:39,563 --> 01:01:41,473 And under the first amendment, people don't have to shut their 998 01:01:41,498 --> 01:01:43,044 mouths, they have a right to speak. 999 01:01:44,367 --> 01:01:46,340 Well, uh... they can speak, 1000 01:01:47,871 --> 01:01:49,504 uh, just so long as, uh, 1001 01:01:50,273 --> 01:01:52,694 they don't offend anybody else, uh, I suppose. 1002 01:01:59,215 --> 01:02:02,470 Make sure your second coming is a safe one. 1003 01:02:06,056 --> 01:02:06,872 Use condoms. 1004 01:02:08,458 --> 01:02:10,427 - ...are you shooting? - Yeah. 1005 01:02:11,128 --> 01:02:12,489 I just turned it on. 1006 01:02:15,199 --> 01:02:16,151 Okay, rolling. 1007 01:02:21,938 --> 01:02:22,947 Tell him we're rolling. 1008 01:02:22,972 --> 01:02:24,183 The machine is rolling. 1009 01:02:24,208 --> 01:02:25,876 You can start talking now, honey. 1010 01:02:26,510 --> 01:02:28,644 Oh, I didn't know she meant now. 1011 01:02:30,047 --> 01:02:34,059 What I was gonna say was I just love, I love so much to go up to 1012 01:02:34,719 --> 01:02:40,661 the 10th floor because no one ever had explained to me that 1013 01:02:42,726 --> 01:02:46,337 there was going to be light again in the world and that the 1014 01:02:47,097 --> 01:02:49,199 whole world wasn't going to be dark. 1015 01:02:51,469 --> 01:02:55,926 Some great challenges face us as young people. 1016 01:02:56,940 --> 01:02:58,709 We're in our 20s, and, and 1017 01:03:00,110 --> 01:03:03,349 this is the challenge that's been placed in front of me. 1018 01:03:04,581 --> 01:03:06,622 And, who knows, little camera. 1019 01:03:07,351 --> 01:03:11,719 Lots of other blind, deaf men have lived happy lives. 1020 01:03:14,190 --> 01:03:18,489 There are, there are many years to come, let's hope. 1021 01:03:22,099 --> 01:03:22,899 So... 1022 01:03:26,503 --> 01:03:27,555 What the hell? 1023 01:03:28,072 --> 01:03:30,019 Life is worth living... Isn't it? 1024 01:03:42,219 --> 01:03:44,417 The death rate just kept on climbing. 1025 01:03:47,257 --> 01:03:50,363 We realized that science really was up against a brick wall. 1026 01:03:51,429 --> 01:03:53,672 We kept getting new drugs approved to prevent 1027 01:03:53,697 --> 01:03:57,356 opportunistic infections, and then somebody would just get another infection. 1028 01:04:30,668 --> 01:04:33,813 So, Peter, where are we going? 1029 01:04:33,838 --> 01:04:38,921 We're gonna be going to the headquarters of daiichi pharmaceutical companies of Japan. 1030 01:04:39,943 --> 01:04:44,123 This is their U.S. headquarters, and, uh, we're blockading their 1031 01:04:44,148 --> 01:04:46,325 offices because they have a drug 1032 01:04:46,650 --> 01:04:50,795 that's important both to AIDS activists and cancer activists, 1033 01:04:51,688 --> 01:04:57,499 specifically, uh, breast cancer, um, that they've been dragging 1034 01:04:58,195 --> 01:05:01,661 their feet on for over two years now, and, uh, we don't 1035 01:05:02,099 --> 01:05:04,276 understand why, but we certainly 1036 01:05:05,235 --> 01:05:08,411 are gonna try to let them understand why we're concerned. 1037 01:05:09,139 --> 01:05:11,851 ...and, everybody...wait for you at the end of the hall. 1038 01:05:11,876 --> 01:05:13,223 Just wait outside the elevators. 1039 01:05:14,378 --> 01:05:15,078 Shh... 1040 01:05:16,813 --> 01:05:17,513 Hey. 1041 01:05:17,780 --> 01:05:19,257 Hi, we're with ACT UP. 1042 01:05:19,282 --> 01:05:22,552 We're doing an act of civil disobedience, please remain calm. 1043 01:05:24,387 --> 01:05:26,156 Jim, it's Peter, we're in. 1044 01:05:26,456 --> 01:05:27,749 Send all the press. 1045 01:05:28,692 --> 01:05:30,848 Hello, we're from ACT UP New York. 1046 01:05:39,936 --> 01:05:42,413 You already have the blood of several thousand people on your 1047 01:05:42,438 --> 01:05:46,114 hands, and those of us like me who have Kaposi's sarcoma are 1048 01:05:46,143 --> 01:05:49,255 gonna die, and we are here until we get arrested. 1049 01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:52,090 You seem to know nothing about the actual details of the 1050 01:05:52,115 --> 01:05:53,225 development of this drug. 1051 01:05:53,250 --> 01:05:54,951 Maybe you're just not telling us. 1052 01:05:55,119 --> 01:05:57,820 Mr. Borsic, have you scheduled a meeting with the F.D.A.? 1053 01:05:58,155 --> 01:05:59,130 Yeah, as soon as we can. 1054 01:05:59,155 --> 01:06:01,567 We have helped many companies through this process. 1055 01:06:01,592 --> 01:06:05,036 We can take a drug from your test tube to the market 1056 01:06:05,061 --> 01:06:08,406 in under two years if you work with us, and we will pave the 1057 01:06:08,431 --> 01:06:11,228 way for you with the food and drug administration. 1058 01:06:11,501 --> 01:06:14,982 But, but this total reluctance on your part is gonna get you nowhere. 1059 01:06:15,139 --> 01:06:17,116 ...have been used in people for 30 years. 1060 01:06:17,141 --> 01:06:18,616 It'll end up killing us, all right? 1061 01:06:18,641 --> 01:06:20,722 See this dark mark on my forehead? 1062 01:06:20,978 --> 01:06:22,611 That's Kaposi's sarcoma. 1063 01:06:23,480 --> 01:06:24,704 It's gonna spread! 1064 01:06:24,847 --> 01:06:26,140 It's gonna kill me. 1065 01:06:26,317 --> 01:06:27,659 You coming to my funeral? 1066 01:06:27,684 --> 01:06:30,035 Because you're the man fucking responsible. 1067 01:06:30,219 --> 01:06:33,073 You are my murderer in your shirt and tie. 1068 01:06:38,161 --> 01:06:41,232 Do you think that you'll live to see a cure? 1069 01:06:41,398 --> 01:06:42,098 No. 1070 01:06:42,498 --> 01:06:43,198 I don't. 1071 01:06:44,034 --> 01:06:45,683 Do you think that you'll live? 1072 01:06:47,804 --> 01:06:48,504 No. 1073 01:06:49,873 --> 01:06:50,573 No. 1074 01:06:50,773 --> 01:06:52,814 You expect to die from this? 1075 01:07:08,458 --> 01:07:12,404 The anger just mounted and mounted and mounted the more people who were dying. 1076 01:07:12,429 --> 01:07:13,858 Once a week we met... 1077 01:07:15,632 --> 01:07:18,210 And at that meeting a lot of people came who were just 1078 01:07:18,235 --> 01:07:21,403 terrified they weren't gonna be alive even the next week. 1079 01:07:22,072 --> 01:07:23,919 What can we do, how can we get there? 