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[sirens]
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[sirens]
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-Something terrible
happened to somebody
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close to me.
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While I was in United States.
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I had a girlfriend.
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She got killed.
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Violently.
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Very violently.
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Use the free code JOINNOW at
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-What are you accused of?
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-Killing 34 women.
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- Stéphane Bourgoin.
- Stéphane Bourgoin.
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- Stéphane Bourgoin.
- Stéphane Bourgoin.
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[Lauren Collins]
Stéphane Bourgoin had become
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one of the foremost experts
on serial killers in France.
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[Stéphane Bourgoin] What were
those morbid games that you
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played with your sister?
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-He was this titan of
the true crime industry.
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[Stéphane Bourgoin] I don't
think there is anybody in the
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world who has seen as many
serial killers as I did.
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[Lauren Collins] But
nothing was what it seemed.
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-With Stéphane, there is a
fascination for violence.
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-People had this slew
of theories about
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what could have happened.
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[Aja Raden] They told themselves
they were perusing justice.
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-Lies have a funny way
of becoming real.
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[Maât] I didn't trust him,
for some reason.
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I thought I was the only one.
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-This whole charade
blew up in his face.
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-This is a very strange con
story that took place over
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the course of decades.
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And the longer I've gone on
the more questions it's raised.
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[Valak] We had a
target in mind.
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And we were all
consumed by it.
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-Is he dangerous?
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Why all this
attention for serial killing?
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[Lauren Collins] He took a
masterclass from these guys.
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-People's going to
believe what they
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want to believe anyhow.
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-Really there was only
one person who could
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speak to the why.
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And that was
Stéphane Bourgoin.
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[Stéphane Bourgoin] I would do
it again and again and again.
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[in French] Silence, please.
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[speaking French]
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-Take one.
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[slate tap]
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-The story begins in 2019.
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-Stéphane Bourgoin is at the
height of his public notoriety.
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[Lauren Collins] He's
this master of true crime.
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[Lauren Collins] Bourgoin had
power, access, and influence.
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And the thing that got
him attention were these
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extraordinary stories
that he retailed.
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-For me, he was the man that
gave me my first informations
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about who are serial killers
and what makes them tick.
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-This time of the history of
criminology in France
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he was the one and only.
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Whatever happened
in the crime field.
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He was there.
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[Lauren Collins] That brought
him into contact with real
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law enforcement, real
criminal profilers.
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[Lauren Collins] He actually
even claimed that he had
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solved some crimes himself.
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[Alain Bauer] He's
hypnotized by criminals.
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Which mean going
on the dark side.
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[Lauren Collins]
He's a little creepy.
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He's gory, he's a little
inappropriate,
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he's pushing the limits.
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And within a year, he was
going to abruptly lose it all.
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[Lauren Collins] But to really
understand what happened,
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we have to go back
to the beginning of his
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true crime career.
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[director] Carol Kehringer ITV.
Take one.
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[director] Rolling, rolling.
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[gunshots]
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[John Douglas] A serial killer,
uh, uh, has a very good chance
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of getting away with his crimes.
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[gunshots]
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[Stéphane Bourgoin]
And I got some tips from
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John Douglas also...
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-Oh, did you?
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[Stéphane Bourgoin]
...to interview Kemper.
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[FBI agent] John has talked
to Kemper I think three times.
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[Stéphane Bourgoin] Yes.
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[Olivier Raffet] Before leaving
we went to the FBI gift shop.
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Stéphane was very interested
in buying all kind of
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things from that store.
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[in French] Yes.
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-Then we go to Florida.
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To Stark Prison.
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And this is where we would meet
the two first serial killers.
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Stéphane was of course
very excited to be there.
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[Olivier Raffet] For me, it is
a bit scary this fascination
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for true crime
and serial killers.
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[Sarah Weinman]
Serial killers are not a
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uniquely American phenomenon.
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[reporter] Parts of bodies
leading them to believe...
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[reporter] The murder trial
of John Gacy did indeed
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get underway today.
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[reporter] Los Angeles police
today arrested the man they
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believe is the
so-called Night Stalker.
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[Sarah Weinman] What is unique
in America is the frequency
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of serial killers.
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It's understood that the term
serial killer was coined by
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Robert Ressler and John Douglas,
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who was an FBI profiler
and the founder of
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the Behavioral Science Unit.
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[John Douglas] What I did was,
for the first time,
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was to go into
penitentiaries and interview
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serial killers and rapists.
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Uh, murderers of all types.
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[Sarah Weinman] Thomas Harris,
a reporter for the
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Associated Press,
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decided to embed with
these profilers, and from that,
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he created a character
named Hannibal Lecter.
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And that cemented the serial
killer as a fictional archetype.
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Media properties elevated serial
killers to supervillains.
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[Hannibal Lecter] Morning.
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-I think for
someone like Bourgoin,
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that can be very exciting.
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[Olivier Raffet] We had seen
that movie Silence of the Lambs,
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so we didn't know
whether there would
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be glass in between us.
