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1
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[buzzer blaring in distance]
2
00:00:15,473 --> 00:00:16,850
[metal door clangs]
3
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[indistinct chatter]
4
00:00:27,027 --> 00:00:28,486
[buzzer sounds]
5
00:00:30,697 --> 00:00:33,033
Hey, Erik. Sorry.
6
00:00:34,784 --> 00:00:37,829
It's okay. There's nothing else to do.
7
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Uh, I know, right? It's just terrible
you're locked up in here.
8
00:00:42,667 --> 00:00:44,919
But that is what I am here for, right?
9
00:00:46,671 --> 00:00:48,548
You don't smoke, do you?
10
00:00:48,631 --> 00:00:49,883
No, never.
11
00:00:49,966 --> 00:00:50,966
Good.
12
00:00:51,634 --> 00:00:55,513
It is a disgusting habit,
and I will never kick it. I know it.
13
00:00:55,597 --> 00:00:57,015
I wish I never started.
14
00:00:57,098 --> 00:00:59,309
Yeah, my... my dad smoked.
15
00:00:59,934 --> 00:01:01,853
- It just always disgusted me.
- Good.
16
00:01:01,936 --> 00:01:04,022
Just the smell of it in his mouth.
17
00:01:04,105 --> 00:01:06,941
Well, I always try to chew
a piece of gum afterwards.
18
00:01:07,025 --> 00:01:08,735
No, it doesn't bother me with you.
19
00:01:09,235 --> 00:01:10,235
Okay, good.
20
00:01:11,029 --> 00:01:12,906
Don't ever start, okay?
21
00:01:17,869 --> 00:01:18,703
[lighter clicks]
22
00:01:18,787 --> 00:01:19,788
[Leslie] Mmm.
23
00:01:21,873 --> 00:01:23,541
Uh. [exhales deeply]
24
00:01:25,335 --> 00:01:26,753
So...
25
00:01:26,836 --> 00:01:28,338
Yeah, so...
26
00:01:29,422 --> 00:01:30,799
How you doing in here?
27
00:01:31,883 --> 00:01:34,302
Uh, not, uh... Not great.
28
00:01:34,969 --> 00:01:37,514
Sure. But you're eating now, yeah?
29
00:01:37,597 --> 00:01:42,477
Yeah. It's more that, uh, ever since
they found that letter and Lyle got moved,
30
00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:47,065
I've been here in 7,000
by myself now, kinda.
31
00:01:47,148 --> 00:01:50,276
I... I found a friend
who's just made being in here easier,
32
00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:52,654
but, um, on Saturday, he was just gone.
33
00:01:52,737 --> 00:01:53,655
Oh no.
34
00:01:53,738 --> 00:01:58,368
Yeah, just... I don't know whether
they moved him or where he went, but...
35
00:01:58,451 --> 00:01:59,536
Well, I'm sorry.
36
00:01:59,619 --> 00:02:02,914
It was just out of nowhere,
so I've just been feeling kind of, uh...
37
00:02:03,915 --> 00:02:05,708
- Lonesome.
- Yeah.
38
00:02:05,792 --> 00:02:07,293
[Leslie exhales]
39
00:02:07,377 --> 00:02:09,045
Well, I'm sorry about that.
40
00:02:11,714 --> 00:02:14,551
And, Erik, I'm sorry about
what we have to talk about now.
41
00:02:14,634 --> 00:02:15,468
Okay.
42
00:02:15,552 --> 00:02:19,139
- Because, you know, I talked to Lyle...
- Yeah, I know.
43
00:02:19,222 --> 00:02:20,932
Lyle's lawyer, Jill, was there too,
44
00:02:21,015 --> 00:02:24,102
and I actually asked Jill if I could just
come talk to you alone today.
45
00:02:24,185 --> 00:02:25,186
Oh, okay.
46
00:02:25,687 --> 00:02:27,105
And she was okay with that.
47
00:02:28,106 --> 00:02:30,191
- I think I prefer this.
- Okay, good.
48
00:02:30,275 --> 00:02:34,863
Because I talked to Lyle
about the things you told Dr. Vicary.
49
00:02:34,946 --> 00:02:35,780
Yeah.
50
00:02:35,864 --> 00:02:40,743
And, um, you know, rough stuff with Lyle,
51
00:02:40,827 --> 00:02:45,331
but with your dad too, and...
and the objects,
52
00:02:45,415 --> 00:02:48,501
and the things that Lyle did to you,
53
00:02:48,585 --> 00:02:52,255
but also the things he knew
that were going on with you and your dad,
54
00:02:52,338 --> 00:02:56,718
and how he thought it had stopped,
and when he found out it hadn't, that...
55
00:02:56,801 --> 00:02:58,094
Yeah, all of that.
56
00:02:58,178 --> 00:03:02,599
Yeah. And Lyle told you
about his experience
57
00:03:02,682 --> 00:03:04,851
with your dad, with the abuse, yeah?
58
00:03:04,934 --> 00:03:07,312
Yes. That's what we, uh...
59
00:03:08,396 --> 00:03:11,482
In the days leading up to that night,
that's what we talked about,
60
00:03:11,566 --> 00:03:15,862
kind of for the first time,
like we were, uh, comparing notes.
61
00:03:15,945 --> 00:03:17,322
- Sure.
- I guess you could say.
62
00:03:17,405 --> 00:03:19,157
But not... not in a happy way.
63
00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:22,827
Like, it was good
to finally talk about it,
64
00:03:22,911 --> 00:03:24,746
to have it be out in the open.
65
00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,334
Okay. And just to ask,
just to say it out loud...
66
00:03:29,417 --> 00:03:31,002
You believe him. Yeah?
67
00:03:34,881 --> 00:03:38,009
- Yeah. I know he's telling the truth.
- Yes.
68
00:03:38,092 --> 00:03:40,470
- What? Am I supposed...
- No, so do I.
69
00:03:40,553 --> 00:03:44,849
I just... I just want to keep
underlining that for all of us is all.
70
00:03:45,808 --> 00:03:49,896
That however much you loved this man,
he was a monster.
71
00:03:49,979 --> 00:03:51,522
And that what he did was real.
72
00:03:51,606 --> 00:03:56,527
And so, you know,
I think that Lyle's point of view
73
00:03:56,611 --> 00:03:59,280
is that however bad he had it,
74
00:03:59,364 --> 00:04:01,991
and I really do get this feeling from him,
75
00:04:02,951 --> 00:04:05,119
he feels you had it worse.
76
00:04:09,374 --> 00:04:10,374
Yeah.
77
00:04:12,752 --> 00:04:15,255
- Mm-hmm.
- Yeah. It was, um, much worse.
78
00:04:16,923 --> 00:04:18,007
- Can you...
- Sure.
79
00:04:18,091 --> 00:04:22,136
I just need you right now, if you can,
to just tell me everything.
80
00:04:22,220 --> 00:04:23,930
- Yeah. Okay.
- Can you do that?
81
00:04:24,013 --> 00:04:25,014
Yeah. I can.
