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Previously on Proven Innocent...
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If someone needs
our help, we don't give a damn
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where they come from.
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We believe the justice system is flawed.
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- The hell's going on?
- Ah, there he is.
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Mr. Bellows. Noah Weiss,
campaign strategist.
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We're gonna need to change the
entire structure of the campaign.
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- This is ridiculous.
- You think that you're there for me, but really,
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- you just show up when you want to be the hero.
- I do not.
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I don't need you saving me
anymore. I'm fine on my own.
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Offer a deal that sends Levi Scott
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to anger management
counseling. I'll do the rest.
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- And you can get him to talk?
- Of course.
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If this was speed
dating, I'd be into it.
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Man, this place is rocking.
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Really makes me rethink
my lifestyle choices.
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Being gay is not a choice, Bodie.
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It is if you love Fox News.
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Ladies! I don't know how
you're pulling it off,
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but you are absolutely killing it.
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Oh, baby, there ain't no pulling
anything off. We tuck it in.
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Do you happen to know where...
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Oh, my God. Madeline?
Madeline Scott, is that you?
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Your trial was the
biggest thing around here.
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We cheered so loud when
you got out of prison.
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We cried, girl.
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- We even had a Madeline Scott night.
- At our bar.
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Everybody came dressed like you.
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- She even wore your hair.
- You do have my hair.
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- It's kind of amazing.
- I do have your hair.
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- You're amazing.
- What are you doing here, mama?
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I'm looking for a law firm. Do
you know where Watts & Watts is?
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Loca, that's right down the street
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and go right around the corner.
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- Perfect, thank you so much.
- Oh, no, baby. Where you going?
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- Oh...
- Get your phone out. We need a selfie.
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- Get in here.
- Girl, no one's gonna believe us.
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We say three, you're
gonna smile, say "yas."
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- Ready? One, two, three.
- Yas!
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Her name is Cindy Whitman.
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She was convicted of killing a
transgender woman back in 1982.
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The victim, Vanessa Evans,
was the most important
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trans activist of her time.
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Cindy is transgender herself,
and the prisons have stopped
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issuing her hormones due to cutbacks.
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I'm suing them to get them back.
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I can't imagine what
she's going through.
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That's like having your
identity ripped away.
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I was friends with a
trans man in prison.
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Taking away his testosterone
would have been like
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- taking away his existence.
- Exactly.
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And to get her hormones
back, I have to prove
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how long she's been on them.
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I confirmed with the
doctor that she's been
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taking them since the
late '70s, which led me
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to a really interesting discovery.
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The blood at the crime scene
matched Cindy's blood type,
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which is AB negative.
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It's the rarest blood type.
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Right, only 0.6% of
the population has it.
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At the time, it was primarily
what they used to convict her.
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But I just discovered
from the lab reports
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that the hormone levels in the blood
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were significantly lower
than that of someone
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- who is transitioning.
- So the blood at the crime scene
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couldn't have been Cindy's.
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I think we have grounds
here to reopen this case.
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I'd say so.
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Which leads me to another problem,
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but I think you're the perfect person
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- to help me with it.
- Why is that?
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Cindy doesn't want to get out of jail.
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Imagine you are looking
at yourself in the mirror.
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It sounds like you
and it looks like you.
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But deep down, you know
this isn't your true self.
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On this week's episode of
Until Proven Innocent,
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we'll explore what
happens when one dares
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to finally live in their truth,
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knowing that so many in the
world will hate them for it.
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I know I'm not much to look at now,
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but you should have
seen me back in the day.
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Mmm. Oh, Lord Jesus, I was fabulous.
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You're still fabulous.
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Really, sweetie?
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I swear on the Bible.
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Mmm. Oh, hell.
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The religious boys, they love me.
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Honey, the bigger the
Bible, the bigger the closet.
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They were always chasing after me.
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Tell us about Vanessa.
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Vanessa Evans was our hero.
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She was one of the bravest
trans activists I knew back then.
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Ness held it down.
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Police report said you got
in a fight the night she died,
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that it was a lover's quarrel.
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Hmm. Yeah.
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Because they thought we
were queer men and not women.
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Vanessa and I, we were never lovers.
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She was like a sister to me.
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But the cops saw me as trans-trash,
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so they threw the book at me.
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Well... thanks to what Garrett found,
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- we think you have a real shot.
- At getting my hormones?
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At getting your conviction overturned.
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You shouldn't have to suffer in jail
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for a crime you didn't commit.
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You know, the real suffering happened
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when I had to live my life as Steve.
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That was torture every day.
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And that torture's coming back
if I don't get my hormones.
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Cindy, why don't you want to get out?
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'Cause there's nothing out there for me.
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Everyone I knew is gone.
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AIDS, hate crimes, suicide.
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40% of trans folks are
trying to kill themselves.
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40%. Can you imagine if
that number was that high
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for any other group of people?
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Honey, there'd be a
telethon around the clock.
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No. I'd rather stay in here.
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But if you really want to help me,
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if you really want to help me,
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get me my hormones, please.
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Because I'll die without them.
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It's as if I've never done
this before or something.
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Wow, I'm a little nervous.
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Oh, I totally get that.
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- I get nervous.
- No, you don't.
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Nervous means like, you know,
you're in the game, like,
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nervous means you want to win.
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Being nervous is good.
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Okay. Right. Nervous is good.
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- Nervous is good.
- I'll just be nervous all the time.
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- That's the spirit.
- Okay, um...
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Our guest today is podcasting icon
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- and my personal hero Ira Glass.
- Glad to be here.
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"Podcasting icon" is such,
like, a funny thing to say.
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Like, I'm this "icon" of this thing
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that most people have never heard of.
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Uh, one of the biggest
challenges in podcasting
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is balancing the story
that you're actually telling
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with some kind of bigger
meaning or message,
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which is something you do effortlessly.
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- What's your secret?
- I mean, honestly, we just try
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to tell the plot of what
happened to a person,
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and then, ideally, they
are the one who have
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the bigger thought or
idea about what it means.
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Um, and then if they don't,
like, then the host or reporter
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can jump in and give that meaning.
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There's a really amazing example
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that I just heard where it was
this story of this 14-year-old,
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who, uh, who the police
would treat as an adult
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because he looked just like an adult.
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And then the host is
the one who jumps in
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with this really beautiful thought
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about how deceptive appearances can be.
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OMG.
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You're talking about my show.
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Yes, I am talking about your
show. Yes, congratulations,
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you recognize your own show.
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Yeah, you're doing such a nice job.
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Thanks again
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- for doing this.
- Totally glad to do it.
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And for pretending to be a fan.
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- That was nice.
- I'm not pretending.
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Your show's really good.
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Thanks.
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Hey, okay, so, I fly out
of here in a couple days.
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What are you doing tomorrow night?
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Um... Oh, I guess I'm,
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I'm doing whatever it
is that you are doing.
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You're funny. Um, do
you want to have dinner?
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I... I, um, I do.
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I do want to have dinner.
That would be nice.
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- That's great. Okay, so, I will be in touch.
- Okay.
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- We will make arrangements, the way that adults do.
- Yeah.
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- Good. All right, great. Okay.
- Great. Thanks.
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So our first goal is to reframe you
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into what I call a hero campaign.
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We lean into your incredible bio,
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display images of you looking heroic.
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Here you are as the
man who saved Chicago.
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A loving husband, American as apple pie.
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Tested great in the burbs.
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This one says Gore Bellows is the law.
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- Powerful.
- Yeah.
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- Forceful.
- Absolutely.
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Makes me look like a winner.
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Which you are, sir.
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Best part is it makes
the campaign about me,
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instead of the Scott case.
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Mayfield was always obsessed
with how Madeline's press
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was affecting my numbers.
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Yeah, I don't want to say
anything negative about him,
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'cause he's a great guy, but
he's an amateur and a hack
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who will lead you to a crushing defeat.
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All right, fighting Madeline
Scott... going tit for tat...
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it puts her at your
level, and she is not.
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She's a murderer.
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- You really believe that?
- I always did.
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I knew you were my guy.
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So you think I should just ignore her?
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I do, I do.
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I mean, unless...
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Unless what?
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Well, attacking her would be a disaster,
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but if you had new evidence...
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... of her guilt...
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I mean, then you would
win in a landslide.
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You mean, recharge her for murder?
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Only if you had new evidence.
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If you had it, you would
dominate every news cycle.
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I believe she's innocent, but
if she doesn't want our help...
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Prison is a hopeless place, we
just need to give her some hope.
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00:09:10,566 --> 00:09:13,099
So, what, we go against
her wishes and do it anyway?
