Original subtitles

Previously, on the disappearance of Maura Murray.

Fred, why are you upset with the police?

I think they're hiding something.

I've been looking into the theory that the police covered up Maura's

disappearance. What would you ask him if you had one question?

What did you do with Maura Murray?

And interviewed an eyewitness, known as Witness A, who concealed her identity

for years.

Do you wish you had gone back and asked if you could help?

Sometimes I think that I may have disappeared, too, if I did.

Her accusations hinge on police SUV 001, a vehicle people assert was only

driven by the chief, Jeff Williams.

But the police claim otherwise.

What vehicle were you in? The Explorer 4x4. With unprecedented access to law

enforcement, I'm picking this theory apart.

People have said that you guys know where she is. We don't know where she

and we don't know what happened to her.

And so far, I'm not convinced police were involved.

But something else caught my attention.

Fred said, well, she's all depressed.

Go out in the woods, you step off the trail, and you die.

Have you heard the theory that there was another officer on the scene before

you, that this is a report by Witness A?

I've heard of that, but there was no one there when I got on scene.

I'm interviewing Sergeant Cecil Smith, the responding officer to Maura Murray's

car crash.

If Sergeant Smith was driving SUV 001, as he claims, then there really is

no mystery to Witness A's sightings.

But why would law enforcement seem so curious about her account after she

reported it?

I got a call back from the police department.

They didn't say, like, are you sure you didn't see anybody?

They were like, are you sure it was 01?

I said, yeah.

I don't know the answer to that question.

Maybe that's just following up with people on that incident.

It does seem strange.

This is why it's important that we speak to Jeff Williams himself.

We've put in many requests.

But we're still waiting.

Did you ever talk to the family, any of the family members? I did.

Fred, I explained it to him, and he said, well, you know, she had an

couple days ago.

She's all depressed.

You know, she might have done the old squaw.

What's that?

Well, you know, you're depressed, and we talked about it before on our hikes.

You know, you go out in the woods, you step off the trail, and you die.

Hello. What did you make of that? That Fred knew something I didn't know about

Maura and her mental state. And when I talked to her sister

Kathleen the same day, she told me pretty much the same thing.

Maura had had an accident with her father's car while she'd been drinking

weekend before.

She got mad at Fred, got in another car and took off, left Massachusetts.

And we think she went in the woods and hid and took a bunch of sleeping pills,

and we both think she's dead.

Now I have the sister and the father both telling me that she might be dead.

That's when it got serious.

If Fred warns the police about suicide, it's in stark contrast to anything he's

told me.

Guy grabbed her walking down the road and killed her.

Probably that night.

And Kathleen was also clear that she doesn't feel that way now.

Suicide? No.

No.

Why would they tell me something in our interviews that is completely at odds

with what they told the police in the days after Maura's disappearance?

I need to sit back down with Fred and explore Maura's possible suicide in more

depth.

In the meantime...

Our noteworthy interviews with Cecil Smith and John Monahan seem to have had

effect.

Assistant Attorney General Strelzin has just informed me he's making Jeff

Williams available for an interview.

Fred, family investigator John Smith, podcasters Tim and Lance, everyone has

wanted to speak with the chief, but no one has ever been allowed.

Maggie, nice to meet you.

All right, good to see you, Jeff. Come on in. Sure.

You know, we know you probably have a lot to say about accusations, rumors out

there about yourself.

You know, I'm sure you've heard some of those.

You know, actually very limited.

I'm not a big social media guy.

What has been going around the Internet is that a woman who has been called

Witness A drove by the scene earlier than 746 when Cecil responded and says

saw SUV 001 at the scene. So the idea out there is that SUV 001 was your

vehicle. that you possibly had something to do with Morris disappearing?

I wasn't at the scene the night of February 9, 2004.

I wasn't on duty at the time of the accident.

Was SUV 001 your vehicle?

No. For patrol? No, the town never provided the chief of police a cruiser.

No. Do you know who was driving it?

Sergeant Smith was, yeah. So you didn't go by the scene?

No. No, I did not go to the scene that night.