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-Hell, I can do that in here...
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[♪ suspenseful music playing]
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[Oliver Raffet]
But the guard left us
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without anybody watching.
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00:09:11,593 --> 00:09:14,304
Ottis Toole was known the
Jacksonville Cannibal because
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he claimed to eat his victims.
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Authorities think the number
of people he murdered could
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be over a hundred.
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[Stéphane Bourgoin] Your
recipe for the barbecue sauce.
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I must tell you
that I tried it.
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-Was it any good?
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[Stéphane Bourgoin]
Yeah, it was very good.
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Although I didn't try it on the
same kind of meat that you did.
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[laughs]
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-It's good
on any kind of meat.
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[Stéphane Bourgoin] Yeah?
On any kind, yes.
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[Olivier Raffet] So after
the interview with Toole,
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the guard came back
with Gerald Schaefer.
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Gerald Schaefer was
a sheriff's deputy,
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00:09:57,931 --> 00:10:00,433
was convicted of
killing two teenagers.
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00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,145
He was suspected of being
involved in the deaths of
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more than two dozen
other victims.
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He told us that he
wrote books about killings.
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[Gerald Schaefer] No I said,
"I ought to put these into
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a book format,
into an anthology.
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And fictionalize them.
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And maybe I can get across the
horror of what serial murder
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is all about."
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-After the
interview was done,
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Stéphane asked Gerald Schaefer
to autograph books
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he had brought.
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[Stéphane Bourgoin] Well
you know I'm a writer also?
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[Gerald Schaefer]
Are you really?
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[Stéphane Bourgoin] We
write the same books, yes.
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00:10:43,643 --> 00:10:45,186
-I have written
this documentary.
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-How did you like this?
Did you enjoy this?
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-Yes, I liked it very much.
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[Hannibal Lecter] May I
see your credentials?
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That expires in one week.
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You're not real FBI, are you?
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[Lauren Collins]
Silence of the Lambs
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set up this idea
that there were more dimensions
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to serial killers.
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That there was more to
be probed and discovered.
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Whatever his motivation was,
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Bourgoin was clearly fascinated.
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[Clarice Starling] I'm
here to learn from you.
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[Lauren Collins] But, the way
he conducted these interviews
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took that fascination
to a whole new level.
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[Olivier Raffet] After Florida
we went to California to the
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jail where Ed Kemper
was imprisoned.
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[♪ dramatic music playing]
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[prison buzzer]
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Edmund Kemper was
known as the "Co-ed Killer."
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He was convicted of
killing eight people,
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including his mother.
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-Hi.
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[Oliver Raffet] He was known
also for raping corpses
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of his victims.
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[Edmund Kemper] The decapitation
fantasies were even there.
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They were in place
by then already.
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00:12:10,146 --> 00:12:11,814
[Stéphane Bourgoin] What
where those fantasies?
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-What were they?
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[Stéphane Bourgoin] Oh, yes.
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-Um... possessing the
severed heads of women.
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That got caught up in
my morbid fascination.
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[Stéphane Bourgoin] And
did you take Polaroids also?
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00:12:44,555 --> 00:12:46,766
-At first, I did, yeah.
But that stopped.
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[Stéphane Bourgoin]
Why did you do that?
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00:12:50,061 --> 00:12:52,230
-At first, I was
hoping I could get off,
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00:12:52,230 --> 00:12:54,941
I could get a vicarious thrill
in seeing those pictures and
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00:12:54,941 --> 00:12:56,401
say, well, this will
be satisfying enough.
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00:12:56,401 --> 00:12:58,069
One...
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00:12:58,069 --> 00:13:00,321
...two people die, that's it,
doesn't have to go past that.
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00:13:00,321 --> 00:13:02,115
And I'll see why I
don't wanna do it again.
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00:13:24,470 --> 00:13:28,933
[♪ theme music playing]
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[Olivier Raffet] At the time
we shot this film I did not
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00:13:35,148 --> 00:13:38,401
realize what we got to
film was exceptional.
203
00:14:12,977 --> 00:14:14,854
-Those tapes
kicked off his career.
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00:14:14,854 --> 00:14:17,482
They opened doors,
they launched his brand.
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00:14:29,452 --> 00:14:30,495
[Lauren Collins] He
had the documentary.
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00:14:30,495 --> 00:14:31,329
Then he had a book.
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00:14:32,705 --> 00:14:34,207
[Lauren Collins] Once you
have a book, you get on TV.
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00:14:36,751 --> 00:14:37,752
[Lauren Collins]
Once you're on TV...
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00:14:43,007 --> 00:14:44,342
[Lauren Collins] ...you're the
expert.
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00:14:46,761 --> 00:14:49,639
Stéphane Bourgoin is very
conscious of this zeitgeist.
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00:14:50,890 --> 00:14:53,226
He knew that he could
repackage this thing as like
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00:14:53,226 --> 00:14:55,228
a hot new trend in France.
