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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:09,960 [ringing tone] 2 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:11,840 [rustling against microphone] 3 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:19,760 [voicemail beeps] 4 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:21,359 ASHRAF MARWAN: [over phone] Hello. - Hi. 5 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:23,400 Hello. About your book, if you could call me back... 6 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:25,240 on my mobile. Thank you. 7 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:26,800 [hangs up] 8 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:30,800 [ringing tone] 9 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:31,960 [voicemail beeps] 10 00:00:32,160 --> 00:00:34,840 MAN: Please, hello, can you call me? It's about your book. 11 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:36,800 Thank you. [hangs up] 12 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:42,400 [ringing tone, voicemail beeps] 13 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:43,960 MAN: Hello, hi, good afternoon. 14 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:46,280 If you can call me, I'm the subject of your book. 15 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:47,800 Thank you. [hangs up] 16 00:01:18,320 --> 00:01:21,320 DR. AHRON BREGMAN: At around one o'clock, Ashraf Marwan, 17 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:24,720 an Egyptian super spy... 18 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:30,280 fell off the balcony... 19 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:35,240 in Carlton Terrace, Central London. 20 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:42,440 The medics were directed to a small rose garden, 21 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:48,360 he uttered a few words and he died. 22 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,680 When I was told, my mind was racing. 23 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:57,120 I asked myself, "Was he pushed?" 24 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:58,520 "Did he jump?" 25 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:03,480 The rumor was, especially in Egypt, that it was not an accident. 26 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:05,440 It was a murder. 27 00:02:13,640 --> 00:02:18,840 1948, in Palestine, Jews declared the State of Israel. 28 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:27,360 Over the next day, Egypt and the Arab neighbors invaded. 29 00:02:27,920 --> 00:02:29,200 [bomb explodes] 30 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:31,280 [crowd clamoring] 31 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:36,680 So, for years, Israel and Egypt 32 00:02:36,920 --> 00:02:38,480 hated each other. 33 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:52,960 And Ashraf Marwan was one of the greatest modern spies 34 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,480 at the center of the conflict. 35 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:58,920 [indistinct chatter] 36 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:05,000 Ironically Israel regarded Marwan as their best agent ever. He was the number one source of Israeli intelligence. 37 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:21,800 Few agents in history provided such... 38 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,680 splendid information. Out of this world. 39 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,400 DR. BREGMAN: His death is a mystery. 40 00:03:29,920 --> 00:03:32,400 The rumor was it was a murder, 41 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:38,080 and just the day before he told me that he feared for his life, 42 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:40,160 but who did it? 43 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,440 The Egyptian intelligence killed Ashraf Marwan, 44 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,000 because he was a traitor. 45 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:48,880 The Israelis believe that he was their man, 46 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:53,600 but he tricked the Israelis into taking him seriously. 47 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:55,920 He served Egypt well. 48 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,240 Ashraf Marwan's wife, Mona, 49 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,920 she thought that he may have been murdered by the Israelis. 50 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,400 And when I think about it now, 51 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:14,440 I'm still asking myself, "Was I responsible?" 52 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,520 I was the one who unmasked him to the world. 53 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,960 [church bells ringing] 54 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:42,600 RAJEEV SYAL: In 2007, June 27th, I got a phone call 55 00:04:42,840 --> 00:04:47,240 about the mysterious death that had happened just hours earlier. 56 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:50,440 Of course, I'm intrigued. Who wouldn't be? 57 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,280 And as a journalist I wanted to get to the bottom of it. 58 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,160 The most pressing, immediate issue was how did he die? 59 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,320 Was it murder? Suicide? Was it an accident? 60 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,320 So, this is the place from which he fell. 61 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,200 He fell five floors down. 62 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:26,160 The family insisted that he had a whole set of plans, 63 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:28,120 family functions to attend, 64 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:30,760 he had a business meeting on that very day 65 00:05:30,840 --> 00:05:32,120 in that building there. 66 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:38,600 That's why the family believes that there was just no truth 67 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,640 to rumors that he could have killed himself. 68 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,200 I wanted to get to the truth, but that turned out to be 69 00:05:46,280 --> 00:05:49,040 a lot trickier than I first imagined. 70 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:00,760 DR. BREGMAN: Well, the day he died, I was waiting for him to phone. 71 00:06:01,840 --> 00:06:04,840 I thought that something is wrong with the reception. 72 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:10,760 So, I went up the stairs to see whether or not he left me a message. 73 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:13,000 But nothing. 74 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:21,920 I have always been interested in Middle Eastern wars. 75 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,680 When I was in the military it was known 76 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,440 there was a super spy who worked 77 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,360 with Israel's secret intelligence service. 78 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:40,040 But the Israeli military censorship made sure 79 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,880 that nothing is written about it. 80 00:06:44,840 --> 00:06:46,200 A great secret. 81 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:47,959 FEMALE REPORTER: Six Arabs killed here 82 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,359 in the West Bank, seven in Gaza. [soldiers shouting indistinctly] 83 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:54,560 DR. BREGMAN: When the Palestinian uprising of 1987 started... 84 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:56,640 [men shouting in foreign language] 85 00:06:56,840 --> 00:06:58,840 ...it was a turning point for me. 86 00:06:59,960 --> 00:07:03,600 I saw Israeli soldiers beating a Palestinian. 87 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:06,560 I said, "This is madness. 88 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:10,320 You are inflicting on the Palestinians the same pain 89 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,120 that other nations have inflicted on the Jews, 90 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:17,400 and I'm not coming back until the violence has stopped." 91 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:19,760 "Big deal, Ahron Bregman is not coming back..." 92 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,280 And I'd emigrate to the UK. 93 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:33,600 After I finished my PhD on the Arab-Israeli conflict, 94 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,320 I joined the Department of War Studies 95 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:38,840 at King's College London. 96 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,320 Have we discussed the spy here in class or not? 97 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:42,720 Was it mentioned? 98 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:44,519 FEMALE STUDENT: Yeah, no. DR. BREGMAN: Right. 99 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:48,640 DR. BREGMAN: And I've published six books you know nothing about... 100 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:50,840 It's a joke. Don't use it. 101 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:52,520 [Tommy laughs] I'm using that. [chuckles] 102 00:07:54,960 --> 00:08:00,720 In 1998, I was a consultant on a major documentary, 103 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:05,120 and I interviewed the director of Military Intelligence 104 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,880 in Israel, General Eli Zeira. 105 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,880 When we finished the interview, we were standing 106 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:16,920 in the corridor, and what he said to me there 107 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:18,800 changed everything for me. 108 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:24,400 He said that the Mossad's top spy was a double agent. 109 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:27,680 I was shocked to the core. 110 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:32,240 TOMMY: What were the implications of the spy being a double? 111 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:34,840 DR. BREGMAN: If he was a double agent 112 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:40,280 during one of the most important wars in Middle Eastern history, 113 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:47,480 then all the intelligence the Israeli's based their decisions on 114 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,040 would be cast into doubt. 115 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,360 [indistinct chatter] [man singing in Arabic] 116 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:58,280 Israel is dependent on her intelligence. 117 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,360 They have to get it right always, 118 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:06,960 and if their best spy misled them, 119 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,520 it will just ruin the reputation. 120 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,400 Therefore, the intelligence service... 121 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:17,400 TOMMY: Okay, Amos. 122 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,800 DR. BREGMAN: ...they have an interest... 123 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:21,840 TOMMY: What was at risk? What was at stake? 124 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,040 DR. BREGMAN: ...in keeping the story intact. 125 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:26,880 TOMMY: It's a sensitive subject. 126 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:32,880 The young Bregman was uber-motivated. 127 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:38,440 A scoop like this was something I'd always dreamt about, 128 00:09:40,680 --> 00:09:45,440 but then I thought it might be a very dangerous game. 129 00:09:45,560 --> 00:09:47,040 [button clicks on camera] [tape whirs] 130 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:53,840 [button clicks on camera] 131 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:04,040 AMOS GILBOA: Ashraf Marwan was... 132 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:08,280 the son of an army general, 133 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:14,200 and people see in that a sign of social seniority. 134 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,720 He graduated in chemistry. 135 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:19,880 At the same time... 136 00:10:21,560 --> 00:10:26,160 he met Mona, daughter of Gamal Abdel Nasser... 137 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:29,960 President in Egypt. 138 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:36,080 They fell in love. 139 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:42,280 He knew how... 140 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:45,480 to jump to the good bed. 141 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:50,720 He married the daughter of Nasser. The almighty Nasser. 142 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,800 Nasser was like God for the Arabs. 143 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:57,240 Idol. 144 00:10:57,720 --> 00:10:58,760 Nasser. 145 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:01,120 [crowd cheering] 146 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,720 1967, this was a crisis moment for Nasser. 147 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:11,560 Israel crippled the Egyptian Air Force on the ground. 148 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,920 And then, Egypt lost the Sinai Peninsula. 149 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:28,240 Egypt felt disbelief that this could happen to us. 150 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:29,320 [indistinct chatter] 151 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:33,040 It was a dent in the dignity of the country, 152 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,760 and the process of rebuilding the army started 153 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,240 for one objective, launching a war, 154 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:42,960 regaining the Sinai, 155 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:48,600 and regaining the sense of pride which every Egyptian felt... 156 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:51,080 before 1967. 157 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,280 HAZEM KANDIL: Marwan entered into the Nasser family 158 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:56,600 at this moment of crisis. 