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The end of the 1950s,
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that's a time that
we generally associate
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with this kind of perfect ideal
of the American suburb.
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2.5 children, the picket fence,
the husband going off to work,
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the woman staying at home
and tending the family.
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What's new, Hasbro?
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Mr. and Mrs. Potato Head,
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with their own cars
and trailers.
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That's what's new.
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Was that in reality,
what was actually happening
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the entire time?
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Of course not. Of course not.
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In 1957, this small-town
Wisconsin horror story
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was being exposed to the world.
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The shock and the fear
that suddenly gripped them
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when the grisly tale
of Ed Gein became public.
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When you listen
to the tape of Ed Gein,
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you almost anticipate hearing
somebody act like a monster.
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There seems to be
a real disconnect
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between this meek,
quiet, solitary person
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and the gruesome things that
they've discovered at his house.
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There's a number of questions
when you analyze the Gein case.
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Did he have sexual relations
with the bodies?
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Could he have eaten
some of the victims?
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00:02:51,297 --> 00:02:55,301
There's very little that Gein
is not capable of.
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Ed Gein's story
is just so gruesome.
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Most people can't imagine
what it would be like
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to excavate a corpse
from the ground
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and then take the head
and the skull
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and then create objects
out of the parts
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that you take
from a rotten corpse.
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I'm looking at
additional records,
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00:04:37,486 --> 00:04:39,571
maybe a little deeper
into the records
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based on his initial
examination and evaluation
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at Central State Hospital.
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Edward Gein talks
about constructing masks
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out of the skin from the skulls
of some of the people he dug up.
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00:05:00,801 --> 00:05:06,306
And then putting these masks
on his own face.
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One could conjecture that
in doing so,
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that is to say,
putting these masks on,
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is this a way
of transforming himself
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00:05:34,543 --> 00:05:37,463
or being a different person
for a moment?
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00:05:37,546 --> 00:05:41,967
Is this a way of relating
to the corpses
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and becoming intimate with them?
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He doesn't really talk about
being sickened by the behavior.
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So clearly this had
meaning for him
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and this was important to him.
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00:06:03,697 --> 00:06:07,826
We know that he had
these face masks.
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Some of which he hung
on his wall as trophies.
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00:06:12,706 --> 00:06:14,917
You know, this is
where Tobe Hooper
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00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:18,504
got the whole
Leatherface idea from.
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00:06:23,759 --> 00:06:26,762
I remember watching
Texas Chainsaw Massacre
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for the first time
when I was in high school.
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The thing that always
stood out to me
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was the grittiness
of how it was shot.
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00:06:37,606 --> 00:06:41,401
And the fact that it seemed
almost in parts
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like a snuff video.
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00:06:44,196 --> 00:06:47,116
The fact that Leatherface,
the character was loosely
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00:06:47,199 --> 00:06:51,870
based on Ed Gein and because of
the kind of things that he was
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00:06:51,954 --> 00:06:54,039
doing with people's skin.
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00:06:56,959 --> 00:07:00,712
The house that Texas Chainsaw
Massacre is modeled upon...
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was the home of Ed Gein.
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00:07:08,679 --> 00:07:11,056
The word that people
used over and over again
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00:07:11,140 --> 00:07:15,227
after they discovered
the house was "revolting."
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There's something about
his home to me
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is very indicative
of who he was, too.
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00:07:22,568 --> 00:07:24,653
There's just something
about serial killers
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00:07:24,736 --> 00:07:28,115
and kind of like what their
homes come to represent to them.
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00:07:28,198 --> 00:07:30,742
Like there's a house out there
where there shouldn't be.
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00:07:30,826 --> 00:07:32,578
And there's also a bunch
of fucked up stuff
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happening inside of that house
where it shouldn't be.
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I love this shot where Pamela
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is walking up to the house
for the first time.
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It's shot almost
at ground level.
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We have lots of camera movement
as she's walking in,
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00:08:01,148 --> 00:08:05,027
and now she's about to enter
this really, really awful room,
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the room that is, of course,
drawing in large part
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00:08:07,863 --> 00:08:11,783
on what Ed Gein's house
would have looked like.
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00:08:17,039 --> 00:08:20,751
There is so much about
Texas Chainsaw Massacre
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00:08:20,834 --> 00:08:24,296
that just feels so gritty,
so grimy,
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and like you are stuck
in this house
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with this entire horrifying
family and you can't get out.
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00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,640
That to me was so much
of what made it so scary.
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It felt completely immersive
because it felt so urgent,
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so real.
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The other reason
that it's so urgent,
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00:08:43,815 --> 00:08:46,068
it's so visceral,
it's so upsetting
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is because not only
is it based on a real moment,
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but the house that Tobe Hooper
and the crew
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00:08:54,326 --> 00:08:56,745
used to shoot
Texas Chainsaw Massacre,
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well, they had filled it
with all of these animal parts,
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00:09:00,123 --> 00:09:02,960
and these animal parts
were sitting there for days.
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00:09:06,046 --> 00:09:07,886
She's really experiencing
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00:09:07,965 --> 00:09:11,218
what it's like to be in a room
with all of those dead animals,
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00:09:11,301 --> 00:09:15,222
all of those bits
of rotting animals.
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00:09:17,099 --> 00:09:19,643
And of
course, she's trying to get away
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00:09:19,726 --> 00:09:21,955
from all of these horrors,
this is, of course, the moment
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00:09:21,979 --> 00:09:24,022
when Leatherface comes out.
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He's called Leatherface because
he has a collection of masks
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that he has made
out of human skin.
