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[reporter] It's been four hours
since David Koresh and his
followers
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00:00:09,833 --> 00:00:12,267
have refused
to release themselves to the FBI
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00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,100
following a bloody shootout
with ATF.
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00:00:15,233 --> 00:00:17,100
Now, details are scarce,
but the question
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00:00:17,233 --> 00:00:22,933
everyone seems to be asking,
"Just when will they come out?"
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00:00:23,067 --> 00:00:26,733
[news anchor]
The federal agents came
under heavy and sustained fire
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00:00:26,867 --> 00:00:28,933
as they approached a ranch
owned by...
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00:00:29,067 --> 00:00:31,800
They're making us
look like monsters.
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00:00:31,933 --> 00:00:33,800
Calling us child abusers.
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00:00:34,567 --> 00:00:37,500
Everyone's in the chapel
wondering why we're not
going out.
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00:00:38,267 --> 00:00:39,800
I need you to talk to 'em.
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00:00:39,933 --> 00:00:41,267
[news anchor] ...believed
to have been collected
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00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:43,233
by Branch Davidian
cult members.
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00:00:43,367 --> 00:00:45,000
[whirring]
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00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,900
Negotiations failed, Noesner.
They reneged on their deal.
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00:00:50,667 --> 00:00:53,133
Let me handle this.
I can have the building
cleared by lunch.
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00:00:53,267 --> 00:00:55,967
Look. This isn't the first time
in the history of negotiations
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00:00:56,100 --> 00:00:58,900
that someone reneged
on a deal, okay?
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00:00:59,033 --> 00:01:02,200
Our primary objective has to be
getting those kids out safely.
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00:01:02,333 --> 00:01:03,700
Clearing the building
comes second.
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00:01:03,833 --> 00:01:05,167
They're screwing with us.
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00:01:05,300 --> 00:01:07,367
Now's the time to apply
more pressure.
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00:01:07,500 --> 00:01:10,833
No, no, no.
Let's not mistake getting even
for getting what we want.
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00:01:14,833 --> 00:01:16,800
"Trickle-flow-gush."
That's my next strategy.
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00:01:16,933 --> 00:01:20,533
If I can get a few people
to trickle out, more will follow
as it starts to flow
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00:01:20,667 --> 00:01:23,767
and once Koresh
sees enough people leave,
he won't be the last in line.
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00:01:24,667 --> 00:01:27,933
It would undermine
his authority. He'll lead
the rest of them out himself,
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and the whole thing
will be over.
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I just need a little time.
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00:01:33,500 --> 00:01:36,133
[sighs] Okay.
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00:01:38,167 --> 00:01:39,500
But...
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00:01:40,533 --> 00:01:44,767
a little show of force
might help get their attention.
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00:01:45,733 --> 00:01:47,200
Okay.
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00:01:47,967 --> 00:01:49,067
[David] Over the years...
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00:01:50,433 --> 00:01:52,633
you've looked to me
to be your leader.
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00:01:53,967 --> 00:01:56,233
To guide you on this journey.
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00:01:57,367 --> 00:01:59,333
But I'm no leader.
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00:01:59,467 --> 00:02:02,167
I'm a follower. Just like you.
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00:02:04,067 --> 00:02:06,367
God has instructed me
to stay here.
40
00:02:07,867 --> 00:02:10,367
And wait for His sign
before I go out there.
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00:02:12,300 --> 00:02:13,833
But I can't ask you
to do the same.
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00:02:13,967 --> 00:02:15,733
[helicopter whirring]
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00:02:15,867 --> 00:02:20,067
And whoever wants to leave,
you're free to go.
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00:02:20,133 --> 00:02:22,800
But those of thinking of going,
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00:02:23,833 --> 00:02:25,767
I want you to ask yourself...
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00:02:27,133 --> 00:02:30,600
why did you sacrifice
all the comforts you had
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00:02:30,733 --> 00:02:32,167
to come here?
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00:02:33,233 --> 00:02:35,867
Know it or not,
you came here to be tested.
49
00:02:37,433 --> 00:02:39,067
And this is a test.
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00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:43,300
This is our withering.
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00:02:45,700 --> 00:02:48,133
Our time to prove
through suffering...
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00:02:48,900 --> 00:02:52,167
that we are worthy
of the miracle that's to come.
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00:02:54,267 --> 00:02:55,767
[clears throat]
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00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:02,267
The kingdom of heaven
is coming.
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00:03:04,233 --> 00:03:07,600
And those of us
that pass this test
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00:03:07,733 --> 00:03:09,833
will be the worthy.
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00:03:11,433 --> 00:03:14,133
And those of us
that fail this test...
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00:03:16,533 --> 00:03:19,967
well... you're gonna have
to answer to God.
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00:03:20,900 --> 00:03:24,100
[panting] And I can't--
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00:03:24,867 --> 00:03:26,433
-[thud]
-[man] David!
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00:03:58,933 --> 00:04:01,233
[wind whistling]
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00:04:04,433 --> 00:04:06,200
[sighing]
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00:04:07,067 --> 00:04:08,467
You're burning up.
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00:04:09,433 --> 00:04:10,833
[wincing]
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00:04:10,967 --> 00:04:13,200
Uh, I'll get him some water.
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00:04:14,500 --> 00:04:16,800
[panting]
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00:04:23,867 --> 00:04:25,300
[panting]
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00:04:46,833 --> 00:04:48,533
Which one's my dad?
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00:05:03,367 --> 00:05:06,367
Hey. You probably shouldn't be
in here.
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00:05:06,500 --> 00:05:09,267
You know that old myrtle tree
outside?
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00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:11,067
-The one out front?
-Yeah.
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00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:12,600
[Thibodeau] Mm-hmm.
73
00:05:15,133 --> 00:05:17,467
My dad and I planted it
when I was five.
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00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,367
He loved that old tree.
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00:05:24,567 --> 00:05:27,200
He always wanted to be buried
next to it.
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00:05:29,933 --> 00:05:31,633
And now, look.
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00:05:31,767 --> 00:05:35,967
Instead, he's getting buried
with buckets and shovels like...
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00:05:36,100 --> 00:05:38,467
-like a piece of garbage.
-Hey.
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00:05:39,933 --> 00:05:42,100
-[sobs]
-Hey.
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00:05:47,367 --> 00:05:48,533
[whirring]
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00:05:53,633 --> 00:05:55,467
[whirring]
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00:06:01,133 --> 00:06:03,433
[faint rumbling]
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00:06:13,067 --> 00:06:15,067
[whirring]
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00:06:16,767 --> 00:06:17,833
[clicks]
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00:06:17,967 --> 00:06:20,133
Get back. Get back.
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00:06:21,433 --> 00:06:23,967
[Steve] You promised
to stay off our land.
87
00:06:24,100 --> 00:06:26,467
Well, David made a promise, too.
88
00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,633
He gave us his word,
after his message was played,
he'd come out.
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00:06:29,767 --> 00:06:33,667
He didn't come out.
He-- he broke his promise.
90
00:06:34,933 --> 00:06:36,300
Could you put him on the phone?
91
00:06:36,433 --> 00:06:37,867
No. He doesn't want
to talk to you right now.
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00:06:38,633 --> 00:06:40,533
[Gary] Look, Steve,
my bosses are frustrated.
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00:06:40,667 --> 00:06:42,600
They don't understand
why you didn't come out.
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00:06:42,733 --> 00:06:45,633
Look, I'm embarrassed
about that, on a
personal level.
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00:06:45,767 --> 00:06:49,967
We were gonna come out, but...
God told David that we
needed to wait.
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00:06:50,100 --> 00:06:53,233
-God told him?
-Yeah, just like you guys
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00:06:53,367 --> 00:06:56,900
follow a higher authority,
we do too.
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00:06:57,767 --> 00:06:59,100
Okay. So, what now?
99
00:07:00,233 --> 00:07:05,433
So, now, we wait
for a sign from God
to tell us to come out.
100
00:07:09,833 --> 00:07:11,533
Look...
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00:07:12,433 --> 00:07:16,433
I know this all probably
sounds funny to ya.
