All language subtitles for Project UFO - 1x07 - The Forest City Incident

Ezekiel saw the wheel.

This is the wheel he said he saw.

These are unidentified flying objects
that people say they are seeing now.

Are they proof that we are being
visited by civilizations from other stars?

Or just what are they?

The United States Air
Force began an investigation

of this high strangeness
in a search for the truth.

What you are about to see is
part of that 20-year search.

How did you ever find this place?

It's one of my favorite places to hide.

Yeah, and if anything
should go wrong with the car,

we've got a two-mile
walk back to civilization.

That's what I like about
you, Ellie. You're all romance.

Hey, you guys. It's getting late, huh?

We just got here.

Mr. Gatlin?

I'm Lieutenant Carmichael, Public
Information Officer. Lieutenant. Sergeant Fitz. How

are you, Lieutenant?

Sergeant.

Welcome to Collins Air Force Base,
gentlemen. I've arranged quarters for you.

After lunch, I'd be happy to
brief you on the sighting.

Thanks, Lieutenant. It's
a little early for lunch.

I want to get out to the far city as
soon as possible. Check out the site.

I understand, sir.

You can change right here in
the hangar, the ready room,

and I'll draw a car from
the motor pool. Very good.

Is the area been secured, sir?

Right, Sergeant. The
local police had a dozen men

out there within a couple
hours after the report.

How far to Forest City? Well, it's
about 100 miles, but it's thruway driving,

so it shouldn't take
you more than two hours.

We want to stop by the high
school and talk to the students

who made out the report
before we get to Siding.

Well, you know, sir, I think you may
be wasting your time on this thing.

Why do you say that?

Well, you know how teenagers
are. Maybe they got bored,

thought they'd stir up
a little excitement.

And you think it might be a hoax, sir?

Well, it looks that way to me.

But you're from Blue Book.

You're the experts. We'll run it down.

Sometimes when kids have too much
money, too much time on their hands,

life can be very unchallenging.

And that's when the trouble begins.

About a year ago, we
found our vice principal's

compact car in the
second floor chemistry lab.

A couple months ago, some
adventuresome clowns, I call them,

released a bunch of small hot air
balloons with baskets filled with red paint.

It took weeks to clean that up.

And now this.

In other words, you don't believe
these young people saw anything?

You know, I get a feeling that
you're building up a case for these boys.

Do you really believe that
they saw a flying saucer?

Come in. It's probably the boys now.

Boys, this is Major Gatlin, Sergeant Fitz.

Hello, fellas.

How are you doing?

They're with Project Blue Book.

This is Jerry Daniels and Clay Munson.

Now, boys, you'll recall our
last conversation in this matter?

Yes, sir.

The Major's going to
ask you some questions,

and how you answer them will
not only reflect upon you,

but upon your school
and your parents as well.

Do I make myself clear?

Yes, sir.

Mr. Mathis, before we start, we'd
like to see the area beside him,

and it would be helpful if the
fellas could go along with us.

Could you arrange that for us?

Well, class will be over
in a few minutes anyway.

I suppose it'll be all right.

Thank you for your time, sir.
Pleasure meeting you. Major,

I just don't know what you expect to
find at this so-called landing site.

Simple, Mr. Mathis. What really happened
out there. I don't know about you all,

but I'm as hungry as a bear.

Good day, gentlemen.

Thank you.

What would you like?

I'll have a hamburger and chocolate malt.

Me too.

Hamburger and a cup of coffee, please.

Burger's fine, and I'd
like a double vanilla malt.

Would you like regular,
super, or super colossal burgers?

Super colossal's fine.

You must be hungry from there.

Tell us about your sighting.

How can you use the
tape recorder, Sergeant?

It's for our use only.

To make sure we get it all down in
your words, the way it happened.

Oh.

If you'd rather, we won't
use it. I'll take notes.

No, that's okay with me.

All right, tell us what you saw
last Friday night. First off,

tell us where it happened.

Well, I know it's going
to sound pretty dumb.

I mean, it's so crazy. I wouldn't have
believed it myself if I hadn't been there.

Don't worry about it. Just
tell us in your own words.

Okay.

There's this little dirt road I found off
Highway 20. It goes through Parker Woods.

Nobody ever uses it.

I figured it'd be better than Mill
Road. That's where all the kids go.