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00:15:02,193 --> 00:15:03,277
[Lauren Collins]
And by the 2000s,
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00:15:03,277 --> 00:15:04,946
Bourgoin had legions of fans,
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00:15:04,946 --> 00:15:07,115
who hung on his every
word on social media and who
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00:15:07,115 --> 00:15:09,158
turned out in droves for
his book conferences.
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00:15:10,326 --> 00:15:12,578
[cheering and applause]
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00:15:24,382 --> 00:15:26,217
[Maât] I must have found one
of his books, you know,
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00:15:26,217 --> 00:15:28,219
in one of the
libraries I went to.
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00:15:29,178 --> 00:15:31,389
I thought finally somebody
who's writing about
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00:15:31,389 --> 00:15:33,057
true crime in French.
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00:15:33,683 --> 00:15:35,101
Finally, it's about time.
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00:15:35,101 --> 00:15:36,769
And I read one of his books,
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00:15:36,769 --> 00:15:38,229
then two of his books,
then three.
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00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,347
[Valak] The first book I read
about serial killers was
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00:16:13,347 --> 00:16:16,184
The Cannibal of Milwaukee
by Stéphane Bourgoin.
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00:16:16,684 --> 00:16:18,728
In three or four days
the book was finished.
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00:16:45,463 --> 00:16:47,590
[Maât] He was everywhere on TV
at some point, and I noticed
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00:16:47,590 --> 00:16:51,594
that he was always rehashing
the same things, all over again.
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00:16:53,930 --> 00:16:54,972
[Maât] Always the same words.
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00:16:56,307 --> 00:16:58,684
[Maât] Always,
almost in the same way.
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00:17:03,689 --> 00:17:04,732
[Maât] In the same order.
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00:17:08,194 --> 00:17:11,239
[Maât] I had a weird tingling
on the back of my neck going,
234
00:17:11,239 --> 00:17:13,491
like, something's wrong.
235
00:17:14,659 --> 00:17:17,453
That's probably what raised
the first real red flag.
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00:17:18,287 --> 00:17:19,747
It's almost a circus act.
237
00:17:20,248 --> 00:17:22,375
I mean it's rehearsed.
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00:17:23,292 --> 00:17:28,339
[♪ mysterious music playing]
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00:17:30,967 --> 00:17:33,844
[Valak] I reread some
books by Stéphane Bourgoin.
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00:17:33,844 --> 00:17:36,097
That's when I realized
there were anomalies.
241
00:17:36,556 --> 00:17:38,432
I thought it was just a
mistake around dates.
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00:18:04,917 --> 00:18:07,628
[notification alerts]
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00:18:14,343 --> 00:18:15,469
[notification alert]
244
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[notification alerts]
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00:18:41,662 --> 00:18:42,747
[mouse click]
246
00:18:43,664 --> 00:18:47,418
[various keystrokes]
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00:18:47,418 --> 00:18:50,254
[Maât] When this whole started
to get really serious,
248
00:18:50,254 --> 00:18:55,593
we decided to find a name for
our little group, and then we
249
00:18:55,593 --> 00:18:58,804
thought about the name of
Bourgoin's bookstore in Paris,
250
00:18:58,804 --> 00:18:59,972
which was The Third Eye.
251
00:19:01,932 --> 00:19:03,851
[Maãt] The third eye is
the eye that sees everything.
252
00:19:03,851 --> 00:19:06,479
It's the all-known,
all-seeing eye.
253
00:19:07,605 --> 00:19:09,940
So we became The Fourth Eye.
254
00:19:12,568 --> 00:19:15,321
We are here to
correct his view.
255
00:19:15,696 --> 00:19:17,114
[Valak] We were
watching Bourgoin,
256
00:19:17,114 --> 00:19:18,658
but he didn't know it yet.
257
00:19:18,658 --> 00:19:20,284
There's something
wrong with this man
258
00:19:20,284 --> 00:19:22,036
and we had nothing to lose.
259
00:19:24,830 --> 00:19:29,502
[♪ mysterious music playing]
260
00:19:30,002 --> 00:19:31,504
[Aja Raden] True crime
about murders,
261
00:19:31,504 --> 00:19:33,005
particularly serial killers,
262
00:19:33,005 --> 00:19:35,883
has a sort of
epic component to it.
263
00:19:36,842 --> 00:19:38,803
- He went from
victim to victim.
264
00:19:38,803 --> 00:19:42,098
[Aja Raden] That's as evil,
as grotesque as crime gets.
265
00:19:42,598 --> 00:19:46,435
Stéphane Bourgoin, he had a
particular kink for people
266
00:19:46,435 --> 00:19:49,605
being murdered in grotesque
ways, and he was performing
267
00:19:49,605 --> 00:19:52,566
for a giant audience,
who said "We love it.
268
00:19:52,817 --> 00:19:54,193
More, more, more."
269
00:20:03,327 --> 00:20:04,745
[Soledad O'Brien] Stéphane
checked all the boxes.
