Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated:
1
00:00:14,681 --> 00:00:15,971
My sister Rita,
2
00:00:17,308 --> 00:00:18,888
she was my best friend.
3
00:00:20,854 --> 00:00:22,904
Rita would ask me
when it was time to go to bed,
4
00:00:22,981 --> 00:00:24,821
and we would share a room together.
5
00:00:25,108 --> 00:00:27,608
Uh, she would say,
"Would you like me to sing you to sleep
6
00:00:27,694 --> 00:00:29,284
or play you the flute?"
7
00:00:30,697 --> 00:00:34,907
Rita was the number one flute player
at the Georgetown High School.
8
00:00:35,326 --> 00:00:36,906
She was in the drill team.
9
00:00:38,413 --> 00:00:41,123
Rita and Kevin were just starting to date.
10
00:00:41,916 --> 00:00:45,916
They were going to the Highland Mall
in Austin, Texas
11
00:00:46,421 --> 00:00:49,381
to go see the movie Midnight Express.
12
00:00:53,178 --> 00:00:54,888
On the way home,
13
00:00:55,221 --> 00:00:58,601
the car ran out of gas on I-35.
14
00:01:00,518 --> 00:01:05,768
My father told us later
that he had seen Rita and Kevin walking,
15
00:01:05,857 --> 00:01:08,567
but didn't know it was his daughter.
16
00:01:11,946 --> 00:01:15,236
The next morning, she hadn't come home.
17
00:01:16,701 --> 00:01:20,081
So that's when the family
started to panic.
18
00:01:22,415 --> 00:01:23,955
And then, Tuesday morning,
19
00:01:24,626 --> 00:01:26,626
my mother was beside herself.
20
00:01:27,087 --> 00:01:29,797
She was cleaning out a closet
to stay busy,
21
00:01:30,215 --> 00:01:31,715
when suddenly,
22
00:01:32,175 --> 00:01:35,345
my sister...
my older sister heard on the radio
23
00:01:36,054 --> 00:01:39,354
that they had found a body
in McLennan County.
24
00:01:40,308 --> 00:01:43,018
And my sister screamed and told my mother,
25
00:01:43,478 --> 00:01:45,558
"That's Rita! They found Rita!"
26
00:01:46,981 --> 00:01:49,691
And my mother said
to my older sister,
27
00:01:49,776 --> 00:01:51,066
"No, it's not.
28
00:01:51,653 --> 00:01:54,163
It's not my daughter. That is not Rita."
29
00:01:57,450 --> 00:02:00,620
Law enforcement called us
to the courthouse.
30
00:02:02,705 --> 00:02:04,575
They took us down to the basement...
31
00:02:06,042 --> 00:02:07,712
and they showed us...
32
00:02:07,794 --> 00:02:09,174
Rita's clothes.
33
00:02:11,506 --> 00:02:15,466
That's when they told us
that Rita had been killed.
34
00:02:17,929 --> 00:02:21,269
Kevin had been shot in Georgetown
35
00:02:21,683 --> 00:02:24,483
and had six bullets in his head.
36
00:02:28,231 --> 00:02:30,361
Rita's body was found in Waco.
37
00:02:31,860 --> 00:02:34,070
She had run across a field,
38
00:02:34,487 --> 00:02:37,197
and they came
and shot her execution-style,
39
00:02:37,282 --> 00:02:38,492
right behind the head.
40
00:02:43,121 --> 00:02:45,501
Rita was killed when I was 16.
41
00:02:47,250 --> 00:02:52,300
It affects everything I do,
every day I live, every day I breathe.
42
00:02:53,131 --> 00:02:54,341
I miss her.
43
00:02:58,303 --> 00:02:59,803
No matter who it was,
44
00:03:00,513 --> 00:03:02,313
I just wanted justice.
45
00:03:12,192 --> 00:03:13,032
Where's the murder?
46
00:03:13,109 --> 00:03:16,199
He's looking for, uh,
where one of the killings was done.
47
00:03:16,279 --> 00:03:17,199
He's trying to show him
48
00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,120
- where the killing was done.
- Another murder.
49
00:03:19,282 --> 00:03:23,622
Uh, he's, uh, directed us
to the, uh, scene of another murder.
50
00:03:23,703 --> 00:03:26,413
Uh, this is a boy, uh...
51
00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,630
that was with a girl that we picked up
the other side of Georgetown.
52
00:03:31,044 --> 00:03:33,844
They had car trouble
and we stopped and picked them up.
53
00:03:33,922 --> 00:03:35,762
The boy had gotten out of the car,
54
00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:36,840
and, uh...
55
00:03:37,592 --> 00:03:41,012
was a little ways out in front of the car
when, uh, Ottis shot him.
56
00:03:42,305 --> 00:03:45,345
The girl, she was trying to get out
and we kept her in.
57
00:03:45,433 --> 00:03:47,143
We went on to, uh...
58
00:03:47,602 --> 00:03:49,852
on up the road, uh...
59
00:03:49,938 --> 00:03:51,478
Oh, it's about, uh...
60
00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,990
Oh, let's see.
It'd be about 55 miles from here...
61
00:03:59,072 --> 00:04:01,952
...is where we shot the girl at.
62
00:04:02,033 --> 00:04:03,953
Was the girl carrying anything?
63
00:04:04,244 --> 00:04:05,954
Well, yeah, she had, uh...
64
00:04:06,037 --> 00:04:07,577
a... a sweater,
65
00:04:08,331 --> 00:04:11,251
Uh, I think that was in her arms,
and I think, uh...
66
00:04:11,334 --> 00:04:13,938
I think a billfold or a purse,
one of them, I don't remember which.
67
00:04:13,962 --> 00:04:15,922
Uh, she had...
68
00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,129
She had the sweater, I know, in her arms.
69
00:04:19,717 --> 00:04:22,797
So, uh, y-you have some, uh, information
70
00:04:22,887 --> 00:04:25,307
uh, from that body found here.
71
00:04:25,515 --> 00:04:27,925
- Yes.
- Does it match to the history?
72
00:04:30,687 --> 00:04:31,687
Uh, he's...
73
00:04:32,146 --> 00:04:35,526
As far as I'm concerned,
he has confirmed both cases.
74
00:04:35,608 --> 00:04:37,778
The girl...
75
00:04:39,737 --> 00:04:42,907
The girl was killed, uh,
56 miles from here
76
00:04:42,991 --> 00:04:44,491
instead of 55.
77
00:04:44,575 --> 00:04:47,325
She was carrying a sweater
78
00:04:47,412 --> 00:04:49,122
in her arms when she was shot.
79
00:04:49,831 --> 00:04:50,831
Hmm.
80
00:04:51,332 --> 00:04:53,842
It was a relief to know that...
81
00:04:53,918 --> 00:04:56,838
they had found Rita's killer.
82
00:04:58,298 --> 00:04:59,758
I wanted him to...
83
00:04:59,841 --> 00:05:01,761
to go to prison and...
84
00:05:01,843 --> 00:05:03,853
and sit on death row forever.
85
00:05:04,429 --> 00:05:08,269
Maybe not die immediately,
but just sit there and think about it.
86
00:05:50,183 --> 00:05:54,063
Henry Lee Lucas admits
to confessing to over 600 murders,
87
00:05:54,145 --> 00:05:56,605
including the one
that sent him to death row.
88
00:05:56,731 --> 00:05:59,111
So why did you confess
to all those cases?
89
00:06:00,276 --> 00:06:01,936
Just one of them things, I guess.
90
00:06:02,570 --> 00:06:05,410
If Lucas dies
by lethal injection in December,
91
00:06:05,490 --> 00:06:09,910
he may take the answers
to some 100 untried cases along with him.
92
00:06:10,411 --> 00:06:12,411
One of the most vicious killers
in American history
93
00:06:12,455 --> 00:06:14,455
is set to be put to death
in a couple of weeks,
94
00:06:14,540 --> 00:06:16,130
but like Ted Bundy before him,
95
00:06:16,209 --> 00:06:19,209
Lucas is now desperately trying
to save his own life.
