1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,000 All right. 2 00:00:01,660 --> 00:00:05,520 So we are going to film the consent talk. All right. 3 00:00:06,660 --> 00:00:10,500 Spanking. Do you feel OK with spanking? OK, so we'll try to stick with some, 4 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:12,180 like, medium spanking, if that's OK. 5 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:14,780 Head to toe, do you mind your hair being touched? 6 00:00:15,140 --> 00:00:16,260 That's totally fine. Totally okay? 7 00:00:16,500 --> 00:00:17,640 I'm cool with that, yeah. Totally okay, great. 8 00:00:18,180 --> 00:00:21,760 Chest, back, arms, do you mind being touched? That's totally cool. Okay, 9 00:00:22,220 --> 00:00:26,700 I'm going to keep the same safe words. I'm going to use mercy or yellow and red 10 00:00:26,700 --> 00:00:29,460 or stop and cut. Look into the camera if I need to. 11 00:00:29,820 --> 00:00:30,820 Okay, we got it. 12 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:37,900 In Los Angeles, I was traversing a battleground over consent. 13 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:40,400 One of the... 14 00:00:40,700 --> 00:00:44,200 Criticisms that's been made of you is that you can be pushy. 15 00:00:44,620 --> 00:00:51,620 The vast and lucrative industry of adult film has been transformed 16 00:00:51,620 --> 00:00:56,760 by social media with a new generation of performers making fortunes on their own 17 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:01,440 online and using their new power to call out alleged predatory behavior. 18 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:07,140 I called him. He said everything was fine. You know, I'm Ron Jeremy and 19 00:01:07,140 --> 00:01:08,140 safe with me. 20 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:12,780 while an old guard is pushing back at what they see as trial by Twitter. The 21 00:01:12,780 --> 00:01:19,060 women have come up with a narrative and script that is unbelievably similar. 22 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,040 I was attempting to figure out what good practice looked like. 23 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,480 Are you flirting with me? 24 00:01:26,180 --> 00:01:28,600 I'm your step -sister. That's wrong. 25 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:34,280 In a world dedicated to pushing boundaries of taste and taboo. 26 00:01:34,660 --> 00:01:37,140 He allegedly raped her, then, like... 27 00:01:37,420 --> 00:01:40,640 signed a napkin or a piece of paper and gave it to her as an autograph. 28 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:04,760 In a $4 million castle outside Portland, one of the biggest names in porn was 29 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:05,760 about to do a shoot. 30 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:07,219 Wait, say where? 31 00:02:07,220 --> 00:02:13,040 I think Agent Provocateur is going to be best. Maybe something red or white 32 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:14,740 would be good. What about this one? This one's new. 33 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:17,240 That one works. Okay. 34 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:22,560 A performer with 10 years in the business, these days Mia Malkova works 35 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:27,920 exclusively from home, shooting with her boyfriend Justin and uploading daily to 36 00:02:27,920 --> 00:02:28,940 social media sites. 37 00:02:30,340 --> 00:02:33,180 Okay, perfect, right there. Will you turn your booty towards the light a 38 00:02:33,180 --> 00:02:34,159 bit more? 39 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:35,160 Right there, freeze. 40 00:02:35,700 --> 00:02:36,700 Eyes to me. 41 00:02:37,820 --> 00:02:38,820 Right there, perfect. 42 00:02:39,020 --> 00:02:41,120 So how many subscribers do you have on Instagram? 43 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,500 Um, 9 .4 million. 44 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:46,320 And what about OnlyFans? 45 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:52,220 Um, I think I might have 40, 40 ,000 right now. 46 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:56,500 Which sounds like much less, but they're all paying is the big difference, 47 00:02:56,700 --> 00:02:58,620 right? That is the big difference, yeah. 48 00:02:59,180 --> 00:03:00,280 Three, two, one. 49 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:04,280 Okay, sweet. 50 00:03:08,739 --> 00:03:13,720 Would you be comfortable giving me a rough idea of how much you are making 51 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:15,100 through OnlyFans? 52 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:16,400 Yeah. 53 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,940 150 to 250, depending on the month. 54 00:03:22,940 --> 00:03:25,600 150 ,000 to 250 ,000? 55 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,680 Yeah. Wow. I love OnlyFans. I didn't make that while I was shooting for 56 00:03:30,330 --> 00:03:35,270 And I'm in complete control of everything. I do it from home. I do what 57 00:03:35,270 --> 00:03:36,270 how I like. 58 00:03:36,910 --> 00:03:39,270 It's a better quality of living. 59 00:03:42,690 --> 00:03:43,750 All right, action. 60 00:03:44,710 --> 00:03:48,070 Mia is at the top of a new economy of adult film. 61 00:03:48,330 --> 00:03:49,630 You walk forward towards the chair. 62 00:03:50,450 --> 00:03:55,130 One of the most successful of thousands of young performers using social media 63 00:03:55,130 --> 00:03:58,250 who've transformed the industry almost beyond recognition. 64 00:03:59,920 --> 00:04:01,780 Is that who I want? Right there? Perfect. 65 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:08,700 Able to make money on their own terms, many have used their new power to police 66 00:04:08,700 --> 00:04:12,600 the industry and establish better standards for how sex takes place. 67 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:19,200 In Pasadena, north of Los Angeles, I had an appointment with a couple who work 68 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:20,600 in porn. Can we come in? 69 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:26,640 Named Michael Vegas and Susie Q, they are two of the new generation of porn 70 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:27,640 activists. 71 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,640 They were shooting content for their social media accounts with their 72 00:04:32,820 --> 00:04:34,780 Honey Milk and Lola Faye. 73 00:04:37,060 --> 00:04:41,140 Do you want to do some pulling some things to the side? 74 00:04:42,740 --> 00:04:44,600 Wait, like my holes? 75 00:04:44,820 --> 00:04:45,920 Yeah, they can't see it, but I can. 76 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,620 Holes doesn't sound very romantic, Michael. 77 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:52,600 No. 78 00:04:54,220 --> 00:04:57,440 It's the romance hole, Louie. If you put romance in front of it. 79 00:04:58,010 --> 00:04:59,010 That comes much better. 80 00:05:00,810 --> 00:05:07,270 Today, for our scene, we are doing a foursome, and we are making it fit with 81 00:05:07,270 --> 00:05:11,490 of our social media platforms, and so there's going to be some pegging, and 82 00:05:11,490 --> 00:05:16,470 there's going to be... Pegging is? Pegging is like a strapped -on dildo and 83 00:05:16,470 --> 00:05:18,990 harness for penetration. 84 00:05:19,530 --> 00:05:24,430 Someone will be pegging me, hopefully, if all is going according to plan. And 85 00:05:24,430 --> 00:05:27,730 you like being pegged, don't you? Oh, I love it so much. 86 00:05:28,410 --> 00:05:34,490 Gosh, you can ask any... You can ask anybody in the business. I love it so 87 00:05:34,690 --> 00:05:38,010 It just really... Just the right spot. 88 00:05:38,310 --> 00:05:39,730 It's the best way I can put it. 89 00:05:40,490 --> 00:05:41,490 One, two, three. 90 00:05:41,610 --> 00:05:42,610 One, two, three. 91 00:05:42,950 --> 00:05:47,470 What's it like? Is it weirdly empowering or just it is what it is? It's great to 92 00:05:47,470 --> 00:05:53,190 walk into an encounter that, like, where you know you're not the one being 93 00:05:53,190 --> 00:05:56,150 penetrated. Yeah. But why would that be great? 94 00:05:56,410 --> 00:05:57,209 I mean... 95 00:05:57,210 --> 00:05:58,550 What do you usually do during sex? 96 00:05:59,290 --> 00:06:00,790 Do you penetrate or are you penetrating? 97 00:06:01,670 --> 00:06:07,630 Most of the time... Yeah, if I get lucky, I'm the one penetrating. Okay, 98 00:06:07,750 --> 00:06:11,270 So you can imagine that flipping that and doing something different would feel 99 00:06:11,270 --> 00:06:13,850 different, right? Would feel very different, for sure. Yeah, that's all. 100 00:06:14,670 --> 00:06:16,290 Is one of these Michael's? 101 00:06:16,510 --> 00:06:17,489 This one. 102 00:06:17,490 --> 00:06:20,830 That's not real size, though. It's scaled up. Scaled up, yeah. 103 00:06:31,370 --> 00:06:36,390 I was curious to speak to Michael and Susie about the changes going on in the 104 00:06:36,390 --> 00:06:37,390 industry. 105 00:06:40,710 --> 00:06:47,210 With the pegging successfully concluded and everyone more relaxed, there was a 106 00:06:47,210 --> 00:06:48,210 moment to talk. 107 00:06:49,010 --> 00:06:50,830 Wow. How was it? 108 00:06:51,590 --> 00:06:54,610 Outstanding. The scene went very fluid and smooth. 109 00:06:54,990 --> 00:06:55,869 No surprises? 110 00:06:55,870 --> 00:06:58,090 Yeah, I feel like it went surprisingly good. 111 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:03,640 Now with social media platforms, performers have the ability to call out 112 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:05,700 experiences and go public. 