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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:10,148 --> 00:00:13,289 [line trilling] 4 00:00:20,123 --> 00:00:21,228 - Hello? 5 00:00:21,331 --> 00:00:23,023 - Hi, this is Joslyn Jensen. 6 00:00:23,126 --> 00:00:26,509 I'm calling about the documentary film. 7 00:00:26,612 --> 00:00:27,751 - I'm sorry. 8 00:00:27,855 --> 00:00:29,684 What--what film? 9 00:00:29,788 --> 00:00:31,962 [inquisitive music] 10 00:00:32,066 --> 00:00:34,068 - I'm making a documentary about Zach Avery. 11 00:00:34,172 --> 00:00:36,381 And I was hoping that Zach would talk to me 12 00:00:36,484 --> 00:00:39,418 so he could tell his side of the story for the film. 13 00:00:39,522 --> 00:00:40,557 - All right, no. 14 00:00:40,661 --> 00:00:41,972 I can just tell you right off the bat, no. 15 00:00:42,076 --> 00:00:43,698 Absolutely not. 16 00:00:45,838 --> 00:00:48,772 - The FBI arrested actor Zachary Joseph Horwitz, 17 00:00:48,876 --> 00:00:51,672 accused of convincing several investment firms 18 00:00:51,775 --> 00:00:54,261 to give him nearly a quarter of a billion dollars. 19 00:00:54,364 --> 00:00:56,125 - Today I'm very excited to be interviewing Zach Avery. 20 00:00:56,228 --> 00:00:57,436 Zach, hello. - Hello. 21 00:00:57,540 --> 00:00:59,059 How are you? - Very exciting. 22 00:00:59,162 --> 00:01:00,784 You've had a real big jump in your career. 23 00:01:00,888 --> 00:01:04,098 - I took a kind of not straight path into acting. 24 00:01:04,202 --> 00:01:06,066 Could I have done this? Why didn't I do that? 25 00:01:06,169 --> 00:01:07,584 Why didn't I see it coming? 26 00:01:07,688 --> 00:01:08,620 But this is my dream. 27 00:01:08,723 --> 00:01:11,416 This is what I've wanted to do forever. 28 00:01:11,519 --> 00:01:12,969 - I don't want to be bothering you. 29 00:01:13,073 --> 00:01:15,144 I want to understand because I've spoken to another person 30 00:01:15,247 --> 00:01:16,352 who told me that you would. 31 00:01:16,455 --> 00:01:18,181 And now you're not going to. 32 00:01:18,285 --> 00:01:20,114 - The FBI says Zach Horwitz, 33 00:01:20,218 --> 00:01:22,841 who goes by the screen name, Zach Avery, 34 00:01:22,944 --> 00:01:26,155 used the victim's money to repay earlier investors 35 00:01:26,258 --> 00:01:27,742 and to fund his lifestyle. 36 00:01:27,846 --> 00:01:29,537 - Yeah, that's basically it. 37 00:01:29,641 --> 00:01:31,815 Do a little entrepreneur stuff on the side as well, 38 00:01:31,919 --> 00:01:33,300 but mainly--mainly acting. 39 00:01:33,403 --> 00:01:35,336 - Who is this guy? Where did he come from? 40 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:37,062 And how could he possibly have done 41 00:01:37,166 --> 00:01:39,823 something this outlandish? 42 00:01:39,927 --> 00:01:41,239 - And who the fuck are you, Ronnie? 43 00:01:41,342 --> 00:01:42,688 - I could tell from the beginning 44 00:01:42,792 --> 00:01:44,621 that it was really going to be a juicy one, 45 00:01:44,725 --> 00:01:45,588 that it had everything. 46 00:01:45,691 --> 00:01:46,761 It was Hollywood. 47 00:01:46,865 --> 00:01:48,763 It was a Ponzi scheme. 48 00:01:48,867 --> 00:01:50,179 It was a huge amount of money. 49 00:01:50,282 --> 00:01:52,664 - More than $700 million 50 00:01:52,767 --> 00:01:55,701 for completely phony investment deals. 51 00:01:55,805 --> 00:01:57,324 - That's a staggering amount of money 52 00:01:57,427 --> 00:01:58,532 that was moving around, 53 00:01:58,635 --> 00:02:00,568 all for the purchase and resale 54 00:02:00,672 --> 00:02:02,467 of movie rights that weren't real. 55 00:02:02,570 --> 00:02:03,675 - Turn around. 56 00:02:03,778 --> 00:02:05,194 Get down on your knees. 57 00:02:05,297 --> 00:02:06,678 - We can just tell the truth. 58 00:02:06,781 --> 00:02:08,852 We can just tell the cops what happened. 59 00:02:08,956 --> 00:02:11,959 - We have this treasure trove of clips of Zach's acting, 60 00:02:12,062 --> 00:02:13,961 which we can actually use to mirror 61 00:02:14,064 --> 00:02:15,411 what's playing out in real life. 62 00:02:15,514 --> 00:02:18,310 There are times watching this when his lines are like 63 00:02:18,414 --> 00:02:21,417 he's speaking directly to the story we're telling. 64 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,558 It's almost like he's answering for his crimes. 65 00:02:24,661 --> 00:02:27,354 - Same shit, different toilet, officer. 66 00:02:27,457 --> 00:02:29,356 How the fuck are you? 67 00:02:29,459 --> 00:02:31,323 - I don't think anyone really knows who he is. 68 00:02:31,427 --> 00:02:34,361 Maybe even he doesn't even really know who he is. 69 00:02:34,464 --> 00:02:36,639 He might just be playing multiple characters, 70 00:02:36,742 --> 00:02:38,503 even to this day. 71 00:02:38,606 --> 00:02:41,299 - I can't ask a pathological liar for his life story 72 00:02:41,402 --> 00:02:42,886 and expect him to tell me the truth, right? 73 00:02:42,990 --> 00:02:47,028 Especially in a movie that's all about scamming, 74 00:02:47,132 --> 00:02:49,859 as we try to figure out how he did it. 75 00:02:49,962 --> 00:02:52,310 - How is somebody able to concoct a scheme this large 76 00:02:52,413 --> 00:02:54,553 and make it seem legitimate 77 00:02:54,657 --> 00:02:56,279 and, you know, actually carry it on 78 00:02:56,383 --> 00:02:57,970 for the number of years that he did, 79 00:02:58,074 --> 00:02:59,144 all by himself? 80 00:02:59,248 --> 00:03:01,767 - Our secret, okay? 81 00:03:11,363 --> 00:03:13,469 - Needs to get a little curvier. 82 00:03:13,572 --> 00:03:15,091 - So this is the real Zach Avery, 83 00:03:15,195 --> 00:03:16,299 in his real office, 84 00:03:16,403 --> 00:03:18,612 where he does a lot of his interviews. 85 00:03:18,715 --> 00:03:20,269 Yeah, and then this is our re-creation, 86 00:03:20,372 --> 00:03:22,788 which is pretty good. 87 00:03:22,892 --> 00:03:24,652 I want to have reenactments. 88 00:03:24,756 --> 00:03:28,553 So we're going to hire an actor to play Zach Avery. 89 00:03:29,761 --> 00:03:31,487 We're not really looking for an impression. 90 00:03:31,590 --> 00:03:33,213 But I just want to see these guys 91 00:03:33,316 --> 00:03:35,456 embody Zach in an interview. 92 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:36,940 This one. - All right. 93 00:03:37,044 --> 00:03:38,977 - It looks like you're so guilty of financial crime. 94 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:40,012 - No, that's okay. 95 00:03:40,116 --> 00:03:41,531 I might be. 96 00:03:41,635 --> 00:03:42,636 - Speeding? 97 00:03:42,739 --> 00:03:44,258 - Camera speeding. - All right. 98 00:03:44,362 --> 00:03:46,226 Slate in. 99 00:03:46,329 --> 00:03:48,504 - Scene one, take one, mark. 100 00:03:48,607 --> 00:03:50,333 - I'll be auditioning for Zach Avery. 101 00:03:50,437 --> 00:03:52,197 - Reading for Zach Avery. - Zach Avery. 102 00:03:52,301 --> 00:03:53,750 - Zach Avery. - Zach Avery. 103 00:03:53,854 --> 00:03:56,546 - I'm auditioning today for the role of Zach Avery. 104 00:03:56,650 --> 00:03:57,892 - All right. 105 00:03:57,996 --> 00:04:00,516 Have you done any research on the real Zach Avery at all? 106 00:04:00,619 --> 00:04:01,689 - Every morning, I read the paper. 107 00:04:01,793 --> 00:04:03,450 I saw that. That was a crazy story. 108 00:04:03,553 --> 00:04:04,658 - So I think it's kind of interesting 109 00:04:04,761 --> 00:04:06,522 that he's able to, like, be that charming 110 00:04:06,625 --> 00:04:08,593 and that, like, convincing of a person. 111 00:04:08,696 --> 00:04:10,422 - I would never do something like this, personally. 112 00:04:10,526 --> 00:04:12,390 But I could see how the desperation 113 00:04:12,493 --> 00:04:13,943 would take hold. 114 00:04:14,046 --> 00:04:15,255 - This industry is-- 115 00:04:15,358 --> 00:04:16,877 it's all about fake it till you make it. 116 00:04:16,980 --> 00:04:18,982 And everyone will tell you, if you're not confident, 117 00:04:19,086 --> 00:04:20,536 pretend to be. 118 00:04:20,639 --> 00:04:23,124 You know, put on that-- that faรงade or that mask 119 00:04:23,228 --> 00:04:26,852 so that others will, you know, feed off your comfort. 120 00:04:26,956 --> 00:04:28,406 - Do you know when we're gonna find out, 121 00:04:28,509 --> 00:04:30,270 you know, who gets the role? 122 00:04:30,373 --> 00:04:32,168 I have a vacation coming up. 123 00:04:32,272 --> 00:04:34,343 So I'm just wondering. 124 00:04:40,314 --> 00:04:42,765 - Look at the eyes. 125 00:04:42,868 --> 00:04:44,042 Hmm. 126 00:04:44,145 --> 00:04:46,044 Yeah, this is him. 127 00:04:48,529 --> 00:04:51,429 - Here was an actor nobody had ever heard of, 128 00:04:51,532 --> 00:04:54,294 who'd been in some pretty bad movies. 129 00:04:54,397 --> 00:04:56,848 And he was accused of pulling off 130 00:04:56,951 --> 00:05:00,817 an unbelievably audacious Ponzi scheme. 131 00:05:00,921 --> 00:05:02,785 It was like, what? 132 00:05:02,888 --> 00:05:06,271 - There's this idea that Hollywood is a place 133 00:05:06,375 --> 00:05:08,653 of immense wealth and people are beautiful 134 00:05:08,756 --> 00:05:10,862 and it's a glamorous environment. 135 00:05:10,965 --> 00:05:13,692 And I think that can have an allure to it 136 00:05:13,796 --> 00:05:17,213 that people want to be associated with. 137 00:05:17,317 --> 00:05:19,560 - And when they can't do it legitimately, 138 00:05:19,664 --> 00:05:21,424 some people in Hollywood end up moving 139 00:05:21,528 --> 00:05:23,357 toward criminal activity. 140 00:05:23,461 --> 00:05:25,842 And Ponzi schemes are one of those things. 141 00:05:27,603 --> 00:05:30,364 - It's not usually as hard as it was in this case 142 00:05:30,468 --> 00:05:34,472 to sort of figure out where a con man came from. 143 00:05:34,575 --> 00:05:37,509 There's kind of a mad scientist quality 144 00:05:37,613 --> 00:05:39,546 to what he was doing. 145 00:05:40,443 --> 00:05:42,203 So I just set out right away 146 00:05:42,307 --> 00:05:46,863 to kind of reconstruct the whole scam. 147 00:05:46,967 --> 00:05:49,038 - As I mentioned at the top, we're fellow Midwesterners. 148 00:05:49,141 --> 00:05:50,936 - Yes, definitely. - From the land of the corn. 149 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:52,455 - Yeah, exactly. 150 00:05:52,559 --> 00:05:54,388 Good old Indiana. 151 00:05:54,492 --> 00:05:57,702 - He grew up in Fort Wayne, Indiana. 152 00:05:57,805 --> 00:06:00,808 In terms of who he was as a kid and what he was like, 153 00:06:00,912 --> 00:06:03,777 it was really hard to figure all of that out. 154 00:06:07,367 --> 00:06:10,266 [upbeat pop music] 155 00:06:10,370 --> 00:06:17,135 โ™ช 156 00:06:23,831 --> 00:06:25,971 - So tell me about this place. 157 00:06:26,075 --> 00:06:26,903 [laughter] 158 00:06:27,007 --> 00:06:29,285 - Generations of Fort Wayne youth 159 00:06:29,389 --> 00:06:30,562 have passed through here. 160 00:06:30,666 --> 00:06:32,978 Zach definitely would have come here. 161 00:06:33,082 --> 00:06:36,326 He moved to town when he was in his early teens. 162 00:06:36,430 --> 00:06:39,433 What are the odds that you'll go to school with somebody 163 00:06:39,537 --> 00:06:43,264 who ends up making news for, you know, 164 00:06:43,368 --> 00:06:45,335 masterminding this multimillion dollar 165 00:06:45,439 --> 00:06:47,441 Ponzi scheme? 166 00:06:49,512 --> 00:06:50,824 - So what was your reaction 167 00:06:50,927 --> 00:06:53,585 when you heard about the Ponzi scheme? 168 00:06:53,689 --> 00:06:55,656 Like, you knew he was a Hollywood guy? 169 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:57,969 - No. I had no idea. 170 00:06:58,072 --> 00:07:00,178 You know, he never acted in high school. 171 00:07:00,281 --> 00:07:03,595 Like, I did plays all four years of high school. 172 00:07:03,699 --> 00:07:07,599 And Zach and I never crossed paths once. 173 00:07:07,703 --> 00:07:10,153 - So he was more of, like, a jock type of guy... 174 00:07:10,257 --> 00:07:13,191 - Absolutely. - At that time. 175 00:07:13,294 --> 00:07:15,573 - When I read all the coverage about what he did, 176 00:07:15,676 --> 00:07:17,402 like, it just occurred to me, you know, 177 00:07:17,506 --> 00:07:19,646 this guy is a supervillain. 178 00:07:19,749 --> 00:07:22,959 And classmates and I were all there for his origin story. 179 00:07:23,063 --> 00:07:25,203 - Yeah. Wow. 180 00:07:28,862 --> 00:07:30,173 So it seems like what you're telling me 181 00:07:30,277 --> 00:07:32,417 is that high school, where-- 182 00:07:32,521 --> 00:07:33,936 it was like the glory days for Zach. 183 00:07:34,039 --> 00:07:35,213 - Oh, absolutely. 184 00:07:35,316 --> 00:07:37,836 All you have to do is, like, crack open a yearbook 185 00:07:37,940 --> 00:07:39,010 and just see. 186 00:07:39,113 --> 00:07:40,874 It's like a greatest hits. 187 00:07:43,532 --> 00:07:44,947 [indistinct chatter] 188 00:07:45,050 --> 00:07:46,535 [school bell rings] 189 00:07:46,638 --> 00:07:48,502 [distant laughter] 190 00:07:48,606 --> 00:07:51,678 [soft music] 191 00:07:51,781 --> 00:07:53,127 โ™ช 192 00:07:53,231 --> 00:07:54,474 [whistle blows] 193 00:07:54,577 --> 00:07:56,337 - Interestingly, Zach actually had 194 00:07:56,441 --> 00:07:57,925 a kind of burgeoning career in football. 195 00:07:58,029 --> 00:07:59,064 - Yeah. 196 00:07:59,168 --> 00:08:00,514 - What was that experience like for you? 197 00:08:00,618 --> 00:08:02,689 - So went to Indiana University, started playing. 198 00:08:02,792 --> 00:08:05,692 [muffled cheering] 199 00:08:07,763 --> 00:08:09,005 [whistle blows] 200 00:08:09,109 --> 00:08:10,213 [crowd cheering] 201 00:08:10,317 --> 00:08:12,871 - But it was derailed... - It was. 202 00:08:12,975 --> 00:08:14,873 - For the better, you could argue now. 203 00:08:14,977 --> 00:08:17,289 - Basically, it was-- before even the first season, 204 00:08:17,393 --> 00:08:18,428 is when I got injured. 205 00:08:18,532 --> 00:08:19,982 It was a total, like, blow. 206 00:08:20,085 --> 00:08:22,536 Like, my kneecap was over on the left side. 207 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:23,986 Like, it was rough. 208 00:08:24,089 --> 00:08:25,884 - Man, I knew I knew you. It was the Rose Bowl. 209 00:08:25,988 --> 00:08:27,714 Three years ago, you beat SC, right? 210 00:08:27,817 --> 00:08:29,336 - Yeah, I got my knee folded back 211 00:08:29,439 --> 00:08:31,372 about 90 degrees the wrong way. 212 00:08:31,476 --> 00:08:33,029 - Whoa. That's why you never went pro? 213 00:08:33,133 --> 00:08:34,306 - Tore the ACL. 214 00:08:34,410 --> 00:08:35,998 My knee stayed out. 215 00:08:36,101 --> 00:08:38,034 [both laugh] 216 00:08:38,138 --> 00:08:39,001 - That's all. 217 00:08:40,243 --> 00:08:42,418 - He was a good high school football player. 218 00:08:42,522 --> 00:08:43,626 - Mm-hmm. 219 00:08:43,730 --> 00:08:45,559 - But the embellishing, like saying, 220 00:08:45,663 --> 00:08:47,665 "Oh, yeah, I was going to play football at IU." 221 00:08:47,768 --> 00:08:50,081 He wasn't good enough to play in the Big Ten. 222 00:08:50,184 --> 00:08:52,911 - What? He never played in college? 223 00:08:53,015 --> 00:08:53,947 - I don't know. 224 00:08:54,050 --> 00:08:56,777 But my brother probably knows, like, 225 00:08:56,881 --> 00:08:58,779 if he actually ever suited up 226 00:08:58,883 --> 00:09:01,506 for Indiana University football. 227 00:09:01,610 --> 00:09:03,059 - Hey, Robbie. - Hey, Derek. 228 00:09:03,163 --> 00:09:05,786 Did Zach ever actually play football 229 00:09:05,890 --> 00:09:08,030 at Indiana University? 230 00:09:08,133 --> 00:09:09,549 - No. 231 00:09:09,652 --> 00:09:11,309 - And then you said that was before-- 232 00:09:11,412 --> 00:09:13,725 - Yeah, so that was training before freshman year, 233 00:09:13,829 --> 00:09:15,969 like, actual, like, season happened. 234 00:09:16,072 --> 00:09:18,592 - Did he ever go to, like, a tryout 235 00:09:18,696 --> 00:09:20,283 or anything? 236 00:09:20,387 --> 00:09:21,664 - No. 237 00:09:21,768 --> 00:09:24,874 He was never on the football team. 238 00:09:24,978 --> 00:09:27,705 I think he tore his ACL playing intramural football. 239 00:09:27,808 --> 00:09:30,673 - [laughs] - Oh, okay. 240 00:09:30,777 --> 00:09:32,468 - What was, like, the-- 241 00:09:32,572 --> 00:09:35,505 the impetus for you to then say, "Okay, I'm gonna act"? 242 00:09:35,609 --> 00:09:36,679 Like, "I want to act"? 243 00:09:36,783 --> 00:09:37,956 - My mom's a lifelong educator. 244 00:09:38,060 --> 00:09:39,130 She's a teacher. 245 00:09:39,233 --> 00:09:41,339 She fully was, "You need an education 246 00:09:41,442 --> 00:09:43,755 and you need to go that route before doing anything else." 247 00:09:43,859 --> 00:09:46,827 And so I really didn't have a choice in my head 248 00:09:46,931 --> 00:09:48,242 of, like, "I'm gonna be an actor. 249 00:09:48,346 --> 00:09:50,003 "I'm gonna follow the arts and I'm gonna be an artist, 250 00:09:50,106 --> 00:09:51,867 and that's it, and that's what I want to do." 251 00:09:51,970 --> 00:09:53,696 I was going to school for psychology. 252 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:55,180 - You started at Indiana University. 253 00:09:55,284 --> 00:09:56,630 - Mm-hmm. 254 00:09:56,734 --> 00:10:00,047 - How did that kind of train your mindset for acting? 255 00:10:00,151 --> 00:10:02,049 - As the actor, you need to be empathetic 256 00:10:02,153 --> 00:10:04,120 and, like, being able to tap into these emotions. 257 00:10:04,224 --> 00:10:06,157 And in psychology, you kind of want 258 00:10:06,260 --> 00:10:08,608 to study why people are doing the things they're doing, 259 00:10:08,711 --> 00:10:10,368 which obviously goes hand-in-hand. 260 00:10:10,471 --> 00:10:14,648 - Psychological expertise and acting and ruthlessness-- 261 00:10:14,752 --> 00:10:17,202 these various ingredients that just together 262 00:10:17,306 --> 00:10:18,514 make for a good con artist. 