82
00:04:25,098 --> 00:04:26,099
Okay.
83
00:04:27,267 --> 00:04:28,267
Um...
84
00:04:31,145 --> 00:04:33,773
Where... Where should I start? I...
85
00:04:33,856 --> 00:04:35,108
I know. It's awful.
86
00:04:35,191 --> 00:04:36,276
Um...
87
00:04:37,610 --> 00:04:41,698
Well, I guess... I would just ask...
88
00:04:42,865 --> 00:04:44,659
Do you remember when it started?
89
00:04:46,244 --> 00:04:47,244
Hmm.
90
00:04:47,870 --> 00:04:49,539
Yeah, uh...
91
00:04:51,833 --> 00:04:54,002
Well, it kinda seems
like it was always happening,
92
00:04:54,085 --> 00:04:56,379
because, I mean,
I was always afraid of him.
93
00:04:56,462 --> 00:04:59,841
- Your dad or Lyle?
- My dad. I was never afraid of Lyle.
94
00:05:00,550 --> 00:05:04,387
I always felt like Lyle was my,
uh, my protector.
95
00:05:04,470 --> 00:05:06,222
Even when he was abusing you?
96
00:05:06,306 --> 00:05:08,099
Yeah. He... he wasn't.
97
00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:12,103
I just mean that...
98
00:05:13,062 --> 00:05:16,274
Like, my earliest memories
are of running away.
99
00:05:16,899 --> 00:05:19,485
You know, I was, like, five or something,
and I wouldn't get far.
100
00:05:19,569 --> 00:05:23,239
I would just get to, uh, my aunt's house
just a few blocks down.
101
00:05:23,323 --> 00:05:24,490
And it was like, um...
102
00:05:26,367 --> 00:05:29,787
Well, because that's what Lyle said
when he found out I was still...
103
00:05:30,496 --> 00:05:33,416
He was... He was like, mad, right?
104
00:05:33,499 --> 00:05:34,334
[Leslie] Hmm.
105
00:05:34,417 --> 00:05:38,296
And he said, you know,
"Erik, how could you let this happen?"
106
00:05:38,379 --> 00:05:41,257
"Do you like it or something?
'Cause you could just run away."
107
00:05:41,341 --> 00:05:44,093
I was like, "Because
they always come find me."
108
00:05:44,177 --> 00:05:47,597
Every time I tried, they would find me,
and it just would get worse. So...
109
00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:49,932
- So running away never helped?
- No. No.
110
00:05:50,016 --> 00:05:52,810
My mom and my dad and my whole family,
111
00:05:52,894 --> 00:05:55,438
they were like this octopus
that you could never escape from.
112
00:05:55,521 --> 00:05:58,775
Because their tentacles
would come and grab you?
113
00:06:00,610 --> 00:06:03,071
- Or...
- Yeah. Something like that.
114
00:06:03,696 --> 00:06:04,697
Um...
115
00:06:06,157 --> 00:06:10,119
But as far as when it started,
Lyle thinks I was six.
116
00:06:10,203 --> 00:06:12,955
And, uh, that seems right.
117
00:06:13,039 --> 00:06:15,541
- That's when your father started with him.
- Right.
118
00:06:15,625 --> 00:06:18,461
- So that makes some sense.
- Yeah. And I, uh, didn't...
119
00:06:19,837 --> 00:06:20,922
Um...
120
00:06:21,923 --> 00:06:24,092
- What?
- Well, that's when I had Coach Wadlington.
121
00:06:24,175 --> 00:06:26,177
I was six when I started with him.
122
00:06:26,260 --> 00:06:31,432
And I remember it was happening
around then, or...
123
00:06:32,350 --> 00:06:33,893
Well, the massages did.
124
00:06:36,229 --> 00:06:37,230
Erik, what?
125
00:06:38,731 --> 00:06:41,943
- It didn't start out bad, you know?
- Yeah.
126
00:06:42,026 --> 00:06:45,613
It would just be after tennis,
or after swimming, and...
127
00:06:46,656 --> 00:06:47,656
Um...
128
00:06:50,410 --> 00:06:52,662
- Mm-hmm. Go on.
- Uh... [exhaling]
129
00:06:53,287 --> 00:06:56,666
Well, I knew that my dad didn't like me.
130
00:06:57,458 --> 00:06:58,668
How do you mean?
131
00:06:58,751 --> 00:07:01,796
Just... He was always so mean.
132
00:07:02,630 --> 00:07:06,217
You know, he loved Lyle,
but he didn't love me.
133
00:07:06,300 --> 00:07:09,345
And, uh, I could tell,
but he would also say it.
134
00:07:09,429 --> 00:07:11,740
- He'd call me these names and they were...
- What kinda names?
135
00:07:11,764 --> 00:07:14,559
Just stuff you shouldn't say
to a... a kid. Like...
136
00:07:16,727 --> 00:07:19,105
stupid, or faggot.
137
00:07:19,188 --> 00:07:20,106
Okay.
138
00:07:20,189 --> 00:07:23,901
And so then you're always trying
to impress him, or to not make him mad.
139
00:07:23,985 --> 00:07:27,196
And my mom would... she would do it, too.
They would gang up on me.
140
00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,824
Like, if I said
I was scared of the closet,
141
00:07:29,907 --> 00:07:32,535
they'd lock me in the closet
until I stopped screaming.
142
00:07:32,618 --> 00:07:36,122
And, I think they were laughing,
so I knew I wasn't gonna die.
143
00:07:36,205 --> 00:07:37,665
But still, it was just like...
144
00:07:39,208 --> 00:07:40,626
"Why would you do that?"
145
00:07:40,710 --> 00:07:42,545
Or, uh, the basement.
146
00:07:42,628 --> 00:07:45,756
- They'd lock you in the basement?
- Yeah. Because I was scared of it.
147
00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:47,508
It was to toughen me up. And...
148
00:07:47,592 --> 00:07:49,844
[Leslie scoffing] How long?
149
00:07:49,927 --> 00:07:52,305
Just all afternoon,
or until I stopped crying.
150
00:07:52,388 --> 00:07:56,392
And my mom would do it too,
but it was mostly my dad.
151
00:07:57,143 --> 00:07:58,436
That's awful.
152
00:07:58,519 --> 00:08:03,774
So, anyways, when, uh...
when you know your dad thinks you're weak,
153
00:08:03,858 --> 00:08:08,070
or, uh, I don't know, too scared,
154
00:08:08,154 --> 00:08:12,366
or something, like, not tough enough.
155
00:08:12,450 --> 00:08:16,704
And, well, then you start to think,
"Well, I guess I'm not tough enough."
156
00:08:16,787 --> 00:08:18,873
And he's always mad at you.
157
00:08:19,916 --> 00:08:22,793
Like, then the times that he's not.
158
00:08:23,503 --> 00:08:26,422
And the times when he takes you upstairs
159
00:08:26,506 --> 00:08:29,258
and says, uh,
"You know, let's take a shower,"
160
00:08:29,342 --> 00:08:31,552
and he was...
