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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:01,066 --> 00:00:03,600 -In the beginning was the music, music, music... 2 00:00:03,700 --> 00:00:05,233 ♪ Time, time, time 3 00:00:05,333 --> 00:00:08,900 -"Video jockey" was added to Webster's dictionary. 4 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:12,666 ♪ See what's become of me 5 00:00:12,766 --> 00:00:14,666 -A new concept is born. 6 00:00:14,766 --> 00:00:16,700 -♪ Well, I remember 7 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:19,000 -I want my MTV! 8 00:00:19,100 --> 00:00:20,733 [ The Bangles' "Hazy Shade of Winter" playing ] 9 00:00:20,833 --> 00:00:24,033 -We offer more than cars or grain or MTV. 10 00:00:24,133 --> 00:00:25,466 -Let's do it. 11 00:00:25,566 --> 00:00:31,300 -The rise of the music video was a gamechanger for pop music. 12 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,000 -♪ Time, time, time 13 00:00:34,100 --> 00:00:36,566 -Videos, I think, were cool. 14 00:00:36,666 --> 00:00:41,000 Songs became grander and bigger than they were because of MTV. 15 00:00:41,100 --> 00:00:43,866 -♪ Possibilities 16 00:00:43,966 --> 00:00:46,533 -The avalanche of MTV as the -- 17 00:00:46,633 --> 00:00:50,000 I mean, it grew so fast like a sort of a virus. 18 00:00:50,100 --> 00:00:51,533 -♪ And the sky 19 00:00:51,633 --> 00:00:54,866 ♪ Is a hazy shade of winter 20 00:00:54,966 --> 00:00:56,000 -It just swept everything aside. 21 00:00:56,100 --> 00:00:58,366 -Video music! 24 hours a day! 22 00:00:58,466 --> 00:01:00,633 -I mean, cable itself was exploding, 23 00:01:00,733 --> 00:01:02,233 [ Pop ] 24 00:01:02,333 --> 00:01:03,533 ...and we were exploding along with it. 25 00:01:03,633 --> 00:01:07,000 ♪ Hey, little sister, who's your Superman? ♪ 26 00:01:07,100 --> 00:01:10,733 ♪ Hey, little sister, who's the one you want? ♪ 27 00:01:10,833 --> 00:01:13,333 ♪ Hey, little sister, shotgun 28 00:01:13,433 --> 00:01:17,866 ♪ It's a nice day to start again ♪ 29 00:01:17,966 --> 00:01:20,233 -It became so huge and so powerful. 30 00:01:20,333 --> 00:01:21,766 It was sort of like, you get a video on MTV, 31 00:01:21,866 --> 00:01:24,466 boom, that's it for you, that's the magic ticket. 32 00:01:24,566 --> 00:01:27,066 -Suddenly, music had another dimension, 33 00:01:27,166 --> 00:01:30,733 and musicians had a new way to express themselves. 34 00:01:30,833 --> 00:01:32,566 ♪ 1984 35 00:01:32,666 --> 00:01:37,366 -It was really wonderful to use these visual images to sort of 36 00:01:37,466 --> 00:01:39,733 develop the meaning of the songs. 37 00:01:39,833 --> 00:01:41,433 -♪ 1984 -♪ Hey, yeah 38 00:01:41,533 --> 00:01:44,433 To convey some other depth in them -- 39 00:01:44,533 --> 00:01:46,600 that was really experimental at the time. 40 00:01:46,700 --> 00:01:48,366 [ Duran Duran's "Hungry Like the Wolf" playing ] 41 00:01:48,466 --> 00:01:50,300 -♪ In touch with the ground 42 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,866 ♪ I'm on the hunt, I'm after you ♪ 43 00:01:53,966 --> 00:01:55,133 -I think it was sort of 44 00:01:55,233 --> 00:01:56,933 a whole new level of modernism, you know? 45 00:01:57,033 --> 00:01:59,700 It was a new style, and who are these people? 46 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:01,500 These people came from nowhere. 47 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:03,333 Duran Duran -- who are they? 48 00:02:03,433 --> 00:02:07,200 -♪ I want my MTV 49 00:02:07,300 --> 00:02:09,566 -It was a cultural phenomenon that transformed 50 00:02:09,666 --> 00:02:11,066 the way we see music. 51 00:02:11,166 --> 00:02:14,000 -When I was growing up, music was what you heard first 52 00:02:14,100 --> 00:02:15,900 and you maybe saw later. 53 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,633 Today music is what they see first and maybe hear later. 54 00:02:19,733 --> 00:02:22,733 ♪ 55 00:02:25,033 --> 00:02:27,166 ♪ 56 00:02:27,266 --> 00:02:29,433 -Okay, then. Okay. 57 00:02:29,533 --> 00:02:33,466 -It'll be an F for you. 58 00:02:33,566 --> 00:02:34,833 -Here we go. 59 00:02:34,933 --> 00:02:37,233 Just one more time. 60 00:02:37,333 --> 00:02:39,433 -Right after I say, "Are you sure?" 61 00:02:39,533 --> 00:02:40,633 Da da da -- yeah. 62 00:02:40,733 --> 00:02:41,866 -Oh. 63 00:02:43,933 --> 00:02:46,133 -Hal, here's how I want to do it. Takes like this. 64 00:02:46,233 --> 00:02:48,266 -All right, it's fun time. Fun time. 65 00:02:48,366 --> 00:02:49,700 -Here we go. 66 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,800 -Oh, really? -17, take one. 67 00:02:53,900 --> 00:02:55,633 -This will be the keeper. -[Laughs] 68 00:02:55,733 --> 00:02:58,933 ♪ 69 00:03:05,300 --> 00:03:08,600 ♪ 70 00:03:09,033 --> 00:03:12,166 -♪ Video killed the radio star ♪ 71 00:03:12,266 --> 00:03:15,800 -♪ Pictures came and broke your heart ♪ 72 00:03:15,900 --> 00:03:18,600 -♪ Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh 73 00:03:18,700 --> 00:03:20,466 I had been exposed to music videos 74 00:03:20,566 --> 00:03:21,600 through my travels in Europe. 75 00:03:21,700 --> 00:03:23,733 I had seen them. I saw the power of them. 76 00:03:23,833 --> 00:03:25,533 -♪ Oh, oh 77 00:03:25,633 --> 00:03:27,233 -I loved this idea. 78 00:03:27,333 --> 00:03:29,133 So I was one of a team of six 79 00:03:29,233 --> 00:03:31,233 who sort of developed the concept of MTV. 80 00:03:31,333 --> 00:03:33,700 -And behold, a new concept is born. 81 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:35,733 -I had been living, uh, in Afghanistan and India 82 00:03:35,833 --> 00:03:37,000 for 8 years, came back to the States 83 00:03:37,100 --> 00:03:39,166 after my business kind of went kaput. 84 00:03:39,266 --> 00:03:40,433 So then I went to see the guy 85 00:03:40,533 --> 00:03:41,900 who was going to run the music channel. 86 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:43,233 It wasn't called MTV yet. 87 00:03:43,333 --> 00:03:44,433 He said, "we're looking to hire people 88 00:03:44,533 --> 00:03:45,866 who have no experience in television." 89 00:03:45,966 --> 00:03:47,133 -♪ Can't stop this 90 00:03:47,233 --> 00:03:49,900 -We don't want people from PBS or NBC or CBS. 91 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,966 -♪ Oh 92 00:03:53,066 --> 00:03:55,100 -I said, well, I have no experience in television. 93 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:56,766 I just came from a country that didn't even have television. 94 00:03:56,866 --> 00:03:58,833 -Television? -No! Check this out. 95 00:03:58,933 --> 00:04:00,000 -Lo and behold, they hired me. 96 00:04:00,100 --> 00:04:02,066 -Ladies and gentlemen, rock 'n' roll. 97 00:04:02,166 --> 00:04:04,700 -Technology was new, the whole concept was new, 98 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,500 that you go to this channel, and it was this world of music. 99 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:08,733 Starting right now, 100 00:04:08,833 --> 00:04:11,266 you'll never look at music the same way again. 101 00:04:11,366 --> 00:04:12,500 So everybody was young. 102 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:14,600 Nobody really knew what the hell they were doing. 103 00:04:14,700 --> 00:04:18,700 And musically, there was no videos. 104 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:20,933 [ Devo's "Whip It" playing ] 105 00:04:25,100 --> 00:04:26,633 -You'd see DEVO every hour 106 00:04:26,733 --> 00:04:28,600 'cause they they needed enough videos 107 00:04:28,700 --> 00:04:32,266 to fill in 24-hour, you know, programming. 108 00:04:32,366 --> 00:04:35,233 -♪ Crack that whip 109 00:04:35,333 --> 00:04:38,400 ♪ Give the past the slip 110 00:04:38,500 --> 00:04:41,266 ♪ Step on a crack 111 00:04:41,366 --> 00:04:43,900 ♪ Break your mama's back 112 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,366 -I think of the 160 videos that we had when we went on the air; 113 00:04:47,466 --> 00:04:49,700 something like 35 of them were Rod Stewart's. 114 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:51,400 ♪ 115 00:04:51,500 --> 00:04:56,900 -♪ Kick off your shoes and sit right down ♪ 116 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:02,366 ♪ Loosen up that pretty French gown ♪ 117 00:05:02,466 --> 00:05:07,600 ♪ Let me pour ya a good, long drink ♪ 118 00:05:07,700 --> 00:05:12,766 ♪ Ooh, baby, don't you hesitate 'cause ♪ 119 00:05:12,866 --> 00:05:18,633 ♪ Tonight's the night 120 00:05:18,733 --> 00:05:20,933 -He really used to bang out these cheap ones 121 00:05:21,033 --> 00:05:24,266 in front of the fireplace with the acoustic guitar, yeah. 122 00:05:24,366 --> 00:05:29,200 -♪ Ain't nobody gonna stop us now ♪ 123 00:05:29,300 --> 00:05:33,500 -It was just these crazy bands from England. 124 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:41,400 -♪ And I ran, I ran so far away ♪ 125 00:05:41,500 --> 00:05:44,733 -So by default, we wound up being really progressive 126 00:05:44,833 --> 00:05:46,533 and really sort of ahead of our time. 127 00:05:46,633 --> 00:05:47,966 -♪ I couldn't get away 128 00:05:48,066 --> 00:05:51,600 ♪ 129 00:05:51,700 --> 00:05:53,433 -There hadn't been that much on MTV, 130 00:05:53,533 --> 00:05:56,700 so whatever you put on MTV you were going to stylistically 131 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,366 start creating... 132 00:05:59,466 --> 00:06:01,466 what MTV could do. 133 00:06:01,566 --> 00:06:04,366 ♪ If I looked all over the world ♪ 134 00:06:04,466 --> 00:06:07,200 ♪ And there's every type of girl ♪ 135 00:06:07,300 --> 00:06:09,933 ♪ But your empty eyes seem to pass me by ♪ 136 00:06:10,033 --> 00:06:12,066 ♪ And leave me dancin' with myself ♪ 137 00:06:12,166 --> 00:06:14,900 Yeah, we wanted to push the boundaries 138 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,366 of what was on MTV. 139 00:06:17,466 --> 00:06:18,733 If you know how to shock, 140 00:06:18,833 --> 00:06:21,800 you know how to rock, you know, that's... [ Laughs ] 141 00:06:21,900 --> 00:06:23,233 ♪ Dancing with myself 142 00:06:23,333 --> 00:06:25,466 ♪ Oh, oh, dancing with myself ♪ 143 00:06:25,566 --> 00:06:27,766 ♪ Oh, oh, dancing with myself ♪ 144 00:06:27,866 --> 00:06:31,633 We had sort of hybrids of punk coming up in the '80s. 145 00:06:31,733 --> 00:06:34,333 Sort of a way forward that, say, may have kept 146 00:06:34,433 --> 00:06:35,700 the sort of energy of punk. 147 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:37,633 That's what I wanted to do anyway with my music. 