96
00:06:19,295 --> 00:06:22,465
I just want people to know
that I'm not the mass murderer.
97
00:06:24,509 --> 00:06:26,389
If my appeal is denied,
98
00:06:26,636 --> 00:06:28,806
I won't stand a chance of staying alive.
99
00:06:29,847 --> 00:06:31,097
This is Texas.
100
00:06:32,558 --> 00:06:34,478
And whatever happens in Texas,
101
00:06:35,144 --> 00:06:36,814
no matter what it is,
102
00:06:38,231 --> 00:06:39,691
they gonna have their way.
103
00:07:06,551 --> 00:07:08,891
My last visit to death row,
104
00:07:09,303 --> 00:07:14,353
he was saying, "I think they are gonna
execute me in a couple of days."
105
00:07:15,101 --> 00:07:16,271
And I said, "You know,
106
00:07:16,644 --> 00:07:19,114
when you open yourself to the Lord
107
00:07:19,188 --> 00:07:20,978
to help you,
108
00:07:21,482 --> 00:07:22,532
He will."
109
00:07:24,777 --> 00:07:27,317
Unless George Bush
does something or...
110
00:07:27,405 --> 00:07:29,405
or the parole board does something...
111
00:07:31,409 --> 00:07:34,949
Well, they've never given clemency here
in the state of Texas yet, I don't think,
112
00:07:35,037 --> 00:07:37,167
so I don't think that they will now.
113
00:07:38,374 --> 00:07:39,794
We're a death penalty state.
114
00:07:40,293 --> 00:07:42,213
Uh, we've executed a lot of people.
115
00:07:46,048 --> 00:07:49,928
Governor Bush, in over 100 other cases,
116
00:07:50,470 --> 00:07:53,600
had refused to give any leniency.
117
00:07:56,684 --> 00:08:00,024
They were gonna put him to death
for the Orange Socks killing.
118
00:08:01,147 --> 00:08:02,317
And I knew,
119
00:08:02,690 --> 00:08:06,320
and I thought everybody knew by that time,
that he hadn't done it.
120
00:08:06,819 --> 00:08:09,109
Henry Lee Lucas
was given the death penalty
121
00:08:09,197 --> 00:08:11,407
for the 1979 rape and murder
122
00:08:11,491 --> 00:08:12,871
of an unidentified woman,
123
00:08:12,950 --> 00:08:14,790
known only as Orange Socks.
124
00:08:15,244 --> 00:08:19,214
The only evidence connecting Lucas
to the killing was his confession.
125
00:08:19,624 --> 00:08:22,634
But Lucas says
that confession was only a lie,
126
00:08:22,710 --> 00:08:25,210
and because of that,
his life should be spared.
127
00:08:25,296 --> 00:08:26,796
All I did was lie.
128
00:08:27,715 --> 00:08:30,965
What about the murderers out there
that's running in the street right now?
129
00:08:32,011 --> 00:08:33,691
I was a lawyer
for Henry Lee Lucas
130
00:08:33,721 --> 00:08:35,471
on the Orange Socks case.
131
00:08:39,143 --> 00:08:42,153
It seems incredible now. I...
132
00:08:42,939 --> 00:08:45,109
I don't know that I really...
133
00:08:47,276 --> 00:08:51,986
could see how crazy this case was
at that time.
134
00:08:55,117 --> 00:08:59,707
As soon as Jim Boutwell
heard about Henry Lee Lucas,
135
00:08:59,789 --> 00:09:01,869
he was convinced that he had the man
136
00:09:01,958 --> 00:09:05,168
who not only had killed
the Orange Socks victim,
137
00:09:05,253 --> 00:09:08,843
but also all the other cases
up and down the interstates.
138
00:09:09,966 --> 00:09:13,176
Jim Boutwell had a mystique and aura
around him
139
00:09:13,261 --> 00:09:16,391
that established him as untouchable.
140
00:09:18,224 --> 00:09:20,604
Always had a stetson, white shirt,
141
00:09:21,185 --> 00:09:24,355
boots, belt with the seal of Texas on it.
142
00:09:25,231 --> 00:09:31,361
So, when he started down
the path of Henry Lee Lucas,
143
00:09:31,445 --> 00:09:32,275
uh...
144
00:09:32,363 --> 00:09:34,413
most everybody went along with him.
145
00:09:37,034 --> 00:09:39,044
His word was the word,
146
00:09:39,453 --> 00:09:42,623
and we all looked up to him,
we all respected him.
147
00:09:42,707 --> 00:09:43,787
That was up there.
148
00:09:44,166 --> 00:09:47,796
There's no doubt in my mind
that Henry Lee Lucas murdered that girl.
149
00:09:47,878 --> 00:09:48,798
Why?
150
00:09:48,879 --> 00:09:52,799
Uh, because of some things he told me
in the initial interview,
151
00:09:53,801 --> 00:09:55,971
that only the killer could have known.
152
00:09:56,387 --> 00:10:00,217
He had not seen photographs,
he had not seen the reports,
153
00:10:01,100 --> 00:10:04,060
or anything
prior to the time of the interview.
154
00:10:04,145 --> 00:10:06,685
Do you want to tell us, uh,
just what happened?
155
00:10:06,772 --> 00:10:10,112
Boutwell interviewed Henry
after I interviewed him.
156
00:10:10,943 --> 00:10:13,573
He told me that he didn't do it.
157
00:10:14,989 --> 00:10:16,819
So, you know, I-I...
158
00:10:16,907 --> 00:10:21,157
I just never felt comfortable
with that being one of his cases.
159
00:10:21,245 --> 00:10:23,075
Is this the girl...
160
00:10:23,164 --> 00:10:24,374
That's the same girl.
161
00:10:24,457 --> 00:10:25,877
...that you picked up?
162
00:10:26,083 --> 00:10:28,293
- That's the same one.
- Okay.
163
00:10:28,377 --> 00:10:30,087
So I go jump on Henry again.
164
00:10:30,171 --> 00:10:33,421
I said, "Now, dang it, you lying to me?
You lying to him? What's the deal?"
165
00:10:33,507 --> 00:10:35,757
He said, "Ah, he just wanted to clear it,
166
00:10:35,843 --> 00:10:36,843
uh...
167
00:10:36,886 --> 00:10:38,096
so I took it for him."
168
00:10:40,139 --> 00:10:44,979
Something happened in that jail
between Jim Boutwell and Henry Lee Lucas.
169
00:10:45,061 --> 00:10:47,061
Some relationship formed there...
170
00:10:47,813 --> 00:10:51,653
that was such
that Henry would do whatever it was
171
00:10:51,734 --> 00:10:53,904
that the sheriff wanted him to do.
172
00:10:53,986 --> 00:10:55,196
Do you like him?
173
00:10:56,906 --> 00:10:58,616
Well, I don't like what he's done,
174
00:10:59,492 --> 00:11:00,622
and he knows that.
175
00:11:01,744 --> 00:11:06,294
Uh, I see him on a daily basis
and have for over a year now.
176
00:11:07,583 --> 00:11:08,583
Uh...
177
00:11:09,710 --> 00:11:11,380
We get along.
178
00:11:12,797 --> 00:11:13,797
We get along.
179
00:11:14,090 --> 00:11:18,720
We get along by not lying to each other
and being truthful with each other.
180
00:11:19,178 --> 00:11:21,388
So his track record
is real good?
181
00:11:21,639 --> 00:11:25,389
Real good or real bad,
depending on how you want to look at it.
182
00:11:27,561 --> 00:11:29,811
- But he is telling the truth?
- Yes.
183
00:11:30,398 --> 00:11:33,358
Sheriff Boutwell was known as the person
184
00:11:33,776 --> 00:11:36,236
who had the serial killer
185
00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,120
that everyone in the country
was talking about,
186
00:11:39,198 --> 00:11:42,828
and his ego and reputation
were wrapped up in that.