1080 01:07:24,574 --> 01:07:30,340 I think ACT UP's anger turned in after having been directed out so long. 1081 01:07:31,815 --> 01:07:33,380 In its first few years, 1082 01:07:34,318 --> 01:07:37,791 treatment and data pretty much got everything it wanted from 1083 01:07:38,021 --> 01:07:39,858 the floor of ACT UP, but as 1084 01:07:41,125 --> 01:07:45,093 treatment and data was becoming more and more technical, 1085 01:07:45,496 --> 01:07:49,140 there were a lot of people in the general membership of ACT UP 1086 01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:54,912 that saw that as an elite, and that maybe it would be better if 1087 01:07:56,273 --> 01:07:58,382 that elite was pulled in a bit. 1088 01:07:58,942 --> 01:08:03,318 There was a fear, I think, that we were getting too close 1089 01:08:03,847 --> 01:08:08,166 to the people in power, that we would compromise our own principles. 1090 01:08:08,485 --> 01:08:12,763 And the people who were more interested in the social issues 1091 01:08:13,090 --> 01:08:14,833 became uncomfortable with that. 1092 01:08:14,858 --> 01:08:17,730 I remember this very divisive moment where, um, you know, 1093 01:08:18,127 --> 01:08:20,772 there was a proposal for moratorium on meeting with 1094 01:08:20,797 --> 01:08:22,770 drug companies, and someone... 1095 01:08:24,001 --> 01:08:27,079 for six months... and there was a huge and impassioned debate 1096 01:08:27,104 --> 01:08:31,215 over it, and someone said... a woman who was not HIV-positive 1097 01:08:31,574 --> 01:08:34,152 said, "well, it's not like it's for the rest of your life." 1098 01:08:34,177 --> 01:08:36,218 And for a lot of people in the 1099 01:08:36,913 --> 01:08:38,795 room, it was the rest of their life. 1100 01:08:39,182 --> 01:08:39,882 ACT UP! 1101 01:08:40,050 --> 01:08:40,798 Fight back! 1102 01:08:40,984 --> 01:08:41,732 Fight AIDS! 1103 01:08:41,851 --> 01:08:44,696 There were inevitable splits in priorities. 1104 01:08:46,055 --> 01:08:47,455 And you know quite well... I know. 1105 01:08:47,557 --> 01:08:49,982 And it was completely left out of the n.I.H. 1106 01:08:50,027 --> 01:08:51,115 Research agenda. 1107 01:08:51,494 --> 01:08:52,194 I agree. 1108 01:08:52,229 --> 01:08:53,029 I, I... 1109 01:08:53,697 --> 01:08:58,138 I remember a lot of dirty tricks that happened, and a lot of fear within the 1110 01:08:59,435 --> 01:09:03,553 organization that the various factions had done this to each other. 1111 01:09:03,673 --> 01:09:08,131 Mark Harrington, Mark Harrington, there's a video camera here now. 1112 01:09:08,945 --> 01:09:11,923 Would you like to take an oath that you will not write nasty 1113 01:09:11,948 --> 01:09:13,853 anonymous letters to people? 1114 01:09:13,951 --> 01:09:16,160 I've been getting some hate letters too, but those are 1115 01:09:16,185 --> 01:09:19,097 unsigned. I don't ever, I don't ever... so you'll keep on 1116 01:09:19,122 --> 01:09:20,865 writing nasty letters to people? 1117 01:09:20,890 --> 01:09:26,024 There were a lot of charges in the midst of that, of sabotage and threats. 1118 01:09:26,329 --> 01:09:29,181 Our last speaker is, is Larry Kramer. 1119 01:09:30,567 --> 01:09:32,216 Why didn't you answer the charges? 1120 01:09:32,668 --> 01:09:34,913 Bill, you're gonna have a chance to talk, 1121 01:09:34,938 --> 01:09:36,914 all right, everybody's... don't lecture me, 1122 01:09:36,939 --> 01:09:39,654 you stupid, lazy, incompetent shithead! 1123 01:09:39,710 --> 01:09:41,759 Bill, everybody got the flyer... 1124 01:09:43,881 --> 01:09:46,023 ...you can't just lick his ass before he talks! 1125 01:09:46,048 --> 01:09:48,504 Shut the fuck up and let him answer! 1126 01:09:48,985 --> 01:09:51,262 Look, there are a lot of people in the audience who want 1127 01:09:51,287 --> 01:09:54,432 to ask and talk about treatment, and I think it's important that 1128 01:09:54,457 --> 01:09:56,090 we allow that to happen. 1129 01:09:56,527 --> 01:09:58,270 Oh, we're gonna dictate free speech now? 1130 01:09:58,295 --> 01:10:00,944 You're the one who's interfering with speech right now. 1131 01:10:01,230 --> 01:10:02,523 Go back to G.M.H.C. 1132 01:10:02,565 --> 01:10:04,985 Or whatever AIDS pimp operation is paying you. 1133 01:10:05,101 --> 01:10:07,615 You're making the same point George Bush made... - plague! 1134 01:10:08,604 --> 01:10:10,793 We are in the middle of a fucking plague! 1135 01:10:11,341 --> 01:10:13,042 And you behave like this! 1136 01:10:20,751 --> 01:10:21,451 Plague! 1137 01:10:23,386 --> 01:10:25,495 40 million infected people is a 1138 01:10:26,722 --> 01:10:27,742 fucking plague! 1139 01:10:33,596 --> 01:10:38,173 We are in the worst shape we have ever, ever, ever been in! 1140 01:10:40,570 --> 01:10:43,876 All those pills we're shoveling down our throats, forget it! 1141 01:10:45,708 --> 01:10:49,087 ACT UP has been taken over by a lunatic fringe, they can't get 1142 01:10:49,112 --> 01:10:52,790 together, nobody agrees with anything, all we can do is field 1143 01:10:52,850 --> 01:10:54,836 a couple hundred people in a demonstration! 1144 01:10:55,418 --> 01:10:57,739 That's not gonna make anybody pay attention! 1145 01:11:00,157 --> 01:11:02,458 Not until we get millions out there! 1146 01:11:03,793 --> 01:11:05,222 And we can't do that! 1147 01:11:05,462 --> 01:11:08,961 All we do is pick at each other and yell at each other! 1148 01:11:09,565 --> 01:11:11,402 And I say to you in year 10 1149 01:11:12,735 --> 01:11:17,212 the same thing I said to you in 1981 when there were 41 cases. 1150 01:11:21,043 --> 01:11:25,117 Until we get our acts together, all of us, we are as good as 1151 01:11:28,851 --> 01:11:29,551 dead. 1152 01:11:33,023 --> 01:11:37,233 In the end, the treatment and data guys... Peter, Garance, Mark, and some 1153 01:11:37,627 --> 01:11:42,240 others... split off and formed their own separate organization. 1154 01:11:42,599 --> 01:11:46,770 Tag was one of the little Mercury balls that flew off the main body of ACT UP. 1155 01:11:47,537 --> 01:11:51,265 A more sort of "think tank" type project came about. 1156 01:11:53,176 --> 01:11:56,088 Mr. Harrington, a tag member, educated at Harvard 1157 01:11:56,113 --> 01:12:00,251 college, and he has worked for a long time on experimental 1158 01:12:01,051 --> 01:12:04,056 treatments for the disease, and and also the basic science. 1159 01:12:04,087 --> 01:12:06,060 And Mr. Gonsalves was born in 1160 01:12:07,390 --> 01:12:11,608 long island and attended tufts university, also a tag member. 1161 01:12:11,728 --> 01:12:15,429 Um, I guess I can do nothing better than to turn this 1162 01:12:16,332 --> 01:12:18,410 conference over to my speakers. 