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crowd cheering]
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Downloaded from
YTS.MX
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Please welcome The Dream Syndicate.
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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
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[rock music]
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People are going to see
Journey and Ozzy Osbourne
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in the school I was in.
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And they're like; what
are you listening to?
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I'm like, Dream Syndicate.
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They’re like, I don't know what that is.
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And I was like, thank God, you know.
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It was this crazy mix of
melody and noise and poetry
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[rock music]
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and just reckless abandon.
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The combination was such that
no one was doing it in that way.
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They kind of created their own soundscape
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and they created their own time and place.
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Ultimately, The Dream Syndicate were
always cool, because they were outside
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the other shit that was happening.
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It's just complete chaos.
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Steve's going to that place where
guitars kill people, and I just loved that.
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Like, he could be so ferocious.
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It was fantastic.
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It was like dark, moody,
psychedelic, jammy,
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lots of feedback.
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We were all so tired of this nervous,
hyper formulated music that was going on.
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We just wanted to get
lost in sound and repetition.
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I got that vibe,
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that kind of Velvet Underground
meets Bob Dylan kind of vibe.
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I was right there with
that band right off the
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bat, and it all happened
within six months.
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The Dream Syndicate paid no dues.
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It happened so fast.
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They were just poised to go,
you know, straight to the moon.
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I can't believe how good this music is.
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I loved it so much. I
thought people are going
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to just freak out when they hear this.
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And they did. I mean, the
club asked us back right away
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as soon as the show was over.
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From the time Dennis came to the rehearsal,
to the time we made the record, to time
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we were on stage playing our first
show at a groovy club to 300 people.
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All this happened in three, three
and a half weeks. It was insane.
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It was tight. It was the
toughest ticket in town that night.
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We played the show and
people are lined around the block.
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It was kind of like the first taste I had,
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that something really big was happening.
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[rock music]
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It was the combination of
everything and then having Steve
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at the center of the storm that made it
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such a fantastic experience.
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We had gone in a short amount
of time from feeling like outsiders
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who had no chance of having anything
happen to being everyone's darling.
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I was born in 1960
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in Santa Monica, California,
and grew up in L.A..
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[soft music]
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I'm a native Los Angelino.
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My father and mother of
my first couple of years,
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they got divorced when I was
two, and I was raised by my mother
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from a lot of my youth.
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I've always had a love of
music. I don't know what it was.
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Maybe it's because it was the
sixties and it was a lot going on there.
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And, you know, I kind of
discovered music, some combination
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of my cousin bringing over
Elvis records and The Beatles.
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I had an older sister, Lindy,
the younger of my two sisters,
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and she liked going to concerts.
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And she knew I liked music, so she would
take me to shows with her all the time.
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And we saw so many great shows.
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We saw The Who and Led
Zeppelin twice and Queen.
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And my mother very kindly when I was,
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I guess eight, got me my first guitar
and I started taking lessons right away.
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Played in a lot of bands from the
time I was nine till I was thirteen.
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Different friends,
different kinds of music.
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My first favorite bands were
Creedence and The Who.
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[rock music]
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I would say those probably
if I had to say the two bands
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when I was that young, that really
did it for me. Those were the two.
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Bands I still listen to now.
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I remember being maybe ten years old
and walking around my neighborhood in L.A..
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A couple of blocks from where I lived,
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there was this house where a
band was playing in the garage.
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And to me these guys
were the biggest band ever.
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These guys are playing music together
with other musicians in their garage.
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Wow! Anything beyond that?
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The idea that I would play in a band
or would make records or go on tour
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or play in real clubs. Unfathomable.
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The mid-seventies were
so much all about gigantic
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bloated arena bands. That's
why punk rock happened.
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For a while I started
playing a little less guitar,
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doing other things. I
started writing sports.
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And if anything, I think my dream
at that time was to be a sportswriter.
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I thought it was a creative thing for
me, and I probably got some of the same
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pleasures from that.
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I got to travel around and
see what grown ups did.
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But when I went to UC Davis
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when I was 17 with the
idea of being a sportswriter,
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the timing was perfect
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to get back into music,
because it was 1977.
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It was the magic year when
everything changed in music.
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And, you know, I would
say punk rock saved my life.
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Discovering this music when I
was working at the radio station
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in Davis, KDVS. Having access to
all this music and learning about it
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minute by minute was the greatest thing.
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And I was on this radio station with
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Tom Gracyk. Tom Gracyk was our guru.
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I had been getting all the
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good punk records like Richard Hell
and Talking Heads and The Saints.
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And he was reviewing stuff like
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Peter Gabriel and Todd Rundgren.
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He was still kind of mainstream.
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And I was two years older, a year
and a half older than him. So I kind of
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pushed him, forced him a little
into music that he didn't know about.
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I was the music director, he
became the program director.
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And by then he knew
people like Kendra Smith,
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who was working in the Public
Affairs Department at the radio station.
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And Russ Tolman, who had been
program director there also at KDVS.
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In Davis, there were only fifty
people who cared about this stuff.
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Fifty people who wanted
to know about this music.
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And we all knew each other and
we all fed each other's excitement.
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I saw this Bruce Springsteen show
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in Los Angeles on the Darkness
on the Edge of Town tour.
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And it was just one of
those revelation moments.
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He was playing San Diego the
next night, and I had to see it again.
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And I knew Kendra was
on school break like I was.
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And it was one of those classic
things that happens all the time.
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We walked out of there
saying, let's form a band.
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She said, “I've done a little
singing, like in choir and, you know”.
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Alright, you're the singer.
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I'm not the singer. Holy cow.
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I've never sung in my life.
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And I knew Russ Tolman played
guitar, because we had played together.
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So there we are, Kendra, me and Russ.
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I'd really never been in a band before.
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It’s like you had to be a virtuoso player
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to actually be in a
band back in those days.
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00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:22,958
And so, you know, the new wave and
punk rock came along and kind of freed
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everyone from that. So Steve
was very keen on starting the band.
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I guess he had gone to
Kendra and said the same thing.
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Kendra Smith.
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00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:32,920
So we started this band called Suspects.
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Kendra was the girl,
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she also worked at college radio station.
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She started off in the news
department and she was that cute girl
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[rock music]
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in the news department.
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I think everyone had a crush on her.
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We put an ad in the
paper and we got two guys.
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We got a bass player named Steve Suchil
and we also got Gavin Blair, a drummer.
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With Suspects we actually
started getting a lot of gigs.
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We were playing quite a bit,
just because we were willing
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00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:20,398
to take any gig we were offered.
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We were like a classic two guitar
and bubbly female lead singer band.
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Actually, we were Davis's first new
wave band as what we were known as.
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I must have written a
hundred songs for Suspects.
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None.
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None of which I ever played after that.
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None have ever surfaced in any other band.
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00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,478
But I was writing like crazy. And
that's how I was learning to write songs.
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We made a single.
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It was called Talking Loud
and Walking Proud on the A-side
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and on the B-side was Up To You.
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At one point, Steve claimed he
was just going to buy them all up
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to destroy them, because he
was slightly embarrassed about it.
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But it wasn't a bad record at all.
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00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:02,558
I think Steve ended up with
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most of them in his
closet, but we did sell a few.
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As a record you could hold in
your hands and say, I did this.
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And it was a great feeling.
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[rock music]
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We played around for a little while longer
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and then we broke up.
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As all young bands do.
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I went back to L.A.,
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I was 20 years old and more obsessed
with music than anything else in my life.
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I was getting my education by day at
UCLA, but my real education was working
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in this record store and talking to people
about music and going to shows every
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night, if I could.
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I started playing in bands again.
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The bands I was playing with are
okay, they didn't excite me that much.
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I couldn't find anybody making
music that I was hearing in my head.
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00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,998
And I figured, you
know, I still love music,
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00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:10,441
but I don't want to be a musician anymore.
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I remember I had one thing on my mind
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and that was I wanted to make
a record that I could be proud of.
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00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:22,998
So I got a little home recording system,
185
00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:26,158
I saved up and got a little
four track reel to reel recorder
186
00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,760
and recorded just kind of jam
that I had built around four chords.
187
00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,038
That became That's What You Always Say.
188
00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,918
And I played everything
myself, and I just made up words.
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If you ever hear the version that
I put out then, it just gibberish.
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Just, you know, uh uh uh uh.
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The chorus was, “but
that's what you always say”.
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And the rest was just nonsense.
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And I called the band 15 Minutes,
because that was my 15 minutes,
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00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:57,438
my joke that this be the one record
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I make that is, you know, that is cool
196
00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:01,040
and now I'm going to quit.
197
00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:04,478
Around that time when I made that single,
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00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,758
I met these two sisters,
Kristi and Kelly Callan.
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00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,638
They would shop at the record
store where I worked and they said,
200
00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:12,158
“Hey, you know, I know you play guitar.
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00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,678
Do you want to get together
and jam sometime?” Yeah, sure.
202
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,518
So we've got together and played.
And I liked what they were doing.
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00:12:17,560 --> 00:12:18,518
They played these songs
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that had a million chords and would
speed up and slow down randomly.
205
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,318
And all I could think when
I heard these girls play was,
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00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:26,840
they remind me of The Shaggs.
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00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:34,598
These girls are the new Shaggs.
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00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:36,598
I got to play with them.
I was so excited about it.
209
00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:41,240
But we needed the bass player, so we
advertised in this Recycler newspaper
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00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,520
for a bass player to come play with us.
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00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:48,918
And this tall, skinny guy
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00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,360
with a pageboy haircut
shows up, that’s Karl Precoda.
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00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,838
He came in and played with us,
and after it was over, I walked him out
214
00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,478
back to his car and I said,
“So you know what you think?”
215
00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,400
He said, “They're
terrible, but I like you!”
216
00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:04,038
I like what you're doing.
217
00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:05,640
Okay, so we start playing together.
218
00:13:12,560 --> 00:13:14,398
He quickly changed from bass to guitar
219
00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:16,280
and we would just sit around
and jam in the basement.
220
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Everything just came alive.
221
00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:21,358
And the two of us
playing guitars and playing,
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00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:25,478
you know, an E chord for twenty
minutes in my father's basement.
223
00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:27,918
For some reason, this is
what I've been looking for.
224
00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,118
At that point, I was so excited about it.
225
00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:31,478
I got in touch with Kendra.
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00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:35,158
Kendra, after Suspects
broke up, started playing bass.
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00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,358
Bear in mind, she had
never played bass before.
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00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:39,998
She has picked up the bass
and started playing one note,
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00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:42,478
dum dum dum dum dum dum dum.
And that was all she wanted to do.
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00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,438
I'm sitting in the basement with
Karl going, dah dah dah dah dah dah.
231
00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,080
Playing one chord over and over again.
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00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,638
And that really was such a
refreshing thing to all of us.
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00:13:50,680 --> 00:13:53,278
I think we were all so tired of this
234
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,918
nervous, hyper formulated
music that was going on.
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We just wanted to play.
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00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:01,278
We just wanted to get
lost in sound and repetition.
237
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,838
You know, the obvious role model for that
kind of music was the Velvet Underground.
238
00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,798
And I would hear something like Sister Ray,
239
00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:10,800
seventeen minutes of two chords
and say, this is the greatest thing ever.
240
00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,918
At a certain point, we started thinking
we might be getting kind of good enough.
241
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,638
We could play a show someday. Who knows?
242
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:27,160
This is kind of, we like it.
243
00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:29,290
Kendra said: “I'm kind of friends
with Dennis Duck from Human Hands”.
244
00:14:29,330 --> 00:14:33,330
[rock music]
245
00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,438
One of our big fans,
246
00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,798
someone who used to
come see us all the time,
247
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,198
I remember seeing her backstage at
the Whisky several times, was Kendra.
248
00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,558
Dennis was a rock star. I saw
Dennis play the Whisky A Go Go.
249
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,638
But, Kendra seemed to think
he would come play with us.
250
00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:48,878
I said: “Sure, give it a chance”.
251
00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:53,918
My phone rang in Pasadena
on an incredibly stormy,
252
00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:57,680
rainy night, just pouring rain, lightning.
253
00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:03,158
I get this call and this guy
says: “Dennis, this is Steve Wynn.
254
00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:04,558
I'm a friend of Kendra's.
255
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,358
And she told me that you play drums.
256
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,680
And I was wondering if you
want to come rehearse with us.”
257
00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:14,958
And I just thought: oh, no, no, I
really I just don't want to do this.
258
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,678
And I'm sure I said no about a
hundred times, and he just persisted.
259
00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,078
He wouldn't take no for an
answer and convinced me to pack up
260
00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:23,958
all my drums in the car.
261
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,878
Dennis decided to drive across L.A.
262
00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,358
from Pasadena to Westwood, where I lived,
263
00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,558
an hour and a half in the rain
264
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,038
to play with us in the basement.
265
00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:38,038
Drove out there very reluctantly,
266
00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:42,718
set up my drums in their pool
house, which was the rehearsal space,
267
00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,878
and played through a bunch of songs.
268
00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:50,278
I think we played Suzie Q by
Creedence for about a half hour.
269
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,078
Maybe played That’s What You Always Say.
270
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:54,680
And maybe just jammed on
an E chord for another hour.
271
00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,878
He brought a boombox with him
and recorded the whole rehearsal.
272
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:07,318
And Dennis, as I learned
later on, doesn't always express
273
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:08,478
what's going on inside his head.
274
00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:09,616
He took off and didn't say anything.
Just: “Oh, okay, you know, good luck.”
275
00:16:09,656 --> 00:16:13,656
[rock music]
276
00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:17,718
Three days later, just out of good
manners, I called him on the phone
277
00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:20,718
and said: “Just want to say thanks
again for coming out and playing with us.
278
00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,400
We enjoyed playing with you.
Hey, did you listen to your tape?”
279
00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:26,918
He said: “That's all I've
listened to for the last four days.”
280
00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:28,238
This is the greatest thing.
