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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,162 WWW.MY-SUBS.CO 1 00:00:00,043 --> 00:00:03,963 To be fair, it can't be much fun being a racist. 2 00:00:04,003 --> 00:00:06,083 You do all this stuff with them students, 3 00:00:06,123 --> 00:00:08,283 milking it about how much you've changed, 4 00:00:08,323 --> 00:00:10,883 how much of a better man you are now, yet you thought 5 00:00:10,923 --> 00:00:13,563 exactly the same way as I did when you were my age, didn't you? 6 00:00:13,603 --> 00:00:15,043 I'll tuck you in. 7 00:00:15,083 --> 00:00:18,523 - What are you doing in bed with Dad? - I was tired, Matthew. 8 00:00:18,563 --> 00:00:20,763 I'm going to commit a murder to begin a race war. 9 00:00:20,803 --> 00:00:22,563 Another MP, Rosie Cooper. 10 00:00:22,603 --> 00:00:24,283 I know who the informant is. 11 00:00:24,323 --> 00:00:26,683 It's this slug called Robbie Mullen. 12 00:00:26,723 --> 00:00:28,883 A lot of people won't forget what he's done. 13 00:00:28,923 --> 00:00:31,043 The police are here. It's about the boys. 14 00:00:31,083 --> 00:00:32,883 Someone's made a threat against them. 15 00:00:32,923 --> 00:00:36,083 Listen, listen, look. I'm... I'm leaving here now. 16 00:00:36,123 --> 00:00:37,403 Where were these images posted? 17 00:00:37,443 --> 00:00:39,603 We found them on a thread in a mobile seized yesterday. 18 00:00:39,603 --> 00:00:42,203 We believe the original posts are linked to National Action. 19 00:00:42,243 --> 00:00:44,843 I'm sorry. He's gonna have to go. 20 00:00:44,883 --> 00:00:46,843 That's it now. We can't keep doing this. 21 00:00:46,883 --> 00:00:49,123 Robbie, this trial isn't far off now, lad, 22 00:00:49,163 --> 00:00:52,003 and you're going to have to demonstrate to the jury 23 00:00:52,043 --> 00:00:54,363 that you're not the same as Renshaw and the others, 24 00:00:54,403 --> 00:00:56,043 that they can trust you, 25 00:00:56,083 --> 00:00:59,043 cos you're different from them. 26 00:00:59,083 --> 00:01:00,243 Is this some sort of test? 27 00:01:00,283 --> 00:01:02,003 Sticking me in the middle of Nigeria, 28 00:01:02,043 --> 00:01:03,363 see how he handles it, yeah? 29 00:01:03,403 --> 00:01:04,723 - You're scared, aren't you? - No! 30 00:01:04,763 --> 00:01:06,523 Cos you want me to stand up in court 31 00:01:06,563 --> 00:01:09,283 and tell everybody that I'm a changed man and I'm not! 32 00:01:10,279 --> 00:01:12,312 _ 33 00:01:13,138 --> 00:01:17,494 _ 34 00:01:40,886 --> 00:01:42,887 Jack Renshaw, stand up. 35 00:01:45,204 --> 00:01:48,203 You've been found guilty of four counts 36 00:01:48,243 --> 00:01:51,642 of inciting a child to engage in sexual activities. 37 00:01:51,661 --> 00:01:54,125 You've displayed not one shred of remorse 38 00:01:54,126 --> 00:01:56,086 and the defence you put forward, 39 00:01:56,097 --> 00:01:58,137 that your phone had been hacked, was as lacking 40 00:01:58,138 --> 00:02:00,292 in evidence as it was credibility. 41 00:02:00,768 --> 00:02:04,363 These are very serious offences against minors, 42 00:02:04,403 --> 00:02:07,083 and in one case, a boy as young as 13, 43 00:02:07,308 --> 00:02:09,363 and society needs protection 44 00:02:09,364 --> 00:02:12,084 against predatory paedophiles like you. 45 00:02:12,792 --> 00:02:17,041 I impose upon you a prison sentence of 16 months. 46 00:02:17,817 --> 00:02:19,013 Take him down. 47 00:02:19,014 --> 00:02:22,134 Jack! We love you, son! 48 00:02:26,203 --> 00:02:28,400 16 months. It could have been worse. 49 00:02:28,429 --> 00:02:31,047 God, it's going to be in the newspapers. 50 00:02:32,443 --> 00:02:34,603 The whole fucking world's gonna read it. 51 00:02:34,643 --> 00:02:36,622 The judge ordered reporting restrictions 52 00:02:36,623 --> 00:02:39,267 because of the upcoming trial for the plan to kill the MP. 53 00:02:39,311 --> 00:02:41,169 No detail from this case can be published 54 00:02:41,170 --> 00:02:42,835 until after that's taken place. 55 00:02:42,836 --> 00:02:44,705 What? So, they can't print it yet? 56 00:02:44,723 --> 00:02:46,625 We've got a bit of time. 57 00:02:47,083 --> 00:02:49,603 But the story will come out, Jack. 58 00:03:01,670 --> 00:03:04,283 I've got to warn you, it's a shithole in here. 59 00:03:04,323 --> 00:03:07,451 I live with four lads. Yous all stink. 60 00:03:09,203 --> 00:03:10,767 All right, lad? 61 00:03:11,387 --> 00:03:13,683 Yeah, I'm very well, thank you. How are you? 62 00:03:13,723 --> 00:03:15,563 Lovely. Yeah, what a beautiful day! 63 00:03:19,450 --> 00:03:20,957 Are you not going to eat that? 64 00:03:21,407 --> 00:03:23,167 I'm not hungry. 65 00:03:23,657 --> 00:03:25,377 Save it for later. 66 00:03:30,413 --> 00:03:32,384 How are you feeling? 67 00:03:35,723 --> 00:03:38,186 Been doing anything exciting? 68 00:03:39,598 --> 00:03:41,278 Watching the telly? 69 00:03:42,035 --> 00:03:44,692 Any boxsets you'd like to recommend? 70 00:03:45,065 --> 00:03:47,219 I haven't been watching much telly. 71 00:03:47,357 --> 00:03:49,203 I've just... just been on the computer. 72 00:03:50,159 --> 00:03:51,705 What did you say? 73 00:03:52,643 --> 00:03:55,514 I've not been watching telly. I've been on the computer. 74 00:03:56,643 --> 00:03:59,283 You're being careful about what websites you've been going on? 75 00:04:01,523 --> 00:04:04,350 - Robbie? - You're telling me what to do again. 76 00:04:04,367 --> 00:04:05,979 Yeah, I am telling you what to do, yeah. 77 00:04:05,980 --> 00:04:07,634 Because if you've been getting in touch 78 00:04:07,635 --> 00:04:09,475 with any of your old pals from National Action 79 00:04:09,536 --> 00:04:10,851 or if you've been looking 80 00:04:10,883 --> 00:04:13,603 at some kind of Combat 18 website or the BNP 81 00:04:13,643 --> 00:04:15,960 or whatever right-wing shite you used to look at, 82 00:04:15,961 --> 00:04:19,371 then this trial will collapse and you'll end up in prison. 83 00:04:19,802 --> 00:04:22,443 Where we're from, most people end up in prison anyway, don't they? 84 00:04:22,483 --> 00:04:25,123 - Oh, what kind of comment's that, eh? - All right, come on. 85 00:04:25,163 --> 00:04:26,603 Wish I was going to prison 86 00:04:26,643 --> 00:04:28,723 instead of standing in court grassing on people. 87 00:04:28,763 --> 00:04:30,387 Will you shut up about being a grass? 88 00:04:30,474 --> 00:04:32,557 Who are you trying to protect anyway? 89 00:04:32,843 --> 00:04:34,403 Jack Renshaw? 90 00:04:34,443 --> 00:04:37,083 Because he's just been convicted for grooming young boys. 91 00:04:37,123 --> 00:04:39,113 We've only got your word for that though. 92 00:04:39,166 --> 00:04:40,563 You could be trying to trick us. 93 00:04:40,603 --> 00:04:41,803 Why would I wanna trick you? 94 00:04:41,843 --> 00:04:44,363 - I don't know. Why wouldn't you? - Are you stupid or something? 95 00:04:44,403 --> 00:04:45,883 Stupid? Why am I stupid? 