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It's not even ethical to assume
representation for a client
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without their consent.
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00:09:16,905 --> 00:09:18,124
Then let's find some new evidence,
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give her a reason to say yes.
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2018 was one of the most violent years
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in history for transgender women.
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This could be an amazing case
to shine a light on those issues.
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We can't take the case
of someone who doesn't
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want to be exonerated.
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Are you uncomfortable with this case?
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00:09:31,545 --> 00:09:35,547
No. I'd gladly move forward if
she actually wanted our help.
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00:09:35,624 --> 00:09:36,868
Well, she does, she doesn't know it yet.
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00:09:36,892 --> 00:09:38,791
Come on, let's dig around.
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00:09:38,853 --> 00:09:40,533
Let's give her a reason
to change her mind.
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Amazing, isn't it?
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All the hatred for this community.
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All they want to do is just live
their lives for who they are.
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00:09:53,826 --> 00:09:56,568
I wouldn't know anything about that.
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00:09:56,662 --> 00:09:58,570
Does the black community
share any connection
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00:09:58,664 --> 00:10:01,239
with the gay community for
being targeted by hate groups?
235
00:10:01,358 --> 00:10:03,575
Some might say yes because
we both know what it's like
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00:10:03,693 --> 00:10:05,577
to be hated for being who you are,
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00:10:05,695 --> 00:10:08,747
and we're both generally
hated by the same people.
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00:10:08,823 --> 00:10:10,490
But others say you
can hide who you love,
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00:10:10,509 --> 00:10:12,467
but you can't hide
the color of your skin.
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00:10:24,748 --> 00:10:27,482
But what do you do when
you can't hide who you love?
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00:10:37,861 --> 00:10:39,369
No way Cindy killed her.
242
00:10:39,529 --> 00:10:42,039
Cops will pin anything
they can on queer people.
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00:10:42,199 --> 00:10:44,950
- Did you own the bar then?
- No, I was just a server.
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00:10:45,026 --> 00:10:46,710
It was mob-owned, like most gay bars.
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00:10:46,828 --> 00:10:50,881
They walked away in '98 and
someone had to keep it alive.
246
00:10:50,999 --> 00:10:52,549
This bar was special. A safe haven,
247
00:10:52,668 --> 00:10:54,053
where everyone could be themselves.
248
00:10:54,077 --> 00:10:55,460
Everyone?
249
00:10:55,554 --> 00:10:57,963
My understanding is not all gay bars
250
00:10:58,081 --> 00:11:00,632
were welcoming of the trans community.
251
00:11:00,726 --> 00:11:02,801
This wasn't most gay bars, honey.
252
00:11:02,895 --> 00:11:05,395
This was the Tulip.
253
00:11:05,472 --> 00:11:06,638
Vanessa was an icon.
254
00:11:06,732 --> 00:11:08,548
A true hero.
255
00:11:08,567 --> 00:11:11,460
Everybody loved her. Except the cops.
256
00:11:11,462 --> 00:11:12,978
- Why is that?
- The usual.
257
00:11:13,096 --> 00:11:15,722
Thought she was a he and a pervert.
258
00:11:15,741 --> 00:11:18,316
If they weren't harassing her,
they were putting her in cuffs
259
00:11:18,393 --> 00:11:21,060
for prostitution, and
believe me, she wasn't.
260
00:11:21,121 --> 00:11:23,655
- Walking while trans.
- That's right, honey.
261
00:11:23,773 --> 00:11:26,491
You look visibly trans on the street,
262
00:11:26,568 --> 00:11:27,771
cops cuff and say you're a prostitute.
263
00:11:27,795 --> 00:11:30,996
In my community, it's
walking while black.
264
00:11:31,114 --> 00:11:33,090
Now imagine being black and trans.
265
00:11:33,250 --> 00:11:34,961
'Cause that's what these
girls had to live with.
266
00:11:34,985 --> 00:11:37,594
I remember a few days
before she was killed,
267
00:11:37,754 --> 00:11:40,171
some jerk accosted Vanessa.
He was obsessed with her.
268
00:11:40,266 --> 00:11:43,100
And when she called it
off, he went after her.
269
00:11:43,260 --> 00:11:45,936
Then the cops arrest
Vanessa for assault.
270
00:11:46,096 --> 00:11:47,587
Do you know who this guy was?
271
00:11:47,606 --> 00:11:49,922
No, but I'll ask around.
272
00:11:49,984 --> 00:11:52,025
A few of us are still
alive from those days.
273
00:11:53,061 --> 00:11:54,611
A few.
274
00:12:01,662 --> 00:12:02,786
You wanted to see me?
275
00:12:02,863 --> 00:12:04,195
Yes, come on in. Come on in.
276
00:12:04,290 --> 00:12:07,182
So... this is the big day.
277
00:12:07,184 --> 00:12:08,867
Your first day in court.
278
00:12:08,961 --> 00:12:10,519
It's just a P.C. hearing.
279
00:12:10,521 --> 00:12:12,037
First P.C. hearing in court.
280
00:12:12,131 --> 00:12:14,539
Here. Congratulations.
281
00:12:14,657 --> 00:12:16,949
I'm very proud of all
your accomplishments.
282
00:12:16,969 --> 00:12:18,785
Oh, I love it.
283
00:12:18,804 --> 00:12:21,196
- Thank you.
- You deserve it.
284
00:12:21,198 --> 00:12:22,380
Come have a seat.
285
00:12:22,499 --> 00:12:25,291
So, tell me about Levi Scott.
286
00:12:25,352 --> 00:12:27,536
Are you still attending that
anger management class with him?
287
00:12:27,538 --> 00:12:29,220
Levi's a tough nut to crack.
288
00:12:29,339 --> 00:12:31,873
He keeps to himself, mostly.
289
00:12:31,875 --> 00:12:33,558
You just got to get him to loosen up.
290
00:12:33,676 --> 00:12:34,726
Find out what he likes.
291
00:12:34,844 --> 00:12:38,638
I bet it's you. Who knows... maybe,
292
00:12:38,699 --> 00:12:40,549
if he can give you some
evidence that might help
293
00:12:40,551 --> 00:12:43,309
reopen Rosemary's murder case...
294
00:12:43,370 --> 00:12:45,829
you could find yourself
sitting second chair
295
00:12:45,989 --> 00:12:47,956
in the biggest trial of the year.
296
00:12:49,826 --> 00:12:50,834
Understood.
297
00:12:55,532 --> 00:12:58,175
Vanessa had a few stalkers.
298
00:12:58,293 --> 00:13:00,569
The straight boys loved her.
299
00:13:00,571 --> 00:13:03,663
And when they couldn't keep
her it could get violent.
300
00:13:03,724 --> 00:13:05,090
You have any idea who attacked her
301
00:13:05,184 --> 00:13:06,984
- when she was charged for assault?
- Honey...
302
00:13:07,019 --> 00:13:09,411
everybody harassed us.
303
00:13:09,413 --> 00:13:11,930
Cops, neighbors, drunkards, robbers,
304
00:13:12,066 --> 00:13:13,339
even family.
305
00:13:13,417 --> 00:13:14,841
Everybody hated us.
306
00:13:14,860 --> 00:13:17,005
We're just trying to find
an alternative suspect.
307
00:13:17,029 --> 00:13:18,920
It's the key to getting you out.
308
00:13:18,922 --> 00:13:20,755
Well, what's the key
to getting my hormones?
309
00:13:20,757 --> 00:13:22,757
Cindy, you deserve your
hormones and so much more.
310
00:13:22,759 --> 00:13:24,392
Let us help you get out of prison.
311
00:13:24,411 --> 00:13:27,112
- Then you're free to get the hormones you need.
- But like I said,
312
00:13:27,230 --> 00:13:28,855
I've got no one out there.
313
00:13:28,932 --> 00:13:30,448
The gays hate us.
314
00:13:30,567 --> 00:13:32,191
The lesbians don't want
anything to do with us,
315
00:13:32,211 --> 00:13:34,051
and the straights don't
even think we're human.
316
00:13:35,738 --> 00:13:38,957
All of my friends are gone.
317
00:13:39,075 --> 00:13:42,460
There's not one single
person in the world for me.
318
00:13:42,579 --> 00:13:44,295
I'm better off in here.
319
00:13:44,390 --> 00:13:46,631
But this isn't freedom.
320
00:13:46,725 --> 00:13:48,040
Your life's not your own,
321
00:13:48,060 --> 00:13:50,894
and even though the idea
of being free is scary,
322
00:13:51,054 --> 00:13:53,397
it is your right
because you're innocent.
