All language subtitles for FBI True Season - 2 ep7

- I'm Tammy Payne
in the TV9 newsroom.

If you are anywhere downtown,

you've probably heard it
and felt it--

an explosion
of some kind downtown.

- The Alfred P. Murrah
Building

in Downtown Oklahoma City
ripped apart by,

as far as we can tell,
a single explosion.

- I looked over my shoulder
out into Downtown,

and it was just
a large black cloud of smoke.

- It's total chaos.

Sirens are blasting.

Cars are on fire.

People are screaming.

People are injured and hurt.

- And they haven't found anyone
from the office yet.

- People are being
carried away.

- Damn it, move!
- This is one of the critical.

- Potentially were over
a thousand people in there,

a daycare facility
that housed upwards of 50 kids.

- This is the deadliest
terror attack on US soil, ever.

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- Early on, there was
speculation in all quarters.

- A U.S. government source
has told "CBS News"

that it has Middle East
terrorism written all over it.

- But you let the facts
lead the investigation.

- I saw everybody starting to
run, which I thought was odd.

But then I heard
over a loudspeaker,

"Second bomb. Evacuate."

- Get 'em back!
Get 'em back!

- Go! Go!
- Get 'em back!

- In the FBI, we make
a lot of headlines.

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Drug busts,

mob stings,

terrorist takedowns.

- Get down! Get down!

- We understand why people
want to tell stories about us.

- Mark it.

- Freeze!
- FBI.

- FBI!
- Action!

- But they don't know
the half of it.

What really goes down,

we save that for each other

when we're talking
agent to agent.

#

This is "FBI True."

#

- Kristy Kottis is
a 24-year veteran of the FBI.

She worked gangs,
crimes against children,

as well as human
and drug trafficking.

Kottis was the supervisor

of the FBI's
threat response squad,

overseeing the bureau's
response to terrorism threats

in New York City.

- So on that day in 1995,
April 19th,

where were you, Barry,

when you first heard
about what's happened?

- I'm Tammy Payne
in the TV9 newsroom.

If you are anywhere downtown,

you've probably heard it
and felt it--

an explosion
of some kind downtown.

- The Alfred P. Murrah
Building

in Downtown Oklahoma City
ripped apart by,

as far as we could tell,
a single explosion.

- We had an arrest warrant
for a fugitive.

We thought he might be
at Tinker Air Force Base,

which was about seven
linear miles from downtown.

It was a tremendous explosion.

- Wow.
- Look at that shot.

- Holy cow.
- It is absolutely incredible.

The side of the federal
building has been blown off.

- It registered 3.2
on the Richter scale,

like an earthquake.
- Oh, my gosh.

- Barry Black earned a degree
in accounting

before joining the FBI
in 1988.

He worked white collar crime
before training as a sniper,

and then
as a master bomb technician.

- After the explosion,
I looked over my shoulder

out to the west to downtown,

and it was just
a large black cloud of smoke

starting to blow to the north.

It was clearly
a large explosion

just based on the report
and the ground shock.

- Bob, where were you
that fateful day

on April 19th, 1995?

- On that particular day,
I was at a fundraiser--

a golf tournament
in Shawnee, Oklahoma,

which is about 30 miles east
of Oklahoma City.

I was with the agent in charge
for secret service,

the U.S. marshal,
and the FBI supervisor.

Then all of a sudden,
all of our pagers went off.

- Bob Ricks
joined the FBI in 1969

and became
the special agent in charge

of the bureau's
Oklahoma office.

He served as commissioner

of the Oklahoma Department
of Public Safety,

then chief of police in
Edmond, Oklahoma, until 2017.

- So I called my secretary
at the FBI office,

and I said, you know,
"What's going on?"

She said, "We've had
some kind of a bombing

down at the federal building."

- About a third of the
building has been blown away.

Uh, this is just devastating.

- And so, we need
to get to Oklahoma City

and see
what the heck is going on.

