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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:04,880 In September 2017, a young French nanny was tortured, 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:09,000 murdered and thrown on a garden bonfire. 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:12,160 The fire brigade turned up, one of them was putting the fire out 4 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:13,760 and stamping it out. 5 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:18,320 He realised that there was a body in the ashes. 6 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,640 'They cooked chicken on a barbecue nearby to try and hide the smell.' 7 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:27,720 Fingers, limbs, and part of a nose. 8 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,200 It was very grisly. 9 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,800 TRANSLATION: There are no words, it's monstrous. 10 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:39,240 She beat her with an electrical cord and she pushed and slapped her. 11 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:43,080 I'm going to kill you! OK? Be quick! 12 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:47,040 21-year-old Sophie Lionnet had also been interrogated and tortured, 13 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:53,480 whilst filmed by her killers Sabrina Kouider and Ouissem Medouni. 14 00:00:53,480 --> 00:00:56,440 What you were listening to was a quiet 15 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:02,080 and unassuming girl being harangued, threatened and intimidated. 16 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,080 It was a torture video. 17 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,840 Sophie had been subjected to what can only be 18 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,040 described as waterboarding. 19 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:13,680 She had four broken limbs and a broken jaw. 20 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:18,040 I can't believe what they done to her. She could have walked out. 21 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:19,960 I don't know why she was stuck there. 22 00:01:19,960 --> 00:01:24,960 She was trapped psychologically and physically. 23 00:01:24,960 --> 00:01:28,600 How did we not notice? It's unbelievable. 24 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,920 This is one of the most tragic cases that I've ever covered. 25 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,200 Southfields, a well-to-do suburb of London, 26 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,120 just next-door to Wimbledon. 27 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,440 It's a safe place where people move to bring up families. 28 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,000 We've lived here all our lives. 29 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:58,240 It's a very friendly place to live, very safe place to live. 30 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:01,640 People know each other because they stay a long time. 31 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:03,520 It's a unique part of London. 32 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:05,400 This feels like a village. 33 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,480 We call it the Southfields village. 34 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,920 Basically, you cannot not know a person. 35 00:02:11,920 --> 00:02:16,120 How about you guys? Are you sharing with him? 36 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,000 Good friends. 37 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:22,960 Me being in there for 14 years, I seen the whole world passing by. 38 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,720 We know each other, everybody knows mums, the nannies. 39 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,400 This is what Southfields is, family orientated. 40 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:33,800 But in September 2017, 41 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,720 a series of disturbing events unfolded in the Southfields. 42 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,000 They took place at the home of glamorous mother of two 43 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:46,480 Sabrina Kouider and her partner Ouissem, or Sam, Medouni. 44 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,960 What happened was so gruesome, so disturbing, that it 45 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,440 shocked residents to the core. 46 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,680 'The charred remains were discovered by firefighters.' 47 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:02,840 'They cooked chicken on a barbecue nearby to try and hide the smell.' 48 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:08,520 I saw smoke coming from the garden, it was directly on the street. 49 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:10,560 You couldn't not see it. 50 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,840 My husband went to the corner shop and as he passed the house, 51 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,040 he noticed the smoke. 52 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,280 He thought it was very close to the end of the house, 53 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:23,280 so he was alerted on a safety level. 54 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:27,200 He just looked through the gate and he noticed the gentleman 55 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,560 standing there, throwing sticks onto the fire 56 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,760 and thought, someone's there monitoring it, there's nothing more 57 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:36,440 that he can do, so he carried on. 58 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,960 The fire was in the garden of Kouider and Medouni's flat 59 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:43,080 on the corner of Pulborough and Wimbledon Park roads, 60 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:45,000 directly opposite the newsagent. 61 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:49,480 A couple of customers said that there is a fire on Pulborough Road. 62 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:51,120 Somebody's doing a barbecue, 63 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,200 or it's too close to the patio and there's smoke billowing. 64 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:59,000 One neighbour whose house is backed onto the garden was 65 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,520 so concerned about the fire, she rang 999. 66 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,240 I disappeared out the back for a while and when I came out, 67 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,320 it was carnage. 68 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,880 Nancy called me and said, "The fire brigade are here." 69 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:16,120 And I was passing by anyway, so I stopped and we were chatting. 70 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,040 As we were chatting, the police turned up. 71 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,480 The road has been sealed off. 72 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:26,200 There's about at least five or six police cars. Two fire engines. 73 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,400 Then, they put up the white tent, and they blocked off the road, 74 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:31,920 and we were thinking, "Oh, what's happening?" 75 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:37,200 Eventually, another unmarked van came, men in white suits got out 76 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:42,080 and that's when I realised that something is quite serious here. 77 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,320 We couldn't understand why there was the tent there, 78 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,720 why the police were there over a fire. It didn't make sense to us. 79 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:55,800 And then, we saw Sam being escorted out of the house with handcuffs. 80 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,880 The man who had been arrested by police was Sam Medouni, 81 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,320 partner of Sabrina Kouider. 