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00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:19,067
But...
103
00:07:19,133 --> 00:07:22,767
what if there is a higher power
than you or I, Gary?
104
00:07:23,867 --> 00:07:27,967
And that higher power,
He speaks to David?
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00:07:29,233 --> 00:07:31,533
If there is a God
in this universe,
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00:07:31,667 --> 00:07:34,500
and you've got the laws of man
and the laws of God,
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00:07:34,633 --> 00:07:38,600
and that God that has led David
his entire life
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00:07:38,733 --> 00:07:41,233
says to him, "Wait."
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00:07:42,533 --> 00:07:44,500
I mean,
what is he supposed to do?
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00:07:44,633 --> 00:07:46,267
Well, I have to be honest
with you, Steve.
111
00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:48,433
I don't know how my bosses
are gonna respond
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00:07:48,567 --> 00:07:51,433
when I tell them we're waiting
for a sign from God.
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00:07:53,067 --> 00:07:56,067
You know,
what I could really use
is a sign of good faith.
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00:07:57,433 --> 00:07:59,300
If David could send
some of the people out.
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00:07:59,433 --> 00:08:04,133
What, do you think
we're hostages here?
No one is a hostage here, Gary.
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00:08:04,267 --> 00:08:07,667
Everyone is free
to come and go as they please.
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00:08:08,700 --> 00:08:10,367
Then why isn't anyone
coming out?
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00:08:10,500 --> 00:08:13,133
Because, right now,
everyone feels safer in here
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than they do out there with you.
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00:08:15,467 --> 00:08:18,233
And because once you get
into this building,
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00:08:18,367 --> 00:08:21,133
you're going to be able
to mess with the evidence
in any way that you want.
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00:08:21,267 --> 00:08:23,800
And you can make up any story
that you want,
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00:08:23,933 --> 00:08:25,467
but if this building stands,
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00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,200
and the reporters and the press
get to see the evidence,
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00:08:28,333 --> 00:08:32,300
then it is going to be
clearly shown what happened
here, what these men--
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00:08:32,433 --> 00:08:35,200
what your men
came in here to do.
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00:08:37,067 --> 00:08:39,833
-You want us to come out?
-David, listen. You've gotta--
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00:08:39,967 --> 00:08:42,467
Then why are you bringing
these tanks in here?
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00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,933
Do you know what that tells me?
[panting]
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00:08:46,067 --> 00:08:47,633
That this is war.
131
00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,700
Why are you sending
all these people in here,
guns a-blazing?
132
00:08:52,833 --> 00:08:54,467
For war, Gary.
133
00:08:55,367 --> 00:08:57,333
-[helicopter whirring]
-And now, these tanks?
134
00:08:57,467 --> 00:08:59,367
And these guys surrounding us?
135
00:09:01,067 --> 00:09:06,300
You say you want us
to come out, but it sure
doesn't look like that to us.
136
00:09:07,767 --> 00:09:09,400
David, I--
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00:09:14,667 --> 00:09:15,833
[gasps]
138
00:09:17,133 --> 00:09:19,300
[grunts]
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00:09:21,267 --> 00:09:22,567
[sighs]
140
00:09:29,233 --> 00:09:30,867
"Personal level."
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00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:33,867
"On a personal level."
142
00:09:34,933 --> 00:09:36,800
What'd we just learn
from this conversation?
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00:09:36,933 --> 00:09:39,400
That they'll do whatever
this Koresh guy tells 'em.
144
00:09:39,533 --> 00:09:41,333
No, we already knew that.
145
00:09:42,100 --> 00:09:45,267
But Steve said that he
was embarrassed about that
"on a personal level."
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00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:47,300
He's separating himself
from Koresh.
147
00:09:48,067 --> 00:09:49,733
-Saying he doesn't agree.
-Huh.
148
00:09:50,500 --> 00:09:52,633
What can you tell me
about this Steve Schneider?
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00:09:52,767 --> 00:09:56,300
Uh, well, he was
a professor of theology
at the University of Hawaii.
150
00:09:56,433 --> 00:09:58,800
-Uh-huh.
-He's originally from Wisconsin.
151
00:09:58,933 --> 00:10:01,200
He and his wife joined the group
six years ago.
152
00:10:01,333 --> 00:10:04,400
He's their star recruiter.
The group has nearly doubled
since he joined.
153
00:10:04,533 --> 00:10:06,700
-Really?
-Our informant says
154
00:10:06,833 --> 00:10:09,000
that he's the glue
that keeps this place together.
155
00:10:09,133 --> 00:10:10,600
And get this.
156
00:10:10,733 --> 00:10:12,433
His wife, Judy,
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00:10:12,567 --> 00:10:14,567
recently had a baby with Koresh.
158
00:10:14,700 --> 00:10:18,567
[whistles] That can't be good
for the relationship.
159
00:10:18,700 --> 00:10:19,700
Yeah.
160
00:10:19,833 --> 00:10:21,633
[Walter chuckles]
161
00:10:22,833 --> 00:10:24,600
If Steve brought
most of these people in,
162
00:10:24,733 --> 00:10:27,400
I would guess
he feels responsible
for their well-being.
163
00:10:27,533 --> 00:10:31,633
Right? Let's focus
all our attention on him.
164
00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,367
If we can break Steve away,
this whole thing ends.
165
00:10:40,233 --> 00:10:42,633
[Steve] David...?
166
00:10:43,433 --> 00:10:45,433
[voice echoes] Can you hear me?
167
00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:48,700
I'd like to send
some people out.
168
00:10:49,467 --> 00:10:51,867
Jaydean's kids
are without a mother,
169
00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:56,867
and Margaret and Catherine,
they're just--
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00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:58,400
they're just too old for this.
171
00:10:58,533 --> 00:11:00,567
[Rachel]
We are running low on food.
172
00:11:01,367 --> 00:11:03,333
And our water supply
is real bad.
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00:11:05,367 --> 00:11:07,667
The less mouths to feed,
the better.
174
00:11:10,833 --> 00:11:11,733
[knocking]
175
00:11:13,467 --> 00:11:15,733
-Well, that's getting worse.
-Yeah.
176
00:11:16,700 --> 00:11:17,700
Let me see.
177
00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:19,833
It hurts real bad.
178
00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:22,233
[Steve] Ooh-whee.
179
00:11:23,500 --> 00:11:25,200
-Hey.
-Hmm?
180
00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,800
-I'm thinking you should go.
-Well, is David going?
181
00:11:30,833 --> 00:11:32,500
[sighs] No.
182
00:11:34,633 --> 00:11:37,067
-Then I'm not going.
-Look at your finger.
183
00:11:37,167 --> 00:11:41,600
If that infection spreads,
you-- I mean, you could
lose your hand.
184
00:11:41,733 --> 00:11:43,633
-I know.
-You could lose your life.
185
00:11:43,767 --> 00:11:46,867
It hurts so bad, I can't sleep.
186
00:11:49,233 --> 00:11:50,400
Cut it off.
187
00:11:51,267 --> 00:11:52,267
What?
188
00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:53,333
I'm gonna lose it anyway, Steve.
189
00:11:53,467 --> 00:11:54,867
-Cut it off.
-No!
190
00:11:55,900 --> 00:11:58,267
Has everyone around here
lost their minds?
191
00:11:59,067 --> 00:12:01,867
Nobody's
cutting your finger off!
And I'm sending you outside
192
00:12:02,067 --> 00:12:03,633
-to get medical attention.
-No, you're not!
193
00:12:03,767 --> 00:12:05,667
-Yes I am--
-No, you are not!
194
00:12:11,900 --> 00:12:14,833
I just got off the phone.
They're sending four people out.
195
00:12:14,967 --> 00:12:18,067
-Two of 'em, kids.
-That's a start.
196
00:12:18,167 --> 00:12:20,233
Four people seems hardly cause
for celebration.
197
00:12:20,367 --> 00:12:23,900
Well, they're
starting to trickle out.
The strategy's working.
198
00:12:25,867 --> 00:12:28,300
Now, you think you can help me
coordinate bringing 'em out?