148 00:06:37,733 --> 00:06:39,666 ♪ 149 00:06:39,766 --> 00:06:41,333 -It was very radical, that energy like, you know, 150 00:06:41,433 --> 00:06:43,566 you can just rip something up to shreds. 151 00:06:43,666 --> 00:06:47,366 It's that horrid we just -- we're just burning this up, 152 00:06:47,466 --> 00:06:50,766 and we're doing something that you've never seen it before. 153 00:06:50,866 --> 00:06:52,933 -♪ Dancing with myself 154 00:06:53,033 --> 00:06:55,533 -I never thought of myself as a punk, per se, 155 00:06:55,633 --> 00:06:58,700 but I was really, really influenced definitely by it. 156 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:00,500 It was like, I cut my hair, I dyed it. 157 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:02,566 It was a kind of statement to say that 158 00:07:02,666 --> 00:07:04,400 you're at odds with society. 159 00:07:04,500 --> 00:07:07,600 ♪ Sweet dreams are made of these ♪ 160 00:07:07,700 --> 00:07:11,466 ♪ Who am I to disagree? 161 00:07:11,566 --> 00:07:15,266 ♪ I travel the world and the seven seas ♪ 162 00:07:15,366 --> 00:07:17,666 ♪ Everybody's 163 00:07:17,766 --> 00:07:19,200 ♪ lookin' for something 164 00:07:19,300 --> 00:07:21,400 -"Sweet Dreams" -- it was totally surreal. 165 00:07:21,500 --> 00:07:25,066 We were using Buñuel and Salvador Dalí 166 00:07:25,166 --> 00:07:27,100 and, you know, French filmmakers, 167 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:29,433 Italian filmmakers, as references. 168 00:07:29,533 --> 00:07:33,800 It was like a little weird sort of surreal, uh, vignette. 169 00:07:33,900 --> 00:07:35,566 -♪ Movin' on -♪ Hold your head up 170 00:07:35,666 --> 00:07:37,566 -♪ Movin' on -♪ Keep your head up 171 00:07:37,666 --> 00:07:39,466 -♪ Movin' on -♪ Hold your head up 172 00:07:39,566 --> 00:07:41,366 -♪ Movin' on -♪ Keep your head up 173 00:07:41,466 --> 00:07:43,333 -♪ Movin' on -♪ Hold your head up 174 00:07:43,433 --> 00:07:45,166 -♪ Movin' on -♪ Keep your head up 175 00:07:45,266 --> 00:07:47,533 ♪ 176 00:07:47,633 --> 00:07:51,333 -It was very much using the visual tools to say something, 177 00:07:51,433 --> 00:07:53,566 but it wasn't a superficial statement. 178 00:07:53,666 --> 00:07:59,833 It was a really profound thing that was more than skin deep -- 179 00:07:59,933 --> 00:08:02,966 wearing a man's suit to look like a twin 180 00:08:03,066 --> 00:08:04,766 with the opposite gender. 181 00:08:04,866 --> 00:08:09,133 My cohort in Eurythmics, both of us, we were like equals. 182 00:08:09,233 --> 00:08:10,866 And looking back on it now as an older woman, 183 00:08:10,966 --> 00:08:12,500 I look at that, and I think 184 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:17,366 I was trying to find a way to be equal. 185 00:08:17,466 --> 00:08:19,800 -So it wasn't really anything like a pop video. 186 00:08:19,900 --> 00:08:21,733 But what happened, MTV had just started, 187 00:08:21,833 --> 00:08:25,000 and they were desperate to have stuff to play. 188 00:08:25,100 --> 00:08:26,200 And every time they showed it, 189 00:08:26,300 --> 00:08:28,966 everybody was going nuts about it. 190 00:08:29,066 --> 00:08:31,933 So this critical mass started to happen. 191 00:08:32,033 --> 00:08:35,766 -♪ Who am I to disagree 192 00:08:35,866 --> 00:08:39,299 -By the time Annie and I arrived in America to play a tour, 193 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,733 when we were in San Francisco, Annie and I got a call 194 00:08:42,833 --> 00:08:46,366 and we were told we were number one in America. 195 00:08:46,466 --> 00:08:48,533 So from being, you know, really experimental 196 00:08:48,633 --> 00:08:51,300 and seeing ourselves more as performance art, 197 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:53,066 it was like number one in America, 198 00:08:53,166 --> 00:08:56,400 cover ofRolling Stone, Annie on the cover ofNewsweek. 199 00:08:56,500 --> 00:08:57,933 And it was just bang, you know, 200 00:08:58,033 --> 00:09:01,433 all in about the space of four weeks. 201 00:09:01,533 --> 00:09:06,000 -I just remember the sensation of my world suddenly feeling 202 00:09:06,100 --> 00:09:10,033 like in these films when you see a very, very small 203 00:09:10,133 --> 00:09:13,200 cartoon person knocking at ahuge door, 204 00:09:13,300 --> 00:09:15,300 the Hall of the Mountain King or something. 205 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,100 And then, all of a sudden... [ Imitates deep creaking sound ] 206 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,966 You know, the door opens. 207 00:09:21,066 --> 00:09:22,766 And it's like... 208 00:09:22,866 --> 00:09:24,533 ♪ My mother told me good 209 00:09:24,633 --> 00:09:26,266 ♪ My mother told me strong 210 00:09:26,366 --> 00:09:30,133 ♪ She said, be true to yourself and you can't go wrong ♪ 211 00:09:30,233 --> 00:09:34,300 ♪ But there's just one thing that you must understand ♪ 212 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,066 ♪ You can fool with your brother ♪ 213 00:09:37,166 --> 00:09:40,566 ♪ But don't mess with a missionary man ♪ 214 00:09:40,666 --> 00:09:41,833 -♪ Oh 215 00:09:41,933 --> 00:09:44,766 -♪ Don't mess with a missionary man ♪ 216 00:09:44,866 --> 00:09:49,133 ♪ Don't mess with a missionary man ♪ 217 00:09:49,233 --> 00:09:52,266 ♪ Don't mess with a missionary man ♪ 218 00:09:52,366 --> 00:09:53,500 -♪ Oh oh oh oh -You couldn't come out 219 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,166 and just be a normal band playing guitars. 220 00:09:56,266 --> 00:09:59,833 We really went all the way out in experimenting. 221 00:09:59,933 --> 00:10:01,866 Nothing to do with pop music. 222 00:10:01,966 --> 00:10:05,400 ♪ Black-eyed looks from those Bible books ♪ 223 00:10:05,500 --> 00:10:09,100 ♪ He's a man with a mission, got a serious mind ♪ 224 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:11,566 I hear this word "image" and I used to hear this word "image," 225 00:10:11,666 --> 00:10:13,366 "your image, your image, your image." 226 00:10:13,466 --> 00:10:14,800 And it used to really bug me. 227 00:10:14,900 --> 00:10:17,900 It still does when I hear that -- "your image." 228 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,333 And I think why am I so bugged by this word, "image"? 229 00:10:21,433 --> 00:10:27,033 'Cause I said no, it's not my image. This is who I am. 230 00:10:27,133 --> 00:10:31,400 But at the same time, that wasn't exactly true. 231 00:10:31,500 --> 00:10:33,566 Because it was a presentation. 232 00:10:33,666 --> 00:10:38,800 ♪ Believe, believe, believe, believe, believe, believe ♪ 233 00:10:38,900 --> 00:10:41,533 -I like the idea that when you make a piece of music, 234 00:10:41,633 --> 00:10:45,266 you make a little play, a little piece of theater. 235 00:10:45,366 --> 00:10:47,133 And it isn't necessarily about you. 236 00:10:47,233 --> 00:10:48,366 There are characters in it. 237 00:10:48,466 --> 00:10:50,400 There's somebody singing who's probably using 238 00:10:50,500 --> 00:10:54,400 the first person singular, "I", but it doesn't mean it's me. 239 00:10:54,500 --> 00:10:56,200 You know Bowie is very good at this. 240 00:10:56,300 --> 00:10:59,633 He often populates his songs with characters 241 00:10:59,733 --> 00:11:02,133 who clearly aren't him. 242 00:11:02,233 --> 00:11:08,466 -♪ One flash of light but no smoking pistol ♪ 243 00:11:08,566 --> 00:11:10,900 ♪ I never done good things 244 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:12,433 I've never done good things. 245 00:11:12,533 --> 00:11:14,033 ♪ I never done bad things 246 00:11:14,133 --> 00:11:16,000 I've never done bad things. 247 00:11:16,100 --> 00:11:21,366 ♪ I never did anything out of the blue ♪ 248 00:11:21,466 --> 00:11:23,866 ♪ Whoa-oa-oa Whoa-oa-oa. 249 00:11:23,966 --> 00:11:27,466 ♪ Want an axe to break the ice 250 00:11:27,566 --> 00:11:31,400 ♪ Wanna come down right now 251 00:11:31,500 --> 00:11:35,166 ♪ Ashes to ashes, funk to funky ♪ 252 00:11:35,266 --> 00:11:38,900 ♪ We know Major Tom's a junkie ♪ 253 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,766 -One of the things that Bowie brought to the scene, 254 00:11:41,866 --> 00:11:44,533 as did so many of the other "art rock musicians" 255 00:11:44,633 --> 00:11:47,400 like a Brian Eno of Roxy Music, 256 00:11:47,500 --> 00:11:49,833 Freddie Mercury in the 1970s, 257 00:11:49,933 --> 00:11:53,266 they brought a prioritization of the visual into popular music. 258 00:11:53,366 --> 00:11:56,966 -♪ Jean genie lives on his back ♪ 259 00:11:57,066 --> 00:12:00,533 ♪ The Jean genie loves chimney stacks ♪ 260 00:12:00,633 --> 00:12:04,366 ♪ He's outrageous, he screams and he bawls ♪ 261 00:12:04,466 --> 00:12:07,533 ♪ The Jean genie, let yourself go ♪ 262 00:12:07,633 --> 00:12:10,566 -David Bowie radicalized masculinity in popular music. 263 00:12:10,666 --> 00:12:15,033 So he changed the way that we think about gender, uh, 264 00:12:15,133 --> 00:12:18,400 the possibilities for how men can stylistically 265 00:12:18,500 --> 00:12:20,066 express themselves in popular music. 266 00:12:20,166 --> 00:12:23,100 ♪ 267 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,300 -♪ He sits like a man but he smiles like a reptile ♪ 268 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:30,233 ♪ She love him, she love him, but just for a short while ♪ 269 00:12:30,333 --> 00:12:33,500 ♪ She'll scratch in the sand, won't let go his hand ♪ 270 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:37,600 ♪ He says he's a beautician and sells you nutrition ♪ 271 00:12:37,700 --> 00:12:42,000 ♪ And keeps all your dead hair for making up underwear ♪ 272 00:12:42,100 --> 00:12:45,766 ♪ Poor little Greenie 273 00:12:45,866 --> 00:12:47,133 ♪ Ooh-ooh-ooh 274 00:12:47,233 --> 00:12:50,600 -In every sense, David Bowie was the predecessor to so many 275 00:12:50,700 --> 00:12:53,233 of these artists on MTV. 276 00:12:53,333 --> 00:12:56,466 They learnt to be brave from him. 277 00:12:56,566 --> 00:13:00,233 They learnt to put across another persona. 278 00:13:00,333 --> 00:13:03,233 -♪ The Jean genie, let yourself go ♪ 279 00:13:03,333 --> 00:13:06,633 -That was Bowie, that was Presley, that was DEVO. 280 00:13:06,733 --> 00:13:07,933 They were very professional musicians 281 00:13:08,033 --> 00:13:10,066 that were putting on an image, 282 00:13:10,166 --> 00:13:12,766 which is what most of rock 'n' roll is. 283 00:13:12,866 --> 00:13:14,466 ♪ 284 00:13:14,566 --> 00:13:17,166 -At the end of the day, it's show business. 