Original subtitles

KARLEY: Would you ever have sex with both of them in the same day?

In the same day, I have, and I would, yeah, so, yes.

And you guys are okay with that?

-Yeah. -Yeah.

I have a lot of stamina.

♪♪

KARLEY: As a self-identified slut,

I've never been great at monogamy.

The problem is, I've tried open relationship in the past,

but I always morphed into a jealous demon

whenever my partner banged someone else.

[ Demon growls ]

Basically, I wanted to let my ho flag fly

while my partner stayed locked in a cage.

Is that unfair?

I can't help but wonder, is it actually possible

to fuck and love multiple people at the same time

and not go crazy?

♪♪

From the "open-relationship" option on Facebook

to mega-successful books on nonmonogamy,

lately it feels like every woke Tinder brother and their mom

is in an open relationship, so I want to know,

when it comes to open relationships,

how DTF are people actually?

Would you ever want to be in an open relationship?

-Yeah. -Sure.

Yes.

If I get to have more than one partner,

then I'm pretty fine with it, you feel me?

You only like once, so YOLO.

I think monogamy is kind of a myth.

I think it came along with religion

and social pressures, I guess.

And monogamy has made women into possessions.

Yeah.

Are you guys in a monogamous relationship?

-Yes. -Yes.

[ Laughs ]

What do you think if you had a girlfriend,

and she had a boyfriend?

Um...

It just sounds like more mess.

It's a lot of negotiation, a lot of time management.

It's project management. It's everything.

You can't spend money on a woman and another woman.

It's expensive.Yeah.

I don't got that money.

You got that? No.

Ah, see.

[ Cash register dings ]

KARLEY: So it seems like the horny masses

are at least poly-curious,

but deprogramming everything we've learned about love

and social norms seems like a hassle, honestly.

If only there was a slutty guru who could lead the way.

I'm about to meet Effy Blue, who's a relationship coach

who specializes in coaching people

who are trying to form any kind of nonmonogamous relationship.

If someone doesn't want to be monogamous,

what are their options?

So monogamy is defined, shorthand,

essentially with fidelity, right?

We say "fidelity."

You don't fuck anybody else,

you're in a monogamous relationship,

and then when you sort of step into nonmonogamy,

you have options.

You can swing.

You can be in an open relationship,

or you can be polyamorous --

so poly, many, amory, loves, many loves.

Polyamory is nurturing multiple loving,

long-term relationships at the same time.

For most of my life, I've been pretty slutty.

Mm-hmm. Welcome.

You're in good company.

[ Both laugh ]

In my late 20s, I spent a couple years

in an open relationship,

and it surprised me that it really didn't work out.

I would compare myself to the other women

and, like, want to kill them, stuff like that.

So first of all, jealousy is a human emotion.

No one is above it, and what jealousy does is

that it shines a spotlight into that part of you

that you need to do the work with.

It's like an opportunity for self-examination.

Yeah. Annoying.

I know.

Yes, it's harder at the beginning,

but if you do the work over time,

it actually gets easier down the line.

Aside from coaching, I host a monthly event

called Polyamory 101, and everyone is welcome.

Effy: Good evening, everyone.

Thank you for coming to Curious Fox.

I'm going to let my panelists

introduce themselves, and I'm going to start...

I was going to say, you're looking at me.

[ Laughter ]Exactly, I'm going to start with Lola.

So I'm Lola, A.K.A. Dirty Lola.

I'm a sex educator/ performer/dildo slinger.

[ Laughter ]

I'm Ari, and I'm married to this lovely lady here.

We were introduced by an ex-lover of mine.

Hey, I'm Diane, and I've actually had

a few dates recently with this guy here.

[ Laughter ]

So I'll pass this on to you.

So I'm Andrew. I have another relationship

with Effy, and...

I'm not dating anybody up here.

[ Laughter ]

Effy: When people say, "Poly,"

it can mean so many different things,

and actually we've brought a white board here to show you

the different structures that polyamory can come.

So a "V" is, essentially you have

one person dating two people.

So for example, I'm in a "V" with Andrew and Beth,

and Andrew is the hinge.

Some people are in a "Z,"

so you have two people that are in a relationship,

and you have two other people that are in a relationship,

and then one of the couple will be in a relationship.

A triad or a thrupple, essentially is three people

that are in a relationship like this.

If you have, like, four people, they can, like,

be all in a relationship together like this.

KARLEY: Wait, when did I sign up for a geometry course?

Being slutty is randomly complicated.

Effy: Is there anything that I missed?

-Hmm. -This is, like, all the shapes.

-Yeah. -So now we're going to open up

to the floor for you guys to ask any questions that you have.

So once you guys have more than one relationship,

do you ever have any jealousy?

Diane: You know, jealousy pops up in weird ways.