187
00:11:43,953 --> 00:11:46,003
In Sheriff Boutwell's office,
188
00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:47,870
there was a plaque on his wall,
189
00:11:48,582 --> 00:11:49,712
and it said,
190
00:11:49,792 --> 00:11:52,092
"To Sheriff Jim Boutwell,
191
00:11:52,169 --> 00:11:56,759
graduate of the
Henry Lee Lucas School of Psychology."
192
00:11:59,093 --> 00:12:02,813
Sheriff Boutwell
had Lucas' psychology down.
193
00:12:03,472 --> 00:12:06,642
He was the only one
that could deal with Lucas when Lucas...
194
00:12:07,143 --> 00:12:10,693
got real angry and disturbed.
195
00:12:10,771 --> 00:12:14,021
Boutwell was the one
that we'd always call on to...
196
00:12:14,650 --> 00:12:16,360
you know, come and fix Henry.
197
00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,320
I took Henry in
to see Sheriff Boutwell
198
00:12:21,407 --> 00:12:24,077
in January of 1984, because Henry...
199
00:12:24,452 --> 00:12:27,292
told me that he couldn't make
any more confessions
200
00:12:27,371 --> 00:12:29,751
and that he couldn't say no
to the sheriff.
201
00:12:32,418 --> 00:12:33,878
Anyway, Henry, uh...
202
00:12:33,961 --> 00:12:36,551
Henry's told me again
that he wants to quit talking...
203
00:12:36,630 --> 00:12:39,630
- Mm-hmm.
- Feels like he can't say no.
204
00:12:39,717 --> 00:12:42,507
Well, Henry,
I appreciate what you've done.
205
00:12:43,637 --> 00:12:45,347
But I'm not doing it honest.
206
00:12:46,974 --> 00:12:49,064
I just don't have no control of myself.
207
00:12:50,060 --> 00:12:51,770
Well, you need to just relax.
208
00:12:54,774 --> 00:12:56,034
Like you've been told...
209
00:12:56,901 --> 00:12:59,571
many times before,
you have a right not to talk,
210
00:12:59,862 --> 00:13:01,322
and I think, of course,
211
00:13:01,405 --> 00:13:04,065
I think you've got a right to talk too
if you want to.
212
00:13:05,409 --> 00:13:08,539
I feel that some of these things
that I'm accepting ain't mine.
213
00:13:11,916 --> 00:13:14,076
Uh, it seems like
everything I do is wrong.
214
00:13:14,376 --> 00:13:15,206
Well...
215
00:13:15,294 --> 00:13:17,594
I mean, it might not look like it
to you, but...
216
00:13:18,339 --> 00:13:20,799
I know that I'm accepting things
that do not fit.
217
00:13:22,718 --> 00:13:23,928
I just can't stop it.
218
00:13:25,513 --> 00:13:26,513
Mmm.
219
00:13:26,722 --> 00:13:29,642
Well, maybe you just got it in you
and it wants out.
220
00:13:31,060 --> 00:13:32,560
Once you get it all out, why,
221
00:13:32,645 --> 00:13:35,305
maybe you'll be very much more peaceful
with yourself.
222
00:13:36,273 --> 00:13:37,363
Why don't you, uh...
223
00:13:37,817 --> 00:13:39,857
Why don't you watch the television
for a while?
224
00:13:41,362 --> 00:13:43,242
And if your nerves are bothering you,
225
00:13:43,322 --> 00:13:46,582
if you feel like you need
any more medication, or need to change it,
226
00:13:46,659 --> 00:13:48,289
why, all you got to do is let us know
227
00:13:48,369 --> 00:13:50,369
and we'll see a doctor
and see what we can do.
228
00:13:51,872 --> 00:13:53,462
You have a guy who's on the...
229
00:13:54,750 --> 00:13:56,420
brink of a nervous breakdown.
230
00:13:59,129 --> 00:14:02,299
And you have a sheriff who has...
231
00:14:04,260 --> 00:14:07,510
just come in
and once again manipulated him
232
00:14:08,514 --> 00:14:09,564
in a way...
233
00:14:10,266 --> 00:14:13,136
to satisfy
what the sheriff was wanting to do.
234
00:14:13,227 --> 00:14:16,227
I wish I could have seen it
at the time of...
235
00:14:17,147 --> 00:14:22,737
of what was going on with the sheriff
and with Lucas.
236
00:14:23,779 --> 00:14:27,369
It was clearly the result
of their relationship and... and this...
237
00:14:27,449 --> 00:14:28,449
the...
238
00:14:28,784 --> 00:14:29,784
um...
239
00:14:29,952 --> 00:14:32,372
a very, very sick man
240
00:14:33,747 --> 00:14:35,957
that was being manipulated
by the sheriff.
241
00:14:38,961 --> 00:14:39,961
That's fine.
242
00:14:42,631 --> 00:14:45,341
Jim Boutwell was utterly convinced,
243
00:14:45,426 --> 00:14:47,256
without any doubt,
244
00:14:47,344 --> 00:14:49,764
that Henry was guilty for those crimes.
245
00:14:51,765 --> 00:14:55,435
It was Sheriff Boutwell's responsibility,
he believed,
246
00:14:55,895 --> 00:14:58,265
to persuade Henry to keep going,
247
00:14:58,606 --> 00:15:01,816
because the facts were there
and he was determined to get them.
248
00:15:03,736 --> 00:15:07,776
Boutwell believed Henry
to a certain extent,
249
00:15:08,407 --> 00:15:09,407
I'm sure,
250
00:15:10,159 --> 00:15:12,869
but he also wanted to clear his cases.
251
00:15:14,872 --> 00:15:16,792
Sheriff is an elected position.
252
00:15:17,374 --> 00:15:21,254
Every four years, Sheriff Boutwell
had to run for re-election.
253
00:15:21,337 --> 00:15:23,127
He was a very popular sheriff.
254
00:15:24,131 --> 00:15:25,841
He was very conscious of the voters
255
00:15:25,925 --> 00:15:29,425
and I-I think he wanted
to clear up a lot of cases
256
00:15:29,762 --> 00:15:32,812
so that no one could say that
there were a bunch of unsolved murders
257
00:15:32,890 --> 00:15:34,850
that had happened on... on his watch.
258
00:15:36,685 --> 00:15:39,435
Sheriff Boutwell had five cases
in Williamson County
259
00:15:39,521 --> 00:15:41,901
that Henry Lee Lucas made confessions for.
260
00:15:43,984 --> 00:15:47,404
Rita Salazar was from Georgetown,
the family was from Georgetown,
261
00:15:47,488 --> 00:15:49,488
and that's where Boutwell was the sheriff.
262
00:15:50,074 --> 00:15:54,624
You know, he wanted to close this case
and be a hero to that family.
263
00:15:55,412 --> 00:15:59,082
I did see the sheriff, Jim Boutwell,
come around quite often
264
00:15:59,166 --> 00:16:00,536
to talk to my mother.
265
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,170
We believed everything he said.
266
00:16:04,338 --> 00:16:05,668
He was the sheriff.
267
00:16:06,006 --> 00:16:07,876
Was the girl carrying anything?
268
00:16:08,217 --> 00:16:11,507
Well, yeah, she had, uh...
a... a sweater,
269
00:16:12,304 --> 00:16:15,184
Uh, I think that was in her arms,
and I think, uh...
270
00:16:15,265 --> 00:16:18,435
I think a billfold or a purse,
one of them, I don't remember which.
271
00:16:18,769 --> 00:16:22,939
It was easy to lead Henry
to a result.
272
00:16:23,023 --> 00:16:26,113
Why did you leave the...
the orange socks on the body?
273
00:16:26,735 --> 00:16:29,855
I left it on a lot of 'em.
Uh, I really don't know why.
274
00:16:33,325 --> 00:16:35,995
I think you had a perfect storm
come together
275
00:16:36,203 --> 00:16:38,753
of a con man who will say anything
276
00:16:39,123 --> 00:16:42,713
coupled with an aggressive sheriff
277
00:16:43,168 --> 00:16:46,838
who was wanting to bolster his reputation.