285 00:13:17,266 --> 00:13:19,533 Who are our favorite entertainers, ever? 286 00:13:19,633 --> 00:13:22,000 James Brown, Prince, David Bowie, 287 00:13:22,100 --> 00:13:26,666 because they embraced... the razzle dazzle. 288 00:13:26,766 --> 00:13:28,200 -To take the power of music and put it together 289 00:13:28,300 --> 00:13:31,133 with the power of television was a great combination. 290 00:13:31,233 --> 00:13:34,300 And it certainly showed its strength years before MTV 291 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:36,066 and in many, many ways. 292 00:13:36,166 --> 00:13:40,600 -♪ In the shadows let me come and sing to you ♪ 293 00:13:40,700 --> 00:13:45,000 ♪ Let me dream a song that I can dream to you ♪ 294 00:13:45,100 --> 00:13:47,000 MTV is a culmination of years 295 00:13:47,100 --> 00:13:49,866 and years and years of visual imagery. 296 00:13:49,966 --> 00:13:51,900 -♪ Let me... 297 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:53,133 -First it was film... 298 00:13:53,233 --> 00:13:55,566 -♪ Let me live my song 299 00:13:55,666 --> 00:13:56,866 -The musical, 300 00:13:56,966 --> 00:13:58,966 you know, even "the Wizard of Oz." 301 00:13:59,066 --> 00:14:01,233 -All right, Mr. Ritchie, how 'bout a downbeat 302 00:14:01,333 --> 00:14:02,933 for the baby-loving Supremes? 303 00:14:03,033 --> 00:14:05,133 -And then all of a sudden, music comes into the house, 304 00:14:05,233 --> 00:14:08,233 and you have the growth of the visual medium at home. 305 00:14:08,333 --> 00:14:11,500 ♪ 306 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,066 -♪ Baby, baby 307 00:14:14,166 --> 00:14:16,933 ♪ Baby, don't leave me 308 00:14:17,033 --> 00:14:20,333 ♪ Ooh, please, don't leave me 309 00:14:20,433 --> 00:14:23,200 ♪ All by myself 310 00:14:23,300 --> 00:14:25,333 -I would see Diana Ross and The Supremes 311 00:14:25,433 --> 00:14:27,900 in these beautiful, elegant shift dresses, 312 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,266 you know, with this kind of minimalistic moves 313 00:14:30,366 --> 00:14:34,333 that they all did in synchronistic unison, you know? 314 00:14:34,433 --> 00:14:35,966 And they had this deportment. 315 00:14:36,066 --> 00:14:39,333 But the reason why they learnt to do that was because somebody 316 00:14:39,433 --> 00:14:42,633 had the foresight to say now, you know, 317 00:14:42,733 --> 00:14:46,566 when you perform it has to be like this, and it worked. 318 00:14:46,666 --> 00:14:49,333 Whatever they represented, it had that inherent sort of 319 00:14:49,433 --> 00:14:54,066 dignity and beauty and elegance, and, boy, it was something else. 320 00:14:54,166 --> 00:14:55,700 ♪ 321 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,000 -♪ So helplessly -♪ Where did our love go? 322 00:14:59,100 --> 00:15:01,666 -♪ You now want to leave -♪ Baby, baby 323 00:15:01,766 --> 00:15:05,066 -♪ Ooh, you wanna leave me 324 00:15:05,166 --> 00:15:08,533 -Television for me was primordial. 325 00:15:08,633 --> 00:15:09,933 I had to have TV. 326 00:15:10,033 --> 00:15:13,566 So I grew up with Ed Sullivan. 327 00:15:13,666 --> 00:15:16,233 I grew up with the Grand Ole Opry. 328 00:15:16,333 --> 00:15:18,533 Anytime Elvis Presley would be on 329 00:15:18,633 --> 00:15:20,866 or James Brown would be on, we were there. 330 00:15:20,966 --> 00:15:22,900 It was like a neighborhood event. 331 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,966 People that didn't have TVs would come over to our house, 332 00:15:26,066 --> 00:15:28,466 and it became, like -- it would be like a party. 333 00:15:28,566 --> 00:15:30,233 -♪ We're going hopping 334 00:15:30,333 --> 00:15:33,933 -And then, of course, you had Dick Clark 335 00:15:34,033 --> 00:15:37,000 and "American Bandstand" out of Philadelphia. 336 00:15:37,100 --> 00:15:38,500 ♪ On the bandstand 337 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:40,733 ♪ Bandstand 338 00:15:40,833 --> 00:15:45,233 -Dick Clark used to have a show on on 7:30 on Saturday nights 339 00:15:45,333 --> 00:15:47,600 and it was brought to you by Beech-Nut Spearmint gum, 340 00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:49,166 I remember that. And we used to clap 341 00:15:49,266 --> 00:15:51,666 in the same way, but he -- It was like a cavalcade, 342 00:15:51,766 --> 00:15:54,300 you know, of all kinds of different acts coming on 343 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,766 and singing their songs, so you actually would see them. 344 00:15:56,866 --> 00:16:00,333 -From ABC Television Center in Hollywood -- "Shindig!" 345 00:16:00,433 --> 00:16:04,266 -♪ I got a woman mean as she can be ♪ 346 00:16:04,366 --> 00:16:08,900 ♪ Well, I got a woman mean as she can be ♪ 347 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,600 ♪ Well, sometimes I think she's almost mean as me ♪ 348 00:16:12,700 --> 00:16:15,533 -"Shindig!" was really the first real rock 'n' roll show 349 00:16:15,633 --> 00:16:16,900 in the United States. 350 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:18,400 -♪ Well, I sure do it good 351 00:16:18,500 --> 00:16:20,433 ♪ I got a woman mean as she can be ♪ 352 00:16:20,533 --> 00:16:22,533 -♪ I got a woman 353 00:16:22,633 --> 00:16:25,166 ♪ Sometimes I think she's almost mean as me ♪ 354 00:16:25,266 --> 00:16:27,300 -♪ I got a woman -Whoo! 355 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,133 -It was all black and white. 356 00:16:29,233 --> 00:16:33,666 Fast cuts, you know, kind of exciting-looking. 357 00:16:33,766 --> 00:16:35,900 And "American Bandstand," it was different, you know, 358 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,533 it was kids dancing, and it was very polite 359 00:16:38,633 --> 00:16:41,166 and, you know, Dick Clark was 360 00:16:41,266 --> 00:16:42,733 sort of, you know, like your dad. 361 00:16:42,833 --> 00:16:44,100 But this wasn't like that. 362 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:45,400 This was more, you know, 363 00:16:45,500 --> 00:16:47,833 cutting edge-looking and feeling. 364 00:16:47,933 --> 00:16:49,966 ♪ 365 00:16:50,066 --> 00:16:53,500 I got the gig of being a rhythm guitar player 366 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,666 on "Shindig!" and we'd prerecord most of the tracks. 367 00:16:56,766 --> 00:16:57,966 Sometimes we would play live. 368 00:16:58,066 --> 00:16:59,100 [ Audience screaming ] 369 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:00,366 But we'd prerecord the music, 370 00:17:00,466 --> 00:17:02,533 and then the artists would sing live. 371 00:17:02,633 --> 00:17:05,533 [ Thunder rumbling ] 372 00:17:11,466 --> 00:17:14,333 [ The Rolling Stones' "Little Red Rooster" plays ] 373 00:17:14,433 --> 00:17:17,433 [ Audience screaming ] 374 00:17:25,966 --> 00:17:29,866 -♪ I am the little red rooster, baby ♪ 375 00:17:29,966 --> 00:17:33,933 ♪ Too lazy to crow for day 376 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,933 ♪ I am the little red rooster, baby ♪ 377 00:17:44,033 --> 00:17:47,566 ♪ Too lazy to crow for day 378 00:17:57,333 --> 00:18:01,300 ♪ I keep everything in the farmyard ♪ 379 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:05,133 ♪ Upset in every way 380 00:18:11,300 --> 00:18:14,366 -So you got up close. 381 00:18:14,466 --> 00:18:17,033 It also gave you sense about that band as sort of being 382 00:18:17,133 --> 00:18:19,933 playful, casual, modern, stylish. 383 00:18:20,033 --> 00:18:21,633 You know, you got all these image things 384 00:18:21,733 --> 00:18:23,766 out of whatever they sought to do. 385 00:18:23,866 --> 00:18:26,466 -♪ Paperback writer 386 00:18:26,566 --> 00:18:30,100 -♪ Paperback writer -♪ Paperback writer 387 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:36,033 ♪ 388 00:18:36,133 --> 00:18:38,600 ♪ Yes, sir or madam, will you read my book? ♪ 389 00:18:38,700 --> 00:18:41,833 ♪ It took me years to write, will you take a look? ♪ 390 00:18:41,933 --> 00:18:44,933 ♪ It's based on a novel by a man named Lear ♪ 391 00:18:45,033 --> 00:18:47,033 ♪ And I need a job so I wanna be ♪ 392 00:18:47,133 --> 00:18:50,200 ♪ A paperback writer 393 00:18:50,300 --> 00:18:53,966 ♪ Paperback writer 394 00:18:54,066 --> 00:18:57,266 -In England, every Beatles song had a movie. 395 00:18:57,366 --> 00:18:58,300 ♪ 396 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,400 Whether they were singing on a rooftop 397 00:19:00,500 --> 00:19:02,200 or whether they were singing in a room 398 00:19:02,300 --> 00:19:03,200 or they were in the studio, 399 00:19:03,300 --> 00:19:05,066 there was always some visual thing 400 00:19:05,166 --> 00:19:06,866 sent around the world for the Beatles 401 00:19:06,966 --> 00:19:08,533 when they weren't touring. 402 00:19:08,633 --> 00:19:12,533 -♪ Paperback writer 403 00:19:12,633 --> 00:19:16,333 ♪ Paperback writer 404 00:19:16,433 --> 00:19:19,033 -♪ Paperback writer 405 00:19:19,133 --> 00:19:21,233 -Everything was covered. Everything was shot. 406 00:19:21,333 --> 00:19:22,933 And everybody wanted to see them. 407 00:19:23,033 --> 00:19:24,900 And everybody wanted to see all of it. 408 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,333 -♪ A thousand pages, give or take a few ♪ 409 00:19:27,433 --> 00:19:30,533 ♪ I'll be writing more in a week or two ♪ 410 00:19:30,633 --> 00:19:33,166 ♪ I can make it longer if you like the style ♪ 411 00:19:33,266 --> 00:19:34,700 ♪ I can change it round 412 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,133 ♪ And I want to be a paperback writer ♪ 413 00:19:38,233 --> 00:19:40,066 -Because they had the money to do it and they had the platform 414 00:19:40,166 --> 00:19:42,000 to get it out there and they were, you know, 415 00:19:42,100 --> 00:19:43,700 at the time, they were the center of the universe, 416 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:45,766 so filmmakers and everybody wanted to associate 417 00:19:45,866 --> 00:19:47,166 with the Beatles. 418 00:19:47,266 --> 00:19:48,800 So someone would say, "Hey, let's make a music video." 419 00:19:48,900 --> 00:19:51,266 -♪ If you must return it, you can send it here ♪ 420 00:19:51,366 --> 00:19:54,033 ♪ But I need a break and I want to be ♪ 421 00:19:54,133 --> 00:19:56,866 ♪ A paperback writer 422 00:19:56,966 --> 00:20:01,133 ♪ Paperback writer 423 00:20:01,233 --> 00:20:07,500 ♪ Paperback writer 424 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,166 -You know, there was a lot of music and picture 425 00:20:10,266 --> 00:20:11,833 and the Beatles, of course, 426 00:20:11,933 --> 00:20:16,133 I had seen all of -- everything that the Beatles ever did. 427 00:20:16,233 --> 00:20:18,366 I went to see "Help!" the weekend it opened. 