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That's the thing that really
sticks out to me
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in terms of Ed Gein.
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It's the fact that he repurposed
people's bodies.
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00:09:44,793 --> 00:09:48,088
And that's what's
so upsetting about him.
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00:10:49,274 --> 00:10:52,069
What makes Gein
stand out is what he did
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00:10:52,152 --> 00:10:53,445
with the bodies.
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00:10:53,528 --> 00:10:56,198
If you look at a group
of sexual murderers,
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only about 6%
have engaged in necrophilia.
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00:11:03,205 --> 00:11:06,291
Police say these two
young men have committed an act
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00:11:06,375 --> 00:11:10,379
that is so unthinkable there
isn't even a law against it.
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00:11:10,462 --> 00:11:15,342
The men allegedly sexually
assaulted two female corpses.
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00:11:15,425 --> 00:11:18,220
Webster's Dictionary
describes necrophilia
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00:11:18,303 --> 00:11:21,807
as "an erotic attraction
to corpses."
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00:11:21,890 --> 00:11:23,683
Necrophilia is a paraphilia.
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00:11:23,767 --> 00:11:26,228
It's an abnormal
sexual arousal pattern.
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00:11:26,311 --> 00:11:29,106
There's many different types
of paraphilias.
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00:11:29,189 --> 00:11:30,982
Pedophilia is a paraphilia.
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00:11:31,066 --> 00:11:34,486
Fetishism, sexual arousal
to non-living objects
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00:11:34,569 --> 00:11:35,862
is a paraphilia.
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00:11:35,946 --> 00:11:37,155
Voyeurism.
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00:11:37,239 --> 00:11:39,241
Necrophilia is
another paraphilia.
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00:11:39,324 --> 00:11:42,077
Historically, law enforcers
here in Florida charged
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necrophiliacs
with sexual battery.
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00:11:44,913 --> 00:11:47,332
That is until a few years ago
when a circuit court
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00:11:47,416 --> 00:11:50,210
in South Florida ruled that
consent is no longer
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00:11:50,293 --> 00:11:53,046
an issue if a person is dead.
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00:11:54,214 --> 00:11:58,427
We understand the
psychopathology of sexual murder
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00:11:58,510 --> 00:12:01,721
and all these other sorts
of bizarre paraphilias
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00:12:01,805 --> 00:12:05,350
much better today
than they did in the 1950s.
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00:12:05,434 --> 00:12:08,228
Every mental illness
has its causes associated
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00:12:08,311 --> 00:12:10,897
with a patient's character,
his upbringing,
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00:12:10,981 --> 00:12:13,400
and the joys and sorrows
he has gone through.
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00:12:15,318 --> 00:12:18,196
The motivation for
the vast majority of
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00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:23,994
necrophiliacs is that
a dead body is not threatening.
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00:12:24,870 --> 00:12:28,123
Because these are people
internally that feel weak
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00:12:28,206 --> 00:12:31,042
and inadequate.
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00:12:31,126 --> 00:12:34,212
The vast majority of offenders
kill the person,
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00:12:34,296 --> 00:12:37,215
then for some reason, they're
stimulated by the dead body
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00:12:37,299 --> 00:12:38,884
and penetrate the body.
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00:12:38,967 --> 00:12:43,305
In that case, the body
is basically still warm.
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00:12:43,388 --> 00:12:46,433
Not every case
involving necrophilia
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involves sexual murder.
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00:12:48,268 --> 00:12:49,561
I had a case of a guy
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00:12:49,644 --> 00:12:52,898
who was a histology
technician in a hospital,
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00:12:52,981 --> 00:12:54,941
went to the morgue
where they kept the slides
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00:12:55,025 --> 00:12:56,943
because it was cool.
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When security left,
he took out the corpse,
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the refrigerated corpse
of a 91-year-old woman,
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penetrated her sexually using
a latex glove as a condom.
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He didn't kill anybody.
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00:13:09,122 --> 00:13:12,417
But you go where
your psychology leads you.
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With respect to Ed Gein,
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this was not a spontaneous act
where he killed somebody
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00:13:22,511 --> 00:13:23,970
and then he penetrated
the person.
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No, he was highly motivated
to get corpses.
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Gein, he's creating items
from, most of its genitals
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and vaginas and nipples
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and these sorts of things,
in addition to skin.
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00:13:52,582 --> 00:13:56,086
In Gein's case,
he was wearing human skin,
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getting into human skin,
this type of thing.
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00:14:03,134 --> 00:14:07,222
You have to remember
that this this guy, Ed,
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grew up with more rage probably
than anyone could ever imagine.
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And even though
he couldn't readily
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express it, when
you're that angry,
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00:14:19,359 --> 00:14:22,904
you either directed outward
or you direct it inward.
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You become a murderer,
or you become sadistic,
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00:14:27,576 --> 00:14:30,495
or you become
perversely involved
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in the kinds of activities
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00:14:32,455 --> 00:14:35,292
that he found himself
involved in.
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It's is perverse and bizarre
as it can possibly be.
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No.
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No. Well, as I said,
there is a very rare delusion
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involving skin.
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I did have a case
where a person thought
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00:15:01,526 --> 00:15:03,194
that his brother
was wearing a skin suit
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and he was an imposter
and wound up killing him.
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00:15:05,447 --> 00:15:09,200
But I've never had a case
where a person wanted to wear
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somebody else's skin.
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00:15:10,452 --> 00:15:11,995
I don't think I ever heard
of a case
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00:15:12,078 --> 00:15:15,415
like that in
the annals of crime.
