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[music]
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[Malcom Gaskill] July
1645, it's a hot summer's day,
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middle of a market town
of Chelmsford in Essex.
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There's always a kind of
carnivalesque atmosphere,
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people selling souvenirs
and food and drink.
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And this is the day
of the Assizes,
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so this is where the
judges arrive from London.
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There are 50 counts
of witchcraft
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which are going to be heard.
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This is going to be England's
largest ever witch trial
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up to this date.
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The witches have actually been
brought there in shackles
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through the jeering crowd.
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These are women who
are going to be dirty
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and ragged and terrified.
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They will resemble the
crowd's expectations
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of what a witch might look like.
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[Marion Gibson] And the
courtroom is an open space.
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It's full of spectators,
it's full of people who
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might be shouting things.
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It will be noisy, it will
be hot, it will be smelly,
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it will be a vile place to be.
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And at the centre of
this terrible maelstrom
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of accusation and
cruelty is Bess Clark
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on trial for her life.
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[Malcom Gaskill] She's a
middle-aged woman, a
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single mother, a
woman who is disabled.
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It's said she only has one leg,
so she'd be leaning on a crutch.
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[Andrew Sneddon] Elizabeth
Clark, a pitiful figure,
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watching her are Matthew
Hopkins and John Stearne,
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self-made witch finders, the
men who brought her there.
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[PEOPLE SHOUTING]
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The interrogation of a
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woman called Elizabeth Clark
really kick-starts the
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investigation of witchcraft
that Matthew Hopkins
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is associated with.
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[Narrator] March 1645.
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Rumours spread through
the town of Manningtree
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that a disabled woman,
Elizabeth Clark,
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has used witchcraft to harm
the wife of a local tailor.
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Magistrates decide
to investigate
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and send interrogators
to her home.
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They search Elizabeth's body for
strange and unnatural marks.
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[Diane Purkiss] The idea of
searching women's bodies
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was the idea of searching
them for a witch mark.
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What they were looking for was
a mark on the body of the woman
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which indicated the point at
which the woman's familiar demon
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had suckled her blood like
a breastfeeding baby,
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but blood, not milk.
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[Malcom Gaskill] So they search
Elizabeth Clark's body
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and they find three teats which
they consider to be unnatural.
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So Elizabeth Clark is
held under house arrest.
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There are watchers, local
people who are appointed,
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who will just sit and
stare at her as she
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sits there on her chair,
and what they're really
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waiting for is for her imps
to come and visit her.
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[Darren Oldridge] Ordinary
people associated bad magic
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with the activities
of nasty spirits
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that were variously described
as puckles or imps or sprites,
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and in the biblical language
of English Protestants,
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became known as
familiar spirits.
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[Malcom Gaskill] The watchers
will take Elizabeth Clark
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and walk her up and down
until she's exhausted,
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because it would be an
exceptionally cruel and
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unpleasant thing to do to
somebody who was disabled.
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[Nimisha Patel] So I think with
these whole combinations of
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methods clearly intended
to break her,
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and by that I mean for
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her to lose any sense
of control or agency,
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and I think these methods create
extreme emotional stress,
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physical stress and exhaustion.
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All of these together have
the impact that torture
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is designed to have, which
is to make people say what
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the torturers need them to
say or to confess to things
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that are not true.
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[Malcom Gaskill] So there's this
incredibly dramatic scene taking
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place in this room
with the watchers,
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Elizabeth Clark, who
hasn't really said
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or done very much.
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So then on the fourth
night of Tuesday 24th,
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Hopkins and Stearne arrive and
take over this interrogation
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of Elizabeth Clark.
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[WALKING ON GRAVEL]
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So Hopkins is probably
in his early 20s,
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Stearne a little bit older,
maybe in his mid-30s.
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He's got young children.
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Hopkins is a rather more kind of
impetuous young man in a hurry,
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eager to prove himself, less
established in society.
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They are minor gentlemen
that have come from
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the port of Manningtree
where Elizabeth Clark lives,
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and they have followed
some of the suspicions
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that have been voiced to them
by the townsmen of Manningtree,
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who then ask them to
do something about it.
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The thing about
Hopkins and Stearne,
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they're not professional
witch-finders.
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They've only really
just started out.
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But what they profess
is that they have
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experience in witchcraft.
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They start interrogating her,
seems quite unforthcoming,
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and they're just about to
leave, and as they leave,
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Elizabeth Clark suddenly
makes this extremely
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dramatic announcement,
which is, "I will show
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you my imps, for they
be ready to come."
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That then changes the
situation in the room.
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[Marion Gibson] If you're there
in the dark, alone with a witch,
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and she says she's going to
bring demons into the room,
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naturally enough, if you
were a good Christian
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in the 17th century,
you were scared.
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[MUSIC PLAYS]
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[Malcom Gaskill] So once
Elizabeth Clark says,
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"I'll show you my children,
they be ready to come,"
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then this parade of
animals enter the room.
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So first of all, you
get Holt, who is a cat,
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and then you get Jamara,
who is a white dog,
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then Vinegar Tom, who is
a strange kind of hybrid
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between a greyhound and
seemingly an ox or a bull,
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and then various other
creatures that then follow on,
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and this leading up to
the rabbit or a toad,
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which Elizabeth Clark
says is going to leap
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down John Stearne's throat
and lay toads in his belly.
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We're not really clear
what's happening here.
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Is this Elizabeth describing
the familiars that she sees?
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Did people in the room
really see something?
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If so, what?
