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[line trilling]
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- Hello?
5
00:00:21,331 --> 00:00:23,023
- Hi, this is Joslyn Jensen.
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I'm calling about
the documentary film.
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- I'm sorry.
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What--what film?
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[inquisitive music]
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- I'm making a documentary
about Zach Avery.
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And I was hoping
that Zach would talk to me
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so he could tell his side
of the story for the film.
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- All right, no.
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I can just tell you
right off the bat, no.
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Absolutely not.
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- The FBI arrested actor
Zachary Joseph Horwitz,
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accused of convincing
several investment firms
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00:00:51,775 --> 00:00:54,261
to give him nearly a quarter
of a billion dollars.
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00:00:54,364 --> 00:00:56,125
- Today I'm very excited
to be interviewing Zach Avery.
20
00:00:56,228 --> 00:00:57,436
Zach, hello.
- Hello.
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How are you?
- Very exciting.
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You've had a real big jump
in your career.
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- I took a kind of not
straight path into acting.
24
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Could I have done this?
Why didn't I do that?
25
00:01:06,169 --> 00:01:07,584
Why didn't I see it coming?
26
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But this is my dream.
27
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This is what I've wanted
to do forever.
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- I don't want
to be bothering you.
29
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I want to understand because
I've spoken to another person
30
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who told me that you would.
31
00:01:16,455 --> 00:01:18,181
And now you're not going to.
32
00:01:18,285 --> 00:01:20,114
- The FBI says Zach Horwitz,
33
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who goes by the screen name,
Zach Avery,
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used the victim's money
to repay earlier investors
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and to fund his lifestyle.
36
00:01:27,846 --> 00:01:29,537
- Yeah, that's basically it.
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00:01:29,641 --> 00:01:31,815
Do a little entrepreneur stuff
on the side as well,
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but mainly--mainly acting.
39
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- Who is this guy?
Where did he come from?
40
00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:37,062
And how could he
possibly have done
41
00:01:37,166 --> 00:01:39,823
something this outlandish?
42
00:01:39,927 --> 00:01:41,239
- And who the fuck
are you, Ronnie?
43
00:01:41,342 --> 00:01:42,688
- I could tell
from the beginning
44
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that it was really
going to be a juicy one,
45
00:01:44,725 --> 00:01:45,588
that it had everything.
46
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It was Hollywood.
47
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It was a Ponzi scheme.
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It was a huge amount of money.
49
00:01:50,282 --> 00:01:52,664
- More than $700 million
50
00:01:52,767 --> 00:01:55,701
for completely phony
investment deals.
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00:01:55,805 --> 00:01:57,324
- That's a staggering
amount of money
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that was moving around,
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all for the purchase
and resale
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of movie rights
that weren't real.
55
00:02:02,570 --> 00:02:03,675
- Turn around.
56
00:02:03,778 --> 00:02:05,194
Get down on your knees.
57
00:02:05,297 --> 00:02:06,678
- We can just tell the truth.
58
00:02:06,781 --> 00:02:08,852
We can just tell the cops
what happened.
59
00:02:08,956 --> 00:02:11,959
- We have this treasure trove
of clips of Zach's acting,
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00:02:12,062 --> 00:02:13,961
which we can actually use
to mirror
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00:02:14,064 --> 00:02:15,411
what's playing out
in real life.
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00:02:15,514 --> 00:02:18,310
There are times watching this
when his lines are like
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he's speaking directly
to the story we're telling.
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It's almost like
he's answering for his crimes.
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00:02:24,661 --> 00:02:27,354
- Same shit,
different toilet, officer.
66
00:02:27,457 --> 00:02:29,356
How the fuck are you?
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00:02:29,459 --> 00:02:31,323
- I don't think anyone
really knows who he is.
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00:02:31,427 --> 00:02:34,361
Maybe even he doesn't even
really know who he is.
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00:02:34,464 --> 00:02:36,639
He might just be playing
multiple characters,
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00:02:36,742 --> 00:02:38,503
even to this day.
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00:02:38,606 --> 00:02:41,299
- I can't ask a pathological
liar for his life story
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and expect him to tell me
the truth, right?
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Especially in a movie
that's all about scamming,
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00:02:47,132 --> 00:02:49,859
as we try to figure out
how he did it.
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- How is somebody able
to concoct a scheme this large
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00:02:52,413 --> 00:02:54,553
and make it seem legitimate
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00:02:54,657 --> 00:02:56,279
and, you know,
actually carry it on
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00:02:56,383 --> 00:02:57,970
for the number of years
that he did,
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00:02:58,074 --> 00:02:59,144
all by himself?
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00:02:59,248 --> 00:03:01,767
- Our secret, okay?
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00:03:11,363 --> 00:03:13,469
- Needs to get
a little curvier.
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00:03:13,572 --> 00:03:15,091
- So this is
the real Zach Avery,
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in his real office,
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00:03:16,403 --> 00:03:18,612
where he does
a lot of his interviews.
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00:03:18,715 --> 00:03:20,269
Yeah, and then
this is our re-creation,
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00:03:20,372 --> 00:03:22,788
which is pretty good.
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00:03:22,892 --> 00:03:24,652
I want to have reenactments.
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00:03:24,756 --> 00:03:28,553
So we're going to hire
an actor to play Zach Avery.
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00:03:29,761 --> 00:03:31,487
We're not really looking
for an impression.
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00:03:31,590 --> 00:03:33,213
But I just want
to see these guys
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embody Zach in an interview.
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00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:36,940
This one.
- All right.
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00:03:37,044 --> 00:03:38,977
- It looks like you're
so guilty of financial crime.
94
00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:40,012
- No, that's okay.
95
00:03:40,116 --> 00:03:41,531
I might be.
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00:03:41,635 --> 00:03:42,636
- Speeding?
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00:03:42,739 --> 00:03:44,258
- Camera speeding.
- All right.
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00:03:44,362 --> 00:03:46,226
Slate in.
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00:03:46,329 --> 00:03:48,504
- Scene one, take one, mark.
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00:03:48,607 --> 00:03:50,333
- I'll be auditioning
for Zach Avery.
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00:03:50,437 --> 00:03:52,197
- Reading for Zach Avery.
- Zach Avery.
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00:03:52,301 --> 00:03:53,750
- Zach Avery.
- Zach Avery.
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- I'm auditioning today
for the role of Zach Avery.
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- All right.
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00:03:57,996 --> 00:04:00,516
Have you done any research
on the real Zach Avery at all?
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00:04:00,619 --> 00:04:01,689
- Every morning,
I read the paper.
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00:04:01,793 --> 00:04:03,450
I saw that.
That was a crazy story.
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00:04:03,553 --> 00:04:04,658
- So I think
it's kind of interesting
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00:04:04,761 --> 00:04:06,522
that he's able to, like,
be that charming
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00:04:06,625 --> 00:04:08,593
and that, like,
convincing of a person.
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00:04:08,696 --> 00:04:10,422
- I would never do something
like this, personally.
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00:04:10,526 --> 00:04:12,390
But I could see
how the desperation
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00:04:12,493 --> 00:04:13,943
would take hold.
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00:04:14,046 --> 00:04:15,255
- This industry is--
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it's all about
fake it till you make it.
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00:04:16,980 --> 00:04:18,982
And everyone will tell you,
if you're not confident,
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pretend to be.
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00:04:20,639 --> 00:04:23,124
You know, put on that--
that faรงade or that mask
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so that others will, you know,
feed off your comfort.
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00:04:26,956 --> 00:04:28,406
- Do you know
when we're gonna find out,
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00:04:28,509 --> 00:04:30,270
you know, who gets the role?
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00:04:30,373 --> 00:04:32,168
I have a vacation coming up.
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00:04:32,272 --> 00:04:34,343
So I'm just wondering.
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00:04:40,314 --> 00:04:42,765
- Look at the eyes.
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00:04:42,868 --> 00:04:44,042
Hmm.
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00:04:44,145 --> 00:04:46,044
Yeah, this is him.
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00:04:48,529 --> 00:04:51,429
- Here was an actor
nobody had ever heard of,
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00:04:51,532 --> 00:04:54,294
who'd been in some
pretty bad movies.
129
00:04:54,397 --> 00:04:56,848
And he was accused
of pulling off
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00:04:56,951 --> 00:05:00,817
an unbelievably audacious
Ponzi scheme.
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00:05:00,921 --> 00:05:02,785
It was like, what?
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00:05:02,888 --> 00:05:06,271
- There's this idea
that Hollywood is a place
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00:05:06,375 --> 00:05:08,653
of immense wealth
and people are beautiful
134
00:05:08,756 --> 00:05:10,862
and it's a glamorous
environment.
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00:05:10,965 --> 00:05:13,692
And I think that can have
an allure to it
136
00:05:13,796 --> 00:05:17,213
that people want to be
associated with.
137
00:05:17,317 --> 00:05:19,560
- And when they can't
do it legitimately,
138
00:05:19,664 --> 00:05:21,424
some people in Hollywood
end up moving
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00:05:21,528 --> 00:05:23,357
toward criminal activity.
140
00:05:23,461 --> 00:05:25,842
And Ponzi schemes are
one of those things.
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00:05:27,603 --> 00:05:30,364
- It's not usually as hard
as it was in this case
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00:05:30,468 --> 00:05:34,472
to sort of figure out
where a con man came from.
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00:05:34,575 --> 00:05:37,509
There's kind of
a mad scientist quality
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00:05:37,613 --> 00:05:39,546
to what he was doing.
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So I just set out right away
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00:05:42,307 --> 00:05:46,863
to kind of reconstruct
the whole scam.
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00:05:46,967 --> 00:05:49,038
- As I mentioned at the top,
we're fellow Midwesterners.
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- Yes, definitely.
- From the land of the corn.
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00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:52,455
- Yeah, exactly.
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00:05:52,559 --> 00:05:54,388
Good old Indiana.
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00:05:54,492 --> 00:05:57,702
- He grew up
in Fort Wayne, Indiana.
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00:05:57,805 --> 00:06:00,808
In terms of who he was
as a kid and what he was like,
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00:06:00,912 --> 00:06:03,777
it was really hard
to figure all of that out.
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00:06:07,367 --> 00:06:10,266
[upbeat pop music]
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โช
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00:06:23,831 --> 00:06:25,971
- So tell me about this place.
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[laughter]
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- Generations
of Fort Wayne youth
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have passed through here.
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00:06:30,666 --> 00:06:32,978
Zach definitely would have
come here.
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He moved to town when
he was in his early teens.
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What are the odds that you'll
go to school with somebody
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who ends up making news
for, you know,
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00:06:43,368 --> 00:06:45,335
masterminding this
multimillion dollar
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Ponzi scheme?
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00:06:49,512 --> 00:06:50,824
- So what was your reaction
167
00:06:50,927 --> 00:06:53,585
when you heard about
the Ponzi scheme?
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00:06:53,689 --> 00:06:55,656
Like, you knew
he was a Hollywood guy?
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00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:57,969
- No. I had no idea.
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00:06:58,072 --> 00:07:00,178
You know, he never acted
in high school.
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00:07:00,281 --> 00:07:03,595
Like, I did plays
all four years of high school.
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00:07:03,699 --> 00:07:07,599
And Zach and I never
crossed paths once.
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00:07:07,703 --> 00:07:10,153
- So he was more of, like,
a jock type of guy...
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00:07:10,257 --> 00:07:13,191
- Absolutely.
- At that time.
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00:07:13,294 --> 00:07:15,573
- When I read all the coverage
about what he did,
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00:07:15,676 --> 00:07:17,402
like, it just occurred to me,
you know,
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00:07:17,506 --> 00:07:19,646
this guy is a supervillain.
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00:07:19,749 --> 00:07:22,959
And classmates and I were all
there for his origin story.
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00:07:23,063 --> 00:07:25,203
- Yeah. Wow.
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00:07:28,862 --> 00:07:30,173
So it seems like
what you're telling me
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00:07:30,277 --> 00:07:32,417
is that high school, where--
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00:07:32,521 --> 00:07:33,936
it was like
the glory days for Zach.
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00:07:34,039 --> 00:07:35,213
- Oh, absolutely.
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00:07:35,316 --> 00:07:37,836
All you have to do is, like,
crack open a yearbook
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00:07:37,940 --> 00:07:39,010
and just see.
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00:07:39,113 --> 00:07:40,874
It's like a greatest hits.
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00:07:43,532 --> 00:07:44,947
[indistinct chatter]
188
00:07:45,050 --> 00:07:46,535
[school bell rings]
189
00:07:46,638 --> 00:07:48,502
[distant laughter]
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00:07:48,606 --> 00:07:51,678
[soft music]
191
00:07:51,781 --> 00:07:53,127
โช
192
00:07:53,231 --> 00:07:54,474
[whistle blows]
193
00:07:54,577 --> 00:07:56,337
- Interestingly,
Zach actually had
194
00:07:56,441 --> 00:07:57,925
a kind of burgeoning career
in football.
195
00:07:58,029 --> 00:07:59,064
- Yeah.
196
00:07:59,168 --> 00:08:00,514
- What was that experience
like for you?
197
00:08:00,618 --> 00:08:02,689
- So went to Indiana
University, started playing.
198
00:08:02,792 --> 00:08:05,692
[muffled cheering]
199
00:08:07,763 --> 00:08:09,005
[whistle blows]
200
00:08:09,109 --> 00:08:10,213
[crowd cheering]
201
00:08:10,317 --> 00:08:12,871
- But it was derailed...
- It was.
202
00:08:12,975 --> 00:08:14,873
- For the better,
you could argue now.
203
00:08:14,977 --> 00:08:17,289
- Basically, it was--
before even the first season,
204
00:08:17,393 --> 00:08:18,428
is when I got injured.
205
00:08:18,532 --> 00:08:19,982
It was a total, like, blow.
206
00:08:20,085 --> 00:08:22,536
Like, my kneecap was
over on the left side.
207
00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:23,986
Like, it was rough.
208
00:08:24,089 --> 00:08:25,884
- Man, I knew I knew you.
It was the Rose Bowl.
209
00:08:25,988 --> 00:08:27,714
Three years ago,
you beat SC, right?
210
00:08:27,817 --> 00:08:29,336
- Yeah, I got my knee
folded back
211
00:08:29,439 --> 00:08:31,372
about 90 degrees
the wrong way.
212
00:08:31,476 --> 00:08:33,029
- Whoa.
That's why you never went pro?
213
00:08:33,133 --> 00:08:34,306
- Tore the ACL.
214
00:08:34,410 --> 00:08:35,998
My knee stayed out.
215
00:08:36,101 --> 00:08:38,034
[both laugh]
216
00:08:38,138 --> 00:08:39,001
- That's all.
217
00:08:40,243 --> 00:08:42,418
- He was a good
high school football player.
218
00:08:42,522 --> 00:08:43,626
- Mm-hmm.
219
00:08:43,730 --> 00:08:45,559
- But the embellishing,
like saying,
220
00:08:45,663 --> 00:08:47,665
"Oh, yeah, I was going to play
football at IU."
221
00:08:47,768 --> 00:08:50,081
He wasn't good enough
to play in the Big Ten.
222
00:08:50,184 --> 00:08:52,911
- What?
He never played in college?
223
00:08:53,015 --> 00:08:53,947
- I don't know.
224
00:08:54,050 --> 00:08:56,777
But my brother
probably knows, like,
225
00:08:56,881 --> 00:08:58,779
if he actually ever suited up
226
00:08:58,883 --> 00:09:01,506
for Indiana University
football.
227
00:09:01,610 --> 00:09:03,059
- Hey, Robbie.
- Hey, Derek.
228
00:09:03,163 --> 00:09:05,786
Did Zach ever
actually play football
229
00:09:05,890 --> 00:09:08,030
at Indiana University?
230
00:09:08,133 --> 00:09:09,549
- No.
231
00:09:09,652 --> 00:09:11,309
- And then you said
that was before--
232
00:09:11,412 --> 00:09:13,725
- Yeah, so that was training
before freshman year,
233
00:09:13,829 --> 00:09:15,969
like, actual,
like, season happened.
234
00:09:16,072 --> 00:09:18,592
- Did he ever go
to, like, a tryout
235
00:09:18,696 --> 00:09:20,283
or anything?
236
00:09:20,387 --> 00:09:21,664
- No.
237
00:09:21,768 --> 00:09:24,874
He was never on
the football team.
238
00:09:24,978 --> 00:09:27,705
I think he tore his ACL
playing intramural football.
239
00:09:27,808 --> 00:09:30,673
- [laughs]
- Oh, okay.
240
00:09:30,777 --> 00:09:32,468
- What was, like, the--
241
00:09:32,572 --> 00:09:35,505
the impetus for you to then
say, "Okay, I'm gonna act"?
242
00:09:35,609 --> 00:09:36,679
Like, "I want to act"?
243
00:09:36,783 --> 00:09:37,956
- My mom's
a lifelong educator.
244
00:09:38,060 --> 00:09:39,130
She's a teacher.
245
00:09:39,233 --> 00:09:41,339
She fully was,
"You need an education
246
00:09:41,442 --> 00:09:43,755
and you need to go that route
before doing anything else."
247
00:09:43,859 --> 00:09:46,827
And so I really didn't have
a choice in my head
248
00:09:46,931 --> 00:09:48,242
of, like,
"I'm gonna be an actor.
249
00:09:48,346 --> 00:09:50,003
"I'm gonna follow the arts
and I'm gonna be an artist,
250
00:09:50,106 --> 00:09:51,867
and that's it,
and that's what I want to do."
251
00:09:51,970 --> 00:09:53,696
I was going to school
for psychology.
252
00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:55,180
- You started
at Indiana University.
253
00:09:55,284 --> 00:09:56,630
- Mm-hmm.
254
00:09:56,734 --> 00:10:00,047
- How did that kind of train
your mindset for acting?
255
00:10:00,151 --> 00:10:02,049
- As the actor,
you need to be empathetic
256
00:10:02,153 --> 00:10:04,120
and, like, being able to tap
into these emotions.
257
00:10:04,224 --> 00:10:06,157
And in psychology,
you kind of want
258
00:10:06,260 --> 00:10:08,608
to study why people are doing
the things they're doing,
259
00:10:08,711 --> 00:10:10,368
which obviously goes
hand-in-hand.
260
00:10:10,471 --> 00:10:14,648
- Psychological expertise
and acting and ruthlessness--
261
00:10:14,752 --> 00:10:17,202
these various ingredients
that just together
262
00:10:17,306 --> 00:10:18,514
make for a good con artist.
263
00:10:18,618 --> 00:10:22,276
And psychology was a really
big part of Zach's talents,
264
00:10:22,380 --> 00:10:24,658
as it were.
265
00:10:24,762 --> 00:10:28,110
- My research is mostly
about personality
266
00:10:28,213 --> 00:10:30,940
and how it influences
primarily antisocial behavior.
267
00:10:31,044 --> 00:10:33,840
So I'm really interested
in sort of what kind of traits
268
00:10:33,943 --> 00:10:36,359
make people do bad things.
269
00:10:36,463 --> 00:10:39,155
- Is there anything, like,
that would be a tell?
270
00:10:39,259 --> 00:10:42,365
- Extreme confidence,
I think, is a pretty big one.
271
00:10:42,469 --> 00:10:43,470
I mean, folks,
I think, who are,
272
00:10:43,573 --> 00:10:44,678
like, kind of Ponzi schemers
273
00:10:44,782 --> 00:10:46,680
are kind of
partially psychopathic
274
00:10:46,784 --> 00:10:48,164
because they have
some of the traits
275
00:10:48,268 --> 00:10:49,338
that are associated
with psychopathy,
276
00:10:49,441 --> 00:10:51,340
also the traits
associated with narcissism
277
00:10:51,443 --> 00:10:52,824
and Machiavellianism.
- Hmm.
278
00:10:52,928 --> 00:10:55,171
- But they have
decent impulse control.
279
00:10:55,275 --> 00:10:56,932
- Thanks for joining
class today.
280
00:10:57,035 --> 00:10:58,658
Can we pull
our chairs together?
281
00:10:58,761 --> 00:10:59,935
I just want to have
a little bit of a talk
282
00:11:00,038 --> 00:11:02,454
before we get
into exercises today.
283
00:11:02,558 --> 00:11:05,492
Really, all we have to do is--
284
00:11:05,595 --> 00:11:07,114
we want to get into character, right?
285
00:11:07,218 --> 00:11:08,702
We always talk about,
"I want to get into character.
286
00:11:08,806 --> 00:11:10,497
How do I get
into this character?"
287
00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:12,154
Well, the villain of the story
288
00:11:12,257 --> 00:11:14,639
doesn't know
that he's the villain.
289
00:11:14,743 --> 00:11:16,296
He's just living his own life,
290
00:11:16,399 --> 00:11:19,195
doing things that he feels
justified in doing.
