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1
00:00:03,421 --> 00:00:06,424
[dramatic music plays]
2
00:00:30,114 --> 00:00:33,367
[Reid] Bernice Worden
had been murdered.
3
00:00:33,451 --> 00:00:37,538
They'd caught Eddie because
he was the one that had done it.
4
00:00:55,431 --> 00:00:58,184
I knew Bernice well.
5
00:00:58,267 --> 00:01:01,187
She'd been gutted out
like a deer.
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00:01:16,619 --> 00:01:22,374
It was very hard to visualize
somebody doing that to a human.
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00:01:22,458 --> 00:01:24,710
But we didn't know
the peculiar thoughts
8
00:01:24,794 --> 00:01:27,296
that went through
Eddie's mind at that time.
9
00:01:38,474 --> 00:01:40,726
[Boyd] What time was that?
Do you remember?
10
00:01:40,810 --> 00:01:43,729
[Schechter] Eddie is such
a mythic figure.
11
00:01:43,813 --> 00:01:47,650
Hearing this
actual human voice...
12
00:01:47,733 --> 00:01:50,486
[Gein] I can't even
remember that.
13
00:01:50,569 --> 00:01:55,825
It just makes these crimes
that much more real.
14
00:01:55,908 --> 00:01:58,577
[dramatic music plays]
15
00:02:00,287 --> 00:02:03,249
[theme music plays]
16
00:02:22,309 --> 00:02:25,396
[dramatic music plays]
17
00:02:34,947 --> 00:02:36,907
[Marcus] Well, we've been
debating for years
18
00:02:36,991 --> 00:02:38,701
what did Ed Gein sound like?
19
00:02:38,784 --> 00:02:43,455
[Henry] I have been playing
Ed Gein in my brain for so long.
20
00:02:59,889 --> 00:03:03,559
He sounds just as bewildered
as I always expected him to.
21
00:03:03,642 --> 00:03:05,269
- Sure.
- Always wondering,
22
00:03:05,352 --> 00:03:06,729
"Why did I do this?
23
00:03:06,812 --> 00:03:11,567
What possibly could have
driven me to dig up these women,
24
00:03:11,650 --> 00:03:13,986
to make these, you know,
costumes, to do all of this?"
25
00:03:14,069 --> 00:03:16,655
Like, he's still...
He's marveled.
26
00:03:16,739 --> 00:03:19,658
My first reaction to him talking
27
00:03:19,742 --> 00:03:23,913
is he's actually a lot more
canny than I thought he was.
28
00:03:23,996 --> 00:03:25,831
As I'm listening to him react,
29
00:03:25,915 --> 00:03:29,627
he knows there are things
he can't tell the police.
30
00:03:29,710 --> 00:03:31,545
It's almost like
he's already known
31
00:03:31,629 --> 00:03:33,297
that this has been
going on for so long
32
00:03:33,380 --> 00:03:34,441
and he's surprised
that they're shocked.
33
00:03:34,465 --> 00:03:36,216
[Marcus] Yeah.
34
00:03:36,300 --> 00:03:39,219
He's almost ignorant of his
own macabre ways. It's crazy.
35
00:03:39,303 --> 00:03:40,512
That's what people said
36
00:03:40,596 --> 00:03:42,932
again and again
during his confessions,
37
00:03:43,015 --> 00:03:44,808
people who spoke to him,
38
00:03:44,892 --> 00:03:47,603
is that people would start off
a little bit hard towards him
39
00:03:47,686 --> 00:03:49,480
and then they would
become sympathetic
40
00:03:49,563 --> 00:03:52,983
because the way they described
him was as a little boy,
41
00:03:53,067 --> 00:03:56,236
a demented little boy,
but a little boy nonetheless.
42
00:03:59,615 --> 00:04:03,869
[man] Oh, you're bright,
you know, aren't you?
43
00:04:03,953 --> 00:04:06,288
[man #2] Well, now, will you
let me do this after?
44
00:04:06,372 --> 00:04:12,044
Ed Gein had the emotional social
maturity of a small child
45
00:04:12,127 --> 00:04:17,549
who was, on all accounts,
very dependent on his mom.
46
00:04:17,633 --> 00:04:21,971
When I listened to the tapes,
he seems very suggestible.
47
00:04:22,054 --> 00:04:25,849
He's somebody
who seems very passive.
48
00:04:54,086 --> 00:04:56,463
He didn't go through
the kinds of stages
49
00:04:56,547 --> 00:04:59,091
and the maturation that
a person would go through
50
00:04:59,174 --> 00:05:02,011
if they, you know,
were allowed to socialize
51
00:05:02,094 --> 00:05:05,514
and have friendships
outside of the home
52
00:05:05,597 --> 00:05:09,518
and lived in a place where
he had that kind of support.
53
00:05:09,601 --> 00:05:14,314
He had never really developed
into a full-fledged self.
54
00:05:14,398 --> 00:05:17,484
[dramatic music plays]
55
00:05:40,883 --> 00:05:43,343
[Bowser] This is the front of
the Waushara County jail
56
00:05:43,427 --> 00:05:47,639
as it looked in 1957.
57
00:05:47,723 --> 00:05:50,476
This is where the Ed Gein tapes
were actually made.
58
00:05:50,559 --> 00:05:51,810
And in the back of the building
59
00:05:51,894 --> 00:05:54,521
was actually
where Ed Gein was held.
60
00:05:56,523 --> 00:06:01,612
Everything inside the building
is still original to 1957.
61
00:06:01,695 --> 00:06:04,782
He actually came out of this
door to go to the courthouse.
62
00:06:09,578 --> 00:06:12,164
First night he got here,
they put him in a drunk tank
63
00:06:12,247 --> 00:06:15,584
to protect him from all
the people of Plainfield.
64
00:06:15,667 --> 00:06:17,836
Thought they'd be coming
to get him.
65
00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,799
Then after that, they moved him
into his regular cell.
66
00:06:21,882 --> 00:06:24,510
Ed Gein's cell is directly
behind that second window.
67
00:06:24,593 --> 00:06:27,554
He was here for three days
and two nights.
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00:06:29,723 --> 00:06:32,433
This is a small town
in Wisconsin.
69
00:06:32,518 --> 00:06:34,144
Where they just know
that train's coming.
70
00:06:34,228 --> 00:06:36,605
They know it's coming.
And if you're law enforcement,
71
00:06:36,688 --> 00:06:38,065
this is not what you want.
72
00:06:43,278 --> 00:06:47,116
You do not want this stain
on your community.
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00:06:47,199 --> 00:06:48,951
People are humble,
74
00:06:49,034 --> 00:06:51,954
but they have a lot of pride
in... in being good people.
75
00:06:52,037 --> 00:06:53,872
[Henry] Also, it happened
under your nose.
76
00:06:53,956 --> 00:06:55,958
- [Ben] Under your nose.
- [Henry] You know, like,
77
00:06:56,041 --> 00:06:58,043
you did not know
that this ghoul was operating
78
00:06:58,127 --> 00:06:59,711
right next to you.
