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NARRATOR:
A housewife
who convinced millions
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to share their sightings.
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LINDA MOULTON HOWE:
Coral Lorenzen
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is one of the earliest
people who said
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there is something serious
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about these objects in the sky.
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NARRATOR:
A scientist who uncovered
shocking new evidence
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about a crashed UFO.
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RICHARD DOLAN:
Stanton Friedman,
more than any one other person,
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opened up Roswell
for the rest of the world.
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NARRATOR:
An astronomer
who documented close encounters
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for the U.S. military.
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PAUL HYNEK:
My father really was convinced
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that there was just something
that was too legitimate
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to ignore.
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NARRATOR:
Ancient astronaut theorist
Giorgio Tsoukalos,
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author David Childress,
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and former British Ministry
of Defence
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officer Nick Pope,
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have come together to examine
the groundbreaking work
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of pioneering researchers,
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investigators,
and whistleblowers
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who dared to challenge
the scientific establishment
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and changed the world.
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POPE:
Without Jacques Vallée,
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we probably wouldn't be
having this discussion.
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NARRATOR:
But does the final chapter
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of their story
remain to be written?
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Will it soon be revealed,
once and for all,
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that Earth is being visited
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by extraterrestrials?
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You have to wonder
where does this all lead
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and will we soon
come closer to the truth?
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♪
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NARRATOR:
There is a doorway
in the universe...
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...beyond it
is the promise of truth.
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It demands
we question everything
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we have ever been taught.
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The evidence is all around us.
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The future is
right before our eyes.
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We are not alone.
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We have never been alone.
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I'm excited to be here
with you guys
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talking about
the modern UFO phenomenon.
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The paradigm
has certainly shifted
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because 20 years ago
it was always deny, deny, deny.
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So, you know, I think that
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we are living
in incredibly exciting times.
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We are. Absolutely.
And this, of course,
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is part of a wider
interconnected story.
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Revelation after revelation
from the government itself.
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I also would
offer that Ancient Aliens
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has contributed
to this paradigm shift
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where people
are now comfortable
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in telling their stories,
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their experiences
that they've had.
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The so-called zeitgeist
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has changed in our favor.
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And I really think
that with whatever is going on
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in the modern UFO phenomenon
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is directly
connected to ancient times.
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Well, the UFO phenomenon
has been going on
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for thousands of years
with historical texts
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talking about UFOs.
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Even in the Middle Ages
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you find stories
that were printed
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in what they
used to call broad sheets
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of UFOs, like, for example,
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in Nuremberg or in Basel.
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And they actually
have reproductions
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of what they saw
up in the skies.
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Clearly, they did not have
photographs back then
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but they had drawings.
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And the way these things
are being reported today
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is because
we have the technology.
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♪
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NARRATOR:
People have reported
strange sightings in the sky
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since the earliest
recorded history.
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For thousands of years,
such encounters
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were conveyed
through oral traditions,
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texts and artwork.
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But then, in 1839,
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French artist Louis Daguerre
provided humankind
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with a powerful new technology:
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the daguerreotype.
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It was the first publicly
available photographic process,
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and suddenly
people were able to share
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the exact images
they saw with their own eyes.
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Just three decades later,
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the world got its first
alleged UFO photo.
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The very first photo
that we have of a UFO
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is of a-a huge
cylindrical craft
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over Mount Washington
in New Hampshire taken in 1870
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right at the very
beginning of photography.
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DOLAN: You see this cloud
formation up at Mount Washington
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and you see this very
obvious cigar-shaped object.
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Of course, many UFO reports
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described cigar-shaped objects.
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Is the photograph authentic?
And turns out it is.
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NARRATOR:
As technology
evolved over the late 1800s
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and early 1900s,
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so did humankind's understanding
of many long-held assumptions.
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Instead of linking
strange events in the sky
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with the divine,
a few inquisitive minds
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proposed a profound
new explanation.
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That intelligent beings
from other planets,
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who possess technology
far beyond our own,
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were visiting our world.
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One of the first
to investigate this possibility
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was an American
writer and researcher
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named Charles Fort.
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MITCH HOROWITZ:
People have written about
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strange lights
in the sky before.
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But Fort was probably
the first person in modern life
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who assembled the stories
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into his books
in a systematic way.
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Fort saw it as his job to poke
holes in the straight story
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of science as it was
developing at that time,
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and it demonstrated
that there was a whole world
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of strange unexplained
persistent phenomena.
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NARRATOR:
In 1919, Fort published
his landmark collection
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of anomalous incidents
and strange sightings.
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He called it
The Book of the Damned.
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DOLAN:
Now what he meant by that
is all of the data
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that he incorporated and
put into that book was damned
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by the scientific
world of-of his time.
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That's the whole point. This was
data that no one would look at.
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NARRATOR:
Today the term "Fortean"
continues to be used
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to describe events
that cannot be explained
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by conventional science.
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But it would take
25 years and a world war
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for researchers to examine
Fort's accounts more closely.
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So a lot of the modern
UFO phenomenon really started
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during the second World War.
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We had a couple of-of things,
aspects to this.
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The Battle of Los Angeles--
an amazing event
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where upwards of 1,400, uh,
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anti-aircraft shells
were fired into the air
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at something that had been
hovering over Los Angeles.
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And there's a photo as well.
There's a classic photo...
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-CHILDRESS: It was on the front
page of the L.A. Times.
-POPE: Yeah.
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Then you have
these pilots who see
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strange balls of light
called foo fighters,
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and I couldn't talk about UFOs
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without, of course,
mentioning one word:
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-Roswell.
-Mm-hmm.
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POPE:
The military
issues a press release
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which says we've recovered
a flying disc.
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So you have these events
coming thick and fast,
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but who's collating it all?
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We should never forget
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that, uh,
maybe we have it easy now.
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We have this vast body of work
that we can build on,
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and one of the great pioneers
of this subject,
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who did so much to bring it
into the mainstream,
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was Coral Lorenzen.
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NARRATOR:
By the 1950s,
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thousands of UFO sightings
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were being reported
around the country.
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But while most
dismissed these accounts
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as little more than curiosity,
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one woman in Arizona
took them seriously:
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a 35-year-old housewife
named Coral Lorenzen.
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When Coral Lorenzen
was nine years old,
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she had her first UFO sighting
in a playground
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with two friends.
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She stated that
the craft reminded her
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of a parachute without strings.
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After her experiences,
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what she wanted to do
was kind of nail this down
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on a scientific basis
not just woo-woo stuff.
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NARRATOR:
Working out of their home,
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Coral and
her husband Jim founded
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the Aerial Phenomenon
Research Organization, or APRO,
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the world's first
public investigation of UFOs.
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Using little more
than her wits and a telephone,
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Coral collected thousands
of unpublished reports
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from witnesses
around the country.
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To rule out planes
and unusual weather
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as the cause
of the sightings,
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Coral judiciously
cross-referenced these accounts
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by contacting local airfields
and military bases.
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BILL BIRNES:
What she was able to do was
show there were commonalities
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among UFO sightings,
there were things that UFOs did
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and that observers saw
that stretched across
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different cultures and different
parts of the United States.
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NARRATOR:
Eventually, Coral's organization
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grew to have
thousands of members
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and collected reports
from around the world.
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MARDEN:
The organization
started out small,
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but as its reputation grew,
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she was able to attract
many scientists
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and also people
in the Air Force
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from other countries.
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NARRATOR:
Considered one of the
best civilian research groups
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of its time,
Coral Lorenzen oversaw
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the Aerial Phenomena
Research Organization
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for more than three decades
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until her death in 1988.
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She set up this group
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with thousands of members,
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and she was really
pulling all this together.
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They had representatives
in different states in the U.S.,
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in different countries, too.