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Did an animal run
through the room?
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Was it shadows?
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What was it?
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[Malcom Gaskill]So this is a
witch who's really kind of
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warming to her own
theme, because now she's
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presenting this
picture of absolute
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phantasmagorical terror,
which is probably more than
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Hopkins and Stearne
want to hear, because
they're no longer just
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the disinterested
bystanders, she is actually
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threatening them directly.
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So that then Hopkins
and Stearne start asking
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more questions about,
"Are you not afraid
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of these creatures?"
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And she says, "Why would
I be afraid of them?
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These are my children."
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So then, you know, if these are
her children, who is the father?
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Well, of course, the
father, she says, is Satan.
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She says that, you know,
he's a fine gentleman,
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he wears a lace collar,
that, you know, their
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lovemaking takes place regularly
and lasts half the night.
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You know, this sounds like
this kind of sexual fantasy
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of a lonely woman who
doesn't have a husband,
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doesn't have a lover.
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And, you know, whether
she believes this or not,
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she's certainly saying
the kinds of things that
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Hopkins wants to hear,
because, of course, these
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are deeply horrific,
terrifying things
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for a woman actually to have
had sex with the devil.
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[Marion Gibson Elizabeth says
not only that she is a witch,
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but that some of her neighbours
are witches as well.
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By the time her
confessions have finished,
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and she's subjected to several
rounds of questioning,
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she's known four or five
other people from surrounding
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villages as witches.
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It's difficult to say why she
accused the people that she did.
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In some cases, they
do already have a bad
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reputation for witchcraft.
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I think one of the horrifying
things about witch trials
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is that you feel it
could happen to anybody.
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Some of these people come across
as being actually quite pious.
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[Malcom Gaskill] So all these
women will soon be interrogated
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and will start confessing
to such crimes as
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causing harm to livestock,
to consorting with
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familiars, and to taking
the devil as a lover.
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The trial comes
round in Chelmsford.
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It's been four months since
Hopkins and Stearne first
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interrogated Elizabeth Clark.
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And by this time, we've got
at least 30 women being
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held in Colchester Castle.
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[Marion Gibson] The women are
all brought before magistrates.
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That's the first step
in an English witch
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trial in this period.
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And then you, and the
statement that you have made,
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whether it's a
confession or not,
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are sent off for trial at a
court called the Assizes,
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which is the court for
serious crimes in the period.
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[Malcom Gaskill] In front of
the whole gathered court, the
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jurors, the witnesses,
the magistrates, the
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ministers, everyone present,
Elizabeth Clark is found
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guilty of witchcraft and
sentenced to be hanged
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by the neck until dead.
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[Marion Gibson] After Elizabeth
and the other
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women have been sentenced,
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they're marched through the town
of Chelmsford to their death.
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[Malcom Gaskill] 14 women are
taken up to the gallows,
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led up to the ladder
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and choked there before this
great jeering, excited crowd.
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[Marion Gibson] Hopkins and
Stearne would have been very
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pleased with this outcome.
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They'd got a number of
people executed as witches.
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[Malcom Gaskill] Hopkins and
Stearne, whatever they intended
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to do, they're now actually
a witch-finding duo,
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and people look to them as
professional witch-finders.
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They believe that
they're on a mission,
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and their mission is to root
out devilry in the community.
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So they are zealous,
they are also ruthless,
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because they believe that the
stakes are incredibly high.
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This is the godly future
of their community
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and the region of the country
which they believe is at stake.
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[Narrator] After their recent
success, Hopkins and Stearne
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travel farther into Essex
with plans to hunt
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the evil witches
they believe are
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terrorizing the country.
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But travel across
England is dangerous.
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The country is deeply divided
as a brutal civil war rages.
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[Marion Gibson] What the civil
war does is break down
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structures of authority.
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The courts stop working
as they normally do,
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magistrates and judges
can't travel to courts,
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and therefore it becomes
a bit of a free-for-all
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in English justice.
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[Darren Oldridge] It became
possible for men like
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John Stearne and Matthew Hopkins
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to some extent take matters
into their own hands
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and to set themselves
up as witch-finders.
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[Malcom Gaskill] So the English
civil war breaks out in 1642
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and this is the battle
between Crown and Parliament.
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So Charles I is the king,
he's claimed that he
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is an absolute monarch, he
doesn't need Parliament,
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Parliament think otherwise.
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But this is, like all
civil wars, turns the
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country upside down.
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It is, of course, the most
dramatic constitutional crisis.
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[Darren Oldridge] In that
context, there was
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much talk of the devil
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because the devil for both
sides was the secret instigator
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of the mischief.
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[Malcom Gaskill] The political
tumult of the
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civil war made many people think
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that this was the
start of Armageddon,
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and that in that
context of fear,
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you get all sorts of strange
omens and apparitions
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and miracles and happenings.
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So the London pressers pour
out all kinds of pamphlets
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and weird and wonderful
stories of things that
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people have experienced,
such as a one-eyed kitten
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00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,960
with the hands of a child,
which seem like evidence that
242
00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:16,920
the world is coming to an end.
243
00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,680
That's the kind of world
in which one would
244
00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:22,440
expect witches to appear.
245
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,720
brutally extracting
confessions from accused
246
00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,520
brutally extracting
confessions from accused
247
00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,000
witches in welcoming towns.
248
00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:41,840
[Malcom Gaskill] You've got to
understand exactly what Hopkins
249
00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,200
and Stearne are doing
in these communities.
