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1
00:00:15,615 --> 00:00:18,051
-[theme music]
-[static on TV]
2
00:00:34,067 --> 00:00:38,972
♪
3
00:00:59,826 --> 00:01:04,197
♪
4
00:01:14,107 --> 00:01:15,208
[theme music concludes]
5
00:01:17,143 --> 00:01:20,880
[ominous music]
6
00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:25,785
[sirens blaring in distance]
7
00:01:27,387 --> 00:01:28,555
Sorry, ma'am.
8
00:01:28,555 --> 00:01:30,223
Unless you're a resident,
I can't let you in.
9
00:01:31,491 --> 00:01:34,160
Okay, um,
Officer McCoy called me.
10
00:01:35,762 --> 00:01:36,763
About my mom.
11
00:01:37,931 --> 00:01:41,267
-I'm, uh, sorry for your loss.
-It's okay. It's fine.
12
00:01:42,569 --> 00:01:44,037
You have five minutes. Room 304.
13
00:01:44,037 --> 00:01:45,972
[sighs] Okay. I remember.
14
00:01:46,306 --> 00:01:50,610
[eerie music]
15
00:01:51,144 --> 00:01:52,445
ABIGAIL: Thanks.
16
00:01:52,445 --> 00:01:56,649
♪
17
00:01:56,649 --> 00:01:57,951
[dog barking in distance]
18
00:02:11,364 --> 00:02:16,836
[eerie music]
19
00:02:17,103 --> 00:02:19,839
ZED: Hey, kid!
Where you been all day?
20
00:02:23,176 --> 00:02:26,613
[door creaking, closing]
21
00:02:26,613 --> 00:02:30,183
♪
22
00:02:33,786 --> 00:02:34,854
[sighs]
23
00:02:48,501 --> 00:02:53,139
[dark, sinister music]
24
00:03:05,852 --> 00:03:09,222
[eerie music continues]
25
00:03:19,966 --> 00:03:21,000
[sighs]
26
00:03:41,454 --> 00:03:45,758
[ominous music]
27
00:04:09,048 --> 00:04:11,718
[eerie music]
28
00:04:11,718 --> 00:04:16,089
♪
29
00:04:32,338 --> 00:04:35,675
There's some mashed taters
for you. I made them.
30
00:04:47,587 --> 00:04:48,454
So eat up.
31
00:04:50,523 --> 00:04:51,991
[door opens]
32
00:04:51,991 --> 00:04:55,928
[dark music]
33
00:04:55,928 --> 00:04:58,231
♪
34
00:04:58,231 --> 00:04:59,832
Oh, hey, sweety!
35
00:05:01,067 --> 00:05:03,336
[gasps] Oh!
36
00:05:04,637 --> 00:05:08,007
How cute!
You're having dinner together?
37
00:05:08,608 --> 00:05:10,376
Can I-- can I join?
38
00:05:10,977 --> 00:05:12,278
-[door opens]
-[gasps]
39
00:05:12,278 --> 00:05:14,681
Smile! Say hi to the camera.
40
00:05:15,615 --> 00:05:18,651
-Where did you get that?!
-I traded my chain for it.
41
00:05:19,552 --> 00:05:20,820
I thought you'd like it.
42
00:05:20,820 --> 00:05:22,555
We can, like,
make films and stuff.
43
00:05:22,555 --> 00:05:24,023
Like, you know, like
Family Dinner.
44
00:05:24,023 --> 00:05:25,058
[grunts]
45
00:05:25,058 --> 00:05:27,960
We said we were saving that,
you fucking idiot!
46
00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,096
It's okay.
We've got enough for the week.
47
00:05:30,096 --> 00:05:31,164
I'll sort it out.
48
00:05:31,798 --> 00:05:33,733
I'm not going back out
on the streets again!
49
00:05:33,933 --> 00:05:36,569
ZED: Okay, okay.
I know, I know. Chill.
50
00:05:36,569 --> 00:05:38,705
SUSAN: Chill?
You're telling me to chill?
51
00:05:38,705 --> 00:05:41,474
You... you fucking idiot!
52
00:05:42,408 --> 00:05:43,943
Come on, let's go!
53
00:05:43,943 --> 00:05:46,479
[unsettling music]
54
00:05:46,713 --> 00:05:48,848
[objects clattering, thudding]
55
00:05:49,048 --> 00:05:50,950
[door opens]
56
00:05:50,950 --> 00:05:51,984
SUSAN: Abby?
57
00:05:51,984 --> 00:05:53,720
Make sure you put Betsy away.
58
00:05:54,354 --> 00:05:55,421
Idiot!
59
00:05:56,022 --> 00:05:57,357
[glass shattering]
60
00:05:57,757 --> 00:06:00,126
-SUSAN: What did I tell you?
-ZED: It's not a big deal!
61
00:06:00,126 --> 00:06:02,395
SUSAN: It is a big deal!
We don't have enough money!
