All language subtitles for Sons.Of.Ecstasy.2025.720p.WEBRip.x264.AAC-[YTS.MX]

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-Hey.
-Hey.

-How you doin'?
-[kisses]

-You look great.
-Yeah?

I've lost some weight.

Yeah. Hey,
but you look good,
you look great.

-Hey.
-Hey.

[kisses]

-Hey. Good seeing you.
-Good seeing you.
You look great.

All right,
this is living room, take one.
AB common mark.

-[man] And we are
speed and set.
-Rolling.

[man 2] Hey, Sam,
do you want to pick up
a photo there

and tell me
what we're looking at?

This is a Christmas
with my daughter and my son.

-[Gerard] Is that in Brooklyn?
-I want to think that's
Grandma and Grandpa's house

in Long Island.

And then this is you,
got a little older.

We're on a boat.

-Those were, like,
the best memories of my life.
-That was amazing.

[Karen] This is my communion.

Gerard, look how short
you were. [chuckles]

[Karen]
Look how innocent you look,
just young and innocent.

Did you ever go to confession
and tell the priest your sins?

Mmm, yeah,
I went to confession.

I told the priest,
"You tell me yours
and I'll tell you mine."

[Sammy]
My name is Salvatore
"Sammy the Bull" Gravano.

I'm a fucking gangster.

[man] On the right
is John Gotti.

On the left,
his trusted assistant
Sammy the Bull.

Gravano committed
19 mob murders.

Like my father,
I also believed in
Cosa Nostra.

But then everything changed.

Am I a rat?

I took fucking 20 years
to help my kids and my family.
Is that a rat?

[Gerard] This is a story
that we never allowed
my father to tell.

[reporter]
This is Phoenix, Arizona,

and this will be
our armchair vacation

to The Valley of the Sun.

[Karen]
When we moved to Phoenix

we were definitely
fish out of water.

-[crowd cheering]
-[Karen] But there was
this whole underbelly

in the middle of the desert
having rave parties.

[reporter] What keeps
much of the action pumping,
according to authorities...

-...is the drug ecstasy.
-[woman whispers] Ecstasy.

[Gerard] I didn't come
to Arizona to sell drugs
but I was built for this shit.

I wanted to control
the ecstasy scene
here in Arizona.

But then some guys
started undercutting us.

-[woman] It was Shaun.
-[man] It was Shaun.

-[man 2] It was Shaun.
-[man 3] It was Shaun
who was the mastermind

to our ecstasy empire.

It's fuck or be fucked
in this world.

[Gerard]
This means fucking war.

It's not fun anymore.
Now we're getting
automatic weapons.

[man] Get down! Get down!

[man 2]
It's like a fuckin' movie.

[Gerard]
I was prepared to kill him.

-[thunder rumbling]
-[Shaun] And then the name
"Sammy the Bull" Gravano

entered my sphere.

I don't give a flying fuck.

We'll go to war
[clicks] like that.

It was me and my family
against the world.

[Gerard]
When we moved to Arizona,

it was completely different
than New York.

I grew up with people
that would pick up a gun
and shoot you in two seconds.

This is a story
that I'm gonna tell

that we never
allowed my father to tell,

me and my whole family...

...but let's start
at the beginning.

We grew up in Staten Island.

A very, very
tight-knit family.

This was my sister's birthday.

That's me.

That's my sister,
and there's my father.

He was always present
in our lives,

but at that time
I really didn't know anything
about what my father did.

[Karen] At the time,
everything seemed normal
to me.

I came home
and I was surrounded
by love, family.

My father was a provider,
he was a protector,
and he was a friend.

He was someone
that I always knew

was gonna be there,
no matter what,

so I didn't question much.

But then, at my sweet 16,
I remember my friend
told me,

"John Gotti's here."

It was at that point
I realized my father's
first family

was the Gambino family.

He was a gangster to the core.

He's Sammy the Bull.

[reporter]
John Gotti and his underboss,
"Sammy the Bull" Gravano,

are two of the most notorious
and infamous figures

in the history
of organized crime in America.

Gravano committed
19 mob murders,

but none were
as expertly carried out

as the brazen
1985 assassination

of mob boss Paul Castellano.

[Gerard] I never judged
what my father did
for one second.

Back then, I also believed
in Cosa Nostra.

If he killed someone
they deserved to die.

They did something wrong
or broke the rules.

Being surround by that life
made me want to do
the same things.

It made me want
to go out and hurt people
and commit robberies.

I wanted to be ready,
I wanted to know
how to handle it,

so I was 15
and boxed at Gleason's Gym
in Brooklyn, New York.

I was in great shape,
and I was fighting people,

and I was building
this confidence within myself.

I started getting respected
because I was the son
of Sammy the Bull.

That gave me a sense of power

that I can do
what I want to do...

...and there was gonna be
no repercussion.

And then everything changed.

[reporter] In 1991,
facing life in prison,

"Sammy the Bull" Gravano
turned on his boss,
John Gotti.

John Gotti, I,
along with some others,
murdered Paul Castellano.

John Gotti became the boss.

I became
the official underboss,

which I held until
I began to cooperate
with the government in 1991.

[reporter 2]
Sammy the Bull's testimony

was crucial in convicting
the infamous mob boss
John Gotti,

but it had also made him
a prime target

for the criminal underworld.

This development
is likely to have significant

and potentially dangerous
repercussions.

[reporter 3]
Despite admitting
to 19 murders,

"Sammy the Bull" Gravano
served only five years
in lockup

before being released
into the witness protection
program.

They told my father
he had to do two years

in the witness
protection program in Colorado

and then he was done.

We never went to Colorado
when he was there.

We weren't allowed to.

But me, my mother,
and my sister

never went in
the witness protection
program.

We had nothing to do with it.

And we all stayed in New York.

And I had to take on the role
as the man of the family,

and at that time
I was about 17,
but I was willing to fight.

I was on high guard.

I did get two guns
and I carried them
everywhere I went.

And I was gonna do
anything I had to do
to protect my family.

And then, a few months later,
the FBI goes to my father.

They're like, "There was a hit
put on Gerard."

They're gonna kill me
to send a message
to my father.

That was the plan.

My mother said, "That's it,
I'm not doing this anymore.
We have to leave New York."

So we decided
to move to Phoenix

to be closer
to where my father was
in witness protection.

Before we left,
we dug up my father's money.

I put it in
the back of my truck,

and I was driving
across country
with 3 million cash.

[Karen] As soon as
my father left the witness
protection program,

which he was only in
for seven months,

he came straight to Phoenix.

[reporter] Sammy the Bull's
future whereabouts
are uncertain.

However, given his past,
he may not be the most
desirable neighbor.

But if he can effectively
conceal his previous identity,

his new neighbors won't know
that living in their midst

is a man with a price
on his head.

[Sammy] When I became
a main member in the mafia

that was a high for me.

I was involved in
three mafia wars...

...and I was involved in
19 murders.

I didn't like a hit
but I was focused on it.

To me, the mafia
was no different than
being a soldier in the army.

I never killed
a woman, a child,
or people out of the life.

It was always people
who broke the rules
of Cosa Nostra.

You knew what it was.

But everybody knew the life...

...and they knew
the consequences of the life.

I cooperated
at one time in my life.

And I tell my family...

..."I broke the rule...

...and I could be killed
at any time."

I came to Phoenix
to be with my family.

I wasn't gonna just sit back
and hide...

...so I kept my name.

My father gave me that name,

and that's the name
I wanted to die with.

I didn't live with my family,
I lived by myself

because I knew
the mafia would come.

I had a .357 Magnum
I always carried around
under my belt.

There was four loaded guns
in my apartment.