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00:15:43,109 --> 00:15:47,572
Shortly after Augusta died,
Ed Gein closed off her room.
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And, you know,
it was the only room
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00:15:49,407 --> 00:15:52,035
in the house
that he never entered.
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00:15:52,118 --> 00:15:55,038
He made it
into a kind of little shrine.
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00:15:57,582 --> 00:16:01,252
You don't have to go much
further than look at his home.
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00:16:01,336 --> 00:16:06,633
The place was total disarray,
cluttered, dirt,
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00:16:06,716 --> 00:16:10,970
garbage, smelled of rotting
flesh and all the rest.
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00:16:11,054 --> 00:16:12,555
And then look
at his mother's room.
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It was completely preserved,
neat, the way she left it.
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That's
what's so, so unsettling about
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00:16:31,700 --> 00:16:34,119
watching Psycho.
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00:16:34,202 --> 00:16:37,622
Here in Psycho, we have it
linked up with the possibility
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00:16:37,706 --> 00:16:39,791
of it actually
being a real story.
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00:16:39,874 --> 00:16:42,377
And that makes it really,
really scary.
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Mrs. Bates?
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00:16:48,717 --> 00:16:53,138
Norman Bates' motivation
to kill is that he has this
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00:16:53,221 --> 00:16:55,473
long-term obsession
with his mother
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00:16:55,557 --> 00:16:59,644
that's so much in keeping with
Hitchcock's more raw approach.
199
00:17:08,653 --> 00:17:09,839
You can love your parents.
200
00:17:09,863 --> 00:17:12,699
But still,
a healthy person strives,
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00:17:12,782 --> 00:17:14,659
in a sense
to be able to formulate
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00:17:14,743 --> 00:17:18,747
some kind of critique
of what, you know, you like
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00:17:18,830 --> 00:17:21,666
or didn't like about
the way they raised you.
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00:17:21,750 --> 00:17:25,170
I don't think he was able to do
that in any conscious way.
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00:17:25,253 --> 00:17:31,259
So there's a kind of closeness
that's pathologic.
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00:17:31,342 --> 00:17:34,304
Could not separate himself
emotionally,
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00:17:34,387 --> 00:17:36,598
psychologically from his mother.
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00:17:36,681 --> 00:17:39,184
This is all in his mind.
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00:17:42,812 --> 00:17:45,648
One of the most
infamous aspects of
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00:17:45,732 --> 00:17:51,279
the Gein case, it's the one that
Thomas Harris employed in
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00:17:51,362 --> 00:17:56,743
Silence of the Lambs,
was Gein making a skin suit.
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00:18:00,288 --> 00:18:05,835
He flayed the legs
from a corpse.
213
00:18:05,919 --> 00:18:07,879
He flayed the upper torso,
214
00:18:07,962 --> 00:18:11,382
including the breasts
from a corpse.
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00:18:11,466 --> 00:18:13,218
He dried them.
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00:18:13,301 --> 00:18:15,595
He apparently attached
some kind of strings,
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00:18:15,678 --> 00:18:18,765
and he would put on
this skin suit.
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00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:32,529
The skin suit, I think,
has an entirely different
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00:18:32,612 --> 00:18:36,241
meaning for him than
anything else that he did
220
00:18:36,324 --> 00:18:38,159
with these bodies.
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00:18:42,247 --> 00:18:46,417
I think the skin suit
was the real project.
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00:18:48,962 --> 00:18:52,340
It raises a couple
of possibilities.
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00:18:52,423 --> 00:19:00,265
Is this his way of becoming
more intimate with Mother?
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00:19:00,348 --> 00:19:03,142
If not literally his mother.
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00:19:06,563 --> 00:19:09,399
I think that with what
we know about his attachment
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00:19:09,482 --> 00:19:12,277
to his mother,
that that is a much more
227
00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:15,238
kind of compelling example
of him role playing
228
00:19:15,321 --> 00:19:19,659
and desperately just trying
to feel her presence again,
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00:19:19,742 --> 00:19:24,414
even if it means just stepping
into this suit that he's made.
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00:19:27,584 --> 00:19:30,795
My understanding of the case
is the reason he couldn't
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00:19:30,879 --> 00:19:33,673
disinter his mother is
I think there was cement
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00:19:33,756 --> 00:19:35,967
around the coffin itself,
which often happens
233
00:19:36,050 --> 00:19:39,304
in some cemeteries for erosion
reasons and so on.
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00:19:39,387 --> 00:19:41,431
I think that was his problem.
235
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,812
I think Ed was
far too scared of his mother
236
00:19:47,896 --> 00:19:50,857
to ever even attempt to
to dig her up,
237
00:19:50,940 --> 00:19:52,692
because I think
it had to be her choice.
238
00:19:52,775 --> 00:19:54,319
It had to be something
that she wanted.
239
00:19:54,402 --> 00:19:56,446
He was never going
to make her do anything
240
00:19:56,529 --> 00:19:58,740
that she didn't want to do,
and she was only going to
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00:19:58,823 --> 00:20:00,825
come out of that grave
if she wanted to come out.
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00:20:00,909 --> 00:20:02,619
All men should respect women
so much.
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00:20:02,702 --> 00:20:04,329
- Sure.
- Yeah.
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00:20:04,412 --> 00:20:05,830
That's great.
245
00:20:05,914 --> 00:20:08,374
Because he can't
bring his mother's corpse back
246
00:20:08,458 --> 00:20:11,586
to the home where he wants
to have his mother,
247
00:20:11,669 --> 00:20:15,506
the skin suit becomes
a type of role play
248
00:20:15,590 --> 00:20:20,219
where he can step
into the skin of his mother,
249
00:20:20,303 --> 00:20:22,597
even though it's not
the skin of his mother.
