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NARRATOR:
In the criminal justice system
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00:00:03,037 --> 00:00:06,917
the people are represented
by two separate yet equally important groups,
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00:00:06,974 --> 00:00:08,783
the police
who investigate crime
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00:00:08,843 --> 00:00:11,653
and the district attorneys
who prosecute the offenders.
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These are their stories.
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We're obviously
not hitting it off
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like Bob and Marcy
thought we would.
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We don't
have to go eat dinner, okay? We could just call it a night.
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(EXHALES) We already
came this far.
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We might as well
find this place and get some tofu or whatever.
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Now you're
being hostile.
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Look, I'm not judging you
for eating meat, okay?
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I just prefer not to
eat beings with souls.
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(CHUCKLES)
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The Pantheists believed
plants had souls.
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How does that fit
into your paradigm?
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I choose to
draw the line at animal matter.
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And you shouldn't litter.
We're all custodians of the earth.
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Oh, my God.
What now?
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How long's
he been here?
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Well, the body's still warm.
M.E. says no more than an hour.
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Looks like he was shot
on the street and then dragged down here.
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Yeah, he took
one in the chest.
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CSU's got
the shell casings.
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Looks like
his early 50s?
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00:01:11,939 --> 00:01:14,647
Yeah. He did pretty well,
from the looks of his clothes.
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Any ID?
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The money's still here,
so it's probably not a robbery.
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Let's see.
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Thomas Reddick.
Pavilion Publishing. CEO.
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(SIREN WAILS)
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Looks like they publish
a string of magazines. News, fashion.
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Well, he's on
the other side of the camera now.
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He's on the other side,
period.
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Tomorrow's
our anniversary.
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Twenty-three years.
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ED: We're very sorry
for your loss, Mrs. Reddick.
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Our son Ted is a senior
at Brown and...
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I don't know how
I'm going to tell him.
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The last time you spoke to
your husband, he was in his office?
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He called me at about 5:00,
just to say hi.
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I hurried him off the phone
because I was late for my pilates class.
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ED: What time
did you get home?
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Around 7:00 or so.
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Were you
concerned at all that he wasn't here?
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Ever since
they made him CEO at Pavilion,
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he's had
an enormous demand on his time.
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His office
is at Midtown.
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Any idea why he was
five blocks from here?
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(SIGHS)
The only thing I can think is that,
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he stopped to get
a last minute anniversary gift.
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ED: ls there anybody
in the area he would have visited?
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(SIGHS)
Not that I know of.
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I hate to ask you
this but,
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could there have been
another party involved?
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The only other
party in our marriage was that job, Detective.
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I used to joke that
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that job would
make me a widow.
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You know, this is
pretty impressive. Yeah.
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00:04:00,841 --> 00:04:03,981
And for all that
the guy ends up dead at the bottom of a stairwell.
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I've got his
appointment book.
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00:04:05,980 --> 00:04:08,017
I'm not sure
you should be going through that.
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00:04:08,082 --> 00:04:10,255
Look, we're dealing with
a homicide investigation.
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00:04:10,317 --> 00:04:12,695
Oh, I just meant
there might be some sensitive material there.
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00:04:12,753 --> 00:04:14,426
That's exactly
what we're looking for.
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00:04:14,488 --> 00:04:17,162
I was referring
to the corporate financial information
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about the buyouts.
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Buyouts?
Of the other magazines.
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00:04:20,528 --> 00:04:22,735
That's what Mr. Reddick's
meetings were about yesterday.
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00:04:22,797 --> 00:04:24,538
When was his
last appointment?
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00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,246
That would have been
his 6:30 with Legal.
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And that was the
last time you saw him?
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On his way upstairs.
He wasn't very happy.
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00:04:33,474 --> 00:04:36,080
Mr. Reddick didn't
really look forward to meetings with lawyers.
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I know the feeling.
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Pavilion Publishing just
bought out several magazines
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to bring under
our umbrella.
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Naturally, it came
with residual baggage.
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00:04:46,220 --> 00:04:47,927
Meaning?
Lawsuits.
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00:04:48,723 --> 00:04:52,227
Thomas was here
for an hour or so to discuss potential resolutions.
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00:04:54,862 --> 00:04:57,866
Thomas was such
a driving force in this company.
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I can't believe he's gone.
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00:05:01,102 --> 00:05:03,309
Was there
anybody else here besides you two?
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00:05:04,004 --> 00:05:07,474
Several of our
in-house attorneys, a paralegal.
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We were
evaluating the cases and preparing settlement offers.
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00:05:11,412 --> 00:05:14,018
Do you recall what time
Mr. Reddick left the meeting?
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00:05:14,081 --> 00:05:16,322
I know
it was around 7:30.
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I just assumed he was
going back to his office.
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I was
on duty last night when Mr. Reddick left.
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00:05:22,590 --> 00:05:24,900
We've all been
working double shifts these last few months.
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00:05:24,959 --> 00:05:27,098
Do people
sign in and out of the building after hours?
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00:05:27,161 --> 00:05:30,438
If they don't have IDs,
anyone in after 6:00 signs a sheet
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and again
when they leave.
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00:05:31,799 --> 00:05:34,643
Does that show
anybody signing out around the time Mr. Reddick left?
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00:05:34,702 --> 00:05:36,739
No, sir.
Not until 10 minutes later.
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00:05:38,005 --> 00:05:40,576
This doesn't say which offices
half the people went to.
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And some of them
didn't even sign out.
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00:05:42,276 --> 00:05:44,847
Phone rings, I can't
do six things at once.
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00:05:44,912 --> 00:05:47,620
Was anybody
with Mr. Reddick when he went out?
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00:05:47,681 --> 00:05:48,853
He was by himself.
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00:05:48,916 --> 00:05:50,987
I offered
to get him a cab, it was freezing out,
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but he said
I should stay warm.
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Decent guy.
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00:05:53,654 --> 00:05:54,962
Did you see him
get in the cab?
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I saw it pull up.
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I remember
because there were a few other people out there.
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00:05:58,959 --> 00:06:00,370
Looked like
he was talking to one of them.
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I looked again,
the cab was gone, so was Mr. Reddick.
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00:06:02,930 --> 00:06:05,376
So you didn't see
if Mr. Reddick got in the taxi by himself?
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00:06:05,433 --> 00:06:07,106
I wasn't paying
close attention.
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00:06:07,168 --> 00:06:08,977
Do you remember what
this person looked like?
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00:06:09,036 --> 00:06:11,038
The one that Reddick
was talking to?
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00:06:11,105 --> 00:06:12,482
A white guy.
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00:06:12,540 --> 00:06:14,713
Suit and tie, overcoat.
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00:06:14,775 --> 00:06:15,810
That's about it.
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Thanks.
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So he leaves his office
at 7:30
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and winds up dead
five blocks from home a half hour later.
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00:06:24,618 --> 00:06:27,997
The canvass didn't turn up
any witnesses in the vicinity of the attack.
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00:06:28,055 --> 00:06:32,333
Well, Ballistics said the gun
used to kill Mr. Reddick was a Glock 9mm.
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00:06:32,393 --> 00:06:34,202
Anything recovered from
the search of the area?
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00:06:34,261 --> 00:06:35,433
Nothing so far.
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00:06:35,496 --> 00:06:37,772
There were
a couple of gift shops and florists in the area.
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00:06:37,832 --> 00:06:41,575
So if his wife was
right about him stopping for an anniversary present,
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00:06:41,635 --> 00:06:43,205
he never made it.
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00:06:43,270 --> 00:06:45,113
Wallet full of cash,
nothing taken.
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00:06:45,172 --> 00:06:46,310
It still could have
been a robbery.
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00:06:46,373 --> 00:06:48,375
Somebody comes along,
they scare the attacker off.
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00:06:48,442 --> 00:06:51,286
So we're right back
to the last people who saw him alive.
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00:06:51,378 --> 00:06:53,790
Security guard said
Reddick left the building alone
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00:06:53,848 --> 00:06:57,455
and then was talking to
a white guy in a suit just before he got into the cab.
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00:06:57,551 --> 00:07:00,464
Only he wasn't sure if
this guy got in the cab with Reddick.
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00:07:00,521 --> 00:07:02,125
Now, that lawyer you
spoke with,
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00:07:02,189 --> 00:07:04,294
didn't he say there were
other people at the meeting?
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00:07:04,358 --> 00:07:07,567
Well, maybe this guy
in the suit was one of them.
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00:07:07,628 --> 00:07:09,539
Mr. Reddick
left by himself.
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00:07:09,597 --> 00:07:12,339
He didn't offer to maybe
share a cab with anybody?
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00:07:12,466 --> 00:07:14,742
Mmm-mmm. The rest of us
continued working on the cases.
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00:07:14,802 --> 00:07:15,974
The lawsuits?
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00:07:16,036 --> 00:07:17,310
Are those them?
Yes.
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00:07:17,371 --> 00:07:18,611
Mind if we take a look?
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00:07:18,672 --> 00:07:20,811
Actually, all those
files are privileged.
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Okay. Can you tell us the
nature of the litigations?
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00:07:24,144 --> 00:07:27,682
They run the gamut
from slip-and-falls to contract disputes,
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00:07:27,748 --> 00:07:29,921
a few sexual
harassment suits.
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00:07:30,184 --> 00:07:31,788
Just one big
happy company.
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00:07:32,219 --> 00:07:33,721
ED: Were there any plaintiffs
that were a problem?
