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Why do we do the things we do?
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What really makes us tick?
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How do our minds work?
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For centuries,
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these questions were largely left to philosophers and theologians.
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Then, about 100 years ago, a new science began to shine
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a bright light on the inner workings of the mind.
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It was called "experimental psychology".
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In this series, I'm tracing the history of how this "new science"
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revealed things about ourselves
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that were surprising and often profoundly shocking.
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The experiment requires that we continue.
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But he might be dead in there!
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In this film, I'm investigating the inventive, sometimes barbaric ways
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psychology has been used to control and manipulate people.
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How does it feel, good or bad?
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- Good.
- Good?
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It's a science which strikes
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at the heart of what we hold most dear - our free will.
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I don't think people like having their behaviour tinkered with,
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I don't think they like to be told what to do.
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The pursuit of mind control led to some truly horrific experiments,
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and left many casualties in its wake.
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I only remember that I forget.
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Everything.
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But investigating the forces that shape our minds and our behaviour
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has also led to profound insights into how the brain works.
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Ever since I was a medical student,
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I have been fascinated by psychology,
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by what it has revealed about ourselves
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and by how far some researchers have been prepared to go.
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I'm on my way to Cardiff and I'm feeling apprehensive.
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I'm about to take a class A hallucinogenic drug.
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In the past, this drug and others like it were used in experiments
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which were designed with a very sinister purpose -
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to achieve total mind control.
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The drug I'm going to be given is psilocybin,
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the active ingredient of magic mushrooms.
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Normally, taking psilocybin would be illegal.
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- Michael.
- Hello, nice to see you.
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But in this case, Professor David Nutt
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and his team from Imperial College are doing a scientific study,
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the first of its kind in the UK.
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- So, am I going to enjoy this?
- I think so.
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Most people do, most people get something positive from it.
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We've had no bad reactions,
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so don't worry about what you're going to feel.
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I think you may enjoy it.
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It's a bit odd, the idea of having your consciousness played with.
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You do it all the time, don't you?
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- Every time you go out and get drunk.
- OK.
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The team are expecting psilocybin to have a significant impact on me.
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So I'm put through physical and psychological tests.
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- Would you describe yourself as a spiritual person?
- A bit.
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- And would you describe yourself as a mystical person?
- No.
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So I'm going to prepare the drug now.
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- See that tiny amount in there? Can you see it?
- Just.
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That's 3.5 milligrams, so you get two milligrams.
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- So that's going to be it?
- That's it, but it does quite a lot.
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Surprisingly enough,
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David Nutt believes that by changing the brain,
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psilocybin's mind-bending properties
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may help psychiatric disorders like depression.
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Before they test it on patients, the team want to find out
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exactly how it acts on normal brains like mine.
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It can be quite traumatic.
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The last volunteer we had had quite a dramatic response.
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He said it was probably the strangest experience of his life.
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- OK.
- He said that, um, his whole sense of self dissolved,
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and he only existed as a concept.
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MICHAEL LAUGHS
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OK, I'm not sure I wish to only exist as a concept. We shall see.
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I am starting to wonder what sort of trip I'm going to have.
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I'm placed in a brain scanner
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so the team can map in detail how my brain reacts to psilocybin.
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Then the drug is injected.
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The result? Well, it would turn out
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to be one of the strangest and most unusual experiences of my life.
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Today, drugs are at the cutting edge of mind control.
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But down the years, scientists have experimented with more unusual ways
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to manipulate our brains.
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There is a long and murky history behind scientific attempts
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to control emotions, behaviour, and decision-making.
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I think some of the most interesting stuff can be traced
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to an accidental discovery by a Russian more than 100 years ago.
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In the 1890s, biologist Ivan Pavlov was studying dogs,
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many of which had been snatched off the streets of St Petersburg.
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His early experiments seemed to have nothing to do with mind control.
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He was studying reflexes in animals.
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Pavlov was interested in saliva, and in particular,
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how much saliva is produced when we eat different sorts of foods.
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Now, he studied it in dogs.
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He operated on his dogs so he could accurately measure
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the saliva they produced when they saw food.
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To Pavlov's immense surprise,
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he discovered that the dogs would salivate
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not just when they got the food,
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but when they simply saw the men in white coats
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who brought them the food.
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This was utterly unexpected.
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Pavlov realised that his dogs had made an association
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between the lab coat and the arrival of food.
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It was this association, rather than the food itself,
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that produced the saliva reflex.
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Pavlov wanted to train other responses.
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As he did so, his experiments became increasingly brutal.
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In this experiment, the beat of the metronome
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is combined with an electric shock.
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BUZZING
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The electric shock is given a number of times,
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until the beat of the metronome alone
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is enough to cause the dog to jump.
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The Pavlovian response is one of the most famous discoveries
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in the history of psychology.
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What is less well known
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is that Pavlov didn't confine himself to dogs.
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Disturbingly, he was also involved in experiments on children.
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According to Pavlov,
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our reflexes start being conditioned from the moment we're born.
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As we progress through life,
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more and more of these conditioned reflexes
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are implanted in our brains, building up complex behaviours.
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And once you understand the basics
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of how those behaviours are laid down,
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well, perhaps you can begin to also control them.
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BABY CRIES
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Pavlov's discoveries are fundamental to mind control,
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but they are limited.
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They only condition behaviours that already exist.
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By the time Pavlov died in the mid-1930s,
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new techniques had been developed in America
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that promised far more sophisticated mind manipulation.
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These methods also held the enticing possibility
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of being used on a grand scale.
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The man behind these developments was so controversial
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that he was hung in effigy.
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The vice president described him as "most dangerous".
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And the FBI kept a detailed file on him.
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I'm here to meet Deborah Buzan, daughter of BF Skinner,
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one of the most famous and infamous scientists
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in the history of psychology.
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- Hello.
- Hello.
- Michael Mosley.
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Nice to meet you. Come in.
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He's receiving an honorary degree at Harvard here.
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- He was terribly proud of that.
- Uh-huh.
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And here he is with a rat. SHE LAUGHS
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This, again, is the machine behind with the gazillion wires and things.
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It would all be done very differently today.
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That's my father putting the pigeon
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into what became known as the Skinner Box.
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The key to Skinner's research was the so-called Skinner Box.
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He used it to create new behaviour.
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In this Skinner Box, a pigeon is given a reward
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every time it pecks the word "peck",
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or turns full circle when it sees the word "turn" appear.
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The pigeon has learnt
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that when it performs these actions, it gets food.
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So it continues to do them.
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As it does so, this new behaviour is reinforced.
