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1
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Gregorio Napoli is
a well-known Sicilian film critic.
2
00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:58,113
Gregorio, how did you feel in 1975
3
00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,550
the distant 1975,
4
00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,957
when you found out about
Pier Paolo Pasolini's death?
5
00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:08,711
It was Sunday,
2 November 1975,
6
00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:14,233
and I had spent the holiday
in one of my seaside homes.
7
00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,238
Back in Palermo,
I lay down for a nap.
8
00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:21,877
Then my daughter
who was only five at the time,
9
00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,277
woke me and said: "Daddy,
Pier Paolo Pasolini is dead.
10
00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,994
The newspaper
has been calling for two hours."
11
00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,112
I called the newspaper,
12
00:01:31,320 --> 00:01:35,313
ordered space for the obituary
13
00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,353
and learned about
the terrible details.
14
00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,438
The simple news
that Pasolini had died
15
00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:46,236
obviously didn't give
enough information
16
00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:50,592
on his death and murder,
on such a dramatic ending.
17
00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,117
The word "hope"
has been erased from my vocabulary.
18
00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,753
A quarter century has gone by
since Pasolini's death.
19
00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,350
Since then a lot has been forgotten.
20
00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,120
But who really was Pasolini?
21
00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:20,557
Pier Paolo Pasolini
was a multifaceted intellectual.
22
00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,514
A writer, poet, journalist...
23
00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:28,190
An advocate, we could say,
of a philosophy
24
00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,119
that protested against
the bourgeoisie of the time.
25
00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:39,715
- Go on.
- Silence.
26
00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:45,595
Castagna, surely with all
the filmmakers you've met,
27
00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:49,190
you must have
a nice collection of anecdotes.
28
00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,870
Collection of what?
Listen to him!
29
00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,833
- I tell him to talk...
- It means stories.
30
00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,918
Anecdotes are
personal stories, do you understand?
31
00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,588
- So what do I talk about?
- About Pasolini.
32
00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:07,351
I remember one scene we did
with Pasolini in a "wheelbarrel"...
33
00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:12,714
- In a what?
- Sorry... wheelbarrow.
34
00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:19,549
Castagna,
our home viewers
35
00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,513
are surely wondering:
36
00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,030
"Who knows how many anecdotes
in the past 35 years
37
00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:30,279
this great man of cinema,
known as Enzo Castagna,
38
00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,836
must have to tell?"
So do you have a lot?
39
00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:39,353
Yes, tons. I remember
one scene with Pasolini...
40
00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,912
...that to set up the shot...
- What film was it?
41
00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,680
"The Canterbury Tales".
42
00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:51,557
He got inside a "wheelbarrel"...
I mean wheelbarrow...
43
00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:55,036
along with the camera
and lay down.
44
00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:59,950
He was filming
behind the prison.
45
00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,916
Pasolini came to Sicily
many times in his life
46
00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:05,997
but few people know
47
00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,794
he filmed scenes from
"Canterbury Tales" in Palermo.
48
00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:11,914
Who is Pasolini
to today's youth?
49
00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:16,432
Let's ask Saverio D'Amico,
a talented youth of Sicilian cinema
50
00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:18,471
and valuable collaborator
51
00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,229
for Enzo Castagna's
entertainment agency.
52
00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,955
Saverio, what do you remember
about Pier Paolo Pasolini?
53
00:04:26,840 --> 00:04:30,037
I remember what I've read
54
00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:34,756
and what I've learned
about Pasolini,
55
00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:38,839
that he was one of
the greatest filmmakers
56
00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,998
and also that he batted...
57
00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,072
...for the other team,
as they say...
58
00:04:46,280 --> 00:04:49,238
I say it that way
so I don't have to use the word.
59
00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:50,793
What do you mean?
60
00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,231
I mean that he was...
61
00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,634
He was a faggot,
62
00:04:57,840 --> 00:04:59,751
a transsexual.
63
00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,955
And that anyway...
64
00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:10,276
Within the film industry
and also outside of it,
65
00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:15,349
he was very good but
had "a wandering eye", as I call it,
66
00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,553
meaning that
when he saw a boy he liked,
67
00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:24,038
he tried his hardest
68
00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:29,394
to set up an "encounter"
with that person.
69
00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:35,550
Open up, you nasty faggot!
70
00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:47,471
You useless crap!
71
00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:49,511
Either give me what you owe me
72
00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,393
or I'll kick youand all this rubbish out.
73
00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:54,795
We've already had one death.
74
00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,230
But he was even sicker than him!
75
00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:01,638
Look what I let in here,this whole building is sick now!
76
00:06:01,840 --> 00:06:04,559
This is a warning,you faggot!
77
00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:15,151
Saverio, you previously mentioned
Pasolini's diversity.
