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1
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Yes, please. So, one of the biggest
rating hits of the coronavirus
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has been a show called Tiger King...
Yeah.
3
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..and the man who's the star
of this is a former zoo owner
4
00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:20,880
who's serving a 22-year
prison sentence.
5
00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:23,880
He's asking you for a pardon,
saying he was unfairly convicted.
6
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He has 22 years for what?
What did he do?
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He allegedly hired someone to murder
an animal rights activist,
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but he said that he didn't do that.
9
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Would you recommend a pardon?
10
00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:34,000
I'm not weighing in on Tiger King.
11
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I don't think you would.
I don't think we would.
12
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Go ahead. Do you have a question?
13
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I'll take a look.
14
00:00:38,480 --> 00:00:40,760
Is that Joe Exotic?
That's Joe Exotic?
15
00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:48,440
So, this is a letter that was sent
by Joe Exotic from jail.
16
00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:51,280
It was forwarded on to me
because I'm mentioned in it,
17
00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,520
and it says, "I'm being kept
locked down 24/7 with nothing,
18
00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:56,000
"so my life sucks.
19
00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,520
"Please tell everyone in the UK
I love them,
20
00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:03,880
"and message Louis Theroux
that I need to tell the real story,
21
00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:05,880
"but they keep me silenced."
22
00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:10,320
Here he comes. Yeah, you guys are
going to throw a mic on him? Yeah.
23
00:01:10,320 --> 00:01:12,320
Back in the back pocket,
is that cool? Yeah.
24
00:01:12,320 --> 00:01:14,440
Are they going to follow you?
25
00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,120
Like I said, as long as they don't
mind me cussin'.
26
00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,920
I got to know the gun-toting, proud
mullet-wearing zoo owner
27
00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,760
Joe Exotic in 2011.
28
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Stay where you are for a second.
There goes that serious thing.
29
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That's what I see on the internet!
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OK.
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All you see is Louis...
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00:01:33,320 --> 00:01:36,040
I was making a programme
about dangerous animals
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that live in captivity.
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ROAR
35
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Scared the hell out of me!
36
00:01:42,960 --> 00:01:45,280
Eight years later, he was convicted
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of conspiring to murder animal
rights activist Carole Baskin.
38
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The jury came back finding
Joseph Maldonado-Passage guilty
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on all 19 counts.
40
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Two of those largest ones
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00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:00,160
were the alleged use of interstate
commerce for murder for hire.
42
00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:04,200
The saga was recounted in
a seven-part documentary series
43
00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,240
that swept the world,
44
00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,440
making a global icon
of the man I'd once known.
45
00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:11,000
All right, let's go.
46
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Come on, Louis.
47
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Louis, my bud.
48
00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,840
Now a campaign was under way
casting doubt over Joe's conviction
49
00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:20,840
and aiming to have him freed.
50
00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:22,520
Pardon Joe Exotic!
51
00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,560
An army of supporters
was mobilising.
52
00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:32,560
And so, nine years on, I was going
back to pick up where I left off
53
00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,720
in the stranger-than-fiction
tale of Joe Exotic.
54
00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:54,480
Easy, you want to show him
your stuff?
55
00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:05,640
This is Isai.
56
00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:08,480
Easy? Easy.
57
00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:10,680
Yeah. How are you doing?
I'm good. How about yourself?
58
00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,200
This is Joe Exotic
Central Station, right here.
59
00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:14,680
We created this area.
60
00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,920
So this is the pardon Joe Exotic
call to arms.
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Correct.
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00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:22,840
"Dear Joe Exotic fan,
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00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,240
"I want President Trump
to hear from you
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00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,320
"in support of my
presidential pardon.
65
00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,160
"I would like to sincerely extend
thanks to you all
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00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:33,800
"for your loyalty
during this trying time."
67
00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,680
"Dear Joe Exotic, AKA Tiger King.
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00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:43,680
"Hello, my name is Ella,
I'm 12 years old, turning 13 soon.
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00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,280
"I just have a question.
Why tigers?
70
00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:47,960
"My favourite pen pal, Joe.
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00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,480
"My friend asked me to make her
pickled Brussels sprouts.
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00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:53,480
"I've never even tried them.
Have you?"
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00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,160
Does he really read all of this?
74
00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:56,120
Yes.
75
00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:58,760
He reads all of them,
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00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,080
and he responds to every
last one of those fans.
77
00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,720
Every single one of them,
he responds to 'em.
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00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:09,760
He wrote over 5,000 letters
in four months.
79
00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:14,400
Really?! Handwritten.
From prison? Yeah. Amazing.
80
00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,680
Yeah, he is singlehandedly,
81
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I mean, by far the most
popular prison inmate
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in the history of the United States.
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00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:27,600
KNOCK AT DOOR
84
00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:34,600
Hi, Joe. Hi! I'm Louis. Joe.
85
00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,320
Nice to meet you. Good to meet you.
How's it going? Good. Awesome.
86
00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,800
Awesome. Yeah. Thanks for having us.
Are you good? Yeah, good.
87
00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:41,200
We appreciate you coming.
88
00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:42,680
OK!
89
00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,160
You are the first people here
ever to do a film crew,
90
00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,560
and probably will be the last.
We appreciate it.
91
00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:51,920
Well, we appreciate it.
92
00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:53,400
This story needs telling.
93
00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,120
Has anyone seen Joe Exotic anywhere?
94
00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,400
Are y'all ready? We're ready.
Shall we go? Let's do it.
95
00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:04,880
Where do you want to take us?
96
00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:06,000
Where do you want to go?
97
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:10,320
Is there a tiger or a lion you have
more of a rapport with, maybe?
98
00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:13,120
Bears are more my thing.
99
00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:14,920
Bears and the chimps.
100
00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:16,640
Shall we see the bears?
101
00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:18,600
Yeah, why not? Want to do the bears?
102
00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:20,840
Can we do it without
your sunglasses?
103
00:05:20,840 --> 00:05:23,440
You're going to mess up
my face-lift!
104
00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:24,960
I just had a face-lift.
105
00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:28,040
Let me go get some Twinkies
for the bear.
106
00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,400
This is footage that's never
aired before,
107
00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,960
of me on my first day of filming
with Joseph Schreibvogel,
108
00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,040
better known as Joe Exotic.
109
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I'd stumbled across his website
110
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and immediately been taken
by his flamboyant personality
111
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and his enormous park.
112
00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,240
You never saw my bullet holes,
did you?
113
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I got shot in the chest three times.
114
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HE CHUCKLES
115
00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:54,560
Is it a joke?
116
00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:56,560
What are you showing me?
Tattoos of bullet holes!
117
00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:58,200
Let's see. Let me see them again!
118
00:05:58,200 --> 00:05:59,840
Show me again.
119
00:05:59,840 --> 00:06:02,880
There's one...there's one...
120
00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:04,920
..there's one.
121
00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,160
We were doing a joke and...
You've got pierced nipples, too?
122
00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:12,640
We were doing a joke...
How is that...?
123
00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:14,240
That's unconventional, isn't it?
124
00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,560
Are you a little unconventional?
Yeah.
125
00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,720
Are you happy to talk
about your private life at all?
126
00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:20,920
Hey, my life is an open book.
127
00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:22,800
I have nothing to hide.
128
00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:24,640
Then nobody can
tell stories about you.
129
00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:26,240
So, what's your story?
130
00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:27,400
What's my story?
131
00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,040
You really want to know?
Private life. You asked. Yeah.
132
00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:31,600
You really want to know? Yeah.
133
00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:33,120
OK.
134
00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:34,640
I'm gay.
135
00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:39,480
I'm married to a man -
have been for eight years -
136
00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,920
and we both have the same boyfriend
that lives with us, as well.
137
00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:46,680
So, it's kind of a menage a trois?
138
00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,080
Would that be the phrase? I guess!
139
00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,240
I don't understand French,
but yeah.
140
00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,480
Look! We need a bigger bathtub.
141
00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:02,640
Joe's zoo, the Garold Wayne
Exotic Animal Memorial Park,
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00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,960
spread out over 16 acres of
Wynnewood, Oklahoma,
143
00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:11,320
and contained more than 1,000
animals, including 150 tigers.
144
00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:14,160
Are we OK to come in? Yeah.
TIGER GROWLS
145
00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:16,320
Is this safe?
146
00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:18,240
Come here. Come here!
147
00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,920
They'll reach clear out to here.
148
00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:22,920
Ugly face!
149
00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,640
Hey, want a drink? Ugly face!
150
00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,800
OK. Smile. Big girl.
151
00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:30,800
That's some good stuff, huh?
152
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CRASH
Ooh!
153
00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,400
Come here. Monique! What?
154
00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,840
What is that?!
155
00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,080
He said, "That's my girlfriend!"
156
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He said, "My girlfriend," huh?
157
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LOW SNARL
158
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What?
159
00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,000
If I got in there with these two,
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would they be all right with me?
161
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If he was to get you...
162
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..he would not...he would not kill
you and eat you right away.
163
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He's going to torment you.
164
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I'd just shoot you.
165
00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:10,120
You would shoot me? Yeah.
In the head?
166
00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:11,280
Yeah!
167
00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:13,880
Cos I'm not going to get you back,
168
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so why make you suffer?!
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HE CHUCKLES
170
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Hm.
171
00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,880
Joe advertised his park
as a sanctuary for exotic animals
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whose private owners
could no longer keep them.
173
00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,400
All right, guys,
we can't let you touch him,
174
00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:33,800
but we can just let you see him.
175
00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,080
He's going to bring him around so
you can see him.
176
00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,000
About three weeks old,
he just got sponsored last weekend.
177
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We're waiting on the name.
178
00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:42,160
Visitors could sponsor animals,
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00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:44,560
paying for cages
with monthly donations,
180
00:08:44,560 --> 00:08:46,720
but the park made most of its money
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by allowing the public
to handle tiger cubs.
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You can talk a little bit,
can't you?
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00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,360
24 hours old. 24 hours old.
184
00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:58,600
Oh, that's the one
that had cubs last night, right?
185
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Please do not touch these guys.
186
00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:01,440
Isn't it amazing?
187
00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:02,600
How little they are.
188
00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,040
This makes 12
I have in the house now.
189
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APPLAUSE
Oh, wow.
190
00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:07,760
So, will he stay here, or...?
191
00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:12,000
Well, most of these are already
spoken for, for other zoos.
192
00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,600
Oh, OK. We'll have three that will
stay with us out of the 12.
193
00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:17,280
How much is the sponsorship?
194
00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,200
Just different.
We'll talk about it up front. OK.
195
00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,760
The most lucrative and controversial
aspect of Joe's fundraising
196
00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,640
was his cub-petting road show.
197
00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,080
It travelled America visiting malls,
198
00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:36,440
offering customers a chance to pay
for photos with infant animals.
199
00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:39,240
Olivia!
200
00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,640
Not too tight. Not too tight, baby.
There you go. It's OK.
201
00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:44,400
How are you doing?
Good. How are you?
202
00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:45,760
I'm Louis. Louis, I'm Beth.
203
00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:47,720
You've been here all week,
is that right?
204
00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,000
We started yesterday
and we'll be here through Sunday,
205
00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,080
set up every day so that we can be
here to...
206
00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,800
Hopefully people will come
and enjoy the animals
207
00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,040
and...go play with the tigers.
208
00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:01,960
Who goes in these two?
209
00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:03,360
This right here is Fergie,
210
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:07,120
and this right here, over to
your right, is the older cats.
211
00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,640
Fergie is one of the bigger...
Who's Fergie?
212
00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:11,160
He's the, uh, liger. The liger.
213
00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:12,920
And the bear?
214
00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,760
The bear, she stays
on the other side, over there.
215
00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:18,840
So, these animals could be
out here for...
216
00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,880
They'll be on the road for maybe
a couple of months? Yes.
217
00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:23,440
And how do you think they like it?
218
00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:25,800
Cos some might think,
"Oh, it's a bit stressful for them
219
00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:27,280
"being trucked around like that."
220
00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,000
It's not stressful on them at all.
221
00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,240
They're very content, very happy,
222
00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,240
and they enjoy coming out
and getting the attention.
223
00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,520
Do you think they're happy
in the cages?
224
00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,040
I don't really want this to go
anywhere else about this, OK?
225
00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:43,960
As far as they're...
226
00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,440
I don't want to say
anything else, OK?
227
00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,320
I just don't want to. OK. OK?
228
00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,080
You're basically saying, yes,
they are, basically, isn't that...?
229
00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:53,320
Well, yes, absolutely.
230
00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:54,840
I mean, this is the life they know
231
00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,600
and this is the life that they're
going to be very happy with.
232
00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:05,600
Joe's road show required
a constant stream of new cubs,
233
00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,200
and made him a frequent target
of animal rights activists.
234
00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:15,440
One in particular preoccupied him
to the point of obsession.
235
00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,760
This name Carole Baskin
keeps coming up... Mm-hm.
236
00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:24,000
..and it seems to be something
that's on your mind.
237
00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,240
See, this is...this is
what's going on right now.
238
00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:31,720
This is an alert Carole Baskin
just put out yesterday.
