Original subtitles

MAN: How does this camera look?

Is it nice?

Okay, how about this?

How about saying, "Hi, this is Frank Zappa.

"I guess... I... I guess you don't have anything better

"to do tonight, huh?"

I mean, assuming that they've flicked on the set

and they're sitting there, absorbing the rays.

Mmm-hmm.

MAN: "Well, you might as well sit back and watch Take Off, then."

All of that?

MAN: Yeah.

Oh, you don't have to say the stuff about the rays.

That's parenthetical.

(CHUCKLES SOFTLY)

Say it again? (WOMAN LAUGHS)

MAN: Um...

Something like, "Hi, this is Frank Zappa.

"I guess you don't have anything better to do tonight, huh?"

Yeah. Ready?

Hi.

This is Frank Zappa.

I guess you don't have anything better to do tonight, huh?

That's why you're watching Take Off.

Huh?

Nothing better to do, huh?

(ROCK MUSIC PLAYING)

Hello, we're talking with Frank Zappa,

a musician, filmmaker, an independent thinker,

and a personal favorite of mine,

who's been in rock music for almost two decades.

♪ Well, I'm about to get sick

♪ From watching my TV

♪ Been checking out the news Until my eyeballs fail to see...

Zappa is the leader of perhaps the roughest and farthest-out group

in the scene today, the Mothers of Invention.

♪ Is anybody's guess... ♪

And ever since 1967,

he has left an explosive trail of music

that has had one constant throughout:

biting social commentary.

You're being victimized right now.

Do you know it?

♪ That trouble coming every day

♪ No way to delay that trouble Coming every day... ♪

You have a classical background.

That intrigues me. Are you doing...

Not really. I'm just... You know?

MAN: Frank Zappa is one of the most

controversial modern composers and musicians.

WOMAN: Zappa is perhaps most famous for a style

of musical satire involving lavatorial expletives

and outrageous happenings.

Those are the same people who say,

"Yeah, he eats shit on stage and steps on baby chickens."

MAN: The distorted mirror through which we experience ourselves

and the neurotic, perverted society that man has created.

♪ On his street would take a turn... ♪

WOMAN: The guy who sat on the toilet seat,

some kind of hairy monster from the '60s.

Well, let's face it, I sit on a toilet seat, and so do you.

The only problem is that somebody took my picture while I was there.

♪ Every time I hear 'em

♪ Sayin' that there's no way to delay

♪ That trouble comin' every day... ♪

Zappa is irreverent.

Some people think he is downright offensive.

What about this suggestion?

But I guarantee you this, he absolutely will not bore you

and he very well may surprise you.

Well, hello.

Fuck the union.

Well, what does it all add up to?

What is Frank Zappa about?

Well, I don't think that anybody has ever seen the real Frank Zappa,

because being interviewed is one of the most abnormal things

that you can do to somebody else.

It's two steps removed from the Inquisition.

(MUSICAL STATIC CRACKLING)

FEMALE INTERVIEWER: All right. Oh, are you rolling?

MAN 1: Uh, yep. MAN 2: What?

You okay? We can start? Okay.

It seems that, uh, the business thing

is usually the thing that drags most artists down,

but I hear you're quite a great businessman.

Well, how have you managed to survive so long?

Well, it is just a matter... It's a matter of survival

more than, uh... Um, success.

I have survived for 17 years.

Successfully? Survived?

I'm still in the business, that's something.

Are you happy?

Oh, sure. I love what I'm doing.

I have the best job in the world.

If you had to define your job, how would you define it?

Uh, I'm an entertainer.

(INTERVIEWER LAUGHS)

Pure and simple.

Right. Mmm-hmm.

Do you think the kind of entertainment

that people are craving now is much different

than it was when you first emerged?

No. I don't think so.

There's several different kinds of people who listen to what we do.

You can't please 'em all.

I mean, there are some people that only like the earliest albums,

and they think they're really true fans,

but actually they're just fucked, you know?

They're just these snotty little people

who don't really understand what's going on.

These are the people who know everything they know

about me from Rolling Stone magazine.

People just crave those early albums

and don't know anything about what we're doing today.

Does that upset you? Obviously, it's...

Well, I hate to see anybody with a closed mind on any topic.

So, I just feel sorry that they're missing out on a lot of good stuff

that's happened since 1967.

(DISCORDANT NOTES AND RHYTHMS PLAYING)

ZAPPA: Your mothers and fathers are all drinking beer...

Watching...

They're watching Roller Derby, and then they change the channel.

And then they see you guys on the floor,

and they say, "Oh, boy, they're really sick."

I think I might be calling you something that most of America wouldn't call you.

They'd look upon you as an exploiter.

Why an exploiter?

An exploiter of a... Of a... Of a revolution...

Someone hoping to sell tickets to a concert

on the basis of a social revolution.

Did we ever advertise that we were going to promote a revolution,

display a revolution, discuss a revolution,

or have anything to do with a revolution at a concert?

In many ways, you epitomize the revolution.

Well, that has nothing to do with the means

by which we advertise a concert.

We advertise that we're coming there to play.

The word gets around.

(ROCK MUSIC PLAYING)

♪ Plastic people

♪ You gotta go

♪ Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

♪ Plastic people

♪ You gotta go... ♪

(MUSIC STOPS)

Hey, that sounds like shit.

Frank, a few questions that we'd like to ask you this evening

come from high school students, uh, in southeast Pennsylvania.

And the first question that we'd like to ask you is,

uh, how did you start out in the music business,

and how old were you when you first got started?

Well, the first time I ever got paid for playing music

was when I was 15.

And I started off as a drummer,

and before I actually had a drum set, I used to play, um...

I was rehearsing with this rhythm and blues band.

We used to rehearse over at this preacher's house,

and since I didn't have any drums at all,

uh, I had to borrow two pots from the kitchen,

and I used to put them between my legs, like bongos,

and play on them with the drumsticks,

and that's how I started off.

FEMALE INTERVIEWER: I was reading about the first time you ever

composed a piece of music.

And I don't know if it was really a piece of music,

but you actually went and you ruled out the way it should look,

and you started drawing the notes on the page...

Mmm-hmm. That was a pretty great story.

Well... What inspired you to do that?

I always thought music looked nice on paper,

and since I had a kind of interest in art

when I was a kid, I could draw pretty good.

I used to draw dollar bills and things like that.

They were the wrong color, so I couldn't pass 'em,

'cause all I had was pencils and white paper.

You know, I couldn't get the green right.

But, uh... (LAUGHS)

I figured, well, if I could just draw those things on the paper,

then you hand it to a musician,

and a musician knows how to read it,

and then he can play it, so that's what I did.

And then I started drawing music.

I hadn't the faintest idea what it sounded like.

(LAUGHS) So the music came before the lyrics.

Oh, yeah. I didn't write a rock-and-roll song

until I was about 21 or 22 years old.

Or any song with any lyrics to it.

And prior to that time, the only thing that I was writing

was chamber music and orchestra music.

I started when I was 14.

STEVE ALLEN: You play a bicycle?

I... Yeah.

Are you in the musician's union?

Uh, no.

Do you play any other musical instrument?

Anything more conventional, perhaps.

Guitar, vibes, bass and drums.

How long have you been playing bike, uh, Frank?

(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)

About two weeks.

(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)

He probably was selling insurance or something,

and he thought, "What's something real jerky

"that'll get me on The Steve Allen Show?"

Playing bicycle. What could be sillier than that?

And he did it, and here we are.

That's probably how it happened.

You really only been playing two weeks?

Yes.

What do you do ordinarily, besides this?

I'm a composer. Ah!

Now, the whole idea that we're going to, uh, do here

in this improvised concerto for two bicycles,

a pre-recorded tape, and the musicians in the back,

is that you're supposed to express yourself freely,

without any kind of, uh...

You have to let your front down and...

(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)

(ELECTRONIC MUSIC PLAYING)

(MUSIC STOPS) All right.

Now, the tape is pre-recorded electric noises that, uh, I stuck together.

But now the... The way we work this is,

when the man in the control booth feels moved

to add his electronic part to our work here,

he will throw a little switch, which just lets some of this noise through,

and then I requested the musicians that,

if they feel so moved, make any noise possible on their instrument.

No... Try to refrain from musical tones.

