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Today, people, we are
privileged to have with us
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00:00:14,314 --> 00:00:17,408
a former Labor Cabinet Minister
and leader of the House of Lords,
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00:00:17,450 --> 00:00:20,817
a Knight of the Garter
and Seventh Earl of Longford
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00:00:20,854 --> 00:00:23,322
who's come to talk to us
about a book he's just written
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00:00:23,356 --> 00:00:25,586
entitled, "Saints."
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00:00:25,625 --> 00:00:28,116
Frank Packenham, Lord Longford,
welcome to the show.
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00:00:28,161 --> 00:00:29,822
Thank you very much.
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00:00:29,863 --> 00:00:32,889
So many questions to ask you,
such a long and distinguished career,
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00:00:32,932 --> 00:00:35,765
but I'm gonna start with the book.
What prompted you to write it?
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00:00:35,802 --> 00:00:38,430
As a lifelong Christian
and scholar,
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00:00:38,471 --> 00:00:42,567
I've always been interested
in ideas of sanctity.
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00:00:42,609 --> 00:00:45,442
But more than that,
I think it was probably
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00:00:45,478 --> 00:00:49,175
the entirely selfish desire to spend
a little time with my heroes.
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00:00:49,215 --> 00:00:51,911
- Your heroes?
- Yes, that's what the saints are...
15
00:00:51,951 --> 00:00:55,250
my heroes, friends,
intercessors.
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00:00:55,288 --> 00:00:59,384
Interesting. Right,
the time has just gone 2:15.
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00:00:59,426 --> 00:01:02,156
The subject is "Saints."
We're gonna take some calls.
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00:01:02,195 --> 00:01:05,255
David, you're through
to Lord Longford.
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00:01:05,298 --> 00:01:07,562
What's your question
about the saints?
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00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,068
Actually, my question
isn't about the saints.
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00:01:10,103 --> 00:01:11,798
I want to know how
your esteemed guest
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00:01:11,838 --> 00:01:13,806
can look himself
in the mirror each morning.
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00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,003
I'm assuming this is
a question about Myra Hindley.
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00:01:17,043 --> 00:01:18,567
Yes, it is.
How could you rub salt
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00:01:18,611 --> 00:01:20,476
in the wounds of
the families like that?
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00:01:20,513 --> 00:01:22,947
A man in your position
fraternizing and campaigning
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00:01:22,982 --> 00:01:24,347
on behalf of that monster?
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00:01:24,384 --> 00:01:26,511
I certainly take exception
to that description,
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00:01:26,553 --> 00:01:28,987
but I made it quite clear
before coming on the program
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00:01:29,022 --> 00:01:31,490
that I wouldn't be talking
about Myra Hindley today.
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00:01:31,524 --> 00:01:34,982
Of course. Next caller is Judy
who's in Sheppey.
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00:01:35,028 --> 00:01:36,893
You're through
to Lord Longford.
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00:01:36,930 --> 00:01:38,625
My call is also
about Ms. Hindley.
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00:01:38,665 --> 00:01:41,156
In view of everything
we now know about it,
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00:01:41,201 --> 00:01:43,669
don't you regret having
supported her all that time?
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00:01:43,703 --> 00:01:46,866
Once again, madam, I'm afraid I must
decline to answer questions about her.
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00:01:46,906 --> 00:01:49,966
It's a simple answer,
Lord Longford... yes or no.
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00:01:50,009 --> 00:01:52,671
Do you regret it?
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00:02:06,626 --> 00:02:08,594
The Pennine Moorlands,
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00:02:08,628 --> 00:02:11,654
scene of one of the most intensive
murder hunts of the century.
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00:02:11,698 --> 00:02:13,893
Police and hundreds
of volunteers
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00:02:13,933 --> 00:02:17,528
continue their gruesome search
for the bodies of murder victims,
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00:02:17,570 --> 00:02:20,095
working on a scant tip-off
that the bleak moors
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00:02:20,140 --> 00:02:23,439
hide the evidence
of a mass murderer.
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00:02:27,213 --> 00:02:29,875
And late on Saturday afternoon
they found the body
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00:02:29,916 --> 00:02:33,079
of 10-year-old
Lesley Downey,
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00:02:33,119 --> 00:02:35,280
face down
in a shallow grave.
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00:02:37,323 --> 00:02:40,349
Five days later,
another body was discovered.
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00:02:40,393 --> 00:02:43,692
...been identified as
that of John Kilbride,
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00:02:43,730 --> 00:02:45,721
the 12-year-old boy
who disappeared
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00:02:45,765 --> 00:02:48,097
from his Manchester home
nearly two years ago.
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00:02:50,737 --> 00:02:52,898
I'm standing outside
number 16
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00:02:52,939 --> 00:02:54,770
Wardle Brook Avenue,
Hattersley,
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00:02:54,807 --> 00:02:57,435
where earlier today police
arrested a man and a woman
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00:02:57,477 --> 00:03:00,310
after finding the body
of a 17-year-old boy,
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00:03:00,346 --> 00:03:02,576
Edward Evans.
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00:03:02,615 --> 00:03:05,914
Police have now released
the names of the suspects.
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00:03:05,952 --> 00:03:09,217
They are Ian Brady,
a 28-year-old clerk,
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00:03:09,255 --> 00:03:12,713
and Myra Hindley,
his 23-year-old girlfriend.
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00:03:16,229 --> 00:03:19,027
Hindley, who said that
she had a sore throat,
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00:03:19,065 --> 00:03:21,533
gave her evidence
in a low, husky voice.
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00:03:21,568 --> 00:03:23,661
She said that she
had loved Brady
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00:03:23,703 --> 00:03:25,534
and still loved him.
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00:03:25,572 --> 00:03:28,735
When she was cross-examined about her
part in the nude photographing session
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00:03:28,775 --> 00:03:30,936
with the child
Lesley Ann Downey,
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00:03:30,977 --> 00:03:33,810
she said, "I offer
no defense for that.
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00:03:33,846 --> 00:03:35,746
It was indefensible
and cruel."
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00:03:35,782 --> 00:03:39,183
She said she didn't know that Brady
was tape-recording the session
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00:03:39,219 --> 00:03:42,245
and that she was ashamed
when she heard the tape played later.
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00:03:42,288 --> 00:03:44,950
Extra police were
called in to keep the peace.
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00:03:44,991 --> 00:03:48,290
The parents of other missing Manchester
children were outside the court.
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00:03:48,328 --> 00:03:51,092
- Hanging's too good for them.
- This was too quick.
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00:03:51,130 --> 00:03:53,621
He wants to torture them.
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00:03:53,666 --> 00:03:55,793
A tooth for a tooth
and a life for a life.
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00:03:55,835 --> 00:03:58,360
...head sank as she heard
the foreman of the jury
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00:03:58,404 --> 00:04:01,100
speak the word "guilty"
the first time.
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00:04:01,140 --> 00:04:05,008
"These were three calculated,
cruel and cold-blooded murders,"
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00:04:05,044 --> 00:04:07,444
was what Mr. Justice
Fenton Atkinson said.
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00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,677
Sentencing them both
to life imprisonment,
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00:04:10,717 --> 00:04:14,380
the judge said quietly,
"Put them down."
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00:04:32,171 --> 00:04:34,298
From time to time,
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00:04:34,340 --> 00:04:36,467
people are kind enough
to ask me what I consider
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00:04:36,509 --> 00:04:38,409
to be my greatest
achievement in life,
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00:04:38,444 --> 00:04:40,241
and I always answer
the same way.
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00:04:40,280 --> 00:04:43,807
I say, "It is that
I visit prisoners."
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00:04:43,850 --> 00:04:46,011
Congratulations, Roy.
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00:04:46,052 --> 00:04:47,815
And if I were to die tonight,
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00:04:47,854 --> 00:04:51,017
it is the very first thing
I would say to St. Peter
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00:04:51,057 --> 00:04:52,319
if he were remotely
interested.
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00:04:52,358 --> 00:04:54,485
Morning, Barry.
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00:04:54,527 --> 00:04:58,156
But some of my greatest
and most-valued friendships
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00:04:58,197 --> 00:05:01,030
have begun
with prison visits.
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00:05:01,067 --> 00:05:05,697
And much of what I've learned,
I owe to prison visits.
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00:05:05,738 --> 00:05:09,606
Dennis here, for example,
has taught me the workings
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00:05:09,642 --> 00:05:12,008
of the diesel engine.
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00:05:12,045 --> 00:05:14,036
Priceless information...
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00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,516
even though I do not drive.
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00:05:17,550 --> 00:05:20,747
and Michael here
has taught me Gaelic.
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00:05:20,787 --> 00:05:24,518
And together we have studied
some of Ireland's finest poetry.
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00:05:24,557 --> 00:05:27,117
And I thank you
for that, Michael.
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00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:29,253
And Roy here,
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00:05:29,295 --> 00:05:31,855
whose release we are
celebrating today,
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00:05:31,898 --> 00:05:36,062
has taught me that it is never too
late to take up something new
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00:05:36,102 --> 00:05:38,195
and to still master it.
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00:05:38,237 --> 00:05:41,866
Having never so much as picked
up a brush before the age of 30,
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00:05:41,908 --> 00:05:45,742
he is this year to be shown
at the Royal Academy.
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00:05:51,050 --> 00:05:53,644
In fact, I have
an example of that here,
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00:05:53,686 --> 00:05:55,449
which has just been
presented to me.
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00:05:55,488 --> 00:05:57,752
It's a very fine
piece of work.
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00:05:57,790 --> 00:06:01,954
I think you could've chosen
a rather more attractive subject, Roy,
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00:06:01,994 --> 00:06:03,655
and you flatter me
a great deal.
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00:06:03,696 --> 00:06:05,823
Thank you very much.
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00:06:12,672 --> 00:06:14,299
Might I have a word?
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00:06:14,340 --> 00:06:15,932
- Yes, of course.
- In private.
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00:06:15,975 --> 00:06:17,499
Yes, of course.
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00:06:19,445 --> 00:06:22,141
Excuse me.
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00:06:22,181 --> 00:06:26,242
I just had a phone call
from the governor of Holloway Prison.
118
00:06:26,285 --> 00:06:29,277
So what did
Ann Tree want?
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00:06:29,322 --> 00:06:32,519
Oh, the mighty Tree.
120
00:06:32,558 --> 00:06:36,585
There's a prisoner in Holloway
who specifically asked to see me.
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00:06:36,629 --> 00:06:38,824
As long as it's not
Myra Hindley.
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00:06:38,865 --> 00:06:41,299
As a matter of fact,
it is.
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00:06:52,879 --> 00:06:54,938
You're not going to go?
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00:06:54,981 --> 00:06:56,846
Of course.
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00:06:56,883 --> 00:06:59,443
I can't sit on the board
of a prison-visiting charity
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00:06:59,485 --> 00:07:01,453
and start drawing lines.
127
00:07:01,487 --> 00:07:03,478
Yes, you can.
128
00:07:03,523 --> 00:07:05,514
Frank, that woman's inhuman.
129
00:07:05,558 --> 00:07:08,527
She's... she's a monster.
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00:07:08,561 --> 00:07:11,291
She murdered innocent
young children.
131
00:07:11,330 --> 00:07:12,957
We don't even
know how many.
132
00:07:12,999 --> 00:07:15,832
But as a prisoner, she's still
perfectly entitled to be visited.
133
00:07:15,868 --> 00:07:18,336
Yes, but not
necessarily by you.
134
00:07:20,273 --> 00:07:24,232
Look, you know I've always
supported your penal work,
135
00:07:24,277 --> 00:07:26,973
but there are some crimes,
some people that are...
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00:07:27,013 --> 00:07:29,641
What?
Unforgivable.
137
00:07:29,682 --> 00:07:31,946
Oh, come along, you know
what I feel about that.
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00:07:31,984 --> 00:07:34,544
No human being is
beyond forgiveness.
139
00:07:34,587 --> 00:07:37,488
Condemn people from our armchairs
and what have we become?
140
00:07:56,742 --> 00:07:59,802
Frank, stay behind
a moment, will you?
141
00:07:59,846 --> 00:08:02,314
Yes, of course,
Prime Minister.
142
00:08:06,519 --> 00:08:09,852
I read in the paper
you threw a party for a murderer
143
00:08:09,889 --> 00:08:11,413
in the House
of Lords yesterday.
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00:08:11,457 --> 00:08:13,015
A released murderer,
Prime Minister,
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00:08:13,059 --> 00:08:15,459
who's paid his debt to society
and is now free.
146
00:08:15,495 --> 00:08:17,793
Still made
the headlines.
147
00:08:17,830 --> 00:08:19,821
Wrong sort
of headlines.
148
00:08:19,866 --> 00:08:23,859
I understand your charitable
and philanthropic work is important,
149
00:08:23,903 --> 00:08:26,736
but holding this government together
is important to me.
150
00:08:28,407 --> 00:08:30,432
You've a habit of doing this,
haven't you?
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00:08:30,476 --> 00:08:32,774
Attracting
unfortunate headlines.
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00:08:32,812 --> 00:08:35,645
I remember you asking
153
00:08:35,681 --> 00:08:38,241
your country to forgive
the Germans after the war.
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00:08:38,284 --> 00:08:40,149
They were starving,
Prime Minister.
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00:08:40,186 --> 00:08:42,450
But so were we.
It was 1947.
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00:08:45,324 --> 00:08:48,760
There's an endearing
childlike quality about you, Frank.
157
00:08:50,696 --> 00:08:52,755
But no one wants
children in cabinet.
158
00:08:54,534 --> 00:08:58,265
I made you leader of the Lords
on the recommendation of Clem Attlee.
159
00:08:58,304 --> 00:09:02,832
And so far, you've done
little to justify his faith.
160
00:09:02,875 --> 00:09:06,606
But, you have a talent...
161
00:09:08,347 --> 00:09:09,905
Which I will utilize.
162
00:09:09,949 --> 00:09:12,076
And then he came up
with this report...
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00:09:12,118 --> 00:09:14,109
well, not a report,
more of an investigation.
164
00:09:14,153 --> 00:09:16,678
He wants me to look
into young people nationwide,
165
00:09:16,722 --> 00:09:19,418
focusing on education,
homelessness, criminality.
166
00:09:19,458 --> 00:09:22,586
But you'd do that wonderfully.
I can't think of anyone better.
167
00:09:22,628 --> 00:09:26,257
Under normal circumstances, perhaps,
but this is clearly a poisoned chalice.
168
00:09:26,299 --> 00:09:28,927
Half the inquiry would
come under the auspices of Education,
169
00:09:28,968 --> 00:09:30,367
and half under
the Home Office.
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00:09:30,403 --> 00:09:32,268
Oh, I shouldn't have
come out tonight.