82 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,760 As Medouni was driven away for questioning, forensic officers 83 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:11,200 arrived. It shocked the community, who couldn't understand 84 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,400 why they were there. 85 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:17,800 But then, forensic investigators carried out what looked like a body. 86 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,960 We saw a big red box, not coffin shaped, 87 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:26,040 but quite large coming out after the forensics had done their work. 88 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:29,920 There were lots of rumours going around. 89 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:31,720 We heard they had found a body. 90 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,280 Police later confirmed there were human remains in the fire, 91 00:05:36,280 --> 00:05:38,520 but the body was so badly burned, 92 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:42,280 they couldn't even identify the victim. 93 00:05:42,280 --> 00:05:45,960 I can't remember how we found out. I think it was probably about a week later, 94 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,200 when they identified the body. 95 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,680 We had worked it out by that point anyway. 96 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:55,000 I think most people knew quite quickly through the process of elimination who it was. 97 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,640 'Police have confirmed the body found in the garden of a property 98 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:03,600 'in Southfields was French nanny Sophie Lionnet.' 99 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:05,480 Neighbours had guessed correctly. 100 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,160 The charred remains in the bonfire were those of the 101 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:12,840 21-year-old nanny who worked for Sabrina Kouider and Sam Medouni. 102 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,960 When I had a reporter coming in to me straightaway 103 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:23,560 and saying, "Do you know so-and-so?" I was like, "Yes, I know so-and-so." 104 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:27,200 "And do you know she was murdered?" And I couldn't speak. 105 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:31,880 Not only had Sam Medouni been arrested, 106 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:35,640 but so had his partner, Sabrina Kouider. 107 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:39,240 Within 36 hours of the discovery of Sophie Lionnet's body 108 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,320 on the bonfire, both had been charged with murder. 109 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:46,760 It is definitely an astonishing thing to happen, 110 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:48,320 especially in Southfields. 111 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:55,560 The whole community was very taken aback and shocked. 112 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:57,880 Completely shocking. 113 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:01,200 We couldn't understand what was going on. It just seemed bizarre. 114 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,440 Really weird. 115 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,440 For months, Sophie had suffered appalling 116 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,520 abuse at the hands of her glamorous employer. 117 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:14,600 She actually started to cry and then I had to ask her what happened 118 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:18,600 and that point, she said Sabrina beat her. 119 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:20,920 Abuse that would end in a murder trial, 120 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,120 described by the judge as stranger than fiction. 121 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:28,800 I've been a reporter for 20 years and this is the most bizarre 122 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,440 and also, one of the most tragic cases. 123 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:45,000 On 20th September 2017, firemen discovered 124 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:49,240 a body on a bonfire in a suburban garden in South London. 125 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,760 A man and woman have been arrested on suspicion of murder after 126 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,880 a body was found in a garden in Southfields. 127 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,200 It soon became clear that the remains were those 128 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,920 of Sophie Lionnet, a 21-year-old nanny 129 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:05,120 working for mother of two Sabrina Kouider and her partner, 130 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:06,960 Ouissem, or Sam, Medouni. 131 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,160 Kouider and Medouni had lived in the rented ground floor 132 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,880 flat in Southfields since 2013. 133 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:23,520 They appeared to be a successful and glamorous young couple. 134 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:27,760 Kouider was a fashion designer, Medouni a financial analyst. 135 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:34,520 Local chip shop owner Michael Croner immediately liked them. 136 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:36,080 Fish and chips? 137 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:41,280 We call him Sam, that was the name he actually introduced himself, 138 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:43,360 saying, "I'm Sam." 139 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:47,400 And then, he introduced me to Sabrina. 140 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:52,320 She was very polite, soft-spoken. She was very glamorous. 141 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,080 Every time I see her, she's well-dressed. 142 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:59,080 But Kouider had a dark side, she was erratic, volatile, 143 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:01,600 and prone to mood swings, 144 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:05,520 and had a delusional obsession with her celebrity ex-boyfriend 145 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,560 Mark Walton, founding member of the Irish boyband Boyzone. 146 00:09:09,560 --> 00:09:14,440 Walton and Kouider had a passionate and turbulent relationship. 147 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,320 They separated in 2013, 148 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:20,200 but Kouider became obsessed with and fixated by him. 149 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,440 It goes back about five years, 150 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:28,440 when Sabrina Kouider stopped going out with Mark Walton. 151 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:33,880 She appeared to him to be a volatile character, prone to mood swings, 152 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:38,600 but she also had something of a hold over him. 153 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:42,520 She was prone to outbursts, to shouting at random 154 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:47,960 people in the street and acting in a strange and volatile manner. 155 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:52,480 They had an acrimonious split, she left and he didn't know why. 156 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:59,600 At the murder trial, it emerged that Mark Walton had helped Kouider 157 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:04,000 financially by paying the first few months' rent on her Southfields 158 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,320 flat, but when he stopped supporting her, Kouider became enraged. 