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1
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(LIVIA) What are we going to do
about Claudius?
2
00:00:42,287 --> 00:00:45,996
(AUGUSTUS) Quintilius Varus,
where are my eagles?!
3
00:00:46,167 --> 00:00:48,362
(LIVIA) Don't touch the figs.
4
00:00:48,527 --> 00:00:51,087
(CALIGULA) There'll be no pain, I promise.
5
00:00:51,247 --> 00:00:53,238
(NERO) What a pretty thing a fire is.
6
00:00:54,167 --> 00:00:56,522
(CALIGULA) Don't go in there.
7
00:01:00,207 --> 00:01:04,280
To me, I was told it was "a classic serial."
8
00:01:04,447 --> 00:01:09,760
The BBC were doing, I think, perhaps
three or six a year. It was part of its remit.
9
00:01:09,927 --> 00:01:14,318
Martin Lisemore, the producer,
when he offered me I, Claudius,
10
00:01:14,487 --> 00:01:17,399
I was delighted
because I loved working with him.
11
00:01:17,567 --> 00:01:21,685
We first of all had to decide
who was going to write the series,
12
00:01:21,847 --> 00:01:27,160
and we decided, after some consultation
in which a number of writers featured,
13
00:01:27,327 --> 00:01:33,038
that we would use Jack Pulman - whom I also
knew because I'd worked with him before.
14
00:01:33,207 --> 00:01:35,926
I knew him to be a wonderful comic writer.
15
00:01:36,087 --> 00:01:40,842
I was very, very lucky in the actors
that I managed to get...
16
00:01:42,087 --> 00:01:44,282
to play the major roles.
17
00:01:44,447 --> 00:01:49,646
I thought for Augustus Caesar,
Paul Schofield or Alec Guinness.
18
00:01:49,807 --> 00:01:53,402
And so I met Herbie
and he'd sent me this big script
19
00:01:53,567 --> 00:01:57,606
and I thought it was probably Tiberius.
That's in my range. Tiberius.
20
00:01:57,767 --> 00:02:00,406
And he said,
"No. I want you to play Augustus."
21
00:02:00,567 --> 00:02:05,197
I wanted an authoritative person
and slightly ludicrous,
22
00:02:05,367 --> 00:02:07,835
because he was written pompously,
23
00:02:08,007 --> 00:02:11,283
and I was looking for an actor
who could actually do this.
24
00:02:11,447 --> 00:02:16,919
And, to me, he did it...
Brian did it marvellously.
25
00:02:17,087 --> 00:02:21,285
He said, "First and foremost,
my main note for you is this, Brian.
26
00:02:21,447 --> 00:02:25,326
"Just be as you are. Full of flannel.
27
00:02:27,367 --> 00:02:30,564
"But do not act being an emperor.
28
00:02:31,647 --> 00:02:37,165
"You must not act being an emperor at all.
I want you just to be an ordinary guy.
29
00:02:37,327 --> 00:02:40,637
"Everybody else
is going to make you an emperor."
30
00:02:40,807 --> 00:02:46,165
When we began to do this series,
we were all very, very shaky
31
00:02:46,327 --> 00:02:48,841
because we didn't know how to approach it.
32
00:02:49,007 --> 00:02:51,123
Our director knew how to approach it,
33
00:02:51,287 --> 00:02:55,883
but we all had our own ideas
about how we wanted to play our parts.
34
00:02:56,047 --> 00:02:59,483
What I wanted from Si�n was...
First, she was very beautiful,
35
00:02:59,647 --> 00:03:03,765
and that was a major consideration
in the way I saw the part.
36
00:03:03,927 --> 00:03:10,002
But allied to this beauty was this terrible...
I mean, this evil, evil woman.
37
00:03:10,167 --> 00:03:12,840
So you had the contrast of this.
38
00:03:13,007 --> 00:03:17,205
And I love, anyway,
the contrast of comedy and horror,
39
00:03:17,367 --> 00:03:22,316
which goes right through Claudius,
because the one bolsters the other.
40
00:03:22,487 --> 00:03:25,399
Here we have beauty against evil.
41
00:03:25,567 --> 00:03:33,360
And it was the concept of the evil
that Si�n found very difficult at first
42
00:03:33,527 --> 00:03:39,921
because she was trying to justify it
in modern psychological terms.
43
00:03:40,087 --> 00:03:42,647
In two weeks of rehearsal, we were dreadful.
44
00:03:42,807 --> 00:03:45,719
Si�n was all right. Derek was all right.
45
00:03:47,367 --> 00:03:50,882
George... I was the worst.
46
00:03:51,047 --> 00:03:54,403
We just couldn't do it. There's no reality.
47
00:03:54,567 --> 00:03:59,402
And they got Jack Pulman in and he said,
"I know exactly what you're going through.
48
00:03:59,567 --> 00:04:02,400
"I couldn't write it until I thought of the Mafia."
49
00:04:02,567 --> 00:04:08,039
Herbie said, "We are in a tremendous hurry
here. I know how this should be done.
50
00:04:08,207 --> 00:04:12,997
"I'm going to tell you how it should be done.
We don't have time for negotiation."
51
00:04:13,167 --> 00:04:18,195
So for the first week or so we were all
floundering about and not being very happy.
52
00:04:19,087 --> 00:04:24,207
And, suddenly... I played one scene
in what we called the family drawing room -
53
00:04:24,367 --> 00:04:26,403
that room the family used to sit in -
54
00:04:26,567 --> 00:04:33,359
and for the first time Jack and Herbert
looked pleased at the end of the scene.
55
00:04:33,527 --> 00:04:40,160
And suddenly I asked them,
"Is this a Jewish family comedy?"
56
00:04:40,327 --> 00:04:44,798
And one of them, I can't remember
which one, sort of nodded
57
00:04:44,967 --> 00:04:50,519
and said, "Yes. We didn't want to say that
to you, but that's a good thing to think of."
58
00:04:50,687 --> 00:04:54,726
I was as much at sea as everybody else,
trying to find the right style.
59
00:04:54,887 --> 00:04:57,321
Both Jack and I had an idea
of what we wanted,
60
00:04:57,487 --> 00:05:01,605
but to actually implement this
and persuade actors to do this...
61
00:05:01,767 --> 00:05:07,558
Eventually, when I found that Si�n
was floundering in trying to find the style,
62
00:05:07,727 --> 00:05:13,040
I was able to say to her, "Relish the evilness.
Don't justify it. Just be evil."
63
00:05:13,207 --> 00:05:18,281
I realised that one of the main characteristics
of the character
64
00:05:18,447 --> 00:05:24,238
was patience and vigilance
and, as you say, a hawkishness.
65
00:05:24,407 --> 00:05:28,195
And that was something that emerged
in the first few weeks
66
00:05:28,367 --> 00:05:34,556
and Herbie pointed it out to me and said that
was something I really needed to hang on to
67
00:05:34,727 --> 00:05:38,561
because it was very, very characteristic
of Livia.
68
00:05:38,727 --> 00:05:42,845
The more evil you are, the funnier it is
and the more terrifying it is
69
00:05:43,007 --> 00:05:46,841
because it's allied to this wonderful way
that you look
70
00:05:47,007 --> 00:05:50,397
and the ease and the softness
in which you deliver it all.
71
00:05:51,647 --> 00:05:55,720
She hooked on to that,
and once she got that, she was unstoppable.
72
00:05:55,887 --> 00:06:00,881
Mother, I'm a happily-married man.
Julia doesn't interest me.
73
00:06:01,047 --> 00:06:04,596
She wouldn't interest me if you hung her
naked above my bed.
74
00:06:04,767 --> 00:06:07,235
She might even do that if I asked her!
75
00:06:07,407 --> 00:06:12,720
Aren't you forgetting something? She's still
married to Marcellus and he's not dead yet.
76
00:06:12,887 --> 00:06:18,837
When I start to forget things, light my funeral
pyre and put me on it - dead or alive.
77
00:06:19,007 --> 00:06:22,556
We had an advisor on the series
called Robert Erskine,
78
00:06:22,727 --> 00:06:24,957
who was wonderfully helpful.
79
00:06:25,127 --> 00:06:30,121
Graves in his books has covered
the period when Augustus' supreme power -
80
00:06:30,287 --> 00:06:35,964
originally intended as temporary - was
becoming an hereditary dynasty of emperors,
81
00:06:36,127 --> 00:06:38,846
both good and bad, but mainly bad.
82
00:06:39,007 --> 00:06:44,365
And I shamelessly used him and turned
to him whenever I was in any doubt,
83
00:06:44,527 --> 00:06:48,486
particularly on the detail that was required.
84
00:06:48,647 --> 00:06:54,040
In the way people behaved, dressed,
wore jewellery, etcetera.
85
00:06:54,207 --> 00:06:59,281
On the first day, Robert Erskine was there
to answer any questions about the period.
86
00:06:59,447 --> 00:07:02,917
He mentioned the fact about servants.
87
00:07:03,087 --> 00:07:04,884
Someone brought it up.
88
00:07:05,047 --> 00:07:10,440
And he likened the servants in Roman times
to present-time machines.
89
00:07:10,607 --> 00:07:14,361
How should they behave
towards their slaves?
90
00:07:15,607 --> 00:07:18,838
Severely, do you think? With familiarity?
91
00:07:19,767 --> 00:07:21,962
Actually, I should think neither.
92
00:07:22,127 --> 00:07:28,316
I suspect they take no notice of them because
they were chattels to be bought or sold at will,
93
00:07:28,487 --> 00:07:30,443
like a dishwasher or a hat stand.
94
00:07:30,607 --> 00:07:35,601
Someone like Nero would probably have 250
servants who would do individual things
95
00:07:35,767 --> 00:07:40,124
like there'd be a slipper servant
or a shoe servant,
96
00:07:40,287 --> 00:07:44,519
then there'd be an underwear servant
and an outerwear servant.
97
00:07:44,687 --> 00:07:48,805
There'd be someone who did your hair
and put the flowers in your hair.
98
00:07:48,967 --> 00:07:53,165
There'd be someone who'd feed you
and someone who'd prepare your food.
99
00:07:53,327 --> 00:07:58,924
It just went on and on. Everything we take for
granted, there was someone to do it for you.
100
00:07:59,087 --> 00:08:02,636
You didn't say please or thank you to a slave.
101
00:08:02,807 --> 00:08:06,163
You just held out your cup and it's filled.
102
00:08:06,327 --> 00:08:11,162
I found it terribly difficult at first
to be so incredibly...
103
00:08:11,887 --> 00:08:14,276
rude, really, to the servants.
104
00:08:14,447 --> 00:08:19,646
We tend to say thank you or we at least look
at people when they do things for us.
105
00:08:19,807 --> 00:08:21,286
Oh!
106
00:08:22,807 --> 00:08:27,039
We must get Agrippa back. He's the only one
who speaks their language.
107
00:08:27,207 --> 00:08:34,158
In a rage and kicking trays out of the way,
slaves and servants all over the place.
108
00:08:34,327 --> 00:08:37,239
Herbie was very exasperated.
109
00:08:37,407 --> 00:08:42,925
He was saying, "No, Si�n! Beastly
to the servants! Be beastly to the servants!"
110
00:08:43,087 --> 00:08:45,601
Erskine was deeply involved, all the time.
111
00:08:45,767 --> 00:08:50,397
I'm not giving him credit.
He was outstanding and brilliant.
112
00:08:50,567 --> 00:08:52,558
I was a handful for him
113
00:08:52,727 --> 00:08:59,200
because I learned from him, I understood
the rules, and then slightly abused them.
114
00:08:59,367 --> 00:09:03,485
In those days, there was no such thing
as lavatory paper,
115
00:09:03,647 --> 00:09:07,879
so you ate with your...
I hope I've got this right.