I was geared and ready
for any fuckin' hit guy

who would have came down
lookin' for me.

[Sammy] You cookin' up
a storm?

-He hasn't started yet.
-[Gerard] Yeah,
I'm gonna make...

-He was waiting for you.
-I'm waiting for you.
I'll make some breakfast.

It's like when we first
moved out here to Phoenix
and started our new life,

and you finally
came in and joined.

It was like
we never tried to hide.

We got away from the mafia,
we got away from everything...

-...we got away from our past.
-[Gerard] Yeah,
but there was always

-that possible threat
of something happening.
-Oh, yeah, of course.

Actually, when I first
came to Arizona

I got concealed
weapon permits,
I bought two, three guns,

because I was
the man of the house

-for a long time.
-[Sammy] While I was gone,
right.

[Gerard]
And now you stepped
back into that role.

My feelings is like,
"Okay, now, what do we do?"

It was, again,
we were reunited,

and it was us
against the world.

[Sammy]
When I came to Phoenix,

my thinking was
no matter how much
they do to us,

we survive...

...and we go forward.

I wanted nothing to do
with my old life. I'm done.

I wanted a good life,
clean life.

I was about to change my life.

So I started business,
legitimate businesses.

I had a pool company,
an excavation company,
a construction company,

a restaurant, Uncle Sal's
Italian restaurant.

Gerard was in culinary school,
so my father thought this
would be a great opportunity.

[Gerard] That's me cooking.
Yeah, I was in good shape
back then.

[Karen] We were trying
to start a new life,

but one thing I will say,
we were definitely
fish out of water.

-Let's just put that out.
-Yeah, no, no, we were.

It was totally
different lifestyle
from New York to Arizona,

especially at that time.

I felt like Phoenix
was so slow.

Did you feel
the same way, Gerard?

-Go out and see...
-Yeah, the people I would meet

and they were
wearing flip flops

and socks up to their knees.

It was a different world.

For me, I was lookin'
to rebuild my life

and start from scratch.

[Karen] I remember
saying to my brother,

"You have to start
making some friends

and rebuild everything
that we lost in New York.

We have to start
rebuilding it here
in Phoenix."

[Gerard] One night,
I'm in my restaurant...

...and a friend walks in
with this charming guy
named Mike Papa.

He's from Long Island,
he's Italian.

He was a good looking kid,
he was very articulate.

I was told that
he was going to ASU.
He was a med student.

[Gerard]
He walked in and sat down,

and he plops down $1,000
on the desk.

And I said, "What is that?"

He said, "It's a gift.

I want you
to have this from me,

but I want you
to come out with us
one night."

So I said,
"You know, why not?"

I took the 1,000,
I put it in my pocket.

Next night, I go out with him.

We walk in to the VIP.
The bouncer gives us
this table.

He puts a bottle on the table.
Everything is on the house.

I felt like I was
back in New York.

[Karen]
Who doesn't want to go out
and pop bottles?

We came from
a lifestyle like that
in New York.

Anything we wanted, we got.

It's like that life
that was ripped away from us
just started coming back.

[Gerard] And at that point,
I became fast friends
with Mike Papa.

He's very popular in town
and the club scene,

and everyone knew who he was.

And so going
to these nightclubs,

I started to notice
he was selling ecstasy.

I was closing up
for the night,

and Mike Papa
comes in and says,

"You know,
I really cornered the market,

and if you come in with me
we can really make
some good money with this."

So I said,
"What are we gonna
make from 'em?"

"We'll make about 2,
maybe 250 per pill."

And you're selling
30,000 pills a week?

That don't sound bad.

And, at that time,
I was about 20, $30,000
in credit card debt,

so I had a motivation
to go out and make
fast money.

So I said, "What do you need
from me?"

Mike Papa said,
"We need a supplier.

We need to get
this product cheaper."

-I knew people in New York
and people I grew up with
-[beeps]

that I was still
very friendly with...

-...and I started
asking around...
-[telephone ringing]

..."Can we get ecstasy?
What's the price?"

I was trying
to get it cheaper.

Well, I did find someone.

I had it set up
where I was gonna get
30, 40,000 pills.

But then, somehow or another,
my sister found out.

[Karen]
So now there's all this talk
about New York.

"New York, New York."

Talking about he's gonna start

selling ecstasy because
he has connections where he
can get it in New York.

Gerard had left New York
'cause there was a hit
put out on him.

So, I'm thinking,
"If Gerard goes there...

...connects with
the wrong person...

[gun firing]

...it's gonna be bad."

So, my instinct
is to go to the man

that I go to whenever
I'm in trouble,

and that man is my father.

My father was, obviously,
a big gangster
outside of the house,

but what he did
outside of the house
never reflected in the house.

He was such a good father.

He would bend over backwards
if he knows that can he help
me or Gerard.

[Sammy] I have
a split personality,

part of me is a lion

and part of me is a lamb.

This is a great memory.

-Put 'em up, G.
-Okay, Dad.

[Sammy] Here's what I did
in a the mob,

when I was making money
I bought a farm.

All right, Gerard!

And I bought them horses,
and mini bikes, and chickens,

and you name it,
it was a farm.

See, that's when they stop
on my foot.

Friday night,
I left the mob behind me

and I did this.

I found happiness
away from a violent lifestyle.

When I was there
I wasn't in the mafia.

I wasn't a hitman,
I was a dad.

Look at the smile
on his face as a kid.

And my son's like a cowboy.

Nice day
on the tracks, Gerard...

I kept Gerard
away from the mafia,

a lot of guys
bring their kids in.

I'd never had intentions
of bringing my son
into the life.

So, when I heard
Gerard was selling drugs

I was so angry,
I wanted to get him
outta that business.

[Gerard] I remember
sitting in my house,

I was by myself,
I was watching TV.

Next thing I know,
my front door
comes crashing in.

It's my father.
He runs up to me, tackles me,
and he's like,

"What the fuck are you doing?
What are you thinking?

You wanna go to New York?
You wanna fucking sell drugs?"

I said, "You can't
come here and deal drugs."

[Gerard] He felt like
I was going behind his back,

doing something
that could affect him
and the entire family.

I didn't want him
going into New York
for fear for his life.

[Gerard] And he shook me
and he said,

"Do you wanna die?

I'll kill you
if you wanna die.

I'm not gonna
let anyone else kill my son.
I'm not gonna allow it."

[Sammy] I tell ya,
I'll kill ya myself.

I said, "I'm not asking you.
I'm telling you, don't do it."

I was here in Phoenix
and moved outta New York
because of his choices.

But I never questioned
his choices.

So me, I'm 22 years old,
and he's in my house
telling me what to do,

questioning my choices.

I didn't need him anymore.

And I wasn't gonna
be told what to do.

And I told him that night,

if he wanted
to go to war with me,
if that's what he wished,

we can do so.

Listen,
I don't give a flying fuck.

We'll go to war
[snaps fingers] like that.

[Gerard] My father
was so devastated
that he just left.

I went to New York

I think I got, like,
30,000 hits of ecstasy.

I brought it back to Arizona.

We got rid of them in a week.

We made $90,000 profit.

I was very successful.

I didn't come to Arizona
to sell drugs, but I was
built for this shit.

I thrived in it.

At that point,

I wanted to control
the ecstasy scene
here in Arizona

and no one was gonna stop me.

But then one day, Mike Papa,
started telling me

about some guy
that's undercutting us.

And that his prices
were considerably lower

and that we would
not be able to compete.

And that's how I learned
about the rave scene
in Arizona.

[Karen] There's this
whole underbelly,

this whole lifestyle
of people,

that once the clubs close

they're in the middle
of the desert
having rave parties.