281
00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:31,118
I can't believe how good this music is.
282
00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,638
I was utterly shocked.
283
00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:35,238
That is the greatest thing I've ever heard.
284
00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:36,838
I want to play with you guys.
285
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:37,480
Wow!
286
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:40,278
You got to be kidding,
I couldn't believe it.
287
00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:41,598
I thought I was joking with me.
288
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,480
Dennis was a damn near God.
289
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,478
We were just like: “Oh, you
know, that could never happen.
290
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,358
We're just not good enough for him!”
291
00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,358
It was so different than anything
else that was happening at the time.
292
00:16:54,400 --> 00:17:00,638
Because I was so into krautrock. I
was into Can, Amon Düül, Kraftwerk, Neu.
293
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:04,398
Just all these great for
European and German bands.
294
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:08,518
And I liked the simplicity
of those kind of trance beats.
295
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,998
And I kind of felt like I was
playing that kind of beat behind
296
00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,078
the more sort of
Creedence, Stones-ish guitars
297
00:17:16,120 --> 00:17:18,160
that Steve and Karl were playing.
298
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,478
I could see in Steve right away
299
00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:28,634
that he had a certain
special quality as a songwriter.
300
00:17:28,674 --> 00:17:32,674
[rock music]
301
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,398
That time in the next three
weeks, things happened very quickly.
302
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,918
We started playing more often
and we started writing songs.
303
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,720
Decided maybe we should try to play a show.
304
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,478
Decided the best way to get a show
305
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:50,200
would be to record our songs.
306
00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:53,318
Found a studio that Dennis knew.
307
00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:55,678
I had a friend in, actually,
308
00:17:55,720 --> 00:18:00,638
in Sierra Madre. This guy Tom, that
had a little home recording studio.
309
00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:05,118
He actually had his living room
set up as a recording studio.
310
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:10,238
And then the nursery for where his
baby was, was like the control room.
311
00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:12,038
So it was pretty primitive.
312
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:16,438
Dennis also said, I know a guy
313
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,478
who could engineer it. Paul
Cutler. Do you know him?
314
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,958
Paul Cutler? My God. Paul
Cutler played guitar in 45 Grave.
315
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:23,920
I love 45 Grave.
316
00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,158
I think Steve's total
317
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,120
bill for all of it was 200 dollars.
318
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,438
I think it was 100 dollars for
the studio and 100 dollars for me.
319
00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,958
We set up in this guy's living room
320
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,798
and recorded When You Smile,
321
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:48,998
Sure thing,
322
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:50,078
That's What You Always Say
323
00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:51,360
and Some Kinda Itch.
324
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,118
In the same first four weeks
325
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:12,438
got a gig at a great club,
326
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,958
a club called Club Lingerie, which
was the coolest club in L.A. at the time.
327
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,678
But we got that gig, because Dennis
had played there and knew the booker.
328
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:23,438
Human Hands in Los
Angeles were very popular.
329
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:24,798
They had put out a few records.
330
00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:29,038
They had a, you know,
strong but small cult following.
331
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,358
And so the first three or four shows,
332
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:33,318
everyone said: “Hey, let's
go see The Dreams Syndicate.
333
00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:34,958
That's Dennis Duck’s new band.”
334
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,358
All this happened in three,
three and a half weeks.
335
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:39,998
From the time Dennis came to the rehearsal,
336
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,078
to the time we were on
stage playing our first show
337
00:19:42,120 --> 00:19:45,560
at a groovy club to 300
people, all was that fast.
338
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,918
We opened with When You Smile and it just,
339
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,760
you know, the feedback was
going and it just sounded amazing.
340
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:08,118
I loved it so much.
341
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,478
I thought people are going to
just freak out when they hear this.
342
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:11,198
And they did.
343
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,718
I mean, the club asked us back right
away as soon as the show was over.
344
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,998
We listened to the tape
from that one day session.
345
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,998
And said, this is too good for a
demo tape. We should put this out.
346
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,838
He put that out on his
own label and it did great.
347
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:26,438
I was a fan right then and there.
348
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,518
First track on one was Sure Thing.
349
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:33,158
And I went: “Yes, this is a sure thing!”
350
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,398
It was propulsive.
351
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,040
The guitar work was
352
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:45,480
minimalist, but with a
real drive and intensity to it.
353
00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:02,038
We all had paid our dues,
whatever dues we have to pay.
354
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,318
I paid mine with Suspects and other bands.
355
00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:05,478
We all played in other bands.
356
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:10,278
We'd all played crappy
shows for five people or less.
357
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,278
But Dream Syndicate paid no dues.
358
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:13,718
It happened so fast.
359
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,638
I knew it was great... but I
think it took me a long time
360
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:22,438
to realize how unusual it was
for that to happen so easily,
361
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:29,598
which, to me, maybe means that
it was ready and meant to be, but...
362
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,718
just that we achieved
363
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:38,518
so many different things so
quickly in one band sonically.
364
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,238
And then, nobody else
was really doing that.
365
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:46,878
The guitar was a bit of a, you know,
366
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,878
embattled instrument at that point.
367
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:55,838
And the underground was definitely
368
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,638
reviving the use of the guitar.
369
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:00,118
Los Angeles is very funny.
370
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,838
There are bands that can kind of
come out of nowhere and within a gig
371
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,878
or two become like the next big thing.
372
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:08,798
And that's what happened
with The Dream Syndicate.
373
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,438
They were like, you know, they were stars.
374
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:15,318
They were, you know, or at least
they were the putty out of which,
375
00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:17,840
you know, the star making
machine can make stars.
376
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,838
And I drank a lot in the early
days of The Dream Syndicate.
377
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:30,092
And I say this not like it's some
kind of boast, like, weren't we wild?
378
00:22:30,132 --> 00:22:31,720
[rock music]
379
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,798
But it was the way I overcame my shyness,
380
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,398
my fear of being a
frontman and a lead singer
381
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:42,798
and also a way to, as Jim
Morrison said in L.A. years earlier
382
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,158
break on through to the other
side, which was so important to me.
383
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,400
I want people to walk away from a show
and say, I can't believe what I just saw.
384
00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:51,358
I don't know if I like it.
385
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,558
I don't necessarily
know if I love it or hate it.
386
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,600
But I've never seen anybody
do that before on stage.
387
00:23:01,901 --> 00:23:04,600
[rock music]
388
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:08,318
Steve, you know, his hair was
like all sticking up and he kind of
389
00:23:08,360 --> 00:23:12,518
like prowled around the stage and
was very provocative to the audience.
390
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,798
There was no pandering or making
it easy for people to like them.
391
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:17,878
You know what I mean?
392
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,800
And I like that. That
was really influential.
393
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:30,318
Karl was definitely a rock star to me.
394
00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:35,438
He was like this lanky guy
on on stage with this guitar,
395
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:41,198
you know, just digging into his guitar
and going nuts and getting the feedback.
396
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,638
Karl and Steve would just
go off. They were insane.
397
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,758
They would do the ten minute
jams or run around the stage.
398
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,638
Karl would jump up off his amplifiers.
399
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,558
He was really out there.
400
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:56,238
He was so flamboyant one with
the feedback and all the moves.
401
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,958
You know, the guitar hero moves.
402
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:00,118
He was always out of tune.
403
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,560
But like Albert King, he
would play it back into tune.
404
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,998
The first EP came out in April of 1982,
405
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,918
and by that time we were
playing a lot of shows.
406
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,718
Our fourth and fifth show
was opening for Wall of Voodoo,
407
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,198
you know, they became
very popular at the time.
408
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,878
We actually open for the Psychedelic
Furs in San Francisco and L.A.
409
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,758
Not too long after that, we
had interest from Slash records.
410
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:28,878
Slash was the hippest
label in L.A. at the time,
411
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:30,998
you just couldn't get groovier than that.
412
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,718
X were on that label and The
Blasters were on that label.
413
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,198
Sure, we were getting a lot of
attention. Sure, Slash was a big label.
414
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,158
Doesn't mean that they gave us
any kind of a budget to work with.
415
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,638
So we had very
416
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,278
minimal time to make the
record. Which was a good thing.
417
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:46,478
I love seeing them live.
418
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:51,398
I mean, I really, that's one of
the reasons I wanted to get them
419
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,238
as live as possible in the studio.
420
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,358
You know, aside from budget constraints.
421
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,518
We were told, you're going to record
422
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,718
at the studio called Quad Tech,
on these three nights back to back
423
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:03,678
from midnight to eight.
424
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,558
We set up, record all night long.
425
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,358
Starting at midnight.
426
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:09,078
Boom.
427
00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:13,558
Recording. Ending eight in the
morning. Finishing. Going to work.
428
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:18,598
I was still working, so I went off
and just drove to work from the studio.
429
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:20,998
And the next night going
in and doing overdubs,
430
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,198
which wasn't much. And
the third night mixing it.
431
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:24,198
And it was done.
432
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,398
I remember going back the last day
with the mixes into the record store,
433
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,278
into Rhino Records, and
playing it over the speakers
434
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,400
in the record store and
smiling, because we had done it.
435
00:26:01,322 --> 00:26:05,322
[rock music]
436
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,278
When Days of Wine and Roses came out,
437
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,198
I think it created a ripple.
438
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,318
You know, people paid attention to it.
439
00:26:44,360 --> 00:26:48,998
Days of Wine and Roses
was the one that really
440
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:50,678
blew me out of the water.
441
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:56,078
You know, longer songs, you know,
that kind of flow of conscious lyrics.
442
00:26:56,120 --> 00:27:00,598
And the desperation. You know.
443
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:01,998
I was right on that record.
444
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:06,558
I just thought it was one
of the most exciting and
445
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:13,918
compelling and also emotionally
446
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,678
forceful records I had
heard in a really long time.
447
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:22,958
It was noise, but it actually
had spirit and spirituality.
448
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,118
I didn't get it.
449
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,718
I honestly didn't think,
you know, I didn't get it.
450
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:32,838
But as you know, as time
went on, I kind of got it.
451
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,198
And Days of Wine and
Roses is an amazing record.
452
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,680
It’s one of my favorites
from the time period.
453
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,038
I guess it came out in October
and in January we went on tour
454
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:54,318
for the first time.
455
00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:57,198
We went out, hit the road.
And played all across the country.
456
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,078
Got in the van and drove everywhere.
We drove all the way across the
457
00:28:01,120 --> 00:28:03,838
the Midwest, the East
Coast, the South, all around.
458
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:05,038
We came to New York.
459
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,838
And as I would often do when I was
in L.A., I would get The Village Voice.
460
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,678
I opened it up and in the
center of the newspaper,
461
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,518
The Village Voice, in
the listings for the shows
462
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:20,798
was a two page centerfold of a
picture of The Dream Syndicate.
463
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:22,838
We played the show and
people are lined around the block.
464
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,758
It was the toughest
ticket in town that night.
465
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,798
And I remember having the
executives from Geffen Records and
466
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:31,318
all the other labels flew in.
467
00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:34,318
One of the greatest
shows that I’ve ever seen.
468
00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:38,638
And I actually did record it
on my portable cassette player.
469
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:39,878
It was that good.
470
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:45,478
I was willing to risk being thrown out to
have a souvenir of this show for myself.
471
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,718
It was kind of like the first taste I had,
472
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,360
that something really big was happening.
473
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:03,558
About a week after we came home,
474
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,560
Kendra called me up and
said: “I need to talk to you.”
475
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,158
We got together and she
said: “I'm going to quit the band.
476
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:09,640
I don't want to be in a band anymore.”
477
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,918
I was stunned. I couldn't believe it.
478
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,240
Kendra was my friend, my, you
know, my oldest friend in the band.
479
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,998
Despite my complaint about
touring, I think most of that was just
480
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:26,318
no privacy and no breaks.
481
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:31,278
I really just need to be alone a
lot more time than was had for me.
482
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,358
You pack all your equipment
and five or six people into a van.
483
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:39,438
You crowd into motel
rooms all across the country.
484
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,358
You know, you're uncomfortable.
485
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,678
I think that we started evolving
as a band to somewhere else.
486
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,798
We're kind of getting started going to a
487
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:52,638
slowly, going to more
of a rock kind of sound.
488
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:59,120
We slowly started playing less of
the Velvets and more Neil Young.
489
00:30:15,472 --> 00:30:19,472
[band playing]
490
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:29,798
We played our last show with her in L.A.,
491
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,078
but things were not going to
stop. Things were still moving along.
492
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,638
So I never considered breaking up
the band. I knew we had to move along.
493
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,558
And very quickly after she quit the band,
494
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,520
we got asked to open a tour for U2.
495
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,758
Dave played in a band called the
Textones, who I had seen a few times.
496
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,478
He was also in a band called The Droogs,
which is kind of a garage rock thing.
497
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,638
Dave was nice. He learned the songs.
498
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,958
You're in the band. No question.
There was no other audition.
499
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,078
I got together with Kendra.
500
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,158
And Kendra showed me her lines
501
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:03,920
that she was using on the songs.
502
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,998
And I liked them so much.
503
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,080
I just continued playing her lines.
504
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,958
And it wasn't out of lack
of other things to play.
505
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,880
It was just that they were
that good and that solid.
506
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,158
This was the beginning of the
change of The Dream Syndicate
507
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:21,238
to a different kind of band.
508
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:25,038
And Dave, gave a little
more of a of a rock sound.
509
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,358
More testosterone than estrogen.
510
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,120
It became a tougher band.
511
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,558
That first show when they
opened for U2 was just insane.
512
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:46,998
It didn't seem like they really
513
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:48,478
were, like, feeling like there was
514
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,558
a bunch of pressure
opening for U2 or something.
515
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:51,558
They were just kind of crazy.
516
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,798
And I remember Karl Precoda
like tearing strings off his guitar
517
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,118
and wrapping him around the
guitar as he was still playing and stuff.
518
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,318
And it was just a lot of noise,
actually, but it was really, really good.
