Original subtitles

All right.

So we are going to film the consent talk. All right.

Spanking. Do you feel OK with spanking? OK, so we'll try to stick with some,

like, medium spanking, if that's OK.

Head to toe, do you mind your hair being touched?

That's totally fine. Totally okay?

I'm cool with that, yeah. Totally okay, great.

Chest, back, arms, do you mind being touched? That's totally cool. Okay,

I'm going to keep the same safe words. I'm going to use mercy or yellow and red

or stop and cut. Look into the camera if I need to.

Okay, we got it.

In Los Angeles, I was traversing a battleground over consent.

One of the...

Criticisms that's been made of you is that you can be pushy.

The vast and lucrative industry of adult film has been transformed

by social media with a new generation of performers making fortunes on their own

online and using their new power to call out alleged predatory behavior.

I called him. He said everything was fine. You know, I'm Ron Jeremy and

safe with me.

while an old guard is pushing back at what they see as trial by Twitter. The

women have come up with a narrative and script that is unbelievably similar.

I was attempting to figure out what good practice looked like.

Are you flirting with me?

I'm your step -sister. That's wrong.

In a world dedicated to pushing boundaries of taste and taboo.

He allegedly raped her, then, like...

signed a napkin or a piece of paper and gave it to her as an autograph.

In a $4 million castle outside Portland, one of the biggest names in porn was

about to do a shoot.

Wait, say where?

I think Agent Provocateur is going to be best. Maybe something red or white

would be good. What about this one? This one's new.

That one works. Okay.

A performer with 10 years in the business, these days Mia Malkova works

exclusively from home, shooting with her boyfriend Justin and uploading daily to

social media sites.

Okay, perfect, right there. Will you turn your booty towards the light a

bit more?

Right there, freeze.

Eyes to me.

Right there, perfect.

So how many subscribers do you have on Instagram?

Um, 9 .4 million.

And what about OnlyFans?

Um, I think I might have 40, 40 ,000 right now.

Which sounds like much less, but they're all paying is the big difference,

right? That is the big difference, yeah.

Three, two, one.

Okay, sweet.

Would you be comfortable giving me a rough idea of how much you are making

through OnlyFans?

Yeah.

150 to 250, depending on the month.

150 ,000 to 250 ,000?

Yeah. Wow. I love OnlyFans. I didn't make that while I was shooting for

And I'm in complete control of everything. I do it from home. I do what

how I like.

It's a better quality of living.

All right, action.

Mia is at the top of a new economy of adult film.

You walk forward towards the chair.

One of the most successful of thousands of young performers using social media

who've transformed the industry almost beyond recognition.

Is that who I want? Right there? Perfect.

Able to make money on their own terms, many have used their new power to police

the industry and establish better standards for how sex takes place.

In Pasadena, north of Los Angeles, I had an appointment with a couple who work

in porn. Can we come in?

Named Michael Vegas and Susie Q, they are two of the new generation of porn

activists.

They were shooting content for their social media accounts with their

Honey Milk and Lola Faye.

Do you want to do some pulling some things to the side?

Wait, like my holes?

Yeah, they can't see it, but I can.

Holes doesn't sound very romantic, Michael.

No.

It's the romance hole, Louie. If you put romance in front of it.

That comes much better.

Today, for our scene, we are doing a foursome, and we are making it fit with

of our social media platforms, and so there's going to be some pegging, and

there's going to be... Pegging is? Pegging is like a strapped -on dildo and

harness for penetration.

Someone will be pegging me, hopefully, if all is going according to plan. And

you like being pegged, don't you? Oh, I love it so much.

Gosh, you can ask any... You can ask anybody in the business. I love it so

It just really... Just the right spot.

It's the best way I can put it.

One, two, three.

One, two, three.

What's it like? Is it weirdly empowering or just it is what it is? It's great to

walk into an encounter that, like, where you know you're not the one being

penetrated. Yeah. But why would that be great?

I mean...

What do you usually do during sex?

Do you penetrate or are you penetrating?

Most of the time... Yeah, if I get lucky, I'm the one penetrating. Okay,

So you can imagine that flipping that and doing something different would feel

different, right? Would feel very different, for sure. Yeah, that's all.

Is one of these Michael's?

This one.

That's not real size, though. It's scaled up. Scaled up, yeah.

I was curious to speak to Michael and Susie about the changes going on in the

industry.

With the pegging successfully concluded and everyone more relaxed, there was a

moment to talk.

Wow. How was it?

Outstanding. The scene went very fluid and smooth.

No surprises?

Yeah, I feel like it went surprisingly good.

Now with social media platforms, performers have the ability to call out

experiences and go public.

