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00:00:12,783 --> 00:00:14,785
[buzzer blaring in distance]
4
00:00:15,494 --> 00:00:16,871
[metal door clangs]
5
00:00:20,416 --> 00:00:22,418
[indistinct chatter]
6
00:00:27,048 --> 00:00:28,507
[buzzer sounds]
7
00:00:30,718 --> 00:00:33,054
Hey, Erik. Sorry.
8
00:00:34,805 --> 00:00:37,850
It's okay. There's nothing else to do.
9
00:00:37,850 --> 00:00:42,605
Uh, I know, right? It's just terrible
you're locked up in here.
10
00:00:42,605 --> 00:00:44,940
But that is what I am here for, right?
11
00:00:46,692 --> 00:00:48,569
You don't smoke, do you?
12
00:00:48,569 --> 00:00:49,904
No, never.
13
00:00:49,904 --> 00:00:50,946
Good.
14
00:00:51,655 --> 00:00:55,534
It is a disgusting habit,
and I will never kick it. I know it.
15
00:00:55,534 --> 00:00:57,036
I wish I never started.
16
00:00:57,036 --> 00:00:59,330
Yeah, my... my dad smoked.
17
00:00:59,955 --> 00:01:01,874
- It just always disgusted me.
- Good.
18
00:01:01,874 --> 00:01:04,043
Just the smell of it in his mouth.
19
00:01:04,043 --> 00:01:06,962
Well, I always try to chew
a piece of gum afterwards.
20
00:01:06,962 --> 00:01:08,756
No, it doesn't bother me with you.
21
00:01:09,256 --> 00:01:10,216
Okay, good.
22
00:01:11,050 --> 00:01:12,927
Don't ever start, okay?
23
00:01:17,890 --> 00:01:18,724
[lighter clicks]
24
00:01:18,724 --> 00:01:19,809
[Leslie] Mmm.
25
00:01:21,894 --> 00:01:23,562
Uh. [exhales deeply]
26
00:01:25,356 --> 00:01:26,774
So...
27
00:01:26,774 --> 00:01:28,359
Yeah, so...
28
00:01:29,443 --> 00:01:30,820
How you doing in here?
29
00:01:31,904 --> 00:01:34,323
Uh, not, uh... Not great.
30
00:01:34,990 --> 00:01:37,535
Sure. But you're eating now, yeah?
31
00:01:37,535 --> 00:01:42,498
Yeah. It's more that, uh, ever since
they found that letter and Lyle got moved,
32
00:01:42,498 --> 00:01:47,086
I've been here in 7,000
by myself now, kinda.
33
00:01:47,086 --> 00:01:50,297
I... I found a friend
who's just made being in here easier,
34
00:01:50,297 --> 00:01:52,675
but, um, on Saturday, he was just gone.
35
00:01:52,675 --> 00:01:53,676
Oh no.
36
00:01:53,676 --> 00:01:58,389
Yeah, just... I don't know whether
they moved him or where he went, but...
37
00:01:58,389 --> 00:01:59,557
Well, I'm sorry.
38
00:01:59,557 --> 00:02:02,935
It was just out of nowhere,
so I've just been feeling kind of, uh...
39
00:02:03,936 --> 00:02:05,729
- Lonesome.
- Yeah.
40
00:02:05,729 --> 00:02:07,314
[Leslie exhales]
41
00:02:07,314 --> 00:02:09,066
Well, I'm sorry about that.
42
00:02:11,735 --> 00:02:14,572
And, Erik, I'm sorry about
what we have to talk about now.
43
00:02:14,572 --> 00:02:15,489
Okay.
44
00:02:15,489 --> 00:02:19,160
- Because, you know, I talked to Lyle...
- Yeah, I know.
45
00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:20,953
Lyle's lawyer, Jill, was there too,
46
00:02:20,953 --> 00:02:24,123
and I actually asked Jill if I could just
come talk to you alone today.
47
00:02:24,123 --> 00:02:25,207
Oh, okay.
48
00:02:25,708 --> 00:02:27,126
And she was okay with that.
49
00:02:28,127 --> 00:02:30,212
- I think I prefer this.
- Okay, good.
50
00:02:30,212 --> 00:02:34,884
Because I talked to Lyle
about the things you told Dr. Vicary.
51
00:02:34,884 --> 00:02:35,801
Yeah.
52
00:02:35,801 --> 00:02:40,764
And, um, you know, rough stuff with Lyle,
53
00:02:40,764 --> 00:02:45,352
but with your dad too, and...
and the objects,
54
00:02:45,352 --> 00:02:48,522
and the things that Lyle did to you,
55
00:02:48,522 --> 00:02:52,276
but also the things he knew
that were going on with you and your dad,
56
00:02:52,276 --> 00:02:56,739
and how he thought it had stopped,
and when he found out it hadn't, that--
57
00:02:56,739 --> 00:02:58,115
Yeah, all of that.
58
00:02:58,115 --> 00:03:02,620
Yeah. And Lyle told you
about his experience
59
00:03:02,620 --> 00:03:04,872
with your dad, with the abuse, yeah?
60
00:03:04,872 --> 00:03:07,333
Yes. That's what we, uh...
61
00:03:08,417 --> 00:03:11,503
In the days leading up to that night,
that's what we talked about,
62
00:03:11,503 --> 00:03:15,883
kind of for the first time,
like we were, uh, comparing notes.
63
00:03:15,883 --> 00:03:17,343
- Sure.
- I guess you could say.
64
00:03:17,343 --> 00:03:19,178
But not... not in a happy way.
65
00:03:19,178 --> 00:03:22,848
Like, it was good
to finally talk about it,
66
00:03:22,848 --> 00:03:24,767
to have it be out in the open.
67
00:03:26,101 --> 00:03:29,355
Okay. And just to ask,
just to say it out loud...
68
00:03:29,355 --> 00:03:31,023
You believe him. Yeah?
69
00:03:34,902 --> 00:03:38,030
- Yeah. I know he's telling the truth.
- Yes.
70
00:03:38,030 --> 00:03:40,491
- What? Am I supposed--
- No, so do I.
71
00:03:40,491 --> 00:03:44,870
I just... I just want to keep
underlining that for all of us is all.
72
00:03:45,829 --> 00:03:49,917
That however much you loved this man,
he was a monster.
73
00:03:49,917 --> 00:03:51,543
And that what he did was real.
74
00:03:51,543 --> 00:03:56,548
And so, you know,
I think that Lyle's point of view
75
00:03:56,548 --> 00:03:59,301
is that however bad he had it,
76
00:03:59,301 --> 00:04:02,012
and I really do get this feeling from him,
77
00:04:02,972 --> 00:04:05,140
he feels you had it worse.
78
00:04:09,395 --> 00:04:10,229
Yeah.
79
00:04:12,773 --> 00:04:15,276
- Mm-hmm.
- Yeah. It was, um, much worse.
80
00:04:16,944 --> 00:04:18,028
- Can you...
- Sure.
81
00:04:18,028 --> 00:04:22,157
I just need you right now, if you can,
to just tell me everything.