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Of course,
APRO as a group,
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uh, wound up in 1988,
I think it was,
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but, of course, MUFON--
the Mutual UFO Network--
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is a spinoff of APRO.
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So she was really cataloging
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a wide variety
of UFO activity
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all over the world.
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What was
the reaction back then
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when she would call
the Air Force bases?
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Would they readily talk to her
or would they stonewall her?
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She hit some brick walls,
and people were probably saying
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in the military,
"Who the heck is this?"
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But she was tenacious.
She was-- look.
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Here's this woman
blazing this trail.
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Starting almost
this whole field of study
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which-which
we now see today.
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Nick, can you tell us
about your work
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at the British
Ministry of Defence?
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Sure. I worked there
for 21 years.
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And from
1991 through to 1994,
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I ran their
small UFO program.
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My job was to research
and investigate the phenomenon,
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to determine whether
there was anything
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of any defense significance,
uh, any threat,
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anything of more general
scientific interest.
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Were you the first person
to have that position
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or was there
somebody before you?
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Oh, many,
many people before me.
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Uh, we-we had been
looking at this,
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um, on an ad hoc basis
since the second World War,
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And what were some
of the challenges
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that you were faced with
in order to determine
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what was
a valid sighting?
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I mean, was there a certain
protocol to the work you did?
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Well, there were
many challenges,
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but the-the protocols
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were actually quite set.
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We had
a standard methodology
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00:12:06,029 --> 00:12:10,425
very closely modeled
on the United States
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00:12:10,468 --> 00:12:12,862
methodologies developed,
in part,
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by Dr. J. Allen Hynek.
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NARRATOR:
In 1948, Dr. J. Allen Hynek
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00:12:19,869 --> 00:12:22,872
was working as the professor
of physics and astronomy
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00:12:22,916 --> 00:12:25,048
at Ohio State University
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00:12:25,092 --> 00:12:27,703
when he received
an unusual job offer.
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00:12:27,747 --> 00:12:30,401
The U.S. Air Force
approached him
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00:12:30,445 --> 00:12:33,796
to investigate UFO sightings.
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00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,756
Reluctantly,
he joined the special operation
253
00:12:36,799 --> 00:12:39,846
which would become known as
Project Blue Book.
254
00:12:41,151 --> 00:12:43,937
At the beginning, I think my
father thought this would be
255
00:12:43,980 --> 00:12:45,939
a few weekends'
worth of work
256
00:12:45,982 --> 00:12:48,768
just to pooh-pooh
some flying saucer reports
257
00:12:48,811 --> 00:12:52,119
from, you know,
Mrs. Jones out in Poughkeepsie.
258
00:12:54,077 --> 00:12:56,079
NARRATOR:
Despite his skepticism,
259
00:12:56,123 --> 00:12:59,953
Dr. Hynek approached the
assignment with an open mind.
260
00:12:59,996 --> 00:13:01,955
As part of
his investigations,
261
00:13:01,998 --> 00:13:05,872
he pioneered new ways
of studying aerial phenomena.
262
00:13:06,873 --> 00:13:08,744
Rather than
combing through reports,
263
00:13:08,788 --> 00:13:11,573
Dr. Hynek personally
investigated sightings
264
00:13:11,616 --> 00:13:14,794
and interviewed eyewitnesses
across the country.
265
00:13:16,143 --> 00:13:18,754
Based on his research,
he developed a new system
266
00:13:18,798 --> 00:13:21,409
to categorize UFO sightings.
267
00:13:21,452 --> 00:13:23,890
He came up with
a classification system
268
00:13:23,933 --> 00:13:28,068
of close encounters of the
first, second and third kind.
269
00:13:29,069 --> 00:13:31,941
A close encounter
of the first kind
270
00:13:31,985 --> 00:13:35,118
is when you see an object
within, say, 500 feet.
271
00:13:36,119 --> 00:13:38,426
A close encounter
of the second kind
272
00:13:38,469 --> 00:13:40,689
is when there's some kind
of physical trace,
273
00:13:40,732 --> 00:13:42,909
maybe some irradiated dirt.
274
00:13:42,952 --> 00:13:44,824
A close encounter
of the third kind
275
00:13:44,867 --> 00:13:47,435
is where you
actually have contact
276
00:13:47,478 --> 00:13:49,829
with some type of entity.
277
00:13:52,744 --> 00:13:55,095
NARRATOR:
Dr. Hynek's
meticulous application
278
00:13:55,138 --> 00:13:57,967
of the scientific method
in his investigations
279
00:13:58,011 --> 00:14:01,144
enabled him to dismiss
many alleged sightings
280
00:14:01,188 --> 00:14:05,061
as aircraft,
meteors or even stars.
281
00:14:05,714 --> 00:14:09,631
But, curiously, of the more
than 12,000 UFO sightings
282
00:14:09,674 --> 00:14:12,155
Dr. Hynek's
office investigated,
283
00:14:12,199 --> 00:14:16,856
701 remained categorized
as "unidentified."
284
00:14:17,900 --> 00:14:20,772
HYNEK:
What my father
was fascinated by
285
00:14:20,816 --> 00:14:23,558
were this irreducible core
286
00:14:23,601 --> 00:14:27,518
of five percent of cases
that could not be explained.
287
00:14:27,562 --> 00:14:29,651
There was
just something that was
288
00:14:29,694 --> 00:14:32,828
too legitimate to ignore.
289
00:14:33,873 --> 00:14:37,877
For many, many years,
Hynek really just
290
00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:41,924
played the Air Force's
party line on UFOs.
291
00:14:41,968 --> 00:14:45,667
But, finally, as you're really
getting into the 1960s,
292
00:14:45,710 --> 00:14:47,887
1966 and '67,
293
00:14:47,930 --> 00:14:50,628
Hynek makes
his public position clear
294
00:14:50,672 --> 00:14:52,935
that this
is a serious phenomenon.
295
00:14:52,979 --> 00:14:56,852
HYNEK:
That set up a really difficult
tension because the Air Force
296
00:14:56,896 --> 00:14:59,681
was getting more sort of
stonewalling in their attitude,
297
00:14:59,724 --> 00:15:02,684
and my father really
was convinced that there was
298
00:15:02,727 --> 00:15:05,252
a phenomena, but really
wanted the word to get out.
299
00:15:06,993 --> 00:15:10,083
NARRATOR:
But rather than expand
the investigation,
300
00:15:10,126 --> 00:15:14,652
in 1969, the Air Force
abruptly shut down
301
00:15:14,696 --> 00:15:16,698
Project Blue Book.
302
00:15:17,699 --> 00:15:19,179
In the years that followed,
303
00:15:19,222 --> 00:15:23,096
Hynek became an outspoken
supporter of UFO research,
304
00:15:23,139 --> 00:15:25,925
publishing numerous
books on the subject
305
00:15:25,968 --> 00:15:29,624
until his death in 1986.
306
00:15:29,667 --> 00:15:33,933
Hynek became
increasingly disillusioned
307
00:15:33,976 --> 00:15:36,587
with the Air Force
policy on this,
308
00:15:36,631 --> 00:15:39,112
and, yes,
he was frustrated.
309
00:15:39,155 --> 00:15:42,637
These people have no interest
in going public
310
00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:44,944
-and saying there might
be extraterrestrials.
-CHILDRESS: Right.
311
00:15:44,987 --> 00:15:47,555
And he's privy,
as you were,
312
00:15:47,598 --> 00:15:49,252
to classified documents
313
00:15:49,296 --> 00:15:51,211
and, you know, you have
to have a security clearance.
314
00:15:51,254 --> 00:15:53,039
He must have had that, too.
315
00:15:53,082 --> 00:15:55,780
So there were things
that he could not talk about.
