All language subtitles for The Case Against Adnan Syed - 01x04 - Time is the Killer.PHOENiX.English.HI.C.orig.Addic7ed.com

ADNAN SYED: The judge says
I manipulated my family

and I continue to manipulate people.

It just seemed like
the whole world believed it.

JENNIFER PUSATERI: I didn't
know that Jay

told four and five different stories.

It definitely couldn't have happened
on the 13th because I had class.

SUSAN SIMPSON: These cops
workshopped that story.

DARRYL MASSEY: That was
early stage learning

what cell tower investigations were.

This cell phone thing,
this was their Bible.

In this case, it took them
on the wrong path.

"Any incoming calls

will NOT be considered reliable
information for location."

REPORTER: A judge orders
a new trial for Adnan Syed.

We won on the cell tower issue.

He's innocent until proven guilty.

ADNAN: There's a huge road ahead.
Anything could still happen.

NEWSMAN: 18-year-old Hae Min Lee
disappeared on January 13th

after leaving Woodlawn High School.

On February 9th, police found
her half-buried body

in Baltimore's Leakin Park.
She had been strangled.

Key details they had withheld
as they sought out a suspect.

They now have one in custody.

The police suggest
the suspect had a motive

in the form of a fatal
attraction to his victim.

NEWSMAN 2: The subject is
identified as Adnan Masud Syed,

17 and a former football player

who is described as an
A-student, friendly to everyone.

NEWSMAN: News of Syed's
arrest is met with disbelief

by the community in Woodlawn.

They can't believe the boy
who had so much promise

now faces a murder rap.

Synced & corrected by reggielist
www.addic7ed.com

NEWSWOMAN: Tonight, convicted
murderer Adan Syed

finally knows he is getting another
chance to win his freedom.

This week, a Baltimore judge
vacating the conviction

and granting a new trial
to the now 35-year-old man.

But the judge's decision
opened old wounds

for victim Hae Min Lee's family.

(NEWSWOMAN READING QUOTE)

A statement from Maryland's
Attorney General,

which was against a new trial, said
the office will continue to fight

for what they believe
is a valid conviction.

NEWSMAN: Right now, a historic moment,

Donald Trump wins the presidency.

New developments in the
case against Adnan Syed.

The man at the center of
the first Serial podcast

was denied bail while
he awaits a new trial.

A strict ban...

(MISSILE ROARS)

It's going to be a while before
Adnan Syed gets a new trial,

if he ever does.

NEWSWOMAN: Any hope of
that actually happening

is pinned on Thursday's hearing.

(TV PLAYING INDISTINCTLY)

This presidency is sucking the oxygen

out of a lot of news stories.

I mean, even my attention's diverted

because of what's happening
in Washington, D.C.

Hae Min Lee disappeared in
the month of Ramadan in 1999,

and it's Ramadan now.

So that means Adnan has spent
17 Ramadans in prison.

My oldest daughter was
a child when Adnan was

incarcerated, and since
I've had two kids,

it just makes me feel like, you know,
life is passing him by.

(SPEAKING ARABIC)

- Congratulations, Rabia!
- Oh, thank you.

Oh, you look like Saad.

Does he? No, don't say that!
He looks like me!

- (LAUGHTER)
- Look at.

(RABIA GIGGLES)

(SPEAKING ARABIC)

Yeah, inshallah.

SHAMIM: Yes, soon.

(PHONE RINGING)

- JUSTIN BROWN: Hey.
- Hey, Justin. How's it going?

It's going well. How you doing?

I'm good, um, when are you heading out?

At 12. It'll probably
take me close to an hour

- to get there.
- Okay.

Auntie Shamim's here,
and we're gonna leave

in about ten minutes as well.

I'll see you soon. Take care. Bye-bye.

Today we have oral arguments
in the Syed appeal.

There's more that can be lost
than can be gained right now.

We're defending the opinion
of Judge Welch

in the circuit court.

And the State's looking
to flip-flop things,

so they're attacking Welch's
opinion on technical grounds.

They're basically saying that
we did not have a right

to present our winning issue, the
cell tower issue, in the court,

that the court should have never
even heard that in the first place.

And that's a really technical argument.

And then they're gonna argue
that there's no reason

the attorney would be
interested in an alibi witness.

They're gonna make all kinds
of arguments like that.

They win an overwhelming
number of their cases

by making arguments like
they are now making.

On the other hand, if we win

and if the judges write
the right opinion in our favor,

that could be enough
to dissuade the State

from appealing any further.

RABIA: We are going to win.
It's just more time.

- Today will be easy.
- Yes.

- Today's gonna be easy.
- Yes.

Justin will be there and Justin will

- will destroy the State.
- Yes, I hope so.

He will do very good.

- (CRIES QUIETLY)
- RABIA: It's okay.

- (SPEAKS ARABIC)
- Are you upset?

(SPEAKS ARABIC)

It's okay, it's okay.

