Original subtitles

DARREN: Sorry, Martin. I hit every red light on the way here, mate.

You get later every day.

Oh, come on.

You don't get no more cheerful, pal.

Just need to get home.

Oh, we all do, mate.

Long day?

They're all long days.

Any specials with these?

Giro pouch, cheque pouch.

I'll have to come back for them.

Yep.

Oh, god.

(INDISTINCT SHOUTING)

ROBBER: Give us the money!

Give us the money!

Now give us the money!

(INDISTINCT SHOUTING)

No!

(DARREN SCREAMS IN PAIN)

Please. No, no, no!

Don't do this. Don't, don't...

Stay there!

Don't look at me!

(DARREN WHIMPERS) Quickly!

Come on!

(DARREN WHIMPERS)

Come on, hurry up! Please.

Hurry up!

Go, go, go!

(DARREN SCREAMS IN PAIN)

(DARREN SOBS)

CONTRACTS MANAGER: Martin, let's talk about what happened.

The total loss to Post Office funds that day

were 54,354 pounds and 96 pence.

Well, the police were there in five minutes.

They got most of it back.

This is a Culpability Interview, Martin.

You had the parcel hatch open.

And the safe.

In accordance with Section 12, paragraph 18

of the Subpostmasters contract...

GINA: Martin? ..you're bound to take

reasonable precautions

to safeguard official cash and property.

You are, therefore, contractually liable for an amount of...

7,500 pounds?

So now the armed robbery is our fault too?

It wasn't the robbery that got me sacked.

Sacked?

What?

I'm already under investigation for the Horizon shortfalls,

and now the robbery.

Three months' notice.

Oh, Martin.

For four years of...

..every day opening that door, waiting for...

For what?

For the day to end.

(GINA SIGHS)

"Terminated for continued poor accounting performance.

"Not operating individual stock units correctly.

(OVER PHONE) "Failure to make good losses

"in a timely manner." They're just going on,

and on about the contract,

and blaming Martin for everything,

never accepting it's Horizon's fault.

How big did the shortfalls get?

61,000 pounds altogether.

They've had our savings already.

And our parents.

Alan, we've nothing left to give.

Wow.

Every time we meet, there's more of us.

There's your vegetarian ones.

Thank you. And we're always ravenous.

Have we eaten Alan?

(LAUGHTER)

That phone is a full-time job.

You know, the effects it had on the family was...

Not just me and Lis, but, you know, the kids.

I mean, we had to move their schools

because of the bullying and...

..then our daughter, Millie-Jo, she hit her teens, and...

..she just stopped eating.

It was anorexia.

I know they say don't blame yourselves,

but you do.

Yeah, of course, you do.

And nobody understands, do they?

Jo's always been very kind to us, hasn't she?

SAM: We call her Mum. JAS: Yeah.

(CHUCKLES) Well, if she's Mum, what's Alan?

Dad. JAS: We don't call him dad.

Alan's the godfather.

(CHUCKLES)

Shall we crack on?

Yeah. The Don has spoken.

You alright?

The thing is, Alan,

I'm not sure my computer was really the problem.

I just had endless power cuts.

36 of them in one day.

If you get a power cut in the middle of a transaction,

poof. No wonder it comes out wrong.

You see, my husband died, yeah,

and I took over.

It was just before Horizon was installed.

But they didn't put

the new electricity lines in properly, you see.

Oh, Pam, really?

Well, doesn't it just go to show

how absolutely bloody useless they can be

about the simplest bloody things.

I told them, when they closed me down...

(PAM STARTS CRYING) ..I said,

"If you can prove that I stole that money,

"then send the police around. Send them now."

Since then, I have not slept.

And I've been scared every waking moment,

expecting that knock on the door.

I'm sorry, I'm so sorry.

You've got nothing to be sorry for, Pam.

I'm just so...

I'm just so angry.

I hate being so angry.

If I ever say I'm going to give this up,

remind me about people like Pam.

