All language subtitles for The Last Drive-In with Joe Bob Briggs S28E09 Carnival of Souls 1080p AMZN WEB-DL DDP2 0 H 264-BFM_track3_[eng]

♪

-♪ Hey, everybody,
have you heard the news? ♪

♪ Joe Bob is back in town

♪ He's over at the drive-in,
hanging around ♪

♪ Watching crazy movies,
so come on down ♪

♪ To Joe Bob's
"Last Drive-In" show ♪

♪ Blood, beasties,
boobies, and more ♪

♪ Joe Bob's
"Last Drive-In" show ♪

♪ It's a spooky good time
with monsters and ghosts ♪

♪ Crazy, kooky fun
with the world's greatest host ♪

♪ Joe Bob's
"Last Drive-In" show ♪

♪ It's gonna be legendary

♪ Joe Bob's
"Last Drive-In" show ♪

♪ It's gonna be very scary

♪ Joe Bob's
"Last Drive-In" show ♪

♪ Let's go

♪

[Static crackles]

-Okay, Darcy,
take notes on this.

I've decided the following terms

can no longer be used
on this show.

-Do I really need
to take notes?

-Yes. We need to be developing
a "Last Drive-In" style guide.

So, let me put it this way.

Using any of these phrases
will be regarded as profanity.

-Fuck!

-Is that a comment?
-[Laughs]

-I'm just saying we don't
really care about profanity

here in the first place.

-Okay, let me put it this way.

After I finish this rant,

you will not want to say
any of these phrases.

-Will it annoy you
if I say them?

-Yes.
-Then no promises.

-Okay.
-Numero uno..."Hidden Gem."

-I know where
you're going with this one.

-I haven't started yet!

How can you know
where I'm going?

-Because once in a while,

I actually listened to you
when you're not on camera.

-Okay. I guess
I've talked about this before,

but people want me to tell
them about the "hidden gem,"

the great movie
that no one knows about.

People assume that somebody in
1947 made a 35-millimeter film

that played in one theater
in Sheboygan, Wisconsin.

But then it got tied up
in litigation,

and the producer/director died
of syphilis,

and the only print
was assumed to be lost.

But, really, all this time,
it's been stored

in the backroom
of a grain-storage facility

in Iowa City

because the syphilitic genius
who created it

left it in his will

to the mentally impaired son
of his estranged brother.

And the nephew used the film
cans for bowling-ball cases.

And then one entire reel
was warped after being soaked

in grape juice

and left on the ledge
of a barred window

at the Iowa Lunatic Asylum
in Mount Pleasant

after the nephew died intestate.

A Henry County deputy sheriff
found the can in 1998

and gave it to the projectionist

at the Temple Theater
on Main Street,

and he eventually screened it
for Lonnie Wilson,

editor and publisher of
a fanzine in western Nebraska,

and Lonnie then spent
the next 20 years tracking down

the other reels,
restoring them frame by frame,

and writing letters
to Quentin Tarantino

so that he could unveil
his hidden gem

at the Sheboygan Theater
on Eighth Street

after a preview at the Wild
Wicked Weekend horror convention

in Eagle Pass, Texas.

Does that about sum up
how it works?

-You think those
"discovery" stories are fake?

-Not necessarily fake,
just really, really exaggerated.

There are no hidden gems.

There are 30 trillion words
on the Internet.

If the movie exists,
it's not hidden.

Somebody knows about it.

Any film produced between 1888
and yesterday

is not only known to exist

but has probably been released
to the public

somewhere, somehow.

-I don't think
anybody thinks that

tonight's movie is a hidden gem.

-Well, but for a long time
they did.

And I'm going to explain
exactly how that works.

But let me do this first.
-Okay.

-Numero two-oh...
"Neglected Masterpiece."

Just because nobody
knew about the film

for 50 years does not make
it a neglected masterpiece.

Some movies are just neglected.

It could be a neglected piece
of crapola.

Numero three-oh...
"Rediscovered Cult Classic."

You know what this means?

Somebody found a bunch of
old movies in cardboard boxes

in a storage unit
in Monkey's Eyebrow, Kentucky,

and tried to make some money
off stuff in the public domain.

We can't have 17,000
cult classics.

They can't be all cult classics.

If they're all cult classics,

then my grandpa's Kodak
8-millimeter Christmas movies

made with a light panel so hot
it could set the tree on fire

would be taught in film schools.

The best one grandpa ever made
was

"Joe Bob Refuses to Remove
His Cowboy Hat for Five Weeks,

Including While Sleeping,

Due to an Embarrassing
Burr Haircut."

That movie consists
entirely of scenes in which

my sisters violently try
to knock the hat off my head.

Do you see what I'm talking
about here?

I mean, we showed "Demon Wind"
on this show,

and it was fun and everything,

but three weeks later it was
being touted as a cult classic

and they were having
midnight screenings

all across the country.

"Demon Wind" is
not a cult classic,

and neither are 98%
of the other cult classics.

-Can I please get a copy
of that movie with your sisters?

-No! It's not a cult classic.

-It is to me.
-All right.

-But the cult classics aren't
cult classics?

-No, most of them are not.

Okay. Numero four-oh...

"Taking the Festival Circuit
by Storm."

No, you're not.

[Laughter]

You got runner-up
for best cinematography

at the Senegalese
Fantasy Festival

held at a cheap hotel in Dakar.

Get over yourself!
Numero five-oh...

"Lovingly Restored."

You scrubbed all
the sweat stains

off the pock-marked celluloid
and fixed a splice.

You know what's funny
about this?

Some theaters refuse
to show anything

but an original
35-millimeter print

when there's a perfectly good
restored version on a Blu-ray.

My buddy Jeff Lieberman was
invited to Quentin Tarantino's

New Beverly Theater in L.A.

so they could honor his
1981 slasher "Just Before Dawn,"

and he begged them
to show the Blu-ray,

which had been cleaned up,

and it showed all
the beautiful

panoramic-landscape shots that
he got in the Oregon mountains.

The original prints had turned
kind of pink and murky,

but the theater
absolutely refused.

They said their motto was
"Always on film."

And not only
did the picture suck,

but about 20 minutes
into the film,

the sprocket got stuck,
and several frames burned up.

You know how that happens when
you see a flame in front of you?

It took another 20 minutes
to splice the film back together

and restart it.

Anyway, it can be lovingly
restored,

but it can still be crap!

And even
if it is lovingly restored,

Quentin Tarantino doesn't care.

-You know,
he made "Satan's Little Helper."

-Jeff Lieberman.

Yes, he did.
He made "Satan's Little Helper."

So, all right.

-We really,
really have to show that one.

-What? You love
"Satan's Little Helper"?

-Yes,
I love "Satan's Little Helper."

Like, so much.
I've been asking for it forever!

-Actually, Jeff and I
are going to go to Belmont Park

and feed the ponies next week.

So, I'll tell you what.

I'll ask him
about "Satan's Little Helper."

-Oh, my God, please.

But, also,
you're going to go feed ponies?

That's so sweet.

-Don't be sarcastic, Darcy.
-That's not sarcastic.

-Okay, I have one more
profane phrase to talk about.

Numero six-oh...
"Rescued from Obscurity."

It was not rescued.
It developed some fanboys,

many of whom love it
because everybody else hates it.

-What about fangirls?
-It's possible.

But the rescue-from-obscurity
fable is usually a guy

who never leaves his apartment

and spends every waking hour
trying

to get people to appreciate
the genius

of "Evil Wore Spiked Heels,
Part 3."

Even when he gets that big Alamo
Drafthouse screening in Lubbock,

the rescue doesn't inspire
any other first responders.

But he'll tell us all
about the moment

when "We thought
it was lost forever,

but we fished it out
of a toilet in Gatlinburg."

Okay. Why am I doing this?

Because we're showing
"Carnival of Souls" tonight.

-Yay! Whoo!

-Carnival of Souls" is
the second-most popular movie

on local cable horror shows.

And you know why?

-Because it's free!

-That's right.
It is in public domain.

So, if you're starting out
as a YouTube horror host,

first you show
"Night of the Living Dead."

then your second movie
will be "Carnival of Souls."

But as recently as 1989,

"Carnival of Souls"
was unknown to almost everybody.

It was released in 1962,

but it was not seen by anyone
until 27 years later.

And it's a great film.

So, it sort of fought
its way out of obscurity.

It set up the formula
for releasing an old movie

that's gone out of copyright.
So it's an actual hidden gem.

It's an actual
neglected masterpiece.

It's become a cult classic.

It did take the festival circuit
by storm.

It was lovingly restored
by the Criterion Collection.

And it was rescued
from obscurity.

I've seen two or three
different people take credit

for doing the rescue,

but the director had saved
the answer print,

and he had stored it in
a temperature-controlled place.

So, it was sort of rescued
by him.

At any rate, he thing
"Carnival of Souls" had going

for it was college professors.

If you can get the college
professors behind a movie

that they would have refused
to send their kids to

when it first came out, you win!
And ever since then,

various college professors
have been finding old movies

and saying, "Hey, this might be
another 'Carnival of Souls.'"

And usually they're big,
fat liars.

In fact, maybe the reason
a college professor liked

"Carnival of Souls" so much
is that it was directed

by a college professor,
Herk Harvey,

the only person I've ever heard
of who got a PhD in theater.

Besides making 400 films,

he was a professor
at the University of Kansas.

So, "Carnival of Souls" was made
in 1962, in Lawrence, Kansas.

It was made by real people,
normal drive-in people,

people who love zombies, ghosts,
dancing, bloody corpses.

But when they first put it out,
nobody understood it.

No, wait. Let me correct that.

The people who go see drive-in
movies understood it,

but the critics didn't like it,

and the theater owners
didn't like it.

And the distribution
company thought,

"Well, it's kind of
a strange movie."

And so they do an ad campaign
that basically says,

"Watch this because it's weird,"

which is never a
winning marketing strategy.

And the church didn't like it

because it seems to be making
fun of religious people.

And so, it just kind of dried up
and petered out.

And the original investors lost
all their money.

And then, ten years later,
it turns up

on the late, late, late show
in a drastically cut version,

and you're watching it
and you're saying, "Hey, look.

He ripped off
George Romero

in 'Night of the Living Dead.'"

But then you see
the movie was released in 1962,

six years before "Night
of the Living Dead."

So, bingo! Cult classic.

All of a sudden people
want to know,

who is this guy
that made this movie?

And so then a bunch of guys
start doing research

and they find Herk Harvey,

and they find out this was his
only feature film he ever made.

-I'm sorry, but didn't
you just say he made 400 films?

-Yeah, he did,
but they were not feature films.

-Oh, sorry.
-I'll get to that in a minute.

And it stars a gal
named Candace Hilligoss.

And this was the only
starring role she ever had.

And then you find out

that Brian De Palma stole
a lot of the stuff

he used in "Carrie"
from "Carnival of Souls,"

and then the next thing
you know, oh, God, not that!

The New York Times
is writing about it.

Does anybody remember
Vincent Canby,

the most boring man alive?
Anybody?

He was the chief film critic
at The Times,

and he decided to be --

this is a good story
about Vincent Canby.

He decided it was going to be
really hip

and review "The Texas
Chainsaw Massacre"...

in 1985, 11 years
after it came out!

[Laughter]

-Wow.

