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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:01,597 --> 00:00:03,847 (cheering) 2 00:00:09,981 --> 00:00:12,231 (shouting) 3 00:00:16,898 --> 00:00:20,231 (upbeat pop rock music) 4 00:00:21,939 --> 00:00:25,539 - [Narrator] What does it mean to be gay and be a man? 5 00:00:25,539 --> 00:00:30,190 Given all the different types of gay men out there, 6 00:00:30,190 --> 00:00:32,637 there's no straight answer for sure. 7 00:00:32,637 --> 00:00:34,157 - There was no one to go talk to, 8 00:00:34,157 --> 00:00:37,720 like a gay Buddha or gay Yoda and say, "Mm, tell me please." 9 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:41,370 - I didn't know what a role model meant to me. 10 00:00:41,370 --> 00:00:44,760 - I didn't act the way that the people 11 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:45,917 that were called gay act, 12 00:00:45,917 --> 00:00:48,701 so I would question sometimes if I was. 13 00:00:48,701 --> 00:00:49,880 - I didn't know what gay was. 14 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,757 I just knew it was something that was not looked upon. 15 00:00:53,757 --> 00:00:55,517 - I didn't feel like I fit in the gay world. 16 00:00:55,517 --> 00:00:57,316 I didn't feel like I fit in the straight world. 17 00:00:57,316 --> 00:01:00,280 - When you think of being gay, there's such a stereotype. 18 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:02,957 That's why a lot of people tend to stay in the closet. 19 00:01:02,957 --> 00:01:05,720 - I'm supposed to be this dominant man and 20 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:08,461 I'm still kind of hiding it. 21 00:01:08,461 --> 00:01:10,957 - [Narrator] We'll profile a wide range of gay men 22 00:01:10,957 --> 00:01:13,795 to explore how they define what it means to be a man. 23 00:01:13,795 --> 00:01:16,698 - With a gay man, masculinity is a feature that 24 00:01:16,698 --> 00:01:19,800 they actually think about more often than straight men 25 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,498 because straight men are just basically following a line. 26 00:01:22,498 --> 00:01:24,941 - Homosexul men have a very conflicted 27 00:01:24,941 --> 00:01:27,101 relationship with masculinity. 28 00:01:27,101 --> 00:01:29,619 They put it up on a pedestal and on the other side, 29 00:01:29,619 --> 00:01:31,581 they're afraid that other men are going to make fun of them. 30 00:01:31,581 --> 00:01:32,701 And they will. 31 00:01:32,701 --> 00:01:34,920 - I was physically assaulted many times in school. 32 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:36,899 I just didn't fit in at all to the rigid standards 33 00:01:36,899 --> 00:01:39,821 for what men and women do. 34 00:01:39,821 --> 00:01:41,517 - Being labeled as a faggot before 35 00:01:41,517 --> 00:01:44,578 I even knew that I was gay. 36 00:01:44,578 --> 00:01:47,101 - Learning to look through a magnifying glass at 37 00:01:47,101 --> 00:01:48,973 how we're performing masculinity, 38 00:01:48,973 --> 00:01:52,460 there's a potential feeling that we have of "I've failed." 39 00:01:52,460 --> 00:01:55,619 - There are different ways that people enact 40 00:01:55,619 --> 00:01:57,240 what it means to be masculine. 41 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:59,437 There's no one category called Gay Men. 42 00:01:59,437 --> 00:02:01,325 - There are extremes to both ends of 43 00:02:01,325 --> 00:02:02,996 masculinity and femininity. 44 00:02:02,996 --> 00:02:04,440 It's just where you end up in that spectrum. 45 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:05,517 It's who you are. 46 00:02:05,517 --> 00:02:09,240 - Masculinity has to be a special challenge for gay men 47 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,701 because we are attracted to other men 48 00:02:12,701 --> 00:02:16,360 so the question of what makes a man a man 49 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,499 and how I can be the thing that 50 00:02:18,499 --> 00:02:22,440 I desire is a central question about who we are as a people. 51 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,773 (upbeat pop rock music) 52 00:02:28,739 --> 00:02:32,459 - [Narrator] This is The Butch Factor. 53 00:02:32,459 --> 00:02:35,542 (intense rock music) 54 00:02:44,473 --> 00:02:47,513 - To be a man is to be trustworthy, to be genuine, 55 00:02:47,513 --> 00:02:49,379 to do what you say you're gonna do, 56 00:02:49,379 --> 00:02:50,621 to follow through on your word, 57 00:02:50,621 --> 00:02:52,499 be honorable and treat people well. 58 00:02:52,499 --> 00:02:55,419 To put it in a short version, just do the right thing 59 00:02:55,419 --> 00:02:57,100 and we all know what that means. 60 00:02:57,100 --> 00:02:59,360 - [Narrator] When he's not pursuing his favorite passion, 61 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,220 football, Jason Hefley works for a construction company 62 00:03:02,220 --> 00:03:04,737 in San Diego, California. 63 00:03:04,737 --> 00:03:08,760 - Being gay, or being attracted to men, 64 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:10,758 is a sexual preference and that's just 65 00:03:10,758 --> 00:03:13,778 one part of Jason Hefley, a very small part, quite frankly. 66 00:03:13,778 --> 00:03:15,217 I'm also an athlete. 67 00:03:15,217 --> 00:03:17,937 I'm also an uncle, a great son, 68 00:03:17,937 --> 00:03:20,577 and all these different variables. 69 00:03:20,577 --> 00:03:23,353 It doesn't dictate what I am or what I do 70 00:03:23,353 --> 00:03:25,158 or anything like that. 71 00:03:25,158 --> 00:03:27,179 - [Narrator] Jason plays in a gay flag football 72 00:03:27,179 --> 00:03:28,897 league in San Diego. 73 00:03:28,897 --> 00:03:30,817 The city hosts 10 gay teams and is one of 74 00:03:30,817 --> 00:03:34,495 17 gay football leagues around the country. 75 00:03:34,495 --> 00:03:37,761 - There's a lot of former college athletes. 76 00:03:37,761 --> 00:03:40,170 There are some straight guys in the league that 77 00:03:40,170 --> 00:03:41,296 have good athletic background. 78 00:03:41,296 --> 00:03:42,939 Just some great athletes out there in general. 79 00:03:42,939 --> 00:03:45,340 The dynamics are very competitive. 80 00:03:45,340 --> 00:03:48,256 It's a very competitive environment. 81 00:03:48,256 --> 00:03:50,839 (men shouting) 82 00:03:56,244 --> 00:03:58,541 Flag football is surprisingly physical. 83 00:03:58,541 --> 00:04:00,931 It's definitely a contact sport. 84 00:04:00,931 --> 00:04:02,206 - You don't have any padding on but people are 85 00:04:02,206 --> 00:04:04,309 still running into each other, so it can be pretty rough. 86 00:04:04,309 --> 00:04:07,278 I've had a couple of injuries from it. 87 00:04:07,278 --> 00:04:09,336 My grandfather was actually an All-American 88 00:04:09,336 --> 00:04:11,666 quarterback for Princeton and so I've got the lineage 89 00:04:11,666 --> 00:04:12,968 and I really like the game. 90 00:04:12,968 --> 00:04:14,737 Love football, going to University of Florida, 91 00:04:14,737 --> 00:04:16,170 football is the main thing there. 92 00:04:16,170 --> 00:04:17,439 I won a bronze medal at the Gay Games, played football. 93 00:04:17,439 --> 00:04:19,867 It's become a big part of my life. 94 00:04:19,867 --> 00:04:23,700 - I've always played sports since I was a kid, 95 00:04:24,751 --> 00:04:27,356 so coming out here I was trying to find just a good 96 00:04:27,356 --> 00:04:30,115 community of gay people to play ball with. 97 00:04:30,115 --> 00:04:32,700 I think you have more of a sense of togetherness because 98 00:04:32,700 --> 00:04:33,314 we're just a small gay community, 99 00:04:33,314 --> 00:04:34,418 and for the straight people, 100 00:04:34,418 --> 00:04:35,575 and so on and we play here and 101 00:04:35,575 --> 00:04:36,812 we're off the field, we all hang out. 102 00:04:36,812 --> 00:04:37,982 When I play in the straight leagues, 103 00:04:37,982 --> 00:04:39,202 we don't hang out afterwards. 104 00:04:39,202 --> 00:04:40,490 We don't go grab a burger afterwards 105 00:04:40,490 --> 00:04:42,470 or hang out at somebody's house because, 106 00:04:42,470 --> 00:04:44,815 I mean, I'm gonna guess that would be kind of gay. 107 00:04:44,815 --> 00:04:49,880 (men shouting and cheering) 108 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,450 - Like most team sports, it feels like we're part of a team. 109 00:04:52,450 --> 00:04:55,901 (men shouting and cheering) 110 00:04:55,901 --> 00:04:57,716 But, I also think it's great for the new guys, 111 00:04:57,716 --> 00:04:59,383 especially the guys who've never played, 112 00:04:59,383 --> 00:05:00,256 who come out here and say, 113 00:05:00,256 --> 00:05:01,249 "You know what? 114 00:05:01,249 --> 00:05:02,369 "I can play football." 115 00:05:02,369 --> 00:05:03,803 That just gives me joy because I've been playing all my life 116 00:05:03,803 --> 00:05:05,290 I love football! 117 00:05:05,290 --> 00:05:08,446 (upbeat energetic music) 118 00:05:09,385 --> 00:05:11,413 - It seems to be such a stereotype of 119 00:05:11,413 --> 00:05:14,500 a manly, straight thing. 120 00:05:14,500 --> 00:05:15,985 We need to break those barriers. 121 00:05:15,985 --> 00:05:18,458 We have this league going and it's growing and 122 00:05:18,458 --> 00:05:19,927 we have a lot of people out there who just 123 00:05:19,927 --> 00:05:22,321 want to play the sport and have a good time. 124 00:05:22,321 --> 00:05:23,738 - Team athletics has always been a part of 125 00:05:23,738 --> 00:05:26,460 my upbringing and I think it has a lot to do with 126 00:05:26,460 --> 00:05:28,802 who I am today and my character. 127 00:05:28,802 --> 00:05:30,684 - [Narrator] Growing up in Arkansas and Oregon, 128 00:05:30,684 --> 00:05:32,579 Jason was an all-star football player 129 00:05:32,579 --> 00:05:34,344 in high school and college. 130 00:05:34,344 --> 00:05:35,561 He even played a while for 131 00:05:35,561 --> 00:05:37,250 Canada's professional football league. 132 00:05:37,250 --> 00:05:39,745 - [Announcer] Then he just follows right off the tushy 133 00:05:39,745 --> 00:05:43,912 of the pulling tackle there, plays right off his butt. 134 00:05:48,231 --> 00:05:49,417 - Football teams became my families and 135 00:05:49,417 --> 00:05:52,405 coaches became my ad hoc fathers and that was 136 00:05:52,405 --> 00:05:56,830 a real important part of my growth and development. 137 00:05:56,830 --> 00:05:59,350 I was really shocked to find out that there didn't seem to 138 00:05:59,350 --> 00:06:02,500 be a lot of people like me in the gay community, initially. 139 00:06:02,500 --> 00:06:03,919 Maybe a little rough and tumble, 140 00:06:03,919 --> 00:06:07,153 a construction or blue-collar background. 141 00:06:07,153 --> 00:06:10,440 I've got a two-man auger out here, which is post-hold digger 142 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:11,971 I have my boyfriend on the other side, 143 00:06:11,971 --> 00:06:13,507 which is kind of funny because he only weighs 144 00:06:13,507 --> 00:06:16,757 about 150 pounds and it was throwing him all over the place. 145 00:06:16,757 --> 00:06:18,294 This is pretty hard soil. 146 00:06:18,294 --> 00:06:20,965 I was finding in the gay community girl talk, 147 00:06:20,965 --> 00:06:23,465 pop culture, Madonna, fashion. 148 00:06:24,551 --> 00:06:26,685 I found myself, oftentimes, 149 00:06:26,685 --> 00:06:30,751 just being a sedentary participant in the community. 150 00:06:30,751 --> 00:06:34,727 Being involved in the flag football league has helped me 151 00:06:34,727 --> 00:06:38,560 come to terms with my identity because before, 152 00:06:39,445 --> 00:06:42,481 I didn't have any outlets and camaraderie 153 00:06:42,481 --> 00:06:46,800 experiences within the gay community. 154 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:47,825 I've always viewed myself to be 155 00:06:47,825 --> 00:06:50,382 a very strong man, very confident. 156 00:06:50,382 --> 00:06:54,215 I didn't care what other people thought of me. 157 00:06:55,185 --> 00:06:57,379 That probably wasn't as true as much as 158 00:06:57,379 --> 00:06:58,999 I like to believe myself, 159 00:06:58,999 --> 00:07:01,819 so I found a lot of people who still, typically, 160 00:07:01,819 --> 00:07:05,101 wouldn't be perceived as strong as me. 161 00:07:05,101 --> 00:07:08,137 They were more confident in themselves and 162 00:07:08,137 --> 00:07:11,160 they were being themselves through sexuality and 163 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,640 comfortable with their sexuality. 164 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,430 So, it ws kind of a wake-up call. 165 00:07:17,430 --> 00:07:20,713 I'm supposed to be this dominant man and 166 00:07:20,713 --> 00:07:23,832 I'm still kind of hiding it. 167 00:07:23,832 --> 00:07:26,434 What does that really say about me. 168 00:07:26,434 --> 00:07:29,407 So, I think being around those guys over and over 169 00:07:29,407 --> 00:07:32,277 and over again and seeing their comfort level 170 00:07:32,277 --> 00:07:33,829 had a large part of me saying hey, 171 00:07:33,829 --> 00:07:36,766 you'd better take a look at yourself in the mirror. 172 00:07:36,766 --> 00:07:40,160 (upbeat intense music) 173 00:07:50,580 --> 00:07:52,773 - I have been in this department for almost 14 years. 174 00:07:52,773 --> 00:07:54,554 These are my original cuffs. 175 00:07:54,554 --> 00:07:56,894 The interesting thing about these handcuff is they have 176 00:07:56,894 --> 00:07:59,472 been on Richard Ramirez, The Night Stalker. 177 00:07:59,472 --> 00:08:01,545 I hold them on as friendly reminder of what 178 00:08:01,545 --> 00:08:04,128 everyone in life is capable of. 179 00:08:07,344 --> 00:08:09,425 One of the greatest things about being a deputy sheriff 180 00:08:09,425 --> 00:08:11,616 and working for the Sheriff's Department are 181 00:08:11,616 --> 00:08:13,367 the challenges that you face every day. 182 00:08:13,367 --> 00:08:16,698 The leadership skills that you possess, you bring with you. 183 00:08:16,698 --> 00:08:19,325 The inherent qualities that you have, you bring with you. 184 00:08:19,325 --> 00:08:21,992 They are utilized at any given moment. 185 00:08:21,992 --> 00:08:23,956 It's very difficult when you walk down a tier and 186 00:08:23,956 --> 00:08:25,643 you're called faggot-ass bitch, 187 00:08:25,643 --> 00:08:27,257 you try not to take it personal, 188 00:08:27,257 --> 00:08:29,848 that it doesn't really matter what people think, 189 00:08:29,848 --> 00:08:31,550 whether you're gay or not. 190 00:08:31,550 --> 00:08:33,893 The inmate population, the criminals as a whole 191 00:08:33,893 --> 00:08:37,242 begin to respect you, it's on the fact that you're honest, 192 00:08:37,242 --> 00:08:39,816 you have integrity, you say what you mean, 193 00:08:39,816 --> 00:08:43,399 you're fair and impartial across the board. 194 00:08:45,450 --> 00:08:47,753 I think, sometimes, there's this underlying feeling 195 00:08:47,753 --> 00:08:52,920 that because you are gay, that somehow you're less than 196 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,930 and that could just be preconceived, 197 00:08:55,930 --> 00:08:57,770 something that I carry with myself, 198 00:08:57,770 --> 00:08:59,596 but at the same time, I do work with individuals that 199 00:08:59,596 --> 00:09:03,675 at times, feel that because they're heterosexual and 200 00:09:03,675 --> 00:09:07,703 I'm homosexual, somehow they're better than I am. 201 00:09:07,703 --> 00:09:09,683 It's gotten a lot better because, time and time again, 202 00:09:09,683 --> 00:09:11,663 especially in the San Francisco Sheriff's Department, 203 00:09:11,663 --> 00:09:15,275 you have leaders that are lesbian and gay and 204 00:09:15,275 --> 00:09:18,408 bisexual and questioning who have continued 205 00:09:18,408 --> 00:09:20,158 to make a difference. 