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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:07,350 --> 00:00:10,030 REBECCA BARRY: It is a scandal. 2 00:00:10,070 --> 00:00:15,470 One that's rumbled on for more than 20 years and counting. 3 00:00:15,510 --> 00:00:17,670 Damaging lives... 4 00:00:17,710 --> 00:00:19,910 I had an inescapable abuser. 5 00:00:19,950 --> 00:00:22,550 ..sowing distrust... 6 00:00:22,590 --> 00:00:25,590 I became a recluse. 7 00:00:25,630 --> 00:00:29,230 ..and shaking an industry to its core. 8 00:00:29,270 --> 00:00:32,710 Apologies by some, and over £1 billion spent 9 00:00:32,750 --> 00:00:36,150 by two of Britain's biggest newspaper groups 10 00:00:36,190 --> 00:00:39,870 on legal fees, and on pay-outs to thousands of victims 11 00:00:39,910 --> 00:00:42,990 whose lives have been invaded by phone-hacking 12 00:00:43,030 --> 00:00:45,630 and unlawful information gathering. 13 00:00:45,670 --> 00:00:49,390 And yet for many, the pain endures. 14 00:00:49,430 --> 00:00:53,710 Not least for a prince who continues to fight. 15 00:00:53,750 --> 00:00:56,950 This is a David versus Goliath situation. 16 00:00:56,990 --> 00:00:58,750 The Davids are the claimants, 17 00:00:58,790 --> 00:01:03,350 and the Goliath is this vast media enterprise. 18 00:01:03,390 --> 00:01:06,230 And it's not just the rich and famous. 19 00:01:06,270 --> 00:01:09,150 This wasn't just salacious gossip, we were just normal people 20 00:01:09,190 --> 00:01:12,590 who got involved in a horrific incident. 21 00:01:12,630 --> 00:01:15,470 Recent claims go even further. 22 00:01:15,510 --> 00:01:16,990 Burglary. 23 00:01:17,030 --> 00:01:19,070 The whole door had been taken off its hinges. 24 00:01:19,110 --> 00:01:21,310 Eavesdropping on people's live phone calls 25 00:01:21,350 --> 00:01:24,630 and blagging their private information. 26 00:01:24,670 --> 00:01:27,710 As one courtroom battle concludes, 27 00:01:27,750 --> 00:01:31,310 other Fleet Street giants face trial. 28 00:01:31,350 --> 00:01:35,110 Now, accusations of cover-ups against some newspapers... 29 00:01:35,150 --> 00:01:38,630 It is clear to me that we were not told the full truth. 30 00:01:38,670 --> 00:01:41,190 ..have re-ignited this controversy... 31 00:01:41,230 --> 00:01:43,510 The yard covered it up. 32 00:01:43,550 --> 00:01:47,870 ..giving some new drive in their fight for the truth. 33 00:01:47,910 --> 00:01:50,510 I don't think there's anyone in the world that is better suited 34 00:01:50,550 --> 00:01:53,430 to be able to see this through than myself. 35 00:01:53,470 --> 00:01:56,310 I'm trying to get justice for everybody. 36 00:02:05,310 --> 00:02:08,470 Can you just describe what it is that you're looking at? 37 00:02:08,510 --> 00:02:12,590 A very young photograph of me from my school days, 38 00:02:12,630 --> 00:02:15,190 and the headline saying, "Harry's Taken Drugs" - 39 00:02:15,230 --> 00:02:18,590 smoking dope with pals in the pub. 40 00:02:18,630 --> 00:02:21,830 And what goes through your head when you see that now? 41 00:02:21,870 --> 00:02:27,030 Erm... I don't even know what to say any more. 42 00:02:27,070 --> 00:02:30,030 HE CHUCKLES 43 00:02:30,070 --> 00:02:33,990 Being that young and being under constant surveillance 44 00:02:34,030 --> 00:02:38,270 and distrusting everybody around you... yeah, it sucks. 45 00:02:49,030 --> 00:02:52,230 It's been a bitter legal battle 46 00:02:52,270 --> 00:02:56,030 that finally reached its conclusion last December - 47 00:02:56,070 --> 00:03:00,750 Prince Harry's High Court case against Mirror Group Newspapers. 48 00:03:00,790 --> 00:03:05,390 Today is a great day for truth as well as accountability. 49 00:03:05,430 --> 00:03:10,990 The judge ruled that phone-hacking and unlawful information gathering 50 00:03:11,030 --> 00:03:14,870 was "habitual and widespread" at The Mirror, The Sunday Mirror 51 00:03:14,910 --> 00:03:19,670 and The People, for more than a decade. 52 00:03:19,710 --> 00:03:23,110 This case is not just about hacking. 53 00:03:23,150 --> 00:03:30,310 It is about a systemic practice of unlawful and appalling behaviour. 54 00:03:30,350 --> 00:03:34,110 For both sides, it was the end of a punishing legal process, 55 00:03:34,150 --> 00:03:36,790 with one side claiming victory, 56 00:03:36,830 --> 00:03:40,750 the other seeking to draw a line under the saga. 57 00:03:40,790 --> 00:03:43,390 But it all might not have happened without the persistence 58 00:03:43,430 --> 00:03:50,150 and financial firepower of an aggrieved and angry prince. 59 00:03:50,190 --> 00:03:54,030 This is the first time Prince Harry has spoken about his win. 60 00:03:54,070 --> 00:03:56,070 Did you feel vindicated? 61 00:03:56,110 --> 00:03:58,150 Yeah, no, I did feel vindicated. 62 00:03:58,190 --> 00:04:00,430 Phone hacking has been going on for a long time. 63 00:04:00,470 --> 00:04:03,070 It's some... especially the defendants, you know, 64 00:04:03,110 --> 00:04:05,670 claim to for it to be historical. 65 00:04:05,710 --> 00:04:09,150 Well, there's a huge amount that has come to light now 66 00:04:09,190 --> 00:04:11,710 that people, and the British public especially, 67 00:04:11,750 --> 00:04:15,550 simply have no idea about. 68 00:04:15,590 --> 00:04:18,470 The judge ruled 15 out of 33 articles - 69 00:04:18,510 --> 00:04:21,790 about his past girlfriends, a conversation with his brother, 70 00:04:21,830 --> 00:04:24,150 his deployments to Afghanistan - 71 00:04:24,190 --> 00:04:28,550 were all the result of unlawful invasions into his privacy. 72 00:04:28,590 --> 00:04:31,590 In total, he's reportedly been awarded 73 00:04:31,630 --> 00:04:34,710 hundreds of thousands of pounds in damages. 74 00:04:34,750 --> 00:04:37,630 Can you just spell out to me what kind of criminal tactics 75 00:04:37,670 --> 00:04:41,150 Mirror Group newspapers used against you? 76 00:04:41,190 --> 00:04:43,310 Well, there's voicemail interception, 77 00:04:43,350 --> 00:04:45,310 blagging of flight records. 78 00:04:45,350 --> 00:04:47,190 It was always referred to as just "phone hacking", 79 00:04:47,230 --> 00:04:49,070 but it's the unlawful information gathering 80 00:04:49,110 --> 00:04:51,110 and use of private investigators, 81 00:04:51,150 --> 00:04:56,710 that was really the secondary part to this. 82 00:04:56,750 --> 00:05:00,510 When you got the judge's ruling that you had been hacked, 83 00:05:00,550 --> 00:05:02,950 what was your reaction? 84 00:05:02,990 --> 00:05:04,710 To go in there, and come out 85 00:05:04,750 --> 00:05:11,790 and have the judge rule in our favour was obviously huge. 86 00:05:11,830 --> 00:05:15,790 But to go as far as he did with regard to, you know, 87 00:05:15,830 --> 00:05:18,950 this wasn't just the individual people, 88 00:05:18,990 --> 00:05:20,670 this went right up to the top, this was lawyers, 89 00:05:20,710 --> 00:05:23,310 this was high executives. 90 00:05:23,350 --> 00:05:26,790 And to be able to achieve that in a trial, 91 00:05:26,830 --> 00:05:31,790 that's a monumental victory. 92 00:05:31,830 --> 00:05:37,230 Nick Davies is the journalist who exposed the phone hacking scandal. 93 00:05:37,270 --> 00:05:39,310 The judgment that Mr Justice Fancourt handed down 94 00:05:39,350 --> 00:05:41,710 is devastating. 95 00:05:41,750 --> 00:05:45,430 He identifies by name senior journalists 96 00:05:45,470 --> 00:05:47,950 across the Mirror Group titles. 97 00:05:47,990 --> 00:05:50,870 He identifies the chief executive of the Mirror Group at that time, 98 00:05:50,910 --> 00:05:53,510 the chief legal officer, and he says of all of them, 99 00:05:53,550 --> 00:05:56,030 "You were on the wrong side of the line here. 100 00:05:56,070 --> 00:05:59,590 "You knew this was going on, you failed to stop it." 101 00:05:59,630 --> 00:06:04,150 It's a really, really devastating judgment. 102 00:06:04,190 --> 00:06:06,590 Prince Harry's settled case against Mirror Group Newspapers 103 00:06:06,630 --> 00:06:10,710 isn't the only lawsuit on the table. 104 00:06:10,750 --> 00:06:17,030 He's playing a pivotal part in two other live cases. 105 00:06:17,070 --> 00:06:20,110 The first, against Rupert Murdoch's News Group Newspapers - 106 00:06:20,150 --> 00:06:21,950 the publisher of The Sun. 107 00:06:21,990 --> 00:06:24,310 The second, against Associated Newspapers - 108 00:06:24,350 --> 00:06:27,030 the publisher of the Daily Mail and the Mail on Sunday, 109 00:06:27,070 --> 00:06:30,350 a powerful newsgroup who've been sucked into this storm 110 00:06:30,390 --> 00:06:35,030 for the first time. All part of Harry's mission. 111 00:06:35,070 --> 00:06:38,510 This is a David versus Goliath situation. 112 00:06:38,550 --> 00:06:40,390 The Davids are the claimants, 113 00:06:40,430 --> 00:06:43,470 and the Goliath is this vast media enterprise. 114 00:06:43,510 --> 00:06:46,630 I'm trying to get justice for everybody. 115 00:06:46,670 --> 00:06:50,830 To understand these courtroom conflicts, 116 00:06:50,870 --> 00:06:54,430 you need to go back 30 years. 117 00:06:54,470 --> 00:06:59,070 Britain in the '90s was in the midst of change - 118 00:06:59,110 --> 00:07:01,590 technology altering the way we lived, 119 00:07:01,630 --> 00:07:05,390 and celebrity culture had become a national fascination. 120 00:07:05,430 --> 00:07:08,830 The tabloid papers held the cards. 121 00:07:08,870 --> 00:07:13,630 The power to sway elections, to make or break careers. 122 00:07:13,670 --> 00:07:19,550 And as the '90s were drawing to a close, 123 00:07:19,590 --> 00:07:23,790 one little girl in Wales was becoming a rising star. 124 00:07:23,830 --> 00:07:29,230 OPERATIC SINGING 125 00:07:29,270 --> 00:07:36,030 I never look back at old headlines or old stories 126 00:07:36,070 --> 00:07:39,550 at old headlines or old stories 127 00:07:39,590 --> 00:07:41,830 that were written about me. 128 00:07:41,870 --> 00:07:44,870 CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICK 129 00:07:44,910 --> 00:07:48,590 I think that whole period of my life was so coloured 130 00:07:48,630 --> 00:07:52,430 by what the tabloid press were trying to do to us. 131 00:07:52,470 --> 00:07:59,070 Because they sort of poisoned it, in a way. 132 00:07:59,110 --> 00:08:02,630 Charlotte Church launched into the world's media spotlight 133 00:08:02,670 --> 00:08:05,630 at just 11 years old. 134 00:08:05,670 --> 00:08:07,470 Will you give us a little burst? 135 00:08:07,510 --> 00:08:09,470 Of course. Please can I get a C off the orchestra? 136 00:08:09,510 --> 00:08:12,110 A C. Well, you can try. They haven't been hitting them this evening. 137 00:08:12,150 --> 00:08:14,510 C, please. There you go, C. 138 00:08:14,550 --> 00:08:18,870 A household name overnight, with no idea of what to expect. 139 00:08:18,910 --> 00:08:22,470 It was incredibly exciting. 140 00:08:22,510 --> 00:08:26,110 We were a working class family from South Wales, 141 00:08:26,150 --> 00:08:29,470 and this sort of stuff just didn't happen to people like us. 142 00:08:29,510 --> 00:08:33,910 You know, it was proper fairy-tale stuff. 143 00:08:33,950 --> 00:08:37,990 I was aware of the press coverage that I was getting, 144 00:08:38,030 --> 00:08:42,110 but I had absolutely no context for it. 145 00:08:42,150 --> 00:08:44,670 I'd never read anything, any sort of newspaper, 146 00:08:44,710 --> 00:08:47,870 or I was reading things like Smash Hits. 147 00:08:47,910 --> 00:08:50,670 LAUGHS But that was about it! 148 00:08:50,710 --> 00:08:52,470 Excuse me. 149 00:08:52,510 --> 00:08:55,590 This new global superstar was in demand. 150 00:08:55,630 --> 00:08:57,950 But once the angelic child became a teenager... 