291
00:11:19,299 --> 00:11:22,198
So our job as the actor
is to ask ourselves,
292
00:11:22,302 --> 00:11:24,684
what would get me
293
00:11:24,787 --> 00:11:26,824
to do the things
that that person did?
294
00:11:26,927 --> 00:11:29,447
What is the justification?
295
00:11:29,550 --> 00:11:30,966
- Does anything
stand out to you?
296
00:11:31,069 --> 00:11:32,519
- Well, a lot of crime
is about,
297
00:11:32,622 --> 00:11:34,348
like, a lack of restraint.
298
00:11:34,452 --> 00:11:35,418
So it's not about, like,
299
00:11:35,522 --> 00:11:36,385
"I really, really
want that badly."
300
00:11:36,488 --> 00:11:37,835
It's, "I kind of want that,
301
00:11:37,938 --> 00:11:39,664
"and there's nothing
keeping me from going after it
302
00:11:39,768 --> 00:11:41,252
in whatever way that I want."
303
00:11:41,355 --> 00:11:43,530
- And that's where it gets
kind of fucked up
304
00:11:43,633 --> 00:11:45,428
because we're like,
wait a second.
305
00:11:45,532 --> 00:11:48,569
We all have the ability
to do those things.
306
00:11:48,673 --> 00:11:51,676
If you're pushed,
if you're prodded,
307
00:11:51,780 --> 00:11:55,438
if you have enough desperation
and need...
308
00:11:55,542 --> 00:11:58,718
- When you start to take
those sorts of barriers away,
309
00:11:58,821 --> 00:12:00,685
the world is your oyster, right?
310
00:12:00,789 --> 00:12:02,583
I mean, you can do
almost anything.
311
00:12:02,687 --> 00:12:04,102
- As an actor, I feel like
312
00:12:04,206 --> 00:12:06,173
part of the mystique
of what we do
313
00:12:06,277 --> 00:12:08,244
is that you don't want people
to know
314
00:12:08,348 --> 00:12:10,453
who Zach is as a person.
315
00:12:10,557 --> 00:12:12,283
I want people to be able
to see me on a screen
316
00:12:12,386 --> 00:12:15,873
and say, "That character is
someone I'm believing."
317
00:12:15,976 --> 00:12:17,460
Caught some chatter
on the inside
318
00:12:17,564 --> 00:12:19,704
that might be a real score
if moved on pronto.
319
00:12:19,808 --> 00:12:21,016
This kook's brother ripped
320
00:12:21,119 --> 00:12:24,122
a couple elbows
from the cartel.
321
00:12:24,226 --> 00:12:25,641
- Sounds good.
322
00:12:25,745 --> 00:12:27,608
- This is really incredible.
323
00:12:27,712 --> 00:12:31,543
Did you know that Zach
has a blog?
324
00:12:31,647 --> 00:12:33,476
Well, listen to this.
325
00:12:33,580 --> 00:12:35,133
"From one
of my favorite movies,
326
00:12:35,237 --> 00:12:37,273
"'The Pursuit of Happyness.'
327
00:12:37,377 --> 00:12:39,034
"After Will Smith's
character's son
328
00:12:39,137 --> 00:12:40,173
"tells him he's going to be
329
00:12:40,276 --> 00:12:41,381
a professional
basketball player..."
330
00:12:41,484 --> 00:12:43,624
- [laughs]
I'm going pro!
331
00:12:43,728 --> 00:12:45,316
- Oh!
332
00:12:45,419 --> 00:12:47,663
- "He says, 'Don't ever let
someone tell you
333
00:12:47,767 --> 00:12:49,458
you can't do something,
not even me.'"
334
00:12:49,561 --> 00:12:52,668
both: You got a dream,
you gotta protect it.
335
00:12:52,772 --> 00:12:54,808
- "'People can't do
something themselves,
336
00:12:54,912 --> 00:12:57,052
they want to tell you
you can't do it.'"
337
00:12:57,155 --> 00:12:59,813
both: If you want something,
go get it.
338
00:12:59,917 --> 00:13:01,263
Period.
339
00:13:02,574 --> 00:13:04,128
- Zach gets out of school.
340
00:13:04,231 --> 00:13:07,787
He leaves Indiana University
and moves to Chicago.
341
00:13:09,305 --> 00:13:10,997
I have to assume
that Chicago is
342
00:13:11,100 --> 00:13:12,584
just kind of
a center of gravity
343
00:13:12,688 --> 00:13:14,241
in that part of the country.
344
00:13:14,345 --> 00:13:16,416
You're leaving college
and going to the big city,
345
00:13:16,519 --> 00:13:18,798
Chicago is gonna be that.
346
00:13:18,901 --> 00:13:22,042
One of the mysteries
about his time in Chicago
347
00:13:22,146 --> 00:13:24,873
was this smoothie bar, Ful.
348
00:13:26,806 --> 00:13:28,808
The question was,
who gets out of college
349
00:13:28,911 --> 00:13:30,568
and just opens a business
in Chicago?
350
00:13:30,671 --> 00:13:31,949
That's not easy to do.
351
00:13:32,052 --> 00:13:34,227
You need some real money.
Where did it come from?
352
00:13:34,330 --> 00:13:36,160
I've actually heard
both versions,
353
00:13:36,263 --> 00:13:38,990
that there's
a rags-to-riches version
354
00:13:39,094 --> 00:13:42,960
but also
a came-from-money version.
355
00:13:43,063 --> 00:13:44,789
Zach is said
to have told people
356
00:13:44,893 --> 00:13:47,619
that Howard Schultz,
the CEO of Starbucks,
357
00:13:47,723 --> 00:13:50,174
had bankrolled him
358
00:13:50,277 --> 00:13:53,487
together with this big
finance firm called Maveron.
359
00:13:53,591 --> 00:13:58,389
He would tell people that they
were behind this smoothie bar.
360
00:13:58,492 --> 00:14:00,736
We do know
that right around that time,
361
00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,326
his mother had come into a lot
of money, millions of dollars,
362
00:14:04,429 --> 00:14:06,362
that she inherited
from her second husband
363
00:14:06,466 --> 00:14:08,054
after he died.
364
00:14:08,157 --> 00:14:09,883
- I'm Zach.
This is Anton.
365
00:14:09,987 --> 00:14:11,091
We are Ful.
366
00:14:11,195 --> 00:14:12,368
We're really excited
to be a part
367
00:14:12,472 --> 00:14:13,645
of the Lakeview community
368
00:14:13,749 --> 00:14:15,164
and excited to be in Chicago
369
00:14:15,268 --> 00:14:17,063
and fuel the minds, bodies,
and spirits
370
00:14:17,166 --> 00:14:18,374
of the Chicago area.
371
00:14:19,962 --> 00:14:22,723
- I think it went under
very quickly.
372
00:14:22,827 --> 00:14:24,725
- I think for me, it was
always in the back of my head.
373
00:14:24,829 --> 00:14:26,969
You know, I always knew
that, you know,
374
00:14:27,073 --> 00:14:29,040
LA was kind of like the dream.
375
00:14:29,144 --> 00:14:32,837
- And to fund this goal
of moving to LA--
376
00:14:32,941 --> 00:14:34,011
because, you know,
that's where
377
00:14:34,114 --> 00:14:36,013
everything is for acting--
378
00:14:36,116 --> 00:14:39,637
you did sell QuickBooks
software door-to-door.
379
00:14:39,740 --> 00:14:41,846
Do you think that kind of
made you a stronger person
380
00:14:41,950 --> 00:14:43,296
mentally and emotionally?
381
00:14:43,399 --> 00:14:45,505
Because I'm sure
a lot of people said no
382
00:14:45,608 --> 00:14:46,506
to what you were selling.
383
00:14:46,609 --> 00:14:47,887
- Oh, yeah, for sure.
384
00:14:47,990 --> 00:14:50,268
98% of the people
that I talked to
385
00:14:50,372 --> 00:14:52,650
said no or didn't even listen
to what I was selling,
386
00:14:52,753 --> 00:14:53,858
and said no immediately.
387
00:14:53,962 --> 00:14:55,135
- Not interested. Sorry.
- Ah.
388
00:14:55,239 --> 00:14:57,172
- I'm in the middle
of a card game.
389
00:14:57,275 --> 00:14:58,449
And--
- What are you playing?
390
00:14:58,552 --> 00:15:00,865
- I'm--canasta.
391
00:15:00,969 --> 00:15:02,349
- It was one of
those things that--
392
00:15:02,453 --> 00:15:04,110
I needed money.
I needed a job.
393
00:15:04,213 --> 00:15:06,215
I needed something
to make enough
394
00:15:06,319 --> 00:15:09,115
to be able to do the thing
that I knew I was gonna do.
395
00:15:09,218 --> 00:15:12,497
- At the exact same time
that Zach Horwitz owns
396
00:15:12,601 --> 00:15:15,328
a smoothie shop in Chicago,
he's also busting his ass,
397
00:15:15,431 --> 00:15:18,745
going door-to-door
selling QuickBooks software
398
00:15:18,848 --> 00:15:22,231
to get him and Mallory to LA.
399
00:15:22,335 --> 00:15:25,683
I mean, that doesn't
make any sense.
400
00:15:25,786 --> 00:15:28,237
Especially because we know
a couple years earlier,
401
00:15:28,341 --> 00:15:30,826
his mom inherits millions
after her husband died,
402
00:15:30,930 --> 00:15:32,897
which does actually justify
how a kid
403
00:15:33,001 --> 00:15:34,761
right out of college
could have the capital
404
00:15:34,864 --> 00:15:37,074
to open a smoothie shop.
405
00:15:37,177 --> 00:15:39,800
But if I--if my mom has
a couple million dollars,
406
00:15:39,904 --> 00:15:41,319
I'm not going door-to-door.
407
00:15:41,423 --> 00:15:44,081
[laughs]
It doesn't make any sense.
408
00:15:44,184 --> 00:15:45,565
But I think this is like
the college football.
409
00:15:45,668 --> 00:15:47,774
This is just, you know,
stuff that he's using
410
00:15:47,877 --> 00:15:50,742
to spice up his origin story.
411
00:15:50,846 --> 00:15:52,089
- It's hard at the beginning.
412
00:15:52,192 --> 00:15:54,022
You gotta--you gotta
climb the ladder
413
00:15:54,125 --> 00:15:55,955
and--and see what works.
414
00:15:56,058 --> 00:15:58,888
- So let's leave psychology
415
00:15:58,992 --> 00:16:02,030
and smoothie bars behind
in Chicago.
416
00:16:02,133 --> 00:16:04,032
He and his partner, Mallory,
pack up the car
417
00:16:04,135 --> 00:16:05,550
and move to LA.
418
00:16:05,654 --> 00:16:08,553
[tense music]
419
00:16:08,657 --> 00:16:10,348
โช
420
00:16:10,452 --> 00:16:12,902
- I think the scary part
about Zach is,
421
00:16:13,006 --> 00:16:15,664
he came to LA with the plan,
with the scheme,
422
00:16:15,767 --> 00:16:17,010
with a persona.
423
00:16:17,114 --> 00:16:19,323
And it was calculated.
424
00:16:19,426 --> 00:16:22,843
It wasn't something
he just kind of fell into.
425
00:16:22,947 --> 00:16:25,260
He knew what he was doing
from the start.
426
00:16:27,262 --> 00:16:29,574
When I was 21 years old,
I kind of packed up my job
427
00:16:29,678 --> 00:16:31,991
at a pinnacle of my career
and I went out to LA.
428
00:16:32,094 --> 00:16:34,269
I wanted to chase
the Hollywood dream.
429
00:16:35,442 --> 00:16:37,444
I wanted to meet people,
network with people.
430
00:16:37,548 --> 00:16:39,136
I wanted to do everything
I possibly could.
431
00:16:39,239 --> 00:16:42,380
And I was enamored
by the industry.
432
00:16:44,141 --> 00:16:47,247
I think Hollywood
represents opportunity.
433
00:16:47,351 --> 00:16:51,251
And anything you want to do is
available for you to do there.
434
00:16:52,321 --> 00:16:54,496
I got a call for a role.
435
00:16:54,599 --> 00:16:56,118
It was a small role, but
I said, hey, what the heck?
436
00:16:56,222 --> 00:16:57,706
You never know
who you're gonna meet.
437
00:16:57,809 --> 00:16:59,501
You hear stories like that
all the time in LA.
438
00:16:59,604 --> 00:17:00,812
You just have to go.
439
00:17:00,916 --> 00:17:03,505
You never know what directors
or producers or connections
440
00:17:03,608 --> 00:17:05,403
you're gonna meet.
441
00:17:05,507 --> 00:17:07,129
I was on that drive
for two hours.
442
00:17:07,233 --> 00:17:09,338
Almost turned around 25 times.
443
00:17:09,442 --> 00:17:11,064
Like, "What am I doing?
This is two hours away.
444
00:17:11,168 --> 00:17:12,652
It pays nothing."
445
00:17:12,755 --> 00:17:16,483
But I pushed through
and showed up to set.
446
00:17:16,587 --> 00:17:18,278
It was one of those roles
where everybody kind of
447
00:17:18,382 --> 00:17:19,900
looks the same,
talks the same.
448
00:17:20,004 --> 00:17:21,557
But me and Zach
were just obviously cut
449
00:17:21,661 --> 00:17:22,696
from a different cloth.
450
00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:24,250
We instantly bonded.
451
00:17:24,353 --> 00:17:27,115
We exchanged phone numbers
and made it a plan
452
00:17:27,218 --> 00:17:30,083
to link up right after that.
453
00:17:30,187 --> 00:17:33,293
And that's--that's the day
I met Zach Horwitz.
454
00:17:33,397 --> 00:17:36,020
And that's a movie I wish
I would've never shown up to.
455
00:17:36,124 --> 00:17:38,643
I can tell you that much.
456
00:17:39,368 --> 00:17:42,371
- If you know that you came
from Indiana or wherever
457
00:17:42,475 --> 00:17:44,373
and drove across country
or flew here
458
00:17:44,477 --> 00:17:46,513
to land in this place,
to follow this dream,
459
00:17:46,617 --> 00:17:48,757
you obviously had
something in there that said,
460
00:17:48,860 --> 00:17:49,861
like, "I'm good enough.
461
00:17:49,965 --> 00:17:51,346
I can do this."
462
00:17:51,449 --> 00:17:53,624
And it is, yeah,
about studying,
463
00:17:53,727 --> 00:17:55,281
going to class,
and things like that.
464
00:17:55,384 --> 00:17:58,698
But it's also about making
connections with people.
465
00:17:58,801 --> 00:18:01,494
- After meeting Zach on set,
literally the next day,
466
00:18:01,597 --> 00:18:03,496
he invites me over
to meet his girlfriend
467
00:18:03,599 --> 00:18:05,360
and just kind of hang out
and talk shop
468
00:18:05,463 --> 00:18:06,844
and get to know each other.
469
00:18:06,947 --> 00:18:08,225
I meet Mallory,
who, at the time,
470
00:18:08,328 --> 00:18:09,778
wanted to be
a wedding planner.
471
00:18:09,881 --> 00:18:11,366
She had big aspirations
472
00:18:11,469 --> 00:18:12,953
to be a celebrity stylist
in LA.
473
00:18:13,057 --> 00:18:14,679
And she was going
to school for it.
474
00:18:14,783 --> 00:18:16,440
And they tell me
their story about, you know,
475
00:18:16,543 --> 00:18:19,857
being from a small-town family
and small-town school.
476
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,412
- Zach and Mallory have been
together since they were 19.
477
00:18:23,516 --> 00:18:25,828
And there's really no evidence
to suggest
478
00:18:25,932 --> 00:18:27,002
that she knew about the scam.
479
00:18:27,106 --> 00:18:30,523
But their relationship,
their family,
480
00:18:30,626 --> 00:18:33,077
is a huge part
of what makes him credible.
481
00:18:33,181 --> 00:18:34,665
So this is your camera here.
482
00:18:34,768 --> 00:18:36,149
You can just, you know,
stare down the barrel.
483
00:18:36,253 --> 00:18:38,117
We're gonna do a slate.
How's it going?
484
00:18:38,220 --> 00:18:39,428
- Doing all right.
- Good, good, good.
485
00:18:39,532 --> 00:18:40,636
- How about you?
- Yeah, I'm great.
486
00:18:40,740 --> 00:18:41,706
Thanks for being here.
487
00:18:41,810 --> 00:18:43,536
- It kind of struck me
as really familiar
488
00:18:43,639 --> 00:18:46,194
because I had a friend
whose father, actually,
489
00:18:46,297 --> 00:18:48,403
was a part of a Ponzi scheme.
490
00:18:48,506 --> 00:18:50,922
The aftermath leaves
a lot of hurt.
491
00:18:51,026 --> 00:18:52,959
- I think he's a psychopath.
492
00:18:53,062 --> 00:18:54,478
And I don't like
men like that.
493
00:18:54,581 --> 00:18:56,687
- I guess there's a lot that
we don't know about people,
494
00:18:56,790 --> 00:18:58,482
just from passing by.
495
00:18:58,585 --> 00:19:01,278
- It almost seems like
a parallel universe, like--
496
00:19:01,381 --> 00:19:03,280
like it's someone
that I could have known.
497
00:19:03,383 --> 00:19:04,522
- Do you think
she knew what was up?
498
00:19:04,626 --> 00:19:05,868
- Probably not.
499
00:19:05,972 --> 00:19:07,939
The woman doesn't
normally know.
500
00:19:08,043 --> 00:19:09,803
- I think
that she convinced herself
501
00:19:09,907 --> 00:19:11,253
what he was saying was true.
502
00:19:11,357 --> 00:19:15,223
- I mean, his eyes are--
are stunning.
503
00:19:15,326 --> 00:19:16,362
Very attractive eyes.
504
00:19:16,465 --> 00:19:17,811
Pulls you right in.
505
00:19:19,813 --> 00:19:22,437
He definitely had
charisma and confidence.
506
00:19:22,540 --> 00:19:24,370
And you couple that
with good looks
507
00:19:24,473 --> 00:19:27,096
and if you know what to say,
people will believe you.
508
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,410
โช
509
00:19:30,514 --> 00:19:34,483
So I give Zach
my two months' expertise
510
00:19:34,587 --> 00:19:36,658
on what I figured out
in the industry.
511
00:19:36,761 --> 00:19:39,316
And I told him that if you
want to make it in LA,
512
00:19:39,419 --> 00:19:40,524
you got to do
something yourself.
513
00:19:40,627 --> 00:19:41,766
So he kind of leans into me,
514
00:19:41,870 --> 00:19:44,079
and he goes,
"Well, how much does it take
515
00:19:44,183 --> 00:19:45,356
to make a movie?"
516
00:19:45,460 --> 00:19:48,152
And I'm like, "Well,
like blockbusters, or--"
517
00:19:48,256 --> 00:19:49,671
he's like, "No,
something kind of smaller."
518
00:19:49,774 --> 00:19:51,466
I'm like, "Well, I think
you make one
519
00:19:51,569 --> 00:19:53,019
for a couple million,
you know?"
520
00:19:53,122 --> 00:19:55,021
And he's like, "Really?
Okay, okay."
521
00:19:55,124 --> 00:19:57,679
I look at him, and--
522
00:19:57,782 --> 00:19:58,852
"What do you mean?"
523
00:19:58,956 --> 00:20:01,200
Like, you know, he had
this kind of persona
524
00:20:01,303 --> 00:20:03,132
that, like,
"Well, I can afford that."
525
00:20:03,236 --> 00:20:05,238
So I'm just kind of like, huh.
526
00:20:05,342 --> 00:20:06,929
And he tells me about
527
00:20:07,033 --> 00:20:08,517
a company he founded
called Ful.
528
00:20:08,621 --> 00:20:09,967
He told me
he was so successful,
529
00:20:10,070 --> 00:20:13,971
he opened multiple stores
in a matter of six months.
530
00:20:14,523 --> 00:20:17,216
And he told me
it eventually sold to Maveron.
531
00:20:17,319 --> 00:20:18,769
He was whispering all this.
532
00:20:18,872 --> 00:20:20,357
He was being
a little bit coy about it,
533
00:20:20,460 --> 00:20:22,945
but I was
absolutely intrigued.
534
00:20:23,049 --> 00:20:26,604
And I asked him, "How much
did you sell Ful for?"
535
00:20:26,708 --> 00:20:29,745
And he leans over to me
like he's telling a secret.
536
00:20:29,849 --> 00:20:31,230
And he's like,
"Look, I'll tell you,
537
00:20:31,333 --> 00:20:32,507
"but you can't tell Mallory.
538
00:20:32,610 --> 00:20:33,853
"You know, I just don't
want Mallory to know
539
00:20:33,956 --> 00:20:35,164
exactly how much it is."
