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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,920 This programme contains strong language and adult themes. 2 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:13,440 (SOMBRE MUSIC) 3 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,280 Oh, there they are. 4 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:25,200 After Leigh's death, 5 00:00:25,240 --> 00:00:31,920 I came across lots of letters which she'd written to her children. 6 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:39,200 It shocked me to the core 7 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,480 that a mother could write a letter like that to her daughter. 8 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,280 One day in 2015... 9 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,360 ..I received a letter from the UK. 10 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,600 On the front it says: "Thinking of You." 11 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:57,720 I opened it... 12 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,480 and there was a picture of a phoenix. 13 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,800 "Like the phoenix I will arise from the ashes, 14 00:01:05,960 --> 00:01:09,640 "and sleep will obey me and visit thee never, 15 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:13,080 "for my eyes are upon thee forever and ever. 16 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:19,280 "I have served my life sentence of shame and blame. 17 00:01:19,320 --> 00:01:22,280 "Now it's your turn to suffer the same." 18 00:01:22,320 --> 00:01:27,280 "Your nemesis, Lee Sabine." 19 00:01:27,320 --> 00:01:29,680 What the fuck? 20 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:31,840 Who says that sh...? 21 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:35,560 It really does make you think, 22 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,400 what was going on in her mind when she wrote these things? 23 00:01:39,479 --> 00:01:44,479 It seems it didn't take very much to incur her wrath. 24 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,640 Anyone who crossed her was in danger. 25 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,360 (ANGELIC THEME MUSIC) 26 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:40,760 Every homicide is unique, but in this case it was absolutely bizarre. 27 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,800 So, we have an unidentified, freshly-killed male body. 28 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,400 May have been there for weeks, possibly months, 29 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,720 who's died from a blow to the head. 30 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,760 At this point in the investigation, Leigh Sabine is the prime suspect. 31 00:02:55,800 --> 00:03:00,240 Leigh had died three weeks before the body was found. 32 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,680 She didn't fit the profile of a killer, 33 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:07,480 but forensic examination of the packaging wrapped around the body 34 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,800 found a piece of hair that was a positive match for Leigh Sabine, 35 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,040 linking her to the murder. 36 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:18,120 Now, I had reasonable grounds to forensically examine her flat 37 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,440 to see if there was any evidence of a violent attack, 38 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:25,520 to prove if the killer is Leigh Sabine. 39 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:28,120 (SOMBRE MUSIC) 40 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:32,480 I attended the scene to look for any forensics at all. 41 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,480 Hair, fibres, blood, fingerprints. 42 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:38,480 We looked everywhere. 43 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:40,360 Skirting boards, architraving, 44 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,200 behind cupboards, 45 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:44,280 the boiler in the kitchen. 46 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,160 Even the DNA team looked under the floorboards for blood. 47 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,000 We knew that the property had been steam cleaned, 48 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,400 and that a lot of the furniture had been given away 49 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:55,920 to neighbours and friends. 50 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:57,880 I had the hoover. 51 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,400 Rhian had some jewellery. 52 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:06,880 Another friend, she had a frog, which was a weight for a door. 53 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,240 We cleaned the place up really well. 54 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:14,320 You've got to keep searching for that evidence. 55 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:16,519 It is like finding a needle in a haystack. 56 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,079 (SOMBRE MUSIC) 57 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:29,280 If you're charging me with assault, he says to my mother... 58 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:30,880 He gave them... Come on, Jane. 59 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:35,240 After I was charged with assault on my mother, 60 00:04:35,280 --> 00:04:37,400 the shit hit the fan, 61 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,480 and my parents disappeared again. 62 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,720 Are you their mother? No, I'm not their mother, 63 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,320 and I've answered that one before. 64 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,640 My mum says to Marty and I, 65 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:52,440 "We can't keep living like this. We're all going to the UK. 66 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,480 "We've got air fares, we've got all the tickets done. 67 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:57,920 "We'll drop you at this hotel. 68 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,680 "We'll pick you up at ten tomorrow morning, and we're out of here." 69 00:05:02,840 --> 00:05:07,760 I thought, "I've still got a chance at a family here," you know? 70 00:05:08,840 --> 00:05:11,000 Next morning, I was all pumped. 71 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,480 Let's go! Went out. 72 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:15,720 Nothing. 73 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:17,760 It's just...no-one there,. 74 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:19,920 And I waited and waited. 75 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,400 And then I realised once again... 76 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:27,760 "Yep, they've gone." 77 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:29,800 Yeah. 78 00:05:29,840 --> 00:05:31,800 Just smacked me around a bit. 79 00:05:31,840 --> 00:05:34,520 Mm. Mm. 80 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:41,400 And then Jane told me Marty went to the UK with his girlfriend. 81 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:50,000 Martin was very much involved in helping them escape 82 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:53,080 because he wanted the relationship to continue. 83 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,920 Oh, it's like someone's stabbed you in the heart, really. 84 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:08,560 I think all of us felt that we were rejected again. 85 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:13,200 We turned to drugs and alcohol just to waste ourselves, you know, 86 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,640 so that we didn't have to think or feel. 87 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,560 I went right back to an abusive relationship 88 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,280 and drug and alcohol abuse. 89 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:28,280 There was no-one and nowhere to turn to. 90 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,240 We've never been a family, we're just five people 91 00:06:31,280 --> 00:06:34,480 that have lived different lives, but got the same name. 92 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:36,800 The good thing is that you're living with your parents, 93 00:06:36,840 --> 00:06:39,720 not relying on foster parents, or anything, 94 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,520 cos they never really treated you the same as their own kids. 95 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,280 It's just good to have your own parents. 96 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,240 When Martin went to the UK... 97 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,400 ..I never heard from him again. 