239
00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:32,960
Let me rewind.
240
00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,800
So, there's someone called
Carole Baskin.
241
00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:37,280
Yeah. Who is she?
242
00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,280
She's a psychotic woman
243
00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,320
that supposedly killed
her husband in '97,
244
00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:46,440
that owns Big Cat Rescue
in Tampa, Florida.
245
00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:47,800
I don't think we can say...
246
00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,240
I don't know that we can say
all that, for legal reasons.
247
00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:51,880
JOE SNIGGERS
248
00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,000
She's an animal rights person?
249
00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:56,720
We don't know what she is.
250
00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,080
She runs a...?
She runs a... Sanctuary?
251
00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,400
..shoddy sanctuary
in Tampa, Florida.
252
00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:04,480
What do you allege that she did?
253
00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:09,560
Well, she's the prime suspect
in her husband's disappearance.
254
00:12:09,560 --> 00:12:12,800
Her husband disappeared.
Yeah, in 1997.
255
00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:16,040
You think she may have...
um, whacked her husband?
256
00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:17,880
I think she fed him to the tigers.
257
00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,080
In a way, whether or not
that's true,
258
00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:24,160
what does that have to do
with her allegations against you?
259
00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,720
Well, I mean, our agenda is,
by the year 2015,
260
00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:31,840
is to control the entire cat...
exotic cat population.
261
00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:33,840
I haven't watched this in ten years.
262
00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:36,560
It's just weird.
263
00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:40,080
You know, I had no idea it was going
to lead to a federal case,
264
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:41,760
and Joe getting 22 years.
265
00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,720
You think this is just a...
a game for me?
266
00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:53,720
This is... This is how many
letters she has wrote my clients.
267
00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:58,080
Saying what?
That we are abusing animals.
268
00:12:58,080 --> 00:12:59,680
Can I see? You can.
269
00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:01,520
Which kind of clients,
what kind of clients?
270
00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:04,640
My malls, my advertisers, my shows.
271
00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,840
How badly does it hurt you?
Financial wise?
272
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,120
Yeah, her activities?
Oh... Since 2006,
273
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:14,320
she's probably cost us
$5 million plus.
274
00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:19,600
She has become one of America's
biggest domestic terrorists.
275
00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:24,360
In a way, shouldn't your focus
be keeping your park going,
276
00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,760
maximising your resources?
But I can't keep my park going
277
00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:28,560
as long as this bitch is around.
Why?
278
00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:31,400
Because she harasses
everybody we deal with.
279
00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:37,400
In the years after we filmed,
280
00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:39,920
Joe shared, his grievances
with a growing audience
281
00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,360
on his regular YouTube show.
282
00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:46,240
One thing you will never do,
bitch, is shut me up.
283
00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,520
We hear it's Carole's birthday
next month.
284
00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:51,320
We're shipping her two of these!
285
00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:55,360
His rants about Carole Baskin
developed into overt threats
286
00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:57,960
that would later be used
in evidence at Joe's trial.
287
00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:06,720
Carole Baskin better never, ever,
ever see me face to face.
288
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,440
That is how frickin'
tired of this shit I am.
289
00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:23,400
Well, hello there.
290
00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:25,000
All right?
291
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:26,760
Welcome to Big Cat Rescue!
292
00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:28,440
Thank you!
293
00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:30,000
I was worried about the weather,
294
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:31,720
but this doesn't look
too bad, does it?
295
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:33,480
I brought an umbrella this time.
296
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:35,600
Is that what you call Howard,
your umbrella?
297
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,600
THEY LAUGH
He's my rock.
298
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,720
Hey, all you cool cats and kittens,
it's Carole at Big Cat Rescue.
299
00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:45,800
Howard and Carole Baskin
300
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,360
are the husband-and-wife team
behind Big Cat Rescue,
301
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:53,000
a sanctuary in Tampa, Florida,
that takes in abused animals
302
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,680
and campaigns to end
breeding in captivity.
303
00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:01,800
I've been providing care for
exotic cats for more than 30 years,
304
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,920
and if there's one thing
I know for sure,
305
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,960
it's that big cats
don't belong in cages.
306
00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:11,320
Priya's a 17-year-old tiger.
307
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,880
And where did Priya come from,
Carole?
308
00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,600
It was a tiger breeding mill
out in Colorado
309
00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:18,480
called Serenity Springs.
310
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,480
They're breeding the cubs
for photos, mainly?
311
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:23,120
That's the primary thing.
312
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,720
People paying to have their picture
made with a cute little cub -
313
00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:29,760
and they can only use them between
about 8 to 12 weeks safely,
314
00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,040
and then there's nowhere
for them to go,
315
00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:33,960
except for the ones like her,
316
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,520
who end up just pumping out cubs
in a tiger mill.
317
00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:42,600
So, someone like Joe called
his facility a sanctuary.
318
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:46,800
He would also say, "Oh, I'm rescuing
cats from people who can't keep them
319
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,760
"and taking care of tigers
so they can live out their lives."
320
00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:51,320
So, what's the difference?
321
00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:56,680
The first time that Joe Schreibvogel
came up on my radar was in 2004,
322
00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:00,520
and he was quoted in an article
in the Oklahoman
323
00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:02,320
as saying that this lion cub
324
00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,480
that was very crippled
from all of the inbreeding
325
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:09,760
that had happened at his facility,
he was there talking about her,
326
00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:14,120
and so, from that point forward
is where I started paying attention
327
00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:16,320
to what was happening there.
328
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:17,960
Sanctuaries don't breed.
329
00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,360
They don't buy,
they don't sell these animals.
330
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,440
A place that is claiming
to be a sanctuary
331
00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:24,640
and saying that they're
rescuing animals
332
00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,320
while they're breeding more of them
for life in prison,
333
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,720
that's a zoo.
That's not a sanctuary.
334
00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:34,600
For her animal rights work,
335
00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,680
Carole has paid the price
of being fiercely hated,
336
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,600
as was shown in evidence
submitted at court.
337
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:46,640
I'm the most dangerous
exotic animal owner
338
00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:48,800
on this planet right now -
339
00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,080
and before you bring me down,
340
00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,320
it is my belief...
341
00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:56,360
..that you will stop breathing.
342
00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:03,280
As you know, in 2011,
I filmed at GW zoo, Joe's park,
343
00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:07,120
and he ranted about Carole,
it won't surprise you to know,
344
00:17:07,120 --> 00:17:11,360
calling you, at one point,
the number one terrorist in America.
345
00:17:11,360 --> 00:17:15,840
How do you account for the level
of hatred he had for you, Carole?
346
00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:22,560
I think because an organisation
like PETA coming after him
347
00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,200
is an organisation,
whereas, with me,
348
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,800
he could blame it on
a single person,
349
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,280
but the battle was never with him.
350
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:34,120
The battle's always been to protect
the big cats from people like him.
351
00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:37,560
We were the ones who were stopping
the mall exhibits.
352
00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:39,600
Right. We were effective.
353
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:41,120
We were having an impact -
354
00:17:41,120 --> 00:17:46,560
one by one, these malls were saying,
"No, you can't come here any more,"
355
00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:51,800
and that, understandably,
really pissed him off.
356
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:54,440
JOE MURMURS
357
00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,720
One of my discoveries going back
over my old footage
358
00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:01,120
was that, even with me,
359
00:18:01,120 --> 00:18:04,320
Joe had made dark and apparently
serious references
360
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,800
to the possibility
of Carole being killed.
361
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,080
I want to show you
how serious people are.
362
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:12,640
OK, put the camera off.
363
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,760
Put the camera off. I want to show
you how serious this is getting.
364
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:16,760
OK...
365
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,440
People are so fed up with it
366
00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:25,560
that this guy right here
is a hit man in Tampa, Florida,
367
00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,560
and he's gotten off
of everything he's ever done,
368
00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:30,840
and people are considering it.
369
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,320
That's how out of control
this is getting.
370
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:38,920
What is the next step? If we can't
get anywhere with this lawsuit...
371
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,360
..somebody is just
going to have to...
372
00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:43,640
I don't... I don't even know
any more.
373
00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:45,600
I've been to the
Department of Justice,
374
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,840
I've been to the Attorney General.
375
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,560
Who do you go to and say, "Look,
something bad's fixing to happen
376
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:53,960
"if y'all don't step in
and put a stop to this"?
377
00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:57,400
The A-Team?
The A-Team, there you go.
378
00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,840
But, seriously, it's getting to the
point somebody's going to die.
379
00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,280
She's either going to kill one of us
380
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,920
or somebody is going to
have her killed.
381
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,080
Um, what do you make of that?
382
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,280
Joe characteristically would talk
unguardedly
383
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,080
in front of the whole world,
384
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,120
but here he's saying it, like,
he's like, "Turn the camera off.
385
00:19:19,120 --> 00:19:22,600
"I want to tell you something off
the record, or behind the scenes,"
386
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,040
and he's saying,
"One of us is going to die,"
387
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,520
and that makes you take
it more seriously in retrospect,
388
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,720
but, at the time,
it felt...like talk.
389
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,440
I had entirely forgotten
this conversation with Joe,
390
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,680
and, at the time,
hadn't even realised
391
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:42,760
the camera was still recording.
392
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,160
I can only assume I took
what he was saying
393
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:49,200
as an expression
of his overactive imagination.
394
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,400
But, seriously, it's getting to the
point somebody's going to die.
395
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,520
She's either going to kill one of us
396
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:56,960
or somebody is going
to have her killed.
397
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:00,360
TRAIN HORN BLOWS
398
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,880
In the background to Joe's
behaviour at the park
399
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:23,600
was an area of rural Oklahoma
400
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,320
beset by drugs
and dwindling opportunities.
401
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:30,600
For many young people,
402
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,080
the zoo offered the closest thing
to an escape.
403
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,280
In 2011,
after a few days of filming,
404
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,560
I'd come to see the potential
for an entire documentary
405
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:45,480
all about Joe and his world,
406
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,360
and I began interviewing
the people around him.
407
00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:52,160
Workers lived on site in trailers,
surviving on $150 a week
408
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,080
and food donated by Wal-Mart,
409
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,240
but were pleased to have a chance
to be involved
410
00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,680
in what must have seemed
an exciting lifestyle.
411
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,880
Among those I met was Ray,
who, after a three-year stint,
412
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,400
was preparing to leave the park.
413
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,880
So, where do you actually stay?
414
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,280
I stay in the middle bedroom.
Oh, down there?
415
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:14,720
Come on.
416
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:16,120
RAY LAUGHS
417
00:21:16,120 --> 00:21:17,840
There's my room.
418
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:21,760
How old are you?
419
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:23,480
30.
420
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,320
Do you think this may be it for you,
once you've left this time?
421
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:27,880
No. No?
422
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:29,520
Joe'll call. I'll come back.
423
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:31,960
Why? Just way I am.
424
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,040
Joe gave me an opportunity
to better myself.
425
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,560
I'll do anything for Joe.
And he knows it.
426
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,720
He has my phone call...
He has my phone number!
427
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:42,760
So, where are we going?
428
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:46,800
We gotta go up to the office and
interview an applicant for a job.
429
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,280
And you were saying...
I bet you $100
430
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:56,480
that, A, he's only got
half his teeth,
431
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,640
B, he's probably been...
432
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:01,640
..a felony conviction
433
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,680
of some kind of drug charge,
434
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,360
and if he's got a car,
435
00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:11,600
which I probably doubt,
436
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,320
and nowhere to live.
437
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,240
In a way, you kind of...
438
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,840
In a way, you kind of rescue
and rehome your employees. People.
439
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:20,760
Do you? Yeah.
440
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,800
Two years ago we took
in a chimpanzee AND its owner
441
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,720
because neither one of them
had a home.
442
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,080
The members of Joe's inner circle
443
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,520
also tended to be people
looking for a second chance.
444
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,400
His park manager, John Reinke,
was a former bungee ride attendant.
445
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,920
He'd lost both his legs
in a zip line accident,
446
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,080
and had bonded with a disabled
lion called Bonedigger.
447
00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:45,520
Oh...
448
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:49,680
Man, that's a lot of weight!
449
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:51,040
Oh, my gosh.
450
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,200
He is getting so big.
451
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,320
If he starts to eat you,
what is the protocol?
452
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:56,720
If I have any problem at all,
453
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:58,920
I yell "banana",
these guys will help me out.
454
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,160
For real? Yeah. Banana? Banana.
455
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,480
Are we all right with the glasses?
456
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,640
Yeah, better... Better without.
457
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:07,880
Really bright!
458
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,320
Joe's husband, John Finlay, had been
one month out of high school
459
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,480
when he came to live at the park.
460
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:15,800
How do you think it's going so far?
461
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:17,240
Good.
462
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,560
Everything's
as it should be right now.
463
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,000
And Joe...Joe seems
to be enjoying it.
464
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,360
He was a bit tense this morning,
but now he's more relaxed.
465
00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:31,120
Yeah, he's... Everything's starting
to go as he planned. Sorry...
466
00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:35,160
Sorry. If we just get up there
and do it, is that easier? Yeah.