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This pigeon experiment, and many like it, demonstrated graphically
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that carefully-timed rewards
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can reinforce, change or even create new behaviours.
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Deborah is using her father's technique
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to train her cats to play the piano.
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Lola's not exactly a virtuoso,
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but she has learnt that a little tinkle earns a piece of chicken.
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I like the fact that she changes notes.
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Oh, that was good.
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Teaching animals cute tricks is hardly controversial,
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but Skinner had defined a precise and powerful way
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of modifying behaviour and said it should be used on humans.
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He wanted to apply
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his scientific methods of psychological manipulation
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to whole populations.
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He was really, essentially, telling people how to behave,
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how to act, maybe how to create a world
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in which people would act differently
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from the way they already acted.
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And I don't think people like to have their behaviour tinkered with.
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I don't think they like to be told what to do.
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Skinner believed that many of the problems of modern society
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could be improved if a ruling elite
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were to use his methods to control behaviour.
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Using them would reduce violence and improve productivity.
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Skinner's psychologically-controlled society brushed aside
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an individual's role in determining and shaping their own destiny.
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He saw belief in free will as unscientific nonsense.
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These views polarised opinion.
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On 3rd May, 1972, the same day that 6000 students cheered him on
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in Michigan, he was hung in effigy at Indiana University.
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He very much wanted to get across his message. I don't know
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if he expected such a reception, which was not all good, of course.
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But, certainly, it made people sit up and think.
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Skinner's utopia never materialised.
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But his methods of behaviour control are now widely used
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in everyday life.
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They have been particularly influential
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in the world of child development,
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where the use of well-targeted rewards to encourage good behaviour
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has become an established parenting technique.
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And for some children, Skinner's methods have proved life-changing.
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I've tried applying some of Skinner's techniques
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to my own kids in a slightly sort of haphazard fashion.
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What I've never done is,
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I've never seen it applied systematically
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and in an organised way.
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And I'm hoping to see that in here.
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In the Jigsaw School for Autistic Children in Surrey,
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the teachers use a system based on Skinner's principles
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called Applied Behaviour Analysis.
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We're going to go and watch Rohit working.
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- Take a seat.
- Thank you.
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Rohit started with us last September,
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so he's almost done a full academic year with us.
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He's actually behaving beautifully this morning,
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but within his repertoire,
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he can assault staff, he likes to pull hair.
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Eight-year-old Rohit is working through a series of learning tasks.
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Each task is broken down into small parts.
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He gets a token for completing each part of the task.
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Point to a cube. That's a cube. Good boy, give me high-five.
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Well done. You can take off a token, that was lovely work.
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Every single correct response here is being reinforced by the teacher.
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Our main focus is,
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if we're constantly praising and reinforcing appropriate behaviour,
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we will see an increase in that appropriate behaviour.
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- It is a mushroom.
- It is a mushroom.
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Good boy, you're trying really hard. Good job, Mister.
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The key is to consistently reward the behaviours and responses
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they want to encourage.
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Rohit is working towards the bigger prize of time in the soft play area.
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So they get a combination of reinforcers, if you like,
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so it's a mixture of praise, pat on the back, and a point
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- which they know leads to a prize?
- Yes.
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Rohit eventually gets his prize - playtime in the soft room.
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But more importantly, he'd sat for over an hour
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learning picture-word associations,
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something that would have been impossible just a year ago.
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Are you a fan of Skinner, then?
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I am a fan of Skinner, yes.
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It is really heart-warming watching the way that Skinner's ideas
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of positive reinforcement are being put into practice
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in such a sort of practical way.
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And I also think that without Skinner,
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these kids' lives would be an awful lot bleaker.
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Skinner believed passionately that behaviour modification
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could and should be used to make the world a better place.
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'A false testimony, really,
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'which I had fabricated to keep them happy.'
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But, in the 1950s, when he was developing his ideas,
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research into mind control had already taken a more sinister turn,
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fuelled by the ruthless needs of war.
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By then, America was fighting the communists in Korea.
254
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As the conflict raged, a sinister new weapon emerged.
255
00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:31,320
'I did sign a confession, relating to germ warfare.
256
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,200
'How can I tell them these things?'
257
00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:35,480
It first came to light
258
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:39,360
when the North Koreans paraded their American prisoners of war.
259
00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,840
'How can I go back and face my family?
260
00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:50,040
'In a civilised world, how can I tell them these things?
261
00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:53,280
'That I am a criminal in the eyes of humanity?
262
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,000
'They are my flesh and blood.'
263
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,160
These images really disturbed people,
264
00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:02,600
American soldiers denouncing American aggression.
265
00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,800
How had the North Koreans done it?
266
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,680
How had they, in such a short period of time,
267
00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,880
managed to convert them to the communist cause?
268
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,040
'How can I go back and face my family?
269
00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,360
'They are my flesh and blood.
270
00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:20,000
'..and absurd. I did sign a confession...'
271
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,800
This was a terrifying new weapon
272
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,400
that threatened the freedom of the West.
273
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,960
And they gave this weapon a name.
274
00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:30,720
Brainwashing.
275
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,280
'People who used to be in the asylum...'
276
00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:35,600
A huge effort was made
277
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:39,480
to try and uncover the secrets of the communist brainwashers.
278
00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:45,520
In Britain, an ambitious psychiatrist soon became convinced
279
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:47,080
he knew how it was done.
280
00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:53,920
His name was William Sargant, and his radical approach to psychiatry
281
00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,640
inspired both loyalty and loathing.
282
00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:02,840
He once said of himself, "Some people say I'm a wonderful doctor,
283
00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:06,120
"others that I am the work of the devil."
284
00:17:06,120 --> 00:17:09,120
Sargant had a theory on brainwashing,
285
00:17:09,120 --> 00:17:13,760
and it was based on the work of none other than Ivan Pavlov.
286
00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,320
Sargant had read about one of Pavlov's lesser-known experiments,
287
00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,280
in which he'd tried to remove his dogs' conditioning.
288
00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:23,520
Typically, Pavlov had not gone for half measures.
289
00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,400
He had induced nervous breakdowns in his dogs,
290
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,280
and found that this rapidly and dramatically removed
291
00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:33,840
the conditioned behaviour he had so painstakingly created.
292
00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,800
Pavlov concluded that, during the breakdown,
293
00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,480
established connections in the dogs' brains were lost.
294
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,400
When the brain rewired itself,
295
00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:48,640
it made new connections, leading to dramatic changes in behaviour.
296
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:52,760
Sargant thought that Pavlov's work
297
00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:55,240
was central to understanding brainwashing,
298
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,680
how somebody could change their core beliefs
299
00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:59,320
in a very short period of time.