171
00:09:32,305 --> 00:09:34,296
- Don't be silly.
- Love to you.
172
00:09:34,340 --> 00:09:36,831
Look, there's that lady
from "The Sunday Times"
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00:09:36,876 --> 00:09:38,810
who wrote those lovely
things about you.
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00:09:38,844 --> 00:09:40,471
Oh?
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00:09:40,513 --> 00:09:42,538
Do you remember
how much you liked her?
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00:09:42,582 --> 00:09:45,380
Oh, yes.
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00:09:45,418 --> 00:09:48,410
Hello.
Very nice to see you.
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00:09:49,989 --> 00:09:51,980
I'd like you to clear
an afternoon for me
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00:09:52,024 --> 00:09:53,992
in the next couple
of weeks.
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00:09:54,026 --> 00:09:55,755
- How's the 21st?
- You have a meeting at 4:00
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00:09:55,795 --> 00:09:57,126
with the Home Secretary.
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00:09:57,163 --> 00:09:59,063
- 28th?
- Better.
183
00:09:59,098 --> 00:10:00,963
I can move that one.
184
00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,161
Good,
let's go for the 28th.
185
00:10:11,177 --> 00:10:14,146
- What shall I put down?
- Hmm?
186
00:10:14,180 --> 00:10:16,307
Oh, just put "prison visit."
187
00:10:28,194 --> 00:10:30,685
Bernadette Collins?
188
00:10:30,730 --> 00:10:33,790
Susan Davis?
189
00:10:33,833 --> 00:10:36,495
Helen Kroger?
190
00:10:36,535 --> 00:10:40,528
Ethel G?
191
00:10:40,573 --> 00:10:42,268
Myra Hindley?
192
00:10:56,222 --> 00:10:58,986
Susanna Smit?
Rita Williams?
193
00:11:27,086 --> 00:11:29,452
Ms. Hindley?
194
00:11:29,488 --> 00:11:32,389
I do beg your pardon,
madam.
195
00:11:48,741 --> 00:11:51,266
I think it's me
you're looking for.
196
00:11:51,310 --> 00:11:53,141
Myra Hindley?
197
00:12:01,287 --> 00:12:03,312
Got rid of the peroxide
before the trial.
198
00:12:03,355 --> 00:12:05,550
It was blue at the trial
for most of it,
199
00:12:05,591 --> 00:12:07,354
and then red
for the sentencing.
200
00:12:07,393 --> 00:12:09,861
Apparently it
counted against me.
201
00:12:09,895 --> 00:12:11,954
It showed I had
no remorse.
202
00:12:11,997 --> 00:12:14,693
I wasn't aware
of a correlation
203
00:12:14,734 --> 00:12:17,669
between hair color
and contrition.
204
00:12:17,703 --> 00:12:19,933
Nor me.
205
00:12:19,972 --> 00:12:21,769
I'm very pleased
to meet you.
206
00:12:21,807 --> 00:12:26,676
Never met a Lord before.
What should I call you?
207
00:12:26,712 --> 00:12:28,873
M'lord?
Your grace?
208
00:12:28,914 --> 00:12:32,281
- You must call me Frank.
- All right. Frank.
209
00:12:32,318 --> 00:12:35,185
They put me in this
table in the corner
210
00:12:35,221 --> 00:12:38,713
'cause it helps protect me
from the lip readers.
211
00:12:38,758 --> 00:12:42,023
So, you specifically
asked to see me.
212
00:12:42,061 --> 00:12:43,494
What can I do for you?
213
00:12:43,529 --> 00:12:45,690
I want to see Ian Brady.
214
00:12:46,766 --> 00:12:48,358
I see.
215
00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,368
Although
we weren't married,
216
00:12:50,402 --> 00:12:52,700
we were together for six years,
which I believe
217
00:12:52,738 --> 00:12:54,763
makes us common-law
husband and wife,
218
00:12:54,807 --> 00:12:57,037
and therefore entitled
to see one another
219
00:12:57,076 --> 00:12:59,738
just like
married prisoners.
220
00:12:59,779 --> 00:13:02,509
Well, if that's
what you desire,
221
00:13:02,548 --> 00:13:05,142
of course I will do
all I can to help you.
222
00:13:05,184 --> 00:13:07,914
But I have to say,
even though I'm not your solicitor,
223
00:13:07,953 --> 00:13:09,580
I don't think
it's a good idea.
224
00:13:09,622 --> 00:13:11,419
Why not?
225
00:13:11,457 --> 00:13:14,153
Because whatever it is you wish
to achieve by seeing him,
226
00:13:14,193 --> 00:13:16,491
it will almost
certainly elude you.
227
00:13:16,529 --> 00:13:19,623
If it's private conversation
or intimate contact you're after,
228
00:13:19,665 --> 00:13:21,496
you won't get it.
You'll be surrounded
229
00:13:21,534 --> 00:13:23,593
by prison officers
and guards at all times.
230
00:13:23,636 --> 00:13:27,333
Then there's the question
of public reaction.
231
00:13:27,373 --> 00:13:30,342
Were the press to get hold
of it, they'd have a field day.
232
00:13:30,376 --> 00:13:33,140
It might have a profoundly
detrimental effect
233
00:13:33,179 --> 00:13:35,238
on any future
chances of parole.
234
00:13:37,650 --> 00:13:39,777
Parole?
235
00:13:39,819 --> 00:13:41,946
Lord Longford, have you
forgotten who I am?
236
00:13:41,987 --> 00:13:44,251
They'll never
give me parole.
237
00:13:44,290 --> 00:13:45,951
Why ever not?
238
00:13:45,991 --> 00:13:48,551
As I recall, the judge
made a distinction
239
00:13:48,594 --> 00:13:50,357
between your case
and Mr. Brady's.
240
00:13:50,396 --> 00:13:54,730
Although he sentenced him
for the rest of his natural life,
241
00:13:54,767 --> 00:13:58,032
he made it quite clear that
in your case, it could be reviewed.
242
00:13:58,070 --> 00:14:01,130
Now the average
life sentence
243
00:14:01,173 --> 00:14:03,835
is currently 21 years.
244
00:14:05,411 --> 00:14:08,869
Parole can be applied for
after a third of that time.
245
00:14:08,914 --> 00:14:12,816
So you can make your
first application...
246
00:14:12,852 --> 00:14:15,047
six years from now.
247
00:14:15,087 --> 00:14:17,453
Are you serious?
248
00:14:17,489 --> 00:14:19,389
Perfectly serious.
249
00:14:19,425 --> 00:14:21,689
God.
250
00:14:21,727 --> 00:14:23,490
So my advice would be
251
00:14:23,529 --> 00:14:26,464
that you put some distance
between yourself and Mr. Brady.
252
00:14:26,498 --> 00:14:30,867
I gave that man everything...
253
00:14:30,903 --> 00:14:35,306
my heart, my soul,
254
00:14:35,341 --> 00:14:37,002
my life.
255
00:14:37,042 --> 00:14:38,839
Indeed,
if I may say so,
256
00:14:38,878 --> 00:14:41,005
at some personal cost
to yourself.
257
00:14:42,214 --> 00:14:44,182
You're right.
258
00:14:44,216 --> 00:14:46,480
What a pretty smile
you have.
259
00:14:46,518 --> 00:14:47,917
What?
260
00:14:47,953 --> 00:14:50,353
I said
what a pretty smile.
261
00:14:50,389 --> 00:14:53,415
That's the first kind thing
anyone's said to me in months.
262
00:14:53,459 --> 00:14:54,983
It's true.
263
00:14:55,027 --> 00:14:57,860
As a matter of fact,
your entire appearance
264
00:14:57,897 --> 00:15:01,424
and demeanor is quite different
to what I expected.
265
00:15:01,467 --> 00:15:05,233
Of course, all I had to go on
was that police photograph.
266
00:15:07,206 --> 00:15:09,868
The Medusa.
That's what I call it.
267
00:15:09,909 --> 00:15:12,241
No one looks their best
at 4:00 in the morning
268
00:15:12,278 --> 00:15:14,678
having been questioned
for nine hours straight, do they?
269
00:15:14,713 --> 00:15:17,375
Five minutes!
270
00:15:17,416 --> 00:15:19,941
So, is there anything
I can send you
271
00:15:19,985 --> 00:15:22,112
that would make things
more comfortable?
272
00:15:22,154 --> 00:15:24,952
Books and music.
273
00:15:24,990 --> 00:15:26,685
Anything in particular?
274
00:15:26,725 --> 00:15:29,455
I like jazz
and the Goons.
275
00:15:29,495 --> 00:15:32,191
Ian and I used
to listen to them a lot.
276
00:15:32,231 --> 00:15:33,858
I'll see
what I can do.
277
00:15:33,899 --> 00:15:36,663
In the meantime, I suggest
you get a family member
278
00:15:36,702 --> 00:15:38,636
to put aside half a pound
a week or so.
279
00:15:38,671 --> 00:15:42,334
- What for?
- When you come out.
280
00:15:42,374 --> 00:15:44,365
You really think
I will one day?
281
00:15:44,410 --> 00:15:46,401
Yes, of course.
282
00:15:49,281 --> 00:15:51,476
When will you come again?
283
00:15:51,517 --> 00:15:54,486
When you ask me.
Prison visitors never visit prisoners
284
00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:56,215
unless they're invited.
285
00:15:56,255 --> 00:15:59,850
Well, you'll hear
from me soon then.
286
00:15:59,892 --> 00:16:02,087
Good.
287
00:16:04,029 --> 00:16:06,657
Delighted to have
met you, Ms. Hindley.
288
00:16:06,699 --> 00:16:08,496
You too, Frank.
289
00:16:08,534 --> 00:16:10,866
Bye-bye.
290
00:16:23,115 --> 00:16:26,243
Anyway, she wasn't at all
how I might've expected.
291
00:16:26,285 --> 00:16:29,743
I've found her charming,
intelligent, attractive even.
292
00:16:29,788 --> 00:16:31,278
Ahem.
293
00:16:31,323 --> 00:16:34,724
A woman that murdered
three children?
294
00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:38,287
A woman who came under the spell
of a man who murdered three children.
295
00:16:38,330 --> 00:16:41,060
- That's rubbish.
- I spoke to the prison governor.
296
00:16:41,100 --> 00:16:44,934
She's quite convinced that Myra Hindley
was corrupted by Ian Brady
297
00:16:44,970 --> 00:16:48,030
and to consider them
as equals is a great mistake.
298
00:16:48,073 --> 00:16:50,473
Dada, except that she
procured those children,
299
00:16:50,509 --> 00:16:52,636
knowing exactly what
would happen to them.
300
00:16:52,678 --> 00:16:55,545
Never would've got into the car
without a woman present.
301
00:16:55,581 --> 00:16:57,776
The judge made a clear
distinction at the trial
302
00:16:57,816 --> 00:17:00,284
that Ian Brady was the initiator
of these crimes
303
00:17:00,319 --> 00:17:01,911
and the actual killer.
304
00:17:01,954 --> 00:17:04,980
Myra Hindley was merely a dominated
and corrupted accomplice.
305
00:17:05,024 --> 00:17:07,049
The distinction's irrelevant...
murderer and accomplice
306
00:17:07,092 --> 00:17:08,889
are equally guilty
in the eyes of the law.
307
00:17:08,927 --> 00:17:12,226
Killers of this kind almost always
have a prior history of offending.
308
00:17:12,264 --> 00:17:14,459
Myra Hindley had nothing,
not even a blemish.
309
00:17:14,500 --> 00:17:17,401
- and wasn't there a tape?
- what tape?
310
00:17:17,436 --> 00:17:19,631
At the trial. I seem to remember
there was a tape
311
00:17:19,671 --> 00:17:22,697
where one heard the dreadful things
they did to the little girl,
312
00:17:22,741 --> 00:17:25,403
and that it was Myra Hindley's voice
one could hear.
313
00:17:25,444 --> 00:17:30,347
- Not Brady's.
- No. What about a swim?
314
00:17:30,382 --> 00:17:33,078
Yes, please, grandpa.
315
00:17:33,118 --> 00:17:36,349
Please, Mommy,
a swim, a swim!
316
00:17:38,057 --> 00:17:41,652
I think
it's clearing up.
317
00:17:45,064 --> 00:17:46,998
"Dear Frank,
318
00:17:47,032 --> 00:17:50,627
thanks again for your visit,
319
00:17:50,669 --> 00:17:52,500
for the books you sent me.
320
00:17:52,538 --> 00:17:56,304
I finished the first volume
of your autobiography."
321
00:17:56,341 --> 00:17:58,241
- How old are you then?
- 17.
322
00:17:58,277 --> 00:17:59,676
"It's an interesting life
you have had."
323
00:17:59,711 --> 00:18:01,804
You look younger to me.
324
00:18:01,847 --> 00:18:05,442
"So many conversions...
325
00:18:05,484 --> 00:18:07,418
from English to Irish;
326
00:18:07,453 --> 00:18:10,251
from conservative
to socialist;
327
00:18:10,289 --> 00:18:12,621
from Protestant
to Catholic.
328
00:18:12,658 --> 00:18:15,218
I don't know
if you're aware,
329
00:18:15,260 --> 00:18:19,162
but as a teenager I converted
to the Catholic church too."
330
00:18:19,198 --> 00:18:21,860
"Dear Myra,
331
00:18:21,900 --> 00:18:25,631
I had no idea that you had
converted to Catholicism too.
332
00:18:25,671 --> 00:18:28,139
How fascinating.
333
00:18:28,173 --> 00:18:29,902
What a coincidence."
334
00:18:29,942 --> 00:18:32,638
- May I?
- Mmm-hmm.
335
00:18:32,678 --> 00:18:36,739
As a young man, I wasn't
much interested in God.
336
00:18:36,782 --> 00:18:38,579
Quite the opposite.
337
00:18:38,617 --> 00:18:41,085
This one day I was
just overwhelmed
338
00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:42,849
by the sheer pointlessness
339
00:18:42,888 --> 00:18:46,016
of an existence without
the prospect of an afterlife.
340
00:18:46,058 --> 00:18:50,358
That's when I realized
that without a religious dimension,
341
00:18:50,395 --> 00:18:52,454
there was little
meaning to life."
342
00:18:55,601 --> 00:18:58,832
How's your spiritual
life now?
343
00:18:58,871 --> 00:19:03,365
I don't go to church anymore
if that's what you're asking.
344
00:19:03,408 --> 00:19:07,242
That all stopped when
I started seeing Ian...
345
00:19:08,981 --> 00:19:11,541
Along with everything else
that was good in my life.
346
00:19:16,121 --> 00:19:18,351
It's too powerful...
347
00:19:18,390 --> 00:19:21,791
a magnetlike
personality.
348
00:19:21,827 --> 00:19:26,389
He demolished everything
I believed in.