323
00:13:53,473 --> 00:13:55,732
I won't say it's gonna be easy.
324
00:13:55,892 --> 00:13:57,459
But a year from now,
325
00:13:57,461 --> 00:13:59,528
maybe two, maybe three...
326
00:14:01,398 --> 00:14:03,468
... you're gonna start to
wake up with tears in your eyes
327
00:14:03,492 --> 00:14:05,992
that your life is your own.
328
00:14:07,996 --> 00:14:09,971
Why are you being so nice to me?
329
00:14:09,973 --> 00:14:12,749
Because I suffered for
ten years in prison.
330
00:14:14,645 --> 00:14:16,978
Just like that man over
there alleviated my pain,
331
00:14:16,980 --> 00:14:19,297
I vowed that I would
do the same for others.
332
00:14:21,427 --> 00:14:23,818
Cindy, let us help you.
333
00:14:23,820 --> 00:14:25,262
Let us stand next to you and fight.
334
00:14:41,447 --> 00:14:44,573
All right... fine.
335
00:14:46,643 --> 00:14:47,742
Let's do it.
336
00:14:56,462 --> 00:14:58,128
- Oh, Lord.
- Who is it?
337
00:14:58,288 --> 00:15:00,630
- Judge Speer.
- Oh, Lord.
338
00:15:00,707 --> 00:15:03,525
- Ms. Scott.
- It's good to see you again, Your Honor.
339
00:15:03,527 --> 00:15:05,193
I wish I could say the same for you.
340
00:15:05,195 --> 00:15:06,636
Thank you, Your Honor.
341
00:15:06,796 --> 00:15:09,455
The justice system is
based on the principle
342
00:15:09,475 --> 00:15:11,457
that all people are treated
equally under the law.
343
00:15:11,477 --> 00:15:12,884
That principle was violated
344
00:15:12,961 --> 00:15:14,321
at Cindy Whitman's original trial.
345
00:15:14,354 --> 00:15:15,795
Whoa, whoa, whoa, we
have on the docket here
346
00:15:15,814 --> 00:15:18,464
a Steven Whitman, not Cindy.
347
00:15:18,525 --> 00:15:19,627
Your Honor, that's my point.
348
00:15:19,651 --> 00:15:21,392
- The Constitution...
- Ms. Scott,
349
00:15:21,487 --> 00:15:22,544
you're my first case of the day.
350
00:15:22,546 --> 00:15:23,895
Let the coffee kick in before you
351
00:15:23,989 --> 00:15:25,380
go full Atticus Finch on me.
352
00:15:25,382 --> 00:15:26,548
What's your issue?
353
00:15:26,550 --> 00:15:28,975
Your Honor...
354
00:15:29,052 --> 00:15:31,477
we move for a new trial
in the interest of justice
355
00:15:31,497 --> 00:15:35,537
on the basis of overwhelming new
evidence of the Chicago PD's bias
356
00:15:35,538 --> 00:15:37,408
against the transgendered
community in the '80s.
357
00:15:37,409 --> 00:15:40,337
Lovely history lesson, but
you seem to have left out
358
00:15:40,455 --> 00:15:43,414
the Chicago PD's
investigation into your client.
359
00:15:43,533 --> 00:15:45,825
In addition to exculpatory blood
evidence already before you,
360
00:15:45,844 --> 00:15:47,660
the hormone levels in
the blood at the scene
361
00:15:47,679 --> 00:15:49,532
did not reflect someone
who was transitioning...
362
00:15:49,556 --> 00:15:50,849
Do these blood samples still exist?
363
00:15:50,873 --> 00:15:52,423
They do not, Your Honor.
364
00:15:52,500 --> 00:15:54,092
Motion for a new trial denied.
365
00:15:54,210 --> 00:15:56,261
Then we request, at the very least,
366
00:15:56,355 --> 00:15:57,929
post-conviction discovery,
367
00:15:58,047 --> 00:16:00,524
in the form of access
to the police files
368
00:16:00,684 --> 00:16:03,693
- to explore the possibility.
- Fine. Motion granted.
369
00:16:03,812 --> 00:16:06,178
But then again...
370
00:16:06,198 --> 00:16:07,300
that's what you wanted all along,
371
00:16:07,301 --> 00:16:09,616
- isn't it, Ms. Scott?
- Maybe.
372
00:16:10,953 --> 00:16:12,285
Next case.
373
00:16:16,542 --> 00:16:19,358
How nice of them to
bury us in paperwork.
374
00:16:19,378 --> 00:16:20,693
Yeah, and literally none of it
375
00:16:20,712 --> 00:16:22,604
has anything to do with our case.
376
00:16:22,606 --> 00:16:24,130
The arrest date was July 14, right?
377
00:16:24,149 --> 00:16:26,085
- Yeah.
- I have an arrest report here
378
00:16:26,109 --> 00:16:29,368
for Debbie Urmand,
same date, same charge.
379
00:16:29,429 --> 00:16:31,780
- It's a codefendant?
- Same arresting officers.
380
00:16:31,782 --> 00:16:33,723
If Debbie was there, she
might be able to tell us
381
00:16:33,842 --> 00:16:35,800
who the guy was. If she's still alive.
382
00:16:35,894 --> 00:16:38,136
Ah, ah, ah... I found a Debbie Urmand.
383
00:16:38,212 --> 00:16:40,972
She manages a drag club
called Medusa's Den.
384
00:16:41,066 --> 00:16:42,640
I think there's a slightly good chance
385
00:16:42,759 --> 00:16:44,484
that that is the same person.
386
00:16:45,595 --> 00:16:46,811
This is gonna be fun.
387
00:16:46,929 --> 00:16:48,479
Can't wait.
388
00:16:48,598 --> 00:16:50,982
? I don't want to lose you ?
389
00:16:51,100 --> 00:16:52,984
? This good thing ?
390
00:16:53,102 --> 00:16:55,153
? That I've got ?
391
00:16:55,271 --> 00:16:57,655
? 'Cause if I do ?
392
00:16:57,774 --> 00:16:59,565
? I would surely ?
393
00:16:59,626 --> 00:17:03,144
? Surely lose a lot ?
394
00:17:03,146 --> 00:17:07,073
? 'Cause your love is better ?
395
00:17:07,092 --> 00:17:09,408
? Than any love I know ?
396
00:17:09,428 --> 00:17:11,577
? It's like thunder ?
397
00:17:11,597 --> 00:17:13,579
? Lightning ?
398
00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:17,083
? The way you love me is frightening ?
399
00:17:17,102 --> 00:17:18,827
? You better knock, knock ?
400
00:17:20,022 --> 00:17:24,332
? On wood, baby ?
401
00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:28,761
? Whoo-ooh-ooh-hoo-hoo ?
402
00:17:28,780 --> 00:17:33,024
? Baby, whoo-ooh-ooh-hoo-hoo ?
403
00:17:33,118 --> 00:17:36,119
? Think I better knock,
knock, knock on wood ?
404
00:17:36,237 --> 00:17:39,013
? Think I better knock,
knock, knock on wood ?
405
00:17:39,041 --> 00:17:42,533
- That's her.
- ? Knock, knock, knock on wood ?
406
00:17:42,628 --> 00:17:44,352
All right, let's go.
407
00:17:44,354 --> 00:17:46,037
? Think I better knock,
knock, knock... ?
408
00:17:46,131 --> 00:17:49,190
It was another world back then.
409
00:17:49,192 --> 00:17:50,859
You didn't show your true colors
410
00:17:50,861 --> 00:17:52,785
unless you were willing
to pay the price.
411
00:17:52,804 --> 00:17:55,121
On the night of July
14, you were arrested
412
00:17:55,140 --> 00:17:56,881
with another woman, Vanessa Evans.
413
00:17:56,999 --> 00:18:00,218
- The police say you both attacked the victim.
- Yeah, right...
414
00:18:00,294 --> 00:18:03,980
we attacked him. Sure.
415
00:18:04,057 --> 00:18:05,874
I was working
416
00:18:05,876 --> 00:18:07,466
when Vanessa saw me on my corner
417
00:18:07,527 --> 00:18:09,135
and she came to say hi.
418
00:18:09,196 --> 00:18:11,303
It wasn't but five minutes when some guy
419
00:18:11,365 --> 00:18:13,657
came out of nowhere, jumped us.
420
00:18:13,775 --> 00:18:16,718
So it was a stranger who attacked you?
421
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:18,477
Not someone Vanessa knew?
422
00:18:18,497 --> 00:18:20,622
That's right. Sh... she didn't know him.
423
00:18:21,725 --> 00:18:24,483
Do you remember anything about him?