79
00:07:03,048 --> 00:07:06,969
[Lee] The relics of
Hollywood representations
80
00:07:07,052 --> 00:07:10,180
of serial killers is that
they're kind of like geniuses
81
00:07:10,264 --> 00:07:14,476
who are plotting and scheming
the perfect murder
82
00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:16,687
and building a whole kind of,
like, structure
83
00:07:16,770 --> 00:07:18,438
around getting away with it.
84
00:07:18,522 --> 00:07:20,732
He's an example of somebody
who was not doing that.
85
00:07:20,816 --> 00:07:22,985
He was acting in plain sight.
86
00:07:23,068 --> 00:07:26,029
[dramatic music plays]
87
00:07:34,830 --> 00:07:38,792
[Gein] But I told them
I can't understand it.
88
00:07:38,876 --> 00:07:42,880
[Schechter] No one knew
of the existence of this tape.
89
00:07:42,963 --> 00:07:46,842
Till now, everyone,
and myself included,
90
00:07:46,925 --> 00:07:49,970
believed that his first
confession came much later
91
00:07:50,053 --> 00:07:53,599
than this when he was taken
to the crime lab.
92
00:07:56,185 --> 00:07:59,688
The fact that he was interviewed
in the jail cell
93
00:07:59,771 --> 00:08:02,524
immediately after he was
taken into custody
94
00:08:02,608 --> 00:08:05,110
changes our view of
the whole timeline
95
00:08:05,194 --> 00:08:08,572
and sheds very different
light on the case.
96
00:08:08,655 --> 00:08:14,494
When Sheriff Schley discovered
Bernice Worden's naked corpse
97
00:08:14,578 --> 00:08:17,206
strung up by her heels,
98
00:08:17,289 --> 00:08:20,626
Gein is actually not at home,
99
00:08:20,709 --> 00:08:24,046
but he is at a neighbor's house
having dinner.
100
00:08:24,129 --> 00:08:27,716
One of the... the sons
suddenly comes in
101
00:08:27,799 --> 00:08:33,597
and... and says he's heard that
Bernice Worden has gone missing
102
00:08:33,680 --> 00:08:36,141
and there's a big commotion
in town.
103
00:08:36,225 --> 00:08:38,644
And, you know,
he wants to go into town
104
00:08:38,727 --> 00:08:39,937
and see what's going on.
105
00:08:40,020 --> 00:08:42,272
And... And Ed volunteers
to go with him.
106
00:08:48,654 --> 00:08:52,574
Ed makes some kind of
weird remark at the time,
107
00:08:52,658 --> 00:08:57,955
almost indicating that he knows
something dreadful has happened.
108
00:08:58,038 --> 00:09:00,207
But before the two of them
could leave,
109
00:09:00,290 --> 00:09:04,211
the two deputies who had been
dispatched to the Hills' house
110
00:09:04,294 --> 00:09:07,547
show up,
and they take Gein into custody.
111
00:09:20,352 --> 00:09:24,022
The search of his house
was actually going on
112
00:09:24,106 --> 00:09:26,650
at the time this interview
was taking place.
113
00:09:26,733 --> 00:09:30,028
So the full extent
of Gein's horrors
114
00:09:30,112 --> 00:09:32,656
had not even come to light yet.
115
00:09:50,215 --> 00:09:53,218
[Berrill]
Here's this socially isolated,
116
00:09:53,302 --> 00:09:55,304
clearly disturbed individual.
117
00:09:55,387 --> 00:10:00,225
He finds himself being
questioned by the authorities.
118
00:10:00,309 --> 00:10:03,228
But the people
who are interrogating him,
119
00:10:03,312 --> 00:10:04,896
and I guess
they were trying hard
120
00:10:04,980 --> 00:10:07,274
not to be overly judgmental,
121
00:10:07,357 --> 00:10:08,900
they weren't being
harsh with him
122
00:10:08,984 --> 00:10:11,028
or they weren't threatening him.
123
00:10:11,111 --> 00:10:15,365
But, I mean, he was really
in a kind of odd spot.
124
00:10:15,449 --> 00:10:19,244
All of a sudden, you know,
the truth is revealed.
125
00:10:19,328 --> 00:10:21,997
[Schechter] Much more
would be discovered
126
00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,166
in the coming hours and days
127
00:10:24,249 --> 00:10:27,210
as investigators excavated
128
00:10:27,294 --> 00:10:30,255
this archeological dig in hell,
129
00:10:30,339 --> 00:10:32,799
coming upon
all of these horrors.
130
00:10:32,883 --> 00:10:38,930
Gein had spent years fashioning
these incredibly grotesque
131
00:10:39,014 --> 00:10:43,977
household objects
out of human body parts.
132
00:10:44,061 --> 00:10:48,148
Investigators see objects
and artifacts
133
00:10:48,231 --> 00:10:51,943
that they couldn't
even comprehend.
134
00:10:52,027 --> 00:10:57,115
Would be in that time period
a series of entirely unexpected,
135
00:10:57,199 --> 00:11:01,703
very peculiar,
very bizarre, shocking behavior.
136
00:11:15,050 --> 00:11:18,720
Actually, the dialogue
was relatively placid
137
00:11:18,804 --> 00:11:20,180
and civilized,
138
00:11:20,263 --> 00:11:22,766
given what you imagine
could have happened
139
00:11:22,849 --> 00:11:24,101
back at the police station.
140
00:11:24,184 --> 00:11:27,145
[dramatic music plays]
141
00:11:50,419 --> 00:11:53,797
[Marcus] One of the sheriffs
that spent just six hours
142
00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,133
in that house went back
143
00:11:56,216 --> 00:12:00,429
and physically attacked Ed Gein
in his jail cell
144
00:12:00,512 --> 00:12:03,390
because he was so disturbed
by what he'd seen
145
00:12:03,473 --> 00:12:05,434
and so disturbed
by what Ed Gein's actions
146
00:12:05,517 --> 00:12:06,935
did to him personally.
147
00:12:16,611 --> 00:12:20,157
[Schechter] Schley shows up
and bursts into the cell,
148
00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:21,825
grabs Eddie,
149
00:12:21,908 --> 00:12:25,162
immediately begins
to manhandle him.
150
00:12:25,245 --> 00:12:28,498
Schley was in this
uncontrollable blind rage.
151
00:12:28,582 --> 00:12:32,836
Schley immediately wants to know
who else Gein has killed
152
00:12:32,919 --> 00:12:35,881
and really has to be
pulled off of Gein.
153
00:12:35,964 --> 00:12:38,341
[Lee] Ed Gein
seems like a quiet,
154
00:12:38,425 --> 00:12:39,968
sort of unremarkable person.
155
00:12:40,051 --> 00:12:42,846
And yet when you compare
the image of him
156
00:12:42,929 --> 00:12:47,392
to the stuff that police
found at his house,
157
00:12:47,476 --> 00:12:49,895
it's almost so jarring.
158
00:12:49,978 --> 00:12:52,063
And there... there seems to be
a real disconnect
159
00:12:52,147 --> 00:12:54,107
between his appearance
160
00:12:54,191 --> 00:12:58,028
and the gruesome things that
they discovered at his house.
161
00:12:58,987 --> 00:13:01,323
[Henry] I can't imagine
what it must have been like.