349
00:19:26,431 --> 00:19:29,992
I was obsessed.
350
00:19:32,070 --> 00:19:34,664
Next time you have a moment,
try going back to church.
351
00:19:34,706 --> 00:19:37,300
You might be
pleasantly surprised.
352
00:19:37,342 --> 00:19:40,971
In my experience, it's the prisoners
with the strongest faith
353
00:19:41,013 --> 00:19:44,449
that cope best.
354
00:19:44,483 --> 00:19:48,544
Just imagine what Ian
would say to that.
355
00:19:48,587 --> 00:19:52,956
He thinks God is for nutters.
356
00:19:52,991 --> 00:19:55,858
Does he?
Well, I beg to differ.
357
00:19:57,696 --> 00:19:59,459
"Dear Frank,
358
00:19:59,498 --> 00:20:01,728
the Catholic priest that
visits us here is German...
359
00:20:01,767 --> 00:20:04,327
Father Kahle.
360
00:20:04,369 --> 00:20:06,303
He says Mass here
twice a week,
361
00:20:06,338 --> 00:20:08,602
and last week I told him
I might be looking
362
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,608
to find a way back
to the church."
363
00:20:10,642 --> 00:20:13,270
"The report in its entirety,
364
00:20:13,312 --> 00:20:16,338
will cover youth activity..."
365
00:20:16,381 --> 00:20:19,350
"He's given me the divine
office to read every day,
366
00:20:19,384 --> 00:20:21,409
and the Penny Catechism."
367
00:20:21,453 --> 00:20:24,581
"Ah, the Penny Catechism.
368
00:20:24,623 --> 00:20:28,218
You might also consider reading
'The Confessions of St. Augustine,'
369
00:20:28,260 --> 00:20:31,491
which are
particularly good."
370
00:20:31,530 --> 00:20:34,761
"Anyway, Father Kahle
thinks I have made progress
371
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,827
and we are not far away from the day
when I can make a full confession."
372
00:20:38,870 --> 00:20:41,338
"How wonderful.
373
00:20:41,373 --> 00:20:43,034
Be sure to tell me
what day it is
374
00:20:43,075 --> 00:20:45,270
that I might pray
for you myself."
375
00:20:45,310 --> 00:20:47,335
What's that,
Lord Longford?
376
00:20:47,379 --> 00:20:51,475
Uh, this is
the much-anticipated
377
00:20:51,516 --> 00:20:53,211
Youth Report
which I'm delivering
378
00:20:53,252 --> 00:20:56,483
- to the Prime Minister today.
- How long have you been working on it?
379
00:20:56,521 --> 00:20:58,853
I've been working
on it for 18 months.
380
00:21:02,261 --> 00:21:04,092
Any further questions?
381
00:21:06,064 --> 00:21:08,396
Very good.
382
00:21:08,433 --> 00:21:10,060
Bye.
383
00:21:11,570 --> 00:21:15,734
Oh, Frank, yesterday I finished
reading St. Augustine.
384
00:21:17,509 --> 00:21:21,275
The way he rejected his former life
and sinfulness...
385
00:21:23,649 --> 00:21:25,844
Afterwards, I lay
in my cell unable to sleep,
386
00:21:25,884 --> 00:21:28,045
my head was spinning so.
387
00:21:30,022 --> 00:21:32,752
Every fiber in my body
seems to want to resist this,
388
00:21:32,791 --> 00:21:36,557
yet a part of me cannot deny
it feels so good too.
389
00:21:39,898 --> 00:21:42,162
I just keep hearing
Ian's voice in my head
390
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,294
mocking me for my hypocrisy
and my insincerity.
391
00:21:46,705 --> 00:21:49,196
I wouldn't worry about that.
392
00:22:00,719 --> 00:22:03,153
Lord Longford, the Prime
Minister will see you now.
393
00:22:03,188 --> 00:22:05,213
Oh, thank you very much.
394
00:22:14,166 --> 00:22:16,225
- Prime Minister.
- Sit down, Frank.
395
00:22:20,138 --> 00:22:22,572
I'm gonna come
straight to the point.
396
00:22:22,607 --> 00:22:26,008
I want to give Shackleton a run
as leader of the House of Lords.
397
00:22:28,980 --> 00:22:30,845
I see.
398
00:22:30,882 --> 00:22:33,476
I want to thank you for everything
you've done for us, Frank.
399
00:22:33,518 --> 00:22:35,713
You've done a terrific job
over the years.
400
00:22:35,754 --> 00:22:39,451
But you've
reached an age now.
401
00:22:39,491 --> 00:22:41,322
Shackleton's
a younger man.
402
00:22:43,061 --> 00:22:46,155
It... it's nothing to do
with the report, is it?
403
00:22:47,366 --> 00:22:48,993
What report?
404
00:22:51,103 --> 00:22:52,866
The Youth Report,
Prime Minister,
405
00:22:52,904 --> 00:22:55,236
that you
asked me to write.
406
00:22:55,273 --> 00:22:56,797
No no no.
407
00:22:56,842 --> 00:22:59,276
Nothing to do with that.
408
00:22:59,311 --> 00:23:02,041
I just want to give
Shackleton a run.
409
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,344
As you know, we're right up
against it now.
410
00:23:04,383 --> 00:23:06,351
Tories have
gained ground and...
411
00:23:06,385 --> 00:23:08,319
you've gotta keep
moving in politics.
412
00:23:08,353 --> 00:23:10,218
Fresh blood,
new faces.
413
00:23:10,255 --> 00:23:12,189
New ideas.
414
00:23:41,186 --> 00:23:43,620
Everyone's down
having breakfast.
415
00:23:49,094 --> 00:23:50,994
Will you join us?
416
00:23:56,568 --> 00:23:59,401
Nice pieces in the paper.
417
00:23:59,438 --> 00:24:01,429
Yes.
418
00:24:01,473 --> 00:24:03,065
People are being
very kind.
419
00:24:03,108 --> 00:24:06,441
"The last remaining example
of a politician with principle."
420
00:24:11,116 --> 00:24:13,141
I'll leave the post.
421
00:24:15,387 --> 00:24:18,322
Not another one from Myra Hindley
by any chance?
422
00:24:18,356 --> 00:24:21,655
Because I've noticed she's been
writing to you a lot recently.
423
00:24:22,694 --> 00:24:24,787
Yes.
424
00:24:24,830 --> 00:24:28,357
I've been working towards her return
to the Catholic church.
425
00:24:29,868 --> 00:24:32,359
- Myra Hindley?
- Yes.
426
00:24:34,005 --> 00:24:36,633
Anyway, it's not from Myra,
it's from somebody else.
427
00:25:42,707 --> 00:25:44,231
Lord Longford.
428
00:25:44,276 --> 00:25:46,244
Mr. Brady.
429
00:25:48,847 --> 00:25:51,816
How good of you
not to disappoint.
430
00:25:53,218 --> 00:25:55,812
It's wonderful, isn't it,
when people look
431
00:25:55,854 --> 00:25:57,845
exactly as you imagine?
432
00:25:59,024 --> 00:26:01,083
So this is my competition...
433
00:26:01,126 --> 00:26:03,287
this is who
I'm up against.
434
00:26:04,896 --> 00:26:07,524
Myra's new boyfriend.
435
00:26:09,067 --> 00:26:11,661
She certainly
picks 'em, doesn't she?
436
00:26:13,038 --> 00:26:15,404
I did a little bit of research
before our meeting.
437
00:26:16,575 --> 00:26:18,907
I'd say there's
greater evidence of...
438
00:26:18,944 --> 00:26:22,277
mental instability
in your past than mine.
439
00:26:23,448 --> 00:26:26,440
Son and grandson
to military heroes,
440
00:26:26,484 --> 00:26:28,679
you were invalided
out of the army
441
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,950
because of
a mental breakdown.
442
00:26:30,989 --> 00:26:34,049
Was it the full
crack-up, I wonder...
443
00:26:34,092 --> 00:26:35,923
or were you
just a coward?
444
00:26:37,162 --> 00:26:39,653
What can I do
for you, Mr. Brady?
445
00:26:39,698 --> 00:26:42,064
I'd like to find
my way back to God...
446
00:26:43,268 --> 00:26:45,964
Lord Longford.
447
00:26:46,004 --> 00:26:48,029
Will you help me?
448
00:26:48,073 --> 00:26:51,065
Why, certainly,
if that's what you...
449
00:26:51,109 --> 00:26:54,010
Don't you fuckin' dare.
You start with that pious mumbo-jumbo,
450
00:26:54,045 --> 00:26:56,536
I will jump across that table
and bite out your tongue.
451
00:26:56,581 --> 00:26:59,846
No. This present visit is
for your benefit, not mine.
452
00:27:01,453 --> 00:27:03,421
I want to tell you
about Myra,
453
00:27:03,455 --> 00:27:07,414
who you no doubt believe is sincere
in her religious conversion.
454
00:27:09,294 --> 00:27:12,092
Let me tell you,
that woman...
455
00:27:12,130 --> 00:27:13,893
cares no more about God
456
00:27:13,932 --> 00:27:17,231
than she cares about
the piles in my ass.
457
00:27:18,403 --> 00:27:20,837
What she cares about...
458
00:27:20,872 --> 00:27:22,635
is getting out.
459
00:27:23,675 --> 00:27:26,007
And she thinks
you'll help her.
460
00:27:26,044 --> 00:27:28,376
But the minute
your back is turned...
461
00:27:29,581 --> 00:27:31,378
she mocks you...
462
00:27:32,417 --> 00:27:33,941
for your silly hair
463
00:27:33,985 --> 00:27:37,182
and... and your clothes
464
00:27:37,222 --> 00:27:39,850
and your "self-important
autobiographies
465
00:27:39,891 --> 00:27:43,292
only published because his family
owns a bloody publishing house."
466
00:27:47,666 --> 00:27:49,861
What?
467
00:27:49,901 --> 00:27:52,563
She didn't tell you
she was still writing to me?
468
00:27:53,905 --> 00:27:55,805
No.
469
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:57,569
Oh dear.
470
00:27:59,244 --> 00:28:01,178
She probably
didn't tell you
471
00:28:01,212 --> 00:28:03,703
she was fucking that little
prison officer either...
472
00:28:03,748 --> 00:28:05,238
a nun.
473
00:28:11,189 --> 00:28:14,317
They do it under the bed
in her cell, apparently.
474
00:28:16,194 --> 00:28:18,059
Four times a day.
475
00:28:19,230 --> 00:28:21,460
She has a very high
sex drive, our Myra.
476
00:28:23,234 --> 00:28:26,362
It's the sort of detail you might
want about your new girlfriend.
477
00:28:26,404 --> 00:28:28,133
She needs it
all the time.
478
00:28:28,173 --> 00:28:30,232
Like a man
in that way.
479
00:28:31,843 --> 00:28:33,902
Like a man
in other ways too.
480
00:28:35,013 --> 00:28:37,277
She's strong.
481
00:28:38,950 --> 00:28:41,418
That came in handy,
as you can imagine...
482
00:28:42,954 --> 00:28:46,014
when they were wriggling
and trying to get away.
483
00:28:46,057 --> 00:28:49,049
Wait, you can't go yet.
I haven't finished with you.
484
00:28:50,195 --> 00:28:52,823
Take my advice,
485
00:28:52,864 --> 00:28:55,128
go back to your
other prisoners...
486
00:28:55,166 --> 00:28:59,193
nice, uncomplicated ones
with broken noses
487
00:28:59,237 --> 00:29:01,467
and knuckle tattoos.
488
00:29:03,541 --> 00:29:06,169
Stay clear of Myra
because she will destroy you.
489
00:29:11,049 --> 00:29:13,176
She certainly destroyed me.
490
00:29:14,819 --> 00:29:17,447
And there... there's a thought
you've not had before:
491
00:29:19,057 --> 00:29:21,218
that Myra
egged me on...
492
00:29:23,027 --> 00:29:26,087
that without her, none of it
would have happened.
493
00:29:26,131 --> 00:29:28,497
Wait. You're not yet
dismissed!
494
00:29:28,533 --> 00:29:31,229
Listen to the tape,
that's my advice,
495
00:29:31,269 --> 00:29:33,737
if you want to know
what she's really like.
496
00:29:34,806 --> 00:29:37,070
And when you do listen,
497
00:29:37,108 --> 00:29:38,871
bear this in mind...
498
00:29:38,910 --> 00:29:41,606
it was her that insisted
499
00:29:41,646 --> 00:29:44,581
they call us...
"Mommy!"
500
00:29:44,616 --> 00:29:48,052
And "Daddy!"
Not me!
501
00:30:02,033 --> 00:30:03,762
Are you
all right, sir?
502
00:30:05,370 --> 00:30:07,838
Yes, all...
all right, yes.
503
00:30:57,555 --> 00:31:00,115
- The Body of Christ.
- Amen.
504
00:31:05,830 --> 00:31:08,526
It's too late for church.
You're going straight to hell!
505
00:31:10,802 --> 00:31:14,898
I'm going to fucking kill you,
you child-murdering bitch!
506
00:31:20,979 --> 00:31:25,040
You fucking bitch!
507
00:31:51,009 --> 00:31:52,874
Myra?
508
00:32:08,826 --> 00:32:11,386
Bless me, Father,
for I have sinned.
509
00:32:19,270 --> 00:32:21,966
It has been many years
since my last confession.
510
00:32:26,844 --> 00:32:28,869
It was so beautiful.
511
00:32:30,214 --> 00:32:31,943
I gave my confession.
512
00:32:35,253 --> 00:32:37,346
I told him everything
that had happened
513
00:32:37,388 --> 00:32:39,288
and how sorry I was.
514
00:32:42,894 --> 00:32:46,830
Then he put his hands on me
and gave me a blessing.
515
00:32:49,467 --> 00:32:51,799
Then we went to Mass
516
00:32:51,836 --> 00:32:53,895
and I was given
the Eucharist.
517
00:32:57,575 --> 00:32:59,475
I cried afterwards.
518
00:33:02,981 --> 00:33:05,040
I know it won't
change the past...
519
00:33:06,084 --> 00:33:08,609
bring back those
poor children,
520
00:33:08,653 --> 00:33:11,622
but at least I know in the eyes of God
I am forgiven.
521
00:33:15,994 --> 00:33:18,326
Well, if you are
forgiven by God,
522
00:33:18,363 --> 00:33:20,160
who are we to condemn you?
523
00:33:29,507 --> 00:33:31,532
She's done well.
524
00:33:31,576 --> 00:33:35,012
Better than any of us
imagined, frankly.
525
00:33:35,046 --> 00:33:38,106
Father Kahle tells me
their talks are going well.
526
00:33:38,149 --> 00:33:40,982
She's registered to do
an open university degree.
