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- Is that balance good, Rob?
- Yeah.
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00:00:19,811 --> 00:00:21,146
Motif down more.
3
00:00:36,203 --> 00:00:38,121
You go, too.
When you cue your bridge,
4
00:00:38,247 --> 00:00:40,374
you can solo through that
while Marcus plays the melody.
5
00:00:40,499 --> 00:00:40,999
OK.
6
00:00:41,166 --> 00:00:42,751
And maybe
the second time around,
7
00:00:42,876 --> 00:00:45,212
if you want, you can jump in
on the melody if you want.
8
00:00:45,337 --> 00:00:47,214
I'll play it once or twice and
then you can pick up.
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00:00:47,381 --> 00:00:48,131
Cool.
10
00:00:50,300 --> 00:00:53,637
We put together a Blue Note
super group with Robert Glasper,
11
00:00:54,221 --> 00:00:56,181
Ambrose Akinmusire,
12
00:00:56,306 --> 00:00:57,891
Marcus Strickland,
13
00:00:58,183 --> 00:00:59,893
Lionel Loueke,
14
00:01:00,185 --> 00:01:01,562
Kendrick Scott
15
00:01:01,687 --> 00:01:02,854
and Derrick Hodge.
16
00:01:04,147 --> 00:01:07,317
I was at the first show they
played at Monterey Jazz Festival
17
00:01:07,442 --> 00:01:09,111
for the 75th anniversary.
18
00:01:09,653 --> 00:01:11,154
It was music that...
19
00:01:11,822 --> 00:01:14,825
It had a sound to it, you know,
that sounded like Blue Note.
20
00:01:20,998 --> 00:01:23,292
Blue Note has a history
of so many amazing artists
21
00:01:23,417 --> 00:01:24,960
that have recorded
on that label.
22
00:01:25,127 --> 00:01:29,339
Every great pianist
has recorded on that label!
23
00:01:29,673 --> 00:01:33,510
But what I try to do
is not think about that
24
00:01:34,094 --> 00:01:36,263
when I'm trying to do my thing
25
00:01:36,388 --> 00:01:38,223
because it could be
so intimidating.
26
00:01:38,682 --> 00:01:44,062
Blue Note, to me,
is a label of innovators,
27
00:01:44,813 --> 00:01:45,939
of game changers.
28
00:01:55,073 --> 00:01:57,618
If you really chart the history
of Blue Note Records,
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00:01:57,743 --> 00:02:00,704
every decade, the artists
that they signed to the label
30
00:02:00,871 --> 00:02:03,081
turned the music world
upside down.
31
00:02:07,210 --> 00:02:10,088
Those artists reflect the times
and what's going on.
32
00:02:11,173 --> 00:02:13,675
As soon as I put on the record,
I'm just transported
33
00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,178
to a certain time
or a certain feeling
34
00:02:16,345 --> 00:02:19,222
or a certain understanding
of the world.
35
00:02:35,864 --> 00:02:38,909
Blue Note caught
what Bud Powell was doing,
36
00:02:39,743 --> 00:02:41,703
it caught a lot of stuff
that Miles was doing.
37
00:02:41,828 --> 00:02:44,581
- It caught their humanity...
- Yeah.
38
00:02:44,748 --> 00:02:47,918
...that's within the music,
and hope and freedom.
39
00:02:50,754 --> 00:02:53,924
A lot of the artists that found
their home at Blue Note,
40
00:02:54,049 --> 00:02:57,094
understood that we all had
the survival situation,
41
00:02:58,095 --> 00:03:01,598
survival in common, and that
came out through their music.
42
00:03:04,518 --> 00:03:08,271
On the surface, you hear
an amazing musician performing.
43
00:03:08,939 --> 00:03:11,942
But the fight,
the internal struggle,
44
00:03:12,609 --> 00:03:16,196
that familiar way of fighting
through the instrument.
45
00:03:16,655 --> 00:03:19,074
Later on, when my generation
hears it, like,
46
00:03:19,199 --> 00:03:21,827
"Wow, why does this feel
like we own it?"
47
00:03:21,993 --> 00:03:23,662
"Why does it speak to me
in such a way?"
48
00:03:44,641 --> 00:03:45,892
OK, you ready?
49
00:04:04,995 --> 00:04:08,331
The one thing
that all the greats did was
50
00:04:08,498 --> 00:04:10,083
never let go of who they are,
51
00:04:10,208 --> 00:04:13,086
never turn away from who
they are and their experiences.
52
00:04:13,253 --> 00:04:16,131
'Cause your experience and what
you've been through in your life
53
00:04:16,298 --> 00:04:17,883
makes you sound
the way you sound.
54
00:04:24,806 --> 00:04:28,518
Most of the great art comes out
of messed-up situations.
55
00:04:29,269 --> 00:04:30,604
You just need something
56
00:04:30,729 --> 00:04:34,357
to be released from that,
to go somewhere.
57
00:04:35,108 --> 00:04:36,568
That's where jazz is
born out of.
58
00:04:36,693 --> 00:04:38,403
Hip hop was born out of that.
59
00:04:38,612 --> 00:04:41,281
So that's what we have
to still do today.
60
00:05:37,796 --> 00:05:39,923
Nowadays, with what's going on
in the world,
61
00:05:40,090 --> 00:05:43,593
I think it's forcing people
to tap into that realness,
62
00:05:43,844 --> 00:05:46,012
that experience
really right from there.
63
00:05:57,691 --> 00:06:01,945
A lot of this music has to do
with how we feel about America
64
00:06:02,112 --> 00:06:07,659
and how we came
from seeming to progress
65
00:06:07,784 --> 00:06:13,540
to going back to an era
that we fought to get away from.
66
00:06:25,927 --> 00:06:29,306
A lot of that feeling,
that kind of frustration,
67
00:06:29,472 --> 00:06:30,974
some of that's in the music,
68
00:06:31,099 --> 00:06:32,976
along with
all the hopeful stuff.
69
00:06:43,820 --> 00:06:47,908
The music is only a tool
to express what's inside.
70
00:07:18,897 --> 00:07:20,857
Being an African-American,
71
00:07:20,982 --> 00:07:22,984
the music itself was
a special statement
72
00:07:23,526 --> 00:07:25,153
and it is a special statement.
73
00:07:26,488 --> 00:07:31,618
To me, jazz represents freedom
in two different kind of ways.
74
00:07:31,743 --> 00:07:34,245
You can be an individual
inside of the music,
75
00:07:34,412 --> 00:07:36,581
but still helping
with the whole.
76
00:07:56,810 --> 00:07:58,186
That's a fade, anyway.
77
00:07:58,687 --> 00:07:59,104
Whoo!
78
00:07:59,229 --> 00:08:00,188
Let's do one more.
79
00:08:00,647 --> 00:08:03,483
And this time, when you cue
yourbfidgeu.
80
00:08:03,608 --> 00:08:04,609
Take 22.
81
00:08:05,235 --> 00:08:06,653
23. Take 23.
82
00:08:08,113 --> 00:08:11,783
You're listening to
the 'Scope of Jazz' on WBAI FM
83
00:08:12,492 --> 00:08:14,577
and our guests tonight are
AI Lion and Frank Wolff
84
00:08:14,703 --> 00:08:15,954
of Blue Note Records.
85
00:08:16,079 --> 00:08:19,165
First of all, AI,
the usual opening question,
86
00:08:19,332 --> 00:08:21,459
the genesis
of your own beginnings
87
00:08:21,626 --> 00:08:23,169
as someone interested in jazz?
88
00:08:23,795 --> 00:08:29,551
It happened in about 1926,
in Berlin, Germany.
89
00:08:32,095 --> 00:08:34,014
My mother brought a record home
90
00:08:34,139 --> 00:08:36,599
and I was very much impressed
with what I heard,
91
00:08:36,766 --> 00:08:40,520
not knowing that it was jazz
or what it was all about.
92
00:08:40,687 --> 00:08:42,605
But I got very interested
in the record.
93
00:08:44,983 --> 00:08:47,277
And, Frank, what was
your parallel experience?
94
00:08:47,402 --> 00:08:49,696
- When did you first hear jazz?
- In Berlin.
95
00:08:49,863 --> 00:08:54,451
And my recollection is that
I liked the music tremendously,
96
00:08:54,617 --> 00:08:57,120
but I didn't understand it.
I couldn't follow it.
97
00:08:57,662 --> 00:08:58,830
But I just liked it.
98
00:09:13,553 --> 00:09:15,305
Well, they both came over
from Europe.
99
00:09:15,430 --> 00:09:18,266
They were boyhood friends and...
100
00:09:19,142 --> 00:09:22,020
once, or twice maybe,
101
00:09:22,145 --> 00:09:25,023
yes, they went back to
those times and why they left.
102
00:09:25,190 --> 00:09:27,150
They referred to
what it was like.
103
00:09:28,068 --> 00:09:31,404
Twice they mentioned it,
in all that time I knew them.
104
00:09:32,238 --> 00:09:34,783
And it was just brief mentions.
105
00:09:35,575 --> 00:09:37,619
They were looking for freedom,
of course.
106
00:09:38,078 --> 00:09:40,330
You had to be a fool
to have ignored that.
107
00:09:58,723 --> 00:10:00,683
That's why they understood,
108
00:10:00,809 --> 00:10:02,727
gave so many cats a chance.
109
00:10:03,770 --> 00:10:07,107
And cats gave them a chance
as well. Trusting them.
110
00:10:12,987 --> 00:10:14,155
I felt the music.
111
00:10:14,948 --> 00:10:18,118
And not knowing, actually,
what made me feel it.
112
00:10:18,701 --> 00:10:21,412
It must have been the beat and
the way the music came about,
113
00:10:21,538 --> 00:10:22,872
came across to me.
114
00:10:24,457 --> 00:10:28,253
And I was so impressed that
I felt I would like to go out
115
00:10:28,378 --> 00:10:30,338
and make some records myself
with them.
116
00:10:30,713 --> 00:10:33,299
- For your own enjoyment?
- For my own enjoyment, yes.
117
00:10:34,634 --> 00:10:35,885
That's how it started.
118
00:10:40,140 --> 00:10:43,059
They were fans.
They were rabid fans.
119
00:10:43,726 --> 00:10:46,229
I think they were just records
that they wanted to hear,
120
00:10:46,396 --> 00:10:48,231
so they decided
they were going to make them.
121
00:10:48,398 --> 00:10:51,234
And they didn't know anything
about making records.
122
00:10:51,359 --> 00:10:54,362
And I don't think they ever lost
the purity
123
00:10:54,779 --> 00:10:56,573
and the innocence
that came with it.
124
00:10:57,574 --> 00:11:00,076
I think that they understood
the value
125
00:11:00,201 --> 00:11:02,036
of trusting in the musicians.
126
00:11:21,723 --> 00:11:24,726
One nice summer afternoon
we cut the first sides.
127
00:11:24,851 --> 00:11:26,477
It was a very relaxed session.
128
00:11:26,644 --> 00:11:28,438
Nobody watched the time
129
00:11:28,730 --> 00:11:30,732
and the boys had a chance
to stretch out.
130
00:11:38,615 --> 00:11:41,826
Any record we ever made, we were
never really figuring on a hit.
131
00:11:41,951 --> 00:11:44,078
If later it became successful,
132
00:11:44,245 --> 00:11:46,122
it just happened
to become successful.
133
00:11:46,289 --> 00:11:50,293
We didn't make the record with
that intention, to make a hit.
134
00:11:58,134 --> 00:12:01,804
Alfred Lion and Frank Wolff,
they were hearing this music,
135
00:12:01,930 --> 00:12:05,266
not only as music
but as a valued treasure.
136
00:12:06,392 --> 00:12:09,062
I think the question from
other record companies was,
137
00:12:09,646 --> 00:12:12,148
"Why would someone
start a record company
138
00:12:12,273 --> 00:12:13,441
not to make money?"
139
00:12:16,986 --> 00:12:19,489
Yeah, Alfred and Frank,
they never...
140
00:12:20,198 --> 00:12:22,825
I never got a sense of pressure
from them
141
00:12:22,951 --> 00:12:24,994
to create in any particular way
142
00:12:25,161 --> 00:12:27,914
other than
whatever might come out of me.
143
00:12:29,540 --> 00:12:32,794
What they were searching for
was to get the heart
144
00:12:32,919 --> 00:12:35,588
of the individuals
creating the music
145
00:12:36,089 --> 00:12:40,176
to have a platform
for expression.
146
00:12:40,343 --> 00:12:43,012
And that heart
is affected by the times.
147
00:12:44,180 --> 00:12:46,349
Because we were living in it!
148
00:13:03,658 --> 00:13:06,369
Alfred Lion and Frank Wolff
and Rudy Van Gelder,
149
00:13:06,536 --> 00:13:10,456
they were trying to support
the goal we were always seeking,
150
00:13:10,581 --> 00:13:15,670
which is to allow the music
to emerge
151
00:13:16,379 --> 00:13:18,423
without being shackled.
152
00:13:31,227 --> 00:13:33,146
Oh, all the record companies
were white.
153
00:13:34,272 --> 00:13:36,232
Until they started later:
154
00:13:36,858 --> 00:13:39,902
Motown, Stax Records
out of Memphis,
155
00:13:40,028 --> 00:13:41,988
but all the record companies
were white.
156
00:13:42,238 --> 00:13:43,865
Cheap, cheap white, too.
