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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:06,207 --> 00:00:06,374 . 2 00:00:06,407 --> 00:00:06,840 [dramatic music] 3 00:00:09,143 --> 00:00:16,317 * 4 00:00:21,289 --> 00:00:22,690 - Two counts of murder 5 00:00:22,723 --> 00:00:24,592 with special circumstances 6 00:00:24,625 --> 00:00:27,128 have been filed against Erik and Lyle Menendez. 7 00:00:27,161 --> 00:00:28,529 - He told me everything. 8 00:00:28,562 --> 00:00:30,164 How you shot your parents. 9 00:00:30,198 --> 00:00:32,133 - I had to tell somebody. I wanted to kill myself. 10 00:00:32,166 --> 00:00:34,668 - You trust a doctor more than your own brother. 11 00:00:34,702 --> 00:00:36,537 - I think you and I should go back in and talk. 12 00:00:36,570 --> 00:00:38,772 - I don't have anything to say to you. 13 00:00:38,806 --> 00:00:41,542 Good luck, Dr. Oziel. 14 00:00:41,575 --> 00:00:43,144 - If you kick me out, 15 00:00:43,177 --> 00:00:45,346 I'll go to the cops, and I'll tell them 16 00:00:45,379 --> 00:00:46,814 that Lyle and Erik confessed to you. 17 00:00:46,847 --> 00:00:48,449 - You do that, 18 00:00:48,482 --> 00:00:50,284 and I'll be the least of your problems. 19 00:00:50,318 --> 00:00:52,120 - A warrant was executed 20 00:00:52,153 --> 00:00:55,089 to seize tapes from a Beverly Hills psychologist. 21 00:00:55,123 --> 00:00:57,158 - Are you gonna take our case? 22 00:00:57,191 --> 00:00:58,692 - If I feel I can believe in it, 23 00:00:58,726 --> 00:01:00,428 I will do it. 24 00:01:00,461 --> 00:01:02,396 Mr. Reiner, who wants to be our attorney general, 25 00:01:02,430 --> 00:01:05,299 is at war with the most basic social contract 26 00:01:05,333 --> 00:01:08,136 we have: doctor-patient privilege. 27 00:01:08,169 --> 00:01:10,471 Someone has to stop him. 28 00:01:10,504 --> 00:01:12,240 And we will. 29 00:01:12,273 --> 00:01:15,243 [mournful music] 30 00:01:15,276 --> 00:01:22,483 * 31 00:01:44,472 --> 00:01:47,641 [cameras snapping rapidly] 32 00:01:53,547 --> 00:01:55,616 - You don't owe those parasites a photo. 33 00:01:55,649 --> 00:01:56,884 Just breathe. 34 00:01:56,917 --> 00:01:58,652 Keep your eyes on me. 35 00:01:58,686 --> 00:02:01,422 - Megan Lang, NBC News. 36 00:02:01,455 --> 00:02:04,625 So very sorry for your loss. 37 00:02:04,658 --> 00:02:07,495 * 38 00:02:07,528 --> 00:02:09,497 - Defendants Erik and Lyle Menendez, 39 00:02:09,530 --> 00:02:11,899 you've been charged with the murder 40 00:02:11,932 --> 00:02:13,901 of Mary Louise Menendez 41 00:02:13,934 --> 00:02:16,537 and for Joe Say Menendez. 42 00:02:16,570 --> 00:02:18,239 How do you plead? 43 00:02:18,272 --> 00:02:19,940 - Not guilty. - Not guilty. 44 00:02:19,973 --> 00:02:22,343 - Defendants are remanded to custody. 45 00:02:22,376 --> 00:02:24,178 - Your Honor, the district attorney 46 00:02:24,212 --> 00:02:26,314 has been leaking information to the media. 47 00:02:26,347 --> 00:02:28,316 I know Mr. Reiner is running for attorney general, 48 00:02:28,349 --> 00:02:29,717 but that doesn't give him the right 49 00:02:29,750 --> 00:02:30,784 to poison the jury pool. 50 00:02:30,818 --> 00:02:32,520 - Mr. Alhadeff, 51 00:02:32,553 --> 00:02:34,522 you tell your boss to stop the leaks. 52 00:02:34,555 --> 00:02:37,225 We're adjourned. [bangs gavel] 53 00:02:37,258 --> 00:02:39,793 - Remember: no talking to anyone. 54 00:02:39,827 --> 00:02:42,530 Okay? 55 00:02:42,563 --> 00:02:46,934 [press all talking at once] 56 00:02:46,967 --> 00:02:49,437 - It's going to take more than a warning from a judge 57 00:02:49,470 --> 00:02:51,339 to shut Mr. Reiner up. 58 00:02:51,372 --> 00:02:52,706 A court order is what is needed 59 00:02:52,740 --> 00:02:54,942 to keep him from turning this whole case 60 00:02:54,975 --> 00:02:57,878 into some kind of a reality TV show, 61 00:02:57,911 --> 00:03:00,814 and he can stand in front of all the flags he wants to 62 00:03:00,848 --> 00:03:01,949 at his press conferences. 63 00:03:01,982 --> 00:03:03,584 Does not hide the fact 64 00:03:03,617 --> 00:03:06,454 that he is trying to trample on our clients' rights. 65 00:03:06,487 --> 00:03:07,955 - Leslie, do you think that 66 00:03:07,988 --> 00:03:09,923 the DA is biased against your clients? 67 00:03:09,957 --> 00:03:11,725 - I don't know about the DA. 68 00:03:11,759 --> 00:03:13,761 But I do know that the media 69 00:03:13,794 --> 00:03:15,263 doesn't like rich people. 70 00:03:15,296 --> 00:03:16,830 And with all the Wall Street scandals 71 00:03:16,864 --> 00:03:19,233 and the white-collar crimes over the last 10 years, 72 00:03:19,267 --> 00:03:20,301 who can blame them? 73 00:03:20,334 --> 00:03:21,602 But what you are doing 74 00:03:21,635 --> 00:03:23,537 is you are scapegoating my clients 75 00:03:23,571 --> 00:03:25,306 because their parents were rich. 76 00:03:25,339 --> 00:03:26,874 You called them spoiled, 77 00:03:26,907 --> 00:03:29,443 you called them entitled. If you met Erik and Lyle, 78 00:03:29,477 --> 00:03:31,279 you would see that they are not spoiled, 79 00:03:31,312 --> 00:03:32,580 and they know 80 00:03:32,613 --> 00:03:34,682 the only thing they are entitled to 81 00:03:34,715 --> 00:03:36,250 is a fair hearing. 82 00:03:36,284 --> 00:03:37,918 And we're going to make absolutely sure 83 00:03:37,951 --> 00:03:39,820 that they get that. Thank you. 84 00:03:39,853 --> 00:03:41,322 Excuse me. 85 00:03:41,355 --> 00:03:44,325 [suspenseful music] 86 00:03:44,358 --> 00:03:46,994 * 87 00:03:47,027 --> 00:03:49,930 [reporters calling, cameras snapping] 88 00:03:49,963 --> 00:03:57,371 * 89 00:04:00,441 --> 00:04:01,875 - Mrs. Menendez, can you tell us 90 00:04:01,909 --> 00:04:03,010 about your grandsons? 91 00:04:03,043 --> 00:04:04,745 - Mama. Mama. 92 00:04:04,778 --> 00:04:10,818 * 93 00:04:10,851 --> 00:04:12,886 - [distantly] You are charged with the murder 94 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:14,588 of Mary Louise Menendez 95 00:04:14,622 --> 00:04:16,724 and Joe Say Menendez. 96 00:04:16,757 --> 00:04:18,892 * 97 00:04:18,926 --> 00:04:20,461 - They're smiling. Look at them. 98 00:04:20,494 --> 00:04:22,330 Why the hell are they smiling? 99 00:04:22,363 --> 00:04:25,299 * 100 00:04:25,333 --> 00:04:27,368 - As Mr. Chaleff explained, 101 00:04:27,401 --> 00:04:29,337 Ms. Lansing knows the case inside and out, 102 00:04:29,370 --> 00:04:30,738 and she's a lot tougher 103 00:04:30,771 --> 00:04:33,541 than her very good looks might suggest. 104 00:04:33,574 --> 00:04:35,376 - Lyle, are you okay with the change? 105 00:04:35,409 --> 00:04:36,977 - Chaleff thinks we're going to lose. 106 00:04:37,010 --> 00:04:38,746 That's why he quit. 107 00:04:38,779 --> 00:04:40,714 - No, he withdrew to give us a better chance of winning. 108 00:04:40,748 --> 00:04:42,750 - He said that they were going to split us up. 109 00:04:42,783 --> 00:04:44,084 Separate trials? 110 00:04:44,117 --> 00:04:45,853 - That's what the prosecution wants. 111 00:04:45,886 --> 00:04:47,655 They're going to try to turn you against each other, 112 00:04:47,688 --> 00:04:49,089 but we're not going to let that happen, are we? 113 00:04:49,122 --> 00:04:51,425 - Absolutely not. We stick together. 114 00:04:51,459 --> 00:04:53,861 As long as we're together, we'll be okay. 115 00:04:53,894 --> 00:04:56,497 - Right. It's Lyle and me. 116 00:04:56,530 --> 00:04:58,065 - The only prosecution witness 117 00:04:58,098 --> 00:05:00,568 is Oziel's mistress, Judalon Smyth. 118 00:05:00,601 --> 00:05:02,035 - She's a flake. She used to date 119 00:05:02,069 --> 00:05:03,537 Al Goldstein, the porno king. 120 00:05:03,571 --> 00:05:05,539 - It makes you wonder about Oziel. 121 00:05:05,573 --> 00:05:07,675 How did he end up as your therapist? 122 00:05:07,708 --> 00:05:10,611 - Uh, Mom's shrink recommended him. 123 00:05:10,644 --> 00:05:12,513 - First thing we're gonna do 124 00:05:12,546 --> 00:05:15,082 is get his audio notes and tapes of you thrown out. 125 00:05:15,115 --> 00:05:16,850 Did you give Oziel permission 126 00:05:16,884 --> 00:05:18,819 to share the details of your sessions with anyone? 