527
00:33:42,854 --> 00:33:45,789
She treats the wardens
and her fellow prisoners
528
00:33:45,823 --> 00:33:47,415
with courtesy.
529
00:33:47,458 --> 00:33:49,892
And you really feel
it's sincere?
530
00:33:49,927 --> 00:33:53,124
It's not some form
of compliance or act?
531
00:33:53,164 --> 00:33:56,429
I visited Ian Brady and he
made certain suggestions.
532
00:33:56,467 --> 00:33:59,800
Ian Brady's a psychopath.
I wouldn't believe a word he says.
533
00:33:59,837 --> 00:34:03,295
Prison is a relentless,
24-hour experience.
534
00:34:03,341 --> 00:34:04,968
It's impossible to hide.
535
00:34:05,009 --> 00:34:06,533
Who you are,
what you think,
536
00:34:06,577 --> 00:34:08,101
no matter
how hard you try,
537
00:34:08,146 --> 00:34:11,673
it will always come out. Myra Hindley
has, from the very beginning,
538
00:34:11,716 --> 00:34:13,775
been exposed
to extreme provocation
539
00:34:13,818 --> 00:34:15,752
and bullying.
540
00:34:15,787 --> 00:34:18,017
She's never once
behaved in anything
541
00:34:18,056 --> 00:34:20,286
other than the most
exemplary fashion.
542
00:34:21,659 --> 00:34:25,356
As a matter of fact,
as a sign of my confidence in her,
543
00:34:25,396 --> 00:34:27,626
there's something
I've done over the years
544
00:34:27,665 --> 00:34:30,361
with the better-behaved,
longer-tariffed prisoners
545
00:34:30,401 --> 00:34:32,528
which has always
had good results.
546
00:34:57,028 --> 00:34:59,121
Come on, boy. Good.
547
00:35:01,666 --> 00:35:03,657
All right?
548
00:35:05,470 --> 00:35:07,165
Stay close to me.
549
00:35:07,205 --> 00:35:09,230
I will.
550
00:35:22,487 --> 00:35:24,978
That's it.
551
00:35:29,227 --> 00:35:31,559
Myra.
552
00:35:34,031 --> 00:35:35,658
Here we are.
553
00:35:36,767 --> 00:35:38,564
Come on.
554
00:35:43,207 --> 00:35:46,176
Come up here,
on this track here.
555
00:35:48,846 --> 00:35:50,677
I'm tired.
556
00:35:53,885 --> 00:35:56,046
Ideally, of course,
I'd take you to the coast.
557
00:35:56,087 --> 00:35:58,055
Or to mountains.
558
00:36:00,458 --> 00:36:02,619
Somewhere in Scotland.
559
00:36:05,129 --> 00:36:07,689
This isn't bad either.
560
00:36:07,732 --> 00:36:10,098
He comes on the pitch!
He tackles...
561
00:36:14,005 --> 00:36:18,135
Now, I want you
to try something for me.
562
00:36:21,646 --> 00:36:23,341
Take off your sunglasses.
563
00:36:34,525 --> 00:36:36,720
Now your headscarf.
564
00:36:50,007 --> 00:36:53,238
See? No one
recognizes you.
565
00:36:53,277 --> 00:36:56,144
At least there's one benefit
of that awful photograph
566
00:36:56,180 --> 00:36:58,011
with the blonde hair.
567
00:36:59,717 --> 00:37:01,708
How does it feel?
568
00:37:06,457 --> 00:37:08,618
Wonderful.
569
00:37:12,296 --> 00:37:14,457
Well, this is how it will be
for you one day...
570
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,527
walking on the heath...
571
00:37:20,738 --> 00:37:22,865
on your way
to work perhaps...
572
00:37:24,942 --> 00:37:27,240
Or to the shops.
573
00:37:29,247 --> 00:37:32,216
Just an ordinary person.
574
00:37:32,250 --> 00:37:34,411
Anonymous.
575
00:37:36,020 --> 00:37:38,318
Free.
576
00:37:52,870 --> 00:37:55,498
Just thought you might
want to see these.
577
00:37:57,842 --> 00:38:00,276
Mmm.
578
00:38:02,913 --> 00:38:05,381
Oh, gracious me.
579
00:38:09,053 --> 00:38:11,385
There's no question
of Myra Hindley
580
00:38:11,422 --> 00:38:14,721
being granted parole. Among those
people who protested
581
00:38:14,759 --> 00:38:17,421
at her action
in taking Hindley out
582
00:38:17,461 --> 00:38:20,157
for one and a half hours
in a local park
583
00:38:20,197 --> 00:38:23,428
was Mr. Bill Palfrey, former chief
constable of Lancashire.
584
00:38:23,467 --> 00:38:26,664
And to let people out
after eight years,
585
00:38:26,704 --> 00:38:28,672
whether it's
a walk in the park,
586
00:38:28,706 --> 00:38:30,298
I think is
a lot of nonsense.
587
00:38:30,341 --> 00:38:32,468
And somebody's living
in a cuckoo-cuckoo land.
588
00:38:32,510 --> 00:38:34,876
It's not the land I've
lived in for 45 years.
589
00:38:34,912 --> 00:38:38,643
I don't believe
that this woman is fit
590
00:38:38,683 --> 00:38:41,413
to be let loose
on society.
591
00:38:41,452 --> 00:38:44,751
In my opinion, this was the worst
murder this century.
592
00:38:44,789 --> 00:38:48,555
I'm feeling the space
all around me,
593
00:38:48,592 --> 00:38:51,527
the wind
in my hair...
594
00:38:51,562 --> 00:38:53,826
and being able
to see that far.
595
00:38:55,599 --> 00:38:58,067
And I'm going to have
to feed on those two hours
596
00:38:58,102 --> 00:39:01,230
because God only knows it's the only
time I'm going to get out of here.
597
00:39:01,272 --> 00:39:04,298
- Now that's not true.
- You've seen the papers.
598
00:39:04,342 --> 00:39:06,936
What politician's going
to grant me parole now?
599
00:39:06,977 --> 00:39:11,004
Well, perhaps that's
where I come in.
600
00:39:12,883 --> 00:39:14,908
What can you do?
601
00:39:14,952 --> 00:39:16,943
I can certainly explain
why you were given
602
00:39:16,987 --> 00:39:19,285
the privilege of the walk
in the first place.
603
00:39:19,323 --> 00:39:21,757
Your good conduct
in prison, your...
604
00:39:21,792 --> 00:39:23,817
return to the church.
605
00:39:23,861 --> 00:39:25,954
And as a former
Cabinet Minister,
606
00:39:25,996 --> 00:39:28,692
I imagine I still
have some standing.
607
00:39:28,733 --> 00:39:31,065
Why would you do this?
608
00:39:31,102 --> 00:39:34,003
Because I like to think that
after 40 years of visiting prisoners
609
00:39:34,038 --> 00:39:37,496
I've developed some sort of instinct
about which ones are worth fighting for.
610
00:39:41,112 --> 00:39:44,172
You look surprised. Don't you think
you're worth fighting for?
611
00:39:45,649 --> 00:39:47,173
Yes, of course.
612
00:39:47,218 --> 00:39:50,016
So do I.
613
00:39:50,054 --> 00:39:54,150
Before I start, there's one question
I'm bound to ask you.
614
00:39:54,191 --> 00:39:57,592
Yeah?
615
00:40:00,264 --> 00:40:02,391
Is there anything
about your case
616
00:40:02,433 --> 00:40:04,060
or your personal
circumstances
617
00:40:04,101 --> 00:40:06,001
you haven't told me?
618
00:40:08,105 --> 00:40:10,539
I don't think so.
Why?
619
00:40:10,574 --> 00:40:14,169
It's just that I intend to be talking
about you in public a great deal
620
00:40:14,211 --> 00:40:16,645
and it'd be awful
to have any...
621
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,012
un... unpleasant
surprises.
622
00:40:21,352 --> 00:40:24,219
- No.
- Good.
623
00:40:24,255 --> 00:40:27,554
- Time!
- All right then.
624
00:40:27,591 --> 00:40:31,288
Having serviced that, I see no reason
why we can't forge ahead.
625
00:40:31,328 --> 00:40:33,853
Are some crimes
so appalling
626
00:40:33,898 --> 00:40:37,095
that their perpetrators
should never walk free again?
627
00:40:37,134 --> 00:40:39,932
Or can anyone,
whatever the crime,
628
00:40:39,970 --> 00:40:41,995
be delivered
from evil?
629
00:40:42,039 --> 00:40:45,236
Lord Longford
confronts Lord Hailsham.
630
00:40:45,276 --> 00:40:48,404
If you had had the good fortunes
of spending a great many hours
631
00:40:48,446 --> 00:40:51,540
in Myra Hindley's company, you would
appreciate how different she is
632
00:40:51,582 --> 00:40:54,676
to the inflammatory reports one
reads in the popular press.
633
00:40:54,718 --> 00:40:57,812
You reject the idea
that life should mean life...
634
00:40:57,855 --> 00:40:59,789
Yes, it's a totally
un-Christian beastly idea.
635
00:40:59,824 --> 00:41:01,348
Wicked really,
I guess.
636
00:41:01,392 --> 00:41:05,089
I'm allowed to have
my opinion about that.
637
00:41:05,129 --> 00:41:08,292
Other people think I'm wicked for saying
the opposite, so you know...
638
00:41:08,332 --> 00:41:10,391
They don't think
you're wicked, Frank.
639
00:41:10,434 --> 00:41:13,369
They sometimes think
you're a little foolish.
640
00:41:13,404 --> 00:41:15,201
In my experience,
very few women
641
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,264
are real criminals in the sense
that men are.
642
00:41:17,308 --> 00:41:20,402
I think you'll find this view supported
by sociologists.
643
00:41:23,981 --> 00:41:26,415
Whatever she has done,
644
00:41:26,450 --> 00:41:29,283
she is entitled to be
considered for parole.
645
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,380
Myra Hindley was an innocent
young 18-year-old girl
646
00:41:32,423 --> 00:41:35,950
before she met Ian Brady.
She has now become herself again.
647
00:41:35,993 --> 00:41:38,791
Lord Longford is talking
about parole for Myra Hindley.
648
00:41:38,829 --> 00:41:40,421
When will I get parole?
649
00:41:40,464 --> 00:41:42,261
I am serving
a life sentence
650
00:41:42,299 --> 00:41:43,857
through that monster.
651
00:41:43,901 --> 00:41:45,425
When will I get my parole?
652
00:41:45,469 --> 00:41:48,165
If she comes out,
I'll be up for murder
653
00:41:48,205 --> 00:41:49,900
if I get my hands
on that woman.
654
00:41:49,940 --> 00:41:52,807
I said this to Lord Longford
once and I'll say it again.
655
00:41:52,843 --> 00:41:54,572
She will be
one dead woman.
656
00:41:54,612 --> 00:41:57,638
I mean, she will
be one dead woman.
657
00:41:57,681 --> 00:42:00,445
- Mrs. West, for a minute...
- I want justice.
658
00:43:01,712 --> 00:43:03,543
Ms. Billington!
Can I borrow you
659
00:43:03,581 --> 00:43:05,481
for two seconds
for a quick photo?
660
00:43:05,516 --> 00:43:07,643
- Sorry. I'll be right back.
- Thank you so much.
661
00:43:07,685 --> 00:43:10,620
Lord and Lady Longford,
would you like to join the photograph?
662
00:43:10,654 --> 00:43:12,519
- Oh, no...
- Please, sir.
663
00:43:12,556 --> 00:43:14,854
- Oh, hello!
- Just two seconds of your time, sir,
664
00:43:14,892 --> 00:43:17,224
- to support your daughter.
- Oh come on, why not?
665
00:43:17,261 --> 00:43:18,888
Lord Longford,
come on!
666
00:43:18,929 --> 00:43:21,397
- Oh, all right, if you say so.
- Thank you so much.
667
00:43:21,432 --> 00:43:24,128
- Dada.
- Lady Longford.
668
00:43:24,168 --> 00:43:26,363
Hello, Mom.
669
00:43:26,403 --> 00:43:30,134
Lord Longford, how does it feel to be
the father of such a famous author?
670
00:43:30,174 --> 00:43:33,234
Well, not hugely different
from being the husband of one.
671
00:43:33,277 --> 00:43:36,144
Lord Longford,
on "Brass Tacks,"
672
00:43:36,180 --> 00:43:39,411
you told Anne West that Myra Hindley's
a reformed character.
673
00:43:39,450 --> 00:43:42,180
- Yes, that is correct, yes.
- Would you care to comment further?
674
00:43:42,219 --> 00:43:44,483
I haven't changed my view,
if that's what you're asking.
675
00:43:44,521 --> 00:43:46,182
The families
of the victims
676
00:43:46,223 --> 00:43:48,157
have been particularly
upset by this.
677
00:43:48,192 --> 00:43:49,853
What do you have
to say to them?
678
00:43:49,893 --> 00:43:52,726
Naturally, I feel the need for sympathy
for the families,
679
00:43:52,763 --> 00:43:54,958
but I also believe
that those of us
680
00:43:54,999 --> 00:43:57,229
without the necessary
qualifications
681
00:43:57,267 --> 00:43:59,132
or experience
in these matters
682
00:43:59,169 --> 00:44:01,194
should refrain
from passing judgment.
683
00:44:01,238 --> 00:44:02,671
So if it were you,
684
00:44:02,706 --> 00:44:04,799
you'd put Myra Hindley
back on the streets?
685
00:44:04,842 --> 00:44:07,037
No, with all due respect,
that is not what I said.
686
00:44:07,077 --> 00:44:09,011
And if you had taken
the actual time to read
687
00:44:09,046 --> 00:44:10,877
the article in question,
688
00:44:10,914 --> 00:44:13,246
you'd realize that I was
merely suggesting
689
00:44:13,283 --> 00:44:15,217
that Ms. Hindley
be treated fairly
690
00:44:15,252 --> 00:44:17,083
in comparison
with other prisoners.
691
00:44:19,823 --> 00:44:21,984
How could you...
692
00:44:22,026 --> 00:44:24,085
ruin the evening like that?
693
00:44:24,128 --> 00:44:27,029
I refuse to just
stand there and watch
694
00:44:27,064 --> 00:44:29,760
as you sabotage your own
daughter's achievements
695
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,667
by campaigning
for that...
696
00:44:32,703 --> 00:44:34,136
What?
697
00:44:34,171 --> 00:44:37,732
That woman.
This... preoccupation
698
00:44:37,775 --> 00:44:40,539
with Myra Hindley...
699
00:44:40,577 --> 00:44:44,513
I realize losing your job
was a terrible blow
700
00:44:44,548 --> 00:44:47,210
and you're looking
for something replace it.
701
00:44:47,251 --> 00:44:49,481
But not her.