62
00:06:03,029 --> 00:06:04,897
Now, take that back,
you hear me?
63
00:06:04,897 --> 00:06:08,434
[indistinct arguing]
64
00:06:08,434 --> 00:06:12,839
[dark rock music]
65
00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,242
[Zed shouting indistinctly]
66
00:06:16,242 --> 00:06:20,713
♪
67
00:06:20,713 --> 00:06:23,683
TIFFANY: One, two, three,
68
00:06:24,016 --> 00:06:27,687
four, five, six, seven,
69
00:06:28,020 --> 00:06:30,156
eight, nine, ten.
70
00:06:30,156 --> 00:06:31,190
Ready or not, here I come!
71
00:06:33,226 --> 00:06:34,861
I'm coming to find you...
72
00:06:35,261 --> 00:06:38,431
[birds chirping]
73
00:06:51,043 --> 00:06:52,578
[birds chirping]
74
00:06:54,881 --> 00:06:56,449
TIFFANY: [in distance]
Where are you?
75
00:07:02,054 --> 00:07:07,727
[soft, ethereal music]
76
00:07:07,727 --> 00:07:13,132
♪
77
00:07:31,517 --> 00:07:35,254
[voices whispering indistinctly]
78
00:07:38,291 --> 00:07:40,159
WOMAN: [in distance]
Tiff, come on home, honey!
79
00:07:40,159 --> 00:07:42,295
Dinner's ready!
Time to come home!
80
00:07:42,762 --> 00:07:44,297
Now, please! It's getting dark!
81
00:07:44,497 --> 00:07:45,631
No, wait!
82
00:07:46,933 --> 00:07:48,334
I have something to show you.
83
00:07:55,541 --> 00:07:56,542
Hey!
84
00:07:57,176 --> 00:07:58,244
You're still it.
85
00:07:58,544 --> 00:08:01,113
I have to go.
Don't you have dinner time?
86
00:08:02,615 --> 00:08:03,783
Bye!
87
00:08:03,983 --> 00:08:07,186
[dog barking in distance]
88
00:08:07,887 --> 00:08:09,021
ABIGAIL: Bye.
89
00:08:09,021 --> 00:08:12,425
[birds chirping]
90
00:08:12,425 --> 00:08:18,264
[soft, melancholic music]
91
00:08:18,264 --> 00:08:19,799
[dog barking in distance]
92
00:08:24,570 --> 00:08:25,738
[flashlight button clicks]
93
00:08:25,738 --> 00:08:29,509
[soft, ethereal music]
94
00:08:29,509 --> 00:08:31,344
ABIGAIL:
The Fairy in the Forest.
95
00:08:34,447 --> 00:08:37,016
"Once upon a time,
there was a girl named Elle."
96
00:08:39,852 --> 00:08:42,655
"Who wished for a better life
but was under a spell."
97
00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,195
"Until one day,
a fairy heard these cries
98
00:08:49,829 --> 00:08:52,598
and swooped down
to find her from the skies."
99
00:08:53,900 --> 00:08:55,668
"The fairy said,
'Elle, follow me.'"
100
00:08:55,902 --> 00:08:58,504
"'I'll teach you to make
your dreams a reality.'"
101
00:09:05,177 --> 00:09:07,346
"So off they went,
down a winding river,
102
00:09:08,748 --> 00:09:11,584
but what they found
would make Elle quiver."
103
00:09:13,719 --> 00:09:15,888
"Hidden in the woods,
there was a cave."
104
00:09:15,888 --> 00:09:18,491
"To pass through,
she'd have to be brave."
105
00:09:19,926 --> 00:09:20,960
[exhales]
106
00:09:23,696 --> 00:09:25,565
"The fairy said,
'Follow your heart
107
00:09:25,565 --> 00:09:27,199
and it shall light the way,
108
00:09:27,633 --> 00:09:30,903
or in the darkness
forever you shall stay.'"
109
00:09:37,209 --> 00:09:40,046
"For even things
that are dark and scary
110
00:09:40,046 --> 00:09:42,748
can still be fit
for girls and fairies."
111
00:09:48,087 --> 00:09:51,123
"So Elle went through the cave,
following the stream."
112
00:09:51,524 --> 00:09:54,527
"She followed her heart
and chased her dreams."
113
00:09:56,896 --> 00:09:59,065
"And what she found
would break the spell,
114
00:10:00,533 --> 00:10:03,603
for on the other side,
she met the new Elle."
115
00:10:03,603 --> 00:10:06,405
[unsettling, intriguing music]
116
00:10:06,405 --> 00:10:11,544
♪
117
00:10:20,953 --> 00:10:22,221
ABIGAIL: Hurry!
118
00:10:22,221 --> 00:10:23,456
TIFFANY: Where are we going?
119
00:10:23,789 --> 00:10:25,391
You'll see! Come on!
120
00:10:38,104 --> 00:10:39,872
Don't worry. Come on
121
00:10:39,872 --> 00:10:42,008
WOMAN: Tiff? I told you
not to play by the river!