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00:07:33,787 --> 00:07:35,562
They are all a problem.
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00:07:35,623 --> 00:07:38,866
But it wouldn't
have been in anyone's interest to harm Thomas.
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00:07:38,926 --> 00:07:41,702
He was the one anxious
to dispose of the suits.
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00:07:42,129 --> 00:07:43,267
BRISCOE: Well,
what we're thinking is,
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would anybody on this list
have been interested in disposing of him?
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IRWIN: I filed
the suit because as a stockholder
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00:07:53,174 --> 00:07:55,552
I disagree
with the management decisions of the company.
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00:07:55,609 --> 00:07:57,987
I'm guessing you're
a minority shareholder.
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00:07:58,045 --> 00:07:59,991
I'm entitled to
express my views.
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00:08:00,047 --> 00:08:02,186
Please don't lean
on the Chippendale.
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00:08:02,950 --> 00:08:07,057
Maybe you wanted
to express your views directly to Thomas Reddick.
159
00:08:07,121 --> 00:08:09,328
That's why I sued.
But as for killing him...
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00:08:09,390 --> 00:08:11,927
Look, we spoke
to the lawyers at the publishing company.
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00:08:11,992 --> 00:08:14,438
They got a whole
stack of letters that you wrote to Mr. Reddick.
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00:08:14,495 --> 00:08:15,940
Threatening letters, Irwin.
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00:08:15,996 --> 00:08:18,499
Look, I believe in
the pen, not the sword.
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00:08:18,999 --> 00:08:20,740
In fact,
I got a file cabinet full of complaint letters
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00:08:20,801 --> 00:08:23,372
just like the one
I sent to Pavilion.
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00:08:23,437 --> 00:08:25,417
How come I have
no problem believing that?
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00:08:25,472 --> 00:08:27,281
So what the hell
were you so upset about?
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00:08:27,741 --> 00:08:29,277
Pavilion is expanding
into areas
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00:08:29,343 --> 00:08:30,947
I don't think are
in its best interest.
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00:08:32,246 --> 00:08:33,520
Such as...
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00:08:33,981 --> 00:08:37,190
Porn.
I mean, they were soft core magazines,
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00:08:37,251 --> 00:08:41,722
but buying them out was
a fundamental violation of Pavilion's corporate mission.
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00:08:41,789 --> 00:08:44,736
The guy
sells Chippendales, but he objects to porn.
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00:08:44,792 --> 00:08:45,930
(LAUGHS MOCKINGLY)
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00:08:45,993 --> 00:08:48,405
Wonder why
Pavilion's lawyers never mentioned it.
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00:08:48,462 --> 00:08:50,533
It's their
dirty little secret.
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00:08:50,598 --> 00:08:52,043
A profitable one.
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00:08:52,099 --> 00:08:54,340
You know,
we can cross-reference the list of plaintiffs
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00:08:54,401 --> 00:08:56,745
from the magazine
and see what turns up.
180
00:09:00,107 --> 00:09:02,451
My agent told me
it was away to make some easy money.
181
00:09:02,509 --> 00:09:04,250
You mean posing
for those photos?
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00:09:04,311 --> 00:09:07,315
(SIGHS)
Rent, acting classes, time off for auditions.
183
00:09:07,381 --> 00:09:09,122
It all takes money,
Detective.
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00:09:09,183 --> 00:09:10,355
Money I don't have.
185
00:09:10,417 --> 00:09:12,158
So, why did you sue?
186
00:09:13,020 --> 00:09:14,363
'Cause your boyfriend
didn't like it?
187
00:09:15,055 --> 00:09:16,762
Doug doesn't understand
what it's like.
188
00:09:16,857 --> 00:09:18,803
How much competition
there is out there.
189
00:09:19,193 --> 00:09:21,764
So, he's the one who didn't
want the photos published?
190
00:09:22,363 --> 00:09:24,934
Well, they were supposed to
be for a private collection.
191
00:09:24,999 --> 00:09:26,910
Then about six months ago,
I got a letter in the mail
192
00:09:26,967 --> 00:09:29,277
saying they were
going to run them in one of their magazines.
193
00:09:29,336 --> 00:09:30,679
ED: How did
Doug take that?
194
00:09:30,738 --> 00:09:32,149
(SIGHS) Not real well.
195
00:09:32,973 --> 00:09:35,852
Is there any chance
that your boyfriend could have known
196
00:09:35,909 --> 00:09:38,389
Pavilion was
going to talk about your lawsuit that night?
197
00:09:38,445 --> 00:09:39,480
AMANDA: Why?
198
00:09:39,546 --> 00:09:42,026
We just need to speak
to anybody that might have been involved.
199
00:09:42,082 --> 00:09:44,255
Look, Doug was pissed,
but that's all.
200
00:09:45,052 --> 00:09:46,656
He couldn't have had
anything to do with it.
201
00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:48,893
He works two jobs.
Nights he tends bar.
202
00:09:51,325 --> 00:09:53,066
Doug never
showed up that night. He say why?
203
00:09:53,127 --> 00:09:54,765
Said he forgot.
204
00:09:54,828 --> 00:09:56,068
Kid's been with me
over a year.
205
00:09:56,130 --> 00:09:58,041
I gotta cut him
some slack, you know.
206
00:09:58,098 --> 00:09:59,702
What do you guys
want to talk to him about?
207
00:09:59,767 --> 00:10:00,973
His girlfriend.
208
00:10:01,035 --> 00:10:02,605
Amanda.
You know her?
209
00:10:03,203 --> 00:10:05,183
Yeah, sure.
She comes in here all the time.
210
00:10:05,239 --> 00:10:07,412
Whoa, whoa. Doug didn't
do something stupid, now did he?
211
00:10:07,474 --> 00:10:08,714
Why do you say that?
212
00:10:08,776 --> 00:10:10,153
Well, the kid's upset,
you know.
213
00:10:10,210 --> 00:10:12,053
I mean, this girl's
the girl of his dreams,
214
00:10:12,112 --> 00:10:13,955
if we can all remember
what that's like.
215
00:10:14,014 --> 00:10:16,517
You know, the stuff about
the pictures comes out, you know.
216
00:10:16,583 --> 00:10:17,721
He talked about it?
217
00:10:17,785 --> 00:10:20,265
Yeah, sure. It's all
he could talk about. I tried to tell him,
218
00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,459
I said, "Look,
it's not the end of the world or anything."
219
00:10:22,523 --> 00:10:24,434
But he didn't
see it that way. No.
220
00:10:24,491 --> 00:10:25,936
The guys at
the construction job
221
00:10:25,993 --> 00:10:27,472
started giving him
the grief, you know.
222
00:10:27,528 --> 00:10:29,064
We get lawyers in here
from time to time.
223
00:10:29,129 --> 00:10:31,541
He was always asking 'em
what he could do, you know.
224
00:10:31,598 --> 00:10:33,475
But they kept telling him
there's nothing he could do.
225
00:10:33,534 --> 00:10:35,707
So Doug didn't take no
for an answer.
226
00:10:36,603 --> 00:10:37,638
BRISCOE: Douglas Larson?
227
00:10:37,705 --> 00:10:39,013
DOUG: That's right.
228
00:10:39,073 --> 00:10:41,383
We need to talk to you
about Thomas Reddick.
229
00:10:41,442 --> 00:10:42,716
What about?
230
00:10:42,776 --> 00:10:44,312
You don't
seem surprised.
231
00:10:45,746 --> 00:10:47,817
Well, I figure it has
something to do with Amanda.
232
00:10:47,881 --> 00:10:49,383
Then you know Mr. Reddick?
233
00:10:49,450 --> 00:10:51,054
I know who he is, yeah.
234
00:10:51,118 --> 00:10:52,825
When's the last time
you saw him?
235
00:10:52,886 --> 00:10:55,833
I've never seen him.
Look, what's this all about?
236
00:10:55,889 --> 00:10:58,495
BRISCOE:
Maybe we better talk down at the precinct.
237
00:10:59,026 --> 00:11:00,403
Are You saying
I gotta go with you?
238
00:11:00,461 --> 00:11:03,135
Look, it would help
to clear some things up.
239
00:11:03,197 --> 00:11:04,369
About Amanda.
240
00:11:05,899 --> 00:11:07,139
Can I at least change?
241
00:11:07,201 --> 00:11:08,407
BRISCOE:
Oh, don't worry about it.
242
00:11:08,469 --> 00:11:11,507
The kind of pictures we take
are only from the neck up.
243
00:11:11,705 --> 00:11:12,706
Let's go.
244
00:11:17,945 --> 00:11:20,118
I told you, I never
saw Reddick that night.
245
00:11:20,180 --> 00:11:21,625
But you did
go to his office.
246
00:11:21,715 --> 00:11:24,457
Your name's on the
building sign-in sheet.
247
00:11:27,321 --> 00:11:29,892
You recognize your
signature, Mr. Larson?
248
00:11:30,924 --> 00:11:32,870
Okay, I went up to
see Reddick,
249
00:11:32,926 --> 00:11:34,200
but he was
already gone.
250
00:11:34,628 --> 00:11:36,005
Then why go there at all?
251
00:11:36,063 --> 00:11:37,167
I just wanted
to talk to him.
252
00:11:37,231 --> 00:11:39,609
See if maybe
they'd think about what they were doing to Amanda.
253
00:11:39,666 --> 00:11:41,373
You mean about what
they were doing to you?