702
00:44:52,356 --> 00:44:54,847
Couldn't you
find someone else?
703
00:44:56,093 --> 00:44:58,254
Something else...
704
00:44:58,295 --> 00:45:00,092
for all our sakes!
705
00:45:04,435 --> 00:45:06,164
Yes.
706
00:45:06,203 --> 00:45:07,830
Of course.
707
00:45:21,418 --> 00:45:23,943
I've written
to Rachel...
708
00:45:23,987 --> 00:45:25,887
to apologize.
709
00:45:30,861 --> 00:45:33,159
It won't happen again.
710
00:45:41,572 --> 00:45:44,473
I thought I'd go down
to the Lords this afternoon.
711
00:45:51,582 --> 00:45:54,073
Unless there's something
you need me to do here.
712
00:45:58,989 --> 00:46:01,184
Elizabeth?
713
00:46:01,225 --> 00:46:03,386
No, I don't think so.
714
00:46:07,264 --> 00:46:10,665
There was a subsection
on quality licensing,
715
00:46:10,701 --> 00:46:14,364
and particularly,
the old paragraph B.
716
00:46:14,404 --> 00:46:16,497
And there's the intention
by the government
717
00:46:16,540 --> 00:46:20,237
to achieve a measure
of quality licensing
718
00:46:20,277 --> 00:46:22,575
and this will be
generally welcome.
719
00:46:22,613 --> 00:46:26,344
That the normal role...
720
00:46:27,551 --> 00:46:30,247
the government never
intended to say this
721
00:46:30,287 --> 00:46:32,915
and is now moving
these two amendments...
722
00:46:42,966 --> 00:46:46,026
Look at this one.
723
00:46:46,069 --> 00:46:48,970
She's got bandages on.
724
00:46:51,875 --> 00:46:53,206
Want a better look?
725
00:46:54,611 --> 00:46:57,307
Dirty sod!
726
00:46:57,347 --> 00:46:59,406
What a pervert!
727
00:47:16,567 --> 00:47:19,593
- Frank, it's harmless.
- I disagree.
728
00:47:19,636 --> 00:47:21,900
Completely harmless.
729
00:47:23,240 --> 00:47:25,936
These things are read by children
at a vulnerable age.
730
00:47:25,976 --> 00:47:28,342
The boys on the bus can't
have been more than 12.
731
00:47:28,378 --> 00:47:31,814
And in our day,
it was just the same.
732
00:47:33,283 --> 00:47:35,478
Nothing like so graphic.
733
00:47:35,519 --> 00:47:37,987
Or as available.
Look at it!
734
00:47:39,857 --> 00:47:41,552
Sexual arousal
is proverbial
735
00:47:41,592 --> 00:47:45,528
and if boys grow up thinking
that these kinds of breasts
736
00:47:45,562 --> 00:47:50,431
or... or this kind
of submission is normal,
737
00:47:50,467 --> 00:47:52,958
they'll expect it
in later life.
738
00:47:53,003 --> 00:47:56,404
I'm afraid I'm with
Marilyn Monroe on this.
739
00:47:58,208 --> 00:48:00,438
When asked what she
thought about sex,
740
00:48:00,477 --> 00:48:03,071
she thought
for a moment then said
741
00:48:03,113 --> 00:48:05,138
she felt it was
here to stay.
742
00:48:06,550 --> 00:48:09,747
And if it is,
then so is prostitution
743
00:48:09,786 --> 00:48:11,720
and pornography.
744
00:48:12,823 --> 00:48:14,450
I found this book.
745
00:48:14,491 --> 00:48:16,425
Studies have been
done in America.
746
00:48:16,460 --> 00:48:19,725
You'd be astonished at the detrimental
effect it has.
747
00:48:19,763 --> 00:48:22,425
If you feel that
strongly about it, fine.
748
00:48:22,466 --> 00:48:25,264
As long as it
isn't Myra Hindley.
749
00:48:33,510 --> 00:48:35,740
"Dear Frank..."
750
00:48:36,914 --> 00:48:40,008
"Where are you?
751
00:48:40,050 --> 00:48:43,645
Another month passes, and still
I haven't heard from you."
752
00:48:46,723 --> 00:48:48,714
- Good evening, sir.
- Good evening.
753
00:48:48,759 --> 00:48:50,818
- Just looking.
- Help yourself, sir.
754
00:48:50,861 --> 00:48:52,624
Thank you.
755
00:48:52,663 --> 00:48:54,654
"If I don't hear
from you soon,
756
00:48:54,698 --> 00:48:56,632
I shall have to assume
757
00:48:56,667 --> 00:48:59,033
that you no longer
wish to represent me."
758
00:48:59,069 --> 00:49:00,866
I know what these are,
but what's this?
759
00:49:00,904 --> 00:49:05,238
- It's an anal stimulator.
- Oh, thank you.
760
00:49:05,275 --> 00:49:08,210
"Recently, I've seen you
campaign against pornography."
761
00:49:08,245 --> 00:49:10,076
Pornography,
it is my conviction,
762
00:49:10,113 --> 00:49:12,411
has increased,
is increasing,
763
00:49:12,449 --> 00:49:15,316
and ought
to be diminished.
764
00:49:15,352 --> 00:49:18,378
- This is hardcore.
- And very heavily thumbed.
765
00:49:20,724 --> 00:49:23,090
This would become
freely available
766
00:49:23,126 --> 00:49:25,822
to children if our friends
carried the motion.
767
00:49:25,862 --> 00:49:27,853
Is this a show
that is representative
768
00:49:27,898 --> 00:49:29,991
of what one gets
in Denmark,
769
00:49:30,033 --> 00:49:31,591
in Copenhagen
at the moment?
770
00:49:31,635 --> 00:49:33,694
Forget this one.
771
00:49:33,737 --> 00:49:36,604
"I can only assume it is
because you have lost interest
772
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:38,608
or conviction
in my cause."
773
00:49:41,878 --> 00:49:45,006
Do you think pictures of naked girls
can be enjoyable, for instance?
774
00:49:45,048 --> 00:49:47,346
You mean at my age? No.
775
00:49:47,384 --> 00:49:50,410
Oh, yes.
776
00:49:52,823 --> 00:49:56,259
- There's no age...
- What age should they cease to be...
777
00:49:56,293 --> 00:49:59,558
you should have to ask the younger
members of the audience that.
778
00:49:59,596 --> 00:50:01,325
Or the middle-aged ones.
779
00:50:01,365 --> 00:50:05,062
I'm an elderly man and you'll
have to take that answer from me.
780
00:50:05,102 --> 00:50:07,366
Well, I wish you good luck.
781
00:50:07,404 --> 00:50:10,100
I shall remember you
always in my prayers.
782
00:50:11,108 --> 00:50:13,770
Yours, Myra."
783
00:50:19,349 --> 00:50:21,579
Moors murderer
Myra Hindley
784
00:50:21,618 --> 00:50:23,483
has been caught
trying to escape jail
785
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:25,454
with her lady
prison officer lover.
786
00:50:25,489 --> 00:50:28,390
Scotland Yard have been
investigating an alleged
787
00:50:28,425 --> 00:50:30,393
escape plot
in Holloway jail,
788
00:50:30,427 --> 00:50:33,555
and already a prison officer
has been charged
789
00:50:33,597 --> 00:50:35,929
and is due to appear
in court on February 1st.
790
00:50:35,966 --> 00:50:38,196
I understand
that Myra Hindley
791
00:50:38,235 --> 00:50:40,601
may also be brought before
the same magistrates
792
00:50:40,637 --> 00:50:43,970
at the same time in connection
with the same offense.
793
00:50:45,675 --> 00:50:47,836
I can't believe
you're going.
794
00:50:47,878 --> 00:50:49,539
Have a heart.
I'm all she's got.
795
00:50:49,579 --> 00:50:52,810
She has a solicitor,
hasn't she?
796
00:50:52,849 --> 00:50:54,544
You gave me
your word.
797
00:50:54,584 --> 00:50:58,111
That woman just tried
to break out of jail.
798
00:50:58,155 --> 00:51:01,852
Perhaps that has something to do with
the fact that I stopped visiting her.
799
00:51:01,892 --> 00:51:04,292
Or with the fact that
she's a hardened criminal.
800
00:51:04,327 --> 00:51:05,988
Oh, come along.
801
00:51:06,029 --> 00:51:08,190
You're sounding like
a tabloid editorial.
802
00:51:08,231 --> 00:51:12,190
Maybe in this instance, they're right.
Had you considered that?
803
00:51:12,235 --> 00:51:13,964
I'll give you
a ring from London.
804
00:51:15,839 --> 00:51:18,740
Hello, Reg. Can we go
to the station, please?
805
00:51:20,977 --> 00:51:24,242
Silly man.
806
00:51:27,484 --> 00:51:29,111
Hello, Myra.
807
00:51:31,154 --> 00:51:33,247
I'm sorry, Frank.
808
00:51:34,858 --> 00:51:37,122
I just got so bleak.
809
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,685
I thought you'd
given up on me.
810
00:51:39,729 --> 00:51:40,991
Nonsense.
811
00:51:42,933 --> 00:51:44,901
Suddenly I had a vision
of the fact that
812
00:51:44,935 --> 00:51:47,802
I'm going to be here forever,
without no supporters.
813
00:51:47,838 --> 00:51:51,035
Not at all, not at all.
814
00:52:05,355 --> 00:52:08,188
Patricia had this
idea of Brazil.
815
00:52:08,225 --> 00:52:11,160
There are these slums
outside Sao Paulo
816
00:52:11,194 --> 00:52:14,254
where they're crying
out for help.
817
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:20,065
What's the sense
in keeping us in here
818
00:52:20,103 --> 00:52:22,367
when I could be
out there doing good?
819
00:52:22,405 --> 00:52:25,863
That's what I want
to do is good.
820
00:52:25,909 --> 00:52:29,367
And instead...
821
00:52:30,580 --> 00:52:33,140
I've just made
everything worse.
822
00:52:33,183 --> 00:52:35,151
Now I've got
to go to court.
823
00:52:35,185 --> 00:52:39,144
The case is going
to get sent down.
824
00:52:39,189 --> 00:52:42,386
We're never going to see
one another again.
825
00:52:42,425 --> 00:52:43,892
You never know.
826
00:52:43,927 --> 00:52:47,363
Help me, please.
827
00:52:47,397 --> 00:52:51,265
Listen, keep praying, Myra.
828
00:52:51,301 --> 00:52:54,293
That's the most important thing.
Keep praying.
829
00:52:54,337 --> 00:52:58,603
Oh, for pity's
sake, woman.
830
00:53:22,132 --> 00:53:25,863
Order!
831
00:53:25,902 --> 00:53:28,336
We will have silence
in this courtroom.
832
00:53:28,371 --> 00:53:29,770
Quiet!
833
00:53:29,806 --> 00:53:32,502
My view, as an experienced
prison visitor,
834
00:53:32,542 --> 00:53:35,670
is that Myra Hindley
is a good Christian woman...
835
00:53:38,515 --> 00:53:41,848
Making a determined effort
to make amends for her past,
836
00:53:41,885 --> 00:53:43,682
and to do good
in the future.
837
00:53:47,324 --> 00:53:50,623
There are those that say you're
under Ms. Hindley's thrall.
838
00:53:50,660 --> 00:53:52,958
How would you
respond to that?
839
00:53:52,996 --> 00:53:55,897
Well, it may
or may not be so,
840
00:53:55,932 --> 00:53:59,424
at least the supervising
officer was present at all times,
841
00:53:59,469 --> 00:54:02,438
to ensure that nothing
untoward took place.
842
00:54:06,443 --> 00:54:09,105
Myra Hindley,
843
00:54:09,145 --> 00:54:11,272
you are
already the subject
844
00:54:11,314 --> 00:54:13,282
of a life sentence.
845
00:54:13,316 --> 00:54:14,749
And properly so.
846
00:54:14,784 --> 00:54:17,514
I am sentencing you
847
00:54:17,554 --> 00:54:19,613
to a further 12 months,
848
00:54:19,656 --> 00:54:22,523
to run concurrently.
849
00:54:22,559 --> 00:54:26,325
I pass it in the hope
that if in future...
850
00:54:26,363 --> 00:54:29,696
and it think it should
be a remote event...
851
00:54:29,733 --> 00:54:33,499
people ever consider
you for parole,
852
00:54:33,536 --> 00:54:36,767
then the activities
of this case
853
00:54:36,806 --> 00:54:40,936
should be recorded
and remembered.
854
00:54:40,977 --> 00:54:43,468
Take them down.
855
00:54:46,816 --> 00:54:48,875
so she's going
to be moved, is she?
856
00:54:48,918 --> 00:54:51,386
- Durham.
- Oh, no.
857
00:54:51,421 --> 00:54:53,048
Very predictable,
I'm afraid.
858
00:54:53,089 --> 00:54:55,887
I had hoped for somewhere
more progressive.
859
00:54:55,925 --> 00:54:59,053
Durham... it couldn't
be worse.
860
00:55:17,614 --> 00:55:19,605
Morning, sir.
861
00:55:23,753 --> 00:55:25,812
- Is this everything?
- Yes.
862
00:55:25,855 --> 00:55:27,914
- Good.
- Thanks, thanks a lot.
863
00:55:27,957 --> 00:55:30,551
- Goodbye.
- See you tomorrow.
864
00:55:54,150 --> 00:55:57,278
Well, look who it is.
865
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:00,016
It's Lord Porn.
866
00:56:02,325 --> 00:56:04,953
I told you to
leave her alone, Frank.
867
00:56:04,994 --> 00:56:08,054
But you didn't,
and now look.
868
00:56:08,098 --> 00:56:11,966
Half the country has you
earmarked as a lackey,
869
00:56:12,001 --> 00:56:14,333
the other as
a gullible fool.
870
00:56:14,371 --> 00:56:16,305
So I'm going
to tell you again,
871
00:56:16,339 --> 00:56:19,103
nice and slow
872
00:56:19,142 --> 00:56:21,576
so you don't forget it.
873
00:56:23,613 --> 00:56:25,979
leave...
874
00:56:26,015 --> 00:56:28,415
Myra Hindley...
875
00:56:28,451 --> 00:56:30,112
alone.
876
00:56:31,654 --> 00:56:35,351
Or she will do to you
what she did to me.
877
00:56:35,392 --> 00:56:38,122
She will destroy you.
878
00:56:38,161 --> 00:56:41,187
I can see that for a man
in your circumstances,
879
00:56:41,231 --> 00:56:43,461
it must be comforting
to blame it on someone else.
880
00:56:43,500 --> 00:56:45,991
Are you going to blame her
for your hunger strike too?
881
00:56:46,035 --> 00:56:49,527
My hunger strike is
a legitimate protest
882
00:56:49,572 --> 00:56:52,063
against the filthy
conditions here.