113 00:07:05,940 --> 00:07:08,640 And I just wondered if you had any observations about that. 114 00:07:09,299 --> 00:07:14,620 historically as sex workers we haven't had any way to report violence or 115 00:07:14,620 --> 00:07:20,400 problems against us there's no way to stay safe as a sex worker so yelling out 116 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:26,000 loud in a crowd which is social media is the only means of like trying to keep 117 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:31,660 your friends safe from predators and a performer who felt violated in some way 118 00:07:31,660 --> 00:07:33,800 would be going to the police and maybe saying 119 00:07:34,540 --> 00:07:40,900 i expected to do vaginal but anal happened or a male hand came from behind 120 00:07:40,900 --> 00:07:45,200 camera and pinched my bum and the police might say well these are academic 121 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,640 distinctions right like what is what is the big deal i consented to something 122 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:54,020 and then something else happened that was without my consent i don't know why 123 00:07:54,020 --> 00:07:58,560 that's hard to understand you know like no matter what the situation michael and 124 00:07:58,560 --> 00:07:59,560 i met on a 125 00:07:59,969 --> 00:08:04,590 hardcore gangbang set but you know you'll go for a time and then you'll 126 00:08:04,590 --> 00:08:09,010 it's not faux pas to be like hey is your knee okay yeah you want to change 127 00:08:09,010 --> 00:08:13,030 positions and so there really there really is a true conversation that's 128 00:08:13,030 --> 00:08:16,130 happening with your scene partner and like that is consent all the way through 129 00:08:16,130 --> 00:08:20,410 so how would how would you characterize what's going on right now is this a live 130 00:08:20,410 --> 00:08:22,110 issue some of the top 131 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:27,540 like names in the industry, some of the top earners in the industry are in a 132 00:08:27,540 --> 00:08:33,679 position where they will only shoot for the right partner and the right amount 133 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,980 of money and the right sort of like convenience to their day. You know, it's 134 00:08:36,980 --> 00:08:41,039 really... Why? Because they have the leverage now through their own platform 135 00:08:41,039 --> 00:08:43,840 say no. Exactly. They have the leverage to say no. 136 00:08:44,059 --> 00:08:46,020 Is there a battle within the industry? 137 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:47,880 Like, how is it taking place? 138 00:08:48,590 --> 00:08:53,370 Some of these old dudes that were here to be creeps are frustrated and leave. 139 00:08:53,670 --> 00:08:57,950 They can't. I can't work like this. I might hurt somebody's feelings or I 140 00:08:57,950 --> 00:09:01,030 assault them. Like, yeah, you probably will. You shouldn't be here. Go away. 141 00:09:01,110 --> 00:09:04,430 Thanks. Bye. It's a reckoning. Out with the old, in with the new. 142 00:09:04,630 --> 00:09:07,610 There will always be predators in any industry. 143 00:09:07,830 --> 00:09:13,190 But the more that we talk about things and the more that we weed them out, the 144 00:09:13,190 --> 00:09:14,830 more scared that they are, honestly. 145 00:09:21,130 --> 00:09:26,890 The shift taking place within porn reflects changes in the wider culture, 146 00:09:26,890 --> 00:09:31,830 younger generation pushing for clearer conversations about consent and an old 147 00:09:31,830 --> 00:09:34,270 guard standing accused of harbouring predators. 148 00:09:35,110 --> 00:09:36,890 Have you done already some blowjob? 149 00:09:37,150 --> 00:09:39,650 Yes, I do blowjob all the time. 150 00:09:39,850 --> 00:09:44,410 One of those under suspicion is a 58 -year -old director and performer who 151 00:09:44,410 --> 00:09:46,530 by the porn name Pierre Woodman. 152 00:09:46,890 --> 00:09:48,070 Have you been tied up? 153 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,820 Pierre's scenes are known for being on the more extreme end. 154 00:09:57,500 --> 00:10:01,260 On several occasions, he's been accused of violating performance boundaries, 155 00:10:01,660 --> 00:10:03,840 accusations he denies. 156 00:10:05,540 --> 00:10:10,580 Though he often works with American talent, Pierre is based 6 ,000 miles 157 00:10:10,580 --> 00:10:11,900 .A. in Budapest. 158 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,260 He was shooting at a hotel. 159 00:10:15,180 --> 00:10:16,180 Hello. 160 00:10:16,620 --> 00:10:17,900 You must be Pierre. 161 00:10:18,100 --> 00:10:19,320 Hello. How do you do? 162 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:21,260 Good. Nice to meet you. What's your name? 163 00:10:21,500 --> 00:10:23,360 Alberto. Alberto, nice to meet you. 164 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:24,760 Louis. 165 00:10:24,980 --> 00:10:26,380 Xerezade. Nice to meet you. 166 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:28,560 Xerezade. Do you speak English? 167 00:10:29,140 --> 00:10:30,140 A little bit. 168 00:10:30,340 --> 00:10:31,480 A little bit. A little bit. 169 00:10:31,700 --> 00:10:36,080 When girls like Xerezade come from Spain, doesn't speak English, I come to 170 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,900 translate. So you're the director? Mm -hmm. And you'll be doing the shooting 171 00:10:39,900 --> 00:10:41,120 well? Yes. And performing? 172 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:43,320 Unfortunately, yes. 173 00:10:43,500 --> 00:10:44,500 Yes. 174 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:53,260 A ver, aquí me pones nombre de artistas, stage name. 175 00:10:54,660 --> 00:10:55,660 Scheherazade. 176 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:57,880 Scheherazade. How old are you? 177 00:10:58,360 --> 00:10:59,980 ¿Qué años tengo? 25. 178 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:01,400 25. 179 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,520 And how many scenes have you done so far? 180 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:07,560 Three. Just three. 181 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:11,600 A ver, Sara, siéntate aquí tranquilamente. 182 00:11:13,380 --> 00:11:15,360 Ahora solamente una video para la parte legal. 183 00:11:16,140 --> 00:11:18,260 Am I right in thinking you videotape everything? 184 00:11:18,620 --> 00:11:19,599 Everything. I have a new now. 185 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:21,380 So where are you? Have you got cameras going? 186 00:11:21,700 --> 00:11:22,700 Yes. Where? 187 00:11:23,500 --> 00:11:26,220 Hidden? Yeah, of course. It's your idea. Everything is recorded. 188 00:11:26,460 --> 00:11:28,340 Really? That's making you smile. 189 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:33,960 Sorry. I tell the truth. 190 00:11:34,670 --> 00:11:39,030 Things saved me many, many, many times. Some girl accused me some things that I 191 00:11:39,030 --> 00:11:41,850 never did. Like, oh, I didn't want to do this. 192 00:11:42,290 --> 00:11:48,690 Last time I had a British girl who said that she was slapped against her will. 193 00:11:49,230 --> 00:11:54,230 Or one girl said, oh, he didn't pay me. Or he did something I didn't want to do. 194 00:11:54,450 --> 00:11:55,450 Or blah, blah, blah. 195 00:11:55,910 --> 00:11:58,070 Come on. And the big problem now is the Me Too. 196 00:11:58,770 --> 00:12:02,110 Since there is this scandal with Harvey Weinstein, the Me Too, and all this 197 00:12:02,110 --> 00:12:03,110 wave. 198 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,620 Many girls think, wow, time for me to get money. 199 00:12:07,100 --> 00:12:13,380 What would be the motive for a woman to accuse you of 200 00:12:13,380 --> 00:12:17,720 deceiving her or doing something against her will? 201 00:12:19,220 --> 00:12:23,400 You ask me this question? Because they want to be successful performers, right? 202 00:12:23,500 --> 00:12:24,940 And they want to go on and work again. 203 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,500 So in a way, there's a risk for them, which is... 204 00:12:28,830 --> 00:12:33,790 If you make a false claim, then you're going to probably be blacklisted, right? 205 00:12:34,130 --> 00:12:37,030 Most of the time when the girls make complaints, it's already when they're 206 00:12:37,030 --> 00:12:38,650 finished with this job. 207 00:12:39,290 --> 00:12:43,590 Some girls who today are 30 years old or 40 years old and they work 20 years 208 00:12:43,590 --> 00:12:47,830 ago, those girls, because they have a simple life or problem with their 209 00:12:47,830 --> 00:12:52,390 boyfriend or whatever, and they are in need of money, they try to use the MeToo 210 00:12:52,390 --> 00:12:56,070 as a way to get money from people. This is one situation. 211 00:12:57,110 --> 00:12:58,390 So, petite lady. 212 00:12:58,870 --> 00:12:59,870 My God. 213 00:13:00,010 --> 00:13:01,370 Has she already tried anal sex? 214 00:13:03,230 --> 00:13:04,230 No, nunca. 215 00:13:04,470 --> 00:13:05,490 She's okay to try today? 216 00:13:06,530 --> 00:13:07,530 Sí. 217 00:13:07,810 --> 00:13:08,810 Okay. 218 00:13:09,590 --> 00:13:12,790 It's quite a big step to do anal for the first time. 219 00:13:13,070 --> 00:13:16,730 Un poco, pero él es una persona que te hace estar a gusto, cómoda. 220 00:13:17,850 --> 00:13:22,450 This is why, for me, I prefer a girl like her who never tried, because in her 221 00:13:22,450 --> 00:13:23,910 brain she don't have any trauma. 222 00:13:24,710 --> 00:13:25,710 Trauma. 223 00:13:26,030 --> 00:13:29,590 She has anxiety, of course, but she doesn't have any personal trauma about 224 00:13:29,630 --> 00:13:30,509 so it's perfect. 225 00:13:30,510 --> 00:13:31,510 For me, she's the best. 226 00:13:31,610 --> 00:13:37,510 Could we say you specialize in performing with young women who are 227 00:13:37,510 --> 00:13:38,510 for the first time? 228 00:13:38,690 --> 00:13:45,310 Yeah, my specificity is to do anal sex, because I have a secret. 229 00:13:45,530 --> 00:13:50,110 My grandfather teach me one secret for that. 230 00:13:50,560 --> 00:13:53,640 when I was very young. Your grandfather taught you? Yes, yes, yes. 231 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:57,560 And also because I don't have a penis like this, it helps a lot, because also 232 00:13:57,560 --> 00:13:58,580 the size is important. 233 00:13:59,100 --> 00:14:00,860 You have a relatively small penis? 234 00:14:01,580 --> 00:14:02,580 17 centimeters. 235 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:03,640 I don't know if it's small. 