159 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,560 When the relationship between Kouider and Mark Walton broke down, 160 00:10:13,560 --> 00:10:15,400 I think that was the catalyst 161 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,440 for all of the things that happened subsequently. 162 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:20,640 She didn't take the breakdown well. 163 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:22,840 She wouldn't have taken the breakdown well. 164 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:24,760 It's the kind of person that she is. 165 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:30,360 And she became fixated on either getting him back, getting control 166 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:37,000 back over him, or, if she couldn't do that, getting revenge. 167 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:38,960 Not long after the break-up, 168 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,680 Kouider started making serious allegations about Walton. 169 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,360 The court heard she claimed he was stalking her, 170 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:47,800 that he'd harmed her family. 171 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,080 All the allegations she made about him were totally untrue. 172 00:10:54,000 --> 00:11:00,280 Sabrina Kouider got it in her head that she was stalking her, she said 173 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:07,320 that he was controlling her with black magic and all sorts of things. 174 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,560 So the background to the murder goes back a long, long way. 175 00:11:11,560 --> 00:11:15,720 Well before they even met Sophie Lionnet. 176 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:21,000 It was heard in court that Kouider made more than 20 calls to police 177 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,120 and social services about Mark Walton. 178 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:28,320 In every case, the police concluded the allegations were not true, 179 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,160 that Kouider was a fantasist. 180 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,760 She even receive the police caution for posting defamatory 181 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:36,240 statements about him online. 182 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,440 No-one knows why Kouider developed her obsession. 183 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,840 It would appeal that Kouider has certainly developed 184 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:48,560 a range of delusional thinking. 185 00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:50,800 She certainly viewed the world in a different way, 186 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,320 her approach to relationships was very different. 187 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,560 It could be very impactful 188 00:11:55,560 --> 00:11:58,800 in significant life events for her that might have changed her 189 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:03,080 approach to relationships, affected her self-identity and I think it's 190 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:07,800 more useful to think of Kouider from that trauma-informed perspective. 191 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,040 Kouider also had a dysfunctional relationship with 192 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,520 Sam Medouni, whom she had known since childhood. 193 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:15,240 And although he lived at her flat, 194 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,040 he would often disappear for months at a time. 195 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,120 They did seem odd. 196 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,680 The whole setup, working out who was related to whom, 197 00:12:23,680 --> 00:12:25,040 it was all a bit strange. 198 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,800 She was hardly ever there, very glamorous. 199 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:33,400 He always wore a flat cap and looked very shabby. 200 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,640 You wouldn't put them together as a couple at all. 201 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,080 No-one really seemed to know them, as far as I was concerned. 202 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:42,840 They weren't sociable. No. 203 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,040 They didn't come to street parties, 204 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,760 they didn't sort of chat or introduce themselves. 205 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,240 They didn't want to be part of the community, which is quite 206 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,000 an unusual thing around here. 207 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,800 They didn't want to partake in anything. 208 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:58,520 Although the couple were thought somewhat strange by neighbours, 209 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,880 it was Kouider's behaviour in particular that stood out. 210 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,360 Sunny Patel remembers her causing a scene in his shop, following 211 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,440 a disagreement over a mobile phone voucher. 212 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:13,480 She was quite volatile and vocal in her mannerisms with this dispute. 213 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,200 It was always probably her way, or no way. 214 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:22,480 She called the police and two policewomen turned up, one of them 215 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:26,320 took Sabrina outside because she hadn't calmed down and then the 216 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,200 policewoman said to Sabrina, "Look, this gentleman hasn't done anything 217 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,800 "wrong, but he is making an effort 218 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,840 "to assist you and you're not appreciating that." 219 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:41,240 By December, a deluded and obsessed Kouider was about to welcome 220 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,240 a naive young nanny from France into her family. 221 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:51,200 Sophie Lionnet grew up in the village of Paron, in rural France. 222 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:55,200 It's a couple of hours' drive south of Paris. 223 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,320 She lived there with her mother and stepfather. 224 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:02,720 TRANSLATION: Sophie is a nice girl, always smiling, who loves life 225 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,720 and had a joy of living. 226 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,200 She was shy, yes. 227 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,920 We spoke very little, it was always necessary to tear 228 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:16,680 the words from her mouth, so that she could speak with us. 229 00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:21,640 Sometimes, she chatted well with us, but she was a very shy girl. 230 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,560 Sophie studied early years child education at college. 231 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:35,000 Because she loved children and children always came to her, 232 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,560 so she chose to do this job. 233 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:43,080 Sophie found it difficult to get a childcare job locally, 234 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,560 so when a friend showed her an advert for a French-speaking 235 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,960 nanny to work with a family in London, she decided to apply. 236 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,520 TRANSLATION: She had never left France. 237 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:57,720 Her goal was not to go abroad to work, 238 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:01,280 but this opportunity would open doors for her to find work. 239 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,080 So she said to herself, that since I cannot get 240 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:09,320 work in France, I'm going to England because it would be temporary. 