300
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:04,640
Just as with the dogs, Sargant believed that when a human brain
301
00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,440
is broken down, connections are lost,
302
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:09,680
which then need to be rebuilt.
303
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:15,680
He decided to use this insight as the basis of a radical treatment
304
00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:17,280
for mentally ill patients.
305
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:21,880
His aim was simple -
306
00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:26,200
to break down and then reprogramme their troubled minds.
307
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:32,720
Mary Thornton was 21 when she was admitted under Sargant's care.
308
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:38,480
My memories are like snapshots.
309
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:44,800
One is of the electrodes being attached to the side of my head,
310
00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,640
being given a general anaesthetic,
311
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:51,360
seeing an image of myself in the mirror one day,
312
00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:55,040
seeing a strange face looking back at myself.
313
00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:02,960
And being really, really frightened that I would never get out.
314
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,040
40 years on, Mary has returned
315
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:16,480
to the Royal Waterloo Hospital in London, once part of St Thomas'.
316
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:23,720
This... It... One of these rooms is the room I recovered in.
317
00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:25,920
And it was on the left-hand side.
318
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,760
And it could have been that room.
319
00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:32,760
It could have been a room exactly like that.
320
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,840
Mary's parents had admitted her to the hospital
321
00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,920
following a series of rows over a new boyfriend.
322
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,920
I understood that I was there
323
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:46,240
to be treated for an acute anxiety state.
324
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:52,960
And I was told that I would be given sleep treatment to help my, erm...
325
00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,480
..head to have a nice, long rest.
326
00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:01,760
Mary, and other patients, became unwitting guinea pigs,
327
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,720
testing Sargant's more radical ideas.
328
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:09,880
Every available method is used here, all at the same time.
329
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,920
Sargant believed it was essential to use a wide range of approaches
330
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:18,960
if he was to break down established patterns of thinking.
331
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,520
He began with a process of "modified narcosis".
332
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:27,360
Patients were put into a medicated sleep for up to three months.
333
00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:31,080
The patients are woken three times a day for feeding,
334
00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,080
and to check on whether they're getting better.
335
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,560
They were then given copious amounts of drugs,
336
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,680
combined with bouts of electric shock therapy, or ECT.
337
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:45,640
- OK? Go.
- 110 volts for three seconds
338
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,560
through the frontal lobes of the brain.
339
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:54,080
Sargant was convinced he had to use all the tools available to him
340
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,360
if he was to wipe the slate clean.
341
00:20:56,360 --> 00:20:58,440
He had also suffered from depression,
342
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,760
and knew it could be life-threatening,
343
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,880
so the risks were worth it.
344
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,800
In all my 30 years, I've tried never to use any method
345
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:08,600
that I wouldn't use on myself.
346
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:09,840
All that matters is,
347
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,560
don't do unto others what you wouldn't have done to yourself.
348
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,000
For many patients like Mary,
349
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:23,520
this barrage of treatments had a dramatic effect on their minds.
350
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:25,920
I only remember that I forget.
351
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:29,600
Everything.
352
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:33,920
That's what ECT made you do.
353
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,720
In this building, I saw her maybe four times,
354
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,280
I visited maybe four times.
355
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:47,600
And she progressively got less aware of who I was.
356
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:52,080
On one occasion, she didn't know me from Adam.
357
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:58,520
After three months at the Royal Waterloo, Mary was discharged.
358
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:00,960
Sargant's belief that her brain, shaken and shocked,
359
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:05,960
would reassemble itself, free from the shackles of her past, was wrong.
360
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:12,040
When I left, I had great big black holes in my memory.
361
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:16,640
I was sent to convalesce to my brother in Yorkshire.
362
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,160
A week or so into my stay,
363
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,080
I suddenly remembered that I had a boyfriend,
364
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:26,440
and I found his telephone number. And I phoned him up.
365
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:30,360
And he came to meet me in London.
366
00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:32,080
Lucky for me!
367
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,640
And we've been together ever since.
368
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,360
We had her on two grams.
369
00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:42,880
- That's 2,000 milligrams.
- Yes.
370
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,240
Sargant had shown that with drugs and ECT,
371
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,440
he could disrupt and destroy memories.
372
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,600
Yet with patients like Mary,
373
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,680
he failed to break patterns of behaviour
374
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,480
and alter personal beliefs.
375
00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,880
The human mind had proved remarkably resilient to change.
376
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,640
And without these new treatments, we did have psychotherapy
377
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:04,720
and psychoanalysis...
378
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,280
Sargant's theories on brainwashing were flawed,
379
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,400
and rejected by many British psychiatrists.
380
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,400
'How can I go back and face my family?'
381
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,120
But across the Atlantic, in the United States, a frantic search
382
00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:22,760
to learn the secrets of communist mind control continued unabated.
383
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,000
'They're my flesh and blood.'
384
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:29,920
In response to the threat of brainwashing, the CIA had set up
385
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:34,400
their own secret operation, code name MK-ULTRA.
386
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:39,600
MK-ULTRA employed many of the leading scientists of the day.
387
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:44,720
From 1953, they embarked on a series of increasingly bizarre experiments
388
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,360
designed to replicate the communist brainwashing techniques.
389
00:23:48,360 --> 00:23:52,520
They subjected people to sensory deprivation,
390
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,680
total isolation, electric shocks.
391
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,640
One research area that seemed promising was drugs,
392
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,360
and one class of drug stood out from all the rest.
393
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,480
They seemed to change the world.
394
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:14,360
They distorted vision, and they warped sound.
395
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,560
They created vivid hallucinations.
396
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,760
Hallucinogenic drugs like LSD and psilocybin had only recently
397
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,840
been discovered, and were the subject of intense research.
398
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,440
They held out the enticing possibility
399
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,840
of controlling another person's mind.
400
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:43,560
Perhaps they could also change your core beliefs.
401
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:49,160
The top-secret operatives from MK-ULTRA experimented on themselves,
402
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,480
their colleagues and on unsuspecting members of the public.
403
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,240
And the American military
404
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,960
also attempted to harness their mind-bending powers.
405
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:03,280
- How do you feel?
- I could run 100 miles right now.
406
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,880
- Is that right?
- That's right.
- Pretty pepped up, huh?
407
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:10,440
But, while the drugs were certainly mind-altering,
408
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,160
they were useless as a form of brainwashing.
409
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,800
The effects were too temporary, too unpredictable
410
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,200
to reliably alter an individual.
411
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,520
The huge effort to produce
412
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:25,720
a foolproof method of brainwashing had failed.