883
00:56:53,710 --> 00:56:56,611
Then why didn't you allow me
to make representations
884
00:56:56,646 --> 00:56:58,944
to the home secretary
on your behalf?
885
00:56:58,982 --> 00:57:00,973
'Cause I'm not
completely insane.
886
00:57:02,752 --> 00:57:05,880
If I wanted to set my cause
back a decade or two,
887
00:57:05,922 --> 00:57:09,585
if I wanted to be
denied all exercise,
888
00:57:09,626 --> 00:57:12,720
if I wanted to have them
piss in my food as well as spit in it,
889
00:57:12,762 --> 00:57:16,220
then I'd ask a batty
old pornography campaigner
890
00:57:16,266 --> 00:57:18,894
and Myra Hindley's
whipping boy
891
00:57:18,935 --> 00:57:20,994
to make representations
on my behalf.
892
00:57:21,037 --> 00:57:23,198
Thank you.
893
00:57:23,239 --> 00:57:26,902
- Now...
- An hysteric.
894
00:57:26,943 --> 00:57:29,503
Some of the...
895
00:57:29,546 --> 00:57:31,707
that's what she is.
896
00:57:32,982 --> 00:57:34,950
Are you familiar
with the term
897
00:57:34,984 --> 00:57:38,385
in its strict
clinical use?
898
00:57:38,421 --> 00:57:40,787
No.
899
00:57:42,725 --> 00:57:46,456
An hysteric
is someone who
900
00:57:46,496 --> 00:57:48,293
gives to people,
901
00:57:48,331 --> 00:57:52,097
reflects back to them that
which they believe makes them
902
00:57:52,135 --> 00:57:55,127
most acceptable,
903
00:57:55,171 --> 00:57:57,503
most likeable...
904
00:57:59,609 --> 00:58:02,237
what they think
others want to see.
905
00:58:02,278 --> 00:58:06,009
Myra Hindley
is a classic hysteric.
906
00:58:09,052 --> 00:58:11,543
It explains why to you
907
00:58:11,588 --> 00:58:14,022
she's a virtuous
908
00:58:14,057 --> 00:58:17,823
churchgoing angel,
909
00:58:17,861 --> 00:58:20,193
and to her cool prisoners
and dykes,
910
00:58:20,230 --> 00:58:24,189
a strong woman
with a soft heart.
911
00:58:24,234 --> 00:58:26,566
And to me...
912
00:58:29,739 --> 00:58:31,604
She was a brutal sadist
913
00:58:31,641 --> 00:58:33,472
and a cruel killer
914
00:58:33,510 --> 00:58:36,502
with not an ounce
of remorse in her.
915
00:58:37,914 --> 00:58:39,643
If she is this girl
to you, why did you
916
00:58:39,682 --> 00:58:41,673
insist on her innocence
in the trial?
917
00:58:44,954 --> 00:58:47,582
Because I loved her.
918
00:58:50,527 --> 00:58:53,519
How could you not love
a girl like that?
919
00:58:59,702 --> 00:59:02,865
Come on, Frank.
Don't look like that.
920
00:59:02,906 --> 00:59:04,965
You know exactly
what I'm talking about.
921
00:59:06,976 --> 00:59:10,810
I've spoken to the prison governor about
having you reassessed as a mental case.
922
00:59:10,847 --> 00:59:13,042
Deny it, Frank. Look me
in the eye and tell me
923
00:59:13,082 --> 00:59:15,607
you weren't a little
sweet on her yourself.
924
00:59:18,221 --> 00:59:20,951
And now you're on
this white charger,
925
00:59:20,990 --> 00:59:25,188
riding in to save
his damsel.
926
00:59:26,796 --> 00:59:30,357
"Save me,
Lord Longford.
927
00:59:31,968 --> 00:59:34,061
Save me."
928
00:59:44,347 --> 00:59:46,008
Elizabeth?
929
00:59:47,550 --> 00:59:49,575
Elizabeth?
930
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:53,188
- Elizabeth?
- In here.
931
00:59:58,828 --> 01:00:01,888
Oh, there you are?
What are you doing?
932
01:00:01,931 --> 01:00:05,594
I've been reading
Myra's letters.
933
01:00:05,635 --> 01:00:07,865
I hope you don't mind.
934
01:00:09,572 --> 01:00:12,097
Well, there's the fire.
935
01:00:12,141 --> 01:00:14,632
Go and burn them.
936
01:00:14,677 --> 01:00:18,738
I don't have the stomach
for this anymore.
937
01:00:21,918 --> 01:00:23,852
Oh.
938
01:00:23,886 --> 01:00:26,980
It's just...
939
01:00:27,023 --> 01:00:28,991
the last time
we disagreed
940
01:00:29,025 --> 01:00:31,323
so passionately
about anything,
941
01:00:31,361 --> 01:00:34,159
was over your joining
the Catholic church
942
01:00:34,197 --> 01:00:36,893
and I think we both
agree on that matter...
943
01:00:36,933 --> 01:00:38,924
you were right.
944
01:00:41,838 --> 01:00:44,466
So with regard
to Ms. Hindley,
945
01:00:44,507 --> 01:00:47,806
I thought I'd give you
the benefit of the doubt.
946
01:00:47,844 --> 01:00:51,280
So I came into your study,
947
01:00:51,314 --> 01:00:53,748
and read her letters...
948
01:00:56,119 --> 01:00:58,417
And found them
very interesting.
949
01:01:00,123 --> 01:01:03,058
And was thinking
how much I'd like to meet her.
950
01:01:16,305 --> 01:01:18,739
Passport and visiting
order, please?
951
01:01:23,146 --> 01:01:24,841
Visiting order?
952
01:01:24,881 --> 01:01:27,577
As a member of the House of Lords,
I don't need a visiting order.
953
01:01:27,617 --> 01:01:29,084
You should
know that by now.
954
01:01:29,118 --> 01:01:31,313
- Sorry, sir.
- Thank you.
955
01:01:33,856 --> 01:01:37,348
Thank you.
Good morning.
956
01:01:37,393 --> 01:01:39,884
- Good morning.
- Good morning.
957
01:01:39,929 --> 01:01:42,955
- Undo the overcoat, please.
- Yes, of course.
958
01:01:42,999 --> 01:01:45,661
- Arms out, sir.
- Stand over there for me.
959
01:01:45,702 --> 01:01:48,227
- I see.
- Your arms up
960
01:01:48,271 --> 01:01:49,932
with your legs
slightly apart.
961
01:01:49,972 --> 01:01:52,907
Is it really necessary for Lady Longford
to take her coat off?
962
01:01:52,942 --> 01:01:55,638
Turn towards me, please.
Thank you.
963
01:01:55,678 --> 01:01:57,908
Ridiculous.
964
01:01:57,947 --> 01:02:00,347
Hardly likely to be smuggling
anything.
965
01:02:06,222 --> 01:02:08,656
Dad, I miss you.
I really really have.
966
01:02:11,027 --> 01:02:13,518
I don't understand.
I can only see male prisoners.
967
01:02:13,563 --> 01:02:15,793
That's because they
built the women's prison
968
01:02:15,832 --> 01:02:17,925
into the heart
of the men's.
969
01:02:17,967 --> 01:02:20,458
- Myra Hindley?
- Yes.
970
01:02:34,317 --> 01:02:35,807
There she is.
971
01:02:38,755 --> 01:02:40,814
Oh dear.
972
01:02:54,771 --> 01:02:56,238
Be quiet!
973
01:02:56,272 --> 01:02:58,399
Be quiet!
974
01:02:58,441 --> 01:03:00,432
Where's your humanity?
975
01:03:00,476 --> 01:03:02,501
Silence!
976
01:03:02,545 --> 01:03:05,173
For pity's sake.
977
01:03:06,549 --> 01:03:08,312
Hello, Myra.
978
01:03:16,726 --> 01:03:19,092
Myra?
979
01:03:23,032 --> 01:03:24,863
Myra?
980
01:03:26,636 --> 01:03:29,730
- Myra?
- It's okay. She can hear ya.
981
01:03:29,772 --> 01:03:31,569
It's just the medication.
982
01:03:36,946 --> 01:03:39,414
Myra...
983
01:03:39,448 --> 01:03:42,110
I brought someone
with me.
984
01:03:42,151 --> 01:03:44,881
My wife Elizabeth.
985
01:03:47,456 --> 01:03:50,789
- How do you do?
- How do you do?
986
01:03:56,132 --> 01:03:59,431
I was so enjoying
your book.
987
01:04:00,736 --> 01:04:02,704
That...
988
01:04:02,738 --> 01:04:05,138
one about
Queen Victoria.
989
01:04:10,279 --> 01:04:13,214
But they wouldn't
let me bring it here.
990
01:04:13,249 --> 01:04:15,217
They've...
991
01:04:15,251 --> 01:04:17,811
taken all my books.
992
01:04:17,854 --> 01:04:20,755
I'm not allowed them.
993
01:04:24,961 --> 01:04:27,452
They just came...
994
01:04:27,496 --> 01:04:29,487
one day.
995
01:04:33,169 --> 01:04:35,967
Men with guns...
996
01:04:38,207 --> 01:04:40,801
in a helicopter.
997
01:04:47,817 --> 01:04:50,615
Myra?
998
01:04:50,653 --> 01:04:52,644
What have they
given her?
999
01:04:52,688 --> 01:04:55,020
"The liquid kosh,"
we call it.
1000
01:04:55,057 --> 01:04:58,424
It's a mixture of tranqs,
antidepressants and sleepers.
1001
01:04:58,461 --> 01:05:00,952
Most of the new
prisoners go on it
1002
01:05:00,997 --> 01:05:03,557
to cope with the shock
of this place.
1003
01:05:03,599 --> 01:05:07,126
She had a particularly
rough welcome.
1004
01:05:07,169 --> 01:05:09,865
A lot of the women
in here are mothers, you can imagine.
1005
01:05:09,906 --> 01:05:13,273
People have smeared shit
on the walls of her room.
1006
01:05:13,309 --> 01:05:16,938
Pretty much all her food
is tampered with.
1007
01:05:16,979 --> 01:05:20,847
The only safe thing
for her to eat is boiled eggs
1008
01:05:20,883 --> 01:05:23,511
and sweets in wrappers.
1009
01:05:26,756 --> 01:05:29,520
I like sweets.
1010
01:05:36,899 --> 01:05:39,333
It's horrific.
1011
01:05:41,337 --> 01:05:43,999
I had no idea.
1012
01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:47,635
How can we do that
to people?
1013
01:05:49,712 --> 01:05:53,011
And you have to get
her off that stuff.
1014
01:05:53,049 --> 01:05:55,517
It's inhuman.
1015
01:05:57,987 --> 01:06:00,455
How long has she been
in prison now?
1016
01:06:00,489 --> 01:06:02,514
14 years.
1017
01:06:02,558 --> 01:06:05,026
And the average term
served by a life prisoner?
1018
01:06:05,061 --> 01:06:06,756
12 years.
1019
01:06:08,264 --> 01:06:11,597
And still, she's been given
no prospect of parole.
1020
01:06:11,634 --> 01:06:13,727
No.
1021
01:06:13,769 --> 01:06:17,637
You said the trial judge
made a distinction
1022
01:06:17,673 --> 01:06:19,800
between her case
and Ian Brady's.
1023
01:06:19,842 --> 01:06:23,300
I quote,
"Though I believe
1024
01:06:23,346 --> 01:06:25,371
Brady is wicked
beyond belief,
1025
01:06:25,414 --> 01:06:28,679
I cannot feel the same
is necessarily true of Hindley
1026
01:06:28,718 --> 01:06:30,879
when she is removed
from his influence."
1027
01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:34,048
End of quote.
1028
01:06:34,090 --> 01:06:35,955
Really?
1029
01:06:41,464 --> 01:06:43,432
...who between the wars,
1030
01:06:43,466 --> 01:06:45,764
converted more people
to Catholicism...
1031
01:06:45,801 --> 01:06:47,564
How's the Queen Mother
coming along?
1032
01:06:47,603 --> 01:06:50,299
Rather slowly,
I'm afraid.
1033
01:06:50,339 --> 01:06:53,831
I've got bogged down
researching something else.
1034
01:06:53,876 --> 01:06:55,844
Can you say what?
1035
01:06:55,878 --> 01:06:59,143
Myra Hindley.
1036
01:06:59,181 --> 01:07:01,149
What? Why?
1037
01:07:01,183 --> 01:07:02,741
...what a meddler.
1038
01:07:02,785 --> 01:07:05,379
It seemed to me that
for years I have been
1039
01:07:05,421 --> 01:07:08,356
merrily attacking your father
for supporting her
1040
01:07:08,391 --> 01:07:11,656
without having the slightest idea
of what I was talking about.
1041
01:07:11,694 --> 01:07:14,288
- And there you go.
- And?
1042
01:07:14,330 --> 01:07:18,096
And I must say
my eyes have been opened rather.
1043
01:07:18,134 --> 01:07:21,262
How much do you
know about
1044
01:07:21,303 --> 01:07:23,965
the nature
of sadomasochistic relationships?
1045
01:07:24,006 --> 01:07:26,236
Mercifully, very little.
1046
01:07:26,275 --> 01:07:29,472
Isn't it an accepted
psychological fact
1047
01:07:29,512 --> 01:07:32,606
that daughters seek
in their husbands or lovers
1048
01:07:32,648 --> 01:07:35,446
someone who mirrors
their own father?
1049
01:07:35,484 --> 01:07:37,509
One of the papers claimed
1050
01:07:37,553 --> 01:07:40,613
that Myra Hindley was
abused by her father.
1051
01:07:40,656 --> 01:07:42,851
So it makes perfect sense
1052
01:07:42,892 --> 01:07:45,884
that she would then repeat
the pattern with Ian Brady,
1053
01:07:45,928 --> 01:07:49,227
who subjected her
to the most appalling cruelty,
1054
01:07:49,265 --> 01:07:51,563
beating her,
raping her,
1055
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:53,693
threatening
to take her life.
1056
01:07:53,736 --> 01:07:57,832
I see. So it's not her fault
she procured children for him?
1057
01:07:57,873 --> 01:08:00,103
She made repeated attempts
to free herself
1058
01:08:00,142 --> 01:08:02,110
of him,
running away to London.
1059
01:08:02,144 --> 01:08:04,840
But every time
came back... funny that.
1060
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:08,372
Isn't that the nature
of obsession?
1061
01:08:08,417 --> 01:08:12,911
The fear of losing Brady
was greater than anything else.
1062
01:08:12,955 --> 01:08:14,684
And you got all
this from?
