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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:05,320 MUSIC: All I Want by Joni Mitchell 2 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:09,960 # I am on a lonely road and 3 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:13,480 # I am travelling, travelling, travelling, travelling 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:17,400 # Looking for something What can it be? 5 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:23,760 # Oh, I hate you some, I hate you some, I love you some 6 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:29,520 # Oh, I love you when I forget about me 7 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,880 # I wanna be strong, I wanna laugh along 8 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,280 # I wanna belong to the living 9 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,360 # Alive, alive, I want to get up and jive 10 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:41,880 # I want to wreck my stockings in some jukebox dive... # 11 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,360 Joni Mitchell is a true poet. 12 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:48,880 She can just steel an experience or a feeling into song 13 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:50,520 better than anyone. 14 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,560 She is one of those ones where the sparks all connect. 15 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,400 You know, there's some magic that took place there. 16 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:08,200 # I am on a lonely road and I am travelling 17 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,640 # Looking for the key to set me free 18 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:15,320 # Oh, the jealousy... # 19 00:01:15,320 --> 00:01:18,920 The journey she's gone on in her music has been really valuable 20 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:20,480 and really unique 21 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,960 because of the fact that she's not going to put lipstick 22 00:01:23,960 --> 00:01:26,080 and make-up on the truth. 23 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,200 "Here it is, here's what I've found. 24 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:29,680 "Here's my letter home." 25 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:32,920 # Wanna be the one that you want to see 26 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:34,400 # I wanna knit you a sweater 27 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:36,200 # I wanna write you a love letter 28 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,080 # I wanna make you feel better 29 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:44,080 # I wanna make you feel free 30 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,960 # Mm hm, hm hm 31 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,240 # Wanna make you feel free 32 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:54,680 # I wanna make you feel free. # 33 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,680 She creates a musical world that you can feel but you can't explain. 34 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,760 And, ultimately, you're changed by the experience. 35 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,840 MUSIC: Urge For Going by Joni Mitchell 36 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,880 Joni grew up in a small town on the Canadian prairie. 37 00:02:17,920 --> 00:02:22,920 She was an only child and when she was nine years old she got polio. 38 00:02:22,920 --> 00:02:25,760 I think she spent a lot of time alone. 39 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:31,680 # I awoke today and found the frost perched on the town 40 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:41,120 # It hovered in a frozen sky, then it gobbled summer down... # 41 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,320 I always had star eyes, I think. 42 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:46,280 I mean, I always was interested in glamour. 43 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,840 But my childhood longing mostly was to be a painter. 44 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:51,800 You know, that was always my ambition. 45 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:53,800 I was always the artist in the classroom. 46 00:02:53,800 --> 00:03:02,600 # I get the urge for going but I never seem to go... # 47 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,800 You know, Joni was always a rebel. 48 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:10,040 She told me she used to sneak out to the wrong side of town for 49 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:11,880 rock and roll dance contests. 50 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,840 She really lived to dance. 51 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,680 It's almost as if she was making up for lost time. 52 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:21,960 # And winter's closing in 53 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:31,040 # Now the warriors of winter, they gave a cold, triumphant shout 54 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:39,560 # And all that stays is dying All that lives is getting out... # 55 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:43,000 When the war ended, my father found us a little house 56 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,480 by the highway with a picture window, and I think 57 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:52,160 that set up a permanent longing to take off and go somewhere in me. 58 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:56,920 Things coming and going past that window left an impression upon me. 59 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,320 "Here they come. Where are they going?" 60 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,560 # They get the urge for going 61 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:11,880 # When the meadow grass is turning brown 62 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:20,840 # And summertime is falling down... # 63 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:29,000 Joni had this otherworldly view of what was possible in her life 64 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,120 and that she was definitely going to go out there and find it. 65 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,200 I'm not sure that there was a master plan. 66 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,200 I think she may have been a young woman with enormous talent, 67 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,280 anxious to see what was over the next hill, 68 00:04:41,280 --> 00:04:44,480 and the guitar just kind of afforded her a ticket. 69 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,760 It was, in a way, an accident because I went to art college 70 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,640 and began to sing in this little coffee house called 71 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:52,040 The Depression in Calgary. 72 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:56,160 # An old man came courting me, courting me, courting me 73 00:04:56,160 --> 00:05:00,320 # An old man came courting me Faldaro dee... # 74 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,720 You know, in the beginning I mimicked Joan Baez and Judy Collins, 75 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,320 and I thought of myself merely as a competent mimic. 76 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:10,520 But the idea of being a recording artist was not anywhere in my mind. 77 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:11,960 It was just a hobby. 78 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:16,000 So I didn't think I had the gift to take it any further than that. 79 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:21,120 What happened to me then in art school, 80 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,360 I lost my virginity and became pregnant at the same time. 81 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,240 The main thing was to protect my parents from the scandal. 82 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:31,000 You had to... What girls did, either you got married to cover it up, 83 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:32,640 or you went into a home. 84 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:34,120 Abortion was unheard of. 85 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,200 MUSIC: Little Green by Joni Mitchell 86 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,360 So I entered onto the bad girl's trail, you know, 87 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,240 which was a trail of shame and scandal. 88 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,160 And I had to kind of hide myself away. 89 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:48,720 # Born with the moon in cancer 90 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:59,120 # Choose her a name she will answer to 91 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:03,640 # Call her Green and the winters cannot fade her 92 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:08,120 # Call her Green for the children who've made her 93 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,360 # Little Green... # 94 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:12,560 Two weeks after I gave birth to my daughter, 95 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,040 I again went looking for work because I had to put her 96 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,720 into a foster home, and I was penniless at the time. 97 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:24,680 # Child with a child pretending 98 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:33,400 # Weary of lies you are sending home 99 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:38,800 # So you sign all the papers in the family name 100 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:43,640 # You're sad and you're sorry, but you're not ashamed 101 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:49,840 # Little Green, have a happy ending 102 00:06:49,840 --> 00:06:51,440 # Just a little green... # 103 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:53,840 One night, while I was playing in the Penny Farthing, 104 00:06:53,840 --> 00:06:55,240 I met Chuck Mitchell. 105 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,760 We quickly became friends and he said that he could get me 106 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:00,480 work in the States. 107 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,440 So with that optimism I went and took a few gigs down there. 108 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,560 Eventually I had to tell him that my child was in the foster home, 109 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,640 and he said he would marry me. 110 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,920 I was emotionally weak, with a lot of things pulling me 111 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,680 in all sorts of unattractive directions. 112 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,640 And this was a strong pull in a certain direction, 113 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:26,320 and somewhat of a solution. 114 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:28,880 So we married each other, for all the wrong reasons. 115 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:36,400 We had no money. 116 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,480 I made my wedding dress and I made my bridesmaids' dresses. 117 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,720 One of my bridesmaids was his sister Celia, who I barely knew. 118 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:45,760 I barely knew any of these people. 119 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,680 And I walked down the aisle brandishing my daisies, 120 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,000 thinking, "I can get out of this." 121 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,840 But the moment we were married he intimated strongly that 122 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,600 he had no interest in raising another man's child. 123 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:09,920 So I was trapped. 124 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:21,800 Chuck insisted that we be a duo, 125 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,440 but we were totally unsuited to be a duo. 126 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,880 # Blues in the bottle, blues in the bottle... # 127 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,160 He made more money with me than he did without me. 128 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,960 And he held the purse strings, completely. 129 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,200 # Where do you think you're at? # 130 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,480 Because we were young and attractive we were being 131 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,600 made into kind of Detroit's golden couple. 132 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:43,560 So we were living a lie. 133 00:08:43,560 --> 00:08:46,920 And I don't like to live a lie. 134 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:56,880 You try to make the best of moments, and I looked relatively happy. 135 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:58,720 But I felt like I'd been betrayed. 136 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:03,880 It was... 137 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:05,840 ..very difficult for me. 138 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:07,600 So I began to write. 139 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,360 I think I started writing just to develop my own private world, 140 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:14,080 and also because I was disturbed. 141 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,840 # Rows and flows of angel hair 142 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:30,000 # And ice-cream castles in the air... # 143 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,160 Both Sides Now was one of the first songs. 144 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,920 I was meditating on fantasy and reality, 145 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:39,640 childlike optimism and adult reality. 146 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,520 This was the work of my childhood's end. 147 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:48,960 # They rain and snow on everyone 148 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:54,320 # So many things I would've done 149 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:59,440 # But clouds got in my way 150 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:03,160 # I've looked at clouds from both sides now 151 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:07,320 # From up and down and still somehow... # 152 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:13,480 And as my work began to mature I began to long for my own growth. 153 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,880 I felt that I couldn't grow with Chuck, 154 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:18,440 that we would never grow together, 155 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:20,760 that I had to separate myself from the duo, 156 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,520 that I had to become an individual in order to grow. 157 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,600 And as soon as the duo dissolved, the marriage dissolved. 158 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:34,080 # Moons and Junes and Ferris wheels 159 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:39,080 # The dizzy dancing way you feel 160 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:43,240 # As every fairy tale comes real... # 161 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:48,320 I think she had more understanding than most people do of human beings. 