[Gerard] And the person
who threw these raves
was a guy named English Shaun.

He controlled
the ecstasy trade
in Arizona.

I told Mike Papa,
"Let's talk to him.

Maybe we can
get a better deal."

I'm not expecting to get them
for what he's getting
them for.

But I expected
to get it cheaper
and we could all be happy.

So we decided
to contact English Shaun.

[Shaun] My mantra was,
"Greed is good."

It's fuck or be fucked
in this world.

Whatever it takes,
I'm gonna make the most money,

whatever means possible.

At the peak
of the criminal enterprise,

I had approximately
200 people working for me.

The profits over the years
was over $5 million dollars.

And the street market value
of those drugs

in the 10s of millions.

I controlled the ecstasy scene
in Arizona.

One of my biggest markets
was at a club called
The Ice House.

The Ice House
was the epicenter
of the rave scene.

And it was there
that my master salesman,

Schooly, made the most money.

[Schooly] This place
is different.

A lot different.

I'm Schooly.

I was English Shaun's
number one salesman.

We ran the ecstasy market

in Phoenix
through this location.

Phoenix in the '90s
was a very special place.

Raves were new to me
and new to everybody
around us.

It was like a wonderland.

There was a place
where light wouldn't come in,

where you could
step back in the shadows
and nobody could see you.

They could see everybody else,
but they couldn't see past
the shadow line.

And that's where I would
sell pills all night.

I could make $14,000, $15,000,
$18,000 here in a night.

Like, my pockets
would be out to here
with money stuffed into 'em,

by the end of the night.

Everyone came
to English Shaun's parties

'cause you knew
you could get
the best pills there.

But then everything
started changing.

There was a guy that usually
would get pills from us.

On day he said,
"Hey, check these out."

And he had these other pills
we had never seen before.

I'm like, "Man,
where you getting these?"

All of a sudden
a new type of ecstasy dealer
starts to appear on the scene,

run by two guys
called Gerard Gravano
and Mike Papa.

These guys are massive,
muscle bound,

steroid head,
jock, type characters.

Probably not dressing
like ravers.

[Schooly] They have
tight shirts on,
always gel in their hair.

Like, mafia wannabes.

The Sopranos
must have been their bible

'cause that's
how they all acted.

They were there to just...

make money and lift weights.

I don't know what the fuck
those kids do.

[Shaun] They became
the biggest threat
to the organization.

[Gerard] Every time
I reached out to English Shaun
he refused to meet me.

The way I grew up,
and it goes back to New York,
there was that mentality

in my head
that you're refusing
to come in to talk to me.

And my feeling
was immediate disrespect.

So, Mike Papa asked me,
"Well, what are we gonna do?"

I said, "I'm not gonna
let anyone disrespect me."

I said to Mike Papa,
"Let's go to one
of Shaun's raves."

I wanted to send a message
back to Shaun,

so we go to The Ice House.

Wow. The Ice House.

I use to come here
back in the day.

Me, and Mike Papa,
a bunch of my friends.

I was on planet Mars
when I walked in here.

It was a bunch of kids
really, running around,
waving glow sticks,

sucking on pacifiers,

they were like
a bunch of babies jumping,
bouncing off walls.

We used to just disperse
and ask who was selling drugs.

This kid came running
right up to us.

He's like, "What'd you want?
I got this kind, this kind,
this kind."

And I said, "Okay.
I want more. Do you got more?"

I'm like, "I'll pay
$20 apiece, I don't care.

I don't care,
just get me a couple hundred."

He ran around the club
probably gathered
from all his little friends.

And he came back, he said,
"I have this, this, and this.

Three different kinds,
it's $200."

I said, "All right,"
and I just took 'em.

He said, "What're you doing?"

I said, "Go tell Shaun

that Gerard took his shit.

And if you don't
walk outta here right now

I'm gonna send you outta here
on a stretcher."

He turned around,
left with his tail
between his legs,

and I sent my message.

I shot my shot.

[phone ringing]

[Shaun] After I found out
that one of my dealers

had been robbed
by Gerard Gravano

I was so determined
not to lose my grip
on the empire.

At that time, in Arizona,
my ego was a big
as the Grand Canyon.

I was a character
in the scene.

I've got all these people
working for me.

I'm the man, Mr. Cool guy.

I was addicted
to the lifestyle.

But rewinding my life back,

it's hard to believe
that I ended up running

an international
ecstasy trafficking operation.

I'm from a chemical
manufacturing town
just outside Liverpool

in the Northwest of England.

Didn't have much money
growing up.

My dad was a door-to-door
insurance salesman.

My mom was a stay-at-home mom
in the beginning.

But for me, one of my early
influences was watching
the movie Wall Street.

Where Michael Douglas
played Gordon Gekko,

this corporate
takeover artist.

Greed, for lack
of a better word,

is good.

[Shaun] So, I wanted
to concur the stock market.

I was gonna go out there
make these millions,

and become
something far removed
from what my father was.

Right now, we're on the M62
to Liverpool

where I was doing
my business studies degree.

So, this road
held promise for me

of, not just education

and forever prospects
in the stock market,
and my career.

But also
[chuckling] eventually

the thing that completely
changed my destine,

which was the rave scene.

[reporter] It's been called
a youth-culture of 1988,

the new sound
is called acid house.

And it's not just
a type of music,
it's a movement.

And it's fueled
with the drug ecstasy.

[Shaun] So, when I saw
these people on TV
I'm thinking,

"I want some of that."

Because I was a shy,
anxious teenager,
no way would I dance.

The thought of dancing
just mortified me.

And then that very first time
I went to the Thunderdome,
all that changed.

When I showed up
at the Thunderdome

my mate scored some ecstasy.

He says,
"You gotta neck the pill."

So, about 30 minutes in

the ecstasy starts to hit.

My body's getting all warm,
my head's tingling,

I've got goosebumps
on my arms,

it's tickling
running up the spine,

my t-shirt feels like
it's melting into my body.

I look up, I'm just smiling
this massive grin.

Boom, boom, boom, boom.

The whole room's moving
this rocking motion.

We're doing this, doing this,

this, and this.

Finally, for my first time
in my life,

I'm loving dancing.

I'm enjoying dancing.

I never want to stop dancing.

When I took ecstasy,
all that stress and tension
melted away.

From that moment on,
raving became my religion.

I never wanted
the party to end.

I sat my final exam
for my degree coming down
off ecstasy.

So, I had all these beeps
and beats,

[mimicking rave music]
going off in my brain

as I'm doing
all these balance,
and payments,

equations, pages
and pages of calculus.

However,

I aced the test.

I've got my education,

and all I can think about now
is going over to America,

concurring the stock market,
and becoming a millionaire
by the time I'm 30.

My Aunt Sue lived in Phoenix.

So, in May 1991,
I'm embarking on my journey
to Arizona.

When I arrived in Phoenix

all I had
was my student credit cards.

But I was so determined
whatever it takes,
I'm gonna rise up in America.

My first two years in Phoenix
was a penny stock
brokerage outfit,

I'm barely making ends meet.

I'm running out of money
on my student credit cards.

But as we get to years
three and four

I start becoming the guy
who's getting the most leads.

[chuckles] And my commissions
are going through the roof.

By 1996 I'm the top producer
and stock broker.

My commissions for that year
were over $500,000.

It was then that I realized
the money was great.

But I was getting
burnt out on the rat race,
I needed an escape.

And then one night I went
to the Silver Dollar Club.

Entering the Silver
Dollar Club,

could feel the goosebumps
on my arms

as I saw the DJ,
strobe lights,
hands in the air.

The music that I'd enjoyed
in England was just creeping
into the Arizona scene.