151 00:08:57,990 --> 00:09:00,150 Eleven hours till I'm 18. 152 00:09:00,190 --> 00:09:02,990 ..the tabloid tone shifted. 153 00:09:03,030 --> 00:09:05,510 Just gonna know exactly where I'm going, the little fuckheads. 154 00:09:05,550 --> 00:09:08,510 MAN:They're gonna follow us. They cannot follow us. 155 00:09:08,550 --> 00:09:10,950 You're gonna have to lose them, Mark. I know, I'm trying. 156 00:09:10,990 --> 00:09:14,830 From the ages of, like, you know, 15 to 21, essentially, 157 00:09:14,870 --> 00:09:18,430 you know, 15 to 21, essentially, 158 00:09:18,470 --> 00:09:24,070 I had an inescapable abuser - the press. 159 00:09:24,110 --> 00:09:27,590 They used to cut holes in hedges and stuff, 160 00:09:27,630 --> 00:09:31,030 where we lived and where my friends lived, 161 00:09:31,070 --> 00:09:33,430 so they could use long lenses 162 00:09:33,470 --> 00:09:37,310 and we wouldn't necessarily know that they were there. 163 00:09:37,350 --> 00:09:42,590 And then, of course, when I was acting like a normal teenager, 164 00:09:42,630 --> 00:09:47,350 they sensationalised that to such a point 165 00:09:47,390 --> 00:09:50,150 where you would've thought that I was, like, 166 00:09:50,190 --> 00:09:58,270 a completely out of control person on hard drugs. 167 00:09:58,310 --> 00:10:03,990 And then, you know, have everybody believe that. 168 00:10:08,030 --> 00:10:11,150 It's so dehumanising. 169 00:10:11,190 --> 00:10:14,110 Many of the stories went beyond press intrusion. 170 00:10:14,150 --> 00:10:16,750 From the age of 16 onwards, 171 00:10:16,790 --> 00:10:19,190 she was being hacked by The News Of The World. 172 00:10:19,230 --> 00:10:23,110 Get your fucking hands off! 173 00:10:23,150 --> 00:10:25,870 There was so many articles that stood out to me 174 00:10:25,910 --> 00:10:29,350 as being, like, there is no way... like, where are they listening? 175 00:10:29,390 --> 00:10:35,590 There's just a level of paranoia and anxiety. 176 00:10:35,630 --> 00:10:37,710 We used to say, "God, have they tapped our phones? 177 00:10:37,750 --> 00:10:40,550 "Have they got microphones in our house?" 178 00:10:40,590 --> 00:10:43,630 Charlotte believes an article in the Daily Mail 179 00:10:43,670 --> 00:10:47,390 was the result of phone-tapping. 180 00:10:47,430 --> 00:10:51,510 There was one story I remember where I was having an argument 181 00:10:51,550 --> 00:10:54,270 with my mom and dad on the phone. I was literally by myself. 182 00:10:54,310 --> 00:10:58,550 Nobody could have overheard us. And it was a live conversation. 183 00:10:58,590 --> 00:11:03,070 It was a live conversation which ended up in the Daily Mail. 184 00:11:03,110 --> 00:11:05,110 It's just such a violation. 185 00:11:05,150 --> 00:11:08,230 And there was just... there were so many stories like that. 186 00:11:08,270 --> 00:11:10,990 The Daily Mail say that Charlotte has never complained 187 00:11:11,030 --> 00:11:14,070 about this article, and it was based on an overheard conversation 188 00:11:14,110 --> 00:11:16,230 in a public place. 189 00:11:16,270 --> 00:11:18,950 They categorically deny unlawful information gathering, 190 00:11:18,990 --> 00:11:22,030 as does the journalist who wrote the story. 191 00:11:22,070 --> 00:11:25,630 But for papers looking for a scoop, 192 00:11:25,670 --> 00:11:30,390 anyone connected to Charlotte became collateral damage. 193 00:11:30,430 --> 00:11:33,550 My mother was already an incredibly vulnerable woman. 194 00:11:33,590 --> 00:11:36,310 Her mental health was really bad. 195 00:11:36,350 --> 00:11:41,230 I'd found her after taking an overdose. 196 00:11:41,270 --> 00:11:45,190 She was in a really bad way, and that was straight in the press. 197 00:11:45,230 --> 00:11:48,230 Straight in the press, no idea again where it came from. 198 00:11:48,270 --> 00:11:51,110 I mean, it was horrific. 199 00:11:51,150 --> 00:11:53,830 And she's never been able to fully come back 200 00:11:53,870 --> 00:11:56,790 from the abuse that she suffered. 201 00:11:56,830 --> 00:12:01,430 My parents, they weren't public people. 202 00:12:01,470 --> 00:12:04,710 They had never courted it, 203 00:12:04,750 --> 00:12:08,030 and they just got absolutely mullered, 204 00:12:08,070 --> 00:12:11,630 completely mullered by the tabloid press. 205 00:12:11,670 --> 00:12:15,190 Like, they were fair game, like I was fair game. 206 00:12:15,230 --> 00:12:17,590 Why was I fair game? 207 00:12:17,630 --> 00:12:24,390 Their motivation could be put down to one factor - money. 208 00:12:24,430 --> 00:12:26,950 There was this ruthless determination 209 00:12:26,990 --> 00:12:28,750 to beat the opposition. 210 00:12:28,790 --> 00:12:31,510 You have these big profit-seeking corporations 211 00:12:31,550 --> 00:12:35,110 and they pass down the need to make profit, 212 00:12:35,150 --> 00:12:38,070 which gets translated into a need to find stories 213 00:12:38,110 --> 00:12:41,350 in order to sell more copies, in order to have more readers. 214 00:12:41,390 --> 00:12:44,790 And the criminality in these newspapers 215 00:12:44,830 --> 00:12:48,830 is the logical outcome of the constant drive 216 00:12:48,870 --> 00:12:54,950 for more and more profit from their bosses. 217 00:12:54,990 --> 00:12:56,870 If you wanted a career in newspapers 218 00:12:56,910 --> 00:12:59,150 and you wanted a career in the tabloids, 219 00:12:59,190 --> 00:13:02,470 you had to put your head down and do what you were told. 220 00:13:02,510 --> 00:13:06,950 And so you saw this kind of escalating screw of anxiety going on 221 00:13:06,990 --> 00:13:10,870 with people trying to find out, "Well, how do you get the scoops? 222 00:13:10,910 --> 00:13:13,230 "Where are these stories coming from?" 223 00:13:13,270 --> 00:13:21,310 And I think that pushed people into using shortcuts. 224 00:13:22,750 --> 00:13:25,310 Even now, few from inside the tabloid world 225 00:13:25,350 --> 00:13:29,590 admit to being a part of any illegality. 226 00:13:29,630 --> 00:13:35,470 Paul McMullan spent seven years at The News Of The World, 227 00:13:35,510 --> 00:13:39,790 one of Britain's most popular papers. 228 00:13:39,830 --> 00:13:43,430 These days, he runs a pub on the south coast. 229 00:13:43,470 --> 00:13:47,990 What sort of pressure was there to deliver exclusives and stories? 230 00:13:48,030 --> 00:13:50,910 At The News Of The World, if you did less than 12 exclusives a year, 231 00:13:50,950 --> 00:13:53,790 you got fired. 232 00:13:53,830 --> 00:13:56,270 But sometimes, the methods to get those stories were unlawful. 233 00:13:56,310 --> 00:13:58,990 Was that justified? 234 00:13:59,030 --> 00:14:01,430 Perfectly, yeah. 235 00:14:01,470 --> 00:14:03,350 Because what is in the public interest? 236 00:14:03,390 --> 00:14:06,950 And I think the public is capable of saying what it's interested in. 237 00:14:06,990 --> 00:14:09,510 And the very fact that five million people 238 00:14:09,550 --> 00:14:12,950 put their hand in their pocket and paid a pound to read it, 239 00:14:12,990 --> 00:14:16,550 surely that is public interest enough. 240 00:14:16,590 --> 00:14:18,870 Isn't there a difference between public interest 241 00:14:18,910 --> 00:14:20,950 and what interests the public? 242 00:14:20,990 --> 00:14:23,870 No, it's exactly the same. It has to be. 243 00:14:23,910 --> 00:14:27,710 Can you list for me the kinds of unlawful tactics 244 00:14:27,750 --> 00:14:30,270 that you took part in? 245 00:14:30,310 --> 00:14:32,670 I did loads of illegal things. Stole things. 246 00:14:32,710 --> 00:14:35,910 I mean, blagged things. I did blagging. 247 00:14:35,950 --> 00:14:39,230 Even that now is illegal. 248 00:14:39,270 --> 00:14:43,590 I mean, I'll tell you a great blag on Bob Geldof, if you like, 249 00:14:43,630 --> 00:14:48,510 to give you an idea. So Bob, he got off with this girl in France, 250 00:14:48,550 --> 00:14:52,150 so we rang up the hotel, and cos I speak French, 251 00:14:52,190 --> 00:14:55,190 I said, "We are Monsieur Geldof's accountants. 252 00:14:55,230 --> 00:14:58,310 "Can you send us his bill?" So they faxed us over the bill, 253 00:14:58,350 --> 00:15:01,230 everything he'd had on room service, all the numbers he'd called. 254 00:15:01,270 --> 00:15:03,790 So we just called through all the numbers 255 00:15:03,830 --> 00:15:06,750 and worked out who his new girlfriend was. 256 00:15:06,790 --> 00:15:09,590 Which I think is a brilliant piece of investigative journalism. 257 00:15:09,630 --> 00:15:13,070 But is that illegal? Yes. 258 00:15:13,110 --> 00:15:18,510 Oh, well, anyway, it probably wasn't in the '90s. 259 00:15:18,550 --> 00:15:20,670 'Then there's the act of voicemail interception 260 00:15:20,710 --> 00:15:22,950 'or phone hacking, a legally grey area 261 00:15:22,990 --> 00:15:26,510 'until it was made a crime in the year 2000. 262 00:15:26,550 --> 00:15:29,590 'But Paul tells me it didn't stop The News Of The World 263 00:15:29,630 --> 00:15:32,670 'from doing it on an "industrial scale". ' 264 00:15:32,710 --> 00:15:35,990 Did you hack anyone? 265 00:15:36,030 --> 00:15:39,390 I didn't really have to cos I was senior enough 266 00:15:39,430 --> 00:15:41,710 not to have to do it. 267 00:15:41,750 --> 00:15:45,190 The people who did it were the reporters who were trying to get on. 268 00:15:45,230 --> 00:15:48,470 And they were bullied by the bosses. But we hacked everyone's phone. 269 00:15:48,510 --> 00:15:50,190 I mean, literally, everyone's phone. 270 00:15:50,230 --> 00:15:52,070 We had a number, we were gonna listen to it. 271 00:15:52,110 --> 00:15:55,710 It was almost an industry standard technique. 272 00:15:55,750 --> 00:15:59,670 Everybody did it all the time. We didn't see it as bad. 273 00:15:59,710 --> 00:16:01,630 We didn't see it as illegal. 274 00:16:01,670 --> 00:16:04,350 So you could say it's a pretty victimless crime. 275 00:16:04,390 --> 00:16:07,190 You didn't even know. But don't people have a right to privacy? 276 00:16:07,230 --> 00:16:10,790 You might want privacy, but you don't need it. 277 00:16:10,830 --> 00:16:12,590 The only people who actually need it 278 00:16:12,630 --> 00:16:15,470 are people who are doing something fundamentally wrong or bad, 279 00:16:15,510 --> 00:16:20,550 and that's why we had all our surveillance techniques 280 00:16:20,590 --> 00:16:25,030 to catch them out. 281 00:16:25,790 --> 00:16:28,270 Now it's alleged the tricks of some of the tabloids 282 00:16:28,310 --> 00:16:32,150 went far beyond just phone-hacking. 283 00:16:32,190 --> 00:16:34,270 There was microphones in window boxes, 284 00:16:34,310 --> 00:29:22,180 medical records all blagged and stolen. 285 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:28,040 CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICK 286 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,800 In those days, the paparazzi were something else. 287 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:35,640 I mean, something extraordinary. 288 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,760 Doesn't mean it doesn't happen still today, to me, to other people. 289 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:44,800 But I remember... I remember that night out. 290 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,400 I remember the paparazzi trying to get in the door, to get in the car, 291 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,440 I remember being hit over the head by cameras, 292 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,040 I remember my security doing everything they could 293 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,480 to try to keep them away. 294 00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,720 It felt like harassment. 