316
00:15:55,824 --> 00:15:57,826
-Wouldn't you think?
-I'm sure that's the case.
317
00:15:57,869 --> 00:16:00,176
He was someone
on the inside,
318
00:16:00,220 --> 00:16:03,963
and he probably
had a deeper understanding
319
00:16:04,006 --> 00:16:05,660
of this phenomenon
320
00:16:05,703 --> 00:16:09,229
than almost anyone else
involved at the time.
321
00:16:09,272 --> 00:16:13,276
And, uh, Jacques Vallée is
another fascinating character,
322
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,845
a colleague, of course,
of Dr. J. Allen Hynek
323
00:16:16,888 --> 00:16:20,675
and two of the early, uh,
giants in this field.
324
00:16:20,718 --> 00:16:24,113
Without Jacques Vallée,
Dr. J. Allen Hynek,
325
00:16:24,157 --> 00:16:26,115
we probably wouldn't be
sitting around this table
326
00:16:26,159 --> 00:16:28,291
-having this discussion.
-Right.
327
00:16:28,335 --> 00:16:31,860
Jacques Vallée
went back into folklore.
328
00:16:31,903 --> 00:16:34,776
He was one of the first
to see and certainly the first
329
00:16:34,819 --> 00:16:37,257
to popularize
that-that parallel
330
00:16:37,300 --> 00:16:40,042
between these
folkloric accounts
331
00:16:40,086 --> 00:16:42,001
and the more modern
accounts of UFOs
332
00:16:42,044 --> 00:16:43,915
and, specifically,
alien abduction.
333
00:16:43,959 --> 00:16:46,309
Half of my family
comes from Austria
334
00:16:46,353 --> 00:16:49,791
and there are many
folkloric tales
335
00:16:49,834 --> 00:16:53,055
of fairy folk, where
a shepherd either disappears
336
00:16:53,099 --> 00:16:54,926
or a shepherd
goes to sleep
337
00:16:54,970 --> 00:16:57,059
and doesn't wake up
for a week
338
00:16:57,103 --> 00:16:59,018
even though, in his mind,
339
00:16:59,061 --> 00:17:01,150
only two hours
have elapsed.
340
00:17:01,194 --> 00:17:03,805
So I think
it's wonderful that Vallée
341
00:17:03,848 --> 00:17:05,807
looked at those stories
342
00:17:05,850 --> 00:17:07,635
and put them
into the context
343
00:17:07,678 --> 00:17:10,986
of potential
extraterrestrial encounters.
344
00:17:13,902 --> 00:17:16,165
Jacques is probably
our greatest
345
00:17:16,209 --> 00:17:20,648
living scientist
and scholar of UFO studies.
346
00:17:20,691 --> 00:17:23,955
He wrote one of
the most influential books
347
00:17:23,999 --> 00:17:26,175
that figures
into the UFO field,
348
00:17:26,219 --> 00:17:28,395
which is called
Passport to Magonia,
349
00:17:28,438 --> 00:17:32,225
where he ventured
the theory that folklore
350
00:17:32,268 --> 00:17:36,098
all throughout the ages,
matches up extraordinarily well
351
00:17:36,142 --> 00:17:38,144
with contemporary
UFO accounts.
352
00:17:39,232 --> 00:17:42,104
NARRATOR:
In 1961, Dr. Jacques Vallée
353
00:17:42,148 --> 00:17:45,368
was working as an astronomer
with the French Space Committee
354
00:17:45,412 --> 00:17:49,198
when he noticed a mysterious
object orbiting the Earth.
355
00:17:51,244 --> 00:17:53,898
This event sparked
a lifelong-interest
356
00:17:53,942 --> 00:17:55,987
in the UFO phenomenon
357
00:17:56,031 --> 00:17:57,859
which he continues
to investigate
358
00:17:57,902 --> 00:18:01,123
more than six decades later.
359
00:18:01,167 --> 00:18:03,299
Vallée started
out in the mid-1960s,
360
00:18:03,343 --> 00:18:05,388
working closely
with Allen Hynek,
361
00:18:05,432 --> 00:18:09,088
doing what you might call
standard UFO analysis back then,
362
00:18:09,131 --> 00:18:11,177
looking at various sightings.
363
00:18:12,178 --> 00:18:13,962
NARRATOR:
While working with Hynek,
364
00:18:14,005 --> 00:18:16,399
Vallée boldly proposed
a profound new theory
365
00:18:16,443 --> 00:18:18,923
to explain UFO sightings
366
00:18:18,967 --> 00:18:21,752
and other
paranormal experiences.
367
00:18:21,796 --> 00:18:25,104
He argued that many UFOs
seem to be manipulating
368
00:18:25,147 --> 00:18:26,975
the space-time continuum
369
00:18:27,018 --> 00:18:31,893
and suggested they may not have
come from another planet
370
00:18:31,936 --> 00:18:34,113
but from another dimension.
371
00:18:34,156 --> 00:18:37,899
Dr. Jacques Vallée
was years ahead
372
00:18:37,942 --> 00:18:39,727
of his time.
373
00:18:39,770 --> 00:18:43,034
When everyone else was looking
at the nuts and bolts
374
00:18:43,078 --> 00:18:46,125
of UFOs and their occupants,
375
00:18:46,168 --> 00:18:48,431
Jacques Vallée was interested
376
00:18:48,475 --> 00:18:51,739
in the interdimensional
phenomena
377
00:18:51,782 --> 00:18:54,263
related to UFO reports.
378
00:18:55,438 --> 00:18:59,877
HYNEK:
Jacques really helped
the field accept the idea
379
00:18:59,921 --> 00:19:03,142
of truly exotic solutions.
380
00:19:03,185 --> 00:19:06,797
Once you really dig
into the UFO phenomena,
381
00:19:06,841 --> 00:19:09,887
it's very hard
to find one solution
382
00:19:09,931 --> 00:19:13,413
that fits all of the cases
that have been reported.
383
00:19:13,456 --> 00:19:16,111
J. Allen Hynek,
Jacques Vallée,
384
00:19:16,155 --> 00:19:18,026
were pioneers in this field
385
00:19:18,069 --> 00:19:20,768
and, interesting piece
of film trivia,
386
00:19:20,811 --> 00:19:24,511
the classic sci-fi movie Close
Encounters of the Third Kind,
387
00:19:24,554 --> 00:19:27,296
it's an homage
to J. Allen Hynek
388
00:19:27,340 --> 00:19:30,430
and Spielberg gave him
389
00:19:30,473 --> 00:19:33,433
a little cameo in the movie.
390
00:19:33,476 --> 00:19:35,130
In that wonderful scene
391
00:19:35,174 --> 00:19:37,306
where the mothership
comes down at the end,
392
00:19:37,350 --> 00:19:39,221
he's the guy
with the pipe.
393
00:19:39,265 --> 00:19:41,136
CHILDRESS:
And, actually,
Jacques Vallée is depicted
394
00:19:41,180 --> 00:19:43,182
in that movie, too,
in a sense.
395
00:19:43,225 --> 00:19:46,228
Isn't he the-the French
UFO expert
396
00:19:46,272 --> 00:19:50,798
in the movie who then uses music
and tones to communicate
397
00:19:50,841 --> 00:19:53,061
-with the extraterrestrials?
-POPE: Yes, indeed.
398
00:19:53,104 --> 00:19:55,237
And a lot
of people don't know this,
399
00:19:55,281 --> 00:19:57,805
Close Encounters
of the Third Kind,
400
00:19:57,848 --> 00:20:00,024
it's based on the story
401
00:20:00,068 --> 00:20:02,549
of one of the great
pioneers in this field.