250
00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:49,320
They don't convict anybody,
they don't execute anybody,
251
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,440
they don't even really
accuse anybody.
252
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:53,880
What they do is that
they are facilitators
253
00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:57,400
who listen to the
suspicions of local people
254
00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,360
and then encourage those
people to come forward
255
00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,040
and to tell their story.
256
00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:08,000
[Alison Rowlands] And then what
they do is they develop methods
257
00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,280
for gathering
pre-trial evidence,
258
00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:15,360
and it's in that capacity
that they question suspects
259
00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:17,040
and torture suspects.
260
00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:22,200
[Malcom Gaskill] They are not
averse at all to physical
261
00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,000
violence, particularly
to starving people of sleep.
262
00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:28,560
[Marion Gibson] Hopkins and
Stearne travelled
263
00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:29,240
around the country
264
00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,960
with a team of women employed
to search the naked bodies
265
00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:37,160
of witchcraft suspects to see if
they had demonic marks on them.
266
00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:42,200
[Alison Rowlands] They also
prick various marks with needles
267
00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,280
to see if they bleed
or to see if they're
268
00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,400
insensitive to pain.
269
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,040
[Marion Gibson] I think they
were obsessed
270
00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:49,280
with the idea of women's bodies.
271
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,520
I think they were troubled
by women's sexuality.
272
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:54,960
The number of times that
they find demonic marks
273
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,640
in what they call the
secret parts of a woman
274
00:14:57,720 --> 00:14:59,360
is quite striking.
275
00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,520
[Alison Rowlands] We're dealing
with
276
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:03,400
very, very patriarchal
societies,
277
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,440
societies which see women as
inferior, as more sinful,
278
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:09,560
and also women have
less legal power,
279
00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,120
they have less economic
power, and so they are less
280
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,680
able to defend themselves
if they do get
281
00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:17,440
suspected or accused.
282
00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:19,080
[Nimisha Patel] I think that
kind of dehumanising
283
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,320
allows all sorts of public
shaming, public blaming.
284
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,280
It's easy to demonise
women and justify torture.
285
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,480
[Malcom Gaskill]
Hopkins and Stearne are
actually very brutal.
286
00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:33,680
I think they see
themselves like soldiers,
287
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,080
and of course there are
untold acts of brutality
288
00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,680
which are being committed
in the name of both
289
00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:41,800
the side of Parliament
and the Crown during
290
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:43,080
the ongoing civil war.
291
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,640
They start using methods
which are really illegal,
292
00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:49,840
and torture is only used
in English law in very
293
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:51,320
exceptional circumstances.
294
00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:53,120
They're not permitted
to do this,
295
00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,880
but again, the Hopkins
and Stearne feel that the
296
00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:57,960
ends justify the means.
297
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:07,240
Hopkins and Stearne, their
fame spreads accordingly,
298
00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,800
particularly amongst
communities which have been,
299
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:12,920
some of them, waiting
for a generation
300
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,480
in order to have the
confidence to get rid of
301
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:17,720
the people in their
midst who they sincerely
302
00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:18,920
believe to be witches.
303
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:21,960
[Narrator] July 1645.
304
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:28,280
Hopkins and Stearne leave Essex
and push north into Suffolk.
305
00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,480
[Marion Gibson] People
would have received
Hopkins and Stearne
306
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:32,840
as authoritative figures,
so they would have
307
00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,640
brought letters with them,
perhaps from magistrates,
308
00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,440
perhaps from other people
saying that their work was good
309
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,640
and that the village or town
they'd come to should help them.
310
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,760
[Malcom Gaskill] When Hopkins
and Stearne go into Suffolk,
311
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,360
they hear confessions
that are similar to those
312
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,720
that they've heard in Essex,
but if anything, they're
313
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,080
even more fantastical.
314
00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,600
Some of these Suffolk
confessions give us a sense
315
00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:00,120
that they are part of
the fantasy of rather
316
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,320
lonely, love-starved women.
317
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:06,320
[Marion Gibson] Stories like
Margaret Wyard's.
318
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:08,960
Margaret lived in
Framlingham in Suffolk,
319
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,960
and she confessed that
many years before
320
00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,440
she had met the devil
in the form of a calf.
321
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:17,640
Surprisingly, the
calf could speak
322
00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:20,320
and he asked Margaret
to have sex with him.
323
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,640
[Malcom Gaskill] And there are
even more men accused as well.
324
00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:28,080
Men tell rather similar
stories to women
325
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,680
about the way that they
met with the devil
326
00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,080
and that they formed the
blood pact with Satan
327
00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,320
and then familiars came to them
and that they sent the familiars
328
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:37,560
out after their enemies.
329
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,000
[Nsrrstor] Suffolk is a triumph
for Hopkins and Stearne.
330
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:51,560
Their reputation as formidable
witch-finders continues to grow.
331
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,960
They separate to
cover more ground.
332
00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,280
[Malcom Gaskill] This parting
of the ways reflects their
333
00:17:57,360 --> 00:17:58,560
different character
and their different
334
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:00,920
circumstances.
Stearne is a slightly
335
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:02,840
older family man,
he wants to go back
336
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,920
to his young children,
whereas Hopkins has this
337
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,840
real sense of himself
as the witch-finder,
338
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,520
this charismatic witch-finder
who can ride out,
339
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,400
and he does, on this
great lonely trek,
340
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:18,080
probably around 300 miles
as he goes up into Suffolk,
341
00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,600
into Norfolk, down the
east coast of England
342
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,000
and then back round again
in a great circuit.
