Original subtitles

Don't move!

Get down on the floor!

Get down on the floor now!

Get down on the floor!

I said don't fucking move.

What's your full name?

Please don't hurt me.

You wet your bloody self huh?

Who are you?

- This his stuff? -Yeah.

Sure you got everything? It wasn't my idea.

Dirty Fleming, this is your life.

Date of birth?

Date of birth?

2nd of August 1956.

-You live at this address? -Uh yes.

Do you own this place Mr Fleming?

Um no, I rent.

-How was it? -Piece of cake.

Once we're in, he knew who we were.

He was uh...

Reasonable?

What offence?

You're joking.

Look I'm sorry I didn't realize who you were

but you did break down my door.

Look, please, what's all this about?

Have you got anything here that you shouldn't have?

Remember he's only a suspect, so no tunnel vision

Well I haven't stolen anything.

What's he doing? That's not stolen.

Look, he's taking my things.

Mr Fleming we'd like you to come down to our office,

we've got a few questions to put to ya.

What office, where?

Down at the station Mr Fleming.

Why, do I have to?

You can ask me anything you want here.

What do you wanna know?

Well, it's a bit more complicated than that Mr Fleming.

You don't have a choice, right?

Yeah, I'm sorry.

Look I can't go like this.

Can I change my clothes please?

Turn around.

Thank you.

Look I didn't realize.

You don't need to do this.

Just get on with it.

Yeah?

Uh, somebody help me please?

Mr Fleming, are you alright?

They've been asking me about you. What is this?

I dunno, I'll be back soon and then I'll explain.

I'm really sorry.

What's going on up there?

They're taking Mr Fleming away.

Sir?

CIB, Prior.

-21387. -Thank you.

Gee, I like your shoes.

Italian aren't they?

No.

Where'd you get them?

David Jones.

David Jones, really?

You wanna coffee?

Sure you won't wet ya pants.

I'm sorry to keep you waiting for so long Mr Fleming,

I'm sure you understand.

Well no, no I don't understand.

You're here to help us with our inquiries.

What inquiries?

How's your coffee Mr Fleming?

It's fine.

Think I'll be here very long?

That depends, don't it, Mr Fleming?

Depends on what?

Do you think I could get these off please?

Thank you.

Do you drive a car, Mr Fleming?

Car? No, I don't.

Ever owned a car?

Yeah of course, until I was retrenched.

Can't run a car on the dole now.

No, I don't s'pose you can.

Bit tough is it?

Ah it's just one of the many things you find

you can actually do without.

Wayne?

What?

Senior Detective to you.

Yes, sir.

Your newspapers?

Yeah right.

I want you to go through every single one of them.

-All of them? -Every single bloody one.

You better not miss anything.

Yes sir.

Oh there's gotta be thousands of us.

I used to live well, good job you know?

Until everything went down the drain.

Now it's just nothing.

I was one of 200 retrenched in the company.

I lost my house and my wife.

I lost it all.

Was it a crime?

No, Mr Fleming, it's not

and you're right, there're a lot of people in a similar position.

I've got a brother in law in the same situation.

Perhaps, but he's not sitting in a police station

talking to the likes of you.

No, no he's not.

Who are you?

I mean what do you really want?

I'm gonna start a formal interview Mr Fleming.

Can I have something to eat, please?

Not bloody likely.

But I haven't eaten anything since yesterday afternoon.

I'll see what we can do.

Interview between Detective Sergeant John Steele

and Edward Fleming, Lorgan CIB.

Detective Senior Constable Wayne Prior also present.

What is your full and correct name?

Edward Rodney Fleming.

Do you agree the time is now 7:57 am?

Yes.

Mr Fleming, I intend to ask you some questions

in relation to the theft of a motor vehicle,

registration number KCR 109.

What?

Stolen car?

What, you break down my door for a stolen car

and you hand cuff me for a stolen car?

What stolen car? I don't know anything about a stolen car.

Will you sit down please Mr Fleming?

Sit down please.

I must advise you

that you do not have to say or do anything

but anything you say or do may be given in evidence.

Do you understand that?

I don't believe this.

Good, then you won't have a problem

telling me about your movements, will ya?

I don't have a problem telling you anything

if only you'll actually ask me something.

Did you go out yesterday?

Yesterday, yes, I went to the local grocery shop.

And what did you get?

A tin of food and newspapers,

milk, that sort of thing.

Why do you shop at the local grocery shop?

Isn't it a bit more expensive than the supermarket?

You know, for somebody that's on the dole?

Well, if I'm running a bit short they let me have a tab.

And I like them, they're friendly.

Is that why you shop there everyday is it?

For someone to talk to?

I never really thought about it before but yeah, I suppose that's part of it.

I mean you try losing your job, your livelihood,

your family, you see how many friends you got left.

Not many I guess.

Do you agree that the time is now 7:59 am?

Yes.

I intend to interrupt this interview

for the purpose of making further inquires.

What, is that it?

No, no, not yet.

What about the stolen car?

What about it?

Well you're gonna ask me some questions about it.

All in good time Mr Fleming.

That rattled the bastard.

There's nothing from the other tenant.

Seems pretty straight, what do you think?

He's a clean skin.

Get somebody back there, check out his local shops.

Let's dig into these people.

Yeah we've done all that.

I wanna know about dates and times.

I wanna know what they think of him, anything they might've noticed.

Why are we wasting our time with this?

Come on he's our man, let me talk to him a bit will you?

Listen.

Fleming might well be a car thief,

but if we can't make this stand up in court

then we've got nothing, understand that?

-Fair go, Steele. -You got that?

Yes John, perfect.

Alright, then you keep your bloody mouth shut

and just get on with it.

Anything?

Hm, I wish.

Just a little short on bloody evidence.

Oh yeah? Like being a little bit pregnant.

Yeah, okay, well he's the closest fit we've got.

Alright.

So what are John's thoughts?

Well you better ask him, sir.

Is there a problem?

Well, sir, all I can say is

it's a pity that I still run refresher courses.

Thank you for coming in at such short notice, Mrs Beecroft.

Not at all.

Now, we're not necessarily all that advanced

from when we last spoke.

We need you to look at some items over here

and see if you recognise any of them.

Are you up to that?

I hope I can be of some help.

Sheila! G'day, how are you?

Fine thanks, John.

That's good, now look, just have a seat here for us.

Can we get ya a cup of tea? Cup of coffee or something?

No, thank you.

Now look, these are all the items we'd like you to have a look at.

Now, there's no hurry, you just take your time.

But it's important that if there is anything here

from your husbands car, that you do identify it.

I'll do my best.

Alright, just take your time.

Keep a close eye on her, no prompting alright?

Yeah yea, heads up.

Take a seat.

What's the bastard doing here?

The hierarchy gave him permission.

It's got nothing to do with me.

He's gonna do a feature article on crime squads.

Oh, the hierarchy, huh?

Make sure he spells your name right.

Might be your name as well.

He's been asking me about one of your inquiries.

Wants to talk to you.

No, you tell him to get fucked.