- It's very chaotic.

We don't know exactly
what caused the explosion.

Police reports have said
that it is

in the federal
courthouse building.

It was the target,
and the entire front of it,

from top to bottom, is gone.

- Barry,
I know you're a bomb tech.

What are some
of the thoughts and options

that are going
through your mind?

- In 1995, terrorism
was not in the forefront.

We started hearing chatter

about maybe a gas main
explosion or a plane crash.

- So you guys jump
into your work cars, and--

- Yeah, we're going,
and I'm trying

to get any information
that I can.

And I'm now talking to
my assistant agent in charge.

Then he says something
that resonates forever.

He says,
"Bob, you know what today is?"

And I took a pause, and I said,
"what do you mean?"

He said,
"Today is April the 19th."

And my heart sank.

April 19 was
the last day of Waco,

when the conflagration occurred

and the compound was burned
to the ground.

- The Branch Davidian compound
in Waco, Texas,

went up in flames

after a seven-week standoff
with federal agents.

David Koresh and 84
of his followers were killed.

Survivors and the FBI
still disagree

about how the fire started.

- The previous year,
we were on high alert.

The chatter was high.

We expected something--

some retaliation
for the events in Waco.

But nothing happened.

So this is now the two-year
anniversary of Waco.

- Are you in the car
when you hear

it's the federal building?
- Yes.

- And what are your thoughts
at that point?

- My wife was
a federal probation officer.

She parked in that building.

- Wow.
- Her office was

across the street
at the old federal courthouse.

So where she was
was forefront in my mind.

- Bob, you're
the special agent in charge

of the Oklahoma Division,

so you're the decision maker
for the FBI.

When do you first roll up
on what you're seeing?

- It's total chaos.

- Many people
are running around,

trying to find friends
and coworkers.

- Sirens are blasting.

Cars are on fire.
People are screaming.

People are injured and hurt.

People are being carried away.

- Move! Damn it, move!

- When I arrived that morning,

I was maybe 200 feet
from the crater.

There's a 32-foot crater
in the street.

- Take me there.
What's that?

- I've never seen anything
like it.

Most of the federal building
was gone.

- It is amazing sight.

It's as if somebody came

and sheared off
an entire half of the building.

- Cars were burning.

The roof of the adjacent
building had been torn off.

Other buildings had collapsed.

There were
about 300 buildings damaged.

It was a--
it was a tremendous scene.

- At any time of the day
in that federal building,

you'll have upwards
of a thousand people.

- And who was in that building?

- You have all
of the major federal agencies

that are involved--
secret service, ATF,

military department,
DEA, social security.

People coming to get
their social security benefits

or check on information.

- Didn't that have a fed
kid program, or a fed care?

- Kids.
- They had a daycare.

A daycare facility
that housed upwards of 50 kids.

- Your wife's in the building.
So what are you thinking?

- I walked the entire block
to survey the scene.

They have
court security officers--

we call them blue coats--

and one that knew both myself
and my wife, I saw him.

And I asked if he had seen her.

And he said,
yes, she was OK.

Having somebody say
that he had seen her,

that freed me up to go ahead
and do the rest of the job.

- I'm standing there by myself
in front of this crater,

and this building
that's been blown away.

And all I can do
is just say a prayer

that, you know,
"Lord, help me through this,

"'cause I don't think
I can do it by myself.

"And just help me find justice

"for those
who were killed today

"and those
who have been affected

by this horrible tragedy."

Once I said my prayer,

you have to go
into a detached mode.

If you continue
to focus on the lives

that are being lost
and injured,

the emotions will overwhelm you

to the point where it's--
- It's crippling.

- Absolutely.
It can just take over,

and you can't respond.

It's crippling, I think,
is probably the best way

to describe it.

- Paramount right now

is that we're
in a life-saving recovery mode.

- Absolutely.

- Barry is working
on the bomb side.