254
00:11:41,435 --> 00:11:45,281
People have told us
you were pretty angry about those pictures, Mr. Larson.
255
00:11:46,006 --> 00:11:47,508
What are you saying?
256
00:11:47,574 --> 00:11:50,214
Why did you
lie to your boss about where you were that night?
257
00:11:50,277 --> 00:11:52,052
I didn't think it was
any of his business.
258
00:11:52,112 --> 00:11:55,184
The security guard said
he saw you talkin' to Reddick
259
00:11:55,249 --> 00:11:57,092
that night in front
of his building.
260
00:11:57,151 --> 00:11:59,153
I told you,
I never saw him.
261
00:11:59,219 --> 00:12:01,722
He said that
you two were arguing.
262
00:12:01,789 --> 00:12:03,166
It never happened.
263
00:12:04,958 --> 00:12:07,905
Look, I went up to
Reddick's office, he wasn't there.
264
00:12:07,961 --> 00:12:10,805
I came back down,
got in the car with my friend. That's all.
265
00:12:10,931 --> 00:12:12,968
BRISCOE: What friend?
A guy I work at the site with.
266
00:12:13,033 --> 00:12:15,206
Danny Moreno.
He gave me a ride.
267
00:12:15,869 --> 00:12:19,078
Look, you can
ask him yourself. He was there when I came out.
268
00:12:19,673 --> 00:12:22,313
My wife temps
three blocks away. I gave Doug a lift.
269
00:12:22,476 --> 00:12:24,752
You drove
into Midtown to pick your wife up?
270
00:12:24,845 --> 00:12:26,153
She broke her leg
a few months ago.
271
00:12:26,213 --> 00:12:27,749
She still
has trouble getting around.
272
00:12:27,814 --> 00:12:29,020
What's going on?
273
00:12:29,082 --> 00:12:32,461
Hey, did Doug
tell you why he was going to Pavilion Publishing?
274
00:12:32,519 --> 00:12:34,726
To talk to some guy about
his girlfriend's pictures.
275
00:12:34,788 --> 00:12:37,166
Was he angry?
Of course he was. Wouldn't you be?
276
00:12:37,224 --> 00:12:39,704
BRISCOE:
He said that you were there when he came out.
277
00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,003
Yeah, my wife
doesn't get off till 8:00. I found a spot on the corner.
278
00:12:43,697 --> 00:12:46,303
A man was killed
that night, Mr. Moreno.
279
00:12:46,900 --> 00:12:48,038
This man.
280
00:12:48,101 --> 00:12:50,308
Actually there were
a couple of guys
281
00:12:50,370 --> 00:12:51,906
and I think one of
them was a black guy.
282
00:12:51,972 --> 00:12:53,815
Looked to me like
they had some sort of beef.
283
00:12:53,874 --> 00:12:55,251
Might've been him,
I don't know.
284
00:12:55,309 --> 00:12:57,118
BRISCOE:
Can you describe who was with him?
285
00:12:57,177 --> 00:12:58,485
Two white guys.
ED: Two white guys?
286
00:12:58,545 --> 00:12:59,580
Right.
287
00:12:59,646 --> 00:13:02,217
Did you notice
if they all came out of the same building?
288
00:13:02,282 --> 00:13:03,693
I didn't see.
289
00:13:03,750 --> 00:13:05,252
Did you see if
they left together?
290
00:13:05,352 --> 00:13:06,660
Black guy
got in the cab,
291
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,667
then the other two
flagged down another one a couple of seconds later.
292
00:13:09,723 --> 00:13:10,793
Anything else
you can tell us?
293
00:13:10,858 --> 00:13:12,804
Just that
the white guys seemed in a hurry.
294
00:13:12,860 --> 00:13:14,464
I noticed that 'cause
they started helping a lady
295
00:13:14,528 --> 00:13:16,804
who was already in the cab
take her luggage out of the back.
296
00:13:16,864 --> 00:13:19,811
It was one of those,
you know, minivan type taxis.
297
00:13:21,869 --> 00:13:24,145
So, we're not looking for
one white guy in a suit. Now it's two.
298
00:13:24,204 --> 00:13:26,377
Oh, well, that just
narrows it right down.
299
00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:28,545
And we're sure Doug Larson
wasn't one of them?
300
00:13:28,609 --> 00:13:31,590
Only time you'd
find him in a suit would be at a wedding or a funeral.
301
00:13:31,645 --> 00:13:35,218
Okay, so this witness sees
these two guys with Reddick arguing.
302
00:13:35,282 --> 00:13:37,489
Although he's not sure
he saw them come out of the same building.
303
00:13:37,551 --> 00:13:39,087
Well, if they had something
to do with the murder,
304
00:13:39,152 --> 00:13:41,154
then they had to follow him
in the second cab.
305
00:13:41,221 --> 00:13:43,792
Or they knew
where Reddick was going in the first place.
306
00:13:43,857 --> 00:13:45,097
Well, the only way
to find out
307
00:13:45,158 --> 00:13:46,899
is to talk to
the second cabbie.
308
00:13:47,361 --> 00:13:48,772
Oh, that ought
to be easy.
309
00:13:51,064 --> 00:13:55,103
Taxi and Limousine Commission
says there's 382 minivan type cabs in the city.
310
00:13:55,168 --> 00:13:56,613
They tell you
which companies use them?
311
00:13:56,670 --> 00:13:58,240
Yeah, mainly
the independents.
312
00:13:58,305 --> 00:14:00,911
Guy said the
sedans are lucky to have a three-year street life.
313
00:14:00,974 --> 00:14:02,715
Minivans go for five
or more.
314
00:14:02,776 --> 00:14:03,914
There's three makes.
315
00:14:03,977 --> 00:14:07,151
Isuzu Oasis,
Chevy Venture and Honda Odyssey.
316
00:14:07,214 --> 00:14:08,887
Here's a list of
the independents.
317
00:14:08,949 --> 00:14:11,225
We can pull
the registrations from the DMV.
318
00:14:11,285 --> 00:14:14,061
Please tell me they weren't
all on the road that night.
319
00:14:15,489 --> 00:14:17,196
I had just gotten back
from JFK.
320
00:14:17,257 --> 00:14:20,136
I was about to go
back to the airport when these two guys jumped in.
321
00:14:20,193 --> 00:14:21,467
One of them
gave me $50.
322
00:14:21,528 --> 00:14:24,737
I figured, airport business
isn't what it used to be anyway, so...
323
00:14:24,798 --> 00:14:25,902
Where'd you take 'em?
324
00:14:25,966 --> 00:14:27,775
The West Side.
The Seventies.
325
00:14:27,834 --> 00:14:28,835
You're sure?
326
00:14:28,902 --> 00:14:31,314
Yes, one of them wanted me
to follow this other cab.
327
00:14:31,371 --> 00:14:32,714
At first,
I started to laugh.
328
00:14:32,773 --> 00:14:34,775
I thought maybe
I was on Spy TV.
329
00:14:34,841 --> 00:14:36,320
But then the one guy,
he tells me to shut up
330
00:14:36,376 --> 00:14:37,855
and keep my eyes
on the other cab.
331
00:14:37,911 --> 00:14:39,356
That is why I remember.
332
00:14:39,780 --> 00:14:41,157
So what happened
when you dropped them off?
333
00:14:41,381 --> 00:14:42,985
The one
who gave me the money got out.
334
00:14:43,050 --> 00:14:45,155
The other one I took
back across the park.
335
00:14:45,218 --> 00:14:46,322
BRISCOE: So, they
didn't both get out?
336
00:14:46,386 --> 00:14:49,128
No, no, just the one.
The other guy wanted to go home.
337
00:14:49,189 --> 00:14:51,635
So, what did the first guy
do when he got out?
338
00:14:51,692 --> 00:14:53,933
He went off into the
direction of the other cab.
339
00:14:53,994 --> 00:14:55,473
After that, I didn't see.
340
00:14:55,529 --> 00:14:57,839
Do you remember
where you dropped the second guy off?
341
00:14:57,898 --> 00:15:01,778
82nd and York, I think
But I could check my trip sheet.
342
00:15:01,835 --> 00:15:04,145
BRISCOE: You remember
anything else about these guys?
343
00:15:04,204 --> 00:15:05,444
Just that the one
was real angry.
344
00:15:05,505 --> 00:15:06,813
ED: Angry?
Angry about what?
345
00:15:06,873 --> 00:15:08,784
I couldn't hear.
Just the other one.
346
00:15:08,875 --> 00:15:10,752
He kept saying
how it is not worth it.
347
00:15:10,811 --> 00:15:12,791
Kept trying
to get his friend to go back to some bar.
348
00:15:12,846 --> 00:15:13,916
What bar?
349
00:15:13,981 --> 00:15:15,426
Had to be near
where I picked them up.
350
00:15:15,482 --> 00:15:18,326
He kept on talking
about the waitress. A redhead.
351
00:15:19,252 --> 00:15:21,630
We get a lot of customers
from the building after work.
352
00:15:21,688 --> 00:15:23,065
Brokers, lawyers.
353
00:15:23,123 --> 00:15:25,125
You made quite
an impression on this guy.
354
00:15:25,192 --> 00:15:27,035
He was talking about you
in the cab.
355
00:15:27,094 --> 00:15:28,368
Nothing stands out.
356
00:15:28,428 --> 00:15:31,375
Okay, this guy had a friend.
They would have left around 7:30.