161
00:08:32,470 --> 00:08:33,888
Well, at first, he was, uh...
162
00:08:34,639 --> 00:08:37,433
- Like, he was finally nice. You know?
- Hmm.
163
00:08:37,517 --> 00:08:40,895
Like, to see that side of him
where he was, um...
164
00:08:42,563 --> 00:08:43,981
- Tender.
- Yeah.
165
00:08:44,065 --> 00:08:48,861
Because it was then, like, he could stop
being mad when no one else was there.
166
00:08:49,487 --> 00:08:52,114
But around everyone else
and even when family was over,
167
00:08:52,198 --> 00:08:55,660
he would just call you those names
or he would hit you
168
00:08:55,743 --> 00:08:58,996
and everyone... everyone saw it.
169
00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,708
But when it was just you and him,
that's... that's when he would, um...
170
00:09:06,879 --> 00:09:09,257
- What?
- That's when he'd tell me he loved me.
171
00:09:10,758 --> 00:09:12,718
- When he was abusing you?
- Yeah.
172
00:09:13,219 --> 00:09:14,303
It... it wasn't...
173
00:09:15,137 --> 00:09:18,766
[exhales] It was just
the massages at first,
174
00:09:18,849 --> 00:09:23,604
like, with oil, or he'd have his shirt off
and I'd just be in my shorts, and it was...
175
00:09:24,313 --> 00:09:25,565
[Erik sighs]
176
00:09:25,648 --> 00:09:28,067
- What?
- All the other stuff hadn't started yet.
177
00:09:28,150 --> 00:09:31,988
And so it was just like time
178
00:09:33,281 --> 00:09:39,203
being with my dad
where I felt like he cared about me.
179
00:09:40,621 --> 00:09:43,833
And, uh, it was just me and him.
180
00:09:44,709 --> 00:09:45,835
And that was good.
181
00:09:46,544 --> 00:09:49,505
Like, those were my favorite memories.
182
00:09:50,214 --> 00:09:51,215
[Leslie] Mm-hmm.
183
00:09:54,427 --> 00:09:56,262
And then the massages changed?
184
00:09:57,096 --> 00:10:00,349
[Erik inhales and exhales deeply]
185
00:10:00,975 --> 00:10:01,851
Yes.
186
00:10:01,934 --> 00:10:02,768
[Erik clears throat]
187
00:10:02,852 --> 00:10:06,731
He would say, uh, turn over
and he'd do my front.
188
00:10:06,814 --> 00:10:07,857
And by front?
189
00:10:07,940 --> 00:10:09,400
He'd massage my penis.
190
00:10:10,234 --> 00:10:12,695
- Okay.
- And so we'd fondle each other.
191
00:10:12,778 --> 00:10:16,741
- But it... it still wasn't, uh...
- What?
192
00:10:16,824 --> 00:10:20,286
Like it... it wasn't scary yet,
what we were doing,
193
00:10:20,369 --> 00:10:23,623
except I think I didn't want to,
like I would try not to do it.
194
00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:27,000
The front part?
195
00:10:27,501 --> 00:10:31,380
Yeah, because he'd be lying on his back
and I'd try to skip that part,
196
00:10:31,464 --> 00:10:34,759
and he'd say, "No, you have to do that."
197
00:10:35,593 --> 00:10:39,639
And, uh, just... then the mouth massages
as I got older.
198
00:10:39,722 --> 00:10:42,475
Like Lyle said, with the objects
and the toothbrush and...
199
00:10:42,558 --> 00:10:43,558
How old?
200
00:10:43,934 --> 00:10:47,021
Uh, definitely second grade 'cause...
201
00:10:47,521 --> 00:10:48,814
- The toothbrush?
- Mm-hmm.
202
00:10:48,898 --> 00:10:50,941
Because I remember the day
at school afterwards,
203
00:10:51,025 --> 00:10:55,321
there was a picture of a toothbrush
on the bulletin board or whatever,
204
00:10:55,404 --> 00:10:57,406
just about how
you should go to the dentist.
205
00:10:57,490 --> 00:10:59,950
And, um, I remember thinking
206
00:11:00,034 --> 00:11:03,204
that the toothbrush in the picture
wouldn't have hurt as much.
207
00:11:04,538 --> 00:11:05,623
[Leslie] Hmm.
208
00:11:06,540 --> 00:11:12,880
Uh, and so there were four different kinds
of... of sex with my dad.
209
00:11:12,963 --> 00:11:16,509
There was nice, which was the, um...
210
00:11:17,510 --> 00:11:19,637
Well, the massages came before, but...
211
00:11:20,888 --> 00:11:24,934
[sighs] Then, when he started
making me use my mouth, it was just...
212
00:11:26,811 --> 00:11:29,605
It was too big, and I, uh,
I didn't... I didn't like that.
213
00:11:29,689 --> 00:11:30,564
Yeah.
214
00:11:30,648 --> 00:11:33,401
- Doing that to him seemed really dirty.
- Yeah.
215
00:11:34,193 --> 00:11:36,696
[sighs deeply] When he did it to me,
that was...
216
00:11:40,074 --> 00:11:43,953
But to him, the... the naked...
He called them "naked mouth massages."
217
00:11:44,036 --> 00:11:46,831
- Doing that to him felt really dirty.
- Yeah.
218
00:11:46,914 --> 00:11:49,291
Uh, and I didn't like it,
219
00:11:49,375 --> 00:11:53,504
but he would say, you know,
"You did good. Good boy."
220
00:11:53,587 --> 00:11:55,631
And it was just...
221
00:11:56,882 --> 00:12:02,430
the only time I felt like I had
a real relationship with my dad,
222
00:12:02,513 --> 00:12:06,100
where I felt that he did love me.
223
00:12:07,810 --> 00:12:12,314
And, uh, they'd go on for a long time,
the nice sex sessions.
224
00:12:13,274 --> 00:12:16,152
Sometimes I started to wonder
where everybody else was
225
00:12:16,235 --> 00:12:18,487
just because they'd go on for so long.
226
00:12:18,571 --> 00:12:23,367
And in a lot of ways, even though
it felt dirty, it was also like...
227
00:12:25,035 --> 00:12:28,164
like I was the center of the world
for once, you know?
228
00:12:28,247 --> 00:12:31,041
- Mm-hmm.
- And it... it also felt...
229
00:12:33,085 --> 00:12:34,085
Nice?
230
00:12:37,882 --> 00:12:38,924
[Leslie] Mm-hmm.
231
00:12:40,885 --> 00:12:41,719
Go on.
232
00:12:41,802 --> 00:12:43,512
The objects were to get me ready.
233
00:12:44,263 --> 00:12:46,515
Lyle and I realized that
when we finally, um...
234
00:12:47,224 --> 00:12:48,768
- When you talked about it.
- Yeah.
235
00:12:48,851 --> 00:12:52,563
And that he was, uh, preparing our bodies
236
00:12:52,646 --> 00:12:55,191
for something bigger.