And I just wondered if you had any observations about that.

historically as sex workers we haven't had any way to report violence or

problems against us there's no way to stay safe as a sex worker so yelling out

loud in a crowd which is social media is the only means of like trying to keep

your friends safe from predators and a performer who felt violated in some way

would be going to the police and maybe saying

i expected to do vaginal but anal happened or a male hand came from behind

camera and pinched my bum and the police might say well these are academic

distinctions right like what is what is the big deal i consented to something

and then something else happened that was without my consent i don't know why

that's hard to understand you know like no matter what the situation michael and

i met on a

hardcore gangbang set but you know you'll go for a time and then you'll

it's not faux pas to be like hey is your knee okay yeah you want to change

positions and so there really there really is a true conversation that's

happening with your scene partner and like that is consent all the way through

so how would how would you characterize what's going on right now is this a live

issue some of the top

like names in the industry, some of the top earners in the industry are in a

position where they will only shoot for the right partner and the right amount

of money and the right sort of like convenience to their day. You know, it's

really... Why? Because they have the leverage now through their own platform

say no. Exactly. They have the leverage to say no.

Is there a battle within the industry?

Like, how is it taking place?

Some of these old dudes that were here to be creeps are frustrated and leave.

They can't. I can't work like this. I might hurt somebody's feelings or I

assault them. Like, yeah, you probably will. You shouldn't be here. Go away.

Thanks. Bye. It's a reckoning. Out with the old, in with the new.

There will always be predators in any industry.

But the more that we talk about things and the more that we weed them out, the

more scared that they are, honestly.

The shift taking place within porn reflects changes in the wider culture,

younger generation pushing for clearer conversations about consent and an old

guard standing accused of harbouring predators.

Have you done already some blowjob?

Yes, I do blowjob all the time.

One of those under suspicion is a 58 -year -old director and performer who

by the porn name Pierre Woodman.

Have you been tied up?

Pierre's scenes are known for being on the more extreme end.

On several occasions, he's been accused of violating performance boundaries,

accusations he denies.

Though he often works with American talent, Pierre is based 6 ,000 miles

.A. in Budapest.

He was shooting at a hotel.

Hello.

You must be Pierre.

Hello. How do you do?

Good. Nice to meet you. What's your name?

Alberto. Alberto, nice to meet you.

Louis.

Xerezade. Nice to meet you.

Xerezade. Do you speak English?

A little bit.

A little bit. A little bit.

When girls like Xerezade come from Spain, doesn't speak English, I come to

translate. So you're the director? Mm -hmm. And you'll be doing the shooting

well? Yes. And performing?

Unfortunately, yes.

Yes.

A ver, aquí me pones nombre de artistas, stage name.

Scheherazade.

Scheherazade. How old are you?

¿Qué años tengo? 25.

25.

And how many scenes have you done so far?

Three. Just three.

A ver, Sara, siéntate aquí tranquilamente.

Ahora solamente una video para la parte legal.

Am I right in thinking you videotape everything?

Everything. I have a new now.

So where are you? Have you got cameras going?

Yes. Where?

Hidden? Yeah, of course. It's your idea. Everything is recorded.

Really? That's making you smile.

Sorry. I tell the truth.

Things saved me many, many, many times. Some girl accused me some things that I

never did. Like, oh, I didn't want to do this.

Last time I had a British girl who said that she was slapped against her will.

Or one girl said, oh, he didn't pay me. Or he did something I didn't want to do.

Or blah, blah, blah.

Come on. And the big problem now is the Me Too.

Since there is this scandal with Harvey Weinstein, the Me Too, and all this

wave.

Many girls think, wow, time for me to get money.

What would be the motive for a woman to accuse you of

deceiving her or doing something against her will?

You ask me this question? Because they want to be successful performers, right?

And they want to go on and work again.

So in a way, there's a risk for them, which is...

If you make a false claim, then you're going to probably be blacklisted, right?

Most of the time when the girls make complaints, it's already when they're

finished with this job.

Some girls who today are 30 years old or 40 years old and they work 20 years

ago, those girls, because they have a simple life or problem with their

boyfriend or whatever, and they are in need of money, they try to use the MeToo

as a way to get money from people. This is one situation.

So, petite lady.

My God.

Has she already tried anal sex?

No, nunca.

She's okay to try today?

Sí.

Okay.

It's quite a big step to do anal for the first time.

Un poco, pero él es una persona que te hace estar a gusto, cómoda.

This is why, for me, I prefer a girl like her who never tried, because in her

brain she don't have any trauma.

Trauma.

She has anxiety, of course, but she doesn't have any personal trauma about

so it's perfect.

For me, she's the best.

Could we say you specialize in performing with young women who are

for the first time?

Yeah, my specificity is to do anal sex, because I have a secret.

My grandfather teach me one secret for that.

when I was very young. Your grandfather taught you? Yes, yes, yes.

And also because I don't have a penis like this, it helps a lot, because also

the size is important.

You have a relatively small penis?

17 centimeters.

I don't know if it's small.

Basically, when I was a young guy, I was thinking, oh, I don't have a huge

penis, but today, for me, it's an advantage.