206 00:09:22,695 --> 00:09:26,289 - I think there were many gays and lesbians who 207 00:09:26,289 --> 00:09:29,274 paved the road for myself and including Vince. 208 00:09:29,274 --> 00:09:32,743 I was hired through a gay recruitment 22 years ago. 209 00:09:32,743 --> 00:09:34,576 I have 178 sworn here. 210 00:09:35,742 --> 00:09:36,949 Most of them are men. 211 00:09:36,949 --> 00:09:38,749 I'm pretty well respected in the department 212 00:09:38,749 --> 00:09:41,719 as well as Vince is and he's great with taking 213 00:09:41,719 --> 00:09:43,862 command of situations and the people respect him, 214 00:09:43,862 --> 00:09:45,480 gay, straight or whatever. 215 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,812 - He's very open with his lifestyle but he's not 216 00:09:48,812 --> 00:09:52,223 forcing it down anyone's throat. 217 00:09:52,223 --> 00:09:53,957 It's just who he is. 218 00:09:53,957 --> 00:09:56,582 There is the stigma of being gay. 219 00:09:56,582 --> 00:09:59,156 Law enforcement can be a very macho kind of thing and 220 00:09:59,156 --> 00:10:03,850 a lot of times the gays may not be seen as being macho. 221 00:10:03,850 --> 00:10:04,501 Although, look at Vince. 222 00:10:04,501 --> 00:10:08,661 I mean, no one's gonna say no to Vince, just from his size. 223 00:10:08,661 --> 00:10:12,607 There are other gay or lesbian employees in this department 224 00:10:12,607 --> 00:10:15,804 that are not as big and forceful. 225 00:10:15,804 --> 00:10:19,270 They're seen as weak, sometimes, by the staff, 226 00:10:19,270 --> 00:10:22,322 because they are not afraid to show their emotions. 227 00:10:22,322 --> 00:10:24,386 There's this facade you're supposed to put up, 228 00:10:24,386 --> 00:10:29,314 the big, tough, or at least the unflappable professional. 229 00:10:29,314 --> 00:10:32,605 You get it done, you know, Joe Friday, just the facts, 230 00:10:32,605 --> 00:10:33,740 et cetera, et cetera. 231 00:10:33,740 --> 00:10:35,112 I think it's slowly changing. 232 00:10:35,112 --> 00:10:36,499 It takes a long time. 233 00:10:36,499 --> 00:10:40,886 - I've had grown men, both deputy sheriff and convict, 234 00:10:40,886 --> 00:10:44,540 and inmate, collapse in my arms in tears. 235 00:10:44,540 --> 00:10:45,110 Straight. 236 00:10:45,110 --> 00:10:48,326 And they've felt comfortable to do that. 237 00:10:48,326 --> 00:10:52,106 Why that is, is it's not so much about this 238 00:10:52,106 --> 00:10:54,121 as it is about this. 239 00:10:54,121 --> 00:10:55,621 I have a heart. 240 00:10:55,621 --> 00:10:59,432 I like to use it a lot, not just for pumping muscle, 241 00:10:59,432 --> 00:11:01,922 but I think people trust in me and they know 242 00:11:01,922 --> 00:11:03,750 that I'm gonna do the right thing. 243 00:11:03,750 --> 00:11:04,531 I'm a very fair person. 244 00:11:04,531 --> 00:11:07,570 I can walk around, I can bust heads all day long. 245 00:11:07,570 --> 00:11:10,357 I could just bust through walls, metaphorically speaking, 246 00:11:10,357 --> 00:11:13,358 but I'm not gonna get any respect. 247 00:11:13,358 --> 00:11:15,452 I always wanted to be in law enforcement. 248 00:11:15,452 --> 00:11:16,825 I always wanted to be a firefighter. 249 00:11:16,825 --> 00:11:18,471 "But, you? 250 00:11:18,471 --> 00:11:20,600 "You can't be a firefighter. 251 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,712 "You can't be in law enforcement." 252 00:11:22,712 --> 00:11:24,164 There were no gay role models. 253 00:11:24,164 --> 00:11:26,593 There was no one to go talk to, 254 00:11:26,593 --> 00:11:30,380 like a gay Buddha or gay Yoda, and say, you know, 255 00:11:30,380 --> 00:11:31,244 "Hmm, tell me please!" 256 00:11:31,244 --> 00:11:33,589 You know, there was none of that. 257 00:11:33,589 --> 00:11:36,143 I applied with the San Francisco Sheriff's Department 258 00:11:36,143 --> 00:11:39,508 and they hired me and then I didn't think I could make it. 259 00:11:39,508 --> 00:11:41,953 Because I was gay, I didn't think I would be accepted 260 00:11:41,953 --> 00:11:44,938 and that it would be a horrible experience and that 261 00:11:44,938 --> 00:11:48,220 eventually I would have to leave or I would be ousted 262 00:11:48,220 --> 00:11:52,690 or I would be made fun of or I would be ridiculed. 263 00:11:52,690 --> 00:11:54,788 So, here I walk onto a tier, a housing unit, 264 00:11:54,788 --> 00:11:59,615 with these convicts, people who had murdered and raped 265 00:11:59,615 --> 00:12:03,618 and stoled and it frightened me to death every day. 266 00:12:03,618 --> 00:12:04,969 They all knew I was gay. 267 00:12:04,969 --> 00:12:06,224 I was totally open about it. 268 00:12:06,224 --> 00:12:08,634 They nicknamed me The Savage because I wouldn't give up. 269 00:12:08,634 --> 00:12:12,597 I mean, I was getting guys turning on me with their fists up 270 00:12:12,597 --> 00:12:14,720 like these convicts ready to fight me. 271 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:15,944 Not my experience. 272 00:12:15,944 --> 00:12:17,927 Thank God, I have the support of all my deputies 273 00:12:17,927 --> 00:12:21,937 and after about nine months, I just wasn't afraid any more. 274 00:12:21,937 --> 00:12:24,274 There's not too much today that I'm afraid of. 275 00:12:24,274 --> 00:12:29,173 A man is someone who looks adversity straight in the face 276 00:12:29,173 --> 00:12:33,800 and faces it head-on with courage and fortitude. 277 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:34,899 Masculinity resides in here. 278 00:12:34,899 --> 00:12:36,863 You could look at me and people say, 279 00:12:36,863 --> 00:12:38,519 "Oh, my God, he's the epitome of masculinity," 280 00:12:38,519 --> 00:12:40,830 and the next moment you could see me and I'm just 281 00:12:40,830 --> 00:12:42,531 chatting it up like the little Chatty Cathy with people 282 00:12:42,531 --> 00:12:44,653 but I'm comfortable with that. 283 00:12:44,653 --> 00:12:47,317 I don't think that qualifies like, 284 00:12:47,317 --> 00:12:48,671 "Oh, he's so feminine." 285 00:12:48,671 --> 00:12:50,254 No, I'm everything. 286 00:12:56,494 --> 00:12:59,760 (upbeat energetic music) 287 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,842 (crowds cheering) 288 00:13:02,842 --> 00:13:04,428 - The people that were called gay, I didn't act that way. 289 00:13:04,428 --> 00:13:07,261 (crowds cheering) 290 00:13:08,532 --> 00:13:10,907 So, I would question sometimes if I was, 291 00:13:10,907 --> 00:13:14,183 (upbeat energetic music) 292 00:13:14,183 --> 00:13:16,814 even though I had that attraction. 293 00:13:16,814 --> 00:13:18,954 - [Narrator] Kevin Reed plays for both gay and straight 294 00:13:18,954 --> 00:13:21,671 softball teams in Dallas, Texas. 295 00:13:21,671 --> 00:13:24,767 - I would look at guys longer than I would look at girls, 296 00:13:24,767 --> 00:13:25,756 you know, in a certain way. 297 00:13:25,756 --> 00:13:27,881 I tried to suppress it, I tried not to be that way 298 00:13:27,881 --> 00:13:30,167 because I have a very religious background. 299 00:13:30,167 --> 00:13:33,714 I just felt out of place on both sides of it. 300 00:13:33,714 --> 00:13:35,514 Growing up, being African-American, people stereotype 301 00:13:35,514 --> 00:13:39,311 and judge me just from the color of my skin. 302 00:13:39,311 --> 00:13:40,914 It's just like being gay. 303 00:13:40,914 --> 00:13:42,714 They judge you without even knowing you. 304 00:13:42,714 --> 00:13:44,678 A lot of my peers, a lot of my friends, 305 00:13:44,678 --> 00:13:46,348 guys that I play ball with, 306 00:13:46,348 --> 00:13:49,463 I wouldn't want them to know just because they automatically 307 00:13:49,463 --> 00:13:52,234 think that you like them or that you're after them. 308 00:13:52,234 --> 00:13:54,143 They forget about the guy that they know and 309 00:13:54,143 --> 00:13:56,878 that they grew up with and automatically think, you're gay, 310 00:13:56,878 --> 00:14:01,450 so that's what's in front of me the person is me being gay. 311 00:14:05,466 --> 00:14:06,998 It's still kind of rough for me right now. 312 00:14:06,998 --> 00:14:09,983 I'm still dealing with it but this kind of stuff helps a lot 313 00:14:09,983 --> 00:14:11,476 Being able to play something I like and still be 314 00:14:11,476 --> 00:14:14,860 competitive with gay guys because I always felt that 315 00:14:14,860 --> 00:14:16,574 they probably wouldn't be as good. 316 00:14:16,574 --> 00:14:18,695 I don't know why I thought that because of myself. 317 00:14:18,695 --> 00:14:21,624 I don't care for attention to show and 318 00:14:21,624 --> 00:14:24,792 prove to everybody that I'm gay. 319 00:14:24,792 --> 00:14:25,876 I'm just a regular guy. 320 00:14:25,876 --> 00:14:29,100 They had other guys out there that were the same as I am. 321 00:14:29,100 --> 00:14:32,126 It just kind of helps me accept it a little bit more, 322 00:14:32,126 --> 00:14:33,938 be able to deal with it a little bit more. 323 00:14:33,938 --> 00:14:37,355 But, I still keep it away from my family. 324 00:14:38,894 --> 00:14:41,302 (melancholy piano music) 325 00:14:41,302 --> 00:14:42,762 I have some good friends that are straight but 326 00:14:42,762 --> 00:14:45,280 just from having conversations with them, 327 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,402 they just can't, seems like they can't handle it. 328 00:14:47,402 --> 00:14:50,281 They can't see a masculine guy being gay without 329 00:14:50,281 --> 00:14:53,418 putting the DL tag on him as well. 330 00:14:53,418 --> 00:14:56,351 I've never been on the down-low where 331 00:14:56,351 --> 00:15:00,518 I was with guys and girls and if you're masculine, 332 00:15:02,304 --> 00:15:05,174 lately a lot of people have been putting that on guys 333 00:15:05,174 --> 00:15:07,563 that they're on the DL, black guys. 334 00:15:07,563 --> 00:15:10,842 (crowd shouting) 335 00:15:10,842 --> 00:15:14,246 The reason I didn't date women and pursue that is 336 00:15:14,246 --> 00:15:16,996 because I knew that's not what I really wanted and 337 00:15:16,996 --> 00:15:18,724 I have a sister and I have a mother and I wouldn't want 338 00:15:18,724 --> 00:15:22,891 anybody to do that to them just to cover up whoever they are 339 00:15:26,584 --> 00:15:28,516 - [Narrator] Marcus Nunn and Dalph Johnson 340 00:15:28,516 --> 00:15:29,716 are Kevin's teammates. 341 00:15:29,716 --> 00:15:33,124 They faced similar challenges growing up as gay men. 342 00:15:33,124 --> 00:15:35,159 - It's not well-accepted in a black household, 343 00:15:35,159 --> 00:15:38,558 because African-American men are raised to be very macho. 344 00:15:38,558 --> 00:15:42,791 - I think in the time when I was actually trying to come out 345 00:15:42,791 --> 00:15:46,190 it was a little bit more harder and more tougher 346 00:15:46,190 --> 00:15:48,440 to be gay and be masculine. 347 00:15:50,116 --> 00:15:52,958 - When you think of being gay, there's such a stereotype. 348 00:15:52,958 --> 00:15:56,399 A lot of people don't look at the big picture. 349 00:15:56,399 --> 00:15:58,786 We are just like everybody else. 350 00:15:58,786 --> 00:15:59,999 Society is so judgemental. 351 00:15:59,999 --> 00:16:03,470 That's why a lot of people tend to stay in the closet. 352 00:16:03,470 --> 00:16:07,439 - I got married and tried to cover the thing up and 353 00:16:07,439 --> 00:16:09,863 forget about who I really was. 354 00:16:09,863 --> 00:16:11,735 I don't regret the marriage. 355 00:16:11,735 --> 00:16:15,172 It was a learning process and the learning process I learned 356 00:16:15,172 --> 00:16:16,665 to be true to who I am. 357 00:16:16,665 --> 00:16:18,916 Being who I am is just being Dalph. 358 00:16:18,916 --> 00:16:20,212 It's not about me being gay. 359 00:16:20,212 --> 00:16:21,470 It's about me just being Dalph. 360 00:16:21,470 --> 00:16:25,415 - I was so afraid to tell certain people, even this year. 361 00:16:25,415 --> 00:16:26,854 My job? 362 00:16:26,854 --> 00:16:28,903 I would never tell anybody at my job. 363 00:16:28,903 --> 00:16:30,633 But, I've gotten to the point now, 364 00:16:30,633 --> 00:16:34,161 my grandmother, who raised me, she means a great deal to me. 365 00:16:34,161 --> 00:16:35,548 She knows. 366 00:16:35,548 --> 00:16:36,916 I could care less who knows. 367 00:16:36,916 --> 00:16:39,694 I'm not gonna change my life to appease anybody. 368 00:16:39,694 --> 00:16:42,901 As long as I get the acceptance from my family, 369 00:16:42,901 --> 00:16:44,466 I'm fine. 370 00:16:44,466 --> 00:16:47,600 - Whether you're masculine, whether you're just feminine, 371 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:49,610 you're not free until you're just for yourself. 372 00:16:49,610 --> 00:16:53,270 (upbeat energetic music) 373 00:17:02,843 --> 00:17:07,100 - I always thought that being gay meant you were a pussy. 374 00:17:10,649 --> 00:17:13,687 I didn't want to be a pussy, you know? 375 00:17:13,687 --> 00:17:16,515 - [Narrator] Bil Yoelin plays for the Los Angeles Rebellion, 376 00:17:16,515 --> 00:17:18,275 one of about a dozen gay rugby teams 377 00:17:18,275 --> 00:17:20,358 across the United States. 378 00:17:21,733 --> 00:17:25,157 - It's provided a place for me to be comfortable 379 00:17:25,157 --> 00:17:27,722 but now we're like a brotherhood. 380 00:17:27,722 --> 00:17:28,654 It's great. 381 00:17:28,654 --> 00:17:32,369 I didn't come out until after I left home. 382 00:17:32,369 --> 00:17:35,270 So, I grew up in Des Moines, Iowa and 383 00:17:35,270 --> 00:17:37,531 I left Des Moines on my 19th birthday. 384 00:17:37,531 --> 00:17:39,789 I came to California to come to college and 385 00:17:39,789 --> 00:17:42,749 I didn't consider myself to be gay at all. 386 00:17:42,749 --> 00:17:46,192 For me, there wasn't any identity there of anyone who is gay 387 00:17:46,192 --> 00:17:47,485 It wasn't an option for me. 388 00:17:47,485 --> 00:17:51,372 It wasn't until afterwards in my 20s that I really felt 389 00:17:51,372 --> 00:17:55,975 like I came out and I had other masculine gay men 390 00:17:55,975 --> 00:18:00,850 that I was attracted to and that I had a camaraderie with, 391 00:18:00,850 --> 00:18:03,728 I could hang out with and be friends with. 392 00:18:03,728 --> 00:18:05,319 - We also have a lot of straight guys on our team. 393 00:18:05,319 --> 00:18:08,466 I'd say 40% of our team is straight and one thing that's 394 00:18:08,466 --> 00:18:11,629 been sort of eye-opening for me is I had to sort of 395 00:18:11,629 --> 00:18:13,439 get over some of my heterophobia. 396 00:18:13,439 --> 00:18:16,418 I assumed the worst of a lot of these guys. 397 00:18:16,418 --> 00:18:17,420 I thought, you know what? 398 00:18:17,420 --> 00:18:19,122 As soon as they find out we're a gay team, 399 00:18:19,122 --> 00:18:20,154 they're gonna be out of here and they were like, 400 00:18:20,154 --> 00:18:22,615 "I don't care where you put your dick. 401 00:18:22,615 --> 00:18:24,228 "Let's play, let's go, let's play some rugby." 402 00:18:24,228 --> 00:18:26,236 - A lot of good guys there, you know? 403 00:18:26,236 --> 00:18:28,120 I can bring the girlfriend, you know. 404 00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:30,951 I don't have to worry about all the drunk guys. 405 00:18:30,951 --> 00:18:32,284 A definite plus. 406 00:18:33,543 --> 00:18:35,718 - I'm straight as an arrow. 