295 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:05,360 It felt horrible then, it feels horrible now. 296 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,680 MAN:How do you feel today, Hugh? 297 00:34:08,720 --> 00:34:10,840 'I seemed to have no privacy at all.' 298 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:12,640 Please look towards me. 299 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:17,360 All right, guys, that's it. 300 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,520 Wherever I went, whatever I did, 301 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:29,000 there could well be a photographer or a journalist waiting, watching. 302 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,240 Some say the loss of privacy 303 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:36,400 is simply the price you pay for fame and fortune. 304 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,880 But Hugh Grant believes that as his profile grew, 305 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,920 so too did the illegal acts used against him. 306 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,240 This isn't something that's only about phone hacking. 307 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,520 There was microphones in window boxes outside the house. 308 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,800 There were trackers, microphones dropped into my car. 309 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,560 There were medical records of me 310 00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:02,840 and mothers of my children, for instance. 311 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,840 All blagged and stolen out of the NHS. 312 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,680 And perhaps most spectacularly, 313 00:35:09,720 --> 00:35:15,360 the burglary of both my flat and my office. 314 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,280 'The actor recently made these claims 315 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,440 'in legal action against The Sun, 316 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,400 'allegations the newspaper has always denied.' 317 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,160 Can you take me back to that moment 318 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,120 when you discovered you'd been burgled? 319 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:33,040 So, in the case of my flat burglary, yeah, it was quite spectacular 320 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:34,960 in that the whole door had been taken off its hinges. 321 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:41,240 Up, up, it's a big walk-up, like, four floors up. 322 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,400 And, yes, they'd been through the flat, and nothing was stolen. 323 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,600 They'd been there to get information. 324 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:50,320 And a lot of information about the interior and the contents of my flat 325 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:55,040 appeared in newspapers a couple of days later. 326 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,600 And there's never been a burglary before or since. 327 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,560 'But back then, Hugh says, 328 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,200 'even contacting the police brought its own risks.' 329 00:36:03,240 --> 00:36:05,800 These people live above the law. 330 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,080 And the police, I'm afraid, at that least at that stage, 331 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,760 were as dangerous as the reporters. 332 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,240 If you called the police about anything... 333 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,320 I remember my girlfriend getting mugged just around here. 334 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,880 If you called them, you were absolutely sure 335 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,120 that the first person who would turn up 336 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,760 would not be a policeman, it would be a reporter. 337 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,440 Cos the Met just got straight on the phone to the tabloids, 338 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,000 tipped them off. 339 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,560 Most of the more difficult or illegal acts 340 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,720 were farmed out to private investigators - PIs - 341 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,520 specialising in what was known as "the dark arts". 342 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:43,920 And sometimes, they had links to the police. 343 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,560 Peter, which isn't his real name, 344 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,080 was a serving officer whilst moonlighting as a PI. 345 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:54,440 He says he worked for Mirror Group and News Group Newspapers. 346 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,360 We mainly specialised in the surveillance side of things. 347 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,600 Anything from accessing voicemails, 348 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,200 getting into people's emails, phone tapping. 349 00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:06,800 If you personally couldn't get hold of information, 350 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,920 how did you go about finding it? What did you do? 351 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,680 We had a network of subcontractors who could help us 352 00:37:13,720 --> 00:37:17,320 with getting any information that we wanted. 353 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:21,360 Some of them were more prevalent in blagging, 354 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,840 some were good at IT stuff, and some were good at phone tapping. 355 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,960 Do you think that the people who commissioned your work knew 356 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:34,480 that the information could only have come from unlawful methods? 357 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,800 It was a bit like the Wild West, really. 358 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,120 It was very open, everything was talked about. 359 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,880 I don't think that there were was ever a time where anyone would say, 360 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,000 "You need to be careful about this." 361 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:54,920 But away from Fleet Street, their victims and the public had no idea. 362 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,120 Until, in 2005, a chain of events at The News Of The World 363 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:03,560 exposed their unlawful tactics. 364 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,520 The royal correspondent of The News Of The World, 365 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,600 Clive Goodman, is plodding away in The News Of The World office, 366 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,520 not doing terribly well. 367 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,960 There's this private investigator in in the background, Glenn Mulcaire, 368 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:14,760 who's helping other people to hack voicemail. 369 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,200 Goodman hooks up with him and says, "Come on, help me out here, mate." 370 00:38:17,240 --> 00:38:20,360 The mistake that Goodman and Mulcaire made 371 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:24,040 was to target the one group of people in this country 372 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,640 who have more prestige and more power 373 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,640 than Rupert Murdoch and his company - the royal family. 374 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,440 They systematically targeted 375 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,000 phone numbers from the royal household. 376 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,440 And to some extent, they were successful. 377 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,240 Their hacking did bring in exclusives 378 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,480 about Princes Harry and William, but the details were so specific, 379 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:44,720 they could have only have come from one place - voicemails. 380 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:51,000 Buckingham Palace grew suspicious and contacted the police. 381 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:55,560 In August 2006, Clive Goodman and Glenn Mulcaire are arrested. 382 00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:59,680 The police seize the private investigator's notebooks, 383 00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:03,080 containing thousands of names and mobile numbers, 384 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,920 but no-one else at The News Of The World is charged. 385 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,160 Within months, Scotland Yard closes the police investigation, 386 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,840 only giving their reasons years later. 387 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,640 Our enquiries show that in the vast majority of cases, 388 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:19,880 there was insufficient evidence 389 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,640 to show that tapping had actually been achieved. 390 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:27,400 The pair are convicted in January 2007. 391 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:29,320 Though the paper's editor, Andy Coulson, 392 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,960 says he had no idea it'd been going on, 393 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,760 he resigns and moves on to a new job as director of communications 394 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:39,400 for the then opposition leader, David Cameron. 395 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,360 I believe in giving people a second chance. 396 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,320 In February, the paper's new editor says an internal investigation found 397 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,760 it'd been "a rogue exception", 398 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:49,960 carried out by a single reporter in their newsroom. 