402
00:20:08,207 --> 00:20:11,079
Another pioneer in this field
was Robert Emenegger
403
00:20:11,122 --> 00:20:12,646
who wrote the book UFOs: Past,
Present & Future.
404
00:20:12,689 --> 00:20:14,865
Well, there's a fascinating
story about him.
405
00:20:14,909 --> 00:20:17,868
He was basically promised
406
00:20:17,912 --> 00:20:20,697
that he would get film footage
407
00:20:20,741 --> 00:20:23,396
of a UFO landing
at an Air Force Base.
408
00:20:23,439 --> 00:20:24,614
Really?
409
00:20:25,963 --> 00:20:29,358
NARRATOR:
In 1972,
filmmaker Robert Emenegger
410
00:20:29,402 --> 00:20:32,753
was hired by President
Richard Nixon's Chief of Staff,
411
00:20:32,796 --> 00:20:36,583
H.R. Haldeman,
to produce a documentary film.
412
00:20:36,626 --> 00:20:38,976
The Committee to Re-elect
the President
413
00:20:39,020 --> 00:20:42,110
wanted to make
a scientific documentary
414
00:20:42,153 --> 00:20:45,244
that would support Nixon.
415
00:20:46,245 --> 00:20:50,118
A documentary about
some secret project
416
00:20:50,161 --> 00:20:52,903
that the government's been
working on
417
00:20:52,947 --> 00:20:55,123
that can be declassified.
418
00:20:58,039 --> 00:21:00,998
NARRATOR:
But as soon as Emenegger
started on the project,
419
00:21:01,042 --> 00:21:04,001
it took an unexpected turn.
420
00:21:04,045 --> 00:21:05,960
HOLCOMBE:
Bob Emenegger was asked,
421
00:21:06,003 --> 00:21:10,530
"How would you like to make
a documentary on UFOs?"
422
00:21:10,573 --> 00:21:12,619
And Bob Emenegger was stunned.
423
00:21:13,620 --> 00:21:15,970
He told me at his home,
424
00:21:16,013 --> 00:21:19,930
"I didn't know anything
about UFOs. I was shocked."
425
00:21:19,974 --> 00:21:22,977
They said if we would make
the documentary,
426
00:21:23,020 --> 00:21:24,935
we would be given
427
00:21:24,979 --> 00:21:27,851
600 feet
of 16-millimeter film
428
00:21:27,895 --> 00:21:30,071
shot at Holloman
Air Force Base
429
00:21:30,114 --> 00:21:32,508
of a UFO landing there.
430
00:21:32,552 --> 00:21:34,467
So Emenegger agreed to do it.
431
00:21:36,730 --> 00:21:39,254
NARRATOR:
Emenegger set about
producing a documentary
432
00:21:39,298 --> 00:21:41,212
that would present the public
433
00:21:41,256 --> 00:21:43,998
with authentic footage of a UFO.
434
00:21:44,041 --> 00:21:46,740
But when it came time to receive
the sensational materials
435
00:21:46,783 --> 00:21:48,611
he'd been promised,
436
00:21:48,655 --> 00:21:50,787
the government
had a change of heart.
437
00:21:50,831 --> 00:21:53,224
HOLCOMBE:
Their White House contact said,
438
00:21:53,268 --> 00:21:56,532
"Bob, I hate to tell you,
but the film
439
00:21:56,576 --> 00:21:58,926
has been withdrawn."
440
00:21:58,969 --> 00:22:00,884
Bob Emenegger
was crushed. He said,
441
00:22:00,928 --> 00:22:03,017
"Why? With everything
we've done,
442
00:22:03,060 --> 00:22:06,107
with everything that's in place,
why would you do this?"
443
00:22:06,150 --> 00:22:08,588
And he said, "Watergate."
444
00:22:09,806 --> 00:22:12,940
GRANT CAMERON:
They said, "We can't allow
you to use the film.
445
00:22:12,983 --> 00:22:15,203
"You have to do
your own version of it.
446
00:22:15,246 --> 00:22:17,031
"Something that might've
happened in the past
447
00:22:17,074 --> 00:22:19,686
may happen in the future."
So they did that.
448
00:22:19,729 --> 00:22:22,558
It was a documentary called
UFOs: Past, Present & Future.
449
00:22:22,602 --> 00:22:25,126
And they also had
a book by the same name.
450
00:22:26,649 --> 00:22:28,825
NARRATOR:
Even without
the military's footage,
451
00:22:28,869 --> 00:22:32,655
the 1974 release
of Emenegger's documentary
452
00:22:32,699 --> 00:22:36,267
caused a stir
among the UFO community.
453
00:22:37,312 --> 00:22:39,227
And many believe
the alleged encounter
454
00:22:39,270 --> 00:22:41,316
at Holloman Air Force Base
455
00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:44,667
influenced a much more
famous film.
456
00:22:44,711 --> 00:22:47,148
The documentary
is done in 1975.
457
00:22:47,191 --> 00:22:49,237
Steven Spielberg's Close
Encounters of the Third Kind
458
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,805
came out in 1977.
459
00:22:51,848 --> 00:22:54,329
So when you see Close
Encounters of the Third Kind,
460
00:22:54,373 --> 00:22:56,244
it's the Holloman
Air Force Base story.
461
00:22:56,287 --> 00:22:57,767
Just changed the location.
462
00:22:57,811 --> 00:22:59,334
It's exactly
what the story was.
463
00:23:01,336 --> 00:23:04,818
NARRATOR:
On December 14, 1977,
464
00:23:04,861 --> 00:23:07,211
Close Encounters
of the Third Kind
465
00:23:07,255 --> 00:23:09,866
opens in wide release
across America,
466
00:23:09,910 --> 00:23:13,740
grossing over $10 million
its first week.
467
00:23:13,783 --> 00:23:17,831
But could it have been
based on an actual event?
468
00:23:17,874 --> 00:23:19,876
This is a fascinating story
469
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,619
of a UFO landing
at an Air Force base.
470
00:23:23,663 --> 00:23:26,361
And, look,
the military themselves
471
00:23:26,405 --> 00:23:28,972
maybe can't just come out
and say this
472
00:23:29,016 --> 00:23:32,759
because, uh,
implicit in that admission
473
00:23:32,802 --> 00:23:34,587
would be an admission that
474
00:23:34,630 --> 00:23:37,154
they lied about this
for decades.
475
00:23:37,198 --> 00:23:41,942
But I think, also, that we can
handle this, this truth.
476
00:23:41,985 --> 00:23:43,726
A long time ago,
people would say,
477
00:23:43,770 --> 00:23:45,946
"Well, how do you deal
with the skeptics?"
478
00:23:45,989 --> 00:23:48,165
One of the pioneers
who, unfortunately,
479
00:23:48,209 --> 00:23:50,733
is no longer
with us 'cause he passed away
480
00:23:50,777 --> 00:23:53,823
only a few years ago,
is Dr. Stanton Friedman
481
00:23:53,867 --> 00:23:55,782
the nuclear physicist.
482
00:23:55,825 --> 00:24:00,047
POPE:
Stanton Friedman was an absolute
powerhouse in this field.
483
00:24:00,090 --> 00:24:02,745
Over the course
of that career,
484
00:24:02,789 --> 00:24:05,400
he gave, I-I--
goodness, I don't have a figure.
485
00:24:05,444 --> 00:24:08,403
I-it's hundreds--
I think it's thousands
486
00:24:08,447 --> 00:24:10,927
of individual presentations
487
00:24:10,971 --> 00:24:12,973
at schools, colleges,
488
00:24:13,016 --> 00:24:16,106
um, a-all sorts
of different places,
489
00:24:16,150 --> 00:24:18,718
and he was a-a crusader,
490
00:24:18,761 --> 00:24:20,633
an evangelist
for this subject,
491
00:24:20,676 --> 00:24:24,811
and I-I couldn't talk
about Stanton
492
00:24:24,854 --> 00:24:27,727
without, of course,
mentioning Roswell.