98 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,760 (INTRIGUING MUSIC) 99 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:08,280 After two days, looking for hairs, fibres, blood 100 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:09,920 and fingerprints... 101 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:12,480 ..we found absolutely nothing. 102 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,120 And whilst it was disappointing to have no forensic evidence... 103 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,680 ..the report opened up a number of theories in my mind. 104 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,680 My first theory was steam cleaning had taken place, 105 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:31,880 so DNA and fingerprints would have been destroyed. 106 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:33,880 The second theory was, 107 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:39,720 whilst we suspected the murder had taken place within that flat... 108 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:44,520 ..it could have taken place somewhere else altogether. 109 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:54,680 Martin and I, we lived with Leigh and John. 110 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,360 They had this really nice apartment in Reading. 111 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,720 We had our own little space. 112 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:03,640 Reading in the '80s, it was just, like, wow! 113 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:07,800 We were only young kids, but we loved it. 114 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:12,200 There were pubs everywhere, pub culture was huge. 115 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:17,400 The cars, the little cars, the tiny streets. 116 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:23,200 And then the bobbies on bicycles, you know? 117 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,000 Martin was a great pool player. 118 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:31,200 We'd go down to the local pub and he would thrash them all, 119 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:32,960 the locals. (CHUCKLES) 120 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,440 And it was, like, "Yeah, that's my man." (LAUGHS) 121 00:08:38,039 --> 00:08:42,600 Martin became a different man because he was happy 122 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,760 and full of life, when he'd come in and sitting around the dinner table 123 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,720 and have a family to talk to. 124 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,840 And they treated him like he was the only child, 125 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,960 like this long lost son that had come back and returned, 126 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:57,840 and very spoilt. 127 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,640 He enjoyed being with his parents, 128 00:09:01,680 --> 00:09:03,960 but, again, there was that sadness 129 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,360 that he didn't have his siblings. 130 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:13,480 He felt he'd betrayed his sisters and his brother by going to England. 131 00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:17,400 I couldn't believe he went. 132 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,200 I know he wanted a mum and dad. 133 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:23,200 We all did. 134 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,880 He was just such a softie. 135 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:31,240 He just wanted that family situation. 136 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:35,160 He wanted what everybody else has, 137 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:36,840 but he had his blinders on. 138 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,080 It just wasn't what he imagined. 139 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,960 As the investigation went on, something wasn't sitting right with me. 140 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,040 This body had been recently killed, 141 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:59,440 but before it was found, Leigh Sabine was weak, she was dying of cancer. 142 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,280 Um, there was no way she'd have been able to commit such an act. 143 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:04,760 I started to go back through the evidence, 144 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:06,600 you know, review it with the team. 145 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:10,000 Started looking at the body, looking at the wrappings, 146 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,680 and that's where I noticed the Tesco carrier bag. 147 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,040 Nothing unusual about a Tesco carrier bag, 148 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,080 only this one had a barcode on it. 149 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,280 And the date on that barcode was 1992. 150 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:25,600 Er, you know, which was a significant time away from 2015. 151 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:29,120 Now, I understand that people hold on to carrier bags for a long time, 152 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,080 but 20 years, I just thought that was really unlikely. 153 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,840 So, the body, er, when it was found was wearing a pair 154 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,080 of St Michael's pyjamas. 155 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,400 We spoke to Marks & Spencer and what they told us 156 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:46,280 was that those line of pyjamas were discontinued in the early '90s. 157 00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:52,400 Initially, we believed that this body is probably recent, 158 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:54,640 yet everything else is telling me 159 00:10:54,680 --> 00:10:57,320 that this murder may have taken place some years ago. 160 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:08,360 Martin and I just settled into local life. 161 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:13,160 Martin had formed a really close relationship with John. 162 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:17,080 John would talk about how he missed 163 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,360 sports days with his kids and his sons. 164 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,680 So, it was all happy families, except for Leigh. 165 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:29,080 She was jealous of the relationship that Martin had with John. 166 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,600 When I got home, she'd either be, you know, 167 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,320 loud and vivacious and happy. 168 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,760 Other days she'd be like, you know, really dark, 169 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:42,200 moody, stroppy, short. 170 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,520 And I'd think, "Ooh," you know, "what's wrong with her?" 171 00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:46,160 Had she had too much to drink, 172 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,080 or had they been fighting, her and John? 173 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:56,120 John was upset with not having his other children around him. 174 00:11:58,560 --> 00:12:02,120 But it was the opposite for Leigh. 175 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,560 It's almost like she'd had children but they were more pets, you know, 176 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:10,960 that she'd had and then discarded. 177 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:15,280 She didn't have a motherly bone in her body. 178 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,280 (OMINOUS MUSIC) 179 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,720 As investigators, you think you're getting the story, 180 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:29,440 and then more information would take you in a different direction. 181 00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:35,360 I went back to the pathologist just to run through 182 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,800 some of the things we were finding and some of the things 183 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,040 that were troubling me a little bit. 184 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,320 Could it be that the body could have been there a lot longer? 185 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,960 And the pathologist said there were possibilities. 