We need to look at this through the lens of what was going on with that car. We

weren't responding to the largest missing person case in state of New

Hampshire's history.

We were responding to a simple car accident.

What do you think happened tomorrow?

You know, I've spent sleepless nights since being recontacted about this

then you start thinking about it and you start playing, Jeff, what could you

have done? What did we miss?

How did this happen? How could this happen? How could this happen?

I wish I had answered for you. I mean, I wish, I wish, God, I wish we had

answers.

I've done three interviews with the police.

Three men who haven't spoken to the media about this case since it made

news.

And all three stories match.

I feel confident law enforcement had nothing to do with Maura's

Which leads me back to Fred's statement.

about the squaw walk, I now understand why police felt suicide was an option.

Could something in Maura's life have triggered a suicidal response in a

who might have become unstable?

What were Maura's troubles?

She stole from Fort Knox.

She got caught using stolen credit card numbers to order food.

I'm meeting with podcasters Tim and Lance.

I want to know, were there any other clues pointing to suicide?

A lot of people have speculated that, you know, there was a lot of problems in

her life and she wasn't this all -American good girl.

Is it possible that the family was hiding that she was depressed or

with thoughts of suicide before?

I think absolutely there's a chance she could have been suicidal and that could

have been why she went.

I've dug into patterns associated with suicide and discovered some interesting

things. There is a pattern of people going to places that they feel connected

or that are peaceful to commit suicide.

The White Mountains she was really close to, she basically grew up there. Is

that a possibility, that she was going there to commit suicide?

Going to a peaceful area to commit suicide might have been one of her

intentions.

Inside Maura's abandoned car, law enforcement found five packs of sleeping

and, more importantly, one empty box.

Was she trying to overdose on sleeping pills and then was drinking a cocktail

with it?

Absolutely. There's a good chance that's a possibility.

So when Maura crashed Fred's car at UMass, how much damage was done to the

It's like $9 ,000 worth.

It was a pretty bad accident.

I would say there's a good chance he was angry at her. Maybe he even yelled at

her, you know, and maybe that was part of what added on to her stress to leave.

What was Fred's response to Maura crashing his car?

Could this have set her off in some way, knowing it was a huge financial burden

on Fred and the rest of her brothers and sisters?

Could the family know that Maura killed herself?

Let's talk about the weekend before Maura went missing.

You were in Amherst. Maura's on campus at a party near her dorm.

So Maura left the party with your car, and then she got in an accident.

How badly damaged was your car?

Oh, when I first saw it, it looked like a total wreck.

So how did Maura break the news to you that she got into this accident in

Hadley?

Dad,

I've got to tell you something.

Was she upset? Oh, yeah.

She wasn't bawling right then. She had to tell me.

And it was difficult for her to get it out. I mean, she could imagine.

She didn't want to disappoint me, you know.

What was your reaction? Were you upset?

Yes.

Did you yell at her?

No, not yelling, but I don't have to yell for her to know that I was upset.

That was the last time you saw her.

Do you feel guilty about the last interaction that you had with her was

upset at her?

Yeah.

She walked into the dorm, and I told her,

Something like, it's going to be all right.

It's not the worst thing in the world, but she wasn't hearing that, and she was

kind of sobbing without tears, you know, stifling and stuff. She was very upset,

walked back into the dorm. She was very upset.

Can't do anything about it now.

Why did you tell the police Maura might have gone on a squaw walk?

It was just a way of expressing myself. I should have never used that example or

something. I don't believe her for a minute.

She's way stronger than that, way smarter than that.

I know the kid.

I brought the kid up.

Who would know better?

She wouldn't want anyone to think that she was that weak mentally.

and that unable to handle it, that she just gave up.

And that is the reason I know she didn't commit suicide.

I know she didn't commit suicide.

I know the kid.

I brought the kid up.

Who would know better?

Fred may think Maura didn't commit suicide, but there's more to explore

theory that Maura could have died in the woods, either by her own hand or by

accident. I went and talked to Mr. Atwood. He said she slurred her speech

she had to lean on something while she was standing there.

It's certainly possible she was right there nearby watching everything and

waited until everybody left.

