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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated:
1
00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000
Downloaded from
YTS.MX
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00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000
Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
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00:00:12,721 --> 00:00:15,765
(mysterious music playing)
4
00:00:16,933 --> 00:00:19,728
Jamie Dimon:
Every day, you know,
you have nonstop Bitcoin.
5
00:00:19,811 --> 00:00:21,730
Who cares about Bitcoin?
6
00:00:21,813 --> 00:00:22,897
(click)
7
00:00:22,981 --> 00:00:24,232
(cash register dings)
8
00:00:25,025 --> 00:00:26,943
I could care less
what Bitcoin trades for,
9
00:00:26,985 --> 00:00:29,320
how it trades, why it trades,
who trades it.
10
00:00:29,404 --> 00:00:30,447
If you're stupid enough to buy,
11
00:00:30,530 --> 00:00:32,323
you'll pay the price
for it one day.
12
00:00:32,741 --> 00:00:34,826
(clicking)
13
00:00:34,909 --> 00:00:37,037
YouTuber:
Bitcoin is a fucking scam.
14
00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:38,788
Donald Trump (on phone):
Bitcoin seems like a scam.
15
00:00:38,830 --> 00:00:41,750
-Magical internet money.
-It has no intrinsic value.
16
00:00:41,833 --> 00:00:43,460
(clicking)
17
00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,004
Dimon:
Bitcoin is worthless.
18
00:00:46,087 --> 00:00:48,757
-What makes it valuable?
-Totally BS.
19
00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:50,050
Bitcoin is a dead end.
20
00:00:52,218 --> 00:00:54,346
Brian Kelly:
Bitcoin's dead again!
21
00:00:54,429 --> 00:00:56,014
It's a combination of a bubble,
a Ponzi scheme,
22
00:00:56,097 --> 00:00:57,098
and an economic disaster.
23
00:00:57,182 --> 00:00:58,850
Whatever it's doing,
it's not money.
24
00:00:58,933 --> 00:01:01,644
Whatever Bitcoin is,
it is not money.
25
00:01:01,895 --> 00:01:04,314
-(clicking)
-(cash register dings)
26
00:01:04,356 --> 00:01:07,484
Bitcoin is simply gonna implode
before you know it.
27
00:01:07,567 --> 00:01:09,652
Today, we're having
a funeral for Bitcoin.
28
00:01:09,694 --> 00:01:12,322
Cullen Hoback: Despite all
the doomsday prophecies,
29
00:01:12,405 --> 00:01:15,283
just 15 years after launch,
Bitcoin had become
30
00:01:15,325 --> 00:01:17,786
the 10th most valuable asset
in the world,
31
00:01:17,827 --> 00:01:21,164
outperforming Wall Street
by a massive margin.
32
00:01:21,206 --> 00:01:23,291
One of the biggest
unanswered questions
33
00:01:23,333 --> 00:01:26,211
surrounding Bitcoin
is who invented it.
34
00:01:26,294 --> 00:01:27,796
Andy Court:
When you ask about the creator,
35
00:01:27,879 --> 00:01:29,506
who created this,
we have no idea.
36
00:01:29,547 --> 00:01:32,676
-There's these things
called nerds.
-(studio laughter)
37
00:01:32,717 --> 00:01:34,010
And in 2008,
38
00:01:34,052 --> 00:01:36,638
one of them made up Bitcoin
out of thin air,
39
00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,516
using the fake name
Satoshi Nakamoto.
40
00:01:39,599 --> 00:01:40,642
Satoshi Nakamoto.
41
00:01:40,725 --> 00:01:42,018
-Satoshi--
-Nakamoto.
42
00:01:42,060 --> 00:01:44,354
Which, I think,
are the Japanese words
43
00:01:44,396 --> 00:01:46,189
-for Monopoly money.
-(studio laughter)
44
00:01:46,231 --> 00:01:48,024
Hoback:
Satoshi Nakamoto,
45
00:01:48,108 --> 00:01:50,318
the inventor of said
Monopoly money,
46
00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,863
was now presumably one of
the richest people on Earth.
47
00:01:53,905 --> 00:01:56,199
speaker:
We are all Satoshi!
48
00:01:56,282 --> 00:01:58,201
(applause, cheering)
49
00:01:58,243 --> 00:02:01,663
Hoback:
This anonymous character had
developed quite a following.
50
00:02:01,705 --> 00:02:04,165
And if all these pundits
kept being wrong,
51
00:02:04,207 --> 00:02:06,251
and Bitcoin kept going up,
52
00:02:06,334 --> 00:02:08,044
then Satoshi could be worth
53
00:02:08,128 --> 00:02:10,088
more than
a trillion dollars.
54
00:02:10,171 --> 00:02:12,007
-With a "T."
-(cash register dings)
55
00:02:12,090 --> 00:02:13,258
And that's because
Satoshi controlled
56
00:02:13,341 --> 00:02:15,385
a shit-ton of Bitcoin.
57
00:02:15,468 --> 00:02:17,762
Enough to break the system.
58
00:02:17,846 --> 00:02:21,224
But, many years ago,
Satoshi had disappeared
59
00:02:21,266 --> 00:02:23,226
without spending any of it.
60
00:02:23,309 --> 00:02:24,394
What would happen
61
00:02:24,477 --> 00:02:26,896
if Satoshi just
reemerged one day
62
00:02:26,938 --> 00:02:28,231
to cash in?
63
00:02:28,273 --> 00:02:30,942
They'd be like
king of the world.
64
00:02:31,026 --> 00:02:32,277
Who is Satoshi Nakamoto?
65
00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,404
Who do you think
he really is?
66
00:02:34,446 --> 00:02:36,406
Hoback:
Simply put, Satoshi's identity
67
00:02:36,489 --> 00:02:38,033
has remained
the greatest mystery
68
00:02:38,116 --> 00:02:39,659
of the Internet Age.
69
00:02:39,743 --> 00:02:42,495
No one knows who they are,
even though a lot of people
70
00:02:42,579 --> 00:02:43,913
have tried to figure this out.
71
00:02:43,955 --> 00:02:46,624
YouTuber:
Tonight's plan?
To reveal the identity
72
00:02:46,708 --> 00:02:48,668
of Satoshi Nakamoto,
73
00:02:48,752 --> 00:02:51,129
creator of Bitcoin.
74
00:02:51,212 --> 00:02:53,631
Is he no longer here?
Is he amongst us?
75
00:02:53,715 --> 00:02:54,924
♪♪
76
00:02:54,966 --> 00:02:57,635
Hoback:
Well, someone probably knew.
77
00:02:57,719 --> 00:02:59,179
Like maybe this guy...
78
00:02:59,262 --> 00:03:01,473
It's too high risk
for Satoshi to come back.
79
00:03:01,556 --> 00:03:03,808
-(ding)
-Hoback: ...who you'll
get to know soon enough.
80
00:03:03,892 --> 00:03:05,602
It's way too high risk.
81
00:03:05,685 --> 00:03:07,187
What's risky about it?
82
00:03:07,270 --> 00:03:10,106
Well, you get
implicated as Satoshi.
83
00:03:10,148 --> 00:03:12,776
And then, every country
in the world
84
00:03:12,817 --> 00:03:14,361
is gonna wanna go after you.
85
00:03:14,444 --> 00:03:17,113
Or people are gonna go
after you to steal it.
86
00:03:17,155 --> 00:03:18,239
But, why does,
like, a murderer
87
00:03:18,281 --> 00:03:19,616
go back to
the scene of the crime?
88
00:03:19,908 --> 00:03:22,452
Satoshi's doing nothing
to pick up his stash.
89
00:03:22,494 --> 00:03:24,829
Hoback:
Yeah, just a million Bitcoin.
90
00:03:24,913 --> 00:03:26,790
And that's why he went
to such great lengths
91
00:03:26,831 --> 00:03:29,793
to conceal his identity.
92
00:03:29,876 --> 00:03:31,461
He thought of everything.
93
00:03:31,544 --> 00:03:34,339
Hoback:
Well, not everything.
94
00:03:34,506 --> 00:03:37,717
(dramatic music playing)
95
00:04:07,789 --> 00:04:10,083
-Cash.
-customer: That should be 1,000.
96
00:04:10,166 --> 00:04:11,793
Hoback:
How often do you pay with it?
97
00:04:11,835 --> 00:04:13,503
customer:
Such nice guns!
98
00:04:13,586 --> 00:04:16,506
Hoback:
You probably use your card
for just about everything.
99
00:04:16,548 --> 00:04:20,176
-Denied, denied... approved.
-(studio laughter)
100
00:04:20,260 --> 00:04:21,803
Hoback:
But the cool thing about cash,
101
00:04:21,845 --> 00:04:23,680
you hand over your money,
102
00:04:23,763 --> 00:04:25,682
you get a thing,
103
00:04:25,765 --> 00:04:28,643
and no bank, credit card
company, government agency,
104
00:04:28,685 --> 00:04:30,603
data broker,
social media advertiser
105
00:04:30,687 --> 00:04:33,440
gets to know
about your hobbies.
106
00:04:34,607 --> 00:04:36,192
But, it seemed like
we were maybe on our way
107
00:04:36,234 --> 00:04:38,570
to getting rid
of cash entirely.
108
00:04:38,653 --> 00:04:41,239
As the world transitions
into a cashless society...
109
00:04:41,322 --> 00:04:43,033
speaker:
"We've gone cashless."
110
00:04:43,116 --> 00:04:46,661
No one wants to
carry around cash anymore.
That's already-- Cash is gone.
111
00:04:46,703 --> 00:04:48,705
Hoback:
In fact, there are quite
a few things about the dollar
112
00:04:48,747 --> 00:04:51,374
that were just outdated
because these dudes
113
00:04:51,416 --> 00:04:53,585
-didn't have iPhones.
-(notification chimes)
114
00:04:53,668 --> 00:04:55,337
But, if you were
to start from scratch,
115
00:04:55,420 --> 00:04:58,048
how would you make cash
for the digital age?
116
00:04:59,758 --> 00:05:00,884
It was 2017
117
00:05:00,925 --> 00:05:03,845
when I really started
paying attention to Bitcoin.
118
00:05:03,928 --> 00:05:05,388
And as a filmmaker
119
00:05:05,430 --> 00:05:07,515
who was concerned
with online surveillance...
120
00:05:07,557 --> 00:05:08,850
Everything moved
into ones and zeros,
121
00:05:08,933 --> 00:05:10,769
and ones and zeros can be
tracked and traced.
122
00:05:10,852 --> 00:05:12,228
...the idea that Bitcoin
123
00:05:12,270 --> 00:05:15,565
was supposed to protect your
privacy was pretty appealing.
124
00:05:16,107 --> 00:05:18,109
It was trying to be money
for the internet.
125
00:05:18,193 --> 00:05:19,903
♪♪
126
00:05:19,944 --> 00:05:21,237
And it had a few features
127
00:05:21,321 --> 00:05:23,531
that the current
financial system just didn't.
128
00:05:23,573 --> 00:05:24,783
-(bell clanging)
-announcer: Fight!
129
00:05:24,949 --> 00:05:27,494
Hoback:
No single person or group
controlled it,
130
00:05:27,577 --> 00:05:29,621
it was basically impossible
to shut down,
131
00:05:29,704 --> 00:05:31,122
-it was scarce.
-(Pikachu panting)
132
00:05:31,206 --> 00:05:34,000
Anyone with an internet
connection could access it.
133
00:05:34,084 --> 00:05:36,252
-You are personally
responsible for it.
-(roars)
134
00:05:36,294 --> 00:05:38,088
And it was super secure
135
00:05:38,171 --> 00:05:40,006
unless you made a mistake.
136
00:05:40,548 --> 00:05:42,926
And it was distributed
through something called
137
00:05:43,009 --> 00:05:44,427
"Bitcoin mining,"
138
00:05:44,469 --> 00:05:46,054
which I tried.
139
00:05:46,805 --> 00:05:49,349
-Even if you don't usually
pay attention to Bitcoin...
-(rummaging)
140
00:05:49,432 --> 00:05:51,101
...you might have
still heard about it.
141
00:05:51,142 --> 00:05:54,145
Miners using powerful computers
142
00:05:54,229 --> 00:05:56,439
to guess a random
string of numbers
143
00:05:56,481 --> 00:05:58,900
and win a Bitcoin reward.
144
00:05:58,942 --> 00:06:01,277
Hoback:
It's how new Bitcoins
enter the system.
145
00:06:01,319 --> 00:06:02,737
This fancy computing rig,
146
00:06:02,779 --> 00:06:04,864
it's like a ticket
to the Bitcoin lottery.
147
00:06:04,948 --> 00:06:06,574
You said 1,600 Watts?
148
00:06:06,658 --> 00:06:09,035
It takes a lot of electricity.
149
00:06:09,119 --> 00:06:11,705
-(rustling)
-And if your mining rig is
the first in the entire world
150
00:06:11,788 --> 00:06:13,832
to find
the computational equivalent
151
00:06:13,915 --> 00:06:14,958
of a golden ticket...
152
00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,419
-I got it, Mr. Salt!
Here it is!
-(cheering)
153
00:06:17,460 --> 00:06:19,671
Hoback: ...you win some
freshly minted Bitcoin.
154
00:06:19,754 --> 00:06:21,631
That means that some people
are gonna lose a lot of money.
155
00:06:21,673 --> 00:06:23,091
-Probably.
-Oh yeah.
156
00:06:23,174 --> 00:06:25,552
Hoback:
And every 10 minutes,
you get another shot.
157
00:06:25,635 --> 00:06:27,178
It was the modern gold rush
158
00:06:27,262 --> 00:06:29,514
from the comfort
of your living room.
159
00:06:29,597 --> 00:06:31,933
-But, my miner wasn't so lucky.
-(fan whirring)
160
00:06:31,975 --> 00:06:34,394
So, instead of winning
a down payment for a house,
161
00:06:34,477 --> 00:06:37,480
I just ended up with
a large electricity bill.
162
00:06:37,564 --> 00:06:39,816
-(whirring stops)
-Eh, fuck.
163
00:06:39,858 --> 00:06:41,693
And the occasional
power outage.
164
00:06:41,776 --> 00:06:43,987
I don't think
this is gonna work. (laughs)
165
00:06:44,029 --> 00:06:46,823
Meaning I'd have to go
get my Bitcoin on an exchange,
166
00:06:46,865 --> 00:06:48,992
kinda like
how you buy stocks.
167
00:06:49,034 --> 00:06:49,993
And like stocks,
168
00:06:50,076 --> 00:06:51,995
people kinda hope
that this digital asset
169
00:06:52,037 --> 00:06:53,872
-is gonna make them rich.
-(cheering)
170
00:06:53,955 --> 00:06:56,833
Which, let's be honest,
was the real draw.
171
00:06:56,916 --> 00:06:58,710
(blasting music)
172
00:06:58,793 --> 00:07:00,837
It was fueled
by an online culture
173
00:07:00,879 --> 00:07:02,922
that was invested
in seeing Bitcoin win.
174
00:07:03,006 --> 00:07:06,301
You're supposed to buy the dip.
Buy Bitcoin.
175
00:07:06,384 --> 00:07:09,679
Hoback:
Designed to pull people away
from a financial system
176
00:07:09,763 --> 00:07:12,057
that seemed like it was stacked
against the average person.
177
00:07:12,140 --> 00:07:13,433
If you win all three rats,
178
00:07:13,516 --> 00:07:15,769
-and they come in one-two-three,
you win everything.
-Oh, my God.
179
00:07:15,852 --> 00:07:17,187
Drew Carey:
But, you have to win some rats.
180
00:07:17,228 --> 00:07:19,397
Hoback:
And Bitcoin provided
this glimmer of hope
181
00:07:19,481 --> 00:07:21,399
that you might get
out of the rat race.
182
00:07:21,483 --> 00:07:24,527
-Look at them go! Oh, man,
you're gonna have a car.
-(crowd cheering)
183
00:07:24,569 --> 00:07:25,820
(rats squeaking)
184
00:07:25,862 --> 00:07:28,656
Hoback:
Asking you to put
your faith in math
185
00:07:28,740 --> 00:07:30,033
instead of the government.
186
00:07:30,116 --> 00:07:31,993
-I don't know what I said, ah!
-We finally beat Medicare.
187
00:07:32,035 --> 00:07:34,704
Hoback:
So, maybe that's why in 2021,
188
00:07:34,746 --> 00:07:37,332
an entire country
adopted Bitcoin.
189
00:07:37,374 --> 00:07:39,334
Because the current
financial system
190
00:07:39,376 --> 00:07:41,503
was also stacked
against them.
191
00:07:42,045 --> 00:07:45,965
-(street chatter)
-(curious music playing)
192
00:07:46,591 --> 00:07:48,718
This is El Salvador,
a Latin American nation
193
00:07:48,802 --> 00:07:51,429
plagued with a history
of gang violence,
194
00:07:51,513 --> 00:07:53,723
corruption, and civil war.
195
00:07:53,807 --> 00:07:55,642
For more than 20 years,
they had resorted
196
00:07:55,725 --> 00:07:58,895
to using the US dollar
as their official currency,
197
00:07:58,937 --> 00:08:00,897
adding to why
the president's announcement
198
00:08:00,980 --> 00:08:02,482
sent shock waves
around the world.
199
00:08:02,565 --> 00:08:04,526
(crowd cheering)
200
00:08:04,567 --> 00:08:05,902
Nayib Bukele:
Where are the Bitcoiners?
201
00:08:06,319 --> 00:08:09,072
Hoback:
He planned to tie the
country's future to Bitcoin.
202
00:08:09,155 --> 00:08:11,574
For starters, they bought
a bunch of it using...
203
00:08:11,658 --> 00:08:14,244
reporter:
105 million taxpayer dollars.
204
00:08:14,327 --> 00:08:16,496
Hoback:
Then, the country began
accepting Bitcoin
205
00:08:16,579 --> 00:08:18,540
as legal tender.
206
00:08:18,623 --> 00:08:21,543
Suddenly, Bitcoin could be
used alongside the dollar
207
00:08:21,584 --> 00:08:24,087
to pay for things
like breakfast, real estate,
208
00:08:24,170 --> 00:08:26,006
or even taxes.
209
00:08:26,548 --> 00:08:28,341
At least, that was the idea.
210
00:08:28,425 --> 00:08:31,970
We announced that El Salvador
was making Bitcoin legal tender.
211
00:08:32,053 --> 00:08:34,681
(crowd cheering)
212
00:08:34,764 --> 00:08:36,891
We had some protests,
did you see those?
213
00:08:36,933 --> 00:08:39,310
They started with misinformation
to the people,
214
00:08:39,394 --> 00:08:40,562
telling them Bitcoin was bad,
215
00:08:40,645 --> 00:08:42,480
and, you know, you shouldn't
use that currency
216
00:08:42,564 --> 00:08:44,357
because it's invisible.
You cannot see it!
217
00:08:44,441 --> 00:08:46,776
-(laughter)
-Yeah, exactly.
218
00:08:46,860 --> 00:08:48,611
They are all full of bullshit.
219
00:08:48,653 --> 00:08:50,238
Hoback:
The president was betting
220
00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,949
that other countries
would want in on the game,
221
00:08:53,033 --> 00:08:56,244
would reject the hegemony
of the US dollar.
222
00:08:56,286 --> 00:08:57,495
Who was behind this effort?
223
00:08:57,996 --> 00:09:01,708
So, we talked with
my friend Samson. Where is he?
224
00:09:01,791 --> 00:09:03,585
-(cheering)
-Samson?
225
00:09:03,626 --> 00:09:05,962
So, this is going
to make El Salvador
226
00:09:06,046 --> 00:09:08,006
the financial center
of the world.
227
00:09:08,089 --> 00:09:12,218
This is the beginning of, uh,
nation-state Bitcoin FOMO.
228
00:09:12,302 --> 00:09:14,137
Do you guys like that?
229
00:09:14,179 --> 00:09:15,805
(crowd cheering)
230
00:09:15,847 --> 00:09:17,557
Hoback:
The guy on stage
with the president
231
00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:19,351
clearly had something
to do with it.
232
00:09:19,601 --> 00:09:21,144
So, I reached out.
233
00:09:21,186 --> 00:09:24,147
-Hello, we're going
on a helicopter.
-speaker: That's right. Hello.
234
00:09:24,189 --> 00:09:27,025
Hoback:
Samson worked for a company
that was trying to expand
235
00:09:27,108 --> 00:09:28,860
Bitcoin's reach
around the globe.
236
00:09:28,943 --> 00:09:30,695
He considered himself a kind of
237
00:09:30,779 --> 00:09:33,198
diplomatic ambassador
for Bitcoin.
238
00:09:33,656 --> 00:09:35,784
And the president
was treating him like one.
239
00:09:35,867 --> 00:09:38,787
-(helicopter whirring)
-Samson was busy
240
00:09:38,828 --> 00:09:40,580
trying to convince
Mexico's third richest man,
241
00:09:40,663 --> 00:09:43,124
known as Uncle Richi,
242
00:09:43,208 --> 00:09:44,626
to use his power plant
to mine Bitcoin.
243
00:09:44,709 --> 00:09:47,003
Because, you know,
244
00:09:47,087 --> 00:09:49,756
who wants to just
be third richest?
245
00:09:49,839 --> 00:09:52,258
(Ricardo Salinas
speaking English)
246
00:09:55,345 --> 00:09:56,888
(Samson Mow
speaking English)
247
00:09:58,306 --> 00:10:00,058
(Salinas speaking)
248
00:10:06,022 --> 00:10:08,900
Hoback: Like myself,
investors also had questions
249
00:10:08,983 --> 00:10:12,404
when it came to Satoshi,
Bitcoin's anonymous creator.
250
00:10:13,029 --> 00:10:17,033
It was the elephant in
the helicopter, so to speak.
251
00:10:27,293 --> 00:10:28,336
-They're gone.
-They're gone.
252
00:10:52,193 --> 00:10:53,236
Yep.
253
00:10:55,113 --> 00:10:56,948
Hoback:
Just before
the launch of Bitcoin,
254
00:10:57,032 --> 00:11:00,577
there was a digital currency
backed by actual gold,
255
00:11:00,660 --> 00:11:03,246
which was reportedly
processing $2 billion
256
00:11:03,329 --> 00:11:05,165
in transactions every year.
257
00:11:05,248 --> 00:11:07,083
E-gold is a currency
258
00:11:07,125 --> 00:11:09,252
that's currently
pretty popularized
259
00:11:09,336 --> 00:11:10,837
with a lot of online users.
260
00:11:11,087 --> 00:11:14,007
Hoback:
They promised that e-gold
would be here this year,
261
00:11:14,090 --> 00:11:16,676
next year,
1,000 years from now.
262
00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:18,178
But, it seems the US government
263
00:11:18,261 --> 00:11:20,638
didn't give a shit
what their website said.
264
00:11:20,722 --> 00:11:23,683
They arrested its creator
and shut it down.
265
00:11:23,767 --> 00:11:24,809
The takeaway?
266
00:11:25,018 --> 00:11:27,062
If you're going to create
a digital currency
267
00:11:27,145 --> 00:11:29,105
that will compete
with the US dollar,
268
00:11:29,147 --> 00:11:30,815
you might wanna be
really careful
269
00:11:30,899 --> 00:11:33,818
about letting people
know who you are.
270
00:11:33,902 --> 00:11:36,529
And because Satoshi disappeared
and never cashed out,
271
00:11:36,613 --> 00:11:39,616
I figured maybe their identity
should stay a secret.
272
00:11:39,657 --> 00:11:41,868
-(propeller plane whirring)
-After all,
273
00:11:41,951 --> 00:11:43,703
it's not like they had
some master plan for Bitcoin
274
00:11:43,787 --> 00:11:46,456
to replace the US dollar
and render them
275
00:11:46,539 --> 00:11:48,917
the richest person on Earth.
Right?
276
00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:50,293
(quirky music playing)
277
00:11:50,377 --> 00:11:52,587
Satoshi understood
the game theory of it all.
278
00:11:52,671 --> 00:11:55,465
If Bitcoin was successful,
279
00:11:56,508 --> 00:11:57,842
they'd go after him.
280
00:11:58,510 --> 00:12:00,720
(Hoback speaking)
281
00:12:05,100 --> 00:12:08,103
I don't think he would've
created this gift for the world
282
00:12:08,144 --> 00:12:11,106
just to keep it as
a threat over the future.
283
00:12:11,147 --> 00:12:14,734
He was more thinking
for the good of humanity.
284
00:12:14,818 --> 00:12:17,404
Money is very broken.
285
00:12:17,487 --> 00:12:21,157
It's just a house of cards built
on top of more houses of cards
286
00:12:21,241 --> 00:12:22,784
on more houses of cards.
287
00:12:22,867 --> 00:12:24,494
It's all gonna
come crashing down.
288
00:12:24,536 --> 00:12:28,707
And when it does, that's when
hyperbitcoinization kicks in.
289
00:12:28,790 --> 00:12:30,583
(Hoback speaking)
290
00:12:30,667 --> 00:12:32,502
Samson Mow:
Hyperbitcoinization is just,
291
00:12:32,544 --> 00:12:35,171
you can earn Bitcoin,
spend Bitcoin,
292
00:12:35,255 --> 00:12:39,384
save in Bitcoin,
and the dollar is irrelevant.
293
00:12:40,468 --> 00:12:41,970
Hoback:
There are a handful
of countries
294
00:12:42,053 --> 00:12:44,389
that had printed their way
into hyperinflation,
295
00:12:44,597 --> 00:12:48,184
where money becomes worth less
than the paper it's printed on.
296
00:12:48,268 --> 00:12:51,229
But, that could never happen
to the US dollar.
297
00:12:52,188 --> 00:12:53,606
Could it?
298
00:12:54,107 --> 00:12:55,900
-(tense music playing)
-(crowd chatter)
299
00:12:55,984 --> 00:12:57,777
reporter 1:
Lehman Brothers
is going bankrupt.
300
00:12:57,861 --> 00:12:59,696
reporter 2:
Customers are freaked out,
301
00:12:59,738 --> 00:13:01,364
waiting to see
how low the Dow will go.
302
00:13:01,448 --> 00:13:04,034
Hoback:
Back in 2008,
the world came really close
303
00:13:04,117 --> 00:13:06,536
to figuring out that
our entire economic system
304
00:13:06,619 --> 00:13:09,247
was held together with
chewing gum and duct tape.
305
00:13:09,330 --> 00:13:11,207
reporter:
The President's plan
would allow the Treasury
306
00:13:11,291 --> 00:13:15,128
to buy up to $700 billion
worth of bad loans.
307
00:13:15,211 --> 00:13:18,131
Hoback:
Trust in financial institutions
was hard to find.
308
00:13:18,214 --> 00:13:21,468
I know Americans are concerned
about the adjustments.
309
00:13:21,551 --> 00:13:24,012
-(shutter snapping)
-Hoback: The only business
that seemed to be booming
310
00:13:24,095 --> 00:13:27,557
involved taking pictures
of depressed stockbrokers.
311
00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,852
It was during this fiasco
that a mysterious programmer,
312
00:13:30,935 --> 00:13:33,605
calling themselves
Satoshi Nakamoto,
313
00:13:33,688 --> 00:13:35,106
conceived of Bitcoin,
314
00:13:35,190 --> 00:13:37,901
an electronic cash system.