And, in fact... (AUDIENCE LAUGHING)

They won't have any trouble with that order.

(SCREECHING, BLEATING, TOOTING)

(CLATTERING)

(BLEATING, TOOTING)

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

MAN: Bravo!

I must say that I am always in favor of enlarging the horizons,

at least in peering anxiously beyond the horizons

of any field of human endeavor or interest,

and, therefore, I, uh, congratulate you on your farsightedness.

(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)

And as for your music, don't ever do it around here again.

Some people like to be a carpenter, you know.

They're interested in working with their hands,

or they... Or they're interested in electronics.

They like to solder wires together.

Or they're artists, or they're something.

That's their field of interest.

Unfortunately, I like to play music.

Now, when you want to play music

and you want to earn a living from playing music,

you have to work under the conditions

that the environment imposes on you.

They don't make it easy for you to be a musician.

They don't, uh...

In the United States especially,

musicians are generally regarded as sort of

useless adjuncts to the society,

unless they do something creative like

write a Coca-Cola jingle, and then they'll be accepted.

But musicians usually are regarded

as sort of the scum of the earth,

and so, if you want to, uh, be a musician,

(TELEPHONE RINGS)

you just have to realize before you start

that nobody is really gonna care.

Wait a minute. It's time to hype an album.

TALK HOST: Oh, okay, go ahead.

This particular project has been very expensive.

This is our third album. Can you see it?

Have you got a picture of it, so we can all see it?

ZAPPA: It's called We're Only in It for the Money.

(ROCK MUSIC PLAYING)

(SONG PLAYING)

♪ We are the other people We are the other people

♪ We are the other people

♪ You're the other people, too

♪ Found a way to get to you

♪ Do you think that I'm crazy

♪ Out of my mind?

♪ Do you think that I creep in the night

♪ And sleep in a phone booth?

♪ Let me take a minute to tell you my plan

♪ Let me take a minute and tell who I am

♪ If it doesn't show, think you better know

♪ I'm another person... ♪

All of a sudden, your music is selling and making a lot of money.

You dig the bread?

I think that it's very pleasant,

but I'd like to see some of it.

You're not getting any of it? (AUDIENCE LAUGHING)

Well, it seems to take a long time getting there, you know?

Record companies have a peculiar way of making sure

that your expenses always exceed your profits.

Oh, it's very...

You know how they do that, don't you?

Yeah, I know how they do that.

And don't you get a feeling that now,

with your records moving up in the charts,

you're moving into the establishment very much?

Oh, I don't know.

I've been hearing that.

Do I look like I'm moving into the establishment very much?

Before that, you never got your music

heard by anybody, isn't that correct?

Absolutely true. Okay.

Nobody cared. Nobody cared.

And now... And they still don't care,

but they pay for it. Right.

Well, you know who's buying the albums, don't you?

Yes, I do. I've examined my market rather thoroughly.

And who's buying it?

That's none of your business. Okay.

(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)

But then, isn't it... The minute you look at you,

don't you get a feeling that you're part of the hippie establishment?

Just because of the looks. Maybe.

I'm not talking about what you say or do, or how you play.

You're very packaging oriented, aren't you?

Yeah. I think everybody is, to a degree.

That you look, when somebody sees you for the first time,

as part of the hippie establishment.

Or worse. Or worse, right?

Yeah. Yeah. (AUDIENCE LAUGHING)

All right, let me ask you this, Frank.

You want to be a serious musician, I assume.

I've always wanted to be a serious musician.

And where are you going from here,

besides the bizarre that you're doing at this point?

I mean, where are you going to go from here,

and what do you want to achieve, at this point now?

Well, I think one thing that I'd like to do

is to not work.

Not work. Yes.

In any field? Not write?

For a while.

I'd like to write, but that's not work.

Meaning composing isn't working.

No.

Well, isn't that what you're going to do for a livelihood, eventually?

People don't compose for a livelihood,

especially in the United States.

(PLAYING)

The composition end of, uh, my musical experience

started in high school,

when I heard an album by Edgard Varese.

I said, "Boy, that sounds great.

"I have to write some of that."

I also got ahold of an album called The Rite of Spring.

It was on a little cheapo label.

Little $1.98 thing.

And that excited me, too.

I thought, "Boy, if anybody could make a missing link

"between Edgard Varese and Igor Stravinsky, that'd be pretty nifty."

And then somebody turned me on to an album of music

by Anton Webern, and I said, "Wow!

"If anybody could get a missing link

"between Igor Stravinsky, Anton Webern,

"and Edgard Varese, that'd be really spiffy."

Then I heard what some of the stuff sounded like that I'd been writing,

and it was so ugly that I decided to go backwards

and get into the melodic area again.

And then people started telling me that my melodies were ugly, so...

I guess I'm successful.

(SPEAKING FRENCH)

And bang, here we are with the Mothers of Invention,

so now it's going to be a bit special.

It's an American pop music band which is connected with pop in a certain way,

by jazz, rhythm 'n' blues and blues.

But their leader Frank Zappa that you'll see later on and who is noticeable,

is interested in contemporary music,

and while their stage attitude might shock, it matches very well their music.

(MELODY, RHYTHM AND VOCALIZATIONS PLAYING)

(VOCALIZING IN HIGH-PITCHED TONES)

(SHOUTS)

(RHYTHM CONTINUES)

(SHOUTS)

(RHYTHM CONTINUES)

(MELODIC GROANING)

(RHYTHM CONTINUES, ZAPPA COUNTS SILENTLY)

(VOCALIZATIONS STOP)

(BAND PLAYING DISCORDANT ROCK MUSIC)

(TEMPO SLOWS)

(SPEAKING DANISH)

Eccentric.

It's the new style.

In 20 years this music is going to be classical.

You cannot define his music. What he does is anti-music.

How to define his music?

He doesn't give a fuck about the establishment.

When you founded your record producing company,

it was more or less a reaction to

censorship problems with the big companies...

Yeah, MGM. MGM.

Because they had been actually tampering with my...

I would finish an album and give them the tapes,

and they would take the tapes into another secret room

and cut things out of it. (INTERVIEWER SCOFFS)

You know. That's what happened to the

We're Only in It for the Money album.

(CLEARS THROAT) To give you an example

of what censorship was like at this company,

one of the lines that they cut out,

it took me years to find out why this line was removed.

But in the song Let's Make the Water Turn Black,

there's a line that says, "And I still remember Mama,

"with her apron and her pad

"feeding all the boys at Ed's Cafe."

And this is a song about these two boys

in this town that I knew, and it's...

Their mother was a waitress in a cafe.

And I couldn't understand why they took this line out.

Two years later, in hushed whispers,

an executive from the company told me

that the pad was supposed to be a sanitary napkin.

(INTERVIEWER LAUGHS) And they were upset

that there was a reference to such a device in this album.

And so they told one of the engineers at their company

to remove the line.

(INTERVIEWER MUTTERS)

I heard that the professor at the Wayne University in Detroit

has done a study of profanity in the English language,

and he has discovered that, uh, statistically,

the three most popular words in the English language,

especially in the United States, are,

"Uh," "Uh," and "Uh."

And, uh... (INTERVIEWER LAUGHS)

I'll save you the trouble of pushing that button upstairs.

And, uh, I think it's amazing that so many people

ascribe magical properties to these words.

Don't you think, in a way, Frank, that it takes...

It takes a lively sense of guilt to make sin fun or enjoyable,

and society decides for itself what will be sinful?

Yeah, well, the worst part of all this is

while society is being duped by all these, uh, maneuvers,

they have so little chance of escaping that cycle, you know.

Just can't get out of it.

They'll just keep on being fooled.

If you talk to someone on the TV, um,

this isn't only the person Frank Zappa talking there,

but for the audience at least,

it associates the record company owner Frank Zappa,

the Mother of Invention leader Frank Zappa,

the man perhaps who's interesting...

Interested to promote his records.

What other images are there?

There might be a couple people who think of me as a composer.

INTERVIEWER: Mmm-hmm.

An isolated minority perhaps.

Some people think that I'm, uh, some sort of political rebel.

Isn't it strange the fantasies that people have?

(CHUCKLES SOFTLY)

You had one very negative experience in Berlin...

Yes, I did.

Could you perhaps tell about that?

Yes.

We arrived in Berlin, and we set up our equipment

at the Sportpalast.