162 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,520 She had already been through some hard things. 163 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:57,360 And what makes human beings get wisdom is paying dues. 164 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:01,360 It's sort of like you arrive here as a boulder and you knock 165 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,640 corners off yourself until you get smooth like a river stone. 166 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:07,320 And she was already starting to get smooth. 167 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,040 # I've looked at love from both sides now 168 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:15,760 # From give and take and still somehow 169 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:20,280 # It's love's illusions I recall 170 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:24,800 # I really don't know love 171 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:29,800 # At all. # 172 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:33,160 I feel every bit of trouble I went through I'm grateful for, you know? 173 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:35,360 JONI LAUGHS 174 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,160 Bad fortune changed the course of my destiny. 175 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:39,560 I became a musician. 176 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,200 APPLAUSE 177 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,920 You... You're just starting out, sort of, aren't you? 178 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:51,080 Um... 179 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,080 Actually, I've been singing professionally now for two years. 180 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:58,120 But I consider that I've only started within the last year, 181 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:02,200 because I've only felt that I've begun to have my own way to go, 182 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,360 my own songs and my own guitar style 183 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,040 and I'm starting to get my own vocal styling now. 184 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,920 How do you determine when you've sort of arrived 185 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:14,120 and are what you want to be in this...? 186 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:15,600 It's sort of a law of averages. 187 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:16,800 It depends on... 188 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,160 You don't bomb any more. 189 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:20,400 That's what it is! 190 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,800 MUSIC: Night In The City by Joni Mitchell 191 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,400 # Light up, light up 192 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:32,560 # Light up your lazy blue eyes... # 193 00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:35,880 And Manhattan's Greenwich Village, it was a very gritty scene, 194 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:39,480 you know, in terms of the outlook, the streets, the whole vibe. 195 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,640 There was, like, Bob Dylan and Tom Paxton, Phil Ochs. 196 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,480 And Joni, Leonard Cohen and Townes Van Zandt, 197 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:47,680 they kind of came next. 198 00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:51,520 So I went to New York, and I played a lot of coffee houses. 199 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,200 I booked myself - I had no manager. 200 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,920 I worked the bulk of the year, you know, in club dates. 201 00:12:57,920 --> 00:12:59,720 # There are places to come from 202 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,080 # And places to go 203 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:05,240 # Night in the city looks pretty to me 204 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,960 # Night in the city looks fine... # 205 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,280 I walked into a coffee house, 206 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:13,680 and she was singing. 207 00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:16,840 And she just floored me. 208 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,520 She rocked me back up against the back wall of that place 209 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:21,320 and I stood there just transfixed. 210 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,000 I couldn't believe that there was anybody that good. 211 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:30,840 When I first saw her, hardly anybody was there. 212 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:32,600 I mean, the coffee house was empty. 213 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:37,000 She was standing almost a little pigeon-toed. 214 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,680 She was all involved in tuning her guitar, 215 00:13:39,680 --> 00:13:43,680 and she covered her face with her hair. 216 00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:47,040 It's almost like she wanted to erase who she is... 217 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:51,120 ..and just let the voice be... 218 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,040 ..let the songs be who she is. 219 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:57,080 # I had a king in a salt-rusted carriage 220 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:02,360 # Who carried me off to his country for marriage too soon... # 221 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,760 And then she started to sing I Had A King. 222 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,040 I was going through a divorce then. 223 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:12,720 And I just felt... I don't know what it was about that song. 224 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:18,320 Talk about a new way of conveying - through music, through words 225 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:22,160 - a new way of conveying an existential reality, 226 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,240 a thing, you know, like... 227 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,440 Oh, I just started to sob. 228 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:30,560 # I can't go back there any more 229 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:34,960 # You know my keys won't fit the door 230 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:39,440 # You know my thoughts don't fit the man 231 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,520 # They never can... # 232 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:46,880 She sang it so real, so true, as if she was singing for me. 233 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,080 She was my voice, you know? 234 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,040 She was everybody's voice - she was like a universal voice. 235 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:58,400 # They never can. # 236 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,280 I was amazed that she was so young. 237 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,320 You know? There was so much wisdom in her work. 238 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:14,960 # Moonlight becomes you 239 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,080 # I'm thrilled at the sight... # 240 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:22,240 I loved the beautiful melodies which belonged to the crooner era. 241 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,640 But those melodies had very simple text. 242 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,240 There wasn't room for much poetic description. 243 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,240 # You're all dressed up to go dreaming... # 244 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,360 They're beautiful but they're very direct English, 245 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,080 and that's what suits that kind of melody. 246 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:41,720 But I like the more storytelling quality of Dylan's work. 247 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,880 # You've got a lot of nerve 248 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:48,440 # To say you are my friend... # 249 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:52,720 Bob Dylan had inspired me and it was the idea of the personal narrative. 250 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,120 He would speak as if to one person in a song. 251 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:59,560 You know, like, "You've got a lot of nerve to say you are my friend," 252 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,280 you know? I mean, nobody had ever written anything like that 253 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:04,160 in song form, you know? 254 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:08,000 Such a personal, strong statement. 255 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,680 And his influence was to personalise my work. 256 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:13,760 "I feel this for you," 257 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,120 or "from you," or "because of you." 258 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:22,800 That was the key. 259 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:24,640 "OK, this opens all the doors. 260 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:26,840 "Now we can write about anything." 261 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,320 # There's a man who's been out sailing 262 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,920 # In a decade full of dreams 263 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,760 # And he takes her to his schooner 264 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:37,480 # And he treats her like a queen 265 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,240 # Bearing beads from California 266 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,600 # With their amber stones and green... # 267 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,880 The thing that I was reluctant to let go of was 268 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,480 the melodic, harmonic sense. 269 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,480 Whereas Dylan, you could speak in paragraphs, 270 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:54,800 but it was for the sacrifice of music. 271 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,880 You get the plateaus upon which to speak. 272 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,440 # In the breaking and the breathing 273 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,920 # Of the water weeds 274 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:12,680 # And she's so busy being free... # 275 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:17,160 So it was my job to distil a hybrid that allowed for a certain 276 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:20,640 amount of melodic movement and harmonic movement, 277 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,520 but with a certain amount of plateaus in order to make 278 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,360 the longer statement, to be able to say more. 279 00:17:26,360 --> 00:17:28,920 # And he hopes her heart can hear three thousand miles 280 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:30,640 # He calls again 281 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,520 # He can think her there beside him 282 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:38,680 # He can miss her just the same... # 283 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:42,960 She was always more poetic than most of her peers. 284 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:46,920 Even in the early songs like The Circle Game and Both Sides Now, 285 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:51,320 there was a construction of images and structure to her work 286 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,640 and ingenuity of imagery that nobody else had. 287 00:17:55,720 --> 00:18:04,160 # Yesterday a child came out to wander 288 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:11,040 # Caught a dragonfly inside a jar 289 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:20,000 # Fearful when the sky was full of thunder... # 290 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,920 Joni sent me a tape of six songs. 291 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,800 The last song, I remember she says into the tape recorder, 292 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,280 "This song isn't done yet, and it really sucks 293 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,880 "and I don't even know why I'm sending it to you, but here it is." 294 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,120 And it was The Circle Game. 295 00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:36,400 # And the painted ponies go up and down... # 296 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,560 It was one of the best songs I'd ever heard. 297 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:45,720 # We're captive on the carousel of time... # 298 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,160 I was Buffy Sainte-Marie's agent. 299 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,800 And she'd recorded a new album, and I had listened to the album 300 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:54,200 and I called her up and I said, 301 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,760 "I really loved that song about the circle game." 302 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,600 And she said, "That song was written by Joni Mitchell." 303 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,640 That was the first time I heard Joni Mitchell's name. 304 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,200 The myth was starting about her material, 305 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,840 and people wanted Joni Mitchell songs. 306 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:14,000 I told her I was a personal manager and I'd kill to work with her. 307 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,120 And she said, "I'm leaving tomorrow and I'm going on the road 308 00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:18,840 "for about three weeks." 309 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,160 And in those days she booked herself, 310 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,520 she travelled with her guitar, she went alone on the road. 311 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,400 And I said, "Can I go with you?" 312 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,920 And she said, "Well, if you meet me at the airport tomorrow, 313 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:30,840 "I'm flying to Ann Arbor, Michigan. 314 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,760 "If you meet me at the airport and you're there...", and she gave me 315 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,520 the flight number, "..and you pay your own expenses, 316 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,400 "you can come with me." 317 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,920 And we did. I went on the road with her the next day. 318 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,960 Elliot became wildly excited about Joni, 319 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:50,280 and he introduced me to her, and I became her agent. 320 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:52,600 And, you know, it was the beginning of her career, 321 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:54,520 it was the beginning of our careers. 