He's got permission so you'll live with it.

I haven't got time for this shit.

Mate I deal with thieves all the time.

Frankly, I respect a good thief.

But liars I just can't understand.

Look, I said I would help if I could and I mean it.

How can I help if I don't know anything?

I just wanna get this over with please?

Good.

Mr Fleming, we're concerned with the theft of a motor vehicle

as I have mentioned in particular,

a two-tone, EH Holden station wagon,

registration number KCR 109.

Yeah, I told you I don't know anything about it.

Have you been out of town recently?

How recent?

Say, in the last month or so?

Yes, I took the train to Ballarat.

Ah, you do a bit of country travelling do ya?

Occasionally, just to get away you know?

And how do you manage that on the dole?

I couldn't do it if I wasn't.

They give you cheap travel when you're unemployed

and then subsidize you when you're looking for work.

Oh that's why you're up there?

Yes.

And when exactly did you go to Ballarat?

Two or three months ago, I'm not sure of the date.

Oh you must have some idea?

You said you're up there looking for work?

Must've had an appointment.

No, it's seasonal work, you just knock on the door.

I was too late.

That must've been frustrating.

Ah no, not really.

When you're alone with no job, you have to make the effort.

And what effort's that?

To get out and about and keep in tune with people

in the outside world.

And what was this seasonal work?

It was a bit of fruit picking.

What, in Ballarat?

That's sheep country isn't it?

Yes, they also grow olives up there.

So how long did you stay?

Just the one night I think

and then I caught the train straight back.

Right.

Can you remember the date that you went, Mr Fleming?

It would be helpful.

Today is the 14th.

It would've be the uh,

21st, best of my recollections.

Actually, I stayed away for two nights, not just the one.

Ah good.

Where'd you stay?

Salvation Army hostel.

Thank God for the Salvos.

This the car, is it?

I'm sorry, I don't know it.

You sure?

Well, where am I supposed to have seen it?

You've never been in it then?

No, how could I have been?

Look there must be thousands of those Holden's out there

and I tell you I've never been in any of them.

Now is that it?

No, no, not quite.

Could we get you another cup of coffee, Mr Fleming?

No, but look, if this is gonna go on much longer,

I'm gonna have to have something to eat if that's possible.

Yeah sure, I'll see what we can do.

I'm interrupting this interview for the purpose of making further inquiries.

Nothin'.

Never identified a bloody thing.

How's she coping?

Not real well.

I'm gonna get some of this stuff sent over to forensic.

I need this checked.

Now we're getting somewhere.

Prick admits he's been to Ballarat does he?

There we go, train ticket to Ballarat dated the 21st.

So far he's a truth teller.

I've checked him local grocer,

reckons he's a top bloke

and he never misses a day unless he's crook,

always pays the bill, polite, friendly, blahdy fuckin' blah.

The sort of arsehole you really can't stand.

Some of the handwriting samples from the apartment

are similar to the ones we've got.

Right, we'll let the room keep workin' on him for a while.

What else?

Well I got Prowse heads down arse up in the newspapers.

So far they're all there for the relevant dates

which doesn't help our case.

And there's not much else at the moment.

Tell you what I'll do.

I'll get the Ballarat CIB to check out the Salvos

and I'll give the railways a call.

No no, flick it to Prowse.

Fleming's a lonely sort of person,

the more he's encouraged the more he talks.

Let's get on with it.

John, how you goin'?

Wallsy, what can I do for ya?

Inspector Jackson said I might have a word with ya?

Oh is that right?

That's bloody big of him.

Listen mate, give me a ring later on today will ya?

I've got an interview going at the moment.

Wouldn't be the Big Prop bloke would it? I saw his missus in here.

You know I always thought he might've done a runner.

And how would you know it was his missus?

I heard the name and just assumed you know?

No I don't know.

It's not Beecroft is it?

A bigger fish.

You got a hide like a bloody rhinoceros haven't you?

The last story you did on this office,

you published a photo you nicked off my desk.

You killed the whole bloody inquiry.

Well no wonder you haven't been returning my calls.

Now what makes you think I nicked it?

Listen don't come on that bloody line with me.

This wouldn't have something to do

with little closet copper sittin' over there now would it?

Mate, I know half the coppers in the job, including you.

Still in one piece is he?

Fuck off.

Interview between Detective Sergeant John Steele

and Edward Rodney Fleming.

Recommenced.

Time is now 8:48am.

Detective Senior Constable Wayne Prior also present.

Mr Fleming, have you ever heard of an Andrew Beecroft?

Andrew Beecroft, no I don't think so.

Where should I know him from?

Well you may have got something in common?

I do?

Yeah you're both outta work.

I see. Look, could I have something to eat sir?

Yes, it's on it's way.

We'd like you to have a look at this Mr Fleming.

What is it?

Well what does it say?

It's a transfer document for a motor vehicle.

For the record,

it's the transfer of ownership of Mr Beecroft's car.

Registration number KCR 109.

So what's it got to do with me?

Can you read the signatures on the bottom?

A. Beecroft and Paul...

no Peter Williams.

A few months ago,

Mr Beecroft was driving to Horsham to start a new job

at the local granary.

And for no apparent reason,

he just sold his car to a bloke called Peter Williams.

Who sold it to a cocky in store.

I don't understand.

Oh yes you do, Mr Fleming.

Have another look at the transfer document.

Well what am I supposed to be looking for?

Williams tried to make it look like Beecroft

had signed the car over to him.

Now forensic have had a look at that document

and we know that both those signatures were forged.

Really?

What's that got to do with me?

Have you ever used the name Peter Williams?

No of course not, I've only got one name and it's Fleming.

-Well, ever had your name changed? - No.

Ever used an alias?

Absolutely not, that's outrageous.

I asked you to have another look at those signatures.

Do you recognise either of them?

A. Beecroft and Peter Williams, they're just names to me.

Why am I supposed to recognise them?

That's from my notebook.

Yes we picked it up at your place this morning.

What are you doing?

Now come on Mr Fleming you know.

Well you're not gonna tell me

that my writing's the same as these signatures.

I mean, wait a sec, they don't even look the same.

They're both you're handwriting, Mr Fleming.

This is a lie, I don't believe you. What is this?

You know much about the characteristics of handwriting do you, Mr Fleming?

Look, please, I don't understand. I didn't steal any car

and I don't know any Andrew Beecroft or Peter Williams

and that handwriting's nothing like mine, look at it.

Well this is from a rental agreement on my flat,

what are you doing with it?

We got it from your estate agent a while back.

Look, I think you better tell me exactly what this is about.

Would you care to have a look at the handwriting

on the transfer document again?

Now our handwriting experts have made a detailed comparison.

It's your handwriting.

Well maybe you better get new handwriting experts

because I've never said that slip

and I've never wrote those signatures.

We've got something else here for you.

I'd like to see if you can identify this.

It's a letter.

Yeah it's a letter.

I hope you're not suggesting that this is also my handwriting?

Well, that's what the document examination expert states.