278
00:16:47,715 --> 00:16:49,125
Looking back on it now,
279
00:16:49,216 --> 00:16:54,636
it's obvious to me that Jim Boutwell
had a lot riding on Henry Lee Lucas.
280
00:16:55,055 --> 00:16:56,965
Time is 4:20 p.m.
281
00:16:57,266 --> 00:17:01,596
The location is the Williamson County
Sheriff's office in Georgetown.
282
00:17:02,104 --> 00:17:07,234
Sheriff Boutwell would take
Henry's inconsistencies or mistakes
283
00:17:07,609 --> 00:17:10,949
as just part of the management process
of his key suspect.
284
00:17:11,030 --> 00:17:13,660
Where did you pick up,
uh, that couple?
285
00:17:14,241 --> 00:17:16,041
In Shreveport, Louisiana.
286
00:17:16,285 --> 00:17:17,695
Shreveport, Louisiana?
287
00:17:18,412 --> 00:17:21,962
The couple we're looking at
weren't picked up in Louisiana, Henry.
288
00:17:22,041 --> 00:17:25,091
They were picked up, uh, in this area.
289
00:17:25,878 --> 00:17:28,378
I realize it's possible you... you might...
290
00:17:30,466 --> 00:17:32,716
be somewhat confused over things,
291
00:17:33,677 --> 00:17:34,677
but you...
292
00:17:35,262 --> 00:17:36,512
you look again...
293
00:17:37,389 --> 00:17:38,599
at the boy's picture.
294
00:17:39,516 --> 00:17:41,346
In all of Boutwell's cases,
295
00:17:41,602 --> 00:17:44,402
Henry had facts
that only the killer would know,
296
00:17:44,855 --> 00:17:47,065
like the case of Carolyn Cervenka.
297
00:17:49,568 --> 00:17:52,148
There was a missing girl
in Williamson County
298
00:17:52,237 --> 00:17:55,197
that was creating some problems
for Sheriff Boutwell.
299
00:17:55,783 --> 00:17:58,043
You told us earlier today...
300
00:17:59,536 --> 00:18:02,286
that you abducted
301
00:18:03,082 --> 00:18:04,122
a young girl.
302
00:18:04,208 --> 00:18:07,248
Boutwell had gotten him
to confess to the murder
303
00:18:07,336 --> 00:18:09,416
of the missing Cervenka girl.
304
00:18:09,963 --> 00:18:12,553
I, uh, stripped her down
and had sex with her again
305
00:18:12,633 --> 00:18:13,683
after I killed her.
306
00:18:14,718 --> 00:18:18,008
Henry had confessed,
just like on all the others,
307
00:18:18,222 --> 00:18:20,772
and gave graphic detail
308
00:18:21,517 --> 00:18:23,557
about everything about Carolyn.
309
00:18:23,644 --> 00:18:27,824
Earlier you told us, Henry,
about her jewelry.
310
00:18:27,898 --> 00:18:31,068
Yeah, I recall,
it was a gold type necklace
311
00:18:31,151 --> 00:18:34,451
with, uh, some kind of
a little design thing on the front.
312
00:18:35,781 --> 00:18:38,201
And Henry had described
her necklace.
313
00:18:38,826 --> 00:18:40,986
I know that I know details
about it,
314
00:18:41,203 --> 00:18:42,373
such as her necklace,
315
00:18:42,996 --> 00:18:45,456
parts of the car and stuff like that,
but, uh...
316
00:18:45,916 --> 00:18:49,416
I can't explain right now, uh,
why I know them details.
317
00:18:50,838 --> 00:18:53,758
They finally found her
months and months later.
318
00:18:53,924 --> 00:18:56,844
She had drowned,
she'd had an epileptic fit.
319
00:18:58,303 --> 00:19:01,433
Drove her car into the water and drowned.
320
00:19:03,142 --> 00:19:05,442
Nobody murdered Carolyn Cervenka.
321
00:19:06,436 --> 00:19:08,556
And when they pulled Carolyn up
out of the creek,
322
00:19:08,647 --> 00:19:10,477
she was still wearing that necklace.
323
00:19:11,108 --> 00:19:13,648
Henry had never seen Carolyn Cervenka.
324
00:19:13,735 --> 00:19:15,645
He had never seen that necklace,
325
00:19:15,737 --> 00:19:17,947
yet he described it to a T.
326
00:19:18,532 --> 00:19:19,832
How'd that happen?
327
00:19:19,908 --> 00:19:22,788
Henry, I'm going to give you these rights
once again.
328
00:19:23,704 --> 00:19:26,674
I think Jim Boutwell
was utterly convinced...
329
00:19:26,748 --> 00:19:28,498
You have the right to remain silent...
330
00:19:28,584 --> 00:19:32,254
...that this was accomplishing
what he had set out to do,
331
00:19:32,796 --> 00:19:36,176
that there was no question
that it was being handled properly.
332
00:19:36,592 --> 00:19:40,102
Sheriff Boutwell was probably
one of the most professional officers
333
00:19:40,429 --> 00:19:41,849
I've been around.
334
00:19:42,306 --> 00:19:45,926
He demanded his officers be credible
that worked for him,
335
00:19:46,018 --> 00:19:48,188
and I certainly think he was credible.
336
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:50,730
If there were some errors made there,
337
00:19:50,814 --> 00:19:52,694
I wish he was here to explain
338
00:19:53,525 --> 00:19:57,145
what caused him
to cause these cases to be cleared.
339
00:19:57,863 --> 00:19:58,863
But...
340
00:19:59,156 --> 00:20:02,656
he didn't have a chance to
because he passed away years... years ago.
341
00:20:09,208 --> 00:20:12,088
I got all my information
from Sheriff Boutwell.
342
00:20:13,629 --> 00:20:17,089
Of course, he's not here to prove it now.
You know, he's gone, so...
343
00:20:19,301 --> 00:20:20,841
That sheriff, he went crazy.
344
00:20:21,595 --> 00:20:24,845
You know, he wanted everything
he could get, so I gave it to him.
345
00:20:25,557 --> 00:20:28,597
So you think the sheriff
and the Rangers are the ones who...
346
00:20:28,685 --> 00:20:30,747
- Are they to blame?
- I don't know that the Rangers...
347
00:20:30,771 --> 00:20:32,941
I don't know whether the Rangers
are to blame,
348
00:20:33,023 --> 00:20:34,423
or whether the sheriff is to blame,
349
00:20:34,483 --> 00:20:36,533
or whether I'm to blame, you know?
I don't know.
350
00:20:38,445 --> 00:20:41,085
What do you think's gonna
happen in the next couple of weeks?
351
00:20:41,281 --> 00:20:43,911
I either get to stay, or I die.
One or the other.
352
00:20:43,992 --> 00:20:46,202
- You know, that's the way it is.
- Okay.
353
00:20:54,294 --> 00:20:55,294
In the '90s,
354
00:20:55,963 --> 00:20:57,973
after I won the verdict
against Channel 8,
355
00:20:58,257 --> 00:21:00,757
I became Henry's defense lawyer.
356
00:21:01,843 --> 00:21:05,853
In spite of there being
no physical evidence,
357
00:21:05,931 --> 00:21:09,481
no witnesses,
nothing to tie Henry to these crimes,
358
00:21:09,559 --> 00:21:11,649
except what came out of his own mouth,
359
00:21:12,187 --> 00:21:16,437
which was fed to him,
that he just regurgitated back out,
360
00:21:17,901 --> 00:21:21,361
Henry will probably be put to death
for something he didn't do.
361
00:21:25,909 --> 00:21:28,409
Every case that I could prove
he was innocent
362
00:21:28,662 --> 00:21:30,502
cast more doubt on Orange Socks,
363
00:21:31,123 --> 00:21:35,293
and maybe slow down that ticking clock
toward his execution.
364
00:21:39,589 --> 00:21:40,839
Henry killed his mother.