519
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,118
We were opening for them every night.
520
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,678
All across America. We played
the Palladium in New York
521
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,598
and we played similar sized
venues across the country.
522
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,038
And it really put The Dream
Syndicate at a higher level
523
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,118
in terms of their live profile
and their national awareness.
524
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:19,678
Bono would come in occasionally
backstage and sit down and talk to us.
525
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,638
And I remember a couple of times,
I think he even gave us a little like
526
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,838
giving us a few pointers
about how to do things on stage.
527
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,438
He goes: “You know your guitar
player, he represents United States.
528
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,958
He should paint his guitar
red, white and blue, like a flag.”
529
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,478
And I looked at him and
said: “Buck Owens does that.”
530
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,480
He looked at me: “Who?”
531
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,120
I’m like, if you don’t know
who Buck Owens is, pal.
532
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,238
We are experiencing
the adrenaline of success.
533
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,198
We’re experiencing traveling
the country for the first time.
534
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,358
Driving through Mississippi and
Wyoming and Idaho and places
535
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,478
we've never seen before
and what people are like.
536
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,187
And all these things we're
feeding into the music.
537
00:33:15,327 --> 00:33:17,520
[rock music]
538
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,518
1983, we had worked it up to the point
539
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,838
where they basically became the
hottest independent band in L.A..
540
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,958
We outgrew an independent
label at that point.
541
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,598
There were a lot of people interested
542
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,718
on that last tour coming out
to shows, people from labels.
543
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:37,518
Three in particular EMI, Geffen
and A&M all wanted to sign the band.
544
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,198
At one point, it looked certain
that we were going to sign
545
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:44,078
to Geffen Records, but then the
A&M people were very convincing.
546
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:45,398
They loved the music.
547
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,678
And we just saw so much enthusiasm
548
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:51,160
coming from them that we ended
up making our deal with them
549
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,518
So that was the label we chose to go on.
550
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,360
And they started the process
to make Medicine Show.
551
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:01,518
We had to choose a producer.
552
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,398
And for some reason, we just
fixed on Sandy, on Sandy Pearlman.
553
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,078
We knew him from The Clash.
554
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,878
I guess that's the one album, the
second Clash album, Give ‘Em Enough Rope.
555
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,358
And I guess Blue Öyster Cult too, you know.
556
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,158
He managed to appeal
557
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,280
to something Karl wanted
and something I wanted.
558
00:34:17,240 --> 00:34:19,558
I wanted something that
was kind of like, you know, just
559
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,278
little punk rock and strong, aggressive.
560
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,320
So I had the side, that he did
The Dictators and The Clash.
561
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,558
Karl wanted this thing more
rock and roll and little mainstream.
562
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,758
He got Blue Öyster Cult.
So it worked for both of us.
563
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,918
I saw them at UCLA
and actually I loved them.
564
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:34,198
But it was with Kendra.
565
00:34:34,240 --> 00:34:39,358
It is amazing what a
difference it made, substituting
566
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,360
Provost for Smith.
567
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,638
And it was kind of
568
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:50,718
amazing and dismaying, actually,
because I was kind of intrigued
569
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,360
with the idea of making
an intimate dreamy record.
570
00:34:56,160 --> 00:35:00,318
We went to San Francisco,
I think September of 83.
571
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:05,078
We got put up in some condos
that Sandy had access to.
572
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:09,878
The Automatt was a very,
very plush recording studio.
573
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,278
While we were in there,
there were other bands.
574
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,638
I think we had Jefferson Starship
575
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,038
on one side of us and
Yoko Ono on the other.
576
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,038
We played the songs. Spent
two weeks doing basic tracks.
577
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,318
Okay, two weeks instead of one day.
578
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,640
But still not that excessive for the times.
579
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,678
We would do many,
many, many takes of a song.
580
00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:37,118
His way of working
was to do all these takes
581
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,798
and then go back and
edit parts of them together.
582
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,718
Try that, now try it
again, now try it again.
583
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:45,798
Over and over and over.
584
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,318
I like to do a lot of takes, because
585
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,558
pretty early in my career,
586
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:54,758
my career of evil.
587
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:55,800
Quote.
588
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,278
I discovered that
accidents were really good.
589
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,200
We finished the session
and Dennis went home.
590
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,600
Dave did two weeks of bass overdubs.
591
00:36:08,240 --> 00:36:10,958
Now, that's incredible.
Two weeks of bass overdubs.
592
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,078
I can't think of how, how is that done?
593
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,758
Dennis and I would go
back home to Los Angeles
594
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,358
and then we'd get called back
595
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,440
and it would be Sandy
wanting us to repair one note.
596
00:36:21,720 --> 00:36:24,280
Then Karl did his guitar
parts and took six weeks.
597
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,958
We had a ton of fun recording guitar parts.
598
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,318
You know, he was happy
to try any experiment.
599
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:36,358
We had good sound.
600
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,438
Six weeks of Karl by himself
in the studio, doing guitar parts.
601
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,598
And it was a kind of thing where you
just didn't know. We didn't know better.
602
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,335
Records in the eighties took two to
three months. That’s what they took.
603
00:36:45,375 --> 00:36:48,600
[rock music]
604
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:50,558
After two weeks of basic tracks,
605
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,238
two weeks of bass overdubs,
six weeks of guitar overdubs.
606
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:54,238
Here's the hard part.
607
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:55,718
Six weeks of vocals.
608
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:57,958
Six weeks of me singing eight songs.
609
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,480
I really wanted to do well.
610
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,078
I wanted to, you know,
611
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:08,440
I started by doing what I
thought was right as a singer.
612
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,718
Then after a while, I just tried
to figure out what Sandy wanted.
613
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:13,278
You know, I don't know if Steve knew
614
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,118
that I was working to
make him sound as awesome
615
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:17,518
as I could make him sound.
616
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,278
I don't think it was much of a struggle.
617
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,598
I don't even think the
record is taking that long.
618
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:27,358
You know, you get a big
producer to come in and you're
619
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,720
giving up some control or a lot of control.
620
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:36,278
And so, as the artist, you know, your
vision maybe gets diminished a little bit.
621
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:37,798
I was so exasperated,
622
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:39,918
that I just really went deep inside myself
623
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:44,998
and I came with these
weary, painful, otherworldly,
624
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,838
dark vocals that work great.
625
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:50,680
But it was a hard road to get there.
626
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,198
Steve was not as efficient.
627
00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:09,038
I think it was a kind of consequence of
628
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,558
of other things, which had little to do
629
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:15,720
with the recording process, that
just were going on at the same time.
630
00:38:16,240 --> 00:38:19,160
You know, it would be
fun to work with Steve now.
631
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:21,638
It wasn't that much fun
to work with Steve then.
632
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,040
I think I'm a pretty nice
guy, pretty approachable
633
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:26,438
in general, you know.
634
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:27,880
Everybody has their bad moments.
635
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:30,398
But for those six months,
I became a bad guy.
636
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:35,198
Not a not a cruel guy, not a
malicious guy, but just a dark,
637
00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:39,078
self-obsessed, hard drinking
guy going to bad places.
638
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:43,158
And I made decisions involving
friends and weren't always that great.
639
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,960
And I think a lot of that had to do
with taking that long to make a record.
640
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:48,958
All of your confidence goes away.
641
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,080
You know, whatever happened was
642
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:58,080
infinitely less pleasant than any
other record I had made, you know?
643
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:07,040
Even recording The Clash was more fun.
644
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:08,678
Which is saying a lot.
645
00:39:08,720 --> 00:39:10,878
We were in there when we were recording.
646
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:15,720
There was a lot of drinking going
on and we were there involved.
647
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:20,158
And I think it was frustrating for Steve
and the guys that it was taking so long.
648
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,238
It made me crazy.
649
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,440
It was five months of just feeling
650
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,078
disconnected, hopeless, not
knowing how things were going down.
651
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,318
I was drinking a lot, and also,
652
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:33,798
sadly, that was beginning
653
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,478
of the end of the friendship
with me and Karl, because Karl
654
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:38,878
was kind of enjoying that.
655
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,918
He enjoyed, it felt
like what rock bands do.
656
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,278
You go in, you make a record
that takes forever, because that's
657
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,158
that proves you're successful.
658
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,998
This is what Led Zeppelin might have done.
659
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,238
I think he was very excited
by that and he was annoyed
660
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:55,838
that I would try to put an end to that.
661
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,080
So I think we had our first bits of
really big tension making that record.
662
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:06,836
Karl wanted to be in a bigger band.
663
00:40:06,876 --> 00:40:07,480
[rock music]
664
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:09,158
In other words, he wanted to be in a band
665
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,918
that sold records and played bigger places.
666
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:16,918
And so I think he's really pushing
his sort of seventies rock sound.
667
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:17,678
By the end of the day
668
00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:19,718
we had a record that we both liked.
669
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,080
It somehow matched that
thing, which we both wanted.
670
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:27,558
He had made a very wide scope
671
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:31,360
record that was a great
reflection of his talents.
672
00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:35,678
And I had made a record
that was dark and unsettling
673
00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:39,678
and would divide people into two
camps who either liked or didn't like it.
674
00:40:39,720 --> 00:40:41,118
Everybody was happy.
675
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,880
But unfortunately, we at that
point were kind of finished as friends.
676
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,438
It just took me a little
while to get to realize,
677
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:13,958
wow, this is a different sounding
band than the one I that I knew.
678
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:19,000
I was just shaken by the power
of the Medicine Show album.
679
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,478
I was, like, trembling.
680
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,158
I'm like, Jesus Christ, this
is some pretty heavy stuff.
681
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,878
I honestly, despite the fact
that I was beaten to a pulp
682
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:29,318
from the making of that record,
683
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:33,318
I came out of that feeling like
this is going to blow people's minds.
684
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:34,718
We knew we had changed.
685
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:38,278
We knew we'd gone through
a lot of changes in one year,
686
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:39,558
but we'd forgotten then,
687
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:42,240
what I hadn't realized
as a music fan is that
688
00:41:43,240 --> 00:41:45,278
for other people who loved
Days of Wine and Roses
689
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:46,918
they hadn't gone through
those changes with us.
690
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,598
I think it works in retrospect.
691
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,078
I think at the time a lot of
people were disappointed,
692
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,520
cause it didn't sound like
The Days of Wine and Roses.
693
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,158
But they didn't need to
make that record again.
694
00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:58,318
They'd already done it.
695
00:41:58,360 --> 00:41:59,480
Word got around, you know.
696
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:00,598
Oh, The Dream Syndicate
697
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,678
spend 250.000 dollars making Medicine Show.
698
00:42:03,720 --> 00:42:07,960
It was amazing that it took so
long and cost them so much to make.
699
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,958
And although it was a different sound,
700
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,558
in some ways it was a stronger
record than Days of Wine and Roses.
701
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:15,758
Medicine Show
702
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,000
it had this reputation as
703
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:23,838
sort of a bloated attempt at,
704
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,118
you know, some kind of
big rock and roll statement,
705
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:31,118
you know, almost like Rumours
by Fleetwood Mac, which has this
706
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,518
reputation of, oh, my
God, they spent like millions
707
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,358
and millions of dollars
and did tons of drugs.
708
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:40,118
But Rumours is a fantastic
record that holds up really well.
709
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,158
And what Steve was trying
710
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:47,360
to do on Medicine Show, again,
it was incredibly ambitious.
711
00:42:56,737 --> 00:43:00,737
[rock music]
712
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,158
The funny thing about Dave
Provost and The Dream Syndicate is
713
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,478
he wasn't really a member
of the band that long.
714
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:15,958
After we made the record,
715
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:17,998
we got offered the tour with R.E.M.
716
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:19,638
and we were ready to go on there,
717
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:21,798
and there was some tension there.
718
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,038
When we were in rehearsals,
Steve looked around and goes:
719
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,040
“Dave, I think you're going to
have to do the backup vocals.”
720
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,798
And at that point, I just panicked,
like I'd never panicked before.
721
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:36,078
I think he was having some romantic
issues and a girlfriend who kind of
722
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,758
was pressuring him to
pressure us in certain ways.
723
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,678
I had a girlfriend that was being
really, really horrible and, you know,
724
00:43:42,720 --> 00:43:46,558
trying to snoop around the
band's business and stuff like that.
725
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:48,998
We were not going to budge
on this and we can't really.
726
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:50,918
And he said: “Fine, I'm going
to quit.” And that was that.
727
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,198
So we found ourselves
without a bass player,
728
00:43:53,240 --> 00:43:56,280
much in a way we were before
the U2 tour a year before that,
729
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,598
without a bass player and a big
tour coming up, a tour with R.E.M.
730
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:01,038
across the country. Eight weeks.
731
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:04,638
And Karl said: “I know this guy
732
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,598
who's a friend of a friend
of mine and I've met him.
733
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:08,598
He's a nice guy.
734
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:10,358
I think he's a really good bass player.
735
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:11,438
Let's ask him.”
736
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:13,080
So that was Mark Walton.
737
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,718
I owned a rehearsal studio
in Van Nuys, California.
738
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,838
I was working. Karl came by
the studio one afternoon and said:
739
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:23,118
“Hey Mark, what are you doing?”
740
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:28,600
I’m like, I'm working. This is my job.
741
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,918
He goes: “No, not not today.
742
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,278
For the next month or year or whatever?”
743
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:36,158
I'm like, what do you mean?
744
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:40,598
So he pulls out the EP and
The Days of Wine and Roses
745
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,638
and the new album they just
finished, the Medicine Show,
746
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:47,918
and said: “Could you learn all
these and go on tour and a week?”
747
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:52,038
And so I said, I think about it, you know.
748
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:53,518
So next day I called him.
749
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,918
I said: “Sure, that
sounds like fun. Let’s go!”
750
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,678
So he came up, showed
up, play the songs great.
751
00:44:59,720 --> 00:45:00,520
Seem nice enough.
