Original subtitles

♪ ♪

(overlapping chatter)

(rapid gunfire)

OFFICER: Go, go, go.

MAN (over phone): In Walmart right now, AK,

somebody's got shot.

MARIANA: The world is under attack from a new kind of extremism.

REPORTER (over TV): Lone wolf.

REPORTER 2 (over TV): Lone wolf.

REPORTER 3 (over TV): The lone wolf threat has increased.

MARIANA: Too often, the blame is placed on lone wolf shooters,

but nothing could b further from the truth.

(chanting)

DR. ERROLL: The white supremacist threat is

at an unprecedented level in our country,

and I'm even going back to the 1920s when

there was a resurgence of the clan.

MARIANA: This is a story unlike any I've ever pursued.

ALL: USA!

MARIANA: About a global network of white supremacists that

traffic in terror and hate.

JAMES: That's what happens when high civilizations permit

themselves to go colored.

(ringing)

MAN (over phone): Pump that (bleep) open and pull the trigger.

MARIANA: Are you telling people to go kill people right now?

Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.

MAN: Whoa, whoa, hey.

WOMAN: Turn it off, click.

MARIANA: I want to understand how this network operates.

How it recruits, how it radicalizes,

and why so little is being done to stop it.

Do you think there's a, a race war coming?

ARTHUR: I hope so.

(theme music playing)

MARIANA: August 3rd of 2019

began like any other Saturday in El Paso, Texas.

No one in the city of 700,000

had any idea that their hometown would

soon witness one of the worst mass shootings

in American history.

That was the day a 21 year old white male drove 600 miles

from his hometown in the suburbs of Dallas to

El Paso's Walmart Supercenter.

Inside his car, he carried a semi‐automatic AK‐47 assault rifle.

Sometime around 10:30 am, he pulled into a parking lot,

exited his car, and opened fire.

WOMAN (over phone): Run, mija, run!

(rapid gunfire)

MAN (over phone): In Walmart right now, AK,

somebody's got shot.

(rapid gunfire)

(panting)

ADRIA: Just running, running, running.

MARIANA: Adria Gonzalez was inside shopping with

her mother when the massacre started.

ADRIA: I actually told my mom,

"Stay here and let me see what's going on to the, in the front."

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.

ADRIA: That's when I stopped and I saw bodies,

some bodies, and, and, uh,

people bleeding, people with blood all over them.

WOMAN (over phone): Ah, no!

(overlapping chatter)

WOMAN (over phone): We need CPR!

(overlapping chatter)

ADRIA: I was yelling, "There's a shooter."

And just telling them to go get out.

(sirens blaring)

(phone line ringing)

GILBERT: I always called my son every day,

maybe five, six times a day.

And, uh, that morning I called and there was no answer.

MARIANA: Gilbert Anchondo's son, Andre was inside

the Walmart that morning,

shopping with his wife and six week old son.

GILBERT: That's one of the things that haunt me at night.

What was going through his mind?

How did he feel when he encounter, uh,

the shooter and, and he stood in front of him?

MARIANA: Oh, so, he actually came face‐to‐face with the shooter?

GILBERT: He came face‐to‐face with the shooter.

MARIANA: Andre died that day,

shielding his wife and son from the shooter's bullets.

Though his wife succumbed to her injuries,

their baby boy survived.

GILBERT: People were actually calling him a hero,

people that had told us that, uh,

"Well, I'm alive because of your son.

He pushed me to the side and he,

he was trying to distract the shooter."

You know, I did everything that a parent could

do for, for, for, his child.

So, I was the first one that, uh,

brought him into this world, and the last one that closed

his coffin and sent him on his way.

MARIANA: 23 people were murdered that day,

before the shooter surrendered to Texas law enforcement.

In custody, he admitted he was specifically targeting

anyone who looked Latino.

(sirens blaring)

ADRIA: Why us?

What did we do to him to have so much hate towards us?

Why?

MARIANA: What few realized is that the El Paso shooter

was part of a movement.

A global network of white supremacists

who operate much like a trafficking network.

Only they're not putting drugs in people's bodies or guns in their hands,

they're putting violent fantasies in their heads.

I'm on a mission to understand how it works,

what's motivating these young white men to commit

such extreme and bloody attacks,

and what can be done to stop them.

(gunshot)

CHRISTIAN: You'll never get the truth from a current extremist.

Their whole job is to lie to you and

to spin things their own way.

Which is why I say, if you want the truth,

talk to a former extremist.

MARIANA: Do you still have the jacket?

CHRISTIAN: I still have the jacket.

MARIANA: Wow.

CHRISTIAN: So, this was CASH, Chicago Area Skin Heads which

was that first American, uh,

neo‐Nazi group.