It's more private, you know what I mean?

Well, Clay and I went there last
Friday night with Marcy and Ellie.

I guess it was about 11.30.

We had just parked when we saw
this bright reddish-orange light.

What is that? That noise
is awful. Jared, please,

let's get out of here. Wait a minute.

What for? Let's go! Hey, Clay,
do you believe what we're seeing?

What do you think it is?

I think it's a flying
saucer. Oh, Jerry, please,

let's go, let's go. Are you kidding?

This is the chance of a
lifetime. Come on, you guys,

it can't be more than a
couple hundred yards from here.

Jerry, wait a minute. I'm not leaving this

car. Me neither. Okay,
you girls wait here.

Sir, would you lock the
car, please? The keys are in

there. If anything
happens, just take off, okay?

It really is a flying saucer.

Of course it is.

Have you ever seen
anything like it in your life?

Do you think it's some
kind of a code? I don't know.

Maybe they're trying to signal somebody.

Who?

Maybe they know we're here.

Maybe they can tell.

Why would they want to signal us?

I don't know.

Come on, let's get back to the car.
Wait a minute. Let's see what happens.

I don't want to wait. I
don't want to see what happens,

because it might happen to us.

Come on, let's go, Jerry.

Wait.

Let me think a minute.

Do you notice something?

What?

The crickets.

They've stopped.

Yeah.

I don't hear anything.

What do you say we get
closer and get a better look?

We don't have any choice if we stay.

I've never seen
anything like that in my life.

Looked like a giant teacup
upside down on a huge plate.

I heard about flying saucers
before. Read about them, you know.

I sure didn't think I'd ever see one.

Aside from the experience itself,
were you affected in any other way?

Well, how do you mean, Major?

Did you have any side
effects? Anything physical? Well,

I skinned my knee pretty
good when I fell, that's all.

No, sir, I feel okay physically.

I did that night, except for the
weird feeling of seeing that thing.

We'd like to have the
full names and addresses of

the two girls you were
out with Friday night.

Are you going to talk to them too?

Oh, I don't know how much they
saw. They stayed in the car.

Well, I can tell you this.

Their folks are pretty sore at it.

We were pretty late getting home.

You didn't go straight home
after the incident? No, sir.

We drove around for a
while, talking it over.

Here you are, gentlemen.

Okay, man, let's put a quick
end to this starvation diet.

You know something?

I'm not really hungry anymore.

Me neither.

Coogan, Forest City Police. Can I
help you, gentlemen? I'm Jake Gatlin.

This is Herrick Pitts, Project Blue Boat.

Hi. Been expecting you. I'm Charles
Hamlin with the Forest City Outlook. Hello.

How are you?

Well, we've kept it
pretty well restricted.

Thank you, Lieutenant. Let's get her here.

We're fairly isolated out here,
but when a story like this gets out,

they're going to be
coming from miles around.

Sightseers, you know.

You boys want to wait here?
This won't take too long. Major,

I'd like to talk to you
for a minute and ask a few

questions if it's all
right. Sure, go ahead.

How does the Air Force feel
about this particular sighting?

You think those kids dreamed it all up?

That's why we're here, Mr. Hamlin.

Well, what's your
opinion, just off the top?

We try not to give opinions off the top.
We check out all the information first,

just like you do before
you print a story, right?

Just as soon as we've
completed our investigation,

we'll be happy to give you a
full briefing. Fair enough?

Fair enough, Major.

Look at this depression.
There's two more just like this one.

Taking any measurements?

Just about two.

Diameter of impression, 36 inches.

Depth?

Depth of impression, 3 inches.

Let's get a penetrometer reading.

Hand me a plastic bag.

Here you go.

And it makes the soil structure
slightly granular. More clay than sand.

The lab will tell us
for sure. 8,000 times 3.

Well, check the other two
depressions, and if they read 8,000,

Hey, Major, that tree.

Something got to it all right.

Pretty good pop to shear
off a branch like that.

Sassafras tree, usually when they
break, they splinter into a thousand pieces.

This is a fairly clean break.

Almost like it'd been cut through.
Took a pretty good force to do that.

Take a look at this fresh.

It's like molten glass,
doesn't it? Yes, sir.

It'd take a lot of heat to turn the sand
in this soul of glass if that's what it is.