1163 01:12:18,435 --> 01:12:21,543 I noticed that you're both sitting up there in suits 1164 01:12:22,338 --> 01:12:27,352 and ties. Do you feel that your approach is better than circling 1165 01:12:29,011 --> 01:12:31,052 n.I.H. Buildings and so forth? 1166 01:12:32,649 --> 01:12:36,294 I think that we like to keep our options open, but it's silly 1167 01:12:36,420 --> 01:12:38,461 to risk arrest and the hassles 1168 01:12:39,088 --> 01:12:42,296 that are intendant upon it if you can get serious attention 1169 01:12:42,458 --> 01:12:44,612 and negotiations going with other measures. 1170 01:12:46,128 --> 01:12:50,051 We just released a report, a critique of all the n.I.H.'S AIDS programs. 1171 01:12:50,167 --> 01:12:52,643 The research is spread out over 12 agencies, there's no 1172 01:12:52,668 --> 01:12:54,752 coordination, there's a lot of duplication. 1173 01:12:55,271 --> 01:12:56,768 There's no leadership. 1174 01:12:56,974 --> 01:12:59,250 The budget is shrinking and shrinking as cases mount, 1175 01:12:59,275 --> 01:13:02,353 and the president needs to be blamed, as well as the congress 1176 01:13:02,378 --> 01:13:06,223 who cut the entire n.I.H. Budget by $150 million two weeks ago. 1177 01:13:06,248 --> 01:13:08,560 Our recommendations, I think, are gonna require some 1178 01:13:08,585 --> 01:13:10,626 legislation, um, so we have to 1179 01:13:11,253 --> 01:13:15,239 go to our friends on the hill and see what wonders they can work for us. 1180 01:13:26,369 --> 01:13:29,714 We had this one particular compound that looked like it may 1181 01:13:29,739 --> 01:13:31,644 have had the potency and the 1182 01:13:31,975 --> 01:13:35,730 physical properties that we wanted, and it could be a possible drug. 1183 01:13:35,912 --> 01:13:38,423 We said, you know, let's put in HIV-infected individuals 1184 01:13:38,448 --> 01:13:40,025 and let's see what happens. 1185 01:13:40,050 --> 01:13:43,128 So, we went into HIV-infected individuals with this drug 1186 01:13:43,153 --> 01:13:46,630 called crixivan, and you could see a very substantial drop just 1187 01:13:46,655 --> 01:13:50,085 with the one protease inhibitor, you could see a very substantial drop in virus load. 1188 01:13:50,327 --> 01:13:51,636 So that was the first week. 1189 01:13:51,661 --> 01:13:53,704 The second week was very disappointing, because what we 1190 01:13:53,729 --> 01:13:58,694 saw in the second week was in fact, the virus load coming right back up again. 1191 01:13:58,902 --> 01:13:59,854 One exception. 1192 01:14:00,203 --> 01:14:03,976 There was one patient that, um, patient 143, I believe, 1193 01:14:04,440 --> 01:14:06,277 was his name... his number... 1194 01:14:06,676 --> 01:14:09,588 that the virus went down and stayed down. 1195 01:14:09,613 --> 01:14:11,225 That told us that it was possible. 1196 01:14:12,282 --> 01:14:15,660 If it can happen in one, then by definition it can happen 1197 01:14:15,685 --> 01:14:18,730 in everyone, you just need to figure out how to do it. 1198 01:14:18,755 --> 01:14:20,875 That puts you in a completely different place and in a 1199 01:14:20,890 --> 01:14:22,667 completely different state of mind. 1200 01:14:22,692 --> 01:14:25,637 So then the question became, Okay, now what do we need to do 1201 01:14:25,662 --> 01:14:27,635 in order to make it possible? 1202 01:14:30,100 --> 01:14:34,595 This is the beginning of the primary season to elect the next president. 1203 01:14:34,871 --> 01:14:38,581 We want to send a message to all of the candidates... we have not 1204 01:14:38,742 --> 01:14:43,320 seen them actively address the AIDS plague, and we thought 1205 01:14:43,613 --> 01:14:47,844 it would be best to send a message by voting with our feet in the streets. 1206 01:14:48,251 --> 01:14:51,814 I want to call for a massive march on Washington. 1207 01:14:53,090 --> 01:14:56,344 The weekend the AIDS quilt is gonna be there. 1208 01:14:56,626 --> 01:15:00,027 We have got to surround the white house with people 1209 01:15:00,463 --> 01:15:02,368 concerned about AIDS to push 1210 01:15:03,265 --> 01:15:05,170 bush out of the white house! 1211 01:15:11,140 --> 01:15:13,744 Last night a man with AIDS heckled Clinton, 1212 01:15:13,844 --> 01:15:17,524 charging that he had a bad record on fighting AIDS in Arkansas. 1213 01:15:17,780 --> 01:15:21,935 When voter Bob Rafsky met Bill Clinton, it was anything but pleasant. 1214 01:15:22,118 --> 01:15:25,835 We're dying in this state, what are you going to do about AIDS? 1215 01:15:27,224 --> 01:15:32,145 First of all, it will become a part of my obsession as president. 1216 01:15:34,296 --> 01:15:36,977 And that's why I'm running for president, to do something about it. 1217 01:15:38,001 --> 01:15:39,770 Will you just calm down? 1218 01:15:41,671 --> 01:15:42,827 I feel your pain! 1219 01:15:43,939 --> 01:15:47,017 I feel your pain, but if you want to attack me personally, 1220 01:15:47,042 --> 01:15:49,286 you're no better than Jerry brown and all the rest of these 1221 01:15:49,311 --> 01:15:51,388 people who say whatever sounds good in the moment. 1222 01:15:51,413 --> 01:15:54,659 If you want something to be done, you ask me a question, you listen. 1223 01:15:54,684 --> 01:15:57,027 If you don't agree with me, go support somebody else for 1224 01:15:57,052 --> 01:15:59,231 president, but quit talking to me like that. 1225 01:15:59,256 --> 01:16:02,339 This is not a matter of personal attack, it's a matter of human loss. 1226 01:16:04,927 --> 01:16:07,857 I came here tonight because I'm dying from AIDS. 1227 01:16:08,398 --> 01:16:11,308 And it doesn't matter to me who the next president is if they 1228 01:16:11,333 --> 01:16:14,983 don't change 11 years of government neglect of this epidemic. 1229 01:16:15,671 --> 01:16:16,337 Is this on? 1230 01:16:16,338 --> 01:16:17,290 This isn't on. 1231 01:16:17,740 --> 01:16:19,373 Um, Okay, first off, um, 1232 01:16:21,545 --> 01:16:27,462 what happened this week was AIDS became an issue in this campaign. 1233 01:16:34,623 --> 01:16:36,205 I'd like to call down Bob Rafsky. 1234 01:16:58,280 --> 01:16:58,980 ACT UP! 1235 01:16:59,349 --> 01:17:00,097 Fight back! 1236 01:17:00,449 --> 01:17:01,197 Fight AIDS! 1237 01:17:01,984 --> 01:17:02,684 ACT UP! 1238 01:17:02,985 --> 01:17:03,733 Fight back! 1239 01:17:04,220 --> 01:17:04,968 Fight AIDS! 1240 01:17:09,158 --> 01:17:13,126 Uh, never debate a Rhodes scholar... it gets you into a world of trouble. 