And then on the back.

MARIANA: Final Solution, oh.

CHRISTIAN: Final Solution was my band name with the 88 which

is kind of shorthand, uh,

for the 8th letter of the alphabet, HH,

which stands for Heil Hitler.

MARIANA: What was the Final Solution?

CHRISTIAN: Well, the Final Solution in

my mind was, uh, the same thing that was

in Hitler's mind, uh,

and that was the extermination of the Jews.

That was the ultimate solution.

MARIANA: From the age of 14 to 22,

Christian Picciolini helped build

America's first neo‐Nazi skinhead organization.

But today, he has devoted his life to helping people

disengage from the same extremist groups he used to belong to.

CHRISTIAN: What I see when I look at those pictures

is not a tough guy.

Uh, I see a very, uh, insecure.

MARIANA: Hmm.

CHRISTIAN: Um, low self‐esteem

and broken young man.

And I think it's important for people to understand that what

draws people to those movements,

hate movements, is not the ideology initially.

Nobody is born to hate.

It's something that we learn.

And for me, I was searching for an identity, a community.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm. CHRISTIAN: And a purpose.

MARIANA: Christian was ripe for radicalization.

And on a street corner in 1987,

he was approached by a skinhead leader and

recruited on the spot.

CHRISTIAN: That man told me that I mattered.

Nobody had ever told me that before.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.

CHRISTIAN: And I bought into the ideas.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.

CHRISTIAN: That they put into my head because

it made me feel powerful.

SONYA (over TV): With me today, Chris Picciolini,

19 years old, director of the Illinois chapter

of the Northern Hammer Skinheads.

CHRISTIAN (over TV): Well, I believe we're warriors today and

we're fighting for a great cause which is the white race.

CHRISTIAN: I noticed my life changed immediately.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.

CHRISTIAN: I went from somebody who was had been

bullied to now somebody who was feared.

MARIANA: Christian describes his radicalization as a

descent into a community of like‐minded individuals.

They consumed a potent mix of race‐based conspiracy theories

and misinformation that fueled their anger and

justified their attacks.

I wonder how that radicalization process

compares to today.

♪ Damn, I'm so old ♪

♪ Just call me a shrink ♪♪

CHRISTIAN: In my day, it was very face‐to‐face,

but what's happened now, is the internet has kind of

become that digital alley that I was recruited in except it's

an all you can eat, 24 hour hate buffet.

And there are millions and millions of young people like

I was at 14 years old.

MARIANA: What about the El Paso shooter?

CHRISTIAN: The whole idea of a lone wolf is a misnomer.

Uh, while there are white supremacists who may never, in real life,

meet another white supremacist.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.

CHRISTIAN: That doesn't mean they're not connected.

MARIANA: The internet is a technological game changer

amplifying lies and weaponizing propaganda

like never before.

Extremists are flooding social media and encrypted chat forums,

creating an alternate universe of imaginary threats,

where lies become truth, and conspiracy becomes reality.

As of May 2021, Facebook banned 250 groups linked

to white supremacy.

Often what starts as edgy memes that target young men on platforms

like Reddit, Twitter,

and others, quickly spirals into more extreme content.

The El Paso shooter,

for example, wrote that he was inspired by a manifesto posted online

by a shooter in New Zealand who live‐streamed himself

murdering 51 Muslims.

Called "The Great Replacement,"

this manifesto justified the killings as a defense of white culture

from the existential threat posed

by Muslims, minorities, and immigrants.

The fact that these white genocide fears have been

debunked time and again over centuries means little online.

Within the echo chamber of the movement,

the New Zealand shooter's manifesto is revered and

used to indoctrinate new recruits.

All too often, that's how it works.

The speed of online radicalization helps

explain why race‐based attacks are on the rise.

As Christian said,

"Nobody is born to hate,

it's learned."

MOLLIE: By every metric, white supremacy extremism is

the greatest terrorism threat to the United States.

Far greater than the threat posed by organizations like

Al Qaeda or ISIS.

MARIANA: Do you think we're taking this threat seriously?

MOLLIE: No, this threat is not taken, um,

as serious, uh, as it needs to be.

MARIANA: Mollie Saltskog is a senior intelligence analyst

for the Soufan Group and an expert on

the rising extremism threat in America.

She tells me that in the 20 years since 9/11,

white supremacists have committed nearly

three times as many attacks on U. S. soil

as Islamic extremists.

MOLLIE: We've seen how white supremacy extremist groups here in the

United States are sharing Al Qaeda manuals online,

on how to build bombs, on how to recruit.

They are organizing in the similar ways that Al Qaeda was

organizing in the years leading up to 9/11.

DR. ERROLL: The policy has always followed what

I call the Other.