If Maura was so intoxicated she became disoriented in the woods and died, is it

possible the multiple search parties missed her?

Hi, Dad.

Hi. Maggie, nice to meet you. Art and I are meeting with Todd Bogardas at the

crash site to find out.

A 24 -year veteran with New Hampshire Fish and Game, he was the supervisor in

charge of the official search for Maura, which commenced a day and a half after

she vanished.

We also had ground teams out checking trails, roadways.

How many search and rescue missions have you done?

I'd say I've been participating and managing in the hundreds.

Wow. And how many of those are still outstanding missing people?

There are still two that are unfounded.

And Maura is one of them?

She is.

Some have been critical of the search for Maura. What is your opinion of the

search back in the day by law enforcement?

When it finally started, they waited too long, and then they had suboptimal

conditions. What was your initial involvement in the search?

Law enforcement, they had done...

Most of the cursory searching that evening as well as the next day.

Todd's team was brought in 36 hours after the crash on a clear, cold

had about a foot and a half, two feet of snow.

There was a very thin crust on the top, but if you or I were to walk off this

road into the snow, we would very easily leave a footprint.

Because the temperature remained steady and it didn't snow again, the snow on

the ground hadn't changed since the crash.

The search party used this to their advantage.

Did you have any helicopters?

Yeah, we did. We searched the immediate area and then we had them cone out and

go several miles away from the area. That helicopter is also equipped with a

FLIR unit, which is forward -looking infrared.

So had she been out there and giving off any heat signal, they would have been

able to pick that up.

After covering...

The significant area, at least 112 and outlying roads over probably 10 miles

distance. The end result was we had no human foot tracks going into the

woodlands off of the roadways that were not either cleared or accounted for.

At the end of that day, the consensus was she did not leave the roadway.

Ten miles of roadway checked just on that first official third.

And not a single footprint that could have been more of.

Today, police brought out search dogs for a second time. They scoured the area

near where 21 -year -old Maura Murray was last seen.

In case they missed something, a second search was organized, ten days after the

crash, to inspect the woods, this time with three cadaver dogs who were trained

specifically to find human remains.

So at that point, you could have been looking for a deceased person.

Yes. Those dog teams went into the woodland and searched in different

on both sides of Route 112 within the half -mile radius.

Anytime we're searching, we're looking for people, yes, but more importantly,

we're looking for clues.

And clues, you mean like clothing or a backpack or a cell phone or something?

Anything. Any human object.

Did you ever find any?

No clues to my knowledge that were directly related to Maura.

Todd's team went on to conduct three more searches, one with seven dog teams.

In the end, they searched 12 miles of roadway, one to two miles into the woods

with dogs, and even places up to 50 miles away that they knew Maura loved to

visit.

They never found a single thing related to Maura.

With her missing for six months, the official search was called off.

We've heard from people we've interviewed that it's hard to find a

woods. They're so thick. Do you agree with that?

I do agree it's hard, but I can tell you I'm not a big believer in people

levitating and going long distances. So she had to have left the track for us if

she went into the woodlands. I'm fairly confident to say she did not go into the

woods and she left the area.

Where do you believe she went?

There's a New Hampshire State Police bloodhound that was brought in on our

day of searching. That dog did run a track off the crash site. He actually

it twice.

And each time he ran a track from the crash site, it ended at the intersection

of Bradley Hill Road, which is just within sight of the crash site.

It's possible she may have been picked up by a vehicle there.

Though the search and rescue effort sounds exhaustive, some believe... The

bloodhound who tracked Maura from the crash site was actually not trailing

anything, and the cadaver dog could have missed her body in freezing conditions.

To test this out, we've invited Deb Ash and Heather Schaefer, along with their

scent dog, to the cabin.

The women run a company called Canine Alert Search Team.

which provides trained dogs to New Hampshire's police and fire departments

the state's search and rescue operations.

So can you just explain what your dogs do?

Yeah. So my dog is a wilderness air scent dog and looks for people that have

passed away.

And while my guy's looking for the live people, mostly.

So let's meet the dogs. Can I pet them? Yes, you may.

Hi, you're Angus.

Angus will track a live scent, meaning using something that belonged to Maura,

or in this case, something of mine.