199
00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:32,500
Yeah, sure.
200
00:12:36,767 --> 00:12:38,533
[baby moans]
201
00:13:02,067 --> 00:13:05,400
[whining] Mama.
202
00:13:05,533 --> 00:13:07,533
Mama. Ma...
203
00:13:19,133 --> 00:13:20,567
Hey, there.
204
00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,367
I'm Gary. What's your name?
205
00:13:27,300 --> 00:13:29,233
-Leona.
-Leona?
206
00:13:29,367 --> 00:13:31,367
Such a pretty name.
207
00:13:33,333 --> 00:13:36,567
Hey, why don't we call your mom
and tell her you're okay?
208
00:13:39,267 --> 00:13:42,667
-We can't call her.
-Why not?
209
00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:45,533
Because you killed her.
210
00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:49,900
[sighs]
211
00:14:02,533 --> 00:14:04,833
-Hey, Steve?
-Yep?
212
00:14:06,233 --> 00:14:08,833
I was wondering
if you could talk to
the FBI about Perry.
213
00:14:08,967 --> 00:14:11,433
See if they'll let us
bury his body outside.
214
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,700
I asked you to bury his body
in the storm shelter.
215
00:14:14,833 --> 00:14:16,867
-I know. It's just-- Michelle.
-Mm-hmm.
216
00:14:17,633 --> 00:14:20,567
I know it would mean
a lot to her if we could
bury him by the myrtle tree--
217
00:14:20,700 --> 00:14:22,867
It's impossible.
It's not gonna happen.
218
00:14:23,667 --> 00:14:25,967
Could you just ask? Please?
219
00:14:27,333 --> 00:14:29,233
[sighs] I can try.
220
00:14:30,100 --> 00:14:32,200
[Ron] All right, today,
we got something a little
different for y'all.
221
00:14:32,333 --> 00:14:35,600
Our guest today
is a Dr. James Tabor,
professor of-- what was it?
222
00:14:35,733 --> 00:14:38,067
I specialize
in emergent religions.
223
00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:39,867
Emergent religions.
224
00:14:40,067 --> 00:14:43,433
Let's talk about your interest
in this Branch Davidian cult.
225
00:14:43,567 --> 00:14:45,833
Yeah, I'm gonna stop you
right there, Ron.
226
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,600
I would propose that there's
no such thing as a cult.
227
00:14:49,733 --> 00:14:52,733
"Cult" is a judgment word used
to talk about somebody else's
228
00:14:52,867 --> 00:14:54,667
tightly-knit religious group.
229
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,833
Nobody in the world belongs
to what they see as a cult.
230
00:14:57,967 --> 00:15:00,767
[Ron] Yeah, but there are
certain traits you think of
231
00:15:00,900 --> 00:15:03,500
-when you think of a cult.
-[Tabor] That's true.
232
00:15:03,633 --> 00:15:07,800
The early Christians,
by our definition, belonged
to a cult.
233
00:15:07,933 --> 00:15:10,500
[Ron] So you're saying
Jesus was a cult leader?
234
00:15:11,267 --> 00:15:13,100
[Tabor] I wasn't saying it
exactly like that,
235
00:15:13,233 --> 00:15:17,767
but by the common definition
of "cult," yes.
236
00:15:17,900 --> 00:15:21,767
[Ron] Oh, that got
the phones ringing.
You done it now, Dr. Tabor.
237
00:15:23,167 --> 00:15:27,633
Excuse me.
My son is in Mt. Carmel,
and I need to talk to him.
238
00:15:28,633 --> 00:15:30,500
How did you get
past the barricade?
239
00:15:30,633 --> 00:15:34,233
Listen, I am not
altogether sure how he got
mixed up in all this mess,
240
00:15:34,367 --> 00:15:36,933
but I know
if I could talk to him,
if I could just speak to him,
241
00:15:37,067 --> 00:15:39,200
that I could get him
to come out.
242
00:15:39,967 --> 00:15:41,467
I'm sorry,
I can't let you do that.
243
00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:43,133
-Why not?
-Because I don't wanna give him
244
00:15:43,267 --> 00:15:46,400
or anyone in there the chance
to tie up loose ends.
245
00:15:48,133 --> 00:15:50,567
You think that they're
gonna kill themselves?
246
00:15:51,367 --> 00:15:52,600
Doesn't matter what I think.
247
00:15:53,367 --> 00:15:56,067
But I'm not gonna give them
a chance to say goodbye
either way.
248
00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:57,900
Please escort her
back behind the checkpoint.
249
00:15:58,067 --> 00:16:00,067
I just wanna know
if he's all right.
250
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:01,533
His name is David Thibodeau.
251
00:16:01,667 --> 00:16:03,433
The news reports
aren't releasing any names.
252
00:16:03,567 --> 00:16:06,667
I'm sorry, ma'am.
I don't have any more
information at this time.
253
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,700
I just need to know
if he's alive! Please!
254
00:16:14,267 --> 00:16:16,233
[Rachel] David,
your fever's not breaking.
255
00:16:16,367 --> 00:16:19,467
I'm afraid you're going to die
if we don't get you help.
256
00:16:21,633 --> 00:16:23,067
[David murmurs]
257
00:16:24,067 --> 00:16:25,867
It's all part of God's plan.
258
00:16:26,067 --> 00:16:29,067
No. I just lost my father.
I'm not gonna lose you, too.
259
00:16:30,067 --> 00:16:31,767
[phone rings]
260
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,900
-Hello?
-[Gary] Hello. Who's this?
261
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,733
-Cyrus.
-David's son.
262
00:16:42,867 --> 00:16:44,733
-Yeah.
-Well, hello, Cyrus.
263
00:16:44,867 --> 00:16:46,900
Can you put your dad
on the phone?
264
00:16:48,733 --> 00:16:50,967
Are you gonna kill me?
265
00:16:51,733 --> 00:16:55,833
[gulps] No.
No one's going to kill you.
266
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:57,833
[Steve] Cyrus?
267
00:16:58,633 --> 00:17:00,067
Thanks, buddy.
268
00:17:01,433 --> 00:17:03,067
Come here.
269
00:17:04,067 --> 00:17:05,267
Hello, this is Steve Schneider.
270
00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,233
Oh, hey, Steve.
Just wanted to give you
a quick call
271
00:17:09,367 --> 00:17:11,733
and let you know
that everybody arrived safe.
272
00:17:11,867 --> 00:17:15,267
Good. Well,
I hope that shows you
what we're about.
273
00:17:16,067 --> 00:17:18,067
We wanna see this
resolved peacefully.
274
00:17:18,133 --> 00:17:22,067
Of course.
I can tell you're the voice
of reason in there.
275
00:17:22,133 --> 00:17:25,567
I bet people count on you
to make sure they're
taken care of.
276
00:17:25,700 --> 00:17:27,700
[Steve]
I'm not sure that's true.
277
00:17:27,833 --> 00:17:31,400
Well, from what I hear,
you're the reason the group's
grown like it has.
278
00:17:31,533 --> 00:17:34,900
The reason that
the group has grown is
because of David's teaching,
279
00:17:35,067 --> 00:17:36,533
not because
of anything I'm doing.
280
00:17:36,667 --> 00:17:38,067
I think you're being modest.
281
00:17:39,633 --> 00:17:41,533
Knowing everything
you know now...
282
00:17:42,300 --> 00:17:45,467
are you happy you brought
all those people in there?
283
00:17:46,233 --> 00:17:48,233
I'm not sure
what you're driving at, Gary.
284
00:17:48,367 --> 00:17:52,733
Well, do you think
David has everyone's
best interest in mind?
285
00:17:57,633 --> 00:17:59,767
Yeah. I do.
286
00:17:59,900 --> 00:18:02,233
Because, forgive me
for saying this,
287
00:18:02,367 --> 00:18:05,500
but I can't help but notice
a trend that when God
comes to talk
288
00:18:05,633 --> 00:18:07,667
to modern-day prophets,
289
00:18:08,433 --> 00:18:10,633
it seems one thing
He always tells them to do
290
00:18:10,767 --> 00:18:13,367
is have sex
with lots of young women.
