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Joe Rogan podcast check it out The Joe

Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan

podcast by night all

day all right we're rolling what's

cracking oh man my back just now just

all these chair fantastic what is going

on with your back you you you have like

you've had back issues in the past right

we talked about that the last time you

came on well I was born scoliotic you

know yeah so it's like I bought just I

just bought my own Penal so I could

click the [ __ ] you

remember here take all devices away from

I can't believe you

remember you remember clicking on the

pen that's hilarious oh yeah I'm I'm a

fidget you know so I uh let me take

everything

off it's it's not good oh yeah born born

slightly scoliotic and then of course I

banged myself up over the years you know

of course what can you what when the do

they do anything other than surgery for

people with scoliosis they do because I

don't want to do surgery once you start

opening stuff up and fooling with it

yeah there's no going back especially

the back yeah back's a rough I never met

anybody that had like fusions or

anything where it turned out good no and

like hypocrates you know the father of

medicine he said in any ailment look

first to the spine and it was like he's

kind of right it all emanates from the

from the core well if your back is

[ __ ] up everything's [ __ ] up yeah

you know no matter how strong your arms

and legs are if your back is [ __ ] up

you're you're in trouble yeah that's

true your brain everything everything

goes to hell well you're in pain all the

time yeah people with back problems like

they can't think straight because you're

always like you know it's always there's

a gift to not thinking straight

H tell me tell me more I want to know

well it actually takes you down some

pretty weird paths you know um uh if

you're happy all the

time I don't know you don't have you you

don't have to strive to find thoughts to

make yourself happy right so it's like a

um it's a good it's a good uh it's a

good predisposition I think I agree to

that yeah I think being happy all the

time is a it's kind of an unlikely

scenario no nobody is yeah no but we all

want it you notice we all yearn for it

there's just Inc that's the only thing

we all want right just happiness little

peace well it's also we're shown it like

in you know television movies like we're

shown happiness as this goal like seek

happiness sure should be happy all the

time happy should never be upset yeah

well it's not realistic it's completely

unrealistic however it's nice to have

those little Journeys through ART where

you can actually explore those things

you can explore your IDs you can explore

happiness and uh so you can experience

the opposite I look at situations around

me and I I generally feel pretty

grateful uh from what some people go

through I'm grateful and everybody's got

their crap you know but uh like this

morning for example I would be surprised

if my home is still there yeah we were

just talking about that the Palisades is

on fire yeah my friend Tom Tom soraa his

house is gone yeah is where he used to

live he sold it luckily yeah I have a

son he's in the sort of volunteer

firebrigade Milo I call him the mayor of

Malibu and he's running around and I

asked him how's things looking there

Milo he says not good pops he says your

neighborhood and he sent me a a video of

my neighborhood and it's INF Flames it

looks like an inferno so yeah do you

think this will get you out of

California finally yeah maybe you know

where you going to go oh I don't know I

got a place in Costa Rica I love it

there yeah Costa Rica's nice yeah I

bought there many years ago and it's

it's a it's in a real nice spot it's not

too touristy or you know dirt roads so

it's off the Beaton does it feel safe

out there pretty safe I think look it no

place is safe I mean you got the darang

down there you know's that it's kind of

in the um what's the next country down

Panama and you and and there's this no

man's land where the Colombians come

through and it's like you know all kinds

of dirty dealings in the jungle with you

know who knows you know drugs and mules

and yeah you know

yeah so um you know it can be dangerous

and I've heard of danger happening there

you know you hear about somebody getting

chopped up by a machete and Costa Rica

is actually it's actually a cool place

because it it never had a culture of

death like a lot of the Central American

countries did they have a culture of

death you know even Mexico I mean they

used to you know tear people's hearts

out and pyramids all that sort of stuff

Aztecs were like the Romans the Mayans

were like the Greeks they all sort of

dabbled in some stuff um Costa Rica

always had a policy where

they was like the switzland of Central

America they emphasize education and

health and everybody's literate and it's

it's kind of interesting in that way but

it deals with its own little troubles

yeah well like every country you know

anywhere down in that part of the world

MH it's just like there's so much

sketchy [ __ ] going on all around you

yeah there can be yeah yeah one has to

uh be forewarned forearmed all that you

know so I have a a nice place down there

yeah I have some friends that have a

place in Mexico and I'm always like

don't you ever

worry yeah I worked in Mexico a couple

of times I was down there and it was uh

it was in BARC Cruz and apparently you

know people were rolling heads into bars

and stuff like that you know rival GRS

and stuff and they said I'd go for a

walk you know and uh they'd sayou crazy

going for a walk you'll get kidnapped I

said I'm not going to get kidnapped I'm

the guy that pays you're going to get

kidnapped and I'm not going to pay your

Ransom so it's

like I never felt insecure in that way

and you know if something's going to

happen it's going to happen yeah you

know if your numbers up I know I used to

watch guys who do what I do for a living

and they'd have a fance of bodyguards

around them you know and like for

security and stuff but and I used to

have that stuff for a little while but n

doesn't make any difference you're going

to be

okay okay or not or not right until

you're not until you're not and

everybody's going to be okay until

they're not yeah I got into dodgy

situation one night and I acted crazy

yeah yeah what happened if you act crazy

everybody leaves you alone especially if

you are a little crazy you know they

know that you're in a stress mode so you

actually get angry I if if I feel like

I'm threatened I get angry which is what

happens and then you get really in

people's faces and they think this guy's

crazy but all the old cultures thought

that like when there were people

traveling across the Great Plains to go

west you know if you acted nuts they'd

leave you alone because they didn't want

your evil spirits oh so what happened

with you oh nothing they left me alone

but where was this oh man I was in a bad

neighborhood I um was it was when I

first got into LA and I was to go to

dinner with Costa Gabus he was a Greek

director I uh went the wrong way and it

was before they had you know phones with

like right you know all that stuff so

Thomas guide it was the Thomas guide

anyway I wasn't guided well by Thomas I

ended up in the wrong place and then my

muffler fell off and I was driving a

Mercedes you know pretty nice sporty car

you know and I thought oh and I had the

wife in the car and I pulled into a side

street the sun was going down and as I

got out of the car I thought oh I got to

fix this Muffler I can't just drag it

people started coming from houses

and they came up to me and and I saw

them coming in the rearview mirror and

uh I jumped out of the car and got in

their face and I said what the [ __ ] do

you want cuz I thought I felt threatened

right and um and the guy said man I'm

just looking for some money you got any

money so I was being mugged and it was

like I thought I'll think about it when

I'm [ __ ] finished like you

know I opened the trunk and this is the

weird part Joe I I will never quite

understand this I opened the trunk to

see what I could find to help me put the

muffler back on and sitting there the

only two things in the back of the trunk

was a pair of wire cutters and a coat

hanger it's exactly what I needed and I

don't know why it was there that's weird

isn't it that's very weird so you use

the coat hanger to wire up your muffler

yep I cut a piece of wire wired the

muffler up the whole time more guys are

coming Jesus Christ and they're standing

behind me and I'm feeling like oh and um

anyway I get up I finished the muffler

slam and I'm acting mad and crazy the

whole time and they think this guy's

nuts and I get back to the car and my

wife gives me a handful of cash and I

thought what's this she says it's just

wives and ones give it to her so I threw

it and drove off

but it was like it was looking hairy for

a minute and you never know what year

was this oh my God back in the '90s

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Joe Rogan seriously get on this so