-And while we're
on that subject,

I was offended that
The New York Timeswrote a big,

adoring obituary
for Roger Corman

when he passed away
earlier this year,

when they gave zero love
to his movies as a director

and rarely any of his movies
as a producer.

In fact, some of his movies
never got reviewed at all

by The New York Times.

They should at least say
in the obituary

that they have revised
their opinion of his importance.

-Well, you really hate
The New York Times.

-Well, I don't
really like their arrogance.

Okay, where was I?
Look in your notes.

-They're thorough.

The media discovered
"Carnival of Souls."

-Right. The media discovered
"Carnival of Souls."

Thank you.
-You're welcome.

-And then somebody
that works at a film museum

decides to go back to Lawrence,
Kansas,

and find Herk Harvey

and see if they can't get
a perfect, mint-condition,

35-millimeter print
of the movie.

And then it gets its world
re-premiere at a film festival.

And in this case,
I was at the festival,

the USA Film Festival in Dallas.
And if I remember correctly,

the discoverer was
Gordon K. Smith.

And then before you know it,

it's booked at Film Forum
in New York.

There are tribute screenings
everywhere.

You got 900 guys
in suits paying $500 each

to watch a movie that in 1962

they would have dismissed
as a pile of garbage.

And in fact, the movie was shown
in Lawrence, Kansas, in 1990,

first time in 28 years,
as a benefit

for the city's film commission.

Yes, they have a film commission
in Lawrence, Kansas.

-Okay. So, sorry.

I just want to make
sure I get this right.

You made a list
of all the things

that we should not say
about movies.

-Yes.
-Okay.

But you literally just said all
of that

about "Carnival of Souls."

-Well, yes,
because this was the true one,

where all these things are true,

that all the false ones
are copying.

-Ahh! But did you really
need to refer to the false ones?

-No.
-But you couldn't resist.

-Oh, I'm saying that before
they became marketing gimmicks,

these words had meaning.

But I also can't resist
pointing out

that lame people are having
premieres for the movie in 1990,

when the movie already had its
real premiere at the drive-in.

And it will always be
a drive-in movie,

no matter how many books
are published about it

by university presses.

And I don't like it when Siskel
and Ebert and Leonard Maltin

and the UCLA Department of Film
suddenly say,

"Oh, okay, it's all right now
to watch this

particular exploitation movie.
It's not as gross as the others"

because that's a form
of censorship

just like the Video Nasty List
was a form of censorship.

It's like a reverse
Video Nasty List.

"We're going to tell you
which movies are okay to watch."

The Catholic Church does
the same thing.

They have a list of movies
that are okay to watch.

But these critics and professors

are the same people
who call "I Spit on Your Grave"

the most disgusting movie
ever made.

Why? Hadn't been reviewed
by The New York "Slimes,"

hadn't been shown
at the USA Film Festival.

I don't like it when
the eggheads steal our heritage.

-Well, all right, then.

I think
your defense was a strong one.

But you know what?

We should probably show
the movie now.

-And we will.
-Okay.

-And what we have here
is the sensitive story

of a church organist

who's the only survivor in a car
that gets run off a bridge

during a drag race.

But once she gets out
of the water,

she loses her desire for men,
for beer and for her own family.

All she wants to do
is play the organ

at all hours of the day
and night

and poke around in this creepy,
abandoned amusement park

where the zombies come
every night to waltz.

A doctor tries to tell her
she's having a guilt feeling.

The man who lives
across the hall

and hits on her
every chance he gets

tells her she's off her rocker.

The preacher says she's profane.

Her landlady says, "You just let

your imagination run away
with you."

The guy at the gas station says
she has a transmission problem.

And the zombies tell her,
"Come with us.

Come and dance."

What's a poor, single girl
in a strange town to do?

Let me put it this way.

She wears out quite
a few pairs of high heels

running to
where she's got to go.

So, let's look at the drive-in
totals and get started.

We have 19 dead bodies,
16 undead bodies, no breasts.

And there was a chance
to grab some.

One motor vehicle chase
with watery crash,

zombie bus tour,

one abandoned carnival pavilion,
one supernatural stalker,

church organ fu, zombie fu,

"Drive-In" Academy Award
nominations

for Candace Hilligoss

as the wandering
pipe-organ enthusiast

for saying, "I don't belong
in the world" and "In the dark,

your fantasies get
so far out of hand."

Francis Feist as the creepy, old
rooming-house lady for saying,

"You can take all the baths
you want."

Art Ellison

as the minister
for saying, "You cannot live

in isolation
from the human race, you know?"

Sidney Berger as
the letch next door for saying,

"You're going to need me
in the evening.

You just don't know it yet."

And Herk Harvey for producing,

directing, and playing

the head zombie.

"Drive-in" Hall of Fame --

four stars.

Joe Bob says, "Check it out."

You know, and there's some
breathtaking cinematography

in this thing.

In fact, I want to add

a "Drive-In" Academy Award
nomination.

Can you put the "Drive-In"
totals back up, Austin?

-Sure. Here you go.
-Okay.

Maurice Prather working mostly
handheld

with a 75-pound Arriflex

and just a 5-man crew
and available light.

And he creates
truly amazing images

that creep you the fuck out.

This was made at a time

when there were still
camera guys who knew

how to shoot gorgeous
black and white.

With a movie like this,

everything looks spookier
in black and white,

and I think actors look
better in black and white.

-Maybe we should do the "Last
Drive-In" in black and white.

-Hmm.
-Hmm?

-I don't know.
Austin, is that even possible?

-Yeah, I think we could do that.
Give me a second.

-Yay.
-Yeah.

-Kansas has to be
in black and white.

Because, remember,
in "The Wizard of Oz,"

the part in Kansas
is black and white.

And then when she lands in Oz,
it turns to color.

And they used to have to put
text crawls

when it would play on TV.

"There is nothing wrong
with your set.

The first part of the movie
is in black and white."

-Wow.
-And then...oh.

-There you go.

-Ooh!

-That was quick.

Darcy?
-I'm digging it.

-Look,
I'm sitting next to Jean Harlow.

No, it's Marlene Dietrich.

No! Maybe it's Grace Kelly.
-Toni Storm.

-No. Those are the only ones
I can think of who were blonde.

Why didn't they use more
blondes?

Maybe black and white
wasn't good for blonde.

Maybe nobody went blonde
in the '20s and '30s and '40s.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait!
I know one. Veronica Lake.

Veronica Lake.

The blonde was always
the femme fatale.

How appropriate.

-What does that mean?

-The blonde was always
the bad girl.

-Oh. How appropriate.

-I told you.

What do I look like in black
and white?

Jimmy Stewart or Rock Hudson?

-Honestly,
I'm seeing Art Carney.

-Art Carney?
I don't look like Art Carney.

-Oh,
I'm sticking with Art Carney.

[Laughter]

♪

♪

-Hey, Joe, drag your foot, boy.
Look what we got here.

Hey, you wanna drag, huh?

-Sure.
-[Laughs]

-Come on, man.
Get ready.

[Engines revving]

[Tires screeching]

-I'll show them how to drive.
Just watch me.

[Horn honks]

[Tires screeching]

[Clanging]

-Aahhh!

[Water gurgling]

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

-Sir, as high as this river
is right now and with all

the mud and sand it's carryin',
they may never find that car.

-There were three girls in it.

-Unh-unh.

-Right there.

-All right, now, let's hear your
story about how it happened.

-It wasn't our fault, sir.

-Yeah?

-We were the first ones
on the bridge and coming

a-along, following the
tracks, and they wanted

to get around us, I guess,
and they lost control,

and they dropped off.

-You sure you didn't
crowd 'em off?

♪

♪

-Three hours.

-Yeah? Not sure I wanna
find that car now.

-With this sand
and with that current,

we may never find 'em.

-Yeah, all I guess we
can do is keep tryin'.

♪

-Come on.
Let's get down!

♪

♪

♪

-Come on.
Let's get down there.

♪

♪

♪

-Uh, it's Mary Henry.

-Are you all right?

-How'd you get out?

-Here, put this on.

We better get you
back to town.

-What about the other girls?

-I don't remember.

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

[Car door opens]

[Car door closes]

[Organ plays]

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

-Is this like the one
I'll be playing in Utah?

-It's quite similar.

I supervised
the installation myself.

The accident won't delay
your going, will it?

-No.
I'm leaving this morning.

There's nothing I can do here.

-That's right.

Well, Mary, you'll
make a fine organist

for that church.

Be very satisfying
to you, I think.

-It's just a job to me.

-Well, it's not
quite the attitude

for going into church work.

-I'm not taking the vows.

I'm only going to
play the organ.

-Oh, you want
more than that.

Of course, it doesn't
pay much, but, well,

at least it's a start.

Are you driving by Benton
to see your folks?

-No. I can't.

I-I-I must hurry.
I-I-I've got to leave.

I'm going to drive
straight through.

-Mary, it takes more than
intellect to be a musician.

Put your soul into
it a little, okay?

Good luck, Mary.

Stop by and see us
the next time you're in.

-Thank you, but I'm
never coming back.

[Motor whirring]

♪

♪

[Static crackles]

[Upbeat music plays]

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

[Suspenseful music plays]

♪

♪

[Tempo quickens]

♪

♪

♪

[Gasps]

[Engine revs]

♪

♪

♪

[Gasps]

[Tires screeching]

[Engine sputters]

[Tires screeching]

♪

-Been savin' it for you
since I got your letter.

Could've rented it
yesterday, if I'd wanted.

-Oh, it-it's fine.

It-it's just about
what I expected.

-I knew you'd like it.

This ain't no regular
roomin' house, you know.

I only got you and
Mr. Linden across the hall.

Each room's got its own
private bathroom, too.

You can take all
the baths you want.

I'm not one to fuss
about things like that.

-Thank you.

I think I'll be
quite comfortable.

-Well, hope you'll
stay a while.

I'm downstairs, in the
back part of the house,

so if there's anything
else you need,

I guess it'll have to
wait till morning.

Good night.

-Good night, Mrs. Thomas.

[Suspenseful music plays]

♪

♪

♪

♪

-And this, Miss Henry,
is our pride and joy.

-You know, this was
made in the same town

where I've been studying.

-Of course.

That's where we
heard about you.

Oh, by the way, you have
found a place to stay?

-Yes, I have a room.

-Good.

Well, we hope you're
going to like it here.

We're not the largest church
in this area, of course,

but we have a nice
congregation.

We'll have to have
some sort of reception.

They'll want to meet you.

-Couldn't we just skip that?

-Skip that?

Well, I don't suppose it's
an absolute necessity.

I don't know what some
of the ladies will say.

-If they say
I'm a fine organist,

that should be enough,
shouldn't it?

-Well, yes, of course.

We'll let it go at that
for the time being.

But, my dear,
you cannot live in isolation

from the human race, you know.

-Mind if I try this now?

-I want you to.

[Organ begins]

♪

You go right ahead.

I'll be next door at the
manse, if you need me.

♪

♪

We have an organist capable
of stirring the soul.

♪

♪

[Suspenseful music plays]

[Organ resumes]

♪

♪

[Suspenseful music plays]

♪

[Foosteps approaching]

What do you see?

-Oh, nothing,
nothing at all.

I've practiced all afternoon,
and it's gotten me in a mood.

-You need some fresh air.

I've got to make a call
out past the lake.

Would you like to come
along for the ride?

-You know that old
pavilion out there?

-Mm-hmm.