116
00:09:08,047 --> 00:09:12,359
You ate with your right hand
because your left hand was used
117
00:09:12,527 --> 00:09:15,041
for what lavatory paper is used for.
118
00:09:15,207 --> 00:09:22,602
He would get very upset at times if I used
the wrong hand for eating my food.
119
00:09:22,767 --> 00:09:28,876
One hand is for wiping your arse and one
hand is for eating food, and I'd use both.
120
00:09:29,047 --> 00:09:31,242
I'd say, "I'm Caesar. I'll do what I like!"
121
00:09:31,407 --> 00:09:34,638
Now, that's a very Roman reaction,
it really is.
122
00:09:34,807 --> 00:09:38,720
I referred to him all the time.
I deeply respected him.
123
00:09:38,887 --> 00:09:43,961
He helped me enormously
with Augustus Caesar. He helped us all.
124
00:09:44,127 --> 00:09:47,437
I mean, terrific guy, terrific man.
125
00:09:49,287 --> 00:09:54,839
Herbie Wise absolutely swore by him. "Listen
to him. He knows what he's talking about."
126
00:09:55,007 --> 00:09:59,364
And he did, but now and again I had to make
certain things my soil. I was right to.
127
00:10:01,967 --> 00:10:04,845
(HERBERT WISE) I'd worked with Derek
on a series called Man Of Straw
128
00:10:05,007 --> 00:10:07,567
with Martin Lisemore, the same producer,
129
00:10:07,727 --> 00:10:13,643
and, at that time, he had just left
the National Theatre
130
00:10:13,807 --> 00:10:18,722
and his agent was looking for something else
and phoned Martin Lisemore.
131
00:10:18,887 --> 00:10:21,606
We were in distress about casting that part
132
00:10:21,767 --> 00:10:25,680
because the actor we'd originally thought of
wasn't good enough.
133
00:10:25,847 --> 00:10:28,042
We cast him and he was brilliant.
134
00:10:28,207 --> 00:10:30,482
I remember the phone ringing this time.
135
00:10:30,647 --> 00:10:36,961
I was about to play... We're talking 1976 now.
I was about to play Hamlet for the first time.
136
00:10:37,127 --> 00:10:43,202
My agent rang up and said,
"They're thinking of you for Claudius."
137
00:10:43,367 --> 00:10:45,483
I thought Claudius in Hamlet.
138
00:10:45,647 --> 00:10:50,596
I said, "I don't want to play Claudius.
I thought I was going to play Hamlet."
139
00:10:50,767 --> 00:10:53,998
"No, no," he said, "Claudius in I, Claudius."
140
00:10:54,167 --> 00:10:58,160
We were considering other actors
as well, in the nature of things.
141
00:10:58,327 --> 00:11:03,037
Also, we had to satisfy other people,
like London Films etcetera.
142
00:11:03,207 --> 00:11:07,325
I was way, way, way down the list
before they got to me.
143
00:11:07,487 --> 00:11:10,320
Lots of other actors had been thought of -
144
00:11:10,487 --> 00:11:13,365
Charlton Heston,
Ronnie Barker was another one -
145
00:11:13,527 --> 00:11:16,405
to play the older Claudius.
146
00:11:17,687 --> 00:11:24,160
And, I think, they... I came into the frame
147
00:11:24,327 --> 00:11:28,798
at the point they decided to have one actor
playing the young and the old.
148
00:11:28,967 --> 00:11:32,960
I was then taken out to supper
by the producer, the director,
149
00:11:33,127 --> 00:11:35,436
to meet a representative of London Films.
150
00:11:35,607 --> 00:11:39,964
And I had to charm him and persuade him
151
00:11:40,127 --> 00:11:45,326
that this nonentity he was having dinner with
could actually play the role of Claudius.
152
00:11:45,487 --> 00:11:52,563
That was the best part of my performance
in playing Claudius. That supper party.
153
00:11:52,727 --> 00:11:58,757
Anyway, next day, they said, we're going
to take a chance and we'll go with Derek.
154
00:11:58,927 --> 00:12:01,487
Derek and I worked very, very well together
155
00:12:01,647 --> 00:12:06,675
because I like to think that I am able
to get out of Derek
156
00:12:06,847 --> 00:12:10,203
what most other directors can't get out of him,
157
00:12:10,367 --> 00:12:14,679
and he responded wonderfully to the way
that I like to work.
158
00:12:14,847 --> 00:12:18,044
Well, Claudius was the arch survivor.
159
00:12:18,207 --> 00:12:24,157
He looked an idiot, but was more brilliant and
more intelligent than all the other characters.
160
00:12:24,327 --> 00:12:30,436
A man who faces life with a great deal
of disability to start with...
161
00:12:31,447 --> 00:12:36,601
placed in a family and a world
which increased those disabilities.
162
00:12:36,767 --> 00:12:39,804
It was a highly dangerous world
in which he existed.
163
00:12:39,967 --> 00:12:44,119
Do you think it's safe that Uncle Claudius
should be told my secret?
164
00:12:44,287 --> 00:12:46,437
Or are you going to poison him?
165
00:12:46,607 --> 00:12:48,598
Oh, he's quite safe.
166
00:12:48,767 --> 00:12:54,160
And remember this, monster. Your
Uncle Claudius here is a phenomenon.
167
00:12:54,327 --> 00:13:00,402
Because he's sworn to protect his brother's
children, he will never harm you.
168
00:13:00,567 --> 00:13:07,962
He managed to escape all the ramifications
and manipulations of Livia,
169
00:13:08,127 --> 00:13:11,961
and would flatter her when necessary,
170
00:13:12,127 --> 00:13:16,325
would duck and dive when he had to deal
with Caligula.
171
00:13:16,487 --> 00:13:19,126
All those dangerous things. A real politician.
172
00:13:24,367 --> 00:13:30,522
I hear you've written a book about religious
changes during the reign of Augustus.
173
00:13:30,687 --> 00:13:34,839
- Y-yes, G-Grandmother.
- You intend to give a public reading of it?
174
00:13:35,007 --> 00:13:37,601
- Y-yes, Grandmother.
- You'll do no such thing.
175
00:13:37,767 --> 00:13:39,837
N-no, G-Grandmother.
176
00:13:40,407 --> 00:13:46,084
It w-wasn't my idea.
G-Germanicus suggested it before he left.
177
00:13:46,247 --> 00:13:48,715
I won't have you making a laughing stock
of us.
178
00:13:48,887 --> 00:13:51,321
I'm b-b-b...
179
00:13:51,487 --> 00:13:54,126
better when I'm rehearsed.
180
00:13:54,287 --> 00:13:58,246
So is a trained monkey, but he still looks
and sounds like a monkey.
181
00:13:58,407 --> 00:14:00,238
Y-yes, Grandmother.
182
00:14:01,207 --> 00:14:07,157
He's clever enough to use his disabilities
rather than they used him,
183
00:14:07,327 --> 00:14:10,603
and through that use, manages to survive.
184
00:14:10,767 --> 00:14:14,282
Derek is, to me, one of these magical actors.
185
00:14:14,447 --> 00:14:19,999
Again, I owe him an immense debt
of gratitude for this performance.
186
00:14:20,167 --> 00:14:23,762
Claudius, do you bear me any ill will?
187
00:14:23,927 --> 00:14:26,521
Ill will? W-why should I?
188
00:14:26,687 --> 00:14:32,080
Oh, it's funny the way we can be so wrong
about people. I was wrong about you.
189
00:14:32,247 --> 00:14:34,636
We judge too much on appearances.
190
00:14:34,807 --> 00:14:38,720
I mean, your appearance is against you.
You know that, don't you?
191
00:14:38,887 --> 00:14:43,642
You give everybody the impression
you're a fool. No point in mincing matters.
192
00:14:43,807 --> 00:14:46,446
But you're not such a fool, are you?
193
00:14:46,927 --> 00:14:49,122
I h-hope not.
194
00:14:49,647 --> 00:14:54,960
There is a difference between a stutter
and a stammer, which I wasn't then aware of.
195
00:14:55,127 --> 00:15:00,804
A stutter is actually what it sounds like -
a stutter is an onomatopoeic word.
196
00:15:00,967 --> 00:15:05,836
It's like a machine gun which stutters,
and it is a repeat of...
197
00:15:06,007 --> 00:15:09,841
If you say please, it's p-p-p-p-please.
198
00:15:10,007 --> 00:15:15,445
But a stammer - an implosive stammer,
like Claudius had -
199
00:15:15,607 --> 00:15:19,395
is a much more difficult thing
in that you cannot get...
200
00:15:20,767 --> 00:15:22,997
t-the word out.
201
00:15:23,167 --> 00:15:25,158
You don't repeat, but you can't ...
202
00:15:25,327 --> 00:15:32,199
And sometimes the mouth will form and you
look as if you're going to say..."butter",
203
00:15:32,367 --> 00:15:35,120
and you're really trying to say "mother".
204
00:15:35,287 --> 00:15:39,519
So it's very difficult to help a stammerer
205
00:15:39,687 --> 00:15:43,600
because you don't know really
what they're trying to get out.
206
00:15:43,767 --> 00:15:48,363
- Livy called you Claudius.
- I'm Tiberius Claudius...
207
00:15:48,527 --> 00:15:50,757
D-Drusus Nero Germanicus.
208
00:15:50,927 --> 00:15:54,761
Oh, that Claudius.
They told me you were a halfwit.
209
00:15:55,727 --> 00:15:59,845
Well, my f-family's ashamed of me
because I st...
210
00:16:02,967 --> 00:16:04,286
stammer.
211
00:16:04,447 --> 00:16:12,127
The art director on I, Claudius, Tim Harvey,
had an assistant who had such a stammer,
212
00:16:12,287 --> 00:16:17,122
and I used to pin him against the wall
and get him to talk to me and then I'd copy it.
213
00:16:18,287 --> 00:16:20,847
Um, the... The limp,
214
00:16:21,007 --> 00:16:25,398
for the first few episodes,
I suppose, was the old stone in the shoe,
215
00:16:25,567 --> 00:16:29,196
so I could remember which foot
I was limping with.
216
00:16:29,367 --> 00:16:31,517
But I got rid of that after a while.
217
00:16:31,687 --> 00:16:35,965
Just as the BBC, when I got the first scripts,
218
00:16:36,127 --> 00:16:41,884
the stammer or the stutter was written in.
219
00:16:42,047 --> 00:16:46,962
So if the word "please" was written
in the script, it was written with six "ps".
220
00:16:47,127 --> 00:16:51,723
After a time they saved on typewriter ribbon
and let me get on with it myself.
221
00:16:51,887 --> 00:16:55,675
The twitch was something
that I didn't need help with.
222
00:16:56,807 --> 00:16:59,958
The stammer did stay with me a little bit,
yes, it did.
223
00:17:00,127 --> 00:17:03,881
Because the whole series took six months.
224
00:17:04,647 --> 00:17:10,244
It was 13 episodes, two weeks an episode,
26 weeks - stammering all the time.
225
00:17:10,407 --> 00:17:16,039
Yes, it did stay around for a little while
afterwards. It did, yes.
226
00:17:16,207 --> 00:17:20,405
I have since then played
two other stammering parts on stage.
227
00:17:20,567 --> 00:17:23,843
Word got around, I think, that...
228
00:17:24,007 --> 00:17:27,636
Apparently, an old lady said once,
in the interval,
229
00:17:27,807 --> 00:17:33,040
that it was so lovely that there was another
part that could accommodate my disability.
230
00:17:34,167 --> 00:17:38,319
The scene that I adored doing
231
00:17:38,487 --> 00:17:41,957
was the scene where I discover
that my daughter
232
00:17:42,127 --> 00:17:45,164
has been sleeping around
with lots of senators.
233
00:17:46,567 --> 00:17:49,877
(HERBERT WISE) He'd lined up
various lords and assistants
234
00:17:50,047 --> 00:17:54,199
and I followed him with the camera as
he says, ''Did you sleep with my daughter?''