122
00:10:42,008 --> 00:10:44,844
-It's fine. Come on.
-I can't!
123
00:10:45,578 --> 00:10:46,612
Why not?
124
00:10:46,846 --> 00:10:48,147
I'm not allowed.
125
00:10:48,447 --> 00:10:50,883
Why? Wh--
Where are you going?
126
00:10:51,283 --> 00:10:52,418
Wait up!
127
00:10:53,653 --> 00:10:59,058
[soft, ethereal music]
128
00:10:59,058 --> 00:11:02,995
♪
129
00:11:02,995 --> 00:11:05,031
[stream trickling]
130
00:11:10,436 --> 00:11:12,672
[wings fluttering]
131
00:11:12,672 --> 00:11:14,006
[gasps]
132
00:11:14,006 --> 00:11:19,045
[ethereal music continues]
133
00:11:19,912 --> 00:11:21,313
[wings fluttering]
134
00:11:22,915 --> 00:11:27,386
[voices whispering indistinctly]
135
00:11:38,831 --> 00:11:41,834
[light switch clicking]
136
00:11:46,372 --> 00:11:47,873
[shuffling]
137
00:11:47,873 --> 00:11:49,008
[flashlight button clicks]
138
00:11:52,578 --> 00:11:53,546
Betsy?
139
00:11:57,016 --> 00:11:58,117
[loud bang]
140
00:11:58,117 --> 00:11:59,852
[breathing shakily]
141
00:12:03,489 --> 00:12:04,757
Where are you?
142
00:12:04,757 --> 00:12:08,928
[ominous music]
143
00:12:08,928 --> 00:12:11,797
♪
144
00:12:11,797 --> 00:12:12,865
ABIGAIL: Betsy!
145
00:12:13,432 --> 00:12:14,600
Don't be scared.
146
00:12:16,535 --> 00:12:17,536
It's okay.
147
00:12:19,438 --> 00:12:20,906
Can I tell you a secret?
148
00:12:21,407 --> 00:12:22,975
A secret you can't tell anyone?
149
00:12:25,277 --> 00:12:27,446
[sighs] I found a cave
in the forest.
150
00:12:27,713 --> 00:12:28,948
There's a fairy.
151
00:12:29,415 --> 00:12:32,518
She took me there,
just like Elle.
152
00:12:34,553 --> 00:12:35,888
It's our secret, okay?
153
00:12:37,523 --> 00:12:39,759
[shushes]
154
00:12:40,092 --> 00:12:42,762
[sighs, breathes deeply]
155
00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:49,602
-[footsteps approaching]
-[door bangs open]
156
00:12:50,302 --> 00:12:53,372
[object thudding, clattering]
157
00:12:57,476 --> 00:13:00,780
Fuck! Oh, fuck, fuck!
158
00:13:05,084 --> 00:13:08,320
Fuck! Fu-- [sobs]
159
00:13:10,389 --> 00:13:11,824
How could this happen?
160
00:13:12,024 --> 00:13:15,628
[dark music]
161
00:13:15,628 --> 00:13:18,164
-[cabinet doors banging]
-[gasps]
162
00:13:18,164 --> 00:13:20,733
Zed? We're gonna have
to pawn!
163
00:13:20,733 --> 00:13:24,436
♪
164
00:13:28,107 --> 00:13:29,775
-ABIGAIL: No...
-[Susan grunts]
165
00:13:31,577 --> 00:13:33,512
Oh! Uh, Abby?
166
00:13:33,879 --> 00:13:35,648
Mommy's gonna need
to borrow your book
167
00:13:35,648 --> 00:13:37,283
for a little while, okay?
168
00:13:37,283 --> 00:13:38,784
No. No, I need it.
169
00:13:39,018 --> 00:13:40,886
I'll get sick
if I don't take it.
170
00:13:40,886 --> 00:13:44,523
Oh, I-- I need
my medicine, okay? [whimpers]
171
00:13:44,523 --> 00:13:45,524
You don't want Mommy...
172
00:13:45,524 --> 00:13:47,226
-Please!
-SUSAN: ...to get sick, do you?
173
00:13:47,226 --> 00:13:49,862
-This can go, I guess.
-[gasps]
174
00:13:49,862 --> 00:13:52,198
Just let the kid
keep the book, all right?
175
00:13:52,431 --> 00:13:54,533
I don't give a fuckin' bullshit.
176
00:13:54,533 --> 00:13:56,001
It's all gotta go.
177
00:13:56,969 --> 00:13:58,504
And it's your fault!
178
00:13:59,038 --> 00:14:00,639
Mommy, please.
179
00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:02,308
That's enough, Abigail!
180
00:14:02,308 --> 00:14:04,977
-Please, please.
-Don't be so fuckin' selfish!
181
00:14:05,611 --> 00:14:07,513
-Please...
-SUSAN: Zed, get the box!