162
00:13:01,406 --> 00:13:05,785
You did not know that this ghoul
was operating right next to you
163
00:13:05,869 --> 00:13:08,246
and he was insinuated
in all of your lives.
164
00:13:08,330 --> 00:13:10,832
And he did all of these things.
165
00:13:10,916 --> 00:13:12,334
They almost probably,
166
00:13:12,417 --> 00:13:14,920
almost equal to Ed don't
want people to know about this.
167
00:13:15,003 --> 00:13:17,130
"Let's not get
into too many details, Ed."
168
00:13:17,214 --> 00:13:18,483
If it's true
that there's a ghoul
169
00:13:18,507 --> 00:13:19,925
in Plainfield, Wisconsin,
170
00:13:20,008 --> 00:13:21,152
then it's also an indictment
on the police.
171
00:13:21,176 --> 00:13:22,844
It's an indictment on everybody.
172
00:13:22,928 --> 00:13:26,556
[dramatic music plays]
173
00:13:30,602 --> 00:13:34,272
[Gein] No, my, uh...
The way I remember,
174
00:13:34,356 --> 00:13:40,946
I think it was two...
Either a day or two after that.
175
00:13:41,029 --> 00:13:43,490
[Weiland] My dad was Art Schley,
176
00:13:43,573 --> 00:13:48,078
County Sheriff
of Waushara County.
177
00:13:48,161 --> 00:13:51,581
We lived in the jail
at the time.
178
00:13:51,665 --> 00:13:56,294
It was no different than
living in a home somewhere.
179
00:13:56,378 --> 00:13:59,589
That was our home,
let's put it that way.
180
00:13:59,673 --> 00:14:03,176
This is a picture of us
in the jail.
181
00:14:03,260 --> 00:14:08,306
It is my mom and myself
and my dad.
182
00:14:08,390 --> 00:14:11,226
And it's in the office.
183
00:14:11,309 --> 00:14:12,936
My bedroom,
184
00:14:13,019 --> 00:14:15,355
if you were to cut
a hole in the wall,
185
00:14:15,438 --> 00:14:19,609
I would have been upstairs
by the bullpen.
186
00:14:19,693 --> 00:14:22,320
When my dad was voted in
as sheriff,
187
00:14:22,404 --> 00:14:25,865
it would have been probably
the summer of '57.
188
00:14:25,949 --> 00:14:28,493
And this case broke
189
00:14:28,577 --> 00:14:31,204
the last part of
November of '57.
190
00:14:31,288 --> 00:14:34,291
He had never had
any law enforcement training
191
00:14:34,374 --> 00:14:35,542
before this.
192
00:14:35,625 --> 00:14:40,005
And so when this
big case came about,
193
00:14:40,088 --> 00:14:42,424
he really didn't have
a lot of experience
194
00:14:42,507 --> 00:14:48,513
or a lot of knowledge on how
to handle something this big.
195
00:14:48,597 --> 00:14:51,641
On the night Ed Gein
was arrested,
196
00:14:51,725 --> 00:14:55,186
I would have been
probably 11 years old.
197
00:14:55,270 --> 00:14:58,481
I was in the sixth grade.
198
00:14:58,565 --> 00:15:00,650
All these men
were sitting in the stairway
199
00:15:00,734 --> 00:15:02,152
and I couldn't get up to bed.
200
00:15:02,235 --> 00:15:03,570
And I said, "Why?"
201
00:15:03,653 --> 00:15:09,534
And that's when I was told
what had happened.
202
00:15:09,618 --> 00:15:15,248
I can't imagine someone being
as normal as he seemed
203
00:15:15,332 --> 00:15:19,544
and yet could do
such horrible things.
204
00:15:19,628 --> 00:15:23,590
Ed was just in the lower level
of the jail.
205
00:15:32,349 --> 00:15:35,477
I can remember Judge Boyd Clark.
206
00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:39,397
He was a very nice-looking,
very nice-appearing man,
207
00:15:39,481 --> 00:15:41,066
had a young family,
208
00:15:41,149 --> 00:15:44,069
and I probably was
at his house at one point.
209
00:15:44,152 --> 00:15:47,197
I actually had a crush
on his son, Nelson Clark.
210
00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,532
[laughs]
211
00:15:57,082 --> 00:15:59,376
I remember Ed Kileen.
212
00:15:59,459 --> 00:16:02,003
He lived right across
the road from us.
213
00:16:11,513 --> 00:16:18,103
People had said my dad
roughed up Ed Gein a little bit.
214
00:16:18,186 --> 00:16:20,605
I heard he grabbed him
by the front of the shirt
215
00:16:20,689 --> 00:16:23,608
and pushed him up against
the... the wall.
216
00:16:23,692 --> 00:16:28,029
My dad was a friend
of Frank Worden
217
00:16:28,113 --> 00:16:31,032
because Frank Worden
was a deputy of his.
218
00:16:31,116 --> 00:16:33,576
And this was his mother.
219
00:16:33,660 --> 00:16:36,579
I guess my dad probably was
just upset to think
220
00:16:36,663 --> 00:16:39,582
one human being could do
something so horrific
221
00:16:39,666 --> 00:16:42,584
to another human being.
222
00:16:42,669 --> 00:16:46,672
I just think maybe it was
a normal reaction as why
223
00:16:46,756 --> 00:16:50,008
or how could you
do something like that?
224
00:16:50,093 --> 00:16:53,012
[dramatic music plays]
225
00:17:15,243 --> 00:17:18,288
You would imagine there
would be an outcry.
226
00:17:18,371 --> 00:17:22,333
"We want to know if Mom
is in her grave or not.
227
00:17:22,417 --> 00:17:25,670
Did this ghoul take her
from her grave?"
228
00:17:25,754 --> 00:17:28,047
Families would raise a fuss.
229
00:17:36,514 --> 00:17:39,559
It is odd that
he could just tell them,
230
00:17:39,642 --> 00:17:41,186
"Well, it's this...
This number,"
231
00:17:41,269 --> 00:17:43,354
and they go,
"Okay, we'll... we'll check two.
232
00:17:43,438 --> 00:17:46,065
We'll accept that...
That everything is accurate
233
00:17:46,149 --> 00:17:47,567
and valid."
234
00:17:47,650 --> 00:17:50,612
So that seems kind of sloppy
and a little weird.
235
00:17:59,204 --> 00:18:02,165
[telephone rings]
236
00:18:06,628 --> 00:18:09,631
[Reid] The phone rang.
237
00:18:09,714 --> 00:18:11,299
We were just finishing up supper
238
00:18:11,382 --> 00:18:14,719
before we went out
to milk the cows.
239
00:18:14,803 --> 00:18:17,847
We found out that Eddie
had been picked up
240
00:18:17,931 --> 00:18:21,267
for killing Mrs. Worden.
241
00:18:21,351 --> 00:18:23,102
It was shocking.
242
00:18:23,186 --> 00:18:25,647
There hadn't been a whole lot
of murders around, you know?
243
00:18:25,730 --> 00:18:28,900
You just wait for the news
to develop, and...
244
00:18:28,983 --> 00:18:30,777
And it did.
It didn't take long.