343
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,320
One of the reasons he becomes
a witch-finder in 1645
344
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,040
I think lies in his
upbringing and his childhood.
345
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,160
So he's born in
around about 1620.
346
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:45,560
His father, James Hopkins, is a
university-educated minister.
347
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:49,320
And so Hopkins is growing up
in this sense of Puritanism
348
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,600
and the things that
threaten Puritanism.
349
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,560
[Alison Rowlands] His father
dies in the mid-1630s
350
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:56,880
and his
widowed mother,
351
00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:02,400
Marie, moves to Manningtree
and she marries the minister
352
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,800
of Mistley and Manningtree.
353
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,040
[Malcom Gaskill] So I think he
would have grown up
354
00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:08,120
with a very
strong sense
355
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,320
that there were things
that threatened godliness
356
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,200
and that godliness needed to
be protected at all costs,
357
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,960
and even if that meant
actually a kind of an
358
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:21,280
aggressive counterattack
against the things which
359
00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:25,680
threatened that sense of purity
in English religious life.
360
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:27,480
And witches were
certainly a part of that.
361
00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,400
In fact, witches were
really the standout emblem.
362
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,640
I think people respect
Matthew Hopkins
363
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:38,840
when he arrives in
their communities
364
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:43,120
because he has this swagger,
he has this charisma.
365
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:47,440
He is able to persuade people
that he does have authority
366
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,280
and particularly he
has experience which
367
00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:51,320
they don't have.
368
00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:57,400
He's quite skilled at
psychologically understanding
369
00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,240
what is in the minds of accusers
and possibly what's in the
370
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:01,840
minds of the accused as well.
371
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,920
[Marion Gibson] He must have
created a climate of enormous
372
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,880
fear in those communities that
were waiting for him,
373
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,040
having told him to come to their
town and search for witches.
374
00:20:12,120 --> 00:20:16,880
[Malcom Gaskill] The scale of
the witch hunt that Hopkins and
375
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:20,720
Stearne are fomenting,
jails absolutely crammed.
376
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,440
We have reports that
there are as many as 150
377
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:27,080
witches are in the jails and
witnesses coming forward,
378
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:28,800
all these bizarre stories.
379
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:30,800
They do cause concern
in Parliament
380
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,040
that justice is possibly
not being done.
381
00:20:34,120 --> 00:20:36,040
This isn't scepticism
about witchcraft,
382
00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:41,320
but it is scepticism about
correct legal procedure.
383
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,680
And so witch-finding does
raise some eyebrows.
384
00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:48,520
One of the key concerns
that's voiced in
385
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:52,240
Parliament at this time
is word that an ordained
386
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,240
clergyman has been
arrested for witchcraft.
387
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,480
[Marion Gibson] It still
surprises me that John Lowes,
388
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,720
the vicar of Brandistown
in Suffolk, becomes
389
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:13,400
a witchcraft suspect.
390
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:15,160
He's a Church of
England clergyman.
391
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,400
He's not an ex-clergyman,
he's not a member
392
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,880
of some obscure sect.
393
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,040
He's the clergyman who's served
that community for 50 years
394
00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:24,200
and yet he's still a
victim of witchcraft.
395
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,360
He's a victim of witchcraft.
396
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,520
He's the clergyman who's served
that community for 50 years
397
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:30,720
and yet he's still
accused of witchcraft.
398
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:32,880
[Alison Rowlands] John Lowes
is aged about 80 at this point.
399
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:37,760
He is deeply disliked by some
members of his congregation.
400
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,880
Some of his parishioners
absolutely hate him.
401
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,120
They've been in court
cases with him.
402
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,520
They feel he's a very litigious,
a very problematic minister.
403
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,080
Some of the parishioners of John
Lowe's think they've got this
404
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,600
opportunity now because of the
witch-finding to finally get rid
405
00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,400
of this minister who they
really don't like at all.
406
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:04,680
[Malcom Gaskill] I think
Hopkins rather
407
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:05,920
assumes John
Lowes' guilt.
408
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,080
He certainly sees him as
a disreputable person.
409
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,320
[Alison Rowlands] He's
subjected to the same
410
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:14,880
cruel
methods of interrogation
411
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,440
by Matthew Hopkins as any
of the other suspects,
412
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,520
so his age and his gender and
his status don't protect him.
413
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,080
[Marion Gibson] Hopkins and
others come to him and question
414
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,400
him and they watch him
and they walk him,
415
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,360
as they have done with
the other suspects.
416
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,240
Their special method
of torture, which they
417
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,080
don't consider torture,
but which, of course, is.
418
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,640
[Alison Rowlands] And he's
famously swum
419
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:42,120
in the moat of
Framlingham
420
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,120
Castle in Suffolk and
this was a method
421
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,320
by which alleged witches
or suspected witches
422
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:53,520
were put into some body of water
to see if they sank or swam
423
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,680
and if they sank,
they were innocent.
424
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,520
If they swam, the idea
was the water was sort
425
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:00,600
of spitting them out and
saying they were guilty.
426
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,520
[Diane Purkiss] It was yet
another of the
427
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,920
random and
monumentally silly efforts
428
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,280
to provide actual forensic
evidence for witchcraft.
429
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:18,760
[Malcom Gaskill] People often
think there's
430
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:19,520
a kind of
catch-22 here
431
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,640
that meant that you
died either way.