So I said,
"We gotta get some ecstasy."

So, we're looking around
and there was this big guy,

Moo his name was,
with a bull ring
through his nose.

And he's the guy
who hooked us up with ecstasy
for the first time in Phoenix.

So, as soon as that kicked in,
then I was just right at home.

Dancing my ass off
all night long.

Talking to strangers.

Meeting the DJs.

I was having the absolute
time of my life.

Ecstasy was virtually
impossible to source
in Phoenix, Arizona.

The most we could get
from the local dealers
was 50 to 100.

In the beginning,
I was just showing off

giving them to my friends
for free.

But the demand for ecstasy
is so high

I can't even get enough
to hook up my friends.

So, I'm seeing that there
is an arbitrage opportunity.

If we can find out
where these guys
are getting them from,

there's a possibility here
of making a lot of cash fast.

Found out that the locals
were getting them

from this surfer, gangster guy
called Saul out of California.

Arranged a meeting with Saul
and do my first

interstate, bulk
ecstasy transaction.

And they were going
for $25 to $30 back then.

Those pills were gone
in one weekend.

Now I saw
this other path of parting,

chemical fueled happiness.

A lure
that completely demolished

the worth of wall street
side of me.

That's when I made
the decision to go full-time

and try making money
from ecstasy and raves.

And that's when the guy
nicknamed Schooly
came into my life.

At the beginning,
I'm like, "Hey, man.
I wanna get a bunch of pills.

I wanna make some money.

Like, I really don't
have a place to live,
I need to get my hustle on."

[Shaun] He was living rough.

Smoking crack,
eating out of dumpsters.

And people warned me
to avoid him.

But my attitude
was to give everybody
an opportunity.

He said, "If you can
get rid of these pills for me,
I'll give you a job."

[snaps fingers]
He sold 'em like that.

I think English Shaun
first saw me as an investment.

And then it turned into
a friendship,

and then into a brotherhood.

And we just
hung out all the time,
we partied together.

And we called each other
Little Brother
and Big Brother.

[British accent]
Little Brother.

[regular voice] I could
count on him for anything.

He got me out of a lot
of problems and...

he did a lot for me.

He made sure
I had a place to live,

he paid for everything,
and in return, I made him
a lot of money, you know.

[Shaun] With Schooly
at my side

I was at the top of a
multimillion-dollar monopoly.

But eventually all monopolies
attract competition.

[Gerard] English Shaun
was selling the finest.

This guy's gonna knock us
outta business 'cause we can't
even compete with him anymore.

So, to take out
English Shaun's empire

I needed to step-up
our supply.

Somehow we got on the road
and go back and forth
to New York.

That was just picking up
50,000 pills.

We were selling these things
so quick.

I had different looking pills
than Shaun's,

they were red and white,
they were everywhere.

And everyone knew
they were coming from me.

Shaun had to be feeling
the pressure.

[Shaun] We started noticing
a new flood of colored pills
hitting the market.

I knew we needed
to step-up our game.

So, I started flying Schooly
directly to LA
to ramp up our buys.

Pre-9/11 security was easy.

No dogs, no Homeland Security.

You could walk from your car
to the gate without going
through any security.

But in LA, any bag
that you have

you have to send through
the X-ray machine.

I'm trying to figure out
a new way every time

to get these pills
back on the plane with me.

Nobody can see anything
taped to your legs

when you're wearing
huge JNCO jeans
going through security.

I could have probably taped
a German shepherd [chuckling]
to my legs and got through.

I got really nervous
all the time

'cause I didn't know
if this was gonna be the time
that I go to jail or not.

But nothing ever happened.

I had a stack
of plane tickets
like this.

I don't know how many times
I went to LA, probably
75-80 times.

[reporter] Ecstasy,
the euphoric happy pills,

are the dynamic fuel
that propel all-night
rave parties

to go on, and on, and on.

Over the last two years
America has seen a 71%
increase in teen ecstasy use.

[reporter] Researchers
are now linking ecstasy
to fatal high blood pressure,

killer kidney trouble,
and even deadly heart failure.

It's dangerous,
it's addictive, it's deadly,
and it needs to stop.

I didn't know anything
about ecstasy until I got told
that I was gonna supervise

a teenage enforcement squad

to try to lower
the teenage drug use

in the Phoenix
metropolitan area.

We actually inserted
detectives in high schools

and did the whole
21 Jump Street thing.

Not knowing where it was gonna
take us.

That's when we first
found out about this
ecstasy-rave-club-culture.

I always listened
to '80s rock.

Some harder stuff like AC/DC,
and Led Zeppelin,

and I'm from New Jersey,
so of course
Bruce Springsteen.

But this club, rave scene
was not that, I can tell ya.

During our surveillance,
I remember me parked
outside one of the raves.

I just remember seeing
the crazy lights,

and the thumping
of that techno music
just vibrating our whole car.

And we were like,
"What in the heck did we
get ourselves into?"

I think we were
one of the first units
in the country

that actually proactively
went into the raves
and started making buys.

Matt Shay's probably
one of the best undercover
officers I've seen.

I was just in my mid-twenties.

We had a lot of fun going out
and making undercover buys.

Rose was on the same squad,

she's prefect for the part,
this beautiful, young, narc.

Super easy for her
to get in with a crowd,
she fit right in.

As a young child I wanted
to be a Charlie's Angel,

and so it was fun
being somebody else.

Did my hair up goofy like.

Put some, you know,
pink in there.

And just kinda made ourselves
free-loving, I guess,
you could say.

During the investigation
I worked undercover
at The Ice House.

When I came in
I was just shocked.

It was just super-crazy loud.

Thump, thump,
thump, thump, thump.
Over and over again.

'Cause they were
using ecstasy.

A lot of them were underage
17, 18, 19 year olds.

Pretty much as soon
as we walked in

people started
coming over and asking,
do we want anything.

And we just started
making buys.

[James] We didn't make arrests
right away.

One guy would come to a rave
with 1,000 pills

and put 'em in the hands
of 20 kids

and then let them
go out and sell.

So, we were trying to identify
the next level up.

[Rose] When we started
asking around about
who was behind the drugs,

the same guy kept coming up
over and over again.

And that was English Shaun.

[Matthew] He was a major
supplier of ecstasy.

He was an entrepreneur
in drug dealing, right?

He provided the whole package.

And hand over fist,
he made a ton of money.

But he's not the only guy
that sells ecstasy
in this town.

[Rose] During
the investigation we found out
there was another seller

infringing on English Shaun.

[James] And that's how
we ended up bouncing into
Mike Papa.

Mike Papa was involved
in a variety of crimes,

and one of those crimes
is selling drugs

in the metro Phoenix area.

[James] So, when we started
looking at Mike Papa we were
in a whole different league.

You know,
they didn't go to raves,

they didn't go
to that lower-end
street level stuff.

They were
in the high-end clubs
in Scottsdale.

[Rose] He was more
about money, and looks,
and being important.

He was not about partying
and looking like a raver.

[James]
That was a phone call
that we captured

on our wire tap
form Mike Papa's phone.

That call was significant
because Mike Papa's phone

was registered back
to Marathon Construction.

So, another detective and I
went to that location
to do some surveillance.

I was looking
through binoculars

and I was like, "Oh, my God!

I can't believe it.

It's Sammy
'The Bull' Gravano."

[Matthew] That's fantastic,
yeah.

Bring him on in Phoenix
and drop him down
on top of us

and then leave him alone.
That's a great idea.

The investigators thought,

"All right, if Sammy's gonna
come and play in our sandbox

then we're gonna
get him dirty."

[Gerard] I'm gonna tell ya
a story about Dad.