186 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:50,280 One thing which he did speak about was the vacuum-packed theory. 187 00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:55,320 He explained, if that body had been wrapped so tightly... 188 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,400 (PARCEL TAPE RIPPING) 189 00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:59,160 ..and around and round and round. 190 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:02,760 Taped, sealed, bound, 191 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,960 and if it had been bound with no air inside that packaging... 192 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:11,080 ..that would have prevented any bacteria, prevented decomposition, 193 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,280 kept the body really well preserved. 194 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,280 It's almost far-fetched, isn't it? 195 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,600 There was skin on the body, there was hair on the body. 196 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,360 The organs were intact. There were no maggots. 197 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:29,880 Right up until this point of the investigation, 198 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,000 I'm working on the basis this is a freshly killed male body... 199 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,520 ..but could this body have been dead for quite some time, 200 00:13:37,560 --> 00:13:40,160 far longer than we initially thought? 201 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:41,480 (CAMERA SHUTTER CLICKS) 202 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:43,520 When I spoke to the undertaker, 203 00:13:43,560 --> 00:13:46,120 the undertaker said, "Oh, I've got a theory, Lynne. 204 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:51,240 "She is proper vacuum-packed, you know, like a piece of meat." 205 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:57,160 He said, "I do think she's used something to suck the air out." 206 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:00,880 "Oh, I got the Hoover," I says, "in the back of my car." 207 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,120 I am so glad it never went in my house 208 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,760 cos that would have been a horrible thought, 209 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,200 to think that I had brought that into my house. 210 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,080 All of a sudden, we were looking at a murder 211 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,360 that had occurred many years ago, 212 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,920 when the prime suspect, Leigh Sabine, 213 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,680 was not too frail, ill, to have committed such an act. 214 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,120 After I found that Leigh was at the centre of things, 215 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,360 I started to reflect 216 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,120 on something she'd told me, 217 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:32,400 which I hadn't really registered at the time, 218 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:36,720 and it was that one of her sons had died. 219 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:42,120 And what I found strange was it was almost like a throwaway remark. 220 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:48,280 It didn't seem to be something which bothered her a great deal. 221 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,320 We'd been living together for about six months. 222 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,800 I came home from work, and Martin said, 223 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,440 "I've got to tell you something. Mum wants you to move out." 224 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:03,280 And I said, "What? What?" 225 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,240 And he said, "Mum doesn't want you here anymore." 226 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,480 And I said, "Oh, my God! 227 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,720 "What am I gonna tell Mum and Dad? Where am I gonna go? 228 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,240 "Like, what can I do? But what have I done? 229 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,080 "I haven't done anything." And he said, "Yeah, 230 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:21,280 "she's just gone off on one and she doesn't want you to be here. 231 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:23,120 "She wants you to move out." 232 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,040 And I started crying. I just didn't know what to do. 233 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:27,840 (ARGUING) 234 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,200 Martin was giving them what for, telling them, 235 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:34,920 "What the...is going on?" 236 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,560 Why were they doing it again, 237 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,520 and why were we all the way over here in the UK 238 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:43,560 for this to happen to him again? 239 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,120 (ARGUING) 240 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:49,960 It was the first time that I'd ever really seen him that angry. 241 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:55,200 He said, "If she goes, I go too, and you lose me." 242 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:58,880 John was very emotional. 243 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:00,680 He was saying, 244 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,640 "But, Leigh, you cannot do this." Like, "Why are you doing it?" 245 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,760 She just said, "Because I can." 246 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:08,680 I thought, "What an evil bitch!" 247 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:15,160 And Martin really saw his mother for what she was. 248 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:22,960 In that moment, I felt Leigh would do anything to be in control again. 249 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:27,840 I just remember packing my suitcase, 250 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:29,880 and off we went into the dead of night. 251 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,040 I just didn't know what to do. 252 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,800 Martin stood by me and he said, "I'll never go back." 253 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,680 After that, Martin just went downhill. 254 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,920 His whole life just revolved around drinking. 255 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:49,960 He would get really dark. 256 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,000 Our relationship spiralled down, 257 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,840 and so we just ended up breaking up. 258 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,280 He moved back to New Zealand. 259 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,800 And one day I get this phone call out of the blue 260 00:17:06,839 --> 00:17:08,720 that Marty passed away. 261 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:17,280 In 2000, Marty had been found deceased... 262 00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:20,319 ..and... 263 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,760 ..he had taken his own life. 264 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:34,360 I couldn't believe that Marty had pa... 265 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:36,720 I just never thought he would do that. 266 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:40,760 He was just a fun, easy-going, gentle soul. 267 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:45,480 That really knocked me around for ages, that, 268 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:47,600 because I felt like I'd let him down. 269 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,200 Even though I'd had nothing to do with him for years, 270 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,360 I felt like I'd let him down. 271 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,240 On the day of his funeral, I just cried and cried and cried, 272 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:58,960 and I just couldn't believe it. 273 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,080 When he went back to the UK 274 00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:05,440 to see them and they shit on him again, 275 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:07,480 I totally believe he never got over it. 276 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:09,160 It might have been not the thing 277 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,400 that drove him over the edge in the end, 278 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,480 but, man, it would have filled the cup, you know? 279 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,840 We all can only take so much. 280 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:20,920 Yeah. 281 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,920 Martin phoned me a few days before he killed himself. 