1241 01:17:14,430 --> 01:17:18,276 It looks like what we have to do is to keep forcing these clowns 1242 01:17:18,301 --> 01:17:20,911 to say the right thing so that if one of them happens to become 1243 01:17:20,936 --> 01:17:24,382 president, we can hold them accountable for doing the right thing. 1244 01:17:24,407 --> 01:17:25,107 Yeah. 1245 01:17:25,507 --> 01:17:28,352 But I just... it's always important to say that we all 1246 01:17:28,377 --> 01:17:31,990 know that the names of the people who might save our lives 1247 01:17:32,015 --> 01:17:34,671 are not Bill Clinton and Jerry brown, etc. 1248 01:17:34,884 --> 01:17:37,462 The names of the people who might save our lives are 1249 01:17:37,487 --> 01:17:40,245 iris long, Mark Harrington, Peter Staley, etc. 1250 01:17:40,756 --> 01:17:42,066 And they're the ones who will be 1251 01:17:42,091 --> 01:17:46,885 remembered as the heroes of this epidemic, as well as those who have gone before. 1252 01:17:50,899 --> 01:17:52,435 ??..and he smells like one, too. ?? 1270 01:17:52,668 --> 01:17:55,000 Well, I haven't showered, so I'm not surprised... 1253 01:17:55,805 --> 01:18:00,480 No, I've just been writing and I was up at 5 A.M. yesterday. 1254 01:18:00,542 --> 01:18:03,646 This is Bob's birthday, July 22nd, 1992. 1255 01:18:06,949 --> 01:18:08,717 - Ready for the pyrotechnics? - Yes! 1256 01:18:08,952 --> 01:18:09,995 Nathaniel, help. 1257 01:18:10,020 --> 01:18:11,120 No! 1258 01:18:12,087 --> 01:18:12,987 Yay! 1259 01:18:14,658 --> 01:18:15,610 Lydia E. Rios. 1260 01:18:18,127 --> 01:18:19,071 Steve H. 1261 01:18:21,730 --> 01:18:23,295 My friends David Evans, 1262 01:18:25,801 --> 01:18:27,978 Nicolas kaiser, George Marshall, 1263 01:18:31,307 --> 01:18:33,484 and my beloved brother Dennis J. 1264 01:18:35,045 --> 01:18:36,201 Robert R. Hakins. 1265 01:18:39,048 --> 01:18:40,681 Phillip Gregory Ellison. 1266 01:18:42,819 --> 01:18:43,835 Terry Ronan. 1267 01:18:45,822 --> 01:18:46,910 Michael Bennett. 1268 01:18:48,524 --> 01:18:49,604 Ron Field. 1269 01:18:50,827 --> 01:18:51,907 Tina Chow. 1270 01:18:53,262 --> 01:18:54,278 Perry Ellis. 1271 01:18:55,532 --> 01:18:56,620 Freddie Mercury. 1272 01:18:57,766 --> 01:18:58,782 Peter Allen. 1273 01:19:00,470 --> 01:19:06,086 To the thousands of other people who were made to suffer in silence. 1274 01:19:12,981 --> 01:19:15,874 Join ACT UP for a political funeral! 1275 01:19:16,685 --> 01:19:19,100 Meet at the South of the capitol at 1 P.M. 1276 01:19:20,122 --> 01:19:23,972 Give a wake-up call to George Bush and Bill Clinton and Perot. 1277 01:19:31,467 --> 01:19:35,371 I think the quilt itself does good stuff and is moving. 1278 01:19:35,939 --> 01:19:40,049 Still, it's like making something beautiful out of the epidemic, and I felt like doing 1279 01:19:41,444 --> 01:19:43,987 something like this is a way of showing there's nothing beautiful about it. 1280 01:19:44,012 --> 01:19:46,156 You know, this is what I'm left with... I've got a box full 1281 01:19:46,181 --> 01:19:47,491 of ashes and bone chips. 1282 01:19:47,516 --> 01:19:49,261 You know, there's no beauty in that. 1283 01:19:49,918 --> 01:19:53,125 And I felt like a statement like this is like saying "this is 1284 01:19:53,256 --> 01:19:55,302 what George Bush has done," you know? 1285 01:19:55,358 --> 01:19:57,701 This is what him and Ronald Reagan before him have done. 1286 01:19:57,726 --> 01:19:59,536 These are our loved ones and this is what they've been 1287 01:19:59,561 --> 01:20:03,303 reduced to, and we're bringing them to the person who's responsible for their death. 1288 01:20:20,382 --> 01:20:21,130 Fight back! 1289 01:20:21,518 --> 01:20:22,266 Fight AIDS! 1290 01:20:22,519 --> 01:20:24,628 ACT UP, fight back, fight AIDS! 1291 01:20:25,454 --> 01:20:27,563 ACT UP, fight back, fight AIDS! 1292 01:20:28,524 --> 01:20:30,633 ACT UP, fight back, fight AIDS! 1293 01:20:31,594 --> 01:20:32,294 ACT UP! 1294 01:20:32,628 --> 01:20:33,376 Fight back! 1295 01:20:33,430 --> 01:20:34,178 Fight AIDS! 1296 01:20:39,101 --> 01:20:41,012 Bringing the dead to your door! 1297 01:20:41,037 --> 01:20:42,738 We won't take it anymore! 1298 01:20:43,038 --> 01:20:45,016 Bringing the dead to your door! 1299 01:20:45,041 --> 01:20:46,742 We won't take it anymore! 1300 01:20:47,010 --> 01:20:49,020 Bringing the dead to your door! 1301 01:20:49,045 --> 01:20:50,746 We won't take it anymore! 1302 01:20:51,014 --> 01:20:53,123 Bringing the dead to your door! 1303 01:21:38,360 --> 01:21:39,060 ACT UP! 1304 01:21:39,095 --> 01:21:39,843 Fight back! 1305 01:21:40,128 --> 01:21:40,876 Fight AIDS! 1306 01:21:41,430 --> 01:21:42,130 ACT UP! 1307 01:21:47,136 --> 01:21:47,836 ACT UP! 1308 01:21:48,070 --> 01:21:48,818 Fight back! 1309 01:21:49,072 --> 01:21:49,820 Fight AIDS! 1310 01:21:50,073 --> 01:21:50,773 ACT UP! 1311 01:21:51,207 --> 01:21:51,955 Fight back! 1312 01:21:52,041 --> 01:21:52,789 Fight AIDS! 1313 01:21:53,042 --> 01:21:53,742 ACT UP! 1314 01:21:53,909 --> 01:21:54,657 Fight back! 1315 01:21:54,877 --> 01:21:55,625 Fight AIDS! 1316 01:21:55,878 --> 01:21:56,578 ACT UP! 1317 01:21:56,880 --> 01:21:57,628 Fight back! 1318 01:21:57,814 --> 01:21:58,562 Fight AIDS! 1319 01:22:01,251 --> 01:22:03,088 Shame, shame, shame, shame! 1320 01:22:03,786 --> 01:22:05,623 Shame, shame, shame, shame! 1321 01:22:06,421 --> 01:22:08,394 Shame, shame, shame, shame... 1322 01:22:14,697 --> 01:22:15,853 I love you, Mike! 1323 01:22:17,100 --> 01:22:18,256 I love you, Mike! 1324 01:22:44,493 --> 01:22:47,326 Welcome to the first of three debates among the major 1325 01:22:47,564 --> 01:22:51,142 candidates for President of the United States, sponsored by the 1326 01:22:51,167 --> 01:22:53,179 commission on presidential debates. 1327 01:22:53,670 --> 01:22:57,244 Mr. president, yesterday tens of thousands of people paraded 1328 01:22:57,273 --> 01:23:02,133 past the white house to demonstrate their concern about the disease, AIDS. 1329 01:23:02,377 --> 01:23:05,748 A celebrated member of your commission, magic Johnson, 1330 01:23:06,381 --> 01:23:09,602 quit saying that there was too much inaction. 1331 01:23:10,686 --> 01:23:12,262 Where is this widespread feeling 1332 01:23:12,287 --> 01:23:16,100 coming from that your administration is not doing enough about AIDS? 1333 01:23:16,125 --> 01:23:19,436 I can't tell you where it's coming from, but I am very much 1334 01:23:19,628 --> 01:23:21,465 concerned about AIDS, and I 1335 01:23:21,764 --> 01:23:24,508 believe that we've got the best researchers in the world 1336 01:23:24,533 --> 01:23:26,878 out there at n.I.H. Working the problem. 