237
00:12:56,525 --> 00:12:59,320
And, uh, at first he made me do it to him.
238
00:12:59,987 --> 00:13:00,987
Do?
239
00:13:02,239 --> 00:13:03,239
Sex.
240
00:13:03,949 --> 00:13:06,660
Like, to penetrate him.
241
00:13:06,744 --> 00:13:07,744
[Leslie] Hmm.
242
00:13:08,412 --> 00:13:11,874
He always said he wanted to teach me
how to use my... my penis.
243
00:13:12,583 --> 00:13:15,669
- And that felt really dirty every time.
- Yeah.
244
00:13:15,753 --> 00:13:17,171
And I didn't like it.
245
00:13:18,088 --> 00:13:19,089
And, um...
246
00:13:21,133 --> 00:13:24,053
- What?
- In order to do that, you have to be...
247
00:13:25,095 --> 00:13:26,096
Erect.
248
00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,435
That... That''s what was so, uh,
weird about it.
249
00:13:31,519 --> 00:13:32,978
And that I could ever...
250
00:13:34,438 --> 00:13:35,689
- Um...
- What?
251
00:13:39,777 --> 00:13:40,986
[sighs deeply]
252
00:13:42,613 --> 00:13:44,413
- [Leslie whispers] It's okay.
- Or... orgasm.
253
00:13:47,743 --> 00:13:51,205
That was, uh, really confusing to me
at that age.
254
00:13:51,831 --> 00:13:53,165
Of course it would be.
255
00:13:53,249 --> 00:13:54,249
Uh...
256
00:13:56,252 --> 00:13:57,503
And then he... he...
257
00:13:59,338 --> 00:14:02,216
Then he started to rape me and that...
258
00:14:03,717 --> 00:14:07,054
He'd take a slat from underneath the bed
and he'd put it under the doorknob...
259
00:14:07,137 --> 00:14:08,137
Oh my God.
260
00:14:08,180 --> 00:14:11,809
And I... I would cry, and it hurt,
261
00:14:11,892 --> 00:14:16,355
and he'd say,
"You know, why can't you be like Lyle?"
262
00:14:16,939 --> 00:14:18,941
"Just be a Menendez and get used to it."
263
00:14:20,985 --> 00:14:22,027
And I just...
264
00:14:25,239 --> 00:14:29,118
I remember feeling so, um... disappointed
265
00:14:29,201 --> 00:14:34,164
because he was comparing us again,
266
00:14:34,248 --> 00:14:38,377
Lyle and me,
like I wasn't good enough again,
267
00:14:38,460 --> 00:14:42,631
and like, all of the stuff
that he'd said about loving me,
268
00:14:42,715 --> 00:14:45,759
like, that was just gone.
269
00:14:45,843 --> 00:14:48,596
Or like that had never even,
like, happened.
270
00:14:52,099 --> 00:14:53,934
How often did this happen?
271
00:14:54,018 --> 00:14:55,019
The just sex?
272
00:14:55,102 --> 00:14:56,102
Mm-hmm.
273
00:14:56,437 --> 00:15:00,399
Um, like, two or three times a month?
274
00:15:01,358 --> 00:15:02,358
From when?
275
00:15:02,735 --> 00:15:03,735
Uh...
276
00:15:04,153 --> 00:15:05,779
Like, junior high, I think.
277
00:15:05,863 --> 00:15:06,947
So 11.
278
00:15:07,031 --> 00:15:08,031
Mm-hmm.
279
00:15:08,073 --> 00:15:09,158
Until...
280
00:15:09,241 --> 00:15:11,619
- Uh, right before...
- Right before they're dead?
281
00:15:11,702 --> 00:15:14,830
- Yeah. Just a few months before.
- Was the last time?
282
00:15:14,914 --> 00:15:15,914
Yes.
283
00:15:18,125 --> 00:15:19,125
Erik...
284
00:15:21,003 --> 00:15:25,257
You were raped hundreds of times
by your father?
285
00:15:26,884 --> 00:15:27,884
Yes.
286
00:15:29,470 --> 00:15:31,889
That was just what my life was like.
287
00:15:33,724 --> 00:15:35,309
I'm so sorry, Erik.
288
00:15:35,392 --> 00:15:36,936
It's okay. It's just...
289
00:15:37,019 --> 00:15:38,103
You kind of, uh...
290
00:15:39,104 --> 00:15:40,230
You get through it.
291
00:15:40,314 --> 00:15:43,150
Yeah, and you just, um, survive, I guess.
292
00:15:43,859 --> 00:15:47,613
You live for those times
when it doesn't happen, you know?
293
00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:49,490
And you think, like...
294
00:15:49,573 --> 00:15:50,573
[sniffs]
295
00:15:50,616 --> 00:15:53,035
Well, I mean, you do get through it.
It's like...
296
00:15:55,871 --> 00:15:59,416
It's like...
It's like Christmas morning, you know?
297
00:15:59,500 --> 00:16:01,627
And you think, "Okay, I got through that,
298
00:16:01,710 --> 00:16:05,255
I'm not gonna have to, uh,
do that for a while now."
299
00:16:05,339 --> 00:16:07,549
Or, "Maybe because this time,
it was knees,
300
00:16:07,633 --> 00:16:10,344
maybe next time,
it'll be nice sex or maybe..."
301
00:16:10,427 --> 00:16:11,512
Sorry. Knees?
302
00:16:12,137 --> 00:16:14,390
Well, that was another one of the, um...
303
00:16:15,057 --> 00:16:18,394
I had different names for things.
Knees was... It wasn't my favorite.
304
00:16:18,477 --> 00:16:22,523
It'd be when I do the mouth massages
to him, and he would, uh...
305
00:16:24,024 --> 00:16:25,025
What?
306
00:16:25,109 --> 00:16:25,985
[exhales deeply]
307
00:16:26,068 --> 00:16:30,280
He would finish, I guess, in my mouth,
and I just hated the taste of it.
308
00:16:30,364 --> 00:16:32,950
That's why I started putting
the cinnamon into his coffee
309
00:16:33,033 --> 00:16:35,202
and putting lemon on my food and stuff.
310
00:16:35,285 --> 00:16:38,872
- The cinnamon was for the taste.
- To make it taste better.
311
00:16:38,956 --> 00:16:42,167
So if I had done that
or I had gotten through that,
312
00:16:42,251 --> 00:16:45,754
I'd think, "Maybe next time,
he'll do a mouth massage to me,
313
00:16:45,838 --> 00:16:48,048
or it'll just not be the rough sex."
314
00:16:48,132 --> 00:16:50,968
I just... I never wanted it
to be the rough sex.
315
00:16:52,845 --> 00:16:53,845
[sighs]
316
00:16:54,179 --> 00:16:56,140
And what was rough sex like?
317
00:17:00,019 --> 00:17:01,186
Uh, just...
318
00:17:03,647 --> 00:17:04,647
Just...
319
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:07,400
hitting,
320
00:17:08,068 --> 00:17:11,196
and, um, really painful.