399 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,520 The News Of The World succeeded at that time 400 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:55,840 at strapping down a cover-up. 401 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:57,880 They were allowed to get away with claiming, 402 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,560 "Nothing to see here. One dodgy reporter, that's it." 403 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:05,240 And they very, very nearly got away with that. 404 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,760 The police didn't act quickly enough. 405 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:10,800 I was Deputy Editor of The News Of The World 406 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,200 before the hacking era. 407 00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:14,960 Later on, again before the hacking era, 408 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,520 I was Deputy Editor of Daily Mirror and Editor of the Sunday Mirror. 409 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,240 People in the industry weren't buying it, 410 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:22,960 or at least most of them weren't, 411 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,120 especially anybody with any tabloid experience. 412 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,280 But the scandal was about to evolve beyond celebrity, 413 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,440 to those caught up in tragedy, prompting public outrage 414 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:38,600 and years of claims, court cases and compensation. 415 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,320 I was contacted by a complete stranger 416 00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:46,320 who was in a position to know the whole truth 417 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:50,280 about the phone hacking saga. 418 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,280 And he sent me an email and said, 419 00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:55,520 "Here's my mobile phone number, contact me, 420 00:40:55,560 --> 00:41:06,460 "but whatever you do, don't leave a voicemail message." 421 00:41:07,420 --> 00:41:09,460 Five years had passed since the arrests 422 00:41:09,500 --> 00:41:12,100 at The News Of The World. Britain had moved on. 423 00:41:12,140 --> 00:41:14,460 And at the tabloid papers, it was business as usual. 424 00:41:14,500 --> 00:41:17,580 But then the story took on a new dimension, 425 00:41:17,620 --> 00:41:21,180 centred on Millie Dowler, 426 00:41:21,220 --> 00:41:25,060 a teenager who'd been murdered seven years earlier. 427 00:41:25,100 --> 00:41:27,380 REPORTER:Tonight, it's been alleged that a private detective 428 00:41:27,420 --> 00:41:29,500 working for The News Of The World 429 00:41:29,540 --> 00:41:31,820 hacked into the missing girl's mobile phone 430 00:41:31,860 --> 00:41:34,860 and listened to her messages. 431 00:41:34,900 --> 00:41:37,540 I understood that the targeting of Millie Dower 432 00:41:37,580 --> 00:41:39,700 was the most powerful story we had done so far, 433 00:41:39,740 --> 00:41:42,100 and said so to the editor when I filed it. 434 00:41:42,140 --> 00:41:44,180 I didn't foresee the extent 435 00:41:44,220 --> 00:41:49,900 to which it would make the whole house of cards collapse. 436 00:41:49,940 --> 00:41:53,820 People felt completely outraged that a couple of journalists 437 00:41:53,860 --> 00:41:55,700 were tampering with a live police inquiry 438 00:41:55,740 --> 00:41:58,460 into the murder of a schoolgirl. 439 00:41:58,500 --> 00:42:00,740 And this went beyond 440 00:42:00,780 --> 00:42:04,260 anything to do with hacking into the phone of a celebrity. 441 00:42:04,300 --> 00:42:11,500 This was on another scale. Something had to be done. 442 00:42:11,540 --> 00:42:16,940 Politicians don't want to alienate the press, they never have. 443 00:42:16,980 --> 00:42:19,300 But if the public feel that way, 444 00:42:19,340 --> 00:42:21,580 then the politicians can't ignore it. 445 00:42:21,620 --> 00:42:26,860 And the politicians didn't. 446 00:42:26,900 --> 00:42:29,780 Just days after the story broke, the prime minister, David Cameron, 447 00:42:29,820 --> 00:42:33,380 announced a two-part public inquiry into the scandal. 448 00:42:33,420 --> 00:42:36,940 These are the questions that need answering. 449 00:42:36,980 --> 00:42:39,860 Why did the first police investigation fail so abysmally? 450 00:42:39,900 --> 00:42:44,500 What exactly was going on at The News Of The World? 451 00:42:44,540 --> 00:42:47,420 And what was going on at other newspapers? 452 00:42:47,460 --> 00:42:50,180 That weekend, after 168 years, 453 00:42:50,220 --> 00:42:52,900 The News Of The World closed for good 454 00:42:52,940 --> 00:42:57,740 with this sentimental final front page. 455 00:42:58,340 --> 00:43:00,860 But shocking though it was, 456 00:43:00,900 --> 00:43:04,260 the hacking of Millie Dowler wasn't a lone example. 457 00:43:04,300 --> 00:43:07,340 It's now thought thousands of people who weren't famous 458 00:43:07,380 --> 00:43:10,820 were potentially targeted in the same way. 459 00:43:10,860 --> 00:43:12,740 At least four explosions have rocked Central London 460 00:43:12,780 --> 00:43:16,140 in a major coordinated terrorist attack. 461 00:43:16,180 --> 00:43:19,340 Paul Dadge was propelled onto the front pages 462 00:43:19,380 --> 00:43:22,020 when he was photographed helping the wounded 463 00:43:22,060 --> 00:43:27,980 in the aftermath of the 7/7 London bombings. 464 00:43:28,020 --> 00:43:31,260 It's obviously a memory that's deeply ingrained upon me. 465 00:43:31,300 --> 00:43:35,820 More so mentally. 466 00:43:35,860 --> 00:43:44,460 But, yeah, that picture changed my life. 467 00:43:44,500 --> 00:43:46,780 I just wanted to help people on that day. 468 00:43:46,820 --> 00:43:50,540 I can just remember hearing the shutters of the cameras growing, 469 00:43:50,580 --> 00:43:53,740 that click, click, click, click, click. 470 00:43:53,780 --> 00:43:58,900 I was now being held up as this heroic poster boy, 471 00:43:58,940 --> 00:44:04,260 when in effect, for me, people had died underground. 472 00:44:04,300 --> 00:44:14,300 And I found that very difficult to deal with. 473 00:44:17,500 --> 00:44:20,780 For the media, that photo teased a mystery 474 00:44:20,820 --> 00:44:23,580 they couldn't wait to reveal. 475 00:44:23,620 --> 00:44:25,620 Do you know if she had been in the blasted train 476 00:44:25,660 --> 00:44:27,820 or in the one ahead of you? 477 00:44:27,860 --> 00:44:29,740 I don't know that, no, I didn't ask her that. 478 00:44:29,780 --> 00:44:31,820 Do you know which hospital she's in? Don't know that, no. 479 00:44:31,860 --> 00:44:33,740 Hungry for the next scoop, every journalist wanted to know 480 00:44:33,780 --> 00:44:35,740 the identity of the woman behind the mask. 481 00:44:35,780 --> 00:44:39,860 By the time I'd left that concourse, the story had been told 482 00:44:39,900 --> 00:44:41,820 to pretty much everybody who was there. 483 00:44:41,860 --> 00:44:45,180 And everybody, importantly, had my mobile number, 484 00:44:45,220 --> 00:44:47,460 cos I just said, "There's my mobile, you know, if you need anything else, 485 00:44:47,500 --> 00:44:51,700 "let me know and I'll help you out as much as I can." 486 00:44:51,740 --> 00:44:54,380 Days after the hacking of Millie Dowler's phone came to light, 487 00:44:54,420 --> 00:44:56,700 police contacted Paul to let him know 488 00:44:56,740 --> 00:45:01,460 he too had been hacked by The News Of The World. 489 00:45:01,500 --> 00:45:04,940 I wasn't surprised, because there was such an enormous pressure 490 00:45:04,980 --> 00:45:07,300 on journalists to deliver the story of myself 491 00:45:07,340 --> 00:45:09,620 and the person I was pictured with. 492 00:45:09,660 --> 00:45:12,020 And I remember at some point, I got told by one journalist 493 00:45:12,060 --> 00:45:15,860 that she was gonna lose her job if she didn't get this story. 494 00:45:15,900 --> 00:45:19,420 And I remember at some point, I got told by one journalist 495 00:45:19,460 --> 00:45:26,180 that she was gonna lose her job if she didn't get this story. 496 00:45:26,220 --> 00:45:29,500 He's since received compensation, 497 00:45:29,540 --> 00:45:33,660 and News Group Newspapers expressed regret for the distress caused. 498 00:45:33,700 --> 00:45:36,860 We weren't celebrities. This wasn't salacious gossip. 499 00:45:36,900 --> 00:45:42,180 We were just normal people who got involved in a horrific incident. 500 00:45:42,220 --> 00:45:46,060 When something like that happens, it makes you feel very vulnerable, 501 00:45:46,100 --> 00:45:50,860 because you've lost control of the story, 502 00:45:50,900 --> 00:45:55,100 of what you want to tell and what you don't want to tell. 503 00:45:55,140 --> 00:46:01,100 And that's very, very hard. It does take its toll on you. 504 00:46:01,140 --> 00:46:09,580 The Leveson Inquiry began on 14th November 2011. 505 00:46:09,620 --> 00:46:13,140 57 celebrities, politicians and members of the public 506 00:46:13,180 --> 00:46:15,900 who were victims of press intrusion gave evidence across its 97 days. 507 00:46:15,940 --> 00:46:20,260 One of them, Christopher Jefferies, a retired schoolteacher, 508 00:46:20,300 --> 00:46:23,260 a retired schoolteacher, 509 00:46:23,300 --> 00:46:27,860 who found himself in the centre of a media storm 510 00:46:27,900 --> 00:46:29,820 during a murder investigation. 511 00:46:29,860 --> 00:46:33,220 {\an8}I could barely go out. 512 00:46:33,260 --> 00:46:38,460 {\an8}In effect, I'd become a prisoner in my own house. 513 00:46:38,500 --> 00:46:43,220 Christopher had been the landlord of Joanna Yeates, 514 00:46:43,260 --> 00:46:46,340 a young woman whose body was found in Bristol 515 00:46:46,380 --> 00:46:50,340 on Christmas Day in 2010. 516 00:46:50,380 --> 00:46:54,300 I opened the door, at which point I was told I was being arrested 517 00:46:54,340 --> 00:46:58,700 on suspicion of the murder of Jo Yeates. 518 00:46:58,740 --> 00:47:02,940 It is the psychological equivalent, I think, 519 00:47:02,980 --> 00:47:06,460 of being given a knockout blow. 520 00:47:06,500 --> 00:47:09,260 He spent three days in police custody. 521 00:47:09,300 --> 00:47:11,900 By the time he was released without charge, 522 00:47:11,940 --> 00:47:14,540 headlines had untruthfully painted him 523 00:47:14,580 --> 00:47:18,180 as a snooping, oversexualised predator, 524 00:47:18,220 --> 00:47:20,700 linking him to a convicted paedophile 525 00:47:20,740 --> 00:47:25,140 and even a previously unsolved murder. 526 00:47:25,180 --> 00:47:29,300 The picture that was being painted in the tabloids, 527 00:47:29,340 --> 00:47:35,100 it was a sensational story, was something they wanted to exploit. 528 00:47:35,140 --> 00:47:41,100 It was perfectly clear that in reporting the case as they had, 529 00:47:41,140 --> 00:47:44,580 one of the motives of the newspapers 530 00:47:44,620 --> 00:47:53,500 was to whip up as much public anger against me as they could. 531 00:47:53,540 --> 00:47:56,860 He was awarded "substantial damages" and a public apology 532 00:47:56,900 --> 00:48:01,820 from eight newspapers for more than 40 libellous articles. 533 00:48:01,860 --> 00:48:05,660 But recently, he learnt 534 00:48:05,700 --> 00:48:08,140 some papers may have been using unlawful tactics against him, 535 00:48:08,180 --> 00:48:10,500 and is now bringing a claim against News Group Newspapers, 536 00:48:10,540 --> 00:48:13,900 owners of The Sun and The News Of The World. 