96 00:04:45,923 --> 00:04:47,363 You're an ungrateful little twat. 97 00:04:47,364 --> 00:04:48,522 - Hey, that's enough! - Yeah. 98 00:04:48,523 --> 00:04:50,241 - Yeah, all of this. - All of this?! 99 00:04:50,242 --> 00:04:52,962 - Look at all this you've got here... - Look, will you pack it in? 100 00:04:52,963 --> 00:04:55,443 Please, the two of you, you're worse than the boys! 101 00:04:55,483 --> 00:04:58,581 You, get in the shower. Wash your hair! 102 00:04:59,203 --> 00:05:02,563 And you, you can get the hoover out. 103 00:05:26,843 --> 00:05:28,243 I'm sorry 104 00:05:28,283 --> 00:05:30,786 if I sounded ungrateful before, but... 105 00:05:31,723 --> 00:05:34,334 I just don't like it. It's full of Blacks and Asians. 106 00:05:34,335 --> 00:05:35,595 Rob, come on. 107 00:05:35,596 --> 00:05:38,044 I know I'm not supposed to say things like that, 108 00:05:38,045 --> 00:05:39,775 but I can't help it. 109 00:05:40,171 --> 00:05:41,794 It's the way that I feel. 110 00:05:42,437 --> 00:05:44,363 Well, I know it looks bad but... 111 00:05:44,403 --> 00:05:47,643 No, what looks bad, lad, is if you get caught out lying. 112 00:05:47,969 --> 00:05:51,146 At least if you tell the truth, then no-one can trip you up. 113 00:05:52,803 --> 00:05:55,643 Are you expecting anyone? 114 00:05:55,683 --> 00:05:58,459 You're joking, aren't you? Nobody else knows I live here. 115 00:06:01,883 --> 00:06:03,563 - All right? - Yeah. 116 00:06:04,202 --> 00:06:06,162 Someone to see you, lad. 117 00:06:06,683 --> 00:06:08,083 Mill! 118 00:06:08,123 --> 00:06:09,323 Hello, baby! 119 00:06:09,363 --> 00:06:11,643 Hello! What you doing? 120 00:06:11,683 --> 00:06:13,723 B-b-b-b-b... Hello! 121 00:06:14,330 --> 00:06:17,603 Well, at least he's glad to see someone. How is he anyway? 122 00:06:17,643 --> 00:06:19,643 Unhelpful, angry. 123 00:06:19,683 --> 00:06:20,904 Suspicious. 124 00:06:20,913 --> 00:06:22,611 Well, his usual jolly self then. 125 00:06:22,982 --> 00:06:24,723 This could be end of us, you know that? 126 00:06:24,763 --> 00:06:26,363 I mean, if this all goes wrong, 127 00:06:26,403 --> 00:06:28,563 then our reputation is shot to pieces. 128 00:06:28,603 --> 00:06:31,965 So, it all hangs on a big, sulky racist from Widnes? 129 00:06:32,843 --> 00:06:33,923 It's not funny! 130 00:06:35,163 --> 00:06:36,483 She's got a point. 131 00:06:37,082 --> 00:06:40,206 You need to try and get out, you know, meet people. 132 00:06:40,362 --> 00:06:41,643 What, round here? 133 00:06:41,683 --> 00:06:43,683 Yes, round here. 134 00:06:43,723 --> 00:06:47,843 It's not doing you any good sitting in that flat all day by yourself. 135 00:06:47,883 --> 00:06:51,603 I've ruined my life, I know I have. 136 00:06:51,643 --> 00:06:53,323 You have not. 137 00:06:56,083 --> 00:06:58,034 What if they don't believe me, 138 00:06:58,403 --> 00:06:59,723 the jury? 139 00:07:00,803 --> 00:07:03,083 It's my word against theirs, isn't it? 140 00:07:03,123 --> 00:07:06,363 Yeah, but you're telling the truth. 141 00:07:12,243 --> 00:07:14,443 I don't wanna do it any more. 142 00:07:14,483 --> 00:07:16,523 That's the truth. 143 00:07:18,963 --> 00:07:21,603 I just wanna go back to the way things were before. 144 00:07:29,843 --> 00:07:33,363 Oi, what you playing at? Get to the back of the queue, bruv! 145 00:07:33,403 --> 00:07:35,203 I'm not eating. I'm not eating. 146 00:07:37,083 --> 00:07:38,723 You all right, Chris? 147 00:07:41,523 --> 00:07:43,523 How... How's it going? 148 00:07:43,563 --> 00:07:45,589 I've been hearing whispers about you. 149 00:07:50,163 --> 00:07:52,083 Look, they hacked my phone. 150 00:07:52,383 --> 00:07:55,687 They put all this stuff on it to destroy my reputation. 151 00:07:56,128 --> 00:07:58,363 It's all fucking lies! 152 00:08:02,603 --> 00:08:05,925 I mean, they're making me out like I'm some sort of paedo. 153 00:08:08,203 --> 00:08:11,083 Matthew Collins is behind it all. He's trying to destroy me. 154 00:08:11,688 --> 00:08:14,163 This could make us all look bad. 155 00:08:14,272 --> 00:08:16,180 That won't happen. 156 00:08:20,409 --> 00:08:22,477 I promise you that won't happen. 157 00:08:30,031 --> 00:08:32,683 He's got a big day in front of him tomorrow. 158 00:08:32,723 --> 00:08:35,683 Try and make him look respectable, Shimmy. 159 00:08:35,723 --> 00:08:37,140 I'll do my best. 160 00:08:37,687 --> 00:08:39,923 Who's at the bar mitzvah? 161 00:08:39,963 --> 00:08:41,723 That's my grandson, Reuben. 162 00:08:44,403 --> 00:08:46,524 I'll be honest with you, Matthew, 163 00:08:46,853 --> 00:08:48,274 he's got it tough. 164 00:08:48,326 --> 00:08:50,760 Him and his sisters, they go to the Jewish school. 165 00:08:51,124 --> 00:08:54,164 Whole place surrounded by barbed wire. 166 00:08:55,635 --> 00:08:56,755 Hold still. 167 00:08:56,957 --> 00:08:59,363 Three security guards on the door. 168 00:08:59,403 --> 00:09:01,483 It's the same with all the Jewish schools. 169 00:09:01,523 --> 00:09:03,043 That it should come to that, eh, 170 00:09:03,230 --> 00:09:04,950 in this day and age. 171 00:09:06,710 --> 00:09:08,923 Children having to cross barbed wire 172 00:09:09,301 --> 00:09:10,720 to go to school. 173 00:09:19,963 --> 00:09:22,243 - He looks dapper, don't he? - Yeah. 174 00:09:22,286 --> 00:09:24,845 You look really handsome, dead smart. 175 00:09:24,846 --> 00:09:26,252 How do you feel? 176 00:09:26,749 --> 00:09:28,189 Like a twat. 177 00:09:29,163 --> 00:09:32,419 Oh, no, like a used car salesman or something. 178 00:09:33,738 --> 00:09:36,363 - I wouldn't buy life insurance off you. - Stop it! 179 00:09:36,403 --> 00:09:39,212 Don't listen. Robbie, you look great. 180 00:09:39,213 --> 00:09:41,733 You look like someone who's doing the right thing. 181 00:09:41,771 --> 00:09:45,015 _ 182 00:09:45,049 --> 00:09:48,313 _ There he is! 183 00:10:10,539 --> 00:10:13,764 _ 184 00:10:22,043 --> 00:10:23,123 Hey. 185 00:10:24,643 --> 00:10:27,283 You all right? So, listen, Matthew can't be here, 186 00:10:27,323 --> 00:10:29,043 not until you've both given evidence, 187 00:10:29,083 --> 00:10:30,363 but he wanted me to tell you, 188 00:10:30,403 --> 00:10:32,083 you look better without the bum fluff. 189 00:10:32,123 --> 00:10:34,289 Come on, you'll be fine. 190 00:10:34,603 --> 00:10:36,071 In here. 191 00:10:37,043 --> 00:10:38,843 Sorry, mate, can I help you? 192 00:10:42,403 --> 00:10:44,932 Are you connected to the case? 193 00:10:44,936 --> 00:10:47,536 - I'm connected with the defence. - Oh, right. 194 00:10:56,349 --> 00:10:57,709 You know him? 195 00:11:00,643 --> 00:11:02,043 No. 196 00:11:02,083 --> 00:11:05,092 He's just trying to freak you out. Come on, let's get you some tea. 197 00:11:07,285 --> 00:11:09,005 Court will rise. 198 00:11:24,894 --> 00:11:28,243 Members of the jury, it will be alleged by the Crown 199 00:11:28,283 --> 00:11:31,305 that the defendants hold extreme views. 200 00:11:31,561 --> 00:11:34,203 All of you, I suspect, hold views 201 00:11:34,243 --> 00:11:36,643 which could be described as the very opposite of these. 202 00:11:36,683 --> 00:11:39,203 You're not racist, you're not homophobic, 203 00:11:39,243 --> 00:11:41,083 you're not anti-Semitic. 204 00:11:41,123 --> 00:11:44,683 But it is not a criminal offence in this country 205 00:11:44,723 --> 00:11:46,203 just to hold these views, 206 00:11:46,243 --> 00:11:48,876 however repulsive you feel they might be. 207 00:11:49,173 --> 00:11:51,958 We live in a free society 208 00:11:51,993 --> 00:11:55,043 and the law tolerates the holding of these opinions. 