424
00:18:24,561 --> 00:18:27,820
No. It was a long time ago.
425
00:18:27,839 --> 00:18:29,822
And one of many.
426
00:18:29,841 --> 00:18:33,568
You said you were
working on your corner.
427
00:18:33,570 --> 00:18:34,660
Were you working working?
428
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:38,256
Only way to pay the bills, sweetheart.
429
00:18:38,350 --> 00:18:42,760
I couldn't pass... so
I couldn't get a job.
430
00:18:42,854 --> 00:18:45,838
Some of the girls were lucky
enough to find sugar daddies.
431
00:18:45,857 --> 00:18:47,273
Guys on the down-low...
432
00:18:48,527 --> 00:18:50,251
... but not me.
433
00:18:50,253 --> 00:18:51,753
Vanessa had someone, right?
434
00:18:51,755 --> 00:18:54,847
Many. The straight boys loved her.
435
00:18:54,866 --> 00:18:57,442
- Anyone around the time she was killed?
- Oh, yeah.
436
00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:59,110
Sam Marshall.
437
00:18:59,228 --> 00:19:01,946
He was obsessed with her.
438
00:19:02,023 --> 00:19:05,616
Lost it a little when she called it off.
439
00:19:05,693 --> 00:19:08,086
Big finance guys don't
like to be told no.
440
00:19:10,290 --> 00:19:14,108
? Gotta knock, knock,
knock on wood, yeah ?
441
00:19:14,110 --> 00:19:17,053
? You gotta knock, knock,
knock on lightning ?
442
00:19:17,172 --> 00:19:18,555
And I like that part.
443
00:19:18,673 --> 00:19:20,206
- ? It's like thunder ?
- And... and I had fun.
444
00:19:20,225 --> 00:19:22,133
- Hey!
- Hey.
445
00:19:22,210 --> 00:19:24,452
Die of AIDS, faggots.
446
00:19:27,566 --> 00:19:29,215
Call the cops!
447
00:19:29,234 --> 00:19:30,959
- Are you okay?
- Someone call the police!
448
00:19:33,822 --> 00:19:36,388
You're not gonna need
stitches. You got lucky.
449
00:19:36,408 --> 00:19:38,241
An inch lower and you
could've lost your eye.
450
00:19:40,528 --> 00:19:42,095
So you didn't get the license?
451
00:19:42,097 --> 00:19:44,806
No. It... it... Look,
it all happened so fast.
452
00:19:44,833 --> 00:19:46,474
Can you guys not check
the neighborhood cameras,
453
00:19:46,476 --> 00:19:47,476
get their license plate?
454
00:19:47,477 --> 00:19:49,494
Yeah, we'll get right on that.
455
00:19:49,588 --> 00:19:51,980
- You're not gonna do anything, are you?
- Sir, please stay calm.
456
00:19:51,982 --> 00:19:54,482
- Listen, I'm not even gay and I'm pissed off.
- Of course you're not, sir.
457
00:19:54,484 --> 00:19:57,819
- You're wasting your time getting angry.
- Excuse me, sir.
458
00:19:57,821 --> 00:20:00,098
- We're taking a police report.
- Can you at least show her some respect
459
00:20:00,122 --> 00:20:01,247
and refer to her as ma'am?
460
00:20:01,266 --> 00:20:03,433
And you'll refer to
me as Officer Thompson.
461
00:20:03,510 --> 00:20:05,270
All right, all right. We
get it. You don't care.
462
00:20:05,294 --> 00:20:07,228
Let's just get out of here.
463
00:20:14,971 --> 00:20:18,264
So I have a Sam Marshall of
a Marshall Financial Group
464
00:20:18,325 --> 00:20:20,525
- on Michigan Avenue.
- Is that the guy?
465
00:20:20,643 --> 00:20:23,602
- That looks like a DL sugar daddy.
- And you would know?
466
00:20:23,663 --> 00:20:26,531
- I could be DL. I could never be a sugar daddy.
- I believe that.
467
00:20:26,625 --> 00:20:27,760
- That I couldn't be a sugar daddy?
- Yeah.
468
00:20:27,784 --> 00:20:28,936
Because you don't have any money.
469
00:20:30,854 --> 00:20:32,796
Mr. Marshall's office.
470
00:20:32,956 --> 00:20:34,355
Hi, may I please speak to Sam Marshall?
471
00:20:34,357 --> 00:20:35,632
It's Madeline Scott calling
472
00:20:35,792 --> 00:20:36,949
from the Injustice Defense Group.
473
00:20:36,968 --> 00:20:39,636
- It's a legal matter.
- Hold, please.
474
00:20:39,796 --> 00:20:42,530
Uh, this is Sam Marshall.
475
00:20:42,532 --> 00:20:44,974
Hi, Mr. Marshall. Uh,
this is Madeline Scott.
476
00:20:45,093 --> 00:20:48,386
We have a few questions
for you about Vanessa Evans.
477
00:20:48,504 --> 00:20:50,313
I don't know who that is.
478
00:20:51,841 --> 00:20:53,465
We think you do.
479
00:20:53,527 --> 00:20:55,393
Don't contact me ever again.
480
00:20:56,846 --> 00:20:59,397
I think someone just put "suspect"
481
00:20:59,491 --> 00:21:01,491
above their head in flashing lights.
482
00:21:15,197 --> 00:21:16,297
Isabel?
483
00:21:19,845 --> 00:21:21,177
Hey.
484
00:21:23,256 --> 00:21:26,224
- You okay?
- Yeah, I'm fine.
485
00:21:27,410 --> 00:21:30,002
Okay, maybe I'm not fine.
486
00:21:30,063 --> 00:21:33,264
But that's why we're here, right?
487
00:21:33,382 --> 00:21:36,008
- Right. Right, yeah.
- It's just...
488
00:21:36,027 --> 00:21:38,344
coming here, sometimes...
489
00:21:38,363 --> 00:21:40,321
makes me more sad.
490
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:43,825
Yeah.
491
00:21:45,361 --> 00:21:47,871
Why don't we do something not sad?
492
00:21:48,031 --> 00:21:50,164
What do you mean?
493
00:21:51,209 --> 00:21:53,359
I don't know.
494
00:21:53,378 --> 00:21:55,211
Let's get out of here.
495
00:21:55,330 --> 00:21:56,796
Come on.
496
00:22:06,558 --> 00:22:07,615
Sam Marshall?
497
00:22:07,617 --> 00:22:08,725
Hi, I'm Madeline Scott.
498
00:22:08,843 --> 00:22:09,951
We spoke on the phone.
499
00:22:09,953 --> 00:22:12,211
This is my partner, Easy Boudreau.
500
00:22:12,230 --> 00:22:14,546
I asked you not to reach out to me.
501
00:22:14,566 --> 00:22:17,141
Crazy enough, that made us
want to talk to you even more.
502
00:22:17,218 --> 00:22:19,385
- I don't have to talk to you.
- Of course not.
503
00:22:19,404 --> 00:22:20,978
But if you don't,
504
00:22:21,097 --> 00:22:22,797
we'll ask your friends and coworkers
505
00:22:22,799 --> 00:22:24,260
if they knew about your
relationship with Vanessa.
506
00:22:24,284 --> 00:22:26,058
Probably more beneficial
507
00:22:26,077 --> 00:22:27,702
to talk to us directly, don't you think?
508
00:22:46,756 --> 00:22:48,673
It was very long ago.
509
00:22:48,791 --> 00:22:51,842
- Are you still married?
- Wife passed away two years ago.
510
00:22:51,961 --> 00:22:53,603
Pancreatic cancer.
511
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,087
- Sorry to hear.
- Thank you.
512
00:22:55,106 --> 00:22:57,256
I have children, I have grandchildren.
513
00:22:57,333 --> 00:23:01,519
I cannot have anyone
find out about Vanessa.
514
00:23:01,595 --> 00:23:03,595
We have no interest in
exposing your personal life.
515
00:23:03,657 --> 00:23:05,501
We're just trying to find
out what happened to her.
516
00:23:05,525 --> 00:23:07,599
I have no idea what happened to her.
517
00:23:07,661 --> 00:23:10,436
I was in New York that night for work.
518
00:23:10,497 --> 00:23:13,197
I left that morning,
which I can probably prove.
519
00:23:13,333 --> 00:23:14,791
Came back the next day.
520
00:23:14,909 --> 00:23:16,534
I didn't even hear about her murder
521
00:23:16,628 --> 00:23:18,610
until the next week.
522
00:23:18,630 --> 00:23:20,779
We hadn't seen each other in months.