537 00:48:13,940 --> 00:48:17,860 The allegation is that I was subjected 538 00:48:17,900 --> 00:48:20,500 to all sorts of illegality. 539 00:48:20,540 --> 00:48:24,220 But it's further confirmation that there are almost no depths 540 00:48:24,260 --> 00:48:34,260 to which certain elements of the media will not stoop. 541 00:48:36,020 --> 00:48:39,140 Whilst the Leveson Inquiry gave victims of press intrusion 542 00:48:39,180 --> 00:48:42,140 the chance to share their experience, 543 00:48:42,180 --> 00:48:44,700 most of the 300 people giving evidence 544 00:48:44,740 --> 00:48:49,660 were insiders from the worlds of press, politics and the police. 545 00:48:49,700 --> 00:48:51,740 There is a great deal of official secrecy 546 00:48:51,780 --> 00:48:54,820 around what actually goes on in the power elite. 547 00:48:54,860 --> 00:48:58,140 And suddenly, there they were, being forced to talk in public. 548 00:48:58,180 --> 00:49:01,580 Four Prime Ministers, senior civil servants, senior police officers, 549 00:49:01,620 --> 00:49:05,380 and the most secretive beasts in the jungle, newspaper editors - 550 00:49:05,420 --> 00:49:11,540 hauled out on oath in public. "Now, tell us what's been going on." 551 00:49:11,580 --> 00:49:13,620 Those at the helm of the News Of The World 552 00:49:13,660 --> 00:49:16,340 were quick to make denials. 553 00:49:16,380 --> 00:49:18,580 The witness is Mr Coulson, please. 554 00:49:18,620 --> 00:49:21,740 No, they didn't wield too much power over politicians. 555 00:49:21,780 --> 00:49:24,300 I'm not sure I necessarily buy the theory 556 00:49:24,340 --> 00:49:27,580 that a newspaper's endorsement 557 00:49:27,620 --> 00:49:31,740 will influence its readers directly in that way. 558 00:49:31,780 --> 00:49:34,460 No, they didn't influence the police. 559 00:49:34,500 --> 00:49:37,300 ..the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. 560 00:49:37,340 --> 00:49:39,500 I felt that the contact I had with police officers, 561 00:49:39,540 --> 00:49:42,780 particularly commissioners and senior police officers, 562 00:49:42,820 --> 00:49:46,020 was always appropriate. 563 00:49:46,060 --> 00:49:48,660 And above all, no, they didn't know about the industrial-scale hacking 564 00:49:48,700 --> 00:49:52,820 that went on inside the paper. 565 00:49:52,860 --> 00:49:56,060 I think the senior executives were all misinformed 566 00:49:56,100 --> 00:50:00,660 and shielded from anything that was going on there. 567 00:50:00,700 --> 00:50:04,100 Someone took charge of a cover-up, 568 00:50:04,140 --> 00:50:09,540 which we were victim to and I regret. 569 00:50:09,580 --> 00:50:13,740 This inquiry wasn't just about The News Of The World. 570 00:50:13,780 --> 00:50:15,580 Good morning, Mr Barr. 571 00:50:15,620 --> 00:50:18,420 Good morning, sir. Our first witness is Mr Hipwell. 572 00:50:18,460 --> 00:50:20,300 Thank you. 573 00:50:20,340 --> 00:50:22,980 I, James Hipwell, do solemnly, sincerely, and truly declare... 574 00:50:23,020 --> 00:50:26,220 The entire tabloid industry was under scrutiny. 575 00:50:26,260 --> 00:50:29,020 But just one journalist was willing to blow the whistle 576 00:50:29,060 --> 00:50:34,900 on unlawful behaviour at another paper. 577 00:50:34,940 --> 00:50:39,100 James Hipwell was a columnist at The Daily Mirror. 578 00:50:39,140 --> 00:50:42,580 I was sitting next to the showbiz journalists, 579 00:50:42,620 --> 00:50:46,180 and I saw phone hacking going on. 580 00:50:46,220 --> 00:50:48,820 From the middle of 1999, I would say that I saw it happen every day. 581 00:50:48,860 --> 00:50:51,660 There were eight or ten journalists on the showbusiness desk, 582 00:50:51,700 --> 00:50:55,500 and most of them were engaged in phone hacking. 583 00:50:55,540 --> 00:50:58,260 Can you tell me, who was your editor at the time 584 00:50:58,300 --> 00:51:00,580 and did he know about what was happening? 585 00:51:00,620 --> 00:51:02,620 My editor was Piers Morgan. 586 00:51:02,660 --> 00:51:05,940 He was somewhat obsessive about celebrity news. 587 00:51:05,980 --> 00:51:10,460 There was no question that he knew what was going on 588 00:51:10,500 --> 00:51:14,620 because he would ask them, you know, "Where did this story come from?" 589 00:51:14,660 --> 00:51:17,020 And did you get the impression 590 00:51:17,060 --> 00:51:19,940 that this was just a technique used by Mirror Group Newspapers? 591 00:51:19,980 --> 00:51:21,860 No. 592 00:51:21,900 --> 00:51:25,580 I mean, on one occasion, I remember great laughter in the newsroom. 593 00:51:25,620 --> 00:51:28,780 And so I asked what was going on, and this journalist had... 594 00:51:28,820 --> 00:51:33,180 He'd hacked into the voicemail of one of the Spice Girls. 595 00:51:33,220 --> 00:51:39,900 And he knew that one of his opposite numbers on The Sun 596 00:51:39,940 --> 00:51:43,420 was gonna be hacking the same phone 597 00:51:43,460 --> 00:51:46,820 and would've picked up the same message. 598 00:51:46,860 --> 00:51:48,700 And he didn't want that journalist to hear the message, 599 00:51:48,740 --> 00:51:51,900 so he just deleted it. 600 00:51:51,940 --> 00:51:54,180 'The Sun deny this. 601 00:51:54,220 --> 00:51:56,260 'James lost his job on the city column 602 00:51:56,300 --> 00:51:58,660 'after he was caught insider trading. 603 00:51:58,700 --> 00:52:00,620 'Lawyers for The Mirror papers at the Leveson Inquiry 604 00:52:00,660 --> 00:52:03,100 'tried, unsuccessfully, to discredit him, 605 00:52:03,140 --> 00:52:06,900 'suggesting these claims were his revenge.' 606 00:52:06,940 --> 00:52:09,220 Some might accuse you of having an axe to grind 607 00:52:09,260 --> 00:52:13,180 because you lost a job at The Daily Mirror. 608 00:52:13,220 --> 00:52:16,220 That didn't really come into it. 609 00:52:16,260 --> 00:52:19,820 I mean, I see The Mirror now as a criminal enterprise. 610 00:52:19,860 --> 00:52:22,540 My column was part of that criminal enterprise. I accept that. 611 00:52:22,580 --> 00:52:28,260 And I know that, you know, we needed to be reined in. 612 00:52:28,300 --> 00:52:31,100 And it's not often in your life that you get an opportunity 613 00:52:31,140 --> 00:52:37,100 to look back at what's just happened 614 00:52:37,140 --> 00:52:45,900 and reflect on it and try to put things right. 615 00:52:45,940 --> 00:52:48,740 But James was a lone voice 616 00:52:48,780 --> 00:52:52,020 amidst a clamour of denials from Mirror Group bosses... 617 00:52:52,060 --> 00:52:53,900 I swear by the Almighty God that the evidence I shall give... 618 00:52:53,940 --> 00:52:55,500 ..shall be the truth, the whole truth... 619 00:52:55,540 --> 00:52:57,020 ..and nothing but the truth. 620 00:52:57,060 --> 00:52:59,500 Denials that two High Court judges 621 00:52:59,540 --> 00:53:01,700 presiding over civil cases against the papers 622 00:53:01,740 --> 00:53:04,940 have since found to be untrue. 623 00:53:04,980 --> 00:53:06,780 Is it true that there was phone hacking going on 624 00:53:06,820 --> 00:53:10,380 amongst the showbusiness team? 625 00:53:10,420 --> 00:53:13,180 Er, no. Not to my knowledge. 626 00:53:13,220 --> 00:53:17,340 JUDGE:'The inaccuracy of this statement has been established.' 627 00:53:17,380 --> 00:53:19,100 I have seen no evidence to show me 628 00:53:19,140 --> 00:53:22,220 that phone hacking has ever taken place at Trinity Mirror. 629 00:53:22,260 --> 00:53:24,500 JUDGE:'Ms Bailey knew, or turned a blind eye to it, 630 00:53:24,540 --> 00:53:29,020 'from about the end of 2006.' 631 00:53:29,060 --> 00:53:31,540 Are you able to help us again as to whether or not it's true? 632 00:53:31,580 --> 00:53:33,500 I'm afraid I'm not. 633 00:53:33,540 --> 00:53:35,540 JUDGE:'I have already found that she was involved in it, 634 00:53:35,580 --> 00:53:39,180 'and she clearly had knowledge of it.' 635 00:53:39,220 --> 00:53:42,900 I have no reason or knowledge to believe it was going on. 636 00:53:42,940 --> 00:53:44,980 But did you see this sort of thing going on, Mr Morgan? 637 00:53:45,020 --> 00:53:47,460 No. 638 00:53:47,500 --> 00:53:50,260 You sure about that? 639 00:53:50,300 --> 00:53:53,020 100%. 640 00:53:53,060 --> 00:53:56,020 JUDGE:'There is compelling evidence that the editors of each newspaper 641 00:53:56,060 --> 00:53:59,260 'knew very well that voicemail interception 642 00:53:59,300 --> 00:54:02,140 'was being used extensively and habitually, 643 00:54:02,180 --> 00:54:07,140 'and that they were happy to take the benefits of it.' 644 00:54:07,180 --> 00:54:09,700 I think the police need to investigate this 645 00:54:09,740 --> 00:54:12,580 because we could have a situation where 646 00:54:12,620 --> 00:54:15,260 a number of important witnesses 647 00:54:15,300 --> 00:54:18,340 to a Government-backed, British taxpayer-funded inquiry 648 00:54:18,380 --> 00:54:27,460 have lied, and that's just simply unacceptable. 649 00:54:27,500 --> 00:54:30,060 Perhaps the most shocking revelation 650 00:54:30,100 --> 00:54:32,420 to come out of Prince Harry's court action 651 00:54:32,460 --> 00:54:34,260 is that these unlawful tactics 652 00:54:34,300 --> 00:54:40,100 continued during the Leveson Inquiry. 653 00:54:40,140 --> 00:54:42,580 What is so strange about the fact 654 00:54:42,620 --> 00:54:44,860 that they continued committing the crime 655 00:54:44,900 --> 00:54:46,580 is that it looks as though 656 00:54:46,620 --> 00:54:48,620 they think that they are beyond the law. Impunity. 657 00:54:48,660 --> 00:54:51,980 But by then, they know they're not beyond the law. 658 00:54:52,020 --> 00:54:55,100 The risk level is astonishing. 659 00:54:55,140 --> 00:54:58,580 When the 16-month inquiry came to an end in 2012, 660 00:54:58,620 --> 00:55:01,860 its key recommendation for a new, tougher, industry watchdog 661 00:55:01,900 --> 00:55:05,620 was effectively ignored by the papers, 662 00:55:05,660 --> 00:55:13,500 with concerns over press freedom. 663 00:55:13,540 --> 00:55:16,340 We do have an independent regulator, 664 00:55:16,380 --> 00:55:19,100 but most of the press are not in any way attached to it. 665 00:55:19,140 --> 00:55:21,900 And the regulator cannot function 666 00:55:21,940 --> 00:55:24,260 if none of the organisations that it is intended to regulate 667 00:55:24,300 --> 00:55:27,580 actually join it. 668 00:55:27,620 --> 00:55:30,100 Many say the tabloids under the spotlight had got off lightly. 669 00:55:30,140 --> 00:55:35,060 But then a new case brought fresh scrutiny. 670 00:55:35,100 --> 00:55:37,660 You know, I went paranoid. 671 00:55:37,700 --> 00:55:45,910 Didn't want... Didn't want to speak to nobody. 672 00:55:48,070 --> 00:55:54,430 CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 673 00:55:56,590 --> 00:55:59,190 Can you describe what's happening there? 674 00:55:59,230 --> 00:56:01,470 Just straight away what comes into me mind, you know... 675 00:56:01,510 --> 00:56:03,710 People can take as much as they want, 676 00:56:03,750 --> 00:56:09,510 but the one thing they can't take away from us is memories like that. 677 00:56:09,550 --> 00:56:12,150 Them times were, like, the best times in me life. 678 00:56:12,190 --> 00:56:17,150 Until I started getting hacked and that. 679 00:56:27,510 --> 00:56:28,550 For years, many thought 680 00:56:28,590 --> 00:56:33,470 phone hacking only happened at the News Of The World. 681 00:56:33,510 --> 00:56:36,550 The publisher paying out compensation to its victims, 682 00:56:36,590 --> 00:56:42,230 but each case was settled out of court. 683 00:56:42,270 --> 00:56:46,510 They are not truly sorry, only sorry they got caught. 