540
00:20:35,268 --> 00:20:38,789
And he leans over and tells me
he sold it for $11 million.
541
00:20:38,892 --> 00:20:40,342
So, you know, in my head,
I was like,
542
00:20:40,446 --> 00:20:42,379
okay, you know,
I just met this guy.
543
00:20:42,482 --> 00:20:43,863
He wants to make
a movie in LA.
544
00:20:43,966 --> 00:20:46,106
And he's got 11 million bucks
in his--his pocket.
545
00:20:46,210 --> 00:20:48,316
You know,
he's my new best friend.
546
00:20:48,419 --> 00:20:49,800
You know what I mean?
547
00:20:49,903 --> 00:20:53,286
So this is someone I might
develop a relationship with.
548
00:20:55,737 --> 00:20:57,980
[soft music]
549
00:20:58,084 --> 00:21:01,260
So me and Zach spent
literally the next two weeks,
550
00:21:01,363 --> 00:21:04,435
day and night,
you know, dusk till dawn,
551
00:21:04,539 --> 00:21:06,472
thinking we're Ben Affleck,
Matt Damon.
552
00:21:06,575 --> 00:21:09,751
I mean, we're writing
script ideas and outlines.
553
00:21:09,854 --> 00:21:12,650
And you hear the story of how
they wrote their own script
554
00:21:12,754 --> 00:21:14,549
and made it big,
won the Oscar, and...
555
00:21:14,652 --> 00:21:16,136
- I just said to Matt,
losing would suck
556
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:17,241
and winning would be
really scary.
557
00:21:17,345 --> 00:21:19,623
And it's really, really scary.
558
00:21:19,726 --> 00:21:21,349
- It's kind of who we thought
we were gonna be, you know?
559
00:21:21,452 --> 00:21:22,764
We were just a couple people
560
00:21:22,867 --> 00:21:24,628
just wanting to tackle
the Hollywood dream.
561
00:21:24,731 --> 00:21:28,010
- Who are some of your biggest
inspirations, acting wise?
562
00:21:28,114 --> 00:21:30,668
- I would say Tom Cruise,
for sure.
563
00:21:30,772 --> 00:21:32,567
You know,
he's--he's one of those guys
564
00:21:32,670 --> 00:21:36,674
that every single movie
he's in, he's good.
565
00:21:36,778 --> 00:21:39,988
Leo is amazing.
566
00:21:40,091 --> 00:21:41,472
I mean, he is--he's just--
567
00:21:41,576 --> 00:21:45,580
what he's able to do
is ungodly.
568
00:21:45,683 --> 00:21:48,341
- You don't get
these lines right,
569
00:21:48,445 --> 00:21:50,861
I'm gonna blow your
fucking brains out tonight.
570
00:21:50,964 --> 00:21:52,276
- And then more recently,
571
00:21:52,380 --> 00:21:54,313
Bradley Cooper, I think,
is incredible as well,
572
00:21:54,416 --> 00:21:55,900
especially "A Star Is Born"
that he just did.
573
00:21:56,004 --> 00:21:58,662
I mean, writing it,
directing it, acting in it,
574
00:21:58,765 --> 00:22:01,043
totally transforming
into this guy,
575
00:22:01,147 --> 00:22:04,012
those are the performances
that I watch that I'm like,
576
00:22:04,115 --> 00:22:07,912
I'm in the right job,
because at some point,
577
00:22:08,016 --> 00:22:11,502
if I get even close to that,
everything's great.
578
00:22:11,606 --> 00:22:14,436
- You want answers.
- I want the truth!
579
00:22:14,540 --> 00:22:16,162
- He was my brother.
580
00:22:16,265 --> 00:22:19,303
And he was
one hell of a soldier.
581
00:22:19,407 --> 00:22:21,512
Everything he did,
582
00:22:21,616 --> 00:22:27,415
work, school, friendship,
583
00:22:27,518 --> 00:22:29,934
he did it 110%.
584
00:22:30,038 --> 00:22:34,353
I am completely
and utterly in love with you.
585
00:22:34,456 --> 00:22:36,803
I'm the man of the house now.
586
00:22:36,907 --> 00:22:38,667
You know why?
587
00:22:38,771 --> 00:22:41,705
'Cause you're just
a fucking child.
588
00:22:41,808 --> 00:22:44,673
[dark music]
589
00:22:44,777 --> 00:22:46,295
- Okay, so we have
this script in hand.
590
00:22:46,399 --> 00:22:48,332
And, you know,
what we learned is,
591
00:22:48,436 --> 00:22:49,816
you got to have
an actor attached.
592
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:51,439
- It's got
a major star interested.
593
00:22:51,542 --> 00:22:53,337
- Which star?
- Who are the stars?
594
00:22:53,441 --> 00:22:55,615
- We need a male lead,
and we need him now.
595
00:22:55,719 --> 00:22:56,892
- Two.
596
00:22:56,996 --> 00:22:58,653
- And action.
597
00:22:58,756 --> 00:23:00,724
- You get
an A-list actor attached,
598
00:23:00,827 --> 00:23:04,141
that brings a certain value
to your movie--or a director.
599
00:23:04,244 --> 00:23:05,660
- Cut. Very good.
600
00:23:05,763 --> 00:23:07,524
- Right, 'cause if you get
the right director attached,
601
00:23:07,627 --> 00:23:09,802
then the right actor
will attach themselves.
602
00:23:09,905 --> 00:23:12,149
- Happy birthday,
you son of a bitch.
603
00:23:12,252 --> 00:23:14,393
- So since we didn't have
an A-list director attached,
604
00:23:14,496 --> 00:23:16,256
that made it
extremely difficult
605
00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:18,362
to get an A-list actor
attached.
606
00:23:18,466 --> 00:23:20,157
- No stars. Just talent.
607
00:23:20,260 --> 00:23:21,503
- No stars?
608
00:23:21,607 --> 00:23:23,540
- Yeah, this was like
six, seven, eight months
609
00:23:23,643 --> 00:23:26,197
of just grinding
and hitting the pavement,
610
00:23:26,301 --> 00:23:27,578
talking to everybody
under the sun,
611
00:23:27,682 --> 00:23:30,063
hearing their opinions
on how we should do it.
612
00:23:30,167 --> 00:23:31,617
It was exhausting.
613
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,033
But this was just trying
to make it happen in LA.
614
00:23:36,518 --> 00:23:39,625
- What I think I understand
from Craig is that
615
00:23:39,728 --> 00:23:42,766
Zach's not offering to use
any of his "$11 million"
616
00:23:42,869 --> 00:23:44,457
to fund the movie that
he wants to make with Craig.
617
00:23:44,561 --> 00:23:46,770
That is key.
618
00:23:50,705 --> 00:23:52,603
- Zach created
a couple short films
619
00:23:52,707 --> 00:23:55,572
early on in his career
to try and get his name out.
620
00:23:55,675 --> 00:23:56,883
One was "The Laughing Man."
621
00:23:56,987 --> 00:23:59,472
- Mommy always said
I was different.
622
00:23:59,576 --> 00:24:01,681
- This is a fan-fiction
origin story on the Joker
623
00:24:01,785 --> 00:24:03,442
from the Batman series.
624
00:24:03,545 --> 00:24:05,305
And I remember
when it came out.
625
00:24:05,409 --> 00:24:08,861
And--you know,
it was pretty creepy.
626
00:24:08,964 --> 00:24:11,519
[disturbing music]
627
00:24:11,622 --> 00:24:15,730
[maniacal laughter]
628
00:24:15,833 --> 00:24:17,456
You know,
it went a little viral
629
00:24:17,559 --> 00:24:19,181
when--but that really got
his name out there
630
00:24:19,285 --> 00:24:21,287
and grabbed some attention.
631
00:24:21,390 --> 00:24:24,014
- I'm not gonna kill you.
632
00:24:24,117 --> 00:24:26,499
I'm just gonna hurt you--
633
00:24:26,603 --> 00:24:30,848
really, really bad.
634
00:24:32,850 --> 00:24:35,335
- Here's another entry
from Zach's blog.
635
00:24:35,439 --> 00:24:37,476
"My sister gave me
a framed picture
636
00:24:37,579 --> 00:24:39,892
"about ten years ago
that said,
637
00:24:39,995 --> 00:24:42,101
"'When the odds are
one in million,
638
00:24:42,204 --> 00:24:43,551
"be that one.'
639
00:24:43,654 --> 00:24:44,793
"This was the impetus
640
00:24:44,897 --> 00:24:46,899
"for naming my company
what it was named.
641
00:24:47,002 --> 00:24:48,487
"I absolutely love
this phrase,
642
00:24:48,590 --> 00:24:50,523
"and I believe it can be
a driving force
643
00:24:50,627 --> 00:24:54,803
for positivity
and productivity."
644
00:24:54,907 --> 00:24:57,116
Wow.
645
00:24:57,219 --> 00:25:00,188
[soft music]
646
00:25:00,291 --> 00:25:04,157
โช
647
00:25:04,261 --> 00:25:05,745
- Cool?
- Yes.
648
00:25:05,849 --> 00:25:06,746
- Great.
649
00:25:06,850 --> 00:25:08,403
- My name is John Verrastro.
650
00:25:08,507 --> 00:25:10,336
I'm a Special Agent
with the FBI
651
00:25:10,439 --> 00:25:12,821
in the Los Angeles
field office.
652
00:25:12,925 --> 00:25:14,513
High-yield investment fraud
and Ponzi schemes
653
00:25:14,616 --> 00:25:17,101
are common in Los Angeles.
654
00:25:17,205 --> 00:25:21,623
The size and scope
of this one is quite unique.
655
00:25:21,727 --> 00:25:24,177
Zach Horwitz was
purportedly purchasing
656
00:25:24,281 --> 00:25:25,524
the rights to various movies.
657
00:25:25,627 --> 00:25:27,767
And then he was
licensing these rights
658
00:25:27,871 --> 00:25:32,531
to Netflix, HBO, and then
other distribution platforms.
659
00:25:34,947 --> 00:25:37,397
- Somehow, he seems
to have gotten ahold
660
00:25:37,501 --> 00:25:40,815
of legitimate film licensing
661
00:25:40,918 --> 00:25:43,852
and film
distribution contracts
662
00:25:43,956 --> 00:25:48,547
that Netflix, HBO,
or others were using.
663
00:25:48,650 --> 00:25:52,620
Once he had legitimate
contracts in his hands,
664
00:25:52,723 --> 00:25:55,933
then he was able
to take it and run.
665
00:25:57,521 --> 00:25:59,074
And that's exactly
what he did.
666
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,222
- Zach Horwitz started this
mostly, you know, utilizing,
667
00:26:09,326 --> 00:26:10,707
like, friends and family
668
00:26:10,810 --> 00:26:12,916
as his initial set
of investors.
669
00:26:14,745 --> 00:26:16,575
- Zach gave me the opportunity
670
00:26:16,678 --> 00:26:19,163
to become an investor
in 1inMM.
671
00:26:19,267 --> 00:26:22,753
So he says, "Craig, I think
I can get you in, you know?
672
00:26:22,857 --> 00:26:24,375
I think you can invest."
673
00:26:24,479 --> 00:26:26,895
So my thought process is,
of course.
674
00:26:26,999 --> 00:26:30,485
These are deals with Netflix,
HBO, Howard Schultz.
675
00:26:30,589 --> 00:26:31,866
They're doing them.
676
00:26:31,969 --> 00:26:34,144
And now I have
that same opportunity
677
00:26:34,247 --> 00:26:36,664
to become an investor
in this same platform
678
00:26:36,767 --> 00:26:38,942
that Zach has created?
679
00:26:40,357 --> 00:26:42,117
No-brainer. Right?
680
00:26:42,221 --> 00:26:44,464
I don't think twice.
681
00:26:44,568 --> 00:26:47,364
I take out my savings that
I have in a real estate fund.
682
00:26:47,467 --> 00:26:49,055
And I give it to Zach.
683
00:26:49,159 --> 00:26:51,782
And I become the first
investor in 1inMM Capital.
684
00:26:51,886 --> 00:26:55,337
[sentimental music]
685
00:26:55,441 --> 00:26:57,408
- My wife and I are
always looking for ways
686
00:26:57,512 --> 00:26:59,618
to earn passive income.
687
00:26:59,721 --> 00:27:01,171
I had invested in real estate
688
00:27:01,274 --> 00:27:03,794
and in a few small companies
here and there.
689
00:27:03,898 --> 00:27:06,176
And so I was looking
for other investments.
690
00:27:09,697 --> 00:27:12,527
Scott Cohen,
a good friend of mine,
691
00:27:12,631 --> 00:27:15,323
he said, there's some
opportunity in film.
692
00:27:15,426 --> 00:27:17,394
And I am a screenwriter.
693
00:27:17,497 --> 00:27:18,775
So I was intrigued.
694
00:27:18,878 --> 00:27:21,018
And he sent me, like,
an investor pack.
695
00:27:21,122 --> 00:27:22,951
When I first saw
the business plan,
696
00:27:23,055 --> 00:27:25,816
it was, as most are, just
sunshine and roses, right?
697
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,889
It's all the positive aspects
of this deal.
698
00:27:29,993 --> 00:27:31,650
- What was going on
in my head then
699
00:27:31,753 --> 00:27:34,376
was not how good a salesman
this guy was.
700
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,207
It was that there was HBO
and Netflix and these films.
701
00:27:37,310 --> 00:27:38,726
Like, why would I
have to trust him?
702
00:27:38,829 --> 00:27:40,348
I see these contracts.
703
00:27:40,451 --> 00:27:41,729
- Right away, I said to him,
704
00:27:41,832 --> 00:27:45,042
"How do we know
this isn't a Ponzi scheme?"
705
00:27:45,146 --> 00:27:46,941
And the answer I got back
was just that,
706
00:27:47,044 --> 00:27:48,770
"Of course it isn't,
and here's why."
707
00:27:48,874 --> 00:27:53,257
And I trusted that.
708
00:27:53,361 --> 00:27:55,535
- In its most simple form,
the Ponzi scheme
709
00:27:55,639 --> 00:27:59,367
is the money part of a scam.
710
00:27:59,988 --> 00:28:02,404
My name's Supervisory
Special Agent Doug Thompson.
711
00:28:02,508 --> 00:28:06,201
And I work with the FBI
in the White Collar unit.
712
00:28:06,305 --> 00:28:07,686
The money comes in.
713
00:28:07,789 --> 00:28:10,550
And that money is used
to pay returns.
714
00:28:10,654 --> 00:28:12,138
There's no actual business
going on.
715
00:28:12,242 --> 00:28:14,416
There's no profits
in most of these cases.
716
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,317
And those payments
that the investors believe
717
00:28:18,420 --> 00:28:21,458
are the profits are actually
just the initial capital
718
00:28:21,561 --> 00:28:22,839
that the investors gave.
719
00:28:22,942 --> 00:28:25,048
New investors are
paying old investors.
720
00:28:25,151 --> 00:28:27,671
You have to have a scheme
to defraud the folks
721
00:28:27,775 --> 00:28:29,086
whose money you're taking.
722
00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:32,089
So when you've
misrepresented to them
723
00:28:32,193 --> 00:28:33,608
what you're gonna
take the money for,
724
00:28:33,712 --> 00:28:35,058
you accept the money,
725
00:28:35,161 --> 00:28:37,129
now you've gone down the road
of committing fraud.
726
00:28:39,407 --> 00:28:42,997
- I met Zach Avery when I was
raising money for venture.
727
00:28:43,100 --> 00:28:47,967
And he was part of the VC team
that invested.
728
00:28:48,071 --> 00:28:50,487
He didn't come across
as, like, a tech guy.
729
00:28:50,590 --> 00:28:53,697
So I just assumed, like,
yeah, he's a trust fund kid.
730
00:28:53,801 --> 00:28:55,250
You know, he's charming.
731
00:28:55,354 --> 00:28:57,666
And he was able
to kind of talk enough,
732
00:28:57,770 --> 00:29:01,360
like, venture, talk enough,
like, Hollywood.
733
00:29:01,463 --> 00:29:03,880
It's kind of, like,
a hot place to be right now,
734
00:29:03,983 --> 00:29:05,502
is being able to move
between those worlds.
735
00:29:05,605 --> 00:29:07,849
And, you know, you see
folks like Ryan Reynolds...
736
00:29:07,953 --> 00:29:09,230
- You're an actor.
737
00:29:09,333 --> 00:29:11,335
You're the owner
of cell carrier Mint Mobile.
738
00:29:11,439 --> 00:29:14,442
- Jessica Alba,
with the Honest Company.
739
00:29:14,545 --> 00:29:16,306
Snoop Dogg is another one.
740
00:29:16,409 --> 00:29:18,929
They have all done very well
being an investor
741
00:29:19,033 --> 00:29:22,691
and also an entrepreneur
and also an actor.
742
00:29:22,795 --> 00:29:24,417
Zach, you know, he played
that character well,
743
00:29:24,521 --> 00:29:25,625
that, "Hey, I'm this guy
744
00:29:25,729 --> 00:29:29,768
that can do a little bit
of everything."
745
00:29:29,871 --> 00:29:32,287
- What's the difference
between a pyramid scheme
746
00:29:32,391 --> 00:29:33,875
and a Ponzi scheme?
747
00:29:33,979 --> 00:29:35,566
- They're related.
748
00:29:35,670 --> 00:29:37,085
- Okay.
- Okay?
749
00:29:37,189 --> 00:29:41,262
And I would say that you might
classify a Ponzi scheme
750
00:29:41,365 --> 00:29:44,265
as sort of the evil cousin
of the pyramid scheme.
751
00:29:44,368 --> 00:29:45,438
- All right.
752
00:29:45,542 --> 00:29:47,026
- In a Ponzi scheme,
753
00:29:47,130 --> 00:29:48,959
there's one person
running the show.
754
00:29:49,063 --> 00:29:51,686
So you got--
you got your con man.
755
00:29:51,790 --> 00:29:53,067
- Okay.
756
00:29:53,170 --> 00:29:56,173
- Okay, let's call it ZH
for Zach Horwitz.
757
00:29:56,277 --> 00:29:58,175
And he comes up
with this scheme.
758
00:29:58,279 --> 00:30:02,317
And he's got friends
out there,
759
00:30:02,421 --> 00:30:03,871
potential investors.
760
00:30:06,770 --> 00:30:08,807
- A-B-C.
761
00:30:08,910 --> 00:30:11,637
A, Always, B, Be, C, Closing.
762
00:30:11,740 --> 00:30:13,777
Always Be Closing.
763
00:30:13,881 --> 00:30:17,160
Always Be Closing.
764
00:30:17,263 --> 00:30:19,472
- And he gets them to invest.
765
00:30:19,576 --> 00:30:21,233
So they put money in.
766
00:30:21,336 --> 00:30:23,442
- The entry level was
10 grand.
767
00:30:23,545 --> 00:30:25,858
- Okay, so he's taking in
at least 30 grand here.
768
00:30:25,962 --> 00:30:27,135
- Okay.
- Okay?
769
00:30:27,239 --> 00:30:29,137
And he's promising
that in six months,
770
00:30:29,241 --> 00:30:32,623
they'll get back their money
plus 15%, okay?
771
00:30:32,727 --> 00:30:33,693
That's a really good rate
of return.
772
00:30:33,797 --> 00:30:35,109
- Mm-hmm.
773
00:30:35,212 --> 00:30:37,766
- Your profit on a mere
$6,000 investment
774
00:30:37,870 --> 00:30:40,804
would be upwards of $60,000.
775
00:30:40,908 --> 00:30:42,599
- Now, how is he gonna
pay them back?
776
00:30:42,702 --> 00:30:44,912
So then he says, "Well, I got
to get some more money."
777
00:30:45,015 --> 00:30:48,847
So he goes out, finds
another group of investors.
778
00:30:48,950 --> 00:30:51,332
- We are looking to make
strategic relationships
779
00:30:51,435 --> 00:30:52,851
to move that along.
780
00:30:52,954 --> 00:30:54,853
But I kind of agree
with Mark Zuckerberg
781
00:30:54,956 --> 00:30:58,995
when he said,
"Move fast and break things."
782
00:30:59,098 --> 00:31:00,444
- Right?
- Uh-huh.
783
00:31:00,548 --> 00:31:02,101
- Okay.
784
00:31:02,205 --> 00:31:05,449
And then some of this money
785
00:31:05,553 --> 00:31:09,660
is going to pay off
the early investors, okay?
786
00:31:09,764 --> 00:31:11,007
But if you've upped the ante,
787
00:31:11,110 --> 00:31:12,456
it's no longer 10,000
to get in.
788
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,563
You need 20,000 now
or 30,000 or 40,000.
789
00:31:15,666 --> 00:31:17,047
But these people might decide,
790
00:31:17,151 --> 00:31:19,187
"Well, I'm gonna just take
this money.