-Will we pass it?

-Go right by it.

Stop and look at it if you like.

-I would, with you along.

-Good.

♪

♪

♪

[Wind howls]

This used to be quite a place.

It's been deserted
for a long time now.

-Will you take me in?

-Why, goodness no.

It isn't safe out
there anymore.

That's why they put up
this barrier.

-It'd be very easy
to step around it.

-What attraction could there
be for you out there?

-I'm not sure.

I'm a reasonable person.
I don't know.

Maybe I want to satisfy
myself that the place

is nothing more than
it appears to be.

Would you take me out there?

-[Laughing] No.

The law has placed it
off-limits.

Wouldn't be very seemly for
a minister to break the law,

would it?

-No.

Maybe I can come
back some other time.

-Shall we go along now?

♪

♪

[Wind howls]

♪

[Static crackles]

-See what I mean
about that gorgeous

black-and-white cinematography,

from the moment Mary walks up
out of the Kaw River.

And how can you be
that good-looking

with that much mud on your body?

The movie is just one
stunning image after another.

That room
where she practices the organ

is the main assembly hall
of the Reuter Organ Company,

which had been building
pipe organs since 1880

and building them in that room
since 1919.

And John Clifford,
the screenwriter,

wanted
that eerie overhead shot of Mary

among those giant organs.

And so he gave Mary
the occupation of organist.

He and director Herk Harvey
became more

and more attached to the idea

that organ music could be used
to suggest Mary's inner turmoil,

and so composer
Gene Moore eventually wrote

an all-organ score, which is
the only one I've ever heard of.

And, of course,

the other iconic shot is
the first time

Mary sees the
abandoned amusement park.

It seems to rise up
out of nowhere,

like a church and a castle
and a fairy-tale city

transported
from some other dimension.

It is,
in fact, a place called Saltair

that billed itself
as the Coney Island of the West,

and it advertised
the healing waters

of the Great Salt Lake
as "America's Dead Sea,"

where you can't sink no matter
how hard you try.

And it also featured the world's
biggest dance floor.

5,000 couples could dance
to the music of the big bands --

Glenn Miller's
orchestra was one of those --

and the world's
tallest roller coaster.

But by the time
Herk Harvey set eyes on it,

when he was driving back to
Kansas from a job in California,

the edge of the Great Salt Lake
had long since

receded into the distance,

and the nearest water was
a mile and a half away.

And the Utah attraction that had
stood there for seven decades

had fallen into ruins.

So, he told friends,

"It's just the coolest location
I have ever seen in my life."

Piers with no water,
a pleasure dome with no people,

an empty ballroom where 10,000
people once danced together,

and as soon
as he got back to Lawrence,

he sought out his colleague
John Clifford at Centron Films,

where they both worked, and
he said, "Write me a feature."

And Clifford said, "About what?"
And Harvey said, "I don't care.

I just want it to end up
with specters and ghouls

rising up out of the lake
and dancing in that ballroom."

So, both men had vacations
coming up.

Clifford needed two weeks
to write the script.

A business friend of Harvey
needed one weekend

to raise $17,000,
selling shares for $500 each.

And Harvey calculated he
could make the film for $30,000.

So, if he and Clifford

and the cinematographer
all deferred their salaries,

that $17,000 was just enough
to get it done that summer.

Okay, so, Darcy.
-Yes?

-What do the
following people have in common?

Tobe Hooper, Robert Altman,
Herk Harvey, George Romero?

-They made movies.
[Laughter]

-Well, they made movies,
correct.

But they made independent movies
away from the Hollywood system

long before anybody else
was doing that.

And the thing they all
had in common

was they owned the equipment.

Tobe Hooper, director of
"The Texas Chainsaw Massacre,"

was part owner of a company
in Austin

that made educational films,

industrial films,
and commercials.

George Romero, director
of "Night of the Living Dead,"

was part owner
of a company in Pittsburgh

that made educational films,

industrial films,
and commercials.

Robert Altman,

whose first movie was
"The Delinquents,"

a 1957 hot rod/wild youth
picture,

was part owner of a company
in Kansas City

that made educational films,

industrial films,
and commercials.

Herk Harvey,
director of "Carnival of Souls,"

was the top director
at Centron Films,

a Lawrence, Kansas, company

that was the largest studio
in America

for three types
of films -- educational,

industrial, and commercial.

Now, the reason you didn't have
hundreds of indie films in 1962,

the way you do today,

is that "A," nobody
could afford the cameras

and other equipment,
"B," there were no film schools,

"C," there was no way

to guarantee your film
would be distributed,

even if you made it and "D,"
everything was shot on film,

which meant mistakes were
expensive

and risk was very great.

But somebody
who excelled at educational,

industrial, and commercial films
would know how to shoot fast,

shoot cheap,
shoot with available locations,

and edit
for a demanding audience,

that demanding
audience being his clients.

Herk Harvey, according
to everybody who ever knew him,

was the best at that game.

He was a bundle of energy and
enthusiasm and personal charm,

and no one could resist him.

And, like, "Carnival of Souls"

starts out with this dangerous
street race with a car full

of guys and a car full
of girls playing chicken

on the highways of Kansas.
Well, at Centron Films,

they had made dozens
of highway-safety films

for the schools of America,
some of which were still playing

in high school classrooms
20 years later.

So a chase scene like that was
just an easy afternoon's work.

"Carnival of Souls"

then continues with some trick
photography in a moving car,

as a strange,

ghoulish stalker follows
Mary everywhere she goes.

Well, at Centron Films,

this would be the kind of
special effect

they'd use dozens of times
for clients like Monsanto,

John Deere, ACDelco.

So, Harvey not only knew how
to shoot, he knew how to edit.

"Carnival of Souls"
also uses an actress who,

one week
before she arrived in Kansas,

was studying with Lee Strasberg,

the founder
of the Actors Studio,

in a class with
Marilyn Monroe and Roy Scheider.

No one at Centron Films
would be surprised by that.

They had made films
with Walter Pidgeon,

Ricardo Montalban, Rowan and
Martin, Ed Ames, Anita Bryant,

and they were, in fact,

the only one of
those educational, industrial,

commercial operations to be
nominated for an Academy Award.

They had a 1971 film
about a severely disabled man

who triumphed
over all his setbacks

and became an
award-winning clockmaker.

Herk Harvey himself
was an actor.

He had appeared in dozens
of stage productions.

He had directed dozens
of stage productions.

He had taught acting
at the University of Kansas.

He was not a fan
of Lee Strasberg,

and he let Candace Hilligoss
know that.

And I actually think the tension
between the two of them

is what perfected
her great performance.

In other words,

Herk Harvey, already a legend
in Kansas

for this immense energy
and ability

to work anywhere in the world
with extremely small crews,

was not some newbie.

You know,
he brought to the production

a couple of dozen people
he had worked with for years,

and he helped them
to do their best work.

His instructions to Maurice
Prather, his cinematographer,

were, "I want the look
of Jean Cocteau,

but the feel of Ingmar Bergman."
In other words,

he wanted a mundane narrative
in a fantastic setting,

creating the clash

that had to be going on inside
the mind of the main character.

In later years, Herk Harvey
would go to film festivals,

and he would always
be asked the question,

"Why did you just direct
one film?"

And he always bristled
at that question.

"I directed 400 films," he said.

He just never directed
another theatrical feature

because of events
beyond his control.

But we will talk about that
later.

Right now, let's
get back to the odyssey of Mary,

the church organist,
as she tackles her new life.

Roll the film.

Did you notice, Darcy,

that I used a French name
without complaining?

-I did.

I wrote that down,
and I'm very proud of you.

-See, Cocteau?
That's a reasonable French name.

Because I can say the word
"cock."

-Yes.
-And I can say the word "toe."

-But what is his first name?

-Darcy, why are you so mean?
I was just celebrating.

-I just asked the name.
I don't think I caught it.

-Jean, Jean.
-Jean.

-All right,
I'm going to try again.

-Jean, Jean, Jean.
Jean.

You had to spoil it.
-Sorry!

-I said it right the first time,

when I was
not thinking about it.

But now I'm thinking about it.
Jean, like Joan of Arc or...

-Uh, I think Joan is female,
so it's probably not Joan.

-Then what is it,
smarty pants?

-I mean, I don't presume
to say a French word.

You do. Keep going.

-Jean.
-Get it right.

-Jean, Jean.

-Okay, boss. You got it.
We forgive you.

-They shouldn't let
French people make movies.

-And all the film professors
in America and Europe

will agree with you.

-Now you're being
condescending.

-Aw, you're so sensitive.

-Jean!
-Nailed it.

-Do you mean that?

-Oui.

[Laughter]

-Ah, I thought
that it would be you.

-Good evening.

-Organ playing must take
a long time.

You've been gone most
the whole day.

-I went for a long drive
in the country with my new boss,

an elderly minister.

-Oh! That must have been
a kick in the head.

-[Laughs]

-I learned that from
my other boarder, Mr. Linden.

Do you get your supper?

-Oh, I forgot.

-Well, This ain't
no boardinghouse,

but I got some coffee
and sandwich makings left.

I could bring you some
up after a while.

-Good!

I'll be taking one of those
baths you're so generous with.

-Well, take as many as you want.

I ain't one to make a fuss
about a thing like that.

[Water running]

[Knock on door]

[Water running]

[Water stops]

[Water dripping]

-Come in, Mrs. Thomas!

Just -- just a minute.

[Gasps]

I thought you were Mrs. Thomas.

-Yeah, I, uh, wondered
when you asked me in.

I'm John Linden.

I'm your neighbor
right across the hall.

-Nice to meet you.
Would you excuse me?

-Hey, I, uh,
I'm just wondering,

if you're not doing --
-Just stand right there.

[Sensual music plays]

♪

♪

I forgot to introduce myself.
I'm Mary Henry.

-Yeah, I know.

I, uh,

I heard you tell Mrs. Thomas you
haven't ate anything yet, huh?

Well, I just thought,
being neighborly and all,

I haven't eaten anything,
either.

I just thought maybe I'd
ask you out to dinner.

-Oh, that -- that's very
thoughtful of you,

but I can't accept.

-I know, I know.
We haven't met or anything yet.

But I just thought --

-I'm sorry.
You'll have to excuse me.

-Look, there's a real
nice restaurant,

you know, right down the street.

And I just thought,
well, I'm the kind of guy

doesn't like to eat by himself.

-I've made arrangements
to eat in my room tonight.

-If, uh, you change your mind,
you just holler.

It looks kind of lonesome
in here.

-Good night, Mr. Linden.

♪

♪

♪

[Gasps]

♪

[Suspenseful music plays]

[Gasps]

♪

[Footsteps approaching]

♪

[Footsteps continue]

[Gasps]

♪

[Door creaks, shuts]

-Miss Henry?
It's Miss Thomas.

[Door rattles]

-Who's the man in the hall?

-The...

Oh, you must mean Mr. Linden.

He has the room across the hall.
-No!

I mean the other one.

-There is no other!

Me and you and Mr. Linden.

Us three is all
there is in this house.

-But -- but you must
have passed him out there.

-You're needing this food.

Going without eating
makes you jumpy sometimes.

Maybe you heard the boards pop
or something.

These old houses creak
worse than my knees.

-I didn't hear him, Mrs. Thomas.
I saw him.

-Now, don't talk that way.

I don't sleep so good as it is.