357
00:15:31,431 --> 00:15:33,468
That's happy hour.
It's a mob scene in here.
358
00:15:33,533 --> 00:15:36,707
Well, we're gonna need all
your charge receipts from that night.
359
00:15:36,770 --> 00:15:38,044
My manager could
get those for you,
360
00:15:38,105 --> 00:15:40,085
but usually
guys just pay cash.
361
00:15:40,140 --> 00:15:42,279
Hey, did anybody
try to hook up with you?
362
00:15:42,342 --> 00:15:43,548
Ask for your number?
363
00:15:44,511 --> 00:15:46,013
Hang on a minute.
364
00:15:46,980 --> 00:15:50,621
Hook up?
Were these guys trying to get laid or tow her car?
365
00:15:50,684 --> 00:15:51,992
(CHUCKLES)
366
00:15:52,285 --> 00:15:55,562
I don't give out my number.
But sometimes guys give me their business cards.
367
00:15:55,622 --> 00:15:58,125
These are from the
past couple of nights.
368
00:16:00,927 --> 00:16:03,840
I had no idea that was
the guy who was killed.
369
00:16:04,931 --> 00:16:06,433
So, you don't
read the paper?
370
00:16:06,500 --> 00:16:09,208
Look, if I would
have known, I would have...
371
00:16:09,269 --> 00:16:13,445
Well, now you do know.
So why don't you tell us what happened, Mr. Turner?
372
00:16:13,940 --> 00:16:16,477
Or we can
put your ass in a line-up.
373
00:16:16,543 --> 00:16:18,079
Should I have
a lawyer here?
374
00:16:18,178 --> 00:16:20,715
If you don't
start telling us what happened, yeah.
375
00:16:23,917 --> 00:16:26,124
I had a drink with Ray.
Ray Burrows.
376
00:16:26,486 --> 00:16:27,931
Mr. Burrows
works here, too?
377
00:16:27,988 --> 00:16:30,332
Used to.
Not anymore.
378
00:16:30,390 --> 00:16:32,529
So you met him for
a drink. Then what?
379
00:16:32,592 --> 00:16:33,662
I went home.
380
00:16:34,594 --> 00:16:37,632
Mr. Turner, we know that
you followed Mr. Reddick in a taxi.
381
00:16:38,098 --> 00:16:41,204
Then you know
I'm telling the truth about going home.
382
00:16:41,268 --> 00:16:44,272
We think
you know more about what happened than that.
383
00:16:45,772 --> 00:16:48,275
Are you gonna tell us
or am I gonna slap cuffs on you?
384
00:16:50,777 --> 00:16:52,552
We came out of the bar.
385
00:16:53,413 --> 00:16:55,154
Ray got a cab.
386
00:16:56,016 --> 00:16:57,723
This other guy
walks up to it.
387
00:16:57,784 --> 00:16:58,922
BRISCOE:
Thomas Reddick.
388
00:16:58,985 --> 00:17:00,987
The black guy
who got killed.
389
00:17:01,054 --> 00:17:02,795
I didn't know his name.
390
00:17:04,191 --> 00:17:07,570
He starts to get in,
Ray puts an arm on him, tells him that's our cab.
391
00:17:08,895 --> 00:17:10,636
It just escalated
from there.
392
00:17:11,798 --> 00:17:13,072
Wait a minute.
393
00:17:13,133 --> 00:17:15,113
You're telling us
that this whole thing
394
00:17:15,168 --> 00:17:17,011
was because of
an argument over a taxi?
395
00:17:19,139 --> 00:17:20,379
Yeah.
396
00:17:23,410 --> 00:17:25,913
Great. Search warrant's
in the building.
397
00:17:26,179 --> 00:17:28,557
Now, we're sure
Turner's not gonna tip off his friend?
398
00:17:28,615 --> 00:17:30,686
Not from the jail cell
we got him sitting in.
399
00:17:30,751 --> 00:17:32,924
We're holding him for
a material witness order.
400
00:17:32,986 --> 00:17:34,897
Figure it's better
to be safe than sorry
401
00:17:34,955 --> 00:17:36,263
till the warrant
gets here.
402
00:17:36,323 --> 00:17:39,133
And this whole thing
comes out of a dispute over a cab?
403
00:17:39,192 --> 00:17:40,762
BRISCOE: Looks that way.
404
00:17:40,827 --> 00:17:42,204
Here's the warrant,
Lieutenant,
405
00:17:42,262 --> 00:17:43,935
signed, sealed and delivered.
406
00:17:43,997 --> 00:17:45,499
VAN BUREN: Thanks.
407
00:17:46,967 --> 00:17:48,776
Ain't this something?
408
00:17:48,835 --> 00:17:52,408
Black man finally gets a cab
in this city and gets killed for it.
409
00:17:56,776 --> 00:17:58,016
BURROWS:
This is way out of line.
410
00:17:58,078 --> 00:18:00,991
Most people would say
killing a man for a taxi is way out of line.
411
00:18:01,047 --> 00:18:03,357
Yeah, most people don't know
their ass from their elbow.
412
00:18:03,416 --> 00:18:05,521
You know your ass
from your elbow, Detective?
413
00:18:05,585 --> 00:18:06,996
I know an ass
when I see one.
414
00:18:07,053 --> 00:18:08,123
Well, I'll tell you
what, Tonto,
415
00:18:08,188 --> 00:18:10,031
if that's
all you've got, then get the hell out.
416
00:18:10,090 --> 00:18:11,535
I have a date tonight.
417
00:18:11,591 --> 00:18:13,901
Yeah, I bet you're
a real pistol, too.
418
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:15,132
Hey, Ed.
ED: Yeah?
419
00:18:15,428 --> 00:18:17,237
Rounds for a 9mm.
420
00:18:17,297 --> 00:18:19,937
Oh, now you can show us
where the gun is, Kemosabe.
421
00:18:20,267 --> 00:18:21,268
I don't have a gun.
422
00:18:21,334 --> 00:18:24,144
Oh, no?
What do you do, throw the bullets?
423
00:18:24,204 --> 00:18:25,512
ED: Lennie.
424
00:18:30,143 --> 00:18:31,281
Take this.
425
00:18:34,114 --> 00:18:36,253
Put your hands
behind your back. No, not for you.
426
00:18:36,316 --> 00:18:37,317
For him.
427
00:18:37,384 --> 00:18:39,330
You'll do whatever the hell
I tell you to do.
428
00:18:39,386 --> 00:18:40,729
Now, turn around.
429
00:18:41,955 --> 00:18:43,093
(LAUGHS)
430
00:18:43,156 --> 00:18:44,499
I want to see my lawyer.
431
00:18:44,591 --> 00:18:46,468
Oh, sure.
We'll just step outside
432
00:18:46,526 --> 00:18:48,802
and my partner here
will flag you a cab.
433
00:18:48,862 --> 00:18:50,000
ED: Come on.
434
00:18:54,701 --> 00:18:58,843
Ballistics matched the gun
as the weapon that killed Mr. Reddick.
435
00:18:58,905 --> 00:19:00,714
Burrows make
any statements about the shooting?
436
00:19:00,774 --> 00:19:04,051
Never got a chance to.
The guy lawyered up first thing.
437
00:19:04,110 --> 00:19:05,885
SERENA: He's got no
prior criminal history.
438
00:19:05,946 --> 00:19:08,893
And we also
haven't been able to establish any contact
439
00:19:08,949 --> 00:19:12,362
between him and Reddick
prior to the argument over the cab.
440
00:19:12,619 --> 00:19:14,496
So what's the theory?
He just snapped?
441
00:19:14,554 --> 00:19:17,091
According to Turner,
they followed the victim's cab
442
00:19:17,157 --> 00:19:19,831
for almost 20 minutes
before the attack.
443
00:19:20,594 --> 00:19:23,404
Which should have been
plenty of time to cool off.
444
00:19:24,431 --> 00:19:26,001
What the hell's
his problem?
445
00:19:26,066 --> 00:19:28,672
We think
he killed this man because he was black.
446
00:19:29,736 --> 00:19:31,943
The guy went crazy
when I tried to cuff him.
447
00:19:32,005 --> 00:19:33,109
SERENA:
So it's a hate crime.
448
00:19:33,173 --> 00:19:35,653
VAN BUREN: Look, the man's
walking around with a loaded 9mm,
449
00:19:35,709 --> 00:19:37,655
uses it
without provocation.
450
00:19:37,878 --> 00:19:39,414
May not have
been premeditated,
451
00:19:39,479 --> 00:19:42,187
but it sure seems
pretty damned calculated.
452
00:19:45,752 --> 00:19:48,858
My client's been
completely cooperative with this investigation.
453
00:19:48,922 --> 00:19:50,959
Which is the only reason
he hasn't been indicted.
454
00:19:51,024 --> 00:19:54,494
Indicted for what?
Scott never even got out of that cab.
455
00:19:54,561 --> 00:19:56,370
Look, I told you
what happened.
456
00:19:56,630 --> 00:19:59,270
But you haven't told us
why it happened, Mr. Turner.
457
00:19:59,332 --> 00:20:02,643
Yeah, like why your friend
Ray was walkin' around with a gun.
458
00:20:02,702 --> 00:20:03,737
I never saw a gun.
459
00:20:03,803 --> 00:20:05,646
ED: Yeah, but you knew
he had one.
460
00:20:05,705 --> 00:20:07,480
That's why you and Ray
were so brave that night.