270
00:20:04,745 --> 00:20:06,455
Most people had not
interviewed a serial killer
271
00:20:06,455 --> 00:20:08,374
and he could talk about,
you know,
272
00:20:08,374 --> 00:20:09,667
these things that were riveting.
273
00:20:17,049 --> 00:20:20,052
-Working on TV news,
you could see very easily that
274
00:20:20,052 --> 00:20:22,680
true crime
got a lot of traction.
275
00:20:22,930 --> 00:20:24,432
- And what if
the threat came down to
276
00:20:24,432 --> 00:20:26,934
one individual, a single
terrorist, lone blackmailer,
277
00:20:26,934 --> 00:20:29,895
solo nut, now able
to make his own bomb?
278
00:20:30,521 --> 00:20:32,857
[Soledad O'Brien] ABC's 20/20
was among the very first.
279
00:20:33,107 --> 00:20:37,027
They really, in the '70s, set
the stage for creating content
280
00:20:37,027 --> 00:20:38,821
by following these
stories of crime.
281
00:20:39,697 --> 00:20:42,283
After that, there was
48 Hours of course.
282
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,536
So now there is
a ticking clock.
283
00:20:45,870 --> 00:20:48,330
[John Walsh] The portrait of
a serial killer is always
284
00:20:48,330 --> 00:20:49,540
a chilling one.
285
00:20:49,540 --> 00:20:50,958
[Soledad O'Brien]
American's Most Wanted
286
00:20:50,958 --> 00:20:54,170
with John Walsh brought
true crime kind of a bit of
287
00:20:54,170 --> 00:20:55,713
a different direction
288
00:20:55,713 --> 00:20:59,884
with that personal element of
a dad who had lost his son.
289
00:21:00,468 --> 00:21:02,470
- There's only one
hope for justice.
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00:21:02,470 --> 00:21:03,554
You.
291
00:21:03,554 --> 00:21:05,222
-And an audience
wanting to participate,
292
00:21:05,222 --> 00:21:06,849
wanting to take part.
293
00:21:06,849 --> 00:21:08,392
- If you can help, call.
294
00:21:08,392 --> 00:21:11,687
Because the next victim
might be someone you love.
295
00:21:12,021 --> 00:21:14,774
[Soledad O'Brien] Then on
cable news, suddenly it is
296
00:21:14,774 --> 00:21:17,359
unfolding live in front of us.
297
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,196
[reporter] The intersection
of the five and the 91 freeway.
298
00:21:20,529 --> 00:21:21,530
[Soledad O'Brien]
And because it's cable,
299
00:21:21,530 --> 00:21:22,948
we have the capacity,
300
00:21:22,948 --> 00:21:24,575
we don't have to
break away to commercial.
301
00:21:24,575 --> 00:21:26,660
[reporter] An inside look at
one of the most sensational
302
00:21:26,660 --> 00:21:28,162
murder trials in years.
303
00:21:28,162 --> 00:21:29,830
[Soledad O'Brien] We're talking
about the Menendez brothers.
304
00:21:29,830 --> 00:21:31,248
[reporter] The body
of JonBenét Ramsey,
305
00:21:31,248 --> 00:21:32,666
strangled and beaten.
306
00:21:32,666 --> 00:21:33,667
-JonBenét Ramsey.
307
00:21:33,667 --> 00:21:35,169
We're talkin'
about OJ Simpson.
308
00:21:35,169 --> 00:21:36,712
[reporter] He killed her.
309
00:21:36,712 --> 00:21:38,839
[Soledad O'Brien] If you layer
in celebrity, suddenly your
310
00:21:38,839 --> 00:21:40,925
eyeballs are just massive.
311
00:21:41,217 --> 00:21:43,052
- Tonight, the clock is ticking.
312
00:21:43,052 --> 00:21:44,637
[Soledad O'Brien] There
are channels then, right,
313
00:21:44,637 --> 00:21:47,431
that if you love true crime
it is the place to go.
314
00:21:47,431 --> 00:21:50,684
Technology made
participation so much easier.
315
00:21:51,227 --> 00:21:53,562
[reporter] Do you have
any new clues or theories?
316
00:21:53,562 --> 00:21:55,564
- Follow us on our
Facebook page.
317
00:21:56,023 --> 00:21:58,150
[Soledad O'Brien] Social
media really tapped into that.
318
00:21:58,150 --> 00:22:00,778
[reporter] The next
question is from Kiru.
319
00:22:00,778 --> 00:22:02,279
[Soledad O'Brien] It's much
more interesting if you're
320
00:22:02,279 --> 00:22:04,406
actually part of a story.
321
00:22:04,406 --> 00:22:06,784
If you're part of moving it
along and seeing where
322
00:22:06,784 --> 00:22:07,910
that story goes.
323
00:22:10,287 --> 00:22:12,414
[Lauren Collins] Bourgoin was
very conscious of the power of
324
00:22:12,414 --> 00:22:15,834
fandom, and he did everything
that he could to stoke that.