235
00:17:54,367 --> 00:17:55,800
And they admit it.
236
00:17:55,967 --> 00:17:59,676
In the end, he never asked anything,
they just nodded.
237
00:17:59,847 --> 00:18:02,077
Have you slept with my daughter?
238
00:18:03,847 --> 00:18:06,805
- Caesar, I...
- Answer the question.
239
00:18:08,967 --> 00:18:10,446
Yes, Caesar...
240
00:18:10,607 --> 00:18:12,438
It's a terrifying scene
241
00:18:12,607 --> 00:18:15,201
because there you do see
the power of Caesar.
242
00:18:15,367 --> 00:18:20,282
All these senators - some of them his best
friends - have slept with his daughter,
243
00:18:20,447 --> 00:18:22,722
at orgies and all kinds of things.
244
00:18:22,887 --> 00:18:26,402
She's slept with hundreds.
That's what it implies.
245
00:18:26,567 --> 00:18:28,922
She's been sleeping with hundreds of men.
246
00:18:30,487 --> 00:18:32,478
Not slept, Caesar.
247
00:18:33,327 --> 00:18:34,965
Not slept?
248
00:18:35,127 --> 00:18:40,997
You mean it happened standing up,
or in the street or on a bench? Not slept.
249
00:18:45,167 --> 00:18:49,922
There were about ten or eleven actors
amongst them when we rehearsed,
250
00:18:50,087 --> 00:18:54,877
and then on the day we did it, they
introduced about seven or eight extras,
251
00:18:55,047 --> 00:18:57,322
and they'd not seen the scene.
252
00:18:57,487 --> 00:18:59,876
And we did this first take,
253
00:19:00,047 --> 00:19:04,040
and I've a sneaky feeling
that's not the tape you see.
254
00:19:04,887 --> 00:19:09,199
That's not the take you see,
but that's the best take.
255
00:19:09,367 --> 00:19:14,999
I went amongst them saying, "Have you
slept...? Standing up?" So and so...
256
00:19:15,167 --> 00:19:18,159
And they started to giggle
as I went down the line.
257
00:19:18,327 --> 00:19:21,125
Different ones started to giggle.
258
00:19:21,287 --> 00:19:27,760
And they knew they shouldn't giggle,
that they'd bollocks it up if they giggled -
259
00:19:28,647 --> 00:19:31,923
they'd get told off -
but they were finding it so funny.
260
00:19:35,367 --> 00:19:37,403
I did a second take,
261
00:19:37,567 --> 00:19:39,922
which is a wonderful take,
262
00:19:40,087 --> 00:19:45,844
and it's beautifully filmed, the cameras
pulling back, everybody in unison.
263
00:19:46,007 --> 00:19:50,319
It's a wonderful scene
and I suddenly end it by saying...
264
00:19:50,487 --> 00:19:54,446
Is there anyone in Rome
who has not slept with my daughter?!
265
00:19:54,607 --> 00:19:58,395
"Take them away!"
I mean, they're going to be vaporised.
266
00:19:58,567 --> 00:20:03,118
Take them out!
I'll decide what to do with them later!
267
00:20:08,207 --> 00:20:10,721
- Father...
- No, no! I'm all right.
268
00:20:10,887 --> 00:20:14,197
Then you see the power of Augustus.
269
00:20:14,367 --> 00:20:19,122
Then Herbie says, "Now you can turn it on.
Now you can turn it on, Brian."
270
00:20:22,807 --> 00:20:26,083
I shall banish her. Banish her for life.
271
00:20:26,247 --> 00:20:32,436
Don't tell me where she's gone, don't ever
mention her name, but let her be all alone.
272
00:20:32,607 --> 00:20:35,917
All alone until she dies!
She's not fit for human company!
273
00:20:38,607 --> 00:20:43,727
(HERBERT WISE) George playing Tiberius
had, in many ways, the most difficult task.
274
00:20:43,887 --> 00:20:46,879
He had the least spectacular part,
275
00:20:47,047 --> 00:20:50,164
if you think in terms
of what Caligula gets up to.
276
00:20:50,327 --> 00:20:53,000
I was playing at Stratford at the time,
277
00:20:53,167 --> 00:20:56,557
and these scripts arrived
and I couldn't believe my eyes,
278
00:20:56,727 --> 00:20:59,446
and, not unnaturally, I accepted.
279
00:20:59,607 --> 00:21:03,566
George was, I think, in his early 40s
at the time,
280
00:21:03,727 --> 00:21:08,323
but he had to go from the age of about 24 -
I can't remember now -
281
00:21:08,487 --> 00:21:10,955
to about 80 something in the story.
282
00:21:11,127 --> 00:21:16,406
I was then 42, and I went on
a very, very serious diet!
283
00:21:17,887 --> 00:21:21,197
No drink, no bread, no potatoes, nothing.
284
00:21:21,367 --> 00:21:28,284
I had a spaniel in those days and, every
morning, I would get up at 5.30, six o'clock,
285
00:21:28,447 --> 00:21:33,646
and run round Hyde Park, which is six miles -
right round the park and back home -
286
00:21:33,807 --> 00:21:39,962
then I'd get on a bicycle, cycle to the North
Kensington baths and swim 12 lengths,
287
00:21:40,127 --> 00:21:42,482
and then arrive at rehearsals!
288
00:21:42,647 --> 00:21:47,880
But I not only got the weight off,
but put the muscle back on,
289
00:21:48,047 --> 00:21:52,040
and I was exactly the same weight
as I was when I was 24.
290
00:21:52,887 --> 00:21:55,117
I must leave Rome.
291
00:21:55,967 --> 00:21:58,083
You'll stay.
292
00:21:58,807 --> 00:22:02,561
You'll have patience, as I have.
293
00:22:02,727 --> 00:22:05,446
Where has your patience got you?
294
00:22:05,607 --> 00:22:11,159
He was destined by his mother's force to
become Emperor,
295
00:22:11,327 --> 00:22:16,037
but he was not Emperor material,
nor did he want to be.
296
00:22:16,207 --> 00:22:19,961
(WISE) His mother was determined
to make him Emperor,
297
00:22:20,127 --> 00:22:23,722
and he had to follow her machinations
in order to get him there.
298
00:22:23,887 --> 00:22:29,996
Tiberius thinks that if he doesn't become
Emperor, his life will have been wasted.
299
00:22:30,167 --> 00:22:32,476
He's altered his will.
300
00:22:33,367 --> 00:22:38,521
What's the matter? Cat got your tongue?
That took your breath away, didn't it?
301
00:22:38,687 --> 00:22:40,120
He's a weak man
302
00:22:40,287 --> 00:22:44,678
because he actually wants,
desperately wants, people to like him.
303
00:22:44,847 --> 00:22:46,838
He wants his mother to love him.
304
00:22:47,007 --> 00:22:50,477
I must have been nodding
when I gave birth to you.
305
00:22:50,647 --> 00:22:57,485
He wants the respect from Augustus,
and he doesn't have it.
306
00:22:57,647 --> 00:23:01,322
I'm sick of it!
The gods know I've done my best!
307
00:23:01,807 --> 00:23:04,446
He never liked me! Never!
308
00:23:04,607 --> 00:23:07,724
30 years I've run his errands for him!
309
00:23:07,887 --> 00:23:11,926
I've fought on his bloody frontiers!
Collected his taxes!
310
00:23:12,087 --> 00:23:17,366
He's never put his hand on mine and said,
"Thank you. What would I do without you?"
311
00:23:17,527 --> 00:23:21,839
Now he sends me off to Illyricum
and doesn't even plan a farewell dinner.
312
00:23:22,007 --> 00:23:27,035
Not even a goodbye.
Just "get on your horse and ride!"
313
00:23:28,887 --> 00:23:31,037
Well, damn him!
314
00:23:31,207 --> 00:23:34,244
I retired before and I can retire again!
315
00:23:34,407 --> 00:23:38,286
Let his precious grandson
run his empire for him!
316
00:23:38,447 --> 00:23:41,245
I'm sick to death of it!
317
00:23:44,127 --> 00:23:49,645
But he doesn't say ''I want out
because you are a wicked old woman. ''
318
00:23:51,047 --> 00:23:54,084
He says he wants out
because nobody likes him.
319
00:23:54,607 --> 00:24:00,603
I had terrible trouble, really, keeping my face
straight with George Baker all the time.
320
00:24:00,767 --> 00:24:03,076
He was po-faced all the time.
321
00:24:03,247 --> 00:24:07,206
I had trouble keeping my face straight
with him and lots of scenes.
322
00:24:07,367 --> 00:24:11,360
Mark Antony was twice the man you are,
but when he spat on my sister,
323
00:24:11,527 --> 00:24:16,396
he learned a lesson that he didn't live long
enough to profit from. Do you understand?
324
00:24:16,567 --> 00:24:20,082
That wonderful moment
when I'm telling George off.
325
00:24:20,247 --> 00:24:22,238
"I don't want you seeing your wife."
326
00:24:22,407 --> 00:24:27,561
Right at the end of the scene when I've been
bollocking him for about ten pages
327
00:24:27,727 --> 00:24:33,199
and I'm easing down a bit now and I'm
not going to have him killed or anything.
328
00:24:33,367 --> 00:24:37,121
And I say, "I don't want you seeing your wife.
I don't like it."
329
00:24:37,287 --> 00:24:39,005
Just a little...
330
00:24:39,167 --> 00:24:44,560
And I could feel him contort his old stomach
so he didn't laugh.
331
00:24:44,727 --> 00:24:50,006
But Vipsania, I don't like it.
Do you understand? It's not right.
332
00:24:50,607 --> 00:24:54,839
You play fair with me and you'll see,
I can be generous too.
333
00:24:57,207 --> 00:24:58,720
Good.
334
00:25:00,207 --> 00:25:03,119
It's a lovely moment, isn't it? "Don't sulk!"
335
00:25:03,287 --> 00:25:06,245
You play fair with me, eh? Don't sulk!
336
00:25:07,847 --> 00:25:14,161
He can't stand him sulking all the time. We're
always on the edge of corpsing, of laughing.
337
00:25:14,327 --> 00:25:19,845
You wrote a letter in my name and yours
without even using the seal?
338
00:25:20,007 --> 00:25:24,478
You were away
and, anyway, you don't let me use the seal.
339
00:25:24,647 --> 00:25:26,683
Who's Emperor here, you or I?
340
00:25:26,847 --> 00:25:31,523
I remember the triumph that he felt...
341
00:25:32,407 --> 00:25:39,279
At last! But he's nearly in his 70s, you know,
and at last he's able to say to Livia,
342
00:25:39,447 --> 00:25:44,885
you're a stinking old rotten human being
and you've ruined my life!
343
00:25:45,047 --> 00:25:47,277
I'll tell you what I'm going to do.
344
00:25:47,607 --> 00:25:50,838
It's your letter. You stick to it.
345
00:25:51,727 --> 00:25:55,322
And if it's read in the House,
I'll deny all knowledge of it
346
00:25:55,487 --> 00:25:59,799
and excuse you
on the grounds of mental incompetence,
347
00:25:59,967 --> 00:26:03,721
brought on by extreme old age.
348
00:26:04,087 --> 00:26:08,683
I think the whole point of I, Claudius,
and why it's lasted so well,
349
00:26:08,847 --> 00:26:12,886
is because there is a tremendous amount
of humour.
350
00:26:13,047 --> 00:26:19,236
There's lots of humour in the Graves book
and Jack Pulman has kept it there.
351
00:26:19,407 --> 00:26:26,995
And the triumphant humour of being able
to score off his mother, at last, is wonderful.
352
00:26:27,167 --> 00:26:31,046
So long as you play it with that joy, you know.
353
00:26:31,207 --> 00:26:37,555
"You've left yourself open for the first time in
your life. I can really bang in there. I love it!"
