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I was doing emergency coverage
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at Mendota
Mental Health Institute.
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I was on the ward,
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00:00:48,799 --> 00:00:51,677
and one of the nurses said,
"Have you met Ed Gein?"
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00:00:51,761 --> 00:00:53,596
I said, "No, I haven't."
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00:00:53,679 --> 00:00:55,765
She said,
"Well, let me introduce you."
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I knew that he had murdered
two people...
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00:01:03,773 --> 00:01:08,694
in this tiny town
in the middle of Wisconsin.
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Then I learned all the other
things that he had done.
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00:01:15,910 --> 00:01:19,747
Make lampshades
out of human skin,
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00:01:19,830 --> 00:01:24,210
take skulls and make soup bowls
out of them,
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00:01:24,293 --> 00:01:29,173
and had a tremendous number
of things that he did
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00:01:29,256 --> 00:01:31,759
that were kind of macabre.
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00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:50,277
He knew
that they had made a movie.
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00:01:57,535 --> 00:02:03,916
The comparison between the two
of them was so right on
16
00:02:03,999 --> 00:02:07,253
that it was very, very scary.
17
00:02:11,507 --> 00:02:13,132
But I was interested.
18
00:02:13,217 --> 00:02:15,386
I've always been curious.
19
00:02:15,469 --> 00:02:18,597
That's been my downfall.
20
00:03:03,517 --> 00:03:05,352
You know, over the years,
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00:03:05,436 --> 00:03:07,897
when these movies would come out
about Ed Gein,
22
00:03:07,980 --> 00:03:12,526
I never was really interested
because we lived the fact.
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00:03:14,403 --> 00:03:16,780
It's a terrible thing
for Ed Gein,
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00:03:16,864 --> 00:03:19,325
it's a terrible thing
for the people involved,
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00:03:19,408 --> 00:03:20,701
and it was a terrible thing
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00:03:20,784 --> 00:03:22,620
for the whole community
of Plainfield.
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00:03:26,874 --> 00:03:30,628
Why Ed Gein done what he done,
I don't know.
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00:03:30,711 --> 00:03:33,505
It's just too bad
that the whole thing happened.
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00:03:33,589 --> 00:03:35,215
Don't know what to call him.
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00:03:35,299 --> 00:03:37,635
I don't know if he was deranged
or if he was insane.
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00:03:40,721 --> 00:03:43,807
I'm not proud to connect my dad
with Ed Gein.
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00:03:44,433 --> 00:03:48,395
But I'm proud of the way
he handled the case
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00:03:48,479 --> 00:03:52,399
and that things were handled
the way they were handled.
34
00:04:36,110 --> 00:04:37,778
I once made a movie,
35
00:04:37,861 --> 00:04:40,698
rather tongue-in-cheek,
called Psycho.
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00:04:45,869 --> 00:04:48,038
A lot of people looked at
this thing and said,
37
00:04:48,122 --> 00:04:51,500
"What a dreadful thing to do,"
"How awful," and so forth.
38
00:04:51,583 --> 00:04:52,918
But, of course, to me,
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00:04:53,002 --> 00:04:56,588
it had great elements
of the cinema in it.
40
00:04:59,550 --> 00:05:01,427
Psycho originally appealed
41
00:05:01,510 --> 00:05:03,012
to one of Hitchcock's
assistants,
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00:05:03,095 --> 00:05:05,514
who placed the novel
in front of Hitchcock and said,
43
00:05:05,597 --> 00:05:06,807
"Let's do this next, boss."
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00:05:08,433 --> 00:05:11,311
We all enjoy, shall we say,
45
00:05:11,395 --> 00:05:15,399
putting our toe
in the cold water of fear.
46
00:05:19,695 --> 00:05:22,990
Hitchcock had just
made North by Northwest.
47
00:05:23,574 --> 00:05:26,702
And what came after this was
The Birds.
48
00:05:30,456 --> 00:05:33,333
Psycho is a kind of outlier
for Hitchcock in many ways.
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00:05:33,417 --> 00:05:35,919
First of all, of course,
it's much more of a horror film
50
00:05:36,003 --> 00:05:38,964
compared to the suspense that
he typically is associated with.
51
00:05:40,841 --> 00:05:43,427
Possibly what drew
Hitchcock to Psycho
52
00:05:43,510 --> 00:05:46,889
was the idea that this was
an American
53
00:05:46,972 --> 00:05:49,558
small-town horror story.
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00:05:53,896 --> 00:05:55,582
I think he was so attracted
55
00:05:55,606 --> 00:05:57,066
to this material in general
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00:05:57,149 --> 00:06:00,110
because he was interested
in what makes a character tick
57
00:06:00,194 --> 00:06:01,862
and how we can understand
a character
58
00:06:01,945 --> 00:06:03,781
via that character's psychology.
59
00:06:10,454 --> 00:06:14,416
The name of Ed Gein
means return of memories,
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00:06:14,500 --> 00:06:16,960
memories that many
have been trying to forget.
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00:06:21,590 --> 00:06:24,009
Hitchcock attempted
to get financing
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00:06:24,093 --> 00:06:25,844
through his studio for this,
63
00:06:25,928 --> 00:06:28,722
and the studio pushed it away,
rejected it, and said,
64
00:06:28,806 --> 00:06:31,391
"You can't make this film.
This is not what we want."
65
00:06:32,601 --> 00:06:34,019
And so what Hitchcock did
66
00:06:34,103 --> 00:06:36,480
was enforce the terms
of his contract,
67
00:06:36,563 --> 00:06:39,525
which gave him creative control
over even big questions like,
68
00:06:39,608 --> 00:06:42,402
"Okay.
What film are we doing next?"
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00:06:42,486 --> 00:06:46,698
You have to remember
that this process of frightening
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00:06:46,782 --> 00:06:50,702
is done by means
of a given medium,
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00:06:50,786 --> 00:06:52,996
the medium of pure cinema.
72
00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,049
Hitchcock used his TV crew,
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00:07:04,133 --> 00:07:07,469
not his film crew, to make this.
74
00:07:07,886 --> 00:07:09,555
And that's part of the reason
75
00:07:09,638 --> 00:07:11,223
why the film's
in black and white
76
00:07:11,306 --> 00:07:14,601
when his previous films had been
in color.
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00:07:14,977 --> 00:07:17,938
He was using the tools
that his TV crew knew best
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00:07:18,021 --> 00:07:19,148
to make this film.
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00:07:25,612 --> 00:07:29,116
That's one really interesting
thing about Psycho.
80
00:07:29,199 --> 00:07:32,161
Of course, at that time,
black and white
81
00:07:32,244 --> 00:07:34,788
is still a little bit more
associated with realism
82
00:07:34,872 --> 00:07:35,956
than color film, right?
83
00:07:36,039 --> 00:07:37,875
Because color has
this long history
84
00:07:37,958 --> 00:07:40,460
of being used
as something of fantasy.
85
00:07:41,003 --> 00:07:42,754
Think about The Wizard of Oz.
86
00:07:42,838 --> 00:07:44,548
When Dorothy goes to Oz,
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00:07:44,631 --> 00:07:46,151
all of a sudden,
everything's in color.
88
00:07:46,216 --> 00:07:48,260
We still kind of have those
associations
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00:07:48,343 --> 00:07:52,097
with black and white
versus color by 1960.