245
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,283
[dramatic music plays]
246
00:18:44,749 --> 00:18:46,417
I went in to supper.
247
00:18:46,501 --> 00:18:48,378
My sister-in-law, she said,
248
00:18:48,461 --> 00:18:51,130
"Did you know Eddie Gein's
killed Mrs. Worden?"
249
00:18:51,214 --> 00:18:52,507
And I said, "Do you know
250
00:18:52,590 --> 00:18:54,676
that's the biggest damn lie
I ever heard?"
251
00:18:54,759 --> 00:18:56,928
That's just the very words
I said.
252
00:18:57,011 --> 00:18:58,888
How long had you known Mr. Gein?
253
00:18:58,972 --> 00:19:00,431
- Seven years.
- Seven years.
254
00:19:00,515 --> 00:19:02,308
What kind of a man
did you know him as?
255
00:19:02,392 --> 00:19:05,353
Well, a man... a nice man,
256
00:19:05,436 --> 00:19:07,689
just like anybody else.
257
00:19:07,772 --> 00:19:09,607
The only difference
I'd say in the man,
258
00:19:09,691 --> 00:19:11,734
he seems to be little odd.
259
00:19:15,238 --> 00:19:17,740
[Henry]
Think about this also... 1957,
260
00:19:17,824 --> 00:19:19,534
having an actual news reporter
261
00:19:19,617 --> 00:19:22,537
have to say the words
"human skin suit
262
00:19:22,620 --> 00:19:25,874
made from local man's
mother's body."
263
00:19:25,957 --> 00:19:28,710
Like, this... They didn't want
to cover, like,
264
00:19:28,793 --> 00:19:30,670
that there were Black people
in the Olympics.
265
00:19:30,753 --> 00:19:32,380
Like, what are they going to...
266
00:19:32,463 --> 00:19:34,632
Now you have this thing.
They're going to literally,
267
00:19:34,716 --> 00:19:37,677
like, blow your mind
with this piece of information.
268
00:19:39,596 --> 00:19:42,682
The term "serial killer"
doesn't come out for another
269
00:19:42,765 --> 00:19:46,352
20, 30 years
after Ed Gein was caught.
270
00:19:46,436 --> 00:19:51,608
So Ed Gein's arrest
must have been a massive shock
271
00:19:51,691 --> 00:19:54,694
to the American psyche
and to the world.
272
00:19:54,777 --> 00:19:56,821
[Weiland] I don't remember
when I realized
273
00:19:56,905 --> 00:19:58,698
what was really going on.
274
00:19:58,781 --> 00:20:01,534
Probably it had to do
with all the newspaper men,
275
00:20:01,618 --> 00:20:03,953
all the media that was there.
276
00:20:04,037 --> 00:20:06,456
[Marcus] They were
this small farming community,
277
00:20:06,539 --> 00:20:09,208
perfectly happy
with being isolated
278
00:20:09,292 --> 00:20:11,336
and not being known
by the rest of the world.
279
00:20:11,419 --> 00:20:14,464
All of a sudden, they're going
to have to deal with
280
00:20:14,547 --> 00:20:17,550
people like us
driving into their town,
281
00:20:17,634 --> 00:20:20,845
looking around,
going to the graveyard
282
00:20:20,929 --> 00:20:23,890
for the rest
of the town's existence.
283
00:20:23,973 --> 00:20:26,935
Plainfield, Wisconsin,
for as long as America exists,
284
00:20:27,018 --> 00:20:31,606
will be the hometown of Ed Gein,
no matter what.
285
00:20:34,317 --> 00:20:35,693
[Weiland] It was just crazy.
286
00:20:35,777 --> 00:20:38,988
After a while, there was
so much media there.
287
00:20:39,072 --> 00:20:41,532
They'd be sitting on the steps
and we'd have to say,
288
00:20:41,616 --> 00:20:42,909
"Excuse me, can I get upstairs?"
289
00:20:42,992 --> 00:20:45,244
And they'd have to get up
and get out of the way
290
00:20:45,328 --> 00:20:46,746
so we could go upstairs.
291
00:20:46,829 --> 00:20:49,707
And, I mean, they weren't
just sitting one or two of them.
292
00:20:49,791 --> 00:20:52,460
The stairs were full of media.
293
00:20:52,543 --> 00:20:55,838
[reporter] What kind of a man
did you know of Ed Gein as?
294
00:20:55,922 --> 00:21:00,843
Well, rather simple-minded,
295
00:21:00,927 --> 00:21:02,804
but he always...
296
00:21:02,887 --> 00:21:06,349
I always figured
he was just perfectly harmless.
297
00:21:06,432 --> 00:21:08,810
You could be a serial killer
or just kind of gay
298
00:21:08,893 --> 00:21:10,687
and they would be in Wisconsin,
be like,
299
00:21:10,770 --> 00:21:13,523
"He's just a little different.
He's just a little different."
300
00:21:13,606 --> 00:21:15,775
I'd say he was more or less
a pleasant man
301
00:21:15,858 --> 00:21:18,611
who would be nice man to talk to
302
00:21:18,695 --> 00:21:20,780
or somebody
would like to have around.
303
00:21:20,863 --> 00:21:24,033
Seems to be a harmless fella,
you know.
304
00:21:28,788 --> 00:21:31,874
Plainfield...
It's the home of Ed Gein.
305
00:21:31,958 --> 00:21:35,503
It's not on the sign.
But... But it's... it's known.
306
00:21:35,586 --> 00:21:38,673
There are... There are hints
throughout the town.
307
00:21:38,756 --> 00:21:39,841
[Lee] On one hand,
308
00:21:39,924 --> 00:21:42,719
we're horrified
by what happened.
309
00:21:42,802 --> 00:21:45,763
Like footage of, like,
a car accident
310
00:21:45,847 --> 00:21:47,682
or, like, an earthquake is,
311
00:21:47,765 --> 00:21:51,519
on one hand,
just horrifying and scary.
312
00:21:51,602 --> 00:21:55,773
But there's something also
morbidly exciting about that.
313
00:21:55,857 --> 00:21:58,109
And we don't want to look,
314
00:21:58,192 --> 00:22:00,945
but we can't look away
at the same time
315
00:22:01,029 --> 00:22:05,116
because of the nature
of the crimes.
316
00:22:05,199 --> 00:22:08,411
[Schechter] It's been years
since I've been to Plainfield,
317
00:22:08,494 --> 00:22:11,914
but even when I was
researching my book,
318
00:22:11,998 --> 00:22:15,334
it was a sore subject
with a lot of people.
319
00:22:15,418 --> 00:22:18,671
There were people
who had family members
320
00:22:18,755 --> 00:22:21,424
whose bodies had been
exhumed by Gein.
321
00:22:24,093 --> 00:22:28,556
[Reid] You kind of begin
to think about it.
322
00:22:28,639 --> 00:22:30,141
People are talking about it.
323
00:22:30,224 --> 00:22:33,770
That sucker, he's really
kind of a sick devil.
324
00:22:33,853 --> 00:22:35,646
You've heard of people
killing people,
325
00:22:35,730 --> 00:22:38,149
but you don't hear them taking
them in and gutting them out
326
00:22:38,232 --> 00:22:40,026
and all that kind of stuff
that Eddie did.