263 00:10:18,618 --> 00:10:22,276 And psychology was a really big part of Zach's talents, 264 00:10:22,380 --> 00:10:24,658 as it were. 265 00:10:24,762 --> 00:10:28,110 - My research is mostly about personality 266 00:10:28,213 --> 00:10:30,940 and how it influences primarily antisocial behavior. 267 00:10:31,044 --> 00:10:33,840 So I'm really interested in sort of what kind of traits 268 00:10:33,943 --> 00:10:36,359 make people do bad things. 269 00:10:36,463 --> 00:10:39,155 - Is there anything, like, that would be a tell? 270 00:10:39,259 --> 00:10:42,365 - Extreme confidence, I think, is a pretty big one. 271 00:10:42,469 --> 00:10:43,470 I mean, folks, I think, who are, 272 00:10:43,573 --> 00:10:44,678 like, kind of Ponzi schemers 273 00:10:44,782 --> 00:10:46,680 are kind of partially psychopathic 274 00:10:46,784 --> 00:10:48,164 because they have some of the traits 275 00:10:48,268 --> 00:10:49,338 that are associated with psychopathy, 276 00:10:49,441 --> 00:10:51,340 also the traits associated with narcissism 277 00:10:51,443 --> 00:10:52,824 and Machiavellianism. - Hmm. 278 00:10:52,928 --> 00:10:55,171 - But they have decent impulse control. 279 00:10:55,275 --> 00:10:56,932 - Thanks for joining class today. 280 00:10:57,035 --> 00:10:58,658 Can we pull our chairs together? 281 00:10:58,761 --> 00:10:59,935 I just want to have a little bit of a talk 282 00:11:00,038 --> 00:11:02,454 before we get into exercises today. 283 00:11:02,558 --> 00:11:05,492 Really, all we have to do is-- 284 00:11:05,595 --> 00:11:07,114 we want to get into character, right? 285 00:11:07,218 --> 00:11:08,702 We always talk about, "I want to get into character. 286 00:11:08,806 --> 00:11:10,497 How do I get into this character?" 287 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:12,154 Well, the villain of the story 288 00:11:12,257 --> 00:11:14,639 doesn't know that he's the villain. 289 00:11:14,743 --> 00:11:16,296 He's just living his own life, 290 00:11:16,399 --> 00:11:19,195 doing things that he feels justified in doing. 291 00:11:19,299 --> 00:11:22,198 So our job as the actor is to ask ourselves, 292 00:11:22,302 --> 00:11:24,684 what would get me 293 00:11:24,787 --> 00:11:26,824 to do the things that that person did? 294 00:11:26,927 --> 00:11:29,447 What is the justification? 295 00:11:29,550 --> 00:11:30,966 - Does anything stand out to you? 296 00:11:31,069 --> 00:11:32,519 - Well, a lot of crime is about, 297 00:11:32,622 --> 00:11:34,348 like, a lack of restraint. 298 00:11:34,452 --> 00:11:35,418 So it's not about, like, 299 00:11:35,522 --> 00:11:36,385 "I really, really want that badly." 300 00:11:36,488 --> 00:11:37,835 It's, "I kind of want that, 301 00:11:37,938 --> 00:11:39,664 "and there's nothing keeping me from going after it 302 00:11:39,768 --> 00:11:41,252 in whatever way that I want." 303 00:11:41,355 --> 00:11:43,530 - And that's where it gets kind of fucked up 304 00:11:43,633 --> 00:11:45,428 because we're like, wait a second. 305 00:11:45,532 --> 00:11:48,569 We all have the ability to do those things. 306 00:11:48,673 --> 00:11:51,676 If you're pushed, if you're prodded, 307 00:11:51,780 --> 00:11:55,438 if you have enough desperation and need... 308 00:11:55,542 --> 00:11:58,718 - When you start to take those sorts of barriers away, 309 00:11:58,821 --> 00:12:00,685 the world is your oyster, right? 310 00:12:00,789 --> 00:12:02,583 I mean, you can do almost anything. 311 00:12:02,687 --> 00:12:04,102 - As an actor, I feel like 312 00:12:04,206 --> 00:12:06,173 part of the mystique of what we do 313 00:12:06,277 --> 00:12:08,244 is that you don't want people to know 314 00:12:08,348 --> 00:12:10,453 who Zach is as a person. 315 00:12:10,557 --> 00:12:12,283 I want people to be able to see me on a screen 316 00:12:12,386 --> 00:12:15,873 and say, "That character is someone I'm believing." 317 00:12:15,976 --> 00:12:17,460 Caught some chatter on the inside 318 00:12:17,564 --> 00:12:19,704 that might be a real score if moved on pronto. 319 00:12:19,808 --> 00:12:21,016 This kook's brother ripped 320 00:12:21,119 --> 00:12:24,122 a couple elbows from the cartel. 321 00:12:24,226 --> 00:12:25,641 - Sounds good. 322 00:12:25,745 --> 00:12:27,608 - This is really incredible. 323 00:12:27,712 --> 00:12:31,543 Did you know that Zach has a blog? 324 00:12:31,647 --> 00:12:33,476 Well, listen to this. 325 00:12:33,580 --> 00:12:35,133 "From one of my favorite movies, 326 00:12:35,237 --> 00:12:37,273 "'The Pursuit of Happyness.' 327 00:12:37,377 --> 00:12:39,034 "After Will Smith's character's son 328 00:12:39,137 --> 00:12:40,173 "tells him he's going to be 329 00:12:40,276 --> 00:12:41,381 a professional basketball player..." 330 00:12:41,484 --> 00:12:43,624 - [laughs] I'm going pro! 331 00:12:43,728 --> 00:12:45,316 - Oh! 332 00:12:45,419 --> 00:12:47,663 - "He says, 'Don't ever let someone tell you 333 00:12:47,767 --> 00:12:49,458 you can't do something, not even me.'" 334 00:12:49,561 --> 00:12:52,668 both: You got a dream, you gotta protect it. 335 00:12:52,772 --> 00:12:54,808 - "'People can't do something themselves, 336 00:12:54,912 --> 00:12:57,052 they want to tell you you can't do it.'" 337 00:12:57,155 --> 00:12:59,813 both: If you want something, go get it. 338 00:12:59,917 --> 00:13:01,263 Period. 339 00:13:02,574 --> 00:13:04,128 - Zach gets out of school. 340 00:13:04,231 --> 00:13:07,787 He leaves Indiana University and moves to Chicago. 341 00:13:09,305 --> 00:13:10,997 I have to assume that Chicago is 342 00:13:11,100 --> 00:13:12,584 just kind of a center of gravity 343 00:13:12,688 --> 00:13:14,241 in that part of the country. 344 00:13:14,345 --> 00:13:16,416 You're leaving college and going to the big city, 345 00:13:16,519 --> 00:13:18,798 Chicago is gonna be that. 346 00:13:18,901 --> 00:13:22,042 One of the mysteries about his time in Chicago 347 00:13:22,146 --> 00:13:24,873 was this smoothie bar, Ful. 348 00:13:26,806 --> 00:13:28,808 The question was, who gets out of college 349 00:13:28,911 --> 00:13:30,568 and just opens a business in Chicago? 350 00:13:30,671 --> 00:13:31,949 That's not easy to do. 351 00:13:32,052 --> 00:13:34,227 You need some real money. Where did it come from? 352 00:13:34,330 --> 00:13:36,160 I've actually heard both versions, 353 00:13:36,263 --> 00:13:38,990 that there's a rags-to-riches version 354 00:13:39,094 --> 00:13:42,960 but also a came-from-money version. 355 00:13:43,063 --> 00:13:44,789 Zach is said to have told people 356 00:13:44,893 --> 00:13:47,619 that Howard Schultz, the CEO of Starbucks, 357 00:13:47,723 --> 00:13:50,174 had bankrolled him 358 00:13:50,277 --> 00:13:53,487 together with this big finance firm called Maveron. 359 00:13:53,591 --> 00:13:58,389 He would tell people that they were behind this smoothie bar. 360 00:13:58,492 --> 00:14:00,736 We do know that right around that time, 361 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,326 his mother had come into a lot of money, millions of dollars, 362 00:14:04,429 --> 00:14:06,362 that she inherited from her second husband 363 00:14:06,466 --> 00:14:08,054 after he died. 364 00:14:08,157 --> 00:14:09,883 - I'm Zach. This is Anton. 365 00:14:09,987 --> 00:14:11,091 We are Ful. 366 00:14:11,195 --> 00:14:12,368 We're really excited to be a part 367 00:14:12,472 --> 00:14:13,645 of the Lakeview community 368 00:14:13,749 --> 00:14:15,164 and excited to be in Chicago 369 00:14:15,268 --> 00:14:17,063 and fuel the minds, bodies, and spirits 370 00:14:17,166 --> 00:14:18,374 of the Chicago area. 371 00:14:19,962 --> 00:14:22,723 - I think it went under very quickly. 372 00:14:22,827 --> 00:14:24,725 - I think for me, it was always in the back of my head. 373 00:14:24,829 --> 00:14:26,969 You know, I always knew that, you know, 374 00:14:27,073 --> 00:14:29,040 LA was kind of like the dream. 375 00:14:29,144 --> 00:14:32,837 - And to fund this goal of moving to LA-- 376 00:14:32,941 --> 00:14:34,011 because, you know, that's where 377 00:14:34,114 --> 00:14:36,013 everything is for acting-- 378 00:14:36,116 --> 00:14:39,637 you did sell QuickBooks software door-to-door. 379 00:14:39,740 --> 00:14:41,846 Do you think that kind of made you a stronger person 380 00:14:41,950 --> 00:14:43,296 mentally and emotionally? 381 00:14:43,399 --> 00:14:45,505 Because I'm sure a lot of people said no 382 00:14:45,608 --> 00:14:46,506 to what you were selling. 383 00:14:46,609 --> 00:14:47,887 - Oh, yeah, for sure. 384 00:14:47,990 --> 00:14:50,268 98% of the people that I talked to 385 00:14:50,372 --> 00:14:52,650 said no or didn't even listen to what I was selling, 386 00:14:52,753 --> 00:14:53,858 and said no immediately. 387 00:14:53,962 --> 00:14:55,135 - Not interested. Sorry. - Ah. 388 00:14:55,239 --> 00:14:57,172 - I'm in the middle of a card game. 389 00:14:57,275 --> 00:14:58,449 And-- - What are you playing? 390 00:14:58,552 --> 00:15:00,865 - I'm--canasta. 391 00:15:00,969 --> 00:15:02,349 - It was one of those things that-- 392 00:15:02,453 --> 00:15:04,110 I needed money. I needed a job. 393 00:15:04,213 --> 00:15:06,215 I needed something to make enough 394 00:15:06,319 --> 00:15:09,115 to be able to do the thing that I knew I was gonna do. 395 00:15:09,218 --> 00:15:12,497 - At the exact same time that Zach Horwitz owns 396 00:15:12,601 --> 00:15:15,328 a smoothie shop in Chicago, he's also busting his ass, 397 00:15:15,431 --> 00:15:18,745 going door-to-door selling QuickBooks software 398 00:15:18,848 --> 00:15:22,231 to get him and Mallory to LA. 399 00:15:22,335 --> 00:15:25,683 I mean, that doesn't make any sense. 400 00:15:25,786 --> 00:15:28,237 Especially because we know a couple years earlier, 401 00:15:28,341 --> 00:15:30,826 his mom inherits millions after her husband died, 402 00:15:30,930 --> 00:15:32,897 which does actually justify how a kid 403 00:15:33,001 --> 00:15:34,761 right out of college could have the capital 404 00:15:34,864 --> 00:15:37,074 to open a smoothie shop. 405 00:15:37,177 --> 00:15:39,800 But if I--if my mom has a couple million dollars, 406 00:15:39,904 --> 00:15:41,319 I'm not going door-to-door. 407 00:15:41,423 --> 00:15:44,081 [laughs] It doesn't make any sense. 408 00:15:44,184 --> 00:15:45,565 But I think this is like the college football. 409 00:15:45,668 --> 00:15:47,774 This is just, you know, stuff that he's using 410 00:15:47,877 --> 00:15:50,742 to spice up his origin story. 411 00:15:50,846 --> 00:15:52,089 - It's hard at the beginning. 412 00:15:52,192 --> 00:15:54,022 You gotta--you gotta climb the ladder 413 00:15:54,125 --> 00:15:55,955 and--and see what works. 414 00:15:56,058 --> 00:15:58,888 - So let's leave psychology 415 00:15:58,992 --> 00:16:02,030 and smoothie bars behind in Chicago. 416 00:16:02,133 --> 00:16:04,032 He and his partner, Mallory, pack up the car 417 00:16:04,135 --> 00:16:05,550 and move to LA. 418 00:16:05,654 --> 00:16:08,553 [tense music] 419 00:16:08,657 --> 00:16:10,348 โ™ช 420 00:16:10,452 --> 00:16:12,902 - I think the scary part about Zach is, 421 00:16:13,006 --> 00:16:15,664 he came to LA with the plan, with the scheme, 422 00:16:15,767 --> 00:16:17,010 with a persona. 423 00:16:17,114 --> 00:16:19,323 And it was calculated. 424 00:16:19,426 --> 00:16:22,843 It wasn't something he just kind of fell into. 425 00:16:22,947 --> 00:16:25,260 He knew what he was doing from the start. 426 00:16:27,262 --> 00:16:29,574 When I was 21 years old, I kind of packed up my job 427 00:16:29,678 --> 00:16:31,991 at a pinnacle of my career and I went out to LA. 428 00:16:32,094 --> 00:16:34,269 I wanted to chase the Hollywood dream. 429 00:16:35,442 --> 00:16:37,444 I wanted to meet people, network with people. 430 00:16:37,548 --> 00:16:39,136 I wanted to do everything I possibly could. 431 00:16:39,239 --> 00:16:42,380 And I was enamored by the industry. 432 00:16:44,141 --> 00:16:47,247 I think Hollywood represents opportunity. 433 00:16:47,351 --> 00:16:51,251 And anything you want to do is available for you to do there. 434 00:16:52,321 --> 00:16:54,496 I got a call for a role. 435 00:16:54,599 --> 00:16:56,118 It was a small role, but I said, hey, what the heck? 436 00:16:56,222 --> 00:16:57,706 You never know who you're gonna meet. 437 00:16:57,809 --> 00:16:59,501 You hear stories like that all the time in LA. 438 00:16:59,604 --> 00:17:00,812 You just have to go. 439 00:17:00,916 --> 00:17:03,505 You never know what directors or producers or connections 440 00:17:03,608 --> 00:17:05,403 you're gonna meet. 441 00:17:05,507 --> 00:17:07,129 I was on that drive for two hours. 442 00:17:07,233 --> 00:17:09,338 Almost turned around 25 times. 443 00:17:09,442 --> 00:17:11,064 Like, "What am I doing? This is two hours away. 444 00:17:11,168 --> 00:17:12,652 It pays nothing." 445 00:17:12,755 --> 00:17:16,483 But I pushed through and showed up to set. 446 00:17:16,587 --> 00:17:18,278 It was one of those roles where everybody kind of 447 00:17:18,382 --> 00:17:19,900 looks the same, talks the same. 448 00:17:20,004 --> 00:17:21,557 But me and Zach were just obviously cut 449 00:17:21,661 --> 00:17:22,696 from a different cloth. 450 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:24,250 We instantly bonded. 451 00:17:24,353 --> 00:17:27,115 We exchanged phone numbers and made it a plan 452 00:17:27,218 --> 00:17:30,083 to link up right after that. 453 00:17:30,187 --> 00:17:33,293 And that's--that's the day I met Zach Horwitz. 454 00:17:33,397 --> 00:17:36,020 And that's a movie I wish I would've never shown up to. 455 00:17:36,124 --> 00:17:38,643 I can tell you that much. 456 00:17:39,368 --> 00:17:42,371 - If you know that you came from Indiana or wherever 457 00:17:42,475 --> 00:17:44,373 and drove across country or flew here 458 00:17:44,477 --> 00:17:46,513 to land in this place, to follow this dream, 459 00:17:46,617 --> 00:17:48,757 you obviously had something in there that said, 460 00:17:48,860 --> 00:17:49,861 like, "I'm good enough. 461 00:17:49,965 --> 00:17:51,346 I can do this." 462 00:17:51,449 --> 00:17:53,624 And it is, yeah, about studying, 463 00:17:53,727 --> 00:17:55,281 going to class, and things like that. 464 00:17:55,384 --> 00:17:58,698 But it's also about making connections with people. 465 00:17:58,801 --> 00:18:01,494 - After meeting Zach on set, literally the next day, 466 00:18:01,597 --> 00:18:03,496 he invites me over to meet his girlfriend 467 00:18:03,599 --> 00:18:05,360 and just kind of hang out and talk shop 468 00:18:05,463 --> 00:18:06,844 and get to know each other. 469 00:18:06,947 --> 00:18:08,225 I meet Mallory, who, at the time, 470 00:18:08,328 --> 00:18:09,778 wanted to be a wedding planner. 471 00:18:09,881 --> 00:18:11,366 She had big aspirations 472 00:18:11,469 --> 00:18:12,953 to be a celebrity stylist in LA. 473 00:18:13,057 --> 00:18:14,679 And she was going to school for it. 474 00:18:14,783 --> 00:18:16,440 And they tell me their story about, you know, 475 00:18:16,543 --> 00:18:19,857 being from a small-town family and small-town school. 476 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,412 - Zach and Mallory have been together since they were 19. 477 00:18:23,516 --> 00:18:25,828 And there's really no evidence to suggest 478 00:18:25,932 --> 00:18:27,002 that she knew about the scam. 479 00:18:27,106 --> 00:18:30,523 But their relationship, their family, 480 00:18:30,626 --> 00:18:33,077 is a huge part of what makes him credible. 481 00:18:33,181 --> 00:18:34,665 So this is your camera here. 482 00:18:34,768 --> 00:18:36,149 You can just, you know, stare down the barrel. 483 00:18:36,253 --> 00:18:38,117 We're gonna do a slate. How's it going? 484 00:18:38,220 --> 00:18:39,428 - Doing all right. - Good, good, good. 485 00:18:39,532 --> 00:18:40,636 - How about you? - Yeah, I'm great. 486 00:18:40,740 --> 00:18:41,706 Thanks for being here. 487 00:18:41,810 --> 00:18:43,536 - It kind of struck me as really familiar 488 00:18:43,639 --> 00:18:46,194 because I had a friend whose father, actually, 489 00:18:46,297 --> 00:18:48,403 was a part of a Ponzi scheme. 490 00:18:48,506 --> 00:18:50,922 The aftermath leaves a lot of hurt. 491 00:18:51,026 --> 00:18:52,959 - I think he's a psychopath. 492 00:18:53,062 --> 00:18:54,478 And I don't like men like that. 493 00:18:54,581 --> 00:18:56,687 - I guess there's a lot that we don't know about people, 494 00:18:56,790 --> 00:18:58,482 just from passing by. 495 00:18:58,585 --> 00:19:01,278 - It almost seems like a parallel universe, like-- 496 00:19:01,381 --> 00:19:03,280 like it's someone that I could have known. 497 00:19:03,383 --> 00:19:04,522 - Do you think she knew what was up? 498 00:19:04,626 --> 00:19:05,868 - Probably not. 499 00:19:05,972 --> 00:19:07,939 The woman doesn't normally know. 500 00:19:08,043 --> 00:19:09,803 - I think that she convinced herself 501 00:19:09,907 --> 00:19:11,253 what he was saying was true. 502 00:19:11,357 --> 00:19:15,223 - I mean, his eyes are-- are stunning. 503 00:19:15,326 --> 00:19:16,362 Very attractive eyes. 504 00:19:16,465 --> 00:19:17,811 Pulls you right in. 505 00:19:19,813 --> 00:19:22,437 He definitely had charisma and confidence. 506 00:19:22,540 --> 00:19:24,370 And you couple that with good looks 507 00:19:24,473 --> 00:19:27,096 and if you know what to say, people will believe you. 508 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,410 โ™ช 509 00:19:30,514 --> 00:19:34,483 So I give Zach my two months' expertise 510 00:19:34,587 --> 00:19:36,658 on what I figured out in the industry. 511 00:19:36,761 --> 00:19:39,316 And I told him that if you want to make it in LA, 512 00:19:39,419 --> 00:19:40,524 you got to do something yourself. 513 00:19:40,627 --> 00:19:41,766 So he kind of leans into me, 514 00:19:41,870 --> 00:19:44,079 and he goes, "Well, how much does it take 515 00:19:44,183 --> 00:19:45,356 to make a movie?" 516 00:19:45,460 --> 00:19:48,152 And I'm like, "Well, like blockbusters, or--" 517 00:19:48,256 --> 00:19:49,671 he's like, "No, something kind of smaller." 