157
00:13:45,325 --> 00:13:47,201
They was a bunch of scoundrels.
158
00:13:48,161 --> 00:13:49,829
I should name them, but I won't.
159
00:13:51,873 --> 00:13:55,460
But not Alfred.
Alfred was not like that.
160
00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,254
He just let us do
what we wanted to do
161
00:13:58,379 --> 00:14:01,257
and if he had a suggestion,
he might come around,
162
00:14:01,424 --> 00:14:03,176
say one or two things, cos...
163
00:14:03,843 --> 00:14:05,678
he didn't know that much
about music.
164
00:14:05,970 --> 00:14:07,638
And he didn't bother musicians.
165
00:14:08,514 --> 00:14:10,850
He respected everybody.
166
00:14:11,434 --> 00:14:13,269
He was a nice, nice person.
167
00:14:13,728 --> 00:14:16,439
Frank, too.
Frank was nice. Very nice.
168
00:14:16,564 --> 00:14:19,233
Frank would be walking around
taking photos,
169
00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,987
but when the music got good,
he started dancing.
170
00:14:23,905 --> 00:14:25,406
Trying to dance.
171
00:14:28,034 --> 00:14:29,535
And I loved 'em, both of 'em.
172
00:14:30,286 --> 00:14:34,165
And they loved me. I'd take
my family down there, you know,
173
00:14:34,290 --> 00:14:36,334
and all of them got
very friendly.
174
00:14:51,766 --> 00:14:53,518
Yeah, this is Thelonious Monk.
175
00:14:53,643 --> 00:14:57,271
This is one
of the 1951 sessions.
176
00:14:57,438 --> 00:14:59,982
And it featured
Kenny Dorham on trumpet
177
00:15:00,149 --> 00:15:02,902
and Lou Donaldson on sax.
178
00:15:03,986 --> 00:15:07,740
Through the years, Alfred Lion
and Francis Wolff developed
179
00:15:07,865 --> 00:15:12,120
a lot of very strong friendships
among the musicians
180
00:15:12,286 --> 00:15:14,163
and I remember
Bobby Hutcherson saying,
181
00:15:14,288 --> 00:15:16,999
"You know, they never seemed
like outsiders.
182
00:15:17,125 --> 00:15:20,002
They didn't play an instrument,
they had heavy German accents,
183
00:15:20,169 --> 00:15:22,797
but they were just one of us,
they hung with us,
184
00:15:22,964 --> 00:15:25,341
they'd always go out and hear
music, eat with the guys,
185
00:15:25,508 --> 00:15:27,009
and hang out with the guys."
186
00:15:27,176 --> 00:15:30,012
And they were very well accepted
by the musicians.
187
00:15:30,471 --> 00:15:31,973
Of course, it was a slow start.
188
00:15:32,098 --> 00:15:33,975
They didn't make any money
for years.
189
00:15:34,434 --> 00:15:36,102
It was a hand-to-mouth
existence.
190
00:15:37,186 --> 00:15:40,189
Without Alfred, I probably
wouldn't be sitting here myself.
191
00:15:41,065 --> 00:15:44,235
Cos I was just a little country
boy, coming to New York.
192
00:15:44,735 --> 00:15:50,158
I was playing at Minton's
in 1949, and he came by.
193
00:15:50,825 --> 00:15:54,370
He had Ike Quebec with him,
his right-hand guy,
194
00:15:54,537 --> 00:15:55,705
he heard me playing,
195
00:15:55,872 --> 00:15:58,624
and asked me if I wanted
to record for Blue Note.
196
00:15:58,749 --> 00:16:01,043
And I don't know
what he expected me to say,
197
00:16:01,419 --> 00:16:03,129
a young guy with no money.
198
00:16:04,839 --> 00:16:06,132
So I said, "Of course."
199
00:16:06,591 --> 00:16:09,469
And he asked me, could I play
like Charlie Parker?
200
00:16:11,137 --> 00:16:13,097
And, of course, I told him yes.
201
00:16:14,724 --> 00:16:18,352
But I knew I couldn't.
I wanted a record date.
202
00:16:21,022 --> 00:16:25,234
And Alfred was lucky because
he had Ike Quebec to help him.
203
00:16:25,401 --> 00:16:28,154
Ike was telling him.
Ike was a smart guy
204
00:16:28,279 --> 00:16:30,490
who brought a lot of people
to the company.
205
00:16:31,282 --> 00:16:33,618
He knew when you could play
and when you couldn't.
206
00:16:34,327 --> 00:16:36,204
If somebody come along
who couldn't play,
207
00:16:36,329 --> 00:16:37,663
they wouldn't record it.
208
00:16:38,664 --> 00:16:39,999
Let me straighten it out!
209
00:16:40,124 --> 00:16:41,834
Everybody else felt
everything all right.
210
00:16:42,001 --> 00:16:45,546
OK, nobody but me.
I'm asking you this, man.
211
00:16:45,713 --> 00:16:49,759
- I don't know what you felt!
- At the end of the channel.
212
00:16:50,384 --> 00:16:51,844
Take, uh, 7.
213
00:16:52,136 --> 00:16:53,763
7, 7, 7.
214
00:17:06,275 --> 00:17:09,111
We had gotten to the point where
AI, for his own entertainment,
215
00:17:09,278 --> 00:17:11,739
had recorded the three
boogie-woogie piano players,
216
00:17:12,031 --> 00:17:15,618
Ammons, Johnson and Lewis.
Whom did you record after that?
217
00:17:15,743 --> 00:17:19,622
Next was Bechet and Art Hodes,
Edmond Hall.
218
00:17:20,248 --> 00:17:23,209
And we kept making
Dixieland records
219
00:17:23,751 --> 00:17:25,836
and slowly drifted over
into the swing
220
00:17:25,962 --> 00:17:28,548
and from there into the modern,
into the bop.
221
00:17:29,465 --> 00:17:30,550
Within 10 years,
222
00:17:30,675 --> 00:17:33,135
they'd decided
they were gonna go into bebop.
223
00:17:33,261 --> 00:17:35,805
And, of all the artists
they could have chosen,
224
00:17:35,972 --> 00:17:40,810
they chose Thelonious Monk, who
was kind of taking stride piano
225
00:17:40,977 --> 00:17:42,812
and turning it inside out,
226
00:17:42,937 --> 00:17:45,815
just bringing in
these crazy chord voicings
227
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:51,821
and who totally revolutionised
the nature of jazz composition.
228
00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:53,739
And they got behind him.
229
00:18:22,935 --> 00:18:24,979
When did Monk record for you
first?
230
00:18:25,104 --> 00:18:26,564
1947.
231
00:18:27,607 --> 00:18:29,483
And Monk never made
any records before.
232
00:18:29,984 --> 00:18:32,486
What was the reaction
to your first Monk recordings?
233
00:18:32,612 --> 00:18:34,864
The reaction was mixed.
Some liked him very much
234
00:18:35,031 --> 00:18:36,741
and some thought
he was terrible.
235
00:18:38,367 --> 00:18:41,704
Monk played his own music.
Monk played his own music.
236
00:18:41,829 --> 00:18:46,042
And he should be put
in that category. Monk's music.
237
00:18:46,959 --> 00:18:48,753
He was an outstanding guy.
238
00:18:48,878 --> 00:18:51,631
He had his own way of playing
and it was different.
239
00:18:52,673 --> 00:18:54,467
It was kinda hard
to play with him,
240
00:18:54,592 --> 00:18:56,385
but if you played with him
a while,
241
00:18:56,552 --> 00:18:58,679
you got used to his playing.
242
00:19:07,271 --> 00:19:09,565
Any preference on your part
for the solo order?
243
00:19:09,690 --> 00:19:12,360
We'll see how it's going.
OK?
244
00:19:13,277 --> 00:19:15,613
Where you see a nice place
for you to go in,
245
00:19:15,738 --> 00:19:19,325
then you pick your spot
and blow, pick it.
246
00:19:22,536 --> 00:19:25,790
He never said much,
but I'd ask him questions.
247
00:19:25,915 --> 00:19:28,668
"Is that right?"
He said, "Yes, it's all right."
248
00:19:28,834 --> 00:19:31,879
But he would never come over
and say, "You're playing wrong,
249
00:19:32,046 --> 00:19:33,756
you're doing that."
250
00:19:33,923 --> 00:19:36,592
You just had to try to follow
what he was doing,
251
00:19:37,385 --> 00:19:40,262
which was very hard to do
at that time.
252
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,140
Everybody wanted to play
with him
253
00:19:43,265 --> 00:19:45,434
and try to learn
what he was doing.
254
00:19:46,185 --> 00:19:48,187
He always had a certain style
about him,
255
00:19:48,312 --> 00:19:49,772
a certain vibe about him.
256
00:19:49,939 --> 00:19:52,775
He has his own thing and doesn't
waver from his own thing.
257
00:19:57,947 --> 00:20:01,283
So, in my mind, Monk is
the first hip-hop pianist.
258
00:20:01,909 --> 00:20:04,620
Cos nobody in jazz has swag
like Monk.
259
00:20:08,708 --> 00:20:11,961
He let me know at a young age
that it's OK to be myself.
260
00:20:13,003 --> 00:20:15,047
Not caring what the next man say
or sound like,
261
00:20:15,339 --> 00:20:17,258
doing you,
this is your testimony,
262
00:20:17,383 --> 00:20:19,719
standing up for you cos
that's what hip hop is about.
263
00:20:20,928 --> 00:20:22,346
Unapologetic, too.
264
00:20:23,389 --> 00:20:25,391
Be who you are
cos he was who he was.
265
00:20:26,308 --> 00:20:29,645
He wrote some of our classic
songs that we still play.
266
00:20:30,062 --> 00:20:33,149
I'm still puzzled at the times
he wrote these songs like...
267
00:20:35,234 --> 00:20:36,318
"Epistrophxh"
268
00:20:38,612 --> 00:20:43,325
And then something as groovy
and funky as "Blue Monk".
269
00:20:45,828 --> 00:20:46,871
"Trinkle Tinkle."
270
00:20:47,997 --> 00:20:49,123
"Round Midnight."
271
00:21:11,187 --> 00:21:12,646
Alfred loved Monk.
272
00:21:14,607 --> 00:21:16,859
I'd go to the office
and every time I went,
273
00:21:16,984 --> 00:21:18,819
I'd see Monk
and his wife Nellie.
274
00:21:18,986 --> 00:21:22,281
In fact, I thought Monk worked
there. He stayed there so much.
275
00:21:24,325 --> 00:21:27,328
Evidently, Alfred
was supporting him.
276
00:21:28,537 --> 00:21:31,290
Alfred developed such a passion
for Monk's music
277
00:21:31,415 --> 00:21:34,376
that he recorded
four lengthy recording sessions
278
00:21:34,543 --> 00:21:36,420
before he even put out
the first 78.
279
00:21:36,545 --> 00:21:39,048
He was just so obsessed
with Monk's music.
280
00:21:39,673 --> 00:21:42,718
Of course, as luck would have
it, Monk didn't sell at all.
281
00:21:42,843 --> 00:21:44,678
Most people didn't understand
the music,
282
00:21:45,095 --> 00:21:46,931
so it got a lot of resistance.
283
00:21:47,056 --> 00:21:50,392
And Alfred stayed with Monk
for about five years,
284
00:21:50,559 --> 00:21:52,311
then he just sort of had
to let it go
285
00:21:52,853 --> 00:21:54,647
because he had sunk
so much money into it
286
00:21:54,772 --> 00:21:56,398
and it was jeopardising
the label.
287
00:22:02,238 --> 00:22:04,073
But Alfred was that way.
288
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,450
He would stand behind
what he believed in,
289
00:22:06,575 --> 00:22:07,952
even if it wasn't selling.
290
00:22:08,118 --> 00:22:09,745
He'd take it as far as he could.
291
00:22:14,041 --> 00:22:17,419
Without Blue Note, you probably
would have never heard of Monk.
292
00:22:19,129 --> 00:22:23,217
Cos the other companies
like Columbia and Capitol,
293
00:22:24,301 --> 00:22:28,013
and those big companies,
they wouldn't record Monk.
294
00:22:29,723 --> 00:22:31,851
He was around.
They wouldn't record him.
295
00:22:32,643 --> 00:22:34,019
But Alfred did.
296
00:22:38,482 --> 00:22:41,402
Alfred recorded
a lot of bebop music.
297
00:22:42,486 --> 00:22:44,363
Bud Powell
and those kind of players.
298
00:22:44,822 --> 00:22:46,490
And that's what really made it.
299
00:22:47,449 --> 00:22:50,244
Alfred just really embraced
this new music
300
00:22:50,411 --> 00:22:52,538
and learned about the new music,
301
00:22:52,663 --> 00:22:54,582
then he started recording
with a passion
302
00:22:54,748 --> 00:22:57,293
when he made those
first sessions of Bud Powell.
303
00:22:57,918 --> 00:22:59,295
This next Powell recording
304
00:22:59,461 --> 00:23:01,130
has been one
of his most influential.
305
00:23:01,255 --> 00:23:04,091
I know young pianists talk about
this more than any other Powell.
306
00:23:04,216 --> 00:23:06,010
What was the date
of "Poco Loco"?
307
00:23:06,176 --> 00:23:07,678
- May '51.
- Bud Powell.