All right, Charizard, can you please show me your body, if you don't mind?

yeah oh my god she has a nice injury look at this and

please if you don't mind turn around she feel good or she feel bad

okay sit down please

beautiful i

love her face so much she's so beautiful

It being her first anal scene, Scheherazade was receiving a higher than

rate of 1500 euros.

The shoot was happening in a suite three floors down.

Before the action, there would be a quick orientation.

She avoids looking if there's a plane passing in the sky.

You concentrate on the scene, don't look at the plane or the neighbor.

You don't look at the roof, you're completely in the scene.

Now.

The clacks, do you want them or not?

Do you get them or do you make them like in the movies?

Like in the movies? A fake one. He gives them to you, you do this.

No, if he gives me a weak one... He strangles you a bit.

How are you with kissing?

If one girl don't want to kiss you, generally she turns away. So it's very

to know if she wants or she don't want. Imagine you go somewhere and you don't

want something.

Like when you go to the restaurant.

Me, I don't want onion in my plate.

The first thing I say to the guy.

When I go to McDonald's, I want an hamburger, but no onion.

All right.

Talk to you in a little bit, then. Thank you so much, guys.

Thank you.

Bye. Thank you, Alberto.

See you later.

See you later.

See you later.

See you later. Thank you.

Having retired upstairs as the scene took place, I was mainly conscious of

Scheherazade might be feeling.

having her first ever anal sex on camera with someone whose language she didn't

speak and no one else around.

Two hours later, they emerged.

Oh, it's you who opened the door for us.

Hello. Hello.

I did not expect to see you here again.

How are you? How was it?

Ah, for me, good, but I don't know, it must have to her.

I think

she

enjoyed a lot, but it was the beginning of the situation, it was tough for five

minutes, and after, bam, everything goes well.

She had hard times too.

At the very beginning, hard times.

She even thought, I'm not going to do it.

I'm not going to be able to do it. Why?

Because I never did it before.

What was your reason for doing this today?

I'm in porn. I knew that Pierre would be the right person to start with this

annual thing in the porn business.

And your plan is to continue in porn for a number of years?

Yes. For the moment, yes.

Muchas gracias por todo.

Hasta más tarde.

Vaya con Dios.

You know, you've said that you specialize in having anal sex with

performers for the first time.

That's something.

Can you see that, in a way, that's a high -risk project for you? Because,

actually, by definition, they don't necessarily know what they're getting

right? And also, you're very... If I propose right now to fuck your ass, you

will not know what we speak about?

Come on.

Are you taking me like a stupid one? If I say, Louis, would you like me to fuck

your ass now? You will say, oh, I'm sorry, I don't know what you are

about. If you said to me, I'm going to fuck you in the ass, and I wouldn't know

what that... But I wouldn't really know what that was like.

OK. I know what the physical act is. Because you are not gay, you don't know

what it is. OK, fine. And then?

Will you say yes or not?

You know, it's just strange.

I'm a 51 -year -old man. I'm not an 18 -year -old girl.

If I was committed to trying to make it in porn, but I also hadn't really

thought through all the aspects of what that meant, and I thought I might dip a

toe in it, but I also had come from an upbringing that was maybe conservative.

I mean, there's so many dimensions to it. You are 18 years old. You're

to be able to know what you do or what you don't do.

In America, at 16 years old, you can drive a car, you can have a gun at 18,

you need to be 21 to drink one beer. It's not me who does the law.

What is wrong if I ask one girl, are you okay to get fucked in the ass by me?

And she said, yes.

I am a bad guy because she said yes.

I'm supposed to have speak to her in a way that she said yes, but she finally,

well, she didn't want really to do it, blah, blah, blah.

It's not my concern.

I'm here to do a job.

With Pierre, I had the sense of someone on the defensive who felt himself under

siege in a world where the rules were changing.

I was curious to learn more about how the practices of the new generation of

social media performers were intersecting with the old ways of the

I had an appointment with a webcam model who goes by Ginger Bank.

Ginger's been camming nearly 12 years.

In her entire career, she's made only a handful of studio films.

She makes her living almost exclusively from OnlyFans.

Hi, Ginger.

Hello. Louis, how do you do?

Good, how are you? Good to meet you. Can we come in? Yeah, please, come in.

The meeting began with some quick content creation.

Oh, this looks cool.

The light through it.

Tell me about what you do.

OnlyFans is mostly what I do right now. I use it to show the behind the scenes

of my life, naked pictures and videos of myself. And there's also videos of me

having sex that I have, you know, created. I'll get naked and dance around

play with myself.

That's my daily work.

And it goes up on OnlyFans and people can take out a subscription to see

Content yeah, it's basically whatever you want to put behind this paywall, you

know You walk it behind this paywall and they pay however much you want per

month It's like I think three dollars a month up three dollars a month up to

fifty dollars a month A lot of them just want to see an extra look into your

life This video is with Chanel Santini she's a really popular trans

performer

I wanted to have sex with her outside of work, so why not do it on camera and

get paid to do it? It looked like she might be choking you on her dick.