518 00:19:49,774 --> 00:19:51,466 I'm like, "Well, I think you make one 519 00:19:51,569 --> 00:19:53,019 for a couple million, you know?" 520 00:19:53,122 --> 00:19:55,021 And he's like, "Really? Okay, okay." 521 00:19:55,124 --> 00:19:57,679 I look at him, and-- 522 00:19:57,782 --> 00:19:58,852 "What do you mean?" 523 00:19:58,956 --> 00:20:01,200 Like, you know, he had this kind of persona 524 00:20:01,303 --> 00:20:03,132 that, like, "Well, I can afford that." 525 00:20:03,236 --> 00:20:05,238 So I'm just kind of like, huh. 526 00:20:05,342 --> 00:20:06,929 And he tells me about 527 00:20:07,033 --> 00:20:08,517 a company he founded called Ful. 528 00:20:08,621 --> 00:20:09,967 He told me he was so successful, 529 00:20:10,070 --> 00:20:13,971 he opened multiple stores in a matter of six months. 530 00:20:14,523 --> 00:20:17,216 And he told me it eventually sold to Maveron. 531 00:20:17,319 --> 00:20:18,769 He was whispering all this. 532 00:20:18,872 --> 00:20:20,357 He was being a little bit coy about it, 533 00:20:20,460 --> 00:20:22,945 but I was absolutely intrigued. 534 00:20:23,049 --> 00:20:26,604 And I asked him, "How much did you sell Ful for?" 535 00:20:26,708 --> 00:20:29,745 And he leans over to me like he's telling a secret. 536 00:20:29,849 --> 00:20:31,230 And he's like, "Look, I'll tell you, 537 00:20:31,333 --> 00:20:32,507 "but you can't tell Mallory. 538 00:20:32,610 --> 00:20:33,853 "You know, I just don't want Mallory to know 539 00:20:33,956 --> 00:20:35,164 exactly how much it is." 540 00:20:35,268 --> 00:20:38,789 And he leans over and tells me he sold it for $11 million. 541 00:20:38,892 --> 00:20:40,342 So, you know, in my head, I was like, 542 00:20:40,446 --> 00:20:42,379 okay, you know, I just met this guy. 543 00:20:42,482 --> 00:20:43,863 He wants to make a movie in LA. 544 00:20:43,966 --> 00:20:46,106 And he's got 11 million bucks in his--his pocket. 545 00:20:46,210 --> 00:20:48,316 You know, he's my new best friend. 546 00:20:48,419 --> 00:20:49,800 You know what I mean? 547 00:20:49,903 --> 00:20:53,286 So this is someone I might develop a relationship with. 548 00:20:55,737 --> 00:20:57,980 [soft music] 549 00:20:58,084 --> 00:21:01,260 So me and Zach spent literally the next two weeks, 550 00:21:01,363 --> 00:21:04,435 day and night, you know, dusk till dawn, 551 00:21:04,539 --> 00:21:06,472 thinking we're Ben Affleck, Matt Damon. 552 00:21:06,575 --> 00:21:09,751 I mean, we're writing script ideas and outlines. 553 00:21:09,854 --> 00:21:12,650 And you hear the story of how they wrote their own script 554 00:21:12,754 --> 00:21:14,549 and made it big, won the Oscar, and... 555 00:21:14,652 --> 00:21:16,136 - I just said to Matt, losing would suck 556 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:17,241 and winning would be really scary. 557 00:21:17,345 --> 00:21:19,623 And it's really, really scary. 558 00:21:19,726 --> 00:21:21,349 - It's kind of who we thought we were gonna be, you know? 559 00:21:21,452 --> 00:21:22,764 We were just a couple people 560 00:21:22,867 --> 00:21:24,628 just wanting to tackle the Hollywood dream. 561 00:21:24,731 --> 00:21:28,010 - Who are some of your biggest inspirations, acting wise? 562 00:21:28,114 --> 00:21:30,668 - I would say Tom Cruise, for sure. 563 00:21:30,772 --> 00:21:32,567 You know, he's--he's one of those guys 564 00:21:32,670 --> 00:21:36,674 that every single movie he's in, he's good. 565 00:21:36,778 --> 00:21:39,988 Leo is amazing. 566 00:21:40,091 --> 00:21:41,472 I mean, he is--he's just-- 567 00:21:41,576 --> 00:21:45,580 what he's able to do is ungodly. 568 00:21:45,683 --> 00:21:48,341 - You don't get these lines right, 569 00:21:48,445 --> 00:21:50,861 I'm gonna blow your fucking brains out tonight. 570 00:21:50,964 --> 00:21:52,276 - And then more recently, 571 00:21:52,380 --> 00:21:54,313 Bradley Cooper, I think, is incredible as well, 572 00:21:54,416 --> 00:21:55,900 especially "A Star Is Born" that he just did. 573 00:21:56,004 --> 00:21:58,662 I mean, writing it, directing it, acting in it, 574 00:21:58,765 --> 00:22:01,043 totally transforming into this guy, 575 00:22:01,147 --> 00:22:04,012 those are the performances that I watch that I'm like, 576 00:22:04,115 --> 00:22:07,912 I'm in the right job, because at some point, 577 00:22:08,016 --> 00:22:11,502 if I get even close to that, everything's great. 578 00:22:11,606 --> 00:22:14,436 - You want answers. - I want the truth! 579 00:22:14,540 --> 00:22:16,162 - He was my brother. 580 00:22:16,265 --> 00:22:19,303 And he was one hell of a soldier. 581 00:22:19,407 --> 00:22:21,512 Everything he did, 582 00:22:21,616 --> 00:22:27,415 work, school, friendship, 583 00:22:27,518 --> 00:22:29,934 he did it 110%. 584 00:22:30,038 --> 00:22:34,353 I am completely and utterly in love with you. 585 00:22:34,456 --> 00:22:36,803 I'm the man of the house now. 586 00:22:36,907 --> 00:22:38,667 You know why? 587 00:22:38,771 --> 00:22:41,705 'Cause you're just a fucking child. 588 00:22:41,808 --> 00:22:44,673 [dark music] 589 00:22:44,777 --> 00:22:46,295 - Okay, so we have this script in hand. 590 00:22:46,399 --> 00:22:48,332 And, you know, what we learned is, 591 00:22:48,436 --> 00:22:49,816 you got to have an actor attached. 592 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:51,439 - It's got a major star interested. 593 00:22:51,542 --> 00:22:53,337 - Which star? - Who are the stars? 594 00:22:53,441 --> 00:22:55,615 - We need a male lead, and we need him now. 595 00:22:55,719 --> 00:22:56,892 - Two. 596 00:22:56,996 --> 00:22:58,653 - And action. 597 00:22:58,756 --> 00:23:00,724 - You get an A-list actor attached, 598 00:23:00,827 --> 00:23:04,141 that brings a certain value to your movie--or a director. 599 00:23:04,244 --> 00:23:05,660 - Cut. Very good. 600 00:23:05,763 --> 00:23:07,524 - Right, 'cause if you get the right director attached, 601 00:23:07,627 --> 00:23:09,802 then the right actor will attach themselves. 602 00:23:09,905 --> 00:23:12,149 - Happy birthday, you son of a bitch. 603 00:23:12,252 --> 00:23:14,393 - So since we didn't have an A-list director attached, 604 00:23:14,496 --> 00:23:16,256 that made it extremely difficult 605 00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:18,362 to get an A-list actor attached. 606 00:23:18,466 --> 00:23:20,157 - No stars. Just talent. 607 00:23:20,260 --> 00:23:21,503 - No stars? 608 00:23:21,607 --> 00:23:23,540 - Yeah, this was like six, seven, eight months 609 00:23:23,643 --> 00:23:26,197 of just grinding and hitting the pavement, 610 00:23:26,301 --> 00:23:27,578 talking to everybody under the sun, 611 00:23:27,682 --> 00:23:30,063 hearing their opinions on how we should do it. 612 00:23:30,167 --> 00:23:31,617 It was exhausting. 613 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,033 But this was just trying to make it happen in LA. 614 00:23:36,518 --> 00:23:39,625 - What I think I understand from Craig is that 615 00:23:39,728 --> 00:23:42,766 Zach's not offering to use any of his "$11 million" 616 00:23:42,869 --> 00:23:44,457 to fund the movie that he wants to make with Craig. 617 00:23:44,561 --> 00:23:46,770 That is key. 618 00:23:50,705 --> 00:23:52,603 - Zach created a couple short films 619 00:23:52,707 --> 00:23:55,572 early on in his career to try and get his name out. 620 00:23:55,675 --> 00:23:56,883 One was "The Laughing Man." 621 00:23:56,987 --> 00:23:59,472 - Mommy always said I was different. 622 00:23:59,576 --> 00:24:01,681 - This is a fan-fiction origin story on the Joker 623 00:24:01,785 --> 00:24:03,442 from the Batman series. 624 00:24:03,545 --> 00:24:05,305 And I remember when it came out. 625 00:24:05,409 --> 00:24:08,861 And--you know, it was pretty creepy. 626 00:24:08,964 --> 00:24:11,519 [disturbing music] 627 00:24:11,622 --> 00:24:15,730 [maniacal laughter] 628 00:24:15,833 --> 00:24:17,456 You know, it went a little viral 629 00:24:17,559 --> 00:24:19,181 when--but that really got his name out there 630 00:24:19,285 --> 00:24:21,287 and grabbed some attention. 631 00:24:21,390 --> 00:24:24,014 - I'm not gonna kill you. 632 00:24:24,117 --> 00:24:26,499 I'm just gonna hurt you-- 633 00:24:26,603 --> 00:24:30,848 really, really bad. 634 00:24:32,850 --> 00:24:35,335 - Here's another entry from Zach's blog. 635 00:24:35,439 --> 00:24:37,476 "My sister gave me a framed picture 636 00:24:37,579 --> 00:24:39,892 "about ten years ago that said, 637 00:24:39,995 --> 00:24:42,101 "'When the odds are one in million, 638 00:24:42,204 --> 00:24:43,551 "be that one.' 639 00:24:43,654 --> 00:24:44,793 "This was the impetus 640 00:24:44,897 --> 00:24:46,899 "for naming my company what it was named. 641 00:24:47,002 --> 00:24:48,487 "I absolutely love this phrase, 642 00:24:48,590 --> 00:24:50,523 "and I believe it can be a driving force 643 00:24:50,627 --> 00:24:54,803 for positivity and productivity." 644 00:24:54,907 --> 00:24:57,116 Wow. 645 00:24:57,219 --> 00:25:00,188 [soft music] 646 00:25:00,291 --> 00:25:04,157 โ™ช 647 00:25:04,261 --> 00:25:05,745 - Cool? - Yes. 648 00:25:05,849 --> 00:25:06,746 - Great. 649 00:25:06,850 --> 00:25:08,403 - My name is John Verrastro. 650 00:25:08,507 --> 00:25:10,336 I'm a Special Agent with the FBI 651 00:25:10,439 --> 00:25:12,821 in the Los Angeles field office. 652 00:25:12,925 --> 00:25:14,513 High-yield investment fraud and Ponzi schemes 653 00:25:14,616 --> 00:25:17,101 are common in Los Angeles. 654 00:25:17,205 --> 00:25:21,623 The size and scope of this one is quite unique. 655 00:25:21,727 --> 00:25:24,177 Zach Horwitz was purportedly purchasing 656 00:25:24,281 --> 00:25:25,524 the rights to various movies. 657 00:25:25,627 --> 00:25:27,767 And then he was licensing these rights 658 00:25:27,871 --> 00:25:32,531 to Netflix, HBO, and then other distribution platforms. 659 00:25:34,947 --> 00:25:37,397 - Somehow, he seems to have gotten ahold 660 00:25:37,501 --> 00:25:40,815 of legitimate film licensing 661 00:25:40,918 --> 00:25:43,852 and film distribution contracts 662 00:25:43,956 --> 00:25:48,547 that Netflix, HBO, or others were using. 663 00:25:48,650 --> 00:25:52,620 Once he had legitimate contracts in his hands, 664 00:25:52,723 --> 00:25:55,933 then he was able to take it and run. 665 00:25:57,521 --> 00:25:59,074 And that's exactly what he did. 666 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,222 - Zach Horwitz started this mostly, you know, utilizing, 667 00:26:09,326 --> 00:26:10,707 like, friends and family 668 00:26:10,810 --> 00:26:12,916 as his initial set of investors. 669 00:26:14,745 --> 00:26:16,575 - Zach gave me the opportunity 670 00:26:16,678 --> 00:26:19,163 to become an investor in 1inMM. 671 00:26:19,267 --> 00:26:22,753 So he says, "Craig, I think I can get you in, you know? 672 00:26:22,857 --> 00:26:24,375 I think you can invest." 673 00:26:24,479 --> 00:26:26,895 So my thought process is, of course. 674 00:26:26,999 --> 00:26:30,485 These are deals with Netflix, HBO, Howard Schultz. 675 00:26:30,589 --> 00:26:31,866 They're doing them. 676 00:26:31,969 --> 00:26:34,144 And now I have that same opportunity 677 00:26:34,247 --> 00:26:36,664 to become an investor in this same platform 678 00:26:36,767 --> 00:26:38,942 that Zach has created? 679 00:26:40,357 --> 00:26:42,117 No-brainer. Right? 680 00:26:42,221 --> 00:26:44,464 I don't think twice. 681 00:26:44,568 --> 00:26:47,364 I take out my savings that I have in a real estate fund. 682 00:26:47,467 --> 00:26:49,055 And I give it to Zach. 683 00:26:49,159 --> 00:26:51,782 And I become the first investor in 1inMM Capital. 684 00:26:51,886 --> 00:26:55,337 [sentimental music] 685 00:26:55,441 --> 00:26:57,408 - My wife and I are always looking for ways 686 00:26:57,512 --> 00:26:59,618 to earn passive income. 687 00:26:59,721 --> 00:27:01,171 I had invested in real estate 688 00:27:01,274 --> 00:27:03,794 and in a few small companies here and there. 689 00:27:03,898 --> 00:27:06,176 And so I was looking for other investments. 690 00:27:09,697 --> 00:27:12,527 Scott Cohen, a good friend of mine, 691 00:27:12,631 --> 00:27:15,323 he said, there's some opportunity in film. 692 00:27:15,426 --> 00:27:17,394 And I am a screenwriter. 693 00:27:17,497 --> 00:27:18,775 So I was intrigued. 694 00:27:18,878 --> 00:27:21,018 And he sent me, like, an investor pack. 695 00:27:21,122 --> 00:27:22,951 When I first saw the business plan, 696 00:27:23,055 --> 00:27:25,816 it was, as most are, just sunshine and roses, right? 697 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,889 It's all the positive aspects of this deal. 698 00:27:29,993 --> 00:27:31,650 - What was going on in my head then 699 00:27:31,753 --> 00:27:34,376 was not how good a salesman this guy was. 700 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,207 It was that there was HBO and Netflix and these films. 701 00:27:37,310 --> 00:27:38,726 Like, why would I have to trust him? 702 00:27:38,829 --> 00:27:40,348 I see these contracts. 703 00:27:40,451 --> 00:27:41,729 - Right away, I said to him, 704 00:27:41,832 --> 00:27:45,042 "How do we know this isn't a Ponzi scheme?" 705 00:27:45,146 --> 00:27:46,941 And the answer I got back was just that, 706 00:27:47,044 --> 00:27:48,770 "Of course it isn't, and here's why." 707 00:27:48,874 --> 00:27:53,257 And I trusted that. 708 00:27:53,361 --> 00:27:55,535 - In its most simple form, the Ponzi scheme 709 00:27:55,639 --> 00:27:59,367 is the money part of a scam. 710 00:27:59,988 --> 00:28:02,404 My name's Supervisory Special Agent Doug Thompson. 711 00:28:02,508 --> 00:28:06,201 And I work with the FBI in the White Collar unit. 712 00:28:06,305 --> 00:28:07,686 The money comes in. 713 00:28:07,789 --> 00:28:10,550 And that money is used to pay returns. 714 00:28:10,654 --> 00:28:12,138 There's no actual business going on. 715 00:28:12,242 --> 00:28:14,416 There's no profits in most of these cases. 716 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,317 And those payments that the investors believe 717 00:28:18,420 --> 00:28:21,458 are the profits are actually just the initial capital 718 00:28:21,561 --> 00:28:22,839 that the investors gave. 719 00:28:22,942 --> 00:28:25,048 New investors are paying old investors. 720 00:28:25,151 --> 00:28:27,671 You have to have a scheme to defraud the folks 721 00:28:27,775 --> 00:28:29,086 whose money you're taking. 722 00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:32,089 So when you've misrepresented to them 723 00:28:32,193 --> 00:28:33,608 what you're gonna take the money for, 724 00:28:33,712 --> 00:28:35,058 you accept the money, 725 00:28:35,161 --> 00:28:37,129 now you've gone down the road of committing fraud. 726 00:28:39,407 --> 00:28:42,997 - I met Zach Avery when I was raising money for venture. 727 00:28:43,100 --> 00:28:47,967 And he was part of the VC team that invested. 728 00:28:48,071 --> 00:28:50,487 He didn't come across as, like, a tech guy. 729 00:28:50,590 --> 00:28:53,697 So I just assumed, like, yeah, he's a trust fund kid. 730 00:28:53,801 --> 00:28:55,250 You know, he's charming. 731 00:28:55,354 --> 00:28:57,666 And he was able to kind of talk enough, 732 00:28:57,770 --> 00:29:01,360 like, venture, talk enough, like, Hollywood. 733 00:29:01,463 --> 00:29:03,880 It's kind of, like, a hot place to be right now, 734 00:29:03,983 --> 00:29:05,502 is being able to move between those worlds. 735 00:29:05,605 --> 00:29:07,849 And, you know, you see folks like Ryan Reynolds... 736 00:29:07,953 --> 00:29:09,230 - You're an actor. 737 00:29:09,333 --> 00:29:11,335 You're the owner of cell carrier Mint Mobile. 738 00:29:11,439 --> 00:29:14,442 - Jessica Alba, with the Honest Company. 739 00:29:14,545 --> 00:29:16,306 Snoop Dogg is another one. 740 00:29:16,409 --> 00:29:18,929 They have all done very well being an investor 741 00:29:19,033 --> 00:29:22,691 and also an entrepreneur and also an actor. 742 00:29:22,795 --> 00:29:24,417 Zach, you know, he played that character well, 743 00:29:24,521 --> 00:29:25,625 that, "Hey, I'm this guy 744 00:29:25,729 --> 00:29:29,768 that can do a little bit of everything." 745 00:29:29,871 --> 00:29:32,287 - What's the difference between a pyramid scheme 746 00:29:32,391 --> 00:29:33,875 and a Ponzi scheme? 747 00:29:33,979 --> 00:29:35,566 - They're related. 748 00:29:35,670 --> 00:29:37,085 - Okay. - Okay? 749 00:29:37,189 --> 00:29:41,262 And I would say that you might classify a Ponzi scheme 750 00:29:41,365 --> 00:29:44,265 as sort of the evil cousin of the pyramid scheme. 751 00:29:44,368 --> 00:29:45,438 - All right. 752 00:29:45,542 --> 00:29:47,026 - In a Ponzi scheme, 753 00:29:47,130 --> 00:29:48,959 there's one person running the show. 754 00:29:49,063 --> 00:29:51,686 So you got-- you got your con man. 755 00:29:51,790 --> 00:29:53,067 - Okay. 756 00:29:53,170 --> 00:29:56,173 - Okay, let's call it ZH for Zach Horwitz. 757 00:29:56,277 --> 00:29:58,175 And he comes up with this scheme. 758 00:29:58,279 --> 00:30:02,317 And he's got friends out there, 759 00:30:02,421 --> 00:30:03,871 potential investors. 760 00:30:06,770 --> 00:30:08,807 - A-B-C. 761 00:30:08,910 --> 00:30:11,637 A, Always, B, Be, C, Closing. 762 00:30:11,740 --> 00:30:13,777 Always Be Closing. 763 00:30:13,881 --> 00:30:17,160 Always Be Closing. 764 00:30:17,263 --> 00:30:19,472 - And he gets them to invest. 765 00:30:19,576 --> 00:30:21,233 So they put money in. 766 00:30:21,336 --> 00:30:23,442 - The entry level was 10 grand. 767 00:30:23,545 --> 00:30:25,858 - Okay, so he's taking in at least 30 grand here. 768 00:30:25,962 --> 00:30:27,135 - Okay. - Okay? 769 00:30:27,239 --> 00:30:29,137 And he's promising that in six months, 770 00:30:29,241 --> 00:30:32,623 they'll get back their money plus 15%, okay? 771 00:30:32,727 --> 00:30:33,693 That's a really good rate of return. 