82
00:04:22,157 --> 00:04:23,951
- Yeah. Okay.
- Can you do that?
83
00:04:23,951 --> 00:04:25,035
Yeah. I can.
84
00:04:25,035 --> 00:04:26,120
Okay.
85
00:04:27,288 --> 00:04:28,122
Um...
86
00:04:31,166 --> 00:04:33,794
Where... Where should I start? I--
87
00:04:33,794 --> 00:04:35,129
I know. It's awful.
88
00:04:35,129 --> 00:04:36,297
Um...
89
00:04:37,631 --> 00:04:41,719
Well, I guess... I would just ask...
90
00:04:42,886 --> 00:04:44,680
Do you remember when it started?
91
00:04:46,265 --> 00:04:47,141
Hmm.
92
00:04:47,891 --> 00:04:49,560
Yeah, uh...
93
00:04:51,854 --> 00:04:54,023
Well, it kinda seems
like it was always happening,
94
00:04:54,023 --> 00:04:56,400
because, I mean,
I was always afraid of him.
95
00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,862
- Your dad or Lyle?
- My dad. I was never afraid of Lyle.
96
00:05:00,571 --> 00:05:04,408
I always felt like Lyle was my,
uh, my protector.
97
00:05:04,408 --> 00:05:06,243
Even when he was abusing you?
98
00:05:06,243 --> 00:05:08,120
Yeah. He... he wasn't.
99
00:05:10,581 --> 00:05:12,124
I just mean that...
100
00:05:13,083 --> 00:05:16,295
Like, my earliest memories
are of running away.
101
00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,506
You know, I was, like, five or something,
and I wouldn't get far.
102
00:05:19,506 --> 00:05:23,260
I would just get to, uh, my aunt's house
just a few blocks down.
103
00:05:23,260 --> 00:05:24,511
And it was like, um...
104
00:05:26,388 --> 00:05:29,808
Well, because that's what Lyle said
when he found out I was still...
105
00:05:30,517 --> 00:05:33,437
He was... He was like, mad, right?
106
00:05:33,437 --> 00:05:34,355
[Leslie] Hmm.
107
00:05:34,355 --> 00:05:38,317
And he said, you know,
"Erik, how could you let this happen?"
108
00:05:38,317 --> 00:05:41,278
"Do you like it or something?
'Cause you could just run away."
109
00:05:41,278 --> 00:05:44,114
I was like, "Because
they always come find me."
110
00:05:44,114 --> 00:05:47,618
Every time I tried, they would find me,
and it just would get worse. So...
111
00:05:47,618 --> 00:05:49,953
- So running away never helped?
- No. No.
112
00:05:49,953 --> 00:05:52,831
My mom and my dad and my whole family,
113
00:05:52,831 --> 00:05:55,459
they were like this octopus
that you could never escape from.
114
00:05:55,459 --> 00:05:58,796
Because their tentacles
would come and grab you?
115
00:06:00,631 --> 00:06:03,092
- Or--
- Yeah. Something like that.
116
00:06:03,717 --> 00:06:04,718
Um...
117
00:06:06,178 --> 00:06:10,140
But as far as when it started,
Lyle thinks I was six.
118
00:06:10,140 --> 00:06:12,976
And, uh, that seems right.
119
00:06:12,976 --> 00:06:15,562
- That's when your father started with him.
- Right.
120
00:06:15,562 --> 00:06:18,482
- So that makes some sense.
- Yeah. And I, uh, didn't...
121
00:06:19,858 --> 00:06:20,943
Um...
122
00:06:21,944 --> 00:06:24,113
- What?
- Well, that's when I had Coach Wadlington.
123
00:06:24,113 --> 00:06:26,198
I was six when I started with him.
124
00:06:26,198 --> 00:06:31,453
And I remember it was happening
around then, or...
125
00:06:32,371 --> 00:06:33,914
Well, the massages did.
126
00:06:36,250 --> 00:06:37,251
Erik, what?
127
00:06:38,752 --> 00:06:41,964
- It didn't start out bad, you know?
- Yeah.
128
00:06:41,964 --> 00:06:45,634
It would just be after tennis,
or after swimming, and...
129
00:06:46,677 --> 00:06:47,511
Um...
130
00:06:50,431 --> 00:06:52,683
- Mm-hmm. Go on.
- Uh... [exhaling]
131
00:06:53,308 --> 00:06:56,687
Well, I knew that my dad didn't like me.
132
00:06:57,479 --> 00:06:58,689
How do you mean?
133
00:06:58,689 --> 00:07:01,817
Just... He was always so mean.
134
00:07:02,651 --> 00:07:06,238
You know, he loved Lyle,
but he didn't love me.
135
00:07:06,238 --> 00:07:09,366
And, uh, I could tell,
but he would also say it.
136
00:07:09,366 --> 00:07:11,702
- He'd call me these names and they were...
- What kinda names?
137
00:07:11,702 --> 00:07:14,580
Just stuff you shouldn't say
to a... a kid. Like...
138
00:07:16,748 --> 00:07:19,126
stupid, or faggot.
139
00:07:19,126 --> 00:07:20,127
Okay.
140
00:07:20,127 --> 00:07:23,922
And so then you're always trying
to impress him, or to not make him mad.
141
00:07:23,922 --> 00:07:27,217
And my mom would... she would do it, too.
They would gang up on me.
142
00:07:27,217 --> 00:07:29,845
Like, if I said
I was scared of the closet,
143
00:07:29,845 --> 00:07:32,556
they'd lock me in the closet
until I stopped screaming.
144
00:07:32,556 --> 00:07:36,143
And, I think they were laughing,
so I knew I wasn't gonna die.
145
00:07:36,143 --> 00:07:37,686
But still, it was just like...
146
00:07:39,229 --> 00:07:40,647
"Why would you do that?"
147
00:07:40,647 --> 00:07:42,566
Or, uh, the basement.
148
00:07:42,566 --> 00:07:45,777
- They'd lock you in the basement?
- Yeah. Because I was scared of it.
149
00:07:45,777 --> 00:07:47,529
It was to toughen me up. And--
150
00:07:47,529 --> 00:07:49,865
[Leslie scoffing] How long?
151
00:07:49,865 --> 00:07:52,326
Just all afternoon,
or until I stopped crying.
152
00:07:52,326 --> 00:07:56,413
And my mom would do it too,
but it was mostly my dad.
153
00:07:57,164 --> 00:07:58,457
That's awful.
154
00:07:58,457 --> 00:08:03,795
So, anyways, when, uh...
when you know your dad thinks you're weak,
155
00:08:03,795 --> 00:08:08,091
or, uh, I don't know, too scared,
156
00:08:08,091 --> 00:08:12,387
or something, like, not tough enough.
157
00:08:12,387 --> 00:08:16,725
And, well, then you start to think,
"Well, I guess I'm not tough enough."
158
00:08:16,725 --> 00:08:18,894
And he's always mad at you.
159
00:08:19,937 --> 00:08:22,814
Like, then the times that he's not.