354
00:26:51,887 --> 00:26:57,086
I enjoyed playing him very much indeed. But
something very silly... we had to do a retake
355
00:26:57,247 --> 00:27:00,796
because when I did one of the flips,
356
00:27:00,967 --> 00:27:09,079
the Marks and Spencer brand showed very,
very high on the underpants!
357
00:27:11,647 --> 00:27:14,764
Not quite Romanesque!
So we had to do that one again.
358
00:27:14,927 --> 00:27:17,157
I'll tell you something, Drusus.
359
00:27:17,327 --> 00:27:22,959
Sometimes I so hate myself,
I can't bear the thought of me anymore.
360
00:27:23,127 --> 00:27:25,482
I think it was one of the key scenes...
361
00:27:26,367 --> 00:27:31,077
when Tiberius really begins to know
362
00:27:31,247 --> 00:27:33,886
that he can't ever fight his mother...
363
00:27:35,607 --> 00:27:37,598
and that she is wicked.
364
00:27:37,767 --> 00:27:42,045
And he loves his brother
and he hates what's happened to him...
365
00:27:43,527 --> 00:27:51,878
and I think he says to his brother that he's
the only person that can lead him through.
366
00:27:54,887 --> 00:28:00,405
And Drusus was the only person
who knew of his dark nature.
367
00:28:01,647 --> 00:28:04,605
You don't know anything about darkness,
do you?
368
00:28:05,487 --> 00:28:09,116
Inside darkness. Blackness.
369
00:28:09,287 --> 00:28:12,404
Stop bragging.
I could match you black for black.
370
00:28:12,567 --> 00:28:15,764
Not you. Not you.
371
00:28:15,927 --> 00:28:20,603
They say the tree of the Claudians produces
two kinds of apples - sweet and sour.
372
00:28:20,767 --> 00:28:24,885
- That was never more true than you and me.
- And which is our mother?
373
00:28:25,047 --> 00:28:26,639
- Livia?
- Mmm.
374
00:28:26,807 --> 00:28:30,197
They say a snake bit her once...and died.
375
00:28:30,367 --> 00:28:33,165
Hey, hey. That's no longer funny.
376
00:28:36,647 --> 00:28:40,435
I've only cared for three people in my life.
One was our father.
377
00:28:40,607 --> 00:28:44,156
- He was the noblest of us all.
- Yes. The other was Vipsania.
378
00:28:44,327 --> 00:28:47,603
I was sorry about that.
Why did you divorce her?
379
00:28:47,767 --> 00:28:51,396
Livia insisted on it. Julia wanted it.
Augustus insisted on it.
380
00:28:51,567 --> 00:28:55,037
All the same. You were so happy.
You might have refused.
381
00:28:57,247 --> 00:29:00,284
Do you think the monarchy
will survive Augustus?
382
00:29:03,447 --> 00:29:08,885
No, I don't . Rome will be a republic again,
I promise you that.
383
00:29:11,407 --> 00:29:13,398
Perhaps I did it all for nothing.
384
00:29:13,567 --> 00:29:16,081
Tiberius worried about that dark nature.
385
00:29:16,247 --> 00:29:19,000
Herbie gave us all the space in the world.
386
00:29:19,167 --> 00:29:22,159
We did the whole fight
and the whole scene in one.
387
00:29:22,327 --> 00:29:24,283
And it was...
388
00:29:24,447 --> 00:29:31,683
Part of that was the lovely thing
about working in a studio...
389
00:29:32,927 --> 00:29:35,760
because we did have
these long, long scenes - almost like theatre.
390
00:29:38,407 --> 00:29:42,525
Caligula is one of the most bizarre,
flamboyant and cruel characters
391
00:29:42,687 --> 00:29:44,439
in the whole piece,
392
00:29:44,607 --> 00:29:51,365
and its realisation by John Hurt was nothing
short of miraculous and inspired.
393
00:29:51,527 --> 00:29:55,918
I've just been talking to that river god.
He threatened to drown me.
394
00:29:56,087 --> 00:29:57,918
Does he know who you are?
395
00:29:58,087 --> 00:30:01,557
He does now!
I've just given him a severe reprimand.
396
00:30:01,727 --> 00:30:04,605
When I first read it, I'd thought,
397
00:30:04,767 --> 00:30:11,115
"I don't believe the known world could possibly
have been led by a lunatic of this nature!"
398
00:30:11,287 --> 00:30:15,883
I think it must have been something to do
with the puritan upbringing that I had
399
00:30:16,047 --> 00:30:21,440
that would not allow my mind to think this was
a possibility, and I passed on it, basically.
400
00:30:21,607 --> 00:30:27,284
But Herbie Wise, who directed it wonderfully
- the wonderful Herbie Wise...
401
00:30:28,887 --> 00:30:33,403
who was the first director I ever worked with -
in 1961, I think it was.
402
00:30:35,487 --> 00:30:39,116
And he decided, because
of the fragmented nature of the piece
403
00:30:39,287 --> 00:30:42,279
and because people
weren't going to meet each other,
404
00:30:42,447 --> 00:30:48,886
rather than have a party at the end of the
series, he had a party at the beginning of it.
405
00:30:49,047 --> 00:30:51,163
And he invited me.
406
00:30:51,847 --> 00:30:58,241
And the atmosphere was so electric -
I can't tell you, it was so extraordinary -
407
00:30:58,407 --> 00:31:03,845
that I went up to Herbie in the middle
and said, "Could I change my mind?"
408
00:31:04,007 --> 00:31:07,204
And he said,
"I hoped that's what you might say."
409
00:31:07,407 --> 00:31:10,080
Your Emperor is amongst you once again.
410
00:31:11,287 --> 00:31:17,396
All his wars successfully concluded and
the victorious armies brought back to Rome.
411
00:31:19,607 --> 00:31:27,002
(WISE) He made me gasp with
astonishment and in awe of what he did.
412
00:31:27,167 --> 00:31:29,158
There was one scene with a long speech
413
00:31:29,327 --> 00:31:33,878
and when he'd done it, all the extras
in the studio applauded him.
414
00:31:34,047 --> 00:31:37,403
Not as characters, but as performers.
415
00:31:37,567 --> 00:31:40,001
And what did he find?
416
00:31:40,687 --> 00:31:45,477
This conqueror of the Germans,
this victor over the mighty Neptune?
417
00:31:46,967 --> 00:31:51,438
The streets empty of crowds and flowers,
no triumphs awarded,
418
00:31:51,607 --> 00:31:54,565
no games, no celebrations.
419
00:31:54,727 --> 00:31:59,926
But three miserable old ex-Consuls waiting
at the gates to greet him
420
00:32:00,087 --> 00:32:03,238
and a room
full of cowardly stay-at-home Senators,
421
00:32:03,407 --> 00:32:07,525
who spent all their time in the theatre
and in the baths
422
00:32:07,687 --> 00:32:12,761
while he has spent six months
living no better than a private soldier!
423
00:32:14,287 --> 00:32:16,278
There's a scene I was doing with Livia
424
00:32:16,447 --> 00:32:20,520
when I had to say goodbye, as it were,
to the wretched old hag.
425
00:32:20,687 --> 00:32:22,757
I hear you're dying, Great-grandmother.
426
00:32:22,927 --> 00:32:26,237
And I suggested that I got into bed with her.
427
00:32:26,407 --> 00:32:28,682
Herbie was not at all sure about this
428
00:32:28,847 --> 00:32:32,886
because then it was almost not allowed
to get into bed with your own wife.
429
00:32:33,047 --> 00:32:36,960
You could sit by the bed or on the bed,
but you couldn't be in bed.
430
00:32:37,127 --> 00:32:41,518
I think it was just post that,
but you had to be very careful on television.
431
00:32:41,687 --> 00:32:45,202
He said to me,
"I want to get into bed with her."
432
00:32:45,367 --> 00:32:49,280
And I was at first resisting it
and I said, "I don't think..."
433
00:32:49,447 --> 00:32:52,519
He said, "Please let me try it." So we tried it.
434
00:32:52,687 --> 00:32:57,807
You won't forget your promise, will you?
435
00:32:59,287 --> 00:33:01,357
To make you a goddess?
436
00:33:03,087 --> 00:33:07,285
What makes you think a filthy smelly old
woman like you could become a goddess?
437
00:33:09,527 --> 00:33:13,042
Anyway, we did it
and it was very successful, I think.
438
00:33:15,007 --> 00:33:17,362
Let me tell you something.
439
00:33:25,047 --> 00:33:28,039
Thrasyllus has made another prophecy.
440
00:33:29,167 --> 00:33:31,362
Told Tiberius.
441
00:33:31,767 --> 00:33:34,645
He said, one who is going to die soon
442
00:33:34,807 --> 00:33:38,004
will become the greatest god
the world has ever known.
443
00:33:38,167 --> 00:33:42,524
No temples will be dedicated
to anyone but him in the whole Roman world.
444
00:33:43,527 --> 00:33:45,563
Not even to Augustus.
445
00:33:47,007 --> 00:33:49,567
Do you know who that one is?
446
00:33:51,007 --> 00:33:52,599
Me.
447
00:33:54,447 --> 00:33:55,926
Me.
448
00:33:57,607 --> 00:34:00,485
I shall become the greatest god of all.
449
00:34:01,527 --> 00:34:06,476
And I shall look down on you suffering
all the torments of hell, and I shall say...
450
00:34:08,567 --> 00:34:14,005
"Leave her. Leave her there forever
and ever and ever."
451
00:34:24,807 --> 00:34:26,798
Goodbye, Great-grandmother.
452
00:34:26,967 --> 00:34:33,805
That scene was another example of the way
you're able to quickly achieve something
453
00:34:33,967 --> 00:34:40,805
relatively complex and unusual, maybe,
if you know the other person very well.
454
00:34:40,967 --> 00:34:45,995
John and I had been friends for years and
years, so we knew each other terribly well.
455
00:34:46,167 --> 00:34:48,920
That wonderful sun dance that he does.
456
00:34:49,087 --> 00:34:51,078
(CYMBALS CLASH)
457
00:34:52,447 --> 00:34:56,759
(JOHN HURT) I did the make-up myself
because I said it's got to be...
458
00:34:56,927 --> 00:35:01,523
The BBC make-up girls are wonderful,
I have to say,
459
00:35:01,687 --> 00:35:03,439
but they were being too tasteful.
460
00:35:03,607 --> 00:35:07,077
I said, "No. This has got to be
absolutely outrageous.
461
00:35:07,247 --> 00:35:12,321
"It's got to hit you immediately." It's image-
on-screen time. This is film, not literature.
462
00:35:12,487 --> 00:35:20,201
And um... So I really got the gold out
and it's totally outrageous make-up.
463
00:35:20,367 --> 00:35:23,086
(GENTLE MUSIC PLAYS)
464
00:35:25,687 --> 00:35:29,646
# And then she flits across the skies
from star to star about
465
00:35:29,807 --> 00:35:33,641
# She lightens darkness where she flies
and blows Night's candles out... #
466
00:35:33,807 --> 00:35:37,038
Watching Derek trying to deal with this
as Claudius
467
00:35:37,207 --> 00:35:40,756
and trying to be diplomatic
and know which way to go...
468
00:35:40,927 --> 00:35:44,237
because he had no idea
which way Caligula could turn.
469
00:35:44,407 --> 00:35:47,365
Was he to like it?
Was he to say it was ridiculous?
470
00:35:47,527 --> 00:35:51,122
Was he to say it was a little over the top?
471
00:35:51,287 --> 00:35:57,157
But, as always, Claudius chose
to virtually worship him,
472
00:35:57,327 --> 00:35:59,158
so therefore got away with it.
473
00:35:59,327 --> 00:36:02,000
But watching that going on
was hysterical too.
