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Judge Leon Bazile: ALMIGHTY GOD

CREATED THE RACES--

WHITE, BLACK, YELLOW,

MALAY, AND RED--

AND HE PLACED THEM ON SEPARATE CONTINENTS.

AND BUT FOR THE INTERFERENCE WITH HIS ARRANGEMENT,

THERE WOULD BE NO CAUSE FOR SUCH MARRIAGES.

THE FACT THAT HE SEPARATED THE RACES

SHOWS THAT HE DID NOT INTEND FOR THE RACES TO MIX.

♪ QUIET LIGHT, SOME STILL DAY ♪

♪ I AM GOING HOME ♪

♪ IT'S NOT FAR ♪

♪ JUST CLOSE BY ♪

♪ THROUGH AN OPEN DOOR ♪

♪ WORK ALL DONE ♪

♪ CARE LAID BY... ♪

Peggy Loving: IT WAS LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT.

TO MARRY SOMEONE AND THEN HAVE TO GO THROUGH

ALL THAT THEY WENT THROUGH, IT WAS NOTHING BUT LOVE.

♪ MOTHER'S THERE EXPECTING ME ♪

♪ FATHER'S WAITING, TOO ♪

♪ LOTS OF FACES GATHERED THERE ♪

♪ ALL THE FRIENDS I KNEW. ♪

( vocalizing )

Peggy: MY MOM WAS TALL AND SKINNY,

AND THEY TEASED HER AND CALLED HER "STRINGBEAN."

( kids chattering )

Peggy: AND THEN EVENTUALLY, HE KNOCKED OFF THE "STRING"

AND HE CALLED HER "BEAN."

OUCH.

- OKAY. - HERE YOU GO.

OUCH.

MY LITTLE SOCK.

I HAVE SO MANY SOCKS.

OUCH.

( Sidney Loving babbling )

WHERE'S YOUR BOOTS, PEGGY?

- IN THE KITCHEN. - ( clanging )

- Donald Loving: YOU GOING TO PITCH ON DOWN? - Sidney: YEAH.

Mildred Loving: WE WERE MARRIED ON THE 2nd DAY OF JUNE,

AND THE POLICE CAME AFTER US THE 14th OF JULY.

IT WAS ABOUT 2:00 A.M.

AND I SAW THIS LIGHT, YOU KNOW, AND I WOKE UP

AND THERE WAS THE POLICEMAN STANDING BESIDE THE BED.

AND HE TOLD US TO GET UP, THAT WE WAS UNDER ARREST.

THEY CAME ONE NIGHT AND THEY KNOCKED

A COUPLE OF TIMES-- I HEARD THEM.

BEFORE I COULD GET UP, YOU KNOW,

THEY JUST BROKE THE DOOR AND CAME ON IN.

WHEN WE GOT UP, THEY WERE STANDING BESIDE THE BED

WITH FLASHLIGHTS.

Mildred: THEY ASKED RICHARD

WHO WAS THAT WOMAN HE WAS SLEEPING WITH.

I SAID, "I'M HIS WIFE."

THE SHERIFF SAID, "NOT HERE, YOU'RE NOT."

HE SAID, "COME ON, LET'S GO."

Ken Edwards: THEY KNEW HE WAS COMING-- SHERIFF BROOKS.

THEY HAD GOTTEN THE WORD.

HE HAD BEEN THERE SEVERAL TIMES IN THE DAYTIME

AND THEY WERE NEVER HOME.

SO HE WENT DOWN AT 4:00 IN THE MORNING.

THEY WERE THERE.

Mildred: LATER, THEY CARTED US TO BOWLING GREEN

AND LOCKED US UP.

Edwards: THAT JAIL WAS HELL.

IT HAD 16 BUNKS IN IT,

BUT IT WASN'T NO MOTEL.

WHEN SHE WAS ARRESTED,

SHE WAS PUT IN THE SMALL CELL, THE WOMAN'S CELL.

THEY HAD A SINK AND A COMMODE,

AND YOU'D GIVE THEM A LITTLE SOMETHING TO EAT THROUGH THE DOOR.

WE COULD ONLY TAKE ONE WOMAN.

Mildred: ONE AFTERNOON, THIS INMATE HAD BEEN OUT

ON THE OUTSIDE WORKING.

AND WHEN THE SHERIFF BROUGHT HIM BACK IN,

HE SAID, "I SHOULD LET YOU GO IN HERE WITH HER TONIGHT."

IT SCARED ME TO DEATH.

I MEAN, THE WAY I FEEL ABOUT IT IS

THERE'S JUST A FEW PEOPLE THAT LIVES IN THIS COMMUNITY.

THERE'S A FEW WHITE, THERE'S A FEW COLORED,

AND WE ALL-- AS WE GREW UP,

AND AS THEY GREW UP, THEY ALL HELPED ONE ANOTHER, YOU KNOW?

IT WAS ALL, AS I'D SAY, MIXED TOGETHER TO START WITH,

SO IT JUST KEPT GOING THAT WAY.

IT'S BEEN THAT WAY FOR YEARS DOWN HERE.

THERE'S A LOT OF IT DOWN HERE, BUT WE'RE THE ONLY ONES

WHO'VE BEEN BOTHERED ABOUT IT.

IT'S A LOT OF THE SAME DOWN HERE.

- Hope Ryden: IS THAT RIGHT? - YEAH. BUT SEE, IT'S JUST--

IT'S JUST SOME PEOPLE THAT DIDN'T LIKE US,

THEY JUST TALKED, SEE, AND STARTED IT ALL ROLLING.

Ryden: DO YOU KNOW ANY OTHER COUPLES

WHO ARE IN THE SAME SITUATION NOW?

YEAH, I KNOW SOME, BUT I WOULDN'T LIKE TO CALL THEIR NAMES.

- Ryden: NO. - ( both laugh )

I JUST WONDERED IF YOU DID.

YEAH, I KNOW A FEW.

I WONDER WHY THEY PICKED ON YOU, THEN.

THAT I DON'T KNOW.

I NEVER FOUND OUT IF SOMEBODY TALKED.

THE LOVINGS WERE MARRIED IN 1958 OUTSIDE OF VIRGINIA

HERE IN THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA,

BUT THEY WERE CONVICTED UNDER VIRGINIA LAW

WHICH FORBIDS ANY WHITE PERSON AND COLORED PERSON

FROM LEAVING THE STATE FOR THE PURPOSE OF MARRYING EACH OTHER

AND WITH THE INTENTION OF RETURNING.

THEY WERE SENTENCED TO A YEAR IN JAIL,

BUT THE SENTENCES WERE SUSPENDED

ON CONDITION THEY LEAVE VIRGINIA.

THE LEGAL TERM IS "MISCEGENATION,"

AND THOSE WHO SUPPORT SUCH LAWS CLAIM THEY ARE NECESSARY

IN ORDER TO PRESERVE THE PURITY OF THE RACES.

IN ALL THE FIELD OF RACE RELATIONS,

PROBABLY NOTHING IS MORE SENSITIVE

THAN THE ISSUE OF INTERMARRIAGE.

Mildred: YOU KNOW, WE WENT TO WASHINGTON TO BE MARRIED.

I GUESS THAT'S WHY WE WENT THERE.

PEOPLE HAD BEEN MIXING ALL THE TIME,

SO I DIDN'T KNOW ANY DIFFERENT.

I DIDN'T KNOW THERE WAS A LAW AGAINST IT.

YOU KNOW, THE WHITE AND COLORED WENT TO SCHOOL DIFFERENT.

THINGS LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW.

THEY COULDN'T GO IN THE SAME RESTAURANTS.

I KNEW THAT,

BUT I DIDN'T REALIZE HOW BAD IT WAS

UNTIL WE GOT MARRIED.

WE WERE UNDER $1,000 BOND.

AND HIS SISTER-- HIS SISTER

GOT A BONDING COMPANY TO GET HIM OUT.

AND THEY TOLD THE BONDING COMPANY

IF THEY TRIED TO GET ME OUT,

THAT THEY WOULD PUT HIM BACK IN JAIL.

I STAYED THERE UNTIL THURSDAY.

THEY LET ME COME HOME,

BUT I WAS UNDER MY FATHER'S RESPONSIBILITY.

I DIDN'T HAVE A BOND, BUT HE HAD TO MAKE SURE THAT I GOT BACK TO COURT.

HE WENT TO HIS PARENTS' HOME.

I WENT TO MY PARENTS' HOME.

Richard Loving: THEY HAD A TRIAL.

THEY SENTENCED US TO ONE YEAR

IN THE STATE PENITENTIARY.

THEN THEY SUSPENDED US FOR 25 YEARS

AND SAID THAT WE HAD TO LEAVE THE STATE.

BUT THE WAY I UNDERSTOOD IT, THE LAWYERS SAID

THAT WE COULD COME BACK TO VISIT WHEN WE WANTED TO.

SO THAT EASTER, WE CAME BACK AND THEY GOT US AGAIN.

Richard: WE LEFT THERE AND WENT TO D.C.,

STAYED THERE.

Mildred: BUT I DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE AWAY

FROM AROUND MY FAMILY AND FRIENDS.

WHEN I WAS IN WASHINGTON,

WELL, I JUST WANTED TO GO BACK HOME.

( music playing )

Peggy: MY DAD AND MOM LIVED

ABOUT THREE OR FOUR MILES FROM ONE ANOTHER.

THEY JUST GREW UP IN THE COMMUNITY.

HER BROTHERS WOULD PLAY MUSIC-- THE GUITAR, THE FIDDLE.

AND I GUESS THAT'S HOW THEY MET.

Mildred: WHEN WE FIRST MET, I DIDN'T LIKE HIM.

I DON'T KNOW-- HE WAS ARROGANT.

BUT I GOT TO KNOW HIM AND HE WAS A VERY NICE PERSON.

I GUESS WE DATED...

ON AND OFF A COUPLE OF YEARS BEFORE WE WERE MARRIED.

NOW THAT THEY HAVE MARRIED,

DO YOU SEE THEM AS BEING HAPPY?

THEY SEEM TO BE VERY HAPPY

EVERY TIME I SEE THEM TOGETHER OR ANYWHERE.

I'VE BEEN IN THE HOME; THEY'RE HAPPY.

AND I'VE BEEN IN THE CAR WITH THEM; THEY WERE HAPPY.

THEY SEEM TO BE VERY HAPPY.

WELL, HAS THAT CHANGED THE WAY YOU LOOK AT IT ANY?

NO, I DON'T--

I JUST LIKE THEM, THAT'S ALL.

I LIKE HER, I LIKE HIM,

HIS MOTHER, HER MOTHER AND ALL.

WELL, SUPPOSE WE BACKED UP TO WHERE THEY--

BEFORE THEY HAD GOTTEN MARRIED AGAIN.

WOULD YOU GIVE THEM THE SAME ADVICE?