407 00:18:35,718 --> 00:18:39,349 I always have been but it just, I don't know, 408 00:18:39,349 --> 00:18:41,682 I guess I have an open mind. 409 00:18:42,935 --> 00:18:45,175 In a lot of ways, they're a lot less obnoxious than 410 00:18:45,175 --> 00:18:47,138 hanging out with a bunch of straight guys can be just 411 00:18:47,138 --> 00:18:48,895 crude and rude too, so, I don't know 412 00:18:48,895 --> 00:18:50,764 the difference is all that much. 413 00:18:50,764 --> 00:18:53,647 - I never have like an imaginative thought that 414 00:18:53,647 --> 00:18:55,277 gay guys played rugby. 415 00:18:55,277 --> 00:18:56,847 I had no idea. 416 00:18:56,847 --> 00:19:00,162 I never seen even a gay team in any sport, let alone rugby, 417 00:19:00,162 --> 00:19:04,267 so when I came out here, it was a little different but 418 00:19:04,267 --> 00:19:06,985 it definitely met my expectations. 419 00:19:06,985 --> 00:19:09,225 We play as well as any other team. 420 00:19:09,225 --> 00:19:11,210 - I think I had been conditioned for so long 421 00:19:11,210 --> 00:19:13,981 to think that the straight world is not gonna 422 00:19:13,981 --> 00:19:16,201 like me if I'm honest. 423 00:19:16,201 --> 00:19:18,850 I was taught a lesson. 424 00:19:18,850 --> 00:19:20,157 - [Narrator] Bil grew up in Colorado. 425 00:19:20,157 --> 00:19:23,931 The revelation that he was gay came from a superhero. 426 00:19:23,931 --> 00:19:27,523 - I particularly remember watching the Incredible Hulk on TV 427 00:19:27,523 --> 00:19:30,650 and thinking, yeah, that's what I like. 428 00:19:30,650 --> 00:19:33,349 I think I was probably about six. 429 00:19:33,349 --> 00:19:36,437 The problem was I didn't know if it was really 430 00:19:36,437 --> 00:19:40,433 muscular guys that I liked, or green people. 431 00:19:40,433 --> 00:19:42,416 - [Narrator] But, as a teenager, Bil didn't know 432 00:19:42,416 --> 00:19:45,465 anyone who was gay except for who he saw on television. 433 00:19:45,465 --> 00:19:48,794 - I guess then it was Boy George or it was, you know, 434 00:19:48,794 --> 00:19:50,556 you see drag queens. 435 00:19:50,556 --> 00:19:54,690 - [Narrator] Bil stayed in the closet until his early 20s. 436 00:19:54,690 --> 00:19:55,347 - I had some girlfriends. 437 00:19:55,347 --> 00:19:59,397 Didn't really, you know, it didn't work out, obviously. 438 00:19:59,397 --> 00:20:03,595 All my friends were straight from high school and college 439 00:20:03,595 --> 00:20:08,100 but then, on the side, there was a club in my neighborhood. 440 00:20:08,100 --> 00:20:11,424 It was called The Metro and it was you know 441 00:20:11,424 --> 00:20:13,870 (imitating club music) 442 00:20:13,870 --> 00:20:16,839 It was sort of like, okay, this what I kind of expected. 443 00:20:16,839 --> 00:20:20,729 I kind of just didn't really feel like it was for me, 444 00:20:20,729 --> 00:20:22,243 but it was like, it's a hard pill. 445 00:20:22,243 --> 00:20:23,299 You gotta swallow it because this is you. 446 00:20:23,299 --> 00:20:25,940 So, I didn't feel like I fit in the gay world, 447 00:20:25,940 --> 00:20:26,816 I didn't feel like fit in the straight world. 448 00:20:26,816 --> 00:20:28,666 I think it's important for young gay guys to have 449 00:20:28,666 --> 00:20:31,182 that place where there's camaraderie without it being 450 00:20:31,182 --> 00:20:33,807 about body image or dancing. 451 00:20:33,807 --> 00:20:35,991 There's something really masculine about 452 00:20:35,991 --> 00:20:38,241 hanging out, being raucous. 453 00:20:40,334 --> 00:20:42,280 I relate to men better. 454 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:46,734 I find them easier to joke around with and laugh. 455 00:20:46,734 --> 00:20:50,844 I have sort of a raunchy sense of humor. 456 00:20:50,844 --> 00:20:53,320 It doesn't always go so well with women. 457 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:55,674 (chuckling) 458 00:20:55,674 --> 00:20:59,872 Sometimes, I will get people asking me if I'm straight, 459 00:20:59,872 --> 00:21:02,458 not believing that I'm gay. 460 00:21:02,458 --> 00:21:05,452 Women, sometimes, will hit on me. 461 00:21:05,452 --> 00:21:07,898 I'll be at a gay bar and someone will say, 462 00:21:07,898 --> 00:21:09,270 "You know, this is a gay bar," 463 00:21:09,270 --> 00:21:10,878 and I'm like, "Yeah, I know." 464 00:21:10,878 --> 00:21:14,281 I'm enjoying the porn, you know? 465 00:21:14,281 --> 00:21:16,818 Even within the gay world, 466 00:21:16,818 --> 00:21:20,985 guys don't always realize there's a real variety of gay men. 467 00:21:24,124 --> 00:21:26,249 Being gay has made me more of a man. 468 00:21:26,249 --> 00:21:28,382 Certainly being honest with being gay 469 00:21:28,382 --> 00:21:29,935 has made me more of a man. 470 00:21:29,935 --> 00:21:32,432 Had I not been honest with myself, 471 00:21:32,432 --> 00:21:34,776 I think that I would have been what 472 00:21:34,776 --> 00:21:37,740 I would describe as a pussy. 473 00:21:37,740 --> 00:21:40,290 I decided not to do that, not to live in the closet 474 00:21:40,290 --> 00:21:41,818 til I'm 60 years old. 475 00:21:41,818 --> 00:21:44,798 So, yeah, definitely it's made me more of a man. 476 00:21:44,798 --> 00:21:48,215 (upbeat energetic music) 477 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:54,850 - [Narrator] Gay men face the challenge of defining 478 00:21:54,850 --> 00:21:57,302 masculinity on their own terms. 479 00:21:57,302 --> 00:21:59,623 However, the issue of what it means to be a man 480 00:21:59,623 --> 00:22:01,873 can be a very divisive one. 481 00:22:04,122 --> 00:22:06,756 Dan Cullinane writes for a number of gay publications 482 00:22:06,756 --> 00:22:11,374 and recently completely a special report on gay masculinity. 483 00:22:11,374 --> 00:22:13,636 - When you say that someone is not masculine, 484 00:22:13,636 --> 00:22:15,898 you are essentially saying they are not a man, 485 00:22:15,898 --> 00:22:18,727 so I think that is why it is controversial. 486 00:22:18,727 --> 00:22:20,854 - [Narrator] Dan found a lot of recurring references 487 00:22:20,854 --> 00:22:22,804 on social sites catering to gay men. 488 00:22:22,804 --> 00:22:25,545 - You are seeing an increase in 489 00:22:25,545 --> 00:22:28,789 "I am a masculine, straight-acting man 490 00:22:28,789 --> 00:22:31,945 "and that is what I am interested in." 491 00:22:31,945 --> 00:22:35,143 There is also no femmes, no nellys, no queens. 492 00:22:35,143 --> 00:22:37,796 There did seem to be this sort of schism opening 493 00:22:37,796 --> 00:22:39,705 within the community. 494 00:22:39,705 --> 00:22:42,631 - [Narrator] Keith Harris is a professor of cultural studies 495 00:22:42,631 --> 00:22:45,616 at the University of California Riverside. 496 00:22:45,616 --> 00:22:47,628 - Even though you have these guys 497 00:22:47,628 --> 00:22:49,813 who are gay involved with men, 498 00:22:49,813 --> 00:22:53,169 one way of maintaining a certain kind of 499 00:22:53,169 --> 00:22:56,133 idealized masculinity is, indeed, 500 00:22:56,133 --> 00:22:59,966 distancing yourself from this effeminate male. 501 00:23:02,610 --> 00:23:04,850 - [Narrator] John Campbell teaches communication 502 00:23:04,850 --> 00:23:05,706 at the University of Minnesota. 503 00:23:05,706 --> 00:23:08,261 He's also written a book about gay sexuality online. 504 00:23:08,261 --> 00:23:11,967 - If you identify as masculine, you understand yourself 505 00:23:11,967 --> 00:23:15,633 as sort of fulfilling these traditional gender roles 506 00:23:15,633 --> 00:23:18,205 but that doesn't fit with your sexuality, 507 00:23:18,205 --> 00:23:21,166 you have a tough time reconciling the two 508 00:23:21,166 --> 00:23:23,220 and negotiating the two. 509 00:23:23,220 --> 00:23:26,627 - [Narrator] Don Romesburg is an archivist with 510 00:23:26,627 --> 00:23:30,531 the GLBT Historical Society in San Francisco. 511 00:23:30,531 --> 00:23:32,616 - Many people expect to come out into the gay community 512 00:23:32,616 --> 00:23:37,218 and find their gender expression, whatever it is, 513 00:23:37,218 --> 00:23:40,474 embraced and accepted and often you find just the contrary, 514 00:23:40,474 --> 00:23:43,146 that there's this mandate to be more masculine. 515 00:23:43,146 --> 00:23:44,783 - What does masculine mean? 516 00:23:44,783 --> 00:23:46,718 Who is masculine and who gets to determine 517 00:23:46,718 --> 00:23:48,414 what those traits are? 518 00:23:48,414 --> 00:23:50,790 Are they real or are they fetish or are they fashion? 519 00:23:50,790 --> 00:23:51,957 What are they? 520 00:23:55,122 --> 00:23:57,482 - [Narrator] Peter Nardi, a professor of sociology 521 00:23:57,482 --> 00:23:59,958 at Pitzer College has written books 522 00:23:59,958 --> 00:24:02,640 on masculine relationships. 523 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,670 - Some people say masculinity is that what which men do 524 00:24:05,670 --> 00:24:08,694 and whatever men do is considered masculine and so 525 00:24:08,694 --> 00:24:10,820 that can have a wider range. 526 00:24:10,820 --> 00:24:12,770 - [Narrator] However, there are some very traditional 527 00:24:12,770 --> 00:24:15,360 ideals of what it means to be a man. 528 00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:17,450 Gregory Cason is a psychologist in Los Angeles. 529 00:24:17,450 --> 00:24:20,862 - Masculinity is often only identified with strength 530 00:24:20,862 --> 00:24:23,654 and fortitude and conquest. 531 00:24:23,654 --> 00:24:26,634 For some people, it could be a hypersexuality and 532 00:24:26,634 --> 00:24:29,593 for some people it could be a very macho appearance 533 00:24:29,593 --> 00:24:32,172 or, for some people, being the head of the boardroom 534 00:24:32,172 --> 00:24:33,773 or being a leader in some way. 535 00:24:33,773 --> 00:24:35,567 - Media seems to reinforce this notion that to be 536 00:24:35,567 --> 00:24:38,802 masculine is to be heterosexual. 537 00:24:38,802 --> 00:24:41,646 The crisis of identity many gay men have is they may have 538 00:24:41,646 --> 00:24:45,276 attraction to other men and therefore, 539 00:24:45,276 --> 00:24:47,616 they think they can't be masculine 540 00:24:47,616 --> 00:24:48,962 and they wrestle with this. 541 00:24:48,962 --> 00:24:51,848 - I often look at the people who are more feminine 542 00:24:51,848 --> 00:24:54,755 and can not hide it as the ones who really learn early 543 00:24:54,755 --> 00:24:57,464 what it is to be a man. 544 00:24:57,464 --> 00:25:00,272 If they don't have sports ability, they can't pass. 545 00:25:00,272 --> 00:25:03,800 If they don't have the masculine voice, they can't pass. 546 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:05,831 So, they're gonna be the ones who are subject to bullying. 547 00:25:05,831 --> 00:25:08,462 They are gonna be the ones who are marginalized 548 00:25:08,462 --> 00:25:11,525 and they learn what it is to stand alone and be strong. 549 00:25:11,525 --> 00:25:13,298 - My tattoo is sissy. 550 00:25:13,298 --> 00:25:16,127 It's my first and only tattoo. 551 00:25:16,127 --> 00:25:19,538 I wanted to make it something that made people think 552 00:25:19,538 --> 00:25:23,102 and show people that I can fight back and 553 00:25:23,102 --> 00:25:26,480 be myself and reclaim some things. 554 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,120 - [Narrator] Mark Snyder has been fighting straight 555 00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:31,665 stereotypes of masculinity his entire life 556 00:25:31,665 --> 00:25:34,104 with sometimes dangerous consequences. 557 00:25:34,104 --> 00:25:37,556 - My femininity, especially when I wear my big sunglasses, 558 00:25:37,556 --> 00:25:39,698 in particular, I don't know why, 559 00:25:39,698 --> 00:25:43,677 it totally sparks a violent reaction in some straight men. 560 00:25:43,677 --> 00:25:46,698 They look at me and immediately they react violently 561 00:25:46,698 --> 00:25:50,208 and they yell and they get really angry at me. 562 00:25:50,208 --> 00:25:52,200 My boyfriend and I had beer bottles thrown at us 563 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:53,423 just a couple weeks ago. 564 00:25:53,423 --> 00:25:55,280 And it's in San Francisco. 565 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,710 - We were waiting for the bus and then, all of a sudden, 566 00:25:58,710 --> 00:25:58,904 this car zooms past us 567 00:25:58,904 --> 00:25:59,737 (glass shattering) 568 00:25:59,737 --> 00:26:01,163 and a beer bottle was thrown at us and 569 00:26:01,163 --> 00:26:04,686 then the guys were laughing, saying "faggots." 570 00:26:04,686 --> 00:26:07,302 - Sometimes, the more masculine, the more straight-acting 571 00:26:07,302 --> 00:26:10,442 gay guys are shocked to hear what we go through. 572 00:26:10,442 --> 00:26:12,507 Every day, I check myself, like am I safe, 573 00:26:12,507 --> 00:26:15,315 every moment that I step out of my house. 574 00:26:15,315 --> 00:26:19,482 I feel a sense of looking around to gauge my safety. 575 00:26:20,832 --> 00:26:22,688 - I feel like I have to watch my back 576 00:26:22,688 --> 00:26:23,973 more when we're together. 577 00:26:23,973 --> 00:26:25,429 We stand out more. 578 00:26:25,429 --> 00:26:27,212 But, we have each other. 579 00:26:27,212 --> 00:26:30,722 We support each other so whatever experience we handle, 580 00:26:30,722 --> 00:26:34,154 we experience it together and that brings us closer. 581 00:26:34,154 --> 00:26:35,751 - [Narrator] Mark works for an advocacy group 582 00:26:35,751 --> 00:26:38,132 in San Francisco helping gay and 583 00:26:38,132 --> 00:26:40,176 lesbian families adopt children. 584 00:26:40,176 --> 00:26:42,690 He grew up in rural Pennsylvania. 585 00:26:42,690 --> 00:26:43,686 - Most of the folks where I am from are farmers 586 00:26:43,686 --> 00:26:46,515 and right-wing Republicans and really into 587 00:26:46,515 --> 00:26:48,972 their fundamentalist right-wing churches. 588 00:26:48,972 --> 00:26:51,916 So, growing up there, I just felt different on 589 00:26:51,916 --> 00:26:54,726 a multitude of levels, not just because of my femininity. 590 00:26:54,726 --> 00:26:57,164 It was very, very challenging. 591 00:26:57,164 --> 00:27:00,397 I knew I was different even before kindergarten. 592 00:27:00,397 --> 00:27:01,902 I just never fit in. 593 00:27:01,902 --> 00:27:04,574 I always wanted to play with the Barbies or the girl toys. 594 00:27:04,574 --> 00:27:07,472 The other little boys were out being rambunctious 595 00:27:07,472 --> 00:27:09,817 or playing sport type things. 596 00:27:09,817 --> 00:27:12,411 Just my appearance was different and the way I talked 597 00:27:12,411 --> 00:27:15,572 was very feminine and expressive with emotion. 598 00:27:15,572 --> 00:27:18,282 I just didn't fit in at all to the rigid standards 599 00:27:18,282 --> 00:27:20,642 for what men and women do. 600 00:27:20,642 --> 00:27:23,196 My uncle always jokes that he knew I was gay 601 00:27:23,196 --> 00:27:25,146 when I was like, four years old, and I wouldn't stop 602 00:27:25,146 --> 00:27:28,167 watching the Bette Midler concert on tape. 603 00:27:28,167 --> 00:27:30,314 I would rewind and watch Bette Midler over and over. 604 00:27:30,314 --> 00:27:32,844 My uncle is gay and that's when he knew, 605 00:27:32,844 --> 00:27:34,854 long before I knew. 606 00:27:34,854 --> 00:27:38,406 By third grade, when I learned the word gay, 607 00:27:38,406 --> 00:27:41,214 I started to try those things to butch up a little bit 608 00:27:41,214 --> 00:27:44,276 because, at that point, the boys are starting to toughen up. 609 00:27:44,276 --> 00:27:46,458 I would play on the swings and play with the girls 610 00:27:46,458 --> 00:27:50,220 but I tried out for basketball and totally failed at that. 611 00:27:50,220 --> 00:27:52,680 Once seventh grade hit, that was high school, 612 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,254 and then I was in building with all the older boys and 613 00:27:55,254 --> 00:27:58,488 they just immediately started harassing me. 614 00:27:58,488 --> 00:28:00,344 The first day of seventh grade, 615 00:28:00,344 --> 00:28:02,136 they started calling me faggot and queer, 616 00:28:02,136 --> 00:28:05,316 pushing me into my locker, kicking the back of my heels, 617 00:28:05,316 --> 00:28:07,520 spitting at me, throwing things. 