It's these old houses.
They...they're big enough

so that you could hide
a man in every corner.

You just gotta not let
your imagination run away,

Miss Henry.
-Are you going out there?!

-Well, of course.

There's nobody there.

Now, you just go and eat
that sandwich I made for you.

Don't drink the coffee if coffee
keeps you awake.

-It won't.

Coffee never keeps me awake.

[Suspenseful music plays]

♪

[Rain falls]

[Thunder rumbles]

♪

♪

[Thunder rumbles]

♪

♪

[Static crackles]

-So, Mary's journey keeps
getting redirected.

She's redirected in a hostile
way by the supernatural ghoul

or whatever that guy is.

The spooky-man role is played by
Herk Harvey himself, by the way.

And then there's that
strange attraction pulling her

toward the decaying
pleasure dome.

There she is, standing
at her window, unable to sleep,

staring at it,
knowing she has to go there,

but not knowing
why she has to go there.

So, all these early scenes are
what I call

the mansplaining section.
The owner of the organ factory

tells her she needs to put
her soul into her new job.

She says, "No thank you.
It's just a job."

She's not concerned
with her soul.

He asked her
if she's planning to say goodbye

to her parents in Benton,
which is near Topeka,

and just slightly out of the way
when you're driving to Utah,

and she says, no,
she doesn't have time.

She's driving straight through.

He invites her to come by
when she comes back.

No, she says, she's
never coming back.

People keep telling
her she should have feelings

that she doesn't have.

The minister tells her she can't
isolate herself from the world.

That's exactly what
she wants to do.

Her lecherous neighbor tells her
she should go out with him,

or else she'll be lonesome.

No, she won't.

There's a doctor coming up

who will talk to her about
her serious emotional shock,

even though she has none.

So, she's not interested
in family, friends,

what anybody thinks
of her, emotions of any kind.

And the first time
you watch this movie,

you'll be searching
on her blank face

to find out what she's thinking,

and you won't be able to quite
nail it, which is brilliant.

So, I mentioned before that

Candace Hilligoss
is a method actress,

not just the method,

but the method
as invented by Lee Strasberg,

who was her teacher.

For whatever reason,
"Carnival of Souls"

has attracted
a lot of academic attention,

and a frequent incorrect
assertion in academic writing

about this movie
is that it was achieved

with non-professional actors.
This is not the case.

It was just cast
with theater actors.

There was a rich tradition
up through the '60s --

they called it
the little-theatre movement --

of professional resident
acting companies

in cities and towns
all across America,

but especially in Kansas.

Kansas was where William Inge
came from, for God's sake.

The creator of "Picnic"
and "Bus Stop"

and "Splendor in the Grass"

And he was a graduate of the
very speech-and-drama department

at the University of Kansas that
was later run by Herk Harvey.

So, the little-theater movement
was kind of like Off-Broadway --

professional productions,

but smaller theaters than
Broadway with lower budgets.

And that's
where these actors came from.

Well, actually, the landlady
was a Broadway actress.

Frances Feist was in "Harvey"
on Broadway.

She was from Kansas.

She started her career there,

but most of her career
was in San Francisco,

which also had a Broadway-level
stage-play community.

But Art Ellison, for example,

who played the minister,
extremely well-known

in Kansas City.

His family had
moved from Potsdam, New York,

to Kansas City when he was
just 18 years old in 1917,

and he got a job
at the electric company,

and he was still working at the
electric company 68 years later.

But in the meantime,

he had worked for all
the famous theater companies

in Kansas and Missouri,
like Chanticleer Players,

the Blackfriars,
the Resident Theater,

Missouri Repertory Theater.

He was cast in any movie
that came through Missouri.

He was in Peter Bogdanovich's
"Paper Moon."

He had done lots of radio drama,
very familiar to Herk Harvey

because of dozens
of roles in Centron Films.

That's
not a non-professional actor,

but this was fairly typical
of the whole cast.

They were not non-professionals.

They were professionals

who had worked in hundreds
of productions,

some of them written

and directed by Herk Harvey and
John Clifford working together.

So, when Harvey started
casting the movie,

he auditioned several girls
for the role of Mary,

but he didn't think any
of them had the right look

or the right sensibility.

But one of his graduate students
at Kansas University

was planning a trip to New York
to visit his family.

So, Harvey said,
"Look, I don't have the funds

for us to go up there
and do a casting session,

but see if you can appeal
to one of the agencies

and find an actress for me."

So, the grad student goes up
to New York City,

finds a childhood friend
who knows an acting agent.

They set up in his office, and
they start auditioning girls.

And Candace Hilligoss walks in.

And so the grad student
offers her the job --

two weeks' work in Kansas
and Utah for $2,000 --

and she said later
it seemed like $1 million to her

because both she and her husband

were struggling actors
working low-paid jobs.

But she also had
another offer the same week,

and that offer was
in Connecticut,

which would mean she
could stay home with her husband

and still do the job.

But that job required
two nude scenes,

and at that time she didn't want
to do the nudity.

The Connecticut movie was
a more traditional

detective thriller,

so her agent was furious when
she accepted the Kansas job.

But within a matter of days,

she was getting on a plane
to Kansas City.

Now, shortly after takeoff,

the plane had to make
an emergency landing.

That caused a 4-hour delay
and a 12-hour travel day.

And when she stepped
off the plane

at the Kansas City airport,
her makeup had melted.

Her hair was a total mess.
She was dressed in the style

of what Herk Harvey
considered a beatnik.

And so, Harvey spent most of
the one-hour drive to Lawrence,

Kansas, making small talk
with her

but trying to figure out
how he was going to tell her

that he had to send
her home the next day.

So, the next morning
he goes to her hotel

to have the talk with her,

and when she steps out
of the elevator,

she has transformed herself
into the Garbo-esque beauty

that he had been searching for.

In fact, Candace's regular job
in New York

was that she was one
of the Copa Girls

at the Copacabana nightclub.

At the time, they were
considered the most beautiful,

beautiful girls
in show business.

So she knew how to glam up.
Herk Harvey apologized.

He didn't tell her
what had happened,

but he apologized to the
grad student who had found her

and casted her, and they started
working together on the script.

Now, the grad student
who cast her, by the way,

was Sidney Berger, who plays the
relentless creeper in the movie,

the character of John Linden,
the ultimate mansplainer,

because his message is
basically,

"Once you have sex with me,

you'll realize how lonesome
you are without me."

Anyway, the reason
I've gone on about this so long

is that Candace Hilligoss is
from a school of acting

that teaches how to react
to everything around you.

In fact, it's a cardinal sin to
do what's called "acting alone."

But because of the weird story
that they're dealing with,

Herk Harvey wanted her
to act alone.

She would say,

"What's my motivation
to go from here to there?"

And Harvey would say,
"No method, no method.

Your only motivation is
to get across the street

without getting killed."

And he wanted her character
to remain in isolation

from all the other characters,

and she kept fighting to connect
with the world of the movie.

And it's precisely that tension
that sells the part.

She wants to be with people,

but she doesn't want to be
with people.

All right,
let's get back to the story.

Roll it.

Sorry, Darcy.

I know that's way too much
acting talk, theater talk.

Do you like Mary?

-I do, yeah.

-Woman trying to live
alone in the world,

surrounded by judgment.
-Yeah, that never happens.

-And she's like,
"Just take me to the goldurn

creepy amusement park,
and I'll be fine."

-Yeah, I am all
about abandoned, creepy places.

-Only you would be
Instagramming that pavilion.

-Oh, my God. Of course!

-You know,

there are still a few abandoned
amusement parks out there.

We should do a road trip.
-Can we really do a road trip?

I would love to.

-Of course, the first one
that comes to my mind,

and probably the creepiest,
is Neverland

on Michael Jackson's
former estate

in Santa Ynez, California.

I saw pictures of that thing --
all overgrown with weeds.

Very creepy for a lot
of reasons.

-I feel like maybe that's
the last one we go to.

-Why?

-In the documentary
that I'm creating in my head.

-Oh, wow. Well,
you're way ahead of me.

-My sister worked
at one called Dogpatch USA

that's in the Ozarks.

And it went out of business.

They tried to sell it on eBay,
but no takers.

So, little Abner
is just rotting away out there

in the woods.
-That's so sad.

-But fascinating
at the same time, right?

There's a Flintstones one
in Arizona that closed.

There's one called
Santa Claus, Arizona

that fell into ruins.

I guess they thought
the North Pole in Arizona

was going to be a laugh riot.

You know, it didn't quite work.

We need one with ghouls, though.

I think the Wild West Town
in New Jersey finally closed.

-Oh, no, it's still open.

-Wild West City!

I did a convention there
with Kevin Van Hentenryck

from "Basket Case"

and the director of "Henry:
Portrait of a Serial Killer,"

and we signed autographs

while they were staging
the shootout at the OK Corral.

So, that's an amusement park
that was open,

but it felt closed.

-Maybe the performers were
ghosts.

-Yeah.
-[Laughs]

-Damn.
-Maybe.

-I should have paid
more attention.

-Is that the one
where you texted me

the picture
of the Headless Horseman?

-Yes, I did, Darcy.
Good memory.

The Headless Horseman rides
at Wild West City

right after the shootout
at the OK Corral.

If Herk Harvey had seen
Wild West City,

we'd have another movie.

♪

[Statc crackles]

[Alarm ringing]

[Ringing stops]

-Well, good morning!

I heard your alarm.

I knew you'd be up.
Guess what I got?

-[Laughing] I can't imagine.

-Just what it takes
to start the day off right!

l make it in my room.

You know, it saves me having
to go out and get dressed up.

I guess I had to get dressed
to come over here, anyway.

-Oh,
it looks just like what I need.

-Well, then, two cups of coffee
coming up.

Say, uh, I guess you took it
wrong last night

about me coming to your door
and all, huh?

-I'm not a very sociable
person, ordinarily.

How can I resist
inducement like this?

-What?
Come on.

I don't know
all those big words.

I'm just an ordinary guy
who works in a warehouse.

That's all.

I make pretty good money,
though.

Hey, look. I got a couple of
shots left over from last night.

You want a little bit in yours?

-No, thanks.

It's not the recommended
breakfast for a church organist.

-Oh, is that what you do?

You mean they pay somebody
to play the organ in church?

-Some churches do.

-Hey, I hope you don't mind
about this.

I just didn't know
you were a church woman.

-To me, a church is
just a place of business.

-Well, that's a funny way
to look at it.

-Why?
People seem shocked

because I took a job
in a church,

and I regard it simply as a job.

I'm a professional organist,
and I play for pay.

That's all.

-Thinking like that,
don't that give you nightmares?

-Strange you should say that.

As a matter of fact,

not for that reason,
mind you, but I...

I had the strangest feeling
last night.

-Yeah. I had kind of
a lost night myself.

-That's funny.

World is so different
in the daylight.

But in the dark,

your fantasies get so out
of hand.

But in the daylight, everything
falls back into place again.

Let's have no more nights.

-Or let's make them
more interesting, huh?

Say, uh, how'd
you get to be a church organist?

-I studied it in college.

-I could have gone to college.

Yeah, I used to play
pretty good football.

But they wanted me to take a lot
of classes and things, you know?

-Well, they're that way.

-Well, I'm just as smart
as the next guy.

Yeah, but I just didn't dig what
they were teaching in school,

you know?
And the thing I hated most was

principal products.