127 00:05:18,852 --> 00:05:20,588 - Well, when I started seeing him, 128 00:05:20,621 --> 00:05:22,122 my parents made him tell them what I said. 129 00:05:22,155 --> 00:05:24,625 - That won't affect the privilege now. 130 00:05:24,658 --> 00:05:27,060 The DA mentioned a threat of violence. 131 00:05:27,094 --> 00:05:28,962 Did you ever threaten Oziel? 132 00:05:28,996 --> 00:05:30,798 - No. - No way. 133 00:05:30,831 --> 00:05:33,434 - Then it's still privileged. We're gonna keep those out. 134 00:05:33,467 --> 00:05:36,437 [dramatic music] 135 00:05:36,470 --> 00:05:37,971 - The network gave us May 17th. 136 00:05:38,005 --> 00:05:39,640 - That's smack in the middle of the sweeps. 137 00:05:39,673 --> 00:05:41,108 What are the other networks doing? 138 00:05:41,141 --> 00:05:42,710 - CBS will do it on "60 Minutes," 139 00:05:42,743 --> 00:05:44,612 NBC has a special. But we've got Diane. 140 00:05:44,645 --> 00:05:46,614 - Sexy Sawyer. Can't beat that. 141 00:05:46,647 --> 00:05:48,081 - I'll get an exclusive with Grandma; 142 00:05:48,115 --> 00:05:49,717 by the end of the week, we'll get Oziel, 143 00:05:49,750 --> 00:05:52,753 all the key players lining up for team ABC. 144 00:05:52,786 --> 00:05:58,426 - Judalon, there was $14 million involved in this. 145 00:05:58,459 --> 00:06:00,594 But you did what you did, and that's what you did. 146 00:06:00,628 --> 00:06:02,863 I suggest you have no comment to the press 147 00:06:02,896 --> 00:06:04,798 unless you want things disclosed that you don't-- 148 00:06:04,832 --> 00:06:06,900 - Really, Jerry? Well, I just called to say 149 00:06:06,934 --> 00:06:09,603 that the boys are in jail and I'm not dead. 150 00:06:09,637 --> 00:06:11,405 And you said if I went to the police, 151 00:06:11,439 --> 00:06:12,506 that I'd be dead in two minutes. 152 00:06:12,540 --> 00:06:13,807 - Well, guess what. 153 00:06:13,841 --> 00:06:16,910 It's gonna take a little longer. 154 00:06:16,944 --> 00:06:19,447 * 155 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:21,415 - Now he'll cooperate. 156 00:06:21,449 --> 00:06:25,486 Let's talk about the guns. 157 00:06:25,519 --> 00:06:28,155 You said you heard Erik talk about guns. 158 00:06:28,188 --> 00:06:29,990 - No, Jerry told me. 159 00:06:30,023 --> 00:06:32,159 Erik said they bought the guns 160 00:06:32,192 --> 00:06:34,094 in a store near San Diego. 161 00:06:34,127 --> 00:06:35,729 It had security cameras. 162 00:06:35,763 --> 00:06:37,498 Erik was worried that they were filmed. 163 00:06:37,531 --> 00:06:39,633 After the murders, 164 00:06:39,667 --> 00:06:41,101 they tossed the guns off Mulholland, 165 00:06:41,134 --> 00:06:43,036 about a mile west of Coldwater. 166 00:06:43,070 --> 00:06:46,774 * 167 00:06:46,807 --> 00:06:48,075 - Hey, you four. 168 00:06:48,108 --> 00:06:52,580 Head over to that ravine. You two, and you guys, 169 00:06:52,613 --> 00:06:54,748 Hey watch out. That's poison oak over there. 170 00:06:54,782 --> 00:06:57,651 Hey! So, 171 00:06:57,685 --> 00:07:01,622 only lost three Explorer Scouts so far. 172 00:07:01,655 --> 00:07:03,090 What do you got? 173 00:07:03,123 --> 00:07:05,192 - Gun stores within two miles of the freeway 174 00:07:05,225 --> 00:07:07,528 between Newport and San Diego. 175 00:07:07,561 --> 00:07:08,996 - That's a lot of gun stores. 176 00:07:09,029 --> 00:07:10,698 - There's more bad news. 177 00:07:10,731 --> 00:07:12,700 DMV got a request to cancel 178 00:07:12,733 --> 00:07:15,002 the California plates for Erik's Ford Escort. 179 00:07:15,035 --> 00:07:16,504 It's been sent out of state. 180 00:07:16,537 --> 00:07:19,072 No idea where. 181 00:07:19,106 --> 00:07:20,641 - The biggest problem people have 182 00:07:20,674 --> 00:07:22,510 with them is that they're wealthy. 183 00:07:22,543 --> 00:07:25,078 - "Rich, greedy brats," according to my husband. 184 00:07:25,112 --> 00:07:27,848 As if it's their fault they were born rich. 185 00:07:27,881 --> 00:07:30,117 - There's this shopping spree. Watches, a Porsche, 186 00:07:30,150 --> 00:07:32,486 condos, a restaurant... 187 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:34,555 - How did they spend money before? 188 00:07:34,588 --> 00:07:36,089 - Well, Lyle's had a credit card since he was 15. 189 00:07:36,123 --> 00:07:38,826 Lives in a condo his father bought him in Princeton. 190 00:07:38,859 --> 00:07:40,594 - What kind of car did he drive? 191 00:07:40,628 --> 00:07:43,664 - Cars. A three-year-old Alfa and a Beamer. 192 00:07:43,697 --> 00:07:45,566 Erik had an '87 Escort. 193 00:07:45,599 --> 00:07:47,701 - Hard to be a rich brat in an Escort. 194 00:07:47,735 --> 00:07:49,603 - So mostly, their spending after the murders 195 00:07:49,637 --> 00:07:50,938 was the same as it was before. 196 00:07:50,971 --> 00:07:52,239 - It's perception. 197 00:07:52,272 --> 00:07:53,574 People think they have advantages 198 00:07:53,607 --> 00:07:54,608 because they're privileged, 199 00:07:54,642 --> 00:07:56,209 and now that privilege 200 00:07:56,243 --> 00:07:58,746 is being used against them. 201 00:07:58,779 --> 00:08:02,550 So next problem: the notes that Oziel dictated 202 00:08:02,583 --> 00:08:04,184 after sessions with Erik and Lyle 203 00:08:04,217 --> 00:08:06,186 on Halloween, and there's a tape 204 00:08:06,219 --> 00:08:07,588 of a December session. 205 00:08:07,621 --> 00:08:08,856 We need to know what's on them. 206 00:08:08,889 --> 00:08:10,591 - I've got a friend from the academy 207 00:08:10,624 --> 00:08:12,926 at the Beverly Hills PD. I'll ask her. 208 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,128 - Cindy has more connections than AT&T. 209 00:08:15,162 --> 00:08:16,697 That's why I hired her. 210 00:08:16,730 --> 00:08:17,998 - That, and I'm the only investigator 211 00:08:18,031 --> 00:08:20,568 who can put up with you. 212 00:08:20,601 --> 00:08:22,135 Um, this is what I've got on Oziel. 213 00:08:22,169 --> 00:08:23,871 His license was suspended in '86 214 00:08:23,904 --> 00:08:25,606 for improper billing practices. 215 00:08:25,639 --> 00:08:26,740 There are two complaints pending 216 00:08:26,774 --> 00:08:28,175 with the Board of Psychology, 217 00:08:28,208 --> 00:08:30,578 one alleging that he raped a patient 218 00:08:30,611 --> 00:08:32,680 and tried to strangle her with a phone cord. 219 00:08:32,713 --> 00:08:34,548 - Jesus, why isn't he in jail? 220 00:08:34,582 --> 00:08:36,249 - Good question. 221 00:08:36,283 --> 00:08:38,251 Now, you may have heard 222 00:08:38,285 --> 00:08:40,053 that there's a confession on those tapes. 223 00:08:40,087 --> 00:08:42,155 There probably is. 224 00:08:42,189 --> 00:08:44,024 Between these four walls and these four women, 225 00:08:44,057 --> 00:08:46,994 Erik told me they did it. 226 00:08:47,027 --> 00:08:48,929 - Lyle hasn't admitted anything to me. 227 00:08:48,962 --> 00:08:50,631 - They still deserve the best defense 228 00:08:50,664 --> 00:08:53,000 we can give them. 229 00:08:53,033 --> 00:08:55,636 - Are you sure about this one, Les? 230 00:08:55,669 --> 00:08:58,305 These boys shot their mother in the face. 231 00:08:58,338 --> 00:09:02,342 - Right. We're all mothers here. 232 00:09:02,375 --> 00:09:04,144 Cindy and Marcia know about my mother. 233 00:09:04,177 --> 00:09:07,114 She...put me last from the second I was born. 234 00:09:07,147 --> 00:09:09,650 She opposed me every change she got. 235 00:09:09,683 --> 00:09:11,719 Still, I love her. 236 00:09:11,752 --> 00:09:13,954 I--I can't imagine 237 00:09:13,987 --> 00:09:16,857 the kind of pain that must exist 238 00:09:16,890 --> 00:09:18,626 between a mother and child 239 00:09:18,659 --> 00:09:20,761 to provoke that kind of violence. 240 00:09:20,794 --> 00:09:22,329 - Well, the father was authoritarian, 241 00:09:22,362 --> 00:09:25,298 verbally abusive. Maybe the mother was too. 242 00:09:25,332 --> 00:09:27,067 - There's still huge pieces missing here, 243 00:09:27,100 --> 00:09:29,603 but we'll find them. 244 00:09:31,672 --> 00:09:33,340 * 245 00:09:33,373 --> 00:09:36,944 - We hear you filed a motion to get your tapes back. 246 00:09:36,977 --> 00:09:38,812 Well, we want them kept out of court too. 247 00:09:38,846 --> 00:09:40,814 We can help each other. 248 00:09:40,848 --> 00:09:42,983 - I'm not aligned with either side. 249 00:09:43,016 --> 00:09:44,952 - Understood. Then you won't mind answering 250 00:09:44,985 --> 00:09:47,721 some questions. 