182
00:14:11,450 --> 00:14:12,718
ZED: I'm sorry, kid.
183
00:14:13,319 --> 00:14:14,620
[cassette ejecting]
184
00:14:18,724 --> 00:14:21,927
ABIGAIL: Please, Zed, please.
Don't let Mom take it.
185
00:14:27,933 --> 00:14:30,636
Please, Zed, please!
No, no, Zed, please!
186
00:14:31,337 --> 00:14:33,739
[screams]
187
00:14:35,274 --> 00:14:41,013
[soft, ethereal music]
188
00:14:41,013 --> 00:14:45,584
[birds chirping]
189
00:14:45,584 --> 00:14:51,023
♪
190
00:14:53,692 --> 00:14:57,696
[wings fluttering]
191
00:15:03,135 --> 00:15:06,272
[wings fluttering]
192
00:15:10,976 --> 00:15:17,082
[voices whispering indistinctly]
193
00:15:18,684 --> 00:15:21,420
[children's laughs echoing]
194
00:15:21,420 --> 00:15:22,554
ABIGAIL: Hello?
195
00:15:22,554 --> 00:15:24,790
[laughing continues]
196
00:15:25,557 --> 00:15:26,558
ABIGAIL: Hello?
197
00:15:28,394 --> 00:15:30,629
Hey, kid! Get outta there!
198
00:15:30,629 --> 00:15:31,931
It's not safe!
199
00:15:33,599 --> 00:15:35,601
Geez, what are you doin'
in there?
200
00:15:35,601 --> 00:15:37,336
Where are your parents at?
201
00:15:38,637 --> 00:15:40,973
It's not safe for kids
to be playing down here.
202
00:15:43,242 --> 00:15:46,412
[sighs] Let's try this again.
203
00:15:46,412 --> 00:15:47,980
Why don't you just
tell me your name?
204
00:15:48,814 --> 00:15:49,982
Abigail.
205
00:15:50,249 --> 00:15:52,117
Okay, Abigail.
Where do you live?
206
00:15:56,555 --> 00:15:57,990
In one of the complexes?
207
00:15:59,825 --> 00:16:00,926
Why don't you show me?
208
00:16:06,365 --> 00:16:11,770
[ominous music]
209
00:16:11,770 --> 00:16:15,474
♪
210
00:16:15,908 --> 00:16:17,042
Hey, kid!
211
00:16:17,843 --> 00:16:18,978
Which apartment is yours?
212
00:16:20,846 --> 00:16:21,847
ABIGAIL: 304.
213
00:16:27,152 --> 00:16:28,687
[gasps] Betsy...
214
00:16:30,222 --> 00:16:31,490
Thanks, mister!
215
00:16:32,791 --> 00:16:35,661
[mysterious music]
216
00:16:35,661 --> 00:16:39,064
♪
217
00:16:39,331 --> 00:16:40,499
ABIGAIL: Betsy?
218
00:16:46,872 --> 00:16:48,073
[gasps]
219
00:16:58,817 --> 00:17:01,053
[eerie music]
220
00:17:01,053 --> 00:17:02,021
[groans softly]
221
00:17:08,027 --> 00:17:09,795
[children's laughs echoing]
222
00:17:10,496 --> 00:17:12,664
ABIGAIL: "Hidden in the woods,
there was a cave."
223
00:17:14,266 --> 00:17:16,869
"To pass through,
she'd have to be brave."
224
00:17:18,103 --> 00:17:20,439
"Follow your heart
and it shall light the way,
225
00:17:22,341 --> 00:17:25,210
or in the darkness
forever you shall stay."
226
00:17:26,545 --> 00:17:28,647
You shouldn't have to be here.
227
00:17:28,647 --> 00:17:31,650
♪
228
00:17:31,650 --> 00:17:32,651
[groans softly]
229
00:17:36,188 --> 00:17:38,057
FEMALE VOICE:
[whispering] Forest...
230
00:17:46,298 --> 00:17:50,369
[sirens wailing]
231
00:17:50,369 --> 00:17:54,840
[ominous music]
232
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:59,778
[sirens continue wailing]
233
00:18:04,716 --> 00:18:09,688
♪
234
00:18:20,632 --> 00:18:22,067
[indistinct chatter
over police radio]
235
00:18:22,067 --> 00:18:25,471
[suspenseful music]
236
00:18:25,471 --> 00:18:31,310
♪
237
00:18:31,310 --> 00:18:34,313
[indistinct chatter
over police radio continues]
238
00:18:37,149 --> 00:18:38,484
Abby!
239
00:18:38,484 --> 00:18:41,453
Oh. What is she doing?
240
00:18:41,453 --> 00:18:43,088
Abby, come back here!
241
00:18:43,622 --> 00:18:45,591
Go get her right now!
242
00:18:46,825 --> 00:18:48,427
Oh! [sobs]
243
00:18:48,427 --> 00:18:51,830
[indistinct chatter
over police radio]
244
00:18:56,735 --> 00:18:57,836
POLICE OFFICER: Down here!