618 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,931 I feared for my life a lot of times in high school, 619 00:28:10,931 --> 00:28:13,598 not just because I was suicidal, 620 00:28:15,456 --> 00:28:19,860 but people were threatening to kill me all the time. 621 00:28:19,860 --> 00:28:23,448 I would get death threats in my locker, on my locker, 622 00:28:23,448 --> 00:28:27,343 carved in my desk, under the windshield wiper of my car. 623 00:28:27,343 --> 00:28:30,777 People would yell things and just be really violent 624 00:28:30,777 --> 00:28:32,726 and tell me they wanted to rape me and 625 00:28:32,726 --> 00:28:35,304 tell me they wanted to fuck me up. 626 00:28:35,304 --> 00:28:36,786 - [Narrator] Mark said he survived those challenging years 627 00:28:36,786 --> 00:28:39,402 with help from gay support groups on the internet. 628 00:28:39,402 --> 00:28:42,480 Mark went to school at the University of Massachusetts 629 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,584 and started his own website, QueerToday, 630 00:28:45,584 --> 00:28:47,900 to help other kids facing discrimination for being gay. 631 00:28:47,900 --> 00:28:50,436 - I'm really proud of being a sissy now that 632 00:28:50,436 --> 00:28:52,116 I'm not shameful about it. 633 00:28:52,116 --> 00:28:53,676 You're in the area now, right? 634 00:28:53,676 --> 00:28:55,392 I guess I've always felt a little fire burning in me, 635 00:28:55,392 --> 00:28:57,454 keeping me going. 636 00:28:57,454 --> 00:28:59,739 Feeling like I'm making a difference in other people's lives 637 00:28:59,739 --> 00:29:02,313 is the only thing that really kept me going through that 638 00:29:02,313 --> 00:29:04,674 and knowing that once I got out, 639 00:29:04,674 --> 00:29:06,135 I could help other people like me because around me, 640 00:29:06,135 --> 00:29:08,750 I saw people who weren't making it and 641 00:29:08,750 --> 00:29:11,246 the suicide rates will prove that, 642 00:29:11,246 --> 00:29:14,366 even in Massachusetts, which is like, super-liberal, 643 00:29:14,366 --> 00:29:16,686 the gay kids are five times more likely to kill themselves. 644 00:29:16,686 --> 00:29:20,175 I'm lucky to have parents who supported me and 645 00:29:20,175 --> 00:29:22,536 a whole family that loved me and supported me and 646 00:29:22,536 --> 00:29:24,543 without that, I would have definitely killed myself. 647 00:29:24,543 --> 00:29:28,225 (gentle orchestral music) 648 00:29:28,225 --> 00:29:30,570 - [Narrator] Trevor Hoppe also suffered abuse from his 649 00:29:30,570 --> 00:29:32,265 classmates growing up and it lingers with him to this day. 650 00:29:32,265 --> 00:29:35,519 - I still live with, on the one hand, 651 00:29:35,519 --> 00:29:39,808 trying to express my effeminate self and on the other hand, 652 00:29:39,808 --> 00:29:43,398 still feeling this thing in the back of my head that says 653 00:29:43,398 --> 00:29:44,608 "Don't do it. 654 00:29:44,608 --> 00:29:46,695 "You're supposed to act like a man." 655 00:29:46,695 --> 00:29:49,760 - [Narrator] Trevor was raised in North Carolina. 656 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:50,558 He has fond memories of grade school. 657 00:29:50,558 --> 00:29:52,910 - I remember being sort of a happy-go-lucky, 658 00:29:52,910 --> 00:29:56,424 skipping down the hallway, singing kind of boy, 659 00:29:56,424 --> 00:29:58,605 always with a smile on my face. 660 00:29:58,605 --> 00:30:01,100 - [Narrator] But, when he entered middle school, 661 00:30:01,100 --> 00:30:02,648 things changed. 662 00:30:02,648 --> 00:30:04,614 - From, you know, kicking the shit out of me in the hallway 663 00:30:04,614 --> 00:30:08,358 to throwing rocks at my head to being labeled as a faggot 664 00:30:08,358 --> 00:30:11,191 before I even knew that I was gay. 665 00:30:12,300 --> 00:30:15,924 I didn't know that boys were supposed to sort of act tough, 666 00:30:15,924 --> 00:30:19,455 keep a straight face and beat other guys up. 667 00:30:19,455 --> 00:30:22,362 I didn't know how to be a boy, really. 668 00:30:22,362 --> 00:30:24,445 I just knew how to be me. 669 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,737 There was a short amount of time where 670 00:30:28,737 --> 00:30:30,630 I really just, I shut down. 671 00:30:30,630 --> 00:30:31,467 I stopped smiling. 672 00:30:31,467 --> 00:30:33,942 I stopped skipping down the halls. 673 00:30:33,942 --> 00:30:36,500 I just sort of shuffled from class to class. 674 00:30:36,500 --> 00:30:38,175 - [Narrator] Trevor said one day, 675 00:30:38,175 --> 00:30:40,355 he just quit trying to play it straight. 676 00:30:40,355 --> 00:30:43,812 Going from wearing Abercrombie and Fitch to try to fit in 677 00:30:43,812 --> 00:30:48,372 to wearing four-inch platform heels and spiky orange hair. 678 00:30:48,372 --> 00:30:50,806 If I was going to be a faggot no matter what I did, 679 00:30:50,806 --> 00:30:53,931 I might as well be all the faggot that I could be. 680 00:30:53,931 --> 00:30:56,271 I was going to get called a faggot whether I tried to 681 00:30:56,271 --> 00:30:58,106 hide it or whether I slammed it in their face and 682 00:30:58,106 --> 00:30:59,100 it turned out that when I slammed it in their face, 683 00:30:59,100 --> 00:31:03,486 everybody shut the fuck up because they were too scared 684 00:31:03,486 --> 00:31:05,231 to say anything because I looked like I would cut a bitch. 685 00:31:05,231 --> 00:31:06,640 I mean, you know? 686 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:06,897 (chuckling) 687 00:31:06,897 --> 00:31:09,931 - [Narrator] After graduating from Chapel Hill University, 688 00:31:09,931 --> 00:31:12,703 Trevor decided to explore the issues of masculinity 689 00:31:12,703 --> 00:31:15,802 from a self-described queer perspective. 690 00:31:15,802 --> 00:31:17,716 He sought out essays and experiences from 691 00:31:17,716 --> 00:31:20,140 a wide range of gay men who did not 692 00:31:20,140 --> 00:31:23,134 fit into traditional stereotypes of manhood. 693 00:31:23,134 --> 00:31:24,559 He launched a website, 694 00:31:24,559 --> 00:31:25,942 Beyond Masculinity: 695 00:31:25,942 --> 00:31:29,104 Essays by Queer Men on Gender and Politics. 696 00:31:29,104 --> 00:31:31,870 - There was nothing really out there about how to be 697 00:31:31,870 --> 00:31:34,564 a queer man, what that could look like, 698 00:31:34,564 --> 00:31:38,344 how to be a progressive, feminist, thoughtful queer guy. 699 00:31:38,344 --> 00:31:42,676 I wanted to refute a little bit the idea that everybody 700 00:31:42,676 --> 00:31:46,612 who looks like me is sort of dumb, out of it, 701 00:31:46,612 --> 00:31:50,866 and really only into fashion, which is bullshit. 702 00:31:50,866 --> 00:31:54,802 I just wanted to show that there are many different 703 00:31:54,802 --> 00:31:57,766 kinds of us and we all have particular kinds of struggles 704 00:31:57,766 --> 00:32:00,847 and issues but we're all thriving. 705 00:32:00,847 --> 00:32:03,673 - [Narrator] Trevor is working on a PhD at 706 00:32:03,673 --> 00:32:05,870 the University of Michigan in Sociology. 707 00:32:05,870 --> 00:32:08,940 He plans to teach but Trevor has already 708 00:32:08,940 --> 00:32:09,963 learned a lot about himself. 709 00:32:09,963 --> 00:32:13,186 - The latest phase has been really trying to question 710 00:32:13,186 --> 00:32:16,686 the bitch inside me that I learned through 711 00:32:17,565 --> 00:32:19,972 high school as a defense mechanism but 712 00:32:19,972 --> 00:32:22,796 I carried with me into college. 713 00:32:22,796 --> 00:32:26,360 I feel like many gay men don that mask as a way 714 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,360 to prevent themselves from being hurt by others. 715 00:32:31,650 --> 00:32:34,480 I think the unfortunate thing is that we then carry that 716 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,647 into our communities and turn our ammunition on each other. 717 00:32:42,260 --> 00:32:45,927 ♫ I sleep with one eye open 718 00:32:47,251 --> 00:32:52,680 ♫ You make love with one foot out the door 719 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,431 ♫ I must really like getting my heart broken 720 00:32:56,431 --> 00:33:00,348 ♫ I keep jumping back for more 721 00:33:02,300 --> 00:33:04,876 - It's a way to embrace both the sensitive side of myself 722 00:33:04,876 --> 00:33:09,190 and the masculine rock inside of myself in one package. 723 00:33:09,190 --> 00:33:12,326 - [Narrator] It took Brent Calderwood many years to figure 724 00:33:12,326 --> 00:33:15,332 out an expression of himself that was uniquely his. 725 00:33:15,332 --> 00:33:16,950 Just like many other gay boys, 726 00:33:16,950 --> 00:33:20,418 he faced a cruel childhood for not fitting in. 727 00:33:20,418 --> 00:33:21,904 - Well, I was a little sissy-boy. 728 00:33:21,904 --> 00:33:25,648 I had braces and glasses and was overweight. 729 00:33:25,648 --> 00:33:27,869 I think I made an easy target. 730 00:33:27,869 --> 00:33:31,670 - [Narrator] Brent drew strength from his artistic talents. 731 00:33:31,670 --> 00:33:33,324 In addition to his singing and songwriting, 732 00:33:33,324 --> 00:33:36,584 Brent became a prolific writer and graphic artist. 733 00:33:36,584 --> 00:33:40,115 In 1993, at the age of 15, he drew a nationally distributed 734 00:33:40,115 --> 00:33:42,668 comic strip about his coming out. 735 00:33:42,668 --> 00:33:45,965 - I realized that it was a great way to educate kids 736 00:33:45,965 --> 00:33:49,318 because a lot of kids would read the piece and 737 00:33:49,318 --> 00:33:52,418 not even realize that it was about a gay theme and 738 00:33:52,418 --> 00:33:55,637 then suddenly, halfway through, they'd already be hooked. 739 00:33:55,637 --> 00:33:59,120 The media pounced on that because, back in '92, '93, 740 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,538 there weren't a lot of 16 year old who could articulate, 741 00:34:02,538 --> 00:34:04,217 who were out at all, 742 00:34:04,217 --> 00:34:07,144 let alone could articulate what that experience was like. 743 00:34:07,144 --> 00:34:09,500 - [Narrator] Brent's sexuality attracted even more attention 744 00:34:09,500 --> 00:34:11,278 when he shook up one of the most venerable 745 00:34:11,278 --> 00:34:12,932 institutions of high school. 746 00:34:12,932 --> 00:34:14,882 - I woke up and there I was on the front page of 747 00:34:14,882 --> 00:34:17,185 The Oakland Tribune and the first line was 748 00:34:17,185 --> 00:34:19,640 "Brent Calderwood, 17, plans to take 749 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,136 "a male date to his senior prom." 750 00:34:22,136 --> 00:34:25,568 That just really upped the ante in terms of harassment, 751 00:34:25,568 --> 00:34:28,709 getting death threats and people yelling at me, 752 00:34:28,709 --> 00:34:33,287 not only in class and in hallways, but also adults in town. 753 00:34:33,287 --> 00:34:36,316 - [Narrator] Brent is now studying at the University 754 00:34:36,316 --> 00:34:37,564 of California Berkeley. 755 00:34:37,564 --> 00:34:40,642 He plans to become a counselor helping gay youth. 756 00:34:40,642 --> 00:34:44,408 - Whether we're effeminate or masculine by cultural standard 757 00:34:44,408 --> 00:34:47,860 we all grow up as men, and especially as gay men, 758 00:34:47,860 --> 00:34:51,194 learning to look through a magnifying glass at 759 00:34:51,194 --> 00:34:53,141 how we're performing masculinity. 760 00:34:53,141 --> 00:34:56,555 There's a potential feeling that we have of I failed 761 00:34:56,555 --> 00:34:59,674 and then the irony is that once we come out, 762 00:34:59,674 --> 00:35:02,582 rather than create this brave new world or whatever, 763 00:35:02,582 --> 00:35:06,190 we turn to those high school dynamics of trying 764 00:35:06,190 --> 00:35:07,373 to prove our masculinity. 765 00:35:07,373 --> 00:35:10,540 (school bell ringing) 766 00:35:15,633 --> 00:35:18,551 - My masculinity was never a problem for me. 767 00:35:18,551 --> 00:35:21,628 I never thought that I was not masculine. 768 00:35:21,628 --> 00:35:24,376 I always knew I was a pretty masculine guy. 769 00:35:24,376 --> 00:35:28,103 - [Narrator] Wes Adams works as a Teamster truck driver 770 00:35:28,103 --> 00:35:31,125 on film and television sets in Hollywood 771 00:35:31,125 --> 00:35:33,420 and around the country. 772 00:35:34,323 --> 00:35:37,485 Wes met a lot of celebrities over the years. 773 00:35:37,485 --> 00:35:39,531 He also played a part in the Academy Award-winning 774 00:35:39,531 --> 00:35:42,800 Western epic, Dances With Wolves, starring Kevin Costner. 775 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:44,989 In the film, Wes stars as an unlucky settler 776 00:35:44,989 --> 00:35:46,656 attacked by Indians. 777 00:35:48,290 --> 00:35:50,666 - I work with a different crew on just about every 778 00:35:50,666 --> 00:35:51,971 project I work on. 779 00:35:51,971 --> 00:35:53,999 They talk about their families and their wives 780 00:35:53,999 --> 00:35:55,871 and their kids and for example, 781 00:35:55,871 --> 00:35:57,160 this show that I just started. 782 00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:58,584 This guy says, 783 00:35:58,584 --> 00:35:59,556 "Hey, Wes, are you married?" 784 00:35:59,556 --> 00:36:00,535 And I said no, and he goes, 785 00:36:00,535 --> 00:36:01,626 "Do you have kids?" 786 00:36:01,626 --> 00:36:02,657 And I said, no and I said, 787 00:36:02,657 --> 00:36:03,848 "I'm gay and I've been in a relationship with 788 00:36:03,848 --> 00:36:05,876 "my partner for 10 years." 789 00:36:05,876 --> 00:36:09,386 And that usually takes people aback a little bit 790 00:36:09,386 --> 00:36:11,158 and they always say, 791 00:36:11,158 --> 00:36:13,251 "Oh, I never would have known in a million years." 792 00:36:13,251 --> 00:36:14,729 And I'm like, "What is gay to you?" 793 00:36:14,729 --> 00:36:16,190 You know? 794 00:36:16,190 --> 00:36:18,471 - [Narrator] Wes did not come out until his late 20s. 795 00:36:18,471 --> 00:36:20,270 - I thought being gay was a bad thing because 796 00:36:20,270 --> 00:36:23,187 all I'd ever heard was predators, 797 00:36:23,187 --> 00:36:26,700 men lurking around in parks, preying on children. 798 00:36:26,700 --> 00:36:31,211 If someone was homosexual, it was deviant behavior 799 00:36:31,211 --> 00:36:34,306 and that's just the way it was. 800 00:36:34,306 --> 00:36:36,806 - [Announcer] Public restrooms can often be a hangout 801 00:36:36,806 --> 00:36:38,678 for the homosexual. 802 00:36:38,678 --> 00:36:40,664 Bobby and his friends hadn't noticed the man 803 00:36:40,664 --> 00:36:44,250 who had been in the restroom when they changed. 804 00:36:44,250 --> 00:36:45,776 (suspenseful music) 805 00:36:45,776 --> 00:36:48,518 One never knows when the homosexual is about. 806 00:36:48,518 --> 00:36:50,861 He may appear normal and it may be too late when 807 00:36:50,861 --> 00:36:53,378 you discover he is mentally ill. 808 00:36:53,378 --> 00:36:57,320 - As a kid, we go through so much mental agony. 809 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:01,454 We start having these feelings that we're told are wrong 810 00:37:01,454 --> 00:37:05,135 and we don't know how to deal with them and 811 00:37:05,135 --> 00:37:07,705 we fight it with every fiber that we have and 812 00:37:07,705 --> 00:37:11,547 try to do whatever we can to be straight and 813 00:37:11,547 --> 00:37:14,283 pray to God to make us straight. 