And some students came over there, and they said,

"We would like to have you help us with a political action."

And they wanted to set fire to the allied command center.

And I said, "I don't think that is good mental health."

The minute we came onstage, about 200 students got up

and they were waving red banners and they were shouting,

"Ho-Ho-Ho Chi Minh."

And they're blowing horns, and they were throwing things on the stage,

and they were calling us "The Mothers of Reaction,"

and they tried to ruin the concert.

And a few hundred people were coming toward the stage,

so I increased the volume of the music.

And this noise was so loud and so ugly

that it was actually pushing them back.

It was like a science fiction story.

Meanwhile, there's all the other

thousands of people who are sitting there looking around.

They didn't know whether it was part of the show

that we had put together. (INTERVIEWER LAUGHS)

They thought it was, you know, something that we might do.

(MUSIC STOPS)

There were reports that you called these students fascists and...

I did. Yeah.

Because I think that there's definitely a fascistic element,

not only in the left wing in Germany, but in the United States, too.

Any sort of political ideology that doesn't allow for the rights,

and doesn't take into consideration

the differences that people have is wrong.

I won't go for it.

I don't care what kind of label you stick on it.

(PIANO PLAYING GENTLE MUSIC)

♪ This town, this town

♪ Is a sealed tuna sandwich

♪ Sealed tuna sandwich

♪ With the wrapper glued... ♪

(SINGING SOFTLY)

ZAPPA: There's this piece that I had written

over a period of years while touring with The Mothers.

It's called 200 Motels, and the reason it's called 200 Motels

is because all the sketches were done either in airports

or in the hotel rooms or on the planes

or just traveling around, so it's like a musical diary.

It's a mixed media presentation,

a combination of both film and opera, a television show,

a rock-and-roll concert, various different elements

that all tells a story of when you go on the road, it makes you crazy.

This starts off with a...

(CLEARS THROAT)

Sort of a quiet string and piano background

with the strings divided into many parts.

Then we have the full-fledged version of The Girl's Dream,

which begins with the sopranos and altos

blowing bubbles with a straw into a paper cup

in this area A here.

And the narrator, who might possibly be the conductor...

You know, it'd be funny to have

the conductor saying these lines.

He says, "The girl wants to fix him some broth."

Hot broth.

MEN: Hot dog broth?

♪ Hot dog debris

MAN: How do you like it?

♪ Dog breath dog broth

(CHORUS) ♪ Dog breath broth

And the chorus comes in and goes...

♪ Doo-wee-oo, tinselcock, my baby ♪

And then she says, "Would you like some broth?"

And the narrator says, "Some nice soup."

And she goes, "Some hot broth?"

And the chorus goes, "Yum," and snaps their fingers,

and then they hum.

And he says, "Small dogs in it."

And the chorus goes, "Doggies?"

And she goes, "Hmm? Do ya?"

Then there's a fanfare where the whole chorus screams...

(CHORUS) ♪ Tinselcock ♪

(BAND PLAYING FANFARE)

(WOMAN VOCALIZING)

(MUSIC FADES)

Blindfolds in place, please.

Yes, sir. Here we go.

WALLY: Are they securely in place? Yes, secure, secure.

WALLY: All right, mystery challenger,

will you enter and sign in please?

(AUDIENCE CHEERING)

WALLY: Primo Carnera.

Ole!

Ole!

Ole! Ole!

Are you in the arts?

Yes.

Is there anything musical about your work?

Some people think so.

(AUDIENCE LAUGHING AND APPLAUDING)

Then are you on the stage?

Yes.

A special kind of stage.

MAN: You mean music stage. Yes.

Are you... Are you also a composer?

Yes.

WALLY: Arlene?

Are you part of a group?

Yes.

WALLY: Soupy. SOUPY: Oh!

Do you have a mustache?

Yes. SOUPY: You Frank Zappa?

Yes. WALLY: Yes!

(AUDIENCE CHEERING)

WALLY: Good boy, Soup! Yeah.

Good for you, Soupy! Very good!

Yeah! That's right.

WALLY: Attaboy, Soup! Two Franks.

Tell us about the movie, Frank,

that you've been involved with.

We just finished a film called 200 Motels.

It's the first feature film to be shot on videotape.

And we used four cameras, shot it in seven days

at Pinewood Studios in England, and it was transferred

to 35 mm film by a company called Vidtronics

that has a process that takes the normal TV line,

which is straight, and makes it go wiggly like that,

and they interlock, and the result is, on film,

it looks like a 35 mm negative.

You are Volman.

See, but you're getting Martin back there and everybody.

You're waking them all up.

Well, you may call me Rance Muhammitz.

It took four years to write the orchestra music.

It took about two and a half or three weeks to write the script.

It took, uh, 10 days to rehearse it,

seven days to shoot it, 11 days for videotape editing,

and three months for film editing,

and the rest of the time was negative cutting

and transfer... WALLY: And, you know,

talking about all that time, we've ran out, Frank.

So, why don't you stay with us, and I'll say

we'll continue right after this word.

(APPLAUSE)

(ROCK MUSIC PLAYING)

♪ Ooh, the way you love me, lady

♪ I get so hard now I could die

♪ Ooh, the way you love me, sugar

♪ I get so hard now I could die

♪ Open up your pocketbook Get another quarter out

♪ Drop it in the meter, mama And try me on for size ♪

(ROCK MUSIC CONTINUES)

MALE REPORTER: As far as anyone here can remember,

this is the first time anything of this sort

has ever happened at the Albert Hall.

5,000 or so fans were booked for the Frank Zappa concert

with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra.

Then the Albert Hall management got a copy of his script

from his agent who'd hired the hall.

MALE INTERVIEWER: You've had bookings

for pop concerts in the Albert Hall before,

surely you must have learned to expect this type of thing.

Yes, I think it's a little more than a...

A little more than a pop concert, you see.

This was booked as a concert, and it was only after that

that we were told that it was all part of a film with a script,

in addition to the songs and the music.

But who are you trying to protect by canceling the concert?

Oh, the reputation of the hall, I suppose.

Anybody who might come thinking that they're going to hear

a concert with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra,

our seat holders.

I don't see why the Albert Hall

would need a script in the first place,

because we weren't doing a play,

we were doing an orchestra and group concert.

And we gave them a copy of the lyrics in their original form,

along with a copy of the lyrics

as we would amend them to remove any objectionable words.

And then we found out that one of the things

that they were complaining about was a line

in one of the orchestra pieces where somebody says,

"You know what kind of a girl works in a boutique?

"The kind of a girl with a sister

"who wears a brassiere to a pop festival."

Now, that was one of the things

that they objected to in the text.

And so, you know, we said, "We'll take the 'brassiere' out

"if that offends you," you know.

Or maybe it was "pop festival" that would offend them.

But we gave them two sets of lyrics,

and they got a choice to choose between.

MALE INTERVIEWER: Do you think there was anything

in your piece that the average person in Britain today

would consider obscene?

No.

Do you think people are still as hung up hearing dirty words as they were

when you first started saying them?

Well, first of all, there is no such thing as a dirty word.

I... Here's my stock line about that.

There is no word,

nor any sound that you can make with your mouth,

that is so powerful that it will condemn you

to the lake of fire at the time when you hear it.

Dirty words don't exist.

This is a fantasy that is manufactured

by religious fanatics and government organizations

to keep people stupid.

Any word that gets the point across is a good word.

If you want to tell somebody to get fucked,

that's the best way to tell them.

You know, that does the job.

And I'm interested in getting the point across fast,

and so I use my native language

to the utmost of its, uh, capabilities.

It's got great things in it.

I like the American language.

(HUMMING)

♪ Penis dimension

♪ Penis dimension

♪ Penis dimension is worrying me

♪ I can't hardly sleep at night

♪ 'Cause of penis dimension

(TEMPO INCREASES)

♪ Do you worry?

♪ Do you worry a lot?

♪ Do you worry?

♪ Do you worry and moan

♪ That the size of your cock

♪ Is not monstrous enough?

♪ It's your penis dimension ♪

MALE INTERVIEWER: Sometimes when... To see you in action

or see the group in action,

gives an impression of being very well-rehearsed,

very, very well-written.

Are there no improvisations at all in the concert?