291
00:18:14,300 --> 00:18:17,333
Well, that's
a pretty cynical view
of what we're doing here.
292
00:18:17,467 --> 00:18:19,967
I'm not sure I appreciate
your tone with that one.
293
00:18:20,100 --> 00:18:23,333
-Then explain it to me.
-I'm not stupid.
294
00:18:23,467 --> 00:18:27,167
I know you're trying to create
dissent between me and David.
295
00:18:27,933 --> 00:18:30,133
You're right, I am.
'Cause you know what I think?
296
00:18:31,067 --> 00:18:33,300
I think David's dying,
297
00:18:33,433 --> 00:18:35,633
and I think he doesn't mind
bringing all of you with him.
298
00:18:35,767 --> 00:18:37,700
You know, Gary,
where you've got this all wrong,
299
00:18:37,833 --> 00:18:39,600
the thing that you're missing...
300
00:18:39,733 --> 00:18:41,300
is this is real.
301
00:18:41,433 --> 00:18:43,900
I do believe that David
is the Lamb of God.
302
00:18:44,067 --> 00:18:46,067
Not because of any trick
he's pulled,
303
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:50,067
but because of what I have seen
with my own two eyes.
304
00:18:50,167 --> 00:18:55,367
But he's lost his way, Steve.
I think you can see it.
305
00:18:56,533 --> 00:19:01,467
For years,
David has been prophesying
exactly what is happening here.
306
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,567
From the way
you came in, to the tanks,
the soldiers, everything.
307
00:19:04,700 --> 00:19:07,500
I can't figure out
another explanation
that makes any sense.
308
00:19:08,267 --> 00:19:11,800
For a minor weapons violation?
All this?
309
00:19:11,933 --> 00:19:13,900
You think
he's lost his way?
310
00:19:14,067 --> 00:19:18,233
Everything David has prophesied
has come true.
311
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:24,700
[sighs]
312
00:19:32,300 --> 00:19:34,600
Hey, guys,
stay away from the window.
313
00:19:34,733 --> 00:19:36,633
-It's not safe.
-[helicopter whirring]
314
00:19:42,633 --> 00:19:44,533
[Cyrus]
Why are they doing that?
315
00:19:44,667 --> 00:19:46,167
I don't know.
316
00:19:46,300 --> 00:19:48,200
Come on. Let's go.
317
00:19:49,233 --> 00:19:52,133
-[helicopter whirring]
-[Walter] What's going on?
318
00:19:54,667 --> 00:19:56,200
[sighs]
319
00:19:56,333 --> 00:19:58,433
What goes through
people's heads, you know?
320
00:19:58,567 --> 00:20:01,767
I mean, these HRT guys,
what makes grown men
act like that?
321
00:20:01,900 --> 00:20:04,767
They're mooning kids,
for God's sake.
322
00:20:04,900 --> 00:20:06,633
They're just built that way.
323
00:20:07,467 --> 00:20:10,767
The sad thing is, the Davidians
can't tell us apart from them.
324
00:20:15,133 --> 00:20:17,133
I need you to get me
a video camera.
325
00:20:18,867 --> 00:20:20,900
Ready?
How's my hair?
326
00:20:21,033 --> 00:20:22,633
It's about as good
as it's gonna get.
327
00:20:22,767 --> 00:20:24,567
-Knock it off.
-[laughs]
328
00:20:24,700 --> 00:20:26,233
All right. We're good.
329
00:20:27,633 --> 00:20:30,733
Hello. I'm Gary Noesner.
330
00:20:31,567 --> 00:20:33,267
The notorious.
331
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,800
And...
332
00:20:35,933 --> 00:20:37,367
this is my family.
333
00:20:38,867 --> 00:20:40,533
Yeah, that's my wife,
Carol, there,
334
00:20:40,667 --> 00:20:45,633
and my kids, Kelly, Katy,
and Rusty, and I love 'em.
335
00:20:45,767 --> 00:20:48,300
I'm sure you love your kids
the same way.
336
00:20:48,433 --> 00:20:52,033
And there is literally
nothing I wouldn't do to keep
my children safe.
337
00:20:53,533 --> 00:20:55,600
I'm sure we share that feeling.
338
00:20:57,733 --> 00:21:00,133
Now, any way you look at it,
this is a bad situation,
339
00:21:00,267 --> 00:21:05,067
but I wanna make sure
that your kids remain
safe through it all.
340
00:21:05,933 --> 00:21:08,067
So, please...
341
00:21:08,967 --> 00:21:10,833
please work with me.
342
00:21:11,633 --> 00:21:12,800
Help me keep your kids safe.
343
00:21:12,933 --> 00:21:15,133
[whirring]
344
00:21:16,767 --> 00:21:18,333
[baby crying]
345
00:21:19,333 --> 00:21:20,433
[whispers] Rachel?
346
00:21:22,467 --> 00:21:24,133
[baby crying]
347
00:21:24,933 --> 00:21:27,300
Hey, I got a weird question.
348
00:21:27,433 --> 00:21:28,733
Y'know, I...
349
00:21:30,700 --> 00:21:34,067
Uh... I'm not producing
any milk.
350
00:21:35,367 --> 00:21:39,067
And... I was wondering
if you had some to spare
for Mayanah.
351
00:21:39,167 --> 00:21:42,900
I'm having the same problem.
All the mothers are.
352
00:21:43,700 --> 00:21:47,133
-You are?
-Yeah. Sorry.
353
00:21:47,267 --> 00:21:50,633
-Oh, God.
-[Rachel sniffles]
354
00:21:50,767 --> 00:21:52,767
All right.
355
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,067
-[baby crying]
-Shh, shh, shh...
356
00:21:58,733 --> 00:22:00,667
[groans]
357
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:02,967
This universe is mine.
358
00:22:03,100 --> 00:22:04,267
[Walter]
I can't believe
Koresh likes this.
359
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,067
I am God here!
360
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:08,800
-Jesus.
-[chuckles]
361
00:22:09,867 --> 00:22:11,933
-I don't get this movie.
-Mm.
362
00:22:12,067 --> 00:22:14,333
I can't say it makes
my top 10 list either.
363
00:22:14,467 --> 00:22:16,933
[man on video] You're wrong.
You need to be led--
364
00:22:17,067 --> 00:22:18,100
-[phone ringing]
-Ready?
365
00:22:18,233 --> 00:22:20,167
-Yeah.
-[monitor beeps]
366
00:22:20,933 --> 00:22:23,100
-Hello?
-Hey, Gary, it's Steve.
367
00:22:23,233 --> 00:22:27,067
Um, we just wanted to say
thanks for sending
the videotape.
368
00:22:27,167 --> 00:22:28,633
We understand
what you're trying to do,
369
00:22:28,767 --> 00:22:31,267
and we really appreciate
you making that effort.
370
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,900
I just wanted you to know
that there's some people
out here
371
00:22:34,067 --> 00:22:36,133
who care about what happens
to you, that's all.
372
00:22:36,267 --> 00:22:38,067
Yeah. Um...
373
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,233
I do have one small problem,
374
00:22:41,367 --> 00:22:44,067
and I could really use
your help.
375
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,233
-What kinda problem?
-[sighs] So...
376
00:22:46,367 --> 00:22:48,400
I guess because of the stress
of all this,
377
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:54,300
the mothers
who are nursing have...
have stopped lactating.
378
00:22:54,433 --> 00:22:57,867
So... we need milk.
379
00:22:58,067 --> 00:23:00,833
For the babies.
Could you send some in?
380
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:05,067
-Let me talk to my bosses.
-Okay. Thanks, Gary.
381
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:06,500
You bet.
382
00:23:09,733 --> 00:23:13,433
No, I'm not throwing them
a picnic on national TV.
383
00:23:13,567 --> 00:23:15,867
They want milk,
they can come out and get it.
384
00:23:16,067 --> 00:23:20,467
Look. Usually the people
I negotiate with are backed
into a corner.
385
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,933
They need something.
And that's what gives me
leverage.
