Original subtitles

Holy crap, look!

It was a perfect triangle just floating across the sky,

way up there.

I think it was a spaceship of some sort.

Aliens, first thing that I thought,

but it scared the heck out of me.

There's a lot of talk about the Tic Tac

actually being U.S. technology.

And that is very interesting to me

because you ask the pilots, and they say

there is no possibility that that could be

a technology that we've made.

If something doesn't look right,

we have to revise the way we think about reality, you know?

Jacques, in discussing, he started

talking about some of these materials that he had from uap.

Why would somebody alter magnesium?

And it doesn't sound like something

you would go throwing around a beach in Brazil.

When people claim they know

what this is about, whether it's some kind of fraud

or it's some kind of mechanism, my eyes just roll.

You either don't know what you're talking about,

or you're lying.

I can't tell you what's going on,

but I can tell you this.

If we ever figure it out, it's gonna change the world.

I'd say there's...

A couple hundred of these slides in here.

I mean, we can just go through them one after the other

and just look at images.

I am looking at pictorial targets that were likely used

for remote viewing subjects

to test their remote viewing capacities.

Remote viewing was a kind of military lingo

for what an earlier period would have called clairvoyance.

Essentially, seeing what's happening at a distance.

And the U.S. government

and various U.S. intelligence agencies

got very interested in these capacities in the 1970s.

It's partly because the Soviet union was interested,

and so there was a kind of parapsychological space race.

Intelligence agencies basically trained a number

of military professionals to become clairvoyant spies

on the Soviet union.

That's essentially what remote viewing is.

Russell targ is a laser physicist.

He worked with another physicist named hal puthoff.

They're the ones who ran the remote viewing program.

Hal puthoff... he's in his 80s now.

He has been involved long, long time

doing studies on remote viewing,

all of it for the government.

He knows a lot. He's a deep insider.

The person who really led that program

after Russell stepped down

donated 50 to a hundred boxes of declassified material.

It's all right... It's all right here.

Operation Stargate,

the CIA so-called psychic spying program

went on for about 20 years

and its budget got cut during the Clinton administration,

when the post-cold war atmosphere

was producing budget cuts

in the military and intelligence,

and there is a debate to this day

over the validity of the results that have emerged from Stargate.

They would put these in a slide machine.

They'd throw the image up on the slide,

and they would ask the remote viewer,

who would be in another room

or another building what was the image

up on the screen at that moment,

and they would have some system for determining

whether it was a hit or miss or a near miss or a near hit.

People think that's all, you know,

bogus, but it's not.

If you look at the actual studies and read the documents,

remote viewing got great results.

Essentially, it's the idea that we live

in this infinitely entangled universe

at the quantum level.

Psychic espionage is really just a matter of indexing

a kind of place in time, in time-space,

that allows the psyche of the investigator

to target them.

I'm hal puthoff from Stanford university,

phd in quantum electronics.

Remote viewing in the old days

used to call remote viewing, esp.

That is the ability of people to sense things

or to pick up information from remote locations

or hidden locations and so on.

I wasn't particularly interested in the topic.

It was only because there was an individual

who had demonstrated the ability to "see" inside a device,

a very high tech magnetometer at Stanford university,

and so this fellow by the name of ingo Swann was asked

to demonstrate his ability, and he did.

It was absolutely amazing to me as a physicist.

I can't imagine, you know, anything like this occurring.

Well, suddenly the CIA descended on my doorstep,

and they said, "have we been looking for you."

And I said, "why?" You know, "what did I do?"

And they said, "well we saw that early in your career

you were a naval intelligence officer,

used to be in NSA."

So I was at Sri, and I was a physicist

instead of a psychologist, which they took to be a plus.

And they saw that this experiment had occurred,

and they said, "what we're dealing with"

is that the Russians have been spending millions of dollars

at their best institutes for some of their best people

for years on, 'esp research, '

so we were wondering, would you be willing to set up

"a small program to look into it?"

So, I founded the program in '72.

And it turned out there were remote viewers who were

able to see into hidden places and remote locations

with some degree of accuracy. I mean, not 100%,

but more than an ordinary physicist

could seemingly account for.

And so we agreed to do a series of experiments.