413
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,080
And following the end of the Korean War,
414
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,400
it emerged that communist techniques were also flawed.
415
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,760
Many of the soldiers who had denounced America while in captivity
416
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:39,040
rediscovered their patriotism when they got home.
417
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:44,320
Brainwashing turned out to be an illusory weapon of war.
418
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,600
For many years, there was diminished scientific interest
419
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,920
in the mind-altering properties of hallucinogenic drugs.
420
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,000
Now, half a century on, things are changing.
421
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:01,480
As part of an experiment, I have been injected with psilocybin,
422
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,920
the active component of magic mushrooms.
423
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:09,040
Professor Nutt and his team look on as the drug races through my system.
424
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:14,960
They want to understand exactly how the drug works on my brain.
425
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,760
Ten on that scale is extremely intense.
426
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:20,640
How anxious he feels now...
427
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,520
He'll be hallucinating, certainly.
428
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,320
He might be seeing colours and swirling patterns.
429
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,880
Probably some bodily feelings as well.
430
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,800
His body might feel slightly different.
431
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,520
Maybe a kind of floating sensation.
432
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:39,400
Inside the machine, I was convinced I could levitate,
433
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,760
make the walls of the scanner dissolve
434
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,560
and fly up to the stars at supersonic speed.
435
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,480
It was all rather beautiful.
436
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,640
His sense of time has slowed down.
437
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:57,760
OK, Michael, we're all finished, I'll come and get you out.
438
00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,160
Thank you.
439
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,640
'Although the effects of psilocybin had largely worn off,
440
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,920
'I had an uncontrollable urge to talk. And talk.'
441
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,160
That was very strange, I have to say, because I thought,
442
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:11,760
"Whoa!" and then, "Whoo!"
443
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,720
It was really sort of, whoosh, take-off.
444
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:18,080
'..And talk. And talk.'
445
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,320
It took me back to when I was eight years old
446
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:22,880
and I used to rub my eyeballs
447
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,440
in an attempt to have religious experiences.
448
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,200
You felt it, when it came,
449
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,640
it was just like being in a sort of Star Trek thing,
450
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,120
going into hyperspace, and "whoo".
451
00:27:32,120 --> 00:27:35,280
As soon as you start thinking even the slightest bad thoughts,
452
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,240
you think, "This is really, really...
453
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:38,680
"I don't want to go there."
454
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,160
And actually, dragging yourself back from it is very difficult.
455
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,120
I'm still feeling very strange.
456
00:27:44,120 --> 00:27:47,040
But you want to go out and share it with everyone.
457
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,520
You want to go and say, "Hello!" and talk about it.
458
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,360
My results will be merged with scans from other volunteers
459
00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:59,720
to identify the precise areas inside the brain where the drug is active.
460
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:04,400
And you see there are essentially three big, blue blobs.
461
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,920
What blue means is that
462
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,080
- the activity of the brain has shut down.
- Switched off!
463
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,640
When we went into this study, we thought that this drug
464
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,240
would activate, certainly different parts of the brain to those,
465
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,120
but we don't find any activation anywhere.
466
00:28:20,120 --> 00:28:22,760
All we find are reductions in blood flow.
467
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,160
David Nutt believes that the areas of the brain
468
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:27,840
that are being switched off
469
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,640
are critical to the experience I've just had.
470
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,360
The blobs in the middle
471
00:28:32,360 --> 00:28:36,600
are the part of the brain that tells us who and what we are.
472
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,800
When these were dampened down, I was released from everyday constraints.
473
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,360
You were able to break free
474
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,040
from the normal constraints of what you are -
475
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:49,200
"I'm a father, I've got to go home in an hour and a half, I've got to make this programme."
476
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,680
The fact that it dampens activity in these areas
477
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:52,800
may provide clues
478
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,160
as to how psilocybin could be used to treat depression.
479
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,440
One of the things we think is that,
480
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:03,240
if in conditions like depression or obsessive compulsive disorder,
481
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:09,400
where people get locked into a mindset which is maladaptive,
482
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,520
- these regions may be overactive.
- Ah.
483
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,160
Maybe dampening those down
484
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,200
will help people move into another mindset
485
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,800
which might be better and healthier.
486
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,840
If you wanted to shift somebody who's profoundly depressed
487
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,880
out of that mindset, something like this might conceivably...
488
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,200
It's conceivable. We need to do the experiments.
489
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,000
That's part of the rationale.
490
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,920
It helps take you from this rigid, motoric process
491
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,840
of thinking, into something that may be more positive.
492
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:46,080
'The idea that you could use a psychedelic drug like psilocybin
493
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,840
'to treat depression is certainly surprising.
494
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,560
'If it works, one advantage is, it works fast.'
495
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,560
You changed immediately. Whether it would produce immediate changes
496
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,640
into a depressed person, we don't know.
497
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,280
If it did, it would be wonderful, wouldn't it?
498
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:04,240
If particularly, you could hold on to those and maintain them.
499
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,840
It may turn out that hallucinogenic drugs
500
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,240
do have a part to play in mind control.
501
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:16,520
As a therapeutic tool, to help patients think more positively,
502
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,680
it's a far cry from the ambitions of would-be brainwashers.
503
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,200
'"How is it possible?" I ask myself.'
504
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:30,000
In the 1960s, a new discovery would uncover a far more pervasive
505
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,280
and effective way of controlling people.
506
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:38,560
It was far more subtle and almost impossible to escape.
507
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,400
But he might be dead in there!
508
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,920
The new approach emphasised the importance of social pressure,
509
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,840
of the social context you find yourself in.
510
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:50,040
To find out more,
511
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:54,000
psychologists devised elaborate human experiments,
512
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,360
sometimes with shocking results.
513
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,160
The son of Jewish immigrants from Eastern Europe,
514
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:06,520
Stanley Milgram wanted
515
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:10,880
to understand why so many people took part in the perpetration
516
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:12,600
of terrible war crimes.
517
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,040
Milgram was curious to find out
518
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,160
what drove German soldiers to participate in the Holocaust.
519
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,040
How is it possible, I ask myself,
520
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,840
that ordinary people, courteous and decent in everyday life,
521
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,120
can act callously, inhumanely,
522
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,000
without any limitations of conscience?
523
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,800
Milgram described the moment he conceived his experience
524
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:42,840
as "incandescent".
525
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,120
It was beautifully, almost fiendishly designed
526
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,000
to reveal uncomfortable flaws about human nature.
527
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,440
It made a huge impact worldwide.
528
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:56,120
I remember, as a teenager, reading about it and later watching footage.