245
00:18:57,836 --> 00:19:01,673
[dark, ominous music]
246
00:19:01,673 --> 00:19:05,978
♪
247
00:19:07,112 --> 00:19:10,482
[Abigail panting]
248
00:19:17,756 --> 00:19:21,126
[unsettling, enchanting music]
249
00:19:21,126 --> 00:19:26,498
♪
250
00:19:31,470 --> 00:19:36,341
[soft, ethereal music]
251
00:19:36,341 --> 00:19:39,044
♪
252
00:19:39,044 --> 00:19:40,579
ABIGAIL: I love you, Betsy.
253
00:19:41,046 --> 00:19:44,850
♪
254
00:19:44,850 --> 00:19:49,855
[children's laughs echoing]
255
00:19:56,662 --> 00:19:58,263
ABIGAIL: Follow your heart.
256
00:19:58,263 --> 00:20:01,733
♪
257
00:20:08,073 --> 00:20:09,241
ABIGAIL: No, no!
258
00:20:09,241 --> 00:20:10,742
No, no, no, no!
259
00:20:11,343 --> 00:20:13,712
No, no, please! Please, please!
260
00:20:13,712 --> 00:20:16,582
Wait, no! No! No, Betsy!
261
00:20:16,582 --> 00:20:18,750
Betsy! No!
262
00:20:23,722 --> 00:20:28,727
[indistinct chatter
over police radio]
263
00:20:40,405 --> 00:20:43,709
[Susan sobbing]
264
00:20:43,709 --> 00:20:47,412
[dark music]
265
00:20:47,412 --> 00:20:51,850
♪
266
00:21:02,127 --> 00:21:03,195
[exhales]
267
00:21:08,133 --> 00:21:11,069
[dark music]
268
00:21:11,069 --> 00:21:11,970
[exhales]
269
00:21:13,071 --> 00:21:14,139
[sniffles]
270
00:21:14,139 --> 00:21:16,041
♪
271
00:21:16,041 --> 00:21:16,942
[exhales]
272
00:21:25,517 --> 00:21:26,451
[exhales]
273
00:21:39,364 --> 00:21:41,099
[sighs]
274
00:21:41,967 --> 00:21:42,901
[sniffles]
275
00:21:43,502 --> 00:21:44,636
[button clicks]
276
00:21:44,636 --> 00:21:46,104
[static crackling over TV]
277
00:21:55,914 --> 00:21:57,683
-[shushes]
-SUSAN: Zed?
278
00:22:02,321 --> 00:22:04,456
ZED: Smile!
Say hi to the camera!
279
00:22:04,990 --> 00:22:06,458
Where did you get that?
280
00:22:06,458 --> 00:22:08,960
ZED: Pretty cool, right?
I traded my chain for it.
281
00:22:09,494 --> 00:22:12,964
-You did what?
-I thought you'd like it.
282
00:22:12,964 --> 00:22:14,800
We can, like,
make films and stuff.
283
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:16,668
Like, you know,
like Family Dinner.
284
00:22:16,668 --> 00:22:20,038
[haunting, ethereal music]
285
00:22:20,038 --> 00:22:22,974
♪
286
00:22:22,974 --> 00:22:24,576
No, no.
287
00:22:25,377 --> 00:22:27,412
-[gasps]
-[wine pouring]
288
00:22:27,412 --> 00:22:28,513
[stream trickling]
289
00:22:28,513 --> 00:22:30,549
ABIGAIL: "Hidden in
the woods, there was a cave."
290
00:22:30,549 --> 00:22:32,951
"To pass through,
she'd have to be brave."
291
00:22:32,951 --> 00:22:33,885
[cries]
292
00:22:34,152 --> 00:22:36,288
ABIGAIL: "Follow your heart
and it shall light the way,
293
00:22:36,988 --> 00:22:39,958
or in the darkness
forever you shall stay."
294
00:22:39,958 --> 00:22:41,159
[baby crying]
295
00:22:41,159 --> 00:22:42,694
ADULT ABIGAIL:
[sobbing] No, no.
296
00:22:42,694 --> 00:22:45,430
No, no, no, no.
I'm sorry. [sobbing]
297
00:22:45,430 --> 00:22:46,598
[baby crying]
298
00:22:46,598 --> 00:22:50,435
[Abigail sobbing]
299
00:22:52,604 --> 00:22:53,705
[static on TV]
300
00:23:06,451 --> 00:23:07,753
Welcome back from The Void.
301
00:23:08,153 --> 00:23:09,187
Thanks for watching.
302
00:23:09,454 --> 00:23:13,158
I'm David Cummings, the creator
and host of The NoSleep Podcast,
303
00:23:13,358 --> 00:23:16,795
and today, we're joined
by author Rebecca Klingel,
304
00:23:16,795 --> 00:23:19,765
author of the NoSleep story,
Betsy the Doll,
305
00:23:19,765 --> 00:23:22,901
which we adapted into
the episode, "Plastic Smile."