321
00:17:11,989 --> 00:17:16,577
He would get mean, and he would punch me,
and he was really strong.
322
00:17:17,077 --> 00:17:18,203
[Leslie clears throat]
323
00:17:18,287 --> 00:17:20,122
[exhales] And I couldn't, um...
324
00:17:21,498 --> 00:17:25,002
I don't know why, but for some reason,
I just could never hit him back.
325
00:17:25,085 --> 00:17:27,546
It was like when I was little,
when I was running away.
326
00:17:27,629 --> 00:17:30,090
Like, it just doesn't work.
You... [sniffling]
327
00:17:30,174 --> 00:17:32,634
You can't get out of it.
328
00:17:32,718 --> 00:17:35,262
Like, he won't stop.
You just have to do it.
329
00:17:35,345 --> 00:17:39,308
You have to just try to, uh...
to get... get through it.
330
00:17:40,100 --> 00:17:42,561
But the, um, the rough sex was...
331
00:17:44,605 --> 00:17:46,273
- [Erik sighs]
- [Leslie] Hmm. What?
332
00:17:48,609 --> 00:17:49,526
Uh...
333
00:17:49,610 --> 00:17:52,571
I'd have to, um, kneel on the headboard.
334
00:17:52,654 --> 00:17:55,783
But, like, at the end of the bed,
like the foot of the bed. [sniffling]
335
00:17:55,866 --> 00:17:58,035
But, like, it'd be into my shins.
336
00:17:58,118 --> 00:18:00,913
So it'd be stuff to make it hurt.
337
00:18:00,996 --> 00:18:03,332
Because he would always say,
"This is what the Greeks did."
338
00:18:03,415 --> 00:18:06,085
"This is how they toughened themselves up
to make things not hurt."
339
00:18:06,168 --> 00:18:08,837
So if it hurt,
you had to try to get through it.
340
00:18:08,921 --> 00:18:12,049
So I'd be inserting objects into my, um...
341
00:18:12,674 --> 00:18:17,096
Or, like, with my penis, like pins or, uh...
342
00:18:17,679 --> 00:18:20,265
Like, he cut my leg.
Like, I've got a scar on my leg
343
00:18:20,349 --> 00:18:24,311
because he'd be doing this stuff while
I'd be doing the mouth massages to him.
344
00:18:24,394 --> 00:18:28,649
And he'd be, uh, you know,
just trying to toughen me up.
345
00:18:28,732 --> 00:18:31,777
But, um, when...
346
00:18:32,861 --> 00:18:37,241
when he's tying something
around your penis, like a rope or, like...
347
00:18:37,866 --> 00:18:41,411
like, I don't think that's supposed
to make someone tough. Like...
348
00:18:41,495 --> 00:18:42,496
No, it does not.
349
00:18:43,413 --> 00:18:46,917
Wait, that's more kind of, like,
torturing someone?
350
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:48,210
Yes, Erik.
351
00:18:48,293 --> 00:18:52,464
And I just don't think
that's what a father's supposed to, uh...
352
00:18:53,590 --> 00:18:54,590
No, it's not.
353
00:18:54,633 --> 00:18:57,010
Like, that's not
what you do to someone you, um...
354
00:18:58,220 --> 00:19:00,180
That's what you do
to someone you hate, you know?
355
00:19:00,264 --> 00:19:03,225
- Erik, you did not deserve that.
- He'd call me these, like...
356
00:19:03,725 --> 00:19:04,768
[exhales deeply]
357
00:19:04,852 --> 00:19:08,564
Sometimes it was what he would say
that would somehow hurt even more, like...
358
00:19:08,647 --> 00:19:09,523
Like what?
359
00:19:09,606 --> 00:19:12,901
I just wanted to say to him,
like, "If I'm such a faggot,
360
00:19:13,652 --> 00:19:16,238
then why are you asking me
to fuck you in the ass?"
361
00:19:16,321 --> 00:19:17,990
You know? Like, that's...
362
00:19:18,073 --> 00:19:20,117
- Yeah.
- You know? And I...
363
00:19:21,285 --> 00:19:22,494
- What?
- I don't know.
364
00:19:22,578 --> 00:19:26,206
- No, what were you going to say?
- No, I don't know. I don't know.
365
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,296
And you're supposed to... I mean...
366
00:19:33,172 --> 00:19:36,133
Like, this is a man
who did such amazing stuff, you know?
367
00:19:36,216 --> 00:19:38,135
Like, my dad was an amazing man.
368
00:19:38,218 --> 00:19:41,805
I loved him so much.
And I still love him so much.
369
00:19:41,889 --> 00:19:45,017
And that's why I'm like... I don't wanna be
in here for the rest of my life,
370
00:19:45,100 --> 00:19:48,520
because, like, to have that thought, like...
371
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:52,191
to have that thought,
372
00:19:52,816 --> 00:19:55,402
laying alone in here in a cell at night,
all cooped up in here,
373
00:19:55,485 --> 00:19:57,404
and to have that be a thought
you're thinking...
374
00:19:57,487 --> 00:19:58,363
What thought?
375
00:19:58,447 --> 00:20:00,866
Like, that I love my dad.
376
00:20:01,450 --> 00:20:02,534
Like, that's...
377
00:20:03,785 --> 00:20:04,912
[sighs deeply]
378
00:20:04,995 --> 00:20:09,082
Like, it wasn't the rough sex, the pins,
and the rope that were the torture. Like...
379
00:20:10,209 --> 00:20:12,461
Like, that would be the torture. To, uh...
380
00:20:13,212 --> 00:20:15,797
To still love him.
381
00:20:17,049 --> 00:20:22,346
And that's why Lyle used to say,
you know, "Erik, they'd be proud of us."
382
00:20:22,429 --> 00:20:25,182
And I'd always agree with him.
383
00:20:25,265 --> 00:20:29,102
But then later, I'd think, I mean,
"They're not proud that we killed them."
384
00:20:29,895 --> 00:20:32,439
But then, just the last few days in here,
385
00:20:33,357 --> 00:20:36,193
and really since Saturday,
like, just thinking a lot,
386
00:20:36,276 --> 00:20:38,111
it just really occurred to me that...
387
00:20:38,195 --> 00:20:39,071
What did?
388
00:20:39,154 --> 00:20:41,365
That he probably would. You know?
389
00:20:42,449 --> 00:20:44,993
Like in Heaven, right now,
he'd be looking down, and he'd say,
390
00:20:45,077 --> 00:20:46,411
"Thank you, Erik and Lyle."
391
00:20:46,495 --> 00:20:48,789
"You know,
you did what you had to do to me
392
00:20:48,872 --> 00:20:52,042
because what I did to you
was really wrong." [sniffling]
393
00:20:52,125 --> 00:20:53,126
"And I love you."
394
00:20:53,210 --> 00:20:55,629
"And you... you took that off my shoulders,"
395
00:20:55,712 --> 00:20:59,549
or, "You took that off my soul,"
or whatever, if that makes sense.
396
00:20:59,633 --> 00:21:01,093
- I don't know.