Auntie, there's so many of us.

There's hundreds of us who are gonna...

I mean, like, watching
and who are gonna be there.

So many people are coming today.

(SPEAKING ARABIC)

What happened?

You want to go to the other room, huh?

What?

(CRYING): I'm sorry.

What are you saying?

- Can we cut this for a minute, please?
- It's all right.

No, I don't... Auntie,
come to the other room.

No, it's all right. It's all right.

- (RABIA CRYING)
- It's... I'll be fine.

I didn't... I didn't tell them.

No, I didn't tell Adnan.

- I just told my husband.
- (RABIA CRYING)

I'm fine.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean
to upset you, you know?

No, no, I just...

- I'm sorry.
- It's...

It's just... (SIGHS)

- Did they tell you what stage?
- Yeah, the first stage.

- They just found it out.
- Okay.

- They did the bone marrow biopsy.
- Okay. Inshallah you'll be fine.

They caught it quickly.

I think it's a good idea to tell Adnan.

Yeah, this what my husband say.
You know, he can pray for you.

SHAMIM: Hey, Rabia, he's here.

- JUSTIN: Hey, Rabia!
- RABIA: Hey!

I like this... (INDISTINCT)

JUSTIN: Hey, Shamim, how you feeling?

Oh, oh, yeah, yeah.

- Hi, everyone.
- WOMAN: Hi!

Hi, we're working on a
documentary about the case.

We haven't been able to
get any access to you.

Can you tell us like
why you're continuing

- to fight the case?
- Forgive me, forgive me.

You can't answer that question?

I-I just want to make sure
we get over to the court.

- Forgive me.
- Well, there's all of this new evidence

that shows that there are questions

about the validity of the conviction.

I mean, can you tell us
why you're fighting so hard

against this case getting a new trial?

If I can again, because
this is a pending matter,

we're gonna decline
to comment at this point.

- Thank you so much.
- Is it a personal issue for you?

Thank you so much.

RABIA: I don't know
what is motivating him.

What I've heard about him
is that he is very driven,

that he doesn't like to lose.

And he lost. I mean,
he lost the PCR hearing,

one of the biggest PCR hearings ever,

that had the attention
of the entire country,

and he lost it, so...

it could just be that, but I don't know.

NEWSMAN: Today Adnan Syed
could be one step

closer to getting a brand-new trial.

NEWSWOMAN: The State and Syed's attorney

were each given 30 minutes
to make their case.

Syed was not present, and they
couldn't call any witnesses.

Neither side's saying how
they think this will end

after spending an hour
inside the courthouse.

The point I'd like to make is

some things are bigger and more
important than technicalities.

We've got someone who is
unconstitutionally convicted,

who's sitting in jail right now,

and we're asking for
a new trial. Thank you.

NEWSWOMAN: Whether or not this will
be the final fight in the case

now comes down to
the court's next decision.

Judges today not giving a time frame

for when that might be.

The State prosecutors also
declining to comment tonight.

RABIA: I don't know if
they're going to give up, but,

you know, what I've heard

is that the Attorney General
has been telling people that

we are never... we are gonna
fight this tooth and nail.

So we are expecting the long haul.

But, I think, you know, the State
has every incentive to fight it,

because they know that going to trial
will be a real disaster for them.

I mean, what is Jay Wilds going
to bring to the table now?

Jay would not just be subpoenaed.
I mean, his re... you know, his...

He would be impeached

through his own criminal records

and prior statements
and all those things.

(JAY SPEAKING)

(JAY SPEAKS)

(CAMERA CLICKS, WHINES)

MARONEY: The theory is that this
car could not have been there

for as long as the police
claimed it would have been.

In my experiments,
we simulated the conditions

- during the time of interest.
- Like the weather conditions.

ERVIN: The rain, the light
that would have been able

to slowly get underneath the car

to keep some photosynthesis going.

I did a simulation of
how long would it take

for the grass to go from a vibrant green

to all the way dead.

MARONEY: So what does that experiment
tell you about this photo?

My experiments weren't conclusive

in terms of the length of time.

But then I started looking
more closely at the picture.

You can see that there's
a lot of leaf blades

of the grass that have been
pulled up into the treads.

With the rainfall that
occurred over those 46 days

and the freezing and thawing,
I'm very surprised

that there's still that much
detritus left on those tires.

Because as you get large rainstorms,

it would slowly wash this away.

The detritus looks fresh,
the path of where the tires

picked up the detritus is still fresh.

This could have been parked
there the day before.

Uh, it could have been parked
there a week ago.

MARONEY: Well, that's consistent with

what some of the neighbors told us,

which is that the cars,

when they were parked there
for more than a few days,

were often moved because
neighbors would call the police

and have them move the cars.

That's why I say, six weeks, no.

It's tough to put this much weight

- on turf analysis.
- Mm-hmm.

It's just such little data to work on.

AISHA PITTMAN: When someone
is convicted of something,

everything you think about them

ends up lining up to match that story.