282 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,320 He'd often phone every now and then, he'd drunken dial. 283 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:36,720 He called me by the nickname he used to call me, you know, 284 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,080 and I sort of said to him, "Oh, Martin." 285 00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:43,160 I said, "Oh," you know. I said, "Stop it!" I said, "You're drunk." 286 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,240 He told me that he loved me and that he'd always love me, 287 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:48,800 and then that was it. 288 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:54,400 In my heart of hearts now, when I look back on that phone call, 289 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:56,120 that last phone call, 290 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,720 it was his goodbye, that he'd had enough. 291 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,120 He'd actually had enough. 292 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,320 So, yeah... 293 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:08,400 Sorry. 294 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:18,320 I understand why he took his life. 295 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,440 Not that I think it was right, 296 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,360 but he felt it was right for him. 297 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,000 He was tired of believing in people. 298 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,600 No-one can hurt him where he is now, so that's good. 299 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:34,160 Mm. 300 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:40,400 I could never forgive my parents for what happened to Marty. 301 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,440 They destroyed a beautiful soul. 302 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,040 (PHONE RINGS) 303 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,480 After Marty had passed, 304 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,040 I received a phone call and it's my mother. 305 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,280 And she said somebody had knocked on her door, 306 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,240 and it was two policemen, 307 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:13,440 and they had informed her that her son had died. 308 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:18,560 I said, "Yes," and I told her how he had died. 309 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,800 And she says, "Oh. But why would he do that?" 310 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,120 I was just speechless. 311 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,560 It's, like, "What the fuck, lady?" 312 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,120 It's, like... 313 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,760 "Because of you." 314 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,600 Not long after my mother passed away, 315 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,560 Mary West was cleaning out my mother's home, 316 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:53,880 and came across all these letters she had written to all us children. 317 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,440 I just couldn't believe what she was saying in them. 318 00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,680 Just crazy talk. 319 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:03,360 Jane's ones were bad. 320 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,360 Jane was the ugly duckling. 321 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,040 Marty's ones were bad, 322 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,920 calling him gutless and soft, 323 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,640 and when she had him, he was weak. 324 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,640 Children were a burden to her. 325 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:22,720 She didn't care about any of us. 326 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:24,800 Everything was about her. 327 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,800 How could she write such horrible... 328 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,000 horrible, nasty, 329 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,160 mean, evil stuff? 330 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,600 She had a whole life with no kids 331 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,760 to do whatever she wanted to do, enjoy her life. 332 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,320 I just don't know why... 333 00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:45,520 why she had so much hate. 334 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:50,440 Towards the end, 335 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:54,320 she said to me, "You could write my life story for me." 336 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,600 It didn't appear that she had a good upbringing herself. 337 00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:04,080 Leigh told me that she grew up in the Rhondda, 338 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,840 which is a mining valley in South Wales. 339 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,320 It was tough because, literally, there was no money. 340 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,000 Leigh had been abandoned as a young child. 341 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:22,200 Her mother had left her father 342 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,560 when Leigh was about three, 343 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,960 and Leigh had been taken into care. 344 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,600 It had been a painful time for her. 345 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,880 She used to say that she'd been abused when she was in care. 346 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,960 She didn't go into detail about it. 347 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:43,360 It left her, as often happens with children like this, 348 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,440 as though she was emotionally stunted. 349 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:53,080 I felt she had never been taught how to be a mother. 350 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:58,480 When she was about 15, she went to live with her aunt, 351 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,720 and her aunt encouraged her to sing. 352 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:05,320 Lee's aunt modelled her appearance on the singer, Deanna Durbin. 353 00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:07,880 "I wanted to look nice my first time out in Vienna." 354 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,120 "Oh, now, looks very nice. Very, very pretty." 355 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:12,880 Bought her clothes, 356 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:14,640 make up, etcetera, 357 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,040 so that she did echo Deanna Durbin. 358 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:23,400 That could have been when Leigh tried to build up this persona, 359 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,280 and rather than live in the real world... 360 00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:32,240 ..she chose to fantasise about what she wanted her life to be. 361 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,640 There was no doubt that she was an absolute storyteller. 362 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,920 The stories of her life were totally mythical. 363 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,600 She wasn't actually Lee Sabine from New Zealand. 364 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,720 We found out her name was Ann Evans. 365 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,640 She was a lady who was born in the Rhondda Valley in South Wales. 366 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:58,800 She grew up in that area. 367 00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:03,200 Can you believe she lived in the Rhondda? It's only up the road. 368 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,800 A valleys girl? Good God, well. I wouldn't have... 369 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:10,760 I mean, you, obviously, you can tell my accent. 370 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,000 You would never have known that from her... 371 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:14,920 No, definitely not, no. ..Her accent. 