327
00:22:40,109 --> 00:22:44,781
He was in a box by himself
when it come to his murders.
328
00:22:47,075 --> 00:22:49,660
If you drive around the country,
329
00:22:49,744 --> 00:22:54,040
there are all these small towns
that take civic pride
330
00:22:54,123 --> 00:22:57,001
in being home to whatever.
331
00:22:57,085 --> 00:22:58,961
Plainfield was suddenly like,
332
00:22:59,045 --> 00:23:03,049
"This is the town where Ed Gein
committed his crimes."
333
00:23:09,097 --> 00:23:12,850
[Weiland] Here's a picture of
my grandpa and grandma's car
334
00:23:12,934 --> 00:23:15,895
that my dad would use
at times to take Ed Gein
335
00:23:15,978 --> 00:23:18,189
to different appointments
or something
336
00:23:18,272 --> 00:23:21,484
when he thought maybe he'd be
followed or something like that.
337
00:23:38,751 --> 00:23:42,964
Okay. My dad is opening
the door for Ed Gein.
338
00:23:44,507 --> 00:23:46,008
Yes.
339
00:23:47,802 --> 00:23:48,886
Yeah.
340
00:23:48,970 --> 00:23:52,557
Ed's covering his face.
341
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,811
Ed was always a very polite man.
342
00:23:56,894 --> 00:23:59,939
My mother made the meals
and done the laundry,
343
00:24:00,022 --> 00:24:03,151
and we would help
take the meals down.
344
00:24:06,863 --> 00:24:09,866
And when we take
the food tray in to him,
345
00:24:09,949 --> 00:24:13,202
he'd always thank us
for bringing it.
346
00:24:13,286 --> 00:24:15,788
I don't know
what to say about him.
347
00:24:15,872 --> 00:24:18,916
Saying the man is a nice man
when he done what he done...
348
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:20,501
It's a terrible thing for him.
349
00:24:20,585 --> 00:24:23,045
It's a terrible thing
for the people involved.
350
00:24:23,129 --> 00:24:24,672
And it was a terrible thing
351
00:24:24,755 --> 00:24:27,758
for the... for the whole
community of Plainfield.
352
00:24:27,842 --> 00:24:30,678
[dramatic music plays]
353
00:24:47,862 --> 00:24:50,031
[Schechter] After Ed's arrest,
354
00:24:50,114 --> 00:24:51,949
he was declared
mentally incompetent
355
00:24:52,033 --> 00:24:55,578
and consigned
to a mental institution.
356
00:24:55,661 --> 00:24:59,248
[Berrill] Competency is not
the same thing as insanity.
357
00:24:59,332 --> 00:25:02,126
Competency is really
can you understand
358
00:25:02,210 --> 00:25:04,587
the meaning of your charges.
359
00:25:04,670 --> 00:25:09,550
Can you participate in a knowing
manner with your attorney
360
00:25:09,634 --> 00:25:11,135
and your own defense?
361
00:25:11,219 --> 00:25:14,513
Are you fit to proceed to trial?
362
00:25:14,597 --> 00:25:17,975
It's no shock that he'd wind up
in a hospital.
363
00:25:18,059 --> 00:25:21,938
The crimes are too weird.
They're too violent.
364
00:25:22,021 --> 00:25:23,814
They're peculiar.
365
00:25:23,898 --> 00:25:28,653
Had it been something like
a sexual assault or a murder,
366
00:25:28,736 --> 00:25:31,239
the commission of a...
A robbery,
367
00:25:31,322 --> 00:25:33,991
they would have just
thrown him in prison.
368
00:25:34,075 --> 00:25:37,578
But this stuff that he did
was just too unthinkable
369
00:25:37,662 --> 00:25:39,163
and too weird.
370
00:25:39,247 --> 00:25:43,626
And, you know, my rule of thumb
is if it scares a jury,
371
00:25:43,709 --> 00:25:45,586
you're going to the hospital.
372
00:25:50,007 --> 00:25:53,636
I'm looking at
Edward Gein's records
373
00:25:53,719 --> 00:25:56,597
from Central State Hospital,
374
00:25:56,681 --> 00:25:59,809
and this reflects his intake.
375
00:26:01,769 --> 00:26:05,690
What is interesting and
consistent with his interview
376
00:26:05,773 --> 00:26:11,904
at the police station is that
he was found to be coherent.
377
00:26:11,988 --> 00:26:14,991
The records
are very descriptive,
378
00:26:15,074 --> 00:26:18,786
but also in some respects
contradictory.
379
00:26:18,869 --> 00:26:22,081
I mean, on one hand, they talk
about his train of thought
380
00:26:22,164 --> 00:26:26,210
as coherent and relevant,
but sometimes illogical.
381
00:26:26,294 --> 00:26:29,088
Now, I don't know
what that means.
382
00:26:29,171 --> 00:26:32,383
That seems to be
an implicit contradiction.
383
00:26:32,466 --> 00:26:36,053
They also say
that he experiences visual
384
00:26:36,137 --> 00:26:39,181
and auditory hallucinations,
385
00:26:39,265 --> 00:26:43,811
and yet they then go on
to say it's uncertain
386
00:26:43,894 --> 00:26:48,733
if these should be designated
as overt hallucinations.
387
00:26:48,816 --> 00:26:52,028
Well, I don't know
what you would call them.
388
00:26:52,111 --> 00:26:54,739
There's only two questions
you can ask.
389
00:26:54,822 --> 00:26:57,158
Is it real or is it not real?
390
00:26:57,241 --> 00:26:59,076
They even are curious
about whether or not
391
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:03,331
he found the bodies
sexually stimulating.
392
00:27:03,414 --> 00:27:06,250
And there's some speculation
about that.
393
00:27:06,334 --> 00:27:09,003
But I don't see anything
where he says
394
00:27:09,086 --> 00:27:14,091
that he found the bodies
sexually stimulating.
395
00:27:14,175 --> 00:27:17,345
Though he's not providing
much of an explanation
396
00:27:17,428 --> 00:27:22,183
for his own conduct
as to what motivates him.
397
00:27:22,266 --> 00:27:24,101
It's my sense that
they don't have, like,
398
00:27:24,185 --> 00:27:28,356
a really great idea
about who this guy is
399
00:27:28,439 --> 00:27:32,026
and what would have motivated
him to do what he does.
400
00:27:32,109 --> 00:27:34,153
They're hedging their bets.
401
00:27:34,236 --> 00:27:36,280
They're not really
sure themselves
402
00:27:36,364 --> 00:27:39,825
and they probably never saw
anything like this.
403
00:27:42,411 --> 00:27:45,831
[Sherman] I was
a consulting psychologist
404
00:27:45,915 --> 00:27:48,334
at Central State Hospital
405
00:27:48,417 --> 00:27:54,924
where, in the early 1970s,
I had an encounter with Ed Gein.
406
00:27:55,007 --> 00:27:57,843
And I must say it was memorable.
407
00:28:02,306 --> 00:28:07,186
I was there working hard
in this office.
408
00:28:07,269 --> 00:28:10,314
I was writing away at the desk.