315
00:13:37,942 --> 00:13:41,446
And it was all set in motion
on January 3, 2009...
316
00:13:42,989 --> 00:13:45,533
when the first
Bitcoin block was born.
317
00:13:45,617 --> 00:13:47,869
It's called the Genesis Block.
318
00:13:47,911 --> 00:13:51,414
And a new block is formed
about every 10 minutes,
319
00:13:51,498 --> 00:13:54,876
adding to the record of
all the Bitcoin transactions.
320
00:13:54,918 --> 00:13:56,836
It's called a blockchain.
321
00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,923
It's like an indestructible
mathematical safe,
322
00:14:00,006 --> 00:14:02,467
one that keeps track
of who owns what.
323
00:14:03,134 --> 00:14:05,595
And if you want to
unlock your Bitcoin,
324
00:14:05,637 --> 00:14:07,889
it'll require
your secret key,
325
00:14:07,931 --> 00:14:10,558
which is basically
just a fancy password.
326
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:14,229
Bitcoin now has hundreds
of thousands of blocks.
327
00:14:14,312 --> 00:14:18,024
But, in the Genesis Block,
Satoshi hid a message.
328
00:14:18,108 --> 00:14:21,152
"Chancellor on brink
of second bailout for banks."
329
00:14:21,695 --> 00:14:24,447
Referencing a headline that had
appeared in the London "Times"
330
00:14:24,531 --> 00:14:26,157
that same morning.
331
00:14:26,825 --> 00:14:28,326
It was a subtle
declaration of war
332
00:14:28,410 --> 00:14:30,286
against the world's
financial powers,
333
00:14:30,370 --> 00:14:32,956
which had just printed
more than a trillion dollars
334
00:14:33,039 --> 00:14:35,959
to satisfy the recklessness
of the big banks.
335
00:14:36,001 --> 00:14:37,669
In apparent opposition,
336
00:14:38,086 --> 00:14:40,714
Satoshi designed Bitcoin
with a limited supply.
337
00:14:41,339 --> 00:14:43,299
No one could just
print more of it.
338
00:14:43,383 --> 00:14:46,511
Only 21 million total
could ever be mined.
339
00:14:46,594 --> 00:14:49,848
It was programmed so that
the miners would receive
340
00:14:49,931 --> 00:14:51,808
less and less over time.
341
00:14:51,891 --> 00:14:53,309
Until 2140,
342
00:14:53,393 --> 00:14:56,604
when the digital mine
basically runs out,
343
00:14:56,688 --> 00:14:57,981
with Satoshi writing,
344
00:14:58,064 --> 00:15:00,859
"It's very attractive
to the libertarian viewpoint,
345
00:15:00,942 --> 00:15:02,485
"if we can explain it properly.
346
00:15:02,527 --> 00:15:05,530
I'm better with code
than with words though."
347
00:15:05,613 --> 00:15:07,782
You know, for Bitcoiners
who actually might know
348
00:15:07,866 --> 00:15:09,075
who Satoshi is, if they do,
349
00:15:09,159 --> 00:15:11,703
do you think that
they would keep that secret?
350
00:15:11,786 --> 00:15:13,705
(plane whirring)
351
00:15:13,788 --> 00:15:15,999
Well, I would keep the secret.
352
00:15:16,041 --> 00:15:18,168
Adam Back
would keep the secret.
353
00:15:18,209 --> 00:15:21,171
Hoback: Samson's boss
is a cryptographer
354
00:15:21,254 --> 00:15:24,799
named Adam Back
which jumped out at me
355
00:15:24,883 --> 00:15:26,092
because Adam Back
356
00:15:26,176 --> 00:15:28,803
has a pretty important
connection to Satoshi.
357
00:15:28,887 --> 00:15:31,222
He was believed to be
the first person
358
00:15:31,306 --> 00:15:33,641
Satoshi ever reached out to.
359
00:15:33,683 --> 00:15:36,811
People have pushed Adam
to release the Satoshi emails
360
00:15:36,895 --> 00:15:38,688
that Satoshi sent to him.
361
00:15:38,772 --> 00:15:41,232
But, Adam is
a very upstanding guy.
362
00:15:41,316 --> 00:15:44,361
His line of thinking is that
is a private conversation.
363
00:15:44,444 --> 00:15:46,112
So, he's never released
those emails.
364
00:15:46,196 --> 00:15:48,406
I've seen them, and, you know,
365
00:15:49,324 --> 00:15:50,408
they're real.
366
00:15:51,076 --> 00:15:53,703
Hoback:
Adam's company is
called Blockstream.
367
00:15:53,745 --> 00:15:56,414
They were largely behind
this effort in El Salvador.
368
00:15:56,498 --> 00:15:58,124
And now, they were looking
to help
369
00:15:58,208 --> 00:16:00,043
more countries adopt Bitcoin.
370
00:16:00,085 --> 00:16:01,920
Which brings Bitcoin closer
371
00:16:02,003 --> 00:16:04,172
to becoming
the new global standard.
372
00:16:04,214 --> 00:16:06,758
Which, in turn,
could make Satoshi
373
00:16:06,841 --> 00:16:09,135
the richest person on Earth.
374
00:16:09,219 --> 00:16:10,637
It might make you wonder
375
00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:12,597
if Satoshi had any
relationship to Blockstream,
376
00:16:13,390 --> 00:16:16,184
assuming Satoshi
was still alive.
377
00:16:16,559 --> 00:16:20,188
So, I asked Samson if he could
connect me with Adam Back.
378
00:16:20,230 --> 00:16:23,149
-Adam, is your mic on?
Can you hear me?
-Just wait a minute...
379
00:16:23,233 --> 00:16:24,776
Okay, should be good.
380
00:16:25,777 --> 00:16:27,987
(over video call)
I had, you know,
a brief interaction,
381
00:16:28,071 --> 00:16:31,241
email interaction,
with Satoshi in 2008.
382
00:16:31,324 --> 00:16:33,410
And-And, like, what happened?
We don't know.
383
00:16:33,451 --> 00:16:35,912
I mean, is he alive or not?
I don't know. Um...
384
00:16:36,371 --> 00:16:37,914
Did he just choose
a different pseudonym?
385
00:16:37,956 --> 00:16:39,249
Is he-- he still active?
386
00:16:39,332 --> 00:16:40,667
We don't know that either,
I'd say.
387
00:16:40,750 --> 00:16:44,421
Satoshi's wallet,
there's this huge sort of chest
388
00:16:44,504 --> 00:16:45,463
that hasn't been tapped.
389
00:16:45,547 --> 00:16:47,674
It seems almost like a,
you know, a Bible story,
390
00:16:47,757 --> 00:16:49,300
where nobody really knows
quite what happened
391
00:16:49,384 --> 00:16:50,802
because it was
so many years ago.
392
00:16:51,344 --> 00:16:54,305
It's hard to be definitive,
I guess is my point. (laughs)
393
00:16:55,098 --> 00:16:57,183
Hoback (over video call):
So, Adam, are you
planning any trips
394
00:16:57,267 --> 00:16:58,768
to El Salvador anytime soon?
395
00:16:58,852 --> 00:17:01,187
Adam Back:
I haven't really been
traveling that much lately.
396
00:17:01,271 --> 00:17:03,106
Usually in Malta, actually.
397
00:17:03,189 --> 00:17:06,818
We should start with just
an interview with you in Malta.
398
00:17:06,901 --> 00:17:08,153
Um...
399
00:17:09,446 --> 00:17:12,282
If that sounds...
if that sounds good to you.
400
00:17:13,324 --> 00:17:14,659
Okay.
401
00:17:15,410 --> 00:17:17,454
♪♪
402
00:17:17,537 --> 00:17:19,164
Hoback:
When Adam moved to Malta,
403
00:17:19,247 --> 00:17:21,249
Bitcoin was just
getting started.
404
00:17:21,291 --> 00:17:22,584
It had no value yet.
405
00:17:22,667 --> 00:17:24,961
So, perhaps it's just
a coincidence
406
00:17:25,003 --> 00:17:27,797
that Malta is considered
a tax haven.
407
00:17:28,798 --> 00:17:30,508
So, how'd you end up in Malta?
408
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,261
Adam Back:
Um, so, in 2009,
409
00:17:33,303 --> 00:17:35,180
I was working for a startup.
410
00:17:35,263 --> 00:17:37,098
I was thinking
as a remote worker,
411
00:17:37,140 --> 00:17:38,308
I would try
something adventurous,
412
00:17:38,391 --> 00:17:40,435
find somewhere
interesting to live.
413
00:17:41,019 --> 00:17:43,646
Hoback:
The cryptography behind Bitcoin
414
00:17:43,688 --> 00:17:45,482
is what makes it secure.
415
00:17:45,565 --> 00:17:47,776
It's the "crypto"
in cryptocurrency.
416
00:17:47,817 --> 00:17:51,154
And cryptographers,
they're like the math wizards
417
00:17:51,237 --> 00:17:54,157
who are skilled
at making digital locks.
418
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:55,658
And to create Bitcoin,
419
00:17:55,700 --> 00:17:57,827
Satoshi referenced ideas
from a few of them.
420
00:17:57,911 --> 00:18:00,914
In particular, something
that Adam Back had invented,
421
00:18:00,997 --> 00:18:02,290
called Hashcash.
422
00:18:02,582 --> 00:18:06,336
And he dreamed this up 12 years
before the creation of Bitcoin.
423
00:18:06,961 --> 00:18:10,590
Were you the first person
that Satoshi reached out to?
424
00:18:10,674 --> 00:18:11,758
I believe so, yeah.
425
00:18:11,841 --> 00:18:13,510
He just sent an email, um,
426
00:18:13,551 --> 00:18:16,054
saying that he's about
to publish, um, a paper...
427
00:18:16,513 --> 00:18:19,849
Hoback:
What would become Satoshi's
famous white paper.
428
00:18:20,392 --> 00:18:24,229
...and wants to know the
correct way to cite Hashcash.
429
00:18:26,856 --> 00:18:30,568
Did you ever release the emails
that you had with Satoshi?
430
00:18:31,611 --> 00:18:34,155
-No.
-Was that to protect privacy
431
00:18:34,239 --> 00:18:36,074
'cause they were private emails
or what was the reason?
432
00:18:36,157 --> 00:18:37,492
Yeah, kind of convention--
433
00:18:37,534 --> 00:18:40,537
I mean, convention,
so-called "netiquette,"
434
00:18:40,578 --> 00:18:42,914
which was a popular term
back then, was that
435
00:18:42,997 --> 00:18:45,458
you would not post somebody's
emails without permission.
436
00:18:45,542 --> 00:18:47,377
Like, nobody knows how to
reach this guy at this point,
437
00:18:47,419 --> 00:18:48,837
so I can't ask, you know?
438
00:18:48,962 --> 00:18:51,214
Hoback:
But, we can look into
the group of people
439
00:18:51,297 --> 00:18:54,718
Satoshi relied on
for inspiration and support.
440
00:18:54,801 --> 00:18:56,553
Namely, the cypherpunks.
441
00:18:56,636 --> 00:18:59,097
-(modem dialing up)
-(dramatic music playing)
442
00:18:59,514 --> 00:19:01,516
Back in the day,
there was a lot of hope
443
00:19:01,558 --> 00:19:03,268
that this thing called
the internet
444
00:19:03,351 --> 00:19:05,937
was going to usher
in an era of newfound freedom.
445
00:19:06,021 --> 00:19:08,898
BBC speaker:
Imagine a world
where every word ever written
446
00:19:08,940 --> 00:19:10,942
could be viewed
instantly in your home
447
00:19:11,026 --> 00:19:13,153
via an information superhighway.
448
00:19:13,236 --> 00:19:15,405
Hoback:
But, only a few predicted
449
00:19:15,488 --> 00:19:18,033
the surveillance hellscape
that lay ahead.
450
00:19:18,116 --> 00:19:21,244
And they could be found on
the Cypherpunk Mailing List.
451
00:19:21,286 --> 00:19:24,539
Every cryptographer
worth their salt was on it.
452
00:19:24,581 --> 00:19:26,458
Cypherpunks are
cryptography activists
453
00:19:26,541 --> 00:19:29,210
who believe in personal
privacy for everybody.
454
00:19:29,252 --> 00:19:31,504
Hoback:
Which meant in a digital world,
455
00:19:31,588 --> 00:19:34,382
you would need some way
to secure your communications.
456
00:19:34,424 --> 00:19:36,551
In the physical world, you had
a good degree of privacy.
457
00:19:36,593 --> 00:19:38,261
In the online realm,
in principle,
458
00:19:38,345 --> 00:19:39,596
you should enjoy
the same rights.
459
00:19:39,637 --> 00:19:41,348
I mean, why should you lose
your rights just because
460
00:19:41,431 --> 00:19:43,266
you're using a different
communication mechanism?
461
00:19:44,059 --> 00:19:47,395
Hoback:
But, the military,
and three-letter agencies,
462
00:19:47,437 --> 00:19:50,190
viewed cryptography
as a tool of war.
463
00:19:50,273 --> 00:19:52,025
And they didn't want
unbreakable security
464
00:19:52,108 --> 00:19:53,068
in the hands of the masses.
465
00:19:53,109 --> 00:19:54,986
The unrestrained
public discussion
466
00:19:55,070 --> 00:19:56,488
of cryptographic research
467
00:19:56,571 --> 00:19:58,156
threatened our
national security.
468
00:19:58,239 --> 00:19:59,449
Hoback:
The cypherpunks waged
469
00:19:59,532 --> 00:20:01,785
a massive battle
against the US government.
470
00:20:01,826 --> 00:20:04,079
Back:
I was sitting around
at university and thinking,
471
00:20:04,162 --> 00:20:06,081
man, this is,
this is so ridiculous.
472
00:20:06,122 --> 00:20:08,625
-Hoback: So, Adam,
being part punk...
-(electric guitar sting)
473
00:20:08,708 --> 00:20:11,628
...created an easily wearable
bit of illicit code.
474
00:20:11,670 --> 00:20:14,297
It was just a method
of encryption.
475
00:20:14,381 --> 00:20:16,257
Wear the shirt
while crossing a border,
476
00:20:16,299 --> 00:20:18,009
and it could be considered
weapons trafficking.
477
00:20:18,093 --> 00:20:20,303
-(buzzing)
-Back: A few people
had tattoos with it on
478
00:20:20,345 --> 00:20:22,472
to, like, you know,
to make the argument that,
479
00:20:22,555 --> 00:20:24,140
"Well, can I,
can I leave the country now?
480
00:20:24,224 --> 00:20:26,184
I've got this on my arm,"
kind of thing.
481
00:20:26,518 --> 00:20:28,978
Hoback:
And if you've ever used
a secure messaging app,
482
00:20:29,813 --> 00:20:32,941
well, you have Adam and his
cypherpunk buddies to thank
483
00:20:33,024 --> 00:20:34,317
because they won.
484
00:20:34,401 --> 00:20:36,695
Except one key thing
evaded them.
485
00:20:36,778 --> 00:20:38,988
Back:
Permissionless electronic cash
for the internet.
486
00:20:39,072 --> 00:20:41,157
Hey, this could actually
change the world for the better.
487
00:20:41,199 --> 00:20:42,826
Hoback:
They understood
that in a future
488
00:20:42,909 --> 00:20:45,120
where everything would be
tracked and traced,
489
00:20:45,203 --> 00:20:47,664
you needed untraceable
digital cash.
490
00:20:47,747 --> 00:20:50,041
The holy grail was to find
a solution to this problem.
491
00:20:50,125 --> 00:20:51,209
Hoback:
And we're not talking about
492
00:20:51,292 --> 00:20:53,169
a digital representation
of money
493
00:20:53,253 --> 00:20:54,629
like when you use
a bank or credit card.
494
00:20:54,671 --> 00:20:57,090
-(buzzing)
-We're talking
entirely decentralized,
495
00:20:57,173 --> 00:20:59,676
-totally secure,
fully autonomous currencies
-(whooshing)
496
00:20:59,759 --> 00:21:03,471
spread across the globe that no
one could control or shut down.
497
00:21:03,513 --> 00:21:05,640
It all needed to work without
putting trust in a bank,
498
00:21:05,682 --> 00:21:07,851
a government,
or some big corporation.
499
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,896
I want to tell you
how PayPal stole my money
500
00:21:11,980 --> 00:21:13,314
and my girlfriend.
501
00:21:13,815 --> 00:21:16,359
Hoback:
Over the years,
a few key cypherpunks
502
00:21:16,443 --> 00:21:18,903
took stabs at trying
to make this work.
503
00:21:19,362 --> 00:21:21,072
It was deemed impossible.
504
00:21:21,156 --> 00:21:24,993
But then, somehow, Satoshi
showed up and figured it out.
505
00:21:25,035 --> 00:21:26,870
Back:
You know, you talk to
a lot of technical people,
506
00:21:26,953 --> 00:21:30,081
and they will say of Bitcoin,
"I could have done that."
507
00:21:30,623 --> 00:21:33,626
I say it's actually much harder
than it looks. (laughs)
508
00:21:33,710 --> 00:21:35,211
I'm just trying to imagine,
like,
509
00:21:35,253 --> 00:21:37,130
who would've been
working around the clock
510
00:21:37,213 --> 00:21:39,049
to introduce something
like Bitcoin...?
511
00:21:39,132 --> 00:21:41,343
So, it could be somebody that
was on the cypherpunks list
512
00:21:41,384 --> 00:21:43,136
that nobody knew
the real name of.
513
00:21:43,219 --> 00:21:45,347
Or it could be somebody younger.
514
00:21:45,388 --> 00:21:49,225
-(plucky music playing)
-(foreboding rumble)
515
00:21:49,809 --> 00:21:51,478
Rachel-Rose O'Leary:
I think the question,
516
00:21:51,561 --> 00:21:53,438
"Who was Satoshi?"
always kind of creeps in.
517
00:21:53,521 --> 00:21:55,565
It's hard to avoid
that question.
518
00:21:55,607 --> 00:21:57,776
But, I've been told
it was a secret
519
00:21:57,859 --> 00:22:01,363
which was known,
but that was closely guarded.
520
00:22:01,404 --> 00:22:02,864
That there were
people in Bitcoin
521
00:22:02,906 --> 00:22:04,741
who knew who Satoshi is,
522
00:22:04,783 --> 00:22:06,451
but that they
wouldn't reveal it.
523
00:22:06,534 --> 00:22:10,330
Um, and that maybe Satoshi
was a group of people
524
00:22:10,413 --> 00:22:11,998
that is, like, still active
in Bitcoin today.
525
00:22:12,082 --> 00:22:15,418
Hoback:
Rachel-Rose was
a journalist for CoinDesk.
526
00:22:15,460 --> 00:22:17,212
It's one of the most
popular media outlets
527
00:22:17,295 --> 00:22:19,422
covering the whole
crypto space.
528
00:22:19,506 --> 00:22:21,132
Since leaving CoinDesk,
529
00:22:21,216 --> 00:22:22,884
she'd become
a crypto-anarchist,
530
00:22:22,926 --> 00:22:26,471
-which is about using
subversive technology...
-(laughs)
531
00:22:26,554 --> 00:22:27,931
...to dodge government control.
532
00:22:27,972 --> 00:22:29,766
O'Leary: I was hoping
you might have the time
533
00:22:29,808 --> 00:22:31,559
to interview Amir
while you're here.
534
00:22:31,601 --> 00:22:33,603
He's, uh, one of
the first five developers
535
00:22:33,645 --> 00:22:35,605
to talk with Satoshi.
536
00:22:35,689 --> 00:22:37,899
-Hoback: Where is he
in Switzerland?
-He's downstairs.
537
00:22:37,941 --> 00:22:39,859
-Hoback: Oh, he's here?
Oh, he lives with you!
-(laughing)
538
00:22:39,943 --> 00:22:42,320
Who just happened
to be her boyfriend.
539
00:22:42,404 --> 00:22:43,488
Good to meet you.
540
00:22:43,780 --> 00:22:47,534
Amir Taaki is a British-Iranian
anarchist revolutionary
541
00:22:47,617 --> 00:22:49,411
and one of
the earliest programmers
542
00:22:49,452 --> 00:22:52,831
who worked on Bitcoin
after Satoshi handed it off.
543
00:22:52,914 --> 00:22:54,332
(speaking English)
544
00:22:54,416 --> 00:22:55,959
Hoback:
In terms of the "Fuck the man,
545
00:22:56,042 --> 00:22:58,503
burn down the system"
roots of Bitcoin,
546
00:22:58,586 --> 00:23:01,548
this guy is about
as real as it gets.
547
00:23:01,631 --> 00:23:03,091
Should I call it...
548
00:23:03,174 --> 00:23:04,884
Drug Market Ultra
549
00:23:04,968 --> 00:23:06,928
or Death Market Revive?
550
00:23:07,303 --> 00:23:08,638
These days, the Bitcoiners,
551
00:23:08,722 --> 00:23:10,682
they don't really talk
about me anymore.
552
00:23:10,765 --> 00:23:13,143
I'm no longer "in"
with the Bitcoin crowd.
553
00:23:13,184 --> 00:23:15,311
But, part of it is because,
554
00:23:15,353 --> 00:23:17,147
uh, I went to fight in Syria.
555
00:23:17,230 --> 00:23:18,773
(ominous music playing)
556
00:23:18,815 --> 00:23:21,693
And I was like-- I was out
of crypto for two years.
557
00:23:22,527 --> 00:23:25,321
There's a few photos of him
with Kalashnikov,
558
00:23:25,405 --> 00:23:28,033
and it's like, "Bitcoiner
Fights ISIS in Syria."
559
00:23:28,825 --> 00:23:30,118
Amir Taaki:
It was more like three years,
560
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,038
because I was under house arrest
for one year as well.
561
00:23:33,121 --> 00:23:34,372
Hoback:
Oh wow. For what?
562
00:23:34,456 --> 00:23:36,708
Investigation of terrorism.
563
00:23:37,500 --> 00:23:40,503
Hoback:
How did you get
involved with Bitcoin?
564
00:23:40,545 --> 00:23:44,174
I remember when I first
got into Bitcoin in 2010.
565
00:23:44,215 --> 00:23:45,508
(dramatic music playing)
566
00:23:45,550 --> 00:23:47,344
I started to, like,
delve a bit deeper,
567
00:23:47,427 --> 00:23:49,346
started to look at the code.
568
00:23:49,429 --> 00:23:51,598
The code itself was very bad,
569
00:23:51,681 --> 00:23:54,434
didn't seem like the guy
who had wrote it
570
00:23:54,517 --> 00:23:56,728
was a professional developer.
571
00:23:57,312 --> 00:24:00,273
But, it wasn't nothing either.
572
00:24:00,357 --> 00:24:02,525
Conceptually, it was,
it was a leap.
573
00:24:02,609 --> 00:24:04,277
It was interesting.
574
00:24:04,361 --> 00:24:05,653
Hoback: Was Satoshi
communicating with you
575
00:24:05,737 --> 00:24:07,947
in the early days at all?
576
00:24:08,031 --> 00:24:09,407
Just on the forums.
577
00:24:09,783 --> 00:24:11,868
Hoback:
Satoshi created
the Bitcoin Talk forum,
578
00:24:11,951 --> 00:24:14,621
where early enthusiasts
could interact with Satoshi
579
00:24:14,704 --> 00:24:17,040
who wrote 575 total posts.
580
00:24:17,123 --> 00:24:20,919
-(mouse wheel scrolling)
-Their posts usually had
a kind of bland academic style.
581
00:24:21,002 --> 00:24:23,171
Unless something
got under Satoshi's skin.
582
00:24:24,089 --> 00:24:25,882
Which Amir succeeded at.
583
00:24:25,965 --> 00:24:29,844
Taaki:
When I posted
about WikiLeaks...
584
00:24:29,928 --> 00:24:31,888
Hoback:
WikiLeaks, an online collective
585
00:24:31,930 --> 00:24:33,723
known for publishing
state secrets,
586
00:24:33,807 --> 00:24:36,059
had become the target
of the state.
587
00:24:36,142 --> 00:24:39,062
The US government pressured
Visa, MasterCard,
588
00:24:39,145 --> 00:24:41,147
PayPal to block all donations
589
00:24:41,231 --> 00:24:42,941
and freeze their funds.
590
00:24:43,024 --> 00:24:46,778
So, Amir suggested they start
accepting donations in Bitcoin.
591
00:24:47,153 --> 00:24:49,114
"PC World" picked up the story.
592
00:24:49,197 --> 00:24:52,742
Satoshi was afraid this
rapid adoption by WikiLeaks
593
00:24:52,784 --> 00:24:54,744
would attract
the wrong kind of attention
594
00:24:54,786 --> 00:24:56,746
from three-letter agencies.
595
00:24:56,830 --> 00:24:58,248
One of my favorite quotes,
596
00:24:58,665 --> 00:25:01,001
"WikiLeaks has kicked
the hornet's nest,
597
00:25:01,084 --> 00:25:03,712
and the swarm
is headed towards us."
598
00:25:03,753 --> 00:25:06,798
That's one theory
for Satoshi's departure.
599
00:25:07,549 --> 00:25:08,883
Hoback:
The very next day,
600
00:25:08,925 --> 00:25:12,178
that's when Satoshi made
their last post on the forum.
601
00:25:14,264 --> 00:25:17,434
But, Satoshi quietly
continued communication
602
00:25:17,517 --> 00:25:19,019
with a select few people,
603
00:25:19,102 --> 00:25:21,896
primarily with a guy
named Gavin Andresen,
604
00:25:21,980 --> 00:25:24,357
who had been an early
contributor to Bitcoin.
605
00:25:24,441 --> 00:25:25,775
I was kind of looking around
606
00:25:25,859 --> 00:25:28,528
for an interesting
open source software project
607
00:25:28,611 --> 00:25:31,364
to contribute to
and stumbled across Bitcoin,
608
00:25:31,448 --> 00:25:32,991
and then got sucked in.
609
00:25:33,074 --> 00:25:35,118
Satoshi, when he left,
610
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,037
he distributed control
611
00:25:37,120 --> 00:25:39,456
amongst different people
in the community.
612
00:25:39,539 --> 00:25:40,749
Hoback:
Now, Gavin represented
613
00:25:40,790 --> 00:25:43,126
a very different type
of Bitcoiner than Amir.
614
00:25:43,209 --> 00:25:46,713
He wanted to work
with the state, not against it.
615
00:25:46,796 --> 00:25:49,049
He's a normie.
Like a boomer-normie.
616
00:25:49,132 --> 00:25:52,969
Hoback:
But, normalizing Bitcoin
appeared to be Satoshi's goal.
617
00:25:53,011 --> 00:25:56,014
And Gavin looked like he was
from an L.L.Bean catalog.
618
00:25:56,097 --> 00:25:57,974
Every time I tried
to make a change to Bitcoin,
619
00:25:58,058 --> 00:26:00,810
he tried to reject it.
I was like, dude, fuck off!