159 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:02,640 YOSSI MELMAN: He wants to be important, but Nasser didn't entrust 160 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:06,720 into him the kind of missions that Ashraf Marwan believed, 161 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:10,040 "Now when I marry into the family I'll get them." 162 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,520 ABDALLAH HOMOUDA: Nasser, he felt that this guy 163 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,240 did not want to marry the girl for her personality, 164 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,120 he wanted to marry the daughter of the President. 165 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:28,760 So, Nasser gave Ashraf Marwan a junior position in the presidency. 166 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:32,520 It was like when you have adversary politician, 167 00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:34,920 you bring him close to keep him under your eye, 168 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:38,120 rather than leave him free to wreak havoc. 169 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:44,200 Ashraf felt in a way demeaned, punished, 170 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,600 and made him resent Nasser. 171 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,720 So, he came to London with his new wife. 172 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:57,880 But reports back home... 173 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:04,120 indicated that he was loving an expensive lifestyle, 174 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:05,800 nightclubs, 175 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:08,120 restaurants, 176 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,400 living beyond the means... 177 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,360 of the ordinary Egyptians. 178 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,080 DR. KANDIL: Nasser lived a very frugal life 179 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,200 and he felt that it was highly embarrassing. 180 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:30,760 Nasser shunted them back to Cairo. 181 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:36,240 Ashraf felt that he was handcuffed with Nasser. 182 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:40,520 DR. BREGMAN: So, he wants to take revenge on his father-in-law. 183 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:41,920 [cameras clicking] 184 00:13:57,560 --> 00:14:00,160 MALE REPORTER: Israel leaders call it a total destruction 185 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:01,560 of Egypt's Sinai forces. 186 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,440 SHABTAI SHAVIT: Immediately after the Six-Day War of '67... 187 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:18,360 the issue of a possible war down the road with Egypt... 188 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:23,720 was the number one priority of the Mossad. 189 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:29,040 [speaking indistinctly] 190 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,160 DAVID ARBEL: Every country, every government 191 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,200 has to deal with the intentions 192 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:39,680 of our enemies, and the more you know about it, 193 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:44,440 the better you can prevent a war. 194 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:46,000 [indistinct chatter] 195 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:51,480 So, military intelligence for the Mossad was very, very important. 196 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:58,440 AMOS GILBOA: The Mossad is responsible for... 197 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,440 collection and special operations. 198 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,680 [automatic gunfire] 199 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:09,000 [explosion] [glass shatters] 200 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,680 [men clamoring] 201 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,360 [silenced pistol firing] 202 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:22,000 This is not the CIA. CIA deals with all the world. 203 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:26,320 He has agent in South America, in Africa, 204 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:30,120 maybe in the Northern Pole, I don't know. 205 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:35,600 Ev... All around the world. Here, in Israel, it is focused. 206 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:40,600 The arch enemies. 207 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:42,680 [explosion] 208 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:44,160 [gunfire] 209 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,360 TOMMY: Can you describe for me your job, your role, 210 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:48,840 when you were working in the field? 211 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:50,280 No, I prefer not. 212 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:06,200 SHABTAI SHAVIT: So, '67, at that moment, we started to look for intelligence 213 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,280 that would either support, or... 214 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:15,480 or the opposite, the issue of war down the road with Egypt. 215 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,240 [children shouting playfully] 216 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,040 TOMMY: Did you have any concerns about the possible implications 217 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,000 of unmasking a spy? 218 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:41,880 Look, Tom, the Mossad could be very dangerous 219 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:48,080 and unmasking one of the spies could have endangered me, 220 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:50,600 but I had to know. 221 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,720 It was a risk, it was a gamble. I am a bit reckless. 222 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,560 TOMMY: What did your wife have to say about all this? 223 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:04,960 I knew that she would be unhappy... 224 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,520 to see me involved in such a thing. 225 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:13,720 She was much more responsible and less reckless than me, 226 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,080 so I told her nothing of my spy games. 227 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:30,800 I poured over hundreds of articles and books 228 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,480 looking for clues to see who he was. 229 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:40,120 And I read anything that I could put my hands on. 230 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,880 And then a key book came into my hand, 231 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,560 which is the biography of Eli Zeira, 232 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:52,280 the man who said to me that there was a double agent 233 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:54,520 who misled the Mossad. 234 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,280 Zeira writes about an unnamed spy, 235 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:00,920 and then he mentioned three people 236 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:03,560 who were sitting in a meeting in Riyadh. 237 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,440 King Faisal of Saudi Arabia. 238 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:08,160 Sadat and a third man. [camera clicks] 239 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,960 I was very suspicious when Zeira did not mention 240 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:17,080 the name of the third man in a chapter 241 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:21,480 where it's all about the spy. And you ask yourself 242 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:23,160 "Why is it missing?" 243 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:24,759 TOMMY: So, the fact that it was missing... 244 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:26,439 DR. BREGMAN: Yeah, exactly. The fact that there was 245 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:28,159 a missing piece of information... DR. BREGMAN: It was... 246 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,400 It was an editing thing, you see? 247 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:32,160 "Why is it missing?" TOMMY: Mm. 248 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:34,440 DR. BREGMAN: So, maybe the name is not mentioned 249 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:36,640 because someone is trying to hide the name. 250 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:41,840 But there is a reference, Robinson, page 136. 251 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:52,400 136. And here is the third man, Dr Ashraf Marwan. 252 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:58,400 When I saw it all my red lights started flashing. 253 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:03,560 My gut was telling me 254 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,960 that his name was significant, Ashraf Marwan. 255 00:19:08,360 --> 00:19:10,520 It was an educated guess. 256 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,360 [motorbike accelerating] 257 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,120 And I sent a fax to Zeira, 258 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:24,120 hoping that he would react and confirm the name. 259 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:29,240 I took a punt, but his reply was, 260 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:31,880 "I will not reveal." 261 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:36,640 And this was a setback. 262 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:40,880 [camera whirring] 263 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,640 But I wonder if there was something 264 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:47,480 in the fact Zeira did not deny, 265 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,480 so I thought that maybe I am on the right track. 266 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:00,839 MALE REPORTER: ...and refused to negotiate 267 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:02,280 until they were removed. 268 00:20:02,360 --> 00:20:04,880 This was the position when the Arab world was dealt a blow 269 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,440 from which it's still reeling. [men chanting] 270 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,639 MALE REPORTER 2: Now the explosive situation in the Middle East 271 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:10,920 has been further complicated 272 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,080 by the unexpected death of Egypt's President Nasser. 273 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,280 This man, Anwar Sadat, took over as president-elect. 274 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:23,240 [speaking Arabic] I swear by Almighty God to uphold... 275 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,120 [applause] 276 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,360 AMOS GILBOA: The big bosses under the Nasser regime... 277 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:32,280 they were... 278 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,920 unsatisfied with Sadat. 279 00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:39,560 [indistinct chatter] There was a kind of rebellion... 280 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:41,680 [film camera whirring] 281 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:43,760 ...and... 282 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,640 Ashraf was very cunning, smart. 283 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:53,000 Somehow Marwan got his hands on an archive... 284 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:55,720 and turned it over to Sadat, 285 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,440 and Sadat used some of the information in that archive 286 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:01,400 to put his enemies on trial. 287 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,360 [speaking Arabic] Something personal? Or of a public nature? 288 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:12,479 [speaking Arabic] The truth is in the court's hands. 289 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:13,920 DR. KANDIL: It was very consequential 290 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,400 in Marwan's future career to prove to Sadat 291 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,360 that his loyalty to him can come at a price 292 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:23,280 of stabbing in the back Nasser's closest aids. 293 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,920 [speaking Arabic] We must make it clear to the public. 294 00:21:26,360 --> 00:21:28,240 [arguing indistinctly] 295 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:34,440 AMOS GILBOA: And Sadat rewarded him. He appointed Ashraf to be... the secretary of the Presidential Office. 296 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:41,080 [plane decelerating] 297 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,360 [indistinct chatter] 298 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,160 DR. KANDIL: He was part of Sadat's inner circle. 299 00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:51,040 [indistinct chatter] [camera clicks] 300 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,640 ABDALLAH HAMOUDA: At the time, he was not 30 yet, 301 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:59,680 and that is the youngest man in the job ever. 302 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:07,480 But knowing Ashraf Marwan, every step is calculated 303 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,040 to build for what comes after. 304 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:23,240 DR. BREGMAN: I was pretty sure Ashraf Marwan was the spy, 305 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,480 but I needed a conformation. 