Original subtitles

and when I hear the cannons roar

and the the bloody shites of war...???

well my old man was uhh in charge

was uhh in apartment

around to see about a job in Dublin

because they don't even

have a store in Dublin... yeah?

right and what... I don't even

they was doing some kind of

no he was in the same old

no but it's the same kind of

fucking... nowhere... fucking

I'm nowhere now and I will

be nowhere when I die

it's a joke... you know what I mean?

it's like they said... it's a ??? you know?

but I mean like I'm clinically insane

Shane's decided that he's

clinically insane because he has...

I haven't decided... I remembered

you know what I mean?

you remembered you were?

and I'll be... like it's not that...

that's just the first time they did it

yeah?

'bout seven countries now... you know?

you're clinically insane in 7 countries?

yeah

like doing... doing you know like... tests

you know... psychological tests on ???

he had a brilliant brain I mean

that's all I know

just didn't have it a few...

a few billion cells later ehh?

I started off as a healthy, fucking

Tipperary farm boy you know what I mean?

I came over here and degenerated

into a... into a... into a...???

and a drunkard and drug user and thief

it was very very difficult

to get employment in Ireland

in the 60's you know... it

was very difficult indeed

uhh... there was very

little employment really

many many people had to go abroad

to either England or somewhere else

America or somewhere else

to actually earn a living

and... uhh... Maurice was one of those

really so we uhh we had to go to London

we started off in Ealing

which I hated with a great hatred

having... coming from Dublin

it was a real dreary London suburb

we tried to leave Shane in Ireland

as much as possible when he was young

during his holidays

he always returned to Ireland

the house my mother was brought up in

and I was brought up in

for a large part of my life

is a very remote townland

yeah... called Carney Commons

like... which is in the parish of Finnoe

it's near the town of Borrisokane

that's my home

my official home

that's where I live when I'm not

staying in London because of business

and the band being based in London

although they're all Irish... yeah?

and. . . uhh. . . when I'm

not touring. . . you know...

his heart and soul always lay

in Ireland in Tipperary

that's where his spiritual home was

it's where... you know... the whole

his heart was there really

I came from a musical family

we always sang and... and

most people played an instrument

and my mother was... uhh... you

know... one of those ???

for singing and dancing and

singing in Irish as well

my memory from the earliest days is a

house of music and song and story-telling

they all... practically all played

instruments. . . you know... concertina

mellodion, piano... what you

you know... name it they played it

and... and so therefore it was also

what I would call an open house

I suppose really it was a house

that everybody gravitated to

he was singing from a very early age

and acting as he was singing songs

do you know... do you remember

the Hole In The Bucket?

remember that song?

Oh Lord!

and he was only two-and-a-half

he was that fast

and it was a scream to look at him

yeah... he's amazing

okay when I started going to school

in England like... you know

like... uhh... that was back in '87

right... you know... like

that was a horrific

fucking change of. . . uhh. . . life

we moved down to Tunbridge Wells

we had quite a nice little place there

and after a while there

we... we decided to go to London

to the famous Barbican

where all the trouble

broke loose... you know because

Therese wasn't able to handle

the built up aspects of London you know

it's on a huge scale

and the Barbican was a

massive sort of fortress

the family all became

very emotionally disturbed

it was a situational

disturbance basically

we had loads of good times

don't get me wrong... right? yeah?

but at a certain stage of

the game... right? yeah?

like uhh... yeah... I mean I... I started

doing the normal teenage

things... you know

and I got knicked... you know?

he was getting into trouble

at his school... you know?

he was getting into trouble there

for various things and then he...

I think he was doing a bit of

drug-taking at that stage

the doctor had put me on Valium

100mg a day

because I had a nervous breakdown

after my mum had one... yeah?

that's a heavy dosage

it's not as heavy as what he had her on

she was on real zombie stuff... yeah?

I used to go out every morning

and kick her to see if she was alive

you know what I mean... right?

I had to go into the drug

ward of a mental hospital and

uhh... I stayed in the hospital

called Bethelehem... like

the main... one of the big ones

it's the main one in London

he overdid the drugs

no two ways about that

I mean that was the case... I mean

so he rebelled... really...

at that stage... you know?

perhaps he did it a bit earlier

than people used to rebel

at that time in those days. . . you know?