-Principal products?
-Yeah, you know.

You know, like, uh,

the principal products
of Brazil are...

oh, gee.

Coffee beans, snake oil,
you know, like that?

Yeah.

When I was in school,
I couldn't care less.

The only thing I cared about
was girls.

-Didn't they offer
a course in that?

-If they would have done that,
I would have graduated.

[Pours alcohol]

-What's the matter?
Can you still taste the coffee?

-Come on. What do you think?
I'm an alcoholic?

Look, I just like to start
the day off in a good mood.

That's all.

-You must be hilarious
by noon.

-Look, I'm just a kind of
a guy employers want.

You know, the happy worker.
Come on, come on.

Didn't I make your morning
happier?

-This morning,
you're exactly what I needed.

-You're going to need me
in the evening, too.

You just don't know it yet.

-I'll rinse off these cups.

-Oh, no, no, no.

Just spoils the flavor
for tomorrow.

-Well, thank you for the coffee.

It was unsanitary
but delicious.

-Well, uh,

should have put some
of the germ killer inside.

Well, I, uh,
hate to leave so early.

-Think you can
get through the door?

-You know, you got
the wrong impression of me.

-Well, I meant

because you had
so many things to carry.

-Ah.
Like I said, I hate to leave.

-Well, it's been a pleasure,
Mr. Linden,

but I'm sure you
have to get to work.

-Don't you?

-No, I have
the whole day free for shopping.

♪

[Dinging]

Does the hem hang right in back?

-We might change
the hemline a little.

The drape is just fine.
Otherwise, it looks very nice.

-I'm sure it isn't very chic
to take the second dress,

but I like it.

-We alter it a little hair
to make it straight

all the way around.

There, do you want to go back
to your dressing room?

[Dinging]

[Dinging]

[Dinging continues]

[Suspenseful music plays]

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

-I like it fine.

I believe I'll have you deliver
the dress, if you don't mind.

I did say I'd take it.

♪

♪

What's the matter with her?

♪

What's the matter with everyone?

♪

Why don't they answer me?

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

[Bird chirping]

[Chirping continues]

[Chirping continues]

[Gasps]

Ugh!
-What is it?

-That man!

-I didn't mean any harm.
I just stopped to get a drink.

-No!

No!

It was that man.

That man!

There was someone else there!

That strange man was there!

-Now look.
Look. You've had a fright.

-Hysteria won't solve anything.
Now control yourself.

Look. I'm Dr. Samuels.

My office is right
across the street there.

You've had a shock.

If you would like my assistance,
I'll be glad to offer it.

-Thank you.
Could I come with you now?

-Certainly.
I'll take her over to my office.

We'll see that she's all right.

[Birds chirping]

[Static crackles]

-So, when Mary is seen
trying on that dress

in the department store,
that's a real department store.

And that's the real employee

in the women's
department of that store

because one way Herk Harvey
was saving money is to say,

"Okay, this scene
we're about to shoot,

we're going to grab it
on the fly."

So, he would take the crew
into a department store

and say to the saleslady,

"Would you help her try on
the dress for $25?"

and press the money
into her hand.

And then he would say,

"Can we have 30 minutes
in the changing room?"

and another $25 for that deal.

And all six crew members
would go into the changing room

to get that moment

when she goes into
some kind of alternate dimension

and suddenly can't be seen
or heard by anyone else.

Then he would say, "All right,
she's going to walk up to you.

Act like she's not there.
Here's ten bucks.

She's going to try
to get into your cab.

Act like you don't see her.
Drive away.

Here's ten bucks."

The bus driver got 20 bucks
for almost hitting her.

The first time she didn't
get close enough to the bus.

So, Harvey had to ask
the guy to back up

and do it again
with a bus full of passengers.

[Laughter]

And next time she got
really close to the bus.

He almost grazed her.

And then he stopped and asked
Harvey,

"Hey, you need another take?"

which is the kind of
local cooperation

you could only get in Lawrence,
Kansas.

Meanwhile, that's
Stan Levitt as Dr. Samuels,

another veteran character actor
from Kansas City.

He had a role in
"In Cold Blood."

He's going to give
us some more mansplaining.

You can see
how this is sometimes studied

as a feminist movie.

I don't think the creators of it
thought of it that way

because they didn't
want to empower Mary.

They wanted her
to be trapped by circumstance.

I think they were showing,
though,

how much bad advice is
likely to be given

to pretty girls in trouble.
I read one academic article

that said the whole movie is
about society blocking Mary

from lesbianism,

which would be
her natural choice

if it weren't for all
these men getting in the way.

I'm going to quote --
-I like that theory.

-Huh? Really?
-Yeah.

-I'm going to quote
what this professor said.

"John Linden" -- John Linden is
the character hitting on her.

"John Linden is the warden
of compulsory heterosexuality."

That's a heavy burden
for Sidney Berger,

the enthusiastic grad student
who supervised her audition.

He was probably thinking, "This
girl could easily go lesbian

if I don't overwhelm her
with my masculine chutzpah."

So, anyway,

Sidney Berger grew up poor on
the Lower East Side of New York,

and the first six years
of his life he spoke nothing

but Yiddish thanks
to his Polish immigrant parents.

So, he knew all about
masculine chutzpah.

At any rate, Herk Harvey kept
passing out those $20 bills,

and he just had $17,000
to begin with.

So, after a while,
they were shooting 18-hour days.

And that doesn't include
the days

they were driving
from Lawrence to Salt Lake

and from Salt Lake to Lawrence.

That's 1,100 miles,
and you're crossing the Rockies.

But Herk wanted to shoot
the movie in sequence.

He thought it was important
for Candace's understanding

of the part, and so they
had to return to the Kaw River

and put the car back
in the river

at the very end of the shoot.
And, by the way,

here's how brilliant Herk Harvey
was as an indie filmmaker.

That bridge where
the car went into the water?

That bridge connects Lecompton,
Kansas, to Perry, Kansas,

two little towns
just west of Lawrence.

And so the maintenance of it

is shared by Douglas County
and Jefferson County.

So, Herk Harvey goes
to Douglas County

and says, "Hey, is it okay
if we take part of the bridge

off so we can stage a stunt?"

And the answer is, "Well, you
need to ask Jefferson County."

So, he goes to Jefferson County

and says, "Douglas County is
okay with it.

How about you?"

So, he made both counties
believe

the other county had
approved it.

And so they were allowed
to run that car off the bridge,

but only if they paid for
any repairs to the bridge.

A month later,

Harvey got the bill for patching
the side railing on the bridge.

$12.
[Laughter]

One decision
that Harvey later regretted

was to not shoot breast nudity
in the changing room

and in the bathtub scene.
-Yep.

-The distributor asked
for nude shots

long after Candace Hilligoss was
back in New York,

and it affected
how the movie got marketed.

Okay, let's get back to it.
Roll the film.

And what do you think, Darcy?

Should they have freed
the nipple in the bathtub scene

and the changing-room scene?
-Oh, let me think.

In the bathtub scene
definitely,

because she's struggling
to cover up

before she lets the guy in.

-Okay,
But not the changing-room scene?

-I mean, nice, but it's
not necessary to the plot.

-All right.

I think those breasts were
necessary to the plot, Darcy.

And it's a weaker work of art

when you have
anemic garbanzo exposure.

-Okay.
That's not what I said.

I said they weren't
necessary to the plot,

but should they have put
them in there, anyway?

Definitely. Always.
-Okay.

-You had me worried there
for a minute.

-Breasts improve everything.

-When did you become me?
[Laughter]

-Well, let's not go that far.
[Laughter continues]

[Static crackles]

-It was more than just
not being able to hear anything

or make contact with anyone.

It was as though...

as though for a time
I didn't exist...

as though I had no place
in the world,

no part of the life around me.

-And then you saw this...
this man?

-Yes.

-You'll excuse my back,

but I wanted to get some
of that written down.

-I must have been talking
for an hour.

-Anything else?
Anything you haven't told me?

-That's all there is.
That's the whole story.

He's been following me.
That's all there is to it.

-It isn't that simple,
though, is it?

-What do you mean?

-He could hardly have been
in the park this afternoon,

or one of us men
would have seen him.

And that night in the hallway,

you said yourself the
landlady came up a minute later,

and she didn't see him, did she?

-What are you driving at?

-It's been less than a week
since you were in a car

that crashed into the river.

How you got out of that,
no one seems to know.

But that experience must have
been a serious emotional shock.

-You think I imagined all
of it, don't you?

You think I'm insane?

-I didn't say that.
I don't mean that.

-I'm a competent person.
If anything, I'm a realist.

I'm not given
to imagining anything.

-Hogwash!
All of us imagine things.

Have you ever heard
two men talking behind your back

and imagined they were talking
about you?

-[Sighs] I --

-Have you never imagined
you saw someone you knew

and walked up to them and found
they were a perfect stranger?

-I don't see what
this has to do with it.

-The point is this.

Our imaginations play tricks
on us.

They often misinterpret
what we see and hear.

Do you agree?

-I suppose so.

-If that can happen
in ordinary times,

go a step further.

Look what can happen
in a high fever

or following a serious
emotional shock.

-It doesn't seem possible that
I could have imagined all of it.

-Does this man,

this figure, resemble anyone
you've ever known?

An acquaintance or your father?
-No!

-Do you have a boyfriend here
or a back home?

-No, and I have no desire
for one.

-Never?
-No.

I'm surprised
to find myself saying that.

But it's true.

I have no desire for the
close company of other people.

-Have you always felt
this way?

-I-I don't know.

-Don't you want to join in
the things that other people do?

Share the experiences
of other people?

-I don't seem capable
of being very close to people.

I do feel that perhaps
I am trying to reach out

for those other things.

Do you feel guilty wanting them?

-I don't understand you.
-I'm not a psychiatrist,

and perhaps I'm being
clumsy at all this,

but I am suggesting

that perhaps this figure
represents a guilt feeling.

-Oh, that's ridiculous!

-Maybe. Frankly, I don't know.

-Well, I know one thing.

My imagination is playing tricks
on me.

I'm going to put a stop to it.

-You're a very strong-willed
person, aren't you?

-I survive,
if that's what you mean.

-That old pavilion
out by the lake,

somehow you associate it
with all this, don't you?

-I could go out there.
I could put an end to that, too.

I could go out there.
-Now, don't be hasty.

-If it is all my imagination,
I could put a stop to it.

-Maybe, but at least someone
should be with you.

Now I can't possibly --

-As you say, doctor,
I'm a person of strong will.

And the time
to go out there is now.

And if I have to,
I can go alone.

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

[Carnival music plays]

♪

♪

♪

[Clanging]

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

[Rattling]

[Rustling]

[Suspenseful music plays]

♪

♪

[Rustling continues]

♪

♪

♪

♪

-Say, uh, I don't want to
get turned down again.

I was thinking
of asking you out to dinner.

-I stopped for a bite
to eat on the way in.

Anyway, I have to practice
at the church this evening.

-Look, uh...

how's about
if I pick you up afterward?

We'll go someplace and dance
or something?

-I'm sorry.
I'm not much for dancing.

-Uh, hey, uh,

you mind
if I ask you a question?

-I won't know until I hear it.

-What, are you afraid of men?

-No, I'm not afraid of men.

-Well...
well, you seem sort of cold.

This morning
when I brought you the coffee,

friendly.

-This morning
I needed company.

-Well, maybe you'll
need company tonight.