209 00:12:11,723 --> 00:12:16,043 Ladies and gentlemen, I appear on behalf of the prosecution. 210 00:12:16,083 --> 00:12:19,613 Mr Atkinson, I'm going to ask you to pause for a moment there, 211 00:12:19,660 --> 00:12:22,883 as we need to hear from Mr Jackson. 212 00:12:24,203 --> 00:12:26,003 - What have you done? - My lord. 213 00:12:26,043 --> 00:12:27,843 I don't care any more. 214 00:12:27,883 --> 00:12:29,243 It's too late for me. 215 00:12:29,283 --> 00:12:31,523 Thank you, my lord. I represent Mr Renshaw, 216 00:12:31,563 --> 00:12:33,843 and I would seek, with your leave, 217 00:12:33,883 --> 00:12:36,763 that you have him re-arraigned on counts one and two. 218 00:12:37,161 --> 00:12:39,003 If this is how you wish to proceed. 219 00:12:39,043 --> 00:12:41,421 It is how I'm instructed, Your Lordship. 220 00:12:42,278 --> 00:12:45,943 Jack Renshaw, will you stand up, please? 221 00:12:47,803 --> 00:12:50,803 You are charged on count one of this indictment 222 00:12:50,843 --> 00:12:55,003 of engaging in conduct in preparation of a terrorist act, 223 00:12:55,043 --> 00:12:58,777 namely the murdering of Rosie Cooper MP. 224 00:12:59,183 --> 00:13:01,803 Are you guilty or not guilty? 225 00:13:02,139 --> 00:13:03,539 Guilty. 226 00:13:06,483 --> 00:13:09,883 On count two, you are charged with making a threat to kill. 227 00:13:09,923 --> 00:13:13,243 The particulars are that, on July 1st, 2017, 228 00:13:13,283 --> 00:13:15,243 you made a threat to Robbie Mullen 229 00:13:15,283 --> 00:13:17,907 that you would kill DC Victoria Henderson, 230 00:13:17,915 --> 00:13:20,123 intending that Robbie Mullen would fear 231 00:13:20,163 --> 00:13:22,655 that said threat would be carried out. 232 00:13:22,898 --> 00:13:25,283 Are you guilty or not guilty? 233 00:13:26,096 --> 00:13:27,616 Guilty. 234 00:13:33,845 --> 00:13:36,445 Renshaw's pleaded guilty to the plots to kill. 235 00:13:37,323 --> 00:13:38,683 What? Guilty? 236 00:13:39,729 --> 00:13:42,793 Well, but does that mean I don't have to give any evidence? 237 00:13:42,808 --> 00:13:45,883 - It's all over or...? - Not quite, I'm afraid. 238 00:13:45,923 --> 00:13:47,763 They're all still on trial for membership 239 00:13:47,803 --> 00:13:50,883 and Lythgoe's facing one count of encouragement to murder. 240 00:13:50,923 --> 00:13:54,643 I reckon he's fallen on his sword to try and bury all the paedo stuff. 241 00:13:54,683 --> 00:13:55,723 Stupid. 242 00:13:56,027 --> 00:13:58,123 He at least had a decent shot at a defence, 243 00:13:58,163 --> 00:14:00,403 but now he's going to end up with life imprisonment? 244 00:14:00,443 --> 00:14:01,883 He wants the headline to be 245 00:14:01,923 --> 00:14:04,723 "Fascist martyr prepared to kill for the cause". 246 00:14:04,763 --> 00:14:07,123 And not "Fascist paedo trying to have sex with young boys". 247 00:14:07,163 --> 00:14:09,003 What about Lythgoe and Hankinson? 248 00:14:09,043 --> 00:14:10,763 He's trying to take the heat off them. 249 00:14:10,803 --> 00:14:13,683 Mr Atkinson, if you could pick up from where you left off, please. 250 00:14:14,025 --> 00:14:15,619 My lord. 251 00:14:17,043 --> 00:14:19,963 These defendants stand before you, 252 00:14:20,003 --> 00:14:25,446 accused of their continuing participation in National Action, 253 00:14:25,576 --> 00:14:29,403 a banned organisation that sought actively through fear, 254 00:14:29,443 --> 00:14:33,363 intimidation and violence to shape society 255 00:14:33,403 --> 00:14:35,963 in accordance with their beliefs. 256 00:14:39,043 --> 00:14:41,923 Mr Renshaw had purchased a machete 257 00:14:41,963 --> 00:14:43,923 with which to carry out his plan. 258 00:14:43,963 --> 00:14:47,243 The online marketing for that particular item 259 00:14:47,283 --> 00:14:49,083 describes it as offering 260 00:14:49,123 --> 00:14:52,563 "19 inches of unprecedented piercing 261 00:14:52,603 --> 00:14:55,883 "and slashing power at a market price". 262 00:14:58,803 --> 00:15:01,243 There is now no doubt, after his guilty pleas, 263 00:15:01,283 --> 00:15:05,083 that Mr Renshaw planned the murders of Rosie Cooper MP 264 00:15:05,123 --> 00:15:07,443 and Detective Constable Victoria Henderson. 265 00:15:07,483 --> 00:15:10,643 The Crown's case is that he was given permission 266 00:15:10,683 --> 00:15:12,683 to carry out the murder of Rosie Cooper 267 00:15:12,723 --> 00:15:16,344 by the then leader of National Action, Chris Lythgoe, 268 00:15:16,645 --> 00:15:20,565 in the name of that organisation. 269 00:15:22,763 --> 00:15:26,523 My lord, I call Robbie Mullen. 270 00:15:33,803 --> 00:15:36,363 Mr Mullen, it's time. 271 00:16:19,723 --> 00:16:23,283 Place your right hand on the Bible and read from the card. 272 00:16:29,043 --> 00:16:31,483 I... I swear by almighty God 273 00:16:31,523 --> 00:16:33,763 that the evidence I shall give 274 00:16:33,803 --> 00:16:36,679 shall be the truth, the whole truth 275 00:16:36,894 --> 00:16:38,814 and nothing but the truth. 276 00:16:47,884 --> 00:16:49,844 Could you confirm your name, please? 277 00:16:50,163 --> 00:16:51,643 Robbie Mullen. 278 00:16:51,683 --> 00:16:54,123 A little about you to start with, Mr Mullen. 279 00:16:54,163 --> 00:16:56,730 Where in the country did you grow up? 280 00:16:57,181 --> 00:16:59,963 Widnes, which is in the north-west. 281 00:17:00,003 --> 00:17:03,563 Your school days came to somewhat of an abrupt end. 282 00:17:03,603 --> 00:17:06,483 An incident involving you swearing at a teacher? 283 00:17:07,507 --> 00:17:08,767 Yeah. 284 00:17:09,043 --> 00:17:11,243 And you've drifted from job to job since then, 285 00:17:11,283 --> 00:17:13,203 no real direction in your life? 286 00:17:14,470 --> 00:17:15,830 I suppose so. 287 00:17:16,923 --> 00:17:19,803 When did you join National Action? 288 00:17:20,479 --> 00:17:22,283 2015. 289 00:17:22,323 --> 00:17:24,123 The gentlemen sitting in the dock, 290 00:17:24,163 --> 00:17:28,083 are they all known to you through that organisation? 291 00:17:31,799 --> 00:17:32,866 Yeah. 292 00:17:32,867 --> 00:17:36,323 My lord, could Mr Mullen speak up, please? I couldn't hear his reply. 293 00:17:36,363 --> 00:17:38,163 Do try and project your voice 294 00:17:38,203 --> 00:17:41,278 to the back of the court, please, Mr Mullen. 295 00:17:41,929 --> 00:17:43,083 Sorry. 296 00:17:43,624 --> 00:17:45,039 Yeah. 297 00:17:47,301 --> 00:17:51,154 You and they were all members of the organisation before the ban? 298 00:17:51,327 --> 00:17:53,421 - Yeah. - And were you all still members 299 00:17:53,422 --> 00:17:56,683 after the ban on National Action at the end of 2016? 300 00:17:57,299 --> 00:17:58,348 Yeah. 301 00:17:58,349 --> 00:18:00,283 After the ban, did there come a time 302 00:18:00,323 --> 00:18:02,323 when you had contact with Matthew Collins, 303 00:18:02,363 --> 00:18:05,763 who worked for the organisation Hope Not Hate? 304 00:18:05,803 --> 00:18:07,643 - Yeah. - For what reason? 305 00:18:09,363 --> 00:18:11,243 I couldn't tell you, really. 