1337 01:23:26,903 --> 01:23:30,236 It's one of the few diseases where behavior matters. 1338 01:23:30,439 --> 01:23:33,250 And I once called on somebody, "well, change your behavior. 1339 01:23:33,275 --> 01:23:38,056 If the behavior you're using, uh, prone to cause AIDS, change the behavior." 1340 01:23:38,081 --> 01:23:41,926 Next thing I know, one of these ACT UP groups is out saying bush 1341 01:23:41,951 --> 01:23:43,361 ought to change his behavior. 1342 01:23:43,386 --> 01:23:45,302 You can't talk about it rationally. 1343 01:24:04,673 --> 01:24:09,041 Let everyone here know that this is not a 1344 01:24:11,381 --> 01:24:16,427 political funeral for Mark Fisher, who wouldn't let us burn 1345 01:24:19,221 --> 01:24:20,718 or bury his courage... 1346 01:24:22,759 --> 01:24:24,936 Or his love for us any more than 1347 01:24:25,895 --> 01:24:30,545 he would let the earth take his body until it was already in flight. 1348 01:24:32,467 --> 01:24:36,838 He asked for this ceremony, not so we could bury him, 1349 01:24:37,340 --> 01:24:40,259 but so we could celebrate his undying anger. 1350 01:24:42,679 --> 01:24:46,783 This isn't a political funeral for Mark, it's a political 1351 01:24:47,449 --> 01:24:50,616 funeral for the man who killed him and so many others, 1352 01:24:52,488 --> 01:24:54,189 and is slowly killing me. 1353 01:24:55,891 --> 01:25:00,057 Whose name curls my tongue and curdles my breath. 1354 01:25:00,997 --> 01:25:05,775 George Bush, we believe you'll be defeated tomorrow because we 1355 01:25:06,868 --> 01:25:10,175 believe there's still some justice left in the universe 1356 01:25:10,672 --> 01:25:14,296 and some compassion left in the American people. 1357 01:25:15,411 --> 01:25:20,223 But whether or not you are, here and now, standing by Mark's 1358 01:25:21,184 --> 01:25:26,826 body, we put this curse on you. Mark's spirit will haunt you 1359 01:25:27,923 --> 01:25:29,760 until the end of your days, 1360 01:25:30,592 --> 01:25:36,281 so that in the moment of your defeat, you'll remember our defeats. 1361 01:25:36,698 --> 01:25:40,471 And in the moment of your death, you'll remember our deaths. 1362 01:25:43,305 --> 01:25:45,482 As for Mark, when the living can 1363 01:25:46,609 --> 01:25:50,632 no longer speak, the dead may speak for them. 1364 01:25:52,247 --> 01:25:54,220 Mark's voice is here with us, 1365 01:25:55,752 --> 01:26:00,531 as is the voice of pericles, who two millennia ago warned the 1366 01:26:01,123 --> 01:26:05,535 Athenian soldiers who didn't have to die, and in whose death 1367 01:26:05,862 --> 01:26:10,504 he was complicit, but who had the nobility to say that their 1368 01:26:11,067 --> 01:26:13,040 memorial was the whole earth. 1369 01:26:14,804 --> 01:26:16,981 Let the whole earth hear us now. 1370 01:26:18,106 --> 01:26:23,543 We beg, we pray, we demand that this epidemic end! 1371 01:26:26,349 --> 01:26:27,982 Not just so we may live, 1372 01:26:30,051 --> 01:26:34,244 but so that Mark's soul may rest in peace at last. 1373 01:26:41,197 --> 01:26:47,529 In anger and in grief, this fight is not over till all of us are saved. 1374 01:26:55,478 --> 01:26:56,378 ACT UP. 1375 01:26:57,046 --> 01:26:57,794 Fight back. 1376 01:26:58,413 --> 01:26:59,161 Fight AIDS. 1377 01:28:36,279 --> 01:28:38,990 The debate over AIDS therapy has reignited with a new 1378 01:28:39,015 --> 01:28:42,921 European study that challenges the effectiveness of A.Z.T., 1379 01:28:43,319 --> 01:28:46,524 the widely prescribed drug used to treat the HIV virus. 1380 01:28:46,588 --> 01:28:49,897 This study disproves what every other study proves, 1381 01:28:50,458 --> 01:28:54,604 is that the drug is at best modest, mostly useless, not good 1382 01:28:54,630 --> 01:28:55,839 for you in the beginning. 1383 01:28:55,864 --> 01:28:59,309 Two other drugs, D.D.I. And d.D.C., were approved 1384 01:28:59,769 --> 01:29:02,612 because they were as good as A.Z.T., which means that they 1385 01:29:02,637 --> 01:29:04,749 might not be very useful either. 1386 01:29:04,774 --> 01:29:09,132 All this is profoundly dispiriting for advocates of people with AIDS. 1387 01:29:09,345 --> 01:29:11,989 We thought we had made some advance in AIDS treatment over 1388 01:29:12,014 --> 01:29:15,827 the last five years, and these studies show that we really haven't. 1389 01:29:15,952 --> 01:29:19,672 Many activists now admit their demands were short-sighted. 1390 01:29:20,055 --> 01:29:24,131 It's been a huge expenditure, a waste of money for the U.S. 1391 01:29:24,193 --> 01:29:28,071 Taxpayer, and it was a naiveté on our part to think that the 1392 01:29:28,096 --> 01:29:31,988 magic bullet was out there, it just had to be tested in humans and, uh... 1393 01:29:34,036 --> 01:29:35,669 Given to us as the cure. 1394 01:29:35,805 --> 01:29:40,070 Many doctors and scientists say the bleak results presented here indicate the U.S. 1395 01:29:40,176 --> 01:29:45,181 Government needs to substantially reorganize the way it conducts AIDS research. 1396 01:29:45,448 --> 01:29:47,625 Robert Bazell, NBC News, Berlin. 1397 01:29:54,090 --> 01:29:57,097 There's been this big crisis at St. Vincent's about the way 1398 01:29:57,493 --> 01:29:59,330 that we talk about the, uh, 1399 01:30:00,762 --> 01:30:02,106 what happened in Berlin. 1400 01:30:02,131 --> 01:30:05,950 Couple of doctors said they were afraid of people committing suicide now. 1401 01:30:06,368 --> 01:30:08,273 I don't feel like, oh, now 1402 01:30:09,505 --> 01:30:13,150 I just... I don't feel oh, now I want to give up, now I want to 1403 01:30:13,175 --> 01:30:14,352 stop living because A.Z.T. 1404 01:30:14,377 --> 01:30:15,461 Doesn't work. 1405 01:30:15,711 --> 01:30:19,476 I've felt forever now that I'm not gonna outlive this epidemic, that I will, 1406 01:30:19,782 --> 01:30:21,124 that I will die from this. 1407 01:30:21,149 --> 01:30:24,428 You know, maybe that is our future, that we're gonna watch each other die. 1408 01:30:24,453 --> 01:30:26,597 It's... that's not a new thought. 1409 01:30:26,622 --> 01:30:29,293 We've been thinking that ever since we started the group. 1410 01:30:29,958 --> 01:30:33,299 The way that the recent spate of deaths is... I don't know, 1411 01:30:34,396 --> 01:30:36,581 it all seems so much more apocalyptic. 1412 01:30:37,432 --> 01:30:39,473 Like the story doesn't seem... 1413 01:30:41,270 --> 01:30:45,717 To have this relationship to effective treatment, or a cure anymore. 1414 01:30:45,841 --> 01:30:47,918 It now seems to have this relationship to death. 