things are more dangerous now I think

they are yeah I think so for sure yep

yeah we were just talking about the

Wildfire situation and how crazy it is

that they spent 24 billion dollars last

year on the homeless yeah and what do

they spend on preventing these wildfires

Zer Z Zip Zip and in 2019 I think Nome

said you know I'm going to take care of

the forest and maintain the forest and

do all that kind of stuff he didn't do

anything didn't do anything and then on

top of that they cut the water off yeah

that's right yeah it's all funny and

then I think all our tax dollars

probably went for Gavin's hair Gill I

don't know but it's like you know it's

sad it's like the place is just on fire

well the whole state is just so poorly

managed it's so conf it's so frustrating

and confusing and then he gets on TV and

pretends like everything's great mhm and

California is the best we have the best

state we have the most amazing economy

and like you're out of your [ __ ] mind

dude you've ruined the state personally

ruined it well it's the same team that

was up in San Francisco and they came

down to LA and they're doing what they

did in San Francisco and yeah San

Francisco is kind of like apocalyptic

now you know yeah I went there and it's

like people every you know homeless you

know it's just it's a mess it's just

unbelievable that Society can crumble

that quickly mhm really unbelievable it

doesn't take long no yeah I read a book

once by Jared diamond called collapse

you ever read that book yeah yeah crazy

right it says all the things you need

for a civilization to cave in and

collapse and a lot of the things are

present all those ear marks the

precursors of a collapse they're present

in our time so it's it's an interesting

observation yeah and we're no smarter

than our grandparents I don't think well

that brings me to one of my favorite

movies of yours is Apocalypto yeah you

know when the Mayans were running things

like who could have ever thought when

they had such an incredibly

sophisticated Society unbelievable

construction like the stuff that they

had built that one day you just walk

through there and there's nothing

nothing nothing and nobody in fact

there's something because it's

interesting somebody was flying by what

they thought was a volcano in the 30s

some Buzz Boy and he thought hey that's

somebody built that wait a minute

there's 4X 8T bricks that's not that's

man-made and it is literally the biggest

pyramid in the world it's bigger than

the ones in Egypt and it's in Guatemala

yeah we talked about that the other day

yeah it's a recent discovery right well

not that recent I was U maybe 20 years

ago I visited I went down there with the

uh with the archaeologist a guy named

Richard Hansen who's from or some place

and he's down there with his family he's

been working tirelessly for like 30

years trying to extract this preclassic

city from the jungle and there's not a

bunch of tourists all the pyramids in

tial would fit inside the one big

pyramid in El Mirador really yeah it's a

monster and so that tells you that the

preclassic civilization was bigger and

grander and more sophisticated than the

civilizations that came after it yeah

pretty interesting well it is

unbelievable how like when when you the

accounts of like people that visited

Mexico and visited the Aztecs like what

the markets looked like and how insane

it was and how gorgeous it was and then

just yeah disease yeah disease or I

don't know if it was disease or what I

think the people were pretty

dissatisfied it would have been hard for

uh Cortez with his limited numbers to

actually take over a civilization like

that unless they kind kind of happened

upon a civilization that was pretty

dissatisfied with the way things were

going yeah so I think they had people to

help them sort of Rebel when when you're

making a movie like Apocalypto I mean

that's a crazy undertaking you're making

an entire movie where there's no English

in it at all and it's a blockbuster yeah

yeah it's cool it was fun that's one of

the best movies man it's a [ __ ] great

movie well because I think it's scary

because nobody's speaking your language

and you're looking at indigenous peoples

who you and because they're not speaking

a language you totally kind of buy it

and you can buy the horror and and the

Primal nature of of the story you want

to tell and and really it's just a

series of fears one after the other you

know being chased by you know scary guys

or W eaten by wild animals or you know

hit by blow you know blow gun it's all

like uh a series of these things but I

think basically I was doing was trying

to talk about our time

now and the civilization that we live in

and how close are we to collapse and

what are the things that lead to

collapse you know it's environmental

stuff it's um Human

Sacrifice yeah I mean we do that kind of

we do yeah yeah we do we just dress it

up Y when you find out medications are

killing people and they keep prescribing

them and they do it for money that's

kind of sacrifice when you find out that

Wars are irresponsible they're not just

Wars not just no they're they're for

money we send our young people over

there to to die MH sometimes for good

reasons sometimes for not I mean I have

I love this I love the warrior I do I

love the warrior but I hate the war man

yeah and um well we hate we hate an

unjust War yes absolutely yeah yeah

anyway it's uh yeah it's a mess

but the human sacrifice aspect is is

Alive and Well in our society I think it

really is it's just dressed up in a

different way yeah MH yeah rhetoric

around it but they've always been able

to justify it like an Apocalypto was

like yeah so the crops will be better

hey we'll just you know yeah kill a few

people yeah and then I had all these

people come out of the woodwork hey

we're we're archaeologists and

scientists and that never happened so

there's this revisionism about it too

that it didn't happen but there are

accounts from the time where yes people

did witness these things and um and of

course I had a bunch of battery of

archaeologists and scientists and

professors on my own that say yeah well

this stuff did happen and here's the

here's the you know the depictions of it

in paintings and images and you know so

it's like it did happen so when you when

you set out to make a movie like that

like what first of all what brings you

to that did you get the script first

first like what was it an idea that you

had in your head it was uh it just came

from in here and I was working on

something a buddy of mine said so what

do you want to do next I said ah man I

want to direct something and I always

want to direct a chase film he said what

kind of Chase I said a foot chase he

said what I said yeah people chasing you

I mean there's something kind of Primal

and scary about a foot chase and I think

in order to have a foot chase you can't

have a society where there's any kind of

cars or anything anything like that

otherwise you have a car chase but I

want to film a foot chase like it's a

car chase and uh he said H I said what

are you thinking I said well I'm

thinking if you go back before Columbus

discovered America you know and it's

like uh people assumed that Columbus

discovered America and then life began I

said I want to know what was happening

right before he got there before he got

there and I said so I had this idea that

you see all this stuff going on and

there's no time period on it and then

all of a sudden you date it by the

arrival of Europeans and I thought it's

kind of like the rodling you know Planet

of the Apes in here it's like it's kind

of a cool cool ending and he said oh wow

and he said where do you think Columbus

landed I said why don't let's look so I

looked up and the first peoples he

encountered were Mayan trading canoes

off the coast of

Honduras and I thought cool what was

happening in Honduras you know and you

look at these towns and and pyramids and