251 00:09:47,755 --> 00:09:49,757 Was Judalon Smyth in your waiting room 252 00:09:49,790 --> 00:09:51,659 during your sessions with Erik and Lyle? 253 00:09:51,692 --> 00:09:54,962 - No. Anyway, there's two padded doors 254 00:09:54,995 --> 00:09:56,930 between here and the waiting room. 255 00:09:56,964 --> 00:09:59,132 - Then how did she know what was said in the sessions? 256 00:09:59,166 --> 00:10:00,367 Did you tell her? 257 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:02,069 - No, of course not. 258 00:10:02,102 --> 00:10:04,137 I honor the doctor-patient privilege. 259 00:10:04,171 --> 00:10:06,740 In many ways, I feel like being a therapist is like 260 00:10:06,774 --> 00:10:08,108 a holy man, 261 00:10:08,141 --> 00:10:09,409 and there's a sacredness 262 00:10:09,442 --> 00:10:11,411 to the connections we forge. 263 00:10:11,444 --> 00:10:14,147 No, no, Judalon knows what she knows 264 00:10:14,181 --> 00:10:16,817 because she read my notes when she stayed with my family, 265 00:10:16,850 --> 00:10:18,385 and for the record, 266 00:10:18,418 --> 00:10:20,654 she was not a frightened person doing her civic duty 267 00:10:20,688 --> 00:10:22,089 when she went to the police. 268 00:10:22,122 --> 00:10:23,757 She was not in fear of the boys. 269 00:10:23,791 --> 00:10:25,125 She just wanted to destroy me. 270 00:10:25,158 --> 00:10:26,426 - But you told the police 271 00:10:26,459 --> 00:10:28,361 you felt threatened by Erik and Lyle? 272 00:10:28,395 --> 00:10:30,263 - Well, yes. Lyle did threaten me. 273 00:10:30,297 --> 00:10:32,199 - How did he do that? 274 00:10:32,232 --> 00:10:33,867 - He took my hand, looked me in the eye, 275 00:10:33,901 --> 00:10:36,904 and said, "Good luck, Dr. Oziel." 276 00:10:36,937 --> 00:10:38,405 - You took that as a threat? 277 00:10:38,438 --> 00:10:41,675 - It was said in a threatening manner. 278 00:10:41,709 --> 00:10:43,677 - Here. Show us. 279 00:10:49,149 --> 00:10:50,317 - Good luck... 280 00:10:50,350 --> 00:10:52,352 Dr. Oziel. 281 00:10:52,385 --> 00:10:54,421 Like that. 282 00:10:54,454 --> 00:10:56,423 With that way of fixing me in the eye. 283 00:10:56,456 --> 00:10:58,158 Between men, that's a veiled threat. 284 00:10:58,191 --> 00:11:00,994 - Yes, I know what a veiled threat is. 285 00:11:01,028 --> 00:11:02,295 So I'm confused. 286 00:11:02,329 --> 00:11:04,965 You filed a motion to get your tapes back, 287 00:11:04,998 --> 00:11:06,734 and then you gave the DA an excuse 288 00:11:06,767 --> 00:11:08,035 to use them as evidence 289 00:11:08,068 --> 00:11:09,336 with this business about threats. 290 00:11:09,369 --> 00:11:10,904 - Listen. 291 00:11:10,938 --> 00:11:12,973 I am in a tremendous amount of pain 292 00:11:13,006 --> 00:11:16,944 at the idea of testifying against former patients. 293 00:11:16,977 --> 00:11:18,846 But if the court orders me, I'm obligated to. 294 00:11:18,879 --> 00:11:20,781 - Yes, that's a nice speech. 295 00:11:20,814 --> 00:11:22,315 I think you're trying to cover something up. 296 00:11:22,349 --> 00:11:24,151 Like the fact that you milked them for sessions 297 00:11:24,184 --> 00:11:26,119 that never took place. - I resent that. 298 00:11:26,153 --> 00:11:27,788 I spoke with the boys' lawyer, 299 00:11:27,821 --> 00:11:29,089 Mr. Chaleff, and at his request-- 300 00:11:29,122 --> 00:11:31,224 - He's not their lawyer anymore--we are. 301 00:11:31,258 --> 00:11:34,227 [dramatic music] 302 00:11:34,261 --> 00:11:37,364 * 303 00:11:37,397 --> 00:11:39,800 Good luck, Dr. Oziel. 304 00:11:39,833 --> 00:11:47,040 * 305 00:11:52,379 --> 00:11:52,712 . 306 00:11:52,746 --> 00:11:53,113 [buzzer goes off] 307 00:11:54,982 --> 00:11:58,018 - There's seven inmates just in my unit named Menendez. 308 00:11:58,051 --> 00:12:00,387 Three are named Jose. 309 00:12:00,420 --> 00:12:02,322 - What happened to your hair? 310 00:12:02,355 --> 00:12:04,224 - [sighs] They confiscated the glue from my hairpiece. 311 00:12:04,257 --> 00:12:10,964 Ms. Lansing is working on getting it back. 312 00:12:10,998 --> 00:12:13,834 [low music] 313 00:12:13,867 --> 00:12:15,402 This is great. 314 00:12:15,435 --> 00:12:17,838 - [laughs] 315 00:12:17,871 --> 00:12:19,239 - I can't sleep. 316 00:12:19,272 --> 00:12:21,141 The lights are always on and I can't breathe. 317 00:12:21,174 --> 00:12:23,343 - You'll be out of here soon, baby. 318 00:12:23,376 --> 00:12:25,012 My parents say there's no way 319 00:12:25,045 --> 00:12:26,780 the police can use those tapes. 320 00:12:26,814 --> 00:12:29,216 - I just keep having nightmares about Mom, 321 00:12:29,249 --> 00:12:31,084 and Dad yelling at me. 322 00:12:31,118 --> 00:12:33,120 - Don't think about him. 323 00:12:33,153 --> 00:12:35,488 Think about me. 324 00:12:35,522 --> 00:12:40,493 Think about me waiting for you, baby. 325 00:12:40,527 --> 00:12:43,496 - [breathes deeply] 326 00:12:43,530 --> 00:12:47,968 - Look, I need your help, Jamie. 327 00:12:48,001 --> 00:12:49,236 I want you to tell the police 328 00:12:49,269 --> 00:12:50,838 that my dad made a pass at you. 329 00:12:50,871 --> 00:12:53,340 He grabbed you. 330 00:12:53,373 --> 00:12:55,375 - But he never did that. 331 00:12:55,408 --> 00:12:57,377 - Please. If they ask, just say it. 332 00:12:57,410 --> 00:13:00,180 - You said he liked me. 333 00:13:00,213 --> 00:13:02,315 Why would I lie? 334 00:13:02,349 --> 00:13:04,084 - Jamie, why do you think you got the sponsorship 335 00:13:04,117 --> 00:13:07,220 to play in Europe? 336 00:13:07,254 --> 00:13:10,824 My dad thought you weren't appropriate for me. 337 00:13:10,858 --> 00:13:12,225 So he put up the sponsorship money 338 00:13:12,259 --> 00:13:15,996 to get rid of you. 339 00:13:16,029 --> 00:13:17,831 So do it, please. 340 00:13:17,865 --> 00:13:19,132 For us. 341 00:13:19,166 --> 00:13:22,135 [dramatic music] 342 00:13:22,169 --> 00:13:25,005 - Sorry, no. 343 00:13:25,038 --> 00:13:27,007 If you showed me the guns, I'd remember who bought them. 344 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,076 - Believe me, miss, I wish we had guns to show you. 345 00:13:29,109 --> 00:13:31,144 - Les. 346 00:13:31,178 --> 00:13:33,280 Check the name on this one. 347 00:13:33,313 --> 00:13:35,215 - Donovan Goodreau. 348 00:13:35,248 --> 00:13:36,884 - Lyle's old roommate. 349 00:13:36,917 --> 00:13:38,919 He bought two 12 gauge Mossbergs, August 18th. 350 00:13:38,952 --> 00:13:42,155 - Says they checked his driver's license. 351 00:13:42,189 --> 00:13:45,292 - Hey, uh, would you have a security tape 352 00:13:45,325 --> 00:13:47,394 from August 18th last year? 353 00:13:47,427 --> 00:13:49,029 - Our camera doesn't work. 354 00:13:49,062 --> 00:13:51,865 We just keep it there to scare the bad guys away. 355 00:13:51,899 --> 00:13:53,433 [ominous music] 356 00:13:53,466 --> 00:13:55,368 - The New York cop who helped us 357 00:13:55,402 --> 00:13:57,237 with the Billionaire Boys Club. 358 00:13:57,270 --> 00:13:58,906 - Boggs. 359 00:13:58,939 --> 00:14:00,307 - I hope this number's still good. 360 00:14:00,340 --> 00:14:07,547 * 361 00:14:11,084 --> 00:14:12,485 - Detective Zoeller. 362 00:14:12,519 --> 00:14:14,221 Yeah, his alibi checks out. 363 00:14:14,254 --> 00:14:15,923 He was working here August 18th. 364 00:14:15,956 --> 00:14:18,058 - All right. Thank you, Detective Boggs. 365 00:14:18,091 --> 00:14:20,093 Any time you're in the neighborhood, give me a ring. 366 00:14:20,127 --> 00:14:22,329 - NYPD, at your service. 367 00:14:22,362 --> 00:14:25,598 * 368 00:14:25,632 --> 00:14:26,967 - Hello? 369 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:28,235 - Looks like you're off the hook. 370 00:14:28,268 --> 00:14:29,569 - For what? 371 00:14:29,602 --> 00:14:31,004 - Oh, your driver's license 372 00:14:31,038 --> 00:14:32,405 was used to buy two shotguns 373 00:14:32,439 --> 00:14:35,242 in San Diego, two days before the murder. 374 00:14:35,275 --> 00:14:37,610 You lend your license to anybody? 375 00:14:37,644 --> 00:14:39,612 - I-I lost it. I left it behind 376 00:14:39,646 --> 00:14:41,982 when Lyle threw me out of his dorm in Princeton. 377 00:14:42,015 --> 00:14:44,384 * 378 00:14:44,417 --> 00:14:47,287 - I think I said, "Good luck, Dr. Oziel." 