Well then I'm sorry but it's completely wrong.

I've never written like that in my life.

All the writing characteristics match up.

Same as the ones in other documents here.

Maybe they're the same but I didn't write them.

Look, I'll show you how I write.

No no, that's alright, Mr Fleming.

But I must advise you,

that our forensic people are checking

this writing paper

against writing pads from your apartment

to see if they're from the same source.

I did not write that letter

and that is not my paper.

And if you think you can intimidate me into saying whatever it is you wanna hear

then you can think again.

No one's trying to intimidate you Mr Fleming.

There are just certain questions that have to be put to you, it's my job.

Yeah well it's not much of a job.

Yes, well sometimes it feels like that to me too.

But look at the facts.

That letter was sent to Beecroft's wife about eight weeks ago.

That says that Beecroft was supposedly doing

a lot of driving around and he was so busy

that he got Williams to write the letter.

It also says that he sold his car to Williams.

Now what does that sound like to you?

I don't know, it sounds a bit thin, like somebody's trying to cover up.

Yes, we think so too.

It also sounds like somebody trying to buy a bit of time.

And we think that somebody is Peter Williams.

So what about Beecroft, I mean why can't you ask him?

Because I'm asking you.

Now we've got a file here from the Central Bureau in Sydney

and it appears from the computer print out

that you had some dealings with the police in Goulburn.

Oh, come on.

That was...

that was 26 years ago.

I used a car for a joyride, I was 15.

I tried to run away from home.

I was a kid for heavens sake.

I was having a few problems.

What, I'm sorry, what it's a crime to be 15?

I mean what the hell has any of this got to do with me being here?

Well what it's go to do with Mr Fleming

is that you just told us you've never used an alias.

Oh you're joking.

Look, I don't even remember, I mean...

It's a common enough name,

there must be thousands of Peter Williams' around.

Yes, but only half a dozen ever used it as an alias

and only one of them matches the handwriting

on these documents.

You actually think you know what you're doing, don't you man?

You actually believe this.

I mean, have you ever even talked to Andrew Beecroft?

Have you ever even bothered?

I'd love to.

But I'm afraid it seems that Mr Beecroft's missing.

Oh he's missing.

Just like that you're telling me he's missing,

just like that?

I wanna see a solicitor.

Certainly, no problem.

Interview interrupted for Mr Fleming

to contact a legal representative.

Do you agree the time is now 8:59 am?

Yes, thank you.

See to it will you Senior Constable?

Now what were you running away from?

What?

You said you were trying to run away from home.

I have no idea, I was 15.

You know I tried to run away when I was 15.

I brought this little pup home from school one day.

Was a cute little thing.

Me old man, he made me drown it.

I remember it as clear as day.

Funny, isn't it, how the bad things that happen to you

at that age, they seem to stay with you all your life.

I wanna see a solicitor.

There's a bloody phone book

and there's a bloody phone.

It's under L, for Lawyer.

His first lie.

Your old man that big a prick?

Don't be bloody stupid mate.

My old man would've sat there and cried if anyone had drowned a pup.

It's him.

It's bloody well him.

We'll see.

26 years ago.

Give Tommy Alvin a ring in Goulburn, he goes back that far.

I'll bet if he ain't told him.

Yes, that's right.

I think we're going to need a lot more time with him.

Pity the bloke Fleming sold the car to died

or we'd have him by the balls.

Well, you've still got his statement.

Yeah, but that's not gonna do us much good, is it?

In court, without the man himself.

Yeah, well...

His description doesn't quite look like Fleming to me.

Well they asked me about a stolen car

and then they said that the owner was missing

and now they keep on about handwriting.

No, I don't know what's happening, I can't handle it.

We got enough to charge him with theft of a motor vehicle.

Decision is, can we take it any further?

How sure are you about this?

I mean we've barked up the wrong tree before.

Oh jeez, what do you mean we?

It wasn't my stuff up.

No, I won't.

Okay.

There'll be someone here soon.

Well, you can wait for them in your birdcage.

How's his demeanour?

He wants to see a solicitor

so we're gonna have to wait for that.

You can't shut him up so he's tying himself to a story.

Well don't let him go cold.

All finished?

Christ, it's like a fucking railway station around here.

I thought I told you to piss off.

Oh come off it.

You know I can be of help to you here.

I have my sources, I can be useful.

In more ways than one.

Better get rid of this arsehole, will ya?

Make yourself scarce.

So had a cup of tea with supergrass did ya?

Don't be a silly bastard, I wouldn't put him in that category.

Oh he might tell me who he was rooting

but not who you got in the interview room.

Now I need to get a bit more on him

before I can get him over that line yet.

You arsehole.

Where do you base your training on interview techniques?

Well funny you should mention that.

Because I was told that some of the young Ds

think their Sergeants need a refresher course

on interviewing, to bring them up to scratch.

Really?

Really.

You do know which side your bread's buttered don't ya?

See ya later.

Let's stretch our legs a bit.

Where are we going?

Who the fuck do you think you are?

You've been in the job five fucking minutes,

you think you know everything?

You say another word about me or this investigation behind my back

and I'll have you transferred out of here for good. You understand?

-What? -You understand?

Yeah okay, okay.

What's the problem?

Loyalty is what I expect mate

and don't you ever forget it.

You what?

Don't you ever gamble my future

cause you think you know more or you can get away with something.

I've seen more shit than you can possibly imagine, alright?

Yeah alright.

What's this all about huh?

Talk to me. Talk to me Steele.

Mate there are too many people around here with their own agendas.

Don't you make the same mistake.

Refresher course my arse.

Well, it's no good getting excited about handwriting.

It's highly disputable in a court room.

It's not even a science.

It's just one experts opinion against another's and they know it.

Yeah but why are they doing this to me?

Well what's more important is can you verify where you were

and what you were doing at the time?

Well yes, I took the train to Ballarat,

I told them where I stayed and I can check it all.

That puts you in the vicinity at the time

so I advise you to make absolutely no comment Mr Fleming.

I know how these bastards operate.

But I never saw the car, let alone this missing person?

Oh they're going nowhere with that.

There's dozens of reasons why people go missing.

Usually domestic or financial.

Is that all? Isn't there anything else you can do?

Learn to say the words "no comment."

Right.

And how long can they hold me?

Unfortunately it's what they call reasonable time.

For a stolen car, say five or six hours.

It's up to them.

I don't think I can handle it.

Can you stay with me?

Uh well, if I stay, which of course I can,

they'll subpoena me and I'll have to be a witness for them.

Now I'm on your side not theirs.

So isn't there anything you can do to get me out?

It's just a waiting game Mr Fleming.

You let them do all the work.

They either have to present all their evidence for you to refute,

or they charge you.

So long as you offer no comment,

they're not necessarily going to get any more

than they already have.

Knowing these people, they've probably got stuff all.

I haven't done anything.

No, you wouldn't be the first person.

And under no circumstances agree to an ID parade.

Time.

You're in deep shit you fucking wanker

and you're gonna take the fucking consequences.

Now wake up to yourself.