236 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,480 Basically, when I was a young guy, I was thinking, oh, I don't have a huge 237 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:09,560 penis, but today, for me, it's an advantage. 238 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,780 All right, Charizard, can you please show me your body, if you don't mind? 239 00:14:19,050 --> 00:14:25,270 yeah oh my god she has a nice injury look at this and 240 00:14:25,270 --> 00:14:30,610 please if you don't mind turn around she feel good or she feel bad 241 00:14:30,610 --> 00:14:36,290 okay sit down please 242 00:14:36,290 --> 00:14:42,010 beautiful i 243 00:14:42,010 --> 00:14:45,370 love her face so much she's so beautiful 244 00:14:52,660 --> 00:14:57,980 It being her first anal scene, Scheherazade was receiving a higher than 245 00:14:57,980 --> 00:14:59,920 rate of 1500 euros. 246 00:15:02,020 --> 00:15:04,960 The shoot was happening in a suite three floors down. 247 00:15:05,500 --> 00:15:08,280 Before the action, there would be a quick orientation. 248 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,280 She avoids looking if there's a plane passing in the sky. 249 00:15:18,500 --> 00:15:22,040 You concentrate on the scene, don't look at the plane or the neighbor. 250 00:15:22,900 --> 00:15:26,660 You don't look at the roof, you're completely in the scene. 251 00:15:27,100 --> 00:15:28,100 Now. 252 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:30,280 The clacks, do you want them or not? 253 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,240 Do you get them or do you make them like in the movies? 254 00:15:33,660 --> 00:15:36,460 Like in the movies? A fake one. He gives them to you, you do this. 255 00:15:37,140 --> 00:15:41,360 No, if he gives me a weak one... He strangles you a bit. 256 00:15:47,100 --> 00:15:48,500 How are you with kissing? 257 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:58,940 If one girl don't want to kiss you, generally she turns away. So it's very 258 00:15:58,940 --> 00:16:01,780 to know if she wants or she don't want. Imagine you go somewhere and you don't 259 00:16:01,780 --> 00:16:02,539 want something. 260 00:16:02,540 --> 00:16:03,800 Like when you go to the restaurant. 261 00:16:04,420 --> 00:16:06,740 Me, I don't want onion in my plate. 262 00:16:07,020 --> 00:16:08,440 The first thing I say to the guy. 263 00:16:08,860 --> 00:16:11,780 When I go to McDonald's, I want an hamburger, but no onion. 264 00:16:12,540 --> 00:16:13,540 All right. 265 00:16:15,940 --> 00:16:18,240 Talk to you in a little bit, then. Thank you so much, guys. 266 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:19,840 Thank you. 267 00:16:19,980 --> 00:16:21,680 Bye. Thank you, Alberto. 268 00:16:21,900 --> 00:16:22,900 See you later. 269 00:16:23,820 --> 00:16:24,679 See you later. 270 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:25,680 See you later. 271 00:16:25,780 --> 00:16:26,780 See you later. Thank you. 272 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:34,900 Having retired upstairs as the scene took place, I was mainly conscious of 273 00:16:34,900 --> 00:16:36,420 Scheherazade might be feeling. 274 00:16:36,910 --> 00:16:42,850 having her first ever anal sex on camera with someone whose language she didn't 275 00:16:42,850 --> 00:16:46,290 speak and no one else around. 276 00:16:49,850 --> 00:16:52,150 Two hours later, they emerged. 277 00:16:53,930 --> 00:16:56,650 Oh, it's you who opened the door for us. 278 00:16:56,930 --> 00:16:58,390 Hello. Hello. 279 00:16:58,710 --> 00:17:00,330 I did not expect to see you here again. 280 00:17:01,150 --> 00:17:02,930 How are you? How was it? 281 00:17:03,910 --> 00:17:06,369 Ah, for me, good, but I don't know, it must have to her. 282 00:17:07,369 --> 00:17:11,609 I think 283 00:17:11,609 --> 00:17:18,829 she 284 00:17:18,829 --> 00:17:23,750 enjoyed a lot, but it was the beginning of the situation, it was tough for five 285 00:17:23,750 --> 00:17:25,950 minutes, and after, bam, everything goes well. 286 00:17:26,250 --> 00:17:27,450 She had hard times too. 287 00:17:27,730 --> 00:17:29,270 At the very beginning, hard times. 288 00:17:30,610 --> 00:17:32,350 She even thought, I'm not going to do it. 289 00:17:32,690 --> 00:17:34,250 I'm not going to be able to do it. Why? 290 00:17:35,530 --> 00:17:38,730 Because I never did it before. 291 00:17:39,430 --> 00:17:41,590 What was your reason for doing this today? 292 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:58,000 I'm in porn. I knew that Pierre would be the right person to start with this 293 00:17:58,000 --> 00:17:59,200 annual thing in the porn business. 294 00:18:00,220 --> 00:18:04,300 And your plan is to continue in porn for a number of years? 295 00:18:04,940 --> 00:18:06,780 Yes. For the moment, yes. 296 00:18:09,380 --> 00:18:10,760 Muchas gracias por todo. 297 00:18:11,020 --> 00:18:12,820 Hasta más tarde. 298 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:15,320 Vaya con Dios. 299 00:18:18,830 --> 00:18:23,390 You know, you've said that you specialize in having anal sex with 300 00:18:23,390 --> 00:18:24,770 performers for the first time. 301 00:18:24,990 --> 00:18:25,990 That's something. 302 00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:31,050 Can you see that, in a way, that's a high -risk project for you? Because, 303 00:18:31,190 --> 00:18:36,910 actually, by definition, they don't necessarily know what they're getting 304 00:18:37,110 --> 00:18:42,910 right? And also, you're very... If I propose right now to fuck your ass, you 305 00:18:42,910 --> 00:18:44,090 will not know what we speak about? 306 00:18:45,530 --> 00:18:46,509 Come on. 307 00:18:46,510 --> 00:18:50,050 Are you taking me like a stupid one? If I say, Louis, would you like me to fuck 308 00:18:50,050 --> 00:18:53,250 your ass now? You will say, oh, I'm sorry, I don't know what you are 309 00:18:53,250 --> 00:18:57,810 about. If you said to me, I'm going to fuck you in the ass, and I wouldn't know 310 00:18:57,810 --> 00:19:00,310 what that... But I wouldn't really know what that was like. 311 00:19:00,810 --> 00:19:03,270 OK. I know what the physical act is. Because you are not gay, you don't know 312 00:19:03,270 --> 00:19:04,670 what it is. OK, fine. And then? 313 00:19:06,190 --> 00:19:07,470 Will you say yes or not? 314 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:11,000 You know, it's just strange. 315 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:16,600 I'm a 51 -year -old man. I'm not an 18 -year -old girl. 316 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:21,480 If I was committed to trying to make it in porn, but I also hadn't really 317 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:26,700 thought through all the aspects of what that meant, and I thought I might dip a 318 00:19:26,700 --> 00:19:30,780 toe in it, but I also had come from an upbringing that was maybe conservative. 319 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,760 I mean, there's so many dimensions to it. You are 18 years old. You're 320 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,940 to be able to know what you do or what you don't do. 321 00:19:38,490 --> 00:19:45,310 In America, at 16 years old, you can drive a car, you can have a gun at 18, 322 00:19:45,310 --> 00:19:48,590 you need to be 21 to drink one beer. It's not me who does the law. 323 00:19:49,610 --> 00:19:53,430 What is wrong if I ask one girl, are you okay to get fucked in the ass by me? 324 00:19:53,450 --> 00:19:54,329 And she said, yes. 325 00:19:54,330 --> 00:19:56,350 I am a bad guy because she said yes. 326 00:19:56,690 --> 00:20:02,050 I'm supposed to have speak to her in a way that she said yes, but she finally, 327 00:20:02,190 --> 00:20:04,330 well, she didn't want really to do it, blah, blah, blah. 328 00:20:04,570 --> 00:20:05,610 It's not my concern. 329 00:20:06,110 --> 00:20:07,330 I'm here to do a job. 330 00:20:14,990 --> 00:20:20,070 With Pierre, I had the sense of someone on the defensive who felt himself under 331 00:20:20,070 --> 00:20:22,610 siege in a world where the rules were changing. 332 00:20:27,110 --> 00:20:31,670 I was curious to learn more about how the practices of the new generation of 333 00:20:31,670 --> 00:20:35,950 social media performers were intersecting with the old ways of the 334 00:20:40,050 --> 00:20:44,250 I had an appointment with a webcam model who goes by Ginger Bank. 335 00:20:45,250 --> 00:20:47,270 Ginger's been camming nearly 12 years. 336 00:20:47,570 --> 00:20:51,230 In her entire career, she's made only a handful of studio films. 337 00:20:51,610 --> 00:20:55,210 She makes her living almost exclusively from OnlyFans. 338 00:20:55,590 --> 00:20:56,710 Hi, Ginger. 339 00:20:57,490 --> 00:20:59,090 Hello. Louis, how do you do? 340 00:20:59,310 --> 00:21:02,110 Good, how are you? Good to meet you. Can we come in? Yeah, please, come in. 341 00:21:03,590 --> 00:21:06,670 The meeting began with some quick content creation. 342 00:21:07,790 --> 00:21:08,850 Oh, this looks cool. 343 00:21:09,570 --> 00:21:10,730 The light through it. 344 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:22,100 Tell me about what you do. 345 00:21:22,900 --> 00:21:26,880 OnlyFans is mostly what I do right now. I use it to show the behind the scenes 346 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:31,800 of my life, naked pictures and videos of myself. And there's also videos of me 347 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:36,120 having sex that I have, you know, created. I'll get naked and dance around 348 00:21:36,120 --> 00:21:37,120 play with myself. 349 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,220 That's my daily work. 350 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:47,440 And it goes up on OnlyFans and people can take out a subscription to see 351 00:21:47,740 --> 00:21:52,920 Content yeah, it's basically whatever you want to put behind this paywall, you 352 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:57,140 know You walk it behind this paywall and they pay however much you want per 353 00:21:57,140 --> 00:22:01,040 month It's like I think three dollars a month up three dollars a month up to 354 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,420 fifty dollars a month A lot of them just want to see an extra look into your 355 00:22:04,420 --> 00:22:11,420 life This video is with Chanel Santini she's a really popular trans 356 00:22:11,420 --> 00:22:12,420 performer 357 00:22:17,130 --> 00:22:22,050 I wanted to have sex with her outside of work, so why not do it on camera and 358 00:22:22,050 --> 00:22:26,790 get paid to do it? It looked like she might be choking you on her dick. 359 00:22:27,190 --> 00:22:30,590 Um, I don't know, maybe for a second or two. 360 00:22:34,390 --> 00:22:39,330 Of her thousands of videos, probably Ginger's best known is one she posted on 361 00:22:39,330 --> 00:22:45,250 Twitter in 2017, calling out porn's most famous male performer, Ron Jeremy. 