WHAT WOULD YOU TELL THEM?

WELL, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER I WOULD OR NOT.

I DON'T KNOW WHETHER I'D TELL THEM OR NOT.

DID YOU ADVISE THEM NOT TO GET MARRIED AT FIRST?

NO, I DIDN'T ADVISE THEM NOT TO GET MARRIED.

I JUST TOLD HIM HE OUGHT TO--

TO, YOU KNOW, NOT TO GO UP THERE.

BUT HE SAID THAT HE WENT UP THERE AND THEY WAS MARRIED.

AND I DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT WHEN THEY GOT MARRIED.

LIVING HERE IN THIS COMMUNITY

WHERE RICHARD AND MILDRED BOTH GREW UP, RIGHT AROUND THIS AREA,

HAS YOUR LIFE BEEN ANY DIFFERENT

- SINCE THEY DID GET MARRIED? - NO. MM-MM.

WHAT IS IT LIKE BEING THE MOTHER OF A FELLOW WHO GROWS UP

AND KIND OF, AS WE ALL DO, WANTS TO GO HIS OWN WAY?

WELL, I DON'T KNOW.

( music playing )

( tires screeching )

( tires screeching )

♪ YOU WOMEN HAVE HEARD OF JALOPIES ♪

♪ YOU'VE HEARD THE NOISE THEY MAKE ♪

♪ BUT LET ME INTRODUCE MY NEW ROCKET '88 ♪

♪ YES, IT'S GREAT, JUST WON'T WAIT ♪

♪ EVERYBODY LIKES MY ROCKET '88 ♪

♪ BABY, WE'LL RIDE IN STYLE ♪

♪ MOVING ALL ALONG... ♪

( engine revving )

Peggy: THEY USED TO DRAG RACE.

AND PRETTY WELL THAT'S WHAT THEY DID.

HE WORKED ALL WEEK, BUT COME SATURDAY,

THEY WOULD GO TO THE RACETRACK.

THEY DECIDED TO GET A RACE CAR.

THE THREE GUYS, THEY WORKED ON THE CAR

AND GOT IT TOGETHER.

AND, OF COURSE, THE WOMEN JUST FOLLOWED ALONG.

♪ V-8 AND THIS MODERN DESIGN ♪

♪ BLACK CONVERTIBLE TOP AND THE GALS DON'T MIND ♪

♪ SPORTIN' WITH ME, RIDIN' ALL AROUND TOWN FOR JOY ♪

♪ BLOW YOUR HORN, BABY, BLOW! ♪

Raymond Green: WE BUILT THAT CAR

AND RAN IT ON SEVERAL DRAG STRIPS.

WITH THE CAR WE HAD 99 TROPHIES--

33 APIECE.

WE'D WIN THE MONEY PRACTICALLY EVERY SUNDAY.

IF WE DIDN'T WIN THE MONEY, WE TORE THE CAR UP

AND HAD TO WORK ON THE CAR THE NEXT WEEK,

GET IT READY FOR ANOTHER RACE.

IT WAS A GREAT RUNNING CAR.

( music continues )

Robert Pratt: MANY LIGHT-SKINNED BLACKS DECIDED TO HANG WITH RICHARD

BECAUSE HIS WHITENESS VALIDATED THEIRS.

HIS WHITENESS ASIDE, THOSE WHO KNEW HIM

DESCRIBED HIM AS A VERY WARM MAN,

VERY AFFABLE, VERY FRIENDLY,

EQUALLY COMFORTABLE IN ANY SETTING.

WHETHER HE WAS WITH A GROUP OF WHITE MEN

OR WHETHER HE WAS WITH A GROUP OF BLACK MEN,

HE COULD BLEND AND MIX WITH ANY PEOPLE.

Lewis Jeter: IN CENTRAL POINT, WE USED TO GATHER AT ONE PLACE.

IT WAS JUST A CURVE, AND PEOPLE USED TO PARK THERE

AND HAVE BEERS AND EVERYTHING.

RICHARD WAS ALWAYS THERE.

HE WAS PART OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

Man: WE JUST GREW UP ALL AS A FAMILY TOGETHER.

WE NEVER KNEW NOTHING ABOUT ALL OF THIS RACIAL STUFF

THAT THEY TALK ABOUT.

AND IF THE--

IF THE GOVERNMENT HAD LEFT THEM PEOPLE ALONE,

IT WOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN NO PROBLEM THERE.

THERE WAS NO DIFFERENCE IN THEM, YOU KNOW.

THEY WERE ALL WORKING, TRYING TO MAKE A LIVING.

AND JUST BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T GO TO THE SAME CHURCH

DIDN'T MEAN THAT THEY WEREN'T GOOD PEOPLE.

Ruthie Holliday: THE FAMILIES THEN WERE SO CLOSE.

IF YOU HAD A CROP, YOU HAD TO GET IT IN,

WELL, YOU CALLED THE NEIGHBORS TO COME OVER.

EVERYBODY WORKED WITH EVERYBODY.

BUT THAT IS JUST THE WAY LIFE WAS IN CAROLINE COUNTY.

I REMEMBER HEARING THE CHILDREN

KIND OF SNICKERING BACK AND FORTH

ABOUT THAT FAMILY MISSING--

MIXING WITH THE BLACK A LOT.

I USED TO THINK IT WAS SAD BECAUSE MY MOM HAD ALWAYS

TAUGHT US FROM BABIES, LITTLE CHILDREN,

IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING GOOD TO SAY

ABOUT SOMEONE, NOT TO SAY ANYTHING AT ALL.

THAT USED TO REALLY BOTHER ME,

SO I WOULD COME HOME AND I'D ASK MY MOM QUESTIONS.

THEY FOUND OUT THAT MY MOTHER WAS A LOVING

AND THEY USED TO WORRY ME ABOUT IT.

I WOULD ASK MOM ABOUT THAT AND SHE WOULD SAY,

"WELL, WE WERE ALWAYS TOLD WE WEREN'T ANY KIN TO THEM."

RICHARD LIVED DOWN IN THE COMMUNITY

WHERE MOST OF THE INDIANS LIVED.

I DON'T KNOW IF MILDRED HAD ANY INDIAN IN HER OR NOT.

POSSIBLY COULD HAVE.

IF THEY GOT ROMANTICALLY INVOLVED OR WHATEVER,

THEY KEPT IT TO THEMSELVES

BECAUSE EVERYBODY KNEW THAT THAT WAS A NO-NO.

THAT WAS AGAINST THE LAW.

SO I'M NOT SAYING IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

I'M SAYING THEY KEPT IT UNDER COVER.

Jeter: IT WAS JUST ABOUT EVERY WEEKEND

SOMEONE WOULD GATHER AND SOMEONE WOULD BRING OUT A MUSICAL INSTRUMENT.

THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW, YOU HAD TWO OR THREE MORE--

AND PEOPLE JUST DANCING AND HAVING A GOOD TIME.

THE SHERIFF, HE STOPPED BY ONE SATURDAY EVENING

AND HE WAS LOOKING AT DRIVER'S LICENSES.

SO SOME PEOPLE WENT FOR WHITE

AND SOME INDIAN,

BUT SOME INDIANS WENT FOR WHITE, TOO,

ON THEIR DRIVER'S LICENSE.

SO HE TORE EVERYBODY'S LICENSE UP.

AND THEN HE PARKED TO SEE

WHO WAS GOING TO DRIVE THEIR CARS WITHOUT LICENSES.

AND HE HAD THE POWER TO DO IT. HE WAS THE SHERIFF, YOU SEE.

GARNETT WAS A VERY STERN, STERN MAN

AND HE DID THINGS HIS WAY.

HE DIDN'T GET ALONG WELL WITH THE BLACK PEOPLE.

HE, IN MY OPINION,

WAS A LITTLE BIT PREJUDICE,

AND THE BLACKS KNEW HE WAS THAT WAY.

I DON'T THINK AN ORDER CAME DOWN.

WHEN HE FOUND OUT WHERE THEY LIVING,

HE WENT DOWN THERE AT 4:00 IN THE MORNING AND KNOCKED THE DOOR DOWN

AND WENT IN AND GOT THEM AND PUT THEM IN JAIL.

THEY STAYED IN JAIL UNTIL THE TRIAL.

AND JUDGE BAZILE--

THAT'S WHEN HE EVICTED THEM OUT OF THE COUNTY.

YOU KNOW, I LIVED BESIDE SHERIFF BROOKS ALL MY LIFE.

AND LET'S JUST SAY THAT HE HAD WAYS OF DOING THINGS

THAT I DIDN'T APPROVE OF.

MR. LOVING, THE COURT OF VIRGINIA

FOUND YOU GUILTY OF VIOLATING THEIR LAWS.

AND WHAT DID THEY TELL YOU YOU HAD TO DO?

WERE YOU SUPPOSED TO DIVORCE OR WHAT?

THEY SAID I HAD TO LEAVE THE STATE.

AND WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT?

WELL, I LEFT.

AND TOOK YOUR WIFE WITH YOU.

THAT'S RIGHT.

THAT'S THE WAY I'D FEEL ABOUT IT AGAIN.

IF IT'S NECESSARY, I'LL LEAVE AGAIN AND TAKE HER.

I'M NOT GOING TO DIVORCE HER.

( horns honking )

( siren wailing )

( whimpering )

( chatter )

Pratt: D.C. WAS VERY MISERABLE.

SHE FELT TOTALLY DIVORCED FROM THE WORLD.

ASIDE FROM THE FACT THAT SHE HAD BEEN BANISHED THERE

AND WAS LIVING THERE BECAUSE SOME JUDGE HAD SAID

THAT YOU CAN'T LIVE WITH YOUR HUSBAND IN VIRGINIA,

SHE NEVER REALLY ADAPTED TO CITY LIFE.

GROWING UP IN THE COUNTRY IN A RURAL AREA

WHERE SHE HAD ROOM AND HER CHILDREN HAD ROOM TO PLAY,

BEING IN THE CITY JUST WAS NOT WHAT SHE WAS ACCUSTOMED TO.

Peggy: WE CAME HOME ONE CHRISTMAS AND I WAS BORN.

WE WERE HERE IN VIRGINIA.

THEY COULD COME BACK SEPARATE;

THEY COULDN'T COME BACK TOGETHER.

BUT KNOWING THEM, THEY PROBABLY CAME BACK TOGETHER.

MY DADDY WAS VERY FIRM.

HE DIDN'T SAY MUCH,

BUT WHEN HE PUT HIS MIND TO SOMETHING,

HE WAS GOING TO DO IT.

AND WHEN THEY WANTED TO COME BACK

TO VIRGINIA FOR ANY REASON,

THEY WERE GOING TO COME BACK TOGETHER.

THEY'D JUST TAKE THAT CHANCE.