78
00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:19,309
You probably know that in Palermo,
a derogatory word
79
00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:23,832
to say homosexual is "arruso".
80
00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:27,396
Saverio, don't you think
there's a difference
81
00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,592
between an "arruso"
and a filmmaker?
82
00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:32,711
Well, arruso...
83
00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:38,310
in the Italian language
84
00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:40,715
can be translated as "faggot"...
85
00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,639
An arruso is one thing.
86
00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:49,835
It's a little...
actually it's completely dialect.
87
00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,396
In Palermo when
we call someone an "arruso"...
88
00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,558
It's dialect from Palermo.
89
00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:00,070
But people would normally say
"you're a fag".
90
00:07:00,280 --> 00:07:04,990
But the diversity
between fag and filmmaker is
91
00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:09,514
that a filmmaker is a filmmaker
and a fag is a fag.
92
00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,439
But this guy, this Pasolini,
93
00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,393
was both things.
94
00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:20,230
He was a good filmmaker
and a good fag.
95
00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,591
Sorry that I laugh but...
96
00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,952
It's a culture that...
97
00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,475
...that I don't like.
98
00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:37,240
Everyone has their own opinion
and what mine is...
99
00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,238
is that diversity...
100
00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,598
It's a shame
because he was a good director.
101
00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:49,669
He loses points
because he was a fag.
102
00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:51,714
"Arruso".
103
00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:56,038
What does this mysterious
crude and harsh word mean?
104
00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:59,273
My love,I've never been so happy.
105
00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,876
A piece of shit like medoesn't deserve such happiness.
106
00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:06,994
You've brightened up my life.
107
00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,795
Silence, don't speak like that.
108
00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:12,272
It hurts me.
109
00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:14,950
You are an angel.
110
00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,472
The man you see is Paolo Alaimo.
111
00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:20,079
He's fifty years old.
112
00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:22,032
- Alaimo.
- Yes?
113
00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:26,119
In the neighbourhood you live in
and hang out in,
114
00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:30,108
people have said for 30 years
that you were Pasolini's lover.
115
00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:32,158
- Is that true?
- No.
116
00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,672
Alaimo, tell me the truth.
117
00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:47,951
Look into your conscience.
118
00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,391
Were you Pasolini's lover
for a few days?
119
00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:53,352
- I've never even met him.
- Swear.
120
00:08:53,560 --> 00:08:55,596
Never met him.
121
00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,516
I swear to God.
Always.
122
00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,238
- Alaimo.
- Yes?
123
00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:14,275
Do you realize that because of
this rumour about you and Pasolini,
124
00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:16,516
people call you "arruso"?
125
00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:20,989
They call me "arruso" because
the word comes from another word.
126
00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:25,432
So the word comes from another word.
127
00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:27,358
So they...
128
00:09:27,560 --> 00:09:31,633
people who...
or should I say "those" people,
129
00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:36,277
call me that word
but they mean the other word.
130
00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,996
The word comes from
our local dialect.
131
00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:44,351
Alaimo,
are you an "arruso" or not?
132
00:09:44,560 --> 00:09:47,313
So far I've never been one
133
00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:49,511
and I'm still not one.
134
00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:53,435
Because a well-hung person like me...
135
00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:57,235
I'm very talented and wise.
136
00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:00,637
- You're well what?
- I've got a big dick.
137
00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,991
What I mean is,
I think it's...
138
00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,754
The word "arruso" doesn't make sense
139
00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:10,793
because I've got a big cock,
140
00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:12,592
it's enormous.
141
00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,468
And I can let people
use my dick
142
00:10:15,680 --> 00:10:18,672
because it's a massive tool.
143
00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,155
- What is it?
- A massive tool.
144
00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:26,593
I've got it and it's big
so why would I be an "arruso"?
145
00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,268
I like women
and I always have.
146
00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:39,077
You're broke too?
147
00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:42,472
I've got an idea.
148
00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,474
I'll blow you and you blow me.
149
00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:54,514
Alaimo, can't there be
well-hung fags?
150
00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:56,438
No, no way.
151
00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,871
- There's no way?
- No, because...
152
00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,868
There's only one way
of being a fag and that's it.
153
00:11:04,680 --> 00:11:07,752
- As far as I'm concerned at least.
- What way is that?
154
00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,679
It only means one thing.
155
00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,992
Don't you know what it is?
It's when you take it up the ass.
156
00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,760
But there are also people
157
00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,997
who take it and give it.
158
00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,353
I know from experience
because I've been told.
159
00:11:27,560 --> 00:11:30,518
- Wait.
- I've heard...
160
00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,474
You said:
"I know from experience".
161
00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:35,875
Meaning you've done it?
162
00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,753
No, I've been told,
people talk.
163
00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,758
- You said "from experience".