I had known Adnan
since elementary school,

so it, like, just changed for me

my level of trust in people in general.

My whole thing at that point
was to start over,

and I wanted to get out so bad.

Like, and I never wanted to come back.

That's why I always admired Krista.

This is a bunch of letters that...

And cards that he has sent
me through the years.

I mean, he always used
to send me birthday cards

and he would call me from jail,
he would write me letters.

He, like, handmade this card for my son,

and the front of it says,
"I thought you could use a..."

and then you open it up, "A big hug."

And he signed it,
"Always eat your vegetables.

Don't ever believe they'll
make you like Bruce Lee."

(LAUGHS)

He does not have the life
that he imagined,

but he has a life.

(SHAMIM SPEAKING)

YUSUF: Yeah.

- It's okay, Mom.
- (MUMBLES INDISTINCTLY)

(SHAMIM SPEAKING)

(STAMMERS)

(ADNAN SPEAKING OVER PHONE)

My name is Thiru Vignarajah,

and I'm running for State's Attorney
against Marilyn Mosby.

OFFICER: I've worked tough
cases for 20 years.

Thiru always wanted police
to be at their best

and reminded us that
no one's above the law.

He's the best prosecutor
this city has ever seen.

We need him now more than ever.

THIRU: We're gonna forge the
most innovative, transparent,

progressive prosecutor's office
in the history of the country.

I probably haven't watched the
video since I left the campaign.

He's very good about
presenting a public persona.

I'm going to do a lot of
things very differently

than we have done them in the past.

We're not gonna pursue policies

of mass incarceration or zero tolerance.

We're not gonna rely on life
without parole for juveniles.

DILL: If you're going to run
as a progressive prosecutor,

taking on a case where you have
someone who was tried as a juvenile,

to say, no, this conviction has to stand

without any just concrete hard evidence,

I think is troubling.

RABIA: Thiru Vignarajah used to work in

the Maryland Attorney General's office,

so it kind of made sense when he first
put the prosecutor on the case,

but then he left
the Attorney General's office

and he went into private practice.

But the strange thing is, he
continues to prosecute Adnan's case.

(WOMAN SPEAKING)

I've never heard of it.

I think that what it comes down
to is he did for the publicity.

When he agreed to take the case,
he had already made the decision

that he was going
to be running for office.

I think he has his eyes on
greater political ambitions.

It's not about the law,
it's not about justice.

It's about making a name for himself.

New decision in the Adnan Syed case.

The Maryland Court
of Special Appeals upheld

a judge's ruling
to vacate his conviction.

(CROWD CHEERING)

NEWSMAN 2: Yesterday the Court
of Special Appeals ruled

to uphold the overturning
of the conviction.

Today, we talk with Thiru Vignarajah,

and some people may say
that prosecuting this case

where there are a lot of questions
about the original trial

isn't particularly progressive.

What does it say about what you
would do as State's Attorney?

I think being progressive means...

It means not taking cases, um, forward

if there's insufficient
evidence, but it also means

taking cases forward
if there is sufficient evidence

and not allowing the whims
of public sentiment

to drive a particular decision.

(KNOCKING)

(SPEAKING ARABIC)

How are you?

(BABY CRIES)

(LAUGHING): He's not scared.

- SYED: He looks good! (LAUGHS)
- RABIA: Yeah!

RABIA: That's Yaseen. He is...

He's eating the sweets that

- people brought for your mom.
- SHAMIM: Yeah.

(RABIA LAUGHS)

I mean, no, no. I haven't
read it line-by-line.

I'm gonna do that over the weekend.

It's 138 pages. I was like, oh my God!

So I was like just scrolling 'cause
I just wanted to see that one line,

whether it's affirmed or denied.

It was incredible.
I was just overwhelmed.

It was wonderful.

And then there were parts of
the opinion that were so strong,

and, uh, that were so favor...
It almost felt like they...

Like the court was making
an argument for his innocence.

I actually have...
Can I just read that portion?

It says, "The State's case
was weakest when it came

"to the time it theorized
that Syed killed Hae.

"Wilds' own testimony conflicted with

"the State's timeline of the murder.

"Moreover, there's no
eyewitness testimony,

"video surveillance, or confession

"of the actual murder,
no forensic evidence linking Syed

"to the act of strangling Hae
or even putting Hae

"in the trunk of her car.

"In short, at trial the State
adduced no direct evidence

"of the exact time that Hae was killed,

"the location where she was
killed, the acts of the killer

immediately before and after
Hae was strangled."

And of course, "the identity
of the person who killed Hae."

It is amazing.

To me, I mean, that's
such strong language.

It said that "There is
a reasonable probability"

that had Asia testified, it
would've cast "reasonable doubt"

in at least the mind of one juror.

Even before this decision was rendered,

the appellate lawyers, who are
experts in Maryland appeals,

have told us that if we went
on the Asia issue,

it's highly unlikely that the court
will take another appeal, so...