467
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:38,960
You've worked here for a while,
John?
468
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:40,400
Eight years. Do you enjoy it?
469
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:41,480
Oh, yeah.
470
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,200
How did you get involved?
471
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,560
I just needed a job
and come around,
472
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,520
and luckily I get hired at the time,
so...
473
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,760
Are you happy to talk about your
relationship with Joe, as well?
474
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,840
That's fine. You're basically...
475
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,840
..in a kind of a domestic
arrangement with him.
476
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:00,600
Well, yeah.
477
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,680
You could call it that.
You wear his ring.
478
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:04,320
Oh, yeah.
479
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,560
Oh, yeah. Wear it proudly, too.
480
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,400
TIGER CUB YOWLS
481
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,440
What do you love about Joe?
482
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:12,880
Everything, actually.
483
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,720
He's taught me a lot.
484
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:20,800
Uh...I was just a little snot-nosed
19-year-old when I first started,
485
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:28,680
and...now I'm 27 and know quite
a bit more than what I did.
486
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,320
And there's also Paul, right? Mm-hm.
487
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:32,960
And what is Paul?
488
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,480
He's...just something
Joe wanted to add in one day,
489
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,320
and I said yeah.
490
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,320
Isn't that right?
And does that work?
491
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:42,720
Mm-hm.
492
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,440
Paul seems a little more mysterious
than some of the other people here,
493
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,360
because he doesn't wear the uniform.
494
00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:55,320
That's because he's not an employee.
495
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,360
He's not? He's not a volunteer?
496
00:24:57,360 --> 00:25:00,680
Uh-uh. Well... I live here.
He's my other half.
497
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,240
You know what's weird is,
I met him when he was 19,
498
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:04,880
and I met him when he was 19.
499
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:06,520
JOE LAUGHS
500
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,120
Is that important to you? That's an
important part of your world?
501
00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:11,600
Yeah. Having two props, two pillars?
502
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,280
You know what? It used to never be,
because when I started this,
503
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,680
it was just me
and my other half back then,
504
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,080
but he died in 2001,
505
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:26,760
and before then,
it was never three people.
506
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:35,520
There's two men in your life.
507
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,360
Yes. Is that difficult?
508
00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:38,800
No.
509
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,240
What better could you ask for
510
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:46,720
of having a best friend,
a lover, a relationship,
511
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:52,480
someone that likes to hunt, hike,
fish and do man things
512
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,240
without having to worry about some
girl bitching about it all the time?
513
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:57,880
OK?!
514
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,800
It's also, you're never alone.
515
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,640
It's not about sex,
it's about having a friend.
516
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,320
Joe's need for companionship
517
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,760
was something many of those in his
circle would comment on -
518
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:21,240
but the vulnerability of the people
he attracted also gave him power.
519
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,400
Within his park,
he was unaccountable.
520
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,040
In later years, most of Joe's
friends would move away.
521
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,880
One of the few still in the area
is his niece Chelsea.
522
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,520
Hi, there. How are you doing?
Good. How are you?
523
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,160
You must be Chelsea. Yes, I am.
524
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:41,960
Shall we come in? Yes. OK.
525
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,440
She lives in a house that once
belonged to Joe's parents,
526
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:50,040
and which remains a repository
for family photos and memorabilia.
527
00:26:54,120 --> 00:26:55,480
That's me and Joe.
528
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,040
You were close enough to Joe
that even after you'd grown up,
529
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,880
or as you were growing up,
you were visiting the park
530
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:03,480
and volunteering at the park?
531
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:08,960
Yes, I worked there off and on
since it's been open. Mm-hm.
532
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,720
That is me playing
with one of the lions
533
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,000
that was in Joe's front yard.
534
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:14,280
That was at GW?
535
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:15,760
Yeah, that's in Joe's front yard.
536
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,320
Wow.
537
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,960
How did he... How did Joe change
as the years went by?
538
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,800
I want to say it was after he
learned how to make a quick buck,
539
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,400
really, like, "Oh, this...
540
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,120
"If you tell people this, they'll
donate money to you. Oh, cool."
541
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:31,880
And you know, I think even made
a Facebook or YouTube video
542
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:33,360
at one point in time that says,
543
00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:35,800
"Who needs to work
when you have sponsors like mine?"
544
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:37,880
And he posted a picture
of a car or something,
545
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,440
and, you know, that's exactly
his attitude over time.
546
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,920
He... The way this family
would describe him is,
547
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,400
he always thought he was
more or less above the law -
548
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:52,440
but you don't think, "Oh,
my family is capable of murder."
549
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,840
No way. But the more he changed,
550
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,640
and, like, just his attitude
towards people,
551
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,480
now I'm just like...
I'm an idiot for not seeing it.
552
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,680
I spent time with him, as well.
Right.
553
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,520
What I found was, you were aware
that he was doing things
554
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,040
that were at best questionable,
right? Mm-hm.
555
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,880
And you could see
that it was somewhat chaotic,
556
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,040
and yet it was hard not to
warm to him
557
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,600
and almost feel a little bit
protective of him.
558
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,400
What you've seen as chaotic,
I thought was normal,
559
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,520
because that's how I was taught.
560
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,800
Just like...forging
the vet certificates.
561
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:30,200
You did that? I did it.
562
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,160
I filled out vet certificates that
were already signed by a vet. I did.
563
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,120
What did that achieve, though? I'm
wondering why he asked you... So...
564
00:28:36,120 --> 00:28:38,920
You had to have a vet certificate
for certain states at that time,
565
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:40,600
and if he was going
to a different state
566
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,200
that required a vet certificate,
567
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,640
I would have to fill out
what animals he had with him
568
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:45,880
and then send it to them.
569
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,320
To give the impression that a
local vet had checked them out? Yes.
570
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:50,960
I didn't know it was illegal,
571
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,520
just like running people's credit
cards every month,
572
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,240
writing down their credit card
numbers and keeping it on file.
573
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,880
I didn't know
that was illegal either.
574
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,760
Because after a while, I would have
to take phone calls of people irate,
575
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,560
"I told you to stop running
my credit card
576
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,000
"and you ran it again this month,"
and... Yeah.
577
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,280
It seems to me that he was
increasingly intent
578
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:13,920
on becoming famous.
579
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,360
He's dying to be famous,
like, that was his goal.
580
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,000
I remember the first...
581
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,680
..YouTube video he made,
one of the first ones,
582
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,240
it was like, "Oh, folks,
I'm going to Hollywood.
583
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,920
"My dream's come true.
I'm going to Hollywood."
584
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,560
And that never happened,
he never went to Hollywood,
585
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,560
but he made his own Hollywood.
586
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,760
His little fortress up there
that he created,
587
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:39,520
he did what he wanted to,
588
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,280
and, you know, got away with it
for so long.
589
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,840
Joe's quest for fame stretched
back years.
590
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,640
Even in his time before the zoo,
591
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,120
while running a pet store in Texas
with his older brother, GW,
592
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,760
he'd carefully saved
all his newspaper cuttings.
593
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,000
Show business, my God!
594
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,320
Light might need to come closer.
595
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:12,880
In my time at the park,
596
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,080
he'd hosted a low-budget
YouTube show.
597
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,080
I think we have a Gary from Tulsa,
Oklahoma, on there
598
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:19,480
that says he can't hear me.
599
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:20,920
Let me turn you up, then.
600
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:22,520
OK, go ahead and talk.
601
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,240
Julie from Colorado - I think!
602
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,240
Trying to keep track of all these
fans all over the United States.
603
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,080
FANFARE PLAYS
604
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,720
Later, a succession of TV producers
would make their way to the zoo
605
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,880
and add polish to his broadcasts,
creating portentous graphics
606
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,400
as Joe continued to fixate
on his feuds
607
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,240
in freewheeling attacks
on perceived enemies.
608
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,080
..fucking nuts,
or Carole Baskin or PETA
609
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,320
crawl this fence and try and hurt
any of my animals again,
610
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,960
you can guaran-goddamn-tee I'll
put a cap in your ass the first time
611
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,160
to make you squirm
around on the ground,
612
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,760
and then I'll put a bullet right
between your fucking eyes.
613
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,280
# Cos it's a big forty acres
614
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,640
# And if you're not careful... #
615
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,720
A short-lived musical career
would also be an opportunity
616
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:15,160
to antagonise the woman he saw
as his nemesis, Carole Baskin.
617
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,600
# ..No bones, no remains
618
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,320
# But that won't change the fact
619
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,880
# That Don sure ain't
coming back... #
620
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:24,960
Glossy and over the top,
621
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,800
one of his videos enacted a
conspiracy theory
622
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,840
about Carole and her
missing husband, Don Lewis.
623
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,200
The surprisingly strong vocal
performance
624
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,480
was later revealed not to be by Joe.
625
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:40,960
Did y'all come all the way
over from the UK?
626
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,200
Yeah. We've been talking to
a few different people...
627
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,480
Many of Joe's show business efforts
involved him doing magic
628
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,200
using the name Cody Ryan.
629
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,600
The performances were billed
as fundraisers for the park,
630
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,440
and, in the early days,
involved a young illusionist
631
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,840
who still calls himself
Johnny Magic.
632
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:01,720
That is in Oklahoma City.
633
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,560
So, this would have been
February-ish 2003.
634
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:10,600
We've been doing this
for about a month now, together.
635
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,680
Each of us have been performing
for over six years,
636
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:15,920
and all of the proceeds of our show
637
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,800
go to help the animals
at the animal park.
638
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:20,200
Whoa.
639
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,240
Is that you? Yeah.
640
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,640
This was actually one of the first
times I went out to the park.
641
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,680
So, you would
have been in your teens.
642
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,600
I was just turned 19
about that time.
643
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,920
So, how long were you
associated with Joe?
644
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,040
Probably about eight months.
Were you living there?
645
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,840
Yes, I was living
in the trailers out back.
646
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,280
THEY LAUGH
647
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,720
That's quite sweet, in a funny way.
648
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,960
It looks like
he's really having fun.
649
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:46,760
Yeah.
650
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:48,840
The Joe I met, Joe Schreibvogel,
651
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,240
was not this over-the-top
push-it-in-your-face...
652
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:53,880
He was more shy.
653
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,480
How did it happen
that you finally left?
654
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,800
I mean, what was that decision like?
655
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,240
Started going by Joe Exotic -
in those eight months...
656
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,400
..I saw the power, money and ego
go to his head.
657
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,440
You have hundreds
of people coming up
658
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,000
and saying, "Hey, you did a great
job, great show, we enjoyed it.
659
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,280
"Thanks for doing what you're doing
for the animals."
660
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,200
Suddenly, Joe's getting
all this recognition,
661
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,680
all this recognition of,
"Hey, that's great, that's great."
662
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:20,720
I think between that building up
of the ego
663
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,000
and then the constant cash flow,
664
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,560
and, you know, this is pre the
little square card-readers,
665
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,360
this is mainly $10,000 cash
a weekend.
666
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,680
Suddenly you're looking
at a minimum of $40,000 a month
667
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,840
that he was getting
into the animal park.
668
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,320
And then Joe would start to buy
extravagant gifts for people,
669
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,960
like a brand-new truck
or a four-wheeler.
670
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,680
And knowing that Joe didn't
have this money, you're like,
671
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,520
"Hmm, I know we just raised $16,000
this last weekend,
672
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,560
"and he goes out and buys two
new four-wheelers for these people."
673
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,400
Who was he buying four-wheelers for?
674
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,240
The one person I remember he bought
a truck and a four-wheeler for
675
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,360
was John Finlay. Mm-hm.
I know he bought it for him.
676
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:58,760
And then there was other people
677
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,320
that, you know, he was either
flirting with or whatnot
678
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:02,760
that he bought things for that.
679
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,040
That was another thing, is that
when a cat was...
680
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,560
We were told a cat...
by other crew members of the park,
681
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,120
"Joe got rid of that cat because
we can't afford to feed that cat."
682
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,520
How can we not afford
to feed all these animals?
683
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,560
We're bringing in, at minimum,
40,000 a month.
684
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,840
He gets rid of them at the drop
of a hat,
685
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,320
while he could have sold
the jewellery, sold the truck,
686
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,880
sold all these nice things
that he was buying.
687
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,320
And that's where I was like,
"I've got to get out of here."
688
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,040
The high price of Joe's lifestyle
and his need for money
689
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,440
fed into Joe's conflict with Carole.
690
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:43,960
We can prove she's cost us $10.6
million in the last three years.
691
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:45,920
Carole? Yeah.
692
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,880
So our lawsuit
will be for 15 million.
693
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,800
What's the... What's the good news?
694
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:55,440
I'm going to win. Oh!
LAUGHTER
695
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:59,560
As time went on, the dispute
would play out in lawsuits.
696
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,520
How can you not lose? Yeah.
697
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,760
This whole box is full of nothing
but letters she's wrote my clients.
698
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:09,760
Harassment letters. Yeah.
699
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:18,520
Hang in there a little bit, guys,
and we'll all be driving Maseratis
700
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,160
compliments of Carole Baskin.