Shane gave up the formal education system

at the invitation of the establishment

at around twelve or so

he'd been caught with cannabis

or some nonsense like that

and... umm... we were invited around

to the... uhh... headmaster's study

a fellow called Ray... a right wanker

and... uhh... we went down there

anyway... the two of us

and... uhh... he talked about you know

the terrible crime that

Shane had committed

I listened to all this... and... uhh

and I said, "What do you

want to do about it?"

and he said, "Well, I'd prefer if

Shane didn't come back next term."

I said, "Fine, you know,

I don't want him to come back

to this stupid, fucking

cunt of a place, anyway. " you know?

that was more or less how it ended

and I went off

do you want to go back and

see your old teacher?

what do I want to... Spellman?

no I don't think I have to

my dad did a pretty good job in there

I think he's probably exiled himself

to somewhere far away... you know?

well I think he had him up...

up on the... fucking thrown against

the wall... you know?

you know shouting and cursing

and being a racist prick you know

I mean he had a happy childhood

I mean uhh... the education

didn't spoil that in any way

he just didn't contribute to his

development in any way

we got on basically that

I got kicked out of school

because I was such an outrageous

little turd in England... right?

I was obviously turning into

a complete scumbag

right... you know what I mean?

the more time I spent

in England right... yeah?

right... yeah... you know what I mean?

yeah? like... from being a decent person

yeah... like uhh... you'd notice it

tell us about uhh... falling in love...

where'd you meet?

in a pub

why did I ask that question. . .

why did I ask that question

his best friend was a friend of mine

- Spider the tin whistle player - oh I tell ya

and it was because of him

that we kept meeting

and then there was one day

I just looked at him and saw beauty

where before I'd seen hideous

-arrogance and... - obnoxiousticity

I think he's such a strong personality

and has such a sense of... he's so spirited

and he has so much a sense of adventure

and so much fearlessness around

um... around doing things in public

doing things like going on stage

starting bands

umm... going out dressed up

in all kinds of weird clothes

and getting into all kinds of trouble

things that I wouldn't have

had the nerve to do myself

that's... that's what I find so appealing is

that you know... umm...

the sheer nerve...

and the... and the exuberance...

and the imagination

what makes you happy?

you do

how do I make you happy?

it can't be explained in words... you know

maybe in Irish it could be... you know?

it's a larger vocabulary... you know? like

- hmm? - anything?

can we go in there?

hey... look at this... this bike

this is uhh... a fifty pound

bag for a junkie... right?

all he needs is a hacksaw... right?

take that bike up sell it tomorrow

what you wanna be a star?

i'll pay you back I'll be a star

yeah why not?

I'm all that stands between the

fact of fucking Irish culture and like

and uhh... the life of Irish culture

when I fell in love with him was when

I actually saw his sensitive side

and that was quite early on

that was... you know... ummm

umm... maybe I was about 20?

so it would mean 14 years ago

sometimes I think he romanticizes me in

the same way that he romanticizes Ireland

or it's almost like the me that he

writes about doesn't really exist

and I'm a kind of an imaginary figure

like I'm not gonna ??? or something

it's obvious that it's not really me

it's a... yeah... romantic ideal

I think he's an idealist

taken to an extreme

he's not really as much of a realist

as he might like to think

we knew he was brilliant at writing

and English and all that kind of thing

and Maurice said, "I suppose you will

probably earn your living as a writer. "

He said, "I will, Dad, but not

in the way you're talking about. "

"I'll earn my living," he said,

"through music, writing through music,

because that's the way you

communicate with people now-a-days. "

"It's a much better form of,

lighter form of communication. "

I remember him saying that to me

you're a little bit pissed

are you? a little bit?

mostly

you're enjoying yourself

yeah

I suppose you see I thought

it might be more in the book form

rather than the... umm... sound form

but uhh... you know really

that's before twelve

I knew around twelve it wasn't

going to be that because

there was Bob Dylan blowing one ear out

and the Grateful Dead blowing the other

and so I knew there was

something going on there

well take my number and give me a ring

well give us your number then

you got a pen and paper?

yes I have...

now here you are

i want your phone number

do you want me to hold your

drink while you're at it?