432
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,520
We know that people
were tied to a rope,
433
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,960
so the idea that if you
were innocent and you sank,
434
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,280
you could be pulled
out of the water.
435
00:23:28,360 --> 00:23:30,200
It's a bit like
being waterboarded,
436
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,480
like literally half
drowned in the water and
437
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:33,560
then dragged up again.
438
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:39,120
And, in fact, actually, nobody
wanted the witches to drown
439
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,240
because that would
have been murder.
440
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,560
What they really wanted
to do was to have this
441
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:47,280
piece of public theatre where
somebody was either, you
442
00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:50,560
know, proved to be innocent
or, more often, that they
443
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,000
were shown to be guilty.
444
00:23:53,120 --> 00:23:57,880
But, again, it becomes part of
the theatre of an investigation
445
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:03,080
against a suspect which will get
people behind the accusation,
446
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,440
even if that actual test itself
is not officially sanctioned.
447
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:11,920
It was really one of
the most shocking and
448
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,320
brutal interrogations
that Hopkins oversees
449
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,480
during the campaign.
450
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,960
[SHOUTING]
451
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:39,840
[MUSIC PLAYING]
452
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,640
John Lowes floats,
and therefore it
453
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:53,760
seems like he's guilty
because the element of
454
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:54,920
water is rejecting him.
455
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,200
One of the strange things about
the swimming of John Lowes
456
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,600
is that in order to
underline his guilt,
457
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,000
some other people jump
in and show that they
458
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:06,440
actually sink to the bottom.
459
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,920
It's a sort of a kind of
control experiment, really,
460
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,360
to show that actually it
isn't just a case that
461
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,360
everybody would float, and
this really is a way of
462
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,800
underlining John Lowes' guilt.
463
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:27,920
[Nimisha Patel] People are
enduring pain
464
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:29,480
that carries on
for a long time
465
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,640
may say whatever they
need to for that to stop.
466
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:35,800
[Alison Rowlands] So, he admits
he's a witch
467
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:36,840
under this pressure.
468
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,640
[Malcom Gaskill] He lifts up his
tongue and he shows that there
469
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,120
is a teat under there,
that's what's reported,
470
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:44,760
and that's where he
feeds his familiars.
471
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,280
And he says he sends
his familiars to cause
472
00:25:48,360 --> 00:25:51,080
all sorts of havoc and
destruction, mayhem.
473
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,080
A ship sailing off the
coast is sunk, and all the
474
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:55,680
sailors on it have drowned.
475
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,040
And this, he says,
he rejoices in.
476
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:03,720
There will now be a
reckoning for him.
477
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,560
[Narrator] After his wild
confession,
478
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:16,680
extracted under
brutal torture,
479
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,000
John Lowes is
dragged to a jail,
480
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,560
filled with others
accused of witchcraft.
481
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,120
News of the vast
numbers awaiting trial
482
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:26,840
reaches Parliament.
483
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:31,200
They intervene, keen to ensure
the prosecutions are handled
484
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,000
in accordance with English law.
485
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:39,480
[Malcom Gaskill] The end of
July 1645, and Parliament sends
486
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,520
a special commission,
a special court of Oyer
487
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,840
and Terminer, it's called,
which will go out to Suffolk
488
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:46,880
to oversee the trials there.
489
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,600
It's a measure that's put
in place by Parliament
490
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:55,160
to meet this emergency situation
of this unprecedented number
491
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,000
of witch suspects, because
the courts normally
492
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,200
are just not set up
to deal with this
493
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,360
incredibly high number
of accused individuals.
494
00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:07,240
Parliament's probably also
trying to get control
495
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:08,600
of the situation as well.
496
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,320
I think they feel that the
witchfinders are perhaps
497
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,600
getting a little bit out
of hand in their efforts.
498
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,080
Trials are set for August
26th to deal with the cases,
499
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,920
it's said, of as
many as 150 witches,
500
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,160
and, of course, the
star witnesses will
501
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:27,760
be Hopkins and Stearne.
502
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,280
I think there's always going
to be a point at which
503
00:27:36,360 --> 00:27:40,320
Hopkins and Stearne's methods
are going to hit against
504
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,600
what is actually
permitted procedure.
505
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,480
[Alison Rowlands] The court does
try to limit some of their more
506
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,600
excessive activities, so,
for example, it says you
507
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:51,520
mustn't swim witches any longer.
508
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,240
[Malcom Gaskill] Confessions
mustn't be forced, there mustn't
509
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,200
be these superstitious
extra-legal methods,
510
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,280
and that also the
communities that are
511
00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:06,320
producing these accusations
are going to actually have
512
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,240
to cover some of the costs.
513
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:14,000
So this serves as a
kind of rebuke against
Hopkins and Stearne
514
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:15,640
for everything that
they've been doing,
515
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,840
and particularly the way in
which they've been doing it.
516
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,360
Inevitably, they're going to
come to the attention of those
517
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,080
who don't agree with
them, and therefore that
518
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,280
they are going to find that
there'll be enemies who are
519
00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:28,760
throwing rocks in their path.
520
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,440
[Narrator] Despite murmurs of
opposition to
521
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,000
the witch-finders' methods,
522
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,360
John Lowes is still
brought to the stand to
523
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,800
face trial as a witch.
524
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:45,920
[Malcom Gaskill] The thing about
the court of Oyer and Terminator
525
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,480
is that it's not
skeptical of witchcraft,
526
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,760
it's only skeptical
about certain methods,
527
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,320
and, of course, there is
evidence against John Lowes.