684 00:56:46,550 --> 00:56:50,350 But then another newspaper group was sucked into the scandal. 685 00:56:50,390 --> 00:56:51,550 In 2015, the publisher of The Mirror 686 00:56:51,590 --> 00:56:59,190 became the first to face a High Court trial in a civil case. 687 00:56:59,230 --> 00:57:01,270 Eight people accused The Mirror of phone hacking. 688 00:57:01,310 --> 00:57:06,710 One of them was Paul Gascoigne. 689 00:57:09,030 --> 00:57:17,870 CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 690 00:57:17,910 --> 00:57:22,190 In the '90s, Britain was gripped by "Gazzamania". 691 00:57:22,230 --> 00:57:24,030 Widely regarded as one of the best footballers 692 00:57:24,070 --> 00:57:28,270 England has ever produced. 693 00:57:28,310 --> 00:57:31,150 Many labelled him a genius. 694 00:57:31,190 --> 00:57:32,190 CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 695 00:57:32,230 --> 00:57:34,550 COMMENTATOR:'Oh, here's Gascoigne. Gascoigne, he can finish it here! 696 00:57:34,590 --> 00:57:41,390 'Paul Gascoigne! 2-0!' 697 00:57:50,910 --> 00:57:52,390 In England, it's brilliant becoming famous, 698 00:57:52,430 --> 00:57:53,910 but once you're famous, 699 00:57:53,950 --> 00:57:58,750 they just try and knock you down as much as they can. 700 00:58:00,670 --> 00:58:02,070 As the '90s came to an end, 701 00:58:02,110 --> 00:58:08,550 injuries and excesses had taken their toll on his career. 702 00:58:08,590 --> 00:58:11,270 There was divorce... 703 00:58:11,310 --> 00:58:14,630 and struggles with alcohol. 704 00:58:14,670 --> 00:58:18,230 I finished playing football, started drinking heavy. 705 00:58:18,270 --> 00:58:22,350 I was in a bad way, to be fair. 706 00:58:22,390 --> 00:58:25,750 He soon found himself in the cross-hairs of the tabloids, 707 00:58:25,790 --> 00:58:28,950 whose fascination with his fall from grace 708 00:58:28,990 --> 00:58:34,910 led to the repeated hacking of his phone to get stories. 709 00:58:34,950 --> 00:58:39,390 You know, I went paranoid, so I went out and bought six phones. 710 00:58:39,430 --> 00:58:41,830 I just kept on changing numbers. 711 00:58:41,870 --> 00:58:44,470 I thought, "Right, fuck it, I'm getting hacked again." 712 00:58:44,510 --> 00:58:48,390 So I'll go and buy another mobile phone and get rid of that one. 713 00:58:48,430 --> 00:58:51,150 And then I got so scared to fucking speak to someone, 714 00:58:51,190 --> 00:58:55,470 I'd check into a hotel room and use the hotel phone. 715 00:58:55,510 --> 00:58:59,110 And, you know, you think, "God, when's it gonna stop?" 716 00:58:59,150 --> 00:59:02,310 Yeah, and then I got, just... I, I become a recluse. 717 00:59:02,350 --> 00:59:09,430 Didn't, didn't wanna speak to nobody. 718 00:59:10,270 --> 00:59:11,310 With every story published, 719 00:59:11,350 --> 00:59:14,590 his suspicions turned on those around him. 720 00:59:14,630 --> 00:59:19,030 Even those he was closest to. 721 00:59:19,070 --> 00:59:22,430 I was just speaking to me mam and dad, just them. 722 00:59:22,470 --> 00:59:24,470 And the next day, it had come out in the papers. 723 00:59:24,510 --> 00:59:26,230 So I went mad, I said, 724 00:59:26,270 --> 00:59:28,870 "What the fuck are you speaking to the papers for?" 725 00:59:28,910 --> 00:59:30,110 They said, "We haven't spoke to 'em." 726 00:59:30,150 --> 00:59:34,670 I says, "You have. You're the only two I've spoke to." 727 00:59:34,710 --> 00:59:36,470 I loved me mam and dad, 728 00:59:36,510 --> 00:59:41,790 so to think they were... thought they were hacking us wasn't good. 729 00:59:41,830 --> 00:59:51,270 HE BREATHES SHAKILY 730 00:59:52,510 --> 00:59:55,270 What did headlines like that do to you? 731 00:59:55,310 --> 00:59:58,150 Oh, it were fucking horrific. 732 00:59:58,190 --> 01:00:00,150 Then eventually, you end up reading the story and thinking, 733 01:00:00,190 --> 01:00:03,990 "Fucking hell, here we go again." 734 01:00:04,030 --> 01:00:08,830 I don't trust anybody any more, and it's sad, that, really. 735 01:00:14,430 --> 01:00:16,310 'In Paul Gascoigne's case against The Mirror Newspapers, 736 01:00:16,350 --> 01:00:19,630 'his legal team submitted 18 articles about him 737 01:00:19,670 --> 01:00:23,110 'published in the early 2000s. 738 01:00:23,150 --> 01:00:24,190 'The newspaper group admitted 739 01:00:24,230 --> 01:00:31,310 'all of them were the product of unlawful information gathering. 740 01:00:31,350 --> 01:00:32,390 'Throughout that time, 741 01:00:32,430 --> 01:00:37,390 'he'd been struggling with addiction and been treated in rehab.' 742 01:00:37,430 --> 01:00:38,470 Do you think that the actions - 743 01:00:38,510 --> 01:00:39,990 the illegal actions - of the tabloids 744 01:00:40,030 --> 01:00:42,590 exacerbated your alcohol problems? 745 01:00:42,630 --> 01:00:44,870 Oh, yeah. Definitely, definitely. 746 01:00:44,910 --> 01:00:46,310 I'd ring me therapist. 747 01:00:46,350 --> 01:00:48,550 I'd say, "Listen, I feel like I'm gonna have a drink 748 01:00:48,590 --> 01:00:50,870 "because I know I'm getting hacked again." 749 01:00:50,910 --> 01:00:52,550 And he just said, "No, Paul, you're just paranoid." 750 01:00:52,590 --> 01:00:55,550 And I'd say, "No, listen, I know I'm getting fucking hacked." 751 01:00:55,590 --> 01:01:00,870 Said, "I ain't stupid. It's happening again." 752 01:01:05,910 --> 01:01:07,830 'Working for a different newspaper, the News Of The World, 753 01:01:07,870 --> 01:01:13,590 'Paul McMullan remembers how Paul Gascoigne was pursued.' 754 01:01:13,630 --> 01:01:17,030 Is there anyone that you now regret targeting? 755 01:01:17,070 --> 01:01:23,470 Yes, I, er... I do regret targeting Paul Gascoigne, 756 01:01:23,510 --> 01:01:25,150 because, A, he was a hero of mine. 757 01:01:25,190 --> 01:01:29,150 He was actually quite a sensitive soul. 758 01:01:29,190 --> 01:01:30,870 I remember one particular evening, 759 01:01:30,910 --> 01:01:34,070 he drove up to visit his dad in Newcastle, 760 01:01:34,110 --> 01:01:36,550 and we turned up with, like, five paparazzi 761 01:01:36,590 --> 01:01:38,430 sitting outside his dad's house. 762 01:01:38,470 --> 01:01:42,630 So he was convinced that his dad or his wife or his kid 763 01:01:42,670 --> 01:01:48,070 had rung up the papers to get, like, five grand to tell him where he was. 764 01:01:48,110 --> 01:01:49,390 And so he went and stayed in a Travelodge 765 01:01:49,430 --> 01:01:51,670 on Christmas Day on his own, and it's like, 766 01:01:51,710 --> 01:01:53,910 "Oh, Gazza, man, it was us. We're just listening to your phone." 767 01:01:53,950 --> 01:01:56,830 You know, "It's not your dad, it's not your daughter, it's not your..." 768 01:01:56,870 --> 01:01:59,950 I mean, suspicion is terrible. 769 01:01:59,990 --> 01:02:01,590 How do you feel about that now? 770 01:02:01,630 --> 01:02:06,110 Oh, I actually feel terrible, you know, I've, er... 771 01:02:06,150 --> 01:02:10,870 And we kind of destroyed his life. 772 01:02:10,910 --> 01:02:13,070 Er, I'm not saying we made him an alcoholic, 773 01:02:13,110 --> 01:02:17,230 but sometimes at the screws, we went too far. 774 01:02:25,070 --> 01:02:26,150 In May 2015, 775 01:02:26,190 --> 01:02:28,990 Paul Gascoigne and the other claimants' case against the Mirror 776 01:02:29,030 --> 01:02:33,550 would conclude with emphatic victory. 777 01:02:33,590 --> 01:02:34,590 It was the first time 778 01:02:34,630 --> 01:02:37,710 a judge had ordered a newspaper group to pay damages, 779 01:02:37,750 --> 01:02:44,750 the victims awarded an unprecedented £1.2 million. 780 01:02:44,790 --> 01:02:48,190 Gascoigne would also settle separately with The Sun in 2021, 781 01:02:48,230 --> 01:02:54,950 without any admission of liability by the paper. 782 01:03:02,630 --> 01:03:03,750 When I've got a fishing rod in my hand, 783 01:03:03,790 --> 01:03:06,230 I stop thinking about everything. 784 01:03:06,270 --> 01:03:08,230 I just concentrate on the fish. 785 01:03:08,270 --> 01:03:10,990 It's only till I put the rod away, 786 01:03:11,030 --> 01:03:13,550 and obviously the problems come back. 787 01:03:13,590 --> 01:03:15,390 That's why I miss football so much 788 01:03:15,430 --> 01:03:18,790 because I think why I was one of the best players in the world, 789 01:03:18,830 --> 01:03:23,070 that 90 minutes, for me, was my freedom. 790 01:03:23,110 --> 01:03:26,990 I could do whatever I wanted for that 90 minutes. 791 01:03:27,030 --> 01:03:32,470 CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 792 01:03:33,990 --> 01:03:36,630 It is a common thread that runs throughout - 793 01:03:36,670 --> 01:03:42,150 a legacy of paranoia and broken relationships. 794 01:03:42,190 --> 01:03:44,070 And none have played out more publicly, perhaps, 795 01:03:44,110 --> 01:03:48,510 than those affecting Prince Harry. 796 01:03:50,150 --> 01:03:51,150 "Harry's girl to dump him." 797 01:03:51,190 --> 01:03:56,070 Seems as though they knew something before I even did. 798 01:03:58,070 --> 01:03:59,070 As well as phone-hacking, 799 01:03:59,110 --> 01:04:02,310 Mirror Group Newspapers commissioned private investigators 800 01:04:02,350 --> 01:04:06,430 to blag the flight information, credit card details or phone bills 801 01:04:06,470 --> 01:04:11,870 of Prince Harry's then-girlfriend Chelsy Davy. 802 01:04:11,910 --> 01:04:16,350 What sort of feelings does a headline like that create in you? 803 01:04:16,390 --> 01:04:19,230 It gives you paranoia and fear and worry, concern, 804 01:04:19,270 --> 01:04:22,110 distrust around the people around you. 805 01:04:22,150 --> 01:04:23,430 Clearly, a headline like that 806 01:04:23,470 --> 01:04:27,710 has absolutely no public interest whatever, whatsoever. 807 01:04:27,750 --> 01:04:29,190 There's a big difference 808 01:04:29,230 --> 01:04:33,150 between what interests the public and what is public interest, 809 01:04:33,190 --> 01:04:37,070 so what happens in my private life between myself and then-girlfriend 810 01:04:37,110 --> 01:04:41,670 is exactly that: between us. 811 01:04:43,390 --> 01:04:44,790 Other victims of hacking that I've spoken to 812 01:04:44,830 --> 01:04:48,390 have described the paranoia that it creates.Mm-hm. 813 01:04:48,430 --> 01:04:49,870 Do you identify with that? 814 01:04:49,910 --> 01:04:53,390 I think paranoia is a... It's a very interesting word, 815 01:04:53,430 --> 01:04:57,150 because, yes, then, it could be paranoia. 816 01:04:57,190 --> 01:04:59,270 But then when you're vindicated, 817 01:04:59,310 --> 01:05:01,710 it proves that you weren't being paranoid. 818 01:05:01,750 --> 01:05:04,310 You know, same with my mother. 819 01:05:04,350 --> 01:05:05,550 You know, there is evidence to suggest 820 01:05:05,590 --> 01:05:09,710 that she was being hacked in the mid-'90s. 821 01:05:09,750 --> 01:05:11,430 Probably one of the first people to be hacked, 822 01:05:11,470 --> 01:05:14,510 and yet still today, the press, the tabloid press, 823 01:05:14,550 --> 01:05:18,590 very much enjoy painting her as being paranoid. 824 01:05:18,630 --> 01:05:21,910 But she wasn't paranoid. 825 01:05:21,950 --> 01:05:25,750 She was absolutely right of what was happening to her. 826 01:05:25,790 --> 01:05:30,510 And she's not around today to find out the truth. 827 01:05:30,550 --> 01:05:32,150 Does your mother motivate you in this legal fight? 828 01:05:32,190 --> 01:05:33,590 Yeah, yeah, er... 829 01:05:33,630 --> 01:05:37,270 There's all sorts of things that motivate me. 830 01:05:37,310 --> 01:05:38,550 'While it's never been proven in court 831 01:05:38,590 --> 01:05:44,510 'that Princess Diana was hacked, the past remains raw.' 832 01:05:44,550 --> 01:05:46,910 Some will question whether there's an element of payback here too. 833 01:05:46,950 --> 01:05:51,270 No, I think, I think... I know that it is clear now to everybody 834 01:05:51,310 --> 01:05:53,950 that the risk of taking on the press 835 01:05:53,990 --> 01:05:59,270 and the risk of such retaliation from them 836 01:05:59,310 --> 01:06:03,550 by taking these claims forward... 