322 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,560 You know, everything was very small-time. 323 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:01,600 When she first came out, she had a backlog of 20, 25 songs 324 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,560 that were what most people would dream that they would do 325 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,720 in their entire career. 326 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,840 She had already done it before she had recorded. 327 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:11,960 It was stunning. 328 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,560 APPLAUSE 329 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:25,320 # Woke up, it was a Chelsea morning 330 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:27,880 # And the first thing that I heard 331 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,880 # Was a song outside my window 332 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,600 # And the traffic wrote the words 333 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,560 # It came a-ringing up like Christmas bells 334 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:42,960 # And rapping up like pipes and drums 335 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:46,320 # Oh, won't you stay? We'll put on the day 336 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:51,960 # And we'll wear it till the night comes... # 337 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,280 Joni invented everything about her music, 338 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,520 including how to tune the guitar. 339 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:58,680 From the beginning of the process of writing it, 340 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:03,920 she's building the canvas, as well as she is putting the paint on it. 341 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,320 # The red, green and gold... # 342 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,800 No-one's trained her. She's trained herself. 343 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,000 And even in these early compositions, 344 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,680 she finds a harmony, or a group of chords, 345 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,600 and, invariably, it's never straight on. 346 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,760 # There's a sun show every second... # 347 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,760 For years, everybody said, "Joni's weird chords, Joni's weird chords," 348 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,440 and I thought, "How can there be weird chords?" 349 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:30,400 Chords are depictions of emotions. 350 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:34,560 These chords that I was getting by twisting the knobs on the guitar 351 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:39,160 until I could get these chords that I heard inside that suited me, 352 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,640 they feel like my feelings. 353 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,880 You know, I call them, not knowing, chords of inquiry. 354 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,800 They have a question mark in them. 355 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:53,240 There were so many unresolved things in me that those chords 356 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:58,320 suited me and I'd stay in unresolved emotionality for days and days. 357 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,320 # The rainbow runs away 358 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,920 # I will bring you incense owls by night 359 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:09,920 # By candlelight, by jewel-light If only you will stay 360 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:11,880 # Pretty baby, won't you? 361 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:16,680 # Wake up, it's a Chelsea morning... # 362 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,000 It was a little daunting to be a singer-songwriter in her presence 363 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:24,200 because she was so good. She does it in a way that nobody else can do it. 364 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,680 She doesn't sound like anybody. 365 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,760 You hear her play and you say, "Oh, that's Joni." 366 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:36,240 # De de-de de-de... # 367 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,920 JONI REACHES HIGH NOTE 368 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,240 APPLAUSE 369 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,840 # Trinna wears her wampum beads 370 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:02,720 # She fills her drawing book with lines 371 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,400 # Sewing lace on widows' weeds 372 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:11,080 # And filigree on leaf and vine... # 373 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:15,240 Laurel Canyon in the late '60s was an incredible place to be. 374 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,280 It was the time everyone was coming out to California. 375 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,960 There was a camaraderie among all the artists. 376 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,640 There was always people coming over, up and down the canyon, 377 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:28,320 going from one house to another, playing new songs for each other. 378 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:29,760 There was so much happening. 379 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,960 Electric music was starting to happen. The acid rock was happening. 380 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,880 You know, the Byrds and the Airplane and the Grateful Dead, 381 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,560 all of those groups were playing all the small clubs. 382 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,640 # Annie sits you down to eat 383 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,640 # She always makes you... # 384 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,400 I can only liken it to Vienna in the turn of the century 385 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,000 or Paris in the '30s. 386 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:55,600 Laurel Canyon was very similar in that there was a freedom in the air. 387 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:59,680 There was a sense that we could do anything. 388 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,200 We were scruffy kids that were, in some small way, 389 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,280 changing the world, changing the way people think about things, 390 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,360 and there was a sharing of ideas 391 00:24:08,360 --> 00:24:13,160 and a true love for being 392 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,200 in the right place at the right time. 393 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:21,000 # La la-la la-la la-la... # 394 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:25,880 There really was an ethic of peace and love and art 395 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,520 and poetry amongst that crowd. 396 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:33,400 Poetry, even more than musicality, was revered 397 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,280 and Joan was the best poet at the time, 398 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,840 so it was the kind of period where she had a lot to say 399 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:40,440 and everyone wanted to hear it. 400 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,520 CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 401 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,320 # He'll drop his defences 402 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:55,480 # You'll see through the stone to the heart of the man... # 403 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,840 I took her around to people that I knew already loved music, 404 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:03,760 loved singer-songwriters, and I said, "Listen to this," 405 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,760 and I'd roll them a joint, get them high and sit down 406 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:13,640 and ask Joni to play, and the word spread pretty much like wildfire. 407 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,800 I'm finally going to make a record. I... 408 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:20,920 APPLAUSE 409 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,760 I did produce her first record, but I didn't do that great a job. 410 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:31,520 The only thing I did right was keep almost everything off of it, 411 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,680 keep it to just Joni and the songs. 412 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,840 Creatively, she knew where she wanted it to go 413 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,040 and what she wanted it to be. 414 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,640 She had a vision. She wasn't looking for input. 415 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:48,280 # Marcie in a coat of flowers 416 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:52,200 # Stops inside a candy store 417 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,920 # Reds are sweet and greens are sour 418 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:01,440 # Still no letter at her door... # 419 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,320 There's an innocence about this first album. 420 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,800 Song To A Seagull is a very rarefied, very pure, 421 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,120 very innocent musical experience. 422 00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:16,080 It's a poetic experience. 423 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:24,080 # Wave another day goodbye 424 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,240 # Marcie's faucet needs a plumber 425 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,440 # Marcie's sorrow needs a man... # 426 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,360 David Crosby once told me that 427 00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:38,440 if I ever ran across Joni Mitchell in my travels to introduce myself 428 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,360 because he thought that we would get on... 429 00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:44,520 ..and get on we did. 430 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:48,160 INTRO TO CONVERSATION 431 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:02,920 # He comes for conversation... # 432 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:07,400 She later took me back to her hotel, where she proceeded to play me 433 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,040 music that was...from another planet. 434 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,400 # Comfort and consultation... # 435 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,680 I was looking at this woman who was so beautiful, 436 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,800 surrounded by wonderful warm objects, candles and pieces of silk 437 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:25,880 and tapestry, gargoyles outside the window. 438 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,480 We were on the top floor. 439 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:34,480 Quite frankly, I'll never, ever forget that night. Ever. 440 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:39,680 # He sees me when he pleases 441 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,560 # I see him in cafes... # 442 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:45,840 I fell completely in love with Joni right then. 443 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,280 I had never heard, seen or met a creature like this in my life. 444 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,120 It was something else. 445 00:27:53,120 --> 00:27:55,600 APPLAUSE 446 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,440 It's a long way from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, to Carnegie Hall. 447 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,200 LAUGHTER 448 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,640 APPLAUSE 449 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,080 MAN SHOUTS: I love you! 450 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:14,320 The audience at Carnegie Hall were ecstatic that Joni was there. 451 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,160 I think it was jammed to the rafters. 452 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:22,400 # When morning comes to Morgantown 453 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,120 # The merchants roll their awnings down... # 454 00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:30,560 It was Joan's coming out in a really big way. 455 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,560 She brought her parents from Canada. This was a big deal. 456 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,760 # Morning, Morgantown 457 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:43,120 # Buy your dreams a dollar down... # 458 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:47,280 Well, Carnegie Hall the first time around was quite an event 459 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,000 on so many levels. 460 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:54,080 "New York loves you, Joni." It was wonderful. 461 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,000 She was magnificent that night. 462 00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:00,720 She had reached a place in her career that was indisputable. 463 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,160 APPLAUSE 464 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,680 A lot of the people in my audience are very tired 465 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,640 because they came here, I understand, from Woodstock 466 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,880 right here... 467 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,880 APPLAUSE 468 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,760 Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young had been asked to play Woodstock, 469 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:21,720 as had Joni. 470 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,440 We had arrived at La Guardia Airport 471 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:25,880 and I picked up the New York Times. 472 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,840 It said, "400,000 people sitting in mud," and I said to Joni, 473 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:31,480 "Let's not go." 474 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,920 It was decided at the airport that I couldn't go 475 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,800 because it would be difficult to get me in and get me out 476 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,360 and I had to do a television show, The Dick Cavett Show, 477 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:41,600 the following day. 478 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,800 It was her first national TV and it was a big break. 479 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,000 The boys weren't going to miss out on it. They rented a helicopter 480 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,440 and they got in, and not only did they get in, but they got out 481 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,280 because they crashed the TV show the next day. 482 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,280 Can I describe to you what it looked like flying in on a helicopter, man? 483 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:02,160 Yes. It looked like an encampment of the Macedonian army. 484 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,640 You know, when I look at that film, my heart was just breaking. 