791
00:31:19,291 --> 00:31:22,087
It was a good deal,
so I'll just go in again."
792
00:31:22,190 --> 00:31:25,573
- I am talking about
giving you $100 million.
793
00:31:25,676 --> 00:31:29,818
- If you go above 4,
we might have something.
794
00:31:29,922 --> 00:31:31,268
- I can do that.
795
00:31:31,372 --> 00:31:33,581
- So he gets paid off
in principle.
796
00:31:33,684 --> 00:31:35,583
But he reinvests.
797
00:31:35,686 --> 00:31:37,516
Now, of course, these people
expect their money too.
798
00:31:37,619 --> 00:31:38,931
Okay?
799
00:31:39,035 --> 00:31:40,450
So then you go to--
you know, you keep doing it,
800
00:31:40,553 --> 00:31:42,624
especially since you're
draining some money out.
801
00:31:42,728 --> 00:31:44,557
So you have to get
more and more.
802
00:31:44,661 --> 00:31:47,388
As long as they think
that it's legitimate
803
00:31:47,491 --> 00:31:50,115
and that they are, in fact,
earning these returns...
804
00:31:50,218 --> 00:31:53,739
- I got a whole suite
full of mainframe computers.
805
00:31:53,842 --> 00:31:55,085
- We're not really interested,
Henry.
806
00:31:55,189 --> 00:31:57,467
- Oh, they are so beautiful.
807
00:31:57,570 --> 00:31:59,227
Listen to 'em hum.
808
00:31:59,331 --> 00:32:00,504
- [chuckles]
809
00:32:00,608 --> 00:32:04,267
Henry, don't try
Mr. Hemming's patience.
810
00:32:04,370 --> 00:32:07,028
- You sure?
811
00:32:07,132 --> 00:32:09,479
- It tends to feed on itself.
812
00:32:09,582 --> 00:32:13,655
And if that happens enough,
then you're in good shape.
813
00:32:13,759 --> 00:32:16,141
- The key to a Ponzi scheme
is getting more investors
814
00:32:16,244 --> 00:32:17,694
in the Ponzi scheme.
815
00:32:17,797 --> 00:32:21,008
There's a pattern to it,
where they identify the people
816
00:32:21,111 --> 00:32:22,319
they want to target.
817
00:32:22,423 --> 00:32:24,218
They build rapport with them.
818
00:32:24,321 --> 00:32:27,083
They convince them that
they've got this secret way
819
00:32:27,186 --> 00:32:30,086
of creating obscene amounts
of wealth.
820
00:32:30,189 --> 00:32:33,020
And that grooming part of this
is important,
821
00:32:33,123 --> 00:32:36,230
because it's not just
to get them to invest,
822
00:32:36,333 --> 00:32:38,646
but you want them
to bring in their friends
823
00:32:38,749 --> 00:32:42,512
and their social network.
824
00:32:42,615 --> 00:32:45,101
- There is a feeling
of exclusivity
825
00:32:45,204 --> 00:32:47,034
in that you've been
invited in.
826
00:32:47,137 --> 00:32:48,518
You've now joined this club.
827
00:32:48,621 --> 00:32:53,626
And there's always
this notion that,
828
00:32:53,730 --> 00:32:55,490
particularly in Ponzi schemes,
829
00:32:55,594 --> 00:32:58,148
there are only so many deals
to go around.
830
00:32:58,252 --> 00:33:01,289
- He just had
the Hollywood lingo down.
831
00:33:01,393 --> 00:33:04,292
And he had so much
bravado behind it,
832
00:33:04,396 --> 00:33:06,536
and he seemed to talk
the talk that, you know,
833
00:33:06,639 --> 00:33:08,641
people who were
outside of that world
834
00:33:08,745 --> 00:33:10,471
were susceptible to it.
835
00:33:10,574 --> 00:33:13,301
So I think in that respect,
that's how his scheme worked.
836
00:33:13,405 --> 00:33:14,544
- Oh, it's not a problem.
837
00:33:14,647 --> 00:33:16,718
A friend in need
is a friend indeed, right?
838
00:33:16,822 --> 00:33:18,272
- There was a sense
of intrigue
839
00:33:18,375 --> 00:33:20,895
that is beyond
the typical scheme,
840
00:33:20,999 --> 00:33:22,276
where someone says,
841
00:33:22,379 --> 00:33:24,347
"You're going to be investing
in the stock market."
842
00:33:24,450 --> 00:33:26,107
They don't know anything
about these companies.
843
00:33:26,211 --> 00:33:28,178
But they do all think they
know something about movies.
844
00:33:28,282 --> 00:33:30,732
And I think investors
enjoyed saying
845
00:33:30,836 --> 00:33:32,596
that they were investing
in films.
846
00:33:32,700 --> 00:33:35,565
- Most of the investors
investing in movies
847
00:33:35,668 --> 00:33:37,774
and in Hollywood
don't really understand
848
00:33:37,877 --> 00:33:39,707
how movies and Hollywood
really work.
849
00:33:39,810 --> 00:33:42,158
And that's where
Ponzi schemes,
850
00:33:42,261 --> 00:33:43,745
fraudsters live.
851
00:33:43,849 --> 00:33:46,955
They love to get in an area
where you know a little bit
852
00:33:47,059 --> 00:33:49,613
but you don't fully
understand it.
853
00:33:49,717 --> 00:33:52,789
- When you use actual,
real movie titles that exist,
854
00:33:52,892 --> 00:33:54,653
where somebody can go
and verify,
855
00:33:54,756 --> 00:33:57,794
"Okay, this seems legitimate,
and we can get these returns
856
00:33:57,897 --> 00:33:59,209
"because he's actually using
857
00:33:59,313 --> 00:34:00,555
"our money
to purchase these things,
858
00:34:00,659 --> 00:34:02,454
"and then he has these
existing agreements
859
00:34:02,557 --> 00:34:03,869
"where he's selling them
to them,
860
00:34:03,972 --> 00:34:06,527
so the money's gonna come in."
861
00:34:06,630 --> 00:34:08,977
- When it was presented to us,
it came from a company
862
00:34:09,081 --> 00:34:11,532
called JJMT out of Chicago.
863
00:34:11,635 --> 00:34:16,537
They were sort of the advisors
to us on account of 1inMM,
864
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:18,884
which was the company
that was purportedly buying
865
00:34:18,987 --> 00:34:20,403
the rights to these films.
866
00:34:20,506 --> 00:34:23,785
And all of the members of JJMT
were in the finance sector.
867
00:34:23,889 --> 00:34:27,651
So as far as we understood,
they had vetted everything.
868
00:34:27,755 --> 00:34:31,069
And that lended credence
to this whole scheme.
869
00:34:33,519 --> 00:34:35,383
- The investors would ask,
"Well, what if you can't
870
00:34:35,487 --> 00:34:37,247
get it distributed
or something like that?"
871
00:34:37,351 --> 00:34:38,524
"Oh, you don't have
to worry about that.
872
00:34:38,628 --> 00:34:40,250
"There's some kind
of a fail-safe thing.
873
00:34:40,354 --> 00:34:43,046
Don't worry, it's always
a safe investment."
874
00:34:43,150 --> 00:34:46,256
- You had every bit
of documentation
875
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,639
you could possibly imagine
to, you know, believe
876
00:34:49,742 --> 00:34:52,124
that you are,
you know, undertaking--
877
00:34:52,228 --> 00:34:53,746
putting your money
in an incredibly safe
878
00:34:53,850 --> 00:34:54,920
and secure investment.
879
00:34:55,023 --> 00:34:56,370
You know,
there was even clauses,
880
00:34:56,473 --> 00:34:58,061
if HBO doesn't pay
or Netflix pay,
881
00:34:58,165 --> 00:34:59,373
what would happen then?
882
00:34:59,476 --> 00:35:01,271
How would, you know,
we get our money back?
883
00:35:01,375 --> 00:35:03,722
And it was all laid out.
884
00:35:03,825 --> 00:35:04,895
- So in a case like this,
885
00:35:04,999 --> 00:35:06,414
with promissory notes
being used,
886
00:35:06,518 --> 00:35:09,210
at the expiration
of the promissory note,
887
00:35:09,314 --> 00:35:11,626
whether that was
in six months or a year,
888
00:35:11,730 --> 00:35:15,458
Zach Horwitz wired the funds
back to the victim investors.
889
00:35:15,561 --> 00:35:17,943
And then for the next note,
the victim investors
890
00:35:18,046 --> 00:35:20,635
would wire the money back.
891
00:35:20,739 --> 00:35:22,706
- You lend the money
for six months.
892
00:35:22,810 --> 00:35:26,434
You get the 35%, 40% return,
whatever it is.
893
00:35:26,538 --> 00:35:28,678
And then boom, you're out.
It's over.
894
00:35:28,781 --> 00:35:31,198
- So that was the thing.
I mean, I did get money.
895
00:35:31,301 --> 00:35:33,234
And, you know, I guess
I could have walked away.
896
00:35:33,338 --> 00:35:35,995
And--you know,
but it seemed legit, right?
897
00:35:36,099 --> 00:35:38,584
- And the other thing that was
always presented to us
898
00:35:38,688 --> 00:35:40,655
was that, these aren't
gonna last forever.
899
00:35:40,759 --> 00:35:44,003
At some point, there will be
other players in the game.
900
00:35:44,107 --> 00:35:47,455
And HBO or Netflix
will realize
901
00:35:47,559 --> 00:35:49,492
that they could cut
the middleman out.
902
00:35:49,595 --> 00:35:52,529
And Zach--Zach's whole
business would be gone.
903
00:35:52,633 --> 00:35:56,878
And so that was another thing
that got people to try and put
904
00:35:56,982 --> 00:36:00,330
as much money as they could in
as quickly as they could,
905
00:36:00,434 --> 00:36:04,507
because they knew that this
was a limited opportunity.
906
00:36:05,887 --> 00:36:09,028
- Around 2017, one of my
neighbors down the street
907
00:36:09,132 --> 00:36:12,756
told me the story about
these guys killing it in film.
908
00:36:12,860 --> 00:36:16,035
I had a production company
called Forager Film.
909
00:36:16,139 --> 00:36:17,589
We made a lot
of independent films
910
00:36:17,692 --> 00:36:21,351
starting in about 2013
and going forward.
911
00:36:22,214 --> 00:36:26,184
I've had a lot go to Sundance,
Berlin, South by Southwest.
912
00:36:26,287 --> 00:36:27,633
I definitely don't have
all the answers.
913
00:36:27,737 --> 00:36:29,911
So I always want to talk
to people about that.
914
00:36:30,015 --> 00:36:34,157
So in '17, we had two movies
going to Sundance.
915
00:36:34,261 --> 00:36:35,883
And I'm like,
"Two movies at Sundance.
916
00:36:35,986 --> 00:36:37,298
I know this business."
917
00:36:37,402 --> 00:36:40,784
Prior to '17,
we knew if we came in
918
00:36:40,888 --> 00:36:43,028
at a certain price point,
there'd be buyers out there.
919
00:36:43,131 --> 00:36:45,548
And the buyers weren't there
in '17.
920
00:36:45,651 --> 00:36:48,309
And so it was getting really
hard for us to sell movies.
921
00:36:48,413 --> 00:36:50,794
Then I come back
to the summer and he's saying,
922
00:36:50,898 --> 00:36:52,934
"Oh, these guys are
killing it in film."
923
00:36:53,038 --> 00:36:54,764
He's like, "Oh, no,
the guy would tell them
924
00:36:54,867 --> 00:36:56,248
"what Netflix would need.
925
00:36:56,352 --> 00:36:58,112
"And they'd go out
and either make the movie
926
00:36:58,216 --> 00:37:00,010
"or find the movie,
some foreign films.
927
00:37:00,114 --> 00:37:02,944
"And they would then turn
around and sell to Netflix.
928
00:37:03,048 --> 00:37:06,154
"And they're returning
some crazy amount of money
929
00:37:06,258 --> 00:37:07,673
all the time."
930
00:37:07,777 --> 00:37:09,951
And I'm going, wow,
I'm having a real tough time
931
00:37:10,055 --> 00:37:13,231
selling movies to Netflix,
Amazon, take your pick,
932
00:37:13,334 --> 00:37:14,853
because they want to make
their own films.
933
00:37:14,956 --> 00:37:16,234
- Hmm.
934
00:37:16,337 --> 00:37:17,304
So that was the first time
you kind of, like,
935
00:37:17,407 --> 00:37:18,684
"Wait a second,
936
00:37:18,788 --> 00:37:20,859
I know how this gets done,
and that's not it"?
937
00:37:20,962 --> 00:37:22,067
- Exactly.
938
00:37:22,170 --> 00:37:23,931
The story they were telling,
939
00:37:24,034 --> 00:37:25,243
they were telling
a lot of people.
940
00:37:25,346 --> 00:37:27,624
And they were hitting
the North Shore,
941
00:37:27,728 --> 00:37:29,557
where there's a lot of wealth
and that kind of thing.
942
00:37:29,661 --> 00:37:31,594
And my neighbor was
really seriously
943
00:37:31,697 --> 00:37:33,251
looking into this at the time.
944
00:37:33,354 --> 00:37:34,355
He goes, "Well, I think
I'm gonna do something."
945
00:37:34,459 --> 00:37:36,426
And I was like, "Okay."
946
00:37:36,530 --> 00:37:38,048
- So when you say,
"do something,"
947
00:37:38,152 --> 00:37:39,326
like, give them money?
948
00:37:39,429 --> 00:37:40,465
- Yeah, he was gonna
give them money,
949
00:37:40,568 --> 00:37:42,398
about $50,000 at the time
950
00:37:42,501 --> 00:37:44,227
because the returns
they were talking about
951
00:37:44,331 --> 00:37:45,849
were, like, close to 100%.
952
00:37:45,953 --> 00:37:48,162
You could do that
once or twice in movies.
953
00:37:48,266 --> 00:37:49,991
But consistently?
954
00:37:50,095 --> 00:37:54,064
Why wouldn't Netflix
figure this out and, like--
955
00:37:54,168 --> 00:37:55,618
- Doesn't smell right.
- Exactly.
956
00:37:55,721 --> 00:37:57,965
There was nothing good
that was gonna come of it.
957
00:38:01,279 --> 00:38:03,246
- I would see a title.
958
00:38:03,350 --> 00:38:05,455
Some of them were something
as ridiculous
959
00:38:05,559 --> 00:38:06,939
as "Satanic Panic."
960
00:38:07,043 --> 00:38:09,459
[metal music]
961
00:38:09,563 --> 00:38:11,185
It's not a film
I was ever gonna watch.
962
00:38:11,289 --> 00:38:15,465
And it was most often
in HBO Latin America
963
00:38:15,569 --> 00:38:18,226
or the Latin American markets
for Netflix.
964
00:38:18,330 --> 00:38:21,920
So the library of films
from which he pulled
965
00:38:22,023 --> 00:38:25,164
consisted mainly of titles
we'd never hear of.
966
00:38:25,268 --> 00:38:28,029
And from what I understood,
that made sense, right?
967
00:38:28,133 --> 00:38:30,100
Like, a movie that didn't cost
a lot to make,
968
00:38:30,204 --> 00:38:33,103
the financiers would be happy
to get 4 million bucks for it.
969
00:38:33,207 --> 00:38:34,277
And then we would pay for it,
970
00:38:34,381 --> 00:38:35,554
we would own
the rights to that,
971
00:38:35,658 --> 00:38:36,969
and then the streaming company
would give us
972
00:38:37,073 --> 00:38:38,454
this amount back.
973
00:38:38,557 --> 00:38:41,422
So I think that was one
of the smart things he did,
974
00:38:41,526 --> 00:38:42,941
was to use obscure titles
975
00:38:43,044 --> 00:38:45,806
that we would never
really know or even check on.
976
00:38:45,909 --> 00:38:47,601
[tense music]
977
00:38:47,704 --> 00:38:50,189
- Zach had a spider web
of lies he would tell
978
00:38:50,293 --> 00:38:53,848
to help his image,
his persona.
979
00:38:53,952 --> 00:38:56,610
He was always building
these lies up,
980
00:38:56,713 --> 00:39:00,165
that he was this
wildly successful investor,
981
00:39:00,268 --> 00:39:02,340
multiple business owner.
982
00:39:02,443 --> 00:39:04,549
Then from
a friends standpoint,
983
00:39:04,652 --> 00:39:06,723
this person had grown to be,
984
00:39:06,827 --> 00:39:09,485
you know, my closest
and best friend in LA.
985
00:39:09,588 --> 00:39:12,591
How do you get
so close to somebody,
986
00:39:12,695 --> 00:39:16,215
look someone in the eye,
and, you know,
987
00:39:16,319 --> 00:39:18,908
know that it's just not real?
988
00:39:19,011 --> 00:39:22,774
- It's too easy.
It's just too easy.
989
00:39:22,877 --> 00:39:25,949
- Hollywood has
an allure to criminals.
990
00:39:26,053 --> 00:39:28,918
They want to own homes
in Hollywood Hills
991
00:39:29,021 --> 00:39:30,195
and in Brentwood.
992
00:39:30,298 --> 00:39:32,024
They want to drive
expensive cars.
993
00:39:32,128 --> 00:39:36,374
And they want to be part
of that entire scene.
994
00:39:36,477 --> 00:39:37,961
- I got way too drunk,
stupidly hooked up
995
00:39:38,065 --> 00:39:40,826
with some girl
I had no business being with.
996
00:39:40,930 --> 00:39:42,138
The end.
997
00:39:43,346 --> 00:39:45,555
- Zach wanted to be famous.
998
00:39:45,659 --> 00:39:49,525
But unfortunately for Zach,
999
00:39:49,628 --> 00:39:53,183
he's a pretty fucking
terrible actor.
1000
00:39:53,287 --> 00:39:56,152
- [sputtering]
1001
00:39:58,844 --> 00:40:01,951
- Zach Horwitz,
that was his greatest role.
1002
00:40:02,054 --> 00:40:06,058
The real Zach
is closer to Zach Avery.
1003
00:40:06,162 --> 00:40:07,405
That's a cheater.
1004
00:40:07,508 --> 00:40:09,510
It's a liar.
It's a psychopath.
1005
00:40:09,614 --> 00:40:11,857
That's the real Zach.
1006
00:40:11,961 --> 00:40:16,414
- Zach was great at being
convincing to everyone,
1007
00:40:16,517 --> 00:40:18,139
except when he was on camera.
1008
00:40:20,176 --> 00:40:23,006
[gunshots]
1009
00:40:23,110 --> 00:40:24,905
- One of the mysteries was,
1010
00:40:25,008 --> 00:40:27,804
how is he getting these parts
in the first place?
1011
00:40:27,908 --> 00:40:30,324
- Do I know you?
1012
00:40:30,428 --> 00:40:32,637
- I'm the guy.
1013
00:40:32,740 --> 00:40:35,778
- What else is coming
down the pipe for you?
1014
00:40:36,744 --> 00:40:37,745
- We're gonna talk about
1015
00:40:37,849 --> 00:40:39,575
"The Last Moment of Clarity"
today.
1016
00:40:39,678 --> 00:40:42,060
Brian Cox, how did he
make you feel on the set?
1017
00:40:42,163 --> 00:40:43,441
- He was incredible.
1018
00:40:43,544 --> 00:40:44,994
He's just such a master
at his craft.
1019
00:40:45,097 --> 00:40:46,236
- "Gateway."
- Yeah.
1020
00:40:46,340 --> 00:40:48,238
- Olivia Munn.
- Dahlia!
1021
00:40:48,342 --> 00:40:49,895
- Mike?
Oh!
1022
00:40:49,999 --> 00:40:51,449
- This amazing talent,
do you just feel like
1023
00:40:51,552 --> 00:40:52,450
it forces you to up your game
immediately?
1024
00:40:52,553 --> 00:40:53,727
- It does.
1025
00:40:53,830 --> 00:40:55,660
It completely elevates
every single thing
1026
00:40:55,763 --> 00:40:57,351
you're doing because you know
1027
00:40:57,455 --> 00:40:59,664
you can't just
kind of phone it in.
1028
00:40:59,767 --> 00:41:03,599
- It started to look to me
like maybe he was putting
1029
00:41:03,702 --> 00:41:07,706
money from the Ponzi scheme
into the movies
1030
00:41:07,810 --> 00:41:10,882
to get the producers
to cast him.
1031
00:41:10,985 --> 00:41:12,746
- When it comes
to living in LA,
1032
00:41:12,849 --> 00:41:16,059
there's an undeniable pressure
to be somebody.
1033
00:41:16,163 --> 00:41:19,373
And I think
that pressure breaks people.
1034
00:41:19,477 --> 00:41:23,135
For Zach, it was very obvious
that he didn't want to wait.
1035
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:27,070
- They're coming.
1036
00:41:27,174 --> 00:41:28,762
- Stay here.