306 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:33,920 So, I thought that perhaps the editor of Zeira's book, 307 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:39,200 Rami Tali, could help with the name of this spy. 308 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:41,000 [car horns honking] 309 00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:45,160 Obviously, the editor discussed the matter with Zeira, 310 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:47,240 so I devised a plan. 311 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,520 I then took a flight to Tel Aviv. 312 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:56,440 [indistinct chatter] 313 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,640 RAMI TALI: Ronnie Bregman, he wanted to make sure 314 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,400 that he has the right name. 315 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:05,680 I knew the name, 316 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:08,360 but I told him, "Ronnie, 317 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:13,800 I don't know the name, but if I knew it I would not tell you." 318 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,040 "I don't know the name," "Don't make me..." 319 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,000 This was how it was done. 320 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:24,080 Ten minutes into the conversation when he was warmed up, 321 00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:29,960 but not yet tired of me, I looked him straight in the eye. 322 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:31,600 And Ronnie said... 323 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,520 "I know the name of the super spy." 324 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,200 And I said, "Good for you," and he said... 325 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,360 Ashraf Marwan was the super spy. 326 00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:46,560 I was taken aback. 327 00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:50,960 His response was unmistakable. 328 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,440 As far as I remember, I did not acknowledge it. 329 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,560 He looked away and smiled. 330 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:00,040 Bingo. 331 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:01,800 How do you say the English saying? 332 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,480 That butter would not melt in my mouth. 333 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,520 Butter very much melts in my mouth. 334 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,680 So, uh, when he approached me with the name... 335 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:13,280 [muttering indistinctly] Yeah, 336 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,800 it was some kind of an acknowledgment. 337 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,400 DR. BREGMAN: I returned to London a happy man. 338 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:25,520 I had the name. 339 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,760 I was delighted, really. 340 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:30,840 Celebrating. 341 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,720 But I had to confirm that he was a double agent. 342 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,240 TOMMY: Okay, so how did the Mossad get involved with Ashraf Marwan? 343 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:47,880 He was a walk-in. 344 00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:52,160 [laughs] 345 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:53,840 [car horns honking] 346 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,000 YOSSI MELMAN: One day in London, 347 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,560 he decided to call the Israeli embassy. 348 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,760 This is how moments in history are made. 349 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:16,560 They are made out of pure luck, because when he called the embassy, 350 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,960 luckily enough, the head of Mossad stations in Europe, 351 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,880 Shmuel Goren, was visiting the station. 352 00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:30,640 [speaking Hebrew] I was the head of Mossad in Europe. 353 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:33,480 Somebody called. 354 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,600 As soon as I heard the name, it immediately rang a bell, 355 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,840 but I said, "No, it cannot be 356 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:41,600 that someone like him would come to us.” 357 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,400 TOMMY: When recruiting a new agent, 358 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,640 what are the risks to you, to the Mossad? 359 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:53,440 To the Mossad, first that he might be a double agent. 360 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,720 Number two, he's a liar. 361 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,200 And number three is that he can surrender you, 362 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,040 which is very dangerous. 363 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,080 But being an intelligence officer, if you are not... 364 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:10,000 suspicious as part of your culture and character, 365 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:14,280 you stand a fair chance not to be a successful intelligence officer. 366 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:17,640 And in the case of walk-ins, 367 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,560 it is even more important to be suspicious. 368 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:31,160 But he said, "The son-in-law of the Egyptian president is a walk-in? 369 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,000 We cannot miss that opportunity." 370 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:38,760 SHMUEL GOREN: It was a gamble, 371 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,480 because the difference in cases like these... 372 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,720 is between receiving the Medal of Honor or facing disgrace. 373 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,080 So, we improvised... 374 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,720 against the official protocol. 375 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,120 And we scheduled the meeting at the hotel that same day. 376 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,400 The conversation was short. 377 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:11,000 He gave us authentic minutes from meetings in Moscow... 378 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,960 with the most high-ranking Russian officials 379 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:19,640 and the most high-ranking Egyptian officials. 380 00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:24,680 To be a fly on the wall in these kinds of meetings is the dream of any intelligence agent. 381 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:41,520 My task was to go over the material he provided, 382 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,480 and we couldn't find anything 383 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,520 which gave us any doubt about his credibility. 384 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,000 TOMMY: Okay, so what exactly did you do to be certain? 385 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,640 Listen, there's no point to... 386 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,320 to... get into all the details, but... 387 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:01,360 there was no one, 388 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:06,360 or no one case, where anybody said, explicitly, 389 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,880 in a very determined way, that he was not authentic. 390 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,120 TOMMY: Why would Marwan, now that Nasser was gone, 391 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,359 and his ambition was being fulfilled, he was the right-hand man 392 00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:18,360 of the president... Yeah. 393 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,160 Why would he want to sell secrets to Israel? 394 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:23,960 Why did he do it? 395 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,680 To feel important, maybe to take revenge 396 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:33,440 on his father-in-law, and thirdly, financial reward. 397 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:41,240 All in all, the Mossad paid him $1 million in the '70s, early '70s. 398 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,480 It's a huge amount of money. 399 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:44,560 [cameras clicking] 400 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:45,960 TOMMY: Everything the Israelis say 401 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,280 suggests it was resentment towards Nasser, 402 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,720 hubris, money... And that doesn't add up to me. 403 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:56,560 You have to look at the Ashraf Marwan angle. 404 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,000 "I am a big shot." 405 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,560 TOMMY: How did Marwan spying for you work exactly? 406 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:10,200 [cameras clicking] 407 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:12,800 DAVID ARBEL: He accompanied Sadat... 408 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,640 to meetings with leaders. 409 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,360 [film camera whirring] 410 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:22,680 [camera clicks] [laughter] 411 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:28,240 He listened and was able to give us the inside information. 412 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,240 DR. BREGMAN: When the Mossad met with Marwan, 413 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,320 the meeting, it take place in London. 414 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,880 Marwan would provide his documents. 415 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:45,360 [intercom buzzes] 416 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,520 He would get his money, then he would leave first... 417 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,200 and the Israeli will leave after him. What was so valuable about the information he gave you? 418 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:05,960 The most important pieces of information which Ashraf Marwan gave Israel... 419 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:11,160 He brought the order of battle of the Egyptian Army. 420 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:16,520 It means that Israel would know how Egypt were going to strike. 421 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,240 And they would attack us only if 422 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,320 they have enough air cover provided by the Russians. 423 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,840 SHMUEL GOREN: [speaking Hebrew] It is very rare material. 424 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,800 It was, in my opinion, an earthquake. 425 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:32,320 It was... 426 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:37,280 beautiful. 427 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:39,920 Beautiful. Really. 428 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:41,480 [indistinct chatter] 429 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,760 RAJEEV SYAL: I tried to piece together what happened to Ashraf Marwan. 430 00:30:58,120 --> 00:30:59,160 Was it murder? 431 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:03,160 Was it suicide? 432 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,240 It is very interesting to be here. 433 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:30,320 He was on this balcony here and he landed in these bushes. 434 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,720 The family had always said that the trajectory of his fall 435 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,800 was such that he fell away from the building to such an extent that he must have been thrown. 436 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:46,800 You can only really see it when you're in the garden. 437 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,480 You can start to see why the family were arguing 438 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,600 it was bizarre 439 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:57,920 that he landed several feet out into these bushes. 440 00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:03,120 And when I spoke to Ashraf Marwan's wife, 441 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:07,840 Mona, she thought that he may have been murdered by the Israelis. 442 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,680 Based on this information, it was difficult to believe 443 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,440 that he had just fallen out as part of an accident. 444 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,400 DR. BREGMAN: I gathered a huge amount of data during my research. 445 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,840 This is Eli Zeira when he was young. 446 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,720 He was a good-looking man and very clever. 447 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:38,840 Very clever. 448 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:44,240 I had the head of Israeli Military Intelligence telling me 449 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,760 this spy was a double agent. 450 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:51,120 This could only make Israel intelligence look bad, 451 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,240 so I had to take notice of it. 452 00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:01,200 And then I uncovered something big behind the meetings in London. 453 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:02,920 Marwan was reckless, 454 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,440 he would just do stupid things, take chances. 455 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:07,440 [dial tone] 456 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,760 He would phone the Israelis, the embassy, directly. 457 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:17,200 Ignoring the careful system whereby you should phone them indirectly 458 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,560 using a third party, a lady in London. 459 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:22,600 Of course, all of the lines 460 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:27,160 could have been taped by other agencies, by the MI6. 