308
00:23:28,365 --> 00:23:30,743
I remember it was
a pretty frantic session.
309
00:23:30,868 --> 00:23:34,830
And Bud definitely wanted
to record a certain way.
310
00:23:35,748 --> 00:23:37,541
He made one take
and he made another one.
311
00:23:38,083 --> 00:23:40,044
Still we didn't get
where we wanted to.
312
00:23:40,169 --> 00:23:41,503
It took a little while.
313
00:23:57,519 --> 00:23:59,521
Bud Powell meant a great deal
to Alfred,
314
00:23:59,647 --> 00:24:01,148
personally as well as musically.
315
00:24:01,899 --> 00:24:04,526
He did his very first session
in 1949
316
00:24:04,652 --> 00:24:06,904
and he recorded him until 1958.
317
00:24:10,699 --> 00:24:12,868
Bud Powell was
instantly recognised,
318
00:24:12,993 --> 00:24:15,579
first by musicians,
but then by the audience.
319
00:24:22,628 --> 00:24:25,172
Bud Powell, was he
a difficult man to record?
320
00:24:25,464 --> 00:24:28,550
He wasn't difficult to record.
He just had his days, you know?
321
00:24:29,301 --> 00:24:32,680
But we were always very lucky
with Bud Powell.
322
00:24:32,930 --> 00:24:35,683
I think it's more than luck.
He's made some dreadful records
323
00:24:35,808 --> 00:24:37,559
and somehow
he comes to Blue Note
324
00:24:37,726 --> 00:24:39,520
and you gel' a very good one
out of him.
325
00:24:39,895 --> 00:24:42,481
Well, there might be a reason
for that in a Wa y
326
00:24:42,606 --> 00:24:44,817
because Bud and I are
very close friends.
327
00:24:44,984 --> 00:24:47,111
And I understand his way.
328
00:24:47,736 --> 00:24:49,655
I think you have to understand
an artist
329
00:24:49,780 --> 00:24:51,907
to really get something
out of them.
330
00:24:53,492 --> 00:24:57,246
Prestige was all right.
I knew Bob Weinstock, President.
331
00:24:58,247 --> 00:24:59,665
He liked jazz, too.
332
00:25:01,625 --> 00:25:04,086
Savoy, all those records,
they liked jazz.
333
00:25:04,837 --> 00:25:07,756
But they didn't press it
and put it out like Alfred.
334
00:25:08,424 --> 00:25:09,717
The sound was better.
335
00:25:10,342 --> 00:25:11,885
The musicians were better.
336
00:25:14,430 --> 00:25:17,266
All right, come on,
AI says, "Let's play."
337
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,936
Alfred always spent time
with the musicians.
338
00:25:21,061 --> 00:25:22,646
He had planning meetings
with them,
339
00:25:22,771 --> 00:25:25,024
talked about who the side men
would be.
340
00:25:25,649 --> 00:25:29,153
And he always encouraged
the artist to compose new music.
341
00:25:29,778 --> 00:25:33,115
He didn't want just the
thousandth version of "Caravan".
342
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:34,450
He wanted new material.
343
00:25:34,616 --> 00:25:36,744
He wanted everything
to be fresh and vital.
344
00:25:39,455 --> 00:25:41,290
And he always paid
for rehearsals.
345
00:25:41,623 --> 00:25:43,959
You have a solo
and you bring me in.
346
00:25:44,084 --> 00:25:46,628
Yeah, well, you count it out
loud again and play it.
347
00:25:48,297 --> 00:25:50,841
Not only the production
of the music,
348
00:25:50,966 --> 00:25:53,427
but also Francis Wolff's
photographs,
349
00:25:53,719 --> 00:25:55,304
the cover art
that Reid Miles did.
350
00:25:55,888 --> 00:25:58,515
It all added to the impact
of each of the albums.
351
00:26:03,562 --> 00:26:05,689
Reid Miles was
a very unique designer
352
00:26:06,148 --> 00:26:08,233
because he was able
to make every album
353
00:26:08,358 --> 00:26:10,110
different from the next album,
354
00:26:10,277 --> 00:26:12,488
but they all looked
like Blue Note records.
355
00:26:20,537 --> 00:26:22,581
Reid would create
the typography,
356
00:26:22,706 --> 00:26:26,335
then he would go and take
Frank's photos and crop them
357
00:26:26,502 --> 00:26:29,671
to the point that drove Frank
nuts and create the covers.
358
00:26:30,130 --> 00:26:32,049
So it was a remarkable team
359
00:26:32,174 --> 00:26:34,384
that really worked
in its own way.
360
00:26:40,349 --> 00:26:42,768
What is truly amazing
about these photographs
361
00:26:42,893 --> 00:26:46,605
is that Frank was running
around the studio,
362
00:26:47,022 --> 00:26:50,025
catching candid shots
in a 16th of a second
363
00:26:50,192 --> 00:26:51,860
and they're all
perfectly framed.
364
00:26:52,027 --> 00:26:54,863
They capture a moment
and they really focus
365
00:26:54,988 --> 00:26:57,032
on the face of the musician.
366
00:26:57,991 --> 00:27:01,078
For example, on "Blue Train",
367
00:27:01,745 --> 00:27:03,747
this was a favourite device
of Frank's
368
00:27:03,872 --> 00:27:07,751
where he would shoot the tenor
with another musician's face
369
00:27:07,918 --> 00:27:10,254
in the curve of the tenor.
370
00:27:12,506 --> 00:27:15,801
I'm sure our listeners like
to hear you express
371
00:27:15,926 --> 00:27:20,222
what you think is Iistenable
among your whole production.
372
00:27:21,348 --> 00:27:23,225
Oh, you mean of the albums
that I've made?
373
00:27:23,392 --> 00:27:23,976
Yes.
374
00:27:24,101 --> 00:27:28,063
I like "Blue Train"...
myself.
375
00:27:28,689 --> 00:27:29,648
I figured you would.
376
00:27:30,566 --> 00:27:32,985
It's such a good band
on there, you know?
377
00:27:33,110 --> 00:27:35,404
That's a really dangerous album.
378
00:27:35,571 --> 00:27:37,573
And it was a good recording.
379
00:27:56,049 --> 00:27:58,594
"Blue Train" was
such an important work.
380
00:27:59,845 --> 00:28:02,139
It changed the face of jazz
for ever.
381
00:28:04,766 --> 00:28:09,021
That's one of the reasons why
I knew I wanted to play music.
382
00:28:09,730 --> 00:28:11,607
Cos I said If somebody
can translate
383
00:28:11,732 --> 00:28:14,735
these soundwaves into my body
and make me feel this way,
384
00:28:14,860 --> 00:28:16,320
I want to be included in that.
385
00:28:35,297 --> 00:28:38,717
If you're expressing life
through the music,
386
00:28:38,842 --> 00:28:42,137
even when you're not aware that
that is your goal,
387
00:28:42,304 --> 00:28:48,060
being yourself and finding
yourself, revealing yourself,
388
00:28:48,185 --> 00:28:51,563
I think that's really
what life is all about.
389
00:28:52,189 --> 00:28:56,568
But along the way, helping
everybody else to do that, too.
390
00:28:59,154 --> 00:29:02,074
Cos I think that's part
of the completion of the music.
391
00:29:02,199 --> 00:29:05,452
What's contained on a record
itself is incomplete,
392
00:29:06,453 --> 00:29:09,581
'cause it doesn't include
the process of the person
393
00:29:10,332 --> 00:29:12,501
listening to it
and how it affects them.
394
00:29:31,270 --> 00:29:33,355
When you look at
the really classic records
395
00:29:33,522 --> 00:29:34,982
of the Blue Note sound,
396
00:29:35,107 --> 00:29:37,484
you're realising
it's a community of musicians
397
00:29:37,651 --> 00:29:40,112
that have come together
in different configurations,
398
00:29:40,279 --> 00:29:44,533
at different times, but each
of them are hugely individual.
399
00:29:45,325 --> 00:29:47,452
Then you took somebody
like Rudy Van Gelder
400
00:29:47,577 --> 00:29:51,373
who could capture that sound,
get their individual sound,
401
00:29:51,540 --> 00:29:54,001
but also keep
the Blue Note sound intact.
402
00:29:54,167 --> 00:29:56,044
I think that was
something very special.
403
00:29:57,671 --> 00:29:59,381
I personally liked the music,
404
00:29:59,506 --> 00:30:01,341
so I kind of was drawn
to musicians
405
00:30:01,508 --> 00:30:03,010
who were jazz musicians.
406
00:30:03,885 --> 00:30:06,221
I just liked that freedom
of improvisation
407
00:30:06,346 --> 00:30:09,558
and the recognition
of individual musicians.
408
00:30:09,891 --> 00:30:12,019
Like there was
such and such a name
409
00:30:12,144 --> 00:30:15,897
and you get to know them all
by the way they sounded.
410
00:30:16,606 --> 00:30:18,567
Yeah, I started as a fan.
411
00:30:19,276 --> 00:30:21,820
When Alfred came to me,
I knew what he wanted.
412
00:30:22,321 --> 00:30:24,239
He knew that I could get it
for him
413
00:30:24,364 --> 00:30:26,742
and that's how it started
when we came together.
414
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:28,410
We're still rolling.
415
00:30:30,412 --> 00:30:32,205
This is light, upbeat.
416
00:30:32,331 --> 00:30:35,917
Not no jig-a-joom,
teek-tiddy-boom, tiddy-boom, OK?
417
00:30:37,085 --> 00:30:39,171
Gentlemen, gentlemen, take one.
418
00:30:39,755 --> 00:30:42,174
It was my parents' home
and I was allowed
419
00:30:42,299 --> 00:30:45,677
to use the living room
to record my jazz music.
420
00:30:46,470 --> 00:30:48,722
They allowed me to put
a control room window
421
00:30:49,473 --> 00:30:52,267
in one of the walls
to the living room.
422
00:30:52,684 --> 00:30:57,189
I had all the equipment in there
to record my jazz music.
423
00:30:57,939 --> 00:31:01,651
But Alfred was a genius,
and he knew what I needed to do
424
00:31:01,777 --> 00:31:02,903
in order to make it sound
425
00:31:03,028 --> 00:31:04,946
the way he expected it
to sound like.
426
00:31:05,530 --> 00:31:09,659
And he would rehearse
every date that he made,
427
00:31:09,785 --> 00:31:11,953
not so about the other
companies like Prestige
428
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:13,622
where they would have
to be ready
429
00:31:13,789 --> 00:31:15,540
to play just music
that they knew.
430
00:31:15,665 --> 00:31:18,251
That's why you get
a lot more standards
431
00:31:18,418 --> 00:31:20,462
and simple music
on the Prestige.
432
00:31:21,588 --> 00:31:23,340
So when he would come
to the studio,
433
00:31:23,465 --> 00:31:26,802
he'd know in his mind how the
finished product would sound.
434
00:31:27,928 --> 00:31:29,304
And by the way, Frank...
435
00:31:29,429 --> 00:31:32,766
They would sometimes disagree
and there'd be big arguments.
436
00:31:32,933 --> 00:31:35,560
"I liked that take."
"Well, I liked this solo."
437
00:31:35,685 --> 00:31:38,980
Those decisions came
out of their interplay.
438
00:31:39,398 --> 00:31:41,316
At the end of the session,
everyone said,
439
00:31:41,483 --> 00:31:43,985
"That's the good music,"
including the musicians.
440
00:31:44,486 --> 00:31:46,988
That was the end
of the musicians' involvement.
441
00:31:47,155 --> 00:31:49,574
They trusted Alfred,
who trusted me,
442
00:31:49,699 --> 00:31:51,118
and that's how it went.
443
00:31:53,161 --> 00:31:54,454
Miles, start again.
444
00:31:54,913 --> 00:31:56,164
Miles, start again.
445
00:31:57,290 --> 00:31:59,418
"I Waited For You," take two.
446
00:31:59,543 --> 00:32:00,877
Wait a little longer!
447
00:32:09,386 --> 00:32:11,513
- Say it again.
- Other mic, Miles, please.
448
00:32:11,638 --> 00:32:12,931
A little bit more...
449
00:32:14,766 --> 00:32:17,602
OK, here we go.
"I Waited For You," take three.
450
00:32:48,216 --> 00:32:49,718
During his Prestige years,
451
00:32:49,843 --> 00:32:53,472
Miles Davis was able to make
three wonderful dates
452
00:32:53,597 --> 00:32:54,890
for Blue Note.
453
00:32:55,182 --> 00:32:58,643
And even when he was at Columbia
he went back to Blue Note
454
00:32:58,768 --> 00:33:01,021
to make an album
called "Somethin' Else"
455
00:33:01,188 --> 00:33:02,564
with Cannonball Adderley.
456
00:33:03,899 --> 00:33:07,152
And I know that he really loved
Alfred Lion.
457
00:33:07,652 --> 00:33:09,154
Play another one, Alfred.
458
00:33:11,239 --> 00:33:13,325
- Another one?
- Yeah, this is gonna be it.
459
00:33:13,783 --> 00:33:17,537
Some of my clients wanted
larger rooms for more musicians,
460
00:33:17,996 --> 00:33:19,164
so I needed a bigger room.
461
00:33:21,625 --> 00:33:23,502
So I said,
"OK, I'm gonna build a studio."
462
00:33:35,096 --> 00:33:37,224
We liked the style
of Frank Lloyd Wright.