529
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,520
It had an enormous impact on me.
530
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,080
It influenced my later decision to train as a doctor
531
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,480
with the intention of becoming a psychiatrist.
532
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:08,720
It's nearly 50 years since the original experiment and today,
533
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,640
I'm fortunate enough to be meeting one of the few remaining survivors.
534
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,480
- Good morning.
- Morning.
535
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,320
- Hello, Michael Mosley.
- Hi, Michael.
536
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,880
- Bill Menold. Nice to meet you.
- Thank you very much.
537
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:26,160
'In 1962, Bill Menold had recently left the army and was working in New Haven.'
538
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,800
I happened to see an ad in the New Haven Register
539
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,440
and it said "memory and learning experiment".
540
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,280
They were going to pay you 4. I thought,
541
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,200
"Why wouldn't I do this?"
542
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,520
I've got some footage here from Yale University.
543
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:47,480
'Bill's participation in the experiment wasn't filmed, but other volunteers were.'
544
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:51,240
- This guy here...
- He was the pupil.
545
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,800
This is basically the... experimenter.
546
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,600
- The experimenter.
- The doctor.
547
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,080
The experiment involved a teacher and a learner,
548
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,160
who were given a simple set of memory tasks.
549
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,040
If the learner got the answers wrong,
550
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:14,760
the teacher had to give him electric shocks, which steadily increased.
551
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,520
Were you surprised when they talked about electric shocks?
552
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,720
I wasn't aghast or anything,
553
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:24,040
but I was, "Oh, electric shock, what a novel way to do it.
554
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,360
"Who knows what they'll think of next?"
555
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,000
What Bill and the other volunteers weren't told
556
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:31,520
was that the electric shocks
557
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,120
were fake and that both the experimenter and the learner
558
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:36,640
were, in fact, actors.
559
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:42,280
The real purpose of the experiment was to see how many electric shocks
560
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,160
the volunteers like Bill would administer.
561
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,840
It's very convincing, isn't it?
562
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,640
Oh, it is Academy Award nomination.
563
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,080
'Bill and the other volunteers were asked to increase the voltage
564
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,880
'every time the learner got an answer wrong.'
565
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:03,720
You're now getting a shock of 75 volts.
566
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:04,800
Ow!
567
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,400
180 volts.
568
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:08,640
Ow!
569
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,920
Just how far can you go on this thing?
570
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,520
Despite the apparent pain they were inflicting,
571
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,440
most continued to increase the shocks.
572
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:21,880
Incorrect.
573
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,120
150 volts.
574
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:26,280
Ah!
575
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,040
If you're sitting in that chair
576
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:30,960
with this stuff going on,
577
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:37,920
and the pressure that you're under, it's very hard to think clearly.
578
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:39,880
I'm up to 180 volts!
579
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,680
Please continue, teacher.
580
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,160
Neil, you're going to get a shock, 180 volts.
581
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,200
- SWITCH CLICKS
- Ow!
582
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,560
Who's going to take the responsibility
583
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:52,960
if anything happens to that gentleman?
584
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,120
I'm responsible for anything that happens here.
585
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,080
Continue, please.
586
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,200
Milgram asked colleagues beforehand how many people they thought
587
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,720
would administer the lethal 450-volt shock.
588
00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:08,760
Most said about 1%, and those would probably be psychopaths.
589
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,240
195 volts. Dance!
590
00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:15,760
Ow! Let me out of here!
591
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,360
Then they really cranked it up.
592
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,720
You were talking about traumatic experiences.
593
00:35:22,720 --> 00:35:27,000
I've never had anything before or since that was like that.
594
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,240
Start with blue, please, at the top of the page.
595
00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:31,560
Continue, please, teacher.
596
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,280
Did you at any point think that perhaps you'd killed him?
597
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,200
Yes.
598
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,600
When he stopped responding.
599
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,640
The experiment requires that we continue. Go on, please.
600
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,080
Don't the man's health mean anything?
601
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:49,760
- Whether the learner likes it or not...
- He might be dead in there!
602
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:51,720
I shut off my moral...
603
00:35:53,240 --> 00:35:55,040
compass.
604
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:56,080
Continue, please.
605
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,120
435 volts.
606
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,760
Once you make the decision...
607
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,120
you've made your decision.
608
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,720
Let's get this show on the road and get it over with.
609
00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:13,320
The answer is "horse".
610
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,320
450 volts.
611
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:18,160
Next word.
612
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,480
Bill, like two thirds of the volunteers,
613
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,000
gave the lethal electric shock.
614
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:30,480
I thought Bill was very honest,
615
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,400
particularly when he started to talk about that moment
616
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,520
when he abandoned his moral compass
617
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,760
and he handed over responsibility for his actions to the experimenter.
618
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,600
I guess that's what Milgram demonstrated.
619
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,400
We'd like to believe we're autonomous creatures,
620
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,000
that we follow some sort of moral principles.
621
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,880
But what Milgram showed is that, in the right circumstances,
622
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:56,040
you can persuade someone to do almost anything.
623
00:36:56,040 --> 00:37:00,120
According to Milgram, Bill Menold and the other participants
624
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,760
who administered lethal shocks were not psychopaths.
625
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,920
They had simply demonstrated
626
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,040
a striking willingness to obey authority.
627
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,240
- Wrong.
- It was this willingness to obey authority
628
00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:15,280
that shaped and controlled their behaviour.
629
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,240
- SWITCH CLICKS
- Ah!
630
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,800
Milgram said it didn't matter if you were German or American,
631
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,720
the power of authority remained the same.
632
00:37:31,240 --> 00:37:34,640
Milgram's experiments catapulted him to worldwide fame,
633
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:39,400
and he used his numerous television appearances to spread his ideas
634
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:40,880
to a wider audience.
635
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,000
Now, one of the illusions about human behaviour
636
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,800
is that it stems entirely from personality or character.
637
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,040
But social psychology shows us that often,
638
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:51,320
behaviour is dominated
639
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,480
by the social roles we're asked to play.
640
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:56,480
Revealing the pervasive
641
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,040
and sometimes malign influence of authority
642
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:03,880
chimed well with the anti-authority sentiments of the late 1960s.
643
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:10,880
But Milgram's own motivation was not mistrust of authority.
644
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:15,080
He wanted to understand WHY authority has such a hold over us.
645
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,440
To do this, he took to the streets.
646
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,280
- Yes, sir, where to?
- 33 West 42nd.
647
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,800
Milgram started by pointing out how, unquestioningly,
648
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:31,640
we obey authority figures in a whole range of different situations.