814 00:37:14,283 --> 00:37:15,665 We go through it alone. 815 00:37:15,665 --> 00:37:18,490 There's nobody to talk to and as a child, that's horrible. 816 00:37:18,490 --> 00:37:22,412 The reason I didn't come out was because I was worried 817 00:37:22,412 --> 00:37:25,748 about how I'd be perceived by my co-workers, 818 00:37:25,748 --> 00:37:28,109 my family, my friends, so I just kind of lived 819 00:37:28,109 --> 00:37:30,293 in my own shell for the longest time. 820 00:37:30,293 --> 00:37:33,590 After I came out myself, I started going out and 821 00:37:33,590 --> 00:37:35,243 meeting people and realizing that there are 822 00:37:35,243 --> 00:37:38,483 tons of guys just like me out there. 823 00:37:38,483 --> 00:37:41,483 Who is it to deny anybody happiness? 824 00:37:44,780 --> 00:37:47,276 You're gonna be who you're gonna be and if you're not, 825 00:37:47,276 --> 00:37:48,874 you're not happy. 826 00:37:48,874 --> 00:37:50,750 I think you see drag queens now and that's why 827 00:37:50,750 --> 00:37:53,260 they're so strong mentally. 828 00:37:53,260 --> 00:37:55,388 They don't take shit from anybody. 829 00:37:55,388 --> 00:37:57,884 And the queeny guys, they don't take shit from anybody 830 00:37:57,884 --> 00:38:00,188 because they had to deal with it. 831 00:38:00,188 --> 00:38:01,521 I could hide it. 832 00:38:03,713 --> 00:38:07,400 (bluesy guitar music) 833 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:08,483 - This is Ty. 834 00:38:13,406 --> 00:38:14,739 Isn't that nice? 835 00:38:15,822 --> 00:38:17,441 (chuckling) 836 00:38:17,441 --> 00:38:20,950 So, Ty and I would go to different events, 837 00:38:20,950 --> 00:38:25,163 any corporate events that would hire us and 838 00:38:25,163 --> 00:38:28,127 we would walk around and people would want to 839 00:38:28,127 --> 00:38:29,960 come up and touch him. 840 00:38:32,849 --> 00:38:34,175 They fear falling so the moment you let go of them, 841 00:38:34,175 --> 00:38:35,756 they start to freak out so the more secure, 842 00:38:35,756 --> 00:38:37,673 that masculine feeling, 843 00:38:40,139 --> 00:38:43,556 they become more comfortable and relaxed. 844 00:38:47,598 --> 00:38:49,521 - [Narrator] David Aguilar has used his physical prowess 845 00:38:49,521 --> 00:38:51,647 to his advantage over the years. 846 00:38:51,647 --> 00:38:56,504 - Here's a picture of me on one of the posters for one of 847 00:38:56,504 --> 00:39:00,363 the events that happened in San Francisco a long time ago. 848 00:39:00,363 --> 00:39:03,992 This was called Superball and I was the cover boy 849 00:39:03,992 --> 00:39:05,181 for the performance. 850 00:39:05,181 --> 00:39:06,820 I get a lot of people saying, 851 00:39:06,820 --> 00:39:09,160 "Now, you're what masculine is" and er-er-er. 852 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:10,617 Like, thank you. 853 00:39:10,617 --> 00:39:13,503 - [Narrator] David also brings brains to the brawn. 854 00:39:13,503 --> 00:39:17,180 He's a successful IT consultant in San Francisco. 855 00:39:17,180 --> 00:39:21,131 - I had really interesting feelings as a young boy. 856 00:39:21,131 --> 00:39:23,197 I've always known that I was attracted to 857 00:39:23,197 --> 00:39:25,249 the masculine energy. 858 00:39:25,249 --> 00:39:27,197 When I was 13 years old, people would ask me who my role 859 00:39:27,197 --> 00:39:29,942 model was and I didn't know what a role model meant to me. 860 00:39:29,942 --> 00:39:32,930 I used to walk to and from school. 861 00:39:32,930 --> 00:39:35,368 On my way home, I would hear this tapping and 862 00:39:35,368 --> 00:39:38,722 I walked into this studio and these girls were tap dancing 863 00:39:38,722 --> 00:39:41,473 and the teacher actually had asked me, did I like dancing. 864 00:39:41,473 --> 00:39:43,900 I didn't know. 865 00:39:43,900 --> 00:39:45,800 I never paid for a dance lesson in my life because of being 866 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,893 a man in ballet, it's a rarity so they'll take boys 867 00:39:49,893 --> 00:39:51,962 whenever they can get them. 868 00:39:51,962 --> 00:39:55,100 I think that it helped me with growing up without 869 00:39:55,100 --> 00:39:59,938 a solid male influence in my life because my dad and my mom 870 00:39:59,938 --> 00:40:01,868 divorced when I was three years old. 871 00:40:01,868 --> 00:40:03,448 So, I kind of grew up basically raising myself. 872 00:40:03,448 --> 00:40:06,878 The ballet, the structure, the repetitiveness, 873 00:40:06,878 --> 00:40:10,973 the security that it gave me inside myself, 874 00:40:10,973 --> 00:40:14,581 it actually helped me install that in my life. 875 00:40:14,581 --> 00:40:18,289 So, I just basically took the discipline that I had from 876 00:40:18,289 --> 00:40:22,456 the ballet and applied that into my working-out schedule. 877 00:40:28,306 --> 00:40:30,670 When people called me Muscle Boy, I was shocked. 878 00:40:30,670 --> 00:40:31,705 I'm not a muscle boy. 879 00:40:31,705 --> 00:40:34,545 I don't think I'm a muscle boy. 880 00:40:34,545 --> 00:40:38,504 I got a ton more attention and that wasn't, again, 881 00:40:38,504 --> 00:40:40,785 my driver to working out harder. 882 00:40:40,785 --> 00:40:42,544 It was, again, just the discipline. 883 00:40:42,544 --> 00:40:46,270 I don't believe that muscles equal masculine. 884 00:40:46,270 --> 00:40:50,930 I think masculine is in the mind of whoever possesses it. 885 00:40:50,930 --> 00:40:55,509 I would describe masculine as a very safe, secure energy 886 00:40:55,509 --> 00:40:59,426 and when I'm in the presence of the person that 887 00:41:01,669 --> 00:41:04,387 I love and I'm with, I feel completely safe with that person 888 00:41:04,387 --> 00:41:07,523 and to feel that is the most amazing experience. 889 00:41:07,523 --> 00:41:11,440 ("Situation" by Ex-Boyfriends) 890 00:41:25,816 --> 00:41:28,505 ♫ Sell me your arm 891 00:41:28,505 --> 00:41:31,702 ♫ It's an emergency 892 00:41:31,702 --> 00:41:34,396 ♫ You're waving your arms 893 00:41:34,396 --> 00:41:36,340 - [Narrator] Indie rock band, Ex-Boyfriends, 894 00:41:36,340 --> 00:41:38,629 was bound by some old stereotypes as it tried 895 00:41:38,629 --> 00:41:41,240 to break into the music industry. 896 00:41:41,240 --> 00:41:44,282 ♫ We've seen this all before 897 00:41:44,282 --> 00:41:47,287 - It's just this cultural mindset that being gay 898 00:41:47,287 --> 00:41:50,830 means you're feminine and feminine people can't rock, 899 00:41:50,830 --> 00:41:54,208 (upbeat pop rock music) 900 00:41:54,208 --> 00:41:57,370 which is one of the most ridiculous things 901 00:41:57,370 --> 00:41:58,857 I think I've ever encountered. 902 00:41:58,857 --> 00:42:01,327 - Maybe it has to do with the fact, like, 903 00:42:01,327 --> 00:42:03,433 music critics, the majority of them are 904 00:42:03,433 --> 00:42:05,800 just like white, straight males. 905 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:07,505 They always have to bring up, you know, 906 00:42:07,505 --> 00:42:08,482 "This gay rock group is actually pretty good!" 907 00:42:08,482 --> 00:42:09,455 - Right. 908 00:42:09,455 --> 00:42:12,338 - I'm like, well, we're just a group. 909 00:42:12,338 --> 00:42:15,671 (upbeat pop rock music) 910 00:42:19,700 --> 00:42:21,430 - They have this cultural mindset that if you're up there 911 00:42:21,430 --> 00:42:24,784 doing this shreddy guitar solo or beating the hell 912 00:42:24,784 --> 00:42:27,535 out of a drum kit, you're manly. 913 00:42:27,535 --> 00:42:30,868 (upbeat pop rock music) 914 00:42:35,470 --> 00:42:39,170 I don't think you see a lot of gay men in the world of 915 00:42:39,170 --> 00:42:41,887 rock music becoming really famous. 916 00:42:41,887 --> 00:42:43,718 We all knew George Michael was gay for years. 917 00:42:43,718 --> 00:42:46,580 We all knew The Pet Shop Boys were gay for years, 918 00:42:46,580 --> 00:42:48,767 and Michael Stipe from R.E.M. but it's this thing 919 00:42:48,767 --> 00:42:50,640 that gets danced around for so long. 920 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:51,731 "Oh, we're polysexual," or 921 00:42:51,731 --> 00:42:53,988 "we just don't like to talk about it." 922 00:42:53,988 --> 00:42:58,290 I think that's managers and representatives being like, 923 00:42:58,290 --> 00:43:01,987 you know what, you'll have more mass popularity if this is 924 00:43:01,987 --> 00:43:05,487 something that's never concretely defined. 925 00:43:09,523 --> 00:43:10,863 - [Narrator] Still, with each guitar riff, 926 00:43:10,863 --> 00:43:13,478 Ex-Boyfriends is making headway for gay rockers and 927 00:43:13,478 --> 00:43:16,224 cracking some of those old stereotypes. 928 00:43:16,224 --> 00:43:18,450 The group released two successful CDs, is working on a third 929 00:43:18,450 --> 00:43:20,617 and has a new music video. 930 00:43:22,563 --> 00:43:24,944 Ex-Boyfriends was also named Best Indie Rock Band 931 00:43:24,944 --> 00:43:29,160 by readers of the San Francisco Bay Area Guardian newspaper. 932 00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:30,753 - And it was Best Gay Indie Band or 933 00:43:30,753 --> 00:43:32,292 Best Queer Band or anything. 934 00:43:32,292 --> 00:43:34,209 It was Best Indie Band. 935 00:43:35,102 --> 00:43:39,420 It's nice to just share that without the qualifier. 936 00:43:39,420 --> 00:43:42,459 (light orchestral music) 937 00:43:47,736 --> 00:43:50,138 - [Narrator] The issue of masculinity stirs passions, 938 00:43:50,138 --> 00:43:51,657 not only in the gay community but 939 00:43:51,657 --> 00:43:54,157 in the straight world as well. 940 00:43:55,323 --> 00:43:57,606 Larry Gross is head of the School of Communication at 941 00:43:57,606 --> 00:43:59,711 the University of Southern California. 942 00:43:59,711 --> 00:44:02,676 - It's a hot-button issue in American culture. 943 00:44:02,676 --> 00:44:04,582 This is a culture in which men seem 944 00:44:04,582 --> 00:44:08,390 very concerned about issues of masculinity. 945 00:44:08,390 --> 00:44:10,808 Gay men aren't part of that culture. 946 00:44:10,808 --> 00:44:12,914 - [Narrator] However, the definition of masculinity 947 00:44:12,914 --> 00:44:14,683 can change over time. 948 00:44:14,683 --> 00:44:16,518 - There are different ways that people enact 949 00:44:16,518 --> 00:44:18,900 what it means to be masculine. 950 00:44:18,900 --> 00:44:21,900 Historically as well as contemporary times, 951 00:44:21,900 --> 00:44:23,772 men were often seen as very gallant, 952 00:44:23,772 --> 00:44:26,251 would have very intimate friends like 953 00:44:26,251 --> 00:44:28,416 Jonathan and David in the Bible or Achilles and Patroclus 954 00:44:28,416 --> 00:44:32,414 in the Iliad and they would go into battle together. 955 00:44:32,414 --> 00:44:35,748 Men would stand side by side to deal with their friendships, 956 00:44:35,748 --> 00:44:37,871 to deal with their intimacy. 957 00:44:37,871 --> 00:44:40,662 Certainly, a lot of notions that we have about masculine 958 00:44:40,662 --> 00:44:41,655 and feminine have historically been tied up in class. 959 00:44:41,655 --> 00:44:45,336 The notion of the working class was seen as 960 00:44:45,336 --> 00:44:48,954 more masculine, more rugged, more brutish where 961 00:44:48,954 --> 00:44:52,877 upper class was more refined and in some ways 962 00:44:52,877 --> 00:44:54,960 more feminine and demure. 963 00:44:58,381 --> 00:45:00,798 You travel to some Mediterranean cultures, 964 00:45:00,798 --> 00:45:03,622 or some Latin cultures and even some Asian cultures 965 00:45:03,622 --> 00:45:06,250 and you notice that men, heterosexual men, 966 00:45:06,250 --> 00:45:08,323 will walk sometimes arm-in-arm. 967 00:45:08,323 --> 00:45:09,670 They will touch each other more, 968 00:45:09,670 --> 00:45:11,230 they will stand closer to each other. 969 00:45:11,230 --> 00:45:12,653 - A man will kiss another man on each cheek. 970 00:45:12,653 --> 00:45:14,506 - Proof again that it's a cultural difference, 971 00:45:14,506 --> 00:45:19,510 not something that's genetic, biological, or DNA related. 972 00:45:19,510 --> 00:45:21,714 That it has something to do with what the culture 973 00:45:21,714 --> 00:45:24,220 allows people to do. 974 00:45:24,220 --> 00:45:26,321 It's really within the United States we have 975 00:45:26,321 --> 00:45:29,560 a very rigid model of masculinity. 976 00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:33,793 Rugged individualism was about conquering the West, 977 00:45:33,793 --> 00:45:38,176 being stoic, being triumphant, facing these kind of odds. 978 00:45:38,176 --> 00:45:40,906 Just two men hugging, utterly non-sexual, 979 00:45:40,906 --> 00:45:42,700 just an expression of affection, 980 00:45:42,700 --> 00:45:45,685 would have been considered unmasculine. 981 00:45:45,685 --> 00:45:49,315 However, it does seem to have brought it out a bit. 982 00:45:49,315 --> 00:45:52,315 We have a bit more space in terms of 983 00:45:52,315 --> 00:45:53,740 what it means to be masculine. 984 00:45:53,740 --> 00:45:55,321 Now, you can express certain emotions although 985 00:45:55,321 --> 00:45:57,364 there is still the notion that you're supposed to be strong. 986 00:45:57,364 --> 00:46:00,402 - Sports figures are on TV and they cry over some problem 987 00:46:00,402 --> 00:46:03,790 or some loss that they've had. 988 00:46:03,790 --> 00:46:05,574 That's also changed. 989 00:46:05,574 --> 00:46:07,268 Sports figures being allowed to cry? 990 00:46:07,268 --> 00:46:09,127 Many people argue that today, 991 00:46:09,127 --> 00:46:11,920 the heterosexual man, who is very emotional, 992 00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:13,573 who acts as if he were more sensitive, 993 00:46:13,573 --> 00:46:17,118 is more tuned to his clothing, to his hairstyles, 994 00:46:17,118 --> 00:46:19,640 has been labeled the metrosexual. 995 00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,360 There have also been words called the man-date, 996 00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,809 or the bromance, for guys who are really 997 00:46:24,809 --> 00:46:28,163 close to one another, heterosexual guys who get together, 998 00:46:28,163 --> 00:46:30,893 talk about their lives, what their emotions are. 999 00:46:30,893 --> 00:46:34,481 So, something has happened in our society in the last 1000 00:46:34,481 --> 00:46:37,698 20 to 30 years that has changed the definition of 1001 00:46:37,698 --> 00:46:40,700 what it means to be masculine and one of those things 1002 00:46:40,700 --> 00:46:43,269 that it demonstrates is that masculine is not 1003 00:46:43,269 --> 00:46:46,903 a fixed concept, that it's constantly variable 1004 00:46:46,903 --> 00:46:48,903 and constantly changing. 1005 00:46:53,189 --> 00:46:55,118 - [Narrator] The concept of what it means to be a man 1006 00:46:55,118 --> 00:46:57,785 may evolve over time, however, there is no more iconic 1007 00:46:57,785 --> 00:47:01,394 figure of masculinity than the cowboy. 1008 00:47:01,394 --> 00:47:03,320 - The thing that I love the most about being 1009 00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:05,937 out on the horse is the fact that you really 1010 00:47:05,937 --> 00:47:09,604 have to have communication with that animal. 1011 00:47:09,604 --> 00:47:12,902 (upbeat country guitar music) 1012 00:47:12,902 --> 00:47:16,600 The definition of a barrel horse is a controlled runaway. 1013 00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,760 If that horse is running at the speed of some 1014 00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:21,924 40 to 60 miles an hour, 1015 00:47:21,924 --> 00:47:23,972 if you are not in tune with that animal and 1016 00:47:23,972 --> 00:47:25,998 that horse decides to run away with you, 1017 00:47:25,998 --> 00:47:28,164 there's nothing that can stop that horse. 