463
00:33:37,349 --> 00:33:40,602
We liked the materials he used,
the shape of the rooms,
464
00:33:41,019 --> 00:33:43,605
so we hired one of his students.
465
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,780
We wanted the music to have
space, so I built it up high.
466
00:33:52,906 --> 00:33:54,658
Yeah, that's pretty high
right there.
467
00:33:56,326 --> 00:33:57,786
Three storeys high.
468
00:33:59,955 --> 00:34:01,790
A lot of people,
when I first came to town,
469
00:34:01,957 --> 00:34:04,209
they thought, "Look at that,
it's gonna be a church."
470
00:34:07,546 --> 00:34:09,881
I remember the first time
I heard a Blue Note record.
471
00:34:10,006 --> 00:34:12,133
I was about 14.
472
00:34:12,801 --> 00:34:13,969
I'll never forget it.
473
00:34:14,135 --> 00:34:17,681
It was Joe Henderson's solo
on "Mode for Joe"
474
00:34:17,806 --> 00:34:20,308
where he's making these...
I don't even call them notes.
475
00:34:20,475 --> 00:34:24,229
They're like animalistic cries
of anguish.
476
00:34:24,854 --> 00:34:27,232
I thought,
"Whoa, what is this music?"
477
00:34:43,248 --> 00:34:45,041
These guys looked so cool.
478
00:34:46,001 --> 00:34:49,004
I'd look at Francis Wolff's
black-and-white photos
479
00:34:49,170 --> 00:34:52,924
and see these guys in the room
with all the smoke and...
480
00:34:53,049 --> 00:34:56,177
It was always dark, man. There
were no walls you could see.
481
00:34:56,720 --> 00:34:58,346
And I just wanted to be there.
482
00:34:58,888 --> 00:35:01,433
The Beatles looked cool.
Jimi Hendrix looked cool.
483
00:35:02,350 --> 00:35:03,727
These guys looked cooler.
484
00:35:05,020 --> 00:35:06,521
What's the first one?
485
00:35:06,646 --> 00:35:08,398
Freddie Hubbard's
"Breaking Point".
486
00:35:09,149 --> 00:35:10,900
Freddie Hubbard's
"Breaking Point",
487
00:35:11,026 --> 00:35:12,402
classic Blue Note record.
488
00:35:19,743 --> 00:35:21,828
I never wanted to work
for a record company.
489
00:35:23,330 --> 00:35:26,333
But Blue Note was irresistible
490
00:35:26,791 --> 00:35:29,002
because I'd grown up
listening to those records
491
00:35:29,169 --> 00:35:33,214
and because to me it represented
artistry of the highest order.
492
00:35:35,342 --> 00:35:38,219
A lot of jazz purists were like,
493
00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:41,348
"What, the B-52's
and The Rolling Stones?
494
00:35:41,473 --> 00:35:43,266
He's gonna ruin the company."
495
00:35:44,184 --> 00:35:48,313
You've got Don
who's, like, produced everybody
496
00:35:48,438 --> 00:35:51,775
and so he's got the greatest set
of ears ever,
497
00:35:51,941 --> 00:35:55,111
so you're not dealing
with a real corporate person
498
00:35:55,278 --> 00:35:58,114
that's coming in
from a real business standpoint
499
00:35:58,281 --> 00:35:59,824
that doesn't really get
the music.
500
00:35:59,991 --> 00:36:02,911
You've got somebody that
this is their personal passion.
501
00:36:03,078 --> 00:36:04,746
Switch the outputs, yeah.
502
00:36:11,503 --> 00:36:12,587
When you're mastering,
503
00:36:12,754 --> 00:36:16,591
you can dramatically change
the sound of the music.
504
00:36:20,053 --> 00:36:22,263
But our job
in re-mastering the stuff
505
00:36:22,430 --> 00:36:24,766
is not to editorialise
in any way,
506
00:36:24,891 --> 00:36:28,645
but to make sure that
the artist's original intentions
507
00:36:28,812 --> 00:36:31,773
are maintained through
the various manifestations
508
00:36:31,940 --> 00:36:33,483
that technology brings.
509
00:36:39,864 --> 00:36:43,493
The old records represent about
half the income for the company
510
00:36:43,618 --> 00:36:45,245
and new music is the other half,
511
00:36:45,954 --> 00:36:51,209
so even in the changing world
of the music business,
512
00:36:51,876 --> 00:36:54,629
because of the integrity
of Alfred Lion
513
00:36:54,796 --> 00:36:56,798
and the artists
he brought to the company,
514
00:36:56,965 --> 00:36:58,425
the doors stay open.
515
00:37:00,051 --> 00:37:02,721
With us tonight, one of
the outstanding jazz trumpeters
516
00:37:02,846 --> 00:37:04,681
in the country today,
Clifford Brown.
517
00:37:11,312 --> 00:37:13,106
Oh, that's a great picture
there.
518
00:37:15,150 --> 00:37:16,526
That's a great picture.
519
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,112
One of the greatest
of all times.
520
00:37:21,156 --> 00:37:23,992
Clifford Brown was down
in Wilmington, Delaware,
521
00:37:24,159 --> 00:37:26,369
so I said, "Let me go there
and check him out."
522
00:37:26,494 --> 00:37:27,704
When I got down there,
523
00:37:27,871 --> 00:37:29,998
I said, "I want you
to do a record date."
524
00:37:30,331 --> 00:37:32,125
You see, he had a car accident
525
00:37:32,292 --> 00:37:34,711
and knocked his shoulder
out of place
526
00:37:35,336 --> 00:37:36,838
and he can't hold his horn,
527
00:37:37,005 --> 00:37:40,675
but he got his trumpet
and put it up on the fence.
528
00:37:41,301 --> 00:37:42,844
We played a couple of tunes.
529
00:37:42,969 --> 00:37:45,680
I said, "You could make the date
like that." He said, "No."
530
00:37:46,181 --> 00:37:50,185
So I said, "I'll call you and
you can get in touch with Alfred
531
00:37:50,351 --> 00:37:51,519
and come to New York."
532
00:37:51,686 --> 00:37:53,855
Then his first date
was made with me.
533
00:37:54,773 --> 00:37:57,609
It wasn't the "Memorial Album".
It was my date.
534
00:37:58,526 --> 00:38:00,069
Not the "Memorial Album".
535
00:38:00,195 --> 00:38:01,780
They just called it
the "Memorial Album"
536
00:38:01,905 --> 00:38:03,281
because he died.
537
00:38:04,866 --> 00:38:06,034
Car accident.
538
00:38:07,952 --> 00:38:10,705
When people talk
about Clifford Brown,
539
00:38:10,830 --> 00:38:12,665
they talk about him
with such reverence.
540
00:38:24,010 --> 00:38:27,388
Just his seriousness.
I mean, this guy was so serious.
541
00:38:27,514 --> 00:38:29,557
You know, he didn't drink,
he didn't party.
542
00:38:29,724 --> 00:38:31,893
He was always practising,
like Coltrane.
543
00:38:33,561 --> 00:38:37,065
And to just hear the level
that he got to,
544
00:38:38,191 --> 00:38:39,943
all by the age of 25...
545
00:38:40,735 --> 00:38:44,572
You know, he passed when he was
25 years old. That is amazing.
546
00:38:46,449 --> 00:38:49,244
So, yeah, for me,
he is the biggest influence,
547
00:38:49,410 --> 00:38:51,579
as far as trumpet players,
on my plane.
548
00:39:02,048 --> 00:39:03,591
Oh, here is
something interesting.
549
00:39:04,425 --> 00:39:09,013
This is "A Night at Birdland"
with the Art Blakey Quintet
550
00:39:09,138 --> 00:39:11,474
before there was a name,
The Jazz Messengers.
551
00:39:12,976 --> 00:39:15,603
Ladies and gentlemen,
as you know,
552
00:39:15,728 --> 00:39:18,940
we have something special down
here at Bird/and this evening.
553
00:39:19,482 --> 00:39:22,360
A recording
for Blue Note Records.
554
00:39:22,485 --> 00:39:26,155
When you applaud
for the different passages,
555
00:39:26,865 --> 00:39:28,992
your hands go right
on the record there,
556
00:39:29,117 --> 00:39:31,744
so when they play 'em over
and over throughout the country,
557
00:39:31,870 --> 00:39:33,913
you may be some place and say,
558
00:39:34,038 --> 00:39:36,124
"That's my hand
on one of those records...
559
00:39:36,916 --> 00:39:39,210
that I dug down
at Birdland!"
560
00:39:39,711 --> 00:39:44,465
Alfred wanted to do a date
with the Blue Note All-Stars
561
00:39:44,591 --> 00:39:46,259
and that's what
it was supposed to be,
562
00:39:46,426 --> 00:39:50,138
but Art gave Pee Wee
a couple of dollars and said,
563
00:39:50,305 --> 00:39:53,433
"When you make the announcement,
say 'Art Blakey's Band'."
564
00:39:54,642 --> 00:39:56,019
You listen to the record.
565
00:39:56,144 --> 00:39:58,980
We're bringing back to the
bandstand, ladies and gentlemen,
566
00:39:59,147 --> 00:40:01,399
the great Art Blakey
and his wonderful group,
567
00:40:01,524 --> 00:40:04,652
featuring the new trumpet
sensation, Clifford Brown,
568
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,531
Horace Silver on piano,
Lou Donaldson on alto,
569
00:40:09,407 --> 00:40:11,284
Curly Russell is on bass.
570
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,662
Let's get together and bring
Art Blakey to the bandstand
571
00:40:14,829 --> 00:40:16,247
with a great big round
of applause.
572
00:40:16,414 --> 00:40:19,000
We got on Alfred about it,
but Alfred didn't care
573
00:40:19,167 --> 00:40:21,836
because he saw he was gonna
make a lot of money.
574
00:40:22,420 --> 00:40:24,964
Because, you know, that
Clifford Brown was sensational
575
00:40:25,089 --> 00:40:26,549
and he didn't rock the boat.
576
00:40:26,716 --> 00:40:29,052
He let it go like that
and that's how it ended up.
577
00:40:29,218 --> 00:40:33,389
How about a big hand now?
For Art Blakey! Thank y'all!
578
00:40:35,391 --> 00:40:38,269
That's one of my earliest
memories of jazz,
579
00:40:38,394 --> 00:40:41,189
that introduction.
"Art Blakey!", you know?
580
00:40:41,773 --> 00:40:44,776
That was like, "Man,
I want them to say my name."
581
00:40:44,901 --> 00:40:45,902
You know what I mean?
582
00:41:01,250 --> 00:41:04,045
Picking up that record was
pretty important for me,
583
00:41:04,212 --> 00:41:08,549
in realising that that hard bop
or that sound they were creating
584
00:41:08,675 --> 00:41:09,676
it was a new sound.
585
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,252
Art Blakey took the name
The Jazz Messengers
586
00:41:44,419 --> 00:41:47,213
and Horace Silver went on
to develop his own quintet.
587
00:41:47,797 --> 00:41:51,009
Both institutions went on
to discover new talent
588
00:41:51,134 --> 00:41:52,593
for the next 30 years.
589
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,555
And that style became known
as the Blue Note sound
590
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:57,807
because it was introduced
on Blue Note Records.
591
00:41:58,433 --> 00:42:00,268
It broke the rules of bebop,
592
00:42:00,393 --> 00:42:01,936
which was supposed
to break the rules
593
00:42:02,103 --> 00:42:03,438
of whatever came before that.
594
00:42:03,938 --> 00:42:06,691
Horace Silver's playing
all this crazy, funky stuff
595
00:42:06,816 --> 00:42:08,317
that you weren't allowed
to play,
596
00:42:08,484 --> 00:42:10,403
and Art Blakey's throwing in
back beats
597
00:42:10,570 --> 00:42:12,530
that you're not supposed
to play in bebop
598
00:42:13,072 --> 00:42:15,116
and they created something
brand-new there.
599
00:42:15,575 --> 00:42:19,037
They labelled it hard bop, but
it changed the face of music.
600
00:42:19,912 --> 00:42:23,791
We listen to it now, it doesn't
sound quite as revolutionary
601
00:42:23,958 --> 00:42:25,960
because it's become such a part
602
00:42:26,127 --> 00:42:28,296
of the common vocabulary
of musicians,
603
00:42:28,421 --> 00:42:31,758
but at the time,
it was very radical.
604
00:42:32,300 --> 00:42:35,636
Art Blakey was
a university to himself
605
00:42:35,803 --> 00:42:39,974
and a lot of the musicians
that came through his band
606
00:42:40,099 --> 00:42:42,101
actually became leaders.
607
00:42:42,518 --> 00:42:45,396
He was a leader
who trained leaders.
608
00:42:46,355 --> 00:42:48,858
They were fantastic musicians.
609
00:42:49,025 --> 00:42:50,985
They were gentlemen,
610
00:42:51,652 --> 00:42:54,238
they didn't believe in getting
on stage with their anger.
611
00:42:55,156 --> 00:42:57,200
Forget about that. We play.
612
00:42:58,284 --> 00:43:00,453
All my life,
I have been a band leader.
613
00:43:00,578 --> 00:43:02,121
I never wanted to be the leader.