386
00:23:24,067 --> 00:23:27,600
But these people,
they just want us to go away.
387
00:23:27,733 --> 00:23:30,433
The only way I've been
able to motivate them
is with goodwill.
388
00:23:30,567 --> 00:23:34,233
But now, their babies need milk,
and we can give it to them.
389
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,333
This is something
we can build on.
We can use this.
390
00:23:39,900 --> 00:23:42,800
So, Steve,
I talked to my bosses,
391
00:23:42,933 --> 00:23:44,433
and they're gonna give you
the milk.
392
00:23:44,567 --> 00:23:46,367
Aw, Gary.
[sighs]
393
00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:48,900
Thank you.
I really appreciate that.
394
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:53,333
But there's one condition.
You're gonna have to send
some kids out.
395
00:23:56,067 --> 00:24:00,233
Wait. Um...
let me just make sure
I'm hearing you correctly.
396
00:24:01,067 --> 00:24:03,433
Um, you want us to trade...
397
00:24:04,733 --> 00:24:05,900
our kids for the milk?
398
00:24:06,667 --> 00:24:08,833
I wouldn't
really put it like that.
I'm just saying that--
399
00:24:08,967 --> 00:24:11,533
Look, I don't wanna
point out the obvious,
but if we send out our kids,
400
00:24:11,667 --> 00:24:13,167
then we won't need
the milk, will we?
401
00:24:13,300 --> 00:24:14,200
Steve?
402
00:24:14,333 --> 00:24:16,867
-Yeah?
-May I?
403
00:24:17,900 --> 00:24:20,333
Um, yeah.
David wants to talk to you.
404
00:24:21,100 --> 00:24:22,900
Yeah, how much milk
we talking here, Gary?
405
00:24:23,067 --> 00:24:24,633
-David--
-Two quarts per kid? Three?
406
00:24:24,767 --> 00:24:27,667
I mean, some kids
gotta be worth more than others.
407
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:32,400
Cyrus, my son, he's eight,
but he can fix any car engine
you put in front of him.
408
00:24:32,533 --> 00:24:36,233
That's gotta be worth,
what, at least three quarts
and a milkshake?
409
00:24:37,067 --> 00:24:38,167
You people.
410
00:24:38,933 --> 00:24:40,567
[handset clicks]
411
00:24:41,533 --> 00:24:42,567
[sighs]
412
00:24:42,700 --> 00:24:44,700
You shouldn't have done that.
413
00:24:44,833 --> 00:24:46,333
You know we have to work
with them.
414
00:24:47,467 --> 00:24:48,333
Yeah, well...
415
00:24:48,467 --> 00:24:50,867
good luck with that, Steve.
416
00:25:08,567 --> 00:25:12,267
Rachel? This is how
I'd like to ration out
the food and water.
417
00:25:13,067 --> 00:25:14,267
Can you take care of that?
418
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,300
No one's gonna be happy
with this.
419
00:25:16,433 --> 00:25:19,100
Well, if they don't like it,
they're welcome to leave.
420
00:25:20,767 --> 00:25:23,967
Steve. Steve,
did you get any news
about the milk?
421
00:25:24,100 --> 00:25:28,500
Yeah. I'm-- I'm--
I'm working on it. I promise.
422
00:25:28,633 --> 00:25:30,433
Hey, Steve,
have you had a chance
to talk to the FBI about Perry?
423
00:25:30,567 --> 00:25:34,267
Look, Thibs, just bury the body
like I asked you. Okay?
424
00:25:40,133 --> 00:25:42,067
-[Gary] You get bacon on yours?
-[Walter] Yeah.
425
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,933
Oh. I shoulda gotten bacon
on mine.
426
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,867
You know, that's how we stopped
the Clarksville prison riot.
427
00:25:51,067 --> 00:25:52,833
-With bacon?
-Oh, yeah.
428
00:25:53,900 --> 00:25:57,067
It was after day eight,
and we took a bunch of bacon
429
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,367
and threw it on some coals.
430
00:25:59,500 --> 00:26:02,467
The prisoners smelled it
and were instantly overcome
with hunger.
431
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,767
And I told them,
if they came out, they could eat
as much as them want.
432
00:26:07,100 --> 00:26:10,467
Never underestimate
what a hungry man will do
for bacon.
433
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:12,333
Shame the Davidians
don't eat pork.
434
00:26:12,467 --> 00:26:14,067
-It is.
-[chuckles]
435
00:26:16,267 --> 00:26:18,267
[man on radio]
We've got movement
outside the compound.
436
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,200
- All agents to their posts.
-Shit.
437
00:26:20,333 --> 00:26:22,067
Prepare to fire on command.
438
00:26:22,967 --> 00:26:24,533
[phone rings]
439
00:26:25,300 --> 00:26:27,233
-It's Steve.
-Steve! What's going on?
440
00:26:27,367 --> 00:26:29,533
Tactical says
someone exited the compound.
441
00:26:30,500 --> 00:26:31,433
Shit!
442
00:26:37,833 --> 00:26:39,733
It's Thibodeau. He's unarmed!
443
00:26:39,867 --> 00:26:42,567
He's just trying to bury a body.
Please don't shoot him!
444
00:26:42,700 --> 00:26:43,800
Okay, hang on, Steve.
445
00:26:43,933 --> 00:26:45,767
-Where's Decker?
-I don't know.
446
00:26:47,100 --> 00:26:49,467
[dispatcher] Copy sniper one,
sniper one, you got the loop.
447
00:26:55,433 --> 00:26:58,233
-[Wayne] Steve!
-Get out of my way!
448
00:26:59,467 --> 00:27:01,733
Thibs!
You gotta get back in here!
449
00:27:09,367 --> 00:27:10,867
Tell your man to stand down!
450
00:27:11,067 --> 00:27:13,333
This is a tactical decision.
It's not your call, Gary.
451
00:27:13,467 --> 00:27:15,367
No, no. He's just trying
to bury a body.
452
00:27:15,500 --> 00:27:17,200
And I'm telling you,
you don't know what
he's burying.
453
00:27:17,333 --> 00:27:18,667
That could be a bomb,
for all we know.
454
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:20,433
Damn it, I'm telling you,
the kid's unarmed.
455
00:27:20,567 --> 00:27:22,067
And I'm telling you,
you don't know that, Gary.
456
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,500
Now, I can't have people
strolling outside,
457
00:27:24,633 --> 00:27:26,833
walking around, looking
at our positions on things.
458
00:27:26,967 --> 00:27:29,133
The kid is trying to bury
one of his dead, Mitch.
459
00:27:29,267 --> 00:27:33,300
They let the ATF
take their wounded away.
Show 'em the same respect.
460
00:27:33,433 --> 00:27:36,900
They lost my respect
when they started killing
federal agents, Gary.
461
00:27:37,067 --> 00:27:39,333
All right, all right.
You want another Ruby Ridge
on your hands?
462
00:27:39,467 --> 00:27:41,167
-Yeah.
-Go ahead, shoot that boy.
463
00:27:41,300 --> 00:27:42,833
But just remember,
the ATF's not gonna be around
464
00:27:42,967 --> 00:27:45,200
-to take the blame this time!
-I don't give a shit!
465
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,733
Requesting permission
to take the shot. Over.
466
00:27:53,100 --> 00:27:55,400
[sniper]
I have the target in my view.
467
00:27:55,533 --> 00:27:57,500
[mutters]
468
00:27:59,067 --> 00:28:03,467
Repeat, requesting permission
to take the shot. Over.
469
00:28:09,267 --> 00:28:10,600
Stand down.
470
00:28:34,833 --> 00:28:36,300
Thank you.
Good morning, everyone.
471
00:28:37,067 --> 00:28:41,800
A few days ago, the FBI learned
that the Branch Davidians
ran out of milk.
472
00:28:42,567 --> 00:28:44,467
And they are no longer able
to feed their children.
473
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,267
Nice of them
to tell the truth for once.
474
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,133
Numerous attempts have been
made by the FBI
475
00:28:48,267 --> 00:28:50,500
to deliver milk
for their babies,
476
00:28:50,633 --> 00:28:52,100
but they have all been refused.