160
00:08:23,524 --> 00:08:26,443
And the times when he takes you upstairs
161
00:08:26,443 --> 00:08:29,279
and says, uh,
"You know, let's take a shower,"
162
00:08:29,279 --> 00:08:31,573
and he was...
163
00:08:32,491 --> 00:08:33,909
Well, at first, he was, uh...
164
00:08:34,660 --> 00:08:37,454
- Like, he was finally nice. You know?
- Hmm.
165
00:08:37,454 --> 00:08:40,916
Like, to see that side of him
where he was, um...
166
00:08:42,584 --> 00:08:44,002
- Tender.
- Yeah.
167
00:08:44,002 --> 00:08:48,882
Because it was then, like, he could stop
being mad when no one else was there.
168
00:08:49,508 --> 00:08:52,135
But around everyone else
and even when family was over,
169
00:08:52,135 --> 00:08:55,681
he would just call you those names
or he would hit you
170
00:08:55,681 --> 00:08:59,017
and everyone... everyone saw it.
171
00:08:59,017 --> 00:09:02,729
But when it was just you and him,
that's... that's when he would, um...
172
00:09:06,900 --> 00:09:09,278
- What?
- That's when he'd tell me he loved me.
173
00:09:10,779 --> 00:09:12,739
- When he was abusing you?
- Yeah.
174
00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:14,324
It... it wasn't...
175
00:09:15,158 --> 00:09:18,787
[exhales] It was just
the massages at first,
176
00:09:18,787 --> 00:09:23,625
like, with oil, or he'd have his shirt off
and I'd just be in my shorts, and it was...
177
00:09:24,334 --> 00:09:25,586
[Erik sighs]
178
00:09:25,586 --> 00:09:28,088
- What?
- All the other stuff hadn't started yet.
179
00:09:28,088 --> 00:09:32,009
And so it was just like time
180
00:09:33,302 --> 00:09:39,224
being with my dad
where I felt like he cared about me.
181
00:09:40,642 --> 00:09:43,854
And, uh, it was just me and him.
182
00:09:44,730 --> 00:09:45,856
And that was good.
183
00:09:46,565 --> 00:09:49,526
Like, those were my favorite memories.
184
00:09:50,235 --> 00:09:51,236
[Leslie] Mm-hmm.
185
00:09:54,448 --> 00:09:56,283
And then the massages changed?
186
00:09:57,117 --> 00:10:00,370
[Erik inhales and exhales deeply]
187
00:10:00,996 --> 00:10:01,872
Yes.
188
00:10:01,872 --> 00:10:02,789
[Erik clears throat]
189
00:10:02,789 --> 00:10:06,752
He would say, uh, turn over
and he'd do my front.
190
00:10:06,752 --> 00:10:07,878
And by front?
191
00:10:07,878 --> 00:10:09,421
He'd massage my penis.
192
00:10:10,255 --> 00:10:12,716
- Okay.
- And so we'd fondle each other.
193
00:10:12,716 --> 00:10:16,762
- But it... it still wasn't, uh...
- What?
194
00:10:16,762 --> 00:10:20,307
Like it... it wasn't scary yet,
what we were doing,
195
00:10:20,307 --> 00:10:23,644
except I think I didn't want to,
like I would try not to do it.
196
00:10:26,021 --> 00:10:26,980
The front part?
197
00:10:27,522 --> 00:10:31,401
Yeah, because he'd be lying on his back
and I'd try to skip that part,
198
00:10:31,401 --> 00:10:34,780
and he'd say, "No, you have to do that."
199
00:10:35,614 --> 00:10:39,660
And, uh, just... then the mouth massages
as I got older.
200
00:10:39,660 --> 00:10:42,496
Like Lyle said, with the objects
and the toothbrush and...
201
00:10:42,496 --> 00:10:43,455
How old?
202
00:10:43,955 --> 00:10:47,042
Uh, definitely second grade 'cause...
203
00:10:47,542 --> 00:10:48,835
- The toothbrush?
- Mm-hmm.
204
00:10:48,835 --> 00:10:50,962
Because I remember the day
at school afterwards,
205
00:10:50,962 --> 00:10:55,342
there was a picture of a toothbrush
on the bulletin board or whatever,
206
00:10:55,342 --> 00:10:57,427
just about how
you should go to the dentist.
207
00:10:57,427 --> 00:10:59,971
And, um, I remember thinking
208
00:10:59,971 --> 00:11:03,225
that the toothbrush in the picture
wouldn't have hurt as much.
209
00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:05,644
[Leslie] Hmm.
210
00:11:06,561 --> 00:11:12,901
Uh, and so there were four different kinds
of... of sex with my dad.
211
00:11:12,901 --> 00:11:16,530
There was nice, which was the, um...
212
00:11:17,531 --> 00:11:19,658
Well, the massages came before, but...
213
00:11:20,909 --> 00:11:24,955
[sighs] Then, when he started
making me use my mouth, it was just...
214
00:11:26,832 --> 00:11:29,626
It was too big, and I, uh,
I didn't... I didn't like that.
215
00:11:29,626 --> 00:11:30,585
Yeah.
216
00:11:30,585 --> 00:11:33,422
- Doing that to him seemed really dirty.
- Yeah.
217
00:11:34,214 --> 00:11:36,717
[sighs deeply] When he did it to me,
that was...
218
00:11:40,095 --> 00:11:43,974
But to him, the... the naked...
He called them "naked mouth massages."
219
00:11:43,974 --> 00:11:46,852
- Doing that to him felt really dirty.
- Yeah.
220
00:11:46,852 --> 00:11:49,312
Uh, and I didn't like it,
221
00:11:49,312 --> 00:11:53,525
but he would say, you know,
"You did good. Good boy."
222
00:11:53,525 --> 00:11:55,652
And it was just...
223
00:11:56,903 --> 00:12:02,451
the only time I felt like I had
a real relationship with my dad,
224
00:12:02,451 --> 00:12:06,121
where I felt that he did love me.
225
00:12:07,831 --> 00:12:12,335
And, uh, they'd go on for a long time,
the nice sex sessions.
226
00:12:13,295 --> 00:12:16,173
Sometimes I started to wonder
where everybody else was
227
00:12:16,173 --> 00:12:18,508
just because they'd go on for so long.
228
00:12:18,508 --> 00:12:23,388
And in a lot of ways, even though
it felt dirty, it was also like...
229
00:12:25,056 --> 00:12:28,185
like I was the center of the world
for once, you know?
230
00:12:28,185 --> 00:12:31,062
- Mm-hmm.
- And it... it also felt...
231
00:12:33,106 --> 00:12:33,982
Nice?
232
00:12:37,903 --> 00:12:38,945
[Leslie] Mm-hmm.
233
00:12:40,906 --> 00:12:41,740
Go on.
234
00:12:41,740 --> 00:12:43,533
The objects were to get me ready.
235
00:12:44,284 --> 00:12:46,536
Lyle and I realized that
when we finally, um...
236
00:12:47,245 --> 00:12:48,789
- When you talked about it.
- Yeah.