485 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,040 This was like... 486 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:13,080 ..the biggest event of my generation and I got THAT close to going 487 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:14,760 and being a part of it. 488 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:19,200 So, I stayed home in New York and I watched it on television all day 489 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,120 and saw everybody there playing and singing. 490 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:27,640 It was really a nice festival, I guess, from the looks of everything. 491 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:32,600 Well, I wrote a little song for my friends to sing, 492 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,240 and for myself to sing as well, and it's called Woodstock. 493 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:37,680 It goes like this. 494 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,360 By the time we got back to the hotel, 495 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,920 having gone through that tremendous experience, the song Woodstock 496 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:52,800 had already been basically written. 497 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:57,120 # I came upon a child of God 498 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,240 # He was walking along the road 499 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,600 # And I asked him I said, "Where are you going?" 500 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:10,560 # And this he told me 501 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,840 # I'm going on down to Yasgur's farm 502 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:21,240 # Gonna join in a rock and roll band 503 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,840 # I'm gonna camp out on the land 504 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:31,120 # Lord, I'm gonna try and get my soul free 505 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:35,960 # We are stardust 506 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:40,040 # We are golden 507 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:44,080 # And we've got to get ourselves 508 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:50,480 # Back to the garden... # 509 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,920 She contributed more towards people's understanding of that 510 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:56,880 event than anybody that was there. 511 00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:05,760 I think, throughout her work, there is an effort to make the music 512 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:10,040 be sky-bound, to relieve the body of temporality 513 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,440 and, when she gets there, oof! 514 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,400 It's almost a chant - this need for release and transcendence. 515 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:23,240 To ride above the culture, to be in the sky, to reflect, 516 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,960 to not be in it, but to look down upon it. 517 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:36,080 # I'll light the fire 518 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:40,920 # You place the flowers in the vase 519 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:45,640 # That you bought today 520 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,920 # Staring at the fire 521 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:58,120 # For hours and hours while I listen to you 522 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,680 # Play your love songs 523 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:07,800 # All night long for me 524 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:08,880 # Only for... # 525 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:10,440 It was an intense time. 526 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,360 It was an intense time of, "Who's going to get to the piano first? 527 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,480 "Who's going to fill up the space with their music first?" 528 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,520 I mean, we had two very creative writers living in the same space 529 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,760 and it was an interesting clash of, 530 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,520 "I want to get as close to you as possible, leave me alone to create." 531 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,160 # My old man 532 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:39,040 # He's a singer in the park 533 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,280 # He's a walker in the rain 534 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:42,800 # He's a dancer in... # 535 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:47,160 Graham and I have been the source of many songs for one another. 536 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:51,040 # We don't need no piece of paper from the city hall... # 537 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,680 A lot of beautiful music came from it 538 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,920 and a lot of beautiful times came from it. 539 00:33:55,920 --> 00:34:01,280 # My old man, keeping away my blues... # 540 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,280 How does a person write a song? 541 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:07,520 A lot of it is being open, I think, to encounter and, in a way, 542 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,040 in touch with the miraculous. 543 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,080 It has to do with the Irish blood, I think, and luck, 544 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,400 you know, whether the blarney is flowing. 545 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,680 Some nights, if you listen to the rattles of your own head, 546 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:25,520 it's more linguistically colourful or eccentric than other nights. 547 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,000 Is the blarney running or is it not? 548 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:37,440 You know, like, at any given time, it's not like, one night, 549 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,760 you'll trip over your tongue, you know, the words won't 550 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,800 come with the same facility, and, another night, it's just with you. 551 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:48,240 Why? Is it your biorhythms? Is it divine intervention, 552 00:34:48,240 --> 00:34:51,760 you know, saying, "You can't have it tonight"? 553 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,400 Watching her write was the most interesting process. 554 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,440 It's almost like she channels. 555 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:00,920 She was gone for hours. 556 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,160 I mean, she was physically right there, but she wasn't there. 557 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:09,280 She was gone. I'd say things to her and she wasn't even listening. 558 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,240 She was gone. And it was a great thing to see. 559 00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:15,520 Great thing to see somebody taken away by vision. 560 00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:23,280 # You could have been more than a name on the door 561 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:29,160 # On the 33rd floor in the air 562 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:32,960 # More than a credit card 563 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:39,000 # Swimming pool in the back yard 564 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,280 # While you still have the time 565 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,640 # You could get away and find a better life 566 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:49,640 # You know the grind is so ungrateful 567 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,160 # Racing cars, whisky bars 568 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:59,080 # No-one cares who you really are 569 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,560 # You're the keeper of the cards 570 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:05,560 # Yes, I know it gets hard 571 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,400 # Keeping the wheels turning 572 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:14,160 # And the wife, she keeps the keys... # 573 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:20,000 Joni looks for this magical riff, this little piece of 574 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:24,200 rhythm and harmony and melody that's going to set up 575 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,680 an extraordinary mood. 576 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,720 And when she finds it, you can almost see her and feel her, 577 00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:35,880 and you hear that from the opening of these tunes. 578 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,400 It envelops the listener, 579 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,760 but think how it envelops her when she finds it. 580 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,920 # More than a consumer Lying in some room... # 581 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,040 She lives with a great respect for this mystery 582 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,840 and with an openness, inviting this mystery. 583 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,680 This is her great strength 584 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:01,840 because I think it requires tremendous strength to really 585 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,320 believe in something that you cannot put your finger on. 586 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:31,120 # Love is but a song we sing 587 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:40,080 # Fear's the way we die... # 588 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,400 I had sworn my heart to Graham in a way that 589 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:48,400 I didn't think was possible for myself. 590 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:49,880 And he wanted me to marry him. 591 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:57,440 I'd agreed to it. 592 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:02,000 # Though the bird is on the wing... # 593 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,360 And then I just started thinking. 594 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,080 My grandmother was a frustrated poet and musician. 595 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,880 She kicked the kitchen door off of the hinges, 596 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:16,000 you know, on the farm. And I thought about my paternal grandmother, 597 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,520 who wept for the last time in her life at 14 behind some barn 598 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:20,920 because she wanted a piano 599 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,880 and said, "Dry your eyes, you silly girl, you'll never have a piano," 600 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:25,560 and I thought... 601 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:29,280 ..maybe I'm the one that got the gene that has to make it 602 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:30,800 happen for these two women. 603 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,440 As much as I loved and cared for Graham... 604 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,240 ..I just thought, "I'm going to end up like my grandmother, 605 00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:41,480 "kicking the door off the hinges." You know what I mean? It's like... 606 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,720 ..I'd better not. And it broke my heart. 607 00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:49,000 This year, I took some time off from touring and went off 608 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:54,040 on some adventures of my own, and this is kind of a letter back home. 609 00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,120 # Sitting in a park in Paris, France 610 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:00,880 # Reading the news and it's all bad 611 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,320 # They won't give peace a chance 612 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,320 # That was just a dream some of us had... # 613 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:10,680 I remember getting a telegram from Greece from Joan 614 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,360 the last line of which was, 615 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:17,400 "If you hold sand too tightly in your hand, 616 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,760 "it will run through your fingers." 617 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:23,720 It was Joan's way of saying goodbye to me. 618 00:39:23,720 --> 00:39:26,840 PIANO INTRO TO BLUE 619 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:45,320 # Blue-ooh 620 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:50,680 # Songs are like tattoos 621 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:55,600 # You know I've been to sea before 622 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,920 # Crown and anchor me 623 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:06,160 # Or let me sail away 624 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:11,760 # Hey, Blue 625 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,920 # There is a song for you, too 626 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,120 # Ink on a pin 627 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,520 # Underneath the skin 628 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:27,920 # An empty space to fill in 629 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:32,880 # Well, there're so many sinking 630 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:34,880 # Now you've got to keep thinking 631 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:39,520 # You can make it through these waves... # 632 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:43,840 Yeah, during the making of Blue I was just so thin-skinned 633 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,160 and delicate that if anybody looked at me, 634 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:48,840 I'd burst into tears. 635 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,120 I was so vulnerable and I felt so naked in my work. 636 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:57,440 # Everybody's saying that hell's the hippest way to go 637 00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,880 # Well, I don't think so 638 00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:06,400 # But I'm gonna take a look around it, though, Blue 639 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:13,040 # I love you 640 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:16,480 # I love you... # 641 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:21,080 My individual psychological descent coincided, ironically, 642 00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,720 with my ascent into the public eye. 643 00:41:23,720 --> 00:41:26,400 They were putting me on a pedestal and I was wobbling. 