You could feel okay about something intellectually,

but emotionally, you just have this gut reaction.

There was one time he was dating someone,

and it was getting pretty serious.

We had pretty strict agreements written out.

You know, like one of them, for example,

was no anal sex with other people,

but then I realized, I don't care if you have

anal sex with other people, but then one day he mentioned

that he was going on an afternoon picnic with a date,

and I almost had a heart attack

because I was like, you know, anal sex is fine,

but a picnic just feels too intimate.

[ Laughter ]So...

So I was in a poly relationship a long time, years ago,

and my then-wife was having a lot more fun than me,

and I was getting really jealous.

We've noticed that we have a seesaw, like...

Mm-hmm....when she's dating

a lot of people, like, I'm not.

Yeah.And then when I'm dating

a lot of people, then she's not.

Nothing is ever 100% equal in anything.

Don't sweat it.

If it's really unbalanced, and that makes you uncomfortable,

like, shouldn't you be allowed to be like,

"Yeah, like, slow down."

It's not monogamy.

You don't get to tell anybody who to love

and how to love and how often to love.

You an request, like, you need to be making agreements

about what you're doing, but it's hard.

It's hard.

I think it's important to realize that in the moment

comes up when you might feel jealous, you have options.

You can feel jealous, or you can find that

joy and celebration in your partner's happiness.

In Buddhism, they call it mudita.

In poly, we call it compersion.

KARLEY: Compersion?

When I first discovered this word, "compersion,"

it just created a lot of clarity for me

because otherwise you can't make multiple relationships work.

Interesting.

Does this made-up word, "compersion,"

hold the key to a jealousy-free existence?

Effy: Thank you for coming. I hope this was helpful.

[ Applause ]

KARLEY: So all of this sounds good in theory,

but is it actually possible to feel joy

when your partner finds a fuck buddy.

L.T.: The scariest place for jealousy is in your imagination.

What are you guys into sexually?

Pile ons.

-Yeah. -What's a pile on?

We have sex, and, like, we have sex,

but we do not all have sex together.

KARLEY: It's pretty clear that for most people,

the biggest hurdle to being

in a polyamorous relationship is jealousy,

so I am here outside of a poly wrestling class

where people attempt to work out their possessiveness issues

by slamming into each other.

Let's see how this works.

So I'm Coach L.T., and welcome to Compersion Wrestling.

"Compersion" is a word that is typically used

in the ethical nonmonogamy or the polyamorous community.

It means finding joy seeing your partner experience joy.

You're going to have a partner that you're familiar with.

You're going to have a partner you just met today.

You're going to have new partners.

You may see an old partner.

In order to be successful, you have to put yourself

in a position where you're also vulnerable.

It's just working on, "How do I deal with that vulnerability?"

KARLEY: Wait, so tackling your boyfriend's girlfriend

is suddenly going to flip your jealousy

into this weird compersion thing?

I'm not following.

So what's the deal with compersion?

That's a made-up word, right?

We do experience the feeling of compersion

in many aspects of our lives, so if my friend calls me

and say, "Hey, I got a brand-new job.

I'm super happy," you're never like,

"Oh, fuck you. You suck." Right?

So it's more like, "That's awesome."

So the goal would be to hear that your partner

had this amazing sex with someone they met on the subway

and for you to be like, "I'm so happy for you?"

Yes. I don't want to resent someone

because they don't feel good about me being happy.

Woman: You can try to move,

but I'm going to have you locked right here.

How does wrestling specifically help people

to deal with jealousy?

Here is an opportunity to be able to see your partner

engaging with another person,

maybe someone that they're already dating,

in a very intimate way.

You can start asking yourself what feelings are coming up

and why are they coming up that way?

It's a way to kind of combine something super fun

to take some of the edge off confronting these ideas.

Right.

Honestly, running away and hiding from jealousy

since usually my M.O.

Who are these maniacs who actually show up

to confront jealousy?

Can I ask you guys some questions?

-Sure. -What it your guys'

relationship structure?

Are you guys together in a polycule?

I've been dating Patrizia for about 2, 2 1/2 years,

and Kat and I only met about a month ago.

Are you new to ethical nonmonogamy

or just new to this relationship?

New to both.

So what do you think this class might help with?

Definitely the sharing aspect.

Yeah, I've never had to share a person before.

All right. So...

Okay.I go this way...

So...Yes.

L.T.: The scariest place for jealousy

is in your imagination.

It's what these people do together when you're not around,

and here is a chance to see them just doing something silly,

and you also get to see why it makes them happy,

but I what I tell people is, it's a class.

It's not a cure.

Lay down.So you're not going to

leave the class feeling like,

"Oh, I'm now the compersion guru."

It's not that. It's the first step.