I mean once I was out of

school I was alright you know

and I could use all the things

that were good about London

like the drugs and the clubs

and the loose women and

the Pistols were playing really good

rock and roll, hard rock and roll

and what's more they

were my generation

and what's more they were singing

about how boring London was

and... like... they were

being totally nihilistic

and that was the way I felt when I

go out and see 'em out of the bin you know

I was working at a shop

it wasn't a shop it was a stall

a market stall at the

end of Gerard Street

in Soho, in London

and one day Shane walked

into the stall and... like he was

uhh... he was slightly

shook looking is what I'd say

he had matted long hair

down to his shoulders

and heavily caked with one thing or other

I don't know what

and he looked a bit dazed

he said that he had... uhh... been

in hospital you know

I knew he was on pills or something

like that but he was lucid

whenever we started talking and... uhh...

he just started to hang around the shop

as soon as he discovered what

was happening in the punk scene

which was, "trust yourself,"

whatever talent you thought you had

and if uhh... you felt you could make

get out there and do it

and Shane did

there's one punk... the Sex Pistols

the rest of them are rubbish

I'm not interested

what's more I probably wouldn't

have been that interested in them

if Johnny Rotten hadn't been so

bloody obviously Irish you know

and made a big noise about it and

made such anti-English records... yeah?

no future

in England's dreamin'

punk was speed-fueled which was why

everybody was so bloody obnoxious you know

spitting in your face

and getting aggressive

and fighting and all the rest of it

but you know that was the scene

the youth scene

mods punks and so it was all speed

and that was... that would have

been the general drug speed and drink

God save the queen...

she ain't no human being...

she's made you a moron

potential h-bomb

he uhh... started producing a fanzine

the first I heard of his creative bent

and uhh... Shane came in with his fanzine

and started selling that

and then the next thing I knew

he was putting a band together

myself and my partner

in the shop at the time

decided we would try and manage the Nips

as they were then called

well actually they were called

the Nipple Erectors

but we had a problem in

that people didn't want

Nipple Erectors on posters

it was supposed to be sexist

which I could never understand

since everybody's got them

but umm... we had to shorten it

from the Nipple Erectors to the Nips

he's well-known as a very good lyricist

a poet even for the

Pogues stuff that he writes

but even the stuff that he

was writing for the Nips

was um... even if you had

taken it out of the pop context

and put an air to it

it still would have been...

it could have been a Pogues song you know?

things like Gabrielle you know?

let's go down to the old West End

you know? like we used to do

when you were my girlfriend...

take the 73 to the city...

you sitting there looking so pretty

the crap I wrote for the Nips

I could write in my sleep

you know it was pop you know

you know I mean... like

you know... I mean like

it was a...

it was a teenage anthem you know

I've never stopped writing adolescent crap

it's just some people can't tell

the real... you know... pop

from the real thing you know?

he always said he wanted to be a

pop star always you know and he

said he wasn't going to hang around

he was going to be a pop star

and when he first like... when

the Noisey Boyseys first began

which later became the Pogues

I remember we went down

to see the first gig

must have been just about the

first gig down in Steve Stanger's club

and there was us and one or two others

and umm... a bunch of squatties I think

who were just back from northern

Ireland who were all eating chips

and proceeded to pelt the

stage with chips throughout

and there was Shane up on the stage

sort of singing Paddy Works On The Railroad

and and Irish songs

it should have occurred to me

it was so fucking obvious

a fucking thing to do

to fucking play really good

Irish songs to a young audience

you know the Pogues could never

have been an Irish band indigenously

it could never have happened in Ireland

I'm... I'm absolutely certain of that

it would never have happened from

within the island

and the Pogues needed to happen

from the Diaspora if you like

in Mary Robinson's uhh memorable phrase

it... it... it uhh needed to happen from...

it's like there's two Irelands

the people who live on the island

and there's people who went away

or who are second generation

and very often uhh... you know

that gives a different point of view

on the culture

on what it is to be Irish

he affected a lot of Irish

people in London at the time

for the better in a huge way

just by making it possible

to kind of claim back

umm some sense of pride in being Irish

because like putting it into context

you had the Balcombe street seige

you had bombs going off

right left and center

it was... there was a lot of

racism in London at the time

and a lot of anti-Irish talk

uhh every time there was another bomb

so for him to turn around and

kind of celebrate his Irish culture

was a... was a... was a very strange thing

and... and to give voice to

his experience of it was...

like in the lyrics and when he began

writing the songs and that was what was

such a huge revelation with the Pogues

all I did was take extremely

old-fashioned Irish music

proper Irish music

paeans or old-fashioned... you know

in terms of people like

Horslips and Clancy

and Diarmaid yeah... right

and like uhh you know

like you know... you know the music you know

ceilidh music and you know jigs reels

like lyrics about

drinking fucking fighting you know

like uhh you know romantic lyrics about

love and rebellion everything else yeah?