The other ethnicity, the other religion,

the other nationality.

9/11 made it easy.

We could focus on Islam and jihadis.

MARIANA: Professor, author, and former FBI special agent,

Doctor Erroll Southers has dedicated his life to

combating violent extremists.

DR. ERROLL: America has two problems.

Number one, we don't want to believe that Americans can be terrorists.

And second, they definitely don't want to use the T word

if it's a white male.

When you hear about the El Paso shooter,

nobody wants to talk about him being ideologically motivated.

We pivot away from that.

Must have been a lone wolf,

must have had some mental health issues,

because it's more comfortable for us.

Now, America's denial is just incredible.

MARIANA: What Southers is diagnosing is a national blind spot,

an inability for a country founded by and still

largely run by white people to recognize the very real threat

of white supremacy extremism.

Mollie, which groups in particular, sort of,

worry you the most?

MOLLIE: The groups that need to provoke, um,

a race war to build their white ethno‐state.

MARIANA: This is who I want to find.

The groups pushing for a race war.

The terrorists that the U. S.

has been so reluctant to label terrorists.

ARTHUR: If you have an invasion coming into your country,

you don't politely ask the people invading to leave, you kill them.

♪ ♪

MARIANA: Over the last several years, the U. S.

has seen an increase in racially motivated violence.

Many called these lone wolf attacks,

but nothing could be further from the truth.

JAMES: Well, if you're gonna be on the side of history,

that's what happens when high civilizations permit

themselves to go colored.

MARIANA: I'm in Denver to meet one of the men pulling

the strings of this movement.

JAMES: We're called haters and who in their right mind

can love what's going on in this country today?

MARIANA: James Mason has been pushing conspiracies about

white genocide for more than five decades.

BOB (over TV): You do want to bring about violent revolution.

JAMES (over TV): It's going to happen on its own.

BOB (over TV): No, no, that's cute, that's cute.

JAMES (over TV): No one can, no one can stop it.

No one.

MARIANA: In 1986, Mason tried to help this revolution along.

He published Siege,

a kind of white supremacist bible that

calls for terror attacks just like Al Qaeda and ISIS.

So, are you concerned at all that your writings and

your words can inspire people to do horrific things?

JAMES: If it's going to produce something,

if it's a proper target,

then it isn't, in my opinion,

even a murder.

MARIANA: Mason had fallen into obscurity for decades,

but in 2015, a new generation of extremists

inspired by Mason's ideas

created the Atomwaffen Division.

Its members have plotted a variety of terror attacks,

including targeting a nuclear power plant in Florida.

They now have cells in at least three different countries

and are linked to five murders

in the United States.

So, you wouldn't take offense if I asked you

if you consider yourself a terrorist?

ARTHUR: I don't consider myself a terrorist.

Now, is that something I would be opposed to if I thought it

would help us take power in the United States?

No.

MARIANA: By day, Arthur is a 28 year old salesman,

but he's also

the Colorado cell leader for the National Socialist Order,

the latest rebranding of the Atomwaffen Division.

How did you find your neo‐Nazi beliefs?

ARTHUR: I was looking for a worldview,

for an ideology to explain why things were going so haywire.

MARIANA: What, in the world, were you seeing going haywire?

What wasn't working?

ARTHUR: I mean, everything.

Political discord.

Racial discord.

People being so alienated.

Shootings.

Drug addiction.

I felt that there must be something that could stop

all of this from happening.

MARIANA: It's striking how similar Arthur's story is

to Christian's, roughly 30 years earlier.

CHRISTIAN: I was searching for three really important things.

I was searching for an identity,

a community, and a purpose.

MARIANA: Arthur found the answers he was looking for

online on a now defunct neo‐Nazi message board

known as Iron March.

The Southern Poverty Law Center reports that

the forum is linked to murders and

terrorism across multiple countries.

Iron March is where Arthur connected with fellow fascists

and was first introduced to the writings of James Mason.

What are your thoughts on the New Zealand shooter?

ARTHUR: I think the only thing that he did wrong was

that he didn't kill more.

MARIANA: That is such a horrific thing to say.

I mean, I, do you do, do you, uh,

is it, is it for the shock value that you say these things?

ARTHUR: Not for shock value at all.

If you have an invasion coming into your country,

you don't politely ask the people invading to leave.

You kill them.

(tv static)

MARIANA: Arthur and the National Socialist Order are

now creating videos to radicalize others.

How many people do you think have seen this video?

ARTHUR: Thousands I'm sure.

MARIANA: Isn't this a clear incitement of violence?

ARTHUR: Oh, I mean, maybe.

I, I wouldn't necessarily.

MARIANA: Oh, maybe? Maybe?