1018 00:47:28,164 --> 00:47:30,660 That is a huge, huge factor when it comes to training 1019 00:47:30,660 --> 00:47:33,570 these horses and competing on them and 1020 00:47:33,570 --> 00:47:34,616 that's what I love so much. 1021 00:47:34,616 --> 00:47:35,906 - [Narrator] James and his partner, Matt, 1022 00:47:35,906 --> 00:47:37,557 could be described as the real-life 1023 00:47:37,557 --> 00:47:38,985 Brokeback Mountain cowboys. 1024 00:47:38,985 --> 00:47:41,694 The couple own a ranch outside Scottsdale, Arizona. 1025 00:47:41,694 --> 00:47:45,343 - We have 15 horses between myself and my partner, Matthew, 1026 00:47:45,343 --> 00:47:47,742 and we have two babies on the way. 1027 00:47:47,742 --> 00:47:51,486 We have six dogs, we have cats, fish, you name it. 1028 00:47:51,486 --> 00:47:53,688 We've got a lot of animals on our ranch. 1029 00:47:53,688 --> 00:47:55,131 - What drew me to James, there was, of course, 1030 00:47:55,131 --> 00:47:57,622 the initial attraction and then there was 1031 00:47:57,622 --> 00:47:59,605 what's kept us together, 1032 00:47:59,605 --> 00:48:02,698 what made me realize he could be my partner was just 1033 00:48:02,698 --> 00:48:04,918 his values and morals and our mutual goals, 1034 00:48:04,918 --> 00:48:06,166 what we want to do with our lives and 1035 00:48:06,166 --> 00:48:07,705 what we think is important, 1036 00:48:07,705 --> 00:48:08,990 the kind of people we want around us and 1037 00:48:08,990 --> 00:48:11,335 the kind of activities and that we want to be 1038 00:48:11,335 --> 00:48:13,184 in a monogamous relationship versus an open 1039 00:48:13,184 --> 00:48:16,684 and that we value our horses and property. 1040 00:48:19,893 --> 00:48:23,140 - [Narrator] James has spent most of his life around horses. 1041 00:48:23,140 --> 00:48:25,219 - When I came out in the straight horse community, 1042 00:48:25,219 --> 00:48:27,846 it was very jaded, I guess you could say. 1043 00:48:27,846 --> 00:48:29,608 You used to be able to go in there and have nice, 1044 00:48:29,608 --> 00:48:32,137 easy conversations with people and after a while, 1045 00:48:32,137 --> 00:48:34,851 when they found out, they would turn their head. 1046 00:48:34,851 --> 00:48:36,976 It hasn't been until probably just the last few years 1047 00:48:36,976 --> 00:48:40,960 where it's become more and more accepted whereas 1048 00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:42,613 many, many people have one, come out of the closet that have 1049 00:48:42,613 --> 00:48:45,310 been in the horse show industry, such as myself, 1050 00:48:45,310 --> 00:48:47,643 as well as your top trainers and professional trainers 1051 00:48:47,643 --> 00:48:50,155 in the world that qualify and go to the world every year now 1052 00:48:50,155 --> 00:48:52,326 have also come out of the closet and 1053 00:48:52,326 --> 00:48:54,510 it's become much, much more acceptable. 1054 00:48:54,510 --> 00:48:56,612 - [Narrator] James also competes in many of the 20 or so 1055 00:48:56,612 --> 00:48:59,502 gay rodeos held across the United States 1056 00:48:59,502 --> 00:49:01,335 and Canada every year. 1057 00:49:02,581 --> 00:49:06,481 It can be just as rough-and-tumble as any straight rodeo. 1058 00:49:06,481 --> 00:49:08,764 (crowds cheering) 1059 00:49:08,764 --> 00:49:12,660 (upbeat country guitar music) 1060 00:49:12,660 --> 00:49:14,708 But the gay rodeos also include a couple of events 1061 00:49:14,708 --> 00:49:17,500 you won't find on the straight circuit. 1062 00:49:17,500 --> 00:49:18,924 In the Wild Drag Race, men dress up in women's clothing 1063 00:49:18,924 --> 00:49:20,812 and try to mount a young steer. 1064 00:49:20,812 --> 00:49:24,229 Wonder where they came up with that idea. 1065 00:49:27,294 --> 00:49:28,538 Then, there's Goat Dressing, 1066 00:49:28,538 --> 00:49:30,623 where contestants try to put underwear on a goat 1067 00:49:30,623 --> 00:49:33,206 in the quickest amount of time. 1068 00:49:34,154 --> 00:49:36,490 It's all part of the campy side of gay rodeo 1069 00:49:36,490 --> 00:49:39,361 that makes the events, in a word, special. 1070 00:49:39,361 --> 00:49:42,601 (upbeat country guitar music) 1071 00:49:42,601 --> 00:49:44,605 - They call me Wild Wild Wes on the rodeo circuit. 1072 00:49:44,605 --> 00:49:47,203 I'm a little bit on the wild side when it comes to 1073 00:49:47,203 --> 00:49:51,370 the spirit and the energy of what makes gay rodeo fun. 1074 00:49:52,929 --> 00:49:55,533 It's really cool that we have the camp events. 1075 00:49:55,533 --> 00:49:58,614 We are gay and we enjoy fun things. 1076 00:49:58,614 --> 00:50:01,654 A new contestant that maybe doesn't have a horse 1077 00:50:01,654 --> 00:50:04,150 and never owned a horse but they'd like to be 1078 00:50:04,150 --> 00:50:06,391 involved with gay rodeo, they can actually go out 1079 00:50:06,391 --> 00:50:10,558 to the rodeo arena and have a good time and actually compete 1080 00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:14,852 - [Narrator] James said when he was growing up, 1081 00:50:14,852 --> 00:50:16,708 he didn't know of any gay rodeos. 1082 00:50:16,708 --> 00:50:18,482 - I didn't know what gay was. 1083 00:50:18,482 --> 00:50:20,333 I just knew that it was something that was not looked upon. 1084 00:50:20,333 --> 00:50:23,864 Honestly, until I was probably 18 or 19 years old, 1085 00:50:23,864 --> 00:50:26,279 I had never met a gay person in my life. 1086 00:50:26,279 --> 00:50:27,842 I played the straight role until I was 1087 00:50:27,842 --> 00:50:29,459 in my early to mid 20s. 1088 00:50:29,459 --> 00:50:31,763 Any of my guy friends that were being chummy, 1089 00:50:31,763 --> 00:50:33,178 that were just being good guys, 1090 00:50:33,178 --> 00:50:34,550 I would never allow them to get close to me because 1091 00:50:34,550 --> 00:50:37,160 I didn't want any interaction to be stereotyped 1092 00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:38,450 as being a gay man. 1093 00:50:38,450 --> 00:50:40,400 I had a girlfriend for many years and competed in 1094 00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:43,364 the junior rodeo circuit and no, everything was hush-hush. 1095 00:50:43,364 --> 00:50:45,896 That was not looked upon as something was acceptable 1096 00:50:45,896 --> 00:50:48,533 in my family and then I came to grips with myself 1097 00:50:48,533 --> 00:50:50,619 in terms that I had to just be me. 1098 00:50:50,619 --> 00:50:52,526 When I first come out of the closet, my dad says, 1099 00:50:52,526 --> 00:50:54,222 "I hope you don't come home wearing a pair of high heels." 1100 00:50:54,222 --> 00:50:55,273 You know? 1101 00:50:55,273 --> 00:50:57,674 But, you know, we laughed upon it and I said, 1102 00:50:57,674 --> 00:50:59,857 "Dad, you would be surprised what 1103 00:50:59,857 --> 00:51:01,280 "I can do in a pair of high heels." 1104 00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,857 My family is very accepting of it now. 1105 00:51:03,857 --> 00:51:06,332 There's a lot of images that are portrayed out there of us 1106 00:51:06,332 --> 00:51:09,256 people that are gay and they understand 1107 00:51:09,256 --> 00:51:11,735 that we're just people, too. 1108 00:51:11,735 --> 00:51:13,400 Some people say it's chosen. 1109 00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:14,465 I don't personally believe that. 1110 00:51:14,465 --> 00:51:16,394 In my situation, it's something that I've known 1111 00:51:16,394 --> 00:51:18,989 ever since I was a child. 1112 00:51:18,989 --> 00:51:21,464 - [Narrator] Matt also tried to play it straight for a while 1113 00:51:21,464 --> 00:51:22,988 but knew at a pretty young age he was gay. 1114 00:51:22,988 --> 00:51:26,888 - Well, I grew up in a very rural town out in the middle 1115 00:51:26,888 --> 00:51:31,550 of beautiful rural Oregon, and then I went on to date women. 1116 00:51:32,228 --> 00:51:35,348 To me, it was just playing the part. 1117 00:51:35,348 --> 00:51:37,300 I was doing what my parents wanted me to do. 1118 00:51:37,300 --> 00:51:38,687 If they had their way, 1119 00:51:38,687 --> 00:51:40,770 I would have gotten a degree in agriculture and 1120 00:51:40,770 --> 00:51:42,698 been running a successful ranch 1121 00:51:42,698 --> 00:51:44,552 up there with them, which they do. 1122 00:51:44,552 --> 00:51:46,658 I just couldn't do it. 1123 00:51:46,658 --> 00:51:49,877 I felt like it was a lie to the girl. 1124 00:51:49,877 --> 00:51:51,884 It's too much of a show for me with women. 1125 00:51:51,884 --> 00:51:54,380 I remember I had to be the big stud and do all this 1126 00:51:54,380 --> 00:51:57,444 and put on this big man act and now I want that back. 1127 00:51:57,444 --> 00:51:59,159 I want that, too! 1128 00:51:59,159 --> 00:52:00,683 (chuckling) 1129 00:52:00,683 --> 00:52:02,258 - What is nice about Matthew and I, my partner, 1130 00:52:02,258 --> 00:52:04,796 is we both are men and we both carry that image. 1131 00:52:04,796 --> 00:52:06,491 Somebody that is not afraid to get their hands dirty, 1132 00:52:06,491 --> 00:52:08,270 not afraid to go out there and shovel but also 1133 00:52:08,270 --> 00:52:10,121 is not afraid to go in the house and cook dinner 1134 00:52:10,121 --> 00:52:11,227 if they need to, also. 1135 00:52:11,227 --> 00:52:12,986 - Knowing that a guy has my back, 1136 00:52:12,986 --> 00:52:14,749 I always felt like that was kind of what 1137 00:52:14,749 --> 00:52:17,198 the man did for the woman but I feel like I can protect 1138 00:52:17,198 --> 00:52:19,715 my partner as well as he can protect me. 1139 00:52:19,715 --> 00:52:21,977 No one gets anything over on us. 1140 00:52:21,977 --> 00:52:24,563 I feel like I'm pretty safe that way. 1141 00:52:24,563 --> 00:52:26,146 I feel very secure. 1142 00:52:28,544 --> 00:52:30,962 (men shouting) 1143 00:52:30,962 --> 00:52:33,712 (crowd cheering) 1144 00:52:37,733 --> 00:52:41,144 - The bull I got on today, he was kind of nasty in the chute 1145 00:52:41,144 --> 00:52:43,727 and he made a quick right turn, 1146 00:52:45,548 --> 00:52:49,465 banged me up into the gate and hit my elbow and 1147 00:52:51,574 --> 00:52:52,706 I lost all focus. 1148 00:52:52,706 --> 00:52:56,453 My instinct took over and that was to just 1149 00:52:56,453 --> 00:53:00,327 reach for something because I was in a bad spot. 1150 00:53:00,327 --> 00:53:02,100 I was in trouble. 1151 00:53:02,100 --> 00:53:04,619 - [Narrator] Steven Daigle became 1152 00:53:04,619 --> 00:53:07,681 America's favorite gay cowboy when he appeared on 1153 00:53:07,681 --> 00:53:10,337 the CBS reality show, Big Brother. 1154 00:53:10,337 --> 00:53:12,167 - Just doing rodeo itself is an adrenaline rush. 1155 00:53:12,167 --> 00:53:13,668 It's competition. 1156 00:53:13,668 --> 00:53:15,710 You're competing against yourself. 1157 00:53:15,710 --> 00:53:16,280 You're competing against animals. 1158 00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:17,762 You're competing against other people. 1159 00:53:17,762 --> 00:53:20,243 I don't know, it makes you feel like you're living. 1160 00:53:20,243 --> 00:53:22,286 You actually get a lot of notoriety out of it. 1161 00:53:22,286 --> 00:53:23,846 People love to watch it. 1162 00:53:23,846 --> 00:53:26,327 It's definitely good for getting a hug-up 1163 00:53:26,327 --> 00:53:28,178 every now and then. 1164 00:53:28,178 --> 00:53:29,305 (laughing) 1165 00:53:29,305 --> 00:53:30,773 To get on the back of that bull and sit down, 1166 00:53:30,773 --> 00:53:32,834 you have to be mentally ready, physically ready and 1167 00:53:32,834 --> 00:53:34,397 all of it's just exciting. 1168 00:53:34,397 --> 00:53:37,730 Gay cowboys are very in the media right now. 1169 00:53:37,730 --> 00:53:40,563 (horse whinnying) 1170 00:53:42,821 --> 00:53:44,735 You want your 15 minutes, too? 1171 00:53:44,735 --> 00:53:47,990 Some of the things you never got to see on the show, 1172 00:53:47,990 --> 00:53:50,210 people were more shocked to find out I was a bull rider 1173 00:53:50,210 --> 00:53:52,119 than they were to find out I was gay. 1174 00:53:52,119 --> 00:53:54,932 Like, when we had conversations, people were like, 1175 00:53:54,932 --> 00:53:56,315 "Oh, you're gay, oh okay." 1176 00:53:56,315 --> 00:53:57,548 Then, they're like 1177 00:53:57,548 --> 00:53:58,631 "You ride bulls? 1178 00:53:58,631 --> 00:53:59,611 "Now way!" 1179 00:53:59,611 --> 00:54:00,584 They're like, 1180 00:54:00,584 --> 00:54:01,562 "Shut up! 1181 00:54:01,562 --> 00:54:02,831 "I can't believe you get on the back of a bull! 1182 00:54:02,831 --> 00:54:03,824 "That's so crazy!" 1183 00:54:03,824 --> 00:54:07,798 People think that, like, a gay guy couldn't ride a bull 1184 00:54:07,798 --> 00:54:10,901 or ride a bucking horse and what they don't realize is that 1185 00:54:10,901 --> 00:54:13,943 I'm just as much of a man as a straight man is but 1186 00:54:13,943 --> 00:54:15,935 there's a difference, I think, 1187 00:54:15,935 --> 00:54:18,134 between masculinity and being tough. 1188 00:54:18,134 --> 00:54:19,819 I think you can be very masculine and not be tough 1189 00:54:19,819 --> 00:54:21,764 and I think a lot of these, 1190 00:54:21,764 --> 00:54:23,594 what you might call effeminate guys, 1191 00:54:23,594 --> 00:54:26,657 that are rodeo-ing, they may be very effeminate 1192 00:54:26,657 --> 00:54:27,925 but they're tough. 1193 00:54:27,925 --> 00:54:31,550 (upbeat dance music) 1194 00:54:31,550 --> 00:54:33,438 ♫ Oh oh 1195 00:54:33,438 --> 00:54:35,605 ♫ Come on 1196 00:54:36,914 --> 00:54:39,200 - [Narrator] James and Steve are also regular fixtures 1197 00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:41,860 at gay rodeos but more often you'll see them 1198 00:54:41,860 --> 00:54:43,796 in jean skirts instead of Wranglers. 1199 00:54:43,796 --> 00:54:45,340 A few years ago, the couple decided to dress up in drag 1200 00:54:45,340 --> 00:54:47,590 to raise money for charity. 1201 00:54:49,787 --> 00:54:52,628 I wanted to prove to people that you could still be a man 1202 00:54:52,628 --> 00:54:54,467 and wear a dress and raise money but when it all comes off, 1203 00:54:54,467 --> 00:54:56,105 you're still a man no matter what. 1204 00:54:56,105 --> 00:54:59,552 I am just as rough and tumble in drag as I am out of drag. 1205 00:54:59,552 --> 00:55:01,140 I've ridden bulls. 1206 00:55:01,140 --> 00:55:02,906 I've done steer riding. 1207 00:55:02,906 --> 00:55:04,274 I do chute-dogging. 1208 00:55:04,274 --> 00:55:06,926 - It takes a man to walk around in a pair of heels. 1209 00:55:06,926 --> 00:55:08,286 Trust me. 1210 00:55:08,286 --> 00:55:09,557 It kills your feet. 1211 00:55:09,557 --> 00:55:13,265 Not only that, to have big enough balls, shall I say, 1212 00:55:13,265 --> 00:55:16,697 to walk through a crowd of say, a leather community, 1213 00:55:16,697 --> 00:55:19,619 in drag, and they're looking at you thinking, 1214 00:55:19,619 --> 00:55:21,100 "Why do you belong here?" 1215 00:55:21,100 --> 00:55:23,110 Then, by the time the night's over, 1216 00:55:23,110 --> 00:55:24,352 they're eating out of your hand thinking 1217 00:55:24,352 --> 00:55:26,291 you're the best thing since peanut butter. 1218 00:55:26,291 --> 00:55:28,844 That's an accomplishment. 1219 00:55:28,844 --> 00:55:30,716 - As you can see, this is not an easy process. 1220 00:55:30,716 --> 00:55:33,211 We're putting body parts in places they don't need to be 1221 00:55:33,211 --> 00:55:35,240 and we shove ourselves into clothing 1222 00:55:35,240 --> 00:55:38,270 that should not really fit. 1223 00:55:38,270 --> 00:55:40,346 I tell people all the time that it takes balls to be a woman 1224 00:55:40,346 --> 00:55:41,596 It really does. 1225 00:55:45,827 --> 00:55:47,444 It ain't easy being pretty. 