temples and stuff at that time and then

the story was born from there and of

course then we read the book by Jared

Diamond collaps I read the Mind Bible

the popal Vu and you know tried to delve

into what they believed and and what

their civilization was like and they had

Concepts as we do of Heaven and Hell of

punishment or reward you know it was a

little different quite a bit different

actually in fact when I went down

to uh the arch olical sites at Hill

midor they dug something up and it was

like well what is it and they said we

don't

know it could there was this carved

image in the stone of this Mayan Warrior

drinking and he had an ear spool and it

was like H so they dug further and

further and it went like 26 MERS down

and it was the entire story of the popal

Vu W of the twins going into hell and

getting their father's head and swimming

back and it was it's this crazy story

and it um uh kind of dated that book

because I think it was a almost 3,000

years old this this uh mural this

carving so it tells you that the story

is pretty old and they thought initially

it was probably back in the 1300s but

this confirmed that it was at least

2,600 years old something like that yeah

so it's pretty cool that to be there

when they're digging that stuff up is

mindblowing well they're missing so much

of the May history it's very coffee I

want some water that's water in there

water they're missing so much of the

Mayan history you know because

everybody's gone but um one of the you

ever see that very bizarre carving where

it looks like there's a guy who's

sitting in a cockpit of a spaceship like

looking through some sort of an an eye

thing yeah they got some weird stuff

it's like weird yeah where there's fire

underneath the chair like what is that

they got dudes that look like Europeans

they have these guys with red beards

helmets and stuff it's like these

Phoenician guys who probably traveled

over there early on

yeah probably maybe in the sixth Century

or something like that so they it wasn't

that long a boat ride so they probably

went over there and made contact and

they they thought they were gods or

something and then they went away again

and they said well wait for them to come

back and uh of course they did come back

but it didn't work out the same no no no

well there's so many accounts of you

know people visiting the especially when

you get into the Amazon sure oh I don't

know about the Amazon oh my God what's

tell me about that well first of all the

Amazon used to be filled with people and

most of the Amazon is man-made the

jungle in the Amazon is agriculture yeah

wow yeah okay the jungle and the Amazon

they didn't even know this until fairly

recently mhm and they now know from

flying over they use light liar which is

this uh Light mini radar so they so when

they use this laser radar when they fly

over it they're finding all these grids

and Pathways and cities in the jungle so

the jungle had consumed all these cities

you think there was millions and

millions of people living in the Amazon

and that Europeans came over diseases

everybody dies jungle consumes a city

people come back 200 years later looking

for it like the lost city of Z like that

uh that story right they go back to look

and there's there's nothing left yeah

Guns Germs and Steel yeah yeah yeah

great

yeah wow that's fascinating I don't have

to look into that and we're going

through all those things right now Guns

Germs and Steel oh yeah oh my God yeah

germs yeah oh God the germs I had I'm

just just on the tail end of some

hideous flu that was going I don't know

if you did you get the h5n1 or whatever

the [ __ ] it is I don't know what the

hell yeah I've had that that was the

swine thing I had swine flu one time I

you had that 2009 I yes it was around

then yeah yeah it was it was an epidemic

a pandemic whatever you want to call it

but it didn't have the same sort of

press releases that Co did sure I got

the swine I acted more like a pig you

know it's terrible terrible wallowing in

my own

mud so uh I like Flight Risk it's fun

movie oh it's a whole you know it's a

it's a hoot I mean I think the first

thing you got to do with any film and I

think it's incumbent upon all directors

artists to entertain

first in some fashion even if it's a

heavy story you have to find some some

aspect of it that entertains and uh and

I think this for entertainment's sake is

just fun and it's quick I'm I'm not

subjecting you to four hours of like

watching autism dry right it's like it's

like uh you know it's 85 90 minutes yeah

it's a good time yeah and Mark is insane

yeah he's great in it he plays a good

psycho oh he's a psychopath Mark's got a

good Dark Side there's some there's some

dark stuff there that he was able to

draw from and uh every you know and then

he'd let it out I can't even repeat some

of the stuff he'd say in fact we had to

cut most of it out it was like really

sick but uh we we hint at

it anyway when you make a movie now I

mean you've had such a career when you

make a movie now like what motivates you

at this point in your life um like how

do you how do you decide let's hit the

green light on this one yeah there are

things that speak to me and uh and they

speak for a for a long time it's uh

I remember when I was a a kid in high

school I was studying English and said

well where did the English language come

from and they talked about wow it came

from this old guttural German Old Norse

that the Vikings brought across and I

was thinking well that's cool the

Vikings you know and then immediately I

start thinking man somebody should make

I want to make a film about Vikings and

they only speak in Old Norse because if

if if they say if they say h you know if

they speak speak English all of a sudden

right you're not buying it but if

they're speaking some guttural language

you're sort of scared by them and it's

like that's scary to me and then I said

to myself I'm 17 years old why am I

thinking about making films about

Vikings I don't know anything about

making films and not much about Vikings

so why the hell am I even thinking about

that but that was something that was

early on was like a drive I guess to

sort of depict things like that so I did

films in other languages in Mayan and in

in Aramaic in in Latin you know so and

there's the power to that I noticed when

I was young I used to go and watch a lot

of foreign films and I watch French

movies right or German or whatever they

were Spanish I'd watch them and I think

wow the acting's great in those and it

seemed better because of the subtitles

because more believable somehow I don't

know right because you're not you're not

hearing insincerity in their voice CU

you don't even understand what they're

saying no yeah you just feel the

emotions and words and it also it has to

take your attention because you have to

do another function you have to read

yeah which is another thing that's sort

of maybe blinds you to the flaws in the

film making perhaps so you know hey it's

a great trick yeah it's alisation

there's a there is a thing about reading

it while you're watching it's like an

added element of concentration MH you

know like subtitled movies you feel like

you're a smarter person watching a movie

where you're reading it as well yeah and

there's yeah there's something about the

written word that's like it's a pretty

interesting thing to throw into the mix

I know when I first started it was kind

of confusing but then I got really good

at it and I think uh especially with

something like what the passion that I

did the written word was very important

because it was you know you got all

those books the Bible you know you've

got the the different gospels and stuff

that people are quite familiar with half

the time they didn't even need to read

the subtitles they could look at it and

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resources see dk. co/ audio that was a