90
00:07:52,181 --> 00:07:55,142
We don't think of Psycho
as, like, a realism,
91
00:07:55,225 --> 00:07:57,102
realistic kind of movie.
92
00:07:57,186 --> 00:08:00,105
But the use of that particular
kind of film stock
93
00:08:00,189 --> 00:08:04,193
actually places it much more
in the realm of lived experience
94
00:08:04,276 --> 00:08:05,861
and of the world.
95
00:08:05,944 --> 00:08:10,282
The assembly of pieces of film
to create fright
96
00:08:10,365 --> 00:08:13,952
is the essential part of my job,
97
00:08:14,035 --> 00:08:18,164
just as much as a painter would,
98
00:08:18,248 --> 00:08:21,043
by putting certain colors
together,
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00:08:21,126 --> 00:08:24,046
create evil on canvas.
100
00:08:28,175 --> 00:08:30,510
Well, I-I run the office
101
00:08:30,594 --> 00:08:33,305
and, tend the cabins
and grounds and...
102
00:08:33,388 --> 00:08:35,807
And do little, errands
for my mother.
103
00:08:35,891 --> 00:08:39,686
I think the first time I saw
Psycho, I was a teenager.
104
00:08:39,770 --> 00:08:41,104
I think I was about 15.
105
00:08:41,188 --> 00:08:43,023
And it scared
the living daylights out of me.
106
00:08:43,106 --> 00:08:44,733
I was absolutely terrified.
107
00:08:44,816 --> 00:08:46,902
I mean, it was
just absolute terror.
108
00:08:49,071 --> 00:08:53,075
The movie signals something
about this interest in violence,
109
00:08:53,158 --> 00:08:55,035
this interest in the kind
of perversions
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00:08:55,118 --> 00:08:57,287
underneath the placid surface.
111
00:08:57,371 --> 00:09:00,958
Sometimes when she talks to me
like that,
112
00:09:01,041 --> 00:09:02,668
I feel I'd like to go up there.
113
00:09:02,751 --> 00:09:05,003
This is
a shot that is so famous,
114
00:09:05,087 --> 00:09:06,546
and many people
turn to this shot
115
00:09:06,630 --> 00:09:08,006
when they're talking about
Psycho.
116
00:09:08,090 --> 00:09:10,926
And that's because this is
a really, really great
117
00:09:11,009 --> 00:09:13,762
low angle here
where we see Norman Bates.
118
00:09:13,845 --> 00:09:16,014
Something's very, very wrong.
119
00:09:16,098 --> 00:09:18,100
Something's wrong
in Norman's psychology.
120
00:09:18,183 --> 00:09:19,893
All is not what it seems.
121
00:09:19,977 --> 00:09:22,288
And this is the scene where
Norman says something equivalent
122
00:09:22,312 --> 00:09:26,191
to, "A boy's best friend
is his mother."
123
00:09:26,275 --> 00:09:27,859
One of the things
that we can see
124
00:09:27,943 --> 00:09:31,613
as Hitchcock's career progresses
is that he really uses
125
00:09:31,697 --> 00:09:34,658
a lot of these kind of
psychoanalytic approaches
126
00:09:34,741 --> 00:09:36,994
and approaches
to character psychology.
127
00:09:37,077 --> 00:09:40,622
And that was part of what
made it such a raging success.
128
00:09:54,052 --> 00:09:56,096
Psycho was released
just over two years
129
00:09:56,179 --> 00:09:58,223
after Ed Gein's crimes
were discovered.
130
00:10:00,392 --> 00:10:02,894
I've suggested
that Psycho be seen
131
00:10:02,978 --> 00:10:04,229
from the beginning.
132
00:10:04,855 --> 00:10:08,942
In fact, this is more
than a suggestion.
133
00:10:09,026 --> 00:10:11,653
It is required.
134
00:10:14,323 --> 00:10:16,259
This was the very first time
135
00:10:16,283 --> 00:10:19,703
that audiences were not allowed
to enter the film
136
00:10:19,786 --> 00:10:22,831
after the movie had started.
137
00:10:23,332 --> 00:10:26,626
So if you wanted to buy a ticket
and go see Psycho,
138
00:10:26,710 --> 00:10:28,378
you had to get there
when it started,
139
00:10:28,462 --> 00:10:31,882
because Hitchcock didn't want
anybody to give away the twist.
140
00:10:31,965 --> 00:10:35,385
No one but no one
will be admitted to the theater
141
00:10:35,469 --> 00:10:38,638
after the start
of each performance of Psycho.
142
00:10:39,264 --> 00:10:42,726
Audiences loved the film.
143
00:10:42,809 --> 00:10:45,812
It was amazingly popular.
144
00:10:45,896 --> 00:10:48,857
But reviewers, less so.
145
00:10:49,524 --> 00:10:51,693
And in many of the reviews,
146
00:10:51,777 --> 00:10:53,779
Hitchcock was getting
a lot of credit for, like...
147
00:10:53,862 --> 00:10:55,322
"And, wow,
Hitchcock had the courage
148
00:10:55,405 --> 00:10:57,949
to kill off the main character
so early."
149
00:11:00,035 --> 00:11:02,412
This film had a
horrible scene at the beginning
150
00:11:02,496 --> 00:11:04,790
of a girl being murdered
in a shower.
151
00:11:04,873 --> 00:11:08,418
Well, I deliberately made that
pretty rough,
152
00:11:08,502 --> 00:11:10,337
but as the film developed,
153
00:11:10,420 --> 00:11:15,967
I put less and less
physical horror into it.
154
00:11:16,051 --> 00:11:19,805
I was transferring it from film
into their minds.
155
00:11:19,888 --> 00:11:22,349
So towards the end,
I had no violence at all.
156
00:11:22,432 --> 00:11:26,103
But the audience, by this time,
was screaming in agony.
157
00:11:28,271 --> 00:11:31,066
Psycho was a lot more raw
than earlier Hitchcock films.
158
00:11:31,149 --> 00:11:32,734
And I don't want to
make it sound
159
00:11:32,818 --> 00:11:35,695
that Hitchcock wasn't interested
in psychology before,
160
00:11:35,779 --> 00:11:38,240
but here in Psycho,
we have it linked up
161
00:11:38,323 --> 00:11:40,367
with it actually being
a real story,
162
00:11:40,450 --> 00:11:42,911
and that makes it really,
really scary.
163
00:11:45,247 --> 00:11:47,249
It's in the title.
164
00:11:47,332 --> 00:11:50,460
It's about somebody being
a psychotic.
165
00:11:50,544 --> 00:11:53,130
And that is really different
166
00:11:53,213 --> 00:11:56,341
from just saying,
"This monster is outlandish.
167
00:11:56,425 --> 00:11:58,844
This monster can never happen."
168
00:11:58,927 --> 00:12:02,264
Here we have a monster
who is defined
169
00:12:02,347 --> 00:12:05,392
by the inner workings
of his brain.
170
00:12:06,184 --> 00:12:09,396
And that's what I think makes it
such a different horror film.
171
00:12:12,441 --> 00:12:15,360
I grew up
in the 1950s, baby boomer,
172
00:12:15,444 --> 00:12:18,029
and going to the movies
all the time.
173
00:12:18,113 --> 00:12:20,115
All the monsters...