1063
01:08:14,723 --> 01:08:16,247
The public records' office,
1064
01:08:16,292 --> 01:08:18,522
where I read the original
trial transcripts,
1065
01:08:18,561 --> 01:08:21,553
and I spoke to Dorothy Wing,
her former governor at Holloway.
1066
01:08:21,597 --> 01:08:24,293
But...
1067
01:08:24,333 --> 01:08:28,531
ironically, the thing that finally
persuaded me to offer her my help
1068
01:08:28,571 --> 01:08:32,530
was the very same thing
that had so made me
1069
01:08:32,575 --> 01:08:34,372
hate her
in the first place:
1070
01:08:34,410 --> 01:08:36,742
the fact that she
is a woman.
1071
01:08:36,779 --> 01:08:38,440
Did you know
1072
01:08:38,481 --> 01:08:41,177
there have been half a dozen
similar child murders?
1073
01:08:41,217 --> 01:08:44,186
The reason none of us
has heard about them
1074
01:08:44,220 --> 01:08:46,882
is because the killers
in each case were men.
1075
01:08:46,922 --> 01:08:50,050
And men being sadistic
violent killers
1076
01:08:50,092 --> 01:08:51,855
isn't a story.
1077
01:08:51,894 --> 01:08:53,987
Incidentally,
in each case
1078
01:08:54,029 --> 01:08:56,793
the men have also
been paroled.
1079
01:08:56,832 --> 01:09:00,268
Note the reason
Myra Hindley is still in jail
1080
01:09:00,302 --> 01:09:02,736
and has never been
considered for parole
1081
01:09:02,771 --> 01:09:04,602
is because she
is a woman.
1082
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:06,608
And for that reason,
1083
01:09:06,642 --> 01:09:08,974
she will always have
my understanding,
1084
01:09:09,011 --> 01:09:12,412
if not my sympathy.
1085
01:09:12,448 --> 01:09:16,145
So when did you go
to the public records office?
1086
01:09:16,185 --> 01:09:20,053
When I said I was
going to the Bodleian.
1087
01:09:20,089 --> 01:09:23,217
And Governor Wing,
when did you visit her?
1088
01:09:23,259 --> 01:09:27,252
When I said
I was having lunch with my agent.
1089
01:09:27,296 --> 01:09:31,858
So now I must add mendacity
to your many virtues.
1090
01:09:34,670 --> 01:09:37,537
And you'd have me
continue my campaign?
1091
01:09:38,674 --> 01:09:40,574
Yes...
1092
01:09:40,609 --> 01:09:44,045
and not rest
until she gets paroled.
1093
01:09:44,079 --> 01:09:46,809
Have you spoken
to Willie about it?
1094
01:09:46,849 --> 01:09:50,842
Whitelaw?
No, not one to one, no.
1095
01:09:50,886 --> 01:09:53,446
Then I suggest you do that.
1096
01:09:55,391 --> 01:09:58,326
What a very good idea.
1097
01:09:59,595 --> 01:10:01,392
I don't think
I've ever loved you
1098
01:10:01,430 --> 01:10:03,227
quite so completely
as I do now.
1099
01:10:04,934 --> 01:10:07,960
- A new high?
- Off the charts.
1100
01:10:08,003 --> 01:10:10,767
Top of the pops.
1101
01:10:10,806 --> 01:10:12,637
Get into bed, woman!
1102
01:10:12,675 --> 01:10:15,303
I've got to get
my dressing gown off.
1103
01:10:15,344 --> 01:10:17,312
I've got to take
my shoes off.
1104
01:10:19,148 --> 01:10:21,241
The Home Secretary
will see you now.
1105
01:10:21,283 --> 01:10:23,183
Thank you
so much.
1106
01:10:28,123 --> 01:10:31,183
- Frank, good to see you.
- My dear fellow.
1107
01:10:31,227 --> 01:10:33,991
- How good of you to see me.
- Not at all.
1108
01:10:34,029 --> 01:10:35,496
- Come on in.
- Thank you.
1109
01:10:35,531 --> 01:10:38,432
- Sherry?
- You know me too well.
1110
01:10:38,467 --> 01:10:40,594
She's served
almost 15 years, Willie.
1111
01:10:40,636 --> 01:10:43,799
It's a scandal she hasn't
been considered for parole.
1112
01:10:43,839 --> 01:10:46,103
I know. But as
Home Secretary,
1113
01:10:46,141 --> 01:10:49,508
I have to make sure
that public confidence
1114
01:10:49,545 --> 01:10:52,878
in the system
is not undermined.
1115
01:10:52,915 --> 01:10:56,009
If you wish to protect
the integrity of the system,
1116
01:10:56,051 --> 01:10:58,315
I suggest you stop
allowing it to be ruled
1117
01:10:58,354 --> 01:11:00,845
- according to the will of the mob.
- Frank, look...
1118
01:11:00,889 --> 01:11:04,655
At least allow her to be interviewed
by a local parole board.
1119
01:11:04,693 --> 01:11:07,526
For me?
What harm could that do?
1120
01:11:07,563 --> 01:11:11,556
Couldn't she be moved somewhere better?
Durham is insufferable.
1121
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:14,068
I'll see what I can do.
1122
01:11:14,103 --> 01:11:16,333
If anyone deserves
to be in...
1123
01:11:16,372 --> 01:11:18,203
Frank!
1124
01:11:20,542 --> 01:11:24,308
You really are a most tenacious
campaigner, you know?
1125
01:11:24,346 --> 01:11:26,041
It's an admirable trait.
1126
01:11:27,983 --> 01:11:32,215
And you always pick
the most difficult causes.
1127
01:11:32,254 --> 01:11:36,384
Maybe you should take
a back seat for a while.
1128
01:11:36,425 --> 01:11:39,826
God knows you deserve it.
1129
01:11:39,862 --> 01:11:42,353
I can't, Willie.
You know what they say:
1130
01:11:42,398 --> 01:11:45,697
"Only dead fish swim
with the stream."
1131
01:11:45,734 --> 01:11:48,828
Thank you very much.
1132
01:11:48,871 --> 01:11:50,634
Thank you.
1133
01:11:50,673 --> 01:11:53,801
Goodbye.
1134
01:11:53,842 --> 01:11:55,434
There's good news.
1135
01:11:55,477 --> 01:11:58,913
Willie has agreed for Myra
to be seen by the local parole board.
1136
01:11:58,947 --> 01:12:00,938
And she's going to be
moved from Durham.
1137
01:12:00,983 --> 01:12:02,712
Oh, Frank,
that's wonderful.
1138
01:12:02,751 --> 01:12:04,685
Imagine, if they
find in her favor,
1139
01:12:04,720 --> 01:12:06,950
and the National Board agrees,
that would put
1140
01:12:06,989 --> 01:12:09,014
enormous pressure
on the Home Secretary.
1141
01:12:09,058 --> 01:12:12,459
Then the only thing that will stand
in our way will be public opinion.
1142
01:12:12,494 --> 01:12:15,019
So we must keep a lid on this,
because if the press get
1143
01:12:15,064 --> 01:12:17,624
even the merest hint of it,
we'll be scuppered.
1144
01:12:30,779 --> 01:12:33,543
Fred Harrison?
1145
01:12:33,582 --> 01:12:36,107
Top local reporter.
1146
01:12:43,425 --> 01:12:46,087
Come on, man, smile.
1147
01:12:51,767 --> 01:12:55,134
This is your lucky day.
1148
01:12:55,170 --> 01:12:57,536
You are about to get a story
1149
01:12:57,573 --> 01:13:01,669
on the front page
of every paper in the country.
1150
01:13:07,883 --> 01:13:10,681
Word has reached me
1151
01:13:10,719 --> 01:13:14,348
that Myra Hindley is
being considered for parole.
1152
01:13:14,390 --> 01:13:17,018
I wasn't aware of that.
1153
01:13:17,059 --> 01:13:20,187
No, friend, that's what
makes it an exclusive.
1154
01:13:22,197 --> 01:13:24,688
Turn your tape recorder on,
there's a good lad.
1155
01:13:38,547 --> 01:13:40,572
Morning, Lord Longford.
1156
01:13:40,616 --> 01:13:42,311
Good morning.
1157
01:13:42,351 --> 01:13:44,581
You certainly are
in high spirits today.
1158
01:13:44,620 --> 01:13:47,919
Yes, we are. A bit of a break,
so I believe, for Ms. Hindley.
1159
01:13:47,956 --> 01:13:49,753
Yeah, don't worry.
1160
01:13:49,792 --> 01:13:52,056
Just goes to show,
if you keep persisting
1161
01:13:52,094 --> 01:13:54,358
and persisting...
1162
01:13:54,396 --> 01:13:56,864
Hello, Myra. This is the nightie
you wanted.
1163
01:13:56,899 --> 01:13:58,389
I couldn't remember
what color you asked for.
1164
01:13:58,434 --> 01:14:00,129
That's great, thanks.
1165
01:14:00,169 --> 01:14:02,069
- Now to business.
- Frank...
1166
01:14:02,104 --> 01:14:04,538
I have a friend on the local
parole board
1167
01:14:04,573 --> 01:14:07,701
who tells me that your application
will be considered next month.
1168
01:14:07,743 --> 01:14:10,143
If that goes well,
all things being equal,
1169
01:14:10,179 --> 01:14:13,671
- the national...
- Frank, enough.
1170
01:14:17,586 --> 01:14:19,349
The police have
been to see me.
1171
01:14:22,057 --> 01:14:25,390
Brady's talked to the press
about the other bodies.
1172
01:14:25,427 --> 01:14:27,588
What do you mean,
what other bodies?
1173
01:14:27,629 --> 01:14:31,121
Pauline Reade
and the Bennett boy.
1174
01:14:33,435 --> 01:14:35,426
He hasn't given them
any details yet...
1175
01:14:35,471 --> 01:14:38,736
but he says he knows
where they're buried.
1176
01:14:38,774 --> 01:14:41,675
Before he grabs
the initiative,
1177
01:14:41,710 --> 01:14:45,737
I've decided to come clean
and tell them everything I know.
1178
01:14:47,716 --> 01:14:51,049
But you know nothing about other bodies.
You told me as much yourself.
1179
01:14:54,289 --> 01:14:57,190
What are you saying?
1180
01:14:57,226 --> 01:15:00,195
I'm saying...
1181
01:15:00,229 --> 01:15:03,596
that I'm going to give a full confession
to all five murders.
1182
01:15:06,235 --> 01:15:10,638
Dear God.
1183
01:15:10,672 --> 01:15:12,867
I asked you specifically
1184
01:15:12,908 --> 01:15:16,935
if there was anything
you hadn't told me.
1185
01:15:16,979 --> 01:15:19,539
I've staked my name on this,
my reputation.
1186
01:15:19,581 --> 01:15:20,741
I know.
1187
01:15:20,782 --> 01:15:22,943
And I would
understand perfectly
1188
01:15:22,985 --> 01:15:24,782
if you never wanted
to see me again.
1189
01:15:27,623 --> 01:15:30,751
It's what my new solicitor's
suggested anyway.
1190
01:15:30,792 --> 01:15:33,090
Your new solicitor?
1191
01:15:33,128 --> 01:15:36,495
He feels... and if I'm honest,
I have to agree with him...
1192
01:15:36,532 --> 01:15:41,435
the campaign that you've
conducted on my behalf
1193
01:15:41,470 --> 01:15:43,461
has hurt me
more than helped me,
1194
01:15:43,505 --> 01:15:45,939
and that we should
make this our last meeting.
1195
01:15:48,343 --> 01:15:52,245
I see.
1196
01:15:52,281 --> 01:15:55,250
If that's what he feels,
1197
01:15:55,284 --> 01:15:57,844
and you feel.
1198
01:16:09,531 --> 01:16:11,465
Goodbye, Frank.
1199
01:17:12,628 --> 01:17:14,562
An hour after first light,
1200
01:17:14,596 --> 01:17:17,895
a police helicopter carrying
Myra Hindley and an armed bodyguard,
1201
01:17:17,933 --> 01:17:20,094
landed on the A635...
1202
01:17:20,135 --> 01:17:22,103
the road used
by Hindley and Brady
1203
01:17:22,137 --> 01:17:25,595
when they were carrying the bodies
of their victims up to the moors.
1204
01:17:25,641 --> 01:17:27,939
A small group including
Myra Hindley
1205
01:17:27,976 --> 01:17:30,240
then inspected
the peat slopes.
1206
01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:34,071
Myra, we do know
it's been a long time,
1207
01:17:34,116 --> 01:17:35,913
but you know,
are we in the right spot?
1208
01:17:35,951 --> 01:17:38,749
Myra, we need to know
if this is the spot.
1209
01:17:38,787 --> 01:17:40,254
Can you be sure, Myra?
1210
01:17:40,288 --> 01:17:42,756
Have a look around.
Where in relation to the group?
1211
01:17:47,796 --> 01:17:50,060
- I recognize the rocks behind you.
- You certain?
1212
01:17:50,098 --> 01:17:51,998
Yes yes, I'm certain.
1213
01:17:52,034 --> 01:17:54,901
Hindley led the police
to areas she and Brady
1214
01:17:54,936 --> 01:17:57,268
visited more than
20 years ago.
1215
01:17:57,305 --> 01:17:59,273
In a pub two miles away:
1216
01:17:59,307 --> 01:18:01,241
Pat Kilbride,
whose son John was murdered
1217
01:18:01,276 --> 01:18:03,176
21 years ago.
1218
01:18:03,211 --> 01:18:06,112
He'd come armed with a knife,
but was stopped at a roadblock.
1219
01:18:06,148 --> 01:18:08,946
Just want to say...
this here,
1220
01:18:08,984 --> 01:18:11,350
I've come prepared
to kill her.
1221
01:18:11,386 --> 01:18:14,355
She has confessed
that she is guilty
1222
01:18:14,389 --> 01:18:16,323
of participating
in these crimes
1223
01:18:16,358 --> 01:18:19,623
so that she would be guilty of the crime
of murder, yes.
1224
01:18:21,530 --> 01:18:23,760
Throughout the morning,
friends and relatives arrived
1225
01:18:23,799 --> 01:18:25,266
at the Reade family home to pay...
1226
01:18:25,300 --> 01:18:28,428
I'm so sorry.
1227
01:18:28,470 --> 01:18:30,802
This is all my fault.
1228
01:18:30,839 --> 01:18:33,933
If I hadn't read
her letters
1229
01:18:33,975 --> 01:18:36,944
and insisted
on meeting her...
1230
01:18:36,978 --> 01:18:41,677
because you'd already
decided to let her go.
1231
01:18:41,717 --> 01:18:45,414
As the cortege made its way through
the Courtland area of Manchester,
1232
01:18:45,454 --> 01:18:48,617
neighbors stood silently
in memory of Pauline.