306 00:18:11,283 --> 00:18:13,603 I knew I just needed to get out of there... 307 00:18:13,643 --> 00:18:16,523 My lord, I'm sorry, he has a tendency to drop his head down, 308 00:18:16,563 --> 00:18:17,563 drop his voice down. 309 00:18:17,603 --> 00:18:21,203 Perhaps try moving a little closer to the microphone please, Mr Mullen. 310 00:18:25,566 --> 00:18:27,046 Sorry. 311 00:18:28,363 --> 00:18:31,323 On page 20 of the bundle, 312 00:18:31,363 --> 00:18:34,323 we can see an email you had screenshot-ed 313 00:18:34,363 --> 00:18:36,363 and forwarded to Matthew Collins. 314 00:18:38,345 --> 00:18:40,401 - Yeah. - It was an encrypted email 315 00:18:40,402 --> 00:18:42,363 you'd received from Chris Lythgoe, 316 00:18:42,403 --> 00:18:44,603 where he was talking about recruiting new members 317 00:18:44,643 --> 00:18:47,083 for National Action in towns in the north-west. 318 00:18:47,123 --> 00:18:48,523 Er, yeah. 319 00:18:50,014 --> 00:18:54,163 Largely white towns, and other - 320 00:18:54,372 --> 00:18:58,504 his words - "horrifically Paki-fied" towns. 321 00:19:02,023 --> 00:19:03,323 Yeah. 322 00:19:03,574 --> 00:19:05,603 Next page of the bundle, another email, 323 00:19:05,643 --> 00:19:08,443 this one after National Action had been banned. 324 00:19:08,483 --> 00:19:10,523 In it you ask Chris Lythgoe, 325 00:19:10,563 --> 00:19:14,003 "Are you staying leader of the overall group?" 326 00:19:14,043 --> 00:19:16,843 And can you read his reply? 327 00:19:18,523 --> 00:19:20,923 "You're damn fucking right I am. 328 00:19:20,963 --> 00:19:24,563 "I'm the one person with a clear picture 329 00:19:24,603 --> 00:19:26,923 "of where we're going long-term." 330 00:19:28,603 --> 00:19:33,443 So, in the period immediately after the ban, Lythgoe remained in charge? 331 00:19:34,674 --> 00:19:35,771 Yeah. 332 00:19:35,954 --> 00:19:37,834 And Matt Hankinson? 333 00:19:41,123 --> 00:19:44,203 He was Chris's second-in-command. 334 00:19:45,603 --> 00:19:48,403 He handled security and stuff. 335 00:19:48,443 --> 00:19:49,923 And after the ban? 336 00:19:52,363 --> 00:19:54,403 Carried on like before. 337 00:19:54,443 --> 00:19:56,323 They both did. 338 00:19:58,203 --> 00:20:03,363 Let's turn our attention now to the night of July 1st, 2017. 339 00:20:03,403 --> 00:20:06,243 Did Mr Renshaw say why he was going to kill 340 00:20:06,283 --> 00:20:08,523 Rosie Cooper and Victoria Henderson? 341 00:20:08,563 --> 00:20:12,283 We believed, at first, it was because he was depressed 342 00:20:12,323 --> 00:20:15,203 about going to prison for his hate speeches. 343 00:20:15,243 --> 00:20:19,723 But I now know that it was also because he'd been arrested 344 00:20:19,763 --> 00:20:22,483 for grooming young boys and it was about to come out. 345 00:20:22,523 --> 00:20:24,883 What was Mr Lythgoe's demeanour 346 00:20:24,923 --> 00:20:27,523 as Mr Renshaw outlined his plans? 347 00:20:28,350 --> 00:20:30,203 He seemed happy. 348 00:20:30,543 --> 00:20:33,437 Smiling, nodding his head. 349 00:20:33,607 --> 00:20:36,203 Did he mention the Home Secretary, Amber Rudd? 350 00:20:36,403 --> 00:20:37,683 Yeah. 351 00:20:38,171 --> 00:20:42,003 He said Jack should do her instead of Rosie Cooper. 352 00:20:42,043 --> 00:20:44,123 And what did Mr Renshaw say? 353 00:20:44,163 --> 00:20:48,083 He said she'd be too well protected. 354 00:20:49,403 --> 00:20:52,043 Did Mr Hankinson say anything? 355 00:20:52,507 --> 00:20:55,403 Yeah. He said, "You should do a synagogue." 356 00:20:55,443 --> 00:20:57,323 And I said there'd be kids there... 357 00:20:57,363 --> 00:20:59,003 My lord, again, I didn't hear any of that. 358 00:20:59,043 --> 00:21:02,283 And I'm afraid it's not just volume. He has quite a strong accent. 359 00:21:02,323 --> 00:21:04,243 I'm finding it difficult to understand. 360 00:21:04,283 --> 00:21:08,363 Mr Mullen, once again, I must ask you to speak up. 361 00:21:08,403 --> 00:21:11,363 If you mumble, nobody can understand you. 362 00:21:17,363 --> 00:21:20,043 So, you said there might be children in a synagogue, 363 00:21:20,083 --> 00:21:22,726 and what did Mr Renshaw say to that? 364 00:21:25,963 --> 00:21:27,723 He said, "All Jews are the same. 365 00:21:28,537 --> 00:21:31,534 "You don't class a rat by its age." 366 00:21:31,758 --> 00:21:35,158 He said, "Vermin is vermin." 367 00:21:40,639 --> 00:21:44,062 _ 368 00:21:44,084 --> 00:21:47,042 _ 369 00:21:49,123 --> 00:21:51,323 Mr Mullen, you made a statement to the police 370 00:21:51,363 --> 00:21:53,923 describing yourself in 2015, 371 00:21:53,963 --> 00:21:55,963 at the point you joined National Action, 372 00:21:56,003 --> 00:22:00,083 as a "bored young man looking for some identity or path to take". 373 00:22:00,123 --> 00:22:01,603 Is that right? 374 00:22:01,643 --> 00:22:03,083 If you say so. 375 00:22:03,123 --> 00:22:05,970 It's not me saying so. It's what you told the police. 376 00:22:07,843 --> 00:22:09,476 - OK. - After leaving school, 377 00:22:09,477 --> 00:22:11,443 you were unemployed and claiming sickness benefit 378 00:22:11,483 --> 00:22:13,843 for, erm... about four years? 379 00:22:15,483 --> 00:22:18,163 Yeah. I had a... a stomach problem. 380 00:22:18,203 --> 00:22:19,483 Were you sick? 381 00:22:19,523 --> 00:22:23,243 - For about a year, on and off. - For one year. 382 00:22:23,283 --> 00:22:25,683 So, you accept that for three of those four years, 383 00:22:25,723 --> 00:22:28,163 you were fraudulently claiming benefits then? 384 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:30,283 It weren't that simple. 385 00:22:30,808 --> 00:22:32,479 Sometimes, I was sick, 386 00:22:32,673 --> 00:22:35,523 and then I got better. It came and went. 387 00:22:36,032 --> 00:22:38,323 Wearing your National Action hat, 388 00:22:38,363 --> 00:22:42,723 what would your reaction have been, say, to a young Somali teenager 389 00:22:42,763 --> 00:22:45,523 arriving in this country, going "on the sick", 390 00:22:45,563 --> 00:22:47,043 with false stomach problems, 391 00:22:47,083 --> 00:22:50,302 and fraudulently claiming three years of benefits? 392 00:22:53,483 --> 00:22:54,883 Dunno. 393 00:22:57,443 --> 00:23:01,323 What did you think of the murder of the MP Jo Cox? 394 00:23:01,363 --> 00:23:03,523 I thought the guy that did it was a weirdo. 395 00:23:03,563 --> 00:23:05,323 You were asked in your police interview, 396 00:23:05,363 --> 00:23:08,043 "Did you think she was a traitor?" What did you answer? 397 00:23:09,323 --> 00:23:10,683 I don't remember. 398 00:23:10,723 --> 00:23:13,843 Well, I can tell you. You said, "Yes." 399 00:23:13,883 --> 00:23:15,523 So, I obviously did. 400 00:23:15,563 --> 00:23:18,883 But does it say in that interview what time I was talking about? 401 00:23:18,923 --> 00:23:20,883 It doesn't really matter, does it, Mr Mullen? 402 00:23:20,923 --> 00:23:22,003 Well, it obviously does 403 00:23:22,043 --> 00:23:24,123 because I was probably being asked 404 00:23:24,163 --> 00:23:27,443 what I thought about it before she was killed and not after. 405 00:23:27,483 --> 00:23:29,243 You regarded somebody like Jo Cox, 406 00:23:29,283 --> 00:23:32,342 with her stance on immigration, as a traitor, didn't you? 407 00:23:32,351 --> 00:23:35,911 Yeah, but that doesn't mean I thought she deserved to be killed. 