1226 00:55:47,444 --> 00:55:48,989 I actually enjoy the fact that 1227 00:55:48,989 --> 00:55:50,798 I get to be somebody different. 1228 00:55:50,798 --> 00:55:54,464 I've made up this character, for good or bad or indifferent, 1229 00:55:54,464 --> 00:55:58,208 and you know what, I get to raise money for charity 1230 00:55:58,208 --> 00:55:59,827 across the US. 1231 00:55:59,827 --> 00:56:01,583 I'm fundraising, so if anybody would 1232 00:56:01,583 --> 00:56:02,873 like to buy some raffle tickets? 1233 00:56:02,873 --> 00:56:04,623 Do you have the time? 1234 00:56:07,589 --> 00:56:09,539 I get to make a difference. 1235 00:56:09,539 --> 00:56:13,340 I get to give back to the communities that I'm involved in. 1236 00:56:13,340 --> 00:56:16,133 We need to give back because 1237 00:56:16,133 --> 00:56:18,691 we get so much from our communities. 1238 00:56:18,691 --> 00:56:20,274 - I think it's fun. 1239 00:56:22,180 --> 00:56:23,621 I like the shock value. 1240 00:56:23,621 --> 00:56:26,257 The people who knew me before, as Steve, 1241 00:56:26,257 --> 00:56:29,689 and then I kind of come out as Aspen. 1242 00:56:29,689 --> 00:56:32,123 My best friends do not recognize me. 1243 00:56:32,123 --> 00:56:34,836 I kind of like that aspect of not saying that I'm hiding, 1244 00:56:34,836 --> 00:56:37,739 but it's a different persona and a different side of me 1245 00:56:37,739 --> 00:56:40,220 that I can get across to people. 1246 00:56:40,220 --> 00:56:42,414 The drag community is a very loving group. 1247 00:56:42,414 --> 00:56:44,488 It's sort of like they feel that they have to 1248 00:56:44,488 --> 00:56:46,455 protect one another and help one another because 1249 00:56:46,455 --> 00:56:48,187 they're discriminated by people within their own community. 1250 00:56:48,187 --> 00:56:51,742 Not by everyone, but there are those people who 1251 00:56:51,742 --> 00:56:53,589 discriminate against the drag. 1252 00:56:53,589 --> 00:56:55,991 For a group that already has the tinge of discrimination 1253 00:56:55,991 --> 00:56:58,898 against ourselves from the communities at large, 1254 00:56:58,898 --> 00:57:00,630 it's discouraging to see that 1255 00:57:00,630 --> 00:57:02,974 we're discriminating against each other. 1256 00:57:02,974 --> 00:57:04,321 This is one persona. 1257 00:57:04,321 --> 00:57:05,780 When this comes off, I forget about that, 1258 00:57:05,780 --> 00:57:07,285 because that's not who I am. 1259 00:57:07,285 --> 00:57:09,795 I'm James and when I put this on, then I'm Janet. 1260 00:57:09,795 --> 00:57:11,263 I'm two separate people. 1261 00:57:11,263 --> 00:57:13,578 Once she comes off, she's in a box and 1262 00:57:13,578 --> 00:57:16,879 I'm back to being a regular Joe Shmoe. 1263 00:57:16,879 --> 00:57:20,114 I'm not as masculine as a lot of guys out there but 1264 00:57:20,114 --> 00:57:23,310 I'm still a guy once she comes off. 1265 00:57:26,500 --> 00:57:28,890 - [Narrator] The art of drag dates back to 1266 00:57:28,890 --> 00:57:31,855 the earliest days of the gay community. 1267 00:57:31,855 --> 00:57:34,273 In the 1930s, this nightclub was all the rage 1268 00:57:34,273 --> 00:57:36,532 with both gays and straights. 1269 00:57:36,532 --> 00:57:40,180 - Within gay male culture, there was a celebration at 1270 00:57:40,180 --> 00:57:43,512 being able to defy gender roles. 1271 00:57:43,512 --> 00:57:47,356 Gender roles were seen and arguably still are seen, 1272 00:57:47,356 --> 00:57:49,930 as very oppressive, very limited. 1273 00:57:49,930 --> 00:57:52,213 They already knew they were excluded from the mainstream 1274 00:57:52,213 --> 00:57:54,200 because their sexuality didn't fit the role. 1275 00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:58,157 They have, then, freedom to also play with gender roles. 1276 00:57:58,157 --> 00:58:00,774 - Camp is making fun of a kind of a failed seriousness, 1277 00:58:00,774 --> 00:58:04,497 so for those who take their gender expression very, 1278 00:58:04,497 --> 00:58:07,515 very seriously, for example, poking fun at that 1279 00:58:07,515 --> 00:58:10,433 and showing that their gender expression is just as much 1280 00:58:10,433 --> 00:58:13,697 a performance as anyone else's. 1281 00:58:13,697 --> 00:58:16,113 - People who go in drag often, 1282 00:58:16,113 --> 00:58:19,137 although they are embracing the feminine part of themselves, 1283 00:58:19,137 --> 00:58:21,720 do so with a masculine bravado. 1284 00:58:26,937 --> 00:58:30,715 They're embracing both sides of their sexuality. 1285 00:58:30,715 --> 00:58:32,598 (upbeat pop rock music) 1286 00:58:32,598 --> 00:58:34,998 - It wasn't that there seemed like there was something 1287 00:58:34,998 --> 00:58:37,259 better on one side of the fence than the other. 1288 00:58:37,259 --> 00:58:38,955 I think it was more being able to find a place where 1289 00:58:38,955 --> 00:58:41,554 I was comfortable being perceived by others 1290 00:58:41,554 --> 00:58:43,417 as I was perceiving myself. 1291 00:58:43,417 --> 00:58:46,829 I think the question I hear a lot from people is 1292 00:58:46,829 --> 00:58:48,977 "Why did you decide to become a man?" 1293 00:58:48,977 --> 00:58:50,897 And my answer is always that I always felt like 1294 00:58:50,897 --> 00:58:52,438 I was one already. 1295 00:58:52,438 --> 00:58:55,675 I never would have thought that the differences between 1296 00:58:55,675 --> 00:58:58,715 testosterone and that set of hormones affect your body 1297 00:58:58,715 --> 00:59:02,380 and estrogen and those set of hormones affect your body. 1298 00:59:02,380 --> 00:59:04,711 I would have been like, oh I'm sure it's not a big deal, 1299 00:59:04,711 --> 00:59:06,955 but it is and it's a huge deal. 1300 00:59:06,955 --> 00:59:08,795 Your sexuality is incredibly elevated in a way that 1301 00:59:08,795 --> 00:59:12,878 I had never experienced my sexuality ever before. 1302 00:59:14,380 --> 00:59:16,939 My aggression was really elevated in a way that 1303 00:59:16,939 --> 00:59:19,798 I hadn't expected and that I hadn't ever experienced. 1304 00:59:19,798 --> 00:59:22,635 I can't believe guys walk around like this all the time. 1305 00:59:22,635 --> 00:59:24,193 How do they not feel like crazy people? 1306 00:59:24,193 --> 00:59:25,275 I feel like a crazy person. 1307 00:59:25,275 --> 00:59:29,780 I probably cried like, four times in the last eight years. 1308 00:59:29,780 --> 00:59:30,518 I lost my-- 1309 00:59:30,518 --> 00:59:32,918 I wasn't able to do it anymore. 1310 00:59:32,918 --> 00:59:35,192 If I got hit in the face or something. 1311 00:59:35,192 --> 00:59:36,657 (chuckling) 1312 00:59:36,657 --> 00:59:39,238 After I started taking testosterone, 1313 00:59:39,238 --> 00:59:40,416 people would be like, 1314 00:59:40,416 --> 00:59:41,558 "What's wrong with you?" 1315 00:59:41,558 --> 00:59:42,715 And I'd be like, 1316 00:59:42,715 --> 00:59:43,835 "I don't know but I'm really pissed. 1317 00:59:43,835 --> 00:59:44,955 "I can't explain it to you and 1318 00:59:44,955 --> 00:59:46,333 "I don't think I should have to. 1319 00:59:46,333 --> 00:59:47,456 "I'm just pissed." 1320 00:59:47,456 --> 00:59:49,990 I felt really almost a little bit sad about losing 1321 00:59:49,990 --> 00:59:50,917 that ability to communicate. 1322 00:59:50,917 --> 00:59:54,337 All of a sudden, I couldn't do it anymore. 1323 00:59:54,337 --> 00:59:56,555 I felt like my vocabulary got cut in half. 1324 00:59:56,555 --> 00:59:58,518 I could feel it but I couldn't explain it 1325 00:59:58,518 --> 01:00:00,118 and I don't know why. 1326 01:00:00,118 --> 01:00:03,190 It just kind of went away. 1327 01:00:03,190 --> 01:00:05,990 I think that we value masculinity so much 1328 01:00:05,990 --> 01:00:07,195 more in our society than we do femininity. 1329 01:00:07,195 --> 01:00:10,235 There's male privilege, which just happens. 1330 01:00:10,235 --> 01:00:12,380 It's people who will look you in the eye 1331 01:00:12,380 --> 01:00:13,578 when they talk to you. 1332 01:00:13,578 --> 01:00:15,216 That doesn't happen for women. 1333 01:00:15,216 --> 01:00:17,515 When you talk, people will listen to you. 1334 01:00:17,515 --> 01:00:21,435 When you have an idea, people will believe that it works. 1335 01:00:21,435 --> 01:00:25,602 You're constantly rewarded for masculinity in this way. 1336 01:00:30,504 --> 01:00:33,322 Even in other kinds of communities, like dyke communities, 1337 01:00:33,322 --> 01:00:35,984 butches are rewarded for being more masculine. 1338 01:00:35,984 --> 01:00:38,144 The same thing happens in gay male communities 1339 01:00:38,144 --> 01:00:41,424 that butcher, bigger, stronger, more straight-acting men 1340 01:00:41,424 --> 01:00:45,685 are more sexually valuable than feminine men. 1341 01:00:45,685 --> 01:00:50,640 I feel like I had to grow and learn how to become a man, 1342 01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:53,285 just seeing how we teach men how to be men. 1343 01:00:53,285 --> 01:00:56,266 I think I had to learn the same way as everybody else did. 1344 01:00:56,266 --> 01:00:58,850 How I sat and how I walked and how I talked and 1345 01:00:58,850 --> 01:00:59,706 all these things that I felt like, 1346 01:00:59,706 --> 01:01:01,962 if you do these things, that's what makes a man. 1347 01:01:01,962 --> 01:01:05,445 If you pay for dinner or if you take up lots of space 1348 01:01:05,445 --> 01:01:09,450 with your body or if you act like you know 1349 01:01:09,450 --> 01:01:12,544 what you're doing all the time, then that's what men do, 1350 01:01:12,544 --> 01:01:14,141 so that's what I'm gonna do and it didn't feel right and 1351 01:01:14,141 --> 01:01:16,325 I didn't know why. 1352 01:01:16,325 --> 01:01:18,801 It wasn't until I started being able to be in 1353 01:01:18,801 --> 01:01:20,890 gay male spaces that I realized that there were 1354 01:01:20,890 --> 01:01:24,848 a hundred million other ways of experiencing maleness 1355 01:01:24,848 --> 01:01:27,648 and masculinity than what television or billboards 1356 01:01:27,648 --> 01:01:29,866 or sports or whatever said. 1357 01:01:29,866 --> 01:01:32,709 You could touch each other, not in a sexual way necessarily, 1358 01:01:32,709 --> 01:01:35,747 but just like you could be friendly and funny and silly 1359 01:01:35,747 --> 01:01:39,770 and affectionate and genuinely care for another man. 1360 01:01:39,770 --> 01:01:41,706 I was like, oh my God, you can do all of these things. 1361 01:01:41,706 --> 01:01:44,506 But I wasn't allowed to do any of this stuff and 1362 01:01:44,506 --> 01:01:46,288 all of a sudden it was like permission to be able to. 1363 01:01:46,288 --> 01:01:48,469 No, you can do whatever you want. 1364 01:01:48,469 --> 01:01:52,768 - [Narrator] Jack Malebranche lives in Portland, Oregon. 1365 01:01:52,768 --> 01:01:56,351 He works for an exercise equipment company. 1366 01:01:59,184 --> 01:02:00,606 Jack is also an author. 1367 01:02:00,606 --> 01:02:02,125 He's written a book that takes head-on 1368 01:02:02,125 --> 01:02:04,460 the issue of gay masculinity. 1369 01:02:04,460 --> 01:02:06,947 Androphilia, a Greek term for love of maleness, 1370 01:02:06,947 --> 01:02:09,507 angered some critics in the gay community. 1371 01:02:09,507 --> 01:02:13,600 - I don't believe that gay should be the defining quality 1372 01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:14,904 that you associate yourself with. 1373 01:02:14,904 --> 01:02:16,707 There are a million other things that I can be 1374 01:02:16,707 --> 01:02:18,145 at any given time. 1375 01:02:18,145 --> 01:02:22,307 Making gay the primary one is counter-productive. 1376 01:02:22,307 --> 01:02:26,123 It puts you forever in a small group that separates you 1377 01:02:26,123 --> 01:02:28,504 from other people and separates you from other men. 1378 01:02:28,504 --> 01:02:33,128 I share more interests with other men than, in many cases, 1379 01:02:33,128 --> 01:02:34,628 I do with gay men. 1380 01:02:35,507 --> 01:02:38,526 Why should I limit myself by clustering around this gay 1381 01:02:38,526 --> 01:02:42,101 community and making that the center of my whole identity? 1382 01:02:42,101 --> 01:02:45,166 Mainstream gay culture is a celebration of fashion, 1383 01:02:45,166 --> 01:02:47,326 the kind of music that 14 year old girls listen to. 1384 01:02:47,326 --> 01:02:48,984 It's the kind of thing that housewives would like. 1385 01:02:48,984 --> 01:02:52,606 It's not something that you'd associate with men. 1386 01:02:52,606 --> 01:02:56,408 As they become progressively involved in gay culture, 1387 01:02:56,408 --> 01:02:58,443 they just move further and further away from 1388 01:02:58,443 --> 01:03:01,304 what it means to be a man. 1389 01:03:01,304 --> 01:03:02,947 They become unable to relate to other men and 1390 01:03:02,947 --> 01:03:05,164 I think that's unhealthy. 1391 01:03:05,164 --> 01:03:08,206 In the gay community, and this is why I think effeminacy 1392 01:03:08,206 --> 01:03:12,206 defines gayness, is that it's okay to be effeminate but 1393 01:03:12,206 --> 01:03:15,405 your masculinity is always going to be in question. 1394 01:03:15,405 --> 01:03:18,581 We give straight men a wide range of how they can behave. 1395 01:03:18,581 --> 01:03:21,464 They can be nerdy little IT guys who don't really do 1396 01:03:21,464 --> 01:03:24,584 anything traditionally masculine at all but 1397 01:03:24,584 --> 01:03:27,540 because they're straight, we give them their masculinity. 1398 01:03:27,540 --> 01:03:29,885 They automatically get their man card, 1399 01:03:29,885 --> 01:03:32,422 whereas I think homosexual men have to work for it. 1400 01:03:32,422 --> 01:03:34,547 The measure of a man should be in his accomplishments. 1401 01:03:34,547 --> 01:03:36,606 I'm not a man because of how pretty I am, 1402 01:03:36,606 --> 01:03:39,270 or because of my great new outfit, 1403 01:03:39,270 --> 01:03:42,807 I'm a man because of what I've done and who I am 1404 01:03:42,807 --> 01:03:45,188 and what I stand for and what I talk about and 1405 01:03:45,188 --> 01:03:47,368 I don't really see, in gay culture, 1406 01:03:47,368 --> 01:03:50,627 any trend towards making that the goal, 1407 01:03:50,627 --> 01:03:53,768 to center your life around your accomplishments 1408 01:03:53,768 --> 01:03:56,328 and your values and your sense of integrity 1409 01:03:56,328 --> 01:03:58,247 and your sense of honor. 1410 01:03:58,247 --> 01:04:01,747 (upbeat percussive music) 1411 01:04:02,984 --> 01:04:05,827 - Masculine cultures have had same-sex sexuality 1412 01:04:05,827 --> 01:04:09,704 involved in them ever since the beginning of time. 1413 01:04:09,704 --> 01:04:13,304 Prisoners, sailors, all sorts of cultures of men 1414 01:04:13,304 --> 01:04:16,424 have had sex with one another but it wasn't really until 1415 01:04:16,424 --> 01:04:20,466 the 1940s when you started to have a self-identified 1416 01:04:20,466 --> 01:04:24,549 gay male community that was also specifically and 1417 01:04:25,448 --> 01:04:28,564 self-consciously masculine identified. 1418 01:04:28,564 --> 01:04:31,164 - As the soldiers returned from World War II, 1419 01:04:31,164 --> 01:04:34,184 these port cities like San Diego, Los Angeles, 1420 01:04:34,184 --> 01:04:37,107 San Francisco, New York, soldiers would stay there. 1421 01:04:37,107 --> 01:04:38,846 Having discovered each other, 1422 01:04:38,846 --> 01:04:41,480 started living and forming communities. 1423 01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:44,600 You started to see increasingly the adoption of 1424 01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:47,224 these masculine working-class forms. 