241 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:15,800 It would give her experience, which would help her find work in France. 242 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,480 Plus it would improve her English there. 243 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:31,320 In January 2016, just after her 20th birthday, she came to London 244 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,840 and started working for Kouider full time as her nanny. 245 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:40,120 When Sophie first arrived, obviously I didn't know who she was. 246 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,840 I can remember when she first asked for cigarettes, 247 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:49,200 I had to ask for her ID because she looked quite well under 18. 248 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:54,920 I think she was very, very shy and timid. 249 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,480 She was quite petite. 250 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,080 I don't think she had a social life at all. 251 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,360 I have never seen Sophie with anyone. 252 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:06,400 There are so many nannies round in Southfields, they are very happy, 253 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:10,080 they meet up on weekends, they even come to my restaurant. 254 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,600 They bring the kids. They're all grouped up. 255 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:17,600 They have a social life as well. But Sophie never had that. 256 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:21,840 From day one I knew her, she was by herself, or with the family. 257 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:27,920 We assumed she was just part of the family, just an aunt or a cousin, 258 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,240 a relative because she was with the children all the time. 259 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:36,880 The amount of hours, the time, the effort, the patience she had, 260 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,840 you could not pay someone to do what she did. 261 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:43,120 So it was a natural assumption that she was a member of the family. 262 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,400 Not the hired au pair. 263 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:50,720 For the first year or so, 264 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:54,480 no-one outside the family took much notice of Sophie. 265 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:58,240 As this home video filmed in the Southfields flat shows, 266 00:16:58,240 --> 00:16:59,680 she seemed happy. 267 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,440 She spoke to the children, she could speak to them easily, 268 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:07,680 but with anyone else, she just seemed to be very withdrawn. 269 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:12,120 But Sophie did open up to Kouider's friend, Jolanta. 270 00:17:12,120 --> 00:17:16,840 It was my dream to learn French and she offered for me 271 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:18,720 to help me with that. 272 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,920 I had a good chance to speak with Sophie and she told me 273 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:28,400 that she came to London to improve her English skills. 274 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:32,240 And she was planning September to come back to France 275 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,400 and to study something related with cinema. 276 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,120 It was her wish. 277 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:41,720 In the summer of 2017, 278 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,440 after Sophie had been with the family for 18 months, Kouider's 279 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:50,160 obsession with Mark Walton took another bizarre and twisted turn. 280 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,560 By now, he was living in Los Angeles and totally out of reach, 281 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,120 so Kouider transferred some of rage and frustration 282 00:17:59,120 --> 00:18:00,560 onto her young nanny. 283 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:04,080 She exerted more control over her, stopping her from eating. 284 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:06,760 Whenever she comes, I offer her food. 285 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,960 She only has a portion of chips and a drink. 286 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:12,960 And she eats it so fast, the way she eats, 287 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,640 either she's not fed, or she's rushing back to work. 288 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,120 She was pulling down, you can see. 289 00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:23,440 I used to see her with the same tops, same jeans, 290 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,840 and she never brushes her hair. 291 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:29,920 Kouider, who was now broke, didn't pay Sophie's wages. 292 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,360 When Sophie was offered part-time work by Jolanta to help out, 293 00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:36,480 Kouider stopped all contact between them. 294 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:41,640 I was just knocking to the door and Sam opened the door and I asked 295 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:47,280 him or Sabrina is at home and he told me Sabrina is not at home. And 296 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,880 after that I heard her voice and I said, "Why are you lying 297 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,680 "to me? She is at home." 298 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,600 I think that Sophie was controlled by Sabrina. 299 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,560 She couldn't decide by herself where she can go 300 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:07,200 and I haven't even noticed that she had her own free time. 301 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:12,280 Not only was Kouider starving and isolating Sophie, 302 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:16,040 she was stopping her going home to France, even to visit her mother. 303 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,120 I had to ask Sophie a couple times, "How are you?" 304 00:19:22,120 --> 00:19:25,800 And I can feel she had eyes very teary and suddenly, she started to 305 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:31,480 tell me, "My mum is not well, I need to go and see my mum." 306 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:38,040 I said, "If it is that, why don't you fly to France, and I can even 307 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,480 "buy you a ticket? When you are paid you can give me the money." 308 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,680 I offered that to her. 309 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:47,880 She didn't give me a positive answer, neither yes or neither no. 310 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:51,200 She was just nodding her head. 311 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,480 And I didn't want to push her on things. 312 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,920 Back in France, Sophie's mother had received texts and Facebook messages 313 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:05,120 from her daughter, saying she was unhappy and wanted to come home. 314 00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:06,960 TRANSLATION: She sent me 315 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:11,760 a message saying she needed a little bit of money to finance her return. 316 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:15,520 So I deposited the money in her account as soon as I got my pay, 317 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,400 so she could buy her ticket to return. 