My father, he never sold drugs
his entire life
in the streets.

And he could've made
millions of dollars
selling drugs.

He never did it.

When I was in a powerhouse,
in New York,

drugs were coming in, heroin,
I was never involved.

I didn't want that kinda heat
or those kinda people.

[Gerard] Look, now his son
is selling drugs.

Obviously, he knew.
He stayed away a little bit.

I guess he was probably trying
to think how he could approach

the situation
in a different way
to get me to stop.

And then, one day,
he came to me and said,

"Hey, how can I help you
get outta this whole thing?"

And I didn't want him going
to New York anymore.

[Gerard] I said,
"Okay, you want us
out of this,

we need to make
about three or four big buys,
we need cash."

We needed a $150,000 per buy.

I would've never accepted that
back in Staten Island.

But I became
a little more liberal
than I normally was.

I didn't wanna bully him
or do anything like that.

I wanted him
to understand that for himself
to wanna pull away.

So, I said, "Listen.

if I fund four deals,

four big deals,

would you give me your word
that you guys would quit?

You'd have a pocket
full of money

and then come with me
in a legitimate businesses."

[Gerard] He explained
that there's heat
that comes with this,

there's long prison sentences.

You can't do this
for a long period of time.

So, four deals
and then you're done.

But I want interest
on my money.

Like, I would lend it out
as a gangster.

Yeah, of course my father
was gonna take his cut
off of it.

My father's still who he is.
He's still Sammy "The Bull."

[Gerard] And we all sat there
and agreed.

And I funded four deals.

[Gerard]
With my father's money,

me and Mike
can now muscle into
Shaun's LA connection.

[Shaun] Gerard Gravano
and Mike Papa

expanded their source
from New York to LA.

So, I did something radical.

I'm thinking, "We need
to take this to Holland."

[reporter] Amsterdam
is a lesser-known side

the tourist guides
tend to omit.

Over 90% of ecstasy
is manufactured in Holland.

Shaun started to look
to Amsterdam to find pills.

And they were less
than half the price,

they were $2 or $3 a pill
versus $8.50 a pill.

Somebody just had to fly
over there and get 'em.

[Shaun] We had people
fly over to Holland,

picked up the pills,

flew to Mexico City,

and brought in the pills
over the Arizona border
from Mexico.

Shipment sizes increased
from the 5,000 to 10,000
I could get out of LA

up to 10s of thousands
of pills per load.

The most we brought in
was 40,000 pills stacked
in computer towers.

So, you're talking
hundreds of thousands
of dollars profit.

In the beginning,
we were wrapping the money,
it was going into sports bags.

But the money
started coming in so fast

I had to figure out strategies
to launder it.

To maximize my profits,

I drew on all of the knowledge
I'd gleaned

from my business
studies education.

I flew people from the UK,
opened bank accounts
in their names,

opened stock market accounts
in their names.

And once that money
went into that account

it then went
into a spider's web
of various accounts

in the stock market.

It's been said
that I ultimately ended up

with a case
of gangster capitalism.

I would never
consider myself a gangster.

I would say that I was
a business graduate nerd

that had a huge case
of gangsteritis.

And gangsteritis

means that I've watched
too many movies

and TV programs
like Miami Vice and Scarface.

I was attracted
to the adrenaline,
and the buzz,

and the glamorization
of that world.

Myself and my friends
would joke

we're living like characters
out of a movie.

Blah, blah, blah,
we'll never get caught.

We had all of these
grandiose delusions.

[reporter] While illegal
drug laboratories persist
in producing ecstasy

Congress has recently enforced
stringent new prison sentences

for those engaged
in trafficking drugs.

There's no doubt
about where these raves are.

In the middle of the desert.

Arrest the promoter.

[James] We had
two investigations
going on at the same time.

And then when Sammy
"The Bull" popped up
during a surveillance

the Gravano investigation
became our main focus.

Once we knew
that Marathon Construction

was associated
with Sammy "The Bull" Gravano

we went out there,
2:00 or 3:00 in the morning,

and break into his office
and install some art bugs.

[phone ringing]

[James] As our
investigation advanced,

we started learning
what their daily habits were

and some
of the important locations.

Marathon Construction,
the second being Sammy
"The Bull's" apartment.

And then,
Uncle Sal's Restaurant,
which is in Scottsdale.

They would do drug deals

either in the front
parking lot or the back
parking lot.

It was an excellent place
for us to be able to identify

different members
of the organization
interacting with each other.

It was right out of a movie
about mobsters,
quite honestly, right?

They would all come in,

shake hands,
and have a great time.

Sit in the back
and allegedly discuss business
and whatever else.

[operatic music playing]

[Gerard] At this time,
our sales dropped
dramatically.

We were now only selling
10,000 pills a week.

And I knew English Shaun
was selling up to
140,000 a week.

I knew a couple of his dealers
and I called them in.

We told 'em,
"Tell English Shaun

Arizona is ours.

Every pill he sells
from here on out

he needs to pay us 50%
on every pill
he fucking sells."

So, they went and brought
that message to him.

[Shaun] I heard that Gerard
and Papa were threatening
to tax my sales.

I had to take
this threat seriously

because his operation
was being funded
by none other than...

Sammy "The Bull" Gravano.

I'm thinking, "What the hell
is going on here?"
I couldn't believe it.

In my mind,
I'm running the calculation.

Sammy "The Bull,"
he's wacked a bunch of people,

but he's no longer
with the mafia.

I wasn't going to backdown,
but I knew I needed
to increase my security.

This picture
is myself and Wild Man,
my best friend from childhood.

Wild Man always had my back.
He would take a bullet for me.

And as crazy as it sounds,

growing up,
Wild Man reminded me

of a character
from one of my Marvel Comics.

This maniac that's got
these massive muscles
and brute force strength,

who's about to crush
Ironman's head in
with this rock

symbolizes Wild Man.

So, I flew Wild Man
from England to Phoenix.

[Schooly] He fit that role,
it worked out so well.

You owed money,
Wild Man would go collect.

If there was a problem

or somebody
was threatening you,

you brought Wild Man with you.

I've seen him...

hit people
and knock 'em five feet
into a refrigerator.

I mean, he was a big

brick shithouse.

[Shaun] Now,
we had a protective shield.

But I was wondering how long
the peace would last.

[Schooly] I was at a club
one night,

two kids came up to buy pills.

Went to the bathroom
to make the deal.

Stuck my hand
in my pocket to get the pills
and next thing I know...

I'm lying on the floor.

And I'm like, "What the fuck
just happened?"

I was knocked out.

Two of 'em sucker punched me.

Checked my pockets,
my money was gone,
my pills were gone.

I'm like, "Ah, hell no.
This is some bullshit."

[Shaun] When information
came in

that some of the Gravano
people linked to the attack
on Schooly were our property

Wild Man jumped up and said,
"Let's go over there
right away.

Nobody fucking
rips the English off!"

Four car loads
showed up to this house,
12 o'clock at night.

[Shaun] There was a bunch
of us armed to the teeth.

[Schooly] One person
knocked on the door,
soon as they opened the door

everybody in the house.

[Shaun] So, we're charging
into this house.

Guns drawn.

It's almost like your brain
goes in slow-motion.

And I can hear
Wild Man yelling,
"Don't fucking move!"

It's like a fucking movie.

We went through every room.
We took everything
outta that house.

PlayStations, VCRs,
TVs, shoes.

I mean, if it was worth $5
it came outta that house
into somebody's car,

we cleaned that house out.

We didn't get the drugs back,
but we got everything
they owned.

[Shaun] And we just took off
into the night after that.

When I found out,
my first reaction
was anger and rage.