- (YASEEN FUSSES)
- ...we're in good shape.

- You sounded very excited.
- Really excited.

This is the first time
I've seen him, you know, like...

- Yeah.
- ...he's really happy, you know?

- So... (SPEAKS ARABIC)
- These are big wins.

What's happening with your health?

- Did you tell Adnan yet?
- SHAMIM: No, not yet.

- Auntie, you need to tell Adnan.
- I will.

- No, tell him.
- Everything... I will.

Everything's calm now.

- Everything's fine.
- (LAUGHS) If you just trust me.

He thinks, you know, that he's supposed
to be home to take care of me.

You don't want to wait
for something to go wrong.

Oh, no. No, I will make sure Adnan...

I will do it this time.

RABIA: I really do think by the
end of this year, he'll be home.

(ADNAN SPEAKING OVER PHONE)

JUSTIN: If the State were to offer
a plea deal, which they haven't,

you know, who knows if they will,

you know, we would consider it,

but he is innocent
and he maintains his innocence,

so... (SIGHS)

...you know, it would be tricky.

It would have to be an Alford plea,

which is a plea whereby

a defendant admits that
the State has certain evidence

and that they could potentially
persuade a jury of his guilt,

but that they don't
actually admit guilt.

You know, my job as a lawyer
is to explain all the options

and, quite frankly, to create options.

We're always interested in DNA testing.

There are objects
that have not been tested,

that were never tested.

It's a little tricky, though, because
DNA testing could be misleading.

It's not disputed that Adnan
was in contact with the victim.

He's her former boyfriend.

They remained friends
after the two split up.

So, you know, it wouldn't
be at all surprising

if his DNA were, you know, in her car.

So, we have been and will continue to
be really careful about DNA testing.

We are in the position

of controlling this case right now,

and the State is playing catch-up.

- JUSTIN: How you doing?
- Good, Justin, how you doing, man?

(INDISTINCT CHATTERING)

AMY: Okay, okay, I know
you're in a hurry.

So tell us what happened?

So I, yeah, you know...

I ran into Brian Frosh on the street.

I've never met him in person.

You know, without going
into any detail, we...

there have been some
informal talks going on.

He assured us that we would be
hearing from his office very soon.

Finally, we settled on four o'clock.

You know, I'm nervous.
I'm nervous about it.

Um, but I'm also cautiously optimistic.

They could express a serious desire

to resolve the case.

- (PHONE RINGING)
- Skidoodle, skidaddle.

- AMY: Okay. Okay.
- Give me a little peace.

(CLOCK TICKING)

Yeah, he did.

JUSTIN: Okay. Close the door.

You know,

- I'm limited in what I can say, Amy.
- Okay, I understand.

Um, I can tell you that

discussions with the State are ongoing.

Um, you know, the two sides
have not reached an agreement,

and, um, in light of that,

uh, the State is...
They're gonna file their appeal.

I think it's due on Tuesday.

Um...

But, yeah, so we... as of now,
um, there's no deal.

It's tough out there, you know?

These cases are just
so fucking hard to win.

By no means are
we in a position of weakness.

We won one appeal, and I'm confident

we'll win another appeal.

And, um, if they want
to go back to trial,

I'm confident that we'll win that trial.

But it's, it's, you know,
time is working against us.

You know, my client's
in prison right now,

and, um, that's something
that always weighs on you.

You know, they want to file an appeal?

Boom, that's... you know,
maybe a year and a half.

(AMY SPEAKING)

I suspect when you see
a brief filed on Tuesday,

his name's gonna be on it.

I personally find it troubling

that someone who's actively
running for public office,

and in the process is
actively seeking publicity,

is handling this very high-profile case.

I don't think it makes our
criminal justice system look good,

um, and it's concerning to me.

There are new developments this morning

in the case of Adnan Syed.

Maryland's Attorney General asking

the State's highest court
to deny him a new trial.

NEWSMAN: Now to a story we brought
you as breaking news yesterday:

one of the most heated races
in the primary elections

is going on in Baltimore City.
It's for the State's Attorney's office.

RABIA: Thiru is running
against two other candidates

for State's Attorney.

There's the incumbent,
who's Marilyn Mosby,

and she has not ever stated
a position on Adnan's case.

And then the other opponent
in this race is Ivan Bates,

and he publicly has stated
that he doesn't think

there's enough evidence
to convict Adnan.

Justice has to mean
that we get it right,

and if we get it wrong,
we hurry up and fix it.

And to me, this is a perfect example
where they just got it wrong.

RABIA: So if Ivan Bates wins,
that's an exoneration for Adnan.

That's not a plea deal,

that's not another trial,
it's not an acquittal.

It's a full... It's like you're done.
We're done with you.

But beyond that, he said he
would reopen the investigation.

That means all those leads
that nobody followed up on,

all that evidence that might
still exist somewhere...