1415 01:30:47,943 --> 01:30:49,754 It ends, it ends with everybody dying. 1416 01:30:49,779 --> 01:30:52,480 Will the last person alive in Chelsea please turn out the lights? 1417 01:31:02,625 --> 01:31:05,236 Joining me now is Dr. David Kessler, the commissioner of the 1418 01:31:05,261 --> 01:31:07,234 food and drug administration. 1419 01:31:07,328 --> 01:31:10,705 Dr. Kessler, how excited should we get about this new family of 1420 01:31:10,800 --> 01:31:12,581 drugs, these protease inhibitors? 1421 01:31:12,902 --> 01:31:16,579 I don't want to over-promise, but these are the most potent 1422 01:31:16,604 --> 01:31:19,517 drugs we've seen against the virus. 1423 01:31:19,542 --> 01:31:22,846 I know that you are pushing for faster F.D.A. Approval 1424 01:31:23,011 --> 01:31:25,423 of these drugs, I know that the application has just gone for 1425 01:31:25,448 --> 01:31:28,565 the first of these drugs to the f. D.A... It's still gonna take six months. 1426 01:31:28,684 --> 01:31:32,125 We will turn around that application as quick as ever. 1427 01:31:32,354 --> 01:31:35,532 We're approving drugs in a matter of months these days. 1428 01:31:35,557 --> 01:31:37,802 But you were telling me that's six months, right? 1429 01:31:37,827 --> 01:31:38,869 That's as quick as possible. 1430 01:31:38,894 --> 01:31:41,004 We may be able to do it even a little quicker. 1431 01:31:41,029 --> 01:31:43,273 A split has developed between those who want 1432 01:31:43,298 --> 01:31:46,576 rapid approval based on early indicators of success... 1433 01:31:46,601 --> 01:31:48,716 And the treatment action group, or "tag". 1434 01:31:49,404 --> 01:31:53,463 Tag has asked the F.D.A. To reconsider the accelerated approval process. 1435 01:31:54,243 --> 01:31:56,012 We told the F.D.A., "no, 1436 01:31:56,479 --> 01:31:59,450 the company has asked you to approve that drug too soon. 1437 01:31:59,715 --> 01:32:01,617 They need a little bit more data first." 1438 01:32:02,318 --> 01:32:05,228 Tag is asking the F.D.A. To take a closer look at 1439 01:32:05,253 --> 01:32:07,892 saquinavir, the first protease inhibitor to seek approval. 1440 01:32:08,724 --> 01:32:13,003 We need to make sure we don't repeat the mistake we made with A.Z.T. And D.D.I. 1441 01:32:13,028 --> 01:32:14,804 This is a new class of drugs. 1442 01:32:14,829 --> 01:32:16,734 We need to know if it works. 1443 01:32:17,466 --> 01:32:20,671 ...the battle over early approval of saquinavir was a 1444 01:32:21,636 --> 01:32:24,981 really pivotal moment for treatment activism, and we took 1445 01:32:25,006 --> 01:32:27,115 such shit for it... from within. 1446 01:32:28,610 --> 01:32:30,693 There are a lot of people who do agree that there are 1447 01:32:30,712 --> 01:32:34,742 problems, serious problems the way drug testing and drug trials are run. 1448 01:32:35,251 --> 01:32:37,914 But there are many of us who feel that halting, um, 1449 01:32:39,688 --> 01:32:43,100 accelerated approval is not necessarily the answer. 1450 01:32:43,125 --> 01:32:46,137 Tag made their proposal for this large, simple trial of 1451 01:32:46,162 --> 01:32:48,271 18,000 people that they want to 1452 01:32:48,930 --> 01:32:52,778 put in a placebo control trial where one-third would get placebo. 1453 01:32:53,168 --> 01:32:55,478 They pushed this idea on the F.D.A. At a secret meeting, 1454 01:32:55,503 --> 01:32:57,661 which was not announced to the community. 1455 01:32:59,108 --> 01:33:01,833 This is something we have fought hard and long for. 1456 01:33:02,278 --> 01:33:05,356 We've been arrested to get accelerated approval through. 1457 01:33:05,381 --> 01:33:07,758 It's the behavior that I have a problem with. 1458 01:33:07,783 --> 01:33:11,294 It's the work they're doing that I have a problem with, and it's, 1459 01:33:11,319 --> 01:33:13,062 this is what I am gonna fight. 1460 01:33:13,087 --> 01:33:15,432 I'm not interested in mud wrestling with the boys. 1461 01:33:15,457 --> 01:33:17,519 I am absolutely enraged that there are 1462 01:33:17,545 --> 01:33:19,923 people who have appointed themselves elitist 1463 01:33:20,229 --> 01:33:24,141 representatives, and represent themselves as the single voice of this epidemic. 1464 01:33:24,166 --> 01:33:26,677 I am gonna fight them, my patients are gonna fight 1465 01:33:26,702 --> 01:33:29,427 them, and you goddamn well better fight them! 1466 01:33:35,743 --> 01:33:39,515 Apparently there's a big discussion on accelerated approval and protease drug 1467 01:33:39,814 --> 01:33:42,825 development last week on the floor, so we just wanted to give 1468 01:33:42,850 --> 01:33:46,629 you sort of the tag perspective, and give you a sense of our, um, 1469 01:33:46,654 --> 01:33:48,699 proposal on protease drug development so we can start from 1470 01:33:48,724 --> 01:33:51,000 a baseline of common understanding and knowledge. 1471 01:33:51,025 --> 01:33:54,237 This proposal is not about taking expanded access away, 1472 01:33:54,262 --> 01:33:57,811 taking accelerated approval away... this is about adding something. 1473 01:33:57,865 --> 01:33:59,773 This is about figuring out how do we get 1474 01:33:59,799 --> 01:34:02,146 information about how to actually use these drugs. 1475 01:34:02,171 --> 01:34:05,074 We need more people when you have a less powerful drug. 1476 01:34:05,341 --> 01:34:07,955 If we were dealing with penicillin, we could do it in 20 people. 1477 01:34:08,743 --> 01:34:11,187 So we put together a large, simple trial that tried to 1478 01:34:11,212 --> 01:34:14,225 synthesize expanded access in a large, simple trial. 1479 01:34:14,250 --> 01:34:17,727 And what we did is we presented it to Merck, we presented it to 1480 01:34:18,621 --> 01:34:21,786 the F.D.A., we wanted to start a community discussion. 1481 01:34:21,823 --> 01:34:26,310 I just wanted to thank Gregg and Derek for coming to tell us about this... 1482 01:34:27,695 --> 01:34:31,712 Because we hadn't heard anything until we read about it in Barron's. 1483 01:34:31,934 --> 01:34:34,544 If you wanted to hear the proposal, you could have heard it 40 times. 1484 01:34:34,569 --> 01:34:36,246 It's been talked about all over. 1485 01:34:36,271 --> 01:34:37,805 Dr. Cotler wants to speak. 1486 01:34:38,274 --> 01:34:40,651 Tag is talking about getting accurate information. 1487 01:34:40,676 --> 01:34:43,198 ACT UP is talking about making drugs available. 1488 01:34:43,311 --> 01:34:47,003 There should be a way to mesh those two, it's really not one or the other. 