752
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,598
He had kind of a, he wore
a bandana around his neck,
753
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:07,398
kind of a Hollywood rockabilly look.
754
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:08,760
I don't know about that bandana.
755
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:10,718
Besides a bandana I like you.
756
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:12,238
He really came along at a good time,
757
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:16,038
because for one thing, and
this cannot be understated,
758
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:17,760
he got along with Karl
and he got along with me.
759
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:48,958
I don't know if we had the idea
to have keyboards from the start,
760
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:49,887
but I think once we realized the sound
was going to be so big and so cinematic
761
00:45:49,927 --> 00:45:53,927
[band playing]
762
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,238
and so epic, we all decided
keyboards would be great with this.
763
00:45:58,280 --> 00:45:59,918
Sandy suggested Tommy Zvoncheck.
764
00:45:59,960 --> 00:46:03,438
He was a great player and he really
had the right sound for that record.
765
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:07,838
Tommy Zvoncheck ended up going
on tour with us, because he'd played
766
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:09,758
so much on Medicine Show.
767
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:14,518
He'd played so many parts on
those songs that we wanted to have,
768
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,240
we wanted to recreate that sound live.
769
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:30,958
The sound of Medicine Show
770
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,238
and the sound of that tour is an anomaly.
771
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:35,840
It's a sound and a style
I did for six months.
772
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:38,198
Never before. Never since.
773
00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:41,638
But it's a really important
period for what music I made.
774
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:44,520
And I’m really proud of that. But it's
such a funny, different kind of record.
775
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,440
It's almost like a different person
stepped into my body for six months.
776
00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:06,318
When we went on tour
777
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,318
with R.E.M., you know, we
had that big old tour bus.
778
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,158
We were traveling in style
779
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:15,278
and we were playing with a
really great hip new band, too.
780
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:19,798
We all got along really well and I was
so happy to be there, my first big tour.
781
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:24,278
So, you know, to me it was a
very enlightening experience.
782
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:26,838
It was a really, very exciting time.
783
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:30,078
It was strange, because
while this was all happening,
784
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:31,958
Karl and I were pulling further apart.
785
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:36,078
What Karl wanted, once we got
successful, was to be more successful.
786
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:37,838
And to be a rock star.
787
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:39,158
He was a lead guitarist
788
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,080
who played with, you know, an
open vest and no shirt underneath.
789
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:45,318
It's easy just to look
back in one way and say:
790
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:46,918
Well, I wasn't getting along with Karl.
791
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:49,878
And we made a record which
alienated some of our audience.
792
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:54,718
But at the same time, we were playing to a
lot of people who loved what we were doing.
793
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:58,958
The beautiful thing was in
Europe, where we had never toured
794
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:01,280
and were Days of Wine and
Roses was kind of barely known.
795
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,400
We were a new band that people loved.
796
00:48:04,720 --> 00:48:08,118
It seems like right now that the
audiences in Europe for the first time
797
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:11,998
in a while, are very excited about
what's happening in the U.S.A..
798
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:16,198
And they want to know about bands
like us and Green on Red and R.E.M.
799
00:48:16,240 --> 00:48:17,960
and all these bands from the U.S..
800
00:48:53,038 --> 00:48:57,038
[rock music]
801
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:09,998
This was a really great period of time.
802
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:13,918
It was only tempered by the fact
that you're in a band of four people
803
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:15,838
and two of those people
aren't talking to each other.
804
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,838
He's looking at me and hating everything
I say or do, and I'm looking at him
805
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:20,358
and hating everything he says or does.
806
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,038
That's a thing I just don't like
having when I'm making music.
807
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:25,278
I was designated as Karl's roommate.
808
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:28,038
I was a buffer, really,
between the two of them.
809
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:33,158
So they didn't have
their emotional outbursts
810
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:36,480
or anything else that
might occur during the tour.
811
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,598
We then went to Japan.
And something on that tour
812
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:42,278
and I can't even say what it was,
813
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:45,038
but it felt like he and I
just really at that point
814
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:46,718
got more disconnected than ever.
815
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:49,760
I remember some of the later
shows, it seemed like it was,
816
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:55,318
things weren't as
friendly as they used to be.
817
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:57,880
Definitely had that sense.
818
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:44,718
I came back from that tour.
And I think can't do this anymore.
819
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:46,358
I'm just not happy.
820
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:48,758
I'm not getting joy out of this.
821
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:52,358
And I'm feeling a tension
and feeling a disconnect from
822
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:54,078
somebody who once was my friend.
823
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:56,838
So I got on the phone and I called
824
00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:00,118
each member of the band individually
and said: “That's it, we're breaking up!”
825
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:06,318
When Steve called me and told me
the band was breaking up, I was shocked.
826
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:08,678
I was like, why would you do that?
827
00:51:08,720 --> 00:51:09,718
When you get older, you might say:
828
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:12,358
“Hey, why don’t we get together for
a cup of coffee and talk about this?”
829
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:14,078
or “What's the thing bothering you?”
830
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:17,600
Or let's, you know, a more
mature way of handling it.
831
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:20,358
One person might say, “I'm through!”
832
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:22,038
The person might say: “Fine, me too!”
833
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:23,718
And that's that. And
that's what happened to us.
834
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:27,600
So we went from the tour to
being broken up in about two weeks.
835
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:41,958
Right after that Japanese tour.
836
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:45,878
When we came back and the band was broken
up, I had something to transition into,
837
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:48,112
which was the Danny &
Dusty project with Dan Stuart.
838
00:51:48,152 --> 00:51:48,960
[rock music]
839
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:53,678
And we'd recorded a couple of
tracks together for a compilation
840
00:51:53,720 --> 00:51:57,078
around the beginning of ‘84. And
we decided to make a whole record.
841
00:51:57,120 --> 00:52:00,318
So we went into the studio
and made The Lost Weekend
842
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:03,678
in a weekend, exactly as the
title suggests, a very quick record.
843
00:52:03,720 --> 00:52:05,438
And the engineer on the record was Paul.
844
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:07,158
That was a fun record. It was easy.
845
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:10,998
It's got a great spirit and it's
got a great sense of humor.
846
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:14,520
That record is called The
Lost Weekend for a reason.
847
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:17,758
Nobody really remembers
what happened there.
848
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:19,998
It was just a great mix of songs.
849
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:21,680
We played a few shows in L.A..
850
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:50,918
Because of having such a good time
851
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:54,118
on the Danny & Dusty record,
because I had a good time with Paul,
852
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:57,640
because I had really good memories
of playing with Dennis and Mark as well.
853
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:02,240
I kind of decided. Well, let's
get together and play some music.
854
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:08,078
After auditioning Nels Cline and
Eddie Muñoz and a few other people.
855
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:09,838
You know, four people altogether.
856
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:12,678
And Paul just seemed like the best person.
857
00:53:12,720 --> 00:53:16,078
As soon as we heard Paul
playing with the band, we all just
858
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:18,198
agreed that he was the guy.
859
00:53:18,240 --> 00:53:20,358
Hello there, my name is Paul B. Cutler.
860
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:23,360
I play in a rock band
called The Dream Syndicate.
861
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:27,318
It is again that type of thing when
at the time, it felt like a long time
862
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:29,598
between the two things.
It was only three months.
863
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:31,678
But there was enough
time to clear out the bad air.
864
00:53:31,720 --> 00:53:34,878
And from the time we started playing with
Paul, I suddenly felt excited about being
865
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:36,040
The Dream Syndicate again.
866
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:02,318
It was a really perfect band
for me to be able to join.
867
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:04,880
It really was a good situation.
868
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,760
It helped me expand
869
00:54:09,720 --> 00:54:11,918
my guitar playing a little bit more.
870
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:13,878
Paul, there wasn't
anything you couldn't do.
871
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:16,480
If he wanted to play twenty
notes in a second, he could do that.
872
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:19,158
If he wants some feedback for
twenty seconds, he could do that.
873
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:21,798
Whatever he wanted to
do, he was unafraid to do it.
874
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:22,807
And that was exciting for me.
875
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:34,318
If they wanted Karl Precoda clone,
876
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:35,758
they could have found one.
877
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:37,558
I mean, I tried to honor,
878
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:38,941
like, Tell Me When It’s Over,
879
00:54:38,981 --> 00:54:40,000
[rock music]
880
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:41,518
there's sort of a signature part:
881
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:45,998
dah dah dah, nah nah nah
nah, nah nah nah nahnah.
882
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:46,998
Right.
883
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:48,758
I tried to honor stuff like that.
884
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:50,118
Other than that,
885
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:54,958
I didn't sit around trying
to learn Karl Precoda parts.
886
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,878
It was very much The Dream Syndicate.
887
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:00,798
But it was
888
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:01,758
The Dream Syndicate
889
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:05,078
the way The Stones were one way
890
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:09,878
with Brian Jones and
another way with Mick Taylor.
891
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:15,678
You know, the guitar
voice helped to transform
892
00:55:15,720 --> 00:55:18,358
what was already there into something new.
893
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:21,958
Live The Dream Syndicate
with Paul B. Cutler
894
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:26,238
was totally different than Karl, but
equally, sometimes even more exciting.
895
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:32,838
It's Paul's postrock and jazzisms
and punk rock sound with Steve's,
896
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:35,798
that really made me feel
great about that band.
897
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:39,678
I really felt like that
contrast was really beautiful.
898
00:55:39,720 --> 00:55:43,718
I was always kind of knocked out about
how he could get these crazy sounds.
899
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:47,798
I saw Paul Cutler doing all those
guitar things with tools and stuff
900
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:50,240
before Eddie van Halen
was doing those things.
901
00:55:58,720 --> 00:56:00,118
Paul incorporated everything.
902
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:01,638
I don't know where he was coming from.
903
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:03,878
I mean, I know he's a big
music listener, but to be honest,
904
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:05,398
I don't know what one thing
905
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:06,798
inspired him more than anything else.
906
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:08,198
But it fit well with us.
907
00:56:08,240 --> 00:56:09,880
It really became the new sound of the band.
908
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:17,678
I think we went on tour in
1985 without a new record.
909
00:56:17,720 --> 00:56:20,998
We toured the States, came back home
and said: “Let's do a record together.”
910
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:23,598
So I wrote the songs for Out of the Grey.
911
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:25,960
Nothing old there. It was all new stuff.
912
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:28,678
And we started doing demos at A&M.
913
00:56:28,720 --> 00:56:30,518
And we're excited by
that. It felt really good.
914
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:34,158
I think we did four or five songs for them
915
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:37,318
and they just weren't that happy with them.
916
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:39,520
Oh my God, okay, we'll do it again.
917
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:40,838
Nah, something else.
918
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:42,358
Oh my God, what do you want? You know.
919
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:44,678
They wanted to hear a single
920
00:56:44,720 --> 00:56:48,158
or they wanted to hear something
that was going to be more accessible.
921
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:50,440
I think.
We want to do this, because we like it.
922
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:53,438
And if we could somehow do something
923
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:56,958
to make you happy, maybe we try,
but we don't even know what you want.
924
00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:58,918
The guy is like: “Oh, these
are pretty good demos.
925
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:01,078
When you're going to make the record?”
926
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:05,000
And Steve said something
like: “This is the record.”
927
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:10,419
I know a couple of people
who worked at the label
928
00:57:10,459 --> 00:57:12,360
[rock music]
929
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:16,598
had left the label between Medicine
Show and the follow-up album.
930
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:19,038
And when you start to lose people,
931
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:22,960
sometimes the base of support
within the label can erode.
932
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:24,798
After the third round of demos,
933
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:27,038
I met with the guy who
signed us to the label.
934
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:28,238
Very nice guy.
935
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:31,518
I sat down and said:
“Look, we love touring.
936
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:34,358
We want to get out there
and play. That's our livelihood.
937
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:36,158
We have a lot of fans.
938
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:40,398
We could be a band for you that can
make records cheaply, a lot cheaper
939
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:44,838
than Medicine Show was. We can
make inexpensive records and tour
940
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:48,838
a lot and sell 50.000 copies
and everybody makes money.”
941
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:52,998
And he said: “We're not in the
business of selling 50.000 records.”
942
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:56,838
We were, you know, like 400.000
dollars in debt to these people.
943
00:57:56,880 --> 00:57:59,360
He said: “If you want
to go, we'll let you go.”
944
00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:01,520
I said: “We want to go.”
945
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:05,918
And not only did A&M let us go,
946
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:09,320
not only was a giant debt of Medicine Show
947
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:12,998
a lot of money, a quarter
of a million dollars.
948
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:16,840
Not only was a giant debt of all
the money we lost on the R.E.M. tour,
949
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:19,480
another hundrerd thousand dollars.
950
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:21,798
Not only was that all gone,
951
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:23,478
wiped like it never happened.
952
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:25,880
But they gave us money to go away.
953
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:27,758
It was in the contract.
954
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:31,998
We had some of those kind of clauses
in our deal that allowed them to leave
955
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:35,958
and that we got a payment on the back
end and things like that, that you never
956
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:39,958
would have gotten if you were
only being pursued by one label.
957
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:42,038
And the money they
gave us to leave the label
958
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:44,598
was the money we spent
making Out of the Grey ourselves.
959
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:46,758
And we recorded the
whole record on our own.
960
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:47,718
Paul produced it.
961
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:49,278
And we had a finished record and sold
962
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:53,078
the finished record to a new label
called Big Time who just started up
963
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:54,440
and were thrilled to have it.
964
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:05,038
I think that I tried to
965
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:09,880
force it a little too much
into a popper direction.
966
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:13,078
Not that it's pop music on any level.
967
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:15,520
I think he did a great job recording.
968
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:18,918
It's just the mixing that
got everybody screwed up.
969
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:24,198
It's all this bad eighties, you know,
technology that everybody was using.
970
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:25,718
We're not the only ones.
971
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:27,198
We just happened to be caught in it.