372 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,200 No fucking way. 373 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:21,360 Fuck off! We always thought she was from New Zealand. 374 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,720 I would never, never in a million years, 375 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:25,760 have thought that she was from Rhondda Valley. 376 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,160 And they say you can't take the valley out of the... 377 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,800 the girl from the valley. You can, obviously, yeah. 378 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,840 Everything she said was untrue. 379 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:36,240 Absolute lie. 380 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,880 She just lived in a different world to everybody else. 381 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:52,280 I remember one day out of the blue, my mother rang. 382 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,880 She said, "Your father passed a couple of years ago." 383 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,520 And I says, "Oh, how did he pass?" 384 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,320 And she said, "Oh, he had a lot of medical issues." 385 00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:05,280 I says, "Oh, that's really sad." 386 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,680 And she's, "Oh, I never truly loved him." 387 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,160 I hung up. 388 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,000 Why she even felt the need 389 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,360 to tell me she never truly loved him, I don't know. 390 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,240 I remember, Lee and John had moved in. 391 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,080 Would have been about '97. 392 00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:25,640 My father said, "New neighbours." I said, "Oh, that's nice. 393 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,240 "Have you met them?" 394 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,280 "Yes." I said, "What's the matter?" He said, "Oh, I don't like her." 395 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:31,920 "Something about her that I don't like." 396 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:33,960 "She's too in your face. Oh, I don't like her." 397 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,640 John was just...quiet. 398 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:39,720 He was very quiet. Sat in the background. 399 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,280 He spoke, but she did most of the talking. 400 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,040 We did full proof of life enquiries for John Sabine. 401 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,800 DVLA, National Health Service, 402 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:53,360 passport enquiries. 403 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,720 John had only been living there three, four months, at the most? 404 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,560 He wasn't there long, put it like that. 405 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,560 There was only a handful of times I ever had any interaction with him. 406 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:06,200 I'd never met John Sabine, but Lee said that he'd left her 407 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:11,000 because, "Darling, that's what Italian men do." 408 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,840 We were able to prove that on the 10th of February 1997... 409 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:21,040 ..John and Lee Sabine had moved into 57, Trem-y-Cwm in Beddau. 410 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:25,120 Both of them had signed the tenancy agreement. 411 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,200 A couple of months later, 9th April 1997, 412 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,320 he'd actually been physically seen by a doctor, 413 00:26:30,360 --> 00:26:32,320 who recorded that meeting. 414 00:26:32,360 --> 00:26:34,360 But since April 1997, 415 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,600 no-one had ever seen or heard of John Sabine. 416 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,920 When I looked back at the death certificate Mary West had uncovered... 417 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,200 ..it was for a John H Sabine. 418 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,000 He was a male who was born in 1929. 419 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:55,040 However, looking at this document, John Sabine was born 420 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,040 on the 5th August 1930. 421 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,640 So, you had the same name, John Sabine, 422 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,320 both born in the London area, 423 00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:06,720 but the date of births were actually out by one year. 424 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,240 So, with all the best intentions of Mary West, 425 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,360 she'd had the death certificate of a different person. 426 00:27:16,360 --> 00:27:19,840 After John had supposedly left her, 427 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:21,640 when we went to visit my parents, 428 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,040 as soon as you open the door, this smell would hit you. 429 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,440 It had to be coming from Leigh's flat. 430 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,600 I'd say to my mum, "What on Earth is that smell?" 431 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,000 "Oh, she's cooking curry." 432 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,120 I used to say, "Mum, I cook curry. It doesn't smell like that." 433 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,160 It was a putrid smell. 434 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,120 She'd put a load of potpourri, etcetera, 435 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,600 to hide the smell. It didn't work, though. 436 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,480 Now we're focussing on John Sabine as the potential victim, 437 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,920 but we had no definitive proof that it was him. 438 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,520 We needed the DNA from his children 439 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,000 in order to establish identity. 440 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:03,640 I got a phone call from the police, and they want a DNA sample, 441 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,520 so they can identify the body. 442 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,160 And I said, "Good," and then they contacted me back, 443 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,280 and said, "We don't need one off you. 444 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,800 We got one off your brother. 445 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:14,960 And then I says, "But my brother's dead." 446 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,000 "No, no, you've got a half-brother over here." 447 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,360 Excuse my language but I thought, "Holy fuck! 448 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,760 "What else is going to come out of this?" 449 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,800 We were starting to delve deeper into John Sabine, 450 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,840 pulling his army records, and that's when we found out 451 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,640 that he'd actually had two children from a previous marriage 452 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,160 that were living in the UK. 453 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,320 (SHEEP BLEATING) 454 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,520 I'm Chris Sabine, son of John Sabine from his first marriage. 455 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,080 I was about one years old. 456 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,040 My sister would have been about two and a half 457 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,000 when my father abandoned us. 458 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,520 Back in 2015, 459 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,200 we were selling Christmas trees, 460 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,120 and the phone rang, and I picked the phone up. 461 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,640 This Welsh accent said, "Is Christopher John Sabine there?" 