Oh, there's plenty of improvisation in a concert,

but what you see as being well-rehearsed

is the structure that allows that improvisation to occur

within specified time periods during the show.

And that improvisation includes not only instrumental solos,

but also dialogue that can be inserted

and different vocal things that can be done during a show.

Or also the sequence of events in a show.

That's all subject to change from night to night.

But the blocks of material, each song is pretty thoroughly rehearsed.

I don't like to go out onstage and slop around.

(HUMMING, PITCH WARBLING)

(DRUM JOINS IN SOFTLY)

(HUMMING CONTINUES)

(CACKLING LOUDLY)

♪ The air

♪ Escaping from your pits

♪ The hair escaping from my teeth

♪ From you

♪ My hands are gripping but they're slipping

♪ And they're dripping 'cause I'm tripping

♪ I got busted... ♪

MALE INTERVIEWER: You're mainly the boss.

ZAPPA: Well, I don't like to think of myself as a boss.

You know, that sounds snotty.

In regards to the group, I function in the same way

that a conductor of a symphony orchestra functions,

with the slight difference that I'm also the author

of the musical material that's being performed.

But if I direct the group, it has nothing to do with, uh,

you know, imposing my will upon them.

It's like a referee at a sports match,

where I will decide what the balance

between the instruments is, and who's going to play what,

when they come in and so forth.

It helps to keep the material organized.

The Bee Gees!

♪ Won't you be

(WARBLING VOCALIZATIONS)

(CROWD CHEERING)

♪ Hear my

(WARBLING VOCALIZATIONS)

♪ Plea ♪

(BAND PLAYING UPBEAT MUSIC)

MALE INTERVIEWER: Do any or has any of your band members

throughout the years used drugs,

and how do you control your band members?

Do you have a tight rein on them as far as drug use?

When a person, uh, takes the job in the band,

they understand that what they do in their private lives

is their business, but if they're on the road,

they are representing me, they're representing my music,

and they're representing the need for the audience

to get entertainment on time.

That means you don't go to jail

while you're on the road, okay?

And so I ask them not to use drugs.

If they want to do it when they get home, fine,

but when they're on the road, please don't do it.

Because it's... Aside from the chemical damage,

there's the legal risk that somebody's gonna take their freedom away,

and I'm gonna be sitting there going, "Where's the drummer?"

You know?

I don't want any of that.

And I have fired people for using drugs.

MALE INTERVIEWER: What was your initial reaction to drugs? I mean...

Well...

I've never taken any acid.

I've smoked about 10 joints over a period of nine years.

They gave me a sore throat and made me sleepy.

I've not had any cosmic revelations.

I don't feel any closer or farther away

from the center of cosmic consciousness

because of the use of drugs.

Anything else that I put in my body,

aside from peanut butter and coffee, is by prescription.

The closest I get to heavy drug use is when I'm on the road

and I take penicillin because I get the clap.

That's it.

MALE INTERVIEWER: "To many people, Zappa has often seemed to be

"a force of cultural darkness, bearded and gross and filthy,

"entirely obscene, a Mephistophelian figure

"serving as a lone brutal reminder of music's potential

"for invoking chaos and destruction."

That's from Time in October 1969.

"By any standard, he was quite outstandingly ugly."

And finally, "I was never a hippie.

"Always a freak, but never a hippie."

Frank Zappa on Frank Zappa.

Well, Frank, during the past few days,

I've been reading some of the things

that you've said about groupies.

And you've said quite a lot.

Well, I think that it was about time that somebody did

start discussing groupies, because prior to that time,

it was a sociological phenomenon

that it existed in the pop world,

it's been existing for years and years,

and nobody even said anything about it.

And I was the first one to put it in print.

Well, can I just quote what you did say?

You said, "They make the ultimate gesture of worship,

"human sacrifice." That's...

(LAUGHTER, APPLAUSE)

We've been a program of ill repute,

but in this regard, like, Monday Conference,

it wouldn't be as male sexist as that.

ZAPPA: I'm not... "Gesture of worship"? "Human sacrifice"?

But that is exactly what happens.

And it's all right? So all you have to do

is describe what's happening.

I'm describing a phenomenon. Why should you call it sexist?

You said it's also... It's one of the most amazingly

beautiful products of the sexual revolution.

Why "beautiful"?

Well, you'd have to go on the road and check it out a few times.

(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)

(WHISTLING, CHEERING)

(SPEAKING SWEDISH)

Welcome everyone

to this year's final edition of Opopoppa

here at Skansen Solliden.

Taking the lead of this gang, we have a gentleman

who variously has been called a musician, a critic,

he has also been called a spokesman of a lost generation.

He is called seducer, he is called freak,

perverted genius and businessman.

I am talking about Frank Zappa and The Mothers of Invention.

(CROWD CHEERING)

(COUNTS SILENTLY)

(ROCK MUSIC PLAYING)

♪ The mystery man came over

♪ And he said I'm outta sight

♪ He said for a nominal service charge

♪ I could reach nirvana tonight

♪ If I was ready, willing and able

♪ To pay him his regular fee

♪ He would drop all the rest Of his pressing affairs

♪ And devote his attention to me

♪ But I said

♪ Look here, brother

♪ Who you jivin' with that Cosmik Debris?

♪ Who you jivin' with that Cosmik Debris?

♪ Look here, brother

♪ Don't you waste your time on me ♪

MALE INTERVIEWER: Is commercial success important to you, rather than

making enough money to do what you want to do?

Well, commercial success represents two things.

One, it represents dollars and cents,

and two, it represents reaching a large audience.

Um... The dollars and cents I'm comfortable with right now,

because I manage to make enough from the concert tours

and so forth, publishing, to pay for the equipment that I use,

and to pay the people who are making the music.

(CLEARS THROAT) But the problem

about reaching a larger audience is...

It's important to me because more people know my face from a poster

or from doing an interview on television or radio or magazine,

than have ever heard the albums,

or have ever seen the group live, you know?

So, it makes you wonder.

I... I'm famous, but most people don't even know what I do.

One, two, one, two, three, four.

(DYNAMIC, FAST-TEMPO MUSIC PLAYING)

(MUSIC STOPS)

All right, now that's the melody.

Now, we're gonna play...

(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)

The melody will now be sung.

Everybody is going to sing their part.

(CHUCKLES) One, two, one, two, three, four.

(MUSICIANS VOCALIZING MELODY)

(VOCALIZING CONTINUES)

Chester, you're not singing your drum fills.

FEMALE INTERVIEWER: It's so incredibly ironic

that there's so many people that listen to your stuff

and say, "Hey, he must've been really stoned

"to have thought that up." That's because

people are just not accustomed to excellence.

They're not trained to it, you know?

Because when you go to school,

you're not given the criteria by which to judge

between quality this or quality that.

All they do is teach you just enough

to be some kind of a slug in a factory, to do your job,

so you can take home a paycheck

and consume some other stuff that somebody else makes.

And there's no emphasis in schools in the United States

put on people...

Preparing people to live a life

that has beautiful things in it.

You know, things that might bring them aesthetic enrichment.

This is not a major consideration in the United States.

How did you manage to escape all that negative brainwashing?

I got out of school as fast as I could.

MALE INTERVIEWER: Don't you feel miffed

that you have this stigma attached to you,

from the younger crowd that comes out to your concerts,

that you are into drugs, and obviously you're not,

or don't you feel that you have that?

Well, yeah, it's kind of an affliction, but that's not from the kids,

that's from the media, you know.

It's another way that the media

keeps me from getting my point of view across.

The more abstract and weird they make me look,

the less access I have to a normal channel of communication

with the people who might benefit from what I have to say.

Which is one of the reasons why I'm doing this.

I feel very strongly about my point of view.

I think there are other people that might agree with it, if they heard it,

and I'll do whatever I can

to say my point of view wherever it can be said.

But you don't see me on normal television very often.

You don't hear the records on the radio very often.

If you read about me in the papers,

they write about me like I'm a maniac.

I'm not. I'm 40 years old and I'm normal.

I got four kids, a house and a mortgage, and all that crap.

You know?

I'm a... And I'm an American citizen.

I'm happy to be that way.

I pay taxes and everything.

Has it been hard to juggle the career with the family life?

I know you've got... You've got kids...

Yeah, I have a wife, four kids, mortgage, the works.