318 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:24,440 Sophie's mother then received a two unexpected phone calls from 319 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,520 Kouider, in which she made some strange allegations 320 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:29,440 about her daughter. 321 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,680 Sabrina had told me she was keeping Sophie 322 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:37,360 because there were disagreements and problems she wanted to solve. 323 00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:42,120 I said to Sabrina, "Listen, do your best to make her come home." 324 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:50,680 The situation between Kouider and Sophie was getting worse. 325 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,640 Kouider was making increasingly wild allegations about Sophie, 326 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,080 accusing her of stealing a diamond ring 327 00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:58,880 and of plotting against the family. 328 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:06,400 She actually started to cry and then I had to ask her, "What happened?" 329 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:10,360 At that point, she said Sabrina beat her. 330 00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:14,320 So I asked why, which I didn't want to, but I had to ask her why 331 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:16,880 and she said the way she said it, 332 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:21,120 "The butter fell off and Sabrina beat me." 333 00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:26,800 All of this was raising alarms, you know, something is not right. 334 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:31,400 I said, "Sophie, if you want, I'll find you a job." 335 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:35,200 I even spoke to a friend of mine and he said send her immediately, 336 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:36,640 I can sort something out. 337 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:43,080 A couple of days after Michael made this offer of help, Kouider 338 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,440 stormed into the chip top, dragging a terrified Sophie with her. 339 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,560 I was just setting at my table chairs outside 340 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:54,080 and she started to scream at me, very loud. 341 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,600 And she didn't like Sophie speak and she was screaming at Sophie 342 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,160 in French, which I didn't understand nothing. 343 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,080 And then I knew this has got nothing to do with me. 344 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:10,080 So I said, "Sabrina, you have got to excuse me, I've got to go back and open my shop." 345 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,280 And I left them there and I walked away. 346 00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:16,960 Michael suspected something was wrong. 347 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,680 But he could never in his wildest dreams imagine what Kouider 348 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,480 and Medouni were doing to Sophie behind closed doors. 349 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:30,440 Imagine yourself every day in a cage like an animal. 350 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,760 Or what they were planning to do with her next. 351 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:49,120 In September 2017, the body of French nanny Sophie Lionnet 352 00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:53,280 was found burning on a bonfire in south London. 353 00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:00,240 Mother of two Sabrina Kouider and her partner Ouissem Medouni 354 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:04,200 were arrested immediately and taken into police custody. 355 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,680 Six months later, their trial began at the Old Bailey, with both 356 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:12,880 defendants facing charges of murder. 357 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,880 The first time I saw Sabrina Kouider, I thought 358 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:23,320 she was very beautiful and very glamorous. 359 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:27,040 But also quite troubled. She looked indignant. 360 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,600 She looked at me, shook her head at me. 361 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,240 I think she almost enjoyed the interest in her. 362 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,200 I just thought, how dare you not be full of guilt or remorse 363 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,200 for what you've done? 364 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,480 Saying, "Tell them I didn't do it, I didn't murder anyone." 365 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:42,280 It was quite fraught. 366 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:47,080 We knew right then that she was going to be a difficult defendant. 367 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,800 My impression of Ouissem Medouni was that he was very much 368 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:53,320 the quieter one. 369 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,280 Silent, brooding even. A meek figure in the dock. 370 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,640 TRANSLATION: It was the first time I saw them. It hurt me 371 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,080 because the had taken my daughter. 372 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,880 They had broken everyone's heart 373 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,440 and all the hurt they had done to Sophie, I could not accept. 374 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,520 While both Kouider and Medouni admitted to perverting the course 375 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:27,080 of justice by burning Sophie's body, they both denied murder. 376 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,360 Both defendants had essentially the same defence, that the 377 00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:34,800 other person did it. They both argued that they were asleep, 378 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,240 whilst the other person had carried out the murder. 379 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,080 While no-one knew exactly what had happened to cause Sophie's 380 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:51,440 death, the prosecution was to reveal a key piece of evidence, which 381 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,160 clearly showed the extreme cruelty she'd been subjected 382 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,560 to behind closed doors. 383 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,960 In the weeks before her death, Sophie had been 384 00:24:59,960 --> 00:25:04,040 the victim of a series of brutal and violent interrogations. 385 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,600 Unbelievably, these sessions were recorded by Kouider 386 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,880 and Medouni on a mobile phone. 387 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:15,240 I will not leave you alone until you tell me the truth. 388 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,040 Is this clear? Do you understand? 389 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:22,520 These recorded interrogations were all centred around Kouider's 390 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:26,240 obsession with her ex-boyfriend, Mark Walton. 391 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,400 Kouider obviously couldn't get to Mark Walton, 392 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,280 because by then he was living in Los Angeles. 393 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:42,680 And she diverted all her anger and anxieties 394 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,280 and obsession on to Sophie. 