306
00:23:23,635 --> 00:23:26,004
Welcome, Rebecca.
Thanks for joining us today.
307
00:23:26,338 --> 00:23:27,639
Thank you.
It's great to be here.
308
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,342
We've just experienced
your story.
309
00:23:30,342 --> 00:23:33,111
It's been around now for,
I guess, almost ten years.
310
00:23:33,345 --> 00:23:35,814
Um, what inspired you?
311
00:23:35,814 --> 00:23:38,383
Where did
that twisted story come from?
312
00:23:38,583 --> 00:23:43,121
With Betsy the Doll, I believe,
like with a lot of my stories,
313
00:23:43,121 --> 00:23:45,557
especially in those
first few years on NoSleep,
314
00:23:45,557 --> 00:23:47,192
I reverse engineered it.
315
00:23:47,492 --> 00:23:52,030
Um, you know, dolls are very
kind of scary to me anyway,
316
00:23:52,364 --> 00:23:54,933
um, and I thought,
maybe I could make a story
317
00:23:54,933 --> 00:23:57,135
with a doll that has
a really good twist,
318
00:23:57,135 --> 00:23:58,236
since I love twists.
319
00:23:58,236 --> 00:23:59,905
So, I kind of started
with the twist
320
00:24:00,138 --> 00:24:01,673
and then worked backwards
321
00:24:01,673 --> 00:24:03,141
trying to see, like,
what characters
322
00:24:03,141 --> 00:24:04,509
would fit that really well,
323
00:24:04,509 --> 00:24:08,580
like, how can I economize
the space that I have to just
324
00:24:08,580 --> 00:24:10,982
give them enough to...
to... to... um...
325
00:24:11,283 --> 00:24:13,084
be invested
and then just hit them
326
00:24:13,084 --> 00:24:15,487
with that sucker punch
at the end, that, you know...
327
00:24:15,487 --> 00:24:16,621
And I do this a lot
328
00:24:16,621 --> 00:24:19,090
with the "humans were
the monster all along,"
329
00:24:19,090 --> 00:24:20,926
but Betsy was really
the start of that.
330
00:24:21,326 --> 00:24:23,962
Right. I was so hoping
your answer was going to be,
331
00:24:23,962 --> 00:24:25,330
"Oh, that's exactly
what happened to me
332
00:24:25,330 --> 00:24:27,833
-when I was a girl."
-[laughs]
333
00:24:28,533 --> 00:24:30,502
Um, now, on NoSleep,
334
00:24:30,502 --> 00:24:33,004
and not just the subreddit,
but the podcast,
335
00:24:33,004 --> 00:24:35,540
you have written some of
the most popular stories,
336
00:24:35,874 --> 00:24:38,176
some of the classics, Room 733,
337
00:24:38,510 --> 00:24:41,146
which was so fun to do
on the podcast,
338
00:24:41,146 --> 00:24:44,449
and I know a lot of your stories
tend to have
339
00:24:44,449 --> 00:24:46,151
that... that twist at the end
340
00:24:46,151 --> 00:24:50,355
or that completely change--
completely changed directions.
341
00:24:50,355 --> 00:24:53,892
Do you tend to go into stories
thinking always of a twist,
342
00:24:54,092 --> 00:24:55,894
or is that just--
that's just something
343
00:24:55,894 --> 00:24:58,330
that sort of naturally evolves
in the story?
344
00:24:59,831 --> 00:25:02,033
Uh, no, the twist
is the first thing.
345
00:25:02,033 --> 00:25:03,902
With me, the twist
is the first thing,
346
00:25:03,902 --> 00:25:05,704
and then I build around that.
347
00:25:05,704 --> 00:25:08,707
Um, character is really fun,
it's not very hard,
348
00:25:08,707 --> 00:25:12,177
you know, but the twist
and the kind of mechanics of it,
349
00:25:12,177 --> 00:25:13,345
and how you're going to hide it
350
00:25:13,745 --> 00:25:16,648
and how deep you're going
to twist the knife, um,
351
00:25:17,215 --> 00:25:21,720
those are really where I start
with a horror story, is there,
352
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,857
because if you can land all
of that and you're not worried
353
00:25:25,857 --> 00:25:29,594
about having good characters,
then you're done, you know?
354
00:25:30,462 --> 00:25:32,464
So, you're a parent,
you have kids,
355
00:25:32,464 --> 00:25:36,234
and I'm curious how you...
how you start to craft stories
356
00:25:36,234 --> 00:25:39,671
where there may be children
who are going through trauma
357
00:25:39,671 --> 00:25:42,774
or experiencing
some dire situations?
358
00:25:43,008 --> 00:25:44,743
Do you feel like
you want to lean in
359
00:25:44,743 --> 00:25:45,777
to that kind of trauma?