So, to recap.

My chat with Paula Vennells

has resulted in a new Investigation and Mediation Scheme,

which will allow all of us

to apply for the compensation we deserve.

Even people like me and Jo?

Yeah, Alan's got their commitment here

in black and white.

The Post Office says,

"You may put your case through the mediation scheme,

"even if you have already received

"a police caution,

"or been subject

"to a criminal prosecution or conviction."

If we got our money back...

And our good names.

An apology, even.

Steady on.

We're just getting to the truth.

So, with your agreement,

Kay and I will defend your interests

every step of the way.

We will look into each individual case,

and fight our corner.

I know, but Alan, do you trust them?

I mean, do we trust them, really?

(MURMURS AROUND THE ROOM)

Well... (CHUCKLES)

..they're putting money and effort into it,

and it's coming from the top, so...

Well, it's got to be worth a try.

Shall we have a vote?

All those in favour?

Great.

GINA: 42 pence change.

WOMAN: Book of six first class stamps, please.

Three pounds 60.

Sorry?

(LOUDER) Three pounds 60.

For a long time, he suspected the staff,

you know, of stealing from the tills.

And the bad feeling that's still causing,

but if it wasn't them, then it had to be his fault,

like he's stupid, which he isn't.

That was before we knew about the Horizon thing.

Can I talk to him?

Well, he won't talk to me about it even now.

(EMOTIONAL) It drives me mad.

I know he's got depression.

He's a proud father,

and I think he thinks he's failed us.

Failed our family.

Gina,

put him on.

Love?

It's Alan Bates.

He wants to talk to you.

Please, Martin.

Martin?

(OVER PHONE) MARTIN: Yes.

Listen, Martin.

You're not alone.

There's a lot of us.

And there's a new scheme you can apply for.

I'm going to send you the forms.

Martin, you might get some of your money back...

Yeah...

Yeah, I can't talk to you right now.

Ma...

People are trying to help here.

I'm so sorry.

He's just... He's... It's OK, Gina.

I'll send you the forms.

But get him to apply.

It's important.

I'll try.

Bloody traffic.

Hi? Oh, I'm a little late

for a meeting with Susan Crichton?

Bob.

Good to see you.

Susan's left us.

Why?

New times, new opportunities.

Moving forward, I'll be your main point of contact.

(VOICEMAIL) SUSAN: This is Susan Crichton.

I have left the Post Office.

Thank you for not leaving a message.

Bob.

We need to talk.

I'm not bloody signing up to this nonsense.

The Post Office want me to stay on, but it's pointless.

They've unilaterally taken away our access

to the legal and prosecution files.

I can't investigate in a blindfold with both hands tied behind my back.

Alan, professionally, I just can't do it.

Bob, grit your teeth.

We can't do this without you.

I don't know why you're doing it at all.

You do know why.

I have to go to mediation because we can't afford to go to law.

You're an idiot to trust them, Alan.

I think they're mostly just a bunch of lying bastards.

I think they're wasting your time and mine.

Bob, if you walk away now,

you'll never find out which of those bastards is lying.

What they knew and when.

And you'll never find out what happens at the end of the story.

(CHUCKLES)

We must both mad.

We are.

Pint?

Big day tomorrow.

Your appeal against dismissal.

Martin?

Why don't I run you a bath?

It'll relax you. No, I'm alright.

I'm OK, I'm OK.

At least let me wash these clothes, hey?

You've been wearing them for days.

Don't you want to wash your hair, love...

No, no, stop.

..for tomorrow? Gina.

It's a big day.

All I'm saying is... Gina, Gina.

..we could just... Please.

..make a little bit of an effort to look nice.

Gina, leave me alone, please.

OK.

We've been over this.

A parcel hatch is about that big.

Then you've got a sack of mail which is...

You know how big a sack of mail is, yeah?

Once they were in with weapons,

even if the safe was closed,

what would you do if they threatened you

and said, "Open the safe?"