461 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,000 And he would arrive in meetings 462 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,880 driving the car of the Egyptian Embassy in London. 463 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:42,000 The fact that Marwan was so confident to do such things 464 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:46,360 in the open perhaps points to the fact that he knew 465 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,720 that it's okay, he was a double agent 466 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,360 and the Egyptians will accept it. 467 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:58,880 So, my conclusion is that General Eli Zeira was correct. 468 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,280 The spy was a double agent. 469 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,000 TOMMY: Ronnie, I've spoken to the Mossad 470 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,920 and what they are telling me is pretty compelling. 471 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,840 DR. BREGMAN: I think that Ashraf Marwan 472 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:19,280 was not the person the Israelis thought he was. 473 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:21,200 [button clicks on camera] 474 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,320 [tape whirs] 475 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:53,600 TOMMY: Okay for sound? 476 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:55,320 Ready? 477 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:56,600 Yeah. 478 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,560 TOMMY: Abdallah, Israel believe Ashraf gave them everything. 479 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:02,640 Good for them. 480 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:08,520 Ashraf Marwan, I believe that he served Egypt well. 481 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,640 He did it under instructions from Sadat, 482 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,480 he did not do it out of his own free will. 483 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:22,680 Albeit, he was prepared to play the dangerous game. 484 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:33,920 When Sadat became president of Egypt, his first priority 485 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:39,840 was to get back the lands Egypt lost in 1967. 486 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,440 [praying in Arabic] 487 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:47,840 ABDALLAH HAMOUDA: It was a holistic movement within the country, 488 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:53,120 everyone coming together for one objective, 489 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:59,160 launching a war, regaining the Sinai, revitalizing the Arab world, 490 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:04,080 and creating a new spirit for the future. 491 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,320 [imam preaching in Arabic] 492 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,800 But knowing that the Israelis had 493 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,680 weapons from the United States and western countries, 494 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,440 it had to have some cunning in the plan. 495 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,400 [imam singing] 496 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:27,680 And Sadat has played this in the most perfect way. 497 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:29,600 [indistinct chatter] 498 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,040 Sadat wanted a very convincing agent 499 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,880 to feed information to the Israelis. 500 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:38,080 And... 501 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,880 Ashraf Marwan was the best actor to play the part. 502 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,600 [imam preaching in Arabic] 503 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:46,880 [indistinct chatter] 504 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:53,400 Everything was, like, stage-managed to the highest possible standard. 505 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:55,400 [indistinct chatter] 506 00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:00,520 They studied very well the Israeli mentality 507 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,360 to create the image to fool the Israelis. 508 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:09,000 And he did not go to them on his knees. 509 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,600 He went to them full of himself. 510 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,080 The Ashraf Marwan angle... 511 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,920 a playboy, fun-loving with a sense of pride. 512 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,360 "I am a big shot." 513 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,600 And he was very successful in convincing them 514 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,840 that he is serious about working for them. 515 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:37,360 Ashraf Marwan supplied the Israelis with the Egyptian preparations for the war, 516 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:39,800 but not complete, 517 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:45,040 but the Israelis were very happy with what he gave them. 518 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,280 So, he was accepted. [Shmuel Goren speaking Hebrew] The information we got 519 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,200 comes along once in a hundred years. 520 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:59,040 And they call him the... "the agent of the century." 521 00:38:04,720 --> 00:38:07,880 All under instructions from Sadat. 522 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:12,840 TOMMY: There's this double agent theory 523 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:14,280 and I would like your opinion. 524 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:16,679 [speaking Hebrew] No other country in the world 525 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,720 would allow this kind of material to fall into the hands of their enemies. 526 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:21,920 He's a traitor. 527 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,920 He's just a simple traitor. 528 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:26,120 That's it. 529 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:29,440 TOMMY: How did the information Marwan gave you 530 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:30,720 influence your thinking? 531 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:32,200 [cameras clicking] 532 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:36,520 SHABTAI SHAVIT: Marwan, he reported one of the conditions for going to war... 533 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,000 was long-range bombers. 534 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:45,320 And the Russians, they hesitated to provide 535 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,160 the Egyptians deep bombing capabilities. 536 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,720 So, the Israeli evaluators of the intelligence 537 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,880 were in the notion that they are not going to fight us. 538 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:02,360 The underlying message of all the information 539 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:08,480 given by Marwan was that Egypt will not attack 540 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,800 before she got certain weapons. 541 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,520 [indistinct chatter] 542 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,440 But what the Israelis didn't know... 543 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:24,200 was that Sadat decided to go to war against them... 544 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:26,680 even without the weapons. 545 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,560 What Sadat needed was to surprise the Israelis, 546 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,120 to catch them unprepared. 547 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:41,720 The key issue was how to surprise the Israelis. 548 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,600 And Egypt felt the right time 549 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,720 is to attack them on Yom Kippur, 550 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,640 which is a holy day in Israel, 551 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,320 when the Israelis don't listen to the radio, 552 00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,000 television is off. 553 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:03,800 They are just insulated in the synagogues and in the houses. 554 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:06,680 [birds tweeting] 555 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:15,120 ABDALLAH HAMOUDA: On the 6th of October, 1973, 556 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:21,880 the Egyptian units on the ground were told, "Now!" 557 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:24,120 [explosions, water crashing] 558 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,000 DR. BREGMAN: 100,000 Egyptian troops 559 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,320 start crossing the Suez Canal. 560 00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:34,600 [speaking Arabic] Shoot! 561 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:40,160 Igniting their spirit and mind and a will to win. 562 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,240 [shouting indistinctly, cheering] 563 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:44,679 DR. BREGMAN: On the other side, 564 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,800 there are only 452 Israeli soldiers. [Gunfire] 565 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:05,640 The Israelis are caught unprepared, off-balanced. 566 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,880 [helicopter flying overhead] MALE REPORTER: It did succeed in crushing the myth 567 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:13,400 of Israel's invincibility, and the first Israeli surrenders 568 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,160 were moments of rare triumph for the Egyptian commanders. 569 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,840 The Egyptian surprise was very successful. 570 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,320 [indistinct chatter] [grunts] 571 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:27,320 CAMERAMAN: [speaking Arabic] Just like that... 572 00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:37,080 [engine accelerating] 573 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:40,560 [car horns blaring] 574 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,840 The synagogue was full of people all around here. 575 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:54,960 We started seeing traffic on the streets. 576 00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:56,800 The army came. 577 00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:01,440 People were simply taken onto the army vehicles. 578 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,520 I can tell you, it was all chaos. 579 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:13,720 [knuckles crack] 580 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:15,720 [exhales] 581 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,000 I was mobilized, recruited... 582 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,240 then I headed to Sinai. 583 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,600 We believed that the Israeli army is invincible 584 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,320 and the Arabs are inferior, 585 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,080 and that it would be a stroll in the park, 586 00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:37,600 but we realized that, actually, it's not a joke. 587 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,480 [tank gun fires] 588 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:41,680 [tank tracks squeaking] 589 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:45,200 [gun turret whirring] 590 00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,400 [fighter jets soaring] 591 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,080 [mounted gun firing] [heavy artillery firing] 592 00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:55,720 [man panting] 593 00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,840 We were bombarded from the air, 594 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,520 we were bombarded from the land. 595 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:05,320 [automatic gunfire] 596 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,240 [gun turret whirring] 597 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:09,720 [screaming] 598 00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:14,560 We fought almost face-to-face with Egyptian soldiers. 599 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:18,120 They were good fighters. 600 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:24,440 I saw people dying around me. I was frightened all the time. 601 00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:26,000 You think that this is the end. 602 00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,680 AMOS GILBOA: They took five kilometers of Sinai, 603 00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,120 and they dug in, 604 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,040 and they rebuffed everything. 605 00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,960 DAVID ARBEL: And actually, our defense minister, Dayan, 606 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,520 came out on television and talked to the nation, 607 00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:09,120 and explained to us that the situation is bad indeed. 608 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:11,680 [speaking Hebrew] The war is difficult. 609 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:17,560 Very harsh collisions, on the ground and in the sky. 610 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,240 He looked down and said... 611 00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,560 [speaking Hebrew] And we are fighting for our lives. 612 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:30,840 Us, fighting for our life? We were the heroes in 1967. 