And everyone's
looking at me, like,
"What are you gonna do?"

The way I grew up,
this is how people get killed.

I said, "Okay."

I put the word out there
to everyone I knew,

the second someone sees
English Shaun to call us.

I need to know where he's at,
I need to find him.

I can't be disrespected.
Everyone was watching,
everyone.

So, one night
I got a phone call

telling me that English Shaun
was at the Crowbar.

Four, five of us
got in the car, we headed down
to the Crowbar.

I had two or three guns on me
and I had a shovel
in the back of my car.

Plan was to walk up to him,
choke him out,
put him to sleep,

carry him out,
put him in the car.

I was prepare to kill him
and bury him in the desert.

[Gerard] We pull right up
to the Crowbar.

We all walked in,

place was crowed,
people dancing.

We were looking
for English Shaun.

But I couldn't find him.

He was gone.

[Shaun] It's downhill
from there, it just gets more
and more dangerous.

I no longer felt safe
living in the Phoenix area.

[Schooly] Everybody got
real protected.

And everybody's
getting violent

and it's not raving,
it's not fun anymore.

Now it's...

who's gonna get shot?
Who's gonna get kidnapped?

Like, who's gonna get robbed?
Like... And this
is an everyday thing.

Everything was falling apart.

And then, I was told
that Sammy "The Bull"
had a hit out on me.

They were offering
$10,000 for my head
on a silver platter.

Now, I was having dreams
at night of people bursting
through the door,

putting a gun to my face,
taking me out to the desert.

I was in a living hell.

I was doing more drugs
and the side effects
were rising in the background.

Paranoia,

the malnourishment,
the sleepless nights,

the mental deterioration.

Everything just seemed to go
down all at the same time,

my organization
and my psychology.

[Schooly] And now Gravano's
were flooding the market
with 1,000s of pills,

so our business dried up.

Like, the money
wasn't there anymore.

They took all the market.
They killed our empire.

[Rose] We knew that Mike Papa
and Gerard pushed
English Shaun out.

And Gerard became
the king of ecstasy with Sammy
as the money behind it.

[James] During our Papa
and Gravano wiretap

we were getting
circumstantial stuff

through Gerard's phone,
Mike Papa's phone.

And then,
we had a breakthrough.

[James] Mike Papa was
negotiating an ecstasy deal
with a supplier in LA.

[James] The deal
was for around $140,000
or 25,000 ecstasy pills.

[James] The next day,
when the confirmation was made
to meet the courier

we followed Mike Papa
to a parking garage.

This meeting and purchase
with the supplier by Papa

was gonna be monumental
in our case.

We're gonna get
one shot at this
and we need to make it happen.

The courier
had the red duffle bag
with the pills.

We watched those drugs
go from the courier to Papa.

And then,
the courier getting out
of Mike Papa's car

with the bag
full of the $140,000.

You know,
in my head I'm thinking,

"Okay, we got Papa,
the courier,

locked down from that deal
in the conspiracy.

Let's see who we get next."

After the meeting,
we continually tracked
Mike Papa.

We were hoping
that he would go back
to where Sammy Gravano was.

And that's exactly
what he did.

We knew he had
the red duffle bag
with the pills.

And we saw him go into
Marathon Construction.

There was another plus that,

"Hey, we're getting closer
to getting Sammy wrapped up
in this whole conspiracy."

Ironically enough,
it was Sammy's mistake

that really solidified
everything and did him in.

This call was significant
because it showed that Sammy

was an active participant
in financing the ecstasy
drug deals.

When he had an argument
with Debra, his ex-wife.

[James] Sammy made a miscount
on the next $70,000 deal

and he called Debbie
and he said, "Hey,
I'm counting it, it's short."

She said, "It shouldn't be.
You know, I counted it myself.

Gave it to your daughter,
Karen. She brought it to ya."

And, you know,
at the same time

we have the hardwired bug
in Marathon hearing
the money counter running.

Continuous slapping
of the money sorting through.

He ends up counting it again
and the recount, you know,
he counts it right.

[James] Sammy making
that miscount and associating
with his family on the phone

was pivotal in our case.

His miscount really solidified
that he was financing
the purchase of the ecstasy.

But shortly after that call

he heard an electric
screwdriver that we felt
was very close to our bug.

[screwdriver whirring]

Right after the stop
of the electric screwdriver

you could hear
Sammy get agitated

and then start singing
really loud in Italian.

[Sammy singing]

[James] And then,
walk out the back door.

[Karen] We were all
in the office and my father
had called us outside.

We went in the back
of the Marathon Construction
office and he said,

"Something is going on.

I feel it,
there's a presence here.

I don't know if it's the mob
from New York,

I don't know if cops
are following,

but whatever you guys have,
if you have anything
in the house,

anything's going on,
make sure it's done.

I don't want it around me,
I don't want it around
any of us."

And everyone agreed.

[Sammy] I was in bed.

And I had a little dog,
he was 6-pounds.

He'd sleep with me in the bed,
right between my legs,
hanging out.

And I hear him growling.

Hair's up on his back
and he's growling.

[dog barking]

So, right next to the bed
I had the .357 Magnum.

I picked it up,

I moved the blinds
a little bit,

and when I moved the blinds...

Police! On the ground!

[Sammy] ... SWAT teams
came crashing in.

Kicked, punched,
banged down to the ground.

I could see out of the corner
of my eye the dog
was fucking flipping out.

[dog barking]

I understand
there was 200 cops,

helicopters, armored vehicles
to arrest me.

By myself.

When they opened the door
I had put the gun down,
I had nothing.

But underwear.

I don't know
what they thought I was,

but I think
it was more of a show.

[James] After we arrested
Sammy "The Bull" Gravano

we got him down
to our processing center

and he immediately started

scanning all the paperwork
on the desk.

Trying to evaluate,
you know, how bad it is
or what's going on.

So, I started
telling everybody,
"Hey, flip the papers over."

He looked up at me right then
and said, "So, you're running
this whole show?"

And I think my reply was,

"No. I'm just a working man
like you, Sammy."

When they took me
in I walked passed cages.

In one cage I saw my son,

I saw my daughter,

I saw my ex-wife.

I see my whole family
in different cages.

It broke my heart.

It really did,
it broke my heart.

My official charge
was illegal use

of an electronic
communication
in a drug transaction.

They believed
that I was someone
that passed messages

from my father
to the street organization.

I got probation
because I didn't have priors.

They didn't really
have too much on my father,
but they had a lot on Gerard.

The fucked up thing
about this whole thing is
when we all got arrested

my father had nothing
to do with this, they had
very little to go on with him.

He may have been looking
at six years.

I'm looking at 40.
I'm dead-cold.

I'm wiretaps, there's no way
to get outta this whole thing
for me.

But then,
the Federal Government
got involved

and everything went crazy.

[James] The FBI were so mad
that Sammy went back to crime.

And, frankly,
I felt like they got
a little egg on their face.

The most importance to them
was charging Sammy.

They told me right away that,
"We want this guy.
We wanna prosecute him."

Sammy "The Bull" was the money
behind the operation.

was definitely the face.

[detective speaking]

[detective speaking]

When I look at that,
that's bullshit.

And that's a threat.

I would like to be sitting

in front of that cop...

...with my .357 Magnum

pointed in his fucking face,

and say, "Do you wanna
cooperate with me now
before I pull the trigger?"

He will be number 20.

[detective speaking]

This kid, he broke
before he got in the room.

He didn't even get
a slap in the face.

Mob guys in New York,

you gotta kick their balls
around a little bit...

...for them to break.
When you're facing
a slap in the face,

take the slap, motherfucker.

[Karen]
People would look at that
and say he's a rat, right?