362 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:50,080 So do you want to talk about how this first came onto your radar, the whole 363 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,860 Jeremy? It started with a personal encounter with him, didn't it? I thought 364 00:22:53,860 --> 00:23:00,080 he was just one of the multiple handsy people at the expo that I ran into. This 365 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:01,080 was 2016? 366 00:23:01,140 --> 00:23:02,460 Yeah. And what happened? 367 00:23:02,900 --> 00:23:07,920 He grabbed my ass through my jeans as I was walking by and meeting him for the 368 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,340 first time, and I just said, ew, and walked away. 369 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,960 It was the cam models. The cam models started coming to these expos. 370 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,340 We were the ones that were working from the safety of our homes. We weren't on 371 00:23:17,340 --> 00:23:21,380 set getting groped by directors. That shit wasn't normal to us. It was like 372 00:23:21,380 --> 00:23:24,960 laughable to me that people could even think of it as something that you would 373 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:29,740 just excuse, excuse, and then give him access to more people to do it in the 374 00:23:29,740 --> 00:23:33,420 future. So that's when I started compiling the evidence and made that 375 00:23:33,420 --> 00:23:34,420 video. 376 00:23:34,700 --> 00:23:39,380 There have been allegations of rape and sexual assault against Ron Jeremy that 377 00:23:39,380 --> 00:23:42,060 go back as far as August 2003. 378 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,920 Here we have Ron Jeremy grabbing Tonya Tate's ass. 379 00:23:46,340 --> 00:23:51,960 Here we have Ron Jeremy fondling the tit of a random female out in front of a 380 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:52,919 strip club. 381 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:58,420 How does Ron Jeremy, just being a porn star, give him the right to assault 382 00:23:58,420 --> 00:23:59,420 females? 383 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,100 The woman happened to be sexual. 384 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:02,319 Why is that okay? 385 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:06,800 Are we really still slut -shaming women to the point where we take away their 386 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:08,020 basic human rights? 387 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:14,340 At what point did you realize, in addition to the groping, there were 388 00:24:14,340 --> 00:24:16,280 allegations of rape? 389 00:24:16,540 --> 00:24:20,160 There was someone who added allegations of rape to the Twitter thread. 390 00:24:20,460 --> 00:24:25,400 He allegedly raped her, then, like, signed a napkin or a piece of paper and 391 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:26,400 it to her as an autograph. 392 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,200 And it's not the only person who's said that about him. 393 00:24:34,860 --> 00:24:38,760 He's like a giant monster just going around, like, sexually assaulting 394 00:24:38,980 --> 00:24:44,940 Classic me too, in the sense of being initiated on social media, on Twitter, a 395 00:24:44,940 --> 00:24:50,340 kind of community forms, experiences are shared, and that leads to real world 396 00:24:50,340 --> 00:24:55,260 change. Yeah, 100%. So it was like a domino effect of, like, one thing 397 00:24:55,260 --> 00:24:58,140 that led to another thing happening, you know, which is what the... 398 00:24:58,460 --> 00:25:02,940 the detectives and the prosecutors said got them interested in actually finally 399 00:25:02,940 --> 00:25:04,280 bringing charges against him. 400 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,360 Ron Jeremy's alleged offenses span nearly 30 years. 401 00:25:12,740 --> 00:25:17,580 For many younger performers, his ability to continue working for so long amid 402 00:25:17,580 --> 00:25:21,580 widespread rumors of his offending illustrated a problem in the industry. 403 00:25:25,260 --> 00:25:27,480 I wanted to meet one of those affected. 404 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:34,980 In 1997, aged 25, Jen Mondello had been attempting to find her way into an adult 405 00:25:34,980 --> 00:25:37,800 film career under the name Jennifer Steele. 406 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,980 Ron Jeremy had offered to act as her mentor. 407 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:47,880 20 years on, with 100 films behind her, she has retired from porn and lives in 408 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,240 Florida. Hi, Jen. Hi, how are you? 409 00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:53,660 OK. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too. 410 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:55,000 Come on in. 411 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,380 Oh, nice and cool in here. Yeah. 412 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,400 Can we look at some of your old memorabilia? I have a whole box. 413 00:26:01,700 --> 00:26:03,280 How long were you in the industry? 414 00:26:03,700 --> 00:26:04,760 About ten years. 415 00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:08,280 Like, my movie span is about a ten -year span. 416 00:26:08,620 --> 00:26:10,540 So, shall I start pulling stuff out? 417 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:11,519 Sure, yeah. 418 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,340 This is an 8x10 that I would sign for somebody, you know. 419 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:16,980 The turn lines are part of the look, right? 420 00:26:17,220 --> 00:26:18,220 Oh, yeah. 421 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,360 I had my tanning bikini that gave the perfect line, so I had the same line 422 00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:24,700 time. Makes it feel more taboo. 423 00:26:25,020 --> 00:26:27,860 I guess so. I was young and I cared. 424 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:30,500 I wouldn't go that far now. 425 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,160 Am I right in saying you have a lot of happy memories? 426 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:34,640 Oh, yeah. 427 00:26:34,700 --> 00:26:37,740 I have to say that my gangbang scenes were the most fun. 428 00:26:37,980 --> 00:26:39,580 How many gangbangs did you do? 429 00:26:40,620 --> 00:26:42,160 Somewhere between half a dozen and a dozen. 430 00:26:42,740 --> 00:26:46,920 And typically how many people would it be? The most was 20, was the Mexican 431 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:47,920 gangbang. 432 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:49,900 Mexican gangbang? The Mexican anal gangbang. 433 00:26:50,900 --> 00:26:52,400 You did that? Yeah, I did that. 434 00:26:54,620 --> 00:26:56,260 It's not something I would enjoy now. 435 00:26:56,460 --> 00:26:57,640 What was Mexican about it? 436 00:26:57,900 --> 00:27:00,040 All the men were Mexican. 437 00:27:01,340 --> 00:27:02,340 Here's a DVD. 438 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,000 Jennifer Steele does the Amsterdam 420. 439 00:27:06,580 --> 00:27:10,700 What does that mean? We went to Amsterdam and we just picked out a bunch 440 00:27:10,700 --> 00:27:13,880 random dudes at Cannabis Cup, brought them back to the hotel and fucked them. 441 00:27:14,740 --> 00:27:17,720 They stuck a bong in my ass and then smoked pot out of it. 442 00:27:18,020 --> 00:27:19,420 I thought you were with James Corden. 443 00:27:20,360 --> 00:27:22,560 No, there's no James Corden here. 444 00:27:37,580 --> 00:27:38,720 Should we talk about what happened? 445 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:40,080 Sure. Yeah. 446 00:27:40,260 --> 00:27:45,120 When Jen had met Ron Jeremy, she was working as an exotic dancer in Oregon. 447 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:50,260 He invited her to Los Angeles, landing her a job as a model in a photo shoot he 448 00:27:50,260 --> 00:27:51,520 was doing for Hustler magazine. 449 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:58,340 I went down to Los Angeles. He picked me up from the airport. He took me to the 450 00:27:58,340 --> 00:27:59,340 Hustler studio. 451 00:28:00,500 --> 00:28:03,580 In the Hustler studio, we got all ready for the picture and everything. 452 00:28:04,170 --> 00:28:06,850 He kept shaking his dick in front of everybody, and he couldn't get it up. 453 00:28:07,210 --> 00:28:10,690 Pressure on him to basically deliver solid wood. 454 00:28:10,890 --> 00:28:11,689 Mm -hmm. 455 00:28:11,690 --> 00:28:15,430 So you felt bad for him. I felt bad for him. He can't get it up. What's he going 456 00:28:15,430 --> 00:28:16,149 to do? 457 00:28:16,150 --> 00:28:19,330 And then he asked if I would bend over, you know, in front of him so he could 458 00:28:19,330 --> 00:28:22,630 look and jack off and give him a visual fluff. And I'm like, oh, yeah, totally. 459 00:28:22,850 --> 00:28:25,130 And this is something I would do. In the bathroom. 460 00:28:25,490 --> 00:28:26,490 In the bathroom. 461 00:28:26,750 --> 00:28:32,030 So I bent over for him so he could look. He put his hand on me, and I said, what 462 00:28:32,030 --> 00:28:33,030 are you doing? 463 00:28:33,060 --> 00:28:34,640 And then he said, I'm not doing anything. 