ARTHUR: Necessarily.

MARIANA: The, it's three steps, and the third is act,

and its people shooting at the other people.

ARTHUR: Well, I mean, we didn't ever tell anybody

to go out and do this act.

Maybe we implied it, but we didn't ever tell anybody

to go out and do something.

MARIANA: Despite these obvious threats, the U. S. government has

yet to label groups like the NSO as

domestic terror organizations.

Even though, they are mirroring the strategies of

Al Qaeda and ISIS, and not just online.

REPORTER (over TV): Three teenage girls in our community

accused of trying to travel to Syria in an effort to join ISIS.

REPORTER 2 (over TV): Many of them attracted to join the terrorist army

through slick propaganda on social media websites.

MARIANA: I remember the outrage when the American public learned

that dozens of Muslims from the U. S.

had flown to Syria and Iraq to join ISIS.

Now, American white supremacists are

heading overseas to gain combat experience

that they can use when they return home.

(rapid gunfire)

DR. ERROLL: This is a transnational movement,

we are seeing similar patterns in other countries that have

the same problem, same demographic,

many American groups now are traveling,

overseas for training, and to connect.

MARIANA: I asked Mason what he can confirm.

JAMES: There were some, uh,

Atomwaffen people who went over to the Ukraine,

who went through some of their training.

And they came back with some pretty glowing reports.

And I was, I was delighted, just,

just delighted.

MARIANA: Who are those people who came back from Ukraine?

JAMES: They were, um, they were Americans, yes.

MARIANA: Can you tell me their names?

JAMES: Are you kidding?

(laughs)

I could, but I won't.

(laughs)

MARIANA: All my research points to Ukraine as well.

It's gained a reputation as a major hub for the global

white supremacy movement.

(chanting)

I've traveled 6,000 miles to Eastern Europe

to understand why.

And to see if I can find any Americans who have been drawn

to this brand of racial extremism.

MAN (over PA): Hail Nazis!

(chanting)

MAN (over PA): Hail Nazis!

♪ ♪

MARIANA: The importance of Ukraine to the global

white supremacy movement can be traced back to 2014.

REPORTER (over TV): Ukraine's military is on high alert this morning.

Thousands of Russian ground and naval forces occupy

the Crimean Peninsula.

The Ukrainian military is mobilizing troops and

calling on Army Reservists to report for duty immediately.

MARIANA: Ukraine's military was overwhelmed,

so volunteer militias stepped in to fight.

Some of these militias believed in racist and

neo‐Nazi ideologies.

But with a country desperate to defend itself,

the Ukrainian government made a devil's bargain.

They armed these militias,

paid them, and ultimately legitimized them.

Extremist members recruited other extremists

from around the world to come join the battle,

including some Americans.

Ukraine became their training grounds in preparation for

a race war back home.

EMILE: There was definitely a draw of men that were coming

here to fight because access was quite easy.

A lot of them went to the Nazi groups,

to the extremist groups and guys who,

with little military experience,

were turning up in Kiev, and within days being in a trench.

MARIANA: Right.

EMILE: With an AK‐47 shooting at Russian separatists.

(rapid gunfire)

And no one really knows what they're up to.

No one knows what skills they're learning,

what they've actually been doing.

MARIANA: Emile Ghessen served 12 years in the

British military as a Royal Marine Commando before

becoming a full‐time journalist.

In 2016, he traveled to Ukraine's front lines to

document the influx of these foreign fighters.

Do you think it's dangerous to have so many of them out there

in the world dispersed with all this training?

EMILE: I see some of these guys learn weapons and

bomb tactics, and no one's vetting them.

It's lawless.

All it takes is one guy to carry out a terrorist attack.

And especially, in certain countries,

like the United States of America,

where access to weapons is quite easy.

MARIANA: Days before my arrival,

Ukrainian state security

deported two American extremists

who allegedly created this new Atomwaffen video.

(speaking in native language)

EMILE: Crazy, it's dangerous, isn't it?

MARIANA: It's incredibly dangerous.

Only months earlier,

Ukrainian intelligence arrested another extremist,

who was allegedly selling translated copies of

the New Zealand shooter's manifesto.

The same manifesto that inspired the shooter in El Paso.

Can you tell me what happened the day you were arrested?

MARIANA: Russian, Alexander Skatchkov eagerly

enlisted in Ukraine's far right militias in 2014.

He's currently out on bail, awaiting trial.

So, what I read in the American media was that

law enforcement here found a network of neo‐Nazis that were

selling this book and they were stockpiling weapons.

Were you part of this network?

MARIANA: How did you get it?

ALEXANDER: Uh...

MARIANA: Skatchkov didn't come alone.

He brought his attorney with him.