395 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:51,120 And she got it into her head that Sophie Lionnet was working with 396 00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:55,600 Mark Walton to spy on her and to wreck her life. 397 00:25:55,600 --> 00:26:00,040 She concocted in her head a bizarre idea that there was a plot against 398 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:07,240 her and Medouni and so over time she began to question Sophie for many, 399 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:13,880 many hours on end about what exactly she thought had been going on. 400 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,200 Extracts of these interrogation tapes 401 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,120 were played to a shocked court. 402 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:24,400 You will not go back to France until you have told me the truth. 403 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:29,880 I'm going to spoil your life, as you have spoiled mine! 404 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:36,560 She started coming out with all these accusations about Sophie 405 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:41,760 meeting Mark Walton secretly and plotting against her. 406 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,880 What you were listening to was a quiet 407 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:50,440 and unassuming girl being harangued, threatened, and intimidated. 408 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,360 They said that she should be locked up for 40 years. 409 00:26:54,360 --> 00:27:00,120 She was like a murderer... All of this was to make her confess. 410 00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:03,040 Whether you don't speak or you don't speak at your trial, 411 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,520 you will do so. You will be jailed! 412 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:12,000 Kouider it was the one who was instigating this whole thing 413 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,240 and she was the one that was keeping control. That's very unusual. 414 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:21,680 In 95% of cases, it will be a man, especially in this type of case. 415 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,280 You better know that we will not let you go back 416 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:30,120 until we know the whole, whole truth, nothing but the truth! 417 00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:34,760 I think Medouni probably would have been willing to do anything for her. 418 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:39,200 It's not even a case really of whether he believed what she was 419 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,240 saying, it's that he believed 420 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,760 he wanted to do something to please her. 421 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,360 The tapes contained evidence not only of verbal abuse 422 00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:50,960 but violence which had become more and more extreme. 423 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:55,560 I think there were about eight and a half hours of interrogations 424 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,200 in the weeks leading up to Sophie's death, 425 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,800 and they got progressively worse. 426 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,880 There was evidence that Sabrina Kouider beat Sophie at least 427 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:10,160 three times, she beat her with an electrical cord and she pushed 428 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,320 and slapped her. 429 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,680 I'm going to kill you! OK? Be quick! 430 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:21,440 You can hear on the recordings, noises that sound like slaps, 431 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:27,360 although Sabrina said that they weren't her slapping Sophie. 432 00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:32,000 But it did certainly sound like she was being physically abused. 433 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,680 Think carefully about 40 years in prison. 434 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:36,880 Close your eyes for one minute, 435 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:42,120 imagine yourself every day in a cage like an animal! 436 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:47,720 I couldn't sit through all of it because it was really too much. 437 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,720 Sophie's mother particularly struggled to contain her 438 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:56,000 emotions and at one point during this harrowing footage, 439 00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:00,680 she broke down in tears and had to leave the room. 440 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,720 TRANSLATION: There are no words. 441 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,920 It is monstrous, it's moral harassment, 442 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,080 what they did. 443 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:11,760 I cannot stand it. 444 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,520 They destroyed the family. 445 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,440 They destroyed our life. 446 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,840 They hurt my daughter. 447 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,240 There really are no words to express how I feel. 448 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:32,640 On the 18th of September, after five weeks of interrogation, 449 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,600 Kouider and Medouni made a video recording of Sophie, as 450 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,760 they attempted to get her to confess to working with Mark Walton. 451 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,240 This is the last image of Sophie alive, taken from that recording. 452 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:54,400 They ground her down so much that, in the hours before her death, they 453 00:29:54,400 --> 00:30:01,040 filmed her actually confessing to colluding with Mark Walton. 454 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,880 It was clearly, completely untrue. 455 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:08,440 It was a figment of Sabrina Kouider's imagination. 456 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:14,440 The worst part was seeing the image of Sophie Lionnet 457 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:19,760 after everything that had been done to her. 458 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:25,120 She looked emaciated, she looked completely broken. 459 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,640 When Sophie's body was discovered, it was 460 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,880 so badly burned it was impossible to know exactly how she died. 461 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,280 Although, it was clear from the postmortem that she had been 462 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,520 severely assaulted. 463 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:44,040 Sabrina Kouider said that she accepted that she'd pushed 464 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:51,120 Sophie around, but she denied being very violent towards her. 465 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:56,480 But Sophie had suffered four broken ribs 466 00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:01,880 and a cracked sternum three days before her death 467 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:07,880 and on the night of her death, she had a broken jaw. 468 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,840 Kouider and Medouni weren't shying away from the fact that they 469 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:13,760 had put this young girl 470 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,280 through horrendous questioning for many, many hours. 471 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,640 Their case was that each of them 472 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,120 denied the murder that had taken place. 