772 00:30:33,797 --> 00:30:35,109 - Mm-hmm. 773 00:30:35,212 --> 00:30:37,766 - Your profit on a mere $6,000 investment 774 00:30:37,870 --> 00:30:40,804 would be upwards of $60,000. 775 00:30:40,908 --> 00:30:42,599 - Now, how is he gonna pay them back? 776 00:30:42,702 --> 00:30:44,912 So then he says, "Well, I got to get some more money." 777 00:30:45,015 --> 00:30:48,847 So he goes out, finds another group of investors. 778 00:30:48,950 --> 00:30:51,332 - We are looking to make strategic relationships 779 00:30:51,435 --> 00:30:52,851 to move that along. 780 00:30:52,954 --> 00:30:54,853 But I kind of agree with Mark Zuckerberg 781 00:30:54,956 --> 00:30:58,995 when he said, "Move fast and break things." 782 00:30:59,098 --> 00:31:00,444 - Right? - Uh-huh. 783 00:31:00,548 --> 00:31:02,101 - Okay. 784 00:31:02,205 --> 00:31:05,449 And then some of this money 785 00:31:05,553 --> 00:31:09,660 is going to pay off the early investors, okay? 786 00:31:09,764 --> 00:31:11,007 But if you've upped the ante, 787 00:31:11,110 --> 00:31:12,456 it's no longer 10,000 to get in. 788 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,563 You need 20,000 now or 30,000 or 40,000. 789 00:31:15,666 --> 00:31:17,047 But these people might decide, 790 00:31:17,151 --> 00:31:19,187 "Well, I'm gonna just take this money. 791 00:31:19,291 --> 00:31:22,087 It was a good deal, so I'll just go in again." 792 00:31:22,190 --> 00:31:25,573 - I am talking about giving you $100 million. 793 00:31:25,676 --> 00:31:29,818 - If you go above 4, we might have something. 794 00:31:29,922 --> 00:31:31,268 - I can do that. 795 00:31:31,372 --> 00:31:33,581 - So he gets paid off in principle. 796 00:31:33,684 --> 00:31:35,583 But he reinvests. 797 00:31:35,686 --> 00:31:37,516 Now, of course, these people expect their money too. 798 00:31:37,619 --> 00:31:38,931 Okay? 799 00:31:39,035 --> 00:31:40,450 So then you go to-- you know, you keep doing it, 800 00:31:40,553 --> 00:31:42,624 especially since you're draining some money out. 801 00:31:42,728 --> 00:31:44,557 So you have to get more and more. 802 00:31:44,661 --> 00:31:47,388 As long as they think that it's legitimate 803 00:31:47,491 --> 00:31:50,115 and that they are, in fact, earning these returns... 804 00:31:50,218 --> 00:31:53,739 - I got a whole suite full of mainframe computers. 805 00:31:53,842 --> 00:31:55,085 - We're not really interested, Henry. 806 00:31:55,189 --> 00:31:57,467 - Oh, they are so beautiful. 807 00:31:57,570 --> 00:31:59,227 Listen to 'em hum. 808 00:31:59,331 --> 00:32:00,504 - [chuckles] 809 00:32:00,608 --> 00:32:04,267 Henry, don't try Mr. Hemming's patience. 810 00:32:04,370 --> 00:32:07,028 - You sure? 811 00:32:07,132 --> 00:32:09,479 - It tends to feed on itself. 812 00:32:09,582 --> 00:32:13,655 And if that happens enough, then you're in good shape. 813 00:32:13,759 --> 00:32:16,141 - The key to a Ponzi scheme is getting more investors 814 00:32:16,244 --> 00:32:17,694 in the Ponzi scheme. 815 00:32:17,797 --> 00:32:21,008 There's a pattern to it, where they identify the people 816 00:32:21,111 --> 00:32:22,319 they want to target. 817 00:32:22,423 --> 00:32:24,218 They build rapport with them. 818 00:32:24,321 --> 00:32:27,083 They convince them that they've got this secret way 819 00:32:27,186 --> 00:32:30,086 of creating obscene amounts of wealth. 820 00:32:30,189 --> 00:32:33,020 And that grooming part of this is important, 821 00:32:33,123 --> 00:32:36,230 because it's not just to get them to invest, 822 00:32:36,333 --> 00:32:38,646 but you want them to bring in their friends 823 00:32:38,749 --> 00:32:42,512 and their social network. 824 00:32:42,615 --> 00:32:45,101 - There is a feeling of exclusivity 825 00:32:45,204 --> 00:32:47,034 in that you've been invited in. 826 00:32:47,137 --> 00:32:48,518 You've now joined this club. 827 00:32:48,621 --> 00:32:53,626 And there's always this notion that, 828 00:32:53,730 --> 00:32:55,490 particularly in Ponzi schemes, 829 00:32:55,594 --> 00:32:58,148 there are only so many deals to go around. 830 00:32:58,252 --> 00:33:01,289 - He just had the Hollywood lingo down. 831 00:33:01,393 --> 00:33:04,292 And he had so much bravado behind it, 832 00:33:04,396 --> 00:33:06,536 and he seemed to talk the talk that, you know, 833 00:33:06,639 --> 00:33:08,641 people who were outside of that world 834 00:33:08,745 --> 00:33:10,471 were susceptible to it. 835 00:33:10,574 --> 00:33:13,301 So I think in that respect, that's how his scheme worked. 836 00:33:13,405 --> 00:33:14,544 - Oh, it's not a problem. 837 00:33:14,647 --> 00:33:16,718 A friend in need is a friend indeed, right? 838 00:33:16,822 --> 00:33:18,272 - There was a sense of intrigue 839 00:33:18,375 --> 00:33:20,895 that is beyond the typical scheme, 840 00:33:20,999 --> 00:33:22,276 where someone says, 841 00:33:22,379 --> 00:33:24,347 "You're going to be investing in the stock market." 842 00:33:24,450 --> 00:33:26,107 They don't know anything about these companies. 843 00:33:26,211 --> 00:33:28,178 But they do all think they know something about movies. 844 00:33:28,282 --> 00:33:30,732 And I think investors enjoyed saying 845 00:33:30,836 --> 00:33:32,596 that they were investing in films. 846 00:33:32,700 --> 00:33:35,565 - Most of the investors investing in movies 847 00:33:35,668 --> 00:33:37,774 and in Hollywood don't really understand 848 00:33:37,877 --> 00:33:39,707 how movies and Hollywood really work. 849 00:33:39,810 --> 00:33:42,158 And that's where Ponzi schemes, 850 00:33:42,261 --> 00:33:43,745 fraudsters live. 851 00:33:43,849 --> 00:33:46,955 They love to get in an area where you know a little bit 852 00:33:47,059 --> 00:33:49,613 but you don't fully understand it. 853 00:33:49,717 --> 00:33:52,789 - When you use actual, real movie titles that exist, 854 00:33:52,892 --> 00:33:54,653 where somebody can go and verify, 855 00:33:54,756 --> 00:33:57,794 "Okay, this seems legitimate, and we can get these returns 856 00:33:57,897 --> 00:33:59,209 "because he's actually using 857 00:33:59,313 --> 00:34:00,555 "our money to purchase these things, 858 00:34:00,659 --> 00:34:02,454 "and then he has these existing agreements 859 00:34:02,557 --> 00:34:03,869 "where he's selling them to them, 860 00:34:03,972 --> 00:34:06,527 so the money's gonna come in." 861 00:34:06,630 --> 00:34:08,977 - When it was presented to us, it came from a company 862 00:34:09,081 --> 00:34:11,532 called JJMT out of Chicago. 863 00:34:11,635 --> 00:34:16,537 They were sort of the advisors to us on account of 1inMM, 864 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:18,884 which was the company that was purportedly buying 865 00:34:18,987 --> 00:34:20,403 the rights to these films. 866 00:34:20,506 --> 00:34:23,785 And all of the members of JJMT were in the finance sector. 867 00:34:23,889 --> 00:34:27,651 So as far as we understood, they had vetted everything. 868 00:34:27,755 --> 00:34:31,069 And that lended credence to this whole scheme. 869 00:34:33,519 --> 00:34:35,383 - The investors would ask, "Well, what if you can't 870 00:34:35,487 --> 00:34:37,247 get it distributed or something like that?" 871 00:34:37,351 --> 00:34:38,524 "Oh, you don't have to worry about that. 872 00:34:38,628 --> 00:34:40,250 "There's some kind of a fail-safe thing. 873 00:34:40,354 --> 00:34:43,046 Don't worry, it's always a safe investment." 874 00:34:43,150 --> 00:34:46,256 - You had every bit of documentation 875 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,639 you could possibly imagine to, you know, believe 876 00:34:49,742 --> 00:34:52,124 that you are, you know, undertaking-- 877 00:34:52,228 --> 00:34:53,746 putting your money in an incredibly safe 878 00:34:53,850 --> 00:34:54,920 and secure investment. 879 00:34:55,023 --> 00:34:56,370 You know, there was even clauses, 880 00:34:56,473 --> 00:34:58,061 if HBO doesn't pay or Netflix pay, 881 00:34:58,165 --> 00:34:59,373 what would happen then? 882 00:34:59,476 --> 00:35:01,271 How would, you know, we get our money back? 883 00:35:01,375 --> 00:35:03,722 And it was all laid out. 884 00:35:03,825 --> 00:35:04,895 - So in a case like this, 885 00:35:04,999 --> 00:35:06,414 with promissory notes being used, 886 00:35:06,518 --> 00:35:09,210 at the expiration of the promissory note, 887 00:35:09,314 --> 00:35:11,626 whether that was in six months or a year, 888 00:35:11,730 --> 00:35:15,458 Zach Horwitz wired the funds back to the victim investors. 889 00:35:15,561 --> 00:35:17,943 And then for the next note, the victim investors 890 00:35:18,046 --> 00:35:20,635 would wire the money back. 891 00:35:20,739 --> 00:35:22,706 - You lend the money for six months. 892 00:35:22,810 --> 00:35:26,434 You get the 35%, 40% return, whatever it is. 893 00:35:26,538 --> 00:35:28,678 And then boom, you're out. It's over. 894 00:35:28,781 --> 00:35:31,198 - So that was the thing. I mean, I did get money. 895 00:35:31,301 --> 00:35:33,234 And, you know, I guess I could have walked away. 896 00:35:33,338 --> 00:35:35,995 And--you know, but it seemed legit, right? 897 00:35:36,099 --> 00:35:38,584 - And the other thing that was always presented to us 898 00:35:38,688 --> 00:35:40,655 was that, these aren't gonna last forever. 899 00:35:40,759 --> 00:35:44,003 At some point, there will be other players in the game. 900 00:35:44,107 --> 00:35:47,455 And HBO or Netflix will realize 901 00:35:47,559 --> 00:35:49,492 that they could cut the middleman out. 902 00:35:49,595 --> 00:35:52,529 And Zach--Zach's whole business would be gone. 903 00:35:52,633 --> 00:35:56,878 And so that was another thing that got people to try and put 904 00:35:56,982 --> 00:36:00,330 as much money as they could in as quickly as they could, 905 00:36:00,434 --> 00:36:04,507 because they knew that this was a limited opportunity. 906 00:36:05,887 --> 00:36:09,028 - Around 2017, one of my neighbors down the street 907 00:36:09,132 --> 00:36:12,756 told me the story about these guys killing it in film. 908 00:36:12,860 --> 00:36:16,035 I had a production company called Forager Film. 909 00:36:16,139 --> 00:36:17,589 We made a lot of independent films 910 00:36:17,692 --> 00:36:21,351 starting in about 2013 and going forward. 911 00:36:22,214 --> 00:36:26,184 I've had a lot go to Sundance, Berlin, South by Southwest. 912 00:36:26,287 --> 00:36:27,633 I definitely don't have all the answers. 913 00:36:27,737 --> 00:36:29,911 So I always want to talk to people about that. 914 00:36:30,015 --> 00:36:34,157 So in '17, we had two movies going to Sundance. 915 00:36:34,261 --> 00:36:35,883 And I'm like, "Two movies at Sundance. 916 00:36:35,986 --> 00:36:37,298 I know this business." 917 00:36:37,402 --> 00:36:40,784 Prior to '17, we knew if we came in 918 00:36:40,888 --> 00:36:43,028 at a certain price point, there'd be buyers out there. 919 00:36:43,131 --> 00:36:45,548 And the buyers weren't there in '17. 920 00:36:45,651 --> 00:36:48,309 And so it was getting really hard for us to sell movies. 921 00:36:48,413 --> 00:36:50,794 Then I come back to the summer and he's saying, 922 00:36:50,898 --> 00:36:52,934 "Oh, these guys are killing it in film." 923 00:36:53,038 --> 00:36:54,764 He's like, "Oh, no, the guy would tell them 924 00:36:54,867 --> 00:36:56,248 "what Netflix would need. 925 00:36:56,352 --> 00:36:58,112 "And they'd go out and either make the movie 926 00:36:58,216 --> 00:37:00,010 "or find the movie, some foreign films. 927 00:37:00,114 --> 00:37:02,944 "And they would then turn around and sell to Netflix. 928 00:37:03,048 --> 00:37:06,154 "And they're returning some crazy amount of money 929 00:37:06,258 --> 00:37:07,673 all the time." 930 00:37:07,777 --> 00:37:09,951 And I'm going, wow, I'm having a real tough time 931 00:37:10,055 --> 00:37:13,231 selling movies to Netflix, Amazon, take your pick, 932 00:37:13,334 --> 00:37:14,853 because they want to make their own films. 933 00:37:14,956 --> 00:37:16,234 - Hmm. 934 00:37:16,337 --> 00:37:17,304 So that was the first time you kind of, like, 935 00:37:17,407 --> 00:37:18,684 "Wait a second, 936 00:37:18,788 --> 00:37:20,859 I know how this gets done, and that's not it"? 937 00:37:20,962 --> 00:37:22,067 - Exactly. 938 00:37:22,170 --> 00:37:23,931 The story they were telling, 939 00:37:24,034 --> 00:37:25,243 they were telling a lot of people. 940 00:37:25,346 --> 00:37:27,624 And they were hitting the North Shore, 941 00:37:27,728 --> 00:37:29,557 where there's a lot of wealth and that kind of thing. 942 00:37:29,661 --> 00:37:31,594 And my neighbor was really seriously 943 00:37:31,697 --> 00:37:33,251 looking into this at the time. 944 00:37:33,354 --> 00:37:34,355 He goes, "Well, I think I'm gonna do something." 945 00:37:34,459 --> 00:37:36,426 And I was like, "Okay." 946 00:37:36,530 --> 00:37:38,048 - So when you say, "do something," 947 00:37:38,152 --> 00:37:39,326 like, give them money? 948 00:37:39,429 --> 00:37:40,465 - Yeah, he was gonna give them money, 949 00:37:40,568 --> 00:37:42,398 about $50,000 at the time 950 00:37:42,501 --> 00:37:44,227 because the returns they were talking about 951 00:37:44,331 --> 00:37:45,849 were, like, close to 100%. 952 00:37:45,953 --> 00:37:48,162 You could do that once or twice in movies. 953 00:37:48,266 --> 00:37:49,991 But consistently? 954 00:37:50,095 --> 00:37:54,064 Why wouldn't Netflix figure this out and, like-- 955 00:37:54,168 --> 00:37:55,618 - Doesn't smell right. - Exactly. 956 00:37:55,721 --> 00:37:57,965 There was nothing good that was gonna come of it. 957 00:38:01,279 --> 00:38:03,246 - I would see a title. 958 00:38:03,350 --> 00:38:05,455 Some of them were something as ridiculous 959 00:38:05,559 --> 00:38:06,939 as "Satanic Panic." 960 00:38:07,043 --> 00:38:09,459 [metal music] 961 00:38:09,563 --> 00:38:11,185 It's not a film I was ever gonna watch. 962 00:38:11,289 --> 00:38:15,465 And it was most often in HBO Latin America 963 00:38:15,569 --> 00:38:18,226 or the Latin American markets for Netflix. 964 00:38:18,330 --> 00:38:21,920 So the library of films from which he pulled 965 00:38:22,023 --> 00:38:25,164 consisted mainly of titles we'd never hear of. 966 00:38:25,268 --> 00:38:28,029 And from what I understood, that made sense, right? 967 00:38:28,133 --> 00:38:30,100 Like, a movie that didn't cost a lot to make, 968 00:38:30,204 --> 00:38:33,103 the financiers would be happy to get 4 million bucks for it. 969 00:38:33,207 --> 00:38:34,277 And then we would pay for it, 970 00:38:34,381 --> 00:38:35,554 we would own the rights to that, 971 00:38:35,658 --> 00:38:36,969 and then the streaming company would give us 972 00:38:37,073 --> 00:38:38,454 this amount back. 973 00:38:38,557 --> 00:38:41,422 So I think that was one of the smart things he did, 974 00:38:41,526 --> 00:38:42,941 was to use obscure titles 975 00:38:43,044 --> 00:38:45,806 that we would never really know or even check on. 976 00:38:45,909 --> 00:38:47,601 [tense music] 977 00:38:47,704 --> 00:38:50,189 - Zach had a spider web of lies he would tell 978 00:38:50,293 --> 00:38:53,848 to help his image, his persona. 979 00:38:53,952 --> 00:38:56,610 He was always building these lies up, 980 00:38:56,713 --> 00:39:00,165 that he was this wildly successful investor, 981 00:39:00,268 --> 00:39:02,340 multiple business owner. 982 00:39:02,443 --> 00:39:04,549 Then from a friends standpoint, 983 00:39:04,652 --> 00:39:06,723 this person had grown to be, 984 00:39:06,827 --> 00:39:09,485 you know, my closest and best friend in LA. 985 00:39:09,588 --> 00:39:12,591 How do you get so close to somebody, 986 00:39:12,695 --> 00:39:16,215 look someone in the eye, and, you know, 987 00:39:16,319 --> 00:39:18,908 know that it's just not real? 988 00:39:19,011 --> 00:39:22,774 - It's too easy. It's just too easy. 989 00:39:22,877 --> 00:39:25,949 - Hollywood has an allure to criminals. 990 00:39:26,053 --> 00:39:28,918 They want to own homes in Hollywood Hills 991 00:39:29,021 --> 00:39:30,195 and in Brentwood. 992 00:39:30,298 --> 00:39:32,024 They want to drive expensive cars. 993 00:39:32,128 --> 00:39:36,374 And they want to be part of that entire scene. 994 00:39:36,477 --> 00:39:37,961 - I got way too drunk, stupidly hooked up 995 00:39:38,065 --> 00:39:40,826 with some girl I had no business being with. 996 00:39:40,930 --> 00:39:42,138 The end. 997 00:39:43,346 --> 00:39:45,555 - Zach wanted to be famous. 998 00:39:45,659 --> 00:39:49,525 But unfortunately for Zach, 999 00:39:49,628 --> 00:39:53,183 he's a pretty fucking terrible actor. 1000 00:39:53,287 --> 00:39:56,152 - [sputtering] 1001 00:39:58,844 --> 00:40:01,951 - Zach Horwitz, that was his greatest role. 1002 00:40:02,054 --> 00:40:06,058 The real Zach is closer to Zach Avery. 1003 00:40:06,162 --> 00:40:07,405 That's a cheater. 1004 00:40:07,508 --> 00:40:09,510 It's a liar. It's a psychopath. 1005 00:40:09,614 --> 00:40:11,857 That's the real Zach. 1006 00:40:11,961 --> 00:40:16,414 - Zach was great at being convincing to everyone, 1007 00:40:16,517 --> 00:40:18,139 except when he was on camera. 1008 00:40:20,176 --> 00:40:23,006 [gunshots] 1009 00:40:23,110 --> 00:40:24,905 - One of the mysteries was, 1010 00:40:25,008 --> 00:40:27,804 how is he getting these parts in the first place? 1011 00:40:27,908 --> 00:40:30,324 - Do I know you? 1012 00:40:30,428 --> 00:40:32,637 - I'm the guy. 1013 00:40:32,740 --> 00:40:35,778 - What else is coming down the pipe for you? 1014 00:40:36,744 --> 00:40:37,745 - We're gonna talk about 1015 00:40:37,849 --> 00:40:39,575 "The Last Moment of Clarity" today. 1016 00:40:39,678 --> 00:40:42,060 Brian Cox, how did he make you feel on the set? 1017 00:40:42,163 --> 00:40:43,441 - He was incredible. 1018 00:40:43,544 --> 00:40:44,994 He's just such a master at his craft. 1019 00:40:45,097 --> 00:40:46,236 - "Gateway." - Yeah. 1020 00:40:46,340 --> 00:40:48,238 - Olivia Munn. - Dahlia! 1021 00:40:48,342 --> 00:40:49,895 - Mike? Oh! 1022 00:40:49,999 --> 00:40:51,449 - This amazing talent, do you just feel like 1023 00:40:51,552 --> 00:40:52,450 it forces you to up your game immediately? 