And? How is it? Yeah, it's hard to juggle.

Well, I've been married to the same wife for 14 years.

What's she like?

Uh, she's a mean little sucker.

Oh, I bet she'd have to be to put up with you.

She's a... She's an excellent boss's wife.

Everybody knows that Gail is the boss's wife.

And what are the kids like?

How do they feel about you as their dad?

They like me.

Do you end up spending a lot of time with them, then?

When I'm home.

(CROWD CHEERING)

(CHEERING CONTINUES)

All right.

I'm gonna tell you one more time.

I want to thank you because I really appreciate this.

The name of this song is Dinah-Moe Humm.

One, two, three, four.

(FAST-TEMPO ROCK MUSIC PLAYING)

♪ I couldn't say where she's comin' from

♪ But I just met a lady named Dinah-Moe Humm

♪ Strolled on over, said, "Look here, bum

♪ "I got a $40 bill says you can't make me come

♪ "No way! You just can't do it"

♪ She made a bet with her sister

♪ Who's a little bit dumb

♪ She could prove at any time All men was scum

♪ I don't mind that she called me a bum

♪ But I knew right away She was really gonna come

♪ So I got down to it

♪ Whipped off her bloomers And stiffened my tongue

♪ And applied rotation to her sugar plumb

♪ I poked and stroked till my wrist got numb

♪ Still didn't hear no Dinah-Moe Humm

♪ Dinah-Moe Humm

♪ Dinah-Moe Humm, Dinah-Moe Humm

♪ Where's this Dinah-Moe coming from?

♪ I done spent three hours And I ain't got a crumb

♪ From the Dinah-Moe, Dinah-Moe

♪ Dinah-Moe, Dinah-Moe Humm

♪ Got a spot that gets me hot

♪ And you ain't been to it

♪ Got a spot that gets me hot

♪ And you ain't been to it

♪ Got a spot that gets me hot

♪ You ain't been to it

♪ Got a spot that gets me hot

♪ You ain't been to it

♪ 'Cause I can't get into it unless I get out of it

♪ And I gotta get out of it to get myself into it

♪ I can't get into it unless I get out of it

♪ And I gotta get out of it before I get into it

♪ She looked over at me with a glazed eye

♪ And some bovine perspiration On her upper lip area

♪ And she said

♪ And here's what she said

♪ "Just get me wasted and you're halfway there

♪ "'Cause if my mind's tore up

♪ "Well, then my body won't care"

♪ I rubbed my chinny-chin-chin And said, "My, my, my

♪ "What sort of thing Might this lady get high upon?"

♪ The $40 bill didn't matter no more

♪ When her sister got naked And laid on the floor

♪ She said, "Dinah-Moe might win the bet

♪ "But she could use a little (MAN SQUAWKS)

♪ "If I wasn't dead yet"

♪ I told her just because the sun

♪ Want a place in the sky

♪ No reason to assume I wouldn't give her a try

♪ So I pulled on her hair

♪ Got her legs in the air

♪ And asked her if she had any cooties in there... ♪

FEMALE INTERVIEWER: Frank, whatever

happened to Popestock, as you called it?

When the Pope wanted us to...

When the Pope thought that maybe you would play

at a huge benefit...

Well, you have to understand, it's...

We're not talking about the Pope that's in there now,

and we're not talking about the quickie guy who died,

who was, you know, just in there a little bit.

It was the one before that, who got in touch with my former manager,

and asked if we would go to the Vatican

and play a special concert at the Vatican

that would draw all these children to the Vatican,

so that he could address them and deliver his message to them.

And I refused to do it.

Oh, you refused to do it. Yeah.

Why didn't you do it?

I don't do it for the Pope, and I don't do it for political leaders,

I don't do it for unions, I don't do it for organizations.

I do it for music.

We've been offered, three or four times,

to play for the big communist party picnic in France,

you know, the... Which is the big

social event there they have every summer.

And they offer a lot of money.

You know, "We'll pay you. Come and do this.

"Everybody will see you."

No, I don't want to work for the Communists.

Fuck the Communists, you know.

I don't like those people.

And I do my music for people who like music.

(MELLOW ROCK MUSIC PLAYING)

♪ Hey, there, well, I'm Bobby Brown

♪ They say I'm the cutest boy in town

♪ My car is fast

♪ My teeth is shiny

♪ I tell all the girls they can kiss my heinie

♪ Here I am at a famous school

♪ I'm dressing sharp and I'm acting cool

♪ I got a cheerleader here Wants to help with my paper

♪ Let her do all the work And maybe later I'll rape her

♪ Oh, God, I am the American Dream

♪ I do not think I'm too extreme

♪ And I'm a handsome son of a bitch

♪ I'm gonna get a good job

♪ And be real rich... ♪

ZAPPA: They could never play Bobby Brown on US radio.

It was successful because, outside the US,

you know, the song was played on the radio.

♪ People, I was not ready... ♪

ZAPPA: I'm not sure that it was the lyrics that really made it popular.

The place where it took off first was Norway,

and the people liked the tune.

I remember going to Norway, when the thing was still a hit,

and going to a disco,

and seeing people dancing close together, like it was a ballad.

They were out on the dance floor.

It was the song to slow-dance to in Norwegian discos.

It was the largest-selling single in CBS's history,

in Scandinavia, at that time.

♪ Am I a boy or a lady?

♪ I don't know which

♪ I wonder, wonder, wonder, wonder

♪ So I went out and bought me a leisure suit

♪ I jingle my change, but I'm still kind of cute

♪ Got a job doing radio promo

♪ And none of the jocks Can even tell I'm a homo

♪ Eventually, me and a friend

♪ Sorta drifted along into S&M

♪ I can take about an hour On the tower of power

♪ Long as I get a little golden shower

♪ Oh, God, I am the American Dream

♪ With a spindle up my butt Till it makes me scream

♪ And I'll do anything to get ahead

♪ I lay awake nights saying, "Thank you, Fred"

♪ Oh, God, oh, God, I'm so fantastic

♪ Thanks to Freddy, I'm a sexual spastic

♪ And my name is Bobby Brown

♪ Watch me now

♪ I'm going down

♪ And my name is Bobby Brown

♪ Watch me now, I'm a-goin' down

♪ My name is Bobby Brown... ♪

(FUNKY INSTRUMENTAL THEME MUSIC PLAYING)

That's Frank Zappa, ladies and gentlemen,

one of the legends, legendary man.

Used to watch this man when I was just a kid.

Just a kid out there in the slums of Beverly Hills.

And multi-faceted composer, am I right?

Right.

HOST: How many songs have you composed?

300. HOST: You're kidding! 300?

Well, why would you kid about that?

Master musician.

Film director, right?

Right. Producer?

Yep. Motion...

Not a motion picture, but you're

kind of a record company magnate.

You have your own building, at this point?

Yes.

You always were a renegade against the music business.

Why?

Because most of what the music business does

is not musical.

What do you mean by that?

Because it's designed to create product and not to create music.

There's this lack of integrity, is what you're saying.

Well, the music business, as a business,

is interested in doing things that I'm not interested in.

HOST: All right, here is Frank Zappa's

new album called Tinseltown Rebellion.

Now, there's some very, very interesting lyrics,

and I would like to read some of them to you.

"Did you know that, in Tinseltown..."

That's Hollywood, right?

"Hollywood," as they say out here.

"The people there think substance is a bore

"And if your New Wave group looks good

"They'll hurry on back for more

"Of leather groups and plastic groups

"And groups that look real queer

"The Tinseltown aficionados Come to see and not to hear."

That's pretty explicit, isn't it? Yeah.

In other words, what are we saying?

That the lyrics have the intellectual consistency of toothpaste?

That guys just want to make money?

The record guys? Is that what you're telling us?

I... Let me quote to you... Please.

...from something that I prepared for Newsweek magazine,

which they have since rejected.

I wrote this little article for the section

in there that's called "My Turn,"

and the name of the article was Say Cheese.

And the whole idea of the article is, we, as a nation,

have chosen cheese as a way of life.

Everything that we choose to do,

we always settle for something that's cheesy,

because of some economic expedient,

and we're too eager to believe when people tell us

that budget-cutting is the way to salvation,

that all we have to do is cut the budget of something,

and everything will be okay. This is wrong.