Um, I don't know, maybe for a second or two.

Of her thousands of videos, probably Ginger's best known is one she posted on

Twitter in 2017, calling out porn's most famous male performer, Ron Jeremy.

So do you want to talk about how this first came onto your radar, the whole

Jeremy? It started with a personal encounter with him, didn't it? I thought

he was just one of the multiple handsy people at the expo that I ran into. This

was 2016?

Yeah. And what happened?

He grabbed my ass through my jeans as I was walking by and meeting him for the

first time, and I just said, ew, and walked away.

It was the cam models. The cam models started coming to these expos.

We were the ones that were working from the safety of our homes. We weren't on

set getting groped by directors. That shit wasn't normal to us. It was like

laughable to me that people could even think of it as something that you would

just excuse, excuse, and then give him access to more people to do it in the

future. So that's when I started compiling the evidence and made that

video.

There have been allegations of rape and sexual assault against Ron Jeremy that

go back as far as August 2003.

Here we have Ron Jeremy grabbing Tonya Tate's ass.

Here we have Ron Jeremy fondling the tit of a random female out in front of a

strip club.

How does Ron Jeremy, just being a porn star, give him the right to assault

females?

The woman happened to be sexual.

Why is that okay?

Are we really still slut -shaming women to the point where we take away their

basic human rights?

At what point did you realize, in addition to the groping, there were

allegations of rape?

There was someone who added allegations of rape to the Twitter thread.

He allegedly raped her, then, like, signed a napkin or a piece of paper and

it to her as an autograph.

And it's not the only person who's said that about him.

He's like a giant monster just going around, like, sexually assaulting

Classic me too, in the sense of being initiated on social media, on Twitter, a

kind of community forms, experiences are shared, and that leads to real world

change. Yeah, 100%. So it was like a domino effect of, like, one thing

that led to another thing happening, you know, which is what the...

the detectives and the prosecutors said got them interested in actually finally

bringing charges against him.

Ron Jeremy's alleged offenses span nearly 30 years.

For many younger performers, his ability to continue working for so long amid

widespread rumors of his offending illustrated a problem in the industry.

I wanted to meet one of those affected.

In 1997, aged 25, Jen Mondello had been attempting to find her way into an adult

film career under the name Jennifer Steele.

Ron Jeremy had offered to act as her mentor.

20 years on, with 100 films behind her, she has retired from porn and lives in

Florida. Hi, Jen. Hi, how are you?

OK. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too.

Come on in.

Oh, nice and cool in here. Yeah.

Can we look at some of your old memorabilia? I have a whole box.

How long were you in the industry?

About ten years.

Like, my movie span is about a ten -year span.

So, shall I start pulling stuff out?

Sure, yeah.

This is an 8x10 that I would sign for somebody, you know.

The turn lines are part of the look, right?

Oh, yeah.

I had my tanning bikini that gave the perfect line, so I had the same line

time. Makes it feel more taboo.

I guess so. I was young and I cared.

I wouldn't go that far now.

Am I right in saying you have a lot of happy memories?

Oh, yeah.

I have to say that my gangbang scenes were the most fun.

How many gangbangs did you do?

Somewhere between half a dozen and a dozen.

And typically how many people would it be? The most was 20, was the Mexican

gangbang.

Mexican gangbang? The Mexican anal gangbang.

You did that? Yeah, I did that.

It's not something I would enjoy now.

What was Mexican about it?

All the men were Mexican.

Here's a DVD.

Jennifer Steele does the Amsterdam 420.

What does that mean? We went to Amsterdam and we just picked out a bunch

random dudes at Cannabis Cup, brought them back to the hotel and fucked them.

They stuck a bong in my ass and then smoked pot out of it.

I thought you were with James Corden.

No, there's no James Corden here.

Should we talk about what happened?

Sure. Yeah.

When Jen had met Ron Jeremy, she was working as an exotic dancer in Oregon.

He invited her to Los Angeles, landing her a job as a model in a photo shoot he

was doing for Hustler magazine.

I went down to Los Angeles. He picked me up from the airport. He took me to the

Hustler studio.

In the Hustler studio, we got all ready for the picture and everything.

He kept shaking his dick in front of everybody, and he couldn't get it up.

Pressure on him to basically deliver solid wood.

Mm -hmm.

So you felt bad for him. I felt bad for him. He can't get it up. What's he going

to do?

And then he asked if I would bend over, you know, in front of him so he could

look and jack off and give him a visual fluff. And I'm like, oh, yeah, totally.

And this is something I would do. In the bathroom.

In the bathroom.

So I bent over for him so he could look. He put his hand on me, and I said, what

are you doing?

And then he said, I'm not doing anything.

And then he stuck his dick in me.

And that's, you know.

And I tried to push back, but by pushing back, I was pushing forward because I

had my face in a paper towel holder. There was nowhere for me to go.

And then I think once I started struggling, that's when, like, I mean,

said, it was only just a few seconds, you know.