379 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:48,688 Just, like, "Have a nice life." 380 00:14:48,721 --> 00:14:50,390 I wasn't ever planning to see him again. 381 00:14:50,423 --> 00:14:52,960 - Did you mean to threaten him? 382 00:14:52,993 --> 00:14:54,962 - No. I was mad at Erik. 383 00:14:54,995 --> 00:14:57,230 Oziel could go to the police. 384 00:14:57,264 --> 00:14:59,099 - Did you want to kill him? 385 00:14:59,132 --> 00:15:00,500 - No, I was just... 386 00:15:00,533 --> 00:15:02,435 annoyed. 387 00:15:02,469 --> 00:15:05,305 I-I think he had some idea to blackmail us, 388 00:15:05,338 --> 00:15:07,440 but I told Jerry Chaleff about Oziel. 389 00:15:07,474 --> 00:15:10,343 Why would I do that if I wanted to kill Oziel? 390 00:15:10,377 --> 00:15:13,113 - Okay. 391 00:15:13,146 --> 00:15:14,714 I don't want you to get in trouble here, Lyle, 392 00:15:14,747 --> 00:15:17,284 and sometimes, when you're annoyed, 393 00:15:17,317 --> 00:15:19,219 it can come off as anger. 394 00:15:19,252 --> 00:15:21,254 [ominous music] 395 00:15:21,288 --> 00:15:25,092 - That's my father. 396 00:15:25,125 --> 00:15:28,695 He said in business, it's good to make people afraid of you. 397 00:15:28,728 --> 00:15:31,965 - In prison, that's a dangerous game. 398 00:15:31,999 --> 00:15:34,001 * 399 00:15:34,034 --> 00:15:35,535 - I, um... 400 00:15:35,568 --> 00:15:38,305 Appreciate the advice. 401 00:15:38,338 --> 00:15:41,141 And, Miss Lansing, thanks for... 402 00:15:41,174 --> 00:15:43,210 getting my glue back. 403 00:15:43,243 --> 00:15:45,278 - [laughs] You can call me Jill. 404 00:15:45,312 --> 00:15:49,549 And my friends call me "Jilly." 405 00:15:49,582 --> 00:15:51,751 - Why would I threaten Dr. Oziel? 406 00:15:51,784 --> 00:15:53,420 I wasn't mad at him. 407 00:15:53,453 --> 00:15:54,687 - No? I'm mad at him. 408 00:15:54,721 --> 00:15:55,755 He exploited you. 409 00:15:55,788 --> 00:15:59,026 [dramatic music] 410 00:15:59,059 --> 00:16:00,560 You ever get angry, Erik? 411 00:16:00,593 --> 00:16:02,996 At Lyle? Maybe at your parents? 412 00:16:03,030 --> 00:16:04,731 * 413 00:16:04,764 --> 00:16:08,335 - [sniffs] 414 00:16:08,368 --> 00:16:11,171 - You know you can talk to me, right? 415 00:16:11,204 --> 00:16:15,308 * 416 00:16:15,342 --> 00:16:18,578 My mom is an emotional abuser. 417 00:16:18,611 --> 00:16:21,648 I've never stopped loving her, not for one second. 418 00:16:21,681 --> 00:16:25,118 But I get so angry at her, 419 00:16:25,152 --> 00:16:26,486 so angry. 420 00:16:26,519 --> 00:16:29,522 * 421 00:16:29,556 --> 00:16:32,459 On that last day with your parents, 422 00:16:32,492 --> 00:16:34,261 were you angry? 423 00:16:34,294 --> 00:16:37,630 * 424 00:16:37,664 --> 00:16:40,500 - Now that you say it like that, I guess. 425 00:16:40,533 --> 00:16:42,302 - Were you afraid? 426 00:16:42,335 --> 00:16:45,272 - [breathes deeply] 427 00:16:45,305 --> 00:16:48,741 All the time. 428 00:16:48,775 --> 00:16:52,612 As bad as it is in here, it's... 429 00:16:52,645 --> 00:16:56,049 it's amazing, not to have to be afraid anymore. 430 00:16:56,083 --> 00:16:59,186 - Afraid of what, honey? 431 00:16:59,219 --> 00:17:03,022 - [sighs] 432 00:17:04,591 --> 00:17:08,228 - That tape Oziel did with Erik and Lyle in December, 433 00:17:08,261 --> 00:17:09,529 I need to know what's on it. 434 00:17:09,562 --> 00:17:11,331 - I haven't heard it. Lyle told me 435 00:17:11,364 --> 00:17:12,632 that Oziel did most of the talking. 436 00:17:12,665 --> 00:17:14,767 Uh, suggested motives for the murders. 437 00:17:14,801 --> 00:17:16,569 The boys went along with whatever he said. 438 00:17:16,603 --> 00:17:18,271 - Which was what? 439 00:17:18,305 --> 00:17:20,107 - Oziel suggested the boys were trying to escape 440 00:17:20,140 --> 00:17:21,641 Jose's dominations, control. 441 00:17:21,674 --> 00:17:23,343 - They had escaped! 442 00:17:23,376 --> 00:17:24,711 Lyle was at Princeton, 443 00:17:24,744 --> 00:17:26,746 Erik was going to UCLA. 444 00:17:26,779 --> 00:17:29,382 So what motive did Oziel suggest for killing the mother? 445 00:17:29,416 --> 00:17:31,651 - Mercy killing. Kitty was suicidal, 446 00:17:31,684 --> 00:17:33,220 couldn't survive without Jose. 447 00:17:33,253 --> 00:17:34,754 - Dah, what baloney. 448 00:17:34,787 --> 00:17:37,157 - Les, they did it. - I'm not saying they didn't. 449 00:17:37,190 --> 00:17:38,558 I'm trying to get my head around a motive, 450 00:17:38,591 --> 00:17:40,460 and nobody's giving it to me. 451 00:17:40,493 --> 00:17:42,429 I can't provide a defense 452 00:17:42,462 --> 00:17:44,697 if I don't understand what happened and why. 453 00:17:44,731 --> 00:17:48,335 I need somebody to open those boys up. 454 00:17:48,368 --> 00:17:49,602 [sighs] 455 00:17:49,636 --> 00:17:51,371 This is Bill Vicary. 456 00:17:51,404 --> 00:17:52,605 He's a psychiatrist. 457 00:17:52,639 --> 00:17:54,174 I've worked with him before. 458 00:17:54,207 --> 00:17:57,210 He would not be here if he wasn't the best. 459 00:17:57,244 --> 00:18:00,647 - And we think he can help us move things forward. 460 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:02,682 - I'm pleased to meet you both. 461 00:18:02,715 --> 00:18:06,719 I look forward to getting to know you. 462 00:18:06,753 --> 00:18:09,722 - Do you have any questions for Dr. Vicary? 463 00:18:11,191 --> 00:18:14,127 - No, I can't think of anything. 464 00:18:14,161 --> 00:18:15,628 - Look. 465 00:18:15,662 --> 00:18:17,664 We have a tough situation here, 466 00:18:17,697 --> 00:18:19,832 and Bill is here to help us. 467 00:18:19,866 --> 00:18:21,901 And we all know you guys did it. 468 00:18:21,934 --> 00:18:25,572 Isn't that right? 469 00:18:25,605 --> 00:18:27,640 Then talk to Bill. 470 00:18:27,674 --> 00:18:30,643 [ominous music] 471 00:18:30,677 --> 00:18:32,279 * 472 00:18:32,312 --> 00:18:35,448 - My father's standards were impossibly high. 473 00:18:35,482 --> 00:18:37,717 That was hard for us. 474 00:18:37,750 --> 00:18:40,553 - Can you give me an example? 475 00:18:40,587 --> 00:18:42,689 - My girlfriends. 476 00:18:42,722 --> 00:18:44,524 Even after I went away to Princeton, 477 00:18:44,557 --> 00:18:46,393 he tried to control who I dated. 478 00:18:46,426 --> 00:18:48,595 Nobody was ever good enough. 479 00:18:48,628 --> 00:18:50,830 - How'd you feel about that? 480 00:18:50,863 --> 00:18:54,634 - Again, just domination, control. 481 00:18:54,667 --> 00:18:58,605 - Lyle, those are your father's actions. 482 00:18:58,638 --> 00:19:00,873 I'm interested in how you felt. 483 00:19:00,907 --> 00:19:04,211 * 484 00:19:04,244 --> 00:19:05,378 Erik, 485 00:19:05,412 --> 00:19:07,447 did you understand my question? 486 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:08,481 - [sighs] 487 00:19:08,515 --> 00:19:11,484 My stomach's upset. 488 00:19:11,518 --> 00:19:14,187 - Do you want me to repeat my question? 489 00:19:14,221 --> 00:19:17,657 * 490 00:19:17,690 --> 00:19:19,759 - Dad was an atheist. My parents only cared about 491 00:19:19,792 --> 00:19:23,196 the practical world. 492 00:19:23,230 --> 00:19:27,300 Do you think they spike the food here with drugs? 493 00:19:27,334 --> 00:19:29,969 * 494 00:19:30,002 --> 00:19:32,372 - I don't think so. 495 00:19:32,405 --> 00:19:33,773 Does it worry you? 496 00:19:33,806 --> 00:19:37,377 - No. Just curious. 497 00:19:37,410 --> 00:19:42,815 * 498 00:19:42,849 --> 00:19:44,684 - When you asked me to evaluate them, 499 00:19:44,717 --> 00:19:47,220 I completely accepted the prosecution theory. 500 00:19:47,254 --> 00:19:49,789 Rich kids, pissed off at their oppressive parents, 501 00:19:49,822 --> 00:19:51,458 killed them to get the money 502 00:19:51,491 --> 00:19:52,825 and go on with their lives. 503 00:19:52,859 --> 00:19:55,762 - Except that kids rarely kill their parents. 504 00:19:55,795 --> 00:19:57,397 - Yes. And these two are much sicker 505 00:19:57,430 --> 00:19:58,498 than I expected. 506 00:19:58,531 --> 00:20:00,400 Lyle's suspicious. 507 00:20:00,433 --> 00:20:01,868 Paranoid. 508 00:20:01,901 --> 00:20:04,571 Being in a room with him is anxiety-provoking. 509 00:20:04,604 --> 00:20:05,672 But he's bright. 510 00:20:05,705 --> 00:20:07,006 Articulate. 