649
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,040
In this setting, I allow things to be done to me
650
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,520
that I wouldn't allow in any other context.
651
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:42,240
The dentist is about to put his fist and electric drill into my mouth.
652
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:45,840
Open, please.
653
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:48,320
In this setting,
654
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:53,800
I willingly expose my throat to a man with a razor blade.
655
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:59,200
What he did next would throw new light on why we're so obedient.
656
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,800
Milgram wanted to see how people would behave
657
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,840
in a situation where there was no obvious authority.
658
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,600
How would you react if a perfect stranger came up to you
659
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,040
on the train and said, "I'd like your seat, please?"
660
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,760
Well, this is exactly what Milgram and his students did
661
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:17,320
on the New York subway.
662
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,240
Now, if you ask a New Yorker,
663
00:39:19,240 --> 00:39:23,640
would he give up his seat to a man who gives no reason for asking,
664
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:27,520
he'd say, "Never." But what would he do? We photographed what happened.
665
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,880
Excuse me, ma'am, may I have your seat, please?
666
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:32,600
- All right.
- Thank you.
667
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:36,080
Excuse me, sir, may I have your seat, please?
668
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,160
- I guess so.
- Thank you very much.
669
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,000
But would it work today?
670
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:47,680
I decided to repeat his experiment in a London shopping centre.
671
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,840
Excuse me, could I have that seat, please?
672
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,160
- Huh?
- Could I have that seat, please?
673
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,640
- Yeah?
- Could I sit there?
- Why?
674
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:57,160
I'd like to sit down.
675
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,720
If you gave me a reason...
676
00:39:59,720 --> 00:40:04,160
- Excuse me, could I have that seat, please?
- Yeah, sure.
677
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:05,680
Thank you very much.
678
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:13,880
- Excuse me, could I have your seat, please?
- Yeah, sure.
679
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:15,400
Thank you very much.
680
00:40:19,240 --> 00:40:22,400
I was surprised by how many people complied
681
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,680
with my totally unreasonable request - about half.
682
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,000
Excuse me, could I have that seat please?
683
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:30,240
- Yeah.
- OK, thank you.
684
00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:35,400
Excuse me, could I sit there, please?
685
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,560
- Why do you want to sit here?
- I want to sit down.
- Pardon?
686
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:44,640
- I want to sit down.
- Why can't you sit here?
- Can I sit there?
687
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,600
- Is that a yes or a no?
- No.
688
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:52,600
But what really surprised me
689
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:56,560
was just how difficult I personally found the whole experience.
690
00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:02,040
My real feeling at this moment is one of just profound relief
691
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:03,360
that it's done.
692
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:07,240
I felt really uncomfortable throughout the whole thing.
693
00:41:07,240 --> 00:41:09,800
This is also what Milgram felt.
694
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:13,320
I stood in front of a passenger and I was about to say,
695
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,880
"Excuse me, sir, may I have your seat?"
696
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,240
I found something very interesting. There was an enormous inhibition.
697
00:41:19,240 --> 00:41:22,400
The words wouldn't come out. I simply couldn't utter them.
698
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,560
There was a terrible constraint against saying this simple phrase.
699
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:29,120
Milgram concluded that feeling socially awkward
700
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:33,400
and embarrassed plays an important role in governing our behaviour.
701
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,720
We don't like breaking the social rules,
702
00:41:35,720 --> 00:41:39,040
whether it's asking for someone's seat for no good reason,
703
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,160
or disobeying the instruction of somebody
704
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:42,960
whose authority we have accepted.
705
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,040
In ordinary everyday situations,
706
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,320
there's an implicit set of rules as to who's in charge.
707
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,800
If we violate these rules, it leads to the disruption of behaviour,
708
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,920
to embarrassment, awkwardness, to a kind of social chaos.
709
00:41:54,920 --> 00:42:00,200
Ordinarily, we accept the submissive role that the occasion requires.
710
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:04,560
According to Milgram,
711
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:09,920
compliance in society and obedience to authority is necessary.
712
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:11,960
Our social organisation depends on it.
713
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,280
If we're to have a society,
714
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:19,200
we must have members of society willing to obey its laws.
715
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,040
It's not simply a question
716
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,040
of whether or not we want to be controlled.
717
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:27,280
According to Milgram, our social organisation demands it.
718
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:39,600
As a means of control, there's no doubt that social pressure
719
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,360
is ever-present and highly effective.
720
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:48,640
But social pressure, like drugs or behaviour modification,
721
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:50,560
or even Pavlovian training,
722
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,800
wasn't able to deliver total mind control.
723
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:57,120
There was, however, still one group of scientists who believed
724
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:01,280
they could control behaviour and emotions with pinpoint accuracy.
725
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:08,360
To do so, they would have to develop techniques
726
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,120
to go directly into the brain.
727
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,080
CRACKLING
728
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,040
Are you sleepy or awake or what?
729
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:18,960
I'm awake now.
730
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:23,520
The origins of this approach lie in a series of bizarre experiments
731
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:27,280
conducted by an ambitious doctor in the American Deep South.
732
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,360
Psychiatrist Robert Heath was a maverick and a pioneer.
733
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:37,720
From the early 1950s onwards, in New Orleans, he used electrodes
734
00:43:37,720 --> 00:43:42,000
to stimulate and also to map out his patients' brains.
735
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:44,760
DOORBELL RINGS
736
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,160
- John! Hello, buddy.
- Welcome, good to see you.
737
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,040
John Goethe and James Eaton
738
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:53,280
worked with Heath on many of his more ambitious experiments.
739
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:55,560
He wanted to be a discoverer.
740
00:43:55,560 --> 00:44:01,160
- He wanted to find a new path.
- But there was no question
741
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,240
that there was, um...
742
00:44:03,240 --> 00:44:06,040
a light side and a dark side.
743
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:07,600
I really loved the guy,
744
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:09,200
but if you love someone,
745
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:10,960
and you're very close to them,
746
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:12,720
you see all sorts of warts.
747
00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:14,480
He had plenty of warts.
748
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,840
Heath was not afraid of controversy.
749
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,400
He passionately believed you had to experiment on humans
750
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,640
to make truly significant medical breakthroughs.
751
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:33,080
He conducted his most controversial research in the state of Louisiana.
752
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:38,080
At the time, the consent process was not as rigorous as it is now.
753
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,440
His goal was ambitious - to see if he could alter behaviour
754
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,520
by sticking electrodes into people's brains.
755
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:53,720
Heath was inspired by experiments that had been done on rats.
756
00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:58,440
Electrodes were implanted directly into areas of the rat's brain
757
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:02,440
believed to be responsible for pleasure.