- It does. It does.
397
00:21:01,176 --> 00:21:03,720
"You made me into someone
who doesn't do that anymore,"
398
00:21:03,804 --> 00:21:05,639
is what Lyle meant, and what I mean.
399
00:21:05,722 --> 00:21:09,184
So that now I could...
Now we can love him again.
400
00:21:10,102 --> 00:21:12,980
Really, for the first time,
because he's not doing that anymore.
401
00:21:13,063 --> 00:21:13,981
Wow.
402
00:21:14,064 --> 00:21:17,818
So, that's why I don't want
to be here, all alone,
403
00:21:18,318 --> 00:21:20,279
with that thought banging around my head,
404
00:21:20,362 --> 00:21:23,240
not without Lyle not here,
and my friend gone now.
405
00:21:23,323 --> 00:21:24,323
[sniffs]
406
00:21:28,412 --> 00:21:31,039
[buzzer blaring in distance]
407
00:21:31,123 --> 00:21:32,165
[door clanging]
408
00:21:34,001 --> 00:21:35,001
What?
409
00:21:36,670 --> 00:21:40,590
No, I'm just... I'm just blown away
by you, Erik Menendez.
410
00:21:40,674 --> 00:21:44,052
- You don't... You... you shouldn't say that.
- No, I mean it. I really, really do.
411
00:21:44,136 --> 00:21:46,138
[sniffs] Really do.
412
00:21:46,221 --> 00:21:48,432
I know a lot of people.
413
00:21:48,932 --> 00:21:51,268
I know a lot of very impressive people,
414
00:21:51,935 --> 00:21:54,271
and you are right at the top.
415
00:21:55,022 --> 00:21:59,192
With everything you have been through
and what you have had to do,
416
00:21:59,735 --> 00:22:03,488
and who you are right now,
telling me all of this...
417
00:22:04,323 --> 00:22:07,200
The bravery, Erik?
418
00:22:08,618 --> 00:22:13,040
You are just an incredible person,
and I just have to say it.
419
00:22:13,123 --> 00:22:15,042
- [sniffs] And...
- Thank you.
420
00:22:15,125 --> 00:22:16,752
I'm not gonna make this about me,
421
00:22:16,835 --> 00:22:20,005
but, you know, my father
was a fucking son of a bitch.
422
00:22:20,088 --> 00:22:21,965
[chuckles]
423
00:22:22,049 --> 00:22:23,800
- Really?
- Yeah. Yeah.
424
00:22:23,884 --> 00:22:25,635
Abandoned me and my brother.
425
00:22:25,719 --> 00:22:29,765
Just... This man that I loved,
told me I was his little princess,
426
00:22:29,848 --> 00:22:33,560
and he just dropped off
without so much as a word,
427
00:22:33,643 --> 00:22:38,148
ran away with another family,
and I haven't heard from him in 34 years.
428
00:22:38,231 --> 00:22:40,192
- [sniffs] And...
- Oh, I'm so sorry.
429
00:22:40,275 --> 00:22:42,986
Well, thank you. I... Nothing like yours.
430
00:22:43,070 --> 00:22:46,406
I just say that by way of,
you know, hearing all of this,
431
00:22:46,490 --> 00:22:48,367
which is just mind-boggling,
432
00:22:48,450 --> 00:22:51,078
and hearing it, thank you,
433
00:22:51,745 --> 00:22:53,497
is just, you know...
434
00:22:54,790 --> 00:22:56,708
You don't have to forgive him.
435
00:22:57,876 --> 00:23:00,212
Your father. Okay?
436
00:23:00,295 --> 00:23:03,632
My father wasn't one-tenth
of one-millionth
437
00:23:03,715 --> 00:23:05,634
of a percentage as bad as yours.
438
00:23:05,717 --> 00:23:07,552
Okay, just no comparison.
439
00:23:08,261 --> 00:23:10,555
And my brother, he's forgiven him.
440
00:23:10,639 --> 00:23:12,265
You know, he talks to him.
441
00:23:13,350 --> 00:23:14,350
But, Erik,
442
00:23:15,644 --> 00:23:21,108
no fucking way will I forgive him
for what he did.
443
00:23:21,191 --> 00:23:23,360
Not now, not ever.
444
00:23:24,152 --> 00:23:27,906
And I just say that
'cause you have that option, too.
445
00:23:29,574 --> 00:23:30,826
- Okay?
- Okay.
446
00:23:30,909 --> 00:23:33,036
Because, you know, hearing all this,
447
00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:36,373
I... I just have to keep asking myself
and asking you,
448
00:23:37,416 --> 00:23:40,419
where was your mother in all of this?
449
00:23:40,502 --> 00:23:43,588
- Well, see because she...
- Let's not make excuses for her.
450
00:23:43,672 --> 00:23:44,965
He cheated on her.
451
00:23:45,048 --> 00:23:48,051
And Lyle said he walked in on them
one time, and my dad was raping her.
452
00:23:48,135 --> 00:23:49,719
Okay, well, that's still...
453
00:23:49,803 --> 00:23:51,972
My dad ruined her life, I think.
454
00:23:52,055 --> 00:23:55,392
And she would sometimes say,
which, well, wasn't even...
455
00:23:55,892 --> 00:23:56,935
She would, um...
456
00:23:57,769 --> 00:23:58,603
[sighs]
457
00:23:58,687 --> 00:23:59,687
[Leslie] What?
458
00:24:00,605 --> 00:24:05,235
With Lyle, she would sometimes...
she would sometimes get naked.
459
00:24:05,318 --> 00:24:06,862
- This is your mother?
- Yes.
460
00:24:06,945 --> 00:24:10,282
But it wasn't...
it wasn't like it was with my dad.
461
00:24:10,365 --> 00:24:11,365
She was...
462
00:24:11,867 --> 00:24:14,911
She just wanted us to think
she had a nice body, and she liked ours.
463
00:24:14,995 --> 00:24:16,496
But it was just looking. Or...
464
00:24:17,372 --> 00:24:20,333
Well, yeah, it was just looking.
465
00:24:20,417 --> 00:24:21,417
She would...
466
00:24:23,462 --> 00:24:26,006
When I was 16,
she started doing this thing where...
467
00:24:26,089 --> 00:24:28,758
Because I think by then,
the stuff with Dad was intense.
468
00:24:28,842 --> 00:24:29,842
And she...
469
00:24:30,385 --> 00:24:31,219
[sighs deeply]
470
00:24:31,303 --> 00:24:35,265
My mom would do this thing
where she would inspect my...
471
00:24:36,516 --> 00:24:37,726
- Penis?
- Yeah.
472
00:24:37,809 --> 00:24:40,228
And, you know, she'd be like,
"Why do you shave it all?"
473
00:24:40,312 --> 00:24:41,771
And I'd be like, "No, Dad did that."
474
00:24:41,855 --> 00:24:45,275
But I couldn't say that because, well...
475
00:24:45,358 --> 00:24:47,569
[sighing] It was weird
'cause we were close.