I look at it and say
he's a snake

because I think
this was something

that he was always planning
on doing

if he got in trouble.

[Gerard] He knew he was gonna
do that the day he met me.

In that restaurant
Uncle Sal's,

when he introduced
himself to me,

and I agreed
to go out with him,

he already knew
he was gonna do that.

He had his mind made up.

He had a get out of jail
free card.

And he was gonna betray me
no matter what.

From the day I started
to the day I got arrested
was six months.

Even at the age of 77,

if I can get off this chair
quick enough,

I will probably break
the fucking chair

right over his head.

Not so much what he did to me.

What he did to my son

who treated him
like a brother.

[Rose] When it came down
to everything,

Mike Papa ratted out Sammy,

which is ironic because Sammy
did that do to the Mafia.

What do you want me
to say about this?
This is bullshit.

I cooperated
because John Gotti
did something

that was a rat move.

His defense was trying to say

that I was killing everybody
and taking over everything.

So the theory was
I would go away
and he would go free.

In my mind I said,
"Then fuck you,
fuck the Mafia,

and I'm leaving,
and I'm gonna switch sides."

Whatever happens, happens.

So I decided to walk
the fuck away

from the Mafia and him.

Now, can I get rid
of this fucking thing?

Now, even with Mike Papa,

my lawyers were telling me,
"You could beat this,

but they're gonna
bury your son.

Your wife is pinched.

Your daughter is pinched."

When I asked the lawyer,
"Then what do they want?"

"They want you, Sammy.

They want you to say
you're the boss of it.

They want you to say
you ran it all,

you took over Arizona,

you did everything."

[Gerard] And they told him,
"You need to take 20 years,

and we'll let your wife,
your daughter go,

we'll give your son
a light sentence,"

which 10 years to them
was a light sentence.

"But you have to take
20 years."

And I told my lawyer,
"Make the deal.
I did it all."

And that's exactly what I did.

Am I a rat?
I took fucking 20 years

to help my kids and my family.
Is that a rat?

He didn't sacrifice himself
the first time
with John Gotti,

wouldn't do it for nothing.

But for his family,
he fell on the sword.

I think we all have to admit

that we have not stopped

the flow of ecstasy
with this case.

What we have done
with this case

is shut down
a major drug organization

that was operating
in this valley,

and hopefully
send a message that, um,

we will take action.

[Shaun]
"Sammy the Bull" Gravano's
ecstasy operation

had brought unnecessary heat
to the ecstasy scene
in Arizona.

So I retreated to an apartment
in Scottsdale

and didn't even let
most of the people
I used to associate know

where I lived.

But Schooly, Wild Man,
and his girlfriend, Wild Woman

remained in Phoenix's
drug-fueled world.

The closest people
to English Shaun at the time

would be me, Wild Man,
and Wild Woman.

She really caused me
more problems than anything.

She was a pain in the ass,
honestly.

This apartment
is Wild Woman's apartment.

This building has had
so much drugs run through it.

He didn't hide anything,
it was out in the open.

She had 300 people a day
running in here, day, night.

We were gonna get arrested
because of her.

Everything was
gonna fall apart
because of how many people

she had running in and out
of this place.

I never said anything
to English Shaun about that

'cause at that time,
Shaun and I were on, like,
the fringe

because Wild Woman started
to kinda come in between
me and Shaun.

She started to cause a riff.

She was making up stories
about me, like,

to make him like her
more than me.

I just thought,
"This dude's abandoning me,

he's replacing me
with these other people.

This is some bullshit."

I was thinking, "Wild Woman's
fucking everything up."

I needed to shut
this place down, honestly,

'cause this was gonna
get us all in trouble.

I bought this smoke bomb
at the Spy Store
in Downtown Phoenix.

I went to her house...

...jumped out of the car,
pulled it out,

lit it on fire,
as soon as it started sparking

I went up and pulled it back,
and just [mimics hissing].

And I just took off running.

And you could just see smoke
already coming out,

shooting out the window,

and you just heard people

running and screaming
for their lives.

They had no idea
what the fuck was going on.

Wild Woman was near the window
when the fire bomb came in.

It just missed her,
and I think she's got

something on her face still
to this day.

[Schooly]
After all that stuff happened
with Wild Man and Wild Woman,

I thought something bad
was gonna happen to me.

Wild Man was telling everybody
he was gonna murder Schooly
for fire-bombing his woman.

Schooly was so fearful
for his life,

he fled the state.

I never spoke to him again.

I had to stay away,

and that's really
about the time

that I dipped the fuck out.

There's no going back.

It was over
between me and Shaun.

And then May 16th 2002,

bam! bam! bam! bam!,
[mimics door opening]
a door flies off its hinges,

and there's screaming,
"Hands above your head!

Get on the fucking ground now!

Don't fucking move!"

As I dropped to the floor,

I realized everything
I'd ever done wrong
in my life,

I now had
to pay the price for.

They cuffed me,

and one of the detectives
just hoisted me up...

...and was in my face,
and he was like,

English Shaun,
we've finally got you."

And the question
in my mind was

"Who betrayed me?"

[Schooly]
Before they arrested Shaun,

I got arrested
for cashing bad checks

because I'm broke
and I spun out on drugs.

I'm like, "What do I gotta do
to get outta this charge?"

The cops were like,
"Well, tell me something
I don't know."

I just told them about
an ecstasy operation.

I kinda gave them stories,

rundowns about Wild Man
and English Shaun.

And he's like, "You gotta
prove it to me.

"Okay." I said,
"Let me walk out
and go to my house

and I'll bring you back
a stack of plane tickets

that show I went to LA
every week.

And so I brought them back
that stack of ticket stubs,

and no charges filed,
they let me ride.

When I found out that Schooly
had gone to the cops,

I was heartbroken...

...that my little brother
had gone that far.

I hadn't anticipated that.

If you're my big brother
and you got my back,

then you should always
have my back.

And if you're gonna discard me

for these other
fucking people, then...

...it is what it is, you know.

I sure as hell ain't gonna
bite the bullet for somebody

that ain't gonna be there
for me in the end.

[interviewer speaking]

Loyalty, and I live by that.

[interviewer speaking]

Yeah, always.

Till the end. [chuckles]

Until the end.

Yeah.

When, uh, when the ship sinks,

I guess everybody
runs their own way.

You know.

[Shaun] I was sentenced
to nine and a half years.

I served 26 months
in Sheriff Joe Arpaio's

Maricopa County Jail system,

the jail system that had
the highest rate of death
in America.

And to my shock and surprise,
my prison mate was none other
than Gerard Gravano.

One day, Gerard told me
about his plans

the night he came
looking for me
at the Crobar Nightclub.

I hadn't realized how close
I'd come to death.

It's been about 23 years
since the last time
I was here.

Came in right in
this back door right here.

We were here looking
for English Shaun.

Place was crowded,
people dancing.

But he was gone
before I got here.

As we walking
in this back door,

he was walking
out the front door.

We missed him
literally by seconds.

[crowd cheering]

But I was relieved actually

at the end of the day
that he wasn't here...

...because I was prepared
to kill him that night
in the desert...

...only because it was
expected of me.

People expected me
to be violent,

people expected me
to go on robberies

because I was the son
of "Sammy the Bull."

I was pushed to be
someone I'm really not.

I grew up in the shadow
of the "Bull."

-[doves cooing]
-Well, growing up
in Staten Island,

in our backyard
we had these doves.

We had a pigeon coop,
and we used to have feed.

But by having these,
stray, real ugly gray pigeons
used to come.

But we used to have a BB gun.

And we used to shoot them,
and they used to fall
off the roof,

die, and put them in a bag,
and throw them away,
it was pretty normal.