He's in the room, advising his client,

but refused permission for his face or his voice to be recorded.

MARIANA: What's happening?

MARIANA: Okay, got it.

Skatchkov's lawyer advises him to say it's his hobby to

collect right‐wing literature.

So, what do you think of the New Zealand shooter?

(laughs)

ALEXANDER: No.

MARIANA: The New Zealand manifesto doesn't label immigrants as newcomers.

It calls them invaders.

And it's clear in the manifesto,

how white people should deal with these invaders.

Do you know that this manifesto has been used, um,

in other parts of the world,

including in the United States,

to inspire other mass murders?

MARIANA: And that's the temptation for extremists

around the world.

The desire to be a part of a global movement to assert white dominance.

Are you a Nazi?

(laughs)

Your T‐shirt, um, has a lot of Nazi symbols.

MARIANA: And is that a person doing

the Hitler salute in the middle?

(laughs)

MARIANA: None of this is a coincidence.

Despite the efforts of the government to combat it,

Ukraine is clearly home to a thriving white supremacist underworld.

One that's lured more than a few American extremists.

And thankfully, through Emile,

it looks like I may have found one.

He tells us to meet him on a corner near a Metro station.

So, he hasn't even given you a coffee shop,

or a bar, or an actual location for us to meet?

EMILE: Uh, they'll give you a rendezvous point and

then they'll come physically to, sort of watch you.

To see what you're up to.

MARIANA: Oh, wow, okay.

EMILE: Make sure you're not with anyone else, um.

Do reconnaissance of the area and then come in.

MARIANA: I'm heading to meet one of Ukraine's most infamous veterans.

A former U. S. soldier named Caig Lang.

EMILE: He's a bit of a Ukrainian hero.

They love him here because he was here from

the original outbreak of the war.

He's been in the trenches, but he doesn't really like

to talk to journalists or anyone from the media.

MARIANA: Lang served six years in the U. S. Army

before being discharged for going AWOL and

threatening to kill his then wife.

CRAIG (over TV): I came to Ukraine to come and help the Ukrainian people.

MARIANA: In 2015, he headed to Ukraine to join Right Sector,

a volunteer militia with an extremist reputation.

So, Lang was actually recruiting Americans to come here?

EMILE: A lot of the guys, volunteers for the United States

and Europe, who are coming over here would contact Lang

and then he was there facilitating them get,

to get to the front line quite easy with the Right Sector.

MARIANA: So, it was, sort of, a, a

Nazi organization or associated with Nazis?

EMILE: So, yeah.

I wouldn't say all the volunteers were Nazis,

but they're guilty by association really.

MARIANA: So, what is he doing in Ukraine right now?

EMILE: He's wanted by the American FBI.

MARIANA: Lang may be a hero to some in Ukraine,

but back in the States, he's wanted for murder.

In 2018, Lang and an accomplice were accused of

gunning down a husband and wife during a robbery in Florida.

He then fled back to Ukraine to evade American authorities.

Are you concerned that you're bringing in

a journalist without telling him?

EMILE: He might feel like I've tricked him.

MARIANA: Right, that's what I mean.

EMILE: And done a runaround, and then he might actually go

into panic mode thinking that you're linked to the FBI.

So, I think we need to be a bit, quite cautious.

MARIANA: So, you guys stay in the car.

We're about a block away.

(bell ringing)

MARIANA: At a cafe, next to the Metro station,

the American fugitive finally shows up with

his Ukrainian fiancée and their baby.

Just sitting across from someone like Lang proves Emile's warning,

that American extremists are out here and that

no one knows what they'll do next.

Lang is suspicious about what I want and

who I'm working for.

He decides he doesn't want to go on camera.

He thought that it was sort of a setup.

EMILE: Hmm.

MARIANA: That the FBI was trying to snatch him.

EMILE: I think the thing with him as well.

He thinks anyone, like yourself,

American could be a setup.

Even that you're saying you work for National Geographic.

MARIANA: National Geographic.

EMILE: He still thinks that you potentially could be working with,

he thinks you're working for the Russians actually.

And it just goes to show that, that, uh,

that these guys are living this life of where they're

so scared that anyone can pick them up because

they are living on the edge as such.

MARIANA: But Craig Lang is not the only American whose

beliefs have brought him to Ukraine.

This 2018 footage is from an MMA event here in Kyiv hosted

by one of the country's most notorious far‐right militias.

The event brought together white supremacist from

across Europe and the U. S.

One of the featured fighters was this man,

American Robert Rundo.

An infamous figure in white supremacist circles

who's been on the run from American authorities.

In fact, I heard rumors that he might still be in Kyiv,

but I end up tracking him down,

600 miles south of here.

MAN: Come on.