250
00:20:29,604 --> 00:20:34,317
You can step into some object
that represents his mother,
251
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,863
and for whatever period of time,
he can kind of resuscitate her
252
00:20:38,947 --> 00:20:42,575
and play as if he is her.
253
00:20:42,659 --> 00:20:46,037
My hobby is stuffing things,
you know, taxidermy.
254
00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:47,413
So clearly,
255
00:20:47,497 --> 00:20:49,374
both Norman Bates and Ed Gein
256
00:20:49,457 --> 00:20:51,793
are a little bit obsessed
with their mothers.
257
00:20:51,876 --> 00:20:55,254
A man should have a hobby.
258
00:20:55,338 --> 00:20:57,465
Well, it's...
259
00:20:57,548 --> 00:20:59,676
It's more than a hobby.
260
00:20:59,759 --> 00:21:01,479
In the scene, we start
261
00:21:01,511 --> 00:21:04,931
to learn a little bit more
about Norman Bates' mother.
262
00:21:05,014 --> 00:21:08,393
We're also learning
that he's very into taxidermy.
263
00:21:13,564 --> 00:21:16,401
We'll learn later, at the end
of the film, that Norman Bates
264
00:21:16,484 --> 00:21:20,446
has been keeping his mother
taxidermied in his house.
265
00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:33,501
It speaks to this idea of
the 1950s American family ideal,
266
00:21:33,584 --> 00:21:35,024
where you should
respect your mother,
267
00:21:35,086 --> 00:21:36,796
you should adore your mother,
268
00:21:36,879 --> 00:21:38,756
and then how easily
that gets kind of twisted
269
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,927
into absolute obsession
and absolute darkness.
270
00:21:43,011 --> 00:21:44,762
I think this is a real moment
271
00:21:44,846 --> 00:21:49,976
where we see horror as a genre
developing this notion.
272
00:21:54,939 --> 00:21:57,316
Look, Mama.
273
00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,318
I brought you a visitor.
274
00:22:10,580 --> 00:22:12,707
That's what bothers me,
275
00:22:12,790 --> 00:22:14,959
because you're not
very big, are you?
276
00:22:15,043 --> 00:22:17,336
In terms of
the skin suit he made,
277
00:22:17,420 --> 00:22:22,717
a lot of what Gein did had to do
with resurrecting his mother.
278
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:24,969
But the other part of it is,
you know,
279
00:22:25,053 --> 00:22:28,931
Gein's fantasy about
becoming a woman.
280
00:22:32,143 --> 00:22:39,442
We know that he avidly
read stories about this ex G.I.
281
00:22:39,525 --> 00:22:43,821
who went to Sweden
282
00:22:43,905 --> 00:22:47,867
and had a sex-change operation.
283
00:22:53,956 --> 00:22:57,543
And came back
as Christine Jorgensen.
284
00:23:01,589 --> 00:23:04,467
Christine Jorgensen,
who made world headlines
285
00:23:04,550 --> 00:23:07,678
when she was transformed from
a former G.I. into a woman,
286
00:23:07,762 --> 00:23:10,640
is now a Woman of the Year,
a title bestowed upon her
287
00:23:10,723 --> 00:23:14,685
by the Scandinavian Societies
of Greater New York.
288
00:23:18,272 --> 00:23:20,483
There was a lot of
publicity about
289
00:23:20,566 --> 00:23:25,029
Christine Jorgensen, and Ed
followed that case very closely.
290
00:23:25,113 --> 00:23:30,576
I am deeply honored
and most sincerely touched.
291
00:23:33,162 --> 00:23:34,997
Ed Gein was also obsessed with
292
00:23:35,081 --> 00:23:36,791
the Christine Jorgensen case.
293
00:23:36,874 --> 00:23:39,085
When he was interviewed
by psychiatrist later on,
294
00:23:39,168 --> 00:23:41,212
he did say that
when he was a little boy,
295
00:23:41,295 --> 00:23:44,006
he did often wonder
what it would be like
296
00:23:44,090 --> 00:23:45,133
to be a little girl.
297
00:23:45,216 --> 00:23:46,634
Yeah.
298
00:23:46,717 --> 00:23:48,928
I mean, it's weird
because the entire thing
299
00:23:49,011 --> 00:23:52,014
is filtered
through the lens of Ed Gein.
300
00:23:52,098 --> 00:23:53,978
You know, it's still filtered
through this like,
301
00:23:54,016 --> 00:23:55,685
demented lens.
302
00:23:55,768 --> 00:23:56,995
But he definitely was looking
303
00:23:57,019 --> 00:23:58,437
for a sense of self,
though, right?
304
00:23:58,521 --> 00:23:59,706
He's trying to figure out
who he is.
305
00:23:59,730 --> 00:24:01,482
- Surely.
- And what is he doing
306
00:24:01,566 --> 00:24:02,650
in Plainfield, Wisconsin?
307
00:24:02,733 --> 00:24:04,193
What's the point of life?
308
00:24:04,277 --> 00:24:07,113
And I guess it just led to him
making a skin suit.
309
00:24:10,825 --> 00:24:14,829
If you're inclined
or sensitive to or vulnerable
310
00:24:14,912 --> 00:24:19,041
to input from magazines
or movies you see
311
00:24:19,125 --> 00:24:21,460
or stuff you read,
312
00:24:21,544 --> 00:24:24,714
you know, it may find its way
into your imagination
313
00:24:24,797 --> 00:24:29,468
and then start to incorporate
that into your own fantasy life.