It's better
than walking home alone.

-Yes, it is.

I should be finished
around 9:00.

Will that be all right?

-That's okay by me!

Say, uh,
I'll see you in church, huh?

[Organ plays]

♪

♪

♪

[Music stops]

[Music resumes]

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

[Carnival music plays]

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

[Playing discordantly]

♪

♪

♪

-Profane! Sacrilege!

What are you playing
in this church?!

Have you no respect?
Do you feel no reverence?

And I feel sorry for you
and your lack of soul.

This organ,
the music of this church,

these things have meaning
and significance to us.

I assume they did to you.

But without this awareness,

I'm afraid you cannot be
our organist.

In conscience,
I must ask you to resign.

That does not mean
that I am abandoning you.

Nor should you turn
your back on the church.

There is help here,
and I urge you to accept it.

[Static crackles]

-You know, there's a choice
that Herk Harvey makes

when she goes to the church
to practice the organ.

He wants to show that the visit
to the amusement pavilion

has somehow changed her.

And so he has her play
the organ barefoot.

Why? That has no particular
logical meaning,

but that image of her bare feet

moving across the pedals
of the pipe organ

at some subconscious
level matters.

It's sexual,

but it's not sexual
in the way that John Linden,

the persistent neighbor,
wants her to be sexual.

It's freedom.

It's breaking away
from this world

with all its rules
and expectations.

And once again, she's told by
Dr. Samuels and the minister

that she's "A," doesn't have
normal desires

and "B," doesn't have a soul.

And she's starting to realize
that herself.

Now, that sequence

where she wanders through the
amusement park? That is amazing.

You have that overhead shot

that makes her seem tiny
among the immensity of it.

And then you have all
those small things

that could be explained by the
wind or the rickety structure,

like the barrels clinking
together

and the mattress coming down
the giant slide.

What you can't explain is
Herk Harvey as the ghoul,

staring straight up from beneath
the surface of the water.

And then all those images
are repeated

as she plays the devil music
with her bare feet.

And the minister
can't take it anymore,

and he puts a stop to it.

The one place in the whole movie
that I think is a mistake is

when they use fast motion
on those zombie dancers.

It seems jarring
when it's placed with the images

before and after it.

And that choice might
have been for the simple reason

that Harvey was running out
of film stock

near the end of their time
in Utah.

Harvey did have a permit
to shoot in the pavilion,

by the way.

The abandoned business
had become the property

of the Salt Lake City Chamber
of Commerce,

and so Harvey asked if they
would mind if his cast and crew

spent two days there.

And for people who had lived
in Salt Lake all their lives,

that seemed
like a strange request.

The amusement park did
not seem fantastical

or picturesque to them.

It seemed like
an eyesore junkyard,

a big,
nasty smudge on the landscape.

So, they readily agreed
to Harvey's use of the property,

and they asked if he would
perhaps pay for the cleanup

that might be necessary.

And Harvey said, "Fine."
And he asked how much.

And they said,
"Would $50 be too much?"

Anyway,
the name of the amusement park,

health spa, dance hall,
resort, swimming pier,

community center was Saltair.

And it was built by the Mormons
in 1893.

And the Mormon leadership had
two reasons for creating it.

First, they needed a place

that Mormon families could
vacation because it was a time

when healing-water
resorts had popped

up all around
the Great Salt Lake,

but most of them were low-class,

rowdy, full of hard-drinking
people who liked to brawl

because this was, after all,
the Wild West.

Utah was in the Wild West.

So, the Mormons wanted
their own resort for people

who wanted to swim and picnic

but didn't necessarily
want to get drunk and tussle.

Since Salt Lake was
kind of a backwater,

the second goal
of the Mormon leadership

was to show the nation that
Salt Lake was not a backwater.

So, they wanted it to be big
and splashy

and the Coney Island
of the West.

And it was well-known that unwed
couples could vacation there.

The Mormons had weird beliefs
about many things,

but they never had
any problem with sex.

And so they sank 2,000 pylons
into the Great Salt Lake.

They advertised the healing
properties of the waters

and the fact that the salt
content was so high it was

impossible to sink.

They built a giant Moorish
structure on the south shore

of the lake that contained
bowling alleys, a Ferris wheel,

and the giant racer touted

as the tallest roller coaster
in the world.

And they also built
the Saltair Railway,

which would bring people
the 16 miles

from Salt Lake City proper
to the resort.

Saltair was instantly popular

and remained so right up
until 1906,

when the church sold it
to a group of businessmen,

but they retained title
to the land.

Now, this would become
the Mormon model for Las Vegas,

where most of the land
in Las Vegas is Mormon-owned,

but the hotels are
not Mormon-owned.

Unfortunately, most of the Great
Salt Lake is salt, not water.

And so the coastline kept
receding over the years,

and that moved the resort
farther

and farther away from
where swimming was possible.

And in 1925
there was a huge fire.

And then after it was rebuilt
and started to come back,

a second fire devastated
the business in 1931,

just as America
was entering the Depression.

Now it had a reputation
as the cursed resort,

but its optimistic owners
completely rebuilt it

once again,
and it started to prosper,

mainly because of its rides.

The biggest ride was
the giant racer.

But in 1957, a windstorm,
75-mile-an-hour winds

knocked down the giant racer,
and without its main attraction,

Saltair had to close
its doors in 1958.

So, by the time Herk Harvey
drove past it in 1961,

it was a crumbling ruin
connected to the highway

by a rutted dirt road that had
"keep out" signs posted.

And, of course, Herk Harvey
decided not to keep out.

His first impression of it,
he told John Clifford,

was that it had been transported

into a different time
and dimension.

And so we hear Mary saying
to the doctor,

"it was as though I ceased
to exist.

I had no place in the world."

Or, according
to John Clifford's script,

she had only one place in
the world, the pavilion itself,

and one person waiting for her
there, Herk Harvey as the ghoul.

Apparently he needed
a dance partner.

So, back to the movie.

You know, anytime you try
to build something in any

of those southwestern states --
Arizona, Utah,

that part of California
that's in the Mojave Desert --

nature is whispering to you,
"Go away. Do not do this.

Do not live here.
Humans are not welcome here."

Because every time

they put up a new strip
shopping center in Phoenix,

I'm thinking, "Okay,

how long before the desert takes
that thing back?

How long before
the cactus starts growing up

through the floor
of the sporting-goods store,

and you have rattlesnakes
in the 7-Eleven?"

And then you'll see
some dude in Grand Junction

or somewhere trying
to grow Kentucky bluegrass

in his front yard.

He's standing out there
with a hose,

depleting the Colorado River,
mumbling to himself,

"Fuck the Hoover Dam. I don't
care. I want this bluegrass."

So, meanwhile,

you get skin cancer
on your way to Whataburger.

You know, you can literally see
buildings crumbling

into dust out there.

And, Darcy,
you are such a health nut.

And yet you spend all this time
in Las Vegas and Phoenix.

-Yes, but I don't go out
in the daytime very much.

-You only go there at night?

-If I can help it, yes.

-Because the sun
will turn your skin

into a crispy-bacon potato chip?

-Absolutely. Yes.

-You hate the sun so much,

I would expect you
to live in northern Alaska

in the winter months

and Antarctica
in the summer months.

-I really wish
I could do that, honestly.

-Because you are a fanatic
about skincare.

-I just truly hate the sun.
It's awful.

-And the sun hated Saltair.

And on a day in 1970,

God sent one last blast of heat
and burned Saltair to a crisp.

-Burned the ruins?

-I think there may be
still a few ruins there,

but mostly it's gone.

I think it was actually arson
that finished it off.

Them dang teenagers probably
finished it off.

-Meddling kids.

-So, you probably can't use
Saltair in the documentary.

-All right,
we'll see about that.

-You'd have to walk.
If you hate the sun...

You would have to walk a mile
and a half

across the salt flat
in the daytime

to get any footage there.

-You know what?
Worth it.

I'll take it for the team
this time.

-Wow.
I am proud of you, Darcy.

-Thank you.
-You're a filmmaker.

[Laughter]

[Insects chirping]

-Well, hi, there.

I've been waiting
an awful long time for you.

My car's just over there.
I know just the right place.

[Upbeat pop music plays]

♪

♪

[Music stops]

What's the matter?
Don't you drink, either?

-Not really.

-Not really?

How else is there
if you don't drink, really?

Answer me that, hmm?
Now, me?

I not only drink really.
I really drink.

What's the matter?

Don't you like the music,
either?

-I like it fine.
-You don't like it.

You don't like to dance,
and you don't like to drink.

And you don't like
for a man to hold you close.

That's it, isn't it?

-I didn't say that.

-You haven't said
anything all evening.

[Sighs]

I'm gonna go play that song
again, you like it so much.

-Hey, Johnny.
Who's the doll?

-Nobody you know, "Chicken."

-Oh, come on now.
You've been holding out on me.

That's not the kind of pig
you usually drag around.

-Now you quit licking
your chops.

She's out of your class.

-You want to bet?

-Lay off, huh?

I got something
on the stove there, man.

-Well, listen.
I'll help you put it over.

I don't want her to think
I even know creeps like you.

-Good luck!

-Meet someone you know?

-Yeah.
He's a college fella.

He, uh, told me
about this girl

that's been wanting to meet me.

♪

Wanted me to meet her.
-What'd you tell him?

-I said, "How could I?"
You're my date, you know?

Said you, uh, didn't seem
to enjoy my company much.

-Oh, that's not true.

I really appreciate
your taking me out this evening.

I'd have had a miserable night
if you hadn't.

-Huh? Forget it.

Come on. Here.
Join the party. Drink up.

I paid good money
for that stuff.

It ain't poison.

-I'm sorry if I annoy you.

-You know, I don't get you.
First, you stand me off.

That's okay. That's class.

Figure you got something.
You're just holding back.

Now everything I say is okay.
You're a mouse.

-Yesterday, I didn't care.

Tonight I want to be with you.

-Me or just with anybody?

-With you.

♪

-Why don't you thaw out, hmm?

But maybe you want to be alone,
huh?

I'll leave you alone
if that's what you want.

-No, I don't. I --

I like being with you.
Really, I do.

I don't want to be
alone tonight.

I want to be near you.

♪

-Do you mean that?

-Yes.

♪

-Why don't you and me
get out of here, hmm?

You know, my room's only
a couple of feet from yours.

Ain't likely to get very far
from me, are you?

♪

♪

[Laughs] Oh, gee!
-Shh!

We'll wake Mrs. Thomas.

-Aah, that old girl is
in the back at the house.

She won't hear nothing.
Oh!

Honey...

you don't want to go in there
all by yourself, do you?

It's dark and it's lonely
in there.

You don't have to be
alone tonight.

Just let me come in a while.

Let me stay with you, huh?

Look. You don't want to be
alone, do you?

-No.

I'm sorry.
-Look, look, honey.

Honey, you ask me in.
You must like me a little, huh?

-[Screams]

[Hyperventilating]

-Hey,
what's the matter with you?

What's going on around here?

What's the matter with you?!

-That man is after me.

You gotta stop him!
He's after me again.

-I'm getting out of here.
-No, you don't have to go!

-Not me, sister.
That's just what I need!

Get mixed up with
some girl who's off her rocker!

-I don't wanna be left alone!