How old is he? He is six and a half. Oh, wow.

Yeah. Hi, hi, hi. So this is Eisen.

He's the cadaver dog.

Deb's dog, Eisen, will demonstrate how dogs track dead bodies.

Both dogs have thousands of hours of training and have assisted police, fire,

and fish and game in finding missing or deceased individuals.

How does finding a scent work?

For human remains, within the first three months, you're probably going to

lot of odor, so it's going to be a big scent.

How about beyond three months?

There have been dogs that have found buried remains from centuries ago.

Yeah, they can smell fractions of a part per billion of concentration of scent.

Wow.

Scientists believe a dog's sense of smell is 10 ,000 to 100 ,000 times more

acute than our own.

Some researchers liken this to finding a single rotten apple in 2 million

barrels of apples.

And are they trained to only find human remains, or could they find, like,

squirrels or something like that? No. Our dogs are proofed off of those sorts

things. All we're interested in finding is the human.

I was going to ask you about the weather today. I mean, it's obviously very

windy here and cold.

Does that have an effect on the dogs working?

The cold, not so much. The wind, it does. Very much so.

Scent is no different than smoke.

So the wind's going to take the smoke, and it's going to move it.

On the day Maura went missing, wind speed near the accident site was

between 2 and 4 miles per hour.

The wind speed today is 23 miles per hour, making our testing even more

because the scent trail will be moved around by the whipping wind.

Deb has brought along a frozen human placenta for the test.

If Eisen can find it, it'll demonstrate how a cadaver dog can find a corpse,

even if only a small part remained.

You want to do it right here? Yeah.

We can use some of these branches to cover it.

We're going to hide the placenta, so Aizen has to rely completely on his

Perfect.

That's good.

It's a quarter mile away.

Let's see if Aizen can track it.

Aizen, come here.

Finish.

You ready? You ready?

Okay,

so you can see a little bit of change in behavior.

His tail starts to wag.

Come here.

Finish.

You ready? You ready?

Switch.

If the cadaver dog, Eisen, can find the small, frozen body part we've hidden in

the snow, it'll illustrate how the dogs used in Morris' search could have found

her remains, even during the coldest months of winter and ten days after the

crash when they started.

I mean, he looks like he's going back and forth and then he circles back.

Right. They do do that.

Great. Okay, so you can see a little bit of change in behavior.

Watch.

He's in odor. Do you see his tail start to wag?

Yeah. All right. See how he's bracketing back and forth? Yeah.

Oh, my God.

Wow. Wow. Amazing.

Yeah, good boy. Very good.

So what did he do? He downed. Just a matter of like five minutes.

Five or six minutes. Very cold today.

and if she had been out here, there would be so much scent, of course the

would find her.

So would you say that, you know, the grid area that was searched, would you

she's not there?

I would say she's very likely not there. Okay.

Now it's time to test the skills of Angus, Heather's tracking dog.

Unlike a cadaver dog who is looking for a dead body, a tracking dog will follow

the scent of a living person using an article of their clothing.

or something from the person the dog is tracking, which is exactly what happened

after Maura's crash.

That dog did run a track off the crash site. He actually did it twice, and each

time it ended within sight of the crash site.

Okay, so I'm going to walk down the street to where the tracking dog lost

Maura's scent.

Right, and I'll pick you up at the other end, and then we'll go up and give her

the gloves.

See what happens.

Okay. All right, go ahead.

According to the police account, I'm walking the exact path Maura took away

the crash site, and I'm going to get picked up in exactly the same spot the

police tracking dog stopped when he lost Maura's scent, right in front of this

cabin.

Okay. Good job.

Here we go.

Hey, guys.

You have your scent articles?

My gloves.

Put them in right there.

According to Fred, Maura had new gloves at the time of her accident.

I'm putting the gloves I wore at the crash site into a plastic bag.

This will give Angus his scent.

Okay. Check.

Very nice.

Search.

So now I feel how hard he's pulling. Right, he's pulling hard. Yeah, I can

it. So he's on to it.

He is.

He's looking around. Yeah.

He just totally stopped.