476
00:24:47,652 --> 00:24:49,321
But then Dad also had these girlfriends,
477
00:24:49,404 --> 00:24:51,990
so, I think that
she also thought I was, too.
478
00:24:52,073 --> 00:24:54,534
- Was what?
- That I was sleeping with Dad.
479
00:24:54,618 --> 00:24:55,911
So, I was...
480
00:24:57,162 --> 00:24:58,413
She... she was...
481
00:24:58,497 --> 00:25:00,081
I... I was coming between them.
482
00:25:00,624 --> 00:25:02,918
And that wasn't ever something
that we talked about.
483
00:25:03,001 --> 00:25:04,878
Like, she would've never said anything.
484
00:25:04,961 --> 00:25:07,589
It was something you knew,
but didn't talk about
485
00:25:07,672 --> 00:25:09,341
because that was just our family.
486
00:25:09,424 --> 00:25:10,675
But I knew how she felt.
487
00:25:11,551 --> 00:25:15,805
And her feeling that way was why I think
she, like, made me get a girlfriend,
488
00:25:15,889 --> 00:25:17,724
but she would do the inspections, right?
489
00:25:17,807 --> 00:25:19,935
- Of your...
- She'd do inspections of my... Yeah.
490
00:25:20,018 --> 00:25:22,062
Because she was terrified of AIDS,
491
00:25:22,145 --> 00:25:25,815
and she would always check me
for blisters, like, on my penis.
492
00:25:25,899 --> 00:25:28,777
And I think it was because
it was a way to see if, like...
493
00:25:29,611 --> 00:25:32,030
You know, because I think
she knew that Dad and I were,
494
00:25:32,113 --> 00:25:34,115
so if one of Dad's girlfriends
had something...
495
00:25:34,199 --> 00:25:36,493
- Hold on.
- ...then I got it, that means she'd get it.
496
00:25:36,576 --> 00:25:38,036
I wanna go back for a second.
497
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:39,871
Actually, it's not important.
498
00:25:39,955 --> 00:25:42,165
- Forget that.
- But why did she think you had AIDS?
499
00:25:42,249 --> 00:25:45,085
- It's not important. Just forget it.
- But why would she think that?
500
00:25:45,168 --> 00:25:48,004
- I said, it's not important. Forget it!
- What I mean is...
501
00:25:48,088 --> 00:25:51,383
She just wanted to make sure,
so she'd do those inspections. That's why.
502
00:25:51,466 --> 00:25:57,180
But why would she think
you would get AIDS?
503
00:25:57,764 --> 00:26:01,101
And before you answer that,
I just wanna say that I'm not your mother.
504
00:26:01,184 --> 00:26:03,478
Okay? And frankly,
I don't like your mother.
505
00:26:03,562 --> 00:26:06,481
- Yeah, but she was...
- I'm sorry. No. That's not a mother, Erik.
506
00:26:06,565 --> 00:26:08,024
Okay? And I am a mother.
507
00:26:08,817 --> 00:26:10,485
Wasn't the perfect one, I'm sure.
508
00:26:10,569 --> 00:26:13,488
Maybe that's why
I want another shot at it, okay?
509
00:26:13,572 --> 00:26:16,324
But for you to... I mean,
I know you loved her.
510
00:26:16,408 --> 00:26:18,076
I do. We were really close.
511
00:26:18,159 --> 00:26:20,203
Lyle and her weren't,
but me and her, we were.
512
00:26:20,287 --> 00:26:23,415
- Everyone's gonna love their mother.
- Yes, and I do.
513
00:26:23,498 --> 00:26:27,877
But for her to have known,
and to have not intervened...
514
00:26:27,961 --> 00:26:29,170
Yes. Because she was...
515
00:26:29,254 --> 00:26:32,048
No, but let me... I'm sorry.
Let me just say this and we can go back.
516
00:26:32,132 --> 00:26:36,219
Because there were a lot of avenues
that she could have taken there, okay?
517
00:26:36,303 --> 00:26:38,388
Where she could have gone
to the authorities,
518
00:26:38,471 --> 00:26:42,058
where she could have said,
"No, not my sons."
519
00:26:42,142 --> 00:26:44,603
"You will not abuse my sons!" Right?
520
00:26:45,854 --> 00:26:47,856
- Yes.
- And that's a pretty low bar, okay?
521
00:26:47,939 --> 00:26:49,149
And she didn't do that.
522
00:26:49,983 --> 00:26:51,526
She didn't do any of that.
523
00:26:52,902 --> 00:26:54,821
Not because of you. Look at me.
524
00:26:55,322 --> 00:26:58,366
Not because of you, but because of her.
525
00:27:00,201 --> 00:27:01,201
Okay?
526
00:27:01,536 --> 00:27:03,330
So for you to...
527
00:27:03,413 --> 00:27:04,748
Yes, you can love her.
528
00:27:04,831 --> 00:27:08,293
Yes, you can sympathize with her,
and then I wanna ask you something.
529
00:27:08,376 --> 00:27:11,171
I wanna say this to you,
and I'd say it to Lyle...
530
00:27:11,254 --> 00:27:14,049
You deserved better than her.
531
00:27:15,258 --> 00:27:17,886
I won't even mention your father.
That goes without saying.
532
00:27:17,969 --> 00:27:22,015
That man is in a place is all I'll say.
533
00:27:22,098 --> 00:27:23,183
But your mom too.
534
00:27:23,933 --> 00:27:28,438
And if what you are saying is true,
and what Lyle is saying is true,
535
00:27:28,521 --> 00:27:30,857
you deserved better.
536
00:27:31,733 --> 00:27:34,319
Okay? So that's just where
I'm coming from.
537
00:27:36,112 --> 00:27:37,112
But, Erik,
538
00:27:38,365 --> 00:27:41,201
can you tell me
why she thought you had AIDS?
539
00:27:41,284 --> 00:27:42,577
Can you just tell me?
540
00:27:43,953 --> 00:27:45,246
[sighs deeply]
541
00:27:47,624 --> 00:27:48,958
Well, see, um,
542
00:27:50,251 --> 00:27:51,961
this is what's so hard.
543
00:27:52,045 --> 00:27:52,962
What?
544
00:27:53,046 --> 00:27:54,046
About...
545
00:27:54,089 --> 00:27:56,216
Because I don't know.
546
00:27:59,969 --> 00:28:03,139
I don't know what way you are
and what way you're supposed to be
547
00:28:03,223 --> 00:28:04,974
when that's your childhood.
548
00:28:05,475 --> 00:28:08,561
Like, when that's what your dad's doing
to you. Like... [sniffs]
549
00:28:12,023 --> 00:28:16,027
[sighing] Well, I remember one time,
my mom, she called Lyle and me,
550
00:28:16,111 --> 00:28:17,654
and I don't think she meant it,
551
00:28:17,737 --> 00:28:19,989
but she screamed at us, like,
"You're sociopaths!"