701
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:22,560
LAUGHTER
702
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,600
OK, senor? I'll get you
your own plane
703
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,240
to go to Honduras
and pick up ladies.
704
00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:30,480
LAUGHTER
705
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:37,440
So, you're filing
a lawsuit for lost earnings
706
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,280
to the tune of $15 million? Yes.
707
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,680
Because of cancelled performances
of your magic show
708
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,000
and your animal road show. Yes.
709
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,320
And visits to the park, too? Yep.
710
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:51,000
Slander, defamation of character.
711
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,040
The whole nine yards.
712
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:54,840
She's already got a suit against me.
713
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:56,120
For what?
714
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,520
For that trademark
infringement thing!
715
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,480
Because you called your road show...
716
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,240
Big Cat Rescue Entertainment Group.
717
00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:05,040
And her outfit is called...?
Big Cat Rescue.
718
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,280
Did it not occur to you
that those were quite close
719
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:08,480
when you named the show?
720
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,680
There's five other places
called Big Cat Rescue. Who cares?
721
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,160
You have a beef with her,
722
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,200
so did you slightly do it
to piss her off? No.
723
00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:19,640
Not at all!
724
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:22,280
Not at all.
725
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:23,920
Didn't even think about it.
726
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,360
She'll fight you.
727
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,400
I'm sure she'll fight me.
728
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,280
But there ain't no way she's going
to win in front of a jury.
729
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,320
NEWS REPORT: An Oklahoma man
who goes by the name Joe Exotic
730
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:42,400
has agreed to pay a Florida animal
sanctuary nearly $1 million
731
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,040
to resolve a trademark
infringement lawsuit
732
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,840
filed more than two years ago
in federal court.
733
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:52,400
Well, she got her large judgment
that she got against us...
734
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,040
Joe did not win his legal case.
735
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:59,320
In a local news report,
he spun his loss as a positive.
736
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,080
Declaring bankruptcy,
737
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,120
he said he saw his
financial collapse
738
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,760
as the launchpad for a new career.
739
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,000
I have signed a movie contract,
740
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,560
I have signed
several magazine deals,
741
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,880
and I'm going Hollywood,
742
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,520
thanks to all the harassment
and publicity.
743
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,600
I could never have marketed myself
744
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,040
the way that the animal rights
people marketed me,
745
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:27,000
and my television producers
and my PR firm
746
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,000
all say the same thing.
747
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,960
It doesn't matter how bad somebody
hates you,
748
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:33,920
if you're on TV
or if you're in a magazine,
749
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,520
they're going to watch it,
they're going to buy it,
750
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,040
just to see
what the hell you're up to.
751
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,680
By 2016, Joe had still not paid
Howard and Carole
752
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:47,680
the million-dollar judgment.
753
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,320
That year, he transferred
control of his park to a new friend
754
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,600
to keep it out of the hands
of the Baskins,
755
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,200
while continuing to work there and
hanging on to a few of his animals.
756
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:03,960
Joe's friend was a high-rolling
exotic animal owner named Jeff Lowe.
757
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,360
Lowe announced his arrival on the
scene during a mediation session
758
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,760
intended to resolve
the financial issues
759
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:13,560
between Joe and the Baskins.
760
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,840
It was around this time, while
working at the park under Jeff,
761
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,680
that Joe began plotting
Carole's murder.
762
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,320
Do you have a sense of when
this went into high gear,
763
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:15,760
and what was behind that?
764
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,400
In November of 2017,
765
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,560
I'm sitting at my desk,
the phone rings, I pick it up
766
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,680
and a voice says,
"Howard, this is..."
767
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,960
or, "Mr Baskin, this is
the Fish and Wildlife Service
768
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:32,040
"and the FBI," at which point
I'm thinking, "What did I do?!"
769
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:36,600
And they said, "Look, we don't want
to worry you or upset you,
770
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:40,800
"but we want you to be advised
that we have information
771
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:44,600
"that Joe is actively trying to hire
someone to kill Carole.
772
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,040
"We are on it,
we're monitoring it,
773
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,440
"but we want you
to take precautions."
774
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,760
Meantime, day after day,
we're waiting for them
775
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:57,000
to finally get enough on him
to feel like they could arrest him.
776
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:05,040
Joe's case went to trial
in March 2019.
777
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,560
He was charged with two counts
of murder for hire
778
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:09,760
involving two different hit men.
779
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:22,560
In undercover recordings,
780
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,880
jurors heard a zoo worker called
Allen Glover,
781
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,480
who Joe had paid $3,000
to kill Carole.
782
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:42,080
I sat through the trial
and, like, I wanted to bawl,
783
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,360
because stuff was coming out,
like, hard-fact evidence of stuff,
784
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:47,360
and I didn't want to believe it.
785
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,840
I have the transcripts of all that.
Do you?
786
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,240
Yeah. We might take a look at that?
Yeah, that's fine.
787
00:40:53,240 --> 00:40:55,080
I've got 'em over here in this box.
788
00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:01,880
This one is... It'll tell
you whose transcript it is.
789
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,520
John Finlay's. Joe's husband.
790
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,840
"Who asked you to take Mr Glover
to Dallas?"
791
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,800
Allen Glover was the guy
who was allegedly the hit man.
792
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:15,840
Yeah. I was there for Allen's
testimony, too.
793
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,960
It says, "Mr Schreibvogel."
That's Joe Exotic. Mm-hm.
794
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:22,560
And then it says,
795
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,960
"Did you learn why you were
taking Mr Glover to Dallas?"
796
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,320
"Yes." "What did he tell you?"
797
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,680
"He called me and he was hesitant
of what to tell me.
798
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:34,440
"Then he told me I was taking Allen
down there to get a fake ID
799
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,800
"so he could go take care
of Carole."
800
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:40,800
And then Allen says
that he took the cash
801
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:44,400
and then started driving to Florida
802
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:49,520
and he spent all of his money on
drugs and booze when he got there!
803
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,400
And couldn't make it any further.
Allen Glover? Yeah.
804
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,320
After Joe's first plan
to kill Carole failed,
805
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,520
he reached out to another hit man
who, unknown to him,
806
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:04,960
was an undercover FBI agent.
807
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,800
Joe talked in detail
about how much he would pay
808
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:09,440
and the best way to do it.
809
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,440
Joe was also charged with
the unlawful shooting of five tigers
810
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:26,440
in his possession, allegedly to make
room for a travelling circus
811
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:30,360
that had offered to pay him $5,000
to board their animals.
812
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:35,080
I think it's been said by friends
of Joe that he shot the tigers
813
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:36,680
because they were infirm.
814
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:38,480
No. You don't think so?
815
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,560
No, because I have seen the pictures
816
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:44,160
of the bones they dug up,
and the studies -
817
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,000
and that's one thing
no-one has made a big deal about.
818
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:48,480
It was said in the trial
819
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:50,720
that there was nothing wrong
with those cats.
820
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,440
After just three hours
of deliberation,
821
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,000
the jury convicted Joe
on all counts.
822
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:06,120
It was noted that Joe had been
largely without supporters at trial.
823
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:09,920
Alone in jail, he blamed his legal
woes on Jeff Lowe,
824
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,240
saying his old friend had set him up
825
00:43:12,240 --> 00:43:15,240
as a way of getting final control
of the park.
826
00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:18,240
Password. Er, the usual one.
827
00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:22,080
Joe's sense of abandonment
comes across in a recording
828
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,360
used in evidence of a phone call
829
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:28,040
with the man who'd once told me
he loved everything about Joe -
830
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,480
his ex-husband, John Finlay.
831
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,120
She wanted to shut down his zoo,
832
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:42,800
and he wanted her gone.
833
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,680
When Tiger King launched
on Netflix in March 2020,
834
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,600
its surreal,
larger-than-life depiction
835
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:50,120
of the world of big cat owners
836
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,320
quickly made it
a cultural phenomenon
837
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:56,400
He's a completely insane,
gay, gun-toting
838
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,640
drug addict fanatic.
839
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:00,440
Arriving at the height of lockdown,
840
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:04,360
its compulsive storytelling
provided a much-needed diversion.
841
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:07,000
The well-known zoo owner
was taken into custody.
842
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,760
He could be looking at
nearly 80 years in prison.
843
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,240
The series' jaw-dropping
twists and turns
844
00:45:12,240 --> 00:45:15,080
left many sharing Joe's view
that had been set up
845
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,120
and that the real villains
of the piece
846
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:20,000
were Jeff Lowe and Carole Baskin.
847
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,560
Our mission is to ban
the private possession
848
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:24,240
of these magnificent animals.
849
00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:26,280
Episode three aired theories
850
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,720
that Carole might have murdered
her ex-husband Don.
851
00:45:29,720 --> 00:45:31,760
It's why we haven't spoken out.
852
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,520
Because you're afraid
of Carole Baskin?
853
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:36,040
Oh, yes, I am.
854
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:37,880
I am.
855
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:40,800
Several other faces familiar to me
also appeared,
856
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:43,560
including a shirtless John Finlay.
857
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:47,520
I was Joe's right-hand man
for 16 years.
858
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:50,840
I don't know what I would
go to prison for.
859
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:55,600
By the time the title appeared
on the final episode,
860
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,800
the news was reporting
that fans of the series
861
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,120
had taken social media by storm.
862
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,720
REPORTER: Stars like Jared Leto
posting pictures
863
00:46:03,720 --> 00:46:05,280
dressed up like Joe Exotic,
864
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,560
and Cardi B wants to free
the Tiger King.
865
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:11,640
Amid all the adulation
and Tiger King mania,
866
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:16,760
a small minority raised concern
about some aspects of the series.
867
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,160
Why did you convict Joe Exotic?
868
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:21,320
One internet streaming channel
869
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,360
interviewed a juror at Joe's trial.
870
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:26,080
The documentary, or docu-series,
871
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:29,720
is really not even close
to what we saw in court.
872
00:46:29,720 --> 00:46:33,360
It makes the jury look
like we were incompetent
873
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:37,560
and that we convicted him
on basically nothing,
874
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,720
when it wasn't like that at all.
875
00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:50,960
The dissenting voices
were proving no obstacle
876
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:52,880
to Tiger King's world domination.
877
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,440
A second series was
said to be in the works,
878
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:57,880
and members of the cast were now
in high demand
879
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:01,160
for interviews, live shows
and spin-off projects.
880
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:06,440
Without realising it, I'd wandered
into something very different
881
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,880
to my normal documentary terrain.
882
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:17,920
I got an e-mail with a letter
attachment, which is from a law firm
883
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:22,840
acting on behalf of the producers
of Tiger King, the TV series.
884
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:26,720
It says, "Dear Mr Theroux,
we write in connection
885
00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:30,000
"with the proposed documentary
project for BBC Two
886
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:33,840
"about Joseph Maldonado,
AKA Joe Exotic.
887
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:36,200
"It's come to our client's attention
888
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:39,320
"that Mindhouse has recently
approached Josh Dial, Eric Love,
889
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:42,560
"John Reinke,
James Garretson, Tim Stark,
890
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:45,000
"Joseph Maldonado..." -
that's Joe Exotic -
891
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:48,440
"..Dillon Passage Maldonado..." -
that's his latest husband -
892
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:50,120
"..and Kelci Saffery.
893
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:52,320
"We are writing to point
out that the participation
894
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,000
"of any of these individuals
in your programme
895
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,240
"would violate their
exclusive agreements with RGP
896
00:47:58,240 --> 00:48:01,600
"and put you in the position
of being liable
897
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:05,360
"for tortious interference
with contract."
898
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:08,080
I don't know what that is,
but it doesn't sound good.
899
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:11,080
"Tortious interference
can create liability
900
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:14,640
"for possibly millions
of dollars in punitive damages."
901
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:17,320
It's annoying, is what it is.
902
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:20,080
You know, we didn't know about any
of this until the letter arrived.
903
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:21,760
No-one we'd contacted
904
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:25,480
had said that they were under
an exclusive relationship.
905
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:33,080
There was no question it was a bump
in the road.
906
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,800
Having been invited back by Joe,
907
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,040
I now found he'd signed something
908
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:41,280
making it legally impossible
for me to contact him.
909
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:47,480
Also off limits was Eric Love,
the Texas private investigator
910
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:50,440
behind the campaign
for Joe's pardon.
911
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:53,880
President Trump,
please pardon Joe Exotic.
912
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:58,440
Hi, we're here
for Francisco Hernandez.
913
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:02,400
However, on the bright side,
Eric's two partners on the project,
914
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,240
lawyers Francisco Hernandez
and Jeff Hoover,
915
00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:08,320
had not signed contracts
with the Tiger King producers,
916
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:10,320
meaning I could speak to them.
917
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:11,760
They had agreed to meet me
918
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:14,720
to explain why they were so keen
to see Joe freed.
919
00:49:14,720 --> 00:49:16,640
Hi. How are you?
920
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:18,640
Thank you for doing this.
You're welcome.
921
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:21,440
So, basically, as I understand it,
922
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:25,240
you weren't part of his defence
counsel at trial.
923
00:49:25,240 --> 00:49:27,920
That's correct, isn't it? He had a
different defender. Correct.