428 00:20:18,466 --> 00:20:19,600 That's what I would consider 429 00:20:19,700 --> 00:20:22,233 to be one of the first true music videos. 430 00:20:22,333 --> 00:20:25,333 -The Beatles got in on it, you know, relatively early 431 00:20:25,433 --> 00:20:28,500 with non-narrative pieces that connoted a certain feeling 432 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:30,933 and a certain style, and it allowed you to sort of 433 00:20:31,033 --> 00:20:32,866 re-evaluate your relationship with these artists 434 00:20:32,966 --> 00:20:34,366 and what they were and reimagine them. 435 00:20:34,466 --> 00:20:36,166 -Sometimes we'd call them promo clips. 436 00:20:36,266 --> 00:20:39,033 You know, Chrysalis, they were doing Blondie promo clips. 437 00:20:39,133 --> 00:20:41,333 And you would take them and you'd show them 438 00:20:41,433 --> 00:20:44,400 to radio stations at a party for Blondie. 439 00:20:44,500 --> 00:20:45,800 ♪ 440 00:20:45,900 --> 00:20:48,300 You know, Blondie, you know, Debbie Harry, she's amazing. 441 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,566 -♪ Hanging on the telephone 442 00:20:52,666 --> 00:20:55,833 ♪ It's good to hear your voice, you know it's been so long ♪ 443 00:20:55,933 --> 00:20:58,966 ♪ If I don't get your calls, then everything goes wrong ♪ 444 00:20:59,066 --> 00:21:00,166 ♪ I want to tell you something ♪ 445 00:21:00,266 --> 00:21:02,466 ♪ You've known all along 446 00:21:02,566 --> 00:21:08,333 ♪ Don't leave me hanging on the telephone ♪ 447 00:21:08,433 --> 00:21:10,700 Because we were international, 448 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:15,033 we had to make videos, and we made videos from day one. 449 00:21:15,133 --> 00:21:20,566 And, you know, making videos at that point was so inexpensive. 450 00:21:20,666 --> 00:21:23,233 -First it started out just as an art form 'cause it was fun, 451 00:21:23,333 --> 00:21:24,833 it was experimental, it was another way for artists 452 00:21:24,933 --> 00:21:26,033 to express themselves 453 00:21:26,133 --> 00:21:28,100 and it was done pretty much on the cheap. 454 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,833 But done right, it would work amazingly well for an artist. 455 00:21:30,933 --> 00:21:32,866 -♪ Show you my affection 456 00:21:32,966 --> 00:21:35,200 ♪ Oh, I can't control myself 457 00:21:35,300 --> 00:21:38,300 -It was so new that there were no ground rules. 458 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,233 For a few glorious years, 459 00:21:40,333 --> 00:21:45,000 you had carte blanche to do whatever you could think of. 460 00:21:45,100 --> 00:21:47,633 When I got the call to do the "Billie Jean" video, 461 00:21:47,733 --> 00:21:50,166 Michael Jackson wanted something cinematic 462 00:21:50,266 --> 00:21:51,766 with -- with something magical. 463 00:21:51,866 --> 00:21:55,500 And so I showed him this idea about this magical Midas Touch 464 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,433 with this private detective on his tail, 465 00:21:57,533 --> 00:22:00,833 and doing some things with old- fashioned filmmaking as well. 466 00:22:00,933 --> 00:22:03,033 I really wanted to do something with glass shots which were 467 00:22:03,133 --> 00:22:05,400 where you put a glass in front of the camera 468 00:22:05,500 --> 00:22:07,300 and you paint a piece of the set 469 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,200 and you just have a little more magic to it. 470 00:22:10,300 --> 00:22:12,600 You know, his manager had said the week before, 471 00:22:12,700 --> 00:22:15,100 he's worked out some dance moves in front of the mirror 472 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,766 so leave a little space for that. 473 00:22:17,866 --> 00:22:19,800 There was a storyboard and then there was a bit 474 00:22:19,900 --> 00:22:22,200 where it was just like, well, this is just you dancing. 475 00:22:22,300 --> 00:22:25,400 And it wasn't until that moment in the studio when the track 476 00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:29,900 came on that we saw what he was going to do. 477 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,600 I was operating the camera and the camera literally 478 00:22:32,700 --> 00:22:34,800 steamed up because of my -- 479 00:22:34,900 --> 00:22:37,666 the heat coming from me at what I was seeing. 480 00:22:37,766 --> 00:22:40,133 The eyepiece steamed completely. 481 00:22:40,233 --> 00:22:41,700 Amazing. 482 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,100 Initially, MTV got the "Billie Jean" video 483 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,466 and felt it wasn't for their audience. 484 00:22:47,566 --> 00:22:50,333 You know, there weren't any black artists on MTV. 485 00:22:50,433 --> 00:22:53,866 MTV was music television, 486 00:22:53,966 --> 00:22:59,866 but it was basically... white...rock music television. 487 00:22:59,966 --> 00:23:03,566 It wasn't really music television. 488 00:23:03,666 --> 00:23:10,100 -♪ Everyone's watchin' to see what you will do ♪ 489 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,133 ♪ Everyone's lookin' at you 490 00:23:14,233 --> 00:23:15,900 ♪ Oh 491 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,533 -A lot of the early videos that were played on MTV 492 00:23:18,633 --> 00:23:20,333 were rock video clips. 493 00:23:20,433 --> 00:23:23,600 And MTV didn't necessarily see itself being in the business 494 00:23:23,700 --> 00:23:27,133 of broadcasting kind of diversity of popular music. 495 00:23:27,233 --> 00:23:29,133 -♪ Get it right 496 00:23:29,233 --> 00:23:32,200 -It was basically an exclusionary medium. 497 00:23:32,300 --> 00:23:34,766 The founders of MTV always imagined 498 00:23:34,866 --> 00:23:38,666 that their primary demographic were white males, 499 00:23:38,766 --> 00:23:41,100 um, young males who were into rock music 500 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:42,766 and didn't listen to anything else. 501 00:23:42,866 --> 00:23:46,900 -♪ Everybody's goin' off the deep end ♪ 502 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,233 ♪ 503 00:23:49,333 --> 00:23:53,733 ♪ Everybody needs a second chance, oh ♪ 504 00:23:53,833 --> 00:23:55,166 -It was a good point. 505 00:23:55,266 --> 00:23:57,533 I would say that in those days, MTV's format was -- 506 00:23:57,633 --> 00:24:00,366 it was a little bit too careful and overly restrictive. 507 00:24:00,466 --> 00:24:05,300 -♪ Do you really want to hurt me? ♪ 508 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,700 ♪ Do you really want to make me cry? ♪ 509 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,533 -But what wound up happening fairly quickly 510 00:24:13,633 --> 00:24:17,300 was we could play Culture Club, 511 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,833 who was basically doing R&B music. 512 00:24:19,933 --> 00:24:22,333 You know, we could play bands that were doing 513 00:24:22,433 --> 00:24:25,500 what black artists were doing, but they were white. 514 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,833 And we weren't playing black artists doing the same thing. 515 00:24:27,933 --> 00:24:30,733 -♪ She's a very kinky girl 516 00:24:30,833 --> 00:24:34,600 ♪ The kind you don't take home to mother ♪ 517 00:24:34,700 --> 00:24:37,966 ♪ She will never let your spirits down ♪ 518 00:24:38,066 --> 00:24:41,400 ♪ Once you get her off the street, oh, girl ♪ 519 00:24:41,500 --> 00:24:46,200 -Rick James was a rock 'n' roll artist who belonged on MTV. 520 00:24:46,300 --> 00:24:49,033 -♪ She says that I'm her all-time favorite ♪ 521 00:24:49,133 --> 00:24:53,266 ♪ When I make my move to her room, it's the right time ♪ 522 00:24:53,366 --> 00:24:55,233 ♪ She's never hard to please 523 00:24:55,333 --> 00:24:56,566 ♪ Oh, no 524 00:24:56,666 --> 00:24:58,733 ♪ That girl is pretty wild now 525 00:24:58,833 --> 00:25:00,266 -♪ The girl's a super freak 526 00:25:00,366 --> 00:25:02,033 -♪ The kind of girl you read about ♪ 527 00:25:02,133 --> 00:25:03,766 -♪ In New Wave magazines 528 00:25:03,866 --> 00:25:05,866 -♪ That girl is pretty kinky 529 00:25:05,966 --> 00:25:07,466 -♪ The girl's a super freak 530 00:25:07,566 --> 00:25:09,333 -♪ I'd really love to taste her ♪ 531 00:25:09,433 --> 00:25:10,833 -♪ Every time we meet 532 00:25:10,933 --> 00:25:13,733 -He's sitting on the sidelines like "I want to be down. 533 00:25:13,833 --> 00:25:16,966 I have stuff to say, you know, I want to be part of this -- 534 00:25:17,066 --> 00:25:19,933 this -- this dialogue that's going on." 535 00:25:20,033 --> 00:25:23,466 -It's a strange thing. I watch MTV 536 00:25:23,566 --> 00:25:25,466 and I see all these acts, 537 00:25:25,566 --> 00:25:27,700 some of them don't have record deals, 538 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,666 some of them don't sell 9 records. 539 00:25:29,766 --> 00:25:31,700 Then there's acts that sell millions and millions of copies 540 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:36,633 of records and people want to see them, and we're not seen. 541 00:25:36,733 --> 00:25:38,800 Maybe it's the skin we're in. 542 00:25:38,900 --> 00:25:40,366 I don't see many black videos on MTV. 543 00:25:40,466 --> 00:25:42,100 I wish we could see more. 544 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,000 -Michael Jackson broke that race barrier 545 00:25:44,100 --> 00:25:46,266 because of the pressure that his record label 546 00:25:46,366 --> 00:25:47,600 at the time put on MTV, 547 00:25:47,700 --> 00:25:50,366 saying, "If you don't play Michael Jackson's videos, 548 00:25:50,466 --> 00:25:53,100 you're not getting any other videos from the record label." 549 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,733 -CBS at that time really put the foot down 550 00:25:55,833 --> 00:25:58,600 and really, you know, really used their leverage 551 00:25:58,700 --> 00:26:00,933 to get him in rotation and the rest is history. 552 00:26:01,033 --> 00:26:03,700 -It was amazing to watch. 553 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,966 Then you were on to "Thriller." 554 00:26:07,066 --> 00:26:08,800 And it was like the biggest event -- 555 00:26:08,900 --> 00:26:10,633 it was like MTV ran it every hour. 556 00:26:10,733 --> 00:26:12,800 The full-length thing. 