Here, the experiment is repeated,

this time with puthoff as a sender.

This is a drawing that geller has made

to correspond to the target object.

As you can see, he is quite elated

about getting the right answer.

Here in the laboratory notebook, on the left side of the page

you see the original targets,

and on the right, geller's responses.

This is not a collection of correct answers

out of a long series of correct and incorrect responses.

This is actually the total run of pictures in a series.

It is interesting that there is often a mirror symmetry.

I was at Sri before them, working on the arpanet,

which became the Internet.

Sri had machine number 2 on the Internet.

Okay, so it was a significant place

at the time in software development

before what became, you know, the Internet.

The director of our branch came into my office

and closed the door and said there is a proposal

to do parapsychology research at Sri.

He said, "let me draw you a picture,"

and he went to my white board,

and he drew a scale.

On one side he put a big cube,

and he wrote, "a hundred million dollars,"

which was his budget,

and then he put a little dot here that said,

"$1 million,"

which was research that puthoff and targ

wanted to do parapsychology,

and he said, "we're going to jeopardize"

a hundred million dollars of research

with IBM, AT&T, intel, xerox...

Major corporate america companies

by doing this research on parapsychology

where, you know, we may be subject

"to a lot of ridicule. We may not find anything."

And he said, "you've been able to keep your reputation,

you know, in science when studying ufos.

How did you do it?"

And I said, "well, you know the solution may be to keep

that research classified,"

not because there were big secrets, you know,

for the next atom bomb, but because if you announce it

on day one, everybody is going to attack us.

We should let puthoff and targ run laboratory here.

It became an extraordinary program at Sri,

Stanford research institute, on remote viewing.

We ended up training

army intelligence remote viewers to learn to tap into this.

So, that's how the whole remote viewing program took off.

One of our very first operational cases that we did

for the CIA was they wanted to know

about a research facility in the Soviet union.

Semipalatinsk was the name of it.

We had no idea what was there,

but we had really good remote viewer.

So, we just gave him coordinates and said,

"tell us what you see there."

He drew a giant crane.

He said it was so large it ran over the top of a building

and said that they were building these giant spheres there,

60 foot in diameter.

And so he gave a really terrific description

and turned out the information was really quite accurate,

so the CIA spent a week having him wander

through this facility in the Soviet union,

describing everything he saw.

And so it was evaluated by a number of elements

of the agency and other outside contractors.

And they were absolutely amazed.

That was a major thing.

Another critical one was that there was

a Libyan pilot who flew Soviet airplanes.

And, he was going to turn the plane over to... to us.

But after he was in the air, he got cold feet,

and he realized, "my god, the kgb will, you know,

chase me the rest of my life."

So, he just bailed out of the plane and he said,

"okay, I had a problem with the plane,

and I just bailed out."

So the plane just ran till it ran out of gas

and, you know, crashed in Africa.

Shortly after Carter left the presidency,

he was addressing a group of students,

at Emory university in Atlanta,

and he related the account of how a Soviet spy plane

had crashed in central Africa, and this spy plane contained

lots of valuable espionage technology,

so there were recon teams

from both the U.S. side and the Soviet side

that were racing to find this wreckage

and either secure it or procure it.

When president Carter

was briefed on the plane going down,

Stan Turner, who was the CIA director, said,

"well, you know, we've got these remote viewers.

Maybe they can find the plane."

So, we put two of our best remote viewers on it.

Long story short, they made an excellent map

that was within three miles of where that plane crashed,

so the CIA was able to go in and get the plane,

of course, before the Russians even knew where it was.

So, those are the kind of operational things

that we would do as it came up.

Data that, in fact, the Russians were doing

exactly this kind of stuff.

In fact, when the CIA came to me at Sri and said,

"we'd like for you to look into this,"

they plopped a telephone-sized book down on my desk

that was full of Russian work in this area,

and so that's why they knew that they took it seriously.

Afterwards, Carter was subjected to mockery

the notion that you could believe

that this remote viewing program had actually produced

actionable intelligence was held up to ridicule,

but of course Carter is a nuclear engineer.

He's speaking from a place of informed inquiry.

He's at the top level of executive oversight.

He has access to the information.

This is obviously an informed account.