I think we could actually find
out who killed Hae Min Lee.

It's a big deal.

So, we're at 19% reporting now,

Ivan Bates is holding steady at 30%.

I feel like he could win tonight.

Okay, okay, okay. Let me get some ice.

(RABIA SPEAKING ARABIC)

- SHAMIM: I think that's...
- YUSUF: That enough?

- Yeah. Want some?
- Yeah.

NEWSMAN: Of course, these three
candidates all Democrats.

There is no Republicans
running in this race,

so they will become the de
facto city State's Attorney.

YUSUF: Very soon, inshallah,
Adnan will be home with us.

(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

RABIA: Thiru's gotten 18% of the vote.

That's a lot, lot higher than I thought.

And Ivan is only at 30%,

but, okay, 56% of 295 precincts
are reporting

and it really depends on the precinct.

There are gonna be precincts where
Ivan sweeps it, right? I think.

(SIGHS)

NEWSMAN: Another very exciting
race here this evening.

It's been a heated race for
Baltimore City's State's Attorney

- These are the latest poll numbers.
- (RABIA SCOFFING)

It's over. I think, with 85%.

NEWSMAN: And just moments ago,
Marilyn Mosby was declared the winner,

beating out her two rivals.

Let's go now to Mike Hellgren,

live at Marilyn Mosby's
headquarters. Mike?

There has been
a festive atmosphere all night.

Marilyn Mosby was able to pull it off.

She will speak here any moment now,

and we will bring it
to you as it happens.

Back to you, Vic.

(SIGHS)

Oh God, it would've been
so neat and clean and easy.

He would've been sworn in January 2019,

right around the time
of the 20-year anniversary.

Adnan would've come home.

Mosby's never gonna
reopen the investigation,

and that, honestly, is one
thing that I really wanted.

Get matches for all that
evidence, you know?

DILL: Thiru spoke to me very
openly about the Adnan Syed case.

You know, he said, yes,

there is DNA evidence,
there's biological evidence.

And I said, well,
why haven't you tested it?

And his response was,
well, it's not our...

It's not our responsibility as
prosecutors to test the evidence.

If it's going to show
that Adnan's guilty

and that there's no question
about it, why not test it

and just put that evidence out there?

And yet, he had
no interest in doing that.

JUSTIN: Now that the State's
filed its second appeal,

it seems like a very logical
time to refocus on DNA testing.

I met last week

with Brian Frosh,
who's the Attorney General.

The State agreed they would
conduct more testing,

but we would have input in that

so that we can propose
things to be tested.

When the police obtain evidence,
everything gets logged,

and this is what the log looks like.

One of the items is described

as "left fingernail, right fingernail."

If Hae scratched at or clawed at

whoever committed the murder,

there might be DNA evidence
in her fingernails.

There were standard swabs
taken by the medical examiner.

There was a rope that was
found very close to the body.

Those can also be tested.

This is a report.

It indicates that a fingerprint or two

were taken off the rear-view
mirror in Hae's car.

The fingerprints were never
compared to anyone else.

They could show that
somebody had moved the car

other than Adnan or Jay or even Hae.

If the detectives were
really open-minded,

you would think they
would've tested that stuff.

But they had it in their mind
that Syed had done this,

and they set out to prove that.

BRINDLE-KHYM: We get so
focused on what happened

- after the body was discovered...
- Mm-hmm.

...that we have to kind of
go back and look at,

well, what clues might there
be where her body was found,

what condition it was it found in.

And I think Jan Gorniak,
um, from Fulton County

will be able to give us
some good thoughts.

- GORNIAK: Hi.
- Dr. Gorniak...

- You're a forensic pathologist.
- Yes, I am.

I was a Deputy Chief medical
examiner in Washington, D.C.,

and I was there for a couple
of years before I got offered

the job as the Chief medical
examiner in Atlanta.

I consider myself a death detective,

and I use the body
and some of the circumstances

to help me determine a diagnosis,

which is my cause and manner of death.

So I did look at some scene photographs,

autopsy photographs, the autopsy report.

MARONEY: One of the reasons
we're coming to you is to ask,

if from a scientific perspective
and based on your experience

and having read this, are there
any conclusions you can draw

that might help us
understand how she died.

I'm reading from the transcript
from the closing statements

- by the prosecution.
- Okay.

"There is no doubt this was murder.

"HML was strangled to death
on January 13th.

"She was buried in Leakin Park,
she was killed in her own car,

"and her head hits the window
as she was pushing to get away.

These are facts that we know
from the evidence in the case."

The hyoid bone was broken,
which is the U-shaped bone

that sits high up in your neck,

and that's one of the things
we look at in an autopsy

to determine the cause of death,
which is strangulation.

So I believe that
the cause is strangulation,

and the, the manner was homicide.

Would you expect to see anything else

in the medical examiner's
report to support this thesis?

Meaning that she was
strangled in the car

- and there was a struggle?
- Correct.