I am going I am going where the

streams of whiskey are flowing

it's not exactly an Erin moor

in the county Galway

one summer's evening

in the month of May

I met a damsel

both fair and handsome

she nearly took my breath away

is it now?

the day the record arrived

in uhhh... you know

it didn't leave the turntable for days

it was the most exciting thing that

had aired in a long long time

you must remember this is the early 80's

where the charts were full of

extremely bland and mechanical music

ahh... it looked like you know... after the

after the sort of the first

uhh... blossom of the punk movement

uhhh... it seemed to all go

horribly wrong very quickly

uhh... the music went backward

retreated back into its

sort of soporific state

so it's almost hard

really now in retrospect to say just

how exciting that was to hear an album

played by human beings with

real instrument and so on

it was revolutionary for its time

the stuff we play like is... is uhh

well it's more fucked up basically

you know because like... because like

you are more fucked up

if you live in London than

if you live in uhh...

you're not more fucked up than if you

live in Belfast or

somewhere like that obviously

but you're more fucked up than uhh...

if you live in a nice little town

in Tipperary or somewhere like that

Elvis Costello had produced

my record Captains and Kings

so I brought Elvis to see the Pogues

which were obviously the

happening band in London at the time

and I realize in retrospect actually

that what happened that night is

that Elvis fell in love twice over

once with the Pogues and then

with the Pogue's bass player

all that happened I think

instantaneously I realize now and

and he went on to produce

Rum Sodomy and the Lash

is it hard to produce uhh...

this kind of sound?

no no uhhh... people

got the uhh... have a

misapprehension that the band can't play

the band can play really well

the sound's changed because Costello

came in and produced it right?

and the way he produces is like

really kind of clinical

and kind of like you know?

the best way to record us is

live you know in the studio

with as few takes as possible on the vocal

but Costello believed in hundreds of takes

making me do the vocal hundreds of times

and then kind of splitting

it up from bits of all that

to make up a Frankenstein monster

yes a word out here and

a word out there. . . you know?

he'd drop in between uhh... you know?

despite the fiddles uhh. . . like

Frankenstein productions like you know?

the raw energy comes through

you know what I mean?

it's a great album because

it's great fucking music

it's a great band you know what I mean?

it's great music you know what I mean?

and it wasn't all written

by me you know what I mean?

i mean half was written by me... yeah?

and like... you know... it's a great band

in the peak of their... of their... of their

of their uhh... of their uhh...

they're in their peak

you know what I mean? you know?

when I'm at home... you know?

I... uhh... watch telly... listen to music

read books... and play the guitar... yeah?

and... uhh... every now

and then I get an idea

you find a riff that

sounds good... like... yeah

and then a melody suggest itself

but really... it's just that

I don't know how it happens

it's like Mozart said...

it's music from heaven

or hell... depending on whether you

like it... you know?

either... uhh... why aren't there shares

why hasn't the church got...

oh yeah the church have got shares

but what are they trading under?

you know what I mean?

is it orange juice or uhh... light metals

err... uhh... uhh... is Bill Gates a

fucking front for uhh... for uhh... El Papa?

is Bill Gates the new Jesus Christ?

after Rum Sodomy and the Lash uhh...

the band obviously altered a little

in as much as I came

in later on in that album

and then Terry Woods came in

and then uhh Darrel Hunter

replaced Cait O'Reardon on bass

so the sound was changing

and developing and

and different... different elements

were coming into play

I thought he was an

incredible lyric writer

great singer

and the songs were really beautiful

and then the next album came out

If I Should Fall With Grace...

is that right?