614
00:43:02,288 --> 00:43:04,832
I always wanted to be a good
sideman and have no headaches,
615
00:43:04,999 --> 00:43:06,918
but I was always put
into that position
616
00:43:07,543 --> 00:43:11,005
because I was older than the
rest of the fellas, not in age,
617
00:43:11,130 --> 00:43:13,674
but I had more experience
in life than they did.
618
00:43:14,467 --> 00:43:17,095
When I was 13, I was
in the coal mines, working.
619
00:43:17,220 --> 00:43:19,514
I was already a man, you see.
620
00:43:20,223 --> 00:43:21,933
Were you self-taught on drums?
621
00:43:22,058 --> 00:43:23,768
Oh, I was self-taught
on everything.
622
00:43:24,352 --> 00:43:27,230
And I think there's no secret
or nothin' about what I do.
623
00:43:27,355 --> 00:43:29,941
It's just the idea of listening
to the rest of the musicians
624
00:43:30,108 --> 00:43:31,984
and being part of the group.
625
00:43:36,197 --> 00:43:37,281
Thank you very much.
626
00:43:37,406 --> 00:43:39,867
At this time, we'd like to
feature our leader, Art Blakey.
627
00:44:01,305 --> 00:44:04,892
Art Blakey,
he had an incredible command
628
00:44:05,768 --> 00:44:08,229
of whatever ensemble
he was playing in.
629
00:44:09,438 --> 00:44:12,733
He really leads the band
into the next section
630
00:44:13,651 --> 00:44:16,237
very naturally
and very powerfully.
631
00:44:26,581 --> 00:44:28,457
At this time,
we'd like to do a tune
632
00:44:28,583 --> 00:44:32,211
composed and arranged
by our pianist, Bobby Timmons.
633
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:34,755
It's a little thing
we recorded on...
634
00:44:34,881 --> 00:44:36,174
Can I say it now?
635
00:44:36,299 --> 00:44:37,425
Blue Note.
636
00:44:39,343 --> 00:44:40,469
Blue Note Records.
637
00:44:43,598 --> 00:44:46,058
We sincerely hope
you all buy these records.
638
00:44:46,184 --> 00:44:47,894
God knows we need the money.
639
00:45:37,068 --> 00:45:39,904
Art would call Alfred for money.
640
00:45:40,196 --> 00:45:41,697
And Alfred would send him money.
641
00:45:42,281 --> 00:45:44,242
In fact, he told Alfred
one time,
642
00:45:44,825 --> 00:45:47,578
and he had both of us
fell on the floor laughing,
643
00:45:47,703 --> 00:45:50,665
because he said he was
on his way to the airport
644
00:45:51,499 --> 00:45:53,251
and somebody mugged him.
645
00:45:55,002 --> 00:45:57,129
And Alfred said,
646
00:45:58,339 --> 00:46:01,259
"I don't believe...
I don't believe that story
647
00:46:01,384 --> 00:46:05,680
because if I'd try to mug Art
and I saw him, I'd stop!"
648
00:46:08,432 --> 00:46:09,850
My band and I'm gonna run it.
649
00:46:09,976 --> 00:46:11,686
I didn't say anything
about the tune.
650
00:46:11,852 --> 00:46:13,562
I just said we should make
it once more.
651
00:46:13,688 --> 00:46:15,773
You know damn well
I'll make it 20 more times
652
00:46:15,940 --> 00:46:19,527
if you Want me to, Alfred, but
don't come out and just' say no.
653
00:46:20,152 --> 00:46:23,114
Take it down a little slower.
Just a little slower, Art.
654
00:46:24,532 --> 00:46:25,574
Take 10.
655
00:46:28,786 --> 00:46:31,831
At the tenor saxophone,
the new star, Wayne Shorter.
656
00:46:34,375 --> 00:46:37,211
Wayne Shorter
proved to be something else.
657
00:46:37,336 --> 00:46:38,796
He's such a fantastic...
658
00:46:38,963 --> 00:46:42,049
He's one of the few musicians
that has three degrees in music.
659
00:46:42,216 --> 00:46:45,219
One of the few.
And he has so much knowledge
660
00:46:45,386 --> 00:46:47,722
and We had to bring him out
as a tenor player,
661
00:46:47,847 --> 00:46:50,725
just to come out and play
his horn and play what he knew
662
00:46:50,891 --> 00:46:52,518
because he's very shy.
663
00:46:53,269 --> 00:46:55,604
And he was a fantastic writer.
664
00:46:56,897 --> 00:46:59,066
And I made Wayne
the musical director,
665
00:46:59,191 --> 00:47:02,236
which brought his personality,
gave him more self-assurance.
666
00:47:03,946 --> 00:47:05,156
Art Blakey used to say,
667
00:47:05,281 --> 00:47:08,326
"You can't hide
behind your instrument."
668
00:47:13,331 --> 00:47:15,249
You want Wayne to lead it off
or something?
669
00:47:15,416 --> 00:47:16,917
23. Take 23.
670
00:47:17,084 --> 00:47:21,172
When we were in the studio
at that time, in the '60s,
671
00:47:21,714 --> 00:47:25,092
we questioned whether or not
what we were doing
672
00:47:25,634 --> 00:47:27,511
would be heard.
673
00:47:27,636 --> 00:47:31,265
What effect would it have
20 years from then?
674
00:47:31,432 --> 00:47:33,559
Will it do anything
in the world?
675
00:47:33,684 --> 00:47:36,187
Will it create
some kind of value?
676
00:47:36,854 --> 00:47:39,440
The kind of value
you can't put a price on.
677
00:47:41,108 --> 00:47:43,778
Cos we were not in the business
of making hit records,
678
00:47:44,445 --> 00:47:45,446
and hit music.
679
00:47:52,036 --> 00:47:52,995
Take 23.
680
00:47:53,162 --> 00:47:57,458
We had no thought
of competing with...
681
00:47:57,625 --> 00:47:59,418
They call it business.
682
00:48:00,419 --> 00:48:01,921
The music business.
683
00:48:40,543 --> 00:48:43,796
If I really am experiencing
something difficult,
684
00:48:43,921 --> 00:48:48,300
I'll put on "Speak No Evil" and
that's as good as meditation.
685
00:48:48,467 --> 00:48:49,844
It is like meditation.
686
00:48:51,929 --> 00:48:55,433
A neurologist would probably not
be able to find the difference
687
00:48:55,558 --> 00:48:58,853
between meditation
and focusing on "Speak No Evil".
688
00:48:59,812 --> 00:49:02,815
And I always feel better,
always feel refreshed,
689
00:49:02,940 --> 00:49:04,316
always remember who I am.
690
00:49:04,483 --> 00:49:08,696
That's a pretty amazing service
to provide for people.
691
00:49:10,781 --> 00:49:12,700
It's such a classic record
for me,
692
00:49:12,825 --> 00:49:14,201
all the players on that album.
693
00:49:14,368 --> 00:49:16,745
When you add that with
the compositions and everything,
694
00:49:16,912 --> 00:49:20,332
it's just so sad and
I feel like it's pouring out.
695
00:49:24,295 --> 00:49:26,297
It's so beautiful
and thoughtful.
696
00:49:26,422 --> 00:49:29,049
It's thought out, but not
thought out at the same time.
697
00:49:29,216 --> 00:49:31,886
It's so many things.
Sometimes you can't explain it.
698
00:49:32,052 --> 00:49:33,596
That's what music is for.
699
00:49:33,762 --> 00:49:36,682
You can't say it,
so you just hear it.
700
00:49:37,892 --> 00:49:38,893
Hey, Wayne.
701
00:49:39,602 --> 00:49:41,145
- Hey, Wayne.
- Yeah?
702
00:49:41,812 --> 00:49:43,564
Who's this?
703
00:49:45,983 --> 00:49:47,485
That's Frank Wolff!
704
00:49:51,989 --> 00:49:54,658
Yeah. If you played
and Frank was dancing,
705
00:49:54,783 --> 00:49:57,328
- that was the take.
- Is that right?
706
00:49:57,495 --> 00:49:59,497
If he wasn't dancing,
that was not the take.
707
00:49:59,663 --> 00:50:01,665
- And he danced like that?
- That's what he did.
708
00:50:01,790 --> 00:50:03,209
It was kind of a little shuffle.
709
00:50:03,375 --> 00:50:04,668
No matter where
the beat was.
710
00:50:04,835 --> 00:50:07,087
No, it had nothing
to do with the beat!
711
00:50:13,010 --> 00:50:14,386
- How you doing, man?
- I'm good.
712
00:50:14,512 --> 00:50:16,013
Herbie and Wayne are just so...
713
00:50:16,138 --> 00:50:18,766
They ha ve
such a basic chemistry together.
714
00:50:18,933 --> 00:50:21,227
I love hearing them,
those guys together.
715
00:50:21,769 --> 00:50:23,354
Good to see you, man.
716
00:50:24,355 --> 00:50:26,607
Wayne's actually
my favourite jazz composer.
717
00:50:26,774 --> 00:50:28,567
I love his compositions.
718
00:50:30,694 --> 00:50:36,867
Wayne has a really dark, eerie,
melodic, beautiful sound
719
00:50:36,992 --> 00:50:41,080
that, before Wayne,
I never heard it in jazz before.
720
00:50:42,373 --> 00:50:46,293
It's just a certain mood that
when you meet him, you get it.
721
00:50:46,877 --> 00:50:48,629
The reflection of him
is the music.
722
00:50:50,548 --> 00:50:52,424
What tunes we're doing?
723
00:50:52,550 --> 00:50:54,927
I brought a sketch
of "Masqualero".
724
00:50:55,052 --> 00:50:56,470
- Oh, you did?
- I heard you say it.
725
00:50:56,637 --> 00:50:57,638
Yeah, yeah, good.
726
00:50:57,805 --> 00:51:00,224
It's just what it is.
Two lines and then go for it.
727
00:51:00,349 --> 00:51:01,725
Let's do that. Yeah, great.
728
00:51:01,892 --> 00:51:04,478
The song's called "Masqualero".
729
00:51:04,979 --> 00:51:08,482
The name Masqualero
always intrigued me.
730
00:51:09,191 --> 00:51:11,151
The Native American tribes
731
00:51:11,318 --> 00:51:14,280
around the south-west
of the United States,
732
00:51:14,405 --> 00:51:19,618
the Apache, they had really
elaborate, mysterious masks.
733
00:51:20,244 --> 00:51:22,246
They seemed to come
out of nowhere
734
00:51:22,371 --> 00:51:24,915
and then recede into nowhere
735
00:51:25,082 --> 00:51:27,960
when they were defending their
land or something like that.
736
00:51:28,669 --> 00:51:29,670
So...
737
00:51:30,588 --> 00:51:33,340
The actual bass line
738
00:51:34,091 --> 00:51:36,677
was written to create
some kind of mystery
739
00:51:37,678 --> 00:51:39,763
and then the melody
even more mystery.
740
00:51:41,265 --> 00:51:43,726
It's just my way
of shining some light
741
00:51:43,851 --> 00:51:46,478
on something that really
happened in American history,
742
00:51:46,937 --> 00:51:49,106
with interaction between people,
743
00:51:50,149 --> 00:51:53,444
the Masqualero tribe, and things
that we didn't understand
744
00:51:53,569 --> 00:51:56,113
about them and ourselves.
745
00:51:57,031 --> 00:51:59,700
- Should we try one?
- Yeah. How are y'all doing?
746
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:01,910
Good!
747
00:54:06,243 --> 00:54:09,413
You have to listen
very carefully, very close.
748
00:54:13,125 --> 00:54:16,253
I have Derrick Hodge next to me.
749
00:54:17,045 --> 00:54:18,297
I have Kendrick there.
750
00:54:19,423 --> 00:54:23,135
You know, I have Herbie far
away, but I hear him on the...
751
00:54:23,260 --> 00:54:25,679
So I'm reacting to the moment.
752
00:54:29,266 --> 00:54:30,684
So I have no idea
753
00:54:30,851 --> 00:54:32,978
how I'm gonna start,
how I'm gonna finish this.
754
00:54:33,437 --> 00:54:34,438
Completely open.
755
00:54:40,986 --> 00:54:42,821
I think that's the beauty
of this music.
756
00:54:43,614 --> 00:54:45,699
Getting in the unknown zone.
757
00:55:01,715 --> 00:55:04,092
The feeling that I get
when I'm really improvising
758
00:55:04,218 --> 00:55:06,845
with other people who are
really improvising is a feeling
759
00:55:06,970 --> 00:55:08,514
that I don't get anywhere else.
760
00:55:10,474 --> 00:55:13,352
It's something that always feels
like it's a step
761
00:55:13,477 --> 00:55:15,020
or a half-step away from me.
762
00:55:16,897 --> 00:55:18,941
I don't know
if you ever achieve it.
763
00:55:21,151 --> 00:55:23,654
It's transcendent.
It's just like I'm not there.
764
00:55:27,324 --> 00:55:30,828
But I know
that you get closer to it
765
00:55:30,953 --> 00:55:33,831
by not living in the past
or the future.
766
00:55:33,997 --> 00:55:36,792
Just sort of submitting
to the now.
767
00:56:08,115 --> 00:56:10,617
It takes some kind of courage
and fearlessness,
768
00:56:10,784 --> 00:56:14,371
and the courage to be vulnerable
is a challenge.
769
00:56:14,496 --> 00:56:17,457
To summon courage
is a challenge itself.
770
00:56:17,624 --> 00:56:19,543
- It's always daunting.
- Yeah.