462 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,160 They said, "We wanna come out and do a test on you 463 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,440 "because we've found a body. We think it's your father. 464 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,440 "If we can come over as soon as possible." 465 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,840 I said, "When's that?" They said, "Tomorrow morning." 466 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,560 I thought, "Well, it's Saturday." 467 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,800 A Sunday. No, it was Saturday then. 468 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,600 Yeah.Then they said they'll be over by the morning. 469 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,520 They were here at nine o'clock, ten o'clock? 470 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,520 Nine o'clock. In the morning? They did a DNA test. 471 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,080 Well, I was a bit stunned by it, really, 472 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,160 because you thought, "What's happened?" 473 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,720 My mother said when I was one or two years old, 474 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,480 my father came back from the Korean War. 475 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,960 He had shellshock. 476 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,760 He was in hospital for a long period of time, 477 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,240 and he got friendly with the nurse. 478 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,480 Next thing you know, she got pregnant. 479 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,360 At the time, John was 28 and Lee was 17. 480 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,240 When my mother found out, she decided, that's it, 481 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,400 best thing he can do is sling his hook, and told him to leave. 482 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,320 It were one of the worst things in my life. 483 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,280 I never grew up with a father. There's a lot to miss. 484 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,000 Officers went to see Chris, 485 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,560 took a DNA sample kit, which comprised of a mouth swab. 486 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,720 We quickly fast-tracked them to the lab. 487 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,320 I was very conscious this was someone 488 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,720 who hadn't seen their father for many, many years. 489 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,640 We weren't sure of their relationship. 490 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,640 We weren't sure of the impact that a match could have on Chris. 491 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,160 In the mid-'80s, when I was round about the age of 32, 492 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,160 we get this phone call to say, 493 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,840 "This is your father, John Sabine. 494 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,120 "Would you like to meet me?" I said, "Yeah, certainly." 495 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,280 I couldn't believe it. 496 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:03,600 We met for over a year, and everything was nice. 497 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,280 We went down every fortnight to Reading, 498 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,000 and we always went out for dinner. 499 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,200 We paid one week, they paid the following. 500 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,920 It was very strange cos going all through my life 501 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,120 with no father, all of a sudden I've got a father. 502 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,040 I was really pleased to see him. 503 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,360 I think he wanted to have a family. 504 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,680 Not so much be a dad, but have a family. 505 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,040 As we got to know them both more, 506 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,240 it appeared that she was definitely the one in control. 507 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,360 John agreed with everything that she said. 508 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,800 He would never stand up against her. He wouldn't argue with her. 509 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:44,960 She was a bit aggressive. 510 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,000 One day, I rung up to say, "I've got my first child." 511 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,040 "You're a grandad now." 512 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,800 And it's almost as if he couldn't speak to me. 513 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,320 And that was it. Never saw him again. 514 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,880 Which was strange cos I thought John was very, very keen 515 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:02,640 to have a grandchild. 516 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,800 I don't think Lee at the time wanted him 517 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:07,960 to have any relationship back with us. 518 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:09,880 She's a very jealous person, 519 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:11,800 and it was her way or no way. 520 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,320 (UNSETTLING MUSIC) 521 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,200 So, two days, we received the results of the DNA test. 522 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,120 DNA that we derived from Christopher 523 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,840 had helped us positively identify the victim. 524 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,840 It showed that it was actually his father, John Sabine. 525 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,080 I was horrified. 526 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:43,360 I was sad. I was all these emotions. 527 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,160 Couldn't believe it, but I could believe it. 528 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:48,880 And I felt sorry for John. 529 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,840 I thought, "You poor man." 530 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:59,760 He wasn't perfect, but I felt sad for my father. 531 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,720 In the little time I knew him, he always seemed placid to me. 532 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,560 In New Zealand, when the press were going, 533 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,040 he would be just about crying, you know. 534 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:12,840 He was... It was too much for him. 535 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,400 I want it left alone. We'll leave 'em be. 536 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,440 All you're trying to do is to break the family up 537 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,080 and cause a lot of problems. Right, thank you. 538 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:22,920 When I was told to leave that home... 539 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:26,960 ..my father came running out with a parrot. 540 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,400 It was a hanging parrot that sat on the swing. 541 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,800 He had pulled that parrot off the swing, 542 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,200 and he gave it to me and told me he loved me. 543 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,440 And I think that's where this softness I hold is there for him. 544 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:49,680 I don't know that my mother knew about this parrot, 545 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,000 but she would have hated that. 546 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:01,320 The theory was that John Sabine was killed by Lee Sabine 547 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,640 some time in 1997. 548 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,160 But there was no hard evidence. 549 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,280 Confirming the identity of the body gave a number 550 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,600 of investigative options to me, 551 00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:14,360 one being the media. 552 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,320 You know, appealing for witnesses. 