409
00:28:10,398 --> 00:28:11,398
[typewriter clacking]
410
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:12,900
[clattering]
411
00:28:12,983 --> 00:28:16,821
I heard this noise behind me.
412
00:28:16,904 --> 00:28:21,742
I just kept on working because
I was used to distractions.
413
00:28:21,826 --> 00:28:26,163
But then I got thirsty,
and so I went out in the hall.
414
00:28:26,247 --> 00:28:29,375
I saw Dr. Schubert.
415
00:28:29,458 --> 00:28:34,004
And he said to me,
"Did you meet Mr. Gein?"
416
00:28:34,088 --> 00:28:36,757
And I turned around.
417
00:28:36,841 --> 00:28:40,010
There was Mr. Gein.
418
00:28:40,094 --> 00:28:44,140
He wasn't very tall, white hair,
419
00:28:44,223 --> 00:28:49,019
and he had these tools,
a hammer and saw.
420
00:28:49,103 --> 00:28:53,858
He'd been trying to put up
a partition behind me.
421
00:28:53,941 --> 00:28:57,111
I just about fainted.
422
00:28:57,194 --> 00:28:59,530
Dr. Schubert goes,
423
00:28:59,613 --> 00:29:03,367
"I guess he was taking
your measure."
424
00:29:03,451 --> 00:29:05,035
He was referring to the idea
425
00:29:05,119 --> 00:29:09,331
that Gein had skinned
various women and made,
426
00:29:09,415 --> 00:29:13,961
you know, like,
lampshades out of them.
427
00:29:14,044 --> 00:29:18,424
I was really upset that
Dr. Schubert would do this.
428
00:29:18,507 --> 00:29:22,219
I complained to the other people
that worked there
429
00:29:22,303 --> 00:29:25,890
and they said,
"Oh, Gein's harmless."
430
00:29:25,973 --> 00:29:30,227
And there wasn't
anything malicious in his eyes.
431
00:29:30,311 --> 00:29:34,773
It was only some confusion
and concern.
432
00:29:58,589 --> 00:30:03,260
People in general felt
kind of sorry for him.
433
00:30:03,344 --> 00:30:08,098
It was an odd contrast
in terms of this little old man
434
00:30:08,182 --> 00:30:12,394
that evoked pity
and such sensational crimes.
435
00:30:15,940 --> 00:30:22,613
I later asked Dr. Schubert
why Gein had done these things.
436
00:30:22,696 --> 00:30:26,283
He said that as far
as he could figure,
437
00:30:26,367 --> 00:30:31,956
that Gein was trying
to reconstitute his dead mother.
438
00:30:32,039 --> 00:30:35,251
Now, how he would do that,
I don't know.
439
00:30:35,334 --> 00:30:38,879
But of course,
the man was crazy.
440
00:30:38,963 --> 00:30:41,924
[dramatic music plays]
441
00:30:58,941 --> 00:31:01,068
[Gillard] This is my copy
of the novel Psycho.
442
00:31:01,151 --> 00:31:03,195
It's a first edition.
443
00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:04,488
Very happy to have a chance
444
00:31:04,572 --> 00:31:06,615
to read the first edition
as it came out.
445
00:31:06,699 --> 00:31:08,576
This is before
the film came out.
446
00:31:08,659 --> 00:31:10,286
This is as it appeared
447
00:31:10,369 --> 00:31:12,955
before all the fame
and... and the hoopla.
448
00:31:14,999 --> 00:31:19,420
Robert Bloch is perhaps the best
known writer of horror fiction
449
00:31:19,503 --> 00:31:23,257
through the middle part
of the 20th century.
450
00:31:23,340 --> 00:31:25,426
There's a quote
by Stephen King saying,
451
00:31:25,509 --> 00:31:27,344
"There was nobody better
than Bloch,
452
00:31:27,428 --> 00:31:28,679
nobody more prolific,
453
00:31:28,762 --> 00:31:32,349
nobody more profoundly
influential."
454
00:31:32,433 --> 00:31:36,312
[Bloch] And when I graduated
from high school in 1934,
455
00:31:36,395 --> 00:31:40,107
I sat down and started to write
professionally.
456
00:31:40,190 --> 00:31:43,027
Sold my first story
six weeks later.
457
00:31:43,110 --> 00:31:47,323
I was 17 then and I didn't
have enough sense to quit.
458
00:31:49,116 --> 00:31:52,077
One of the great
contributions that Bloch made
459
00:31:52,161 --> 00:31:53,621
to the horror genre
460
00:31:53,704 --> 00:31:57,458
was that he realized
that what is between the ears
461
00:31:57,541 --> 00:31:59,043
can be much more horrible
462
00:31:59,126 --> 00:32:01,712
than what's out there
rustling in the night.
463
00:32:01,795 --> 00:32:07,426
Bloch idolized H. P. Lovecraft,
who was 27 years his senior
464
00:32:07,509 --> 00:32:10,304
and who would die
at a young age.
465
00:32:10,387 --> 00:32:12,973
Bloch started off writing
that kind of supernatural horror
466
00:32:13,057 --> 00:32:16,560
that H. P. Lovecraft
is so well-known for.
467
00:32:16,644 --> 00:32:18,979
But there was a change
for Bloch.
468
00:32:19,063 --> 00:32:22,608
He started reading
psychology textbooks,
469
00:32:22,691 --> 00:32:26,654
books by psychologists
about the craft of psychology.
470
00:32:26,737 --> 00:32:30,407
And so he made a shift,
late '40s, early '50s,
471
00:32:30,491 --> 00:32:33,327
into writing
psychological horror,
472
00:32:33,410 --> 00:32:37,414
as we see exemplified in Psycho.
473
00:32:37,498 --> 00:32:39,643
[Szczepaniak-Gillece] We have
this morass of things happening
474
00:32:39,667 --> 00:32:41,627
at the end of the 1950s
475
00:32:41,710 --> 00:32:44,546
alongside interest
in psychology,
476
00:32:44,630 --> 00:32:46,382
interest in psychoanalysis,
477
00:32:46,465 --> 00:32:48,676
interest in theories
around trauma,
478
00:32:48,759 --> 00:32:52,304
interest in what does
the family structure mean?
479
00:32:52,388 --> 00:32:54,139
And that, I think,
makes it a perfect,
480
00:32:54,223 --> 00:32:56,308
perfect moment for Psycho
481
00:32:56,392 --> 00:32:58,227
to really take
the country by storm.
482
00:33:02,690 --> 00:33:06,485
[Gillard] Bloch himself was in
small-town Wisconsin
483
00:33:06,568 --> 00:33:09,446
when this small-town
Wisconsin horror story
484
00:33:09,530 --> 00:33:14,243
was being exposed to the world.
485
00:33:14,326 --> 00:33:16,120
[Bloch] That was the reason
for the book.
486
00:33:16,203 --> 00:33:17,996
When I heard of the Gein case,
487
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:19,998
I didn't hear anything
about the details,
488
00:33:20,082 --> 00:33:23,627
but I did hear about
an apparently ordinary man
489
00:33:23,711 --> 00:33:26,630
living an ordinary life
in a very small town
490
00:33:26,714 --> 00:33:30,634
where he had been observed
by his neighbors for many years
491
00:33:30,718 --> 00:33:32,594
and never suspected
of his crimes.