408 00:23:36,603 --> 00:23:39,123 Thank you, my lord. No further questions. 409 00:23:41,634 --> 00:23:45,403 Mr Mullen, as you know, I appear for Christopher Lythgoe. 410 00:23:45,443 --> 00:23:47,763 After your expulsion from school 411 00:23:47,803 --> 00:23:50,563 and a succession of dead-end jobs, 412 00:23:50,603 --> 00:23:53,843 you found being a member of National Action exciting. 413 00:23:53,883 --> 00:23:56,083 It gave you purpose. There were finally people 414 00:23:56,123 --> 00:23:58,403 in your life that were listening to you. 415 00:23:59,883 --> 00:24:01,643 I suppose so. 416 00:24:01,683 --> 00:24:03,643 You told the police 417 00:24:03,683 --> 00:24:05,895 that the primary purpose of National Action 418 00:24:05,896 --> 00:24:08,963 was to start a race war 419 00:24:09,593 --> 00:24:12,033 and to "take our country back". 420 00:24:12,603 --> 00:24:14,643 - Yeah. - So, that must mean 421 00:24:14,683 --> 00:24:17,323 that, at that time, you shared those same views? 422 00:24:17,363 --> 00:24:19,243 I never said that I didn't. 423 00:24:19,283 --> 00:24:21,123 Please speak up, Mr Mullen. 424 00:24:21,163 --> 00:24:24,083 I never said that I didn't share those views. 425 00:24:24,938 --> 00:24:26,412 Anti-Jew? 426 00:24:28,843 --> 00:24:30,803 At the time, yeah. 427 00:24:30,843 --> 00:24:32,283 Anti-Black? 428 00:24:32,323 --> 00:24:33,843 Yeah. 429 00:24:33,883 --> 00:24:36,403 Anti-Asian, anti any non-white? 430 00:24:36,645 --> 00:24:38,123 Yeah. 431 00:24:38,163 --> 00:24:41,083 Homophobic? You know what "homophobic" means? 432 00:24:41,123 --> 00:24:42,363 Yeah. 433 00:24:43,523 --> 00:24:45,803 He's the best witness the defence have got. 434 00:24:45,843 --> 00:24:47,843 So, you were for a white Britain 435 00:24:47,883 --> 00:24:51,203 by any means necessary, including violence? 436 00:24:53,763 --> 00:24:55,123 Yeah. 437 00:24:55,163 --> 00:24:57,083 Again, we can't hear you. 438 00:24:57,123 --> 00:24:58,603 Yeah. 439 00:25:05,363 --> 00:25:09,127 Are you still racist? Remember, you are under oath. 440 00:25:11,963 --> 00:25:13,363 Yeah. 441 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:15,760 But less so. 442 00:25:18,843 --> 00:25:22,483 Now, you say you didn't like the way that things were working out 443 00:25:22,523 --> 00:25:25,803 with National Action, which is why you wanted to get out. 444 00:25:25,843 --> 00:25:28,123 And yet, after the murder of Jo Cox, 445 00:25:28,163 --> 00:25:30,222 after the organisation was banned, 446 00:25:30,223 --> 00:25:34,163 you still continued to attend meetings. Why is that? 447 00:25:35,323 --> 00:25:38,523 - It wasn't that easy to walk away. - Why not? 448 00:25:40,563 --> 00:25:42,803 I'd spent a lot of time with these people. 449 00:25:47,283 --> 00:25:49,163 They were my friends. 450 00:25:50,203 --> 00:25:52,299 Perhaps you were lonely? 451 00:25:54,387 --> 00:25:55,987 In a way, yeah. 452 00:25:57,123 --> 00:25:59,883 A lonely drifter with a dead-end life, 453 00:25:59,923 --> 00:26:03,403 in search of friendship and approval. 454 00:26:05,603 --> 00:26:07,186 No further questions. 455 00:26:07,257 --> 00:26:10,097 Thank you, Mr Aylett. Let's call it a day there 456 00:26:10,163 --> 00:26:12,883 and reconvene on Monday morning. 457 00:26:33,043 --> 00:26:35,523 And the doctor said you're getting stronger, 458 00:26:35,563 --> 00:26:37,683 and the nurses are well happy with you. 459 00:26:37,974 --> 00:26:40,805 Said I'll be able to take you for a little walk soon. 460 00:26:43,043 --> 00:26:46,363 No. No, not just yet. No, you can't have any Guinness yet. 461 00:26:49,351 --> 00:26:51,271 Hello, Matthew. 462 00:26:52,443 --> 00:26:53,883 All right, love? 463 00:26:53,923 --> 00:26:57,163 I've got T-shirts and clean underwear. 464 00:27:00,483 --> 00:27:03,083 We hadn't been down from Liverpool long. 465 00:27:03,123 --> 00:27:05,763 Yours was the first friendly face I remember. 466 00:27:08,068 --> 00:27:11,057 You know, our kid blamed me for me dad leaving, not you. 467 00:27:11,517 --> 00:27:13,323 He said, because I told my mum 468 00:27:13,363 --> 00:27:16,723 when I saw you and my dad in bed together, then I was a grass... 469 00:27:18,563 --> 00:27:20,843 and it was my fault that he left us. 470 00:27:23,043 --> 00:27:24,723 I'm sorry. 471 00:27:25,683 --> 00:27:28,963 I know now that my dad was to blame, you know. 472 00:27:29,523 --> 00:27:32,963 He was the adult. You were so young. 473 00:27:36,643 --> 00:27:40,893 You know your mum and dad's marriage was over long before I came along. 474 00:27:42,813 --> 00:27:46,323 But I suppose I was responsible for him moving out. 475 00:27:46,476 --> 00:27:48,603 Why are you still washing his pants? 476 00:27:52,322 --> 00:27:53,954 I don't know. 477 00:27:56,901 --> 00:27:59,741 Did you ever meet anyone else? 478 00:28:00,283 --> 00:28:05,134 Yeah. I married briefly to Ray. 479 00:28:09,102 --> 00:28:11,043 He wasn't your dad. 480 00:28:12,923 --> 00:28:15,083 He was very charismatic. 481 00:28:15,444 --> 00:28:17,164 He still is. 482 00:28:18,883 --> 00:28:21,363 I was in love with him. 483 00:28:29,563 --> 00:28:32,003 Leona, I don't know how to say this. 484 00:28:36,723 --> 00:28:38,963 I hated you when I was growing up. 485 00:28:40,363 --> 00:28:41,843 OK. 486 00:28:41,883 --> 00:28:44,083 And because you ran off with my dad 487 00:28:44,123 --> 00:28:46,003 and split our house up... 488 00:28:48,483 --> 00:28:50,323 and because you were Black, 489 00:28:51,378 --> 00:28:55,178 I used you as an excuse to hate all Black people. 490 00:28:55,523 --> 00:28:57,963 Well, to me, yous were all to blame. 491 00:28:58,003 --> 00:28:59,803 You know, my head was so warped. 492 00:28:59,843 --> 00:29:02,981 I was filled with so much anger and so much hate, I... 493 00:29:04,123 --> 00:29:06,483 I joined the National Front. 494 00:29:09,085 --> 00:29:10,363 Are you stupid? 495 00:29:10,403 --> 00:29:12,643 No, no, I'm not. No, Leona, honestly, 496 00:29:12,683 --> 00:29:15,963 I don't think like that any more. Look, I'm sorry, but... 497 00:29:16,003 --> 00:29:18,856 it's not me. Do you know what I mean? 498 00:29:18,857 --> 00:29:21,843 I've spent so long trying to put right what I did. 499 00:29:27,123 --> 00:29:28,923 So, what do you want from me now? 500 00:29:33,283 --> 00:29:35,345 Why are you telling me this? 501 00:29:37,283 --> 00:29:38,963 You want forgiveness? 502 00:29:40,323 --> 00:29:41,803 I think so. 503 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:43,711 OK. 504 00:29:45,003 --> 00:29:46,843 I forgive you. 505 00:29:48,843 --> 00:29:51,843 But what about everybody else? 506 00:30:20,203 --> 00:30:21,443 Brenda? 507 00:30:21,483 --> 00:30:22,963 I checked in on Robbie at the flat. 508 00:30:23,003 --> 00:30:25,083 - He's not there. - Shit! 509 00:30:25,123 --> 00:30:27,695 Neighbour saw him Friday. He's legged it to Widnes. 510 00:30:27,715 --> 00:30:30,275 Yeah. Yeah, that's definitely where he's gone. 511 00:30:41,465 --> 00:30:43,025 - Is it that one? - Yeah. 512 00:30:50,483 --> 00:30:51,548 Natalie? 