MARIANA: In Belgrade, Serbia.

MAN: Come on. Come on!

MARIANA: Finally, an American willing to talk.

♪ ♪

(panting)

MARIANA: Would you say you're a white supremacist?

ROBERT: No, I would say I'm a white nationalist,

100% though.

Big difference.

You know, when you say white supremacists,

you make it sound like all I want to do is step on other people.

When I say I'm a white nationalist,

it's just that I want a better future for my people.

Yeah, I say some stuff that's a little edgy or whatever,

but am I killing people?

Am I doing anything like this,

am I promoting to kill?

No.

MARIANA: Sure, but you still have Nazi tattoos in your body.

ROBERT: Well, I went to prison,

you know, so, you know.

MARIANA: I asked you because I don't think you were even

trying to hide the fact, right?

ROBERT: I don't hide the fact. MARIANA: I mean.

ROBERT: No, I'm an, I'm a white nationalist.

I'm, for sure, I'm a nationalist, you know, what can I say?

Well, maybe you should look at, like,

the product that, of the environment I grew in before, like,

you guys want to demonize me and make me this.

(boat horn wailing)

MARIANA: Robert Rundo's odyssey began in

Queens, New York, where he grew up in a rough,

working class neighborhood.

As a teenager, he joined a local gang and

in 2009 went to prison for three years

for stabbing a rival member of MS‐13.

(shouting)

But Rundo captured national attention in 2017.

MAN: (bleep).

REPORTER (over TV): That's Robert Rundo beating a counter protester.

REPORTER 2 (over TV): The FBI says Rundo is a founding member of

a white supremacy extremist group,

headquartered in Southern California

known as RAM.

ROBERT (over phone): If anyone wants to know,

this is what we're about, it's Rise Above Movement.

MARIANA: Rundo tells me RAM promoted clean living and

self‐pride for white youth, but the truth is they also

denounced immigration and the very idea of multiculturalism

by spreading racist and anti‐Semitic propaganda

on social media.

When RAM started showing up at political rallies,

violently clashing with protestors,

the FBI got involved.

Some members were arrested and faced criminal charges

that were eventually dismissed.

Rundo is facing his own criminal charges of inciting a riot and yet

remains in Europe in hiding.

I know you consider yourself a nationalist.

Do you consider yourself a racist as well?

ROBERT: I'm a race‐realist, sure.

Like, I, I, I, you know,

I understand that we're all different.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm. ROBERT: That's fine.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

MARIANA: I think 99% of the population out there would

have an issue with being called a racist and

you're just, you're embracing it?

ROBERT: Uh, I don't really talk about other races, really.

I just want to see the best for my people.

Rise Above Movement was about us.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm. ROBERT: Just for us.

MARIANA: So, why do you think they came after you?

ROBERT: Because we did something appealing.

We don't look like you're,

what the media likes to portray.

We look like we could be in the mainstream.

And you'd be surprised how many people share our views

and stuff like this.

MARIANA: Rundo is slippery about his end goals,

but his brand of white supremacy sounds

different than the masked extremists and the neo‐Nazis I've met.

When you speak to James Mason, for example,

he's proud of being a Nazi, but then when you speak to

somebody like Rundo he uses these words that are much more palatable.

Now, who do you think is more dangerous?

CHRISTIAN: I think that Rundo and Mason speak to different audiences.

MARIANA: Right.

CHRISTIAN: But the goal is the same.

But outside, the suits that

they wear are much different...

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm. CHRISTIAN: Right?

I think somebody like Rundo is dangerous

because he can go after the middle.

The middle is the recruiting pool.

MAN: Ready? Let's roll.

ROBERT: What's going on guys?

Rob Rundo here with the guidelines to Rise Project.

Uh, another weekly video update.

MARIANA: And that's exactly what Rundo is doing.

He's continuing to build an online following around

the shared sense of white resentment.

ROBERT (over phone): Your skin is your uniform, man.

You don't need to be super explicit.

You don't need to be edgy.

Trust me.

They'll, they'll hate you regardless.

MAN: Come on, come on.

MARIANA: Rundo's strategy might be working.

I wasn't the only American from Southern California

spending time with Rundo in Serbia.

(grunting)

MARIANA: His sparring partner flew here from San Diego

inspired by Rundo's presence online.

MAN: Good.

ROBERT: Last in the gas tank.

MARIANA: What do you think of RAM?

MAN: I think that RAM is, uh,

one of the most inspirational things in the American Nationalist scene.

You know, I only have positive things to say about Rob.

MARIANA: On the spectrum of right‐wing extremist groups,

Rundo is like a gateway drug.

He calls his white supremacy, white nationalism and

disguises his racism as pride.