[Door opens, slams]

[Crying]

♪

♪

♪

♪

[Static crackles]

-You know,

I would like to defend
the performance of Sidney Berger

as John Linden,

the guy who spends
the whole movie hitting on Mary.

For some reason, the critics
hate that performance.

Roger Ebert called him nothing
more than a nerd in lust,

and it kind of hurt
his feelings.

He was a drama teacher
at the University of Kansas,

one of the graduate
teaching assistants

in the theater department who
worked a lot for Herk Harvey.

And as I pointed out before,

Harvey had trusted him
to do the casting of the lead

in New York City.

He's the one
who picked Candace Hilligoss

to play Mary after
three solid days of auditions,

but most of Sidney Berger's
subsequent career

would be in Houston,
where he became a legend.

He was hired
to beef up the drama department

at the University of Houston
in 1969,

and when he got there, they had
3 teachers and 30 students.

When he retired
38 years later, in 2007,

he had developed it into a major
drama school with 300 students

and 15 faculty,
including Edward Albee,

Lanford Wilson, Ntozake Shange,
Mark Medoff.

Do you guys know
these names?

These are world-class
playwrights checking in

at the University of Houston
to work with Sidney Berger,

who everyone referred to
as "Doc."

He was also
the longtime artistic director

of the Houston
Shakespeare Festival.

He got the composer
of "Fiddler on the Roof"

and the composer of "Barnum"

to compose stuff for the Houston
Children's Theater Festival.

He specialized in Shakespearean
staging and textual research,

to the point
that he was on the board

of every international
Shakespeare organization,

including the one that rebuilt
the Globe Theatre in London,

and he personally trained

hundreds of actors
and directors --

Dennis Quaid, Randy Quaid,
lots of Broadway people.

Okay, so that was all later,
of course.

But was this visionary actor's
actor, director's director,

was he that bad in 1961?

So bad that he was described
as an amateur in the reviews?

I don't get it,
because, first of all,

he does come across
in this movie

as a small-town
Midwestern hustler,

even though he spoke Yiddish
the first six years of his life.

He was the son
of Polish immigrants.

He grew up poor on the Lower
East Side of New York City,

so his real life was about
as far away from that world

as is possible to be.

Secondly, he escalates

and de-escalates that
attempted seduction of Mary

according to her mood
and what she'll put up with.

Third, he's a believable drunk

and believably in denial
about it.

Most actors would overplay that.

Fourth, he manages
to put across the personality

of a college dropout full
of false bravado,

a self-important ladies' man
who's anything but a ladies' man

who's actually just a leering,
skirt-chasing loser.

So, we get a whole person
out of this performance,

and he only has one
real exposition scene, the one

where he talks about
his football scholarship.

So, I would say he
had studied that character well

and delivered him
with passion and commitment.

And there's also been a tendency
to minimize the writing

of John Clifford,

even though I think
his sensibility

and his experience

may be what makes
the simple script work so well.

John Clifford was one
of those guys

who came back from World War II
changed and damaged.

He was born in Springfield,
Illinois, in 1922.

He always had aspirations
to be a writer.

He moved to Chicago
during the golden age of radio

and became a successful
joke writer for radio stars.

But he sought bigger things,

and so he moved to Hollywood to
intensively study screenwriting,

and to support himself,
he sold songs.

He was a good songwriter,

and three of his songs
were recorded by Nina Simone.

But World War II
just broke his spirit.

He was drafted early.

He was assigned
to an Army hospital as a medic,

and it was one of those mobile
hospitals, like in "MASH."

So, he moved with the Army

through the bloodiest battles
of the Pacific,

and he saw things

that caused what
would be considered

post-traumatic stress
syndrome today.

But they had no name for it
in the '40s,

and they did not believe

that the general term
"shell-shocked" could be applied

to hospital personnel because
they were not in actual combat.

So, after five years

and two months
of dealing with the casualties

of the worst battles,
including New Guinea and Manila,

he went back to Hollywood.

But he was unable to work.

He would have moments

where he would just bust
out crying for no reason.

He had other times
when he felt totally dissociated

from the world, and doctors
tried to help him,

but they didn't understand
how he could have these symptoms

because he was not in combat.

But they were actually the
same symptoms suffered by medics

in the First World War.

And some of those medics became
the founders of surrealism,

both in literature and in art.

Eventually, he left Hollywood
for financial reasons,

and he moved to his wife's
hometown of Emporia, Kansas,

and in the course
of looking for work there,

he discovered Herk Harvey.
and Herk Harvey discovered him,

and they worked together
for decades at Centron.

Herk Harvey had his
own World War II stories.

He had served on a Navy ship

that had classified
missions in the Pacific.

The entire war history of Herk
Harvey's ship is top secret,

and his top-secret
security clearance is one reason

that Centron was
able to land Pentagon contracts.

Centron built
a military studio separate

from their civilian studio

so that it can be approved
as a SCIF.

A SCIF is a sensitive,
compartmented

Information facility.

A SCIF has to be cleared
for discussion

of classified material.

They regularly search it
for listening devices,

and they soundproof it.

And I don't know
what kind of military films

they were making at Centron,
but Herk Harvey did.

My only point
in dwelling on this

is what is Mary suffering from,

if not PTSD, dissociation
from the world around you?

Doctors misdiagnosed it,

just as Dr. Samuels
misdiagnoses it in the movie,

as a lack of sensory awareness
brought on by trauma,

but it's actually the opposite.

It's all the senses functioning
with painful efficiency

to the point
where you can't stand living.

So, he was
the perfect screenwriter

for "Carnival of Souls."

Okay, before we get to
the conclusion of the movie,

I just want to say
I hope I've exploded a few

of the myths surrounding
"Carnival of Souls."

It was not made by amateurs.

It was not a fluke.

The mood, the atmosphere,

the undercurrents of surrealism
were all baked into the script,

the direction, the acting.

And the main reason
it survives today

is that all that came through,

even when experienced
through crappy

late-night television versions
that played throughout the '60s,

'70s, and '80s,

long after the movie had failed
at the box office

and been forgotten
by everyone in the film world.

It was brought back to life

because of all those
late-night screenings

built up a fan base so loyal

that people would actually phone
their local TV station

to find out when was the
next time the movie would be on.

It survived
because it was made well by pros

who happened
to work in Lawrence, Kansas.

Okay. Back to the flick.

-That was really good.

-They say you can have
trauma by living in a situation

where you're always expecting
trauma,

even if the trauma
never happens.

Like being in a jail cell

and told you're going to
be executed, you know?

You're not executed,
but you think you will be.

-I could see that for sure.

-So, they say
this thing happens in war,

where it was first noticed in
trench warfare in World War I.

You're in this hole
in the ground

where you can't ever know
what's happening around you.

You can't ever know when
you're going to be attacked.

And then when you are attacked,
there's nobody to shoot back at.

So, if you're in the war,
and death

is occurring all around you,

but there's nothing
you can do to defend yourself,

and there's nothing
you can do to attack the enemy,

you just go crazy.

-I can see that, too.

-So, isn't that all warfare now?

Isn't that everywhere?

-Maybe. Yeah.

-Aren't all these guys
going crazy?

I mean, you have drones
and you have rockets

that are launched
from 800 miles away,

and you have satellites and
you have heat-seeking missiles,

and you don't know
when or where or how

any of that stuff is coming in.

And if you're firing that stuff,

you don't know when or where or
how or if they hit the target.

I mean, that's war now.

I was a guest on one
of those ships

that had been in the Gulf War,

a ship that fires
the Tomahawk missiles,

and they told me they were
so far away from the battlefield

that they didn't
even need to wear battle gear.

They could have just sat
out on the deck

in beach sandals
and Hawaiian shirts.

And it took a couple of hours
for their missiles

to make their way to Baghdad
and hit a target.

And I said,

"So how do you know whether
you hit the target or not?"

And they said, "We turn on CNN."
[Laughter]

I'm not kidding.

-That's kind of awesome,
though.

-Well, yeah, it's kind of
awesome on our side.

But the dude on the other end
of that is going,

"What supernatural event
just occurred here?" you know?

-Is that
why you like this movie so much?

-I like the movie
because it is surreal.

And you can watch it over
and over

and you start to realize

that every single moment pays
off the ending of the story.

In fact,

the version we're watching
is the 74-minute version

that was shown in drive-ins
and on TV.

There's an 83-minute version
that was shown at the premiere,

but even this version
pays off the ending.

-So, why are we showing
the short one then?

-Oh, that's a good question.
I'm not sure.

-Okay.
-But I don't think it's

because they took out scenes
of John Linden

finally getting lucky and having
sex with Mary in her room.

-Probably not.

-Although I could see
writing it in a way

that that's exactly what
she would want to do right now.

-Really?
-Yeah.

Because when you panic
and you're in danger

and you think you might die,
you have sex.

-You know this, do you?
-Yeah.

-Mm.
And how do you know this?

-Get me drunk,
and I'll tell you.

[Laughter]

-Oh, you are on, sir.

[Laughter continues]

♪

♪

♪

-Decided to leave, did you?
Where are you going?

I can't refund none
of your week's rent

when you go off like that.

[Engine starts]

[Car squeaking]

[Suspenseful music plays]

♪

[Squeaking continues]

♪

♪

[Brakes squeal]

-Sounds like the transmission.
Can you pull it up on the rack?

[Squeaking continues]

-Okay, fine.

-Will it take long?
-Well, I have to check it first.

Would you like to get out?

-May I just sit here?

-Sure.
Suit yourself.

[Lift motor humming]

[Pump dings]

[Ding]

[Creaking]

[Suspenseful music plays]

[Footsteps approaching]

♪

♪

[Hissing]

♪

[Footsteps approaching]

♪

♪

-Aah!

♪

[Indistinct conversations]

[Conversations stop]

♪

-When is the next eastbound bus?

When does the next bus leave?
I must get on.

♪

♪

I want to get out of here!

I want to get away from here!

♪

♪

-[Ominously] Eastbound bus
now loading, gate nine.

♪

♪

♪

♪

[All laughing menacingly]

♪

[Laughter continues]

♪

♪

[Footsteps approaching]

♪

Don't close it -- wait!
Wait, wait!

Let me in!
You gotta let me in!

I gotta get on that train.
I got to get away from here.

Please? Ple-e-ase?!

♪

You hear me? You can hear me.

♪

♪

[Thinking]
Why can't I hear anything?

♪

Will you help me?
I need your help.

♪

J-just a moment, please.

♪

♪

Why can't anybody hear me?!

♪

♪

♪

♪

[Bird chirping]

[Chirping]

[Chirping continues]

-I came to you, Doctor,
because you're my, my last hope.

I-if you don't help me out,
I'll have to go back there.

He's...

he's trying
to take me back somewhere.

Doctor, you've got to tell
me what to do.

Aaahhhh!

[Engine starts]

♪

♪

♪

[Wind howls]

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

[Howling continues]

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

Aaahhhh!

♪

[Man laughs]

[All laughing menacingly]

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

[All laughing]

♪

Aaaahhhhh!

[Wind howls]

-The car's still over there.

And then the footprints
are leading up to here.

[Howling continues]

♪

And then nothing.

♪

[Howling continues]

♪

♪

-Okay, Walt! Take her in.
It's right down there.

Wind it on up!

♪

[Boat motor humming]

♪

♪

♪

[Static crackles]

♪

-Okay, that's enough
organ music for right now.

[Music stops]

Did you notice that
Candace Hilligoss is trembling

when they pull the car
out of the water?