523
00:23:20,799 --> 00:23:22,540
We were told that you had.
524
00:23:22,658 --> 00:23:24,136
That she'd recently broken up with you
525
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:25,560
and you were really upset about it.
526
00:23:25,661 --> 00:23:27,378
Please.
527
00:23:27,496 --> 00:23:29,547
She didn't break up with me. I ended it.
528
00:23:29,665 --> 00:23:32,458
Okay? It was a very
strange time in my life
529
00:23:32,519 --> 00:23:35,294
and it was 37 years ago.
530
00:23:35,355 --> 00:23:37,555
So I hope that this was helpful
531
00:23:37,673 --> 00:23:39,724
and I sincerely hope that I never see
532
00:23:39,818 --> 00:23:42,026
either of you ever again.
533
00:23:49,494 --> 00:23:51,494
I think he's lying.
534
00:23:53,823 --> 00:23:55,665
He wasn't lying.
535
00:23:55,825 --> 00:23:58,650
He e-mailed us his credit card
statements from 37 years ago.
536
00:23:58,728 --> 00:24:00,652
He says he kept them all for 45 years.
537
00:24:00,672 --> 00:24:03,209
- Only a finance guy would do that.
- Yeah, and there were charges
538
00:24:03,233 --> 00:24:05,399
from New York City on
the night of the murder.
539
00:24:05,427 --> 00:24:06,627
Which gives him a tight alibi.
540
00:24:06,678 --> 00:24:07,993
But that doesn't mean he didn't
541
00:24:08,054 --> 00:24:09,995
kill her that day before he left.
542
00:24:10,015 --> 00:24:12,142
Plus, he could have falsified
his credit card statements.
543
00:24:12,166 --> 00:24:14,495
Also, someone else could have
been using the card that night.
544
00:24:14,519 --> 00:24:17,836
Exactly. But what's really,
really interesting is...
545
00:24:17,897 --> 00:24:21,173
these hospital charges
from Mount Carmel ER.
546
00:24:21,192 --> 00:24:23,359
Two days after the
murder. Check this out.
547
00:24:23,436 --> 00:24:24,843
He could have cut
himself at the crime scene
548
00:24:24,863 --> 00:24:27,012
and then, a couple days
later, the wound hasn't healed
549
00:24:27,073 --> 00:24:28,773
so he goes to the ER for stitches.
550
00:24:28,891 --> 00:24:31,868
And if he killed Vanessa, then his blood
551
00:24:31,944 --> 00:24:34,024
would've been the other one
found at the crime scene.
552
00:24:34,063 --> 00:24:36,188
We should check to see if
he's the rare AB negative.
553
00:24:36,207 --> 00:24:38,023
Let's do it. We'll get a court order,
554
00:24:38,084 --> 00:24:40,284
- subpoena his records.
- All right, I definitely think
555
00:24:40,361 --> 00:24:42,361
that our stockbroker
douchebag is the best bet.
556
00:24:42,380 --> 00:24:44,696
But I did find some really
interesting information
557
00:24:44,716 --> 00:24:48,051
about our bartender, Thomas Stone.
558
00:24:48,127 --> 00:24:50,047
Okay, so, he talked about
how the trans community
559
00:24:50,096 --> 00:24:51,996
was always welcome at the Tulip, right?
560
00:24:52,073 --> 00:24:54,039
To quote Dick Cheney, "Big time."
561
00:24:54,059 --> 00:24:56,801
A safe haven where everyone
could be themselves.
562
00:24:56,895 --> 00:24:58,544
Hmm. It was a haven, all right.
563
00:24:58,563 --> 00:25:00,955
A haven of anti-trans sentiment.
564
00:25:00,957 --> 00:25:02,701
Found a dozen quotes from
Thomas back in the day,
565
00:25:02,725 --> 00:25:05,551
all of them distancing the gay community
566
00:25:05,628 --> 00:25:06,794
from the trans community.
567
00:25:06,821 --> 00:25:09,555
Some of them, he even
attacks Vanessa head-on.
568
00:25:09,574 --> 00:25:11,056
In this one he says, uh,
569
00:25:11,076 --> 00:25:12,600
"She was a she-male
that was the worst thing
570
00:25:12,602 --> 00:25:14,393
to happen to gay rights."
571
00:25:14,412 --> 00:25:15,894
Damn, that's harsh.
572
00:25:15,914 --> 00:25:17,805
Well, I think we need to talk to Thomas.
573
00:25:21,086 --> 00:25:22,493
I got us shots.
574
00:25:22,587 --> 00:25:24,478
Uh...
575
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,647
- that's probably not a good idea.
- Oh, come on.
576
00:25:26,649 --> 00:25:29,333
Just one shot. Remember,
today's Don't Be Sad Day.
577
00:25:29,427 --> 00:25:30,909
Mm-hmm.
578
00:25:30,929 --> 00:25:32,303
Okay, one shot.
579
00:25:36,292 --> 00:25:37,491
Let's do another one.
580
00:25:37,493 --> 00:25:39,060
- Mm, no.
- One more shot.
581
00:25:42,798 --> 00:25:44,682
Listening to your
podcast, I had to wonder,
582
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:46,350
okay, so you're making these things,
583
00:25:46,468 --> 00:25:47,946
you're churning them out by yourself?
584
00:25:47,970 --> 00:25:50,262
So, are you just, like,
working all the time?
585
00:25:50,323 --> 00:25:51,763
Well, I throw myself into my work
586
00:25:51,825 --> 00:25:53,432
because I barely have a personal life.
587
00:25:53,509 --> 00:25:55,860
Seriously? Like, I would think, like,
588
00:25:55,954 --> 00:25:57,361
you're smart and you're idealistic
589
00:25:57,479 --> 00:25:59,266
and you're attractive,
like, I would just think
590
00:25:59,290 --> 00:26:01,682
men must throw themselves at you.
591
00:26:01,684 --> 00:26:02,959
Yeah, well...
592
00:26:03,077 --> 00:26:05,519
yeah, I guess I do all right.
593
00:26:05,521 --> 00:26:07,521
And what about you?
594
00:26:07,523 --> 00:26:09,023
Are you seeing someone?
595
00:26:09,050 --> 00:26:10,299
Oh, my God. Yes.
596
00:26:10,418 --> 00:26:12,360
You would love her. She is, like,
597
00:26:12,362 --> 00:26:14,862
very interesting all the time.
598
00:26:14,889 --> 00:26:17,056
She's incredible, she's incredible.
599
00:26:18,551 --> 00:26:20,292
That's incredible.
600
00:26:20,311 --> 00:26:22,553
That's, uh... that's like that TV show.
601
00:26:22,630 --> 00:26:23,874
That's Incredible!, it's like that.
602
00:26:23,898 --> 00:26:26,131
It's... that's... incredible.
603
00:26:26,151 --> 00:26:27,151
Uh, yeah, totally.
604
00:26:29,696 --> 00:26:32,280
All right, so... Ira...
605
00:26:33,324 --> 00:26:35,049
... why did you want to have dinner?
606
00:26:35,051 --> 00:26:36,233
Okay, it's very exciting.
607
00:26:36,327 --> 00:26:38,327
My team, we have this
idea for a new podcast.
608
00:26:38,404 --> 00:26:40,554
It's criminal justice,
it's very ambitious.
609
00:26:40,556 --> 00:26:42,556
And we think you would
be the perfect host.
610
00:26:42,558 --> 00:26:45,576
I'm here to offer you a job.
It would be your own show.
611
00:26:45,694 --> 00:26:48,245
Wh... Uh...
612
00:26:48,364 --> 00:26:50,898
I don't know what to
say. That's... that's...
613
00:26:50,900 --> 00:26:52,583
This would be a dream come true for me.
614
00:26:52,701 --> 00:26:55,390
And we would get more listeners
for Until Proven Innocent.
615
00:26:55,391 --> 00:26:58,330
Oh, uh, this would be a full-time
thing. I'm so sorry, you would...
616
00:26:58,391 --> 00:27:00,424
you would have to quit
Until Proven Innocent.
617
00:27:00,542 --> 00:27:02,185
You'd have to move to New York City.
618
00:27:02,303 --> 00:27:04,145
This could be a really big show.
619
00:27:05,306 --> 00:27:07,339
Yeah, but I don't think I can just...
620
00:27:07,417 --> 00:27:08,417
Just think about it, okay?
621
00:27:08,418 --> 00:27:10,509
This is a really big opportunity.
622
00:27:10,528 --> 00:27:11,903
Think about it.
623
00:27:13,648 --> 00:27:15,125
- I'll think about it.