972
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:28,998
Out of the Grey was problematic,
973
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:32,078
because apparently it
was not mastered correctly.
974
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:34,200
And so the original
975
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:41,438
sound of it was, you know, didn't cut
through the way Medicine Show did.
976
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:45,038
I always have to watch what
I say about Out of the Grey,
977
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:46,958
because there’s a side
of me that feels like
978
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:48,880
it's my least favorite
record I've ever made.
979
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:50,840
And when I say that,
980
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:53,958
it's a hard thing to say,
981
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:57,240
because first of all, a
lot of fans really like it.
982
00:59:57,800 --> 00:59:58,918
A lot of fans love it.
983
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:00,558
I meet people, it’s their favorite one.
984
01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:05,198
And it feels hard to say, well
you're wrong, because you know
985
01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:07,320
ultimately it doesn't belong
to me anymore at that point.
986
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:31,598
They're not that many
songs there I’m not fond of.
987
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:33,838
There's some songs that I
actually dislike, you know.
988
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:36,360
Dancing Blind is on that, I hate that song.
989
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:38,640
So, of all my records I've made.
990
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:41,638
That one has the most
songs where I just feel like
991
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:43,200
I just wasn't doing that good a job.
992
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:53,318
The song Boston, which is sort
of, you know, a big, long, epic song.
993
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:56,198
And I really got into it
because that's a song about
994
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:59,718
Van Morrison living in
Boston in the late sixties.
995
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:03,480
And so Steve and I bonded
over those lyrics of nothing else.
996
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:22,518
Even that record
997
01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:25,318
was a great album and I’m still on board.
998
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:30,118
Out of the Grey has a much more
kind of hopeful kind of streak in it,
999
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:35,880
but it also has incredibly dark
themes in it and some really dark songs.
1000
01:01:47,720 --> 01:01:50,158
Every day I get another sympathy card.
1001
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:52,998
If you think about that, it's brilliant.
1002
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:58,158
I mean, think of how dark
and literary that line is.
1003
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:01,918
So, Steve’s songs from that period,
again even though these aren't
1004
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:06,678
the albums that I think
define him for a lot of people.
1005
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:10,600
You know, for me, they are
some of his strongest work.
1006
01:02:33,768 --> 01:02:37,768
[rock music]
1007
01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:44,320
In the States, in the U.S.,
and this is a funny story.
1008
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:48,198
It was seen as a comeback record
and a comeback tour, because the U.S.
1009
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:51,760
was a little unsure about Medicine
Show in some ways. Critics anyway.
1010
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:53,640
We went to Europe
1011
01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:56,958
and critics didn't like
Out of the Grey so much.
1012
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:59,158
If I'm not mistaken, the
reviews weren't as good.
1013
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:01,798
So it was that kind of, there’s
a weird kind of seesaw effect.
1014
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:05,080
But our second European
tour was better than ever.
1015
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:14,080
More cities, more countries,
more places, bigger audiences.
1016
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:17,598
Europe was great. We
were more popular there.
1017
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:19,998
So we'd go over there
and just have all this fun,
1018
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:23,280
and then we'd be driving
thousands of miles around America.
1019
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:27,000
We played successful
shows, but it wasn't the same.
1020
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:32,880
And you got to drive a long ways
to get from Boston to Chicago.
1021
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:35,840
That's a long ways, man.
1022
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:39,360
It's not like going from
Belgium to Holland.
1023
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:45,838
Now I don't know how this happened.
1024
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:50,320
I don't know how with two days
notice, somebody had the idea
1025
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:53,960
to book The Dream Syndicate to
headline the main stage at Roskilde.
1026
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:55,198
But they did.
1027
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:57,598
We were on tour, I think we were in Italy.
1028
01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:00,520
And, you know, we got a call from our
1029
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:04,800
our manager or agent, I think it was, that
1030
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:09,158
The Cult had canceled and they were like
1031
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:14,558
a headlining slot on Roskilde.
And would we like to fill in for them?
1032
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:19,798
So we landed in Copenhagen, drove an
hour to Roskilde, got there, showed up.
1033
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:22,920
I mean, we went right
to our backstage room,
1034
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:26,400
had a beer and it was time to play.
1035
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:27,638
That was it.
1036
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:30,520
Walked on stage in front of 50.000 people.
1037
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:34,480
And a guy came out, introduced us and said,
1038
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:38,758
“Now I know a lot of you expect to
see The Cult. They were going to play.
1039
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:39,878
They couldn't play.
1040
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:41,438
But we have something special for you.”
1041
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:45,718
Directly from Los Angeles, California.
1042
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:48,598
The Dream Syndicate.
1043
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:51,598
I think they saw us kind of being
heroic, because we showed up.
1044
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:55,438
And on no notice whatsoever
came to entertain people.
1045
01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:57,680
Everything was right.
And we played a great set.
1046
01:05:01,848 --> 01:05:05,848
[crowd cheering]
1047
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:17,360
So we started playing and
people started throwing coins at us.
1048
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:21,518
And we're kind of like,
weird. And me and Mark
1049
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:25,480
actually started picking them up,
just putting them in our pockets.
1050
01:05:27,680 --> 01:05:30,398
We just thought: well, it's
money we might as well take it
1051
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:31,640
and go have lunch.
1052
01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:46,558
Steve played right before us,
1053
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:47,164
and that's when I saw
the band for the first time.
1054
01:05:47,204 --> 01:05:50,560
[rock music]
1055
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:53,040
And then and I remember
it really well, because
1056
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:58,878
we were up next after them and
it started raining during our set.
1057
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:00,838
It was wonderful disaster.
1058
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:04,518
To this day that's why I think I have
a really good career in Scandinavia.
1059
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:08,718
It made such an impression on fans
from Denmark and Norway and Sweden
1060
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:10,720
the lasts with us for a long time.
1061
01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:17,838
From the time after
Out of the Grey came out,
1062
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:20,440
and after that tour
finished. Probably late ‘86.
1063
01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:22,278
I started writing a lot.
1064
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:24,598
And we started playing this
kind of acoustic trio shows,
1065
01:06:24,640 --> 01:06:27,758
and I started writing
songs for those shows.
1066
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:31,518
Here tonight with Chris
Cacavas from Green on Red
1067
01:06:31,560 --> 01:06:36,520
and Robert Lloyd from the
Romans and the infamous criticalist.
1068
01:06:45,200 --> 01:06:49,478
This combination was just a blast.
1069
01:06:49,520 --> 01:06:54,118
And it was the beginning of the
era, that went on until this day,
1070
01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:56,998
of me collaborating with Steve Wynn.
1071
01:06:57,040 --> 01:07:00,798
Thought about doing a solo
record, but decided instead it was
1072
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:02,640
a good time to make a record
with the Dream Syndicate.
1073
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:10,758
If I complain about Out of the Grey.
1074
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:13,878
One thing about it is also I didn't
think we had found our sound yet.
1075
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:15,958
When we made Ghost
Stories, we had our sound.
1076
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:18,438
We've been on tour. We
knew what we were going for.
1077
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:20,358
I wrote songs I liked.
1078
01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:23,158
And at that point we looked
for an outside producer.
1079
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:26,598
And somebody introduced me to Elliot Mazer.
1080
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:28,078
I can't remember who.
1081
01:07:28,120 --> 01:07:30,078
But I knew Elliot Mazer,
because he had produced
1082
01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:32,998
Harvest by Neil Young and
Time Fades Away by Neil Young.
1083
01:07:33,040 --> 01:07:36,878
Steve came in and said that
1084
01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:39,718
Elliot Mazer was on.
1085
01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:41,958
You know, we didn't
have a discussion about it.
1086
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:45,919
He just came and said: “Can you believe
that Elliot said yes?”, kind of thing.
1087
01:07:45,961 --> 01:07:48,440
We're like, wow, that's really cool.
1088
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:57,638
While we were kind of
preparing for Ghost Stories,
1089
01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:02,918
while we were doing the
pre-production, we did a show at Raji’s.
1090
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:06,358
This Club in Hollywood that we liked
a lot. And Elliot said: “Let's record it.”
1091
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:11,038
And we recorded directly to DAT
and we're going to mix it on the spot.
1092
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:13,600
So when the show's over,
you got your recording.
1093
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:17,280
And it was just one of our best live shows.
1094
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:19,518
And a lot of people say that's
the best Dream Syndicate record.
1095
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:21,760
And I wouldn't say that's impossible.
1096
01:08:50,320 --> 01:08:53,438
Sonically, it's an amazing
1097
01:08:53,480 --> 01:08:53,990
document to capture a band in their prime.
1098
01:08:54,030 --> 01:08:57,720
[rock music]
1099
01:08:57,760 --> 01:09:01,478
After hearing that, I'm like, why
the fuck would anyone ever go in
1100
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:05,440
a recording studio ever?
1101
01:09:09,080 --> 01:09:10,718
Elliot was real old school.
1102
01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:14,478
You know, he had that vibe,
which I loved from the sixties
1103
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:17,600
and seventies, where
create a good environment.
1104
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:20,278
Make the artists happy.
1105
01:09:20,320 --> 01:09:21,838
Get people excited.
1106
01:09:21,880 --> 01:09:23,038
Capture a moment.
1107
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:25,800
He's kind of this peacy Bay Area guy.
1108
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:29,958
I am a redneck from Arizona.
1109
01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:34,800
I mean, peacy just rubs me
all kinds of the wrong way.
1110
01:09:35,400 --> 01:09:36,638
You know? I hate it.
1111
01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:39,478
To me, it's fascism.
1112
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:40,838
I don't see any difference.
1113
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:44,758
He would stand in the studio with us,
not in the control booth, in the studio
1114
01:09:44,800 --> 01:09:46,038
and wave his arms around.
1115
01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:48,958
He would stand out there like he
was conducting us, like he was dancing.
1116
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:50,198
Like he was freaking out.
1117
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:54,518
He would jump right in my face
and shake his hands in the air
1118
01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:56,078
and shake his little butt.
1119
01:09:56,120 --> 01:09:59,958
He was losing his cool, so we could also.
1120
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:04,278
I think he was more in touch
with what the band was all about.
1121
01:10:04,320 --> 01:10:06,318
I like the record.
1122
01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:07,520
Once it was done, I liked it.
1123
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:45,078
It was produced by Elliot Mazer.
1124
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:49,918
He's the guy who basically produced,
help produce Time Fades Away,
1125
01:10:49,960 --> 01:10:53,318
one of the rawest Neil Young records ever.
1126
01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:56,958
Recorded live on a completely chaotic tour.
1127
01:10:57,000 --> 01:11:00,758
And yet it's really one
of the great dynamic
1128
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:05,598
documents of Neil Young as
a writer and as a performer.
1129
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:11,598
And Elliot bringing that
to this band, which helps,
1130
01:11:11,640 --> 01:11:14,198
I think, connect
1131
01:11:14,240 --> 01:11:18,398
Steve and The Dream Syndicate
with an important lineage
1132
01:11:18,440 --> 01:11:19,720
in American music.
1133
01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:23,078
We went to Europe to tour
for Ghost Stories immediately,
1134
01:12:23,120 --> 01:12:24,758
because we had a great following there.
1135
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:27,398
We had a seven week tour of
Europe and the shows were great.
1136
01:12:27,440 --> 01:12:29,718
We've had a lot of people that came out,
1137
01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:31,958
sold out most shows we played.
1138
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:37,398
We finished the European tour
and had two or three days off
1139
01:12:37,440 --> 01:12:40,560
and then started a seven
week U.S. tour. Insane.
1140
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:41,718
That's what we did.
1141
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:43,680
Where are you going to be going?
1142
01:12:44,400 --> 01:12:47,078
I mean, all of us are
going tomorrow to Boston,
1143
01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:51,880
going traveling around Midwest,
Canada, the South, Texas,
1144
01:12:53,120 --> 01:12:55,758
all the way to California,
for that week in California.
1145
01:12:55,800 --> 01:12:57,238
And at that point it will be 14 weeks.
1146
01:12:57,280 --> 01:12:58,958
We'll probably just
take a little time off and
1147
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:01,918
we're putting out a live record next
year and record a new studio album.
1148
01:13:01,960 --> 01:13:02,760
Just keep moving.
1149
01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:09,558
Well, in America at that point,
people have stopped caring.
1150
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:14,558
Our United States tour after
Ghost Stories was a shit show.
1151
01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:18,600
Club attendance at the shows
was getting a little lighter.
1152
01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:21,718
Some of our shows got canceled.
1153
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:25,238
We went through so many
managers and booking agents.
1154
01:13:25,280 --> 01:13:28,398
So by that point, we
didn't have a good focus,
1155
01:13:28,440 --> 01:13:31,558
a good team and coordination.
1156
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:36,478
At that point we had a
little of the curse of a band
1157
01:13:36,520 --> 01:13:37,718
that’s not new anymore.
1158
01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:42,720
It was absolutely
heartbreaking, man. Nobody came.
1159
01:13:44,360 --> 01:13:46,918
If you're a brand new band or starting
out and you play to twenty people
1160
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:49,640
you feel like, this is great, because
next time it will be thirty or forty.
1161
01:13:50,120 --> 01:13:52,798
When your band’s around for seven
years and you're playing to twenty people
1162
01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:53,920
and last year it was a hundred.
1163
01:13:55,560 --> 01:13:57,240
What’s going to be next time?
1164
01:13:58,720 --> 01:14:02,078
We had to do an overnight
drive after a show. We were tired.
1165
01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:05,560
We were fed up from, you know,
not great shows in attendance.
1166
01:14:06,120 --> 01:14:08,678
And Paul and I got
really drunk on the drive.
1167
01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:11,058
Mark and Paul started
having a pillow fight
1168
01:14:11,079 --> 01:14:13,598
in the van, whacking
each other with a pillow.
1169
01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:15,835
That's fun. Four in the morning,
little drunk, having a pillow fight.