237
00:12:48,789 --> 00:12:52,584
And that he was, uh, preparing our bodies
238
00:12:52,584 --> 00:12:55,212
for something bigger.
239
00:12:56,546 --> 00:12:59,341
And, uh, at first he made me do it to him.
240
00:13:00,008 --> 00:13:00,842
Do?
241
00:13:02,260 --> 00:13:03,178
Sex.
242
00:13:03,970 --> 00:13:06,681
Like, to penetrate him.
243
00:13:06,681 --> 00:13:07,682
[Leslie] Hmm.
244
00:13:08,433 --> 00:13:11,895
He always said he wanted to teach me
how to use my... my penis.
245
00:13:12,604 --> 00:13:15,690
- And that felt really dirty every time.
- Yeah.
246
00:13:15,690 --> 00:13:17,192
And I didn't like it.
247
00:13:18,109 --> 00:13:19,110
And, um...
248
00:13:21,154 --> 00:13:24,074
- What?
- In order to do that, you have to be...
249
00:13:25,116 --> 00:13:26,117
Erect.
250
00:13:27,661 --> 00:13:31,456
That... That''s what was so, uh,
weird about it.
251
00:13:31,456 --> 00:13:32,999
And that I could ever...
252
00:13:34,459 --> 00:13:35,710
- Um...
- What?
253
00:13:39,798 --> 00:13:41,007
[sighs deeply]
254
00:13:42,634 --> 00:13:44,427
- [Leslie whispers] It's okay.
- Or... orgasm.
255
00:13:47,764 --> 00:13:51,226
That was, uh, really confusing to me
at that age.
256
00:13:51,852 --> 00:13:53,186
Of course it would be.
257
00:13:53,186 --> 00:13:54,187
Uh...
258
00:13:56,273 --> 00:13:57,524
And then he... he...
259
00:13:59,359 --> 00:14:02,237
Then he started to rape me and that...
260
00:14:03,738 --> 00:14:07,075
He'd take a slat from underneath the bed
and he'd put it under the doorknob--
261
00:14:07,075 --> 00:14:08,118
Oh my God.
262
00:14:08,118 --> 00:14:11,830
And I... I would cry, and it hurt,
263
00:14:11,830 --> 00:14:16,376
and he'd say,
"You know, why can't you be like Lyle?"
264
00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:18,962
"Just be a Menendez and get used to it."
265
00:14:21,006 --> 00:14:22,048
And I just...
266
00:14:25,260 --> 00:14:29,139
I remember feeling so, um... disappointed
267
00:14:29,139 --> 00:14:34,185
because he was comparing us again,
268
00:14:34,185 --> 00:14:38,398
Lyle and me,
like I wasn't good enough again,
269
00:14:38,398 --> 00:14:42,652
and like, all of the stuff
that he'd said about loving me,
270
00:14:42,652 --> 00:14:45,780
like, that was just gone.
271
00:14:45,780 --> 00:14:48,617
Or like that had never even,
like, happened.
272
00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:53,955
How often did this happen?
273
00:14:53,955 --> 00:14:55,040
The just sex?
274
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:55,957
Mm-hmm.
275
00:14:56,458 --> 00:15:00,420
Um, like, two or three times a month?
276
00:15:01,379 --> 00:15:02,255
From when?
277
00:15:02,756 --> 00:15:03,590
Uh...
278
00:15:04,174 --> 00:15:05,800
Like, junior high, I think.
279
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:06,968
So 11.
280
00:15:06,968 --> 00:15:08,011
Mm-hmm.
281
00:15:08,011 --> 00:15:09,179
Until...
282
00:15:09,179 --> 00:15:11,640
- Uh, right before--
- Right before they're dead?
283
00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,851
- Yeah. Just a few months before.
- Was the last time?
284
00:15:14,851 --> 00:15:15,769
Yes.
285
00:15:18,146 --> 00:15:19,022
Erik...
286
00:15:21,024 --> 00:15:25,278
You were raped hundreds of times
by your father?
287
00:15:26,905 --> 00:15:27,739
Yes.
288
00:15:29,491 --> 00:15:31,910
That was just what my life was like.
289
00:15:33,745 --> 00:15:35,330
I'm so sorry, Erik.
290
00:15:35,330 --> 00:15:36,957
It's okay. It's just...
291
00:15:36,957 --> 00:15:38,124
You kind of, uh...
292
00:15:39,125 --> 00:15:40,251
You get through it.
293
00:15:40,251 --> 00:15:43,171
Yeah, and you just, um, survive, I guess.
294
00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,634
You live for those times
when it doesn't happen, you know?
295
00:15:48,301 --> 00:15:49,511
And you think, like...
296
00:15:49,511 --> 00:15:50,553
[sniffs]
297
00:15:50,553 --> 00:15:53,056
Well, I mean, you do get through it.
It's like...
298
00:15:55,892 --> 00:15:59,437
It's like...
It's like Christmas morning, you know?
299
00:15:59,437 --> 00:16:01,648
And you think, "Okay, I got through that,
300
00:16:01,648 --> 00:16:05,276
I'm not gonna have to, uh,
do that for a while now."
301
00:16:05,276 --> 00:16:07,570
Or, "Maybe because this time,
it was knees,
302
00:16:07,570 --> 00:16:10,365
maybe next time,
it'll be nice sex or maybe--"
303
00:16:10,365 --> 00:16:11,533
Sorry. Knees?
304
00:16:12,158 --> 00:16:14,411
Well, that was another one of the, um...
305
00:16:15,078 --> 00:16:18,415
I had different names for things.
Knees was... It wasn't my favorite.
306
00:16:18,415 --> 00:16:22,544
It'd be when I do the mouth massages
to him, and he would, uh...
307
00:16:24,045 --> 00:16:25,046
What?
308
00:16:25,046 --> 00:16:26,006
[exhales deeply]
309
00:16:26,006 --> 00:16:30,301
He would finish, I guess, in my mouth,
and I just hated the taste of it.
310
00:16:30,301 --> 00:16:32,971
That's why I started putting
the cinnamon into his coffee
311
00:16:32,971 --> 00:16:35,223
and putting lemon on my food and stuff.
312
00:16:35,223 --> 00:16:38,893
- The cinnamon was for the taste.
- To make it taste better.
313
00:16:38,893 --> 00:16:42,188
So if I had done that
or I had gotten through that,
314
00:16:42,188 --> 00:16:45,775
I'd think, "Maybe next time,
he'll do a mouth massage to me,
315
00:16:45,775 --> 00:16:48,069
or it'll just not be the rough sex."
316
00:16:48,069 --> 00:16:50,989
I just... I never wanted it
to be the rough sex.
317
00:16:52,866 --> 00:16:53,700
[sighs]
318
00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:56,161
And what was rough sex like?
319
00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:01,207
Uh, just...
320
00:17:03,668 --> 00:17:04,544
Just...
321
00:17:06,421 --> 00:17:07,255
hitting,
322
00:17:08,089 --> 00:17:11,217
and, um, really painful.