But it's very easy for an observer

to just say, "there goes old Jimmy again

talking about little green men or what have you."

It was the easiest thing in the world.

The stigma that was originally, you know,

forefront for things like esp research,

remote viewing, ufo research, and so on

were very high back in, you know, the '60s and '70s,

but because now it's become clear

and much of the information in both

the remote viewing program that was highly classified,

and in the uap program that was highly classified.

Since much of that has been declassified,

is now available to the public.

Scientists are beginning to realize that,

"well, there appears to be more to this than we thought."

When people say that the government

had no interests in ufos and uap, we think,

"well, we know that they were interested in psychic abilities

and experiments with LSD and psychedelics

and all sorts of weird and wonderful things

from... from decades ago, why wouldn't they be interested

in ufos and uap?

What's really fascinating about that

is the overlap between the people who were part

of these programs back in, like, the '70s,

and the ufo community, as it exists now,

the people whose names most people will know,

that are still in the community,

are still going on podcasts, are still talking about this.

A lot of them were involved

in these remote viewing programs decades ago.

I tend in the direction

that, if there were a major planetary uap event

that forced all governments and all peoples

to realize that this is an absolutely real thing.

I'm of the opinion that it'd be more likely

to unite our viewpoints than to result in panic.

These uap events are definitely beyond our engineering,

but not beyond our physics.

I made a list of what are all the weird things that people

have claimed associated with observation of uap,

and there are a lot of weird things.

And suppose Einstein's equation for general relativity,

you know, black holes and astrophysics,

to access those things that general relativity says

that in principle you could, with warp drive and wormholes

and all that kind of stuff takes enormous amounts

of concentrated energy at infinitesimal volumes,

and we just don't have that.

So, I would say it's not beyond our physics.

We can understand the physics,

but it is definitely beyond our engineering.

So, given that that's the case, that's another reason

why I think the source of the phenomena

is not black programs and Russia, China or the us,

but really from some other source.

My god, what was that?

Yeah, am I a believer in ufos?

I mean, it's such a funny, funny, funny word

to a scientist.

Do I have data that makes me think

there's something there of value

to examine and come to grips with?

Absolutely. Does that make me "a believer"?

Well, I mean, for a scientist,

it's data that counts, not opinion about the data.

So, we need more data.

I think the human being is

the ultimate special effects projector.

I think human beings

are able to project special effects,

real special effects, into the physical environment

and often change things physically,

and that's why I always say I think the human is really...

Is a superhuman, but on kind of an unconscious

kind of unaware level.

What remote viewing or precognition

or any of these abilities strongly imply

is that we can actually get information

from great distances in space or... and/or time.

You would think that there must be

special people that are able to do this.

In fact, what we found was, it's sort of a bell curve.

So just like with athletic ability or music ability,

everyone seems to have this to some degree.

I mean, you get superstars at one end of the bell curve

and duds at the other end, but to some degree,

anyone could be trained.

Well, okay, that's... What do you do with that?

I mean, that radically shifts what you think a human being is.

And I think that's why it's resisted.

If you study religion, you know, there are a number

of what I would call universals in the sense

that they happen everywhere as far as we can see back.

And one of the most common religious rituals is divination,

the ability to know what's going to happen

before it happens.

Modern writers are very gifted

at explaining their own experiences.

The person I always write about is Mark twain.

Twain, or Samuel clemens,

was viciously funny and critical of everything,

but he was completely convinced

that he had had these precognitive experiences.

He called it mental telegraphy.

'Cause he knew if he wrote about it,

he would be made fun of.

And so there's this really funny moment where he gives

this essay called mental telegraphy

to a very famous magazine in the 19th century,

and he asks that they publish it anonymously

and you can just see the editor going like,

"you're Mark twain, I'm not going to do that."

The precognitive dream he relates is actually

about his brother's death. It's... it's not a happy event.

It's a tragic event.

He linked this phenomenon to his own literary creativity,

by the way.

He got ideas for stories

through channels that were not normal,

but he didn't have some kind of religious model for it.

He just felt this was part of reality, part of what he did.

I wrote the book called le sub-espace,

and it got the Jules vernes prize in France,

but the idea was that the...