And we're not concerned enough about the quality of our lives.

I sense though that there is a deep,

permanent, irreversible cynicism in you.

And I wish that I could have other people catch some of it.

(UPBEAT ROCK MUSIC PLAYING)

(MANIACAL LAUGHTER)

♪ I used to play all kinds of stuff

♪ And some of it was nice

♪ Some of it was musical

♪ But then they took some guy's advice

♪ To get a record deal, he said

♪ They would have to be more punk

♪ Forget their chops and play real dumb

♪ Or else they would be sunk

♪ So off they go to S-I-R

♪ To learn some stupid riffs

♪ Oh, no

♪ No! ♪ Oh, no, no, no, no, no

♪ No! ♪ It's the '80s again

♪ No, no, no, no, no, no, no No, no, no, no, no, no, no

♪ And when they think they've got it

♪ They launch a new career

♪ Who gives a fuck if what they play

♪ Is somewhat insincere?

♪ Let's dance the blues again, get down

♪ Dance the blues again, everybody

♪ Dance the blues again, hey

(POPS) (WHISTLES)

(IMITATES EXPLOSION)

♪ I write the songs That make the young girls cry

(POPS)

(CRASHING)

♪ Did you know that in Tinseltown

♪ The people down there think That substance is a bore?

♪ And if your New Wave group looks good

♪ Well, hurry on back for more

♪ Of leather groups

♪ Why do I

♪ Go rock you like a nincompoop?

♪ And plastic groups

♪ Whip it good (POPS)

(CACOPHONY OF NOTES PLAYING)

♪ And groups that look real queer

♪ I'll tumble for ya, I'll tumble for ya

♪ I'll tumble for

♪ Moo, moo-moo, moo, moo

♪ Moo, moo-moo, moo, moo

♪ Moo, moo-moo, moo, moo Moo, moo-moo

♪ Moo Ann

♪ The Tinseltown aficionados

♪ Come to see and not to hear

♪ But then again, the system Works as perfect as a dream

(GLISSANDO) ♪ It works for all of those

♪ Record company pricks

♪ Who come to skim the

(BAND PLAYING RIFF)

♪ Cream ♪

The thing that sets the Americans apart from the rest

of the cultures in the world is we're so fucking stupid.

This country's been around for a couple hundred years,

and we think we're hot shit.

And they don't... We don't even realize

that other countries have thousands of years

of history and culture, and they're proud of it.

And when we deal on an international level, you know,

with foreign policy and stuff like that,

and we try and go in as, you know, a big American

strong country and all that stuff,

they must laugh up their sleeves at us, because we are nothing.

We are culturally nothing.

We mean nothing.

We're only interested in the bottom line.

You know, every other country has their own art,

their own music, their own theater,

their own drama, their folk dances,

folk songs, folklore,

and it means something to them, and they're proud of it,

and that's their ethnic heritage.

We have Levi's, we have designer jeans,

we have hamburgers, we have Coca-Cola,

we have REO Speedwagon, we have Journey,

we have this one, we have that one.

And then we go out there and we say,

"Yeah, but we also have neutron bombs and poison gas,

"so maybe that makes up for it."

I mean, it's really kind of sad when you evaluate it that way.

And I think that a country that doesn't do something

to sustain its culture, whatever it is,

doesn't invest in it, doesn't keep it happening,

isn't proud of it,

maybe they just shouldn't exist,

because it's the culture

and the beautiful things that a society produces,

those are the things that should survive

for thousands of years, not the designer jeans.

Tomorrow night, the London Symphony Orchestra

are giving a concert at their home in the Barbican Centre.

Nothing much new in that.

But what is new is that the program of orchestral music

they'll be playing is music written by

the celebrated American rock star Frank Zappa,

a man once banned, if you remember, from the Royal Albert Hall

because his lyrics were thought to be too obscene.

Robin Denselow's been looking at the least known

and the least commercial side of Zappa's art.

DENSELOW: Frank Zappa has been quietly writing pieces

for a full orchestra, alongside his rock work, for years.

For their first ever performance,

he's using the London Symphony Orchestra and so many musicians

that they might not fit on the Barbican stage.

It's going to be difficult.

It's going to be maybe even painful for some of them.

DENSELOW: The LSO are rehearsing compositions

that Zappa has written from 1975 on,

but which he is only hearing now for the first time.

The conductor, Kent Nagano, mostly works in San Francisco

and was chosen by Zappa.

As the LSO grapple with the highly complicated,

unusual rhythm structures,

Nagano agrees he's not given them an easy time.

He regards the compositions as very important.

For Zappa, it doesn't seem to matter

that his simpler rock songs are far better known

than these serious compositions.

I think that it's just as serious

to write a song like Valley Girl

as it is to write a ballet called Mo 'n Herb's Vacation.

To me, they're equally serious problems in music.

DENSELOW: Really? I mean, one must take you, what,

a matter of days, and the other a matter of months and months.

Well, in the case of Valley Girl,

it took me a matter of moments, but in the case of

some of the orchestra pieces, they'll take, like,

six months to write, but that doesn't mean

there's any less seriousness involved in the construction

of each piece, because they're for different mediums,

they're for different audiences,

and they deal with different kinds of musical problems.

DENSELOW: At the rehearsals, Zappa sat out in the stalls,

but made sure that Nagano and the orchestra

were always aware of exactly what he wanted.

Why don't we split it up with all 1-As doing that?

How about that? Okay.

Um, excuse me. (TAPPING STAND)

So could you take a look please, everyone. 159.

Ready, and...

(ORCHESTRA PLAYING DRAMATIC, DISCORDANT MUSIC)

NAGANO: Don't get ahead.

And...

Do you expect to actually make any money out of the concert

and the recordings that you've come here to make with the LSO?

No. No.

Why, then, do you do it?

Well, I think that any artistic decision that is based on

whether or not you're going to make money is not really

an artistic decision, it's a business decision.

And there are a lot of things that I can do to earn a living,

and a lot of things that I've already done to earn a living,

which have produced the amount of capital needed

to do this project.

I came here to spend money on an English orchestra,

to record my music so I can take it home and I can listen to it.

And if somebody else likes that kind of stuff,

I will make it available on a record so that they can hear it.

That is my part of the public service

of spending the money to make this event happen.

No foundation grant, no government assistance,

no corporation, no committee,

just a crazy guy who spent the money to hire English musicians

to do a concert at the Barbican and make an album

for Barking Pumpkin Records.

Frank, is it good? Is the music good?

I think it's fantastic.

MAN: And you're on.

All right, we're rolling.

Now what? MAN: Just do it.

Do what? MAN: Go in after, you know,

"The Constitution's coming here."

You say, "And this is Frank Zappa."

Okay. MAN: Porn Wars, right?

This is Frank Zappa with tonight's edition of Porn Wars.

Has rock and roll finally gone too far?

Well, a growing number of people think so,

and today they took their case to a US Senate hearing.

Their complaint? That rock lyrics and videos

are crossing the line into trash and smut.

Some parent groups want to rate rock records that may contain

objectionable material the way movies are rated.

Tipper Gore, wife of Tennessee Democratic Senator Albert Gore,

called for voluntary warning labels

on raunchy and violent rock albums.

Frank Zappa was one of the rock stars who opposed the idea.

We now propose one generic warning label

to inform consumers in the marketplace about lyric content.

The labels would apply to all music.

The PMRC proposal is an ill-conceived piece of nonsense

which fails to deliver any real benefits to children,

infringes the civil liberties of people who are not children,

and promises to keep the courts busy for years dealing with

the interpretational and enforcemental problems

inherent in the proposal's design.

Zappa, whose albums are often sexually explicit,

described Mrs. Gore and her supporters as "the wives of Big Brother."

You're taking a very drastic step toward national censorship.

And whenever censorship is mentioned, these wives go wild.

You know, it's like The Emperor's New Clothes.

"Oh, this is not censorship, no."

Censorship implies restricting access or suppressing content.

This proposal does neither.

And the media thinks, "Well, they're very, you know,

"they wouldn't lie, they're very cute, they're from Washington."

Porn rock.

But if it looks like censorship and it smells like censorship,

it is censorship, no matter whose wife is talking about it.

It's censorship.

"Pyromania."

No question.

Burn a building.

Burn, burn, burn.

These right-wing people have this fetish about the right to life.