1024 00:40:52,553 --> 00:40:53,727 - It does. 1025 00:40:53,830 --> 00:40:55,660 It completely elevates every single thing 1026 00:40:55,763 --> 00:40:57,351 you're doing because you know 1027 00:40:57,455 --> 00:40:59,664 you can't just kind of phone it in. 1028 00:40:59,767 --> 00:41:03,599 - It started to look to me like maybe he was putting 1029 00:41:03,702 --> 00:41:07,706 money from the Ponzi scheme into the movies 1030 00:41:07,810 --> 00:41:10,882 to get the producers to cast him. 1031 00:41:10,985 --> 00:41:12,746 - When it comes to living in LA, 1032 00:41:12,849 --> 00:41:16,059 there's an undeniable pressure to be somebody. 1033 00:41:16,163 --> 00:41:19,373 And I think that pressure breaks people. 1034 00:41:19,477 --> 00:41:23,135 For Zach, it was very obvious that he didn't want to wait. 1035 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:27,070 - They're coming. 1036 00:41:27,174 --> 00:41:28,762 - Stay here. 1037 00:41:28,865 --> 00:41:30,936 - If you go on these auditions the normal way, 1038 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:33,629 I mean, you're gonna be going on auditions a long time, 1039 00:41:33,732 --> 00:41:35,423 you know, unless you just get lucky 1040 00:41:35,527 --> 00:41:37,322 and you're that one in a million. 1041 00:41:37,425 --> 00:41:38,875 I'll tell you what, any role he got, 1042 00:41:38,979 --> 00:41:42,292 it wasn't for his ability in the audition. 1043 00:41:42,396 --> 00:41:44,985 - "Oh, ho, ho, coffee." 1044 00:41:45,088 --> 00:41:46,469 Remember B Man? 1045 00:41:46,573 --> 00:41:48,540 That dude from first-year contracts class? 1046 00:41:48,644 --> 00:41:51,060 "Stomp on those bananas." 1047 00:41:52,924 --> 00:41:56,341 - As far as the ability to cut a check... 1048 00:41:56,444 --> 00:41:57,411 - Yeah. - Money talks. 1049 00:41:57,515 --> 00:41:59,206 - Well, yeah, definitely. 1050 00:41:59,309 --> 00:42:01,898 - Zach found that shortcut, that way around 1051 00:42:02,002 --> 00:42:03,624 the one in a million opportunity. 1052 00:42:03,728 --> 00:42:05,799 And he was buying his way into roles. 1053 00:42:05,902 --> 00:42:08,387 Every single role, whether it's major or minor, 1054 00:42:08,491 --> 00:42:11,563 Zach paid for using investor funds. 1055 00:42:11,667 --> 00:42:12,806 - You may have impressed someone. 1056 00:42:12,909 --> 00:42:14,428 You may have met someone that I'm like, 1057 00:42:14,532 --> 00:42:16,844 "He doesn't fit for this or I'm not gonna 1058 00:42:16,948 --> 00:42:19,260 bring him on to this project because X, Y, or Z." 1059 00:42:19,364 --> 00:42:20,745 - I want to show you something. 1060 00:42:20,848 --> 00:42:23,161 - "But I'm also doing something in a month 1061 00:42:23,264 --> 00:42:24,749 "or someone else is doing something that I know 1062 00:42:24,852 --> 00:42:26,854 that he may fit for." 1063 00:42:26,958 --> 00:42:29,236 - He began creating relationships 1064 00:42:29,339 --> 00:42:30,720 with these producers. 1065 00:42:30,824 --> 00:42:32,929 And producers would say, "Hey, well, I can get you, 1066 00:42:33,033 --> 00:42:35,380 you know, in this role if you can give me X amount." 1067 00:42:35,483 --> 00:42:37,002 And he would pay it freely. 1068 00:42:37,106 --> 00:42:42,007 We're talking $100,000, $200,000 for a small role. 1069 00:42:45,252 --> 00:42:47,841 - There were at least four movies that he was in 1070 00:42:47,944 --> 00:42:50,291 that the Securities and Exchange Commission 1071 00:42:50,395 --> 00:42:55,124 has confirmed that he used proceeds from the Ponzi scheme 1072 00:42:55,227 --> 00:42:58,852 to help finance the movies that he was cast in. 1073 00:42:58,955 --> 00:43:01,440 The exact amount is not exactly clear. 1074 00:43:01,544 --> 00:43:03,477 But it's somewhere in the $10 million, 1075 00:43:03,581 --> 00:43:05,617 $20 million range. 1076 00:43:05,721 --> 00:43:07,585 - I want to kind of get into "The White Crow," 1077 00:43:07,688 --> 00:43:09,379 directed by Ralph Fiennes-- 1078 00:43:09,483 --> 00:43:12,141 and I wish I knew him, and you do. 1079 00:43:12,244 --> 00:43:14,799 But what was it like to-- to work on that film? 1080 00:43:14,902 --> 00:43:16,973 - Yeah, it really was 1081 00:43:17,077 --> 00:43:18,388 an eye-opening experience for me. 1082 00:43:18,492 --> 00:43:19,631 Yeah. 1083 00:43:19,735 --> 00:43:21,357 My specific role, it's a guy named Michael. 1084 00:43:21,460 --> 00:43:23,946 He's an American journalist that essentially was getting 1085 00:43:24,049 --> 00:43:27,225 the American perspective on this kind of journey. 1086 00:43:28,778 --> 00:43:30,435 - Just having that little glimpse 1087 00:43:30,538 --> 00:43:32,748 of seeing his face on the big screen, 1088 00:43:32,851 --> 00:43:35,647 you know, it was all worth it for him. 1089 00:43:35,751 --> 00:43:37,615 - Every new project you go into, 1090 00:43:37,718 --> 00:43:40,100 you're nervous because as you grow also, 1091 00:43:40,203 --> 00:43:42,171 I start thinking, like, am I gonna be good in this? 1092 00:43:42,274 --> 00:43:43,482 Do I know what I'm doing? 1093 00:43:43,586 --> 00:43:44,760 You have that imposter syndrome, 1094 00:43:44,863 --> 00:43:46,244 where it's like, am I supposed to be here? 1095 00:43:46,347 --> 00:43:49,074 Are they gonna find out that I'm this fraud the whole time? 1096 00:43:49,178 --> 00:43:52,664 - He was flying private jets out to the sets. 1097 00:43:52,768 --> 00:43:55,529 One of the stories was about him going out to film 1098 00:43:55,633 --> 00:43:57,186 a movie in Kentucky. 1099 00:43:57,289 --> 00:43:59,809 He arrived there and I believe got paid 1100 00:43:59,913 --> 00:44:02,709 less than what he spent on his accommodations. 1101 00:44:02,812 --> 00:44:04,055 - That's what happened here. 1102 00:44:06,057 --> 00:44:10,268 - Selling these very unbelievable schemes, 1103 00:44:10,371 --> 00:44:12,201 I don't think it's that hard in Hollywood 1104 00:44:12,304 --> 00:44:15,549 because people deal with extraordinary stories 1105 00:44:15,653 --> 00:44:16,964 all the time. 1106 00:44:17,068 --> 00:44:19,380 And so there's a part of it that makes it very easy, 1107 00:44:19,484 --> 00:44:21,555 where people are very optimistic 1108 00:44:21,659 --> 00:44:23,281 and anything's possible. 1109 00:44:23,384 --> 00:44:24,869 [soft music] 1110 00:44:24,972 --> 00:44:26,042 - In many of these cases, 1111 00:44:26,146 --> 00:44:27,561 and in this case in particular, 1112 00:44:27,665 --> 00:44:30,944 you build your credibility through the people around you. 1113 00:44:31,047 --> 00:44:33,118 And then just over time, it gets larger. 1114 00:44:33,222 --> 00:44:35,258 And as it appears to work, you know, 1115 00:44:35,362 --> 00:44:37,502 more people, you know, believe in it 1116 00:44:37,605 --> 00:44:39,987 and then start investing in it. 1117 00:44:42,507 --> 00:44:44,854 - So I started to see Zach-- on his Instagram, 1118 00:44:44,958 --> 00:44:46,684 he's going to Berlin Film Festival 1119 00:44:46,787 --> 00:44:49,617 and South by Southwest and Cannes. 1120 00:44:49,721 --> 00:44:51,930 And I'm just like, you know, damn. 1121 00:44:53,035 --> 00:44:54,968 I'm just kind of working away, 1122 00:44:55,071 --> 00:44:57,625 you know, at my kind of original job in Orange County, 1123 00:44:57,729 --> 00:45:00,870 and I'm seeing Zach just-- just kind of living the dream. 1124 00:45:00,974 --> 00:45:04,115 You know, his cars improve and house improve. 1125 00:45:04,218 --> 00:45:05,806 And I just couldn't believe it, man. 1126 00:45:05,910 --> 00:45:08,982 It was cool to see. 1127 00:45:09,085 --> 00:45:11,881 - One of the important factors for investors 1128 00:45:11,985 --> 00:45:14,884 is to see that, hey, the guy has a track record. 1129 00:45:14,988 --> 00:45:17,093 And to prove that, look at where he lives. 1130 00:45:17,197 --> 00:45:18,819 Look at his family. Look at the cars. 1131 00:45:18,923 --> 00:45:20,338 Look at the watches. 1132 00:45:20,441 --> 00:45:21,960 I mean, who else has a watch subscription service? 1133 00:45:22,064 --> 00:45:23,513 Why not buy a damn watch? 1134 00:45:23,617 --> 00:45:25,067 Why not have a collection of watches? 1135 00:45:25,170 --> 00:45:28,484 He did all the things to have the appearance 1136 00:45:28,587 --> 00:45:33,006 that he was the most successful person he could be. 1137 00:45:33,109 --> 00:45:35,767 - In the era of social media, you can create yourself 1138 00:45:35,871 --> 00:45:38,770 to be whatever you want. 1139 00:45:38,874 --> 00:45:41,152 The character of Zach Avery kind of fit the mold 1140 00:45:41,255 --> 00:45:44,880 of that new kind of con artist, 1141 00:45:44,983 --> 00:45:47,710 where you can leverage technology 1142 00:45:47,814 --> 00:45:49,885 to be whoever you want in this world. 1143 00:45:49,988 --> 00:45:53,336 - I think the persona that Zach had 1144 00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:54,613 rather carefully fashioned 1145 00:45:54,717 --> 00:45:58,100 was important for him to attract money. 1146 00:45:58,203 --> 00:46:00,516 I think he needed people to see him that way. 1147 00:46:00,619 --> 00:46:02,552 And then, of course, it was also important to him 1148 00:46:02,656 --> 00:46:05,970 to present the husband he had promised his wife to be, 1149 00:46:06,073 --> 00:46:07,557 that he was gonna be successful, 1150 00:46:07,661 --> 00:46:08,869 that he was this great actor. 1151 00:46:08,973 --> 00:46:12,700 [melancholy music] 1152 00:46:12,804 --> 00:46:14,875 - Zach marries Mallory. 1153 00:46:14,979 --> 00:46:18,361 And they have two kids. 1154 00:46:18,465 --> 00:46:21,813 He's just living a lifestyle now that, honestly, 1155 00:46:21,917 --> 00:46:23,228 only some of us dream about. 1156 00:46:23,332 --> 00:46:26,335 - This is on my Insta story. Relax. Hold on. 1157 00:46:26,438 --> 00:46:30,166 - And you got to witness this at every major life event 1158 00:46:30,270 --> 00:46:31,719 that Zach and Mallory have. 1159 00:46:31,823 --> 00:46:33,238 [cheers and applause] 1160 00:46:33,342 --> 00:46:36,448 - For me, it's very clear that you are 1161 00:46:36,552 --> 00:46:39,141 an absolutely amazing mother. 1162 00:46:39,244 --> 00:46:40,349 - Whoo! 1163 00:46:40,452 --> 00:46:43,524 - You're an absolutely amazing wife, 1164 00:46:43,628 --> 00:46:45,975 amazing friend... - Yes. 1165 00:46:46,079 --> 00:46:47,597 - And an absolutely amazing person. 1166 00:46:47,701 --> 00:46:49,289 - Whoo! 1167 00:46:49,392 --> 00:46:52,464 - So I fell in love with you 14 days before you turned 20. 1168 00:46:52,568 --> 00:46:54,432 [laughter] 1169 00:46:54,535 --> 00:46:57,435 - Whoo! - Whoo! 1170 00:46:57,538 --> 00:47:01,163 - And now I've been with you 10 years and 14 days. 1171 00:47:01,266 --> 00:47:02,854 [laughter] 1172 00:47:02,958 --> 00:47:04,373 - Amazing. 1173 00:47:04,476 --> 00:47:06,237 - And I promise you, I'm gonna love you 1174 00:47:06,340 --> 00:47:08,066 every fucking day for the rest of my life. 1175 00:47:08,170 --> 00:47:12,381 [cheers and applause] - Yeah, buddy. 1176 00:47:12,484 --> 00:47:14,107 - Mallory got serenaded. 1177 00:47:14,210 --> 00:47:16,523 And it was just the most romantic 1178 00:47:16,626 --> 00:47:19,837 and probably intimate thing I've ever been to. 1179 00:47:19,940 --> 00:47:21,390 You know, and it honestly kind of made-- 1180 00:47:21,493 --> 00:47:23,081 made all of us husbands and boyfriends 1181 00:47:23,185 --> 00:47:24,565 kind of look bad because, you know, 1182 00:47:24,669 --> 00:47:26,602 Zach put on quite the show. 1183 00:47:26,705 --> 00:47:31,331 And that was, I think, the pinnacle of his success. 1184 00:47:31,434 --> 00:47:35,024 The closer you were to him, the more you loved Zach, 1185 00:47:35,128 --> 00:47:39,201 the more he took advantage of you. 1186 00:47:39,304 --> 00:47:41,893 - Do you think you could love another woman? 1187 00:47:41,997 --> 00:47:43,515 - No, not if I have you. 1188 00:47:43,619 --> 00:47:45,897 You're one in million. 1189 00:47:50,488 --> 00:47:52,800 [soft dramatic music] 1190 00:47:52,904 --> 00:47:55,148 - As he was drawing in investors, 1191 00:47:55,251 --> 00:47:56,390 the money he would bring in 1192 00:47:56,494 --> 00:47:57,978 would pay back the earlier investors. 1193 00:47:58,082 --> 00:48:01,085 And you could reinvest or you could cash out. 1194 00:48:01,188 --> 00:48:03,742 But the returns were so great that people would reinvest. 1195 00:48:03,846 --> 00:48:06,780 - So you're constantly just giving more. 1196 00:48:06,884 --> 00:48:08,402 You're never actually making money. 1197 00:48:08,506 --> 00:48:11,405 You're just giving more and more and more. 1198 00:48:12,648 --> 00:48:14,892 - After the first year or so, 1199 00:48:14,995 --> 00:48:16,169 you know the payments are coming out. 1200 00:48:16,272 --> 00:48:17,687 They're coming out on time. 1201 00:48:17,791 --> 00:48:19,379 And everybody is being made whole 1202 00:48:19,482 --> 00:48:21,070 and getting all the payments that they were promised. 1203 00:48:21,174 --> 00:48:23,314 So we stopped really paying attention. 1204 00:48:23,417 --> 00:48:26,110 - And he never act like he needed the investment 1205 00:48:26,213 --> 00:48:28,595 or even wanted the investment. 1206 00:48:28,698 --> 00:48:29,907 He was always like, "Well, 1207 00:48:30,010 --> 00:48:31,598 I'll have to think about it," you know? 1208 00:48:31,701 --> 00:48:33,841 "Maybe. I don't know if I can. We'll see." 1209 00:48:33,945 --> 00:48:35,982 You know, if you know anything about sales, 1210 00:48:36,085 --> 00:48:37,880 you know "no's" the strongest word in sales. 1211 00:48:37,984 --> 00:48:41,988 He was just an absolute master manipulator. 1212 00:48:42,091 --> 00:48:43,299 - It seems oftentimes, 1213 00:48:43,403 --> 00:48:44,783 at least with the Ponzi schemes 1214 00:48:44,887 --> 00:48:46,475 and these high-yield investment frauds, 1215 00:48:46,578 --> 00:48:49,271 they don't really believe that what they did was wrong. 1216 00:48:49,374 --> 00:48:51,790 Some of them actually believe what they're doing is real, 1217 00:48:51,894 --> 00:48:54,517 even though everything isn't real. 1218 00:48:54,621 --> 00:48:58,418 To these individuals, the idea of itself being real 1219 00:48:58,521 --> 00:49:00,316 makes it real. 1220 00:49:00,903 --> 00:49:03,941 - But, of course, he's taking the money out for himself. 1221 00:49:04,044 --> 00:49:08,117 And this is all just a huge lie. 1222 00:49:11,327 --> 00:49:14,330 - The main reason Ponzi schemes fail is, 1223 00:49:14,434 --> 00:49:17,816 the person running the scheme is taking too much money out. 1224 00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:19,922 They will start purchasing luxury items. 1225 00:49:20,026 --> 00:49:22,166 They'll buy cars, homes. 1226 00:49:22,269 --> 00:49:23,477 They'll start developing 1227 00:49:23,581 --> 00:49:24,789 an entirely different lifestyle 1228 00:49:24,892 --> 00:49:26,239 that's very extravagant. 1229 00:49:26,342 --> 00:49:28,724 They don't have enough money coming in 1230 00:49:28,827 --> 00:49:31,554 to pay the Ponzi payment because they've taken it. 1231 00:49:36,387 --> 00:49:39,424 - So here's another quote from the blog. 1232 00:49:39,528 --> 00:49:42,876 "I was always obsessed with belief in a superior life 1233 00:49:42,980 --> 00:49:45,913 "that existed just beyond my grasp, 1234 00:49:46,017 --> 00:49:50,228 "a feeling that a better party was happening somewhere else. 1235 00:49:50,332 --> 00:49:51,850 "But every once in a while, however, 1236 00:49:51,954 --> 00:49:54,922 "this sensation was punctuated by a visceral electric 1237 00:49:55,026 --> 00:49:59,582 sense of presence, times where I truly felt like I belonged." 1238 00:50:02,654 --> 00:50:05,416 I am not sure how to feel about this, 1239 00:50:05,519 --> 00:50:07,038 because, you know, 1240 00:50:07,142 --> 00:50:09,351 this is what he's choosing to write about 1241 00:50:09,454 --> 00:50:13,769 while he's serving his 20-year sentence in federal prison. 1242 00:50:13,872 --> 00:50:14,977 First of all, I didn't even know 1243 00:50:15,081 --> 00:50:17,566 you could have a blog in prison. 1244 00:50:17,669 --> 00:50:22,950 This is the very little, subtle acknowledgment 1245 00:50:23,054 --> 00:50:24,780 of this scam that-- 1246 00:50:24,883 --> 00:50:27,472 the closest thing he gets to saying why he did it, 1247 00:50:27,576 --> 00:50:28,956 just because, you know, there were times 1248 00:50:29,060 --> 00:50:30,786 when he felt like he belonged. 1249 00:50:34,617 --> 00:50:36,274 [indistinct chatter] 1250 00:50:36,378 --> 00:50:37,931 - If not, that's fine. 1251 00:50:38,035 --> 00:50:40,175 And actually-- I'm not exactly sure. 1252 00:50:40,278 --> 00:50:42,660 - Should I just look in the lens? 1253 00:50:42,763 --> 00:50:44,282 - Hmm. 1254 00:50:44,386 --> 00:50:46,871 - I think there's something especially sick about somebody 1255 00:50:46,974 --> 00:50:48,942 who could not only take advantage 1256 00:50:49,046 --> 00:50:53,395 of their friends and family, but use them as bait in a way. 1257 00:50:53,498 --> 00:50:56,432 - I don't know, like, the psychology of this human 1258 00:50:56,536 --> 00:50:58,227 is fascinating. 1259 00:50:58,331 --> 00:51:02,576 - It's strange and curious how somebody could have 1260 00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:04,337 that much confidence 1261 00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:06,822 and that little of a conscience. 1262 00:51:06,925 --> 00:51:10,032 - I had some family members lose their pensions 1263 00:51:10,136 --> 00:51:13,035 in the Bernie Madoff Ponzi scheme, 1264 00:51:13,139 --> 00:51:14,554 which I'm sure we all remember. 