620
00:26:00,852 --> 00:26:02,270
Hoback:
On the Bitcoin website,
621
00:26:02,312 --> 00:26:05,690
Satoshi even replaced
their own email with Gavin's,
622
00:26:05,774 --> 00:26:08,276
seemingly rendering him
the spokesperson.
623
00:26:08,318 --> 00:26:11,905
So, I-I took over from
the mysterious Satoshi Nakamoto.
624
00:26:11,988 --> 00:26:14,616
Hoback:
But, Satoshi became annoyed
with Gavin's PR efforts
625
00:26:14,699 --> 00:26:16,159
rather quickly, writing,
626
00:26:16,242 --> 00:26:17,994
"I wish you wouldn't
keep talking about me
627
00:26:18,078 --> 00:26:20,163
"as a mysterious
shadowy figure.
628
00:26:20,205 --> 00:26:23,500
The press just turns that
into a pirate currency angle."
629
00:26:23,583 --> 00:26:27,003
Then, Gavin did something that
mortified early Bitcoiners,
630
00:26:27,087 --> 00:26:29,839
prompting Satoshi
to permanently cut ties.
631
00:26:29,923 --> 00:26:33,134
My last email to him was
telling him that I had
632
00:26:33,218 --> 00:26:36,054
agreed to go visit
the folks at the CIA.
633
00:26:36,137 --> 00:26:37,347
♪♪
634
00:26:37,430 --> 00:26:39,015
Taaki:
Gavin Andresen announced
635
00:26:39,057 --> 00:26:43,019
that he was visiting the CIA
to present Bitcoin.
636
00:26:43,061 --> 00:26:45,522
Everybody was
absolutely shocked.
637
00:26:45,605 --> 00:26:47,857
Like, dude,
what are you doing?
638
00:26:48,316 --> 00:26:50,318
And after that,
Satoshi just disappeared.
639
00:26:50,360 --> 00:26:52,445
Nobody heard from him again.
640
00:26:52,529 --> 00:26:53,988
Hoback:
Which was good timing
641
00:26:54,030 --> 00:26:58,243
because Bitcoin was about to
find its first real-use case:
642
00:26:58,785 --> 00:27:00,578
buying drugs.
643
00:27:01,246 --> 00:27:03,498
YouTuber:
Something special
came in the mail
644
00:27:03,581 --> 00:27:05,375
just today from Silk Road.
645
00:27:05,417 --> 00:27:08,670
reporter:
Imagine logging on to
an Amazon-like marketplace,
646
00:27:08,753 --> 00:27:10,880
only instead of
household items and shoes,
647
00:27:10,922 --> 00:27:12,215
you can buy heroin, meth,
648
00:27:12,298 --> 00:27:14,843
and pretty much any other drug
you can think of.
649
00:27:14,926 --> 00:27:16,928
"Many thanks and much love."
650
00:27:17,012 --> 00:27:19,431
Yeah, I'm pretty sure
there are some, uh,
651
00:27:19,514 --> 00:27:21,641
people interested in drugs,
let's say,
652
00:27:21,725 --> 00:27:23,476
who ended up
being relatively wealthy.
653
00:27:23,935 --> 00:27:26,730
Hoback:
While this sent
Bitcoin's value skyrocketing,
654
00:27:26,771 --> 00:27:29,065
its reputation
was easy pickings.
655
00:27:29,149 --> 00:27:30,859
It's untraceable,
and that makes me think
656
00:27:30,900 --> 00:27:33,653
that the real purpose of
Bitcoin is to use it for drugs
657
00:27:33,737 --> 00:27:36,322
or to buy weapons illegally.
658
00:27:36,406 --> 00:27:39,659
Hoback:
Although anarchists like Amir
were loving it,
659
00:27:39,743 --> 00:27:41,995
the emerging generation
of corporate Bitcoiners
660
00:27:42,078 --> 00:27:45,915
wanted to improve its image,
give Bitcoin a friendlier face.
661
00:27:46,041 --> 00:27:48,251
reporter:
Bitcoin Jesus himself
joins us on the phone.
662
00:27:48,293 --> 00:27:50,587
-Roger, great to have you back.
-Roger Ver (on phone):
Hello, everyone.
663
00:27:50,628 --> 00:27:51,671
Thank you for having me again.
664
00:27:51,963 --> 00:27:54,299
Hoback: Roger Ver
put millions of dollars
665
00:27:54,382 --> 00:27:56,760
into some of
the first Bitcoin startups,
666
00:27:56,843 --> 00:27:59,304
eventually rendering him
a billionaire.
667
00:27:59,387 --> 00:28:02,265
But, when Roger first heard
about Bitcoin,
668
00:28:02,349 --> 00:28:03,808
he had what's best described
669
00:28:03,892 --> 00:28:06,936
as a near-religious
experience.
670
00:28:07,020 --> 00:28:09,022
Got so excited about Bitcoin
and didn't sleep for a week
671
00:28:09,105 --> 00:28:10,648
and literally had to be
taken to the hospital,
672
00:28:10,732 --> 00:28:11,858
and they gave me a sedative.
673
00:28:11,941 --> 00:28:14,402
Anybody here
that's sick of the government
674
00:28:14,486 --> 00:28:15,737
inflating the money supply
675
00:28:15,779 --> 00:28:17,822
to pay to kill people
all around the world?
676
00:28:17,906 --> 00:28:19,199
Stop using their money!
677
00:28:19,282 --> 00:28:20,909
This was like a dream
come true for me.
678
00:28:20,992 --> 00:28:23,119
The-The thing I've been waiting
almost my entire life
679
00:28:23,161 --> 00:28:24,537
finally arrived,
and so, of course,
680
00:28:24,621 --> 00:28:26,331
I was gonna be busy
promoting that.
681
00:28:26,414 --> 00:28:29,000
Hoback:
Like a prophet,
Roger spread Bitcoin
682
00:28:29,084 --> 00:28:31,544
to anyone he met,
earning him the title
683
00:28:31,628 --> 00:28:33,672
of Bitcoin Jesus.
684
00:28:33,755 --> 00:28:37,008
(speaking Japanese)
685
00:28:39,803 --> 00:28:41,346
I think the world
would just plain work better
686
00:28:41,429 --> 00:28:44,474
and be better for everybody
if there wasn't a ruling class
687
00:28:44,557 --> 00:28:46,601
called the government. Uh...
688
00:28:46,685 --> 00:28:48,061
But, I don't want chaos.
I want order
689
00:28:48,144 --> 00:28:50,063
and things to work smoothly and
people to deal with each other
690
00:28:50,146 --> 00:28:52,565
on a voluntary basis to make
the world a more orderly,
691
00:28:52,649 --> 00:28:54,109
prosperous place for everybody.
692
00:28:58,822 --> 00:29:02,283
(speaking English)
693
00:29:07,497 --> 00:29:10,542
(dramatic music playing)
694
00:29:11,584 --> 00:29:14,462
Hoback:
Nouriel Roubini
is a famous economist,
695
00:29:14,504 --> 00:29:18,049
best known for predicting
the 2008 financial collapse,
696
00:29:18,133 --> 00:29:20,927
earning him the nickname
Dr. Doom.
697
00:29:21,011 --> 00:29:22,137
I'm a pain for them
698
00:29:22,178 --> 00:29:24,723
because I'm public enemy
number one of crypto.
699
00:29:24,806 --> 00:29:28,059
YouTuber:
Nouriel Roubini.
He can either be
700
00:29:28,143 --> 00:29:30,520
the world's biggest
crypto troll
701
00:29:30,562 --> 00:29:32,188
or an idiot.
702
00:29:32,272 --> 00:29:35,150
Hoback:
He's also known for throwing
wild hot tub parties,
703
00:29:35,233 --> 00:29:38,361
where he looks to have
"10 girls to every one guy."
704
00:29:38,403 --> 00:29:41,573
You know, I usually say
that I'm not, uh, "Dr. Doom,"
705
00:29:41,656 --> 00:29:43,283
I'm Dr. Realist.
706
00:29:44,117 --> 00:29:47,746
Honestly, I believe that
crypto, even blockchain,
707
00:29:48,496 --> 00:29:52,250
is the biggest fad
in financial history.
708
00:29:52,751 --> 00:29:56,129
In crypto, somebody steals
your private key,
709
00:29:56,212 --> 00:29:59,549
your money is gone,
your wealth is gone forever,
710
00:29:59,591 --> 00:30:01,426
for good. It disappears.
711
00:30:01,509 --> 00:30:02,761
reporter:
This guy is out
712
00:30:02,844 --> 00:30:05,221
of $225 million.
713
00:30:05,305 --> 00:30:07,599
Bitcoiner:
Seven and a half
thousand bitcoins
714
00:30:07,682 --> 00:30:09,893
on a hard drive
that I'd thrown out.
715
00:30:09,976 --> 00:30:11,853
If somebody steals
my credit card
716
00:30:11,895 --> 00:30:14,147
or gets my bank deposit,
717
00:30:14,230 --> 00:30:16,107
literally, I make a phone call,
718
00:30:16,191 --> 00:30:18,902
and I'm made
100% whole on that.
719
00:30:18,943 --> 00:30:20,570
We have reasons why
720
00:30:20,612 --> 00:30:22,947
we can monitor
financial transactions.
721
00:30:23,031 --> 00:30:25,325
Some government may abuse it,
722
00:30:25,408 --> 00:30:28,161
but there is no civilized
country in the world,
723
00:30:28,244 --> 00:30:31,039
or government,
is gonna allow crypto.
724
00:30:31,122 --> 00:30:33,041
There will be a crackdown,
725
00:30:33,124 --> 00:30:34,709
and it's all gonna disappear.
726
00:30:34,751 --> 00:30:38,213
This is about
undermining the Federal Reserve.
727
00:30:38,296 --> 00:30:41,591
This is about dis-intermediating
the nation-state.
728
00:30:41,675 --> 00:30:44,052
Satoshi, whoever he or she was,
729
00:30:44,135 --> 00:30:45,720
maybe was an idealist.
730
00:30:45,762 --> 00:30:48,973
Maybe he really cared
about protecting people
731
00:30:49,057 --> 00:30:51,935
from excessive abuse
of power and so on.
732
00:30:51,976 --> 00:30:54,145
The ideological origins
733
00:30:54,229 --> 00:30:57,941
of cryptocurrency, of Bitcoin,
of Satoshi himself,
734
00:30:57,982 --> 00:31:00,694
unequivocally anti nation-state
735
00:31:00,777 --> 00:31:02,696
and pro human freedom.
736
00:31:03,154 --> 00:31:05,240
Hoback:
But, they had a problem.
737
00:31:05,281 --> 00:31:07,283
While Satoshi understood
that Bitcoin
738
00:31:07,325 --> 00:31:11,162
wasn't actually anonymous,
just about everyone else...
739
00:31:11,246 --> 00:31:12,622
They didn't realize
it was traceable.
740
00:31:12,706 --> 00:31:15,291
It wasn't until
there was analysis done,
741
00:31:15,333 --> 00:31:18,628
cryptographers looking into it
started to see, actually,
742
00:31:18,712 --> 00:31:19,796
there's links.
743
00:31:19,879 --> 00:31:21,464
There's like a trail
on the blockchain
744
00:31:21,548 --> 00:31:22,549
that we can actually map.
745
00:31:22,632 --> 00:31:24,134
Hoback:
So, if someone who stole
746
00:31:24,175 --> 00:31:26,052
a bunch of Bitcoin
tries to cash out,
747
00:31:26,136 --> 00:31:27,637
you can see that
their Bitcoin wallet
748
00:31:27,721 --> 00:31:29,431
contains the stolen funds.
749
00:31:29,472 --> 00:31:33,018
-(pop, yelling, banging)
-Which is how people doing
illegal shit got caught.
750
00:31:33,101 --> 00:31:35,270
Today, the FBI
successfully seized
751
00:31:35,353 --> 00:31:38,314
criminal proceeds
from a Bitcoin wallet.
752
00:31:38,356 --> 00:31:39,482
♪♪
753
00:31:39,524 --> 00:31:41,401
Hoback:
So, Amir gathered
some hackers together
754
00:31:41,484 --> 00:31:42,902
in a sketchy squad
755
00:31:42,986 --> 00:31:45,238
to try and solve
Bitcoin's privacy problem.
756
00:31:45,321 --> 00:31:47,824
They hired a young kid
as their lead programmer.
757
00:31:47,866 --> 00:31:49,784
His name was Peter Todd.
758
00:31:49,826 --> 00:31:52,328
Peter Todd was living with us.
759
00:31:52,412 --> 00:31:54,664
You know,
that's how I got to know him.
760
00:31:54,706 --> 00:31:58,835
We put Peter Todd as the
chief scientist of our project
761
00:31:58,877 --> 00:32:01,254
to put him in opposition
to Gavin Andresen.
762
00:32:01,338 --> 00:32:02,297
♪♪
763
00:32:02,380 --> 00:32:05,008
You know, we're sitting in
a freezing cold room
764
00:32:05,091 --> 00:32:07,844
because it's an abandoned
building with no heat.
765
00:32:07,886 --> 00:32:09,637
And it's very unique.
766
00:32:09,721 --> 00:32:10,930
But, equally though,
767
00:32:11,056 --> 00:32:13,641
you get people who know
what they're talking about.
768
00:32:13,683 --> 00:32:17,062
You need to give people space to
actually work on these issues.
769
00:32:17,145 --> 00:32:20,148
-(birds chirping)
-(intriguing music playing)
770
00:32:20,190 --> 00:32:21,941
Hoback:
Nine years later,
771
00:32:22,025 --> 00:32:24,235
Peter was still trying
to solve these issues.
772
00:32:25,070 --> 00:32:27,489
Peter Todd:
There's a lot of people who
would like to see cash go away
773
00:32:27,530 --> 00:32:30,367
and like see your ability to
transact anonymously disappear.
774
00:32:30,450 --> 00:32:33,328
I mean, this,
this is a very dangerous thing.
775
00:32:35,205 --> 00:32:37,749
This needs to be treated
as a human rights issue.
776
00:32:37,832 --> 00:32:39,334
Hoback:
How'd you get into caving?
777
00:32:39,417 --> 00:32:41,628
Todd:
There was something called
the Toronto Caving Group.
778
00:32:42,253 --> 00:32:45,006
Didn't really pick the best
place to live for good caves.
779
00:32:47,217 --> 00:32:49,427
Here, you can actually see, uh,
780
00:32:49,511 --> 00:32:52,555
stalactites and stalagmites
sort of forming a column.
781
00:32:52,597 --> 00:32:56,267
So, you know this thing hasn't
moved for probably 30, 40 years.
782
00:32:56,351 --> 00:32:57,894
It's unlikely it'll collapse
on our heads,
783
00:32:57,977 --> 00:32:59,938
but one day, it will. (sighs)
784
00:33:00,021 --> 00:33:01,356
Hoback:
Tell me about your endeavors
785
00:33:01,439 --> 00:33:03,858
to try to make
a digital currency yourself.
786
00:33:03,942 --> 00:33:05,985
Well, you know,
787
00:33:06,069 --> 00:33:08,238
in, like, the mid-2000s,
788
00:33:08,321 --> 00:33:11,199
I was off getting
a fine arts degree.
789
00:33:11,825 --> 00:33:15,954
Started working halftime,
like, 2007, full-time in 2008,
790
00:33:16,037 --> 00:33:18,873
and I finally kinda
finished it in sort of 2009,
791
00:33:18,957 --> 00:33:20,750
and then went on
to start doing physics.
792
00:33:21,084 --> 00:33:25,005
Hoback:
So, have people suspected you
of being Satoshi at any point?
793
00:33:25,088 --> 00:33:27,716
(Peter Todd speaking)
794
00:33:29,300 --> 00:33:31,261
Hoback:
Why do they, uh,
think you're behind it?
795
00:33:32,137 --> 00:33:35,724
(Todd speaking)
796
00:33:36,725 --> 00:33:38,518
Hoback:
It was back in 2001,
797
00:33:38,601 --> 00:33:40,937
when Peter Todd,
a self-taught coder,
798
00:33:40,979 --> 00:33:43,606
first contacted Adam Back.
799
00:33:43,648 --> 00:33:45,608
He was only 15 at the time,
800
00:33:45,692 --> 00:33:47,444
and, like some sort of savant,
801
00:33:47,527 --> 00:33:50,655
he already had a deep
understanding of digital cash.
802
00:33:51,489 --> 00:33:53,783
You almost learned how to code
before you learned how to read.
803
00:33:53,825 --> 00:33:54,784
Yep.
804
00:33:54,868 --> 00:33:56,286
That's wild.
805
00:33:56,327 --> 00:33:58,455
The logic of coding
seemed pretty obvious to me.
806
00:33:58,538 --> 00:34:01,332
Were you just interested in
those issues in high school?
807
00:34:01,416 --> 00:34:04,085
Todd:
I happened to be
a young libertarian,
808
00:34:05,211 --> 00:34:07,339
and it was pretty obvious
to me that
809
00:34:07,422 --> 00:34:10,467
control of money
is a very big problem
810
00:34:10,550 --> 00:34:11,634
for freedom of speech.
811
00:34:11,676 --> 00:34:15,513
We should find a way to
have decentralized banking.
812
00:34:16,222 --> 00:34:17,849
Hoback:
Over the years,
Peter became
813
00:34:17,932 --> 00:34:20,310
an increasingly
controversial figure.
814
00:34:20,393 --> 00:34:23,271
The war on cash is the thing
that has to be stopped.
815
00:34:23,313 --> 00:34:25,273
And, frankly, everyone
in this audience,
816
00:34:25,315 --> 00:34:28,234
if you don't use cash
to go pay regularly,
817
00:34:28,318 --> 00:34:30,862
I don't, I don't respect you
as a Bitcoiner.
818
00:34:30,945 --> 00:34:32,155
Like, that's just a fact.
819
00:34:32,238 --> 00:34:34,324
If you're using credit
every single day, fuck you.
820
00:34:34,366 --> 00:34:36,368
(applause)
821
00:34:36,451 --> 00:34:39,454
Hoback:
Let's just say his takes
weren't always appreciated.
822
00:34:39,496 --> 00:34:41,456
Todd: One day,
Bitcoin will go to zero.
823
00:34:41,498 --> 00:34:42,957
You know,
it will eventually fail,
824
00:34:42,999 --> 00:34:44,167
like everything else.
825
00:34:44,209 --> 00:34:46,211
Peter will always try
to disagree with you.
826
00:34:46,294 --> 00:34:49,339
He's the contrarian
of contrarians.
827
00:34:49,381 --> 00:34:51,466
Todd: You know,
the people who really know...
828
00:34:52,050 --> 00:34:53,927
know how this stuff works,
I think realize
829
00:34:54,010 --> 00:34:56,304
that anyone competent enough
to go do Bitcoin
830
00:34:56,346 --> 00:34:58,932
probably would be competent
enough to not leave any traces.
831
00:34:59,516 --> 00:35:02,602
Hoback:
I mean, Satoshi left
a lot of digital history.
832
00:35:02,686 --> 00:35:05,605
Todd:
Yeah, but digital history
doesn't mean much, you know?
833
00:35:05,689 --> 00:35:08,692
Doesn't necessarily give you
any insight into who they were.
834
00:35:08,775 --> 00:35:10,360
♪♪
835
00:35:10,402 --> 00:35:12,195
Remember, things that
look like mistakes
836
00:35:12,278 --> 00:35:14,030
can be intentionally
misleading.
837
00:35:14,864 --> 00:35:17,951
If I were Satoshi, I would have
destroyed my ability
838
00:35:18,034 --> 00:35:20,120
to go prove I was Satoshi.
839
00:35:20,203 --> 00:35:22,414
Because then,
you'd never be tempted.
840
00:35:25,542 --> 00:35:27,794
Hoback: But, uh,
you're-you're not Satoshi?
841
00:35:28,628 --> 00:35:29,629
Oh, no, I am Satoshi.
842
00:35:29,713 --> 00:35:31,464
-I'm Satoshi Nakamoto.
-(Hoback laughs)
843
00:35:31,548 --> 00:35:33,758
-Hoback: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We're all Satoshi.
-Todd: Yep.
844
00:35:36,177 --> 00:35:39,431
(intriguing music playing)
845
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,395
-(church bell ringing)
-Todd: It's a monkey, I guess.
846
00:35:45,937 --> 00:35:48,440
-Back: Yep.
-Could be better.
847
00:35:49,941 --> 00:35:51,526
Hoback:
How'd you guys meet?
848
00:35:51,609 --> 00:35:52,652
Online first.
849
00:35:52,736 --> 00:35:56,531
I got more actively interested
in Bitcoin in 2013.
850
00:35:56,573 --> 00:35:59,242
Had the feeling that I don't
understand how this works.
851
00:35:59,325 --> 00:36:00,410
There are people
developing it,
852
00:36:00,452 --> 00:36:01,786
maybe I can find out
where they hang out.
853
00:36:01,953 --> 00:36:04,247
Hoback:
So, still trying to understand
how Bitcoin works,
854
00:36:04,330 --> 00:36:05,582
Adam heads over
to the forum
855
00:36:05,665 --> 00:36:08,877
and, for the first time ever,
makes some posts.
856
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:10,086
A lot of posts.
857
00:36:10,170 --> 00:36:12,380
Trying to prove his relevance
858
00:36:12,422 --> 00:36:14,674
and his apparent ignorance.
859
00:36:15,216 --> 00:36:17,677
I was a guy
who had a fine arts degree.
860
00:36:17,761 --> 00:36:20,555
Yet, you know,
I still understood the system
better than he did.
861
00:36:20,597 --> 00:36:23,266
Hoback:
So, to clear things up,
Adam started a thread,
862
00:36:23,350 --> 00:36:25,602
"Who is this annoying
Adam Back guy?"
863
00:36:25,643 --> 00:36:27,687
Of course, the Bitcoiners
knew who he was.
864
00:36:27,771 --> 00:36:30,273
I knew who you were.
I knew you invented Hashcash.
865
00:36:30,315 --> 00:36:31,983
And here you pop up,
and you were clueless.
866
00:36:32,067 --> 00:36:35,612
Hoback:
And they just thought
he was, well, pretending.
867
00:36:35,653 --> 00:36:37,572
Best evidence of
him being Satoshi.
868
00:36:37,614 --> 00:36:39,741
-Back: Of not being Satoshi.
-Todd: Being Satoshi.
869
00:36:39,783 --> 00:36:41,951
-Uh--
-Only Satoshi would go
to such great lengths
870
00:36:41,993 --> 00:36:44,162
to go and make sure no one
thought they were Satoshi.
871
00:36:44,245 --> 00:36:46,331
By the way,
everyone's Satoshi.
872
00:36:46,414 --> 00:36:49,292
Yeah, except for me.
I'm not Satoshi. (laughs)
873
00:36:49,376 --> 00:36:51,795
Hoback:
But the most suspicious thing
874
00:36:51,878 --> 00:36:54,297
was the timing of
his appearance on the forums.
875
00:36:54,381 --> 00:36:56,383
The same day Adam registered,
876
00:36:56,466 --> 00:37:00,303
a researcher discovered
a bug in Bitcoin's code.
877
00:37:00,345 --> 00:37:03,139
It enabled them to see
how much Satoshi had mined.
878
00:37:03,223 --> 00:37:06,059
-About a million Bitcoin.
-(whooshing)
879
00:37:06,142 --> 00:37:08,186
Adam seemed concerned, writing,
880
00:37:08,269 --> 00:37:10,814
"Perhaps we're forced
to protect him."
881
00:37:10,855 --> 00:37:11,981
And he had a plan.
882
00:37:12,065 --> 00:37:14,651
And I had a potential way
to improve Bitcoin's privacy...
883
00:37:14,734 --> 00:37:18,446
Hoback:
He wanted to make
Bitcoin truly anonymous.
884
00:37:18,488 --> 00:37:22,075
Which would also mean
Satoshi could spend their stash
885
00:37:22,158 --> 00:37:23,410
without anyone knowing.
886
00:37:23,493 --> 00:37:24,994
Back:
So, I talked to developers
887
00:37:25,078 --> 00:37:27,706
about how do--
how do you achieve this.
888
00:37:27,997 --> 00:37:30,333
Hoback:
And Adam's coming-out party
on the forums
889
00:37:30,375 --> 00:37:32,544
positioned him
so that within a year,
890
00:37:32,627 --> 00:37:34,504
he could start Blockstream.
891
00:37:34,587 --> 00:37:35,839
Because Bitcoin's problems,
892
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:37,924
they just couldn't be solved
in a squad,
893
00:37:38,008 --> 00:37:40,510
like what Peter and Amir
had attempted a year earlier.
894
00:37:40,593 --> 00:37:42,178
It required serious funding.
895
00:37:42,220 --> 00:37:43,805
Back:
It's a big undertaking.
896
00:37:43,847 --> 00:37:44,639
So, it'd need a company,
897
00:37:44,681 --> 00:37:46,016
it needs to employ
lots of people.
898
00:37:46,141 --> 00:37:49,019
Hoback:
Blockstream could do what
Satoshi couldn't.
899
00:37:49,102 --> 00:37:50,895
Raise money, build a huge team,
900
00:37:50,979 --> 00:37:54,024
and solve Bitcoin's
technical problems.
901
00:37:54,107 --> 00:37:56,943
You could say Blockstream is
a kind of corporate Satoshi?
902
00:37:57,027 --> 00:38:01,031
-Mm-hmm.
-Like, how did he become
the head of the company
903
00:38:01,114 --> 00:38:03,199
that became
the stewards of Bitcoin?
904
00:38:03,241 --> 00:38:04,534
Uh, it's a good question.
905
00:38:04,617 --> 00:38:08,288
He kind of, uh, shows up
and very quickly
906
00:38:08,371 --> 00:38:10,874
becomes integrated
into the Bitcoin community.
907
00:38:10,915 --> 00:38:14,586
Hoback:
Where he knew to pursue
the right kind of talent.
908
00:38:14,669 --> 00:38:16,379
So, Adam,
when you started Blockstream,
909
00:38:16,421 --> 00:38:18,048
did you try
to get Peter on board?
910
00:38:18,089 --> 00:38:20,884
-Well, kinda intentionally not.
-Yeah.
911
00:38:20,925 --> 00:38:23,345
We talked about saying it would
actually be much better
912
00:38:23,386 --> 00:38:25,638
-if I didn't work
for Blockstream.
-Back: Mm-hmm.
913
00:38:25,722 --> 00:38:27,974
'Cause it's better
if Blockstream
doesn't have everyone.
914
00:38:28,058 --> 00:38:29,559
♪♪
915
00:38:29,642 --> 00:38:32,103
Hoback:
While Peter Todd decided
not to work at Blockstream,
916
00:38:32,187 --> 00:38:35,190
his friend Greg Maxwell did.
917
00:38:35,231 --> 00:38:36,399
We're building infrastructure
918
00:38:36,483 --> 00:38:37,901
that Bitcoin needs
going forward.
919
00:38:37,984 --> 00:38:40,570
Hoback:
In fact, Greg founded
the company with Adam.
920
00:38:40,653 --> 00:38:42,822
O'Leary:
People like Greg Maxwell,
921
00:38:42,906 --> 00:38:44,908
they were considered
the, the thought leaders.