ONCE THEY GOT BACK, THEY MIGHT HAVE BEEN SHAKY

ABOUT BEING REARRESTED.

FRIENDS WOULD LET THEM KNOW IF THEY HEAR ANYTHING.

LITTLE CONVERSATIONS, AND THEY WERE KIND OF LIKE A WHISPER.

"NO, WE DON'T SUPPOSED TO BE HERE.

WE'RE HIDING."

Pratt: MY GREAT UNCLE'S HOUSE-- WE CALLED IT THE BIG HOUSE,

BUT IT WAS ACTUALLY A BOARDINGHOUSE.

THAT CERTAINLY MADE IT EASIER TO SLIP IN AND OUT UNNOTICED.

I WOULD ALWAYS KNOW WHEN MILDRED WAS IN TOWN

BECAUSE THE CHILDREN, USUALLY THE OLDEST BOY SIDNEY,

WOULD COME OVER AND WE WOULD PLAY.

AND I OFTEN PLAYED WITH SIDNEY,

JUST THE TWO OF US,

AND SOMETIMES THE OTHER YOUNGER SIBLINGS

WOULD PLAY WITH US AS WELL.

THEN I KNEW THAT MILDRED WAS THERE IN THE HOUSE

VISITING HER SISTER GARNET.

THEN LATER ON IN THE EVENINGS

WE WOULD SEE RICHARD COMING IN,

USUALLY FROM THE OTHER DIRECTION.

YOU NEVER SAW HIM OUTSIDE.

HE WAS ALWAYS INSIDE THE HOUSE.

( distant traffic blaring, children playing )

Mildred: THE CHILDREN DIDN'T HAVE ANYWHERE TO PLAY.

THEY WERE, LIKE, BEING CAGED

AND I COULDN'T STAND IT.

I COULDN'T TAKE IT.

MY OLDER SON CAME BACK AND TOLD ME

THAT DONALD HAD BEEN HIT BY A CAR.

I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.

I KNEW I HAD TO GO TO HIM,

BUT I DIDN'T KNOW IF HE WERE DEAD OR--

HE WAS SITTING UP IN THE STREET CRYING,

AND I THINK THAT WAS THE STRAW THAT BROKE THE CAMEL'S BACK.

I HAD TO GET OUT OF THERE.

I WAS SO UNHAPPY.

I WAS COMPLAINING TO MY COUSIN CONSTANTLY.

( chuckles ) SO ONE SATURDAY I GUESS SHE GOT TIRED OF IT.

SHE TOLD ME, SAID, "WRITE TO BOBBY KENNEDY.

HE'LL HELP YOU. THAT'S WHAT HE'S UP THERE FOR."

♪ HERE IN MY HEART... ♪

Male newscaster: JUST 100 YEARS AFTER LINCOLN SIGNED

THE EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION THAT FREED THE SLAVES,

200,000 PEOPLE CONVERGE ON THE NATION'S CAPITOL

TO RALLY FOR CIVIL RIGHTS.

THEY COME BY TRAIN, THEY COME BY BUS AND BY AIR.

THEY COME FROM THE NORTH, THE SOUTH, THE EAST AND WEST.

THEY COME UNITED IN ONE CAUSE:

TO URGE CONGRESS TO PASS A CIVIL RIGHTS BILL

TO END FOREVER THE BLIGHT OF RACIAL INEQUITY.

THIS GREAT THRONG WITH A CAUSE GATHERS ON THE...

( music playing )

Mildred: I WASN'T INVOLVED WITH THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT.

THE ONLY THING I KNOW IS WHAT EVERYBODY SAW ON THE NEWS.

I KNEW DR. KING WAS OUT THERE,

BUT I NEVER MET HIM.

I WOULD HAVE LOVED TO, BUT I DIDN'T.

I WASN'T IN ANYTHING CONCERNING CIVIL RIGHTS.

I WAS--

WELL, WE WERE TRYING TO GET BACK TO VIRGINIA.

THAT WAS OUR GOAL:

TO GET BACK HOME.

LOOK.

LOOK AT HIM.

LOOK AT THAT.

NOW, MOMMY, MY BOOTS.

THEY TOLD ME TO WEAR BOOTS TODAY.

WHO TOLD YOU?

ONE OF THEM WAS 12, ONE OF THEM WAS SIX.

Ryden: HOW DID YOU FIND OUT WHAT TO DO?

SHE WROTE TO-- WHO DID YOU WRITE TO?

Mildred: ROBERT KENNEDY.

Ryden: TO ROBERT KENNEDY?

- AND DID HE ANSWER? - YES.

AND HE TOLD ME TO--

HE SAID THERE WAS NOTHING HE COULD DO,

BUT FOR TO WRITE TO THE AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION.

AND I WROTE TO THEM AND I TOLD THEM WHAT HAPPENED

AND THAT MR. KENNEDY ASKED ME TO WRITE TO THEM.

I GUESS IT WAS ABOUT A WEEK, AND MR. COHEN CALLED ME

AND HE TOLD ME THAT HE WAS GOING TO TAKE THE CASE.

WELL, WHEN MR. AND MRS. LOVING

WERE HAVING THEIR PROBLEMS,

THEY WROTE TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES,

WHO WAS THEN ROBERT KENNEDY,

AND ASKED IF THE CIVIL RIGHTS BILLS

THAT WERE BEING DISCUSSED IN CONGRESS AT THAT TIME--

LET'S SEE, I GUESS IT WAS 1963--

WOULD GIVE THEM ANY RELIEF FROM THEIR PROBLEM.

AND HE WROTE BACK AND TOLD THEM THAT IT WOULD NOT,

BUT SUGGESTED THAT THEY GET IN TOUCH

WITH THE AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION.

HERE'S THE DATE, SO WE CAN BE SURE.

THAT WAS JUNE 20th, 1963, AND THEY WERE LIVING

IN WASHINGTON, D.C., AT THE TIME.

"DEAR SIR, I AM WRITING TO YOU CONCERNING A PROBLEM WE HAVE.

FIVE YEARS AGO, MY HUSBAND AND I

WERE MARRIED HERE IN THE DISTRICT.

WE THEN RETURNED TO VIRGINIA TO LIVE.

MY HUSBAND IS WHITE.

I AM PART NEGRO AND PART INDIAN.

AT THE TIME, WE DID NOT KNOW THERE WAS A LAW IN VIRGINIA

AGAINST MIXED MARRIAGES.

THEREFORE, WE WERE JAILED

AND TRIED IN THE LITTLE TOWN OF BOWLING GREEN.

WE WERE TO LEAVE THE STATE TO MAKE OUR HOME.

WE HAVE THREE CHILDREN AND CANNOT AFFORD AN ATTORNEY.

WE WROTE TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.

HE SUGGESTED THAT WE GET IN TOUCH WITH YOU FOR ADVICE.

PLEASE HELP US IF YOU CAN.

HOPE TO HEAR FROM YOU REAL SOON.

YOURS TRULY, MR. AND MRS. RICHARD LOVING."

AND IT WAS THAT SIMPLE LETTER

THAT GOT US INTO THIS NOT-SO-SIMPLE CASE.

I FEEL THAT GOD HAD A PURPOSE

IN CREATING THE RACES SEPARATELY.

I AM SO PROUD OF NEGROES WHO ARE PROUD OF BEING NEGROES.

THEY ARE WHAT GOD MADE THEM.

AND I'M PROUD OF BEING WHITE

BECAUSE I AM WHAT MY WHITE RACE HAS MADE ME.

I'M WHITE TODAY BECAUSE MY PARENTS PRACTICED SEGREGATION.

AND I WOULDN'T BE ANYTHING BUT WHITE,

AND I LOVE NEGROES WHO WOULDN'T BE ANYTHING BUT NEGRO.

( music playing )

( no audible dialogue )

Pratt: BEGINNING IN THE LATE 1800s,

AFTER EMANCIPATION

DURING THE RECONSTRUCTION ERA,

ONE SOUTHERN STATE AFTER ANOTHER

GO TO GREAT LENGTHS TO SPECIFY

WHO IS WHITE AND WHO IS NOT.

THIS BEGINS THE PROCESS OF RACIAL CLASSIFICATION.

ON INTO THE 20th CENTURY,

SOUTHERN STATES BEGAN TO TIGHTEN THAT RULE

SO THAT THEY MADE MEMBERSHIP IN THE WHITE RACE MORE EXCLUSIVE,

AND THIS BRINGS US TO THE RACIAL INTEGRITY ACT

PASSED IN THE STATE OF VIRGINIA IN 1924.

THE RULE WAS THAT IF THERE WAS A DISCERNIBLE TRACE

OF NONWHITE BLOOD,

THEN THE PERSON WAS LEGALLY CLASSIFIED AS NONWHITE,

THAT IN ORDER TO BE WHITE, ONE HAD TO BE 99.9% PURE.

WHAT VIRGINIA REFERRED TO AS A RACIAL INTEGRITY ACT

WAS MORE ACCURATELY THE WHITE SUPREMACY ACT.

Edward Ayers: BEING WHITE MEANT A LOT MORE THAN SKIN COLOR.

BEING WHITE MEANT BEING THE INHERITOR

OF THE GREEKS AND THE ROMANS

AND OF THOMAS JEFFERSON AND JAMES MADISON

AND GEORGE WASHINGTON.

BEING WHITE MEANT BEING THE PEOPLE WHO, BY GOD'S WILL,

SEEMED TO BE IN CHARGE NOT ONLY OF VIRGINIA,

NOT ONLY OF AMERICA, BUT OF THE WORLD.

IT'S HARDLY SURPRISING THAT PEOPLE WOULD WANT TO PROTECT THAT

AND THAT PEOPLE WOULD TURN IT INTO A FETISH

AND THAT PEOPLE WOULD ASSUME THAT THAT MUST BE GUARDED

WITH LAW AND VIOLENCE IF NECESSARY.

ALL A MAN WOULD HAVE TO DO

WOULD GO TO PUERTO RICO OR CUBA AND SEE.

GO TO SOUTH AMERICA.

YOU'LL SEE WHAT MIXING OF THE RACES WILL DO.

ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS GO DOWN THERE

WHERE THERE IS NO COLOR LINE,

WHERE EVERYBODY ARE MONGRELS AND HALF-BREEDS.

AS LONG AS GOD LETS ME LIVE,

MY TWO CHILDREN WILL NEVER SIT BESIDE A--

EXCUSE ME, A NIGGER IN A PUBLIC SCHOOL.

IT'LL NEVER HAPPEN.

OUR PEOPLE FEEL AND ARE CONVINCED

FROM EVIDENCE EXISTING IN ABUNDANCE,

PRINCIPALLY FROM THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA,

THAT THE MIXING OF THE RACES WILL DESTROY PUBLIC EDUCATION.

EXCUSE ME, I'D LIKE VERY MUCH TO TALK TO YOU

ABOUT SOME OF YOUR REACTIONS TO THIS EDUCATIONAL PROBLEM

HERE IN THIS COUNTY.