461
00:20:07,540 --> 00:20:10,851
SHIELDS: Look,
I represent this man as a material witness.
462
00:20:10,911 --> 00:20:12,720
If he's becoming a target
in this investigation,
463
00:20:12,779 --> 00:20:14,417
he has a right to know.
464
00:20:14,481 --> 00:20:16,017
You knew your friend.
465
00:20:16,082 --> 00:20:18,028
You heard him
ask the driver to follow the victim.
466
00:20:18,084 --> 00:20:20,462
Don't pretend
you had no idea what would happen.
467
00:20:24,190 --> 00:20:25,567
What are you after?
468
00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,169
All statements made
by Ray Burrows during the initial altercation
469
00:20:29,229 --> 00:20:31,402
with the victim and
throughout the cab ride.
470
00:20:31,464 --> 00:20:33,603
In other words,
we want to know if your buddy Ray
471
00:20:33,667 --> 00:20:35,044
called him a nigger.
472
00:20:40,273 --> 00:20:42,583
Turner says Burrows used
repeated racial epithets
473
00:20:42,642 --> 00:20:45,088
during the argument
and throughout the cab ride.
474
00:20:46,379 --> 00:20:47,483
What about at the scene?
475
00:20:47,547 --> 00:20:49,083
There's no eyewitness.
476
00:20:50,183 --> 00:20:53,596
Which means that his lawyer
can argue that racist or not,
477
00:20:53,653 --> 00:20:55,530
this was just
a crime of opportunity.
478
00:20:55,588 --> 00:20:58,091
Not if we can show Burrows
has been involved in other incidents.
479
00:20:58,158 --> 00:21:01,071
Turner mentioned
another altercation with a black salesman at work.
480
00:21:01,127 --> 00:21:02,162
Talk to him.
481
00:21:02,228 --> 00:21:05,505
Before we play the race card,
I want to see the whole deck.
482
00:21:09,603 --> 00:21:12,516
I'm not surprised.
Frankly, it was only a matter of time.
483
00:21:12,572 --> 00:21:14,882
What makes you say that?
484
00:21:14,941 --> 00:21:17,182
A few months ago,
Burrows barged into my office
485
00:21:17,244 --> 00:21:19,724
and accused me
of stealing a client.
486
00:21:19,779 --> 00:21:21,349
Why did he think that?
487
00:21:21,414 --> 00:21:23,087
The client was black.
488
00:21:23,149 --> 00:21:25,789
Apparently he thought
Ray was condescending.
489
00:21:25,852 --> 00:21:27,729
So what happened?
490
00:21:27,787 --> 00:21:29,858
The manager reassigned
the client to me,
491
00:21:29,923 --> 00:21:31,732
and when Burrows found out,
he hit the roof.
492
00:21:31,791 --> 00:21:33,634
He started screaming that
we were all out to get him.
493
00:21:33,693 --> 00:21:35,138
You know, black people.
494
00:21:35,795 --> 00:21:39,902
And he called me
an affirmative action incompetent
495
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,106
and few other things
I'd rather not repeat.
496
00:21:43,503 --> 00:21:45,380
What did you do?
497
00:21:45,438 --> 00:21:49,386
I was about to smack him
in his mouth only that's when I saw his gun.
498
00:21:50,477 --> 00:21:52,150
He had a gun?
499
00:21:52,212 --> 00:21:53,691
In his waistband.
500
00:21:53,747 --> 00:21:55,192
Pulled back his jacket
so I could see it.
501
00:21:55,248 --> 00:21:56,318
What did you do?
502
00:21:56,383 --> 00:21:58,294
I backed the hell off.
503
00:21:58,351 --> 00:22:01,195
I mean,
I thought he was going to shoot me.
504
00:22:01,254 --> 00:22:03,632
And then something
caught his attention and he walked out.
505
00:22:03,957 --> 00:22:05,561
Did you report
this to anyone?
506
00:22:05,625 --> 00:22:07,229
Told the boss.
507
00:22:07,293 --> 00:22:08,294
What was done?
508
00:22:09,262 --> 00:22:10,741
Burrows was fired.
509
00:22:12,365 --> 00:22:16,245
You know,
it took me over a month before I could sleep again.
510
00:22:17,771 --> 00:22:19,444
I still think about it.
511
00:22:22,876 --> 00:22:25,789
The incident
with the co-worker was not an isolated event.
512
00:22:25,845 --> 00:22:28,018
Pretty much everybody
I spoke to said the same thing.
513
00:22:28,081 --> 00:22:31,426
Burrows goes out of his
way to let people know how he feels.
514
00:22:31,985 --> 00:22:34,465
He even
wrote a letter to his co-op board
515
00:22:34,521 --> 00:22:37,661
trying to get them
to reject a couple buying an apartment in his building.
516
00:22:39,025 --> 00:22:42,199
Apparently Mr. Burrows
has a problem with interracial couples.
517
00:22:42,929 --> 00:22:45,569
You'd at least think
he'd try to be subtle.
518
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,905
Call his lawyer.
Set up a meeting.
519
00:22:49,636 --> 00:22:51,377
We're going
with a hate crime.
520
00:22:52,472 --> 00:22:53,712
(SIGHS)
521
00:22:55,708 --> 00:22:58,211
He deserves all the time
we can give him.
522
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:02,086
ARCHER: You can't be serious.
523
00:23:02,382 --> 00:23:04,419
That's five years on
top of the murder charge.
524
00:23:04,484 --> 00:23:07,658
Your client hunted down
a total stranger, killed him in cold blood.
525
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:09,256
Offer's 20-to-life.
526
00:23:09,322 --> 00:23:12,599
It was rage reaction
to a dispute over a taxi.
527
00:23:13,326 --> 00:23:16,500
He followed this man
through traffic for over 20 minutes.
528
00:23:16,563 --> 00:23:19,203
Engaged in conversation,
paid the driver.
529
00:23:19,265 --> 00:23:22,769
There's more than sufficient
attenuation to preclude any rage defense.
530
00:23:22,836 --> 00:23:24,611
He's got
no criminal record.
531
00:23:24,971 --> 00:23:27,747
Well, then,
he hit the jackpot the first time out.
532
00:23:28,541 --> 00:23:30,487
At least let's take
the hate crime off the table.
533
00:23:30,543 --> 00:23:33,183
Mr. Burrows put it
on the table in the first place.
534
00:23:33,246 --> 00:23:34,418
In writing.
535
00:23:36,716 --> 00:23:39,162
Which leaves me no choice
but to do the same.
536
00:23:39,219 --> 00:23:41,563
You'll have my motion
by the end of the day.
537
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,568
Not only can't they
link this co-op board letter to the homicide,
538
00:23:49,629 --> 00:23:51,233
but they can't establish
that the crime
539
00:23:51,297 --> 00:23:52,867
had anything to
do with race at all.
540
00:23:52,932 --> 00:23:55,071
We can
show a history of racist attitudes
541
00:23:55,135 --> 00:23:57,081
and the statements
he made in the cab.
542
00:23:57,136 --> 00:24:00,117
Your Honor, this letter
would be so inflammatory. It would be so prejudicial.
543
00:24:00,173 --> 00:24:01,311
That's exactly the point.
544
00:24:01,374 --> 00:24:03,115
The hate crime statute
requires us to prove
545
00:24:03,176 --> 00:24:05,656
that the victim was targeted
because of his race.
546
00:24:06,279 --> 00:24:10,694
This letter provides a jury
with a context to evaluate the defendant's motive.
547
00:24:11,918 --> 00:24:13,261
Let it in.
548
00:24:13,319 --> 00:24:15,230
Ray.
No, I'm tired of all of this.
549
00:24:15,288 --> 00:24:17,268
Tired of hiding.
I did the right thing.
550
00:24:17,891 --> 00:24:19,893
Your Honor, please,
I'd like to call for an immediate adjournment.
551
00:24:19,959 --> 00:24:21,233
I don't want
an adjournment.
552
00:24:21,294 --> 00:24:24,537
What I want is
for a jury to hear why I shot the bastard.
553
00:24:24,597 --> 00:24:26,702
Judge, I object to
this entire proceeding.
554
00:24:26,766 --> 00:24:28,575
It's your own motion,
Mr. Archer.
555
00:24:29,369 --> 00:24:31,315
BURROWS: Let 'em
see that letter, Judge.
556
00:24:31,371 --> 00:24:34,147
Let a jury hear
the truth for once.
557
00:24:34,207 --> 00:24:35,709
Once a jury
of my peers does,
558
00:24:35,808 --> 00:24:39,483
they'll see that
we're the ones on the endangered species list.
559
00:24:39,546 --> 00:24:42,083
Obviously I have to
consult with my client.
560
00:24:42,148 --> 00:24:44,788
JUDGE: Talk to him about
anything you want, Counselor.
561
00:24:44,851 --> 00:24:46,228
I've heard enough.
562
00:24:47,387 --> 00:24:50,459
The defendant's letter
to the co-op board comes in.
563
00:24:51,424 --> 00:24:55,873
The defendant's history
of his racist attitudes comes in.
564
00:24:56,396 --> 00:24:59,468
But what I will not do
is allow the People
565
00:24:59,532 --> 00:25:03,036
to use
what your client just said right here.
566
00:25:05,905 --> 00:25:08,784
You're sure this wasn't
some sort of stunt his lawyer pulled?
567
00:25:08,842 --> 00:25:11,448
Archer did everything
but stuff a sock in his mouth.