557 00:26:12,900 --> 00:26:16,333 -♪ 'Cause this is thriller 558 00:26:16,433 --> 00:26:18,066 ♪ Thriller night 559 00:26:18,166 --> 00:26:21,500 ♪ And no one's gonna save you from the beast about to strike ♪ 560 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,133 ♪ You know it's thriller 561 00:26:24,233 --> 00:26:26,000 ♪ Thriller night 562 00:26:26,100 --> 00:26:29,933 ♪ You're fighting for your life inside a killer, thriller ♪ 563 00:26:30,033 --> 00:26:31,433 -And I remember we would be recording, 564 00:26:31,533 --> 00:26:34,466 and we'd be like, "what time is it?" 565 00:26:34,566 --> 00:26:36,233 5 to 8:00. "Okay, wait, hold it. 566 00:26:36,333 --> 00:26:38,133 We're gonna stop for a minute. We gotta go watch it." 567 00:26:38,233 --> 00:26:39,766 And we'd sit and watch the whole video and we'd go, 568 00:26:39,866 --> 00:26:42,066 "Yeah, yeah, that was good." Then we'd record again. 569 00:26:42,166 --> 00:26:45,800 "What time is it?" 5 to 9:00. "Okay, hold on." 570 00:26:45,900 --> 00:26:49,533 -You know, it's coming on television at a particular time 571 00:26:49,633 --> 00:26:52,300 and people are tuning in to it to see this premiere 572 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,866 the way they would, you know, go see a movie in a theater. 573 00:26:55,966 --> 00:26:59,400 -♪ Then any ghoul would ever dare try ♪ 574 00:26:59,500 --> 00:27:01,633 -I'm just sitting here for hours waiting for Michael Jackson 575 00:27:01,733 --> 00:27:04,566 to come on, but meanwhile, I'm getting introduced 576 00:27:04,666 --> 00:27:08,000 to Men at Work and -- and -- The Pretenders 577 00:27:08,100 --> 00:27:12,600 and a whole array of metal music and rock music 578 00:27:12,700 --> 00:27:16,066 and synth pop and punk rock and you know... 579 00:27:16,166 --> 00:27:17,966 And they're playing it over and over again. 580 00:27:18,066 --> 00:27:22,166 So suddenly now I'm an expert in pop music by default. 581 00:27:22,266 --> 00:27:24,433 -The reason "Thriller" is the length is it is 'cause 582 00:27:24,533 --> 00:27:27,100 I wanted it to be a theatrical short. 583 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,000 It was a short. 584 00:27:29,100 --> 00:27:32,566 Um, and I wanted it to be in theaters. 585 00:27:32,666 --> 00:27:34,566 In fact, it still breaks my heart 586 00:27:34,666 --> 00:27:36,533 that thevast majority of people 587 00:27:36,633 --> 00:27:39,500 have seen "Thriller" this big, you know. 588 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,766 -Michael Jackson was able to break down those walls. 589 00:27:42,866 --> 00:27:47,466 Whatever the walls that had been set up at the start of MTV, 590 00:27:47,566 --> 00:27:49,033 of who was going to be the audience 591 00:27:49,133 --> 00:27:52,833 for MTV for the future, there was a big turning point, 592 00:27:52,933 --> 00:27:55,666 and then it pushed the walls down 593 00:27:55,766 --> 00:27:58,866 and became what MTV then became. 594 00:27:58,966 --> 00:28:01,800 -It changes the whole notion of what's possible 595 00:28:01,900 --> 00:28:05,400 for a black artist in the age of music video. 596 00:28:05,500 --> 00:28:06,800 -While, in its early days the channel 597 00:28:06,900 --> 00:28:09,333 seriously avoided black music and was even accused 598 00:28:09,433 --> 00:28:10,800 of musical racism, -♪ Huh! 599 00:28:10,900 --> 00:28:13,766 it later realized the power and importance of the genre 600 00:28:13,866 --> 00:28:17,566 and brought rap to the masses with the highly successful show 601 00:28:17,666 --> 00:28:18,733 "Yo! MTV Raps." 602 00:28:18,833 --> 00:28:20,266 -Yo, let's do this. Let's do this. 603 00:28:20,366 --> 00:28:22,333 ♪ I'm DJ Jazzy Jeff -♪ And, yo, I'm the Prince 604 00:28:22,433 --> 00:28:24,833 ♪ And I'm ready Rock C --♪ Hold up, bust this 605 00:28:24,933 --> 00:28:26,200 ♪ We wanna let everybody know where it's at ♪ 606 00:28:26,300 --> 00:28:27,466 ♪ It's right here 607 00:28:27,566 --> 00:28:29,033 -♪ Yo! MTV Raps 608 00:28:29,133 --> 00:28:32,233 -♪ Box, box, box for you, for you ♪ 609 00:28:32,333 --> 00:28:33,600 ♪ Fresh, fresh 610 00:28:33,700 --> 00:28:37,666 -The first rap video to be played on MTV 611 00:28:37,766 --> 00:28:41,866 was a record called "Rock Box," which was on our first album. 612 00:28:41,966 --> 00:28:46,200 And at the time, the only other big, huge black artist 613 00:28:46,300 --> 00:28:47,866 was Michael Jackson. 614 00:28:47,966 --> 00:28:52,933 When we came along, it was what the hell is this? 615 00:28:53,033 --> 00:28:55,200 -♪ Artists were heard, but never seen ♪ 616 00:28:55,300 --> 00:28:57,100 ♪ Until MTV hit the spot 617 00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,200 ♪ Right and then and there, folks became aware ♪ 618 00:28:59,300 --> 00:29:01,600 ♪ That hip hop was something quite gothic ♪ 619 00:29:01,700 --> 00:29:03,633 -♪ Records went gold and lyrics got bold ♪ 620 00:29:03,733 --> 00:29:04,866 [Siren wails] ♪ Violence became 621 00:29:04,966 --> 00:29:06,100 ♪ the main topic 622 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,433 ♪ 623 00:29:09,533 --> 00:29:10,433 -♪ Hit me 624 00:29:10,533 --> 00:29:12,433 -Because hip hop was this new genre, 625 00:29:12,533 --> 00:29:14,266 one in which there were a lot of naysayers 626 00:29:14,366 --> 00:29:15,933 who doubted its longevity, 627 00:29:16,033 --> 00:29:18,333 who questioned its politics or its message, 628 00:29:18,433 --> 00:29:20,566 "Yo! MTV Raps" sort of legitimized 629 00:29:20,666 --> 00:29:22,233 the art form to a lot of people. 630 00:29:22,333 --> 00:29:23,600 And it was able to -- importantly, 631 00:29:23,700 --> 00:29:25,766 it broadcast these songs that might have been recorded 632 00:29:25,866 --> 00:29:29,700 in one part of the U.S., and suddenly made them sort of 633 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,633 nationally available in a way that was instantaneous. 634 00:29:32,733 --> 00:29:35,333 -It became obvious to the people running MTV 635 00:29:35,433 --> 00:29:38,166 that all this music is about cross-pollination. 636 00:29:38,266 --> 00:29:41,800 It's not about any one race or creed or style, 637 00:29:41,900 --> 00:29:44,200 it's about this melange. 638 00:29:44,300 --> 00:29:49,833 [ Madonna's "Borderline" playing ] 639 00:29:49,933 --> 00:29:51,433 -There were those artists that 640 00:29:51,533 --> 00:29:53,866 had watched a couple of years of MTV, 641 00:29:53,966 --> 00:29:57,566 had invented themselves with an image, 642 00:29:57,666 --> 00:30:01,633 and known that their future depended on them having 643 00:30:01,733 --> 00:30:04,066 some kind of an image, whether it was how they dressed 644 00:30:04,166 --> 00:30:06,100 or even the attitude of their music. 645 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,100 It was thought of from a visual point of view. 646 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,866 -♪ Something in the way you love me ♪ 647 00:30:10,966 --> 00:30:13,033 ♪ Won't let me be 648 00:30:13,133 --> 00:30:16,466 -You know, MTV has got very few female artists at that point 649 00:30:16,566 --> 00:30:18,166 and I'm talking to the people at MTV, 650 00:30:18,266 --> 00:30:21,333 and I'm saying Madonna, Madonna, Madonna, Madonna, Madonna, 651 00:30:21,433 --> 00:30:22,766 Madonna, Madonna, Madonna, Madonna, Madonna, 652 00:30:22,866 --> 00:30:26,533 because Madonna could be a big MTV artist. 653 00:30:26,633 --> 00:30:28,366 -♪ Finish what you start 654 00:30:28,466 --> 00:30:31,233 ♪ When you make my love come down ♪ 655 00:30:31,333 --> 00:30:35,233 -They quickly realized that Madonna could be a huge star, 656 00:30:35,333 --> 00:30:37,200 and they jump. 657 00:30:37,300 --> 00:30:42,166 And especially when Mary Lambert delivers "Borderline." 658 00:30:42,266 --> 00:30:46,066 -Jeff Ayeroff said to me, you know, there's this girl 659 00:30:46,166 --> 00:30:48,266 and I think she's going to be really big 660 00:30:48,366 --> 00:30:50,766 and I'll buy you a plane ticket to New York 661 00:30:50,866 --> 00:30:52,733 and you can meet her. 662 00:30:52,833 --> 00:30:54,200 I had never heard of Madonna. 663 00:30:54,300 --> 00:30:56,233 I didn't know anyone who had ever heard of Madonna 664 00:30:56,333 --> 00:30:59,266 and he gave me, you know, this record to listen to. 665 00:30:59,366 --> 00:31:00,700 I did not know what to expect. 666 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,433 I didn't know what she looked like. 667 00:31:02,533 --> 00:31:04,200 She sounded like the black girl. 668 00:31:04,300 --> 00:31:07,833 ♪ You just keep on pushin' my love ♪ 669 00:31:07,933 --> 00:31:11,333 ♪ Over the borderline 670 00:31:11,433 --> 00:31:14,466 -With music videos she was really kind of coming out 671 00:31:14,566 --> 00:31:17,733 and showing us what it all could be. 672 00:31:17,833 --> 00:31:21,266 And she used MTV as much as they used her. 673 00:31:21,366 --> 00:31:22,666 -Hi. [laughs] 674 00:31:22,766 --> 00:31:25,000 -So what have you been up to? What's happening with you? 675 00:31:25,100 --> 00:31:27,266 -I'm working on a new album with Nile Rodgers. 676 00:31:27,366 --> 00:31:29,733 We've been working for the past two months and I'll be releasing 677 00:31:29,833 --> 00:31:32,566 the first single, which is called "Like a Virgin" 678 00:31:32,666 --> 00:31:34,200 the first week of June. 679 00:31:34,300 --> 00:31:37,900 -I go to Mary Lambert, and I say here's a song, "Like a Virgin." 680 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:39,966 -Jeff was always, you know, you've interviewed him, 681 00:31:40,066 --> 00:31:44,700 Jeff's always pushing things, and he's never satisfied with 682 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,600 your first idea, or he always knows that you can do better 683 00:31:48,700 --> 00:31:50,266 if you work at it a little bit. 684 00:31:50,366 --> 00:31:52,033 He's great -- he's really great to work -- 685 00:31:52,133 --> 00:31:54,300 as an artist, he's so great to work with. 686 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:58,266 I wrote a script for it, but it was just about her 687 00:31:58,366 --> 00:32:01,666 having two boyfriends, and one of them was soulful and poor, 688 00:32:01,766 --> 00:32:05,266 and the other one was successful and rich and, uh, 689 00:32:05,366 --> 00:32:07,533 he's like, "Why don't you -- you need to think bigger." 