But at this point,
our focus is saving lives.

And that's always
the most important thing.

- They haven't found anyone
from the office yet.

- The rescue workers are
working at their own risk,

but there is one thing
that is certain:

this is the deadliest terror
attack on U.S. soil, ever.

- It became evident
very early on.

Gas explosions look
a little bit different.

The crater,
the placement of the crater,

this was going to be
what we call an LVB,

a large vehicle bomb,
or a vehicle-borne IED.

Not common
in the United States,

And it was clearly gonna be

several thousand pounds
of explosives.

- During this investigation

and as this chaotic scene
is unfolding,

something else happened where
you had to make a decision

about whether we keep going,
recover, or change course.

- After I was there
approximately an hour,

we had set up
a temporary command post.

So we were
about two blocks away.

And communications are awful.

Our cell phones will not work.

All of a sudden, I get a runner
that comes in and said,

"There's another bomb
in the building!"

- This building
was right in it,

and my mom's in there.

- There's a bomb!
Move! Move! Move!

- Barry, are you familiar
with this second device

that was found,
or were you near it?

- I was on the east side
of the building,

up where the playground
had been,

just trying to assess
the blast pattern.

There were kids' toys
on the ground,

and there were still victims
in the building.

To my left,
you could look up

seven, eight,
nine stories high.

- And what do you see
when you look up?

- Well, there are
people in the windows

that desperately wanted down,

waving their arms,
making sure--

they wanted somebody to know
that they were still there.

I saw everybody
starting to run...

Which I thought was odd.

But then I heard
over a loudspeaker,

"Second bomb. Evacuate."

- Let's go! Let's go!

- And it was described
as a large wooden box

with explosive markings on it.

It appeared to be a piece
of military ordnance

called a tow missile.

- And what does that look like?

- Imagine a long, wooden,
rectangular crate.

- OK.
- And inside's

a olive drab tube,
open on each end.

It's an anti-tank weapon,
maybe 6 inches in diameter,

like an old bazooka from the
World War II movies, sort of.

- I had to put out the order

to evacuate
for their own protection.

- Get 'em back!
Get your stuff, right now!

- It's driving me crazy.

There are people
who have been seriously injured

that could bleed out

if we don't put tourniquets
on them immediately.

There are people's lives
that we could save

that we're probably not saving.

- Tell me about the injured
that you had to leave behind.

What were they saying?
What were they doing?

- They didn't want us to leave,

but we had to leave them.

- What did they say?
- "Don't leave."

- Many of them made
the hard decision not to leave,

and some people
holding the hands

of those
who were still breathing.

- Wow.

- Some were carrying out
operations on people inside.

- What do you mean?

- We had one lady
that was completely trapped.

Her leg was under debris
that was so heavy,

they could not
remove the debris.

- Wow.
- So they were in the process

of amputating her leg
when the order went out.

- Her blood pressure
was falling.

There was really no choice.

- And they made
the decision to stay

and to save her life.

- We couldn't lift anything
to extract her.

And the only choice, really,

was to either do that
or to die.

- There were state
and local bomb techs

who went in
and recovered the device.

Upon examination, they said,
"Something's wrong.

This is a tow missile,
but it's inert."

No explosive,
no warhead.

So using the serial numbers
on the launch tube,

we were able
to recreate its origin.

And it was actually part
of a undercover sting operation

for another federal agency,
so it wasn't a bomb at all.

- It seemed like an eternity,

but I think it was close
to about 40 minutes.

Finally, we got the word.

So I had to put the order
back in that it was all clear

and everybody could go back
into the building.

- Bob, I remember hearing
some early speculation

on, like, who did what.
What were you hearing

as the special agent
in charge of this?

- Early on, there was
speculation in all quarters.

One particular congressman
came out

and made
a declarative statement

that this was obviously
Middle Eastern terrorism.

- A U.S. government source
has told "CBS News"

that it has Middle East
terrorism written all over it.