644 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,520 # Blue 645 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:31,560 # Here is a shell for you... # 646 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,080 So, you know, I took it upon myself that 647 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,000 since I was a public voice and was subject to this kind of weird 648 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,160 worship, that they should know who they were worshipping. 649 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:56,400 # There is your song from me. # 650 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:03,800 I was demanding of myself a deeper and greater honesty, 651 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,720 more and more revelation in my work, 652 00:42:07,720 --> 00:42:09,800 in order to give it back to the people 653 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,400 where it goes into their lives and nourishes them 654 00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,280 and changes their direction and, you know, 655 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:16,960 makes light bulbs go off in their head, 656 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:21,200 and makes them feel, and, you know... And it isn't vague, 657 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,720 it strikes against the very nerves of their life, and in order 658 00:42:24,720 --> 00:42:27,920 to do that, you've to strike against the very nerves of your own. 659 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:34,960 # Just before our love got lost you said 660 00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,400 # "I am as constant as a northern star" 661 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:42,280 # And I said, "Constantly in the darkness 662 00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:44,360 # "Where's that at? 663 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:48,520 # "If you want me I'll be in the bar..." # 664 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,120 I remember playing it for Kris Kristofferson and he was 665 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,480 kind of shocked by it, said, "Oh, Joni," you know, 666 00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:56,880 "save something of yourself." 667 00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:01,000 I think he'd felt that I had gone too... 668 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,520 Revealed too much or something, 669 00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:05,680 I'd leave myself too vulnerable. 670 00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:12,360 I think she was very insecure whether it was good, you know? 671 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:13,960 Whether she'd... 672 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,560 I think she felt basically she had taken her skin and turned it inside out. 673 00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:23,600 # Oh, you're in my blood like holy wine 674 00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:28,080 # You taste so bitter and so sweet 675 00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:35,600 # Oh, I could drink a case of you, darling 676 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,680 # And I would still be on my feet 677 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:41,760 # I would still be on my feet... # 678 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,320 It was naked, pulsating, great poetry. 679 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:47,840 Blue just went to a level of psychic pain and honesty 680 00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,200 that no-one else had ever written before 681 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,320 and no-one else has written since. 682 00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:58,080 # Oh, I am a lonely painter 683 00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:02,120 # I live in a box of paints 684 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,120 # I'm frightened by the devil 685 00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:14,520 # And I'm drawn to those ones that ain't afraid 686 00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:18,600 # I remember that time that you told me 687 00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:23,400 # You said, "Love is touching souls" 688 00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:25,880 # Surely you touched mine 689 00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:30,920 # Cos part of you pours out of me 690 00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:34,640 # In these lines from time to time 691 00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:38,040 # Oh... # 692 00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:42,320 Blue turned forever on its head the notion of what a songwriter 693 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,080 was expected to be. 694 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,560 Joni became enormously popular through that, 695 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,920 and people didn't just love her the way that people love 696 00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,680 the Rolling Stones and Motown, 697 00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:57,480 they really felt this woman, by the light of this record player, 698 00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:58,880 is looking into my soul. 699 00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:03,320 You know, a very confusing place for the artist to find herself, too. 700 00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:08,720 APPLAUSE 701 00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,360 CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 702 00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,680 The club thing was very informal and kind of fun, 703 00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,960 whereas the big stage I hated from the moment that I went up there. 704 00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:26,320 I didn't like that lofty adoration. 705 00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,000 It seemed deluded. 706 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,360 The idea of people at my knees was just horrifying to me. 707 00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:38,280 # Now me, I play for fortunes 708 00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:47,000 # And those velvet curtain calls 709 00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:53,480 # I've got a black limousine 710 00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:57,200 # And two gentlemen 711 00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:05,720 # Escorting me to the halls 712 00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:14,240 # Now, I play if you have the money 713 00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:23,040 # Or if you're a friend to me 714 00:46:24,240 --> 00:46:27,600 # But the one-man band 715 00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,720 # By the quick lunch stand 716 00:46:30,720 --> 00:46:35,040 # He was playing real good 717 00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:43,760 # For free... # 718 00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:51,440 VOICEOVER: Fame made me really nervous and uncomfortable. 719 00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,440 You know, maybe I'm kind of weird but, you know, 720 00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:55,280 when I'm sitting up here and playing 721 00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,760 and I hear all those people growling out there and people saying, 722 00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:02,280 "Joni, smile for Amsterdam," and stuff, it really puts me uptight 723 00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,720 and I forget the words, and then I get nervous and it's really a drag. 724 00:47:05,720 --> 00:47:09,480 VOICEOVER: I began to dislike, more and more, being a public person. 725 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,360 Give me a little help, will you, so that I can... 726 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,480 VOICEOVER: So I isolated myself 727 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,520 and I made my attempt to get back to the garden. 728 00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,520 # It's coming on Christmas 729 00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:23,760 # They're cutting down trees 730 00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:25,680 # They're putting up reindeer 731 00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,720 # And singing songs of joy and peace 732 00:47:28,720 --> 00:47:31,720 # Oh, I wish I had a river 733 00:47:31,720 --> 00:47:36,280 # I could skate away on 734 00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,040 # But it don't snow here 735 00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:41,880 # It stays pretty green 736 00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:43,680 # I'm going to make a lot of money 737 00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,920 # Then I'm going to quit this crazy scene 738 00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,760 # I wish I had a river 739 00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:53,760 # I could skate away on... # 740 00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:56,280 I moved up into the Canadian back bush to a small sanctuary 741 00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:57,760 where I could be alone. 742 00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:02,120 Lived with kerosene, stayed away from electricity for about a year. 743 00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:03,680 I turned to nature. 744 00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:07,280 I was going down, 745 00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,960 and with that came a tremendous sense of knowing nothing. 746 00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:14,000 Western psychology might call it a nervous breakdown, 747 00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,520 but in certain cultures they call it a shamanic conversion. 748 00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,520 I read nearly every psychological book that I could lay my hands on 749 00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,080 and threw them all against the wall, basically. 750 00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:32,840 But depression can be the sand that makes the pearl. 751 00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:34,880 Most of my best work came out of it. 752 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,400 # It's coming on Christmas... # 753 00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:40,160 If you get rid of the demons, or the disturbing things, 754 00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,960 if you get rid of them then the angels fly off, too. 755 00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:48,480 So there is a possibility, in that mire, of an epiphany. 756 00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:55,240 # I could skate away on. # 757 00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:10,560 # I heard it in the wind last night 758 00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,440 # It sounded like applause 759 00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:18,160 # Did you get a round resounding for you way up here? 760 00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:22,160 # Seems like many dim years ago 761 00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:24,760 # Since I heard that face-to-face 762 00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:26,920 # Or seen you face-to-face 763 00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:29,920 # Though tonight I can feel you here... # 764 00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:33,960 I took my own advice and I got myself back to the garden. 765 00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:38,000 Well, I am too urban, as it turns out, 766 00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:41,280 and in a year or so I was back in the cities again. 767 00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:44,600 # I guess I seem ungrateful 768 00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:47,720 # With my teeth sunk in the hand 769 00:49:47,720 --> 00:49:49,600 # That brings me things 770 00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:52,560 # I really can't give up just yet... # 771 00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:56,040 When I came back, I came to stay with David Geffen as a guest, 772 00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,680 and was kind of the woman who came to dinner. 773 00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:03,680 I ended up staying on for a while. 774 00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:05,160 We were roommates. 775 00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:07,240 It was a very heady time, you know? 776 00:50:07,240 --> 00:50:10,920 It was very tumultuous and a lot of fun, and '70s. 777 00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:23,760 I kept on telling Joni I wanted her to write a hit, 778 00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,680 and she was always kind of making fun of me, you know, about the idea 779 00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:30,000 that she should have a hit, but I wanted her to sell a lot of records. 780 00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:36,280 # If you're driving into town with a dark cloud above you 781 00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:40,240 # Dial in the number who's bound to love you 782 00:50:40,240 --> 00:50:42,720 # Oh, honey, you turn me on 783 00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:45,080 # I'm a radio 784 00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:47,680 # I'm a country station 785 00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:49,720 # I'm a little bit corny... # 786 00:50:49,720 --> 00:50:52,320 I remember when she sang it to me, you know? 787 00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,560 I mean, it was almost with a kind of, like, 788 00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:58,240 making fun of my attempt for her to write a hit record. 789 00:50:58,240 --> 00:51:01,960 # I'm a country station, I'm a little bit corny... # 790 00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:03,600 # If your head says forget it 791 00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:06,200 # But your heart's still smoking... # 792 00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:09,080 I wrote a song called You Turn Me On, I'm A Radio, 793 00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:13,040 out of blatant commercial... 794 00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:13,040 SHE GIGGLES 795 00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:14,200 I just thought... 796 00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:16,880 I thought it would have a certain amount of disc jockey appeal 797 00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:20,920 since it was full of things like the recording tower and, you know, 798 00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,800 "call me at the station" and everything, and it was just, 799 00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:27,480 like, sort of my own peculiar warped sense of humour. 800 00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:29,360 # Feeling all right 801 00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:31,960 # Oh 802 00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:35,680 # I'm not feeling too good myself 803 00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:38,440 # Oh 804 00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:41,480 # Feeling all right 805 00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:42,960 # All right 806 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:44,560 # All right 807 00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:46,400 # All right... # 808 00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:48,840 Joni has always wanted to be part of the gang. 809 00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:53,120 As feminine as she is, she's always wanted to be one of the boys. 810 00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:57,080 And when she played with the L.A. Express, 811 00:51:57,080 --> 00:51:59,960 she probably just created her own little gang. 812 00:51:59,960 --> 00:52:04,200 # He was sitting in the lounge... # 813 00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:06,680 She loved the camaraderie of all these guys who were great, 814 00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:11,040 great players and who recognised what a great guitar player she was, 815 00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:13,800 and the joy of just having a killer rhythm section. 