I would... Yes, I would, um,

especially in that... I'm just
picturing a sedan, um, and someone

- fighting for their life, literally.
- Mm-hmm.

So what's there? You have the
dash, you have the window.

You might see bruises
or contusions on the arm.

You might see broken fingernails,

which there were no broken fingernails.

So you often see multiple injuries

to multiple parts of the body
based on the struggle,

- and you do not see that in this case?
- That is correct.

BRINDLE-KHYM: But the statement in
the prosecution's closing argument

about her face being
up against the window,

is there any evidence
that would be consistent

with that kind of injury?

So in the autopsy report,
they talk about

right temporalis muscle hemorrhage,

but there's no description of
hemorrhage in the subgaleal tissue.

If there's supposedly enough force

to have hemorrhage in that muscle,

there should have been enough force to

have hemorrhage underneath the scalp.

So I don't think that's real.

I think it might be post-mortem changes.

Sometimes you can see lividity.

BRINDLE-KHYM: What is lividity?

GORNIAK: Lividity is the settling
of the blood after you die.

And so depending on the position,

it's gonna go towars
the dependent areas.

So if you're on your back, it's
going to shift towards your back.

It's where it's going to settle.

- So gravity's gonna pull it down.
- Correct.

But if there's anything
that's compressing it,

that's gonna be a blanched area.

So you can see the double
diamond-shaped mark on her shoulder.

This is lividity around it, right?

Something had to be pushed against
her and her being facedown.

It would take 8 to 12 hours for those

- patterns to actually become fixed.
- Correct.

What times does the State
argue that she was killed?

- Exactly what time?
- At 2:30 p.m.

MARONEY: She disappeared around
2:30 and then her body was buried

around 7:30, five, six hours later.

BRINDLE-KHYM: The lividity had
to be fixed in this range

sometime between
10:30 p.m. and 2:30 a.m.

- in the middle of the night...
- Correct.

...in order for it to leave any
kind of markings like that.

Correct.

Nothing that fits a
description of this shape

was found near her body.

Where we're going with this is that

it's possible that Hae's
body was somewhere else

and not in Leakin Park when
the police say that it was.

I believe that she had to be in a place

between 8 to 12 hours in order for
that mark to be stayed there.

MARONEY: Whatever happened to Hae,

the idea that she was buried
at 7:30 p.m. cannot be true.

It's very hard to think
one thing for 20 years...

And I'm open to new information...

But I can't think about it too much.

One of the things for me of, like,
why I wanted to sit down with you

is because I want to make sure
people remember,

like, this was a person
that lived and had a life,

and not just become so focused about,

you know, this is an interesting case.
Like, it's people's lives.

DEBBIE WARREN: If Adnan
is not the perpetrator,

she would be equally concerned about
his innocence coming to light

as she would be finding
the person who took her life.

But if he's not the perpetrator...

ANNOUNCER: 10-10 WOLB Baltimore
and WERQ-FM HD3 Baltimore.

Good afternoon and welcome
to another edition

of the DMV Daily Radio Show.

I'm your host Hassan Giordano,

Mr. Politics, back in the building.

Joining us today in
the studio, Rabia Chaudry,

an immigration attorney,
a New York Times bestselling author.

My first question would be, how
is the brother doin' in jail?

Well, he's doin' okay. I mean,
Adnan is like one of the most,

like, even-keeled people,
the kindest people.

He spends 90% of his time asking like,

hey, are you okay? You know?

If things were not okay, he wouldn't
even tell anybody he loves,

because he doesn't want to upset
people, but he's hanging in there.

And I will say this, when the conviction
was overturned the first time,

I was like, "Adnan you're coming
home!" I was like crying.

He's like, "Rabia, it's gonna
take some time." He's like...

He predicted then, it'll take
two to three more years.

If we win this final appeal,
which I think we will,

the State has to decide fairly soon

that we are actually gonna go to trial

or we're gonna let him go, drop charges,

or we're gonna give him a plea deal.

They can't wait forever
while they're deciding

whether or not they're
going to take this to trial.

Regardless, I mean, and I've
listened to everything,

I don't know a hundred percent that
he's not guilty. I wasn't there.

What I do know is that they
didn't prove he was guilty.

You know what I mean? And that's
what anyone is entitled to.

- Justin. Why don't you sit over there.
- JUSTIN: Hi.

Right here?

We've sort of been playing defense,

and we're now getting to the point
where a trial is within sight.

And we need to re-shift our focus

into figuring out
what actually happened.

We have more questions for you
than you have for us probably.

- Oh yeah?
- (CHUCKLING)

We feel like we've made a lot

- of progress in some areas...
- Right.

...and in some other questions,
we just continue

to kind of hit our head
against a brick wall.

There are people of interest,
there are suspects,

there are people who may know
more than they have let on.

Like, I mean, one of the most
fascinating examples of that

to me is, um, Alonzo Sellers,

who found the body,

was treated briefly as
an alternative suspect.