568
00:25:11,511 --> 00:25:14,082
Well, maybe he should have.
He just walked into a five-year enhancement
569
00:25:14,147 --> 00:25:16,627
of the murder charge.
What is he, nuts?
570
00:25:16,683 --> 00:25:18,390
You may not be far off.
571
00:25:18,451 --> 00:25:22,024
Archer just filed notice
of his intent to offer psychiatric evidence.
572
00:25:22,622 --> 00:25:24,101
An insanity defense.
573
00:25:24,424 --> 00:25:26,199
Based on what?
Racism.
574
00:25:26,693 --> 00:25:30,607
He claims Burrows' hatred
of blacks rises to some sort of paranoid delusion.
575
00:25:31,331 --> 00:25:33,868
The only delusion here
is Archer's.
576
00:25:36,402 --> 00:25:38,712
I have a duty to defend
my client any way I see fit.
577
00:25:38,771 --> 00:25:39,909
Within the bounds of law.
578
00:25:39,973 --> 00:25:42,852
Racism has never been
legally recognized as a mental defect.
579
00:25:43,676 --> 00:25:47,681
I now have an expert witness,
Your Honor, and he's willing to testify.
580
00:25:47,747 --> 00:25:49,624
Some rent-a-doc,
Mr. Archer?
581
00:25:49,749 --> 00:25:52,195
No, a psychiatrist from
the Yale Medical School
582
00:25:52,652 --> 00:25:54,222
and an African-American.
583
00:25:54,287 --> 00:25:57,200
JUDGE: And he will testify
to exactly what, Mr. Archer?
584
00:25:57,256 --> 00:26:01,762
That extreme racism is
a form of mental illness that should be recognized
585
00:26:01,828 --> 00:26:04,900
by the Diagnostic
and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.
586
00:26:04,964 --> 00:26:06,739
Meaning that it isn't.
587
00:26:06,799 --> 00:26:11,771
I'm not going to have
my court turned upside down with speculation, Counselor.
588
00:26:11,838 --> 00:26:15,479
A Massachusetts court
has already accepted the theory
589
00:26:15,541 --> 00:26:18,920
that racially paranoid
beliefs constitute a mental defect.
590
00:26:20,013 --> 00:26:22,892
Look, all I am asking
is for a chance to present my case.
591
00:26:22,949 --> 00:26:25,555
What he's asking for
is a free pass.
592
00:26:25,618 --> 00:26:29,566
He does have the right
to use any defense cognizable at law.
593
00:26:29,622 --> 00:26:32,569
And like it or not,
this one is.
594
00:26:36,696 --> 00:26:40,337
No jury in New York's going
to buy an insanity defense from an admitted racist.
595
00:26:40,433 --> 00:26:42,470
It gets a little easier
when judges let experts
596
00:26:42,535 --> 00:26:44,412
testify he's delusional.
597
00:26:44,470 --> 00:26:46,006
Try selling it
to a black juror.
598
00:26:46,072 --> 00:26:48,643
Only takes one
to hang a jury, Jack.
599
00:26:48,708 --> 00:26:51,120
Have you taken a look
at their expert's CV?
600
00:26:51,177 --> 00:26:52,850
I mean, this psychiatrist
is no quack.
601
00:26:53,513 --> 00:26:56,392
If he believes what's in his
own report, he's not far off.
602
00:26:56,949 --> 00:26:59,930
Why? Because psychiatry
doesn't agree with him?
603
00:27:00,420 --> 00:27:02,058
You know,
at one time or another
604
00:27:02,121 --> 00:27:04,328
there was no precedent for
most of the mental disorders
605
00:27:04,390 --> 00:27:05,767
we now allow in court.
606
00:27:05,825 --> 00:27:08,032
JACK: And I've spent
more than 20 years in this office
607
00:27:08,094 --> 00:27:10,301
making sure there are
less of them, not more.
608
00:27:11,331 --> 00:27:13,675
The last time,
it was a black defendant
609
00:27:13,733 --> 00:27:16,577
trying to justify
a murder on black rage.
610
00:27:16,636 --> 00:27:18,547
I'd no more accept
that nonsense than this.
611
00:27:19,405 --> 00:27:22,909
Yeah, the irony is though
if there's any truth to this theory,
612
00:27:23,710 --> 00:27:28,022
and if we'd been
treating racism as a mental illness all along,
613
00:27:28,581 --> 00:27:30,618
maybe we wouldn't
have a Ray Burrows.
614
00:27:30,917 --> 00:27:32,658
Or there'd be more of them.
615
00:27:33,753 --> 00:27:35,096
The only way
to prevent that
616
00:27:35,154 --> 00:27:37,225
is to hold people
responsible for their actions.
617
00:27:45,098 --> 00:27:47,578
You know what I read
that crystallized it for me?
618
00:27:47,634 --> 00:27:49,671
Why don't you tell me?
619
00:27:49,736 --> 00:27:53,081
An account by a guy who
went around shooting MRCs.
620
00:27:54,273 --> 00:27:55,616
MRCs?
621
00:27:56,409 --> 00:27:58,320
Mixed racial couples.
622
00:28:01,114 --> 00:28:05,153
See the key is,
he always had to shoot the black guy first
623
00:28:05,485 --> 00:28:07,965
if he was going
to shoot them both.
624
00:28:08,021 --> 00:28:10,001
Why is that, Ray?
625
00:28:10,056 --> 00:28:11,899
Because if he shot
the white woman first,
626
00:28:11,958 --> 00:28:14,131
then the black man
would just run away.
627
00:28:14,494 --> 00:28:19,534
But if he shot him first,
then the white woman would stay to help.
628
00:28:20,566 --> 00:28:22,773
Then the shooter
could get them both.
629
00:28:24,837 --> 00:28:27,545
The point is you believe
black men are cowards.
630
00:28:27,607 --> 00:28:31,282
Well, the empirical evidence
seems to bear that out, wouldn't you say?
631
00:28:31,344 --> 00:28:34,018
I'm more interested
in what you have to say.
632
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,082
You're aware your lawyer's
claiming you're delusional
633
00:28:36,149 --> 00:28:37,822
because you hold
just these kinds of views?
634
00:28:37,884 --> 00:28:39,056
(MUTTERS)
635
00:28:39,118 --> 00:28:41,325
Well, I'm not delusional.
Anyone who doesn't see
636
00:28:41,387 --> 00:28:44,197
that this country's being
taken away from guys like you and me
637
00:28:44,257 --> 00:28:46,032
is the one
who's delusional.
638
00:28:47,293 --> 00:28:50,297
You think minorities
are out to get you, Mr. Burrows?
639
00:28:51,197 --> 00:28:53,370
We both know that they are.
640
00:28:55,334 --> 00:28:57,780
Don't tell me
that if you were about to get on an airplane
641
00:28:57,837 --> 00:29:00,443
and there was
an Arab in line that you wouldn't check him out
642
00:29:00,506 --> 00:29:02,782
just a little bit harder?
643
00:29:04,644 --> 00:29:06,624
Is that delusion, Doc?
644
00:29:10,550 --> 00:29:12,427
What's your impression
of him?
645
00:29:12,485 --> 00:29:15,022
In my opinion,
Ray Burrows is one scary dude.
646
00:29:15,087 --> 00:29:17,897
But he fully appreciated
the nature of his actions.
647
00:29:17,957 --> 00:29:19,527
You're basing this
on what?
648
00:29:19,592 --> 00:29:22,505
The fact that racism
is not a mental illness.
649
00:29:22,562 --> 00:29:24,269
Yale shrink
or no Yale shrink.
650
00:29:24,364 --> 00:29:25,968
No matter how severe
his delusions are
651
00:29:26,032 --> 00:29:28,137
that black people
pose a threat to him?
652
00:29:28,201 --> 00:29:30,181
Mr. Burrows
could use a course in anger management,
653
00:29:30,236 --> 00:29:32,614
but he definitely knew
what he'd done was wrong.
654
00:29:32,672 --> 00:29:36,347
Believe me, nobody tries
that hard to convince me they're right otherwise.
655
00:29:40,346 --> 00:29:42,326
So what did Skoda
have to say?
656
00:29:42,381 --> 00:29:43,792
What we expected.
657
00:29:44,684 --> 00:29:46,061
Do you agree with him?
658
00:29:46,119 --> 00:29:47,598
I'm just second chair.
659
00:29:47,653 --> 00:29:49,530
Oh, you don't
have an opinion?
660
00:29:52,158 --> 00:29:56,971
An opinion about whether
a racist should escape responsibility for murder?
661
00:30:00,900 --> 00:30:03,141
(CLEARS THROAT)
You mean you want the truth?
662
00:30:04,937 --> 00:30:06,575
I've been with Jack
for about six months,
663
00:30:06,639 --> 00:30:10,917
and all I ever hear
are people making excuses about killing other people.
664
00:30:12,078 --> 00:30:13,614
We have to
hold them accountable.
665
00:30:14,514 --> 00:30:16,721
So you'd just dismiss
treatment options?
666
00:30:16,783 --> 00:30:19,889
You make it sound like there
are treatment options for racists.
667
00:30:20,186 --> 00:30:21,494
There aren't.
668
00:30:21,554 --> 00:30:23,659
No. There may never be.
669
00:30:24,490 --> 00:30:26,401
But still, you know,
you can't let fear
670
00:30:26,459 --> 00:30:28,598
dictate your decisions
about criminal justice.