323
00:17:12,010 --> 00:17:16,598
He would get mean, and he would punch me,
and he was really strong.
324
00:17:17,098 --> 00:17:18,224
[Leslie clears throat]
325
00:17:18,224 --> 00:17:20,143
[exhales] And I couldn't, um...
326
00:17:21,519 --> 00:17:25,023
I don't know why, but for some reason,
I just could never hit him back.
327
00:17:25,023 --> 00:17:27,567
It was like when I was little,
when I was running away.
328
00:17:27,567 --> 00:17:30,111
Like, it just doesn't work.
You... [sniffling]
329
00:17:30,111 --> 00:17:32,655
You can't get out of it.
330
00:17:32,655 --> 00:17:35,283
Like, he won't stop.
You just have to do it.
331
00:17:35,283 --> 00:17:39,329
You have to just try to, uh...
to get... get through it.
332
00:17:40,121 --> 00:17:42,582
But the, um, the rough sex was...
333
00:17:44,626 --> 00:17:46,294
- [Erik sighs]
- [Leslie] Hmm. What?
334
00:17:48,630 --> 00:17:49,547
Uh...
335
00:17:49,547 --> 00:17:52,592
I'd have to, um, kneel on the headboard.
336
00:17:52,592 --> 00:17:55,804
But, like, at the end of the bed,
like the foot of the bed. [sniffling]
337
00:17:55,804 --> 00:17:58,056
But, like, it'd be into my shins.
338
00:17:58,056 --> 00:18:00,934
So it'd be stuff to make it hurt.
339
00:18:00,934 --> 00:18:03,353
Because he would always say,
"This is what the Greeks did."
340
00:18:03,353 --> 00:18:06,106
"This is how they toughened themselves up
to make things not hurt."
341
00:18:06,106 --> 00:18:08,858
So if it hurt,
you had to try to get through it.
342
00:18:08,858 --> 00:18:12,070
So I'd be inserting objects into my, um...
343
00:18:12,695 --> 00:18:17,117
Or, like, with my penis, like pins or, uh...
344
00:18:17,700 --> 00:18:20,286
Like, he cut my leg.
Like, I've got a scar on my leg
345
00:18:20,286 --> 00:18:24,332
because he'd be doing this stuff while
I'd be doing the mouth massages to him.
346
00:18:24,332 --> 00:18:28,670
And he'd be, uh, you know,
just trying to toughen me up.
347
00:18:28,670 --> 00:18:31,798
But, um, when...
348
00:18:32,882 --> 00:18:37,262
when he's tying something
around your penis, like a rope or, like...
349
00:18:37,887 --> 00:18:41,432
like, I don't think that's supposed
to make someone tough. Like--
350
00:18:41,432 --> 00:18:42,517
No, it does not.
351
00:18:43,434 --> 00:18:46,938
Wait, that's more kind of, like,
torturing someone?
352
00:18:46,938 --> 00:18:48,231
Yes, Erik.
353
00:18:48,231 --> 00:18:52,485
And I just don't think
that's what a father's supposed to, uh...
354
00:18:53,611 --> 00:18:54,571
No, it's not.
355
00:18:54,571 --> 00:18:57,031
Like, that's not
what you do to someone you, um...
356
00:18:58,241 --> 00:19:00,201
That's what you do
to someone you hate, you know?
357
00:19:00,201 --> 00:19:03,246
- Erik, you did not deserve that.
- He'd call me these, like...
358
00:19:03,746 --> 00:19:04,789
[exhales deeply]
359
00:19:04,789 --> 00:19:08,585
Sometimes it was what he would say
that would somehow hurt even more, like...
360
00:19:08,585 --> 00:19:09,544
Like what?
361
00:19:09,544 --> 00:19:12,922
I just wanted to say to him,
like, "If I'm such a faggot,
362
00:19:13,673 --> 00:19:16,259
then why are you asking me
to fuck you in the ass?"
363
00:19:16,259 --> 00:19:18,011
You know? Like, that's...
364
00:19:18,011 --> 00:19:20,138
- Yeah.
- You know? And I...
365
00:19:21,306 --> 00:19:22,515
- What?
- I don't know.
366
00:19:22,515 --> 00:19:26,227
- No, what were you going to say?
- No, I don't know. I don't know.
367
00:19:29,981 --> 00:19:32,317
And you're supposed to... I mean...
368
00:19:33,193 --> 00:19:36,154
Like, this is a man
who did such amazing stuff, you know?
369
00:19:36,154 --> 00:19:38,156
Like, my dad was an amazing man.
370
00:19:38,156 --> 00:19:41,826
I loved him so much.
And I still love him so much.
371
00:19:41,826 --> 00:19:45,038
And that's why I'm like... I don't wanna be
in here for the rest of my life,
372
00:19:45,038 --> 00:19:48,541
because, like, to have that thought, like...
373
00:19:50,501 --> 00:19:52,212
to have that thought,
374
00:19:52,837 --> 00:19:55,423
laying alone in here in a cell at night,
all cooped up in here,
375
00:19:55,423 --> 00:19:57,425
and to have that be a thought
you're thinking--
376
00:19:57,425 --> 00:19:58,384
What thought?
377
00:19:58,384 --> 00:20:00,887
Like, that I love my dad.
378
00:20:01,471 --> 00:20:02,555
Like, that's...
379
00:20:03,806 --> 00:20:04,933
[sighs deeply]
380
00:20:04,933 --> 00:20:09,103
Like, it wasn't the rough sex, the pins,
and the rope that were the torture. Like...
381
00:20:10,230 --> 00:20:12,482
Like, that would be the torture. To, uh...
382
00:20:13,233 --> 00:20:15,818
To still love him.
383
00:20:17,070 --> 00:20:22,367
And that's why Lyle used to say,
you know, "Erik, they'd be proud of us."
384
00:20:22,367 --> 00:20:25,203
And I'd always agree with him.
385
00:20:25,203 --> 00:20:29,123
But then later, I'd think, I mean,
"They're not proud that we killed them."
386
00:20:29,916 --> 00:20:32,460
But then, just the last few days in here,
387
00:20:33,378 --> 00:20:36,214
and really since Saturday,
like, just thinking a lot,
388
00:20:36,214 --> 00:20:38,132
it just really occurred to me that--
389
00:20:38,132 --> 00:20:39,092
What did?
390
00:20:39,092 --> 00:20:41,386
That he probably would. You know?
391
00:20:42,470 --> 00:20:45,014
Like in Heaven, right now,
he'd be looking down, and he'd say,
392
00:20:45,014 --> 00:20:46,432
"Thank you, Erik and Lyle."
393
00:20:46,432 --> 00:20:48,810
"You know,
you did what you had to do to me
394
00:20:48,810 --> 00:20:52,063
because what I did to you
was really wrong." [sniffling]
395
00:20:52,063 --> 00:20:53,147
"And I love you."
396
00:20:53,147 --> 00:20:55,650
"And you... you took that off my shoulders,"
397
00:20:55,650 --> 00:20:59,570
or, "You took that off my soul,"
or whatever, if that makes sense.