(RADIO PLAYING IN THE BACKGROUND)

Martin?

(DOOR CLOSES) You're off early, love.

(BUS HONKS)

Sorry.

CUSTOMER: Morning. Where is he?

STAFF: We don't know. Martin?

It's not working.

No, it's not the other one.

FEMALE POLICE: Are you Mrs Griffiths?

Can we have a word in private? No...

(SOMBRE MUSIC)

Yes.

OK.

No, I...

Hm, of course.

Thanks for letting me know.

He never regained consciousness.

Oh, god.

Gina's had to agree to switch off life support.

Oh, Alan.

Blood on their hands, now.

He had kids, Lee.

Well...

I expect he thought he was doing them a favour.

But you didn't ever...

No. No, I...

No, not really.

(LISA STARTS CRYING)

I'm sorry.

Sorry.

(BOTH SOB)

Don't... I didn't think about it.

Look, I'm sorry.

Don't you ever...

Don't you ever do that.

(BOTH CONTINUE SOBBING)

I can't have you feeling bad about this

for the rest of our lives.

I just... I could've just walked away, I...

I could have just shut the shop...

..and just put us on a slow boat to China.

I could have done that.

And they'd have chased us all the way to China

for that money, Lee.

They were never going to let go.

Hey.

I know you did it for us.

I can't think straight.

I don't know what to do.

It's really very good of you to come.

We're all so sorry for your loss.

(GINA CRIES) It was four days

before his notice ran out,

and he still hadn't told the staff he'd been sacked.

It's very hard.

And his appeal against being fined for the robbery,

it didn't come to anything,

they didn't decide one way or the other.

It's stressful.

Obviously.

I used to get so cross with him, Angela.

I never did understand the problem, and he couldn't explain it.

Just every morning, going to work, and him saying he was desperate.

He was really desperate.

Every morning, the same words, "I hate it.

"I can't bear it".

For years.

Can you imagine?

We are...

We're going to do right by you, Gina.

You can rely on us.

So, as we launch this Mediation Scheme,

I can confirm our agreement

that Martin Griffiths' case will be dealt with as a priority

by this Working Group.

Now, you've also received a request from the family

that any approaches to Gina should come through me?

Yes.

Yes, we are happy to agree to this too.

Shall we declare this Mediation Scheme up and running?

Yes.

We have a long list of cases to examine,

so let's get started.

Right then, let's start with Martin.

First thing's first.

Mr Griffiths...

RADIO BROADCASTER: Profits falling, Mrs Vennells.

Government subsidy on its way out.

That means a reckoning is on the horizon, does it not?

(ON RADIO) PAULA: It does. Absolutely.

And the whole point about this investment programme

is to make sure we have models that are commercially sustainable.

And my ambition... Yes.

..would be that within three to four years' time...

Horizon. ..the Post Office

doesn't need to take taxpayers money

to support those post offices that can be commercially profitable.

So, Paula, if you don't mind me asking.

You're CEO of the Post Office... Ask her about Horizon.

..but you're also a priest in the Church of England.

Now, how do you combine the two roles?

Very good, thank you.

Good to see you.

Thank you very much.

Just one thing. This Horizon business.

Anything in it?

I beg your pardon?

Horizon.

Some lurid allegations out there.

Well...

Well, after 2.5 years of investigations,

it is now clear that the Horizon system is robust

and works as it should.

Thank you.

"And God said to Solomon,

"'Ask for whatever you want me to give you'.

"And Solomon said,

"'Give your servant a discerning heart

"'to govern your people,

"'and to distinguish between right and wrong'.

"The Lord was pleased that Solomon had asked for this.

"So God said to him,

"'I will do what you have asked.

"'I will give you a wise and discerning heart'."

I've been preparing for this mediation hearing for months.

You will remember that I asked to see this data,

the ARQ data from your system,

so that I could see

if it matched up to my data from my till in my branch.

I kept everything, you see.

Now, you told me,

I wouldn't be capable of interpreting the ARQ data

because I was a silly woman or something.