It seems like a lot of work.

Personal development is not about being easy, you know?

It's about improving. I know. Exactly, right?

It's something we need to do.

If I was going in any kind of direction,

you were actually keeping very, very good position there.

Good job.

KARLEY: All this wrestling, does it make you feel

more empowered to explore the idea of compersion?

Yeah, I like the concept of compersion.

It's appealing.

Polyamory, I'm still on the fence about that,

like, honestly.

KARLEY: Yeah. I feel you.

So even if you're one of these enlightened people

who can transcend your jealousy, is the day-to-day struggle

of making a poly relationship work actually worth it?

I'm on my way to meet Sierra,

a woman who's currently in two relationships --

one with her long-term partner, Alec, and another with Markus,

who just joined their triad three months ago.

She's, like, super busy.

[ Food sizzling ]

So, what are we ordering?

Okay, so Markus doesn't like bagels,

so Alec is going to get a poppy seed bagel.

That's what he gets every morning,

and then I'm going to get Markus a chopped cheese.

I don't even feel like I can remember what, like,

my one boyfriend wants to eat.

[ Laughs ]

Do you say that they're both your boyfriends, or...

Yeah. And are you like,

"This is my primary boyfriend," or like,

"my top-tier boyfriend"?

Everyone is aware that Alec is my primary partner.

It's like the same way that like if you have

an emergency contact at work, like,

you have an emergency contact.

You know who that it is. Like, that's not Markus.

It's Alec, so pretending that they're equal

would not benefit anyone, you know?

I like the idea of this, like, emergency contact

over primary partner.

Yeah. There you go.

I want to meet them. Yes.

They're very sweet. They're at the house.

We can go.

KARLEY: How does sex happen?

Do you have to schedule...Google Document.

-Yes. -It's a Google Doc, yeah.

KARLEY: So, I'm hanging out with Sierra,

who is about to introduce me to her two boyfriends.

I want to find out, is a polyamorous relationship

worth all the effort?

-Hey. -Breakfast!

So I got a bagel for you.

Here you go, babe.Oh, thank you so much.

And I have chopped cheese for you.

See if it's good, though. I got all the stuff on it, okay?

♪ Whoo!

KARLEY: So what does your relationship look like?

I call him boyfriend. I call him boyfriend.

He calls me girlfriend. He calls me girlfriend.

We have sex, and, like, we have sex, but we do not

all have sex together, so I think that some people...

Maybe that's what they do in their relationship,

or they're looking for that.

That's not what we're looking for.

KARLEY: So obviously you guys have separate relationships.

Mm-hmm. It's open.

Sierra: Not just sex. Love.

We can do everything, yeah.

The goal would be to love other people.

The more love, the better.

Like, this is an additive model for love here.

KARLEY: Are you in love with both of them?

I am.

I think it's threatening because you just feel like,

what if you love someone more than you love me?

Sierra: That's a big one.

Alec will bring up to me sometimes, like,

"Hey, I haven't had enough time with you

because you've been spending a lot of time with Markus.

Can we plan, like, a getaway together?"

And, like, we'll do that.

We have so much Euro. We need to save all this Euro.

We might go to Europe.Yeah, because...

There's a lot of Euros.

And that's been really important for me to, like,

move things aside in order to respect that with him.

Say cheers to us. [ Laughs ]

And the same thing, like, with Markus.

He needs a lot of emotional support,

so that time management is something that comes into play.

Do you think people who are poly are,

like, better or more evolved...

[ Laughs ] No....than monogamous people?

No, not at all.

There's certain types of relationships

that I genuinely cannot do.

This is just one that works for me.

I felt like a failure doing monogamy.

I really did.

You just have to be so good at communication

for this to work.

You have to like communicating.

We're going to be in Japan in less than a month,

so we need to know at least four phrases.

-You're welcome. -What is, like,

"Excuse me because I bumped you on the train?

That's the only one I need to know.

-Sumimasen. -Sumimasen.

KARLEY: Markus has only been doing this poly thing

for three months, so, as a newbie,

is he, like, freaking out?

Because I would be.

When you met, and she told you that she was poly,

what did you think?

I was overwhelmed at first.

I'm not going lie because I had been

monogamous up until that point.

Is this really going to be a real connection?

Like, can someone really love two people at once,

and, like, a lot of things came into my head,

but just seeing how her and Alec interact,

it's different from the way me and her interact,

so it works, in a sense.

It takes away a lot of the jealousy I had,

and because most of the jealousy I had stemmed

from not having met Alec first.

Do you think that meeting them has changed the way

you think about love and relationships on a whole?

Definitely.

Being monogamous, it does have its perks,

but the one thing it doesn't allow for is much freedom.

I feel like poly allows for that, and not only that,

but it allows for a deeper connection

because there has to be that level of communication,

that level of trust there.