511 00:20:07,039 --> 00:20:08,308 - And Erik? 512 00:20:08,341 --> 00:20:09,409 - A mess. 513 00:20:09,442 --> 00:20:10,710 He's all over the place. 514 00:20:10,743 --> 00:20:12,011 I'll never get the story out of him. 515 00:20:12,044 --> 00:20:13,713 I might not get it from Lyle either, 516 00:20:13,746 --> 00:20:14,947 but it'll be more pleasant. 517 00:20:14,981 --> 00:20:16,516 - Well, it's not either/or, Bill. 518 00:20:16,549 --> 00:20:17,950 I need you to work with Erik, too. 519 00:20:17,984 --> 00:20:21,621 - He's very fragile. If I push too much, 520 00:20:21,654 --> 00:20:22,889 he might have a psychotic break. 521 00:20:22,922 --> 00:20:24,591 - Which is nothing compared to 522 00:20:24,624 --> 00:20:25,892 choking him with cyanide gas, 523 00:20:25,925 --> 00:20:27,660 which is what the DA wants to do. 524 00:20:27,694 --> 00:20:29,962 We can't stop them without the truth. 525 00:20:29,996 --> 00:20:31,864 Erik is not as weak as you think. 526 00:20:31,898 --> 00:20:34,301 If you need to push him, just hold your nose and do it. 527 00:20:34,334 --> 00:20:37,437 Anything to keep those boys out of the gas chamber. 528 00:20:37,470 --> 00:20:38,938 * 529 00:20:42,275 --> 00:20:42,442 . 530 00:20:42,475 --> 00:20:43,109 - Jerry used mind control on me. 531 00:20:44,511 --> 00:20:45,678 To get me to do things. 532 00:20:45,712 --> 00:20:46,813 - By telling you you're in danger. 533 00:20:46,846 --> 00:20:49,349 - No, with hypnosis. 534 00:20:49,382 --> 00:20:50,850 Jerry controlled me with special words, 535 00:20:50,883 --> 00:20:53,753 like "thorns." 536 00:20:53,786 --> 00:20:55,054 He'd say "thorns" over and over again 537 00:20:55,087 --> 00:20:56,756 to get me to agree to things. 538 00:20:56,789 --> 00:21:00,360 "Thorns, thorns, thorns, thorns." 539 00:21:00,393 --> 00:21:02,762 [sighs] 540 00:21:02,795 --> 00:21:05,031 - Oh, look! Diane Sawyer! 541 00:21:05,064 --> 00:21:07,534 She called me. She wants to have lunch with me. 542 00:21:07,567 --> 00:21:09,068 - Absolutely not. If you give her 543 00:21:09,101 --> 00:21:10,837 an interview, you're out as a witness. 544 00:21:10,870 --> 00:21:12,805 - You won't be famous anymore, Judalon. 545 00:21:12,839 --> 00:21:14,574 - That's so unfair. 546 00:21:14,607 --> 00:21:16,275 She wants to put me on TV. 547 00:21:18,878 --> 00:21:21,314 - You gotta see this. 548 00:21:21,348 --> 00:21:24,451 - Coming in May: an NBC News Special. 549 00:21:24,484 --> 00:21:26,919 The murders that shocked the nation... 550 00:21:26,953 --> 00:21:30,089 - ABC is also doing a special in May. 551 00:21:30,122 --> 00:21:32,459 - Of course. It's the effin' May sweeps. 552 00:21:32,492 --> 00:21:35,662 We're in for the full-tilt boogie now, kids. 553 00:21:35,695 --> 00:21:37,997 [phone rings] 554 00:21:38,030 --> 00:21:39,666 - They're still out there. 555 00:21:39,699 --> 00:21:41,568 [phone rings] 556 00:21:41,601 --> 00:21:44,837 - Boxer's. 557 00:21:44,871 --> 00:21:45,972 It's for you. 558 00:21:46,005 --> 00:21:48,040 It's Diane Sawyer. 559 00:21:48,074 --> 00:21:51,411 [ominous music] 560 00:21:51,444 --> 00:21:52,945 * 561 00:21:52,979 --> 00:21:54,514 - Your producer lied to me. 562 00:21:54,547 --> 00:21:55,782 Okay? He promised that 563 00:21:55,815 --> 00:21:57,116 you wouldn't film or quote me, 564 00:21:57,149 --> 00:21:58,885 and now there's cameras outside my work. 565 00:21:58,918 --> 00:22:00,587 - You know those intrepid reporters. 566 00:22:00,620 --> 00:22:03,390 I have no intention to deceive you, Donovan. 567 00:22:03,423 --> 00:22:05,057 But you have a unique insight into this story 568 00:22:05,091 --> 00:22:07,827 that people need to hear. 569 00:22:07,860 --> 00:22:10,997 Can Will come in to talk to you? 570 00:22:11,030 --> 00:22:13,866 - Yeah. Yeah, okay. I guess I can talk to them. 571 00:22:13,900 --> 00:22:19,939 * 572 00:22:19,972 --> 00:22:21,608 - Nobody says no to Diane. 573 00:22:21,641 --> 00:22:22,775 So how about it? 574 00:22:22,809 --> 00:22:24,411 Your 15 minutes of fame. 575 00:22:24,444 --> 00:22:26,713 Most people never even get that, you know? 576 00:22:26,746 --> 00:22:29,382 * 577 00:22:29,416 --> 00:22:31,117 - I owe them the benefit of the doubt. 578 00:22:31,150 --> 00:22:33,052 I mean, why would they kill their parents? 579 00:22:33,085 --> 00:22:34,987 They had great cars, great clothes. 580 00:22:35,021 --> 00:22:37,056 You couldn't ask for more. 581 00:22:37,089 --> 00:22:41,661 - Okay. Let's turn the camera off for a minute. 582 00:22:41,694 --> 00:22:43,663 Glenn, a source told us there's a taped confession 583 00:22:43,696 --> 00:22:45,865 Lyle and Erik made to their therapist. 584 00:22:45,898 --> 00:22:48,668 * 585 00:22:48,701 --> 00:22:51,404 - Okay... 586 00:22:51,438 --> 00:22:53,806 Jesus... 587 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:55,675 - It's just for a little while. 588 00:22:55,708 --> 00:22:57,176 ABC wants to film your cells. 589 00:22:57,209 --> 00:22:59,111 - What? Can they do that? 590 00:22:59,145 --> 00:23:01,013 Lyle, I have, like, religious stuff in there. 591 00:23:01,047 --> 00:23:02,014 It's private. 592 00:23:02,048 --> 00:23:03,616 - I know. Deputy, 593 00:23:03,650 --> 00:23:05,618 can we please at least cover our personal items? 594 00:23:05,652 --> 00:23:07,019 - Make it quick. 595 00:23:07,053 --> 00:23:14,427 * 596 00:23:33,245 --> 00:23:35,582 - Hang in there, little brother. 597 00:23:35,615 --> 00:23:40,920 * 598 00:23:40,953 --> 00:23:42,054 - I know 599 00:23:42,088 --> 00:23:44,156 Reiner gave ABC permission. 600 00:23:44,190 --> 00:23:46,959 What? Because they're human beings, Elliott. 601 00:23:46,993 --> 00:23:48,728 Those cells are their homes. 602 00:23:48,761 --> 00:23:52,665 What is with you people? 603 00:23:52,699 --> 00:23:54,166 - You'll like this. 604 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,202 Attorneys for the media are petitioning the court 605 00:23:56,235 --> 00:23:58,571 to have the autopsy reports released. 606 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,075 * 607 00:24:03,109 --> 00:24:05,512 - Those reports show everything. 608 00:24:05,545 --> 00:24:07,246 It's not decent. 609 00:24:07,279 --> 00:24:09,482 My mom, she was a private person. 610 00:24:09,516 --> 00:24:13,753 - I know it's hard, Lyle, but there's nothing you can do. 611 00:24:13,786 --> 00:24:15,221 So let Leslie and me do the worrying 612 00:24:15,254 --> 00:24:19,091 and we'll fight it in the hearing. 613 00:24:19,125 --> 00:24:22,228 My daughter hates when I do that. 614 00:24:22,261 --> 00:24:25,131 Tell her she has no power to change what's bothering her. 615 00:24:25,164 --> 00:24:26,966 - Well, how old is she? 616 00:24:26,999 --> 00:24:28,801 - She's three. 617 00:24:28,835 --> 00:24:30,503 - So she really has no power. 618 00:24:30,537 --> 00:24:32,772 - Well, she thinks she does. 619 00:24:32,805 --> 00:24:34,140 She wants a baby brother, 620 00:24:34,173 --> 00:24:35,708 and I've told her that is not happening. 621 00:24:35,742 --> 00:24:37,777 - Oh, no, you should give her one. 622 00:24:37,810 --> 00:24:39,879 Little brothers are great. 623 00:24:39,912 --> 00:24:42,181 - Like Erik? 624 00:24:42,214 --> 00:24:44,717 Were you excited when your mom brought him home? 625 00:24:44,751 --> 00:24:47,086 - Yeah, I was so happy. 626 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,556 I wasn't alone anymore. 627 00:24:54,193 --> 00:24:57,830 - These things always run late. 628 00:24:57,864 --> 00:25:01,267 Maybe you noticed we lawyers like to hear ourselves talk. 629 00:25:01,300 --> 00:25:04,537 [laughs] 630 00:25:04,571 --> 00:25:07,674 Jerry Chaleff told me you wanted to be an actor. 631 00:25:07,707 --> 00:25:09,208 - Mm, no. 632 00:25:09,241 --> 00:25:12,879 I mean, I did, but no, my parents made me stop. 633 00:25:12,912 --> 00:25:15,682 - That didn't make you angry? 634 00:25:15,715 --> 00:25:17,550 - I wasn't angry. 635 00:25:17,584 --> 00:25:19,118 I was sad. 636 00:25:19,151 --> 00:25:20,753 I liked it. 637 00:25:20,787 --> 00:25:24,657 Being somebody else. Disappearing. 638 00:25:25,925 --> 00:25:28,294 - When did you get interested in acting? 639 00:25:28,327 --> 00:25:32,565 - Uh, when we lived in Calabasas. 