613 00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:32,480 What happened now? 614 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:37,200 So, him on television was a difficult moment in Israel. 615 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,800 [soldiers chanting in Arabic] 616 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:47,080 ABDALLAH HOMOUDA: When the war was over... 617 00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:48,680 [crowd cheering] 618 00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,680 ...the Egyptian people were extremely happy. 619 00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,240 [applause] [cameras clicking] 620 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,560 [cheering] 621 00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:01,240 Can I tell you something which not many people know? 622 00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,720 During the 1973 war days, 623 00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:09,000 the rate of crime dwindled to zero. 624 00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:10,960 There was no crime. [cheering] 625 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:15,400 No of fence at all, everyone... united with everyone. 626 00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:17,320 The one goal they had was 627 00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,720 to regain their sense of pride and dignity. 628 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,040 [cheering] 629 00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:31,800 Ashraf Marwan... 630 00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:32,920 [camera clicks] 631 00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:38,160 ...he enabled Egypt to gain the surprise advantage. 632 00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,840 TOMMY: The Egyptians are adamant they got the jump on you in '73, 633 00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:49,160 because Ashraf Marwan misled you. 634 00:45:49,240 --> 00:45:53,320 But it's just the opposite, he didn't... they didn't surprise us. 635 00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:55,880 They gave us an early alert. 636 00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:58,000 [button clicks on camera] 637 00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:00,520 [tape whirring, button clicks] 638 00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:10,440 SHABTAI SHAVIT: Before the war... Ashraf Marwan, 639 00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:14,600 he asked for a meeting, 640 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:18,920 gave the code word: "chemicals." 641 00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,120 And he told him, "Tomorrow, I'll be in London. 642 00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:25,480 I want Zvika Zamir, 643 00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,680 the director of the Mossad, to come." 644 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,680 [Big Ben chiming] The meeting took place at about 645 00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,000 ten o'clock p.m. 646 00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:49,520 Zvika sat scribbling the essence of the story. 647 00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:53,160 YOSSI MELMAN: Ashraf Marwan, he said, 648 00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:55,680 "Tomorrow the war would be at sunset." 649 00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:58,440 SHABTAI SHAVIT: Zvika, 650 00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:02,560 he sent the early warning to his personal assistant. 651 00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:06,600 It was disseminated to the... [intercom buzzing] 652 00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,200 ...director of Military Intelligence. 653 00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:12,680 AMOS GALBOA: We could prepare ourselves... 654 00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:15,240 for the attack. 655 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,560 Ashraf, he gave the plan! 656 00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:21,120 [chuckles] 657 00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:24,480 [button clicks on camera] 658 00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:26,320 TOMMY: Wait a second... 659 00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:32,560 Ashraf said the war would start at sunset, and yet the surprise attack was at two... 660 00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:34,000 Wasn't that misleading? 661 00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:36,160 [stutters] I'll answer it! 662 00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,920 See, I saw the full report. 663 00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:42,080 [tape whirring] 664 00:47:42,240 --> 00:47:43,240 [button clicks on camera] 665 00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:45,520 The Syrians, 666 00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,720 they wanted the attack to be in the morning. 667 00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:51,440 [indistinct chatter] 668 00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:55,280 On October the 2nd, the Egyptian minister of war 669 00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:56,960 reached a compromise. 670 00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:58,320 "Okay... 671 00:47:58,480 --> 00:47:59,920 not sunset, 672 00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:04,960 ten minutes to two o'clock, afternoon." 673 00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:10,640 Marwan, he didn't know about the change. 674 00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:14,680 Because he was not in Egypt. He went on a mission. 675 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:21,920 DR. BREGMAN: There are those who say that Marwan did not know 676 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,440 that war starts four hours earlier. 677 00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:29,640 I don't buy it, I think that he was just too close... 678 00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:31,480 [tape whirring, button clicks] 679 00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:35,000 ...to the leadership not to know such facts. 680 00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:36,280 [button clicks] 681 00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:40,680 The fact that he said that it will start at sunset 682 00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:46,680 was the climax of him misleading the Mossad and Israel. 683 00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:51,600 But Mossad agents have a very clear motivation 684 00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:53,600 to tell the world that he was genuine. 685 00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:54,880 [chuckles] 686 00:48:56,200 --> 00:49:00,880 So, I was convinced Ashraf Marwan misled the Israelis. 687 00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:02,440 [button clicks on camera] 688 00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:04,480 Now I wanted to write a book about him... 689 00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:10,040 but without the confirmation I couldn't just blame someone 690 00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,880 of being a spy or a double agent. 691 00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:17,160 And they wanted to hear it from Ashraf. 692 00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:20,360 I wanted to hear the story from him. 693 00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:26,080 So, I published A History of Israel. 694 00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:32,320 I wanted to tease Ashraf out so I wrote in the book, 695 00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:35,200 without mentioning his name, that he was 696 00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:39,800 a close family member of President Nasser 697 00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:45,520 and that the Israelis used to refer to him as "the Son-in-Law." 698 00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,280 By the way, the Israelis never called him "the Son-in-Law," 699 00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:55,880 this was my invention in order for him to react. 700 00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:02,240 I sent him the book with a dedication to Ashraf Marwan, 701 00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:04,320 a hero of Egypt, 702 00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:08,840 but no response. 703 00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,720 This is, by the way, Tommy, a very boring book... 704 00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:16,280 except for this story. [Chuckles] 705 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:17,800 Yeah. 706 00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:19,960 Then, a breakthrough. 707 00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:27,040 An Egyptian journalist contacted Ashraf Marwan asking him, 708 00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:31,040 "Are you the person at the heart of Bregman's story?" 709 00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:33,760 To which he responded, 710 00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:38,640 "Bregman's book is a stupid detective story." 711 00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:41,280 In a... 712 00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:46,880 childish sort of way, I was upset. 713 00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:52,520 So, when another Egyptian journalist contacted me... 714 00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:58,600 I confirmed, Ashraf Marwan, he was the Son-in-Law. 715 00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:03,280 A perfect spy, an Egyptian national hero... 716 00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:07,600 for misleading Israel, and they should name 717 00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,160 a street after him in Cairo. 718 00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,080 [birds tweeting] 719 00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:19,120 I was obsessed with it. 720 00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:23,720 And if you have something so important... 721 00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:25,440 [indistinct chatter] 722 00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:28,000 ...and you don't tell your wife... 723 00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:30,160 [music playing on stereo] [laughter] 724 00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:35,320 ...I'm sure it does have an impact on the relationship. 725 00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:36,520 FAMILY MEMBERS: ...two, one! 726 00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:45,720 A few weeks later I picked up a copy of El a Ram il a Rabi. 727 00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:48,360 Oh, that's the interview. 728 00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,240 "A perfect spy and a national hero... 729 00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:54,680 Ashraf Marwan" 730 00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:59,880 And it caused a huge stir in the Middle East. 731 00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:03,760 "The agent is exposed." 732 00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:09,440 I saw my picture in the book and my heart sank. 733 00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:11,440 It was quite shocking for me. 734 00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:17,000 I wondered what would be the reaction of Marwan, 735 00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:18,720 of the Egyptians, of the Mossad. 736 00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:20,880 It was very worrying. 737 00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:32,560 [phone ringing] 738 00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:37,280 The next day, I'm in the garden. [phone continues ringing] 739 00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:42,040 Through the window, I can see my wife banging. 740 00:52:43,720 --> 00:52:45,520 "You have a telephone call..." 741 00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:48,200 I pick up the phone, 742 00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:51,320 and someone says, "How are you?" 743 00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:54,200 It's an Arabic accent. 744 00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:56,440 "And who are you?" I ask. 745 00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:01,080 "I am the person you've written about." 746 00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:06,120 I'm taken aback. 747 00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:11,760 He says, "We should meet up." 748 00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:37,960 I was about to meet up with one of the greatest spies 749 00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:39,600 in modern history. 750 00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:42,920 Quite a dangerous exercise. 751 00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:47,400 So, I was concerned. 752 00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:54,080 I took some precautions, I left a message to my wife saying, 753 00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:56,280 "I am meeting Ashraf Marwan." 754 00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:04,360 And I walked to the Intercontinental Hotel, 755 00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:07,320 looking back from time-to-time. 756 00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:20,080 He was already there. 757 00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:23,240 I've never seen him before, and I was quite surprised 758 00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:25,040 to see how tall he was, 759 00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:29,640 well-dressed with a scarf, 760 00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:34,040 a red scarf, pacing up and down. 761 00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:37,880 And although we never met before, 762 00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:40,280 we immediately recognized each other. 763 00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:43,480 "How are you?" I ask. 764 00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:47,560 "I'm ill," he says. "I just had a few operations." 765 00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:49,000 We ordered coffees, 766 00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:54,440 and when the coffee did not come to our table, 767 00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:58,760 he got up and went and fetched it for us, 768 00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:00,280 which was a big mistake. 