crazy movie because uh it was a great

movie but it seemed like there was

resistance to that movie oh yeah no

there was which uh I I thought was very

strange there was like Hollywood

resistance to that movie like people

didn't like that you were making it it

seemed like yeah there's a lot of there

was a lot of opposition to it and uh I

don't know it's I think if you ever hit

on that subject matter you're going to

get people going because of course it's

big subject matter and it's like uh you

know and my contention is you know when

I was making it it was like you're

making this film and the idea was that

we're all responsible for this that his

sacrifice was For All Mankind and that

for all all our ills and all all the

things in our fallen nature it was a

Redemption so you know and I believe

that you know I I actually am you know I

was born into a Catholic Family I'm very

Christian in my beliefs you know so I do

actually believe this stuff to the full

so depicting that was an honor but it

was also yeah you got the you got the

Daylights beat out of your for it yeah

because there's there's resistance first

of all from secular Hollywood mhm where

for whatever reason Christianity is the

one religion that you're allowed to

disparage yeah Christianity is the one

religion where

people all these Progressive open-minded

leftist people they'll embrace all these

different religions until it comes to

Christianity and for whatever reason

that represents like white

male you know whatever it represents

colonialism you know whatever it you

know whatever it represents it's

negative yeah sure it's gotten a bad rap

and they people do feel free to beat up

on it MH even I do when I see it's like

you know when it's not fair when I think

it's off right like uh you know when

they appoint some Cardinal in some dasis

and he's been covering up for like

people who are child molesters you know

like Theodore mccarrick or Cardinal

whirl or those kind of guys I mean or

the pope yes absolutely I'm I'm not

Benedict oh not Ben well he was covering

up but yeah so is the guy now is he

really well yeah yeah it's it's not

great I thought he was like the more

Progressive Pope oh he's very

Progressive yes but he's covering up for

stuff as well well they they all are I

mean it's a it's a a dark institution in

a lot of ways cuz it's history you know

well you know the institution it was

instituted by Christ you know but that

doesn't mean that it can't be flawed and

there's a school of thought that

says it isn't what it purports to be

anymore it's it's moved away from what

it was intended to be and what it

is uh almost there's a guy called um

Bishop vegano who says it's a

counterfeit parallel

church and it's it's running an entirely

different

religion I actually don't I don't adhere

to a post-conciliar

church I adhere can you define what that

means okay um there was an event that

happened in the in the

60s first there was an event in the

Vatican where they elected John the

23d pope right in 1958 I was two years

old right um he was elected and there

was a very funny thing that happened in

the conclave you know usually there's

white and black smoke that goes out of

the the chimneys to tell you we have a

pope you know habam us pop him you know

and the white smoke came out

and everybody cheered and they went

crazy and then about a half an hour

later black smoke came out that never in

history has that happened that the white

smoke came out and then the black smoke

came out so white smoke means we found a

new pope black smoke means no Pope

that's right they'd have votes or

there'd be one reason or another they'd

have a round in the conclave and black

smoke would come out many times many

times maybe maybe it would take two

weeks but never was it known that white

smoke came out then black smoke came out

so what was the

scenario that somebody was

elected and that maybe something else

happened and he was pushed aside and

someone else was put in ah so it was

power struggle some kind of power

struggle and um of course the man who

came out was a man called Angela ronali

and he was John the 23rd now it's

interesting to note that never had a

pope taken the name of another Pope ever

before in history but this man man took

the name of a known anti-pop from the

15th century that kmo deedi put in there

as his own man I'll get you in the chair

and then everything will be Rosy you

know everything will go good for

business you know whatever he was

putting him in there for some corrupt

reason but um and there have been

corrupt men in that place before I mean

there's Alexander I 6 and Julius II and

6us I fourth I mean some of these guys

are you know they're not Saints um so he

took the name of a known anti-pop from

the fifth century who actually said yes

I'm an anti-pop sorry I'm not the right

guy because there was more than one and

he confessed to being and he wanted to

you know Square things with with the

Almighty I guess so he confessed to

being an anti-pop and uh so he took the

same name as that guy John the

23rd so it's interesting don't you think

I mean I why would he do that well

whenever you have that kind of power

like I'm sure you've been to the Vatican

right yeah it's stunning yes it's huge

it's so cra when you're walking around

you see the just the massive amount just

the dollar value in the art that they

possess yeah it's [ __ ] insane it's

crazy yeah and uh you know it's a very

small country it's a country yeah it's a

country inside of a small City yeah cuz

