All language subtitles for FBI.True.S04E18.720p.WEB.h264-EDITH_eng

60 years ago,
September 15th, 1963.

Exploding dynamite
shattered Birmingham's

16th Street Baptist Church.

Four young girls dressing
for the choir were killed.

In 1995 the chief
tells me they're talking about

reopening the 16th Street
Church case.

One man was
convicted, but police believe
several others got away.

Klansmen like
Bobby Frank Cherry,

and Tommy Blanton.

- This is absolutely
the last time it can
be investigated.

And I thought the best
opportunity at the time

would be interview Cherry first.

In the FBI we
make a lot of headlines.

Drug busts, mob stings,

terrorist takedowns.

We understand why people
want to tell stories about us.

- Mark it!
- Freeze!

- FBI.

- FBI!
- Action!

But they don't know
the half of it.

What really goes down?

We save that for each other.

when we're talking agent
to agent.

This is FBI, True.

- Summer of 97, we're going to
go interview Cherry

who was one of the original
suspects in 63,

and was again a suspect
in the seventies.

- Bob Eddy interviewed him and
almost got a confession out of
him in the seventies.

And we decided to take
Bob Eddy,

as another shock factor.

- So where is Cherry
at this point?

- He's living
in Mabank, Texas.

We got there, and we sent
a deputy out to his house

to pick him up, bring him
to the sheriff's office.

So he comes in and he looks
at Bob Eddy

and he's just like
he saw an old friend.

- Yeah.

- He said: "Bob, I thought
you retired and was

raising cattle somewhere."

And Bob said: "you knew this
would never go away.

You knew this would
never go away.

we're back here to
talk to you again."

He says: "well, my wife got
a doctor's appointment

in an hour and a half."

Says: "that's as long as I can
talk to you."

And I told him: "well, we'll be
glad to try to get it finished
in an hour and a half."

And he finally, after a hour
and a half, come up,

he goes outside, tells his son
to take his wife to the doctor.

And we talk for four hours.

- What does he say
for four hours?

- He was bragging, talking about
chasing women...

That he had nothing to do
with the bombing.

That his wife was sick at
the time, and he went home after

he was working at the Modern
Sign Company making some

Confederate battle flags.

And that was his alibi that
he couldn't have done

the church bombing.

He also said he had
a broke back

and he couldn't
carry such a big bomb.

I said: "well, how do you
know it was a big bomb?"

- There you go!
- And he didn't say anything
about that.

The closest he came
to confessing at that time

was he looked at some
of the pictures.

And he said:
"Man, gosh, doggone".

He says: "That's just like
pulling the trigger on a gun.

You can't call that bullet
back once it's left."

And I thought that we're
all on the right track.

- Right.
- We've got the right suspect.

- How do you end it
with him?

- I told him:
"Whether you tell us the truth

or somebody else tells us truth,
we will get it."

- What happens then?

- It wasn't very much longer
that we get a call

from a Texas deputy.

He says: "Bob Cherry has given
an interview

in the square of the town
with his lawyer,

and I have taped it."

Flanked by his
attorney, and followed

by cameras, Bobby Frank Cherry,
a former Klansman,

came here to answer questions
about his past.

- Mr. Cherry had nothing to do
with the bombing

in Alabama in 1963.

But Cherry's old
links to the Birmingham Klan

brought investigators here
to question him again.

- He is saying: "the FBI
is bothering me again.

It's been 30 years and they
have been harassing me

all my life."

Here, there is
sympathy for a local man

who says police have hounded hm
about the case for years.

That's a long time
to dredge up all that

and put
that man through that.

I mean, ain't he 60-something
years old?

The time may be
right for an old man

to make peace with his past.

But it may be too late
to find the truth.

- When Bob Cherry
called that press conference

and it was shown in Birmingham,

that's when the phone started
ringing.

- Yes. The phone rings and
I answer it, and it's

Teresa Stacy, Cherry's
granddaughter.

And the first words out of her
mouth are:

"thank God, somebody's
doing the church case".