769 00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:02,360 He could have put something inside, 770 00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:04,440 this was my only mistake in the meeting. 771 00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:10,200 I said to him I had one big question I wanted to ask him. 772 00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:17,640 Why did you say sunset when the war started at 2:00 p.m.? 773 00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:23,440 He smiled and said, "What are a few hours between us?" 774 00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:26,240 [camera clicks] Bingo! 775 00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:27,880 [Dr. Bregman laughs] 776 00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:31,720 This was a real admission that he was misleading Israel. 777 00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:37,800 But then he added that he is concerned about his safety... 778 00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:41,040 [man speaking indistinctly over radio] 779 00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:43,040 ...and it was left at that. 780 00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:51,720 It was amazing, and I was very happy to be alive. 781 00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:02,080 General Eli Zeira was correct, 782 00:56:02,240 --> 00:56:06,320 the mysterious spy who worked for Israel was a double agent. 783 00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:08,240 This is bullshit! 784 00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:09,919 Well, he's wrong! TOMMY: Tell me what you really... 785 00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:11,240 Tell me what you really think! 786 00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:14,120 I think Ronnie is wrong. 787 00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:19,000 What Eli Zeira was doing was spreading fake news 788 00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:21,600 four decades before Trump came to power, 789 00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:23,200 and invented that term. 790 00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:26,400 [button clicks on camera, tape whirs] 791 00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:27,520 [button clicks] 792 00:56:28,720 --> 00:56:31,360 MALE REPORTER: This was the day when Israel mourned her dead, 793 00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:35,120 the latest casualty FIGURES: 1,854 killed. 794 00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:39,800 The impact of the surprise was, for me, 795 00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:44,200 a thing that haunts me to this day. 796 00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,160 Certainly, I have anger. 797 00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:50,160 If we have someone like Marwan, 798 00:56:50,240 --> 00:56:56,040 who told us and warned us a day before to prepare the army, 799 00:56:56,680 --> 00:57:00,320 our intelligence really fucked up. 800 00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:09,920 Of course, I'm angry. Very much so. 801 00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:14,280 [crowd clamoring] 802 00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,880 [indistinct shouting] 803 00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:35,240 RAMI TALI: After the war, 804 00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:38,240 there was an inquiry committee 805 00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:42,200 for the failure of the military intelligence. 806 00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:57,040 DAVID ARBEL: It was the responsibility 807 00:57:57,240 --> 00:57:59,320 of the head of the Military Intelligence, 808 00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:04,200 General Zeira, to give the alert, and he did not. 809 00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:07,640 Eli Zeira, when he was asked, 810 00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:11,520 "Why you didn't do anything 811 00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:14,520 with such tremendous early warning?" 812 00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:20,160 he say, "I didn't want to bother the chief of staff, he was busy." 813 00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:21,240 Really? 814 00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:26,120 RAMI TALI: Because Eli Zeira, he thought they would attack us 815 00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:30,480 only if they have enough air cover provided by the Russians, 816 00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:34,680 and the air cover is not yet ready. [Cameras clicking] 817 00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:38,360 Eli Zeira didn't believe Ashraf Marwan's warnings. 818 00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:55,320 The inquiry committee, 819 00:58:57,320 --> 00:58:59,600 they concluded Eli Zeira... [camera clicks] 820 00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:05,200 ...bore the main responsibility for the failure in the war. 821 00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:10,200 Eli Zeira was ousted from active service. 822 00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:18,800 And he left the country. He went with his family to the US. 823 00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:25,240 About 13 years after the war, Eli published his book. 824 00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:30,160 He came to the conclusion that Marwan 825 00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:36,880 was a double agent and his real employers were the Egyptians and not the Israelis. 826 00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:38,720 AMOS GILBOA: Eli Zeira, 827 00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:41,960 he want to find a scapegoat. [indistinct chatter] 828 00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:48,680 All the stories about the double agent, 829 00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:51,120 it stems from Eli Zeira. 830 00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:55,200 He want to justify himself. 831 00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:58,520 I am furious about him. [sighs] 832 01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:02,680 [claps palms against thighs] What can I do? 833 01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:26,840 TOMMY: I actually spoke to Zeira yesterday. Zeira said, "All that is facts." [Shabtai Shavit muttering] 834 01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:30,280 So? 835 01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:33,440 What do you want to prove? 836 01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:36,480 I'll, uh... I'll, uh... I'll throw it away. 837 01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:40,880 TOMMY: He said, "On October 4th, at early afternoon, the Soviets started..." 838 01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:42,000 Listen... 839 01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:46,400 Can you stop here? I'll tell you... 840 01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:47,720 off... 841 01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:53,720 [indistinct chatter] 842 01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:05,120 YOSSI MELMAN: When Zeira wanted to rehabilitate himself, 843 01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:09,160 he started talking to journalists, writers, 844 01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:11,200 and he gave them some hints. 845 01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:14,600 One day he asked me for a meeting. 846 01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:20,360 He tried to feed me also with this false bullshit, 847 01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:22,440 uh, of double agent. 848 01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:27,200 I listened to him and I told him, "Eli, you are wrong. 849 01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:29,240 You are feeding false information 850 01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:32,600 just for your pride, hubris, ego, whatever," 851 01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:36,000 and I didn't write the story because I have more integrity. 852 01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:38,520 But why kill a good story with the facts? 853 01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:43,240 And Ronnie Bregman believed Eli Zeira... 854 01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:49,800 published the name in El a Ran and spread he was a double agent. 855 01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:05,000 RAJEEV SYAL: About a month after the murder... 856 01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:09,080 there was a major development. 857 01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:14,480 There were three witnesses, 858 01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:19,560 and they were sitting in a room which overlooked the balcony, 859 01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:22,440 just 20 yards from his home. 860 01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:43,080 So, I presume witness Joseph Rapasi would have been sitting here, 861 01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:46,280 because he had the direct view of the balcony. 862 01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:54,040 He saw from the corner of his eye something fall 863 01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:58,240 but they then rushed over to the window, 864 01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:02,560 looked down and could see Ashraf Marwan's body. 865 01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:08,840 And it was then that he saw two shadowy figures, 866 01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:13,040 Middle Eastern appearance looking over the balcony. 867 01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:18,880 I flew to Hungary and met Rapasi in Budapest, 868 01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:23,760 and he did confirm to me that that was his story, 869 01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:26,320 which, of course, deepened the mystery. 870 01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:30,040 At the time, it was a major development, 871 01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:32,560 because it looked as if it could be, 872 01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:34,680 if they were people of Middle Eastern appearance, 873 01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:38,480 maybe they could be Egyptian secret services, 874 01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:43,920 and it did fuel speculation about who had possibly killed him. 875 01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:55,760 After the meeting in the Intercontinental Hotel in London, 876 01:03:56,840 --> 01:04:01,240 Ashraf, he would phone from time to time. 877 01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:05,600 I think he was... lonely. 878 01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:09,320 He could not have discussed it with Mona, his wife, 879 01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:12,040 he could not have discussed his spy games 880 01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:17,080 with his kids or friends, so, ironically, he had me, 881 01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:21,160 the person who exposed him in the first place. 882 01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:27,160 Ashraf had strange habits. 883 01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:30,400 He would phone me and keep quiet... [rustling against microphone] 884 01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:35,120 ...listening to my voice at the other end of the line, 885 01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:37,160 putting down the phone, 886 01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:41,920 ring again and start a conversation. 887 01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:50,200 The more Ashraf asked personal questions about family and kids, 888 01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:54,960 the more concerned I became for him. 889 01:04:55,560 --> 01:05:00,960 Because as long as he was the Son-in-Law with no face, 890 01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:05,880 I did not care about him as a human being. 891 01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:09,120 But now I had a relationship with him, 892 01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:13,000 I knew about his operations, about the family, about the kids, 893 01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:19,320 that I became very worried that something might happen to him, 894 01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:23,840 that perhaps the Egyptians would not buy into my story 895 01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:26,280 of him being their perfect spy, 896 01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:30,560 the double agent, and they would try to hurt him, 897 01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:36,360 or perhaps the Mossad might do a stupid thing. 898 01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:45,320 I spent sleepless nights concerned about what could happen. 899 01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:51,680 I thought that if anything happened to him it would be on my conscience, 900 01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:59,520 and ironically, from trying to unmask this super spy, 901 01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:03,600 I started looking for ways to protect him. 902 01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:09,400 Anything which was said about him, to report to him, 903 01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:12,240 so he could take precautions. 904 01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:18,440 All my work, my lectures, my writing, my family, all was put aside. 905 01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:21,480 He became the first priority. 906 01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:26,440 By that time, I was so worried 907 01:06:26,520 --> 01:06:32,160 that something would happen to him that I would just look for 908 01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:36,640 anything written about him, and he would get the articles and usually just phone back and ask a few questions, 909 01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:41,320 because most of them were in Hebrew. 910 01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:47,360 On one occasion something was published in Israel, 911 01:06:47,640 --> 01:06:52,920 the article is about Ashraf Marwan shaking hands 912 01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:55,960 with Egypt's President Mubarak. 