- Yes.
164
00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:44,713
People talk and someone listens.
165
00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,354
Then they take in what they hear.
166
00:11:47,560 --> 00:11:50,393
They listen, people say it
and that's how it works.
167
00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:52,471
It's like a map.
168
00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:55,513
Mr Napoli,
169
00:11:55,680 --> 00:11:58,672
in your opinion,
170
00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,877
what relationship
did Pasolini have
171
00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,077
with this beautiful land
we call Sicily?
172
00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:10,312
Gregorio!
173
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,476
- I have to lower my arm.
- Right, say it again.
174
00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:59,438
Mr Napoli,
175
00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:01,989
can you tell our viewers
176
00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,118
what relationship
Pier Paolo Pasolini had
177
00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,989
with our beautiful island, Sicily?
178
00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,114
Pasolini's encounter...
179
00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,192
You messed up,
you stumbled.
180
00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:03,069
Pier Paolo Pasolini's relationship
with Sicily
181
00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,196
is somewhat sporadic.
182
00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,558
He came here to film
"Assembly of Love"
183
00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,234
and a few scenes
184
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:15,631
from one of his last films
"The Canterbury Tales".
185
00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,792
But I could also say
186
00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,997
that his experience with
the bright light of Sicily,
187
00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,720
the beautiful sun in Sicily,
188
00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:28,077
had a constant effect on his work,
or at least...
189
00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:33,198
This man was on Pasolini's set
30 years ago.
190
00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:34,839
What's your name?
191
00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:37,189
What?
192
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:38,389
Who?
193
00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:39,749
Who?
194
00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:42,669
Cirrincione?
Your first name?
195
00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,998
Fortunato?
Your name is Fortunato?
196
00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:55,199
Mr Cirrincione, you were on
the set with Pasolini 30 years ago.
197
00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,112
What film was it?
198
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:06,509
What?
199
00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:12,196
He was a fag.
200
00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,028
He said he wanted to screw me.
201
00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,395
I answered: "No, you won't.
202
00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:19,516
I'll do it to you."
203
00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,035
- Who?
- Him, the fag.
204
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:23,792
Who?
205
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:25,515
What?
206
00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,117
Pasolini?
207
00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:30,669
- Fag.
- What did he want from you?
208
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,038
My ass.
209
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:40,669
Who?
210
00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:44,714
Who?
211
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:46,792
The fag.
212
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,269
- Yours?
- Yes, mine.
213
00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:53,313
You're not doing that to me.
214
00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:54,999
I do those things.
215
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:59,159
I'll do it to you.
I'll screw your ass.
216
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,436
- You did it to him?
- Yes.
217
00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:03,995
- He wanted...
- To screw me.
218
00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:05,388
But you...
219
00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:10,914
I don't take it, I give it.
220
00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,917
- Because you're a man.
- I'm a man.
221
00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:26,150
I have...
You're a fag!
222
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:28,151
What do you have?
223
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:31,551
What's that?
224
00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,116
A dick for screwing.
225
00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:53,596
- Cirrincione...
- You're a fag!
226
00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,035
Cirrincione,
what happened in the end?
227
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:01,278
Nothing.
228
00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:05,877
Then he just left.
229
00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,508
- What's your name?
- Cirrincione.
230
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:11,312
- Your first name.
- Fortunato.
231
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:13,152
- Fortunato?
- Yes.
232
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:15,312
- Thanks.
- You're welcome.
233
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:19,149
Perhaps you might appreciate
some poetry I wrote
234
00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,551
and for which I apologize
to our viewers beforehand.
235
00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:26,076
It is an unpublished
look back at that event
236
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,708
and I dedicate it to your interview.
May I?
237
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:30,154
Of course.
238
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:35,353
Zavattini,to Luigi Chiarini
239
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:39,229
wept so bitterly in 1968.
240
00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,352
On the boardwalkin front of the Venice Festival,
241
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:48,640
Pier Paolo had to give uphope for his "Gospel",
242
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,429
his eyes towards the heavens,
243
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,558
filled with tears of emotion.
244
00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,031
Back then it was called criticism,
245
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,952
but should have beencalled repression.
246
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,830
And the professor,yes... Chiarini...
247
00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:13,559
found reliefin the suave ardour of Zavattini.
248
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:19,393
Ferreri wasrepudiating the uproar,
249
00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:24,509
and sent a messageto Pasolini on the opposite banks:
250
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,797
"You are welcome,you are free,
251
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,111
bring your "Teorema",on that side or here."
252
00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:35,117
And back from the false protestors,came the great Marco,
253
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,669
shouting in a hoarse voice:
254
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,434
"Look out, blondie.I'm going to waste you!"
255
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,712
The word "hope" has been erased
from my vocabulary.
18984
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