325
00:22:15,834 --> 00:22:19,588
The Fourth Eye is effectively
people who met on Facebook.
326
00:22:21,340 --> 00:22:25,427
He taught all these fans
how to investigate,
327
00:22:25,886 --> 00:22:29,306
how to understand
the mind of a liar,
328
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,685
how to penetrate myth
and mania and deception.
329
00:22:33,811 --> 00:22:35,437
[keystrokes]
330
00:22:47,408 --> 00:22:50,744
[Maât] We thought that it would
be good to start investigating.
331
00:22:58,043 --> 00:23:01,005
[♪ ominous music playing]
332
00:23:01,005 --> 00:23:04,758
[Maât] In 1995 Gerard Schaefer
was stabbed by another inmate
333
00:23:06,594 --> 00:23:08,596
and cremated afterwards.
334
00:23:45,049 --> 00:23:48,427
[Maât] Why on earth
would anybody send him
335
00:23:48,427 --> 00:23:49,845
the remains of Schaefer?
336
00:23:49,845 --> 00:23:50,888
Why?
337
00:23:50,888 --> 00:23:52,556
That makes no sense.
338
00:23:52,556 --> 00:23:55,351
So, of course, we contacted
the family of Schaefer.
339
00:23:56,477 --> 00:23:59,730
[♪ whimsical music playing]
340
00:23:59,730 --> 00:24:01,190
[notification alert]
341
00:24:29,343 --> 00:24:33,389
[Maât] So we were thinking what
else could he be lying about?
342
00:24:35,057 --> 00:24:36,684
Why, why?
343
00:24:36,684 --> 00:24:39,144
It's a big question mark.
344
00:24:39,144 --> 00:24:42,064
We looked in books and
magazines, newspapers,
345
00:24:42,064 --> 00:24:43,816
and the more we digged,
the more we found,
346
00:24:43,816 --> 00:24:46,110
and the more we found,
the more it got deeper
347
00:24:46,110 --> 00:24:47,486
and deeper, and deeper.
348
00:24:50,030 --> 00:24:53,409
[♪ melodic music playing]
349
00:24:53,409 --> 00:24:56,286
-In the 2000s,
Stéphane Bourgoin is everywhere.
350
00:24:56,662 --> 00:24:59,289
Not only is he still writing
books and making documentaries,
351
00:24:59,289 --> 00:25:01,041
but he starts
fielding invitations
352
00:25:01,041 --> 00:25:02,501
from police academies.
353
00:25:12,052 --> 00:25:13,887
[Lauren Collins] And so we see
him cross this line from media
354
00:25:13,887 --> 00:25:16,598
talking head, to somebody
who could actually train law
355
00:25:16,598 --> 00:25:18,684
enforcement on how to
think like a serial killer.
356
00:25:27,735 --> 00:25:29,028
[Lauren Collins] I think
he wanted to be the famed
357
00:25:29,028 --> 00:25:31,530
FBI profiler John Douglas.
358
00:25:32,406 --> 00:25:35,659
But as The Fourth Eye started
to look critically at the life
359
00:25:35,659 --> 00:25:38,370
of Stéphane Bourgoin, they
began to question whether he'd
360
00:25:38,370 --> 00:25:41,081
really interviewed dozens
of serial killers at all.
361
00:25:52,593 --> 00:25:55,471
[Maât] You can be addicted
to your own fame and then
362
00:25:55,471 --> 00:25:58,265
you tend to be more
and more, and more.
363
00:26:03,979 --> 00:26:05,939
[Maât] It's like his
ego inflated, literally.
364
00:26:12,529 --> 00:26:15,866
[Maât] He was constantly saying
that he met 77 serial killers.
365
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,373
[Valak] John Douglas is the
FBI's leading special agent,
366
00:26:23,373 --> 00:26:27,044
an expert criminal profiler
and in his lifetime only ever
367
00:26:27,044 --> 00:26:29,046
interviewed 36 serial killers.
368
00:26:43,310 --> 00:26:45,646
[Valak] We saw that Bourgoin
interviewed eight serial killers
369
00:26:45,646 --> 00:26:46,980
in front of cameras.
370
00:26:46,980 --> 00:26:48,565
Only eight.
371
00:26:48,816 --> 00:26:50,943
He said he was not
allowed to show the others.
372
00:26:51,193 --> 00:26:52,694
That seemed strange to us.
373
00:26:52,694 --> 00:26:55,197
I started to write to other
serial killers that he could
374
00:26:55,197 --> 00:26:56,532
have possibly met with.
375
00:26:57,282 --> 00:26:59,868
Among those who responded
to me, there was BTK.
376
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,037
I asked him if
he knew Bourgoin.
377
00:27:02,496 --> 00:27:03,580
No.
378
00:27:03,580 --> 00:27:04,748
Robert Yates?
379
00:27:04,748 --> 00:27:05,791
No.
380
00:27:05,791 --> 00:27:06,792
William Suff?
381
00:27:06,792 --> 00:27:08,460
He didn't know him either.