493
00:24:28,902 --> 00:24:31,774
NARRATOR:
As interest
in the UFO phenomenon grew,
494
00:24:31,818 --> 00:24:33,950
some of the nation's
top scientists
495
00:24:33,994 --> 00:24:36,300
began their own investigations,
496
00:24:36,344 --> 00:24:40,740
including nuclear physicist
Dr. Stanton Friedman.
497
00:24:40,783 --> 00:24:44,700
One of Dr. Friedman's most
significant contributions
498
00:24:44,744 --> 00:24:46,789
to the study of UFOs
499
00:24:46,833 --> 00:24:48,704
was his research
into an incident
500
00:24:48,748 --> 00:24:52,055
in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947
501
00:24:52,099 --> 00:24:55,102
when a flying saucer
allegedly crashed
502
00:24:55,145 --> 00:24:58,888
and was swiftly covered up
by the U.S. military.
503
00:24:58,932 --> 00:25:02,326
Stanton Friedman's the man who
interviewed Jesse Marcel Sr.
504
00:25:02,370 --> 00:25:05,460
who was the most important
of the Roswell witnesses.
505
00:25:05,504 --> 00:25:07,375
NARRATOR:
Major Jesse Marcel
506
00:25:07,418 --> 00:25:09,203
was the head
intelligence officer
507
00:25:09,246 --> 00:25:11,292
at Roswell Army Airfield.
508
00:25:11,335 --> 00:25:14,251
He and Brigadier General
Roger Ramey,
509
00:25:14,295 --> 00:25:16,210
head of the Eighth Air Force,
510
00:25:16,253 --> 00:25:19,256
were the officers tasked
with transporting the debris
511
00:25:19,300 --> 00:25:22,912
recovered from the Roswell crash
site to Fort Worth, Texas
512
00:25:22,956 --> 00:25:25,001
to present to the media.
513
00:25:25,045 --> 00:25:27,264
In his interview
with Stanton Friedman,
514
00:25:27,308 --> 00:25:30,137
Major Marcel
made a shocking admission.
515
00:25:30,180 --> 00:25:31,704
He claimed that General Ramey
516
00:25:31,747 --> 00:25:34,750
replaced the real
Roswell debris.
517
00:25:34,794 --> 00:25:37,884
BIRNES: Major Marcel explained
how they swapped
518
00:25:37,927 --> 00:25:41,888
the Roswell debris with radar
material from a radar balloon.
519
00:25:41,931 --> 00:25:44,717
And he had to swear
that's what he saw.
520
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,459
So the point
is that Stanton
521
00:25:48,503 --> 00:25:50,940
unearthed a lot
of this material
522
00:25:50,984 --> 00:25:53,377
and was the first person
to make it public.
523
00:25:53,421 --> 00:25:56,337
NARRATOR:
Stanton alleged that the
military was engaged
524
00:25:56,380 --> 00:25:59,079
in a widespread coverup
of the existence
525
00:25:59,122 --> 00:26:01,255
of extraterrestrial life,
526
00:26:01,298 --> 00:26:05,259
a scandal so big he called
it the "cosmic Watergate."
527
00:26:05,302 --> 00:26:08,741
If you pick up
a UFO book written in the '50s
528
00:26:08,784 --> 00:26:10,394
and if it's got an index,
529
00:26:10,438 --> 00:26:12,483
and you think,
"Oh, I'll look up Roswell,"
530
00:26:12,527 --> 00:26:14,747
you won't find it.
It's not there.
531
00:26:14,790 --> 00:26:19,055
The rediscovery of Roswell
is really credited
532
00:26:19,099 --> 00:26:21,101
-to Stanton Friedman.
-Interesting.
533
00:26:26,367 --> 00:26:28,282
You know, we've actually
been working
534
00:26:28,325 --> 00:26:30,197
all these years
with one of the earliest
535
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,068
modern UFO researchers
536
00:26:32,112 --> 00:26:33,766
and pioneers that exist.
537
00:26:33,809 --> 00:26:35,855
She's a specialist
in cattle mutilations.
538
00:26:35,898 --> 00:26:39,206
She's a specialist in
UFOs and Roswell,
539
00:26:39,249 --> 00:26:42,122
our own Linda Moulton Howe.
540
00:26:43,253 --> 00:26:45,038
NARRATOR:
For more than four decades,
541
00:26:45,081 --> 00:26:47,518
investigative reporter
Linda Moulton Howe
542
00:26:47,562 --> 00:26:49,825
has been
researching a potential
543
00:26:49,869 --> 00:26:53,176
extraterrestrial
presence on Earth.
544
00:26:53,220 --> 00:26:58,094
She has received numerous awards
for journalistic excellence
545
00:26:58,138 --> 00:27:01,184
including an Emmy
for her 1980 documentary
546
00:27:01,228 --> 00:27:03,578
on cattle mutilations titled,
547
00:27:03,622 --> 00:27:05,232
A Strange Harvest.
548
00:27:05,275 --> 00:27:09,192
Today she is the reporter
and editor of the website
549
00:27:09,236 --> 00:27:12,674
Earthfiles.com,
which contains an archive
550
00:27:12,718 --> 00:27:16,983
of nearly 3,000
in-depth UFO reports.
551
00:27:18,027 --> 00:27:20,682
She's actually
waiting to speak with us
552
00:27:20,726 --> 00:27:22,597
with a video call.
553
00:27:23,685 --> 00:27:25,687
TSOUKALOS:
Hi, Linda. Good to see you.
554
00:27:25,731 --> 00:27:27,863
Hi, guys.
It's great to see you.
555
00:27:27,907 --> 00:27:29,691
So tell us, please,
556
00:27:29,735 --> 00:27:32,172
what got you
started in this field?
557
00:27:32,215 --> 00:27:34,740
I am a professional TV producer
558
00:27:34,783 --> 00:27:36,698
and an investigative reporter.
559
00:27:36,742 --> 00:27:39,570
In September of 1979,
560
00:27:39,614 --> 00:27:41,703
I was director
of special projects
561
00:27:41,747 --> 00:27:44,532
at the CBS station
in Denver, Colorado.
562
00:27:44,575 --> 00:27:47,100
And late in that summer,
there were headlines
563
00:27:47,143 --> 00:27:49,842
in The Denver Post
and The Rocky Mountain News
564
00:27:49,885 --> 00:27:53,759
about bloodless, trackless
animal mutilations
565
00:27:53,802 --> 00:27:56,109
in Colorado
and surrounding states.
566
00:27:56,152 --> 00:27:58,894
I wanted to find out what
567
00:27:58,938 --> 00:28:03,203
did this mean, "a bloodless,
trackless animal mutilation"?
568
00:28:03,246 --> 00:28:05,553
This gets me involved,
and we do this
569
00:28:05,596 --> 00:28:07,294
for my film
A Strange Harvest.
570
00:28:07,337 --> 00:28:09,862
There was
a classic pattern
571
00:28:09,905 --> 00:28:12,081
from case to case to case
572
00:28:12,125 --> 00:28:15,694
where these animals
have the same tissue taken:
573
00:28:15,737 --> 00:28:19,088
ear, eye, tongue, jaw,
genitals and rectum.
574
00:28:19,132 --> 00:28:21,525
And those were excisions
575
00:28:21,569 --> 00:28:24,615
that really baffled the sheriffs
and the veterinarians
576
00:28:24,659 --> 00:28:27,923
because the bone
where the cut was made
577
00:28:27,967 --> 00:28:32,319
glistened like somebody
had melted and then polished.