umm... and I just thought some

of the lyric writing on

that was uhh... was unbelievable

umm... kind of head and shoulders above

what anyone else was doing

umm... it had uhh... a simplicity

to it that was just

and beauty about it was

just extraordinary I thought

the long gap between

Rum Sodomy and the Lash and

If I Should Fall From Grace With God

which was a lot to do with

uhh record company problems

which are far too boring to go into

but it delayed recording

a new album for awhile

but in retrospect that was the best thing

that could have happened

because we had... we'd use that time

to develop a kind of new sound

well a bigger version of the same sound

and to just build confidence

in what the band were doing

there was... uhh... energy in

in the way that the way that he wrote

uhh from my point of view

i was... i was writing very different

sorts of lyrics I think

and for a lot of different reasons

from... from as early on as I

can remember actually

umm I was trying to make an effort

in some way... to show that I could write

and that was the difference

between I think me and Shane

and that's what made

Shane such a great writer

was his complete effortlessness

umm... it just looked like it

just sort of dropped out of him

and uhh... and there wasn't

a bad line amongst it

it's just... just beautiful stuff

what? has Mickey gone home?

this is where Francis Bacon used to drink

he was Irish and queer

and a right wanker I think

hello there!

Pascal

C'mere you bastard

[speaking Greek?]

this is Michael this is the

uhh... proprietor and

and this is Pascal...

the beautiful proprietoress

hostess from... uhh... from Greece

what do you want?

I should never stop telling you

the drinks are incredibly

wonderful... sorrowful

- shut up you asshole - uhh

like singing acting... like they invented

tragedy they invented comedy

and tonight's tragi-comedy

is just about to commence

when I was a sponge-diver

I dived 14 million feet into

the sea to pick up a sponge

and did you use it?

I sold it to an American

his music is very spontaneous

and it comes... it seems

to just flow through him

when he's writing music

it seems that he has music in his head

and it sort of comes through...

and I think that the state of mind

he's in when hes when he's writing

is quite detached from

what we would think of as

a normal day-to-day way of functioning

he's not logical... he doesn't umm

he doesn't try to write music

he allows music to be...

to come through him

I mean I think... I think Shane is a

kind of master at... uhh

the opening lines of songs... are

always you know uhh... unbelievably good

you know Christmas eve babe

in the drunk tank

every piece got completely erased

beginning to end by the media

every note okay? like I mean apart

from a few notes by Jim

I mean a little riff

by Jim you know... okay?

but I'm saying like the orchestral

arrangement was by me... yeah? you know?

Steve Lilywhite was talking about using us

uhh... a machine could do it

you know what I mean?

I said, "No way!"

it's gotta be the real thing yeah

we almost had a number one single with

Fairytale of New York... yeah

but the Pet Shop Boys had other ideas

with their Elvis Presley cover

uhh... but even they would

have to have conceded I think

that morally we were the

number one record that week

uhh... it's the greatest Christmas

song since White Christmas you know uhh

and Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas

those three... they're the alltime greats

I still think it's an extraordinary record

coming as it did out of nothing

and even though the first two

albums had primed people for kind of

what to expect with the Pogues

I don't think anyone for a second

expected the riches of

Fairytale of New York

I loved the boat... yeah?

you don't get treated like a piece of shit

like you do on an airplane

unless you're a fucking executive

you know? like... yeah?

I liked that boat quite a lot... yeah?

there or there or over there?

no... how about there or there?

double gin and tonic

lots of ice slice of lemon

glad to meet you

I'm so glad you made it

how you doing? how you doing man?

you got your hair... your beard cut off

aye... sort of... yeah

the impression I think a lot of people get

is that... you know...

it's Shane MacGowan... crazy guy

there were fifteen crazy guys

the crew as well

we fell around the world

I don't know how we got from A to B

we were all piss drunk

all of the time

I never envied uhh... Joey

Cashman's job as tour manager

I thought that was...

that must be...

what's the worst job you ever had?

I was the Pogues tour manager

yeah... great

there's no such thing as the good old days

oh no... that's not true... Joey no

that's not true

as tour manager I would be...