He apologized, like, I'm so sorry, I'll never do that again.

And I felt safe enough to get into the car.

So are you okay to talk about what happened when you went back to his was

apartment or it was an apartment?

Yeah, I um I made the assumption that I was gonna have my own room or at least a

couch I was trying to be polite about it telling him that sex was not part of

the part of our deal And and he told me that that wasn't an issue. In fact, he

made me feel kind of silly even saying it, you know

His couch was all full like movies and stuff, like movies and magazines and

stuff like that.

And he said, you know, just give me like 20 minutes and I'll get this all

cleaned off for you. And I'm like, I'm not waiting. And I was exhausted.

So I just like I literally I went over to the corner of his mattress and I just

crashed it up against the wall. I'm wearing my jeans.

I'm wearing my tank top. I'm like I'm wearing my clothes.

So there was no, you know.

And then he turned on the light and he woke me up.

And he said, you're going to get interviewed a lot. And one of the things

I'm well known for is that I eat the best pussy in the business. And I want

women to say that when they're getting interviewed.

And I told him, I said, I'll say you killed it.

And he was like, no, no, no, I want to really do it. And he said, if you let me

do this, please.

I'm doing all this stuff for you and everything. I'm introducing you to all

these people. If you let me do this, I promise I will leave you alone.

And I'm thinking, well, he should leave me alone anyway, but I have a deal here.

So I ended up going for it, and I took my pants off. He went down on me.

I came.

And then after that, his pants were off.

He took his pants off during that somehow without me knowing.

And then he raped me.

He was raping me anally, and he stopped when I was crying and bleeding.

In your account, you have to say... I'm sorry.

My... all the... You okay? It's all, yeah, like, it's just all...

I don't think Ron Jeremy is a bad person, but at that

moment, there was a monster that was there, and that was... I knew that my

options were done. It was, like, there's only... so many no's you can give

before you just run out of no's. And when he gave me that look, that was when

froze. That was when I had that. That was when the switch flipped of humanity

just not what I think it is.

I mean, it's... He

knew

what he was doing.

And it didn't put you off getting into adult film, did it? Because basically

following year, you went into it. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Sort of with both feet. Oh, yeah. Balls in.

It made me feel like I was taking control of my own sexuality after it had

taken from me.

But it's about choice.

Yeah. Yeah, it's about choice.

Like, I don't leave a gangbang feeling like I've been traumatized.

as long as everything was consensual.

But if somebody's raping me and they're doing something without their consent,

then that's traumatizing.

How important is it to you that Ron Jeremy could get convicted?

I hope he does get convicted because I think, honestly, that for him to be in a

medical facility would be the best thing for him. I think separating him from

society is necessary.

But as far as my healing goes...

What has happened already with the system is what I needed.

And that was for the DA

to tell me that he believes my story and that it was rape and that I was raped

and that it mattered despite what I did for a living.

Jen's need to be believed spoke to a common feeling among sex workers that

accounts of abuse are less likely to be taken seriously than other people's,

simply because of what they do.

With Ron Jeremy now awaiting trial for multiple counts of rape, it seemed that

might be changing.

Back in L .A.

and I'd been thinking more about power imbalances in the industry and how young

performers might be influenced by older men to take part in sex they might not

be okay with in private and on set.

I had an appointment at a shoot by a female -run studio called Balessa that

said to be giving its stars more control.

Hi, Jackie?

Yeah. Louis.

Hi, Louis. Nice to meet you. May I come in? Yeah, come on in. Thank you.

The director went by the porn name Jackie St. James.

Hello, where do you need me?

In the middle of the bed, please.

The set -up for the scene drew on something that had really happened to

performers who'd been friends but had fallen out.

You're going to talk directly to me.

Directly to you? Yes.

They were Michael Vegas, whom I'd met poolside in Pasadena.

Slide over slightly.

And Bunny Colby.

What is... What is your history with Bunny Colby?

Well, we had done a scene together.

Everything went great.

And then we had a tumultuous interaction on the old social media.

You guys have never worked one -on -one? We have not. We've only done a boy

-boy, girl -girl -girl together.

Any expectations for how it will go when he walks through these doors?

Um, I think it'll be a little awkward at first, but I think it'll be fine.

I love giving and receiving oral sex. I really love giving it.

Excellent. I love communication like that.

So, what's going on in the culture somewhat is that there are new

about consent.

In the college campus setting, they developed a concept of enthusiastic

Like, consent on its own isn't enough. It has to be like an enthusiastic yes.

You're not kind of tolerating the sex. Now, clearly, in the porn world, that's

not always going to apply because it's a job, right?

You're not going to love every time you go out and have sex for work.

And so within that space, it feels as though there's a potential for bad sex

take place or sex which you don't even know if you're completely okay with.