1037
00:41:28,865 --> 00:41:30,936
- If you go on these auditions
the normal way,
1038
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:33,629
I mean, you're gonna be going
on auditions a long time,
1039
00:41:33,732 --> 00:41:35,423
you know,
unless you just get lucky
1040
00:41:35,527 --> 00:41:37,322
and you're
that one in a million.
1041
00:41:37,425 --> 00:41:38,875
I'll tell you what,
any role he got,
1042
00:41:38,979 --> 00:41:42,292
it wasn't for his ability
in the audition.
1043
00:41:42,396 --> 00:41:44,985
- "Oh, ho, ho, coffee."
1044
00:41:45,088 --> 00:41:46,469
Remember B Man?
1045
00:41:46,573 --> 00:41:48,540
That dude from first-year
contracts class?
1046
00:41:48,644 --> 00:41:51,060
"Stomp on those bananas."
1047
00:41:52,924 --> 00:41:56,341
- As far as the ability
to cut a check...
1048
00:41:56,444 --> 00:41:57,411
- Yeah.
- Money talks.
1049
00:41:57,515 --> 00:41:59,206
- Well, yeah, definitely.
1050
00:41:59,309 --> 00:42:01,898
- Zach found that shortcut,
that way around
1051
00:42:02,002 --> 00:42:03,624
the one in a million
opportunity.
1052
00:42:03,728 --> 00:42:05,799
And he was buying
his way into roles.
1053
00:42:05,902 --> 00:42:08,387
Every single role,
whether it's major or minor,
1054
00:42:08,491 --> 00:42:11,563
Zach paid for
using investor funds.
1055
00:42:11,667 --> 00:42:12,806
- You may have
impressed someone.
1056
00:42:12,909 --> 00:42:14,428
You may have met someone
that I'm like,
1057
00:42:14,532 --> 00:42:16,844
"He doesn't fit for this
or I'm not gonna
1058
00:42:16,948 --> 00:42:19,260
bring him on to this project
because X, Y, or Z."
1059
00:42:19,364 --> 00:42:20,745
- I want to show you
something.
1060
00:42:20,848 --> 00:42:23,161
- "But I'm also doing
something in a month
1061
00:42:23,264 --> 00:42:24,749
"or someone else is doing
something that I know
1062
00:42:24,852 --> 00:42:26,854
that he may fit for."
1063
00:42:26,958 --> 00:42:29,236
- He began
creating relationships
1064
00:42:29,339 --> 00:42:30,720
with these producers.
1065
00:42:30,824 --> 00:42:32,929
And producers would say,
"Hey, well, I can get you,
1066
00:42:33,033 --> 00:42:35,380
you know, in this role
if you can give me X amount."
1067
00:42:35,483 --> 00:42:37,002
And he would pay it freely.
1068
00:42:37,106 --> 00:42:42,007
We're talking $100,000,
$200,000 for a small role.
1069
00:42:45,252 --> 00:42:47,841
- There were at least
four movies that he was in
1070
00:42:47,944 --> 00:42:50,291
that the Securities
and Exchange Commission
1071
00:42:50,395 --> 00:42:55,124
has confirmed that he used
proceeds from the Ponzi scheme
1072
00:42:55,227 --> 00:42:58,852
to help finance the movies
that he was cast in.
1073
00:42:58,955 --> 00:43:01,440
The exact amount is
not exactly clear.
1074
00:43:01,544 --> 00:43:03,477
But it's somewhere
in the $10 million,
1075
00:43:03,581 --> 00:43:05,617
$20 million range.
1076
00:43:05,721 --> 00:43:07,585
- I want to kind of get
into "The White Crow,"
1077
00:43:07,688 --> 00:43:09,379
directed by Ralph Fiennes--
1078
00:43:09,483 --> 00:43:12,141
and I wish I knew him,
and you do.
1079
00:43:12,244 --> 00:43:14,799
But what was it like to--
to work on that film?
1080
00:43:14,902 --> 00:43:16,973
- Yeah, it really was
1081
00:43:17,077 --> 00:43:18,388
an eye-opening experience
for me.
1082
00:43:18,492 --> 00:43:19,631
Yeah.
1083
00:43:19,735 --> 00:43:21,357
My specific role,
it's a guy named Michael.
1084
00:43:21,460 --> 00:43:23,946
He's an American journalist
that essentially was getting
1085
00:43:24,049 --> 00:43:27,225
the American perspective
on this kind of journey.
1086
00:43:28,778 --> 00:43:30,435
- Just having
that little glimpse
1087
00:43:30,538 --> 00:43:32,748
of seeing his face
on the big screen,
1088
00:43:32,851 --> 00:43:35,647
you know, it was all worth it
for him.
1089
00:43:35,751 --> 00:43:37,615
- Every new project
you go into,
1090
00:43:37,718 --> 00:43:40,100
you're nervous
because as you grow also,
1091
00:43:40,203 --> 00:43:42,171
I start thinking, like,
am I gonna be good in this?
1092
00:43:42,274 --> 00:43:43,482
Do I know what I'm doing?
1093
00:43:43,586 --> 00:43:44,760
You have
that imposter syndrome,
1094
00:43:44,863 --> 00:43:46,244
where it's like,
am I supposed to be here?
1095
00:43:46,347 --> 00:43:49,074
Are they gonna find out that
I'm this fraud the whole time?
1096
00:43:49,178 --> 00:43:52,664
- He was flying private jets
out to the sets.
1097
00:43:52,768 --> 00:43:55,529
One of the stories was
about him going out to film
1098
00:43:55,633 --> 00:43:57,186
a movie in Kentucky.
1099
00:43:57,289 --> 00:43:59,809
He arrived there
and I believe got paid
1100
00:43:59,913 --> 00:44:02,709
less than what he spent
on his accommodations.
1101
00:44:02,812 --> 00:44:04,055
- That's what happened here.
1102
00:44:06,057 --> 00:44:10,268
- Selling these
very unbelievable schemes,
1103
00:44:10,371 --> 00:44:12,201
I don't think
it's that hard in Hollywood
1104
00:44:12,304 --> 00:44:15,549
because people deal
with extraordinary stories
1105
00:44:15,653 --> 00:44:16,964
all the time.
1106
00:44:17,068 --> 00:44:19,380
And so there's a part of it
that makes it very easy,
1107
00:44:19,484 --> 00:44:21,555
where people are
very optimistic
1108
00:44:21,659 --> 00:44:23,281
and anything's possible.
1109
00:44:23,384 --> 00:44:24,869
[soft music]
1110
00:44:24,972 --> 00:44:26,042
- In many of these cases,
1111
00:44:26,146 --> 00:44:27,561
and in this case
in particular,
1112
00:44:27,665 --> 00:44:30,944
you build your credibility
through the people around you.
1113
00:44:31,047 --> 00:44:33,118
And then just over time,
it gets larger.
1114
00:44:33,222 --> 00:44:35,258
And as it appears to work,
you know,
1115
00:44:35,362 --> 00:44:37,502
more people, you know,
believe in it
1116
00:44:37,605 --> 00:44:39,987
and then start investing
in it.
1117
00:44:42,507 --> 00:44:44,854
- So I started to see Zach--
on his Instagram,
1118
00:44:44,958 --> 00:44:46,684
he's going
to Berlin Film Festival
1119
00:44:46,787 --> 00:44:49,617
and South by Southwest
and Cannes.
1120
00:44:49,721 --> 00:44:51,930
And I'm just like,
you know, damn.
1121
00:44:53,035 --> 00:44:54,968
I'm just kind of working away,
1122
00:44:55,071 --> 00:44:57,625
you know, at my kind of
original job in Orange County,
1123
00:44:57,729 --> 00:45:00,870
and I'm seeing Zach just--
just kind of living the dream.
1124
00:45:00,974 --> 00:45:04,115
You know, his cars improve
and house improve.
1125
00:45:04,218 --> 00:45:05,806
And I just couldn't
believe it, man.
1126
00:45:05,910 --> 00:45:08,982
It was cool to see.
1127
00:45:09,085 --> 00:45:11,881
- One of the important factors
for investors
1128
00:45:11,985 --> 00:45:14,884
is to see that, hey,
the guy has a track record.
1129
00:45:14,988 --> 00:45:17,093
And to prove that,
look at where he lives.
1130
00:45:17,197 --> 00:45:18,819
Look at his family.
Look at the cars.
1131
00:45:18,923 --> 00:45:20,338
Look at the watches.
1132
00:45:20,441 --> 00:45:21,960
I mean, who else has
a watch subscription service?
1133
00:45:22,064 --> 00:45:23,513
Why not buy a damn watch?
1134
00:45:23,617 --> 00:45:25,067
Why not have
a collection of watches?
1135
00:45:25,170 --> 00:45:28,484
He did all the things
to have the appearance
1136
00:45:28,587 --> 00:45:33,006
that he was the most
successful person he could be.
1137
00:45:33,109 --> 00:45:35,767
- In the era of social media,
you can create yourself
1138
00:45:35,871 --> 00:45:38,770
to be whatever you want.
1139
00:45:38,874 --> 00:45:41,152
The character of Zach Avery
kind of fit the mold
1140
00:45:41,255 --> 00:45:44,880
of that new kind
of con artist,
1141
00:45:44,983 --> 00:45:47,710
where you can
leverage technology
1142
00:45:47,814 --> 00:45:49,885
to be whoever you want
in this world.
1143
00:45:49,988 --> 00:45:53,336
- I think the persona
that Zach had
1144
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:54,613
rather carefully fashioned
1145
00:45:54,717 --> 00:45:58,100
was important for him
to attract money.
1146
00:45:58,203 --> 00:46:00,516
I think he needed people
to see him that way.
1147
00:46:00,619 --> 00:46:02,552
And then, of course,
it was also important to him
1148
00:46:02,656 --> 00:46:05,970
to present the husband he had
promised his wife to be,
1149
00:46:06,073 --> 00:46:07,557
that he was
gonna be successful,
1150
00:46:07,661 --> 00:46:08,869
that he was this great actor.
1151
00:46:08,973 --> 00:46:12,700
[melancholy music]
1152
00:46:12,804 --> 00:46:14,875
- Zach marries Mallory.
1153
00:46:14,979 --> 00:46:18,361
And they have two kids.
1154
00:46:18,465 --> 00:46:21,813
He's just living a lifestyle
now that, honestly,
1155
00:46:21,917 --> 00:46:23,228
only some of us dream about.
1156
00:46:23,332 --> 00:46:26,335
- This is on my Insta story.
Relax. Hold on.
1157
00:46:26,438 --> 00:46:30,166
- And you got to witness this
at every major life event
1158
00:46:30,270 --> 00:46:31,719
that Zach and Mallory have.
1159
00:46:31,823 --> 00:46:33,238
[cheers and applause]
1160
00:46:33,342 --> 00:46:36,448
- For me, it's very clear
that you are
1161
00:46:36,552 --> 00:46:39,141
an absolutely amazing mother.
1162
00:46:39,244 --> 00:46:40,349
- Whoo!
1163
00:46:40,452 --> 00:46:43,524
- You're an absolutely
amazing wife,
1164
00:46:43,628 --> 00:46:45,975
amazing friend...
- Yes.
1165
00:46:46,079 --> 00:46:47,597
- And an absolutely
amazing person.
1166
00:46:47,701 --> 00:46:49,289
- Whoo!
1167
00:46:49,392 --> 00:46:52,464
- So I fell in love with you
14 days before you turned 20.
1168
00:46:52,568 --> 00:46:54,432
[laughter]
1169
00:46:54,535 --> 00:46:57,435
- Whoo!
- Whoo!
1170
00:46:57,538 --> 00:47:01,163
- And now I've been with you
10 years and 14 days.
1171
00:47:01,266 --> 00:47:02,854
[laughter]
1172
00:47:02,958 --> 00:47:04,373
- Amazing.
1173
00:47:04,476 --> 00:47:06,237
- And I promise you,
I'm gonna love you
1174
00:47:06,340 --> 00:47:08,066
every fucking day
for the rest of my life.
1175
00:47:08,170 --> 00:47:12,381
[cheers and applause]
- Yeah, buddy.
1176
00:47:12,484 --> 00:47:14,107
- Mallory got serenaded.
1177
00:47:14,210 --> 00:47:16,523
And it was just
the most romantic
1178
00:47:16,626 --> 00:47:19,837
and probably intimate thing
I've ever been to.
1179
00:47:19,940 --> 00:47:21,390
You know, and it
honestly kind of made--
1180
00:47:21,493 --> 00:47:23,081
made all of us husbands
and boyfriends
1181
00:47:23,185 --> 00:47:24,565
kind of look bad
because, you know,
1182
00:47:24,669 --> 00:47:26,602
Zach put on quite the show.
1183
00:47:26,705 --> 00:47:31,331
And that was, I think,
the pinnacle of his success.
1184
00:47:31,434 --> 00:47:35,024
The closer you were to him,
the more you loved Zach,
1185
00:47:35,128 --> 00:47:39,201
the more he took advantage
of you.
1186
00:47:39,304 --> 00:47:41,893
- Do you think you could
love another woman?
1187
00:47:41,997 --> 00:47:43,515
- No, not if I have you.
1188
00:47:43,619 --> 00:47:45,897
You're one in million.
1189
00:47:50,488 --> 00:47:52,800
[soft dramatic music]
1190
00:47:52,904 --> 00:47:55,148
- As he was
drawing in investors,
1191
00:47:55,251 --> 00:47:56,390
the money he would bring in
1192
00:47:56,494 --> 00:47:57,978
would pay back
the earlier investors.
1193
00:47:58,082 --> 00:48:01,085
And you could reinvest
or you could cash out.
1194
00:48:01,188 --> 00:48:03,742
But the returns were so great
that people would reinvest.
1195
00:48:03,846 --> 00:48:06,780
- So you're constantly
just giving more.
1196
00:48:06,884 --> 00:48:08,402
You're never actually
making money.
1197
00:48:08,506 --> 00:48:11,405
You're just giving
more and more and more.
1198
00:48:12,648 --> 00:48:14,892
- After the first year or so,
1199
00:48:14,995 --> 00:48:16,169
you know the payments are
coming out.
1200
00:48:16,272 --> 00:48:17,687
They're coming out on time.
1201
00:48:17,791 --> 00:48:19,379
And everybody is
being made whole
1202
00:48:19,482 --> 00:48:21,070
and getting all the payments
that they were promised.
1203
00:48:21,174 --> 00:48:23,314
So we stopped
really paying attention.
1204
00:48:23,417 --> 00:48:26,110
- And he never act like
he needed the investment
1205
00:48:26,213 --> 00:48:28,595
or even wanted the investment.
1206
00:48:28,698 --> 00:48:29,907
He was always like, "Well,
1207
00:48:30,010 --> 00:48:31,598
I'll have to think about it,"
you know?
1208
00:48:31,701 --> 00:48:33,841
"Maybe. I don't know if I can.
We'll see."
1209
00:48:33,945 --> 00:48:35,982
You know, if you know
anything about sales,
1210
00:48:36,085 --> 00:48:37,880
you know "no's"
the strongest word in sales.
1211
00:48:37,984 --> 00:48:41,988
He was just an absolute
master manipulator.
1212
00:48:42,091 --> 00:48:43,299
- It seems oftentimes,
1213
00:48:43,403 --> 00:48:44,783
at least with
the Ponzi schemes
1214
00:48:44,887 --> 00:48:46,475
and these high-yield
investment frauds,
1215
00:48:46,578 --> 00:48:49,271
they don't really believe
that what they did was wrong.
1216
00:48:49,374 --> 00:48:51,790
Some of them actually believe
what they're doing is real,
1217
00:48:51,894 --> 00:48:54,517
even though
everything isn't real.
1218
00:48:54,621 --> 00:48:58,418
To these individuals,
the idea of itself being real
1219
00:48:58,521 --> 00:49:00,316
makes it real.
1220
00:49:00,903 --> 00:49:03,941
- But, of course, he's taking
the money out for himself.
1221
00:49:04,044 --> 00:49:08,117
And this is all
just a huge lie.
1222
00:49:11,327 --> 00:49:14,330
- The main reason
Ponzi schemes fail is,
1223
00:49:14,434 --> 00:49:17,816
the person running the scheme
is taking too much money out.
1224
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:19,922
They will start purchasing
luxury items.
1225
00:49:20,026 --> 00:49:22,166
They'll buy cars, homes.
1226
00:49:22,269 --> 00:49:23,477
They'll start developing
1227
00:49:23,581 --> 00:49:24,789
an entirely
different lifestyle
1228
00:49:24,892 --> 00:49:26,239
that's very extravagant.
1229
00:49:26,342 --> 00:49:28,724
They don't have
enough money coming in
1230
00:49:28,827 --> 00:49:31,554
to pay the Ponzi payment
because they've taken it.
1231
00:49:36,387 --> 00:49:39,424
- So here's another quote
from the blog.
1232
00:49:39,528 --> 00:49:42,876
"I was always obsessed
with belief in a superior life
1233
00:49:42,980 --> 00:49:45,913
"that existed
just beyond my grasp,
1234
00:49:46,017 --> 00:49:50,228
"a feeling that a better party
was happening somewhere else.
1235
00:49:50,332 --> 00:49:51,850
"But every once
in a while, however,
1236
00:49:51,954 --> 00:49:54,922
"this sensation was punctuated
by a visceral electric
1237
00:49:55,026 --> 00:49:59,582
sense of presence, times where
I truly felt like I belonged."
1238
00:50:02,654 --> 00:50:05,416
I am not sure
how to feel about this,
1239
00:50:05,519 --> 00:50:07,038
because, you know,
1240
00:50:07,142 --> 00:50:09,351
this is what he's choosing
to write about
1241
00:50:09,454 --> 00:50:13,769
while he's serving his 20-year
sentence in federal prison.
1242
00:50:13,872 --> 00:50:14,977
First of all,
I didn't even know
1243
00:50:15,081 --> 00:50:17,566
you could have a blog
in prison.
1244
00:50:17,669 --> 00:50:22,950
This is the very little,
subtle acknowledgment
1245
00:50:23,054 --> 00:50:24,780
of this scam that--
1246
00:50:24,883 --> 00:50:27,472
the closest thing he gets
to saying why he did it,
1247
00:50:27,576 --> 00:50:28,956
just because, you know,
there were times
1248
00:50:29,060 --> 00:50:30,786
when he felt like he belonged.
1249
00:50:34,617 --> 00:50:36,274
[indistinct chatter]
1250
00:50:36,378 --> 00:50:37,931
- If not, that's fine.
1251
00:50:38,035 --> 00:50:40,175
And actually--
I'm not exactly sure.
1252
00:50:40,278 --> 00:50:42,660
- Should I just look
in the lens?
1253
00:50:42,763 --> 00:50:44,282
- Hmm.
1254
00:50:44,386 --> 00:50:46,871
- I think there's something
especially sick about somebody
1255
00:50:46,974 --> 00:50:48,942
who could not only
take advantage
1256
00:50:49,046 --> 00:50:53,395
of their friends and family,
but use them as bait in a way.
1257
00:50:53,498 --> 00:50:56,432
- I don't know, like,
the psychology of this human
1258
00:50:56,536 --> 00:50:58,227
is fascinating.
1259
00:50:58,331 --> 00:51:02,576
- It's strange and curious
how somebody could have
1260
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:04,337
that much confidence
1261
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:06,822
and that little
of a conscience.
1262
00:51:06,925 --> 00:51:10,032
- I had some family members
lose their pensions
1263
00:51:10,136 --> 00:51:13,035
in the Bernie Madoff
Ponzi scheme,
1264
00:51:13,139 --> 00:51:14,554
which I'm sure
we all remember.
1265
00:51:14,657 --> 00:51:19,179
And I'm really curious
about the type of person
1266
00:51:19,283 --> 00:51:21,388
that could do that,
like, the egos involved
1267
00:51:21,492 --> 00:51:23,942
because I witnessed
the damage,
1268
00:51:24,046 --> 00:51:27,153
psychological and financial,
from the victims' side.
1269
00:51:27,256 --> 00:51:30,397
[somber music]
1270
00:51:30,501 --> 00:51:34,677
โช
1271
00:51:34,781 --> 00:51:36,714
- And come visit us
in Las Vegas when we re-open.
1272
00:51:36,817 --> 00:51:40,373
We'd love to have you.
- For sure. I'd love to come.
1273
00:51:40,476 --> 00:51:42,444
- In court,
one of his victims did say
1274
00:51:42,547 --> 00:51:47,173
that he had spent a weekend
with Zach in Las Vegas.