Anyway, may I direct you to page seven?

Now, you will clearly see a two-hour period

when money alterations were being put in.

But not by me because I was serving customers.

There is no functionality in the Horizon system

to remotely access branch terminals.

I just proved there is.

Mrs Stubbs, we have to tell you now

that at this mediation meeting,

we are under no legal or moral obligation

to do anything whatsoever.

And we are working on the principle of the contract,

which says that if you lose money, you repay it.

Well...

..I'm finished with this.

Actually, I'm finished with you.

You see, I think you're lying to me.

Mrs Stubbs, calm down.

And I know you're patronising me

and I'm going to tell the whole world

what you are like.

Well, may I remind you

that you have signed a non-disclosure agreement.

I'll talk to anyone who will listen.

I'll stand up with all my papers

and I will prove you lied about this.

Mrs Stubbs, this will have legal ramifications.

Oh, you want to take me to court?

I couldn't give a toss.

(CLEARS THROAT)

The way they treat people...

(BIRDS CHIRPING)

..they are despicable, they never...

(LINE BREAKING)

Pam? (BIRDS CHIRPING)

You're breaking up.

They're lying or just stupid?

Hello?

(BIRDS CHIRPING)

(BEEP)

For a while there,

right at the start of mediation...

(BIRDS CHIRPING)

..you got close to trusting them, didn't you?

Maybe.

Despite every awful story they've heard,

despite all the work we've done,

they still don't get it.

(BIRDS CHIRPING)

They actually believe they're right.

I understand your impatience, of course I do.

But Alan, really,

four closely typed pages of complaint.

"Finding the truth

"is the last thing they're interested in."

Well, that's been our experience of their investigation.

But will you at least acknowledge that before writing to the minister,

it might possibly have been useful to raise your concerns with Paula?

Martin Griffiths is dead.

Yes, I know.

I too, am concerned about the length of time mediation is taking

but Paula is very exercised...

I'm sorry, James,

but these mediation hearings are a joke.

Well, let's just ask Paula about that, shall we?

(BELL CHIMES)

No, we have not dragged our feet.

I've had 22 people working on this full time

for more than one year.

But not a single case finalised.

And now I am told that people

are walking out of their mediation meetings.

Yes, it has taken longer than we would have liked.

As chief executive of the Post Office,

I could not put this scheme in place and not do it properly.

The system and the people who work in our branches

are too important for that.

Well, at least we can agree on that one.

Let's be clear, we still have allegations here

of miscarriage of justice.

Our lawyers advise the correct route

for challenges to criminal prosecutions

is via the Criminal Cases Review Commission

to the Appeal Court. Hold on, hold on, hold on.

No, you made promises, Paula.

You promised me personally that my constituent, Jo Hamilton,

whom I believe was wrongly convicted

and with whom all of this started

would be eligible for mediation.

Our lawyers advise that no mediation scheme

has the power to overturn a criminal conviction.

Paula, this is quite wrong.

You have broken your word to me.

And you have broken your word to the Subpostmasters.

You have broken your word to Parliament.

ARBUTHNOT ON RADIO: The Post Office has broken its word

to members of Parliament

in so many different respects.

It may, of course, be that the trade of Subpostmastering

was infiltrated by a sudden rash of criminals.

I have met a lot of these people

and I personally do not believe it.

Frankly, I no longer trust the Post Office

and will not be negotiating with it further.

It has spent public money on a mediation scheme

that it has set out to sabotage.

He says he can get some interest from the select committee.

Oh, not another talking shop.

Personally, I'm looking forward to it.

Probably more than Paula.

Is it possible to access the system remotely or not?

I hope it is that we know it is not possible

and that we're able to explain why that is.

I need to be able to say, "No, it is not possible

"and we're sure of this because of xxx."

I need the facts.

(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

That's Paula.

JO: She looks very smart.

Very corporate.

Who's the other one?

Angela van den Bogerd.