578
00:28:32,362 --> 00:28:34,321
Right. This would imply
579
00:28:34,364 --> 00:28:37,019
some type
of external technology.
580
00:28:37,063 --> 00:28:39,805
POPE:
I'm wondering
in your research with
581
00:28:39,848 --> 00:28:41,937
the hundreds
of people you've spoken to,
582
00:28:41,981 --> 00:28:44,984
not just the ranchers,
but fellow journalists,
583
00:28:45,027 --> 00:28:47,769
broadcasters,
the veterinarians,
584
00:28:47,813 --> 00:28:50,772
what is your
bottom line conclusions?
585
00:28:50,816 --> 00:28:52,252
Who's doing this and why?
586
00:28:52,295 --> 00:28:55,646
Well, Nick,
there is no evidence beyond
587
00:28:55,690 --> 00:28:57,213
the bodies of these animals.
588
00:28:57,257 --> 00:28:59,868
But one of the ranchers
589
00:28:59,912 --> 00:29:02,131
told me
that one night he saw
590
00:29:02,175 --> 00:29:06,048
a round, glowing disc--
is all he could see--
591
00:29:06,092 --> 00:29:08,877
put a beam right down
into one of his pastures
592
00:29:08,921 --> 00:29:10,879
where they had been
having mutilations
593
00:29:10,923 --> 00:29:12,751
around in a large area.
594
00:29:12,794 --> 00:29:15,666
And in that beam of light,
595
00:29:15,710 --> 00:29:18,104
he saw
one of his animals.
596
00:29:19,192 --> 00:29:22,064
The sheriff
told me this himself.
597
00:29:22,108 --> 00:29:24,675
He said,
"I know that the perpetrators
598
00:29:24,719 --> 00:29:27,113
"of these bloodless
animal mutilations
599
00:29:27,156 --> 00:29:28,941
are creatures
from outer space."
600
00:29:30,333 --> 00:29:32,640
And I felt like
I had been hit
601
00:29:32,683 --> 00:29:34,294
with an electrical shock.
602
00:29:36,687 --> 00:29:38,994
NARRATOR:
Creatures from outer space?
603
00:29:39,038 --> 00:29:41,823
Could extraterrestrials
be responsible
604
00:29:41,867 --> 00:29:44,391
for the bizarre
animal mutilations
605
00:29:44,434 --> 00:29:48,264
that have been reported by
ranchers all over the country?
606
00:29:48,308 --> 00:29:51,137
But, if so, to what end?
607
00:29:51,180 --> 00:29:53,966
HOWE:
I have literally
interviewed thousands now.
608
00:29:54,009 --> 00:29:56,316
You hear,
609
00:29:56,359 --> 00:29:59,754
"I saw this kind of light."
610
00:29:59,798 --> 00:30:03,366
"I saw this beam lowering
an animal to the pasture,
611
00:30:03,410 --> 00:30:05,238
and it was mutilated."
612
00:30:05,281 --> 00:30:07,370
Somebody else saw
this animal coming up
613
00:30:07,414 --> 00:30:10,852
in a beam of light, and later
it was found mutilated.
614
00:30:10,896 --> 00:30:13,724
And what people
were describing
615
00:30:13,768 --> 00:30:15,770
in the 20th century
616
00:30:15,814 --> 00:30:19,992
are what people were describing
in the third century
617
00:30:20,035 --> 00:30:22,733
or 500 BC
618
00:30:22,777 --> 00:30:24,866
or going back in time.
619
00:30:24,910 --> 00:30:28,174
And it's not just
the United States.
620
00:30:28,217 --> 00:30:31,046
It's Canada,
Mexico, Central America,
621
00:30:31,090 --> 00:30:34,267
South America,
Australia, New Zealand,
622
00:30:34,310 --> 00:30:36,486
all of Western Europe
623
00:30:36,530 --> 00:30:39,011
and going
into Eastern Europe.
624
00:30:40,229 --> 00:30:43,754
NARRATOR:
According to the FBI,
thousands of cattle mutilations
625
00:30:43,798 --> 00:30:47,715
have been reported across
the U.S. since the 1970s.
626
00:30:47,758 --> 00:30:50,936
Linda's
pioneering investigations
627
00:30:50,979 --> 00:30:53,373
forced those who study
the UFO phenomenon
628
00:30:53,416 --> 00:30:56,245
to consider
a chilling proposition:
629
00:30:56,289 --> 00:30:59,814
that extraterrestrial
beings aren't just here
630
00:30:59,858 --> 00:31:01,468
to observe us.
631
00:31:01,511 --> 00:31:04,732
They may have
an agenda for our planet.
632
00:31:05,907 --> 00:31:09,171
HOWE:
I think it's important
to get across that
633
00:31:09,215 --> 00:31:12,087
there are real people
who have been afraid
634
00:31:12,131 --> 00:31:14,873
to come forward and describe
635
00:31:14,916 --> 00:31:17,049
what they actually saw
with their own eyes
636
00:31:17,092 --> 00:31:19,442
because they didn't have
video proof
637
00:31:19,486 --> 00:31:21,923
and they don't want
to be criticized.
638
00:31:21,967 --> 00:31:25,274
TSOUKALOS:
Well, Linda, this has been
absolutely invaluable,
639
00:31:25,318 --> 00:31:28,887
and we are all so lucky
to have you on board with us.
640
00:31:28,930 --> 00:31:31,150
So we thank you
very much for your time.
641
00:31:31,193 --> 00:31:33,761
Thank you, Giorgio.
642
00:31:33,804 --> 00:31:35,806
-That was incredible.
-Wow. That was pretty
interesting.
643
00:31:35,850 --> 00:31:38,418
She was like
the first dogged reporter,
644
00:31:38,461 --> 00:31:40,550
investigative reporter,
you know, phoning up people,
645
00:31:40,594 --> 00:31:42,552
going to those sites,
interviewing people.
646
00:31:42,596 --> 00:31:45,381
Yeah, it-it brings it home
647
00:31:45,425 --> 00:31:48,036
that these UFOs have real
648
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,952
tangible, physical effects
649
00:31:50,996 --> 00:31:53,433
and that means it's not just
imagination. It's real.
650
00:31:59,308 --> 00:32:01,180
By the way,
the U.S. government
651
00:32:01,223 --> 00:32:03,312
is one of
the last governments to admit
652
00:32:03,356 --> 00:32:05,227
there is a UFO phenomenon.
653
00:32:05,271 --> 00:32:06,837
But now we all actually
know that the U.S. government
654
00:32:06,881 --> 00:32:09,666
has been investigating
this since the '40s.
655
00:32:09,710 --> 00:32:13,932
Absolutely. And records,
files, documents,
656
00:32:13,975 --> 00:32:17,674
are being declassified
and released in record numbers.
657
00:32:17,718 --> 00:32:19,111
In the United Kingdom,
for example,
658
00:32:19,154 --> 00:32:20,677
we've declassified and released
659
00:32:20,721 --> 00:32:23,724
about 60,000 pages
660
00:32:23,767 --> 00:32:27,032
of UFO documents, some of which
were very highly classified.
661
00:32:27,075 --> 00:32:29,643
And so we get
662
00:32:29,686 --> 00:32:31,775
this fuller picture
of what's going on.
663
00:32:31,819 --> 00:32:34,996
And now, you know, uh,
almost everybody who has had
664
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,259
an experience feels
665
00:32:37,303 --> 00:32:40,697
compelled to come forward
to tell their story.
666
00:32:40,741 --> 00:32:44,136
I mean, this reminds me
of one influential person
667
00:32:44,179 --> 00:32:46,225
and modern pioneer,
Bob Lazar.
668
00:32:46,268 --> 00:32:47,878
Yes, uh, he was somebody
669
00:32:47,922 --> 00:32:52,013
who first spoke out in 1989.