314
00:24:31,721 --> 00:24:34,891
You know, I think about things
like sexual identity
315
00:24:34,974 --> 00:24:38,102
and sort of,
who was this guy sexually?
316
00:24:38,186 --> 00:24:40,605
And I don't know if he knew,
317
00:24:40,688 --> 00:24:44,525
but it would seem as though
he never had sex.
318
00:24:46,652 --> 00:24:49,780
Seem as though his mother
cautioned him
319
00:24:49,864 --> 00:24:54,827
that you shouldn't have sex
unless you marry a woman.
320
00:24:55,578 --> 00:25:02,710
So, was there something
sexually gratifying about this?
321
00:25:07,715 --> 00:25:10,801
Necrophiliacs
disinter bodies for the purpose
322
00:25:10,885 --> 00:25:12,803
of having sex with the corpse.
323
00:25:12,887 --> 00:25:14,305
That's why they're doing it.
324
00:25:14,388 --> 00:25:16,307
In Gein's case,
it could have been
325
00:25:16,390 --> 00:25:18,070
that he wanted to have sex
with his mother.
326
00:25:18,142 --> 00:25:20,728
There's certainly
a lot of Oedipal dynamics
327
00:25:20,811 --> 00:25:22,039
that psychologists
and psychiatrists
328
00:25:22,063 --> 00:25:24,232
talk about all the time.
329
00:25:24,315 --> 00:25:26,108
He may have been to the point
330
00:25:26,192 --> 00:25:33,741
where his years of wallowing
in this very bizarre lifestyle
331
00:25:33,824 --> 00:25:36,744
just wasn't doing the trick
for him anymore.
332
00:25:41,165 --> 00:25:44,043
It might be satisfying
on some level for him
333
00:25:44,126 --> 00:25:48,798
for many years
to defile dead bodies.
334
00:25:50,424 --> 00:25:54,679
But there's nothing more
powerful than killing someone.
335
00:26:50,860 --> 00:26:56,073
Mary Hogan, there are all kinds
of rumors about her background.
336
00:26:56,157 --> 00:26:58,659
She was a plain-spoken woman,
337
00:26:58,743 --> 00:27:01,912
apparently with somewhat
of a profane tongue,
338
00:27:01,996 --> 00:27:06,083
who ran this little
roadhouse tavern that Eddie
339
00:27:06,167 --> 00:27:08,627
sometimes patronized.
340
00:27:13,341 --> 00:27:18,137
Mrs. Hogan, that was the little
tavern up there
341
00:27:18,220 --> 00:27:19,722
north of where our farm was.
342
00:27:19,805 --> 00:27:22,808
It was probably
four miles up there.
343
00:27:23,809 --> 00:27:27,396
Mary Hogan,
Ed Gein sort of saw her
344
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:32,276
as this dark shadow side
of his mother.
345
00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:35,446
You know, where his mother
was a saintly figure,
346
00:27:35,529 --> 00:27:41,035
Mary Hogan was the embodiment
of all that was most corrupt.
347
00:27:43,746 --> 00:27:48,459
Some customer came in,
saw evidence that there had been
348
00:27:48,542 --> 00:27:52,421
some kind of commotion
in the tavern.
349
00:27:58,886 --> 00:28:00,805
Mary Hogan was gone.
350
00:28:00,888 --> 00:28:02,723
There were some
overturned chairs.
351
00:28:02,807 --> 00:28:05,976
There were bullet casings
and some bloodstains.
352
00:28:06,060 --> 00:28:09,397
It was clear that
something dire had happened.
353
00:28:14,902 --> 00:28:18,322
I would have been,
what, 13, 14 years old?
354
00:28:18,406 --> 00:28:20,449
Mary Hogan was missing,
355
00:28:20,533 --> 00:28:24,995
and I suppose
they had found some blood.
356
00:28:25,079 --> 00:28:27,373
Nobody knew who did it.
357
00:28:47,143 --> 00:28:51,939
Ed Gein is confronted with
the gravity of what he's done
358
00:28:52,022 --> 00:28:58,112
and is unable to own up to it
and accept responsibility.
359
00:28:58,195 --> 00:29:01,449
The funny thing was that
after that it happened,
360
00:29:01,532 --> 00:29:04,285
the threshing crew,
they were talking about it
361
00:29:04,368 --> 00:29:06,871
with Eddie, and Eddie says,"
I got her down to my place."
362
00:29:06,954 --> 00:29:08,247
And they said, "Eddie, you fool,
363
00:29:08,330 --> 00:29:10,207
you haven't got her down
to your place."
364
00:29:10,291 --> 00:29:11,792
And he said, "Yes, I do."
365
00:29:11,876 --> 00:29:14,253
And everybody laughed
and joked about it,
366
00:29:14,336 --> 00:29:16,922
and that was the extent of it.
367
00:29:18,549 --> 00:29:19,884
He was telling the truth.
368
00:29:19,967 --> 00:29:22,011
He did have her down
to his place.
369
00:29:22,094 --> 00:29:23,888
Wisconsin people have
a great sense of humor.
370
00:29:23,971 --> 00:29:25,890
- They really do.
- And it is kind of funny.
371
00:29:25,973 --> 00:29:27,933
That one is strange to me.
372
00:29:34,231 --> 00:29:37,902
What's interesting about
the Mary Hogan accusation
373
00:29:37,985 --> 00:29:44,241
is that it he denied
killing Mary Hogan for so long.