174
00:12:20,198 --> 00:12:22,993
All the monsters
in movies back then...
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00:12:24,578 --> 00:12:28,206
were alien in some way.
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00:12:34,629 --> 00:12:37,382
What Hitchcock did with Psycho
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00:12:37,466 --> 00:12:43,346
was he created the first, like,
all-American cinematic monster.
178
00:12:45,140 --> 00:12:48,894
And it was, of course,
directly inspired by Gein.
179
00:13:08,497 --> 00:13:11,500
I was doing emergency coverage
180
00:13:11,583 --> 00:13:14,377
at Mendota
Mental Health Institute.
181
00:13:14,461 --> 00:13:16,796
I was on the ward,
182
00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,382
and one of the nurses said,
"Have you met Ed Gein?"
183
00:13:19,466 --> 00:13:21,301
I said, "No, I haven't."
184
00:13:21,384 --> 00:13:23,595
She said,
"Well, let me introduce you."
185
00:13:23,678 --> 00:13:24,971
I was interested.
186
00:13:25,055 --> 00:13:27,140
I've always been curious.
187
00:13:27,224 --> 00:13:30,352
That's been my downfall.
188
00:13:33,980 --> 00:13:38,902
I saw the movie Psycho
when I was in high school.
189
00:13:41,404 --> 00:13:44,824
And I was terrified by it.
190
00:13:44,908 --> 00:13:47,536
I remember I was with
a girlfriend of mine.
191
00:13:47,619 --> 00:13:49,454
We had gone to see the movie.
192
00:13:49,538 --> 00:13:50,914
When we left the movie,
193
00:13:50,997 --> 00:13:53,250
we walked down the middle
of the street
194
00:13:53,333 --> 00:13:55,293
'cause we weren't going to be
near anybody
195
00:13:55,377 --> 00:13:57,003
who could do anything to us.
196
00:13:58,505 --> 00:14:03,134
When you saw the rocker,
the rocking chair...
197
00:14:03,218 --> 00:14:05,845
and you saw the mother.
198
00:14:06,972 --> 00:14:08,974
And you saw him,
199
00:14:09,057 --> 00:14:16,982
you could see that Ed Gein was
the prototype for the character.
200
00:14:18,525 --> 00:14:20,610
The first meeting of him,
201
00:14:20,694 --> 00:14:23,947
he was in what we called
the day room.
202
00:14:24,030 --> 00:14:26,533
And I went up to talk to him.
203
00:14:50,140 --> 00:14:52,100
We would talk about the weather.
204
00:14:52,183 --> 00:14:55,020
We would talk about
some of the things he remembered
205
00:14:55,103 --> 00:14:57,480
about his life.
206
00:14:57,564 --> 00:15:01,192
He was aware that he had been
very much written about
207
00:15:01,276 --> 00:15:03,361
and talked about.
208
00:15:03,695 --> 00:15:07,282
Nice man.
Just like anybody else.
209
00:15:07,365 --> 00:15:10,118
Seems to be harmless fella,
you know?
210
00:15:10,201 --> 00:15:14,205
I knew his dad
more than 40 years ago,
211
00:15:14,289 --> 00:15:16,916
when he used to haul potatoes
in town.
212
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:18,543
He was very soft spoken.
213
00:15:18,627 --> 00:15:21,921
My sister-in-law...
She's in a home now...
214
00:15:22,005 --> 00:15:25,258
She said, "Did you know
Eddie Gein killed Mrs. Worden?"
215
00:15:32,140 --> 00:15:35,226
He knew that they had made
a movie
216
00:15:35,310 --> 00:15:39,981
in which he was the prototype
for the character.
217
00:15:42,525 --> 00:15:45,654
We have 12 vacancies...
12 cabins, 12 vacancies.
218
00:15:45,737 --> 00:15:50,075
Ed Gein was Norman Bates,
and Norman Bates was Ed Gein...
219
00:15:50,158 --> 00:15:56,414
Mild-mannered, attractive,
nice to people around him.
220
00:16:00,168 --> 00:16:05,173
But very much hidden were all
of the crazy things that he did.
221
00:16:13,139 --> 00:16:18,436
Some people had made movies
or some characters after him,
222
00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,314
but that didn't make him
any better.
223
00:16:21,398 --> 00:16:24,317
He was just very bland
about everything.
224
00:16:24,401 --> 00:16:28,071
He never seemed to show
much emotion.
225
00:16:28,988 --> 00:16:33,034
But that's so common
in serial murderers.
226
00:16:33,535 --> 00:16:36,705
But he didn't like to talk
about his crimes.
227
00:16:36,788 --> 00:16:39,998
He didn't want to glorify it.
228
00:16:45,213 --> 00:16:49,175
Psycho was
such a powerful movie.
229
00:16:50,385 --> 00:16:54,472
He had so many people after him.
230
00:16:54,555 --> 00:16:58,016
He was hounded by everybody.
231
00:17:24,711 --> 00:17:27,464
There will be
an auction here Palm Sunday.
232
00:17:27,547 --> 00:17:30,341
But this house and the personal
belongings of Ed Gein
233
00:17:30,425 --> 00:17:32,510
will be conspicuously absent.
234
00:17:32,594 --> 00:17:35,263
Call it an act of God
or whatever you will.
235
00:17:35,346 --> 00:17:37,348
The main attraction
will be missing,
236
00:17:37,432 --> 00:17:41,102
reduced to a mass of rubble
by a mysterious fire.
237
00:17:44,647 --> 00:17:47,734
All we knew is that one morning
we got up
238
00:17:47,817 --> 00:17:49,778
and Eddie Gein's house
had burnt down.
239
00:17:51,613 --> 00:17:53,782
The farm where at Gein lived
240
00:17:53,865 --> 00:17:57,368
and where much of the grisly
evidence has been found
241
00:17:57,452 --> 00:17:58,620
has been leveled.
242
00:17:58,703 --> 00:18:01,372
It burned down one night.
No one knows why.
243
00:18:01,456 --> 00:18:03,875
But since then, the ground
has been bulldozed over
244
00:18:03,958 --> 00:18:06,711
and trees planted there,
trying, apparently,
245
00:18:06,795 --> 00:18:10,673
to wipe out every vestige
of the grisly tragedy.
246
00:18:11,299 --> 00:18:13,676
We had heard
that it took a long time
247
00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,596
for the fire department
to get there.
248
00:18:16,679 --> 00:18:19,140
I'm sure it was arson, and I
think there was proof of that,
249
00:18:19,224 --> 00:18:22,101
but everybody was glad.
250
00:18:41,538 --> 00:18:44,582
We'd heard they were
gonna make a museum out of it,
251
00:18:44,666 --> 00:18:48,419
and that would be the last thing
that the community needed.
252
00:18:48,962 --> 00:18:52,340
After it burnt, everybody
was glad that it had burnt
253
00:18:52,423 --> 00:18:57,136
rather than having a museum
of a sick man's home.
254
00:19:04,352 --> 00:19:07,772
The people of Plainfield and
the area hope that 10 years...
255
00:19:07,856 --> 00:19:10,817
Stop. There's...
Stop a minute.
256
00:19:16,698 --> 00:19:20,493
But a period of 10 years isn't
enough for people to forget.