It's glass, so the next
thing to it takes over 3,000

degrees Fahrenheit to
turn sand into glass.

Looks like a popular place to camp out.

Lieutenant?

Yeah?

You had any weather in this area recently?

What do you mean, Sergeant?
Heavy rain, thunderstorms.

No, the weather's been
beautiful the last month or two.

What were you thinking, lightning?

No, sir, not anymore.

Give me your tape.

What do you read?

20 feet even.

All right.

Let's get some pictures and get
everything to right path as soon as possible.

You got everything you need, Major?
Just about. Take another 15 minutes.

We'd appreciate it if you'd maintain
security in the area for another two days.

Sure. No problem.

Where'll you be staying while
you're here in Forest City? Oak's Lodge,

over on South Columbia Drive. You
know, I question those kids myself.

And I gotta say that their story
certainly leaves a certain amount to be desired,

don't you think? You did
speak to them, I assume.

We have. Yeah, it's pretty wild, huh?

Unreal!

I told old Ham here that I
thought they were probably

watching television and
going to the movies too much.

I don't imagine you've had
time to read our local gazette.

But along with the police department
here, we've got it down as a hoax. That's so.

And you know more than we
do. Oh, come on now, Major.

You've got to know that
it's a complete hoax.

I'll tell you what we know so far.

The top of one of your trees has been
sheared off as though it were sawed.

Three indentations in the earth,
and they measure 36 inches around,

three inches deep. We
figure we take a combined weight

of 26,000 pounds to
create those impressions.

A fourth larger circular
indentation with evidence

of molten glass in and
around the perimeter.

Just exactly what are you saying, Major?

If it's a hoax, somebody went
to a hell of a lot of trouble.

I guess that takes care of everything.
The courier just left with all the samples.

You should have them tomorrow morning.

Right.

Put a rush on it. We like the
results as soon as possible, okay?

Right, and thanks.

Some mashed potatoes
left in the container.

Nothing better than cold mashed potatoes.

Good evening, Sergeant. When
did I come in? Not at all.

How are you, Mr. Hammond?

Confused, I'm afraid. I've got
something here that I think will interest you.

Here, take a look at them.

Where'd you get these?

A guy dropped them by my office about
an hour ago. Lives over in West Forest.

That's in a neighboring
county about five miles from here.

Did he give you the negatives?

No, just the prints.

He wants us to run them and
then put them on the wires.

You have the man's name and address?

Yeah, it's right around the
envelope. I figured you'd want them.

We'll take a run over
there tomorrow morning.

Well, what about all
of this, Major? I mean,

how do we figure it now? How do you mean?

Well, according to Hadley, that's
the guy that dropped off the photos,

according to him, he says this
proves the boy's stories without a doubt.

How's that?

Hadley claims he took those
pictures last Friday night.

I've told Marcy a dozen times not to
park in out-of-the-way places with boys.

And I'm surprised that you, Ellie,
your father's told you the same thing.

I understand your concern, Mr. Corning,

but the girls seem to be the only
witnesses so far to the sighting,

and we'd like to ask them some questions.

What sighting?

You don't believe all that stupidity.

We'd like to hear what
the girls have to say about

the incident last Friday
evening. Suit yourself.

I'm going to have a drink.

I've listened to this
fairy tale over and over.

Come on, honey.

All right, you want to
tell us what you saw?

Well, we really didn't see too much.

Just a bright reddish-orange glow.

It was weird.

It came out of the sky and
landed out in the woods someplace.

We never got out of the car.

We didn't know what it was.

How were the boys when
they got back to the car?

They were dirty, and their
clothes were kind of torn.

And they were out of breath, like
they'd been running or something.

You wouldn't believe us
if we told you. Jerry,

what was that thing and all that
noise we heard? Come on, start.

Jerry, what was it? Tell us.
We'll tell you later. Come on, Jerry.

We've got to get out of here.

We drove around for a
while until Jerry and Clay

calmed down enough to
tell us what happened.

Did you believe their story?

Yes.

Well, at least we did that night.

But after Marcy and I talked it over
the next morning, well, I don't know.

What changed your mind?

Well, it's just that
everything seemed so weird, you know?

Yeah, like something out of a flick.

But you did see the reddish orange light.

We saw that all right.

Only now I'm not even sure.

How do you mean that?