513 00:30:51,549 --> 00:30:53,643 - I'm Matthew Collins. - I know who you are. 514 00:30:53,683 --> 00:30:55,803 We've just come to ask Robbie to come back to London 515 00:30:55,843 --> 00:30:58,102 - to continue giving his evidence. - He's not here. 516 00:30:58,103 --> 00:31:00,683 Don't fuck about. We've driven for over four hours to get here. 517 00:31:00,723 --> 00:31:01,896 Sorry about that. 518 00:31:01,897 --> 00:31:05,075 What's the point? None of them believe a word I'm saying anyway. 519 00:31:05,076 --> 00:31:07,923 Come back, lad. Renshaw's been convicted now. All you got to do... 520 00:31:07,963 --> 00:31:10,763 Stand there while they take the piss out of me, my pathetic life, 521 00:31:10,803 --> 00:31:13,763 the way I talk? It's not right, what they're putting him through. 522 00:31:13,803 --> 00:31:16,003 What the fuck has me getting kicked out of school 523 00:31:16,043 --> 00:31:18,283 or going on the sick got to do with anything? 524 00:31:18,323 --> 00:31:20,723 Robbie, come back. 525 00:31:21,197 --> 00:31:23,397 I'm not coming back. Stop being so fucking selfish! 526 00:31:23,398 --> 00:31:26,016 - You're behaving like a spoilt brat! - OK, come on. 527 00:31:26,017 --> 00:31:28,403 No, look, there's people doing everything they can for you. 528 00:31:28,443 --> 00:31:30,523 I put my own family in danger for you. 529 00:31:30,563 --> 00:31:33,363 Now be a man and come back and finish what you started! 530 00:31:33,403 --> 00:31:35,279 - Just fuck off! - No, you fuck off! 531 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:36,563 Matt, this isn't helping! 532 00:31:36,603 --> 00:31:38,603 Look, he's got to finish this, Natalie. 533 00:31:38,643 --> 00:31:40,843 He doesn't have to do anything. Now, please, 534 00:31:40,883 --> 00:31:43,785 my brother's made his decision. Please respect that. 535 00:31:48,603 --> 00:31:51,306 Fucking waste of time that was, wasn't it? 536 00:32:07,893 --> 00:32:10,140 I don't care what they say, Robbie. 537 00:32:11,363 --> 00:32:14,064 You're not the same as them other boys on trial. 538 00:32:19,843 --> 00:32:21,563 I think you're a good person. 539 00:32:25,683 --> 00:32:27,203 Night-night. 540 00:32:31,955 --> 00:32:35,261 _ 541 00:32:35,292 --> 00:32:37,962 _ 542 00:32:38,604 --> 00:32:40,524 Court will rise. 543 00:32:51,323 --> 00:32:54,243 Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. We are ready to start. 544 00:33:03,039 --> 00:33:04,043 Hello? 545 00:33:04,083 --> 00:33:07,403 The court's in session. No-one's seen him. 546 00:33:07,443 --> 00:33:09,443 OK, keep us posted. 547 00:33:13,335 --> 00:33:14,982 He's not turned up. 548 00:33:15,383 --> 00:33:16,582 What did you say? 549 00:33:16,583 --> 00:33:18,423 He's not here. 550 00:33:30,274 --> 00:33:31,378 Hey, mate. 551 00:33:31,619 --> 00:33:32,643 All right. 552 00:33:32,683 --> 00:33:34,243 I knew you'd turn up. 553 00:33:34,283 --> 00:33:35,723 I see laughing boy's back. 554 00:33:37,974 --> 00:33:39,723 Don't worry about it. 555 00:33:47,740 --> 00:33:48,843 Hello? 556 00:33:48,883 --> 00:33:51,079 I'm with him now. I told you not to worry. 557 00:33:51,131 --> 00:33:52,963 All right. Nice one, mate. 558 00:33:53,337 --> 00:33:54,843 Thanks, ta-ra. 559 00:33:55,308 --> 00:33:56,923 Right, we're back on. 560 00:33:57,963 --> 00:33:59,814 - Do you wanna go across? - Yeah. All right. 561 00:33:59,815 --> 00:34:02,125 - I'll see you later. - See you in a bit, love. 562 00:34:02,126 --> 00:34:04,803 And wasn't it the case that night, Mr Mullen, 563 00:34:04,843 --> 00:34:07,840 that Mr Lythgoe and Mr Hankinson were both very drunk? 564 00:34:07,851 --> 00:34:09,443 It didn't seem like they were to me. 565 00:34:09,483 --> 00:34:12,998 When Mr Renshaw outlined his plans that night, 566 00:34:13,137 --> 00:34:15,763 how sure were you that he was being serious? 567 00:34:15,914 --> 00:34:17,274 100%. 568 00:34:17,445 --> 00:34:19,165 And Mr Lythgoe's reaction? 569 00:34:19,168 --> 00:34:21,723 He said something like, "Don't fuck it up." 570 00:34:21,763 --> 00:34:23,203 Are you sure of that? 571 00:34:23,243 --> 00:34:25,763 Could he not actually have said, by way of comment, 572 00:34:25,803 --> 00:34:27,403 "You'll only fuck it up"? 573 00:34:27,443 --> 00:34:30,203 No. It was "Don't fuck it up". 574 00:34:30,243 --> 00:34:33,483 You see now, I suggest that that wasn't said, Mr Mullen. 575 00:34:33,523 --> 00:34:35,043 Well, I suggest it was. 576 00:34:36,090 --> 00:34:37,683 After National Action 577 00:34:37,723 --> 00:34:39,163 had been banned... 578 00:34:39,203 --> 00:34:40,523 ... and things started 579 00:34:40,563 --> 00:34:42,603 to quieten down, isn't it the case that you started 580 00:34:42,643 --> 00:34:44,683 to look elsewhere for excitement? 581 00:34:45,434 --> 00:34:46,603 No, that's not the truth. 582 00:34:46,643 --> 00:34:49,323 You didn't want to go back to being that bored young man 583 00:34:49,363 --> 00:34:52,283 looking for an identity, did you? Which is why you sexed up 584 00:34:52,323 --> 00:34:54,283 what was actually said in the pub that night... 585 00:34:54,323 --> 00:34:55,403 That's ridiculous. 586 00:34:55,443 --> 00:34:56,803 ... so you had something exciting 587 00:34:56,843 --> 00:34:58,683 to offer your new friends at Hope Not Hate. 588 00:34:58,723 --> 00:35:01,083 - No. - Your friends who had sorted out 589 00:35:01,123 --> 00:35:03,563 a flat for you and the ones who took you on holiday to Dublin. 590 00:35:03,563 --> 00:35:05,683 It wasn't like that. Not a holiday holiday. 591 00:35:05,723 --> 00:35:08,123 You had to give them something nice and juicy, didn't you? 592 00:35:08,163 --> 00:35:11,523 Because they were the ones that were listening to you now, weren't they? 593 00:35:11,563 --> 00:35:13,483 I don't know what you're going on about. 594 00:35:13,523 --> 00:35:16,843 I'm not making anything up. I heard what I heard. 595 00:35:16,883 --> 00:35:19,083 And you weren't there, were you, mate? 596 00:35:20,043 --> 00:35:22,803 No further questions, my lord. 597 00:35:23,283 --> 00:35:25,803 - Thank you, Mr Mullen. - Is that it? 598 00:35:27,203 --> 00:35:29,323 Yes, you may stand down. 599 00:35:36,603 --> 00:35:38,403 Jack Renshaw is a hero! 600 00:35:38,443 --> 00:35:41,523 He's a nonce, mate, and he got exactly what he deserved, yeah! 601 00:35:43,003 --> 00:35:45,243 My lord, I call Jack Renshaw. 602 00:35:45,283 --> 00:35:47,483 In the pub that night, were you seeking permission 603 00:35:47,523 --> 00:35:49,403 from Chris Lythgoe and National Action 604 00:35:49,443 --> 00:35:51,396 - to do what you had in your mind? - No. 605 00:35:51,518 --> 00:35:54,963 Did he ever say to you, when you'd revealed your intentions, 606 00:35:55,003 --> 00:35:56,163 "Don't fuck it up"? 607 00:35:56,942 --> 00:36:00,203 No. That sounds like the workings of Mullen's fantasy. 608 00:36:00,243 --> 00:36:03,083 Were you drunk when you arrived at the pub that night? 609 00:36:03,652 --> 00:36:07,572 Yes. I was intoxicated and I was in a poor mental state. 610 00:36:08,243 --> 00:36:12,163 We were all very drunk, but Chris is very similar to me, 611 00:36:12,203 --> 00:36:15,123 in the sense that we don't normally show that we're drunk. 