257
00:19:20,577 --> 00:19:23,162
The farmers
and people of Plainfield
258
00:19:23,246 --> 00:19:25,665
hope they won't have to return
to the agony,
259
00:19:25,748 --> 00:19:29,294
the notoriety that accompanied
the Ed Gein case
260
00:19:29,377 --> 00:19:30,461
just 10 years ago.
261
00:19:45,935 --> 00:19:48,771
He was found
incompetent for many years.
262
00:19:48,855 --> 00:19:52,525
And I think the reason
was because what he did
263
00:19:52,609 --> 00:19:54,319
was just so outrageous.
264
00:19:54,402 --> 00:19:57,947
It was so bizarre that the
psychiatrists that evaluated him
265
00:19:58,031 --> 00:20:01,659
as well as the judge, probably,
said, "I just don't know.
266
00:20:01,743 --> 00:20:04,370
Let's just wait
and see what we have."
267
00:20:07,332 --> 00:20:09,667
Eventually, he was found
competent to proceed
268
00:20:09,751 --> 00:20:11,878
because he always was competent.
269
00:20:14,589 --> 00:20:16,507
He looks somewhat healthier.
270
00:20:16,591 --> 00:20:21,346
He seemed a rather dark and
gaunt personage 10 years ago.
271
00:20:23,473 --> 00:20:27,727
He seems more like a middle-aged
businessman at this time.
272
00:20:29,437 --> 00:20:31,731
Ed Gein,
he had all kinds of fantasies
273
00:20:31,814 --> 00:20:33,316
about traveling to Europe.
274
00:20:53,544 --> 00:20:55,880
This is the courtroom
where Ed Gein was.
275
00:20:55,964 --> 00:20:57,548
- Hey, Scott.
- Hey, Wes.
276
00:20:57,632 --> 00:20:58,632
Nice to see you.
277
00:21:02,971 --> 00:21:04,973
This would have been
whereabouts Ed Gein stood
278
00:21:05,056 --> 00:21:06,516
when he was on trial.
279
00:21:06,599 --> 00:21:08,059
I pretty much think
it's identical
280
00:21:08,142 --> 00:21:11,688
to what it was back then,
from the photos I've seen.
281
00:21:21,698 --> 00:21:25,576
Judge Robert Gollmar
presided over Gein's 1968 trial.
282
00:21:25,660 --> 00:21:26,911
Gein was found insane.
283
00:21:26,995 --> 00:21:29,914
When he first appeared
before me,
284
00:21:29,998 --> 00:21:33,001
I got the impression somewhat
of a puppy.
285
00:21:33,626 --> 00:21:37,296
He was a small,
neat-looking man,
286
00:21:37,380 --> 00:21:38,798
and he stood there
287
00:21:38,881 --> 00:21:42,510
with a kind of ingratiating
little smile on his face.
288
00:21:42,593 --> 00:21:45,638
It was obvious he wanted to make
a good impression on the judge,
289
00:21:45,722 --> 00:21:47,807
and if he'd had a tail
to wiggle,
290
00:21:47,890 --> 00:21:52,311
I'm sure the puppy description
would apply to him.
291
00:21:54,397 --> 00:21:57,734
I had contacted
Judge Robert Gollmar
292
00:21:57,817 --> 00:22:00,820
and was invited to his home.
293
00:22:03,823 --> 00:22:08,369
He did have this kind of
Colonel Sanders aura about him.
294
00:22:10,788 --> 00:22:13,458
He'd kind of basked, I think,
a little
295
00:22:13,541 --> 00:22:16,002
in his connection
to the Gein case...
296
00:22:17,837 --> 00:22:21,674
because it was obviously
kind of the highlight
297
00:22:21,758 --> 00:22:23,926
of his judicial career,
298
00:22:24,010 --> 00:22:30,516
and he had taken advantage
of his position in the case
299
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,810
to write a book about Gein.
300
00:22:35,646 --> 00:22:38,691
One thing he did do in the book
301
00:22:38,775 --> 00:22:43,362
was reproduce
crime-scene photographs
302
00:22:43,446 --> 00:22:49,660
of Bernice Worden's violated
corpse hanging from the rafters,
303
00:22:49,744 --> 00:22:53,122
disemboweled...
Very shocking photographs...
304
00:22:55,500 --> 00:22:57,627
which had incurred the anger
305
00:22:57,710 --> 00:23:00,505
and the resentment
of the people of Plainfield,
306
00:23:00,588 --> 00:23:02,924
because they felt
those photographs
307
00:23:03,007 --> 00:23:05,718
should never have been
publicized.
308
00:23:08,679 --> 00:23:11,808
He took parts
of the people home with him.
309
00:23:11,891 --> 00:23:15,895
He took the skin of women
particularly.
310
00:23:15,978 --> 00:23:18,689
He decorated furniture with it.
311
00:23:18,773 --> 00:23:23,444
He made many other items
out of it.
312
00:23:24,946 --> 00:23:26,030
At that time...
313
00:23:26,114 --> 00:23:28,116
I don't know
if it still holds...
314
00:23:28,199 --> 00:23:30,952
But Wisconsin had what they call
these bifurcated,
315
00:23:31,035 --> 00:23:32,662
or split trials.
316
00:23:33,287 --> 00:23:37,959
First, Gein would be tried for
the murder of Bernice Worden.
317
00:23:38,042 --> 00:23:41,003
Then he would immediately
have another trial
318
00:23:41,087 --> 00:23:44,590
in which his mental competence
would be determined.
319
00:23:46,884 --> 00:23:49,720
My folks never talked
about a trial.
320
00:23:49,804 --> 00:23:51,973
I don't think that they thought
we needed to know
321
00:23:52,056 --> 00:23:55,685
these horrific details
of the crime.
322
00:23:56,435 --> 00:23:58,187
We knew that my dad
was having...
323
00:23:58,271 --> 00:24:01,607
We thought that my dad
was having heart problems.
324
00:24:01,691 --> 00:24:06,529
My dad would get such bad pains,
and I hated to see that.
325
00:24:06,612 --> 00:24:07,989
I'd say,
"Dad, what's the matter?
326
00:24:08,072 --> 00:24:09,740
What's the matter?"
"Nothing.
327
00:24:09,824 --> 00:24:11,742
I just got indigestion,"
he'd say.
328
00:24:12,201 --> 00:24:14,745
But then one night, it was just
a massive heart attack,
329
00:24:14,829 --> 00:24:15,955
and that was it.
330
00:24:16,038 --> 00:24:19,709
He had just turned 43 years old.
331
00:24:20,334 --> 00:24:22,044
One of his relatives said
332
00:24:22,128 --> 00:24:25,131
that the sheriff was actually
the last victim of Ed Gein
333
00:24:25,214 --> 00:24:28,092
because he was so disturbed
by what he'd seen
334
00:24:28,176 --> 00:24:30,178
and so disturbed
at what Ed Gein's actions
335
00:24:30,261 --> 00:24:31,679
did to him personally,
336
00:24:31,762 --> 00:24:34,056
Ed Gein may as well
have killed him.
337
00:24:39,687 --> 00:24:41,606
Gein was found guilty
338
00:24:41,689 --> 00:24:45,067
of the first-degree murder
of Bernice Worden.
339
00:24:45,151 --> 00:24:48,571
Immediately, there was
a second part of the trial,
340
00:24:48,654 --> 00:24:51,574
and he was declared
mentally incompetent
341
00:24:51,657 --> 00:24:54,619
and returned
to the mental institution.