758
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:07,360
When the rat pressed the lever, it stimulated these areas.
759
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,440
The scientists found that this process
760
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:11,920
could dramatically change the rat's normal behaviour.
761
00:45:14,240 --> 00:45:15,920
BUZZING
762
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,960
This rat is prepared to run across an electrified floor
763
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:22,320
to reach the lever, press it, and get a pleasure kick.
764
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:32,960
Heath decided to take the extreme step of trying this on humans.
765
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,320
How do you feel?
766
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:41,240
It's...like coming on.
767
00:45:41,240 --> 00:45:42,920
Hmm?
768
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,520
- Like coming on.
- Like something coming on?
769
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:47,040
What do you mean?
770
00:45:49,240 --> 00:45:52,080
'The depth electrode procedure'
771
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:57,640
involved placing these very thin wires through the skull
772
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,600
and into precisely located areas
773
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:04,960
thought to be important in the regulation of emotion.
774
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:08,360
This idea that the emotions are deep in the temporal lobes,
775
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:10,360
rather than being on the surface,
776
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:12,520
was an idea shared by many,
777
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:17,600
but he's the one who actually put a needle, put an electrode in,
778
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:19,880
in there and turned on the juice.
779
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,600
Can you keep pushing this yourself?
780
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,160
- Yes, sir.
- All right, push this button.
781
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,080
'They had these little boxes'
782
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:31,120
and they had the electrodes in their head.
783
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:35,560
Whenever they felt they needed a little goose or something,
784
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,680
again, I'm simplifying it, but they could press it.
785
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:40,400
All right, push this button.
786
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:42,280
You know how to work this.
787
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,360
Heath's early patients were schizophrenics,
788
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,840
severe epileptics and depressives.
789
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,800
I feel like something is coming on.
790
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,600
- All right. Does it feel? How does it feel? Good or bad?
- Good.
791
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:56,520
- Good?
- Yes, sir.
792
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:57,560
Like the rats,
793
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:01,800
these human patients were able to stimulate their own brains
794
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:05,400
and use this pleasurable sensation to alleviate their symptoms.
795
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:14,080
- Well, I think it's... I think it's somewhat of a sexy button.
- Yeah?
796
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:17,840
Encouraged by his results, Heath began to explore ways of using
797
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:21,440
deep brain stimulation to create new behaviours.
798
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:27,040
His most infamous experiment was on a 24-year-old man
799
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:31,360
with a long history of depression who had never had sex with a woman.
800
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:36,600
He approached Heath and asked him to change him,
801
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:38,120
to change his behaviour,
802
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:42,160
because he was gay and he wanted to become straight.
803
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:45,920
At the time, being gay was regarded as a psychiatric illness,
804
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:46,960
so Heath agreed.
805
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:51,080
He wasn't the first to do this. Other people had tried,
806
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,480
but nobody had done so using electrical stimulation.
807
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:57,880
Heath implanted a series of electrodes
808
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,560
into the pleasure regions of the man's brain.
809
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,200
Then he was shown some soft porn.
810
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:09,760
The idea was to link, in the man's mind, the pleasure he was getting
811
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:11,840
from the electrical stimulation
812
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:16,160
with the heterosexual behaviour he was watching on the screen.
813
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:21,000
At the end of the three-week period,
814
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:25,320
the man reported that he had growing sexual interest in women.
815
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:31,600
So Heath decided to go to the next stage. Now, this really is bizarre.
816
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:35,040
What he did is, he hired a prostitute for 50,
817
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:38,120
a woman he called a "lady of the night".
818
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:41,560
Her job was to have sex with a gay man
819
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:44,000
with electrodes sticking out of his head.
820
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,360
The wires led to recording devices in the next room,
821
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:49,960
where the psychiatrists were keeping a record
822
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,080
of what was going on inside his skull.
823
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:58,080
Well, astonishingly enough, I mean, I'm absolutely gobsmacked,
824
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:01,920
but astonishingly enough, according to Heath,
825
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:04,520
intercourse was successful.
826
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:07,960
In fact, the man said he'd had so much fun,
827
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,240
got so much pleasure out of it,
828
00:49:10,240 --> 00:49:14,080
he would like to go and do it again and again.
829
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:16,040
Unlikely as it sounds,
830
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:20,840
Heath's use of electrode stimulation seemed to have worked.
831
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:22,960
But his patient's desire to become heterosexual
832
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:24,760
wasn't entirely fulfilled.
833
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:29,320
The young man went off and he did actually begin
834
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:32,480
an affair with a married woman that lasted for ten months.
835
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:35,640
But he also continued to have sex with men.
836
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:37,560
So a rather mixed outcome,
837
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:41,320
and Heath himself never tried to repeat the experiment.
838
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:46,680
- Huh?
- Ooh...
- You all right?
- I don't like that.
839
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:48,200
You don't like that?
840
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:50,160
Heath's methods were primitive,
841
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:54,040
but they did pave the way for some important medical developments.
842
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:02,000
Today, the technique of deep brain stimulation has been refined
843
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,680
and improved, and is now used to treat a range of conditions.
844
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:13,360
It has been particularly successful for sufferers of Parkinson's.
845
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,040
Electrodes are placed in the areas of the brain
846
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:20,520
that control movement and help to reduce symptoms.
847
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:26,960
However, implanting electrodes involves major surgery
848
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,400
and the risks are considerable.
849
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:32,760
Although it is a huge improvement
850
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:36,520
on what went before, electrical stimulation is still fairly crude.
851
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:39,320
Even the most carefully positioned of electrodes
852
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:42,080
stimulates a large area of brain matter,
853
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,040
consisting of thousands of cells.
854
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:47,680
But just recently, the technology has moved on.
855
00:50:49,240 --> 00:50:51,160
Here at Oxford University,
856
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:55,400
they have found new ways to manipulate the brain
857
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:59,640
and control behaviour using a technique called optogenetics.
858
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:04,440
With optogenetics, scientists can control the brain
859
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:05,720
simply using light.
860
00:51:05,720 --> 00:51:09,760
I'm here to meet neuroscientist Gero Miesenbock,
861
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:13,760
who's been refining his technique on flies.
862
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:15,680
- Hello, there.
- Hello.
863
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:17,120
- Michael Mosley.
- Gero Miesenbock.
864
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:19,480
I gather you are lord of the flies?
865
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:21,240
In some circles, I am, yes.
866
00:51:21,240 --> 00:51:24,280
And how many flies do you have here?
867
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:28,160
We haven't really counted them, but we have thousands of, erm,
868
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:29,600
vials like these.