816 00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:15,320 It was so much more fun. 817 00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:16,600 # Let me sit down 818 00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,440 # You know, drinkin' alone's a shame... # 819 00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:23,440 Now being on a stage with a group of people, I can go back and I can say, 820 00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:25,480 "Weren't we great?" if we were, 821 00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:28,360 or, "Ooh, weren't we awful?" if we weren't. 822 00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:29,960 So it's not such a lonely thing. 823 00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:36,560 Her image was the vulnerable blonde. 824 00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:42,800 And when she went with a band, there was something masculine about it. 825 00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:44,600 There was a certain power 826 00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:48,400 and confidence that was conveyed 827 00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:52,000 through the bass and the drums, 828 00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,840 and nobody ever heard her sing like this before. 829 00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:02,040 # Come up to my kitchen, I'll show you my best recipe... # 830 00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:05,200 REPORTER: Do you think that the fact that you're singing with a band now, 831 00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:10,160 you might lose something by losing that vulnerable image? 832 00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:12,400 Well, I don't want to be vulnerable any more. 833 00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:15,880 THEY LAUGH 834 00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:20,080 I think people have this image and idea of this fragile Nordic goddess 835 00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:22,440 who's descending from the mountains, like... 836 00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:25,160 ..wisps of Wagner and... 837 00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:27,760 ..Tiffany wind chimes behind her. 838 00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:30,920 But later on, you know, I think when she got infected 839 00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:32,760 with rock and roll, she turned into, like, 840 00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:34,320 a red-hot mama, flesh and blood. 841 00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:40,520 # Come home with me, honey, I ain't asking for no full-length mink coat 842 00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:42,920 # Hey, where you going? 843 00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:44,240 # Don't go yet 844 00:53:44,240 --> 00:53:46,600 # Your glass ain't empty and we just met 845 00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:48,520 # You're mean when you're loaded 846 00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:51,600 # I was raised on robbery... # 847 00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:57,240 I shouldn't be stereotyped as a magic princess, 848 00:53:57,240 --> 00:53:59,240 as I got earlier in my career, you know? 849 00:53:59,240 --> 00:54:02,520 The sort of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star kind of attitude, you know? 850 00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:04,480 I didn't like that feeling. 851 00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:08,080 And I think that the band will only show that there is another 852 00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:09,720 side to the music. 853 00:54:09,720 --> 00:54:11,240 I think it's a good expansion. 854 00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:18,640 Court And Spark was a great achievement for Joni. 855 00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:22,080 It catapulted her into the forefront of recording stars. 856 00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:24,800 It was a triumph. 857 00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:36,840 Court And Spark was a discourse on romantic love 858 00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:39,760 against the backdrops of its time. 859 00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:43,280 # Again and again the same situation 860 00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:46,920 # For so many years 861 00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:50,200 # Tethered to a ringing telephone 862 00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:54,440 # In a room full of mirrors... # 863 00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:57,160 John Guerin and I fell in love 864 00:54:57,160 --> 00:54:59,760 during the making of Court And Spark. 865 00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:03,880 He was a drummer, and we courted and sparked. 866 00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:10,120 # I asked myself when you said that you loved me 867 00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:14,360 # "Do you think this can be real?" 868 00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:20,640 # You've had lots of lovely women 869 00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:24,080 # Now you turn your gaze to me... # 870 00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:27,480 In order to get the right spirit into the music, 871 00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:30,400 there's got to be more than a working relationship. 872 00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:32,440 There has to be a sense of passion, 873 00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:36,120 there has to be something there for the heart, 874 00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:38,720 there has to be something there for the intellect, 875 00:55:38,720 --> 00:55:42,880 there has to be something there for the sensuality and sensation. 876 00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:46,400 # Sometimes you turn it on me like a weapon, though 877 00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:51,720 # And I need your approval... # 878 00:55:51,720 --> 00:55:56,120 A major theme in her work, the struggle between wanting to settle 879 00:55:56,120 --> 00:56:01,040 down with a man, longing for love and this desire for independence. 880 00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:05,320 # I said, "Send me somebody 881 00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:09,960 # "Who's strong and somewhat sincere" 882 00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:14,400 # With the millions of the lost and lonely ones 883 00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:19,040 # I called out to be released 884 00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:24,760 # Caught in my struggle for higher achievement 885 00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:31,640 # And my search for a love that don't seem to cease... # 886 00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:35,280 It defines her life all the way through, 887 00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:40,160 this need for love and this sense of obligation to her art, 888 00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:42,640 to follow her muse. 889 00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:47,160 It's an ongoing conflict in her life and, of course, it fuels the art. 890 00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:57,280 Anything which moves me, influences me. 891 00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:02,160 Now, at this time in my life, I'm going 892 00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:05,520 through a strong musical change from playing with this band 893 00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:08,640 whose chordal sense comes predominantly from jazz. 894 00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:14,280 # I'm travelling in some vehicle 895 00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:20,800 # I'm sitting in some cafe 896 00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:25,760 # A defector from the petty wars 897 00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:28,680 # That shellshocked love away... # 898 00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:32,920 The need to innovate or to be fresh or to be original 899 00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:34,560 is very strong in me. 900 00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:36,400 # There's comfort in melancholy... # 901 00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:39,920 She has this great need for this new language. 902 00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:44,000 When she finishes through a set of feelings, 903 00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:47,560 she has to invent yet another language to keep going. 904 00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:53,200 She understood that she was going to need the sounds 905 00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:58,080 and talents of these other artists to keep the language going. 906 00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:02,520 # So much could not be expressed... # 907 00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:05,480 And so she surrounded herself with people like her engineer, 908 00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:11,080 her musicians, who allowed her to change, to be original, 909 00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:12,880 and Henry was one of those. 910 00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:16,560 Henry Lewy was Joni's engineer for many years, 911 00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:18,480 and was a big influence. 912 00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:23,720 Henry and I had a dialogue that I guess had gotten fairly cryptic. 913 00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:25,920 I never learned the proper names for things 914 00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:27,560 and gave everything nicknames. 915 00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:31,560 "Put a little more Elvis on it," for instance, a little more echo. 916 00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:33,760 And somebody turned to Henry, I forget who it was, 917 00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:35,920 and said, "Do you understand what she's saying?" 918 00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:37,880 And he smiled, and he said, "Every word." 919 00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:42,760 The lovely thing is to watch her grow, year after year, 920 00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:46,280 as a human being, as a musician, as a poet. 921 00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:49,680 She started out being a poetess and a painter, 922 00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:51,440 so now it's gotten to the stage where she's, 923 00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:53,800 like, painting with a large palette of oil colours, 924 00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:56,920 instead of just a very small palette of watercolours. 925 00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:01,960 # You know it never has been easy 926 00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:08,280 # Whether you do or you do not resign 927 00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:12,040 # Whether you travel the breadth of extremities 928 00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:16,320 # Or stick to some straighter line... # 929 00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:21,160 I had tried all along to add other musicians to my music. 930 00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:24,600 Nearly every bass player that I tried did the same thing. 931 00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:27,360 They would put up a dark picket fence through my music 932 00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:30,560 and I thought, "Why does it have to go ploddy, ploddy, ploddy?" 933 00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:34,480 Finally, one guy said to me, 934 00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:36,960 "Joni, you'd better play with jazz musicians." 935 00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:39,680 With Hejira there was a real collaboration with 936 00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:44,840 Jaco Pastorius, the jazz bass player, in which his bass 937 00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:50,040 and her voice became a man-woman duet, an extremely intimate, 938 00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:54,000 deep dialogue between two musicians. 939 00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:56,000 # Coyote's in the coffee shop 940 00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:59,320 # He's staring a hole in his scrambled eggs 941 00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:02,760 # He picks up my scent on his fingers 942 01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:05,320 # While he's watching the waitresses' legs... # 943 01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:09,960 Joni always looked way beyond whatever genre she seemed to be in. 944 01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:13,640 She just kept exploring new boundaries, new frontiers. 945 01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:17,720 She was really one of the first, if not the first mainstream musician 946 01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:21,080 to plunge into what hadn't even been called world music yet, 947 01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:22,760 but really was world music, 948 01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:25,800 and really explore it, bring it into her vocabulary. 949 01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:31,040 BASS SOLO 950 01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:37,440 CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 951 01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:40,920 MUSIC: Cotton Avenue by Joni Mitchell 952 01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:49,960 # A red sun came rolling down a grey sky... # 953 01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:53,040 One of my favourite compliments that I ever received was from 954 01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:55,240 a black blind piano player, and he said to me, 955 01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:57,960 "Joni, you make genderless, raceless music," 956 01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:00,960 and I thought, well, I hadn't set out, you know, saying, 957 01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:03,320 "I'm going to make genderless, raceless music," 958 01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:06,360 but I did want to make music that crossed... 959 01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:08,800 I never really liked lines, class lines, 960 01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:12,960 social structure lines, and I ignored them always. 