342
00:24:56,621 --> 00:24:57,914
So, in effect,
343
00:24:57,997 --> 00:25:02,043
Gein was convicted and acquitted
at the same time.
344
00:25:14,013 --> 00:25:16,807
The issue is his mental state
345
00:25:16,891 --> 00:25:18,893
at the time of the crime.
346
00:25:18,976 --> 00:25:21,854
In this case, you could argue
that he has a mental disorder,
347
00:25:21,938 --> 00:25:24,941
but that's not all with respect
in meeting the legal standard.
348
00:25:38,871 --> 00:25:41,207
You need a defect of reason.
349
00:25:41,290 --> 00:25:44,752
And that usually means
your thinking is delusional...
350
00:25:44,835 --> 00:25:46,587
"God told me to do it."
351
00:25:46,671 --> 00:25:48,732
"Martians are controlling
my mind"... that type of thing.
352
00:25:48,756 --> 00:25:50,067
Well, Gein knew
what he was doing.
353
00:25:50,091 --> 00:25:51,676
He knew very well
what he was doing.
354
00:26:14,782 --> 00:26:17,618
When I look at
this from a distance,
355
00:26:17,702 --> 00:26:21,706
I don't see any basis for
incompetency or legal insanity.
356
00:26:21,789 --> 00:26:23,207
Disturbance?
Yes.
357
00:26:23,291 --> 00:26:25,793
Legal insanity?
Based on what?
358
00:26:25,876 --> 00:26:27,086
He knew what he was doing,
359
00:26:27,169 --> 00:26:28,796
and he knew what he was doing
was wrong.
360
00:26:28,879 --> 00:26:29,922
That's the standard.
361
00:26:43,477 --> 00:26:45,354
Back in 1962,
362
00:26:45,438 --> 00:26:48,733
the crime-scene investigators
returned all the body parts
363
00:26:48,816 --> 00:26:51,694
from Ed Gein's house, and they
put them in a mass grave,
364
00:26:51,777 --> 00:26:53,946
which would include
Mary Hogan's head.
365
00:26:54,030 --> 00:26:55,990
So they're all
in that one grave.
366
00:26:59,076 --> 00:27:01,078
So this is the spot
of the mass grave
367
00:27:01,162 --> 00:27:03,247
where all the body parts are.
368
00:27:03,331 --> 00:27:05,666
His skin suit, all the masks,
369
00:27:05,750 --> 00:27:08,002
Mary Hogan's head
is probably here.
370
00:27:08,085 --> 00:27:09,795
So now we're trying to
uncover it.
371
00:27:17,345 --> 00:27:20,306
Okay. This is it.
We found it.
372
00:27:23,768 --> 00:27:26,103
It says, "This is dedicated
to the unknown
373
00:27:26,187 --> 00:27:27,396
that are buried here."
374
00:27:31,859 --> 00:27:35,071
Gein admitted
to digging up nine to 11 bodies,
375
00:27:35,154 --> 00:27:37,198
most from
this Plainfield cemetery.
376
00:27:37,281 --> 00:27:38,949
But to this day,
377
00:27:39,033 --> 00:27:41,702
no one is sure how many graves
may actually be empty.
378
00:27:59,303 --> 00:28:02,348
So it's actually weird that
they would not have confirmed
379
00:28:02,431 --> 00:28:06,936
and identified precisely who
was missing from which grave.
380
00:28:07,812 --> 00:28:11,357
I don't think nowadays
anyone would accept the...
381
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:12,900
What should we call him?
382
00:28:14,235 --> 00:28:16,946
The patient or the perpetrator?
383
00:28:17,029 --> 00:28:21,826
Would accept
their self-report as being valid
384
00:28:21,909 --> 00:28:23,452
and entirely truthful,
385
00:28:23,536 --> 00:28:27,790
especially if you're raising
issues about mental illness.
386
00:28:28,499 --> 00:28:31,001
Plainfield does not
want to be remembered
387
00:28:31,085 --> 00:28:32,837
as the home of Ed Gein.
388
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,840
People here do not want to be
reminded that it was murder
389
00:28:35,923 --> 00:28:38,843
and grave robbery
which put Plainfield on the map.
390
00:28:41,554 --> 00:28:43,848
The people
of Plainfield were angry
391
00:28:43,931 --> 00:28:47,768
that the world had shined
a spotlight on them
392
00:28:47,852 --> 00:28:50,020
as the home of Ed Gein.
393
00:28:52,606 --> 00:28:54,859
They were this small
farming community
394
00:28:54,942 --> 00:28:57,862
that was perfectly happy
with being isolated
395
00:28:57,945 --> 00:29:00,865
and not being known
by the rest of the world.
396
00:29:01,615 --> 00:29:04,493
It was very
traumatic to the community.
397
00:29:05,161 --> 00:29:09,039
And after the Gein crimes
came to light,
398
00:29:09,123 --> 00:29:14,503
all these jokes began to
circulate around the community.
399
00:29:17,214 --> 00:29:18,883
They were called "Geiners."
400
00:29:18,966 --> 00:29:22,094
So they're not especially funny,
but it would be like,
401
00:29:22,178 --> 00:29:27,141
"Why did Ed Gein always keep
the heat on in his house?
402
00:29:27,224 --> 00:29:30,519
So the furniture wouldn't get
goose bumps."
403
00:29:30,603 --> 00:29:35,858
Or, "Why didn't people
want to play cards with Ed?
404
00:29:35,941 --> 00:29:39,945
'Cause they were afraid
he'd come up with a good hand."
405
00:29:40,779 --> 00:29:45,534
"What were Ed Gein's
favorite pastries?
406
00:29:45,618 --> 00:29:48,245
Ladyfingers."
You know, stuff like that.
407
00:29:48,329 --> 00:29:52,208
You know, folklorists tend to
see that kind of sick humor
408
00:29:52,291 --> 00:29:57,546
as, you know, a defense
against all the horrors.
409
00:30:01,967 --> 00:30:03,945
I remember when we first
were reading Harold Schechter
410
00:30:03,969 --> 00:30:06,180
about the concept of Geiners,
411
00:30:06,263 --> 00:30:08,432
and it's kind of a direct line
to us,
412
00:30:08,516 --> 00:30:10,267
to The Last Podcast on the Left.
413
00:30:10,351 --> 00:30:12,603
It's more of kind of a mirror
of, like, how people react
414
00:30:12,686 --> 00:30:15,940
to that horrible thing
and why we say these jokes,
415
00:30:16,023 --> 00:30:19,527
which is to cope
with horrible information.
416
00:30:41,257 --> 00:30:42,925
It's showtime.
417
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,433
Texas Chainsaw Massacre
418
00:30:51,517 --> 00:30:53,477
came out in 1974.
419
00:30:53,561 --> 00:30:57,523
A lot of people were very upset
by Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
420
00:30:57,606 --> 00:31:01,610
What's the matter, honey?
You don't look so good.
421
00:31:01,694 --> 00:31:03,571
Some people were very,
very disgusted
422
00:31:03,654 --> 00:31:06,073
and walked out of the film.
423
00:31:06,907 --> 00:31:12,204
They were so upset by what they
saw as hyperviolence on-screen.