365
00:21:40,924 --> 00:21:42,184
That's undisputed.
366
00:21:42,884 --> 00:21:46,014
I had my doubts
about the Becky Powell murder.
367
00:21:46,346 --> 00:21:48,386
I still didn't think he had committed it.
368
00:21:49,683 --> 00:21:52,563
Becky had been
Henry's traveling companion,
369
00:21:52,644 --> 00:21:54,234
one of his first victims,
370
00:21:55,230 --> 00:21:57,820
but Henry kept telling me Becky was alive.
371
00:21:59,943 --> 00:22:02,363
He said they had stopped at a truck stop
372
00:22:02,446 --> 00:22:03,446
and when he came out,
373
00:22:03,530 --> 00:22:07,080
he saw Becky climbing up
into an 18-wheeler.
374
00:22:08,035 --> 00:22:09,945
She left with a truck driver,
375
00:22:10,996 --> 00:22:12,576
and she never came back.
376
00:22:14,166 --> 00:22:18,916
Henry had gotten some letters
from somebody claiming to be Becky.
377
00:22:20,547 --> 00:22:22,297
They were coming from Missouri.
378
00:22:22,382 --> 00:22:24,762
So the detective that I hired,
379
00:22:24,843 --> 00:22:26,263
he and I went to Missouri.
380
00:22:29,014 --> 00:22:31,224
We followed her in her station wagon.
381
00:22:31,767 --> 00:22:34,637
We staked out the house
where we thought she lived.
382
00:22:37,272 --> 00:22:38,862
Okay, it's recording now.
383
00:22:39,691 --> 00:22:41,491
I'm gonna ask you, please,
384
00:22:41,568 --> 00:22:46,028
what was your name in 1979?
385
00:22:47,074 --> 00:22:49,164
Rita Lorraine Powell.
386
00:22:49,242 --> 00:22:52,122
Okay. Was that Becky Powell?
387
00:22:52,371 --> 00:22:53,661
That's Becky Powell.
388
00:22:53,747 --> 00:22:55,497
How'd you get the name "Becky"?
389
00:22:57,417 --> 00:23:00,627
It's just a nickname.
Everybody started calling me Becky.
390
00:23:00,712 --> 00:23:01,712
All right.
391
00:23:03,090 --> 00:23:04,470
Did you know Henry Lucas?
392
00:23:04,966 --> 00:23:06,086
Yes, I did.
393
00:23:06,385 --> 00:23:08,135
How did you meet Henry Lucas?
394
00:23:08,428 --> 00:23:10,098
Ottis brought him home.
395
00:23:10,472 --> 00:23:11,772
And who is Ottis?
396
00:23:11,848 --> 00:23:13,598
Ottis is my uncle.
397
00:23:14,768 --> 00:23:17,938
Where is the first place, Becky,
that you remember living?
398
00:23:18,647 --> 00:23:21,777
I remember living on 1st Street
399
00:23:22,442 --> 00:23:23,862
in Jacksonville.
400
00:23:24,194 --> 00:23:25,194
Okay.
401
00:23:25,362 --> 00:23:29,122
She could describe the house
that Becky grew up in.
402
00:23:29,449 --> 00:23:33,909
Uh, she described the last time
that she ever saw Henry.
403
00:23:34,955 --> 00:23:36,785
I ran off with a trucker.
404
00:23:37,124 --> 00:23:38,124
Okay.
405
00:23:38,708 --> 00:23:39,958
Left Henry.
406
00:23:41,128 --> 00:23:44,208
And then this lady
introduced us to her husband.
407
00:23:44,756 --> 00:23:46,376
Tell us, uh, briefly,
408
00:23:46,466 --> 00:23:48,336
uh, how you met your wife.
409
00:23:49,469 --> 00:23:52,139
Well, I was coming from Wichita Falls,
410
00:23:52,431 --> 00:23:54,271
going to Fort Worth, Texas,
411
00:23:54,349 --> 00:23:57,599
and I stopped at a truck stop
in Bowie, Texas.
412
00:23:57,727 --> 00:24:00,977
All right. You say you were coming,
but were you driving a vehicle?
413
00:24:01,064 --> 00:24:02,064
Yeah, my truck.
414
00:24:02,107 --> 00:24:04,227
And, uh, what kind of truck?
415
00:24:04,317 --> 00:24:06,947
Peterbilt, red, silver.
416
00:24:07,737 --> 00:24:08,737
So I...
417
00:24:09,364 --> 00:24:13,954
stopped at this truck stop
and I saw this young girl out in front.
418
00:24:15,036 --> 00:24:16,536
And, uh, she seemed...
419
00:24:17,247 --> 00:24:18,247
uh...
420
00:24:19,166 --> 00:24:20,076
troubled.
421
00:24:20,167 --> 00:24:21,917
Uh, scared.
422
00:24:23,545 --> 00:24:27,505
Is this kind of what she looked like
when you picked her up at the truck stop?
423
00:24:27,591 --> 00:24:28,591
Yes, sir.
424
00:24:30,427 --> 00:24:31,887
Maybe a little bit older?
425
00:24:39,394 --> 00:24:40,904
I thought, "This is it.
426
00:24:41,146 --> 00:24:42,976
This is the smoking gun."
427
00:24:44,566 --> 00:24:47,276
I flew her to Austin.
428
00:24:47,652 --> 00:24:51,532
I hired a polygraph operator, a good one.
429
00:24:52,616 --> 00:24:54,486
Becky, why did you leave Henry?
430
00:24:55,494 --> 00:24:58,584
Because I was tired
of being broke and hungry.
431
00:25:00,123 --> 00:25:02,253
Did he ever exhibit to you
any behavior
432
00:25:02,334 --> 00:25:04,634
that would make you think
he was a mass killer?
433
00:25:04,711 --> 00:25:05,711
No.
434
00:25:06,588 --> 00:25:08,508
And he came out smiling.
435
00:25:08,590 --> 00:25:11,130
He said, "Vic, you have found Becky."
436
00:25:12,552 --> 00:25:13,852
I felt so good.
437
00:25:13,929 --> 00:25:17,559
As soon as we got the polygraph report,
I went public with it.
438
00:25:17,641 --> 00:25:21,231
I wanted to get it out there because Henry
was facing the death penalty, see?
439
00:25:21,770 --> 00:25:25,230
Henry Lee Lucas told investigators
he murdered Becky Powell here.
440
00:25:25,649 --> 00:25:26,779
Everyone believed him.
441
00:25:27,275 --> 00:25:28,315
Until now.
442
00:25:28,401 --> 00:25:31,531
We were there, but he did not cut me up...
443
00:25:32,822 --> 00:25:35,702
and throw me...
throw my body parts everywhere.
444
00:25:36,284 --> 00:25:37,794
Meet Becky Powell.
445
00:25:43,416 --> 00:25:46,456
I was shocked to find out I was dead.
446
00:25:46,711 --> 00:25:48,631
She also claims
she was with Lucas
447
00:25:48,713 --> 00:25:52,803
the night the unidentified woman
only known as "Orange Socks" was murdered.
448
00:25:52,884 --> 00:25:55,934
Enough, attorneys believe,
to overturn Lucas' death sentence.
449
00:25:56,471 --> 00:25:59,221
He was trick-or-treating with me
and my brother Frank
450
00:25:59,307 --> 00:26:00,887
in Jacksonville, Florida,
451
00:26:00,976 --> 00:26:03,596
at the time that Orange Socks was killed.
452
00:26:04,145 --> 00:26:07,935
Give me odds that this is Becky Powell.
453
00:26:08,024 --> 00:26:09,234
Oh, a hundred percent.
454
00:26:09,317 --> 00:26:11,857
And when the, uh, DNA comes in,
455
00:26:12,153 --> 00:26:14,493
then that'll confirm
it's a hundred percent.
456
00:26:14,573 --> 00:26:15,873
I'm very confident,
457
00:26:16,157 --> 00:26:19,197
but it's easy to be confident
when you're holding a royal flush.