464 00:28:34,980 --> 00:28:36,360 And then he stuck his dick in me. 465 00:28:37,380 --> 00:28:38,420 And that's, you know. 466 00:28:39,740 --> 00:28:44,980 And I tried to push back, but by pushing back, I was pushing forward because I 467 00:28:44,980 --> 00:28:48,020 had my face in a paper towel holder. There was nowhere for me to go. 468 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:53,900 And then I think once I started struggling, that's when, like, I mean, 469 00:28:53,900 --> 00:28:55,880 said, it was only just a few seconds, you know. 470 00:28:56,100 --> 00:28:58,560 He apologized, like, I'm so sorry, I'll never do that again. 471 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,380 And I felt safe enough to get into the car. 472 00:29:02,330 --> 00:29:06,290 So are you okay to talk about what happened when you went back to his was 473 00:29:06,290 --> 00:29:07,870 apartment or it was an apartment? 474 00:29:08,730 --> 00:29:13,190 Yeah, I um I made the assumption that I was gonna have my own room or at least a 475 00:29:13,190 --> 00:29:17,750 couch I was trying to be polite about it telling him that sex was not part of 476 00:29:17,750 --> 00:29:23,630 the part of our deal And and he told me that that wasn't an issue. In fact, he 477 00:29:23,630 --> 00:29:25,890 made me feel kind of silly even saying it, you know 478 00:29:26,660 --> 00:29:30,500 His couch was all full like movies and stuff, like movies and magazines and 479 00:29:30,500 --> 00:29:31,500 stuff like that. 480 00:29:31,580 --> 00:29:34,680 And he said, you know, just give me like 20 minutes and I'll get this all 481 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,440 cleaned off for you. And I'm like, I'm not waiting. And I was exhausted. 482 00:29:38,780 --> 00:29:42,380 So I just like I literally I went over to the corner of his mattress and I just 483 00:29:42,380 --> 00:29:44,800 crashed it up against the wall. I'm wearing my jeans. 484 00:29:45,060 --> 00:29:47,380 I'm wearing my tank top. I'm like I'm wearing my clothes. 485 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:49,400 So there was no, you know. 486 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:51,760 And then he turned on the light and he woke me up. 487 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:56,340 And he said, you're going to get interviewed a lot. And one of the things 488 00:29:56,340 --> 00:30:01,460 I'm well known for is that I eat the best pussy in the business. And I want 489 00:30:01,460 --> 00:30:03,280 women to say that when they're getting interviewed. 490 00:30:03,620 --> 00:30:09,000 And I told him, I said, I'll say you killed it. 491 00:30:09,300 --> 00:30:14,700 And he was like, no, no, no, I want to really do it. And he said, if you let me 492 00:30:14,700 --> 00:30:15,700 do this, please. 493 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,400 I'm doing all this stuff for you and everything. I'm introducing you to all 494 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,980 these people. If you let me do this, I promise I will leave you alone. 495 00:30:21,790 --> 00:30:25,250 And I'm thinking, well, he should leave me alone anyway, but I have a deal here. 496 00:30:25,850 --> 00:30:31,610 So I ended up going for it, and I took my pants off. He went down on me. 497 00:30:33,010 --> 00:30:34,010 I came. 498 00:30:34,530 --> 00:30:39,410 And then after that, his pants were off. 499 00:30:42,110 --> 00:30:45,590 He took his pants off during that somehow without me knowing. 500 00:30:46,730 --> 00:30:47,810 And then he raped me. 501 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,040 He was raping me anally, and he stopped when I was crying and bleeding. 502 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,200 In your account, you have to say... I'm sorry. 503 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:06,220 My... all the... You okay? It's all, yeah, like, it's just all... 504 00:31:06,220 --> 00:31:13,160 I don't think Ron Jeremy is a bad person, but at that 505 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:19,100 moment, there was a monster that was there, and that was... I knew that my 506 00:31:19,100 --> 00:31:23,420 options were done. It was, like, there's only... so many no's you can give 507 00:31:23,420 --> 00:31:29,160 before you just run out of no's. And when he gave me that look, that was when 508 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:34,200 froze. That was when I had that. That was when the switch flipped of humanity 509 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:35,200 just not what I think it is. 510 00:31:37,820 --> 00:31:42,680 I mean, it's... He 511 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:50,160 knew 512 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:51,160 what he was doing. 513 00:31:52,970 --> 00:31:58,950 And it didn't put you off getting into adult film, did it? Because basically 514 00:31:58,950 --> 00:32:02,590 following year, you went into it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. 515 00:32:03,090 --> 00:32:05,490 Sort of with both feet. Oh, yeah. Balls in. 516 00:32:06,590 --> 00:32:13,290 It made me feel like I was taking control of my own sexuality after it had 517 00:32:13,290 --> 00:32:14,290 taken from me. 518 00:32:14,670 --> 00:32:15,670 But it's about choice. 519 00:32:15,890 --> 00:32:17,350 Yeah. Yeah, it's about choice. 520 00:32:18,030 --> 00:32:21,730 Like, I don't leave a gangbang feeling like I've been traumatized. 521 00:32:22,060 --> 00:32:23,540 as long as everything was consensual. 522 00:32:23,820 --> 00:32:26,940 But if somebody's raping me and they're doing something without their consent, 523 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,620 then that's traumatizing. 524 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,420 How important is it to you that Ron Jeremy could get convicted? 525 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:38,140 I hope he does get convicted because I think, honestly, that for him to be in a 526 00:32:38,140 --> 00:32:43,860 medical facility would be the best thing for him. I think separating him from 527 00:32:43,860 --> 00:32:45,040 society is necessary. 528 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,580 But as far as my healing goes... 529 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,700 What has happened already with the system is what I needed. 530 00:32:54,460 --> 00:33:01,060 And that was for the DA 531 00:33:01,060 --> 00:33:06,420 to tell me that he believes my story and that it was rape and that I was raped 532 00:33:06,420 --> 00:33:10,680 and that it mattered despite what I did for a living. 533 00:33:15,470 --> 00:33:20,390 Jen's need to be believed spoke to a common feeling among sex workers that 534 00:33:20,390 --> 00:33:24,430 accounts of abuse are less likely to be taken seriously than other people's, 535 00:33:24,430 --> 00:33:26,570 simply because of what they do. 536 00:33:29,210 --> 00:33:34,510 With Ron Jeremy now awaiting trial for multiple counts of rape, it seemed that 537 00:33:34,510 --> 00:33:35,510 might be changing. 538 00:33:42,570 --> 00:33:43,710 Back in L .A. 539 00:33:44,110 --> 00:33:48,250 and I'd been thinking more about power imbalances in the industry and how young 540 00:33:48,250 --> 00:33:52,890 performers might be influenced by older men to take part in sex they might not 541 00:33:52,890 --> 00:33:55,750 be okay with in private and on set. 542 00:33:57,050 --> 00:34:01,870 I had an appointment at a shoot by a female -run studio called Balessa that 543 00:34:01,870 --> 00:34:03,850 said to be giving its stars more control. 544 00:34:04,450 --> 00:34:05,550 Hi, Jackie? 545 00:34:05,750 --> 00:34:06,649 Yeah. Louis. 546 00:34:06,650 --> 00:34:09,770 Hi, Louis. Nice to meet you. May I come in? Yeah, come on in. Thank you. 547 00:34:10,570 --> 00:34:13,969 The director went by the porn name Jackie St. James. 548 00:34:14,610 --> 00:34:15,889 Hello, where do you need me? 549 00:34:16,150 --> 00:34:17,850 In the middle of the bed, please. 550 00:34:18,690 --> 00:34:22,230 The set -up for the scene drew on something that had really happened to 551 00:34:22,230 --> 00:34:24,949 performers who'd been friends but had fallen out. 552 00:34:25,510 --> 00:34:27,090 You're going to talk directly to me. 553 00:34:27,610 --> 00:34:29,070 Directly to you? Yes. 554 00:34:29,330 --> 00:34:33,889 They were Michael Vegas, whom I'd met poolside in Pasadena. 555 00:34:34,290 --> 00:34:36,110 Slide over slightly. 556 00:34:36,530 --> 00:34:37,810 And Bunny Colby. 557 00:34:38,489 --> 00:34:40,739 What is... What is your history with Bunny Colby? 558 00:34:41,260 --> 00:34:44,060 Well, we had done a scene together. 559 00:34:44,420 --> 00:34:45,659 Everything went great. 560 00:34:45,860 --> 00:34:51,400 And then we had a tumultuous interaction on the old social media. 561 00:34:52,020 --> 00:34:55,920 You guys have never worked one -on -one? We have not. We've only done a boy 562 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:57,480 -boy, girl -girl -girl together. 563 00:34:58,060 --> 00:35:01,500 Any expectations for how it will go when he walks through these doors? 564 00:35:02,700 --> 00:35:06,440 Um, I think it'll be a little awkward at first, but I think it'll be fine. 565 00:35:19,510 --> 00:35:26,110 I love giving and receiving oral sex. I really love giving it. 566 00:35:26,190 --> 00:35:28,570 Excellent. I love communication like that. 567 00:35:30,529 --> 00:35:34,890 So, what's going on in the culture somewhat is that there are new 568 00:35:34,890 --> 00:35:35,890 about consent. 569 00:35:35,970 --> 00:35:40,210 In the college campus setting, they developed a concept of enthusiastic 570 00:35:40,570 --> 00:35:45,510 Like, consent on its own isn't enough. It has to be like an enthusiastic yes. 571 00:35:45,610 --> 00:35:50,690 You're not kind of tolerating the sex. Now, clearly, in the porn world, that's 572 00:35:50,690 --> 00:35:53,870 not always going to apply because it's a job, right? 