One day, I hit the bird...

[pigeon coos]

...and he rolled off my roof
and hit the floor.

But he wasn't dead.

So I cocked the gun again,

I was gonna shoot him.

My father said,
"No, don't shoot him."

He said, "I want you
to pick him up,

and I want you
to snap his neck
and throw him in the bag."

I looked at the bird.

I looked at my father.

I said, "I can't do it.
I just can't

fucking snap his neck
and throw him in the bag."

I could not fucking do it.

That's my father testing me
to see am I cut out
for that life in the Mafia?

And I wasn't.

I didn't pass his test.

And the same thing
happened here in Arizona.

They expected me
to kill people.

Mike Papa was in my ear,

"You're being disrespected,

you're being disrespected,

you're being disrespected."

And then I get a call
that Shaun Attwood

is here at this place.
And I said, "Okay,

I'll show you
what disrespect is."

But ultimately,
at the end of the day,

I probably couldn't
have done it.
I sit here and say

that's what I was planning
on doing that night,

but I may have got him
out to the desert,

and I just couldn't
have done it.

So when English Shaun
came into the jail
we formed a friendship.

I didn't have any problems
with him after that.

It was over.

Chapter closed.

[Shaun] Spending time
with Gerard Gravano in jail,

he opened up to me
about his struggles,

the pressure on him
to make a name for himself,

to be someone,
'cause he's got this dad

who's a legendary figure.

And then the threats
to the family's lives.

The constant need for safety.

It really opened my heart
to what he'd been through.

For me,
over the following weeks,

I started to look back
at the last 10 years
of my life,

and said to myself,

"Shaun, my God,
what have you done?

How on Earth
are you still alive?"

Doing an increasing amount
of drugs over the years

had eroded my conscience
and put a cloud in my head
that I didn't know was there.

I'd surrounded myself
with people

engaging in equally insane
and criminal behavior,

and there was nobody
to put the brakes on.

I had to be pushed
to the brink to get

the English Shaun persona
crushed out of me.

It was a moment
of truth for me

that I'd been trying
to hide from

throughout the whole time
in Arizona.

In all these story arcs
of drug trafficking,

it begins with the glitz,
the glamour, the fun...

...then the cops, the heat,
the competition,

and then
the slippery slope down.

[crows cawing]

There's a hell of a price
to be paid

if you get involved
in the lifestyle.

Most of the men
from my inner circle

have paid the ultimate price
of death,

including Wild Man.

When I found out
that Wild Man had died,

my brain wouldn't accept it.

And then the next day,
that was it then,

that's when it just
started hitting me.

And there was an owl howling.

And I hadn't heard
an owl howl where I live.

And I thought it was him
saying goodbye to me.

[sniffles]

Part of owning up to my past
is coming to terms
with the fact

that I brought my best mate
Wild Man to Arizona.

He ended up in jail
for seven years.

And he died a young man
back in our hometown.

I can't forgive myself
for that

because it's something
I've got to live with

for the rest of my life.

Oh, where were we now?

[indistinct speaking]

[Shaun] When I walked
out the gate and saw my mom,
dad, and sister smiling,

my excitement just went
through the roof

even though I'd been
awake for days.

I arrived in Phoenix, Arizona
with no cash,
only credit cards.

I burnt through millions
over the years.

And I came back on UK soil

with a boxful
of worthless belongings
from prison.

Looking back,
one of my worst memories

is having to call my parents

and tell them I'd been
incarcerated for drug dealing.

I thought I was so smart,
above the law,
never get caught,

or even if I did get caught,
I could insulate myself
from you guys finding out.

-Mmm.
-My friends wouldn't
get arrested with me.

-I've got money over here.
I could get a lawyer.
-Mmm.

-All that kind of stuff.
-Got it covered.

But I was wrong,

it was my own miscalculations.

Caused absolute devastation
in your lives.

It was dreadful,
and your mom was in pieces

'cause we didn't know
what we were gonna do.

And I think that same night,

we got a reverse call
from yourself.

Do you remember?
And it was you with this
frightened voice

saying, "You need to raise
as much money as possible
to get a good attorney."

Having to ask you guys
for money

which was a horrible thing
to do.

[Shaun's dad] Mmm-hmm.

But I didn't understand

the full gravity
'cause I think you were
insulating me at that point.

It was early on over how that
affected your lives.

[Shaun's dad] Mmm, oh, yeah.

We just did what we could.

And over the years,
as your mom was working,

she also paid off various

lawyers' fees and legal fees.

The other horrible thing
besides the financial impact,

was my mom's
nervous breakdown.

[Shaun's dad]
She didn't tell anybody
for months.

She wouldn't let me
tell anybody.

[crying] Still feel terrible
for that.

I feel so guilty, dad,
knowing the suffering
I've put youse through.

I would never do anything
like that again.

So sorry, dad.

It's done. It's passed.

-As far as I'm concerned,
it's done.
-[sighs]

We forgive, and there's
nothing to forgive now.

I wanna thank you so much.

I mean, just what you've
said today...

...has made me feel
[chuckles] a lot better
to be honest.

I'm gonna have to give my dad
a hug, I think.

-Not too hard.
I'm fragile, I'm fragile.
-[laughing]

Love you. I love you.
Thank you.

Thank you. Oh, my God.

Let me see if I can get that.

I can't make a shot
if I stood on my head.

We've been through a lot.

And here we are.

In the basement shooting pool.

And, uh, I think you're
the perfect guy

to take over
and fit into my shoes.

Just remember to stay good
and kind with people.

The family, keep it close.

And just do the right thing.
Don't make the mistakes
I made.

I mean, I've been kind-hearted
a lot of...

a good portion of my life.

And I do have the ability
to be violent

even though...

...it's not, you know,
not what I wanna do,

or a lot of times I was acting
because I'm your son.

People expect me to do things.

-Whether...
-Is that what this whole
ecstasy thing was?

The drugs. Doesn't matter
what people want you to be.

Just 'cause I had a big name,
don't live in my shadows.

And know all the good things
I taught you.

The bad stuff,
flush it down the bowl.
Get rid of it.

Step out of the shadows
and be you.

That's what you gotta be.

For a long time I had

a problem doing that.

I got caught up.
I was out here in Arizona,

I meet this kid Mike Papa.

I started to feel like
my old self,

like I was back in New York.

What do you think
about it now?

You think he made you
feel good?

No, and I should have
seen this from day one.

It's gone.

Don't carry baggage on that,

"You fucked up,
and I went to prison,"
and all of this shit.

-It... It happens itself.
-It's a heavy burden, though.

-It's... It's every burden...
I mean...
-No. But get away from it.

-...I put you in prison.
-Understand you made
a mistake.

Don't live with it.
It's... It's over,
it's done with.

We have our lives
started again.

Don't look
in the rearview mirror,

you'll never grow.

Look through the front
windshield, go forward.

I look at him,
he's a great kid.

I call him a kid,
he's not a kid,

he's a man, he's a great man.

But, uh, my life

must have added
so much pressure onto him,

being "Sammy the Bull's" son.

I think the... the Mafia

did some damage.

But it's how you
come out of these things.

[Gerard] You and mom I think
did a great job.

raising me and Karen.

I just try to...

My whole goal now nowadays
is try to instill what...

what we were taught growing up
in my kids.

And I just hope one day
I can be a half as father
as you were.

[sighs]

I think you've already been

twice the father that I am.

But, uh, that's a great
compliment, Gerard.

I appreciate that.

All I can say is people
could only pray to be so lucky

as to I still have you today
to ask you questions,

and to be here for me.

I will always be here for you.

I always will be here for you.

I really, really will.