She's trying to be dead,
but she can't quite do it.

She was in and out of that river
for eight hours

on the final day of shooting,

and they didn't get back
to Kansas till early October,

so it was cold enough to freeze
the balls off a pool table.

The first time she stepped
into the water, she screamed.

It was just unbearable.

She told Herk Harvey
she could not do it.

He needed to use a double
or a dummy

or something, and he said no,

if she didn't get into
the water, he had no movie.

It had to be her.
So she tried a second time.

She lasted about five seconds
before she screamed

for them to get her
out of there.

And this went on for so long

that finally Herk Harvey
physically threw her

into the river.
-Oh, my God!

-And that was witnessed
by a police officer.

And as soon
as Harvey threw his lead actress

into the river, the cop left.

And Harvey thinks he had to
either leave

or arrest Harvey
for what he had witnessed.

In other words,

Harvey committed felony assault
to get his film finished.

It took Candace a while
to forgive him.

However, he was correct.
He had to have that final shot.

if he hadn't been such a
stickler about shooting the film

in sequence,

they would have gotten
that shot on the same day

they shot the drag race,

but he wanted the last shot
of the production

to be the last shot
of the movie.

Two days earlier,

he had shot the scene that
he had dreamed of ever since

driving past
the Saltair Pavilion.

He used 40 students from the
Mormon School of Modern Dance

to create that ghoulish
ballroom scene.

But as beautiful as that was,

it was kind of spoiled
by the destruction of the reel

that preceded it.

He shot several minutes of the
ghouls rising up out of the lake

and supernaturally flitting
among the pylons,

but the lab overexposed that
film, and it became unusable.

Candace Hilligoss had no idea

whether the movie was any good
or not.

She was 26 years old.

She was considered
a minor rising starlet.

She had left her home in Huron,
South Dakota,

eight years earlier with $500
and three pairs of tap shoes,

and she had got
a stern warning from her father

that there would be
no more money from the family

for the pursuit
of an acting career.

So, she spent three years
at the University of Iowa.

She got accepted

into the prestigious
American Theatre wing,

which made it possible for her
to do the big jump to New York.

She did summer stock
in Pennsylvania.

She worked
at the Cape Cod Playhouse.

She made her living
by dancing at the Copacabana.

She toured with Nina Foch,

who she met while working
on the early television hit

"Naked City."

She got accepted
as a student by Lee Strasberg,

but she used that $2,000
from "Carnival of Souls"

to help her husband's career.

He quit his waiter job and right
away got a role on Broadway.

But after all that, when her
agent saw "Carnival of Souls,"

he dropped her as a client.

He said the movie embarrassed
him.

She would make one more movie,

"The Curse
of the Living Corpse,"

starring her friend
Roy Scheider,

who recommended her
for the role.

And that movie got
horrible reviews

and ended up
as the second feature

on a drive-in double bill
with "Horror of Party Beach."

And when she turned 30, she
retired from acting to be a mom.

"Carnival of Souls" premiered at
the Granada Theater in Lawrence,

Kansas, on September 26th, 1962,

and even though the theater was
full of friends and family

of the cast and crew,

it failed to strike a chord
with the audience.

They had a sort of
"I don't get it" response.

What did you think, Darcy,

the first time
you saw "Carnival of Souls"?

-I was really interested in it
because it's from the '60s,

so it's like a really different
look than we normally see.

But I thought it was fine.

-Fine? Just fine?
-Yeah.

I mean, it's really beautiful
and atmospheric,

and I love it for that,
but it's just not really scary.

-Well, no, I mean,
it's more of a sense of dread.

You don't think
Herk Harvey as the ghoul

who pops up everywhere
is scary?

-Okay, he got me once
or twice for sure.

-What would you do
if a director told you to jump

into that ice-cold water?

-Oh, I would jump
into the ice-cold water.

I've had to, like,

I've had to do worse than that
on cheaper movies than this.

-Really?
-Yeah.

-Well, Herk Harvey
lost control of his movie

at a pretty early stage.

The distributor cut
nine minutes out of the film

in order to fit it
into a double feature

with "The Devil's Messenger,"
an anthology film

that had Lon Chaney Jr.
as the top-billed actor,

and Herk Harvey left for
South America for two months.

He had to do seven industrial
films down there for Centron,

and when he returned, he saw the
film had been playing drive-ins,

mostly in the Deep South,

and so he asked the distributor
for his share of the money,

and they sent him a check
that bounced,

and he knew he was in trouble.

The distributor soon went out
of business.

The owners fled to Europe,

and before they left,
they gave a bunch of prints

to a broker

who illegally sold them
into television syndication.

So, all of Harvey's investors
lost all their money.

The deferred salaries
were never paid,

and the only investor who
did not mind was Pauline Pappas,

an elementary school teacher
who lost her thousand dollars

but married Herk Harvey,

and she was with him 27 years
until his death in 1996.

The movie has often
been compared

to the Ambrose Bierce
short story "An Occurrence

at Owl Creek Bridge."
I'm a huge Ambrose Bierce fan.

Think he was a genius,

but I think the resemblance
has been overstated.

I will not go into it right now,
but, you know,

one story is about
a hallucination at the point

of death, and the other story is
a battle against death,

a kind of fierce struggle
through purgatory.

And "Carnival of Souls"

is a much more emotionally
complex story.

The movie has also
been compared to the 1960

"Twilight Zone" episode "The
Hitchhiker" because of the way

the ghoul stalker keeps
appearing and reappearing.

But I think it's a stretch
to say

that John Clifford took anything
from Rod Serling, either.

On the other hand,

I do see a lot that
George Romero took

from "Carnival of Souls,"

including that primitive
white-zombie greasepaint

that Herk Harvey uses
on himself.

And correct me if I'm wrong,

but isn't David Lynch's
"Mulholland Drive" kind of

a reimagining
of "Carnival of Souls"?

There was a 1998 remake

that you do not need to waste
your time watching.

It has nothing
to do with the original.

It has Wes Craven's name on it,

but he apparently didn't do
anything

except consult
with the filmmakers about

how to capitalize
on the original title.

Centron Films continued
to be the largest operation

in the country when it came
to "mental-hygiene films"

with titles like "The Bully,"
which was about school violence,

"Innocent Party," which was
about venereal disease.

-Oh, my God!
-"What About Prejudice?"

which was about
racial tolerance.

They also produce most
of the recruiting films

for the Pentagon,

as well as military-training
films, commercials,

corporate-branding films,
nature films, how-to films.

They were kind of the YouTube
of their day.

The Centron Film sound stage was
the largest in the Midwest

and one of the largest stages
between New York

and Los Angeles.

And after winning hundreds
of awards using

about 3,000 actors
from Lawrence,

using every major
building in Lawrence --

it became one of
those companies that everybody

in Lawrence has worked for
at least once in their life --

Centron Films finally shut down
in the early '90s

after 44 years in business,

because the era
of 16-millimeter film was over.

In fact, the era of film
itself would soon be over,

and the huge Centron Films
production complex became

the University of Kansas
Film School.

And the largest sound stage
in the Midwest

became the Herk Harvey
Sound Stage.

When you enter today,
you pass a sign

that says, "You are entering
the Herk Harvey Sound Stage.

May all who enter here
find his spirit of excellence."

You know, what a life.

-Oh, my God.

Well, it must have been great
to be there during those years,

but hey, want to do a mailbag?

-Somehow, I knew you did.
-Let's do a mailbag.

This is actually
kind of a cheat.

It's an Instagram DM.

It's from Matthew Tomaszewski
of Warren, Michigan.

-I think that is Tomaszewski.
-Yes!

-"Thanks for playing
'The Autopsy of Jane Doe.'

Definitely a movie I would not
have chosen on my own."

Well, that's why we chose them,
Matthew.

"When we watch
'The Last Drive-In,"

we're having fun chatting
the whole time,

drinking beers,
having a blast.

With this movie,
we were dead silent.

It was so captivating,
it left us silent.

Thanks, Matthew,
from the Redrunn Skate Shop."

Matthew Tomaszewski, Redrunn
Skate Shop, Warren, Michigan.

Thanks for sending this,
Matthew.

I think what you're telling me

is that the TV is on at
the skate shop on Friday nights,

and I appreciate that.

I love it when people watch
the show in groups,

but I'm a little shocked

that so many people love
this movie so much.

I get comments about this
all the time,

and usually we get complaints

if we show anything
remotely experimental.

The whole movie takes place
basically in one room.

Stars a dead person.

But, yeah,
people were fascinated by it,

and they also sent kudos
to the writers.

We were breaking all kinds
of rules that night

because normally we
don't interview writers, either.

But Ian Goldberg and
Richard Naing were fascinating.

I know that all three
of our guests that night

are friends of yours.

The other guest was
producer Eric Garcia.

-Yeah. They were all really
excited to be here,

and they actually wanted to stay
longer than they did.

-I know. Well,

I would be very much in favor
of having writers on the show

more often,
and I guess that's it for me

for this edition
of "The Last Drive-In."

You can still get tickets
for Joe Bob's Jamboree

at the West Wind Las Vegas
Drive-In October 4th and 5th.

But right now, speaking
for myself

and for Darcy the Mail Girl,

I want to remind you
that sometimes life is harder

than walking through a balloon
shop with a porcupine purse.

But keep believing in yourself,

and you'll end up happier
than a possum in the corn crib

with the dog tied up.

-Wow,
that was a complicated one.

-Yeah, you can't write that
on a potholder, can you?

-You cannot.

-And the drive-in
will never die.

Why is an elephant big,
gray, and wrinkled?

-I don't know.

-Because if
he was small, white and round,

he'd be an aspirin.

[Laughter]

-What?
-Okay.

-Right?

-You were not the first person
to hate that joke.

I love that joke,
but you hate it.

-I'm just confused by it.
-Woman goes to the doctor.

The doctor tells her
she has six months to live.

The woman says, "Is there
anything I can do?"

The doctor says,
"Yes, there is.

You could marry
a software engineer."

And the woman says, "How could
that help my illness?"

And doctor says,
"It won't help your illness.

But the six months will seem
like an eternity."

[Laughter]

-Okay.

-All right.
I'm gonna do one more, okay?

-Go for it.
-I have one more chance?

-[Laughs] Yes.

-Moses, Jesus, and a bearded
old man...

Got it so far?
-Yep, sure.

-Moses, Jesus, and a bearded
old man are playing golf.

Moses hits a long drive.

It lands on the fairway,

but it rolls directly
toward the pond.

Moses raises his club,
parts the water.

The ball rolls through the pond
safely to the other side.

Jesus also hits a long drive
toward the same pond,

but just as it's about
to land in the water,

it hovers above the surface
of the water.

Jesus walks out onto the pond,
chips it onto the green.

The bearded man steps
up to the tee.

He hits a terrible slice.

It hits a fence,
bounces out onto the highway,

caroms off a diesel truck,

rockets up back
onto the fairway

but is headed directly
for that pond,

but it lands on a lily pad
instead

and it gets snatched
into the mouth of a frog.

An eagle swoops down, grabs
the frog, flies away, and then,

as an eagle passes
over the green,

the frog drops the ball

and it lands in the cup
for a hole in one.

Moses turns to Jesus and says,
"I hate playing with your dad."

[Laughter]

-Wow!

[Laughter continues]
Wow!

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

-Made in Georgia.