612 00:36:15,163 --> 00:36:17,403 You know, we talk more, talk louder, 613 00:36:17,443 --> 00:36:21,163 but, well, physically, we don't particularly look drunk. 614 00:36:21,636 --> 00:36:24,561 Thank you, Mr Renshaw. Could you wait there, please? 615 00:36:28,443 --> 00:36:30,963 Mr Renshaw, is it your hatred of the Jews 616 00:36:31,003 --> 00:36:34,043 what led you into extreme right-wing politics? 617 00:36:34,083 --> 00:36:35,683 Because you hate them, don't you? 618 00:36:35,723 --> 00:36:37,963 - Yeah, I do. - Do you accept 619 00:36:38,003 --> 00:36:40,283 - that there were gas chambers? - No. 620 00:36:43,163 --> 00:36:46,083 Do you accept the holocaust, that millions of Jews were killed 621 00:36:46,123 --> 00:36:48,283 by the Nazis during World War II? 622 00:36:48,323 --> 00:36:51,203 - No, I do not. - Where did they all go then? 623 00:36:51,985 --> 00:36:55,163 Most of them were put into concentration camps, 624 00:36:55,203 --> 00:36:59,003 but if you look at the statistics of Jews prior to the war 625 00:36:59,043 --> 00:37:00,723 and Jews after the war, 626 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,243 the Jewish population actually increased. 627 00:37:10,096 --> 00:37:11,736 So, what was your plan? 628 00:37:11,737 --> 00:37:14,335 What were you going to do with this machete? 629 00:37:15,883 --> 00:37:18,363 I hadn't really thought it through. 630 00:37:18,403 --> 00:37:20,523 Chop Rosie Cooper's head off? 631 00:37:21,248 --> 00:37:23,448 Through the heart, or what? 632 00:37:23,963 --> 00:37:25,243 Probably the jugular. 633 00:37:25,283 --> 00:37:27,803 And what were you going to do with this machete on the jugular? 634 00:37:27,843 --> 00:37:29,203 Hack at it. 635 00:37:30,763 --> 00:37:33,243 You said earlier you couldn't really remember anything 636 00:37:33,283 --> 00:37:35,163 that had happened at the pub that evening? 637 00:37:35,203 --> 00:37:37,843 - Just snippets. - Just snippets. 638 00:37:37,883 --> 00:37:40,123 But do we understand those snippets to include 639 00:37:40,163 --> 00:37:42,923 that you can remember Mr Hankinson did not mention the synagogue 640 00:37:42,963 --> 00:37:45,003 as somewhere you might attack instead? 641 00:37:45,043 --> 00:37:47,123 - That's right. - And you can clearly remember 642 00:37:47,163 --> 00:37:50,818 that Mr Lythgoe did not say, "Make sure you don't fuck it up"? 643 00:37:50,819 --> 00:37:53,375 Yeah, because that's just not something he would say. 644 00:37:53,376 --> 00:37:56,277 Those snippets, by chance, you remember - 645 00:37:56,278 --> 00:37:57,706 the ones that help your friends. 646 00:37:57,707 --> 00:37:59,363 Curious that the rest of the conversation 647 00:37:59,403 --> 00:38:02,363 you were too drunk to remember. Is it that you're trying 648 00:38:02,403 --> 00:38:05,147 to protect your friends, Mr Renshaw? 649 00:38:05,594 --> 00:38:09,034 Is that why you're standing there now, lying to the jury? 650 00:38:14,083 --> 00:38:15,763 I haven't lied. 651 00:38:48,603 --> 00:38:50,163 Are you all right, Bren? 652 00:38:50,203 --> 00:38:52,843 You just make sure you do the fucking business in there, yeah? 653 00:38:56,403 --> 00:38:59,163 That's the twat who's giving Robbie grief. 654 00:38:59,203 --> 00:39:00,683 - Is he? - Yeah. 655 00:39:00,723 --> 00:39:03,083 He's been staring him out, trying to intimidate him. 656 00:39:05,363 --> 00:39:07,723 Hey, gobshite, why don't me and you go for a little walk 657 00:39:07,763 --> 00:39:09,344 - after this, eh? - Any time. 658 00:39:09,345 --> 00:39:11,772 Yeah, any time. Ready when you are. 659 00:39:14,745 --> 00:39:15,760 Mr Collins, 660 00:39:15,761 --> 00:39:18,753 at one point you, yourself, were a mole, weren't you? 661 00:39:18,896 --> 00:39:19,978 That's right, yeah. 662 00:39:19,979 --> 00:39:21,844 Er... I was a member of the National Front 663 00:39:21,845 --> 00:39:23,523 and then the BNP. 664 00:39:23,563 --> 00:39:27,443 I was passing information to an anti-fascist magazine. 665 00:39:27,483 --> 00:39:30,619 How did you first come into contact with Robbie Mullen? 666 00:39:30,792 --> 00:39:33,220 He wrote to me under a false name. 667 00:39:33,221 --> 00:39:36,643 You know, it was pretty clear that he felt trapped at National Action. 668 00:39:36,683 --> 00:39:38,683 It was like he was in a cult and he wanted out. 669 00:39:38,723 --> 00:39:42,011 Did he ever ask for any money for the information he gave you? 670 00:39:42,012 --> 00:39:43,123 No, none. 671 00:39:44,152 --> 00:39:45,200 Thank you. 672 00:39:45,963 --> 00:39:49,563 You took Mr Mullen on holiday, didn't you, to Dublin? 673 00:39:49,603 --> 00:39:51,923 I wouldn't exactly call it a holiday. 674 00:39:51,963 --> 00:39:55,043 He needed a breather. To be honest with you, we both did. 675 00:39:55,083 --> 00:39:58,963 Well, the situation was very tense at the time. 676 00:39:59,003 --> 00:40:01,923 Was that as a reward for coming up with some juicy titbits 677 00:40:01,963 --> 00:40:03,403 for your website 678 00:40:03,443 --> 00:40:05,003 and Hope Not Hate magazine? 679 00:40:05,043 --> 00:40:07,523 No. We felt like we had a duty of care towards him, 680 00:40:07,563 --> 00:40:10,363 you know, both for his physical and mental wellbeing. 681 00:40:10,403 --> 00:40:12,956 Well, because, as you said, you'd been there yourself. 682 00:40:12,957 --> 00:40:16,082 All those years ago, that anti-fascist magazine had paid 683 00:40:16,083 --> 00:40:19,313 for an air ticket for you to Australia, hadn't it? 684 00:40:19,319 --> 00:40:20,919 That's right, they did, yeah. 685 00:40:21,923 --> 00:40:24,523 Yeah, but there's a big difference between me and Robbie Mullen. 686 00:40:25,115 --> 00:40:27,203 You see, I ran off to Australia 687 00:40:27,243 --> 00:40:28,963 rather than be called up to face any trial 688 00:40:29,003 --> 00:40:32,323 because I didn't want to be accused publicly as an informant. 689 00:40:33,367 --> 00:40:35,843 You know, I didn't wanna be called a grass. 690 00:40:36,330 --> 00:40:38,705 You see, me and Robbie come from a similar background 691 00:40:38,714 --> 00:40:40,263 and we both know what that means. 692 00:40:40,384 --> 00:40:41,499 But he's got the courage 693 00:40:41,500 --> 00:40:43,843 to come back and face the people he's accusing. 694 00:40:43,883 --> 00:40:45,683 Very commendable, I'm sure. 695 00:40:45,723 --> 00:40:47,763 - No, what I'm saying is... - Thank you, my lord. 696 00:40:47,803 --> 00:40:52,883 What I'm saying is Robbie Mullen's a better man than me. 697 00:41:02,523 --> 00:41:04,203 Court will rise. 698 00:41:06,043 --> 00:41:07,523 Foreman of the jury, 699 00:41:07,563 --> 00:41:10,403 have you reached verdicts upon which you are all agreed? 700 00:41:10,443 --> 00:41:12,043 Yes. 701 00:41:13,293 --> 00:41:15,643 Will the defendants please rise? 702 00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:24,323 On count three, encouragement to commit murder, 703 00:41:24,747 --> 00:41:27,523 do you find the defendant, Christopher Lythgoe, 704 00:41:27,563 --> 00:41:29,843 guilty or not guilty? 705 00:41:33,379 --> 00:41:34,646 Not guilty. 