I would organize the

rooms and that at reception

and uhh guys who were particularly drunk

so I asked them to stay outside

so that the hotel people wouldn't see them

before we could at least get

our keys and get into the hotel

so... I was in the middle of doing that

and there were quite a few bands staying

there and I heard a bit of a commotion

I turned around and... uhh

Shane was being umm... helped in

by Big Charlie and somebody else

they had an arm each over their shoulders

and he had uhh... his leather

trousers were down around his knees

he had no underpants on

and they were dragging him along

his feet were just going like that

and uhh... I just said to

the receptionist you know

"What kind of a hotel is this?"

you know... what are these people

as if I had nothing to do with them

do you want to hear what it says?

Shane MacGowan and the Pogues

and the Pogues is in the same size

letters as my name for some reason... right?

you know Shane MacGowan's influence on

Irish music cannot be overestimated

I don't think it's true to say

that all of us were drinking too much

but certainly for some people in the band

alcohol had become a major problem

MacGowan's deceptively simple songs

I'd like to know what's

so bloody simple about them

try and play them... cunt

contain worldly words of life

and lifetimes of experience

and he compresses all manner

of human passion into his work

desperate DESPERATE to communicate

everything he has lived and found

down to the last ounce of

commitment and urgency

if you had issues with alcohol

there was no better... trust me

there was no better place in the world

to bury them and hide them

than in the Pogues you know?

because the whole culture

that built around the band

uhh... positively you know... demanded it

a couple of nice ones

when you're that age

that's what you want to do

you want to um...

you want to drink too much

and take too many drugs

and stay up all night

and behave badly

and of course you... know they

were just having a good time

I knew he drank alot

but it wasn't so much that he drank alot

but that he seemed to be doing it

more out of desperaton at that point

more as a way of avoiding people

than as a way of joining in

whereas when I first met him

he was a very sociable sort of person

and he would drink umm... with people

you know with me or with whoever

when it got really bad

I could see him like...

put down a bottle of gin

before he went on stage just to umm

just to make himself feel

able to get on stage I think

I love Them

I love the dance stuff

I love the dance stuff... Astral Weeks

- I like all the albums - I love Them stuff

- I like all his music - Astral Weeks

I think it was a pivotal moment

because they made that

move from being in control

to being a part of somebody else's agenda

and Shane certainly changed at that point

he seemed quite disillusioned and cynical

about the whole business of

of being on the road

about performing

it seemed to have taken

a huge toll on his psyche

he seemed to have no

space to just be himself

they started to act like rock stars

they started to think like rock stars

they were great musicians

I mean... like... so what?

you know what I mean? you know?

I mean... uhh... you know

but I mean... like... uhh...

that doesn't give you any... rights

you know what I mean? you know?

above any other human being

you know what I mean? you know?

there was a... there was... umm

and underlying sort of resentment

against Shane in the band

because all the media would

want to speak to Shane... all right?

umm... and... of course

it was alot more than that

let's just say one...

one particular subject

and they... they liked

to think about themselves

as a nine piece band

where everybody had an equal input

and equal importance

so... sometimes I felt that... umm

people were objecting to his opinions

not based upon his actual opinions

but simply because they just got fed up

with it being

Shane Shane Shane Shane

it was never my band

we were a democratic band... you know?

and then in the end

like I wasn't involved

in the democracy anymore

the system was to blame... yeah?

we thought we could beat the system

and we couldn't

we had set out to beat the system

they said... you know... we don't

really want you to go... you know?

I mean... we need you

I mean all this... you know?

you know... give us a

couple more years... I mean

you know... uhh... you know

you know... I didn't like...

because I don't want to fight or anything

you know... I mean

I was easy persuaded to

carry on... you know

things will get better... you know

but things got worse

somehow from the outside

there was this farcical idea

that the Pogues were allowing

Shane MacGowan to kill himself

that in fact we might

even have welcomed the idea

and nothing could be farther from the truth

we cared very deeply about Shane

and still do

ultimately we're his best friends

I mean... you know...

he might speak ill of us now

all these years later occasionally

but he doesn't really mean it

it was like a bunch of guys

who just cared about each very much

but like there

there always comes a point

where you can only help

somebody so much

I wanted to make an Irish

album for the Ulsterhouse (?) kids

so if you get out ???

and you listen... it's a piece of love

you'll find that all

my tracks are in the house beat (?)

the touring was getting to me

and the... uhh... constant

arguments and stuff... you know?