922
00:38:44,991 --> 00:38:47,369
Hoback:
Greg doesn't do interviews
anymore, right?
923
00:38:47,410 --> 00:38:51,456
Getting him to come
out of his, uh, home is, uh...
924
00:38:51,915 --> 00:38:55,502
Hoback:
...seemingly off the table,
with Greg writing to me,
925
00:38:55,752 --> 00:38:58,338
"I'm pretty exhausted
from years of harassment
926
00:38:58,421 --> 00:39:00,256
"driven by conspiracy theories.
927
00:39:00,298 --> 00:39:02,550
I feel like I've given enough."
928
00:39:03,635 --> 00:39:06,429
So, do you think
they were working with Satoshi?
929
00:39:06,471 --> 00:39:08,932
It was very mysterious.
Uh, th-there is the question
930
00:39:08,973 --> 00:39:11,101
of whether Adam Back is Satoshi.
931
00:39:11,351 --> 00:39:12,769
Hoback:
There's been a lot of debate
932
00:39:12,852 --> 00:39:16,398
over which of these cypherpunks
is most likely to be Satoshi.
933
00:39:16,439 --> 00:39:19,317
Hal Finney received
the first Bitcoin transaction,
934
00:39:19,401 --> 00:39:22,654
but he died of Lou Gehrig's
disease in 2014.
935
00:39:23,071 --> 00:39:24,406
Well, sort of.
936
00:39:24,489 --> 00:39:25,907
His head is frozen.
937
00:39:25,949 --> 00:39:27,701
So, if he's Satoshi,
938
00:39:27,784 --> 00:39:29,619
you'd probably have
to solve cryonics
939
00:39:29,703 --> 00:39:31,621
to get the key
that's stored in his head.
940
00:39:31,663 --> 00:39:34,207
But, there were some problems
with this theory.
941
00:39:34,290 --> 00:39:37,794
Satoshi's code bears zero
resemblance to Hal Finney's.
942
00:39:37,836 --> 00:39:40,463
-(shutter snaps)
-And Hal was photographed
in a 10-mile race,
943
00:39:40,547 --> 00:39:43,758
while Satoshi was
actively emailing with someone.
944
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,679
In 2015, The New York Times
pointed to Nick Szabo,
945
00:39:47,762 --> 00:39:49,973
a reclusive cypherpunk
who envisioned something
946
00:39:50,015 --> 00:39:51,349
pretty similar to Bitcoin.
947
00:39:51,433 --> 00:39:53,935
Would you ever be
open to, to doing,
948
00:39:54,019 --> 00:39:56,479
like, an interview on camera
about all of that?
949
00:39:56,521 --> 00:39:57,856
The key piece of evidence,
950
00:39:57,939 --> 00:39:59,983
he changed the date
of a blog entry,
951
00:40:00,025 --> 00:40:02,318
presumably so it would seem
like he came up
952
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,904
with this idea after Bitcoin.
953
00:40:05,447 --> 00:40:07,907
Thing is, he'd actually
announced months earlier
954
00:40:07,991 --> 00:40:10,744
that he'd be doing reruns
of his blog favorite entries,
955
00:40:10,827 --> 00:40:13,830
making this piece of evidence
look a lot less suspicious.
956
00:40:13,872 --> 00:40:16,082
(speaking English)
957
00:40:17,542 --> 00:40:19,002
-(Hoback laughs)
-(room chatter)
958
00:40:19,044 --> 00:40:22,005
Hoback:
There's Wei Dai,
who is a famous cryptographer.
959
00:40:22,047 --> 00:40:24,799
He claims there are no real
photos of him on the internet.
960
00:40:24,841 --> 00:40:26,676
But, he did speculate
that Satoshi
961
00:40:26,718 --> 00:40:28,845
must have been someone
with energy and time
962
00:40:28,928 --> 00:40:31,973
that isn't obligated to publish
papers under their real name.
963
00:40:32,015 --> 00:40:34,142
There's Len Sassaman,
David Chaum, Dorian Nakamoto...
964
00:40:34,184 --> 00:40:37,187
-(names overlapping,
echoing over each other)
-(mouse clicking)
965
00:40:37,270 --> 00:40:38,772
The list goes on and on.
966
00:40:38,855 --> 00:40:40,607
I am Satoshi!
967
00:40:40,690 --> 00:40:41,566
Okay!
968
00:40:41,858 --> 00:40:44,903
The biggest critic of crypto
is Satoshi himself.
969
00:40:45,528 --> 00:40:48,531
Hoback:
And while we could pick apart
each of these theories,
970
00:40:48,573 --> 00:40:50,617
the evidence pointing
in Adam's direction
971
00:40:50,700 --> 00:40:52,702
was a lot harder
to poke holes in.
972
00:40:52,744 --> 00:40:54,954
So, we're gonna focus on that.
973
00:40:55,038 --> 00:40:56,790
Though for a long time,
people hadn't really
974
00:40:56,873 --> 00:40:59,376
considered him a suspect.
And that's because
975
00:40:59,459 --> 00:41:01,294
he wasn't just cited
in the white paper.
976
00:41:01,378 --> 00:41:04,964
He was the only person called
out by name in the body of it.
977
00:41:05,048 --> 00:41:08,134
But, was Satoshi simply
hiding in plain sight?
978
00:41:08,218 --> 00:41:10,470
-(arrow slams)
-Back: I've never done it
before, so...
979
00:41:10,553 --> 00:41:12,847
-Okay. It's 99%.
-(laughs) It's just one--
Just this one hand, right?
980
00:41:12,931 --> 00:41:14,724
Hoback:
You see, like Satoshi,
981
00:41:14,766 --> 00:41:16,601
he writes in
a typically measured style
982
00:41:16,685 --> 00:41:18,103
with similar spelling choices.
983
00:41:19,688 --> 00:41:21,981
Now, Adam also claims that
he didn't really get involved
984
00:41:22,065 --> 00:41:24,484
until four years
after the launch of Bitcoin.
985
00:41:24,567 --> 00:41:26,695
In 2013, I felt like, you know,
986
00:41:26,778 --> 00:41:28,113
the embarrassing late guy,
987
00:41:28,196 --> 00:41:31,574
given that I should've known
better at the beginning, right?
988
00:41:31,616 --> 00:41:32,992
(laughs) And, uh...
989
00:41:33,076 --> 00:41:34,369
Hoback:
Thing is,
990
00:41:34,452 --> 00:41:35,745
back in 2011,
991
00:41:35,787 --> 00:41:37,706
you can see he was
on a mailing list,
992
00:41:37,789 --> 00:41:39,791
openly defending Bitcoin,
993
00:41:39,874 --> 00:41:43,336
and sharing complex insights
into Bitcoin's expansion.
994
00:41:43,420 --> 00:41:45,922
Weirder still, in 2012,
995
00:41:45,964 --> 00:41:49,217
he began making revisions
to Bitcoin's Wikipedia page,
996
00:41:50,218 --> 00:41:53,388
eventually restoring
the section about Satoshi...
997
00:41:54,305 --> 00:41:57,308
Just, like, tried to right
a slight historical wrong there.
998
00:41:57,392 --> 00:42:00,603
-Hoback: ...even adding
possible suspects.
-(shoots)
999
00:42:00,645 --> 00:42:03,148
Just leaving out his own name.
1000
00:42:05,191 --> 00:42:06,234
(shoots arrow)
1001
00:42:07,444 --> 00:42:09,654
How much is
Satoshi worth these days?
1002
00:42:09,738 --> 00:42:12,741
I don't know. Um, I mean,
even the number of coins
1003
00:42:12,824 --> 00:42:14,784
that he might have
is a bit speculative.
1004
00:42:14,868 --> 00:42:17,495
If they had a million coins,
1005
00:42:17,579 --> 00:42:19,539
whoever Satoshi is
would technically have
1006
00:42:19,622 --> 00:42:22,667
a huge amount of influence
if it becomes the,
1007
00:42:22,751 --> 00:42:24,961
-the new global currency, right?
-Back: Right.
1008
00:42:25,003 --> 00:42:26,921
Hoback:
That would mean that
whoever Satoshi is
1009
00:42:27,005 --> 00:42:30,216
might be one of the most
powerful people in the world.
1010
00:42:33,303 --> 00:42:34,846
♪♪
1011
00:42:34,929 --> 00:42:36,681
Even the slightest suggestion
1012
00:42:36,765 --> 00:42:38,767
that Satoshi had access
to their coins
1013
00:42:38,850 --> 00:42:41,061
had the power
to tumble markets.
1014
00:42:42,645 --> 00:42:45,815
Market fear has begun
to overtake rationality.
1015
00:42:45,899 --> 00:42:48,651
Hoback: But selling
a million coins all at once?
1016
00:42:48,693 --> 00:42:50,695
If these coins were dumped...
1017
00:42:50,779 --> 00:42:53,239
Hoback:
That could kill Bitcoin.
1018
00:42:53,323 --> 00:42:55,784
-(zaps)
-And as the stakes grew,
1019
00:42:55,825 --> 00:42:58,828
it kinda mattered
if Satoshi still had access.
1020
00:42:58,870 --> 00:43:00,747
If you were Satoshi,
where would you store
1021
00:43:00,830 --> 00:43:02,624
your private key
to the, uh, trove?
1022
00:43:02,665 --> 00:43:05,001
I don't know. That's a lot
of bitcoins, isn't it?
1023
00:43:05,085 --> 00:43:05,960
(Hoback laughs)
1024
00:43:06,419 --> 00:43:09,297
Hoback:
What do you think Satoshi
might've done with that key?
1025
00:43:09,339 --> 00:43:11,257
I don't know. I mean,
1026
00:43:11,341 --> 00:43:14,844
some people speculate that
he might've deleted them.
1027
00:43:14,886 --> 00:43:17,222
But, of course, we don't know--
we wouldn't know, right?
1028
00:43:17,681 --> 00:43:19,599
Hoback:
But, we could've known.
1029
00:43:19,683 --> 00:43:20,975
You see, there's a way
1030
00:43:21,059 --> 00:43:23,728
to verifiably destroy
your bitcoins.
1031
00:43:23,812 --> 00:43:25,855
It's called burning the coins,
1032
00:43:25,897 --> 00:43:28,692
and it's done in a public way
for all to see...
1033
00:43:28,733 --> 00:43:31,319
-(bursting)
-...on the blockchain.
1034
00:43:31,403 --> 00:43:33,488
♪♪
1035
00:43:33,530 --> 00:43:35,031
Bitcoiner:
You could burn all the coins
1036
00:43:35,073 --> 00:43:38,368
because that would remove the
small uncertainty that exists.
1037
00:43:38,410 --> 00:43:41,287
-Hoback: But,
Satoshi didn't do this.
-(whooshing)
1038
00:43:41,371 --> 00:43:44,708
Meaning they very well
might still have access.
1039
00:43:46,001 --> 00:43:48,044
If they kept that stuff,
there'd be a lot of temptation
1040
00:43:48,086 --> 00:43:49,254
to spend some of it.
1041
00:43:49,754 --> 00:43:51,256
Hoback:
So, Satoshi had to weigh
the temptation
1042
00:43:51,339 --> 00:43:53,550
of becoming
the richest person on Earth
1043
00:43:53,633 --> 00:43:55,010
against the possibility
1044
00:43:55,093 --> 00:43:57,303
that it would
derail their invention.
1045
00:43:59,889 --> 00:44:02,809
Do you think it'll ever
be known who Satoshi is?
1046
00:44:02,892 --> 00:44:04,185
Back:
I don't think so, no.
1047
00:44:04,227 --> 00:44:05,937
I mean, just-just because
all of the people
1048
00:44:06,021 --> 00:44:08,857
that have been identified
1049
00:44:08,940 --> 00:44:11,234
have various reasons,
believable reasons,
1050
00:44:11,276 --> 00:44:12,944
why it's probably not them.
1051
00:44:13,028 --> 00:44:14,446
And you know
what the list is, right?
1052
00:44:14,529 --> 00:44:17,365
-It's been circulated
a million times.
-Right. Right.
1053
00:44:18,533 --> 00:44:20,285
Hoback:
Wei Dai is on the list.
1054
00:44:20,744 --> 00:44:24,289
Um, Nick Szabo is on the list.
Hal Finney.
1055
00:44:24,372 --> 00:44:26,041
You're on the list.
And then,
1056
00:44:26,124 --> 00:44:29,419
maybe mysterious...
mysterious other person.
1057
00:44:29,461 --> 00:44:31,963
-Right.
-Um...
1058
00:44:32,922 --> 00:44:34,758
Well, I thought
you might think I'm Satoshi,
1059
00:44:34,799 --> 00:44:37,594
and I don't want that
to be on the record, really.
1060
00:44:37,677 --> 00:44:39,137
(both laugh)
1061
00:44:39,220 --> 00:44:41,598
-I mean, you're on
the list of suspects, right?
-Yeah, yeah,
1062
00:44:41,639 --> 00:44:42,932
but, uh, you know,
1063
00:44:43,016 --> 00:44:44,934
I was interested for you,
personally, to understand
1064
00:44:45,018 --> 00:44:48,271
that really-really,
I'm not, you know? Yeah.
1065
00:44:50,815 --> 00:44:52,942
-(breeze blowing)
-(birds chirping)
1066
00:44:53,026 --> 00:44:55,111
Hoback:
It seemed to me that,
at a minimum,
1067
00:44:55,195 --> 00:44:57,947
Adam was more involved
than he was letting on.
1068
00:44:57,989 --> 00:45:01,242
(intriguing music playing)
1069
00:45:03,328 --> 00:45:06,081
Meanwhile, Blockstream's
Bitcoin ambassador
1070
00:45:06,164 --> 00:45:09,209
was trying to make Bitcoin
the new global standard.
1071
00:45:09,292 --> 00:45:11,795
Mow:
This is a pivotal
time with Bitcoin,
1072
00:45:11,836 --> 00:45:13,254
and we have to push
the advantage we have now.
1073
00:45:13,296 --> 00:45:16,675
I have an in in Korea,
but if you wanna do Vietnam...
1074
00:45:16,758 --> 00:45:17,842
Michelle Phan:
Wow... Yeah!
1075
00:45:18,051 --> 00:45:20,136
-Fist bump... I'm down.
-Are you down? Okay!
1076
00:45:20,220 --> 00:45:21,179
Alright, I'm down, too.
1077
00:45:21,429 --> 00:45:23,723
Hoback:
Samson's young new ally
just happened to be
1078
00:45:23,807 --> 00:45:26,142
one of YouTube's
biggest beauty influencers.
1079
00:45:26,184 --> 00:45:29,145
Now, she was advising
on more than just makeup.
1080
00:45:29,229 --> 00:45:31,731
With Bitcoin,
you can buy it in smaller units.
1081
00:45:31,815 --> 00:45:35,735
There's 100 million satoshis
in one bitcoin.
1082
00:45:35,819 --> 00:45:37,779
Nothing ever infinitely goes up,
1083
00:45:37,821 --> 00:45:38,947
but Bitcoin will.
1084
00:45:39,197 --> 00:45:40,949
I feel like California
should become its own country
1085
00:45:41,032 --> 00:45:42,575
and adopt Bitcoin.
In my humble opinion.
1086
00:45:42,659 --> 00:45:45,328
It's like, what, the fourth
largest GDP right, in the world?
1087
00:45:45,370 --> 00:45:46,371
Yeah.
1088
00:45:46,454 --> 00:45:48,331
Hoback:
They were headed
to a political function
1089
00:45:48,373 --> 00:45:49,374
for Andrew Yang...
1090
00:45:49,457 --> 00:45:50,583
Andrew Yang:
I'm Andrew Yang,
1091
00:45:50,667 --> 00:45:53,461
and I'm running for president
as a Democrat in 2020.
1092
00:45:53,837 --> 00:45:56,715
Hoback:
...who kinda brought the idea
of universal basic income
1093
00:45:56,798 --> 00:45:58,299
into the mainstream.
1094
00:45:58,383 --> 00:46:01,511
-So, we gotta talk to Andrew
about UBI. Your UBI!
-Yeah.
1095
00:46:01,594 --> 00:46:04,514
Yes,
the universal Bitcoin income.
1096
00:46:04,597 --> 00:46:07,017
Not universal basic income.
We don't want basic shit.
1097
00:46:07,058 --> 00:46:08,518
-We want Bitcoin.
-Yeah, we're not basic.
1098
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:10,228
Thank you. Okay, here we are.
1099
00:46:10,311 --> 00:46:12,856
Hoback:
So, these two,
they're what's known as
1100
00:46:12,897 --> 00:46:15,942
Bitcoin maximalists,
or Maxi for short.
1101
00:46:16,026 --> 00:46:18,278
I'm a proud
Bitcoin Maxi now.
1102
00:46:18,361 --> 00:46:19,404
I'm toxic as fuck.
1103
00:46:19,487 --> 00:46:21,364
-(thunder cracks)
-Hoback: Does their profile pic
1104
00:46:21,448 --> 00:46:23,450
have lasers
coming out of their eyes?
1105
00:46:23,533 --> 00:46:24,784
Usually means they're a Maxi.
1106
00:46:24,868 --> 00:46:27,537
It was a system
of monetary belief.
1107
00:46:27,620 --> 00:46:29,289
Welcome to the new religion.
1108
00:46:29,372 --> 00:46:32,834
Hoback:
Faith that Bitcoin could fix
all the problems in the world.
1109
00:46:32,917 --> 00:46:34,210
Bitcoin fixes everything!
1110
00:46:34,294 --> 00:46:36,755
Hoback:
And that the US dollar
was on its way out.
1111
00:46:36,838 --> 00:46:38,256
Okay, here's a $10 bill.
1112
00:46:38,340 --> 00:46:41,051
-This is garbage.
This is garbage.
-(ripping)
1113
00:46:41,134 --> 00:46:43,511
Hoback:
Which could be
pretty fucking annoying.
1114
00:46:43,553 --> 00:46:47,140
But, ultimately, their goal
was to orange pill the world.
1115
00:46:47,223 --> 00:46:49,601
Phan: We're gonna try
and orange pill him.
1116
00:46:49,684 --> 00:46:51,227
Yang:
Oh my gosh! Hey, Michelle!
1117
00:46:51,311 --> 00:46:54,064
We have a real life
Asian-American supermodel
and activist.
1118
00:46:54,105 --> 00:46:56,608
Hoback:
Their tactics could
be pretty shameless.
1119
00:46:56,691 --> 00:46:58,485
-Andrew,
nice to meet you.
-Oh, nice to meet you, too.
1120
00:46:58,568 --> 00:47:00,362
This guy's changing the world.
I want you to meet him.
1121
00:47:00,403 --> 00:47:02,072
I think he's really important
for you to talk to.
1122
00:47:02,155 --> 00:47:03,698
Oh, no, I'm super pumped
about this. See this magic?
1123
00:47:03,740 --> 00:47:07,035
You see this magic in real time?
You wanna say a couple words?
1124
00:47:07,118 --> 00:47:10,830
Bitcoin is the most
important crypto out there.
1125
00:47:12,248 --> 00:47:13,875
Yang: Holy cow!
1126
00:47:31,393 --> 00:47:33,937
-Let's talk, uh, more deeply.
-Mow: Yeah!
1127
00:47:33,978 --> 00:47:36,481
What's your info? What's
the best way to be in touch?
1128
00:47:36,564 --> 00:47:40,193
Many of these utopian movements
start by a bunch of idealists.
1129
00:47:40,276 --> 00:47:42,862
But then, they're captured
by a bunch of greedy people,
1130
00:47:42,946 --> 00:47:44,280
they become a cult,
1131
00:47:44,322 --> 00:47:46,700
and the people and the system
becomes like a religion.
1132
00:47:46,783 --> 00:47:47,909
They become fanatic.
1133
00:47:47,992 --> 00:47:49,911
And then, all these utopias,
in due time,
1134
00:47:49,994 --> 00:47:52,872
they just disappear
in the dustbin of history.
1135
00:47:52,956 --> 00:47:54,833
And that's what's
gonna happen with crypto.
1136
00:47:54,916 --> 00:47:56,001
♪♪
1137
00:47:56,167 --> 00:47:58,962
Hoback:
Samson thought he could use
his own right hand.
1138
00:47:59,004 --> 00:48:00,630
Someone with connections.
1139
00:48:01,172 --> 00:48:03,800
Enter the Prince of Serbia.
1140
00:48:04,342 --> 00:48:06,094
Prince Philip:
2020, that's when
it really clicked.
1141
00:48:06,177 --> 00:48:09,180
There are synergies
between Bitcoin and monarchies.
1142
00:48:09,264 --> 00:48:11,057
-I'm a Maxi now.
-(laughter, indistinct chatter)
1143
00:48:11,141 --> 00:48:12,642
That's my great-grandfather.
1144
00:48:12,684 --> 00:48:14,185
This is my great-
great-grandfather.
1145
00:48:14,269 --> 00:48:16,980
Hoback:
I see. When do you get
your painting in here?
1146
00:48:17,022 --> 00:48:18,815
-Who knows?
-(laughter)
1147
00:48:18,857 --> 00:48:20,233
He has the perfect skill set
1148
00:48:20,316 --> 00:48:23,820
to contact, uh,
diplomats, presidents.
1149
00:48:23,903 --> 00:48:25,572
There's a lot of
big family network
1150
00:48:25,655 --> 00:48:28,116
to-to-to work through.
That opens a lot of doors.
1151
00:48:28,158 --> 00:48:29,659
Hoback:
Not that long ago,
1152
00:48:29,701 --> 00:48:32,746
Montenegro and Serbia used
to be part of the same country.
1153
00:48:32,829 --> 00:48:35,999
And Prince Philip's family
still had a lot of influence.
1154
00:48:36,041 --> 00:48:37,959
Prince Philip:
Prime Minister Spaji.
1155
00:48:38,001 --> 00:48:40,128
In terms of where he's at
with Bitcoin,
1156
00:48:40,170 --> 00:48:42,005
could be the start of
a good relationship with him
1157
00:48:42,088 --> 00:48:44,090
to get things moving
in this country.
1158
00:48:45,300 --> 00:48:48,053
I'm a big fan of Bitcoin,
obviously,
1159
00:48:48,136 --> 00:48:50,847
and of the technology
that Bitcoin brought.
1160
00:48:50,930 --> 00:48:53,016
Politically,
it's, it's a difficult sell.
1161
00:48:53,099 --> 00:48:55,018
You have to think about
all kinds of risks.
1162
00:48:55,101 --> 00:48:58,188
I think the government
shouldn't invest in Bitcoin.
1163
00:48:58,271 --> 00:48:59,898
If you're risk-averse,
you think the government
1164
00:48:59,981 --> 00:49:01,566
should not hold it.
That's fine.
1165
00:49:01,649 --> 00:49:04,736
But, in the event
that fiat currencies collapse,
1166
00:49:04,819 --> 00:49:07,280
everyone will rush into Bitcoin.
So, what we're trying to do
1167
00:49:07,364 --> 00:49:09,240
is get parallel systems
in place.
1168
00:49:09,324 --> 00:49:12,035
Dollars, Bitcoin, pesos,
Bitcoin, yen, Bitcoin.
1169
00:49:12,118 --> 00:49:13,661
We don't have our own currency.
1170
00:49:13,703 --> 00:49:17,540
We're using euros without
being able to print euros.
1171
00:49:17,624 --> 00:49:20,043
And that's not fair.
You know, that's not cool.
1172
00:49:20,085 --> 00:49:22,212
Maybe something to consider
1173
00:49:22,253 --> 00:49:24,881
is adopting Bitcoin
as simply money.
1174
00:49:24,923 --> 00:49:26,466
You don't need to tax anybody.
1175
00:49:26,549 --> 00:49:28,259
-You can just mine Bitcoin...
-Prince Philip: Yes.
1176
00:49:28,343 --> 00:49:29,844
...and that will
fund everything.
1177
00:49:29,928 --> 00:49:32,430
The electricity
is relatively cheap.
1178
00:49:32,514 --> 00:49:34,057
It's usually
the smaller countries
1179
00:49:34,140 --> 00:49:37,477
that are more agile
and willing to embrace change
1180
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:39,771
'cause they're looking
for some advantage.
1181
00:49:40,605 --> 00:49:41,898
I think it's a good idea.
1182
00:49:41,981 --> 00:49:44,776
You can really be a beacon
in Europe right now.
1183
00:49:44,859 --> 00:49:47,070
Concretely, how do we do this?
1184
00:49:47,153 --> 00:49:50,073
Mow: We had a really good talk
about Bitcoin adoption
1185
00:49:50,156 --> 00:49:53,618
and what they can do.
And they also, like Costa Rica,
1186
00:49:53,702 --> 00:49:55,370
have a lot of hydropower,
1187
00:49:55,412 --> 00:49:59,249
-so we're making progress
everywhere.
-(breaking up phone reply)
1188
00:49:59,290 --> 00:50:02,293
Hoback:
How did something with such
anarchistic roots
1189
00:50:02,377 --> 00:50:05,422
end up being
mined by countries?
1190
00:50:05,505 --> 00:50:08,675
narrator 1:
It all started in 1849.
1191
00:50:08,758 --> 00:50:10,677
There was gold in California.
1192
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:11,761
Hoback:
In the beginning,
1193
00:50:11,845 --> 00:50:13,346
if you wanted to do
Bitcoin mining,
1194
00:50:13,430 --> 00:50:14,931
your home computer
was good enough.
1195
00:50:15,015 --> 00:50:16,725
Which is how Satoshi racked up
1196
00:50:16,766 --> 00:50:20,186
-what appears to be
over a million Bitcoin.
-(swirling)
1197
00:50:20,270 --> 00:50:21,938
But, once Bitcoin had value...
1198
00:50:22,022 --> 00:50:23,231
narrator 1:
Within a short time,
1199
00:50:23,398 --> 00:50:26,484
all had caught the fever
that only gold would quench.
1200
00:50:26,568 --> 00:50:28,194
Hoback:
...people created
specialized mining rigs
1201
00:50:28,278 --> 00:50:29,446
to increase
their chances of winning.
1202
00:50:29,529 --> 00:50:31,531
narrator 1:
Which made the job move faster.
1203
00:50:31,614 --> 00:50:33,450
Hoback:
The more people who compete,
the harder it gets.
1204
00:50:33,491 --> 00:50:35,410
narrator 1:
As the gold became
more difficult to find...
1205
00:50:35,493 --> 00:50:38,288
Hoback:
Mining industrialized,
becoming an arms race.
1206
00:50:38,329 --> 00:50:40,749
narrator 2:
It was buckets,
after buckets, after buckets.
1207
00:50:40,790 --> 00:50:43,835
Hoback:
Looking for the cheapest
energy, the fastest miners,
1208
00:50:43,918 --> 00:50:45,295
in search of
the next golden ticket.
1209
00:50:45,378 --> 00:50:48,590
reporter:
Bitcoin mines generated
about $70,000 a day.
1210
00:50:48,631 --> 00:50:50,717
Hoback:
And if you can't keep up,
it stops being profitable.
1211
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,303
narrator 1:
As the gold gave out,
people moved away.