528
00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:00,040
Villagers have sort of dirt on
John Lowes going back for years,
529
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,800
so this does become very
convincing to the jury,
530
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,840
even if some of the methods
are disapproved by the judge.
531
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,600
In the end, it's the jury
that is going to decide.
532
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,200
And the jury decide that
the evidence is sufficient
533
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,800
to find John Lowes
guilty of witchcraft.
534
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,800
So I think we can imagine that
John Lowes must be in a state
535
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,880
of utter exhaustion and despair.
536
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,800
The judge passed the
sentence of death upon him,
537
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:30,320
which he has, of
course, he has to do.
538
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,120
And then August 27th,
John Lowes mounts the
539
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:36,520
ladder up to the gallows.
540
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,400
But John Lowes, as a minister,
asks that he can conduct
541
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:44,480
his own funeral service.
542
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,080
An act of defiance
against the witch-finders
543
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:51,440
who had brought
him to his death.
544
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,040
[Alison Rowlands] I think he
was showing that he was still a
545
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,680
minister of the cloth, that
he wasn't a witch, that he
546
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,320
was trying to sort of
consign his own soul and the
547
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,600
soul of the other people
being executed with him.
548
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:09,320
He's not giving in to the
court's guilty verdict.
549
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,320
He's saying, "No, I'm not
guilty, I'm not a witch.
550
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,680
"I'm still a minister of God
who can perform this sort of
551
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,720
necessary ritual as I am dying."
552
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,840
[ROPE STRETCHING]
553
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,280
[Malcom Gaskill] So there's a
tremendous amount of public
554
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:34,640
interest in these witch trials.
555
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,160
Some of it is enthusiastic
and supportive,
556
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,280
some of it's rather skeptical.
557
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,800
But a lot of this is passing
through the London presses,
558
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,640
so there are pamphlets,
there are printed ballads,
559
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,280
which are in fact about witches,
and there are also what they
560
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,440
would have called news sheets.
561
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,400
This is spreading the
news of the witch hunts.
562
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,520
[Narrator] As his fame
increases, Hopkins continues his
563
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,200
hunt, stopping in the coastal
town of Aldborough
564
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:04,840
before pushing into Norfolk.
565
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,480
[Malcom Gaskill] All towns in
England, including Aldborough,
566
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,720
are under very significant
economic pressure,
567
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:15,560
because of the war.
568
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,480
High taxes have been levied,
horses have been requisitioned,
569
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,480
all sorts of property
has been requisitioned
570
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,960
by the parliamentary forces,
so that everybody is
571
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:26,960
strapped for cash.
572
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:33,880
This is bubbling under at the
time of increasing convictions,
573
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,280
increasing witch trials,
increasing numbers of
574
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:37,600
witches in the jails.
575
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,680
It's just this sense of,
"Can we afford this?
576
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,760
"We should pay for it," and is
this money being well spent?
577
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,800
[Narrator] In Aldborough, seven
people
578
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:50,600
are accused
of witchcraft.
579
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,480
At their trial, five
months later, all
580
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,200
seven are found guilty.
581
00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:00,800
But the executions and Hopkins'
fees cost a staggering ยฃ40,
582
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,480
one-seventh of the town's
entire annual budget.
583
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,600
[Malcom Gaskill] So the
evidence we have
584
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:12,520
is that
Hopkins stays in local inns,
585
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,640
he runs up a tab, not
excessively, just really
586
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:17,600
for bed and board,
but, you know, still
587
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,080
costs that someone is
going to have to meet,
588
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,080
and that will always be
the local authority,
589
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,680
and the local authority will
pass it on to the local people.
590
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,400
It becomes an
expensive procedure,
591
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,640
just the execution of
a witch costs a pound,
592
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,320
which is a lot of
money in those days.
593
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,760
These costs do
start to build up.
594
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,480
I think there's not really
actually very much evidence
595
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,920
that he was extracting
huge amounts of money
596
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:44,280
from local people.
597
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,080
[Marion Gibson] I don't think
he's really even
598
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:46,840
doing it for glory.
599
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,120
I think he's doing it because he
feels it's his religious duty.
600
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,160
He was put on this earth
to go after witches.
601
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,120
[Malcom Gaskill] Hopkins, to
some extent,
602
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:58,720
is the victim of
his own success.
603
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,520
The more he does, the
more his fame grows,
604
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,320
the more work he gets, but
this inevitably is going
605
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,080
to attract adverse comment
about the things that he does.
606
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,880
You start to feel that Hopkins
is going to run out of time
607
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:14,160
and political support.
608
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,560
[Alison Rowlands] As Hopkins
and Stearne move further away
from
609
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,880
Essex and Suffolk,
people are a bit less
610
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,960
keen on their methods,
they're a bit less keen
611
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:34,600
on their intervention.
612
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:39,080
So by 1646, their efforts are
being met with less enthusiasm,
613
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:40,760
and this is particularly
the case with a man
614
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:42,040
called John Gaul.
615
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:48,280
He's also a Puritan minister,
and basically John Gaul
616
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,040
is very, very critical
of the witch-finders.
617
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,720
He doesn't want them
coming to his parish,
618
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:55,840
he doesn't want them
encouraging his parishioners
619
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:57,800
to name witches.
620
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,520
He thinks they're
uneducated upstarts
621
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,800
who have no authority
or training to do
622
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:05,880
what they're doing, which
is kind of actually true.