374
00:29:44,325 --> 00:29:45,635
It wasn't until
they had to tell him,
375
00:29:45,659 --> 00:29:49,538
like, "We found her head
inside your house."
376
00:29:59,006 --> 00:30:02,885
Once investigators
377
00:30:02,968 --> 00:30:07,097
were going through
Gein's farmhouse,
378
00:30:07,181 --> 00:30:14,230
one of them found a paper bag
and just reached inside it
379
00:30:14,313 --> 00:30:17,483
and pulled out this head
380
00:30:17,566 --> 00:30:20,819
that he immediately recognized
as Mary Hogan.
381
00:30:27,535 --> 00:30:28,452
I went with
382
00:30:28,536 --> 00:30:31,830
Arnie Fritz and the sheriff
383
00:30:31,914 --> 00:30:35,125
out to Ed Gein's house.
384
00:30:35,209 --> 00:30:37,294
I searched the kitchen
385
00:30:37,378 --> 00:30:41,298
and found in the stove
386
00:30:41,382 --> 00:30:46,136
where there had been
some human bones burnt.
387
00:30:49,056 --> 00:30:54,186
Shoebox had the face mask
of a woman.
388
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,026
And by that time,
the sheriff from
389
00:31:01,110 --> 00:31:04,154
Portage County was there.
390
00:31:04,238 --> 00:31:06,490
And when they lifted
up that face mask,
391
00:31:06,574 --> 00:31:10,327
he immediately recognized
it as Mary Hogan's.
392
00:31:10,411 --> 00:31:13,539
When you say face mask,
what are you talking about?
393
00:31:13,622 --> 00:31:17,501
Well, he took the skin,
cut it up in the back and there
394
00:31:17,585 --> 00:31:21,505
and just peeled it off the face,
the skin.
395
00:31:21,589 --> 00:31:24,967
The hair and everything
was on the masks.
396
00:31:32,057 --> 00:31:38,272
Basically the head, it was
rigged up so it could be worn.
397
00:31:51,619 --> 00:31:56,915
In terms of his
necrophiliac urges,
398
00:31:56,999 --> 00:31:59,543
you know, it's like
he ran out of bodies.
399
00:31:59,627 --> 00:32:01,378
You know, there wasn't
any suitable body
400
00:32:01,462 --> 00:32:06,008
in the graveyard at that point,
so he decided to create his own.
401
00:32:11,138 --> 00:32:16,060
Ed Gein was devastatingly
curious about the female form.
402
00:32:16,143 --> 00:32:17,269
- Yes.
- The only female form
403
00:32:17,353 --> 00:32:19,021
that he knew was his mother's.
404
00:32:19,104 --> 00:32:22,941
And he actually developed
a form of sexual attraction
405
00:32:23,025 --> 00:32:24,526
to his mother.
406
00:32:27,154 --> 00:32:30,074
No one knows what's going on
in his interior life.
407
00:32:30,157 --> 00:32:32,660
He has not said
a single one of these thoughts
408
00:32:32,743 --> 00:32:35,079
to another human being.
409
00:32:38,207 --> 00:32:41,251
And there's a curiosity that's
been building inside of you.
410
00:32:41,335 --> 00:32:45,172
So it's like it's a further of
like just like weirdly
411
00:32:45,255 --> 00:32:47,257
just being obsessed
with the female form
412
00:32:47,341 --> 00:32:49,468
and just wanting to see it.
413
00:33:03,565 --> 00:33:06,360
It's such
an intimate act, murder,
414
00:33:06,443 --> 00:33:10,072
especially when it's close.
415
00:33:10,155 --> 00:33:14,451
He wasn't getting enough out
of the dead bodies emotionally.
416
00:33:14,535 --> 00:33:16,745
The next place to go would be,
417
00:33:16,829 --> 00:33:19,581
well, let me take
someone's life.
418
00:33:54,241 --> 00:33:56,326
Ed Gein says in the tapes
several times
419
00:33:56,410 --> 00:33:57,786
that he can't remember.
420
00:33:57,870 --> 00:34:00,247
This is an individual
who does not have
421
00:34:00,330 --> 00:34:05,085
the emotional social development
of an adult being confronted
422
00:34:05,169 --> 00:34:08,380
with the gruesome crimes
that he's committed
423
00:34:08,464 --> 00:34:13,302
and trying to find a way
to soften his responsibility.
424
00:34:40,412 --> 00:34:42,748
This is a way to kind of
distance himself
425
00:34:42,831 --> 00:34:45,751
from the heinous crimes
that he's committed
426
00:34:45,834 --> 00:34:48,462
by feigning that he has amnesia,
427
00:34:48,545 --> 00:34:51,465
that he can't remember,
that he goes into a haze,
428
00:34:51,548 --> 00:34:53,217
that he becomes
this other person.
429
00:35:10,776 --> 00:35:14,613
At one point,
after multiple rounds of this,
430
00:35:14,696 --> 00:35:17,241
where he says
that he can't remember,
431
00:35:17,324 --> 00:35:20,536
he says that if they can show
that it was my gun
432
00:35:20,619 --> 00:35:23,330
that went off,
then I guess it was me.
433
00:35:38,345 --> 00:35:40,889
He's describing an object
434
00:35:40,973 --> 00:35:43,141
that is of his possession,
435
00:35:43,225 --> 00:35:45,602
committing the crime
as if it has agency
436
00:35:45,686 --> 00:35:47,646
or autonomy in the world,
437
00:35:47,729 --> 00:35:51,817
when in fact, he is the one
committing this violence.