Now you've seen your solicitor

and she's told you to say nothing.

How do you know that?

Ah, that's what they all say.

But she'll be going out to lunch soon

and you're still here.

Interview between Detective Sergeant John Steele

and Edward Rodney Fleming,

recommenced at 9:48am.

Detective Senior Constable Wayne Prior also present.

You must understand, Mr Fleming, that what we deal with are facts

and the facts are that a car's been stolen.

Now I'll give you the opportunity to respond

but if you can't negate these facts

then it leaves us really with only one course of action to take.

Your handwriting has been identified

on the transfer document, do you understand?

No comment.

The transfer document is in relation to

vehicle registration number KCR 109.

Do you know this vehicle?

No I don't.

You have been identified

in the company of the registered owner of that vehicle

who is a missing person.

Identified?

By who?

What now?

I'm supposed to have been with someone

I've never even heard of?

All I'm doing Mr Fleming is advising you of the evidence we're in possession of

and giving you the opportunity to respond.

You get better all the time.

What evidence?

I've just explained to you the relevant facts.

You were in the location that the car was stolen from.

Let me make it clearer for you.

Mr Beecroft left the city in his car on the 21st January.

He drove to Ballarat, then onto Horsham.

You must understand Mr Fleming that this is all amount of record.

This has all been verified.

Now, there's a roadhouse outside Ballarat.

The owner of the establishment was there

and he said that there was somebody with Mr Beecroft

and that somebody's description fits you.

Well, you must be joking.

I mean, if there is someone at all

then he's made a mistake.

I tell you he's wrong.

Well I don't think he is Mr Fleming.

How many road houses are round the place?

How many attendants?

And what, you just happen to find someone who describes me?

Well, what's that?

Average height, average build?

Mr Average?

If you feel that strongly about it,

I'd be more than happy to organise an identification parade.

If you're not picked, end of story.

Well, I can see where you're heading but there's no point in having a solicitor

and then going against her advice.

It's up to you.

You really are a corrupt little man aren't you?

We are giving you the opportunity to respond to the facts.

The fellow in the road house, he'd probably forget his own name

and what favours did you give him?

We don't buy witnesses, Mr Fleming.

Your description was given to us by this witness

and your handwriting identifies you as the person handling the stolen car.

See, I've read about unsolved crimes.

You have to clear them from your books so you charge someone.

That's what this is all about, isn't it?

Is it?

Yeah, newspapers are full of it.

You know, unsolved crimes?

Murders and what have you?

Maybe Mr Fleming, but murder, that's a bit much.

I'm a man with no job or prospects, you know,

lives alone, goes up to the country every now and then,

it's perfect for you.

Beecroft and his car go missing,

you're right Sergeant, you know, it doesn't look good.

Is there anyone else you're looking for?

My God you know,

I went for a joy ride as a kid and now I'm a car thief,

God knows what else.

As I said, a letter signed Peter Williams,

plus the transfer of ownership from Mr Beecroft to a Peter Williams

are both in your handwriting.

Must've been uncomfortable.

All that driving round

in the heat, in the summer, asking questions.

So now you have nothing.

You're looking to save your own skins.

It won't work.

I haven't been to Horsham for years.

As I told you, I haven't been out of town except for Ballarat.

And you show me where I've ever had enough money

to get to Horsham.

We have witnesses who saw you, Mr Fleming.

Witnesses who saw someone like me.

So you say.

The time is now 9:57am.

I'm interrupting this interview

for the purpose of making further inquiries.

Perhaps one witness could be discredited you fuck wit,

but not three.

Beecroft is missing, I have heard his name before.

It's been in the papers.

You think he's dead, don't you?

You think that I had something to do with it.

No.

No one's accusing you of that.

As far as I'm concerned,

you're just helping us with our inquiries into a stolen car.

Well it would be logical to think

that I knew something of his whereabouts, wouldn't it?

Why, do you?

No. No, look how many times do I have to tell you?

Do I have to swear on the Bible or something?

The bigger the oath, the bigger the lie.

Now, like the man said,

it's about a fucking stolen, fucking car

you fuckin' fuck wit.

Is he allowed to talk to me like that?

I'll talk to you how I want.

Now, you're fucked for the car and we're gonna charge you for it.

So you may as well tell us about it

and we won't oppose bail.

As I said, we're only interested in the stolen car.

I don't believe you.

And who else is missing?

What, four or five?

All those people, papers have been going berserk over

that's where you're headed.

You're so bloody desperate you've picked on me,

some nobody who lives on his own.

I'm not stupid Sergeant and you know it

so don't patronize me.

What I wanna know is, who the hell do you people think you are?

You either charge me or you let me outta here.

Well look, it's not as simple as that.

If you believe this nonsense then you prove it.

You know there's only one real way to do that don't you?

Well, what's that?

Find his body.

Exactly how long have you had him?

Five hours.

You were brought in to get results John.

It's not going our way and now we've got his solicitor on our back.

Nah about his solicitor.

It's 60-40 our way, there's no admission as yet.

Not strong enough.

We run with that and you're wrong,

it'll cost the department thousands.

If you can't do better than this we'll have to let him go.

No way.

Not while he's still talking.

Half an hour, that's it.

Any longer we're heading into deep water.

He's made mention of a body.

Body? Who's body?

Why didn't you say this straight up?

He said we'll never find Beecroft's body.

We'd like to run with it a bit longer.

You serious?

That's what he said.

He said this on tape?

Nah nah, bit too clever for that,

the tapes were off.

He give you any idea where the body might be?

No.

Give you anything else?

Yes.

The five other missing people in similar circumstances

and he brought that one up himself.

Oh.

Where is he now?

He's upstairs.

He's agreed to be fingerprinted.

Why? We've already got them on file.

Any IDs from prints, crime scene section?

No, not yet.

We need a new set.

Don't lie to me, John.

You're kicking into the wind.

You would've have let him out of that interview room

for two seconds if he was running like that.

I'm the one in there, don't tell me how to run it.

We need to back off a bit, he was starting to take control.

You've got nothing to go on have ya?

You can't afford anymore complaints.

It'll be your arse hanging out in the breeze.

You needn't look around for me this time.

This time?

With respect sir, you just told me I was brought in here to get results.

Two hours, that's it. Get outta here.

Have you checked the ground?

Not yet, I'm still going through the papers!

Come on. Then flick it Max or someone.

Now, why are they all harmless middle aged people?

What the bloody hell happened here Bangarbin?

What's he actin' out here?

Any markings, drawings?

In these pots Sergeant.

They're just crosswords, nothing of value.

Alright, we're running out of time.

If we don't come up with something in the next two hours

in forensics or newspapers, we're gonna have to let him go.

Two hours?

And no more bloody threats.

I haven't threatened the prick yet.

Don't talk shit, we're treating it with kid gloves.

Now it's goin' alright.

Fuckin' bullshit, he hasn't admitted a damn thing.

Hasn't he?

Think about it.

What sort of person says, find his body?

Hey? Would an innocent person in a place like this

even think in those terms?