690 00:32:07,633 --> 00:32:11,633 "You need to think, um, of a bigger idea. 691 00:32:11,733 --> 00:32:13,666 I want to take this to the next step." 692 00:32:13,766 --> 00:32:16,233 So I just came up with like the most impossible thing 693 00:32:16,333 --> 00:32:18,166 I could possibly imagine. 694 00:32:18,266 --> 00:32:21,900 I never, ever guessed that they would buy it. 695 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,266 Let's have her in a gondola, dancing. 696 00:32:24,366 --> 00:32:26,966 "In Venice?" And I'm like, "Yeah, in Venice!" 697 00:32:27,066 --> 00:32:30,133 And everyone's like, "Yeah! Let's go to Venice." 698 00:32:30,233 --> 00:32:31,700 So we went to Venice. 699 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,366 -♪ I made it through the wilderness ♪ 700 00:32:35,466 --> 00:32:40,633 ♪ Somehow I made it through 701 00:32:40,733 --> 00:32:46,300 ♪ Didn't know how lost I was until I found you ♪ 702 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:47,900 -So like a bunch of merry pranksters, 703 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,066 we go to Venice, Italy. 704 00:32:50,166 --> 00:32:52,500 My fondest memory is sitting on the boat 705 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,466 that Madonna's singing on -- 'cause we're going 706 00:32:54,566 --> 00:32:59,666 under small bridges -- going, "Duck, duck." 707 00:32:59,766 --> 00:33:03,366 -♪ Yeah, you make me feel 708 00:33:03,466 --> 00:33:07,800 ♪ Shiny and new...hey 709 00:33:07,900 --> 00:33:11,366 ♪ Like a virgin 710 00:33:11,466 --> 00:33:15,100 ♪ Touched for the very first time ♪ 711 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,133 -It was the most romantic part of the video business 712 00:33:18,233 --> 00:33:22,633 I could recall, you know, and that video just blew up. 713 00:33:22,733 --> 00:33:25,000 It was like a holy alliance, you know? 714 00:33:25,100 --> 00:33:28,200 ♪ All my love, boy 715 00:33:28,300 --> 00:33:31,500 In 1985, when Madonna was getting ready to go on tour, 716 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:32,833 like she was -- she was big, 717 00:33:32,933 --> 00:33:35,133 but it wasn't like she's Madonna. 718 00:33:35,233 --> 00:33:38,000 Like, we got asked to open for her, and we had never 719 00:33:38,100 --> 00:33:39,900 really been on a tour and so we're there, 720 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,366 and every show on that tour, like say the tour started here 721 00:33:43,466 --> 00:33:46,933 and ended here, each place got bigger and bigger and bigger. 722 00:33:47,033 --> 00:33:48,500 Like, they would swap out the place. 723 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,400 Like, no, you don't -- you can't play in the theater, 724 00:33:51,500 --> 00:33:53,433 you have to play in the amphitheater. 725 00:33:53,533 --> 00:33:54,466 You can't play in the amphitheater, 726 00:33:54,566 --> 00:33:55,900 you have to play in the arena. 727 00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:01,200 Like, every day, you know, you know, 500,000 more people 728 00:34:01,300 --> 00:34:02,966 heard about who Madonna was. 729 00:34:03,066 --> 00:34:06,633 -♪ I hear your voice 730 00:34:06,733 --> 00:34:10,966 ♪ It's like an angel sighing 731 00:34:11,066 --> 00:34:12,933 ♪ I have no choice 732 00:34:13,033 --> 00:34:16,633 ♪ I hear your voice 733 00:34:16,733 --> 00:34:19,066 ♪ Feels like flying 734 00:34:19,166 --> 00:34:21,066 -Almost every time there was a Madonna video, 735 00:34:21,166 --> 00:34:23,533 there was a controversy -- almost every one. 736 00:34:23,633 --> 00:34:25,666 I remember a video once, "Like a Prayer" when it came in 737 00:34:25,766 --> 00:34:27,800 and, I mean, she had just done a big advertising campaign 738 00:34:27,900 --> 00:34:30,166 for Pepsi-Cola and I think they paid her $10 million 739 00:34:30,266 --> 00:34:32,699 or something and I remember sitting there and watching it 740 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:34,866 with this fellow who was the marketing guy 741 00:34:34,966 --> 00:34:37,166 from Pepsi-Cola, he happened to be in my office, 742 00:34:37,266 --> 00:34:39,166 and so we both saw it at the same time. 743 00:34:39,266 --> 00:34:43,033 He said this, his reaction was, "Oh, no. There goes my job." 744 00:34:43,133 --> 00:34:47,166 -♪ Life is a mystery 745 00:34:47,266 --> 00:34:51,533 ♪ Everyone must stand alone 746 00:34:51,633 --> 00:34:56,266 ♪ I hear you call my name 747 00:34:56,366 --> 00:35:00,433 ♪ And it feels like home 748 00:35:00,533 --> 00:35:04,233 -She, as an artist, didn't want to be fettered by any of that. 749 00:35:04,333 --> 00:35:06,600 She saw it as just -- as censorship. 750 00:35:08,066 --> 00:35:10,533 -M...T...V, 751 00:35:10,633 --> 00:35:13,300 let it...rip! 752 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:17,466 The year of "Thriller" was the first MTV Awards. 753 00:35:17,566 --> 00:35:20,233 [ Cheers and applause ] 754 00:35:20,333 --> 00:35:23,800 -Your hosts, ladies and gentlemen, 755 00:35:23,900 --> 00:35:28,600 Bette Midler and Dan Aykroyd! 756 00:35:28,700 --> 00:35:30,466 -My wife and I were sitting in the front row 757 00:35:30,566 --> 00:35:32,366 at Radio City Music Hall. 758 00:35:32,466 --> 00:35:34,433 Danny Aykroyd and Bette Midler were the hosts. 759 00:35:34,533 --> 00:35:38,066 And we're sitting in this row with Diana Ross, Cher, 760 00:35:38,166 --> 00:35:39,400 Tina Turner, I think. 761 00:35:39,500 --> 00:35:42,433 I'm trying to think, but all these divas. 762 00:35:42,533 --> 00:35:44,300 And Madonna comes out. 763 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:45,866 No one had ever heard of her. 764 00:35:45,966 --> 00:35:48,533 And she was rolling around onstage, 765 00:35:48,633 --> 00:35:50,000 and I won't say who, 766 00:35:50,100 --> 00:35:52,933 but someone really legendary said, 767 00:35:53,033 --> 00:35:56,000 "Take a good look. We're never seeing her again." 768 00:35:56,100 --> 00:35:59,066 -♪ Don't stop me now, don't need to catch my breath ♪ 769 00:35:59,166 --> 00:36:03,566 ♪ I can go on and on and on 770 00:36:03,666 --> 00:36:06,833 ♪ When the lights go down, and there's no one left ♪ 771 00:36:06,933 --> 00:36:10,500 ♪ I can go on and on and on 772 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,033 ♪ Give it to me 773 00:36:13,133 --> 00:36:14,500 ♪ Yeah 774 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,700 ♪ No one's gonna show me how 775 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,400 -She was sort of Our Divine Miss M, Madonna. 776 00:36:20,500 --> 00:36:23,633 We were sort of born at the same time and, uh, you know, 777 00:36:23,733 --> 00:36:25,600 she was the consummate video artist 778 00:36:25,700 --> 00:36:27,566 who could reinvent herself. 779 00:36:27,666 --> 00:36:29,900 She put money and thought into this. 780 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,833 -♪ Never lasts and then it has to fall ♪ 781 00:36:33,933 --> 00:36:35,333 -Madonna made me. 782 00:36:35,433 --> 00:36:38,466 She made guys like me, she made MTV to a certain extent 783 00:36:38,566 --> 00:36:41,600 because she understood the power of what she was doing. 784 00:36:41,700 --> 00:36:44,366 -♪ Give me the bassline 785 00:36:44,466 --> 00:36:48,300 -Madonna, in particular, whose entire brand as an artist 786 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,133 is to be a chameleon and to be protean 787 00:36:50,233 --> 00:36:51,400 and keep changing herself. 788 00:36:51,500 --> 00:36:54,100 She just changed the whole notion that your identity 789 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,500 as a recording artist is singular and fixed. 790 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,700 -♪ Don't stop me now, don't need to catch my breath ♪ 791 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,866 ♪ I can go on and on and on 792 00:37:02,966 --> 00:37:05,900 -Once you get on MTV and you do well, you gotta do better. 793 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:07,366 And especially for the artist's ego. 794 00:37:07,466 --> 00:37:09,600 An artist's ego is like... 795 00:37:09,700 --> 00:37:10,966 every song I write's gotta be better 796 00:37:11,066 --> 00:37:13,333 than the last song I write. Every video I got to make, 797 00:37:13,433 --> 00:37:14,766 it's got to be better than the last video. 798 00:37:14,866 --> 00:37:17,833 So you have a multiplicity of combinations of both audio 799 00:37:17,933 --> 00:37:19,300 and visual pressure. 800 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,266 -There was a lot of people who didn't want to do it, 801 00:37:21,366 --> 00:37:25,233 a lot of the older artists. 802 00:37:25,333 --> 00:37:27,200 Bruce Springsteen for a while. 803 00:37:27,300 --> 00:37:28,733 A common complaint was they didn't want 804 00:37:28,833 --> 00:37:32,100 to fix people's perceptions, that this is a story. 805 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:36,833 ♪ 806 00:37:36,933 --> 00:37:41,033 -It changed people's focus. 807 00:37:41,133 --> 00:37:42,666 And now they just had something else 808 00:37:42,766 --> 00:37:44,000 that they had to concentrate on. 809 00:37:44,100 --> 00:37:45,533 "Oh, God, I have to do the video." 810 00:37:45,633 --> 00:37:48,333 You know, Tom Petty is notorious for hating doing videos. 811 00:37:48,433 --> 00:37:49,600 -♪ Hey 812 00:37:49,700 --> 00:37:52,533 ♪ Don't come around here no more ♪ 813 00:37:52,633 --> 00:37:57,333 -I remember having a record that had five hit singles. 814 00:37:57,433 --> 00:38:01,333 And I had to make five videos. 815 00:38:01,433 --> 00:38:02,700 ♪ I've given up 816 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:03,933 -♪ Stop 817 00:38:04,033 --> 00:38:06,300 -It became another job. 818 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:07,466 -♪ Ooh 819 00:38:07,566 --> 00:38:08,833 -♪ I've given up 820 00:38:08,933 --> 00:38:12,133 -♪ Stop -♪ On waiting any longer 821 00:38:12,233 --> 00:38:15,166 And not only did I have to make five videos, 822 00:38:15,266 --> 00:38:19,933 they were getting expensive and the record company 823 00:38:20,033 --> 00:38:23,233 only would pay for maybe half the expense. 824 00:38:23,333 --> 00:38:26,133 So I'm spending millions 825 00:38:26,233 --> 00:38:29,266 by the time I've done, you know, five, six videos. 