The onus of responsibility lies on pretty much everyone that's involved,

including the girl, the guy, the producers, when the girl is hired, their

So everyone's communicating, it's going to be this long, this is what you're

going to be dealing with, are you comfortable with the performer you're

with? These are all things that should be taken care of prior to the arrival on

set. Let's say the performer signed off a scene and then it's just uncomfortable

and they're not enjoying it at all.

But they don't feel they can speak out.

I mean, what do you then do with that?

How we address that is, I guess, creating an environment where people

to do so.

But I think a lot of times you'll see performers just saying yes to

something they consented to. But maybe they're uncomfortable, maybe they're in

pain and just are gutting it out until the scene's done.

I think that one of the reasons, and it's one thing we always say at Bless

no matter what.

If you don't do this scene, we are still paying you.

Whereas a lot of studios hold it over the head of the person. Well, if you

finish the scene, you're not getting paid.

You guys have fun?

Oh, yes.

I really appreciate it. Nice job, guys. I wasn't allowed to talk to you before,

so apologies. I told them.

It seemed like I was being rude. Thank you. Nice to see you.

Gotta stay in the zone.

Yeah. Personally, it felt great for me. I got to very much enjoy your body.

Thank you. Your body language seemed like you enjoyed it. I did enjoy it. So,

it's a win in my book.

Sometimes it is more work.

And sometimes it is more enjoyable, but I would never do something that I didn't

at least have a good portion of enjoyment at.

Can you reflect on changes you've seen?

It's nice to see that there is a bit more acceptance of people speaking out

that there are more options that we have, even though they're not perfect.

But there is still a lot of places where you need to be your own advocate.

And remembering that.

I think it's very important.

I think, Bunny, you had an experience with someone in the industry.

There was just one situation at not even a shoot. It was like a party thing that

I got paid to go to.

And, you know, my big problem wasn't even what happened there.

I got assaulted, but it was fairly minor. Somebody groped me, which is

inappropriate. Don't do that.

My problem was how the people I reached out to afterwards reacted.

And that's really... Can we say that it was your agent?

Yes.

And that's somebody that you need to protect you. That's somebody you are

reaching out to to make sure that your work is safe. The real, I think, trauma

of the situation was being told that what happened to me didn't happen.

Like being gaslighted and told like, oh, that didn't happen to you. And even if

it did happen to you, who cares?

Like that's essentially what I was told.

That's not allowing people to be in a position in this industry where they're

able to advocate for themselves and able to make good choices about what they

want to do and feel fine at the end of the day coming away from it. And what

his name?

Derek Hay.

For the best part of a decade, Derek Hay was the most powerful agent in porn.

But along with his power came rumours that he was controlling and vindictive.

You've got a busy day here today, haven't you? What have you got going on?

I'm not sure how many shoots we're doing today, but there's the day schedule.

I'd met him on a visit to the industry in 2011.

Two scenes was boy -girl scenes and one was anal.

Yeah. Have you ever done anal before?

I actually, like in my real life, I really don't do much anal.

That would suggest maybe you don't enjoy it that much.

I'm not sure that I agree with your question.

I can think a lot of things that we don't do in our personal life that we do

work.

Seven years later, five performers he represented brought a legal case suing

get out of their contracts, alleging sexual misconduct by Derek.

They also said he'd steered them into doing illegal escorting work for a

called The Luxury Companion.

In many ways, Derek represented that old guard of industry power brokers I'd

been hearing about.

Derek lives in Las Vegas.

He'd agreed to speak, asking that we meet at a tattoo parlor he owns in the

city.

Hello, hello.

Hello. Can I come in?

How are you doing?

Good. You must be Jamie.

I am Jamie, nice to meet you. Louis, nice to meet you.

Hi. Derek.

You've kindly arranged for Jamie to be here. Jamie, you're relatively new to

business, would you say?

Yeah, about April.

By eight months? Eight months of shooting, yeah.

So tell me how you relate to Derek. He's your agent?

He's my agent, yeah. I'm really grateful to Derek for immediately making me feel

like a respected worker, which is what every performer can ask for.

You probably would have noticed that Derek had some legal situations he was

dealing with.

I was familiar with the, you know...

you know, legal trouble around this agency, but so much of what you read

porn is stigmatized or sensationalized. I just thought I could be a better judge

myself. So one of the things you've been dealing with is a labor commission, and

it found against you, correct? That was last year.

Not completely true, no.

In part, they found against me, yeah.

But that's appealed to superior court. You've appealed, you've made an appeal.

Does that, and they've, they have not renewed your license in L .A., is that

right?

That's another subject that's being contested. As it stands, could we say

that right now?

Right now, do you have a license to be an agent in L .A.? I have a license in

Nevada and in Florida.

So does that put a crimp in your ability to represent young talent like Jamie?

No, because I'm still a licensed agent. Actually, I don't think there's any

agent who's ever held licenses in three states.

So this is a little bit private, maybe intrusive, but I'll just try it out.

Put it out there. Okay.

So are you and Derek in any way involved?