913 01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:57,760 And the title is, 914 01:06:57,880 --> 01:07:03,480 "The man... There is Mossad's man in Cairo." 915 01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:08,080 "And why did Mubarak hug the person 916 01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:13,000 who is regarded as the best Mossad agent in Egypt?" 917 01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:17,600 I thought the Egyptians might want to have revenge. 918 01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:21,960 I sent it to Ashraf, and when he got it, 919 01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:24,920 he phoned me from a taxi... 920 01:07:28,080 --> 01:07:31,040 and he just shouted and actually cried. 921 01:07:31,160 --> 01:07:33,160 “Why are they doing it to me? 922 01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:37,880 They, the Mossad, is trying to drive a wedge 923 01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:42,560 between me and Mubarak, and this is their revenge 924 01:07:42,640 --> 01:07:44,840 for me misleading them.” 925 01:07:45,800 --> 01:07:51,040 He was so upset that even I became very upset. 926 01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:54,720 TOMMY: Do you think he was upset because Israel's story was a lie? 927 01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:57,080 DR. BREGMAN: Yes. And then he said, 928 01:07:57,280 --> 01:07:59,360 "There was no one spy, 929 01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:04,240 we were a group of 40 people whose task it was 930 01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:07,320 to feed the Israelis." [indistinct chatter] 931 01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:11,760 "There was no single double agent. There was Egypt." 932 01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:28,200 He told me about the medals he received from Sadat. 933 01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:42,640 Wow. It was huge. I couldn't believe it. 934 01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:49,920 But he was scared. 935 01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:54,480 He told me he feared for his life, and I just realized 936 01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:59,200 what a stupid thing it was to unmask a living spy. 937 01:09:00,600 --> 01:09:03,040 TOMMY: But Ronnie, you told me that the higher value 938 01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:06,400 of unmasking Marwan was about staying true to history, 939 01:09:06,480 --> 01:09:09,480 and having an accurate record of what happened. 940 01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:15,560 DR. BREGMAN: The truth of the matter... when I unmasked Marwan, 941 01:09:16,440 --> 01:09:18,120 I couldn't care less about history, 942 01:09:18,480 --> 01:09:23,280 I just cared about a huge scoop that I had. 943 01:09:23,480 --> 01:09:25,760 [birds tweeting] 944 01:09:28,400 --> 01:09:33,000 He wanted, as he put it, the story to die. 945 01:09:33,440 --> 01:09:36,880 [theme music playing] 946 01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:42,920 Let's open up another chapter of this conversation 947 01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:44,840 that will be published. 948 01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:48,120 Ashraf Marwan, Dr Ashraf Marwan... 949 01:09:48,240 --> 01:09:50,840 You think he's a double agent. Yes. 950 01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:54,000 But everyone who checked up on the issue says there is no chance in hell! 951 01:09:54,120 --> 01:09:56,880 They say he was not a double agent, he was our agent. 952 01:09:57,200 --> 01:10:01,240 Zeira published a new version of his book, 953 01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:04,920 and to promote the book, he went to a television studio 954 01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:06,200 and he said... 955 01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:09,840 Regarding Marwan, he gave us excellent information, 956 01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:15,280 right up until the time of war, then he fucked us over. 957 01:10:15,480 --> 01:10:17,920 [theme music playing] 958 01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:23,280 An interview with Commander Eli Zeira here on this show about the Yom Kippur War 959 01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:26,440 made an earthquake in the intelligence community. 960 01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:29,640 Head of the Mossad, Zvi Zamir, answers back. 961 01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:33,280 Zamir called him a liar. "You lie." 962 01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:36,760 He, Eli Zeira, is censoring information! 963 01:10:37,200 --> 01:10:39,680 He releases information that reflects, 964 01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:42,040 you know what, his sick state of mind! 965 01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:43,360 [cameras clicking] 966 01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:48,040 YOSSI MELMAN: So, Zeira took him to court for libel, 967 01:10:48,120 --> 01:10:52,880 so Zamir countered by taking Zeira to court for libel. 968 01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:57,040 So, there were two libel cases. 969 01:10:57,440 --> 01:11:00,760 The Mossad realized that it's getting out of hand. 970 01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:05,080 These two elderly gentlemen which were compared 971 01:11:05,240 --> 01:11:06,840 to those who are sitting on the balcony 972 01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:11,760 in the market shops, quarreling and spilling secrets... 973 01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:15,280 So, the Mossad said, "Let's go to arbitration." 974 01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:24,640 DR. BREGMAN: I was invited to the arbitration by General Eli Zeira, 975 01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:27,640 who paid for my flight ticket, by the way. 976 01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:32,280 Zeira wanted me to tell the judge that he was not my source, 977 01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:34,560 which was correct. 978 01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:40,400 But the judge asked me about Zeira's book, to which I said, 979 01:11:40,480 --> 01:11:42,840 "Yes, it was an important source." 980 01:11:44,840 --> 01:11:49,200 The lawyer of the head of the Mossad took out this book 981 01:11:49,280 --> 01:11:50,880 and waved it in the air. 982 01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:55,880 I understood that was a big mistake to admit... 983 01:11:56,680 --> 01:12:00,440 that the book was my source, because for the judge, 984 01:12:00,520 --> 01:12:04,200 the book and Eli Zeira were basically the same. 985 01:12:05,560 --> 01:12:09,120 So stupid to be brought there all the way from London 986 01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:13,920 to give testimony to protect Zeira, and, in fact, 987 01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:18,440 I was the one who put, indirectly, the blame on Zeira 988 01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:23,280 by saying that his book was one of my most important sources. 989 01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:25,440 It was very embarrassing, in fact. 990 01:12:26,360 --> 01:12:27,520 TOMMY: After all that... 991 01:12:27,720 --> 01:12:29,240 Yeah. [Laughs] 992 01:12:29,320 --> 01:12:30,400 Terrible. 993 01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:33,240 It's amazing. It's not amazing, Tommy. 994 01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:34,600 It's terrible. 995 01:12:34,680 --> 01:12:36,480 Everyone thinks that I'm clever. 996 01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:37,920 I was so stupid. 997 01:12:41,360 --> 01:12:42,560 And Zeira lost. 998 01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:46,560 [car horns honking] 999 01:12:48,480 --> 01:12:50,320 And then came a big mistake. 1000 01:12:51,680 --> 01:12:56,680 The judge wrote a report where openly he stated 1001 01:12:56,960 --> 01:13:01,440 that Ashraf Marwan was a Mossad agent. 1002 01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:07,960 This is the report of the judge, Zeira versus Zamir. 1003 01:13:09,160 --> 01:13:14,680 Here, look, Ashraf's name is mentioned many times, 1004 01:13:14,840 --> 01:13:15,840 which was terrible. 1005 01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:21,680 Here they say there was a top agent... 1006 01:13:23,960 --> 01:13:25,880 who was handled by the Mossad. 1007 01:13:26,080 --> 01:13:29,440 "The agent, or Marwan..." 1008 01:13:30,240 --> 01:13:32,040 And they expose him, his name, here. 1009 01:13:33,480 --> 01:13:37,400 So, he is mentioned in this report so many times. 1010 01:13:38,480 --> 01:13:42,680 As long as a historian, Ahron Bregman, said what he said about Marwan, 1011 01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:47,760 this was bad but not the end of the world. 1012 01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:52,440 But the moment a judge says... 1013 01:13:54,560 --> 01:13:56,520 "the agent, Marwan," 1014 01:13:56,720 --> 01:13:57,800 this was official. 1015 01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:00,400 When I saw it, the report, online, 1016 01:14:01,120 --> 01:14:03,160 I nearly fell off my chair. 1017 01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:08,600 His life was in real danger. 1018 01:14:10,040 --> 01:14:15,160 I sent a fax message to Ashraf Marwan to phone me. 1019 01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:21,520 I collected my son, put him in front of the television. 1020 01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:24,200 The telephone answering machine was flashing. 1021 01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:28,960 AUTOMATED VOICE: Message received today at 1:52 p.m. 1022 01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:34,680 And I was taken aback when I heard Ashraf's own voice. 1023 01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:36,880 ASHRAF MARWAN: Hello, hi. 1024 01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:39,200 Hello. About your book, if you could call me back... 1025 01:14:39,600 --> 01:14:40,880 on my mobile. Thank you. 1026 01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:45,840 It was very unusual. 1027 01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:49,520 Ashraf was a real spy, spies don't leave messages... 1028 01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:52,320 [button clicks] ...and then a second message. 1029 01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:53,480 [button clicks] 1030 01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:55,640 ASHRAF MARWAN: Please. Hello, can you call me? 1031 01:14:55,760 --> 01:14:57,800 It's about your book. Thank you. 1032 01:14:58,440 --> 01:14:59,480 [recording ends] 1033 01:14:59,720 --> 01:15:01,600 AUTOMATED VOICE: To return the call using the... 1034 01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:03,759 [button clicks] DR. BREGMAN: I could see that he was... 1035 01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:05,720 [tape fast-forwarding] ...under pressure. 1036 01:15:08,200 --> 01:15:09,200 ASHRAF MARWAN: Please. 1037 01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:11,440 Hello, can you call me? It's about your book. 1038 01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:12,520 Thank you. 1039 01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:16,760 DR. BREGMAN: Almost one after the other. 1040 01:15:16,960 --> 01:15:20,880 AUTOMATED VOICE: Message received today at 3:11 p.m. 1041 01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:23,400 ASHRAF MARWAN: Hello, hi, good afternoon. 1042 01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:25,519 If you could call me, I'm the subject of your book. 1043 01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:26,520 Thank you. 1044 01:15:27,080 --> 01:15:28,719 AUTOMATED VOICE: To listen to the message again... 1045 01:15:28,720 --> 01:15:29,720 [button clicks] 1046 01:15:30,480 --> 01:15:33,160 I've known him for five years. 1047 01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:37,200 This was the first time that he left messages 1048 01:15:37,280 --> 01:15:38,720 on my answering machine. 1049 01:15:40,880 --> 01:15:46,880 I took out my old tape recorder and I, for the first time, 1050 01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:49,600 decided to record the conversation. 1051 01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:56,720 I dialed the number, my finger was shaking. 1052 01:15:56,880 --> 01:15:58,040 [ringing tone] 1053 01:15:58,120 --> 01:15:59,200 He picked up the phone. 1054 01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:00,520 [rustling against microphone] 1055 01:16:01,320 --> 01:16:03,320 DR. BREGMAN: [on audio recording] Hello, my friend. 1056 01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:05,760 I'm okay, and how are you? 1057 01:16:05,840 --> 01:16:07,240 Yes, sure. Absolutely. 1058 01:16:07,440 --> 01:16:09,680 Yes, yes. Absolutely, yes. 1059 01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:10,760 Bye-bye. 1060 01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:13,320 He asked me to phone him again. 1061 01:16:13,400 --> 01:16:14,400 "Put it down." 1062 01:16:14,640 --> 01:16:16,921 DR. BREGMAN: [on audio recording] And two minutes later... 1063 01:16:17,000 --> 01:16:19,600 DR. BREGMAN: [in scene] I'm talking to myself two minutes later... 1064 01:16:21,160 --> 01:16:23,520 and he is not answering, which was strange. 1065 01:16:25,320 --> 01:16:28,440 I was very concerned that he said to me, "Phone me again," 1066 01:16:28,520 --> 01:16:30,760 and then I tried again... So, something 1067 01:16:30,840 --> 01:16:33,400 is happening in the room when I am talking to him. 1068 01:16:33,480 --> 01:16:35,000 You see, I am waiting for him. 1069 01:16:36,200 --> 01:16:38,481 DR. BREGMAN: [on audio recording] And two minutes later... 1070 01:16:39,640 --> 01:16:40,640 Third time. 1071 01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:45,960 What's happening in the room? 1072 01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:47,960 Are you there, you know? 1073 01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:50,240 I phoned him, he said, "Phone me again." 1074 01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:53,480 I'm trying and trying and trying. 1075 01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:56,840 [ringing tone] 1076 01:16:56,920 --> 01:16:58,640 DR. BREGMAN: [on audio recording] Hi, hello. 1077 01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:00,600 No, no, no. Don't worry. 1078 01:17:00,720 --> 01:17:05,240 So, um, the report of the judge came out... 1079 01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:09,080 and there are details there. This is the bottom line. 1080 01:17:10,600 --> 01:17:13,720 Ashraf wanted the story to die, 1081 01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:20,240 what he gets here is a report from me that his story 1082 01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:23,040 is very much alive, 1083 01:17:23,560 --> 01:17:26,120 and I'm sure that he is very stressed. 