Rome's not the biggest city no and then

it's got a country inside the city yeah

with a with walls around it sure and you

can't extradite people yeah pretty weird

how convenient yeah even ratzinger he

didn't drive from the Vatican to the

other place he flew o and it was only a

little while cuz who knows why I don't

know well he was wanted yes yeah I mean

he had done one of the things that he

had done was he had moved a priest that

had molested a hundred kids and he moved

him to some new place where he molested

deaf kids

yeah yeah boy yeah yeah I know that's

the the dirtiest most evil practice that

the Catholic church has been accused of

I think so and many institutions as well

but that is a very bad one and uh I

think it's all part and parcel of the

same corruption that crept in and when

you asked what's the difference between

prev Vatican 2 so Vatican 2 happened and

of course they they took the church and

they they reformed it

and they changed things in it and it

didn't necessarily agree with everything

that went before

it and up to that point yeah you could

find it agreed with itself but all of a

sudden you got something else to the

point we now I

mean I mean we got a pope that brought a

a South American Idol into the church to

worship really he did the pcha mama he

bought the South and he got know what

that is it's a it's kind of like a South

American God patcha mam say any why

would he do

that good question but he did did he

have an explanation for why he did it

yeah it's kind of a weasel worded thing

of like oh all religions are just as

good as one another but you know if

that's his contention he shouldn't be

the pope no I mean how can you be the

pope if you say all religions are just

as good yeah we all worship you know so

yeah that's patcha Mama there you go so

he brought that in yeah into the Vatican

then the Hier he the hierarch even

worshiped that they had a ceremony

around it outside what well that

constitutes apostasy J it's that's an

apostasy move all right worshiping false

gods yeah that's number one on the

Mosaic Hit List you know Moses goes up

on the mountain he comes back down

people are worshiping in a golden calf

yeah you know it's it's that yeah so you

can't do that and uh for me that's a

departure

from what you know that's called

apostasy it's a falling away from it and

the Very nature of apostasy means that

you have to be part of it to fall away

from it mhm so it's an inside job

ah so what do you think there's a motive

Behind these things I don't think you

well probably what do you think it is I

don't know but it isn't good I think

look I think we're we we're looking at a

world where

and this is the in the next film I'm

going to do I'm going to try and Tackle

this

question that there are big Realms

spiritual Realms there's good there's

evil and they are slugging it

out for the souls of mankind and my

question is why are we even important

little old flawed Humanity why are we

important in that process where the big

Realms are slugging it out over us and I

think there's bigger things at play

here and institutions that purport to

touch on the Divine are necessarily

going to be affected by that slugfest

that's going on between good and evil

right and and sometimes good gives up

ground yeah and maybe not on purpose you

know maybe there's some deception

involved or self deception coed every

morning when I wake up I actually pray

that I don't deceive myself

you know because it's like you know your

mind is a very funny place I mean

there's uh I've always said you know

it's your second thought and your first

action that that you're responsible for

your first thought throw it away you

know right but upon consideration yeah

the second thought is what you're

responsible for yeah that's the

difference between first degree and

second degree murder there you go

right right there first degree like I'm

plotting this out and we we take that

into consideration when we sentence

people sure like if you're a person who

just you're all of a sudden you're in a

fight with a guy you didn't expect it

and you stab him and kill him second

degree murder yeah but if you're like

I'm going to kill this [ __ ] I'm

going to find out where he is and I'm

going to go get him first degree sure I

planned a lot of murders in my life you

know we all have yeah in your head you

plan the murder and you think well

that's not a very good idea but I think

I could get away with it right there's

the second thought yeah that is

interesting that we take that into

consideration yeah that we do like if

you've had time to think about it you're

a different kind of person the person

acts in the ACT sure you're in your

animal passion yes and I found this out

I actually spent a long time in my

animal brain which is a very horrible

place to be and um when you say that

what do you mean by youve spent a long

time in your animal brain you're in

flight or fight right all the time you

don't even sleep it's like really not a

good place to be and if anybody looks at

you the wrong way you want to bite them

yeah and sometimes you say and do things

that are socially

unacceptable and you know I went and got

a brain scan by this guy called Daniel

Amen who's this brain guy he's against

all psych meds and stuff but he thinks

like let me have a look at your brain

and he put a radioactive tracer in me

whoa and to photograph my brain he works

yeah he works with a lot of football

players and guys who had brain injuries

man it's thirsty in

here but but um so he he looked at my