GUTIERREZ: You recall
the day that you found

the body in Leakin Park, don't you?

That was a pretty important
day for you, was it not?

- URICK: Objection!
- If you had explained that,

I would've known what
you were talking about.

For years people have wondered
if there's more to his story.

But in the last six months or so,

there's been a new theory
that we've been investigating,

which is what caused these,
what we're calling,

double-diamond impressions on Hae...
you know, her collarbone?

There has been some suggestion
that those impressions

were made by what's
called a concrete shoe,

and this is a tool that's put
on the bottom of a grinder,

which you would grind up concrete.

But the reason this is interesting
is that we know that Alonzo Sellers

worked in concrete for years
and years and years and years.

We have been trying to talk to Alonzo.
Luke and I knocked on his door.

We wanted to simply say, what do
you remember about this case?

He refused to talk to us.

I hadn't realized how close
he lives to Woodlawn.

It's a five-minute walk.

BRINDLE-KHYM: That's the school.

Hae vanished seemingly without a trace,

but we do know that where
she was going after school

was, according to witnesses,
she was going to meet with Don.

She was intending to pick up her cousin

directly after leaving
and then going to see Don.

Don Clinedinst is an enigma
to us, even to this day.

And the main reason
for that is, back at the time,

the police did not investigate
him with any level of depth.

As far as we know, he was at work
the day that Hae went missing.

When LensCrafters produced
their records to the State,

whoever prepared that at
LensCrafters went out of their way

to put it into bold that Anita,
who is Don's mother,

was the manager
at the Hunt Valley store.

We wanted to know more
about LensCrafters.

Of all the 40-some people
we ended up speaking with,

one of the most credible
and authoritative voices

on the subject was Thomas Precht.

He's worked there for 32 years.

One of the real takeaways
from Thomas Precht

was that, even the fact
that Don was working

at Hunt Valley on the Wednesday
was out of the norm.

On Wednesday, we see that Don is
not scheduled to work in the lab,

but we do see time entries
for him on his timecard

showing that he punched in
at 9:02 in the morning.

Only reason I can imagine
he was called in

is if Charles had called out sick.

Charles Curbin was the lab manager
of the Hunt Valley store.

BRINDLE-KHYM: And in fact, we have
Charles' timecard for that week.

He was working on Wednesday
and not out sick.

PRECHT: There's no reason
I can imagine that

there was two of them
in there on a Wednesday.

It just doesn't make any sense.

BRINDLE-KHYM: Is there a way

to create a phantom shift so-to-speak,
without leaving a trace?

If you were doing it in
real time, you could do it,

if you... if you had his password,

you could have been doing that.

There's another employee who worked
with Don at Hunt Valley in the lab.

I'm going to refer to him
by his initials "S.H.,"

and we've been trying to talk
to S.H. for almost three years.

He did come out of the woodwork
a couple of days ago.

So, our interest is piqued,
but to be clear,

we don't have any direct evidence
connecting Don to the crime,

and at this point, we haven't
been able to corroborate

S.H.'s story with others.

Unfortunately, the police
didn't end up speaking to Don

in person until February 4th,

which is three weeks
after Hae went missing.

If they had done so
closer to her disappearance,

their records might have shown
whether or not Don had

scratches and bandages on his hands.

MARONEY: And to the
extent that we cannot

get answers to those questions, there
may be other options, such as,

if Adnan gets a new trial for example,

there may be subpoena power that
can be used to get email records,

to get official records from
LensCrafters, for example.

One of the frustrating
things for all involved

is how little there is to go on, right?

- Yeah.
- I mean, the State

essentially used a single witness

and what has now been
essentially cast aside

as corroborating evidence
of the cell phone towers.

Can you remind us why
there was no DNA testing?

That was a decision made by the State.

The police worked backwards,
they had their guy,

um, and then they sought out
evidence that would prove his guilt.

They didn't have to look laterally,
they looked straight ahead.

Until now we haven't really
had the opportunity

to do DNA testing,
and I'm happy to address this.

There were 12 samples
that were tested for DNA.

Um...

Adnan's DNA was not found
in the fingernails,

it wasn't found on any sample
taken from inside of the car,

it wasn't found on any
sample from Hae's body.

Adnan's DNA was not found anywhere.

- Okay.
- Yeah.

It's not just that Adnan's
DNA wasn't identified

on any of these items,
it's that nobody else's

- DNA is also identifiable?
- Nobody else's. Right, right.

There's something called
longer wire and shorter wire.

I think those are pieces of
what were described as ropes

that were found very close...

I think, within like 18 inches
of where the body was.

There was a DNA profile
pulled from that,

but whoever that profile belongs to,

um, they're not in the system.

Well, what does that mean,
"in the system"?

When people are arrested
for certain types of crimes,

DNA samples are taken.

Police can match DNA that they recover

to other profiles in that database.

We requested testing of latents

that were pulled from the
rear-view mirror of Hae's car.