1425 01:04:47,224 --> 01:04:49,384 You saw gay motorcycle clubs. 1426 01:04:49,384 --> 01:04:52,100 You could see pictorials and the popularity of 1427 01:04:52,100 --> 01:04:53,747 those types of magazines. 1428 01:04:53,747 --> 01:04:57,427 Beat poetry, this kind of masculine self-positioning 1429 01:04:57,427 --> 01:05:00,666 that did not necessarily excluse homosexuality and 1430 01:05:00,666 --> 01:05:04,144 you also saw a political movement that was looking for 1431 01:05:04,144 --> 01:05:08,442 legitimacy largely through normalcy and masculinity 1432 01:05:08,442 --> 01:05:10,946 was seen as one of the ways 1433 01:05:10,946 --> 01:05:14,104 in which you could be well-adjusted. 1434 01:05:14,104 --> 01:05:16,366 After the Kinsey studies came out in 1948 1435 01:05:16,366 --> 01:05:18,230 and then in 1956, 1436 01:05:18,230 --> 01:05:21,464 there was a much more widespread understanding that 1437 01:05:21,464 --> 01:05:24,664 many more men were engaging in homosexual activity 1438 01:05:24,664 --> 01:05:26,504 than was previously thought. 1439 01:05:26,504 --> 01:05:28,547 They couldn't always tell who was a homosexual just based 1440 01:05:28,547 --> 01:05:32,488 on whether or not a man was, for example, effeminate. 1441 01:05:32,488 --> 01:05:35,304 By the 1960s, you were starting to see the growth 1442 01:05:35,304 --> 01:05:38,926 of leather bars and this almost market segmentation 1443 01:05:38,926 --> 01:05:43,850 within gay male bar culture and one element of that 1444 01:05:43,850 --> 01:05:46,824 is explicitly about a kind of masculine and 1445 01:05:46,824 --> 01:05:49,204 even hyper-masculine pose. 1446 01:05:49,204 --> 01:05:51,747 - [Narrator] In 1964, Life Magazine even featured a cover 1447 01:05:51,747 --> 01:05:55,448 story investigating the secret world of the homosexual. 1448 01:05:55,448 --> 01:05:58,168 The article states that patrons of a homosexual bar 1449 01:05:58,168 --> 01:06:00,884 in San Francisco wear leather jackets, 1450 01:06:00,884 --> 01:06:03,600 make a show of masculinity and 1451 01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:05,747 scorn effeminate members of their world. 1452 01:06:05,747 --> 01:06:08,880 It also warns that for every obvious homosexual, 1453 01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:11,806 there are probably nine near-impossible to detect. 1454 01:06:11,806 --> 01:06:14,846 Artist Tom of Finland helped to embellish 1455 01:06:14,846 --> 01:06:17,506 this new-found hyper-masculine look. 1456 01:06:17,506 --> 01:06:20,568 Tom's homoerotic art appeared in various publications 1457 01:06:20,568 --> 01:06:22,651 as far back as the 1950s. 1458 01:06:23,848 --> 01:06:27,326 - He wanted to give his brothers some type of 1459 01:06:27,326 --> 01:06:30,523 masculine identity as men because society, at that time, 1460 01:06:30,523 --> 01:06:34,888 they would not even qualify us as being men. 1461 01:06:34,888 --> 01:06:37,623 He drew just beautiful men. 1462 01:06:37,623 --> 01:06:40,984 Their bodies were just stylized enough. 1463 01:06:40,984 --> 01:06:42,344 They had a certain look. 1464 01:06:42,344 --> 01:06:43,966 The way they looked at each other, 1465 01:06:43,966 --> 01:06:46,648 the whole game and the dance of it. 1466 01:06:46,648 --> 01:06:49,864 We like intrigue, we like mystery, 1467 01:06:49,864 --> 01:06:52,901 and he would actually put all of that into his drawings. 1468 01:06:52,901 --> 01:06:55,326 Masculine men having sex with each other. 1469 01:06:55,326 --> 01:06:59,128 He presented an image and we took it and made it ours. 1470 01:06:59,128 --> 01:07:03,128 - Masculinity became one of the ways that gay men 1471 01:07:03,128 --> 01:07:06,450 could find one another by emulating 1472 01:07:07,265 --> 01:07:10,410 the object of their own desire. 1473 01:07:10,410 --> 01:07:13,848 Then, you have, of course, the sexual revolution and 1474 01:07:13,848 --> 01:07:17,928 out of Gay Liberation comes the Castro Clone. 1475 01:07:17,928 --> 01:07:21,644 The irony of the Castro Clone, of course, 1476 01:07:21,644 --> 01:07:24,611 is that you're supposed to be displaying this sort of 1477 01:07:24,611 --> 01:07:27,427 natural masculinity but it takes a great deal of effort 1478 01:07:27,427 --> 01:07:29,528 to get it precisely right. 1479 01:07:29,528 --> 01:07:32,800 - [Narrator] Bob Davis experienced the era of 1480 01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:33,784 the Castro Clone firsthand. 1481 01:07:33,784 --> 01:07:35,726 - My first day in San Francisco, 1482 01:07:35,726 --> 01:07:37,848 we went to the opening of the gay softball league. 1483 01:07:37,848 --> 01:07:40,424 Gay men playing softball, playing sports. 1484 01:07:40,424 --> 01:07:41,886 Who knew? 1485 01:07:41,886 --> 01:07:44,206 I thought where in the hell am I? 1486 01:07:44,206 --> 01:07:45,390 Holy Lord! 1487 01:07:46,260 --> 01:07:47,928 You know, it was like halleluia. 1488 01:07:47,928 --> 01:07:51,224 It was the first generation of gay men who were living 1489 01:07:51,224 --> 01:07:54,460 open and out and free and they were basically 1490 01:07:54,460 --> 01:07:56,379 embracing their masculinity. 1491 01:07:57,486 --> 01:08:00,670 - [Narrator] However, the joy of this new-found expression 1492 01:08:00,670 --> 01:08:01,187 was short-lived. 1493 01:08:01,187 --> 01:08:03,183 The onset of AIDS took a devastating toll. 1494 01:08:03,183 --> 01:08:06,767 A new ideal of gay masculinity emerged, 1495 01:08:06,767 --> 01:08:08,904 centered around circuit dance parties 1496 01:08:08,904 --> 01:08:10,786 springing up around the country. 1497 01:08:10,786 --> 01:08:13,640 - Circuit culture is, in some ways, 1498 01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:16,385 a reaction against both the vulnerability represented 1499 01:08:16,385 --> 01:08:19,726 by HIV and AIDS and the Castro Clone look. 1500 01:08:19,726 --> 01:08:23,907 It's a much more explicitly ripped, heavily muscled, 1501 01:08:23,907 --> 01:08:27,343 less hair, more explicitly youthful. 1502 01:08:27,343 --> 01:08:30,126 - It was a reaction within the gay community. 1503 01:08:30,126 --> 01:08:32,223 They didn't want to be associated with AIDS. 1504 01:08:32,223 --> 01:08:33,646 Enough was enough. 1505 01:08:33,646 --> 01:08:36,547 What's a better metaphor for being pure and untouched 1506 01:08:36,547 --> 01:08:39,896 and undiseased than shaving your body and being pristine. 1507 01:08:39,896 --> 01:08:43,464 - [Narrator] But, the hirsute man was not gone for long. 1508 01:08:43,464 --> 01:08:45,704 Nowhere in the gay community are traditional masculine 1509 01:08:45,704 --> 01:08:49,784 traits more revered and celebrated than among the Bears. 1510 01:08:49,784 --> 01:08:52,568 The Bear movement began in the late 1980s. 1511 01:08:52,568 --> 01:08:54,666 - I think it was just big guys who weren't mainstream 1512 01:08:54,666 --> 01:08:56,968 When it all started back in the day. 1513 01:08:56,968 --> 01:08:59,379 So much is caught up into magazines and what the look is 1514 01:08:59,379 --> 01:09:01,928 supposed to be in the gay community and 1515 01:09:01,928 --> 01:09:03,811 how you're supposed to be and you know, 1516 01:09:03,811 --> 01:09:05,427 the reality of it is we all come in 1517 01:09:05,427 --> 01:09:06,707 different shapes and sizes. 1518 01:09:06,707 --> 01:09:08,270 We've just got to be proud of what we have and 1519 01:09:08,270 --> 01:09:09,507 where we are in our lives. 1520 01:09:09,507 --> 01:09:10,707 We all can't spend 16 hours a day in the gym 1521 01:09:10,707 --> 01:09:12,640 to be that perfect guy. 1522 01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:14,347 - I was Mr. San Francisco Bear in 2005. 1523 01:09:14,347 --> 01:09:18,251 If it weren't for Bears, I probably never would have 1524 01:09:18,251 --> 01:09:20,653 come out because I didn't fit into 1525 01:09:20,653 --> 01:09:22,231 gay society anywhere else. 1526 01:09:22,231 --> 01:09:23,751 Bears have always been about just inclusion. 1527 01:09:23,751 --> 01:09:25,508 Everyone just kind of hangs out and accepts everyone else. 1528 01:09:25,508 --> 01:09:27,335 - I love that song where beauty magazines 1529 01:09:27,335 --> 01:09:28,994 only make you feel ugly. 1530 01:09:28,994 --> 01:09:32,733 Beauty is like, masculine or just being who you are. 1531 01:09:32,733 --> 01:09:36,113 - [Narrator] Dozens of Bear events are held 1532 01:09:36,113 --> 01:09:37,911 around the world every year. 1533 01:09:37,911 --> 01:09:39,829 One of the biggest is Lazy Bear. 1534 01:09:39,829 --> 01:09:43,554 - The most masculine guys you ever see are pretty much here. 1535 01:09:43,554 --> 01:09:44,653 - Yeah. 1536 01:09:44,653 --> 01:09:46,871 - A bunch of us were walking through the Hard Rock Casino 1537 01:09:46,871 --> 01:09:48,151 and some guys were, 1538 01:09:48,151 --> 01:09:51,816 "What are you guys, a union or something?" 1539 01:09:51,816 --> 01:09:53,785 We look like a bunch of fucking plumbers or electricians 1540 01:09:53,785 --> 01:09:55,164 and that's fine. 1541 01:09:55,164 --> 01:09:56,702 You don't get beat up on the street, 1542 01:09:56,702 --> 01:09:58,344 and you get free beer. 1543 01:09:58,344 --> 01:09:59,704 It confuses people. 1544 01:09:59,704 --> 01:10:03,523 - [Narrator] Thousands of gay men trek every summer 1545 01:10:03,523 --> 01:10:06,424 to the forest town of Guerneville in Northern California 1546 01:10:06,424 --> 01:10:09,342 for a long weekend of drinking beer, dancing, 1547 01:10:09,342 --> 01:10:11,600 and just being with men. 1548 01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:12,744 - Everyone has a good time with the Bears because 1549 01:10:12,744 --> 01:10:16,344 they can be themselves and not have to put on the airs 1550 01:10:16,344 --> 01:10:17,843 or put their guard up. 1551 01:10:17,843 --> 01:10:19,784 - This is one of those parties where you don't have to come 1552 01:10:19,784 --> 01:10:21,582 and suck your gut in for the entire five days. 1553 01:10:21,582 --> 01:10:23,966 - The nature of the environment, 1554 01:10:23,966 --> 01:10:28,307 the fact that it's the mountains, the beautiful scenery, 1555 01:10:28,307 --> 01:10:30,946 it's cool, just all of that just puts you at ease 1556 01:10:30,946 --> 01:10:34,446 and so if you are at ease, you're more readily available 1557 01:10:34,446 --> 01:10:37,187 to make friends with as many people 1558 01:10:37,187 --> 01:10:38,910 as you can possibly make friends with. 1559 01:10:38,910 --> 01:10:41,406 - You express your friendship and your love for 1560 01:10:41,406 --> 01:10:44,906 your fellow men openly, it doesn't matter. 1561 01:10:48,209 --> 01:10:52,306 - There's something masculine about the whole kind of 1562 01:10:52,306 --> 01:10:54,306 hairy man kind of genre. 1563 01:10:56,242 --> 01:10:58,542 - I like muscles and hair and it's just like big 1564 01:10:58,542 --> 01:11:00,542 and masculine and butch. 1565 01:11:01,564 --> 01:11:03,820 I don't know why that is but it just is. 1566 01:11:03,820 --> 01:11:04,946 - I don't think it necessarily have to 1567 01:11:04,946 --> 01:11:07,863 have body hair to be a Bear. 1568 01:11:07,863 --> 01:11:09,542 I think it's more the whole masculine trappings, 1569 01:11:09,542 --> 01:11:12,546 the way they dress, like to drink beer, 1570 01:11:12,546 --> 01:11:15,506 and go out and have big meals. 1571 01:11:15,506 --> 01:11:18,162 - You go into the bars at the different Bear events, 1572 01:11:18,162 --> 01:11:22,764 you feel a machismo, a macho kind of feel to these guys 1573 01:11:22,764 --> 01:11:27,324 and you know, they may not be macho all the time, 1574 01:11:27,324 --> 01:11:30,963 but there's something about their masculinity, 1575 01:11:30,963 --> 01:11:34,524 there's something about them being together as a group 1576 01:11:34,524 --> 01:11:37,186 that really just makes it so powerful, 1577 01:11:37,186 --> 01:11:39,703 unlike any other group, I think, 1578 01:11:39,703 --> 01:11:42,660 any other culture in the world. 1579 01:11:42,660 --> 01:11:45,399 (upbeat pop rock music) 1580 01:11:50,407 --> 01:11:52,244 - [Narrator] As each gay man defines his ideal 1581 01:11:52,244 --> 01:11:54,146 of what it means to be a man, 1582 01:11:54,146 --> 01:11:55,846 the issue of masculinity lies at 1583 01:11:55,846 --> 01:11:57,884 a crossroads for the gay movement. 1584 01:11:57,884 --> 01:12:00,284 - The big push in sort of the relationship between 1585 01:12:00,284 --> 01:12:03,186 gay people and the majority culture in the last decade or so 1586 01:12:03,186 --> 01:12:04,769 has been let us in. 1587 01:12:05,847 --> 01:12:08,684 It's basically giving up the sort of 1588 01:12:08,684 --> 01:12:11,563 separate aspects of gay culture. 1589 01:12:11,563 --> 01:12:13,666 People of my generation, at least, 1590 01:12:13,666 --> 01:12:16,982 are not sure it's such a great bargain and are also dubious 1591 01:12:16,982 --> 01:12:20,705 as to whether or not the people who want that will 1592 01:12:20,705 --> 01:12:24,546 really find out that it's giving them what they want. 1593 01:12:24,546 --> 01:12:27,666 - Through marriage, through domestic partnership, 1594 01:12:27,666 --> 01:12:29,886 through adoption, it's much easier to assimilate 1595 01:12:29,886 --> 01:12:33,127 into heteronormativity if you're straight-acting. 1596 01:12:33,127 --> 01:12:36,487 - The other big thing is the unanswered question of whether 1597 01:12:36,487 --> 01:12:40,441 or not we as a community will solve the ways in which 1598 01:12:40,441 --> 01:12:43,961 we are stereotyped or oppressed by simply rejecting 1599 01:12:43,961 --> 01:12:47,207 gender diversity and embracing more normal 1600 01:12:47,207 --> 01:12:49,127 forms of masculinity. 1601 01:12:49,127 --> 01:12:50,951 I think over and over again, 1602 01:12:50,951 --> 01:12:54,263 we see that kind of pressure to be as normal, 1603 01:12:54,263 --> 01:12:57,378 whatever that means, as possible. 1604 01:12:57,378 --> 01:13:00,202 - Part of the process of becoming a gay male is 1605 01:13:00,202 --> 01:13:03,804 to unlearn some of the stereotypes that were imposed 1606 01:13:03,804 --> 01:13:07,923 upon us and to sort of relearn it so that we can be 1607 01:13:07,923 --> 01:13:10,444 masculine in a wide range of ways, 1608 01:13:10,444 --> 01:13:13,105 to incorporate some of the ways that we learned but 1609 01:13:13,105 --> 01:13:16,476 also to learn new ways, to be constantly changing 1610 01:13:16,476 --> 01:13:18,764 and evolving those as they occur. 1611 01:13:18,764 --> 01:13:20,503 - There's nothing to me more appealing than a man 1612 01:13:20,503 --> 01:13:22,866 that's so comfortable in his own skin that he can embrace 1613 01:13:22,866 --> 01:13:24,783 all parts of who he is. 1614 01:13:26,385 --> 01:13:29,443 - Every time that we try to assert that one kind of 1615 01:13:29,443 --> 01:13:32,226 gender expression is the most normal or the most important 1616 01:13:32,226 --> 01:13:36,567 for gay people, we push others to the side and so the key 1617 01:13:36,567 --> 01:13:40,184 is really, I think, for all of us to explore 1618 01:13:40,184 --> 01:13:44,343 what it means to be gay men in the entire range of 1619 01:13:44,343 --> 01:13:47,724 gender expressions that we have available to us and 1620 01:13:47,724 --> 01:13:50,300 to not obsess over trying to find out what 1621 01:13:50,300 --> 01:13:54,225 our real gender is but to allow for the possibility that 1622 01:13:54,225 --> 01:13:56,727 gender can change over time and it's flexible 1623 01:13:56,727 --> 01:13:59,324 and it's fluid and it's fun. 1624 01:13:59,324 --> 01:14:02,907 (high energy upbeat music) 125479

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