1170
01:14:15,875 --> 01:14:16,920
[rock music]
1171
01:14:16,960 --> 01:14:20,758
And Paul said: “That's
it. Pull the van over.”
1172
01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:25,878
Paul just opens the door to the
van and disappears into the midnight.
1173
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:27,158
Oh, that's funny.
1174
01:14:27,200 --> 01:14:29,880
Paul's taken this joke one step further.
1175
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:32,798
And then we said: “Paul?”
1176
01:14:32,840 --> 01:14:36,158
We sat there for about an
hour and thinking he'd come back.
1177
01:14:36,200 --> 01:14:37,398
He didn't come back.
1178
01:14:37,440 --> 01:14:39,838
Now it’s four in the morning. Pitch black.
1179
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:41,880
We're in Canada and there's not
1180
01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:44,678
a town in sight.
1181
01:14:44,720 --> 01:14:46,798
There's no lights. We're
in the middle of nowhere.
1182
01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:49,720
So finally we thought, well, let's
go out there. We got a flashlight.
1183
01:14:50,360 --> 01:14:51,838
He actually pulled stuff.
1184
01:14:51,880 --> 01:14:54,638
So there is this trail, so we
could follow him for a while.
1185
01:14:54,680 --> 01:14:58,478
And it went out into a field
and disappeared. And that was it.
1186
01:14:58,520 --> 01:15:02,078
So we went back to the van
and started driving back and forth.
1187
01:15:02,120 --> 01:15:04,718
You know. We went for
miles. We couldn't find him.
1188
01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:06,478
Finally went back the other way.
1189
01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:10,798
And there he was, hitchhiking
on the side of the road,
1190
01:15:10,840 --> 01:15:13,198
going the opposite
direction than we were going.
1191
01:15:13,240 --> 01:15:14,438
And we drove up to him
1192
01:15:14,480 --> 01:15:18,000
and he sees us coming and he
starts running to get away from us.
1193
01:15:18,680 --> 01:15:20,478
“Paul, what are you doing?”
1194
01:15:20,520 --> 01:15:21,518
Keeps running.
1195
01:15:21,560 --> 01:15:22,838
“Get in the van.”
1196
01:15:22,880 --> 01:15:25,878
He got in the car, but he
wouldn't talk to anyone.
1197
01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:28,918
The late night, the disappointment
of the tour, the alcohol.
1198
01:15:28,960 --> 01:15:32,280
Something just got him so angry
and pushed him over the edge.
1199
01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:36,240
America is like the heartbreak city.
1200
01:15:37,240 --> 01:15:39,278
It's huge, you know.
1201
01:15:39,320 --> 01:15:43,398
And if you have to drive around
this country, you have to drive
1202
01:15:43,440 --> 01:15:47,680
a thousand miles across Texas
and then you get your heart broken.
1203
01:15:48,800 --> 01:15:50,360
This is not a good thing.
1204
01:15:56,480 --> 01:15:58,793
Once that first crack happens with
musicians, I'm looking for the way out.
1205
01:15:58,833 --> 01:16:00,480
[rock music]
1206
01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:03,238
And I told Dennis during
a tour, I think I'm done.
1207
01:16:03,280 --> 01:16:08,158
I wouldn't say I'd thought about
doing it, but when he when he said it,
1208
01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:09,398
it made sense.
1209
01:16:09,440 --> 01:16:12,358
It didn't even, like, shock me or anything.
1210
01:16:12,400 --> 01:16:15,118
If Steve wanted the band
over, the band was done.
1211
01:16:15,160 --> 01:16:16,798
And it was sad.
1212
01:16:16,840 --> 01:16:18,518
I was disappointed.
1213
01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:24,718
That was a very strong period that
in a way ended a little too abruptly.
1214
01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:28,118
You know, the band really
wasn't finished doing the business.
1215
01:16:28,160 --> 01:16:32,958
It’s just that trying to do the business
1216
01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:35,840
had just become so frustrating.
1217
01:16:51,040 --> 01:16:55,038
The night before our last show was
San Francisco, and it was a great show.
1218
01:16:55,080 --> 01:16:58,158
It was packed. We played
great. The audience was great.
1219
01:16:58,200 --> 01:16:59,118
It was exciting.
1220
01:16:59,160 --> 01:17:02,078
I finished the show and tore
all the strings off my guitar
1221
01:17:02,120 --> 01:17:04,080
in an excited delirium.
1222
01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:12,160
The next day we went to Santa
Clara and the show had been canceled.
1223
01:17:12,440 --> 01:17:14,718
And I thought: that's perfect.
1224
01:17:14,760 --> 01:17:18,398
Our last show was a cancelation,
but really our last show was
1225
01:17:18,440 --> 01:17:22,560
a really good classic Dream Syndicate show.
1226
01:17:45,400 --> 01:17:50,078
The band was, in a sense, just
waiting for him to come back.
1227
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:53,478
I always hoped that I get another
chance to play with him at some point.
1228
01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:57,238
After, you know, losing my
house in Hurricane Katrina
1229
01:17:57,280 --> 01:17:59,640
and moving to Las Vegas.
1230
01:17:59,920 --> 01:18:03,598
Not having, you know, anyone
to play with or hang out here.
1231
01:18:03,640 --> 01:18:05,760
I was depressed and upset.
1232
01:18:09,640 --> 01:18:12,998
There was a festival in Bilbao
called the Walk On Project.
1233
01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:16,200
It's an organization down
there, started by a friend of mine
1234
01:18:16,520 --> 01:18:20,158
to help with the research and
treatment of pediatric diseases.
1235
01:18:20,200 --> 01:18:23,438
And I've done some shows
and recordings for them before.
1236
01:18:23,480 --> 01:18:26,678
And they were having a festival in 2012,
1237
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:31,118
and he asked me if I would be up
for playing there with one of my bands.
1238
01:18:31,160 --> 01:18:34,478
That would mean my solo
band Steve Wynn & The Miracle 3
1239
01:18:34,520 --> 01:18:35,838
or The Baseball Project.
1240
01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:37,518
And neither band could do the show.
1241
01:18:37,560 --> 01:18:39,318
And I really wanted to do the festival.
1242
01:18:39,360 --> 01:18:40,198
So I thought.
1243
01:18:40,240 --> 01:18:44,798
Oh yeah, I have another
band, The Dream Syndicate.
1244
01:18:44,840 --> 01:18:48,438
And of course, we hadn't played a show
in 24 years, but we’re all still friends.
1245
01:18:48,480 --> 01:18:49,518
We talked about it.
1246
01:18:49,560 --> 01:18:51,078
We all agreed it was a good idea.
1247
01:18:51,120 --> 01:18:54,158
When that call came in, I was
very excited to go out and do that.
1248
01:18:54,200 --> 01:18:56,800
And the next issue was
who would play guitar?
1249
01:18:57,280 --> 01:19:00,518
And it wasn't going to be Karl.
1250
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:01,958
I was very aware of that.
1251
01:19:02,000 --> 01:19:04,718
I approached Paul
Cutler, who’s still a friend.
1252
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:07,078
At a certain point in time,
1253
01:19:07,120 --> 01:19:11,438
The Dream Syndicate was
incredibly potent as a live band.
1254
01:19:11,480 --> 01:19:17,600
We would nail your ass
to the ground. We were on.
1255
01:19:18,160 --> 01:19:21,200
And anything short of
that, I'm not interested in it.
1256
01:19:21,560 --> 01:19:25,238
Not to mention it would take
me forever to relearn those songs.
1257
01:19:25,280 --> 01:19:28,160
So the obvious thing at that
point was to ask Jason Victor.
1258
01:19:29,240 --> 01:19:32,118
I moved to New York in ‘94.
1259
01:19:32,160 --> 01:19:34,478
It was important to find
some favorite record stores.
1260
01:19:34,520 --> 01:19:37,238
And there was a store on St Mark's Place.
1261
01:19:37,280 --> 01:19:40,518
And when I would shop
there, this young kid.
1262
01:19:40,560 --> 01:19:44,838
I mean, to me, it seemed like
this kid, working there saying:
1263
01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:47,158
“You're Steve Wynn, I'm
a big fan of your music.”
1264
01:19:47,200 --> 01:19:49,038
So, thank kid!
1265
01:19:49,080 --> 01:19:50,238
And it was Jason.
1266
01:19:50,280 --> 01:19:53,718
Around that time, I'd become
a really big fan of Steve Wynn,
1267
01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:57,118
of his solo career, and
of The Dream Syndicate.
1268
01:19:57,160 --> 01:19:58,878
One day he said: “Hey, I'm a guitarist.
1269
01:19:58,920 --> 01:20:01,838
If you ever want to get
together and jam, I'd love to do it.”
1270
01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:05,558
He probably figured, Well,
I'll just do it once, and maybe
1271
01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:08,758
he'll give me even better deals on my CD’s.
1272
01:20:08,800 --> 01:20:13,320
So we got together for two hours at
a place down in the Lower East Side,
1273
01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:16,958
and when we got there,
I of course found out:
1274
01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:21,238
oh man, this guy is a
really good guitarist.
1275
01:20:21,280 --> 01:20:23,278
And he knows all my songs.
1276
01:20:23,320 --> 01:20:26,358
He came home after that.
1277
01:20:26,400 --> 01:20:31,478
He was like: “I think I may
have found my next guitar player.”
1278
01:20:31,520 --> 01:20:34,478
My biggest dream at that
point was to go on tour.
1279
01:20:34,520 --> 01:20:38,758
I've got a band and a guitarist
right now, but it's good to know
1280
01:20:38,800 --> 01:20:40,360
the record store kid is such a good player.
1281
01:20:47,600 --> 01:20:49,878
His band was about to do a European tour
1282
01:20:49,920 --> 01:20:53,760
and they needed our merch
seller and a driver of the van.
1283
01:20:54,880 --> 01:20:56,518
And I told them.
1284
01:20:56,560 --> 01:21:00,438
Well, obviously I know how to sell
merch from working in the record store.
1285
01:21:00,480 --> 01:21:04,880
And a van, never drove a van
before, never drove stick shift before.
1286
01:21:05,560 --> 01:21:07,238
But I lied and said I can do it.
1287
01:21:07,280 --> 01:21:08,518
Right around this time
1288
01:21:08,560 --> 01:21:10,838
Chris Brokaw contacted me and said:
1289
01:21:10,880 --> 01:21:13,238
“I'm really sorry, but
I can't do the tour.”
1290
01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:15,960
I have another tour at the
same time. I have to do it.
1291
01:21:16,280 --> 01:21:17,918
And then the light bulb went off.
1292
01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:21,118
I know, Jason's already
planning on the tour.
1293
01:21:21,160 --> 01:21:22,880
I'll ask him to play guitar instead.
1294
01:21:42,040 --> 01:21:42,918
You know, you're nervous.
1295
01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:45,278
You're stepping into really big shoes.
1296
01:21:45,320 --> 01:21:47,076
You're stepping into history.
1297
01:21:47,116 --> 01:21:51,116
[rock music]
1298
01:21:55,240 --> 01:21:57,558
He's just incredibly versatile.
1299
01:21:57,600 --> 01:21:59,640
He's a real joy to play with.
1300
01:22:15,760 --> 01:22:19,158
He has a bit of Paul and Karl in him,
1301
01:22:19,200 --> 01:22:22,158
but he's got this other
element that is strictly Jason.
1302
01:22:22,200 --> 01:22:25,318
He's, you know, paying
1303
01:22:25,360 --> 01:22:31,438
the right amount of homage
to the textures and the intensity
1304
01:22:31,480 --> 01:22:34,600
of how the older songs
were played back in the day.
1305
01:22:43,920 --> 01:22:47,798
We've been playing Dream Syndicate
songs with the Miracle 3 for ten years now.
1306
01:22:47,840 --> 01:22:48,958
The funny thing is,
1307
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:52,558
Jason and I both play very differently
once were with Mark and Dennis.
1308
01:22:52,600 --> 01:22:57,480
It's interesting how the rhythm
sections treat the songs differently,
1309
01:22:58,720 --> 01:23:03,080
and so then your own
playing adapts to that.
1310
01:23:03,240 --> 01:23:05,118
So once Jason and I
play with Mark and Dennis,
1311
01:23:05,160 --> 01:23:06,478
it's The Dream Syndicate.
1312
01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:07,878
It's funny how that is.
1313
01:23:07,920 --> 01:23:13,238
Right after we did the first
original reunion shows in Spain,
1314
01:23:13,280 --> 01:23:15,078
people started freaking out.
1315
01:23:15,120 --> 01:23:19,478
They were saying:
“You'll play again? Really?
1316
01:23:19,520 --> 01:23:21,840
How can I get you to play here?”
1317
01:23:23,560 --> 01:23:26,398
Book a show, you know. We'll show up.
1318
01:23:26,440 --> 01:23:30,038
And so we would do that
occasionally here and there.
1319
01:23:30,080 --> 01:23:31,880
And then it just started snowballing.
1320
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:33,720
And we kept doing little things
1321
01:23:34,480 --> 01:23:37,438
with the feeling that
we're a nostalgia band.
1322
01:23:37,480 --> 01:23:39,398
We're happy to be a nostalgia band.
1323
01:23:39,440 --> 01:23:41,198
We're nostalgic too, for God’s sake.
1324
01:23:41,240 --> 01:23:43,118
So let's go out there
and play the old songs
1325
01:23:43,160 --> 01:23:44,600
and make everyone happy and have some fun.
1326
01:23:55,600 --> 01:23:57,278
We kept playing and kept playing,
1327
01:23:57,320 --> 01:24:00,918
until we realized, okay,
we can only do this so long.
1328
01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:03,078
You know, we need to evolve.
1329
01:24:03,120 --> 01:24:06,878
We need to make a record or
something to justify us being a band.
1330
01:24:06,920 --> 01:24:08,718
Otherwise we're an oldie band
1331
01:24:08,760 --> 01:24:12,718
and I don't want to be an oldie
band member if I can avoid it.