This look was what, you know, where'd the scent go?

Well, Angus did a great job because this is where Maggie stopped.

This is very similar to what happened with Maura.

And how long would this scent last here, do you think?

Anywhere from a couple hours after to a couple of days.

A couple of days? Okay.

This is important.

A bloodhound was put on Maura's trail a day and a half after she disappeared,

well within the window to track a strong scent.

And, unlike today, winds were calm, meaning Maura's scent trail would likely

have remained undisturbed.

Could she have walked or gone up into one of these houses anywhere around

I doubt it. If they had definite indicators that the dog was in the odor,

track, they will follow it. So because the scent was lost right here, more than

likely she got in the vehicle?

More than likely.

In the three months Art and I have been investigating Morris' disappearance,

we've talked to dozens of people, combed through hundreds of documents,

and untangled a web of theories about what happened to her.

Now, with forensic testing completed, we want to take stock and decide which

theory is most probable and determine what our next step should be.

There's five main theories.

She ran away, she died in a police cover -up, she committed suicide, she died in

the woods, or she was murdered.

You know, for running away, I think there were a lot of things going on in

life. Absolutely, yeah. When you hear Maura had gotten in trouble for identity

theft and credit card fraud, then it makes a lot of sense that she

To me, it just doesn't seem like it would be enough to make somebody run

especially for 13 years. Right, and she was pretty tight with the family, so

even if she wanted to, let's just say, get away from the father, I think she

would have stayed in touch with either Julie or Kathleen. Right.

Do you think she would run away for all this time?

No. She loved her family. If she was able to reach out and contact us, she

definitely would have.

But that didn't happen.

Maura's mother was really sick with cancer when Maura disappeared.

How hard would it have been not to come back for her mother's funeral?

That seems really impossible to not come back home for mom.

And the so -called sightings of Maura that we followed up on just haven't.

So I think we can cross that one out.

One theory that a lot of people gravitate to is a police cover -up of

Police cover up, you know, whether it was the mysterious SUV there, the 001

issue, the state police were trying to cover anything up. Everything that we

came across had a fairly logical explanation to it. Could they have done

better job?

Yes. Yeah. And I mean, they even admit we probably could have done a better

I think they feel as bad as everybody else does.

From the beginning, suicide was a big one.

But as we've looked into that, I mean, where's the body?

Right. Usually with suicide, there's a note, there's a body. She had stuff to

come back to. And right before she had left, she had done her homework

assignment. Like, it was like the night before she had sent it. If it were me,

that would be the last thing I would waste my time doing.

We were talking about spring break.

Did she seem excited about it? Yeah.

We were going to go to Myrtle Beach.

She was excited about future plans. It doesn't sound like somebody who was

planning to end their life. Okay. And then even when we talked to the police,

they said it's possible she just wandered off in the woods and died of

natural element.

I always thought that this was a possibility.

How many times have you ever seen a dead animal in the woods? So could you miss

a human being in the woods?

Absolutely. But...

I mean, with the five searches that they did, they had GPS on those dogs. We saw

the map. They did a very thorough search.

Could humans have missed this?

It's possible.

But could the dogs have?

Not from what we saw. No, I don't think they definitely would have found her.

Which means the most likely scenario is that... She would have gotten in a car

where the dogs lost the sense.

Would she accept help from a stranger?

I think she would have, especially up there.

Everyone's so nice, and we were never really on guard.

Which means that she got into a car with somebody and was met with foul play.

She was muted.

The most likely scenario is that... She would have gotten in a car.

Would she accept help from a stranger?

I think she would have, especially up there.

Everyone's so nice, and we were never really on guard.

Which means that... She was murdered.

The little hamlet town of Haywood, New Hampshire, ain't as pretty as everybody

wants to paint it to be.

If Maura was abducted and met with foul play, there is one person who has

developed leads on suspects since day one.

John Smith.

He's a former New Hampshire police officer who has helped the family for

decade.

So while investigating Morris' disappearance, you think she did fall

foul play?

Well, I mean, that is 99 % my theory, that she fell victim to foul play.

Can you tell me a little bit about the community up here? Like, what's it like

to live in the North Country?