623
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,480
[Malcom Gaskill] By
1646, John Gaul
624
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,240
is one
of many men in England
625
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,960
who wants this world
turned upside down
626
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,120
that England's become during the
Civil War to be righted again.
627
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,640
So he wants proper procedure,
proper social relationships,
628
00:34:21,720 --> 00:34:22,920
proper law and order.
629
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,560
Witch-finding to John
Gaul represents the
630
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:32,160
worst kind of example
of men exploiting the
631
00:34:32,240 --> 00:34:35,120
breakdown of law and
order for their own ends.
632
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,360
[Alison Rowlands] So what John
Gaul does is he preaches
633
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,240
against the witch-finders and
against witch-finding,
634
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,160
and then he publishes the
sermons that he's preached
635
00:34:45,240 --> 00:34:48,640
against the witch-finders in a
book called Cases of Conscience,
636
00:34:48,720 --> 00:34:51,880
and it's really a very
impassioned criticism.
637
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,360
He never names them
as Hopkins and Stearne,
638
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,520
but, of course, everybody knew
who he was talking about.
639
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,720
And he basically says they're
whipping up popular fanaticism,
640
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,640
they have no real expertise, no
warrant for what they're doing,
641
00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:05,000
they're acting illegally.
642
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,520
[Malcom Gaskill] By this point
in 1646,
643
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,440
there's a lot of
adverse opinion
644
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,200
which is being spoken
of in gossip networks,
645
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,960
but some of it is also
finding its way to print,
646
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,840
not just John Gaul,
but there are also
647
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,280
comments made by others
about the fact that
648
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,080
witch-finding is out of control.
649
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,080
So the First Civil War
ends in June 1646.
650
00:35:35,240 --> 00:35:36,920
[Marion Gibson] The Civil War
ends with a
651
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:37,960
parliamentarian
victory,
652
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,720
meaning that Parliament has
assumed authority in the country
653
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,920
and it no longer rests with
the king, as it has done
654
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,560
in all the previous centuries
that people can remember.
655
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,800
[Malcom Gaskill] Soldiers start
returning, the economy's been
656
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,600
severely disrupted,
there is great poverty
657
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:56,720
and dislocation,
there's disease
658
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,280
spreading as well, and
so England is still
659
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,240
in a considerable state.
660
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,720
Things become more dangerous, in
a sense, than they were before.
661
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:08,440
Soldiers come home
from the front,
662
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,400
they find their families
have been disrupted,
663
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,120
some will find their
relatives have been executed.
664
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,680
Hopkins and Stearne are in a
pretty difficult position
665
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:17,640
as the Civil War
comes to an end.
666
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,440
So Hopkins is invited into
the town of Kings Lynn.
667
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,640
It seems that he is
actually welcomed there
668
00:36:25,720 --> 00:36:28,120
like some kind of
conquering godly hero
669
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,520
and feted in the streets.
670
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:34,560
But there are eight who tried
and six of them acquitted.
671
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,920
It's very difficult to know
exactly what happened.
672
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,280
It may well be that the jury
themselves were skeptical,
673
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,880
not of witchcraft, but
of the methods and the
674
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:45,720
evidence which were used.
675
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,520
So this is deeply
humiliating for Hopkins.
676
00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:55,480
[Alison Rowlands] And then in
1647, some
677
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,200
of the magistrates
in Norfolk
678
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,840
begin to question what Hopkins
and Stearne are doing as well.
679
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:04,680
[Malcom Gaskill] There are even
more acquittals.
680
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,120
This is a sign that the
magic, the glamour,
681
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,200
that he has in getting
convictions seems
682
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:10,160
to be running out.
683
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:13,280
[Marion Gibson] Things
have become very
684
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,280
difficult for
him indeed.
685
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,720
Some local gentlemen, he
says, have drawn up a
686
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,520
list of questions for
him, which they present
687
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:22,720
to him at the assize.
688
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:24,840
So one of the questions,
for example, asks if
689
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:26,200
he is a witch himself.
690
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,920
It says, "Well, if you know
so much about witches,
691
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,120
"surely you are a witch too."
692
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,920
A lot of the questions he's
asked are about his methods.
693
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,320
People say to him, "Are these
people not just confessing
694
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,560
"because you've put
words into their mouths?
695
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,080
"Are you not just
confessing because you
696
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:43,720
keep them awake all night?
697
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:45,440
"Is this not incredibly cruel?
698
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,480
What are you trying to do?"
699
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,200
And he does find it very hard
to answer those questions.
700
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,480
He just restates over
and over again the thing
701
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,680
that he's been saying,
presumably for months,
702
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,640
which is that these
are effective methods,
703
00:37:57,720 --> 00:38:00,160
they've been authorised
by justices of the peace,
704
00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:01,480
by the magistrates.
705
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:05,760
He's asked very
specific questions
706
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,800
about why there is this
particular sexualised obsession,
707
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:10,720
why there is this particular
obsession with motherhood.
708
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,440
What is it that Hopkins and
Stearne are fretting about
709
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:17,680
when they strip women naked
and get other women to examine
710
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:19,280
them for demonic marks?
711
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,640
That's quite a dangerous thing
to be asked in front of a court,
712
00:38:25,720 --> 00:38:27,840
which is holding a witch trial.
713
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:32,200
What if, heaven forbid, they
start walking and watching him?
714
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,680
[Malcom Gaskill] This is the
beginning of the end for them.
715
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,400
Not only are his days as a
witchfinder coming to an end,
716
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:38,800
but so is his life.