What about the right to the life of an unborn idea?

How much are you gonna miss out on in the United States

if you won't let people think, say what they think

and do something about it, so that people who don't think

and are too busy doing something else

can have the benefit of the people who think?

It is a stupid waste of resource to take the ability

to think for yourself, or to allow somebody

who might think for you

in a positive way to generate ideas

that can turn into something...

Income for instance,

to stop that from happening.

It is incredibly short-sighted.

HAWKINS: That's...

ZAPPA: Yes.

You say you have four children?

ZAPPA: Yes. Pardon me?

ZAPPA: Four children. Four children.

Have you ever purchased toys for those children?

ZAPPA: No, my wife does.

Well... I might tell you that if you were to go in a toy store,

which is very educational for fathers, by the way,

it's not a maternal responsibility

to buy toys for children, that you may look on the box

and the box says, "This is suitable for

"five to seven years of age," or "Eight to 15"

or "15 and above,"

to give you some guidance for a toy for a child.

Do you object to that?

In a way, I do.

Because that means that somebody in an office someplace

is telling... Making the decision about how smart my child is.

(CROWD LAUGHING)

HAWKINS: I'd be interested to see what toys your kids ever had.

Why would you be interested?

HAWKINS: Just as a point of interest in this...

Well, come on over to the house, I'll show them to you.

(CROWD LAUGHING)

ZAPPA: Really.

I... I might do that.

(CROWD LAUGHING)

Have you ever made... Do you make a profit from sales of rock records?

ZAPPA: Yes.

So you do make a profit from sales of rock records.

ZAPPA: Yes. Mmm-hmm.

Thank you. I think that statement

tells the story to this committee.

Thank you. (CROWD MURMURING)

(CROSSFIRE THEME PLAYING)

ANNOUNCER: Crossfire.

On the left, Tom Braden.

On the right, Robert Novak.

In the crossfire, Washington Times columnist John Lofton

and rock musician Frank Zappa.

But why do you underestimate the power of words?

Words have consequences.

They have impact on people.

Now, I agree with you that the first line

of responsibility is the family to stop the kind of garbage

that we're talking about here today,

but good grief, can't we call on

our government to help us in this fight, Frank?

I mean, you have kids. Are you an anarchist?

Is it the government's role to do nothing about this?

No, I'm a conservative, and you may not like that, but I am.

What is the function of government, Frank, the civil government?

Isn't it to, in part, promote

the general welfare and to help protect families?

Does the government have any purpose, Frank?

Yeah, it has a number of purposes. What? What is it?

Name one. I'm not gonna give you a civics lesson here,

but I'll tell you one thing. Yeah.

We must not see eye to eye

on the idea of a government that must forbid things

in order to protect families.

Really? What is the government's role?

You've told me several times what it shouldn't do.

How about national defense and making sure things...

Yeah, I consider this national defense, pal.

Our families are under attack from people like you with these lyrics.

BRADEN: John, you don't have to bite him.

NOVAK: Mr. Zappa...

Could I make a statement about national defense?

Yeah.

The biggest threat to America today

is not communism, it's moving America

toward a fascist theocracy.

And everything that's happened

during the Reagan administration

is steering us right down that pipe.

NOVAK: Oh, Mr. Zappa, do you... Do you...

Yes, Mr. Zappa.

BRADEN: Wait a minute. In what way?

Give me... Give me one... Wait, wait, wait, wait.

One example, one example of a fascist theocracy.

When you have a government

that prefers a certain moral code

derived from a certain religion,

and that moral code turns into legislation to suit

one certain religious point of view...

NOVAK: Mr. Zappa. Mr. Zappa.

...and if that code... NOVAK: Frank.

...happens to be very, very right-wing,

almost toward Attila the Hun...

Well, then you are an anarchist.

Every form of civil government is based on some kind of morality, Frank.

Morality in terms of behavior...

LOFTON: Well, of course. ...not in terms of theology.

Rock and roll is here to stay, but it will never make everyone happy,

and the latest controversy involves sexual and violent lyrics.

A number of parents groups want warning labels on records.

Today, as NBC's Robert Hager reports now,

the record industry came up with its own solution.

HAGER: The record industry has agreed

to a voluntary self-policing code

by which warning labels can now be stuck on albums

with explicit lyrics on topics like sex, drugs and violence.

But the biggest warning sticker in town

is on the new album by Frank Zappa.

He stuck it on himself to guarantee, as he puts it,

that it won't "cause eternal torment in the place

"where the guy with the pointed stick conducts his business."

♪ ...friend

♪ When the lies get so big

♪ And the fog gets so thick

♪ And the facts disappear

♪ The Republican trick

♪ Can be played out again

♪ People, please tell me when

♪ We'll be rid of these men

♪ Just who do they really Suppose that they are?

♪ And how do they manage to travel as far

♪ As they seem to have come?

♪ Were we really that dumb?

♪ People, wake up

♪ Figure it out

♪ Religious fanatics

♪ Around and about

♪ The courthouse, the statehouse

♪ The Congress, the White House

♪ Criminal saints

♪ With a heavenly mission

♪ A nation enraptured

♪ By pure superstition

♪ Is everybody happy? ♪

WOMAN: Very few rock musicians have been as controversial as Frank Zappa,

but there is no controversy about his talent

or about his role as a rock-and-roll innovator.

So today, we will be at home with Frank Zappa.

Frank, how are you this morning?

Boy, you know, I don't like to get up this early, that's for sure.

(SMITH CHUCKLES)

You got a Grammy for Jazz from Hell.

Is it... Does that mean anything extra to you?

Well, I think that it's, you know, living proof

that the whole process is a fraud.

This is a little plastic joke, the Grammy itself.

I got it for a song called Jazz from Hell,

which I'm convinced nobody has ever heard,

and I don't know why they gave me a Grammy for this song.

It was the most obscure track on a CD called Jazz from Hell.

SMITH: We're in a different part of the house.

Looks like you've got an entire studio set up there.

That's right.

SMITH: You may... I'll just walk over here.

SMITH: Yeah, yeah, let's look around a little bit.

Yeah. SMITH: There's something

you're sitting by now

that I'm not even sure how to pronounce it.

Can you explain it?

Well, it's a machine called a Synclavier, which is...

This is the machine that produced

that Grammy award-winning song Jazz from Hell.

(SMITH LAUGHS)

SMITH: That some... That everyone is humming

on the way to work this morning. Yeah.

SMITH: What... What does the machine do?

How does it work?

Well, it allows you to, um, perform on the keyboard.

You could play a composition on the keyboard

which is then stored in the computer memory,

and then you edit what you played,

or you can type in information on this keypad here

and edit what you played.

(PERCUSSION RIFF PLAYS)

The sequence that's in here now sounds like this.

(PERCUSSION RIFF PLAYING)

Okay, let's say you happen to think that that was

really a good groove, and you wanted to

have that played by something other than a drum set.

Just go to the back again

and look for some other kind of a noise to play it back.

How about, um...

(SUCKS TEETH)

Let's take spastic... Mmm, spastic droopers is okay.

(PERCUSSION AND HORN RIFF PLAYING)

SMITH: Do you ever think the electronics

and the microchips can kind of get in the way, though,

of the actual true music itself,

or what you're really trying to get at?

No, actually it improves it by subtracting the human element,

which is the most unreliable part of doing music.

(LAUGHS) I thought that was supposed to be

part of the creative process though.

Employing musicians? Hell, no.

(FRANTIC ELECTRONIC MUSIC PLAYING)

(MAN SPEAKING IN CZECH)

10:30 a.m. one of the most influential personalities of the rock world

steps out of the plane,

the 49 year old Frank Zappa.

ZAPPA: Never before, in 25 years in rock and roll

have I gotten off of an airplane and seen anything like that.

(CROWD CHANTING) (SPEAKING IN CZECH)

How long have you been waiting for this? My whole life.

I am here to see my prince.

I feel so tired, but so happy to be in Prague, but I'll bet

I don't feel as happy as you do to have a brand new country.

And I give you my congratulations on your political success.

(CROWD CHEERING) (MAN SPEAKING IN CZECH)

What I would say to Zappa?

We started playing his music in 1972

with our band "Elektrobus" and were hunted by the police for that.

When we were interrogated the cops told us:

We will take your Zappa away, you will not spread his ideology here.