Well, sometimes it's easier just to forget

about something than to
try to explain it, you know?

I guess what we're trying to say is that

What my dad says. A fairy tale.

I figured they'd send
somebody out here sooner or later.

Glad you're here.

Stu Hadley. Hello, I'm Jake Atlin.
This is Harry Fitz. How are you?

Good, how are you?

Well, you've seen the pictures.

Yes, sir.

What'd you think?

Very interesting.

Very interesting?

Come on, guys, that's a flying
saucer if you've ever seen one.

The reporter over at the
Forest City Outlook said those

pictures ought to be in
every paper in the country.

I'm sure they will, when he
releases them to the wire services.

You mean he hasn't released it yet?

No, sir, not yet. We asked him
to hold up on it for a while.

Well, I don't understand why you did that.

In fact, I'm not sure you have the
authority to do that, am I right?

Mr. Hadley, would you
mind telling us exactly

how you happened to take these pictures?

Oh, I get it. You think I faked them.

No, sir, we didn't say that.

But we would like to determine
the validity of the photographs.

Sure, I can do that.

I got nothing to hide, you know.

It was last Friday night.

I was up at Crystal Lake duck
hunting, got there about 4 a.m.

Anyway, on the way back, I
decided to take a shortcut,

Highway 20 through Whitesburg,
borders right along Parker Woods.

Funny thing is, though, I wasn't scared.

Not during the time it was there. I
just had to get a picture. That's all.

But then after it left,
my hands started shaking.

It was quite an experience.

You people are downright
non-believers, aren't you?

Yes, I usually carry a
camera with me because like

millions of other people,
I enjoy taking pictures.

How is it that these are
black and white photos?

I thought not everybody
used color these days.

Well, I'm experimenting
with sunrises right now,

and black and white film
happens to be quicker than color,

so that's what I use for
the effect I want to get.

Do you have the negatives?

Yes, I have the negatives. Would it
be all right if we borrowed them?

What for? You've got
the prints right there.

Yes, sir, but we'd like
to send the negatives to

our laboratory at
Wright-Patterson for analysis.

I'll get them for you.

I'd like to borrow the
camera, too, if we can, Mr. Hadley.

That's in the truck
glove compartment. Do me

one favor, will you?
Keep the lens cap on it.

That's a brand-new German
lens, and it's very expensive,

and I don't want it scratched, okay?

Yes, sir.

Thank you.

I'll get the negatives.

Thanks. We'll get these back
to you as soon as possible.

And when you do, Major, I think
an apology would go along with it.

A very large apology.

Because you really make a
guy feel like a criminal.

Look, Mr. Hadley, if
these negatives check out,

they might prove more useful
in more ways than you know.

What if they don't?

Then no apology is necessary, is it?

¶¶

Major, can I speak to you for a minute?

I was wondering if you got any
results back from your lab. Not yet.

We expect to hear
something about tomorrow.

How long have you
fellows been working on this

job, investigating
UFOs? A handful of years.

As you probably had a look
at a few hundred cases, huh?

Is this one a hoax?

What's your gut feeling about it? One
thing about gut feelings we found, Lieutenant.

Sometimes they turn out to be just gas.

Yeah, well, I was asking this
for a reason, though, Major.

I'm getting a lot of pressure from
downtown. They wanted a rest mate in this case.

Those two boys, Jerry and Clay.

Why? For what reason?

Well, because the
people in this community are

getting a little fed
up with teenage pranks,

and I can't say that I blame them.

It's very aggravating and very expensive,

and it keeps the police
department from being

able to work on other
more important cases.

But we don't know that what
we're dealing with is a prank.

Yeah, but we don't know that it isn't.

I'm sorry, I'm afraid we're going to
have to make a stand in this case.

The people here just want to make
an example of those two boys. Well,

it's your story, Lieutenant.

Just make sure you're not doing the
right thing for the wrong reason.

Boys, I have patiently
listened to your story.

I find it totally incomprehensible.

Jerry, you've been here before.
I let you off with a reprimand.

I can only assume that
you chose to ignore it.

This time I want you
both to be aware that we

will no longer tolerate
these juvenile antics.

What we do here today
will set an example for

the other young people of this community

as to what they can expect if they
persist in creating this malicious mischief.

This court fines each of
you $15 and sentences you

to four weekends of
cleanup work in Parker Woods,

where you chose to
create this grand deception.