SHUT THE DOOR AND MAYBE WE WILL.

I DON'T WANT TO TALK TO THEM.

COULD YOU SHUT THE DOOR, PLEASE?

I NOTICED YOU WERE SITTING IN THE MEETING THIS MORNING.

I WONDER WHAT YOUR REACTIONS WERE AND WHY YOU CAME.

- I WAS INVITED TO COME. - BY WHOM?

A LADY FRIEND OF MINE WHO IS IN THE BUILDING HERE,

BY ONE OF THE SUPERVISORS, THAT'S ALL.

AND WHAT DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THIS WHOLE SITUATION?

- YOU GIVE IT. YOU DO IT. - I'LL TAKE YOUR WORD.

YEAH, I THINK THAT WE ARE VERY SATISFIED

WITH THE CONDITIONS AS THEY ALL ARE NOW

AND WE DON'T WANT A LOT OF CHANGE.

WE LIKE TO KEEP IT AS IT IS.

LET EACH PERSON STAY

ON THEIR OWN SIDE OF THE FENCE.

YOU WOULDN'T BE FOR DESEGREGATION AT ALL, THEN, WOULD YOU?

NO. I THINK SEGREGATION IS THE PROPER THING.

WHAT ABOUT THIS BUSINESS THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY

ABOUT BEING CREATED EQUAL?

WHAT'S YOUR FEELINGS ABOUT THAT?

I DON'T THINK THEY ARE.

SOME OF MY BEST FRIENDS ARE NEGROES.

IF I GOT INTO TROUBLE, I THINK THE NEGROES

WOULD COME TO ME AS QUICKLY AS ANYBODY ELSE IN THE WORLD.

I'LL GIVE YOU A LITTLE INSTANCE.

I WAS STANDING DOWN ON THE STREET

WITH A GENTLEMAN FROM ANOTHER CITY LAST SATURDAY,

AND I RECKON 15 OR 20 NEGROES PASSED AND I SPOKE TO THEM.

"GOOD MORNING, JOHN. HOW ARE YOU GETTING ALONG?"

"VERY WELL, THANK YOU, MR. WALL. GETTING ALONG FINE."

AND THAT WENT ON FOR 15 OR 20 NEGROES

IN LESS THAN 15 MINUTES.

WE-- WE LOVE OUR PEOPLE.

THE LAWS ARE SIMPLY RELICS OF SLAVERY,

AND THEY'RE MAINTAINED TO KEEP

THE COLORED PERSON DOWN AND THE WHITE PERSON UP,

AND THAT'S THE SIMPLE TRUTH OF THE CASE.

I THINK THAT IF YOU TALK TO THE AVERAGE MAN ON THE STREET,

HE WOULD TELL YOU THAT MARRIAGE

IS A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT OF MAN.

THIS IS MY PERSONAL OPINION.

I THINK THAT THE PROBLEM GOES BACK INTO YOUR BASIC BELIEFS.

AND I THINK THAT THE BASIC THING

THAT THE PEOPLE OF THE SOUTH ARE THINKING ABOUT

IS INTERMIXTURE OF THE RACES.

I DON'T SEE HOW YOU CAN KEEP INTERMIXTURE OF THE RACES

IF YOU HAVE INTEGRATION.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT IT WOULD HAPPEN IMMEDIATELY,

BUT I SAY THAT SOME OF THE LOWER-CLASS WHITE PEOPLE

WOULD PROBABLY MARRY

WITH SOME OF YOUR BETTER NEGROES PERHAPS

OR SOME OF YOUR LOWER NEGROES.

THAT WOULD, IN TIME, COME FORTH--

ONE OF THOSE WHO WOULD MARRY WITH SOME OF YOUR BETTER-CLASS WHITE PEOPLE,

YOUR FARMERS AROUND HERE, YOUR PEOPLE WHO OWN THEIR OWN FARMS.

AND THE FIRST THING YOU KNOW, WE WOULD BE A MONGREL RACE.

( music playing )

Ayers: SEGREGATION FROM THE VERY BEGINNING

WAS FUNDAMENTALLY ABOUT SEX.

IT WAS DESIGNED TO PREVENT MEN AND WOMEN

OF DIFFERENT RACES, BLACK AND WHITE,

FROM OCCUPYING THE SAME SPACES

IN WHICH THEY MIGHT BE TEMPTED.

AND SO, THE MORE INTIMATE A SPACE WAS--

A RAILROAD CAR, A PARLOR,

A RESTAURANT, A SCHOOLROOM,

THE MORE LIKELY IT WAS TO BE SEGREGATED.

IRONICALLY, THE LOVING CASE,

BEING ABOUT LOVE AND BEING ABOUT SEX,

IS ACTUALLY WHAT SEGREGATION WAS ABOUT ALL ALONG.

CHALLENGING THE ANTIMISCEGENATION LAWS

WAS THE MOST SERIOUS THREAT TO THE WHITE RACISTS

AND EVEN THOSE WHITES WHO WERE NOT RACIST

BUT WERE VERY PRO-ESTABLISHMENT.

I LOOKED AT IT AS AN UNBELIEVABLE CHALLENGE

FOR A LAWYER ONE OR TWO YEARS OUT OF LAW SCHOOL

TO BE GETTING INVOLVED IN

WHAT WAS SURE TO BE A MAJOR CIVIL RIGHTS CASE.

WE WERE VERY CAUTIOUS AT THAT TIME

AND VERY AFRAID TO HAVE THEM COME INTO VIRGINIA,

SO I MET WITH THEM AT MY OFFICE

IN THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA.

OUR BIG PROBLEM AT THAT TIME,

REALLY BIG LEGAL PROBLEM, WAS HOW TO TAKE A CASE

THAT WAS MORE THAN FIVE YEARS OLD

WHICH HAD A JUDGMENT MORE THAN FIVE YEARS OLD--

A JUDGMENT OF CONVICTION--

AND GET IT BACK INTO THE STREAM OF THE COURTS.

THAT IS, APPEAL THE JUDGMENT OF CONVICTION

WHEN IT WAS MORE THAN FIVE DAYS OLD UNDER VIRGINIA--

I BEG YOUR PARDON, FIVE YEARS OLD UNDER VIRGINIA LAW.

ANY JUDGMENT MORE THAN 60 DAYS OLD CAN'T BE APPEALED.

WE HAD THIS VERY BIG TECHNICAL PROBLEM TO OVERCOME,

AND IT WAS MONTHS AND MONTHS OF RESEARCH INVOLVED

UNTIL WE FOUND A SIMPLE, TECHNICAL WAY OF DOING IT.

IT SEEMED SIMPLE ONCE WE FOUND IT,

BUT IT WAS ACTUALLY THE DIFFICULT PART

OF THE CASE IN THE BEGINNING.

SINCE THEIR SENTENCE WAS A SUSPENDED SENTENCE,

WE FOUND LAW THAT SAID THAT THE JUDGE

OF THE ORIGINAL TRIAL COURT, JUDGE LEON BAZILE,

WHO HAD SENTENCED THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE,

STILL HAS JURISDICTION-- STILL HAD JURISDICTION OVER THE CASE.

THAT IS, ANY SUSPENDED SENTENCE

IS ALWAYS WITHIN THE BREAST OF THE COURT THAT SUSPENDED IT.

SO WE FILED A MOTION.

THAT IS, I FILED A MOTION

TO VACATE THE JUDGMENT OF CONVICTION

AND TO SET ASIDE THE SENTENCE.

THE EXTREME DANGER WAS THAT IF THE CASE WAS REOPENED,

THEY COULD HAVE BEEN PUT IN JAIL FOR FIVE YEARS.

IF YOU VACATE THE SENTENCE--

AND THEN THERE'S A GOOD POSSIBILITY

YOU CAN NEVER REACH THE CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES

BECAUSE THEY PLED GUILTY AND THEY WAIVED THOSE ISSUES.

JUDGE BAZILE FINALLY ISSUED AN ORDER

DENYING MY MOTION TO VACATE THE JUDGMENT

AND SET ASIDE THE SENTENCE.

JUDGE BAZILE, IN HIS OPINION,

HAD THE FOLLOWING THING TO SAY:

"ALMIGHTY GOD CREATED THE RACES--

WHITE, BLACK, YELLOW, MALAY, AND RED,

AND HE PLACED THEM ON SEPARATE CONTINENTS.

AND BUT FOR THE INTERFERENCE WITH HIS ARRANGEMENTS,

THERE WOULD BE NO CAUSE FOR SUCH MARRIAGES.

THE FACT THAT HE SEPARATED THE RACES

SHOWS THAT HE DID NOT INTEND THE RACES TO MIX."

THE LAWS ARE LUDICROUS. THEY'RE JUST--

NOW THIS IS A 20th-CENTURY OPINION WRITTEN IN 1963.

THIS IS NOT 1863, 1763, OR EVEN EARLY 1900s.

THIS IS 1963.

WHEN JUDGE BAZILE RENDERED HIS OPINION,

HE COULDN'T HAVE DONE US A BIGGER FAVOR

THAN THAT HORRIBLE LANGUAGE ABOUT THE RACES

ON THE SEPARATE CONTINENTS.

THE FEDERAL COURT WILL GIVE THE STATE COURTS

THE FIRST CHANCE TO INTERPRET THEIR OWN LAWS,

AND THAT'S HOW THE TWO COURTS CAN GET ALONG WITH EACH OTHER

AND EXIST IN THIS JOINT FEDERAL STATE SOCIETY.

- Man: YOU WANT TO SET UP THE SOUND? - Man #2: YEAH.

- THE CAMERA'S BACK THERE. - OUR CAMERA IS DOWN HERE.

AND IF YOU'LL JUST-- IT ISN'T SET UP YET.

- Man: WHO'S THAT? - Man #2: GRAND DRAGON OF THE KU KLUX KLAN.

( laughter )

MRS. LOVING, HOW DO YOU FEEL

ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED HERE AT COURT TODAY?

WELL, I FEEL HOPEFUL. I'M HOPEFUL.

I HOPE THE JUDGES WILL DECIDE FOR US.

WHERE ARE YOU GOING NOW?

I GUESS WE'LL GO BACK TO WASHINGTON.

YOU THINK YOU MAY GO BACK TO WASHINGTON?

MR. LOVING, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY

ABOUT WHAT WENT ON IN THE COURT TODAY?

NO, I HAVE NOTHING TO SAY.

- Reporter: THANK YOU. - THANK YOU.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

I WANT TO-- CUT, TOMMY.

I WANT TO ASK YOU...

WHAT HAPPENED IN COURT

AND WHERE YOU THINK IT'LL GO FROM HERE.

- Cohen: WHY DON'T I ASK HER TO ASK YOU THAT? - ALL RIGHT.