It is friendly, and it's calm, it's peaceful.

But as with any place, there's other parts of it that aren't as pretty.

You've got people that are like hermits, you know, that don't come out of their

house for months. They don't want to talk to anyone.

There's a lot of crazy people around here that do some weird stuff.

And you've come across a lot of this while investigating Maura's

Yes, I have.

Do you think somebody in this community knows something?

I guarantee it.

One of the local rumors is that Maura was supposedly picked up at the vehicle

two or three guys. They were headed to the mountain resort.

And they grabbed her from the scene, told her that they could get her out of

there. And they ended up at this party. And during the party, Maura ended up

ODing. And they didn't know what to do.

This isn't the first time I'm hearing about young men associated with the ski

resort just 20 miles from where Maura vanished.

There was the story about some young men who worked at the

ski area over in Loon that lived and would have driven by that site on the

to work that didn't show up for work that night.

Do you think any of these party rumor stories are credible?

They sure seem fantastical and more of the urban legend, but I definitely feel

that she was abducted.

She's a beautiful girl. They were like, oh, let's get you out of here. You've

been drinking.

And she probably said, yeah, okay, let's go.

What do people up here think happened?

A lot of locals that know what their area is like believe that she was taken

she was abducted and more than likely killed.

But how possible is it someone would drive by at just the right time and kill

Maura?

Some believe it's more likely than we might think.

Here's a criminal investigator from the Missing Maura Murray podcast.

People keep saying that the probability of somebody getting in a car accident

and then just by chance that you happen upon a serial killer, that is so

unlikely. It just didn't happen when there are studies that show that two of

major factors that contribute to crime are temptation and opportunity.

There's no question that her being alone at night by herself poses the perfect

opportunity.

One serial killer looked for such opportunities.

Israel Keyes was known to prey on people who were lost and called New Hampshire

his stomping grounds.

He planted murder kits with zip ties and weapons in the region so he could be

prepared for his next victim.

He was captured in 2012.

And it's speculated he killed a dozen people, including two in Vermont.

Though some members of the Murray family thought Keyes was a possible suspect,

no connection has been drawn by law enforcement.

And he committed suicide in prison in 2012.

If Israel Keyes didn't kill Maura, could there be a different serial killer on

the loose?

There are others in the region who have mysteriously vanished.

In 1993, 10 -year -old Holly Peranian was abducted while walking with her

younger brother in Sturbridge, Massachusetts.

Her body wasn't found for three months.

Seven years later, and just 10 miles away, 16 -year -old Molly Bish vanished

working as a lifeguard at a local pond.

Her bones were found scattered in the woods three years later.

Some suspect the two girls were murdered by the same man, and more than one has

been investigated, though none have been charged.

John Smith has traced dozens of murdered and missing women to New Hampshire

alone, all within about 100 miles from where Maura vanished.

He hasn't yet found a clear connection between Maura and these cases.

But one case stands out.

17 -year -old Breonna Maitland.

Breonna Maitland went missing on March 19, 2004, approximately five weeks after

Maura did, so I started becoming very interested in Breonna's case as well.

Brianna Maitland vanished just 90 miles from where Maura disappeared.

We're with John Smith on our way to where her abandoned vehicle was found.

What were the circumstances surrounding Brianna's disappearance?

Kind of bizarre.

She'd just gotten out of work, and she drove not more than a few miles down the

road, and her vehicle was found backed into an old farmhouse.

The door was wide open and paychecks on the seat.

She was nowhere to be seen.

Should be up over this rise and on the right -hand side.

Unfortunately, it has been burned down since I was up here the last time.

This is the site of the old Dutchburn house, which is where Brianna Maitland's

car was found.

I came here to put... posters for more murray up i was looking into this case

and i was trying to make some connections because the similarities of

vehicles just being deserted and the vehicle actually backed into the house

and hard enough to put a hole into the side of the house and the vehicle was

left there so i was very interested in the whole possibility that there was

a serial killer connection

They've got a lot more information on Breanna Maitland than we have on Maura

Murray. Once they had done a bunch of investigation and they found out that

was possibly connected to the drug scene, so I think that more than likely

was definitely involved with some bad characters.