No. We have a wonderful professional relationship.

has a form in dating clients' models he represents, correct,

Derek? I've dated a number of models in the past, but you won't find any

recently. No. Have you stopped doing that?

For many years, yes.

OK. Jamie, if it's all right with you, I might have a sit -down with Derek now.

Is that OK?

Yes, thank you.

If I can just pause for two minutes. This is an artist that's going to do a

tattoo. Let me just see if she wants to come in and get set up. Okay.

The five models suing Derek painted a picture of a company where Derek

performers into sex.

Two also alleged he'd assaulted them.

Among the women were three whose porn names were Hadley Biscara, Sophie Ryan

Shea Evans.

Derek has always denied any wrongdoing.

The customer's not coming till 12. Great.

The most serious stuff, a lot of it is around the idea of inappropriate sexual

relationships between you and artists that you represented, in which they felt

they were either required or coerced, or in a couple of cases, assaulted.

Shea Evans says that you said, if you sleep with me, if you agree to a

relationship, I will make you a star.

Well, I have to correct you on that. I don't think Shea Evans has said that.

I've got the quote, the Shea Evans quote on my phone. Would that be helpful if I

gave you the exact quote?

I don't mind.

Okay.

Derek asked me if I wanted to come back to his hotel room, and he asked me a few

times, and then I agreed, and then in the car ride over there, he kept telling

me how I would get a lot of work and that he'd make me a star.

When he refused, this is the trip to Hawaii, he alleged that all porn work...

began to dry up for her on her return home.

And she was given a shoot with Pierre Woodman as a punishment. Even though she

rang Derek crying hysterically before the shoot, he insisted she could not

cancel.

Really? No woman in the adult film industry is coerced to do any particular

shoot.

What's your position on the idea that you sexually assaulted a couple of

your models?

I did have sex with one of those women on multiple occasions because we were

dating.

So... Sophie Ryan.

Correct. Out of dozens of times that we were intimate, the allegation is that

one of those times was coercive.

Her version sounded dreadful, right? I mean, it wasn't like, oh, it was

ambiguous or... I mean, she describes it as you pulled over in a car where there

was no phone coverage, having kind of finagled her into the car and...

Said if you don't give me a handjob, I'm gonna leave you here to die Right But

she was happy to come and spend the night with me just a couple of nights

Do

anything more you wanted to say about that no I need to pause I've got to let

this talk. Okay do it in

Do you want to set up over here?

Right.

What do you... Give me one second.

Can you give me five minutes?

OK, thanks.

Because it's one of the more serious allegations we should deal with, Hadley

Biscara claimed that she was sexually assaulted by you.

She says...

Twice, on two occasions, and... On two occasions, two days apart.

Four days apart.

No.

We'll agree to disagree.

All right.

One was a coerced blowjob, I guess, and the second was, I

guess, a more full -on assault in which she said she was very drunk.

Yeah, she made a police report on that seven months after the fact, and Las

Vegas police...

made some investigation on that and then declined to pursue the case further.

What's your position on what happened?

Both of those occasions was entirely consensual sex

between us.

She's a lesbian?

She became a lesbian after the fact.

Since then, not at the time.

So she says.

So, I guess the crowning allegation is the idea that you made introductions to

an escort agency and they began doing, I guess, illegal sex work as a result of

that. He knowingly attempted to help procure employment for petitioners with

luxury companion, an escort service, and helped book employment for Vizcarra,

helped broker a relationship with Sophie Ryan and Shea Evans so they could work.

As a prestige tattoo and blade.

Oh yeah, she's here.

No, no, you can come in. Where are you?

Please come in.

Okay, please come in.

Please come in. Thank you.

Did you get the last bit?

Yeah.

I think I did anyway. Helped book employment for Vizcara.

Helped broker a relationship with Sophie Ryan.

Shay Evans, Andy Rye, so they could work as escorts.

Come in.

We could get just some sort of a response.

Okay, let me try one more time. Okay, I actually would prefer you not read that

again now.

Okay.

Did you get any sort of referral fee or finder's fee or introduction fee for

steering your models to the luxury companion?

I didn't steer our models to the luxury companion in the first place.

Got no referral fee and no percentage of their earnings at all.

I feel like we've taken up a lot of your time.

Are you okay?

Yes, I'm fine, thank you.

So...

The big picture, I suppose, is the feeling that artists would enter

relationships with you, sexual relationships, and if you were unhappy

how they ended or the way that they ended, you'd intentionally destroy their

careers. That's the allegation that was made.

I contend that none of that is true.

Certainly the women have...

come up with a narrative and script that is unbelievably similar.

In some cases, they're alleging near criminal conduct.

So I look forward to our day or days in court in May of next year.

With all its interruptions, it had ended up being a slightly frustrating

interview, and I wondered if it said something about Derek's personality.

A steely quality of control.

As it stands, Derek is appealing the Labour Commission ruling that upheld the

sexual assault allegations against him.