382
00:27:08,794 --> 00:27:10,128
Phillip Jablonski?
383
00:27:10,128 --> 00:27:11,922
He didn't know him either.
384
00:27:12,172 --> 00:27:14,716
I sent three or four
almost every weekend.
385
00:27:14,716 --> 00:27:17,136
The majority said
they didn't know him.
386
00:27:17,970 --> 00:27:19,596
[Lauren Collins] And yet,
when Bourgoin talked about
387
00:27:19,596 --> 00:27:22,349
interrogating killers,
he'd give incredibly detailed
388
00:27:22,349 --> 00:27:24,518
accounts of meeting
them face-to-face.
389
00:27:24,518 --> 00:27:26,895
That included an encounter
he said he'd had with
390
00:27:26,895 --> 00:27:29,731
Charles Manson, one of the
most notorious cult figures
391
00:27:29,731 --> 00:27:30,774
in the world.
392
00:27:51,128 --> 00:27:53,714
[Maât] And I'm like, wait a
minute, I read that somewhere.
393
00:27:55,257 --> 00:27:56,383
So I looked.
394
00:27:59,136 --> 00:28:02,347
And it was exactly
like in Mindhunter,
395
00:28:02,347 --> 00:28:04,057
a book from John Douglas.
396
00:28:04,349 --> 00:28:06,059
[John Douglas] He
was extremely small.
397
00:28:06,059 --> 00:28:09,062
As I did the interview, he
sat up on top of the chair to
398
00:28:09,062 --> 00:28:11,523
dominate us during the
interview and interrogation.
399
00:28:11,940 --> 00:28:14,526
[Maât] Bourgoin said the
exact same sentence in French.
400
00:28:14,526 --> 00:28:17,404
And I'm like, what?
401
00:28:17,654 --> 00:28:18,822
[laughs]
402
00:28:19,489 --> 00:28:21,283
[Lauren Collins] He was creating
a persona for himself
403
00:28:21,283 --> 00:28:23,118
that essentially
authorized him to
404
00:28:23,118 --> 00:28:25,537
interrogate and investigate
serial killers.
405
00:28:37,215 --> 00:28:38,675
[Lauren Collins] And
no one questioned it,
406
00:28:38,675 --> 00:28:40,552
because Bourgoin claimed
he'd been trained by the FBI.
407
00:28:48,852 --> 00:28:50,729
[Valak] Bourgoin made
people believe that he had
408
00:28:50,729 --> 00:28:51,813
worked with the FBI.
409
00:29:05,535 --> 00:29:08,205
[Valak] We had some doubts,
so we went to the source.
410
00:29:29,059 --> 00:29:30,352
[notification alert]
411
00:29:30,686 --> 00:29:33,230
[Maât] And he was kind enough
to answer to our questions.
412
00:29:37,401 --> 00:29:41,154
He told us that Bourgoin was
never a trainee at the FBI.
413
00:29:41,822 --> 00:29:44,574
[Valak] He responds and says
it's a visitor badge with a
414
00:29:44,574 --> 00:29:47,119
t-shirt that was sold at
the FBI souvenir shop.
415
00:29:47,828 --> 00:29:51,373
[Maât] It was an endless
pit of discrepancies and
416
00:29:51,373 --> 00:29:53,083
lies upon lies, upon lies.
417
00:29:53,083 --> 00:29:56,086
It's a lasagna of lying
if I can say it like this.
418
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:58,922
[Lauren Collins] The Fourth Eye
was uncovering an
419
00:29:58,922 --> 00:30:02,134
elaborate ruse that was so
much bigger than any single
420
00:30:02,134 --> 00:30:03,593
lie or exaggeration.
421
00:30:04,136 --> 00:30:06,847
It was a pattern that gave
Bourgoin the bona fides he
422
00:30:06,847 --> 00:30:10,559
needed to propel his career,
and the lies were alarmingly
423
00:30:10,559 --> 00:30:13,228
bold and even dangerous.
424
00:30:19,443 --> 00:30:22,571
[camera shutters clicking]
425
00:30:24,448 --> 00:30:25,949
[Lauren Collins] Bourgoin
had positioned himself as a
426
00:30:25,949 --> 00:30:28,285
psychological
war correspondent.
427
00:30:28,285 --> 00:30:31,955
As a guy who would go to
the scariest, you know,
428
00:30:31,955 --> 00:30:35,417
darkest places on earth with a
sense of mission and purpose.
429
00:30:38,628 --> 00:30:40,797
He wants in on the action.
430
00:31:33,183 --> 00:31:35,310
[Valak] So we decided to
contact the people who knew
431
00:31:35,310 --> 00:31:39,064
Stéphane Bourgoin and we
started by sending an email
432
00:31:39,064 --> 00:31:40,524
to Micki Pistorius.
433
00:31:41,233 --> 00:31:43,777
She was a profiler on
the Stewart Wilken case.