553 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,040 I formally named John Sabine as the victim 554 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,880 and that was the first time that his name had really gone out. 555 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,400 Welsh police have discovered the body of a man wrapped in plastic. 556 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:30,199 John Sabine was last seen 18 years ago.They lived all over the UK. 557 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,760 They kept no close friends, no close family members. 558 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,600 If you do know anything about this couple please call them on 101. 559 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,480 The most interesting phone call was from a lady called Valerie Chalkley. 560 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,480 She'd been friendly with the Sabines 561 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,280 when they returned from Australia in 1984 and were living in Reading. 562 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:55,000 She was a strange, strange person, she really, she really was. 563 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,600 Valerie Chalkley tells the story 564 00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,000 of how she lost touch with John and Leigh. 565 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,360 For a number of years, she didn't speak to them, 566 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,720 and she says, "I get a phone call out of the blue and it's Leigh Sabine." 567 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,080 And she put the date around 1997. 568 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:13,040 Valerie Chalkley just asked her, "How are you? How's John?" 569 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:15,960 She said, "I've killed him." 570 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,760 I said, "Er..." She said, "Yeah, I've killed him. 571 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,400 "I've battered him with a stone frog 572 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,160 "because he was getting on my nerves." 573 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,520 And I thought, "Oh, she's having me on." 574 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,360 She could out with statements that were totally ridiculous, 575 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,880 and you know when you feel a bit of fool and think, "I feel a fool," 576 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:40,120 and if I said, "Is that true?" she'd say, "Course it isn't," you know. 577 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,120 Then she goes on to talk about other things. 578 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,840 Changed the subject completely. 579 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,760 She was a show woman, she really was. 580 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,840 If she could have written her life story, 581 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:54,400 this is what she would have done. 582 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,800 This is how she would have wanted it. 583 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,680 People talking about her, leaving an impression. 584 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:06,360 Listening to what she told me, I wasn't sure what to make of it. 585 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:10,920 This was so bizarre, this information. How credible was this? 586 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,960 We weren't sure whether this was the missing piece of the puzzle, 587 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,040 this was actually it, or whether it's a weird story. 588 00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:20,360 This ornamental frog that has been used, 589 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:24,360 potentially, as a murder weapon to kill John, we have to trace it. 590 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,640 How we gonna do that? It's been 18 years. 591 00:36:32,085 --> 00:36:35,040 (GENTLE MUSIC) 592 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:43,720 CID contacted me and asked me if I'd ever seen this frog, 593 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,640 and I said, "Well, it used to be propping Leigh's bedroom door open." 594 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,920 I just tasked the officers to go back and speak to Lee's neighbours. 595 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,640 We started doing some inquiries, 596 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:58,440 and the very first place we go 597 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,920 is to the resident downstairs who was arrested as a suspect. 598 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,240 That was a sensitive inquiry cos Michelle James was quite upset 599 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,520 over the fact that she'd been arrested in this case. 600 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,040 We ask her, "Is there any other boxes belonging to Leigh?" 601 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,400 She said, "Oh, I think there's a box on top of my fridge." 602 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,400 And there it was. 603 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,640 Both our eyes lit up, you know, thinking, "That it might be it." 604 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,600 What the pathologist was able to do was produce digital imagery. 605 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:34,760 You could see where that frog had been driven into the skull. 606 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:36,960 It was a perfect overlay. 607 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:42,120 My theory is, John Sabine had gone to bed, fallen asleep. 608 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,160 They may have had an argument earlier that night. 609 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,960 And then she's grabbed that stone frog 610 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,040 and she's attacked him with some significant blows to the head 611 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:52,840 which have ended his life. 612 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,760 It just didn't seem real. It's so far-fetched. 613 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,400 18 years and no-one missed him, you know? 614 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,120 Oh, God. 615 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:11,360 Part of me thinks that my father was always feeling bad 616 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,960 that he had left us again. 617 00:38:16,240 --> 00:38:22,320 I think she didn't wanna hear it and hit him over the head to shut him up. 618 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:27,120 She just disposed of him like she did everybody else. 619 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,040 She got away with murder, 620 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,080 she got away with so much in her life. 621 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,920 You know, I can't forgive someone for that. 622 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,200 Our father loved her unconditionally. 623 00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:42,720 He had nobody else, so he stayed with her, 624 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,480 and he paid a terrible price. 625 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:57,080 This is the ring that my father John had on him when they found the body. 626 00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,880 There's nothing much else. 627 00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:02,160 Nothing. Nothing at all, no photos, 628 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,120 no nothing. 629 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,280 At his funeral, 630 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,600 there's nobody there. Literally, nobody. 631 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:13,240 It was as if he was a ghost in the area that he lived. 632 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,400 Nobody can ever recognise him, 633 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:19,120 nobody ever saw him, nobody ever interacted with him, 634 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,640 but I think that's exactly how she wanted it to be. 635 00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:26,120 It was, er, coercive control. 636 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,760 A murder has been concealed for some 18 years, 637 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,480 and Ann Sabine kept up the facade that John Sabine left her, 638 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:34,960 or was with another woman, or had, indeed, died. 639 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:37,600 It's almost like Lee Sabine 640 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:39,640 was thinking ahead and setting traps for people. 