She related that on numerous
family events that Cherry

would brag about blowing up
the church.

- I get this call from
Michael Goins who had worked

with Cherry in Dallas
when he was cleaning apartments

and Cherry admitted being part
of the group that bombed

the church that killed
the girls.

There was a guy named Birdwell
who was friends with

Cherry's son and was in
the house the weekend before

and overheard Cherry talking
to other men about the bomb

and the bomb being ready in
the 16th Street Baptist Church.

All these people, I think,
had really kind of thought

that that Cherry
had gone to prison before.

And they came forward when
they saw him on the news.

And then a year later was
when we got the real break.

There was a woman Cherry
had been married to.

She was his third wife.

We had been looking for her,
but couldn't find her.

She was living in Montana and
she saw a newspaper article

that had been written.
- This big.

- Just a very tiny one.

And called the FBI.

the most significant thing
to me was that

she said Cherry's car broke
down near the church.

She went to pick him up and
he pointed out at the steps,

that area where he said that
they planted the bomb.

And he talked about it and
the fact that he had killed

before and he would kill again,
those kind of things.

- Wow.
- Tommy Blanton was
a lot different.

Blanton was interviewed first
about two weeks

after the bombing.

And when he was asked about
what he was doing that weekend,

he said on that Saturday night,
he went and picked up

his girlfriend, Jean, but
he couldn't really remember

where all they went.

But then he said he had her
home by midnight

that night and then went home
and went to sleep.

Well, what Blanton didn't know
when he was giving this story

is that they had had another
witness at the church,

a lady named Glenn,
Mrs. Kirthus Glenn.

She had seen Blanton's car
behind the church

at 2:00 in the morning.

The dome light was on.

She was able to identify
Robert Chambliss
from photographs.

But they had Blanton's
automobile, a 1957 Chevrolet--

- With a 15-foot antenna.

- Yeah, with a huge
CB antenna on it, easy to spot.

And then when the agent told
him that we've got a witness

who put his car there at 2:00
in the morning, which was

plenty of time for him to get
his buddies and plant

that bomb, he clams up and
doesn't talk anymore,

goes home, calls his girlfriend,
Jean.

And lo and behold, they get
their stories together.

Now they know exactly where they
went on that Saturday night,

who they saw, who they
didn't see.

And in fact, he had her
home at midnight.

But now, according to their
stories, he fell asleep

on her sofa and didn't leave
till 2:45.

Cherry's little statements
that were admissions,

the lies that he gave to
the FBI, we had enough

that we felt like that
we could get an indictment

for Cherry and Blanton even
though it was sure as heck no,
no, sure bet.

At that point the statute of
limitations had run from

a federal perspective.

So that's when we had to fish
or cut bait.

And to do that, we had to move
everything over to

a state grand jury that indicted
these guys for murder.

- This was a tragedy

of absolutely monumental
proportions.

It has scarred the city
of Birmingham for 30,

almost 37 years.

There needs to be some kind
of closure one way or another

on this matter.

In Birmingham,
Alabama, bond was set today

for two white men charged
in the 1963 church bombing

that killed four Black children.

A judge set bond at a maximum
$200,000 each for

Bobby Frank Cherry and Thomas
Blanton Jr.

- We had a stronger case for
Bobby Frank Cherry

but we were hoping that we could
try them together and

Blanton's would be filled
in a little bit by what
Bobby Frank had done.

From the file
review, we found

that Attorney General
Robert Kennedy had approved

recording conversations
between Tommy and his wife Jea.

- These were tapes of bugs that
were placed in Blanton's
kitchen.

- The were National Security
intelligence tapes.

And at that point in time,
we weren't being able to use

them as criminal evidence.

- OK.
- In 1963, the director

of the FBI had certain
authorities for electronic
surveillance and bugs.

It was a different law.

And so there was electronic
surveillance everywhere.

To
the unpracticed eye,

there is nothing suspicious
about this room.

Nevertheless, enclosed within
the frame, behind the print,

is a complete battery-operated
microphone and transmitter.