473 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,920 Sabrina said that it was all Medouni 474 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:33,200 and he had become absolutely enraged, that he got a pan of water 475 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:39,680 and a towel and was torturing her, demanding to know the truth. 476 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,200 Sophie had been held in the bath 477 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:49,920 and subjected to what can only be described as waterboarding. 478 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:54,760 Sabrina woke up in the night to find Sophie dead and said, 479 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:56,480 "What have you done?" 480 00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:02,120 But Medouni said the complete opposite and said that he was asleep 481 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,360 when all this happened. 482 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:09,040 But crucially, the prosecution produced a witness that contradicted 483 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,360 both these stories. 484 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:16,960 One of the key pieces of evidence in the trial was from a third party, 485 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:21,480 a witness in the house, who had heard both Sabrina 486 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:25,080 and Sam in the bathroom with Sophie, 487 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,640 saying, "Breathe! Breathe!" 488 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,920 That was a critical piece of evidence because neither one 489 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,480 of the defendants was really telling the truth. 490 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,840 Also central to the prosecution's case was the fact that the 491 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,360 authorities weren't alerted to Sophie's death. 492 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,080 We know at some point they decided rather than to call the police or 493 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,960 an ambulance, to dispose of her body. 494 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:56,400 They built a bonfire in the garden by their French doors, 495 00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:02,720 by the kitchen and put Sophie's body into a suitcase and lit the fire. 496 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:09,400 One of the neighbours called 999 and alerted the fire brigade to 497 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,800 a fire that was potentially out of control. 498 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,880 When the firefighters arrived, 499 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:20,160 they found Medouni was at the scene, apparently in control of the fire. 500 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:22,840 They insisted on putting the fire out 501 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,240 because they were concerned that it was a bit too close to the doors. 502 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,440 As one of them was putting the fire out, and stamping it out, 503 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,800 he realised that there was a body in the ashes. 504 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:40,720 I think he described seeing fingers, and limbs, and part of a nose. 505 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,720 It was very grisly. 506 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,920 He turned to his colleague and said, "There's a body in the bonfire." 507 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,920 Medouni, still trying to get away with it at that stage, 508 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,200 trying to explain away the body as the carcass of a sheep that 509 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,400 he'd bought at the market. 510 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,400 But it would have been obvious to the firefighters 511 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:07,120 when they started looking through the grisly remains that this 512 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,040 was not a sheep we were looking at. 513 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,640 It's clear from the evidence that we heard that 514 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,080 had the neighbour not alerted the authorities, 515 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,720 Kouider and Medouni could have got away with murder. 516 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:25,080 The gruesome evidence about the broken and despairing nanny being 517 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:29,080 beaten and tortured to death were difficult for anyone to sit through. 518 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,320 But for Sophie's mother, it was unbearable. 519 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,840 TRANSLATION: I do not understand why they took to Sophie, she who 520 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,920 was so sweet, so charming... 521 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,720 I mean, she's a young woman beginning her adult life. 522 00:34:43,720 --> 00:34:47,960 It is a dream of all parents to see their children blossom in life. 523 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,720 There are no words to understand what they did. 524 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:58,760 Everybody has been saying that Sophie was very naive and it was 525 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,600 easy to manipulate her and I think that is true, but if we think that 526 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:07,960 the only people who get caught up in coercive control are those people 527 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:12,360 who we see as easy to manipulate, we would be making a big mistake. 528 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:17,200 Sophie behaved actually in the way that many, many people behave 529 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,880 when they are being controlled. 530 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,760 At the Old Bailey, after a gruelling 43 day trial, 531 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,400 the jury retired to decide if there was enough evidence to 532 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,920 convict Kouider and Medouni of murder. 533 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:36,880 But even now, neither defendant appeared to show any remorse. 534 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:46,240 Really, all that mattered to Medouni was Medouni and Kouider. 535 00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:48,480 And no-one else counted. 536 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:53,360 And I think Sabrina was so wrapped up in herself and her own world 537 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:58,200 that Sophie really didn't matter and even throughout all 538 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:02,000 their evidence, in everything that they said to the jury, they never 539 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:06,800 once expressed any regret or sadness 540 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,640 that Sophie had lost her life. 541 00:36:19,570 --> 00:36:23,570 21-year-old French nanny Sophie Lionnet was murdered after 542 00:36:23,570 --> 00:36:27,290 being beaten and tortured by mother of two Sabrina Kouider 543 00:36:27,290 --> 00:36:29,410 and her partner, Ouissem Medouni. 544 00:36:30,890 --> 00:36:34,490 After a gruelling murder trial, where each defendant blamed the 545 00:36:34,490 --> 00:36:36,330 other for her death, 546 00:36:36,330 --> 00:36:39,530 the jury retired to consider the disturbing evidence. 547 00:36:40,970 --> 00:36:44,170 We had all been waiting for days 548 00:36:44,170 --> 00:36:48,410 for the jury to come back with their verdict. 549 00:36:48,410 --> 00:36:50,610 It was a full court. 550 00:36:50,610 --> 00:36:55,770 We were very conscious that Sophie's family were very nearby. 551 00:36:55,770 --> 00:36:58,330 We were all rather on tenterhooks. 552 00:36:59,530 --> 00:37:04,850 After 30 hours of deliberations, the jury returned their verdict. 