771
00:56:20,460 --> 00:56:22,921
But the more
you challenge yourself
772
00:56:23,714 --> 00:56:25,215
to muster up the courage,
773
00:56:25,674 --> 00:56:29,511
the more this uncertainty
becomes your ally.
774
00:57:23,106 --> 00:57:25,192
That was deep. Beautiful.
775
00:57:25,317 --> 00:57:26,944
We did two takes of "Masqualero"
776
00:57:27,110 --> 00:57:29,947
and we didn't add anything,
we didn't subtract anything.
777
00:57:30,113 --> 00:57:32,366
It's exactly as it went down
in the room.
778
00:57:33,909 --> 00:57:36,161
Art Blakey said...
779
00:57:36,828 --> 00:57:38,705
"Don't be getting fresh
with me!"
780
00:57:41,833 --> 00:57:46,964
I saw how each individual
relinquished the leadership
781
00:57:47,089 --> 00:57:50,842
and being in a band situation
with Herbie Hancock
782
00:57:51,009 --> 00:57:54,972
and Wayne Shorter, I immediately
want to relinquish it to them,
783
00:57:55,097 --> 00:57:56,974
but they're waiting
for me to do something.
784
00:57:58,141 --> 00:58:00,560
They want to see
what you have to offer
785
00:58:00,727 --> 00:58:04,022
and to frame that picture
for you.
786
00:58:06,483 --> 00:58:09,236
Which is something that's
very important in a jazz group,
787
00:58:09,361 --> 00:58:11,279
that everybody has a voice.
788
00:58:14,574 --> 00:58:16,618
And in that
you have to be courageous
789
00:58:16,743 --> 00:58:19,997
and find whatever turns you on
in the moment.
790
00:58:23,083 --> 00:58:24,751
I learn a lot from Herbie.
791
00:58:24,918 --> 00:58:30,215
He's one of the musicians
who is always supporting
792
00:58:31,425 --> 00:58:33,135
the moments, you know.
793
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:37,764
If you're making a mistake,
he will fix it in a second.
794
00:58:38,515 --> 00:58:42,728
And he won't even raise his head
to look at you.
795
00:58:43,937 --> 00:58:46,606
So he's just into the music
796
00:58:46,732 --> 00:58:50,152
and it's very easy
because, whatever you do,
797
00:58:50,318 --> 00:58:52,863
he will be supporting you
the best way.
798
00:58:54,031 --> 00:58:55,782
And it's very hard, too,
799
00:58:55,907 --> 00:58:59,453
because on the paper
if says C Major 7
800
00:58:59,619 --> 00:59:01,788
and Herbie plays something else.
801
00:59:03,957 --> 00:59:05,459
He's beyond the notes.
802
00:59:05,959 --> 00:59:07,461
Like, you know,
803
00:59:07,627 --> 00:59:10,797
how we musicians think
about the notes we're playing.
804
00:59:13,592 --> 00:59:15,260
He's definitely beyond that.
805
00:59:22,142 --> 00:59:24,102
It all comes down
to managing the ego
806
00:59:25,437 --> 00:59:30,525
in a way that allows the music
to really, really come out.
807
00:59:33,361 --> 00:59:36,323
People like Wayne Shorter
or Herbie Hancock,
808
00:59:36,448 --> 00:59:39,493
they can allow the music
to flow through, you know.
809
00:59:39,659 --> 00:59:41,578
It feels a little bit deeper.
810
00:59:44,998 --> 00:59:48,668
I mean, like they work on their
humanity as well as their music.
811
00:59:55,092 --> 00:59:56,176
That's the one.
812
00:59:58,303 --> 01:00:00,055
The second one is hijacked
by the first one.
813
01:00:00,931 --> 01:00:03,475
I mean, the second one is like
an alternate story.
814
01:00:03,892 --> 01:00:06,103
But the second one is like
the guy who says,
815
01:00:06,228 --> 01:00:08,396
"I wanna be the second guy
to go to Mars!"
816
01:00:15,153 --> 01:00:18,657
This idea of collaboration
that we have is
817
01:00:18,782 --> 01:00:21,952
the personal expression of what
the music really is about.
818
01:00:22,077 --> 01:00:27,040
Anyway, it's about collaboration
and freedom.
819
01:00:39,427 --> 01:00:41,179
Miles, he asked me
one time, he said,
820
01:00:41,304 --> 01:00:44,891
"Do you ever get tired
of playing music
821
01:00:45,559 --> 01:00:47,394
that sounds like music?"
822
01:00:50,564 --> 01:00:54,734
And then he said, "Do you ever
feel like you wanna play
823
01:00:55,735 --> 01:00:58,238
as if you don't know
how to play?"
824
01:00:58,738 --> 01:01:02,200
Play your instrument, play.
He's getting at something.
825
01:01:10,584 --> 01:01:14,963
Miles himself taught me
something by his behaviour.
826
01:01:16,673 --> 01:01:17,674
What happened was
827
01:01:18,091 --> 01:01:21,094
in '64, '65,
828
01:01:21,219 --> 01:01:23,263
this particular night was like
829
01:01:23,430 --> 01:01:25,265
the night where
everything was working
830
01:01:25,432 --> 01:01:28,101
and we got to a place
in the music
831
01:01:28,268 --> 01:01:32,147
where the flow was happening
and the music was just peaking
832
01:01:32,272 --> 01:01:34,441
and it was during Miles' solo
833
01:01:35,525 --> 01:01:38,820
and at the high point
I played this chord that was...
834
01:01:40,780 --> 01:01:42,115
It was so wrong.
835
01:01:42,616 --> 01:01:43,783
It was so wrong!
836
01:01:43,950 --> 01:01:47,621
And I just felt like I had
destroyed everything, right?
837
01:01:49,289 --> 01:01:50,874
And Miles took a breath
838
01:01:52,125 --> 01:01:54,127
and then he played some notes
839
01:01:55,962 --> 01:01:58,131
that actually
made my chord right.
840
01:02:00,467 --> 01:02:02,594
How do you do that? You know?
841
01:02:04,888 --> 01:02:07,432
I was ready to crawl
under the floor,
842
01:02:07,891 --> 01:02:11,019
but the difference was that
I had judged what I had done.
843
01:02:11,144 --> 01:02:13,396
Miles didn't judge what I did.
844
01:02:13,980 --> 01:02:17,317
He heard it and heard it
as a part of the music.
845
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:25,075
Oh, like something new
that came into the music.
846
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:27,369
And he found something
that worked.
847
01:02:28,161 --> 01:02:30,372
You know,
so it taught me a lesson
848
01:02:30,497 --> 01:02:34,918
that I've tried my best
to not only maintain,
849
01:02:35,835 --> 01:02:38,672
but to utilise, you know?
850
01:02:39,923 --> 01:02:45,345
The idea of being non-judgmental
is such an important virtue
851
01:02:45,470 --> 01:02:49,349
for creating value
in so many different ways.
852
01:02:52,602 --> 01:02:56,314
It was a lesson that came from
the life of Miles Davis
853
01:02:56,439 --> 01:02:59,484
and the life of that group,
and life in that moment.
854
01:03:10,495 --> 01:03:13,498
When Herbie Hancock and
Wayne Shorter were on the label,
855
01:03:13,623 --> 01:03:15,208
they were making these records
856
01:03:15,375 --> 01:03:17,627
based around the kind
of modal experiments
857
01:03:17,752 --> 01:03:20,714
that they were conducting
in the Miles Davis Group.
858
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:22,090
That changed everything.
859
01:03:22,257 --> 01:03:23,967
That changed
how you voiced chords,
860
01:03:24,134 --> 01:03:25,760
what you based your solos
around.
861
01:03:25,927 --> 01:03:27,887
The thing that attracts me
to a musician
862
01:03:28,054 --> 01:03:29,723
is the fact
that they're an artist.
863
01:03:30,807 --> 01:03:33,059
It's the changing,
it's the evolution.
864
01:03:33,184 --> 01:03:35,687
It's the willingness to throw
everything out the window
865
01:03:35,812 --> 01:03:37,063
in search of something new.
866
01:03:37,230 --> 01:03:38,898
Take 27.
867
01:03:39,274 --> 01:03:40,984
Take 27.
868
01:03:41,109 --> 01:03:43,486
And musicians on Blue Note
specifically,
869
01:03:43,653 --> 01:03:45,613
you can see
that there was a direction.
870
01:03:45,780 --> 01:03:48,283
You know, there was a goal,
there was a quest.
871
01:03:48,450 --> 01:03:50,618
I didn't need it, but they keep
telling me it's 27.
872
01:03:50,744 --> 01:03:54,289
They're also artists who are on
the same mission that you're on.
873
01:03:54,456 --> 01:03:56,666
- Take 27.
- Merry Christmas.
874
01:03:56,833 --> 01:03:58,877
I take from each
of those artists
875
01:03:59,044 --> 01:04:02,339
and I see how they affected
the world at large
876
01:04:02,464 --> 01:04:04,341
through their social
consciousness.
877
01:04:16,686 --> 01:04:19,189
You listen to "Free For All"
by Art Blakey.
878
01:04:19,314 --> 01:04:21,399
That's about more
than musical freedom.
879
01:04:34,287 --> 01:04:36,831
It's an anthem
for the Civil Rights Movement.
880
01:04:36,956 --> 01:04:40,835
That album was recorded
right between the march on Selma
881
01:04:41,002 --> 01:04:43,129
and the passage
of the Civil Rights Bill.
882
01:04:51,137 --> 01:04:52,722
They're dealing
with segregation.
883
01:04:52,847 --> 01:04:54,891
They're dealing
with just overt racism,
884
01:04:55,683 --> 01:04:57,268
so, yeah, the music is political
885
01:04:57,394 --> 01:04:59,354
because the times here
in the United States
886
01:04:59,479 --> 01:05:02,273
during the '50s and '60s
were politically charged.
887
01:05:06,820 --> 01:05:09,322
Never at a point
do I hear the music
888
01:05:09,447 --> 01:05:11,783
and hear them being defeated.
889
01:05:14,619 --> 01:05:17,664
Somehow, regardless
of what they were fighting with,
890
01:05:17,789 --> 01:05:21,584
they're going down in history
creating something
891
01:05:21,709 --> 01:05:24,504
that influenced my life
in a way where I felt freedom,
892
01:05:24,921 --> 01:05:26,089
where it brought me joy,
893
01:05:26,214 --> 01:05:29,676
where it made me wanna write
music that gave people hope.
894
01:05:40,854 --> 01:05:44,107
So I call 'em heroes
cos when you hear these records,
895
01:05:44,232 --> 01:05:46,484
you feel what they strived for,
896
01:05:46,651 --> 01:05:48,695
what they were fighting
to hopefully get to.
897
01:05:49,446 --> 01:05:51,030
I mean, that's amazing.
898
01:06:26,065 --> 01:06:28,610
This is Lee Morgan's
comeback album on Blue Note,
899
01:06:28,735 --> 01:06:29,736
"The Sidewinder".
900
01:06:30,612 --> 01:06:33,406
Joe Henderson, Barry Harris,
Billy Higgins
901
01:06:33,531 --> 01:06:35,283
and Bob Cranshaw on bass.
902
01:06:35,450 --> 01:06:37,076
You know, as you can see,
903
01:06:37,243 --> 01:06:39,913
there is a lot of false starts
904
01:06:40,079 --> 01:06:41,748
before they really got it
together.
905
01:06:42,332 --> 01:06:44,584
The first complete take
was Take 25
906
01:06:44,709 --> 01:06:47,253
and as Alfred noted,
it was good.
907
01:06:47,420 --> 01:06:49,255
And that became the take.
908
01:06:50,215 --> 01:06:51,382
In 1966,
909
01:06:51,508 --> 01:06:55,762
Blue Note accidentally had two
very big, successful records.
910
01:06:56,179 --> 01:06:58,598
The first one was Lee Morgan,
"The Sidewinder",
911
01:06:58,765 --> 01:07:01,434
and the second one a year later
was Horace Silver,
912
01:07:01,601 --> 01:07:02,894
"Song For My Father".
913
01:07:28,127 --> 01:07:30,255
Those records got
on the pop charts.
914
01:07:30,380 --> 01:07:33,049
They sold tens of thousands
of copies.
915
01:07:34,133 --> 01:07:35,969
And they came
completely unexpected.
916
01:07:36,135 --> 01:07:40,056
Alfred had no idea and they ran
out of records within 48 hours.
917
01:07:48,314 --> 01:07:51,859
And once they had two very big,
successful records,
918
01:07:51,985 --> 01:07:54,654
a problematic economics
came into play.
919
01:07:55,363 --> 01:07:58,366
Distributors were pressing them
to deliver more hits.
920
01:07:59,158 --> 01:08:01,869
Alfred just wanted to keep
producing Blue Note records
921
01:08:01,995 --> 01:08:03,580
as usual, not worry about a hit,
922
01:08:03,705 --> 01:08:07,333
so the distributors started
to slow down paying the label.
923
01:08:08,001 --> 01:08:10,461
And that was a forced incentive
for distributors
924
01:08:10,587 --> 01:08:12,839
to pressure the label
to give them more hits.
925
01:08:13,840 --> 01:08:17,051
And so there was a major,
major cash flow problem.
926
01:08:17,468 --> 01:08:20,179
Alfred and Frank felt
that they needed to sell
927
01:08:20,305 --> 01:08:23,433
to a larger label
with more financial resources.