- It looked like
a number of bombs

that had occurred
in the Middle East,

but you let the facts
lead the investigation.

You don't take your theory
and make the facts

fit your theory.
- Right.

Barry, when as a bomb tech

do we get our first break
in this investigation?

- The key piece
came very early on.

A reserve deputy called me
and my partner, Jim Norman,

over to this rear axle,
if you will.

- What's a rear axle?

- Well, it's just
the heavy part of the car,

where the differential is,
in a rear-wheel drive vehicle.

Thing weighs about 300 pounds.

It exhibited blast damage.

Clearly,
it had been extremely close

to the seat of the explosion.

It hit a car outside of tower.

It was twisted.

A lot of explosives
use heavy oxidizers.

It was already starting
to rust a little bit,

which is another tell.

But on it was stamped

a confidential
vehicle identification number.

And the deputy
wiped some grease away.

That number
was clearly visible.

So I wrote it down,
Jim wrote it down.

We compared notes

to make sure there was
no transcription error.

And then Jim gave his note
to a runner

that took it
to the command post.

- So we took that.

We ran it through the
National Insurance Crime Bureau

in Dallas.

And within roughly an hour
or so,

they are able to trace it,
that it's now--

it comes back to a Ryder truck.

Ryder truck headquarters
is in Miami, Florida.

Then we dispatch agents
to Miami, Florida,

and we go talk to Ryder truck.

And they were immediately able
to determine

that that particular truck
had been rented

from an Elliott's Body Shop
in Junction City, Kansas.

But I have agents call
the Kansas City Division.

We set out leads

that they immediately need
to go to Elliott's Body Shop

and get all the details
they possibly can.

- What happens then?

- In reviewing the records,
we learned

that the truck was rented
on April the 17th

by a Robert "Bob" Kling.

He used a South Dakota
driver's license,

indicated that he was gonna
use the truck for four days,

was gonna go
to Omaha, Nebraska.

Not only did they give us
the background information,

they gave us descriptions

of what they thought
were the people involved.

Initially, they said
that there were two people

that came in
and rented the truck.

We got an artist's conception
that was done

of not only Robert Kling

but the gentleman
that he said that was with him.

We have no idea
who Bob Kling is.

We don't know
if he's a real person.

We now take agents,

and we disperse them
throughout Junction City.

And we're trying
to see if we can come up

with somebody
that's had a Ryder truck

that could fit the description

that was given by the people
in Elliott's Body Shop.

One particular agent
went to a motel

called the Dreamland Motel.

And the owner of the motel
says, "As a matter of fact,

"I had a young man in here
who had a Ryder truck,

had rented his room
for four days."

It started on a Friday before,
on the 14th,

and had checked out
on the 18th.

The registration
turns out to be

in the name of a gentleman
by the name of Timothy McVeigh.

We have no idea
who Timothy McVeigh is.

There's no criminal history.

We also show
the owner of the motel

the artist's conception,

and she says, "Yes,
that looks almost exactly

like the gentleman
that had rented the room."

So then we checked
telephone records,

and we learned
that Timothy McVeigh has,

over the four-day period
that he was there,

made four or five calls.

One of those was
to a local business there

called the Hunam Palace,

which is a Chinese place,
for takeout.

Made an order
of moo goo gai pan

to be delivered
to room number 25

under the name of Robert Kling.

So now,
for the first time,

we have somebody else
associated with Robert Kling.

Is Timothy McVeigh
Robert Kling,

or is there
a second person involved?

We do not know at this stage.

But we do know now
that we have Kling

associated
with Timothy McVeigh.

Timothy McVeigh
also had a Ryder truck.

We now really have
probable cause

that a Timothy McVeigh
somehow is involved

with the bombing in Oklahoma.

- There was
an offline NCIC search

for the name
of Timothy McVeigh,

and that search revealed

that he had been arrested by
an Oklahoma Highway patrolman.