But Maura's doesn't have that. We don't have that much stuff to work with.

It's basically all dead ends in Maura's case.

But the Maitlands have denied their daughter's involvement in the drug

and some believe a connection between the cases... and one killer is still

possible.

If you think about it, both of them had minor accidents, both very young and

very nice -looking, and they both disappeared without a trace.

People around here are really upset. They want this solved.

She's not gone of her own free will, and neither is Maura.

Several people of interest have been investigated in the Breonna Maitland

but no suspects have been named.

Breonna's case, like Maura's, has gone cold.

John Smith hasn't completely ruled out a serial killer, and he has continued to

pursue leads on suspects, namely a few locals that have caught his attention.

Is there anyone else connected to this case that you have looked into or

anything else?

There's this really strange story about these two brothers who, one of them

lived in an A -frame, which is only about a mile from the accident scene.

There was rumors out there that Maura was taken and brought to this A -frame,

and then she was actually killed in the A -frame.

It's rumored that one of these brothers was involved in the local drug scene and

had a criminal past.

Could he have picked Maura up and then murdered her?

Only a mile from where she crashed.

One of them came forward, this is months after Moore disappeared, and said that

he believed that his brother could have something to do with the case.

And he called Mr.

Murray and said, I found a knife in the glove compartment that had blood on it.

They ended up getting this knife to Mr. Murray, and Mr. Murray tried to give

that knife to the New Hampshire State Police, and they refused it.

He sent it back again, and they accepted it the second time.

And do you know whatever came of the knife after that? We do not know.

Have you done any forensic testing?

Nothing that I can share publicly.

The place was vacant in 2006, so the owner of the property actually came to

and said that if we wanted to go in there, we could.

So we went in with the dogs. The dogs got a big hit on this upstairs closet

for human remains.

And carpet samples were given to the New Hampshire State Police.

And we, of course, again, don't know what happened to that sample or what the

test proved.

So could we test other carpet samples or anything in the house?

No, there's no carpet left in the house because the new owners had taken it all

out.

There may not have been carpet left, but there was something else.

We ended up going there in 2016 with Tim and Lance.

Can I keep going?

We can go up to the house up here.

We went through the whole house.

Do you think that's blood?

I mean, more than likely, it's human blood if it's up here in this room. The

claw is it.

You know, there's not going to be a bloody deer in the claw room.

We actually took wood chips from that closet, and I have those in my

If it's really blood they saw, could it be Maura's?

Have you tested the wood chips?

I haven't tested them yet, no.

Would you be open to sharing the chips with us and we could have them tested?

Yeah, I'd love to have them tested. Let's do it.

Hi, how are you? Good. Come on in.

Maggie, Art and I are meeting with Dr. Max Nuridine, a molecular geneticist and

recognized forensic DNA expert.

He'll tell us if these wood chips have blood on them at all.

If they do, it could mean Maura was murdered in the A -frame house.

And if a mix of DNA is found, it could also ID a killer.

Hi, how are you?

Max Noradine. Nice to meet you.

Art and I are with Dr. Max Noradine, a geneticist who will tell us if blood is

present on wood samples taken from a house it's rumored Maura was murdered

If it is, it could solve her disappearance and ID her killer.

Well, we have some wood chips from a house.

that was searched by canines, and they were getting a particular hit in this

closet. The walls look like they might have been paneled, and that's what these

chips look like, actually, wood paneling.

Dr. Neridian is using phenothaline, which will tell us if blood is present

all and if the chips are viable for DNA testing.

The phenolphthalein test is a color -based test, so you'll be able to see a

really bright pink color develop if blood is present.

And this is huge. This is all that is left of the house, and this could really

put to rest some theories that are out there or confirm some things as well.

Because of renovations, this critical evidence is the last to ever come out of

the A -frame house, and possibly the last remnant of Maura.

If this comes up positive for blood... You send this off to DNA right away.

Okay.

I'm going to start out with a drop of alcohol.

Phenolphthalein reagent.

I do see some paint color showing up.

Really?

For more on this case, visit Oxygen .com.