1212
00:50:53,345 --> 00:50:54,804
Hoback:
Until most of the players
left in the game
1213
00:50:54,888 --> 00:50:57,974
are basically billionaires
who own their own power plants,
1214
00:50:58,058 --> 00:51:00,852
or countries
who own the power grid.
1215
00:51:00,935 --> 00:51:02,020
It's the grand unveiling.
1216
00:51:02,103 --> 00:51:04,314
I think there's
a couple hundred in here.
1217
00:51:04,397 --> 00:51:05,523
It's a 40-foot container.
1218
00:51:05,690 --> 00:51:09,277
Hoback:
Requiring about
0.5% of all the energy.
1219
00:51:09,319 --> 00:51:12,906
And it requires increasing
amounts of energy consumption
1220
00:51:12,989 --> 00:51:14,866
as more miners compete.
1221
00:51:14,949 --> 00:51:17,494
Hoback:
And while you might think
that's pretty terrible...
1222
00:51:17,535 --> 00:51:19,579
-(fire crackling)
-...compounding
a climate catastrophe,
1223
00:51:19,662 --> 00:51:22,207
if you've ever heard
of petrodollars,
1224
00:51:22,290 --> 00:51:23,833
that's because Nixon
ditched the gold standard
1225
00:51:23,875 --> 00:51:26,670
and intertwined the US dollar
with the oil trade.
1226
00:51:26,711 --> 00:51:28,505
The effect of this action,
in other words,
1227
00:51:28,546 --> 00:51:31,508
will be to stabilize
the dollar.
1228
00:51:31,549 --> 00:51:33,426
Hoback:
Which helped solidify
the dollar's status
1229
00:51:33,510 --> 00:51:35,345
as the global reserve currency,
1230
00:51:35,387 --> 00:51:38,014
but kinda kept us
dependent on oil.
1231
00:51:38,056 --> 00:51:39,724
So, maybe it's just
the nature of money
1232
00:51:39,808 --> 00:51:42,310
that it's based on things
that people value.
1233
00:51:42,352 --> 00:51:45,230
Which is to say, a currency
derived from electricity
1234
00:51:45,313 --> 00:51:47,357
might pose a real threat
to the dollar
1235
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:49,234
if it gained in popularity.
1236
00:51:49,317 --> 00:51:51,569
Assuming it actually worked.
1237
00:51:54,072 --> 00:51:55,865
♪♪
1238
00:51:55,949 --> 00:51:59,536
You see, Bitcoin's original
design had a fatal flaw.
1239
00:51:59,619 --> 00:52:01,579
reporter 1:
Well, computer giant Dell
announcing today
1240
00:52:01,663 --> 00:52:04,290
-it will accept Bitcoin.
-reporter 2: Sacramento Kings
to accept Bitcoin.
1241
00:52:04,374 --> 00:52:07,335
Overstock is now
accepting Bitcoin.
1242
00:52:07,377 --> 00:52:09,170
Hoback:
If too many people
started using Bitcoin,
1243
00:52:09,212 --> 00:52:11,131
it would stop working.
1244
00:52:12,090 --> 00:52:13,550
And that's because those blocks
1245
00:52:13,633 --> 00:52:16,094
that make up Bitcoin's
record keeping system,
1246
00:52:16,803 --> 00:52:19,639
-they just can't hold
very much information.
-(whooshing)
1247
00:52:19,723 --> 00:52:21,349
They're small.
And you have to wait
1248
00:52:21,391 --> 00:52:23,309
10 minutes before
another block forms.
1249
00:52:24,310 --> 00:52:26,062
So, when Bitcoin got popular,
1250
00:52:26,104 --> 00:52:27,439
your transaction would be stuck
1251
00:52:27,522 --> 00:52:30,358
in line for hours,
sometimes days.
1252
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:32,861
And since money needs
to work immediately,
1253
00:52:32,944 --> 00:52:34,696
this was a disaster.
1254
00:52:34,779 --> 00:52:36,531
Transaction times
are incredibly high.
1255
00:52:36,573 --> 00:52:38,575
There's a lot of people
questioning long-term
sustainability.
1256
00:52:38,658 --> 00:52:41,286
Stripe is getting out
of the Bitcoin business.
1257
00:52:41,369 --> 00:52:43,580
Hoback:
So Gavin, who was still kind of
1258
00:52:43,663 --> 00:52:45,248
steering the Bitcoin ship,
announced...
1259
00:52:45,331 --> 00:52:47,334
We'll definitely
need to increase
1260
00:52:47,417 --> 00:52:48,793
the maximum block size.
1261
00:52:48,877 --> 00:52:52,088
-Hoback: In other words,
make each block bigger.
-(whirs)
1262
00:52:52,172 --> 00:52:54,424
More room for all
the transactions.
1263
00:52:54,466 --> 00:52:56,092
But, not everyone agreed.
1264
00:52:56,134 --> 00:52:57,677
This is obviously a bad idea.
1265
00:52:57,761 --> 00:52:58,803
Oh, this is all bullshit.
1266
00:52:58,887 --> 00:53:01,222
These guys are bringing
about the doom of Bitcoin.
1267
00:53:01,806 --> 00:53:05,435
Hoback:
A disagreement which resulted
in a massive nerd fight,
1268
00:53:06,227 --> 00:53:09,731
known as the Blocksize War.
1269
00:53:09,814 --> 00:53:12,776
So, why were they being
so apocalyptic
1270
00:53:12,859 --> 00:53:15,612
about just adding more space
to each Bitcoin block?
1271
00:53:15,695 --> 00:53:17,781
The nerds had
some good reasons.
1272
00:53:17,864 --> 00:53:20,033
For instance,
if you could change something
1273
00:53:20,116 --> 00:53:22,118
as fundamental
as the block size,
1274
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:24,788
could you also change
the total supply
1275
00:53:24,871 --> 00:53:27,123
from 21 million to 100?
1276
00:53:27,165 --> 00:53:30,752
People might lose their faith
in what makes Bitcoin Bitcoin.
1277
00:53:30,835 --> 00:53:32,754
Although, to make
a change like this,
1278
00:53:32,796 --> 00:53:35,340
you have to get pretty much
everyone on board.
1279
00:53:35,423 --> 00:53:38,259
-Otherwise,
the community will split.
-(horn blaring)
1280
00:53:38,301 --> 00:53:39,886
So, instead of
changing Bitcoin,
1281
00:53:39,969 --> 00:53:43,431
the Small Blockers had
a complex technical solution,
1282
00:53:43,473 --> 00:53:45,558
but it would take years.
Meanwhile,
1283
00:53:45,642 --> 00:53:48,061
the Big Blockers wanted
Bitcoin to work now,
1284
00:53:48,144 --> 00:53:49,646
not in some theoretical future.
1285
00:53:49,688 --> 00:53:52,357
Ver:
Governments move slowly.
We need to move quickly
1286
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:53,775
and make this cash
for the entire world
1287
00:53:53,817 --> 00:53:55,568
before the politicians
even know what happened
1288
00:53:55,652 --> 00:53:57,654
and they have time to react
via bigger blocks.
1289
00:53:57,696 --> 00:54:00,657
Hoback:
The fight became vicious,
with each side
1290
00:54:00,699 --> 00:54:03,243
accusing the other of
trying to destroy Bitcoin.
1291
00:54:03,326 --> 00:54:06,287
Ver:
I'm not exaggerating, this
is a life and death matter.
1292
00:54:06,371 --> 00:54:09,833
More babies are dying
in countries around the world
1293
00:54:09,874 --> 00:54:12,252
because they have
less economic freedom.
1294
00:54:12,335 --> 00:54:14,004
Mow:
He's not Bitcoin Jesus.
1295
00:54:14,045 --> 00:54:15,547
He's Bitcoin Judas.
1296
00:54:15,630 --> 00:54:16,840
(buzzer blares)
1297
00:54:16,923 --> 00:54:18,675
He's the one that's
trying to kill Bitcoin.
1298
00:54:18,758 --> 00:54:20,343
Hoback:
With Bitcoin
essentially divided
1299
00:54:20,427 --> 00:54:22,303
between the church
of small blocks
1300
00:54:22,345 --> 00:54:23,722
and the church
and big blocks,
1301
00:54:23,805 --> 00:54:24,681
you might be wondering
1302
00:54:24,764 --> 00:54:26,307
where did Satoshi
fall in all of this?
1303
00:54:26,349 --> 00:54:28,268
I think Satoshi
handed the keys off to Gavin
1304
00:54:28,351 --> 00:54:30,520
because he viewed Gavin
as a responsible steward
1305
00:54:30,603 --> 00:54:32,355
of the future
of the project.
1306
00:54:32,397 --> 00:54:33,940
But, that doesn't mean
you're the leader.
1307
00:54:34,024 --> 00:54:36,109
That just means you're the guy
who answers questions.
1308
00:54:36,192 --> 00:54:38,153
Hoback:
Well, it seemed Satoshi
1309
00:54:38,236 --> 00:54:40,822
was about to make
their views known.
1310
00:54:41,573 --> 00:54:42,782
After years of silence,
1311
00:54:42,866 --> 00:54:45,702
Satoshi sends an email out
to the mailing list
1312
00:54:47,037 --> 00:54:49,414
to share their concerns.
1313
00:54:49,664 --> 00:54:52,917
It's from the same address
Satoshi used back in 2008.
1314
00:54:53,668 --> 00:54:56,129
The one to distribute
the white paper.
1315
00:54:56,212 --> 00:54:58,256
His words were clear, harsh...
1316
00:54:58,631 --> 00:55:01,051
and firmly against
Roger, Gavin,
1317
00:55:01,092 --> 00:55:02,635
and the big corporations.
1318
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:05,138
There's a debate
around whether or not
1319
00:55:05,221 --> 00:55:07,557
that was, like, legitimate.
1320
00:55:07,599 --> 00:55:10,769
But, whoever had access
to Satoshi's email
1321
00:55:10,852 --> 00:55:13,438
was somewhat aligned
with Blockstream,
1322
00:55:13,521 --> 00:55:15,940
with their angle
on the scaling debate.
1323
00:55:16,024 --> 00:55:18,568
Hoback:
While some question
the email's authenticity,
1324
00:55:18,651 --> 00:55:22,405
it placed Satoshi squarely
on Blockstream's side.
1325
00:55:23,531 --> 00:55:25,658
-(curious music playing)
-(blade slicing)
1326
00:55:25,742 --> 00:55:28,953
And then, as if sent
from digital heaven,
1327
00:55:29,371 --> 00:55:31,331
Satoshi appeared
in the flesh.
1328
00:55:31,414 --> 00:55:33,625
He was apparently
an Australian fellow...
1329
00:55:35,168 --> 00:55:37,796
named Craig Wright.
1330
00:55:37,879 --> 00:55:41,925
So, you're gonna show me
that Satoshi Nakamoto is you?
1331
00:55:41,966 --> 00:55:43,802
♪♪
1332
00:55:43,885 --> 00:55:45,011
Yes.
1333
00:55:45,095 --> 00:55:47,013
I do think Craig is Satoshi.
1334
00:55:47,097 --> 00:55:48,348
I met with him in London.
1335
00:55:48,431 --> 00:55:51,476
Uh, he fits the kind of person
1336
00:55:51,559 --> 00:55:55,146
that I was interacting
with way back in 2010,
1337
00:55:55,230 --> 00:55:59,317
and he provided
some cryptographic proof.
1338
00:55:59,401 --> 00:56:01,403
Hoback:
Miraculously, this Satoshi
1339
00:56:01,486 --> 00:56:03,571
was on Gavin and Roger's side.
1340
00:56:03,988 --> 00:56:05,615
At first, it seemed
wonderful because, oh,
1341
00:56:05,657 --> 00:56:07,409
Satoshi's back,
and he's a Big Blocker.
1342
00:56:07,492 --> 00:56:09,285
Raise the block size.
1343
00:56:09,327 --> 00:56:11,371
Very quickly, people figured out
1344
00:56:11,454 --> 00:56:13,039
this is obviously bullshit.
1345
00:56:13,123 --> 00:56:15,417
Hoback:
It seems like
he'd fake the evidence
1346
00:56:15,500 --> 00:56:18,128
by backdating
his cryptographic proof.
1347
00:56:18,169 --> 00:56:19,963
Craig Wright is
incredibly convincing.
1348
00:56:20,046 --> 00:56:22,549
For me, he's proved it
1349
00:56:22,632 --> 00:56:23,800
beyond a reasonable doubt.
1350
00:56:23,842 --> 00:56:25,510
But, if you dig
deep enough, long enough,
1351
00:56:25,593 --> 00:56:27,470
the inconsistencies will emerge.
1352
00:56:27,554 --> 00:56:30,765
Yeah, I-I have to be careful
about talking about that topic
1353
00:56:30,849 --> 00:56:33,351
because he, uh, sued me
at some point.
1354
00:56:33,435 --> 00:56:34,769
-Hoback: Who did?
-Craig.
1355
00:56:34,853 --> 00:56:36,062
-He sued--
-Hoback: For what?
1356
00:56:36,146 --> 00:56:37,564
For libel.
He sued a lot of people.
1357
00:56:37,647 --> 00:56:39,858
Hoback:
(laughs) Well, that's
something to look forward to.
1358
00:56:39,941 --> 00:56:43,445
(slow music playing)
1359
00:56:43,486 --> 00:56:46,114
To me, Craig Wright was
the death blow in the war.
1360
00:56:47,365 --> 00:56:50,785
"Death blow" is a strong word,
but something close to that.
1361
00:56:52,454 --> 00:56:54,080
Thanks, Craig. (scoffs)
1362
00:56:55,206 --> 00:56:56,499
Todd:
We got lucky.
1363
00:56:56,541 --> 00:56:58,209
The Blocksize War
went the right way.
1364
00:56:58,293 --> 00:57:00,378
Hoback:
The Blocksize War was over,
1365
00:57:00,462 --> 00:57:02,380
and the Small Blockers had won.
1366
00:57:03,089 --> 00:57:06,217
-(laughs) The victor
writes history.
-Mow: (laughs) Yeah.
1367
00:57:06,301 --> 00:57:08,678
O'Leary:
They established themselves as
1368
00:57:08,720 --> 00:57:10,722
the ideological
authority on Bitcoin.
1369
00:57:11,097 --> 00:57:14,559
Hoback:
But, had Satoshi
simply regained control?
1370
00:57:16,561 --> 00:57:18,605
It took the Small Blockers
almost a decade
1371
00:57:18,688 --> 00:57:20,190
to make their plan work.
1372
00:57:20,273 --> 00:57:21,900
None of that Starbucks bullshit!
1373
00:57:21,983 --> 00:57:24,694
Hoback:
You could buy
coffee with Bitcoin,
1374
00:57:24,736 --> 00:57:27,238
which is why countries
were now able to adopt it.
1375
00:57:27,322 --> 00:57:30,950
But, it required the support
of companies like Blockstream.
1376
00:57:31,034 --> 00:57:33,745
-Cheers. You're not
supposed to cheers coffee.
-(cups clink)
1377
00:57:33,828 --> 00:57:35,538
Hoback:
And these companies
would take a small cut
1378
00:57:35,580 --> 00:57:38,708
out of every transaction.
Meaning it ain't...
1379
00:57:38,750 --> 00:57:41,002
Back:
Permissionless electronic cash
for the internet.
1380
00:57:41,419 --> 00:57:45,256
Hoback:
Which fueled theories that
they had ulterior motives.
1381
00:57:45,674 --> 00:57:47,217
It's been delayed by
at least a decade, if not more,
1382
00:57:47,300 --> 00:57:49,678
because of this, uh, block size
limit that was imposed,
1383
00:57:49,719 --> 00:57:53,056
and probably covert government
agents helping it along.
1384
00:57:53,139 --> 00:57:56,559
-Hoback: Yeah, so I guess
we'll just go--
-Peter Todd. (laughs)
1385
00:57:56,643 --> 00:57:57,727
Sorry, what was that?
1386
00:57:57,769 --> 00:57:59,688
I said Peter Todd,
for one. (laughs)
1387
00:58:00,438 --> 00:58:04,401
Hoback:
Wait. Roger thought Peter Todd
was working for the government?
1388
00:58:04,484 --> 00:58:05,694
(tense music playing)
1389
00:58:05,735 --> 00:58:07,779
Hoback:
What-What indication
did you have
1390
00:58:07,862 --> 00:58:09,447
that he was,
1391
00:58:09,531 --> 00:58:11,908
perhaps, collaborating
with the government?
1392
00:58:11,991 --> 00:58:14,035
The things he was advocating
that should happen with Bitcoin
1393
00:58:14,077 --> 00:58:16,413
were counterproductive
to Bitcoin being usable
1394
00:58:16,454 --> 00:58:17,956
as cash and usable as money.
1395
00:58:18,039 --> 00:58:19,290
(typing)
1396
00:58:19,374 --> 00:58:20,583
Hoback:
Prior to 2013,
1397
00:58:20,625 --> 00:58:22,502
pretty much all of
Peter Todd's history
1398
00:58:22,585 --> 00:58:24,629
appears to be wiped
from the internet.
1399
00:58:25,755 --> 00:58:27,841
I finally found
his personal website.
1400
00:58:27,924 --> 00:58:29,592
2001...
1401
00:58:29,634 --> 00:58:30,927
Where, in high school,
1402
00:58:30,969 --> 00:58:33,430
when he was communicating
with the cypherpunks,
1403
00:58:33,513 --> 00:58:34,931
he joked that in the event
1404
00:58:34,973 --> 00:58:37,600
he becomes an evil dictator
who takes over the world,
1405
00:58:37,642 --> 00:58:39,894
he was screwed up
from childhood.
1406
00:58:40,353 --> 00:58:42,689
His father was an economist,
1407
00:58:42,772 --> 00:58:44,941
and his mother taught him
about encryption.
1408
00:58:44,983 --> 00:58:47,944
And while Peter Todd
might have worked for...
1409
00:58:47,986 --> 00:58:49,779
A company manufacturing
gyroscopes
1410
00:58:49,863 --> 00:58:52,157
for drones in the military.
1411
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:56,036
Hoback:
...being in the CIA obviously
wasn't on his resume.
1412
00:58:56,119 --> 00:58:59,581
Or whatever the fuck Canada's
intelligence agency's called.
1413
00:58:59,622 --> 00:59:01,583
But, Roger brought up
something suspicious.
1414
00:59:01,666 --> 00:59:04,294
Later, somebody leaked
this email exchange from him,
1415
00:59:04,336 --> 00:59:05,462
and that guy openly claimed
1416
00:59:05,545 --> 00:59:07,213
that he was working
for the US government.
1417
00:59:07,297 --> 00:59:09,007
Anybody who looks on Google
1418
00:59:09,090 --> 00:59:12,302
and searches,
"Peter Todd leaked emails"
will see...
1419
00:59:12,385 --> 00:59:15,722
Hoback: Back in 2013,
there was this email thread
1420
00:59:15,805 --> 00:59:17,849
that had been leaked
between Peter Todd
1421
00:59:17,932 --> 00:59:20,685
and a guy who called
himself John Dillon.
1422
00:59:20,769 --> 00:59:22,228
Taaki:
And in the emails,
1423
00:59:22,312 --> 00:59:25,398
Peter Todd was conspiring
with this other guy
1424
00:59:25,482 --> 00:59:29,027
who was affiliated
with state actors.
1425
00:59:29,110 --> 00:59:31,029
Hoback:
With John Dillon claiming,
1426
00:59:31,112 --> 00:59:32,989
"My day job
involves intelligence,
1427
00:59:33,031 --> 00:59:35,950
and I'm in a relatively
high position."
1428
00:59:36,034 --> 00:59:39,162
Maybe Amir just wasn't
aware of this at the time.
1429
00:59:39,996 --> 00:59:41,790
If it looks like something's
coming into existence
1430
00:59:41,831 --> 00:59:44,668
that could replace the US dollar
as the world's reserve currency,
1431
00:59:44,751 --> 00:59:46,878
the US government and
its three-letter agencies
1432
00:59:46,961 --> 00:59:49,881
absolutely, without any doubt,
will do whatever they can,
1433
00:59:49,964 --> 00:59:52,550
including secretly and covertly
disrupting projects
1434
00:59:52,634 --> 00:59:53,718
like Bitcoin.
1435
00:59:54,094 --> 00:59:56,763
Hoback:
If the government
wanted to undermine Bitcoin,
1436
00:59:56,846 --> 00:59:59,349
or try to get close to Satoshi,
how might they do it?
1437
00:59:59,432 --> 01:00:01,851
A guy that openly said
that he was working
for a three-letter agency
1438
01:00:01,893 --> 01:00:03,228
literally paid Peter Todd
1439
01:00:03,311 --> 01:00:05,897
to implement what's
called replace-by-fee.
1440
01:00:05,980 --> 01:00:09,901
Hoback:
John Dillon offered
a strangely small $500 reward
1441
01:00:09,984 --> 01:00:12,028
for anyone who could
design replace-by-fee.
1442
01:00:12,112 --> 01:00:14,739
It was essentially
a bidding service.
1443
01:00:14,823 --> 01:00:18,785
If you pay more, you can
send your Bitcoin faster.
1444
01:00:18,868 --> 01:00:20,787
Replace-by-fee was an attempt
1445
01:00:20,870 --> 01:00:23,748
to fix one of Bitcoin's
design problems.
1446
01:00:24,207 --> 01:00:26,710
Something that Satoshi
had speculated on
1447
01:00:26,793 --> 01:00:29,254
just before disappearing
from the forums.
1448
01:00:29,838 --> 01:00:32,590
And Satoshi knew it would be
a fair amount of work.
1449
01:00:32,674 --> 01:00:35,719
So, why would Peter Todd
do it for 500 bucks?
1450
01:00:36,177 --> 01:00:39,472
On the forums, John Dillon
publicly prodded Peter Todd to,
1451
01:00:39,556 --> 01:00:42,100
"Write some code for once."
1452
01:00:42,183 --> 01:00:44,686
And so, in 2013,
1453
01:00:44,728 --> 01:00:47,605
about three years after
Satoshi's disappearance,
1454
01:00:47,689 --> 01:00:50,316
Peter Todd solves
this design problem.
1455
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:52,068
I played that little part,
1456
01:00:52,152 --> 01:00:54,154
creating this
replace-by-fee patch.
1457
01:00:54,237 --> 01:00:57,240
Hoback:
Which the Big Blockers
thought was a terrible idea
1458
01:00:57,282 --> 01:00:59,868
because it could result
in some really high fees
1459
01:00:59,951 --> 01:01:01,745
just to send some Bitcoin.
1460
01:01:02,162 --> 01:01:04,039
Ver:
Peter Todd, whether
he's a government agent,
1461
01:01:04,122 --> 01:01:06,207
he's absolutely
a super smart guy.
1462
01:01:06,249 --> 01:01:07,751
He's gotta be
the smartest guy in the room.
1463
01:01:07,834 --> 01:01:09,085
He always wants
to make sure he can prove
1464
01:01:09,169 --> 01:01:10,587
that he's the smartest guy
in the room.
1465
01:01:10,670 --> 01:01:13,048
So, is anyone
in this audience
1466
01:01:13,089 --> 01:01:14,758
working for government
right now?
1467
01:01:14,841 --> 01:01:16,092
(scattered laughter)
1468
01:01:16,134 --> 01:01:17,969
Because if you are,
I guess I'm one of the people
1469
01:01:18,053 --> 01:01:21,056
handling negotiation
with government.
1470
01:01:21,139 --> 01:01:22,599
Hoback:
Even the email exchange
1471
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:25,393
made Peter Todd
look pretty damn smart.
1472
01:01:25,477 --> 01:01:26,603
But after the leak,
1473
01:01:26,686 --> 01:01:28,772
John Dillon
disappeared for good.
1474
01:01:28,855 --> 01:01:31,149
As far as I know, Peter Todd
never denied any of that.
1475
01:01:31,232 --> 01:01:33,777
I think that's pretty much
accepted as fact at this point.
1476
01:01:33,860 --> 01:01:35,904
Hoback:
I found myself wondering
1477
01:01:35,945 --> 01:01:39,074
if maybe he did work for
the government in some way.
1478
01:01:39,157 --> 01:01:42,452
So, how close were you with
Blockstream back in the day?
1479
01:01:42,494 --> 01:01:43,453
-Todd: Me?
-Hoback: Yeah.
1480
01:01:43,536 --> 01:01:45,789
Uh, mostly,
I went to their office,
1481
01:01:45,872 --> 01:01:47,624
uh, drink all their Red Bull.
1482
01:01:47,665 --> 01:01:49,793
I'd go and
eat all their snacks.
1483
01:01:49,876 --> 01:01:51,544
Yeah, yeah. I mean,
they'd never pay me,
1484
01:01:51,628 --> 01:01:54,047
but I might as well get paid
in all other possible ways.
1485
01:01:54,506 --> 01:01:57,967
Hoback:
So, he was just
strategically close to Adam.
1486
01:01:58,051 --> 01:02:00,512
Well, Adam seems
to respect you a lot.
1487
01:02:01,805 --> 01:02:05,100
Meh, I mean I guess
I have reasonable ideas.
1488
01:02:05,141 --> 01:02:08,103
It's not that hard.
Adam respects plenty of people.
1489
01:02:08,186 --> 01:02:10,480
-I think he thinks of
you like a son.
-A son.
1490
01:02:10,563 --> 01:02:12,273
Yeah. I mean,
I first talked to him
1491
01:02:12,315 --> 01:02:15,235
-when I was, like, a teenager.
-(Mow laughs)
1492
01:02:15,318 --> 01:02:16,611
It's probably part of it.
1493
01:02:16,695 --> 01:02:17,946
♪♪
1494
01:02:18,029 --> 01:02:20,031
Hoback:
They've got a lot of
conspiracies about you.
1495
01:02:20,115 --> 01:02:21,324
Todd:
Well, they should.
1496
01:02:21,366 --> 01:02:23,910
Don't you know I, like,
worked for the CIA, NSA,
1497
01:02:23,993 --> 01:02:25,995
and also KGB at the same time?
1498
01:02:26,079 --> 01:02:29,165
Hoback:
Well, they like to point at that
email dump that happened.
1499
01:02:29,249 --> 01:02:31,292
Oh, yeah, yeah,
the John Dillon bullshit.
1500
01:02:31,334 --> 01:02:33,670
-Hoback: Did you release that?
-I have no idea
who that guy is.
1501
01:02:33,753 --> 01:02:35,880
-Hoback: Really?
-I mean, you know, people go
1502
01:02:35,964 --> 01:02:37,340
and email you all the time,
1503
01:02:37,382 --> 01:02:40,343
like, telling you
all kinds of bullshit.
1504
01:02:40,385 --> 01:02:42,345
Hoback:
Looked like you were trying
to solve a lot of problems
1505
01:02:42,429 --> 01:02:44,681
-with him at the time, and, uh--
-No, I mean--
1506
01:02:44,723 --> 01:02:45,974
Hoback:
And there was, like, concerns
1507
01:02:46,057 --> 01:02:48,143
that, I guess that
John Dillon guy
1508
01:02:48,184 --> 01:02:50,186
was like under-- was like,
an agent or something and then--
1509
01:02:50,228 --> 01:02:52,230
The guy explicitly
claimed he was, uh,
1510
01:02:52,313 --> 01:02:54,691
you know, working for
the US government intelligence.