brain and he was like and he opens the

file and I'm in there with the guy and

he looks up and he goes are you

okay and he go first no first he went

like this and I said what and he are you

okay like that and I said yeah I think

so and he he came over and he sat next

to me but very slowly and cautiously he

says no you're not and I said what do

you mean he says you got the worst case

of PTS I've have ever seen and I said

you mean like even worse than guys in Mo

and [ __ ] like that and he goes yeah and

he

says you're not okay Jesus Christ and

and I was like and I and I started I

started to well up you know like no no

I'm not it's like oh boy and it was uh

he had a very miraculous and uh great

remedy for it which was to eat a bunch

of fish oil vitamin B complex and get

into a hyperbaric chamber for 40

sessions but make sure you do at least

two or three a week ah it fixed my head

really yeah it got me out of that wacky

place you know so it was something to do

with nutrition and oxygen and yeah and

your brain is neuroplastic he he

explained neuroplasticity to me and how

okay you could get brain damage and like

holes in your head and all you know

concuss I used to play rugby ah I've

been knocked out on the field a couple

of times you know that explains a lot

you know yeah and um

so it actually you can actually heal the

holes in your head it look like swiss

cheese in it's like horrible there L A

lot of these football players get like

that too the poor guys I mean they get

depressed and they oh yeah you know oh

yeah hormonal imbalance pituitary glands

[ __ ] up oh yeah yeah absolutely yeah

not producing testosterone or human

growth hormone correctly that's correct

yeah depression low energy yep

irritability irritability when I kill

somebody you know it's like terrible you

know and uh and it's just not socially

acceptable plus I don't want to go to

prison yeah well the rugby I bet that's

a a giant Factor uh yeah I I played from

like 13 to probably in my late teens and

and you get knocked around a little 100%

yeah there's no if fans or butts about

that no helmet no you know well people

don't realize like even shots to the

chest cause brain damage oh yeah yeah

that's what people are realizing now

yeah sure I mean you know and like I'm

addicted to the UFC right I love it but

I know that these guys are I I feel kind

of sorry for them I do as well and and

one of the guys I I knew one of the guys

fairly well and usually I'm pretty

immune to like but like he was in there

and he was fighting against volovski it

was Brian Ortega and he was getting his

ass handed to him in one fight he almost

almost got him a couple of times but

like yeah he almost submitted him twice

yeah I know but because I knew Brian it

was like my CH it was like my son was in

there I almost started crying I was and

it got to me I was like I should

probably feel like this about all these

guys but I don't know them as well it

becomes a problem for me when I'm

friends with a guy and then and then

also I see when they're on the tail end

of their career and they can't take

shots anymore and then when you talk to

them you recognize the speech patterns

are

slurring yeah yeah I met Muhammad Ali

when he was in a chair you know o and

um man I don't know if I could even tell

this story what he said was so funny but

he was still in there and he was still a

little devil and he was like uh and he

was still he was still [ __ ] with

people of course but it was like uh I I

can't tell the story you can't no man

okay footnote it tell me later I'll tell

you later it is funny but it was my

assistant you know it's what he said to

my assistant was like so funny and um

and and then he said it and we all were

like whoa and then I looked at him and

he was just laughing he was laughing his

ass off so he was still all in there but

it was hard I guess he had the damage of

being punched yeah trauma related

Parkinson's disease yes very common for

Fighters God oh no yeah yeah yeah it's

not good I got knocked out when I in a

fight when I was like 20 and it was like

knocked out like out and it was uh you

know I woke up in the

hospital not good no well a few of those

will explain a lot yes it does yeah and

we didn't know that you know back then

that's why it always drives me crazy in

a movie when someone gets hit over the

head with a gun and knocked out and then

five minutes later they're fighting and

they're fine you know or shot in the arm

you know got to kill you you know that

always makes me laugh too but we used to

do it you know well you kind of have to

right it's like part of the whole thing

of telling a movie you got to sure I

mean

Michelle Docker even brains Mark

Wahlberg with a fire extinguisher at one

point it's yeah he's back you know

brains him shoots him oh yeah he's a

cockroach you can't kill him it takes a

lot more we you'll find out yeah but uh

we're you know people used to think that

concussions are just something you

recover from like no big deal you get a

concussion take a break for a little

while you'll be fine you might not be

fine no you're not I got a concussion at

my daughter's

wedding this is really weird okay so

she's getting married married a great

guy they got a great family and um a

buddy of mine from Australia comes to

the wedding and he goes comes up and I I

go to hug him and he he Ducks down and

he comes up and he puts his shoulder

into the point of my chin the guy weighs

240 and he puts his shoulder into the

point of my chin and knocks me the [ __ ]