398
00:20:59,570 --> 00:21:01,114
- I don't know.
- It does. It does.
399
00:21:01,114 --> 00:21:03,741
"You made me into someone
who doesn't do that anymore,"
400
00:21:03,741 --> 00:21:05,660
is what Lyle meant, and what I mean.
401
00:21:05,660 --> 00:21:09,205
So that now I could...
Now we can love him again.
402
00:21:10,123 --> 00:21:13,001
Really, for the first time,
because he's not doing that anymore.
403
00:21:13,001 --> 00:21:14,002
Wow.
404
00:21:14,002 --> 00:21:17,839
So, that's why I don't want
to be here, all alone,
405
00:21:18,339 --> 00:21:20,300
with that thought banging around my head,
406
00:21:20,300 --> 00:21:23,261
not without Lyle not here,
and my friend gone now.
407
00:21:23,261 --> 00:21:24,178
[sniffs]
408
00:21:28,433 --> 00:21:31,060
[buzzer blaring in distance]
409
00:21:31,060 --> 00:21:32,186
[door clanging]
410
00:21:34,022 --> 00:21:34,856
What?
411
00:21:36,691 --> 00:21:40,611
No, I'm just... I'm just blown away
by you, Erik Menendez.
412
00:21:40,611 --> 00:21:44,073
- You don't-- You... you shouldn't say that.
- No, I mean it. I really, really do.
413
00:21:44,073 --> 00:21:46,159
[sniffs] Really do.
414
00:21:46,159 --> 00:21:48,453
I know a lot of people.
415
00:21:48,953 --> 00:21:51,289
I know a lot of very impressive people,
416
00:21:51,956 --> 00:21:54,292
and you are right at the top.
417
00:21:55,043 --> 00:21:59,213
With everything you have been through
and what you have had to do,
418
00:21:59,756 --> 00:22:03,509
and who you are right now,
telling me all of this...
419
00:22:04,344 --> 00:22:07,221
The bravery, Erik?
420
00:22:08,639 --> 00:22:13,061
You are just an incredible person,
and I just have to say it.
421
00:22:13,061 --> 00:22:15,063
- [sniffs] And...
- Thank you.
422
00:22:15,063 --> 00:22:16,773
I'm not gonna make this about me,
423
00:22:16,773 --> 00:22:20,026
but, you know, my father
was a fucking son of a bitch.
424
00:22:20,026 --> 00:22:21,986
[chuckles]
425
00:22:21,986 --> 00:22:23,821
- Really?
- Yeah. Yeah.
426
00:22:23,821 --> 00:22:25,656
Abandoned me and my brother.
427
00:22:25,656 --> 00:22:29,786
Just... This man that I loved,
told me I was his little princess,
428
00:22:29,786 --> 00:22:33,581
and he just dropped off
without so much as a word,
429
00:22:33,581 --> 00:22:38,169
ran away with another family,
and I haven't heard from him in 34 years.
430
00:22:38,169 --> 00:22:40,213
- [sniffs] And...
- Oh, I'm so sorry.
431
00:22:40,213 --> 00:22:43,007
Well, thank you. I... Nothing like yours.
432
00:22:43,007 --> 00:22:46,427
I just say that by way of,
you know, hearing all of this,
433
00:22:46,427 --> 00:22:48,388
which is just mind-boggling,
434
00:22:48,388 --> 00:22:51,099
and hearing it, thank you,
435
00:22:51,766 --> 00:22:53,518
is just, you know...
436
00:22:54,811 --> 00:22:56,729
You don't have to forgive him.
437
00:22:57,897 --> 00:23:00,233
Your father. Okay?
438
00:23:00,233 --> 00:23:03,653
My father wasn't one-tenth
of one-millionth
439
00:23:03,653 --> 00:23:05,655
of a percentage as bad as yours.
440
00:23:05,655 --> 00:23:07,573
Okay, just no comparison.
441
00:23:08,282 --> 00:23:10,576
And my brother, he's forgiven him.
442
00:23:10,576 --> 00:23:12,286
You know, he talks to him.
443
00:23:13,371 --> 00:23:14,330
But, Erik,
444
00:23:15,665 --> 00:23:21,129
no fucking way will I forgive him
for what he did.
445
00:23:21,129 --> 00:23:23,381
Not now, not ever.
446
00:23:24,173 --> 00:23:27,927
And I just say that
'cause you have that option, too.
447
00:23:29,595 --> 00:23:30,847
- Okay?
- Okay.
448
00:23:30,847 --> 00:23:33,057
Because, you know, hearing all this,
449
00:23:33,057 --> 00:23:36,394
I... I just have to keep asking myself
and asking you,
450
00:23:37,437 --> 00:23:40,440
where was your mother in all of this?
451
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,609
- Well, see because she...
- Let's not make excuses for her.
452
00:23:43,609 --> 00:23:44,986
He cheated on her.
453
00:23:44,986 --> 00:23:48,072
And Lyle said he walked in on them
one time, and my dad was raping her.
454
00:23:48,072 --> 00:23:49,740
Okay, well, that's still...
455
00:23:49,740 --> 00:23:51,993
My dad ruined her life, I think.
456
00:23:51,993 --> 00:23:55,413
And she would sometimes say,
which, well, wasn't even...
457
00:23:55,913 --> 00:23:56,956
She would, um...
458
00:23:57,790 --> 00:23:58,624
[sighs]
459
00:23:58,624 --> 00:23:59,584
[Leslie] What?
460
00:24:00,626 --> 00:24:05,256
With Lyle, she would sometimes...
she would sometimes get naked.
461
00:24:05,256 --> 00:24:06,883
- This is your mother?
- Yes.
462
00:24:06,883 --> 00:24:10,303
But it wasn't...
it wasn't like it was with my dad.
463
00:24:10,303 --> 00:24:11,304
She was...
464
00:24:11,888 --> 00:24:14,932
She just wanted us to think
she had a nice body, and she liked ours.
465
00:24:14,932 --> 00:24:16,517
But it was just looking. Or...
466
00:24:17,393 --> 00:24:20,354
Well, yeah, it was just looking.
467
00:24:20,354 --> 00:24:21,355
She would...
468
00:24:23,483 --> 00:24:26,027
When I was 16,
she started doing this thing where...
469
00:24:26,027 --> 00:24:28,779
Because I think by then,
the stuff with Dad was intense.
470
00:24:28,779 --> 00:24:29,739
And she...
471
00:24:30,406 --> 00:24:31,240
[sighs deeply]
472
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:35,286
My mom would do this thing
where she would inspect my...
473
00:24:36,537 --> 00:24:37,747
- Penis?
- Yeah.
474
00:24:37,747 --> 00:24:40,249
And, you know, she'd be like,
"Why do you shave it all?"
475
00:24:40,249 --> 00:24:41,792
And I'd be like, "No, Dad did that."
476
00:24:41,792 --> 00:24:45,296
But I couldn't say that because, well...
477
00:24:45,296 --> 00:24:47,590
[sighing] It was weird
'cause we were close.