Do you ever get sick of talking though?

Not when there's good conversation.

Fine.

KARLEY: Okay, but with all this talking,

is there even time for sex?

Sierra: Come here. [ Clicking tongue ]

Come here.

KARLEY: So if you guys all spend so much time together,

how does sex happen?

Like, do you have to schedule...

-Google Document. -Yes.

[ Laughs ] Really?It's a Google Doc. Yeah.

-Here you go, baby. -Yeah.

Like, do you have to pre-schedule

your own sex time slots, or are you just like,

"I'm going to go now to the other room,

and you have to wait outside?"

[ Laughs ] I think mainly it's like, if you know

I'm in the house, or we know

we're in the house, we communicate.

One time we [bleep] up, and me and Markus

came home, like, earlier or something,

and then Alec also came home from work much earlier

than expected, and so we ran into each other,

and then we were trying to have, like, a date.

I just at a certain point was like,

"Alec, would you mind leaving so me and Markus can have sex?"

and he was like, "Yeah," and he, like, got up and left.

And you guys are okay with that?

-Yeah. -Yeah.

Alec: I don't actually really have a particular problem

with it because, like, you don't have to necessarily

rely on one person to get everything that you need

emotionally or physically, you know what I mean?

I mean, that's the other really big thing

that happens in this relationship,

but, like, Markus is black, and I'm black,

and we get to be black together.

I can't be black with Alec. You know what I mean?

So, like, I had been with Alec for a very long time.

I have this great relationship with him,

but there was this lacking area that just made me sad

that I wasn't able to connect with him on race.

I don't have to, like, force Alec to, like,

know everything about my culture.

I can get that from somebody else,

and we can still have our relationship.

So it's almost like you're different versions of yourself

with each of them. Yeah.

Well, you get to, like, tap into different areas

that you don't necessarily have as much access to

with one person.

You can tap into it with multiple people.

I have felt in my life, it's been ridiculous

when I have expected someone to be my everything,

and then it's just crashed and burned because nobody

is perfect, you know? Yeah.

I guess it's kind of asking a lot of someone to be...

To be everyone's one and only? Yeah.

KARLEY: I learned so much from hanging out with them.

By having multiple partners, it means that you're less

demanding of each specific partner,

which means that you can actually have, like,

a better, healthier relationship with each of them.

But let's be real.

How in the world do you find multiple people

who you can stand hanging out

with who all fit into the perfect poly puzzle?

Welcome to poly speed dating.

Hello.

-Hey. -Karley.

-Yoni? -Yes.

Isn't that the name for vagina?

Yeah.

KARLEY: So I've learned that in order to be in

a poly relationship, you have to face your insecurities

and be horny for communication,

so I imagine first dates for poly people

get to real talk real fast.

Sounds terrifying.

Let's go check it out.

Welcome to Hacienda poly speed dating.

[ Cheers and applause ]

So this is called poly speed dating,

but I'm sure there are many different types

of relationship styles in this room,

and I think that that's a great first question to start off

as we go through the rounds.

There's only one rule at Hacienda,

which is consent, so just ask before you touch.

Note to self -- no nonconsensual groping.

Okay. Begin.

[ Bell dinging ]

Hello. Karley.

-Yoni? -Yes.

Isn't that the name for a vagina?

Interesting.

So are you guys poly?

So you guys date other people separately as well as together?

Are you in a relationship right now?

You're in several relationships?

Yes.How many relationships are you in?

Three? You must be really busy.

[ Bell dinging ]

KARLEY: Whoa. These sluts already have packed iCals.

What else could they be looking for?

What are you guys into sexually?

What's a pile on?

Yeah, this is certainly not normal first-date convo.

I thought you weren't supposed to be your true self

until at least a year in.

[ Bell dinging ]

Why now are you looking to create a poly relationship?

So you think poly will open up the door to be like,

"I can have, like, a slave, and then I can have someone

who I have dinner with who doesn't necessarily

have to be the same person who, like, I whip."

A fetish of mine?

The bar in this room is raised a little bit.

Okay. So what do I like?

Um...

Biting I like. I like being blindfolded.

I kind of like being punished, being called, like,

a slut and being just, like, really "degraded"

but in a way where the person respects my boundaries.

KARLEY: Wow. These people really create

an environment that makes you feel free to open up.

Talk about word vomit.

So basically having freedom is better

than being locked in a cage.

Duh.

While loosening the reins on your relationship

can be literally terrifying, news flash,

only banging on person for life also has its difficulties.

Relationships are hard work

whether you're just fucking one person in the hot tub or 10.

But if you value sexual freedom and get off on communication,

maybe you're one of the lucky ones

who can have it all and then some.

Lots of love, sluts.

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