924
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:31,880
How did you become involved
in this whole thing?
925
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,720
Well, we became involved
when Eric Love,
926
00:49:34,720 --> 00:49:38,600
who I'd befriended a couple
of years before, came to me
927
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:42,000
and asked if I were
interested in jumping on a case
928
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:43,480
that he had just gotten hired on.
929
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:45,440
So, he came in and asked me
if I'd watched the show,
930
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:46,680
and, of course, who hasn't?
931
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:49,680
And, so, then I volunteered
to get on the case.
932
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,480
We get on the case,
what, was it around April, Eric?
933
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:54,840
He's standing right behind you.
Yeah.
934
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,880
At this point, Eric Love
had entered the room,
935
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:01,320
putting me in a delicate
legal situation.
936
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:03,280
This is Eric Love right here.
937
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:07,000
Now, before you film him, Jack,
we've been advised by our lawyers
938
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:12,280
that I think Eric signed something
that made them nervous.
939
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:19,000
I know these two guys are,
but I think we were advised
940
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,040
that you were in
an exclusive arrangement.
941
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:28,120
Hang on, Jack. I don't
think we've... I don't think...
942
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:29,640
I'd like to film you.
943
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:33,480
I just don't know if we're going
to get in legal hot water.
944
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:36,840
I wasn't entirely certain,
but I had a bad feeling
945
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:40,520
that tortious interference
might be looming into view.
946
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:44,760
"I acknowledge and agree
that I shall not participate
947
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:46,760
"nor grant any rights to my likeness
948
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:49,600
"in connection with any other
documentary projects
949
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:53,120
"based on substantive and creative
concepts of storylines
950
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:55,560
"of the programme,
951
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:58,360
"including Joe Exotic,
based on themes of big cats."
952
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:00,320
Maybe that is exclusive.
953
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:04,480
You know what?
I think we'll leave it for now.
954
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:07,720
Let's focus on the matter at hand.
955
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:14,160
What's going to happen? Do you think
you're going to get a pardon?
956
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:16,640
I expect a pardon, or a commutation.
957
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:20,520
It is before the President, front
and centre, with his main advisers.
958
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:24,840
They're very aware
of who Joe Exotic is, very aware.
959
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:28,600
Joe was convicted because the people
that he put his trust in
960
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:31,720
and all of his confidence
turned on him, set him up -
961
00:51:31,720 --> 00:51:34,520
it was a set-up.
Not to put him in prison -
962
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:38,120
I guarantee you Jeff Lowe never
thought Joe would end up in prison.
963
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:41,400
He just wanted control of the...
rip off the zoo from him.
964
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:43,680
Carole Baskin never
would have thought
965
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:45,920
that he would go to prison
for 22 years.
966
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:47,760
Joe was convicted at trial, right?
Correct.
967
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:52,360
Some of the evidence was extremely
persuasive, I would submit,
968
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:54,200
and they had him on tape, right?
969
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,120
Persuasive as to what?
970
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:59,480
Talking about an intent
to kill Carole Baskin.
971
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:04,920
OK. If you're going to kill
somebody, you don't talk about it.
972
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:07,240
OK? If you really want to hire
somebody to kill somebody,
973
00:52:07,240 --> 00:52:09,920
you don't talk about, you don't
put it on the internet. No.
974
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:12,720
So, you're saying
that even though he said that,
975
00:52:12,720 --> 00:52:14,240
he didn't really mean it?
976
00:52:14,240 --> 00:52:15,360
Yeah.
977
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:17,760
You know, I can say,
"I'm going to kill the President,
978
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:19,440
"I'm going to kill the President!"
979
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,360
If I don't take any affirmative
steps to go kill the President,
980
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:23,920
it's not a murder for hire,
981
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,320
or it's not an intent
to kill the President.
982
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:30,200
I mean, Joe was someone
who clearly, I would argue...
983
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:34,040
..wanted to see Carole Baskin
dead, right?
984
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:35,840
You know,
if she'd fallen under a bus,
985
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,320
he would have been dancing
in the street, right?
986
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:40,160
He loathed her... He loathed her.
987
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:42,280
..and dedicated hours,
days, weeks...
988
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:46,960
Yeah. ..to indicating to the world
how much he hated her,
989
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:48,320
how happy he would be
990
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:50,520
if only she was dead.
Because she was such a hypocrite.
991
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:53,120
She was doing what she was
criticising Joe of doing.
992
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:55,480
The key detail in the terms
of the difference
993
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:59,040
between what Carole Baskin does at
her facility and what Joe was doing
994
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:01,920
is her whole mission
was to stop breeding
995
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,240
in America, right, of tigers,
996
00:53:04,240 --> 00:53:05,960
and Joe's...and Joe was
the opposite.
997
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:08,000
He was breeding as many
as possible. He was.
998
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:11,960
I mean, if you really go back and
look, who do people think was evil?
999
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:15,920
Even if you take those
statements as true,
1000
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:17,480
Carole was evil.
1001
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:19,960
Everybody believes,
with zero evidence,
1002
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:22,080
that Carole Baskin
killed her husband.
1003
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,880
Everybody believes beyond a
reasonable doubt that Carole Baskin
1004
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:29,120
killed her husband in 1997,
just by the way she speaks.
1005
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:31,480
She reeks deception.
1006
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:35,200
Joe just reeks naiveness.
1007
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:37,880
But I think that's why
so many people
1008
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:40,800
that watched the TV show
support Joe.
1009
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:42,760
Because of seeing her on TV,
1010
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:46,000
seeing the way she was speaking,
seeing the things she was saying,
1011
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,200
everybody's like,
"That woman's lying."
1012
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:57,000
Whatever its legal merits,
1013
00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:00,360
and though it mainly seemed
to be the side effect of a TV show,
1014
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:02,000
Joe's campaign for a pardon
1015
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:05,080
was being viewed as having
a real chance of success.
1016
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:11,360
Carole Baskin will never
recover from this,
1017
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,320
she's the most
hated woman on Earth.
1018
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:15,600
Meanwhile, Joe's former friend,
Jeff Lowe,
1019
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:19,280
gave crowing interviews
from what had once been Joe's zoo
1020
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:22,520
about the outcome of the case
and the series.
1021
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:23,760
She deserves it.
1022
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:25,480
She deserves
every bit of criticism,
1023
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:27,640
and this is better
than her dying.
1024
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:30,680
You know, everybody said,
"Don't you want her dead?"
1025
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:32,800
I wouldn't miss her if she died,
1026
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:36,160
but I'd rather see her suffer
through this same shit
1027
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:38,200
that she put everybody else through.
1028
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:46,720
Jeff Lowe's reign at the park
proved short lived.
1029
00:54:46,720 --> 00:54:48,960
Scant months after this interview,
1030
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:52,200
in the latest twist of
the long-running legal drama,
1031
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:55,840
the courts forced the transfer
of the park to the Baskins.
1032
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:01,000
LINE RINGS
1033
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:03,560
VOICEMAIL: You've reached the
cellphone of Howard Baskin.
1034
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:04,800
Please leave a message
1035
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:07,200
and I'll call you back
as soon as I can. Thank you.
1036
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:09,880
Hi, Howard, it's Louis,
Louis Theroux, calling.
1037
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:12,320
We're just a few minutes away
from the park,
1038
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:15,640
so we will see you there shortly.
1039
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:17,280
Bye-bye.
1040
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:19,720
Nine years since
I'd last been there,
1041
00:55:19,720 --> 00:55:23,160
I was returning to Joe's zoo
to meet Carole and Howard.
1042
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:28,360
The site of the tiger breeding
they'd fought so hard to end
1043
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:31,360
and where the plotting of Carole's
murder had taken place
1044
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:34,040
was now in the hands of the Baskins.
1045
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:38,280
They're already there, waiting.
1046
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:46,960
You guys like to be punctual,
don't you?
1047
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:49,400
Sir, do you have your tickets?
LOUIS LAUGHS
1048
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:51,680
Did you buy them online,
your tickets?
1049
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:53,160
Let me open the gate.
1050
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:54,840
You can drive in. OK!
1051
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:05,720
Here we are!
Nice to see you, Carole.
1052
00:56:05,720 --> 00:56:07,520
How are you? I'm good. How are you?
1053
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:09,560
I'm good. Shall we head in?
1054
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:15,280
You're probably a better tour guide
to this place than I would be.
1055
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:23,400
Wow. I'm told that these were all
tigers on this side,
1056
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:26,240
and that those were bears.
Yeah, I think they would have been.
1057
00:56:26,240 --> 00:56:27,840
In fact, I've been in that cage.
1058
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:29,560
Oh, really?! Yeah.
1059
00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:32,160
What's going on here?
1060
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:34,240
There's a bear and a... And a tiger.
1061
00:56:34,240 --> 00:56:37,320
Look at that. Can you see that?
They're kind of cuddling.
1062
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:40,760
That's what we promote here,
is love, no matter who you are.
1063
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:43,480
Love for Carole Baskin?
JOE LAUGHS
1064
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:45,000
Come on in.
1065
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:46,480
RADIO CHIRPS
1066
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:48,120
Are you calling me?
1067
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:50,360
ON RADIO: Did you say you wanted me
to holler at you
1068
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:52,040
when I'm getting
the tigers out again?
1069
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:57,320
Who would have written that,
do you think?
1070
00:56:57,320 --> 00:56:59,480
I'm guessing somebody
in Jeff Lowe's crew.
1071
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:01,800
Is there much of that?
There's a lot of that.
1072
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:03,240
A lot of that,
1073
00:57:03,240 --> 00:57:05,240
that's really disgusting.
1074
00:57:05,240 --> 00:57:07,080
Did you understand that one?
1075
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:09,480
I did the samba in
Dancing With The Stars... Ah!
1076
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:11,920
..and I did it very badly!
1077
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:15,240
It was my last dance. It was so bad.
1078
00:57:15,240 --> 00:57:18,840
This was all the pens that were
storage, you know,
1079
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:22,040
where they used
to keep the surplus tigers.
1080
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:26,520
So, some of them would be,
you know, 20 years in there.
1081
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:28,160
It's just so sad.
1082
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:36,000
This was the office, I think.
1083
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:46,080
Weird that...this isn't from Joe,
1084
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:49,200
this is from Jeff Lowe
and his team, right?
1085
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:52,600
What's their reason
for holding so much animosity?
1086
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:56,200
Well, we took the property and got
a court order that he had to leave.
1087
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:59,160
So, you know,
we're not his best friend.
1088
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:01,120
The whole property was trashed.
1089
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:02,920
Very intentional.
1090
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:05,600
Were there any animals
when you took the place?
1091
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:11,200
Yes. There were three tigers,
11 wolves and two bears.
1092
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:13,600
Where did they go?
1093
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:15,720
They went to a sanctuary
in Colorado.
1094
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:22,400
Oof... Yeah.
That's a bone, isn't it?
1095
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:25,440
I have the feeling there's
a lot of bones in this pile.
1096
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:27,080
Weird.
1097
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:29,920
Have you been into Joe's house?
1098
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:31,760
It's just full of garbage.
1099
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:34,000
For real? Yeah.
1100
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:39,040
With an uneasy feeling
of trespassing,
1101
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:42,720
I was entering the wreckage of what
I had once known as Joe's home.
1102
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:45,400
I think this was his bedroom.
1103
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:50,000
Yikes.
1104
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:52,920
And, look, this is where they kept
the tiger cubs, Carole.
1105
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:54,560
What a godawful nursery.
1106
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:56,760
Oh, my gosh,
and there are dick pics
1107
00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:59,040
down here on the floor
that you may want, as well!
1108
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:01,360
Are you serious?
I'm looking down at my feet!
1109
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:02,840
Yeah, right there.
1110
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:04,280
Oh, my goodness.
1111
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:12,600
That is the reproductive organ
of the male of the human species.
1112
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:14,280
In a state of arousal.
1113
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:20,840
I mean, it takes a bit of work
for a place to look this bad.
1114
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:26,800
Do you feel animosity
towards him, Carole?
1115
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:30,480
I don't. You know, I hate
what these people do to the animals,
1116
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:32,280
but I don't hold that against them.
1117
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:44,080
Jeff Lowe has denied vandalising
Joe's park.
1118
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:48,760
Either way, the sight of
the desolation and the graffiti
1119
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:50,960
had put me in mind of the allegation
1120
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:53,160
that Carole had murdered
her husband, Don.
1121
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:58,240
A millionaire businessman
and amateur aviator,
1122
00:59:58,240 --> 00:59:59,760
he disappeared in 1997,
1123
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:04,400
two months after applying for a
restraining order against Carole.
1124
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:08,400
Don's children continue to think
she was involved.
1125
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:11,320
I was aware that for both her
and Howard,
1126
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:14,560
it was, understandably,
a sensitive subject.
1127
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:17,600
I guess I want to invite you
1128
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:20,760
to say what you would like
to say about that.
1129
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:24,120
One of the things that was most
charming about Don
1130
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:27,000
was that he was this
charismatic daredevil,
1131
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:30,400
and he was always
doing crazy things.