1265 00:51:14,657 --> 00:51:19,179 And I'm really curious about the type of person 1266 00:51:19,283 --> 00:51:21,388 that could do that, like, the egos involved 1267 00:51:21,492 --> 00:51:23,942 because I witnessed the damage, 1268 00:51:24,046 --> 00:51:27,153 psychological and financial, from the victims' side. 1269 00:51:27,256 --> 00:51:30,397 [somber music] 1270 00:51:30,501 --> 00:51:34,677 โ™ช 1271 00:51:34,781 --> 00:51:36,714 - And come visit us in Las Vegas when we re-open. 1272 00:51:36,817 --> 00:51:40,373 We'd love to have you. - For sure. I'd love to come. 1273 00:51:40,476 --> 00:51:42,444 - In court, one of his victims did say 1274 00:51:42,547 --> 00:51:47,173 that he had spent a weekend with Zach in Las Vegas. 1275 00:51:48,277 --> 00:51:50,279 To take someone to Las Vegas 1276 00:51:50,383 --> 00:51:52,316 and hang out with them for a weekend-- 1277 00:51:52,419 --> 00:51:54,525 he's spending real face-to-face time 1278 00:51:54,628 --> 00:51:55,526 with these people, 1279 00:51:55,629 --> 00:51:58,736 knowing that he's taking their money 1280 00:51:58,839 --> 00:52:00,462 and never giving it back, 1281 00:52:00,565 --> 00:52:03,016 and these are their life savings. 1282 00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:07,848 That struck me as incredibly predatory. 1283 00:52:07,952 --> 00:52:10,886 He's really leaving these people destitute. 1284 00:52:10,989 --> 00:52:13,544 - Knowing that, you know, I'm not some hedge fund 1285 00:52:13,647 --> 00:52:14,993 or one of the big investors, I mean, 1286 00:52:15,097 --> 00:52:16,788 why did you need my money? 1287 00:52:16,892 --> 00:52:18,169 Tell me how I'm gonna, like, 1288 00:52:18,273 --> 00:52:19,412 pay the bills that I have to pay. 1289 00:52:19,515 --> 00:52:21,138 What am I gonna do with the money 1290 00:52:21,241 --> 00:52:22,967 that I was supposed to have been saving up? 1291 00:52:23,070 --> 00:52:24,382 I've read the houses and the cars 1292 00:52:24,486 --> 00:52:26,073 and the luxury watch service. 1293 00:52:26,177 --> 00:52:27,730 How did you sleep at night? 1294 00:52:27,834 --> 00:52:29,939 Did you wonder if the cops were gonna knock on the door? 1295 00:52:30,043 --> 00:52:32,149 Or did you even think about that 1296 00:52:32,252 --> 00:52:35,152 when you were going through all this? 1297 00:52:37,361 --> 00:52:39,535 - Lo and behold, how Zach operated 1298 00:52:39,639 --> 00:52:41,779 with the people closest to him, 1299 00:52:41,882 --> 00:52:45,438 he didn't want anybody being friends with anybody. 1300 00:52:45,541 --> 00:52:48,234 Mallory and I, we were close at the beginning. 1301 00:52:48,337 --> 00:52:51,789 But as time went on, we were just a little distant. 1302 00:52:51,892 --> 00:52:54,032 I could tell there was just something off. 1303 00:52:54,136 --> 00:52:55,793 And I couldn't put my finger on it. 1304 00:52:55,896 --> 00:52:58,865 And come to find, 1305 00:52:58,968 --> 00:53:02,040 he was pinning everybody against each other, 1306 00:53:02,144 --> 00:53:04,491 especially everybody close in his life. 1307 00:53:04,595 --> 00:53:06,597 He didn't want me talking too much to Mallory. 1308 00:53:06,700 --> 00:53:08,806 He didn't want her talking to me either 1309 00:53:08,909 --> 00:53:10,048 because Zach knew 1310 00:53:10,152 --> 00:53:11,878 the more time I'd spend with Mallory, 1311 00:53:11,981 --> 00:53:14,156 I'd start asking more questions. 1312 00:53:14,260 --> 00:53:15,364 The more time I'd spend 1313 00:53:15,468 --> 00:53:17,021 with some of his other LA friends 1314 00:53:17,124 --> 00:53:19,023 and some of his acting friends, 1315 00:53:19,126 --> 00:53:21,612 and I'd bring up, you know, 1inMM, 1316 00:53:21,715 --> 00:53:23,614 And then they would ask questions. 1317 00:53:23,717 --> 00:53:28,274 So he kept everybody on their own individual island 1318 00:53:28,377 --> 00:53:31,415 while he masterfully manipulated them 1319 00:53:31,518 --> 00:53:33,279 and everyone around them. 1320 00:53:33,382 --> 00:53:36,558 We could all be just his own personal pawns 1321 00:53:36,661 --> 00:53:37,731 in his own game. 1322 00:53:40,424 --> 00:53:41,563 - At this point in time, 1323 00:53:41,666 --> 00:53:43,875 the investment had grown quite large. 1324 00:53:43,979 --> 00:53:46,223 The payment amounts that were being sent back and forth, 1325 00:53:46,326 --> 00:53:49,329 they were in the millions of dollars. 1326 00:53:49,433 --> 00:53:50,537 - I think there is 1327 00:53:50,641 --> 00:53:53,126 kind of a runaway freight train quality 1328 00:53:53,230 --> 00:53:56,578 to what wound up happening. 1329 00:53:56,681 --> 00:54:00,547 - Zach was able to create this aura around you of legitimacy 1330 00:54:00,651 --> 00:54:02,825 by associating with other people, 1331 00:54:02,929 --> 00:54:06,415 like Howard Schultz, who are legitimate. 1332 00:54:06,519 --> 00:54:09,867 - We were told that Howard Schultz had bankrolled 1333 00:54:09,970 --> 00:54:11,558 his initial investments. 1334 00:54:11,662 --> 00:54:14,630 And from there, the story went on 1335 00:54:14,734 --> 00:54:17,737 and became kind of this legend of Zach. 1336 00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:20,878 - That's something that's been missing from this story, 1337 00:54:20,981 --> 00:54:25,572 is how much this relationship Zach conveyed he had 1338 00:54:25,676 --> 00:54:29,542 with Howard Schultz and these very powerful people 1339 00:54:29,645 --> 00:54:32,890 was all a part of Zach's persona. 1340 00:54:32,993 --> 00:54:35,824 - I dream the kind of dreams that other people said 1341 00:54:35,927 --> 00:54:37,274 would not be possible. 1342 00:54:37,377 --> 00:54:38,516 - He'd have his phone out. 1343 00:54:38,620 --> 00:54:40,622 And his phone would literally buzz. 1344 00:54:40,725 --> 00:54:41,864 [phone buzzes] 1345 00:54:41,968 --> 00:54:44,764 And he'd look at it and say, "Oh, it's Howard again." 1346 00:54:44,867 --> 00:54:46,144 He would call him Howie. 1347 00:54:46,248 --> 00:54:47,629 Then he'd show the text message. 1348 00:54:47,732 --> 00:54:50,356 Like, how are you supposed to know this is fake, you know? 1349 00:54:50,459 --> 00:54:52,358 When you're seeing live emails on his computer 1350 00:54:52,461 --> 00:54:54,325 and you're shown text messages 1351 00:54:54,429 --> 00:54:57,535 with their names and-- and you're even receiving-- 1352 00:54:57,639 --> 00:55:01,298 supposedly receiving emails from Howard Schultz himself. 1353 00:55:01,401 --> 00:55:03,541 These characters in Zach's story 1354 00:55:03,645 --> 00:55:05,474 were so real to all of us. 1355 00:55:05,578 --> 00:55:08,201 It was uncanny how timely 1356 00:55:08,305 --> 00:55:11,446 these text messages came in as well. 1357 00:55:11,549 --> 00:55:13,275 - We do take it at face value. 1358 00:55:13,379 --> 00:55:15,657 I find it hard to, in my life, assume 1359 00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:17,383 that somebody is lying to me. 1360 00:55:17,486 --> 00:55:19,212 When I heard that Howard Schultz was involved, 1361 00:55:19,316 --> 00:55:20,731 it made sense to me in the sense 1362 00:55:20,834 --> 00:55:22,526 that this guy must have had some money, 1363 00:55:22,629 --> 00:55:25,322 seed money, to start somewhere along the line. 1364 00:55:25,425 --> 00:55:28,048 And that he had found himself in a relationship 1365 00:55:28,152 --> 00:55:29,947 with Howard Schultz, it's like, 1366 00:55:30,050 --> 00:55:33,122 seemed fortuitous for him, but it certainly could happen. 1367 00:55:33,226 --> 00:55:36,160 [dramatic music] 1368 00:55:36,263 --> 00:55:43,063 โ™ช 1369 00:55:44,927 --> 00:55:47,792 - Zach and I go out one night just to hang out and-- 1370 00:55:47,896 --> 00:55:49,449 at least what I thought was just some-- 1371 00:55:49,553 --> 00:55:51,900 some innocent fun, just to catch up. 1372 00:55:55,352 --> 00:55:56,525 [phone dings] 1373 00:55:56,629 --> 00:55:58,838 He takes out his phone and shows a live message 1374 00:55:58,941 --> 00:56:02,669 interaction with Ted Sarandos, the man in charge of Netflix. 1375 00:56:02,773 --> 00:56:04,913 Ted Sarandos and him are going back and forth. 1376 00:56:05,016 --> 00:56:08,606 And Ted asks Zach if he's ready to sell his library yet. 1377 00:56:08,710 --> 00:56:12,748 He's got an over 400, 500 film library, supposedly, 1378 00:56:12,852 --> 00:56:16,303 that Ted would acquire for anywhere from 400 1379 00:56:16,407 --> 00:56:18,375 to 700 grand apiece, 1380 00:56:18,478 --> 00:56:22,931 with 11, 12, 13 years left of film rights. 1381 00:56:23,034 --> 00:56:25,589 And Zach responds with, "It depends." 1382 00:56:25,692 --> 00:56:28,281 And then Ted responds with, "Depends on what?" 1383 00:56:28,385 --> 00:56:30,525 And Zach says, "The zeros." 1384 00:56:30,628 --> 00:56:33,873 I'm seeing this live on his phone. 1385 00:56:33,976 --> 00:56:36,531 Ted sends over an offer. 1386 00:56:38,429 --> 00:56:41,018 It's a massive offer. 1387 00:56:41,121 --> 00:56:44,435 Zach hits the floor, 1388 00:56:44,539 --> 00:56:48,232 falls down to his knees, and starts crying. 1389 00:56:48,335 --> 00:56:52,616 โ™ช 1390 00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:54,756 And he's saying, "Craig, we made it. 1391 00:56:54,859 --> 00:56:55,964 We did it." 1392 00:56:56,067 --> 00:56:57,448 I start crying. 1393 00:56:59,001 --> 00:57:03,523 This is just the greatest thing that's ever happened. 1394 00:57:03,627 --> 00:57:05,145 Zach's telling me how, 1395 00:57:05,249 --> 00:57:06,423 "You're gonna be taken care of. 1396 00:57:06,526 --> 00:57:08,286 Gonna get a portion of the sale." 1397 00:57:08,390 --> 00:57:11,773 And--and I'm just through the moon. 1398 00:57:11,876 --> 00:57:14,292 You know, I run home and, you know, tell my girlfriend. 1399 00:57:14,396 --> 00:57:16,536 And we're just so excited. 1400 00:57:18,331 --> 00:57:20,713 He's got me tuned up. 1401 00:57:20,816 --> 00:57:24,958 I am all in on 1inMM Capital. 1402 00:57:26,857 --> 00:57:28,721 - I've been looking through Mallory's divorce filing 1403 00:57:28,824 --> 00:57:31,309 and I actually found the answer 1404 00:57:31,413 --> 00:57:32,897 to a huge question in this case. 1405 00:57:33,001 --> 00:57:35,624 So here it says, "There have been countless text messages 1406 00:57:35,728 --> 00:57:37,212 "and emails Zach would show me. 1407 00:57:37,315 --> 00:57:39,732 "Many times I would see him receive notifications 1408 00:57:39,835 --> 00:57:41,768 "while he would be sitting right next to me. 1409 00:57:41,872 --> 00:57:44,357 "Now I have learned that Zach was actually sending 1410 00:57:44,461 --> 00:57:45,979 "the fabricated messages to himself 1411 00:57:46,083 --> 00:57:48,154 "using an app to make it appear as though 1412 00:57:48,257 --> 00:57:50,259 "he was receiving communications 1413 00:57:50,363 --> 00:57:51,640 from third parties." 1414 00:57:51,744 --> 00:57:54,781 So check this out. 1415 00:57:54,885 --> 00:57:57,681 I put in my phone number. 1416 00:57:57,784 --> 00:57:59,890 I put in the message. 1417 00:57:59,993 --> 00:58:02,962 "Hey, Zach, ready to sell me your library?" 1418 00:58:03,065 --> 00:58:08,864 And then I can select today's date and the time. 1419 00:58:08,968 --> 00:58:10,279 [phone dings] 1420 00:58:10,383 --> 00:58:13,351 Oh, it's Ted Sarandos. 1421 00:58:13,455 --> 00:58:15,664 "Hey, Zach, ready to sell me your library?" 1422 00:58:15,768 --> 00:58:17,321 Then all I have to do, if I'm him, 1423 00:58:17,424 --> 00:58:20,117 is memorize my lines. 1424 00:58:20,220 --> 00:58:22,050 "That depends." 1425 00:58:22,153 --> 00:58:23,327 I send that back. 1426 00:58:23,430 --> 00:58:24,570 I already have another one coming in. 1427 00:58:24,673 --> 00:58:25,881 "Depends on what?" 1428 00:58:25,985 --> 00:58:28,021 "The zeros," and et cetera. 1429 00:58:30,058 --> 00:58:34,096 - To locate real people and create communications 1430 00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:37,237 with these people and then sending them to investors 1431 00:58:37,341 --> 00:58:39,481 and saying, "Look, I'm talking to these people," 1432 00:58:39,585 --> 00:58:41,828 when really you're not. 1433 00:58:41,932 --> 00:58:44,106 Zach Horwitz's ability to produce 1434 00:58:44,210 --> 00:58:47,213 documents that support that was unique. 1435 00:58:47,316 --> 00:58:51,528 - The amount of work involved in keeping track 1436 00:58:51,631 --> 00:58:55,048 of all of these different deals is unbelievable. 1437 00:58:55,152 --> 00:58:56,360 [phone dings] 1438 00:58:56,463 --> 00:58:58,707 He's got hundreds of millions of dollars on the table 1439 00:58:58,811 --> 00:59:00,675 that he's got to keep track of and make sure people are 1440 00:59:00,778 --> 00:59:03,091 getting repaid and bring in new money 1441 00:59:03,194 --> 00:59:05,783 to make sure it's possible to repay them. 1442 00:59:05,887 --> 00:59:09,822 It's just really, really elaborate. 1443 00:59:09,925 --> 00:59:12,238 You had to realize that at some point, 1444 00:59:12,341 --> 00:59:15,724 the whole thing was gonna collapse under its own weight. 1445 00:59:15,828 --> 00:59:17,105 - We'll see what happens. 1446 00:59:17,208 --> 00:59:18,382 You never know what tomorrow holds, obviously. 1447 00:59:18,485 --> 00:59:20,729 [laughs] - Yeah. 1448 00:59:20,833 --> 00:59:22,766 - Behind the scenes, things were beginning 1449 00:59:22,869 --> 00:59:25,872 to fall apart for Zach Horwitz and 1inMM Capital. 1450 00:59:27,978 --> 00:59:30,981 - When we first stopped getting payments, 1451 00:59:31,084 --> 00:59:33,880 my wife's first reaction was, "What's going on? 1452 00:59:33,984 --> 00:59:36,158 There's some kind of scam happening." 1453 00:59:36,262 --> 00:59:37,643 She had, just prior to that, 1454 00:59:37,746 --> 00:59:39,852 wanted to pull all the money out. 1455 00:59:39,955 --> 00:59:42,302 We were assured everything was fine. 1456 00:59:42,406 --> 00:59:44,615 There's a little bit of panic that sets in. 1457 00:59:44,719 --> 00:59:46,755 [tense music] 1458 00:59:46,859 --> 00:59:49,171 - So there are really two parts to this fraud. 1459 00:59:49,275 --> 00:59:52,381 The first part was the actual fraud itself, the agreements, 1460 00:59:52,485 --> 00:59:54,314 getting the investors to invest. 1461 00:59:54,418 --> 00:59:57,559 Then at the end of 2019 when the payments stopped, 1462 00:59:57,663 --> 00:59:59,043 what could be determined was, 1463 00:59:59,147 --> 01:00:01,183 wasn't getting enough new investor money 1464 01:00:01,287 --> 01:00:03,392 to repay existing investors. 1465 01:00:03,496 --> 01:00:07,500 And that's why the investment collapsed at that point. 1466 01:00:07,604 --> 01:00:10,676 This is where part two of the fraud starts. 1467 01:00:11,918 --> 01:00:15,128 - Zach just sending text messages 1468 01:00:15,232 --> 01:00:19,477 and email communications on the daily. 1469 01:00:19,581 --> 01:00:21,756 - We had screenshots of text messages 1470 01:00:21,859 --> 01:00:22,929 that were supposed to have been 1471 01:00:23,033 --> 01:00:24,690 between him and HBO or Netflix, 1472 01:00:24,793 --> 01:00:27,693 like, why--why have things suddenly changed? 1473 01:00:27,796 --> 01:00:30,074 And more importantly, both these massive companies 1474 01:00:30,178 --> 01:00:31,558 had stopped paying, coincidentally, 1475 01:00:31,662 --> 01:00:33,526 at the same time. 1476 01:00:33,630 --> 01:00:35,217 - I mean, we think we're just in, 1477 01:00:35,321 --> 01:00:38,186 like, kind of this war to receive payment. 1478 01:00:38,289 --> 01:00:40,015 - And then once it starts falling apart, 1479 01:00:40,119 --> 01:00:44,848 he's now having to create all this false documentation, 1480 01:00:44,951 --> 01:00:48,852 emails from HBO and Netflix. 1481 01:00:48,955 --> 01:00:50,750 - It just became more and more convoluted for him. 1482 01:00:50,854 --> 01:00:52,165 And, of course, each time he lies, 1483 01:00:52,269 --> 01:00:54,789 he's got to back that up with more. 1484 01:00:54,892 --> 01:00:57,274 I would imagine that was his full-time job. 1485 01:00:57,377 --> 01:01:01,899 When he wasn't filming, he was forging documents. 1486 01:01:02,003 --> 01:01:04,246 - We call those lulling statements. 1487 01:01:04,350 --> 01:01:07,491 And what they're doing is buying themselves time, 1488 01:01:07,594 --> 01:01:09,148 either to bring in new investors, 1489 01:01:09,251 --> 01:01:12,013 get influx of money so they can pay the people, 1490 01:01:12,116 --> 01:01:14,774 or, if this is really the end, 1491 01:01:14,878 --> 01:01:16,431 this may be the time that they're 1492 01:01:16,534 --> 01:01:22,609 going to exit the Ponzi scheme and then make a run for it. 1493 01:01:23,231 --> 01:01:25,440 - You see it oftentimes in these Ponzi schemes. 1494 01:01:25,543 --> 01:01:29,651 But the extent to which he really went down that path 1495 01:01:29,755 --> 01:01:32,378 is like probably nothing I've seen before. 1496 01:01:32,481 --> 01:01:35,761 And that, in turn, caused more damage to investors 1497 01:01:35,864 --> 01:01:37,314 because now they believe that, 1498 01:01:37,417 --> 01:01:40,489 "Oh, he's actually working to recover our money." 1499 01:01:40,593 --> 01:01:41,698 And these--these are large companies. 1500 01:01:41,801 --> 01:01:43,147 These are legitimate companies. 1501 01:01:43,251 --> 01:01:45,184 And they're gonna make good on these payments. 1502 01:01:45,287 --> 01:01:48,049 So now these investors are now digging themselves 1503 01:01:48,152 --> 01:01:50,534 into further financial loss. 1504 01:01:50,637 --> 01:01:52,916 - He came after myself and my parents 1505 01:01:53,019 --> 01:01:56,298 for any last dime that he could squeeze out of us. 1506 01:01:56,402 --> 01:01:58,128 And we didn't think, in a million years, 1507 01:01:58,231 --> 01:02:01,303 that, you know, I'd never see that money again, 1508 01:02:01,407 --> 01:02:03,961 that my parents would never see their retirement again. 1509 01:02:05,894 --> 01:02:09,656 - Regarding Netflix, once the audit's done, 1510 01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:12,176 hoping to get a date when they're gonna pay. 1511 01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:16,422 That's kind of the latest and greatest. 