1233
01:18:48,657 --> 01:18:52,252
Later, her body was interred
at a nearby cemetery.
1234
01:18:53,895 --> 01:18:56,056
More than two decades
after her death,
1235
01:18:56,098 --> 01:18:59,795
the family were at last able
to lay their daughter to rest.
1236
01:19:02,137 --> 01:19:05,595
I'll call the police.
Get rid of the photographers.
1237
01:19:05,640 --> 01:19:08,370
At graveside, the mother
of Lesley Ann Downey,
1238
01:19:08,410 --> 01:19:10,537
yet another child
murdered on the moors.
1239
01:19:10,579 --> 01:19:13,480
For Pauline Reade,
the last chapter
1240
01:19:13,515 --> 01:19:15,574
of her tragic life has been written.
1241
01:19:15,617 --> 01:19:18,450
John Draper,
ITN, Manchester.
1242
01:19:34,503 --> 01:19:38,200
Forgive me, Father,
for I have sinned.
1243
01:19:38,240 --> 01:19:40,470
It has been some weeks
since my last confession,
1244
01:19:40,509 --> 01:19:43,740
during which time
much has changed.
1245
01:19:45,213 --> 01:19:49,513
My actions have
hurt my family...
1246
01:19:49,551 --> 01:19:53,214
my friends, and not to mention
the families of the victims.
1247
01:19:56,958 --> 01:20:00,917
Now I ask God
1248
01:20:00,962 --> 01:20:03,294
for His guidance,
1249
01:20:03,331 --> 01:20:07,665
His strength,
1250
01:20:07,702 --> 01:20:10,637
and above all
His compassion.
1251
01:20:13,275 --> 01:20:16,267
For in His perfection,
1252
01:20:16,311 --> 01:20:19,678
he forgives all
His creatures.
1253
01:20:22,551 --> 01:20:25,782
I beseech you, Lord,
1254
01:20:25,821 --> 01:20:29,120
forgive me.
1255
01:20:31,593 --> 01:20:34,494
And give me strength
1256
01:20:34,529 --> 01:20:39,262
to follow your
immaculate example...
1257
01:20:41,269 --> 01:20:44,932
so that I might put aside
my personal hurt...
1258
01:20:50,078 --> 01:20:52,876
and forgive this woman.
1259
01:21:33,188 --> 01:21:36,817
Shh.
1260
01:21:36,858 --> 01:21:39,156
Go on, sit.
1261
01:21:39,194 --> 01:21:43,631
You're all right.
Shh.
1262
01:21:43,665 --> 01:21:45,292
Shh.
1263
01:21:45,333 --> 01:21:47,324
What's the matter
with you?
1264
01:21:47,369 --> 01:21:49,929
Gonna get real fucking angry
if you don't hurry up.
1265
01:21:49,971 --> 01:21:51,495
What's that look for?
1266
01:21:51,539 --> 01:21:53,200
If you don't shush,
1267
01:21:53,241 --> 01:21:56,438
I'll have to shut
your mouth for you.
1268
01:21:56,478 --> 01:21:58,639
And I'll forget myself,
1269
01:21:58,680 --> 01:22:02,116
and I'll hit you
once more.
1270
01:22:02,150 --> 01:22:05,347
Will you stop it?
1271
01:22:05,387 --> 01:22:08,481
Stop it.
Stop it.
1272
01:22:41,623 --> 01:22:44,956
So many questions to ask you,
such a long and distinguished career,
1273
01:22:44,993 --> 01:22:46,688
but I'm gonna start
with the book.
1274
01:22:46,728 --> 01:22:48,389
What prompted you
to write it?
1275
01:22:48,430 --> 01:22:50,694
As a lifelong Christian
and scholar,
1276
01:22:50,732 --> 01:22:54,532
I've always been interested
in ideas of sanctity.
1277
01:22:54,569 --> 01:22:57,561
But more than that,
I think it was probably
1278
01:22:57,605 --> 01:23:01,405
the entirely selfish desire
to spend a little time with my heroes.
1279
01:23:01,443 --> 01:23:03,172
Do you have a favorite?
1280
01:23:03,211 --> 01:23:05,577
A favorite?
Hey, what a question.
1281
01:23:05,613 --> 01:23:10,380
I commend you for distilling
so succinctly such a complex subject.
1282
01:23:10,418 --> 01:23:13,785
Hey, Myra, I think your
Frankie boy is on the radio.
1283
01:23:13,822 --> 01:23:16,052
- Lord Porn.
- Dismas of Calvary,
1284
01:23:16,091 --> 01:23:17,922
the thief crucified
next to Jesus.
1285
01:23:17,959 --> 01:23:21,918
I've always been drawn
to outcasts
1286
01:23:21,963 --> 01:23:24,932
and people on
the fringes of society.
1287
01:23:24,966 --> 01:23:28,060
And St. Dismas,
having spent most of his life
1288
01:23:28,103 --> 01:23:29,730
as a violent criminal,
1289
01:23:29,771 --> 01:23:34,071
the miracle of his repentance
at the end on the cross...
1290
01:23:34,109 --> 01:23:36,771
Yes, I think he would
have to have my vote.
1291
01:23:36,811 --> 01:23:38,438
Interesting.
1292
01:23:38,480 --> 01:23:41,745
The time is coming up
to 20 past 2:00.
1293
01:23:41,783 --> 01:23:43,648
We're gonna take
some calls.
1294
01:23:43,685 --> 01:23:46,745
David, what's your
question about the saints?
1295
01:23:46,788 --> 01:23:48,847
I want to know how
your esteemed guest
1296
01:23:48,890 --> 01:23:50,824
can look himself in
the mirror each morning.
1297
01:23:50,859 --> 01:23:53,589
I'm assuming this is
a question about Myra Hindley.
1298
01:23:53,628 --> 01:23:56,461
How could you rub salt
in the wounds of the families like that,
1299
01:23:56,498 --> 01:23:58,261
campaigning on behalf
of that monster?
1300
01:23:58,299 --> 01:24:00,426
I certainly take exception
to that description,
1301
01:24:00,468 --> 01:24:02,766
but I made it quite clear
before coming on this program
1302
01:24:02,804 --> 01:24:05,637
that I would not be answering questions
about Ms. Hindley today.
1303
01:24:05,673 --> 01:24:09,769
Of course. Next caller is Judy
who's in Sheppey.
1304
01:24:09,811 --> 01:24:12,109
My call is also
about Ms. Hindley.
1305
01:24:12,147 --> 01:24:14,775
In view of everything
we now know about it,
1306
01:24:14,816 --> 01:24:17,410
don't you regret having
supported her all that time?
1307
01:24:17,452 --> 01:24:21,013
Once again, madam, I'm afraid I must
decline to answer questions about her.
1308
01:24:21,056 --> 01:24:23,991
It's a simple answer,
Lord Longford... yes or no.
1309
01:24:24,025 --> 01:24:26,823
Do you regret it?
1310
01:24:36,771 --> 01:24:38,830
Not at all.
1311
01:24:38,873 --> 01:24:40,101
As a matter of fact,
1312
01:24:40,141 --> 01:24:42,939
I consider my visiting
Myra Hindley,
1313
01:24:42,977 --> 01:24:45,605
and indeed all
the other prisoners
1314
01:24:45,647 --> 01:24:47,877
I visited
for over 50 years,
1315
01:24:47,916 --> 01:24:49,941
to be one of the great
blessings of my life.
1316
01:24:49,984 --> 01:24:52,817
Now perhaps we could
get back to the subject of saints.
1317
01:24:52,854 --> 01:24:54,321
Well, hasn't she
betrayed you?
1318
01:24:54,355 --> 01:24:56,152
She's ruined
your good name.
1319
01:24:56,191 --> 01:24:58,352
She's taken all of
the hard work you did for her
1320
01:24:58,393 --> 01:25:00,156
and thrown it
back in your face.
1321
01:25:02,230 --> 01:25:04,824
Um... yes.
1322
01:25:04,866 --> 01:25:07,892
Perhaps there's some
truth in that.
1323
01:25:10,105 --> 01:25:12,073
Forgiving her
has proven difficult,
1324
01:25:12,107 --> 01:25:13,836
very difficult.
1325
01:25:13,875 --> 01:25:15,672
Not for what
she's done to me...
1326
01:25:15,710 --> 01:25:17,644
that's neither here
nor there...
1327
01:25:17,679 --> 01:25:21,547
but for the terrible
crimes themselves.
1328
01:25:23,518 --> 01:25:28,148
Forgiveness is the very
cornerstone of my faith.
1329
01:25:28,189 --> 01:25:31,852
And the struggle
to deepen my faith
1330
01:25:31,893 --> 01:25:36,125
is my life's journey.
1331
01:25:36,164 --> 01:25:38,792
In that respect,
1332
01:25:38,833 --> 01:25:43,361
she has enriched
my spiritual life beyond measure,
1333
01:25:43,404 --> 01:25:46,703
and for that I will always
be grateful to her.
1334
01:25:52,947 --> 01:25:57,179
If people think that
makes me weak or mad,
1335
01:25:57,218 --> 01:25:59,015
so be it.
1336
01:25:59,053 --> 01:26:01,749
That is the path
I am committed to...
1337
01:26:04,225 --> 01:26:08,218
To love the sinner
but hate the sins...
1338
01:26:10,932 --> 01:26:13,924
To assume the best in people
and not the worst...
1339
01:26:15,603 --> 01:26:19,903
To believe that anyone,
no matter how evil,
1340
01:26:19,941 --> 01:26:23,570
can be redeemed,
1341
01:26:23,611 --> 01:26:26,409
eventually.
1342
01:26:29,951 --> 01:26:33,910
Right. The time is
coming up to 2:20.
1343
01:26:33,955 --> 01:26:36,719
Lord Longford is with us
for the next couple of hours.
1344
01:26:36,758 --> 01:26:40,558
And our switchboard looks
like it's about to explode.
1345
01:26:40,595 --> 01:26:43,359
Next caller,
Lionel in Seven Oaks.
1346
01:26:52,574 --> 01:26:55,202
Look at you!
1347
01:26:55,243 --> 01:26:58,940
Which prison were
you at today?
1348
01:26:58,980 --> 01:27:02,507
Carlisle.
1349
01:27:04,185 --> 01:27:07,313
The train was delayed
coming back, I'm afraid.
1350
01:27:07,355 --> 01:27:08,947
Snow on the tracks.
1351
01:27:08,990 --> 01:27:10,389
Carlisle.
1352
01:27:10,425 --> 01:27:13,758
You must be mad.
You're too old for this.
1353
01:27:13,795 --> 01:27:16,457
I'm going to get rid
of all the requests
1354
01:27:16,497 --> 01:27:18,590
that aren't
local from now on.
1355
01:27:18,633 --> 01:27:22,967
- Oh, look.
- What?
1356
01:27:23,004 --> 01:27:26,531
This one's from Myra.
1357
01:27:42,190 --> 01:27:43,885
Hello, Frank.
1358
01:27:43,925 --> 01:27:45,153
Oh, there you are.
1359
01:27:45,193 --> 01:27:48,162
Hello.
1360
01:27:48,196 --> 01:27:52,633
Goodness.
How well you look.
1361
01:27:52,667 --> 01:27:55,693
Rubbish.
1362
01:27:55,737 --> 01:27:57,728
My hair is falling out
1363
01:27:57,772 --> 01:28:00,036
and I'm dying
of emphysema.
1364
01:28:00,074 --> 01:28:04,010
Well, you still look
wonderful to me.
1365
01:28:04,045 --> 01:28:06,013
Well, you're blind.
1366
01:28:06,047 --> 01:28:08,743
Nearly, yes.
1367
01:28:11,052 --> 01:28:15,045
Frank, the reason why I've
asked to see you today...
1368
01:28:16,591 --> 01:28:19,924
I made up my mind
that if there was one thing
1369
01:28:19,961 --> 01:28:23,590
I was going to do
before it was too late,
1370
01:28:23,631 --> 01:28:27,931
it would be to apologize
to you in person.
1371
01:28:29,404 --> 01:28:33,272
Those are terrible
things I did to you...
1372
01:28:36,878 --> 01:28:39,608
Lying to you like that.
1373
01:28:39,647 --> 01:28:42,309
I'm sorry.
1374
01:28:54,996 --> 01:28:58,557
I couldn't tell you
everything, Frank.
1375
01:29:02,103 --> 01:29:05,561
In prison, you never
tell anyone everything.
1376
01:29:10,111 --> 01:29:13,774
And your full
confession before God...
1377
01:29:16,117 --> 01:29:19,086
Was that a lie too?
1378
01:29:19,120 --> 01:29:22,089
I'm trying, Frank.
1379
01:29:22,123 --> 01:29:25,820
I'm really trying to know
the God that you know.
1380
01:29:28,429 --> 01:29:32,331
But if you'd been
there that night
1381
01:29:32,367 --> 01:29:36,394
on the moors
in the moonlight
1382
01:29:36,437 --> 01:29:41,101
when we did the first one,
1383
01:29:41,142 --> 01:29:44,771
then you'd know that evil
1384
01:29:44,812 --> 01:29:47,781
can be a spiritual
experience too.
1385
01:29:59,360 --> 01:30:01,658
You know we only missed it
by a few weeks.
1386
01:30:03,030 --> 01:30:06,796
- What?
- The death sentence.
1387
01:30:08,169 --> 01:30:10,501
They abolished it while
we were still on remand.
1388
01:30:10,538 --> 01:30:12,836
Looking back, don't you think
it would have been
1389
01:30:12,874 --> 01:30:14,933
better for everyone
if they'd just hung us?
1390
01:30:14,976 --> 01:30:17,501
Certainly not.
1391
01:30:17,545 --> 01:30:20,639
Only God has the right
to take human life.
1392
01:30:20,681 --> 01:30:23,878
Would he have not wanted to give
the families that comfort?
1393
01:30:25,219 --> 01:30:27,380
None of us knows
the true purpose
1394
01:30:27,422 --> 01:30:29,890
of our lives on Earth.
1395
01:30:29,924 --> 01:30:32,791
Besides...
1396
01:30:32,827 --> 01:30:35,295
had you been hanged,
I would never have had
1397
01:30:35,329 --> 01:30:38,264
the privilege
of getting to know you.
1398
01:30:43,204 --> 01:30:46,196
You really believe that,
don't you?
1399
01:30:56,851 --> 01:30:59,445
It must be rather
a nice place to be.
1400
01:30:59,487 --> 01:31:01,182
Where?
1401
01:31:01,222 --> 01:31:03,747
Inside your head.
1402
01:31:03,791 --> 01:31:08,626
Oh, I'm not so sure
about that.
1403
01:31:13,468 --> 01:31:16,403
A fine pair we are then.
1404
01:31:16,437 --> 01:31:18,928
Yes.
105397
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