The gruesome twosome.

Don't they have any blokes at the Post Office?

I have spent a lot of the past 12 months...

Yes. Come on, Bob.

..requesting access to documents that have been challenged.

One issue we're looking into

relates to Fujitsu's office in Bracknell.

Now, we first requested documents relating to that

almost two years ago.

And we have still not been provided with those documents.

May I respond?

We did provide one year's worth of emails

that Second Sight requested.

Unfortunately, those emails that were provided

were for the wrong year.

That seems to me an amazing error.

Are there any other issues?

Probably most important would be full access

to the legal and prosecution files held by Post Office.

Paula, why don't you make those files available?

What's the problem?

The point I want to pick up first, if I may...

No, no. Answer my question.

It is the first time, personally, that I've heard that.

I'm happy to go away and have a look.

They've been told that under no circumstances

could they be given those files.

Is that right or wrong?

I...

..I do not recall that.

No. And you could piss right off.

It sounds to me like a shambles.

We are hearing from Bob,

that your organisation has been obstructive

to his independent work.

Is that right or wrong?

We have provided for every single case,

detailed, thorough, independent investigation...

Let me stop you there.

We've just heard from Bob, who is independent,

that you have not.

You are the head of the organisation.

Will you provide the information?

Yes or no?

This is the first time

that I have been asked for this information.

Yes or no? I am not aware...

Will you provide it? Yes or no?

Give me a simple answer.

Yes or no?

I am not prepared, on behalf of the Post Office

to give... Right, I think I've got my answer,

you won't provide it.

No, you have not got your answer.

You have not heard a yes or no.

I am simply saying, at the moment,

I am not able to answer your question.

Honestly, I find it quite astonishing

that you don't seem to know anything

about an issue that is so politically

and socially sensitive.

I know a huge amount about this.

I know the really important things about it.

You are the chief executive. So the buck stops with you.

It does stop with me.

I am not denying at all that there are problems.

Of course, there are,

there are problems in any organisation.

But this is about the reputation of the Post Office.

What? No, it's not.

It's about people's lives, you moron.

(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

Slaughtered her.

Paula's face.

She had no idea what just happened.

Gina Griffiths has pulled out of the mediation scheme.

Well, that can't be right.

Alan would have known that.

Unless they went to her behind our backs.

And what kind of people go back on a promise

to a grieving widow?

It's not a huge amount of money.

Not, you know, life-changing.

And in return, you had to pull out of mediation?

I've got nothing coming in, Alan.

I was gonna have to sell the house just to live.

I imagine they also got you to sign a non-disclosure agreement?

Promising not to talk to anyone about Martin's case?

I shouldn't even be speaking to you.

They rang up, Alan.

They said it was a one day offer.

If I didn't say yes by the end of the day then...

I'm sorry.

It's alright, really.

I understand.

(SLOW PACED MUSIC)

I don't blame you.

When Angela came to see me...

Angela van den Bogerd came here?

She was nice, I thought.

Kind.

Though I don't know about any of them.

I think you just...

We just cling to a notion, don't we?

That people can't be that bad.

(BIRDS CHIRPING)

(KEYBOARD CLICKING)

(PHONE RINGING)

(PHONE CONTINUES RINGING)

(BEEP)

ANGELA ON THE PHONE: Alan?

Hello, Angela.

Ah, good news.

No more reports for Bob to write,

no more need for you to trail down to London.

No more working group meetings.

A new way forward.

You're closing down the mediation scheme.

No, no, no. No, no.

No, not closing it down.

We're simplifying it.

We're taking it in-house.

We'll decide each case individually.

Closing it down.

After 18 months,

it's in everyone's interests to speed things along now,

don't you think?

Well, if that's what you want to do.

Oh...

..great.

Well, good to talk.

Bye, Alan.

Goodbye, Angela.

(BEEP)

(MOUSE CLICKING)

(BEEP)

Oh, you sods.

Suzanne?