492
00:33:32,678 --> 00:33:35,139
And I said, "That's the story."
493
00:33:35,222 --> 00:33:39,101
[man] He was a nice man,
just like anybody else.
494
00:33:39,184 --> 00:33:41,270
[man #2] Perfectly harmless.
495
00:33:41,353 --> 00:33:43,522
[Bloch] I'm going to write
a story about
496
00:33:43,605 --> 00:33:46,608
a man in a similar situation.
Point out to people
497
00:33:46,692 --> 00:33:50,362
that they don't necessarily
know their neighbors
498
00:33:50,445 --> 00:33:53,615
or the people that
they come in contact with.
499
00:33:53,699 --> 00:33:59,121
And that, to me,
is truly horrifying.
500
00:33:59,204 --> 00:34:02,332
[Gillard] For Bloch, the idea
that this could be happening
501
00:34:02,416 --> 00:34:05,669
in a small town
in the middle of Wisconsin
502
00:34:05,753 --> 00:34:08,130
where everybody knows
everybody's business
503
00:34:08,213 --> 00:34:11,133
just absolutely fascinated him.
504
00:34:11,215 --> 00:34:14,762
It fit in really well with his
ideas of psychological horror
505
00:34:14,845 --> 00:34:17,389
that the person
you should be afraid of
506
00:34:17,472 --> 00:34:20,392
is not the werewolf
howling at the moon
507
00:34:20,476 --> 00:34:22,478
or some sort of
supernatural monster
508
00:34:22,561 --> 00:34:24,646
that will come at you
in the night.
509
00:34:24,730 --> 00:34:27,816
It's the guy sitting a couple
seats behind you on the bus.
510
00:34:27,900 --> 00:34:30,527
And why is he coming after you?
511
00:34:30,611 --> 00:34:32,237
Maybe there's no reason.
512
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,531
Maybe he's just
coming after you.
513
00:34:34,615 --> 00:34:37,409
[dramatic music plays]
514
00:34:40,621 --> 00:34:44,166
The life of a pulp fiction
writer during this era,
515
00:34:44,249 --> 00:34:48,545
the idea wasn't necessarily to
create great art all the time.
516
00:34:48,629 --> 00:34:51,381
It was to sell your story,
get the small payday,
517
00:34:51,465 --> 00:34:55,761
sell another story,
get the small payday.
518
00:34:55,844 --> 00:34:58,597
Bloch reported that
it took him seven weeks
519
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:00,849
from start to finish
with Psycho,
520
00:35:00,933 --> 00:35:04,228
which is an amazingly
kind of brief period of time
521
00:35:04,311 --> 00:35:06,730
if you've ever tried
to write a novel.
522
00:35:06,814 --> 00:35:09,858
But he was also
of the generation
523
00:35:09,942 --> 00:35:15,197
for whom being prolific
was the way to sleep indoors
524
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,616
and eat every once in a while.
525
00:35:17,699 --> 00:35:22,120
[Bloch] It is primarily a story
of a girl with a secret.
526
00:35:22,204 --> 00:35:27,835
She's just stolen $40,000
from her employer.
527
00:35:27,918 --> 00:35:29,711
And it's about a young man
528
00:35:29,795 --> 00:35:33,257
who leads a tortured secret life
529
00:35:33,340 --> 00:35:37,135
so secret that he himself
is not aware of it.
530
00:35:37,219 --> 00:35:42,599
And it is about the buried and
exhumed secrets of his mother.
531
00:35:42,683 --> 00:35:44,810
[Szczepaniak-Gillece]
Norman Bates, on the surface,
532
00:35:44,893 --> 00:35:47,688
he seems sweet,
he seems vulnerable.
533
00:35:47,771 --> 00:35:49,606
But underneath the surface,
534
00:35:49,690 --> 00:35:51,275
there's all kinds
of things roiling.
535
00:35:51,358 --> 00:35:52,752
There's all kinds
of dark psychology
536
00:35:52,776 --> 00:35:54,570
that's all wrapped up in,
537
00:35:54,653 --> 00:35:58,532
of course, his obsessive
relationship to his dead mother.
538
00:36:01,702 --> 00:36:05,455
[Gillard] Bloch considered
many titles for the novel.
539
00:36:05,539 --> 00:36:10,627
He was inspired by words
like psychology
540
00:36:10,711 --> 00:36:12,838
and psychoanalysis.
541
00:36:15,257 --> 00:36:18,302
It's about being
a psychotic, right?
542
00:36:18,385 --> 00:36:20,304
It's about somebody
being a psychopath.
543
00:36:20,387 --> 00:36:23,515
And that is really different
from just saying
544
00:36:23,599 --> 00:36:25,475
"This monster is outlandish.
545
00:36:25,559 --> 00:36:29,730
This monster can never happen."
546
00:36:29,813 --> 00:36:32,858
Here we have a monster
who is defined
547
00:36:32,941 --> 00:36:35,360
by the inner workings
of his brain.
548
00:36:35,444 --> 00:36:37,613
[Narrator] Today, organizations
of specialists
549
00:36:37,696 --> 00:36:39,323
in mental medicine
550
00:36:39,406 --> 00:36:41,366
like the New York
Psychoanalytic Institute,
551
00:36:41,450 --> 00:36:43,577
have helped to gain
general medical acceptance
552
00:36:43,660 --> 00:36:46,413
for such doctrines,
considered a radical departure
553
00:36:46,496 --> 00:36:49,499
when first advanced
by Dr. Sigmund Freud of Vienna
554
00:36:49,583 --> 00:36:52,294
some 50 years ago.
555
00:36:52,377 --> 00:36:55,589
[Gillard] It gets us toward
a variety of mental illnesses,
556
00:36:55,672 --> 00:36:58,342
including some pretty violent
and gruesome ones
557
00:36:58,425 --> 00:37:02,638
that perhaps the Ed Gein story
brought up in Bloch's mind.
558
00:37:02,721 --> 00:37:05,682
[dramatic music plays]
559
00:37:13,607 --> 00:37:17,361
Psycho didn't sell
particularly in any way
560
00:37:17,444 --> 00:37:20,030
that was different
from his previous work,
561
00:37:20,113 --> 00:37:23,283
but it did attract the...
The attention of
562
00:37:23,367 --> 00:37:24,993
a film production company.
563
00:37:25,077 --> 00:37:27,704
They didn't accept the first
offer from this film company
564
00:37:27,788 --> 00:37:29,539
that they had never heard of.
565
00:37:29,623 --> 00:37:32,376
They accepted the second offer,
which was for $9,500,
566
00:37:32,459 --> 00:37:34,962
and Bloch's cut was about $6,000
for that,
567
00:37:35,045 --> 00:37:39,257
which is a nice payday
for a writer of pulp fiction.
568
00:37:39,341 --> 00:37:42,678
Bloch was fairly convinced
that it was unfilmable,
569
00:37:42,761 --> 00:37:46,056
partly the way that the
narrative is kind of structured.