961 01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:24,000 Mingus called me from his deathbed to do his last project with him. 962 01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:28,920 He'd heard Don Juan's Reckless Daughter 963 01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:31,000 and was intrigued by it. 964 01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:34,120 And I think because I was dressed like a black man on it, 965 01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:38,640 he was totally intrigued with, you know, the audacity of that act. 966 01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:44,080 Joan was flattered that, "My God, this man who I so admire 967 01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:47,160 "and has been such a ground-setter and trend-setter, 968 01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:51,640 "and has been such an important influence in his genre for so long, 969 01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:54,280 "picked me to do his last project." 970 01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:57,040 Management begged me, 971 01:01:57,040 --> 01:02:00,400 "Don't do this, you're just going to plummet into obscurity." 972 01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:03,680 We talked about it at that time, "It's going to offend some people, 973 01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:05,960 "and it's not going to get radio play," 974 01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:08,480 but there was no thinking about it for Joan. 975 01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:10,120 She would not be marketed 976 01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:13,320 and she would not let the marketing affect what she was going to do. 977 01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:18,840 That was a great opportunity to study with a great teacher. 978 01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:21,520 I felt that it was meant to be, 979 01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:25,880 in that I've been sticking my big toe into the lake of jazz, 980 01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:29,320 metaphorically, and Charles pushed me right in. 981 01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:36,760 JAZZ KEYBOARD PLAYS 982 01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:38,360 I went to see him 983 01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:40,480 and I came through the door of his apartment 984 01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:42,480 and all I saw was this hulking figure, 985 01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:43,880 from behind in this wheelchair. 986 01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:47,920 When I came around in front of him, whoa, man, this face was, like, 987 01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:50,880 glowing full of the devil and beautiful light 988 01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:55,840 and, you know, just this beautiful open face. 989 01:02:56,840 --> 01:02:59,040 He gave me a tape with six melodies 990 01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:02,760 which he called Joni one, two, three, four, five, six, 991 01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:05,960 and the first song was a bit of a Rumpelstiltskin puzzle. 992 01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:08,680 I said to Charles, "What do you feel this piece of music is about?" 993 01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:11,000 He said, "Well, this is about the things I'm going to miss 994 01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:12,760 "and the things I wish I'd done," 995 01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:14,520 and I looked at him and he looked at me 996 01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:17,640 and I thought, "He must have a million pieces of music left 997 01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:21,400 "in his head unfulfilled, plus the adventure is slipping away." 998 01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:28,320 # Debating this sentence, biding my time 999 01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:34,680 # In memories 1000 01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:39,200 # Of old friends of mine... # 1001 01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:42,560 When I finished it, I think he was very surprised that I would 1002 01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:45,760 have that insight into him, and yet, at the same time, intuitively, 1003 01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:49,800 he knew I would. He must have, otherwise he wouldn't have called. 1004 01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:52,840 # Burning up the bandstand... # 1005 01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:55,160 I went and cut it with the band of my dreams, 1006 01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:58,840 and with the concept that we would all be so braided together 1007 01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:01,520 that you couldn't take it apart, it would be a sheet of sound. 1008 01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:04,240 That was the concept. 1009 01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:07,320 # I'm down to a roll of dimes 1010 01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:09,800 # I'm stalking the slot that's hot 1011 01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:12,200 # I keep hearing bells all around me 1012 01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:14,880 # Jingling the lucky jackpots 1013 01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:16,120 # They keep you tantalised 1014 01:04:16,120 --> 01:04:18,240 # They keep you reaching for your wallet 1015 01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:19,920 # Here in fool's paradise... # 1016 01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:26,320 I had no idea she had that much of a kind of freedom 1017 01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:31,280 in her approach to the music that was so compatible with jazz. 1018 01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:33,120 # I dropped a dime, I blew it 1019 01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:35,200 # He kept ringing bells... # 1020 01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:38,600 She could see putting another kind of dressing around the music, 1021 01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:43,080 another way to kind of weave a different kind of tapestry, 1022 01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:47,960 and still capture the essence of Charlie Mingus, but her way. 1023 01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:49,920 # It's all luck, it's just luck 1024 01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:53,400 # You get a little lucky and you make a little money... # 1025 01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:58,240 She wanted to realise the freedom of creation, and when we recorded, 1026 01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:04,440 we tried to make the music, like, deliver that feeling of adventure. 1027 01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:07,880 # We came up from the subway 1028 01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:11,360 # On the music midnight makes... # 1029 01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:13,760 The press just thought I'd lost my marbles, I think. 1030 01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:15,920 You know, "What is she doing now?" You know. 1031 01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:19,040 She was very disappointed when people did not understand 1032 01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:20,520 her change of musical direction, 1033 01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:23,160 and I think it brought Joan a lot of pain that she wasn't 1034 01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:27,440 seen as the creative free-form artist that she really is, 1035 01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:30,840 that she was pigeonholed into being this blonde folk singer image 1036 01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:33,760 that she has been trying to escape for years 1037 01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:35,560 and years and years and years. 1038 01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:38,880 # Music, do-do... # 1039 01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:42,160 Joni was exercising something called freedom. 1040 01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:44,360 And inclusion instead of exclusion. 1041 01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:48,960 # Dancing outside this crowded black bar... # 1042 01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:51,800 It's not about style, it's about her artistic commitment, 1043 01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:54,320 it's about her musical exploration. 1044 01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:56,840 It doesn't matter what you draw from, who cares? 1045 01:05:56,840 --> 01:05:59,920 A bit from jazz, a bit from... What's the difference? 1046 01:05:59,920 --> 01:06:01,520 It's hers. 1047 01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:10,720 # And there were two brand-new little musicians dancing there 1048 01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:16,280 # Tonight. # 1049 01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:22,200 MUSIC: A Chair In The Sky by Joni Mitchell 1050 01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:32,680 Any time I make a record, it's followed by a painting period. 1051 01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:34,600 It's good crop rotation. 1052 01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:40,200 I keep the creative juices going by switching from one to the other, 1053 01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:46,080 so that when the music or the writing dries up, I paint. 1054 01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:49,240 You rest the ear a while and you rest the inner mind, 1055 01:06:49,240 --> 01:06:52,200 because poetry takes a lot of plumbing the depths. 1056 01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:55,440 I mean, the way I write, anyway, it takes a lot of meditation. 1057 01:06:57,640 --> 01:07:02,160 Without the painting to clear the head, I don't think I could do it. 1058 01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:09,920 It's almost as if painting completely takes her out of being 1059 01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:12,440 who she is, even though her paintings are also 1060 01:07:12,440 --> 01:07:14,800 a great part of who she is. 1061 01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:17,600 SHE SCATS 1062 01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:29,320 There were three things Picasso did in order to create a new period. 1063 01:07:29,320 --> 01:07:32,280 One, he would return home to Spain - that always did it. 1064 01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:33,960 Two, he would get a new house. 1065 01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:35,600 Three, he would get a new woman. 1066 01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:36,840 LAUGHS 1067 01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:38,440 UPBEAT '80S ROCK MUSIC 1068 01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:50,280 # He came, she smiled 1069 01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:52,120 # She thought she had... # 1070 01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:56,720 When I began working with her, the songs that she was writing 1071 01:07:56,720 --> 01:07:59,440 were born out of a desire to adopt 1072 01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:04,840 a more direct method of communicating what she was thinking. 1073 01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:07,360 # In the dark, he could see... # 1074 01:08:07,360 --> 01:08:09,520 The response to Mingus was very negative, 1075 01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:13,000 and I think that she felt that she needed to go back a little bit 1076 01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:15,720 more towards the traditional song. 1077 01:08:15,720 --> 01:08:20,240 # Wild things run fast... # 1078 01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:21,960 With Wild Things, 1079 01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:24,840 we had put together a rock band with tremendous virtuosity 1080 01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:28,400 in that band, and a lot of the music written about that 1081 01:08:28,400 --> 01:08:32,920 was the celebration of this friendship between Klein and I, 1082 01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:35,440 which had turned into love. 1083 01:08:35,440 --> 01:08:41,720 MUSIC: Underneath The Streetlight by Joni Mitchell 1084 01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:46,240 Being in love is extremely important to her muse. 1085 01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:51,880 A lot of her creative impulses come from whatever that phenomenon is 1086 01:08:51,880 --> 01:08:54,600 that happens to us when we fall in love. 1087 01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:57,040 # Yes, I do, I love ya! 1088 01:08:57,040 --> 01:08:59,920 # I swear on the blinkin' planes above, I do 1089 01:08:59,920 --> 01:09:02,640 # I swear on the truck at the stoplight... # 1090 01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:05,520 I was writing about romantic love, 1091 01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:09,520 but the '80s were not romantic times. 1092 01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:14,400 The press said, "She used the L-word 44 times on this record." 1093 01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:17,520 Nobody could handle the fact that there was a celebration of love 1094 01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:25,320 going on, and they were in this deadly cold-hearted period. 1095 01:09:25,320 --> 01:09:28,920 ACOUSTIC GUITAR AND SYNTH PLAY 1096 01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:44,600 # Back in 1957, we had to dance a foot apart 1097 01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:52,000 # And they hawk-eyed us from the sidelines 1098 01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:57,360 # Holding their rulers without a heart... # 1099 01:09:57,360 --> 01:10:00,120 The writing has been an exercise, 1100 01:10:00,120 --> 01:10:02,640 trying to work my way towards clarity. 1101 01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:05,280 Get out the pen and face the beast yourself, 1102 01:10:05,280 --> 01:10:06,840 and what's bothering you, and... 1103 01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:08,920 "Right, well, that's not exactly it." You know? 1104 01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:11,880 "OK, let's go a little deeper. Well, that's not exactly it..." 1105 01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:15,120 Very hard peeling the layers off your own onion. 1106 01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:18,920 # Was just to come in from the cold... # 1107 01:10:18,920 --> 01:10:24,120 When you get to the truth, you know, do I want to say that in public? 1108 01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:28,360 # I am not some stone commission 1109 01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:31,720 # Like a statue in a park 1110 01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:39,480 # I am flesh and blood and vision 1111 01:10:39,480 --> 01:10:43,360 # I am howling in the dark... # 1112 01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:47,200 So you're really doing a tightrope walk to keep your heart alive, 1113 01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:52,520 to keep your art alive, to keep it vital and useful to others. 1114 01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:54,920 This is now useful because we've hit upon a human truth. 1115 01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:57,520 # But all I ever wanted 1116 01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:02,560 # Was just to come in from the cold... # 1117 01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:04,200 She tells the truth about herself, 1118 01:11:04,200 --> 01:11:07,480 she tells the truth about what she observes in the world. 