670
00:32:53,232 --> 00:32:57,105
DOLAN: Bob Lazar is someone who
became famous back in 1989
671
00:32:57,149 --> 00:33:00,674
as a result of a very
specific claim that he made.
672
00:33:01,762 --> 00:33:04,025
And that claim
is that he worked
673
00:33:04,069 --> 00:33:06,114
at a place
just south of Area 51.
674
00:33:06,158 --> 00:33:08,160
He called it S4.
675
00:33:08,203 --> 00:33:10,292
He was interviewed
by a Las Vegas journalist,
676
00:33:10,336 --> 00:33:13,948
George Knapp in a series
of very detailed interviews.
677
00:33:15,297 --> 00:33:18,561
We put him on the air,
blacked out his face,
678
00:33:18,605 --> 00:33:20,085
and he told
this incredible story.
679
00:33:21,912 --> 00:33:23,871
KNAPP: Exactly what's
going on up there?
680
00:33:23,914 --> 00:33:26,917
BOB LAZAR: Well, there's
several, uh, actually nine,
681
00:33:26,961 --> 00:33:30,008
uh, flying saucers,
flying discs,
682
00:33:30,051 --> 00:33:33,750
uh, that are out there
of extraterrestrial origin.
683
00:33:33,794 --> 00:33:37,711
He said it's a secret that
needed to be told to the world,
684
00:33:37,754 --> 00:33:39,713
that his life was in danger,
685
00:33:39,756 --> 00:33:43,064
and that he was coming forward
and, uh, and wanted to tell it.
686
00:33:43,108 --> 00:33:46,894
I could feel my jaw dropping.
Is this real?
687
00:33:47,982 --> 00:33:50,245
We left there thinking,
"Wow. If this is real,
688
00:33:50,289 --> 00:33:52,117
this is a really big story."
689
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,120
So we decided, well,
let's take the time
690
00:33:55,163 --> 00:33:56,773
and get this right.
691
00:33:57,818 --> 00:33:59,733
NARRATOR:
Over the next eight months,
692
00:33:59,776 --> 00:34:02,127
Knapp conducted
a thorough investigation
693
00:34:02,170 --> 00:34:05,130
of Lazar's sensational claims.
694
00:34:05,173 --> 00:34:09,090
According to Lazar,
before he worked at S4,
695
00:34:09,134 --> 00:34:12,920
he as a physicist at the
Los Alamos National Laboratory--
696
00:34:12,963 --> 00:34:16,924
the facility
that developed the atomic bomb.
697
00:34:16,967 --> 00:34:18,969
The central
question for me was,
698
00:34:19,013 --> 00:34:21,276
"Did he work at Los Alamos?"
699
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,800
Because if he did,
700
00:34:23,844 --> 00:34:26,977
it would at least be plausible
that if he worked there
701
00:34:27,021 --> 00:34:29,632
in a technical or scientific
position, that he could also
702
00:34:29,676 --> 00:34:31,286
be hired at a place like S4.
703
00:34:31,330 --> 00:34:33,854
So that's where
we focused our attention.
704
00:34:33,897 --> 00:34:35,986
I started calling Los Alamos.
705
00:34:36,030 --> 00:34:39,338
At first, "No. We have no record
of a guy named Bob Lazar."
706
00:34:39,381 --> 00:34:42,210
I got the phone book
from the Los Alamos Lab.
707
00:34:42,254 --> 00:34:44,995
There's his name in the phone
book. I call them back and said,
708
00:34:45,039 --> 00:34:46,954
"Hey, he's in the phone book."
709
00:34:46,997 --> 00:34:49,739
They finally sort of
exasperatingly told me,
710
00:34:49,783 --> 00:34:53,221
"Yeah, we've got a record
of him being here."
711
00:34:53,265 --> 00:34:56,311
We found Bob Lazar
to be credible, um,
712
00:34:56,355 --> 00:35:00,054
about his background, his, uh,
his scientific training,
713
00:35:00,098 --> 00:35:01,708
where he had worked.
714
00:35:02,752 --> 00:35:04,885
NARRATOR:
For more than two decades,
715
00:35:04,928 --> 00:35:07,105
Bob Lazar's critics claimed
716
00:35:07,148 --> 00:35:10,064
there was no evidence
of any secret military base
717
00:35:10,108 --> 00:35:12,153
in the Nevada desert.
718
00:35:12,197 --> 00:35:14,373
But then, in 2013,
719
00:35:14,416 --> 00:35:17,767
a Freedom
of Information Act request
720
00:35:17,811 --> 00:35:20,161
forced the CIA
to finally acknowledge
721
00:35:20,205 --> 00:35:23,164
that Area 51 is real.
722
00:35:23,208 --> 00:35:25,123
CORBELL:
The story of Area 51--
723
00:35:25,166 --> 00:35:28,691
it exploded
around the world.
724
00:35:28,735 --> 00:35:30,780
The reason
you know about Area 51
725
00:35:30,824 --> 00:35:32,826
is because Bob Lazar
and George Knapp
726
00:35:32,869 --> 00:35:36,003
on the news, 1989,
made it a household name.
727
00:35:36,046 --> 00:35:37,396
That's the reason.
728
00:35:38,397 --> 00:35:41,008
All of that
came from Bob Lazar.
729
00:35:42,052 --> 00:35:43,793
NARRATOR:
To many researchers,
730
00:35:43,837 --> 00:35:46,361
the government's
acknowledgement of Area 51
731
00:35:46,405 --> 00:35:50,235
established Lazar
as more than a UFO pioneer.
732
00:35:50,278 --> 00:35:54,326
His inside access
made him a whistleblower.
733
00:35:55,936 --> 00:35:57,981
My name's Bob Lazar.
734
00:35:58,025 --> 00:36:02,072
I'm known for working
at a classified base
735
00:36:02,116 --> 00:36:04,640
known as S4
out in the Nevada desert
736
00:36:04,684 --> 00:36:06,425
near Area 51,
737
00:36:06,468 --> 00:36:09,341
and there
we reverse-engineered
738
00:36:09,384 --> 00:36:11,038
alien spacecraft.
739
00:36:12,257 --> 00:36:16,348
NARRATOR:
But could Lazar's
sensational claims be true?
740
00:36:16,391 --> 00:36:19,873
Former Air Force pilot
Captain David Fruehauf
741
00:36:19,916 --> 00:36:22,267
worked at Area 51
742
00:36:22,310 --> 00:36:26,140
from 1979 until 1985.
743
00:36:26,184 --> 00:36:29,752
And while he was never shown
any alien technology,
744
00:36:29,796 --> 00:36:32,233
he attests
that Bob Lazar's account
745
00:36:32,277 --> 00:36:35,062
of the facility
is entirely accurate.
746
00:36:36,803 --> 00:36:39,240
When I was there,
we knew about S4,
747
00:36:39,284 --> 00:36:41,242
but we didn't know
what they did.
748
00:36:42,287 --> 00:36:45,768
And I know people
that had worked for me
749
00:36:45,812 --> 00:36:49,511
that after I left there,
they had seen Bob Lazar there,
750
00:36:49,555 --> 00:36:51,731
and they admitted that
to me recently.
751
00:36:51,774 --> 00:36:55,256
Bob Lazar's statements
and all the things he had said
752
00:36:55,300 --> 00:36:57,258
have gelled now to the point
753
00:36:57,302 --> 00:36:59,565
where I think
he's very credible.
754
00:37:01,828 --> 00:37:03,482
It doesn't
necessarily prove
755
00:37:03,525 --> 00:37:06,136
every aspect
of Bob Lazar's story,
756
00:37:06,180 --> 00:37:08,269
but Bob Lazar said
there was an Area 51
757
00:37:08,313 --> 00:37:10,750
and the government then said,
"Yeah, okay there is."