1489 01:34:47,216 --> 01:34:49,818 Your two groups are really talking past one another. 1490 01:34:50,152 --> 01:34:53,386 Try not to scream, try not to go at each other's throats, 1491 01:34:53,588 --> 01:34:56,505 but just talk, because the differences really can be bridged. 1492 01:34:58,793 --> 01:34:59,677 No, no, no. 1493 01:34:59,828 --> 01:35:00,848 - Hey! - Shh... 1494 01:35:03,131 --> 01:35:03,831 Quiet! 1495 01:35:04,832 --> 01:35:06,822 '93 to '95 were the worst years. 1496 01:35:08,503 --> 01:35:10,680 It was a really terrifying time. 1497 01:35:12,173 --> 01:35:13,942 They were the worst years. 1498 01:35:18,314 --> 01:35:19,811 And then we got lucky. 1499 01:36:08,896 --> 01:36:09,596 Um... 1500 01:36:11,132 --> 01:36:12,765 You know, just losing... 1501 01:36:16,204 --> 01:36:16,904 And, uh... 1502 01:36:19,475 --> 01:36:20,495 Just so many... 1503 01:36:22,944 --> 01:36:24,305 So many good people. 1504 01:36:24,846 --> 01:36:25,662 And... uh... 1505 01:36:28,550 --> 01:36:30,115 You know, like any war, 1506 01:36:32,520 --> 01:36:34,493 you wonder why you came home. 1507 01:36:49,171 --> 01:36:50,600 Mark collected all of 1508 01:36:51,407 --> 01:36:54,718 our writings, pieces that all of us had done about what had gone 1509 01:36:54,743 --> 01:36:58,187 wrong in the ways that we studied previous drugs, and what 1510 01:36:58,212 --> 01:37:01,458 we were already doing wrong in terms of trying to figure out 1511 01:37:01,483 --> 01:37:03,360 whether the protease inhibitors worked, and we published it 1512 01:37:03,385 --> 01:37:06,098 as this big report and started passing them out everywhere we went. 1513 01:37:06,454 --> 01:37:07,330 Let's do this study. 1514 01:37:07,355 --> 01:37:10,964 They elevated themselves by their own self-education about 1515 01:37:11,193 --> 01:37:14,437 these things, and then it became very, very clear that you 1516 01:37:14,462 --> 01:37:17,106 weren't gonna mess with these people because they knew exactly 1517 01:37:17,131 --> 01:37:20,878 what you were talking about, and they knew exactly what they 1518 01:37:20,903 --> 01:37:22,196 were talking about. 1519 01:37:22,337 --> 01:37:25,782 Activists created a system that was able to do everything 1520 01:37:25,807 --> 01:37:30,227 faster, better, cheaper, more ethically, and more effectively. 1521 01:37:31,078 --> 01:37:33,757 They forced people to put together the right clinical 1522 01:37:33,782 --> 01:37:38,897 trials where you had the patient in mind, and you weren't cutting corners. 1523 01:37:39,387 --> 01:37:41,565 And of course, the big breakthrough was combination 1524 01:37:41,590 --> 01:37:45,061 therapy, 'cause mono-therapy was clearly not the way to go. 1525 01:37:45,594 --> 01:37:47,737 So let's go back into patients, and let's go back into 1526 01:37:47,762 --> 01:37:50,553 patients with crixivan plus A.Z.T. Plus 3tc. 1527 01:37:51,033 --> 01:37:54,044 The activists proposed a study design, industry used it. 1528 01:37:54,069 --> 01:37:56,218 It got the drug approved in six months. 1529 01:37:56,337 --> 01:37:59,275 So I was at a meeting in Washington, and I stood up 1530 01:38:00,141 --> 01:38:04,013 there and I showed for the first time the data in the study. 1531 01:38:05,012 --> 01:38:09,419 The data goes up on the screen and everyone gasps and cameras start to click. 1532 01:38:09,484 --> 01:38:13,914 And just, it's a realization that this is, this is really great drug, and it, 1533 01:38:14,222 --> 01:38:14,887 it could work. 1534 01:38:14,922 --> 01:38:18,134 I remember sitting there in a hotel room in Washington, D.C., 1535 01:38:18,159 --> 01:38:21,817 our hotel banquet room, and just crying. 1536 01:38:23,030 --> 01:38:24,340 It was like, we did it. 1537 01:38:24,365 --> 01:38:25,521 We did something. 1538 01:38:25,934 --> 01:38:27,744 It was too much to take in at that point. 1539 01:38:27,769 --> 01:38:30,713 It wasn't until we started putting the drugs in our bodies 1540 01:38:30,738 --> 01:38:32,575 and we all went home and... 1541 01:38:33,475 --> 01:38:36,753 Started, went straight on that regimen that had been on that 1542 01:38:36,778 --> 01:38:41,882 slide, including crixivan and two nucleoside analogues. 1543 01:38:42,684 --> 01:38:47,060 And sure enough, it happened in us within 30 days, all of us. 1544 01:38:48,222 --> 01:38:50,408 Undetectable, undetectable, undetectable. 1545 01:38:50,525 --> 01:38:53,792 The dying was stopping with triple drug combination. 1546 01:38:54,429 --> 01:38:57,874 And if you needed your clinical trial, you could just go to 1547 01:38:57,899 --> 01:39:00,622 these hospitals that were not filling up the way they were 1548 01:39:00,636 --> 01:39:02,813 filling up with people with HIV. 1549 01:39:02,904 --> 01:39:06,148 You would see their Kaposi's sarcoma lesions that had been 1550 01:39:06,173 --> 01:39:08,078 bright and red and, um, big, 1551 01:39:09,778 --> 01:39:11,554 melting back into their skin. 1552 01:39:11,579 --> 01:39:13,257 They were calling it the Lazarus effect. 1553 01:39:13,282 --> 01:39:16,026 People who were deathly ill, would get put on this drug 1554 01:39:16,051 --> 01:39:18,262 and all of a sudden, they're working again. 1555 01:39:18,287 --> 01:39:20,328 That was a phenomenal feeling. 1556 01:39:20,689 --> 01:39:21,505 It worked. 1557 01:39:21,789 --> 01:39:24,072 You know, we did something remarkable. 1558 01:39:24,426 --> 01:39:27,600 So that breakthrough, you know, that we thought was 1559 01:39:28,195 --> 01:39:30,372 gonna happen in '88 or '89 if we 1560 01:39:30,998 --> 01:39:34,733 just worked fast enough, you know, it did happen. 1561 01:39:38,372 --> 01:39:40,277 But not until '96, and so... 1562 01:39:42,578 --> 01:39:44,394 You know, a lot of people died. 1563 01:39:44,579 --> 01:39:46,416 Maybe if Reagan had started 1564 01:39:47,416 --> 01:39:49,297 putting money into AIDS a little earlier... 1565 01:39:58,894 --> 01:40:00,663 They wouldn't all be dead. 1566 01:40:03,664 --> 01:40:08,107 I feel very fortunate, and there's probably a lot of 1567 01:40:08,636 --> 01:40:11,781 complicated reasons why, but I still find it very 1568 01:40:11,806 --> 01:40:14,709 difficult to plan for the future, and/or accept that 1569 01:40:16,444 --> 01:40:18,077 I will have a long life. 1570 01:40:20,716 --> 01:40:22,621 Which is unfortunate because 1571 01:40:23,318 --> 01:40:26,971 I've had a long life and I've been living with AIDS for 20 years. 