869
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,920
Each vial has maybe 50-100 flies in them, so you do the math.
870
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:35,840
It's probably millions buzzing around somewhere.
871
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:38,520
- Millions. You are lord of the flies!
- Yeah.
872
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,600
Miesenbock earned his nickname
873
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:47,600
through his ability to control and manipulate the choices flies make.
874
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:52,680
We've come quite far in controlling not only simple motor acts
875
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:57,760
of the animals, but actually their psychology in rather profound ways.
876
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:00,400
I don't think of flies as having a psychology!
877
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:03,000
You just haven't worked with them for long enough.
878
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:04,960
Can we see it in action?
879
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:07,000
- Yeah, let's take a look.
- OK.
880
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:10,720
Controlling a fly's psychology is possible.
881
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:14,640
Because of the 200,000 or so cells that make up their brains,
882
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:19,000
he has managed to isolate a few that are responsible for learning.
883
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,920
We did find a particular small group of just 12 cells
884
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:25,080
lying in the central brain.
885
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:28,840
These 12 cells don't dictate behaviour per se.
886
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:31,240
They dictate whether behaviour should be changed.
887
00:52:31,240 --> 00:52:34,000
And dictating whether behaviour should be changed
888
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:35,640
is a crucial part of learning.
889
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:39,120
Miesenbock likens the role of this group of cells
890
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:41,120
to that of a nagging critic.
891
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:43,040
Critic is, if you wish,
892
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:47,320
the structure that holds the key to intelligence.
893
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:50,840
It's the structure that decides whether something is good or bad,
894
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:52,800
whether it's right or wrong.
895
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,480
Sort of the brain's version of the Catholic Church,
896
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:57,600
if you're an Austrian like me,
897
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:02,200
or the superego if you're Freudian or your mother if you're Jewish.
898
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:06,400
Miesenbock has genetically engineered his flies
899
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:10,840
so that he can switch on this negative nagging critical voice
900
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:13,280
simply by exposing them to blue light.
901
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,480
When the blue light comes on, the cells are activated
902
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:18,280
and the flies start to learn.
903
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:22,480
The flies are taught to dislike whatever is in their surroundings
904
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:27,640
when the blue light is on. This is then stored as a bad memory.
905
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:28,840
In this experiment,
906
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:32,040
the flies are taught to dislike the smell of liquorice.
907
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:35,720
Each of these chambers contains just one fly.
908
00:53:35,720 --> 00:53:39,560
- Right.
- And the fly walks up and down the length of the chamber.
909
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:43,080
And, um, the left and the right half of the chamber
910
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:45,360
are each filled with a different odour.
911
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:50,080
One of these smells a bit like, as they say, a tennis shoe in July.
912
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:53,720
- Right.
- And the other one a little bit like liquorice.
- Liquorice, OK.
913
00:53:53,720 --> 00:53:59,160
You can see that, before our optogenetic intervention,
914
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:02,840
the fly just explores the chamber in its entirety.
915
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,440
They start off not caring one way or the other
916
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:08,680
- and you're going to manipulate their choice?
- Exactly.
917
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:12,240
When the blue light is switched on,
918
00:54:12,240 --> 00:54:15,160
the chamber is flooded with the smell of liquorice.
919
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:19,360
OK, now, the effect of this light is to turn on the 12 cells
920
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:21,520
of the critic in the fly's brain.
921
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:25,160
- And that then leads to the implantation of memory.
- Right.
922
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:28,600
When the blue light switches off,
923
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:31,880
the chamber returns to its original smells.
924
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:34,760
Tennis shoes on the left, liquorice on the right.
925
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:38,080
So now, because of that blue light,
926
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:41,040
the fly has come to associate the smell of liquorice
927
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:42,640
with something it doesn't like,
928
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:45,640
something it needs to avoid, something it should avoid. Right.
929
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:49,200
What you see is, it's backtracking already. It made a mistake.
930
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,400
It stepped into the odour of liquorice,
931
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:52,920
which is on the right here.
932
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:56,360
Now it's back in tennis shoe, which is on the left.
933
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:58,200
And you see, whenever it reaches
934
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:01,080
the interface between the two odours, it recoils.
935
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:06,240
You can almost see how it goes, "Eugh, this is awful!"
936
00:55:06,240 --> 00:55:08,440
- And turns around.
- It's very impressive.
937
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:10,560
The ability of optogenetics
938
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:13,680
to pinpoint and act on very specific cells
939
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:17,320
in the brain suggests it could be used in the future
940
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:19,720
for modifying human behaviour.
941
00:55:19,720 --> 00:55:23,600
I think there's medical benefits in many possible directions,
942
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:26,680
the neurons that matter for a particular brain function,
943
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:28,440
be it appetite control,
944
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:32,480
mood, anxiety, sleep and wakefulness, attention, you name it.
945
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:34,920
But there are some major obstacles
946
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,880
to optogenetically controlling humans.
947
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:41,040
I think it's not something that's around the corner
948
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:43,640
in the next few years, because, remember,
949
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:44,840
for optogenetics to work,
950
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:47,120
you would have to genetically modify the brain...
951
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:50,400
Indeed, which we are some way off doing at the moment.
952
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:55,000
Exactly. A fly normally doesn't mind, but I certainly would
953
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:58,640
if you wanted to implant light receptors into my brain.
954
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:05,840
Now, that really was quite astonishing,
955
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:07,840
the idea that you can control
956
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:11,040
really quite sophisticated behaviour in a fly
957
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:12,760
just by manipulating 12 neurons.
958
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:15,160
It's astonishing and also slightly worrying,
959
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:18,640
because it makes you wonder whether the same is true of humans.
960
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:22,440
But I think that because human brains are so much bigger
961
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:25,080
and more complex than insect brains,
962
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:27,240
it is going to be a long time,
963
00:56:27,240 --> 00:56:31,480
if ever, before technology like that is applied to us.
964
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:40,800
I've no doubt the technology used to study the brain
965
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:42,800
will continue to advance...
966
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:48,840
And that in doing so, we will make giant strides in understanding
967
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:50,960
the workings of our own minds.
968
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:54,680
But what I find reassuring is that,
969
00:56:54,680 --> 00:56:57,880
although many people have tried to manipulate our minds,
970
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:03,000
the human brain has so far proved to be too complex to finely control,
971
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:06,200
our personalities too resilient.
972
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:11,840
Down the years, the brain has been pushed around,
973
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:14,720
probed, drugged and electrified.
974
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:20,200
But it remains impressively hard to control,
975
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:22,640
and I find that very comforting.
82206
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