474
00:36:05,847 --> 00:36:08,884
Oh, god of gods!
475
00:36:09,047 --> 00:36:15,725
Never have I witnessed a dance
that gave me such p-profound s-spiritual joy.
476
00:36:16,687 --> 00:36:21,238
On the cruelty side was the thing
where he disembowels his half sister.
477
00:36:21,407 --> 00:36:28,995
He's so worried that the child of Zeus
might turn out to be greater than Zeus.
478
00:36:29,167 --> 00:36:33,718
And being as he is Zeus -
certainly in his mind...
479
00:36:34,687 --> 00:36:39,920
He always favoured the Greek rather than
the Roman gods, so he always used Zeus.
480
00:36:41,927 --> 00:36:48,400
In his deeply distorted mind,
he couldn't allow that to happen.
481
00:36:48,567 --> 00:36:53,595
- Who am I?
- Zeus, Lord of Heaven. My husband.
482
00:36:53,767 --> 00:36:57,396
- Who are you?
- The Queen of Heaven! Your wife.
483
00:36:57,567 --> 00:37:02,721
- Do you trust me?
- Oh, utterly, my lover, my lord.
484
00:37:02,887 --> 00:37:06,084
- There'll be no pain, I promise.
- Pain?
485
00:37:06,247 --> 00:37:11,765
Why, what do you want to do, my angel?
You know I can resist you nothing.
486
00:37:11,927 --> 00:37:14,725
(WISE) When you consider now
what you can do...
487
00:37:14,887 --> 00:37:17,640
The way I shot all this was from behind.
488
00:37:17,807 --> 00:37:20,799
She was kind of strung up in a bed.
She was naked.
489
00:37:20,967 --> 00:37:24,801
But I shot it all from behind,
so you didn't see what was happening.
490
00:37:24,967 --> 00:37:27,765
Tell the Queen
what her lord and master wants.
491
00:37:28,167 --> 00:37:34,356
I must draw the child from the Queen
of Heaven's womb and swallow it whole,
492
00:37:34,527 --> 00:37:37,963
so that a new child may grow
out of the head of Zeus.
493
00:37:38,127 --> 00:37:44,566
Yes, darling. Draw it out.
Let Zeus take the child and...
494
00:37:46,687 --> 00:37:48,882
Then let's go to bed.
495
00:37:49,487 --> 00:37:51,603
Your queen's very sleepy.
496
00:37:53,247 --> 00:37:56,523
What's that? What are you going to do?
497
00:37:57,527 --> 00:38:02,396
- There'll be no pain, I know it.
- Pain? But why should...?
498
00:38:02,567 --> 00:38:04,080
(POUNDING HOOVES)
499
00:38:04,247 --> 00:38:05,646
Caligula?
500
00:38:05,807 --> 00:38:09,083
We are immortal gods.
501
00:38:11,047 --> 00:38:13,402
(BLOODCURDLING SCREAM)
502
00:38:13,567 --> 00:38:17,560
The make-up girls were so busy
doing the make-up on her belly
503
00:38:17,727 --> 00:38:22,881
that there was nobody to look after John,
so I put the blood on John's mouth
504
00:38:23,047 --> 00:38:27,882
and did John's make-up ready for him
to open the door and for me to see him.
505
00:38:28,047 --> 00:38:31,278
You saw some blood on the face of Caligula
506
00:38:31,447 --> 00:38:37,238
and then when Claudius opens the door,
I never actually showed what he saw
507
00:38:37,407 --> 00:38:41,480
because the suggestion of what he saw
was more powerful
508
00:38:41,647 --> 00:38:43,126
than the thing itself.
509
00:38:43,287 --> 00:38:46,643
But I'm afraid it got -
again I use the word - butchered,
510
00:38:46,807 --> 00:38:52,439
by people who ought to have known better,
and the scene now is somewhat attenuated.
511
00:38:52,607 --> 00:38:55,883
It is a great regret
because I haven't got the original.
512
00:38:56,327 --> 00:38:58,363
Don't go in there.
513
00:39:00,287 --> 00:39:02,801
Don't go in there.
514
00:39:25,207 --> 00:39:28,165
(CLAUDIUS THEME PLAYS)
515
00:39:28,327 --> 00:39:33,196
There were concerns about it - concerns
that it would be too powerful or too strong.
516
00:39:33,367 --> 00:39:36,120
It was shown in England, but not in America -
517
00:39:36,287 --> 00:39:40,041
the scene where he comes out of the room
with his false beard,
518
00:39:40,207 --> 00:39:43,961
which he'd put on to be like Zeus
for the ritual. He'd made it into a ritual.
519
00:39:46,567 --> 00:39:53,598
May I inquire what is the...c-character
of this g-glorious change
520
00:39:53,767 --> 00:39:56,884
which has c-come over you?
521
00:39:59,527 --> 00:40:01,802
Isn't it obvious?
522
00:40:07,847 --> 00:40:12,443
Y-you've become a god!
523
00:40:14,247 --> 00:40:15,999
Oh, my god!
524
00:40:16,167 --> 00:40:22,436
Oh, let me worship you!
Oh, how could I have been so blind!
525
00:40:23,407 --> 00:40:26,922
I am still in mortal disguise,
that wouldn't help you.
526
00:40:27,087 --> 00:40:32,559
The whole concept is grotesque,
but at the same time extremely funny.
527
00:40:32,727 --> 00:40:37,039
Suddenly, this man is in front of him
who's discovered that he's a god.
528
00:40:37,847 --> 00:40:42,238
I always knew that this would happen.
I always knew that I was divine.
529
00:40:42,407 --> 00:40:48,323
Think. When I was two, I put down a mutiny
in my father's army and so saved Rome.
530
00:40:48,487 --> 00:40:53,197
- That was prodigious.
- Like the stories they tell of Mercury.
531
00:40:53,367 --> 00:40:58,122
Or Hercules who strangled snakes
in his cradle.
532
00:40:58,287 --> 00:41:02,121
Exactly. Only Mercury only stole a few oxen.
533
00:41:02,287 --> 00:41:06,041
Whereas by the age of ten,
I'd already killed my father.
534
00:41:06,207 --> 00:41:09,722
- You didn't know that, did you?
- N-no.
535
00:41:11,247 --> 00:41:12,965
Divinity...
536
00:41:14,167 --> 00:41:17,637
Even Jove didn't do that.
He merely banished the old man.
537
00:41:17,807 --> 00:41:22,835
Why, if you don't mind my asking,
d-did you do that?
538
00:41:23,167 --> 00:41:25,397
Well, he stood in my way.
539
00:41:25,567 --> 00:41:32,359
Me, a young god! He tried to discipline me.
So I frightened him to death in Antioch.
540
00:41:32,527 --> 00:41:37,078
So it was you who did all that?
Quite incredible.
541
00:41:37,247 --> 00:41:40,523
No, not at all. For a god, it was very simple.
542
00:41:40,887 --> 00:41:45,836
At the same time as being extremely funny
as a concept...
543
00:41:46,727 --> 00:41:52,324
it's extremely dangerous too and it's a very
interesting thing to be able to play with that.
544
00:41:57,287 --> 00:42:02,407
That scene was important. They just
pounced on him and knifed him to death.
545
00:42:04,327 --> 00:42:06,363
What's this?
546
00:42:07,287 --> 00:42:10,484
The watchword, butcher, is "Liberty!"
547
00:42:10,647 --> 00:42:12,444
Oh, no! Aaagh!
548
00:42:12,607 --> 00:42:15,041
(POUNDING ON DOOR)
549
00:42:15,207 --> 00:42:18,882
I'm a god! I'm a god! You can't kill me!
550
00:42:19,327 --> 00:42:23,684
Good taste for the BBC was putting all sorts
of funny plastic bands down me,
551
00:42:23,847 --> 00:42:28,045
so if I squeezed it
a dribble of blood would come out and...
552
00:42:29,487 --> 00:42:34,197
So I said, "No, no. This has got
to really happen all at once."
553
00:42:34,367 --> 00:42:39,122
So I got them to put a whole pouch of blood
here and played the scene quite carefully
554
00:42:39,287 --> 00:42:42,165
because I had a loose chemise thing on top.
555
00:42:42,967 --> 00:42:45,322
And er... Or was it a toga I was wearing then?
556
00:42:45,487 --> 00:42:48,604
It had to come through that,
so you needed a lot of blood.
557
00:42:48,767 --> 00:42:55,957
So that when I did actually go
to hold my guts...as it were,
558
00:42:56,127 --> 00:42:59,324
all the blood came out
and came through the white
559
00:42:59,487 --> 00:43:01,796
and gave it an immediate impact.
560
00:43:04,287 --> 00:43:07,040
I think we were proved right. It needed that.
561
00:43:11,207 --> 00:43:12,606
Drusilla!
562
00:43:13,967 --> 00:43:16,640
I'm dying!
563
00:43:16,807 --> 00:43:20,004
Drusilla!
564
00:43:20,847 --> 00:43:25,045
- Strong stuff.
- There is a very nasty side to me, I think!
565
00:43:25,207 --> 00:43:27,277
All of that comes out in Nero.
566
00:43:27,447 --> 00:43:32,316
I mean, he was a spoilt child
567
00:43:32,487 --> 00:43:37,117
who got everything that he ever wanted,
including becoming Emperor,
568
00:43:37,287 --> 00:43:41,724
and he just misused everything
that he was given.
569
00:43:41,887 --> 00:43:43,878
If he wanted something, I mean...
570
00:43:44,047 --> 00:43:49,167
One of the big things in the particular episode
571
00:43:49,327 --> 00:43:52,956
was that I couldn't have a girl
that I wanted...
572
00:43:53,487 --> 00:43:57,275
and so my mother gives herself to me.
573
00:43:57,447 --> 00:44:01,486
I mean, that is the ultimate sacrifice
of any mother, surely!
574
00:44:01,647 --> 00:44:07,119
Her little boy is sexually aroused and the girl
doesn't want him, so she gives herself.
575
00:44:07,287 --> 00:44:09,721
My poor baby.
576
00:44:10,887 --> 00:44:14,880
It's not fair, is it?
To lock you out of your room.
577
00:44:15,687 --> 00:44:19,521
And you, the Emperor Elect.
578
00:44:20,807 --> 00:44:24,436
But then she's only your wife.
579
00:44:25,447 --> 00:44:28,837
She doesn't feel for you as a mother would.
580
00:44:30,487 --> 00:44:33,445
A mother knows how her baby feels.
581
00:44:34,327 --> 00:44:35,840
Yes.
582
00:44:37,287 --> 00:44:39,926
She wouldn't let him be unhappy.
583
00:44:40,887 --> 00:44:42,445
No.
584
00:44:43,727 --> 00:44:45,160
No.
585
00:44:46,127 --> 00:44:47,845
Never.
586
00:44:49,327 --> 00:44:50,919
Never.
587
00:44:53,607 --> 00:44:55,325
Oh...
588
00:44:56,647 --> 00:44:59,844
I'm so sleepy.
589
00:45:11,167 --> 00:45:14,000
When I realised
that I was going to play the part,
590
00:45:14,167 --> 00:45:17,637
I then went, in fact, to Greece on a holiday
591
00:45:17,807 --> 00:45:21,686
and I took the books with me
and read them on a Greek island.
592
00:45:21,847 --> 00:45:27,240
So I was able to soak up all the atmosphere
that I could possibly want to soak up
593
00:45:27,407 --> 00:45:30,843
and when we filmed it, it sort of helped.
It was great.
594
00:45:32,087 --> 00:45:34,760
I'm sorry to have been the cause of that.
595
00:45:34,927 --> 00:45:37,600
It's not your fault. Everyone could see that.
596
00:45:37,767 --> 00:45:42,841
Nevertheless, I'll go and see him. Come,
Octavia. Let's go and find your brother.
597
00:45:43,007 --> 00:45:46,602
- Perhaps we can pacify him.