Cohen: THEY'RE VERY UPSET.

MR. COHEN, COULD YOU EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT JUST WENT ON--

WHAT WENT ON IN THE COURT-- LET'S TRY THAT AGAIN.

MR. COHEN, COULD YOU EXPLAIN TO ME

JUST WHAT WENT ON IN THE COURTROOM TODAY?

YES. WE HAD A HEARING IN THE LOVING CASE

AND THE JUDGE HAS LISTENED TO OUR ARGUMENT.

THEY LISTENED TO THE STATE'S ARGUMENT.

THEY'RE GOING TO CONSIDER SEVERAL ISSUES--

FIRST OF ALL, WHETHER THEY SHOULD EVEN HEAR THE CASE

AND WHETHER WE ARE PROPERLY IN THIS COURT,

OR THEY'RE GOING TO DECIDE THAT WE SHOULD PROCEED IN THE STATE COURTS

UP THROUGH APPEAL OF THE VIRGINIA SUPREME COURT

AND THEN POSSIBLY ON TO THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES.

THEY HEARD US. THEY LISTENED TO US.

THEY LISTENED TO BOTH SIDES

AND THEY'RE GOING TO LET US KNOW

JUST AS SOON AS THEY REACH A DECISION.

IF THIS COURT SHOULD DECIDE TO ABSTAIN

AND SEND IT BACK TO THE STATE,

WILL IT REMAIN PREJUDICIAL TO YOUR CASE IN ANY WAY?

WELL, WE HAVE A DECISION TO MAKE THERE.

WE MIGHT...

JUST FOLLOW US.

- YOU HAVE YOUR OWN-- YOUR FRIEND'S CAR? - UH-HUH.

NOW WHERE ARE YOU?

I KNOW WHERE ALL THE...

- NO, THAT'S NOT THAT FAR. - YES, IT IS.

Mildred: DID Y'ALL COME THROUGH BOWLING GREEN?

Cohen: NO, UH-UH.

NO, NO, IT'S ONLY ABOUT 10 MINUTES FROM HERE.

15 MINUTES IN THE CAR THAT YOU FOLLOW US.

- LET'S GO. - Reporter: NICE TO HAVE MET YOU, MRS. COHEN.

- NICE TO HAVE MET YOU. - GOOD LUCK TO YOU FOLKS.

- THANK YOU. - THANKS, BERNIE. THANKS, PHIL.

IT WOULD BE BETTER IF WE DIDN'T STAY TOGETHER.

- I MEAN, IF HE STAYED AT HIS MOTHER'S HOME-- - Cohen: CAN YOU DO THAT?

- CAN YOU STAY DOWN HERE AND STAY SEPARATELY? - Richard: YEAH.

Cohen: SEE, IF THEY'RE OUT TO BOTHER YOU,

THEY'RE NOT GOING TO MAKE THAT DISTINCTION

THAT YOU'RE STAYING SEPARATELY.

I'LL SAY THIS-- IT'S GOT TO COST YOU

A LOT OF MONEY TO MOVE UP THERE AND A LOT OF TROUBLE.

AND IF YOU DON'T MIND THE POSSIBILITY OR THE INCONVENIENCE

OF BEING IN JAIL FOR A FEW HOURS--

THAT'S WHAT IT MIGHT BE.

IT MIGHT BE A HALF-HOUR OR IT MIGHT BE FIVE OR SIX HOURS,

BUT I GIVE YOU MY WORD THAT IT COULDN'T BE ANY LONGER THAN THAT.

RIGHT, PHIL? I JUST DON'T SEE HOW IT COULD BE.

YEAH. YOU HAVE CARDS WITH BOTH OUR NUMBERS ON IT.

SO CALL AT HOME ANY TIME.

DON'T WORRY ABOUT TIME OR PLACE.

Cohen: HOW ABOUT IF THEY CAME AND ARRESTED YOU?

WOULD SOMEBODY ELSE KNOW ABOUT IT

SO THEY COULD CALL US BEFORE YOU COULD?

- YEAH. - Cohen: LEAVE OUR NUMBERS WITH YOUR FRIENDS.

- YEAH, WE JUST GAVE IT TO THEM. - Cohen: GIVE IT TO THEM.

THESE PEOPLE THAT WE STAYED CLOSE TO--

WHEN THEY COME AFTER US, THEY'LL KNOW IT, SEE?

THEY'LL NOTIFY THEM OR THEY'LL CALL Y'ALL.

Cohen: LOOK, IF YOU WANT TO STAY DOWN HERE, STICK AROUND.

AND IF ANYBODY ARRESTS YOU,

JUST HAVE THEM GET IN TOUCH WITH US AND WE'LL HOP RIGHT TO IT.

WE WON'T LET YOU STAY IN JAIL ONE MINUTE LONGER

THAN IT TAKES US TO GET DOWN HERE AND GET YOU OUT.

- OKAY? - OKAY.

- Cohen: ALL RIGHT. - Hirschkop: YOU TWO WILL BE OKAY.

- Cohen: GOOD LUCK TO YOU. - YEAH.

Hirschkop: YOU DID A GOOD JOB TODAY, DICK.

- THANK YOU. - ( laughter )

I SURE APPRECIATE WHAT Y'ALL ARE DOING.

Cohen: WELL, THAT'S ALL RIGHT.

Hirschkop: WE HAD TO COME DOWN

AND PICK UP SOME BOOKS FROM GOOCHLAND ANYHOW.

- YEAH? - ( laughter )

- OKAY, BYE. - Cohen: WE'LL SEE YOU. SO LONG.

Hirschkop: WE APPLIED FOR A TEMPORARY RESTRAINING ORDER

BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO STAY IN VIRGINIA

AND THEY WOULDN'T GET PROSECUTED AGAIN OR VIOLATED.

REMEMBER, THERE STILL WAS AN OUTSTANDING SENTENCE ON THEM

AND WE DIDN'T KNOW IT WOULD BE REVERSED OR NOT REVERSED,

AND YOU COULDN'T CHANCE GETTING THEM IN WORSE TROUBLE.

WE WANTED THE FEDERAL COURT TO STEP IN

AND AT LEAST SUSPEND THAT SENTENCE,

BUT WE COULDN'T SHOW THERE WAS IRREPARABLE INJURY

BECAUSE WE COULDN'T ADMIT THEY WERE LIVING IN VIRGINIA.

WE'D BE ADMITTING ON THE RECORD

THEY WERE VIOLATING THE COURT ORDER,

AND THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BE LIVING IN D.C.

YOU COULDN'T DEAL WITH THEM VERY WELL BY PHONE OR LETTER,

PARTICULARLY SINCE RICHARD WAS NOT VERY COMMUNICATIVE.

I MET THEM IN ALEXANDRIA.

I KNOW IT WAS A VIOLATION OF THE RULE,

BUT I REMEMBER THEY CAME TO ALEXANDRIA

AND I WENT OVER THE LAWSUIT WITH THEM.

RICHARD SAID VIRTUALLY NOTHING.

SHE WAS-- SHE SPOKE VERY LITTLE.

BUT WHEN SHE SPOKE, SHE WAS VERY ARTICULATE, MRS. LOVING.

IF YOU SAW WHAT SHE WROTE,

SHE WROTE IN A VERY NEAT HAND, IN EXCELLENT WRITING.

IT WASN'T WHAT YOU SAW OF PEOPLE IN THE SOUTH

WHO HAD BEEN SO OPPRESSED

AS THE MINORITY PEOPLE WERE IN THE SOUTH.

SHE WAS INSTANTLY LIKABLE.

I HAD A NATURAL FIRST NEGATIVE REACTION TO MR. LOVING

BECAUSE I HAD BEEN TO THE DEEP SOUTH

AND I WAS VERY SUSPICIOUS

OF PEOPLE WHO LOOKED LIKE REDNECKS.

AND, BOY, HE LOOKED LIKE A REDNECK.

HE HAD A RED NECK AND A CREW CUT.

WHAT CAME THROUGH ABOUT THE TWO OF THEM

WAS JUST-- WHAT EVERYONE SAYS--

THEY WERE VERY MUCH IN LOVE.

THIS WAS A GUY, IF YOU TOOK THE CHARACTER OF HIM,

HE WOULD HAVE LEFT HER.

HE DIDN'T NEED ALL THAT GRIEF.

HE WAS A WHITE GUY WHO WAS IN THE RULING CLASS.

IT NEVER WAS AN ISSUE. IT NEVER WAS A QUESTION.

IT NEVER WAS A POSSIBILITY.

I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN THIS TIME.

Ryden: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF YOU LOST THE CASE?

WELL, IF WE LOST, WE WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK TO WASHINGTON.

NO, IF WE LOSE IN RICHMOND, HE'S GOING TO TAKE IT TO THE SUPREME COURT.

BUT IF WE LOSE THERE, THEN WE'LL HAVE TO

MOVE BACK TO WASHINGTON THEN.

- Ryden: YEAH. - MM-HMM.

IF YOU GET IT TO THE SUPREME COURT,

I DON'T SEE HOW YOU COULD LOSE.

I DON'T THINK SO.

- I MEAN, IF YOU CAN GET IT THERE. - MM-HMM.

WELL, HE SAID-- ACTUALLY, HE SAID THAT HE WOULD TRY ANYWAY.

AT LEAST HE SAID HE COULD.

HE SAID IF WE LOSE IN RICHMOND

THAT IT WOULD GO TO THE SUPREME COURT IN OCTOBER.

Ryden: WHAT IF YOU WIN?

WILL THEY TAKE IT TO THE SUPREME COURT THEN?

Mildred: I DON'T THINK SO. I DON'T KNOW.

Man: WELL, ACTUALLY,

I'M SURE THE PUBLICITY ISN'T TOO PLEASANT.

IT'LL KIND OF WORK OUT--

IT'LL WORK OUT FOR A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE.

YES.

I HOPE SO.

YOU KNOW, BECAUSE OF THAT--

IT'S NOT SO MUCH OF ME AND RICHARD,

BECAUSE WE COULD GO AWAY, BUT IT'S THE PRINCIPLE.

IT'S THE LAW. I DON'T THINK IT'S RIGHT.

AND IF WE DO WIN, WE WILL BE HELPING A LOT OF PEOPLE.

- Ryden: YEAH. - MM-HMM.

I KNEW WE HAVE SOME ENEMIES,

BUT WE HAVE SOME FRIENDS, TOO.

SO IT REALLY DON'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE ABOUT MY ENEMIES.

- WHAT TIME DO WE HAVE TO BE OVER IN WASHINGTON? - Hirschkop: 10:00.

WELL, THE LOVINGS ARE GOING TO CALL AT 9:15.

BOY, I WISH THEY HAD A PHONE.

I TOLD THEM-- THEY CALLED ME AT HOME LAST NIGHT.