It's a soft pitch, tailored for the mainstream.

ROBERT: I think there's a strong nationalist movement

happening everywhere.

People want to be heard, you know,

and eventually they'll look for alternatives to be heard.

MARIANA: Increasingly, it seems those alternatives in

the U. S. are not overtly hateful.

You see, the white supremacy movement learned from the

backlash to the 2017 Unite The Right rally in Charlottesville.

No one wants to be seen publicly as a racist.

The movement still depends on the same misinformation and

conspiracy theories like the Great Replacement,

but their hate has been laundered.

Their pitch, reframed.

Now, it's not about attacking immigrants,

or Blacks, or Jews, it's about defending white culture.

We see it with Rundo and back home,

we see it with groups like the Proud Boys.

ALL: Proud boys.

(cheering)

♪ ♪

(car horns honking)

(cheering)

ENRIQUE: We're not looking for trouble.

We just want to wave our flags and

we want to send our message.

We don't ask you what color you are or

what religion you are.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.

ENRIQUE: Or what your culture is.

It doesn't matter to us.

The tenets are what matters to us and that you believe that,

you know, Western civilization is the best civilization.

MARIANA: This is Enrique Tarrio,

leader of "The Proud Boys."

An all‐male political organization that claims to

defend Western culture.

Like Rundo, the group claims not to be racist,

but many members wear symbols and use gestures associated

with white supremacy.

Proud Boys from all across the country have descended on

Portland today to organize a protest and they've given me

unique backstage access.

One of the worries about the presence of the Proud Boys

here is just that it increases the chance of violence, right?

ENRIQUE: Hmm.

MARIANA: Of confrontations that turn violent which has happened.

JOE (over speaker): It echoes around the world that

we love this (bleep) country and

we're never gonna (bleep) back down,

and we're going to stand up to anybody that tries to (bleep) with us, roger?

Let's do this.

(cheering)

MARIANA: Joe Biggs is another leader of the group.

He's an army veteran who fought in

the 82nd Airborne in Iraq and Afghanistan.

JOE (over speaker): I (bleep) fought overseas...

MAN: Thank you for service!

JOE (over speaker): For years and years.

MAN 2: Yeah.

JOE (over speaker): I didn't fight for Florida.

I fought for the United States of America.

That means every city in this country is my (bleep) city and

your city, and your city.

(cheering)

ALL: USA. USA. USA.

MARIANA: The Proud Boys formed in 2016 to push back against

political correctness and what they allege is

the white‐guilt agenda

of the left.

They now claim as many as 12,000 members nationwide,

who believe Western civilization is under siege

and that the media is part of the problem.

(shouting)

MARIANA: They saw a journalist that they believe is from CNN,

basically mob mentality, kicking that journalist out.

But this is what happens in events like this.

You know, they can say this is peaceful all they want,

but this is what we've been seeing happening again,

and again, and again.

Moments later, we become the target.

MARIANA: Hey, hey, hey. MAN: Whoa, whoa, hey.

MARIANA: Hey, hey, hey, hey. MAN: Hey, hey, hey, come on.

We're...

Get the (bleep) out of here.

CHRISTIAN: By their own definition the Proud Boys are a

Western chauvinist organization.

And, uh, and if you take away the,

the wrapping paper of those flowery words,

Western chauvinist means European power, right?

Or white power.

You know, they don't look like white supremacists

or neo‐Nazis, but they've done a good job of shielding

who they truly are and even in some cases,

having members who are not white, be part of their group.

MARIANA: Including their own leader.

CHRISTIAN: Including, including their now leader.

Right.

DR. ERROLL: We call him their "one not‐white guy," so okay.

These groups are really good at appealing to the guy and girl next door.

They start asking those questions.

"Do you feel like you're losing your country?

Do you have that job?

Did you get that car?

Are you buying that home?

You know why you're not?

Because of them.

It's because of them.

There's no grey area here, you're either for them,

or for us, and yourself."

MAN: Bring it in. Bring it in tight.

One, two, three.

DR. ERROLL: Now, once that starts to take hold,

you've got this, what I call, enabling community.

(cheering)

MARIANA: This is the slippery slope of radicalization.

As the anger intensifies, as the lies and hate spread,

and mix with other ideologies,

the possibility of extreme violence becomes very real.

And on January 6th, 2021, we witnessed what happens when

groups like the Proud Boys and others are mobilized.

And the anger, lies, and conspiracies move from

the digital world into the real one.

(shouting)

♪ ♪

(shouting)

MAN: They're climbing up the wall!

(cheering)

(shouting)

MARIANA: Like most Americans, I was horrified by the attack

on our nation's capital by a mob of right‐wing extremists.