671
00:30:28,895 --> 00:30:31,899
Everyone's afraid, Nora.
I'm afraid.
672
00:30:33,232 --> 00:30:35,542
And it just seems like
after what happened with the Towers,
673
00:30:35,601 --> 00:30:39,708
the last thing we want to do
is give people a blank check to act on their hatred.
674
00:30:42,108 --> 00:30:44,145
That's interesting.
675
00:30:48,214 --> 00:30:52,185
Doctor, is it your opinion
that at the time of the crime
676
00:30:52,251 --> 00:30:54,857
my client suffered
from a mental disease
677
00:30:54,954 --> 00:30:58,026
which precluded his capacity
to appreciate right from wrong?
678
00:30:58,291 --> 00:30:59,292
Yes, it is.
679
00:30:59,358 --> 00:31:00,632
And what was
that mental defect?
680
00:31:00,693 --> 00:31:01,728
Racism.
681
00:31:01,794 --> 00:31:03,171
That is
an extreme belief
682
00:31:03,229 --> 00:31:06,267
that a racial group poses
a threat, unsupported by reality.
683
00:31:06,332 --> 00:31:09,472
Hmm. So what
about Ray Burrows?
684
00:31:09,535 --> 00:31:12,607
I believe
his racist attitudes so interfered with his behavior
685
00:31:12,672 --> 00:31:13,946
that he thought
that killing Mr. Reddick
686
00:31:14,006 --> 00:31:16,885
was not only not wrong,
it actually was justified.
687
00:31:16,943 --> 00:31:19,480
You're not saying
we shouldn't hold him accountable?
688
00:31:19,545 --> 00:31:21,616
I'm saying
he's in need of psychiatric help.
689
00:31:21,981 --> 00:31:23,824
If we want to do anything
about prevention,
690
00:31:23,883 --> 00:31:26,625
we must consider racism
as a form of mental disorder.
691
00:31:27,353 --> 00:31:28,855
Thank you, Doctor.
692
00:31:33,592 --> 00:31:35,697
What about blacks
killing whites?
693
00:31:35,761 --> 00:31:37,638
It doesn't matter
who kills whom.
694
00:31:37,697 --> 00:31:40,940
Not as long
as the individual suffers from racist delusions.
695
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,276
You're not suggesting
that African-Americans
696
00:31:43,336 --> 00:31:45,373
haven't been discriminated
against in this country?
697
00:31:45,438 --> 00:31:46,781
Of course not.
698
00:31:46,839 --> 00:31:50,082
Meaning that
you wouldn't consider those perceptions delusional.
699
00:31:50,943 --> 00:31:52,581
Perhaps not.
700
00:31:52,645 --> 00:31:53,885
So whites would be
the only ones
701
00:31:53,946 --> 00:31:56,256
who could benefit
from this diagnosis.
702
00:31:57,516 --> 00:32:01,726
You also maintain
the defendant believes that what he did was right.
703
00:32:01,787 --> 00:32:02,993
Yes.
704
00:32:03,456 --> 00:32:06,528
How is it then
that he concealed his crime from the police?
705
00:32:06,592 --> 00:32:09,698
Society doesn't
encourage people to admit being racist.
706
00:32:09,762 --> 00:32:12,072
If fact, we ostracize them
when they do.
707
00:32:12,131 --> 00:32:15,806
We did the same thing to
people suffering from cancer in the '50s,
708
00:32:15,868 --> 00:32:17,506
AIDS in the '80s.
709
00:32:17,570 --> 00:32:20,312
You'd compare a racist
to a cancer patient?
710
00:32:20,373 --> 00:32:23,252
Only in the way
society considers them.
711
00:32:23,309 --> 00:32:26,722
Consider that Mr. Burrows
wrote a racist letter to his co-op board.
712
00:32:26,779 --> 00:32:28,315
Nobody said
anything to him.
713
00:32:28,381 --> 00:32:30,122
Now, had he said
he was suffering from depression,
714
00:32:30,182 --> 00:32:33,095
they may very
well have recommended psychological treatment.
715
00:32:33,152 --> 00:32:35,826
Only there is no treatment
for the racist.
716
00:32:35,888 --> 00:32:38,835
Because your view has
been specifically rejected
717
00:32:38,891 --> 00:32:41,371
by the American
Psychiatric Association.
718
00:32:41,427 --> 00:32:42,906
Unfortunately, yes.
719
00:32:42,962 --> 00:32:47,104
In fact, racism isn't
mentioned anywhere in the DSM-IV,
720
00:32:47,166 --> 00:32:48,509
is it, Doctor?
721
00:32:48,567 --> 00:32:50,410
Until 1974,
722
00:32:50,469 --> 00:32:53,678
being gay was considered
a mental disorder in this very book.
723
00:32:53,739 --> 00:32:58,313
Until a consensus was
formed among psychiatrists that its inclusion was wrong.
724
00:32:59,545 --> 00:33:02,822
But there's no consensus
for what you're proposing, is there, Doctor?
725
00:33:02,882 --> 00:33:04,725
Not at this time, no.
726
00:33:04,784 --> 00:33:08,630
A great many people think
negative thoughts about other people,
727
00:33:09,088 --> 00:33:11,534
but they don't break
the law because of them.
728
00:33:11,590 --> 00:33:14,867
But when racist thoughts
are coupled with threats of violence,
729
00:33:14,927 --> 00:33:17,737
that moves into the territory
of mental illness.
730
00:33:17,797 --> 00:33:20,175
So it's
outcome determinative.
731
00:33:20,232 --> 00:33:22,610
The racist's views
become delusional
732
00:33:22,668 --> 00:33:25,239
only when they escalate
into an act of violence.
733
00:33:25,671 --> 00:33:29,642
When the racist's mental
processes interfere with normal functioning.
734
00:33:30,976 --> 00:33:34,048
Without regard to
whether Mr. Burrows
735
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:38,786
was actually able to
appreciate the nature of his actions or not.
736
00:33:43,856 --> 00:33:45,802
It's a theory
in search of a patient.
737
00:33:47,593 --> 00:33:50,802
I know firsthand what it is
to experience prejudice, Mr. McCoy.
738
00:33:51,831 --> 00:33:55,040
But if we continue to
deny racism as a form of mental illness
739
00:33:55,634 --> 00:33:57,409
and attack it solely
on cultural grounds,
740
00:33:57,470 --> 00:33:59,848
we lose any chance
to treat it.
741
00:34:00,639 --> 00:34:02,084
No, sir.
742
00:34:02,141 --> 00:34:05,782
By creating an excuse,
we lose any chance to punish it.
743
00:34:15,354 --> 00:34:16,958
In my opinion,
at the time of the crime,
744
00:34:17,023 --> 00:34:20,698
Ray Burrows was oriented
to reality and able to control his actions.
745
00:34:21,193 --> 00:34:23,366
So you disagree with
Dr. Bernard's theory
746
00:34:23,429 --> 00:34:26,433
that racism qualifies
as a delusional disorder.
747
00:34:26,499 --> 00:34:29,309
It's pretty much
the entire psychiatric community.
748
00:34:30,336 --> 00:34:32,316
I mean,
if we're going to say everyone who espouses
749
00:34:32,371 --> 00:34:34,578
bigoted beliefs
has a mental illness,
750
00:34:34,940 --> 00:34:38,285
we stretch the term
mental illness beyond any usefulness.
751
00:34:38,344 --> 00:34:41,120
What about his assertion
that racism can be treated?
752
00:34:41,180 --> 00:34:42,591
How? Through
talk therapy?
753
00:34:42,648 --> 00:34:45,492
I doubt
that's likely to be very effective.
754
00:34:45,918 --> 00:34:48,660
Racism simply
is not a matter of individual pathology.
755
00:34:48,721 --> 00:34:51,702
That's why it's not
included in the DSM-IV.
756
00:34:53,025 --> 00:34:54,299
Nothing further.
757
00:34:56,095 --> 00:35:00,009
So, exactly what
research was done
758
00:35:00,066 --> 00:35:02,774
prior to removing
homosexuality from the DSM-IV?
759
00:35:03,035 --> 00:35:04,639
A consensus was reached
760
00:35:04,703 --> 00:35:07,946
that homosexuality didn't
meet the criteria for a mental disease.
761
00:35:08,007 --> 00:35:11,853
Well, the fact is, it was
a social policy decision, wasn't it, Doctor?
762
00:35:11,911 --> 00:35:14,824
The decision
wasn't based on any research at all.
763
00:35:15,681 --> 00:35:19,094
Now, what about racism?
What's the research being done there?
764
00:35:19,151 --> 00:35:21,222
I'm not aware of
any research being done.
765
00:35:21,287 --> 00:35:24,234
Again, because
the psychiatric community
766
00:35:24,290 --> 00:35:26,998
continually rejects
proposals to study the issue.
767
00:35:28,027 --> 00:35:31,702
Which means that any lack
of inclusion of racism
768
00:35:31,764 --> 00:35:34,244
as a mental illness
in this book,
769
00:35:34,533 --> 00:35:36,570
has very little
to do with science
770
00:35:36,635 --> 00:35:39,673
and almost everything
to do with politics.
771
00:35:46,245 --> 00:35:48,486
They say I'm sick.
I don't know.
772
00:35:48,547 --> 00:35:51,084
All I can tell you
is that I feel pretty good about what I did.
773
00:35:51,317 --> 00:35:54,560
About killing Mr. Reddick?
That's right.