360
00:25:46,344 --> 00:25:49,180
Hmm, yeah. I would say,
361
00:25:49,180 --> 00:25:51,783
people that read my stuff
probably wouldn't... [chuckles]
362
00:25:51,783 --> 00:25:54,853
...would-- probably would say
that I do lean into it.
363
00:25:55,220 --> 00:25:57,722
Um, and-- But I think
there's a line,
364
00:25:57,722 --> 00:25:59,524
and it's really a balancing act.
365
00:25:59,524 --> 00:26:02,027
You know, Betsy is--
It deals with a lot of trauma,
366
00:26:02,027 --> 00:26:04,963
but it's really about
kind of the fog of childhood,
367
00:26:05,196 --> 00:26:07,866
and realizing things
in adulthood
368
00:26:07,866 --> 00:26:09,434
that kind of horrify you about
369
00:26:09,434 --> 00:26:11,236
what was really going on
back then,
370
00:26:11,236 --> 00:26:13,171
but you were too young
to understand.
371
00:26:13,371 --> 00:26:15,407
So, I find that really relatable
372
00:26:15,407 --> 00:26:16,508
across the board.
373
00:26:16,975 --> 00:26:18,410
Absolutely, absolutely.
374
00:26:18,410 --> 00:26:20,779
Now, we'll transition
from the, uh,
375
00:26:21,079 --> 00:26:24,049
the morbid children
being in peril,
376
00:26:24,516 --> 00:26:25,984
to the great news, which is,
377
00:26:25,984 --> 00:26:28,119
you have taken
your writing career
378
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,555
from NoSleep
and you've published novels,
379
00:26:30,555 --> 00:26:34,659
and now you've transitioned
into writing for television,
380
00:26:34,659 --> 00:26:35,961
writing for the screen.
381
00:26:36,428 --> 00:26:38,763
Uh, what has that journey
been like for you?
382
00:26:38,763 --> 00:26:40,432
You know, it was a bit bumpy.
383
00:26:40,432 --> 00:26:43,468
Um, I had never written
a screenplay
384
00:26:43,468 --> 00:26:49,541
before writing for
The Haunting of Hill House.
385
00:26:49,541 --> 00:26:53,411
And I had to look on YouTube
how to do it.
386
00:26:53,411 --> 00:26:57,248
I found it difficult,
because with prose,
387
00:26:57,248 --> 00:26:59,551
you know,
it just-- It flows out of you,
388
00:26:59,551 --> 00:27:00,819
you can write
whatever you want,
389
00:27:00,819 --> 00:27:02,454
you don't have to worry
about shoot-ability,
390
00:27:02,454 --> 00:27:04,422
or budget,
or anything like that,
391
00:27:04,422 --> 00:27:07,392
and location management.
Um, and then with script,
392
00:27:07,392 --> 00:27:09,761
you can't get into
characters' heads,
393
00:27:09,761 --> 00:27:13,832
you have to find different,
um, interesting,
394
00:27:13,832 --> 00:27:16,267
sometimes experimental,
ways to show things.
395
00:27:16,668 --> 00:27:18,003
Uh, so it was actually
396
00:27:18,003 --> 00:27:21,272
a challenge, because I went from
writing whatever I want
397
00:27:21,272 --> 00:27:22,974
to now I have notes,
and I have to write
398
00:27:22,974 --> 00:27:25,610
in a specific way, and you know,
"You can't end it that way,
399
00:27:25,610 --> 00:27:26,878
and we can't have
that character,"
400
00:27:26,878 --> 00:27:30,782
so, um, it was difficult,
but I really enjoyed it.
401
00:27:30,782 --> 00:27:33,284
There's really something
about writing something
402
00:27:33,284 --> 00:27:36,287
and then seeing
a large group of people
403
00:27:36,287 --> 00:27:38,723
bring it to life on the screen.
404
00:27:38,723 --> 00:27:41,526
I mean, that's just,
um, it's wonderful.
405
00:27:41,526 --> 00:27:42,427
It's wonderful.
406
00:27:42,694 --> 00:27:45,597
That's right. Now,
you've done a lot of writing
407
00:27:45,597 --> 00:27:47,532
with director Mike Flanagan.
408
00:27:47,799 --> 00:27:49,200
What happens
with a lot of people
409
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:50,602
when they watch shows
like that,
410
00:27:50,602 --> 00:27:52,137
they don't necessarily realize
411
00:27:52,137 --> 00:27:55,173
that it's not
just necessarily one writer,
412
00:27:55,373 --> 00:27:57,909
and you work in what we call
the writers' room,
413
00:27:57,909 --> 00:27:59,144
and so you're collaborating
414
00:27:59,144 --> 00:28:00,478
with a bunch
of different people.
415
00:28:00,879 --> 00:28:02,647
How has that process
been for you?
416
00:28:02,647 --> 00:28:04,916
Uh, I love it.
But I really think
417
00:28:04,916 --> 00:28:06,918
that NoSleep kind of
helped prep me for that
418
00:28:06,918 --> 00:28:08,887
because I had been writing
on my own.