640 00:25:32,599 --> 00:25:35,334 - I bet you wanted to disappear then. 641 00:25:35,367 --> 00:25:37,103 Having to take the blame for Lyle 642 00:25:37,136 --> 00:25:38,638 for all those burglaries. 643 00:25:38,671 --> 00:25:40,840 - No, that was just common sense. 644 00:25:40,873 --> 00:25:42,274 - How so? 645 00:25:42,308 --> 00:25:45,912 - [sighs] Lyle's like... 646 00:25:45,945 --> 00:25:47,680 a genius IQ. 647 00:25:47,714 --> 00:25:51,083 I mean, people are drawn to him like a magnet. 648 00:25:51,117 --> 00:25:54,921 He was the one who had a shot at something really big. 649 00:25:54,954 --> 00:25:58,057 - Senator, Dad said. Maybe even president. 650 00:25:58,090 --> 00:26:00,627 Not like me. I'm... 651 00:26:00,660 --> 00:26:02,962 I don't know. I'm not that important. 652 00:26:02,995 --> 00:26:05,965 [melancholy music] 653 00:26:05,998 --> 00:26:07,066 * 654 00:26:07,099 --> 00:26:10,302 [reporters clamoring] 655 00:26:11,337 --> 00:26:12,839 - Judge Albracht authorized 656 00:26:12,872 --> 00:26:14,641 the release of the autopsy reports. 657 00:26:14,674 --> 00:26:16,142 This is a victory for my clients in the media, 658 00:26:16,175 --> 00:26:18,077 but more importantly, it's a victory 659 00:26:18,110 --> 00:26:19,712 for the public's right to know. 660 00:26:19,746 --> 00:26:21,013 - The district attorney fully supported 661 00:26:21,047 --> 00:26:22,849 Mr. Jacobi's motion. 662 00:26:22,882 --> 00:26:25,117 In a free society, the media has a right 663 00:26:25,151 --> 00:26:28,755 to see the entire Menendez file. 664 00:26:28,788 --> 00:26:31,190 - Leslie, what about the public's right to know? 665 00:26:31,223 --> 00:26:32,825 - This is not about the public. 666 00:26:32,859 --> 00:26:35,227 This is about ratings for Mr. Jacobi's clients. 667 00:26:35,261 --> 00:26:37,363 - The DA supported releasing the files. 668 00:26:37,396 --> 00:26:39,231 - Of course! Mr. Reiner wants to dump 669 00:26:39,265 --> 00:26:41,067 as much poison as possible into the jury pool. 670 00:26:41,100 --> 00:26:42,702 Mr. Reiner knows 671 00:26:42,735 --> 00:26:44,370 my clients cannot defend themselves on television. 672 00:26:44,403 --> 00:26:46,172 He doesn't care about a fair trial. 673 00:26:46,205 --> 00:26:48,207 Okay? Thanks. 674 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,176 - They take away my son's dignity! 675 00:26:50,209 --> 00:26:51,844 - Give us some room, please. 676 00:26:51,878 --> 00:26:53,312 That's okay, Maria, we're going to appeal. 677 00:26:53,345 --> 00:26:55,014 - Leslie! Leslie! You're going to appeal? 678 00:26:55,047 --> 00:26:57,083 Ms. Menendez, how do you feel about your grandsons? 679 00:26:57,116 --> 00:26:58,818 - Is this what you want? Is it? 680 00:27:03,089 --> 00:27:03,255 . 681 00:27:03,289 --> 00:27:03,990 [fast-paced electronic music] 682 00:27:05,324 --> 00:27:07,694 - This is ABC Primetime, 683 00:27:07,727 --> 00:27:08,928 with Diane Sawyer. 684 00:27:08,961 --> 00:27:10,863 - The city of Beverly Hills 685 00:27:10,897 --> 00:27:14,000 has been rocked by a drama at once riveting and chilling. 686 00:27:14,033 --> 00:27:15,935 Nearly a year ago... 687 00:27:15,968 --> 00:27:17,904 But there's another person that sources say 688 00:27:17,937 --> 00:27:21,674 might link the brothers to the murder weapons. 689 00:27:21,708 --> 00:27:23,776 This is Donovan Goodreau. 690 00:27:23,810 --> 00:27:25,177 - Aw, dude, you're famous! 691 00:27:25,211 --> 00:27:26,946 [laughter] 692 00:27:26,979 --> 00:27:28,881 - Shotguns were purchased in San Diego 693 00:27:28,915 --> 00:27:31,417 using his California driver's license. 694 00:27:31,450 --> 00:27:34,386 Goodreau told police his license was missing, 695 00:27:34,420 --> 00:27:37,289 possibly left in the dorm he used to share 696 00:27:37,323 --> 00:27:39,025 with Lyle Menendez. 697 00:27:39,058 --> 00:27:41,393 - Other crucial evidence: 698 00:27:41,427 --> 00:27:43,295 notes from therapy sessions were found 699 00:27:43,329 --> 00:27:45,765 at the home of Erik's Beverly Hills therapist, 700 00:27:45,798 --> 00:27:47,734 Dr. Jerome Oziel. 701 00:27:47,767 --> 00:27:51,337 - A therapist is like a priest or minister, 702 00:27:51,370 --> 00:27:53,906 in that people come in and confess. 703 00:27:53,940 --> 00:27:55,407 But also, they look for someone 704 00:27:55,441 --> 00:27:57,376 to help them work through their problems. 705 00:27:57,409 --> 00:28:00,046 Like any therapist, I carry with me at all times 706 00:28:00,079 --> 00:28:03,382 hundreds, if not thousands, of people's secrets. 707 00:28:03,415 --> 00:28:06,318 And it's a sacred obligation to preserve those secrets, 708 00:28:06,352 --> 00:28:09,956 unless the law mandates otherwise. 709 00:28:09,989 --> 00:28:11,257 - For now, the boys who once lived 710 00:28:11,290 --> 00:28:13,259 in a mansion in Beverly Hills 711 00:28:13,292 --> 00:28:17,063 live in these cells in Los Angeles County Jail. 712 00:28:17,096 --> 00:28:19,065 Hard as it is to believe 713 00:28:19,098 --> 00:28:20,967 children would kill their parents for money, 714 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,069 District Attorney Ira Reiner 715 00:28:23,102 --> 00:28:25,805 believes money is only part of the puzzle. 716 00:28:25,838 --> 00:28:27,874 - People kill for money, Diane, 717 00:28:27,907 --> 00:28:29,475 but mostly, they kill for hatred. 718 00:28:29,508 --> 00:28:31,177 - But how could these parents 719 00:28:31,210 --> 00:28:35,214 create that kind of hatred in these boys? 720 00:28:35,247 --> 00:28:38,851 - I have no idea. Who can understand that? 721 00:28:38,885 --> 00:28:40,086 I don't. 722 00:28:40,119 --> 00:28:41,854 - You and me both, Ira. 723 00:28:41,888 --> 00:28:43,956 You and me both. 724 00:28:43,990 --> 00:28:46,492 - Cemetery in Princeton. 725 00:28:46,525 --> 00:28:48,360 - Everything changes now. 726 00:28:48,394 --> 00:28:49,996 They did it. 727 00:28:50,029 --> 00:28:52,231 - There's still things that we don't know. 728 00:28:52,264 --> 00:28:53,833 - They used their buddy's license 729 00:28:53,866 --> 00:28:55,434 to buy shotguns. 730 00:28:55,467 --> 00:28:57,369 - We don't want any more money from the estate 731 00:28:57,403 --> 00:28:59,005 going to their defense. 732 00:28:59,038 --> 00:29:00,773 - That's not your decision. 733 00:29:00,807 --> 00:29:02,842 - They murdered my sister. 734 00:29:02,875 --> 00:29:04,110 - First of all-- - And if they get 735 00:29:04,143 --> 00:29:05,845 the death penalty? 736 00:29:05,878 --> 00:29:08,815 Your sister and my brother are part of those boys. 737 00:29:08,848 --> 00:29:10,549 You want them killed again? 738 00:29:10,582 --> 00:29:13,552 [somber music] 739 00:29:13,585 --> 00:29:18,791 * 740 00:29:18,825 --> 00:29:20,259 - Jerry asked me to listen in 741 00:29:20,292 --> 00:29:22,261 from the waiting room in case things got out of hand 742 00:29:22,294 --> 00:29:23,529 with Erik and Lyle. 743 00:29:23,562 --> 00:29:25,832 I heard Lyle threaten Jerry. 744 00:29:25,865 --> 00:29:27,199 He said they would kill him 745 00:29:27,233 --> 00:29:29,268 to keep him from going to the police. 746 00:29:29,301 --> 00:29:32,304 Later, Jerry told me everything. 747 00:29:37,309 --> 00:29:40,880 - You hear conversations in a soundproof office 748 00:29:40,913 --> 00:29:44,350 through two sets of padded doors? 749 00:29:44,383 --> 00:29:48,120 You hear dog whistles too, Miss Smyth? 750 00:29:48,154 --> 00:29:49,856 - I thought this was about Jerry's tapes. 751 00:29:49,889 --> 00:29:51,157 - It is. 752 00:29:51,190 --> 00:29:54,060 - Go ahead, Ms. Abramson. 753 00:29:54,093 --> 00:29:57,163 - So you said that Dr. Oziel told you everything 754 00:29:57,196 --> 00:29:59,098 about his session with Erik and Lyle. 755 00:29:59,131 --> 00:30:00,399 Was he in the habit 756 00:30:00,432 --> 00:30:02,034 of sharing his patients' confidences? 757 00:30:02,068 --> 00:30:04,370 - Yeah, sure. I was his lover. 758 00:30:04,403 --> 00:30:07,173 He told me what his sex therapy patients were into, 759 00:30:07,206 --> 00:30:09,141 especially the ladies. 760 00:30:09,175 --> 00:30:11,177 He wanted a threesome. 