477
00:28:52,933 --> 00:28:57,300
It seems they are
using their own children
as pawns in this thing.
478
00:28:58,100 --> 00:29:00,267
David Koresh...
479
00:29:01,067 --> 00:29:03,267
let us bring milk
to those children.
480
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,600
Pawns, Gary?
We're using our kids as pawns?
481
00:29:06,733 --> 00:29:09,067
-Is that what you think?
-No, it's not.
482
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:10,900
Then why are they
saying that on TV?
483
00:29:11,667 --> 00:29:13,467
-I don't know.
-Your boss said
484
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,633
they have made attempts
to deliver milk.
485
00:29:15,767 --> 00:29:18,233
Now, when did that happen?
Because we've been here
the entire time,
486
00:29:18,367 --> 00:29:20,533
and I don't recall anyone
knocking on our door!
487
00:29:21,533 --> 00:29:24,700
Steve, look.
I wanna get you that milk.
That's the God's honest truth.
488
00:29:24,833 --> 00:29:27,467
But you're gonna have to let out
some of the kids in return.
489
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:29,900
I'm sorry, Gary.
That's not gonna happen.
490
00:29:30,067 --> 00:29:32,333
-[line clicks]
-[sighs]
491
00:29:35,067 --> 00:29:36,467
[sighs]
492
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,900
[reporter]
With cult leader David Koresh
493
00:29:39,067 --> 00:29:41,067
becoming less involved
in direct negotiations,
494
00:29:41,167 --> 00:29:44,533
authorities suspect
his wounds may be getting worse.
495
00:29:44,667 --> 00:29:48,767
Agents told cult members
that those not charged
with serious offenses
496
00:29:48,900 --> 00:29:51,533
eventually will be allowed
to return to the compound
497
00:29:51,667 --> 00:29:54,067
once it's cleared
of the crime scene.
498
00:29:54,133 --> 00:29:57,167
-Sheriff Harwell?
-Yeah?
499
00:29:57,300 --> 00:30:00,167
I'm Gary Noesner,
Head Negotiator, FBI.
500
00:30:01,033 --> 00:30:03,433
Mm. Can I help you?
501
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,733
-You mind?
-[murmurs]
502
00:30:09,067 --> 00:30:10,467
Well...
503
00:30:11,233 --> 00:30:15,667
when I can't get a guy
to trust me, I try and find
someone he will trust.
504
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,167
And David Koresh trusts you.
505
00:30:19,933 --> 00:30:20,833
Mm.
506
00:30:23,067 --> 00:30:24,533
I could really use your help.
507
00:30:28,467 --> 00:30:30,100
[phone ringing]
508
00:30:30,233 --> 00:30:31,567
[grunts]
509
00:30:32,433 --> 00:30:34,267
[ringing continues]
510
00:30:37,567 --> 00:30:41,867
-[groans] This is David.
-David, it's Sheriff Harwell.
511
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:43,567
[sighs]
512
00:30:44,333 --> 00:30:45,633
Hey, Jack.
513
00:30:46,867 --> 00:30:49,200
Sure is nice
to hear a friendly voice.
514
00:30:49,333 --> 00:30:52,633
David, I came down here today
515
00:30:52,767 --> 00:30:55,367
because I wanna make sure
that those babies get the
milk they need.
516
00:30:56,133 --> 00:31:00,300
Well, they said on the news
it was us refusing to make
this happen, Jack.
517
00:31:01,333 --> 00:31:02,667
It's just--
518
00:31:04,233 --> 00:31:07,067
these are our children
they're asking us to give up.
519
00:31:07,133 --> 00:31:08,700
I understand, but...
520
00:31:08,833 --> 00:31:12,133
it might not be the worst thing
to get the babies fed,
521
00:31:12,267 --> 00:31:16,067
and at the same time,
get some of your other kids
out of harm's way.
522
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,933
-You know what I'm saying?
-Yeah, I do.
523
00:31:20,067 --> 00:31:23,967
Good. Now, David, how much milk
do you think you need?
524
00:31:26,067 --> 00:31:28,700
-Six gallons will do.
-All right.
525
00:31:29,467 --> 00:31:31,500
Now, David, I'm gonna get ya
the six gallons,
526
00:31:31,633 --> 00:31:35,067
but you gotta keep
a level head in this while
we try to resolve this thing.
527
00:31:35,767 --> 00:31:38,633
Thank you, Jack.
You're a good man.
528
00:31:40,267 --> 00:31:43,233
Look, I just don't think
we should make it
so easy on 'em.
529
00:31:43,367 --> 00:31:45,300
Jesus. You think
we made it easy on 'em?
530
00:31:45,433 --> 00:31:48,067
They agreed
to send their kids out,
for Christ's sake.
531
00:31:48,167 --> 00:31:51,100
Right now, the only card
we have to play is
creating goodwill.
532
00:31:51,233 --> 00:31:54,800
No, it's not.
That's your only card, Gary.
533
00:31:54,933 --> 00:31:56,233
[sighs]
534
00:31:57,067 --> 00:31:59,333
[Gary] Look, the people
they're sending out won't talk.
535
00:31:59,467 --> 00:32:01,967
And we have no idea
what's going on in there--
536
00:32:02,100 --> 00:32:03,400
what they're planning to do.
537
00:32:03,533 --> 00:32:05,367
All right.
What's your point, Noesner?
538
00:32:05,500 --> 00:32:08,633
If we send the milk in
and bug it somehow...
539
00:32:08,767 --> 00:32:10,500
we'll have ears inside.
540
00:32:11,967 --> 00:32:16,533
That'll help me
with negotiations,
and Mitch, tactically.
541
00:32:27,067 --> 00:32:27,900
Do it.
542
00:32:49,500 --> 00:32:51,367
-Judy, you need--
-Shh.
543
00:32:51,500 --> 00:32:53,100
[whispers]
Just got her to sleep.
544
00:32:53,233 --> 00:32:54,533
What's going on?
545
00:32:55,467 --> 00:32:57,233
-Are there more people going?
-Yeah.
546
00:32:58,067 --> 00:32:59,733
And I want you and Mayanah
to be two of 'em.
547
00:32:59,867 --> 00:33:01,967
No. I already told you, Steve.
I can't go--
548
00:33:02,100 --> 00:33:04,433
Well, this is
not about you anymore.
This is about Mayanah.
549
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,167
You asked me to look out for her
like she was my own.
550
00:33:08,300 --> 00:33:11,267
Well, that's what I'm doing.
This is what that looks like.
551
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,067
I don't trust the people
out there, though, Steve.
552
00:33:13,167 --> 00:33:14,667
I don't trust them.
553
00:33:17,067 --> 00:33:17,967
I know.
554
00:33:18,933 --> 00:33:22,567
What about you?
I can't leave you.
555
00:33:24,333 --> 00:33:25,567
I should stay.
556
00:33:30,967 --> 00:33:33,733
-It's the right thing to do.
-[Judy sighs]
557
00:33:34,567 --> 00:33:38,067
Hey, Luke. I'm gonna miss
that inquisitive mind.
558
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,767
I want you
to take care of your mama.
All right, give me a hug.
559
00:33:42,833 --> 00:33:44,600
[David] Okay.
560
00:33:56,967 --> 00:33:58,133
All right.
561
00:33:59,133 --> 00:34:01,900
What are Judy and Mayanah
doing in the hallway?
562
00:34:02,067 --> 00:34:03,433
'Cause they're leaving.
563
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,467
Six gallons.
Bugs are in the crate.
564
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,500
Need a vest?
565
00:34:10,700 --> 00:34:12,667
They don't wanna shoot me.
566
00:34:14,100 --> 00:34:15,800
All right.
567
00:34:19,633 --> 00:34:21,600
[David grunts] Is that everyone?
568
00:34:25,433 --> 00:34:28,767
Um, Dave,
I'd like you to send out...
569
00:34:29,533 --> 00:34:31,333
Judy and Mayanah.
570
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:34,433
No.
571
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:36,600
I can't do that.