out Jesus Christ I'm

like and like for the next four months

I'm messed up I have to get like a guy

to work cranial sacral you know fix me

up and stuff like that it really messed

me [ __ ] Australians yeah yeah there

you go wild folk worse than Germans yeah

they just wild ex prisoners yeah yeah

wild prisoner of mother England yeah

yeah anyway so this this story that you

want to tell about Good and Evil like do

you have a script or is it just a thing

in your head like what is it yeah it's

it's it's the resurrection story and but

it's it's uh it's not just it's not

linear because you can't really it's

hard to understand so it's got to be put

in a

framework where you answer a few other

questions as well and you have to

juxtapose the event itself against

everything else so that it makes some

kind of sense in in a bigger picture

which is a hard thing to do and it took

my brother and I about and and a guy

called Randall Wallace plus my brother

and I took us six seven years to write

it so are you doing this with historians

as well are you trying to make it yeah

yeah yeah historical stuff well I regard

I regard the gospel says history it's

verifiable history some people say oh

it's a fairy tale he never existed but

he did and there are other accounts

verifiable historical accounts outside

the biblical ones that also bear this up

that yes he did exist and um and and the

other aspect of that is that the all the

evangelists the apostles who went out

there um every single one of those guys

died rather than deny their belief and

nobody dies for a lie nobody right so

that's part of what I'm doing it's like

showing nobody dies for a lie yeah well

the resurrection is the one that is the

most diff difficult for people to

swallow yes that is the one that

requires the most Faith the most faith

and the most belief yeah Resurrection

yeah who who who gets back up three days

later after he gets murdered in public

um who gets back up under his own power

Buddha didn't do that [ __ ] right you

know so you believe that was a real

event yeah I do yeah what brought you to

that belief is this something that

you've always had or is it something you

you studied it and you've come to this

conclusion because of the historical

accounts and yes uh I think as a child

you know one accepts things on faith

because you know you're raised by people

who are nice to you and they believe it

and my dad was a pretty smart guy he was

like Mena smart you know like real smart

like back in 1968 he won Jeopardy right

and then really and then they brought

all the Jeopardy winners back and he

played all the winners and he beat all

of them too so he had a mind like a

steel trap

and his memory was practically

photographic my memory is pornographic

but it's like it's like his his was like

I don't have that that kind of mind

right um but I'm more like he did math

and you know I can't add but

uh um so as a child you learn um these

things and you accept them on faith and

I still have that Faith but as I got

older I came to it through intellect and

through reading and putting things

together and accounts and then

occurrences like in my own life you know

I mean just recently they verified the

shroud of Trin have you seen that I've

been reading about it and I know that

there's some contention there's some

some discussion and debate about it but

they used to think that it was only a

couple hundred years old and now they've

they've changed that yeah they said no

it it's back then they also don't

understand how it was made which to me

is very fascinating it's not paintt it's

not they don't know what caused the

image itself and how that technology

would have even been available it wasn't

yeah a couple thousand years ago an

intense light I mean

Atomic to leave almost like a

photographic imprint on a piece of cloth

yeah and it's wild pull that up pull the

shroud of turn up oh yeah it's wild to

look at because it's it's so interesting

oh

yeah and you can see it

that it

depicts a first century Hebrew male

because the hairstyle was from the first

century and a Hebrew hairstyle that he

was about 6 feet tall that he was

completely scourged all over his body he

was

crucified um the one on the left is the

one on the right is just like an

artistic rendition that's the face yeah

click on that one the face the face yeah

that's good enough get that large that's

[ __ ] crazy yeah yeah scourged beaten

a CRA the the wounds on the the Thorns

the hands the feet uh and and the

scourging and the the the hairstyle was

from the first century and the pollins

that they found in the cloth were from

that region yeah uh also the weave was a

first century weave that was typical and

another guy an archaeologist who I knew

who actually translated the passion in

Aramaic told me that

if you look close you can see the the

the image of a tiberious coin marks on

the eyes now I don't know if that's real

or not I've never actually checked that

but that there's images of tiberious on

the coin so they would put the coins

over the eyes yeah so that would date it

uh but they have now verified that it

does actually go back to that time

period for a while they were testing

pieces that had been repaired in the

13th century or right you know what is

the latest on that Jamie can you see see

like I I was trying to get that I had I

have two different articles from within

the last 6 months saying opposite yeah

opposite of course know which one

sounded the most accurate well it's such

a crazy thing to even try to verify like

what are you like what are you saying

you're saying that this is really the

Shroud that Jesus was covered in so

you're saying Jesus historically

absolutely did exist and we think that

this is the Shroud that covered him that

just that alone people incredulity

people immediately they they they their

hackles raised like wait a minute wait a

minute wait a minute and they just

instead of like looking at it

objectively they don't almost always

want to look at it from a point of view

of dis disproving it immediately

dismissing it immediately but that's you

know that's science isn't it you have to

sort of you know you play The Devil's

Advocate and and that's okay go for it

you know um do you are you aware of

Graham Hancock oh no Graham Hancock is

uh he's sort of a historian that has a

very uh he's got a series on Netflix

he's a fascinating guy and his his

career started because he was

investigating this these accounts in

Ethiopia of the Ark of the Covenant and

that they believe the Ark of the

Covenant is in this one church that's

protected by all these monks that wind

up getting cataracts and radiation

disease and sickness and they think that

it's because they're protecting this Arc

of the Covenant this this actual thing

that it's an actual physical thing

that's there and if you touch it you get

zapped yeah yeah and that even being in

its presence [ __ ] these people up maybe

maybe who knows I mean it's got to be

someplace right they buried it they lost

track of it yeah but uh man it used to

be and and all the stories are if you

even touched it you fall over you know

cuz it constructed electrically somehow

yeah like what is that what's in there

yeah why why is it giving people cancer

if they're really protecting it I think

it's the actual structure of the

container it's in that that is the

problem that's my thought on I could be

wrong but I think inside it they

have things from like uh when Moses was

like mana and you know stuff like that

that they they managed to keep from like

for example they they say that

uh that golgatha the place where the

crucifixion happened it's called

golgatha the place of the skull because

that's where Adam's head is

buried really yes and that that it's

also perhaps the same

place and and it it tells you it's kind

of in the same area where Abraham almost

sacrifices Isaac oh so it's interesting

yeah and it's uh and and the cross when

in any artistic depiction at the foot of

the cross underneath it is the skull

uh representing the skull of Adam huh so

it's interesting

yeah yeah there it is yeah that's the

skull of Adam huh yep wow place of the

skull memory myth in the chapel of Adam

what did you uh find on the shroud of

Torin

Jamie both those articles just asked

like one person like one re researcher

thought it was another researcher based

off of their research said it wasn't can

you put it to the one that thought it

was um so the one who thought it was is

a like

aarch a nuclear researcher Jesus Christ

the other one was like a AI artist from

Brazil yeah so I I don't know who has

the

most so it says study published in the

journal Heritage the authors conducted

dating work on a sample from the Shroud

coming to the conclusion that it may be

a 2,000-year-old relic the Shroud which

has long been the subject of intense

scrutiny features a faint image of a man

some believe is the body of Jesus

miraculously imprinted onto the cloth

while the latest study does not discuss

the question whether or not the artifact

was indeed Jesus's b b uh burial shroud

specifically the authors did find its

age is roughly consistent with his time

[Music]