717
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,360
By the time that Hopkins writes
a self-defensive pamphlet
718
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,280
against the charges that
have been put to him
719
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,800
by the gentlemen of Norwich,
he's probably dying.
720
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:00,800
Probably from the start
of the witch hunt,
721
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,200
he's almost certainly
been suffering from
722
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:04,760
consumption of the lungs.
723
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,280
There's always a possibility
that Hopkins already knew
724
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,400
that he was dying and
that there was an added
725
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:12,840
urgency to his work.
726
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,440
He's in kind of legacy mode,
he's already realising
727
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,800
that his time is up and
he needs to actually make
728
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,680
this his lasting statement
about the sincerity of
729
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,240
his motives and what he
was trying to achieve.
730
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,120
[Marion Gibson] I think it
really got to him, those
731
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,840
questions, and he wrote the book
as a response to that.
732
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:38,480
It's called A
Discovery Of Witches.
733
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,080
It has a lovely woodcut
of Matthew Hopkins
734
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:42,800
and the witches and
their familiars,
735
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,520
and it's really that that
cements his reputation
736
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,720
as an important man of his time.
737
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:51,880
It's that book and
it's that one picture
738
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,040
that makes us remember
him the way we do.
739
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:57,600
[Alison Rowlands] It was
organised in a sort of
740
00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:58,680
a Q&A
method.
741
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,200
It's sort of a criticism and
then his response to it.
742
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,240
So it's very clearly structured.
743
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:08,840
This is what they said about me
and this is how I'm responding.
744
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:09,960
[Malcom Gaskill] The tone of
the book
745
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,360
is extremely
self-defensive,
746
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,240
rather embittered, I
think, that such things
747
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,400
should be said against
him when actually Hopkins
748
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:21,520
believed that he was a
sincere godly warrior
749
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:25,120
whose only motivation really
was to root out wicked witches
750
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:26,760
from East Anglia's communities.
751
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,680
[coughing]
752
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:33,000
We simply
don't know how
753
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,480
many copies were printed or
how many copies were sold,
754
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:41,160
but with the subject matter and
with this garish illustration,
755
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,240
I think we can assume
that it was actually
756
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:45,360
a bit of a bestseller.
757
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,280
[Marion Gibson] Shortly after
he publishes his book,
758
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:57,360
Matthew
Hopkins dies.
759
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:01,320
He dies very young,
probably still in his 20s.
760
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,920
It's a very quiet end
to a very noisy career,
761
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:11,160
a quiet death of a young
man, tragic in its own way,
762
00:41:11,240 --> 00:41:14,400
in a small village, but
it does bring to an end
763
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,680
the witch hunt that he and
others had started in 1645.
764
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,080
[Malcolm Gaskill] Matthew
Hopkins, after his death,
765
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,160
becomes a kind of a folk devil.
766
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,280
Partly, I think, because of that
famous woodcut on his book,
767
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:29,560
The Discovery Of Witches.
768
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,040
Hopkins has been called many
things over the years -
769
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:39,120
the Napoleon of Witch-Finding,
the Foulest Of Foul Parasites,
770
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:40,560
the Grand Inquisitor.
771
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:47,600
But the name with which he will
be associated for all time
772
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:50,160
is the name that he gave
himself, and that was
773
00:41:50,240 --> 00:41:51,360
Witchfinder General.
774
00:41:56,720 --> 00:41:58,760
[Marion Gibson] After Matthew
Hopkins' death,
775
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:00,000
he was quite
widely mocked.
776
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,000
Many people did not agree
with what he had done,
777
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:06,160
and even to his supporters,
it must have seemed that his
778
00:42:06,240 --> 00:42:08,280
crusade had ended in failure.
779
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:12,080
John Stearne outlives
Matthew Hopkins,
780
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,840
even though he's probably an
older man, and he goes home.
781
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,040
And he certainly felt
he'd been hard done by,
782
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:19,600
and he felt under threat
as a result of his death.
783
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:21,200
He felt under threat
as a result of his
784
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:22,760
witch-finding activities.
785
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:24,520
He regards himself as
somebody who's been
786
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,600
cancelled and silenced,
and that's the last that
787
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:31,000
we hear of him protesting
from his village home.
788
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:38,000
[Diane Purkiss] There never are
again persecutions in
789
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,480
East Anglia on the scale of the
Hopkins trials.
790
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,520
In that sense, it
does kind of go away.
791
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,200
Hopkins is a one-off.
792
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,600
[Malcom Gaskill] What you find
is that across the whole of the
793
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:53,800
16th and 17th centuries
in England, we know about
794
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:57,600
1,000 trials happened
and probably around
795
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,200
about 500 executions.
796
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,440
But the extraordinary thing is
that a quarter of those trials
797
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,560
happened in East Anglia
in the years 1645-7.
798
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,800
So in East Anglia,
which amounted to 300,
799
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,760
people are interrogated
and questioned,
800
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:15,960
and 100 of them are executed.
801
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:25,200
We always know the names
of Matthew Hopkins and
John Stearne,
802
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:28,080
but it's also really
important to remember
803
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,520
the names of the people whose
deaths they orchestrated.
804
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,680
So names of people like
Margaret Moore of Sutton
805
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:38,400
or Rose Hallibred from
St Osith in Essex.
806
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:43,120
[Marion Gibson] Ellen Driver,
Mary Scrutton, Margaret Wyard,
807
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:47,880
Mary Vervey, Priscilla
Collett and Elizabeth Clark.
808
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,520
[music]
63891
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