Your Honor, may I approach the bench?

State your name and your interest.

Jay Catlin, Major, United States Air
Force. I'm here on government business.

Good to see you, Major.
Thank you, Your Honor.

Sergeant Fitz and I have been
investigating circumstances surrounding this case.

As of this point in time,

we've been unable to make any
determination as to the validity or non-validity

of the reported sighting of
an unidentified flying object.

We respectfully petition that the court
delay execution of the sentence until

our laboratories have the
opportunity to fully analyze all the evidence.

Major, are you telling this
court that there is a possibility

that a flying saucer
actually landed in Parker Woods?

All we're saying, sir, is that it's
premature to label the sighting a hoax.

I see.

How much time would you need?

At least 48 hours, Your Honor.

All right, Major.

The United States Air Force is
hereby granted 48 hours from this date.

Execution of this sentence will be
delayed until Thursday, November 21, at 4 p.m.

Court is recessed until 2 o'clock.

Major Gatlin.

Thank you. Thanks a lot. Don't thank
us. You've got a reprieve, not a pardon.

Yeah, well, we know that, but
we want to thank you anyway.

Okay.

All right.

Major Gatlin, we represent the
Forest City High School Science Club.

We wonder if we could talk to
you for a minute? Sure, go ahead.

We think that Jerry and
Clay are getting a rough deal.

We really believe they did see
something, that it wasn't a prank, you know.

Go on.

Well, what we'd like to do is conduct
our own investigation of the landing site.

Maybe we could help Clay
and Jerry. As it stands now,

the police won't even let us in the area.

We appreciate you wanting to help,

but we're trying to preserve that
location out there in case we have to double back.

Well, if there's anything we can
do, we'd be glad to help. Thanks.

We'll keep that in mind.

Oh, one more thing, Major.

When you do reach a conclusion
on Clay and Jerry's UFO sighting,

Could you come to the school
and tell our science club?

Would that be possible, sir?

We'll try, if we have the time.

You do know why, don't you? No, why?

Because we know that
Jerry and Clay aren't lying,

and we want the whole school to know.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you.

Can you remember when you were that young?

Yes, sir, sure do.

Hadn't been that long ago.

We did things a little different six
miles when we took a girl out on a date.

How was that?

We parked in the peach orchards.

That way if things got kind of dull,
there was always something to eat.

THE END

You were right about that soil out
there, sir. It tested highly granular.

And the weight factor proves out.
The lab figure's 27,300 pounds.

No sign of radiation in the area.

You come across the report on
that broken tree out there, sir?

No. You got it there?

Yes, sir, I do.

Anything?

Yes, sir. Seems I made a mistake
when I whiffed that bark out there.

You did? Yes, sir.

Seems that wasn't a sassafras tree.

What was it?

Pecons, sir.

But they're long-grained and brittle.

They break the same way, sir.

Obviously.

That's correct. And you want
to know what the trouble was?

You can't smell tree bark?

No, sir.

I had a slight cold, and I
didn't know it at the time.

Okay.

Did you see this yet?

What's that, sir?

Listen, the Parker Woods
glass sample under analysis

proved to be an example
of very primitive glass,

unlike the type manufactured today.

This type of material cannot be
factored from known elements utilized

in the making of glass as
we know it in this century.

It defies analysis comparison
to present-day technologies,

suggests reexamination of site to
determine beyond reasonable doubt.

This substance could not be propulsion
residue. A machine that's propelled by glass?

Or one that leaves behind a
byproduct of crude glass.

Sir, is it possible
that we might be the first

to find out what we've
all been looking for?

Positive physical evidence?

You want to know the truth?

Yes, sir.

I don't know.

Sergeant. Mr. Hamlin.

I appreciate you calling me, Major.
We're about to leave for Hadley's place.

I thought you might like
to go along. Oh, thank you.

I would.

What's your opinion?

Do I send those photos
to the wire services?

We'll let you be the judge.

Hey, Hamlin, how are you?

Shane, turn that off.
Good jazz, huh? Yes, sir.

Excuse me, sir. I left your
camera out in the car. Okay. Well,

I've already gotten two calls from New
York papers just from the Outlook story.

They're pretty anxious back there to
print my pictures. They may still want to.

What do you mean, still want to?