Induction and deduction.

They still teach you that don't they?

And the left hand?

Yes, just a couple more, Mr Fleming.

That's it, thank you.

What about this one?

What do you call forty lawyers at the bottom of Port Phillip Bay?

A good start.

He's a live one.

All done?

Look, I'm tryin' to help, okay?

I just wish you'd listen to me.

Yes, I know Mr Fleming, it is appreciated.

Let's go back down stairs.

Oh, not again.

Is that really necessary?

Is there anything we can get for you, Mr Fleming?

Anything you need?

Yep, to get out of here.

And for the umpteenth time some food?

Looks like a lot of success doesn't it?

Oh yeah, a few keepsakes,

highlights and various investigations, you know?

Trophies huh?

They heroes?

What, are interested in what we do?

Yeah, certainly.

It's a very courageous job to go up against

people who are desperate.

And what makes you think they're all desperate?

Ah I dunno, just what you read, you know?

Ah, your newspapers.

Yeah, I suppose that's part of it.

What do you mean?

I dunno, just seems like an exciting job.

Not all the fucking time.

Now hang on, hang on.

Mr Fleming is trying to help us now.

What do you mean, Mr Fleming?

You remember that bloke Sandhurst, year before last?

He killed all those people in Sydney?

Yeah, I remember reading about that case.

Bloody amazing.

Yeah nobody knows why he did it.

What you study these stories do you?

Is it a serious interest?

Sometimes when there's not much to do

I collect all the newspaper stories

and see what I can fathom from it all.

- Why is that mate? - Oh, it's an interest.

It's always built into something bigger than it is.

I'm not quite with you, Mr Fleming.

Yes you are, you know what I mean.

Every time someone writes about a murder,

they look for some apocalyptic reason for the killing.

Well, people have to try and make some sort of sense of it don't they?

What is that what you do? You try and make sense of it?

I bet there's dozens of murders on your computer

that have no tangible reason.

I means lets face it, some people kill other people, full stop.

You got them and me in here, what a joke.

People just go ahead and do it, you know?

Sometimes maybe for a few dollars, maybe for nothing.

They just seem to go for it you know? Pure and simple.

You really believe that crap?

No, no, no - you could be right.

Some of them will leave you wondering.

Yeah, it's not too hard to work out.

I was just talking to the expert who took your fingerprints.

Yeah, I bet they matched the ones on your file.

Yes, of course.

So what does that mean?

It means we will have to charge you with theft of the motor car.

A car? Who cares about a car?

I thought we were talking about more important things?

What about kidnapping and murder?

No, no, no, no.

Nah, I'm yet to be convinced, Mr Fleming.

Convinced?

Then what am I doing here?

Well, I like to keep an open mind.

You got that from your father, did you?

We're all what our parents make us, Mr Fleming.

Are you ready to talk about Goulburn yet?

Must've been good if you don't wanna talk about it?

I'm starving.

I'm starving.

Let's eat eh?

I'll draw you a diagram.

A diagram of what?

Where I put them.

What do you mean by them?

No, no, I want to eat please.

Alright, we'll send out.

Just out of interest sake, how many were there?

No.

This is very civilized.

This is very civilized.

Where'd you send out for this?

Just upstairs at the canteen.

Are you not joining us?

No, I'm not hungry, thanks.

Ah, you don't know what you're missing.

Come on, let's get on with it. I can eat while I talk.

Interview between Detective Sergeant John Steele

and Edward Rodney Fleming, recommenced.

Detective Senior Constable Wayne Prior also present.

Mr Fleming, I intend to ask you some questions

in relation to a missing person.

Do you agree that the time is now 11:18am?

Mr Fleming has nodded in agreement, is that correct Mr Fleming?

Yes.

For you to draw the diagram.

The whole thing right, what I was on about before.

What's that, the newspapers?

Yeah, ridiculous stories.

Every time something serious happens,

you think there has to be some elaborate motive.

What do you really know about people's murders?

Where's it gonna lead you?

Well hopefully, the person we're looking for.

That's rubbish.

Take Beecroft, what motive was there?

You was lucky,

you got in your big car and you drove round the place.

What were you doing?

Emu duty.

You go from one scrap to another.

And now I know you found me so,

what's the big reason?

What was my motive? You tell me.

Motive for what, you tell me?

You're still on emu duty, you can't see it.

There's no reason for it.

Motive, you want a motive? Alright.

I was a bit short of cash, Beecroft came along,

it was his time.

What do you mean by his time?

Well to grin at the lid.

What lid?

The coffin lid.

Pass the mayonnaise please?

So, how did you meet Beecroft, Mr Fleming?

Well once I got to Ballarat, I checked into the Salvos

and then quite late in the day I went walking.

Before you know I'm looking for a lift

outside the city on the western highway

without a cent to my name.

I wanted to get up to Storm,

thought I might get a job up there.

And this bloke gave me a lift.

And had you ever met him before?

Nope never.

He was heading for Horsham so said he'd be glad to take me.

Make a wish.

We stopped for petrol up around Ararat.

I saw he had some money in his wallet

so I guess that's where I got the idea.

Idea for what?

On killing him.

Now, see this should give you a good idea of what I was talking about.

You don't need a big reason to kill somebody.

Beecroft had $38.

Suppose you told that to somebody killing a bloke for $38.

Wouldn't have a lot of appeal, would it?

You'd be told that you should do it for a lot of money or revenge,

'cause you've always gotta have a good motive.

It's rubbish.

You just do it 'cause you can.

Are you saying you killed Beecroft?

I guess so.

There's a little gulley up there just outside of Storm.

We picked up a bottle of scotch and we drank some on the way.

So how did you kill Beecroft, Mr Fleming?

It's pretty weird, that one.

Just outside of Storm,

by now it was getting dark.

And I spotted this little gulley.

So I got him to pull in.

Told him I wanted to relieve myself cause, you know,

we'd had a bit too much to drink.

By now it was beginning to rain.

There was this sort of lean-to

next to these trees at the end,

middle of nowhere.

Are you prepared to direct us to the location?

Yeah, yeah, sure.

We lit this small fire.

We sat and talked and finished the bottle and fell asleep.

What, the both of ya?

Yeah, now that's the weird bit.

Well, I guess I killed Beecroft alright...

..but I didn't mean to.

What do you mean you didn't mean to?

You just told us that you had the idea when you saw him open up his wallet?

Yeah I had the idea alright, but that's all it was.

We both went to sleep.

Must've been around 11,

not really sure 'cause of all the booze and everything.

I started having these weird dreams, nightmares.

And this part sounds like a story

but I swear to God it's the truth.

I had these nightmares...

..and I woke up and they were still all there.

Who was still all there?

All these people all around me, people everywhere.

I must've been still asleep.

And what did you do then?

Well, I picked up this bit of iron by the fire

and I started swinging.

It's quite strange you know 'cause I knew every one of those faces.

What were they? Previous victims of yours, were they?

Yeah, people I'd met yeah.

There were only a few of them.