424
00:31:17,001 --> 00:31:18,645
You're going to see a movie
called Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
425
00:31:18,669 --> 00:31:20,462
Like, what do you expect?
426
00:31:20,546 --> 00:31:24,633
But for a lot of audiences,
it also was thrilling.
427
00:31:26,427 --> 00:31:29,430
It was something that was
so new, that was so different,
428
00:31:29,513 --> 00:31:32,558
that was doing something
entirely new with this form
429
00:31:32,641 --> 00:31:34,893
and with this genre.
430
00:31:35,978 --> 00:31:37,271
When you understand
431
00:31:37,354 --> 00:31:40,357
that it's partially based
on an actual story,
432
00:31:40,441 --> 00:31:41,984
on something
that actually happened...
433
00:31:42,067 --> 00:31:44,528
What happened was true.
434
00:31:44,612 --> 00:31:47,323
All of the sudden,
that outlandishness
435
00:31:47,406 --> 00:31:50,117
becomes something
that's possible in real life
436
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,578
and possible in somewhere
like Wisconsin.
437
00:31:54,622 --> 00:31:58,334
Part of the film's
inspiration came from the news.
438
00:31:59,335 --> 00:32:01,545
And it was so graphic.
439
00:32:01,629 --> 00:32:03,547
I mean, it was...
It was unbelievable.
440
00:32:07,343 --> 00:32:09,678
I have relatives from Wisconsin
441
00:32:09,762 --> 00:32:13,182
that lived about 27 miles
from, you know,
442
00:32:13,265 --> 00:32:15,184
where the Ed Gein incident
happened.
443
00:32:17,311 --> 00:32:20,481
And so when the Wisconsin
relatives came to town...
444
00:32:21,065 --> 00:32:23,567
they would tell this story
445
00:32:23,651 --> 00:32:27,488
about the guy that covered his
furniture with human skin...
446
00:32:29,073 --> 00:32:31,950
makes the human-skin lampshades.
447
00:32:32,034 --> 00:32:33,452
"My God."
448
00:32:33,535 --> 00:32:38,123
And, you know, those people
continuously wound me up.
449
00:32:38,582 --> 00:32:40,292
Whatever they told me...
450
00:32:40,376 --> 00:32:44,588
And I'm sure I can't or wouldn't
even want to recall all of it...
451
00:32:44,672 --> 00:32:45,964
But it stuck with me.
452
00:32:46,048 --> 00:32:48,634
It was always ever-present.
453
00:32:48,717 --> 00:32:51,053
The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
454
00:32:51,136 --> 00:32:53,722
After you stop screaming,
you'll start talking about it.
455
00:32:56,725 --> 00:33:00,062
People are afraid
of that little house
456
00:33:00,145 --> 00:33:02,147
in the middle
of an abandoned field...
457
00:33:03,732 --> 00:33:05,609
when you're driving
down the highway.
458
00:33:05,693 --> 00:33:08,195
It's why Texas Chainsaw Massacre
459
00:33:08,278 --> 00:33:10,030
was based off of his actions,
460
00:33:10,114 --> 00:33:11,990
why Psycho was based
off of his actions.
461
00:33:12,074 --> 00:33:17,204
Because it was just such a
unique moment in crime history.
462
00:33:17,287 --> 00:33:18,997
And then you see the guy
who did it,
463
00:33:19,081 --> 00:33:23,085
and it's this goofy
backwoods gremlin.
464
00:33:35,305 --> 00:33:38,809
I first saw Texas Chainsaw
Massacre when I was 22.
465
00:33:38,892 --> 00:33:42,646
I can identify that it was
at this exact moment
466
00:33:42,730 --> 00:33:46,108
because it left, like,
a really dirty stain on my brain
467
00:33:46,191 --> 00:33:48,071
that I have never been able
to scrub away since.
468
00:33:52,573 --> 00:33:57,619
I remember really clearly seeing
that opening of the film...
469
00:33:58,327 --> 00:34:01,582
and being so unsettled
and so upset,
470
00:34:01,664 --> 00:34:04,835
because what that extreme
close-up of an eye does
471
00:34:04,918 --> 00:34:09,131
is it puts us immediately in
the zone of watching something.
472
00:34:14,219 --> 00:34:18,432
I think by making Leatherface
into this character
473
00:34:18,515 --> 00:34:21,184
who wears somebody else's face,
474
00:34:21,268 --> 00:34:24,146
Tobe Hooper is in some ways
making a really sick joke
475
00:34:24,229 --> 00:34:27,191
about how we understand
character psychology to work
476
00:34:27,273 --> 00:34:29,693
and how we understand
our own psychologies to work.
477
00:34:29,777 --> 00:34:31,653
The face that we present
to the world,
478
00:34:31,737 --> 00:34:34,615
often that is kind of the face
of another person,
479
00:34:34,698 --> 00:34:36,825
but here it's literalized
in Leatherface.
480
00:34:36,909 --> 00:34:39,703
And so imitators
and people inspired by it,
481
00:34:39,787 --> 00:34:42,456
they kind of sprang up really,
really quickly,
482
00:34:42,539 --> 00:34:44,291
because it was
so abundantly clear
483
00:34:44,374 --> 00:34:47,419
that this was a work of such
imagination, such creativity,
484
00:34:47,503 --> 00:34:50,297
but also it was a work
that was so rooted
485
00:34:50,380 --> 00:34:54,760
in exactly what was happening in
the U.S. at exactly that moment.
486
00:35:06,230 --> 00:35:10,234
I probably saw him
about 10 times.
487
00:35:11,109 --> 00:35:13,737
Every time I went,
I was a new person to him,
488
00:35:13,821 --> 00:35:16,240
even though I had seen him
before.
489
00:35:16,323 --> 00:35:19,409
And he would not recognize me...
490
00:35:19,493 --> 00:35:22,287
Or he wouldn't seem
to recognize me.
491
00:35:29,670 --> 00:35:33,757
People in the hospital basically
didn't react at all to him
492
00:35:33,841 --> 00:35:36,844
because he was basically
just a patient.
493
00:35:36,927 --> 00:35:38,679
He was demented.
494
00:35:38,762 --> 00:35:42,140
So he really didn't cause
any problems.
495
00:35:42,224 --> 00:35:44,768
They never had to call any codes
496
00:35:44,852 --> 00:35:47,604
or any special kinds
of interventions
497
00:35:47,688 --> 00:35:49,356
because he was acting out.
498
00:35:49,439 --> 00:35:51,441
He was just there.
499
00:36:06,540 --> 00:36:08,333
He was a monster.
500
00:36:08,417 --> 00:36:14,840
And I think people tended
to not see that part of him.
501
00:36:26,268 --> 00:36:29,730
Gein lived as a model prisoner.
502
00:36:30,397 --> 00:36:35,485
Never displayed, certainly,
any signs of violence.
503
00:36:36,069 --> 00:36:39,781
The big story was
that he was harmless.
504
00:36:39,865 --> 00:36:42,659
I think people
kind of felt sorry for him
505
00:36:42,743 --> 00:36:46,663
because he had been there
for years now
506
00:36:46,747 --> 00:36:49,666
and wasn't showing symptoms.
507
00:36:52,044 --> 00:36:54,796
It just seemed,
in many, many ways,
508
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:59,676
Ed's life
in a mental institution
509
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,764
was far better,
you know, than the kind of life
510
00:37:03,847 --> 00:37:06,683
he had been living
up to that point.