we were starting to sound

tired and... uhh... jaded

yes... you know... i mean it was

sounding like we should call it a day

you know

we should have... like... called

it a day at that stage... yeah

if we'd left it at that note

we would have got out a bit

graciously... you know

but making Hell's Ditch

was a ridiculous mistake

basically the problem

is... like... the singing...

the singing isn't as good as it could be

the playing isn't either actually

but the singing is definitely very...

my voice is deteriorating

you know I remember seeing

the uhh... seeing the Pogues

in some festival in France

the show was falling to... falling to bits

umm... Shane didn't know

what songs they were playing and it was

you know it was one of those kind of

those kind of classic uhh... moments

and the... the worse Shane became

the more the audience kind of adored him

and until the concert was

pretty much unlistenable

they were playing some horrendous kind

of Rolling Stones cover

or something like that

and... uhh... really

pandering to this audience

in this way and I found that

from a band that could be so great

quite kind of sickening to watch actually

and I find that element... I always found

I always found that element of the Pogues

kind of disappointing in a way

because they could be so great

you know but then again

at the sound check of that concert

Shane was in better form and came on

and just sang the song with

his hands in his pockets

singing this song at the sound check

and I've never heard anything so beautiful

it was just. . . you know. . .

it was just unbelievable

Hell's Ditch was my own sort of uhh

crash landing if you like

I knew at that point that I had

a serious problem with it and that

it was going to be a tough one to beat

because it's the equivalent of being in a

brewery and trying to stop drinking

being on the road with

the Pogues... you know

but that's not to say that there wasn't

personal responsibility involved

I was prepared to take

the personal responsibility

but at that point in my life

I found it very very difficult

it was just easier to succummb

to the... to the drink... you know

I was always saying, "We gotta

stop touring so much."

you know what I mean... you know?

but they wouldn't... they didn't

agree with me and so on... you know

so they obviously didn't think

they were paying a high price you know

if they think they paid a high price now

you know... I hate to say I told you so...

did we sack Shane MacGowan

there is the question

no... it's just never as simple as that

what actully happened was

it was becoming very obvious that the band

wanted to carry on playing at something

like the level we were playing

and Shane was getting more and more

disenchanted with that and wanted to

spend more time at home

and mainly the way he was telling us that

was by the inconsistency of his behaviour

you know Shane's not the sort of a person

who can tell you in a straight way

look I really don't...

I'm just not digging this

so he would have to go around the houses

and tell you in some complicated way

that you eventually get the message

and then he would make it look like

you're telling him this... you know?

so that it would be all you fault...

you're telling him he can't do this anymore

in fact he'd just gone to extreme lengths

to make you understand that that's the case

ahh... and Shane is magnificent at

twisting everything around to that purpose

so I think he probably

thinks we sacked him yes

but he knows in his heart that it's not true

they fired him... I was at the meeting

they fired him

I was venomously against it

it was in Japan after a particularly

bad couple of years as far as

some people were concerned

but the reason Shane

wasn't performing as well

and the reason he withdrew and

got as out of it as he did was because of

the situation that he found himself in

they were trying to phase

Irish music out altogether

you know what I mean?

which is insane

you know what I mean?

I said, "What do you mean?"

that's what we do... is Irish music

you know... that's what we do

that's what we do

like the Specials do ska and the

and the fucking Rolling Stones do R and B

you know what I mean?

what we do is Irish music you know

rural Irish music

you know emotional guts dance music

we got that... bypasses the end like

and hits you in the gut...

and hits you in the heart...

and hits you in the soul

oh. . . I am

I've been a babe magnet

for quite a while you know

I gave up trying to impress girls

you know what I mean

and they started getting

interested in me yeah

just think now...

is there a hot tub?

well I mean with ??? the tub's gone yeah?

there's a sauna and swimming pool yeah?

I told you I'm going to

put a jacousi in the barn yeah?

you cannot become a babe

magnet if you're no good

know what I mean?

because girls tell other girls

what you're like you know what I mean

and like you might be really dishy

which I'm not you know what I mean?

but that wasn't my attraction

you know what I mean? like you know

girls said to other girls yeah?

- do you want to come in the Merc Shane? - what?