Seemed like there were hundreds all around in the air.

And I felt hot and cold, sweating.

Saw Beecroft and I swung hard and I kept swinging.

And it didn't even make a sound.

He had his eyes closed and I caved in his head.

When I woke up, he was on the floor

and all the people had disappeared.

Never came back.

And what'd you do then?

Well, pulled Beecroft outside and I buried him.

Then I burnt his clothes

and took his wallet and car and I took off.

Can you draw us that diagram of where you buried him?

Yeah.

Here's the western highway.

Ararat. Storm, Horsham's up here.

It's about there.

I was really starving thanks.

And what about the others, Mr Fleming?

Others, look I don't recall them too clearly.

What I mentioned before with all those missing people.

There's a couple in the western district

and the rest along the New South Wales border.

It just happens that way, there's no particular reason.

Can you remember any of them?

No.

I can't recall exactly.

But there was this one bloke though,

he stands out quite a bit,

can't really remember his name.

What a whimp.

Oh yeah, why's that?

Well he picked me up in his car, near Portsy

and we got a bit of takeaway food

and something to drink.

And later on I got him to pull over

and I beat the shit out of him with a piece of wood

and he was pathetic.

He was complaining, winging, crying.

And why'd you beat the shit out of him? What happened?

Nothing.

I buried him in the sand.

See he was one of the people I saw.

Just goes to show you how the mind works, doesn't it?

I don't know, Mr Fleming, how does your mind work?

I've heard a lot of people talk about killing.

I've always wondered what it must feel like.

No.

There's nothing to it.

To have that sort of power over another person.

Not really, it's remarkably easy.

So where exactly did you bury him?

I'd have to show you that one,

it was in the dunes.

Is there any other people you'd like to tell us about, Mr Fleming?

Uh no, not really.

Like I told you, five or six.

All about the same really.

When did the first one occur?

A couple of years ago.

And the first was the same as the last.

You know, I belt whoever with something and that'd be it.

It's a very insignificant thing.

You know what, it didn't change me.

It didn't change me at all.

That's why I say it's all built up.

Have you ever been ill Mr Fleming?

Have you ever seen a doctor

or been in a hospital or anything?

No, not really, why?

A psychiatrist?

No, I'm not mad.

So you knew what you were doing then?

Yes, course.

Did it ever bother you, ever?

No, only that dream with Beecroft.

And I think that was 'cause of all the booze.

That was a great meal, thanks a lot.

Fine.

I intend to interrupt this interview

for the purpose of making further inquiries.

When we do recommence,

it'll be in relation to the Beecroft death in detail

which will be recorded on video.

Sure.

S'pose I always knew you'd find me I guess.

I always knew.

Thank you.

-Aren't you having one? -No, I don't smoke.

You've waited a long time to share that with someone

haven't you, Mr Fleming?

You winning?

Yeah, some game.

How good is this, John?

I mean he suddenly puts his hand up.

Sure he's not a chronic confessor?

No, not this one.

Cosying up to a mind like Fleming's makes you feel sick in the guts.

Well, if it's half as good as it sounds

I'll personally write you out for a commissioners commendation.

No thanks, there's a long way to go yet.

Gonna be tied up with this for weeks.

Interviews, re-enactments, getting the brief together.

While Prior's rounding up the shrink, any other assistance you need?

Yeah, we're going to need the video camera for the interview room.

Mobile and photographics for his apartment

and we're gonna need another search warrant.

I tell ya, this bloke's gonna run on insanity.

Good old McNorton sorts.

Yep.

He was suffering disease of the mind to such an extent,

he didn't know what he was doing was wrong.

That's up to him to prove.

Yeah, it's not going to be fucking hard, is it?

Barry Walls had a chat to me.

I said you might have something for the morning edition.

Oh Jesus, why'd you do that?

I got me tied up here till midnight as it is.

Well I understand that

but I don't wanna finish up with egg on my face.

Geez, you can't help yourself can ya?

You leaked the story to him

before I even know I had the right man didn't ya?

No, I simply told him that you were looking

at the missing persons that he and others were writing about.

What you wanna tell him is up to you.

Everybody wants to be famous.

You're in deep shit you fuckin' wanker

and you're gonna take the fuckin' consequences.

Wake up to yourself.

Now like the man said, it's about a fuckin' stolen fuckin' car

you fuckin' fuck wit.

Is he allowed to talk to me like that?

I'll talk to you how I want.

Now you're fucked with the car, we're gonna charge you for it.

So you may as well tell us about it and we won't oppose bail.

Now that's a threat too.

Once more, it's inducement and intimidation.

How could they be so stupid?

Plus, it's the same terminology as the other complaints.

Sir, it's Prior not Steele.

Steele is teaching bad habits to his subordinates.

I reckon your count in the video proves that.

Defence council's gonna eat them with this.

Are you seriously considering

putting this man back on the street?

That's exactly where he's gonna end up

without a conviction and we're not gonna get one with this.

In which case, we've lost him forever

or until he kills again.

I realize that sir, but they've got him

and he's a real psycho.

In who's judgement?

And what if the court decides he's not?

Which they might.

I mean, look at him, for Christ sake.

He'd confess to killing his own mother for five minutes of attention.

I hope you're right.

Look at this.

As far as I'm concerned you're just helping us

with our inquiries into a stolen vehicle.

Then it would be logical to think

that I knew something of his whereabouts, wouldn't it?

Why, do ya?

No.

No how many-

They had only read him his rights on the stolen car.

They've assured him he's not accused of anything else

and now Steele starts to question him about a missing person.

Oh, this isn't even gonna get into a court.

The DPP will throw it out and if they don't, the judge will.

Sir, it's only one question in response to what he's volunteered.

I know, it doesn't matter.

The law requires them to play fair.

Now they've stood behind the suspect,

they've stood over him in a threatening manner

and they've refused him food what three, four times?

We've got nothing.

Could we look at it again, sir?

We can't put this man back on the street.

Well you tell that to Steele because that's exactly what he's just done.

Do you know how many times the ethics committee have had to look at him?

Because he gets results?

Mr Fleming. I intend to ask you further questions

in relation to the disappearance of Mr Andrew Beecroft

on or about the 21st of January this year.

I must warn you that you are not advised to say or do anything,

but anything you say or do may be given in evidence.

Do you understand that?

Yes.

You have the right to communicate with

or attempt to communicate with a friend or relative

to advise that person of your whereabouts.

And you may communicate with

or attempt to communicate with a legal practitioner.

Do you wish to contact any of these persons?

No, no.

Do you agree that you've already made certain admissions to me

in regard to the disappearance of Mr Andrew Beecroft?

Yes, well I told you what I'd done.

Can you again tell me what those admissions are?

Yes, well,

course went to the local shop to Ballarat

where I stayed with the Salvos.

Yes, but more specifically in relation to Mr Beecroft.

Oh, yes.

What's the question?

You said earlier that on the 21st of January

you hitched a lift in an EH Holden station wagon

registration number KCR 109,

driven by Mr Andrew Beecroft.