1332
01:24:12,760 --> 01:24:18,118
Steve was writing new material,
so that allowed us to move out
1333
01:24:18,160 --> 01:24:22,758
of the stage of just playing
old songs, into a newer period.
1334
01:24:22,800 --> 01:24:26,758
Well, let's see what it would be
like to record a record for the fun of it.
1335
01:24:26,800 --> 01:24:29,680
Let's see how it turns out. Low pressure.
1336
01:24:36,080 --> 01:24:39,198
We booked some time in the
studio in Richmond, Virginia.
1337
01:24:39,240 --> 01:24:41,364
The studio where I worked quite
a bit, called Montrose Recording.
1338
01:24:41,404 --> 01:24:41,960
[rock music]
1339
01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:43,078
And I felt like, we'll go down there
1340
01:24:43,120 --> 01:24:46,320
for five days, do our thing,
hang out, have some fun.
1341
01:24:48,120 --> 01:24:50,478
And I thought maybe it
would be good to have,
1342
01:24:50,520 --> 01:24:53,998
if not a producer, at least
somebody in the control room
1343
01:24:54,040 --> 01:24:56,598
who knows us, who has an objective opinion,
1344
01:24:56,640 --> 01:24:59,798
who isn't me being the
bandleader and being the boss.
1345
01:24:59,840 --> 01:25:02,958
But somebody who can
kind of be our our guide.
1346
01:25:03,000 --> 01:25:05,518
And I thought the perfect person
to do that would be Chris Cacavas.
1347
01:25:05,560 --> 01:25:10,598
He wanted me to be sort
of his Brian Eno to his Bowie,
1348
01:25:10,640 --> 01:25:11,438
and I liked that.
1349
01:25:11,480 --> 01:25:13,800
I'm like, okay, I can live with this role.
1350
01:25:18,160 --> 01:25:19,758
One thing we found
when we went in the studio
1351
01:25:19,800 --> 01:25:21,158
to make that record, was
1352
01:25:21,200 --> 01:25:24,118
not only we can
1353
01:25:24,160 --> 01:25:28,878
justify our existence,
not only can we somehow
1354
01:25:28,920 --> 01:25:31,198
approximate what it was that
people loved about the band,
1355
01:25:31,240 --> 01:25:35,478
but even better, we're a new band
that does new things in a new way.
1356
01:25:35,520 --> 01:25:40,440
We came together and each
person was like a gear in the machine.
1357
01:25:40,760 --> 01:25:43,518
Again, but differently.
1358
01:25:43,560 --> 01:25:46,080
And it all fit together. It was great.
1359
01:26:04,709 --> 01:26:08,709
[rock music]
1360
01:26:31,400 --> 01:26:34,438
Jason knowing so much
about my musical history
1361
01:26:34,480 --> 01:26:35,958
and about The Dream Syndicate.
1362
01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:40,078
He had his feelings about
this is good, this is bad.
1363
01:26:40,120 --> 01:26:42,438
First and foremost,
1364
01:26:42,480 --> 01:26:44,478
I'm a fan of the band.
1365
01:26:44,520 --> 01:26:49,078
And sometimes I think
that gets on the guy's nerves,
1366
01:26:49,120 --> 01:26:52,558
because I go: “This is not up to snuff” or
1367
01:26:52,600 --> 01:26:54,638
“Nah, The Dream
Syndicate wouldn’t do this.”
1368
01:26:54,680 --> 01:26:58,318
Within the context of
a band that is already
1369
01:26:58,360 --> 01:27:02,798
rather experimental and rather open to
1370
01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:04,918
improvised ideas.
1371
01:27:04,960 --> 01:27:09,718
Jason is a guy who took
it even one step further.
1372
01:27:09,760 --> 01:27:11,278
He's like: “No, I'm not going to play that.
1373
01:27:11,320 --> 01:27:12,918
That's the obvious thing to play.
1374
01:27:12,960 --> 01:27:14,160
And I'm not going to play that.”
1375
01:27:54,880 --> 01:27:58,398
If we play How Did I Find Myself
Here?, I think once a day in the studio,
1376
01:27:58,440 --> 01:28:00,078
which kind of along with the other songs.
1377
01:28:00,120 --> 01:28:04,478
We would play fast, slow,
twenty minutes, seven minutes,
1378
01:28:04,520 --> 01:28:07,838
whatever, every kind of
version, just to have fun with it.
1379
01:28:07,880 --> 01:28:11,518
And one of the days we were playing
it and really got into the groove of it,
1380
01:28:11,560 --> 01:28:13,118
Chris was in the control room.
1381
01:28:13,160 --> 01:28:16,520
Dennis Duck was playing
this sort of trip hop beat.
1382
01:28:17,720 --> 01:28:21,000
And it sounded, I heard this
sort of funky vibe in there.
1383
01:28:21,760 --> 01:28:25,120
And then I thought to myself: oh,
I think I might have a part for this.
1384
01:28:26,480 --> 01:28:30,318
So between takes, I
asked the engineer Adrian
1385
01:28:30,360 --> 01:28:35,358
to hook up the old Wurlitzer
piano that was in the control room.
1386
01:28:35,400 --> 01:28:38,038
So now I'm ready to play with the band.
1387
01:28:38,080 --> 01:28:39,118
But they can't hear me.
1388
01:28:39,160 --> 01:28:43,958
But I'm just jamming along with them
and having a blast, you know, just trying
1389
01:28:44,000 --> 01:28:48,200
to find this sort of funky vibe that
would fit to what they were doing.
1390
01:28:49,800 --> 01:28:53,480
So finally they come in to hear
what they did. What they did.
1391
01:28:54,200 --> 01:28:57,840
And then they hear my keyboard
track, which I didn't tell them about.
1392
01:28:58,440 --> 01:29:01,918
And Adrian puts it up in the mix
and they're like: what the heck is that?
1393
01:29:01,960 --> 01:29:06,438
That sounds amazing! How? Where
do these keyboards come from?
1394
01:29:06,480 --> 01:29:08,678
Chris, you're playing along the whole time?
1395
01:29:08,720 --> 01:29:10,278
And I said: “Surprise!”
1396
01:29:10,320 --> 01:29:13,840
I think we were all
surprised by how it turned out.
1397
01:29:14,320 --> 01:29:16,518
It's what you dream about, you know?
1398
01:29:16,560 --> 01:29:20,118
It's when you're playing live, you
hope it's going to sound that good.
1399
01:29:20,160 --> 01:29:23,958
The blend of the shorter songs
and always one or two long songs
1400
01:29:24,000 --> 01:29:26,078
where we get freaky and
where anything can happen.
1401
01:29:26,120 --> 01:29:27,638
That's who we are.
1402
01:29:27,680 --> 01:29:30,198
And the long song was always Coltrane
1403
01:29:30,240 --> 01:29:31,238
or Days of Wine and Roses.
1404
01:29:31,280 --> 01:29:33,718
Suddenly we had How did I Find Myself Here?
1405
01:29:33,760 --> 01:29:35,518
And that was maybe the
best song of all of them.
1406
01:29:35,560 --> 01:29:36,520
We got to do that.
1407
01:29:50,647 --> 01:29:54,647
[rock music]
1408
01:30:03,560 --> 01:30:05,318
Eventually I was asked to become
1409
01:30:05,360 --> 01:30:09,678
the fifth member, the fifth
Beatle of The Dream Syndicate.
1410
01:30:09,720 --> 01:30:13,518
When we finished, How Did I Find Myself
Here?, when that record was done and mixed
1411
01:30:13,560 --> 01:30:16,038
and ready to be released, we
knew we were a five piece band.
1412
01:30:16,080 --> 01:30:20,358
I think that record really sets up
1413
01:30:20,400 --> 01:30:23,318
an entirely new era
1414
01:30:23,360 --> 01:30:27,878
for him as a writer and
as a collaborator with,
1415
01:30:27,920 --> 01:30:31,518
you know, musicians that he's known
1416
01:30:31,560 --> 01:30:33,518
most of his life, if not all of his life.
1417
01:30:33,560 --> 01:30:36,638
I feel like How Did I Find
Myself Here? was a debut album.
1418
01:30:36,680 --> 01:30:38,518
It was a debut with a new band.
1419
01:30:38,560 --> 01:30:40,038
And we went back to make the second record.
1420
01:30:40,080 --> 01:30:41,880
Second records were always hard.
1421
01:30:46,720 --> 01:30:48,718
We were, I think, kind of figuring out
1422
01:30:48,760 --> 01:30:51,638
how to be The Dream Syndicate of old,
1423
01:30:51,680 --> 01:30:53,638
Dream Syndicate of How
Did I Find Myself Here?
1424
01:30:53,680 --> 01:30:55,558
Dream Syndicate we
were developing into being.
1425
01:30:55,600 --> 01:30:57,558
It was a lot of growing
pains on that record.
1426
01:30:57,600 --> 01:31:00,798
And I'll be honest, it wasn't
always the most fun record to make.
1427
01:31:00,840 --> 01:31:02,758
You know, you did the first record,
1428
01:31:02,800 --> 01:31:05,038
How Did I Find Myself Here? and then,
1429
01:31:05,080 --> 01:31:10,000
and people had a really
favorable reaction to it.
1430
01:31:10,720 --> 01:31:14,758
And I felt like, well, what
if this one just falls flat?
1431
01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:18,320
There is, I felt more pressure for
some reason on that second record.
1432
01:31:54,440 --> 01:31:59,038
It was a good group effort,
because everyone contributed
1433
01:31:59,080 --> 01:32:04,718
and we we hadn't really
worked that way fully before.
1434
01:32:04,760 --> 01:32:07,798
So it was very satisfying artistically.
1435
01:32:07,840 --> 01:32:10,118
When we know we're
going to go record a record.
1436
01:32:10,160 --> 01:32:13,318
It’s insane, the back and
forths with the four of us.
1437
01:32:13,360 --> 01:32:17,358
Steve loves to send thousands
of emails, you know, into it.
1438
01:32:17,400 --> 01:32:22,918
Listen to this, this record
from whoever, Miles Davis.
1439
01:32:22,960 --> 01:32:25,958
And like this is kind of what I'm thinking.
Check this out.
1440
01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:28,238
This is what we make
should make a record of.
1441
01:32:28,280 --> 01:32:33,958
It's like a North African, you know,
weird music and some really great grooves.
1442
01:32:34,000 --> 01:32:36,278
And he would send this stuff
and I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1443
01:32:36,320 --> 01:32:37,558
That's a good idea.
1444
01:32:37,600 --> 01:32:43,038
You know, you get to the actual recording
and sort of all those ideas fall away.
1445
01:32:43,080 --> 01:32:45,958
None of them actually is
what These Times sound like,
1446
01:32:46,000 --> 01:32:49,078
but they're just ideas he
was just into at the moment.
1447
01:32:49,120 --> 01:32:54,080
And so he'd like to share those
types of ideas with the band members.
1448
01:33:22,240 --> 01:33:24,918
Stephen McCarthy lives
in Richmond, Virginia.
1449
01:33:24,960 --> 01:33:28,798
He's a native of the city. So he
lives two miles from the studio.
1450
01:33:28,840 --> 01:33:32,838
So Steve calls me up at
the end of the recording
1451
01:33:32,880 --> 01:33:36,998
of These Times and says: “Hey,
why don't you come by like 10:00?”
1452
01:33:37,040 --> 01:33:38,760
We're going to have
dinner, we'll have a drink.
1453
01:33:39,200 --> 01:33:41,760
And we're cracking that
first beer at 11, 11:30.
1454
01:33:42,440 --> 01:33:44,398
And we said: “Wait a
second. What are we doing?
1455
01:33:44,440 --> 01:33:47,398
We're sitting here on
a porch drinking beer.
1456
01:33:47,440 --> 01:33:48,838
There's a recording studio there.”
1457
01:33:48,880 --> 01:33:50,438
So we go out in the studio.
1458
01:33:50,480 --> 01:33:53,518
Everything's already mic’d up.
The guitar amps are on. The piano.
1459
01:33:53,560 --> 01:33:54,318
Everything's going.
1460
01:33:54,360 --> 01:33:56,640
We start playing
together and it feels great.
1461
01:34:01,680 --> 01:34:03,598
Not a word is said about,
1462
01:34:03,640 --> 01:34:05,478
all right, we're going to play this style.
1463
01:34:05,520 --> 01:34:07,318
We're going to play in this key.
1464
01:34:07,360 --> 01:34:08,078
Nothing.
1465
01:34:08,120 --> 01:34:09,560
Twenty minutes go by and we're kind of,
1466
01:34:10,640 --> 01:34:11,798
you know, when things are going well,
1467
01:34:11,840 --> 01:34:13,598
we're looking at each
other from across the room.
1468
01:34:13,640 --> 01:34:14,918
Yeah, this is great.
1469
01:34:14,960 --> 01:34:17,718
At that point, everybody had had
1470
01:34:17,760 --> 01:34:22,000
a fair amount to drink, you know,
so there's a different vibe going on.
1471
01:34:22,480 --> 01:34:26,998
I think we were just releasing,
you know, energy that we'd
1472
01:34:27,040 --> 01:34:30,920
been kind of saving up during, you know,
when we were just working on the songs.
1473
01:34:40,520 --> 01:34:43,918
And we played, you know, a good long time.
1474
01:34:43,960 --> 01:34:46,798
And I got up and everyone
was like: where are you going?
1475
01:34:46,840 --> 01:34:49,598
I just ran into the house,
grabbed a bottle of tequila,
1476
01:34:49,640 --> 01:34:51,278
a bunch of glasses, poured it out.
1477
01:34:51,320 --> 01:34:52,318
Hey, Mark’s got tequila.
1478
01:34:52,360 --> 01:34:55,838
So, strum strum, shot,
boom, thanks, strum strum.