1084 01:17:26,200 --> 01:17:27,600 I am sure that he is very worried. 1085 01:17:27,680 --> 01:17:28,880 It's awful for him. 1086 01:17:30,120 --> 01:17:31,879 DR. BREGMAN: [on audio recording] Are you in England? 1087 01:17:31,880 --> 01:17:34,560 [Ashraf Marwan speaking inaudibly] 1088 01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:39,560 DR. BREGMAN: Tomorrow, I will be in town. I will be at King's College. 1089 01:17:39,960 --> 01:17:42,680 If you want to meet, we can meet, but it's up to you. 1090 01:17:43,640 --> 01:17:45,280 Okay, my friend. All the best. 1091 01:17:45,360 --> 01:17:46,560 Bye-bye. Bye-bye. 1092 01:17:47,120 --> 01:17:48,280 [hangs up] 1093 01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:49,640 I am shaking. 1094 01:18:13,800 --> 01:18:19,360 This is one of the rare events where people pay with their lives. 1095 01:18:20,640 --> 01:18:21,920 He paid with his life, 1096 01:18:23,240 --> 01:18:24,560 and he didn't deserve it. 1097 01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:46,440 YOSSI MELMAN: After the death of Ashraf Marwan, 1098 01:18:47,480 --> 01:18:49,160 Ronnie was in shock. 1099 01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:54,560 DR. BREGMAN: I felt big pain. It was very painful when he died. 1100 01:18:59,760 --> 01:19:04,760 I spent hours in the mountains thinking about it, 1101 01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:06,560 reflecting about it. 1102 01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:10,720 His death was my failure to protect him. 1103 01:19:11,720 --> 01:19:14,040 This is how I looked at it. 1104 01:19:16,720 --> 01:19:20,240 YOSSI MELMAN: I flew to interview Ronnie Bregman. 1105 01:19:20,640 --> 01:19:24,960 We had a very lengthy conversation, he said, "Maybe it's my fault." 1106 01:19:26,320 --> 01:19:30,520 Then we talked a lot in details with all these arguments 1107 01:19:30,600 --> 01:19:32,680 which I raised before. 1108 01:19:33,560 --> 01:19:38,080 At the end of it, Ronnie told me, "You know, Yossi? You are right. 1109 01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:41,240 I don't believe anymore that he was a double agent, 1110 01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:42,400 you convinced me." 1111 01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:52,040 ZVI ZAMIR: Eli had a clique of journalists surrounding him. 1112 01:19:52,560 --> 01:19:54,640 And among them, one historian. 1113 01:19:55,000 --> 01:19:58,200 If you ask me, and I'm not just saying this, 1114 01:19:58,280 --> 01:20:00,080 these people are disgusting. 1115 01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:01,600 Why? 1116 01:20:01,680 --> 01:20:04,040 Because these people distort the truth. 1117 01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:13,440 [crowd clamoring] 1118 01:20:16,680 --> 01:20:17,960 AMOS GILBOA: Yeah, the funeral. 1119 01:20:18,520 --> 01:20:24,320 They asked me, "Okay, he got such an Egypt funeral. 1120 01:20:24,640 --> 01:20:30,120 With all the leadership coming with black suits. 1121 01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:37,480 His widow stand there. All the high echelon passed by her, 1122 01:20:38,080 --> 01:20:40,280 kissing her or whispering..." 1123 01:20:40,480 --> 01:20:45,240 They asked me, "How could it be that this is a traitor?" 1124 01:20:46,800 --> 01:20:49,560 I watched many mafia movies. 1125 01:20:50,120 --> 01:20:53,840 When the mafia killed one of their members, 1126 01:20:53,920 --> 01:20:58,200 all the dons are passing by the widow, whispering, 1127 01:20:59,280 --> 01:21:02,320 "We will give you money," "We will give you money." 1128 01:21:03,120 --> 01:21:06,080 The funeral of Ashraf Marwan... 1129 01:21:07,040 --> 01:21:09,560 reminds me the same. 1130 01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:12,360 [indistinct chatter] RAJEEV SYAL: This is Westminster Coroner Court 1131 01:21:21,640 --> 01:21:25,000 where there was a three-day hearing to decide a verdict 1132 01:21:25,080 --> 01:21:27,040 on the death of Ashraf Marwan. 1133 01:21:29,720 --> 01:21:33,920 During the inquest, it was mentioned he had been writing his memoirs. 1134 01:21:35,320 --> 01:21:37,640 I had seen where the memoirs were supposed 1135 01:21:37,720 --> 01:21:41,960 to have been stored on the shelf and they'd disappeared, 1136 01:21:42,080 --> 01:21:44,400 according to the family, on the day that he died. 1137 01:21:44,480 --> 01:21:49,640 Now, in those memoirs he was expected to discuss his role 1138 01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:51,760 in the October War. 1139 01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:53,520 Of course, he was going to reject 1140 01:21:53,600 --> 01:21:56,240 the allegation that he was a Mossad agent, 1141 01:21:56,640 --> 01:22:00,240 but they'd disappeared, according to the family. 1142 01:22:03,560 --> 01:22:06,080 DR. BREGMAN: The Marwan family, through their lawyer, 1143 01:22:06,160 --> 01:22:08,640 asked me to appear before the coroner. 1144 01:22:09,960 --> 01:22:14,040 I was sitting where the coroner listened to the testimonies 1145 01:22:14,280 --> 01:22:16,760 and it was quite confusing, 1146 01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:22,360 and my mind was telling me, "Wow, it was a murder." 1147 01:22:22,440 --> 01:22:24,960 And then a minute later, "No, it was an accident." 1148 01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:27,080 And then, "No, it was a suicide." 1149 01:22:27,240 --> 01:22:31,200 And to sit there with the family, at the back of my mind, 1150 01:22:31,360 --> 01:22:35,920 there was the question, "What was my responsibility?" 1151 01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:38,640 It was a very unpleasant experience. 1152 01:22:39,760 --> 01:22:41,920 There was a three-day hearing to decide, 1153 01:22:43,640 --> 01:22:44,920 and at the end of it, 1154 01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:47,920 the coroner handed down an open verdict on his death. 1155 01:22:55,360 --> 01:22:56,959 Which the family were very pleased about, 1156 01:22:56,960 --> 01:23:00,560 because it allowed the family to rule out suicide. I did feel for Mona, she was devastated. 1157 01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:26,760 [speaking Arabic] Madame Mona, what was the hardest moment in your life? 1158 01:23:26,920 --> 01:23:28,200 [speaking Arabic] Two moments... 1159 01:23:29,600 --> 01:23:32,680 [cheering] ...the death of my father and my mother, 1160 01:23:32,760 --> 01:23:34,400 and the loss of Ashraf. 1161 01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:40,360 But at the end of the day, as his wife, I lost him, 1162 01:23:41,120 --> 01:23:43,600 but at the same time, I feel grateful 1163 01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:47,560 that I could be with him for 30 years. 1164 01:24:15,240 --> 01:24:19,600 [call to prayer] 1165 01:24:36,560 --> 01:24:38,279 [speaking Arabic] So if he was in touch with Israel, 1166 01:24:38,280 --> 01:24:40,960 then it was out of orders from the Egyptian side? 1167 01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:47,160 [speaking Arabic] This is not even to be questioned; 1168 01:24:47,320 --> 01:24:52,000 I am not going to defend something that I don't need to. 1169 01:24:52,280 --> 01:24:56,160 This is something that I am sure of 100 percent, 1170 01:24:56,240 --> 01:24:59,080 not even just 100 percent... 1171 01:25:05,800 --> 01:25:07,880 Everyone fought in his or her way. 1172 01:25:09,440 --> 01:25:12,160 DR. KANDIL: Ashraf Marwan in Egypt is regarded as a patriot 1173 01:25:12,480 --> 01:25:16,080 who worked for Sadat to deceive the Israelis. 1174 01:25:16,240 --> 01:25:20,960 Basically, by giving Egypt a four-hour lead in the 1973 war, 1175 01:25:22,120 --> 01:25:25,160 but Israel regard him as a national hero. 1176 01:25:25,720 --> 01:25:28,240 Double is very hard to believe. 1177 01:25:29,040 --> 01:25:31,920 In my opinion, he was ours. 1178 01:25:32,160 --> 01:25:36,880 DR. KANDIL: The Israeli side of things is supported by evidence, 1179 01:25:37,080 --> 01:25:41,960 the Egyptian side has yet to present its own record, 1180 01:25:42,360 --> 01:25:46,520 and only when both of them are available can we decide 1181 01:25:46,640 --> 01:25:49,200 which is the more authentic version of the story. 1182 01:25:50,440 --> 01:25:54,840 The question is: Why is the Egyptian Intelligence Services, 1183 01:25:54,960 --> 01:25:58,240 50 years down the line, not releasing any shred of evidence 1184 01:25:58,320 --> 01:26:00,160 about Ashraf Marwan? 1185 01:26:01,760 --> 01:26:04,880 The fact that we do not have any evidence 1186 01:26:04,960 --> 01:26:07,400 is really not about Ashraf Marwan. 1187 01:26:07,560 --> 01:26:12,880 It is about the fact that if the Egyptians release any documents, 1188 01:26:13,040 --> 01:26:18,680 it will establish a precedent that the public can have a say on how 1189 01:26:18,760 --> 01:26:21,400 the Egyptian State should be transparent, 1190 01:26:21,480 --> 01:26:24,760 that it should be accountable, and the Egyptian State 1191 01:26:24,920 --> 01:26:27,160 doesn't want to establish this precedent at all. 1192 01:26:28,400 --> 01:26:32,760 Even though, by not revealing anything about Ashraf Marwan, 1193 01:26:33,000 --> 01:26:36,400 it can be still raising suspicion that, in fact, 1194 01:26:36,480 --> 01:26:39,320 he was an Israeli spy rather than a double agent. 1195 01:26:40,280 --> 01:26:43,520 The Ashraf Marwan story, this is not the real story. 1196 01:26:43,680 --> 01:26:47,560 This is a side story of something that is much bigger. 1197 01:26:50,120 --> 01:26:52,560 The Egyptian people, they want to know the truth. 1198 01:26:52,920 --> 01:26:55,120 [indistinct chatter] 1199 01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:09,280 DR. BREGMAN: We have the full report of the meeting 1200 01:27:09,440 --> 01:27:14,120 between Zamir and Ashraf Marwan just released by the Israelis. 1201 01:27:15,320 --> 01:27:18,040 There are five pages, enough information 1202 01:27:18,120 --> 01:27:22,480 for the two schools of thought to find enough elements 1203 01:27:22,680 --> 01:27:24,840 to support their own theory. 1204 01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:31,200 I always believed Ashraf was a double agent, 1205 01:27:31,680 --> 01:27:32,920 I never doubted that. 1206 01:27:34,120 --> 01:27:37,440 I don't understand why he's still sticking 1207 01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:40,720 to this bullshit theory of a double agent. 1208 01:27:40,800 --> 01:27:42,960 I can understand that maybe at the beginning 1209 01:27:43,040 --> 01:27:46,840 he was under this spell and the impression of Eli Zeira. 1210 01:27:47,040 --> 01:27:50,720 Fine. But then, after he already admitted 1211 01:27:50,800 --> 01:27:53,960 in our conversation, he was almost crying. 1212 01:27:54,280 --> 01:27:56,200 I don't know. It's an enigma for me. 1213 01:27:57,640 --> 01:28:00,160 TOMMY: Yossi told me that he convinced you 1214 01:28:00,240 --> 01:28:02,840 Ashraf was not a double agent. 1215 01:28:02,920 --> 01:28:05,400 I don't think that this was the case. 1216 01:28:05,520 --> 01:28:09,640 Yossi believes in what he believes, along with the Mossad. 1217 01:28:09,720 --> 01:28:12,720 The truth, it's in the eye of the beholder. 1218 01:28:14,640 --> 01:28:16,640 SHABTAI SHAVIT: The fact that he is not ready to... 1219 01:28:16,680 --> 01:28:19,200 face the real story and to... 1220 01:28:19,920 --> 01:28:24,680 to have the courage and the guts to say, "I was mistaken," 1221 01:28:25,000 --> 01:28:28,680 it's his problem with his conscience. 1222 01:28:31,720 --> 01:28:35,920 AMOS GILBOA: Unmasking the name of a human source, 1223 01:28:36,760 --> 01:28:38,000 it's a sin. 1224 01:28:38,400 --> 01:28:39,880 TOMMY: What would you say to him? 1225 01:28:40,080 --> 01:28:42,240 "Go to hell, bastard!" 1226 01:28:42,840 --> 01:28:44,720 Really. "Go to hell, bastard!" 1227 01:28:45,240 --> 01:28:46,360 "How dare you?" 1228 01:28:48,000 --> 01:28:51,680 DAVID ARBEL: Because you don't put in danger a human being 1229 01:28:51,840 --> 01:28:54,800 because you want to be famous. 1230 01:28:55,520 --> 01:28:58,040 DR. BREGMAN: When it comes to the story of Ashraf Marwan 1231 01:28:58,160 --> 01:29:00,480 there is no ego in me. 1232 01:29:01,040 --> 01:29:05,640 The Mossad, they can't give up on their story of Ashraf. 1233 01:29:07,240 --> 01:29:10,720 And when I'm in bed at night, as you put it, 1234 01:29:11,480 --> 01:29:15,800 I don't really think about whether or not he was double. 1235 01:29:16,240 --> 01:29:19,520 I lost interest in this question, Tommy. 1236 01:29:19,680 --> 01:29:24,360 It's about the pain which I inflicted on him 1237 01:29:24,680 --> 01:29:26,480 in unmasking him. 1238 01:29:27,760 --> 01:29:29,960 TOMMY: I just want you to ponder a question, though, 1239 01:29:30,280 --> 01:29:32,960 is still believing that he's a double agent, 1240 01:29:33,400 --> 01:29:36,240 is it not easier to believe that, 1241 01:29:36,320 --> 01:29:37,960 because then everything you went through 1242 01:29:38,040 --> 01:29:39,920 would at least then not be for nothing? 1243 01:31:08,320 --> 01:31:10,480 TOMMY: What impact did this have on your marriage? 1244 01:31:10,960 --> 01:31:12,320 DR. BREGMAN: Of course, I divorced, 1245 01:31:12,640 --> 01:31:15,640 but it was not because of the Marwan story. 1246 01:31:16,400 --> 01:31:21,720 But I think, in hindsight, it does have impact, because it's a secret. 1247 01:31:23,120 --> 01:31:26,240 My then wife, when she came to know about it, 1248 01:31:26,440 --> 01:31:31,280 she had the common sense to tell me that it will end in tears. 1249 01:31:32,640 --> 01:31:34,920 But it was, of course... it was too late. 1250 01:31:35,560 --> 01:31:40,880 And by that time, the train already left the station. 1251 01:31:42,440 --> 01:31:45,560 Maybe your fish, they want to have more food. 1252 01:31:45,800 --> 01:31:46,960 They love food. 1253 01:31:48,400 --> 01:31:51,680 My fish, if I open this one, they jump. 1254 01:31:51,760 --> 01:31:52,840 TOMMY: Do they? Yeah. 1255 01:31:53,720 --> 01:31:56,000 They are guppies. You know, guppies like to jump. 1256 01:31:57,360 --> 01:32:01,440 But with them they jump and I can save them... 1257 01:32:01,800 --> 01:32:02,800 [Tommy laughs] 1258 01:32:02,880 --> 01:32:06,040 ...because I just bring them from the floor and put them back. 1259 01:32:06,200 --> 01:32:07,880 Look. Look how many of them. 1260 01:32:15,760 --> 01:32:18,640 FEMALE REPORTER: This afternoon historic documents 1261 01:32:18,800 --> 01:32:23,280 concluding the Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt 1262 01:32:23,360 --> 01:32:25,920 and the State of Israel will be signed. 1263 01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:28,360 [applause] 1264 01:32:28,480 --> 01:32:30,280 It's better to have the three of us together. 1265 01:32:30,400 --> 01:32:31,400 Very good. 1266 01:32:32,120 --> 01:32:34,440 [all laughing] 1267 01:32:34,520 --> 01:32:35,840 [speaking indistinctly] 1268 01:32:36,000 --> 01:32:37,559 JIMMY CARTER: I'm so proud of both of you. 1269 01:32:37,560 --> 01:32:38,720 God bless you both. 1270 01:32:38,800 --> 01:32:40,320 ANWAR SADAT: Thank you, Mr. President. 101847

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