1512 01:02:16,525 --> 01:02:18,976 And if Netflix pays, we get some breathing room 1513 01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:20,909 and get to survive. 1514 01:02:21,013 --> 01:02:23,912 - Scott Cohen was playing tennis at a club. 1515 01:02:24,016 --> 01:02:27,744 And he ended up playing with a man who was in charge 1516 01:02:27,847 --> 01:02:30,470 of Howard Schultz's finances. 1517 01:02:30,574 --> 01:02:32,990 Scott said to him, "Hey, it's sort of a small world. 1518 01:02:33,094 --> 01:02:35,752 I work with Zach Horwitz." 1519 01:02:35,855 --> 01:02:38,168 And the guy looks and says, "Who?" 1520 01:02:38,271 --> 01:02:40,032 He said, "Well, you know, Zach. 1521 01:02:40,135 --> 01:02:42,379 "Sometimes Zach Avery. But he's--he's an actor. 1522 01:02:42,482 --> 01:02:46,072 He does all the film finance deals with Howard." 1523 01:02:46,176 --> 01:02:49,006 And he looked at him and said, "I don't know who that is. 1524 01:02:49,110 --> 01:02:51,250 Never heard of him." 1525 01:02:51,353 --> 01:02:52,907 He didn't tell me that 1526 01:02:53,010 --> 01:02:55,806 until everything began to fall apart. 1527 01:02:55,910 --> 01:02:57,394 He just kind of kept it to himself. 1528 01:02:57,497 --> 01:03:01,191 I think he started to realize that things weren't as rosy 1529 01:03:01,294 --> 01:03:03,434 as he was trying to make them out to be. 1530 01:03:05,885 --> 01:03:08,025 - Clearly, you can see everybody is motivated 1531 01:03:08,129 --> 01:03:09,855 and pushing, other than the fucking people 1532 01:03:09,958 --> 01:03:11,132 that owe us the money, 1533 01:03:11,235 --> 01:03:13,720 which is just a fucking disgrace. 1534 01:03:13,824 --> 01:03:15,550 - He hired counsels to represent him 1535 01:03:15,653 --> 01:03:17,379 in fake litigation. 1536 01:03:17,483 --> 01:03:19,899 - Another reason why we all felt this was legitimate-- 1537 01:03:20,003 --> 01:03:21,763 his lawyers, from a very big law firm, 1538 01:03:21,867 --> 01:03:24,007 reached out and said things like, 1539 01:03:24,110 --> 01:03:27,389 they want nobody to try and contact HBO or Netflix 1540 01:03:27,493 --> 01:03:30,289 because that would jeopardize the relationship 1541 01:03:30,392 --> 01:03:32,981 that Zach had cultivated over these number of years. 1542 01:03:33,085 --> 01:03:36,605 And so we were instructed basically not to do so. 1543 01:03:36,709 --> 01:03:37,779 - So I go to Zach. 1544 01:03:37,883 --> 01:03:39,056 And I'm like, "Zach, you know, hey, 1545 01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:40,471 "you know, we got our house here 1546 01:03:40,575 --> 01:03:42,819 that we're gonna lose if I don't get my money back." 1547 01:03:42,922 --> 01:03:43,889 He's like, "Oh, man, I'm sorry. 1548 01:03:43,992 --> 01:03:45,269 "You know, it should be paid. 1549 01:03:45,373 --> 01:03:46,995 It's gonna be paid any time. Here, look." 1550 01:03:47,099 --> 01:03:49,239 And then he'd forward emails and forward communication 1551 01:03:49,342 --> 01:03:50,930 or show on his phone that, you know, 1552 01:03:51,034 --> 01:03:52,069 things were gonna be paid. 1553 01:03:52,173 --> 01:03:54,278 So if there was any a time 1554 01:03:54,382 --> 01:03:58,973 where Zach could have just maybe looked out 1555 01:03:59,076 --> 01:04:03,529 for myself, my family, my fiancรฉ, 1556 01:04:03,632 --> 01:04:05,462 that would have been it. 1557 01:04:05,565 --> 01:04:10,018 He had no financial gain by letting us lose our home 1558 01:04:10,122 --> 01:04:12,124 and keep putting money out to this home. 1559 01:04:12,227 --> 01:04:14,264 He could have just said, you know, "Hey, Craig, 1560 01:04:14,367 --> 01:04:15,990 "there's gonna be other houses. 1561 01:04:16,093 --> 01:04:17,543 "You know, I would just wait for this HBO stuff 1562 01:04:17,646 --> 01:04:19,027 to get cleared up." 1563 01:04:19,131 --> 01:04:20,891 Then I would have been begrudgingly like, "Oh, fine. 1564 01:04:20,995 --> 01:04:21,961 "You know, we just lost our house, 1565 01:04:22,065 --> 01:04:23,273 but we'll get another one." 1566 01:04:23,376 --> 01:04:25,965 But that just shows me that Zach 1567 01:04:26,069 --> 01:04:29,969 is just absolutely soulless. 1568 01:04:34,629 --> 01:04:36,355 Two weeks go by. 1569 01:04:36,458 --> 01:04:38,978 And we finally think we're coming to agreement now 1570 01:04:39,082 --> 01:04:41,705 with WarnerMedia, you know, the owner, 1571 01:04:41,808 --> 01:04:43,810 the parent company of HBO. 1572 01:04:43,914 --> 01:04:45,502 And then, of course, COVID hits. 1573 01:04:45,605 --> 01:04:47,780 - The entertainment industry in California has been 1574 01:04:47,884 --> 01:04:50,024 decimated by COVID-19. 1575 01:04:50,127 --> 01:04:51,508 - Netflix shutting down production 1576 01:04:51,611 --> 01:04:54,994 on all of its scripted television and film projects. 1577 01:04:55,098 --> 01:04:56,064 - You know, now we're into, you know, 1578 01:04:56,168 --> 01:04:57,410 May and June and July. 1579 01:04:57,514 --> 01:04:59,999 And what a perfect built-in excuse 1580 01:05:00,103 --> 01:05:02,381 for Zach to play off of. 1581 01:05:02,484 --> 01:05:05,211 - The individuals perpetrating the frauds often use 1582 01:05:05,315 --> 01:05:09,146 current events as reasons for why the investment 1583 01:05:09,250 --> 01:05:10,665 isn't working anymore. 1584 01:05:10,768 --> 01:05:13,323 - Everything was going fine, except that the attorney 1585 01:05:13,426 --> 01:05:16,050 for Netflix just got COVID, right? 1586 01:05:16,153 --> 01:05:18,362 And then I said, "I mean, this is strange 1587 01:05:18,466 --> 01:05:21,400 because Netflix has more than one attorney." 1588 01:05:21,503 --> 01:05:24,403 But, of course, each time any investor brought up 1589 01:05:24,506 --> 01:05:29,166 any concerns, they were met with explanations and answers 1590 01:05:29,270 --> 01:05:30,961 that were meant to satiate us. 1591 01:05:31,065 --> 01:05:33,584 And for a period of time, it did. 1592 01:05:33,688 --> 01:05:36,933 - And it was just a nightmarish year of COVID, 1593 01:05:37,036 --> 01:05:38,831 first and foremost, and then, 1594 01:05:38,935 --> 01:05:40,729 you know, dealing with this disaster 1595 01:05:40,833 --> 01:05:41,938 of not having any funds. 1596 01:05:42,041 --> 01:05:43,422 You know, he cleaned us out. 1597 01:05:43,525 --> 01:05:47,115 He cleaned myself, my family, and closest friends out. 1598 01:05:47,219 --> 01:05:49,014 - If you look back at some of the texts 1599 01:05:49,117 --> 01:05:51,085 that we're getting during the time 1600 01:05:51,188 --> 01:05:54,847 that we had ceased being paid, 1601 01:05:54,951 --> 01:05:57,298 there was just a sort of a "bro" element. 1602 01:05:57,401 --> 01:05:59,369 I don't know if there's a better way to put it. 1603 01:05:59,472 --> 01:06:03,511 Here we have a member of JJMT saying, 1604 01:06:03,614 --> 01:06:05,582 "This year fucking sucked. 1605 01:06:05,685 --> 01:06:08,688 "But hoping for a quick blastoff of positivity 1606 01:06:08,792 --> 01:06:10,414 starting next week, boys." 1607 01:06:10,518 --> 01:06:15,799 Then Zach responds, "100, double exclamation point. 1608 01:06:15,902 --> 01:06:18,457 "Fuck 2020 in all ways. 1609 01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:20,804 "2021, baby. 1610 01:06:20,907 --> 01:06:25,015 LFG." Let's fucking go. 1611 01:06:28,674 --> 01:06:32,436 - It takes a specific type of person, I think, 1612 01:06:32,540 --> 01:06:34,231 to do this. 1613 01:06:34,335 --> 01:06:37,579 I don't think most people can do it, 1614 01:06:37,683 --> 01:06:40,410 at least not on the level that we're talking about, 1615 01:06:40,513 --> 01:06:42,895 where you're talking about tens of millions of dollars 1616 01:06:42,999 --> 01:06:45,139 and you're going to destroy these people. 1617 01:06:45,242 --> 01:06:48,038 They're going to lose their, you know, life savings. 1618 01:06:48,142 --> 01:06:49,453 They're going to lose their homes. 1619 01:06:49,557 --> 01:06:52,491 That's a particular level of human callousness 1620 01:06:52,594 --> 01:06:55,597 that most people probably don't have. 1621 01:06:55,701 --> 01:06:58,221 - A lot of actors have a deep insecurity. 1622 01:06:58,324 --> 01:07:00,878 And it's one of the reasons why they want to be on film, 1623 01:07:00,982 --> 01:07:02,708 why they want to be someone different, 1624 01:07:02,811 --> 01:07:05,607 why they want to portray these other characters. 1625 01:07:05,711 --> 01:07:08,058 And I think that's part of what drove him to that. 1626 01:07:08,162 --> 01:07:09,404 But I think most importantly for him 1627 01:07:09,508 --> 01:07:11,268 was just this idea of fame. 1628 01:07:11,372 --> 01:07:14,478 And he was willing to do whatever it took to get there. 1629 01:07:18,344 --> 01:07:21,623 - You're gonna need something when you get there, no? 1630 01:07:21,727 --> 01:07:23,694 - Thank you. 1631 01:07:23,798 --> 01:07:28,389 - Very few Ponzi schemers actually have a exit strategy. 1632 01:07:28,492 --> 01:07:32,600 They sometimes flee and get out of the jurisdiction. 1633 01:07:32,703 --> 01:07:35,844 But it's hard to really disappear now. 1634 01:07:37,743 --> 01:07:40,090 - Can you show us how it all kind of breaks down? 1635 01:07:40,194 --> 01:07:42,230 - You've got several of these investors. 1636 01:07:42,334 --> 01:07:44,646 They're paying in. Okay? 1637 01:07:44,750 --> 01:07:46,372 These people are earning their returns. 1638 01:07:46,476 --> 01:07:48,374 And somebody in one of these tiers, 1639 01:07:48,478 --> 01:07:52,033 let's say it's this person, draws out. 1640 01:07:52,137 --> 01:07:54,380 And maybe he recruited. 1641 01:07:54,484 --> 01:07:56,279 Well, now, it's not enough to support it. 1642 01:07:56,382 --> 01:07:58,729 And the whole thing collapses. 1643 01:07:58,833 --> 01:08:01,215 So nothing's coming in. 1644 01:08:01,318 --> 01:08:04,114 And at the same time, the people 1645 01:08:04,218 --> 01:08:07,083 that got screwed down here, at the bottom, 1646 01:08:07,186 --> 01:08:10,120 are just going to the police. 1647 01:08:10,224 --> 01:08:12,916 - I don't know that there's a lot more time left 1648 01:08:13,019 --> 01:08:16,092 in the patience box with 1inMM. 1649 01:08:16,195 --> 01:08:19,198 This is a real fucking disaster. 1650 01:08:19,302 --> 01:08:22,615 - I think that Scott, at that time, 1651 01:08:22,719 --> 01:08:25,308 actually reached out to the FBI. 1652 01:08:26,930 --> 01:08:30,278 And that's when it kind of all came crumbling down. 1653 01:08:32,315 --> 01:08:33,971 - The case was initiated. 1654 01:08:34,075 --> 01:08:36,560 A victim attorney contacted the FBI office, 1655 01:08:36,664 --> 01:08:38,459 that they believe that Zach Horwitz had committed 1656 01:08:38,562 --> 01:08:41,600 a fraud against their clients. 1657 01:08:41,703 --> 01:08:44,706 - One of the first things we do in these fraud cases 1658 01:08:44,810 --> 01:08:46,363 is the financial analysis. 1659 01:08:46,467 --> 01:08:49,366 The FBI has created an entire cadre of forensic accountants 1660 01:08:49,470 --> 01:08:51,437 in addition to the special agents. 1661 01:08:51,541 --> 01:08:53,163 And so they get the bank accounts 1662 01:08:53,267 --> 01:08:55,372 and then trace where all the money went. 1663 01:08:55,476 --> 01:08:56,649 - The FBI was on the case. 1664 01:08:56,753 --> 01:08:58,686 The SEC was on the case. 1665 01:08:58,789 --> 01:09:00,101 - We know what's going on. 1666 01:09:00,205 --> 01:09:01,689 And then we interview the victims 1667 01:09:01,792 --> 01:09:04,554 to see what they thought they were investing in. 1668 01:09:04,657 --> 01:09:06,970 - Oftentimes, these investigations can last 1669 01:09:07,073 --> 01:09:10,491 6 months, 18 months, even years. 1670 01:09:10,594 --> 01:09:12,493 One of the things that enabled this investigation, 1671 01:09:12,596 --> 01:09:15,254 in particular, to move quickly was the documentation 1672 01:09:15,358 --> 01:09:17,291 that the victim investors had. 1673 01:09:17,394 --> 01:09:19,396 - One of the key elements of this is, 1674 01:09:19,500 --> 01:09:22,503 was there a scheme to defraud the victims? 1675 01:09:22,606 --> 01:09:24,884 The way we prove the scheme is showing what they were told 1676 01:09:24,988 --> 01:09:26,300 and what actually happened. 1677 01:09:26,403 --> 01:09:28,647 And that's how we identify the fraud. 1678 01:09:30,200 --> 01:09:31,443 - There was a lot of pressure 1679 01:09:31,546 --> 01:09:33,030 that Zach Horwitz is gonna flee. 1680 01:09:33,134 --> 01:09:34,963 That's often a concern of investors, 1681 01:09:35,067 --> 01:09:36,758 that this thing's falling apart now, 1682 01:09:36,862 --> 01:09:39,244 and he's gonna take all the money and run. 1683 01:09:39,347 --> 01:09:42,764 [suspenseful music] 1684 01:09:42,868 --> 01:09:44,663 [indistinct radio chatter] 1685 01:09:44,766 --> 01:09:47,424 [sirens wailing] 1686 01:09:47,528 --> 01:09:49,771 - The morning of the arrest, out of nowhere, 1687 01:09:49,875 --> 01:09:53,223 FBI agents are pounding on the door, 1688 01:09:53,327 --> 01:09:56,295 and there are agents all swarming into the yard, 1689 01:09:56,399 --> 01:09:58,159 demanding that they come downstairs. 1690 01:09:58,263 --> 01:09:59,436 It's just complete panic. 1691 01:09:59,540 --> 01:10:02,198 And suffice it to say, 1692 01:10:02,301 --> 01:10:04,269 Mallory was pretty freaked out. 1693 01:10:04,372 --> 01:10:07,030 - When Zach's wife came to the door, 1694 01:10:07,133 --> 01:10:08,825 she didn't know why we were there. 1695 01:10:08,928 --> 01:10:12,069 And then the next person to come down was Zach Horwitz. 1696 01:10:12,173 --> 01:10:14,106 I don't know if he had any inkling 1697 01:10:14,210 --> 01:10:16,004 that the FBI was investigating him. 1698 01:10:16,108 --> 01:10:18,800 I'm guessing it's probably at the time of the arrest. 1699 01:10:18,904 --> 01:10:20,181 Well, that reminds me of something else 1700 01:10:20,285 --> 01:10:21,389 I'll tell you about. 1701 01:10:21,493 --> 01:10:23,702 One of the unusual things about him was-- 1702 01:10:23,805 --> 01:10:26,360 is oftentimes, when we arrest these people, 1703 01:10:26,463 --> 01:10:28,983 they'll often say, like, "Oh, why are you here? 1704 01:10:29,086 --> 01:10:30,260 "This is all a misunderstanding. 1705 01:10:30,364 --> 01:10:31,261 It's a real business." 1706 01:10:31,365 --> 01:10:32,918 [distant sirens wailing] 1707 01:10:33,021 --> 01:10:34,160 Zach didn't say a word. 1708 01:10:34,264 --> 01:10:35,714 He was very calm. 1709 01:10:35,817 --> 01:10:37,060 He wasn't in shock. 1710 01:10:37,163 --> 01:10:38,613 So that was unusual. 1711 01:10:38,717 --> 01:10:40,132 I mean, when you arrest somebody, 1712 01:10:40,236 --> 01:10:42,203 usually they want to know what they're being arrested for. 1713 01:10:42,307 --> 01:10:45,517 But he never asked that question. 1714 01:10:45,620 --> 01:10:48,002 After Zach was arrested, we Mirandized him. 1715 01:10:48,105 --> 01:10:50,694 Myself and another agent attempted to interview Zach. 1716 01:10:50,798 --> 01:10:52,420 But he declined. 1717 01:10:52,524 --> 01:10:55,665 He never made any statements to law enforcement. 1718 01:10:58,771 --> 01:11:01,015 - When I first saw the "LA Times" article, 1719 01:11:01,118 --> 01:11:02,396 I was blown away. 1720 01:11:02,499 --> 01:11:04,363 I was just like, this-- this can't be true. 1721 01:11:04,467 --> 01:11:05,951 - I didn't believe it. 1722 01:11:06,054 --> 01:11:08,125 You know, I was almost mad. 1723 01:11:08,229 --> 01:11:09,679 Like, I didn't even know what to think 1724 01:11:09,782 --> 01:11:13,096 because there was just no way in my being-- 1725 01:11:13,199 --> 01:11:14,511 how is this even real? 1726 01:11:14,615 --> 01:11:16,410 That was my first reaction 1727 01:11:16,513 --> 01:11:18,239 until I just kind of sat there 1728 01:11:18,343 --> 01:11:20,276 and, you know, let it all digest. 1729 01:11:20,379 --> 01:11:22,899 And then that's when it sunk in 1730 01:11:23,002 --> 01:11:26,834 that one of my best friends has been conning myself, 1731 01:11:26,937 --> 01:11:29,733 my family, and some of my closest friends 1732 01:11:29,837 --> 01:11:32,184 for the last ten years, and that he stole 1733 01:11:32,288 --> 01:11:33,841 everything from us, 1734 01:11:33,944 --> 01:11:36,568 and that I might not ever see it again. 1735 01:11:36,671 --> 01:11:38,328 - The day they raided his house 1736 01:11:38,432 --> 01:11:41,227 was a good day, you know? 1737 01:11:41,331 --> 01:11:43,091 You finally see somebody 1738 01:11:43,195 --> 01:11:44,817 getting their comeuppance, right? 1739 01:11:44,921 --> 01:11:47,751 And more importantly for us, I guess it began the process 1740 01:11:47,855 --> 01:11:49,788 to be able to hold him accountable and-- 1741 01:11:49,891 --> 01:11:54,724 and perhaps in a very unlikely scenario, that-- 1742 01:11:54,827 --> 01:11:56,967 that some of the money could be recouped. 1743 01:12:00,695 --> 01:12:03,008 - It seems that a lot of the people 1744 01:12:03,111 --> 01:12:04,561 who invested in this 1745 01:12:04,665 --> 01:12:07,771 and who lost money were older people 1746 01:12:07,875 --> 01:12:10,947 or people in transitions, people going through divorces, 1747 01:12:11,050 --> 01:12:13,536 people who lost members of their family recently, 1748 01:12:13,639 --> 01:12:16,642 people who had sick members of their families. 1749 01:12:16,746 --> 01:12:18,748 And so a lot of these people, I think, 1750 01:12:18,851 --> 01:12:20,819 were vulnerable in that respect. 1751 01:12:20,922 --> 01:12:24,788 And I think he was able to really capitalize on that. 1752 01:12:27,239 --> 01:12:29,586 - When these cases come to trial, 1753 01:12:29,690 --> 01:12:32,727 what kind of jail time can you expect as a Ponzi schemer? 1754 01:12:32,831 --> 01:12:36,731 - I see that most of the cases end up at two to seven years. 1755 01:12:36,835 --> 01:12:39,355 But it's a complicated process. 