572
00:34:39,067 --> 00:34:40,633
[faintly] Okay.
573
00:34:43,567 --> 00:34:45,900
You know, I've never asked you
for anything.
574
00:34:48,667 --> 00:34:52,667
In all the years
I've known you, everything
I have done has been for you.
575
00:34:54,067 --> 00:34:58,500
Please, David.
I'm asking you this one thing.
576
00:35:00,067 --> 00:35:01,900
And I'll talk to Judy.
577
00:35:02,067 --> 00:35:04,833
She can just tell them that--
that Mayanah is my daughter.
578
00:35:09,567 --> 00:35:11,133
But, Steve...
579
00:35:12,233 --> 00:35:14,767
she's not your daughter.
580
00:35:14,900 --> 00:35:16,633
She's mine.
581
00:35:22,900 --> 00:35:24,800
Right.
582
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:26,767
[faintly] Right.
583
00:35:31,567 --> 00:35:32,767
I wanna stay with you.
584
00:35:32,900 --> 00:35:34,800
Oh, I wanna stay
with you, too, baby.
585
00:35:34,933 --> 00:35:36,800
-But God wants me to stay here.
-[child] Mommy...?
586
00:35:36,933 --> 00:35:40,700
And I need
to keep you safe, okay?
587
00:35:49,767 --> 00:35:52,067
You're the greatest gift
God ever gave me.
588
00:36:14,700 --> 00:36:16,200
[Steve] Let's go.
589
00:36:25,733 --> 00:36:28,900
Hey, guys. Right up here.
590
00:36:29,667 --> 00:36:31,500
-You got it? Come here.
-[child whimpers]
591
00:36:31,633 --> 00:36:35,633
Come here, buddy.
Come here. Come here.
Let's go. Come on with me.
592
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,867
How many guns you think
they're pointing at us
right now?
593
00:36:39,667 --> 00:36:42,467
-I bet a lot.
-[Wayne chuckles]
594
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:04,300
-Steve, hi. Wayne, Gary Noesner.
-Hey.
595
00:37:05,100 --> 00:37:07,533
-[Gary] Hi.
-Yeah, I've seen your video.
596
00:37:08,567 --> 00:37:10,933
But I'm sure
I'm much better-looking
in person, right?
597
00:37:11,067 --> 00:37:14,300
Let's just say that you got
a pretty good face for radio.
598
00:37:14,433 --> 00:37:16,400
[chuckling]
599
00:37:16,533 --> 00:37:17,433
Could we just
get this over with?
600
00:37:17,567 --> 00:37:19,200
Yeah, sure. I'm sorry.
601
00:37:19,333 --> 00:37:21,600
Steve, can I talk
to you for a minute,
just you and I?
602
00:37:22,433 --> 00:37:24,267
Yeah. It's okay.
603
00:37:30,167 --> 00:37:33,267
You need to know
your people are in a lot
more danger than you think.
604
00:37:35,867 --> 00:37:38,467
And in my experience, the longer
these situations go on,
605
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,833
the more erratic
people's behavior gets.
606
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:43,567
Yeah, we're seeing that
on our side, too.
607
00:37:43,700 --> 00:37:45,233
Uh-huh.
608
00:37:47,267 --> 00:37:49,867
-Can I ask you something, Steve?
-Yeah.
609
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,567
Whose child is Mayanah?
610
00:37:56,167 --> 00:37:58,267
We've all made
a lot of sacrifices to be here.
611
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:02,400
-She's David's child, isn't she?
-I made a choice.
612
00:38:02,533 --> 00:38:04,200
Judy made a choice.
613
00:38:06,900 --> 00:38:09,300
How is she, Judy?
I heard she was shot.
614
00:38:10,833 --> 00:38:12,567
-She's fine.
-She's fine?
615
00:38:12,700 --> 00:38:15,567
She has a bullet in her,
and her baby needs milk,
but she's fine?
616
00:38:15,700 --> 00:38:18,267
She's still in there.
Why is that?
617
00:38:19,233 --> 00:38:20,667
Because we made
a decision together--
618
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:22,867
No.
No, I think
619
00:38:23,067 --> 00:38:24,933
David was the one
who made that decision, not you.
620
00:38:25,067 --> 00:38:27,067
I think if it were up to you,
621
00:38:27,133 --> 00:38:30,167
Judy would be
in that vehicle right now,
with Mayanah.
622
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:33,867
Am I wrong?
623
00:38:36,500 --> 00:38:38,333
Now, look, Steve,
the thing you gotta realize
624
00:38:38,467 --> 00:38:41,800
is that you do have the power
to make your own decisions.
625
00:38:42,767 --> 00:38:46,867
Decisions for you,
for Judy, for Mayanah,
for everyone in there
626
00:38:47,067 --> 00:38:50,600
who is waiting
for someone to find
the courage to lead them out.
627
00:38:54,700 --> 00:38:56,400
You know, it's funny...
I can't tell you
628
00:38:56,533 --> 00:38:58,567
how many times
I wanted to leave this place.
629
00:38:59,333 --> 00:39:03,133
And all the fire ants
and the dust storms...
630
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,067
and David.
631
00:39:06,833 --> 00:39:09,967
Oh, you're right.
David's horrible.
632
00:39:10,967 --> 00:39:13,167
Self-centered, rude.
633
00:39:14,133 --> 00:39:18,233
I wish that God
would have chosen
634
00:39:18,367 --> 00:39:23,633
any other person on the earth
to speak through instead of him.
635
00:39:24,867 --> 00:39:26,533
But you know what?
636
00:39:27,300 --> 00:39:28,900
Despite everything
you're saying,
637
00:39:29,667 --> 00:39:33,167
no one's explained to me
what we did to deserve all this.
638
00:39:35,367 --> 00:39:38,300
You know, you have the power
to end this, too.
639
00:39:39,267 --> 00:39:40,933
How's that?
640
00:39:43,067 --> 00:39:44,800
You could just leave.
641
00:39:48,533 --> 00:39:50,300
We weren't bothering anybody.
642
00:39:58,700 --> 00:40:00,067
Yeah, I know.
643
00:40:04,067 --> 00:40:05,633
Thanks for the milk.
644
00:40:17,433 --> 00:40:18,733
[camera whirring]
645
00:40:19,633 --> 00:40:22,100
All right. We're rolling.
646
00:40:23,333 --> 00:40:24,533
[David] Okay.
647
00:40:26,167 --> 00:40:28,533
Say whatever you wanna say.
648
00:40:31,133 --> 00:40:32,633
Well...
649
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,867
I just wanna say
thanks a lot for killing my dad.
650
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:42,967
My dad's name was Perry Jones.
651
00:40:44,033 --> 00:40:46,033
[Rachel] He was an unarmed man.
652
00:40:47,333 --> 00:40:48,700
And...
653
00:40:50,867 --> 00:40:53,700
you just shot him
through the door, so...
654
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:57,233
thanks a lot.
655
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,333
-And thanks for the milk.
-Yeah, thanks for the milk.
656
00:41:13,533 --> 00:41:16,100
-[sniffles]
-[David sighs]
657
00:41:18,333 --> 00:41:19,700
[grunts]
658
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:24,900
Wow.
659
00:41:25,667 --> 00:41:27,133
Is it bleeding again?
660
00:41:27,267 --> 00:41:30,600
-It's all over the pillow.
-[David sighs] Well...
661
00:41:30,733 --> 00:41:33,667
it ain't nothing
for a tough guy like me.
662
00:41:34,533 --> 00:41:36,067
[chuckles]
663
00:41:36,833 --> 00:41:40,867
A lot of beliefs
people have may seem abnormal
or strange to other people,
664
00:41:41,067 --> 00:41:43,367
but that doesn't mean
it's not right, though.
665
00:41:44,367 --> 00:41:48,400
God speaks to me.
I have a message to present.
666
00:41:49,167 --> 00:41:50,900
And you may not believe that.
667
00:41:51,967 --> 00:41:54,100
If you don't believe that,
then believe this,
668
00:41:54,233 --> 00:41:56,933
irrespective of God
speaking to me.