I TOLD THEM TO CALL US AT 9:15 THIS MORNING,

THAT WE'D NO DOUBT HAVE THE DECISION BY THEN.

AT THAT TIME I DIDN'T REALIZE WE COULD TRY PICKING IT UP

THIS EARLY THIS MORNING.

( paper rustling )

WANT TO SAVE THE ENVELOPE? IT'S HISTORIC.

IF YOU ASSUME, WHICH I GUESS WE HAVE TO,

THAT JUDGE LEWIS KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING--

HE'S TRYING TO TRAP US AWAY

FROM THE ISSUE OF THE STATUTE ITSELF.

I'D BET ON IT.

NO, IT DOESN'T LOOK THAT WAY.

IT LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE PENDING US TOWARDS THE STATUTE.

WELL, WHEN YOU GO BACK TO THE STATE COURT,

REMEMBER WE'RE RESERVING SOME OF THE PROCEDURAL QUESTIONS.

WE COULD ALWAYS BRING THEM TO STATE COURT.

WELL, THEY HAVE TO RAISE ALL OUR QUESTIONS

IN THE STATE COURT THIS TIME AROUND, RIGHT?

- YEAH. - ALL RIGHT.

THEN I BET THAT WHEN WE RAISE THE SENTENCE QUESTIONS,

THEY'RE JUST GOING TO FIND THE SENTENCE UNCONSTITUTIONAL

AND THEY'LL NEVER REACH THE STATUTE.

WE CAN BE IN THE STATE COURT FOR THE NEXT TWO YEARS.

THE ORDER SAYS THEY HAVE TO REACH THE STATUTE.

I KNOW WHAT IT SAYS, BUT--

WELL, IT SAYS THAT-- I READ IT VERY QUICKLY,

BUT I THOUGHT IT SAID THAT IF THE STATE COURT DIDN'T REACH THE STATUTES,

THEY'RE GOING TO COME BACK AND TAKE IT, SO I THINK YOU'RE WRONG THERE.

I THINK THEY DEFINITELY WANT TO SEE A RESOLUTION

OF THE CONSTITUTIONALITY OF THOSE STATUTES.

AND IF THE STATE SUPREME COURT OF VIRGINIA DOESN'T DO IT,

THEY'RE TELLING US THEY'RE GOING TO DO IT, WHICH IS ALL RIGHT WITH ME.

I DON'T MIND GOING THROUGH THE STATE SUPREME COURT SO LONG AS I KNOW--

I DON'T MIND-- AS LONG AS IT TAKES AND WHATEVER IT TAKES,

SO LONG AS I KNOW WE CAN EVENTUALLY GET

A RESOLUTION OF THESE STATUTES.

I THINK HE'S ABDICATING

HIS FEDERAL AUTHORITIES TO THE STATE.

WELL, I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK THERE'LL BE A RESOLUTION OF IT

AND THAT'S WHAT'S IMPORTANT.

I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING MORE

THAN A DELAY INVOLVED HERE.

WELL, LOOK, YOU CAN'T REALLY SAY.

YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT TO READ THOSE OPINIONS VERY, VERY CAREFULLY,

BECAUSE SOMETIMES THE EMPHASIS THAT YOU GET

THE FIRST TIME YOU READ IT IS NOT WHAT YOU GET LATER.

WHEN WE READ IT LATER--

I'VE READ IT 100 TIMES ALREADY, BERNIE.

I READ IT BY JUDGE COX 50 TIMES.

I READ IT 25 TIMES BY JUDGE MEYES

AND I READ IT BY ALL THE OTHER JUDGES IN MISSISSIPPI.

LANGHOFF, COHEN AND COHEN.

MAY I TELL HIM WHO IS CALLING?

- JUST A MOMENT. - ( clicks )

MRS. LOVING.

- ON EIGHT? - NINE.

- ( clicks ) - HELLO?

MRS. LOVING?

WE GOT THE DECISION IN YOUR CASE THIS MORNING,

AND THE COURT THAT WE WERE BEFORE,

THE FEDERAL DISTRICT COURT IN RICHMOND,

HAS SENT US BACK TO THE STATE COURTS

AND RETAINED JURISDICTION OF YOUR CASE

AT THE SAME TIME.

NOW THAT'S A LITTLE BIT COMPLICATED

AND I'LL SEE IF I CAN EXPLAIN IT EASILY.

THEY'VE TOLD US, THE JUDGES HAVE TOLD US,

THAT WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH

THE SUPREME COURT OF VIRGINIA FIRST

BEFORE WE CAN PROPERLY ASK THIS COURT

TO RESOLVE THE CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES INVOLVED,

THIS FEDERAL COURT THAT WE'RE IN.

BUT THIS FEDERAL COURT HAS SAID THAT

IF WE DON'T GET THE CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES RESOLVED

IN THE SUPREME COURT OF VIRGINIA,

THEN THEY ARE PROMISING THAT THEY WILL TAKE YOUR CASE

BACK IN THE FEDERAL COURT

AND HEAR THE CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES.

SO IT'S A PRETTY GOOD DECISION IN THAT WE KNOW

THAT WE'RE GOING TO GET THE ISSUE DECIDED

ONCE AND FOR ALL SOMETIME, SOMEWHERE.

NOW THAT'S BETTER THAN ANYTHING WE'VE KNOWN IN THE PAST TWO YEARS.

WE ALWAYS HAD A LITTLE WORRY

ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT WE WOULD BE ABLE

TO GET IT RESOLVED ANYWHERE,

BUT WE NOW KNOW WE CAN.

IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME.

THE COURT HAS ALSO ORDERED THAT YOU BE GRANTED BAIL

IN THE EVENT YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND ARE ARRESTED AGAIN.

THEY DIDN'T SAY THAT THEY WOULDN'T ALLOW THE STATE TO ARREST YOU,

BUT THEY DID SAY THAT IF YOU ARE TAKEN INTO CUSTODY AGAIN,

THEY ASSURE YOU THAT THE FEDERAL COURT

WILL GRANT A WRIT IN BAIL,

WHICH MEANS WE COULD GET YOU OUT OF JAIL

IN A VERY SHORT TIME,

PERHAPS A MATTER OF MINUTES OR AT MOST AN HOUR.

OKAY, SO IT'S ANOTHER LONG COURT FIGHT IN FRONT OF US

AND YOU JUST HAVE TO BE PATIENT,

BUT THE WHEELS OF JUSTICE GRIND SLOWLY.

OKAY? IS YOUR HUSBAND THERE?

MAYBE WE'LL LOSE

THE SMALL BATTLES AND WIN THE BIG WAR.

Man: THAT WOULD BE WORTH IT, WOULDN'T IT?

YES, IT WOULD.

( children chattering )

DON, DON?

GO IN THERE AND GET A SODA BOTTLE

AND RUN OVER THERE AND ASK GRANDMA TO SEND A LITTLE OIL.

OKAY.

Ryden: DOES YOUR GRANDMOTHER LIVE ACROSS THE STREET?

- MY HUSBAND'S MOTHER LIVES OVER THERE. - OH.

WHAT ARE YOUR PLANS IF YOU WIN NOW?

WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

WHERE WOULD YOU LIVE AND WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

WELL, MY HUSBAND'S FATHER, HE GAVE US AN ACRE OF LAND

RIGHT ACROSS THE ROAD THERE,

AND THAT'S WHERE WE WANT TO BUILD.

AND I WOULD BE CLOSE TO MY MOTHER

AND HE'D BE CLOSE TO HIS FAMILY.

DO YOU FEEL CLOSE TO YOUR FAMILIES?

- ARE YOU-- - YEAH, UH-HUH. VERY CLOSE.

THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD DO, YOU KNOW, IF WE WIN.

IF WE DON'T WIN, THEN WE HAVE TO LEAVE AGAIN.

I DREAD TO EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.

( music playing )

( no audible dialogue )

THEY BARKED UP THE WRONG TREE.

I GUESS THEY THOUGHT THAT THEY WERE POOR AND LOW CLASS

AS THE SHERIFF SAID THEY WERE,

THAT THEY WOULDN'T DO ANYTHING.

SO I GUESS THEY DETERMINED THAT THEY WERE GOING TO SHOW THEM

THEY MAY BE POOR AND THEY MAY BE LOW CLASS, AS HE WOULD SAY,

BUT THEY HAD DETERMINATION AND THE WILL TO COME BACK

AND DO WHAT THEY NEEDED TO DO TO BE WITH THEIR FAMILY.

SHE WAS ONLY 18 YEARS OLD OR 17 WHEN THEY GOT MARRIED,

AND RICHARD WAS A BIG, HUSKY BRICKLAYER...

BUT EVEN HE WAS UPSET.

HE KNEW THAT THE LAW WAS AGAINST HIM,

AND HE JUST WANTED ME TO GO SEE JUDGE BAZILE

AND CONVINCE JUDGE BAZILE TO LET THEM COME BACK INTO VIRGINIA.

WHEN I TOLD HIM I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS GOING TO WORK THAT WAY

AND THAT I THOUGHT THIS CASE WAS LIKELY TO GO

TO THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES,

HIS JAW ABOUT DROPPED

AND HE COULDN'T ACCEPT WHAT I WAS SAYING TO HIM.

HE JUST SAID, "CAN'T YOU JUST GO SEE JUDGE BAZILE

AND TELL HIM WE DON'T WANT TO HARM ANYBODY;

WE JUST WANT TO LIVE IN PEACE IN VIRGINIA"?

HE JUST SAID, "YOU CROSSED THE LINE WITH ME.

I'M AN AMERICAN. I HAVE A RIGHT TO BE FREE.

I HAVE A RIGHT TO CHOOSE A WIFE AND LIVE WITH THE WOMAN I LOVE.

AND YOU'VE GOT NO RIGHT TO TELL ME NO, PERIOD."

IT WAS A VERY EXCITING TIME FOR PHIL AND I...

WITH THIS RESEARCH WE WERE DOING

AND TALKING TO PEOPLE WHO HAD HANDLED

OTHER CIVIL RIGHTS CASES

AND GETTING ALL SORTS OF SUGGESTIONS.

THEY GAVE US LOTS OF SUGGESTIONS.

THE BOTTOM LINE WAS IT'S A CIVIL RIGHTS CASE

WITH A 14th AMENDMENT CASE WITH DUE PROCESS

AND EQUAL PROTECTION OF THE LAWS BEING THE MAJOR ISSUES.

ALL RIGHT, WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT CAN ONLY BE DONE TOGETHER

BY MAN AND WIFE THAT THEY CAN'T DO IN VIRGINIA?

THEY CAN'T COME VISIT HER PARENTS TOGETHER.

- Man: OR THEIR FRIENDS. - OR THEIR FRIENDS.

Hirschkop: THE CHILDREN CAN'T LIVE WITH THEM AND GO TO SCHOOL THERE.