438
00:36:27,895 --> 00:36:30,439
When you look
carefully at everything
439
00:36:30,522 --> 00:36:34,318
that they asked Gein
about what he did,
440
00:36:34,401 --> 00:36:35,777
he just said, "I don't remember.
441
00:36:35,861 --> 00:36:38,196
If the police said I did it,
I must have done it.
442
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,657
But I don't remember this,
I don't remember that."
443
00:36:40,741 --> 00:36:43,243
He doesn't implicate himself
in the more bizarre things.
444
00:36:43,327 --> 00:36:44,578
I thought that was important.
445
00:37:08,769 --> 00:37:11,688
That's called
malingered amnesia.
446
00:37:11,772 --> 00:37:15,484
That's very, very typical in
criminal defendants in general.
447
00:37:18,445 --> 00:37:21,365
I want you
to understand what happened.
448
00:37:21,448 --> 00:37:25,577
It was like coming out
of some kind of
449
00:37:25,661 --> 00:37:28,580
horrible trance or dream,
450
00:37:28,664 --> 00:37:33,377
to wake up in the morning
and realize what I had done
451
00:37:33,460 --> 00:37:35,921
and with a clear mind.
452
00:37:37,839 --> 00:37:39,883
It occurs mainly
for two reasons.
453
00:37:39,967 --> 00:37:42,552
One, the criminal
defendant believes
454
00:37:42,636 --> 00:37:45,973
it's to his legal advantage to
say that they don't remember.
455
00:37:46,056 --> 00:37:47,808
And two, they don't want
456
00:37:47,891 --> 00:37:50,477
to remember and discuss
what they had done.
457
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,481
Apparently, I had beaten him
to death with my fists.
458
00:37:54,564 --> 00:37:57,776
- And you have no memory?
- I have no memory of it.
459
00:37:58,860 --> 00:38:00,988
So I just... I can't explain it.
460
00:38:01,071 --> 00:38:02,406
I think I have a good memory,
461
00:38:02,489 --> 00:38:06,535
and it's almost like
I blacked out.
462
00:38:06,618 --> 00:38:09,788
Keep in mind, also,
there is no memory disorder
463
00:38:09,871 --> 00:38:11,790
or neurocognitive disorder
464
00:38:11,873 --> 00:38:14,543
that is selective
for criminal behavior.
465
00:38:14,626 --> 00:38:16,712
So Gein doesn't have
a memory problem.
466
00:38:16,795 --> 00:38:20,716
The only thing he can't remember
are the perverse acts
467
00:38:20,799 --> 00:38:23,593
and the illegal acts
and the extraordinary acts
468
00:38:23,677 --> 00:38:25,554
that he's being accused of.
469
00:38:59,171 --> 00:39:04,801
There's a part of him that is
seeking to erase his past.
470
00:39:20,942 --> 00:39:25,072
He's grown up in this
isolated existence,
471
00:39:25,155 --> 00:39:29,117
cut off from basically everyone
except for his mother, right?
472
00:39:29,201 --> 00:39:32,662
And so there's this immense
amount of attachment
473
00:39:32,746 --> 00:39:36,041
to this one person
who is also responsible
474
00:39:36,124 --> 00:39:37,834
for a lot of your misery.
475
00:39:37,918 --> 00:39:40,712
Part of him is exorcizing
these demons from his life
476
00:39:40,796 --> 00:39:44,674
that his mother has created,
and he's seeking out victims
477
00:39:44,758 --> 00:39:49,513
who at least ostensibly
remind him of his mother.
478
00:40:37,144 --> 00:40:43,441
It seems so unimaginable
that one would murder a woman
479
00:40:43,525 --> 00:40:46,444
that you'd known
for years and years,
480
00:40:46,528 --> 00:40:49,614
liked enough, you know,
to ask out on a date.
481
00:41:18,894 --> 00:41:23,899
We know that he had brought some
.22 caliber shells with him.
482
00:41:44,127 --> 00:41:47,255
Worden's Hardware stocked
a lot of the supplies
483
00:41:47,339 --> 00:41:50,967
for people who were
doing farming and so on.
484
00:41:51,051 --> 00:41:54,262
It also stocked rifles.
485
00:41:54,346 --> 00:41:57,265
Ed Gein took one of the rifles.
486
00:42:01,019 --> 00:42:04,648
When her back was turned,
he loaded the rifle.
487
00:42:31,633 --> 00:42:34,261
We're on Main Street,
Plainfield, Wisconsin.
488
00:42:34,344 --> 00:42:36,888
This is the main drag.
489
00:42:36,972 --> 00:42:39,307
This would have been
all dirt roads back in the day.
490
00:42:45,188 --> 00:42:47,148
Okay, this is
the hardware store.
491
00:42:47,232 --> 00:42:50,235
It's a little different
than it was back in 1957.
492
00:42:50,318 --> 00:42:53,154
Actually, the spot
where they kept the guns
493
00:42:53,238 --> 00:42:54,823
was in the back of the store.
494
00:42:54,906 --> 00:42:56,634
Bernice Worden was actually
looking out the window
495
00:42:56,658 --> 00:42:58,338
across the street
where the gas station was
496
00:42:58,410 --> 00:43:00,829
when she got shot
in the back of the head.
497
00:43:09,004 --> 00:43:12,132
Ed Gein walked back in a store
and wanted to see a .22 rifle
498
00:43:12,215 --> 00:43:14,092
that was in the back
of the store.
499
00:43:14,175 --> 00:43:15,927
So Bernice got that for him.