Well as I've said I don't recall the make

or colour of the car but yes I did get a lift

outside Ballarat at that time, yeah.

And you further stated that you killed Andrew Beecroft...

..with a blow to the head with an iron bar.

Gentlemen?

Sir this is Mr Edward Fleming.

Mr Fleming, I'd like you to meet Detective Inspector Jackson.

Mr Fleming, how are you?

I'm still alive but I'd rather be at home.

You being treated okay?

They got you refreshments, a meal?

This is still part of the formal interview, isn't it?

Yes, the tape's still running.

I'm just ensuring that you're okay and that you're being treated properly.

Well no, I'm not okay.

What's the problem?

I'd like to talk to you alone if that's alright?

If you have a problem, Mr Fleming, I'd like you to state it now.

Well, I wish you'd come in hours ago.

They broke into my house at five o'clock this morning,

bashed me and brought me here.

Now I've been trying to help where I can but they just won't listen.

What do you mean?

All this business about a stolen car.

As I've already told these gentlemen, I know nothing about a stolen car

or this mysterious Mr Beecroft who appears to be missing.

You've just confessed to six murders

and described in detail how you met Beecroft,

murdered him and disposed of his body.

What do you say to that, Mr Fleming. Is that correct?

Sergeant you know as well as I do

that I only told you what you wanted to hear.

You said you wanted to be convinced.

What do you mean?

Detective Inspector, these policemen have held me here all day.

I concocted a story from what they told me.

That Beecroft and his car went missing around Storm.

I even told them that I'd draw a map just so I could get a meal

because the only way that I could get a meal and be allowed to eat it

was to tell them what they wanted to hear.

And look at them, they lapped it up, couldn't get enough of it.

Are you telling me that the admissions that you made

to Sergeant Steele in relation to the theft of a motor vehicle

and the murder of Mr Beecroft and others

was a story you made up to get a meal?

Inspector Jackson.

I did go to Ballarat.

I do go to the local shop.

I do stay with the Salvos.

I do live on my own.

But I've not stolen any car

let alone killed anybody.

Can you accept that please?

Because these people won't.

I hear what you're saying, Mr Fleming.

But if you lied before,

how do I know you're not lying now?

I've been scared out of my mind sitting in here and they know it.

They wouldn't believe that I had nothing to do with the car.

That man threatened me and that man did nothing to help me.

I told them what they wanted to hear.

Now I've decided that I'm not gonna say anything else.

So you either charge me or you let me out of here right now.

Sergeant Steele, I want you to conclude this interview.

Come see my in my office.

I'm concluding this interview.

Is there anything else you wish to say?

I've done nothing wrong.

And I have a great deal to say about it but not here and not to you.

You fuckin' dog.

We both know what you've done.

And you've got no hope of going back on what you said.

You're gone.

You just wanted me to share it so badly, didn't you?

It's a good story, while it lasted.

I'm no killer, you stupid bastard.

Fuck.

Fuck! Fuck Fuck! Lying bloody arsehole!

Fuckin' bastard lying.

Fucking bastard!

What?

Turn around.

I've just got one word for ya.

Yeah what?

Toe cutters.

Are they on me now?

Yep.

What've you done?

Nothin' he was a smart arse and he somersaulted us.

What have you got?

We can tie him to the car,

we got enough to charge him with theft of the car.

We can put him in the vicinity where the person went missing.

We've got a witness who can identify him.

We've got expert evidence

of it being his handwriting on the transfer document

and Mrs Beecroft's letter.

We've got three fingerprints on the transfer document

and we've also got his own admission.

Sir, if you heard the tapes you would believe him.

If we had the body we could charge him with murder right now.

You heard him make an official complaint over threats in that interview room.

If those complaints are proven, then any admission that he did make

would be inadmissible and I'll have your fucking balls mate.

Admissions? You want admissions?

They're as fucking long as your arm.

He was just about to get back into it until you barged in.

That's our word against his, it's as simple as that.

I am going to get a statement of formal complaint from Mr Fleming.

You can put together a brief of evidence

relating to the theft of a motor car.

If I think you've got enough evidence,

he can be summoned for that offence at a later date.

Yes sir, but what about the murders?

What other avenues have you got going?

Storm police and CIB are searching for the location

that Fleming drew,

as well as any other location that resembles

the description that he gave.

That's it?

Well if he somersaulted you that's likely to be bullshit too.

Sir, this man is a serial killer.

Mate, I am on your side,

but any further decisions are gonna be made upstairs

and unfortunately I assure you as things are,

they are gonna be harder to convince than me.

Well I wanna come with ya.

That won't be necessary.

We can't let him walk.

Just goes to show you how the mind works doesn't it?

I don't know, Mr Fleming, how does the mind work?

I've listened to a lot of people talk about killing

and I've often wondered what it must feel like.

Nothin', there's nothin' to it.

Well there must be.

You know,

to have that power over another person?

Look at him.

He gets off on it.

Sir, we don't have to show them our tapes.

Most of these conversations happened when their audio tapes were off.

Their tapes are clean, it's only ours that have a record of this.

It's the ethics committee's decision not ours

and I can't see them withholding the tapes

from the DPP, the ombudsman or his defence council.

What did you mean by blue print?

His favourite porno mag or movie, that sort of thing.

Why pornography?

Well if it's not that, it's something equally as tasteful.

Trouble with crooks is they've got no imagination.

There're only three ways you learn to do the kind of shit that we have to clean up.

Either someone done it to you,

you read about it or you seen it on some video.

Now, this story on Maria Garibaldi

was published on the 7th.

We fed it to the media on the 6th

and she was reported missing on the 3rd.

On the 3rd.

That bastard, bloody country editions.

Where are those fucking dates?

You idiot.

Have you matched the days people went missing with the actual paper?

Yes, but I didn't know I was looking for country editions.

This was your responsibility to brief him properly.

Alright everybody, heads up. Norton, Vickley, Johnson come over here.

Lend a hand please.

Right here's a list of the dates all our people went missing.

Check the dates with the newspaper.

If it's not a country edition, check the dates on the papers

up to four days previous.

Now Roger Lee was reported missing on the 22nd of June.

Here sir, it's the city edition.

Here's the first country edition.

I bet we can match a country edition to every disappearance.

Bloody beautiful.

At least Jackson can't turn him loose now.

Should be enough to save his ass, get him a bit of glory.

Next time, start with the bit that matters yeah?

Now I'm gonna beef this up a bit so I'm gonna need your support alright?

You can count on me.

Sir, we've got him.

It's circumstantial but it's good circumstantial.

It's too fucking late.

He's bloody gone.

We can put him in the bush for everyday our people went missing.

Shut up.

It's what we needed sir.

Shut up

Would you mind waiting in my office?

Toe cutters.

They've had you under video surveillance

since you walked into that room this morning.

You're fucking joking, why?

From what they say, your whole interview is inadmissible.

I'd have thought you'd known better than that

especially in a case like this.

We haven't touched a hair on his head.

Nobody has laid a finger on him

and if they've been videoing, they'll know it.