458
00:26:19,744 --> 00:26:20,834
This is Becky.
459
00:26:21,204 --> 00:26:23,254
Investigative reporter
Hugh Aynesworth
460
00:26:23,331 --> 00:26:25,251
is an authority on the Lucas case.
461
00:26:25,750 --> 00:26:28,000
He, too, says the woman is Becky Powell.
462
00:26:28,086 --> 00:26:30,876
She knows specifics about family,
463
00:26:31,131 --> 00:26:32,631
about housing units,
464
00:26:32,716 --> 00:26:34,506
about streets, about neighbors,
465
00:26:34,593 --> 00:26:37,353
about happenings, dates,
things of that sort.
466
00:26:37,804 --> 00:26:40,524
I spent a good bit of time with her
and I'm convinced.
467
00:26:41,975 --> 00:26:45,395
Then I might add,
why would you want to be Becky Powell?
468
00:26:52,110 --> 00:26:55,280
I got a call from Vic Feazell
saying that, uh...
469
00:26:55,905 --> 00:26:57,155
he had found Becky.
470
00:26:57,782 --> 00:27:00,582
He wanted DNA run
471
00:27:00,660 --> 00:27:02,870
to prove that Becky was still alive.
472
00:27:03,455 --> 00:27:04,455
And, of course,
473
00:27:05,206 --> 00:27:08,536
you know, I'm sitting there
and I'm-I'm-I'm knowing in my own mind
474
00:27:08,918 --> 00:27:11,248
that Henry confessed to killing her,
475
00:27:11,755 --> 00:27:13,335
confessed to how he killed her,
476
00:27:13,757 --> 00:27:16,637
pointed to the ground
where we'd dig up part of her.
477
00:27:17,594 --> 00:27:18,684
You know, that's just...
478
00:27:18,762 --> 00:27:20,682
You don't write
that many coincidences off.
479
00:27:21,264 --> 00:27:24,064
So we need to put this fire out
as fast as possible.
480
00:27:24,351 --> 00:27:27,231
So I told him, I said,
"Well, let's put her under oath and...
481
00:27:27,312 --> 00:27:29,942
uh, make sure
that she's telling the truth."
482
00:27:30,607 --> 00:27:33,647
When he said that,
it kind of ran up a red flag.
483
00:27:34,027 --> 00:27:36,027
Like, "Hmm, under oath."
484
00:27:36,112 --> 00:27:38,912
That means he might be wanting
to get her for perjury.
485
00:27:39,741 --> 00:27:40,831
So, uh...
486
00:27:40,909 --> 00:27:43,369
I had a real come-to-Jesus meeting
with her.
487
00:27:45,038 --> 00:27:46,828
We sat and talked.
488
00:27:46,915 --> 00:27:50,285
In the meantime, I asked my wife
to go and look through her luggage.
489
00:27:51,544 --> 00:27:54,764
And my wife called me into the house
about an hour later.
490
00:27:54,839 --> 00:27:58,179
She said, "Oh, my God,
I found a stack of letters like this
491
00:27:58,259 --> 00:28:00,219
between her and Henry Lucas."
492
00:28:00,679 --> 00:28:03,219
And Henry was describing for her
493
00:28:03,306 --> 00:28:04,846
what the house looked like,
494
00:28:04,933 --> 00:28:08,063
what Becky's house looked like,
what, uh...
495
00:28:08,144 --> 00:28:11,774
you know, how they met, all the trips,
all that kind of stuff.
496
00:28:11,856 --> 00:28:13,816
I mean, I just... I dropped.
497
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:15,489
I dropped.
498
00:28:15,568 --> 00:28:18,698
I th... I think I felt worse that day
than the day I got arrested.
499
00:28:20,365 --> 00:28:22,275
Well, I'm a liar and a fraud.
500
00:28:22,951 --> 00:28:27,291
I asked Henry, I said,
"Well, what if I said I was Becky Powell?"
501
00:28:28,873 --> 00:28:31,213
At first, he said it would never work,
502
00:28:31,292 --> 00:28:32,842
and I said, "Why not?"
503
00:28:33,628 --> 00:28:36,968
And, um, he said,
"Well, were you ever fingerprinted?"
504
00:28:37,048 --> 00:28:38,088
And I said, "No."
505
00:28:41,511 --> 00:28:43,221
I am in love with Henry.
506
00:28:43,596 --> 00:28:45,716
I'd do anything in the world for Henry.
507
00:28:46,224 --> 00:28:48,354
That's all I wanted to do,
508
00:28:48,435 --> 00:28:50,765
was to get Henry out of prison.
509
00:28:56,109 --> 00:29:00,029
I guess I got my mind
to feeling like I was...
510
00:29:00,572 --> 00:29:04,162
her, because I wanted
to pull this off so bad.
511
00:29:05,076 --> 00:29:07,286
One of the reasons why I wanted
to write to him
512
00:29:07,370 --> 00:29:10,290
is because of his track record,
513
00:29:10,373 --> 00:29:12,463
because he killed so many people.
514
00:29:12,542 --> 00:29:16,002
How did you come to meet the woman
who said that she was Becky Powell?
515
00:29:16,087 --> 00:29:19,087
Well, she comes down,
and when I first saw her, I said,
516
00:29:19,174 --> 00:29:21,094
"What... What you... What you want?"
You know?
517
00:29:21,176 --> 00:29:22,586
I said, "Are you Frieda?"
518
00:29:22,677 --> 00:29:23,677
She said, "Yeah."
519
00:29:25,930 --> 00:29:27,810
- Did you believe she was?
- Yeah.
520
00:29:29,476 --> 00:29:30,476
Do you still?
521
00:29:32,479 --> 00:29:35,149
It was just my first visit with him,
and he just...
522
00:29:35,231 --> 00:29:37,861
I just fell in love with him, and...
523
00:29:39,778 --> 00:29:43,658
he was the nicest,
kindest man I ever met, really.
524
00:29:45,742 --> 00:29:49,872
Henry was feeding me all this information
through his letters,
525
00:29:50,246 --> 00:29:54,666
but in various parts of the letters
so they wouldn't catch on.
526
00:29:55,418 --> 00:29:58,798
Do you believe
that Becky is out there?
527
00:29:59,172 --> 00:30:01,632
No. I believe she's dead.
528
00:30:04,177 --> 00:30:05,927
I think Henry killed her.
529
00:30:06,930 --> 00:30:09,930
Your attorney is very fearful
that you were part of this lie.
530
00:30:10,016 --> 00:30:11,016
Well, I'm not.
531
00:30:11,351 --> 00:30:14,191
She claims
that she also visited John Wayne Gacy
532
00:30:14,270 --> 00:30:15,400
and also Charles Manson.
533
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,820
I can't say that,
because I don't know.
534
00:30:18,358 --> 00:30:19,978
Charles Manson...
535
00:30:20,443 --> 00:30:21,613
I told him, I said,
536
00:30:21,694 --> 00:30:24,364
"I think it's about time
you get out of prison."
537
00:30:24,447 --> 00:30:27,117
He said,
"I don't wanna get out of prison."
538
00:30:27,575 --> 00:30:29,905
He said, "You people are crazy."
539
00:30:38,127 --> 00:30:39,957
I'd been fighting this battle,
540
00:30:41,130 --> 00:30:43,340
and I wanted it so bad, I believed it.
541
00:30:45,343 --> 00:30:48,643
I felt it would give me back
my reputation,
542
00:30:49,138 --> 00:30:50,768
and all it did was hurt it.
543
00:30:55,353 --> 00:30:57,063
I was angry at Phyllis.
544
00:30:57,146 --> 00:30:58,606
I was angry at Henry.
545
00:30:58,857 --> 00:31:00,277
I was angry at myself.
546
00:31:01,067 --> 00:31:04,897
And that's when I quit representing Henry.
547
00:31:05,947 --> 00:31:08,447
He wrote me
some pretty sad letters after that,
548
00:31:08,533 --> 00:31:10,663
but, by then, I had just had enough.