552
00:28:20,073 --> 00:28:25,495
And a part of me was like,
"Well, maybe we are sociopaths,
553
00:28:25,578 --> 00:28:28,456
but can you blame us if we are,
554
00:28:28,540 --> 00:28:30,709
when you know
what's been happening to us?"
555
00:28:31,209 --> 00:28:33,962
So, like, the feelings I have of, like...
556
00:28:35,672 --> 00:28:38,591
sex stuff or, um, or...
557
00:28:38,675 --> 00:28:39,884
- Orientation.
- Yeah.
558
00:28:39,968 --> 00:28:44,139
Or of Dad's, or like whatever
feelings I have, or which way I...
559
00:28:45,014 --> 00:28:46,057
Like, I just...
560
00:28:47,016 --> 00:28:51,771
I don't... I don't know if it's me
or how I was supposed to be.
561
00:28:53,732 --> 00:28:56,192
And, uh, that's why she...
562
00:28:57,902 --> 00:29:00,488
With the inspections
when I was 16 because...
563
00:29:03,992 --> 00:29:04,992
It's okay.
564
00:29:05,452 --> 00:29:07,579
I don't want to say who it was, but, um...
565
00:29:10,373 --> 00:29:11,374
I was...
566
00:29:12,959 --> 00:29:16,671
I was kind of in love with a boy.
567
00:29:18,173 --> 00:29:20,258
Or a teenager like me, who was a boy.
568
00:29:20,341 --> 00:29:21,217
Okay.
569
00:29:21,301 --> 00:29:23,470
But it was because
I was having sex with my dad,
570
00:29:23,553 --> 00:29:25,388
like, that's not normal.
571
00:29:25,472 --> 00:29:29,517
And that made me not normal.
And so he wasn't... He didn't...
572
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,354
He... This boy, he didn't have a dad
who did that to him.
573
00:29:33,438 --> 00:29:36,983
He was just always that way,
but I'm not sure I was,
574
00:29:37,066 --> 00:29:41,112
and I'm... I'm not sure I am,
but like, I have those feelings. Like...
575
00:29:43,448 --> 00:29:45,617
I was in love with someone, and, uh...
576
00:29:47,243 --> 00:29:51,790
he, this boy, we said we would
never say each other's names and I won't.
577
00:29:52,499 --> 00:29:56,753
But when we had sex then,
it was... it wasn't like it was with my dad.
578
00:29:56,836 --> 00:29:57,836
It was...
579
00:29:58,546 --> 00:29:59,547
Nice.
580
00:30:01,049 --> 00:30:02,217
It was really nice.
581
00:30:03,968 --> 00:30:05,261
It was really nice.
582
00:30:07,847 --> 00:30:11,100
[sniffs] And in here,
it was... was really nice, but now it's...
583
00:30:12,435 --> 00:30:14,312
Whatever. It doesn't matter. But, um...
584
00:30:16,815 --> 00:30:17,815
Okay.
585
00:30:19,651 --> 00:30:22,487
- Okay.
- No, actually, I don't think you, uh...
586
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:25,281
No, I understand.
587
00:30:25,365 --> 00:30:29,077
No, I... I think you think I'm saying
something different than I am.
588
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:30,870
Like, yes, I've done certain things.
589
00:30:30,954 --> 00:30:33,081
And so, you know,
you're gonna say I'm one way,
590
00:30:33,164 --> 00:30:35,458
and you're gonna tell everyone
I'm one way, but I'm not.
591
00:30:35,542 --> 00:30:38,545
- No, I'm not. I'm not gonna tell anyone.
- I'm actually... No.
592
00:30:38,628 --> 00:30:40,463
Okay. But what I'm saying is...
593
00:30:40,547 --> 00:30:42,507
I'm just saying, I don't know.
594
00:30:43,091 --> 00:30:45,218
Okay? I don't know what I am.
595
00:30:45,301 --> 00:30:49,138
I can't tell what I am, and I never
will be able to tell is what I'm saying.
596
00:30:49,222 --> 00:30:51,349
And yeah, maybe I am a sociopath,
597
00:30:51,432 --> 00:30:54,519
and maybe I should've got AIDS,
and maybe I'll only like it this way.
598
00:30:54,602 --> 00:30:56,187
Because with girls, it was like,
599
00:30:56,271 --> 00:30:59,232
how could I even know
when he's done this to me?
600
00:30:59,816 --> 00:31:03,111
When it's been happening for so long,
I don't remember when it started.
601
00:31:03,194 --> 00:31:06,656
When I can't remember a time
when my dad wasn't fucking me.
602
00:31:06,739 --> 00:31:09,576
- Like, he broke me. I'm a broken person.
- No, you're not.
603
00:31:09,659 --> 00:31:13,079
Yes, I am. He broke me in two.
He cracked me in half.
604
00:31:13,162 --> 00:31:15,290
- I am not a real person.
- You are a real person.
605
00:31:15,373 --> 00:31:17,458
You can't be
when the only man you wanna love
606
00:31:17,542 --> 00:31:19,377
does that to you, you stop being real.
607
00:31:19,460 --> 00:31:21,754
- You are real.
- Stop saying that.
608
00:31:24,966 --> 00:31:26,801
Just stop.
609
00:31:31,347 --> 00:31:32,765
I am the Hurt Man.
610
00:31:37,103 --> 00:31:38,605
What is the Hurt Man?
611
00:31:42,442 --> 00:31:43,442
[inhales deeply]
612
00:31:43,860 --> 00:31:44,860
It's me.
613
00:31:48,489 --> 00:31:51,284
- That's the name for yourself?
- Yes, since I...
614
00:31:51,784 --> 00:31:54,746
- Since when you were little.
- For as long as I can remember.
615
00:31:56,414 --> 00:31:57,957
That's what I call myself.
616
00:31:59,042 --> 00:32:00,042
Since forever.
617
00:32:01,502 --> 00:32:02,962
That's always been my name.
618
00:32:06,215 --> 00:32:07,550
And it's never gonna end.
619
00:32:09,135 --> 00:32:10,637
And it's never gonna not hurt.
620
00:32:13,806 --> 00:32:15,391
I shot my mom in the face.
621
00:32:16,726 --> 00:32:17,936
And my dad, I think.
622
00:32:19,812 --> 00:32:23,441
That's not a... [sniffling]
That's not a normal thing you do.
623
00:32:24,609 --> 00:32:27,487
So... I don't know what I am.
624
00:32:28,154 --> 00:32:29,948
And I don't think I'll ever know
625
00:32:30,031 --> 00:32:32,784
is what I realized since Saturday
if I don't get out of here.
626
00:32:32,867 --> 00:32:35,870
- I will get you out of here.
- No. Stop, stop saying that.
627
00:32:40,541 --> 00:32:44,671
I will never really know who I am
if I don't get out of here.
628
00:32:47,006 --> 00:32:48,007
I'll never know.
629
00:32:59,310 --> 00:33:01,312
[female vocalizing]
630
00:33:04,190 --> 00:33:06,192
[somber music playing]
631
00:34:17,013 --> 00:34:18,931
[music ends]
49179
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