They say you used threats, intimidation and inducements.

We didn't touch the bastard.

Did you know they were taping us?

No, but I don't like it any better than you do.

So where do you stand and what's happening here?

Fleming walks.

With the shadowers in tow.

You are to brief Sergeant Quinlan's crew.

She will be taking over the Fleming investigation.

You arsehole. You've rigged us upstairs, haven't ya?

I'm brought in here to get results.

To make you look good in an investigation that's going nowhere.

All you do is tie me hands.

You lie, you cheat, you leak information,

you're a fucking disgrace.

You're supposed to be one of us.

You make me sick.

You want your name in the newspapers?

How about, "police release serial killer,"

with your name all over it?

I am aware that you have counselled Prior

about his behaviour in the interview room

and I will stand up for you.

But don't threaten me.

Oh fuck you.

I'm not gonna cock this holier-than-thou shit from you.

I've gone from being the lord mayor to the shit carter

in about two hours.

Watch out Fleming doesn't come and cut your throat.

How much shit are we in?

I have to advise you we've been videotaping you all day

under instructions from the ethics committee.

From my observations you have a disregard of the law

and a total disregard of the judges rules.

I'm instructing you that I will be formally interviewing both of you

in relation to these matters.

Do you intend interviewing us about the criminal

or departmental matters?

Possibly both.

I don't believe this.

Do you have any idea of what you're doing?

I thought I could ask you the same question.

You're in enough trouble without adding insubordination to the list.

If you'd been watching all day you'd know he's knocked at least five or six.

Those matters will be dealt with by other police. It's not our concern.

Well it should be.

Because it means he'll do it again as sure as you're sitting there.

What we've done sir,

is to gather enough evidence

to take one of the most dangerous men I've ever interviewed off the street.

It's been a very difficult investigation.

And with someone as plausible and as devious as this man,

the interviewing is crucial.

As far as I'm concerned,

we've conducted it within the specifications of the law.

And as far as I'm concerned, we don't break the law to enforce it.

Oh for Christ's sake, if you can't see what's wrong

with putting this man back on the street,

you're fucked in the head and I hope it comes and visits ya.

Shouldn't take you long to brief the other team.

I'll be waiting.

I was genuinely frightened.

They weren't in the least bit interested

in what I had to say.

At what point did you become frightened?

From the moment they broke down my door and hit me.

I see.

They humiliated me by making me strip.

No matter how many times I asked for food.

That's the sort of thing you read about

in the newspapers all the time

but they're always supposed to be crooks

so just don't think about it.

Are you saying that there's no truth to the admissions

regarding Mr Beecroft and others?

I didn't say anything that they didn't lead me to.

You gave a lot of specific details, Mr Fleming, and you volunteered them.

Look I made it up.

I'm sorry, I know it was stupid,

I just got so bloody angry.

He's done these six for sure.

Where are ya?

Well I've got something for ya and it's very bloody tropical.

No - now - right now.

-What's he like, any history? -Nothing.

Thinks he's smarter and more clever than anyone else.

Any bodies?

No he gets rid of them in isolated areas.

So isolated we can't find them.

ESD are in there.

I'm being fucked, this is the bloke they're letting go.

Is this the interview tape?

Yep.

Christ.

Are you sure you wanna go through with this?

Mate, people don't go from pinching cars at 15 years of age

to killing half a dozen people 26 years later

without a whole lot of other shit in between.

Well, how much time have you spent with him?

Enough to know he's a killer.

They'll have your badge and gun mate.

Mate they think they've already got 'em.

And I haven't started with those blokes yet.

Alice Morewood, family from Cavendish.

Couple of kids still at school, her old man's a bit of a redneck.

She was last seen shopping in Horsham on June the 12th last year.

She was driving a Toyota Corona.

Now, there's been a lot of rumours around town

that she nicked off another bloke, that's bullshit.

Is he in the frame for anything else?

Most revealing thing we've got

is his record of interview.

You listen to that and it'll curl your hair.

There goes your man.

Oh, he likes you.

Jackson will put him through deprocessing.

After that, the shadowers are sitting off outside.

They'll take him away.

-How many? -Two crews of four around the clock.

Any connection between the people he's targeted?

No, nothing you can put your finger on.

Just that he's got a taste for ordinary decent people.

I realize it's been eight hours Mr Fleming,

we just need a few more details.

Am I being charged?

Not at his point in time.

Can I get my belongings back please?

Sergeant Steele,

you are not being cautioned at this stage,

however, the conversation is being tape recorded.

If you refuse or decline to answer our questions

you will be charged with disobeying a lawful instruction.

Apart from Mr Fleming's,

we have signed complaints from other people as well.

Yeah, well, I'd get people to sign things

I'd written up too.

Yes, we are aware of that.

I said I could, not I did.

Demonstrates a pattern to the way you operate Mr Steele.

You permitted Prior to abuse, assault, intimidate,

make false promises to and threaten Mr Fleming.

Well, is that a question?

If it is which part do you want me to answer first?

Furthermore it could be said that you conspired with Prior

to pervert the course of justice and set up an innocent man.

No comment.

Sergeant, I'm talking about your conduct

as the senior officer in the interview room

and the threats, both physical and verbal

that the two of you made.

Which part of the statement are you referring to now?

I've got it all on video tape, Mr Steele.

Well maybe if you charge me, I'll have the same civil rights as a crook.

Look.

You can stop this.

Fleming doesn't have to be released just yet.

Oh yes, he does.

Because you were careless, slip shot.

Fleming walks because you're not good enough.

Without me you would've have even got him

into this room, he knows who you are.

He spent his whole life using people like you.

Transcript of Mr Fleming's complaint will be available shortly.

I'm interrupting this interview until it is available.

-Take it up, will you, Sergeant? -Yes sir.

This is personal with you, isn't it, George?

I mean every time it's you.

Typical cowboy response.

You don't seem to realize it's your own conduct

that brings down this avalanche of complaints.

This is the fourth time you've interviewed me in the last three years.

And you've never succeeded in even sticking a disciplinary charge on me.

Have you ever thought that maybe the way you see things might be wrong?

Oh, you're a thug.

You get more complaints than Ned Kelly.

You're gonna end up back on the street. No pension, no superannuation.

Dishonorable discharge.

And it'll happen because I'll make sure it does.

I know what's been going on in the interview room,

I know what's going on in your head.

When was the last time you worked on the streets?

Do you have any idea what it's like out there?

You fight fire with fire.

I charge them, they complain about me.

And that's the problem Mr Steele, too many complaints.

You're a thug.

You get more complaints than Ned Kelly.

You're gonna end up back on the street. No pension, no super annuation.

Dishonorable discharge.

And it'll happen because I'll make sure it does.

Abuse, threat and assault.

I should've asked for a meal.

I'm sure not all the police behave like this

and I'm willing to accept it's all been an unfortunate mistake.

But it's just so upsetting.

I mean, if this could happen to me, you know, this could happen to anybody.

I mean really it's sort of just about being reasonable, isn't it?