837 01:06:03,590 --> 01:06:07,030 It's clearly not in my interest to do that. 838 01:06:07,070 --> 01:06:08,550 Look at what has happened in the last four years 839 01:06:08,590 --> 01:06:10,790 to me, my wife and my family, right? 840 01:06:10,830 --> 01:06:13,070 So that was a very hard decision for me to make, which is, 841 01:06:13,110 --> 01:06:17,190 how bad is it gonna get? 842 01:06:17,230 --> 01:06:18,270 Some people would say that. 843 01:06:18,310 --> 01:06:20,550 You know, you taking on these high-profile battles 844 01:06:20,590 --> 01:06:24,510 actually attracts more attention onto you. 845 01:06:24,550 --> 01:06:27,510 There is more than enough attention on me and my wife anyway. 846 01:06:27,550 --> 01:06:30,550 There was... They pushed me too far. 847 01:06:30,590 --> 01:06:31,750 It got to a point 848 01:06:31,790 --> 01:06:34,950 where you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't. 849 01:06:34,990 --> 01:06:36,470 I don't think there's anybody else in the world 850 01:06:36,510 --> 01:06:38,310 that is better suited and placed 851 01:06:38,350 --> 01:06:41,470 to be able to see this through than myself. 852 01:06:41,510 --> 01:06:42,550 It's still dangerous. 853 01:06:42,590 --> 01:06:47,430 And all it takes is one lone actor, one person who reads this stuff, 854 01:06:47,470 --> 01:06:51,670 to act on what they have read... 855 01:06:51,710 --> 01:06:55,430 And whether it's a knife or acid, whatever it is. 856 01:06:55,470 --> 01:06:57,430 And these are things that are a genuine concern for me. 857 01:06:57,470 --> 01:07:01,790 It's one of the reasons why I won't bring my wife back to this country. 858 01:07:01,830 --> 01:07:04,870 Both your father and your sister-in-law have been unwell. 859 01:07:04,910 --> 01:07:07,710 It's a reminder, I guess, to all of us that life is precious. 860 01:07:07,750 --> 01:07:12,550 Does it ever just make you think, 861 01:07:12,590 --> 01:07:16,510 "This is not worth it. Life is just too short for these legal battles"? 862 01:07:16,550 --> 01:07:17,590 Erm, I don't think the legal, 863 01:07:17,630 --> 01:07:21,590 the continuation of these legal battles is the sort of, I... 864 01:07:21,630 --> 01:07:23,870 The two things are completely separate. 865 01:07:23,910 --> 01:07:26,070 Erm, you know, my father and my sister-in-law, 866 01:07:26,110 --> 01:07:29,310 and me, you know, following through on these legal battles 867 01:07:26,830 --> 01:07:47,940 I felt such a strong connection. 868 01:07:29,350 --> 01:07:34,470 are two completely different things. 869 01:07:34,510 --> 01:07:39,670 The scars run deep, from the personal to the political, 870 01:07:39,710 --> 01:07:41,190 with claims unlawful tactics 871 01:07:55,420 --> 01:07:58,780 I think the press had enormous power at that time, 872 01:07:58,820 --> 01:08:01,900 and I think it's a lesson for all of us that we're in a democracy, 873 01:08:01,940 --> 01:08:06,780 and it's the people, not the press, that must rule. 874 01:08:10,420 --> 01:08:14,140 In 2007, just as the phone hacking scandal was starting to emerge, 875 01:08:14,180 --> 01:08:21,220 Gordon Brown became Prime Minister. 876 01:08:21,260 --> 01:08:23,740 At that time, amidst a frenzy of unlawful information gathering, 877 01:08:23,780 --> 01:08:26,420 it's claimed no-one was safe, 878 01:08:26,460 --> 01:08:30,780 not even the inhabitant of Number 10. 879 01:08:31,460 --> 01:08:37,220 There seemed to be no limits to what this group would do. 880 01:08:37,260 --> 01:08:39,740 The intention was obviously to embarrass, 881 01:08:39,780 --> 01:08:42,580 or even to get rid of me. 882 01:08:42,620 --> 01:08:46,140 Much of it has only become known to me in the last year or two. 883 01:08:46,180 --> 01:08:47,180 He claims he was targeted 884 01:08:47,220 --> 01:08:52,260 by journalists from Rupert Murdoch's News Group Newspapers. 885 01:08:52,300 --> 01:08:54,020 My bank account was broken into, 886 01:08:54,060 --> 01:08:56,180 my building society account was broken into, 887 01:08:56,220 --> 01:09:00,220 my gas bill, my electricity bill, my telecommunications bill. 888 01:09:00,260 --> 01:09:01,260 I know that they tried 889 01:09:01,300 --> 01:09:03,220 to get information from the police computer about me. 890 01:09:03,260 --> 01:09:05,660 All these things happened to me 891 01:09:05,700 --> 01:09:09,420 during the period I was Chancellor and Prime Minister. 892 01:09:09,460 --> 01:09:11,580 He's been accusing the company since the Leveson Inquiry, 893 01:09:11,620 --> 01:09:15,180 but they strongly deny all of this. 894 01:09:15,220 --> 01:09:17,180 The former Prime Minister believes he was being spied on 895 01:09:17,220 --> 01:09:22,260 as the country was facing difficult times. 896 01:09:22,300 --> 01:09:24,620 We still don't know the extent of the surveillance. 897 01:09:24,660 --> 01:09:27,260 If, of course, when you're talking about national security, 898 01:09:27,300 --> 01:09:29,980 you're talking about, at that time, 899 01:09:30,020 --> 01:09:33,460 Afghanistan and Iraq being military exercises, 900 01:09:33,500 --> 01:09:37,700 you're talking also about, uh, very confidential information 901 01:09:37,740 --> 01:09:39,820 about the state of the banking industry 902 01:09:39,860 --> 01:09:41,700 during the financial crisis. 903 01:09:41,740 --> 01:09:43,740 If any of that, we find, was being tapped, 904 01:09:43,780 --> 01:09:46,060 then that would become a serious national security issue 905 01:09:46,100 --> 01:09:50,620 that has to be further investigated. 906 01:09:50,660 --> 01:09:52,660 We can see calls going into the mobile phone of Gordon Brown 907 01:09:52,700 --> 01:09:55,940 when he was Chancellor of the Exchequer and Prime Minister. 908 01:09:55,980 --> 01:09:59,180 The Murdoch Company wants to say, 909 01:09:59,220 --> 01:10:02,660 "Well, these may have been legitimate calls from journalists." 910 01:10:02,700 --> 01:10:03,740 But just imagine the picture. 911 01:10:03,780 --> 01:10:05,860 You're a journalist there trying to write a story, and you think, 912 01:10:05,900 --> 01:10:06,940 "Ah, I need to check a fact. 913 01:10:06,980 --> 01:10:11,340 "I know, I'll call the Prime Minister. He'll tell me!" 914 01:10:11,380 --> 01:10:13,580 While some have been punished over the years, 915 01:10:13,620 --> 01:10:17,100 many argue that if senior figures at the tabloids gave the orders, 916 01:10:17,140 --> 01:10:24,420 they have, quite frankly, got away with it. 917 01:10:24,460 --> 01:10:27,020 There have been multiple police operations. 918 01:10:27,060 --> 01:10:32,700 REPORTER:'Once, Andy Coulson was a king amongst the press pack.' 919 01:10:32,740 --> 01:10:34,940 And in 2013, a dramatic trial, 920 01:10:34,980 --> 01:10:36,660 where former Editor of the News Of The World, 921 01:10:36,700 --> 01:10:39,100 Andy Coulson, was convicted, 922 01:10:39,140 --> 01:10:43,900 and the editor before him, Rebekah Brooks, was cleared. 923 01:10:43,940 --> 01:10:48,860 I am innocent of the crimes that I was charged with. 924 01:10:48,900 --> 01:10:50,700 But in total, in a story with thousands of victims, 925 01:10:50,740 --> 01:10:54,100 just eight journalists and a single senior news figure 926 01:10:54,140 --> 01:10:59,060 have been convicted. 927 01:10:59,100 --> 01:11:01,620 Anyone with a sense of fair play would have to conclude 928 01:11:01,660 --> 01:11:05,060 that it's unfair that so few people 929 01:11:05,100 --> 01:11:09,660 appear to have been found guilty and paid the price 930 01:11:09,700 --> 01:11:17,900 for what was an industry-wide, or at least tabloid-wide, crime. 931 01:11:17,940 --> 01:11:20,740 I don't hold massive grievances against the foot soldiers 932 01:11:20,780 --> 01:11:23,260 or these guys who did this stuff. 933 01:11:23,300 --> 01:11:25,180 Not against them. 934 01:11:25,220 --> 01:11:27,780 But I remain bitter and determined to exact justice 935 01:11:27,820 --> 01:11:34,940 on the executives who commissioned this stuff. 936 01:11:34,980 --> 01:11:38,580 Some argue that few faced justice because of a police reluctance 937 01:11:38,620 --> 01:11:43,540 to take on those at the helm of the powerful newspapers. 938 01:11:43,580 --> 01:11:45,380 The police, to an extent, the Met in particular, 939 01:11:45,420 --> 01:11:48,500 were, you know, had to be dragged screaming and shouting 940 01:11:48,540 --> 01:11:51,660 into investigating. 941 01:11:51,700 --> 01:11:53,340 There's a mixture of police incompetence 942 01:11:53,380 --> 01:11:58,380 and police cosiness with certain newspapers. 943 01:11:58,420 --> 01:12:05,580 There was almost a mutual back-scratching relationship. 944 01:12:05,620 --> 01:12:07,420 The relationship between the press and the police 945 01:12:07,460 --> 01:12:10,980 was due to be scrutinised in the second part of the Leveson Inquiry. 946 01:12:11,020 --> 01:12:17,580 But it was dropped by the Conservative Government in 2018. 947 01:12:17,620 --> 01:12:22,260 Michael, not his real name, is a former undercover police officer. 948 01:12:22,300 --> 01:12:25,100 In the late '90s, he infiltrated a private investigation firm 949 01:12:25,140 --> 01:12:27,460 to gather evidence about a different crime, 950 01:12:27,500 --> 01:12:30,140 but soon learnt about the work the company was doing 951 01:12:30,180 --> 01:12:35,820 for some of the tabloids, including The News Of The World. 952 01:12:35,860 --> 01:12:38,620 If it earned money, they would do it. 953 01:12:38,660 --> 01:12:43,220 They were associated with criminals, corruption, corrupt police officers 954 01:12:43,260 --> 01:12:45,460 to a high level. 955 01:12:45,500 --> 01:12:48,380 They would actually brag, "There's nothing we can't get hold of. 956 01:12:48,420 --> 01:12:50,820 "We can even get hold of the Queen's medical records!" 957 01:12:50,860 --> 01:12:54,180 They would mention things about burglaries. 958 01:12:54,220 --> 01:12:57,500 I was even asked once if I would do a burglary for them. 959 01:12:57,540 --> 01:13:03,860 And they had tentacles into everything. 960 01:13:03,900 --> 01:13:06,060 Michael spent almost a decade undercover, 961 01:13:06,100 --> 01:13:09,460 reporting everything back to his bosses at The Met. 962 01:13:09,500 --> 01:13:10,740 But even whilst Scotland Yard 963 01:13:10,780 --> 01:13:13,540 was investigating phone hacking at the News Of The World, 964 01:13:13,580 --> 01:13:14,540 owned by News International, 965 01:13:14,580 --> 01:13:18,620 he says his intelligence was ignored. 966 01:13:18,660 --> 01:13:21,820 What do you think about the fact that nothing happened for so long? 967 01:13:21,860 --> 01:13:24,140 My honest opinion 968 01:13:24,180 --> 01:13:28,420 why they tried to tidy it up and sweep it under the carpet 969 01:13:28,460 --> 01:13:33,620 was because it involved the Metropolitan Police's reputation. 970 01:13:33,660 --> 01:13:38,740 Senior officers were too close to News International. 971 01:13:38,780 --> 01:13:40,700 So I think that's what it was. 972 01:13:40,740 --> 01:13:47,540 The Yard covered it up. 973 01:13:47,580 --> 01:13:49,700 Perhaps another reason some have not been brought to justice 974 01:13:49,740 --> 01:13:55,420 is that potential evidence has quite simply disappeared. 