669
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:02,100
See this here?
670
00:42:03,067 --> 00:42:07,333
This is my family.
May not be like your family.
671
00:42:08,167 --> 00:42:10,200
But you come pointing guns
672
00:42:10,333 --> 00:42:13,733
in the direction
of my wives and my kids?
673
00:42:14,500 --> 00:42:19,733
Damn it, I will meet you
at the door any time.
674
00:42:22,333 --> 00:42:24,900
I'm sorry
some of you guys got shot.
675
00:42:25,967 --> 00:42:27,700
But, hey...
676
00:42:29,967 --> 00:42:32,867
God'll have to sort that out,
won't He?
677
00:42:34,533 --> 00:42:35,833
[clicks]
678
00:42:38,100 --> 00:42:40,200
You still think
you can reason with this guy?
679
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,100
What are you gonna do with that?
680
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:00,267
Can't let this get out.
Makes him look too normal.
681
00:43:04,833 --> 00:43:06,200
[sighs]
682
00:43:06,333 --> 00:43:08,433
-[voices overlapping]
-[car horns honking]
683
00:43:10,533 --> 00:43:11,767
[sighs]
684
00:43:12,533 --> 00:43:14,467
[siren whoops]
685
00:43:15,667 --> 00:43:17,767
[voices yelling]
686
00:43:24,067 --> 00:43:26,067
Your boy's alive.
687
00:43:28,733 --> 00:43:31,933
Thank you. Thank you.
688
00:43:39,500 --> 00:43:40,933
Okay.
689
00:43:44,467 --> 00:43:50,567
-I wanted to thank you, Steve.
-For what?
690
00:43:51,333 --> 00:43:53,933
Taking care of everyone
when I was down.
691
00:43:55,733 --> 00:43:57,233
And for not leaving.
692
00:43:58,100 --> 00:44:00,833
I know you've been having
your doubts.
693
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:02,900
I understand.
694
00:44:03,933 --> 00:44:08,100
Heck... I've had my own, too.
695
00:44:18,167 --> 00:44:20,967
-You need something?
-Yeah.
696
00:44:22,700 --> 00:44:25,167
-Glass of milk would be nice.
-[laughing]
697
00:44:27,533 --> 00:44:31,433
-No, that's for the kids, David.
-I know it is,
698
00:44:31,567 --> 00:44:34,133
but I just escaped death
by the grace of God,
699
00:44:34,267 --> 00:44:37,667
and to be honest with you,
milk would do us good.
700
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:39,167
No one'll know, Steve.
701
00:44:39,300 --> 00:44:40,833
[Steve] Glass of milk,
I have to admit,
702
00:44:40,967 --> 00:44:42,167
would be pretty good
right about now.
703
00:44:42,300 --> 00:44:44,367
[David] That's a yes.
704
00:44:45,133 --> 00:44:47,433
Gonna be the best glass of milk
we've ever had.
705
00:44:55,667 --> 00:45:00,333
They don't give
a shit about those kids.
When are you gonna see it?
706
00:45:01,300 --> 00:45:02,767
I see it.
707
00:45:02,900 --> 00:45:05,633
The only thing people like this
respond to is pressure.
708
00:45:05,767 --> 00:45:08,467
Does it feel like they have
any pressure on them to you?
709
00:45:09,233 --> 00:45:12,767
-They sure don't.
-We been here, what, eight days?
710
00:45:12,900 --> 00:45:16,200
The only thing
we have to show for it
is, what, 19 people?
711
00:45:17,233 --> 00:45:19,567
We keep up at this rate,
we'll be here till Christmas.
712
00:45:20,533 --> 00:45:22,067
[sighs]
713
00:45:22,133 --> 00:45:23,833
You been letting Gary
do his thing.
714
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,100
How 'bout you let me do
a little of mine?
715
00:45:29,167 --> 00:45:33,100
[Ron] And Bubba might say,
"But ain't they messin' with
young girls in there?"
716
00:45:33,233 --> 00:45:35,233
And I got this to say to Bubba.
717
00:45:36,533 --> 00:45:40,500
The ATF has no jurisdiction
in matters of young girls.
718
00:45:40,633 --> 00:45:44,567
Or sex, or polygamy,
or anything else they're
talking about.
719
00:45:44,700 --> 00:45:46,933
It's none of their
damn business.
720
00:45:47,067 --> 00:45:48,633
Their business...
721
00:45:48,767 --> 00:45:53,200
is alcohol, tobacco,
and firearms. Period.
722
00:45:54,367 --> 00:45:58,367
And yes, David Koresh did marry
his wife when she was 14.
723
00:45:58,500 --> 00:46:00,333
And you might have feelings
about that,
724
00:46:00,467 --> 00:46:02,367
just like I have feelings
about that myself.
725
00:46:02,500 --> 00:46:05,433
I have a daughter.
I find the idea reprehensible.
726
00:46:05,567 --> 00:46:08,067
[Ron]
But according to Texas law,
727
00:46:08,133 --> 00:46:12,900
it is legal
to marry a 14-year-old
if her parents give consent.
728
00:46:13,667 --> 00:46:16,500
Which, again,
I am not saying is right.
729
00:46:17,267 --> 00:46:19,133
But I am saying,
if you have a problem with it,
730
00:46:19,267 --> 00:46:22,100
your problem is actually
with Texas law.
731
00:46:23,067 --> 00:46:24,067
Not David Koresh.
732
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:25,633
[engine stops]
733
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:28,733
[reporter]
The Branch Davidians have hung
a sheet outside the window
734
00:46:28,867 --> 00:46:30,367
saying they want the press.
735
00:46:30,500 --> 00:46:33,133
Reporters have their own take
on the sign.
736
00:46:33,267 --> 00:46:35,767
[all]
God help us, we are the press!
737
00:46:35,900 --> 00:46:38,667
[reporter 2] ...siege
against the Branch Davidians
in Waco, Texas.
738
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:40,933
And raise similar questions
about the--
739
00:46:41,067 --> 00:46:43,833
I just don't understand
why they won't let us
talk to them.
740
00:46:43,967 --> 00:46:45,633
[reporter] Ma'am,
if your son were here right--
741
00:46:45,767 --> 00:46:47,200
No, no. Go back.
742
00:46:47,333 --> 00:46:49,233
[man] ...web surrounded
this house...
743
00:46:49,367 --> 00:46:50,900
[reporter] What would you want
to tell him?
744
00:46:51,067 --> 00:46:52,600
If you want to look
in the camera and speak to him,
745
00:46:52,733 --> 00:46:53,667
what would you
want to say to him?
746
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:54,967
Do you know her?
747
00:46:55,733 --> 00:46:57,433
That's my mom.
748
00:46:57,567 --> 00:47:00,067
Dave, honey...
749
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,367
I know the last time
you were home, I didn't
listen very well.
750
00:47:06,133 --> 00:47:09,633
I-- I got my issues
with the Bible and stuff.
751
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:12,867
And I know that you got
a group in there
752
00:47:13,067 --> 00:47:16,100
that you really care about,
and they're like family.
753
00:47:17,967 --> 00:47:21,500
But I'm your family.
And you're the only family
I've got.
754
00:47:21,633 --> 00:47:25,800
[sniffles] And if anything ever
happened to you, I don't know
what I'd do.
755
00:47:25,933 --> 00:47:27,200
[sobs]
756
00:47:27,333 --> 00:47:29,300
Thank you.
757
00:47:29,433 --> 00:47:31,900
Dave, please? Come out.
758
00:47:32,067 --> 00:47:36,067
And I promise I'm gonna be
a better listener, okay?
759
00:47:37,533 --> 00:47:40,067
I promise
I'm gonna be a better mother.
760
00:47:42,067 --> 00:47:44,400
So, please, just come on out.
761
00:47:45,633 --> 00:47:47,933
[Balenda sniffles, sobs]
Thank you. Thank you so much.
762
00:47:48,067 --> 00:47:49,100
[pops]
763
00:47:49,900 --> 00:47:53,067
-[David] Everyone stay calm.
-[Rachel] What happened?
56167
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