928
01:08:32,317 --> 01:08:34,277
The new people
that bought the company,
929
01:08:34,694 --> 01:08:36,779
all they wanted
was to sell records.
930
01:08:36,904 --> 01:08:39,866
They weren't interested
in art form,
931
01:08:40,033 --> 01:08:43,870
you know, but they wanted
to compete with other records,
932
01:08:43,995 --> 01:08:47,373
you know, which is hard to do,
playing jazz.
933
01:08:48,041 --> 01:08:51,753
Alfred was having a real rough
time working for somebody else
934
01:08:51,878 --> 01:08:53,880
when he had been working
only for himself.
935
01:08:54,839 --> 01:08:56,841
And he couldn't get used
to all the meetings
936
01:08:56,966 --> 01:08:58,676
and the sales plans
and the budgets
937
01:08:58,843 --> 01:09:00,511
and he just wanted to get out.
938
01:09:01,054 --> 01:09:04,390
And so in the summer of 1967
he left.
939
01:09:05,433 --> 01:09:09,395
And Frank Wolff ran it
until his death in early 1971.
940
01:09:10,063 --> 01:09:14,692
Then Blue Note stopped recording
most straight-ahead jazz.
941
01:09:15,568 --> 01:09:20,615
Jazz in the '50s and in the '60s
used to tell the stories
942
01:09:20,740 --> 01:09:22,408
of the inner cities.
943
01:09:22,825 --> 01:09:25,536
Then there was a time after that
that it stopped doing that.
944
01:09:26,454 --> 01:09:29,082
And then hip hop in the '80s
came around
945
01:09:29,248 --> 01:09:31,292
and that was the thing
that told the stories
946
01:09:31,417 --> 01:09:33,127
of the inner cities
all of a sudden.
947
01:09:33,753 --> 01:09:35,004
When I was a kid,
948
01:09:35,129 --> 01:09:37,048
the ghettos weren't
used to seeing motherfuckers
949
01:09:37,173 --> 01:09:38,591
with instruments no more.
950
01:09:38,758 --> 01:09:41,260
Cos at that point they killed
all the music programmes
951
01:09:41,427 --> 01:09:42,637
from the school.
952
01:09:43,221 --> 01:09:44,472
So there was no instruments.
953
01:09:44,597 --> 01:09:46,933
I think that's what made
gangbanging turn up in LA
954
01:09:47,100 --> 01:09:48,309
a whole bunch in the '80s.
955
01:09:48,810 --> 01:09:51,771
Cos the kids had nothing to do,
no more after-school programmes.
956
01:09:52,230 --> 01:09:55,441
No more band teachers,
so gangbanging turning up...
957
01:09:56,693 --> 01:09:59,320
self-hate turning up,
murder rate turning up,
958
01:09:59,445 --> 01:10:00,780
crack turning up.
959
01:10:01,656 --> 01:10:04,534
All that was left was
the records, the albums
960
01:10:04,659 --> 01:10:06,160
and turntables.
961
01:10:06,285 --> 01:10:07,412
No instruments.
962
01:10:07,995 --> 01:10:10,373
Motherfuckers took records,
turntables
963
01:10:10,498 --> 01:10:13,126
and went to the South Bronx
and parks and got down.
964
01:10:22,468 --> 01:10:25,054
I started making music
around 1985.
965
01:10:25,513 --> 01:10:30,601
And at that time, hip hop
was still this new, fresh sound.
966
01:10:36,357 --> 01:10:38,317
One thing most people
could find in their homes
967
01:10:38,443 --> 01:10:39,318
was a record player.
968
01:10:39,777 --> 01:10:40,987
And if you had a record player,
969
01:10:41,112 --> 01:10:42,989
chances are your neighbour
had a record player,
970
01:10:43,114 --> 01:10:44,699
so you put two of them together
971
01:10:44,824 --> 01:10:47,493
and it's definitely
the birthplace of hip hop.
972
01:10:47,869 --> 01:10:50,663
That communal need
to get together, to understand,
973
01:10:50,788 --> 01:10:53,833
to express, finding records
and looking for that breakbeat.
974
01:10:54,333 --> 01:10:56,169
Something that your rapper
could go on.
975
01:10:58,671 --> 01:11:01,841
Something that you can backspin
back and forth
976
01:11:02,425 --> 01:11:04,010
and just let the beat rock.
977
01:11:12,769 --> 01:11:14,479
Lee Morgan, "Abs0lutions",
978
01:11:14,604 --> 01:11:16,856
it starts off with a bassline
979
01:11:17,023 --> 01:11:18,983
that you can just snatch
as a groove.
980
01:11:21,736 --> 01:11:23,780
I fell in love with jazz
through hip hop.
981
01:11:24,197 --> 01:11:26,032
And that was through
Tribe Called Quest.
982
01:11:26,157 --> 01:11:28,743
I started wanting to understand
and wanting to learn.
983
01:11:28,910 --> 01:11:30,870
"What is this?"
Herbie record. Barn!
984
01:11:31,037 --> 01:11:33,915
Ron Carter records. Barn!
Lenny White records. Barn!
985
01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:36,209
Through them records,
you find other musicians.
986
01:11:42,006 --> 01:11:44,217
Blue Note Records
became the go-to.
987
01:11:48,679 --> 01:11:50,014
What we were discovering
988
01:11:50,139 --> 01:11:54,268
is that the jazz records had
a lot of open break sections,
989
01:11:54,435 --> 01:11:55,603
a lot of solo sections.
990
01:11:56,229 --> 01:11:58,314
And not only for the drummer,
991
01:11:58,439 --> 01:12:00,316
but for all of the players.
992
01:12:00,733 --> 01:12:02,318
They had their moments
and I think
993
01:12:02,443 --> 01:12:05,071
that was the beauty
of discovering jazz.
994
01:12:06,280 --> 01:12:08,407
Once they had the swing in it
and the beat in it,
995
01:12:08,533 --> 01:12:10,076
they liked it
and they sampled it.
996
01:12:10,701 --> 01:12:13,955
I found out
by looking at my royalties.
997
01:12:15,039 --> 01:12:18,084
Lou Donaldson is an architect
for hip hop.
998
01:12:39,188 --> 01:12:42,942
Idris Muhammad was a part
of a lot of people's personnel
999
01:12:43,442 --> 01:12:47,154
and so his sound
is all over hip hop.
1000
01:12:48,614 --> 01:12:50,157
There are certain musicians
1001
01:12:50,283 --> 01:12:52,285
who are just the backbone
of hip hop.
1002
01:12:53,661 --> 01:12:56,539
Grant Green is another one,
you know, bluesy,
1003
01:12:57,039 --> 01:12:59,292
soulful, energetic,
1004
01:12:59,458 --> 01:13:02,670
who also recorded
with a lot of personnel.
1005
01:13:04,797 --> 01:13:08,801
There is so much information
in each player's part.
1006
01:13:10,261 --> 01:13:13,264
In jazz, there's the freedom
to improvise,
1007
01:13:13,389 --> 01:13:17,268
but it's more than just having
your go to solo.
1008
01:13:17,768 --> 01:13:21,147
It's like completely
just letting go.
1009
01:13:22,440 --> 01:13:23,566
Finding a portal...
1010
01:13:24,483 --> 01:13:28,321
that you can transcend
your entire self through it
1011
01:13:28,487 --> 01:13:30,323
with the instrument,
with the sound.
1012
01:13:30,990 --> 01:13:34,577
There's freedom in that
and that's what I get from jazz.
1013
01:14:03,981 --> 01:14:05,691
The Chairman of EMI Records
1014
01:14:05,816 --> 01:14:06,859
asked me
to have dinner with him.
1015
01:14:06,984 --> 01:14:08,194
He said,
"How would you like to start
1016
01:14:08,319 --> 01:14:09,695
Blue Note Records
all over again?
1017
01:14:09,820 --> 01:14:11,197
It's been dormant now
for a number of years.
1018
01:14:11,364 --> 01:14:12,740
Let's start it again.
Would you like to."
1019
01:14:12,865 --> 01:14:14,325
I said, "My favourite label
is Blue Note.
1020
01:14:14,450 --> 01:14:15,868
of course I'd love to do this."
1021
01:14:16,369 --> 01:14:19,080
So we started in July of 1984.
1022
01:14:20,581 --> 01:14:22,917
The other half of my heartbeat
is Michael Cuscuna
1023
01:14:23,042 --> 01:14:24,710
who did this with me right from
the very beginning
1024
01:14:24,877 --> 01:14:25,962
as a consultant.
1025
01:14:26,087 --> 01:14:28,172
This was a completely
different era
1026
01:14:28,297 --> 01:14:31,008
than when Frank Wolff
and Alfred Lion ran it
1027
01:14:31,133 --> 01:14:32,343
as an independent label.
1028
01:14:32,677 --> 01:14:35,304
No longer could you have
just one designer
1029
01:14:35,429 --> 01:14:37,974
and one studio
and one engineer.
1030
01:14:38,140 --> 01:14:41,894
You could not get the continuity
and the cohesion
1031
01:14:42,269 --> 01:14:44,313
that was part
of the original Blue Note.
1032
01:14:47,233 --> 01:14:50,569
So what we really decided to do
was keep in mind the quality
1033
01:14:50,695 --> 01:14:52,279
and the standard
that Alfred Lion
1034
01:14:52,405 --> 01:14:54,031
and Frank Wolff set
for everybody.
1035
01:15:00,079 --> 01:15:01,747
These two guys in the UK
that wanted
1036
01:15:01,914 --> 01:15:03,791
to sample a couple
of Blue Note records.
1037
01:15:03,916 --> 01:15:05,918
They wanted particularly
"Cantaloupe Island"
1038
01:15:06,252 --> 01:15:07,586
by Herbie Hancock.
1039
01:15:08,004 --> 01:15:10,131
First question I asked, "Would
Alfred Lion have done this?"
1040
01:15:10,256 --> 01:15:11,716
I was with Tom Everett,
who was the general manager
1041
01:15:11,882 --> 01:15:13,134
of the label at that time.
1042
01:15:13,300 --> 01:15:15,428
Tom said, "It's got to be
on Blue Note, man. You're crazy.
1043
01:15:15,594 --> 01:15:17,096
Alfred would have done this. ”
1044
01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:24,520
They said, "You're gonna stop us
from putting this out, right?"
1045
01:15:24,645 --> 01:15:26,981
I said, "No, you can sample
the entire Blue Note catalogue.
1046
01:15:27,148 --> 01:15:28,274
Let's make an album."
1047
01:15:28,441 --> 01:15:30,317
They couldn't believe we were
allowing them to do this.
1048
01:15:30,443 --> 01:15:32,695
I said,
"Yeah, let's go and just do it."
1049
01:15:32,862 --> 01:15:34,488
The album sold several
million copies.
1050
01:15:34,613 --> 01:15:35,990
lz' was a very lucky day
for us.
1051
01:15:41,704 --> 01:15:44,123
I received a phone call
from an accountant
1052
01:15:44,248 --> 01:15:46,167
in the royalty
accounting department.
1053
01:15:46,834 --> 01:15:49,712
And I thought maybe
we had an accounting problem,
1054
01:15:49,837 --> 01:15:52,214
a royalty problem,
so I took the call
1055
01:15:52,381 --> 01:15:54,175
and I said,
"Do we have some problems?"
1056
01:15:54,341 --> 01:15:56,969
She said, "No, no. I want you
to hear this young singer,
1057
01:15:57,136 --> 01:15:59,513
a great jazz singer
that I'm involved with."
1058
01:15:59,638 --> 01:16:00,639
I said, "Well, fine."
1059
01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:04,477
On Friday, in comes
this young girl, very shy,
1060
01:16:04,602 --> 01:16:06,437
a dark-haired girl with glasses,
1061
01:16:06,604 --> 01:16:08,939
very pretty, but very, very shy
and very demure.
1062
01:16:09,065 --> 01:16:10,691
I said,
"What's your background?"
1063
01:16:10,858 --> 01:16:12,610
She said,
"I went to North Texas State.
1064
01:16:12,777 --> 01:16:14,653
I was a jazz piano
and voice major
1065
01:16:14,820 --> 01:16:17,740
and I'm in New York now,
doing gigs downtown."
1066
01:16:17,865 --> 01:16:19,992
I said, "Do you have something
I can listen to?"
1067
01:16:20,117 --> 01:16:22,203
She said, "I have a CD
with three songs on it."
1068
01:16:44,683 --> 01:16:46,852
I put it on and I was stunned.
1069
01:16:47,019 --> 01:16:50,106
I think midway through the song
I probably stopped the CD player
1070
01:16:50,231 --> 01:16:51,941
and said,
"Look, I don't get this.
1071
01:16:52,108 --> 01:16:55,361
You're, what, 21, 22 years old
and you're nailing this song!"
1072
01:16:59,323 --> 01:17:01,367
I didn't have to hear it again.
I simply said to her,
1073
01:17:01,492 --> 01:17:04,537
"Look, I want to sign you
to Blue Note Records."
1074
01:17:04,829 --> 01:17:06,330
I knew it was gonna do well.
1075
01:17:06,455 --> 01:17:09,208
I never expected it was gonna
end up Record of the Year.
1076
01:17:09,333 --> 01:17:11,460
She won every one,
every category.