761 00:30:11,210 --> 00:30:12,912 - Judge, please tell her to stop 762 00:30:12,945 --> 00:30:15,948 flashing her impressive bosom at you. 763 00:30:15,982 --> 00:30:18,985 - Okay... 764 00:30:19,018 --> 00:30:20,552 I want to say that 765 00:30:20,586 --> 00:30:22,054 I have limited control 766 00:30:22,088 --> 00:30:25,191 over my words and actions right now. 767 00:30:25,224 --> 00:30:27,593 Jerry Oziel is using mind control on me. 768 00:30:27,626 --> 00:30:31,030 He's out in the hallway, using special words. 769 00:30:31,063 --> 00:30:34,033 [desolate music] 770 00:30:34,066 --> 00:30:36,102 - No more questions. 771 00:30:36,135 --> 00:30:42,008 * 772 00:30:42,041 --> 00:30:43,475 - And when Erik Menendez 773 00:30:43,509 --> 00:30:47,546 came into your office, where was Judalon Smyth? 774 00:30:47,579 --> 00:30:49,215 - Before I answer, Your Honor, 775 00:30:49,248 --> 00:30:51,250 this hearing is closed to the press, isn't it? 776 00:30:51,283 --> 00:30:55,154 - Yes, it is, Doctor. 777 00:30:55,187 --> 00:30:59,125 I had arranged to have Judalon sit in the waiting room. 778 00:30:59,158 --> 00:31:00,326 - [whispering] Lying such... 779 00:31:00,359 --> 00:31:01,593 - I was worried about what Erik 780 00:31:01,627 --> 00:31:03,262 and his brother might do. 781 00:31:03,295 --> 00:31:05,031 - And afterwards, did you 782 00:31:05,064 --> 00:31:06,933 share details of the session with Miss Smyth? 783 00:31:06,966 --> 00:31:10,369 - Yes, for her safety. She was at risk; we both were. 784 00:31:10,402 --> 00:31:12,271 As I told you, Lyle had threatened me. 785 00:31:19,545 --> 00:31:21,247 - If you were so afraid 786 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,515 after Lyle wished you "Good luck," 787 00:31:23,549 --> 00:31:26,252 why didn't you go home to protect your wife and kids 788 00:31:26,285 --> 00:31:28,320 instead of going to boink your mistress? 789 00:31:28,354 --> 00:31:30,189 - I was worried that Lyle and Erik 790 00:31:30,222 --> 00:31:31,924 might follow me home to my family. 791 00:31:31,958 --> 00:31:34,927 - But you had no problem leading them to your mistress. 792 00:31:34,961 --> 00:31:36,996 How gallant of you. 793 00:31:37,029 --> 00:31:38,330 Now, Dr. Oziel, 794 00:31:38,364 --> 00:31:39,665 didn't you tell Ms. Lansing and me 795 00:31:39,698 --> 00:31:41,233 a few weeks ago that 796 00:31:41,267 --> 00:31:45,271 Ms. Smyth was not in your waiting room? 797 00:31:45,304 --> 00:31:47,373 - You must have misunderstood me. 798 00:31:47,406 --> 00:31:49,475 - Well, let me be sure I understand you now. 799 00:31:49,508 --> 00:31:51,543 So you just testified that you violated 800 00:31:51,577 --> 00:31:54,013 the doctor-patient privilege by telling Judalon 801 00:31:54,046 --> 00:31:55,347 about your sessions with Erik. 802 00:31:55,381 --> 00:31:57,149 - Only because of the threats. 803 00:31:57,183 --> 00:31:59,118 - She testified that you routinely violated 804 00:31:59,151 --> 00:32:00,987 that privilege, telling her about 805 00:32:01,020 --> 00:32:03,022 your sex therapy patients... - No, that's a lie. 806 00:32:03,055 --> 00:32:06,192 The privilege is a sacred bond between me and my patients. 807 00:32:06,225 --> 00:32:09,228 - Well, wasn't your license suspended in 1986 808 00:32:09,261 --> 00:32:10,729 for abusing that sacred bond? 809 00:32:10,762 --> 00:32:12,398 - A temporary suspension. 810 00:32:12,431 --> 00:32:14,500 - I have an affidavit from a former patient 811 00:32:14,533 --> 00:32:16,302 you had an affair with and tried to strangle 812 00:32:16,335 --> 00:32:18,170 with a phone cord. 813 00:32:18,204 --> 00:32:19,638 Now, was that a sacred phone cord? 814 00:32:19,671 --> 00:32:21,207 - Lies. All lies. 815 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:22,541 - These alleged threats-- 816 00:32:22,574 --> 00:32:25,244 Those are the lies 817 00:32:25,277 --> 00:32:27,279 that you made up to scare Judalon, 818 00:32:27,313 --> 00:32:29,548 to manipulate her. 819 00:32:29,581 --> 00:32:33,719 You don't help people, Doctor. You make them sicker. 820 00:32:33,752 --> 00:32:36,722 [dramatic music] 821 00:32:36,755 --> 00:32:43,996 * 822 00:32:44,530 --> 00:32:46,432 - The judge will render a decision 823 00:32:46,465 --> 00:32:50,102 in a couple weeks. Fingers crossed. 824 00:32:50,136 --> 00:32:52,138 - My colleagues at the paper aren't too happy 825 00:32:52,171 --> 00:32:53,772 about the hearings being closed. 826 00:32:53,805 --> 00:32:55,507 - Well, tough. 827 00:32:55,541 --> 00:32:59,345 - That's what I told them you'd say. 828 00:32:59,378 --> 00:33:01,213 You know, 829 00:33:01,247 --> 00:33:03,015 maybe later this year, 830 00:33:03,049 --> 00:33:05,484 for sure before the adoption, 831 00:33:05,517 --> 00:33:09,255 I'd like to take you to visit the old sod. 832 00:33:09,288 --> 00:33:10,622 We could pick up a car in Dublin, 833 00:33:10,656 --> 00:33:12,658 head out to Tullamore. 834 00:33:14,693 --> 00:33:16,628 Les... 835 00:33:16,662 --> 00:33:18,164 We don't have to go, 836 00:33:18,197 --> 00:33:19,498 but you need to find some way 837 00:33:19,531 --> 00:33:21,133 to disconnect from all this. 838 00:33:21,167 --> 00:33:22,501 Even for a week. 839 00:33:22,534 --> 00:33:24,103 - Oh, I know, I know. I want to go. 840 00:33:24,136 --> 00:33:25,771 Oh, look. 841 00:33:25,804 --> 00:33:28,407 - In a stunning rebuke to District Attorney Reiner, 842 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,509 Judge Weisberg declared a mistrial 843 00:33:30,542 --> 00:33:32,244 after the jury deadlocked 844 00:33:32,278 --> 00:33:33,812 in the retrial of Raymond Buckey 845 00:33:33,845 --> 00:33:37,083 in the McMartin Preschool molestation case. 846 00:33:37,116 --> 00:33:39,218 - Wow. How many years did that take? 847 00:33:39,251 --> 00:33:43,122 - Seven years and $15 million. 848 00:33:43,155 --> 00:33:45,157 Oh, this is not good. 849 00:33:45,191 --> 00:33:47,126 This is gonna rebound on us. 850 00:33:47,159 --> 00:33:48,727 - Buckey was cleared... 851 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,263 * 852 00:33:51,297 --> 00:33:52,398 - Most of the jury thought 853 00:33:52,431 --> 00:33:53,699 the kids had been coached 854 00:33:53,732 --> 00:33:55,201 to say they'd been molested. 855 00:33:55,234 --> 00:33:58,270 - Weisberg lost control, that's what. 856 00:33:58,304 --> 00:34:01,473 - Okay, Pam, you're back on Menendez, first chair. 857 00:34:01,507 --> 00:34:03,242 - But what about Ray Buckey? 858 00:34:03,275 --> 00:34:05,311 - Forget him. The focus is Menendez. 859 00:34:05,344 --> 00:34:06,812 Their whole defense team is women. 860 00:34:06,845 --> 00:34:08,647 The jury will see them fawning over these boys, 861 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:10,282 they'll think "How bad can they be?" 862 00:34:10,316 --> 00:34:11,417 We're not ceding that ground. 863 00:34:11,450 --> 00:34:14,553 Pam will be in charge. 864 00:34:14,586 --> 00:34:16,088 * 865 00:34:16,122 --> 00:34:17,656 - Can't believe he demoted me. 866 00:34:17,689 --> 00:34:21,093 - Time to show you're a team player, Elliott. 867 00:34:21,127 --> 00:34:22,828 - From October 31st 868 00:34:22,861 --> 00:34:24,563 to December of 1989, 869 00:34:24,596 --> 00:34:27,433 there were a series of sessions between Dr. Oziel 870 00:34:27,466 --> 00:34:30,202 and the defendants concerning their mental health 871 00:34:30,236 --> 00:34:32,138 after the murder of their parents. 872 00:34:32,171 --> 00:34:35,441 There were audio notes by Dr. Oziel 873 00:34:35,474 --> 00:34:38,577 for the October 31st and November 2nd sessions, 874 00:34:38,610 --> 00:34:41,713 and a recording of a session on December 11th. 875 00:34:41,747 --> 00:34:44,416 I have ruled that none of these communications 876 00:34:44,450 --> 00:34:46,585 are privileged. 877 00:34:46,618 --> 00:34:48,687 Dr. Oziel had reasonable cause to believe 878 00:34:48,720 --> 00:34:50,822 that the brothers constituted a threat 879 00:34:50,856 --> 00:34:52,324 and that it was necessary 880 00:34:52,358 --> 00:34:53,625 to disclose those communications 881 00:34:53,659 --> 00:34:55,861 to prevent the threat and danger. 882 00:34:55,894 --> 00:34:57,329 [bangs gavel] 883 00:34:57,363 --> 00:35:00,332 [shutters snapping] 884 00:35:00,366 --> 00:35:02,801 - We're gonna fight this, Erik. Do not lose hope. 885 00:35:02,834 --> 00:35:05,804 [dramatic music] 886 00:35:05,837 --> 00:35:13,245 * 887 00:35:17,249 --> 00:35:18,584 - The ruling means the DA 888 00:35:18,617 --> 00:35:20,619 can use the tapes against Erik and Lyle. 889 00:35:20,652 --> 00:35:21,787 Will you appeal? 