A group of scientists in France were aware of strange lights

that were seen outside, but they also came

inside houses and inside buildings,

and they couldn't understand what those were.

This is 1961, 1962.

I wanted to posit the concept

that those were not necessarily e.T.S,

that it was something else.

It turns out that today people are seeing

globes of light.

They become material when they are here,

but the rest of the time they are not material,

which is why they can go through this wall

and they can transform into lights

or they can transform into globes,

into balls of light,

snot in our normal universe but in a subset of universe

I call subspace.

And these creatures exist in subspace,

and they can come into our world

through a number of different media,

some of which are flying saucers.

This is a debate that people are beginning to have now

in the United States.

Jacques vallée has been the primary person

who has brought up, "let's have a broader viewpoint

that maybe it isn't just ets coming

from some galaxy far away."

You know, maybe it's inter dimensional.

Whether it's inter dimensional, time travelers from the future,

or maybe some sequestered group

hiding out below the seabed or something,

I think we have to open up our mental telescope

to take in more than just, you know, wayfarers

coming in from other galaxies.

There's a lot of different versions

of the inter dimensional hypothesis.

That's a tough one because we don't actually know

what other dimensions are or if... if they even exist.

It's kind of like string theory and quantum theory,

but we don't actually have any proof that they exist.

They just kind of help us solve problems at this point,

and so that hypothesis can kind of take any weirdness

that you put on it.

I was studying advanced physics for a phd,

and the advanced physics says there are more

than four dimensions.

You know, there are more than just time and space.

And there may be other universes.

I mean, this is classical physics.

It's not science fiction.

They don't relate it to ufos, but maybe they should,

you know, at some point.

I think that actually one of the biggest secrets

about the ufo phenomenon

is that it's not about craft and technology,

that the people who know the most about it

and have been doing this the longest,

the thing that they're actually interested in

is consciousness and human potential,

that those are the things that they care about the most.

There is a convergence today

between the question of ufos

and the question of extra physical experience.

When I was growing up, the outlook on ufos,

if one took seriously the ufo thesis, was,

"well, maybe they're E.T. craft,"

and what would it take for some kind of mechanical vehicle

to span such distances?" But in the past few decades,

I would say that the thesis around ufo phenomena,

if one takes seriously that it's something

that goes outside of ordinary observation,

is that these experiences might be

from different intersections of time or different dimensions,

which when first said, sounds very, very far out.

But we've known since the age of Einstein

that time is conditional,

that one has to logically account for the existence

of an infinitude of simultaneous events.

People will talk about cosmic wormholes

whereby you introduce some exotic matter

into a mix of events,

and you're able to bend space-time.

These are all just conceptual models,

but it seems to me that the concepts

are better developed around interdimensionality

than they are around extraterrestriality,

which doesn't mean that only one thing is happening.

There could be a whole complexity of things

that are occurring.

The fact is, if we are experiencing evidence

from academic psychical research, esp research,

that the psyche is capable

of receiving and transmitting information

in anomalous ways that may indicate the capacity

of the psyche to travel among different intersections of time,

from which that information presumably emanates.

That is possibly parallel to exactly what's going on

when people report ufo encounters

or abduction experiences,

so part of the complexity of human nature

is that we are all conditioned to think

in terms of magic bullet theories behind events

as though to say there's just one antecedent,

and if we can find that we'll get to the truth,

whereas there's probably a complexity of antecedents.

I was very into space.

I've wanted to go to the moon.

I wanted to be with NASA, every bit of that.

In college, I started out in astrophysics,

but then I spent a summer working in the hospital

or in an operating room as an orderly,

and I really fell in love with taking care of patients.

My dad, of course, was a globally renowned neurosurgeon,

and so I knew how much he loved working with patients

and he loved neurosurgery.

In the back of my mind I thought,

"well I'll go to medical school but I'm not going to go

into neurosurgery."

That lasted until I did a neurosurgery rotation

for two weeks, and I fell in love with it

and, you know, I've never looked back.

You go in and in one day, with your hands,

you try to affect someone's life for the better.

Probably every two or three months,

I would hear fairly compelling stories

of near-death experiences or shared death

or after-death communications

that should have gotten my attention,

but I kept dismissing them,

thinking, "no," you know, "that's wishful thinking.