553 00:37:04,850 --> 00:37:09,810 When the verdict came in, Medouni just hung his head. 554 00:37:09,810 --> 00:37:14,730 Both Ouissem Medouni and Sabrina Kouider were found guilty of murder. 555 00:37:14,730 --> 00:37:18,570 Sabrina just started crying. 556 00:37:18,570 --> 00:37:24,770 Sophie's mother, Catherine Devallonne, started crying as well. 557 00:37:27,050 --> 00:37:32,010 TRANSLATION: It's inhuman, these acts of barbarism. 558 00:37:32,010 --> 00:37:35,490 They never said a single word of truth, it was all lies 559 00:37:35,490 --> 00:37:37,650 and contradictions. 560 00:37:37,650 --> 00:37:40,010 They never looked at me once, 561 00:37:40,010 --> 00:37:43,690 or apologised for the harm they had done to Sophie. 562 00:37:43,690 --> 00:37:47,930 I do not understand what happened in their heads to get there. 563 00:37:54,250 --> 00:37:58,210 Like Sophie's mother, many struggled to understand what had driven 564 00:37:58,210 --> 00:38:01,850 Kouider and Medouni to such unbelievable cruelty. 565 00:38:02,930 --> 00:38:05,650 Mr Dee Anand is a forensic psychologist, 566 00:38:05,650 --> 00:38:09,450 specialising in understanding offender behaviour. 567 00:38:09,450 --> 00:38:12,690 The intensity of the relationship between Medouni 568 00:38:12,690 --> 00:38:15,770 and Kouider is of vital interest in this case. 569 00:38:15,770 --> 00:38:19,330 It's certainly the case that Kouider have this delusional 570 00:38:19,330 --> 00:38:22,850 belief about Mark Walton and Sophie's involvement. 571 00:38:22,850 --> 00:38:27,210 Medouni has bought into this. Whether he's bought into this as a 572 00:38:27,210 --> 00:38:31,130 form of delusional transfer or whether he did this as a result of 573 00:38:31,130 --> 00:38:35,090 dependency on his relationship with Kouider is in question. 574 00:38:35,090 --> 00:38:38,690 Kouider was the dominant person in the relationship, 575 00:38:38,690 --> 00:38:42,210 but Medouni was there during most of the recordings 576 00:38:42,210 --> 00:38:48,010 and chimed in occasionally to ask his own questions. 577 00:38:48,010 --> 00:38:51,250 So, he was part and parcel of what Kouider was doing 578 00:38:51,250 --> 00:38:55,130 and what she believed Sophie had done to her. 579 00:38:55,130 --> 00:38:58,650 When they were interrogating Sophie, they were seeking to support 580 00:38:58,650 --> 00:39:01,090 their own delusional way of thinking. 581 00:39:01,090 --> 00:39:05,490 They were encouraging Sophie to confirm the delusions they had. 582 00:39:05,490 --> 00:39:10,810 Sophie was quite vulnerable because she had no support network here. 583 00:39:10,810 --> 00:39:13,010 She had nobody to go to. 584 00:39:13,010 --> 00:39:16,530 So, she was a perfect person for Kouider to manipulate. 585 00:39:16,530 --> 00:39:19,690 I think Kouider was so convinced by her delusions 586 00:39:19,690 --> 00:39:21,770 and Medouni also buying into this 587 00:39:21,770 --> 00:39:24,410 was convinced that these acts had occurred, 588 00:39:24,410 --> 00:39:28,370 that there was so little Sophie could've done to appease them. 589 00:39:28,370 --> 00:39:32,130 Now, whether she was murdered because the torture got out of hand, 590 00:39:32,130 --> 00:39:35,890 or whether it was a deliberate, premeditated act is only something 591 00:39:35,890 --> 00:39:39,490 that Kouider and Medouni themselves would know. 592 00:39:39,490 --> 00:39:41,690 Sophie was never kept under lock 593 00:39:41,690 --> 00:39:45,130 and key, but with the full extent of the torture she'd suffered now 594 00:39:45,130 --> 00:39:49,090 revealed, one question remains, why hadn't she left? 595 00:39:49,090 --> 00:39:54,090 She could have walked out, I don't know why she was stuck there. 596 00:39:54,090 --> 00:39:57,210 She can come on to the street and tell help, 597 00:39:57,210 --> 00:40:01,010 people would have helped her. People might often ask the question 598 00:40:01,010 --> 00:40:04,690 when they hear of a domestically abusive relationship, 599 00:40:04,690 --> 00:40:06,250 why hasn't that person left? 600 00:40:06,250 --> 00:40:09,370 I'm sure some might be asking that question of Sophie. 601 00:40:09,370 --> 00:40:12,650 We have to understand she would have felt trapped, both 602 00:40:12,650 --> 00:40:14,970 psychologically and physically. 603 00:40:14,970 --> 00:40:18,450 Her emotions would not have allowed her or permitted her to feel 604 00:40:18,450 --> 00:40:21,690 that she had the strength of character to leave that household. 605 00:40:22,770 --> 00:40:26,570 The things that Kouider had been threatening her with, 606 00:40:26,570 --> 00:40:28,770 Sophie probably thought would happen. 607 00:40:28,770 --> 00:40:33,010 She had been told she was a thief, she was a sexual abuser, 608 00:40:33,010 --> 00:40:35,930 that she was working in cahoots with somebody else, 609 00:40:35,930 --> 00:40:38,370 she would have been terrified that had 610 00:40:38,370 --> 00:40:41,210 she even got to the airport, she would have been arrested. 611 00:40:44,730 --> 00:40:48,730 Despite this, there is a sense of collective guilt in Southfields. 612 00:40:54,890 --> 00:40:58,610 How did we not notice? It's unbelievable. 613 00:40:58,610 --> 00:41:02,250 We would never have believed something like that could happen. 614 00:41:02,250 --> 00:41:05,810 It's so incomprehensible to think that that happens. 615 00:41:05,810 --> 00:41:08,850 Never mind so close to you. You just don't expect it. 616 00:41:10,890 --> 00:41:15,170 We feel really guilty, that we didn't notice what was going on. 617 00:41:15,170 --> 00:41:18,010 She was such a lovely girl and it's just a horrible, horrible thing 618 00:41:18,010 --> 00:41:21,530 to have happened right in front of our eyes. 619 00:41:21,530 --> 00:41:25,970 I feel guilty because we just wish we could have done something, 620 00:41:25,970 --> 00:41:31,330 she wanted to go back to France and she only needed £20, or £25. 621 00:41:31,330 --> 00:41:33,570 We would have given that to her. 622 00:41:35,450 --> 00:41:38,490 I feel bad, I should have gone to the next level. 623 00:41:39,730 --> 00:41:45,330 Either made a complaint... But that period was too short. 624 00:41:45,330 --> 00:41:48,090 When that happened, I think it's the week I saw her. 625 00:41:48,090 --> 00:41:49,450 After that, I never saw her. 626 00:41:50,890 --> 00:41:54,730 Nobody thinks that this kind of thing is going on on their doorstep 627 00:41:54,730 --> 00:41:58,290 and that's one of the things that helps abusers 628 00:41:58,290 --> 00:42:01,210 and controlling people to do what they do. 629 00:42:01,210 --> 00:42:03,530 It's because we all stand around on the outside, 630 00:42:03,530 --> 00:42:06,330 thinking, well, it can't be that bad. 631 00:42:07,730 --> 00:42:10,810 It's knocked our community, it really has. 632 00:42:10,810 --> 00:42:12,650 We're completely devastated by it. 633 00:42:14,050 --> 00:42:15,650 And it won't be forgotten. 634 00:42:18,290 --> 00:42:21,210 When you know you can help somebody... 635 00:42:30,010 --> 00:42:33,010 Sophie's mother hopes her daughter's death will 636 00:42:33,010 --> 00:42:36,770 serve as a warning to other young nannies looking for work abroad. 637 00:42:36,770 --> 00:42:40,570 TRANSLATION: I advise that parents go with her children to see 638 00:42:40,570 --> 00:42:42,890 the house and to meet the employers. 639 00:42:44,090 --> 00:42:49,050 If there is a problem, bring your children home, as soon as possible. 640 00:42:49,050 --> 00:42:51,770 I'm a mother of two kids. 641 00:42:51,770 --> 00:42:55,730 I think everyone has to be careful. 642 00:42:55,730 --> 00:42:58,090 She was a bright person. 643 00:42:58,090 --> 00:43:03,290 And it's so sad that in such a young age, she needed to finish her life. 644 00:43:08,050 --> 00:43:11,850 More than two years after arriving to work in the UK as a nanny, 645 00:43:11,850 --> 00:43:13,770 Sophie was finally returned home. 646 00:43:15,170 --> 00:43:19,610 On the 6th of June 2018, she was laid to rest in France. 647 00:43:22,250 --> 00:43:26,730 TRANSLATION: The murder of Sophie destroyed everything around us. 648 00:43:26,730 --> 00:43:31,090 People don't understand. The family is very shocked. 649 00:43:31,090 --> 00:43:34,770 Her dad is shocked. Her big sister too. 650 00:43:34,770 --> 00:43:37,490 Her brother, who has just turned eight. 651 00:43:37,490 --> 00:43:41,130 He wanted to come with me to England, to tell them 652 00:43:41,130 --> 00:43:43,330 they had broken his heart. 653 00:43:43,330 --> 00:43:46,290 And that they had broken Sophie's life. 654 00:43:46,290 --> 00:43:48,250 They must be locked up. 655 00:43:49,490 --> 00:43:52,370 These people have destroyed a whole family. 656 00:43:54,250 --> 00:43:56,250 And all the people who loved Sophie. 657 00:44:39,930 --> 00:44:42,530 Subtitles by Red Bee Media 59131

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