There are no hits in the system.

We submitted a list of police officers

who were involved in this case.

- Like the detectives? Okay.
- Including Ritz, MacGillivary,

um, any other name
we could come up with.

I think we submitted about ten in all,

and they have reported back
to us that there was no match.

So that means there's someone out
here who's not in the system...

MARONEY: Someone who's never
been arrested before.

Someone who's never been booked.

We know Alonzo's fingerprints
are likely in the system

but his DNA may not be because

it would not necessarily
have been collected

when he was arrested previously.

That doesn't mean
that we can rule him out.

Another alternative suspect
was Don Clinedinst.

We don't have any evidence
that he was ever arrested.

JUSTIN: I have no reason
to think his fingerprints

would be in the database.

MARONEY: Mm-hmm.

Okay.

JUSTIN: We would hope
for different results, but,

you know, I'm at the point now where
I view this as a potential trial.

This kind of stuff is to our advantage.

The fact that they took
additional objects

from this car where there was
allegedly this, you know,

physical confrontation
and this struggle,

um, and did not find any
of Adnan's DNA in it,

um, I think that helps us.

Um, I think it helps us show that

whoever was in that car,
it was not Adnan.

In a few minutes, I'm gonna go over
and meet with the Attorney General,

and I believe they're gonna make

some kind of offer to resolve the case.

KRISTA: I feel like the saddest
part is the fact that it took

Rabia being a thorn in people's sides

to get people to realize
that this needs another look.

You wonder how many people out
there have been convicted of,

or are sitting in jail
or awaiting trial,

that the evidence might not be there,

and they are away from their
families and missing the real world

for something that they didn't even do.

And I think that's the saddest part.

Um, and then, obviously, the other
saddest part is that Hae is gone,

and we still don't know
what happened to her.

And short of someone confessing
or coming forward and saying

this is what happened
and this is what I did,

we're probably never gonna know
what really happened to her.

And that's gotta leave a huge
hole in her family's heart.

How'd it go?

I don't know.

They want him to plead guilty,
no Alford plea,

um, and they want him to serve
four more years of prison.

Okay.

We're dealing with, um, very
smart people on the other end.

You know they're trying to figure out
what our breaking point is right?

As... as you would do
in any negotiation.

And, um...

You know, they've actually
done a pretty good job

to get us to a breaking point.

You know? Like...

I don't... I don't know whether he
would take it or not. He might.

I have a lot of respect for Frosh.

He understands that Adan's
almost served 20 years,

and I think he's sympathetic to that.

But on the other side, they're obviously

in touch with the family of the victim,

- and, um...
- Right.

...you know, they are pushing very hard.

The victim's family
is pushing very hard.

Um, they are doing everything
they can to keep Adnan in jail.

You know, you can sort
of see the turmoil...

- going on inside the Attorney General.
- Right.

I wonder where the four years
comes from, though.

Like, it comes out
to a total of 23 years,

which just seems so random.

When was he, um... how
long are the terms

for an Attorney General?
Are they four years?

I guess it would be right
after his next re-election,

but I... I don't think, I don't think
that has anything to do with it.

I mean, that... that would be...

you know...

(SIGHS)

We both agree that, um,

you know, we could proceed
with oral arguments

and then withdraw the appeal
sometime after that,

but if this is gonna get done,
it's gonna get done quickly.

Hey, Adnan.

I met with the State today,

and I have a great, great hesitancy
about discussing it over the phone.

He's got to make
a really difficult decision.

He could turn down this offer
and we could lose the case,

and he could spend the rest
of his life in prison.

And you can imagine how hard it would
be to live with that decision.

It's easy to say, well, why
would anyone ever plead guilty

to something that they didn't do?

But it literally happens every day.

Our criminal justice system is

not always fair,
and it's not always right.

You know, this-this is reality.

(ADNAN SPEAKING)

(RABIA SPEAKING)

(SPEAKS ARABIC)

(ADNAN SPEAKING OVER PHONE)

All right, what do you guys got?

I think the arguments
went very well for us.

If and when we prevail, then we
will be set in for a new trial.

We expect a ruling, at the
latest, to be by August 2019.

So at that point, the State has
no more state appeals left.

Are they gonna go to the U.S.
Supreme Court? I doubt it.

So then they'll have to decide
what they want to do.

REPORTER: What do you
want to tell your son

if you could speak to him
right now after watching this?

(INDISTINCT CHATTERING)

(SIGHS)

("TIME IS THE KILLER"
BY RAIN PHOENIX PLAYING)

♪ Everybody's dying ♪

♪ To know ♪

♪ Where we go ♪

♪ When we die ♪

♪ Everybody's crying ♪

♪ For those ♪

♪ Who go ♪

♪ Before their time ♪

♪ Time is the killer ♪

♪ Time is the killer ♪

♪ Time ♪

♪ Everybody's lying ♪

♪ When we say... ♪