1479
01:34:55,880 --> 01:34:57,638
And he goes around and
picks up the bass again.
1480
01:34:57,680 --> 01:35:00,038
So we never stopped even in
those kind of seven minutes.
1481
01:35:00,080 --> 01:35:03,398
We played for about an hour and a half,
1482
01:35:03,440 --> 01:35:07,798
just continuous, and the
songs morphed into other songs.
1483
01:35:07,840 --> 01:35:10,318
Somebody would play a
riff, we'd follow that riff.
1484
01:35:10,360 --> 01:35:14,398
We just keep jamming and
navigating, having this conversation.
1485
01:35:14,440 --> 01:35:17,758
Everyone wanted to keep it going,
until we were going to drop dead.
1486
01:35:17,800 --> 01:35:20,718
It's like, this is great. This is
what you dream of as a musician.
1487
01:35:20,760 --> 01:35:23,598
Seriously, it's like
that kind of excitement.
1488
01:35:23,640 --> 01:35:26,438
And we end up with this ninety
minute, unbroken piece of music.
1489
01:35:26,480 --> 01:35:28,000
And then we collapse.
1490
01:35:37,080 --> 01:35:39,438
The next day we come in the studio
1491
01:35:39,480 --> 01:35:42,140
and John Agnello, who’s engineered the
1492
01:35:42,161 --> 01:35:45,478
record and been my
main guy for 25 years now,
1493
01:35:45,520 --> 01:35:48,318
he's already listening to the music
we've done from the previous night.
1494
01:35:48,360 --> 01:35:51,718
He went: “You know
what, this could be a song.”
1495
01:35:51,760 --> 01:35:54,718
And so he would cut it and
say, here's a separate entity.
1496
01:35:54,760 --> 01:35:56,598
And he presented it to us.
1497
01:35:56,640 --> 01:35:59,118
”You know, I just made
separate files for each of these
1498
01:35:59,160 --> 01:36:01,838
and think they sounded
like separate songs to me.”
1499
01:36:01,880 --> 01:36:05,720
We listened back and thought, wow!
1500
01:36:06,240 --> 01:36:07,838
I don't know what we can do with this.
1501
01:36:07,880 --> 01:36:09,478
And I even tried for a while
1502
01:36:09,520 --> 01:36:12,520
to put words to some of the
pieces to put on These Times.
1503
01:36:13,400 --> 01:36:16,318
I'll take those 5 minutes
and make a song out of it.
1504
01:36:16,360 --> 01:36:18,360
But nothing was quite as right.
1505
01:36:19,240 --> 01:36:21,598
I don't know, out of context.
1506
01:36:21,640 --> 01:36:22,960
So nothing I used.
1507
01:36:30,760 --> 01:36:33,678
I would lay down every
night and before I go to bed
1508
01:36:33,720 --> 01:36:36,878
I put my headphones on and
I would listen to the full jam.
1509
01:36:36,920 --> 01:36:40,360
It was something that made
me at peace and I really enjoyed.
1510
01:36:40,880 --> 01:36:44,878
It wasn't until a few months later
that Steve admitted he was doing
1511
01:36:44,920 --> 01:36:46,158
basically the same thing.
1512
01:36:46,200 --> 01:36:48,638
I was taking a flight, I
remember, from Paris to Berlin
1513
01:36:48,680 --> 01:36:51,638
and listened to the whole thing,
looking out the window of the plane.
1514
01:36:51,680 --> 01:36:54,560
Maybe a little hung over, maybe
looking at the clouds passing by.
1515
01:36:54,960 --> 01:36:58,398
And all I could think
was, this is really good.
1516
01:36:58,440 --> 01:37:00,478
And from that point on, I kind of made it
1517
01:37:00,520 --> 01:37:02,840
my obsession to somehow
make a record out of that.
1518
01:37:09,920 --> 01:37:11,678
I went back down to Richmond
1519
01:37:11,720 --> 01:37:17,798
for five days to take this sprawling
mess of a jam and try new things.
1520
01:37:17,840 --> 01:37:20,078
And I worked hand in
hand with Adrian Olson,
1521
01:37:20,120 --> 01:37:23,118
who is the engineer there, runs the studio.
1522
01:37:23,160 --> 01:37:25,160
And he and I tried different things out.
1523
01:37:25,520 --> 01:37:27,038
Stephen McCarthy came down.
1524
01:37:27,080 --> 01:37:28,758
I helped Steve with
some of the arrangements.
1525
01:37:28,800 --> 01:37:32,160
Maybe like, you know, where
do we think the horn would go?
1526
01:37:32,640 --> 01:37:36,278
And I think I played some
sitar on a couple of songs.
1527
01:37:36,320 --> 01:37:41,038
At one point I was thinking: oh,
some horns might be nice on this.
1528
01:37:41,080 --> 01:37:44,278
And Adrian said: “There's a guy
in town named Marcus Tenney.
1529
01:37:44,320 --> 01:37:48,120
He understands playing
improvization and responding.”
1530
01:37:48,280 --> 01:37:52,078
He just set up and
played this 20 minute piece
1531
01:37:52,120 --> 01:37:55,598
and just, you know, played that
great stuff you hear on the record.
1532
01:37:55,640 --> 01:37:56,520
Incredible.
1533
01:38:19,880 --> 01:38:21,558
I was walking around New York City one day
1534
01:38:21,600 --> 01:38:26,318
and I kind of had an idea of how
I wanted to do vocals for the song.
1535
01:38:26,360 --> 01:38:30,760
I thought, you know, if I do it
kind of in a lower spoken thing.
1536
01:38:32,800 --> 01:38:37,760
So I rushed home and I got up
to my home recording system.
1537
01:38:38,840 --> 01:38:42,518
And I remember having my little
cheap microphone and I said, you know,
1538
01:38:42,560 --> 01:38:45,518
just so I can get the idea down, I
want to get the idea of this voice,
1539
01:38:45,560 --> 01:38:47,798
I want to have on the song.
I don't know what to sing,
1540
01:38:47,840 --> 01:38:50,238
but I'll look at my lyric
idea I have on my phone.
1541
01:38:50,280 --> 01:38:52,358
So I got my phone here in
one hand, the microphone,
1542
01:38:52,400 --> 01:38:55,078
the microphone and the
harmonica in another hand.
1543
01:38:55,120 --> 01:38:57,318
And the computer song running.
1544
01:38:57,360 --> 01:39:01,878
And I say, I'm going to recite all
these random lyrics and titles I have.
1545
01:39:01,920 --> 01:39:05,998
So I'm kind of like hearing The
Regulator, listening and scrolling
1546
01:39:06,040 --> 01:39:07,478
the phone, you know?
1547
01:39:07,520 --> 01:39:11,120
Have you heard? Have You Heard
was just a song title, you know.
1548
01:39:12,200 --> 01:39:14,798
You know, Dusting Off The
Rust. All these little things
1549
01:39:14,840 --> 01:39:16,440
just to get the voice recorded.
1550
01:39:17,680 --> 01:39:18,960
. That's the vocal on the record.
1551
01:39:36,036 --> 01:39:40,036
[rock music]
1552
01:39:45,960 --> 01:39:48,318
I said: “Steve, what did
you do to your voice?”
1553
01:39:48,360 --> 01:39:50,200
He said: “I just sang low.”
1554
01:39:50,560 --> 01:39:53,080
I said: “What? You didn't
pitch shift it or anything?”
1555
01:39:53,480 --> 01:39:54,678
I said: “How did you do that?”
1556
01:39:54,720 --> 01:39:55,678
He's like: “I can do that.”
1557
01:39:55,720 --> 01:39:57,398
I'm like: what?
1558
01:39:57,440 --> 01:39:58,638
I was floored.
1559
01:39:58,680 --> 01:40:01,038
This was so amazing to me.
1560
01:40:01,080 --> 01:40:04,078
This was like, this is the record that
1561
01:40:04,120 --> 01:40:06,438
I think I wanted to make from the get go.
1562
01:40:06,480 --> 01:40:09,598
If you can get an artist to do something
1563
01:40:09,640 --> 01:40:13,360
and they don't know that they're
doing it, that's some magic right there.
1564
01:40:30,720 --> 01:40:35,158
It's a record unlike anything
else in their discography,
1565
01:40:35,200 --> 01:40:38,438
but it's based on everything
they've always done.
1566
01:40:38,480 --> 01:40:40,200
Which is improvise,
1567
01:40:41,160 --> 01:40:44,198
improvise together as a unit,
1568
01:40:44,240 --> 01:40:47,758
as a bonded unit, and then
being able to form songs
1569
01:40:47,800 --> 01:40:50,998
and coherent ideas
1570
01:40:51,040 --> 01:40:53,998
that can then be extended and expanded.
1571
01:40:54,040 --> 01:40:55,678
It's really a remarkable record.
1572
01:40:55,720 --> 01:40:59,718
It's definitely the kind of thing
that will put you in a trance.
1573
01:40:59,760 --> 01:41:02,478
You know, turn off whatever other devices
1574
01:41:02,520 --> 01:41:05,878
you've got going at
the time and just ride it,
1575
01:41:05,920 --> 01:41:09,520
because it will take you
places you have not been before.
1576
01:41:47,800 --> 01:41:49,798
We hadn't seen each other,
1577
01:41:49,840 --> 01:41:53,678
let alone played music together
in a year, almost a year and a half.
1578
01:41:53,720 --> 01:41:57,878
When we show up at the
studio, we were raring to go.
1579
01:41:57,920 --> 01:42:00,480
We were itching to play.
1580
01:42:01,960 --> 01:42:04,158
And I think on this session
we just had a good time.
1581
01:42:04,200 --> 01:42:06,358
We just played music,
we had a lot of laughs,
1582
01:42:06,400 --> 01:42:08,198
we had a lot of fun eating together.
1583
01:42:08,240 --> 01:42:10,078
It felt natural to be together again.
1584
01:42:10,120 --> 01:42:11,400
It was fantastic.
1585
01:42:11,720 --> 01:42:13,158
As much as These Times
1586
01:42:13,200 --> 01:42:17,478
was one of the more difficult ones,
this one was so much fun to make.
1587
01:42:17,520 --> 01:42:19,358
It felt easy, felt effortless.
1588
01:42:19,400 --> 01:42:22,478
The one song I had written for
the new album is the opening song
1589
01:42:22,520 --> 01:42:23,598
Where I'll Stand.
1590
01:42:23,640 --> 01:42:25,758
I said, this is a new song.
1591
01:42:25,800 --> 01:42:27,038
Here are the chords. Let's go.
1592
01:42:27,080 --> 01:42:33,278
The version the first time we'd played
together in all that time, on a new song,
1593
01:42:33,320 --> 01:42:34,478
that's the opening of the album.
1594
01:42:34,520 --> 01:42:36,840
Take one is the one we used. Just one take.
1595
01:42:37,200 --> 01:42:40,600
We kind of laughed and
said: “Oh, pretty good.”
1596
01:42:57,280 --> 01:43:00,678
The first song is called Where I'll Stand.
1597
01:43:00,720 --> 01:43:05,518
And that record is exactly
where he's standing.
1598
01:43:05,560 --> 01:43:10,478
And to have a band like this continue
1599
01:43:10,520 --> 01:43:14,398
to inspire me, that means a lot
because I need that strength as well.
1600
01:43:14,440 --> 01:43:16,918
I don't think we ever
think in terms anymore of
1601
01:43:16,960 --> 01:43:19,038
give me a three minute pop
song and get the hell out of here.
1602
01:43:19,080 --> 01:43:24,638
But more like just drift off for a second,
for ten seconds, for ten hours, whatever.
1603
01:43:24,680 --> 01:43:27,118
But let yourself go.
1604
01:43:27,160 --> 01:43:28,960
And this record is another
way yourself go record.
1605
01:43:58,440 --> 01:44:01,323
So if you ask me, where are The
Dream Syndicate going to go next?
1606
01:44:01,363 --> 01:44:02,480
[rock music]
1607
01:44:02,520 --> 01:44:05,640
I can give you an answer, but I
can guarantee you I'd be wrong.
1608
01:44:06,320 --> 01:44:10,798
Because Steve and the rest of the
guys, they never repeat themselves.
1609
01:44:10,840 --> 01:44:12,998
I don't think we've done
everything yet we can do.
1610
01:44:13,040 --> 01:44:15,718
You know, I think we've, even
with the four records we've made
1611
01:44:15,760 --> 01:44:19,078
in the last five years, which
is really something anyway.
1612
01:44:19,120 --> 01:44:23,438
We have a lot left that we
can do with the same people.
1613
01:44:23,480 --> 01:44:24,718
We want to keep going.
1614
01:44:24,760 --> 01:44:26,038
We want to keep pushing forward
1615
01:44:26,080 --> 01:44:29,838
and doing new things, surprising
ourselves, surprising our fans.
1616
01:44:29,880 --> 01:44:35,478
I think if this band still is having as
much fun together as we have, then
1617
01:44:35,520 --> 01:44:38,118
I don't see why we would stop that.
1618
01:44:38,160 --> 01:44:39,518
I don't see why we would give that up.
1619
01:44:39,560 --> 01:44:42,158
If I can play to the day I die, I will.
1620
01:44:42,200 --> 01:44:47,118
My greatest hope for Steve and The Dream
Syndicate in the future is don't quit.
1621
01:44:47,160 --> 01:44:50,878
I still haven't had enough
and I don't think you're done.
1622
01:44:50,920 --> 01:44:54,078
When I first started playing music
1623
01:44:54,120 --> 01:44:58,118
and making records, all I could think
about was; how can I keep this going?
1624
01:44:58,160 --> 01:44:59,918
I don't want this dream to end.
1625
01:44:59,960 --> 01:45:02,478
And that's the biggest change now,
is I don't worry about that anymore,
1626
01:45:02,520 --> 01:45:04,760
because the dream won't end.
1627
01:45:37,702 --> 01:45:41,702
[rock music]
133483
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