- So he's under arrest?
- Yes.

He was in custody about
90 minutes after the bombing.

- OK.
- An Oklahoma Highway

patrol trooper
had stopped McVeigh

northbound on I-35,

going away from Oklahoma City
towards Kansas.

He was passed
by this yellow Mercury.

And he noticed the Mercury
didn't have a license plate,

so he pulled the car over
for failing to display a plate.

McVeigh got out.

And the trooper noticed a bulge
under McVeigh's jacket

and recognized it as a pistol.

- Oh, wow.

- McVeigh said, "I've
got a gun, and it's loaded."

And Trooper Hanger
pulled his pistol,

put it to McVeigh's head,
and said, "So is mine."

- Oh, wow.
Yeah, well, there you go.

- He was booked
into the county jail.

- My right-hand man
came in and said,

"Boss, you're not
gonna believe this.

Timothy McVeigh is in custody."

And I said, "What?"
- Yeah.

- And he said,
"He was arrested

"approximately 90 minutes
after the bombing

and is currently in jail
in Noble County, Oklahoma."

- Unbelievable.

- But he's getting ready
to have an appearance

before the judge
and is gonna be released.

I use
the National Guard helicopter,

and I dispatch a team.

I have a special agent
in charge from Dallas,

and his assistant,
as well as two of my agents,

and I dispatch them up
to Perry, Oklahoma,

to make the arrest
of Timothy McVeigh.

- I flew up.
We called ahead.

Had the troopers
find us a spot to land

on the side of the highway.

I hopped out
to stay with the car

until we got a warrant for it.

You always have
to be concerned about,

you know, explosives
or booby traps,

or other types of forensic
evidence like fingerprints,

hairs, fibers,
such and such.

And the rest of the group
went over

to take custody of McVeigh.

- The team that was dispatched
up to Perry,

they immediately go in
and ask him,

"Do you know why we're here?"

And he says,

"It's probably about
that Oklahoma City thing."

- Wow.

- So then they give him
his Miranda rights.

And he says,
"I do not want to speak

until I confer
with my attorney."

So that was the sum total
of the conversation

that we had
with Timothy McVeigh.

We never had
any other discussions.

- McVeigh was held
for two days

and was minutes
from a likely release on bond

when FBI agents
using a computer

found that the most wanted man
in America

was already in jail.

- As you can imagine,
the tensions

are rising significantly
in Oklahoma.

People know people or have
relatives that have died.

And right now,
even in Perry, Oklahoma,

there's crowds
that are starting to gather.

They're starting to get noisy.

So we're very much
concerned about a--

a Jack Ruby situation.

He's been shot.

Oswald has been shot.
Lee Oswald.

- We have to actually
protect Timothy McVeigh now

to make sure
he's not assassinated.

So we come up with a plan
of using a van

to back it up closely
to where he is.

And we march him out

so that the public
can actually see him.

- You murderer!

- They were, you know, booing.

A lot of emotion.

- Tonight in Perry, Oklahoma,
suspect Tim McVeigh,

among the most wanted men
in American history,

was escorted
from the courthouse.

- Well,
now we're trying to see,

who is Timothy McVeigh?

What is his role
in the bombing?

It doesn't appear logical

that one person
could do it on his own.

Did he participate
in building the bomb?

Was he just a coconspirator?

And were others involved?

We do not have
the whole picture.

- Now with one suspect
in jail,

the FBI says another
remains on the loose.

- They knew
when it was gonna happen.

They knew
where it was gonna happen.

And they knew
how it was gonna happen.

- Not only are we trying
to prove a criminal case,

we want to know why.

Why did this happen?

What could cause somebody
to do this?

- The basic tenets
of, you know, hatred,

hatred for the government,
are alive and well.

- All right,
they're going into the house.

They are walking
into the house.

- Literally, he was
trying to start a war

against the United States.

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