Not only can a conversation be
plainly heard,

but a permanent
record made.

One that can be used
for future reference.

The FBI was monitoring
Blanton and there was

an agent taking notes.

We had some transcripts,
but they had a lot of gaps
in them

and it didn't have
the magic words.

"I built the bomb."

- OK.
- They weren't all complete

and we couldn't have used
the notes because the agent's

gone and it would have all been
hearsay.

So we knew that there was some
significant information

in these tapes.

We just didn't know where
the hell the tapes were.

We didn't have them.

- We went to where
they should have been.

In a locked drawer.
- An ELSUR?

- An ELSUR room.

And we couldn't find them.

And I had called down like
three times, said:

"you've got to have these."
Nothing.

And then I'm turning to walk
out and I see this box

by the corner, like it's fixing
to be thrown in the trash.

Old, dusty.

And I look at it and damn,
if it didn't have the same

number as our case and there's
eight tapes in there.

- Was your heart pounding?
- Yes, yes.

I mean, it was
a very high point.

- Okay, so you get a call
from Bill.

What does he say to you?

- I found it!

I found it!

And i may have jumped
up and down.

I'm pretty sure I did.

But I'm thinking:
"Oh, my goodness."

Now how are we going
to get the information?

Because the tapes they were so
old, they were so brittle,

- They are 30 years old.

They'll break by the time
somebody is listening.

- And it was decided that we'd
send them to headquarters

and let the audio units up there
put them on the set

we could use for transcribing.

We listened to them and listened
to them and tried to work

on them, tried to work on
them.

- What was the problem?

- The problem was when they
installed the microphone,

they went through a closet,
and it was next to the Blanton's
apartment.

- Right up against
the wallpaper.

- Right against the wall paper.

But the microphone, it happened
to be right under

the kitchen sink.
- Oh no.

And all the water and all
the clanging, the pots and pans.

They had a radio that was
running 24 hours a day.

And you could hear that noise
better than you could
the human voice.

So we actually sent the tapes
back to headquarters to get
them enhanced.

- At that point,
you discovered THE tape?

- I got THE tape.

It was "Q9'".
I can remember it now.

I was making a word for word
transcript, and I hear...

- I am jumping up and

I am dialing Doug's number
as fast as I can.

And as I start saying:
"Doug on the tape"

He says: "Stop, stop, stop.
Don't tell me."

- I was saying: "look we may not
be able to use the tapes.

And because you've heard them,
you may get tainted

for the rest of
the investigation.

So let's hold off."

- I'm thinking:
"I'm out of the case now."

- Yeah.

- I'm gone.
- We had legal issues about

getting the tape into evidence
and whether or not they were
legal at the time.

We really didn't know.
- Right.

We started doing a lot
of work, legal work

and to make a long story short
about this, we ultimately

satisfied ourselves that
the tape was in furtherance

of a conspiracy that included
his wife.

A and that's when I finally
said: "you gotta tell me,

let's listen to these things."

- Doug, tell me about when
you first listened
to the tape.

- It's just hard to describe
it, because it is that

eureka moment.

We'd already indicted Blanton.

And now we've got this guy on
tape three times admitting

he's part of the group that's
planning to bomb,

building the bomb,
those kind of things.

And significantly, that alibi
witness, his wife,

admits on this tape that
she lies to the FBI.

That tape was just
a stunning turn for us.

I turned it over to
Blanton's defense lawyer,

and about four days later
he withdraws from the case.

- Okay.

- That was so fortuitous that
he saw that tape

in a cardboard box.

And this was the solid evidence
that as an investigator

and prosecutor, that you knew
you had the right people.

- Doug, tell me about
when court starts,

- You know right before
the Blanton case

is when Cherry raised
his competency issue.

Cherry, now 72,
was charged last year

with the church bombing,

and then ruled mentally unfit
for trial.

- We had to sever those cases
and put Cherry aside

for a little bit and go strictly
with Blanton first,

in April of 2001.

The media from all over
the world was covering this,

so there was a little bit
of a pressure on us.