573 00:35:54,070 --> 00:35:57,910 You're not going to love every time you go out and have sex for work. 574 00:35:58,710 --> 00:36:04,590 And so within that space, it feels as though there's a potential for bad sex 575 00:36:04,590 --> 00:36:09,150 take place or sex which you don't even know if you're completely okay with. 576 00:36:09,530 --> 00:36:12,890 The onus of responsibility lies on pretty much everyone that's involved, 577 00:36:13,110 --> 00:36:17,330 including the girl, the guy, the producers, when the girl is hired, their 578 00:36:17,490 --> 00:36:20,690 So everyone's communicating, it's going to be this long, this is what you're 579 00:36:20,690 --> 00:36:23,190 going to be dealing with, are you comfortable with the performer you're 580 00:36:23,190 --> 00:36:27,430 with? These are all things that should be taken care of prior to the arrival on 581 00:36:27,430 --> 00:36:34,270 set. Let's say the performer signed off a scene and then it's just uncomfortable 582 00:36:34,270 --> 00:36:38,430 and they're not enjoying it at all. 583 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,320 But they don't feel they can speak out. 584 00:36:43,900 --> 00:36:45,500 I mean, what do you then do with that? 585 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:50,400 How we address that is, I guess, creating an environment where people 586 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:51,319 to do so. 587 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:58,140 But I think a lot of times you'll see performers just saying yes to 588 00:36:58,140 --> 00:37:01,000 something they consented to. But maybe they're uncomfortable, maybe they're in 589 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,440 pain and just are gutting it out until the scene's done. 590 00:37:03,660 --> 00:37:07,740 I think that one of the reasons, and it's one thing we always say at Bless 591 00:37:07,900 --> 00:37:08,900 no matter what. 592 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,520 If you don't do this scene, we are still paying you. 593 00:37:11,860 --> 00:37:15,640 Whereas a lot of studios hold it over the head of the person. Well, if you 594 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:16,920 finish the scene, you're not getting paid. 595 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,300 You guys have fun? 596 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:25,698 Oh, yes. 597 00:37:25,700 --> 00:37:30,700 I really appreciate it. Nice job, guys. I wasn't allowed to talk to you before, 598 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:32,480 so apologies. I told them. 599 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,580 It seemed like I was being rude. Thank you. Nice to see you. 600 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:38,360 Gotta stay in the zone. 601 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:43,380 Yeah. Personally, it felt great for me. I got to very much enjoy your body. 602 00:37:43,500 --> 00:37:47,580 Thank you. Your body language seemed like you enjoyed it. I did enjoy it. So, 603 00:37:47,700 --> 00:37:49,400 it's a win in my book. 604 00:37:49,660 --> 00:37:50,880 Sometimes it is more work. 605 00:37:51,370 --> 00:37:55,130 And sometimes it is more enjoyable, but I would never do something that I didn't 606 00:37:55,130 --> 00:37:58,070 at least have a good portion of enjoyment at. 607 00:37:58,330 --> 00:38:00,810 Can you reflect on changes you've seen? 608 00:38:01,030 --> 00:38:06,090 It's nice to see that there is a bit more acceptance of people speaking out 609 00:38:06,090 --> 00:38:09,290 that there are more options that we have, even though they're not perfect. 610 00:38:10,150 --> 00:38:17,150 But there is still a lot of places where you need to be your own advocate. 611 00:38:17,610 --> 00:38:18,990 And remembering that. 612 00:38:19,530 --> 00:38:20,530 I think it's very important. 613 00:38:20,930 --> 00:38:23,610 I think, Bunny, you had an experience with someone in the industry. 614 00:38:24,070 --> 00:38:30,410 There was just one situation at not even a shoot. It was like a party thing that 615 00:38:30,410 --> 00:38:31,410 I got paid to go to. 616 00:38:32,090 --> 00:38:35,170 And, you know, my big problem wasn't even what happened there. 617 00:38:35,410 --> 00:38:38,690 I got assaulted, but it was fairly minor. Somebody groped me, which is 618 00:38:38,690 --> 00:38:39,790 inappropriate. Don't do that. 619 00:38:40,550 --> 00:38:44,830 My problem was how the people I reached out to afterwards reacted. 620 00:38:45,630 --> 00:38:48,390 And that's really... Can we say that it was your agent? 621 00:38:48,610 --> 00:38:49,578 Yes. 622 00:38:49,580 --> 00:38:53,120 And that's somebody that you need to protect you. That's somebody you are 623 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:57,560 reaching out to to make sure that your work is safe. The real, I think, trauma 624 00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:02,760 of the situation was being told that what happened to me didn't happen. 625 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:07,060 Like being gaslighted and told like, oh, that didn't happen to you. And even if 626 00:39:07,060 --> 00:39:08,800 it did happen to you, who cares? 627 00:39:09,020 --> 00:39:10,440 Like that's essentially what I was told. 628 00:39:11,150 --> 00:39:15,030 That's not allowing people to be in a position in this industry where they're 629 00:39:15,030 --> 00:39:18,070 able to advocate for themselves and able to make good choices about what they 630 00:39:18,070 --> 00:39:21,870 want to do and feel fine at the end of the day coming away from it. And what 631 00:39:21,870 --> 00:39:22,629 his name? 632 00:39:22,630 --> 00:39:23,630 Derek Hay. 633 00:39:29,110 --> 00:39:34,010 For the best part of a decade, Derek Hay was the most powerful agent in porn. 634 00:39:35,810 --> 00:39:40,190 But along with his power came rumours that he was controlling and vindictive. 635 00:39:41,020 --> 00:39:43,580 You've got a busy day here today, haven't you? What have you got going on? 636 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,900 I'm not sure how many shoots we're doing today, but there's the day schedule. 637 00:39:48,020 --> 00:39:50,840 I'd met him on a visit to the industry in 2011. 638 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,500 Two scenes was boy -girl scenes and one was anal. 639 00:39:55,660 --> 00:39:57,840 Yeah. Have you ever done anal before? 640 00:39:58,380 --> 00:40:04,000 I actually, like in my real life, I really don't do much anal. 641 00:40:04,260 --> 00:40:06,640 That would suggest maybe you don't enjoy it that much. 642 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,320 I'm not sure that I agree with your question. 643 00:40:10,230 --> 00:40:14,050 I can think a lot of things that we don't do in our personal life that we do 644 00:40:14,050 --> 00:40:15,050 work. 645 00:40:16,090 --> 00:40:20,570 Seven years later, five performers he represented brought a legal case suing 646 00:40:20,570 --> 00:40:24,010 get out of their contracts, alleging sexual misconduct by Derek. 647 00:40:24,910 --> 00:40:29,290 They also said he'd steered them into doing illegal escorting work for a 648 00:40:29,290 --> 00:40:30,990 called The Luxury Companion. 649 00:40:32,730 --> 00:40:37,530 In many ways, Derek represented that old guard of industry power brokers I'd 650 00:40:37,530 --> 00:40:38,530 been hearing about. 651 00:40:42,370 --> 00:40:43,930 Derek lives in Las Vegas. 652 00:40:44,650 --> 00:40:49,050 He'd agreed to speak, asking that we meet at a tattoo parlor he owns in the 653 00:40:49,050 --> 00:40:50,050 city. 654 00:40:52,150 --> 00:40:53,150 Hello, hello. 655 00:40:53,430 --> 00:40:54,770 Hello. Can I come in? 656 00:40:55,530 --> 00:40:56,530 How are you doing? 657 00:40:56,670 --> 00:40:57,770 Good. You must be Jamie. 658 00:40:57,990 --> 00:40:59,970 I am Jamie, nice to meet you. Louis, nice to meet you. 659 00:41:00,270 --> 00:41:01,270 Hi. Derek. 660 00:41:01,730 --> 00:41:07,730 You've kindly arranged for Jamie to be here. Jamie, you're relatively new to 661 00:41:07,730 --> 00:41:08,790 business, would you say? 662 00:41:09,010 --> 00:41:10,010 Yeah, about April. 663 00:41:10,230 --> 00:41:11,890 By eight months? Eight months of shooting, yeah. 664 00:41:12,210 --> 00:41:15,770 So tell me how you relate to Derek. He's your agent? 665 00:41:16,050 --> 00:41:20,810 He's my agent, yeah. I'm really grateful to Derek for immediately making me feel 666 00:41:20,810 --> 00:41:26,670 like a respected worker, which is what every performer can ask for. 667 00:41:27,290 --> 00:41:32,130 You probably would have noticed that Derek had some legal situations he was 668 00:41:32,130 --> 00:41:32,788 dealing with. 669 00:41:32,790 --> 00:41:36,930 I was familiar with the, you know... 670 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:42,520 you know, legal trouble around this agency, but so much of what you read 671 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:46,840 porn is stigmatized or sensationalized. I just thought I could be a better judge 672 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:53,080 myself. So one of the things you've been dealing with is a labor commission, and 673 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,680 it found against you, correct? That was last year. 674 00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,060 Not completely true, no. 675 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,980 In part, they found against me, yeah. 676 00:42:02,540 --> 00:42:06,100 But that's appealed to superior court. You've appealed, you've made an appeal. 677 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:11,760 Does that, and they've, they have not renewed your license in L .A., is that 678 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:12,760 right? 679 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:20,060 That's another subject that's being contested. As it stands, could we say 680 00:42:20,060 --> 00:42:21,060 that right now? 681 00:42:21,240 --> 00:42:26,580 Right now, do you have a license to be an agent in L .A.? I have a license in 682 00:42:26,580 --> 00:42:27,860 Nevada and in Florida. 683 00:42:28,540 --> 00:42:33,080 So does that put a crimp in your ability to represent young talent like Jamie? 684 00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:38,040 No, because I'm still a licensed agent. Actually, I don't think there's any 685 00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,840 agent who's ever held licenses in three states. 686 00:42:41,140 --> 00:42:45,880 So this is a little bit private, maybe intrusive, but I'll just try it out. 687 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,020 Put it out there. Okay. 688 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:52,740 So are you and Derek in any way involved? 