1756 01:12:39,458 --> 01:12:40,908 Depending on the number of victims, 1757 01:12:41,011 --> 01:12:42,116 the number goes up. 1758 01:12:42,219 --> 01:12:45,361 Depending on the loss amount, the number goes up. 1759 01:12:45,464 --> 01:12:48,294 Your role in the crime, the number goes up. 1760 01:12:48,398 --> 01:12:52,264 Aggravating circumstances-- did you target elderly people? 1761 01:12:52,368 --> 01:12:54,784 Did you target groups that would be 1762 01:12:54,887 --> 01:12:56,510 particularly injured by your crime? 1763 01:12:56,613 --> 01:12:58,270 That causes the number to go up. 1764 01:12:58,374 --> 01:13:00,617 There's a cap, like, at 20 years. 1765 01:13:00,721 --> 01:13:03,206 But the judge can deviate 1766 01:13:03,309 --> 01:13:04,932 from those sentencing guidelines. 1767 01:13:08,245 --> 01:13:09,385 - I just went into the courthouse 1768 01:13:09,488 --> 01:13:10,903 and asked about the camera. 1769 01:13:11,007 --> 01:13:13,458 And they said no cameras in federal court, which is fine. 1770 01:13:13,561 --> 01:13:14,804 Kind of what I expected. 1771 01:13:17,841 --> 01:13:18,980 Check, check. 1772 01:13:19,084 --> 01:13:20,568 Sound good? 1773 01:13:20,672 --> 01:13:21,638 - Yeah, just hide the wire a little bit. 1774 01:13:21,742 --> 01:13:23,295 - Oh. 1775 01:13:23,399 --> 01:13:24,710 Better? - Yeah. 1776 01:13:24,814 --> 01:13:25,849 - Okay. 1777 01:13:25,953 --> 01:13:29,681 So here he is, coming in, right here. 1778 01:13:36,619 --> 01:13:38,517 - I have sat through a lot of statements to the court 1779 01:13:38,621 --> 01:13:41,002 by people who have been convicted of crimes. 1780 01:13:41,106 --> 01:13:45,282 And his lacked specificity in a way that struck me. 1781 01:13:45,386 --> 01:13:46,732 When I was writing my story 1782 01:13:46,836 --> 01:13:48,458 and I was trying to find quotes from it, 1783 01:13:48,562 --> 01:13:49,977 I actually just threw up my hands 1784 01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:51,703 because he really didn't say that much. 1785 01:13:51,806 --> 01:13:54,671 It was--it sounded very generic. 1786 01:13:54,775 --> 01:13:58,503 - We found out that Zach had sent a letter to the judge. 1787 01:13:58,606 --> 01:14:01,575 And in it, he had asked the judge 1788 01:14:01,678 --> 01:14:04,405 to be lenient upon him because, in fact, 1789 01:14:04,509 --> 01:14:06,407 it was the fault of the victims 1790 01:14:06,511 --> 01:14:10,031 for not seeing the red flags. 1791 01:14:10,135 --> 01:14:12,551 And it went over about as well as you can imagine. 1792 01:14:12,655 --> 01:14:15,105 The judge was not too pleased. 1793 01:14:15,209 --> 01:14:17,142 - I fucked up. 1794 01:14:17,245 --> 01:14:18,833 I'm a piece of shit. 1795 01:14:18,937 --> 01:14:21,733 - Actor Zachary Joseph Horwitz is agreeing to plead guilty 1796 01:14:21,836 --> 01:14:25,909 to a $650 million Ponzi scheme. 1797 01:14:26,013 --> 01:14:28,153 - When Zach agreed to plead guilty in October, 1798 01:14:28,256 --> 01:14:29,706 he appeared in court. 1799 01:14:29,810 --> 01:14:34,021 And he pled guilty to a single count of securities fraud. 1800 01:14:34,124 --> 01:14:36,817 And with that agreement, other charges, 1801 01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:39,889 with decades more in prison, were dropped. 1802 01:14:39,992 --> 01:14:42,339 - When Zach Horwitz was sentenced, 1803 01:14:42,443 --> 01:14:44,203 you know, he was sentenced to 20 years 1804 01:14:44,307 --> 01:14:47,310 and ordered to pay $230 million in restitution. 1805 01:14:47,413 --> 01:14:50,865 A 20-year sentence, you know, was-- 1806 01:14:50,969 --> 01:14:52,764 I was a little surprised by it. 1807 01:14:52,867 --> 01:14:55,076 I think in this case, I think it's just 1808 01:14:55,180 --> 01:14:56,664 the sheer numbers involved. 1809 01:14:56,768 --> 01:15:00,565 - It was really striking to hear the judge go over 1810 01:15:00,668 --> 01:15:04,051 all of the money that was spent during this scheme. 1811 01:15:04,154 --> 01:15:06,812 The $7 million on the American Express card. 1812 01:15:06,916 --> 01:15:11,403 I think it was $700,000 for interior design. 1813 01:15:11,507 --> 01:15:15,062 The Mercedes Benz of Beverly Hills. 1814 01:15:15,165 --> 01:15:17,720 Where is that money now? 1815 01:15:17,823 --> 01:15:19,549 - I think I know the answer to this, 1816 01:15:19,653 --> 01:15:20,792 and it's a bummer. 1817 01:15:20,895 --> 01:15:21,896 But what about the victims? 1818 01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:23,449 Do they ever get their money back? 1819 01:15:23,553 --> 01:15:25,659 - This is one of the toughest things I have to tell people, 1820 01:15:25,762 --> 01:15:27,626 because they all believe that the money is 1821 01:15:27,730 --> 01:15:29,455 squirreled away somewhere. 1822 01:15:29,559 --> 01:15:32,666 And it's not. 1823 01:15:32,769 --> 01:15:34,219 - All the money has been spent. 1824 01:15:34,322 --> 01:15:36,497 And that's why the actual investment collapses. 1825 01:15:36,601 --> 01:15:38,637 They spend the money, dinners, travel, 1826 01:15:38,741 --> 01:15:40,570 like, things that you can't recover. 1827 01:15:40,674 --> 01:15:43,090 - They frequently tell me that they know, 1828 01:15:43,193 --> 01:15:44,712 at some point, they're gonna get caught. 1829 01:15:44,816 --> 01:15:46,611 If you know that the end is coming, 1830 01:15:46,714 --> 01:15:47,991 just spend the money. 1831 01:15:48,095 --> 01:15:51,788 - He had his house and the contents of the house. 1832 01:15:51,892 --> 01:15:53,997 And that--really, that was about it. 1833 01:15:54,101 --> 01:15:55,792 You know, there was approximately a little over 1834 01:15:55,896 --> 01:15:59,727 $2 million that was recovered from the sale of the house. 1835 01:15:59,831 --> 01:16:01,418 - I don't see myself 1836 01:16:01,522 --> 01:16:03,559 as the victim who was impacted the most 1837 01:16:03,662 --> 01:16:04,732 because some of the stories I've heard 1838 01:16:04,836 --> 01:16:06,700 have been far more tragic than mine. 1839 01:16:06,803 --> 01:16:09,910 My wife and I lost $1.8 million in total. 1840 01:16:10,013 --> 01:16:12,291 It took us a long time to save that kind of money. 1841 01:16:12,395 --> 01:16:14,155 It's--again, it's relative. 1842 01:16:14,259 --> 01:16:18,228 To some person, 120,000 would be the equivalent of that. 1843 01:16:18,332 --> 01:16:20,092 And to some, it's 120 million. 1844 01:16:20,196 --> 01:16:23,268 For us, that 1.8 1845 01:16:23,371 --> 01:16:25,166 was everything that we had managed to accrue 1846 01:16:25,270 --> 01:16:27,306 over a long period of time. 1847 01:16:27,410 --> 01:16:29,895 And so that was just wiped 1848 01:16:29,999 --> 01:16:31,863 just so somebody could feel good about himself 1849 01:16:31,966 --> 01:16:33,485 and cast himself in a few movies 1850 01:16:33,589 --> 01:16:35,867 and party in Vegas a little bit. 1851 01:16:35,970 --> 01:16:38,628 And that's--that's tough to deal with. 1852 01:16:38,732 --> 01:16:41,907 - Speeding. 1853 01:16:42,011 --> 01:16:44,841 - It's bad regardless, strangers or people you know. 1854 01:16:44,945 --> 01:16:49,294 But to get family and friends involved, it's-- 1855 01:16:49,397 --> 01:16:50,882 that's a whole other level 1856 01:16:50,985 --> 01:16:52,642 of just blocking out right and wrong. 1857 01:16:52,746 --> 01:16:56,439 - You just want to believe the best of a person 1858 01:16:56,542 --> 01:16:59,097 and kind of block out everything else. 1859 01:16:59,200 --> 01:17:02,928 - I've personally known a lot of Zach Averys. 1860 01:17:03,032 --> 01:17:05,448 I just never thought that any one of them 1861 01:17:05,551 --> 01:17:09,486 would be smart enough or cold enough 1862 01:17:09,590 --> 01:17:11,074 to pull something like this off. 1863 01:17:11,178 --> 01:17:13,525 - It's so fascinating to me that something like this 1864 01:17:13,629 --> 01:17:18,495 could happen in our industry, like, right in my backyard. 1865 01:17:18,599 --> 01:17:23,846 - He did a lot of things that we, 1866 01:17:23,949 --> 01:17:26,296 on different levels, you know, would consider terrible 1867 01:17:26,400 --> 01:17:29,610 or immoral or dishonest. 1868 01:17:29,714 --> 01:17:31,232 - At the end of the day, it's sort of just 1869 01:17:31,336 --> 01:17:34,995 an unforgivable thing to lie that way, 1870 01:17:35,098 --> 01:17:37,687 to scheme that many people, and take that much money 1871 01:17:37,791 --> 01:17:38,895 all for yourself. 1872 01:17:38,999 --> 01:17:43,210 - The greed took him over completely. 1873 01:17:43,313 --> 01:17:46,592 - Really made me consider my past actions. 1874 01:17:46,696 --> 01:17:49,975 I think I'm making really good progress now. 1875 01:17:50,079 --> 01:17:53,841 - When I went to court to watch Zach be sentenced, 1876 01:17:53,945 --> 01:17:57,258 you know, there was a realization that all of us, 1877 01:17:57,362 --> 01:17:59,053 all of the victims, had been sentenced. 1878 01:17:59,157 --> 01:18:02,125 And for some, it was a life sentence, right? 1879 01:18:02,229 --> 01:18:06,820 We are now forced to pick up the pieces of the lives 1880 01:18:06,923 --> 01:18:08,787 that this guy has shattered. 1881 01:18:08,891 --> 01:18:11,479 But there are those that I know will never be able to, 1882 01:18:11,583 --> 01:18:13,171 not just because the amount of money, 1883 01:18:13,274 --> 01:18:15,276 but just because of the time it took to get there 1884 01:18:15,380 --> 01:18:18,038 and how much time they may have left. 1885 01:18:18,141 --> 01:18:21,351 - My mom's in the other room, just found out that she, 1886 01:18:21,455 --> 01:18:24,423 you know, has terminal cancer. 1887 01:18:24,527 --> 01:18:27,012 You know, my parents' retirement's in this fund. 1888 01:18:27,116 --> 01:18:30,809 How do you go in the hall and go look at your dad 1889 01:18:30,913 --> 01:18:35,262 and tell him that their money's gone, 1890 01:18:35,365 --> 01:18:37,989 this was all a lie? 1891 01:18:38,092 --> 01:18:39,887 Like, how do you have that conversation? 1892 01:18:39,991 --> 01:18:42,200 You know, imagine having that conversation. 1893 01:18:42,303 --> 01:18:44,443 It was one of the hardest conversations I've ever had. 1894 01:18:44,547 --> 01:18:46,618 You know, he was just-- he loved Zach as well. 1895 01:18:46,722 --> 01:18:50,104 And just the hurt, you know, in his eyes 1896 01:18:50,208 --> 01:18:54,281 and my mother's eyes, and I just-- 1897 01:18:54,384 --> 01:18:57,525 you know, it just wasn't-- 1898 01:18:57,629 --> 01:18:58,975 I just couldn't believe it, 1899 01:18:59,079 --> 01:19:00,597 that everything I thought was my life 1900 01:19:00,701 --> 01:19:03,083 and what was real just wasn't. 1901 01:19:03,186 --> 01:19:06,120 - How could somebody do that, just lie to all the people 1902 01:19:06,224 --> 01:19:10,711 that knew him, trusted him, and, like, just full-on lie? 1903 01:19:10,815 --> 01:19:12,748 How am I gonna face my kids? They're upstairs. 1904 01:19:12,851 --> 01:19:14,577 Like, how am I gonna face my wife? 1905 01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:17,614 This is gonna be a stain, like, forever in our marriage. 1906 01:19:17,718 --> 01:19:19,755 Like, how do we-- how do we get past that? 1907 01:19:19,858 --> 01:19:22,619 You know, and what happened in your past 1908 01:19:22,723 --> 01:19:24,173 that you would make this happen, 1909 01:19:24,276 --> 01:19:26,796 so I can avoid that with my kids 1910 01:19:26,900 --> 01:19:30,179 and make sure they don't turn out like you? 1911 01:19:30,282 --> 01:19:32,802 - At a sentencing, the defense is given an opportunity 1912 01:19:32,906 --> 01:19:34,217 to make a statement. 1913 01:19:34,321 --> 01:19:36,219 And during the whole period of his sentencing, 1914 01:19:36,323 --> 01:19:39,153 he was sitting at a table with his counsels 1915 01:19:39,257 --> 01:19:41,949 and, you know, was very just expressionless. 1916 01:19:42,053 --> 01:19:43,813 And then when he got up to make his statement, 1917 01:19:43,917 --> 01:19:46,540 he became animated and was very remorseful 1918 01:19:46,643 --> 01:19:48,853 about all the damage he had caused 1919 01:19:48,956 --> 01:19:50,855 and the irreparable financial loss 1920 01:19:50,958 --> 01:19:53,098 he had created to all the victims 1921 01:19:53,202 --> 01:19:55,825 and all the people that, you know, he had betrayed. 1922 01:19:55,929 --> 01:19:57,275 And then after he had made his statement, 1923 01:19:57,378 --> 01:20:00,036 he--he sat back down and went back 1924 01:20:00,140 --> 01:20:02,383 to, you know, that same poker face. 1925 01:20:02,487 --> 01:20:04,696 So maybe--maybe at that point in time, 1926 01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:08,113 we were seeing a little bit of Zach Avery in the courtroom. 1927 01:20:08,217 --> 01:20:10,944 - After the court case, I went to the bathroom. 1928 01:20:11,047 --> 01:20:16,328 And as I was walking out, the door opened. 1929 01:20:16,432 --> 01:20:20,505 And in walks Zach Avery, Zach Horwitz. 1930 01:20:20,608 --> 01:20:23,853 And it's such a strange feeling 1931 01:20:23,957 --> 01:20:26,235 because there's this guy that's ruined my life. 1932 01:20:26,338 --> 01:20:30,066 And he--he walked past me and he looked up, 1933 01:20:30,170 --> 01:20:32,689 and we kind of met eyes. 1934 01:20:32,793 --> 01:20:36,935 And he's like, "Hey, man, I'm, like-- 1935 01:20:37,039 --> 01:20:39,904 "I'm so, so sorry. 1936 01:20:40,007 --> 01:20:42,285 I'm so sorry." 1937 01:20:42,389 --> 01:20:45,564 And it's just-- well, I should hope so. 1938 01:20:45,668 --> 01:20:47,739 I mean, I'm sure you're more sorry you got caught 1939 01:20:47,843 --> 01:20:50,155 and you're spending 20 years in prison. 1940 01:20:50,259 --> 01:20:56,299 But I said, "Look, dude, what was your endgame?" 1941 01:20:56,403 --> 01:21:00,131 And he said, "I didn't have one." 1942 01:21:00,234 --> 01:21:03,272 It's almost worse to hear than he just messed up, right? 1943 01:21:03,375 --> 01:21:05,343 It's like, he never had a plan. 1944 01:21:05,446 --> 01:21:08,484 He just was taking people's money and spending. 1945 01:21:08,587 --> 01:21:11,452 - That he perpetrated this crime against people he knew, 1946 01:21:11,556 --> 01:21:14,041 people he didn't know, and then his own family, 1947 01:21:14,145 --> 01:21:15,871 who also is dealing with the wreckage 1948 01:21:15,974 --> 01:21:18,183 because he's got two young sons 1949 01:21:18,287 --> 01:21:20,151 and he's in prison for the next 20 years, 1950 01:21:20,254 --> 01:21:23,533 so by the time he gets out, they'll be adults. 1951 01:21:23,637 --> 01:21:27,330 - He's in jail now and is leaving his two kids behind. 1952 01:21:27,434 --> 01:21:31,576 That is his legacy that he's in prison, you know? 1953 01:21:31,679 --> 01:21:34,510 And he is a criminal. 1954 01:21:34,613 --> 01:21:38,100 And, you know, I wish he'd stay behind bars 1955 01:21:38,203 --> 01:21:39,964 the rest of his life. 1956 01:21:44,451 --> 01:21:48,248 - Okay, we're speeding. - Speeding. 1957 01:21:48,351 --> 01:21:50,975 - Okay. 1958 01:21:51,078 --> 01:21:53,529 - 59. Take one. Mark. 1959 01:21:55,393 --> 01:21:59,466 - I guess if I'm being honest, just the type of egos 1960 01:21:59,569 --> 01:22:01,813 that are involved in running schemes like this-- 1961 01:22:01,917 --> 01:22:04,471 what makes that guy tick, you know? 1962 01:22:04,574 --> 01:22:08,854 - I would love to actually meet him, honestly. 1963 01:22:08,958 --> 01:22:10,822 Like, I'm so curious. 1964 01:22:10,926 --> 01:22:12,065 - He's crazy. 1965 01:22:12,168 --> 01:22:13,894 I mean, what is wrong with this guy? 1966 01:22:13,998 --> 01:22:15,344 How can you be so smart 1967 01:22:15,447 --> 01:22:17,656 and so stupid at the same time? 1968 01:22:17,760 --> 01:22:19,348 - I mean, I'd watch this movie. 1969 01:22:19,451 --> 01:22:20,763 [laughs] 1970 01:22:20,866 --> 01:22:21,902 - I always try to do things the way 1971 01:22:22,006 --> 01:22:23,110 you're supposed to do them. 1972 01:22:23,214 --> 01:22:26,872 And whenever I see somebody getting away 1973 01:22:26,976 --> 01:22:30,566 with just breaking the rules, 1974 01:22:30,669 --> 01:22:32,464 it makes me really angry. 1975 01:22:32,568 --> 01:22:34,156 - I'm very interested in exploring 1976 01:22:34,259 --> 01:22:37,745 how someone's capable of carrying that much guilt 1977 01:22:37,849 --> 01:22:39,402 on their own shoulders. 1978 01:22:42,681 --> 01:22:45,408 - So you're gonna be looking straight down the barrel. 1979 01:22:45,512 --> 01:22:47,652 - When people read about financial crime, 1980 01:22:47,755 --> 01:22:50,689 they are engaging with it from an arm's length 1981 01:22:50,793 --> 01:22:54,555 because nobody wants to identify with the criminal 1982 01:22:54,659 --> 01:22:57,317 because they don't think they can lie at that level 1983 01:22:57,420 --> 01:23:01,010 or be cruel. 1984 01:23:01,114 --> 01:23:02,908 And we really don't have that much sympathy 1985 01:23:03,012 --> 01:23:05,290 for the victims either because nobody thinks of themselves 1986 01:23:05,394 --> 01:23:08,811 as being reckless or naive or stupid enough 1987 01:23:08,914 --> 01:23:11,987 to get scammed like that. 1988 01:23:12,090 --> 01:23:16,232 But I think what you're doing with the director 1989 01:23:16,336 --> 01:23:18,855 "character" in this movie is different 1990 01:23:18,959 --> 01:23:22,066 because it just shows you how easy it is 1991 01:23:22,169 --> 01:23:25,414 for anyone to get taken in. 1992 01:23:25,517 --> 01:23:27,174 I don't think of myself as a scammer. 1993 01:23:27,278 --> 01:23:29,418 But I'm an actor. 1994 01:23:29,521 --> 01:23:33,387 So to me, this is just another role. 1995 01:23:33,491 --> 01:23:35,976 - I'm auditioning today for the role of the director. 1996 01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:37,771 - The director. - The director. 1997 01:23:37,874 --> 01:23:39,462 - I'm Joslyn Jensen, 1998 01:23:39,566 --> 01:23:41,740 and I'm auditioning for the role of the director. 1999 01:23:41,844 --> 01:23:44,571 [dark music] 2000 01:23:44,674 --> 01:23:51,647 โ™ช 144625

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