1511
01:02:54,774 --> 01:02:56,693
But, you know,
is that true or not?
1512
01:02:56,776 --> 01:02:58,570
Who the fuck knows? Like,
1513
01:02:58,945 --> 01:03:00,030
the problem with all this stuff
1514
01:03:00,071 --> 01:03:02,866
is people play all kinds
of crazy games.
1515
01:03:02,949 --> 01:03:04,075
Could be a 4chan troll.
1516
01:03:04,159 --> 01:03:05,827
Like, that's just
the reality of it.
1517
01:03:05,910 --> 01:03:06,870
You just don't know.
1518
01:03:06,911 --> 01:03:08,371
Hoback:
In that email chain,
1519
01:03:08,413 --> 01:03:11,249
there was one thing that
the John Dillon guy said,
1520
01:03:11,332 --> 01:03:12,500
where he was like,
1521
01:03:12,542 --> 01:03:15,128
"If the US government
wanted to fuck up Bitcoin,
1522
01:03:15,211 --> 01:03:18,298
-here's the strategy
that they might take."
-Todd: Well, yeah...
1523
01:03:18,381 --> 01:03:20,175
If you wanted
to go screw with Bitcoin,
1524
01:03:20,258 --> 01:03:23,053
one of the things you do is try
to convince the coding community
1525
01:03:23,136 --> 01:03:25,388
to go splinter up into, like,
five different efforts.
1526
01:03:25,472 --> 01:03:28,892
Hoback:
Which is what happened
after the Blocksize War.
1527
01:03:29,267 --> 01:03:32,228
Because if you couldn't
change Bitcoin,
1528
01:03:32,270 --> 01:03:35,857
why not just
make your own coin?
1529
01:03:36,399 --> 01:03:39,152
♪ Pump it up,
you've got to pump it up ♪
1530
01:03:39,235 --> 01:03:41,237
♪ Don't you know, pump it up ♪
1531
01:03:41,321 --> 01:03:43,156
♪ You've got to pump it up ♪
1532
01:03:43,239 --> 01:03:46,034
Hoback:
Soon, dozens, then hundreds,
1533
01:03:46,117 --> 01:03:48,828
then thousands of
alternate coins revved up,
1534
01:03:48,912 --> 01:03:50,080
each coin proclaiming to offer
1535
01:03:50,163 --> 01:03:52,248
something different
from Bitcoin.
1536
01:03:52,332 --> 01:03:55,418
You could even bank
while you wank.
1537
01:03:55,460 --> 01:03:57,754
newscaster:
It's unbelievable
how much this has taken off.
1538
01:03:57,796 --> 01:03:59,798
Hoback:
The crypto industry exploded.
1539
01:03:59,881 --> 01:04:04,094
-(elongated) Bitconne...ct!
-(crowd cheering)
1540
01:04:04,177 --> 01:04:05,720
Hoback:
Like the stock market,
1541
01:04:05,762 --> 01:04:07,639
you could bet
that these alt coins
1542
01:04:07,722 --> 01:04:09,432
would boom in value,
and many did,
1543
01:04:09,474 --> 01:04:13,019
with some coins 10-X-ing
or 100-X-ing in value.
1544
01:04:13,103 --> 01:04:14,938
Wall Street now
had competition.
1545
01:04:15,021 --> 01:04:17,565
You heard it here first!
Bitcoin is going to zero!
1546
01:04:17,607 --> 01:04:20,443
Hoback:
Virtually unregulated
competition.
1547
01:04:20,527 --> 01:04:22,529
Dogecoin to the moon!
1548
01:04:22,612 --> 01:04:24,114
(rapid beeping)
1549
01:04:24,155 --> 01:04:25,448
Hoback:
Which couldn't last.
1550
01:04:25,490 --> 01:04:28,618
(dramatic opera singing)
1551
01:04:32,831 --> 01:04:36,626
And now, the mark--
Oh! Ow! It went to zero!
1552
01:04:36,668 --> 01:04:38,795
Hoback:
By the end of the year,
the bubble burst louder
1553
01:04:38,837 --> 01:04:42,048
-than the stock market
did in the early 2000s.
-(screaming)
1554
01:04:42,132 --> 01:04:45,677
Bitcoin's value cut in half
from its all-time high,
1555
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:47,512
with the crypto casino
1556
01:04:47,595 --> 01:04:51,099
just making the whole
industry seem stupid.
1557
01:04:51,182 --> 01:04:53,560
crypto investor:
It sucks. I mean, I've lost
1558
01:04:53,643 --> 01:04:55,395
over $100,000 right now.
1559
01:04:55,478 --> 01:04:58,106
Yo! The motherfucking coins
are dipping!
1560
01:04:58,148 --> 01:05:00,567
Why is the price falling so low?
1561
01:05:00,650 --> 01:05:02,610
I've never cried so much
1562
01:05:02,694 --> 01:05:05,196
in my grown-ass adult life.
1563
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:07,490
It hurts. Um...
1564
01:05:08,616 --> 01:05:09,659
Yeah.
1565
01:05:09,826 --> 01:05:12,454
Nouriel Roubini:
These shitcoins,
they were outright scams
1566
01:05:12,537 --> 01:05:14,164
and frauds.
If there were real shitcoins,
1567
01:05:14,247 --> 01:05:17,834
you could use them as manure
to fertilize food.
1568
01:05:17,917 --> 01:05:20,837
I would rather buy shit,
literally shit,
1569
01:05:20,879 --> 01:05:23,340
that's worth something,
is a good fertilizer,
1570
01:05:23,423 --> 01:05:24,507
than buying shitcoins.
1571
01:05:24,799 --> 01:05:27,552
Hoback:
So, how could Bitcoin
separate itself from the pack?
1572
01:05:27,635 --> 01:05:29,095
choir:
♪ Hallelujah ♪
1573
01:05:29,179 --> 01:05:31,431
The answer was
Bitcoin maximalism.
1574
01:05:31,514 --> 01:05:33,558
Bitcoin is perfect.
It's perfect money.
1575
01:05:33,641 --> 01:05:35,352
singer:
♪ Hallelujah ♪
1576
01:05:35,393 --> 01:05:36,936
Hoback:
It was salvation
from the shitcoins.
1577
01:05:37,020 --> 01:05:39,397
A gift from on high.
1578
01:05:39,481 --> 01:05:42,150
Bitcoin is what they call
the Immaculate Conception.
1579
01:05:42,192 --> 01:05:44,569
Hoback:
The cure to all
the world's problems.
1580
01:05:44,652 --> 01:05:47,906
This idea that Bitcoin
was born perfect, you know?
1581
01:05:47,989 --> 01:05:50,116
It just, like, emerged
from the mind of Satoshi,
1582
01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:52,619
almost like a gift
that was received from God,
1583
01:05:52,702 --> 01:05:55,830
and just, like,
perfectly articulated
into the white paper,
1584
01:05:55,872 --> 01:05:57,123
and then into the code.
1585
01:05:57,207 --> 01:05:58,249
That's a complete myth.
1586
01:05:58,416 --> 01:06:00,502
Hoback:
So Bitcoin's greatest "virtue"
1587
01:06:00,543 --> 01:06:03,046
became that
it was already perfect,
1588
01:06:03,129 --> 01:06:06,549
reinforcing that it could
never fundamentally change.
1589
01:06:06,591 --> 01:06:10,303
Which created an opening
for its greatest competition.
1590
01:06:10,762 --> 01:06:12,889
Ethereum, a coin which was
1591
01:06:12,972 --> 01:06:15,016
Bitcoin's opposite
in almost every way,
1592
01:06:15,058 --> 01:06:17,727
including having
a very prominent founder.
1593
01:06:17,811 --> 01:06:20,271
-Why the hat?
-Oh, yeah...
1594
01:06:20,355 --> 01:06:21,439
For mosquitoes?
1595
01:06:21,648 --> 01:06:23,692
(speaking English)
1596
01:06:25,902 --> 01:06:27,987
So, Bitcoin is a blockchain
1597
01:06:28,071 --> 01:06:29,948
that's designed
for one application.
1598
01:06:30,031 --> 01:06:33,743
-The hat makes you
even more... conspicious.
-(Buterin mutters)
1599
01:06:33,785 --> 01:06:35,620
Vitalik Buterin:
Ethereum basically
will let people do
1600
01:06:35,704 --> 01:06:38,081
whatever thing that they want
to do on top of it.
1601
01:06:38,123 --> 01:06:40,166
Hoback:
Like NFTs,
1602
01:06:40,250 --> 01:06:42,627
which are basically just...
whatever fucking shit
1603
01:06:42,711 --> 01:06:44,170
stored on a blockchain.
1604
01:06:44,254 --> 01:06:46,631
-We're part of the same
community. We're both apes.
-I know. Yes, love it.
1605
01:06:46,715 --> 01:06:49,426
Hoback:
Some people paid
ungodly amounts for these.
1606
01:06:50,593 --> 01:06:53,346
The Ethereum team even made
their announcements
1607
01:06:53,430 --> 01:06:56,224
-through... rap.
-(hip-hop music playing)
1608
01:06:56,266 --> 01:06:58,727
♪ Yo, not just a pre-compiler
change of op-codes ♪
1609
01:06:58,768 --> 01:07:01,479
♪ We're here to sustain
the scale of our full nodes ♪
1610
01:07:01,563 --> 01:07:03,815
♪ Proof-of-stake is hard,
but what I do know ♪
1611
01:07:03,898 --> 01:07:06,776
♪ Is when we learn to shard
we'll change
the whole game though ♪
1612
01:07:06,818 --> 01:07:09,487
Back: I mean, that was
super embarrassing, right?
1613
01:07:09,571 --> 01:07:10,655
-Yeah.
-(laughter)
1614
01:07:10,739 --> 01:07:12,073
Proof of cringe or something.
1615
01:07:12,115 --> 01:07:13,908
-(Prince Philip laughs)
-That was pretty bad.
1616
01:07:13,950 --> 01:07:16,870
Hoback:
Naturally, Bitcoin maximalists
hate Ethereum.
1617
01:07:16,953 --> 01:07:19,539
But then, what do you do
with Ethereum?
You make more shitcoins.
1618
01:07:19,622 --> 01:07:22,083
It went from
10,000 coins to 20,000 coins
1619
01:07:22,167 --> 01:07:24,461
in actually not that long
of a period of time.
1620
01:07:24,544 --> 01:07:26,296
The Scambrian explosion.
1621
01:07:26,338 --> 01:07:29,716
-(laughter)
-(somber music playing)
1622
01:07:29,799 --> 01:07:32,844
Hoback:
But, the so-called
Scambrian explosion
1623
01:07:32,927 --> 01:07:35,805
had a serious side effect.
1624
01:07:35,889 --> 01:07:38,016
China now had
the excuse it needed
1625
01:07:38,099 --> 01:07:40,894
to ban all crypto currencies,
1626
01:07:40,977 --> 01:07:42,979
so that they could
launch their own.
1627
01:07:43,021 --> 01:07:45,690
China's currency
is going digital,
1628
01:07:45,774 --> 01:07:48,443
known as e-Chinese yuan.
1629
01:07:48,485 --> 01:07:52,155
Hoback:
It was basically
a government-backed shitcoin.
1630
01:07:52,238 --> 01:07:54,199
Their digital currency
was inflationary,
1631
01:07:54,282 --> 01:07:56,951
their government had
total control of your wallet,
1632
01:07:57,035 --> 01:07:58,745
and it took Bitcoin's
privacy problems
1633
01:07:58,828 --> 01:08:00,372
and turned them into a feature.
1634
01:08:00,455 --> 01:08:03,291
speaker:
The People's Bank of China
is gonna be able
1635
01:08:03,333 --> 01:08:06,670
to peer inside of
every single transaction.
1636
01:08:06,753 --> 01:08:10,173
So, they're building
everything to be monitored.
1637
01:08:10,256 --> 01:08:12,050
(crowd clamoring)
1638
01:08:12,133 --> 01:08:14,177
So, there were protests
in Hong Kong.
1639
01:08:14,219 --> 01:08:15,303
And what people had to do
1640
01:08:15,345 --> 01:08:16,930
was buy their subway tickets
with cash.
1641
01:08:17,013 --> 01:08:18,848
-They couldn't use their card.
-Hoback: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
1642
01:08:18,932 --> 01:08:20,183
Mow:
Because then you can be traced
1643
01:08:20,266 --> 01:08:21,685
that you went to the protests.
1644
01:08:21,726 --> 01:08:23,311
So, it's a very dangerous thing.
1645
01:08:23,353 --> 01:08:26,398
Hoback:
It's what's known as a CBDC,
1646
01:08:26,481 --> 01:08:28,983
or central bank
digital currency.
1647
01:08:29,025 --> 01:08:31,444
With Bitcoin, it still takes
some digging
1648
01:08:31,528 --> 01:08:33,405
to figure out who owns what.
1649
01:08:33,488 --> 01:08:35,448
And if you're careful,
or you're Satoshi
1650
01:08:35,532 --> 01:08:38,702
-and never spend your coins,
you can stay hidden.
-(whoosh)
1651
01:08:38,785 --> 01:08:41,913
But, with CBDCs, your identity
is known to the government
1652
01:08:41,996 --> 01:08:44,457
and your wallet controlled.
1653
01:08:44,541 --> 01:08:46,960
In other words,
Satoshi's invention
1654
01:08:47,043 --> 01:08:50,422
had given rise to the very
thing it aimed to prevent.
1655
01:08:51,381 --> 01:08:55,719
-(money rustling)
-What would happen if other
countries followed suit?
1656
01:08:58,513 --> 01:09:02,225
But, the Maxis were convinced
that Bitcoin would win the day,
1657
01:09:02,308 --> 01:09:04,144
putting their faith on display
1658
01:09:04,227 --> 01:09:06,813
by pilgrimaging to a massive
yearly conference.
1659
01:09:06,896 --> 01:09:08,523
And it's ridiculous.
1660
01:09:08,565 --> 01:09:11,818
-(upbeat music playing)
-(crowd cheering)
1661
01:09:13,570 --> 01:09:15,864
I'll die on this hill,
but they can't stop this idea.
1662
01:09:15,905 --> 01:09:18,658
Maxi:
That bright orange future
that is Bitcoin...
1663
01:09:18,742 --> 01:09:22,078
We are the vanguard
of a new monetary system.
1664
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:23,246
(cheering)
1665
01:09:23,329 --> 01:09:25,498
Yo! Yo! Yo! Bitcoin!
1666
01:09:25,582 --> 01:09:28,793
I am more bullish
than ever on Bitcoin.
1667
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:30,128
(music stops)
1668
01:09:30,211 --> 01:09:32,130
Hoback:
It's like you're in
some sort of cult.
1669
01:09:32,213 --> 01:09:34,424
(laughs) You're gonna
make me look bad.
1670
01:09:34,466 --> 01:09:37,802
-(crowd cheering)
-I have Senator Indira Kempis
1671
01:09:37,886 --> 01:09:39,429
to give an update on Mexico.
1672
01:09:39,512 --> 01:09:42,307
Indira Kempis:
67 million people
are not included
1673
01:09:42,390 --> 01:09:43,600
in our financial system.
1674
01:09:43,683 --> 01:09:46,436
As the president of Madeira,
I believe in Bitcoin.
1675
01:09:46,478 --> 01:09:49,147
Bitcoin, within Prospera,
1676
01:09:49,230 --> 01:09:51,149
operates as legal tender.
1677
01:09:51,232 --> 01:09:53,818
I'll make a small announcement.
1678
01:09:54,527 --> 01:09:57,489
I have a new Bitcoin
company called Jan3.
1679
01:09:58,156 --> 01:10:00,116
I decided to leave Blockstream
1680
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:02,285
and focus more on
nation-state Bitcoin adoption.
1681
01:10:02,369 --> 01:10:05,330
Hoback: So, were
they feeling the pressure?
1682
01:10:05,413 --> 01:10:06,664
(gallery chatter)
1683
01:10:06,748 --> 01:10:09,334
I guess Bitcoin doesn't
adopt itself, right?
1684
01:10:09,417 --> 01:10:12,712
-Well, I want it to go faster.
-(Back laughs)
1685
01:10:12,796 --> 01:10:15,507
Back:
So, uh, your company name, 3Jan?
1686
01:10:15,590 --> 01:10:18,051
-Jan3.
-So, explain why 3Jan?
1687
01:10:18,134 --> 01:10:20,470
January 3, 2009.
1688
01:10:20,553 --> 01:10:21,805
That was the start
of Bitcoin, was it?
1689
01:10:21,846 --> 01:10:23,473
-Well, that's the
Genesis Block, right?
-Okay!
1690
01:10:23,515 --> 01:10:25,183
Every year, it's Jan 3
is the anniversary
1691
01:10:25,266 --> 01:10:27,686
-of the Genesis Block.
-Alright, yeah, you're good
on the anniversaries.
1692
01:10:27,769 --> 01:10:29,938
Hoback:
Samson was telling me there was
another anniversary recently
1693
01:10:29,979 --> 01:10:33,692
-that I did not know of.
-Yeah, uh, Adam's birthday
on April 5th.
1694
01:10:34,192 --> 01:10:35,235
(awkward laugh)
1695
01:10:35,735 --> 01:10:37,362
-That's not my birthday.
-Inside joke.
1696
01:10:37,445 --> 01:10:40,073
-Is it? Very well.
-It's an inside joke.
1697
01:10:40,156 --> 01:10:41,616
Hoback:
April 5th
1698
01:10:41,658 --> 01:10:44,285
was Satoshi's
supposed birthday.
1699
01:10:44,369 --> 01:10:47,330
-Mow: She wants to take
a photo with her artwork.
-Back: Okay.
1700
01:10:47,372 --> 01:10:49,666
-It has no sleeve, right?
-No.
1701
01:10:49,708 --> 01:10:51,376
-It's a cloak? Alright.
-It's a cloak.
1702
01:10:51,459 --> 01:10:54,295
-(shutters snapping, laughter)
-You guys are having fun now.
1703
01:10:56,673 --> 01:10:58,842
So, he thinks that
you're Satoshi.
1704
01:10:58,883 --> 01:11:00,593
I hope he doesn't. (laughs)
1705
01:11:00,677 --> 01:11:02,846
I tried to explain to him
specifically that I'm not.
1706
01:11:02,887 --> 01:11:04,973
Hoback:
I said that you can
make a case for Adam,
1707
01:11:05,056 --> 01:11:06,307
and you can make
a strong case,
1708
01:11:06,391 --> 01:11:07,851
but it doesn't mean
that I'm convinced.
1709
01:11:07,934 --> 01:11:09,978
No, Satoshi was a team.
1710
01:11:10,061 --> 01:11:11,104
♪♪
1711
01:11:11,187 --> 01:11:12,856
(laughing)
1712
01:11:12,897 --> 01:11:14,149
Just kidding. Just kidding.
1713
01:11:14,232 --> 01:11:16,860
Hoback:
Even with the breakup,
I was a little surprised
1714
01:11:16,901 --> 01:11:20,739
he was trolling Adam this hard
about being Satoshi.
1715
01:11:21,197 --> 01:11:24,075
-(Back speaking)
-(laughter)
1716
01:11:24,868 --> 01:11:27,037
Hoback:
Yeah, yeah, as long as
the troll is on your side.
1717
01:11:27,078 --> 01:11:29,956
(Back speaking)
1718
01:11:34,169 --> 01:11:36,421
(soft music playing)
1719
01:11:38,965 --> 01:11:40,925
(upbeat music playing)
1720
01:11:42,385 --> 01:11:44,095
-(items clatter)
-Mow: Oh, boy.
1721
01:11:44,554 --> 01:11:47,182
-(plane humming)
-Hoback: The US had more
or less fought wars
1722
01:11:47,265 --> 01:11:48,767
to maintain the status
of the dollar
1723
01:11:48,850 --> 01:11:50,518
as the global
reserve currency.
1724
01:11:50,602 --> 01:11:52,228
-Let's order a coffee.
-Okay.
1725
01:11:52,270 --> 01:11:53,646
Hoback:
How might they react
1726
01:11:53,730 --> 01:11:55,565
if more countries
adopted Bitcoin?
1727
01:11:55,607 --> 01:11:56,608
Mow:
I'm not gonna lie.
1728
01:11:56,691 --> 01:11:57,901
You're probably gonna
get some heat
1729
01:11:58,026 --> 01:12:00,737
because the powers that be
don't want this to happen.
1730
01:12:00,779 --> 01:12:03,782
Prince Philip:
All currencies
will turn to one.
1731
01:12:03,865 --> 01:12:04,616
Bitcoin.
1732
01:12:04,699 --> 01:12:06,117
Things change very quickly.
1733
01:12:06,201 --> 01:12:09,245
Tucker, I just wanna say hi.
You're doing an excellent job.
1734
01:12:09,287 --> 01:12:11,206
That's my card. (laughs)
1735
01:12:11,289 --> 01:12:14,084
-I'm the crazy prince
that's talking about Bitcoin.
-(laughs)
1736
01:12:14,125 --> 01:12:16,419
But, you know how it is.
They-- First, they laugh at you.
1737
01:12:16,503 --> 01:12:18,296
(indistinct chatter)
1738
01:12:18,380 --> 01:12:19,714
Stealth mode.
1739
01:12:19,756 --> 01:12:22,092
That's not stealth.
That's a Canada hoodie.
1740
01:12:22,133 --> 01:12:24,469
(Prince Philip speaking English)
1741
01:12:27,889 --> 01:12:29,766
Jack Dorsey: What Bitcoin
does to societies,
1742
01:12:29,849 --> 01:12:32,018
what it does to people's
relationship with money,
1743
01:12:32,102 --> 01:12:35,647
to the state, to each other,
it literally changes everything.
1744
01:12:36,398 --> 01:12:38,650
Hoback:
But, what path would it take?
1745
01:12:38,733 --> 01:12:40,568
♪♪
1746
01:12:40,610 --> 01:12:43,405
Today, Bitcoin takes
yet another turn lower.
1747
01:12:43,446 --> 01:12:45,490
This is a Bitcoin emergency.
1748
01:12:45,573 --> 01:12:48,284
Complete free fall.
Anything can happen.
1749
01:12:48,326 --> 01:12:49,953
(thunder rumbles)
1750
01:12:50,036 --> 01:12:52,831
There's a crisis. You've got
reporters calling you right now.
1751
01:12:52,914 --> 01:12:55,792
-(boat rumbling)
-What are you telling them?
1752
01:12:56,334 --> 01:12:58,628
Well, I mean,
people look at the short term,
1753
01:12:58,670 --> 01:13:00,964
and the news cycle
is, like, day by day.
1754
01:13:01,047 --> 01:13:04,384
But, Bitcoin has been around
for, like, over a decade.
1755
01:13:04,801 --> 01:13:05,927
(thunder cracks)
1756
01:13:06,261 --> 01:13:07,512
(Hoback speaking)
1757
01:13:07,804 --> 01:13:09,264
-(boat captain speaking)
-Yeah.
1758
01:13:09,305 --> 01:13:11,307
-That's pretty cool.
-(murmuring)
1759
01:13:11,391 --> 01:13:13,143
(Hoback speaking)
1760
01:13:13,184 --> 01:13:14,436
(boat captain speaking)
1761
01:13:16,688 --> 01:13:18,440
Hoback:
Unfortunately for him,
1762
01:13:18,523 --> 01:13:19,816
amidst this crash,
1763
01:13:19,899 --> 01:13:23,153
Luna was a shitcoin
that really hit the fan.
1764
01:13:23,236 --> 01:13:24,362
(Hoback speaking)
1765
01:13:24,821 --> 01:13:27,490
-He had it.
-Yes. (laughs)
1766
01:13:27,532 --> 01:13:29,242
Hoback:
Looking like a Ponzi scheme...
1767
01:13:29,325 --> 01:13:30,493
You're looking at
a similar scale
1768
01:13:30,535 --> 01:13:31,786
to the Madoff Ponzi.
1769
01:13:31,828 --> 01:13:33,830
Hoback:
...after million-dollar
Ponzi scheme...
1770
01:13:33,913 --> 01:13:36,166
Celsius is being
accused of functioning
1771
01:13:36,249 --> 01:13:37,459
like a Ponzi scheme.
1772
01:13:37,542 --> 01:13:39,044
Hoback:
...this was their founder.
1773
01:13:39,127 --> 01:13:42,339
Who would be crazy enough
to give their coins,
1774
01:13:42,380 --> 01:13:44,883
their crypto, to somebody
who's not a bank?
1775
01:13:44,966 --> 01:13:48,136
Hoback:
But the people who trusted
this guy with their crypto,
1776
01:13:48,178 --> 01:13:49,512
they lost billions.
1777
01:13:49,596 --> 01:13:52,015
This is bullshit!
I gave you my goddamn money!
1778
01:13:52,098 --> 01:13:54,726
I want it back!
What the fuck is going on?!
1779
01:13:54,809 --> 01:13:56,728
Jim Cramer:
Cryptocurrencies of all kinds
1780
01:13:56,811 --> 01:13:59,481
are still cascading
with no real bottom in sight.
1781
01:13:59,522 --> 01:14:01,858
-(thunder cracks)
-Hoback: Is lightning serious?
1782
01:14:01,900 --> 01:14:02,942
(boat roaring)
1783
01:14:03,026 --> 01:14:05,195
Uh, I guess we're-we're
getting the hell outta here.
1784
01:14:05,278 --> 01:14:08,198
But, this storm wasn't over.
1785
01:14:08,239 --> 01:14:09,699
FTX shocked investors
1786
01:14:09,783 --> 01:14:11,242
by declaring
bankruptcy this week.
1787
01:14:11,326 --> 01:14:15,497
It spent millions making sure
its name was seen and known.
1788
01:14:15,580 --> 01:14:18,750
Hoback:
Sam Bankman-Fried,
known as SBF,
1789
01:14:18,833 --> 01:14:21,753
was the young, disheveled CEO
of a massive US-based
1790
01:14:21,836 --> 01:14:24,047
crypto exchange called FTX.
1791
01:14:24,130 --> 01:14:26,466
FTX? It's a safe and easy way
to get into crypto.
1792
01:14:26,549 --> 01:14:28,051
Eh, I don't think so.
1793
01:14:28,093 --> 01:14:31,262
Hoback:
He defrauded customers
and stole billions.
1794
01:14:31,805 --> 01:14:33,723
reporter:
This is worse than Theranos.
1795
01:14:33,807 --> 01:14:35,517
This is worse than Madoff.
1796
01:14:36,226 --> 01:14:38,937
Hoback:
And although he donated to
a lot of politicians
1797
01:14:39,020 --> 01:14:39,896
and charities...
1798
01:14:39,979 --> 01:14:41,815
If I can do anything
to help other people,
1799
01:14:41,898 --> 01:14:43,274
help the world,
that's just as good.
1800
01:14:43,566 --> 01:14:46,778
Hoback:
...he didn't manage to bribe
his way out of being arrested.
1801
01:14:46,861 --> 01:14:49,614
The fraud they committed
was worse than the Enron mess,
1802
01:14:49,698 --> 01:14:52,659
according to the guy
who cleaned up the Enron mess.