689 00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,360 No. We have a wonderful professional relationship. 690 00:42:58,540 --> 00:43:05,120 has a form in dating clients' models he represents, correct, 691 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:09,840 Derek? I've dated a number of models in the past, but you won't find any 692 00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,000 recently. No. Have you stopped doing that? 693 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:15,220 For many years, yes. 694 00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,940 OK. Jamie, if it's all right with you, I might have a sit -down with Derek now. 695 00:43:20,140 --> 00:43:21,280 Is that OK? 696 00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:22,520 Yes, thank you. 697 00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:26,120 If I can just pause for two minutes. This is an artist that's going to do a 698 00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,100 tattoo. Let me just see if she wants to come in and get set up. Okay. 699 00:43:32,860 --> 00:43:37,040 The five models suing Derek painted a picture of a company where Derek 700 00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:38,280 performers into sex. 701 00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:40,800 Two also alleged he'd assaulted them. 702 00:43:41,720 --> 00:43:46,980 Among the women were three whose porn names were Hadley Biscara, Sophie Ryan 703 00:43:46,980 --> 00:43:47,980 Shea Evans. 704 00:43:48,660 --> 00:43:50,780 Derek has always denied any wrongdoing. 705 00:43:51,690 --> 00:43:53,630 The customer's not coming till 12. Great. 706 00:43:54,030 --> 00:44:00,250 The most serious stuff, a lot of it is around the idea of inappropriate sexual 707 00:44:00,250 --> 00:44:03,830 relationships between you and artists that you represented, in which they felt 708 00:44:03,830 --> 00:44:08,110 they were either required or coerced, or in a couple of cases, assaulted. 709 00:44:09,790 --> 00:44:13,730 Shea Evans says that you said, if you sleep with me, if you agree to a 710 00:44:13,730 --> 00:44:16,450 relationship, I will make you a star. 711 00:44:17,490 --> 00:44:21,190 Well, I have to correct you on that. I don't think Shea Evans has said that. 712 00:44:21,370 --> 00:44:25,930 I've got the quote, the Shea Evans quote on my phone. Would that be helpful if I 713 00:44:25,930 --> 00:44:27,030 gave you the exact quote? 714 00:44:27,290 --> 00:44:27,968 I don't mind. 715 00:44:27,970 --> 00:44:28,970 Okay. 716 00:44:30,510 --> 00:44:33,890 Derek asked me if I wanted to come back to his hotel room, and he asked me a few 717 00:44:33,890 --> 00:44:37,650 times, and then I agreed, and then in the car ride over there, he kept telling 718 00:44:37,650 --> 00:44:40,770 me how I would get a lot of work and that he'd make me a star. 719 00:44:41,470 --> 00:44:46,830 When he refused, this is the trip to Hawaii, he alleged that all porn work... 720 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,020 began to dry up for her on her return home. 721 00:44:49,860 --> 00:44:54,340 And she was given a shoot with Pierre Woodman as a punishment. Even though she 722 00:44:54,340 --> 00:44:58,040 rang Derek crying hysterically before the shoot, he insisted she could not 723 00:44:58,040 --> 00:44:59,040 cancel. 724 00:45:00,340 --> 00:45:04,880 Really? No woman in the adult film industry is coerced to do any particular 725 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:05,880 shoot. 726 00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:12,960 What's your position on the idea that you sexually assaulted a couple of 727 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:14,060 your models? 728 00:45:14,720 --> 00:45:19,400 I did have sex with one of those women on multiple occasions because we were 729 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:20,399 dating. 730 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:21,560 So... Sophie Ryan. 731 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:27,280 Correct. Out of dozens of times that we were intimate, the allegation is that 732 00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:29,060 one of those times was coercive. 733 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:34,460 Her version sounded dreadful, right? I mean, it wasn't like, oh, it was 734 00:45:34,460 --> 00:45:38,720 ambiguous or... I mean, she describes it as you pulled over in a car where there 735 00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:43,640 was no phone coverage, having kind of finagled her into the car and... 736 00:45:44,890 --> 00:45:51,370 Said if you don't give me a handjob, I'm gonna leave you here to die Right But 737 00:45:51,370 --> 00:45:57,930 she was happy to come and spend the night with me just a couple of nights 738 00:45:57,930 --> 00:46:06,170 Do 739 00:46:06,170 --> 00:46:10,370 anything more you wanted to say about that no I need to pause I've got to let 740 00:46:10,370 --> 00:46:11,530 this talk. Okay do it in 741 00:46:17,390 --> 00:46:18,650 Do you want to set up over here? 742 00:46:21,990 --> 00:46:22,990 Right. 743 00:46:23,250 --> 00:46:24,470 What do you... Give me one second. 744 00:46:29,250 --> 00:46:30,590 Can you give me five minutes? 745 00:46:30,810 --> 00:46:31,810 OK, thanks. 746 00:46:36,190 --> 00:46:39,690 Because it's one of the more serious allegations we should deal with, Hadley 747 00:46:39,690 --> 00:46:44,310 Biscara claimed that she was sexually assaulted by you. 748 00:46:44,930 --> 00:46:46,010 She says... 749 00:46:46,430 --> 00:46:51,830 Twice, on two occasions, and... On two occasions, two days apart. 750 00:46:52,230 --> 00:46:53,230 Four days apart. 751 00:46:53,530 --> 00:46:54,530 No. 752 00:46:54,930 --> 00:46:56,490 We'll agree to disagree. 753 00:46:56,790 --> 00:46:57,249 All right. 754 00:46:57,250 --> 00:47:03,750 One was a coerced blowjob, I guess, and the second was, I 755 00:47:03,750 --> 00:47:08,490 guess, a more full -on assault in which she said she was very drunk. 756 00:47:08,710 --> 00:47:14,790 Yeah, she made a police report on that seven months after the fact, and Las 757 00:47:14,790 --> 00:47:15,790 Vegas police... 758 00:47:16,590 --> 00:47:22,530 made some investigation on that and then declined to pursue the case further. 759 00:47:23,370 --> 00:47:25,010 What's your position on what happened? 760 00:47:25,270 --> 00:47:30,830 Both of those occasions was entirely consensual sex 761 00:47:30,830 --> 00:47:32,750 between us. 762 00:47:33,130 --> 00:47:34,130 She's a lesbian? 763 00:47:34,970 --> 00:47:37,510 She became a lesbian after the fact. 764 00:47:38,110 --> 00:47:40,350 Since then, not at the time. 765 00:47:41,550 --> 00:47:42,630 So she says. 766 00:47:44,270 --> 00:47:49,530 So, I guess the crowning allegation is the idea that you made introductions to 767 00:47:49,530 --> 00:47:54,310 an escort agency and they began doing, I guess, illegal sex work as a result of 768 00:47:54,310 --> 00:48:00,090 that. He knowingly attempted to help procure employment for petitioners with 769 00:48:00,090 --> 00:48:06,950 luxury companion, an escort service, and helped book employment for Vizcarra, 770 00:48:07,030 --> 00:48:12,090 helped broker a relationship with Sophie Ryan and Shea Evans so they could work. 771 00:48:13,110 --> 00:48:14,690 As a prestige tattoo and blade. 772 00:48:16,170 --> 00:48:17,230 Oh yeah, she's here. 773 00:48:19,030 --> 00:48:21,150 No, no, you can come in. Where are you? 774 00:48:21,650 --> 00:48:22,650 Please come in. 775 00:48:25,110 --> 00:48:26,230 Okay, please come in. 776 00:48:26,690 --> 00:48:27,970 Please come in. Thank you. 777 00:48:29,770 --> 00:48:30,970 Did you get the last bit? 778 00:48:31,490 --> 00:48:32,490 Yeah. 779 00:48:34,090 --> 00:48:37,610 I think I did anyway. Helped book employment for Vizcara. 780 00:48:37,850 --> 00:48:39,930 Helped broker a relationship with Sophie Ryan. 781 00:48:42,090 --> 00:48:46,670 Shay Evans, Andy Rye, so they could work as escorts. 782 00:48:50,650 --> 00:48:51,650 Come in. 783 00:48:58,790 --> 00:49:00,990 We could get just some sort of a response. 784 00:49:01,810 --> 00:49:06,010 Okay, let me try one more time. Okay, I actually would prefer you not read that 785 00:49:06,010 --> 00:49:07,010 again now. 786 00:49:07,130 --> 00:49:08,130 Okay. 787 00:49:08,330 --> 00:49:13,950 Did you get any sort of referral fee or finder's fee or introduction fee for 788 00:49:13,950 --> 00:49:18,390 steering your models to the luxury companion? 789 00:49:18,730 --> 00:49:23,610 I didn't steer our models to the luxury companion in the first place. 790 00:49:23,990 --> 00:49:28,170 Got no referral fee and no percentage of their earnings at all. 791 00:49:28,950 --> 00:49:31,030 I feel like we've taken up a lot of your time. 792 00:49:31,250 --> 00:49:32,310 Are you okay? 793 00:49:32,710 --> 00:49:34,010 Yes, I'm fine, thank you. 794 00:49:35,870 --> 00:49:36,870 So... 795 00:49:37,390 --> 00:49:42,650 The big picture, I suppose, is the feeling that artists would enter 796 00:49:42,650 --> 00:49:49,530 relationships with you, sexual relationships, and if you were unhappy 797 00:49:49,530 --> 00:49:55,070 how they ended or the way that they ended, you'd intentionally destroy their 798 00:49:55,070 --> 00:49:57,890 careers. That's the allegation that was made. 799 00:49:59,030 --> 00:50:02,030 I contend that none of that is true. 800 00:50:03,590 --> 00:50:06,450 Certainly the women have... 801 00:50:07,070 --> 00:50:11,730 come up with a narrative and script that is unbelievably similar. 802 00:50:12,130 --> 00:50:15,950 In some cases, they're alleging near criminal conduct. 803 00:50:16,410 --> 00:50:20,990 So I look forward to our day or days in court in May of next year. 804 00:50:26,090 --> 00:50:30,110 With all its interruptions, it had ended up being a slightly frustrating 805 00:50:30,110 --> 00:50:34,250 interview, and I wondered if it said something about Derek's personality. 806 00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:37,160 A steely quality of control. 