1132
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:35,480
But by 1997, it seemed
like things were getting crazier.
1133
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:38,160
The things that he was doing
were crazier.
1134
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:41,160
I mean, he was somebody
who was flying without a licence,
1135
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:42,840
and crashed three planes.
1136
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:45,840
The psychiatrist diagnosed him
as being bipolar
1137
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:48,080
and having altered mental status,
1138
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:50,480
and he was getting
extremely paranoid,
1139
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:53,960
and it was at that time that
he filed the restraining order.
1140
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:56,360
A restraining order against you.
Against me.
1141
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:58,600
Let me ask you a question, Louis.
1142
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:03,160
If you sincerely believed
that your spouse was out to kill you
1143
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:05,880
and you went downtown to get
a restraining order,
1144
01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:09,440
and they said, "No, this isn't good
enough," you have two choices.
1145
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:12,440
You can go home and sleep
in the same bed with the person
1146
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:14,320
who you think is going to kill you,
1147
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:18,120
or you can go to a hotel, call your
lawyer and say, "I want a divorce."
1148
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:19,760
What's your pick?
1149
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:23,800
So, you're making the point that Don
continued to live with Carole.
1150
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:26,440
Correct? Was it a happy marriage?
1151
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:28,800
I adored Don.
1152
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:32,800
We had been together from the time
that I was 19 years old.
1153
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:38,240
So, I mean, for 11 years,
he was the centre of my universe.
1154
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:40,920
He was crazy, even at his best,
1155
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:43,000
but it was part of what I loved
about him.
1156
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:44,120
When you first met him,
1157
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:46,080
you were wandering the streets
in Tampa, right,
1158
01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:48,640
having had a really bad...
Let me just ask...
1159
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:52,520
I mean, we talked about doing
a little of this, giving an example.
1160
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:54,920
You could do a whole hour
documentary
1161
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:57,280
on all the stuff about Don,
1162
01:01:57,280 --> 01:02:00,640
and I don't want to sit here
and talk for an hour about Don.
1163
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:03,720
Can we go to what else
you want to do?
1164
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:06,280
Sure. I appreciate it.
1165
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:10,320
You feel like you've said
what you wanted to say?
1166
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:14,800
I think... People often ask me,
"What do you think happened to him?"
1167
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:17,640
And I had so many theories
at the time,
1168
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:20,880
but I think the thing that makes
the most sense
1169
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:25,760
is that he crashed an experimental
or an ultralight out over the Gulf,
1170
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:27,720
because if it was anything else,
1171
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:29,800
I think we would have found
him by now.
1172
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:37,120
You OK, Howard?
1173
01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:39,480
Yep. He's protective.
1174
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:41,680
He is. He's got his steely side.
1175
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:46,080
So, what else would you like
to accomplish today?
1176
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:51,960
Well, there's a greater story here,
which is to do with, I suppose,
1177
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:56,480
the way in which you were caught
up in a kind of media tsunami,
1178
01:02:56,480 --> 01:03:00,520
which was this phenomenon
of this TV series. Right?
1179
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:03,560
I mean, are there any reflections
you could make about that?
1180
01:03:03,560 --> 01:03:07,120
In every other case where we had
worked with documentary-makers,
1181
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:10,280
they were truthful and were trying
to do something for animals,
1182
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:13,360
so when they said they
wanted to expose the bad guys,
1183
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:15,160
we believed them.
1184
01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:19,520
In the days...or a couple of weeks
before the release,
1185
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:23,680
when I realised Don was going to be
a subject of the thing,
1186
01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:28,760
I asked Rebecca, "Well, how do you
think people are going to view
1187
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:32,560
"what you've done with Don?
How is it portrayed?"
1188
01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:36,280
And her answer was, "I think
they'll be scratching their heads."
1189
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:38,280
Well, nobody's scratching
their heads.
1190
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:41,560
Most people came away convinced
that Carole killed Don.
1191
01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:45,600
But, you know, in my view,
what they did wasn't just unethical,
1192
01:03:45,600 --> 01:03:47,760
it was outright cruel.
1193
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:52,520
RECORDING: You're a fuckin'
murderer, Carole.
1194
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:56,440
Ship out or we will shut you down.
1195
01:03:56,440 --> 01:03:59,240
RECORDING: I want you
to shove it up your fucking ass
1196
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:01,440
and go to jail
for killing your husband.
1197
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:04,080
I want to go to your house
and murder you.
1198
01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:05,920
RECORDING: Just getting started,
bitch.
1199
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:07,520
Just getting started.
1200
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:11,200
RECORDING: Fuck you, Carole Baskin.
1201
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:14,200
When I catch you, I'm going to put
a bullet between your fucking eyes.
1202
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:16,880
RECORDING: I hope you fucking die...
How much of this do we need?
1203
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:18,320
..you fucking filthy bitch.
1204
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:20,160
I think maybe we've got enough.
1205
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:24,040
I mean, you get the idea
from that couple of minutes.
1206
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:26,680
When we got through watching
Tiger King,
1207
01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:30,480
my phone rang every two minutes
for the next three months,
1208
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:34,520
around the clock, and it was people
screaming obscenities
1209
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:37,680
and death threats
and all kinds of things.
1210
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:47,480
Of the various protagonists
in the Tiger King drama,
1211
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:50,800
the ones I knew least about
were its directors,
1212
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:53,480
Eric Goode and Rebecca Chaiklin.
1213
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:56,920
We wanted to do a piece that looked
at the efficacy
1214
01:04:56,920 --> 01:05:00,320
of keeping wild animals in cages.
We never...
1215
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:03,200
Interviewed from their homes
for a YouTube show,
1216
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:06,720
they gave an insight into their
approach when making the series.
1217
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:10,720
You know, we were always
very honest about our intentions,
1218
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:13,640
and, of course, who would
have guessed that the story
1219
01:05:13,640 --> 01:05:16,400
would have, you know,
gone where it had gone?
1220
01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:18,000
It took a life of its own.
1221
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:21,680
So, the closest that Eric Goode
and Rebecca Chaiklin have come
1222
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:25,480
to addressing any of the questions
around Tiger King
1223
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:29,080
comes in this article
in Hollywood Reporter.
1224
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:31,920
Eric Goode says, "We knew
we didn't want to make a film
1225
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:34,680
"that was strictly advocacy,
and that was depressing.
1226
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:36,200
"I think the most important thing
1227
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:38,200
"is that we wanted people
to see this series."
1228
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:41,120
"Slate ran an opinion piece
which argued that you gave
1229
01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:43,840
"Carole the 'villain edit'
1230
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:47,680
"while being more sympathetic
to the male figures in Tiger King,
1231
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:51,960
"that essentially the series had a
misogynistic take on its subjects.
1232
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:53,600
"How do you respond to that?"
1233
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:56,000
Chaiklin:
"It's categorically untrue.
1234
01:05:57,080 --> 01:06:01,720
"I think what we did was we allowed
people to speak for themselves
1235
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:05,680
"and, unfortunately, the court of
public opinion is not always kind."
1236
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:13,000
In the background to the debate
around Tiger King
1237
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:16,320
was the latest twist
that its follow-up was being made
1238
01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:20,200
with its star now world famous
but behind bars.
1239
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:23,200
As part of their
legal correspondence with me,
1240
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:25,600
the lawyers for
the Tiger King producers
1241
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:28,720
had sent a copy of the contract
they've drawn up with Joe.
1242
01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:30,840
"Two cases have been redacted
1243
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:34,440
"to remove access to confidential
financial terms.
1244
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:38,280
"Owners shall be entitled to
receive..." Redacted.
1245
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:41,800
"Owner's services..." That's Joe.
1246
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:46,000
"..all of which shall be a work
made for hire for producer..."
1247
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:49,240
That's Eric Goode and co.
1248
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:54,800
Now, what is this?
So, that's an excerpt from a letter
1249
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:58,440
from a legal team retained
by the Tiger King production.
1250
01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:01,440
They refer to him as more or less
an employee,
1251
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:04,880
or that they're retaining
his services for hire.
1252
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:07,920
Do you know how much Joe's
making on all of this?
1253
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:09,760
I have an idea.
1254
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:12,160
I'm not at liberty to disclose it.
Six figures?
1255
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:13,840
Seven figures? I can't. I can't.
1256
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:15,840
I can't disclose
anything related to that.
1257
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:17,760
In theory, it could be more
than a million?
1258
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:21,160
I... I-I-I can't even...
I can't comment.
1259
01:07:21,160 --> 01:07:24,800
I can't comment whether even higher
or lower, or even warm. I cannot.
1260
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:27,480
Would it be unethical to receive
that money?
1261
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:33,320
To receive money from him signing
the rights to his story?
1262
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:36,560
No. Why would it be unethical?
1263
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:38,640
You know, they're securing
their footage.
1264
01:07:38,640 --> 01:07:40,280
They're securing the rights.
1265
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:42,240
You know, they got
a tiger by the tail.
1266
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:44,560
How do they control the tiger now,
1267
01:07:44,560 --> 01:07:48,440
except being overly aggressive
and trying to elbow everybody out?
1268
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:51,640
You have to. You'd be doing the
same thing, too, wouldn't you?
1269
01:07:51,640 --> 01:07:54,000
What's your biggest hit,
BBC's biggest hit?
1270
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:55,640
Do you mean drama or a documentary?
1271
01:07:55,640 --> 01:07:58,320
You know, I don't know.
Let's say drama. Either one.
1272
01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:00,320
I mean, Doctor Who? OK, Doctor Who.
1273
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:03,000
Somebody starts doing a documentary
or anything Doctor Who,
1274
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:05,360
are you going to try
to protect your rights?
1275
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:07,040
Yeah, but Joe's not Doctor Who.
1276
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:09,480
He's... Doctor Who's...
He might be bigger than Doctor Who.
1277
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:12,240
He might be, but he's not
a fictional character.
1278
01:08:12,240 --> 01:08:15,000
That's the bizarre nature of this,
1279
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:17,360
because when you first start
watching it,
1280
01:08:17,360 --> 01:08:19,920
you can't believe that
this is actually true.
1281
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:21,360
So, is it a documentary?
1282
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:23,880
Is it a docu-drama, is it fiction?
1283
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:26,480
Is it reality TV?
1284
01:08:26,480 --> 01:08:28,360
I think it's a mixture.
1285
01:08:33,440 --> 01:08:37,920
As vast and confusing as the Tiger
King phenomenon had now become,
1286
01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:39,960
it was also true that its producers
1287
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:43,400
were just the latest and biggest
of a long line of film-makers
1288
01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:47,040
who had passed through Joe's park,
amplifying his voice,
1289
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:48,640
of whom I had been one.
1290
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:51,240
OK. One to Zac.
1291
01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:53,920
All the big cats in lockdown?
1292
01:08:55,400 --> 01:08:59,680
Joe's life played out in public
in a series of media collaborations.
1293
01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:01,680
Get back!
1294
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:05,120
Ripping a day-old cub
from its mother for Korean TV...
1295
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:06,480
Hey, I got it. I got it.
1296
01:09:06,480 --> 01:09:10,920
..undercover footage shot
by an animal welfare group...
1297
01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:12,440
Sit down.
1298
01:09:12,440 --> 01:09:14,040
TIGER SNARLS
1299
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:17,640
..Joe showboating as he prepares
to shoot a sick horse
1300
01:09:17,640 --> 01:09:19,320
on camera in 2013.
1301
01:09:19,320 --> 01:09:21,440
I am perfectly sane,
1302
01:09:21,440 --> 01:09:23,200
but do not cross me.
1303
01:09:27,360 --> 01:09:28,480
GUNSHOT
1304
01:09:28,480 --> 01:09:33,800
This footage, which we have chosen
to obscure, Joe ran unedited.
1305
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:37,840
Watching it all back, there appears
to be a growing indifference
1306
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:40,240
to the suffering of animals,
1307
01:09:40,240 --> 01:09:44,280
but it's just as possible
that Joe was always Joe...
1308
01:09:44,280 --> 01:09:46,360
..just with more cameras around.
1309
01:09:57,320 --> 01:09:58,720
Oh, my word.
1310
01:10:00,160 --> 01:10:02,760
I wondered whether the wreckage
of Joe's house
1311
01:10:02,760 --> 01:10:05,080
might contain clues
to his life and story.
1312
01:10:09,040 --> 01:10:10,960
A mausoleum of Joe's dreams,
1313
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:14,200
it contained documents
and newspaper cuttings
1314
01:10:14,200 --> 01:10:16,880
stretching back to the
earliest years of his life...
1315
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:23,000
..his brief stint as a police chief
of Eastvale, Texas...
1316
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:27,640
..of our wedding...
1317
01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:31,960
..first marriage to a man named
Brian Rhyne, who had died...
1318
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:39,200
..mementos of his brother
and business partner, Garold Wayne,
1319
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:41,800
who was killed at 36
after a car crash
1320
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:44,680
and in whose memory
the park was founded.