- I think you're very kind.
598
00:45:46,767 --> 00:45:49,327
There's too little kindness in the world.
599
00:45:49,487 --> 00:45:53,400
I was dressed head to toe in raw silk.
600
00:45:53,567 --> 00:45:57,685
Incredible amounts of it
because he's a big character.
601
00:45:57,847 --> 00:46:04,400
It was just wonderful and the wardrobe
people really went into everything.
602
00:46:04,567 --> 00:46:07,525
We had these undergarments,
then we had the top
603
00:46:07,687 --> 00:46:11,316
and we had then swathes of material
going round us.
604
00:46:11,487 --> 00:46:16,686
And they used my own hair, which
they curled every day in the studio.
605
00:46:16,847 --> 00:46:20,726
It took hours.
They had these special curling tongs.
606
00:46:20,887 --> 00:46:26,280
And then I had fresh flowers
put into my hair every day.
607
00:46:26,447 --> 00:46:30,599
They had to, obviously, match them up
with the previous day's filming.
608
00:46:33,247 --> 00:46:39,561
During this episode, we had a producer's run.
Not only that, but we had a dream sequence
609
00:46:39,727 --> 00:46:44,164
where they had all the stars of the series,
who were by this time dead -
610
00:46:44,327 --> 00:46:47,364
like Si�n Philips and John Hurt
611
00:46:47,527 --> 00:46:51,839
and Brian Blessed and Maggie Tyzack
and George Baker.
612
00:46:52,007 --> 00:46:54,521
They all came back to do
this dream sequence.
613
00:46:54,687 --> 00:46:57,599
They came to the producer's run
and sat in a line.
614
00:46:57,767 --> 00:47:02,124
Before we started the run, they were laughing
and as high as kites
615
00:47:02,287 --> 00:47:04,642
because the series was now a big success.
616
00:47:04,807 --> 00:47:09,801
And they sat there in a line,
these five, six really big actors
617
00:47:09,967 --> 00:47:13,926
and I said to Barbara Young,
"This is the most terrifying thing."
618
00:47:14,087 --> 00:47:19,480
So we gripped ourselves and did the run
and, thankfully, the run was wonderful.
619
00:47:19,647 --> 00:47:25,802
Every time we finished a scene, I glanced
over to look at these six, seven actors,
620
00:47:25,967 --> 00:47:31,803
thinking any minute now they'll put
their hands up with 4.6 or 5.7
621
00:47:31,967 --> 00:47:37,200
like marking ice skaters. Thankfully, they
didn't . They were very complimentary.
622
00:47:37,367 --> 00:47:40,837
I remember when we did,
I think, one of the first scenes.
623
00:47:41,007 --> 00:47:45,080
We had to be very, very young.
624
00:47:45,247 --> 00:47:51,482
I don't think Herbie knows this, but he had us
in a massage scene, lying on our fronts.
625
00:47:51,647 --> 00:47:53,797
I thought to myself, now...
626
00:47:54,727 --> 00:48:00,438
Both of us - myself and the other girl - were
just a fraction too old for the very young bits,
627
00:48:00,607 --> 00:48:05,556
so I said, "If we lie on our backs,
everything will fall back and we'll look better."
628
00:48:10,047 --> 00:48:15,167
To tell you the truth, it's crossed my mind
that Livia might have had a hand in that.
629
00:48:15,887 --> 00:48:18,321
- Julia!
- Well, I might be wrong,
630
00:48:18,487 --> 00:48:23,720
but he was a healthy man who'd never had
a serious illness till she got her hands on him.
631
00:48:23,887 --> 00:48:28,563
A particular example of the strength
of Antonia
632
00:48:28,727 --> 00:48:35,405
is in the scene where she's decided that
her daughter's behaviour is so abhorrent...
633
00:48:36,607 --> 00:48:41,601
that she walls her up - locks her in, walls
her up and leaves her in her room to die.
634
00:48:41,767 --> 00:48:43,246
Mother!
635
00:48:43,407 --> 00:48:46,160
Let me out! Let me out!
636
00:48:46,887 --> 00:48:48,957
Let me out!
637
00:48:50,247 --> 00:48:51,646
(BANGING)
638
00:48:51,807 --> 00:48:54,924
Let me out! Let me out!
639
00:49:03,487 --> 00:49:05,478
What are you doing?
640
00:49:05,647 --> 00:49:08,719
What are you going to d-do with her?
641
00:49:11,807 --> 00:49:17,962
But she sits outside the room
and hears the cries of the girl inside.
642
00:49:18,687 --> 00:49:24,205
Claudius comes along and says,
"Mother, Mother, you've got to let her out."
643
00:49:24,367 --> 00:49:27,279
I say, "No, I won't. That's her punishment."
644
00:49:27,447 --> 00:49:32,441
And then Claudius says to me,
"How can you bear it, Mother?"
645
00:49:32,607 --> 00:49:36,566
And she replies, "And that's mine."
646
00:49:37,527 --> 00:49:39,006
My punishment.
647
00:49:39,167 --> 00:49:43,319
For heaven's sake, let her out.
How long are you going to leave her in there?
648
00:49:43,487 --> 00:49:46,285
- Until she dies.
- Dies?
649
00:49:47,327 --> 00:49:48,885
Dies?
650
00:49:49,047 --> 00:49:53,757
H-have you gone mad? She's your daughter.
How can you leave her to die?
651
00:49:53,927 --> 00:49:58,364
- That's her punishment.
- How can you bear to sit and listen to her?
652
00:49:58,527 --> 00:50:01,678
And that's mine. Leave me, Claudius.
653
00:50:01,847 --> 00:50:05,806
I shan't move from here
until they open that door and find her dead.
654
00:50:06,887 --> 00:50:08,320
Leave me.
655
00:50:09,087 --> 00:50:10,679
Oh, no.
656
00:50:11,567 --> 00:50:13,205
No!
657
00:50:15,407 --> 00:50:21,084
I remember her last scene with Claudius,
where she says she's going to kill herself.
658
00:50:21,247 --> 00:50:24,876
But we have to remember
that she lived in a time
659
00:50:25,047 --> 00:50:30,599
where no one had said
that this was a sin in any way.
660
00:50:30,767 --> 00:50:32,359
I'm joining your father.
661
00:50:36,447 --> 00:50:39,962
- What do you mean?
- I'm going to kill myself.
662
00:50:40,127 --> 00:50:44,962
But as a Roman matron, she had decided
that she no longer wanted to live
663
00:50:45,127 --> 00:50:51,566
in this hideous state
with these murderous, poisonous people.
664
00:50:52,887 --> 00:50:55,526
- But you can't .
- Oh, yes, I can.
665
00:50:55,687 --> 00:51:00,886
My life's my own. It'll be a welcome release.
I've no wish to go on living in this place.
666
00:51:01,047 --> 00:51:06,075
- You don't have to pretend you'll miss me.
- Of course I'll miss you.
667
00:51:06,247 --> 00:51:11,844
And dear Claudius, as usual,
was very, very, very upset
668
00:51:12,007 --> 00:51:15,841
that his mother had said,
"That's what I'm going to do,
669
00:51:16,007 --> 00:51:18,885
"and you, as my son,
will have to remove my hand."
670
00:51:19,047 --> 00:51:22,642
That showed people
that you had died by your own hand
671
00:51:22,807 --> 00:51:26,117
when you went to your reward -
whatever that might have been.
672
00:51:26,287 --> 00:51:32,203
And, remember, cut off my hand
for separate burial for this will be suicide.
673
00:51:32,367 --> 00:51:34,358
It'll be just like you to forget.
674
00:51:34,527 --> 00:51:37,485
And he said, "I can't . I can't bear it."
675
00:51:37,647 --> 00:51:40,844
And she says, "Yes, you can.
You'd survive the Flood."
676
00:51:41,007 --> 00:51:47,799
So she was quite prophetic. She actually, in
the end, knew his strength, knew his mettle.
677
00:51:47,967 --> 00:51:49,958
You may kiss me.
678
00:51:51,647 --> 00:51:53,365
Oh, Mother.
679
00:52:00,007 --> 00:52:02,475
When the series finished,
it was a great success -
680
00:52:02,647 --> 00:52:06,481
though not initially, the critics were,
I think, lukewarm,
681
00:52:06,647 --> 00:52:09,115
but then it became a great success.
682
00:52:09,287 --> 00:52:13,644
And then they had a luncheon
for all the Caesars - Martin Lisemore.
683
00:52:14,727 --> 00:52:19,198
And Martin Lisemore said, "Well, Brian..."
when we'd had this luncheon.
684
00:52:19,367 --> 00:52:24,919
"We've pulled it off. It's a great success.
We've beaten that bloody curse!"
685
00:52:25,087 --> 00:52:30,161
It was a great tragedy that Martin, who was...
686
00:52:30,327 --> 00:52:34,559
Martin was killed soon after
I, Claudius went on the air.
687
00:52:34,727 --> 00:52:39,243
Martin had wonderful qualities for me,
as a director.
688
00:52:39,407 --> 00:52:44,356
He provided the backup and the support...
689
00:52:44,967 --> 00:52:48,357
and the belief in you
and the work that you were doing.
690
00:52:49,087 --> 00:52:55,196
And people pointed out to me - because there
had been stories of a curse on I, Claudius -
691
00:52:55,407 --> 00:52:57,443
this was one of the things.
692
00:52:57,607 --> 00:53:01,885
But this was compounded, of course,
when only about three months further on,
693
00:53:02,047 --> 00:53:04,959
Jack Pulman died of a heart attack, aged 52.
694
00:53:05,767 --> 00:53:10,283
I remember both Derek and I talking
on the phone, listening to each other...
695
00:53:10,447 --> 00:53:13,166
looking at each other - not over the phone,
696
00:53:13,327 --> 00:53:17,684
but saying,
"Maybe we are number three in line."
697
00:53:17,847 --> 00:53:21,635
And at another party that I didn't go to,
I kept away from it...
698
00:53:23,487 --> 00:53:27,196
an extra died at the party,
choking on his food.
699
00:53:27,367 --> 00:53:32,282
So there was always something
about Claudius, about the whole thing.
700
00:53:32,447 --> 00:53:35,041
I looked upon it, with the writer,
701
00:53:35,207 --> 00:53:39,359
like looking through a keyhole
at the events going on in this family.
702
00:53:39,527 --> 00:53:42,439
Part of the thing was
that it was a huge flashback.
703
00:53:42,607 --> 00:53:47,078
Claudius was writing his memoirs,
704
00:53:47,247 --> 00:53:52,844
and I kept cutting back to him
to remind us that he's actually an old man,
705
00:53:53,007 --> 00:53:58,206
reviewing his life and the events in it,
and passing some sort of judgment on it.
706
00:53:58,367 --> 00:54:02,599
I, Tiberius Claudius...
707
00:54:03,087 --> 00:54:07,160
Drusus Nero Germanicus...
708
00:54:08,567 --> 00:54:10,876
this, that and the other...
709
00:54:11,647 --> 00:54:14,366
who was once and not so long ago
710
00:54:14,527 --> 00:54:19,043
better known to my friends and relatives
as Claudius the Idiot,
711
00:54:19,207 --> 00:54:24,201
or ''that fool Claudius'',
or Claudius the Stammerer -
712
00:54:25,047 --> 00:54:29,677
am now about to write
this strange history of my life.
713
00:54:29,847 --> 00:54:35,524
With me, the camera is always an actor.
It's very, very rarely an observer.
714
00:54:35,687 --> 00:54:42,525
And I tend to shoot all my stuff like that,
but it particularly paid off in I, Claudius
715
00:54:42,687 --> 00:54:47,363
because the camera could tell the story
as much as an actor could tell the story.