549
00:31:11,744 --> 00:31:15,084
This scam blowing up in your face,
do you think this has hurt your chances...
550
00:31:15,164 --> 00:31:18,384
I don't know whether it's a scam or not.
You people are telling me that.
551
00:31:18,918 --> 00:31:21,918
Are you mad because it means
you're that much closer to execution?
552
00:31:22,005 --> 00:31:23,125
No, it does not.
553
00:31:23,214 --> 00:31:25,514
I don't give a damn
if I was executed tomorrow,
554
00:31:25,592 --> 00:31:26,892
you understand that?
555
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,350
Then why are you so upset?
556
00:31:29,429 --> 00:31:32,469
Why? Because of all the damn lies
that's going on.
557
00:31:32,807 --> 00:31:33,807
That's why.
558
00:31:43,651 --> 00:31:47,911
Henry was accustomed
to undergoing psychological tests.
559
00:31:48,948 --> 00:31:51,448
He was incarcerated as a teenager.
560
00:31:52,035 --> 00:31:56,035
There were psychological reports from then
until the end of his life.
561
00:32:02,337 --> 00:32:05,837
Among them was a test for confabulation.
562
00:32:07,550 --> 00:32:11,140
Confabulation is a type
of memory impairment.
563
00:32:11,554 --> 00:32:15,984
In other words, a person has gaps
in the memory,
564
00:32:16,476 --> 00:32:21,856
and those gaps are automatically filled in
with invented information.
565
00:32:23,149 --> 00:32:26,439
In this test, he was off the scale.
566
00:32:27,779 --> 00:32:30,619
Henry would take facts,
567
00:32:30,698 --> 00:32:33,198
and then he would add fantasy,
568
00:32:33,409 --> 00:32:37,659
and then he would add what he thought
the person he was addressing
569
00:32:37,747 --> 00:32:39,327
needed or wanted,
570
00:32:39,415 --> 00:32:41,705
and that would create a new truth.
571
00:32:42,251 --> 00:32:46,211
And that truth would shift
from moment to moment.
572
00:32:46,297 --> 00:32:48,837
How many people, really, did you kill?
573
00:32:49,342 --> 00:32:50,222
It'll be...
574
00:32:50,301 --> 00:32:53,351
When it's finished,
I look for it to be over 360.
575
00:32:53,429 --> 00:32:55,559
It'll be way over 500.
576
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,100
My mother, back in 1960.
577
00:32:59,310 --> 00:33:01,690
That is the only murder
I've ever committed.
578
00:33:02,230 --> 00:33:04,480
And I'm not positive
I even committed that.
579
00:33:04,899 --> 00:33:06,029
Are you a, uh...
580
00:33:06,776 --> 00:33:09,196
- pathological liar, you think?
- Yeah.
581
00:33:10,238 --> 00:33:12,466
- I am.
- Are you telling me the truth now?
582
00:33:12,490 --> 00:33:15,620
Yes, I'm telling you the truth,
because I can prove it, you know?
583
00:33:15,702 --> 00:33:18,332
- Why should I believe that?
- I don't expect you to.
584
00:33:18,413 --> 00:33:20,373
I expect you to find out the truth.
585
00:33:21,332 --> 00:33:23,792
- You know...
- He never thought long-term.
586
00:33:24,085 --> 00:33:27,165
I think that was part
of his mental illness, actually.
587
00:33:28,172 --> 00:33:31,382
He was very focused
on surviving moment to moment,
588
00:33:31,676 --> 00:33:34,136
and whatever was needed,
he was gonna give it,
589
00:33:34,554 --> 00:33:37,354
without thinking
about any kind of consequences
590
00:33:37,432 --> 00:33:39,772
for anyone, himself or anyone else.
591
00:33:40,643 --> 00:33:43,483
Henry Lucas did not know
what the truth was.
592
00:34:04,959 --> 00:34:06,919
Texas Governor George W. Bush
593
00:34:07,003 --> 00:34:10,213
is pondering the fate
of multiple murderer Henry Lee Lucas,
594
00:34:10,298 --> 00:34:12,218
scheduled for execution next Tuesday.
595
00:34:12,300 --> 00:34:15,220
There are some questions
as to whether not Henry Lee Lucas,
596
00:34:15,303 --> 00:34:18,893
uh, committed the particular crime
that he was accused of.
597
00:34:18,973 --> 00:34:21,273
There's no question
he committed some of the other crimes.
598
00:34:23,102 --> 00:34:26,482
I was interviewing Governor Bush
at the time,
599
00:34:27,190 --> 00:34:29,480
and I said, "George, by the way...
600
00:34:30,359 --> 00:34:32,899
you're... you're gonna put a guy
to death Saturday
601
00:34:33,738 --> 00:34:35,318
that is innocent."
602
00:34:35,907 --> 00:34:39,077
I had occasion
to run into Governor Bush at a function.
603
00:34:39,744 --> 00:34:43,624
I said, "There is now a death sentence
on your desk.
604
00:34:43,831 --> 00:34:46,041
It involves a client of mine,
605
00:34:46,542 --> 00:34:49,592
that I firmly believe
in that client's innocence.
606
00:34:49,670 --> 00:34:50,710
It's Henry Lee Lucas."
607
00:34:55,301 --> 00:34:57,431
I heard on TV that...
608
00:34:57,887 --> 00:35:01,267
it's looking like this...
this could possibly happen.
609
00:35:01,349 --> 00:35:02,889
He could get off of death row.
610
00:35:04,310 --> 00:35:06,350
He confessed to killing my mother.
611
00:35:08,439 --> 00:35:11,689
I have read things in his confession
612
00:35:12,568 --> 00:35:15,608
that sounded like my mother,
the way he described my mother.
613
00:35:17,573 --> 00:35:18,993
I was convinced.
614
00:35:19,867 --> 00:35:23,037
In my heart, I feel that Henry Lee Lucas
did kill my sister.
615
00:35:24,205 --> 00:35:26,365
Lucas was convicted of her death.
616
00:35:27,208 --> 00:35:29,418
I believe that he was an animal,
617
00:35:29,919 --> 00:35:32,379
obtaining his 15 minutes of fame,
618
00:35:32,463 --> 00:35:34,093
glorifying himself.
619
00:35:35,424 --> 00:35:37,764
I had to see this man executed.
620
00:35:38,761 --> 00:35:41,261
Well, of course we wanted Lucas to die!
621
00:35:42,765 --> 00:35:44,305
Yes, we wanted him dead.
622
00:35:45,017 --> 00:35:47,437
Henry Lee Lucas murdered my sister,
Laura Jean Donez.
623
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,770
Henry Lee Lucas murdered my mother,
Joan Gilmore.
624
00:35:50,857 --> 00:35:53,437
Henry Lee Lucas killed my sister,
Rita Salazar.
625
00:35:54,694 --> 00:35:56,244
I organized the group
626
00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:00,370
so we could fight against people
who were saying Lucas was innocent.
627
00:36:01,784 --> 00:36:03,044
Whether he...
628
00:36:03,119 --> 00:36:06,119
killed that woman or not,
what about these other...
629
00:36:06,205 --> 00:36:08,615
What about my mother?
What about all our other family?
630
00:36:08,708 --> 00:36:10,498
You know, what about
all these other victims?
631
00:36:11,460 --> 00:36:13,550
He can't get off death row. He can't.
632
00:36:18,259 --> 00:36:20,849
The first question I ask
in every case
633
00:36:20,928 --> 00:36:22,888
is whether or not there is any doubt,
634
00:36:23,848 --> 00:36:24,848
any doubt,
635
00:36:25,057 --> 00:36:27,307
about an individual's guilt or innocence.
636
00:36:28,477 --> 00:36:30,187
This is the first case I...
637
00:36:30,271 --> 00:36:32,791
since I have been the governor
where the answer to that question
638
00:36:32,857 --> 00:36:35,027
is yes, there's doubt.