(cheering)

MARIANA: What shocked me even more was that

I personally knew one of the attackers.

JOE: Who's (bleep) ready?

(cheering)

MARIANA: It was only weeks earlier that I spent time with

Joe Biggs and listened to him as he passionately defended law and order

and peaceful protests.

Now, he's been arrested under suspicion that he helped plan

the violent attempt to overthrow our democracy.

DR. ERROLL: We knew something was going to happen on January 6th.

The intelligence was overwhelming.

They expected 20,000 people.

People were going to be armed.

They were going to target members of Congress.

MARIANA: Yet, despite all these warnings

the federal response to Washington's Black Lives Matter protest

six months earlier was significantly stronger.

DR. ERROLL: At the end of the day,

it comes down to race.

Race is the 800 pound gorilla in the room.

MARIANA: Even if the capitol riot wasn't only plotted by white supremacists,

it's playing perfectly into their hands.

Re‐energizing the same old myths about white genocide.

JAMES: The whites in this country know it in their,

the depths of their soul that they are being sold out and

that they are losing their country.

MARIANA: Do you think violence is justified?

JAMES: Yes, you can do two things.

You can give it up, lay down, roll over,

or you can fight.

ARTHUR: Once white voters realize that their party

can't win anymore, they're going to start looking for alternatives.

And if they really want another solution,

they will eventually come to us.

MARIANA: It wasn't just America's extremists

who felt this way.

White supremacists around the world let out

a collective cheer on social media.

Even Robert Rundo weighed in.

It seems to me like there's a fire spreading.

Do you think it's too late to stop this?

MOLLIE: It is not too late.

(screaming)

The threat looks different than it did two decades ago

and we need to adapt our security apparatus to be able

to counter this threat.

MARIANA: For 20 years, Islamic extremists groups have been

designated foreign terrorist organizations

by the U. S. government.

This designation gives American law enforcement agents a

far greater ability to monitor their communications

and prosecute these groups for what they are, terrorists.

If Arthur and the NSO were Muslim extremists,

this video would be illegal.

The FBI would be knocking on Arthur's door

and potentially putting him in jail.

But right now, there is no federal statute that labels

white supremacists groups as domestic terrorists.

CHRISTOPHER: That attack, that siege was criminal behavior,

plain and simple, and it's behavior that we,

the FBI, view as domestic terrorism.

It's got no place.

MARIANA: In testimony, before Congress, FBI Director

Christopher Wray made a point of saying that

his agency takes the domestic terror threat as

seriously as it takes ISIS or Al Qaeda,

but he also said this.

CHRISTOPHER: As I've said many times,

we do not investigate ideology,

but we focus on acts of violence,

and violations of federal law.

MARIANA: If that's the threshold, white supremacy extremists

have plenty of room to operate.

They can spread their hate,

they can recruit, and radicalize.

And until they do something illegal,

like shoot up a Walmart,

they are free to live among us,

festering until they pop.

For me, you sort of represent that light at the end of

the tunnel because you are somebody that was radicalized

and then managed to get out of it.

CHRISTIAN: We were taught that the world was hostile to us

and what I eventually saw.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.

CHRISTIAN: Uh, was that the world was nothing like

what I had been sold for those eight years.

MARIANA: Christian explains that his own de‐radicalization

took place at the record store he owned at the time.

CHRISTIAN: And it was the first time I had meaningful

interactions with people who were Jewish,

who were Black, who were gay.

Uh, and because I wanted to be a good businessperson,

when they were in my store.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.

CHRISTIAN: Uh, I bit my tongue.

And then, over time, uh, it started to win over,

the fact that I had more respect for the people that

I had hated.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.

CHRISTIAN: Than I did with the people I had surrounded myself with.

MARIANA: Since then, he's helped hundreds of people disengage from extremism.

CHRISTIAN: I would say I get at least one request

for help a day.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm. CHRISTIAN: Sometimes multiple.

Text messages, social media messages,

phone calls, people find me from all over the world.

And if I can change...

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.

CHRISTIAN: I know that other people can too.

GILBERT: I don't think the proper way of handling things

by killing each other.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.

GILBERT: Or, or saying, "I'm better than you."

And boom.

What makes you better than other, other human beings?

We're all equal in God's eyes.

I guess that's the way I see it.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.

Before I said goodbye,

Gilbert Anchondo pulled me aside.

He told me he's forgiven his son's killer,

but not what's inside him.

And what's inside him is still out there.

Radicalizing and recruiting.

DR. ERROLL: It's like any other form of terrorism,

you will never eliminate it.

The metric of success in dealing with this

domestic terrorism is can we contain it?

The good news about that is we know who they are.

The hoods and the robes have come off, and we have to respond.

Captioned by Cotter Media Group.