716
00:54:47,527 --> 00:54:51,645
It contributed as much
because you can tell so much more
717
00:54:51,807 --> 00:54:56,164
in a camera movement or in a sudden cut
to a close-up than you can do in words.
718
00:54:56,327 --> 00:54:58,761
You used to dance with your cameraman.
719
00:54:58,927 --> 00:55:06,607
You had camera five, for instance, and he
had to crab across and you went with him.
720
00:55:06,767 --> 00:55:08,837
It was a wonderful relationship.
721
00:55:09,007 --> 00:55:13,922
I have to pay credit to the camera crew, to Jim
Atkinson, who was my senior cameraman,
722
00:55:14,087 --> 00:55:20,003
who did most of the work that I ever did at the
BBC over many years, and who was brilliant.
723
00:55:20,167 --> 00:55:24,604
There was a wonderful rapport
between yourself and the camera.
724
00:55:24,767 --> 00:55:28,555
The cameras were dancing and so were you.
725
00:55:28,727 --> 00:55:33,005
(WISE) He and his crew
did the most wonderful work on this,
726
00:55:33,167 --> 00:55:37,558
and they stayed with me throughout
the 13 hours - every single shot.
727
00:55:37,727 --> 00:55:41,402
He supervised it all.
And his influence, his insistence...
728
00:55:41,567 --> 00:55:45,526
He was almost a fanatic
about the way cameras should be used.
729
00:55:45,687 --> 00:55:49,680
The way he used the pedestal cameras
was very, very unusual -
730
00:55:49,847 --> 00:55:52,600
different, I think, from all other cameramen.
731
00:55:52,767 --> 00:55:58,558
He actually got criticism from other
cameramen, but I thought he was brilliant.
732
00:56:07,487 --> 00:56:10,718
(JOHN HURT) Because of the way
we rehearsed it and shot it.
733
00:56:10,887 --> 00:56:16,007
It was a ten-day turnover, but it was
rehearsed like a play. It wasn't shot like a film.
734
00:56:16,167 --> 00:56:21,161
In a studio, it's all make-believe.
A great reality took place.
735
00:56:21,327 --> 00:56:26,560
A great concentration, like in here now.
I love television sets.
736
00:56:30,327 --> 00:56:31,646
Claudius!
737
00:56:31,807 --> 00:56:33,798
It was a wonderful company.
738
00:56:33,967 --> 00:56:40,406
We had more fun on that.
There wasn't any bickering, no backbiting.
739
00:56:40,567 --> 00:56:44,003
Derek was a wonderful leading man.
740
00:56:44,887 --> 00:56:50,484
And Herbie was... Well, a tremendous
director. He directed it beautifully.
741
00:56:50,647 --> 00:56:54,401
We had the limitations of the studio
for the Senate,
742
00:56:54,567 --> 00:56:57,525
so we had to build sections of it.
743
00:56:57,687 --> 00:57:02,477
Like the Coliseum when they were watching
the Christians being put to the lions -
744
00:57:02,647 --> 00:57:05,798
not only Claudius,
but they were all watching it -
745
00:57:05,967 --> 00:57:11,599
all I did was the box that they were sitting
in and did the rest with sound effects.
746
00:57:11,767 --> 00:57:14,235
(CROWD ROARS)
747
00:57:15,607 --> 00:57:19,566
I don't think you could get away with that now,
but you could then,
748
00:57:19,727 --> 00:57:22,195
and that's all I could afford.
749
00:57:22,367 --> 00:57:27,964
I managed to show sections of the Senate,
where necessary,
750
00:57:28,127 --> 00:57:30,561
and make it look bigger than it actually was.
751
00:57:30,727 --> 00:57:36,757
We did things like that all the time - 20 people
to look like 200 and things like that.
752
00:57:36,927 --> 00:57:43,446
Well done, Claudius. Emperor after all.
Who would have thought it, eh?
753
00:57:43,607 --> 00:57:46,724
Fifteen extras. That's all.
754
00:57:47,567 --> 00:57:52,721
And when you look at it, it's looks
as if there's about 150 people there.
755
00:57:52,887 --> 00:57:55,526
Herbie knew what he was doing
with his camera
756
00:57:55,687 --> 00:58:00,556
and knew how to shoot it so it looked as if
you were outside, but you were in the studio.
757
00:58:00,727 --> 00:58:05,198
And Tim Harvey, our designer,
was equally brilliant.
758
00:58:05,367 --> 00:58:09,201
The BBC had a wonderful, wonderful
make-up department.
759
00:58:09,367 --> 00:58:16,125
The wigs and the old-age make-up
took hours and hours and hours to put on.
760
00:58:16,287 --> 00:58:20,997
It took about five hours, I think,
to get made up as the old Livia.
761
00:58:21,167 --> 00:58:26,036
So it was quite a process
and it made the days very, very long.
762
00:58:26,207 --> 00:58:31,884
But it was immensely helpful, of course,
because once all that latex is on your face,
763
00:58:32,047 --> 00:58:34,607
you don't recognise yourself at all.
764
00:58:34,767 --> 00:58:37,281
It was the first time I'd worn these masks
765
00:58:37,447 --> 00:58:42,726
and they were the best that technology could
provide at that time. They were very good.
766
00:58:42,887 --> 00:58:46,243
The make-up in I, Claudius
I never came to terms with.
767
00:58:46,407 --> 00:58:50,923
On Claudius, for the first time,
we had these sort of prosthetics.
768
00:58:51,087 --> 00:58:57,196
These sort of pieces of plastic that sort
of stuck all over your face. I never liked them.
769
00:58:57,367 --> 00:59:00,040
They don't use it now.
It was something they tried.
770
00:59:00,207 --> 00:59:03,677
I mean, Pam Meager... All the girls...
771
00:59:03,847 --> 00:59:09,205
I remember one moment particularly -
it was in episode four - in which I do my nut.
772
00:59:09,367 --> 00:59:11,961
He'll move when he judges the army ready.
773
00:59:12,127 --> 00:59:15,961
He'll move now! And I'll send Postumus
with an army to make sure.
774
00:59:16,127 --> 00:59:18,163
I think that wouldn't be wise.
775
00:59:19,647 --> 00:59:22,161
I make the military decisions, not you!
776
00:59:22,327 --> 00:59:24,841
There's no need to lose your temper.
777
00:59:25,007 --> 00:59:30,035
And then I'm blotting things and ink's falling
all over the desk and "Oh, god!"
778
00:59:30,207 --> 00:59:33,802
and he's in a terrible mood,
racing up and down,
779
00:59:33,967 --> 00:59:35,958
and my make-up was falling off.
780
00:59:38,527 --> 00:59:41,280
The taking-off process was as hazardous
781
00:59:41,447 --> 00:59:47,966
because we took it off sort of gradually
with spirit remover.
782
00:59:48,127 --> 00:59:53,679
Because it was all stuck on with spirit gum,
which smells...is disgusting stuff
783
00:59:53,847 --> 00:59:55,917
and you have it in every orifice.
784
00:59:56,087 --> 01:00:03,402
Of course, during the day you can only suck
soup through a straw, or milk through a straw.
785
01:00:04,927 --> 01:00:09,557
Constantly, during the filming,
the make-up girl was rushing at me
786
01:00:09,727 --> 01:00:13,606
because my lips would be cracking
or my nose would be coming off,
787
01:00:13,767 --> 01:00:17,123
and it all had to be stuck on again constantly.
788
01:00:17,287 --> 01:00:21,678
And also during the course of the day,
your beard starts to grow through it.
789
01:00:21,847 --> 01:00:27,444
So if you put it on at six o'clock in the
morning and you take it off at 10:30 at night,
790
01:00:27,607 --> 01:00:31,885
it's anchored not only with the glue,
but with your beard.
791
01:00:32,047 --> 01:00:34,845
And then, eventually, we got this idea
792
01:00:35,007 --> 01:00:41,924
of lying in a hot bath
full of Badedas bath foam, with a snorkel.
793
01:00:42,087 --> 01:00:46,524
And I would snuggle down under the water,
breathe through the snorkel,
794
01:00:46,687 --> 01:00:49,918
and very gradually, gradually, it would lift.
795
01:00:50,087 --> 01:00:55,605
It would lift and it wouldn't break the skin,
it wouldn't bleed.
796
01:00:55,767 --> 01:00:58,964
And I've still got at home, all these years later,
797
01:00:59,127 --> 01:01:04,121
a complete, rather squashed,
I, Claudius face. Yes.
798
01:01:04,287 --> 01:01:09,156
The make-up supervisor said,
"Now, listen, Brian. You must not move.
799
01:01:09,327 --> 01:01:11,522
"You mustn't move. If you move..."
800
01:01:11,687 --> 01:01:17,205
So an edict went out that we weren't
meant to make them laugh.
801
01:01:17,367 --> 01:01:21,485
Brian was sitting at a desk,
preparing for a scene,
802
01:01:21,647 --> 01:01:27,836
with this thing on his face,
writing in charcoal, as they did...
803
01:01:28,527 --> 01:01:31,246
And I took one of these pieces of charcoal
804
01:01:31,407 --> 01:01:36,083
and I said, "You know, Brian. If you put
that between the cheeks of your arse
805
01:01:36,247 --> 01:01:39,876
"and kept it there for 2,000 years,
you'd have a diamond."
806
01:01:40,047 --> 01:01:44,518
He went, "Don't do it, don't do it..."
807
01:01:45,767 --> 01:01:48,918
Pam Meager was absolutely livid!
808
01:01:49,087 --> 01:01:50,759
Pay up!
809
01:02:08,687 --> 01:02:10,678
What's the matter?
810
01:02:10,847 --> 01:02:12,838
I feel sick.
811
01:02:13,007 --> 01:02:18,286
I mean, there are so many scenes in it
that are amazing - by everybody.
812
01:02:18,447 --> 01:02:22,725
On a personal side, the biggest shock
for me one day
813
01:02:22,887 --> 01:02:26,641
was Herbie coming in and saying,
"This is your death day."
814
01:02:26,807 --> 01:02:32,040
Everyone was miserable. They didn't want
me to die. We did have a lot of fun.
815
01:02:34,607 --> 01:02:39,886
The serious side of Augustus, epitomised,
for example, in his death scene...
816
01:02:40,487 --> 01:02:44,526
He was wonderful. I remember saying to him,
817
01:02:44,687 --> 01:02:50,125
"What I want from you is
to see the light going out of your eyes."
818
01:02:50,287 --> 01:02:55,407
He said, "I'm going to keep a camera on
your face for four and a half to five minutes.
819
01:02:55,567 --> 01:03:01,517
"We're going to see Rome die. We're going
to see the Empire die on your face."
820
01:03:01,687 --> 01:03:03,996
(AUGUSTUS RETCHES)
821
01:03:07,327 --> 01:03:09,682
I had this long, wonderful speech,
822
01:03:09,847 --> 01:03:12,805
and I thought, "I know how I'll do this,"
then Herbert said,
823
01:03:12,967 --> 01:03:17,643
"I'm not going to film you at all, actually.
It's going to be on Augustus' dying face."
824
01:03:17,807 --> 01:03:22,676
She said, "What? This is the most wonderful
speech." And we had quite an argument.
825
01:03:22,847 --> 01:03:26,760
I said, "No." And she was wonderful.
She was a very generous woman.
826
01:03:26,927 --> 01:03:31,921
Si�n wasn't too happy - but she's a great
gal and she'd accepted it within ten minutes -
827
01:03:32,087 --> 01:03:35,079
because she had five minutes of speeches.
828
01:03:37,447 --> 01:03:39,438
Are you feeling better?
829
01:03:42,447 --> 01:03:45,280
There's a delegation here from Rome.
830
01:03:45,887 --> 01:03:49,038
(BRIAN BLESSED)
You didn't see her face. Not at all.