639
00:36:36,819 --> 00:36:39,989
Henry Lee Lucas is unquestionably guilty
640
00:36:40,072 --> 00:36:41,822
of other despicable crimes
641
00:36:41,908 --> 00:36:45,488
for which he has been sentenced
to spend the rest of his life in prison.
642
00:36:46,204 --> 00:36:47,204
However,
643
00:36:47,622 --> 00:36:49,672
I believe that there is enough doubt
644
00:36:50,333 --> 00:36:52,343
about this particular crime
645
00:36:52,919 --> 00:36:56,339
that the state of Texas
should not impose its ultimate penalty
646
00:36:56,881 --> 00:36:58,171
by executing him.
647
00:36:59,383 --> 00:37:00,553
Okay, you take care, Henry.
648
00:37:00,635 --> 00:37:02,465
Lucas's attorney
Rita Radostitz
649
00:37:02,553 --> 00:37:04,473
was the first to notify Lucas.
650
00:37:04,555 --> 00:37:05,885
He didn't have anything to say.
651
00:37:05,973 --> 00:37:08,563
- He was very emotional. Um...
- Was he crying?
652
00:37:08,643 --> 00:37:12,023
He said he wasn't, but as I said,
you can never believe anything Henry says.
653
00:37:20,696 --> 00:37:23,866
I think there are people who will
see this tonight who will say, um,
654
00:37:23,950 --> 00:37:26,950
they're not sure whether you're crying
for those families or for yourself.
655
00:37:31,207 --> 00:37:32,537
Well, God knows.
656
00:37:35,503 --> 00:37:36,843
I wasn't happy.
657
00:37:37,838 --> 00:37:39,838
I was livid.
658
00:37:40,466 --> 00:37:43,676
Rosanna Fuentes
was going to see Lucas executed.
659
00:37:43,886 --> 00:37:48,016
He was convicted of murdering
her younger sister back in 1983.
660
00:37:48,599 --> 00:37:49,639
I voted for him.
661
00:37:50,851 --> 00:37:51,981
I won't do it again.
662
00:37:52,061 --> 00:37:55,101
These victims' relatives say
they want to meet with the governor.
663
00:37:55,147 --> 00:37:57,017
They want to see cases reopened
664
00:37:57,108 --> 00:37:59,108
in which Lucas was never tried
665
00:37:59,193 --> 00:38:02,113
in hopes
of getting another death sentence.
666
00:38:02,196 --> 00:38:05,656
Mr. Bush, what if it was your loved one,
667
00:38:05,950 --> 00:38:06,950
your mother,
668
00:38:07,743 --> 00:38:10,293
your daughter that got killed?
669
00:38:12,290 --> 00:38:13,870
I started faxing
670
00:38:14,417 --> 00:38:16,627
newspapers all over the US
671
00:38:16,711 --> 00:38:19,961
that Governor Bush
was siding with a serial killer.
672
00:38:23,634 --> 00:38:26,304
Governor Bush was running for president,
673
00:38:26,762 --> 00:38:29,812
and he didn't want the bad publicity.
674
00:38:31,517 --> 00:38:34,017
His attorneys called me and said,
675
00:38:34,562 --> 00:38:36,112
"What do you want?"
676
00:38:37,773 --> 00:38:41,903
I asked the governor to test for DNA.
677
00:38:43,070 --> 00:38:45,610
There was DNA on her underclothes,
678
00:38:46,198 --> 00:38:47,198
from the rape.
679
00:38:50,995 --> 00:38:53,405
We wanted to prove that he was guilty.
680
00:38:54,915 --> 00:38:57,035
We wanted him to stay on death row.
681
00:38:58,002 --> 00:39:00,002
We wanted him executed.
682
00:39:09,722 --> 00:39:11,432
All right.
683
00:39:25,863 --> 00:39:29,123
I remember getting the call
that Henry was dead.
684
00:39:31,786 --> 00:39:34,116
I was actually invited to his funeral.
685
00:39:35,498 --> 00:39:38,248
But I wasn't gonna get up on a cold day
and drive down there
686
00:39:38,334 --> 00:39:41,424
and watch somebody
who'd lied to me like he did,
687
00:39:41,712 --> 00:39:43,672
uh, get buried.
688
00:39:47,468 --> 00:39:49,298
He died of natural causes.
689
00:39:50,471 --> 00:39:52,181
So, what he...
690
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,890
died knowing, died with him.
691
00:40:15,871 --> 00:40:18,541
There were only a few people
at Henry's funeral.
692
00:40:19,375 --> 00:40:21,745
The preacher and Clemmie.
693
00:40:28,968 --> 00:40:32,348
I read a letter
that Henry wanted me to read,
694
00:40:32,763 --> 00:40:36,773
asking the people
to forgive him for lying.
695
00:40:38,185 --> 00:40:41,725
Then we sang "Amazing Grace."
696
00:40:44,442 --> 00:40:49,492
Pretty soon, it was
like millions of singers overhead,
697
00:40:49,572 --> 00:40:51,912
millions of angels singing.
698
00:40:52,908 --> 00:40:57,288
The most beautiful voices
I have ever heard in my life.
699
00:41:14,138 --> 00:41:16,138
How many people did Lucas kill?
700
00:41:16,223 --> 00:41:17,933
At least three, maybe more.
701
00:41:18,017 --> 00:41:19,977
What about
the hundreds of confessions?
702
00:41:20,060 --> 00:41:22,980
If Lucas didn't kill
all of those people, who did?
703
00:41:23,063 --> 00:41:25,573
The truth about Lucas
may never be known.
704
00:41:35,826 --> 00:41:37,196
I was a detective
705
00:41:37,286 --> 00:41:39,406
for the Williamson County
Sheriff's Office.
706
00:41:47,671 --> 00:41:51,341
DNA was just becoming
a popular investigative technique.
707
00:41:57,556 --> 00:42:00,306
I was asked to investigate
three different cases,
708
00:42:01,227 --> 00:42:03,347
all three of which Sheriff Boutwell closed
709
00:42:03,437 --> 00:42:05,937
with Henry Lee Lucas' confessions.
710
00:42:08,692 --> 00:42:09,862
Well, he's, uh...
711
00:42:10,819 --> 00:42:14,109
directed us
to the, uh, scene of another murder.
712
00:42:14,698 --> 00:42:17,427
We went on up the road, uh...
713
00:42:17,451 --> 00:42:20,081
About 55 miles from here,
714
00:42:20,746 --> 00:42:22,406
is where we shot the girl at.
715
00:42:24,083 --> 00:42:25,923
He knew exactly, within one mile,
716
00:42:26,001 --> 00:42:27,341
how far the...
717
00:42:28,128 --> 00:42:29,918
Rita's body was dumped.
718
00:42:31,715 --> 00:42:34,125
There's no way he would have known
any of that...
719
00:42:35,302 --> 00:42:37,472
if he was not told by somebody,
720
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,520
because, as we know now,
he had nothing to do with the murder.
721
00:42:45,646 --> 00:42:50,646
The point that the sheriff
stopped being a hero for... for me...
722
00:42:51,986 --> 00:42:54,316
is when we found out that, um...
723
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:59,119
the two strands of DNA
didn't match Henry Lucas.
724
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,330
Then I knew, at that point,
that everything was a lie.
725
00:43:03,414 --> 00:43:07,544
As far as I'm concerned,
he has confirmed both cases.
726
00:43:07,626 --> 00:43:08,456
Thank you.
727
00:43:08,544 --> 00:43:09,544
Thank you.
728
00:43:11,505 --> 00:43:14,965
Sheriff Boutwell was feeding
Henry Lee Lucas the information,
729
00:43:15,050 --> 00:43:20,350
and closed cases, and lied to people about
who killed their loved ones.
730
00:43:24,101 --> 00:43:26,691
We were lied to for 20 years.
731
00:43:26,770 --> 00:43:29,860
We believed Henry did it for 20 years.
732
00:43:32,610 --> 00:43:35,610
And then we found out
who the real killer was.
56955
Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.