We don't have any way of proving that.

No, we don't seem to have memories of past lives.

"I don't know that I believe in reincarnation."

Certainly having my own personal experience

went light-years towards opening me up

to accepting and admitting this beautiful kind of expansion

in our knowledge of ourselves and the universe.

It was such a mundane day.

It was one of the most unremarkable days

you could imagine,

other than it just being a beautiful family day.

But then at 4:30 in the morning November 10th,

all that changed very dramatically, very quickly.

Well, I had...

It was a gram-negative bacterial men in go encephalitis.

Basically, the worst kind of meningitis to have.

For e.Coli meningitis, the numbers are well up there

over 50% for the people who die from it,

but it's especially bad for people

who, for example, spend a week in coma like I did.

In fact, when the three doctors who wrote the case report,

they sent it to the journal of nervous and mental diseases

for publication September 2018.

The... the peer review scientific editor

said, "wait a minute. This case is absurd."

Nothing like this precedes it in the medical literature.

"How do you explain this recovery?"

And they said, "it's because he had a near-death experience."

So, it all started in a very primitive way.

There came a slowly spinning white light.

This white light had fine silver and golden tendrils,

and it came towards me, very slowly spinning,

and as it did so, I realized

it came with a perfect musical melody.

The first time it happened, the light twirl took me up

into this brilliant ultra-real gateway valley.

It had many earth-like features.

I mean, there was this Meadow

that was lush and fertile and beautiful

surrounded by forests,

waterfalls and crystal-blue ponds,

beautiful billowing clouds of pure color

against a blue, black velvety sky.

Thousands of beings dancing down in this Meadow.

I had no body awareness at any point.

I was simply an observer, and what I observed,

I was a speck of awareness on a butterfly wing.

There were millions of other butterflies

that were looping and spiraling in these vast formations.

And the best part about it, as I've said, I wasn't alone.

You feel that, like a big hello

from this god-force of pure love.

I was told, "you're not here to stay.

We'll teach you many things. You'll be going back."

And that happened. I would just tumble back down,

but it was by remembering the musical notes of the melody

that I could conjure up that light portal

and these spiritual realms.

The actual kind of awakening

that my family witnessed

where I was fighting the ventilator,

and then when they pulled the breathing tube out,

I said, "thank you"

I have only the vaguest glimmer of a memory of that.

Although my youngest sister, Phyllis, who was there,

told me I did very shortly, like, literally

within ten or 20 minutes of the breathing tube coming out

she said I was sitting there on the bed

looking around at everyone in the room,

and I would look them in the eyes and say,

"don't worry. All is well."

What I had been through was astonishing.

I wanted to tell everybody about it,

but my doctors were trying to tell me,

"yes, you were very sick."

Your brain was soaking in pus.

We don't even know how you are coming back to us now,

but you can forget about it

"because a dying brain plays all kinds of tricks."

I just thought, "okay, hallucination,

vast hallucination, bad meningitis, I get it."

And that's what I tried to tell my son.

He had been at the bedside while I was deep in coma.

He knew something very unusual was going on,

and he told me, "write everything down

before you read anyone else's near-death account."

So, I forced myself.

I didn't read any near-death experiences,

and I just wrote down about 20,000 words

over five to six weeks of my memories

of my deep experience.

There are very interesting corollaries

for people that have had experiences

with non-human intelligence or uap, ufos,

and those that have had near-deaths

or other forms of out-of-body experience.

In reporting that, there seems to be

some layer of reality that we can't often perceive,

that is just right around us all the time,

and we have a problem discussing this.

People say, "it's, like, some other dimension,"

or, "it's some higher dimension,"

and then somebody will inevitably say,

"well, what is a dimension?

How can you say that it's a dimension,

and how could you possibly know that its higher than ours?"

When a physicist or a neurosurgeon

has an experience, you listen to them,

but when an ordinary person has such,

you don't listen to them, and I'm like, why? Why?

It's the same experience.

The answer to the why is it's the culture,

it's how knowledge is being constructed

at that particular moment,

and how authority is being delegated,

but it actually has nothing to do with the actual experiences

or with what's being communicated.