1803
01:14:52,742 --> 01:14:54,077
They used QuickBooks.
1804
01:14:54,119 --> 01:14:56,788
Multi-billion-dollar company
using QuickBooks.
1805
01:14:56,871 --> 01:14:59,249
Back:
The regulators, when they
see something losing...
1806
01:14:59,290 --> 01:15:00,583
(thunder cracks)
1807
01:15:00,625 --> 01:15:02,544
...$60 billion of retail money,
1808
01:15:02,627 --> 01:15:04,462
then, of course, they're gonna
have something to say.
1809
01:15:04,546 --> 01:15:05,755
Hoback:
Yeah, alright, let's get out.
1810
01:15:05,839 --> 01:15:07,966
The Secretary of the Treasury,
Janet Yellen,
1811
01:15:08,049 --> 01:15:09,801
began acting on
an executive order
1812
01:15:09,884 --> 01:15:13,763
that Biden had signed to
rein in the crypto industry.
1813
01:15:13,805 --> 01:15:16,057
There are risks to
financial stability,
1814
01:15:16,099 --> 01:15:17,475
and we need a framework.
1815
01:15:17,642 --> 01:15:20,311
Hoback:
But, what would this mean
for Bitcoin?
1816
01:15:21,104 --> 01:15:23,898
Just because you're paranoid
doesn't mean they're
not out to get you.
1817
01:15:24,524 --> 01:15:26,776
It's actually more realistic
than you think.
1818
01:15:28,069 --> 01:15:31,573
-(planes idling)
-Hello, Melina.
Good to see you again.
1819
01:15:31,614 --> 01:15:33,616
Hoback:
Samson returned to El Salvador,
1820
01:15:33,700 --> 01:15:35,326
where the President
was facing increased
1821
01:15:35,410 --> 01:15:38,538
international pressure
for having adopted Bitcoin.
1822
01:15:38,621 --> 01:15:40,206
The attacks are increasing.
1823
01:15:40,290 --> 01:15:42,167
This rating agency
just downgraded
1824
01:15:42,250 --> 01:15:43,668
El Salvador's long-term debt.
1825
01:15:43,752 --> 01:15:45,337
They're trying to put
the pressure on.
1826
01:15:45,420 --> 01:15:47,630
But, President
doesn't give a fuck.
1827
01:15:47,672 --> 01:15:49,299
Shepard Smith:
The International Monetary Fund
1828
01:15:49,382 --> 01:15:52,469
has urged El Salvador
to reverse course on Bitcoin.
1829
01:15:52,552 --> 01:15:53,845
In response, Bukele tweeted,
1830
01:15:53,928 --> 01:15:56,890
"Okay, boomers.
You have zero jurisdiction.
1831
01:15:56,973 --> 01:16:00,143
We are not your colony, your
backyard, or your front yard."
1832
01:16:00,185 --> 01:16:02,937
William Soriano:
The IMF has some
political control
1833
01:16:03,021 --> 01:16:05,607
over the countries
they assist.
1834
01:16:05,690 --> 01:16:07,984
And that's where
Bitcoin comes in.
1835
01:16:08,068 --> 01:16:09,652
The first time I saw him,
he was saying,
1836
01:16:09,736 --> 01:16:12,489
"We're ready to die
on this hill. All of us!
1837
01:16:12,572 --> 01:16:13,990
We're ready to die
on this hill."
1838
01:16:14,074 --> 01:16:16,785
Hoback:
Hope they were ready
because the powers that be
1839
01:16:16,826 --> 01:16:19,287
-had a plan of their own.
-(waves splashing)
1840
01:16:21,247 --> 01:16:22,040
(insects chirping)
1841
01:16:22,123 --> 01:16:24,542
Okay, yeah,
this is the news. So...
1842
01:16:25,418 --> 01:16:28,088
uh, MasterCard, Wells Fargo,
Citigroup, and others launch
1843
01:16:28,171 --> 01:16:30,507
a 12-week experimental
digital dollar pilot
1844
01:16:30,548 --> 01:16:32,550
with the New York Fed.
Did you see that?
1845
01:16:32,634 --> 01:16:35,220
I didn't see that.
So what, it's a CBDC?
1846
01:16:36,721 --> 01:16:38,181
Oh, interesting.
1847
01:16:40,183 --> 01:16:42,519
-Your plot is coming true.
-Can I give you this?
1848
01:16:42,602 --> 01:16:44,187
Mow:
Things are heating up.
1849
01:16:44,270 --> 01:16:46,523
Can I give you some fiat?
1850
01:16:46,606 --> 01:16:48,149
-(laughter)
-(curious music playing)
1851
01:16:48,233 --> 01:16:50,527
Hoback: Under the cover
of the FTX scandal,
1852
01:16:50,610 --> 01:16:51,820
the United States announced
1853
01:16:52,070 --> 01:16:56,074
it would explore remaking
the US Dollar as a CBDC.
1854
01:16:56,866 --> 01:16:59,869
You know, that thing that was
condemned by Western media
1855
01:16:59,953 --> 01:17:03,456
-and US politicians
over human rights issues.
-(crowd yelling)
1856
01:17:03,748 --> 01:17:06,584
The Chinese CBDC
is a surveillance tool.
1857
01:17:07,043 --> 01:17:09,838
Hoback:
But now, the West was
preparing to get on board.
1858
01:17:09,921 --> 01:17:12,048
The Fed even had
their own white paper.
1859
01:17:12,090 --> 01:17:14,050
Jerome Powell:
As our white paper
on this topic notes,
1860
01:17:14,134 --> 01:17:17,637
a US CBDC could also
potentially help maintain
1861
01:17:17,721 --> 01:17:19,139
the dollar's
international standing.
1862
01:17:19,222 --> 01:17:21,516
-Hoback: A digital dollar...
-(glitching)
1863
01:17:21,558 --> 01:17:24,394
...that could replace
cash entirely.
1864
01:17:24,436 --> 01:17:26,563
And they weren't alone.
1865
01:17:26,646 --> 01:17:28,106
♪♪
1866
01:17:28,356 --> 01:17:31,067
reporter:
60% of central banks
around the world
1867
01:17:31,151 --> 01:17:32,902
are currently experimenting
with CBDCs.
1868
01:17:32,986 --> 01:17:35,864
The CBDCs,
it's really or authoritarianism
1869
01:17:35,947 --> 01:17:37,866
from even Western governments.
1870
01:17:37,949 --> 01:17:41,286
On CBDCs, I have
pushed that project.
1871
01:17:41,369 --> 01:17:42,495
By 2030,
1872
01:17:42,579 --> 01:17:45,457
Britcoin,
a central bank digital currency,
1873
01:17:45,540 --> 01:17:46,624
will be up and running.
1874
01:17:47,042 --> 01:17:49,002
Hoback:
Why would a country
adopt Bitcoin
1875
01:17:49,085 --> 01:17:50,795
when a government could just
1876
01:17:50,879 --> 01:17:52,630
issue their own
digital currency
1877
01:17:52,714 --> 01:17:55,050
and have complete control?
1878
01:17:55,133 --> 01:17:57,385
Digital public money
could help drive out
1879
01:17:57,427 --> 01:17:59,262
bogus digital private money.
1880
01:17:59,346 --> 01:18:01,014
Ver: The technology
is tough to compete with,
1881
01:18:01,097 --> 01:18:02,807
so if you can't beat 'em,
you have to join 'em.
1882
01:18:03,058 --> 01:18:05,101
reporter:
It is potentially
the biggest change to money
1883
01:18:05,143 --> 01:18:06,144
since, I don't know,
1884
01:18:06,186 --> 01:18:08,438
currency consolidation
after the Civil War.
1885
01:18:08,480 --> 01:18:09,814
Roubini:
Once we have CBDCs,
1886
01:18:09,898 --> 01:18:12,025
they're gonna
essentially crowd out
1887
01:18:12,108 --> 01:18:13,943
any alternative
payment system.
1888
01:18:14,319 --> 01:18:16,613
So, the future
of payment transaction
1889
01:18:16,696 --> 01:18:18,782
is one bank,
run by the government
1890
01:18:18,823 --> 01:18:20,950
with some cooperation
of the private sector,
1891
01:18:20,992 --> 01:18:22,452
financial institutions.
1892
01:18:22,660 --> 01:18:26,331
Hoback:
So, banks might still manage
things like giving out loans.
1893
01:18:26,706 --> 01:18:27,999
But someday, our bank accounts
1894
01:18:28,083 --> 01:18:30,627
could be directly with the Fed?
1895
01:18:30,669 --> 01:18:32,128
They can surveil
all your transactions,
1896
01:18:32,212 --> 01:18:33,797
and they have
complete data monopoly.
1897
01:18:33,880 --> 01:18:36,800
Well, I think it's
a bit of a crossroads. (laughs)
1898
01:18:36,841 --> 01:18:39,010
It could become
extremely dystopian.
1899
01:18:39,094 --> 01:18:41,054
♪♪
1900
01:18:41,137 --> 01:18:42,847
Mow: There is a way
that you could do a CBDC
1901
01:18:42,931 --> 01:18:45,517
that is not... bad for people.
1902
01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:47,769
-But, the problem is
they don't want that.
-No, of course not.
1903
01:18:47,852 --> 01:18:49,312
They don't want the privacy.
1904
01:18:49,979 --> 01:18:52,148
Faster Bitcoin adoption means
1905
01:18:52,190 --> 01:18:55,443
the better off the world will be
when the shit hits the fan.
1906
01:18:56,653 --> 01:18:58,571
And the shit is hitting the fan.
1907
01:18:58,655 --> 01:19:00,740
(curious music playing)
1908
01:19:00,824 --> 01:19:03,660
Fallout continues
to grow from the collapse
1909
01:19:03,702 --> 01:19:05,662
of Silicon Valley Bank
and Signature Bank.
1910
01:19:05,745 --> 01:19:06,871
First Republic Bank,
1911
01:19:06,996 --> 01:19:10,166
second largest bank failure
in US history.
1912
01:19:10,208 --> 01:19:13,920
Hoback:
Following the pandemic,
the Fed printed a lot of money.
1913
01:19:14,379 --> 01:19:17,424
$13 trillion.
It triggered inflation
1914
01:19:17,507 --> 01:19:19,759
not seen in over 40 years.
1915
01:19:19,843 --> 01:19:22,387
Suddenly, banks had
risky balance sheets.
1916
01:19:22,470 --> 01:19:23,513
There were bank runs,
1917
01:19:23,596 --> 01:19:26,683
and four massive banks
were wiped out overnight.
1918
01:19:27,183 --> 01:19:29,644
Similar to what happened
in 2009,
1919
01:19:29,686 --> 01:19:31,396
the government stepped in
to prevent
1920
01:19:31,479 --> 01:19:32,981
a total financial meltdown.
1921
01:19:33,064 --> 01:19:35,442
I can reassure the members
of the committee
1922
01:19:35,525 --> 01:19:37,902
that our banking system
is sound.
1923
01:19:37,986 --> 01:19:39,529
Hoback:
Amid this crisis,
1924
01:19:39,571 --> 01:19:41,364
regulators seized
an opportunity.
1925
01:19:41,448 --> 01:19:43,408
Kathy Hochul:
New York State Department
of Financial Services
1926
01:19:43,491 --> 01:19:46,870
took possession of
a New York chartered bank,
1927
01:19:46,911 --> 01:19:48,705
known as Signature,
last night.
1928
01:19:48,788 --> 01:19:50,331
Hoback:
This was strange
1929
01:19:50,415 --> 01:19:53,084
because Signature Bank
wasn't actually insolvent.
1930
01:19:53,543 --> 01:19:57,756
Meanwhile, First Republic,
another bank that failed, was.
1931
01:19:58,298 --> 01:19:59,799
But instead of
shutting them down,
1932
01:19:59,883 --> 01:20:01,384
they got a full bail-out.
1933
01:20:02,052 --> 01:20:05,472
The difference, Signature was
the only major bank
1934
01:20:05,555 --> 01:20:07,932
servicing the crypto industry.
1935
01:20:08,016 --> 01:20:11,394
The regulators are sending a,
uh, a clear signal.
1936
01:20:11,436 --> 01:20:13,063
Stay, stay away from digital.
1937
01:20:13,480 --> 01:20:15,899
Hoback:
But, the next signal
would come in the form
1938
01:20:15,940 --> 01:20:17,901
of a familiar face.
1939
01:20:17,942 --> 01:20:20,695
So, Roger Ver, Bitcoin Jesus
1940
01:20:20,779 --> 01:20:22,655
was just arrested in Spain.
1941
01:20:22,739 --> 01:20:24,115
Roger had allegedly evaded
1942
01:20:24,199 --> 01:20:27,410
$48 million in Bitcoin taxes.
1943
01:20:27,494 --> 01:20:30,288
You can have your own
private bank account, right?
1944
01:20:30,372 --> 01:20:33,416
It's called a Bitcoin account,
and it's impossible
1945
01:20:33,458 --> 01:20:35,043
for the government
to seize your account.
1946
01:20:35,418 --> 01:20:37,921
Hoback:
But, it seems
they could extradite him,
1947
01:20:37,962 --> 01:20:40,548
even though he'd renounced
his US citizenship.
1948
01:20:41,925 --> 01:20:43,635
Todd: You know,
what you're really asking
1949
01:20:43,718 --> 01:20:45,095
is what's the endpoint
to the crackdowns.
1950
01:20:45,136 --> 01:20:47,013
This is an example
of regulators
1951
01:20:47,097 --> 01:20:49,265
who cannot actually do
what they want to do,
1952
01:20:49,349 --> 01:20:51,434
-which was just go ban Bitcoin.
-Back: Right.
1953
01:20:51,476 --> 01:20:54,104
Instead, they apply pressure
in this sort of alternative way
1954
01:20:54,187 --> 01:20:56,773
to go do something they're
not really allowed to do.
1955
01:20:56,815 --> 01:20:58,692
They fired all
the missiles now, right?
1956
01:20:58,775 --> 01:21:01,277
They-They've sued
the biggest exchanges.
1957
01:21:01,319 --> 01:21:02,862
They've made
all the allegations.
1958
01:21:02,946 --> 01:21:06,533
Hoback:
But, the big banks and the
government weren't done yet.
1959
01:21:07,158 --> 01:21:09,285
Dimon:
Crypto, Bitcoin, etc.
1960
01:21:09,369 --> 01:21:11,121
If I was the government,
I'd close it down.
1961
01:21:11,204 --> 01:21:12,664
We've got a way to do this!
1962
01:21:12,747 --> 01:21:16,167
Hoback:
So, Senator Warren
introduced a bipartisan bill
1963
01:21:16,251 --> 01:21:17,794
that would essentially
make it illegal
1964
01:21:17,877 --> 01:21:20,130
to use Bitcoin
like digital cash.
1965
01:21:20,213 --> 01:21:21,923
Asked if they would
support this,
1966
01:21:21,965 --> 01:21:23,800
the banks seemed delighted.
1967
01:21:23,842 --> 01:21:25,468
-Let's go on down the line.
-Absolutely.
1968
01:21:25,510 --> 01:21:27,679
-banker 1: Absolutely.
-banker 2: Absolutely.
1969
01:21:27,762 --> 01:21:29,097
banker 3:
Absolutely.
1970
01:21:29,180 --> 01:21:31,141
-Absolutely, Senator.
-Okay, I like absolutely!
1971
01:21:31,182 --> 01:21:34,477
Hoback:
But Wall Street had a plan.
1972
01:21:34,519 --> 01:21:36,104
Let's get it inside
the regulated system
1973
01:21:36,146 --> 01:21:37,522
as much as, as we can.
1974
01:21:37,605 --> 01:21:40,275
Hoback:
Bitcoin would be traded
on the stock market,
1975
01:21:40,316 --> 01:21:41,985
but you wouldn't
actually own it.
1976
01:21:42,068 --> 01:21:45,447
The banks and hedge funds,
they would hold it for you.
1977
01:21:45,488 --> 01:21:47,240
This is the day
where it goes from malarkey
1978
01:21:47,323 --> 01:21:48,950
to actually
an investable asset.
1979
01:21:48,992 --> 01:21:52,746
Hoback:
Bitcoin would now be a part of
retirement funds and pensions.
1980
01:21:52,829 --> 01:21:55,582
Put Bitcoin in their 401(k)s.
1981
01:21:55,665 --> 01:21:58,209
Hoback:
Solidifying its role
as digital gold.
1982
01:21:59,961 --> 01:22:02,839
♪♪
1983
01:22:02,881 --> 01:22:04,341
It seemed so long as Bitcoin
1984
01:22:04,424 --> 01:22:07,344
didn't compete
with the US dollar,
1985
01:22:07,385 --> 01:22:10,180
so long as governments could
monitor every transaction...
1986
01:22:10,221 --> 01:22:12,349
Let's do
a central bank digital currency.
1987
01:22:12,432 --> 01:22:13,683
Are you there?
1988
01:22:13,725 --> 01:22:15,060
Yes, I think it's time.
1989
01:22:15,393 --> 01:22:19,564
Hoback:
...so long as Bitcoin didn't
function like digital cash,
1990
01:22:19,647 --> 01:22:21,399
it would be allowed.
1991
01:22:21,483 --> 01:22:23,026
Because
the Small Blocker solution
1992
01:22:23,109 --> 01:22:25,028
kind of required
government permission.
1993
01:22:25,111 --> 01:22:27,864
Taaki:
Those people who are like,
"We need Bitcoin
1994
01:22:27,906 --> 01:22:29,699
"to become, like,
well-established,
1995
01:22:29,783 --> 01:22:31,618
become accepted by the banks,"
1996
01:22:31,701 --> 01:22:34,371
they didn't realize that they
were, like, cutting this deal
1997
01:22:34,454 --> 01:22:36,873
which would compromise
some Bitcoin's values.
1998
01:22:36,956 --> 01:22:40,210
Hoback: In fact,
Maxis seemed more concerned
1999
01:22:40,293 --> 01:22:41,670
with Bitcoin
hitting a million dollars
2000
01:22:41,753 --> 01:22:43,129
than being usable as cash.
2001
01:22:43,213 --> 01:22:45,048
Mow:
To get to one million,
we should be going up,
2002
01:22:45,131 --> 01:22:47,050
on average, 10k a day.
2003
01:22:47,550 --> 01:22:49,719
Hoback:
And if Bitcoin hits
a million dollars,
2004
01:22:49,803 --> 01:22:51,721
then Satoshi becomes
a trillionaire.
2005
01:22:51,805 --> 01:22:54,182
O'Leary:
And there has been rumors
2006
01:22:54,224 --> 01:22:55,934
that maybe Satoshi
will weigh in.
2007
01:22:56,017 --> 01:22:58,144
Hoback:
With the stakes so high,
2008
01:22:58,228 --> 01:23:00,021
and with Bitcoin
being woven into
2009
01:23:00,105 --> 01:23:02,107
the fabric of
the financial system,
2010
01:23:02,190 --> 01:23:04,317
affecting everyone,
2011
01:23:04,401 --> 01:23:06,986
perhaps the question
of Satoshi's identity
2012
01:23:07,070 --> 01:23:09,906
was more pressing than ever.
2013
01:23:09,948 --> 01:23:13,201
(dramatic music playing)
2014
01:23:18,081 --> 01:23:19,499
(tense sting)
2015
01:23:21,084 --> 01:23:23,336
(birds flapping)
2016
01:23:32,929 --> 01:23:34,848
Peter's never taken you
on one of his...
2017
01:23:35,223 --> 01:23:38,476
-caving adventures before, Adam?
-No.
2018
01:23:39,978 --> 01:23:41,980
Civilization's ruins, eh?
(laughs)
2019
01:23:42,063 --> 01:23:44,816
-Hoback: (laughs) Yeah.
-End days.
2020
01:23:44,899 --> 01:23:48,194
Hoback:
When you look out on all this,
uh, abandoned shit,
2021
01:23:48,278 --> 01:23:49,946
what does it
make you think of?
2022
01:23:49,988 --> 01:23:52,657
Maybe, um,
a more decentralized future?
2023
01:23:53,033 --> 01:23:54,784
Geopolitically.
2024
01:23:54,826 --> 01:23:57,454
There's something to be said
for not breaking what--
2025
01:23:57,495 --> 01:24:00,457
Todd:
There's something to be said
for exploring this great place.
2026
01:24:00,540 --> 01:24:01,958
-Back: Okay.
-Todd: Without dying.
2027
01:24:02,042 --> 01:24:03,835
(Todd laughs)
2028
01:24:04,836 --> 01:24:08,506
Hoback:
So, there's a lot of
things that point to you,
2029
01:24:08,590 --> 01:24:10,550
Adam, being Satoshi,
2030
01:24:10,633 --> 01:24:14,137
and I had been spending some
time trying to disprove that.
2031
01:24:14,220 --> 01:24:15,722
You know,
like the Wikipedia edits?
2032
01:24:15,805 --> 01:24:18,141
Back:
It was because I was like,
why are you deleting this?
2033
01:24:18,224 --> 01:24:20,560
Bitcoin is a big deal. It's like
a clever invention, right?
2034
01:24:20,643 --> 01:24:23,646
Hoback:
You added suspects for Satoshi.
2035
01:24:23,730 --> 01:24:25,231
-Really?
-Hoback: Yeah.
2036
01:24:25,315 --> 01:24:27,817
Well, don't-don't just
agree with him. Ask for a proof.
2037
01:24:27,859 --> 01:24:30,695
That doesn't seem like something
very advisable to do.
2038
01:24:32,030 --> 01:24:33,281
There's, like,
old emails with you
2039
01:24:33,615 --> 01:24:36,701
commenting on Bitcoin
in pretty detailed terms.
2040
01:24:36,785 --> 01:24:38,578
-I mean--
-Hoback: It doesn't mean
that you're Satoshi.
2041
01:24:38,661 --> 01:24:40,455
-It just means that you were...
-Yeah. Well, I think--
2042
01:24:40,497 --> 01:24:42,374
Hoback:
...you were engaged before you
say you were engaged.
2043
01:24:42,457 --> 01:24:44,918
Anyway, like, you're missing
the biggest piece of evidence
2044
01:24:45,001 --> 01:24:46,378
that he's Satoshi of all.
2045
01:24:46,461 --> 01:24:48,254
Which is that he gets
on the Bitcoin Talk
2046
01:24:48,338 --> 01:24:50,173
in, what, 2012 or so? 2013?
2047
01:24:50,256 --> 01:24:52,008
-'13. Mm.
-Yeah, '13.
2048
01:24:52,092 --> 01:24:53,093
And, like, he's clueless!
2049
01:24:53,176 --> 01:24:54,552
Doesn't know anything
about Bitcoin!
2050
01:24:55,095 --> 01:24:56,513
Hoback:
This wasn't the first time
2051
01:24:56,596 --> 01:24:58,306
Peter had pointed
to this evidence.
2052
01:24:58,348 --> 01:25:00,266
Best evidence of him
being Satoshi.
2053
01:25:00,350 --> 01:25:02,268
-Of not being Satoshi.
-Todd: Being Satoshi.
2054
01:25:02,352 --> 01:25:05,855
Hoback: So, was his goal
to out Adam as Satoshi?
2055
01:25:05,897 --> 01:25:08,858
It's hard to know, right?
These agencies are sneaky.
2056
01:25:08,900 --> 01:25:12,195
Hoback:
Months earlier, I began
looking into Peter Todd,
2057
01:25:12,237 --> 01:25:14,406
trying to understand
his motives.
2058
01:25:14,489 --> 01:25:17,033
In particular, I'd focused
on the leaked email exchange
2059
01:25:17,117 --> 01:25:20,328
between Peter Todd
and John Dillon,
2060
01:25:20,370 --> 01:25:22,622
the supposed government agent
who had offered Peter
2061
01:25:22,706 --> 01:25:26,292
that ridiculous $500 reward
to create replace-by-fee.
2062
01:25:26,376 --> 01:25:29,087
John Dillon's email
had supposedly been hacked,
2063
01:25:29,170 --> 01:25:31,214
and their emails were leaked.
2064
01:25:31,256 --> 01:25:33,091
I wanna talk through the stuff
2065
01:25:33,174 --> 01:25:34,718
we were going over
the other night.
2066
01:25:34,759 --> 01:25:37,137
So, I called up an editor
on my team
2067
01:25:37,220 --> 01:25:38,888
to talk through
some of these clues.
2068
01:25:38,930 --> 01:25:40,557
This is
an encrypted email chain,
2069
01:25:40,640 --> 01:25:43,393
and this is all you do
with the hack
2070
01:25:43,435 --> 01:25:46,938
is release something that makes
Peter Todd look pretty good?
2071
01:25:47,397 --> 01:25:51,026
Uh, that, to me, that's part
of what started to really...
2072
01:25:51,109 --> 01:25:54,320
smell like maybe it was
the same person.
2073
01:25:54,404 --> 01:25:55,822
Going through the archives,
2074
01:25:55,905 --> 01:25:57,907
I discovered
I wasn't alone.
2075
01:25:57,991 --> 01:26:01,202
Gavin Andresen and some
of the folks at Blockstream,
2076
01:26:01,244 --> 01:26:03,747
they also suspected
they were the same person.
2077
01:26:03,788 --> 01:26:06,541
-I mean, why did you
create the John Dillon handle?
-I didn't.
2078
01:26:06,583 --> 01:26:08,168
-(Back laughs)
-Hoback: Come on!
2079
01:26:08,251 --> 01:26:10,337
Nope. Not me.
2080
01:26:10,420 --> 01:26:13,173
Hoback:
He was playing bad cop.
You're playing good cop.
2081
01:26:13,256 --> 01:26:15,842
Back:
So, my theory about John Dillon
2082
01:26:15,925 --> 01:26:18,178
is that Peter just enjoys
perverse game theory.
2083
01:26:18,261 --> 01:26:20,930
I don't enjoy perverse
game theory that much.
2084
01:26:21,014 --> 01:26:22,182
Although it was
certainly interesting
2085
01:26:22,265 --> 01:26:23,391
to get contacted by the guy.
2086
01:26:23,933 --> 01:26:26,770
-Okay.
-I certainly enjoyed
it enough to respond to him.
2087
01:26:26,811 --> 01:26:30,315
-(film crew laughing wildly)
-Back: Mm-hmm.
2088
01:26:30,398 --> 01:26:32,817
-Okay.
-Hoback: The only person
who believes Peter is Peter.
2089
01:26:32,901 --> 01:26:34,402
Yeah,
that's how it should be.
2090
01:26:34,444 --> 01:26:36,654
Hoback:
If Peter Todd wasn't
communicating
2091
01:26:36,738 --> 01:26:39,532
with a government agent,
and he just made this shit up,
2092
01:26:39,866 --> 01:26:42,619
then why concoct
such an elaborate scheme?
2093
01:26:42,702 --> 01:26:45,246
So, I went through everything
I could find on Peter Todd,
2094
01:26:45,330 --> 01:26:46,956
going back to his
earliest messages
2095
01:26:46,998 --> 01:26:48,792
on the Bitcoin Talk forum.
2096
01:26:48,833 --> 01:26:50,043
Now, Peter likes to suggest
2097
01:26:50,126 --> 01:26:52,003
that he didn't really get
involved with Bitcoin until...