He also awaits a criminal trial on charges related to the escorting

that could result in prison time.

One of the names that came up often in Derek's Labour Commission hearing was

Pierre Woodman.

Two of Derek's performers said they'd expressed concerns about working with

Pierre, and a third, named Andy Rye, said afterwards that aspects of the

had not been consensual.

Another performer who worked with Pierre in 2016 in a deal brokered by

Derek... went by the porn name Serenity Hayes, which she has since changed.

Why did you decide to come to porn?

I want to be in magazines and movies and stuff like that.

More like exhibitionism stuff?

Yeah.

In a way, your worst case scenario for you is, well, one of the cases where a

woman accused you of rape was Serenity Hayes, right?

When was your first blowjob?

Oh, in porn?

No, no, no, no, no, no. In your life, in your life. In January?

In porn?

No. I don't suck dick in real life.

Never? No.

If I'm not getting paid for it, I'm not doing it.

You never have sucked anyone?

No. It comes across that sex in general gives the impression of not enjoying.

You let him come in your mouth? No. You make a try?

No.

Why not?

Because I said no.

No, no.

Why don't we try to just do a test for the anal sex?

My win -win is like this. Maybe if I can put it inside your butt.

Today or never, you know what I mean? There is a technique which is based on

Chinese secret.

It is with the clitoris and with your heart.

During the scene she just is visibly uncomfortable and she's becoming

increasingly annoyed.

Afterwards,

Serenity Hayes took to Twitter complaining that she hadn't been paid

scene and accusing Pierre of serious sexual assault.

In return, Pierre released this behind the scenes footage of the incident.

What I saw was you attempting to negotiate with her and she experienced

a kind of abuse, right? I could see a case how that is a result of your

practices colliding with her needs.

Does that make sense?

Does it make sense if in five minutes I go...

to internet and I write, oh my God, today Luis was here and I feel so bad

because he harassed me with this question, coming back, coming back all

that I'm a bad guy, I'm a rapist and everything.

My God, now I have trouble and I need to go maybe for one week out of my work

because my head is broken and I feel so bad now with all this crazy discussion

and this pressure he put on me. I don't know if I can continue.

Come on.

What you will think? He will smile.

If I speak just about money part, I lost money because I lost my morning or my

afternoon of job.

Number two, if I said, oh, I send this back home, then she will have right on

internet that I am a motherfucker because I didn't give her the job. I

tried to make this girl feel good. She was a stupid idiot.

Things didn't go well.

I didn't push. I let her go home and that's it. Do you accept the

characterization of you that you use high pressure tactics?

Okay,

what is the high pressure tactic?

Tell me something concrete.

Well, you use the example of having sex with a woman on camera and then

during the sex act saying, why don't we do a DP? One in the front, one in the

back. the more accepted practice would be to decide all of that beforehand.

Why?

Well, so that you're not moving the goalposts. No, but Luis, who said that?

Well, all the performers that I've spoken to.

They say that before you start, and it's not in the middle of the text, you

don't say, oh, you know what, I'm going to come inside you, even though that's

not what you've agreed.

Stop, it's not true.

I am a guy who discusses with the girls and decides with the girls.

I understand that you want absolutely to show me like a bad person.

I don't know why, but it's probably a necessity for you.

It's easy to say bad things about everybody, you know?

So easy. I don't know you. I can just tomorrow or tonight when I will go home,

oh, today this British presenter came and, oh, I'm sure he's this or he's

Given everything that's going on, Me Too, Me Too specifically, there's more

questions asked, people...

Demand more clarity about what is being agreed to. Have you changed your

practices? Will you change your practices?

You want me to change something that I do since 30 years? Work.

I consider that if a girl is 18 years old, adult, and I speak to her, she

what she want to answer and she do what she want to do.

I don't put a gun on her head to take my dick in the mouth and the ass or the

pussy. She do whatever she want.

The encounter with Serenity Hayes and everything that went wrong with it

encapsulated the issue with Pierre's working practices.

But it was also symptomatic of a more pervasive tension in the adult industry,

world where the questionable behaviours that exist in all walks of life coincide

with a workplace involving extreme sex, and where an unjustified stigma has

meant that the voices of its workers haven't always been heard.

Booty to me a little bit more.

I was back with Mia Malkova in her castle.

Right there, perfect for you.

Can you open the knees a little bit?

Yeah.

Right there.

Right there, perfect.

It feels as though the industry's changing.

Yes, because I just think back to when I came into the industry and I was 19 and

I didn't know a lot and I was just very eager to please and not make a fuss.

I've honestly been in situations where the scenes have gotten more aggressive

than I would like, but I'm still wrapped up telling them yes more. And I think a

big part of it is you're just eager to please everybody on set. And once the

camera starts, it's really, really hard. You have to be brave to muster up that

courage to say, stop, no, I don't like that.

But now we have these large followings. So with that comes a lot of power.

It's hard to ignore us anymore, especially when everyone's saying the

thing. It's just empowering.