831
01:03:49,207 --> 01:03:52,882
So he said, ''I want your eyes open,
half open,
832
01:03:53,047 --> 01:03:55,925
''and I want you dead within ten seconds,
833
01:03:56,087 --> 01:04:02,959
''and then I want you for about five minutes
to be dead, and we'll just hear her voice. ''
834
01:04:03,127 --> 01:04:08,326
I said, "It can't be done, Herbie."
Because when you see people dying in films,
835
01:04:08,487 --> 01:04:12,526
you count it - it's ten, fifteen seconds,
usually seven,
836
01:04:12,687 --> 01:04:15,645
or they freeze frame if it's a minute.
837
01:04:15,807 --> 01:04:18,924
But not with me -
the eyes are watering and everything.
838
01:04:19,087 --> 01:04:22,602
The eyes are dead
and beginning to decompose.
839
01:04:22,767 --> 01:04:25,281
(WISE) If you watch the scene,
he did it not once,
840
01:04:25,447 --> 01:04:28,917
but twice,
because there was some technical difficulty.
841
01:04:29,087 --> 01:04:33,444
We did one take of it and all the lights
in the studio went out.
842
01:04:33,607 --> 01:04:36,917
It was the most extraordinary thing.
Everything went dark.
843
01:04:37,087 --> 01:04:43,435
We lost all power when Augustus died.
He died silently and all the lights went out!
844
01:04:43,607 --> 01:04:49,398
So the more superstitious people in the
cast thought this was the curse of Claudius!
845
01:04:49,567 --> 01:04:54,083
These great cameras above my head
and lighting, I thought it'd fall on me.
846
01:04:54,247 --> 01:04:57,000
I actually thought I was going to die
in that scene.
847
01:04:57,167 --> 01:05:02,161
The curse came back again. The curse of
Claudius, of people dying and being injured.
848
01:05:02,327 --> 01:05:04,557
I felt slightly panicky at the time.
849
01:05:04,727 --> 01:05:09,881
I was most apologetic and terrified
to go down to him on the set and say,
850
01:05:10,047 --> 01:05:14,359
''I'm sorry. We will have to do it again''
because of this, that and the other.
851
01:05:14,527 --> 01:05:17,360
He said, ''No problem'', and we did it again,
852
01:05:17,527 --> 01:05:22,203
and he did it as brilliantly the second
time as the first time, and I love that.
853
01:05:31,687 --> 01:05:35,043
I think that every actor,
at some point in their career,
854
01:05:35,207 --> 01:05:39,758
looks for that part
that they become associated with.
855
01:05:40,607 --> 01:05:45,158
Some actors have more than one.
Some actors don't get that one.
856
01:05:45,327 --> 01:05:48,205
I was lucky that I got Claudius.
857
01:05:48,367 --> 01:05:51,484
The next part I played after I, Claudius
858
01:05:51,647 --> 01:05:56,675
was an American socialite
in a musical by Rogers and Hart.
859
01:05:56,847 --> 01:06:01,045
So that I certainly didn't get
from playing Livia!
860
01:06:01,207 --> 01:06:05,962
So it didn't make any difference,
but it was the most hugely enjoyable show
861
01:06:06,127 --> 01:06:10,245
and it has been, down the years,
the most wonderful visiting card.
862
01:06:10,407 --> 01:06:16,437
Anywhere you go in the world, someone will
say, "Weren't you in I, Claudius? I love that."
863
01:06:16,607 --> 01:06:20,043
The fact that it was shown internationally
864
01:06:20,207 --> 01:06:23,836
meant that work would be offered
865
01:06:24,007 --> 01:06:28,319
not only in England, but also abroad.
866
01:06:28,487 --> 01:06:32,685
People in France knew who you were,
people in Holland knew you.
867
01:06:32,847 --> 01:06:36,726
It was a significant role for me in many ways.
868
01:06:36,887 --> 01:06:42,484
It followed very closely to a piece I did
called The Naked Civil Servant,
869
01:06:42,647 --> 01:06:44,638
which was about Quentin Crisp.
870
01:06:44,807 --> 01:06:51,076
And particularly in America because
this was absolutely a huge hit in America.
871
01:06:51,247 --> 01:06:59,325
I was in Israel inaugurating, or starting off,
a cabaret tour that I did in 1998.
872
01:06:59,487 --> 01:07:01,000
Not so long ago.
873
01:07:01,167 --> 01:07:04,523
I was sitting in a taxi outside my hotel
in Tel Aviv
874
01:07:04,687 --> 01:07:07,759
and my interpreter
was standing on the pavement,
875
01:07:07,927 --> 01:07:11,237
and I was waiting to set off for the theatre,
876
01:07:11,407 --> 01:07:15,446
and the driver didn't move off -
he was quite a young Israeli.
877
01:07:15,607 --> 01:07:19,566
Finally, he beckoned to the interpreter,
who came over,
878
01:07:19,727 --> 01:07:25,757
and in Hebrew, apparently, he said,
"Is that Augustus' wife in the back?"
879
01:07:25,927 --> 01:07:29,397
Not even Livia. "Augustus' wife"!
880
01:07:30,887 --> 01:07:33,321
And they'd just been watching it.
881
01:07:33,487 --> 01:07:37,924
It's a thing that is watched all the time
all over the world, and that's very nice.
882
01:07:38,087 --> 01:07:42,683
I opened a store in Copenhagen
883
01:07:42,847 --> 01:07:49,958
and it was extraordinary - this was just
after Claudius had been shown in Denmark.
884
01:07:50,127 --> 01:07:53,836
They had to get me out over the roof
as if I was a Beatle
885
01:07:54,007 --> 01:07:57,397
because of all the people
coming to see Claudius.
886
01:07:57,567 --> 01:08:01,037
It did have a major impact on my career -
I, Claudius.
887
01:08:01,207 --> 01:08:05,086
In fact, the following day
after it had been transmitted,
888
01:08:05,247 --> 01:08:10,560
the producer of a series called Poldark
rang the producer of I, Claudius
889
01:08:10,727 --> 01:08:15,482
and said, what was this Biggins like?
And he was very complimentary about me.
890
01:08:15,647 --> 01:08:22,280
In fact, I then landed immediately
the part of the sex-crazed vicar in Poldark.
891
01:08:22,447 --> 01:08:25,041
I was out of work for six months.
892
01:08:25,207 --> 01:08:31,362
My friend Christopher Plummer said,
"Ah, you're there now, boy. You're in."
893
01:08:31,927 --> 01:08:36,603
No. Out of work for six months,
and then we started doing other things.
894
01:08:36,767 --> 01:08:42,842
To look back now,
to be here and talking to you about it,
895
01:08:43,007 --> 01:08:49,526
it makes you proud to have been associated
with one of the great programmes of the BBC,
896
01:08:49,687 --> 01:08:53,600
just as when I did the Forsyte Saga
and the first Churchills...
897
01:08:54,327 --> 01:09:00,197
what it meant and what it means now to be
associated with those great programmes,
898
01:09:00,367 --> 01:09:06,806
but at the time, it didn't change much about
my acting life or what I was asked to do.
899
01:09:07,687 --> 01:09:10,485
Maybe it did in subtle ways,
but not in ways I ever realised.
900
01:09:13,047 --> 01:09:14,878
The very first notices were not favourable.
901
01:09:15,047 --> 01:09:20,201
Initially, the critics were a bit pissy about it.
902
01:09:20,367 --> 01:09:23,803
They weren't raves, by any means.
903
01:09:23,967 --> 01:09:28,483
I remember the Guardian critic - whose
name I remember, but I won't quote now -
904
01:09:28,647 --> 01:09:31,115
starting his criticism by saying,
905
01:09:31,287 --> 01:09:35,963
"There ought to be a society
for the prevention of cruelty to actors."
906
01:09:36,127 --> 01:09:38,118
We knew it was good.
907
01:09:38,287 --> 01:09:41,882
We knew that we were in something
very, very classy.
908
01:09:43,727 --> 01:09:49,404
But we were a little bit chary
of how it was going to go with the audience.
909
01:09:49,567 --> 01:09:54,595
My then husband, Peter O'T oole,
said, "Oh, don't worry about this."
910
01:09:54,767 --> 01:10:01,479
He had asked somebody to research
the notices for the novel when that came out,
911
01:10:01,647 --> 01:10:06,675
and they were almost identical with
the notices for the series when it came out.
912
01:10:06,847 --> 01:10:10,726
People were shocked that people in togas
were talking slang...
913
01:10:11,607 --> 01:10:13,677
and they found it rather odd.
914
01:10:13,847 --> 01:10:18,477
Then within a few weeks, everyone had
turned around and changed their minds,
915
01:10:18,647 --> 01:10:20,603
and gave it better notices.
916
01:10:20,767 --> 01:10:24,442
It was not until we were
about halfway through the series
917
01:10:24,607 --> 01:10:30,045
that I got an inkling that this was bigger
than most other things. It was a gut feeling.
918
01:10:30,207 --> 01:10:33,836
It was halfway through the series
and we were filming the last episode
919
01:10:34,007 --> 01:10:38,205
and they said, we've made a terrible mistake.
This is great television -
920
01:10:38,367 --> 01:10:43,999
brilliantly written, wonderfully directed and
acted. So everybody was on a big, big high.
921
01:10:44,167 --> 01:10:48,046
I just think - not because I'm in it -
it's the best series ever.
922
01:10:48,207 --> 01:10:53,600
I've ever seen. I'm too bloody old, man, too
long in the tooth for that kind of vanity.
923
01:10:53,767 --> 01:10:58,921
I think the whole standard by everybody
and the teamwork, it is on its own.
924
01:10:59,087 --> 01:11:03,399
I'm sure they could show it now.
I'm sure there's a generation that would be...
925
01:11:03,567 --> 01:11:08,561
I think it's timeless. It's not something
that's going to date that badly.
926
01:11:08,727 --> 01:11:13,403
The critics, initially, hadn't greeted it
with open arms,
927
01:11:13,567 --> 01:11:17,162
but right from the beginning,
the public seemed to.
928
01:11:17,327 --> 01:11:21,605
If you like Eastenders or Coronation Street
or any of those,
929
01:11:21,767 --> 01:11:25,999
then I, Claudius is...
You can relate I, Claudius to that.
930
01:11:26,167 --> 01:11:29,000
It was like a sort of Roman Coronation Street.
931
01:11:29,167 --> 01:11:34,036
I think that's where it scored
because it was every day life in a way,
932
01:11:34,207 --> 01:11:36,323
and portrayed as such,
933
01:11:36,487 --> 01:11:41,356
and yet the most appalling things happened,
like murders and everything,
934
01:11:41,527 --> 01:11:46,885
which, of course, wouldn't happen
in a soap of today, but in those days it did.
935
01:11:47,047 --> 01:11:49,607
I think that's where the public really liked it.
936
01:11:49,767 --> 01:11:54,636
The public really took it into its heart
and relished it.
937
01:11:54,807 --> 01:12:01,679
If I say I did I, Claudius, people still react to it,
still remember it, still say, "Oh, I see."
938
01:12:01,847 --> 01:12:06,796
And I've done a lot of work since then,
some of it quite well received,
939
01:12:06,967 --> 01:12:09,845
but that's the one everybody remembers.
940
01:12:10,007 --> 01:12:15,718
The adaptation by Pulman is outstanding.
Great work. Great scholarship.
941
01:12:16,727 --> 01:12:22,245
Great work by Erskine. Great direction.
Great production, staff, make-up, wardrobe.
942
01:12:22,407 --> 01:12:25,365
Outstanding cast that worked as a team.
943
01:12:25,527 --> 01:12:28,644
And I think it's as near perfection
as you can get.
944
01:12:28,807 --> 01:12:32,595
I think we all got it together right.
945
01:12:32,767 --> 01:12:39,002
And I think that God looks down
on a great team and smiles with satisfaction
946
01:12:39,167 --> 01:12:42,557
and says, "That is it. That's enough."
89232
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