Obviously they looked at him as a political ideologist,

kind of an anti-communist leader of an ideologically alternative group.

(REPORTER SPEAKING IN CZECH)

Today president Vaclav Havel welcomed Frank Zappa

the leading representative of rock music at the castle.

The friendly and informal atmosphere was supported by the fact

that the president knew Zappa's music very well.

Is Mr. Havel the first president you've met in your life personally?

Yes.

ZAPPA: There's no official title.

In fact, I don't think they've ever invented a name

for what it is that I expect to be doing for them.

They want me to help them to develop trade,

tourism and things in the cultural field.

Even if I'm doing something like a business deal,

it is a type of composition.

I view the whole thing as composition.

MAN: Mr. Zappa, can you tell me what this contract is about?

It is to release records, CDs, and cassettes

of my music, in Czechoslovakia for the first time.

Legally.

(CROWD APPLAUDING)

I've been playing music in the United States for 25 years.

Most people in that country don't even know what I do,

and they would be shocked to see these people

standing here, listening to me, right now.

They would think you are crazy.

You have a lot of fans here, so if you fuck up it in America,

so, then, you can rely on your Czech listeners.

(MUSIC PLAYING) MAN: Can you sing the number?

Frankie!

♪ Love of my life

(CROWD CHEERING)

♪ I love you so

♪ Love of my life

♪ Don't ever go

♪ I love you only

♪ Love, love of my life ♪

You know, they won't play this on the radio in America.

♪ Love of my life

♪ I love you so... ♪

(TAPE REWINDING)

(BLUESY RIFF PLAYING ON TAPE)

♪ Took Ike's watch like they always do... ♪

(CROWD NOISE PLAYING ON TAPE)

(DRUMBEAT PLAYS ON TAPE)

(VOCALIZING)

(ELECTRIC GUITAR RIFF BLASTS ON TAPE)

(DRUMS PLAYING ON TAPE)

♪ Draws ♪

(ROCK MUSIC PLAYING)

ZAPPA: There's two things you ought to consider here.

One is the possibility that the whole body of my work

is one composition. MAN: Right.

And only separated into individual tracks,

so to speak, because I'm releasing it on records,

and it takes me years to put it together.

But, if I was all done, and you stuck it all together,

it's one composition, basically.

And a theme that started off in, you know, on the first record,

could just as easily occur, later on, with

no... No reason other than,

since the whole mass of work is one composition,

why can't you recapitulate a theme that started off years ago?

(PERCUSSION PLAYING RHYTHM)

(ORCHESTRA PLAYING SELECTION FROM YELLOW SHARK)

I wound up with a style of music that has snorks, burps,

uh, and dissonant chords,

and nice tunes and triads

and straight rhythms and complicated rhythms,

and just about anything, in any order.

MAN: Right.

And the easiest way to sum up the aesthetic would be,

anything, anytime, anyplace, for no reason at all.

And I think with an aesthetic like that,

you can have pretty good latitude for being creative.

(YELLOW SHARK CONTINUES)

(MUSIC STOPS)

MAN: What is wrong with it?

No, no... MAN: No.

In my band, when somebody would make a mistake

of that magnitude, it's called a "strong wrong," so...

(MAN LAUGHING)

But other than that, it sounded really good.

KATIE COURIC: You know, to some,

Frank Zappa is a legend in rock music.

To others, he's a bizarre performer

with a penchant for lascivious lyrics.

But what few realize is that he's also

a serious and respected classical composer.

Today Show national correspondent, Jamie Gangel,

is here this morning with a rare interview with Frank Zappa,

an interview that almost didn't happen,

because Frank Zappa is also quite ill.

Jamie, how's he doing? He's not doing well.

He's been suffering from prostate cancer for a number of years,

and we really got the impression

that it took all of his strength to even do this interview.

And although he guards his privacy,

he talked about his cancer, and in spite of it all,

at 52, Frank Zappa is still Frank Zappa,

funny, opinionated, and off the wall.

For the last four years, Zappa has focused on classical music.

Almost unheard in America, he sells out concert halls in Europe.

Tell me about The Yellow Shark concert.

It was... It got an extraordinary reaction.

How'd you feel about that?

Well, as I said to you a little earlier,

there's no accounting for taste.

(LAUGHS) Oh, come on!

You must have been thrilled.

I was sick.

Some... So it's hard to be truly thrilled.

But, I was... I was happier that they did that

rather than throw things at the stage.

(CROWD CHEERING, WHISTLING)

(ORCHESTRA PLAYS)

(ORCHESTRA STOPS)

(CHEERING CONTINUES)

You have made a career out of making fun of everybody,

gays, Jewish-American princesses,

and you have taken a lot of heat for it.

Does that bother you at all?

No. I'm totally unrepentant.

(GANGEL LAUGHS)

Is there anything you ever did that you were sorry for in music?

No.

A lot of performers do things that are shocking,

or might be considered obscenity or pornography,

but you get singled out a lot, I think.

Do you have any idea why?

'Cause I'm ugly.

GANGEL: Oh, stop!

Well, you know, the...

In this world of basic stereotyping,

give a guy a big nose

and some weird hair, and he's capable of anything.

(GANGEL LAUGHS)

You're a legendary workaholic.

Are you able to work... Not anymore.

Not anymore. (CHUCKLES)

Tell me.

Ah, basically, on a good day, I can go 9:30 to 6:30, but...

It's really slowed you down.

Yeah.

Can you tell me a little bit about how you've been doing?

Fair. Fair.

Yeah. Good days, bad days.

More bad days than good days?

Yeah.

Let me go through a list of words that,

whenever you read about Frank Zappa, you hear.

And tell me how they strike you.

"Rock legend."

That's pathetic. (CHUCKLES)

"Test pilot pushing the edge."

That's...

Don't you like that one a little bit?

No. No?

No.

It's a little bit too...

Got that military aroma to it.

"Eccentric genius"?

Eccentric, yes. Genius, maybe.

"Funny guy."

Only to a few.

Here's a question, you'll know exactly what it is,

and that is, how does Frank Zappa want to be remembered?

Ah.

That's not important.

Not important at all?

Mmm-mmm.

Want to be remembered for the music?

It's not important to even be remembered.

I mean, the people who worry about being remembered

are guys like Reagan, Bush.

These people want to be remembered.

And they'll spend a lot of money

and do a lot of work to make sure

that remembrance is just terrific.

And for Frank Zappa?

I don't care.

One, two, three, four.

(ORCHESTRA PLAYING DRAMATIC, PERCUSSIVE MUSIC)

(ORCHESTRA CONTINUES PLAYING)

(ORCHESTRAL MUSIC ENDS)

(♪♪)

♪ Now believe me when I tell you That my song is really true

♪ I want everyone to listen and believe

♪ It's about some little people From a long time ago

♪ And all the things the neighbors didn't know

♪ Early in the morning Daddy Dinky went to work

♪ Selling lamps and chairs To San Ber'dino squares

♪ And I still remember Mama With her apron and her pad

♪ Feeding all the boys at Ed's Cafe

♪ Whizzing and pasting and pooting Through the day

♪ Ronnie helping Kenny helping Burn his poots away

♪ And all the while on a shelf in the shed

♪ Kenny's little creatures on display

♪ Ronnie saves his numies On a window in his room

♪ A marvel to be seen Dysentery green

♪ While Kenny and his buddies Had a game out in the back

♪ Let's make the water turn black

♪ We see them after school In a world of their own

♪ To some it might seem creepy what they do

♪ The neighbors on the right Sat and watched them every night

♪ I bet you'd do the same if they was you

♪ Whizzing and pasting and pooting Through the day

♪ Ronnie helping Kenny helping Burn his poots away

♪ And all the while on a shelf in the shed

♪ Kenny's little creatures on display

♪ Ronnie's in the Army now And Kenny's taking pills

♪ Oh, how they yearn to see a bomber burn

♪ Color flashing, thunder crashing Dynamite machine

♪ Wait till the fire turns green

♪ Wait till the fire turns green

♪ Wait till the fire turns green ♪

(MUSIC ENDS)

You're 18.

Take the spoon out of your nose,

take the needle out of your arm,

take the beer out of your mouth, and go vote.

You know what I mean? Vote.

Register and vote like a beast.