975 01:13:55,460 --> 01:13:56,940 Yes, it's the unlawful information gathering, 976 01:13:56,980 --> 01:14:01,700 but the biggest piece to this is the cover-up. 977 01:14:01,740 --> 01:14:03,260 It's been claimed, at the height of the scandal, 978 01:14:03,300 --> 01:14:06,940 senior figures at Rupert Murdoch's News Group Newspapers 979 01:14:06,980 --> 01:14:12,300 tried to conceal wrongdoing. 980 01:14:12,340 --> 01:14:15,020 It was back in 2010, just a few months before the Met Police 981 01:14:15,060 --> 01:14:20,900 launched its biggest operation yet. 982 01:14:20,940 --> 01:14:24,140 The Murdoch company destroyed over 30 million emails 983 01:14:24,180 --> 01:14:29,060 during a period of about six months. 984 01:14:29,100 --> 01:14:30,620 People were beginning to sue, 985 01:14:30,660 --> 01:14:33,020 and Sienna Miller in particular was suing, 986 01:14:33,060 --> 01:14:35,420 and her lawyer had sent a letter to the Murdoch company saying, 987 01:14:35,460 --> 01:14:38,380 "You must preserve evidence." 988 01:14:38,420 --> 01:14:46,460 They destroyed all of the emails up to the end of 2004. 989 01:14:46,500 --> 01:14:50,860 News Group Newspapers fiercely deny deliberately deleting any evidence 990 01:14:50,900 --> 01:14:52,580 and have said the company was carrying out 991 01:14:52,620 --> 01:14:57,860 a long-scheduled clear-out of old computer servers. 992 01:14:57,900 --> 01:15:01,220 It's very hard to accept the Murdoch Company explanation. 993 01:15:01,260 --> 01:15:06,540 I think that because of the timing, at least, we all are allowed to say, 994 01:15:06,580 --> 01:15:13,060 "Are you sure about that? Because it really does look suspicious." 995 01:15:13,100 --> 01:15:14,340 Both the Crown Prosecution Service 996 01:15:14,380 --> 01:15:16,100 and the judge in Rebekah Brooks' trial 997 01:15:16,140 --> 01:15:18,500 found no evidence of wrongdoing. 998 01:15:18,540 --> 01:15:24,100 But Gordon Brown says new information has since come to light. 999 01:15:24,140 --> 01:15:26,380 It is clear to me that we were not told the full truth. 1000 01:15:26,420 --> 01:15:30,420 This is a cause for a criminal investigation, 1001 01:15:30,460 --> 01:15:32,620 and I want the Metropolitan Police 1002 01:15:32,660 --> 01:15:35,700 to reopen their investigations into what happened. 1003 01:15:35,740 --> 01:15:36,740 The truth is important 1004 01:15:36,780 --> 01:15:41,900 because we are talking about basic civil liberties. 1005 01:15:43,860 --> 01:15:46,580 Until then, those chasing justice must pin their hopes 1006 01:15:46,620 --> 01:15:51,500 on getting a damning verdict through the civil courts. 1007 01:15:51,540 --> 01:15:54,220 Prince Harry and others are due to take on The Sun next year. 1008 01:15:54,260 --> 01:15:57,540 The paper's publisher have so far avoided trial 1009 01:15:57,580 --> 01:16:00,860 by offering huge settlements without accepting liability, 1010 01:16:00,900 --> 01:16:04,540 as they did with Hugh Grant. 1011 01:16:04,580 --> 01:16:05,660 If you're innocent, 1012 01:16:05,700 --> 01:16:09,100 why do you shove so much money at someone not to go to court? 1013 01:16:09,140 --> 01:16:11,620 He had been determined to take his case all the way to trial, 1014 01:16:11,660 --> 01:16:14,980 but settled in recent months. 1015 01:16:15,020 --> 01:16:16,060 The rules of civil litigation 1016 01:16:16,100 --> 01:16:19,140 are designed to prevent cases going to court. 1017 01:16:19,180 --> 01:16:21,340 They want to keep the courts unclogged, 1018 01:16:21,380 --> 01:16:24,140 and therefore, if you turn down a big settlement, 1019 01:16:24,180 --> 01:16:26,220 say, "I want my day in court," and you go on, 1020 01:16:26,260 --> 01:16:31,100 and the judge finally, at the end of the trial, says, 1021 01:16:31,140 --> 01:16:33,340 "I find in your favour, Mr Grant, but I'm giving you this settlement," 1022 01:16:33,380 --> 01:16:35,780 and if it's one penny less than that settlement 1023 01:16:35,820 --> 01:16:39,140 that you were offered by the other side earlier, months earlier, 1024 01:16:39,180 --> 01:16:41,660 you have to pay both sides' costs, 1025 01:16:41,700 --> 01:16:45,100 which, I was advised in this case, would be about ten million quid. 1026 01:16:45,140 --> 01:16:49,420 And, much as I want these things to come to light in a trial, 1027 01:16:49,460 --> 01:16:56,900 I shied at that fence, ten million quid. It's too much. 1028 01:16:56,940 --> 01:16:58,060 Meanwhile, Prince Harry's case - 1029 01:16:58,100 --> 01:17:03,100 accusing The Sun of unlawful information gathering - continues. 1030 01:17:03,140 --> 01:17:07,660 Are you determined to go all the way to trial? Whatever the cost? 1031 01:17:07,700 --> 01:17:10,300 Erm, that is the plan. 1032 01:17:10,340 --> 01:17:11,420 If I can get to trial, 1033 01:17:11,460 --> 01:17:15,020 then we're talking over a decade's worth of evidence, 1034 01:17:15,060 --> 01:17:19,500 most of which has never, ever been known to the public. 1035 01:17:19,540 --> 01:17:22,340 That's the goal. 1036 01:17:22,380 --> 01:17:24,340 'There are accusations flying on both sides. 1037 01:17:24,380 --> 01:17:28,060 'Recently, Prince Harry was asked to explain how some of his own messages 1038 01:17:28,100 --> 01:17:32,460 'were apparently "destroyed" - a judge ordering him to search 1039 01:17:32,500 --> 01:17:37,380 'for deleted online exchanges with his biographer.' 1040 01:17:37,420 --> 01:17:39,500 Some will say there have been multiple criminal investigations. 1041 01:17:39,540 --> 01:17:41,980 There have been convictions. 1042 01:17:42,020 --> 01:17:44,180 Millions of pounds have been paid out in compensation. 1043 01:17:44,220 --> 01:17:47,540 Some will wonder, why are you still fighting? 1044 01:17:47,580 --> 01:17:51,980 Because that evidence needs to come to the surface, 1045 01:17:52,020 --> 01:17:55,700 and then after that, the police can then make their mind up 1046 01:17:55,740 --> 01:18:00,500 because this country and the British public deserve better. 1047 01:18:00,540 --> 01:18:02,180 'Prince Harry's mission stands in stark contrast 1048 01:18:02,220 --> 01:18:03,700 'to his brother's approach. 1049 01:18:03,740 --> 01:18:08,380 'In 2020, Prince William reportedly settled out of court 1050 01:18:08,420 --> 01:18:10,900 'with News Group Newspapers 1051 01:18:10,940 --> 01:18:15,780 'for what's been described as "a very large sum of money".' 1052 01:18:15,820 --> 01:18:16,820 To what extent do you think 1053 01:18:16,860 --> 01:18:18,340 that your determination to fight the tabloids 1054 01:18:18,380 --> 01:18:21,780 destroyed the relationship with your family? 1055 01:18:21,820 --> 01:18:26,100 I think there's, yeah, I... That's certainly an essential piece to it. 1056 01:18:26,140 --> 01:18:29,860 But, you know, they, er... 1057 01:18:29,900 --> 01:18:32,420 It's a hard question to answer 1058 01:18:32,460 --> 01:18:34,700 because anything I say about my family 1059 01:18:34,740 --> 01:18:38,380 results in a torrent of abuse from the press. 1060 01:18:38,420 --> 01:18:43,540 I've made it very clear that this is something that needs to be done. 1061 01:18:43,580 --> 01:18:46,100 It would be nice if we, you know, did it as a family. 1062 01:18:46,140 --> 01:18:49,340 I believe that, again, from a service standpoint, 1063 01:18:49,380 --> 01:18:51,140 and when you are in a public role, 1064 01:18:51,180 --> 01:18:52,700 that these are the things that we should be doing 1065 01:18:52,740 --> 01:18:54,380 for the greater good. 1066 01:18:54,420 --> 01:18:58,940 But, you know, I'm doing this, I'm doing this for my reasons. 1067 01:18:58,980 --> 01:19:00,300 What do you think of their decision 1068 01:19:00,340 --> 01:19:02,340 not to fight in the way that you have? 1069 01:19:02,380 --> 01:19:04,420 I think everything that's played out 1070 01:19:04,460 --> 01:19:10,060 has shown people what the truth of the matter is. 1071 01:19:10,100 --> 01:19:13,860 For me, the mission continues, but it has, it has, yes... 1072 01:19:13,900 --> 01:19:18,340 It's caused, as you say, part of a rift. 1073 01:19:18,380 --> 01:19:19,780 You said in court documents that The Queen - 1074 01:19:19,820 --> 01:19:23,940 your granny, as you call her - supported your claim. 1075 01:19:23,980 --> 01:19:26,660 What do you think she would think of what you're doing now? 1076 01:19:26,700 --> 01:19:30,060 We had many conversations before she passed. 1077 01:19:30,100 --> 01:19:33,260 This is very much something that she supported. 1078 01:19:33,300 --> 01:19:39,220 She knew how much this meant to me, and she's very much up there going, 1079 01:19:39,260 --> 01:19:43,860 "See this through to the end," without question. 1080 01:19:43,900 --> 01:19:45,420 And this is far from over for the Prince. 1081 01:19:45,460 --> 01:19:49,700 On the horizon is another civil claim against the publisher 1082 01:19:49,740 --> 01:19:52,500 of The Daily Mail and The Mail On Sunday, 1083 01:19:52,540 --> 01:19:54,580 accused of hiring private investigators 1084 01:19:54,620 --> 01:19:57,780 to bug properties, tap landlines, 1085 01:19:57,820 --> 01:20:02,260 and blag private medical and bank records. 1086 01:20:02,300 --> 01:20:03,420 It's the first time the news group 1087 01:20:03,460 --> 01:20:07,260 has been taken to court in this scandal. 1088 01:20:07,300 --> 01:20:10,700 The looming case being brought by Prince Harry and others 1089 01:20:10,740 --> 01:20:14,740 is potentially the most serious of all. 1090 01:20:14,780 --> 01:20:16,700 The Daily Mail Group have strenuously denied wrongdoing, 1091 01:20:16,740 --> 01:20:20,740 and none of their journalists have ever been prosecuted. 1092 01:20:20,780 --> 01:20:26,100 So if, and it's a very big "if", that one went wrong for The Mail, 1093 01:20:26,140 --> 01:20:33,420 it would be hugely, hugely embarrassing. 1094 01:20:33,460 --> 01:20:35,820 Alongside Prince Harry are six other claimants, 1095 01:20:35,860 --> 01:20:39,140 including Baroness Doreen Lawrence, 1096 01:20:39,180 --> 01:20:43,260 whose son Stephen was murdered in a racist attack in the '90s. 1097 01:20:43,300 --> 01:20:45,580 She praised The Daily Mail 1098 01:20:45,620 --> 01:20:47,860 for supporting her "struggle for justice" 1099 01:20:47,900 --> 01:20:52,820 with this famous campaigning front page. 1100 01:20:52,860 --> 01:20:55,780 The Mail presented themselves as the champions of the Lawrence family, 1101 01:20:55,820 --> 01:20:59,220 and if the court finds that there is persuasive evidence 1102 01:20:59,260 --> 01:21:05,020 that Doreen Lawrence was targeted by unlawful means by The Daily Mail, 1103 01:21:05,060 --> 01:21:09,580 that would be an act of such grotesque dishonesty and hypocrisy 1104 01:21:09,620 --> 01:21:14,220 that it would produce, I think, national revulsion. 1105 01:21:14,260 --> 01:21:15,460 REPORTER:Good afternoon, Harry. 1106 01:21:15,500 --> 01:21:18,860 What do you hope to change through this court battle, Harry? 1107 01:21:18,900 --> 01:21:22,940 The repercussions of all this are a long way from subsiding. 1108 01:21:22,980 --> 01:21:29,980 For Prince Harry and others, the fight continues. 1109 01:21:30,020 --> 01:21:33,740 When people are damaged, they don't just shut up shop and go away. 1110 01:21:33,780 --> 01:21:37,020 If people are damaged, and they feel 1111 01:21:37,060 --> 01:21:40,460 they have the possibility of getting some kind of satisfaction, 1112 01:21:40,500 --> 01:21:44,140 and particularly if they have the resources to do so, 1113 01:21:44,180 --> 01:21:49,740 they will go on and they will go on until they get satisfaction. 1114 01:21:49,780 --> 01:21:55,700 Subtitles by accessibility@itv.com 130002

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