1077
01:17:19,677 --> 01:17:21,929
If you find a real artist,
you're lucky enough,
1078
01:17:22,471 --> 01:17:24,140
you don't ask
marketing questions,
1079
01:17:24,265 --> 01:17:25,891
you don't say,
"Where's the hit single?
1080
01:17:26,016 --> 01:17:28,727
Why isn't this something
that's flavour of the minute?"
1081
01:17:29,728 --> 01:17:32,064
An awful lot of people
in our business look for that,
1082
01:17:32,189 --> 01:17:34,608
want something that sounds
like somebody else on the radio.
1083
01:17:35,109 --> 01:17:36,569
Get someone
that means something,
1084
01:17:36,735 --> 01:17:38,237
not somebody
that's a confection.
1085
01:17:38,362 --> 01:17:39,738
There's too much of that.
1086
01:17:39,864 --> 01:17:43,576
He really made the label happen
again when he brought it back.
1087
01:17:44,243 --> 01:17:48,080
He was very warm and he cared
deeply about his artists.
1088
01:17:48,622 --> 01:17:50,875
The reason I love
being on this label
1089
01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:53,252
is because I've always felt
like I had that freedom
1090
01:17:53,419 --> 01:17:56,255
to make my own music
and do whatever I want.
1091
01:17:56,422 --> 01:18:00,050
And I don't feel confined
by the restrictions
1092
01:18:00,217 --> 01:18:02,511
of the jazz genre.
1093
01:18:03,304 --> 01:18:04,513
Bruce Lundvall signed me.
1094
01:18:04,638 --> 01:18:06,265
Once he signed me,
I went into his office
1095
01:18:06,432 --> 01:18:08,267
with a plan of my album,
what I wanted to do.
1096
01:18:08,434 --> 01:18:09,768
Bruce stopped me and said...
1097
01:18:11,187 --> 01:18:13,856
"Don't worry about that.
You're the artist. Make the art.
1098
01:18:13,981 --> 01:18:15,774
It's our job to sell it.
Do what you do."
1099
01:18:16,358 --> 01:18:17,776
OK, start me from right there.
1100
01:18:18,360 --> 01:18:21,363
We're gonna start from that same
spot. It's, like, four, right?
1101
01:18:21,488 --> 01:18:23,908
I feel like jazz
is starting to reach
1102
01:18:24,074 --> 01:18:25,993
back to the younger audiences
1103
01:18:26,160 --> 01:18:28,454
and I feel like
Rob is a big part of that
1104
01:18:28,621 --> 01:18:32,625
because of his ability
to incorporate hip hop.
1105
01:18:32,958 --> 01:18:34,793
That's appealing
to the younger audience,
1106
01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:37,004
they wouldn't traditionally
listen to jazz.
1107
01:18:37,129 --> 01:18:38,756
'Cause the way
the music comes out
1108
01:18:38,923 --> 01:18:40,716
when he plays it,
it feels hip hop.
1109
01:18:40,883 --> 01:18:44,428
It's jazz sensibilities,
but it's hip hop feeling.
1110
01:18:45,179 --> 01:18:47,723
I was always mixing jazz
and hip hop.
1111
01:18:47,848 --> 01:18:51,477
I was always doing soul music,
R&B, hip hop, jazz.
1112
01:18:51,644 --> 01:18:52,978
And I got to know so many people
1113
01:18:53,145 --> 01:18:54,939
from the other side,
other than just jazz.
1114
01:18:59,652 --> 01:19:01,695
I was like, "I know
all these R&B hip hop cats,
1115
01:19:01,820 --> 01:19:03,197
and I'm always
in the jazz world.
1116
01:19:03,322 --> 01:19:05,282
I want to do an album
to bring that together."
1117
01:19:13,624 --> 01:19:17,086
We do what we can
to reflect our generation
1118
01:19:17,211 --> 01:19:19,338
and the sounds of our generation
1119
01:19:19,505 --> 01:19:22,800
because that's what people under
us coming up can relate to.
1120
01:19:22,967 --> 01:19:23,884
You know?
1121
01:19:24,343 --> 01:19:26,720
Blue Note is the past, present
and the future.
1122
01:19:27,221 --> 01:19:28,514
It's always doing
something different.
1123
01:19:28,639 --> 01:19:30,307
It's always turning on
the next generation
1124
01:19:30,432 --> 01:19:32,142
to something
that could change their life.
1125
01:19:32,768 --> 01:19:35,104
Blue Note and Robert together
broke the doors down
1126
01:19:35,229 --> 01:19:36,188
for what I do.
1127
01:19:37,106 --> 01:19:39,858
A lot of times, the jazz world
is like a secret society
1128
01:19:39,984 --> 01:19:42,736
and the mainstream people
who listen to R&B and hip hop
1129
01:19:42,861 --> 01:19:44,613
don't know what's going on
in the jazz world.
1130
01:19:44,780 --> 01:19:47,157
When We Won that R615 Album
of the Year award,
1131
01:19:47,324 --> 01:19:50,369
that made us visual
to that side of the music,
1132
01:19:50,536 --> 01:19:52,329
therefore making jazz
more visual.
1133
01:19:52,454 --> 01:19:53,872
I'd like to thank Don Was,
1134
01:19:53,998 --> 01:19:56,041
Cem Kurosman and everyone
at Blue Note Records...
1135
01:19:56,166 --> 01:19:59,003
When college kids see that,
that inspires them
1136
01:19:59,169 --> 01:20:01,213
to be themselves
and play their influences.
1137
01:20:01,380 --> 01:20:04,383
I think there's a movement
going on now, a great movement.
1138
01:20:04,550 --> 01:20:06,427
You have all these other bands
coming up
1139
01:20:06,593 --> 01:20:07,970
that are making a lot of noise,
1140
01:20:08,137 --> 01:20:09,888
that come from
a jazz background,
1141
01:20:10,055 --> 01:20:13,058
so as of now, it's pretty damn
cool to be a jazz musician.
1142
01:20:14,893 --> 01:20:17,062
I'm friends with Terrace Martin.
1143
01:20:17,896 --> 01:20:20,566
Terrace Martin and a lot of
LA cats like Kamasi Washington
1144
01:20:20,691 --> 01:20:22,026
and all these guys,
1145
01:20:22,192 --> 01:20:23,902
Thundercat Stephen Bruner,
1146
01:20:24,069 --> 01:20:26,280
I've known them
since we were teenagers.
1147
01:20:26,780 --> 01:20:29,908
Ambrose, that's my homeboy.
He got a bounce with his music.
1148
01:20:30,075 --> 01:20:32,619
You can hear the hip hop
in his writing.
1149
01:20:32,745 --> 01:20:34,955
Hip hop ain't
"boom-cap-boom-cap".
1150
01:20:35,122 --> 01:20:37,416
It's a way of life.
It's a culture.
1151
01:20:37,583 --> 01:20:40,878
Terrace kept calling me. He was
like, "We're doing this thing.
1152
01:20:41,003 --> 01:20:42,546
Man, it's gonna change hip hop."
1153
01:20:42,713 --> 01:20:44,340
I was like,
"Really? Come on, man.
1154
01:20:44,465 --> 01:20:47,176
I'm just gonna stay at home and
practise." He kept calling me.
1155
01:20:47,301 --> 01:20:49,595
Finally, I was like, "OK,
I'm gonna come to the studio."
1156
01:20:49,762 --> 01:20:51,930
As soon as I came, he was like,
"Man, just play him a track."
1157
01:20:52,056 --> 01:20:53,307
I was like, "Wow, OK,
1158
01:20:53,432 --> 01:20:55,559
you guys really are about
to change the game."
1159
01:21:01,440 --> 01:21:03,025
They didn't ask me
to do anything.
1160
01:21:03,692 --> 01:21:05,652
They just turned on the track
and I went in the studio
1161
01:21:05,778 --> 01:21:06,779
and I just played.
1162
01:21:06,904 --> 01:21:09,406
Just like you would do
on a jazz session.
1163
01:21:09,907 --> 01:21:12,076
Robert came in and did
eight songs in one night.
1164
01:21:14,328 --> 01:21:15,579
Ambrose came in...
1165
01:21:16,747 --> 01:21:17,790
One take, done.
1166
01:21:18,999 --> 01:21:21,794
"To Pimp A Butterfly"
is influenced by jazz.
1167
01:21:21,919 --> 01:21:23,337
It's influenced by funk.
1168
01:21:24,004 --> 01:21:25,839
It's influenced by soul music,
1169
01:21:25,964 --> 01:21:28,926
music that comes from the black
communities and the ghetto.
1170
01:21:33,389 --> 01:21:36,308
I was in the studio one day
with my guy Terrace Martin
1171
01:21:36,433 --> 01:21:39,311
and he was like, "IWan, a lot'
of the chords that' you pick
1172
01:21:39,436 --> 01:21:41,146
are jazz-influenced.
1173
01:21:42,231 --> 01:21:44,066
You're a jazz musician
by default. "
1174
01:21:44,191 --> 01:21:46,193
And that's something
that just opened me up.
1175
01:21:47,611 --> 01:21:50,114
Then he just started
breaking down the science of it,
1176
01:21:50,239 --> 01:21:52,658
going back to Miles,
Herbie Hancock.
1177
01:21:52,825 --> 01:21:54,243
"Man, I like that sound.
What is that?
1178
01:21:54,368 --> 01:21:55,869
That's what I've been liking
all these years?"
1179
01:21:56,036 --> 01:21:58,747
"Yeah, you've been liking this
for years. This is your DNA."
1180
01:21:59,581 --> 01:22:02,376
To me, hip hop
is definitely connected to jazz
1181
01:22:02,501 --> 01:22:04,920
in terms of what it does,
its purpose.
1182
01:22:05,629 --> 01:22:08,298
Just because
someone is now rapping
1183
01:22:08,424 --> 01:22:09,842
or doing poetry over a beat
1184
01:22:09,967 --> 01:22:11,552
doesn't mean
it's different from jazz.
1185
01:22:11,677 --> 01:22:14,763
So, for me, I think hip hop and
jazz are the exact same thing.
1186
01:22:17,349 --> 01:22:19,101
I think we are getting back
to the time
1187
01:22:19,226 --> 01:22:21,186
where people are more explicit
1188
01:22:21,353 --> 01:22:23,355
about the message
they're trying to convey.
1189
01:22:29,069 --> 01:22:30,737
There's a lot of people
in jail, man.
1190
01:22:31,530 --> 01:22:33,615
A lot of people thinking
about committing suicide
1191
01:22:33,740 --> 01:22:36,326
and all kinds of shit right now
cos times is fucked up.
1192
01:22:37,327 --> 01:22:39,496
I got to play the music
or else I'm gonna die.
1193
01:22:40,789 --> 01:22:43,208
Or get pulled over by the police
and you get killed.
1194
01:22:44,126 --> 01:22:46,670
So you got to do the music
to soothe the times.
1195
01:22:48,338 --> 01:22:49,840
- Can you hear me on this mic?
- Yeah.
1196
01:22:49,965 --> 01:22:51,258
- OK.
- What are the changes?
1197
01:22:51,425 --> 01:22:54,887
- What are you playing?
- It's a C minor flat 6.
1198
01:22:56,805 --> 01:22:58,265
A-flat major sharp 11.
1199
01:22:59,391 --> 01:23:01,894
The record company
that our founders started
1200
01:23:02,019 --> 01:23:04,229
allowed the musicians
complete freedom
1201
01:23:04,396 --> 01:23:07,274
as a method for breaking down
the barriers
1202
01:23:07,399 --> 01:23:09,735
that exist in music
and taking it to new places.
1203
01:23:10,402 --> 01:23:12,404
And you've got to keep
that tradition going.
1204
01:23:12,696 --> 01:23:14,156
You know, it's important
1205
01:23:14,281 --> 01:23:17,576
because now we're in an era
where the stakes are high.
1206
01:23:18,118 --> 01:23:20,287
There's a possibility now
Where kids can grow up
1207
01:23:20,412 --> 01:23:22,414
and not even care
to want to play an instrument.
1208
01:23:22,539 --> 01:23:25,042
It's really a vibe song
that interjects that...
1209
01:23:25,209 --> 01:23:29,087
If we don't keep handing it down
in the way that Herbie and Wayne
1210
01:23:29,213 --> 01:23:30,839
and those guys
have handed it to us,
1211
01:23:31,548 --> 01:23:34,843
it may change in a way
that we don't want it to change,
1212
01:23:34,968 --> 01:23:36,720
so we should be concentrating
1213
01:23:36,887 --> 01:23:39,932
on passing down those lessons
the greats taught us.
1214
01:23:40,516 --> 01:23:42,351
And then we can, like,
group-compose,
1215
01:23:42,476 --> 01:23:44,811
like, if we think
of some alternate changes.
1216
01:23:45,229 --> 01:23:46,813
I was thinking
of something vibey.
1217
01:23:46,939 --> 01:23:50,817
We want the generation of now
to understand the music.
1218
01:23:50,984 --> 01:23:53,487
You know what I mean? Especially
understand jazz music.
1219
01:23:56,990 --> 01:23:57,991
Wanna try it?
1220
01:23:59,535 --> 01:24:01,787
- Keith, are you recording?
- Indeed.
1221
01:24:01,912 --> 01:24:03,288
OK, let's just try it.
1222
01:24:03,956 --> 01:24:05,624
24, take 24...
95309
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