570
00:37:46,139 --> 00:37:48,976
We have this main character
in the novel.
571
00:37:49,059 --> 00:37:53,021
She dies, and you're less
than halfway through the novel.
572
00:37:53,105 --> 00:37:56,608
And so the idea that...
That this could be filmable
573
00:37:56,692 --> 00:37:58,902
successfully,
given a Hollywood formula,
574
00:37:58,986 --> 00:38:02,656
Bloch was just really
kind of doubtful about that.
575
00:38:02,739 --> 00:38:04,574
And then he found out
that the film company
576
00:38:04,658 --> 00:38:06,076
was actually Alfred Hitchcock,
577
00:38:06,159 --> 00:38:10,038
who was looking
for his next film.
578
00:38:10,122 --> 00:38:12,457
[Szczepaniak-Gillece]
Hitchcock started in England.
579
00:38:12,541 --> 00:38:14,459
He was a British director.
580
00:38:14,543 --> 00:38:17,754
Eventually he comes over to
the States to make movies here,
581
00:38:17,838 --> 00:38:19,840
and that's really
where he experiences
582
00:38:19,923 --> 00:38:23,593
the vast majority
of his success.
583
00:38:23,677 --> 00:38:26,054
And when he makes Psycho
in 1960,
584
00:38:26,138 --> 00:38:29,516
he really hadn't made
a straight-up horror movie.
585
00:38:29,599 --> 00:38:32,352
That was really the first time
that he had done something
586
00:38:32,436 --> 00:38:36,481
in that extreme horror genre.
587
00:38:36,565 --> 00:38:40,110
[Gillard] Hitchcock was on
a tremendous roll at that point.
588
00:38:40,193 --> 00:38:42,863
This is just
after North by Northwest.
589
00:38:42,946 --> 00:38:44,990
Maybe the...
The rights conversation
590
00:38:45,073 --> 00:38:46,575
would have been
a little different
591
00:38:46,658 --> 00:38:49,661
had Bloch's agent
done a bit more homework
592
00:38:49,745 --> 00:38:51,788
before signing away the rights.
593
00:38:51,872 --> 00:38:56,418
[Hitchcock] The power of cinema
in its purest form is so vast
594
00:38:56,501 --> 00:39:00,464
because it can go over the
whole world on a given night.
595
00:39:00,547 --> 00:39:06,470
A film could play in Tokyo,
West Berlin, London, New York.
596
00:39:06,553 --> 00:39:10,474
And the same audience
is responding emotionally
597
00:39:10,557 --> 00:39:12,392
to the same things.
598
00:39:12,476 --> 00:39:15,395
And no other medium can do this.
599
00:39:15,479 --> 00:39:17,898
- Dirty night.
- Do you have a vacancy?
600
00:39:17,981 --> 00:39:20,400
Oh, we have 12 vacancies.
601
00:39:20,484 --> 00:39:26,656
Psycho the novel
bears a tremendous resemblance
602
00:39:26,740 --> 00:39:28,158
to Psycho the film.
603
00:39:28,241 --> 00:39:30,952
But one of the interesting
changes that happened
604
00:39:31,036 --> 00:39:32,537
between the novel
605
00:39:32,621 --> 00:39:35,582
and Hitchcock's
interpretation of the novel
606
00:39:35,665 --> 00:39:38,835
was that Norman Bates
changed subtly.
607
00:39:38,919 --> 00:39:42,672
In the novel,
he's probably 20 years older.
608
00:39:42,756 --> 00:39:44,549
He doesn't look like
the young Hollywood
609
00:39:44,633 --> 00:39:46,802
leading man of Anthony Perkins,
that's for sure.
610
00:39:46,885 --> 00:39:48,720
He's described as balding
and overweight
611
00:39:48,804 --> 00:39:50,764
with an alcohol problem.
612
00:39:50,847 --> 00:39:53,642
Do you go out with friends?
613
00:39:53,725 --> 00:39:55,894
Well, a... a boy's best friend
is his mother.
614
00:39:55,977 --> 00:39:57,205
[Szczepaniak-Gillece]
Norman Bates
615
00:39:57,229 --> 00:39:59,773
can never be separated
from Tony Perkins,
616
00:39:59,856 --> 00:40:02,943
who, of course, plays him
and plays him so beautifully
617
00:40:03,026 --> 00:40:05,028
as this kind
of vulnerable character
618
00:40:05,112 --> 00:40:09,157
who also houses
significant darkness.
619
00:40:09,241 --> 00:40:14,663
But then that also was in some
parts influenced by Ed Gein.
620
00:40:14,746 --> 00:40:17,791
[Weiland] Ed Gein had
a little round face.
621
00:40:17,874 --> 00:40:20,502
He always would wear,
like, a baseball hat.
622
00:40:20,585 --> 00:40:23,797
He'd always thank us or,
you know, always say something,
623
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,675
greet us in some way, usually.
624
00:40:26,758 --> 00:40:28,969
Just a nice little
old man, really.
625
00:40:29,052 --> 00:40:31,054
He really was, just like
all the people said.
626
00:40:31,138 --> 00:40:34,474
You couldn't believe that he
would do anything that gruesome.
627
00:40:34,558 --> 00:40:37,561
I don't know if he snapped
or why he would do what he did,
628
00:40:37,644 --> 00:40:39,771
but I don't know.
629
00:40:42,816 --> 00:40:44,776
[Gillard] The very, very famous
shower scene,
630
00:40:44,860 --> 00:40:47,612
which occurs on page 39
out of 180 pages
631
00:40:47,696 --> 00:40:49,656
in this edition of the novel,
632
00:40:49,739 --> 00:40:52,993
it comes and goes very quickly.
633
00:40:53,076 --> 00:40:55,871
The economy of language
is stunning in this.
634
00:40:55,954 --> 00:40:58,123
You read the novel and you look
at that shower scene,
635
00:40:58,206 --> 00:41:01,668
the shower scene is
very, very, very brief.
636
00:41:01,751 --> 00:41:03,044
And it ends a section
637
00:41:03,128 --> 00:41:05,505
and it's just a series
of very short sentences,
638
00:41:05,589 --> 00:41:07,674
declarative sentences,
639
00:41:07,757 --> 00:41:10,218
and it comes and goes
so quickly.
640
00:41:10,302 --> 00:41:12,053
But it's shocking.
641
00:41:14,890 --> 00:41:16,600
It's the economy of language
642
00:41:16,683 --> 00:41:19,269
that creates the horror
for Bloch in that scene.
643
00:41:19,352 --> 00:41:22,564
The last four lines
of this chapter,
644
00:41:22,647 --> 00:41:25,066
"Mary started to scream,
645
00:41:25,150 --> 00:41:27,277
the curtains parted further,
646
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:31,698
and a hand appeared,
holding a butcher knife.
647
00:41:31,781 --> 00:41:37,204
It was the knife that, a moment
later, cut off her scream.
648
00:41:37,287 --> 00:41:38,872
And her head."
649
00:41:38,955 --> 00:41:41,166
And that's the end
of the chapter.
650
00:41:43,710 --> 00:41:46,671
[mid-tempo music plays]
651
00:41:46,695 --> 00:41:48,695
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