1119 01:11:07,480 --> 01:11:10,240 It's almost like a welder, 1120 01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:13,280 when you see them when they put those visors down 1121 01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:17,080 and you see that welding torch and that heat and that point of contact 1122 01:11:17,080 --> 01:11:19,480 between the flame and the object... 1123 01:11:19,480 --> 01:11:22,040 I think that's where Joni likes to live, 1124 01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:25,200 right, right in that essence. 1125 01:11:25,200 --> 01:11:31,200 CROWD APPLAUD BAND BEGINS TO PLAY 1126 01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:44,560 # I pulled up behind a Cadillac 1127 01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:47,480 # I was waiting for the light 1128 01:11:48,720 --> 01:11:51,920 # I took a look at his licence plate 1129 01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:56,360 # And it said "Just Ice" 1130 01:11:56,360 --> 01:11:59,760 # Is justice just ice? 1131 01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:03,040 # Governed by greed and lust? 1132 01:12:03,040 --> 01:12:08,120 # Just the strong doing what they can 1133 01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:11,680 # And the weak suffering what they must? 1134 01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:15,480 # And the gas leaks 1135 01:12:15,480 --> 01:12:17,960 # And the oil spills 1136 01:12:19,320 --> 01:12:21,760 # And sex sells everything 1137 01:12:23,200 --> 01:12:26,200 # And sex kills 1138 01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:30,960 # Oh, sex kills 1139 01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:41,560 # Doctor's pills give you brand-new ills and... 1140 01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:46,080 # The bills bury you like an avalanche 1141 01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:48,840 # And lawyers haven't been this popular 1142 01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:52,280 # Since Robespierre slaughtered half of France... # 1143 01:12:52,280 --> 01:12:54,960 The artist is the canary in the coalmine. 1144 01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:57,440 I mean, we're supposed to be out there on the fringes 1145 01:12:57,440 --> 01:12:58,720 with an overview. 1146 01:12:58,720 --> 01:13:01,360 If we are doing our work, we should be a little ahead of the stripe, 1147 01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:02,840 but people kept saying things like, 1148 01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:04,360 "Aren't you being very negative?" 1149 01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:06,200 I'd said, "No, I'm just being realistic. 1150 01:13:06,200 --> 01:13:08,680 "Aren't you being a bit of an ostrich, you know?" 1151 01:13:08,680 --> 01:13:10,960 # And the gas leaks 1152 01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:15,760 # And the oil spills 1153 01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:19,840 # And sex sells everything 1154 01:13:19,840 --> 01:13:22,880 # And sex kills... # 1155 01:13:25,440 --> 01:13:28,760 After we started making Turbulent Indigo, 1156 01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:32,920 we just reached a point where we were just not good for each other 1157 01:13:32,920 --> 01:13:34,320 as husband and wife. 1158 01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:37,800 You know, the thing that carries you through in a relationship 1159 01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:41,520 is not romantic love. We started out as friends, 1160 01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:45,160 and that's what ended up carrying us through ten years, 1161 01:13:45,160 --> 01:13:47,960 which is not a bad run. 1162 01:13:47,960 --> 01:13:51,520 When we split up, we got back to being friends, 1163 01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:54,040 and now I would say she's my best friend. 1164 01:13:57,360 --> 01:14:00,600 MUSIC: Tiger Bones by Joni Mitchell 1165 01:14:08,240 --> 01:14:10,480 Well, in the '90s, they really started giving Joni 1166 01:14:10,480 --> 01:14:12,400 every kind of honour and award, 1167 01:14:12,400 --> 01:14:14,840 they really rolled out the red carpet. 1168 01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:18,480 But I think she probably figured they were honouring her 1169 01:14:18,480 --> 01:14:19,920 for the wrong things. 1170 01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:24,200 Once one was given to me, the others felt the necessity to do it, 1171 01:14:24,200 --> 01:14:26,640 but they didn't really know why. 1172 01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:29,560 The day after I won the Grammy for Turbulent Indigo, 1173 01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:32,280 there was an article that came out in a newspaper that said, 1174 01:14:32,280 --> 01:14:34,200 "Singer-Songwriters: Then and Now." 1175 01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:35,960 This was a day after I won a Grammy, 1176 01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:37,440 and I was in the "then" column. 1177 01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:40,640 I do some interviews and they go, 1178 01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:43,440 "You, you know, you're that folk singer from the '60s." 1179 01:14:43,440 --> 01:14:45,360 I said, "Look, I just won three... 1180 01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:48,320 "We are in the '90s now, I've won Grammys like all... 1181 01:14:48,320 --> 01:14:50,960 "Doesn't that make me an artist of the '90s?" 1182 01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:53,240 # Accolades and honours 1183 01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:55,680 # One false move and you're a goner... # 1184 01:14:55,680 --> 01:14:57,840 There's been a tremendous amount of growth. 1185 01:14:57,840 --> 01:15:02,120 An actress is not expected to continue to play her ingenue roles. 1186 01:15:02,120 --> 01:15:05,800 You know, I've written roles for myself to grow into gracefully, 1187 01:15:05,800 --> 01:15:08,960 but there is no growing into gracefully in the pop world. 1188 01:15:10,480 --> 01:15:13,000 Basically, the reason I'm so unruly in this business 1189 01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:15,880 is because I never wanted to be a human jukebox. 1190 01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:22,240 She never set out to be a popular artist. 1191 01:15:22,240 --> 01:15:24,560 This is the real key to understanding her. 1192 01:15:26,440 --> 01:15:30,520 # The moon shed light on my hopeless plight 1193 01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:35,440 # As the radio blared so bland 1194 01:15:35,440 --> 01:15:38,400 # Every disc a poker chip 1195 01:15:38,400 --> 01:15:43,320 # Every song just a one-night stand 1196 01:15:44,560 --> 01:15:48,480 # Formula music, girlie guile 1197 01:15:48,480 --> 01:15:53,240 # Genuine junk food for juveniles 1198 01:15:53,240 --> 01:15:57,080 # Up and down the dial 1199 01:15:57,080 --> 01:16:00,520 # Mercenary style... # 1200 01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:02,640 She never sold out. 1201 01:16:02,640 --> 01:16:06,200 She had the courage to really follow her muse, 1202 01:16:06,200 --> 01:16:09,200 to follow what came out of her, 1203 01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:11,880 no matter what the marketplace demanded. 1204 01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:15,600 I tried to train myself to be a realist. 1205 01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:18,080 I'm not cynical. To me, it's like, 1206 01:16:18,080 --> 01:16:20,520 "Can you get through this life with a good heart?" 1207 01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:22,040 And that's been my struggle. 1208 01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:24,160 You know, with all the injustice and everything 1209 01:16:24,160 --> 01:16:25,960 and the things that piss you off, you know, 1210 01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:28,160 is to try and get the heart to rebound 1211 01:16:28,160 --> 01:16:31,240 and come back and bloom again, you know? 1212 01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:40,120 Joan has always had a lot of guilt 1213 01:16:40,120 --> 01:16:43,360 surrounding the whole situation with her child 1214 01:16:43,360 --> 01:16:47,120 and this incredibly strong drive to find her. 1215 01:16:48,120 --> 01:16:53,840 I had the great fortune to see her in Vancouver, Canada, 1216 01:16:53,840 --> 01:16:57,840 when she was with her daughter for the first time. 1217 01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:02,840 She was so overjoyed, she was like a little kid. 1218 01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:07,920 Joni's face had changed. 1219 01:17:07,920 --> 01:17:10,560 # This is really something 1220 01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:13,520 # People will be envious 1221 01:17:13,520 --> 01:17:16,680 # But our roles aren't clear So we mustn't rush 1222 01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:19,400 # Still, we're burning brightly 1223 01:17:19,400 --> 01:17:22,240 # Clinging like fire to fuel 1224 01:17:22,240 --> 01:17:25,400 # I'm burning like a fool 1225 01:17:25,400 --> 01:17:27,200 # Stay in touch... # 1226 01:17:27,200 --> 01:17:30,680 We both were very excited about meeting. 1227 01:17:30,680 --> 01:17:33,600 I'm thinking, you know, "What if she doesn't like me? 1228 01:17:33,600 --> 01:17:34,920 "Probably she won't like me." 1229 01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:37,040 You know, "There's going to be issues here." 1230 01:17:38,040 --> 01:17:40,400 # Stay in touch... # 1231 01:17:42,600 --> 01:17:46,040 She arrived and I was upstairs and I was painting. 1232 01:17:46,040 --> 01:17:48,480 So I walked out on the balcony of the house 1233 01:17:48,480 --> 01:17:51,400 and I saw her kind of in the dark. 1234 01:17:51,400 --> 01:17:53,560 It was like Romeo and Juliet. 1235 01:17:53,560 --> 01:17:56,160 She had some paintbrushes in her hand, 1236 01:17:56,160 --> 01:18:01,360 and when we met at the front door in the kitchen with hugs, 1237 01:18:01,360 --> 01:18:05,040 it felt like I had gone away on a trip for a couple months 1238 01:18:05,040 --> 01:18:07,360 and I was coming home. 1239 01:18:07,360 --> 01:18:11,000 # During times like these, the wise or influential 1240 01:18:11,000 --> 01:18:14,160 # They can bear the imperfections... # 1241 01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:15,840 Joni doesn't look like a grandmother, 1242 01:18:15,840 --> 01:18:17,600 or act like a grandmother, 1243 01:18:17,600 --> 01:18:19,720 she's like a mother of the three of us. 1244 01:18:21,600 --> 01:18:25,960 # No doubt that's always been a tricky one for me 1245 01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:28,080 # So we should just surrender 1246 01:18:28,080 --> 01:18:30,400 # Let fate and duty shape us... # 1247 01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:32,960 It's like the master's class in love, 1248 01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:35,800 true altruistic love. 1249 01:18:35,800 --> 01:18:37,720 She is going through that now. 1250 01:18:37,720 --> 01:18:41,320 She's really exploring and finding her way through 1251 01:18:41,320 --> 01:18:45,160 a process of discovery that you can only experience 1252 01:18:45,160 --> 01:18:47,320 through your relationship with a child. 1253 01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:51,920 It was a healing thing. Yes, it was very cathartic. 1254 01:18:51,920 --> 01:18:53,280 It was coming full circle. 1255 01:18:55,800 --> 01:18:58,360 She was always truthful in her work, 1256 01:18:58,360 --> 01:19:02,280 and maybe the fact that she had not wanted to acknowledge 1257 01:19:02,280 --> 01:19:06,520 that she had a child publicly was the missing piece, 1258 01:19:06,520 --> 01:19:08,320 and with this piece complete, 1259 01:19:08,320 --> 01:19:10,400 not only was her family complete, 1260 01:19:10,400 --> 01:19:13,520 but in a weird way, her work was complete. 1261 01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:17,400 STRINGS PLAY 1262 01:19:17,400 --> 01:19:22,160 # Rows and flows of angel hair 1263 01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:29,160 # And ice-cream castles in the air 1264 01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:34,680 # And feather canyons everywhere 1265 01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:40,080 # Looked at clouds that way 1266 01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:49,840 # But now they only block the sun 1267 01:19:49,840 --> 01:19:56,000 # They rain and they snow on everyone 1268 01:19:56,000 --> 01:20:01,880 # So many things I would have done 1269 01:20:03,160 --> 01:20:07,360 # But clouds got in my way 1270 01:20:09,320 --> 01:20:15,960 # I've looked at clouds from both sides now 1271 01:20:15,960 --> 01:20:18,040 # From up and down 1272 01:20:18,040 --> 01:20:21,680 # And still somehow 1273 01:20:21,680 --> 01:20:28,760 # It's cloud illusions I recall 1274 01:20:28,760 --> 01:20:31,320 # I really don't know clouds 1275 01:20:35,880 --> 01:20:38,320 # At all... # 1276 01:20:38,320 --> 01:20:42,000 On her first album, there is the song Cactus Tree, 1277 01:20:42,000 --> 01:20:45,520 about choosing to leave the roads that were possible, 1278 01:20:45,520 --> 01:20:48,840 you know, college, marriage, motherhood, everything, 1279 01:20:48,840 --> 01:20:51,080 and go off on her own journey. 1280 01:20:53,680 --> 01:20:59,280 Years later, in Hejira, an album about leaving behind entanglements 1281 01:20:59,280 --> 01:21:01,680 and following the next horizon, 1282 01:21:01,680 --> 01:21:04,720 she at the end pulls into the Cactus Tree Motel 1283 01:21:04,720 --> 01:21:07,200 to wash off the dust of the road, 1284 01:21:07,200 --> 01:21:10,880 and you're very aware that for all of the changes, 1285 01:21:10,880 --> 01:21:12,600 superficial and real, 1286 01:21:12,600 --> 01:21:16,000 that she's gone through and her music has gone through 1287 01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:18,160 and her audience has gone through in that time, 1288 01:21:18,160 --> 01:21:21,400 this is still a continuation of that journey she started, 1289 01:21:21,400 --> 01:21:23,880 she is still writing her map as she drives. 1290 01:21:23,880 --> 01:21:26,920 # But something's gained 1291 01:21:26,920 --> 01:21:30,560 # In living every day 1292 01:21:31,960 --> 01:21:39,280 # I have looked at life from both sides now 1293 01:21:39,280 --> 01:21:45,600 # From win and lose and still somehow 1294 01:21:45,600 --> 01:21:50,120 # It's life's illusions I recall 1295 01:21:53,200 --> 01:21:55,720 # I really don't know life 1296 01:21:58,240 --> 01:22:01,760 # At all 1297 01:22:15,600 --> 01:22:22,680 # It's life's illusions that I recall 1298 01:22:26,120 --> 01:22:31,840 # I really don't know life 1299 01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:38,920 # I really don't know life at all. # 1300 01:22:45,920 --> 01:22:49,760 For me, it's been a very kind of subjective, 1301 01:22:49,760 --> 01:22:52,000 I guess you'd say, journey. 1302 01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:54,560 Subjective but hopefully universal. 1303 01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:57,920 That was always my optimism, that if I described my own changes 1304 01:22:57,920 --> 01:23:01,040 through whatever the decade was throwing at us, 1305 01:23:01,040 --> 01:23:02,720 that there were others like me, 1306 01:23:02,720 --> 01:23:04,720 and it turns out that there were. 1307 01:23:04,720 --> 01:23:09,120 BIRDSONG 1308 01:23:09,120 --> 01:23:14,520 ACOUSTIC GUITAR PLAYS 1309 01:23:14,520 --> 01:23:19,760 # They paved paradise, put up a parking lot 1310 01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:24,880 # With a pink hotel, a boutique and a swingin' hot spot 1311 01:23:25,920 --> 01:23:28,200 # Don't it always seem to go 1312 01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:31,400 # You don't know what you've got till it's gone? 1313 01:23:31,400 --> 01:23:34,800 # They paved paradise, put up a parking lot 1314 01:23:36,880 --> 01:23:40,000 # They paved paradise, put up a parking lot 1315 01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:43,880 HIGH VOICE: # They paved paradise 1316 01:23:43,880 --> 01:23:45,760 DEEP VOICE: # Put up a parking lot. # 1317 01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:47,520 CHUCKLES 1318 01:23:47,520 --> 01:23:54,880 CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 102430

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