Man: BREAKING UP THE FAMILY OUGHT TO BE

IRREPARABLE INJURY IF ANYTHING IS.

THIS IS STRICTLY A SEGREGATION PROBLEM,

AND THE SUPREME COURT HAS SAID TIME AND AGAIN

THE FEDERAL COURTS HAVE THE RIGHT TO PROTECT FEDERAL RIGHTS.

THESE ARE FEDERAL RIGHTS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

LET'S GO BACK TO THE OFFICE AND GET THIS THING ON PAPER.

Man: THEY'RE NOT EVEN THINKING OF IT AS A CIVIL RIGHTS CASE.

THEY'RE THINKING OF IT AS AN ORDINARY CRIMINAL PROSECUTION.

THIS IS THE OLD SAW TO THE STATE

IN ALL OF THESE CIVIL RIGHTS CASES.

THEY DON'T WANT TO ARGUE THE SEGREGATION.

THEY COME AND SAY, WELL, PROCEDURALLY, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT

IS HERE TO OPPRESS US AND DENY US OUR RIGHTS.

THEY NEVER WANT TO ARGUE THE INDIVIDUAL RIGHT OF THE PERSON.

THEY ALWAYS WANT TO ARGUE THE RIGHT OF THE STATE.

Cohen: THAT'S NEW PROBLEMS.

NEW PROBLEMS. NEW PROBLEMS.

WE KNEW IT WAS OBVIOUS THAT NO VIRGINIA STATE COURT

WAS GOING TO RULE IN OUR FAVOR.

WHAT JUDGE BAZILE DID WHEN HE ISSUED THAT RACIST OPINION

WAS GIVE US A CLEAR SHOT TO APPEAL

TO THE SUPREME COURT OF VIRGINIA.

WE APPEALED TO THE SUPREME COURT OF VIRGINIA

AND GOT ANOTHER TERRIBLE DECISION DENYING US RELIEF,

AND THEN WE HAD AN APPEALABLE ORDER

FROM THERE TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT.

Hirschkop: WELL, HOPE SPRINGS ETERNAL WITH CIVIL RIGHTS LAWYERS.

YOU ALWAYS THINK THERE'S A SUPREME COURT.

YOU ALWAYS KNOW THAT THE SUPREME COURT

TAKES ONE OUT OF 200-- THEN MAYBE ONE OUT OF 400 CASES.

THE ODDS OF GETTING A REVIEW IN THE SUPREME COURT

IN ANY CASE ON ANY DAY IS VERY SLIM.

Cohen: MAYBE WE WERE NAIVE, BUT WE WERE CERTAIN

THE COURT WOULD HEAR THE CASE.

"BROWN V. BOARD OF EDUCATION" HAD ALREADY BEEN DECIDED.

Hirschkop: WHEN THE SUPREME COURT GRANTED REVIEW,

WE THEN WERE FACED WITH A REALLY MAJOR BRIEF.

I WAS ONLY OUT OF LAW SCHOOL A LITTLE OVER TWO YEARS,

SO I WASN'T QUALIFIED TO BE ADMITTED TO THE SUPREME COURT.

SO ANYTHING I DID WITH THE SUPREME COURT

I HAD TO GET BERNIE COHEN TO SIGN

BECAUSE HE WAS OUT OF LAW SCHOOL MORE THAN THREE YEARS.

SO WE SPENT EXTENSIVE TIME WRITING

WHAT WOULD BE THE BEST POSSIBLE BRIEF

AND CALLED UPON ANYONE WHO WAS WILLING TO HELP.

WE WOULD PINCH OURSELVES

AND SAY, "DO WE REALIZE WHAT WE'RE DOING?

WE'RE HANDLING ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT CONSTITUTIONAL LAW CASES

EVER TO COME BEFORE THE COURT."

Hirschkop: BERNIE COHEN AND I WENT TO NEW YORK

TO MEET WITH THE LAWYERS AND BE SCHOOLED.

I WENT TO NEW YORK FIRST TO MEET ABOUT WHO WOULD ARGUE THE CASE.

WHEN YOU GET UP TO THE BIG COURT,

YOU HAD TO DEAL WITH THE NATIONAL AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION,

AND MEL WOLF WAS THE LEGAL DIRECTOR FOR MANY YEARS.

I WENT OVER IT WITH HIM.

I HAD ARGUED IN FEDERAL COURT BELOW.

I HAD ARGUED IN THE VIRGINIA SUPREME COURT.

IF ANYTHING'S INHERENT IN THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS,

IT'S THE FREEDOM OF THE INDIVIDUAL,

NOT THE FREEDOM OF THE STATE.

YOU COULD HAVE A DEMOCRACY WITHOUT FEDERALISM.

THE PROBLEM WAS HE DIDN'T WANT BERNIE TO ARGUE.

BERNIE HAD NO EXPERIENCE IN FEDERAL COURT,

AND I JUST FELT IT WASN'T GOING TO BE THAT WAY.

I HAD LEARNED FROM BILL KUNSTLER EARLIER

THAT WHEN YOU HAVE A COCOUNSEL, YOU SHARE WITH HIM.

Cohen: WE WOKE UP AT 5:00 OR 6:00 IN THE MORNING,

OR MAYBE EARLIER IF WE SLEPT AT ALL.

MY WIFE, RAE, CAME WITH US.

MY SECRETARY MARTHA DROVE THE CAR

AND WE GAVE HER THE ASSIGNMENT

OF FINDING A PARKING LOT TO PARK THE CAR

BECAUSE THAT'S ONE OF THE CHALLENGES

THAT LAWYERS WHO ARGUED BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT HAVE--

A PLACE TO PARK THE CAR.

IT WAS A WONDERFUL FEELING.

WE SAID, "WE'RE HERE AT LAST.

WE'RE JUST GOING TO HAVE TO DO OUR BEST.

WE'VE REHEARSED. WE'VE STUDIED.

WE'VE MEMORIZED. WE UNDERSTOOD THE ISSUES.

WE UNDERSTOOD THE QUESTIONS THAT WERE LIKELY TO BE ASKED."

I MUST'VE BEEN NERVOUS BECAUSE MY HANDS WERE SWEATING SO MUCH

THAT THERE WERE DRIPS OF PERSPIRATION

ON THE ROSTRUM FROM WHICH I ARGUED THE MOTION.

I FELT SORRY FOR ANYBODY WHO HAD TO COME UP THERE AFTER ME.

THEY WERE GOING TO GET SOAKED.

I HAD A MOMENT OF NERVES AND THEN I PICKED UP THE QUILL--

THEY GIVE YOU A QUILL WHEN YOU ARGUE THE FIRST TIME

IN THE SUPREME COURT-- AND PLAYED WITH THAT.

THE FUNNY PART IS WHEN I STOOD UP TO ARGUE,

I WAS AS CALM AS I'VE EVER BEEN IN MY LIFE.

IT WAS LIKE SITTING HERE TALKING TO YOU.

I JUST FELT I BELONGED RIGHT THERE.

I FELT THAT'S WHAT I HAD TRAINED FOR

AND I WAS JUST WHERE I BELONGED DOING WHAT I SHOULD DO.

Chief Justice Earl Warren: NUMBER 395.

"RICHARD PERRY LOVING ET UX., APPELLANTS

V. VIRGINIA."

Man: COUNSELS ARE PRESENT.

Chief Justice Warren: MR. HIRSCHKOP.

Cohen: MR. CHIEF JUSTICE, MAY IT PLEASE THE COURT,

I AM BERNARD S. COHEN.

I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE THE ADMISSION

OF MR. PHILLIP J. HIRSCHKOP PRO HAC VICE,

MY COCOUNSEL IN THIS MATTER.

HE IS A MEMBER OF THE BAR OF VIRGINIA.

Chief Justice Warren: YOUR MOTION IS GRANTED.

MR. HIRSCHKOP, YOU MAY PROCEED.

Hirschkop: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

YOU HAVE BEFORE YOU TODAY WHAT WE CONSIDER

THE MOST ODIOUS OF THE SEGREGATION LAWS AND THE SLAVERY LAWS.

AND OUR VIEW OF THIS LAW, WE HOPE TO CLEARLY SHOW,

IS THAT THIS IS A SLAVERY LAW.

THESE LAWS ROB THE NEGRO RACE OF THEIR DIGNITY.

THAT'S THE WORST PART OF THESE LAWS,

AND THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE MEANT TO DO--

TO HOLD THE NEGRO CLASS IN A LOWER POSITION,

A LOWER SOCIAL POSITION AND A LOWER ECONOMIC POSITION.

WE ASK THAT THE COURT CONSIDER THE FULL SPECTRUM OF THESE LAWS

AND NOT JUST THE CRIMINALITY,

BECAUSE IT'S MORE THAN A CRIMINALITY THAT'S AT POINT HERE.

THE LEGITIMACY OF CHILDREN, THE RIGHT TO INHERIT LAND,

THE MANY, MANY RIGHTS--

AND IN REACHING A DECISION, WE ASK YOU REACH IT ON THAT BASIS.

Chief Justice Warren: MR. COHEN.

Cohen: MR. CHIEF JUSTICE, MAY IT PLEASE THE COURT.

WHAT IS THE DANGER TO THE STATE OF VIRGINIA

OF INTERRACIAL MARRIAGE?

WHAT IS THE STATE OF THE DANGER

TO THE PEOPLE OF INTERRACIAL MARRIAGE?

MARRIAGE IS A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT OR LIBERTY.

AND WHETHER WE GO FURTHER AND URGE THAT THE COURT SAY

THAT THIS IS A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT OR LIBERTY

RETAINED BY THE PEOPLE

WITHIN THE MEANING OF THE 9th AMENDMENT

AND WITHIN THE MEANING OF LIBERTY

AND THE DUE PROCESS CLAUSE OF THE 14th AMENDMENT.

Justice Potter Stewart: SURELY THAT'S--

THERE'S SOME LIMIT ON THAT.

I SUPPOSE YOU WOULD AGREE THAT A STATE COULD FORBID

A MARRIAGE BETWEEN A BROTHER AND A SISTER, WOULDN'T YOU?

Chief Justice Warren: MR. McILWAINE.

McIlwaine: IT IS A MATTER OF RECORD AGREED TO BY ALL COUNSEL

DURING THE COURSE OF THIS LITIGATION

AND IN THE BRIEF THAT ONE OF THE APPELLANTS HERE

IS A WHITE PERSON WITHIN THE DEFINITION OF THE VIRGINIA LAW.

THE OTHER APPELLANT IS A COLORED PERSON

WITHIN THE DEFINITION OF THE VIRGINIA LAW.

THUS, THE COURT IS SIMPLY FACED WITH A PROPOSITION

OF WHETHER OR NOT A STATE MAY VALIDLY FORBID

THE INTERRACIAL MARRIAGE OF TWO GROUPS,

THE WHITE AND THE COLORED,

IN THE CONTEXT OF THE PRESENT STATUTE.