1321
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:59,280
If Tiger King is the most widely
known version of Joe's life story,
1322
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:02,680
a more intimate account emerges
in a handwritten letter
1323
01:11:02,680 --> 01:11:04,960
sent by Joe from prison
to a journalist
1324
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:07,800
and passed on to me
by his lawyer, Francisco.
1325
01:11:10,280 --> 01:11:13,320
In it, he attempts to reclaim
his family history.
1326
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:18,560
June 5th 2020.
1327
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:20,200
So, he's in jail -
1328
01:11:20,200 --> 01:11:23,640
and right at the top,
the first sentence...
1329
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:26,520
"While growing up with my family,
I spent most of my childhood
1330
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:28,560
"on a farm in Garden City, Kansas.
1331
01:11:28,560 --> 01:11:31,040
"To watch your dad, mum,
oldest brother
1332
01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:34,120
"fist-fighting and hitting
each other with chairs.
1333
01:11:34,120 --> 01:11:36,240
"Growing up,
Dad was a very mean man,
1334
01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:39,080
"and anything that went wrong
was your fault.
1335
01:11:40,520 --> 01:11:43,360
"Now, I ain't saying
I never done nothing wrong,
1336
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:45,520
"but the physical and mental abuse
1337
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:48,240
"was something that I carry
with me to this day."
1338
01:11:48,240 --> 01:11:49,440
They moved to Wyoming.
1339
01:11:49,440 --> 01:11:51,480
"Me and Garold spent most
of our teenage years
1340
01:11:51,480 --> 01:11:53,120
"riding horses in the mountains.
1341
01:11:53,120 --> 01:11:56,160
"That's where my love
for weird animals came in."
1342
01:11:56,160 --> 01:11:59,000
They moved down to Texas.
Dad was raising race horses.
1343
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:00,760
Garold got married.
1344
01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:04,160
Then he moves to Arlington, Texas.
"Me and Garold went into business
1345
01:12:04,160 --> 01:12:06,520
"and I met and married Brian Rhyne."
1346
01:12:06,520 --> 01:12:10,560
Then...Garold has a car crash.
1347
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:13,040
"My brother was my hero.
1348
01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:15,440
"When we had the pet store,
people gave me a hard time,
1349
01:12:15,440 --> 01:12:18,800
"so he painted the pole of the sign
the colour of the gay flag
1350
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:21,200
"and said, 'Fuck 'em.
You're my brother,
1351
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:24,000
" 'and if they don't like it,
they can deal with me.'
1352
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:27,040
"Not very many memories worth
keeping as a child,
1353
01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:31,920
"because most are horrible
but ingrained in my memory for ever,
1354
01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:34,560
"like being molested
by my oldest brother
1355
01:12:34,560 --> 01:12:38,600
"at about five years old in the
bathroom of our old farmhouse."
1356
01:12:50,480 --> 01:12:53,080
Joe's relationships
with his two brothers
1357
01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:55,480
lies at the heart
of his personal story.
1358
01:12:56,680 --> 01:12:59,760
It was after the beloved
Garold's car crash
1359
01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:04,200
that his parents had received
a $250,000 insurance pay-out,
1360
01:13:04,200 --> 01:13:07,520
giving the money to Joe
to buy the land for his zoo.
1361
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:12,120
Yari is Joe's estranged
oldest brother.
1362
01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:16,760
He has stayed far away from anything
to do with Joe's park
1363
01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:18,840
or the Tiger King phenomenon.
1364
01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:26,240
He lives with his wife Wendy
in a remote corner of Texas
1365
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:28,440
close to the Louisiana border.
1366
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:33,880
They've never spoken about Joe
on TV before,
1367
01:13:33,880 --> 01:13:36,120
but they had agreed to meet.
1368
01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:39,120
BIRDS HONK
1369
01:13:53,160 --> 01:13:54,360
Did I?
1370
01:13:54,360 --> 01:13:55,480
How are you doing?
1371
01:13:55,480 --> 01:13:56,640
WOMAN: I'm OK. How are you?
1372
01:13:56,640 --> 01:13:58,480
Good.
How do you pronounce your name?
1373
01:13:58,480 --> 01:14:00,120
You want the first name
or the last name?
1374
01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:01,320
Why don't we do both?
1375
01:14:01,320 --> 01:14:05,240
I'm Yari. Yari. Yari Schreibvogel.
1376
01:14:05,240 --> 01:14:07,200
Unfortunately.
1377
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:09,640
That's an embarrassing name
right now.
1378
01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:11,040
HE CHUCKLES
1379
01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:13,280
Shall we go in? What do you think?
We can go in.
1380
01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:15,240
Oh, it's nice in here.
1381
01:14:15,240 --> 01:14:16,960
Is that Joe?
1382
01:14:16,960 --> 01:14:18,560
That's Garold. That's Garold!
1383
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:19,720
And that's you. Yeah.
1384
01:14:21,160 --> 01:14:23,200
That's you - that's Joe.
1385
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:24,440
No, that's Garold.
1386
01:14:24,440 --> 01:14:26,280
There's no pictures of Joe in here.
1387
01:14:26,280 --> 01:14:29,760
Oh, really? They're burnt.
I got rid of them all.
1388
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:32,400
So, that's your little area
for Garold.
1389
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:34,160
Yeah. You were really close.
1390
01:14:34,160 --> 01:14:36,920
That's just what I had left of him.
1391
01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:39,080
How about you ask me
what you want to know,
1392
01:14:39,080 --> 01:14:40,680
and I'll tell you what I know?
1393
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:42,280
Why don't we start at the beginning?
1394
01:14:42,280 --> 01:14:45,960
So, you are Joe's oldest brother.
1395
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:47,360
Oldest brother.
1396
01:14:47,360 --> 01:14:49,520
But he comes through that gate,
I'm planting him.
1397
01:14:49,520 --> 01:14:51,360
What is that in plain English?
1398
01:14:51,360 --> 01:14:54,440
That means taking the pair of you
in the woods.
1399
01:14:55,920 --> 01:14:57,560
You mean if Joe came
on this property?
1400
01:14:57,560 --> 01:14:59,240
I hate that little son of a bitch.
1401
01:14:59,240 --> 01:15:01,200
Do you? Yes.
1402
01:15:01,200 --> 01:15:03,320
It was a tough upbringing.
1403
01:15:03,320 --> 01:15:06,880
Your parents were quite hard,
from what I hear. Yeah.
1404
01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:10,040
He said that if you misbehaved, you
have to kneel with your arms out...
1405
01:15:10,040 --> 01:15:12,360
With your arms out like that.
Like that? Yes.
1406
01:15:12,360 --> 01:15:15,640
On concrete.
On concrete. Stress positions.
1407
01:15:15,640 --> 01:15:18,720
And if your arms dipped,
you were hit with...a slat? Yeah.
1408
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:20,680
I guess that's the way my dad
got brought up,
1409
01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:22,320
so that's the way we got brought up.
1410
01:15:22,320 --> 01:15:24,120
Was there love? I guess.
1411
01:15:24,120 --> 01:15:25,320
HE CHUCKLES
1412
01:15:25,320 --> 01:15:28,240
I gave his mom a hug one time.
Told her I loved her -
1413
01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:31,080
but she didn't know what to do.
But that ain't what made Joe Joe.
1414
01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:33,280
Greed make Joe what Joe is.
1415
01:15:34,440 --> 01:15:37,920
Have you read much of the coverage
of what Joe's upbringing was like,
1416
01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:39,760
how he's described his childhood?
1417
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:42,200
Actually, I ain't even seen
any of the shows or nothing.
1418
01:15:42,200 --> 01:15:43,880
Or articles? No. No.
1419
01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:46,800
So, one of the things he said
is that he was sexually assaulted
1420
01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:49,240
when he was five. Oh, he made that
up. Oh, here we go again.
1421
01:15:49,240 --> 01:15:51,760
We didn't even know
where kids came from
1422
01:15:51,760 --> 01:15:54,240
till we were in high school.
Someone in his home, he said.
1423
01:15:54,240 --> 01:15:56,840
First he said it was Dad,
1424
01:15:56,840 --> 01:16:00,120
then he blamed Yari. He's a liar.
1425
01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:04,800
And then he blamed some other person
that we don't know who.
1426
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:09,640
It's just another deal to
make everybody feel sorry for Joe.
1427
01:16:11,280 --> 01:16:14,360
Let's see, if he was five,
I would have been ten.
1428
01:16:14,360 --> 01:16:17,160
I mean, you don't even know
that kind of stuff
1429
01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:20,200
when you're living in the country
at ten years old.
1430
01:16:21,720 --> 01:16:24,480
So, you were estranged
from your parents, right?
1431
01:16:24,480 --> 01:16:25,920
Where did that come from?
1432
01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:28,080
How far back...?
I hadn't talked to my mom...
1433
01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:31,600
When she died, I hadn't talked to
her in five or six years. Yeah.
1434
01:16:31,600 --> 01:16:35,680
Joe used Garold's death
to get what he wanted.
1435
01:16:35,680 --> 01:16:41,080
Joe told his mom, "Well, Garold
wanted to open up an exotic park,"
1436
01:16:41,080 --> 01:16:42,960
which is bull.
1437
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:44,640
Joe convinced your parents
1438
01:16:44,640 --> 01:16:47,160
that the best way of honouring
Garold's memory...? Yeah.
1439
01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:49,440
See, we were going to build
a soccer field.
1440
01:16:49,440 --> 01:16:53,160
He was the coach of one of the boys'
teams and they played soccer.
1441
01:16:53,160 --> 01:16:55,360
I mean, they played sports.
1442
01:16:55,360 --> 01:16:59,400
And so we all decided that that
would be a really good thing to do,
1443
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:02,040
but then the next thing we know,
1444
01:17:02,040 --> 01:17:04,120
Joe's got this dang park,
1445
01:17:04,120 --> 01:17:07,360
and the soccer field
is thrown out the window.
1446
01:17:08,600 --> 01:17:14,280
So, Joe was able to manipulate Mom
and Dad...after Garold passed away.
1447
01:17:14,280 --> 01:17:16,480
He was really good
at manipulating them.
1448
01:17:16,480 --> 01:17:18,120
Really good.
1449
01:17:18,120 --> 01:17:19,720
He said this a few times,
1450
01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:22,880
he was the one who turned
off the life-support machine.
1451
01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:25,440
Oh, bullshit! Yeah, I don't think
he done that either.
1452
01:17:25,440 --> 01:17:27,880
I think that's all bullshit, too,
1453
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:31,960
because it's actually...
Garold was married to Lois.
1454
01:17:31,960 --> 01:17:35,600
His wife. Actually, she's the one
that has to sign the paperwork,
1455
01:17:35,600 --> 01:17:38,560
you know, and then he comes
in with these psychics
1456
01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:41,640
and they were just doing stuff
with their hands over his body.
1457
01:17:41,640 --> 01:17:43,720
Of course, my parents,
they're vulnerable,
1458
01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:44,960
so they believed it.
1459
01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:47,560
They were grabbing at everything
they could grab at,
1460
01:17:47,560 --> 01:17:49,000
and Joe had them believing
1461
01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:51,400
that them two girls was going
to make him better.
1462
01:17:51,400 --> 01:17:55,560
Joe told his mom and dad that the
psychics could not heal Garold
1463
01:17:55,560 --> 01:17:57,920
because of Yari and his bad vibes.
1464
01:17:57,920 --> 01:18:00,160
So they told him he had to leave
the hospital,
1465
01:18:00,160 --> 01:18:04,680
so he wasn't even allowed to be with
his brother when he passed away.
1466
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:09,320
And if that's not something
to show the real Joe,
1467
01:18:09,320 --> 01:18:12,760
I don't know what is. No.
1468
01:18:12,760 --> 01:18:16,960
He done some ugly stuff
to get what he wanted.
1469
01:18:20,480 --> 01:18:23,280
How do you explain
the fact of his appeal?
1470
01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:25,760
He's a damn... Like a cult leader.
1471
01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:28,080
He can make you believe anything.
1472
01:18:28,080 --> 01:18:31,640
He said that one time, when we all
wouldn't back him up on that park,
1473
01:18:31,640 --> 01:18:35,320
that if he ever went down, he was
going to take everybody with him.
1474
01:18:36,560 --> 01:18:40,840
A narcissist. I mean, he fits
the category to a T.
1475
01:18:40,840 --> 01:18:43,640
They can say something to you and
then ten minutes later,
1476
01:18:43,640 --> 01:18:45,880
"What are you talking about?
I never said that."
1477
01:18:45,880 --> 01:18:48,520
And you're like, "Yes. You..."
And then they make you think
1478
01:18:48,520 --> 01:18:50,360
that you're just dreaming
that they said it.
1479
01:18:50,360 --> 01:18:52,760
It's not really that he had
a control over you,
1480
01:18:52,760 --> 01:18:56,240
but it was more like a mind game
that he played with people.
1481
01:18:57,440 --> 01:19:01,120
Maybe we should talk
a little bit about GW, as well.
1482
01:19:01,120 --> 01:19:04,360
OK. You were brothers,
but also good friends.
1483
01:19:04,360 --> 01:19:06,800
He was probably my best friend.