- Think about it.
624
00:27:15,149 --> 00:27:16,532
To that.
625
00:27:23,875 --> 00:27:25,190
Hi, Thomas.
626
00:27:25,210 --> 00:27:27,025
- Hello.
- Back so soon?
627
00:27:27,086 --> 00:27:29,695
We need to talk about the
truth between you and Vanessa.
628
00:27:29,714 --> 00:27:31,834
You said this was a place
where everyone was accepted.
629
00:27:31,865 --> 00:27:33,774
You meant everyone but
the trans community, right?
630
00:27:33,776 --> 00:27:36,627
Because you're quoted all
over articles from the '80s
631
00:27:36,721 --> 00:27:39,447
attacking them and Vanessa.
632
00:27:39,449 --> 00:27:42,466
Look, you got to understand
what was going on back then.
633
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,286
Cops were raiding gay
bars, beating us up.
634
00:27:45,288 --> 00:27:47,045
Stonewall didn't change
how they treated us.
635
00:27:47,065 --> 00:27:51,135
So, we started a gay and
lesbian alliance to protect us.
636
00:27:51,136 --> 00:27:53,319
And who was supposed to
protect the trans community?
637
00:27:54,596 --> 00:27:56,572
At the time, a lot of
gay people felt that
638
00:27:56,649 --> 00:28:00,710
the trans community was holding
us back from equal rights.
639
00:28:00,787 --> 00:28:02,394
Straight people saw them as freaks
640
00:28:02,455 --> 00:28:04,822
and... so did some of us.
641
00:28:04,898 --> 00:28:06,498
Believe me, I wish I could take it back.
642
00:28:06,534 --> 00:28:08,476
Did you and Vanessa have
a fight before she died?
643
00:28:08,478 --> 00:28:10,957
Me and Ness argued every
time we saw each other, but...
644
00:28:10,958 --> 00:28:12,463
What were you arguing about?
645
00:28:13,541 --> 00:28:15,424
We got into it at the bar.
646
00:28:15,543 --> 00:28:17,927
She was yelling and throwing a fit.
647
00:28:18,045 --> 00:28:20,429
She could be a real drama
queen when she wanted to be.
648
00:28:20,548 --> 00:28:24,767
She was furious because we told
her not to speak at a pride rally.
649
00:28:24,885 --> 00:28:27,828
I have been beaten,
I've had my nose broken,
650
00:28:27,855 --> 00:28:29,663
I've been thrown in jail.
651
00:28:29,665 --> 00:28:31,757
I've lost my job for gay liberation.
652
00:28:31,776 --> 00:28:34,760
I've got as much right to speak
at that rally as anyone else does.
653
00:28:34,821 --> 00:28:36,006
I'm not going anywhere, Thomas,
654
00:28:36,030 --> 00:28:37,521
and if you think just for one second
655
00:28:37,598 --> 00:28:39,264
that we're gonna roll over and die,
656
00:28:39,325 --> 00:28:40,825
think again.
657
00:28:43,346 --> 00:28:46,104
That was the last time I ever saw her.
658
00:28:46,165 --> 00:28:48,182
What did you do after she left?
659
00:28:48,184 --> 00:28:49,792
I... I was here all night.
660
00:28:49,869 --> 00:28:52,369
And I got a dozen people
who can testify to that.
661
00:28:52,463 --> 00:28:54,613
No one could ever forget
the night Ness died,
662
00:28:54,632 --> 00:28:56,615
and we never will.
663
00:28:56,634 --> 00:28:59,527
Look, I hated Vanessa...
664
00:28:59,529 --> 00:29:01,728
back in the day.
665
00:29:01,730 --> 00:29:03,622
But I would never kill her.
666
00:29:03,683 --> 00:29:07,959
- And why is that?
- Because she was my sister-in-arms.
667
00:29:08,021 --> 00:29:10,813
Even when I hated her, I loved her.
668
00:29:10,931 --> 00:29:12,356
And I always will.
669
00:29:18,932 --> 00:29:20,917
Of course, we call it
a Revolutionary War,
670
00:29:20,941 --> 00:29:23,308
but really, it's a civil
war, if you think...
671
00:29:23,386 --> 00:29:24,976
Okay, so I've got bad news
672
00:29:24,996 --> 00:29:28,055
- and I've got bad news. What do you want first?
- The bad news.
673
00:29:28,057 --> 00:29:29,981
Judge hates my guts, denied
our motion for Sam Marshall's
674
00:29:30,001 --> 00:29:33,060
hospital records. She said
it was a fishing expedition.
675
00:29:33,062 --> 00:29:35,896
- Okay, how about the bad news?
- We don't have any other suspects.
676
00:29:35,898 --> 00:29:37,989
I don't buy Thomas did
it. His motive's weak,
677
00:29:38,009 --> 00:29:40,826
and he's got witnesses
to corroborate his alibi.
678
00:29:40,845 --> 00:29:43,179
That brings us back to Sam
Marshall, who also has an alibi.
679
00:29:43,255 --> 00:29:44,572
And he's definitely got motive.
680
00:29:44,599 --> 00:29:46,256
I agree. He's our best bet.
681
00:29:46,351 --> 00:29:48,166
And if his blood type is AB negative,
682
00:29:48,186 --> 00:29:50,164
- that might be enough to get Cindy out.
- Okay.
683
00:29:50,188 --> 00:29:51,670
So let's subpoena Sam Marshall,
684
00:29:51,747 --> 00:29:53,107
hammer it out of him on the stand.
685
00:29:53,191 --> 00:29:54,668
Yeah, but what if he testifies to being
686
00:29:54,692 --> 00:29:57,101
a different blood type? Then we're dead.
687
00:29:57,195 --> 00:29:59,362
Or maybe there's another way
we can get his blood type.
688
00:30:00,256 --> 00:30:01,530
Pray tell.
689
00:30:01,649 --> 00:30:04,425
It's not exactly legal, so
maybe I shouldn't say anything.
690
00:30:04,427 --> 00:30:06,994
- I didn't hear that.
- I never had this conversation.
691
00:30:09,398 --> 00:30:10,948
- Boston Tea Party.
- Hey.
692
00:30:11,066 --> 00:30:12,691
No, think about the Boston Tea Party.
693
00:30:12,752 --> 00:30:14,432
What are we dumping?
Are we dumping coffee?
694
00:30:16,939 --> 00:30:19,623
I know my own stuff is
hard enough to deal with,
695
00:30:19,741 --> 00:30:22,126
but I have no idea
how you do it publicly.
696
00:30:22,220 --> 00:30:24,111
You're so resilient.
697
00:30:24,113 --> 00:30:26,130
And that article...
698
00:30:26,224 --> 00:30:28,540
Does Madeline really think
that you killed Rosemary?
699
00:30:28,559 --> 00:30:30,226
I don't know.
700
00:30:32,622 --> 00:30:35,564
I find it a bit ironic that...
701
00:30:35,724 --> 00:30:38,234
that she thinks that I did it, but...
702
00:30:38,394 --> 00:30:39,693
Why?
703
00:30:41,964 --> 00:30:45,223
? You've been forewarned... ?
704
00:30:45,243 --> 00:30:46,892
You can tell me.
705
00:30:46,953 --> 00:30:48,786
I won't say anything.
706
00:30:50,248 --> 00:30:51,997
Group code of silence.
707
00:30:55,586 --> 00:31:00,089
The night that... that
Rosemary was killed,
708
00:31:00,207 --> 00:31:03,651
before we even knew that she was dead,
709
00:31:03,653 --> 00:31:06,762
everybody's looking for her...
710
00:31:06,881 --> 00:31:09,098
except for Madeline.
711
00:31:09,175 --> 00:31:12,250
- What?
- She was... she was just acting so strange.
712
00:31:12,270 --> 00:31:15,938
You know, like she was...
she was high or something.
713
00:31:17,333 --> 00:31:20,901
Just looking straight ahead in a haze.
714
00:31:26,676 --> 00:31:28,358
So she didn't help you look?
715
00:31:28,477 --> 00:31:30,027
No, that's the weird thing.
716
00:31:30,145 --> 00:31:31,829
Something was definitely wrong.
717
00:31:33,458 --> 00:31:36,917
Do you think that Madeline might
have done something to Rosemary?
718
00:31:39,297 --> 00:31:40,629
No.
719
00:31:40,789 --> 00:31:43,299
I just never understood
720
00:31:43,459 --> 00:31:46,302
why she's acting so strange, you know?
721
00:31:46,378 --> 00:31:50,097
Before anybody even knew
that... that Rosemary was killed.