890 00:35:21,820 --> 00:35:22,788 - What do you think? 891 00:35:22,821 --> 00:35:23,922 - On what grounds? 892 00:35:23,955 --> 00:35:26,492 - That it's wrong. 893 00:35:29,895 --> 00:35:30,229 . 894 00:35:30,262 --> 00:35:30,529 - [crying] 895 00:35:32,798 --> 00:35:35,767 [ominous music] 896 00:35:35,801 --> 00:35:43,209 * 897 00:35:46,945 --> 00:35:48,480 - Where are you going, Uncle Jose? 898 00:35:48,514 --> 00:35:49,848 I'm bored. 899 00:35:49,881 --> 00:35:51,450 I want to do something. 900 00:35:51,483 --> 00:35:52,851 - Stay in Erik's room, Andy. 901 00:35:52,884 --> 00:35:54,286 We're just going to play a game. 902 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,655 - I want to play. 903 00:35:56,688 --> 00:35:58,424 I want to play too. 904 00:35:58,457 --> 00:36:00,859 I want to play! 905 00:36:00,892 --> 00:36:02,328 I want to play too! 906 00:36:02,361 --> 00:36:03,595 Let me in! 907 00:36:03,629 --> 00:36:07,333 [knocking] 908 00:36:07,366 --> 00:36:08,934 - It's your fault. 909 00:36:08,967 --> 00:36:11,603 - Dad... 910 00:36:11,637 --> 00:36:13,839 - You're stupid. 911 00:36:13,872 --> 00:36:15,774 - No, Dad, don't say that. 912 00:36:15,807 --> 00:36:18,677 [breathes deeply and rapidly] 913 00:36:18,710 --> 00:36:20,379 Where are you? 914 00:36:20,412 --> 00:36:22,448 - You're not worthy of being a Menendez. 915 00:36:22,481 --> 00:36:24,716 - [cries] Stop. 916 00:36:24,750 --> 00:36:27,719 [cries] 917 00:36:27,753 --> 00:36:30,222 * 918 00:36:30,256 --> 00:36:32,358 - I'm not getting anywhere with Lyle. 919 00:36:32,391 --> 00:36:35,494 But Erik... He talks about this nightmare. 920 00:36:35,527 --> 00:36:38,464 Come right up to the edge of a breakthrough and... 921 00:36:38,497 --> 00:36:39,698 then he pulls back. 922 00:36:39,731 --> 00:36:41,733 Same thing over and over again. 923 00:36:41,767 --> 00:36:44,303 - There's got to be more to that family. 924 00:36:44,336 --> 00:36:45,637 - Yes, I agree, but some people go to their graves 925 00:36:45,671 --> 00:36:46,838 with their secrets. 926 00:36:46,872 --> 00:36:48,640 You have to be ready for that. 927 00:36:48,674 --> 00:36:50,676 Is a plea bargain not an option? 928 00:36:50,709 --> 00:36:52,244 - Yep, and I am open to anything 929 00:36:52,278 --> 00:36:54,780 that keeps those boys off death row. 930 00:36:54,813 --> 00:36:57,383 - I think I'm going crazy. 931 00:36:57,416 --> 00:37:00,719 I hear my father's voice at night, in my cell. 932 00:37:00,752 --> 00:37:03,255 - Is the voice in your head? 933 00:37:03,289 --> 00:37:04,590 - No. 934 00:37:04,623 --> 00:37:06,825 It's like he's next to me, like a ghost. 935 00:37:06,858 --> 00:37:09,995 I get up, and I look for him. 936 00:37:10,028 --> 00:37:11,830 - Have you had any more nightmares 937 00:37:11,863 --> 00:37:14,400 with the green face since we last talked? 938 00:37:14,433 --> 00:37:17,903 - [cries] Yes. 939 00:37:17,936 --> 00:37:20,939 Something doesn't make sense. 940 00:37:20,972 --> 00:37:23,675 When I climb the roof, 941 00:37:23,709 --> 00:37:25,444 to get to my mother, 942 00:37:25,477 --> 00:37:28,380 it's so she'll help me. 943 00:37:28,414 --> 00:37:30,782 But she never helped me with Dad. 944 00:37:30,816 --> 00:37:32,951 She always sided with him. 945 00:37:32,984 --> 00:37:35,987 - Did she know you had nightmares? 946 00:37:36,021 --> 00:37:38,290 - Yes. 947 00:37:38,324 --> 00:37:42,594 She would put me in a cold shower. 948 00:37:42,628 --> 00:37:43,862 I would want to tell her things, 949 00:37:43,895 --> 00:37:45,831 but I couldn't. 950 00:37:45,864 --> 00:37:47,433 - What did you want to tell her? 951 00:37:47,466 --> 00:37:51,703 - I wanted-- [sobs] 952 00:37:51,737 --> 00:37:54,640 I wanted her to-- 953 00:37:54,673 --> 00:37:56,875 [breathes raggedly] 954 00:37:56,908 --> 00:38:00,446 I wanted her to make the nightmares stop. 955 00:38:00,479 --> 00:38:01,980 - How could she do that? 956 00:38:02,013 --> 00:38:05,317 - I can't talk anymore. 957 00:38:06,818 --> 00:38:09,455 I need to be quiet. 958 00:38:09,488 --> 00:38:12,057 I need to read my Bible. 959 00:38:12,090 --> 00:38:13,859 - Okay. 960 00:38:13,892 --> 00:38:16,462 * 961 00:38:16,495 --> 00:38:20,466 Erik, what if I could make the nightmares stop? 962 00:38:20,499 --> 00:38:24,603 Your mother couldn't, but I think I can. 963 00:38:24,636 --> 00:38:26,738 Will you let me? 964 00:38:26,772 --> 00:38:33,345 * 965 00:38:33,379 --> 00:38:35,881 I called you as soon as I was sure. 966 00:38:35,914 --> 00:38:38,784 This was two days ago. 967 00:38:38,817 --> 00:38:41,653 Erik finally told me the green face. 968 00:38:41,687 --> 00:38:48,894 * 969 00:38:55,634 --> 00:38:57,869 - When I was five or six, 970 00:38:57,903 --> 00:39:00,639 Dad would massage my penis. 971 00:39:00,672 --> 00:39:03,108 You know? With his mouth. 972 00:39:03,141 --> 00:39:06,612 He said he loved me. 973 00:39:06,645 --> 00:39:09,781 When I got older, he had me do oral sex on him. 974 00:39:09,815 --> 00:39:12,984 And I did it, because... 975 00:39:13,018 --> 00:39:15,754 Two years ago, he threatened me with a knife, 976 00:39:15,787 --> 00:39:17,022 because I said I didn't want to 977 00:39:17,055 --> 00:39:19,658 have sex anymore. 978 00:39:19,691 --> 00:39:21,793 [shuts off tape] 979 00:39:21,827 --> 00:39:23,562 - Yesterday, he told me, when he turned 11, 980 00:39:23,595 --> 00:39:25,431 his father started raping him. 981 00:39:25,464 --> 00:39:27,433 - He's a kid who claims he hears voices. 982 00:39:27,466 --> 00:39:29,067 - When someone tells me they hear a voice, 983 00:39:29,100 --> 00:39:30,969 I ask if the voice is in their head. 984 00:39:31,002 --> 00:39:32,938 The fakers always say it is. 985 00:39:32,971 --> 00:39:34,506 The people telling the truth 986 00:39:34,540 --> 00:39:36,007 say the voice comes from outside them. 987 00:39:36,041 --> 00:39:37,509 Erik said it was as if 988 00:39:37,543 --> 00:39:39,745 his father was in the room with him. 989 00:39:39,778 --> 00:39:41,112 I believe him. 990 00:39:41,146 --> 00:39:42,948 - Has Lyle said anything about abuse? 991 00:39:42,981 --> 00:39:44,850 - No, I've hit a wall with Lyle. 992 00:39:44,883 --> 00:39:46,685 I've asked a colleague, John Conte, 993 00:39:46,718 --> 00:39:47,819 to talk to him. 994 00:39:47,853 --> 00:39:49,921 He specializes in child abuse. 995 00:39:49,955 --> 00:39:53,425 - Okay. Thanks, Doc. 996 00:39:53,459 --> 00:39:59,965 * 997 00:39:59,998 --> 00:40:02,067 Oh, I trust Vicary's judgment. 998 00:40:02,100 --> 00:40:04,970 - If Erik was abused for most of his life, 999 00:40:05,003 --> 00:40:06,505 where was his mother? 1000 00:40:06,538 --> 00:40:07,873 Where was the rest of his family? 1001 00:40:07,906 --> 00:40:09,641 - Hard to picture a 17-year-old... 1002 00:40:09,675 --> 00:40:11,843 I mean, Erik's an athlete. He's no pushover. 1003 00:40:11,877 --> 00:40:13,545 - And even if it's true, 1004 00:40:13,579 --> 00:40:15,547 what does it have to do with the murders? 1005 00:40:15,581 --> 00:40:18,850 I know you see a defense here, Leslie, but I'm not so sure. 1006 00:40:18,884 --> 00:40:21,587 - First, we need corroboration. 1007 00:40:21,620 --> 00:40:24,122 We also need to know more about this family. 1008 00:40:24,155 --> 00:40:25,724 - The evidence better be convincing, 1009 00:40:25,757 --> 00:40:27,759 because the image this family has-- 1010 00:40:27,793 --> 00:40:29,194 the picture-perfect smiles-- 1011 00:40:29,227 --> 00:40:32,030 sex abuse is going to be a tall leap for a jury. 1012 00:40:32,063 --> 00:40:34,666 - It's a tall leap for me. 1013 00:40:34,700 --> 00:40:36,935 - You really believe what Erik said, Leslie? 1014 00:40:36,968 --> 00:40:38,937 - As a mother and a human being, 1015 00:40:38,970 --> 00:40:40,806 I believe it. 1016 00:40:40,839 --> 00:40:42,941 As a lawyer, I'll believe it when we can prove it. 1017 00:40:42,974 --> 00:40:44,776 So let's find the proof. 1018 00:40:44,810 --> 00:40:47,779 [dramatic music] 1019 00:40:47,813 --> 00:40:53,084 * 70971

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