478
00:24:47,590 --> 00:24:49,342
But then Dad also had these girlfriends,
479
00:24:49,342 --> 00:24:52,011
so, I think that
she also thought I was, too.
480
00:24:52,011 --> 00:24:54,555
- Was what?
- That I was sleeping with Dad.
481
00:24:54,555 --> 00:24:55,932
So, I was...
482
00:24:57,183 --> 00:24:58,434
She... she was...
483
00:24:58,434 --> 00:25:00,102
I... I was coming between them.
484
00:25:00,645 --> 00:25:02,939
And that wasn't ever something
that we talked about.
485
00:25:02,939 --> 00:25:04,899
Like, she would've never said anything.
486
00:25:04,899 --> 00:25:07,610
It was something you knew,
but didn't talk about
487
00:25:07,610 --> 00:25:09,362
because that was just our family.
488
00:25:09,362 --> 00:25:10,696
But I knew how she felt.
489
00:25:11,572 --> 00:25:15,826
And her feeling that way was why I think
she, like, made me get a girlfriend,
490
00:25:15,826 --> 00:25:17,745
but she would do the inspections, right?
491
00:25:17,745 --> 00:25:19,956
- Of your...
- She'd do inspections of my-- Yeah.
492
00:25:19,956 --> 00:25:22,083
Because she was terrified of AIDS,
493
00:25:22,083 --> 00:25:25,836
and she would always check me
for blisters, like, on my penis.
494
00:25:25,836 --> 00:25:28,798
And I think it was because
it was a way to see if, like...
495
00:25:29,632 --> 00:25:32,051
You know, because I think
she knew that Dad and I were,
496
00:25:32,051 --> 00:25:34,136
so if one of Dad's girlfriends
had something...
497
00:25:34,136 --> 00:25:36,514
- Hold on.
- ...then I got it, that means she'd get it.
498
00:25:36,514 --> 00:25:38,057
I wanna go back for a second.
499
00:25:38,057 --> 00:25:39,892
Actually, it's not important.
500
00:25:39,892 --> 00:25:42,186
- Forget that.
- But why did she think you had AIDS?
501
00:25:42,186 --> 00:25:45,106
- It's not important. Just forget it.
- But why would she think that?
502
00:25:45,106 --> 00:25:48,025
- I said, it's not important. Forget it!
- What I mean is--
503
00:25:48,025 --> 00:25:51,404
She just wanted to make sure,
so she'd do those inspections. That's why.
504
00:25:51,404 --> 00:25:57,201
But why would she think
you would get AIDS?
505
00:25:57,785 --> 00:26:01,122
And before you answer that,
I just wanna say that I'm not your mother.
506
00:26:01,122 --> 00:26:03,499
Okay? And frankly,
I don't like your mother.
507
00:26:03,499 --> 00:26:06,502
- Yeah, but she was--
- I'm sorry. No. That's not a mother, Erik.
508
00:26:06,502 --> 00:26:08,045
Okay? And I am a mother.
509
00:26:08,838 --> 00:26:10,506
Wasn't the perfect one, I'm sure.
510
00:26:10,506 --> 00:26:13,509
Maybe that's why
I want another shot at it, okay?
511
00:26:13,509 --> 00:26:16,345
But for you to... I mean,
I know you loved her.
512
00:26:16,345 --> 00:26:18,097
I do. We were really close.
513
00:26:18,097 --> 00:26:20,224
Lyle and her weren't,
but me and her, we were.
514
00:26:20,224 --> 00:26:23,436
- Everyone's gonna love their mother.
- Yes, and I do.
515
00:26:23,436 --> 00:26:27,898
But for her to have known,
and to have not intervened--
516
00:26:27,898 --> 00:26:29,191
Yes. Because she was--
517
00:26:29,191 --> 00:26:32,069
No, but let me... I'm sorry.
Let me just say this and we can go back.
518
00:26:32,069 --> 00:26:36,240
Because there were a lot of avenues
that she could have taken there, okay?
519
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,409
Where she could have gone
to the authorities,
520
00:26:38,409 --> 00:26:42,079
where she could have said,
"No, not my sons."
521
00:26:42,079 --> 00:26:44,624
"You will not abuse my sons!" Right?
522
00:26:45,875 --> 00:26:47,877
- Yes.
- And that's a pretty low bar, okay?
523
00:26:47,877 --> 00:26:49,170
And she didn't do that.
524
00:26:50,004 --> 00:26:51,547
She didn't do any of that.
525
00:26:52,923 --> 00:26:54,842
Not because of you. Look at me.
526
00:26:55,343 --> 00:26:58,387
Not because of you, but because of her.
527
00:27:00,222 --> 00:27:01,057
Okay?
528
00:27:01,557 --> 00:27:03,351
So for you to--
529
00:27:03,351 --> 00:27:04,769
Yes, you can love her.
530
00:27:04,769 --> 00:27:08,314
Yes, you can sympathize with her,
and then I wanna ask you something.
531
00:27:08,314 --> 00:27:11,192
I wanna say this to you,
and I'd say it to Lyle...
532
00:27:11,192 --> 00:27:14,070
You deserved better than her.
533
00:27:15,279 --> 00:27:17,907
I won't even mention your father.
That goes without saying.
534
00:27:17,907 --> 00:27:22,036
That man is in a place is all I'll say.
535
00:27:22,036 --> 00:27:23,204
But your mom too.
536
00:27:23,954 --> 00:27:28,459
And if what you are saying is true,
and what Lyle is saying is true,
537
00:27:28,459 --> 00:27:30,878
you deserved better.
538
00:27:31,754 --> 00:27:34,340
Okay? So that's just where
I'm coming from.
539
00:27:36,133 --> 00:27:37,051
But, Erik,
540
00:27:38,386 --> 00:27:41,222
can you tell me
why she thought you had AIDS?
541
00:27:41,222 --> 00:27:42,598
Can you just tell me?
542
00:27:43,974 --> 00:27:45,267
[sighs deeply]
543
00:27:47,645 --> 00:27:48,979
Well, see, um,
544
00:27:50,272 --> 00:27:51,982
this is what's so hard.
545
00:27:51,982 --> 00:27:52,983
What?
546
00:27:52,983 --> 00:27:54,026
About...
547
00:27:54,026 --> 00:27:56,237
Because I don't know.
548
00:27:59,990 --> 00:28:03,160
I don't know what way you are
and what way you're supposed to be
549
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:04,995
when that's your childhood.
550
00:28:05,496 --> 00:28:08,582
Like, when that's what your dad's doing
to you. Like... [sniffs]
551
00:28:12,044 --> 00:28:16,048
[sighing] Well, I remember one time,
my mom, she called Lyle and me,
552
00:28:16,048 --> 00:28:17,675
and I don't think she meant it,
553
00:28:17,675 --> 00:28:20,010
but she screamed at us, like,
"You're sociopaths!"
554
00:28:20,010 --> 00:28:25,516
And a part of me was like,
"Well, maybe we are sociopaths,
555
00:28:25,516 --> 00:28:28,477
but can you blame us if we are,
556
00:28:28,477 --> 00:28:30,730
when you know
what's been happening to us?"