434
00:31:43,777 --> 00:31:46,404
She's one of the best
profilers in the world and the
435
00:31:46,404 --> 00:31:48,198
subject of that Bourgoin book.
436
00:31:49,533 --> 00:31:51,159
[Micki Pistorius] I was a
profiler in the South African
437
00:31:51,159 --> 00:31:55,539
police from 1994 to 2000.
438
00:31:57,374 --> 00:32:00,919
And I was the founder of the
Investigative Psychology Unit
439
00:32:00,919 --> 00:32:02,462
in the South African police.
440
00:32:02,462 --> 00:32:05,841
That is how the people of
the Centre Intenational de
441
00:32:05,841 --> 00:32:10,178
Criminale Penal read about me
and invited me to France to be
442
00:32:10,178 --> 00:32:12,013
one of their keynote speakers.
443
00:32:13,390 --> 00:32:15,684
Stéphane was signing
books in the foyer.
444
00:32:16,017 --> 00:32:19,521
They introduced me to him as
an author on serial killers.
445
00:32:20,147 --> 00:32:22,149
And then when I was
back in South Africa,
446
00:32:23,150 --> 00:32:25,610
he suggested that we
make a documentary.
447
00:32:30,782 --> 00:32:33,535
He arrived in South Africa with
the director Fred Tonolli...
448
00:32:34,202 --> 00:32:35,287
-Yeah.
449
00:32:36,037 --> 00:32:38,165
[Micki Pistorius] And the three
cases that they selected was
450
00:32:38,165 --> 00:32:40,500
Stewart Wilken,
which was in Port Elizabeth,
451
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,045
the Phoenix serial killer,
which was in Durban,
452
00:32:45,130 --> 00:32:47,465
and the last one was
the Saloon serial killer
453
00:32:47,465 --> 00:32:49,259
which was in Piet Retief.
454
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,430
All the serial killers were
already arrested by then.
455
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:55,348
It was not
ongoing investigations.
456
00:33:02,772 --> 00:33:05,901
But the detectives would
take Stéphane and the team
457
00:33:05,901 --> 00:33:10,071
to places where crime
scenes were processed before.
458
00:33:11,072 --> 00:33:13,700
Places where the
bodies were left.
459
00:33:14,868 --> 00:33:18,038
It was quite stressful for me
going back to the crime scenes.
460
00:33:22,792 --> 00:33:23,835
[in French] Hello.
461
00:34:29,734 --> 00:34:31,903
[Micki Pistorius] I think it
was clear he wanted to become
462
00:34:31,903 --> 00:34:33,863
a profiler like me.
463
00:34:36,283 --> 00:34:40,328
At some stage, I gave him
a copy of the manuscript to
464
00:34:40,328 --> 00:34:44,207
my book, the autobiography
called Catch Me A Killer.
465
00:34:45,959 --> 00:34:47,460
He'd written many books
about serial killers,
466
00:34:47,460 --> 00:34:49,838
this was my first one,
and he said,
467
00:34:49,838 --> 00:34:52,090
"Do you mind if I take it along
468
00:34:52,090 --> 00:34:54,676
so that I can
finish reading it?"
469
00:34:55,927 --> 00:34:58,805
And I said,
"Well, I suppose so."
470
00:35:01,433 --> 00:35:04,436
And then he took it
along with him to France.
471
00:35:05,145 --> 00:35:09,274
And at some stage, he
called me, and he said,
472
00:35:09,566 --> 00:35:12,235
"By the way, I wrote
a book about you."
473
00:35:13,445 --> 00:35:15,655
And that's when my
instinct told me
474
00:35:17,365 --> 00:35:18,950
there was something wrong.
475
00:35:22,287 --> 00:35:26,875
-I'd always experienced
Stéphane as an odd person.
476
00:35:28,752 --> 00:35:32,505
As far as Stéphane goes, I
didn't have contact with him
477
00:35:32,505 --> 00:35:36,134
for years and years and didn't
follow his career or nothing
478
00:35:36,885 --> 00:35:39,763
until The Fourth Eye Corporation
contacted me.
479
00:35:44,142 --> 00:35:45,810
[notification alert]
480
00:35:45,810 --> 00:35:47,812
[Valak] The first time we
wrote to Micki Pistorius,
481
00:35:47,812 --> 00:35:50,565
we told her we were a small
group of French people
482
00:35:50,565 --> 00:35:52,776
investigating Stéphane Bourgoin.
483
00:35:52,776 --> 00:35:55,528
We translated a part of the book
that Stéphane Bourgoin wrote.
484
00:35:55,945 --> 00:35:58,323
[Micki Pistorius] And they said,
"We think he copied
485
00:35:58,323 --> 00:36:00,033
parts of your book."
486
00:36:00,033 --> 00:36:04,204
My book is my autobiography,
so it covered my life from my
487
00:36:04,204 --> 00:36:07,707
very first day in the police,
and Stéphane's book,
488
00:36:08,166 --> 00:36:11,419
as he said, was just about the
documentary that we filmed.
489
00:36:12,212 --> 00:36:13,713
But it wasn't.