826 00:38:29,366 --> 00:38:31,833 ♪ 827 00:38:31,933 --> 00:38:37,600 ♪ Don't come around here no more ♪ 828 00:38:37,700 --> 00:38:43,800 ♪ Don't come around here no more ♪ 829 00:38:43,900 --> 00:38:46,233 ♪ I don't feel you anymore 830 00:38:46,333 --> 00:38:51,066 The biggest complaint I had with it was it really 831 00:38:51,166 --> 00:38:55,766 nailed down the movie to the song. 832 00:38:55,866 --> 00:39:00,500 ♪ Whatever you're looking for 833 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:01,633 ♪ Hey! 834 00:39:01,733 --> 00:39:04,166 No one hears "Don't Come Around Here No More" 835 00:39:04,266 --> 00:39:07,266 and doesn't see "Alice in Wonderland." 836 00:39:07,366 --> 00:39:09,300 ♪ I've given up, stop 837 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,600 Except me. 838 00:39:11,700 --> 00:39:13,900 -MTV, like David Bowie and Madonna, 839 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,233 knew that they had to morph and change and morph and change, 840 00:39:17,333 --> 00:39:19,066 which is, if you think about it, 841 00:39:19,166 --> 00:39:22,466 it is the psyche of a young person. 842 00:39:22,566 --> 00:39:24,466 -New concerts, new guest... -VJ. 843 00:39:24,566 --> 00:39:25,933 -...New specials. 844 00:39:26,033 --> 00:39:30,466 There's always something new on MTV, 24 hours a day on cable TV. 845 00:39:30,566 --> 00:39:33,133 -Too much? -Too much is never enough. 846 00:39:33,233 --> 00:39:36,433 And as soon as MTV comes along with its fast-cutting videos, 847 00:39:36,533 --> 00:39:38,700 and its different kind of lifestyle 848 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:40,766 and its VJs and all of that stuff, 849 00:39:40,866 --> 00:39:44,066 there becomes a saturation point. 850 00:39:44,166 --> 00:39:49,300 So when you all of a sudden slow down, you make that turn, 851 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,433 and you go, "Now for something completely different." 852 00:39:52,533 --> 00:39:53,933 [ Cheers and applause ] 853 00:39:54,033 --> 00:39:56,566 Here's an intimate look at Eric Clapton. 854 00:39:56,666 --> 00:39:59,400 [ Cheers and applause continue ] 855 00:39:59,500 --> 00:40:02,166 Who some people in England call God. 856 00:40:02,266 --> 00:40:04,000 "Eric Clapton Unplugged." 857 00:40:04,100 --> 00:40:05,266 What a genius thing. 858 00:40:05,366 --> 00:40:07,933 [ Cheers and applause continue ] 859 00:40:08,033 --> 00:40:09,833 -You know, I recall that Eric was a bit nervous 860 00:40:09,933 --> 00:40:12,766 before that performance. 861 00:40:12,866 --> 00:40:15,766 You're used to playing in big arenas or stadiums, 862 00:40:15,866 --> 00:40:18,733 and it's kind of easy to hide in that mass. 863 00:40:18,833 --> 00:40:20,066 -Thank you very much. 864 00:40:20,166 --> 00:40:21,800 [ Applause ] 865 00:40:21,900 --> 00:40:25,333 -But when you are in front of a hundred people, maybe, 866 00:40:25,433 --> 00:40:27,400 in that room, and you're stripped down, 867 00:40:27,500 --> 00:40:29,166 you don't have the loud amplifiers, 868 00:40:29,266 --> 00:40:33,566 it's just you and your acoustic instrument, 869 00:40:33,666 --> 00:40:35,833 you got to come up with the goods, baby. 870 00:40:35,933 --> 00:40:38,133 ♪ 871 00:40:38,233 --> 00:40:43,200 -♪ What will you do when you get lonely? ♪ 872 00:40:43,300 --> 00:40:48,366 ♪ No one waiting by your side ♪ 873 00:40:48,466 --> 00:40:53,533 ♪ You've been running and hiding much too long ♪ 874 00:40:53,633 --> 00:40:57,266 ♪ You know it's just your foolish pride ♪ 875 00:40:57,366 --> 00:40:59,433 ♪ Layla 876 00:40:59,533 --> 00:41:01,366 When I started recording in this country 877 00:41:01,466 --> 00:41:05,133 with people like the Yardbirds and I was introduced to, 878 00:41:05,233 --> 00:41:06,500 you know, like a studio with lots of microphones, 879 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,566 every amplifier, every instrument had a microphone on, 880 00:41:09,666 --> 00:41:12,233 it was all -- it had become so complicated 881 00:41:12,333 --> 00:41:14,933 and sophisticated that it was almost impossible 882 00:41:15,033 --> 00:41:16,800 to hear the room anymore, you know? 883 00:41:16,900 --> 00:41:19,733 And you -- people were adding effects. 884 00:41:19,833 --> 00:41:22,766 ♪ Tried to give you consolation ♪ 885 00:41:22,866 --> 00:41:26,100 So I was always going for simplicity in my own work, 886 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,300 if I can, and my journey was always about 887 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,200 going backwards anyway. 888 00:41:30,300 --> 00:41:34,866 ♪ Like a fool, I fell in love with you ♪ 889 00:41:34,966 --> 00:41:38,333 ♪ You turned my whole world upside down ♪ 890 00:41:38,433 --> 00:41:41,566 ♪ Layla 891 00:41:41,666 --> 00:41:46,466 -He did the show not thinking about releasing it as a CD, 892 00:41:46,566 --> 00:41:50,866 and so when the label said, "Why don't we put this out?" 893 00:41:50,966 --> 00:41:52,400 He didn't want to do it. 894 00:41:52,500 --> 00:41:56,533 ♪ Darling, won't you ease my worried mind ♪ 895 00:41:56,633 --> 00:41:59,266 -I'd done videos for Eric, and they were pretty good, 896 00:41:59,366 --> 00:42:01,166 but they weren't breakthrough videos. 897 00:42:01,266 --> 00:42:02,566 ♪ Make the best of the situation ♪ 898 00:42:02,666 --> 00:42:04,766 -It wasn't till Eric did "Unplugged" 899 00:42:04,866 --> 00:42:07,500 that Eric's career just skyrocketed. 900 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,466 -♪ Go insane 901 00:42:10,566 --> 00:42:11,800 ♪ Please don't say 902 00:42:11,900 --> 00:42:17,433 -"Eric Clapton Unplugged" sells 5 million copies. 903 00:42:17,533 --> 00:42:18,900 -Ch... 904 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:20,133 -Isn't that weird? I've never used it before, 905 00:42:20,233 --> 00:42:21,333 but they're a lot lighter than sticks... 906 00:42:21,433 --> 00:42:24,100 -Check, check, check, check, check, check. 907 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:25,400 -MTV was powerful enough at the time 908 00:42:25,500 --> 00:42:27,300 that you didn't say no to them. 909 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,600 You can't imagine what the climate was then. 910 00:42:29,700 --> 00:42:31,133 It was so different. 911 00:42:31,233 --> 00:42:34,166 -Can we get on with this? We're like an hour late. 912 00:42:34,266 --> 00:42:36,133 -You know, I think it was like pop radio, 913 00:42:36,233 --> 00:42:39,966 uh, you know, back in the '50s and stuff with payola. 914 00:42:40,066 --> 00:42:44,566 If you didn't play ball, you know, good luck. 915 00:42:44,666 --> 00:42:45,733 -What are we doing? 916 00:42:45,833 --> 00:42:48,300 -They're hearing some kind of buzz from this. 917 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,933 -And a band that might not want to do it. 918 00:42:51,033 --> 00:42:52,266 -Is Scott ready now? 919 00:42:52,366 --> 00:42:54,066 -There's management, there's the record label 920 00:42:54,166 --> 00:42:56,300 that says, "You got to do this." 921 00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,266 -Yes. -Okay, I'm here. 922 00:42:58,366 --> 00:42:59,566 -Okay, we're ready. 923 00:42:59,666 --> 00:43:03,000 -Kurt saw it as an interesting thing to do, 924 00:43:03,100 --> 00:43:06,866 as an experiment, as a one-off. 925 00:43:06,966 --> 00:43:09,733 -[Bleep] you all. This is the last song of the evening. 926 00:43:09,833 --> 00:43:11,266 [ Laughter ] 927 00:43:11,366 --> 00:43:14,566 -No one was doing it for like any sort of career opportunity. 928 00:43:14,666 --> 00:43:16,733 There was the passion and the energy of what everyone 929 00:43:16,833 --> 00:43:20,900 was doing because it was all for the thrill of playing. 930 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:22,066 [ Tuning guitar ] 931 00:43:22,166 --> 00:43:27,066 -Scott, how out of tune is my vocal? 932 00:43:27,166 --> 00:43:30,466 -No more than normal. -Meaning what? 933 00:43:30,566 --> 00:43:31,966 -It's fine. 934 00:43:32,066 --> 00:43:34,200 -Swear to God? 935 00:43:34,300 --> 00:43:37,900 -I think they chose to do some songs that were not originals, 936 00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:41,233 even though MTV at the time was like, "Play the hits, 937 00:43:41,333 --> 00:43:42,933 play the hits, play the hits." 938 00:43:43,033 --> 00:43:46,266 -♪ In the pines, in the pines 939 00:43:46,366 --> 00:43:49,466 ♪ Where the sun don't ever shine ♪ 940 00:43:49,566 --> 00:43:51,566 ♪ I would shiver 941 00:43:51,666 --> 00:43:56,200 ♪ the whole night through 942 00:43:56,300 --> 00:43:59,800 ♪ My girl, my girl 943 00:43:59,900 --> 00:44:02,966 ♪ Where will you go? 944 00:44:03,066 --> 00:44:09,733 ♪ I'm going where the cold wind blows ♪ 945 00:44:09,833 --> 00:44:13,466 ♪ In the pines, the pines 946 00:44:13,566 --> 00:44:16,400 ♪ The sun don't shine 947 00:44:16,500 --> 00:44:21,466 ♪ And I shiver 948 00:44:21,566 --> 00:44:25,066 ♪ The whole 949 00:44:25,166 --> 00:44:26,133 [ Exhales ] 950 00:44:26,233 --> 00:44:28,400 ♪ Night through 951 00:44:28,500 --> 00:44:30,166 ♪ -ough-ough-ough-ough 952 00:44:30,266 --> 00:44:31,600 ♪ -ough-ough-ough-ough 953 00:44:31,700 --> 00:44:34,100 ♪ -ough-ough-ough-ough 954 00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,233 ♪ 955 00:44:36,333 --> 00:44:39,200 -That song showed all the torment 956 00:44:39,300 --> 00:44:41,766 that Kurt was going through. 957 00:44:41,866 --> 00:44:46,500 ♪ 958 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,233 -I still get chills thinking about it. 959 00:44:48,333 --> 00:44:53,000 ♪ 960 00:44:53,100 --> 00:44:56,600 -And Kurt loved how it came out. 961 00:44:56,700 --> 00:44:58,133 Which is really important 962 00:44:58,233 --> 00:45:01,066 because later on when they put it out as a record, 963 00:45:01,166 --> 00:45:04,800 it wasn't putting out something that he wouldn't have liked. 964 00:45:04,900 --> 00:45:08,100 It was actually -- he loved it. 965 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:12,233 After Kurt died, when it was decided to put that out 966 00:45:12,333 --> 00:45:18,966 as an album, the powers that be had me remix it for a CD. 967 00:45:19,066 --> 00:45:26,233 Having to revisit that and remix it after his death... 968 00:45:26,333 --> 00:45:27,633 was haunting. 969 00:45:27,733 --> 00:45:30,866 ♪ In the pines, in the pines 970 00:45:30,966 --> 00:45:34,033 ♪ Where the sun don't ever shine ♪ 971 00:45:34,133 --> 00:45:41,333 ♪ I would shiver the whole night through ♪ 972 00:45:41,433 --> 00:45:43,266 -TV is the most powerful promotional tool 973 00:45:43,366 --> 00:45:45,233 that's ever been made 974 00:45:45,333 --> 00:45:48,633 and for the period of time, MTV was in its prime in terms of 975 00:45:48,733 --> 00:45:52,166 exposing new music and playing it a lot 976 00:45:52,266 --> 00:45:55,200 and creating excitement in the industry. 