641 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:43,720 The stone frog was actually sitting in Michelle's flat. 642 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:45,560 Leigh's even told Michelle James 643 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,560 this story around the medical skeleton. 644 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,360 It's really cruel, when you think of what Michelle James went through. 645 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:56,960 The impact that the murder had on Michelle was quite appalling. 646 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,080 If Lee had come clean, 647 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,320 she was dying, she couldn't have been brought to justice, 648 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,320 but there would have been more a sense of natural justice 649 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:11,120 if other people hadn't had to be implicated. 650 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,480 TV: "Mr Sabine was never reported as a missing person, 651 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,520 "and the circumstances of where his body was concealed 652 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:19,800 "is part of the ongoing investigation." 653 00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:26,200 Going into that flat, I can't recall seeing a big freezer. 654 00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:29,520 I can't recall seeing an attic door. There probably was. 655 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,200 Was that body in the loft? 656 00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:36,280 I think it was under the divan bed. 657 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:39,520 Under the bed? No way. 658 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,280 The only other possible place it could have been was in the garden. 659 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,520 Now, whether he was in the garden shed. 660 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:49,200 The only feasible place that it could have been stored 661 00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:52,120 was there was one sort of store cupboard where the meter was kept. 662 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,760 It would have had to be somewhere where she could have access 663 00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,360 to the body and continually wrap it 664 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,240 over a period of time, you know, 665 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,360 to prevent the smells and prevent any decomposition. 666 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,200 (INTRIGUING MUSIC) 667 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:19,840 But I absolutely felt that she had duped us. 668 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,640 She had this secret all along and was hiding it from us. 669 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,120 You don't think you have a murderer in the midst, 670 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,720 but, obviously, there was one right on our doorstep. 671 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,160 I felt angry with her afterwards because she was an outsider 672 00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,880 who'd been accepted, and she mocked that. 673 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:48,160 And she boasted that, "After I die I will be famous." 674 00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,440 And we laughed it off. 675 00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,480 She played a damn good part. 676 00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:00,720 An Oscar should have been awarded. 677 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,080 She wasn't an actor; she was a liar. 678 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:09,880 I do think she was evil, and those children suffered because of her. 679 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,840 I couldn't leave her with all the glory 680 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,680 of committing the perfect murder. 681 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:33,960 Because this story is not just about a murder, 682 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:35,800 it's about our lives. 683 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:48,120 I spent the majority of my life trying to figure out 684 00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:50,520 why our parents might have left, 685 00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:55,000 and the reality of what they did to us. 686 00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,640 All my life all I've wanted to do is be part of a family, 687 00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,120 good, bad or otherwise. I just wanted to belong to something. 688 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,600 And all my life, I never though we...I did. 689 00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,160 Last time I seen Lee-Ann was about three or four years ago. 690 00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,200 Hey, sis! 691 00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:17,880 Jane the same time. 692 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:19,960 (CHUCKLES) Hello! 693 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,960 I always wonder what our family would have been like 694 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,120 if we'd stayed together. 695 00:43:28,240 --> 00:43:33,600 Did you guys know our mother was abandoned when she was younger? 696 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:36,160 Yep, she told Marty and I. 697 00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:41,440 I don't feel one ounce of pity or sorrow or anything for her. 698 00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:43,800 Sorry, I don't. 699 00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,640 Why go and have five children and leave them, 700 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:48,320 when you know that pain? 701 00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,560 You know that pain of desertion, 702 00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:54,360 and yet she went and did it to us. 703 00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:05,800 But regardless of what my mother did, 704 00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:07,720 we're breaking the cycle. 705 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:13,000 I could never imagine putting my kids through what I went through. 706 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:15,840 My mother had a choice. 707 00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:19,480 Everyone's got to make a choice. 708 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:21,840 Could have kept going on the same route I was. 709 00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,480 I would either have been in jail for the rest of my life, 710 00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:26,280 or I would have been dead. 711 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,280 I knew that the only way out for me 712 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:36,920 was if I had a child to love and look after. 713 00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:38,840 That... 714 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:41,400 That would save me. 715 00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,920 When you have a baby, the love is instant. 716 00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:50,160 It's like the most amazing, beautiful thing in the world. 717 00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,720 My kids were the best thing that happened in my life. 718 00:44:57,880 --> 00:44:59,880 (SNIFFLES) Yeah. 719 00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:09,920 We've all come from a horrible place 720 00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:12,840 and done some amazing things in our lives. 721 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,080 You know, I own my own home... 722 00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,480 ..got children, got a lovely wife, you know. 723 00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:21,200 And I do love my wife. 724 00:45:21,240 --> 00:45:23,120 (LAUGHS) 725 00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:25,080 She wonders sometimes. 726 00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:31,400 I'm actually really proud of the kids we've turned out to be. 727 00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:35,080 We're good kids. We have hearts. 728 00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:38,240 Unlike her. 729 00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,280 (POIGNANT MUSIC) 730 00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,240 Subtitles by Sky Access Services www.skyaccessibility.sky 59798

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