We have to get to a common point

because there's so many millions of people

that have had experiences

of some just adjacent realm to ours,

and by merely putting experiencers of one modality

near experiencers of another modality,

that conversational chain opens up.

The near-death experience is of interest

to those of us who are involved

in examining these edgy topics in human function.

Some of the cases are very famous and known,

and some of them are absolutely staggering.

For example, someone who is blind from birth,

never saw anything...

During a cardiac arrest describes the experience

of lifting out of the body and seeing things,

and then describing them in detail.

I mean, as a physicist I can't even imagine

in principle, I would think unless your brain

has been, you know, processed to interpret optical images,

I mean, I can't imagine how that could occur,

but that was pretty compelling.

The pre-coma me would have said basically

that the brain takes sensory input,

like from eyes, ears, touch, balance systems, et cetera,

assembles that in kind of a version of the now,

involving physical body,

but then you have access to memories

of all the events you've been through,

and the piece I would have missed tremendously,

that I know now since my coma, is very real,

are the aspects of conscious awareness

and information access

that go beyond the Ken of our physical senses.

All that speaks to the issue

that we are somehow connected,

and as a quantum physicist I say,

quantum entanglement, you know.

We're somehow connected to the universe around us

well beyond what we usually take cognizance of

just based on our typical five senses.

A Las Vegas businessman is plopping down

a million dollars to find out

if there is evidence of an afterlife.

Space entrepreneur Robert Bigelow has announced

the creation of a new institute that is devoted to research

into whether human consciousness survives physical death.

Robert Bigelow is an entrepreneur.

He has made most of his money in real estate and hotels,

and he's done a lot of work in the aerospace area.

He, just a few years ago, decided to turn his attention

and his resources toward investigating

the evidence for survival of death.

Robert Bigelow's been interested in ufos

for a very long time, I think since he was a young man,

basically, and he decided to offer financial support

to the study of ufos, and he set up a group

called the national institute for discovery science.

Nids is the abbreviation, in which he brought together

some of the best people in the field,

among them people like hal puthoff and Jacques vallée,

and a lot of people we are familiar with today.

And that's where I met people

like whitley strieber, John mack, and of course,

Jacques and I were part of that.

Mr. Bigelow's had a long-standing interest

in paranormal phenomena and ufo or alien-type phenomena,

and the paranormal aspects of this.

If you sort of trace it back,

it is a lot of the same people.

I mean, Harry Reid knew Bob Bigelow.

I think he influenced Harry Reid.

He also was the contractor, not surprisingly,

that worked for the a a tip program at the Pentagon

that Harry Reid set up.

As it turns out, Robert Bigelow separately

set up something called

Bigelow institute for consciousness studies.

He decided to put up a lot of money.

I mean, millions of dollars,

to investigate near-death experience.

There isn't funding anywhere else.

Private individuals, especially private individuals with means,

are some of the only people

who are willing to take a risk on this

because they're not worried about their reputation.

So, they have the freedom to take risks,

to go in experimental, edgy directions.

There's not that kind of willingness to explore

within the business world.

In the world of start ups like we think

about people taking risks

and, you know, trying new technologies,

but even that, all is super conservative

compared to doing this kind of research.

When you lose loved ones,

it does provoke that question, "well, did they survive?"

And it's happened to me.

Robert Bigelow has had tragedies, family,

he's lost some loved ones, including his wife,

and so, yeah, I think absolutely

it's not just an intellectual quest.

It's a very personal quest.

It's unfortunate that he felt the need to do that.

Yeah, but those people were only the catalyst.

They aren't the ones still moving the narrative, right?

So, all those people have done...

And I mean this in a positive way,

they brought others in.

Others who looked at the data and said,

"this is worth studying."

This morning, the former leader

of the Pentagon's ufo tracking division

is casting some doubt

on the existence of alien craft.

Sean kirkpatrick is the former director of aaro,

and he's since retired, but he's been doing some press.

After the hearing,

Dr. Sean kirkpatrick refuted rusch's claims

in a letter published on his personal LinkedIn page.

He wrote.

Sean kirkpatrick put a negative spin on it

and said, "well, there's just this group of groupies who are,"

you know, "big on ufos and ets and so on,

and they just keep talking to each other

and sharing data back and forth."