419
00:28:09,220 --> 00:28:10,388
And then finding NoSleep,
420
00:28:10,388 --> 00:28:12,290
there was a lot
of collaborations,
421
00:28:12,290 --> 00:28:14,292
and projects, and fun things
422
00:28:14,292 --> 00:28:15,627
that you would do
with other writers,
423
00:28:15,627 --> 00:28:18,196
so it wasn't too different
from a writers' room.
424
00:28:18,563 --> 00:28:21,099
But writing in a writers' room
is a lot of fun
425
00:28:21,099 --> 00:28:23,735
because you can--
You are free to throw out--
426
00:28:23,735 --> 00:28:26,538
Even if you have a crappy idea,
you can throw it out there,
427
00:28:26,538 --> 00:28:27,939
because people can
kind of understand
428
00:28:27,939 --> 00:28:29,941
what you're getting at,
and then it develops from there.
429
00:28:30,341 --> 00:28:32,377
So, it's just a lot more
430
00:28:32,377 --> 00:28:36,214
brains' creativity going into
a story than just one.
431
00:28:36,781 --> 00:28:39,417
So, I mentioned earlier that
the story Betsy the Doll
432
00:28:39,417 --> 00:28:41,219
was written
almost ten years ago,
433
00:28:41,219 --> 00:28:44,522
and it's been adapted
a number of different times.
434
00:28:44,522 --> 00:28:46,558
It's been on
The NoSleep Podcast.
435
00:28:46,558 --> 00:28:48,359
I'm sure there are
other horror narrators
436
00:28:48,359 --> 00:28:49,494
who have done it.
437
00:28:49,494 --> 00:28:51,730
And now, it's been brought
to the screen.
438
00:28:52,130 --> 00:28:54,399
What is it that you think is...
439
00:28:54,933 --> 00:28:56,801
that has made this story
so compelling?
440
00:28:56,801 --> 00:29:00,105
What is it that the audiences
have really kind of latched onto
441
00:29:00,105 --> 00:29:04,509
with this story, that people
want to perform it, express it,
442
00:29:04,509 --> 00:29:07,345
and that obviously people
enjoy consuming it?
443
00:29:09,347 --> 00:29:11,082
Yeah, you know, I think--
444
00:29:11,282 --> 00:29:13,084
I really think
with Betsy with Doll,
445
00:29:13,084 --> 00:29:16,921
it's because people would
have been satisfied with a story
446
00:29:16,921 --> 00:29:19,390
about a haunted doll
if it was scary enough,
447
00:29:19,891 --> 00:29:22,227
but what they got
was even worse.
448
00:29:22,227 --> 00:29:24,395
Um... And I don't think,
well, I hope,
449
00:29:24,729 --> 00:29:26,564
that a lot of people
didn't see that coming.
450
00:29:26,564 --> 00:29:30,368
So, it is a bit of a double-dip,
because you have a scary story
451
00:29:30,368 --> 00:29:33,104
about a haunted doll,
and then you have, you know,
452
00:29:33,104 --> 00:29:35,540
that you get to enjoy about,
453
00:29:35,540 --> 00:29:36,841
you know,
the first and second act,
454
00:29:36,841 --> 00:29:38,076
and then the third act it's just
455
00:29:38,076 --> 00:29:41,579
a totally different pivot
that is kind of
456
00:29:41,579 --> 00:29:43,848
a different scary feeling
in your stomach.
457
00:29:43,848 --> 00:29:45,416
So, I think that's probably
458
00:29:45,416 --> 00:29:47,452
a lot of what
Betsy the Doll is,
459
00:29:47,452 --> 00:29:50,155
is that it's kind of two things
that are twisted into one.
460
00:29:51,422 --> 00:29:53,725
Well, Rebecca, we thank you
for joining us today.
461
00:29:53,725 --> 00:29:56,094
Thank you for sharing
this great story with us,
462
00:29:56,094 --> 00:29:58,429
and we hope you love
how it turns out,
463
00:29:58,997 --> 00:30:00,999
and continued success
in the future.
464
00:30:01,566 --> 00:30:03,401
Thank you, David.
It was great to talk to you,
465
00:30:03,401 --> 00:30:06,738
great to be here, and to discuss
my favorite thing in the world,
466
00:30:06,738 --> 00:30:08,206
which is horror and twists.
467
00:30:08,807 --> 00:30:11,309
Thanks for joining us
for this exclusive interview
468
00:30:11,309 --> 00:30:12,877
with our NoSleep writers.
469
00:30:13,178 --> 00:30:15,580
We look forward to you
joining us next time.
470
00:30:16,514 --> 00:30:18,416
[closing theme music]
471
00:30:19,050 --> 00:30:23,221
♪
472
00:31:43,101 --> 00:31:48,239
♪
473
00:31:52,443 --> 00:31:54,512
[closing theme music concludes]
32881
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