1275
00:51:48,277 --> 00:51:50,279
To take someone to Las Vegas
1276
00:51:50,383 --> 00:51:52,316
and hang out with them
for a weekend--
1277
00:51:52,419 --> 00:51:54,525
he's spending real
face-to-face time
1278
00:51:54,628 --> 00:51:55,526
with these people,
1279
00:51:55,629 --> 00:51:58,736
knowing that he's taking
their money
1280
00:51:58,839 --> 00:52:00,462
and never giving it back,
1281
00:52:00,565 --> 00:52:03,016
and these are
their life savings.
1282
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:07,848
That struck me
as incredibly predatory.
1283
00:52:07,952 --> 00:52:10,886
He's really leaving
these people destitute.
1284
00:52:10,989 --> 00:52:13,544
- Knowing that, you know,
I'm not some hedge fund
1285
00:52:13,647 --> 00:52:14,993
or one of the big investors,
I mean,
1286
00:52:15,097 --> 00:52:16,788
why did you need my money?
1287
00:52:16,892 --> 00:52:18,169
Tell me how I'm gonna, like,
1288
00:52:18,273 --> 00:52:19,412
pay the bills
that I have to pay.
1289
00:52:19,515 --> 00:52:21,138
What am I gonna do
with the money
1290
00:52:21,241 --> 00:52:22,967
that I was supposed
to have been saving up?
1291
00:52:23,070 --> 00:52:24,382
I've read the houses
and the cars
1292
00:52:24,486 --> 00:52:26,073
and the luxury watch service.
1293
00:52:26,177 --> 00:52:27,730
How did you sleep at night?
1294
00:52:27,834 --> 00:52:29,939
Did you wonder if the cops
were gonna knock on the door?
1295
00:52:30,043 --> 00:52:32,149
Or did you even think
about that
1296
00:52:32,252 --> 00:52:35,152
when you were
going through all this?
1297
00:52:37,361 --> 00:52:39,535
- Lo and behold,
how Zach operated
1298
00:52:39,639 --> 00:52:41,779
with the people
closest to him,
1299
00:52:41,882 --> 00:52:45,438
he didn't want anybody
being friends with anybody.
1300
00:52:45,541 --> 00:52:48,234
Mallory and I, we were close
at the beginning.
1301
00:52:48,337 --> 00:52:51,789
But as time went on,
we were just a little distant.
1302
00:52:51,892 --> 00:52:54,032
I could tell there was
just something off.
1303
00:52:54,136 --> 00:52:55,793
And I couldn't put
my finger on it.
1304
00:52:55,896 --> 00:52:58,865
And come to find,
1305
00:52:58,968 --> 00:53:02,040
he was pinning everybody
against each other,
1306
00:53:02,144 --> 00:53:04,491
especially everybody close
in his life.
1307
00:53:04,595 --> 00:53:06,597
He didn't want me
talking too much to Mallory.
1308
00:53:06,700 --> 00:53:08,806
He didn't want her
talking to me either
1309
00:53:08,909 --> 00:53:10,048
because Zach knew
1310
00:53:10,152 --> 00:53:11,878
the more time I'd spend
with Mallory,
1311
00:53:11,981 --> 00:53:14,156
I'd start asking
more questions.
1312
00:53:14,260 --> 00:53:15,364
The more time I'd spend
1313
00:53:15,468 --> 00:53:17,021
with some of his other
LA friends
1314
00:53:17,124 --> 00:53:19,023
and some of his
acting friends,
1315
00:53:19,126 --> 00:53:21,612
and I'd bring up,
you know, 1inMM,
1316
00:53:21,715 --> 00:53:23,614
And then
they would ask questions.
1317
00:53:23,717 --> 00:53:28,274
So he kept everybody
on their own individual island
1318
00:53:28,377 --> 00:53:31,415
while he masterfully
manipulated them
1319
00:53:31,518 --> 00:53:33,279
and everyone around them.
1320
00:53:33,382 --> 00:53:36,558
We could all be
just his own personal pawns
1321
00:53:36,661 --> 00:53:37,731
in his own game.
1322
00:53:40,424 --> 00:53:41,563
- At this point in time,
1323
00:53:41,666 --> 00:53:43,875
the investment had grown
quite large.
1324
00:53:43,979 --> 00:53:46,223
The payment amounts that were
being sent back and forth,
1325
00:53:46,326 --> 00:53:49,329
they were
in the millions of dollars.
1326
00:53:49,433 --> 00:53:50,537
- I think there is
1327
00:53:50,641 --> 00:53:53,126
kind of a runaway
freight train quality
1328
00:53:53,230 --> 00:53:56,578
to what wound up happening.
1329
00:53:56,681 --> 00:54:00,547
- Zach was able to create this
aura around you of legitimacy
1330
00:54:00,651 --> 00:54:02,825
by associating
with other people,
1331
00:54:02,929 --> 00:54:06,415
like Howard Schultz,
who are legitimate.
1332
00:54:06,519 --> 00:54:09,867
- We were told that
Howard Schultz had bankrolled
1333
00:54:09,970 --> 00:54:11,558
his initial investments.
1334
00:54:11,662 --> 00:54:14,630
And from there,
the story went on
1335
00:54:14,734 --> 00:54:17,737
and became kind of this legend
of Zach.
1336
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:20,878
- That's something that's been
missing from this story,
1337
00:54:20,981 --> 00:54:25,572
is how much this relationship
Zach conveyed he had
1338
00:54:25,676 --> 00:54:29,542
with Howard Schultz
and these very powerful people
1339
00:54:29,645 --> 00:54:32,890
was all a part
of Zach's persona.
1340
00:54:32,993 --> 00:54:35,824
- I dream the kind of dreams
that other people said
1341
00:54:35,927 --> 00:54:37,274
would not be possible.
1342
00:54:37,377 --> 00:54:38,516
- He'd have his phone out.
1343
00:54:38,620 --> 00:54:40,622
And his phone would
literally buzz.
1344
00:54:40,725 --> 00:54:41,864
[phone buzzes]
1345
00:54:41,968 --> 00:54:44,764
And he'd look at it and say,
"Oh, it's Howard again."
1346
00:54:44,867 --> 00:54:46,144
He would call him Howie.
1347
00:54:46,248 --> 00:54:47,629
Then he'd show
the text message.
1348
00:54:47,732 --> 00:54:50,356
Like, how are you supposed to
know this is fake, you know?
1349
00:54:50,459 --> 00:54:52,358
When you're seeing
live emails on his computer
1350
00:54:52,461 --> 00:54:54,325
and you're shown text messages
1351
00:54:54,429 --> 00:54:57,535
with their names and--
and you're even receiving--
1352
00:54:57,639 --> 00:55:01,298
supposedly receiving emails
from Howard Schultz himself.
1353
00:55:01,401 --> 00:55:03,541
These characters
in Zach's story
1354
00:55:03,645 --> 00:55:05,474
were so real to all of us.
1355
00:55:05,578 --> 00:55:08,201
It was uncanny how timely
1356
00:55:08,305 --> 00:55:11,446
these text messages
came in as well.
1357
00:55:11,549 --> 00:55:13,275
- We do take it at face value.
1358
00:55:13,379 --> 00:55:15,657
I find it hard to,
in my life, assume
1359
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:17,383
that somebody is lying to me.
1360
00:55:17,486 --> 00:55:19,212
When I heard that
Howard Schultz was involved,
1361
00:55:19,316 --> 00:55:20,731
it made sense to me
in the sense
1362
00:55:20,834 --> 00:55:22,526
that this guy must have had
some money,
1363
00:55:22,629 --> 00:55:25,322
seed money, to start
somewhere along the line.
1364
00:55:25,425 --> 00:55:28,048
And that he had found himself
in a relationship
1365
00:55:28,152 --> 00:55:29,947
with Howard Schultz,
it's like,
1366
00:55:30,050 --> 00:55:33,122
seemed fortuitous for him,
but it certainly could happen.
1367
00:55:33,226 --> 00:55:36,160
[dramatic music]
1368
00:55:36,263 --> 00:55:43,063
โช
1369
00:55:44,927 --> 00:55:47,792
- Zach and I go out one night
just to hang out and--
1370
00:55:47,896 --> 00:55:49,449
at least what I thought
was just some--
1371
00:55:49,553 --> 00:55:51,900
some innocent fun,
just to catch up.
1372
00:55:55,352 --> 00:55:56,525
[phone dings]
1373
00:55:56,629 --> 00:55:58,838
He takes out his phone
and shows a live message
1374
00:55:58,941 --> 00:56:02,669
interaction with Ted Sarandos,
the man in charge of Netflix.
1375
00:56:02,773 --> 00:56:04,913
Ted Sarandos and him are
going back and forth.
1376
00:56:05,016 --> 00:56:08,606
And Ted asks Zach if he's
ready to sell his library yet.
1377
00:56:08,710 --> 00:56:12,748
He's got an over 400,
500 film library, supposedly,
1378
00:56:12,852 --> 00:56:16,303
that Ted would acquire
for anywhere from 400
1379
00:56:16,407 --> 00:56:18,375
to 700 grand apiece,
1380
00:56:18,478 --> 00:56:22,931
with 11, 12, 13 years left
of film rights.
1381
00:56:23,034 --> 00:56:25,589
And Zach responds with,
"It depends."
1382
00:56:25,692 --> 00:56:28,281
And then Ted responds with,
"Depends on what?"
1383
00:56:28,385 --> 00:56:30,525
And Zach says, "The zeros."
1384
00:56:30,628 --> 00:56:33,873
I'm seeing this
live on his phone.
1385
00:56:33,976 --> 00:56:36,531
Ted sends over an offer.
1386
00:56:38,429 --> 00:56:41,018
It's a massive offer.
1387
00:56:41,121 --> 00:56:44,435
Zach hits the floor,
1388
00:56:44,539 --> 00:56:48,232
falls down to his knees,
and starts crying.
1389
00:56:48,335 --> 00:56:52,616
โช
1390
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:54,756
And he's saying,
"Craig, we made it.
1391
00:56:54,859 --> 00:56:55,964
We did it."
1392
00:56:56,067 --> 00:56:57,448
I start crying.
1393
00:56:59,001 --> 00:57:03,523
This is just the greatest
thing that's ever happened.
1394
00:57:03,627 --> 00:57:05,145
Zach's telling me how,
1395
00:57:05,249 --> 00:57:06,423
"You're gonna be
taken care of.
1396
00:57:06,526 --> 00:57:08,286
Gonna get
a portion of the sale."
1397
00:57:08,390 --> 00:57:11,773
And--and I'm just
through the moon.
1398
00:57:11,876 --> 00:57:14,292
You know, I run home and,
you know, tell my girlfriend.
1399
00:57:14,396 --> 00:57:16,536
And we're just so excited.
1400
00:57:18,331 --> 00:57:20,713
He's got me tuned up.
1401
00:57:20,816 --> 00:57:24,958
I am all in on 1inMM Capital.
1402
00:57:26,857 --> 00:57:28,721
- I've been looking through
Mallory's divorce filing
1403
00:57:28,824 --> 00:57:31,309
and I actually found
the answer
1404
00:57:31,413 --> 00:57:32,897
to a huge question
in this case.
1405
00:57:33,001 --> 00:57:35,624
So here it says, "There have
been countless text messages
1406
00:57:35,728 --> 00:57:37,212
"and emails
Zach would show me.
1407
00:57:37,315 --> 00:57:39,732
"Many times I would see him
receive notifications
1408
00:57:39,835 --> 00:57:41,768
"while he would be
sitting right next to me.
1409
00:57:41,872 --> 00:57:44,357
"Now I have learned
that Zach was actually sending
1410
00:57:44,461 --> 00:57:45,979
"the fabricated messages
to himself
1411
00:57:46,083 --> 00:57:48,154
"using an app to make it
appear as though
1412
00:57:48,257 --> 00:57:50,259
"he was receiving
communications
1413
00:57:50,363 --> 00:57:51,640
from third parties."
1414
00:57:51,744 --> 00:57:54,781
So check this out.
1415
00:57:54,885 --> 00:57:57,681
I put in my phone number.
1416
00:57:57,784 --> 00:57:59,890
I put in the message.
1417
00:57:59,993 --> 00:58:02,962
"Hey, Zach, ready
to sell me your library?"
1418
00:58:03,065 --> 00:58:08,864
And then I can select
today's date and the time.
1419
00:58:08,968 --> 00:58:10,279
[phone dings]
1420
00:58:10,383 --> 00:58:13,351
Oh, it's Ted Sarandos.
1421
00:58:13,455 --> 00:58:15,664
"Hey, Zach, ready
to sell me your library?"
1422
00:58:15,768 --> 00:58:17,321
Then all I have to do,
if I'm him,
1423
00:58:17,424 --> 00:58:20,117
is memorize my lines.
1424
00:58:20,220 --> 00:58:22,050
"That depends."
1425
00:58:22,153 --> 00:58:23,327
I send that back.
1426
00:58:23,430 --> 00:58:24,570
I already have
another one coming in.
1427
00:58:24,673 --> 00:58:25,881
"Depends on what?"
1428
00:58:25,985 --> 00:58:28,021
"The zeros," and et cetera.
1429
00:58:30,058 --> 00:58:34,096
- To locate real people
and create communications
1430
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:37,237
with these people and then
sending them to investors
1431
00:58:37,341 --> 00:58:39,481
and saying, "Look,
I'm talking to these people,"
1432
00:58:39,585 --> 00:58:41,828
when really you're not.
1433
00:58:41,932 --> 00:58:44,106
Zach Horwitz's ability
to produce
1434
00:58:44,210 --> 00:58:47,213
documents that support that
was unique.
1435
00:58:47,316 --> 00:58:51,528
- The amount of work involved
in keeping track
1436
00:58:51,631 --> 00:58:55,048
of all of these different
deals is unbelievable.
1437
00:58:55,152 --> 00:58:56,360
[phone dings]
1438
00:58:56,463 --> 00:58:58,707
He's got hundreds of millions
of dollars on the table
1439
00:58:58,811 --> 00:59:00,675
that he's got to keep track of
and make sure people are
1440
00:59:00,778 --> 00:59:03,091
getting repaid
and bring in new money
1441
00:59:03,194 --> 00:59:05,783
to make sure it's possible
to repay them.
1442
00:59:05,887 --> 00:59:09,822
It's just really,
really elaborate.
1443
00:59:09,925 --> 00:59:12,238
You had to realize
that at some point,
1444
00:59:12,341 --> 00:59:15,724
the whole thing was gonna
collapse under its own weight.
1445
00:59:15,828 --> 00:59:17,105
- We'll see what happens.
1446
00:59:17,208 --> 00:59:18,382
You never know what
tomorrow holds, obviously.
1447
00:59:18,485 --> 00:59:20,729
[laughs]
- Yeah.
1448
00:59:20,833 --> 00:59:22,766
- Behind the scenes,
things were beginning
1449
00:59:22,869 --> 00:59:25,872
to fall apart for Zach Horwitz
and 1inMM Capital.
1450
00:59:27,978 --> 00:59:30,981
- When we first stopped
getting payments,
1451
00:59:31,084 --> 00:59:33,880
my wife's first reaction was,
"What's going on?
1452
00:59:33,984 --> 00:59:36,158
There's some kind
of scam happening."
1453
00:59:36,262 --> 00:59:37,643
She had, just prior to that,
1454
00:59:37,746 --> 00:59:39,852
wanted to pull
all the money out.
1455
00:59:39,955 --> 00:59:42,302
We were assured
everything was fine.
1456
00:59:42,406 --> 00:59:44,615
There's a little bit of panic
that sets in.
1457
00:59:44,719 --> 00:59:46,755
[tense music]
1458
00:59:46,859 --> 00:59:49,171
- So there are really
two parts to this fraud.
1459
00:59:49,275 --> 00:59:52,381
The first part was the actual
fraud itself, the agreements,
1460
00:59:52,485 --> 00:59:54,314
getting the investors
to invest.
1461
00:59:54,418 --> 00:59:57,559
Then at the end of 2019
when the payments stopped,
1462
00:59:57,663 --> 00:59:59,043
what could be determined was,
1463
00:59:59,147 --> 01:00:01,183
wasn't getting enough
new investor money
1464
01:00:01,287 --> 01:00:03,392
to repay existing investors.
1465
01:00:03,496 --> 01:00:07,500
And that's why the investment
collapsed at that point.
1466
01:00:07,604 --> 01:00:10,676
This is where part two
of the fraud starts.
1467
01:00:11,918 --> 01:00:15,128
- Zach just sending
text messages
1468
01:00:15,232 --> 01:00:19,477
and email communications
on the daily.
1469
01:00:19,581 --> 01:00:21,756
- We had screenshots
of text messages
1470
01:00:21,859 --> 01:00:22,929
that were
supposed to have been
1471
01:00:23,033 --> 01:00:24,690
between him
and HBO or Netflix,
1472
01:00:24,793 --> 01:00:27,693
like, why--why have things
suddenly changed?
1473
01:00:27,796 --> 01:00:30,074
And more importantly,
both these massive companies
1474
01:00:30,178 --> 01:00:31,558
had stopped paying,
coincidentally,
1475
01:00:31,662 --> 01:00:33,526
at the same time.
1476
01:00:33,630 --> 01:00:35,217
- I mean, we think
we're just in,
1477
01:00:35,321 --> 01:00:38,186
like, kind of this war
to receive payment.
1478
01:00:38,289 --> 01:00:40,015
- And then once
it starts falling apart,
1479
01:00:40,119 --> 01:00:44,848
he's now having to create
all this false documentation,
1480
01:00:44,951 --> 01:00:48,852
emails from HBO and Netflix.
1481
01:00:48,955 --> 01:00:50,750
- It just became more
and more convoluted for him.
1482
01:00:50,854 --> 01:00:52,165
And, of course,
each time he lies,
1483
01:00:52,269 --> 01:00:54,789
he's got to back that up
with more.
1484
01:00:54,892 --> 01:00:57,274
I would imagine
that was his full-time job.
1485
01:00:57,377 --> 01:01:01,899
When he wasn't filming,
he was forging documents.
1486
01:01:02,003 --> 01:01:04,246
- We call those
lulling statements.
1487
01:01:04,350 --> 01:01:07,491
And what they're doing is
buying themselves time,
1488
01:01:07,594 --> 01:01:09,148
either to bring in
new investors,
1489
01:01:09,251 --> 01:01:12,013
get influx of money
so they can pay the people,
1490
01:01:12,116 --> 01:01:14,774
or, if this is really the end,
1491
01:01:14,878 --> 01:01:16,431
this may be the time
that they're
1492
01:01:16,534 --> 01:01:22,609
going to exit the Ponzi scheme
and then make a run for it.
1493
01:01:23,231 --> 01:01:25,440
- You see it oftentimes
in these Ponzi schemes.
1494
01:01:25,543 --> 01:01:29,651
But the extent to which
he really went down that path
1495
01:01:29,755 --> 01:01:32,378
is like probably nothing
I've seen before.
1496
01:01:32,481 --> 01:01:35,761
And that, in turn, caused
more damage to investors
1497
01:01:35,864 --> 01:01:37,314
because now they believe that,
1498
01:01:37,417 --> 01:01:40,489
"Oh, he's actually working
to recover our money."
1499
01:01:40,593 --> 01:01:41,698
And these--these are
large companies.
1500
01:01:41,801 --> 01:01:43,147
These are
legitimate companies.
1501
01:01:43,251 --> 01:01:45,184
And they're gonna make good
on these payments.
1502
01:01:45,287 --> 01:01:48,049
So now these investors
are now digging themselves
1503
01:01:48,152 --> 01:01:50,534
into further financial loss.
1504
01:01:50,637 --> 01:01:52,916
- He came after myself
and my parents
1505
01:01:53,019 --> 01:01:56,298
for any last dime that
he could squeeze out of us.
1506
01:01:56,402 --> 01:01:58,128
And we didn't think,
in a million years,
1507
01:01:58,231 --> 01:02:01,303
that, you know, I'd never
see that money again,
1508
01:02:01,407 --> 01:02:03,961
that my parents would never
see their retirement again.
1509
01:02:05,894 --> 01:02:09,656
- Regarding Netflix,
once the audit's done,
1510
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:12,176
hoping to get a date
when they're gonna pay.
1511
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:16,422
That's kind of the latest
and greatest.
1512
01:02:16,525 --> 01:02:18,976
And if Netflix pays,
we get some breathing room
1513
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:20,909
and get to survive.
1514
01:02:21,013 --> 01:02:23,912
- Scott Cohen was
playing tennis at a club.
1515
01:02:24,016 --> 01:02:27,744
And he ended up playing
with a man who was in charge
1516
01:02:27,847 --> 01:02:30,470
of Howard Schultz's finances.
1517
01:02:30,574 --> 01:02:32,990
Scott said to him, "Hey,
it's sort of a small world.
1518
01:02:33,094 --> 01:02:35,752
I work with Zach Horwitz."
1519
01:02:35,855 --> 01:02:38,168
And the guy looks
and says, "Who?"