1484
01:19:06,800 --> 01:19:09,000
Died at the age of 32.
1485
01:19:09,000 --> 01:19:13,880
But I made my brother a promise
that we would do this in his memory.
1486
01:19:13,880 --> 01:19:18,360
So I can't stop...or I'm a failure.
1487
01:19:18,360 --> 01:19:20,200
And I'm not a failure.
1488
01:19:20,200 --> 01:19:23,240
Are you getting sad,
thinking about your brother?
1489
01:19:23,240 --> 01:19:27,520
I get chills every time
I think about my brother.
1490
01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:29,120
But my brother's here.
1491
01:19:29,120 --> 01:19:30,720
He watches out over us.
1492
01:19:33,280 --> 01:19:35,440
When I look back at this
footage now,
1493
01:19:35,440 --> 01:19:38,120
even with everything I've learned,
1494
01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:41,520
Joe's emotion still strikes me
as sincere,
1495
01:19:41,520 --> 01:19:45,400
and it may be that his apparent
belief in his own myths
1496
01:19:45,400 --> 01:19:48,000
helps to explain Joe's power
to persuade others.
1497
01:19:49,240 --> 01:19:52,480
If I ever went broke...
1498
01:19:52,480 --> 01:19:55,120
..I think I would euthanise
everything
1499
01:19:55,120 --> 01:19:57,680
rather than put them
in another facility
1500
01:19:57,680 --> 01:20:00,200
with the same financial stress.
1501
01:20:00,200 --> 01:20:02,040
Do you really mean that?
1502
01:20:02,040 --> 01:20:03,400
Yeah.
1503
01:20:03,400 --> 01:20:06,000
1,400 animals? Yeah.
1504
01:20:08,320 --> 01:20:11,200
I don't think you're being serious.
1505
01:20:11,200 --> 01:20:13,240
I don't think you know me very well.
1506
01:20:15,800 --> 01:20:17,960
That's kind of a Jim Jones.
1507
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:19,920
If I go out,
1508
01:20:19,920 --> 01:20:24,360
I'm going to go out blaming
the people that caused us to go out.
1509
01:20:30,760 --> 01:20:32,320
Do you think... I was thinking...
1510
01:20:33,400 --> 01:20:36,360
My last encounter with Joe
came on the final day
1511
01:20:36,360 --> 01:20:38,680
of our third filming trip
at the park.
1512
01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:41,440
By now, he'd grown tired
of my questioning
1513
01:20:41,440 --> 01:20:44,000
and had been avoiding me
for several days.
1514
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:46,880
In re-watching the unaired material,
1515
01:20:46,880 --> 01:20:49,400
I noticed a strange tension
and nervousness
1516
01:20:49,400 --> 01:20:51,600
in how I behaved at the time.
1517
01:20:51,600 --> 01:20:54,040
OK, clock's running, guys.
It's hot out here.
1518
01:20:55,320 --> 01:20:57,280
I'm not honestly sure
and I don't want...
1519
01:20:57,280 --> 01:20:59,280
I'm not honestly sure
that you're correct
1520
01:20:59,280 --> 01:21:02,120
about the wild completely
disappearing.
1521
01:21:02,120 --> 01:21:04,800
I mean, it may be that
through the efforts
1522
01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:07,800
of environmental groups,
these habitats...
1523
01:21:07,800 --> 01:21:12,520
I mean, they do still exist, and
they could be saved. Very little.
1524
01:21:12,520 --> 01:21:16,000
In the last three years,
we went from 5,000 tigers
1525
01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:18,240
to 3,000 tigers.
1526
01:21:18,240 --> 01:21:20,440
Where do you see "saved"
out of that?
1527
01:21:23,920 --> 01:21:25,680
Are you OK?
1528
01:21:25,680 --> 01:21:27,560
What are you getting upset about?
1529
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:32,120
You're.. Every question
in the last day-and-a-half
1530
01:21:32,120 --> 01:21:35,200
has been back to animal rights
bullshit.
1531
01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:40,280
It's nothing to do
with the GW Exotic Animal Park.
1532
01:21:40,280 --> 01:21:43,760
We are breeding animals.
Do I feel comfortable with it?
1533
01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:45,640
Fuck, yes, I do.
1534
01:21:45,640 --> 01:21:47,680
Are my animals happy?
1535
01:21:47,680 --> 01:21:49,760
Hell, yes, they are.
1536
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:51,280
End of story.
1537
01:21:54,360 --> 01:21:55,760
Good enough?
1538
01:21:55,760 --> 01:21:56,840
That was great.
1539
01:21:59,600 --> 01:22:02,560
So...I'm done.
1540
01:22:08,360 --> 01:22:12,320
My animals are happy,
I love them all.
1541
01:22:13,440 --> 01:22:16,240
I don't make shit off of them.
1542
01:22:16,240 --> 01:22:20,440
Actually, I paid $120,000
last year to be here.
1543
01:22:20,440 --> 01:22:22,160
So...
1544
01:22:22,160 --> 01:22:25,360
You, PETA, Tippi Hedren,
Carole Baskin,
1545
01:22:25,360 --> 01:22:29,640
the Humane Society of the United
States, can all go fuck yourselves.
1546
01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:32,960
Good enough?
1547
01:22:35,400 --> 01:22:37,080
Can we talk about this? Huh?
1548
01:22:37,080 --> 01:22:39,040
Not on camera. I'm done.
1549
01:22:43,720 --> 01:22:45,360
Anything else, Gavin?
1550
01:22:47,360 --> 01:22:49,200
Talk to me, Joe.
1551
01:22:49,200 --> 01:22:52,240
You know, the fact that these
questions are getting asked,
1552
01:22:52,240 --> 01:22:54,360
it doesn't mean... It just means
that they get aired.
1553
01:22:54,360 --> 01:22:56,360
You wouldn't ask them on camera
1554
01:22:56,360 --> 01:22:58,960
if they didn't have the intention
of putting them on air.
1555
01:23:03,680 --> 01:23:07,240
Can we be buds again?
We can be, you know?
1556
01:23:07,240 --> 01:23:09,560
If you're going to do an animal
rights story,
1557
01:23:09,560 --> 01:23:11,160
do an animal rights story.
1558
01:23:11,160 --> 01:23:12,800
Don't come in and pretend
1559
01:23:12,800 --> 01:23:15,200
to do a "we care about
the GW Animal Park"
1560
01:23:15,200 --> 01:23:17,600
and then turn that around
and put me on TV
1561
01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:21,320
asking me about, "Do my animals
really like being in cages?"
1562
01:23:22,320 --> 01:23:23,760
Isn't that all part of it?
1563
01:23:23,760 --> 01:23:26,200
No, it's not. Isn't that...
That's a part of the whole thing.
1564
01:23:26,200 --> 01:23:29,440
It has nothing to do with GW,
or why we're here.
1565
01:23:31,720 --> 01:23:33,720
Providing the animals
with a good life.
1566
01:23:33,720 --> 01:23:37,320
Yeah, but, you know,
how many of your questions
1567
01:23:37,320 --> 01:23:40,040
have went from providing animals
a good life,
1568
01:23:40,040 --> 01:23:43,240
to do I feel guilty about breeding
more animals
1569
01:23:43,240 --> 01:23:46,680
and putting them in cages
for the rest of their life?
1570
01:23:47,840 --> 01:23:49,320
I think we got it. Got it?!
1571
01:23:49,320 --> 01:23:50,640
Can I have a hug?
1572
01:23:50,640 --> 01:23:52,160
You can have a hug!
1573
01:23:53,200 --> 01:23:58,480
You know, and I don't even care
about the questions you ask,
1574
01:23:58,480 --> 01:24:02,360
but don't edit it down, you know?
1575
01:24:03,360 --> 01:24:05,240
"Can I have a hug?"
1576
01:24:05,240 --> 01:24:06,800
I don't often do that.
1577
01:24:06,800 --> 01:24:08,280
It's quite weird.
1578
01:24:10,880 --> 01:24:12,760
I think I was like...
1579
01:24:12,760 --> 01:24:16,960
I felt like there was a part of me
that liked him
1580
01:24:16,960 --> 01:24:22,720
and was inclined to need to feel
reassured that he was OK.
1581
01:24:22,720 --> 01:24:24,600
Does that make sense?
1582
01:24:25,680 --> 01:24:29,440
Before they run me out of business,
I'll guarantee you these animals
1583
01:24:29,440 --> 01:24:32,720
aren't going to be
the only thing euthanised.
1584
01:24:32,720 --> 01:24:34,240
Yeah!
1585
01:24:34,240 --> 01:24:36,040
You got that on camera.
1586
01:24:36,040 --> 01:24:39,440
This is still America.
We're still allowed to bear arms.
1587
01:24:39,440 --> 01:24:41,800
By God, I ain't scared easy.
1588
01:24:41,800 --> 01:24:45,200
Anybody that come in here
want to disrupt...
1589
01:24:46,640 --> 01:24:49,280
..what's going on here - you betcha.
1590
01:24:49,280 --> 01:24:51,520
I don't think you really want
to put that out there.
1591
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:52,920
I don't really care.
1592
01:24:52,920 --> 01:24:54,880
HE LAUGHS
1593
01:24:54,880 --> 01:24:56,000
Clear enough?
1594
01:24:59,440 --> 01:25:03,200
I don't really know what conclusion
you draw from that.
1595
01:25:03,200 --> 01:25:04,400
I mean...
1596
01:25:06,640 --> 01:25:09,800
Except that part of his MO was...
1597
01:25:11,200 --> 01:25:12,600
It's not even an MO.
1598
01:25:12,600 --> 01:25:16,320
Part of his ability to influence
people and to recruit people
1599
01:25:16,320 --> 01:25:19,520
was through his own
unpredictability,
1600
01:25:19,520 --> 01:25:24,600
but more than that,
a kind of fragility
1601
01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:28,360
that meant that if you were
in his orbit,
1602
01:25:28,360 --> 01:25:31,760
you were constantly tiptoeing around
1603
01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:36,360
and attempting to placate him
or, in different ways,
1604
01:25:36,360 --> 01:25:38,200
keep him together.
1605
01:25:38,200 --> 01:25:40,000
And all the stuff where he's like,
1606
01:25:40,000 --> 01:25:42,640
"I'm going to euthanise
more than just the animals,"
1607
01:25:42,640 --> 01:25:44,520
and, "I'm going to euthanise
my animals
1608
01:25:44,520 --> 01:25:47,560
"because I'm not going to let
anyone else do it," and...
1609
01:25:47,560 --> 01:25:50,240
I mean, we've heard it quite a bit
while we've been out here,
1610
01:25:50,240 --> 01:25:54,880
but that's a cult-like... It's quite
explicitly a cult-like attitude.
1611
01:25:56,120 --> 01:25:58,760
But it is odd to see...
1612
01:25:58,760 --> 01:26:04,080
...how much I seemed to...
kind of somewhat like him.
1613
01:26:08,680 --> 01:26:10,320
Towards the end of Trump's term,
1614
01:26:10,320 --> 01:26:13,280
the idea that Joe might receive
a pardon from the President
1615
01:26:13,280 --> 01:26:16,560
became something like
an international obsession.
1616
01:26:18,440 --> 01:26:21,080
On Trump's last day,
a limo was on standby
1617
01:26:21,080 --> 01:26:24,120
to whisk Joe away
when his pardon came through.
1618
01:26:25,120 --> 01:26:26,960
It never came.
1619
01:26:29,200 --> 01:26:31,320
Joe's failure to secure his release
1620
01:26:31,320 --> 01:26:34,080
led to a fresh round of trolling
of Carole Baskin.
1621
01:26:37,920 --> 01:26:39,400
From inside his prison cell,
1622
01:26:39,400 --> 01:26:41,800
Joe was showing signs
of disillusionment
1623
01:26:41,800 --> 01:26:44,160
with the people who'd done
so much for his fame -
1624
01:26:44,160 --> 01:26:45,640
the Tiger King producers -
1625
01:26:45,640 --> 01:26:48,920
complaining that his contracts
were preventing him
1626
01:26:48,920 --> 01:26:51,320
from telling his story
and being freed.
1627
01:27:00,080 --> 01:27:03,320
Joe's sentence of 22 years is,
by coincidence,
1628
01:27:03,320 --> 01:27:06,760
around the life expectancy
of a tiger in a cage...
1629
01:27:08,680 --> 01:27:12,480
..but, in being confined, Joe
appears to have secured his legacy
1630
01:27:12,480 --> 01:27:14,800
in a way he might
never have imagined.
1631
01:27:19,600 --> 01:27:24,040
The young man who dreamed of fame
has been transfigured by captivity
1632
01:27:24,040 --> 01:27:28,040
and now, on streaming platforms
and social media,
1633
01:27:28,040 --> 01:27:30,120
he travels the digital ether.
1634
01:27:34,000 --> 01:27:37,760
As for his surviving animals,
they, too, are confined -
1635
01:27:37,760 --> 01:27:41,160
at sanctuaries and roadside zoos
around the US,
1636
01:27:41,160 --> 01:27:44,280
utterly oblivious to
their new-found fame.
133367
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