(FOOTSTEPS APPROACHING)

(PHONE RINGING)

(BEEP)

I'm calling to tell you

that I'm not allowed to talk to you anymore.

Sacked again, hey?

That was quick.

Well, I considered pointing out that they're not allowed

to just kick you and me off the working group.

Well, they're not allowed to go around ruining people's lives

or breaking their promises

but since when did that ever stop them?

They're not just dropping us, Alan.

They're rubbing our noses in it.

They're making us destroy

or return every single document they gave us.

The whole investigation,

three years' work up in smoke.

I'm so sorry, Alan.

(SLOW PACED MUSIC)

Nice knowing you, Bob.

Yeah.

Goodbye, Alan.

Cheers.

(SLOW PACED MUSIC)

Love?

(SNIFFLES)

Oh, there you are.

They're going ahead without me, without Bob,

without anyone fighting our members' corner.

I did look at paint charts

but in the end, I think I just want white.

I'll get it done this weekend...

..that'll take my mind off it.

Your what?

Yeah, so...

(SIGHS)

..tests came back positive. (SIGHS)

(SLOW PACED MUSIC)

Hardly time to catch a cold, is there?

Let alone get cancer.

(SLOW PACED MUSIC)

You'll outlive me.

Yep.

They'll operate...

..it'll be fine, I'll live.

I want to live.

I have to...

..see some bastards go to prison.

(SNIFFLES)

(SLOW PACED MUSIC)

I'll put the kettle on.

(SLOW PACED MUSIC)

(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

(TELEPHONE RINGING IN THE BACKGROUND)

(BEEPING)

(BEEPING)

(PAPER RATTLING)

Mm.

Still here then?

(BEEP)

Tough old bird.

(BEEP)

(TELEPHONE RINGING IN THE BACKGROUND)

I've...

(BEEP)

..I've been thinking.

Oh, god.

No, no.

(BEEP)

If we can't find a lawyer by, I don't know, December?

Maybe it's time to call it a day.

(BEEP)

(BEEP)

You once said to me if I ever start talking

about giving up... That was then.

(BEEP)

Don't you dare give up on account of me, Alan.

Oh, I'm not.

It's just, you know...

12 years is long enough

to keep banging my head against a brick wall.

Don't you dare.

'Cause that would mean the last 12 years of my life

meant nothing too.

(BEEP)

OK.

New plan, then.

Maybe you could have fought me a bit harder there.

What about if we all apply, all of us,

to see everything the Post Office has got on us.

Horizon logs, investigation reports, accounts, all of it

and...

..and then if we can see them, we can...

(ALAN MUFFLED)

(INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC)

(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

You have a lovely day

and don't dawdle when Mummy comes to pick you up.

(CHILDREN SHOUTING)

Are you going to come in and help?

No, darling, not today.

(CHILDREN SHOUTING)

Bye-bye, Joshua.

Granny Jo loves you.

Bye-bye.

(CHILDREN SHOUTING)

You were only going to be helping them

make paper hats.

It's not the school's fault.

They can't let me be alone with the children

when they know I've got a criminal record.

Oh, god.

(BELL CHIMES)

Come on then. Will you stop it?

(TV PLAYING IN THE BACKGROUND)

(SUZANNE SNIFFLES)

(SUZANNE EXCLAIMS)

Hey. (SUZANNE SIGHS)

This alright?

Yeah, it's fine.

I love a toast-based meal.

(TV PLAYING IN THE BACKGROUND)

(SNIFFLES)

(TV PLAYING IN THE BACKGROUND)

Are you alright?

(TV PLAYING IN THE BACKGROUND)

Yeah.

Never was any good to me, was it?

All that defective equipment.

Never did manage to pop any babies out of it.

And, you know...

..when you think about the life we ended up having...

Maybe it's OK when children never came along?

(TV PLAYING IN THE BACKGROUND)

(SLOW PACED INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC)

(TV PLAYING IN THE BACKGROUND)

I'm here. Sorry.