774
00:35:54,620 --> 00:35:57,726
Social courtesies mean
nothing to these people.
775
00:35:57,790 --> 00:35:59,360
I mean, you ever
try to see a movie
776
00:35:59,425 --> 00:36:00,927
with black people
in the audience?
777
00:36:00,993 --> 00:36:02,597
You can't hear a thing.
778
00:36:03,362 --> 00:36:06,809
I mean,
the sign's up there, "Please, no talking."
779
00:36:06,866 --> 00:36:08,641
But do they listen?
780
00:36:09,702 --> 00:36:11,272
When this guy jumped
in front of me like that,
781
00:36:11,337 --> 00:36:13,977
like he thought he was
better than me, that was it.
782
00:36:14,907 --> 00:36:16,352
The line was drawn.
783
00:36:17,009 --> 00:36:18,955
So what was going
through your mind?
784
00:36:19,011 --> 00:36:21,355
Here he was,
going wherever he wanted,
785
00:36:21,914 --> 00:36:24,121
doing whatever
he wanted and me...
786
00:36:25,618 --> 00:36:28,394
I mean,
they can decide they don't want to work with me,
787
00:36:28,454 --> 00:36:31,298
but I can't say
I don't want to live with them?
788
00:36:32,491 --> 00:36:35,597
I lost my job
because of these people.
789
00:36:35,661 --> 00:36:37,800
The bank is foreclosing
on my home.
790
00:36:37,863 --> 00:36:40,366
I was not about
to lose that cab.
791
00:36:49,041 --> 00:36:53,285
You feel justified
taking Mr. Reddick's life because he took your cab?
792
00:36:53,345 --> 00:36:54,722
That's right.
793
00:36:58,317 --> 00:37:00,388
Then why didn't you tell
your friend what you'd done?
794
00:37:00,853 --> 00:37:02,833
Why didn't you
tell the police?
795
00:37:02,888 --> 00:37:04,333
They never asked.
796
00:37:04,390 --> 00:37:06,028
Because you requested
a lawyer.
797
00:37:07,226 --> 00:37:09,137
Because from
the very start,
798
00:37:09,195 --> 00:37:12,039
you were
looking for a way out, weren't you, Mr. Burrows?
799
00:37:12,097 --> 00:37:14,509
Because you didn't want
to pay for what you'd done.
800
00:37:14,567 --> 00:37:15,875
Not true.
801
00:37:17,236 --> 00:37:21,309
But you made
Mr. Reddick pay. Pay with his life.
802
00:37:23,742 --> 00:37:26,848
And then you dragged
his body down those steps
803
00:37:26,912 --> 00:37:28,414
to hide your crime.
804
00:37:29,048 --> 00:37:30,322
I dragged his body
down there
805
00:37:30,382 --> 00:37:33,056
because that's where
the rest of the garbage was.
806
00:37:37,089 --> 00:37:40,434
Not all the garbage,
Mr. Burrows, not all the garbage.
807
00:37:40,492 --> 00:37:42,369
ARCHER: Objection.
JUDGE: Sustained.
808
00:37:52,338 --> 00:37:55,114
Do you think that
African-Americans pose a threat?
809
00:37:56,041 --> 00:37:57,748
I know they do.
810
00:37:57,810 --> 00:38:00,450
But you've come
into contact with other black people
811
00:38:00,513 --> 00:38:01,890
before Mr. Reddick.
812
00:38:01,947 --> 00:38:03,426
You never killed them.
813
00:38:07,686 --> 00:38:09,859
What about this juror?
814
00:38:12,491 --> 00:38:15,233
She's been here
for the entire trial,
815
00:38:15,294 --> 00:38:18,002
and yet you don't seem
to have had a problem.
816
00:38:18,063 --> 00:38:20,134
That's a very
sensible attitude
817
00:38:20,199 --> 00:38:23,612
for a man in
your position to take, isn't it, Mr. Burrows?
818
00:38:24,570 --> 00:38:27,551
Because she's helping to
decide your fate.
819
00:38:30,910 --> 00:38:32,890
So are you insane,
Mr. Burrows?
820
00:38:34,647 --> 00:38:37,992
Or are you just a man
who knows how to keep his mouth shut
821
00:38:38,050 --> 00:38:40,553
when he's supposed to
and how to lose his mind
822
00:38:40,619 --> 00:38:42,656
when his lawyer
tells him to?
823
00:38:53,299 --> 00:38:57,247
Is there anyone here who heard
what Ray Burrows said in this courtroom
824
00:38:57,303 --> 00:39:00,079
who doesn't believe
that he is sick?
825
00:39:00,139 --> 00:39:03,052
Who doesn't
find his hatred of other human beings,
826
00:39:03,375 --> 00:39:07,881
solely based on the
color of their skin, so twisted,
827
00:39:08,547 --> 00:39:11,994
so abnormal that
you wouldn't be able to find mental illness?
828
00:39:12,618 --> 00:39:16,122
My client belongs in
a psychiatric institution, not a prison.
829
00:39:16,388 --> 00:39:18,129
You know that,
you know that.
830
00:39:18,757 --> 00:39:20,668
And yet,
in a few moments,
831
00:39:20,726 --> 00:39:23,707
the D.A. is
going to ask you to forget what you know.
832
00:39:24,296 --> 00:39:25,707
Because as a prosecutor,
833
00:39:25,764 --> 00:39:29,177
he is more interested
in punishing Ray Burrows
834
00:39:29,435 --> 00:39:32,473
than he is in
preventing more people from becoming like him.
835
00:39:33,505 --> 00:39:34,984
Spare the rod,
spoil the racist.
836
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:36,917
That's how
his argument goes.
837
00:39:36,975 --> 00:39:39,751
But unless
we recognize racism
838
00:39:39,812 --> 00:39:42,759
as the delusional
mental disorder that it is,
839
00:39:43,115 --> 00:39:46,528
people like my client,
they're not going to get the treatment they need.
840
00:39:46,585 --> 00:39:50,397
Which in the final analysis
is what this case boils down to.
841
00:39:50,789 --> 00:39:52,234
Whether as a society,
842
00:39:52,825 --> 00:39:55,305
we stand
a better chance of preventing racism
843
00:39:56,361 --> 00:39:59,501
by punishing someone
who commits a racist act
844
00:40:02,401 --> 00:40:05,814
or treating them
before they can.
845
00:40:17,683 --> 00:40:18,957
I'm sorry.
846
00:40:19,017 --> 00:40:22,464
This defense
would be laughable if it weren't so dangerous.
847
00:40:23,856 --> 00:40:26,132
We live in a world
where people commit
848
00:40:26,191 --> 00:40:29,695
unspeakable violent acts
against other people.
849
00:40:30,896 --> 00:40:35,936
Terrorists, racists,
anyone who kills out of hate.
850
00:40:38,203 --> 00:40:40,376
Do we hold them accountable,
851
00:40:41,307 --> 00:40:44,720
or do we excuse their acts
and sit them down for a chat
852
00:40:45,244 --> 00:40:47,554
to tell them that it's wrong?
853
00:40:48,414 --> 00:40:51,418
In the world
the defense would create,
854
00:40:51,483 --> 00:40:54,396
murderers would
never be held responsible.
855
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,197
In that world,
right and wrong would lose all meaning.
856
00:40:59,024 --> 00:41:00,560
Killers would
become victims.
857
00:41:01,627 --> 00:41:05,040
The only one
who would benefit from the defendant
858
00:41:05,097 --> 00:41:08,476
being found mentally ill
is the defendant.
859
00:41:10,068 --> 00:41:12,014
Not society.
860
00:41:12,070 --> 00:41:13,777
Certainly not the victim.
861
00:41:16,742 --> 00:41:19,951
Not Thomas Reddick
or his family,
862
00:41:21,580 --> 00:41:24,060
or anyone else
with his skin color.
863
00:41:25,284 --> 00:41:29,824
To excuse Ray Burrows
because of his prejudice
864
00:41:30,322 --> 00:41:31,892
only promotes racism.
865
00:41:34,326 --> 00:41:36,704
What happened
to Thomas Reddick
866
00:41:36,762 --> 00:41:38,935
is a crime of hate.
867
00:41:42,301 --> 00:41:46,613
To call it anything else
is to deny justice.
868
00:41:58,951 --> 00:42:00,589
Madame Foreman,
869
00:42:01,420 --> 00:42:03,024
has the jury
reached its verdict?
870
00:42:03,455 --> 00:42:04,763
We have, Your Honor.
871
00:42:04,823 --> 00:42:06,666
Will the defendant
please rise?
872
00:42:10,662 --> 00:42:12,232
What is your verdict?
873
00:42:12,297 --> 00:42:15,835
On the charge of
Murder in the Second Degree as a Hate Crime,
874
00:42:15,901 --> 00:42:17,642
we find
the defendant guilty.
875
00:42:32,217 --> 00:42:34,424
I wonder
if Burrows will still have a problem with minorities
876
00:42:34,486 --> 00:42:36,523
once he gets to prison
and finds out he is one.
877
00:42:36,588 --> 00:42:37,794
Check back with him
in 40 years.
878
00:42:37,856 --> 00:42:40,496
By then,
he might be ready for an insanity defense.
879
00:42:40,559 --> 00:42:42,698
To kill out of hate, then
be exempt from punishment,
880
00:42:42,761 --> 00:42:44,536
that'd be
the real insanity.
881
00:42:44,586 --> 00:42:49,136
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