1520
01:02:38,271 --> 01:02:40,032
He said,
"Well, you know, Zach.
1521
01:02:40,135 --> 01:02:42,379
"Sometimes Zach Avery.
But he's--he's an actor.
1522
01:02:42,482 --> 01:02:46,072
He does all the film
finance deals with Howard."
1523
01:02:46,176 --> 01:02:49,006
And he looked at him and said,
"I don't know who that is.
1524
01:02:49,110 --> 01:02:51,250
Never heard of him."
1525
01:02:51,353 --> 01:02:52,907
He didn't tell me that
1526
01:02:53,010 --> 01:02:55,806
until everything began
to fall apart.
1527
01:02:55,910 --> 01:02:57,394
He just kind of kept it
to himself.
1528
01:02:57,497 --> 01:03:01,191
I think he started to realize
that things weren't as rosy
1529
01:03:01,294 --> 01:03:03,434
as he was trying
to make them out to be.
1530
01:03:05,885 --> 01:03:08,025
- Clearly, you can see
everybody is motivated
1531
01:03:08,129 --> 01:03:09,855
and pushing,
other than the fucking people
1532
01:03:09,958 --> 01:03:11,132
that owe us the money,
1533
01:03:11,235 --> 01:03:13,720
which is just
a fucking disgrace.
1534
01:03:13,824 --> 01:03:15,550
- He hired counsels
to represent him
1535
01:03:15,653 --> 01:03:17,379
in fake litigation.
1536
01:03:17,483 --> 01:03:19,899
- Another reason why we all
felt this was legitimate--
1537
01:03:20,003 --> 01:03:21,763
his lawyers,
from a very big law firm,
1538
01:03:21,867 --> 01:03:24,007
reached out
and said things like,
1539
01:03:24,110 --> 01:03:27,389
they want nobody to try
and contact HBO or Netflix
1540
01:03:27,493 --> 01:03:30,289
because that would
jeopardize the relationship
1541
01:03:30,392 --> 01:03:32,981
that Zach had cultivated
over these number of years.
1542
01:03:33,085 --> 01:03:36,605
And so we were instructed
basically not to do so.
1543
01:03:36,709 --> 01:03:37,779
- So I go to Zach.
1544
01:03:37,883 --> 01:03:39,056
And I'm like,
"Zach, you know, hey,
1545
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:40,471
"you know,
we got our house here
1546
01:03:40,575 --> 01:03:42,819
that we're gonna lose
if I don't get my money back."
1547
01:03:42,922 --> 01:03:43,889
He's like,
"Oh, man, I'm sorry.
1548
01:03:43,992 --> 01:03:45,269
"You know, it should be paid.
1549
01:03:45,373 --> 01:03:46,995
It's gonna be paid any time.
Here, look."
1550
01:03:47,099 --> 01:03:49,239
And then he'd forward emails
and forward communication
1551
01:03:49,342 --> 01:03:50,930
or show on his phone
that, you know,
1552
01:03:51,034 --> 01:03:52,069
things were gonna be paid.
1553
01:03:52,173 --> 01:03:54,278
So if there was any a time
1554
01:03:54,382 --> 01:03:58,973
where Zach could have
just maybe looked out
1555
01:03:59,076 --> 01:04:03,529
for myself,
my family, my fiancรฉ,
1556
01:04:03,632 --> 01:04:05,462
that would have been it.
1557
01:04:05,565 --> 01:04:10,018
He had no financial gain
by letting us lose our home
1558
01:04:10,122 --> 01:04:12,124
and keep putting money
out to this home.
1559
01:04:12,227 --> 01:04:14,264
He could have just said,
you know, "Hey, Craig,
1560
01:04:14,367 --> 01:04:15,990
"there's gonna be
other houses.
1561
01:04:16,093 --> 01:04:17,543
"You know, I would just wait
for this HBO stuff
1562
01:04:17,646 --> 01:04:19,027
to get cleared up."
1563
01:04:19,131 --> 01:04:20,891
Then I would have been
begrudgingly like, "Oh, fine.
1564
01:04:20,995 --> 01:04:21,961
"You know,
we just lost our house,
1565
01:04:22,065 --> 01:04:23,273
but we'll get another one."
1566
01:04:23,376 --> 01:04:25,965
But that just shows me
that Zach
1567
01:04:26,069 --> 01:04:29,969
is just absolutely soulless.
1568
01:04:34,629 --> 01:04:36,355
Two weeks go by.
1569
01:04:36,458 --> 01:04:38,978
And we finally think
we're coming to agreement now
1570
01:04:39,082 --> 01:04:41,705
with WarnerMedia,
you know, the owner,
1571
01:04:41,808 --> 01:04:43,810
the parent company of HBO.
1572
01:04:43,914 --> 01:04:45,502
And then, of course,
COVID hits.
1573
01:04:45,605 --> 01:04:47,780
- The entertainment industry
in California has been
1574
01:04:47,884 --> 01:04:50,024
decimated by COVID-19.
1575
01:04:50,127 --> 01:04:51,508
- Netflix shutting down
production
1576
01:04:51,611 --> 01:04:54,994
on all of its scripted
television and film projects.
1577
01:04:55,098 --> 01:04:56,064
- You know, now we're into,
you know,
1578
01:04:56,168 --> 01:04:57,410
May and June and July.
1579
01:04:57,514 --> 01:04:59,999
And what a perfect
built-in excuse
1580
01:05:00,103 --> 01:05:02,381
for Zach to play off of.
1581
01:05:02,484 --> 01:05:05,211
- The individuals perpetrating
the frauds often use
1582
01:05:05,315 --> 01:05:09,146
current events as reasons
for why the investment
1583
01:05:09,250 --> 01:05:10,665
isn't working anymore.
1584
01:05:10,768 --> 01:05:13,323
- Everything was going fine,
except that the attorney
1585
01:05:13,426 --> 01:05:16,050
for Netflix just got COVID, right?
1586
01:05:16,153 --> 01:05:18,362
And then I said,
"I mean, this is strange
1587
01:05:18,466 --> 01:05:21,400
because Netflix has
more than one attorney."
1588
01:05:21,503 --> 01:05:24,403
But, of course, each time
any investor brought up
1589
01:05:24,506 --> 01:05:29,166
any concerns, they were met
with explanations and answers
1590
01:05:29,270 --> 01:05:30,961
that were meant to satiate us.
1591
01:05:31,065 --> 01:05:33,584
And for a period of time,
it did.
1592
01:05:33,688 --> 01:05:36,933
- And it was just
a nightmarish year of COVID,
1593
01:05:37,036 --> 01:05:38,831
first and foremost, and then,
1594
01:05:38,935 --> 01:05:40,729
you know, dealing
with this disaster
1595
01:05:40,833 --> 01:05:41,938
of not having any funds.
1596
01:05:42,041 --> 01:05:43,422
You know, he cleaned us out.
1597
01:05:43,525 --> 01:05:47,115
He cleaned myself, my family,
and closest friends out.
1598
01:05:47,219 --> 01:05:49,014
- If you look back
at some of the texts
1599
01:05:49,117 --> 01:05:51,085
that we're getting
during the time
1600
01:05:51,188 --> 01:05:54,847
that we had ceased being paid,
1601
01:05:54,951 --> 01:05:57,298
there was just
a sort of a "bro" element.
1602
01:05:57,401 --> 01:05:59,369
I don't know if there's
a better way to put it.
1603
01:05:59,472 --> 01:06:03,511
Here we have a member
of JJMT saying,
1604
01:06:03,614 --> 01:06:05,582
"This year fucking sucked.
1605
01:06:05,685 --> 01:06:08,688
"But hoping for a quick
blastoff of positivity
1606
01:06:08,792 --> 01:06:10,414
starting next week, boys."
1607
01:06:10,518 --> 01:06:15,799
Then Zach responds, "100,
double exclamation point.
1608
01:06:15,902 --> 01:06:18,457
"Fuck 2020 in all ways.
1609
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:20,804
"2021, baby.
1610
01:06:20,907 --> 01:06:25,015
LFG." Let's fucking go.
1611
01:06:28,674 --> 01:06:32,436
- It takes a specific type
of person, I think,
1612
01:06:32,540 --> 01:06:34,231
to do this.
1613
01:06:34,335 --> 01:06:37,579
I don't think most people
can do it,
1614
01:06:37,683 --> 01:06:40,410
at least not on the level
that we're talking about,
1615
01:06:40,513 --> 01:06:42,895
where you're talking about
tens of millions of dollars
1616
01:06:42,999 --> 01:06:45,139
and you're going
to destroy these people.
1617
01:06:45,242 --> 01:06:48,038
They're going to lose
their, you know, life savings.
1618
01:06:48,142 --> 01:06:49,453
They're going to lose
their homes.
1619
01:06:49,557 --> 01:06:52,491
That's a particular level
of human callousness
1620
01:06:52,594 --> 01:06:55,597
that most people
probably don't have.
1621
01:06:55,701 --> 01:06:58,221
- A lot of actors have
a deep insecurity.
1622
01:06:58,324 --> 01:07:00,878
And it's one of the reasons
why they want to be on film,
1623
01:07:00,982 --> 01:07:02,708
why they want to be
someone different,
1624
01:07:02,811 --> 01:07:05,607
why they want to portray
these other characters.
1625
01:07:05,711 --> 01:07:08,058
And I think that's part
of what drove him to that.
1626
01:07:08,162 --> 01:07:09,404
But I think
most importantly for him
1627
01:07:09,508 --> 01:07:11,268
was just this idea of fame.
1628
01:07:11,372 --> 01:07:14,478
And he was willing to do
whatever it took to get there.
1629
01:07:18,344 --> 01:07:21,623
- You're gonna need something
when you get there, no?
1630
01:07:21,727 --> 01:07:23,694
- Thank you.
1631
01:07:23,798 --> 01:07:28,389
- Very few Ponzi schemers
actually have a exit strategy.
1632
01:07:28,492 --> 01:07:32,600
They sometimes flee and get
out of the jurisdiction.
1633
01:07:32,703 --> 01:07:35,844
But it's hard
to really disappear now.
1634
01:07:37,743 --> 01:07:40,090
- Can you show us how it all
kind of breaks down?
1635
01:07:40,194 --> 01:07:42,230
- You've got several
of these investors.
1636
01:07:42,334 --> 01:07:44,646
They're paying in.
Okay?
1637
01:07:44,750 --> 01:07:46,372
These people are
earning their returns.
1638
01:07:46,476 --> 01:07:48,374
And somebody
in one of these tiers,
1639
01:07:48,478 --> 01:07:52,033
let's say it's this person,
draws out.
1640
01:07:52,137 --> 01:07:54,380
And maybe he recruited.
1641
01:07:54,484 --> 01:07:56,279
Well, now, it's not enough
to support it.
1642
01:07:56,382 --> 01:07:58,729
And the whole thing collapses.
1643
01:07:58,833 --> 01:08:01,215
So nothing's coming in.
1644
01:08:01,318 --> 01:08:04,114
And at the same time,
the people
1645
01:08:04,218 --> 01:08:07,083
that got screwed down here,
at the bottom,
1646
01:08:07,186 --> 01:08:10,120
are just going to the police.
1647
01:08:10,224 --> 01:08:12,916
- I don't know that there's
a lot more time left
1648
01:08:13,019 --> 01:08:16,092
in the patience box
with 1inMM.
1649
01:08:16,195 --> 01:08:19,198
This is a real
fucking disaster.
1650
01:08:19,302 --> 01:08:22,615
- I think that Scott,
at that time,
1651
01:08:22,719 --> 01:08:25,308
actually reached out
to the FBI.
1652
01:08:26,930 --> 01:08:30,278
And that's when it kind of
all came crumbling down.
1653
01:08:32,315 --> 01:08:33,971
- The case was initiated.
1654
01:08:34,075 --> 01:08:36,560
A victim attorney
contacted the FBI office,
1655
01:08:36,664 --> 01:08:38,459
that they believe that
Zach Horwitz had committed
1656
01:08:38,562 --> 01:08:41,600
a fraud against their clients.
1657
01:08:41,703 --> 01:08:44,706
- One of the first things
we do in these fraud cases
1658
01:08:44,810 --> 01:08:46,363
is the financial analysis.
1659
01:08:46,467 --> 01:08:49,366
The FBI has created an entire
cadre of forensic accountants
1660
01:08:49,470 --> 01:08:51,437
in addition
to the special agents.
1661
01:08:51,541 --> 01:08:53,163
And so they get
the bank accounts
1662
01:08:53,267 --> 01:08:55,372
and then trace
where all the money went.
1663
01:08:55,476 --> 01:08:56,649
- The FBI was on the case.
1664
01:08:56,753 --> 01:08:58,686
The SEC was on the case.
1665
01:08:58,789 --> 01:09:00,101
- We know what's going on.
1666
01:09:00,205 --> 01:09:01,689
And then we interview
the victims
1667
01:09:01,792 --> 01:09:04,554
to see what they thought
they were investing in.
1668
01:09:04,657 --> 01:09:06,970
- Oftentimes,
these investigations can last
1669
01:09:07,073 --> 01:09:10,491
6 months, 18 months,
even years.
1670
01:09:10,594 --> 01:09:12,493
One of the things that
enabled this investigation,
1671
01:09:12,596 --> 01:09:15,254
in particular, to move quickly
was the documentation
1672
01:09:15,358 --> 01:09:17,291
that the victim investors had.
1673
01:09:17,394 --> 01:09:19,396
- One of the key elements
of this is,
1674
01:09:19,500 --> 01:09:22,503
was there a scheme
to defraud the victims?
1675
01:09:22,606 --> 01:09:24,884
The way we prove the scheme
is showing what they were told
1676
01:09:24,988 --> 01:09:26,300
and what actually happened.
1677
01:09:26,403 --> 01:09:28,647
And that's how
we identify the fraud.
1678
01:09:30,200 --> 01:09:31,443
- There was a lot of pressure
1679
01:09:31,546 --> 01:09:33,030
that Zach Horwitz
is gonna flee.
1680
01:09:33,134 --> 01:09:34,963
That's often a concern
of investors,
1681
01:09:35,067 --> 01:09:36,758
that this thing's
falling apart now,
1682
01:09:36,862 --> 01:09:39,244
and he's gonna take
all the money and run.
1683
01:09:39,347 --> 01:09:42,764
[suspenseful music]
1684
01:09:42,868 --> 01:09:44,663
[indistinct radio chatter]
1685
01:09:44,766 --> 01:09:47,424
[sirens wailing]
1686
01:09:47,528 --> 01:09:49,771
- The morning of the arrest,
out of nowhere,
1687
01:09:49,875 --> 01:09:53,223
FBI agents are
pounding on the door,
1688
01:09:53,327 --> 01:09:56,295
and there are agents
all swarming into the yard,
1689
01:09:56,399 --> 01:09:58,159
demanding that they
come downstairs.
1690
01:09:58,263 --> 01:09:59,436
It's just complete panic.
1691
01:09:59,540 --> 01:10:02,198
And suffice it to say,
1692
01:10:02,301 --> 01:10:04,269
Mallory was
pretty freaked out.
1693
01:10:04,372 --> 01:10:07,030
- When Zach's wife
came to the door,
1694
01:10:07,133 --> 01:10:08,825
she didn't know
why we were there.
1695
01:10:08,928 --> 01:10:12,069
And then the next person
to come down was Zach Horwitz.
1696
01:10:12,173 --> 01:10:14,106
I don't know if he had
any inkling
1697
01:10:14,210 --> 01:10:16,004
that the FBI was
investigating him.
1698
01:10:16,108 --> 01:10:18,800
I'm guessing it's probably
at the time of the arrest.
1699
01:10:18,904 --> 01:10:20,181
Well, that reminds me
of something else
1700
01:10:20,285 --> 01:10:21,389
I'll tell you about.
1701
01:10:21,493 --> 01:10:23,702
One of the unusual things
about him was--
1702
01:10:23,805 --> 01:10:26,360
is oftentimes,
when we arrest these people,
1703
01:10:26,463 --> 01:10:28,983
they'll often say, like,
"Oh, why are you here?
1704
01:10:29,086 --> 01:10:30,260
"This is all
a misunderstanding.
1705
01:10:30,364 --> 01:10:31,261
It's a real business."
1706
01:10:31,365 --> 01:10:32,918
[distant sirens wailing]
1707
01:10:33,021 --> 01:10:34,160
Zach didn't say a word.
1708
01:10:34,264 --> 01:10:35,714
He was very calm.
1709
01:10:35,817 --> 01:10:37,060
He wasn't in shock.
1710
01:10:37,163 --> 01:10:38,613
So that was unusual.
1711
01:10:38,717 --> 01:10:40,132
I mean,
when you arrest somebody,
1712
01:10:40,236 --> 01:10:42,203
usually they want to know what
they're being arrested for.
1713
01:10:42,307 --> 01:10:45,517
But he never asked
that question.
1714
01:10:45,620 --> 01:10:48,002
After Zach was arrested,
we Mirandized him.
1715
01:10:48,105 --> 01:10:50,694
Myself and another agent
attempted to interview Zach.
1716
01:10:50,798 --> 01:10:52,420
But he declined.
1717
01:10:52,524 --> 01:10:55,665
He never made any statements
to law enforcement.
1718
01:10:58,771 --> 01:11:01,015
- When I first saw
the "LA Times" article,
1719
01:11:01,118 --> 01:11:02,396
I was blown away.
1720
01:11:02,499 --> 01:11:04,363
I was just like, this--
this can't be true.
1721
01:11:04,467 --> 01:11:05,951
- I didn't believe it.
1722
01:11:06,054 --> 01:11:08,125
You know, I was almost mad.
1723
01:11:08,229 --> 01:11:09,679
Like, I didn't even know
what to think
1724
01:11:09,782 --> 01:11:13,096
because there was just no way
in my being--
1725
01:11:13,199 --> 01:11:14,511
how is this even real?
1726
01:11:14,615 --> 01:11:16,410
That was my first reaction
1727
01:11:16,513 --> 01:11:18,239
until I just kind of sat there
1728
01:11:18,343 --> 01:11:20,276
and, you know,
let it all digest.
1729
01:11:20,379 --> 01:11:22,899
And then that's when
it sunk in
1730
01:11:23,002 --> 01:11:26,834
that one of my best friends
has been conning myself,
1731
01:11:26,937 --> 01:11:29,733
my family,
and some of my closest friends
1732
01:11:29,837 --> 01:11:32,184
for the last ten years,
and that he stole
1733
01:11:32,288 --> 01:11:33,841
everything from us,
1734
01:11:33,944 --> 01:11:36,568
and that I might not ever
see it again.
1735
01:11:36,671 --> 01:11:38,328
- The day
they raided his house
1736
01:11:38,432 --> 01:11:41,227
was a good day, you know?
1737
01:11:41,331 --> 01:11:43,091
You finally see somebody
1738
01:11:43,195 --> 01:11:44,817
getting their comeuppance, right?
1739
01:11:44,921 --> 01:11:47,751
And more importantly for us,
I guess it began the process
1740
01:11:47,855 --> 01:11:49,788
to be able to hold him
accountable and--
1741
01:11:49,891 --> 01:11:54,724
and perhaps in a very
unlikely scenario, that--
1742
01:11:54,827 --> 01:11:56,967
that some of the money
could be recouped.
1743
01:12:00,695 --> 01:12:03,008
- It seems
that a lot of the people
1744
01:12:03,111 --> 01:12:04,561
who invested in this
1745
01:12:04,665 --> 01:12:07,771
and who lost money
were older people
1746
01:12:07,875 --> 01:12:10,947
or people in transitions,
people going through divorces,
1747
01:12:11,050 --> 01:12:13,536
people who lost members
of their family recently,
1748
01:12:13,639 --> 01:12:16,642
people who had sick members
of their families.
1749
01:12:16,746 --> 01:12:18,748
And so a lot of these people,
I think,
1750
01:12:18,851 --> 01:12:20,819
were vulnerable
in that respect.
1751
01:12:20,922 --> 01:12:24,788
And I think he was able
to really capitalize on that.
1752
01:12:27,239 --> 01:12:29,586
- When these cases
come to trial,
1753
01:12:29,690 --> 01:12:32,727
what kind of jail time can you
expect as a Ponzi schemer?
1754
01:12:32,831 --> 01:12:36,731
- I see that most of the cases
end up at two to seven years.
1755
01:12:36,835 --> 01:12:39,355
But it's
a complicated process.
1756
01:12:39,458 --> 01:12:40,908
Depending on the number
of victims,
1757
01:12:41,011 --> 01:12:42,116
the number goes up.
1758
01:12:42,219 --> 01:12:45,361
Depending on the loss amount,
the number goes up.
1759
01:12:45,464 --> 01:12:48,294
Your role in the crime,
the number goes up.
1760
01:12:48,398 --> 01:12:52,264
Aggravating circumstances--
did you target elderly people?