511
00:37:06,767 --> 00:37:09,686
You know, he was living
in this horror house,
512
00:37:09,770 --> 00:37:14,316
you know, surrounded by
the body parts of human beings.
513
00:37:14,399 --> 00:37:17,903
No electricity,
no running water.
514
00:37:17,986 --> 00:37:22,324
The only living things
in the house were the spiders
515
00:37:22,407 --> 00:37:23,575
and the vermin.
516
00:37:24,159 --> 00:37:27,871
Now he was, as they say,
three hots and a cot.
517
00:37:27,955 --> 00:37:30,916
We had other human interactions
and so on and so forth.
518
00:37:30,999 --> 00:37:34,336
So, you know,
I think he lived out his life,
519
00:37:34,419 --> 00:37:36,797
you know, pretty contentedly.
520
00:37:37,506 --> 00:37:40,550
My takeaway
from my time with Ed Gein
521
00:37:40,634 --> 00:37:44,012
was I was very sad for him.
522
00:37:46,390 --> 00:37:50,394
He was really an enigma...
523
00:37:50,477 --> 00:37:55,983
and he could never have made
anything different in his life.
524
00:38:50,537 --> 00:38:51,913
This is it.
525
00:38:51,997 --> 00:38:53,707
Ed's right here.
526
00:38:56,001 --> 00:38:58,587
The tombstone got stolen.
527
00:38:59,212 --> 00:39:03,008
So once it got returned,
it's right now in a basement...
528
00:39:03,091 --> 00:39:06,011
Some cemetery board member
has it,
529
00:39:06,094 --> 00:39:07,864
and they're talking about
burying it somewhere,
530
00:39:07,888 --> 00:39:09,598
so they never put one back on.
531
00:39:09,681 --> 00:39:11,641
Augusta's right here.
532
00:39:11,725 --> 00:39:15,353
Henry's on the far left end.
533
00:39:15,896 --> 00:39:17,814
I always get an adrenaline rush
being out here,
534
00:39:17,898 --> 00:39:19,733
seeing all the souvenirs
being left for Ed.
535
00:39:22,819 --> 00:39:25,614
All the incense and work gloves
and flowers.
536
00:39:26,031 --> 00:39:28,909
A lot of people come out here
and visit Ed.
537
00:39:39,169 --> 00:39:42,714
Eddie had a very troubled life,
538
00:39:42,798 --> 00:39:48,386
and I think it had to be a
relief to him when the end came.
539
00:39:53,892 --> 00:39:56,019
It affected me not one way
or the other.
540
00:39:56,103 --> 00:39:58,563
Eddie had been there
part of my life.
541
00:39:58,647 --> 00:40:00,482
Now he's gone.
542
00:40:12,994 --> 00:40:15,789
I'm from Chicago,
543
00:40:15,872 --> 00:40:20,544
so Ed Gein was always
satelliting in my consciousness.
544
00:40:20,627 --> 00:40:21,878
I'm Chuck Parello.
545
00:40:21,962 --> 00:40:25,132
I am the director
of the movie Ed Gein.
546
00:40:25,215 --> 00:40:28,718
It is time for you
to do the Lord's work.
547
00:40:28,802 --> 00:40:30,011
Are you ready, Edward?
548
00:40:30,095 --> 00:40:31,930
I'm ready, Mama.
549
00:40:34,266 --> 00:40:36,226
I got into the preparation
550
00:40:36,309 --> 00:40:40,021
for making the Ed Gein movie
by first watching
551
00:40:40,105 --> 00:40:43,984
as many incarnations
of the story that I could.
552
00:40:44,067 --> 00:40:46,987
So I watched Psycho,
Silence of the Lambs,
553
00:40:47,070 --> 00:40:50,740
Texas Chainsaw Massacre,
Deranged.
554
00:40:52,534 --> 00:40:55,871
And we did go to Plainfield.
555
00:40:56,955 --> 00:41:01,251
I did feel an obligation to
make it historically accurate.
556
00:41:01,334 --> 00:41:05,589
I thought there had been
so many fictitious takes on it
557
00:41:05,672 --> 00:41:07,966
and people just borrowing
elements from it
558
00:41:08,049 --> 00:41:10,093
that this time around,
we were going to tell it
559
00:41:10,177 --> 00:41:12,220
the way that it really happened.
560
00:41:13,889 --> 00:41:16,600
The portrayal of Ed in my film
561
00:41:16,683 --> 00:41:19,519
actually comes off
as kind of sympathetic.
562
00:41:20,020 --> 00:41:22,731
I think that ended up being
the right decision
563
00:41:22,814 --> 00:41:24,900
because you do empathize
with him,
564
00:41:24,983 --> 00:41:27,986
even though he's a horrible,
degenerate person.
565
00:41:28,069 --> 00:41:30,989
He was misunderstood,
and he just didn't get any help.
566
00:41:31,698 --> 00:41:33,992
I don't really see him as evil.
567
00:41:34,075 --> 00:41:36,077
I see him as someone who's sick,
568
00:41:36,161 --> 00:41:39,122
whose psychosis just kept
getting worse and worse
569
00:41:39,206 --> 00:41:43,627
and... who couldn't get any help.
570
00:41:44,085 --> 00:41:47,172
The evilness
that manifests itself
571
00:41:47,255 --> 00:41:51,635
in the bad stuff that he did
was quite another matter.
572
00:41:56,681 --> 00:41:58,975
There was a scene in the script
573
00:41:59,059 --> 00:42:03,521
where Ed was sewing together
a skin suit,
574
00:42:03,605 --> 00:42:06,983
and I ended up taking it out
just because it was too similar
575
00:42:07,067 --> 00:42:10,070
to something that was in
The Silence of the Lambs.
576
00:42:16,243 --> 00:42:18,245
I knew there would be fanboys
who would say,
577
00:42:18,328 --> 00:42:20,664
"You took that from
The Silence of the Lambs,
578
00:42:20,747 --> 00:42:24,042
not knowing that it was actual
source-material stuff.
579
00:42:35,428 --> 00:42:39,057
There's been six movies
based on the book Psycho,
580
00:42:39,140 --> 00:42:41,893
and there's been
a prequel TV show.
581
00:42:42,352 --> 00:42:44,813
House of 1000 Corpses
582
00:42:44,896 --> 00:42:48,733
is a movie that clearly fits
into this lineage.
583
00:42:48,817 --> 00:42:51,236
It's so clearly influenced
by Tobe Hooper,
584
00:42:51,319 --> 00:42:55,282
but then also with Ed Gein
put back in and made central,
585
00:42:55,365 --> 00:42:57,784
more so than in
Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
586
00:42:58,618 --> 00:43:00,829
Then Devil's Rejects
is a great example,
587
00:43:00,912 --> 00:43:05,083
because that film also takes on
a kind of twisted Americana.
588
00:43:07,877 --> 00:43:10,380
There's definitely things
about movies like Ed Gein
589
00:43:10,463 --> 00:43:13,925
and Psycho
that really makes you look twice
590
00:43:14,009 --> 00:43:15,760
at the kindly neighbor,
591
00:43:15,844 --> 00:43:17,971
you know, that lives next door
to you.
592
00:43:18,888 --> 00:43:22,017
When Ed Gein came out,
it just became a hit.