1572 01:40:29,123 --> 01:40:31,306 But it's hard for me to relax into life. 1573 01:40:34,229 --> 01:40:38,976 I know lots of us went through really difficult times after... 1574 01:40:40,668 --> 01:40:44,226 Um, trying to figure out, well, what do I do now? 1575 01:40:45,273 --> 01:40:45,973 You know. 1576 01:40:46,408 --> 01:40:49,252 Not just because I didn't think I had a future and now I do, 1577 01:40:49,277 --> 01:40:55,440 so I have to make some plans, but... how do I do something else that is as... 1578 01:40:58,319 --> 01:41:03,535 I mean, it's a weird word, but as fulfilling as that work has been. 1579 01:41:04,960 --> 01:41:06,865 To be that threatened with 1580 01:41:09,864 --> 01:41:11,020 extinction, um... 1581 01:41:14,703 --> 01:41:16,472 And to not lay down, um... 1582 01:41:20,908 --> 01:41:22,949 To stand up and to fight back. 1583 01:41:27,015 --> 01:41:30,348 The way we did it, the way we took care of ourselves, 1584 01:41:30,418 --> 01:41:34,725 and each other, the goodness that we showed, the humanity 1585 01:41:36,557 --> 01:41:38,190 that we showed the world 1586 01:41:39,027 --> 01:41:40,524 is just mind-boggling. 1587 01:41:41,430 --> 01:41:42,518 Just incredible. 1588 01:41:45,533 --> 01:41:46,281 Fight AIDS! 1589 01:41:46,400 --> 01:41:47,100 ACT UP! 1590 01:41:47,569 --> 01:41:48,317 Fight back! 1591 01:41:48,837 --> 01:41:49,585 Fight AIDS! 1592 01:41:50,005 --> 01:41:53,972 Every single drug that's out there is because of ACT UP, I am convinced. 1593 01:41:54,443 --> 01:41:56,687 We had the brainpower and we had the street power. 1594 01:41:56,712 --> 01:41:58,588 We had the good cops and the bad cops. 1595 01:41:58,613 --> 01:42:00,628 The government didn't get us the drugs. 1596 01:42:00,716 --> 01:42:02,689 No one else got us the drugs. 1597 01:42:02,783 --> 01:42:06,234 We, ACT UP, got those drugs out there. 1598 01:42:06,654 --> 01:42:08,695 It is the proudest achievement 1599 01:42:09,557 --> 01:42:12,755 that the gay population of this world can ever claim. 1600 01:42:13,528 --> 01:42:16,505 We could do it because we could deliver hundreds and 1601 01:42:16,530 --> 01:42:18,571 sometimes thousands of bodies. 1602 01:42:19,000 --> 01:42:22,302 We had people with AIDS putting their bodies on the line, 1603 01:42:22,369 --> 01:42:26,958 flopping out in the streets, saying "fine, this is my body, take me away." 1604 01:42:27,341 --> 01:42:28,974 I drew the line there. 1605 01:42:30,679 --> 01:42:32,720 I didn't want to get arrested. 1606 01:42:34,315 --> 01:42:35,880 That far I wouldn't go. 1607 01:42:47,595 --> 01:42:48,479 ??Keeping up, 1608 01:42:50,966 --> 01:42:53,647 keeping up with the feeling, oh, yeah ?? 1627 01:42:54,269 --> 01:42:56,453 ??getting to know what you like 1609 01:42:57,671 --> 01:42:58,964 and what you love ?? 1629 01:42:59,608 --> 01:43:03,779 I'd like to close with words written by fellow AIDS activist, Vito Russo. 1610 01:43:04,512 --> 01:43:08,690 "When future generations ask what we did in the war, we have 1611 01:43:09,717 --> 01:43:13,260 to be able to tell them that we were out here fighting, and we 1612 01:43:13,755 --> 01:43:17,909 have to leave a legacy to the generations of people who will come after us. 1613 01:43:18,993 --> 01:43:22,023 Remember that someday the AIDS crisis will be over. 1614 01:43:23,430 --> 01:43:26,938 And when that day has come and gone, there will be a people 1615 01:43:27,402 --> 01:43:30,998 alive on this earth, gay people and straight people, 1616 01:43:31,072 --> 01:43:34,484 black people and white people, men and women who will hear 1617 01:43:34,509 --> 01:43:39,349 the story that once there was a terrible disease, and that a 1618 01:43:39,613 --> 01:43:43,426 brave group of people stood up and fought... and in some cases 1619 01:43:43,451 --> 01:43:46,805 died... so that others might live and be free." 1620 01:43:48,222 --> 01:43:49,174 ??And there's, 1621 01:43:50,158 --> 01:43:53,449 and there's, and there's no end in sight ?? 1642 01:43:54,729 --> 01:43:56,566 ??and there's, and there's, 1622 01:43:57,565 --> 01:43:59,538 and there's no end in sight ?? 1644 01:44:06,774 --> 01:44:08,970 We might have a federal charge against us... 1623 01:44:10,110 --> 01:44:10,810 Great! 1624 01:44:11,279 --> 01:44:13,048 Leavenworth, here we come. 1625 01:44:15,716 --> 01:44:16,804 ...an invoice? 1626 01:44:24,792 --> 01:44:25,744 ??Keeping up ?? 1649 01:44:27,662 --> 01:44:28,614 ??keeping up ?? 1650 01:44:28,930 --> 01:44:29,950 Green, green... 1627 01:44:31,600 --> 01:44:32,893 Ouch, that hurts. 1628 01:44:34,970 --> 01:44:37,191 ??Keeping it up, keeping it up ?? 1653 01:44:40,274 --> 01:44:43,285 Information is essential so that doctors and patients 1629 01:44:43,310 --> 01:44:45,560 can make intelligent treatment decisions. 1630 01:44:49,083 --> 01:44:50,160 Okay, all right. 1631 01:44:50,185 --> 01:44:51,853 Do I have to hold the red button? 1632 01:44:52,020 --> 01:44:53,449 No, you can let go. 1633 01:44:53,954 --> 01:44:55,632 I'm really glad to see everybody here. 1634 01:44:55,657 --> 01:44:57,086 You look really good. 1635 01:44:58,960 --> 01:45:01,508 ??Try to keep up in time. ?? 1661 01:45:02,296 --> 01:45:04,607 I'd like to suggest that we not be unethical, to do 1636 01:45:04,632 --> 01:45:08,574 a randomized trial of two different prevention programs. 1637 01:45:10,971 --> 01:45:14,937 If we don't eradicate HIV everywhere, we will never eradicate it anywhere. 1638 01:45:15,944 --> 01:45:16,896 ??Keeping up ?? 1665 01:45:18,880 --> 01:45:19,832 ??keeping up ?? 1666 01:45:20,748 --> 01:45:23,981 We may march without incident or they may arrest us. 1639 01:45:24,719 --> 01:45:25,875 But it'll be fun. 1640 01:45:31,960 --> 01:45:33,797 ...plane insky magazine. 1641 01:45:38,099 --> 01:45:40,020 ??We're going to ad-min today. ?? 1670 01:45:42,804 --> 01:45:47,497 ??and there's, and there's, and there's no end in sight ?? 1671 01:45:48,710 --> 01:45:50,547 ??and there's, and there's, 1642 01:45:51,680 --> 01:45:53,653 and there's no end in sight ?? 1673 01:45:57,886 --> 01:45:58,838 ??keeping up ?? 1674 01:46:00,188 --> 01:46:02,229 In just over, um, two years, 1643 01:46:03,725 --> 01:46:06,562 um, that drug went from test tube to full approval. 1644 01:46:07,061 --> 01:46:08,908 ??Heartbeat won't go slow ?? 1677 01:46:10,332 --> 01:46:13,402 ??and when it's knowing you will be there tonight ?? 1678 01:46:16,704 --> 01:46:17,656 ??keeping up ?? 139919

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