1761
01:12:52,368 --> 01:12:54,784
Did you target groups
that would be
1762
01:12:54,887 --> 01:12:56,510
particularly injured
by your crime?
1763
01:12:56,613 --> 01:12:58,270
That causes the number
to go up.
1764
01:12:58,374 --> 01:13:00,617
There's a cap,
like, at 20 years.
1765
01:13:00,721 --> 01:13:03,206
But the judge can deviate
1766
01:13:03,309 --> 01:13:04,932
from those
sentencing guidelines.
1767
01:13:08,245 --> 01:13:09,385
- I just went
into the courthouse
1768
01:13:09,488 --> 01:13:10,903
and asked about the camera.
1769
01:13:11,007 --> 01:13:13,458
And they said no cameras in
federal court, which is fine.
1770
01:13:13,561 --> 01:13:14,804
Kind of what I expected.
1771
01:13:17,841 --> 01:13:18,980
Check, check.
1772
01:13:19,084 --> 01:13:20,568
Sound good?
1773
01:13:20,672 --> 01:13:21,638
- Yeah, just hide the wire
a little bit.
1774
01:13:21,742 --> 01:13:23,295
- Oh.
1775
01:13:23,399 --> 01:13:24,710
Better?
- Yeah.
1776
01:13:24,814 --> 01:13:25,849
- Okay.
1777
01:13:25,953 --> 01:13:29,681
So here he is,
coming in, right here.
1778
01:13:36,619 --> 01:13:38,517
- I have sat through a lot
of statements to the court
1779
01:13:38,621 --> 01:13:41,002
by people who have been
convicted of crimes.
1780
01:13:41,106 --> 01:13:45,282
And his lacked specificity
in a way that struck me.
1781
01:13:45,386 --> 01:13:46,732
When I was writing my story
1782
01:13:46,836 --> 01:13:48,458
and I was trying to find
quotes from it,
1783
01:13:48,562 --> 01:13:49,977
I actually just
threw up my hands
1784
01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:51,703
because he really didn't say
that much.
1785
01:13:51,806 --> 01:13:54,671
It was--it sounded
very generic.
1786
01:13:54,775 --> 01:13:58,503
- We found out that Zach had
sent a letter to the judge.
1787
01:13:58,606 --> 01:14:01,575
And in it,
he had asked the judge
1788
01:14:01,678 --> 01:14:04,405
to be lenient upon him
because, in fact,
1789
01:14:04,509 --> 01:14:06,407
it was the fault
of the victims
1790
01:14:06,511 --> 01:14:10,031
for not seeing the red flags.
1791
01:14:10,135 --> 01:14:12,551
And it went over about as well
as you can imagine.
1792
01:14:12,655 --> 01:14:15,105
The judge was not too pleased.
1793
01:14:15,209 --> 01:14:17,142
- I fucked up.
1794
01:14:17,245 --> 01:14:18,833
I'm a piece of shit.
1795
01:14:18,937 --> 01:14:21,733
- Actor Zachary Joseph Horwitz
is agreeing to plead guilty
1796
01:14:21,836 --> 01:14:25,909
to a $650 million
Ponzi scheme.
1797
01:14:26,013 --> 01:14:28,153
- When Zach agreed
to plead guilty in October,
1798
01:14:28,256 --> 01:14:29,706
he appeared in court.
1799
01:14:29,810 --> 01:14:34,021
And he pled guilty to a single
count of securities fraud.
1800
01:14:34,124 --> 01:14:36,817
And with that agreement,
other charges,
1801
01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:39,889
with decades more in prison,
were dropped.
1802
01:14:39,992 --> 01:14:42,339
- When Zach Horwitz
was sentenced,
1803
01:14:42,443 --> 01:14:44,203
you know, he was sentenced
to 20 years
1804
01:14:44,307 --> 01:14:47,310
and ordered to pay
$230 million in restitution.
1805
01:14:47,413 --> 01:14:50,865
A 20-year sentence,
you know, was--
1806
01:14:50,969 --> 01:14:52,764
I was a little surprised
by it.
1807
01:14:52,867 --> 01:14:55,076
I think in this case,
I think it's just
1808
01:14:55,180 --> 01:14:56,664
the sheer numbers involved.
1809
01:14:56,768 --> 01:15:00,565
- It was really striking
to hear the judge go over
1810
01:15:00,668 --> 01:15:04,051
all of the money that was
spent during this scheme.
1811
01:15:04,154 --> 01:15:06,812
The $7 million
on the American Express card.
1812
01:15:06,916 --> 01:15:11,403
I think it was $700,000
for interior design.
1813
01:15:11,507 --> 01:15:15,062
The Mercedes Benz
of Beverly Hills.
1814
01:15:15,165 --> 01:15:17,720
Where is that money now?
1815
01:15:17,823 --> 01:15:19,549
- I think I know
the answer to this,
1816
01:15:19,653 --> 01:15:20,792
and it's a bummer.
1817
01:15:20,895 --> 01:15:21,896
But what about the victims?
1818
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:23,449
Do they ever get
their money back?
1819
01:15:23,553 --> 01:15:25,659
- This is one of the toughest
things I have to tell people,
1820
01:15:25,762 --> 01:15:27,626
because they all believe
that the money is
1821
01:15:27,730 --> 01:15:29,455
squirreled away somewhere.
1822
01:15:29,559 --> 01:15:32,666
And it's not.
1823
01:15:32,769 --> 01:15:34,219
- All the money
has been spent.
1824
01:15:34,322 --> 01:15:36,497
And that's why the actual
investment collapses.
1825
01:15:36,601 --> 01:15:38,637
They spend the money,
dinners, travel,
1826
01:15:38,741 --> 01:15:40,570
like, things
that you can't recover.
1827
01:15:40,674 --> 01:15:43,090
- They frequently tell me
that they know,
1828
01:15:43,193 --> 01:15:44,712
at some point,
they're gonna get caught.
1829
01:15:44,816 --> 01:15:46,611
If you know
that the end is coming,
1830
01:15:46,714 --> 01:15:47,991
just spend the money.
1831
01:15:48,095 --> 01:15:51,788
- He had his house
and the contents of the house.
1832
01:15:51,892 --> 01:15:53,997
And that--really,
that was about it.
1833
01:15:54,101 --> 01:15:55,792
You know, there was
approximately a little over
1834
01:15:55,896 --> 01:15:59,727
$2 million that was recovered
from the sale of the house.
1835
01:15:59,831 --> 01:16:01,418
- I don't see myself
1836
01:16:01,522 --> 01:16:03,559
as the victim who was
impacted the most
1837
01:16:03,662 --> 01:16:04,732
because some of the stories
I've heard
1838
01:16:04,836 --> 01:16:06,700
have been far more tragic
than mine.
1839
01:16:06,803 --> 01:16:09,910
My wife and I lost
$1.8 million in total.
1840
01:16:10,013 --> 01:16:12,291
It took us a long time
to save that kind of money.
1841
01:16:12,395 --> 01:16:14,155
It's--again, it's relative.
1842
01:16:14,259 --> 01:16:18,228
To some person, 120,000 would
be the equivalent of that.
1843
01:16:18,332 --> 01:16:20,092
And to some, it's 120 million.
1844
01:16:20,196 --> 01:16:23,268
For us, that 1.8
1845
01:16:23,371 --> 01:16:25,166
was everything that we had
managed to accrue
1846
01:16:25,270 --> 01:16:27,306
over a long period of time.
1847
01:16:27,410 --> 01:16:29,895
And so that was just wiped
1848
01:16:29,999 --> 01:16:31,863
just so somebody could
feel good about himself
1849
01:16:31,966 --> 01:16:33,485
and cast himself
in a few movies
1850
01:16:33,589 --> 01:16:35,867
and party in Vegas
a little bit.
1851
01:16:35,970 --> 01:16:38,628
And that's--that's tough
to deal with.
1852
01:16:38,732 --> 01:16:41,907
- Speeding.
1853
01:16:42,011 --> 01:16:44,841
- It's bad regardless,
strangers or people you know.
1854
01:16:44,945 --> 01:16:49,294
But to get family
and friends involved, it's--
1855
01:16:49,397 --> 01:16:50,882
that's a whole other level
1856
01:16:50,985 --> 01:16:52,642
of just blocking out
right and wrong.
1857
01:16:52,746 --> 01:16:56,439
- You just want to believe
the best of a person
1858
01:16:56,542 --> 01:16:59,097
and kind of block out
everything else.
1859
01:16:59,200 --> 01:17:02,928
- I've personally known
a lot of Zach Averys.
1860
01:17:03,032 --> 01:17:05,448
I just never thought
that any one of them
1861
01:17:05,551 --> 01:17:09,486
would be smart enough
or cold enough
1862
01:17:09,590 --> 01:17:11,074
to pull
something like this off.
1863
01:17:11,178 --> 01:17:13,525
- It's so fascinating to me
that something like this
1864
01:17:13,629 --> 01:17:18,495
could happen in our industry,
like, right in my backyard.
1865
01:17:18,599 --> 01:17:23,846
- He did a lot of things
that we,
1866
01:17:23,949 --> 01:17:26,296
on different levels, you know,
would consider terrible
1867
01:17:26,400 --> 01:17:29,610
or immoral or dishonest.
1868
01:17:29,714 --> 01:17:31,232
- At the end of the day,
it's sort of just
1869
01:17:31,336 --> 01:17:34,995
an unforgivable thing
to lie that way,
1870
01:17:35,098 --> 01:17:37,687
to scheme that many people,
and take that much money
1871
01:17:37,791 --> 01:17:38,895
all for yourself.
1872
01:17:38,999 --> 01:17:43,210
- The greed
took him over completely.
1873
01:17:43,313 --> 01:17:46,592
- Really made me consider
my past actions.
1874
01:17:46,696 --> 01:17:49,975
I think I'm making
really good progress now.
1875
01:17:50,079 --> 01:17:53,841
- When I went to court
to watch Zach be sentenced,
1876
01:17:53,945 --> 01:17:57,258
you know, there was
a realization that all of us,
1877
01:17:57,362 --> 01:17:59,053
all of the victims,
had been sentenced.
1878
01:17:59,157 --> 01:18:02,125
And for some,
it was a life sentence, right?
1879
01:18:02,229 --> 01:18:06,820
We are now forced to pick up
the pieces of the lives
1880
01:18:06,923 --> 01:18:08,787
that this guy has shattered.
1881
01:18:08,891 --> 01:18:11,479
But there are those that
I know will never be able to,
1882
01:18:11,583 --> 01:18:13,171
not just because
the amount of money,
1883
01:18:13,274 --> 01:18:15,276
but just because of the time
it took to get there
1884
01:18:15,380 --> 01:18:18,038
and how much time
they may have left.
1885
01:18:18,141 --> 01:18:21,351
- My mom's in the other room,
just found out that she,
1886
01:18:21,455 --> 01:18:24,423
you know, has terminal cancer.
1887
01:18:24,527 --> 01:18:27,012
You know, my parents'
retirement's in this fund.
1888
01:18:27,116 --> 01:18:30,809
How do you go in the hall
and go look at your dad
1889
01:18:30,913 --> 01:18:35,262
and tell him
that their money's gone,
1890
01:18:35,365 --> 01:18:37,989
this was all a lie?
1891
01:18:38,092 --> 01:18:39,887
Like, how do you have
that conversation?
1892
01:18:39,991 --> 01:18:42,200
You know, imagine having
that conversation.
1893
01:18:42,303 --> 01:18:44,443
It was one of the hardest
conversations I've ever had.
1894
01:18:44,547 --> 01:18:46,618
You know, he was just--
he loved Zach as well.
1895
01:18:46,722 --> 01:18:50,104
And just the hurt,
you know, in his eyes
1896
01:18:50,208 --> 01:18:54,281
and my mother's eyes,
and I just--
1897
01:18:54,384 --> 01:18:57,525
you know, it just wasn't--
1898
01:18:57,629 --> 01:18:58,975
I just couldn't believe it,
1899
01:18:59,079 --> 01:19:00,597
that everything I thought
was my life
1900
01:19:00,701 --> 01:19:03,083
and what was real just wasn't.
1901
01:19:03,186 --> 01:19:06,120
- How could somebody do that,
just lie to all the people
1902
01:19:06,224 --> 01:19:10,711
that knew him, trusted him,
and, like, just full-on lie?
1903
01:19:10,815 --> 01:19:12,748
How am I gonna face my kids?
They're upstairs.
1904
01:19:12,851 --> 01:19:14,577
Like, how am I gonna
face my wife?
1905
01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:17,614
This is gonna be a stain,
like, forever in our marriage.
1906
01:19:17,718 --> 01:19:19,755
Like, how do we--
how do we get past that?
1907
01:19:19,858 --> 01:19:22,619
You know, and what happened
in your past
1908
01:19:22,723 --> 01:19:24,173
that you would
make this happen,
1909
01:19:24,276 --> 01:19:26,796
so I can avoid that
with my kids
1910
01:19:26,900 --> 01:19:30,179
and make sure
they don't turn out like you?
1911
01:19:30,282 --> 01:19:32,802
- At a sentencing, the defense
is given an opportunity
1912
01:19:32,906 --> 01:19:34,217
to make a statement.
1913
01:19:34,321 --> 01:19:36,219
And during the whole period
of his sentencing,
1914
01:19:36,323 --> 01:19:39,153
he was sitting at a table
with his counsels
1915
01:19:39,257 --> 01:19:41,949
and, you know, was very
just expressionless.
1916
01:19:42,053 --> 01:19:43,813
And then when he got up
to make his statement,
1917
01:19:43,917 --> 01:19:46,540
he became animated
and was very remorseful
1918
01:19:46,643 --> 01:19:48,853
about all the damage
he had caused
1919
01:19:48,956 --> 01:19:50,855
and the irreparable
financial loss
1920
01:19:50,958 --> 01:19:53,098
he had created
to all the victims
1921
01:19:53,202 --> 01:19:55,825
and all the people that,
you know, he had betrayed.
1922
01:19:55,929 --> 01:19:57,275
And then after he had
made his statement,
1923
01:19:57,378 --> 01:20:00,036
he--he sat back down
and went back
1924
01:20:00,140 --> 01:20:02,383
to, you know,
that same poker face.
1925
01:20:02,487 --> 01:20:04,696
So maybe--maybe
at that point in time,
1926
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:08,113
we were seeing a little bit of
Zach Avery in the courtroom.
1927
01:20:08,217 --> 01:20:10,944
- After the court case,
I went to the bathroom.
1928
01:20:11,047 --> 01:20:16,328
And as I was walking out,
the door opened.
1929
01:20:16,432 --> 01:20:20,505
And in walks Zach Avery,
Zach Horwitz.
1930
01:20:20,608 --> 01:20:23,853
And it's
such a strange feeling
1931
01:20:23,957 --> 01:20:26,235
because there's this guy
that's ruined my life.
1932
01:20:26,338 --> 01:20:30,066
And he--he walked past me
and he looked up,
1933
01:20:30,170 --> 01:20:32,689
and we kind of met eyes.
1934
01:20:32,793 --> 01:20:36,935
And he's like,
"Hey, man, I'm, like--
1935
01:20:37,039 --> 01:20:39,904
"I'm so, so sorry.
1936
01:20:40,007 --> 01:20:42,285
I'm so sorry."
1937
01:20:42,389 --> 01:20:45,564
And it's just--
well, I should hope so.
1938
01:20:45,668 --> 01:20:47,739
I mean, I'm sure you're more
sorry you got caught
1939
01:20:47,843 --> 01:20:50,155
and you're spending
20 years in prison.
1940
01:20:50,259 --> 01:20:56,299
But I said, "Look, dude,
what was your endgame?"
1941
01:20:56,403 --> 01:21:00,131
And he said,
"I didn't have one."
1942
01:21:00,234 --> 01:21:03,272
It's almost worse to hear
than he just messed up, right?
1943
01:21:03,375 --> 01:21:05,343
It's like,
he never had a plan.
1944
01:21:05,446 --> 01:21:08,484
He just was taking
people's money and spending.
1945
01:21:08,587 --> 01:21:11,452
- That he perpetrated this
crime against people he knew,
1946
01:21:11,556 --> 01:21:14,041
people he didn't know,
and then his own family,
1947
01:21:14,145 --> 01:21:15,871
who also is dealing
with the wreckage
1948
01:21:15,974 --> 01:21:18,183
because he's got
two young sons
1949
01:21:18,287 --> 01:21:20,151
and he's in prison
for the next 20 years,
1950
01:21:20,254 --> 01:21:23,533
so by the time he gets out,
they'll be adults.
1951
01:21:23,637 --> 01:21:27,330
- He's in jail now and is
leaving his two kids behind.
1952
01:21:27,434 --> 01:21:31,576
That is his legacy
that he's in prison, you know?
1953
01:21:31,679 --> 01:21:34,510
And he is a criminal.
1954
01:21:34,613 --> 01:21:38,100
And, you know, I wish
he'd stay behind bars
1955
01:21:38,203 --> 01:21:39,964
the rest of his life.
1956
01:21:44,451 --> 01:21:48,248
- Okay, we're speeding.
- Speeding.
1957
01:21:48,351 --> 01:21:50,975
- Okay.
1958
01:21:51,078 --> 01:21:53,529
- 59. Take one. Mark.
1959
01:21:55,393 --> 01:21:59,466
- I guess if I'm being honest,
just the type of egos
1960
01:21:59,569 --> 01:22:01,813
that are involved
in running schemes like this--
1961
01:22:01,917 --> 01:22:04,471
what makes that guy tick,
you know?
1962
01:22:04,574 --> 01:22:08,854
- I would love to actually
meet him, honestly.
1963
01:22:08,958 --> 01:22:10,822
Like, I'm so curious.
1964
01:22:10,926 --> 01:22:12,065
- He's crazy.
1965
01:22:12,168 --> 01:22:13,894
I mean, what is wrong
with this guy?
1966
01:22:13,998 --> 01:22:15,344
How can you be so smart
1967
01:22:15,447 --> 01:22:17,656
and so stupid
at the same time?
1968
01:22:17,760 --> 01:22:19,348
- I mean,
I'd watch this movie.
1969
01:22:19,451 --> 01:22:20,763
[laughs]
1970
01:22:20,866 --> 01:22:21,902
- I always try
to do things the way
1971
01:22:22,006 --> 01:22:23,110
you're supposed to do them.
1972
01:22:23,214 --> 01:22:26,872
And whenever I see
somebody getting away
1973
01:22:26,976 --> 01:22:30,566
with just breaking the rules,
1974
01:22:30,669 --> 01:22:32,464
it makes me really angry.
1975
01:22:32,568 --> 01:22:34,156
- I'm very interested
in exploring
1976
01:22:34,259 --> 01:22:37,745
how someone's capable
of carrying that much guilt
1977
01:22:37,849 --> 01:22:39,402
on their own shoulders.
1978
01:22:42,681 --> 01:22:45,408
- So you're gonna be looking
straight down the barrel.
1979
01:22:45,512 --> 01:22:47,652
- When people read
about financial crime,
1980
01:22:47,755 --> 01:22:50,689
they are engaging with it
from an arm's length
1981
01:22:50,793 --> 01:22:54,555
because nobody wants
to identify with the criminal
1982
01:22:54,659 --> 01:22:57,317
because they don't think
they can lie at that level
1983
01:22:57,420 --> 01:23:01,010
or be cruel.
1984
01:23:01,114 --> 01:23:02,908
And we really don't have
that much sympathy
1985
01:23:03,012 --> 01:23:05,290
for the victims either because
nobody thinks of themselves
1986
01:23:05,394 --> 01:23:08,811
as being reckless or naive
or stupid enough
1987
01:23:08,914 --> 01:23:11,987
to get scammed like that.
1988
01:23:12,090 --> 01:23:16,232
But I think what you're doing
with the director
1989
01:23:16,336 --> 01:23:18,855
"character" in this movie
is different
1990
01:23:18,959 --> 01:23:22,066
because it just shows you
how easy it is
1991
01:23:22,169 --> 01:23:25,414
for anyone to get taken in.
1992
01:23:25,517 --> 01:23:27,174
I don't think of myself
as a scammer.
1993
01:23:27,278 --> 01:23:29,418
But I'm an actor.
1994
01:23:29,521 --> 01:23:33,387
So to me,
this is just another role.
1995
01:23:33,491 --> 01:23:35,976
- I'm auditioning today
for the role of the director.
1996
01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:37,771
- The director.
- The director.
1997
01:23:37,874 --> 01:23:39,462
- I'm Joslyn Jensen,
1998
01:23:39,566 --> 01:23:41,740
and I'm auditioning
for the role of the director.
1999
01:23:41,844 --> 01:23:44,571
[dark music]
2000
01:23:44,674 --> 01:23:51,647
โช
144625
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