- do you want to come in the Merc? - yeah

- right I'll go get it -I'll get my car though

- come in a decent car - come in the Merc right

- come and try a piece of the Merc - yeah come on and have a shot of the Merc

- first decent fucking car we ever had - absolutely i quite agree

i quite agree... i couldn't agree more

you mean the last decent car

I've been reading all this stuff about you

this very public row between

you and Sinead O'Connor

she said she was going to shop you

for heroin... isn't that so?

and she did

I think it's bloody obvious that she's

out only for publicity

and like... at this stage of the game like

she doesn't... she doesn't even view it like

you know what I mean like

she'll do anything for publicity

you know what I mean?

I do believe she did do it

because she genuinely felt that

our relationship was worth saving

and she saw that I love Shane

and that Shane loves me

and she could see that very clearly

even though I couldn't really

at that point... see it

I was like ready to give up

I thought right, well you know I

cut my losses and see if I can find

some more satisfactory relationship

it may well have helped because

I think it did force Shane to think

even if he didn't want to think...

about what was going on and what...

you know and what I was unhappy about

and what he was doing and stuff

she's friends with

friends of my missus Vickie

she seems to believe

that she whatever did

with the best intentions you know?

so I don't give a fuck or anything

she's like you know

well she's got no right to

it's my life you know

I'm a fucking adult you know

I'm not the one to take a moral

high-ground about drug-taking

umm... in any way

umm... and what... Shane

feels is right for him is right for him

umm... myself I... I guess uhh...

I don't know... two years ago

I had to make a... a choice really

whether I was going to continue to

write and be an artist or whether

I was going uhh... to be a junkie

and that was pretty much the

choice that was being made

a year had gone by when the piano

just sort of sat in the corner of the room

staring back at me blankly

I wasn't doing anything

I wasn't able to a put a line on... on paper

and for me it became necessary to stop

and for me since I've stopped

I've been able to write with

much more energy

much more dedication

and much more concentration

than ever before

what Shane does is completely up to him

and has every right to do whatever he wants

and believe whatever he wants

that sounds like a sheep innit?

people often ask what Shane would be like

if he didn't drink but umm... it's funny

I don't ever really wonder about it

I don't ever really think about that

it seems to be so much a part

of what he's like

it seems almost as though that's

his purpose in life

is to write about drinking

I'm not saying that he only

writes about drinking

but to write about the type of things

that he does write about

and he encompasses quite alot

when I was young I washed the cars

when I was older I drank in bars

I don't know if he could

do it in the same way

if he was a different kind of person

and he lived his life differently

I don't know whether Shane terms

himself an alcoholic or not

Phil Chevron certainly ended up saying

I am an alcoholic and getting out of it

Terry Woods ended up saying

I am an alcoholic and getting out of it

Spider ended up saying

I am an alcoholic and getting out of it

Shane exhibited all of the characteristics

of the other three but just kept on going

- Joey - what?

don't tell me they haven't stuffed the olives for you

there's no gin... there's martini

we've survived... we survived the Pogues

you know I have been... I could easily be

dead now if there hadn't come a point

where I realized that

that was my next option

to decide whether or not

that was going to happen you know

you wanna go onstage? let's go

let's go... let's go here

you don't have to spend very long

on the road to know that you know

like you... you.. you can't be worried

about things like your health

and fucking like... like... uhh...

your parents being worried or like

you know what I mean? or like uhh...

the papers telling lies about you

whatever... you know what I mean?

you've got to say shit to all of that

you know what I mean?

I was just... what do I want to do?

I wanted... I want... I wanna be a mu...

what I always wanted to do was be a

professional musician you know

thank God I've ended up being

a professional musician

if he was out playing and wasn't

called in... for the rosary

there'd be... a bit of a row with him

Shane... whoever you were like...

you know John Jim George... you know

you know uhh... Bridget whatever

you know Maggie... Ryan you know

uhh yeah... you know?

it's the rosary... it's the rosary

and it's over the bed or

ahhh... it's gone away

and he's coming up... he's coming up

and aww... he went out

ahhh... almost there

oh yeah... he's coming up

he's coming up... he's coming up

ahhh... it's gone away

- what's the panic? - ??? it's on in fucking Limerick

you know what I mean?

she's... two hours ago it's fucking starting

she was supposed to be coming

??? here... and you're speaking like that

well it's the cinéma vérité you know?

I mean that's what they call it

as the french say

that means realistic cinema