Let's go over a few things, Mr. Hadley.

What kind of things?

Oh, I get it.

You probably want to bury
those pictures in your files.

You don't want to create a panic.

That's it, isn't it?

I hear the Air Force
has got a ton of stuff

like this that they
just don't dare release.

You're closer to being
right about that than you know.

Let us show you something. Let's take a
look at this first picture. You know, sir,

this is a very good picture of the
saucer, since there is no point of reference,

nothing to compare the object
with, you know, to determine its size.

Notice anything strange
in this photo, Mr. Hadley?

Right there, you know what that is?

It looks like an imperfection
in the negative to me. Yes, sir.

You're right about that.

Let's look at this next photo.

This is a blow-up of the
imperfection, as you call it.

This picture represents
a magnification blow-up.

What you see there is
really not an imperfection,

but rather one of God's created
perfections, a sycamore leaf.

Well, I don't know how in the world
that could have got in the negative.

We do, sir. You put it there.

Now let's look at this last photo.

We dug into this
particular negative with a system

that we refer to as
dense overlay filtration.

I never heard of that.

No, sir, but the military has.

Comes in handy for locating
military troop concentrations at night.

Take a look, sir.

What you see there is really a
clear indication of a strand

of monofilament used to
suspend the flying saucer.

That, coupled with a sycamore
leaf, which gives us positive scale,

tells us exactly what your UFO was and is.

We don't know for sure
what kind of rig you used,

but it could have been a
stepladder or a tall, inverted L-scaffold.

And this, sir, is your flying saucer.

And you do have a sycamore
tree outside your garage.

Tell me, why, Hadley?

Why? Because I love kids.

My wife and I can't have any,
and she doesn't want to adopt any.

When a kid gets in trouble, I care.

Those two boys who were involved in the
sighting, Jerry Daniels, Clay Munson,

you were trying to help them?

I guess the Irish put it best. Just
the great fool of the world I am.

Hiya, Major!

Sergeant!

Hiya, Ham!

I'm glad I caught up with you.

I've got something important.

I don't know where you are in
that sighting investigation,

but I thought I overheard
you say something about

glass out there at Parker Woods
the other day. Am I right? Yes, sir.

The blue-colored material around
the large depression out there.

I thought so.

Well, I don't know what this means,

but I'm going to turn this over
to you for whatever it's worth.

What you got, Lieutenant?

I was talking to my father the
other night. He's in his 70s.

And he's kind of a Forest
City historical buff. Well,

he's the one that put me onto this. So I
went down to the city planning office,

and I pulled a copy of this plot for
you. Because this is proof, if you need it.

Proof of what?

Of the existence of a factory
that stood on almost exactly

the same spot where that UFO
was supposed to have landed.

Now they closed that plant down in
1896. Tell us it was a glass factory.

How'd you guess?

We have the final results of the
tests from our lab at Wright-Patterson,

and we've been asked to
share those results with you.

Mr. Mathis was generous enough
to provide us with the time.

Sergeant Pitts? The three smaller
indentations, so-called landing pod impressions,

were certain that no tool
created those depressions.

The penetrometer and soil
compaction analysis indicates

an object of over
27,000 pounds rested there.

Oh, great. Am I to understand that

These boys actually saw a UFO,

and that you Air Force
people believe that something

from outer space
actually landed in those woods?

Let me clarify that, sir.

We believe that Jerry and Clay did not
manufacture the evidence that was found.

We believe they did see something.

We do not know exactly what. Major
Gatlin, what about the broken tree,

the soil depressions,
and the blue glass? Now,

wouldn't that be
considered evidence? Proof?

You're partially right.

Those elements do exist, but we
cannot prove what caused them,

and we cannot disprove their existence.

In what category would the Air Force
put this particular sighting, Major?

It will be officially
listed as an unknown.

Want me to drive?

Yes, sir. You do the
flying, I'll do the driving.

I always like my engineer well-rested and
relaxed. I'm going to take you to the car.

They're gone.

They're gone.

You don't think we should have told them?

Something I'll never forget.

Will you?

Nope.

Come on, let's go, Jerry.

What do we do now?

They know we're here.

Let's make a run for it. We stay
here and they're sure to get us.

Come on.

And we shouldn't have told them.

Nope.

Why?

What's the game?

They wouldn't believe us.