THE STATE HAS A NATURAL DIRECT AND VITAL INTEREST

IN MAXIMIZING THE NUMBER OF SUCCESSFUL MARRIAGES

WHICH LEAD TO STABLE HOMES AND FAMILIES

AND IN MINIMIZING THOSE WHICH DO NOT.

IT IS CLEAR FROM THE MOST RECENT AVAILABLE EVIDENCE

ON THE PSYCHOSOCIOLOGICAL ASPECT OF THIS QUESTION

THAT INTERMARRIED FAMILIES ARE SUBJECTED

TO MUCH GREATER PRESSURES AND PROBLEMS.

IT IS NOT INFREQUENT

THAT THE CHILDREN OF INTERMARRIED PARENTS

ARE REFERRED TO NOT NEARLY AS THE CHILDREN OF INTERMARRIED PARENTS,

BUT AS THE VICTIMS OF INTERMARRIED PARENTS

AND AS THE MARTYRS OF INTERMARRIED PARENTS,

AND THAT THE STATE'S PROHIBITION

OF INTERRACIAL MARRIAGE, FOR THIS REASON,

STANDS ON THE SAME FOOTING AS THE PROHIBITION

OF POLYGAMIST MARRIAGE OR INCESTUOUS MARRIAGE

OR THE PROSCRIPTION OF MINIMUM AGES AT WHICH PEOPLE MAY MARRY

AND THE PREVENTION OF THE MARRIAGE

OF PEOPLE WHO ARE MENTALLY INCOMPETENT.

Chief Justice Warren: THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE SAME FEELING

ABOUT INTERRELIGIOUS MARRIAGES,

BUT BECAUSE THAT MAY BE TRUE,

WOULD YOU THINK THAT THE STATE COULD PROHIBIT PEOPLE

FROM HAVING INTERRELIGIOUS MARRIAGES?

McIlwaine: I THINK THAT THE EVIDENCE AND SUPPORT

OF THE PROHIBITION OF INTERRACIAL MARRIAGES

IS STRONGER THAN THAT FOR THE PROHIBITION

OF INTERRELIGIOUS MARRIAGES.

Chief Justice Warren: HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT?

IS THAT BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE THAT?

MR. McILWAINE, DIDN'T WE HAVE THE SEGREGATION CASE

THAT WAS ALSO ARGUED TO US WHAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE

SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE TO THE EFFECT

THAT THE WHITES WOULD BE INJURED

BY HAVING TO GO TO SCHOOL WITH THE NEGROES?

McIlwaine: YOUR HONOR, I--

Chief Justice Warren: ISN'T THAT THE SAME ARGUMENT

YOU'RE MAKING HERE?

McIlwaine: YES, SIR, IT IS.

I THINK WHAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL DID WAS IMMORAL.

IN THE WAY THIS CASE WAS PROSECUTED,

I THINK THAT THE ARGUMENT THEY MADE WAS IMMORAL,

THAT CHILDREN FROM MIXED MARRIAGES SUFFER,

BECAUSE THEY KNEW THE WHOLE PURPOSE

OF THE STATUTE WAS TO PRESERVE RACIAL INTEGRITY.

AND MR. McILWAINE HAD AN ALTERNATIVE

TO SAY, "I CAN'T ARGUE THIS CASE.

I BELIEVE IT IS IMPROPER, IMMORAL, NOT ACCURATE."

HE PRESENTED A FALSE ARGUMENT

TO THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT

OF THIS IS REALLY TO PRESERVE THE RIGHTS OF SOME YOUNG CHILDREN,

KNOWING THAT IS NOT WHAT THE STATUTE WAS ABOUT.

Chief Justice Warren: MR. COHEN.

Cohen: THAT IS THE RIGHT OF RICHARD AND MILDRED LOVING

TO WAKE UP IN THE MORNING OR TO GO TO SLEEP AT NIGHT

KNOWING THAT THE SHERIFF WILL NOT BE KNOCKING ON THEIR DOOR

OR SHINING A LIGHT IN THEIR FACE

IN THE PRIVACY OF THEIR BEDROOM

FOR ILLICIT COHABITATION.

THE LOVINGS HAVE THE RIGHT TO GO TO SLEEP AT NIGHT

KNOWING THAT SHOULD THEY NOT AWAKE IN THE MORNING,

THEIR CHILDREN WOULD HAVE THE RIGHT

TO INHERIT FROM THEM UNDER INTESTACY.

THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE SECURE IN KNOWING

THAT IF THEY GO TO SLEEP AND DO NOT WAKE IN THE MORNING,

THAT ONE OF THEM, A SURVIVOR OF THEM,

HAS THE RIGHT TO SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS.

ALL OF THESE ARE DENIED TO THEM.

NO ONE CAN ARTICULATE IT BETTER THAN RICHARD LOVING

WHEN HE SAID TO ME, "MR. COHEN,

TELL THE COURT I LOVE MY WIFE

AND IT IS JUST UNFAIR

THAT I CAN'T LIVE WITH HER IN VIRGINIA."

MY RECOLLECTION OF THAT DAY IS TWOFOLD--

STANDING UP AND LOOKING AT CHIEF JUSTICE WARREN

AND JUSTICE BLACK AND JUSTICE HARLAN

AND JUSTICE DOUGLAS AND THE OTHER JUSTICES,

AND I THOUGHT I SAW THE FACE OF GOD.

YOU KNOW, IN A LEGAL CAREER OF 45 YEARS,

IT'S THE HEIGHT OF THE CAREER

TO STAND BEFORE THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE GIANTS.

THEY CHANGE OUR SOCIETY ENORMOUSLY.

AND THEN AFTERWARDS, A HUG FROM MY FATHER

ON THE STEPS OF THE SUPREME COURT.

WE CERTAINLY INVITED THE LOVINGS

TO COME TO HEAR THE ARGUMENT.

SHE WOULD NOT GO ALONE

AND RICHARD WASN'T GOING TO GO UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE.

WHEN RICHARD TURNED US DOWN,

I ASKED HIM IF THERE WAS ANYTHING

HE WANTED ME TO SAY TO THE COURT.

AND HE PAUSED FOR A MOMENT AND SAID,

"JUST TELL THE COURT I LOVE MY WIFE."

THEY TOLD US WE COULD COME TO THE SUPREME COURT IF WE WANTED TO,

BUT I SAID I WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND IT,

IT WAS JUST UP TO US IF WE WANT TO COME,

SO WE DIDN'T EVEN GO.

I DIDN'T WANT TO GO.

I'M NERVOUS ENOUGH NOW.

SOMEONE BURNED A CROSS AT MY MOTHER'S HOUSE.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS TO DO WITH US OR WHAT HAPPENED.

IT WAS JUST A PRANK, I GUESS.

Ryden: DO YOU THINK THAT THIS BRINGS YOU CLOSER TOGETHER?

YES, I DO, I THINK.

I GUESS.

- YOU? - YEAH, I THINK SO.

( music playing )

♪ O LORD, I'M IN YOUR CARE... ♪

Cohen: THE SUPREME COURT DECISION WOULD TAKE ANYWHERE

FROM 60 TO 90 TO 120 DAYS.

♪ EVIL CANNOT HARM ME ♪

♪ O LORD... ♪

Hirschkop: WE PURPOSEFULLY TRIED

TO KEEP THE COVERAGE OF THE CASE VERY LOW.

THE LOVINGS DID NOT WANT PUBLICITY.

THEY WERE LIVING BACK IN VIRGINIA,

BUT THEY FELT THERE MIGHT BE SOME DANGER

BECAUSE THERE WAS A LOT OF STRONG EMOTION ABOUT MIXED MARRIAGES.

♪ ALL DAY LONG I'M IN YOUR CARE ♪

♪ ALL DAY LONG... ♪

Hirschkop: I GOT A CALL

THAT RULING WOULD BE THE NEXT DAY.

Chet Huntley: CHET HUNTLEY, NBC NEWS NEW YORK.

David Brinkley: AND DAVID BRINKLEY, NBC NEWS WASHINGTON.

THE SUPREME COURT HELD TODAY

THAT MARRIAGES OF WHITES AND NEGROES ARE LEGAL

AND THAT NO STATE MAY STOP THEM.

THE DECISION WAS UNANIMOUS

AND CHIEF JUSTICE WARREN WROTE IT.

THE CASE WAS BROUGHT BY A WHITE MAN FROM VIRGINIA,

A CONSTRUCTION WORKER,

AND HIS WIFE, WHO IS PART NEGRO AND PART INDIAN.

AT ISSUE WAS AN ANTIMISCEGENATION LAW IN VIRGINIA.

AT ONE TIME, 41 STATES FORBADE INTERRACIAL MARRIAGE.

IN MORE RECENT YEARS, ALL BUT 16 HAVE REPEALED THESE LAWS.

NOW THEY WILL ALL HAVE TO GO.

CHET.

Huntley: PRIME MINISTER...

WE WERE ELATED. WE JUMPED UP AND DOWN.

WE HUGGED EACH OTHER AND HUGGED EVERYBODY IN SIGHT.

AND WE HAD TO LET THE LOVINGS KNOW.

I RECALL THEY GOT ON THE PHONE WITH US

AND WE CONGRATULATED THEM

AND THEY SAID "THANK YOU."

( music playing )

♪ IT'S A SLOW ♪

♪ SLOW TRAIN ♪

♪ BUT IT'S MOVING ON ♪

♪ I'VE GOT MY TICKET ♪

♪ DON'T, DON'T PASS ME BY ♪

♪ IF I DON'T GET ON ♪

♪ OOH, I'D BREAK RIGHT DOWN AND CRY ♪

♪ I'VE ONLY GOT ONE LIFE ♪

♪ TO LIVE ON THIS EARTH ♪

♪ WHOA, GET ME THERE ♪

♪ WON'T YOU PLEASE ♪

♪ CONDUCTOR SIR? ♪

♪ IT'S A SLOW ♪

♪ SLOW TRAIN ♪

♪ BUT IT'S MOVING ON ♪

♪ NOW EVERYBODY GETS A TICKET ♪

♪ YOU, YOU AND ME ♪

♪ IT'S UP TO YOU TO CATCH A RIDE ♪

♪ THAT'S HOW IT'S GOTTA BE ♪

♪ EVERYONE BORN, YEAH ♪

♪ HAS TO PROVE HE'S A MAN ♪

♪ MAKE IT EASY ON YOURSELF ♪

♪ FOR THERE'S NO HELPING HAND ♪

♪ IT'S A SLOW ♪

♪ SLOW TRAIN ♪

♪ BUT IT'S MOVING ON ♪

♪ IT'S A SLOW ♪

♪ SLOW TRAIN ♪

♪ BUT IT'S MOVING ON. ♪

( music playing )