That's the scientific method. Nothing wrong with that.

So, there's kind of a disconnect there

between his statement about it

versus the people who are actually involved.

And yet, at the same time,

aaro, the offices he oversaw,

published that, "there's a number of cases

we don't understand, including these metal balls

that seem to be flying around our battlefields."

And they said, "we can't figure it out,

but we're going to tell you it's not et,

'cause we haven't proven it, but it's still moving in ways

that we don't know how to do it."

What else do you call it?

If you want to solve this mystery,

if you want to get to the bottom of this,

the best thing you can possibly do would be

to get the U.S. intelligence community

to take this on, to find the answers,

because they have capabilities that are exquisite.

We have just insane sort of capabilities

the public probably doesn't know about.

We've got satellites in geosynchronous orbit,

in low earth orbit and highly elliptical orbits

and things under the ocean and air platforms,

and new generations of things.

We have 17 different space surveillance capabilities.

Nobody in the science world has capabilities like that,

and I think that gives us hope that within our lifetimes

we may really get to the bottom of this.

It's clear to me at a very high level,

and we're talking the national security council

and the office of the director of national intelligence,

that both of them have directed,

"we do not want to disclose all that we know about uap."

So that is reflected in the latest aaro report,

for example, and with Sean kirkpatrick

is now saying coming out, I'm sure he has some alignment

or association with those two offices.

It seems to me that he is part of the disinformation campaign,

and it's clear the government does not want to disclose.

Well, they can say it's not a ufo

because maybe they've identified it.

And they know what it is, right?

We're in some kind of a race,

and the race is with destiny

human destiny and the destiny of whoever or whatever is here.

You have the defense department resisting every step of the way

because they've got so much to hide,

and the embarrassment when the truth comes out

is going to be, to say the least, fantastic.

Imagine if you did have a recovered craft.

It'd be something the equivalent of taking something back to,

you know, the 1700s and dropping them, like,

a brand new Harley-Davidson motorcycle.

They ain't gonna figure it out.

And they're not gonna figure out the gasoline.

They're not gonna figure out anything.

They might kick it over and it... kaboom! You know?

And kicks off, but...

And that's sort of like where we're at right now.

Some people think, "the government has

the full picture, and they just don't wanna tell us."

I think it's just as likely they're reluctant to tell us

what they know because of a lack of knowledge.

It's because they don't have the answers,

and it scares them because it's like,

where is this stuff from? We don't really know.

Regardless of what happens in Washington, D.C.,

with the disclosure narrative,

and who knows where that's gonna go?

The cat has been let out of the bag.

I think there is a growing number of people

who are picking this up

as... as a real, legitimate line of inquiry.

These are anthropologists and, you know,

religious studies people and philosophers.

We're seeing people teaching ufo classes in colleges.

And so this is a brand-new world.

We should be constructing the arguments in a way

that will convince the public that we're serious about it.

You can't claim a scientific conclusion

if you don't produce the science that you used

to come to the conclusion for other people to verify.

Otherwise, it's just an anecdote.

You are passing off as truth, a story.

I actually don't think we'll ever get

a scientific model for this because it's not science.

We can go outside right now, and I can try to prove to you

that there are stars in the sky,

and you'll just look at me like, "you're crazy,"

and if we couldn't go out at night,

if we were... if we were bound to noon,

you would win the argument every single time.

So, it's actually the context that matters.

It's not me telling you there's stars in the sky.

You won't ever believe me

because there's no way to go out at night in that model,

and so that's really what we need.

We need a way to go out at night and look at the stars,

and we just don't have that yet.

Science is restricted to the sun,

to cognitive reason and the senses,

and this is about altered states

that we don't actually know how to study

because they don't follow those rules.

It may be that all of these experiences,

whether it's a ufo encounter,

whether it's so-called poltergeist activity,

whether it's a near-death experience

or reflections or snapshots in a certain sense

of this extra physical field

in which the psyche participates.

From my perspective, it's a very exciting time

because we're experiencing not only the mainstreaming

of the ufo thesis,

but the conversation around ufos

and the conversation around the psychical

or the extra physical are starting to converge,

and that's a hallmark of our time.