490
00:36:15,423 --> 00:36:18,843
If you look at his book, you
can see page after page,
491
00:36:19,135 --> 00:36:22,305
after page is just a
direct copy of my book.
492
00:36:23,139 --> 00:36:25,475
That is plain,
downright plagiarism.
493
00:36:26,309 --> 00:36:28,686
This is page one of my
book and page two of my book.
494
00:36:29,270 --> 00:36:31,856
This is a direct
translation of what he has.
495
00:36:33,149 --> 00:36:35,735
The next page, that's
page three of my book.
496
00:36:36,569 --> 00:36:39,781
He was completely
impersonating me.
497
00:36:41,241 --> 00:36:44,494
[Valak] And she replies,
"He's stealing from my life.
498
00:36:44,494 --> 00:36:46,579
Moments of my life."
499
00:36:48,665 --> 00:36:50,458
[Micki Pistorius] During the
radio interviews, he would
500
00:36:50,458 --> 00:36:53,336
tell the journalists that he
interrogated Stewart Wilken.
501
00:36:58,675 --> 00:37:01,219
[Derrick Norsworthy] This was
the old clipping after it was
502
00:37:01,219 --> 00:37:03,388
related to the press that
he was a serial killer.
503
00:37:03,805 --> 00:37:06,558
[Micki Pistorius] But obviously
that was the detective.
504
00:37:06,933 --> 00:37:08,768
[Stéphane Bourgoin] Have you
ever thought what you would
505
00:37:08,768 --> 00:37:11,396
feel if you hadn't
arrested Wilken?
506
00:37:11,855 --> 00:37:13,690
[Micki Pistorius] I mean,
by the time Stéphane got to
507
00:37:13,690 --> 00:37:15,775
South Africa for
the documentary,
508
00:37:15,775 --> 00:37:18,361
Stewart Wilken had already
been arrested for
509
00:37:18,361 --> 00:37:20,238
more than a year, and he
was already convicted.
510
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,492
And then on the back cover of
the book it just got worse.
511
00:37:25,785 --> 00:37:29,581
It reads, "For several months,
the author, that is Stéphane,
512
00:37:29,831 --> 00:37:33,126
has accompanied Micki Pistorius
in her daily work on
513
00:37:33,126 --> 00:37:37,589
crime scenes in morgues,
police stations, and even in
514
00:37:37,589 --> 00:37:39,799
high-security prisons."
515
00:37:39,799 --> 00:37:41,843
It's just not true.
516
00:37:41,843 --> 00:37:44,053
The blurb at the back of his
book, his selling point,
517
00:37:44,053 --> 00:37:46,139
is a complete lie.
518
00:37:47,515 --> 00:37:49,100
It's a complete lie.
519
00:37:50,435 --> 00:37:52,562
I can't say I'm angry.
520
00:37:52,562 --> 00:37:54,439
I'm deeply disappointed.
521
00:37:54,772 --> 00:37:59,486
I'm astounded, especially
after what he told me during
522
00:37:59,486 --> 00:38:01,112
the shooting of
the documentary.
523
00:38:22,592 --> 00:38:25,470
-His girlfriend was killed
by a serial killer.
524
00:39:03,424 --> 00:39:04,926
[Micki Pistorius] Something
like that stays with you
525
00:39:04,926 --> 00:39:06,177
for the rest of your life.
526
00:39:17,856 --> 00:39:19,274
[speaking in French]
527
00:39:19,524 --> 00:39:22,443
-I remember he
said that he had a girlfriend
528
00:39:22,443 --> 00:39:24,153
who had been found murdered.
529
00:39:25,822 --> 00:39:29,367
And that the crime was
attributed to a serial killer.
530
00:40:18,958 --> 00:40:20,710
[Lauren Collins] I think
people thought okay, well,
531
00:40:20,710 --> 00:40:24,005
maybe he's a little off,
but understandably.
532
00:40:34,307 --> 00:40:36,851
[Lauren Collins] There's
actually a beautiful photograph.
533
00:40:36,851 --> 00:40:40,480
You see these two young
gorgeous smitten people
534
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:42,815
staring into
each other's eyes.
535
00:40:42,815 --> 00:40:46,903
And naturally, you feel a lot of
empathy for the one left behind.
536
00:40:47,278 --> 00:40:49,697
But the irony is that there
are all these traits that
537
00:40:49,697 --> 00:40:51,991
he's taught us to look out
for in serial killers.
538
00:40:51,991 --> 00:40:55,411
A lack of empathy, a facility
with lying, a lack of remorse,
539
00:40:55,870 --> 00:40:57,914
that we see in Bourgoin too.
540
00:40:57,914 --> 00:41:00,500
I don't know, there are
people who think that there's
541
00:41:00,500 --> 00:41:05,421
something even more
sinister to be unearthed.
542
00:41:08,466 --> 00:41:09,634
Captioned by
Cotter Media Group.
542
00:41:10,305 --> 00:42:10,506
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