I think this might be what I've been waiting for.

Exciting. POSTMAN: Signature there, please.

(BIRDS CHIRPING)

Cheers.

JO ON THE PHONE: Do they think we're idiots or what?

146 pages blacked out is ridiculous.

Can you make any sense of exactly what's been redacted?

No, I can't tell, it's all black.

But I'll tell you what's definitely not there.

The memo from my investigator.

The one where he admitted there's no evidence against me,

the one that proves it's a miscarriage of justice.

Ridiculous.

(BIRDS CHIRPING)

ARBUTHNOT: The Subpostmasters applied to see this information,

as is their right

and the Post Office think they can just refuse to share it.

It's simply inexplicable.

What the Post Office is saying is this,

that there have been about 500,000 users

of the Horizon system

since it was introduced in 2001,

involved in Post Office business

and that only a 150 people

have applied to the mediation scheme

for events spanning more than a decade.

The Post Office is saying that the idea

that there is widespread unfairness is simply not true.

Well, I would disagree.

These are people who have been pillars of the community

who've had their reputations dragged through the mud,

who've been sent to prison, some of them.

And I understand that at least one has committed suicide.

And Mrs Hamilton,

you believe that you have done nothing wrong?

I have done nothing wrong.

I did not take a penny from the Post Office.

But unfortunately, the contract which runs...

Excuse me, could you just turn the radio up?

Thanks.

..which many of us in the Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance

didn't receive a copy of,

says quite clearly,

the postmaster is contractually responsible

for the losses. That's great.

We did ask the Post Office for an interview.

No one was available.

(TENSE MUSIC)

Alan Bates.

Hi, Alan, my name's James Hartley, I'm a solicitor.

Yeah, I just heard the Radio Four piece.

I think I can help.

I always say to lawyers,

we're fighting a war

against an enemy owned by the British government.

Which means they have mighty forces

and bottomless pockets funded by the taxpayer,

while we're just skint little people.

Well, I specialise in contract law

and this contract is...

..114 pages of complete rubbish.

I only got the two page version.

It's unfair, it's out of date,

it even says you're not allowed to gamble on the premises.

Yeah, when we've got lottery terminals.

Yeah, but, you know, we all signed it

or some version of it so...

Well, yes, but...

..a contract that is not properly understood

by both parties

is not necessarily legally binding.

OK.

Look, I think it may be possible

to raise the money to fight them in a court.

There are specialist funders who are willing to take the risk

but only if there are enough of you.

We had 130 applicants to the mediation scheme

before the Post Office destroyed it.

Hmm.

Well, how many would you need?

At least 500.

(SLOW PACED INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC)

Well, I can do that.

(SLOW PACED INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC)

(UPBEAT MUSIC)

(PHONE RINGING)

(BEEP) Hello?

RICHARD ON THE PHONE: Is that Alan Bates?

Yeah, who's this?

I worked at Fujitsu.

In technical support.

I was gonna call you yesterday but I wanted to...

(LINE BREAKING)

Hang on, hang on.

You're breaking up.

I'm going to pull over.

(SLOW PACED INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC)

Hello?

(SLOW PACED INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC)

(CAR DOOR CLOSES)

(DRAMATIC MUSIC)

(SHEEP BLEATING)

(PHONE RINGING)

Hello?

Sorry, I got cut off.

No, no, I lost you.

I don't want anyone knowing I'm talking to you.

Of course, I understand.

But they're lying, that's the point.

They say there's no remote access to branch accounts

but there was a whole room

full of us inside Fujitsu.

Working overnights,

doing thousands of corrections on Horizon

while the postmasters slept.

Nobody's gonna admit it, obviously.

Are you still there?

Yes. Sorry, just getting comfortable.

Please, go on.

We were just constantly firefighting.

Coding errors, bugs, data corruption.

Horizon was much worse than I thought.

It was shocking, it needed scrapping really.

It was hard... (VOICE FADES OUT)