758
00:37:10,793 --> 00:37:13,187
-So it makes one wonder.
-Right.
759
00:37:13,231 --> 00:37:15,929
I mean, look,
if Roswell was real, uh,
760
00:37:15,972 --> 00:37:17,800
they had to take
the wreckage somewhere,
761
00:37:17,844 --> 00:37:20,760
and, of course, it stands
to reason we'd want to know,
762
00:37:20,803 --> 00:37:22,501
uh, can we build
these things ourselves?
763
00:37:22,544 --> 00:37:25,765
Can we develop this technology?
You'd do it somewhere.
764
00:37:25,808 --> 00:37:28,071
What better place
than Area 51?
765
00:37:28,115 --> 00:37:31,336
And Area 51 today
is part of our pop culture.
766
00:37:31,379 --> 00:37:34,121
-I mean, everyone
knows about Area 51.
-TSOUKALOS: Right.
767
00:37:34,164 --> 00:37:36,558
I think that
anyone who genuinely
768
00:37:36,602 --> 00:37:38,473
looks into
the UFO phenomenon--
769
00:37:38,517 --> 00:37:42,260
you have to come away
with some belief in it.
770
00:37:42,303 --> 00:37:44,305
There's no getting away
from the fact
771
00:37:44,349 --> 00:37:46,351
that we are
in a stronger position
772
00:37:46,394 --> 00:37:50,268
now, in terms of evidence,
than we've ever been.
773
00:37:50,311 --> 00:37:52,357
And, actually,
when this is accepted,
774
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:56,099
we are going to have
to fundamentally rethink
775
00:37:56,143 --> 00:37:58,014
our place
in the wider cosmos.
776
00:37:58,058 --> 00:37:59,277
Right. Yes.
777
00:38:06,371 --> 00:38:08,851
Well, gentlemen, this has been
a fascinating conversation.
778
00:38:08,895 --> 00:38:11,854
So with everything
that we have so far,
779
00:38:11,898 --> 00:38:14,117
cattle mutilations,
UFO sightings,
780
00:38:14,161 --> 00:38:15,989
and also ancient stories
that pretty much speak
781
00:38:16,032 --> 00:38:17,643
of the same thing,
782
00:38:17,686 --> 00:38:19,471
you have to wonder
783
00:38:19,514 --> 00:38:23,518
where does this all lead
and will we soon come closer
784
00:38:23,562 --> 00:38:25,085
to the truth?
785
00:38:25,128 --> 00:38:26,521
CHILDRESS:
There's an amazing consistency
786
00:38:26,565 --> 00:38:28,001
to all of these reports.
787
00:38:28,044 --> 00:38:31,047
And when you put
them all in totality,
788
00:38:31,091 --> 00:38:33,920
it's just not something
you can dismiss.
789
00:38:33,963 --> 00:38:36,009
-Something's going on.
-POPE: It is.
790
00:38:36,052 --> 00:38:38,011
And we're building up
to something.
791
00:38:39,534 --> 00:38:41,536
PILOT:
My gosh.
792
00:38:41,580 --> 00:38:43,582
POPE:
We have military pilots,
793
00:38:43,625 --> 00:38:46,759
and radar operators,
going on the record with this,
794
00:38:46,802 --> 00:38:49,718
government officials
who have been involved
795
00:38:49,762 --> 00:38:51,633
in these sorts of programs,
796
00:38:51,677 --> 00:38:54,854
we have declassification
of documents.
797
00:38:54,897 --> 00:38:56,725
CHILDRESS:
It seems to be
798
00:38:56,769 --> 00:38:59,032
the beginning
of disclosure, in a sense.
799
00:38:59,075 --> 00:39:03,515
NARRATOR:
Could disclosure, in fact,
already be happening
800
00:39:03,558 --> 00:39:06,866
with evidence coming
from many sources?
801
00:39:06,909 --> 00:39:09,216
In December 2020,
802
00:39:09,259 --> 00:39:12,219
former CIA Director
John Brennan
803
00:39:12,262 --> 00:39:14,874
made a surprising statement
about UFOs
804
00:39:14,917 --> 00:39:17,529
on the Conversations
with Tylerpodcast.
805
00:39:17,572 --> 00:39:19,705
I think some of the phenomena
we're going to be seeing
806
00:39:19,748 --> 00:39:22,055
continues to be,
uh, unexplained
807
00:39:22,098 --> 00:39:24,274
and might, in fact,
808
00:39:24,318 --> 00:39:26,059
be a different form of life.
809
00:39:28,801 --> 00:39:31,673
We are living through
a remarkable turning point
810
00:39:31,717 --> 00:39:33,762
right now in UFO studies.
811
00:39:33,806 --> 00:39:36,765
We don't know
what these objects are,
812
00:39:36,809 --> 00:39:39,812
but the fact that these
objects are documented,
813
00:39:39,855 --> 00:39:41,596
backed by evidence,
814
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,034
backed by a long record
of credible testimony
815
00:39:45,078 --> 00:39:47,907
is no longer in dispute.
816
00:39:50,039 --> 00:39:53,782
It's been over 70 years
since these early pioneers
817
00:39:53,826 --> 00:39:56,132
began collecting data
and releasing it
818
00:39:56,176 --> 00:39:57,917
to the public
and we've really
819
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,528
-come a long way since then.
-We should never forget
820
00:40:00,572 --> 00:40:02,008
that all these people,
821
00:40:02,051 --> 00:40:04,271
whether it's Jacques Vallée,
822
00:40:04,314 --> 00:40:06,752
Dr. J. Allen Hynek,
823
00:40:06,795 --> 00:40:08,928
Coral Lorenzen,
824
00:40:08,971 --> 00:40:12,061
Linda Moulton Howe--
without them we probably
825
00:40:12,105 --> 00:40:16,109
wouldn't be in the fortunate
position that we are in today.
826
00:40:16,152 --> 00:40:19,895
All of these people
went down a path
827
00:40:19,939 --> 00:40:22,942
that was, at the time,
unheard of,
828
00:40:22,985 --> 00:40:25,292
and, in a way,
we are standing on
829
00:40:25,335 --> 00:40:27,599
the shoulders of giants
830
00:40:27,642 --> 00:40:30,776
because through the work
of the pioneers
831
00:40:30,819 --> 00:40:33,169
and through
shows like Ancient Aliens,
832
00:40:33,213 --> 00:40:36,782
and now almost everybody
who has had an experience
833
00:40:36,825 --> 00:40:40,133
feels compelled
to tell their story
834
00:40:40,176 --> 00:40:43,658
because it has become
more accepted,
835
00:40:43,702 --> 00:40:46,139
and the so-called zeitgeist
836
00:40:46,182 --> 00:40:49,142
has changed in our favor.
837
00:40:49,185 --> 00:40:51,318
Well, I think you're right.
838
00:40:51,361 --> 00:40:54,800
It's been a great conversation
with you guys.
839
00:40:54,843 --> 00:40:58,064
It's just-just a
fascinating subject, of course.
840
00:40:58,107 --> 00:40:59,718
Yeah, thank you very much
for the information, Nick.
841
00:40:59,761 --> 00:41:02,590
And everything that
we've talked about today
842
00:41:02,634 --> 00:41:06,159
illustrates this disclosure
that has been going on
843
00:41:06,202 --> 00:41:09,423
for a very long time,
and I can't wait to see
844
00:41:09,467 --> 00:41:12,295
what the future holds,
and I thank you for your time.
845
00:41:12,339 --> 00:41:13,775
-Thank you.
-Thanks, Nick.
846
00:41:13,819 --> 00:41:15,995
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