I mean, we really made a point
legally to talk to the judge

about the fact that we needed
to go in to what was happening

in Birmingham in 1963.

Because we had jurors on that
panel who had not been born

when this case happened.

- Did you find it difficult
to convey the environment

of the sixties to a jury
of today?

- We tried to lay it
out in a way that told a story.

We connected the dots between
the children's march,

the desegregation of the schools
that occurred right before

the bombing...

with the children,
with the church.

In the trial, the families
were pretty amazing.

Chris McNair, Denise's dad,
testifies of coming over to

the church and then being
directed to the makeshift morgue

at the hospital to identify
the body of his only daughter

at the time, still with a piece
of mortar embedded

in the middle of her skull.

When you saw Ms. Robertson
testifying about the whole

world was shaking when the bomb
went off.

When you hear a mother talking
about screaming:

"my baby, my baby", knowing that
Denise was down there.

When you see Reverend Cross,
who was the minister who always

had the guilt of the church
being a focal point in living

with these girls' death, you're
more than just a prosecutor,
an investigator.

You're part of that family.

You're part of that community.

They became part of us.

- When the jury foreman stood up
in the Blanton trial,

it was so quick they
came back.

And I'm saying they didn't
believe a word.

They're claiming his innocence.

I'm standing there and it took
about the second or maybe third

verdict for me to really
understand that she said guilty.

- Clear the hall!
- Clear the hall.

- It took the jury only about
two and a half hours to find him

guilty on the strength of that
tape recording that Bill found.

A judge ruled tht
former Ku Klux Klansman

Bobby Frank Cherry is mentally
competent to stand trial
for murder.

- The Cherry case is a series
of admissions and lies

with Bobby Frank Cherry where
he had lied to the FBI

when he was interviewed so many
times in the 60s.

Some really damning testimony
came from his ex-wife.

She was really, I mean,
she was strong,

she knew exactly
what was going on.

You heard him point
to the church and say:

"I put the bomb underneath those
steps, correct?"

- Several times he said that.

You also said that
he said he lit the fuse?

- Yes
When did he say
that?

- Different times he said
he lit the fuse.

Cherry's
granddaughter, Teresa Stacey

also testified against him,
telling the court:

"he said he helped
blow them up".

- Sarah, the survivor, she was
the last witness

that we had in
both of these trials.

She talked about going into
the ladies' lounge

and she said: "I saw my sister
tying the sash of Denise's new
dress."

And then there was
the explosion, and she's buried

under all the rubble.

When I asked her, I said:

"did you ever see her alive
again?"

She said: "No, sir."

And with that, I looked up and
said:

"your honor, the state of
Alabama rests its case."

Whatever this jury
decides instantly

will become a part of history's
judgment on this city,

and its moment of infamy.

To many people here, the Bobby
Cherry verdict will represent

the difference between justice
delayed, and justice denied.

- When these jurors reached
the verdict, they just all
started crying.

It was guilty.

Keep your eyes
on the prize.

Joy arrived today
in Birmingham,

along with a sense
of justice decades overdue.

- It was really justice
for the four of them.

This lets them know they didn't
die in vain.

- This verdict today sends
a message that's
important today.

That the people that bomb and
kill our innocent citizens

and children, we will never
give up.

You know, I've been really
blessed in my life

with some really cool stuff,
being elected to the U.S.

Senate, United States attorney.

But this case is at the top
of everything because

it meant so much
to so many people.

I think that what sums it up is
Ms. Robertson, Alpha Robertson.

when she died and I went to her
memorial, her son, he said:

"thanks for what you did.

It's because you she died
with a smile on her face."

That doesn't get too much
better as a lawyer.

- Yeah.

It was probably
the most important case

that I've ever worked on.

It was for the girls.

It was for the victims.

- I consider this the most
significant event, period,
in my life.

And were just the two that
were selected,

to, I like to say to put our
hands on history.

Ben, you like to say.
- History touched us.

- Yeah.
- That and we had the chance...

To change
history.

Subtitling: difuze