557
00:28:31,230 --> 00:28:33,983
So, like, the feelings I have of, like...
558
00:28:35,693 --> 00:28:38,612
sex stuff or, um, or...
559
00:28:38,612 --> 00:28:39,905
- Orientation.
- Yeah.
560
00:28:39,905 --> 00:28:44,160
Or of Dad's, or like whatever
feelings I have, or which way I...
561
00:28:45,035 --> 00:28:46,078
Like, I just...
562
00:28:47,037 --> 00:28:51,792
I don't... I don't know if it's me
or how I was supposed to be.
563
00:28:53,753 --> 00:28:56,213
And, uh, that's why she...
564
00:28:57,923 --> 00:29:00,509
With the inspections
when I was 16 because...
565
00:29:04,013 --> 00:29:04,889
It's okay.
566
00:29:05,473 --> 00:29:07,600
I don't want to say who it was, but, um...
567
00:29:10,394 --> 00:29:11,395
I was...
568
00:29:12,980 --> 00:29:16,692
I was kind of in love with a boy.
569
00:29:18,194 --> 00:29:20,279
Or a teenager like me, who was a boy.
570
00:29:20,279 --> 00:29:21,238
Okay.
571
00:29:21,238 --> 00:29:23,491
But it was because
I was having sex with my dad,
572
00:29:23,491 --> 00:29:25,409
like, that's not normal.
573
00:29:25,409 --> 00:29:29,538
And that made me not normal.
And so he wasn't... He didn't...
574
00:29:30,581 --> 00:29:33,375
He-- This boy, he didn't have a dad
who did that to him.
575
00:29:33,375 --> 00:29:37,004
He was just always that way,
but I'm not sure I was,
576
00:29:37,004 --> 00:29:41,133
and I'm... I'm not sure I am,
but like, I have those feelings. Like...
577
00:29:43,469 --> 00:29:45,638
I was in love with someone, and, uh...
578
00:29:47,264 --> 00:29:51,811
he, this boy, we said we would
never say each other's names and I won't.
579
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,774
But when we had sex then,
it was... it wasn't like it was with my dad.
580
00:29:56,774 --> 00:29:57,691
It was...
581
00:29:58,567 --> 00:29:59,568
Nice.
582
00:30:01,070 --> 00:30:02,238
It was really nice.
583
00:30:03,989 --> 00:30:05,282
It was really nice.
584
00:30:07,868 --> 00:30:11,121
[sniffs] And in here,
it was... was really nice, but now it's...
585
00:30:12,456 --> 00:30:14,333
Whatever. It doesn't matter. But, um...
586
00:30:16,836 --> 00:30:17,711
Okay.
587
00:30:19,672 --> 00:30:22,508
- Okay.
- No, actually, I don't think you, uh...
588
00:30:24,301 --> 00:30:25,302
No, I understand.
589
00:30:25,302 --> 00:30:29,098
No, I... I think you think I'm saying
something different than I am.
590
00:30:29,098 --> 00:30:30,891
Like, yes, I've done certain things.
591
00:30:30,891 --> 00:30:33,102
And so, you know,
you're gonna say I'm one way,
592
00:30:33,102 --> 00:30:35,479
and you're gonna tell everyone
I'm one way, but I'm not.
593
00:30:35,479 --> 00:30:38,566
- No, I'm not. I'm not gonna tell anyone.
- I'm actually... No.
594
00:30:38,566 --> 00:30:40,484
Okay. But what I'm saying is...
595
00:30:40,484 --> 00:30:42,528
I'm just saying, I don't know.
596
00:30:43,112 --> 00:30:45,239
Okay? I don't know what I am.
597
00:30:45,239 --> 00:30:49,159
I can't tell what I am, and I never
will be able to tell is what I'm saying.
598
00:30:49,159 --> 00:30:51,370
And yeah, maybe I am a sociopath,
599
00:30:51,370 --> 00:30:54,540
and maybe I should've got AIDS,
and maybe I'll only like it this way.
600
00:30:54,540 --> 00:30:56,208
Because with girls, it was like,
601
00:30:56,208 --> 00:30:59,253
how could I even know
when he's done this to me?
602
00:30:59,837 --> 00:31:03,132
When it's been happening for so long,
I don't remember when it started.
603
00:31:03,132 --> 00:31:06,677
When I can't remember a time
when my dad wasn't fucking me.
604
00:31:06,677 --> 00:31:09,597
- Like, he broke me. I'm a broken person.
- No, you're not.
605
00:31:09,597 --> 00:31:13,100
Yes, I am. He broke me in two.
He cracked me in half.
606
00:31:13,100 --> 00:31:15,311
- I am not a real person.
- You are a real person.
607
00:31:15,311 --> 00:31:17,479
You can't be
when the only man you wanna love
608
00:31:17,479 --> 00:31:19,398
does that to you, you stop being real.
609
00:31:19,398 --> 00:31:21,775
- You are real.
- Stop saying that.
610
00:31:24,987 --> 00:31:26,822
Just stop.
611
00:31:31,368 --> 00:31:32,786
I am the Hurt Man.
612
00:31:37,124 --> 00:31:38,626
What is the Hurt Man?
613
00:31:42,463 --> 00:31:43,380
[inhales deeply]
614
00:31:43,881 --> 00:31:44,715
It's me.
615
00:31:48,510 --> 00:31:51,305
- That's the name for yourself?
- Yes, since I...
616
00:31:51,805 --> 00:31:54,767
- Since when you were little.
- For as long as I can remember.
617
00:31:56,435 --> 00:31:57,978
That's what I call myself.
618
00:31:59,063 --> 00:31:59,939
Since forever.
619
00:32:01,523 --> 00:32:02,983
That's always been my name.
620
00:32:06,236 --> 00:32:07,571
And it's never gonna end.
621
00:32:09,156 --> 00:32:10,658
And it's never gonna not hurt.
622
00:32:13,827 --> 00:32:15,412
I shot my mom in the face.
623
00:32:16,747 --> 00:32:17,957
And my dad, I think.
624
00:32:19,833 --> 00:32:23,462
That's not a... [sniffling]
That's not a normal thing you do.
625
00:32:24,630 --> 00:32:27,508
So... I don't know what I am.
626
00:32:28,175 --> 00:32:29,969
And I don't think I'll ever know
627
00:32:29,969 --> 00:32:32,805
is what I realized since Saturday
if I don't get out of here.
628
00:32:32,805 --> 00:32:35,891
- I will get you out of here.
- No. Stop, stop saying that.
629
00:32:40,562 --> 00:32:44,692
I will never really know who I am
if I don't get out of here.
630
00:32:47,027 --> 00:32:48,028
I'll never know.
631
00:32:59,331 --> 00:33:01,333
[female vocalizing]
632
00:33:04,211 --> 00:33:06,213
[somber music playing]
633
00:34:17,034 --> 00:34:18,952
[music ends]
634
00:34:18,952 --> 00:34:23,952
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635
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