500
00:43:16,011 --> 00:43:17,446
Then she went up front
by the counter
501
00:43:17,470 --> 00:43:19,723
to look out the window,
out at the gas station.
502
00:43:19,806 --> 00:43:21,766
Ed Gein pulled a bullet
out of his front pocket,
503
00:43:21,850 --> 00:43:23,226
loaded it inside the gun,
504
00:43:23,310 --> 00:43:24,978
and shot her in
the back of the head.
505
00:43:34,904 --> 00:43:36,799
Now, the back of the store
has changed a little bit.
506
00:43:36,823 --> 00:43:38,908
This part sticking out
was not there.
507
00:43:38,992 --> 00:43:40,285
It's totally flush.
508
00:43:40,368 --> 00:43:41,846
Now, right about
where these glass doors was,
509
00:43:41,870 --> 00:43:43,747
is actually an overhead garage.
510
00:43:43,830 --> 00:43:45,165
And inside that was where
511
00:43:45,248 --> 00:43:46,434
the Worden's hardware truck
was parked.
512
00:43:46,458 --> 00:43:48,043
It was a pickup truck.
513
00:43:48,126 --> 00:43:52,255
Ed put Bernice in the back
of that pickup truck.
514
00:43:52,339 --> 00:43:55,967
When you go inside, you kind of
feel a heaviness on you.
515
00:43:56,051 --> 00:43:58,720
Like this is
an historical spot to me.
516
00:44:04,809 --> 00:44:06,686
Welcome to Plainfield.
517
00:44:31,461 --> 00:44:34,005
After executing Bernice Worden,
518
00:44:34,089 --> 00:44:37,342
Gein dragged her body
out the back of the store,
519
00:44:37,425 --> 00:44:40,804
loaded it into her truck.
520
00:44:48,103 --> 00:44:51,815
Ed Gein drove to his farmhouse,
521
00:44:51,898 --> 00:44:55,402
dragged her corpse
into his woodshed,
522
00:44:55,485 --> 00:45:00,740
and then walked back into town,
a distance of about six miles,
523
00:45:00,824 --> 00:45:04,160
I think, and got in his own car.
524
00:45:36,234 --> 00:45:38,194
We're currently
at Ed Gein's land,
525
00:45:38,278 --> 00:45:40,780
on the corner of 2nd and Archer.
526
00:45:46,953 --> 00:45:48,913
And this is where Ed would have
drove his car in
527
00:45:48,997 --> 00:45:51,416
when he had Bernice Worden
in the back.
528
00:46:02,135 --> 00:46:05,013
Exciting standing here.
529
00:46:05,763 --> 00:46:08,099
This is the freaking
property, man.
530
00:46:12,896 --> 00:46:14,939
This is where it all happened.
531
00:46:18,276 --> 00:46:21,946
I love it.
532
00:46:49,557 --> 00:46:51,893
The floor was dirt,
and basically she was hanging
533
00:46:51,976 --> 00:46:54,229
from the rafters on a hoist,
534
00:46:54,312 --> 00:46:55,581
and she was basically
totally gutted
535
00:46:55,605 --> 00:46:58,483
by like a deer, and no head.
536
00:47:38,064 --> 00:47:41,985
On the tapes, you hear
the judge say multiple times,
537
00:47:42,068 --> 00:47:43,228
"You gutted her like a deer."
538
00:47:57,208 --> 00:47:59,419
It's a community where
people are used to hunting.
539
00:48:02,255 --> 00:48:05,967
Used to working
with their hands.
540
00:48:06,050 --> 00:48:08,511
They're familiar with knives.
541
00:48:09,387 --> 00:48:13,391
And the practices that you would
use to skin and kill animals
542
00:48:13,474 --> 00:48:17,020
is something that could be
transferable to humans.
543
00:48:17,103 --> 00:48:22,317
He had no empathy
or no ability to connect
544
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,194
emotionally
or psychologically to her.
545
00:48:25,278 --> 00:48:27,155
I guess he wanted
to clean her up,
546
00:48:27,238 --> 00:48:32,118
get her as clean as possible
by bleeding her.
547
00:48:32,201 --> 00:48:34,579
You know, like a deer
or like an animal,
548
00:48:34,662 --> 00:48:36,289
so that he could get on
with the business
549
00:48:36,372 --> 00:48:40,335
of what he wanted to do,
which is probably to skin her.
550
00:48:59,312 --> 00:49:04,984
It is just not even possible
for any "normal person"
551
00:49:05,068 --> 00:49:10,281
to, you know, imagine
that kind of mentality.
552
00:49:25,046 --> 00:49:30,259
Committing these atrocities
on female bodies,
553
00:49:30,343 --> 00:49:34,013
you know, was just...
Was just part of his life.
554
00:50:00,623 --> 00:50:02,625
After Ed was caught,
555
00:50:02,709 --> 00:50:06,087
townspeople started
telling stories about
556
00:50:06,170 --> 00:50:08,214
Ed having come to their house
557
00:50:08,297 --> 00:50:12,009
and offered them venison
from the deer he had killed.
558
00:50:35,158 --> 00:50:38,369
By his own admission,
Ed had never hunted deer.
559
00:50:41,539 --> 00:50:45,209
So the point of
those stories was that...
560
00:50:47,128 --> 00:50:49,046
they now realized...
561
00:50:50,715 --> 00:50:54,427
that the meat that Gein
was offering them...
562
00:50:57,597 --> 00:51:00,224
was actually human flesh.
563
00:51:00,248 --> 00:51:02,248
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