977 00:45:55,300 --> 00:45:58,900 It was the strongest time the record business had ever seen. 978 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:00,600 -Bruno, your brother's here. -What'd he say? 979 00:46:00,700 --> 00:46:03,933 -Hello?! -♪ Do something crazy 980 00:46:04,033 --> 00:46:07,600 -Find out what happens... -When people stop being polite. 981 00:46:07,700 --> 00:46:09,733 Could you get the phone? -And start getting real. 982 00:46:09,833 --> 00:46:11,133 -"The Real World." 983 00:46:11,233 --> 00:46:14,833 -If you turn on MTV now, good luck seeing a music video. 984 00:46:14,933 --> 00:46:18,366 -This Tuesday, can anyone put out Tony and Madison's fire? 985 00:46:18,466 --> 00:46:20,166 -I mean a long time ago, MTV started 986 00:46:20,266 --> 00:46:23,866 doing original programming that wasn't just music video. 987 00:46:23,966 --> 00:46:28,133 -Is this chicken what I have or is this fish? 988 00:46:28,233 --> 00:46:34,033 I know it's tuna, but it says "Chicken...by the Sea." 989 00:46:34,133 --> 00:46:37,500 [ Laughs ] Is that stupid? 990 00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:39,166 -MTV had gotten a bit stale, 991 00:46:39,266 --> 00:46:40,900 and we decided we were in many ways 992 00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:44,066 stuck to the vibrancy of the music business. 993 00:46:44,166 --> 00:46:45,633 -Shut up! -Take it easy, big guy. 994 00:46:45,733 --> 00:46:48,233 -So we said maybe we could be not just about music 995 00:46:48,333 --> 00:46:50,366 but we can be a lot of the things that the music's about -- 996 00:46:50,466 --> 00:46:52,166 fashion, you know, there are some -- 997 00:46:52,266 --> 00:46:54,700 we can beef up news, we could talk about movies. 998 00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:56,466 -Don't miss an all-new "Real World Skeletons" 999 00:46:56,566 --> 00:46:58,600 this Tuesday at 10:00, followed by "The Challenge." 1000 00:46:58,700 --> 00:47:01,366 I always thought we couldn't rip music out from MTV and just 1001 00:47:01,466 --> 00:47:03,000 become something else entirely. 1002 00:47:03,100 --> 00:47:07,133 And, uh, you know, but they have ripped music out. 1003 00:47:07,233 --> 00:47:10,566 [ Tranquil tune plays ] 1004 00:47:11,733 --> 00:47:15,633 ♪ 1005 00:47:15,733 --> 00:47:18,533 The music business is a whole different thing now 1006 00:47:18,633 --> 00:47:20,333 in terms of its economics. 1007 00:47:20,433 --> 00:47:24,466 -♪ Swinging in the backyard, pull up in your fast car ♪ 1008 00:47:24,566 --> 00:47:28,233 ♪ Whistling my name 1009 00:47:28,333 --> 00:47:31,533 ♪ Open up a beer and you say, "Get over here" ♪ 1010 00:47:31,633 --> 00:47:35,500 ♪ And play your videogames 1011 00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,166 -The communal experience of listening to music in a group, 1012 00:47:38,266 --> 00:47:39,733 listening to a radio station 1013 00:47:39,833 --> 00:47:42,100 or watching MTV with a group of friends is kind of diminished. 1014 00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:43,733 I mean, people are watching online, 1015 00:47:43,833 --> 00:47:46,100 not on a TV screen, but leaning forward 1016 00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:48,866 and seeing it on a -- on a, you know, on their smartphone. 1017 00:47:48,966 --> 00:47:51,300 But music videos still play a big role. 1018 00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,700 -♪ Go play your videogame 1019 00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:56,600 -With this technology that even 20 years ago 1020 00:47:56,700 --> 00:47:58,366 we could scarcely have dreamed of, 1021 00:47:58,466 --> 00:48:01,633 the possibilities are kind of limitless. 1022 00:48:01,733 --> 00:48:04,833 Anybody can make a record in their bedroom, 1023 00:48:04,933 --> 00:48:08,400 can turn on the camera on their laptop 1024 00:48:08,500 --> 00:48:11,566 and suddenly they've got a video on YouTube. 1025 00:48:11,666 --> 00:48:17,333 We've even seen, um, big pop stars made this way. 1026 00:48:17,433 --> 00:48:20,666 -♪ Is that true? 1027 00:48:20,766 --> 00:48:23,400 -You know, YouTube, the Internet, 1028 00:48:23,500 --> 00:48:27,400 is just MTV on so many steroids, 1029 00:48:27,500 --> 00:48:29,500 they make Arnold Schwarzenegger look like the puny guy 1030 00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,233 on the beach that got sand kicked in his face. 1031 00:48:32,333 --> 00:48:37,766 -Your first question -- what is your aspiration in life? 1032 00:48:37,866 --> 00:48:45,733 -Oh, my aspiration in life. Wow, that's a great question. 1033 00:48:45,833 --> 00:48:50,200 -If you look at Beyoncé releasing a all-video album... 1034 00:48:50,300 --> 00:48:52,133 -♪ Lungs 1035 00:48:52,233 --> 00:48:53,733 ♪ Ghost in the sheets 1036 00:48:53,833 --> 00:48:58,366 -No one ever had the power to not promote a record first, 1037 00:48:58,466 --> 00:49:00,800 just take the Internet 1038 00:49:00,900 --> 00:49:03,066 and, you know, carpe diem to a certain extent, 1039 00:49:03,166 --> 00:49:05,733 seize that moment and do it all at one time 1040 00:49:05,833 --> 00:49:07,466 and have a huge album in one week -- 1041 00:49:07,566 --> 00:49:09,166 no one had ever done that. 1042 00:49:09,266 --> 00:49:11,966 ♪ Where will it be? 1043 00:49:12,066 --> 00:49:14,300 -♪ I know if I'm on to you 1044 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:16,700 ♪ I'm on to you 1045 00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:20,800 ♪ On to you, I'm on to you 1046 00:49:20,900 --> 00:49:26,900 ♪ On to you, you must be on to me ♪ 1047 00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:30,400 -If you look at Beyoncé through the filter of Madonna, 1048 00:49:30,500 --> 00:49:31,833 through the filter of David Bowie, 1049 00:49:31,933 --> 00:49:33,233 you go, zoop, zoop. 1050 00:49:33,333 --> 00:49:34,400 -♪ You want me? 1051 00:49:34,500 --> 00:49:37,566 -You see the reinvention process. 1052 00:49:37,666 --> 00:49:39,300 She just basically looked at her career 1053 00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:40,533 and said, "what haven't I done?" 1054 00:49:40,633 --> 00:49:43,700 -♪ Slap me, I'm pinned to the doorway ♪ 1055 00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:45,700 -What can we do that no one has ever done? 1056 00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:50,000 [ Beyoncé's "XO" playing ] 1057 00:49:50,100 --> 00:49:51,633 -♪ Your love is bright as ever 1058 00:49:51,733 --> 00:49:53,300 When I'm connected to something, 1059 00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:59,133 I immediately see a visual or a series of images 1060 00:49:59,233 --> 00:50:04,000 that are tied to a feeling or an emotion, 1061 00:50:04,100 --> 00:50:07,500 a memory from my childhood, 1062 00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:12,133 thoughts about life, my dreams, or my fantasies. 1063 00:50:12,233 --> 00:50:14,166 And they're all connected to the music. 1064 00:50:14,266 --> 00:50:16,400 ♪ Your heart is glowin' 1065 00:50:16,500 --> 00:50:18,900 And I think it's one of the reasons why I wanted 1066 00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,033 to do a visual album. 1067 00:50:22,133 --> 00:50:25,933 I wanted people to hear the songs with the story 1068 00:50:26,033 --> 00:50:28,566 that's in my head 'cause it's what makes it mine. 1069 00:50:28,666 --> 00:50:31,766 ♪ Ooh, baby, daylight's wasting ♪ 1070 00:50:31,866 --> 00:50:34,866 [echoing] ♪ wasting, wasting, wasting 1071 00:50:34,966 --> 00:50:39,833 ♪ You better kiss me ♪ kiss me, kiss me, kiss me 1072 00:50:39,933 --> 00:50:42,466 ♪ Before our time has run out 1073 00:50:42,566 --> 00:50:46,233 ♪ Mmm, yeah 1074 00:50:46,333 --> 00:50:49,200 -You make music and you make decisions artistically 1075 00:50:49,300 --> 00:50:50,766 at the level of your ambition. 1076 00:50:50,866 --> 00:50:53,100 Beyoncé's an artist who wants world domination. 1077 00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,633 She's not trying to just have a couple of records 1078 00:50:55,733 --> 00:50:57,033 that play good in the hood. 1079 00:50:57,133 --> 00:51:00,633 Beyoncé wants to be played in India. 1080 00:51:00,733 --> 00:51:04,066 -When someone like Beyoncé puts out an album overnight 1081 00:51:04,166 --> 00:51:07,333 with no lead-up whatsoever, which is almost unheard of, 1082 00:51:07,433 --> 00:51:09,800 it's all about the particular image they're trying to shape, 1083 00:51:09,900 --> 00:51:12,566 and I think more so than sales numbers, 1084 00:51:12,666 --> 00:51:15,533 what artists are concerned about in a day of social media 1085 00:51:15,633 --> 00:51:18,266 and 24/7 news coverage is they're really self-conscious 1086 00:51:18,366 --> 00:51:20,400 about image and about brand. 1087 00:51:20,500 --> 00:51:22,600 -♪ Pretty hurts 1088 00:51:22,700 --> 00:51:25,700 ♪ Pretty hurts 1089 00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:26,766 -It's no different than Michael Jackson 1090 00:51:26,866 --> 00:51:28,866 doing "Thriller." You know they all -- 1091 00:51:28,966 --> 00:51:31,566 everybody takes a look at what happened before, 1092 00:51:31,666 --> 00:51:33,800 they observe it, they morph it, 1093 00:51:33,900 --> 00:51:35,833 they put it through the machine, 1094 00:51:35,933 --> 00:51:37,600 and they make it their own. 1095 00:51:37,700 --> 00:51:40,233 They regurgitate it as some other genius piece, 1096 00:51:40,333 --> 00:51:42,300 some other idea no one had, 1097 00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:45,300 and that's what I think a lot of artists do today. 1098 00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:49,966 And they all know what visuals mean to them. 1099 00:51:50,066 --> 00:51:53,766 ♪ 1100 00:51:53,866 --> 00:51:56,866 -♪ Yeah, yes 1101 00:51:56,966 --> 00:51:57,166 [ Static crackles ] 1102 00:51:57,266 --> 00:51:59,966 0 C1 1103 00:52:00,066 --> 00:52:00,866 ♪ 1104 00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,433 -"Soundbreaking" is available on DVD. 1105 00:52:13,533 --> 00:52:15,633 The companion book is also available. 1106 00:52:15,733 --> 00:52:20,233 To order, visit shopPBS.org or call 1-800-Play-PBS. 1107 00:52:20,333 --> 00:52:23,333 ♪ 87321