oh yeah yeah I think isn't the

smithonian guy all for it I don't know

maybe that's him I don't know but uh

yeah there's for and against there's

always been yeah yeah always but it's

just but the but the but the image is

like yeah it's pretty crazy yeah

whatever it is is pretty crazy and the

fact that they don't know how they made

it is also pretty crazy yeah it's not a

painting no then not not exactly sure

how it even came about yeah it had to

have been some kind of intense light

well the the thought was that even

trying to replicate something like that

today would be incredibly difficult to

do sure it's like an x-ray vision you

know it's like an x-ray that's what it

they you only see you really see it in

the negative only right you know right

it's like a negative yeah yeah H

hey I buy it but but but that's not the

only reason I buy it I mean I think you

know there's other logical reasons why I

why I believe so like what are those oh

okay stuff that happens in your own

life the results you

get from actually

appealing to a power greater than

yourself you know and I mean I don't

think it's any secret I am flawed in the

fact that I am by Nature born an

alcoholic right I did drugs I did

alcohol so and there was nothing that

could

stop me from doing

that nothing so I was really kind of on

you're on a downhill

run so I regard the fact that I was able

to appeal to something greater than

myself to help me and actually stop me

doing that I think that's a miracle it

is for me it is and for many you know so

well that is the thing about AA right

it's it's a part of the whole process is

appealing to a higher power sure it's

spiritual program because you're

suffering your spiritual malady you know

yeah so it's a spiritual

cure and that's the essence I think of

why it

works because you can't explain it

otherwise I mean it's well you kind of

can but

um I think what you're being asked to do

is to think

about other people and other things more

than yourself because it's kind of an

ego disease yeah so if you that is the

problem with addiction right it's very

narcissistic very narciss you're

constantly thinking about yourself and

what you need I need a drink I need a

bump I need a you know I need something

sure I need and no matter what you need

it's never going to be enough right

right so you actually have to appeal to

something outside that you consider

bigger and better than yourself which

instantly kind of pushes you more in the

direction of humility because because

you're not the center of the universe

anymore right and that you can't do it

and the first step in any of that sort

of stuff is accepting that you are

powerless over it that's the first

that's the first uh that's the most

power powerful step you can do is that

you're powerless when you realize that

you're like okay yeah there's [ __ ] all I

can do about this I have to appeal to

something better than me and that to me

is a

miracle yeah yeah well it's a very

uniquely human thing the ability to

course correct and also just the the

concept of addiction in the first place

sure you know it's a very uniquely human

thing that we all know there's dark

roads our mind can go down and then we

wonder like what is the purpose of these

dark thoughts what is the purpose of

this destructive behavior that we're all

prone to in some way shape or form what

is the purpose of everything I mean like

I mean why am I here what's the meaning

of this and I'm looking for purpose and

and uh what is it we're here for I think

you know we have to leave some stuff but

you have to leave some good stuff you

can leave plenty of bad stuff you know

and it's uh and we're all prone that way

I often think about you know the human

race as a whole you know you think about

guys like you know Stalin or Hitler or

chairman Mau or and I'm I'm pretty sure

I'm not going to be sharing a cell in

the afterlife with those guys you know

right I don't know where I'll be on the

ladder but uh um depends on how you end

up right well that's it yeah it really

is it's it's like you know and we're

allowed to make mistakes and we do we

are so flawed and I am I I'm more flawed

than anyone you know but it's uh um

something that you I think and it's

pretty safe to say I'm in the third act

now you're in act two right go do tight

but I'm I'm like I'm in the third act

man so you got you have to think

about the other side you to think about

what comes next is there a next yes

there is I believe there is and I think

it's U uh depends on how you live

now and uh and the beauty

of believing is

that even for your transgressions you

can be

forgiven and you can be redeemed but

it's all up here right you know is the

true acceptance and understanding of

what you've done and what you should do

sure you have to look at yourself

honestly yeah yeah yeah absolutely

honestly you have to be able to accuse

use

yourself and uh and understand that

there is there it's a great deal of

Mercy involved in the fact that I

believe that God

sent his son down to tell us okay I'm

going to Ransom you people from your

Fallen nature and um and I'll give you a

road map on how to do

it and

um and people do it there's even people

that do it that I've never even heard of

it you know some guy in the jungle some

place I'm sure right you

know

because the Creator is above the

law me it's an interesting fact to note

that the first canonized Saint you know

who it was no the first ever confirmed

canonization as a

saint was dismus you know dismus was no

he was hanging he was the thief on the

cross next to Jesus Oh and he says to

him you're going to be okay this day

you'll be with me unbaptized Criminal

all that stuff so wow the lawmaker is

above the

law so there's a lot of

Mercy what about people that never

experience Christianity what about the

the uncontacted people that's right

that's what I'm saying some guy in the

Le yeah it's been

known that uh it's called Invincible

ignorance because they don't know what

the truth is MHM you know it's possible

that they can

be saved as well I you know so what are

your thoughts on

Evolution

W the Darwin thing yeah I don't really

go for it no yeah Ice Age dinosaurs you

know what did they turn

into I

mean things became extinct at some point

I don't think I was some kind of

like you know legless thing that crawled

out of the ocean I don't think I came

from that I think I was created do you