593
00:43:23,727 --> 00:43:25,895
All of a sudden,
it was everywhere.
594
00:43:25,979 --> 00:43:27,939
But at the end of the day,
595
00:43:28,023 --> 00:43:32,610
you just turn it off and go back
to leading your normal life.
596
00:43:32,694 --> 00:43:36,156
One thing I tried to do was to
show the plight of the victims
597
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:38,241
and show that these people
598
00:43:38,325 --> 00:43:40,744
actually had horrible things
happen.
599
00:43:40,827 --> 00:43:43,288
I think that's
what makes it have longevity
600
00:43:43,371 --> 00:43:47,167
and stick-to-your-ribs
kind of appeal.
601
00:43:47,876 --> 00:43:50,086
I think all of these movies
602
00:43:50,170 --> 00:43:52,047
and the story of Ed Gein,
603
00:43:52,130 --> 00:43:55,050
they really demonstrate
a couple of things.
604
00:43:55,133 --> 00:43:57,761
They tell us that horror
605
00:43:57,844 --> 00:44:02,182
is something that is a way
that we understand ourselves.
606
00:44:02,265 --> 00:44:07,103
It is a necessary element of how
the United States functions.
607
00:44:09,105 --> 00:44:11,024
I think
one of the main attractions
608
00:44:11,107 --> 00:44:13,443
to the Ed Gein character
is that he was an outsider.
609
00:44:13,526 --> 00:44:15,945
We've all felt like
we didn't belong,
610
00:44:16,029 --> 00:44:18,031
people didn't like us.
611
00:44:18,114 --> 00:44:21,201
So there's this general thing
that just...
612
00:44:21,284 --> 00:44:24,954
That everybody can identify
with, and I certainly did.
613
00:44:57,070 --> 00:45:00,865
Well, I mean, no one knew
of the existence of this tape.
614
00:45:01,908 --> 00:45:05,328
I mean, this casts a whole
new light on the Gein case.
615
00:45:05,412 --> 00:45:09,249
It's the whole context.
616
00:45:24,848 --> 00:45:28,017
It's almost
as if something emerged,
617
00:45:28,101 --> 00:45:33,523
a crack in Gein's psychology
that allowed all this primitive,
618
00:45:33,606 --> 00:45:36,192
archaic stuff to pour out.
619
00:45:38,278 --> 00:45:40,113
In this modern America,
620
00:45:40,196 --> 00:45:42,907
where all these families
were gathered around,
621
00:45:42,991 --> 00:45:46,744
you know, watching
Leave It to Beaver on TV,
622
00:45:46,828 --> 00:45:49,414
you know, you had this guy,
simultaneously,
623
00:45:49,497 --> 00:45:52,917
in this little hellhole
of a house...
624
00:45:54,878 --> 00:45:58,882
dressing in the victims' skin
and so on.
625
00:46:07,849 --> 00:46:10,560
The question arises
as to why does Gein
626
00:46:10,643 --> 00:46:14,981
or any offender like him keep
doing it over and over again?
627
00:46:15,064 --> 00:46:18,776
And the answer is it's part
of what arouses them sexually,
628
00:46:18,860 --> 00:46:21,946
and the sexual instinct itself
is strong.
629
00:46:23,323 --> 00:46:25,241
The fact that Gein kept doing it
630
00:46:25,325 --> 00:46:29,162
shows how strong
the compulsion was,
631
00:46:29,245 --> 00:46:34,918
how strong the urge was to do it
over and over and over again.
632
00:46:35,335 --> 00:46:37,086
And if he didn't get caught,
633
00:46:37,170 --> 00:46:40,548
he would have continued to do it
until he got arrested.
634
00:46:46,846 --> 00:46:50,600
When I listen to the tapes,
there's the researcher in me
635
00:46:50,683 --> 00:46:53,603
that's interested
at an intellectual level
636
00:46:53,686 --> 00:46:59,025
about learning more from
the actual words of a killer
637
00:46:59,108 --> 00:47:03,029
describing in detail
why they did what they did.
638
00:47:03,112 --> 00:47:04,489
So there's a part of me
639
00:47:04,572 --> 00:47:06,407
that's just intellectually
fascinated by that.
640
00:47:06,491 --> 00:47:08,493
But then there's another part
of me that, you know,
641
00:47:08,576 --> 00:47:10,954
when I take off
the researcher hat,
642
00:47:11,037 --> 00:47:13,456
there's an eeriness
in hearing somebody
643
00:47:13,540 --> 00:47:16,084
who's seemingly so oblivious
644
00:47:16,167 --> 00:47:19,170
to the nature
of what they have been doing.
645
00:47:19,712 --> 00:47:22,549
Ed Gein doesn't even remember
some of the things
646
00:47:22,632 --> 00:47:25,635
or pretends or talks about
how he doesn't remember things.
647
00:47:25,718 --> 00:47:29,055
So the banality
of what he's talking about
648
00:47:29,138 --> 00:47:31,599
is also really striking.
649
00:47:38,606 --> 00:47:40,900
The man is truly very ill.
650
00:47:40,984 --> 00:47:42,318
So as you're talking to him,
651
00:47:42,402 --> 00:47:44,571
it's becoming very, very evident
that he is...
652
00:47:44,654 --> 00:47:47,156
You're hearing him.
One-word sentences.
653
00:47:47,240 --> 00:47:49,909
They end like, "That's right.
That's right."
654
00:47:49,993 --> 00:47:53,371
Like just trying to just... like
he's talking about the weather.
655
00:48:02,130 --> 00:48:05,216
He sounds exactly
as I expected him to sound,
656
00:48:05,300 --> 00:48:09,345
but he has an underlying urge
that he does not understand.
657
00:48:09,429 --> 00:48:11,097
Like, there's something
inside of him
658
00:48:11,180 --> 00:48:14,642
that is absolutely undying.
659
00:48:14,726 --> 00:48:16,477
It will not go away.
660
00:48:16,561 --> 00:48:19,188
And this is the only way
that he can manifest that.
661
00:48:19,272 --> 00:48:20,749
That's the most calm person
I've ever heard
662
00:48:20,773 --> 00:48:23,443
with a bunch of vulvas in a box,
you know?
663
00:48:31,993 --> 00:48:33,762
What do you think Augusta
would have thought of all this?
664
00:48:33,786 --> 00:48:35,705
Augusta would have disapproved.
665
00:48:40,627 --> 00:48:43,379
Ed Gein was a puzzle.
666
00:48:43,463 --> 00:48:47,216
Why did he come out
the way he did?
667
00:48:47,717 --> 00:48:52,305
Why didn't his brother turn out
the way Ed Gein did?
668
00:48:52,388 --> 00:48:54,390
They were raised
in the same family...
669
00:48:56,017 --> 00:48:58,227
the same kind of relationship,
670
00:48:58,311 --> 00:49:02,231
the same mother and father,
the same environment.
671
00:49:04,150 --> 00:49:09,697
Why did Ed Gein become
such a horrible murderer?
672
00:49:11,532 --> 00:49:14,577
Someday, somebody
who's smarter than I am
673
00:49:14,661 --> 00:49:17,080
is going to figure out
these people
674
00:49:17,163 --> 00:49:19,290
before they kill everybody.
675
00:50:44,065 --> 00:50:46,065
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