722
00:31:59,058 --> 00:32:02,485
This isn't exactly the "let's
just be friends" pact we just made.
723
00:32:02,561 --> 00:32:05,863
I know. I can't help it.
724
00:32:08,493 --> 00:32:10,809
Me neither.
725
00:32:15,148 --> 00:32:18,909
Okay, we have to stop or they're
gonna throw me out of here.
726
00:32:18,986 --> 00:32:20,986
No, they won't. I took care of it.
727
00:32:21,005 --> 00:32:25,749
You've always had this place wired.
728
00:32:25,867 --> 00:32:28,827
But maybe not for long.
729
00:32:28,888 --> 00:32:30,888
Why? What do you mean?
730
00:32:32,207 --> 00:32:35,184
My parole board hearing got set.
731
00:32:36,521 --> 00:32:38,189
My lawyer actually thinks
I'm gonna have a shot
732
00:32:38,213 --> 00:32:40,097
of getting out of here.
733
00:32:42,017 --> 00:32:43,675
Wren, that's amazing.
734
00:32:43,694 --> 00:32:45,361
Is it?
735
00:32:45,521 --> 00:32:47,104
Of course it is.
736
00:32:47,222 --> 00:32:49,365
Madeline...
737
00:32:49,525 --> 00:32:51,942
let's be real.
738
00:32:52,019 --> 00:32:54,111
Do you really see us together out there?
739
00:32:54,229 --> 00:32:57,206
Like, hanging with your
pals, meeting your folks?
740
00:32:58,251 --> 00:33:00,209
Yeah, I do.
741
00:33:00,327 --> 00:33:02,711
Okay then.
742
00:33:04,197 --> 00:33:06,715
How many people have you told about me?
743
00:33:08,335 --> 00:33:10,970
That's what I thought.
744
00:33:12,890 --> 00:33:15,132
This thing we have between us...
745
00:33:15,226 --> 00:33:16,967
it exists only in here.
746
00:33:17,061 --> 00:33:18,877
I know on the outside
747
00:33:18,896 --> 00:33:21,638
you hide this side of
you. I'm not mad about it.
748
00:33:21,732 --> 00:33:24,275
I just... I don't want
to be disappointed.
749
00:33:26,904 --> 00:33:30,981
I don't know what's gonna happen
between us when you get out.
750
00:33:31,099 --> 00:33:32,741
But can we worry about that later?
751
00:33:32,818 --> 00:33:35,202
All that matters is
that you get out of here.
752
00:33:37,672 --> 00:33:41,041
- Get out of here.
- Okay.
753
00:33:45,497 --> 00:33:48,073
All of the students
organized a search party.
754
00:33:48,092 --> 00:33:51,594
Everyone was looking.
Everyone except for her.
755
00:33:53,155 --> 00:33:55,264
I've been looking at this backwards.
756
00:33:55,424 --> 00:33:56,782
I always thought he killed her
757
00:33:56,784 --> 00:33:58,249
and that Madeline was his accomplice.
758
00:33:58,269 --> 00:34:01,812
I never considered that
she might've acted alone.
759
00:34:02,857 --> 00:34:04,607
So what now?
760
00:34:05,651 --> 00:34:07,109
Maybe...
761
00:34:08,838 --> 00:34:12,281
... we make Levi Scott our star witness.
762
00:34:26,021 --> 00:34:27,688
Oh. Hi.
763
00:34:27,690 --> 00:34:30,115
Sorry. Um, I have a court order
764
00:34:30,134 --> 00:34:32,709
for the medical records
of Samuel Marshall
765
00:34:32,828 --> 00:34:35,529
from September 17, 1982.
766
00:34:35,531 --> 00:34:38,215
This is not for Samuel Marshall.
767
00:34:38,333 --> 00:34:40,033
This is for a Betsy Miers.
768
00:34:40,061 --> 00:34:42,886
Oh, my God, really?
769
00:34:43,004 --> 00:34:46,440
I brought the wrong one, and
I drove an hour to get here.
770
00:34:47,843 --> 00:34:49,559
You want to save me a two-hour drive?
771
00:34:49,678 --> 00:34:52,896
It's from 37 years ago. I don't
even think he's still alive.
772
00:34:52,990 --> 00:34:54,564
Do you mind?
773
00:34:54,659 --> 00:34:56,659
I'll get you a coffee or a doughnut.
774
00:34:56,819 --> 00:34:58,869
All right, let me check.
775
00:35:06,253 --> 00:35:07,819
Excuse me?
776
00:35:07,897 --> 00:35:09,821
You gave me the wrong
file. It's his wife's.
777
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:11,840
It's S. Marshall,
778
00:35:11,917 --> 00:35:13,825
but the "S" is for
Sharon, not for Samuel.
779
00:35:13,886 --> 00:35:15,928
Okay, let me look again.
780
00:35:29,193 --> 00:35:33,420
Mr. Marshall, can you describe your
relationship with Vanessa Evans?
781
00:35:33,422 --> 00:35:35,364
I wouldn't call it a relationship.
782
00:35:35,482 --> 00:35:36,642
What would you call it, then?
783
00:35:38,619 --> 00:35:39,684
Please remember you're under oath.
784
00:35:39,704 --> 00:35:41,778
- We were friends.
- As friends,
785
00:35:41,897 --> 00:35:45,449
were you having a sexual
relationship with Vanessa?
786
00:35:45,567 --> 00:35:46,691
Objection. Leading the witness.
787
00:35:46,711 --> 00:35:49,119
Sustained. Ms. Scott, your point?
788
00:35:49,237 --> 00:35:51,196
It's coming, Your Honor.
789
00:35:51,215 --> 00:35:54,032
Mr. Marshall, what is your blood type?
790
00:35:54,093 --> 00:35:56,201
Objection. Relevance.
791
00:35:56,262 --> 00:35:57,778
Your Honor, my client was convicted
792
00:35:57,780 --> 00:36:00,781
because her blood type is AB
negative, the same blood type
793
00:36:00,783 --> 00:36:03,784
found at the scene of the crime.
I think it's relevant to know
794
00:36:03,786 --> 00:36:05,894
what Mr. Marshall's blood type is.
795
00:36:06,054 --> 00:36:08,397
- Please answer the question.
- Be happy to answer.
796
00:36:08,557 --> 00:36:10,958
My blood type is O positive.
797
00:36:10,985 --> 00:36:14,194
And do you happen to know
the blood type of your wife?
798
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:16,405
What?
799
00:36:16,565 --> 00:36:19,575
Your wife. What was her blood type?
800
00:36:19,693 --> 00:36:23,394
- I... don't know.
- Well, let me tell you.
801
00:36:23,456 --> 00:36:26,231
It was AB negative.
802
00:36:26,308 --> 00:36:28,658
The same blood type
found at the crime scene.
803
00:36:30,370 --> 00:36:32,162
It's also the rarest
blood type in the world.
804
00:36:32,256 --> 00:36:34,256
I would like to submit
Petitioner's Exhibit A,
805
00:36:34,333 --> 00:36:36,592
a copy of Sharon Marshall's medical file
806
00:36:36,710 --> 00:36:39,094
proving that her blood
type was AB negative.
807
00:36:39,213 --> 00:36:42,413
Mr. Marshall, did your
wife murder Vanessa Evans?
808
00:36:45,102 --> 00:36:47,828
My client has spent 37 years behind bars
809
00:36:47,855 --> 00:36:49,087
for a murder she didn't commit,
810
00:36:49,106 --> 00:36:50,866
so will you please tell
this court the truth.
811
00:36:52,359 --> 00:36:54,943
For once in your life,
will you tell the truth?
812
00:36:55,020 --> 00:36:56,940
Your wife found out about
the affair, didn't she?
813
00:36:58,616 --> 00:36:59,907
Didn't she?
814
00:37:07,850 --> 00:37:10,292
When I came home from New
York the next day, I...
815
00:37:12,454 --> 00:37:15,297
... found my wife sitting on the floor.
816
00:37:17,359 --> 00:37:19,134
She was covered in Vanessa's blood.
817
00:37:19,294 --> 00:37:23,864
My wife was not a killer.
818
00:37:23,866 --> 00:37:25,724
Just that when she
found out that I was...
819
00:37:27,812 --> 00:37:29,794
... having an affair with...
820
00:37:29,814 --> 00:37:31,313
Vanessa...
821
00:37:33,433 --> 00:37:35,058
... she snapped.
822
00:37:35,135 --> 00:37:38,487
And so you let Cindy Whitman
take the fall for a murder
823
00:37:38,605 --> 00:37:40,572
that your wife was responsible for.