2098
01:26:52,087 --> 01:26:54,881
2014. That's when I sort of
"quit the day job," if you will.
2099
01:26:54,964 --> 01:26:56,758
Hoback:
But, he had registered
all the way back
2100
01:26:56,841 --> 01:26:58,802
in December of 2010.
2101
01:26:58,843 --> 01:26:59,844
The first thing he wrote
2102
01:26:59,928 --> 01:27:02,389
was just asking for
an invite to something.
2103
01:27:02,472 --> 01:27:04,766
But the next post,
a few days later,
2104
01:27:04,849 --> 01:27:06,309
was super technical.
2105
01:27:06,393 --> 01:27:09,646
And then, he doesn't
post again until 2012.
2106
01:27:10,355 --> 01:27:12,649
But, it's that
super technical post
2107
01:27:12,732 --> 01:27:17,445
that made me rethink
just about everything.
2108
01:27:17,487 --> 01:27:20,740
I was so taken aback,
I called my editor immediately.
2109
01:27:21,199 --> 01:27:24,494
Uh, so, I'm kind of embarrassed
I missed this.
2110
01:27:25,370 --> 01:27:28,957
So, his first post
is on December 7, 2010.
2111
01:27:28,998 --> 01:27:32,252
But then, three days later,
uh, he makes another post.
2112
01:27:32,669 --> 01:27:34,170
editor (on phone):
"Of course, to be specific,
2113
01:27:34,212 --> 01:27:36,339
"the inputs and outputs
can't match exactly
2114
01:27:36,423 --> 01:27:39,175
if the second transaction
has a transaction fee."
2115
01:27:39,217 --> 01:27:41,011
Seems like
he's responding to something.
2116
01:27:41,052 --> 01:27:42,637
(sighs) Yeah.
2117
01:27:43,513 --> 01:27:45,348
editor (on phone):
Oh, responding to Satoshi?
2118
01:27:45,432 --> 01:27:47,267
Hoback:
He's replying to Satoshi, yeah.
2119
01:27:47,350 --> 01:27:49,394
Yeah, like
an hour and a half later.
2120
01:27:50,562 --> 01:27:52,772
But, read it closely.
2121
01:27:53,314 --> 01:27:55,567
Is he responding, David?
2122
01:27:57,193 --> 01:27:59,362
Or is he continuing a thought?
2123
01:28:00,071 --> 01:28:02,615
(typing)
2124
01:28:08,872 --> 01:28:11,666
♪♪
2125
01:28:11,708 --> 01:28:16,254
So, Satoshi is proposing this,
like, future scheme
2126
01:28:16,338 --> 01:28:18,715
that hasn't been invented yet.
2127
01:28:18,757 --> 01:28:20,675
And Peter Todd
2128
01:28:20,759 --> 01:28:22,886
just kinda continues
that thought
2129
01:28:22,969 --> 01:28:24,596
an hour and a half later.
2130
01:28:25,263 --> 01:28:27,766
Someone who had
just created this account,
2131
01:28:27,849 --> 01:28:30,477
and never posted
about Bitcoin before,
2132
01:28:30,560 --> 01:28:33,396
was finishing
Satoshi's sentences?
2133
01:28:34,814 --> 01:28:37,317
With a deep fucking
knowledge of how,
2134
01:28:37,400 --> 01:28:39,903
wait for it,
replace-by-fee works.
2135
01:28:39,944 --> 01:28:41,654
That thing that Peter Todd
2136
01:28:41,738 --> 01:28:44,449
would one day invent
a character for.
2137
01:28:44,532 --> 01:28:46,242
It gets weirder though, David.
2138
01:28:46,326 --> 01:28:48,870
So, you know,
we've thought that, like,
2139
01:28:48,912 --> 01:28:52,499
Satoshi dropped off
of the Bitcoin Talk forums
2140
01:28:52,582 --> 01:28:54,501
because of WikiLeaks, right?
2141
01:28:54,584 --> 01:28:56,461
But, when would Satoshi
2142
01:28:56,544 --> 01:28:58,463
drop off the
Bitcoin Talk forum?
2143
01:28:59,089 --> 01:29:00,924
editor David (on phone):
Three days after Peter Todd
2144
01:29:00,965 --> 01:29:03,760
-replies or adds
on to this post.
-Hoback: That's right.
2145
01:29:03,843 --> 01:29:07,472
You'll never see another post
from Satoshi ever again.
2146
01:29:07,764 --> 01:29:09,557
Three days after
joining the forum,
2147
01:29:09,599 --> 01:29:13,103
Peter Todd finishes
Satoshi's sentence,
2148
01:29:13,186 --> 01:29:14,938
and then disappears.
2149
01:29:14,979 --> 01:29:16,648
Alongside Satoshi.
2150
01:29:16,731 --> 01:29:18,274
♪♪
2151
01:29:18,316 --> 01:29:19,609
Here's what I think
might have happened.
2152
01:29:19,693 --> 01:29:23,196
He created this new account.
2153
01:29:23,279 --> 01:29:24,823
Then, a couple days later,
you know,
2154
01:29:25,198 --> 01:29:28,159
writes the Satoshi post,
logs out...
2155
01:29:29,369 --> 01:29:31,121
logs back in,
but doesn't log back in
2156
01:29:31,204 --> 01:29:32,747
with the correct account.
2157
01:29:32,789 --> 01:29:35,959
And he posts as Peter Todd
instead of Satoshi.
2158
01:29:36,001 --> 01:29:39,129
And then, makes a couple
more posts as Satoshi
2159
01:29:39,212 --> 01:29:40,463
'cause he doesn't want it
to look like
2160
01:29:40,547 --> 01:29:41,881
it's directly related to this.
2161
01:29:41,965 --> 01:29:44,926
And Peter Todd just evaporates
for two fucking years.
2162
01:29:46,511 --> 01:29:48,346
editor David (on phone):
That's, that's insane.
2163
01:29:48,430 --> 01:29:49,806
It's insane.
2164
01:29:51,099 --> 01:29:52,809
It was just so suspicious,
2165
01:29:52,851 --> 01:29:56,146
I wanted Peter to explain
how this was possible.
2166
01:29:56,187 --> 01:29:57,856
Satoshi's last post was, like,
2167
01:29:57,939 --> 01:30:00,567
one week after I signed up
for Bitcoin Talk.
2168
01:30:00,942 --> 01:30:02,277
But...
2169
01:30:02,569 --> 01:30:04,446
Hoback:
Right. And then,
you disappeared.
2170
01:30:04,863 --> 01:30:08,158
Yeah, then I disappeared.
(laughs)
2171
01:30:10,452 --> 01:30:12,996
And Satoshi disappeared
at the same time.
2172
01:30:13,079 --> 01:30:13,955
Todd:
Yeah.
2173
01:30:14,330 --> 01:30:16,666
I really should've paid more
attention to Bitcoin early on,
2174
01:30:16,750 --> 01:30:18,543
but, you know,
I had other stuff to do.
2175
01:30:18,626 --> 01:30:22,005
Y-You corrected Satoshi,
but it kind of looks more like
2176
01:30:22,088 --> 01:30:25,091
you were continuing
a thought of Satoshi.
2177
01:30:25,175 --> 01:30:28,011
Well, Satoshi made
a little brain fart on, like,
2178
01:30:28,094 --> 01:30:30,013
how exactly transactions work,
2179
01:30:30,096 --> 01:30:32,974
and I corrected him
on that very boring thing.
2180
01:30:33,183 --> 01:30:35,852
Hoback:
Why didn't you delete
the 2010 post?
2181
01:30:35,935 --> 01:30:37,187
Why would I?
2182
01:30:37,604 --> 01:30:38,730
Hoback:
Well,
2183
01:30:39,022 --> 01:30:41,983
I mean, 'cause it,
it just makes you look like
2184
01:30:42,025 --> 01:30:45,528
you had these deep insights
into Bitcoin at the time and--
2185
01:30:45,570 --> 01:30:47,530
Well, yeah.
I'm Satoshi Nakamoto.
2186
01:30:47,614 --> 01:30:49,699
Hoback:
I mean,
2187
01:30:49,741 --> 01:30:52,118
it's sort of the last thing
you'd expect Satoshi to say.
2188
01:30:52,202 --> 01:30:53,328
Ah, but that's it.
2189
01:30:53,411 --> 01:30:54,704
That's like
the meta level, right?
2190
01:30:54,746 --> 01:30:57,290
Because I know you would
expect Satoshi Nakamoto
2191
01:30:57,374 --> 01:30:58,917
to delete the post.
You just said,
2192
01:30:59,000 --> 01:31:01,169
"Why didn't Satoshi Nakamoto
delete the post?"
2193
01:31:01,211 --> 01:31:04,047
-The post that was corrected?
-Yeah, yeah,
the correction post.
2194
01:31:04,130 --> 01:31:06,299
Right? But then,
I did the next level of meta
2195
01:31:06,383 --> 01:31:09,803
and then didn't delete the post
to go throw off people like you.
2196
01:31:10,804 --> 01:31:12,555
Hoback:
Peter sure remembered this post
2197
01:31:12,639 --> 01:31:15,183
he'd made 13 years ago
awfully well.
2198
01:31:16,267 --> 01:31:17,519
Yeah...
2199
01:31:17,560 --> 01:31:19,813
I don't know.
You're-You're feeding him, like,
2200
01:31:19,896 --> 01:31:23,024
-footage that's just gonna be--
-Yeah. Oh, it's gonna be great.
2201
01:31:23,608 --> 01:31:25,110
Hoback:
Peter Todd's strategy,
2202
01:31:25,193 --> 01:31:27,862
his game theory to
throw people off the trail...
2203
01:31:27,904 --> 01:31:30,865
-Oh, no, I am Satoshi.
I'm Satoshi Nakamoto.
-(Hoback laughs)
2204
01:31:30,949 --> 01:31:32,075
Hoback:
...was so effective,
2205
01:31:32,158 --> 01:31:33,785
I hadn't really
considered him a suspect.
2206
01:31:34,244 --> 01:31:36,663
In fact, just about
no one had considered him.
2207
01:31:36,746 --> 01:31:39,332
So, you don't think it's Peter?
You-- No way?
2208
01:31:39,416 --> 01:31:42,210
Peter's ruled out
way, way early on.
2209
01:31:42,252 --> 01:31:43,586
Hoback:
And even insinuating this
2210
01:31:43,628 --> 01:31:45,380
would get you laughed
off the forums.
2211
01:31:45,463 --> 01:31:47,674
Peter Todd was just
a little kid back then.
2212
01:31:47,757 --> 01:31:49,718
Hoback:
So, was it possible that
2213
01:31:49,801 --> 01:31:52,429
Peter Todd could be Satoshi?
2214
01:31:52,512 --> 01:31:54,514
When you start to, like,
run through all the,
2215
01:31:54,597 --> 01:31:55,724
all the scenarios,
2216
01:31:55,807 --> 01:31:58,643
it checks a lot of boxes.
2217
01:31:58,727 --> 01:31:59,936
Satoshi wrote messages
2218
01:32:00,020 --> 01:32:02,397
like they were
on an academic calendar,
2219
01:32:02,480 --> 01:32:04,274
with more time in the summer.
2220
01:32:04,357 --> 01:32:06,443
I was off getting
a fine arts degree.
2221
01:32:06,526 --> 01:32:09,946
Hoback:
Then, there was the British
or Canadian writing style.
2222
01:32:10,030 --> 01:32:12,657
Todd:
There was something called
the Toronto Caving Group.
2223
01:32:12,741 --> 01:32:16,369
Hoback: In 2001,
when the dude is 15 or 16,
2224
01:32:16,453 --> 01:32:18,830
he is literally already
trying to figure out
2225
01:32:18,913 --> 01:32:21,416
how to turn Hashcash
into a currency.
2226
01:32:21,458 --> 01:32:23,585
After all,
I did try to invent Bitcoin.
2227
01:32:23,626 --> 01:32:25,879
And I'm not bitter that
Satoshi got there first.
2228
01:32:25,962 --> 01:32:28,715
You know, when I first
saw the Bitcoin code,
2229
01:32:28,798 --> 01:32:31,217
I was like, this is not
a professional programmer.
2230
01:32:31,301 --> 01:32:32,927
Hoback:
Which Peter Todd wasn't.
2231
01:32:33,011 --> 01:32:35,764
Experienced C++ coders
basically confirmed
2232
01:32:35,805 --> 01:32:37,599
that it could've been
written by either of you.
2233
01:32:37,640 --> 01:32:41,686
-So, do you think
I can write in C++?
-Hoback: Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
2234
01:32:41,770 --> 01:32:44,397
Mm. That doesn't sound
like you've done your research.
2235
01:32:44,481 --> 01:32:45,774
-(Todd laughs)
-Yeah.
2236
01:32:46,107 --> 01:32:48,902
Hoback:
But, that old resume he tried
to scrub from the internet
2237
01:32:48,985 --> 01:32:52,489
showed that he'd coded
a system in C++ from scratch.
2238
01:32:52,906 --> 01:32:54,657
Why bother lying about this?
2239
01:32:54,699 --> 01:32:56,785
So, he's done a bit of,
bit of research. That's good.
2240
01:32:56,826 --> 01:32:59,496
Hoback:
And if you were like, 22
when you created Bitcoin,
2241
01:32:59,537 --> 01:33:02,457
imagine what it would do
to your psyche.
2242
01:33:02,499 --> 01:33:04,000
He's the contrarian
of contrarians.
2243
01:33:04,084 --> 01:33:06,670
I-I think people often,
often miss this nuance.
2244
01:33:06,753 --> 01:33:08,004
He always wants
to make sure he can prove
2245
01:33:08,046 --> 01:33:09,506
that he's the smartest guy
in the room.
2246
01:33:09,839 --> 01:33:11,132
Hoback:
Well, I think if it was a team,
2247
01:33:11,174 --> 01:33:12,676
it wouldn't have been
more than two people.
2248
01:33:12,759 --> 01:33:15,845
Didn't need even two people.
One could have written it.
2249
01:33:15,887 --> 01:33:18,431
Hoback:
But, who could Satoshi
trust with Bitcoin's future?
2250
01:33:18,515 --> 01:33:20,225
Adam Back
would keep the secret.
2251
01:33:20,558 --> 01:33:23,478
Hoback:
Maybe the first guy
that emailed back in 2008.
2252
01:33:23,520 --> 01:33:25,689
Or it could be
somebody younger.
2253
01:33:25,772 --> 01:33:27,023
Hoback:
The guy who, you know,
2254
01:33:27,065 --> 01:33:28,983
has sort of considered you
like a son.
2255
01:33:29,025 --> 01:33:30,151
Remind me again,
what's your source
2256
01:33:30,235 --> 01:33:31,778
for the "considered you
like a son" thing?
2257
01:33:31,861 --> 01:33:34,114
Hoback:
That was with you last time.
2258
01:33:34,197 --> 01:33:35,490
-Back: What?
-No.
2259
01:33:35,532 --> 01:33:37,534
I think he thinks
of you like a son.
2260
01:33:37,617 --> 01:33:38,827
A son. Yeah.
2261
01:33:38,910 --> 01:33:41,204
-(crosstalk)
-No, sorry. No, no offense,
2262
01:33:41,246 --> 01:33:43,123
I'm much closer
to Greg Maxwell than you.
2263
01:33:43,206 --> 01:33:44,666
Much closer.
2264
01:33:44,749 --> 01:33:48,420
Hoback:
Greg Maxwell, who co-founds
Blockstream with Adam Back.
2265
01:33:48,503 --> 01:33:49,713
This loose coupling
isn't inherent.
2266
01:33:49,754 --> 01:33:51,965
You can sort of pick
your degree of looseness.
2267
01:33:52,048 --> 01:33:53,466
Hoback:
Keeping Peter at
arm's length...
2268
01:33:53,550 --> 01:33:55,593
We talked about saying it
would actually be much better
2269
01:33:55,677 --> 01:33:57,178
if I didn't work
for Blockstream.
2270
01:33:57,262 --> 01:34:00,056
Hoback:
...in order to solve
Bitcoin's technical problems,
2271
01:34:00,140 --> 01:34:01,933
which they couldn't
do anonymously.
2272
01:34:02,017 --> 01:34:05,103
You need to give people space to
actually work on these issues.
2273
01:34:05,186 --> 01:34:07,022
Hoback:
But, they would need cover...
2274
01:34:07,063 --> 01:34:08,815
O'Leary:
Whoever had access
to Satoshi's email
2275
01:34:08,898 --> 01:34:11,693
was somewhat aligned
with Blockstream.
2276
01:34:11,776 --> 01:34:13,528
Hoback:
...to push back against Gavin.
2277
01:34:13,611 --> 01:34:15,363
We'll definitely
need to increase
2278
01:34:15,447 --> 01:34:16,906
the maximum block size.
2279
01:34:16,948 --> 01:34:18,241
That doesn't mean
you're the leader.
2280
01:34:18,283 --> 01:34:20,452
That just means you're the guy
who answers questions.
2281
01:34:20,535 --> 01:34:23,329
Hoback:
And here's the big one.
2282
01:34:23,413 --> 01:34:27,292
What if the real reason
for using the name Satoshi,
2283
01:34:27,375 --> 01:34:28,877
for the anonymity,
2284
01:34:28,918 --> 01:34:31,963
was so that people
could take Bitcoin seriously?
2285
01:34:32,464 --> 01:34:34,924
So they could believe
that it must have been created
2286
01:34:35,008 --> 01:34:37,677
by one of these
famous cryptographers,
2287
01:34:38,887 --> 01:34:41,723
and not some kid
still in school?
2288
01:34:43,016 --> 01:34:46,019
-So, here's what
I think happened.
-Todd: Hm?
2289
01:34:46,102 --> 01:34:48,605
-Possibly. Okay?
-Todd: Possibly.
2290
01:34:48,646 --> 01:34:51,232
I think that John Dillon...
2291
01:34:51,316 --> 01:34:52,317
(Todd snickers)
2292
01:34:52,400 --> 01:34:55,612
...was created
so that you would have an excuse
2293
01:34:55,653 --> 01:34:58,073
-to make replace-by-fee.
-(Todd laughing)
2294
01:34:58,156 --> 01:35:00,700
A concept which you had
envisioned years earlier,
2295
01:35:00,784 --> 01:35:04,079
-but you needed some kind
of cover in order to make.
-(laughing harder)
2296
01:35:04,120 --> 01:35:07,207
And you also needed some cover
for that 2010 post.
2297
01:35:07,290 --> 01:35:09,959
Todd:
(laughing) 2010 post? Please.
2298
01:35:10,418 --> 01:35:12,295
Yeah, because I was Satoshi?
2299
01:35:12,337 --> 01:35:13,797
Hoback:
I mean, yeah.
2300
01:35:13,880 --> 01:35:16,216
You know, you're very concerned
about all the privacy stuff.
2301
01:35:16,299 --> 01:35:18,259
-(laughing)
-So, you reach out
to your old buddy Adam Back.
2302
01:35:18,301 --> 01:35:19,844
You say, we need to do
something about this,
2303
01:35:19,928 --> 01:35:21,888
but we need to pay the devs.
2304
01:35:21,971 --> 01:35:23,515
But you can't join Blockstream
2305
01:35:23,598 --> 01:35:26,059
-because it would look
too, uh, suspicious.
-(laughing harder)
2306
01:35:26,142 --> 01:35:29,020
-So, you don't.
-(sighs) I will admit,
you're pretty creative.
2307
01:35:29,104 --> 01:35:31,147
You come up with
some crazy theories.
2308
01:35:31,231 --> 01:35:32,399
It's ludicrous,
2309
01:35:32,482 --> 01:35:34,943
but it's the sort of theory
someone who spends their time
2310
01:35:35,026 --> 01:35:36,903
as a documentary journalist
would come up with.
2311
01:35:36,986 --> 01:35:38,905
So yeah, yeah. I'll say,
of course I'm Satoshi,
2312
01:35:38,988 --> 01:35:40,031
and I'm Craig Wright.
2313
01:35:40,115 --> 01:35:41,991
And yes,
I was definitely covering
2314
01:35:42,033 --> 01:35:43,827
that little bit about,
you know, fees
2315
01:35:43,910 --> 01:35:45,662
to go pretend to be Satoshi.
2316
01:35:45,745 --> 01:35:48,123
Or not Satoshi,
one or the other. (snickers)
2317
01:35:48,164 --> 01:35:51,835
Hoback:
Well, why make up
the whole John Dillon thing?
2318
01:35:51,918 --> 01:35:54,504
-Well, like I said,
I'm not John Dillon.
-Hoback: Okay.
2319
01:35:54,546 --> 01:35:57,048
Sorry. I'm not John Dillon.
I don't know who that is.
2320
01:35:57,132 --> 01:35:58,925
I'll warn you.
This is gonna be very funny
2321
01:35:59,009 --> 01:36:00,844
when you put this
into the documentary
2322
01:36:00,927 --> 01:36:02,595
and a bunch
of Bitcoiners watch it.
2323
01:36:02,679 --> 01:36:05,056
-Back: I think--
-Hoback: Well, I don't think
they would be very happy
2324
01:36:05,140 --> 01:36:06,975
with this conclusion because
you're pretty controversial
2325
01:36:07,058 --> 01:36:08,226
within the community
at this point.
2326
01:36:08,309 --> 01:36:10,687
No, I-I suspect a lot
of them will be very happy
2327
01:36:10,770 --> 01:36:12,022
if you go this route.
2328
01:36:12,063 --> 01:36:14,691
'Cause it's gonna be like
yet another example
2329
01:36:14,733 --> 01:36:17,068
of journalists
really missing the point,
2330
01:36:17,152 --> 01:36:18,403
in a way that's very funny.
2331
01:36:18,486 --> 01:36:19,946
Hoback:
What is the point?
2332
01:36:20,030 --> 01:36:22,407
The point is just to make
Bitcoin the global currency.
2333
01:36:22,490 --> 01:36:25,493
And people like you
being distracted by nonsense
2334
01:36:25,535 --> 01:36:27,620
can potentially
do good on that.
2335
01:36:27,704 --> 01:36:29,831
(somber music playing)
2336
01:36:32,334 --> 01:36:36,421
Hoback:
And it seemed this plan
was coming to life.
2337
01:36:36,504 --> 01:36:38,798
(applause)
2338
01:36:38,882 --> 01:36:40,008
With Wall Street's involvement
2339
01:36:40,091 --> 01:36:41,926
bringing Bitcoin
to new heights...
2340
01:36:47,891 --> 01:36:50,894
Hoback:
El Salvador found
itself in the black.
2341
01:36:50,935 --> 01:36:53,563
Suddenly, presidents
were taking Samson's calls.
2342
01:36:53,646 --> 01:36:54,981
(group speaking Spanish)
2343
01:36:55,065 --> 01:36:57,233
And Argentina's
newly elected president
2344
01:36:57,317 --> 01:36:59,903
shut down its central bank
and allowed people
2345
01:36:59,986 --> 01:37:02,030
to use Bitcoin
however they wanted.
2346
01:37:02,113 --> 01:37:04,908
Bitcoin was advancing
as a currency,
2347
01:37:04,949 --> 01:37:08,244
even if America throttled
its use as digital cash.
2348
01:37:09,079 --> 01:37:12,624
Maybe it wasn't the design that
made Bitcoin so unstoppable.
2349
01:37:13,166 --> 01:37:15,377
Maybe it was human nature.
2350
01:37:15,460 --> 01:37:17,587
Or just plain old greed.
2351
01:37:18,630 --> 01:37:20,173
Even Dr. Doom
2352
01:37:20,256 --> 01:37:22,967
launched his own
blockchain-based token.
2353
01:37:24,469 --> 01:37:27,347
Craig Wright was proven
to be a fraud in court,
2354
01:37:27,430 --> 01:37:29,808
but it required Adam
to finally release
2355
01:37:29,891 --> 01:37:31,768
his emails with Satoshi.
2356
01:37:31,851 --> 01:37:33,603
He had been telling the truth.
2357
01:37:33,687 --> 01:37:36,773
And as more of Satoshi's
conversations came to light,
2358
01:37:36,856 --> 01:37:39,109
so did the genius,
2359
01:37:39,192 --> 01:37:42,445
the struggles,
and the immaturity.
2360
01:37:43,613 --> 01:37:45,281
But, what about the stash?
2361
01:37:45,365 --> 01:37:47,450
Well, you know my--
I-I mean, I don't know for sure,
2362
01:37:47,534 --> 01:37:49,035
but, like, my suspicion is
2363
01:37:49,119 --> 01:37:52,080
Satoshi did, in fact, go destroy
all of Satoshi's ability
2364
01:37:52,163 --> 01:37:53,873
to prove who they were.
2365
01:37:54,249 --> 01:37:55,959
Hoback:
But, they hadn't
burned the coins.
2366
01:37:56,042 --> 01:37:57,585
(explosion blasts)
2367
01:37:57,669 --> 01:38:00,672
Or in a way, had they?
2368
01:38:00,755 --> 01:38:02,716
A few months after
confronting Peter,
2369
01:38:02,799 --> 01:38:04,592
I came across
this old chat log,
2370
01:38:04,634 --> 01:38:07,303
that someone probably
shouldn't have recorded,
2371
01:38:07,387 --> 01:38:08,680
where Peter says,
2372
01:38:08,763 --> 01:38:10,890
"I'm probably
the world-leading expert
2373
01:38:10,974 --> 01:38:12,934
"on how to sacrifice
your Bitcoins.
2374
01:38:13,018 --> 01:38:15,687
"And I've done exactly
one such sacrifice,
2375
01:38:15,770 --> 01:38:18,148
and I did it by hand."
2376
01:38:18,231 --> 01:38:19,274
♪♪
2377
01:38:19,357 --> 01:38:22,902
It was hard not to read
this as an admission.
2378
01:38:23,737 --> 01:38:25,321
Like Peter wanted
his inner circle
2379
01:38:25,363 --> 01:38:29,284
to trust that he had, in fact,
sacrificed the Bitcoins,
2380
01:38:29,701 --> 01:38:31,953
and destroyed all access.
2381
01:38:32,704 --> 01:38:34,914
But, this wasn't proof.
2382
01:38:35,790 --> 01:38:37,834
It's Bitcoin.
Don't trust, verify.
2383
01:38:37,876 --> 01:38:40,128
And sometimes,
you can't verify.
2384
01:38:41,921 --> 01:38:43,340
Back:
Mm-hmm.
2385
01:38:43,423 --> 01:38:45,675
Hoback: And if Peter Todd
and his friends at Blockstream
2386
01:38:45,717 --> 01:38:48,428
were, in fact, behind Bitcoin,
2387
01:38:48,678 --> 01:38:51,097
would he remain an idealist?
2388
01:38:51,181 --> 01:38:52,974
Or was he still holding on
2389
01:38:53,016 --> 01:38:55,268
to the keys to
the world's fortune?
2390
01:38:56,436 --> 01:38:58,730
Just in case.
2391
01:38:59,773 --> 01:39:03,026
(dramatic music playing)
2392
01:39:16,831 --> 01:39:20,377
♪♪
179908
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