807 00:50:39,060 --> 00:50:43,540 As it stands, Derek is appealing the Labour Commission ruling that upheld the 808 00:50:43,540 --> 00:50:45,500 sexual assault allegations against him. 809 00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:51,800 He also awaits a criminal trial on charges related to the escorting 810 00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:53,860 that could result in prison time. 811 00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:06,840 One of the names that came up often in Derek's Labour Commission hearing was 812 00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:07,840 Pierre Woodman. 813 00:51:07,900 --> 00:51:11,900 Two of Derek's performers said they'd expressed concerns about working with 814 00:51:11,900 --> 00:51:16,800 Pierre, and a third, named Andy Rye, said afterwards that aspects of the 815 00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:18,300 had not been consensual. 816 00:51:22,980 --> 00:51:29,720 Another performer who worked with Pierre in 2016 in a deal brokered by 817 00:51:29,720 --> 00:51:34,600 Derek... went by the porn name Serenity Hayes, which she has since changed. 818 00:51:35,940 --> 00:51:37,640 Why did you decide to come to porn? 819 00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:41,960 I want to be in magazines and movies and stuff like that. 820 00:51:42,700 --> 00:51:44,920 More like exhibitionism stuff? 821 00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:46,178 Yeah. 822 00:51:46,180 --> 00:51:50,880 In a way, your worst case scenario for you is, well, one of the cases where a 823 00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:54,040 woman accused you of rape was Serenity Hayes, right? 824 00:51:54,700 --> 00:51:56,080 When was your first blowjob? 825 00:51:56,890 --> 00:51:57,890 Oh, in porn? 826 00:51:58,310 --> 00:52:01,030 No, no, no, no, no, no. In your life, in your life. In January? 827 00:52:01,510 --> 00:52:02,510 In porn? 828 00:52:02,710 --> 00:52:04,510 No. I don't suck dick in real life. 829 00:52:04,790 --> 00:52:05,790 Never? No. 830 00:52:05,990 --> 00:52:08,050 If I'm not getting paid for it, I'm not doing it. 831 00:52:08,890 --> 00:52:10,290 You never have sucked anyone? 832 00:52:10,690 --> 00:52:16,750 No. It comes across that sex in general gives the impression of not enjoying. 833 00:52:17,390 --> 00:52:19,890 You let him come in your mouth? No. You make a try? 834 00:52:20,310 --> 00:52:21,310 No. 835 00:52:21,790 --> 00:52:22,790 Why not? 836 00:52:22,890 --> 00:52:23,930 Because I said no. 837 00:52:24,750 --> 00:52:25,750 No, no. 838 00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:32,260 Why don't we try to just do a test for the anal sex? 839 00:52:36,340 --> 00:52:39,620 My win -win is like this. Maybe if I can put it inside your butt. 840 00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:44,960 Today or never, you know what I mean? There is a technique which is based on 841 00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:46,100 Chinese secret. 842 00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:48,560 It is with the clitoris and with your heart. 843 00:53:08,510 --> 00:53:14,930 During the scene she just is visibly uncomfortable and she's becoming 844 00:53:14,930 --> 00:53:15,930 increasingly annoyed. 845 00:53:33,260 --> 00:53:34,260 Afterwards, 846 00:53:36,700 --> 00:53:40,660 Serenity Hayes took to Twitter complaining that she hadn't been paid 847 00:53:40,660 --> 00:53:45,440 scene and accusing Pierre of serious sexual assault. 848 00:53:48,810 --> 00:53:52,890 In return, Pierre released this behind the scenes footage of the incident. 849 00:53:53,590 --> 00:54:00,490 What I saw was you attempting to negotiate with her and she experienced 850 00:54:00,490 --> 00:54:06,470 a kind of abuse, right? I could see a case how that is a result of your 851 00:54:06,470 --> 00:54:08,970 practices colliding with her needs. 852 00:54:09,910 --> 00:54:11,030 Does that make sense? 853 00:54:11,390 --> 00:54:15,010 Does it make sense if in five minutes I go... 854 00:54:15,850 --> 00:54:20,090 to internet and I write, oh my God, today Luis was here and I feel so bad 855 00:54:20,090 --> 00:54:23,490 because he harassed me with this question, coming back, coming back all 856 00:54:23,490 --> 00:54:25,450 that I'm a bad guy, I'm a rapist and everything. 857 00:54:26,190 --> 00:54:30,150 My God, now I have trouble and I need to go maybe for one week out of my work 858 00:54:30,150 --> 00:54:34,310 because my head is broken and I feel so bad now with all this crazy discussion 859 00:54:34,310 --> 00:54:36,790 and this pressure he put on me. I don't know if I can continue. 860 00:54:37,030 --> 00:54:38,030 Come on. 861 00:54:39,250 --> 00:54:41,010 What you will think? He will smile. 862 00:54:41,610 --> 00:54:45,930 If I speak just about money part, I lost money because I lost my morning or my 863 00:54:45,930 --> 00:54:47,050 afternoon of job. 864 00:54:47,370 --> 00:54:53,350 Number two, if I said, oh, I send this back home, then she will have right on 865 00:54:53,350 --> 00:54:57,670 internet that I am a motherfucker because I didn't give her the job. I 866 00:54:57,670 --> 00:55:01,190 tried to make this girl feel good. She was a stupid idiot. 867 00:55:01,590 --> 00:55:03,370 Things didn't go well. 868 00:55:03,980 --> 00:55:07,520 I didn't push. I let her go home and that's it. Do you accept the 869 00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:11,440 characterization of you that you use high pressure tactics? 870 00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:13,560 Okay, 871 00:55:15,140 --> 00:55:17,740 what is the high pressure tactic? 872 00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:19,040 Tell me something concrete. 873 00:55:19,300 --> 00:55:26,180 Well, you use the example of having sex with a woman on camera and then 874 00:55:26,180 --> 00:55:30,980 during the sex act saying, why don't we do a DP? One in the front, one in the 875 00:55:30,980 --> 00:55:35,250 back. the more accepted practice would be to decide all of that beforehand. 876 00:55:35,810 --> 00:55:36,810 Why? 877 00:55:36,930 --> 00:55:41,210 Well, so that you're not moving the goalposts. No, but Luis, who said that? 878 00:55:41,270 --> 00:55:42,830 Well, all the performers that I've spoken to. 879 00:55:43,610 --> 00:55:47,290 They say that before you start, and it's not in the middle of the text, you 880 00:55:47,290 --> 00:55:52,030 don't say, oh, you know what, I'm going to come inside you, even though that's 881 00:55:52,030 --> 00:55:53,009 not what you've agreed. 882 00:55:53,010 --> 00:55:54,170 Stop, it's not true. 883 00:55:54,710 --> 00:55:58,270 I am a guy who discusses with the girls and decides with the girls. 884 00:55:59,470 --> 00:56:02,890 I understand that you want absolutely to show me like a bad person. 885 00:56:03,130 --> 00:56:06,530 I don't know why, but it's probably a necessity for you. 886 00:56:06,830 --> 00:56:09,490 It's easy to say bad things about everybody, you know? 887 00:56:09,950 --> 00:56:14,550 So easy. I don't know you. I can just tomorrow or tonight when I will go home, 888 00:56:14,690 --> 00:56:20,110 oh, today this British presenter came and, oh, I'm sure he's this or he's 889 00:56:20,870 --> 00:56:25,590 Given everything that's going on, Me Too, Me Too specifically, there's more 890 00:56:25,590 --> 00:56:27,250 questions asked, people... 891 00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:32,260 Demand more clarity about what is being agreed to. Have you changed your 892 00:56:32,260 --> 00:56:34,760 practices? Will you change your practices? 893 00:56:35,420 --> 00:56:39,260 You want me to change something that I do since 30 years? Work. 894 00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:45,860 I consider that if a girl is 18 years old, adult, and I speak to her, she 895 00:56:45,860 --> 00:56:49,320 what she want to answer and she do what she want to do. 896 00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:53,540 I don't put a gun on her head to take my dick in the mouth and the ass or the 897 00:56:53,540 --> 00:56:55,600 pussy. She do whatever she want. 898 00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:04,860 The encounter with Serenity Hayes and everything that went wrong with it 899 00:57:04,860 --> 00:57:08,060 encapsulated the issue with Pierre's working practices. 900 00:57:09,060 --> 00:57:14,640 But it was also symptomatic of a more pervasive tension in the adult industry, 901 00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:19,180 world where the questionable behaviours that exist in all walks of life coincide 902 00:57:19,180 --> 00:57:24,720 with a workplace involving extreme sex, and where an unjustified stigma has 903 00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:28,200 meant that the voices of its workers haven't always been heard. 904 00:57:30,029 --> 00:57:31,150 Booty to me a little bit more. 905 00:57:33,450 --> 00:57:36,450 I was back with Mia Malkova in her castle. 906 00:57:37,890 --> 00:57:38,970 Right there, perfect for you. 907 00:57:39,790 --> 00:57:41,090 Can you open the knees a little bit? 908 00:57:41,410 --> 00:57:42,410 Yeah. 909 00:57:42,630 --> 00:57:43,630 Right there. 910 00:57:44,050 --> 00:57:45,050 Right there, perfect. 911 00:57:47,490 --> 00:57:49,390 It feels as though the industry's changing. 912 00:57:49,770 --> 00:57:54,030 Yes, because I just think back to when I came into the industry and I was 19 and 913 00:57:54,030 --> 00:57:59,210 I didn't know a lot and I was just very eager to please and not make a fuss. 914 00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:04,260 I've honestly been in situations where the scenes have gotten more aggressive 915 00:58:04,260 --> 00:58:09,260 than I would like, but I'm still wrapped up telling them yes more. And I think a 916 00:58:09,260 --> 00:58:13,400 big part of it is you're just eager to please everybody on set. And once the 917 00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:17,060 camera starts, it's really, really hard. You have to be brave to muster up that 918 00:58:17,060 --> 00:58:20,380 courage to say, stop, no, I don't like that. 919 00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:25,440 But now we have these large followings. So with that comes a lot of power. 920 00:58:26,210 --> 00:58:29,090 It's hard to ignore us anymore, especially when everyone's saying the 921 00:58:29,090 --> 00:58:31,350 thing. It's just empowering.