824
00:37:42,442 --> 00:37:45,494
You may as well have locked an
innocent woman in a cage yourself.
825
00:37:48,557 --> 00:37:52,409
Your Honor, my client has
lost her life over a lie.
826
00:37:52,527 --> 00:37:54,461
Can she please go home now?
827
00:37:59,626 --> 00:38:01,159
Ms. Whitman,
828
00:38:01,178 --> 00:38:04,087
based on the newly-discovered
evidence presented here today,
829
00:38:04,164 --> 00:38:06,682
it is clear that the State of
Illinois owes you an apology.
830
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:11,094
This court hereby declares
you actually innocent.
831
00:38:17,519 --> 00:38:19,586
Does this mean I get my hormones now?
832
00:38:19,588 --> 00:38:21,029
Yes, it does.
833
00:38:29,264 --> 00:38:30,956
You're gonna be okay out there.
834
00:38:32,601 --> 00:38:36,050
Sometimes it's terrifying
to show who we are to the world,
835
00:38:36,060 --> 00:38:38,650
but if we keep our
true identity a secret,
836
00:38:38,651 --> 00:38:43,719
it can mutate and form a
disease that can kill you...
837
00:38:43,837 --> 00:38:47,631
or, even worse, the people around you.
838
00:38:47,725 --> 00:38:50,784
We have to be true to ourselves,
839
00:38:50,786 --> 00:38:52,710
or we could end up hurting
840
00:38:52,730 --> 00:38:54,813
the people we love most.
841
00:38:57,126 --> 00:39:00,127
- Ira, hi.
- Hey. So?
842
00:39:00,154 --> 00:39:02,979
Um, I've been thinking
about your job offer a lot.
843
00:39:03,098 --> 00:39:06,133
- Great. What do you think?
- Have a seat.
844
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:10,651
- Okay.
- So I would be totally lying
845
00:39:10,652 --> 00:39:15,475
if I didn't say that working for
you would be a dream come true.
846
00:39:15,477 --> 00:39:17,753
But if I'm being honest,
847
00:39:17,829 --> 00:39:19,980
I'm already living my dream.
848
00:39:19,982 --> 00:39:21,815
I'm a wrongful conviction advocate,
849
00:39:21,817 --> 00:39:24,409
I am a investigator,
850
00:39:24,428 --> 00:39:26,744
it turns out I'm a truth seeker.
851
00:39:26,764 --> 00:39:28,913
I think that I only do the podcast
852
00:39:28,933 --> 00:39:31,324
so that I can shine
a light on the issues,
853
00:39:31,326 --> 00:39:33,677
- not so that I can be famous.
- Yeah.
854
00:39:33,795 --> 00:39:35,270
I want to stay here, on the ground,
855
00:39:35,430 --> 00:39:37,998
working to get innocent people released,
856
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,258
because that is my purpose.
857
00:39:40,277 --> 00:39:43,278
- I hope you can understand that.
- I do, I mean,
858
00:39:43,397 --> 00:39:47,691
I do, totally. I mean, sort
of. I mean, it's totally great.
859
00:39:47,785 --> 00:39:49,901
Like, this is your life's purpose.
860
00:39:49,954 --> 00:39:52,140
But maybe a big mistake? Like,
from my perspective, like,
861
00:39:52,164 --> 00:39:55,198
I don't know, maybe you're
making a big, terrible mistake.
862
00:39:55,275 --> 00:39:58,126
I don't know. But you need
to do what you need to do,
863
00:39:58,245 --> 00:40:01,279
and so, I... I respect that
that's what you need to do,
864
00:40:01,298 --> 00:40:03,948
so, um, so good luck.
865
00:40:03,968 --> 00:40:05,375
- Thanks.
- Yeah.
866
00:40:05,493 --> 00:40:07,452
Obviously, from this
point forward, you know,
867
00:40:07,471 --> 00:40:10,806
our podcasts... we're
enemies and all, so...
868
00:40:10,882 --> 00:40:12,215
You know I'm kidding, right?
869
00:40:12,333 --> 00:40:15,035
- I do.
- Like, seriously, good luck.
870
00:40:15,062 --> 00:40:16,269
- Thanks.
- Okay.
871
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:29,324
Did you tell him you're not gonna do it?
872
00:40:29,484 --> 00:40:30,951
Yeah.
873
00:40:32,162 --> 00:40:34,221
Am I making a terrible mistake?
874
00:40:34,223 --> 00:40:36,223
Eh...
875
00:40:36,225 --> 00:40:38,225
I mean,
876
00:40:38,227 --> 00:40:40,227
I'm sure you would've had
a great time hobnobbing
877
00:40:40,229 --> 00:40:41,652
with the New York City elite
878
00:40:41,672 --> 00:40:43,897
and eating at the best
restaurants in the world,
879
00:40:43,899 --> 00:40:47,676
living your life like a
joyous 1950s movie montage,
880
00:40:47,753 --> 00:40:50,637
but if you did all that,
guess who wouldn't be there?
881
00:40:51,757 --> 00:40:55,258
- You.
- That's right, this guy.
882
00:40:55,376 --> 00:40:58,020
Yeah, I want you here,
883
00:40:58,138 --> 00:41:00,004
but this firm needs you here.
884
00:41:00,082 --> 00:41:02,024
And as the chairman of the board said,
885
00:41:02,142 --> 00:41:03,917
"Chicago is my kind of town."
886
00:41:03,919 --> 00:41:06,445
It's my kind of town, too.
887
00:41:13,787 --> 00:41:18,189
? My kind of town ?
888
00:41:18,208 --> 00:41:21,434
? Chicago is ?
889
00:41:21,462 --> 00:41:24,862
? My kind of town ?
890
00:41:24,882 --> 00:41:28,383
? Chicago is ?
891
00:41:28,460 --> 00:41:31,444
? My kind ?
892
00:41:31,446 --> 00:41:33,780
? Of people, too ?
893
00:41:33,782 --> 00:41:35,949
? People who... ?
894
00:41:35,951 --> 00:41:37,375
How you doing, Cindy?
895
00:41:37,394 --> 00:41:38,635
? Smile at you... ?
896
00:41:38,729 --> 00:41:40,637
I shouldn't even be here.
897
00:41:40,731 --> 00:41:42,789
I should be dead, too.
898
00:41:42,791 --> 00:41:45,308
We all lost so much in the fire,
899
00:41:45,426 --> 00:41:47,385
but we're still here.
900
00:41:47,404 --> 00:41:50,297
You finally down for us girls now?
901
00:41:50,299 --> 00:41:53,075
I am so sorry, Cindy.
902
00:41:53,151 --> 00:41:55,560
We were so consumed trying
to protect ourselves,
903
00:41:55,621 --> 00:41:58,455
we lost sight of what
the fight was about.
904
00:42:00,459 --> 00:42:02,659
It's okay, sweetie.
905
00:42:02,777 --> 00:42:06,254
It's time for all of
us queens to move on.
906
00:42:06,373 --> 00:42:08,256
Welcome home, Cindy.
907
00:42:13,171 --> 00:42:17,432
? My kind of town ?
908
00:42:17,551 --> 00:42:20,185
? Chicago is ?
909
00:42:21,438 --> 00:42:24,848
? My kind of town ?
910
00:42:24,966 --> 00:42:27,667
? Chicago is ?
911
00:42:27,694 --> 00:42:30,928
? My kind ?
912
00:42:30,948 --> 00:42:34,691
? Of razzmatazz ?
913
00:42:34,785 --> 00:42:38,528
? And it has all that jazz... ?
914
00:42:38,622 --> 00:42:40,013
Hey, Maddie.
915
00:42:40,015 --> 00:42:43,183
- Hi, Mom. How are you?
- I'm good, how are you?
916
00:42:43,185 --> 00:42:44,851
I'm good.
917
00:42:44,853 --> 00:42:47,129
I just called to tell
you that I'm bisexual
918
00:42:47,289 --> 00:42:48,755
and I'm dating a woman.
919
00:42:50,792 --> 00:42:52,467
- Mom?
- Um...
920
00:42:52,627 --> 00:42:56,363
th... that's very interesting.
When can we meet her?
921
00:42:56,365 --> 00:42:58,548
That's a bit tricky
because she's in prison,
922
00:42:58,625 --> 00:43:00,642
but she might be paroled soon.
923
00:43:03,597 --> 00:43:05,564
Mom?
924
00:43:07,042 --> 00:43:09,042
Mom?
925
00:43:10,744 --> 00:43:16,300
_
926
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:23,000
- Synced and corrected by chamallow -
- www.addic7ed.com -
70193
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