706 00:41:35,563 --> 00:41:39,883 On count four, membership of a proscribed organisation, 707 00:41:39,923 --> 00:41:43,323 contrary to Section 11 of the Terrorism Act, 708 00:41:43,363 --> 00:41:48,323 do you find the defendant, Jack Renshaw, guilty or not guilty? 709 00:41:50,163 --> 00:41:51,851 Not guilty. 710 00:41:53,043 --> 00:41:57,723 On the same count, membership of a proscribed organisation, 711 00:41:57,763 --> 00:42:00,883 do you find the defendant, Matthew Hankinson, 712 00:42:00,923 --> 00:42:03,763 guilty or not guilty? 713 00:42:04,299 --> 00:42:05,877 Guilty. 714 00:42:06,974 --> 00:42:11,067 On the same count, membership of a proscribed organisation, 715 00:42:11,123 --> 00:42:14,260 do you find the defendant, Christopher Lythgoe, 716 00:42:14,361 --> 00:42:16,641 guilty or not guilty? 717 00:42:19,589 --> 00:42:21,243 Guilty. 718 00:42:27,123 --> 00:42:31,363 The idea that this country should be purged of its ethnic minorities, 719 00:42:31,403 --> 00:42:33,043 its Jews and homosexuals, 720 00:42:33,083 --> 00:42:37,443 and an ideological revolution imposed on the population by force, 721 00:42:37,483 --> 00:42:40,643 is both insidious and evil. 722 00:42:40,683 --> 00:42:44,563 Only a moment's thought is required to come to the conclusion 723 00:42:44,603 --> 00:42:46,803 that violence and repression 724 00:42:46,843 --> 00:42:49,283 on an unprecedented scale would be needed 725 00:42:49,323 --> 00:42:51,003 to achieve such a reign of terror, 726 00:42:51,043 --> 00:42:55,563 because so many right-minded people would rise up 727 00:42:55,603 --> 00:42:58,723 and oppose these monstrous plans. 728 00:43:13,363 --> 00:43:16,483 - All right? Come in. - You OK? 729 00:43:17,963 --> 00:43:20,123 Thanks for looking after him during the trial. 730 00:43:20,163 --> 00:43:21,723 Well, he did that himself. 731 00:43:21,763 --> 00:43:24,043 Nobody can persuade him to do anything he don't want to. 732 00:43:25,123 --> 00:43:26,403 All right. 733 00:43:27,041 --> 00:43:28,770 Ah, ta. 734 00:43:30,345 --> 00:43:31,983 Ooh. 735 00:43:36,300 --> 00:43:37,736 So, go on, then. 736 00:43:38,127 --> 00:43:39,780 What did they get? 737 00:43:41,483 --> 00:43:45,643 Renshaw got life with a minimum term of 20 years. 738 00:43:47,107 --> 00:43:50,433 Lythgoe got eight and Hankinson got six. 739 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:56,883 Rosie Cooper, the MP, she thanked you at the trial. 740 00:43:56,923 --> 00:44:00,643 She gave a statement, saying how grateful she was for what you did. 741 00:44:01,621 --> 00:44:04,083 She's supposed to be meeting us at the House of Commons today. 742 00:44:04,123 --> 00:44:05,873 That's why I came down here, but... 743 00:44:05,891 --> 00:44:07,631 I was going to go along with you, wasn't I? 744 00:44:07,649 --> 00:44:10,000 - Mm. - Then why aren't yous going? 745 00:44:10,078 --> 00:44:11,923 Well, the police cancelled it this morning, 746 00:44:12,536 --> 00:44:14,723 and they told her she can't meet with Robbie. 747 00:44:14,763 --> 00:44:17,123 Why can't they just leave it be, eh? 748 00:44:17,163 --> 00:44:19,763 My mum's got Ellie and I wanted to do some shopping afterwards. 749 00:44:19,803 --> 00:44:21,363 I was looking forward to it. 750 00:44:21,403 --> 00:44:24,363 That's what happens to people like us, innit? 751 00:44:25,946 --> 00:44:27,708 Right, get your coat. 752 00:44:27,726 --> 00:44:29,643 - What? - We're going shopping, come on! 753 00:44:29,683 --> 00:44:32,386 We'll get the tube into town. Are you coming, Robbie? 754 00:44:32,412 --> 00:44:33,858 Absolutely not! 755 00:44:34,274 --> 00:44:35,283 Are you sure? 756 00:44:36,323 --> 00:44:37,643 Right. 757 00:44:38,683 --> 00:44:40,923 - I'll see you later. - Have fun. See you later. 758 00:44:40,963 --> 00:44:42,803 - See you later, love. - Cheers. 759 00:44:42,843 --> 00:44:45,483 Don't spend too much money! 760 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:49,391 - You don't fancy that, lad, no? - No! 761 00:44:49,923 --> 00:44:52,283 I can't think of anything worse, myself. 762 00:44:54,683 --> 00:44:57,483 I don't think they believed a word I said, did they... 763 00:44:58,423 --> 00:44:59,520 the jury? 764 00:44:59,521 --> 00:45:01,083 I told you they wouldn't. 765 00:45:01,123 --> 00:45:03,883 Well, we got the guilty convictions we needed, didn't we? 766 00:45:04,439 --> 00:45:07,066 Got a couple of non-guilties too, though. 767 00:45:07,114 --> 00:45:10,194 Well, either way, they're all in prison, aren't they? 768 00:45:11,003 --> 00:45:13,883 Look, you stopped two women from getting murdered. 769 00:45:14,816 --> 00:45:16,374 Never forget that. 770 00:45:19,339 --> 00:45:22,284 You know, the best bit of the trial for me, Rob, 771 00:45:22,285 --> 00:45:25,483 was when they asked you was you still a racist... 772 00:45:27,243 --> 00:45:29,403 and you said, "Less so." 773 00:45:30,923 --> 00:45:33,123 You know, it's not just all about people like me 774 00:45:33,163 --> 00:45:34,803 being struck by bolts of lightning 775 00:45:34,843 --> 00:45:37,526 and suddenly seeing the world differently. 776 00:45:38,963 --> 00:45:40,643 It's about people like you... 777 00:45:42,359 --> 00:45:44,935 changing just a little bit. 778 00:45:48,781 --> 00:45:52,340 You know, in the words of the late, great Robert Nesta, 779 00:45:52,453 --> 00:45:56,283 "We all have a voice inside us that talks to us 780 00:45:56,323 --> 00:45:59,323 "and that's the voice we must listen to. 781 00:45:59,891 --> 00:46:01,763 "Because in everything you do, 782 00:46:01,803 --> 00:46:04,523 "there's a right way and a wrong way. 783 00:46:04,563 --> 00:46:06,603 "And if you listen good, 784 00:46:07,251 --> 00:46:09,083 "you'll know the right way." 785 00:46:10,963 --> 00:46:12,643 "Less so." 786 00:46:14,323 --> 00:46:17,683 I'll have that, lad. That's progress. 787 00:46:22,763 --> 00:46:25,123 Jo Cox. Thank you, Mr Speaker. 788 00:46:25,163 --> 00:46:28,043 It's a great privilege to be called to make my maiden speech 789 00:46:28,083 --> 00:46:31,803 in this most important of debates, and I congratulate many others 790 00:46:31,843 --> 00:46:34,323 who've made outstanding maiden speeches today as well. 791 00:46:35,256 --> 00:46:40,764 _ 792 00:46:41,483 --> 00:46:44,923 Batley and Spen is a gathering of typically independent, 793 00:46:44,963 --> 00:46:48,563 no-nonsense, proud Yorkshire towns and villages. 794 00:46:48,603 --> 00:46:51,963 Our communities have been deeply enhanced by immigration, 795 00:46:52,003 --> 00:46:54,483 be it Irish Catholics across the constituency, 796 00:46:54,523 --> 00:46:59,283 or Muslims from Indian Gujarat or Pakistan, principally from Kashmir. 797 00:47:00,010 --> 00:47:05,487 _ 798 00:47:06,323 --> 00:47:09,243 And whilst we celebrate our diversity, 799 00:47:09,283 --> 00:47:11,763 the thing that surprises me, time and time again, 800 00:47:11,803 --> 00:47:15,163 as I travel around the constituency, is that we are far more united 801 00:47:15,203 --> 00:47:18,043 and have far more in common than that which divides us. 802 00:47:19,309 --> 00:47:27,026 _ 61607

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